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 Topic Subject: Compare
and Contrast: Analyzing the TV Show and Book Series - Version 4.0
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| Posted 11-03-2001 06:01
PM by shapeshifter
With Melinda Metz (author of the Roswell High series on whose first book the TV show was based) now writing for the TV series, I think it is appropriate to reinstate this thread. I am now rereading the books and amazed at how many of the science fiction elements and relationship elements have entered the TV series, either through 'Freudian slips' on the parts of the script writers or through other coincidence (collective consciousness maybe? ). For instance, in Book 3, The Seeker, Maria has 'flashes' of the alien spaceship when she holds the alien Stone much like Liz's flashes when she and Max 'connect' in Sexual Healing. Also, Maria is almost killed by aliens who are alerted by her use of the Stone, much like the results of the use of the Orbs in Destiny (not to mention Liz's glowing hickies in SH). This thread has always been slow-moving, so maybe it will not fall off the boards now. Following is the bulk of Aphid's introduction from Part 2 See also: Part 1 Introduction for Newbies [by Aphid] A Short List of Topics Covered Character Comparisons Among Characters in Both Liz - Her last name and ethnicity are different, but her look is actually rather the same. In both she is saved by Max and but also saves Max's life later. Max - He looks very different, and tends to be more relaxed in books. Book Max doesn't have any desire or obligation to go back to his home planet, but TV Max is King and won't really have a choice (or so we presume). Micheal - Book Micheal is relaxed and has a more congenial relationship with Maria. Also, in the books Micheal is treated much better by his foster homes and has many more of them. Isabel - Uses men more in the books and has more of a desperate need to appear invulnerable. What she is scared of in the books is outside of her while on TV what scares her is within her (Vilandra). Maria - She is more nieve in the books as well as more bubbly and less smart-alecy. She also has a little brother in the books, but only a deliquent cousin on the show. In the books Maria's father is still in the picture on a part-time basis, but TV Maria has some serious abandonment issues. Alex - His last name is different (Whitman=Show, Manes=Books) and he also has a very different relationship with his father who is a very different person on TV than he is in the show. Kyle - He is less stable in the books, and on the TV show he is healed and becomes an ally. Valenti - On TV his character is a redeamable person who is not sadistic and has a much better relationship with Kyle. Character Comparisons Among Different Characters Cameron vs Courtney - Both were attracted to Micheal and led rather sad, mobile and lonely existances. Plus, the attraction Micheal had to them seemed to be more physical than emotional. In addition, both cause Micheal to have issues with Max, Isabel and Maria although Micheal's feelings toward Courtney are much less romantic than for Cameron. For differences, Courtney sacrifices herself for Micheal while Cameron betrays him and breaks his heart by running away. Nikolas/Isabel vs Kivar/Vilandra - Both cause Isabel/Vilandra to lose her cool and betray her brother and Micheal. Although obviously things go too far with Kivar. Tess/Adam - They both come between Max and Liz. Both are aliens who grew up learning to use their powers so they are stronger that the podsters, but also rather isolated from the group based on their lack of family and a need to become more human in order to fit in. Sean/Adam - Both are distractions for Liz while she can't have Max and both have been out of regular society for awhile (prison and the compound). However, Sean is a bit of a bad boy, human and very well-adjusted, while Adam was child-like and unsure about how to act normally. Ray or Nikolas vs Nascedo - Nescedo has Nikolas' attitude towards humans, whereas Ray has found that he really likes humans and would never kill one. But both have taken on a protector role for the podsters. They also share the isolation of being stranded on the planet during the time the podsters were incubating and the ability to shapeshift. Although Nescedo did share Nikolas' contempt for humans, he did fear some of them, unlike Nikolas. Ray vs Nascedo - Both provide the aliens with information about their homes, but are less than totally forthcoming. Both do not encourage the aliens to learn too much about themselves or their planet and both die before they can pass on all that they know (we assume). The parents - In the book the parents tend to notice that their children are missing more often than on the TV show. However in both places there are incidences of convenient parental abscences and interstate travel that goes unnoticed. Book Valenti vs Pierce - Both have sadistic tendancies that are enhanced and brought to the fore by the positions they hold. They also both head the organizations that are the human threat to the podsters. Mr. Manes vs. TV Valenti - Both followed the same story arc, they were enemies at first but both later became friends of the podsters. In addition this transformation was based on the fact that their real goal was protecting earth from hostile aliens and the podsters are not a threat. Clean Slate/Special Unit - Both are orgainizational human threats to the aliens that are regegade units with ties to (if not an official relationship with) the government. However each captures a different alien (Clean Slate/Micheal, Special Unit/Max) and treats them very differently. Nikolas/Nicholas - Both interested in Isabel romantically and had an instant connection with her (even though TV Isabel's connection was not one of a romantic nature). Both are aliens (though different races). Both very confident, have a skewed sense of right and wrong and an indifference towards humans. Nikolas/The Dupes - Both have the bad attitude and both seem to know more than the podsters. Although Nikolas was better at using his powers while the Dupes just knew more about their past. One major difference though, Nikolas has the Stone, but Dupes didn't have the Granolith. DuPris/The Bounty Hunters and Kivar/Nicholas - They seem to have a similar Master/Servant relationship and both seem to be evil and a threat. In addition, we see the bounty hunters and Nicholas before we see the head honcho (assuming that we eventually see Kivar). Laurie Dupree/Elsevan DuPris - While we had suspicisons about Laurie's motives before we finished out the HC, we still think the evil in her aunt and uncle is a good parallel, even though Laurie is not evil at all. Laurie Dupree/Trevor Guerin - Both filled a void in Micheal's life by providing him with some "real" family and actually got him to open up and admit that he has feelings. He, however, ended up being separated from them, although the circumstances of the separation are different between the books and the TV show. Wormhole Trip/Sweden Trip - Both produced makeovers on Alex, but Book Alex's trip was both less fun and a more drastic makeover. Also book Alex goes through a phaze of not paying attention to the podsquad. Not so with TV Alex. Granolith/Stones of Midnight - Both are alien artifacts with immense power and at least a certian amount of versitility. However, the podsters know how to use the Stone of Midnight, but can't figure out how to use the Granolith. Healing Stones/Crystals and The Balence Coma/Akino - In both cases we have an alien ailment that is cured by alien devices that help tap into the energy of other beings. But the aliments effect different podsters (Coma=Micheal, Akino=Max/Isabel). Gandarium/Collective Conciousness - The queen acts as the leader of a hive of alien entities which are connected and work together in a way similar to the collective conciousness. Both are a threat to the podsters. Gandarium Queen/Grant vs. DuPris as Puppetmaster - In a similar way their actions were controlled, but they were able to fight. Unfortunately Grant didn't have friends who could help him escape. Collective Conciousness/Book Max vs. Larek/Brody - The body is taken over by a supposedly good force in order to accomplish it's own objectives. After that is done, it is released (or so we assume they would have done to Max once he got back with the stone). Miscellaneous Comparisions In the books, the friendships seem to be closer because of the connection. The books seem to have a more "us against them" feel than the TV show. In addition, the podsters in the books seem to act like care-free teenagers more often and generally have to deal with less awful stuff. In addition, the podsters never killed anyone except DuPris in the books, while on the TV show they wiped out many Skins. On the TV show the aliens do not see auras. We are told that TPTB, wanted to do this, but later decided not to because they came to the conclusion that the auras would be too distracting. The aliens in the books are not hybrids and there are no changed humans with powers in the books. Presumably, the powers are not "advanced human powers" in the books as they are in the TV show. Perhaps this is the reason that on the TV show the powers are all different (they were engineered after all) but in the books the aliens all have the same powers. Both TV show and Books had a human threat (Speical Unit/Clean Slate) that when eliminated, was replaced by an alien threat (Elsevan DuPris/Skins). On both the TV show and the Books there is a rotating alien threat. In the books Elsevan DuPris is eliminated and replaced by the conciousness, while the TV show's Skins are dealt with and then Gandarium arrives as a threat. [ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 11-03-2001 11:01
PM by QueenAmidala01
hey whats up ............ ok.....well my memories of reading the books are a little rusty now, so ill have to read them again. but i really want a collective conciousness in the show......maybe that way max's father and mother can help quide him and even the original 4 can help him |
| Posted 11-04-2001 07:18
AM by Anla
shapeshifter - Great start to the thead! Thanks for letting me know this was being started up again. Just adding a few things from the last thread's version of the introduction: Tess vs. Adam - While both came between Max and Liz, in Tess's case it was more intentional than in Adam's. From the most recent things we've learned about Tess in Departure, she and Adam also had vastly different attitudes towards the entire group, humans and aliens. Ray vs. Nasedo - If we accept Tess's explanation to Max in Departure, Nasedo differed from Ray in that he betrayed Max and the others to Kivar. The parents - In the show, the parents are finally starting to become suspicious of their children's activities (although Amy and Valenti started to become more aware of things last season). Grant vs. Nikolas - In both cases, only Isabel liked him. Both died, and both represented a way to rebel against Max. However, Grant represented her human side to Isabel, while Nikolas represented her alien side and the freedom to enjoy it. Tess vs. Trevor - Both were the only one of the alien group to return to the home planet. Also, both seemed to betray the Pod Squad. Trevor went to DuPris's side, but eventually realized the error of his ways, and helped stop DuPris and rescue the others. Tess killed Alex and worked with Kivar. Only time will tell what happens with her next. Nikolas vs. TV Kyle - Both encouraged Isabel to use her powers to have a good time. However, Nikolas's contempt for humans led to all of them being in danger, while Kyle would be unlikely to do that. Politics - In both, the political situation on the home planet is not as simplistic as it first seems (Michael-worshippers, Trevor). Collective Consciousness/Memory Retrieval - Both were ways for Max to embrace his alien side, and both caused him to grow distant from Liz and his other friends. Collective Consciousness/Mommygram - Both were instances of the aliens on the home planet wanting to use Max and the other aliens to accomplish their purposes, without caring about the teens' feelings or wants. Name of the high school - In the TV show, the teens attend West Roswell High School, while in the books, they go to Ulysses F. Olsen High (which could be shorted to UFO High ). [ 11-04-2001: Message edited by: Anla ] |
| Posted 11-04-2001 07:53
AM by shapeshifter
Queen A, Thanks for stopping by. Be sure to take notes when you reread. Anla, Thanks for adding that stuff. I am SOOOoo glad you had it saved, because I didn't. ***shapeshifter obsessively makes note to self to save ASAP **** Here's a quickie I don't that we hit on before? : |
| Posted 11-04-2001 11:27
AM by Kathryn *A*
Oh wow, the thread is back. Yay! I'll have to go and read the books again. I've cultivating ( ) my pet theory about the similarities between Kyle and Nicholas (book). It's been bugging me for months. Anyway, yeah, yay! thread. :grin: |
| Posted 11-04-2001 12:09
PM by not of this earth
I loved the Roswell High books - I read them last summer. I thought that the difficulties between Liz and her father in this season are very reminiscent of the books. (Maybe it's Melinda Metz's influence on the writing.) In the books, Liz's father is very strict and over-protective because her sister died. In season 3, her dad is very strict and over-protective of Liz because of someone he loved who was killed. Also, I the whole spaceship thing made me think of the books. Too soon to tell if the new shapeshifter will have any similarities to Dupree, but for some reason he makes me think of him. Thanks for the thread Shapeshifter -great job! |
| Posted 11-04-2001 02:58
PM by shapeshifter
not of this earth, ITA on Liz's dad's characterization and the appearance of the spaceship this season seeming to behr the mark of Melinda Metz. I wonder if they are just feeling more free to use the ideas of the books now that she's signed on? Another thing: In the show, Season 1, second half, Isabel has a dream of herself with Michael (which I still wonder if it was planted by Tess) and then things she's pregnant which causes Maria to be jealous but not angry at Isabel. In the books, Isabel takes Liz & Maria dream walking because Maria wants to see if Michael feels about her the same way IMAGE: www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/Intro2_files/love.gif about her as she does about him. But they see Michael with his arms around Isabel in the dream (which later turns out to be a brotherly hug). This causes Isabel to wonder if she should be with Michael because of the alien connection (similar to the pregnant wondering in the show) and causes Maria to feel jealous of Isabel but also not angry. So, season 1 had a lot of stuff that was similar to the books after Book 1 even though they supposedly weren't using them. It's that nobody got uptight about it. [ 11-04-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 11-04-2001 05:17
PM by Anla
QueenAmidala - I've been slowly rereading the book series over the last several months (I'm on the ninth one now) and I'm enjoying them just as much the second time through. I really do love this series. I would love to see Max manage to get some information about the situation back home on the alien home planet (I guess we can call it Antar now, since Liz referred to it that way on the show, although I'm still wondering how she learned that was its name). But I'm not sure the Collective Consciousness is the way to go. Look how much trouble it caused Max in the books (I still say, that as a sci-fi geek, Book Max should have know better than to ever be that trusting of a collective consciousness ). You mentioned that if Max on the show joined with the collective consciousness, then he could get help from the original four. I'm assuming you mean the Royal Four, right? That made me wonder something. Would the original Royal Four's souls be in the consciousness now (if there was a consciousness on the show). They're dead, so they should be with the others, but then they were reborn (twice in fact), so would they? Hmm....... I'm not sure. What does everybody think? shapeshifter - No problem. I remember that we noticed all the Elvis references in the early half of season 2 and discussed how perhaps the influence of Elvis's music was what allowed Ray in the books to not be totally sucked into the consciousness like Max was. (All Book Max really had to do was listen to more Elvis music - so much simpler than what they ended up having to go through ). But I don't remember any Brody/Elvis discussions. It's been a while since I've watched my Season 2 tapes. What references did Brody make to Elvis? That would be interesting - they both own the UFO Museum, they're both into Elvis, so many similarities. It's interesting how in the books, Isabel was willing to pursue things with Michael and see where they would go, while in the show, she and Michael never seemed that interested in giving it a try. Of course, the dream in the show was much more intense than the one in the books. And the books talk about how Isabel had once had a crush on Michael, while in the show, Isabel always referred to Michael as her brother up until then. So, different perspectives on the situation. bubbles - You know, I'm not sure which name you want to be
called. Please let me know - I'm always so unsure about which login names
to use with people. Should I call you Kath? Or bubbles? not of this earth - I was also thinking about the situation between Liz and her father being similar in both the books and the show. It's rather refreshing to actually have the tv show take the time to explain a character's emotions and back history. Although personally, my sympathies are more with TV Dad Parker than the book one. Yes, lying to her parents was a bad thing for Book Liz to do. But they did tend to overreact and were way too hard on her because of Rosa. While I think that being grounded after being arrested for attempted armed robbery is rather understandable. I'm just wondering why it took her father so long to become concerned about Liz's behavior, with his past history. I mean, this isn't the first time on the show that Liz has lied or snuck out of anything, and he doesn't know about the alien explanations for things. [ 11-04-2001: Message edited by: Anla ] |
| Posted 11-04-2001 06:05
PM by shapeshifter
anla, the only excuses I can see for Pa Parker not reigning Liz in earlier would be
and 2) Max was an 'honor' student and a lawyer's son quote:...which makes me wonder if she starred in that movie: I Married An Alien About Brody and Elvis: quote:I thought maybe he referred to him another time too. Anyone?
quote:Good point about them both encouraging Isabel that way. I guess that's a vulnerable ego spot for alien teen girls. But actually, Kyle did put them in danger at the end of Season 1 when he sided with "Deputy Fisher" aka Agent Pierce (definitely the most attractive bad guy to date ). [ 11-04-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 11-04-2001 09:46
PM by DreamerAtHeart
Hi! Thanks, shapeshifter for the link to this thread. I need to reread the books. I've forgotten so much. Question: Has anyone found a character parallel for Jesse in the books? He may be part of the Metz connection too. Also, if anyone is interested, I have an abbreviated episode guide available that you can download and read on Excel or on a Palm OS device. It's great for quick reference. I've been updating it as this season goes, but right now the downloadable version only has Seasons 1 and 2. You can get it here. [ 11-04-2001: Message edited by: DreamerAtHeart ] |
| Posted 11-05-2001 05:23
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Interesting points about why Mr. Parker is suddenly so concerned about Liz on the show (although I rather suspect that it might have something to do with the new writers remembering that there actually are parents ). I'm sure that the change in Max's reputation definitely has something to do with it. It really has changed since the days when he was the sweet quiet boy "behind the tree" hasn't it? I mean, the look that the teacher gave him when he caught him with Liz in the eraser room, and the way that deputy was acting towards him - this is behavior that Michael might have had directed towards him once, not Max. Of course, being arrested for armed robbery does tend to change ones reputation. So that could definitely have something to do with it. In SH, weren't the fathers inclined to be lenient towards Max and Liz for their overnight activities, while it was Mrs. Parker who had the idea of them not seeing each other for a while? You're right about Kyle putting them in danger when he allied himself with Pierce/Fisher. But I was referring more to his encouragement of Isabel's power use (in BIY). I think that Kyle would know where the line is, where things are getting too dangerous and when to stop, unlike Nikolas in the books. Because Kyle is just cool, and is getting cooler all the time (okay, that wasn't at all objective, but that doesn't mean it's not true ). ITA agree about Agent Pierce being the best looking bad guy so far. He's also the last time I felt true menace from a Roswell bad guy. The Skins and Nicholas just never really managed that. I had a faint tingle of concern for about 15 minutes of one episode, when I thought that Courtney was going to try and lure Michael to the "dark side" and to betray Max, but that storyline never developed that way. We'll see - maybe this season. I know that in the books, I was always worried about the bad guys - Valenti, DuPris, the Collective Consciousness. |
Posted 11-05-2001 05:58
PM by shapeshifter
quote:I'm just finishing Book 4 now (for the 2nd time) and am very intrigued by all the shapeshifting in light of our recent episode (S&L) with the new shapeshifter. I know Tess told Max they couldn't shapeshift, but there was the fingerprint change that Michael did.
Oh! And Nasedo bullying Michael into changing his fingerprint (or else Nasedo was going to kill the guard) was a lot like Nicholas bullying Isabel into knocking out the security guard! On pages 155 ff. Michael is shapeshifted into Valenti (who is like Pierce in the Season 1 show). I bet Bill Sadler would do an excellent job acting as Michael in Valenti's body, but it would have to be a different plotline since Valenti is now a good guy. In the show we had that attractive Back-Street-Boy-Grown-Up acting as Harding/Nasedo shapeshifted into Pierce, and I thought he did a great job too. I guess I just can't find a more worthy male character to think about right now than what's-his-name-BSB. Oh, yes, Kyle/Nick. ITA anla, he's a terrific actor. I bet he could do a great job pretending to be someone else shapeshifted into Kyle--maybe Isabel? Also in Book 4 she shapeshifts into 2 different men. I am looking forward to tomorrow's show to see if there are any new Metzisms. [ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 11-06-2001 02:40
AM by elenac
In S&L, Ferrini’s death reminds very closely Valenti’s death in the books. The situation and the characters are different, but … From The Intruder page 156 A flash of brilliant white light filled the room, reflecting off the walls, blinding Max. ………… Valenti was sitting there, coated entirely in ash, not one speck of skin showing. While reading the books, I think starting from the 4th, I marked all
little hints that reminded me of the serie. At that time I could only spot
S1 and S2 events but it gave me the idea of how much the producers of the
serie analysed the books and made it in little crumbs to be used here and
there. |
| Posted 11-06-2001 11:48
AM by Anla
shapeshifter - Good question. I'm guessing that Michael did get his own fingerprints back, since he was arrested based on them being on the knife found at Pierce's burial spot. He would have been fingerprinted before the White Room episode, so they would have been his original prints. I've never fully understood why the Pod Squad can't shapeshift in the show. I finally decided that it must be that they can't change their human skeleton. They can change little things, like fingerprints or hair length, but not actually shift shape completely. But I don't really understand why, since they can manipulate other molecules. Are human skeletons made of those "heavy atoms" that Nasedo referred to in the FBI secret compound? Of course, Tess could have been lying. After Departure, anything's possible. But if she could shapeshift, why not just change into Liz's shape in order to accomplish her goal of getting pregnant? Max had already shown he was ready to sleep with Liz in EoTW. I dunno. Yes, Nasedo and Nikolas were both bullies. But at least Nikolas kept his word. When Book Isabel knocked the security guard out, Nikolas didn't kill him or hurt him further. Unlike Nasedo, who killed the FBI agent anyway. elenac - Good point about Valenti's death in the books being similar to Ferrini's death in the show (it's more similar to that then it is to the way Nasedo killed, no matter what Max and Liz said in that episode). Nasedo left a silver handprint when he killed. Did that ever happen in the books? I remember the body Valenti showed Liz had a silver handprint, but that wasn't from what killed him. It was from Max trying to heal him, but being too late. I can't recall. |
| Posted 11-08-2001 10:25
PM by shapeshifter
yes, elenac, very good catch on the valenti/ferrini deaths. anla, in the first book Liz thinks Max killed the guy he tried to heal of a heart attack when Valenti shows her the handprint in the morgue on the body. But I don't recall any other prints on corpses. So maybe in the books it was only a healing thing? I'll be looking as I read. But what really struck me was that Liz had 2 handprints in the books, but only 1 in the show. I guess when they did the show they realized only one would fit. |
| Posted 11-09-2001 11:39
PM by Anla
In the latest episode, I noticed some similarities between Ray from the books and Cal from the show. Both told Max to concentrate on life here on earth, and both liked humans and being human. I wonder if Cal has a secret stash of Elvis music somewhere in that mansion of his. A difference would be that Ray was capable of enjoying human sensations. In fact, based on how the consciousness was constantly bombarding Max with requests to try out new foods, feel new textures, etc., it would seem that the aliens in general in the books had no problem with human sensation. Not so, apparently, in the show. (At least not with Cal, although I always got the very strong impression that Nasedo was capable of feeling sensations, especially based on his comments to Liz about how good it felt to be in Max's form). And Ray wanted Max to adjust to life on earth because he didn't think there was any chance of going back to their home planet, while I would like to think that at least part of Cal's advice to Max was based on the fact that if he goes back to Antar right now, he'll probably be killed by Kivar very quickly. Then there's the difference of the fact that Ray liked Max, while Cal really doesn't. (And the fact that Ray didn't kill anyone). Okay, so lots of differences. But they did have those similarities in attitude towards life on earth and humans. |
| Posted 11-10-2001 12:37
AM by shapeshifter
Anla, great comparison! One way to resolve the difference of the sensory abilities of Langley and the Antarians would be to compare him with the Collective Consciousness instead of Ray. The CC needed to filter all the sensory experiences through Max. And do we know that Ray always had sensory abilities? Maybe they were developed (maybe that's why he like Elvis, for him it was the toned down Elvis ). Okay, I really should be sleeping now, just up wrestling with a search engine on my website, trying to get it to reindex all the pages. But I just finished rereading book 5 and was struck by the way Tess was sort of a composite of Cameron and Adam. Tess betrayed them like Cameron, but seemed to regret it at times, also like Cameron. And then Adam's toasting of Valenti was like Tess in WipeOut in that it was fire and that she had an extra power that she "tapped into." Also, it seems that Max & Michael have role reversal between from the books to the show. Of course they've reversed roles within the show too. But in Book 5 it is Michael, not Max, who is held in the equivalent of the White Room. And it is Michael who is tempted by Cameron who betrays him (like Tess with Max) rather than supports him (like Courtney, the Michael Worshipper). Also, it is Max who almost dies going through the akino, which is like Michael in The Balance. There are also a lot of little scenes and lines from Book 5 that appeared in episodes--like Liz & Maria snooping in Kyle's house for information on the compound is like Liz & Max looking for Liz's journal in Missing. The whole compound itself is like the military base of the white room. Also, |
| Posted 11-11-2001 11:14
AM by Anla
shapeshifter - So maybe Ray didn't have sensory abilities when he first reached the planet, and he had to develop them over time? Maybe. Although we know that shapeshifting didn't affect his ability to experience his senses, because he tells Max and Michael that he had shapeshifted frequently over the years in order to avoid notice. (I wonder how nobody noticed that Cal didn't change over the last 50 or so years. ) I just reread the part in the books where DuPris is trying to get the ship fixed. He and Trevor are working on it, and it's taking them a long time to get any work done. And of course, we now know that the ship in the show doesn't work either. Maybe if they still had the Granolith they could get it fixed and fly off to Antar with it. Or maybe someday they'll learn how to combine all of their energies in a connection, which I think they'll have to learn to do someday in order to defeat their enemies. Most likely, though, if Max wants to continue his attempts to get back to the home planet, he's going to have to find an alternate way back, like they did in the books with the worm hole. |
| Posted 11-12-2001 03:39
PM by elenac
Watching Busted I became conscious of how an event described in the books could seems completely new, just anticipating or postponing it in the series, yet be still the same. Some examples: In the books they had to go inside the spaceship to get the healing stones to save Max from his akino, while in the series Max needed the diamond to get inside the ship. The sequence of the event is switched and somehow changes its outcome. Still the basic idea is the same. If we analyse the description of Michael/Isabel/Ray’s entering the
compound to get the healing stones, we can see how the idea of the books
has been used, re-inventing it, in TWR. Let’s see how: Here’s the description, from the books, of when Michael/Iz first see
the ship. And then the ship just found and soon disappeared. But I can’t find now where it’s described in the books. From “The Intruder” page 5: He heard a single word from the two
presences closest to him. The word wasn’t spoken in English ........ It
was as if the essence of the word washed over his brain, needing no
translation. Son. [ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: elenac ] |
Posted 11-12-2001 08:01
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Anla, that is probably the biggest difference between the books and the show--although the friends have their differences in the books, there is an over-arching theme about the importance of pooling energy and supporting one another to defeat the enemy and survive. This is largely absent from the show, or else it's just so subtle that I can't see it. Maybe with Melinda on board and the spaceship incapacitated, and the granolith gone, they will finally decide to join hands... and, well, sort of pray?
quote:Yes, ITA on the similarities. I think the Balance episode was a lot like the Akino too, and the crystals they used resembled each other (in the book and the show).
quote:I hadn't thought of that. I thought it was more like the "Mommogram" from Destiny. But yes, there is a similarity, especially in the way the communication happened between Max and the CC in the book, and between Max and his son in the show: both are not something we can see. |
| Posted 11-14-2001 03:58
AM by elenac
Anla and SS this is my take on Tess/Son being the CC+Cameron+Nicholas. Tess/Son for their power to part M/L. I read on crasdown.com, the transcript of M/L last scene in Control, where Liz drifts away from Max when he tries to hold her and it made me think of Book Liz when she started feeling that the CC was between them. There’s this little episodes when they are on the sofa that
goes: And talking about the analogies between Tess and the CC, revealing are
the words that Max says to Liz about the CC. I’m curious to see how Liz’s drifting away from Max will develop. In the books she ended up breaking up with him as she felt he wasn’t Max anymore. Unfortunately, after it’s been removed the site for downloading Roswell’s episodes, I’m not able to be updated as before so I’ll keep on reading on FF the developments. That’s why I haven’t quite understood why Liz and the people on the board, were so upset with Max that didn’t call her in Control, her reaction doesn’t seem related only to feeling neclected. Tess v.Cameron only for the part of the deal. Tess reminds me more of Nikolas who was able to draw Iz to himself, like Tess with Max in TL&VT or manipulate Iz’s dreams in 4S. The difference lays in Iz being willing and Max being unwilling.
I agree that Series Liz went for Sean because she couldn’t have Max, what I think about Book Liz going for Adam is that their relationship is a continuation of M/L’s, it’s too much Max based. I’ll try to explain it. Adam is the nearest person to Max around, he is alien, comes from Max’s same brood and is so attracted to Liz to remind of Series Max. At a certain point he says that what attracts him to Liz is the way she loves Max. I liked Sean very much but his relationship to Liz doesn’t remind of Adam’s. There’s this sweetness between A/L that reminds M/L’s. An analogy between A/M is when Adam, possessed by DuPris, contacts Liz to tell her they are all in danger, similar to Max possessed by the CC that contacts Liz to be rescued. |
| Posted 11-14-2001 05:16
AM by Melanie0802
Hello !! Long time no see - but I've finally finished my exams and University...so I'll try to be better. What have I been missing?? Mel |
| Posted 11-14-2001 09:37
PM by shapeshifter
Melanie! There you are! I couldn't find you in the "search" to tell you this thread was back. I thought maybe you had shapeshifted names. elenac, in Control Liz only pulls away from Max a little bit--a lot like in the books, but not like in Season 2, and I am not alone in being glad that it is not so bad this time. I hope you get to see it soon. I have been thinking that Cameron is a lot like Tess in that she betrayed the aliens, but she also longed to be a part of their "family." In THATH (the last ep) Kvar was developed differently than any of the major Book villains in that he was both in the non-physical (dream) realm and in the physical realm of earth. I guess this is like the book bounty hunters? Whoops! I had typed "Courtney" instead of "Cameron." [ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 11-16-2001 04:38
PM by elenac
One question. Does Kivar have a body of his own shapeshifted into a human being or has he abducted someone? I've been re-reading the part of the the bounty hunters and it
seems that they were only in the non-physical realm operating from a
distance and using their minds to kill, and in that part of realm they
killed Michael (who was then brought back by all the others connecting
together). The bounty hunters are totally frightening and horrible while, from the comments I read on the board, Khivar reminds book Nikolas who’s attracting and draws Iz to himself both in the dream plane and in the physical realm. Moreover the bounty hunters are only destined to trace criminals. A parallel between Khivar and DuPris could also be made. Kivar has
taken over Max’s planet becoming the king himself, DuPris is planning to
defeat the CC that’s ruling their world and is absolutely evil. [ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: elenac ] |
| Posted 11-16-2001 06:14
PM by shapeshifter
elena, I just finished rereading Book 6, The Stowaway, and in that book the Bounty Hunters have real bodies on earth--a little bit like the Jelly Fish because they have tentacles. ITA about Kvar and DuPris both wanting to take over the world. On pages 103 and 104 of Book 6 there is a bit that reminds me of the previews for next week's show: quote: |
| Posted 11-16-2001 06:29
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - I've been hoping to see more "connecting" and pooling energy on the show since I read the books. The only times I can think of when they've done it on the show is when they used the healing stones (especially when they used it to heal Michael - still one of my favorite scenes in the show) and when Tess joined her energy with Max to fight off the Skins in WO. But maybe they'll incorporate that into the storylines more this season. Oh, and I guess there's been a version of that when Isabel and Liz joined energy to warn Max about the dupes in MitC. And then when Isabel took Kyle along on the dreamwalk in BIY. That's like how the humans in the books didn't have powers that they could use on their own, but they could use them in conjunction with the aliens. I wonder if the show's "changed" humans will ever develop their powers enough to use them independently, and if the aliens can use the energies of humans who haven't been healed, like Maria and Jesse. Good catch with that quote. It sounds very much like what we've seen in the promo. I've always suspected that Kivar used some mental powers to control Vilandra. I guess I'll find out next week if that's true, or if Vilandra is really just that totally different from what we've learned Isabel is in this lifetime. elenac - Max entering the Collective Consciousness in the books has a lot in common with his memory retrieval with Tess in the show. Both were ways of immersing himself in his alien side. That quote you posted reminded me of Max's talk with Liz in Busted when he talked about how he needed to see what would happen with Tess, that it was something he needed to explore, or something like that. Melanie - Welcome back! [ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: Anla ] |
Posted 11-16-2001 08:29
PM by shapeshifter
quote:I was thinking similar thoughts when I marked this passage (also in Book 6, p. 150): quote: Later in the chapter we learn that the metal bands are visible and real when Cameron sees them. Anyway, it reminds me of Liz in MITC, like you mentioned above, Anla.
|
| Posted 11-17-2001 09:41
AM by Anla
shapeshifter - That quote you posted fits in perfectly with Nasedo's original explanation that their powers were human powers, only hundreds of years advanced. Maybe we'll get more of an explanation on that, and Liz and Kyle's "changed" status this season. |
| Posted 11-17-2001 02:23
PM by Maliejandra
I've only read the beginning of the first book, but I think it is pretty weird how Max is supposed to be popular and blonde. It's also very funny that Max sees an aura of color above everyone's head that is totally unique. I was thinking, what would my color be? |
| Posted 11-17-2001 03:55
PM by Anla
Maliejandra - Yeah, Max in the books doesn't feel the need to hide in the background that he does in the show, so he can make more connections and friends at school. I also really loved the idea of the auras the aliens see. Enjoy reading the rest of the series. |
| Posted 11-17-2001 06:30
PM by shapeshifter
Welcome Maliejandra! I am putting post-its with notes in the books as I re-read them. I've got way more notes than I will probably ever post here! I look forward to reading any good comparisons you notice. Right now I'm reading Book 7, which is the last book Melinda wrote before she saw the Pilot of the show. (See her comments on this timeline at CompareNContrastTVnBooks2). Here's a tidbit from Book 7 that reminds me of 285 South: On page 55, Maria finds herself in a car with Michael heading north on 285 toward an abandoned house where a dangerous alien might have hidden a powerful object that could allow them to travel between the home planet and earth (although in the book this is to bring back Alex, not to just find out about the home planet). A bigger comparison and contrast in the same book is on pages 44 and 45: The Collective Consciousness intrudes on Max's mind while he is kissing Liz, just as Tess did in TLV with her mindwarps. The more I read, the more I think Jason Katims intended Tess to be the personification of the CC. The CC wasn't all evil (nor was that Melinda's intent as she says in the same thread linked above), and neither was Tess totally evil (like when she made Christmas dinner for the Valentis). Now I'm wondering if the Kvar situation is representative of Isabel's battle to stay apart from the CC. I can hardly wait to get back to Book 8 with my Post-its to where I recall Melinda picking up some of the speech patterns of the show's characters. [ 11-17-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
Posted 11-18-2001 08:09
AM by Anla
quote: Interesting. If Kivar is trying to exercise control over Isabel (either through some type of mindwarp or by bringing back her repressed Vilandra personality), that could very well be similar to the consciousness. Although in the books, Isabel never wavered in her resistance to joining the consciousness. I just finished rereading book 9 last night, and I was struck again by how strong she is in resisting the thought of joining the consciousness, even when she thought she was dying. Book Isabel certainly had the strength of her beliefs in that regard. While it looks, from the previews, that there is going to be a bigger struggle within Isabel as regards the whole Kivar thing this week. (Of course, we all know how misleading those promos can be at times. ) Of course, it was different for Book Isabel. The collective consciousness was something outside her, something she could see the effect of and make a decision to fight against. TV Isabel's struggle is much more internal. Vilandra is a part of her in some ways. It'll be interesting to see if she still has her memories of that lifetime, and they've just been repressed. Love your post-it idea. [ 11-18-2001: Message edited by: Anla ] |
| Posted 11-18-2001 10:46
AM by elenac
SS - I gather the bounty killers weren’t that scaring for me after all . I’ll go read “The stowaway” part. Anla – Yes, Tess’ memory retrievals also remind of Max’s connection to the CC. And yes, that line I quoted reminds of Max’s speach in Busted. It's just that one thing is to explore the CC, another is to explore Tess. Maybe JK doesn’t see the difference! |
Posted 11-19-2001 07:33
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Very true! We have discussed before that Adam's relationship with Liz is similar to Sean's. Re-reading The Rebel (Book 8) I just came across this line when Liz is sitting with Max while he is totally absorbed in the CC (like with Tess): quote:Max suggests that she leaves him alone and she thinks that "getting out into the fresh air sounded wonderful." She tries to stay with Max (kind of like at the Prom), but eventually is driven away by his absorbtion with the CC (like with Tess). She runs to the bus stop, "pulling in breath after breath of cool air." Eventually she winds up going to see Adam, and the feeling is a lot like when she shows up at the bowling alley to see Sean. She admits to herself that she wants to see Adam, quote:I know in the show first Sean tells Liz she is "suffocating," and then later she says she feels like she is "suffocating." Does anyone remember when she says it in the show? [ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 11-24-2001 02:11
PM by elenac
QUOTE] I know in the show first Sean tells Liz she is "suffocating," and then later she says she feels like she is "suffocating." Does anyone remember when she says it in the show? [/QUOTE] Ah-ah SS you were there! Liz said she was suffocating on the dance floor at Prom, two minutes before Max willingly kissed Tess. So Tess was right when she called that kiss the “infamous kiss”, as she
realized, like me, that “he” kissed her for the first time. Infact, he
reminded me so much of his first kiss with Liz in HW, that I even checked
if he used the same words just before kissing her, but he didn’t. Other comparisons in the M/A/S/L/T relationships. When Liz first sees Sean at the CD, she stares at him like Adam stares at BL. BL kissing Adam reminds me of SM kissing Tess but from a totally
different perspective. [ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: elenac ] |
Posted 11-24-2001 07:55
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Oh yes! quote:--Unlike most (if not all) men who use the same set of words (or "line") to seduce each new woman. Maybe he used different words because he was "Stepford" Max. quote:But as far as we know, he doesn't yet know about TEOTW. He only knows that Liz tried to set him up with Tess. He admits that "he was attracted to someone like myself [alien]" --this sounds like his 'male ego' talking: he doesn't admit yet that he was just going for Tess because he couldn't have Liz, and he doesn't seem to know that Tess used her powers to seduce him. But at the end of Control, he does say he is sorry for 'messing up' Liz's life. And, if he wasn't impulsive, he would never have saved her life in the first place, would he? After the next new ep, they are re-airing The Pilot and TEOTW. Maybe this is a set up for Liz to finally tell Max about Future Max? That would be a great Christmas present for those of us in the States. As I finished rereading Book 9, Liz's attraction to Adam seemed even more similar to her attraction to Sean. There is also the similarity that Adam had been imprisoned in the compound, and Sean had been in a human prison. In the same book, Isabel's experience with going through the akino and fighting off the Collective Consciousness is a lot like last week's episode (Interruptus) in which she fought off the take over by Vilondra. Maybe Max is still not rid of the "Zan" within himself? In that book too, a father (Alex's) turns out to be part of the Alien hunters, but also helps the podsters. This could be a bit like Jeff and Philip in their new quest to find out "What is Max Hiding?" I think in both cases the parents are doing things that the teens resent, but that are intended to protect them. |
Posted 11-25-2001 01:33
PM by elenac
quote: SS you're reading my mind. I'm now posting something about this on Liz' thread. Talking about Iz fighting back the akino, I've only seen up to Control, could that mean that she'll be able to fight Khivar back? ============ [quote] But as far as we know, he doesn't yet know about TEOTW. He only knows that Liz tried to set him up with Tess. He admits that "he was attracted to someone like myself [alien]" --this sounds like his 'male ego' talking: he doesn't admit yet that he was just going for Tess because he couldn't have Liz, and he doesn't seem to know that Tess used her powers to seduce him. But at the end of Control, he does say he is sorry for 'messing up' Liz's life. And, if he wasn't impulsive, he would never have saved her life in the first place, would he? [quote] Anything that'll help me get over it, what I sensed behing those words is too bad to mention. Though why Max didn't aknowledge that Liz confirmed she didn't have sex with Kyle? Still the CC going on? Like now with the search of his child. Not too different from how much he was absorbed and lying on his bed in the books? [ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: elenac ] |
| Posted 11-25-2001 04:13
PM by Anla
Isabel's actions with Kivar this week reminded me a great deal of when DuPris took them over as "puppets" in the books. Isabel lost control of her actions for a while there, but was ultimately able to gain control again based on her own strength of will and the love and support of her family, like in the books. Of course, the tv show is always more complicated than the books. What was controlling her wasn't an outside force, but a part of herself. She had to confront her deepest fear - that of becoming Vilandra again. In the books, she faced her biggest fear when she had to go into the compound and get the crystals, facing and escaping Valenti as she did so. Then it was for the love of someone else, too. Both versions of Isabel are strongly motivated by the instinct to protect and take care of the people she loves. I was laughing so much when I saw that Kivar's new way of travel was a wormhole. It even sucked some things in to it like in the books. True, only a few leaves, but then Kivar had the luxury of picking where he wanted to open up the wormhole, while they didn't have a choice about opening it up in the Crashdown in the books. |
Posted 11-25-2001 08:48
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Anla, you are so right. Then in Book 10 (where I'm reading now), Max is puppet to the Consciousness when he tells Liz he never loved her.
|
| Posted 11-26-2001 10:37
AM by Anla
shapeshifter - Yes, the aliens in the books did seem to have the tendancy to take over other people. Although the consciousness can only "posess" those aliens who have connected to it. While the aliens in the show seem to be able to posess only humans. I wonder if there are any particular limitations on which humans they can take over and use as temps. Larek mentions that he needs to prepare Brody's body before using it. I wonder if any human who has been properly prepared can be used. That whole part of the books when Max is rejecting Liz because of the consciousness is so sad. In book 9, Liz only knew that it was Adam, not Max, because Adam told her it was him. She was depressed when she realized that she was so far out of sync with Max that she couldn't tell right away that it wasn't him. I wonder if she would have been able to tell the difference if they kissed, like in MttM with Liz and Nasedo/Max. |
| Posted 11-27-2001 12:53
AM by Melanie0802
Good morning Shapeshifter, Anla - my computer at home broke down and I hardly get a
chance to come to the Forum. But when I do, I feel a little lost, because
most people I used to post with aren't there anymore... Do you feel the
same? |
| Posted 11-27-2001 11:50
AM by Alexis
Wow, that’s a great intro. Well, I am here, shapeshifter and elenac! Unfortunately I don’t think I have much to add as it has been a long time since I read the books and most of my comments on the stories are critiques on the writing of it. The intro is fantastic and shows so many similarities between the book and the tv show! Great job! I, too, noticed how Ferinni was killed was just like Book Valenti was killed. |
Posted 11-27-2001 09:43
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Ooo, Anla, elenac, should we spoil her? Yes, it has good parts. I think our main problem is the fallout from
the Max/Tess thing, and a new character who didn't have enough
introduction before he...oops--do you want to be spoiled? Yes, Melinda has written an ep that will air in about 3 weeks. I am VERY interested to see how it goes. Alexis, the first time I read the books, I too was critical. But the second time is just pure pleasure--maybe because there's no Tess between Max & Liz? Just sweet little Adam and the Big Bad Impersonal CC. [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
Posted 11-29-2001 10:05
PM by shapeshifter
quote:But then there was Tess who, IMHO, "possessed" Max. I just finished Book 10 (for the second time) and was struck by how much it ended the Book series a lot like Season 2 ended (when JK thought that might really be the end). In both, Michael almost goes to his home planet, but stays for Maria. And Liz in the book bringing back scattered Max, is not so very different than Show Liz opening the eyes of Stepford Max to Tess' evil motives. So then, I am thinking that with the Season 3 promo promises for a "little older" Roswell, and with Melinda on the team, we are now in uncharted areas. |
| Posted 12-01-2001 08:44
AM by elenac
I’m now re-reading the books for the Explanation of words thread and was thinking how nice it is that they kept the series opening scene at CD exactly how it was in the books. The aureas part of the books is charming, but I gather that it was
technically complicated to film and probably after a while we would have
found it a bit tiring. While the connection part has been replaced with
flashes, they haven’t kept the part where they feel other aliens using
powers and feeling the other’s feeling. They could've shown other aliens
using powers just with an alert look and the mentioning of the word
power. Alexis - I hope you’ll find some spare time to re-read the books, as I said I’d like to know the cheesy things you found in them. Being a woman it’s in my genetics to tolerate them. SS - ITA with the ending of both books and S2. In particular Michael's part didn't even need any transposition. He stayed for Maria but also because he was heading to sure death. edited - to add that this morning while cooking lunch (it's
always Roswell time) I realized that the power surge or jolt or whatever
may be compared to Brody's blips on the screen detecting activity in New
York. Too bad it's been used only for the short Dupes storyline. [ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: elenac ] |
Posted 12-02-2001 05:12
PM by shapeshifter
quote:That reminds me of the orbs going off all at once. This would also be similar to the aliens in the books feeling the use of 'power.' But neither the screen blips nor the orbs are a personal power that someone can 'feel.' Maybe recognizing "the evil within" (as the Mommogram warned) is closer? With the Pilot re-airing, I thought I'd look through B1 at the pages
with corners turned down (to note a show-related thing).
|
| Posted 12-02-2001 06:24
PM by Anla
Melanie - Welcome back! Yes, there are lots of new posters around here, and some that have left. But some of us are still here and still analyzing. As for Season 3, let's just say that there have been some things that I have loved and some things that I have very very much not loved lately (I don't know if you want to be spoiled or not, but I'm sure that those watching this season now can probably guess what event I'm not too thrilled about right now). But I think it's trying to get back some of the old friendship aspects of the characters. Maybe that's part of Melinda Metz's influence. She always had such great friendship scenes in the books. I don't know. Alexis - Welcome! Shapeshifter - Well, I'm not personally convinced that Tess "possessed" Max, although I guess anything's possible after learning that she was the great evil last season. (Sorry, I still have unanswered questions about that storyline's conclusion. ) I actually think Max's worst character traits last season (and this one for that matter) were more a result of trauma and the reemergence of his past life personality. But I can certainly believe that Tess was mentally "pushing" him to do what she wanted him to do, since she had tried to mess with his mind before, practically since the first moment she met him. Sweet Adam. I did so love him. Adorable Alex. I miss him. Sigh. I have a thought about something comparing the pilot and the first book, but it's not completely formed yet. I'll be back with it later. (be afraid, be very afraid ) [ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: Anla ] |
| Posted 12-02-2001 07:40
PM by RoXyRoCkEr125
The collective consiousness is something I really want on the show and another alien like Adam who isn't out to kill them or plot against them. |
Posted 12-02-2001 09:03
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Welcome to our little thread, RoXyRoCkEr125. ITA with both your points. It would be nice to see a friendly alien for a change. The show sometimes seems like it's promoting prejudice against aliens. But Adam dying (like Alex) was so sad! The CC was cool. I don't think Tess's mindwarping or possession was equivalent. Also, the CC gave the aliens an excuse for doing evil--whether to combat it or because they were trapped in it. Anla, I will be looking forward to your Pilot/Book 1 comparison--after Tuesday night, I guess? [ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 12-04-2001 09:08
AM by Melanie0802
Um...yep: Please spoil me!!!!! Mel [ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Melanie0802 ] |
| Posted 12-06-2001 08:53
PM by shapeshifter
Melanie, The Pilot aired this week, and The End of the World is airing here next week. Then we get another "all new" one. Season 3 has Max and Liz together again, but last week Maria decided she needed a break from Michael. In the books Maria never felt that way. Re Busted: In Book 1, page 113: quote: |
| Posted 12-07-2001 10:08
AM by elenac
Are book chads allowed here? … ) B1-P49 and 50 – Max and Michael are out of Roswell in the desert looking for the spaceship. The author is talking about Michael. And she goes: When he was a kid ....... he’d been positive they would find the ship. He thought he would just hop in and fly himself and Michael and Isabel home Actually when the author says “he’d just know exactly how all the controls worked”, I sensed that the sentence was meant for Max meaning to recognize him, this way, his leadership. In the same page (50) Michael refers to Superman like Liz in MtGatGSC, even if both are saying something different. Maybe this’s been said already but repetita iuvant (to repeat
helps). |
| Posted 12-07-2001 07:40
PM by Anla
Ugh, do we have to mention Maria's breaking up with Michael? Okay - guess I can't go on ignoring it. You're right - I don't see Book Maria doing that ever. But then again, the characters in the book were able, I think, to connect as a group yet still keep their individual lives and interests. While in the show, there's been such fragmentation in the group in the last year or so. What did Liz say once on the show? Something about how sometimes secrets bring you together and make you feel like you belong, and other times secrets keep you from belonging? In the books, the secrets make them feel like they belong, and that's true at some times in the show, too. But Season 2 had a lot of instances of secrets keeping them apart and making them distrust each other (the biggest instance being Future Max and Liz's plan to make Max stop loving her). I still think the bonds connecting them in the show need to be worked on and rebuilt. Just my opinion, of course. I'm not totally certain that paragraph made any sense. If not, please disregard. In the books, Alex and Maria have a conversation where they're wondering if they would prefer to have their lives back to how they were before they knew about the aliens. They both decide that no matter how much pain they might have in their lives because of their feelings for Isabel and Michael, that they would rather love them than not, no matter what. That reminds me of TV Alex's talk with Kyle in the cave in the HC (episodes which I loved for the friendshipness). RoXyRoCkEr125 - I'd like there to be some way for the characters on the show to get some information about things on the home planet. And I would love to see a friendly alien show up (I loved Adam in the books). shapeshifter - Oh, now I feel pressured about my comparison. Don't expect too much. With work and everything, I'm lucky if my posts are even halfway coherent. elenac - I love the Alex/Isabel HW dream, too. It was just so romantic. It's so interesting that Alex would be having such a sweet and respectful dream about her. I wonder if Book Alex dreamed about Isabel when she wasn't dreamwalking him. She does mention at some point that Alex's mind was like an Isabel shrine, with things that she didn't even remember in it. So it would seem that Alex had been interested in her from afar just like he was on the show. |
| Posted 12-07-2001 08:14
PM by shapeshifter
Anla, pressure? Naaah. This is supposed to be fun. BTW, I love your signature line from Buffy (even though I don't usually go for things Buffy ). elena, about Orbs, you got me thinking. In the books, "orbs" were sort of (in my imagination) like an amnionic sac in which dreams floated. In the show, they were those egg-shaped "communicators" that alerted the Skins to the podsters' location and triggered the Mommogram. At http://www.m-w.com/dictionary.htm the definition for orb is VERY INTERESTING: quote: And on page 127 of book 1: quote:This is so poignant, and not unlike Isabel in the show. And the "purple markings" and the "message from her mother" are like the Orbs in the show. |
| Posted 12-07-2001 09:56
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Yes, both Isabels put family as a high priority. I always thought that was one of the nicest and most refreshing aspects of Isabel's character, even when I didn't much like her at first. Book Max seemed to have a closer relationship with his parents then TV Max, though. In the books, when he thinks he's going to die from the akino, I remember Max trying to remember every little detail about his parents as he's helping his mother get dinner ready. That reminds me somehow of the scene in Departure where Isabel is having dinner with her parents before leaving. I always got the feeling that she was trying to memorize everything about them before leaving them, too. |
| Posted 12-08-2001 06:47
AM by shapeshifter
Anla, I wonder if that difference between Book Max and Show Max could be attributed to male writers on the show? I think men really do think/feel those things, but don't generally write about them. Also, in the current stuff on the show, Max is really risking everything to protect his parents' innocense. When Mr. Evans was tapping the phone conversation, he would have felt much differently if he had heard Isabel say something like, "...and Mom and Dad will be safe for another day too." |
| Posted 12-08-2001 12:53
PM by Candy69
Again, dealing with the character of Michael. Michael in the tv show was the leader of a group against Khivar. In the books, Michael belonged to a family who rallied against the collective consciousness. It seems that in both versions, Michael is the character with leadership abilities, while Max is the weaker in strength |
| Posted 12-08-2001 09:35
PM by shapeshifter
Candy69, You don't by any chance happen to be a poster from the 'What if Michael was the King' thread from the UPN board? Anyway, very good point about Michael belonging to the insurection group in both books and show. Also, that isn't revealed in the books till long after Book 1, supposedly the only one that the show was based on (but we know better! ). But I'm rereading Book 1 again and seeing some interesting things that I missed on the first 2 readings (separated by more than a year, so it was more like 2 first readings ). Candy69, on p. 27: "Max loved to take charge. ... He loved
telling [Isabel] and Michael what to do." quote:Or, it's just a "plain" blooper, and Metz meant to type, "He thought he would just hop in and fly himself and Michael and Isabel home," which would make Michael the pilot, at least. ************************** Other things: B1, p8: Liz talks about Max as she knew him before he healed her and how he was different than most people, specifically, how [b]he wondered about cloning and if a soul could be cloned. Also, on p. 7: "Liz & Maria had been friends since 2nd grade when
they bonded over a hurt baby bird." Then, on page 12 Max gets a flash from
Liz during the healing that includes little Maria holding the bird.
[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
Posted 12-09-2001 07:50
AM by shapeshifter
quote:Elena, I thought this passage gave JK the idea for the Mommogram: quote:It certainly marks a real departure of the show from the books. In the books Michael eventually meets his brother (a little like The Dupes, I guess?), whereas in the show they have the Mommogram, which wasn't Michael's relative, but did deeply effect him. |
| Posted 12-09-2001 10:49
AM by Anla
shapeshifter - I don't personally think that Max is trying to keep his parents out of things just to be self-sacrificing and protect them. I'm sure that's part of it, but I think an even larger part is that he doesn't believe they'll still love him if they find out. He even told Isabel that they might turn them in if they learned the truth. I don't think Max believes in unconditional love and that he can trust his parents that much, and that's why he has such emotional distance between himself and his parents. I wonder if his reluctance to trust people that much is because of just his fears and insecurity about being an alien (which would make sense even if that's all it is) or if it's also due to betrayals he had in his past lifetime (something Book Max never had eating at his subconscious). Was Mr. Evans listening in on the phone conversation? I thought at first that he was, then decided that it was just a voiceover showing us him while we heard Isabel talking. Now you have me wondering again. There's a board somewhere with a thread about what if Michael was the king? I should go looking for that one - sounds interesting. Candy69 - I definitely think that Michael (in both the books and the show) has leadership capabilities. I don't think he wants to be the king, but he definitely wants to take charge in emergency situations and put himself in the way of danger to protect the others. Like in the pilot, when Michael walks forward first, putting himself between Max and Isabel and the possible human "threat" of Liz and Maria. And in the books, when he goes off alone to use the Stone of Midnight to try and find the ship when Max is sick with the akino, figuring that if one of them has to take the risk of dying, it should be him. Michael has this tendancy to think that if anyone should be hurt, it should be him, not the others. All part of his protective instincts. [ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: Anla ] |
| Posted 12-09-2001 10:58
AM by Old_candyfan
Boy, I haven't posted on this thread for ages, it seems like it just slips by me. Anla I agree, Michael is always willing to sacrifice himeself for the others, and often takes charge in an emergency, like AN when he told Tess someone had to be the leader. When Max was really out of it. He also assumed a more leadership role in the final books when Max was taken over by the connection to the home planet. |
| Posted 12-09-2001 11:06
AM by Anla
Kay - Welcome back to the thread! I hadn't thought about it, but you're right. Michael did take more of a leadership role when Max was out of it. In both the show and the books, Michael becomes more of a leader as time goes on and he starts to have more confidence in himself and becomes more mature and settled in to his life on earth. In both, he gets his emancipation, gets his own place to live, and has to worry about work and supporting himself. He has to grow up pretty quickly in both versions. |
Posted 12-10-2001 02:13
PM by elenac
quote: Sorry SS I haven't quite understood what you mean. What I was wondering about was how the author was technically working on the books. For instance, reading Metz and Burns interview, they say that Burns was the first to develop the characters, the story arcs and the tone of the books, then called in Metz to actually write the books. I was quite astonished to know this and was wondering: if most of the work was done by Burns (idea and all) why the books’ author is Metz. Going on on this specs what I was also wondering was that probably they had thought out every little event of the books separately, like Michael’s that was meant for Max, and then tied them all up together and put into the present sequence afterwards. This way it’s also explained how JK has been working on the serie using the same worked out events and placing them here and there slightly modifying them to fit in. But maybe it’s all my imagination. When I read the book dedicated to Trevor I also had the impression that the idea of the Dupes came from there. The author went on quite a lot saying that he looked so much like Michael. Should we know more about the UPN board? Has everybody migrated there? |
Posted 12-10-2001 08:37
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Oops! A blooper about a blooper! This must be a meta-blooper? I think I meant to say that Metz probably meant to type: "He thought he would just hop in and fly himself and Max and Isabel home."
quote:I am guessing that Burns did not actually do the writing.
quote:I read an interview with JK in which he said he doesn't plan things very far in advance.
quote:Yes, and in The Dupes episode, Michael even introduces Rath to Brody as his brother from NY.
quote:I will pm you the address since it's not allowed here. But it's a slower board than this one. |
| Posted 12-11-2001 04:43
PM by Anla
Wow - I really don't know much about what happens on the Internet outside of FF. I didn't even know there was a UPN board until I read about it here. I was talking elsewhere about favorite moments from the books, and Michael and Maria teaching his foster brother how to dance came up. I've always thought that scene was so cute. And it reminded me of how Michael didn't know how to dance in the show, and how it seemed that he was almost afraid and embarrassed at first to admit it (like how he didn't like people knowing he didn't know how to play Monopoly). Just another example of how Michael in the show had grown up more isolated from the typical social interactions that other people his age were experiencing, while Book Michael was much better adjusted to human life at first. [ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: Anla ] |
| Posted 12-16-2001 07:53
AM by Anla
So, I'm rereading Book 10, and I just got to the part where Max tries to communicate with Liz in her dreams by showing up in the shape of a dolphin. There's a girl in the dream who says that it's a very special dolphin that's "not from around here". And while it's a sad scene, because Max is trapped and everything, a small part of me is laughing because I'm remembering how Max said that in the pilot episode. I was halfway expecting the dolphin to raise a flipper and point up. |
Posted 12-16-2001 08:00
PM by shapeshifter
quote: Very funny! But, actually, that's a perfect example of the kind of thing I was planning to find when I reread the books: a line from the show that Melinda later included in books 8-10 (that were written after she saw the Pilot and some of the other Season 1 eps). But I got so into other comparisons (and the plot) that I neglected to note those lines. Guess I'll have to reread again. |
| Posted 12-17-2001 08:20
AM by Anla
shapeshifter - Aw, you're going to have to read the books again? That sounds like it's going to be as tough as rewatching the opening of Heatwave is for me. I love rereading these books, too. Some books are just as enjoyable to read over and over again. Here's another example of something in Book 10 that's also in the show, although it's not a line of dialogue. In the second dream that Liz has where Max is trying to contact her (the one where Max is in the form of the tree), Liz is wearing the cupcake dress she had in kindergarten. I can't remember if it was mentioned in the book series before that. [ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: Anla ] |
| Posted 12-17-2001 03:45
PM by Kathryn *A*
Okay, I have loadsa stuff to catch up on...*note to self, check threads more often* So yeah, I was in bed last night thinking, and staring at my Roswell poster. And then it hit me. My mother theory. See in eng lang we're doing gender conversational language and conversational language and Max and Michael are dominant whilst Isable (and to a certain extent Tess "What do we do now, Max?" Harding I love her, really I do). So yeah, give me a couple of days and I'll have it all worked out. Off now to catch up... |
| Posted 12-17-2001 07:28
PM by shapeshifter
Anla, the cupcake dress is in book 1. I can't give the page number right now, but it's the same scene (healing) as the show. But I don't think (will have to check ) that M. Metz used a flashback to the cupcake dress again until Book 10, whereas the show uses it regularly. So yes, IMO, that would be a show thing in the later books. |
| Posted 12-21-2001 03:48
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Glad that I could help in your compilation effort. I'm still rereading Book 10. I'm at the point where Michael is trying to avoid Maria in preparation for his leaving. I don't know why I'm reading this part. Combined with what's going on in the show, this is just a bit too much Roswell unhappiness for me to handle. At least I know it will end happily for Michael and Maria in the books. |
| Posted 12-22-2001 11:57
AM by elenac
This is going to be teeny-weeny, I'm still stuck on B1. B1-P58 - Liz and Maria are in the quad and Liz is trying to delay as much as possible to go to bio and meet Max. Alex arrives in the middle of their conversation and Liz changes subject and starts talking about tampons so that Alex stops them disgusted. Liz thinks: Maria is such an awful liar. In TMA we have a reverse situation where Liz is an awful liar and Maria, to mislead Alex, first brings up Czechoslovakians meaning aliens and later cramps, both (Liz and Maria) threatening to go into excruciating details so that he gives up. About the Superman reference: quote: Definitely. Two minds work better than one
[ 12-22-2001: Message edited by: elenac ] |
| Posted 12-27-2001 02:04
PM by elenac
Hi everybody. Another little thing about book 1. When Liz is in the morgue with Valenti and shows him her stomach where the silverhand print has gone, she says it's because it was a temporary tattoo. I can't recall Liz saying something like that in the serie but it strangly matches with the fake silverhand print Maria painted in her stomach that left a mark on Valenti's hand. He probably didn't buy the story since it wasn't backed up with the lie Liz said in the books. I hope you understand what I mean, because it sounds a little tangled up . [ 12-27-2001: Message edited by: elenac ] |
| Posted 12-27-2001 02:18
PM by Anla
Still reading Book 10 (I'm not really this slow of a reader, I'm just savoring it ). I got to the part where Isabel is trying to decide whether or not to go to the home planet with Trevor and Michael when they leave, and she turns to Alex for advice on the subject. It reminded me of how Isabel went to Alex's grave in the show in order to get his advice about whether or not to go back or stay on earth. True, it was just Alex's spirit in the show, not really him, but the sentiment was the same. When confused and needing someone to tell her the truth and to listen to her, Alex is the one both Isabels turn to. Sigh - I love Alex. And in both cases, Max is basically the deciding factor in Isabel's decision. In the show, Isabel decides to leave because Max is her family and her home. And in the books, Isabel says she won't even consider leaving if Max needs her on earth. |
| Posted 12-29-2001 08:30
AM by Zara
Hi everyone, I'm Zara, and I post most frequently on the Liz' Importance thread. Shapeshifter suggested I bring this post over here for you. Santa brought me the first Roswell High book for Christmas, and I've noticed something rather iteresting in the very first chapter! It's Reggie's hair theory! (n.b., Reggie is a frequent poster on the Liz Myth thread -- perhaps we should get him to explain his hair theory here!) Anyway, Liz pulls her hair back into a ponytail, explaining in the narrative that she can't think clearly with her hair hanging down in her face. How does that jive with all the messy hair and confusion last season? I'm also enjoying the emphasis on auras in the book. I'd love to see more of that in the tv series. |
| Posted 12-29-2001 02:18
PM by shapeshifter
elenac, ITA that the book excuse for the silver handprint worked better than the show one. I'm still not sure on the show about Maria pretending to be run over by her own car. Anla, Also, in the show Isabel seeks Alex's spirit's approval to
marry Jessie. She turns to Michael "as a brother" while Max is in LA,
then, finally, it is Max who convinces Mom & Dad to support her
decision to avoid alienating her (my word choice, not his ). So the same
pattern holds as in the books. Zara, great catch! Thanks for bringing the post over here. quote: |
| Posted 12-30-2001 10:24
AM by Anla
Zara - Thanks for bringing over that theory. Interesting. I have to admit that I've never paid all that much attention to Liz's hair in the show, but I'll have to on my next reviewing. Just wondering - how was her hair during Busted? Messy or neat? I don't remember, but if the theory is true, I'm guessing messy. I love how Liz pulls her hair back when she's nervous in the books or when she needs to be able to think more rationally. It's those little quirks that make the characters seem more real, like Isabel's tendancy to go into neat-mode when she's upset about something. shapeshifter - Seems as if Isabel likes to have Alex as her sounding board when she's making major life decisions. Not that I blame her - he's a great guy to listen to you. I remember that we discussed how Isabel's relationship with Grant on the show resembled hers with Nikolas in the books in that they were both ways of rebelling against Max and Michael. Now you have me wondering if her relationship with Jesse is similar. While I have nothing against Jesse personally (from what very little we know of him), I have to admit that I have problems with her hasty wedding to him. For one thing, I wish that the show had spent some time really showing us the development of that relationship. I still don't get the feeling of them as a real couple. As some characters told Isabel on the show, it wasn't that they disliked Jesse, it was that they didn't know him. I guess I feel the same way. He seems nice and all, but all I know about him is that he's a lawyer and that he likes to play golf (oh, and he flosses ). And I have major problems with the fact that Isabel married him without ever letting the poor guy know that she was an alien. It makes the marriage that much harder for me to see as real. And I did have a feeling that, if not the marriage itself, the way that she pushed up the wedding date was a way of rebelling against all the interference she was getting from everyone in her wedding plans (which I can't blame Isabel for being upset at). So, how much of that was rebelling? I'm not sure. But if it was, then it was Isabel rebelling against her alienness, and trying desperately to have something normal and human, unlike in the books, where she was rebelling by wanting to use her alien powers more. [ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: Anla ] |
Posted 01-01-2002 08:39
AM by shapeshifter
quote:In the Pilot (which did follow the book, pretty much) she admits to using her powers "recreationally," which seems to be outside of the 'sacred pact.' |
| Posted 01-01-2002 10:42
AM by Anla
shapeshifter - Isabel likes to use her powers for little things ("recreation") in both versions, things like playing CDs or doing her make-up. I can't imagine, personally, having those types of powers and never using them at all, even in private. But she goes way beyond that in the books when she gets with Nikolas. I figured that in the show, Isabel used her powers to quickly make the alterations she'd need for her wedding dress before the ceremony. But I think in her mind, there's a distinction between using her powers in private for little things like that and doing something huge, like Max healing Liz in public, for instance. I can understand how annoyed Isabel is about having to ask Michael and Max for permission to tell Jesse about her being an alien. Max, especially, has thrown the rules way out the window in the past. I'm not saying he shouldn't have healed Liz, but it did put them all in danger, not just him. So, Max rewrote the rules and changed everything in the pilot/first book. Of course, if he hadn't, then we wouldn't have a series. |
| Posted 01-03-2002 07:36
AM by shapeshifter
Just a quick post before running off to work. In the books the only one (I think?) who ever experimented with alcohol/drugs was Liz's dead sister. In the show, the alien males seem to go for it when they have trouble with their steady human girlfriends. |
| Posted 01-04-2002 12:42
PM by Anla
The only instance I can remember in the books where there was even a hint of the alien low-tolerance for alcohol/drugs was at the end of the fifth book, when they're rescuing Michael from the compound and Isabel is given that tranquilizer from one of the scientists. The scientist was surprised at just how extreme a reaction Isabel had to it, spasms and pain. I figured that Isabel, being alien, had a stronger reaction to the drug than a human would have. But otherwise, the only mention of drugs I recall is the one you mentioned, with Rosa. [ 01-04-2002: Message edited by: Anla ] |
| Posted 01-06-2002 09:50
PM by shapeshifter
Anla, good catch on Book Isabel's reaction mirroring Show Michael's--especially since Melinda Metz co-wrote (at least) TOTP. I just watched the movie Contact based on the Carl Sagan book of the same name. Like Harry Potter, they had to cut down on the number of occurances of things--like 1 Quidditch match instead of 3 in the HP book, and 1 space traveler instead of 5 in the Contact movie. It's almost the opposite with the Roswell the TV show--they seem to multiply occurances of things. |
| Posted 01-07-2002 01:10
AM by *ruthie*
i think they should have added more elements from the books to the show. i didnt really like how they staged it with maria and all but i still love the pilot. i liked it in the books how max and liz had to kiss in front of kyle but it probably wouldnt have been right on the screen. i think why they didnt use alcohol in the books was because they were just that little bit younger. i think they were still 16 in the books, but it seemed like they wanted to concentrate more on the scifi. i would have thought isabel and nicholas were a lot like nicolas/kivar. i think maybe thats how it woudl have started. [ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: Max Evans saved my life ] |
| Posted 01-07-2002 06:19
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Oh, that scene was one of my favorites in the book series. I loved the way that Alex was about to start freaking when he saw Isabel shift into the alien form, but then he was thinking that he had to get a hold of himself, that it was just Isabel, so he was able to calm down and take care of her, because he loved Isabel in any form. Very cool, and classic Alex. Michael's response to the alcohol in the show (heightened sensitivity to any stimuli) seemed like the akino in the books. I bet Isabel wished that someone had levitated her in that sequence where she thought that her bedcovers and the carpet were filled with sharp points. Max Evans saved my life - It's definitely possible that TV Isabel's (Vilandra's) relationship with Kivar started off the same way that Book Isabel's relationship with Nikolas started - a way to have fun and have some small rebellion against Max, but it got way out of hand. I wonder if we'll ever get more background information about Vilandra's relationship with Kivar, or if we'll ever see him again on the show. [ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: Anla ] |
Posted 01-09-2002 10:09
PM by shapeshifter
quote: This scene is quite a contrast to the resurection of Nasedo in Destiny. As I recall, Max has a look of fascinated horror as he sees Nasedo's alien form flashing in and out. And then the Mommogram tells them that she comes in "this form" because it is what they are familiar with. Also, we have Kal taking on alien form, and then dropping injured out of the spaceship. In contrast to Alex carrying alien-shaped Isabel, we only see Max helping Kal when he has returned to his human form. Since we saw alien manikins in the Brody-hostage scene (that would have served for a limp Kal), I think the choice to not have Max physically helping the alien-shaped Kal was a deliberate choice. |
| Posted 01-10-2002 02:34
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Maybe this goes along with how much more okay with their alienness the kids were in the book series. Yes, they had to keep it a secret and all that, but I don't recall them ever thinking about it as something horrible or to be ashamed of. They just accepted it as part of who they were. And once they all connected in the first book, the humans never really had any problem with them being alien. When there was a problem, like with Alex's response to Isabel's alien shape, it was very brief and then they got over it, because they knew each other so well from the connection. They might have some differences, but they knew each other too well to ever be really freaked by each other (a huge exception to this would be Liz's response to Max being taken over by the consciousness, but her problem with that came from the fact that he wasn't really being Max anymore). While on the show, it's always seemed to me that they are constantly afraid of how people are going to react to their alienness, and not just because of being locked away and experimented on, but because they're afraid people will turn from them in disgust if they learn the truth. Max tells Liz in SH that he never believed that anyone could look at him and feel the way that she did in the flashes. Max tells Isabel that he doesn't believe their parents will be able to accept the fact that they're aliens and still love them the same way. Michael's afraid right from the start that he'll hurt Maria, just because of who he is. And Isabel spent lots of energy keeping people at a superficial distance, not letting anyone close. And Liz had problems dealing with Max's alieness, leading to Max's "step back" in the Balance. Of course, there's also the problem of having to deal with the fact that not only are they alien, but they're reincarnated alien royalty with these whole other lives to deal with. We've talked about how Isabel was afraid of repeating Vilandra's mistakes. Small surprise if she found her alienness to be something to be cautious about, if not afraid of, if she's worried that it will lead her to betray her brother and friends again. |
| Posted 01-10-2002 09:32
PM by shapeshifter
Anla, in B1, when Max tells Liz he's alien, she is totally repelled, which really crushes him. Book Maria sees them as 'enemies' initially. But after they iron all that out, it's not such an issue except with Project Clean Slate, like you said. And in the end it seems that PCS is only after the evil aliens, not all aliens (kind of like the terrorism war, I guess). But yeah, that whole Royalty thing really changed the direction of the show away from the book. And when they announced they were clones and not just aliens...well, I was very disappointed. But I have accepted it, and even think it's an interesting concept now. |
| Posted 01-11-2002 04:53
PM by elenac
Hi everybody. In B1-P110 Max and Liz are in Bitter Lakes at the bird sanctuary talking about sheriff Valenti that took Liz to the morgue. Liz is asking a lot of questions about the three aliens and what Max tells her reminded me a little of Tess and her memory retrivals. He says: When we got older, we spent a lot of time talking, trying to remember everything we possibly could. We all had these memories of another place, a place like nothing we’d seen ..... Later on when they arrive at school, Max upset by Liz’s revelations
thinks: Everything was still the same, but everything was
different. |
| Posted 01-11-2002 05:15
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - You're right about Liz's initial response in the books, of course. But what I was talking about was how the humans and aliens accepted it after the connection. I really do think that the connection was what allowed them all to be so okay with who and what they were, because they knew each other so well. They couldn't be freaked or insecure about each other when they were that strongly bonded. I really do love the whole connection aspect of the books. They were always my favorite parts. Maybe because I just think it would be such an awesome thing to have in real life. |
| Posted 01-11-2002 10:15
PM by shapeshifter
Yes, in the books the connection was the centerpiece. In the show it has been more the metaphor of teens as aliens. Contact (the movie) aired this week--in it the connection between aliens and humans was also the focus. I wonder if it influenced Melinda. |
| Posted 01-14-2002 06:47
AM by Anla
I've never seen that movie. Was the alien/human connection similar to the ones in the books? Not exactly, I mean, but similar in that it was more emotional than reading each other's minds or something like that? |
| Posted 01-14-2002 10:15
PM by shapeshifter
In Contact the aliens reached out from several wormholes away to Earthlings (and others). They were peaceful and interested in communicating with others. You can read the book (I checked out from a library this summer) by Carl Sagan. Caution: I was reading it on an airplane on my way to a job interview and the guy next to me started creeping me out by coming on to me under the guise of having had an alien contact experience--totally weird mixture. Like using religion to seduce. I haven't sat in a window seat since. 'course I haven't flown since then except home. Sorry to get OT. It's hard waiting so long for the next ep. |
| Posted 01-16-2002 06:17
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Yeah, that sounds like a relatively disturbing experience. And you were trapped in the window seat? Ugh. So they used wormholes, too? Of course, I've become suspicous of aliens, so I'd have to be convinced that they were friendly, but that's just a bad side-effect of all the aliens who showed up in Roswell's second season. (Although I'm willing to give Larek the benefit of the doubt, but he's vanished mysteriously into the UFO Center's black hole.) And I know what you mean about it being hard to stay on-topic without new eps. It seems even longer than it has been since we've had a new one to talk about. When's the next new one coming? [ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: Anla ] |
| Posted 01-21-2002 05:21
PM by shapeshifter
Goodness, another whole week till another ep. Too bad they don't just air them every other week so we could have plenty of time to dissect them, but not TOO MUCH time. :: :: But I guess if they did that people would get the on/off weeks mixed up and miss a lot of eps (but not us!). Okay, :::shapeshifter pulls out a RH book with post-its::: here's one: on page 93 of The Wild One (B2), Isabel and Nickolas break into the bowling alley after hours and go bowling alien style. That's a lot like Liz & Sean B&Eing into the bowling alley. In fact, Nickolas slides Isabel on a cushion of air down the alley, and Sean slides down the alley in socks. I would love to know if the script writers read B2, and if they did, did they remember it? In Helen Keller's "The Story of My Life" she is accused of plagiarizing a story that was told to her when she was just learning language. I think that sort of thing happens a lot, and that there aren't any really new stories--just updated versions. [ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 01-23-2002 04:03
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - I like your on again/off again week idea for new episodes. And I'm sure that Roswell fans would be able to keep track of the weeks. You know, I didn't even pick up on the bowling alley similarities until someone brought it up on this thread. Probably because I had so many problems with the Sean storyline at that time (not with his character so much as the unanswered questions in his storyline) that I didn't pay much attention to him and Liz in the bowling alley. But there are definite similarities there. I rewatched part of the HC the other day. I wonder if Laurie Dupree and her family are going to show up again. If her aunt and uncle really are as evil as DuPris in the books, then we may not have seen the last of them. And I always wondered what they did after Laurie got control of the family estate. Or the name might be a coincidence, but who knows? |
| Posted 01-28-2002 08:30
PM by shapeshifter
And what about the "tainted" $50,000? Was it really? Not sure how this week's ep will relate to the books, if at all. The ep that Melinda helped write (wasn't that the New Year's Eve party ep?) did seem more like the books. Who's doing the Bewitched take-off? [ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 01-29-2002 12:09
AM by Michael DeLuca
I STILL haven't read The Salvation (i'm so sad) I've moved on to the new series- i've read Loose Ends/No Good Deed...i was wondering if the third title had come out anywhere yet? |
| Posted 01-29-2002 06:08
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Ah, yes. The tainted money. Poor Michael. It's not bad enough that he feels betrayed and let down by his alien side (he was so disapointed in Nasedo), but then to go through all that with his human "family", too. At least he met Laurie. It really would be nice if there was some mention of her this season, since Michael seemed to care for her a great deal. Of course, on the plus side, there wouldn't have been a trip to Vegas without the money, and VLV was one of my favorite Roswell eps ever. Gotta love Valenti's speech to them. I'm really not sure what to expect from tonight's episode. But yeah, there were some good friendshippy book-like moments in the New Year's episode. I liked the Kyle and Isabel hanging-out parts (although I'm not real thrilled at his crush on her - I don't want to see Kyle hurt anymore), and it was nice how it ended with them all having breakfast together at the Crashdown. And Liz really was a good friend for Michael. It's nice to see them break out of their couples and show friendship with the rest of the I Know an Alien Club. That's definitely something in the spirit of the books. Xander DeLuca - The Salvation was a really good ending for the series. I'm not sure about the third book based on the show. Are they coming out with another one? [ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: Aratheraidwen ] |
| Posted 01-29-2002 07:13
PM by *ReDnGrEeNmNmS*
Just stopping by and checking things out! Peace~Jordan |
| Posted 01-30-2002 03:47
PM by Anla
Hi, Jordan. What's up? So, we saw much golf last night. I knew that Jesse enjoyed playing golf, and it didn't surprise me that Mr. Evans played, but I don't think I ever would have expected Michael to sneak in to a private golf course in order to play. Anyway, it reminded me of the miniature golf course from the Roswell High books. Coincidence? Alex took Isabel to the miniature golf course for their date that one time. And Nikolas used his alien powers to cheat at the golf game so that Isabel could win, and TV Michael used his powers during his game of golf. Mr. Evan's golf course seemed a bit more serious than the miniature golf course with all the alien stuff, though. [ 01-30-2002: Message edited by: Aratheraidwen ] [ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: Aratheraidwen ] |
| Posted 02-01-2002 11:38
PM by shapeshifter
Hey Anla (or whatever your long, new, pretty name is ), I think Mr. Evans really knows something! Okay, I keep thinking about the part about 6-year-old Michael levitating the table. Didn't they have some reference to something like that in the books? |
| Posted 02-02-2002 03:44
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - I'm using my elf name for posting right now. I really loved the LOTR movie. But it is pretty long, so everyone is still calling my Anla. In that scene in the episode, did the social worker also say that Michael's foster father wasn't very reliable? Was this Hank? I would imagine so. So Michael moving the refrigerator wasn't the first time that Hank saw him using his powers. Hmmmm...... Anyway, I can't remember that from the books. I don't remember much mention of them using their powers as children except for the fact that they all saw auras and talked about it, but people just thought that they had overactive imaginations when they were kids. But it's definitely possible that I'm just forgetting something. Guess that's an excuse to go reread the books again. |
| Posted 02-03-2002 10:59
AM by elenac
Hi everybody, hope you’re all doing fine. I found this on B2-P13, when all the kids are against Iz, accusing her
to have flipped the mascot. Then on B2-P15 when the kids start wondering if another alien could be
around and Iz says “I wish” and the writer continues: When she was a kid,
she used to hope there were other aliens. Maybe a girl who would be her
best friend….. |
| Posted 02-03-2002 11:50
AM by Anla
Are they making plans for season 4? I wasn't aware of that. That's interesting. The promo for next week's episode, the one where Liz is having trouble and developing "alien" powers and Michael says she might die, reminds me of Maria's situation in the second book. Apparently, humans trying to channel alien powers have a difficult time in both Roswell universes. With Maria, it was a simple matter to seperate her from the ring once they knew what was going on (not easy, because they had to deal with the bounty hunters, but simple in that they knew what to do). But if this is something that's going on inside of Liz because of Max healing her, then it's going to be a bit more complicated to figure out how to deal with it. |
Posted 02-04-2002 04:46
AM by elenac
quote: Hi Anla, from this far, I can only read regularly articles on crashdown.com and read that S3 finale will also be a pilot for a S4. Besides that, since I'm a wishful thinking person, I won't give up expecting future seasons till real Roswell's closing down (I'm not giving credit to bad news till the end but always vote for Roswell's survival) BTW, some of those articles may be spoilerish, so beware [ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: elenac ] |
| Posted 02-04-2002 04:04
PM by Anla
elenac - Thanks for the information. I don't go over to the Crashdown very often anymore because I am trying to avoid spoilers (although I have to admit I'm wavering - I'm getting impatient with the current Michael and Maria situation ). |
| Posted 02-06-2002 10:10
PM by shapeshifter
elenac, Great catch about "Laura Burns" mentioned in the books! Anla, is it significant that "rath" is part of your new name? Freudian slip, maybe? The promo for next week reminds me of the end of Book 10 when Liz disolves herself to bring back the scattered Max. Wow, never thought about the symbolism there before. Actually, MITC was a lot like that too. Did we already mention that? Probably. |
| Posted 02-08-2002 02:46
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Actually, I didn't pick my name. I got it from a website that tells you your elvish name. But I did notice the "rath" in it right away. I'm sure it refers to Former Michael/Rath. I thought it was too funny. I'm a bit concerned about next week's episode. It doesn't look like it's going to be much fun, although it might be good in an angsty sort of way. Seems like we're getting back more into the suspense/someone-out-to-get-us spirit of previous seasons and the book series. [ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: Aratheraidwen ] |
| Posted 02-08-2002 08:35
PM by shapeshifter
Zero pointed out over on the Importance of Liz thread that what Liz was going through was a lot like the Akino in the books. ITA Anla/rath/whatever on next week looking a bit disturbing. Actually, I was deeply saddened by this week. I didn't see how Liz could be smiling on a bus ride from NM to VT either. |
| Posted 02-08-2002 09:10
PM by Anla
Anla/rath? Okay, I can deal with that. Yeah, I was thinking about that when I saw Liz's reactions. That and Michael's response to alcohol both seemed very akino-ish. While I was personally glad to have Liz yell at Max (even though I don't think Max owes her an apology for sleeping with Tess, since Liz had broken up with him repeatedly by that point) because it was about time that the two of them actually talked about their problems and tried to deal with them without allowing them to fester, and this was obviously something that she'd been holding inside and was bothering her, I was confused by her leaving like that. I didn't get it. And I wasn't too thrilled with Maria's behavior this week, either, personally. And if Valenti gets hurt next week, then things are just getting worse and worse. I love Valenti. But maybe things won't be as bad as I think they'll be, right? |
Posted 02-08-2002 10:13
PM by shapeshifter
quote: That's what I'm counting on too. Like how the promos for the New Year's Eve party ep were much, much worse than the real thing. |
| Posted 02-09-2002 05:16
AM by *ruthie*
i just read book #2 after watching crazy so i noticed the tess thing as well. theres also another similarity. dont know if its been mentioned. theres a bit i think its around book 7 where liz is at the desert and she broke up with him and started crying so she turned around and ran off. it remindeed me of destiny. |
| Posted 02-11-2002 08:10
AM by shapeshifter
*ruthie*, I'll have to check that out in bk7. Just a quick post from work: On another thread someone pointed out that Isabel & Michael were left out of the Liz healing. I am guessing that this would have never happened in the books where actors don't get paid. --or in a higher-budget production. I am also thinking that the low-budget that has plagued the show from the beginning is owing to its teen-ageness--same with literature with teen heroes that are seldom taken seriously by reviewers. |
| Posted 02-11-2002 03:03
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Oh, the others would have definitely been there in the books. No way would any of them have missed out on trying to help save the life of one of the group, unless they were involved in running interference or evading enemy sheriffs. When Max was dying, they were all there as much as they could be, and when he was in his consciousness coma, they were always popping in and out to visit. If an actual healing ceremony was going to be performed, they would all be there contributing their energy to it. Like in the first season of the show, when Michael was dying and they all combined their energies in the balance ceremony. I didn't really understand why Max didn't ask the others to come out into the desert with them. The healing stones can be used by humans as well as the aliens - they just needed to combine their energies. At least Kyle was there. |
| Posted 02-12-2002 09:41
PM by shapeshifter
Do you think Liz can do it like in the books maybe? |
| Posted 02-14-2002 09:39
PM by shapeshifter
So am I the only one who was thinking that when Isabel and Michael were trying to find Max & Valenti that if this was in the books they would be able to sense that Max was using his power and be able to get there in time to collectively save everyone? |
| Posted 02-15-2002 04:40
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Do you mean, can Liz bring Max back when he dissolved, like in the books? Because if so, probably. I'm certain that he's not really dead, and I wouldn't be surprised if Liz's new powers help her bring him back somehow. |
| Posted 02-16-2002 10:23
PM by shapeshifter
Yes, that's what I was thinking--although maybe what she needs to gather him together is a dustbuster instead of special powers. The bright light and power when Max was "healing" the old guy was like the force of the stones activated by Elsivan Dupris in the books. I wonder what Melinda thinks of her work with the show this season with the poor ratings and the R*A*M*S "die Roswell die" campaign. [ 02-17-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
Posted 02-17-2002 05:38
AM by Anla
quote:
I think I had a very inappropriate response to Max's death scene. But I'm sure he's not really dead, so it's hard to get all worked up about it. It's not like when Alex or Adam died and I sobbed away. What are R*A*M*S? |
| Posted 02-17-2002 03:14
PM by shapeshifter
A Rath-Full Maiden ( I know that's not quite it ), Even though I tried to be spoiler free, there was a lot of talk about hoping they would kill Max by those who hate the character. R*A*M*S (R*os*we*l*l*a*t*e*m*y*s*o*u*l*.*c*o*m minus the "*'s" --FF censors it: I think because they have a message board, not because they are so angry) is a group that were originally dreamers, but, like jilted lovers, they are now rather murderous in spirt toward their ex-loves. Anyway, my take on Max's "death" was rather like a real-life sense of loss because it represents the possible death of the show, the sense of loss of 9/11 (the flag-draped NYC tells us it was shot post-9/11), the death of a "Saviour" type figure, and the loss of the youth of the actors--in books they can be Forever Young--like Nancy Drew, or Cherry Ames. If Liz brings back Max, that will be like in the books--which for me was a very satisfying ending. I still wish Melinda could rewrite them into a single volume--but again, because of the age of the heroes, the publishers will never take it seriously enough to encourage that. Maybe a total re-write with college-age (better make that grad school) Max & Liz would work. When I was in college, most of us did some sort of waitress type work at some time or other. |
| Posted 02-17-2002 05:56
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Thanks for answering that question. I was thinking that Max's "death" scene was rather interesting in that it was almost the opposite of Valenti's death in the books. In both cases, Valenti and Max were in some type of secret compound designed to investigate aliens. In the books, Max watches as Valenti dies and becomes ash, and then has to escape through a fire. In the show, Valenti watches as Max "dies" and becomes ash, and one would presume he will have to escape through the fire next episode. Of course, there is also a difference in the emotional aspect each scene seems to be aiming for: Book Valenti was the villain, while we're expected to have sorrow and sympathy for Max. [ 02-17-2002: Message edited by: Aratheraidwen ] |
| Posted 02-17-2002 08:00
PM by shapeshifter
Aratheraidwen, That is an AWESOME comparison! I had totally forgotten that Book Valenti was turned into a "pile of ash" --even though it was brought up in a later book, I think when Adam was 'under the influence' Liz was worried about Max being turned into a pile of ash? Too bad that Melinda doesn't check in here anymore, she would probably like to read that observation. I wonder if she noticed it too? Now that you mention it, Nasedo's demise was very similar to Book Valenti's in that an evil alien turned him to ash. Also, both Valenti & Nasedo turned out to be evil and/or murderous. |
| Posted 02-18-2002 03:25
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Yeah, I remember how nervous Max and Liz were of Adam after he killed Valenti, and before they learned that DuPris had been controlling him. And when Alex had to watch the unconscious Adam, he was very nervous that the alien would wake up and hurt him. Another similarity between Book Valenti and Nasedo - they were both people who the kids ought to have been able to trust and rely on (the sheriff, their alien protector) but who ultimately they learned they couldn't. Thank goodness that TV Valenti has proven to be more trust-worthy and loyal. [ 02-18-2002: Message edited by: Aratheraidwen ] |
| Posted 02-19-2002 07:11
PM by shapeshifter
Aratheraidwen (formerly known as Anla), Another good point. I suppose they morphed TV Valenti into a good guy because it would have been considered socially unconscionable (is that word even?) to do otherwise on primetime. BTW, did you know that Marshall MacCluan (probably spelled wrong) didn't say, "The medium is the message," but that he said, "The medium is the massage" meaning that the medium (TV, book) massages the message. Okay, no Roswell tonight. shapeshifter pulls down a post-it bristled book for a tidbit to share... In Book 10 Michael tries to "wean" Maria of her attachment to him when
he plans to leave Earth with his brother, but doesn't want to tell her.
Also, I think Book Maria would never have treated Book Michael the way TV Maria has treated TV Michael this season. But TV Michael is so diff than BMi, that it makes more sense. Actually TV Mi is more realistic for someone raised in foster homes than Book Mi. [ 02-19-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 02-21-2002 03:58
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Valenti's transformation on the show from enemy to ally was one of my absolute favorite parts of season 1. It was just done so gradually and so naturally that it felt right. I understood his motivations and why he was doing what he was doing, every step of the way. It was excellently done. (I'm a big TV Valenti fan ) Also, I've always felt that TV Michael was well-developed, too. I've always been able to understand him (well, that understanding has been challenged a bit a few times this season). There have been many many times when I've been frustrated by Michael's actions, and many times when I've hated things he's done, but I've been able to understand why he did it. And that's something I look for in a show - the fact that I can understand where a character is coming from and the feeling that they are consistent. TV Michael and Book Michael do have many differences. But while Book Michael felt neglected and unwanted by his foster parents, he wasn't actually abused like TV Michael was. So I guess he didn't grow up with the instinctive sense that humans were untrustworthy and were the enemy. While Book Michael was guarded emotionally and was suspicious of the humans until the first connection, it was nowhere near the level of distrust and suspicion TV Michael had. And I also agree that Book Maria would not be acting in the same way that TV Maria is right now. Actually, I have to admit that I'm having a hard time understanding many of TV Maria's actions right now. I really wish the show had spent more time leading up to the break-up and explaining it. [ 02-21-2002: Message edited by: Aratheraidwen ] |
| Posted 02-21-2002 06:18
PM by shapeshifter
Anla, ITA that what we saw on-screen of Maria leaves us sputtering "huh?" But I have no problem filling in the missing scenes in my mind, most of which would exist in Maria's mind as she feels she is too young to be tied down to Roswell and the "alien hootenanny." Over on the Transcripts: Explanation of Words thread, elenac posted this... quote:...to which I replied: quote:...and which reminds me of Maria singing in VLV. Okay, I'm stretching it. BTW. OT. I am very sad to hear about the death of Daniel Perl, but I am also glad that they cannot hurt him anymore and that his family does not need to be afraid for him anymore. |
| Posted 02-24-2002 06:15
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Oh, I totally agree that we can fill in the blanks in order to make the M&M break-up make sense. I can come up with an explanation that works for me, mostly involving Maria still reeling from Alex's death (which I don't feel the show has ever dealt with enough) and a fear of losing herself in her very intense relationship with Michael at such a young age. I just wish the show had led up to it better, and that they hadn't included the whole nonsense about Michael not really knowing her, which kind of negates the whole idea of the flashes scene from Departure and the idea that she can't be a singer when she's involved with him, when he's been nothing but supportive of that. But anyway.... I was rereading the first connection scene at the end of the first book (I love the connection scenes ), and noticed Michael's initial response. At first, he just wanted it over with, because it was way too intense for him. He hated having to deal with so much intense emotion. It reminded me of the show, when Michael hates it how things get "goopy" as Maria put it. Both Michaels hated letting people know what they're feeling, believing that it put them at a disadvantage and weakness, but both have learned to get better about it over time. |
Posted 02-26-2002 10:14
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Not necessarily: They show Maria 'seeing' Michael, but the only time I think Michael 'sees' Maria is in the eraser room (the sneakers and her dog). Plus, Maria says she hides herself. So maybe they are going there--or would be if UPN would show reruns of Roswell instead of BVP and now substitute pilots--which means no new viewers to watch what everyone was raving about . Anyway, about CDB: And even though not everyone gathered around Isabel (like they would have in the books), many did, and obviously if Liz had been there she could have healed Izzy (which speaks to the importance of the group). P.S. Just want to extend a welcome to any newbies. Aratheraidwen
(formerly Anla) and I will no doubt continue on, but we would
editing to add: [ 02-27-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 03-02-2002 05:24
PM by Anla
I wanted to add my welcome for any newbies/lurkers to shapeshifter's. We'd love to hear any new perspectives on the similarities and differences between our two Roswells. (A Tale of Two Roswells - maybe that should be our next thread title ) shapeshifter - But Michael says that one of the things he likes best about Maria is how open she is, and how he can always "see" her. This implies that he's had more flashes after the SH ones. And while Maria admits to lying and hiding from everyone, she says that Michael's the first one she doesn't do that with. I don't think you can lie or hide in the flashes anyway - they show your essential spirit and personality, which is why Max used that approach to convince Liz she didn't have to be afraid of him, that he was the same guy she'd known for years. So even if Maria wanted to hide her true self from Michael, or was hiding from herself, I don't think she could have kept it from showing through in the flashes. It's just one of the many problems I have with that particular storyline. But that's okay. I'm keeping faith that it shall be rectified to my satisfaction. Is it safe to assume that Max and Liz are back together again? I'm getting a little confused this season with who's currently going out with whom. Anyway, I have to agree with you about the similarities in CDB and the end of Book 10 when Liz saves Max. In both cases, her love was enough to find his spirit and bring him back. I loved how everyone (or at least everyone currently in Roswell) showed up to try and help Isabel. That was the spirit of the books. Kyle and Michael's scenes really touched me. And Isabel heard Michael and came back - that was nice, too. It reminded me of Book Michael sitting by Isabel's side when she was going through the akino. And I liked that little hint into what they were like when they were kids and first met, even though it made me hurt a bit for Michael and want to give him a hug (what episode doesn't make me want to give Michael a hug, though? ). So, I guess in the show Michael met Isabel first? I think he met Max first in the books. At any rate, he knew about Max being another alien first, because of the incident in class when they were talking about their teacher's aura. I was totally thinking of Puppet Adam when Clayton/Max was going after Liz and Maria. Especially when Clayton/Max was chasing Liz down the hallway. I was thinking about when Puppet Adam went on the rampage in the UFO Center, scaring poor Alex half to death. It was also similar to when the consciousness had control of Max, although I don't recall if he ever posed a physical threat to Liz. I know he hurt her emotionally, but I can't remember anything about physically. Well, looks like another excuse to get out the books and reread! While I'm thinking about it, could someone explain to me the significance of the title? I get that it's from a song, but I'm not familiar with it, so I didn't really understand the reference. I got the Diogenes one, though. [ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: Aratheraidwen ] |
Posted 03-05-2002 09:11
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Me too! I think Unconscious Max does sit up and talk to Liz once, but it's the CConsciousness, and does attempt to harm her, but she doesn't tell anyone because she doesn't want them to keep her away from him. But I REALLY need to look it up--somebody, please look it up for us .
quote:From http://www.bobmarley.com/songs/songs.cgi?chantbabylon : quote: |
| Posted 03-06-2002 07:05
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - I recall that the others didn't want to leave Liz alone with Consciousness Max, because they were afraid that he might be dangerous, but can't recall if there was ever an actual incident. Anyone remember one way or another? Oh, and thanks for the information on the "Chant Down Babylon" song. I'm still not sure I'm getting the point in the episode reference, but probably when I rewatch it, now having the background info on the song, it'll make more sense. |
| Posted 03-10-2002 03:27
PM by shapeshifter
I finally skimmed the last 2 books, and it seems that when Max's body is taken over by the consciousness he never threatens to hurt Liz physically, but when he breaks out of the consciousness long enough to kiss her (similar to the CDB) and then collapses on top of her, the friends come in on the scene and at first think he attacked her (but Liz says that he kissed her, much like in the show). There was definitely some anxiety though, that he could become violent, but the CC never did the way DuPris and Clayton did. |
| Posted 03-17-2002 02:48
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Thanks for looking that up. That's what I thought I remembered, but I wasn't sure. Not much new to say with no episodes to watch. When's the next episode? April sometime? |
| Posted 03-17-2002 10:37
PM by antarian_princess
I'm not sure if this has already been posted, but, what do you guys think about the fact that Max has white/blonde hair and peircing blule eyes in the books, but is like the total opposite in the tv show. I think since Max was such a serious character, and since people tend to take brunettes more seriously---no, actually it was probably the chemistry btwn JB and SA. |
| Posted 03-20-2002 07:05
PM by shapeshifter
antarian_princess, I was re-thinking that one too lately--wondering why they didn't at least either lighten JB's hair or darken KH's (earlier) so they'd look more like siblings. Anyway, I guess when they were casting, they didn't think it was important to follow the books--at least not physically. |
| Posted 03-21-2002 05:03
PM by Anla
Concerning Max's different appearances in the books and the show: It's interesting (well, for me at least ), but the first time I read the books, I pictured all of the characters the way they were described in the books, except for Max. I always pictured him as Jason Behr. I figured it was because Max was so much the same in the books and in Season 1 of the show. But when I reread the series a few months ago, after seeing season 2, I pictured Max as he was described in the books, blond and blue-eyed. I guess that was because Max has evolved in a rather different direction personality-wise on the show, at least enough that I now think of Book Max and TV Max as seperate characters in much the same way that I do the other characters in the books and show (they have similarities, but they're not the exact same). If that makes any sense to anyone besides me... |
| Posted 03-23-2002 07:12
PM by shapeshifter
Interesting... At first I found it very disconcerting trying to picture the book people and not the tv actors, so I finally gave in--except Maria--maybe because her character is the most different in the books and the show? Then, when I reread them more recently, I found I could picture them all as book people except Max. So I guess I'm a bit behind you, A. But I agree, whenever the book characters go off in a dif. direction than the show characters, I picture them as written. |
| Posted 03-24-2002 06:18
PM by Anla
Oh, and Valenti. I always picture him as he was in the show's pilot, right down to the intimidating sunglasses he was wearing. Because even after he became an ally to the kids in the show, he still wasn't someone you wanted to mess around with (I loved his speech to them all in Viva Las Vegas - one of my absolute favorite Roswell moments ). |
| Posted 03-24-2002 06:37
PM by *BehrSkinRug*
How many books are there. I've read up to 9 but I haven't seen any past that.
[ 03-24-2002: Message edited by: *BehrSkinRug* ] |
| Posted 03-24-2002 08:03
PM by Anla
BehrSkinRug - There are ten books in the original Roswell High series by Melinda Metz. The tenth book is entitled The Salvation (and is really, really good ). Then there are two books based on the tv show, Loose Ends and No Good Deed. Hope that helps. |
| Posted 03-28-2002 09:39
PM by shapeshifter
The new (non-Metz) Roswell book jacket is visible: IMAGE: images.amazon.com/images/P/0743418360.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg |
| Posted 04-04-2002 06:11
PM by Anla
Interesting title. Any information on what it's about? |
| Posted 04-05-2002 05:25
PM by shapeshifter
A, Actually, it sounds like it might really fit with some of today's current events. But Kyle is a friend and not an enemy like in the Metz books--which, BTW, I totally prefer. Although I think Nick is quite capable of playing an evil comedic Kyle too. quote: |
| Posted 04-05-2002 06:07
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Thanks for the explanation about the new book. That sounds like it might be interesting. Especially if they give Kyle a big part in the story. And Alex is still around - definitely a positive. I prefer Kyle as an ally for the group, too. Although I kind of liked how, in season 2, there was still some tension between Kyle and Max. Not because I wanted them fighting, so much, as because it seemed realistic to me. There was a lot of history there, and it made sense that it would take time for it all to be worked through. While in the book series, Kyle and Liz were never really dating, so Kyle didn't have any legitimate reason to dislike Max, I could understand why he would hold a bit of a grudge in the tv show. |
| Posted 04-13-2002 05:38
PM by Anla
Random thoughts: I was rewatching the prom episode the other day (love the M&M and Alex and Isabel parts of that episode), and was paying attention to the bowling alley scenes, since it mirrors the parts with Nikolas and Isabel in the books. But it's a human version of it. Instead of shooting down the aisles using their alien powers, they're sliding down in a very human way, in their stocking feet (which does look like fun, but with my luck, I'd end up sliding right into the bowling pins ). Then I was thinking about the scene in Surprise when Michael was making (or trying to make ), Isabel a birthday cake. And that reminded me of the scene in the books when Maria has Michael help her make a cake. So another instance of a scene from the books that is mirrored in the series, with some details changed (a tabasco cake - was Michael planning on not letting any of the non-aliens at the party eat the cake? They might have wondered about it ) All the aliens on the show, Podsters and Skins, seemed to share the same dietary quirks. Courtney liked the tabasco cake. I don't recall - did the books ever mention if DuPris had the same taste in foods as the others? I'd imagine he would, since he was the same species as they were, and it was supposed to be a genetic thing. Anyway, done rambling now. [ 04-13-2002: Message edited by: Aratheraidwen ] |
| Posted 04-13-2002 08:22
PM by shapeshifter
Aratheraidwen, I had noticed the bowling alley sliding similarity, but the cake scene had escaped my notice. I don't know about Book Dupris' eating habits, but it seems to me that he *notices* them eating the weird food combos. P.S.: Did you see this on Crashdown? quote:I'm wondering if the books will be more like the TV show, the Metz books, or the other Roswell novels that were produced to go with the show. [ 04-13-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 04-14-2002 06:36
AM by Anla
shapeshifter - Well, the cake scene in the books was a Candy scene, so I paid close attention to it. No, I hadn't seen that notice about more books. I've never been sure if the books based on the tv show are considered official canon or not. But if these books are going to be set between seasons 2 and 3, then I hope that they address some of the issues that haven't really been addressed on the show this season. (in particular, the emotional fall-out from Tess killing Alex) |
| Posted 04-17-2002 03:19
PM by shapeshifter
Okay, this post is in memory of the early days of this board when people would post nothing but the word "bump" with maybe a pinkie gif. Then we graduated to a little self deprecation with the disclaimer that the comment was little more than a "shameless bump." Around this time bumps were outlawed because they stressed the already (at the time) overloaded boards. Now we are at a moment in Roswell posting history when the keepers of the archives are judiciously bumping so as to not have to start a new thread for the last 4 episodes (perhaps ever ) of our soon-to-be, dear, departed loved one. So, what can I say? Has anyone out there read a good Roswell book lately? |
| Posted 04-22-2002 04:41
PM by Anla
Sorry - no new Roswell books read. Although the other day I was in the grocery store and I saw one of the Roswell High books with the original covers. Now, all the ones I have are the ones with the WB show covers. I was seriously tempted to buy it, but then I'd want to go searching for copies of all of the books with the original cover art, and then I'd have two copies of the same books, and I was afraid to let myself get started down that road. I know me and book obsessions, and that way madness lies. So I didn't buy it. I'm unspoiled for the rest of the season (I'm so proud of myself - it's a hard battle for me ), so I was just wondering what the finale is going to be like. Last season's finale had so many similarities to the final book of the Roswell High series. I wonder if there will be any similarities this time around. I just hope that the show gets a really good finale, something worthy of it. I have a wish list of things I want to see happen. Now I just have to see if they do. |
| Posted 04-23-2002 09:03
PM by shapeshifter
Aratheraidwen, Back when I was first buying the RH books, I could have had the original covers a lot cheaper than the remakes--too bad I didn't. In tonight's ep, WKAMYK, when Max is out walking at 2am, I wondered if they were referring to the books' alien sleeping habits in which they only had to sleep about 2 hours a night. |
| Posted 04-28-2002 07:59
AM by Anla
shapeshifter - I actually would prefer to have had the covers with the original artwork than the show pictures, but they were the only ones in the stores when I started to read the books. And then I had to have a matching set. I remember the scene at the start of the Hybrid Chronicles, when Max and Isabel are flipping through the tv channels, bored and unable to find something good to watch, and then Isabel goes off to dreamwalk. I always wondered if that scene was also referring to the fact that they were bored and up late at night because they didn't need that much sleep. And now we learn that Max is walking about town at all hours of the night. Of course, he has a lot to think about these days, what with the dying and coming back and all. |
Posted 04-28-2002 06:04
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Oh? I assumed he was just being a Lizaholic. Actually, he was probably fretting about warped Michael & freaked Jessie--both worries would be a good escape from thinking about his death experience (which he says to Liz & Michael was an experience he doesn't want to think about). BTW, this would make WDAMYK a sort of post-book 10 ep since Max sort of died in book 10. But when he came back then, Liz was NOT "cautious." Have you read THE DANCE script that Fraz & October typed up? It was supposed to air Season 1 instead of Leaving Normal. Everyone's been commenting on how it has a real "Season One" feel to it, but I thought it was more of a "Roswell High books" feel--except Kyle Valenti begins to show his sensitive side. This would be the opposite of both the books and Leaving Normal. [ 04-28-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 04-30-2002 09:01
PM by shapeshifter
I really must crash now (pun intended), but which book (I think maybe Loose Ends?) do they change the color of the car? Or is it in the Metz books too? |
| Posted 05-06-2002 01:43
AM by roswellian hybrid
i thought mickey could shapeshift after the last episode but it turned out to just be a mask! |
| Posted 05-06-2002 06:38
PM by shapeshifter
Good point, roswellian hybrid ! That was as close as they got to changing faces like in the book. It kept me wondering too. The guy who played the bad guy actually walked like Michael/Brendan when he was suppose to be wearing a mask. Actually, I think part of the time Brendan was wearing a mask. My daughter's reading the Metz books now. She pointed out that in the books they can all dreamwalk but only Max can heal. Also, in the books they do get into a little of the politics on the home planet, but no royal line. I prefer that, but maybe that's just my Western Hemispheric perspective. |
| Posted 05-06-2002 07:05
PM by Littlest Hobo
I loved the books. they were kind of short but it makes up for it because there are ten of them. I think I've only read 9 so far but I don't know which one I missed. I borrow them from the library and I don't think they have all of them so I bought the first and tenth books myself.. i'm working towards getting all of them. |
| Posted 05-07-2002 08:25
PM by shapeshifter
Littlest Hobo, I think Books 1 & 10 are the best. I think we all agree that the Pilot of the show is right up there, and if this week's ep is any indication, maybe the final episode of the show will be the best too. But I thought there were a lot of things in 4AAAB from the books. The big explosion with Tess' sacrifice was similar. And I got the impression she wasn't supposed to be totally evil, but more like book Michael's brother (with Nasedo like Dupris). But the mayhem in the opening scenes seemed like a Dupris-style action. I'm sure there were a lot of other similarities/contrasts in this ep. |
| Posted 05-12-2002 09:47
PM by maxcedo
shapeshifter's daughter has found a plot hole in book 8: Michael's brother is supposed to have memories of their Mom & Dad. But Michael came to Earth in his pod in 1947. So exactly how old is Michael's brother? |
| Posted 05-18-2002 07:57
PM by Larry Bradford
I have read all 10 books and see a parallel between them and the series. The one part that stands out for me is Isabel is madly in love with Nicholas. Valenti is absolutely brutal in the book version. I would like to see them make a movie from "Little Green Men". |
| Posted 05-25-2002 01:43
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - Max, a Lizaholic? Who, him? I was hoping that after everything that had been going on, that Max was thinking deep thoughts about how messed up everything was, and possibly how to make things better. And while he may not have wanted to think about the whole dying and coming back thing, that doesn't mean he wasn't thinking about it. But then again, Max has always been pretty good on the show at repressing unpleasant memories until such time as he erupts emotionally.
quote: That's cool. And I loved how all the aliens were able to dreamwalk in the books. But the other aliens were able to heal in the books. After Nikolas knocks Alex unconscious in the second book, Isabel heals him (and got flashes of the "Isabel shrine" in his memories). And when Maria runs away from Michael's apartment after learning that he's going to leave, she falls down the stairs and twists her ankle. She thinks about calling for Michael, knowing that he'd heal her. I can't remember if Adam healed or not, but I'd guess that if the others could, then he could. Maybe it's like in seasons 1 & 2, where the other could heal, but only little things (like Michael healing Riverdog's ankle and Tess healing Max's cut cheek), but Max had more strength in it? maxcedo - Trevor was definitely older than Michael. Good question about the ages, though. It would seem that the Roswell High aliens live longer than the average human. Larry Bradford - Valenti was really scary in the books, wasn't he? It's amazing to me how much I hate his book version, and love him in the show, but they both come from the same seeds. They were both trying to protect people from the aliens. But TV Valenti was able to look at things more clearly and eventually accept that things might not be the way he originally thought they were. I'm enough of a Stargazer to not think Isabel was actually in love with Nikolas in the books. But she was definitely crazy about him. There was lots of attraction, and she definitely liked the freedom he gave her to give in to her alien powers and to escape from her fear of Valenti and discovery. But I'm not sure she actually loved Nikolas, instead of loving what he represented (which is actually my thoughts towards Isabel's feelings for Jesse on the show). But that's just my take on it. |
| Posted 05-25-2002 02:09
PM by Larry Bradford
Aratheraidwen...Do you remember how funny it was when Isabel decided to "score" points with Alex's family. Alex was always trying to resist his father wanting him to join ROTC. Isabel respected him for this so she dressed her finest and it blew away his brothers who were in the military when they saw her for the first time. I sort of felt she was in a way trying to tell Alex's father that Alex had character. It's been awhile since I read the book but she topped herself since she was a little snobby at times. |
| Posted 05-25-2002 04:36
PM by Anla
Larry Bradford - Yes, I remember that part of the books. I loved the parts where Alex and Isabel were dating. They were so cute together. Thinking about the flashes Isabel got when healing Alex in the books makes me wonder again about what Isabel saw when she kissed Alex in Sexual Healing. She said she didn't see anything that related to "the current crisis". But did she see anything else? She certainly had a satisfied little smile on her face when she walked away from him. |
| Posted 05-25-2002 05:14
PM by Larry Bradford
Aratheraidwen..I haven't seen "Sexual Healing" but I need your opinion since it has been rattling inside my head for awhile. Would Roswell have been poisened or a damper so to speak if it was brought to the screen that Liz's sister Rosa overdosed on drugs? I dont think it would, it might have sent a quiet message to the teens. But I feel that Liz's over achievement on the series is a carry over from Metz. I liked Liz in book form but she seems to manipulative on screen. That's my opinion, in fact I enjoyed Michael in book form. Valenti is just, well, he makes Tess appear an angel compared to the book. For the record I began watching Roswell regularly the first episode she was in. |
| Posted 05-25-2002 07:17
PM by **That*Maria*Girl**
not just a dreamer page, its got all kinda info. |
| Posted 05-25-2002 08:08
PM by shapeshifter
Larry Bradford and Aratheraidwen, reading through your recent posts makes me realize how similar Isabel was at the end of both series in her romantic relationships, even with the differences of the marriage and with Trevor being an alien but Jessie a human. Also, book Valenti is very "2 dimensional," whereas TV Valenti grows (can we say 'morphs'? ) as a character. Larry, TV Michael's character is more scarred by his abusive childhood. |
| Posted 05-26-2002 11:26
AM by Anla
Larry Bradford - You never saw SH? Did you see any of the episodes before Crazy? Personally, I think it would have been a huge benefit to the show to have included the storyline about Rosa. It would have explained so much about Liz's character, why she feels the need to control things and always be perfect. The books did such a good job of explaining the characters and their motivations. Plus, it would have added something to Mr. Parker's reaction to Liz in Into The Woods (have you seen that?). I loved Michael in both the books and the show. There are differences, but fundamentally I think they're the same. Michael in the books was still always rushing to risk himself in order to protect the others, often doing impulsive things, because he felt that if one of the aliens had to be risked, it should be him. And he was loyal. But like shapeshifter pointed out, Michael in the show had a lot more issues with his childhood abuse. Book Michael may not have had the best childhood, but he didn't have Hank. shapeshifter - I hadn't considered that, but you're right. At the end of both the books and the show, Isabel says good-bye to the guy she's involved with (Trevor and Jesse). And in both cases, there's the potential for an eventual romance with a "friend" (Alex and Kyle). I've always felt that eventually, Isabel and Alex would have gotten back together in the books. I'm not sure about Kyle and Isabel in the show, but there's a possibility. [ 05-26-2002: Message edited by: Aratheraidwen ] |
| Posted 05-26-2002 09:06
PM by Larry Bradford
ARATHERAIDWEN..I've seen a few, but the episode that gave me anxiety was "Toy House". Isabel has always been close to her mother but in this episode she should have come clean and told her mother she was alien. Parents have an amazing capacity for protecting their children. When Valenti stopped by and began quizzing Isabel, then her mother stepped in and said what is this? I think that episode was when Agent Topolsky "raided" the Evans household. Isabel is more stable than I realized. School me if I'm wrong but didn't Michael turn to Isabel when he really needed help or guidance. The only exception I can think of is Isabel worried Michael might get into trouble using his powers. There is a closeness between them that cant be felt on human terms. They are human/alien and we dont have a clue as to what alien love is all about. It's as if this was contrived to keep us going to the boards for discussion. What a series! |
| Posted 05-27-2002 07:05
AM by Anla
Toy House was a really good episode. I remember how stunned I was by the ending scenes with Max and his mother. That episode really helped give me an understanding of the aliens' lives and their constant fear of discovery, even by their own parents (well, at least in Max's case - Isabel had no such fears back then). (I think that Topolsky had gone through their house to get the papers in the episode Riverdog) I always loved the close relationship between Michael and Isabel in the books and season 1 Roswell (sadly, it hasn't been shown on the show as much since the destiny situation arose on the show, although there were those hilarious Michael/Isabel scenes in ARCC when Isabel is helping Michael shop for Maria's Christmas present ). The two of them are family, and they really do love each other. My favorite part of the original book series was that theme of the power of the group's love for each other, how they were a family. Anyway, I remember how Michael was the one to take care of Isabel during her akino, and how desperate he was to help her. (Similar to Michael's scenes with Isabel after she was shot on the show) And one of my favorite Roswell moments from the show was in Blind Date, when Michael is saying how nobody ever comes for him, and Isabel just looks at him and tells him that she will always come for him whenever he needs her. [ 05-27-2002: Message edited by: Aratheraidwen ] |
| Posted 05-27-2002 01:47
PM by Larry Bradford
ARATHERAIDWEN...The series Roswell began with book 1 of Roswell High, as you know, but I dont know why JK would make a 90* turn in the other direction. In the book version, Isabel/Michael was a beautiful relationship on an alien level that we never could understand. It is possible that what we saw was romantic love on an alien level. Love may mean different things to an alien but what ever it is, it cant be bad. On TV, the producers seem to be aiming at a certain age group, therefore, the types of love between teens would need to be recognized. Strangely, the book version is wide open to thought. From the outside it would appear the books are written on comic book level but I've been put in my place. Melinda Metz thoroughly developed each character, not to an end but with just enough room for the reader to make his/her opinions as to what was happening. The only time I was lost was when Alex was lost in limbo and didn't know how to come back. He wasn't alien so this had to be the ultimate of all fears. The Roswell producers waited way to long to hire Melinda Metz to the writing crew. In my opinion this should have been done early in the 1st season. If she can do a masterful job in the books than just maybe, over the horizon, seeds for a Roswell type series could quietly be in the works. Jean Auel came out with a book 7 years after a long, long, time. I plan to re-read the book with Isabel/Michael and get a stronger handle on that relationship. |
Posted 05-27-2002 03:00
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Larry, by "comic book level" do you mean that initially you thought the characters were not "thoroughly developed" in the books, and now you do? I'm rereading them again--noticing things that I didn't get the first 2 times because I was so anxious to see what would happen next. things from book 1 "The Outsider"
AratheraidwenAbout the Kyle-Jessie-Isabel thing: I think the end would have been better if Jessie had gone with them, or at least planned to finance their lives. Of course, I guess they can 'change 1's to 100's' as Isabel suggested to finance her trips home from college in San Francisco. Anyway, I wasn't too happy with that ending--but if there was a continuation, I suppose Isabel could dreamwalk Jessie. [ 05-27-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 05-27-2002 06:03
PM by Larry Bradford
SHAPESHIFTER....I walked the bookstore trying to find the books. I was all over the Sci-Fi/Fantasy section but I gave up and asked a store clerk. She said I would find them in the young teen section. I'm a parent with a grown son, so with no knowledge of the writer I just gambled that I would be entertained. I gathered all of the titles they had, went home and began reading them out of order. These books flow and should be read in order. There were very young girls sitting in the floor reading Roswell High. I was expecting something very simple but was totally surprised at the depth Melinda Metz used in developing the characters. Her writing is better than the 3 books since released. The difference is, in the new 3 books, the author takes your hand and walks you through but in the original 10 something new is always taking the reader by surprise. The reader has to think his way through the book. I've read a lot of the classics but her writing is good and in no way comic book style. The book version of Isabel/Michael is deep, real deep. Read all 10 in order, you'll love them all....and reread them. |
| Posted 05-27-2002 07:25
PM by quickdraw
I have been reading into this discussion about the books and the TV series and wanted to add that Milinda's books although sold to a teen aged audience has like me drawn very many adults also. LarryBradford your comments are so very intriging as to the relationships of the teens and their way of working out their friendships and loyality to one another. Although I really loved the TV version of the sheriff (I am a Bill fan as you have guessed) the book version of him was very evil and definately a scarry individual. I have gone back to re-read the stories in order and just in my own outlook there was alot of things that the show could have followed throuth with that would have drawn more interest and viewers When the show was airing I felt the need to express in my way of what the show ment to me so I began sketching out the story characters from the series and now with my re-reading the books again,the descriptions of many of the characters are so much different(Max has blond hair and blue eyes as one example) that I find myself creating another set just to compare. |
| Posted 05-27-2002 07:39
PM by shapeshifter
Larry, I agree that even though the reading level of the books isn't very high, the author(s) explore very complex social, psychological, and ethical issues. The vehicle of the auras in the books for these purposes is very creative. As to the bringing of Metz into the Roswell TV writers fold, I can't
help wondering (warning: conspiracy theory zone approaching), if it wasn't
to prevent her from demanding royalities on all the stuff from books 2-10
that was incorporated into the TV show when they had only bought the
rights to Book 1. BTW, I originally purchased the books when I was a high school
librarian. Although I did catalog the books and add them to the Library's
collection, we all know my real reason for buying them.
And you really haven't seen Sexual Healing? Let's just say it was too much too soon--an impossible act to follow, and a little embarassing for the viewer. IMO, it would have been more appropriate for the end of the first season--or maybe even the second. |
| Posted 05-27-2002 07:44
PM by AlienPrincess47
The collective sonciousness would nave been a good plot line and there was a rumor early when we didnt know the fate of roswell that In season 4 they were going to introduce the plot but as we know it didnt happen ... but the collective would have added more info to the story but of course they were just based on the books they werent the books but I think they shoukd base a movie on them or something maybe a backround to Roswell after roswell. |
| Posted 05-27-2002 08:33
PM by Larry Bradford
I love this thread, to have seen every Sci-Fi series on TV back to Captain Midnight and this series caught me and sometimes I feel foolish trying to convince someone of a thought. I dont have to here. Without our different opinions we would be in quicksand. As a parent I wouldn't mind having any of the alien teens for a son or daughter, I would protect them to the death. The writers flat blew this series, there are some of us older people who enjoy this. The relationships between a parent/teen are complicated at best. At least Jim Valenti was allowed to help the teens on TV and as everyone saw he lost his job for his actions. I wonder if the aliens realized he gave up his life work to protect them. In the end he was still protecting them. Being a deputy again, he could monitor any police activity that may beheading toward the VAN SIX as I now call them since the group is one. |
| Posted 05-28-2002 05:33
AM by quickdraw
Bravo Larry!!! your thoughts in the last comment were right in key So many of the adults in the TV show were "out there somewhere" and were shown to be so unaware of what thier children were doing and all. Parents of Max and Isabel heck they were Lawyers and I would have given them more credit to knowing about their kids, the only time that they might have got to know about their kids was in earlier show like "the toy house" and when Max had to see a psychiatrist at the beginning of season 2. Liz's parents were also shown as "in a bubble" by not wanting to know about what their daughter was doing. In the books about Liz's parents they really delt with the father of Liz, and his worries of her direction of following in her sister's path and die in a drug overdose( read earlier in this link that some also felt that they should have shown this also in the TV series toutching on to the drug issues). Maria's mom was so much "doing her own thing" much like the books and in TV also and would have been great to toutch on the story of Maria's father that had deserted them. Michael's foster situation his "parent" was so tough on him that we could see how Michael's situation shaped his strong individual emotions that was shown on TV and into the books also. In the books Alex's dad was so military and is a big part of the books, on TV Alex's dad seemed weak and not sure of himself, especially when the camping trip came up and we got to see him for the first time. I don't know why the writers chose to go in this direction with Alex's dad but if they would have stayed with the book version there would have been more stories that would have involved Alex instead of the few times we did get to see him on the show. The sheriff and his relationship with his son is so different in the books. In the TV version they did show that he was the one parent that did find out what his son was up to and gave us a clue to his personality and drew him into the story also. But in the books they showed Kyle going insane and locked away(thanks to a few words from Liz). |
Posted 05-28-2002 06:22
PM by shapeshifter
quote:If they can't get the original actors for a movie, they could certainly base a movie on the books--maybe even a blond haired, blue-eyed Max. quickdrawI have 3 daughters now aged 23, 19, and 13, and I thought the show's portrayal of the adults was pretty realistic. We didn't see a lot of them because of screen time limits and because the show has always been about the teens' perspective. I'm re-reading book 2 now, and just caught a hilarious CHAD: On page
101, Max is dressed in a white, sequined Elvis jumpsuit (that alone is
pretty funny if you picture Jason Behr in it ), then, by the bottom of
page 105, he and Liz are hopping in the Jeep to go find Isabel--and he
hasn't changed clothes. Actually, picturing Liz showing up to talk about a
life & death situation with someone dressed like Elvis without even a
comment about the clothes is a riot. |
| Posted 05-28-2002 07:59
PM by Larry Bradford
QUICKDRAW, I thought it was very interesting the Jim Valenti/Amy De Luca relationship in S2. The writers could have done alot with this and take the pressure off of the teens. In the books Michael was driving out into the desert searching for clues to the whereabouts of the ship that brought them to earth. I may have missed it but how does he know that the ship is out in the desert? |
| Posted 05-28-2002 08:08
PM by quickdraw
This thread is so interesting to read other's ideas of the books and the TV show Shapeshifter yes, I do remember the way the "Elvis" Max was wearing and I thought It was funny too I also enjoyed the character Ray and his humor, he really knew how to run a UFO museum and what would draw in visitors |
Posted 05-28-2002 08:13
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Author omnicient keeps hammering home that the alien teens figured that the govt. wouldn't have moved the ship too far from the crash site. I have to admit that having the ship wind up in a hollywood backlot was pretty creative--Secrets & Lies and Control were pretty good eps-largely because of the actor who played the other shapeshifter. |
| Posted 05-28-2002 08:33
PM by quickdraw
Shapeshifter,your mention of the spaceship in "secrets & Lies" brings up a question to me. How many space ships are there now in the Roswell story? was the one in the basement of the liquor store the same one in the Hollywood connection? The Roswell books mentioned that there was one only in the story or perhaps I am getting this wrong. Larry Bradfors's comment made me think about this, it may not be important but I would like to hear your comment |
| Posted 05-29-2002 09:44
AM by shapeshifter
quickdraw, my take on the TV spaceship count was one, but there was plenty of viewer complaining about the CHAD of moving it out of the convenience store basement to hollywood so easily. (see the Archives and search for "spaceship"). Of course, given the flexibility of Hal's piece of the ship in SO47, it's possible. In the books it was compactable too. |
| Posted 05-30-2002 08:18
PM by Larry Bradford
I love this thread and would hate to see it slip away but readers cant stand up to special effects very well. Our creations are mind driven and not with computer graphics. If you cant find certain Roswell High books go to http://www.abebooks.com/ and just type in Melinda Metz. Order on line. If you hate Jim Valenti as a good guy on the series, read the books and prepare for a brutal, vicious, ride. If you are a little bored check out Adam, an alien who has a crush on Liz. Have to head back to book #5 and catch more of Isabel/Michael. |
| Posted 05-30-2002 09:41
PM by shapeshifter
Larry, In case you didn't notice, the firstCompare & Contrast Books & Show thread and the secondCompare & Contrast Books & Show thread are linked from the Theories Threads Archives. And speaking of Isabel, in book 2 (the book that focuses on her), page 122 sure seems like the inspiration for the scene from the Dupes' episodes in which Isabel is out jogging & Max pulls up in his jeep in a mega-confrontational manner. In the book, she goes running after the confrontation with Michael & Maria, and it is Nikolas who zooms up on his motorcycle as part of his whole controlling-trip relationship with her. And of course, let us not forget that Nikolas in the show was evidently very much involved with Vilondra. I'm no longer sure which is more realistic, and which is Bizarro Roswell. And of course, there is the alternate (or is it the real world) of the actors in which the roles of siblings are exchanged for more than 'just friends.' |
| Posted 05-30-2002 10:14
PM by Larry Bradford
Shapeshifter, Ididn't know about those other threads...thanks. |
| Posted 06-01-2002 03:36
PM by shapeshifter
Larry, Aratheraidwen, Quickdraw, or anyone else out there who has read Books 2 & 3: I am in the middle of rereading Book 3, in which Maria explores the power of the ring, and am wondering if part of Nikolas' 'unearthly' hold on Isable came from the power of the ring. |
| Posted 06-01-2002 08:41
PM by Larry Bradford
SHAPESHIFTER....I had problems with the ring, it seemed to me that a ring with that much power could only be used by aliens. I've struggled with the thought that the ring, used corrctly, might lead as a doorway to the collective conscience. The critics say the reading level of these books is 9-12, but I defy any one of them to explain some tough inroads. Melinda Metz didn't write these books to be tossed when read. Some how she worked her magic and I'll never let go of them. Let me get back to you on this, unless some one has the answer. |
| Posted 06-01-2002 09:29
PM by quickdraw
Hi, just throwing my opinion in also. In The Seeker book 3, the danger of the ring was ever explained as a magnet to the person and the beings of the rings power. When Isabel was attracted to Nikolas, It may have been just an "alien " attraction and not the power of the ring. Isabel was attracted because of the excitement he represented,going out of the good girl image she always seemed to portray and it seemed exciting to her |
| Posted 06-01-2002 10:13
PM by shapeshifter
Thanks for the feedback, Larry & quickdraw. Metz never states that the ring attracted Isabel, but if she had said it contributed to her attraction to Nickolas, it would have fit in with Isabel's behavior. For that matter, did we ever know for sure if tv Isabel was attracted to the Gandarium Queen Bee Jelly Fish in Grant? There's a lot of stuff in Book 3 that is mirrored in the show. Michael shows Maria the piece of the spaceship, which is described exactly as it is in SO47 when Hal shows it to Michael. Does anyone know if the original Roswell Incident Lore includes such a piece of indestructible substance? Also in Book 3, Ray encourages them to claim Earth as home, much like Kal in Secrets & Lies and Control. I wonder if Metz had a hand in defining Kal's character. |
| Posted 06-01-2002 11:21
PM by Larry Bradford
SHAPESHIFTER...check my profile. There was a piece of foil like metal that would withstand any test. The most amazing feature of this is it could be crumpled into a ball and placed on the table and it would open up, flaten out, not leaving as much as a crease. Twelve year old Frankie Rowe was the point of this. She played with the material as a child would. But things changed when the old AAF appeared. An interrogation officer started in on her. She insisted that she saw this material, they said you never saw it. This went back and forth for awhile until he drew his stick and slammed it into his hand repeatedly. Towering over her he paused, "You know, there's more than one thing that we can do to shut you up. First we can kill you and all of your family, and we will take you out here in the middle of this big desert and bury your body. Nobody will ever find your bones, ever". Imagine a 12 year old girl being threatened in this manner. She remained silent for 30 years. I've seen her in interviews and she trembles and tears start. I've seen this. If you would like to know more The UFO Museum in Roswell bought the back issues titled "Children of Roswell" from UFO Magazine. I interviewed Walter Haut for 2 days, and Glenn Dennis for part of a day. They have told me things that aren't in print anywhere. It took me 2 years to get to interview them. I've been researching the disappearance of the nurse for a year now. This also is in Summer of 47. |
| Posted 06-02-2002 05:58
AM by quickdraw
Larry Bradford thanks for the information. there is so much about the Roswell Crash in 47 that was incorporated into the Roswell TV show (summer of 47)that I too felt that Hal was shown as someone that was was not inclined to talk about what went on then The fact that even if he told someone( some high school kid from Roswell)it would be a far fetched story they would not believe him anyway. In the interviews that you described in the UFO magizines and the interviews you had with Walter Haut and Glenn Dennis sound very interesting and would be interested in knowing more about them. |
| Posted 06-03-2002 09:13
PM by shapeshifter
In Book3, especially pages 154 ff., Maria's use of the stone alerts the "Bounty Hunter" aliens to the podsters location. This is very similar to the orbs going off at the end of Season One. Is this a common plot device in Sci Fi Space Operas? |
| Posted 06-05-2002 04:10
AM by quickdraw
Shapeshifteryour comment is so very true about this being a common plot used in TV/Movie plots I loved the show "the Visitor" starring John Corbet of Northern exposure he had a simular device that alerted the "elders" or in his case was one of the fellow abductees of their group. |
| Posted 06-05-2002 05:48
PM by Anla
Hi! Larry Bradford - I completely agree with you about Michael and Isabel having a beautiful relationship based on a deep love. I don't personally think it was a romantic love, based on the fact that they tried kissing in the books and neither were impressed with it, but that's just my feelings on the subject. And who knows what might have happened if they had grown up on their home planet, rather than earth? We really don't know much about relationships among the aliens, except that their children are in pods before they're born. Which makes me wonder - how human are the aliens in the books? I mean, they can turn their outward appearance to be human. That's their "natural" state from the time when they get out of the pods until they learn to shapeshift - "natural" in that they don't actively try to look like a human rather than a grey alien(which is only another adaptation, anyway), it just happens as their body's adaptation to life on earth. So, their outward appearance is human, but what about their internal physiology? Is it human, too? On the show, it is, but on the show they're not pure aliens. They're alien-human hybrids. Hmm.... I've never really thought about that before. I wonder if they can have children with humans. Isabel seemed to hope that she and Jesse would be able to someday on the show (she tells Alex that if she ever had a son she would call him Alex), but what about the aliens in the books? shapeshifter - I found their plan to get Valenti off their backs in the book to be way more logical than the one in the show. You know, the first time I saw the pilot, I was so involved in the emotions of the characters that I didn't notice how the plan really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I didn't really notice that until my second time watching it. Or maybe Valenti in the show is just a whole lot smarter than in the books? (Actually, I think that is true, but it doesn't change the fact that the book plan was better, I think) I have to admit to being glad Isabel left Jesse behind, even though a small part of me knows that's wrong. I mean, they are married and everything. But considering the huge problems I had with Isabel marrying Jesse, for oh-so-many reasons, and the way that the storyline bored me all season - well, I was okay with him not going off in the Mystery Van. Interesting question about Nikolas using the ring to have a hold on Isabel in the books. I always figured that it was just that Nikolas was another alien, one that Isabel didn't view as a brother and one who encouraged her rebellion against Max and Michael. But she never displayed anything other than rather maternal tendancies towards Adam, so maybe. Of course, Adam didn't have a motorcycle. I still think that part of Isabel's interest in Grant was that she recognized something alien about him (the giant flying jellyfish ). I never trusted Grant, not from the start. I suspected something was up with him. The way that Isabel warmed up to him so quickly was just too similar to the way she warmed up to Tess right away, and that was because Tess was another alien. So I figured there was an alien component to her interest in Grant. Isabel takes time to trust and let people in (although she never did really trust Grant completely - as she told Max, she was capable of dating someone without telling him their alien secret). [ 06-05-2002: Message edited by: Aratheraidwen ] |
| Posted 06-05-2002 08:49
PM by Larry Bradford
Not to break the train of thought but anyone who likes Alex and Tess will find they are alive and well in the 3rd Roswell installment after the original 10. Check out "Little Green Men". |
| Posted 06-07-2002 10:48
AM by Anla
Has anyone read Little Green Men yet? Is it any good? I didn't like the two other ones based on the show anywhere nearly as well as the original series (although I did like No Good Deed much better than Loose Ends - I felt it did a better job of including all the characters). So I was just wondering if it was worth getting or not. (Who am I kidding? If it's Roswell-related, I'll buy it. ) |
| Posted 06-07-2002 05:00
PM by quickdraw
I have read "Little Green Men" and I thought it was good. It had alot of interactions of the characters much like the Roswell High books. It was told the LA party this May that more books are now in the process of being written. Melinda has another series called "fingerprints" and I have also started to read those too. I enjoy her style of writing and the characters she developes in her stories. |
| Posted 06-08-2002 06:54
AM by Anla
quickdraw - Thanks for the information. My favorite part of the original Roswell High series (and Season 1 and parts of Season 2 of the show) was when the emphasis was on them as a group of friends, solving problems together. So I'm glad to hear that the new book has more interaction among the different characters. |
| Posted 06-08-2002 11:50
AM by quickdraw
Aratheraidwen, I agree with what you say, the friendship of the group is what I enjoy the most. S1 was great about showing this as each episode went on thru the season. As we learned more of the way they all worked out problems we also began to discover things of their past. Max saving Liz, and then Liz saving Max from the sheriff was one example of them working together. In Independence Day, we discovered Michaels home life and alot of his past and how bad it was for him growing up as he suffered beatings and how with the friends he was able to stand on his own. Also in S1 on the Blind Date when Max wanted to not feel the pain of not having Liz,he got drunk with Kyle and then we heard what Max really kept hidden inside as he followed his friends advice(Kyle's) and ran away with Liz and when they were on stage and he kissed her letting go of any emotions he held back from her. so many more examples that I loved in S1 that seemed to also follow in all 10 of the Roswell High books that when S2 began that I started to see the breaking up of the characters and of this friendship in episode after episode and towards the end of the season there was so much mistrust upon the group I felt it had lost alot of the greatness that the show first started with. Season 3 is to hard on my concept of this friendship also, Liz holding a Gun? totally out of character for her. Her friendship with Maria also suffered thru S3 as she wanted "something else" in her life. But when the episode of Four Aliens and a Baby was aired I started to feel once again the working together of the group of friends as they were there for each other |
| Posted 06-09-2002 11:56
AM by Larry Bradford
The collective conscience intrigues me and I really need your input on this. When the presence contacts Max he can hardly believe it, it is his parents but they are dead, still the aura is there and they can communicate. Suppose that same CC were part of the series on TV. Couldn't Max have been able to contact his father for advice? I would have liked to see this. We all need fatherly advice from time to time and this aspect of Roswell High really puts it over the top in my opinion. Maybe Max talking with the dead would be too much for the audience but I give the teens alot more leeway on instinct. Question as should Michael and Isabel be together would at least point in a direction. I think the deceased parents would be incredibly wise in some areas to the point that Max's father might say, "Follow your heart". The writers wrote in a shot gun manner, leaving us in the dark, with no goal at the end of the season. Writing from the hip as if the audience wouldn't pay attention to details. I like pulling the good from the books to make an episode clear. Help! |
| Posted 06-09-2002 07:33
PM by quickdraw
In the books, the collective conscience did play a big part. In Season 1 the show "Destiny" had a recorded image of the mother and would have been a great addition to the series if they included the image again especially when "Isabel's Birthday", and she was so lost, she wanted her Mother to give her some advice. |
Posted 06-09-2002 09:04
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Aratheraidwen, I was intensely disappointed when they started the whole 'hybrid' concept on the show. IMNSHO, THAT was as much the cause of viewer discontent as the advent of Tess, The Terrible. I thought having them be "real" aliens in the books gave the series value in terms of issues of diversity and acceptance. Eventually I accepted that change on the show, and I now think it too allows for the diversity issue with a more complex spin. But the writers on the show never blatantly explored that topic. But perhaps that's the whole point--it wasn't necessary to shout it out.
quote:Like the comment on fatherly advice. Mine is visiting right now. And Happy Father's Day in advance to any who are reading. About the CC and contacting the dead parents: In the books, those who joined the CC basically lost all individuality, so it seemed no longer possible for Max to "truly" commune with his parents. That was rather sad and was an early indication that all was not well with the CC. I do think Melinda left a bit of a CHAD hanging with regards to Ray & the CC. Didn't he join as a youth? And yet he kept his individuality, and didn't seem to think it was a problem. But yes, I have always wished the CC was part of the TV show, and
thought that mindwarping Tess was supposed to be the substitute--even
though the show was not supposed to have used more than Book 1 for Seasons
1 & 2. quote:I like that idea, quickdraw. But I one of those who thinks that JK intended that to be a mindwarp. I guess we'll never really know unless he tells the world. In the books, Ray does the hologram of their parents, which is a lot like the Mommogram in Destiny. Again, I wonder if Tess and her mindwarps were inserted to avoid copyright infringement on the non-Book 1 material. Also, Tess was "the 4th alien" (according to a JK interview), and with limited budget, had to fullfill all the plot devices generated by Book Nickolas, Adam, and Trevor. Hmmm, I guess we could say Nasedo was to Tess, what book Valenti was to Adam. ******************** In Book 4, The Watcher, Max's eyes roll back to show white when he starts the akino, much like Michael's did when the Indian sweat effected him. Then on page 91, when the group is trying to help Max make the
connection to the CC with their connection: "He could actually feel the
synapses firing their electric currents. Firing again and agian, trying to
keep up with the demands of all the information. Electrifying his brain.
Max stretched open his mouth and screamed." |
| Posted 06-10-2002 12:06
AM by Larry Bradford
SHAPESHIFTER...You really framed the CC logically. Spock would have been proud. The concept of mindwarping as a shadow of the CC is brilliant. I hated the Hybrid Chronicles, the only episodes I haven't seen twice. Why in the world would they have 4 episodes of the HC and only 2 of the Dupes. I feel the Dupes were extremely important to the Roswell mythology. I'm probably in the minority but I still find the Michael/Isabel relationship interesting. There are so many possibilities and the love is not defineable. I feel it is very deep, a carry over from Antar. This is one thread I enjoy, and I now realize why Melinda Metz wrote this way. Young teens need food for thought but I need it worse than them. No matter what a book critic may think, these are thought provoking and I read them looking for that one crumb or Rosetta stone that would unlock the underlying meanings throughout the books. |
| Posted 06-11-2002 05:10
AM by quickdraw
When you mentioned book 4 The Watcher, (it had been a while since I read it) you reminded me of Max's experience of the Akino so simular to the pain Max suffered in the White Room like you said. It seem to me the exploration of what is going inside the mind was a story within itself that I know they could have incorporated it into the show much more than they did. Just as Max might have placed a memory into little Zan in the ep of FA&B, Zan's father could have also given a memory to him also when he was on Antar? Also when the episodes of the Dupes showed us the way Humans are taken and used for a time. I would like to have Max learn more from Brodie/Larric when he was with him about his past. We get hints thru the show but it would still have been great if Max could have been able to recall much more. Just as Max in the stories he was able to talk to his parents when in this state of Akino, we could have also learned more about Zan and what went on at his planet,the struggles of his reign of power,the conflicts he endured, and what led to the death of him and the others. |
| Posted 06-11-2002 07:52
AM by shapeshifter
Larry, I didn't like the Hybrid Chronicles either, for a number of reasons. But I am planning on rewatching the tapes this summer, so perhaps 'absence will make the heart grow fonder?' I originally didn't like Toy House, but on subsequent viewing I appreciated it. Thinking about the Isabel/Michael relationship in the books--I think the closest we saw to it in the show was the way Michael 'brought her back' after she was shot. I recall as a young woman that I tended to have guy 'friends' and 'lovers' that were almost never the same person. I think this is common with older teen females that are just discovering an area which they have long considered taboo. The ideal would be that it was one person. If the show went on, pehaps Kyle & Izzy? Especially if he developed 'powers,' which would give them that 'special bond.' quickdraw, The White Room, The Balance, and Panacea-WDAMYK each
seem to incorporate parts of the Akino and the Compound Imprisonment from
the books. Again I want to ask (especially about the Season 1 eps before
Metz was part of the TV team): are these common themes in Sci Fi? I think
yes, but don't have any concrete examples. [ 06-11-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 06-11-2002 06:25
PM by Larry Bradford
SHAPESHIFTER, why do you think JK intended the momogram to be a mindwarp? I remember Nasedo advising against puting the ORBS together since it would signal the alien's enemies. If it were a mindwarp would it have been done by Tess? Could this be the reason the momogram is rarely mentioned throughout S2? I like the SciFi aspect of Roswell and at no time did I feel it was a hinderance. I'm lame but I sincerely believed the Destiny Book. Somehow, someway, I need closure to the Antar paradox. They were here on a life and death mission and I'm bothered that they did not carry out their responsibilities. We need a "Battle Beyond the Stars" just to clear up the Antar issue. I'm so lame, here I am worrying over a story but I can see real life possibilities on screen and in the books. I cant help liking Tess, she crackels on the screen and I would really like to have seen Michael/Isabel and a slow moving relationship. I dont believe she would pull a Vilandra on us twice. At present I'm in the Intruder, just have to mull over the CC even though their individuality is somewhat missing. I've started ordering the old Roswell High series on line and they are really tough to find in fine or mint condition. If anyone is interested in owning a good copy that is much easier to locate. There are 5 in the Archway series and the books dont have the actors on them. Actually, they are mysterious looking, and look very good. |
Posted 06-11-2002 08:16
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Just time for a quick reply: the direction of the actors and the subsequent revelations about Tess bring me to that conclusion. But I'm not sure that ALL of it was a mindwarp.
quote:Check out bookfinder.com |
| Posted 06-12-2002 04:26
AM by quickdraw
Shapeshiftertried to dust of the cobwebs of my mind that has past movies and try to come up with some possiable "Space opera story plots" that were simular to the use of the CC or a device to communicate with the past. The comic book version and later the movie about Superman seemes to be one posibility of that use of story plot. Perhaps maybe another use of communication was in the movies that delt with a visitor from other planets, I am not sure maybe Starman, or E.T. there are alot of possiabilities. In TV I am sure there are many examples also, Earth's Final conflict when a hibred is also able to communicate with his parent in second season( or 3 I am not sure). The search oes on... but you are right about it being a common plot. Maybe you could think of others? I have another question about the Dupes in New York. their pods were left in the underground city and the other shapeshifter was (Hal?) was he there when the pods opened. I don't recall the comments said in the show but maybe you could find out and what of this programmed loyality Hal spoke of in Max's conversation with him in Hollywood. Wouldn't Hal also have had that loyality to Zan in New York? and why were they alone when he was off in Hollywood working behind the scenes of movies? cheesy question I know but it's a conversation starter |
| Posted 06-12-2002 07:17
PM by shapeshifter
Ooo quickdraw, no kidding about the conversation starter. And here I am just 'peeking' at the boards when I am supposed to be getting ready for a trip.
Larry, about the Michael/Isabel thing: I thought maybe they would go there on the show with Alex dead & Maria dissing Michael, but it never happened, and I think Isabel was too upscale for the likes of Michael on the show. In the books, Michael wasn't quite so crude, but Metz didn't see fit to pair them. |
| Posted 06-12-2002 08:54
PM by quickdraw
Hmmmm...That's a story plot that I didn't think of, thanks Shapeshifter "You have a safe trip now...and keep that UFO under warp 7 ok?..." |
| Posted 06-13-2002 01:22
AM by Larry Bradford
QUICKDRAW.....Nasedo kidnapping Tess? Why would he do it and what would be the reason for the double-cross? This has me wondering if the 2 white light beings in "Summer of 47" were Hal and Nasedo? It might be Nasedo discovered that the dupes(Zan) didn't have the royal seal stamped in is brain and the true royal 4 were in Roswell. Would it be safe to say he was angered and didn't want to spend the rest of his life protecting something of no value? It seems to me the dupes were abondoned but not before Nasedo taught them how to use their powers. |
| Posted 06-13-2002 06:12
AM by quickdraw
Yes, It does get you to thinking about the pod's protector's of Summer of 47' episode the one in NY and the one in Ros. During the time of both pods incubation and Hal and Nasedo each tried to blend in with our planet. Hal became a big shot in the Hollywood society (I am sure many of those who work in the industry would claim that their boss is an alien ) and Nasedo (whom knew about the NY4 and waited for the Ros4 pod's occupant's to open only to find out that he was too late for their opening) remained in the Indian res. area. Larry, I too think that Tess was an important part of the story,and when they chose Emilie to play her part I thought it was a good match. Tess was with Nasedo because he was the one she needed to be with during that time. She always seemed to not agree about what Nasedo did but he was her guardian as they looked for the idenity of the true royals. It explains maybe that for many times Nasedo had left Emilie on her own, as she said to Max, he (maybe?) could have been in contact with the NY4 working with them also,showing them uses of their powers. This is real interesting, Tess and Ava both are interesting to the story, and what ever happened to her? When she left Liz at the end of the story, she never came back to Roswell to see Liz. I would like to have her character appear again. |
| Posted 06-14-2002 08:13
PM by Larry Bradford
QUICKDRAW....Do you think a number of people on the boards have read the books? On another thread someone mentioned she had read them all and I am a little curious as to why more people dont post here. This is some of the best thought provoking material I've come across. Is it our ages or what? I wish we could put more blood into this thread. I've gone back through some of the old posts and we need these people back. I have a new book for you to read. "Invisible Residents" by Ivan T. Sanderson, 1970. It deals with underwater UFO's and the information was released by the US Naval Institute. You cant get more official than that. I'm pondering auras, like what color would mine be? |
| Posted 06-15-2002 06:00
AM by quickdraw
LARRY, Thanks for the head's up on the book "Invisible Residents" I sounds like one I definately want to get. The underwater research has been an interest to me same as NASA and its exploration of space also. Back in 91' I bought a book written by astronaut Scott Carpenter, a novel he had written called "The Steel Albatross" It was fiction but alot that was in the story I wondered if it was some of the actual events that may have and still is going on underwater. Scott Carpenter was a navy seal in Korea, a test pilot, and was chosen for space flight in 1962 Aurora 7( the second American to orbit the earth) and was chosen to be leader of the SEALAB II program spending 30 days on the ocean floor, and later chosen in 1969 for SEALAB III as Director of Aquanaut Operations. His background intrigues me and what projects are going on now would be an interesting read. As to your other question why others don't post and express their outlook of the Roswell Books and the show I hope they will join in also..all ideas are great for discussion Now, back to one other question about...Pondering Auras...Hmmmm lets see. As I re read Roswell book 1 Metz writes she refers to Max's view of Liz as a warm rich amber (pg. 11) that made him want to wrap himself up in it. When she was shot the amber went to a brown color and was fading to black. Everyone's life force does give of certain colors as a matter of heat and radience,science has proven that with instruments and such. But "our" aliens could see this color and Metz incorporated into their ability to see these with their own eyes. I would guess LARRY that your Aura would be...Yellow with Purple incorporated into it because of your quest for knowledge and information. |
| Posted 06-15-2002 07:39
AM by Larry Bradford
QUICKDRAW...your priceless, made my day with the aura. I would have liked the characters to have had auras but the story would have been given away early. This is hypothetical but what do you think Tess's aura would be? In the episode "Summer of 47" the nurse was dead on. I thought Shiri did an excellent job. I consider it her finest performance. I you look closely her eyes are welling up, and the fear is there. It still rings in my ear "I cant sleep Captain". The part played by Colin Hanks is real, Sheridan Cavitt is still alive in obscurity. He wasn't as boisterous though, he was very sly much like the character Jason played. The History Channel swears there wasn't a single nurse on base at the time. Dont you believe it. I have a photograph of her and she isn't listed in AAF records anywhere. Glenn Dennis knows every detail about her, even her army number. She was taking the notes at the autopsy. No one ever saw her get on the plane to England. The farther I go back I'm convinced people in the military let incidents like this one go. Their families are at stake. Walter Haut told me he resigned from the AAF later that year. He was happy with the AAF, flew 35 missions over Japan in a B-29 and he was happy with this new training assignment that was offered him. He said he couldn't have had a better assignment. That all changed when Col. Blanchard requested him at the 509. You must know that it was the most prestigous group in the world. Something happened in the summer of 47 and people's lives changed forever. With all of the charm, one piece of information seems to be hidden. He said he hadn't seen the ship but I'm positive he was quietly debriefed by Maj. Jesse Marcel. He told me Jesse and his family lived 2 blocks away, off base. If there is any question knawing away at you just give me a buzz. |
| Posted 06-15-2002 07:50
AM by Anla
I figured that the Mommygram was the show's way of dealing with the issue of the Collective Consciousness. Not quite as interactive as the CC was, but then again, the CC pretty much only gave Max the information it wanted to in the books, anyway, so there was another similarity to the Mommygram (the lack of actual, concrete, useful information given by the Mommgram always irritated me). Another similarity between the CC and the whole "Destiny" storyline - neither the CC or the aliens back on Antar seemed to really care about what the aliens on earth, as individuals, wanted. They were both telling them what they needed to do for the good of the aliens back on the home planet. It didn't matter what Book Max really wanted - the Collective Consciousness would just take him over and use his body to accomplish their goals if he wouldn't cooperate. And the "Destiny" thing was flat-out telling them what they had to do, what their destiny was, to come back and save their planet from their enemies, that this mission was what they were created for. Which is a lot to throw at a bunch of 17 year old teenagers who have had absolutely no alien-related guidance in their lives and have made lives for themselves on earth (with the exception of Tess, who was raised with the whole destiny thing). Interesting point about the aliens' instincts. In the books, a big deal was made of the fact that all the aliens had species instincts, things like a memory of what their home planet looked like (I guess these instincts were a predecessor to the Collective Consciousness, and I wonder if aliens born in the future on other planets will still have them). In season 1 of the show, the aliens also evidenced some use of this species knowledge. All three aliens recognized the symbol on Atherton's necklace. And Michael more than the others relied on instincts and things that he "just knew", like reading the map in the cave. I actually really liked the Hybrid Chronicles. Not for the sci-fi in them, because quite honestly, the giant flying alien jellyfish just made me laugh. But it was the first time in Season 2 that I really got that sense of the characters pulling together as friends again, after so long a period of time with fighting each other. They all worked together to face the danger of the Gendarium crystals, and we got to see Kyle and Alex. That's always a plus. Michael and Maria on a road trip - another personal favorite - they're just so funny. Michael learned to come more to terms with his human side. And Valenti rocks. He owned those episodes. His loyalty to the kids is truly inspiring. I hated that he lost his job, but it was still wonderful how he put the kids first. And the question of which shapeshifter on the show was watching which set of pods. Well, I always believed in Tic Tac, that the shapeshifter we saw in ID, SH, and Crazy is not the same shapeshifter that we later met as Ed Harding and which the pod squad referred to as Nasedo (not necessarily the same shapeshifter Riverdog knew as Nasedo). I believed that Tic Tac was the New Mexico set's protector, which I guess would have left Nasedo as the Dupes's guardian. But with the arrival of Cal Langley on the scene (who obviously could not be Tic Tac), I had to question this previous belief. I still believe that there were two shapeshifters in Season 1 (Tic Tac and "Nasedo"/Ed Harding). With the arrival of a third, I have to wonder how many there are running around. We don't know, because the kids never bothered to actually ask Nasedo or Cal any questions about things like that (or why they killed the people they were supposed to have killed or anything like that). They should have had Liz make them a list of questions to ask (that's still one of my favorite parts of the Pilot - Liz's list of questions for Max ). Anyway, it appears that Cal Langley was supposed to be the Pod Squad's protector (although he did one awful job with it). So, who watched the Dupes? Lonnie was awfully evasive when the subject of their protector came up. Which is interesting - on the show, the two sets of pods supposedly had guardians. In the books, they didn't, at least not officially. Yet I personally think that Ray did a better job of keeping track of them in the books and trying to answer their questions and give them knowledge than the guardians on the show did. (I might be being a bit harsh with "Nasedo", but since we don't know whether or not he really made a deal with Kivar, then I don't feel comfortable considering him a good protector for them. Of course, I have a hard time believing that he made a deal with Kivar, but that's what Tess said. ) shapeshifter - I was surprised that they were supposedly human powers, but that the Skins had them too. I finally had to decide for myself that the Husks had enough human DNA to allow them to have the same powers as the hybrids' human bodies did. Either that, or Antar and Earth had remarkably similar developments. What really bugged me was the whole "reincarnated royalty" storyline, because we never really got that developed. I would have expected more information and recovered memories. Oh, well. Things were much simpler in the books, when they were just typical alien children, although ones lost on another planet. I figured that the Mommygram was a mindwarp at the time, too. Maybe not the fact that there was a Mommygram, but the specifics of the message. It's just too perfect. Max, Mr. Responsible, have to control everything and everyone in order to keep them safe, finds out that he has this huge responsibility to save his home planet. Michael, who's gone through his whole life looking for something to believe in and a purpose, finds out that he's supposed to help Max in this great war ("I always knew there was something out there, but I didn't know it was this important" and all that). Isabel, who loves her human mother dearly but can't tell her about their alien status, sees her "beautiful" alien mother, who tells her how much she loves her and who Isabel wouldn't have to lie to. Too neat, too perfectly designed to appeal to each of their deepest wants and weaknesses. Not to mention the fact that the Mommygram gives them very little in the way of useful information. No name of their home planet. No mention of their past names, in fact. No information about Michael's family. No explanation of their enemy, other than the "evil within" comment (which was promptly ignored next season), what the fight back home was about, or how to fight them. No mention of the Granolith. [ 06-15-2002: Message edited by: Aratheraidwen ] |
| Posted 06-16-2002 06:58
AM by quickdraw
The last two post were so great both food for the mind. LARRY, your comment of the "summer of 47" episode was very interesting. It makes me think about the roles both played by (nurse)Liz and (sheridan)Alex. As the time of the Roswell crash and the community of the military was always closed with information, What the nurse had seen must have seen was something she could not deny. Perhaps just by taking notes, or sketches leaving proof of what she had seen, she was just too easy to have "disappear" to quiet the information. Since that area was so close to many of our Nuclear experiment sites it makes one wonder about "how far" the military intellegence would go to wipe away any leaks. Alex was great in this role also, it was great to see him play the part of this man in control of hushing up loose information. Just for fun...You asked about Tess's Aura...I would think she had a definate orange color, a gal wanting to have what she wants and a growing desire to achieve it Aratheraidwen... I too enjoyed all your comments The Hybred Chronicles you mentioned (the flying Jelly fish cracks me up ) was so great about bringing the group together that we all had beeen missing in the season. And we learned more about the background of out characters too, Michael's relaitves and all. Also mentioned about Jim V it too was a look into what he had given up and his loyalty to protecting the group. The books mention Michael's brother Trevor,and he was really cool, would like to have more of his story in the Roswell storyline too. |
| Posted 06-17-2002 05:52
PM by shapeshifter
I'm back, having kept things under Warp 7. Oh, and not only is there a road named "Roswell" in Atlanta, but I was a little amused when my cab from the airport headed north on 285. Larry & quickdraw, about the auras: the color variations seem to be as random as a person's hair & skin coloring. If we knew what color Liz's parents' auras were, we could tell for sure if there was a genetic cause. But since Metz doesn't give that, your guess is as good as mine. Maybe if there's a Roswell Movie they will give us auras. And Larry, I doubt I will ever invest much thought into whether or not
the "real" Roswell incident happened. I prefer to look for connections and
clues that have archetypal origins. quote:Good point! And I suppose this is also how most teenagers view the directives of their parents--like they are totally coming from a different planet & don't care about the teens. quote:And when Liz had her first Max-kissing flashes, she saw the planets that he in his pod couldn't have seen. But I guess her visions of the military burying the orb would be sort of like her later abilities to see the future. If the show continued, they could have had her develop more history visions. quote:I gave up on the TicTac Theory when the "official" WB program guide stated TicTac was Nasedo. But reading your post has me thinking that JK may have decided to have Kal be the personification of TicTac. But in WR we learn that there were 4 shapeshifters at the start. Also, just because they say one died, it doesn't mean he wasn't later reconstituted with the crystals. Anyway, I loved the character of Kal--very 3 dimensional. quote:Hmmm... true, why would I believe it because Tess said it? quote:Another good one. Did you ever share it on the Sci Fi Thread? quote:If I was ever going to use the puke smilie, it would be to express my solidarity with you on this one. quote:Yet another good point--one that I had sort of been subconsciously holding. And the worst thing family members can do to each other is to fight with words and ideas that way. Perhaps when Tess and/or Nasedo made the deal with Kvar, he gave them the orbs with the bogus Mommy message to appeal to the podsters natures (which would have been similar to the Antarian personalities). After all, Kvar didn't hesitate to use the latest travel technology in Season 3. Okay, I'm almost done with my 3rd reread of Book 5 and have a fun similarity to share with y'all. From p. 86, substitute "Alex" for "Adam" (both 4-letter guy names beginning with "A"):
"Lucinda Baker is working today. One of you guys take off your shirt. That will get her back here fast enough," Isabel said. Adam started to tug off his sweatshirt. "No, no. I was just kidding Adam," Isabel said, stopping him midstrip. The entire table broke into laughter... |
| Posted 06-17-2002 08:56
PM by Larry Bradford
SHAPESHIFTER, I received Roswell High books #2, #3, and #4 inthe mail last week. These are the originals not the actors and they are in mint condition. They should have stayed with the original art. You're probably right, this is the comparison thread. Maybe I did step over the line but I have interviewed survivors from the summer of 47 and they dont open up easily. So much for the facts, now we can untangle Metz. |
| Posted 06-18-2002 06:38
PM by quickdraw
Welcome back Shapeshifterglad you watched your speed some haven't and the jails can't be too friendly to out of (earth) state visitors I love this thread...It does open up so many different views of the
books and what we seen on our Roswell show . I guess that is why I do
enjoy the Sheriff on the show so much. He is a man that is very
intelligent and has roots to any logical way of thinking. The incident
that had happened to his dad (The shooting and loss of his Job,and placed
in a care home) and the riducle of others for trying to find out what
really happened, are with him every day of his life. He knows something
had happened and in the search for this evidence he is looked upon as
someone whom is not working with a full deck. His son Kyle also adds to
this as his comments reflect his non belief in his dad's search.
BUT...when Liz asks for his help to rescue Max from the FBI and he sees
the underground Lab, strong proof of what he suspected for so long now,
Michael using his powers to save MAX he now knows there is proof of
aliens...Now does he turn them in to the authorities or do the right thing
and protect them? His life was changed that day his beliefs proven, and
when his son lay dying, this alien so many fear saved his son's life.
Larry You have the books with the original covers without the cast? Is it the same content inside and did they change any of the story line? |
| Posted 06-18-2002 08:02
PM by shapeshifter
quickdraw, I wonder if the reason Valenti became a good guy in the show was because Bill Sadler was a 'good guy' to the younger actors? But both the show and the books dealt with social issues--though I think the books were more psychological issues, while the show was more political. The books with the original covers are the same text as the later releases with the actors. |
| Posted 06-18-2002 08:21
PM by Larry Bradford
QUICKDRAW......the story line is the same but the covers are beautiful and mysterious. The Letters are raised on the cover which makes them even more appealing. Today I received a mint copy of #1 and it is the library version. Incredible to see an original in hardback form. Anyway, the only one I dont have is #5 "The Intruder" in original cover. The WB tie-in books are dull to me in appearance, the only exception is "The Wild One". I would like to have the library version since they are hardback but that may be impossible. Now, I ordered my hardcover from an outlet through a warehouse. So I will be watching the web closely. I cant seem to do anything half way, I'm relentless when I want something. The original covers remind me of what you are capable of doing with your artwork. All five originals can be found online for $2 each. I visited the the Bill Sadler board last night. You really like this guy dont you? If you haven't read the phone conversation you need to! |
| Posted 06-19-2002 06:08
AM by quickdraw
Larry, thanks for the info on the other cover books. Went to the Amazon site and they had a few left and they showed the pix also you are right the covers are cool. I still love my Roswell cast book but to see the art is real nice got it ordered They also listed another book that delt with the show and its first 2 seasons Roswell High ( ordered it too) boy that site can be dangerous to the pocketbook. Shapeshifter... what do you think ( since you mentioned re-reading book 5 the Intruder) about Adam as he was killing ( the bad sheriff) Valenti and the flash of brightlight leaving only a pile of dust. It sounds so much like the effect used in the show. Adam was so evil in his revenge Max and the others were afraid of his powers and of Adam. A little like Nasedo maybe? |
| Posted 06-19-2002 05:07
PM by shapeshifter
quickdraw, First, about TV Valenti vs Book Valenti: I rewatched Pilot last night and noticed that though he first enters the Crashdown with the mirrored sunglasses mentioned in the books, in the show he immediately removes them (unlike in the books) and speaks to Liz considerately. Also, when he shows her the pictures of the dead guy from 1959 with the silver handprint (unlike in the show where he takes her to the morgue), he is very apologetic (unlike the book too). So, it seems they decided from the beginning in the show to transform Valenti, and surprise us with Nasedo & Tess as the villains. I think they did a good job. About the demise of Book Valenti: in terms of the pile of ash in the form of the body that dissolves--this is like the death of Nasedo in the show (which fits with my Bad Guy Theory above), but also like the 'death' of Max this season. Okay, I'm now re-reading The Stowaway (Book 6), and if there is anyone out there who wants to write a screenplay or fiction that includes the Collective Consciousness, this is the book to study. Also in Book 6, when possessed Adam (thinking of the guy Kvar possesses in Season 3 too) connects to Isabel, it is very much what TV Nickolas does when he "mind rapes." And on page 49, when Isabel says she "saw evil" when she connected with not-Adam, I immediately thought of the Momogram's "you will know your enemies by the evil within." |
| Posted 06-19-2002 09:08
PM by quickdraw
I got my book out of The Stowaway and looked up the pages you mentioned. I had forgotten about that scene until you had mentioned it. Yes, It does sound like the Kvar that killed Courtney in the TV show. As I read into the book further, There were so many amazing things that Metz had brought into the story. And It shows the CC and the control it had over the aliens even though from miles away. It had reminded me like the "using" of abductees here on Earth to talk to Max in Max in the City episode |
| Posted 06-19-2002 11:18
PM by ~*Nikki*~
I really wish that Liz's dead sister would have been brought into the series, I think that was a good point in the book. Nikki |
| Posted 06-20-2002 05:53
AM by quickdraw
*Nikki* Glad to have you join in Yes, the whole story of Liz's sister in the Roswell books from what I
read would have been great to also have her in the story of the Roswell TV
show. Having to be on constant watch by her parents of falling into the
drug problems her sister died of,and always trying to prove to them she
was not Rosa was difficult for her. In the story Liz in her struggles with
her idenity with her parents she later moves out but then does come back
home to her father. The TV Liz she had struggles with her parents too, we
are shown her as an only child in the show. If they could have added a
sister to the TV story it would have been great. When the filming took us
into Liz's room there was photos of her with Alex and Maria. This showed
us the close bond the 3 had like a family and if there would have been
also the photo of her with her sister it would have also shown us more
into Liz's personality. I liked the TV liz (Shiri was a great pick for that role) and all the scenes her and Max did together |
| Posted 06-22-2002 06:20
AM by shapeshifter
In The Stowaway (Book 6), about the group connection: on page 146 when the group makes their connection in a life & death situation, "Alex" describes being able to accept "typical" self-centered Isabel "without any bitterness...without their mutual history weighing him down...he could enjoy the pure, essential Isabel without all their mutual crap in the way." I find this to be a very mature, spiritual idea. Some other stuff from Book 6 that parallels Season 1 & 2 events of the show:
Also, on page 166, when Max is trying to close the wormhole, he shrivels like an old man, which reminded me of when he was healing Clayton Wheeler in Season 3. And when Dupris puppets people, their eyes become 'souless,' 'empty,' and 'blank' like Isabel's when Kvar made Vilondra take over her body. BTW, I laughed when Jessie asked her what had happened to her eyes. I finished the Stowaway, and am departing from my reread of the series to read Little Green Men. So far, I find the characterization of Kyle to be true to the show. [ 06-22-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 06-22-2002 11:58
AM by Larry Bradford
SHAPESHIFTER.....I read every post, look at every profile, check past posts and mentally archive everything anyone says. I call it pigeon holing and it has served me well for 45 years. My mistakes always occur when I'm tired and need sleep. I simply hate to sleep because it is time lost. King Priam of Troy said "It is a fool who makes a quarrel of a debate". As a librarian you know the value of organization. We write with our brains but the inspiration comes from the heart. Without thinking about it I try to plant seeds of thought in every post. I rely on the classics and Homer to ground me. My favorite author is HG Wells and consider Fahrenheit 451 one of the finest books ever written. I try to respect the opinion of others, without them independent thought would disappear and that would make me a dictator. You didn't expect me to post in this way..Right! This is a signal to everyone to come to this thread and state your thoughts about book versus series and what is the difference to you! Back to your original question, Shapeshifter. With all of the videos, books, TV documentaries, and official files from every source including scientific, there hasn't been a single hint of pods as an incubation or birth device in relation to the Roswell incident. There is a theory that meteors may have carried bacteria or the tiny building blocks of life from outside earth on impact. Some brave scientists refer to it as galactical seeding. I have an open mind so nothing is impossible but many things dont seem plausible. If all of my opinions are right than I am truly ignorant. Lets say my opinions are what I am most comfortable and familiar with. Amazing since I am definitely conservative. I didn't expect this post to come out this way but it did, so it stands. |
| Posted 06-22-2002 05:07
PM by quickdraw
Book 6 (the stowaway) was very interesting using their combined minds to create a connection to the home planet and when they try to destroy their enemy Dupris they instead lose one of theirs, Alex. In comparision to the TV show Tess created Mind warps and in forcing Alex to do something he didn't want to do, his mind was destroyed and Died in the show. I personally think that Alex should not have died on the show, an absence like in the story would have left open a much mysterious hunt for where he was. And as for Isabel in the story of book 7 (the Vanished) she grieved for Alex's loss much as the TV Isabel did I love reading alot, the book series was wonderful fiction of
characters and their personalality and humor is just a great addition to
the whole experience. I read fiction to escape from everyday headaches
that life gives us, we are unique in the way that by reading our minds are
introduced to ideas brought foward by others no matter what era they are
from. Factual information (non fiction) is also written to pass on to
those readers to inform others of what has happened too again no matter
what era also. In the thread of the Sci-fi of Roswell I was reaing into some of the
ideas expresed and some backed with actual science now in use today (it is
a great link to check out). LarryBradford I have a question also to ask of the Roswell High books, you recieved a library edition, were these issued before the paperbacks or were printed after (I do not have one as of yet and was just wondering) |
| Posted 06-23-2002 01:38
PM by Anla
quickdraw - As a Michael lover, I would have loved to have learned more about his past life, history, and family on the tv show. So I would have enjoyed having Trevor show up, especially if it had involved a storyline of questioned loyalties like it did in the books (I would have preferred that to the problems between Max and Michael at the start of season 2, actually). I guess that Laurie was the show's version of giving Michael family, and I did enjoy that storyline. Interesting difference in approaches, though. While both storylines gave Michael family, the books gave him a brother who made him tie in more with his alien side (even to the point of almost leaving earth to go back and rebuild the social order on their home planet) while Laurie was a definite connection between Michael and his human side. I enjoyed the scenes between Michael and Laurie, especially the one where he first makes that emotional connection with her and tells her that no matter what his faults are, he's loyal and he won't turn his back on her. And he doesn't. He stays with her until he's sure that she's safe and can manage on her own. I think one of the best story arcs in season 1 was the development of Valenti from threat to ally. The ending of The Convention really does a great job of showing how Valenti comes to the realization that Max is one of the citizens of Roswell that he's sworn to protect, no matter what he might be, so Valenti protects Max from Hubble. Protecting those in his care is what Valenti is all about. He hunts Max at first because he thinks he's a threat and wants to protect the humans. But when he recognizes that Max isn't a threat, Valenti moves to protect him as well. The character development was done so well and so gradually that it never seems jarring or out of place. And I guess that Book Valenti probably felt that he was protecting people from the aliens, too, but he lacked TV Valenti's ability to really look at situations and people as they were, and not how he was conditioned to see them. He wasn't able, or willing, to change. Hmm, I'd never really thought of a comparison between Adam and Nasedo as killers. I can see the killing of Book Valenti as similar to when Cal Langley killed the actor in season 3. But of course, the huge difference is that Adam wasn't in control of his actions at the time - he was a puppet of DuPris. It was his body that killed Valenti, but not really him. Puppet Adam was pretty scary, though, especially before we knew what was going on with him. shapeshifter - Good point. I hadn't thought of the whole "destiny" directive and the Mommygram as being further evidence of the whole aliens as symbolic of teens looking for their identity, feeling alienated from those around them and controlled by adults. I will never give up on the Tic Tac theory. I'm sure that you're right about it officially not existing and all that. But I can't help it. It just doesn't make sense for the shapeshifter we saw in SH, ID, and Crazy to be the same one we saw from TL&V on. There are too many differences. So I choose to believe they were intentional and keep the whole Tic Tac theory alive in my head, even if it was never given offical recognition from the actual show. The problem with Tess ending up the great "evil" (okay, one of the many problems with Tess ending up the great "evil" ) is that it puts everything she ever told them in doubt. And everything that ever happened when she was anywhere in the vicinity in doubt, since she could have been mindwarping them. Come to think of it, even if we don't know that she was in the vicinity, it could still have been a mindwarp and she just mindwarped everyone into not seeing her. I'm pretty conservative on the whole mindwarp thing - if we don't know for sure that it was a mindwarp, then it wasn't. But I know some people are much more suspicious of things when Tess was around, and I can't really blame them. So, anyway, just because Tess says that Nasedo was working with Kivar doesn't necessarily mean it's true. I'm not the guy's biggest fan, but I have problems with the idea of him working with the Skins, mostly because they killed him. But it could be true. Who knows? No, I've never shared my Husk thoughts on the Sci-fi thread. But I'm sure I'm not the only one who came up with that possibility while trying to figure out Courtney's abilities to manipulate matter like the Pod Squad does at Isabel's party. Adam starting to strip? Is that the inspiration for Officer Whitman's performance? I did love Adam. The group connection towards the end of The Stowaway is my absolute favorite part of the whole Roswell High series. It's just so beautiful, how they all love each other and how it can be felt so clearly in the connection.
quote: This is what I always figured Liz's ability to see flashes came from. I never thought of her so much as becoming alien (because if that's true, then that means we've got a whole lot of little aliens running around from Max's Christmas journey to heal the children), as I thought Max woke up a part of the human brain that wasn't usually used when he did the reverse connection with her. That would also go along with Nasedo's comment that all of their powers were "human powers", that they were just like humans only far advanced. So, Liz was just an advanced human now. It also tied in with the books, how the humans could use their mental energies to help out the aliens, and the tv show's balance ceremony. Of course, that's not the way the show apparently decided to go in Season 3. Nikki - I really wish that the Rosa storyline had been included in the show, too. It would have helped develop the character of Liz, and would have added so much more to the episode Into the Woods, when her father thinks that Liz is on drugs. [ 06-23-2002: Message edited by: Aratheraidwen ] |
| Posted 06-23-2002 03:07
PM by Larry Bradford
ARATHERAIDWEN...The Tic Tac Theory has driven me to drink. If Ed and Tess Harding were together all of the time as we are led to believe than who is, or are, the other Shapeshifters? It's as if the killer wanders from town to town as a serial killer. Isn't it plausible that one of them was caught and disposed of by the Special Unit? The character Jim Valenti is developed, and crafted so well it is virtually flawless. Imagine if the character development had been done as well we might be looking at a series complete for maybe 7-8 seasons. Rosa pretty much grounded me in the book version. It got to be so bad with me I was predicting the TV episode ending based on the books when I saw a direct parallel. For me this seemed to happen with Michael, Isabel, and Alex. Since I've never seen the pilot I cant make a concrete judgement with Liz and Max. I must admit I thought Michael was going to go back and put things in order on his home planet. On TV it was a shock to me that Michael decided to stay on earth in Departure especially since he was always searching for his destiny. |
| Posted 06-23-2002 03:57
PM by Anla
Larry Bradford - Well, officially the show has had two shapeshifters - "Nasedo" and Kal Langley. But, as I mentioned above, I can't believe that Ed Harding is the same shapeshifter as the one we saw in the earlier Season 1 episodes (he acts differently, he shapeshifts differently, he eats those little candies which we never saw Ed Harding eat, and where was Tess? Supposedly the two of them were never apart until he went to be Pierce), so I believe there are more than two. Alas, the question of how many aliens were on the planet will never be answered, because it was one of the many questions the kids didn't ask Nasedo or Kal (along with a request for any types of explanations of the killings - like Sheila Hubble or Atherton or the actor who Kal Langley supposedly killed). It's one of the many Roswellian mysteries. As for Michael deciding to stay on Earth in Departure - I have to admit that I was surprised at the time that he did it. Departure was an episode of many surprises for me - good ones (Michael letting Maria see him was just so beautiful it had me practically crying) and bad ones (I still don't understand the Tess betrayal thing). I knew it would kill Michael to have to choose, but I thought he would go with Max. Not because it was his destiny to fulfill or anything like that - Michael had made it clear by that point in the season that he wasn't interested in that and he had told Max that he had been wrong to want to find a home on another planet all that time. But protecting Max was something so fundamental to Michael's personality that I figured he would go along to protect the king. So I was surprised that Michael decided to stay for Maria (pleasantly surprised, I am a Candy after all ). But it did make sense - Michael's real interest had always been in finding a family and a home. That's why he wanted to find Nasedo so much. Michael thought he was their father and he would have a family then, someone who loved him and somewhere he would belong. As he told Max, Michael finally found that home for himself, and it was on earth, so he stayed there. I felt that all three of the aliens acted in character in the Granolith scenes in Departure. Michael stayed for the home he'd finally found, Max had to be the responsible one and go in order to be with his child who he felt couldn't survive on earth, and Isabel stayed with her brother, even though she didn't really want to leave earth. I really enjoyed most of Departure. And that did tie in well with the books. In the books, family was the most important thing to Michael too. He was able to deal with being shuffled from foster home to foster home because he told himself that he had a family - Max, Isabel, Liz, Maria, and Alex. And then when Trevor showed up, Michael was just so thrilled to have a blood relation, a brother. He kept noticing all the similarities he had to Trevor. It meant so much to him. |
Posted 06-23-2002 04:02
PM by shapeshifter
quote:ITA! I did appreciate Shiri's Acting in those eps (Alex's death) and Colin's acting as Ghost Alex, but I would have much more preferred if Alex had been sucked up in a wormhole. Then he could have done a cameo return at the end of Season 3 with Kvar--maybe bringing back a new alien girl. But his death in S2 was written before Metz was on board the TV show, so maybe the contract to use only Book 1 (not that they did, as we have clearly shown ) prevented them from using the Alex wormhole plotline.
quote:Good point! Interesting that in the end both Michaels stayed on earth, both Isabels are alone, and Max & Liz are together, but the plot devices to get them there are so different. Larry, You haven't seen The Pilot!!!!???? My Book 7 is missing p.49. I have ordered another, but wondered if others have this missprint. About Little Green Men--IMNSHO, it is not as well written as the Metz
books. The editing is poor--there's a lot of redundancy that should have
been caught. And the basic plot is a cross between Wipe Out and Hybrid
Chronicles. On the plus side, it has some nice social commentary (if a
little overt), and the scene towards the end where Maria & Liz are in
the hospital has some nice interactions with secondary characters. For
those on other threads that have seen Liz & Maria trading
personalities over the seasons, this book is especially that way.
[ 06-23-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
Posted 06-23-2002 04:58
PM by Anla
quote: Remember way back on our first thread, when we were discussing the way that the characters were different and similar in their TV and book versions? I think we pretty much concluded that their essential personalities were the same. I guess this goes along with that. The plots are different in the books and the show (although there are an awful lot of similarities ), but the characters are fundamentally the same. They have some differences, because of their different circumstances, but when you get right down to it, they're often going to act and react in the same way. [ 06-23-2002: Message edited by: Aratheraidwen ] |
| Posted 06-23-2002 05:09
PM by Larry Bradford
SHAPESHIFTER...It is a crime a rarely speak of but no I haven't seen the pilot. The morning after, yes. I must say that icky Tess/Max seem to have the dreamers reaching for gun racks, pool cues, and jagged knives. Somehow I've learned to live with it. In book 5 "The Intruder" there are some passages I haven't seen any post and it seems relevant to the death of Alex in S2. On page 74-75 it isn't specific but it popped into my head last year. Poor Alex, he sounded kind of dazed like a guy who had been in a car crash and was wandering aroung the highway, talking about the milk he was supposed to pick up on his way home. No clue where he was or even what had happened. No matter how it is said it smacks of the death of Alex in a strange way right down to the mindwarp. Those 2 sentences have been rattling in my head for a year. It was a part that I hadn't pigeon holed and I was blinded by Valenti saying it was an accident or suicide. I believe the writers yanked this from the book and built up a story around it. This is only a supposition but the words and Parallels cant be overlooked logically. I'm just one person but this is what started the wheels turning. Any ideas? |
| Posted 06-23-2002 05:22
PM by shapeshifter
Aratheraidwen, I agree, although Michael stared out a little harder in the show, having a harder foster parent to deal with. Have you read Little Green Men? Liz is not so strong in it--Maria comes up with the idea to save the day when they're in a bind. Also in LGM: Max & some earthlings are in a dark room, and they have to wait for Valenti to turn on the light. As I read it, having just rewatched River Dog, I was sooo expecting Max to illuminate the scene with a handful of light. IMAGE: www.theddd.com/rd/rd52.jpg IMAGE: www.theddd.com/rd/rd53.jpg Larry, you can download the Pilot--would have to check the links--anyone have them handy? And I'll be rereading the Intruder shortly--will get back to you on that. [ 06-23-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 06-23-2002 06:22
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - I loved that effect in Riverdog - the gentle blue light that Max manages to come up with in order to find Liz when he's worried about her. Actually, I liked the whole Riverdog cave sequences, right up the ending with his cryptic warning to Liz to be sure that Max was worthy of her trust and then Max reaching out his hand for her to take as she makes her decision. No, I haven't read Little Green Men yet. I looked for it in my usual bookstore, but they didn't have it, so I haven't bought it yet. I agree with you about Michael being harder and more guarded in the tv show than the books. TV Michael is more suspicious and hostile towards humans, too (small wonder, with the example of Hank). Book Michael might not have had any strong connections with humans until becoming friends with Alex, Liz, and Maria, but he had nothing really against them either - he was capable of hanging out and joking with other kids from school, and flirting with cute girls, something which TV Michael wouldn't do except with Maria (although he was capable of being quite charming, as we saw when he distracted the nurse in Blood Brothers). But deep down, they're the same. Both Michaels are protectors, both want a family and a real home more than anything, and both are willing to risk themselves without hesitation to protect the rest of the group (even if it's by doing something reckless which the rest of the group would prefer they wouldn't do, like going to meet Topolsky in the episode Crazy or Book Michael planning on using the Stone of Midnight in order to find the ship to save Max's life, even knowing it would probably get him killed). TV Michael is who Book Michael would have been if he was raised by Hank. |
| Posted 06-23-2002 08:08
PM by quickdraw
I just was reading all the comments you made of Michael Aratheraidwen you had mentioned. I think Michael was a character that had more to his background, his concern for his friends was great. It does bring up a thought of why Michael could recognize many of the symbols of the cave, the necklace that Isabel had, and why the device that brodie had in the UFO museum reacted to him, when Max and Isabel did not have any idea of what they were. Max and Isabel are of Royalty, and Michael was his military, so are these markings,devices something he was alert of and not them? |
| Posted 06-23-2002 08:27
PM by Larry Bradford
QUICKDRAW...You have nailed it down, Michael as a warrior would know all of this. How could I have overlooked something so obvious? Max had no military training so he put that into Michaels hands. We must be slipping, Max is a diplomat, and we can see this skill throughout. Caution before action...that has been what was tearing at them from the beginning. We have a warrior on earth with nothing to do. If he weren't so loyal, forget Departure, it is an aberation. Now I've found the Rosetta Stone. |
| Posted 06-24-2002 06:29
AM by Anla
I was rewatching some of the later season 3 episodes the other day, including Ch,ch,changes and Chant Down Babylon. I was struck again by how some of the symptoms of Liz's "change" into alien powers resembled the akino. And then Max used the healing stones to try to fix her (rather like the books when Max connected to the consciousness). I've always rather wondered why Max did this healing ceremony with Liz alone. When they used the healing stones to help Michael, they used the energies of the whole group. It might have helped to have the others there, instead of just Max. My favorite parts of Chant Down Babylon are the two scenes where Kyle and then Michael are talking to Isabel as she lies there sick and possibly dying. Kyle is just adorable, trying to use his non-existent aliens powers to heal her. And Michael's speech to Isabel is very touching. Michael sitting there by her bedside, wanting to help her and not really knowing how, reminded me of in the books when he was the one Isabel went to for help as she went through her akino. |
Posted 06-24-2002 05:50
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Well, either it was supposed to signify Max & Liz growing closer together and to point toward their marriage, or they were on a tight budget and didn't want to pay for all the actors to be present--because in the end, they did all stick together. But then maybe that was the point--that trying to do it alone wouldn't be effective. I just watched Blood Brothers in which Max is unconscious and they can't rely on the usual medical establishment--like when Max was sick with his akino in the books. |
| Posted 06-24-2002 05:51
PM by quickdraw
I was re reading the book of The Dark One (book 9) and as I read the passages of when Dupris and Trever(pgs. 35-40)were in link to recharge the stone of midnight. Trever is told by Michael that Dupris was the one that killed their parents, and he(Dupris) freely admits it proudly. It reminds me of the Max in the City episode when the conference of the heads of the worlds wanted Max to give up to them the Grenolith. On Antar,Kovar had killed them and the evil he seems to show to the Royals is rather boastful,much like Dupris. Do you notice the book had that scene taking place in the "Partridges'
living room"? |
Posted 06-24-2002 07:13
PM by Anla
quote: So it was to make a point, that they needed to work together in order to accomplish things? Okay, I can accept that. But why would Max think that he could do it himself? Of course, they were all so fragmented for most of season 3 (something which I didn't like at all - I like the whole "us against the world" feel from the books, Season 1 and parts of Season 2). And you're right - at the end they did all end up sticking together. They needed to focus on their friendships and the love they all had for each other (the whole "remember love" thing that the fortune teller told Michael or however she phrased it). So, both the tv show and the book series ended with the group sticking together and not separating (although sadly without Alex on the show ). [ 06-24-2002: Message edited by: Aratheraidwen ] |
| Posted 06-26-2002 04:57
PM by quickdraw
I have come to the end of book 9 ( the dark one) and in my reading Max was taken in by the CC he fought to try to communicate to the others while being held back by the consciouness. That comes very close to what Max had to do when he was fighting Clayton in Babylon. In the TV story when Max was fighting with Michael in Isabels' home he made comment "believe me Michael you don't want to go where I've been" and it makes me wonder when Max had to "watch" this person kill and attempt to kill Maria and Liz, how it must have changed him both Max's had to fight for their own life in a struggle to be free of the evil that was holding them back Also the death of Adam is so very sad and wastful much like the death of Ales in TV |
| Posted 06-28-2002 04:10
AM by quickdraw
I haven't seeen any new post so I am posting again I am into book 10 (The Salvation) and I have seen two comparisions in
the books (only gotten up to chapter 5) Also in the book Isabel and Trever work to make him into another Max by
shapeshifting his image into Max's |
Posted 06-28-2002 08:23
PM by shapeshifter
quote: quote:I rewatched 285 South, River Dog and Balance this week, and am just starting Into The Woods. Max, Isabel, and Michael all recognize the symbols, but only Michael takes the stones and puts them into the cave drawing, declaring, "It's a map." He does this after his near-death coccoon experience with the sweat. It's interesting that he appears to get sick after drinking the bowl that was going around, but when RD tells the podsquad & co. to drink from it as part of Michael's healing, and Max asks (with suspicion), "What is it?" RD replies, "Water." I am thinking originally it was something else, but the WB PTB made them put the 'water' line in so it wouldn't be R rated for showing someone doing drugs. Anyhoo, it reminds me of Maria's pseudo psychic visions when she's under the influence of the ring. Aratheraidwen! I am so glad you are Anla again! It's so much easier to spell. |
| Posted 07-01-2002 12:21
PM by Anla
quickdraw - I found Adam's death in the book series and Alex's deaths in the show to be very similar as well. They were both so sad - I was sobbing when I read the funeral scene in the last book. Adam's death totally surprised me - I didn't see it coming. At least with Alex, I had been warned by spoilers (it was the worst kept secret on the Internet, I think ), although I still didn't believe it until it happened. It was interesting to see the differences in the way Book Liz and TV Liz dealt with their losses. Book Liz was able to grieve and talk about it with her father (probably because they had already tried the emotional repression route after Rosa died and found that it didn't work). While when Alex died on the show, Liz shut out pretty much everyone and just focused on her anger (although she did break down that one time in the Crashdown - such a sad scene). Maybe the difference was that in the books, they knew who killed Adam. There was some closure. While on the show, there was that huge mystery about Alex's death. Or maybe it was just that Book Liz had learned lessons about learning to let other people in and let them help her, while TV Liz was still into always dealing with things on her own. Actually, one of the things that I liked the best about CYN was the way that it showed different ways people dealt with grief. While I hated the fact that Alex was gone, it was a very well-written and well-acted episode.
Quote: Yes, all the aliens on the show seem to have specific memories and
recognize alien symbols. I wonder if those are things they remember from
their past lives, or if all aliens have those memories. But Michael seems
to take it a bit farther at times. In Blind Date, he was the one who
managed to figure out how to read the map, which surprised Isabel. (This
was actually one of the problems I had with the Destiny Book. None of the
three aliens made any comments about recognizing it or that the language
seemed familar to them.) Quote:
[ 07-01-2002: Message edited by: Anla ] |
| Posted 07-03-2002 07:19
PM by shapeshifter
Anla, ITA that CYN was well-acted. In Crazy, after Alex gets the shaft from Isabel & Tess and is walking home alone & almost gets kidnapped by Pierce, there is a cross in the background of at least 3 different camera shots of him. If you watch it post-CYN, it sure seems like foreshadowing. In book 7 (the last book to be published before the show began airing), Alex's father (a Clean Slate agent) zaps Adam in the chest, and almost kills him. This to seems like foreshadowing of his demise.
Quote:Maybe he was "fighting" the mindwarps, and it came out in aggressive behavior? This reminds me of the effect of the Collective Consciousness in the books, only then Max was dopey, like he was smoking weed, whereas the effect of the Tess warps was more like alcohol in that it made him violent. Both could be metaphors for substance abuse or the effects of joining a cult--2 things teens are often tempted by. |
| Posted 07-04-2002 03:29
AM by quickdraw
I have enjoyed the Roswell books By Melinda Metz so very much she is a writer that can express so much within the content of the books. The love story that not only starts with Max and Liz, but also intertwins a story of this on again off again Romance of Michael and Maria. The story of Isabel and Alex, and the brothers too of Adam and Trever, and also of Nickolas the love interest that had Isabel going into directions she would not have gone if not for him? that we do not know only that she loved him too. As the characters are described in their wants and needs as a group of teens and as young alien teens trying to discover their past one is drawn into their world that is very detailed as to their reasons for their actions a reader just cant seem to put the book down. Re reading all 10 books just for the enjoyment of it is a time well spent. I personally did not like the sheriff in the books as well as the son, but with ajustments in the story when they were brought into tv I very much enjoyed the sheriff (Bill Sadler played a teriffic role as well as Nick Wechsler too)then. The other actors Jason,Shiri,Brendan,Majandra,Kathrine,Colin,and Adam all did a fantastic job at taking these words on paper and transforming them into images of these characters that we all love, worry about and made them a part of our lives. And in bringing these actors together they included so many other talented and experienced actors that played the parents, the skins, the numerous guest stars that have shared their talent to this story, it is a trasure to have and revisit again |
| Posted 07-04-2002 06:26
AM by Anla
shapeshifter - I noticed Max's increasingly violent tendancies, particularly towards Michael (I especially had problems with his hitting Michael in Crazy, but I won't get into that right now). Then we see his control tendancies get way out of hand with his attitude towards Isabel at the end of Season 2. I've always felt this was his former life coming out - King Zan. The comments that Kal Langley makes about what he was like in his past life seem to support that. I'm not sure it can be blamed all on Tess, at least not that Tess was making him act that way by anything she was actively doing. (Because I remember Max pushing Michael around in one of the early season 1 episodes. I think it was Leaving Normal, but I'm not sure of that. Anyway, it wasn't nearly as bad as it got later.) But perhaps having Tess around was making his subconscious remember more about his past life. Then again, who knows? With what they did in Departure, anything's possible as far as Tess goes. Anyway, I'm about to go start the new thread now. |