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4 Fans » Television » Roswell (1) Topic Subject: Compare and Contrast: TV Show and Roswell High Books - Part 5 |
| Posted 07-04-2002 06:33
AM by Anla
And we are on part 5 of our discussion! Welcome to all fans of the Roswell TV series and the Roswell High books by Melinda Metz. This is a thread devoted to discussing the ways that the two versions of Roswell are the same and the ways in which they are different. Although the show is over, our Roswell love goes on. There are really only two important rules to this thread: No Discussing Which is Better This is a shipper-neutral thread Be warned - all episodes of Roswell and all ten books of the Roswell High series are discussed on this thread, so be careful if you haven't seen/read them yet - you run the risk of being spoiled. A Short List of Topics Covered Character Comparisons Among Characters in Both Liz - Her last name is different (Parker in the TV show, Ortecho in the books). In both, she is saved by Max but later saves Max's life. Max - He looks very different, and tends to be more relaxed in the books. Book Max doesn't have any desire or obligation to go back to his home planet, but TV Max is King and for a while, didn't feel he had much choice. Towards the end of Season 3, Max relinquishes his kingship and any intention of returning to his home planet. Michael - Book Michael is more relaxed and has been treated better by his foster homes (of which he has many more than in the TV show). Isabel - In the books, she is more afraid of external things (Valenti), while on the TV show, what scares her the most is within her (Vilandra). Maria - She has a little brother in the books, and a cousin on the show. In the books, Maria's father is still in the picture (although her parents are divorced), while TV Maria has serious abandonment issues. Alex - His last name is different (Whitman on the show, Manes in the books), and he has a very different relationship with his father. Kyle - He is less stable emotionally in the books. In the TV show, he is healed by Max and becomes an ally to the Pod Squad. Valenti - On TV, he becomes an ally of the Pod Squad and he has a much better relationship with Kyle. Character Comparisons Among Different Characters Cameron/Courtney - Both were attracted to Michael and seemed to have led mobile and lonely lives. The attraction Michael had to both of them seemed to be more physical than emotional. Michael's feelings towards Courtney seemed to be much less romantic than towards Cameron. Nikolas/Isabel vs. Kivar/Vilandra - Both relationships lead Isabel/Vilandra to betray her brother and Michael. Obviously, things became more extreme with Kivar. Tess/Adam - Both came between Max and Liz, although in Tess's case it was more intentional than in Adam's. Both are aliens who grew up using their powers so they are stronger than the Pod Squad. Neither grew up with a healthy family life. They also had different attitudes towards the entire group, humans and aliens. Sean/Adam - Both grow closer to Liz when she isn't with Max, and both have been isolated from society (Sean in juvie, Adam in the compound). Sean is human and supposedly a bad boy, while Adam was an alien and very innocent and unsure of himself. Ray or Nikolas vs. Nasedo - Nasedo has Nikolas's attitude
towards humans, while Ray liked humans and would probably never have
killed one. But both took the position of protector for the Pod Squad.
Both Ray and Nasedo were stranded and alone on a strange planet. Although
Nasedo did share Nikolas's contempt for humans, he was afraid of some of
them, unlike Nikolas. The parents - In the books the parents tend to notice that their children are missing more than on the TV show. However, in both versions there are convenient incidents off parental ignorance. (In the TV show, Valenti and Amy seemed to become more aware of what their children were up to in Season 2, and the Evans parents led a full-fledged investigation into Max and Isabel's secrets in Season 3). Book Valenti/Pierce - Both head the organizations that are the human threats to the Pod Squad. Mr. Manes/TV Valenti - Both followed the same story arc - enemies at first but later helping the Pod Squad. For both, the real goal was protecting earth from hostile aliens and they assisted the teens once they realized they weren't a threat. And both were inclined to trust the Pod Squad after they helped save their son. Clean Slate/Special Unit - Both are organizations that provide human threats to the aliens and have ties with the government. However, each captures a different alien (Clean Slate/Michael, Special Unit/Max), and treats them differently. Nikolas/Nicholas - Both had an instant connection with Isabel, and both were aliens with a low opinion of humans. Nikolas/The Dupes - Both seem to know more than the Pod Squad. Nikolas was better with his powers, and the Dupes appear to know more about their past lives. One difference is that Nikolas had the Stone of Midnight, but the Dupes don't have the Granolith. Laurie Dupree/Trevor - Both filled a void in Michael's life by providing him with some "real" family and helped him open up emotionally. He is separated from both of them, although by very different circumstances. Grant/Nikolas - In both cases, only Isabel liked him. Both died, and both represented a way to rebel against Max. However, Grant represented her human side to Isabel, while Nikolas represented her alien side and the freedom to enjoy it. Tess/Trevor - Both were the only one of the alien group to return to the home planet. Also, both seemed to betray the Pod Squad. Trevor went to DuPris's side, but eventually realized the error of his ways, and helped stop DuPris and rescue the others. Tress killed Alex and worked with Kivar (who eventually betrayed her in response). Nikolas/TV Kyle - Both encouraged Isabel to use her powers to have a good time. However, Nikolas's contempt for humans led to all of them being in danger, while Kyle would be unlikely to do that. Ray/Kal Langley - Both Ray and Kal encourage Max to give up on trying to find his way back to the home planet, and both tell Max that he should think of earth as his home. Plus, both shapeshifters seem to be fond of human life. Some differences are that Ray is genuinely fond of Max and helps him because he wants to, while Kal doesn't like Max and only helps because he has to follow direct orders. Also, as far as we know, Ray never killed anyone, while Kal did. Miscellaneous Comparisons Granolith/Stones of Midnight - Both are alien artifacts of immense power and a certain amount of versatility. Healing Stones/Crystals and the Balance Coma/Akino - In both cases we have an alien illness that is cured by an alien device that helps the user tape into the energies of other beings. But the ailments affect different podsters (Coma/Michael, Akino/Max and Isabel). Gandarium/Collective Consciousness - Both are alien entities comprised of individual creatures which are connected and work together. Both are a threat to the Pod Squad. Gandarium Queen/Grant vs. DuPris as Puppetmaster - In both cases, their actions were controlled, but there was some level of resistance to the control. Collective Consciousness/Max vs. Larek/Brody - The body is taken over by a supposedly good force to accomplish its objectives and is then released (or we assume Max would have been released once he got back the Stone). The Friendships - In the books, the friendships seem much closer because of the connection. The books have more of an "us against them" feel than the TV show, and the Pod Squad manages to act more like typical teen-agers. The members of the Pod Squad never had to kill anyone in the books, unlike the TV show. Aliens vs. Hybrids - In the books, the aliens are not hybrids and there are no changed humans with powers. The aliens in the books are not genetically engineered like they are on the TV show. Perhaps that is why they all have the same powers in the books, while in the TV show they seem to be more specialized. Dangers - In both the TV show and the books, the human threat (Special Unit/Clean Slate) is dealt with and replaced by an alien threat (Skins/Dupris). Politics - In both, the political situation on the home planet is not as simplistic as it first seems (Michael-worshippers, Trevor). Collective Consciousness/Memory Retrieval - Both were ways for Max to embrace his alien side, and both caused him to grow distant from Liz and his other friends. Collective Consciousness/Mommygram - Both were instances of the aliens on the home planet wanting to use Max and the other aliens to accomplish their purposes, without caring about the teens' feelings or wants. Name of the high school - In the TV show, the teens attend West Roswell High School, while in the books, they go to Ulysses F. Olsen High (which could be shortened to UFO High ). Welcome to the thread and start discussing! |
| Posted 07-04-2002 09:15
PM by shapeshifter
Anla, Thank you Sooo much for starting this new thread!!!! The last thread is now archived here.
He was the one who always got asked questions like that. He was the one his friends turned to. "I have no idea," he admitted, forcing himself to look at her as he answered. It is also an example of the contrast of the books and the show because in the show I don't think Max ever "admitted" he didn't know what to do. I'll be back with more later. |
| Posted 07-05-2002 03:39
AM by quickdraw
Thank You Anla for the new thread I enjoy this discussing thread it brings out so many Ideas and new ways of describing our characters Shapeshifter Again, you find the right quote to start with Your last comment about Max's behavior in the show towards Michael, had possiably gave us a look at what tendicies that Zan was like when on Antar was very interesting. To guess at what they were like in their former life, like Isabel discovering her past as Volundra, It does open up who they were, and what kind of personality they once held on Antar. In the episodes of the "skins" and Courtney tells of Micahel should have been the leader of the people, it does open up ideas of what kind oa ruler that Max was. The books are a great look at how our characters/actors in Roswell High
are like... |
| Posted 07-05-2002 08:53
AM by Anla
No problem. shapeshifter - Good point. Even when Max didn't know what to do on the show (I'm thinking the start of Season 2 in particular), he tried to act like he did. Of course, at that time, that basically meant "act normal". I felt a little badly for him - he was trying so hard to pretend that he knew what he was doing, to hold everything together for the group, when he really didn't have a clue. I wished at time he had admitted it - it might have helped if he had learned to lean on the others earlier and to realize he couldn't do things alone, king or not. Especially since there really was no way for him to know what to do. That was a huge responsiblity to throw on a teenager with no real alien training. In the books, while Max is looked at as their leader, it wasn't an official position, so he probably didn't feel as obligated to stay in charge all the time. I guess the closest would be in Graduation when Max refuses to decide what the group is going to do about the renewed threat from the Special Unit, and instead says that he's not in charge and not a king, so he won't make the decision for the group. quickdraw - From the bits and pieces we've learned, it looks like all of the original Royal Four had some major personality flaws. I wish the show had gone into more detail with their past lives. |
| Posted 07-05-2002 04:06
PM by shapeshifter
The whole idea of the "The Royal Four" and their previous lives/personalities is probably the biggest difference between the show and the books--well, that and Max going for another female, too. I'm rereading Book 8 now, where Trevor and the politics of the home
planet come into play. This book was written (I think) after the show had
begun. The show's politics were so much more mythological rather than
sociological. |
| Posted 07-07-2002 04:55
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - I never made the connection about both Pierce and DuPris using fake accents. Very observant of you. |
Posted 07-08-2002 04:20
PM by shapeshifter
Quote:Aww shucks! I just happened to be rewatching White Room about the same time I was re-reading books 7+. Okay, here's another: In book 9, chapter 4, Michael & Trevor are sparring with their powers in a dream that is soo like Rath & Max in MITC when Rath asks Max, "Are you flexin' on me?" In book 8, Trevor & Max fight it out, but it's more serious, life-'n'-death-ish. The dream in book 9 feels more like the NYC sewer scene where Rath is wacking balls with a hockey stick around. |
| Posted 07-10-2002 08:45
AM by Anla
Interesting observations. I have to go reread the whole Michael/Trevor dream interaction. I always rather hoped that we'd get to see more interaction between Michael and Rath on the show. All through season 3 I was hoping for the dupes to show back up again. Once they had started the whole "evil twin" thing, it would have been interesting to see how the Pod Squad dealt with their differences and similarities from their duplicates, psychologically. We got to see a little of that with Lonnie and Isabel, during their Vilandra talk. I was expecting Maria to run into the dupes again during her trip to New York, but it was not to be. |
Posted 07-10-2002 03:16
PM by Misha
Quote: Ok, this is the first time I come here, so sorry if I'm going to comment on something you have already cover (love the intro for newbies, by the way ) About that paragraph, well, Max does say "I have absolutely no idea" on the Hybrid Chronicles (Disturbing Behavior) -you are talking to a quote game maniac here Because he finally gave up on trying to decide what to do. One thing that I have noticed, both in the series and the books, is that *everyone* is expecting Max to say what to do, and will actually do it must of the time. Is like when you are working on group, there's always someone who is going to take the leadership sooner or later, and from that moment on, that place will be "taken". I really don't see Max saying "someone else take charge" -nor the books, nor the serie- but actually wanting the whole group to decide when it gets too tense or too dangerous. After all, he's the one who usually takes in consideration both consequences, goods and bads, for all of them, and not just for him alone. Sure, Michael wants to take the leadership in various episodes through all the show, but he lacks of control and cold thinking like Max does. And when Book Michael does, he actually has a better sense of what to do, but still, he does think that Max would be better in charge. Now I have said just too much... Nice thread!! Misha |
| Posted 07-10-2002 05:31
PM by shapeshifter
Anla, Yes, I was so anticipating the appearance of Rath in NYC when Maria went there. If nothing else, it would have been cool to have him pass by on a the street with Maria just not quite seeing him, a la the skateboarder at the end of Wipe Out. Quote: Welcome to our thread, Misha! Quote Maniacs are very welcome here. In Ask Not, Max also says:
Okay, I have been thinking about the Biggest Difference, and here's my
take (others welcome, of course): |
| Posted 07-18-2002 07:32
PM by shapeshifter
Just a couple of Book 10 things to compare: Michael has care of the stones, just like he has the orbs in Season one. Pages 61-2, Liz is visited in her dream by Max in the form of a dolphin when he's imprisoned by the Collective Consciousness. Liz is introduced to the "special" dolphin, "It's not from around here." Liz bringing Max back in book 10 is a lot like TV Liz bringing Max back in Chant Down Babylon. |
| Posted 07-19-2002 01:46
PM by Misha
Was I yelling at the book 10... "He's the Tree!! Darn it! He's the TREE!!!" Those memories... Anyway, I didn't see it on the list, so maybe you haven't discuss it, but do you think the TV pod squad sleeps just two hours like in the books? I mean, Isabel and Max were showed talking to each other at 3:00am (or watching TV) on a couple of episodes. But then again, Michael did arrive at Max's room at 3:00am and Max was sleeping... Any ideas? Misha |
| Posted 07-23-2002 07:37
PM by shapeshifter
Misha, it doesn't seem that the TV show used the 2-hour-per-night sleep pattern for the podsters. I rewatched Michael & the Great Snapple Caper yesterday, and he was totally exhausted having a job from 2 am to 7 am, then going to school, and then working part time at the crashdown. But it occured to me while I was watching that even if he only need the 2 hours, that would still barely leave that much, and he could be tired out. But still, if they did only need the 2 hours, it seems it would have been mentioned in that episode. Today I watched Significant Others. The relationship (or lack thereof) between Liz & her Dad is a mirror of the fight she had with him in the books, and finally we someone like Rosa is introduced--only it's Liz's Dad's dead high school girlfriend. I wonder if Melinda's being part of that season's writing team had anything to do with that plot surfacing. |
| Posted 07-23-2002 08:44
PM by ria1986
I don't know if I can ask that here, but are the books written in difficult english ? I'm french, but i'd like to start reading them in english... Thanks anyway Caroline |
| Posted 07-23-2002 09:06
PM by shapeshifter
ria1986, They are written for "young adults," which means the English is not too difficult. But there is a lot of American slang. If you get the books, you might find the old Transcripts - Explanation of words Threads useful: Thread 2 and Thread 3 I think Thread 3 mostly answers questions about the slang in the books that were asked by European fans. |
| Posted 07-23-2002 09:14
PM by ria1986
Thanks a lot ! I'm decided to buy them |
| Posted 07-25-2002 09:45
AM by Anla
Enjoy reading the books. So, I was watching parts of some Roswell episodes the other day, and saw Max and Liz at the miniature golf course. And the first thing I think of was Alex and Isabel at the miniature golf course in the second book. Sigh. Yet another sign of my Roswell "obsession" - I associate miniature golf courses with Stargazerness. |
| Posted 07-28-2002 01:53
PM by shapeshifter
Nearing the end of my summer marathon of watching all 3 seasons. I don't see where anyone previously mentioned that in A Tale of Two Parties Michael's reaction to being drunk is almost identical to the beginning Akino experience in the books with the heightened sensitivity to sound, site and other senses. He is thouroughly grossed out by Maria's perfume as weil. |
| Posted 07-28-2002 07:35
PM by Anla
Yeah, I remember thinking that about Michael's reaction to alcohol (that was one of the saddest things for me in this past season, by the way, and there were many to choose from). That and Liz's symptoms in Ch,ch,changes both seemed very akino-like. |
| Posted 07-29-2002 06:01
PM by shapeshifter
Anla, was it sad because of Maria wanting to be on a break? I thought it was sadder that either Liz didn't go with Max or Max didn't stay to help clean the Crashdown. Okay, here's a stretch of a comparison: on page 103 of The Wild One (book 2) Max is wearing a rhinestone-studded Elvis jumpsuit costume as part of his job in the UFO museum. On page 82 he had thought that he would never let his friends see him in it. But then on pages 104-5, Liz comes in, and she & Max get into this really deep, soul-searching conversation about Isabel and her dangerous boyfriend, ending with Max jumping into the Jeep, and then on the next 2 pages confronting Nickolas. Are we supposed to not know he's in the Elvis jumpsuit? I thought maybe Metz & Burns were making fun of the readers. In comparison, in I Married An Alien, Michael is obsessed with Bewitched reruns, and compares Samantha to Athena, the Greek Goddess of Wisdom & War. Huh??? That makes about as much sense as some of our analyses. And it's like our obsession. I thought the writers put that in there to make fun of us. Okay, it's a lame comparison. A more parallel one would be the Elvis Suit with the Giant Alien head Max wore in The Convention. Hey Larry, you still around? One more thing from my marathon all-season watching: In Ch-ch-ch-Changes Max & Michael dig up the alien book translation from which Max learns that the healing stones will boost his powers. Too bad he didn't just read the Metz books. Or, maybe too bad the book aliens didn't have the alien book translation to instruct them. |
| Posted 07-30-2002 04:35
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - While I had problems with the way the entire Michael & Maria break-up was done (I felt that the show didn't develop that storyline well at all, but then again, I wasn't terribly fond of the way any of the Season 3 storylines were developed), it was mostly that I just don't like seeing my favorite fictional characters in pain, and Michael was in so much pain. For Michael, of all people, to intentionally try to get drunk, disregarding his own history and the fact that he knew how dangerous it was for an alien to get drunk (and in general, Michael's the alien who is the most paranoid about using his powers in public and getting caught) - well, there was something seriously wrong there. And then there was the scene where everyone was celebrating "midnight". Michael's standing alone in the doorway, watching everyone else out in the Crashdown, and he just looks so alone. It reminded me of Michael standing behind the tree in The Morning After, watching Max and Isabel playing basketball with their parents. It made me sad. Throughout the entire break-up, there just weren't many instances of his friends expressing concern for what Michael was going through (at least not for any reason other than concern that his out-of-control emotions might cause his powers to reveal themselves to Max's father). Admittedly, Michael's not the most likely person to confide in anyone about his feelings, but I would have liked to have seen some more attempts made. That said, I have to give credit to Liz. In both BTM and AToTP, Liz was a really good friend to Michael and was there for him. I really liked that. It reminded me more of the friendships in the books, something which I also loved in the first two seasons of the show, but which I felt was somewhat lost in S3. Well, you asked. (And you know I can babble about Michael ) |
| Posted 07-30-2002 07:21
PM by shapeshifter
Anla, well stated! Yes, when Michael was all alone on New Years, it also made me think of him crying in the rain and his whole sad childhood. I find rewatching Season 3 is better than when it was first airing because I know where it's going and because I don't have to wait up to 6 weeks until the next episode. I just assume there's a lot of stuff going on off screen to the characters that fills in the gaps--especiall, as you say, Anla, with the relationships. I just watched Panacea and Chant Down Babylon. Max being trapped inside his own body that is not his own is almost straight out of the last books when the Collective Consciousness takes over. Have you read Little Green Men? I am rereading it. There is a
major CHAD in it. Max's blood is really important to the plot, but not
once does anyone wonder if the other aliens' blood would be equally
effective. |
| Posted 08-01-2002 01:48
PM by Misha
shapeshifter I thought that too about Little Green Men. All the time I was thinking "ok, next page, someone is going to ask Michael to do something with his own blood... maybe Tess???" I mean, sure Isabel couldn't do a thing... And, if it was only Max's blood that could "cure" the thing, why did all the aliens "activate" the blue cells? (It was all the aliens right?) And if not, Isabel shouldn't be worry about her presence activating them either... Someone said that she hadn't liked the way the writers had hint something between Max and Tess, but I actually did like it. I'm a dreamer, but granted, this was before Heart of Mine, so, it was obvious were things are going... I like *that* continuity And with the whole Michael being drunk, yeah, I too thought: "can someone say akino??" Misha |
| Posted 08-04-2002 09:02
PM by shapeshifter
Rewatching Graduation I noticed the parallel of the parting of ways with Book 10 when they open the wormhole the last time. In both, Isabel separates from her current romantic interest. And in both, Alex has been permanently relegated to 'friend' status--both ghost Alex in the show, and returned-from-the-almost-dead Alex in the books. BTW, I have trouble with the separations in the show. Why would Isabel tell her husband not to come with her when Maria was coming along? I guess because he had a $350K/yr. job offer? More importantly, why would Kyle be coming along and not his dad? This leaves Valenti all alone to deal with his possibly emerging powers. |
| Posted 08-08-2002 05:24
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - I was afraid that I was just doing my usual Michael babbling. Glad to know that I made some sense. And I've done the whole off-screen, fill-in-the-blank thing in my imagination, too. I love Roswell, but the show has some major plot holes and unresolved storylines. I actually liked the ending of the show, with the six of them going off together in the van. However, I realize that was more of an emotional response and I try hard not to think too much about little things like whether or not Valenti's going to start showing alien powers or how Liz got her journal in order to ship it to her father. There was just something so satisfying for me in seeing them all go off like that, reaffirming their friendships. (And I was glad that Jesse didn't go, but that's just because I had so many problems with the Isabel/Jesse storyline.) I like to believe that at some future point, Book Alex and Book Isabel get back to being more than just friends. I just always love Alex, and I think he was good for Isabel, in both versions. I haven't read Little Green Men yet. I looked for it in my regular bookstore, and didn't find it. I'll have to look again. Are the characterizations done well? I can forgive much in the plot if the characters are believable and likable. |
| Posted 08-08-2002 06:11
PM by Misha
Anla Yep, they act pretty much like you would expect. The way they act and take decisions does feel believeable (sp?) according to the situation they are in, and that's why it is a good Roswell book. About Graduation, yes, there are a lot of plot holes, but I'm lucky enough to not think about them when I'm rewatching the epi, or to just laugh at them and be glad to at least have some sort of final to the serie. That was all I wanted with the end: an *end*. And it is true, Book Alex and Isabel not being together was kind of "gee, not even in here??", and even Alex *was* a great guy, that's why Isabel didn't deserve him, but that's just my opinion Misha |
| Posted 08-10-2002 08:38
AM by Anla
Misha - Okay. I'm definitely going to have to go looking for Little Green Men again. In my imagination, Book Alex and Isabel stay very good friends and then start dating again in a year or two, and then stay together and live happily ever after. |
| Posted 08-10-2002 09:21
AM by shapeshifter
Anla, the characters in the spin-off books do speak like the characters in the show. The ending situation between Alex & Isabel in the books is pretty realistic for real life teen relationships in Western society--rarely are they with the person you marry. Interestingly, the death of Alex in the show is prophetic of the real loss of America's innocence (and lives) in Sept. 11. The spin-off book No Good Deed is very much like a fanfic in
that it takes 2 scenes from the show & then goes off on a 'what if?'
it had turned out differently. It is based primarily on Max's healing the
cancer ward kids, and 'what if' scam artists or parents of other sick kids
acted on it. |
| Posted 08-10-2002 10:40
AM by Anla
I much preferred No Good Deed to the first show spin-off book. I don't recall coming across any major plot discrepancies, and I liked how they dealt with the fallout of the Christmas "miracle". Although I'm still wondering if the spin-off books are supposed to be part of the official storyline or not. Valenti's annoyance at the kids for not telling him about the Christmas hospital visit in No Good Deed reminded me of his scene in VLV. I honestly think that Valenti's speech to them in the hotel room is my favorite Roswell scene ever. The looks on their faces were so perfect, and the way they're looking down, all ashamed and shuffling their feet - I loved Valenti as father figure to the group. |
| Posted 08-10-2002 11:15
AM by shapeshifter
Anla, ITA that TV Valenti was an outstanding, all-round role model. A lot of "fans" complain that JK wrecked the story, but I doubt they would argue that what he did with the character of Valenti was anything less than a tremendous contribution to TV culture. |
| Posted 08-10-2002 02:56
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - The Valenti story arc in Season 1 is one of my favorite bits of Roswell character development. The show took him from a menacing villain, opposing the aliens, to their dedicated protector, and it made perfect sense. It was done gradually and consistently, and at no time was I left confused and wondering "Where did that come from?" Valenti and Michael both changed so much over the first two seasons, but their character development was so well-done and believable. |
| Posted 08-11-2002 06:52
PM by shapeshifter
Anla, I think the character of Tess had potential to be equally believeable in her evolution--but it seems her character, Alex, Amy Deluca, and others all suffered the fate of the Television Axe brought on by the loss of the actor due to career changes, backstage upstaging, network interference, advertiser influence, etc. Back in the 1960's when Daren #1 in Bewitched was lost, they didn't kill him off, they replaced him with a look-alike. Same thing with Adam in Bonanza. I wonder why they never do that anymore. That's one big difference with books--a character doesn't get killed off because of an actor's contract. I'm still re-reading No Good Deed, and it has some interesting things, including verbalizing the dynamics of the Liz/Tess/Max triangle. That could have been good, but on p. 99 the author(s) have the exposition fairy played by a reporter hacking into a high school computer system and reading the psychologists' reports about the the kids' relationships. That is Sooo unbelieveable. I worked at a high school. That is just not possible. Oh, and this book was written before IMAA with the TV snoopy reporter. Also, on p. 87 in NGD: |
| Posted 08-15-2002 01:42
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - I agree that Tess had great potential for character development. I hated the character of Tess in Season 1. I was screaming at the tv after watching Destiny and hearing her ask Max (yet again ) "What do we do now?" Ugh. (I can get very emotional while watching tv - it helps me get out some stress, I think. ) But then as Season 2 went on, I started to really like her. I even thought I was starting to understand her. That moment in VLV when Tess is jumping up and down because she's so excited about being invited along with the group, seeing her experience her first Christmas - those things made me really start to see her as someone who was just trying to find a home for herself (very similar to Michael's search). And then Departure came around, and all that character development was gone in a moment. I still have unanswered questions about why Tess killed Alex, but I guess now I'm going to have to just rely on my imagination. That's one thing that's great about the books. We know what the characters are thinking and feeling, so we can understand their motives. Of course, television can do that as well. Roswell had some great performances over the years, moments when we in the audience could really see the emotions the characters were experiencing. (Some that come instantly to mind are Valenti in the Convention, Michael in ID, Max in Toy House while he's watching the video with his mother, and the entire cast in CYN.) |
| Posted 08-22-2002 05:55
PM by Anla
I was rewatching some Season 1 episodes the other day, and got to the part in Toy House when Isabel and her friends show up at the basketball game. She asks Alex if there's room for them in the bleachers, and he immedietely jumps up, of course, and starts moving people over so that there is room (I love that part - so very Alex ). Anyway, as Isabel was walking by the cheerleaders, I was thinking that if this was the book series, then she'd be over there as one of them. Which got me thinking about the differences in the two Isabels and their school personalities. Both are very popular, but TV Isabel isn't really a "joiner" (neither of the Evans children are, which was pointed out by their father in ITW). I guess this was a way for TV Isabel to keep further distance from the people around her, a way to protect herself. Of course, in Season 2 we find out that Isabel is involved in many charity events, but those were perhaps not with people who were her peers, people she went to school with and spent time with everyday. Isabel on the show was much more isolated from those around her, especially in Season 1 when we first got to know her. |
| Posted 08-23-2002 05:19
PM by shapeshifter
Anla, I remember having a "huh?" moment when Isabel The Christmas Nazi was revealed as the Mother Theresa of Roswell--it seemed so out-of-character with the Isabel whose friends disdained service in Leaving Normal. But Topolsky did tell us that her psychological profile was like that. Okay, a few more things from Book 1:
|
| Posted 08-23-2002 05:38
PM by forever_a_dreamer
Did anyone think about the book and tv show... youk now n the show how max had tess and in the book it was adam and liz.. so instead of max cheating on liz liz was cheating on max sorta!! |
Posted 08-23-2002 07:48
PM by Anla
Quote: Topolsky was actually pretty good at reading the group's emotions. I wonder what her agenda really was. She told Liz and Alex that getting rid of her wasn't really going to help them in the long run. Did she mean that she was more sympathetic to the aliens than the rest of the Special Unit? She did come to warn them in Crazy, but that could just as easily have been due to her own self-interest. The books had Alex's father, a Clean Slate agent who ended up helping the group. But he did it for Alex, not himself. Still, the well-being of the aliens didn't seem to be his first priority, although he claimed to have never wanted to kill them all. Maybe Topolsky was like that and didn't know how far the Special Unit was willing to go. Anyway, the best I can figure is that while Isabel liked to help out in charities and things because it was part of her personality to want to boss people around and "mother" them, she probably didn't go around talking about it with her "friends" at school. While working in the Crashdown would definitely have been noticed by the popular crowd, because they ate there. The difference between how she appeared to the outside world and who she really was - a common theme with Isabel throughout the series. (And part of the reason I could never buy into her marriage to Jesse was that I never knew how much it was the real Isabel in there, or the "normal" Isabel she wanted so desperately to be.) |
Posted 08-24-2002 06:21
PM by shapeshifter
Quote: Great catch on the similarities of the 2 characters. Both were more realistic in that they were neither totally good or evil. I think that if the actor who played Topolsky hadn't landed a bigger role on Angel, she could have figured into the show's plot nicely. My daughter was ranting about Tess today, and, like forever a dreamer, we started comparing her with Adam (because both came between Max & Liz), and I noticed that Tess was supposed to be under the evil influence of Nasedo, whereas Adam experienced the total take-over by DuPris (as well as the influences of the evil book Valenti). |
| Posted 08-25-2002 08:54
AM by Anla
Topolsky was a very effective adversary on the show, I thought. She was not as evil as Pierce, so there was some uncertainty about her motives, which led to good drama. And there's just something about the way the actress does the enemy with a sweet little voice that always freaks me out (both as Topolsky and Darla). Adam/Tess comparisons: Well, I don't really think of them as being the same, because Adam never meant to come between Max and Liz. In fact, several times in the books he thinks that he shouldn't like Liz because she's Max's girlfriend. While Tess, on the other hand, set out deliberately to break up Max and Liz. And I don't personally buy Tess's excuse that everyone should be understanding of her killing Alex because she was raised by a cold-blooded killer. She still killed Alex, and that was long after Nasedo was out of the picture. Unlike Adam, who had absolutely no control over what was done with his body, poor guy. But, if I look at it objectively, without allowing the fact that I really liked Adam and am furious at Tess for killing Alex, I guess I must admit they served somewhat similar plot purposes. (It's amazing how emotional I still can get about this show. ) |
| Posted 08-25-2002 11:30
AM by Larry Bradford
ANLA...in case you didn't know there were 5 books of the series in original covers. They have stunning, mysterious art work for the covers. I was able to find 4 of the 5 online in mint condition, but have had a lot of difficulty finding the 'Intruder'. I was very fortunate in locating 'The Outsider' in original cover hardback edition. My personal opinion is they should have stayed with the original cover format. Roswell High is raised letters and very distinctive on the cover. Online they refer to the hardback edition as Library Edition. So if your interested they are definitely 'jewels'. |
| Posted 08-27-2002 03:34
PM by Anla
Larry Bradford - Did they only release the first five books with the original artwork covers? I had thought they'd had all ten, but since my set all has the WB pictures from the show, I didn't know for certain. |
| Posted 08-27-2002 08:51
PM by Larry Bradford
ANLA...the original 1-5 were released by Archway Paperbacks, published by Pocket Books. Then when the Roswell series started Pocket Pulse re-released the first 5 and continued 6-10 using the Roswell actors on them. When all 10 had been released Pocket Pulse printed a number of hardback copies for libraries using the original artwork. I have seen all 5 original artwork copies in hardback but they were pulled from libraries and are being sold online. My copy is mint from the manufacturers warehouse. You should be able to find them at http://www.bibliofind.com/ and if you check all of the sellers you will be able to find them all in used condition for $2 each. I have seen #7 in hardback but it is Roswell series artwork. When I started looking there were 264 sellers now it is well over 500. To me it was worth the hunt. Sometimes they will show a photograph and you will immediately know the original artwork. |
| Posted 08-30-2002 09:30
PM by shapeshifter
Larry, I did a search at abebooks.com for author "metz" and title "intruder" and came up with a list of 12--the 2 from the UK had different ISBN's, and since the "I" in ISBN stands for "international," I would guess that the UK editions might be the original covers. The end of book one is replayed in both the finales for Season 1 &
2. I'm not sure if Season 3 follows the end of the first book in anyway. I think with Metz & Burns on board they just went for the end of the series with Liz bringing Max back--in both she lays on top of him. |
| Posted 08-31-2002 12:27
PM by Anla
Thanks for the information on the original covers. I think I'll stick with my copies with the show pictures (because I like to have a matching set - it took me forever in the book store when I was buying the LotR books because I was going through the 5 or 6 different editions they had trying to find the versions of the three books that went together ), but I might like to look at the original pics just to see what they looked like. |
| Posted 09-01-2002 07:19
PM by candygrrl24
I was unaware that some of the books came out after the show. Though I've never seen the books with the originl artwork. Also, I don't think that Adam was a lot like Tess. I didn't like Tess. She was awful. I don't think she even really loved Max. She just liked being a b****. Adam, on the other hand, fell in love with Liz and couldn't help it and he felt bad about it during some parts because he was friends with Max. Adam was so sweet. It depressed me majorly when he died. Plus, I really dislike Tess. Firstly, I'm a little bit of a Dreamer. Secondly, she kills Alex (with made me really mad). And thirdly, if you listen closely during Crazy, she doesn't like the movie "Notting Hill" and I liked that movie. So now I'm just mad. Thank you. |
| Posted 09-02-2002 07:01
AM by Anla
candygrrl24 - While Tess and Adam were each other romantic partners for Max and Liz, I agree that their differences outweighed their similarities (as I said already - I repeat myself sometimes ). I went back on forth on the Tess character during the first two seasons, but as she was finally developed, I gotta go with not liking her, personally (although I thought the character had much more potential than was developed, and actually 4A&AB was one of my favorite eps in Season 3). She ended up being a villain, killing Alex and trying to get all the aliens killed by Kivar (even though that storyline still doesn't make sense to me ). While Adam on the other hand was just the sweetest guy. I was upset when he died, too. Poor Adam. |
| Posted 09-05-2002 06:22
PM by shapeshifter
On re-reading The Wild One, I am thinking that Nickolas in the books is more like Tess. They were both the "4th alien" who arrived on the scene and immediately came between an alien and a human couple, using sexual temptation and appealing to the alien's sense of being 'the other' in a human world. They were both very arrogant too. And Nickolas and Tess both died violent deaths, though Tess's death is a bit more questionable. Interestingly, even though Nickolas was painted with the totally evil brush while Tess had moments of niceness, Nickolas didn't actually kill anyone, whereas Tess did. Actually, there was a very high body count in Wipe Out. I'm waiting until after my birthday to buy Shades in case some family
member actually decides to break down & feed my addiction. In the mean time, have any of y'all read New Beginnings? |
| Posted 09-06-2002 02:43
PM by Anla
shapeshifter - You know, since the Tess revelations in Departure, I'm not so sure about that high body count of Skins in WO. After all, we know that Nicholas survived. And Tess can make people see things that aren't real. So I'm not 100% convinced that she really did kill all those Skins. I'm now only about 80% or so. Maybe 90% on days when I'm thinking that the Skins had really complicated inner politics. I would have been much more comfortable with that whole thing if either Max or Tess had bothered to actually ask Nicholas how he was still alive and get us an explanation. Still, even if we take everything at face value, I think the difference between Tess's and Nikolas's actions were that in WO, Tess was obviously acting in self-defense. Not to mention that she claimed to have only been trying a mindwarp and that she didn't know what really happened. While Nikolas didn't kill anyone, he came very close more than once, and with people who were innocent and who weren't a threat to him (Liz, the security guard at the mall). And I don't think it would have mattered or bothered Nikolas if he had killed them. He was pretty unbothered by feelings of conscience or empathy for others. I like your comparison of Tess with Nikolas. I'm actually much more comfortable with that than Tess and Adam. Max felt drawn to Tess right away, without understanding it, and without much of a basis for the relationship at first, the same way that Book Isabel was drawn to Nikolas. I think those responses are much more similar than Adam's crush on Liz. |
| Posted 09-07-2002 07:10
AM by shapeshifter
Anla, good point on Tess's murder-in-self-defense vs. Nickola's murder-for-sport. Actually, I was thinking of Tess (and others) hitting the skins' destruct buttons rather than her fire-bomb since she didn't seem to really premeditate it--but your point applies even more to whapping attacking skins. In the third book, Liz is as angry at Max for wanting to be "just
friends" (because he wants to protect her) as she is angry at him in the
show for sleeping with Tess. I wish the show had stuck with the book's
line on that one. It would probably still be on the air. |
| Posted 09-07-2002 04:50
PM by Anla
Never mind. My computer is being wierd today. Double post. |
| Posted 09-07-2002 05:04
PM by Anla
Okay, I'm going to try this again, and see if it actually manages to post this time. shapeshifter - Sorry about that. The first thing I think of when I think of WO is Tess doing her Firestarter routine there at the end. But you're right about there being plenty of other Skins getting killed in that episode, and by several characters (Tess, Valenti, and Kyle that I can think of). But that was all self-defense, so I don't put it in the category of Nikolas's casual violence against any humans who got in his way. (It does go along with the increased darkness and violence in the tv series that we've discussed before. Of course, the books had some violenct, too. I remember how freaked I was when reading the part where the collective consciousness used Max's body to attack DuPris in order to get the Stone of Midnight back.) I really felt for poor Liz in that part of the books. While I know that Max was just trying to protect her and all that (much like Michael's "I love you too much" walk-away in Destiny), it must have been beyond frustrating for Liz to have someone else making decisions about her life like that. I didn't blame her at all for being angry with Max. |
| Posted 09-10-2002 11:06
AM by Misha
That beginning of book #2 was hilarious, and the whole "Just friends" with Maria talking about cats before, ouch! and One thing that was very consistent through all the books was Maria's aromatherapy (I still have problems pronouncing that...), and that started on the show, but was left by... hm... in ID?? I know there's another episode where Maria uses her cedar oil, but it's out of my mind... Anyway, the Tabasco use was something I was always looking forward as a back thing for scenes involving food too. Other thing I was reading on book #5 was that Max was getting jelous of Adam (I think the page is 101 where Maria tells him that he should smell her cedar oil, and he says that he doesn't think that is going to be enough). Anyhow, that made me wonder if TV Max was jelous of Kyle, or of Sean and he just accepted that he wasn't with Liz. After all, all the time that Max and Liz were together, there was no love interest for Liz aside. Of course, Liz being jelous of Tess is a whole other thing... And Book Liz never had to be jelous of Max, since he never had another love interest aside her. If anything at all, she was jelous of the consciusness, but in a whole different bases. Did I just make sense?? Misha |
| Posted 09-10-2002 01:29
PM by Anla
Okay, trying again (this thread and my computer really don't seem to be getting along these days ). I loved the whole tabasco thing. (I'm kind of glad, though, that the show left out some of the aliens' more unusual food combinations. ) And what I really liked about it was that the tabasco was there from the start, and then was explained in Riverdog. I really liked that whole scene - the "sweet and spicy" thing wasn't a huge big deal, but it was a consistent part of the aliens' lives, and when a chance came to naturally explain it, they did. (And the fact that Michael looked good while eating that chocolate cake did have something to do with my appreciation of the scene. ) |
| Posted 09-10-2002 04:17
PM by shapeshifter
Anla, The graphic violence in the books was a little too much for me too. I guess they would never do that in a teen tv show--maybe zapping the skins' destructo buttons was supposed to be the equivalent.
Quote:In the show, early on, they referred to the oils as something of her mom's. That let us know they were giving her mom the role of herbalist. And it's not unusual for high school kids (or even older adults) to go through phases (um...me..Roswell?). But, yeah, hmmm..., I think the smelly oils might have reappeared during Season 3 when Dianne Farr (Maria's Mom) wasn't available to play the part.
Quote:Definitely Tess took over the role of the Collective Consciousness with regards to Liz being jealous. Book 3 has Sooo many sci fi elements that appeared in the show that I can't help but wonder which writers read which books (Katims states that he only read book 1). Some things are generic sci fi, but in the show, Max's sleeve is burning in the Bunsen burner flame when Tess is mindwarping him, and in the book, Max's finger is bubbling in the Bunsen burner flame when the Collective Consciousness is taking over his mind. Also from Book 3, Maria gets flashes from the stone like Michael did
from the key in the show. |
Posted 09-12-2002 04:34
PM by Anla
Quote: Good point. The self-destruct buttons (which didn't make a whole lot of sense to me from a sci-fi perspective, but then, the whole concept of the Husks and Skins wasn't explained in too much detail) did make for less gore when the Skins were killed. No bodies left behind, too, which was helpful when trying to cover up the fact that the town was invaded by evil aliens when sucked into an alternate time zone. So it didn't gross me out while watching. (Some tv shows I simply can't watch while eating. I loved the X-Files and watched it regularly for years, but no way would I try to eat while viewing an episode.) But still, the show (especially in Season 2) had a much higher body count than the books.
Quote: Even down to the confusion over whether they were friend or foe. The Collective Consciousness seemed like a friendly organization at first, helping save Max's life. It was only later that they learned how dangerous it was. And throughout her time on the show, there was debate (both among the characters and the viewers) about whether Tess was actually trying to help the group or not. I know that I personally went back and forth on the Tess issue during the first two seasons. |
| Posted 09-12-2002 07:36
PM by shapeshifter
Speaking of the Collective Consciousness, is it just me, or is the biggest CHAD in the book series the fact that Ray, who says he went through the Akino, was no zombie?
Quote:Me too. And Topolsky too. My daughter & I rewatched Crazy last night, and she kept bugging me about whether or not Topolsky was telling the truth, and I kept saying, "I don't know!" because I still don't know. Did she know she was Pierce's pawn but was too terrified? I guess she was an example of a double/triple agent who lost her identity. Well, off to watch Tess, Lies, and Videotape. Oh, and I not only got Shades for my birthday, but Roswell
High Times too, which is much better than I thought it was--wish I'd
bought it earlier. My mom & my daughter teamed up to get them.
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| Posted 09-14-2002 11:59
AM by Anla
shapeshifter - All things can be related to Roswell, can't they? About Ray and the Collective Consciousness - I always just figured that the CC only made zombies of its members and took them over completely when it was considered necessary. So, without feeling the need to retake the Stone of Midnight, they never had to take over Ray like that. But I wonder if Ray ever even knew about the resistance movement against the CC? He doesn't seem to view the CC as anything but a positive when he's talking to Max. Was that because he really believed it? Or was it a making the best of a situation type deal, since he didn't believe Max could survive without joining the CC? Another question I wondered about was why things like eating candy bars was such a new experience for the CC when they experienced it through Max. Surely Ray would have eaten that type of candy bar over the years - he seemed like the type to really enjoy things like that. Maybe Ray knew some trick to distance himself a bit from the CC, and he just didn't have time to let Max in on it. Good question about Topolsky. I personally always thought that she was telling the kids the truth in Crazy. When she's captured by Pierce at the end of the episode, she's so terrified. I figured that she was genuinely trying to help them out in Crazy (although more from wanting to save herself than from any sympathy for the aliens). But when did this change of heart happen? When she was "questioned" by the Special Unit after leaving Roswell, or beforehand? She did tell Alex and Liz that they hadn't helped anything by making her leave town. Was she already leaning towards wanting to help them out? I've been wanting to get the Roswell High Times book, but none of the bookstores I've looked in has it. |
| Posted 09-14-2002 07:02
PM by shapeshifter
Anla, good analysis of Ray's connection to the CC. And yeah, good point that the CC should have already tasted candy via Ray--well, maybe not that particular type. Until the podsters met Ray, they'd never liked Lime Warp soda, so maybe he had different taste preferences. About Topolsky--maybe she always had an open mind towards the aliens, that they could be dangerous or they could be more like ET. This would be unlike show Valenti when Max asked if the Sheriff was going to read him his rights & Valenti asked if Max even had any (meaning he was not a citizen of Earth). If Topolsky did have that sort of liberal mindedness, it would also be very different from Pierce or book Valenti--but maybe a bit like book Alex's dad. My mom & daughter got Roswell High Times from Amazon, but I'm sure a bookstore would order it for you too. The author is Keith Topping. It's got lots of cool details. But the author is British, and so far I found at least one Americanism he didn't quite get. It seems that when Lonnie told Alex, "No 3-way tonight, Opie," that Topping didn't recognize Opie as a character from the Andy Griffith Show. I would like to see a book, movie, or miniseries version that redoes the whole thing and has Tess be a part of the Collective Consciousness that only Max can see--the seduction would not be so physically real, but Liz would still have to deal with his distraction. |
Posted 09-16-2002 06:41
AM by Anla
Quote: That's true. Ray may just not have tried that type of candy. But I don't know - Ray just struck me as the type to have tried pretty much everything, all the different foods and drinks and music around him. I think it was the whole Lime Warp scene that gave me that impression, in fact. Well, and then there's the whole dressing up as Elvis. Ray seemed like a guy who lived life to the fullest and liked to try out new things. But maybe it was a new candy, and he hadn't gotten to it yet. Very intriguing idea about Tess as part of the Collective Consciousness. Now that would have been interesting to watch. |
| Posted 09-16-2002 07:31
AM by Cheerpop
things that bugged me the most about the books was that some names were different and that Max was supposed be blond and Michael black... i always had to ignore those parts and the collective consiousness began to bug me after part 5 too cause max wasnt Max anymore |
| Posted 09-16-2002 10:15
AM by Anla
Cheerpop - The only one of the differences that really threw me when reading the books was Max being a blond. For some reason, I could picture every other character as they were described in the books, but I just kept imagining Jason Behr as Max. The second time I read the books, though, I was able to imagine Book Max as he is described in the books (probably because by that time in Season 2, TV Max had evolved so differently than Book Max that I was better able to differentiate between the two). |
| Posted 09-20-2002 03:45
PM by shapeshifter
Anla & cheerpop, ITA that trying to read Max as blond with electric blue eyes is the hardest--perhaps this either testifies to JB's performance or the importance of Max in the books? My daughter & I rewatched 4Square & I am re-reading Book 4:
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| Posted 09-20-2002 04:43
PM by Misha
I'm glad we are finally on book 4. One thing I never understood about that book is why Michael is dreaming about hugging Isabel, and then he says in book 6 that it was because he had dreamt that he was at Max's funeral, and was then conforting Isabel. But Michael didn't know Max was dying when Liz, Maria and Isabel saw his dream. So, either he was having a "random" dream that just happened to be Max's very future, or Michael was lying to Isabel. After all, he did think about her like that while he was at the Compound. But then again, it could be only a CHAD... Oh, speaking of which, for those who have read Little Green Men, how much blood/plasma did Liz took out of Max again?? I was re reading parts of it, and at some point, she had given Michael, Kyle and Alex two "containers", then she gave Max, Valenti and Tess three, and she had other Two (if I'm right) in her room... plus the two she and Maria had??? That's what I call donating blood... Misha |