In the most strict sense, the Hero's Journey is a series of stages that a hero(ine) must go through during her adventure. It is flexible in that the stages are not clearly defined (see below) and that Campbell admits that one need not follow all the stages for it to be a true journey. There can be as many as 17 stages on the Campbellian Hero's Journey, and as few as 7 (though 13 or 14 is the most common and what has become accepted as the "standard"). The Hero's Journey (which I will refer to as HJ from now on) does not apply to an entire plotline, but rather to a character or several characters (the obvious HJ in Star Wars is that of Luke, but Han Solo also adheres to the HJ very closely).

As I said, almost all modern works of fiction adhere in one way or another to the HJ. Even authors who have never read Campbell's essay follow it; largely because the theory is an extremely effective and believable way of relating the adventures of a hero and after reading the theory it just seems ‘natural'.

Now obviously nobody in Roswell is done the HJ, they are only part way through. However, I think there is an interesting parallel, and it seems obvious to me that the writers are following the HJ closely. This allows the possibility of predicting future events, in no means would these be guaranteed to happen, but if the writers hold true to form I would consider them likely to occur. First I'll give the various stages of the (HJ) and then relate them to Max.

1./ Call to Adventure
The hero must first be forcibly drawn into the adventure, this occurs from a normal occurrence and not something strange or supernatural.

2./ Threshold Guardian
The hero must face a minor obstacle that blocks his way to the adventure.

3./ Wise and Helpful Guide
The inexperienced hero must find a guide who will aide him with advice and materials which will be instrumental in his journey.

4./ Into the Labyrinth
The hero must step out into the unknown and the ‘den of evil'.

5./ Heroic Deeds
The hero much engage in mortal combat, often sacrificing something or someone for the further good to continue his quest.

6./ Trials
The midway point of the hero's journey is marked by a series of trials, ordeals, tests and obstacles.

7./ Into the Belly of the Beast
A popular occurrence is the literal swallowing of the hero by some great beast. This often marks the entrance to a mythical world where a great transformation occurs. However, in most works the belly of the beast is a metaphor for a stronghold of the enemy.

8./ Sacrifices
The opening of the mind and heart of the hero requires he be prepared to (or in some cases does) sacrifice something of great import to him.

9./ Antonement
The hero's journey sometimes includes a "father quest". After many trials and ordeals, the hero finds his father and becomes "at one" with him. (Note, this is the step that would normally be eliminated to create 13 stages. It seems possible, even likely, that it will be included in Roswell so I include it here.)

10./ Return
The hero then returns to his home with newfound powers, knowledge or ability to benefit his people.

11./ Return of Evil
The hero is not the only one who is reborn, the forces of evil also reform and come anew.

12./ Enchanted Forest
The inhabitants of the enchanted forest are strange creatures who can be both helpful and dangerous. The hero must know how to get them to aid him on his quest. (Note, this is the second most likely step to be removed to create 13 stages, I keep it because firmly believe it will occur in Roswell)

13./ Heart of Darkness
The hero must enter the centre of power for evil in order to destroy it or its' leader

14./ Final Victory and Journey's End
In the end the hero triumphs over evil and brings forth something new, be it enlightenment, power, understanding or a whole new society.

Now how does this relate to Roswell? Well I am going to use Max as the example, he is the easiest to use, but one could also use Liz very easily and probably some of the other characters as well. In any case, I will list what stages Max has been through and what they were. I will then make some rather vague predictions for future episodes and even seasons. These _might_ be spoilers, so you might not want to read them.

1./ Call to Adventure
In this case it is Liz's shooting. Were it not for this, the Aliens would have remained hidden for a lot longer, perhaps until after the EAs had conquered the planet. Max has a connection with Liz and he heals her. That opens the floodgates, people take notice, and the adventure begins.

2./ Threshold Guardian
Obviously Topolsky. While it could potentially be Stevans, the foe is meant to be defeated quickly, and Stevans hangs around too long.

3./ Wise and Helpful Guide
Riverdog not only helps them discover their history, but he also gives them the stones and shows them the hieroglyphics.

4./ Into the Labyrinth
Here is the situation where the stages are rather subjective. You could think about this in many ways, it could be the beginning of his relationship with Liz, or it could refer to Max coming to understand his alien nature and his history. I think it is clear that this step takes place, the question is just what the step is in Max's case.

5./ Heroic Deeds
Again there is a question here not of if this step occurs, but rather when and how it does. Is this the episode "Destiny"? Is it something else? One might claim that his Heroic Deed occurs during "Blind Date" when he confesses his true feelings for Liz. One might claim that it is his leadership of Michael and Isabella and their journey to discover their heritage. In a sense, your opinion on what Max's heroic deeds are declares what you think the real major plot of the series is -- those that think it is Sci-Fi about aliens would argue it is either from the episode "Destiny", while those who think Roswell is more about love and relationships would argue it is "Blind Date".

6./ Trials
It depends on where you draw the line of Heroic Deeds, in any case, Max's Trials go from either "Blind Date" or "Destiny" up to (but not including) "Harvest". There are too many things to list here, but the continuing discovery of their heritage as well as the progress of Max's relationship with both Liz and the other characters. From Congresswoman Whitaker to the countless minor obstacles and problems the Royal Four face, Max faces and solves dozens of problems.

7./ Into the Belly of the Beast
In my mind this is the episode "Harvest", Max and the others go into the stronghold of the skins and come out alive as well as greatly changed.

So this is where we move from what has happened to what might/should/will happen in future episodes (and even seasons). Remember these are _predictions_. I'll continue to use the various stages of the Hero's Journey. I would also note that many of the coming stages could/do have two different sides: The Sci Fi side and the Love side (ie the Royal Four or Max and Liz).

8./ Sacrifice
Two takes here: A) Max gives up his claim to the throne or B) Max gives up Liz. The former is _extremely_ unlikely as it would effectively end the series, so I conclude that it is the second. We have already seen indications that Max does not believe that Liz slept with Kyle. My prediction would be that he finds out the real reason and even so gives her up for the good of humanity.

9./ Atonement
I really think that this step will occur in Roswell even though, as noted above, it is one that is often skipped. In my mind, Max will come to accept what he did wrong on his planet and come to understand himself, his powers, his strengths and his failing better. The episode "Max in the City" which comes up in a few weeks seems to indicate that Max leaves the Royal Four and Liz for some period of time (maybe he goes to LA or something), in my opinion this step will occur during this episode.

10./ Return
_If_ I am right about the previous step, then this will be self-explanatory. Max returns to Roswell a different person, more confident and more powerful (he may garner a better understanding of his powers or he may be more powerful in another sense).

11./ Return of Evil
Welcome back Skins...the Skins have lost their "husks", this would imply that they either get them back or find some way to overcome the need for them. I believe that the previous two stages will occur in a single episode and in quick succession. In this case, I believe the step may take several episodes and take place well into the future (probably at the end of this season but remember I am making educated predictions at best).

12./ Enchanted Forest
Almost definitely this would imply the newfound support of a group of different aliens. It may well be that a new set of aliens come to earth who support Max and the other Royal Four. Again, this would be _well_ in the future – not his season. There is also a second possible scenario here. The different and dangerous people _might_ refer to humans. It's iffy and would take the series _totally_ into the realm of sci fi, but it's a possibility.

13./ Heart of Darkness
This may imply that Max goes back to his homeworld, or it may just mean that he defeats the leader of the Skins on earth (can't remember his name at 3am).

14./ Victory
Pretty much self explanatory

I do want to say one thing here, Dreamers take heart, _nowhere_ is there a suggestion that Max and Liz do not get back together. In fact, Campbellian Hjs very often involve a situation like that we see with Max and Liz and they almost always get back together. I don't have a prediction for when, although after the step Return would be as good a time as any.

Further, remember that these stages do not have to all occur in one episode, no do they have to happen back to back. There can be _a lot_ of time (and episodes) between stages. The Star Wars trilogy is the exception rather than the rule when it comes to the HJ (in that they go right from stage three to stage four with nothing happening in between).

I would love to hear people's opinions on this correlation and if anyone thinks they can draw up an HJ for Michael, or Isabelle or Liz etc I would love to see it.

Anyway, I'm posting an HJ framework here for Liz. I think one of the lovely things about Roswell is the way her journey parallels Max's. Without going to far into my twisted theories, I'll say that I believe the following:

-There is more to Liz than anyone, herself included, believes.
-As different as Max's and her paths seem now, they will eventually meet in a common purpose.
-Despite being "Miss Scientist," Liz's greatest strength is her emotional connection to others. It has motivated most of her actions and will eventually be a major part of the ultimate resolution of her adventure, particularly as it relates to being with Max.

Now on with it...
1./ Call to Adventure
For Liz, this would also be the shooting and also the subsequent discovery of what Max, Iz and Michael are. Her adventure begins when she realizes that Max exposed himself by saving her.

2./ Threshold Guardian
I'm inclined to say Tess, because I believe the part of her that was a *major* obstacle to Liz has been or will soon be negated.

3./ Wise and Helpful Guide
Maria, in the long run and for a brief time Grandma Claudia.

4./ Into the Labyrinth
Liz's labyrinth is her entire relationship with Max and the rest of the aliens. It has totally knocked her off what she once thought to be her true path and brought her face to face with evil and danger (Pierce, Nasedo, Whitaker, etc.) I think that this was illustrated nicely in "Leaving Normal": " The tough thing about following your heart is what people forget to mention,that sometimes your heart takes you to places you shouldn't be, places that are as scary as they are exciting and as dangerous as they are alluring, and sometimes your heart takes you to places that can never lead to a happy ending."

5./ Heroic Deeds
I could spend the whole night writing about Liz's heroic deeds. Suffice it to say that they are numerous.

6./ Trials
Same as above. Her major trials thus far have all centered around trying to balance what her instincts say is right (being with Max) with a desire to do right by everyone else (including Max). She has dealing with the fact that the thing she wants most can basically damn everyone she cares about.

7./ Into the Belly of the Beast
"Destiny." Her Liz witnesses an event of great significance (the Mom-O-Gram), and this is what triggers her "great transformation." By that time, she's heard the podster's destiny from both Nasedo and Max, but it not until she is in the pod chamber (the belly of the beast) that she can actually bring herself to pull away from Max.

8./ Sacrifice
Are you kidding me? "The End of the World." Did I even need to say it?

I'll leave it here for now because the rest is veering off into speculation and it's late and i'm tired. Goodnight, folks.

Which brings me to my next point ... could you please be more careful about posting spoilers? I've worked very hard to stay unspoiled this season, and it's a little upsetting to come across them unprepared. (I was already scrolling down by the time your warning sunk in. Perhaps something a little more obvious?) Thanks.

Great insights, though.

I hope you will try to throw together some speculation tomorrow, if not I might give it a shot...

Sorry if it came across all nasty. I didn't mean to. And I certainly don't want you to get the wrong idea -- I love what you're doing here (what I've seen, anyways), and seriously do look forward to more insightful work.

I hope you will try to throw together some speculation tomorrow, if not I might give it a shot...

Oh no! I don't think her HJ is based totally on romance, but I'll get to that later. I love Max, but he's such a Hamlet. I'm intrigued by your dual HJ theory, though! There was something else, but of course I've forgotten. Oh well...I'll try to flesh out my Liz stuff some more tommorow. I really want to see one on Michael, though!

sasha

I wouldn't be surprised to see them go through these stages over and over again, continuing their growth as heroes.

I wonder if M&L will ultimately come to the point of sacrifice again, where they decide to use the granilith to travel back in time (Crashdown shooting?) to save the world. (Probably couldn't be until the series finale, a long way off please!)

Another option is to find their destinies are entirely different from what they thought and the hero process begins all over again.

In the meantime, Max has a long way to go before embracing any destiny, esp. to the point of sacrificing something/someone he loves. While Liz has already been there, done that.

Anyone else have theories as to where our heroes are headed?

4. Into the Labyrinth
This could be for Max, going back to high school, and facing not being invisible. The whole world is his labyrinth, he's stayed hidden, and because he wants a relationship w. Liz he moves out "from behind the tree" - - and one of the first consequences is that he gets beaten up.

5. Heroic Deeds
Could be some of the stuff Michael embroils him in - - "cleaning up his mess, as usual."

6. Trials
Could be being grilled by Topolsky, followed by the Special Unit agents, but finding a way to get to Riverdog anyway, and passing RiverDog's test.

7. The Belly of the Beast
Could be the cave, when they rescue Michael. Max brings his human friends into the cave for the healing ritual. The Stronghold of the Enemy, in that he faces his alienness, his differentness, and lets his friends see it, too; the Enemy is his fear that he is somehow loathesome, and that his friends will reject him. The hallucination is the mythical world, and a great transformation occurs. He faces his alien side and ...

8. Sacrifices
...Liz recoils. She shrinks from his touch, and from the healing ritual. Max takes a step back; he needs to know that she can accept both sides of him before he'll go further. He lets go of the idea that this will work out because he needs it to.

9. Atonement
Valenti! Max and Valenti start an uneasy rapprochement after Hubble. No, he's probably the enchanted forest guy.

I know! IT'S THE ORB! THe orb is his connection with his "father", or his origins. In Sexual Healing, Max goes on a quest, driven by the orb - - at least this time the adventures are sexual, and they lead to true sci-fi enlightenment, showing how the human and alien aspects of him are inseparable. "the more they connect, the more we find out." So his sacrifice paid off, too, because his love has returned and helped him to find his alien side.

10. Return
He returns home with the orb? Both he and Liz seemed at least to have gained in the ability to stand up to parents and friends, not to let themselves be led/ pushed around so much anymore. They are are stronger, more confident, more connected than ever before; they form a unified front to their parents. They are publicly together after that, officially a couple with all the dangers that might involve.

11. Return of Evil
Topolsky! bringing Pierce right behind her.

12. Enchanted Forest
OK, NOW it's Valenti! Valenti and Margolin (TicTac Nasedo) are both "strange creatures who can be both helpful and dangerous." Sheriff Valenti AND Kyle (who's less dangerous now that he and Max got drunk together, and he thinks Max got jilted). But the Sheriff is the real wild card, as he's dangerous and powerful, and we're never sure which side he's on in Season One.

Also, Nasedo is a quirky but powerful being, capable of great help or great harm. Max is successful in getting both Nasedo and Valenti to help him.

13. Heart of Darkness
It starts when Max enters the House of Mirrors! It's like the Hellmouth for Pierce - - he is nabbed by the henchmen of incredible evil, and dragged off into the center of Pierce's power. He escapes, leaving it damaged and the leader wounded; later, dead.

14. Victory
The Special Unit is defeated, Pierce is dead AND replaced, ushering in a period when the podsters won't have them to worry about any more.

That's why there was such a howl after Destiny aired - - we were being deprived of our mythic birthright - - the happy ending! Because as happy as everything is, Max and Liz get separated, and the HJ for season 2 - - "It has begun."

The miracle of modern television allows us to go through these ordeals every season!

The mention of an 'enchanted forest' brings Dante's La divina commedia to mind, whose themes can be similarly compared to those of Roswell, although in a more indirect manner. For these purposes, I'll compare the struggles of Dante to those of Max.

Dante (Max) perceives Paradise (a future with Liz, a normal life) in the distance, yet the direct path to divine enlightenment is blocked by three beasts (Max's obstacles being his alien origin). Virgil, the "guide", (who can, as in the case of HJ, be represented by Riverdog, or even Nacedo) tells Dante that in order to reach Paradise, he must first descend into the depths of Hell. (Thus, Max must resolve his conflicts with his 'destiny' to reach true happiness).

Dante's guide through Paradise was Beatrice, his true love. Liz can be symbolized similarly; the guide to Paradise and in Max's eyes, the path to true bliss.

I just wanted to show that the many similarities present between Roswell and Hero's Journey may not be intentional on the writers' part; the themes displayed in HJ are pervasive throughout not only many works of literature and film, but throughout life.

I don't have much to offer, except that I believe (though my memory of his work is a bit rusty) that Campbell was describing the myth patterns like the hero's journey in the context of the collective subconscious. I think what you describe is a journey being taken by all the developed characters in this story, at different times and at different stages (because everyone's journey is their own) and though there is lots of plot and action and actual events and sci fi, the journey is really emotional and psychological.

I'm a Jung junkie. I think what makes Roswell great for me is that in my mind, it's all about a journey toward self-awareness. Self-awareness requires us to confront ourselves, who we really are, look closely at what we do, figure out our motivations, be honest with ourselves, tell the truth, and seek the truth when it is not apparent. It's damned hard work.

And all of these characters are trying to learn bout themselves, don't you think? The ones who are not are the ones who are the "bad" characters, though I hesitate to call them evil, just unenlightened (CWW, Pierce, the majority of the Skins).

But ultimately, in the process of self-discovery, though this sort of shortcuts my theory, they are trying to find love. I don't mean love in the sappy high school romance way. I have trouble defining it, actually, but I think it has something to do with being consciously aware of yourself, who you are, and your place in the universe, and conscious of others and respectful of who they are, and not being afraid of showing yourself and being present and thoughtful and clear. That is the only way you can have real intimacy and trust with another person, if both of you are acting out of this place, rather than acting out of fear. I hope the connection I just made makes sense and my conclusion wasn't too abrupt, but, the logic proof would look like this, I think:

If fear is the absence of love,

And if what we as human beings seek is love,

And love is the ultimate power in the universe (go ahead and argue with me about this one, but I think it's borne out in the mythology you cite),

And love cannot be found without self-awareness,

And the process of self-awareness is the process of confronting our fear,

Then the process of finding self-awareness is the process of finding love,

Thus, finding ourselves is finding love,

Thus WE are love,

Thus, IT'S ALL ABOUT LOVE.

Ergo, this show, for all it's sci fi and politics, is really about love.

Or, as the Beatles said, All you need, is Love.

-WhirlingGirl

A glimmer of hope for all Dreamers out there, Liz's atonement stage will likely be some kind of reconciliation with Max. Whether this is an actual "get back together" or merely that he comes to understand what she did I cannot predict. I'm going out the door now or I would try to outline some predictions for the rest of her HJ later...probably Michael and Isabelle too.

quote:Originally posted by NyLoN:
[B]3./ Wise and Helpful Guide
The inexperienced hero must find a guide who will aide him with advice and materials which will be instrumental in his journey.

.....I think this was originally Nasedo, but might this now be Valenti?

4./ Into the Labyrinth
The hero must step out into the unknown and the ‘den of evil'.

...ok this I definately think is realizing all the deception that has been going on with the people close to him and the home planet. ie, Vilandra, issues between him and Michael...yada yada...

8./ Sacrifices
The opening of the mind and heart of the hero requires he be prepared to (or in some cases does) sacrifice something of great import to him.

... Straight up, he's going to have to give up his identity as Max and become something more than just a teenager who wants to live a normal life. Hiding in plain site is not going to do it! He's going to have to grow up and accept his role. He simply has no choice. The sacrifice is his own sense of identity - as it exists in the present. He has to stop fooling himself. He needs to give up his own self-deception ... that's a real hard sacrifice.

ok...that's all I can comment on cause I'm in a hurry and I'm into spoilers and might say something by mistake....But Max is definatly on a hero's journey.

I wonder if the Mods would allow a copy of this thread - or the opening thread to be carried over to the spoiler board where this could be discussed in relation to the SPARSE information we do have?

While I can see the "traditional" HJ manifested very clearly in Max, I think Liz is a much better example of the emotional HJ. Her relationship with Max is key in her journey, but it isn't the only issue she's dealing with (or needs to deal with!). Melinda Rose Goodin wrote a fabulous analysis of the emotional HJ for another work, and I'm posting parts of it it here with my thoughts on how it applies to Roswell. Goodin's words are in italics, mine are in normal text.

"The Hero's Journey can be physical or emotional. An emotional journey, such as usually occurs in a romance, takes the protagonist from her normal state of affairs and challenges her ideas, beliefs and
current existence. A proactive protagonist responds to such challenges, undergoing tests of her moral fiber and emotional strength. Frequently she will have to examine all that she has believed to be true before a major confrontation. It is here that she pulls victory from disaster. And it is here that she seeks to return to normalcy. Many writers believe this is the end of the journey. But it isn't.

You could find many other examples, but I'm pegging EOTW as Liz "major confrontation" since it was her actions here EOTW that really pulled "victory from disaster." The future was changed and (we assume) the events FM warned her of do not come to pass. At this point, she knows all she has gone through with (and for) Max has changed her, but believes that part of her life is over now. She's hoping that things can be relatively normal again, and will likely try to resume the life she had before Max. She will, of course, be unsuccessful.

"The protagonist has not finished learning the lessons of the journey until she has released the old beliefs that had her stuck at the beginning of the story."

The issue at the heart of Liz's HJ, the thing that she must overcome, is the myth of her own insignificance. She believes firmly in her ability to control her own destiny, but often dismisses the notion that she is any more than an obstacle to Max's journey. She's wrong. In EOTW, we learn that it is their love that damns them and those they care about. This is huge! Liz's romance, her emotional connection, determines the fate of the world. And ultimately, she is the one has the power to save everyone. Unfortunately, she doesn't recognize this power, only the fact she will be alone now. Her journey isn't over yet.

The final test often requires she let go of something she has cherished or hoarded for all of this time.

Now we get into my own speculation. Liz and Max's HJ's have intersected many times already, and I believe that they will evetually merge together. This is why I don't worry too much about their couple status. As I've said before, I think there is much more to Liz that we have seen and that her destiny is more important than she could possibly imagine. I think things she has accepted at face value her whole life will be turned upside down. Her ultimate sacrifice will be the belief that she is normal. Once she accepts that she is no longer "the smallest of small town girls," she will need to accept entirely new perspectives and responsibilities. At that point, the hero's journey that has we've seen unfold on Roswell so far will be over and another phase in her life will begin.

Actually, I'm re-thinking Tess's role in Liz's HJ, but I want to wait until a couple more eps air before I get started on her.

Interesting theories, I think that we both agree that the next few episodes will be crucial in their HJs. Should be very interesting to watch...

I'll post something on Michael tomorrow when I'm more sober...

I give this thread

sorry if i sound fake or something. i just love hearing people's opinions on more intellectual views on the show.

Even at this point their HJ's are similar - Michael is simply experiencing things with Maria. However, one could also claim that this (the "into the labyrinth" stage) is not about an emotional relationship (ie Maria) but rather a more traditional HJ. In this scenario, ‘Into the Labyrinth' is Michael taking on somewhat of a leadership role as Max pursues his relationship with Liz. It is Michael who tries to send a signal to Naesado, Michael who strikes out on his own to find more information about the podsters et al. Michael's trials and heroic deeds are obvious, his difficulties with his father and striking out on his own, taking on a leadership role, trying to find the granilith et al. Into the belly of the beast in my mind means his ‘relationship' with Courtney, which marks the first great separation between his and Max's HJ. This may mark the start of a continual diversion between their two paths or it may be only momentary.

I must note that while I said in an earlier post you can draw up an HJ for a secondary character (and noted that Han Solo was on an HJ is Star Wars) it is often more difficult to do so. The HJ generally refers to the central character and maybe one or two others. Putting Michael on the stages is slightly more difficult, trying to draw up an HJ for Alex or Kyle etc would likely be impossible. I'm in a rush so predictions will have to wait a few hours, but what I am thinking now is a bit strange. I would like to see an HJ for Tess drawn up from the emotional standpoint that Czech-Please mentioned. I think that would give some insight into her mysterious role as a podster and also some insight into Max and Liz.

Sorry if this post seems a bit rushed I have visitors at my house for a few days...

I am not famaliar with Campbell's Hero Journey, but I can certainly see how this has been present in modern and not so modern fiction. One wonders who has the ultimate HJ story. Would it be Max's because of predeposed destiny or is it Liz because she is significant to the future of Earth but also Twilo.

Thanks so much for posting this. This needs to stay up on top!

I think I'll let maxcedo know about this thread for archieving purposes.

http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/ is maxcedo's home

Czech please, you bring up a good point with the whole idea of the intersecting paths of the romance and sci-fi journeys.

When i learned these stages, i remember reading something about the stage "enchanted forest," (i think) where the hero must decide whether to return to fight the battle. In the enchanted forest, the hero is lulled into false sense of sercurity or something is holding him back from advancing further into into the heart of darkness and finally achieving victory.

In Max's case, it could be Liz, though my dreamer heart prays that it isn't. Or by extension, perhaps it could be all his human ties, parents, friends and loves alike, if the "Heart of Darkness" is to leave Earth and fight the battle on the other planet. If this is the case, all three aliens(or four if Tess ever establishes strong human ties) will have to endure the journey. Particularly Isabel who, despite her attempts to stay as emotionally detached as Michael by setting up her "ice queen-let-me- date-any-jerk-who-won't-delve-into-my -real -feelings person" is very much attached to Diane Evans.

Now whether this is part of the "enchantment" or if it is merely one of the obstacles or trials, who knows.

I sincerely hope that the writers decide to tie all the loose ends together in the end. I hope the series goes on for a long time, but i would like to see the show develop through the stages and see both the romance and sci-fi journeys melded together, if at least rectified by having the all of the aliens AND the humans decide which path they are willing to take. Roswell is certainly on its way to becoming a very complex and beautiful tapestry- but it also has the potenial to fail if the evil corporate suits take over the writing process.

In my opinion, the series is in the midst of the "trials-belly of the enemy-sacrifices" part of the journey as evidenced by all the strife and distrust among our once closely knit pod squad (and when i say that, i mean the 4 humans and 4 aliens). Perhaps the biggest trial is the distrust with the introduction of Tess, who is inevitably the messenger who brings "destiny" into their lives. When that happened, much of the trust began to disintigrate and "the only 5 people i trust are standing in front of me" has turned into "you betrayed/cheated me in a past life/realtionship." Here's hoping we can make it through these trials.

i love joseph campbell, don't you?

Unfortunately I'm at work right now and don't have time to break down the different steps for each of the characters. But for Maria you can look at some key moments - learning about the Pod Squad, Michael "abducting" her, the conversation in the motel in 285 South, helping to save Michael in the balance -- many of her steps are directly related to Michael and the way she reacts to his erradic behavior toward her.

Food for thought! Looking forward to seeing what else this thread produces.

Em

I think there's a Heroes Journey just for season one, and perhaps another for season two, which of course, we can't see yet.

But I'm thinking of an interpretation for the enchanted forest that I hope they would go with, and perhaps some of you can tell me of some mythic precedents - - something about keeping the heart of the hero (or the king): The enchanted forest (as defined in the post above) could be Max's sense of emptiness and betrayal, a pointlessness if there's nothing to believe in and no one you can trust.

A recurring theme which has been pretty consistent from the beginning of the show has been that of trusting inner knowledge. A classic dialogue:
Q: How did you know to do that?
A: I don't know, I just knew.

Max feels betrayed by all around him, esp. the one he instinctively trusted most of all - - who hurt him most deeply and intimately. How is he to trust himself and his instincts ever again? And what will guide him if he can't feel an inner sense of rightness?

(Max to Liz in Harvest: "All I know is what I saw. If that's true, then everything I felt in my heart for a year is a lie.")

I think his Enchanted Forest might be doubt or just bitterness or anger; an unwillingness to go forward with all that's being thrust upon him if he can't see anything to fight for, if his heart is not protected.

If I recall, Sir G goes up against a knight who seems invincible: he cuts his head clean off but the man just retrieves it and puts it back on.

He discovers that the man is invincible because his heart or his soul is protected inside an amulet that he wears around his neck, so that it doesn't matter *how* bad his wounds - - he will always heal and come back strong as long as the amulet keeps his heart.

If I recall, Sir G goes up against a knight who seems invincible: he cuts his head clean off but the man just retrieves it and puts it back on.

He discovers that the man is invincible because his heart or his soul is protected inside an amulet that he wears around his neck, so that it doesn't matter *how* bad his wounds - - he will always heal and come back strong as long as the amulet keeps his heart.
This man sounds like Nickolas to me.
bumping

You will also notice that in Star Wars.. that Destiny is a huge factor.. and that although Darth was right that Luke's destiny was to rid the universe of the emperor (I belive that LUke is the balance of the force and Qui Gon was seeing Luke's future through anakin and not anakin) But that he was wrong about how LUKE Forfilled it.

I have been holding on to this HOPE for MAX that Max has his destiny(karhma).. but that the PATH (darhma) to the destiny is his choice alone. MAX can still forfill his destiny.. but the choice on how to do that is his.. to quote Luke when faced with the choice "I will not turn and you will be forced to kill me"
I always loved Luke.. the perfect Nobel hero.. spritiual jedi..now..(I never thought it possible) I LOVE MAX MORE!!! and I want MAX to show that kind of strength .. I am hoping the writers are up to the task.. I respect JASON emensly and I think he knows his character better than anyone I am hoping that the writers see it too.

Still think we are on one greater HJ rather than a different one for season 1&2 and that just about everyone is at their "atonement" stage. Rather than "belly of the beast" (or whale or whatever) I think MitC will be his Atonement stage as he comes to terms with his failings as a leader both now and in his previous life, but hell I was wrong before so why not now

I agree that one could draw up an HJ for all the characters in Roswell, I said as much before. The problem is, that just like in other famous uses of the HJ, it is far more difficult to do so with the "secondary" characters. While just about everyone would naturally agree with Max and Liz are the central characters, the difficulty that one has trying to place Isabelle, Michael, Maria etc in the HJ only confirms that fact. The other problem with a "secondary" character's HJ is that they often don't have a great deal to do with the "big picutre".

First time using "smilies", if they don't work its not my fault

Great thread, NyLoN! I've really enjoyed reading it.

I don't think that your sacrifice stage prediction was wrong. I think that Max knows that Liz didn't really sleep with Kyle and that he still loves her. I think that he made the "clean break" so that he could try to put the Liz/Kyle puzzle behind him long enough to deal with the important problems at hand. But maybe I'm just too much of a dreamer...

So basically I'm bumping. Which I feel bad about, but when I've had a chance to read the book, hopefully I'll have something intelligent to say.

--rainydayjanes

Max made the refusal to the Call "I am not Zan."
Just as Daniel did in Star Gate
"I can't go."
and Luke did in Star Wars
" I can't go with you.. I have to stay here."

A turn of events made Max decided to answer the call.
Lonnie decieveing him into believing she was Izzy.

So now I think we are coming on the belly of the beast or in the book I read it said (whale)

For Daniel in Star Gate it was the Temple where he was killed and then reborn in the reanimation chamber.

For Luke.. in the Garbage pit.. he disappeared and reappeared.. a sort of rebirth from the mire.

Now Max goes to NY.. I only.. say I think we are upon this cause Max made the refusal to the call.. In Movie format.. He would be coming upon this next. He should be lost reborn and a sacrifice would be made there.

For Luke it was.. Obi Wan (doubled as loss of the mentor and sacrifice)
For Daniel some of his crew.

Ahh sweet Max.. I can't wait to see him be heroic..I just love Max! My favorite hero..I never thought anyone could replace Luke in my heart..but Max has done it. the sweet thing.

I'm inclined to agree with Czech and Penny Fox about the final test/destination for Max and Liz being involved with giving up once and for all the idea that they can live a "normal" life but embracing the idea that, as dangerous as it is, they can face the new life together. We've already seen this is possible with Future Max and Future Liz. They were obviously living a non-normal life, leading the battle to save Earth. Liz doesn't even need to be part-alien or have discovered super-human powers to embrace this destiny. All along, she's been thinking, acting and planning ways to save Max and the other podsters. She can't help herself -- it's her basic heroic nature.

My sister is reading over my shoulder and although she has seen very few "Roswell"s, she has her own ideas of the HJ. For example: she feels that Luke's (Star Wars) 'belly of the beast' was in Cloud City, after his confrontation with Darth Vader, where he also made the 'sacrifice' of his hand. His enlightment was the realization that all he had believed to be true was a falsehood and that he would rather die than join the dark side.

Ssssoooo, now to Liz: "Future Max" was Liz's threshold guardian, preventing her call to adventure (her future life with Max). And by preventing their destiny (together), she has become Max's threshold guardian.

ergo, questions, comments, snide remarks?

First off, this thread is going to be replaced by an old thread. Behrall used to have a thread on all literary comparisons to Roswell. He PM'd me yesterday about it, and I think it's a good idea if only for the reason it might get a little more support and be on the first page more often. Hopefully he will give a recap of all the thoughts on Campbell in the first post there.

Secondly, without revealing anything to anyone who isn't a MonkeyJunkie...props to Czech-Please, Penny-Fox and myself too I suppose. We will have alot to discuss on monday...

So whenever Behrall starts the thread lets all move over there.