Roswell the Television Show Science Fiction Theories--Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology

...to the ROSWELL THE TELEVISION SHOW SEASON 1 THEORIES ARCHIVE

Topic: Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology - Thread #9

By Zero

09-28-2000, 09:58 PM

Welcome to the new Board and the continuing discussion of “Liz’s Importance to the Alien Mythology.” This is Thread #9, and a great time for Season 2 to begin!! :D We have been passing the time all summer dissecting the Roswell episode, one by one, finding “clues” to Liz’s importance and other relevant topics! I don’t know whether the past threads are available, so you are welcome to join the discussion mid-stream if you are new, and don’t worry about repeated discussions!

The following is a summary of some of the thoughts and theories that have been expressed on the original threads. If possible, I highly recommend that if you want to read an excellent in-depth analysis of how Liz might fit into the alien mythology and her importance to the pod squad – and the survival of the human race for that matter - and theories concerning the beings and mysteries swirling around Liz you spend the time to read the original threads – if you can find them!

First – and foremost – the general consensus is that Liz is important to the alien mythology and the pod squad, and that there is more to the Liz/Max connection than a mere attraction (i.e., a crush). From the first look – Max getting off the bus in Kindergarten, Max has been strongly attracted to Liz. Max often makes comments such as “It was you!” that leads us to believe that her importance to him was beyond the bounds of “normal.” How Liz is important is where the fun – and this thread! - comes in. Most believe that when Max healed Liz and then caused a "reverse connection" (Pilot), that something changed in Liz – whether the change was new or an awakening of something already a part of her is not known. Many feel there is something that goes to the core of who Liz is – maybe from a past life on the pod squads planet, or a previous life encounter with Max’s alien “essence” or human DNA donor on Earth, or was Liz the original “4th” podster who “hatched” early and was humanized by her human parents, or was Liz the "second in command" referred to in the Mom'ogram, who somehow was separated from the group, or could it just be Liz's advanced human intelligence that "connects" her to Max – but that the connection that Max had to Liz started the day he first got off the bus and saw her, and was awakened in Liz by the healing and reverse connection that occurred in the Pilot. Some have wondered if the way Max held the back of Liz’s neck during the healing could have changed her cerebral cortex – the location that Pierce said the Special Unit had identified as the source of the aliens’ powers. Could the number of connections also come into play into “changing” Liz, or awaking an already – yet dormant – power within her? Many have wondered about Liz’s origins – are her parents her birth parents, does she have a connection to the Indians, why does she look so much like Sheila Hubble? – and how this plays into the connection with Max. Is Liz totally of human origin or does she have some alien “blood” - literally or figuratively – in her?

"Soulmates" seems to be a continuing term used when referring to Max and Liz, and we all seem to think this is done for a reason. Though much is made of Max’s Destiny being Tess (aka hamster or gerbil – you pick) , many of us wonder if Liz is actually his Destiny due to the use of the Human DNA and where it came from. The use of that DNA could have totally altered the “planned” destiny. There is also much thought given to whether the alien Max played out his “destiny” on his home planet when killed in the conflict that envelopes that place, and that now has an entire new “destiny” that includes Liz – one that could not have been anticipated by his home planet creators. Most of us draw a clear distinction between someone’s “destiny” and “duty.” We – mostly – also believe that by using human DNA for the pod squad, and the fact that they were raised as humans, brings the issue of “free choice” into play. The continuing debate of “nature” vs. “nurture” also comes up here – and is the podsquad’s “nature” completely “alien” given that all their powers are “human.” There has also been an excellent analysis of what “essence” truly means, and can a being’s destiny or soul follow the transfer of one’s essence. Also, does one’s memory follow one’s essence? Are those visions Max’s alien being’s memories, or are they coming from someone or somewhere else? There have also been many wonderful discussions concerning what "destiny" truly means, and how the environment (the "nurture" argument) can affect one's destiny.

In the Mom‘ogram, many have wondered if the reference to Max’s young bride has to be to Tess (The Evil Shape Shifter – Grace Kel )? Could it be Liz? Though many seem to accept that it probably is referring to Tess, many wonder why they would send his bride in the first place? Was Tess sent solely to provide a “mate” for Max (please – no gagging allowed on this thread), or was there another purpose for her presence? There is also the question of whether the Mom’ogram is authentic, or a projection from Tess? It was hard to tell when Tess’ projections left off and reality began. Was it pre-recorded like a video tape (in which case – is the home planet still in existence, or has it been destroyed by war or natural consequences?), or was it a direct communication with the home planet or a hidden spaceship (hidden by the V formation?)? The same concerns are raised with the “book” found by Tess with respect to its authenticity and reliability. Could Grandma Claudia’s book – which is in Liz’s possession (we assume) - help decode the alien’s book and shed light on the aliens’ connection to the Indians in the area? If the alien book is authentic, how did the aliens know exactly what the pod squad would look like when they grew up? (Lots of discussion re: DNA, cloning, etc. - very interesting! )

Liz is also viewed – when the episodes are rewatched (multiple times by some of us! And in slow motion! We fondly call this “Grace Kelled” :D ) – as a critical element to moving the plot along. She is the one who often initiates the actions that help unravel the aliens’ mythology (e.g., thinking of the plan to throw Valenti off the trail in the Pilot, finding the way out of the hidden room at Atherton’s place, making the initial contact with River Dog, going to Valenti to seek help in rescuing Max, etc.). She is a leader that takes action when it is needed, and is the intellect that comes up with the plan. She could possibly be the equivalent to Max – whom we find out in Destiny is the former leader of his people. Could Liz be the human equivalent of Max that is here to help Max save the human race, as well as free the pod squad’s people? Liz is also a brain – which is relevant when we find out in the White Room that the podsters are just very advanced humans (approximately 3000 years ahead of us normal mortals!). Could her intelligence mean that she has the potential to obtain some of the “powers” that the pod squad have? We will have to wait for Season 2, but many have expressed that they would NOT be surprised if Liz is capable of some advanced powers in the future, and that her visions may be just a precursor to these. Will she be the one able to SEE the evil within as the Mom’ogram says the podsters will have to be able to do? Is that what she was "seeing" when she kissed Harding/Max? Does she only get visions while kissing or in a state of heightened emotion (i.e., the hand touching in SH in Chemistry class)? The aliens supposedly get such visions sometimes according to Max in Missing – remember the vision he got of Kyle in Liz’s bedroom.

Each of Liz’s visions has been examined in-depth, and it is hard to summarize all the thoughts here. Not only has she been able to “see into Max’s soul,” but also she has seen a (the?) trip through a distant galaxy, the crash on Earth, and her visions were the reason the second communicator was discovered. Many feel these visions were not coming from Max, but from an outside source – or a source internal to Liz just now being released or awakened. Some of the visions seemed to be from the perspective of the communicator itself or an alien hiding it (a deep breathing – out-of-breath alien). Some wonder if others - aliens? - have observed Liz for some time. The shot came from two “strangers” who mention – “We have to get rid of her” – in the background (listen carefully while Liz shows the alien picture to the tourist couple) right before she is shot. Was it intentional?? Why would anyone (or any being) "watch" Liz prior to the shooting unless she has an importance we are not aware of yet (though we suspect)?

The picture Liz shows the tourists in the Pilot was supposedly taken by her Grandmother at the crash before the military arrived – a connection or just a joke as we were supposed to think?? Many have speculated about Grandma Claudia’s involvement and her book about the Ancient Treasures of the Navajo Indians. Could Grandma Claudia have had contact with the aliens previously? Was Grandma Claudia killed intentionally? Did she know that Liz was “special,” thus, necessitating the early arrival and that “soulmate” discussion? Is Liz affected or a product of one of these earlier alien contacts? Could Liz have an alien relative? There seems to be many hints connecting ancient Indian cultures to the podsquad or other aliens, including the Machu Picchu in Peru culture highlighted at the UFO Museum, the continuing references to “ancient languages” (e.g., Liz’s Blind Date Doug Shellow’s major at the UofNM and where the aliens’ manual was hidden in the library) and Grandma Claudia’s studies. Only coincidence – we think not! Could Liz’s review of her Grandmother’s possessions in Season 2 reveal those connections? We are hopeful!

Another major topic of interest is Liz’s connection to Sheila Hubble! The resemblance between the two is amazing, and other parallels exist (e.g., pictures of both driving in an open-air car with the wind blowing through their dark hair). Plus, the visions that Liz receives from Max/Harding include Hubble’s wife at the death scene – meaning it had some significance to him. Did he kill her, or did the handprint come from a failed attempt to save her? Were the fireworks Hubble mentions seeing when kissing his wife the same as the stars Liz sees when kissing Max? Could Sheila Hubble be related to Liz somehow – an aunt, DNA donor, or was Sheila an alien? The fact that Sheila Hubble was three months pregnant with a girl seems to be relevant somehow! Could the DNA from the girl have been used for the podsquad – Max maybe, or Tess – or for Liz? AND why is Tess' mother's name listed as Sheila on her school records? Everett Hubble, Ed Harding - both EH names with a wife named Sheila - INTERESTING! hummmm! :eyespin:

Liz’s ability to “see” into Max/Harding’s “soul” again points to the possibility that she may ultimately be able to “see the evil within.” What is it that she sees in these visions? Sheila Hubble, Lightening, a wormhole, the high desert, clouds rolling in? Some see sea foam, which is related in mythology to Venus. Is Liz the Venus often referred to? The Venus constellation is often referred to in connection with Liz (e.g., Max in response to Liz saying her parents are on a trip to see Venus in the morning sky says “I thought she was standing in front of me.”). Could it be that the four squares (pod squad) + plus the fifth star being Liz “complete” the constellation? The numbers 14 and 104 seem to pop up often – why? Some have found a connection between these numbers to Venus in astronomy and mythology, or could it be 1 for Liz, and 4 for the podsquad? Or are they just some writer’s favorite apartment number or address? :facespin: We also have the evil aliens’ beeper that is a pentagon – 5 sided. Any connection?

And what significance does the cave map have to Liz's connection to the podsters? A number of the symbols in the cave “map” have raised some interesting analysis! What do they represent, and is Liz represented somehow - like one of the "dot" in the series of boxes, one of which is open with the dot outside? Some have tried to identify each of the symbols and draw a correlation between the symbols and the various characters with some fascinating results! We have also begun to analyze the symbols that are “flashed” in the promos – you definitely have to Grace Kel them or you will miss them. Redhawk has done some wonderful screen caps for us to analyze!

Many have wondered if the "bad" aliens might also be from the podsquad's planet, just part of a civil war - therefore, having similar characteristics and powers to Harding's type of alien. Many of us think that the podsquad’s people had to have visited Earth before - maybe many times! Could the pods have been planted on Earth at a time separate from the 1947 crash, maybe later on? Could other pods have been planted at other times? Could there be more than one set of podsters that will show up later? Clones? And could some of these earlier visits have some connection to Grandma C or someone else in Liz’s family? Was the ’47 crash caused by the bad aliens, or another ship of the “good” aliens? How long have the bad and good aliens been visiting or aware of Earth? And what have they been up to on these visits?

Most of us also think that there are more than one alien “watching” the pod squad, and that the tic-tac popping alien (AKA Tic Tac) (i.e., Hank-killer, one that found them asleep in the desert, and Dr. M impersonator) is a different alien, possibly watching out for them (we hope!), than Harding/Nasedo (assuming Harding is Nasedo). And what about the person who burns their picture at the end of Blind Date - another alien or one of the above two? Some wonder if Tess, Doug Shellow, Pierce and/or Deputy Owen might be a shapeshifter, or evil aliens? There is a wonderful observation of the different ways Harding and Tic Tac shapeshift and the different colored light involved! Many feel that Tic Tac is a good alien watching over the podsters, but maybe he is watching over Liz, too! Some wonder if Tic Tac switched the orb in the desert before Liz and Max woke up? If he did, why? The orbs have become a significant focus of discussion – how are they connected to the alignment of the constellations, or to the podsquad, or to the evil aliens? Also – what was with the “visit” during Into The Woods? Was it a spaceship that left the marking, or a single alien? As far as the color analysis goes, generally yellow seems to represent – or be present – evil, and blue seems to represent good – though this is not always true. And then, there is always the green cells and occasional glow!

Harding’s connection to Liz has been pondered often! Why was he so eager to kiss Liz – not just in the car, but also in bus after “saving” her? (Horny alien? ) Why did he save Liz and not Max from the house of mirrors? Could he have been Sheila Hubble’s lover or had some other strong connection to her, with a later connection to Liz? Could he have known Grandma Claudia? Could GC been connected to Sheila Hubble somehow? Harding has done nothing – we know of – to harm Liz, but MANY are suspicious of his intentions. Is his sole reason for being on Earth to protect the podsquad – an official “worker bee” – and what did he do for all those years?? Some feel he is a bad alien using Tess to infiltrate the podsquad. Why didn’t he give them more information about themselves and what he has been up to? There are so many questions he could answer for the podsters! Will the real Ed Harding please stand up?

Some have noted the reoccurrence of handholding as symbolizing the connection between Max and Liz and the other podsters. Handholding has great significance in the books as a form of joining energy, and we believe it does in the show too. The V constellation also looks like the joining of two hands. Also, in The Balance much is made of Max reaching out his hand to pull Michael from the pit, and M/I/M walking away holding hands.

Finally – dates seem to be of interest to those on this thread. So, following is a rundown of dates as I’ve been able to gather them. I include them up-front for easy reference, but I would love to add dates of relevance you come across:
1911 - James Atherton born in TN
1927 - Buffalo Visitation
1/15/1943 – Pentagon (think beeper shape) completed
6/14/1947 - Crash
6/24/1947 - 9 Disk-like objects spotted flying near Mt. Rainier in WA
7/4/1947 – Milton claims the crash occurred
7/7/1947 - Farmer Brazel (from Foster Ranch) finally reports debris from Roswell crash to sheriff, who calls Roswell Army Air Field
11/14/1947 - Everet Hubble born
1950? - Observation of alien held in captivity by FBI ends (Escaped? Died?)
1952 - Atherton involved in Project Blue Book (Air Force project on aliens)
1959 - Atherton dies (murdered?)
1959 - Milton (Max's Boss) has picture with "alien" shadow next to him outside the Ice Cream Parlor
1962 - Agent Lewis - first head of Special Unit killed in CO
1967 - Agent Delbianco killed in TN
1970 - Sheila Hubble dies (murdered?)
1972 – Silo Murder occurs involving Hubble and Sheriff Valenti Senior
3/15/1983 – Max’s birthday (Blood Bothers)
1989 - Pod Squad come out of the cave (look like 6-year-olds)
1992 - Max and Isabel "find" Michael again
1992? - Liz and Max "meet" in the 3rd grade for the first time (but may have been in the same school before this, just didn't meet.)
1999 - Agent Daniel Summers killed
9/17/1999 - Max saves Liz - and Roswell is Born!! :D

I know I have NOT covered everything, but that would be impossible and I’d never do anyone justice! There is lots of speculation about Pierce and other characters revolving around Liz, and why they are important to the discussion. Some have wondered why Max and Agent Stevens had the same address – just an inside joke or more? Tangents are welcome on this Thread as long as they ultimately lead back to Liz! :liz: I'm trying to sum up the core issues here - Liz's importance and connection to the podsquad – Max :max: in particular! I hope others will help fill in some of the gaps, but this is my attempt to continue the wonderful input, and make this thread accessible. Lots to think about!! So – theorize away!!! All theories on "Liz’s Importance to the Alien Mythology" are welcome. OH, BTW (I always have to add this – if anyone from THE WB reads this – WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LIZ/MAX :liz: / :max: CONNECTION IS CRITICAL TO THE SHOW, and that together Max and Liz make a incredible force to reckon with!!

A couple of general “rules” – No Spoilers, but anything “aired” is subject to discussion. Pictures are welcome, as is deleted dialog from posted scripts of shows that have been aired.

Zero :D

By jen2themax	09-28-2000, 10:08 PM
Thanks, Zero! You always do a super job getting us started!

By shapeshifter

09-28-2000, 10:33 PM

Hi Zero and everyone! I posted the following on LSS's new thread, but this board is running so flawlessly that her thread is already buried on page 2:

IMNSHO, the connection that Max and Liz make is the ultimate desire of human beings. In fact, the goal of many religions is to make this connection with God (because it cannot be made with imperfect humans?) Young people who have not found this connection can generally still hope for it. Over-the-hillers can at least vicariously experience it during a weekly hour of TV viewing.
Yes, in a real life teen romance Max and Liz would probably drift further and further apart. But we have been led to believe that the level of the connection is such that Max and Liz cannot be apart for long--recall Liz's own theory of the weird hicky lesions from SH:
LIZ: You know, the...the mark went away because...because you touched it. Maybe...maybe it came because we were away for...too long. That sounds really crazy, but...it would be a complete disaster.

By AussieCat

09-29-2000, 02:01 AM

Hi all

Thanks Zero for starting this thread so well as usual.

Just delurking to bump one of the best threads on the boards up.

I have some thoughts that I will post later when I have them in a coherent way.

Cate

By buckley point

09-29-2000, 03:43 AM

Hi! First time on. I'm a little brain dead from reading all 8 pages from your last thread, but I just had to say that this last thread was quite an eye opener.

I have had this feeling that they have realy missed out on experimenting with the possibilities of what a soulmate's tie could be like if it was with an alien. If our normal humans, with normal limitations could tell things about twins and family from a distance, what kind of connection could there be between Max and Liz, if they were allowed the chance to strengthen the link?

It just happens to be a question that keeps knocking around in my brain. It has probably been broached many times before. I appologize if it is an old idea.

By Qfanny

09-29-2000, 04:56 AM

Hey Zero!

Thanks for the new thread and thank you FF for the new boards... Just don't prune off everything yet, PLEASE.

I posted this on the old board Destiny thread, and would like to see some more discussion: I think that there are four different alien factions: You must assume the following:

1) Max/Tess pairing is a political union between good and evil aliens. A visual sign of a peace treaty.
2) Aliens on both side either reject or support the peace treaty.

3) The shapeshifting race's political structure is akin to our old feudal systems.

Factions:

[u]Evil Alien[/u]
Pro-Destiny: Support M/T: Tess's group
Anti-Destiny: Support M/L: Pierce's group

[u]shapeshifting Podians[/u]
Pro-Destiny: Support M/T: Harding's group
Anti-Destiny: Support Mi/I: TicTac's group

I find it interesting that Pierce would be the alien that supports the human/alien couples!!!!

Also, the reason why I put destiny on Mi/I is because if I was someone very against the union of Max/Tess as a peace treaty, I would not want them to have children. That child would not be 100% my race. But I wouldn't mind Mi/I having a kid because that kid would be 100% podian!

I'll be off-line until late Sunday, so I want be able to answer questions for a while.

Remember is not an

By StephStephSteph

09-29-2000, 07:23 AM

Hi All

Just thought I'd mention how weird something was. Someone mentioned a while back how in the Promo you could hear "you have to get rid of her" before Liz got shot. Well, I, of course, ran home and watched the Promo that night and heard it and was all "ooOOoOo". Well, then, my friend comes over last weekend to watch some more eppy's and I go to play it for her and it wasn't there! Maybe I was deaf at the time, but I SWEAR we didn't hear it.. so bizare!!

So.. anyway.. continue the interesting thoughts.. they FASCINATE me!

By JBehrAddict	09-29-2000, 09:15 AM
I just wanted to say that you guys pick up some of the most amazing things! I never would have put two-and-two together the way you guys do! Zero, great summary! I got goosebumps thinking about all the things that could happen and I'm particularly interested in a Liz/alien storyline! It would add a great twist to the show

By clarinetkate

09-29-2000, 09:50 AM

Hi...

Ok, so I am not a Liz mythologist at all, but I was urged to come in and share my surprisingly Liz-centric theory with everyone... If anything has been said before, bear with me, I've never been to one of these threads before...

Ok, So the thing that got me thinking was that the whole Mom-o-gram doesn't make practical sense, because why would the pod squad be of any help fifty years later. Which brought us to the theory of time travel. So, this is the bizarre theory I had in relation to Liz and the Liz theories in light of the idea of time travel...

you know how everyone (ok, so not everyone, more like, um Liz lovers) always
said that the guys who shot Liz didn't just like accidently shoot her, they
said, We have to get rid of her, and then shot her? It had been proposed
that they were aliens out to kill her so that Max would be with Tess. But
that never made sense to me cause unless they could see into Max's mind, how
would they know he was "in love with" Liz. But, what if these guys were from
the future and they knew that Max would fall in love with Liz and marry her
and not follow his destiny and what not, so they attempted to prevent this
from happening by journeying back in time to kill her. So this whole time we
are watching a new version of history, a completely altered one. Perhaps in
the real history Max and Liz fell in love like a normal way and what not and
their connection is so deep because they have that sort of past life thing
going on to, only it's more like a precognition of a life that was to be but
has been irrevocably erased. Thus, he HAS formed a connection with Liz based
on this once existing life that through his alieness he is somehow taping in
to? and thus can never form a connection with Tess even though she is from a
past life, because liz is from another CURRENT life.

If that is the case, I wonder what role Tess played in Max's real unaltered
present day life...did she and Harding never track Max down because he never
became the suspect of an FBI investigation (which further points to the fact
that this shooting was engineered by the aliens, because having already
witnessed Max's life they know he loves liz and will thus save her which they
realize will inevitably put him in the spotlight of the fbi, thus attracting
Harding's attention.).

Anyway, that was my theory, and I just wanted to share it with you guys before I go run over to the UC board. Hi Melody ; )

--KATE

By Zero

09-29-2000, 10:29 AM

Kate - Welcome and wonderful theory involving time-travel! Time-travel has been discussed but not in great detail. So, you raise some interesting ideas involving the Liz/Max connection - and the most interesting thing is that throughout your theory Max and Liz remain "soulmates." I believe wherever the writers go with the storylines that Max and Liz being "soulmates" - even if it is cross-the-universe soulmates (which is cool in and of itself) - is a core foundation to the show. Without this foundation, the show becoming just another relations/sci-fi show.

Buckley Point - Welcome - and I think this plays into your quandry about what migh happen if Liz and Max's relationship is allowed to flourish!

Qfanny - interesting about the different factions! I have to ponder this, but I do agree that there is potential - given the writing so far - for the existence of numerous alien factions both from the podsquad's planet and from other planets. The question will be "how many" different types of aliens there will be? And could Grandma C and the Indians, like River Dog and Eddie, be connected somehow to some of these aliens?

Glad everyone is migrating over to the new Board and Thread!

Only 3 days!!

Zero :D

By redhawk

09-29-2000, 11:20 AM

Thank you Zero for the wonderful synopsis of all of our theories.

Just a few things from Part 8:
HeHe... Reggie... Steve Doocey as TicTac. Now THAT would be funny.

Okay, now I need to look at my old Destiny tape too. I didn't tape the most recent airing. But I remember thinking, also, that the river looked different then I remembered. ugh. Overactive imagination of mine is what I thought. Glad to see I'm not the only one.
jen2themax "more clues for us???"

Thanks GraceKel... any suggestions on pics you'd like to see on the new thread? I imagine the old board will disappear soon.

I find the time-travel theory very interesting. Or how about if the guys from the future who shot Liz thought that by shooting her, she would die and not be able to follow her real destiny with Max by her side as a leader of the human race. Although this assumes they thought Max wouldn't save her. Hmm... have to give this more thought.

Can't wait for the new season!!!
It sure is hard to remain spoiler free. So many tempting tidbits out there.

Animation made from pics taken from Vidiot's promo.

The producers sure do like that blue color.

By shapeshifter

09-29-2000, 12:28 PM

quote:Originally posted by redhawk:

Redhawk et al,
The animation you posted is remarkably similar to the scene from Pilot (used in the Season 1 openings) in which Max leaves the crashdown after healing Liz.

By shaiwon72

09-29-2000, 12:38 PM

interesting point of view about time travel. but if they were aliens why wouldn't they have just attempted to kill liz when she was a lot younger. not that i approve of this but... if ultimately the goal was to kill liz, they could have abducted her when she was little and do away (that's a horrible thing to say). i mean, if you look at past movies like terminator 1.. they were sent into the past to wipe out the unborn child, john connor, to be the leader. i just wonder if there were such attempts for this. prior to the crashdown shooting. why would it be that day when liz is a teen and working at the crashdown w/ max in the cafe to save her?

if that was the plan to kill liz, they did a very poor job of calculating the shooting.

~~em

By Melodious1

09-29-2000, 01:12 PM

quote:Originally posted by clarinetkate:
Anyway, that was my theory, and I just wanted to share it with you guys before I go run over to the UC board. Hi Melody ; )

Hola Kate! Thanks so much for being brave and coming into the Liz Mythologist thread, I know how it must have pained you. You crazed UCer you!

Ok, I don't know if this has been speculated on before, but since rewatching ITW; something caught my attention...

quote:during Valenti's interrogation, Into The Woods
ROCKY: Everyone does. Look, Sheriff, there's been dry lightning all over these woods for days.

I thought this was rather intriguing, considering one of the visions Liz sees when kissing Maxcedo is of lightening (dry lightening?). I'd assume 'dry lightening' is a somewhat regular occurence in deserts (I wouldn't have a clue, I grew up in rural Nebraska, no deserts). However, here goes my imagination, Could this 'dry lightening' Mr. Calhoun mentions possibly be some 'environmental side effect' before any/all Ros UFO phenomenon? A sign before 'the sign' (in ITW terms), so to speak? I'm also fascinated by the 'lightening' / 'dry lightening' which seems to surround Ros, because even in the opening credits, there's a flash of desert lightening. Is there some important significance between lightening and UFOs (in the Ros world or otherwise)? And why did Liz see it? Of ALL the things in Harding's head she could have seen?

Has this been pondered before? If so, I'd love to hear some theories. I seriously think there could be some significance here.

Melodious

By Zero

09-29-2000, 02:04 PM

Melodious - I don't think the dry lightning has been discussed other than identified as one of the visions. That is a good point about Mr. C mentioning it, and it possibly being a clue to alien visitations - pre- or post-visit.

Welcome to all - it's a pleasure to help keep this thread going! There are so many wonderful and thoughtful people who post here!

Redhawk - I love your pictures, so any are welcome! I especially like the ones that tie Liz to Max - you are very good at creating these!

I look forward to any that you post!

Zero :D

By Evid

09-29-2000, 02:28 PM

quote:Originally posted by shaiwon72:
interesting point of view about time travel. but if they were aliens why wouldn't they have just attempted to kill liz when she was a lot younger. not that i approve of this but... if ultimately the goal was to kill liz, they could have abducted her when she was little and do away (that's a horrible thing to say). i mean, if you look at past movies like terminator 1.. they were sent into the past to wipe out the unborn child, john connor, to be the leader. i just wonder if there were such attempts for this. prior to the crashdown shooting. why would it be that day when liz is a teen and working at the crashdown w/ max in the cafe to save her?

if that was the plan to kill liz, they did a very poor job of calculating the shooting.

~~em

shaiwon72: I don't think Liz was much of a threat until she came of age, or was it because they new Max could no longer keep his need for her under control(SH). We still are not sure why and how Liz is changing? But she is changing no doubt about that. Maybe the evil aliens couldn't track her down until she showed some signs that she truly was "THE ONE."

By Dareka

09-29-2000, 03:07 PM

Hi guys, remember me?

I'm really sorry I couldn't be in Thread #8. School started and I don't have any time to be on the computer anymore! Ugh, stupid prep school......

Maybe when Liz was little she was too small to cause a threat, but once she reached the age of sixteen, the evil aliens decided she needed to be terminated. By why wait until sixteen when she would be an easier kill at a younger age? Maybe they didn't know who she was until they saw that she had a striking resemblance to Sheila Hubble and figured things out from there. Or maybe Hubble himself saw the resemblance first and the evil aliens found out by monitering him the connection. I just don't see time travel a part of the show. Like shaiwon72 said, it's all too similar to the Terminator movies. Even Nasedo, whos job is to 'keep them alive' is also a parallel to the Terminator movies.

I have one question: How did the book Tess found in the library get there? And how did she know it was there? Gerbil girl (my favorite name for Tess....hehe) might have planted it there in order to get Max to become suspicious of her and get him to notice her, but I think there could be also another reason. That whole episode was basically Gerbil girl (or someone who shape-shifted to look like her) getting the attention of the Pod Squad by acting weird and suspicious. Her using her powers in Tess, Lies, and Videotape at the end was probably also done to get attention to herself, but could there be other reasons behind this? It all seems very odd and out of character for her.

By starE

09-29-2000, 05:00 PM

OK - let me first start by saying that I humbly bow in your presence. I cannot believe the things that you guys come up with. This is by far my favorite thread to lurk in. My husband and I have watched Roswell from day one (never even missed a rerun) and watch the tapes often.

I have some questions that I don't think I have ever seen answered here and would like to know your opinion.

Did you notice in TLV that when Max and Tess were kissing by the car the thing that seemed to stop Max was having a vision of the V constellation? This would further the theory that Liz is Venus.

Secondly, in TLV when Liz was at the dinner table with Ed and Tess it seemed that she slightly turned when Max showed up outside almost like she could sense his presence. I have looked at the tape several times and I am trying to decide if she is thinking about the broken statue/camera or if it is that she can feel Max. Since I am a big believer in the "soulmates" theory I prefer the latter.

I am still confused (even though you have addressed it before) why Nasedo saved Liz from that house of mirrors. I would love any new or old thoughts on that one!!

Can you believe that I actually got over my fear and posted? YEAH!!! :D

By alien_lover

09-29-2000, 05:22 PM

Okay I have checked out this site a few times and I really enjoy your guys ideas and have tried to think of my own but I never really get that far... until I watched destiny the other night.

Now this isnt totally showing that Liz is important to the alien mythology but I think it kinda shows that Tess really isnt but Im not sure its just something I thought of.

If you listen to the mom-o-grams message and you hear how she explains everyone relationship to one another you notice that Tess doesnt really have a strong connection to them. See it says that Max and Isabel are brother and sister so they have a connection. Now Michael and Isabel are betroven which I guess is kinda like Tess and Max being engaged or whatever so this sort of helps them to have a connection. But then they mention that Michael is Max's second in command so that would mean that Max has trust in Michael and Michael has trust in Max making them have a connection.
But when it comes to Tess all she has is an arranged marriage to Max, nothing to do with Michael or Isabel and hardly anything to do with Max.

Now maybe this foreshadowed the idea that Michael, Max, and Isabel were supposed to end up with each other meaning they were suppose to leave Tess behind. Making it so Max could possibly meet someone else aka Liz. but I dont know it was just an idea.

Also if you watch when the pod squad is trying to activate the stones they flash at Tess who makes the same motion with her eyes that she did when she had the agents see Pierce earlier in the episode, I know thats been discussed before but I dont know if anyone noticed the flinch she made.

Well if these ideas were brought up before Im sorry for wasting your time it was just something I noticed.

_er
and
The romance that defies destiny

By clarinetkate

09-29-2000, 05:56 PM

if that was the plan to kill liz, they did a very poor job of calculating the shooting.

~~em

OMG, I'm back again, I might turn out to be a Liz loving dreamer, LOL... OK ANYWAY, I actually DID have something to say...

My theory has sort of two components to it (being that it's a theory, there are two possibilities or something...). One says that they wanted to eliminate Liz to avoid Max's connection with her. But the other posits that perhaps in the real unaltered present, Tess never meets up with Max because he never does anything to draw attention to himself, therefore Nasedo can't track him down. If this is true, then the purpose of the shooting wouldn't necessarily be to kill Liz, but to put her in!a compromising situation where Max would be forced to save her, thus setting the wheels in motion for his introduction to Tess.

Thus, it wouldn't make sense to eliminate Liz as a child. They would have to wait for a time when hormones (Max's) are high and whatnot so that he actually would save her. Third grade Max may not have been so ready and willing to save her, also he might not have known how to use his powers. They had to be sure he would actually publicly use his powers, hence they waited for Liz to mature into a beautiful young woman that Max couldn't help but be drawn to (did I just say that??).

Of course, if the whole point was to simply kill Liz, that wouldn't work, but if you factor in Tess, the non-killing makes more sense, they just didn't account for the extra connection (on top of the other connection they already share from the real unaltered present) the healing would have, making Liz's and Max's souls and lives irrevocably intertwined. (Oh my god, I need to leave now!)

--KATE, who is starting to scare herself...

By Voyant

09-29-2000, 06:00 PM

Hi all!

Just wanted to pop in and see what was going on. I asked this question on the old thread but I don't think it was ever answered, I know it doesn't have to do with Liz but it was bugging me. In Crazy, when Topolsky and Valenti are talking she says something to the effect of...
"I was the first agent to ever make direct contact with the subject. I was breifed by the agent in charge, Peirce and after the things he did to me I'd hate to see what he'd do to the enemy."
I know it's not exact, but it was something like that. So what did I miss? What's the subject? I knew he had been held by the government but I always assumed it was much ealier on in life. Certainly before Topolsky was ever introduced to the "subject".
I apologize if this has already been discussed, but if someone could clear that up it would be great. Thanks for letting me ramble! See you all later.

Voyant

By Melodious1

09-29-2000, 06:14 PM

quote:Originally posted by shaiwon72:
interesting point of view about time travel. but if they were aliens why wouldn't they have just attempted to kill liz when she was a lot younger

That's a good point EM. In defense of Kate's theory... It's been speculated that there could possibly be *other* aliens surrounding/watching Liz; possibly protecting her (although most speculations are of the contrary). Hypothetically speaking, let's say these possible *other* aliens were protecting Liz. They'd have kept a particularly close eye on her when she was younger (at a time she's mostly defenseless). With the tight security around a young Liz, these "time travelling evil aliens" wouldn't have been able to make a move. However, when Max became a more 'frequent' staple in her life (Max's constant staring at Liz, hence, also unknowingly protecting her in a way); the security loosened a bit? These "baddies" took advantage and tried to do away with Liz that day in the CD. Max (bound by Liz, thru Kate's theory of a parallel, alternate life AND maybe a past life as well) HAD TO heal Liz because he was already irreversibly connected to her, fate wouldn't have allowed him to continue w/out her (yes, I'm a dreamer, sue me!).

The protectors could have even known this, hence had no worries letting the "time travelling baddies" do whatever they felt they needed to do, the protectors knew Max wouldn't let Liz die (despite endangering his own identity and that of his fellow podsters). These Liz protectors remain completely covert. Still making small steps to protect Liz, but not make themselves known (in fear of endangering themselves and possibly Liz's true identity/importance?).

Melodious

By ActionJackson

09-29-2000, 06:16 PM

I'm kinda new to the Roswell boards, but not FF, so this is my first time posting over here.
I think that Liz changed Max's Destiny, not to bring up an entirly different show, but on Buffy The Vampire Slayer. Buffy altered Angel's "destiny". So, maybe Max doesn't have to be with the hamster.

By Melodious1

09-29-2000, 07:02 PM

quote:Originally posted by clarinetkate:
OMG, I'm back again, I might turn out to be a Liz loving dreamer, LOL

I don't know about a Dreamer, Kate, but I do feel there is a Liz Mythologist in you itching to take over!

quote:...in the real unaltered present, Tess never meets up with Max because he never does anything to draw attention to himself, therefore Nasedo can't track him down. If this is true, then the purpose of the shooting wouldn't necessarily be to kill Liz, but to put her in a compromising situation where Max would be forced to save her, thus setting the wheels in motion for his introduction to Tess.

This kind of opens another can of worms for me Kate. Inc. your idea above, what if the plan to "put Max in a compromising situation" was not only a means for his introduction to Tess, but was also timed at the moment Tess would be *ready* to meet her husband?

I'm inclined to believe that Tess was separated from M/Mi/I purposefully; to be raised a very specific way (something Harding never reveals to Tess). This kind of jumps on the speculation train, but I've often pondered the situation in the past lives, particularly Tess' part in them. What if it's because of something Tess did (or didn't do) the former lives ended as they did? Granted, I'm probably a tad biased with that opinion considering my general disdain for Tess. Bear with me.

In order to keep whatever this was from reoccuring, the Podians made *extra* sure in this lifetime that the *leader's chosen mate* (Tess) would (almost w/out a doubt) be able to fulfill the role they believe she needs to fulfill. Hence, these *time travellers* waited for the moment Tess would be ready and then put their plan into action - allowing Max to be found by Harding.

Unfortunately, because fate works in mysterious ways; Max - the beloved leader - has found another mate. (Possibly) Even more suitable than Tess, to replace his young bride. Max sees something in Liz (the very first moment he laid eyes on her) that will succeed where the former Tess possibly failed? Liz definitely seems to be more suited to the role of a "beloved leader's" complement then Tess, basing this on many of Liz's actions from Season 1. In almost every circumstance even after Tess arrives, Liz has shown her capabilities in leadership positions (w/out special *training* or being obligated to do so in some way, as opposed to Tess). She takes control of often frightening situations. It's true Tess accompanied Mi/I to rescue Max in WR, but if Harding hadn't shown up when he did, I'm fairly certain they would have all been captured (and it was Valenti - who LIZ alerted - who was crucial in the escape).

If Liz is the one fate has decided to replace Max's alien young bride, then I believe fate has made a good choice!

quote:Of course, if the whole point was to simply kill Liz, that wouldn't work, but if you factor in Tess, the non-killing makes more sense, they just didn't account for the extra connection (on top of the other connection they already share from the real unaltered present) the healing would have, making Liz's and Max's souls and lives irrevocably intertwined. (Oh my god, I need to leave now!)

LOL!! Thanks so much for posting again Kate. Excellent theories for someone who claims NOT to be a Liz mythologist at all!

Indeed, the inclusion of Tess puts more feasibility to your already intriguing theory. Tess is the one the Podians' possibly chose for Max (or former Max could have chosen her - with this theory, it really makes no difference). But if Max is bound to Liz, not only because of your "alternate life" theory Kate, but ALSO because there's *something* about Liz which makes her more suitable for Max and his destiny than ANY OTHER (something which Max might see on some subconscious level)... then poor Tess doesn't really stand a chance, does she?

D*mn this is long! I'll stop ranting now!!

Melodious

By jen2themax

09-29-2000, 07:19 PM

quote:Originally posted by Voyant:
Hi all!

Voyant

Voyant- I believe that the 'subject' is Max. As in,'The subject of an FBI manhunt'

By EL

09-29-2000, 07:52 PM

Just to mention something related on the point of some of the alien messages implying that Tess and Max belong together because of their past life relationship. A few months ago I caught an article in the NY Times Magazine about a new cloning company, yes, a cloning company. They plan to clone animals for a fee; for example, if your pet has recently died, they claim if you save the animal's cells and freeze them, turning the sample over within 48 hours, the animal can be cloned. Apparently the company has been innundated with requests, many from people whose pets are just getting old, and want a new "copy". The company provides a disclaimer:they cannot clone the animal's personality, only their genetic material. Even if they successfully reproduce the animal physically, there's no guarantee that the pet's mind or personality will be identical to the original.

Which brings me up to this bit of information's relation to Roswell - so what if Tess was his intended mate in a former life? Max isn't even a true clone of his former self; his genetic material has been mixed with that of a human, also take into consideration that he's been raised in a radically different environment than the "original" Max. Notice the cloning company's disclaimer - you can't clone a soul. Someone posted that in the Roswell High books (upon which Roswell is based), Liz remembers a conversation with Max in which they debate this very point, can a soul be cloned - a conversation which marked him as someone interesting in her mind, this being before they fell in love.

My whole point is, that even if Max and Tess were together before they were cloned, you can't reproduce someone's soul, personality (especially given the present Max's been raised on Earth) - and when that changes, the person they're attracted to or fall in love with is going to metamorphose as well. I hope they hurry up and display this point so we can see a reunited Max and Liz; I don't really have a problem with Emilie de Ravin or Tess but she just doesn't have that chemistry with Jason Behr that Shiri Appleby does.

By Palomino

09-29-2000, 08:45 PM

FINALLY got on here!

EL : I like what you said about the cloning. Since Max is only a partial clone of a dead being, and has his own soul, I think this would nullify any marriage vows taken by the first "Max".

If anybody has posted this Liz theory before, sorry, I mean no plagerism; I just haven't read it anywhere before.

(You really have to follow the "what ifs" on this one.) Everybody says Liz looks like Sheila, but the only thing I see in common with each is the hair and eye color, which are very common in the general population. I think Liz actually looks closer to Maria's mother(Amy), and come to think of it, Maria looks more like the Parkers than Liz does. Here's the idea: Tic-tac, or other SSer, marries Amy and has a child, which he switches at birth with the Parker baby. Why? Because he wanted to protect her from FBI/evil aliens, that may find out who he is, and therefore who she is. What if he left to protect her? What if something got screwed up with the embryos during the crash, and he needed Amy to carry or raise a child for him? What if the child is 100% human, but carrying an alien essence(or is programmed to be identical to the essence) to replace a child that did not survive, or had to protected for another reason? What if T-t knew Harding was going to steal the bride and brain wash her or use her? What if Tess is even the Parkers' child, switched at birth? A human child "podded" might get the correct hardwiring to have powers(Tess), and would make an excellent decoy. Liz may be totally human, but is reprogrammed to have the "energy signature" that Max will respond to as if she is genetically his mate. Some of the evil aliens may have found out about the safety messure and launched a counter-messure by trying to kill her at the diner, to prevent the future leader from having the mate he needs. Is this totally wacked?

By Zero

09-29-2000, 09:12 PM

There are some excellent theories rolling around this Thread! The time-travel ideas and off-shoots are very interesting - especially how they tie in Tess! I don't know that I buy into time-travel for Roswell, but it's a great theory!

Palomino - I live in a world of "what ifs" - story of my son's life - so I totally love your idea!

El - the cloning issue has always been a hot topic of debate - goes to that whole nurture vs. nature debate. I tend to fall on the side you do - that the environment Max grew up in has had the biggest influence on his distiny, and the fact that Human DNA was used completely changes the equation - in ways the home planet may have never anticipated!

Keep up the great posts!!!

Zero :D

So - where is Grace Kel to add her two cents?

By Voyant

09-29-2000, 09:40 PM

Jen2themax: Thanks for answering my question! I guess I became confused because of the way she delivered the lines. I got this picture in my head of a scientist entering the cage to get a closer look at the "subject". So thanks for clearing that up for me.

Well I'm going to head off and make some tea, I'm losing my voice. So I'll see you all later.

Voyant

By Panola

09-29-2000, 10:19 PM

I found it interesting that Nasedo has absolutely no reaction when Liz says "You're not Max" I would ask "how do you know?" However, Nasedo has no reaction. Also the podsters assume the book that Tess retrives from the Library states certain things. They can't even read it. The book could tell them to watch out for Tess. They have no translation. Michael is already stating that the pictures mean that they're engineered. How could he know for sure? The podsters make assumptions on a unknown factor. I don't trust Tess with an accurate translation (she doesn't seem to know either). I think that GC may be the clue for the translation. In the hospital GC appeared to Max and Liz and I think that this appearance has significance especially since Max thought he didn't succeed in whatever he tried. GC appears after Max says, "I'm sorry." Did Liz subconsciously initiate the connection? She appears to have powers beyond changed brain waves.
Less than 72 hrs. Panola

By starE

09-29-2000, 10:36 PM

quote:Originally posted by Panola:
I found it interesting that Nasedo has absolutely no reaction when Liz says "You're not Max" I would ask "how do you know?" However, Nasedo has no reaction. Also the podsters assume the book that Tess retrives from the Library states certain things. They can't even read it. The book could tell them to watch out for Tess. They have no translation. Michael is already stating that the pictures mean that they're engineered. How could he know for sure? The podsters make assumptions on a unknown factor. I don't trust Tess with an accurate translation (she doesn't seem to know either). I think that GC may be the clue for the translation. In the hospital GC appeared to Max and Liz and I think that this appearance has significance especially since Max thought he didn't succeed in whatever he tried. GC appears after Max says, "I'm sorry." Did Liz subconsciously initiate the connection? She appears to have powers beyond changed brain waves.
Less than 72 hrs. Panola

Panola - 72 hours!! I don't know if I've ever been this excited for anything!! (how sick is that)
I absolutely love what you said about the book. I don't think I have ever seen that before! I personally don't trust anything to do with the even down to the mommygram. I find it odd that when the mom talks about the bride they show both Liz and The Evil Shape Shifter. Great Post!!

By buckley point

09-30-2000, 02:30 AM

Hi again.
I just can't see how Tess has anything to contribute to the Podsters. Some one had mentioned on the last thread that the ability that she has seemed, I can't remember the word used, but something about the quality of the gifting. It had yet to be proved as to whether it was a good gifting or not. I have a tendency to believe that if something is bad, one of the first things it will do is set out to destroy something else. When she came on the scene the first thing she started to do is try to bring division where there had been true trust and loyalty. Is that something to add as a quality to any group of survivers that will need to count on each other?
But then there is Liz, everything she has done has been with the intention to build, the trust or the protection, or last, but not least, the answers. She is the one who can contribute the most. She is a human, who can draw others into helping and understanding.
I don't think that Tess can comprehend that kind of behavior, because it appears to have always been just her and Harding on the run.
However, Max would comprehend some of this, I believe, because he has, in his conscious mind atleast, always been in Roswell, and has been "raised" by "humans?"
Or has he?

By GraceKel

09-30-2000, 06:20 AM

Hi Zero here to add my two cents, you always come through for us with your super start to every new thread. Redhawk any posters and pics you decide on would be wonderful, I wish I had your talent.

QFanny I promise I am going to try to stop procrastinating and get that Grandma post to your archives this weekend.

This new board is incredibly fast isn't it?
How wonderful.

Welcome to all tie NEWBIES on this thread so glad you joined in, we love everyone bringing in new perspectives, and fresh ideas and I have been enjoying reading all your posts.

I want to read awhile longer b4 I chime in, with the board down for so long I have a lot of catching up to do on my reading, but I will be back to my fav thread soon.

By 47born

09-30-2000, 06:30 AM

starE: yes I agree with you about the "v" shape bringing Max out of trances. That has always been my thought.
In "Blind Date" when Max is still drunk and kisses Liz on stage, you see flashes and then you see the 5 square symbols, the "glowing v" on the cave wall, then the "v" (cloaked spaceship theory) and Max sobers up.
There were 5 healing stones and in "Balance". The 5 stones placed on the cave wall "map" glowed making a "V". Each stone was placed into a symbol, one was the orb symbol, one was the symbol burned into the library yard, one was the 5 squares that I feel have a lot of importance and the other two have not been defined as of yet.
In TLV yes when the "V" showed up it seemed to snap Max back to reality.
The only time I have seen the "V" shape that did not bring him out of a "trance" was in Four Square and I feel that it was because he was already in a Tess induced trance.

59.5 hrs!!!!!!!

By HyperKitN

09-30-2000, 10:26 AM

Wow! page 2 already and so many new people. WELCOME.

Zero-Great job as usual.

I know that on one of the past threads time travel was mentioned before and briefly discussed. It is kinda nice to talk about it again now that the season is sooo close. My take on the situation, if it is true, would be that maybe since we know that GC plays an important part w/liz & the mythology, she had been throwing obsticles in the way as to protect Liz. But something happened that made Liz a threat to the evil aliens again so came back to get rid of her. Max saves her and starts the whole cycle all over again. Maybe the podsters parishing in the future was what gave the aliens the idea the recreate their leaders as part human and send them back, so this time they would fit in better on Earth and fulfill the job that was required of them.

Also-I was looking at the promos screencaps on Crashdown. Man it looks like it is going to get pretty hairy this season. Max running through halls and Isabel looking all messy. Cant' wait.

By rosfan

09-30-2000, 01:11 PM

This thread was almost on the second page-can't let that happen so BUMP!

Also, I mentioned something on the last thread that a lot of you probably didn't see with switching to the new boards and all so I am going to say it again: If you look closely at one of the new promos, you see Ed Harding lying on the ground with blood coming out of his nose. This immediately reminded me of the White Room when Max was shown the virtual reality image of Liz dying with blood coming out of her nose (and it seemed to be the only injury she had). Is this one more piece of evidence that Liz could be an alien?

By Voyant

09-30-2000, 01:14 PM

Afternoon Everybody

Just thought I would bump this so more people can read the awesome theories you guys put out. All this and the new season hasn't started yet!!! It's almost here, can you stand it? About 55 hours and 45 minutes......

Voyant

By GraceKel

09-30-2000, 02:02 PM

Hi Hyperkitn so nice to see your familiar self posting again, just missed you thats all. I do think there is a strong tie in with Grandma Claudia no doubt about that.

QFANNY--this is just a quick response (probably not a fair one cuz I don't have long to give a good explanation but just to keep discussion going ) I would like to say about your theory about-----
Tess and Max's marriage being a political alliance----the thing that does't fit here is that Tess clearly tells Max in M2TM "but you do know me, cuz we're the SAME, you knew me from b4" I get the impression she was one of Max's people (probably in love with him and thought she SHOULD be his bride) but that Max chose someone from the DIFFERENT side to make his bride and that this did not sit well with people who did not think the other side worthy or did not like the interacial coupling or something---and then we have CIVIL WAR. Maybe fanatics on both sides could not accept this UNION.

By Zero

09-30-2000, 03:06 PM

Bumping though no time now!

Grace Kel - Glad to see you back!

Only 2 days!!

Zero :D

OT - I have to say - it bugs me that they use the scene from the end of Destiny - with M/I/M & T ( ) as the background for the "Roswell" title in the promos! The "alienation" of the humans, especially Liz, from the promos upsets me, BUT I do believe in the Writers. (I keep saying that to myself!) :D

By Starstruck

09-30-2000, 03:32 PM

Hi GraceKel, look at us actually making it on to the boards!

Thanks again Zero for your fantastic summery. I told Black Widow she should consider having you do a summary of this very excellent thread for next years yearbook!

StarE- Welcome to the discussion. I too watch faithfully with my husband, though this year Monday night football will take him away. He said tape it (as if I wouldn't) and I'll watch it with you later (like he has to twist my arm LOL)

Rosfan- maybe the blood coming out of the nose is the signature of another type of alin killing, you know like the silver handprint.

Our bathroom could be considered the house library, we have a book called Uncle john's absolutely absorbing bathroom reader. It contains all kinds of trivia and needless information. In it I found the following which I thought might interest my fellow Roswellians:
About Chile peppers- South American and Latin American peoples, including the Aztecs, revered the peppers. They were used for everything from treating upper-respiratory disorders to ritualistic morning beverages. Montezuma, the last Aztec emperor, drank a concoction of chocolate and hot chiles for breakfast. The Incas took their reverence a step further: Agar-Uchu, or "Brother Chile Pepper" in English, is one of the 4 brothers of the Incan creation myth.
Just found it kind of interesting that Montezuma also enjoyed "sweet and spicey"!

I find the idea of time travel intriguing and am not ruling it out. What makes me consider this is, if the mom-o-gram is real and our podsters were placed in the pod chamber at crashtime that means 50+ years have passed. Our group now has to consider with this message being this old is there even still anything left to fight for or to go back to. Plus the mom-o-gram says "so that I may once again hold you in my arms". This brings up so many questions- does the alien race age sifferently than the human race ensuringthat mom would still be around, is the alien planet one on which the human body could thrive? Time travel could at least answer the mom question, they'd just have to be careful not to go back to soon,so they wouldn't run into their former selves. OK now I'm just confusing myself.

38 hours 28 minutes to go!!! I feel like a kid on Christmas eve waiting for Santa to show up!!

I'm so glad these new boards are working so nicely. It's good to be back talking to you all

Starstruck
:max: :liz:

By redhawk

09-30-2000, 04:35 PM

Hi everyone!
Can you believe Monday's right around the corner!?!

Panola - I also found it very interesting how GC suddenly appears in LN after Max thinks it doesn't work. And what exactly is "it" anyway? What kind of power was that that Max had? We've seen Max heal, Michael move items, Isabel dreamwalk, and T*** create illusions. Supposedly they all have the ability to change the structure of things, but what exactly did Max do to GC? Or was he able to "do" anything at all? We've probably already discussed this, but my memory fails me. Any thoughts?

Okay, how about a little color...
Liz as Venus

By Starstruck

09-30-2000, 05:27 PM

OMG I can't do simple math today. This is what a head cold will do to you. The correct countdown from where I am is:

48 hours 30 minutes until showtime!!!

I won't be around tomorrow, have a great weekend. See you all on Monday.

Starstruck
:max: :liz:

By Panola	09-30-2000, 05:56 PM
Hey ya'll!

By Roswellrox

09-30-2000, 06:00 PM

YAY! My first post on the new board! 48hrs and 7mins to go here! Thanks to the Newbies for the new ideas! I thought I was getting used to the crazy way everyone's minds work here, but my eye balls are spinning after the whole "time travel" theory! I don't have much to say about that except... that might explain how they could possibly help 50 years later.

Zero~ the bloody nose thing is interesting. Do you remeber when Topolsky gave Alex a bloody nose by putting something in his drink? I wonder if there's a connection to that at all. Hmmm...

Here's a new thought...or at least a new one for me: In Destiny, Michael says to Max something like, "I kill people; you heal them." But what about in Into the Woods when Michael heals River Dog's ankle? Wouldn't that mean that Michael had somekind of power to heal too? It could be that Michael was just upset about killing someone, but he didn't even think about that...

Anywayz, I'll go now. I have lots of homework I should be doing.

Roswellrox

P.S. Redhawk, would you mind if I PMed or emailed you asking some questions about Graphic Design? I'm wanting to get into that field myself!

By Panola

09-30-2000, 06:08 PM

OOPS!!! Sorry hit the wrong button. Redwing, I had another thought about Max's attempt to heal GC. Whether Max tried to heal or contact her, GC was in a coma. Could Max have magnified (enhanced) GC's power (?) and partially released her spirit from the coma long enough to contact Liz. Is this a clue that GC is more than she appears? Also remember the tale of her bringing the hunters to justice. 49 hrs and counting. Panola

By Roswellrox

09-30-2000, 06:26 PM

Okay, I got off line and started thinking about homwework, but my brain wouldn't cooperate. I was rolling the whole time-travelling-alien thought around in my mind, and it occured to me that the "she" that the two gunmen were talking about could have been TESS! I mean think about it...What if the future they were from was one in which Max went along with the Momogram's destiny and married T***again in this life? What if those guys had seen in their own time what kind of destruction that T*** was going to cause? What if they somehow found out about the attraction that Max had to LIZ when they were young, and thought that if they got Max to act on those emotions before he met T*** then he wouldn't chose T***. Therefore the reason to shoot Liz (making it look like an accident/argument). Maybe the reason the of the gunmen said, "We've got to get rid of her!" was because the other one was having second thoughts about the plan to shoot Liz, but "her" was Liz...

Okay, I know that's probably not understandable, but I'm tired and I gotta figure out a way to shut off my brain, or I'll explode! Later!

By Roswellrox	09-30-2000, 06:28 PM
I meant to say "but 'her' was T***" at the end there... sorry... I'm going now. for real this time!

By Panola

09-30-2000, 06:29 PM

Sorry! I meant Redhawk!!!!! I just got new contacts and I'm going thru the adjustment period (that means I'm blind and can't see either). The image of GC talked to Liz and checked out Max like parents seem to do, definitely not a recording like the Momogram appears to be. The Momogram could have also been looking at other people. The viewers were only given individual face shots, whereas our perspectives may have been different if we could have seen all the individuals in the cave. If the Momogram was talking about the young bride, Liz was positioned next to Tess (in the previous shots Liz was standing 6 ft behind Tess). The angles of the camera can be clues or not!!!!! Panola

By fallen princess

09-30-2000, 06:31 PM

Hey everyone! I guess I'm kind of a lurker in these threads (I've only read this one and the last one) but I am fascinated by all of the new, intricate theories you all come up with!! You notice things I never would. I do notice some things (such as the fact that none of them knew how to translate the book so why were they letting it be such a big deal?), but I usually forget them soon Anyway, almost all of the theories posted here make total sense & are so interesting! Keep posting these...there's never a dull moment!

-fp...a die-hard dreamer.

P.S. Less than 2 days til the SP!!

By fallen princess

09-30-2000, 06:32 PM

Oh, and I have to add (too lazy to edit) that redhawk, your last graphic in particular was breathtaking!!!

By jen2themax

09-30-2000, 07:36 PM

quote:Originally posted by rosfan:
This thread was almost on the second page-can't let that happen so BUMP!

rosfan- I've been thinking about your question. The only thing I can figure is 'brain trauma'. Gee, not too original, huh?

My local WB showed 'Destiny' again tonight. I can't believe I have another question...! When Max is healing Kyle, it seemed like the 'blank white flashes' were of the same type Max had when he tried to help Liz say goodbye to Grandma Claudia. I wonder why? Is something or someone able to block the flashes?

By Reggie

09-30-2000, 08:33 PM

(delete treble post)

By Reggie

09-30-2000, 08:34 PM

(delete treble post)
Treble means triple, BTW.

By Reggie

09-30-2000, 08:46 PM

quote:Originally posted by starE:
I am still confused (even though you have addressed it before) why Nasedo saved Liz from that house of mirrors. I would love any new or old thoughts on that one!!

Can you believe that I actually got over my fear and posted? YEAH!!! :D

Congratulations! Painless, wasn't it?

As for Liz: I think that when Max showed up, as Liz predicted (remember Harding pooh-poohed the idea at first), Harding realized that his Leader would insist on saving Liz, even at his own peril. (Did it before!) Getting Liz out meant that he could then get Max out. Plus, Max would be able to resist the FBI longer than Liz, so it was safer for him to be captured for a little while than Liz. He would also be easier to rescue, since Max could be traced (by Isabel), while Liz couldn't.

By EL

09-30-2000, 08:48 PM

quote:Here's a new thought...or at least a new one for me: In Destiny, Michael says to Max something like, "I kill people; you heal them." But what about in Into the Woods when Michael heals River Dog's ankle? Wouldn't that mean that Michael had somekind of power to heal too? It could be that Michael was just upset about killing someone, but he didn't even think about that...

Roswellrox, the same thought struck me. In "Pilot", Max says to Liz that he and his fellow "non-humans" have the power to manipulate molecular structure, and that's how he healed her. If all three aliens have this ability, why can only Max heal serious wounds? The show also never elaborates why Max, Michael and Isabel each possess different powers. Despite my love of Roswell, I have to admit there are some serious gaps in the writing to overcome. It's still one of the best shows to watch on television.

By Reggie

09-30-2000, 09:05 PM

quote:Originally posted by EL:
Which brings me up to this bit of information's relation to Roswell - so what if Tess was his intended mate in a former life? Max isn't even a true clone of his former self; his genetic material has been mixed with that of a human, also take into consideration that he's been raised in a radically different environment than the "original" Max. Notice the cloning company's disclaimer - you can't clone a soul. Someone posted that in the Roswell High books (upon which Roswell is based), Liz remembers a conversation with Max in which they debate this very point, can a soul be cloned - a conversation which marked him as someone interesting in her mind, this being before they fell in love.

No, you're right. "Mom" said that their "essences", their souls, were indeed copied. The podsters are supposed to have the same basic personalities, talents, etc. as they did before. The copied souls were mixed with
human genetic material, so that the souls have (human) bodies. Really, Max should not even have the funny blood cells.

Let's also not forget that noone said Tesssss was an arranged bride, or responsable for getting everyone killed the first time. Proto-Max could have been deeply in love with Proto-Tess, and she with him. That may be why "Mom" sent her along. We just don't know yet. Maybe later tomorrow: it's after midnight!

By Panola	09-30-2000, 09:41 PM
Hey everyone! Well jen2the max, you have me curious about the flashes. Back to the video watching mode. Counting. Panola

By AussieCat

09-30-2000, 09:43 PM

It has taken awhile for me to get my thoughts into gear and I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned before. But when Liz has her voice over in SH she says:

... and lately I've been having these feelings, like I'm changing inside, and part of me doesn't want to change. Part of me always wants to be my mom's little girl. But the thing is, these feelings are strong, dangerous, undeniable. It's like I have no choice. It's like - chemical.

And Isabel and Max are talking in FS

Isabel: How about your body? I mean, did you feel like something was changing - like waking up?
Max: Something primal
Isabel: Instinctive
Max: Something not human.

It sounds alot alike to me does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Also, I have just noticed after watching BD at the end when Max is kissing Liz and they are having the shared visions not only was there the 'V' star formation but the rock formation which shows up in Michael/Isabel's dream and when Max is kissing T*** in TLV. Does this mean that Liz is also connected to the pod chamber somehow? Any ideas why it would appear?

PS: You guys are so lucky we aren't getting the new series until sometime next year!

By HyperKitN

09-30-2000, 10:34 PM

Thanx GK it was hard to post for awhile there. So could Max and Tess have been an alien Romeo and Juliet.

When ever I think of the different powers that they all have I always think of the Planet of the Apes. when it came down to it they all, including humans, came from the same genus (I think this is the right term I can't remember). Each of the apes had a specific class, humans being the lowest and orangutans being the wise ones (something like that).
The point I am trying to make is that maybe each class of the aliens on their planet had some specific skills they had to learn for what ever their "jobs" were along w/the basic abilities they are born with. Since Max and Isabel were royalty they probably can do certain things that Michael and Tess can't, yet since they are still high level members of the race they still have greater powers. Max possibly could have been trying to bring back GC, but instead brought out her earthly "essence" instead. It is too bad they did not follow that further.

I hope that this made some sort of sense. I am always correlating Roswell w/other Scifi stuff.

How many hours again :D

By fallen princess

09-30-2000, 11:27 PM

*bump* somebody post more stuff that I am too dense to come up with.

By GraceKel	10-01-2000, 07:00 AM
Hyperkitn could M and T have been an alien Romeo and Juliet--------NO WAY--did you read my post to Qfanny?

By GraceKel	10-01-2000, 07:31 AM
Very interesting observation about GC and the Kyle healings Jen2TheMax, I think you are right, they did seem similar didn't they, I will have to mull this one over for awhile.

By Palomino

10-01-2000, 08:08 AM

About the flashes in "Destiny" when Kyle was healed : There were flashes when the camera was on both faces, so the flashes may have been going both ways. They did not show us the flashes at the time, because the writers wanted the freedom to think about it, and mold the flashes to whatever they decided to do in the next season.

About GC : When Max went in her hospital room, he told Liz he couldnot stop what was going to happen, but maybe he could help her say good bye. Maybe he was going to briefly revive her, "channel" her, or do what actually happened. Perhaps he did not realize there would be a slight delay? Or maybe he failed, just as he thought, and GC appeared because she was dying and her soul had been released. This gets into supernatural as well as extra terrestrial, but I don't know if the writers intended to go into supernatural stuff.

By HyperKitN

10-01-2000, 10:06 AM

GK-sorry about the R/J thing I went temporarily stupid :eyespin: when I read your post to QF. I didn't read it clearly and now I understand what you said. I was wondering what you were talking about. But that could be true, Tess seems as though she is obsessed w/Max.

Here is a question-- How does mom-o-gram know that Max is actually w/his young bride? The evil aliens could have switched her w/Tess instead.

By EL

10-01-2000, 10:07 AM

quote:Thanx GK it was hard to post for awhile there. So could Max and Tess have been an alien Romeo and Juliet.

I wouldn't think so, HyberKitN only because the writers are pulling the "Romeo and Juliet" gambit with Max and Liz, and twice in succession is redundant. All we know at this junction is that the "original" Max and Tess were romantically involved in some apsect. But the several R&J references the writers stick in Roswell are quite obvious, now that I think about it. Besides the whole "they're in love but can't be together, how can it work" storyline, notice they situated Liz in a room with a balcony, or rooftop in this case, for Max to ascend. It smacks of Shakesperean romantic tragedy, WB style.

By jen2themax

10-01-2000, 11:30 AM

quote:Originally posted by Palomino:
[b] About GC : When Max went in her hospital room, he told Liz he couldnot stop what was going to happen, but maybe he could help her say good bye. Maybe he was going to briefly revive her, "channel" her, or do what actually happened. Perhaps he did not realize there would be a slight delay? Or maybe he failed, just as he thought, and GC appeared because she was dying and her soul had been released. This gets into supernatural as well as extra terrestrial, but I don't know if the writers intended to go into supernatural stuff.

Palomino- Thanks for the reply. I really feel there's more to Grandma Claudia.

Her association with the Native American culture, the book she wrote- 'Lost Treasures of the Navaho', the fact that she arrived at the Parkers' earlier than planned, Liz saying, "She's like the basis of my existence". I suppose the one thing that really stands out for me is that virtually the entire episode was about GC.

GC seemed to be doing quite well under Dr. Sanchez's care(Is there something up with him maybe?, he's a good guy I think!) When The Parkers take a break from the 'bedside vigil', GC takes a sudden turn for the worse. Did someone do something to her, and why?

1 more day...1 more day!

By jen2themax

10-01-2000, 11:57 AM

quote:Originally posted by EL:
I wouldn't think so, [b]HyberKitN only because the writers are pulling the "Romeo and Juliet" gambit with Max and Liz, and twice in succession is redundant. [/B]

EL- I agree with you. I just don't see an additional 'Romeo & Juliet' storyline! (visualizing WS spinning in his grave! )

[quote]All we know at this junction is that the "original" Max and Tess were romantically involved in some apsect.[quote]

Several of us on this thread believe that the Destiny 'Momogram' was a sham. It may have been generated by Tess alone or in concert with Nacedo, who had just left the Pod Chamber in the guise of Pierce. There were a lot of secretive looks between Tess & Nacedo before and after he shapeshifted. Perhaps that's why Tess was so insistent that Michael should turn the jeep around and go to the pod chamber, "Everything depends on it!", Tess said. Also, why drive from the airfield in Hobson & drag Nacedo's 'body' uphill to the pod chamber? They could've 'brought him back' sooner & in a much more convenient place. Was it because of the 'momogram' plan?

By fallen princess

10-01-2000, 12:54 PM

About GC, I remember reading all of the stuff on the last thread like this about her possibly having powers of her own, and her and Liz being connected to all the aliens; and how the whole DNA thing fits into it. It's a very interesting theory--and as a Dreamer I like it a lot...

quote:Several of us on this thread believe that the Destiny 'Momogram' was a sham. It may have been generated by Tess alone or in concert with Nacedo, who had just left the Pod Chamber in the guise of Pierce. There were a lot of secretive looks between Tess & Nacedo before and after he shapeshifted. Perhaps that's why Tess was so insistent that Michael should turn the jeep around and go to the pod chamber, "Everything depends on it!", Tess said. Also, why drive from the airfield in Hobson & drag Nacedo's 'body' uphill to the pod chamber? They could've 'brought him back' sooner & in a much more convenient place. Was it because of the 'momogram' plan?

It's a nice thought, what with the disdain toward the thought of Tess as Max's "young bride." But to me, I just wouldn't think that much into it. Max, Michael, Isabel, and Liz just seemed to accept it, and it seems as though it would be rather complicated to have it turn out to be a hoax.

By pieface

10-01-2000, 01:01 PM

Nothing new here, just some thoughts on the flashes. Before Max could heal Liz he insisted she look at him. How did he know to tell her to do that - you know, to look at him - and he was very adamant about that. "You HAVE to look at me" I guess it's just one of those "I just knew" answers. Bugs me though. The flashes Max had were of Liz's early memories of him and then his early memories of her. It is almost as if Liz and Max were "tapping" into each others memories-waking them up so to speak. A previous poster mentioned it was Liz' life passing before her eyes and Max was able to see it and feel it. I don't remember seeing the type of "white flash" that we saw with GC or with Kyle. Also, too, GC was unconscious so she could not "look" at him - so there were no memories to tap into. If Liz does indeed turn out to have powers (unknown at this point), perhaps it was she and Max together that made GC appear. They were both holding onto her arms. Perhaps GC made herself appear-she wasn't ready to leave yet. Palomino I really like the idea of channel/supernatural - it would fit in nicely with Native American shaman/shapeshifter theories.

When Kyle was healed by Max, I do remember Max looking at Kyle but it seemed to me as if Kyle was out of it by then, judging by the way he opened his eyes when the healing was over. All we were shown were the same white flashes as with GC.

When Michael healed Nasedo's ankle, he had flashes of the rock formation and the map on the desert floor. His flashes triggered that memory. Perhaps it was just because Nasedo was involved in his healing. Also, too, he did not look into Nasedo eyes when he healed him.

I guess I'm not really going anywhere with this other than the fact that Max has been drawn to Liz for his whole life - that's why he was at the Crashdown in the first place. I think Max up until this point probably just thought he had an incredible crush on this girl and because of the fact he was "different" he could only just try and be around her as much as possible. I'm in the camp that thinks Liz was shot intentionally that day. I don't believe they knew Max was going to save her. Then again, it could have been to draw him out. What ever happened to Bevis and Butthead anyway? I would just love for the writers to explain some of these mysteries for us! I definitely believe it's the writers intention to drive us insane with all the unnswered questions. agghhhhhh!

just waiting for Monday night.......

By Palomino

10-01-2000, 02:29 PM

I really think Grandma Claudia is tied into all this somehow, because of the Native Americans. Jeff looks to be in his forties, so GC would have to be at least sixty, but she doesn't look old enough to be much over seventy, in 1999. This would make her eight to maybe twenty at the time of the crash. If she was somehow involved, the crash may have steared her towards a career in archeology, or she may have been a student at the time (maybe at a dig). What if GC met Nasedo at the time of the crash or at the reservation, and he had gained her trust? What if he came to visit her when she had her granddaughter with her? What if he did something to Liz with or without GC's knowledge? What if T-t/Nasedo altered her "energy signature" to be Max's soulmate? Did he know something about Tess that Harding did not know?

By rosfan

10-01-2000, 02:31 PM

Hmmm, this thread on the second page again? Nope, I don't think so! BUMP!

To add something new: During the momogram vision, she refers to her son, his young bride, her daughter, daughter's betrothed and second in command. This led most of us to believe that alien mom was refering to 4 different people (thus that daughter's betrothed and the second in command are one and the same). But what if she was referring to 5 different people:
1) son/beloved leader
2) his young bride
3) daughter
4) daughter's betrothed
AND
5) second in command

I don't know, it is just a thought.

By HyperKitN

10-01-2000, 02:53 PM

Ros- I remember the discusion on the betrothed thing. I don't know if I buy it only because there were only 4 pods, but I do think there is something hinky about the pod squad.

I don't think that Max telling Liz to look into his eyes really ment anything. When ever someone is being saved on tv they always tell that person to look at them. Giving something to focus on instead of death.

El-that was a mistake on my part when I read GK's post. But I do agree that the theme is set perfectly for Max and Liz

By jjj

10-01-2000, 02:58 PM

rosfan- what a great concept:
But what if she was referring to 5 different people:
1) son/beloved leader
2) his young bride
3) daughter
4) daughter's betrothed
AND
5) second in command

With that reasoning Max could be the son/leader, Liz -the young bride, Tess - the daughter, Michael - the betrothed AND Isabel as the second in command.

Works for me - gets Liz & Max together and gets a great spot for Is and womankind!

jjj

By seattlechic

10-01-2000, 07:44 PM

This is my first day on the Roswell site and chat room. I was thrilled to see Sheri's name in the credits of the new season. I thought they got rid of her and I was going to refuse to watch the show ever again. I believe she is the most important character on the show. She is the one who "discovered" the alien presence and thus the show. As to her mythology... I am glad I am not the only one who believes that Tess as the "young bride" is part of an arranged union, possibly to help the conflict on their planet. I do beleive that Liz is human. I think she is a more powerful character as a human than a fellow alien. The aliens were sent to Earth and engineered as humans for a reason. Humans must have a part of the alien destiny in their quest to save their word or their ideals on earth. Humans and Earth must have a large part in their Destiny.

The other ideals, Hubble's girl, Grandma C, etc... while interesting, I don't see the Producer of the show picking up on these details. It looks like he picked up the Tess angle and is running with it, lessening the Human role in Roswell's destiny as a show. I hope this is only a ploy and that we will see the Human (especially the LIZ) desinty refigured into the show.

One more day. I can't wait. I'm addicted to Roswell.

By Qfanny

10-01-2000, 08:20 PM

quote:Originally posted by starE:

I am still confused (even though you have addressed it before) why Nasedo saved Liz from that house of mirrors. I would love any new or old thoughts on that one!!
D

starE: I am glad you posted! This one is confusing to me too. I think the general opinion is that Harding thought Max could handle a few FBI guys with his powers while he got Liz out of there. Harding seemed pretty disappointed that M/Mi/I were not as advanced with power using as Tess.

I am still reading page one... I bet someone already answered this Q.

By buckley point

10-01-2000, 09:23 PM

I think there is going to be a lot of surprises in the next season.

I'm going to enjoy just seeing how creatively the writers put everything together, they have done an excellent job so far.

Anything can happen, and ultimately, as long as everything goes together with the level of quality in all areas that it has, there will be lots of interesting things for everyone to have fun watching, dreaming, and having thoughts about.

(Just bumping)

By shaiwon72

10-01-2000, 09:51 PM

quote:Originally posted by jjj:

With that reasoning Max could be the son/leader, Liz -the young bride, Tess - the daughter, Michael - the betrothed AND Isabel as the second in command.

Works for me - gets Liz & Max together and gets a great spot for Is and womankind!

jjj

that's another interesting way to interpret the momogram. maybe it's just me or maybe it's the dreamer in me but you could see some of the "warrior" in max, iz, and mike. they are headstrong in their convictions. not that i really hate tess, she's more of a pain, but ever since she's signed on, i don't really see the "warrior" like attributes that the 3 possess. it's more like a whiny person that's going around w/ a book in her hand saying... 'it's meant to be.' , 'we belong together', etc. if she is the young wife, she really does not show much strength in herself as our liz does. she shows her own strength in her way.
liz is a strong character. the whole, "it's meant to be" should be thrown out the window. it may be on the home planet, but on earth, it's a different matter. you're on human turf.

Just my 2 cents.
~~emjay

20 more hours YAY!!!

By Evid

10-01-2000, 09:58 PM

Hi Everyone: Wow it's been awhile since I've posted. I've been enjoying all the excitement over at the Cherishing Thread. I posted the song Tomorrow from Annie, to celebrate the new season, come on over and sing along. Anyway the reason I'm here.

Ok, We have been discussing Time Travel again I see, and this is what I have to add.

In the books they dicuss a wormhole, it's a tear in a blackhole, if memory serves me correctly. Liz calls it a shortcut threw space and it's some kind of tunnel. I know the show may not follow the books but they do have a few similaritys.
What I notice on 285 south, Riverdog, ID, M2M and Destiny. Maybe some I might have missed, HELP GRACEKEL, they show tunnels. On 285 south, Michael drops threw a tunnel in the museum. Riverdog, Liz finds the passage to escape, that is a tunnel. ID, Micheal sits outside a tunnel waiting for a ride. M2M, the pod squad drives threw a tunnel, in search of Liz, this looks like the same tunnel as in ID. Destiny, Max and Liz walk threw a drainage system, trying to escape, again this resembles a tunnel. Not to mention the tunnel in Liz's visions when she kisses Nasedo.
Nasedo tells Micheal, you are programmed to be several thousand years ahead of mankind and also Nasedo and Tess both say more then once, timing is everything.
So what do you think? Is the pod squad from several thousand years into the future? Does coming threw a wormhole require perfect timing, and did Max make the trip to find Liz? Let me know what you think.

Evid

By Lorrilei1960

10-01-2000, 10:37 PM

Hi all... I haven't been over to this thread before because the other Sci-fi threads seemed to keep my mind in a whirl enough... but I've skimmed through this one and had a very far out thought (as usual )

we get to play the "what if" game again
What if...
There was another podster who was killed in the crash, Max's real bride, and someone (one of the Nasedos) retrieved the essence and imprenated Sheila Hubble with it... Sheila was killed in an attempt by the EA to kill the fetus. Edsedo then retrieved the essence from Sheila again (which is how she got the silver-iron on) and mixed it with DNA from Sheila Hubble and created a new little podster who was (and here goes the very far out speculation part of this scenerio) then hatched as a baby and adopted by the Parkers. The podster that was killed in the crash was Max's true intended... and the baby was drum roll, please Liz. She has Max's bride's true essence, and is human, too.

Gee, this is fun!

By RozRules

10-01-2000, 10:38 PM

<<Interesting point of view about time travel. but if they were aliens why wouldn't they have just attempted to kill liz when she was a lot younger. >>

I just thought of this, but what if they have tried to kill liz when she was younger? Was killing Sheila Hubble a way of trying to get to Liz? Or was Liz actually Sheila's daughter? This theory is definatly fringe worthy but, what if Liz was the unborn child as stated in Zero's summary and then thinking that Liz was dead 'the bad aliens' left and haven't realized till now that she is still alive.

Maybe after they were left for dead and Nasedo came along he tried to heal her and that would explain the silver hand print on Sheila and also why Nasedo seemed to want to protect liz; because he feels responsible for her. Any thoughts on this? I know there are some holes in it and I'm trying to fill them in.^_^

~Christina

By Lorrilei1960	10-01-2000, 10:59 PM
RozRules... your thoughts dove tail very nicely with my somewhat harebrained speculations

By RozRules	10-01-2000, 11:43 PM
hehehe. I guess we think alike since we posted at almost the same time. Our two theories definatly go hand in hand. Also, another way to explain Liz's human cells could be that Sheila was an alien to begin with and Everett was a human, therefore making Liz only half alien and she inherited the human cells over the alien.

By Panola

10-02-2000, 12:24 AM

I have a thought with respect to some of the speculation about Liz and her origins. Liz's mom said to the effect "I have to protect you." Her mom reminded me of Nasedo when he said, "it's my job to protect you." The same intensity from both people really made me wonder about Liz's background and her mother. Liz's mom had absolutely no interest in interacting with GC when she came for her visit. Maybe the writers were leaving out people's responses in order to fit the show into the alloted time slot. However those scenes caused me to replay them. My girl friend finally watched Destiny with her daughter. She also caught Momogram's wording of the 4 (5) people and she asked me if I caught her words. I replayed that scene and the words do seem to be a little hurried as if she really could be saying 5. If the momogram actually said 5 people, that would explain the five stars. I can't wait for tomorrow.

By 47born

10-02-2000, 05:52 AM

A new theory that I am taking from Balance, Four Square, Destiny and one of the new promos in reference to 5 people being hatched.
Remember that in Four Square there are four pods.Tess is in one of them, either actually or by mind game. That only leaves 3 more pods, Max, Isabelle and Michael.
In Balance Max told Liz that when he came out of the pod, he came across Isabelle first and then Michael.
In Destiny, the mom-o-gram says she sent her son, his wife, her daughter, her betrothed and second in command (could be four or five podsters).
In the new promo, you see Isabelle walking in "a" pod chamber saying "I'm not one of you." Also when she saw the pod chamber with Max, Michael and Tess, she said " No, I don't beleive this. It's not right." ( or something to that nature)and walks out.
My theory is that there are more than one pod chamber yet near each other. Just because there are only four pods in the one chamber in which Tess insists that she was one of the four, does not mean they all "hatched" from the same chamber. There was a lot of speculation on this thread at one time that in the promo there were more than four pods in the "green chamber" where Isabelle seems to be making her comment about "I'm not one of you".
Tess could have taken Max, Michael and Isabelle to the "evil pods" chambers, not the one they came from. That could explain Nasedo being upset with her for "bringing them here". Also the mom-o-gram could have actually taken place in the "evil chamber", not their own.
Any thoughts?

12 hours and counting!!!!!

By Roswellrox

10-02-2000, 07:43 AM

T-minus 11 hrs and 20 minutes! I'm getting more and more pumped as the minutes tick by!

Okay, there seems to be a lot of speculation about Sheila Hubble, but I haven't heard many people give explaination as to why she may ultimately be significant. Could it be that Sheila was the second alien that lived after the '47 crash? I agree that the hand print on Shiela's body could have been Nasedo trying to save her, but that still doesn't clear up why she's important. Maybe I'm just perpetually confused about that part of the theory... I don't know. I have a feeing though, that we will have more questions than answers after tonight's show! If someone understands (or at least thinks they do) about the whole Shiela Hubble thing, could you please reiterate the theory? You can be very brief if you want...

Thanks!

By LizParkerfan

10-02-2000, 08:12 AM

Hello fellow mythologist.

I'm so excited SECOND SEASON.

I'm personally am waiting to hear that Sheila was been alive the whole time and looking after Liz. Maybe Grandma Claudia was Sheila's sister or something? Oh well bye for now.

:max: + :liz: =
conquers all even mind control.
Remember :liz: is half

By StephStephSteph	10-02-2000, 08:41 AM
Maybe tonight we'll have some MORE things to think about and post on!! Can't wait until 9:00 PM!!!!

By HyperKitN

10-02-2000, 08:54 AM

What is everyone so excited about, it's just ROSWELL

Just Kidding

Evid- I remember about the wormholes in the books, thanx for bring that up. It makes possible sense because the scene that Liz sees when she kisses Maxcedo is of something similar to a wormwhole w/lightening(SP). And all the tunnels in the show make sense and fortelling to me. They always seem to do this on this show. Remember the alien holding the baby in the background of the crashdown, then we see Isabel dreaming about having an alien baby.

Good observation.

By Evid

10-02-2000, 10:14 AM

HyperKitN: Thanks for the reply. Were is the rest of the old gang? I'm sure just like me you can't wait until tonight. Let's just see how long it's going to take the writers, to give us some answers.

Ok, I found a very good clue as to why I think Tess is not part of the pod squad and might very well be a "shapeshifter," just like Nasedo.
On 4 square Tess gets the book from the libery wall, right. Now think about it, "she puts her hand in the wall." If she can put her hand threw, why not her whole body? Liz can't find Tess in the girls bathroom and then suddenly she appears, was she in the wall? Talk about a fly on the wall, listening in, how about a snake in the wall. Nasedo comes out of the cavewall, so this tells me that Tess like Nasedo is a shapeshifter.
Now tell me posters, is this a clue or what?

Evid

By Zero

10-02-2000, 10:16 AM

I'm anxiously awaiting this evening, and the beginning of Season 2! I can hardly wait to see if any of the wonderful theories developed on this thread show up! Here's to a wonderful first episode!

BTW - Welcome to all the newbies - even if you have been lurking for awhile!

Zero :D

By LizParkerfan

10-02-2000, 12:02 PM

Bumping this wonderfully insightful thread.

+ =
conquers all even mind control.
Remember is half

By Qfanny

10-02-2000, 12:34 PM

Hi everybody!

GraceKel: I thought I posted a response to you. I must believe that Max/Tess was a political union (although it may not be an intergalatic one).

Things make so much more sense if you believe that Max is the "prince of Twilo" and his marriage to Tess was in fact to stop a war. If the Twilonese use a monarchy as a political system, then raises Isabels and Michael's Importance! It also explains why Tess is important to the pod squad.

I really do think that there are political factions on both sides that do not want the "marriage" to happen, in the past life or this one.

Liz is definately Max's choice, but will he choice her when an entire world's fate could be resting on M/T union???????

By StephStephSteph

10-02-2000, 12:39 PM

quote:Originally posted by Evid:
HyperKitN: Thanks for the reply. Were is the rest of the old gang? I'm sure just like me you can't wait until tonight. Let's just see how long it's going to take the writers, to give us some answers.

Evid

I often wondered about this. Where DID Tess get that book from? It sort of came out of the air (or the wall). I know that the Pod Squad can change molecular shapes, but.. well, that just seemed totally out of the air. Like she made it appear - created it herself.

I'm full on in agreement with the idea that Tess is NOT who she appears to be. However, I totally love Liz and might just be hoping so badly for this to happen that I've convinced myself of things that simply aren't true.

When I was watching the Promo for tonights Premiere and Isabelle says "IT's you!" I can't help but think it's Liz.. coming out as part alien.. doing something fabulous and Isabelle seeing it and going "It's you" as in "It's you who's the fourth member of the Pod Squad"

A girl can dream, right!?

By redhawk

10-02-2000, 12:57 PM

Woohoo! Happy Roswell Premiere Day!
Was I supposed to get any actual work done today? Nah.

Roswellrox - Send me a PM or email anytime. I'd be glad to help out if I can.

Thanks, fallen princess - welcome to the thread!

Hi seattlechic and all the other newbies!

Ooo... Evid... I think you may be on to something. It always bugged me how Tess just magicly appears in the restroom after Liz looks under the stall doors.

And Evid, about the time travel thing...
Wouldn't the aliens have to have time travel to know what the humans would be like in 3000 years? Hope that helps.

Only a little bit longer. I can't wait to see if the writers will be half as creative as we are.
Where it all began...

pics for animation from Vidiot's promos and the Crashdown.

By Qfanny

10-02-2000, 01:07 PM

I thought you'd find this interesting: I have counted 22 seperate theories from this thread (Zero's introduction).

Here they are:
1) Liz as second in Command or human leader for Destiny Plan:
2) Liz has a dormant power:
3) Liz was altered in the reverse connection:
4) Liz's parents:
5) Liz's connection to Indians:
6) Liz v Shelia Hubble:
7) Liz & Max- Soulmates:
8) DNA factor in alien biology:
9) Liz & Max's destiny:
10) Liz or Tess as the Bride:
11) "WE HAVE TO GET RID OF HER":
12) Liz & Grandma Claudia:
13) V-Constellation or Liz as Venus:
14) 4+1:
15) Cave Painting:
16) Visitation of ITW-cloaked spaceship:
17) Time theories:
18) TicTac v Harding:
19) Orbs:
20) Colors:
21) Ed Harding & Liz:
22) Handholding

What is not covered here?????

By RozRules

10-02-2000, 01:23 PM

<<When I was watching the Promo for tonights Premiere and Isabelle says "IT's you!" I can't help but think it's Liz.. coming out as part alien.. >>

Thats what I keep thinking too, but then again I'm also a total Dreamer BUT have you seen in the latest promo where Max says 'Your one of us aren't you' and then it shows a pic of Liz! Keep the hope alive Dreamers

~Christina

By GraceKel

10-02-2000, 02:04 PM

Hi my fellow mythologists, Happy Season2 Premiere Day to ALL of you. We have been waiting for months for this woohoo, I believe I feel like Liz cleaning that milkshake machine right now!!!LOL!!!

Evid love all your ideas about the wormholes and the tunnels, of course, you are right, I didn't really think about them but they are in so many episodes, hmmmmmm!!!!!

And Evid so Tessy still could be T.he E.vil S.hape S.hifter after all LOL---well nothing would please me more---very good points about the walls in the bathroom and the book in the library.

Something else I noticed in the library when Max stands on shelf to watch Tess take this book from the library wall--did you notice the background Ranch or FARM houses---it this a clue--Pulman Ranch or Hattie Wexlers farm?

RozRules as much as I share your enthusiasm that Liz could be one of them or has the brides essense I think they will DRAG this one out like FOREVER.

QFanny well what you say could be right, but it the fate of the world hangs on a M and T union then all I can say is LET THE WORLD PERISH LOL!!!! No seriously I think the UNION that is trying to be prevented here is Max and Liz but thats just me.---You will know them ONLY BY THE EVIL WITHIN---I think this could take awhile.

By MsSarBehr

10-02-2000, 02:16 PM

well said everyone. i never even doubted it couldent be tess in the momogram. but now you have me thinkin. when i think of a character i think of liz as the main one because EVERYONE relates to her. i think that gurl could have something inside of her developing powers because many other times when max healed- NO VISIONS see!! did that get ya thinkin?? :pinky: also i think it would be intresting for her to develop powers. cool story line
PEACE AND ROSWELL

By Starstruck

10-02-2000, 02:34 PM

No time to catch up on my reading today, just wanted to pop in and wish everyone a happy season 2 day!!!!!I'm soooo excited and a little nervous too. I hope the writers can keep chalenging us the way they did .

HAPPY BIRTHDAY HYPERKITN !!!!! My Mom who shares your birthday sends Birthday greetings as well. What a nice gift the WB gave you.

Only 3 hours and 20 minutes to go!!!! Max Evans has put a force on me!

Happy viewing
Starstruck

:max: liz:

By GraceKel	10-02-2000, 02:40 PM
Just wanted to jump back in with Happy Birthday to Hyperkitn as well I didn't know it was you birthday, what better way to celebrate it than a brand NEW ROSWELL eppy.

By Qfanny

10-02-2000, 03:01 PM

quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
QFANNY--this is just a quick response (probably not a fair one cuz I don't have long to give a good explanation but just to keep discussion going ) I would like to say about your theory about-----
Tess and Max's marriage being a political alliance----the thing that does't fit here is that Tess clearly tells Max in M2TM "but you do know me, cuz we're the SAME, you knew me from b4" I get the impression she was one of Max's people (probably in love with him and thought she SHOULD be his bride) but that Max chose someone from the DIFFERENT side to make his bride and that this did not sit well with people who did not think the other side worthy or did not like the interacial coupling or something---and then we have CIVIL WAR. Maybe fanatics on both sides could not accept this UNION.

GraceKel: I think Tess was fudging the truth a bit. I wouldn't put it past her. What if she should have said this: "but you do know me, because we are the same (and) you knew me from before." That and could put a whole different spin on things.

By Qfanny

10-02-2000, 03:04 PM

GraceKel:

This is too good---

quote:
And Evid so Tessy still could be T.he E.vil S.hape S.hifter after all LOL---well nothing would please me more---very good points about the walls in the bathroom and the book in the library.

I love it!

By Melodious1

10-02-2000, 03:41 PM

Happy season premiere day y'all!! I've been discussing this with clarinetkate (a closet Liz Mythologist), it's something that I thought was odd from "Destiny", something Tess says. Sorry, it doesn't really have a lot to do with the thread, just something that makes me distrust Tess and/or Harding more. It's been bugging me.

Tess says that Harding told her if *anything* should happen to him, she should (they should?) go to the pod chamber. Why did he tell her this and when? Was it to make sure they'd listen to the orb message? To possibly wait for a *signal* from home? To hide? I got the impression that they're (or Tess is) supposed to wait for HIM to come to the pod chamber... no matter what (even after being shot 4 or 5 times)? Could he have still managed to gain enough strength / consciousness to wander back to the chamber by himself? Tess says he *can't die*, but he seemed pretty lifeless in Isabel's *Pierce awake-walking* (and just prior healing). It seems kind of unlikely he could have gotten all the way to the chamber himself (but then I think of a particular scene in the new promo of a bloody yet seemingly conscious Harding...?).

This *is* Harding (and Tess), I wouldn't put much past either of them. If Harding was able to make it back to the chamber by himself (despite the shots he took)... the same would go for those "two dead retrieved from the crash" and/or the Eagle Rock experimentee, if they're like Harding, right? Could this be another clue of possibly 3 (or more) aliens (shapeshifters?) roaming around??

Melodious

By Evid

10-02-2000, 03:47 PM

Hay Everybody, 5 hours and ticking, NM time, until I'm glued to the set.

StephStephSteph: Yes, I also feel I'm a little bias when it comes to Liz, but that's why I search for clues, to prove that Liz is special and that Tess is only around to destroy, destroy and destroy. We don't trust Tess for a reason, the writers have given us plenty of clues not too.
I'm one of the Liz is humen but altered supporters. I think Roswell writers want us to think Liz is half Alien, they have made it too obvious, therefore she's not.

redhawk: Thanks, how would Harding know what the humens could do in the future? Great catch. I just love your animation, but my favorite is the spinning and kissing promo, hay, you know I'm a Dreamer.

GraceKel: Now where have you been? I really have missed you. So are you prepared for the new season? New tapes, new VCR, snacks, something to drink, something soft to toss at the screen when they show the evil one, tissue for Max/Liz scenes and let's not forget the don't speak or make a sound when Roswell is on sign. Let me know how many times you watch it tonight. See you on the boards, pod bud.

Qfanny: Thanks for the list, looks like you have everything, boy have we been busy.

By dreamin_away

10-02-2000, 04:11 PM

Hey, peoples!! I'm new and I just wanted to say your theories are amazin! I was thinkin about the pods and here's one I came up with:

If you've ever read the series, you know Max and Isabel shared a pod. So if they shared a pod, but totally forgot about it, or no one realized it then maybe there is a fifth alien and maybe the mamogram really did say five! Although I can't think of a way to connect liz to the pod, I know she would be connected to it.

By jen2themax

10-02-2000, 04:22 PM

quote:Originally posted by Melodious1:
Happy season premiere day y'all!! I've been discussing this with clarinetkate (a closet Liz Mythologist), it's something that I thought was odd from "Destiny", something Tess says. Sorry, it doesn't really have a lot to do with the thread, just something that makes me distrust Tess and/or Harding more. It's been bugging me.

This *is* Harding (and Tess), I wouldn't put much past either of them. If Harding [b]was able to make it back to the chamber by himself (despite the shots he took)... the same would go for those "two dead retrieved from the crash" and/or the Eagle Rock experimentee, if they're like Harding, right? Could this be another clue of possibly 3 (or more) aliens (shapeshifters?) roaming around??

Melodious[/B]

QUOTE]Originally posted by jen2themax:
Several of us on this thread believe that the Destiny 'Momogram' was a sham. It may have been generated by Tess alone or in concert with Nacedo, who had just left the Pod Chamber in the guise of Pierce. There were a lot of secretive looks between Tess & Nacedo before and after he shapeshifted. Perhaps that's why Tess was so insistent that Michael should turn the jeep around and go to the pod chamber, "Everything depends on it!", Tess said. Also, why drive from the airfield in Hobson & drag Nacedo's 'body' uphill to the pod chamber? They could've 'brought him back' sooner & in a much more convenient place. Was it because of the 'momogram' plan?
jen2themax[/QUOTE]

Great minds think alike!!! Somethings fishy...and I don't mean with gills!

Evid- Tess & The bathroom wall and Harding & The pod chamber wall...ooooh!!! Nice catch! The 'Destiny book' has always irked me, too! (It's not like we can verify it by checking the Library of Congress, huh? !)

By CottonCandy9798	10-02-2000, 04:26 PM
Good THeroy Zero!!

By starE

10-02-2000, 04:43 PM

quote:Originally posted by rosfan:
Hmmm, this thread on the second page again? Nope, I don't think so! BUMP!

I don't know, it is just a thought.

Rosfan: That is so amazing because my husband said the same thing! I wasn't sure because I was too busy running to puke over the bride thing. You guys are soooo smart :D

By starE

10-02-2000, 05:01 PM

I'm not trying to double post it's just like I have a sickness that I somehow can't stop posting!! I have been having a tape watching marathon, in order to get ready for the big premiere (yeah ) and I noticed in the recaps that they show at the beginning of every episode that every one since Tess showed up has show her saying "I can make people see things that aren't there."

Now common sense tells me that these recaps are what the producers want new people to know about the show if they haven't been watching, right?

I truly believe that alot of what we know about Tess is manufactured by her ablities. Alot of us agree I know but, what I believe is truly interesting is WHY? If she isn't who she says she is, than who is she and most importantly - WHO IS LIZ?? ??

ps - why couldn't all of my college papers been this easy to write?

4 hours!! :firehop:

By dreamin_away	10-02-2000, 05:22 PM
rosfan: I think you are right about the five character thing. Somethings missing with just the four of them. Of course, the humans are just as important, but Tess doesn't seem to think that.

By Qfanny

10-02-2000, 07:52 PM

After seeing the S&B eppy I am bugged about just how adjusted Liz is to not being with Max. Right before I watched the season premire I watched the pilot. The pilot seemed to gear up for the Liz/Max relationship, while S&B seems to gears us out of the relationship. I yelled at my TV at one point upset over the lack of M/L.

Anyway. I had to post just to bump the thread.! I never want to see it on page two again!

By lcreich

10-02-2000, 08:09 PM

i just want to add to the grandma part. When max send or project grandma into the room. she was send into her left side of the room. She see Liz and Max. So she must see herself lying in a hospital bed too. The question is "Why was she surprise at all?"
She was very clam. I don't think any human seeing him/sheself lying in a hospital bed will be that clam. And the first thing she said was" this must be Max". If she know something about alien. Then i see the reason why she was not surprise and know Max did that and he is an alien. And the led to another question "Why was she so happy to see Max and hind her granddaughter Liz to date(to love) a alien". Since Liz and her grandma had the soulmate talk, grandma know that Liz had two guy in her head Kyle an Max. She also got the idea that Liz is not in love with Kyle. She had a lot of experience with people, so led me to think that she know someone that Liz like or love(in her heart) someone and that would be Max. Since the reaction liz had what Maria sid it. For most of us, my granddaughter loving(dating) an alien is a no go. she felt very safe or ok for Liz to date an alien. The way i look at it is that she was an alien or have understand Max's alien race are nice being. If she was an alien then that answer a lot of questions about Liz.

By volleytwin

10-02-2000, 08:25 PM

hey guys love the season opener.

Did you guys notice that it was Liz that gave Max the solution to saving Micheal. She off the top of her head remember information that most of us would forget about. She remember something a teacher said, amazing that she could put 2 and 2 together. Is this becoming a habit for Liz? Giving Max the guidence that he needs. It's seem as if there is something more to her. Can't wait to see what the writers have in store.

volleytwin

By GraceKel

10-02-2000, 09:02 PM

Well Volleytwin you beat me to it, thats exactly what I noticed about the eppy too, was that the cooler heads of Max and LIZ prevailed and saved the day without any killing. NOW TELL ME THEY AREN'T A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH HUH ZERO??????

I will have to watch the episode a few hundred times more b4 posting any CLUES LOL!!!

I will say that I thought LIZ AND MAX looked stunning throughout this episode, Alex looked pretty darn good, Pierce is very hot, did he have to turn out to be evil, I don't like the fake hair on Maria, I thought she looked better at the end of last season with her own hair myself.
Isabel is so beautiful and yet I felt they had her dressing too bimbo like, of course I would expect that from Tess(at one point I thought one of her breasts was going to pop out of that tank top). Michaels hair I think looked better spiked, Deputy Hansen looks like he lost weight didn't he?
Sheriff Valenti looked a little ragged looking like he needed to find his razor but maybe they are trying to show some worry and wear and tear this whole alien thing is causing him I don't know. Well those are just my thoughts but I am sure others feel differently and thats okay too.

Oh Evid LOL about the "don't anyone make a sound LOL. Be back later.

By Roswellrox

10-02-2000, 10:46 PM

I'm just on a Roswell high! I just watched Skin and Bones, and I came to FF first! lol Anywayz, I'll have to watch the ep. a hundered more times before posting anything profound, but I would like to comment on some things.

First off~ some people didn't like the new dynamic between Liz and Max, but I loved it! After everything that happened in Destiny, I'm glad the writer distanced the characters some. It would have been fakey if they had all been chummy and romantic so soon.
Second~ how about that FLASH!?! Liz was remembering what she and Max had before. What was interesting was that Max didn't seem to know that LIz was having a flash. Also, the flash happened with a simple touch (not a steamy kiss). Could this mean that our Liz is changing even more, to where she's even more intuned to Max than ever?
Third~ little rants... Michael needs a comb, Maria needs a little more spunk again, and Alex needs to go out there and take his woman back! What's up with Iz falling all over that geologist guy? Sheesh!

I'm off to watch it again! More later!

Roswellrox now and forever!!!

By Lorrilei1960	10-02-2000, 11:10 PM
re about Liz as Sheila's biological daughter (or something of that nature) Nasedo always seemed to try to push Liz out of the way, and push Tess on Max... If Liz truly were Max's intended, perhaps Nasedo had his own agenda for replacing her with Tess (such as the political marriage thing) This has probably been stated before, but it was a new thought to me

By shapeshifter

10-02-2000, 11:11 PM

So, since Liz is the chosen of the King, how can anyone doubt her importance?

And I am guessing the Congresswoman did NOT have flashes. Guess she's just not special.

BTW, remember in TLV (I think) when Liz was crushed to learn that Max had a "flash" (well, a Tessovision) when he allegedly kissed Tess? Well, it seems that Liz is still the only unalienable human having flashes.

By czech please

10-02-2000, 11:18 PM

more on stuff i've posted elsewhere:

there is definitely something going on with Liz. she knows more than she's letting on and that knowledge seems to be making her uncomfortable. remember, no one saw her all summer, and she was conspicuously absent
from or late to every group gathering in "s&b." i thought the scene of her hanging back on the stairs listening while Nasedo talked about killing people is going to be symbolic of other things that happen this season. also wonder why she chose to work for the congresswoman and seemed to plan on keeping it a secret until she ran into Max. clearly she has no loyalty to Whitaker. i almost get the feeling that she's doing some solo undercover work, partly to help the aliens and partly for her own reasons that we'll learn about later. for some
reason, this makes her feel like she has to step back from the group, maybe because she wants all the facts before she let's them in (the return of Liz the Scientist). i don't think she's doing anything "evil," and i *know* she still loves Max, but what is she hiding? i really want to know what she was doing over the summer.

I've often wondered if Nasedo hasn't been using Liz to test Max. The "don't mistake what you want to be real from what is..." line in s&b, coming right after "you saw your destiny with your own eyes" bit and right before a rather mysterious wink. It also made me think back to "max to the max," when he told Liz the "don't believe everything you see" riddle. I think that Liz's secret is (at least partly) about her connection to the aliens, and that she learned about it from Nasedo himself. Remember her flashes in "Max to the Max?" And the fact that Nasedo took her because "Pierce knew what Max did to her" and would be interested in studying her, too. So,what if Liz and Nasedo teamed up in some way, each for their own reasons? Florida isn't *that* far from D.C.

By deidra e, jones

10-03-2000, 12:05 AM

You guys are what kept me going all summer!

Thanks, and will always read, DeeDee

Although Riverdog is the Key!

By jen2themax

10-03-2000, 03:56 AM

quote:Originally posted by czech please:
more on stuff i've posted elsewhere:

there is definitely something going on with Liz. she knows more than she's letting on and that knowledge seems to be making her uncomfortable. remember, no one saw her all summer, and she was conspicuously absent
from or late to every group gathering in "s&b." i thought the scene of her hanging back on the stairs listening while Nasedo talked about killing people is going to be symbolic of other things that happen this season. also wonder why she chose to work for the congresswoman and seemed to plan on keeping it a secret until she ran into Max. clearly she has no loyalty to Whitaker. i almost get the feeling that she's doing some solo undercover work, partly to help the aliens and partly for her own reasons that we'll learn about later. for some
reason, this makes her feel like she has to step back from the group, maybe because she wants all the facts before she let's them in (the return of Liz the Scientist). i don't think she's doing anything "evil," and i *know* she still loves Max, but what is she hiding? i really want to know what she was doing over the summer.

czech please- Love your name! You may be on to something here! Has she found out some 'changes' to herself & is having problems dealing with that besides seeing Max??? I also noticed that now Max just TOUCHING her is bringing on the flashes! Interesting!

By LizParkerfan

10-03-2000, 07:18 AM

Hellow Mythologist.

volleytwin-Exactly what I was thinking. It does seem like its Liz who always steers the pod squad in the right direction.

GraceKel: I'm glad I'm not the only one who nocticed that Isabel did look a little bimbo like, and she never came across to me that way before.

I just want to say what's up with the whole Florida thing. Is there something important in Florida? Why did Liz choose to go to Florida of all places, and why? Remember when Max and Isabel went there when they were kids on vacation, and that's where they made the little circle like symbol in the sand. I'm going to have to think about this one.

In all I really enjoyed the first episode. I forgot the name of the next episode. Well I better go before now.

+ =
conquers all even mind control.
Remember is half

By Roswellrox

10-03-2000, 07:25 AM

Okay, did the fact that Michael and T*** were hanging out together creep anybody else out? The four seemed to be divided into Max and Iz and Michael and T***. Does that strike anyone else as odd. And Liz did seem very different. More confident, more sure of herself, and less intense than she used to be. It was very good to see that she was willing to use her position to help the podsters out still. I don't think we have to worry much about her. I'm pretty sure she'll come around soon!

I dont' know if this qualifies as relevant, but what's up with Iz and the leather!?! It's summer in New Mexico!

Okay, done for now. But that was an interesting Hypothesis that Nasedo could have been helping Liz over the summer with whatever, but I don't think it's likely. Nasedo kept pushing the Max/T*** thing... I would find it hard to believe that he would have anything to do with Liz. He seems to have a distain for her.

Until next time... Roswellrox

P.S. Redhawk~ I'm accumlating questions... I'll email you soon! Thanks for being willing! Later all!

By LizParkerfan

10-03-2000, 07:27 AM

Bumping this thread.

SHIRI APPLEBY

By StephStephSteph

10-03-2000, 07:50 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Liz FIRST have the Flashes by just Max touching her face? It was back when she had the journal entry and she said something along the lines of "I saw how he saw me, how beautiful he thought I was". I think it was just through him touching her face.

But.. I find it bizare that HE didn't know she was having a flash. I mean, typically, I thought, it was Max projecting the flashes onto Liz.. or at least having mutual flashes (HA - I won't even go where this is taking my mind)! But now.. he didn't know.

There's definitely something up with Liz "saving the day" with the University thought. And her being SO strong against Harding when he came to the Crashdown the first time. "Isn't that what has gotten us into trouble in the first place?"

The other thing I was thinking, unfortunately, was about Tess and the Mom-O-Gram. Some of you have speculated that maybe Tess made that happen. I would LOVE for that to be true, but she doesn't have her eyes closed during the Mom-O-Gram. Typically, we've seen that she has to keep her eyes closed to project an image into someone's mind and when her eyes OPEN, it ends. Any thoughts?

By Jasons Angel

10-03-2000, 08:38 AM

Hey Guys!!

I am usually just a lurker (and I thoroughly enjoy this wonderful thread!!) but I just thought I would add my comments/observations about Skin & Bones!!

I agree with all of you who said that there is something up with Liz! She is definitely playing a bigger part in all of this than maybe we know of yet!! Like all of you..I have always felt this way too!

Something I noticed that I thought was quite strange was did anyone find it odd that both Liz & Nasedo were both out of the picture for three months?!? (we know that Liz was supposedly in Florida with her aunt & remember that Max said that they had not heard from Nasedo for three months) Do you guys think that they (Liz & Nasedo) had any contact with one another regarding the situation...also find it odd that Liz goes to work for the congresswoman out of the blue when she gets back...the exact same woman that Nasedo/Pierce has been "diddling" for the past three months?!?! Do you think that maybe this was planned between Liz & Nasedo?!?! (for Liz to work for the congresswoman to get info, etc) I know it sounds kind of far fetched but my mind is working overtime since watching (and re-watching the episode about 20 times!! LOL!!)

I would love to hear what you guys think!

Angela
aka Jason's

By jen2themax

10-03-2000, 08:42 AM

quote:Originally posted by StephStephSteph:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Liz FIRST have the Flashes by just Max touching her face? It was back when she had the journal entry and she said something along the lines of "I saw how he saw me, how beautiful he thought I was". I think it was just through him touching her face.[Quote]

He had both hands on each side of her head and told her to let her mind 'blank out'. He seemed to really have to force the 'connection' back then. This time, he just held her arm.

[quote]
But.. I find it bizare that HE didn't know she was having a flash. I mean, typically, I thought, it was Max projecting the flashes onto Liz.. or at least having mutual flashes (HA - I won't even go where this is taking my mind)! But now.. he didn't know. [quote]

I think he DID know she got that flash! Did you see that little smirk on his face?! Priceless!

[quote]
The other thing I was thinking, unfortunately, was about Tess and the Mom-O-Gram. Some of you have speculated that maybe Tess made that happen. I would LOVE for that to be true, but she doesn't have her eyes closed during the Mom-O-Gram. Typically, we've seen that she has to keep her eyes closed to project an image into someone's mind and when her eyes OPEN, it ends. Any thoughts?

Pierce/Nacedo just left the Pod Chamber when they did the 'orb juggling'. He may have been able to intensify Tess's 'mind warp' when all four of them had their eyes shut while they were focusing on the orbs. Or he shapeshifted into 'the form you see now'!
These are ideas I've had, since I still think something's still not quite 'right' about the Nacedo/Tess thing!

By GraceKel

10-03-2000, 08:50 AM

Jen2theMax I must tell you that same idea crossed my mind more than a few times about Nasedo/Tess it certainly wouldn't surprise me. Even after seeing Skins and Bones, Nasedo still creeps me out on some level.

Pretty reckless of Nasedo to shapeshift in the bathroom, is this the lack of BRAIN CAPACITY being demonstrated here or what?

Did anyone else catch Maria saying "I heard excons are good in bed?" Excuse me Maria weren't you the one freaking out when you thought Liz was going to go for it cuz we don't know what CAN HAPPEN? I know, but Maria doesn't usually take her own advice does she.

By Evid

10-03-2000, 08:59 AM

Hay all you Myth lovers,

Oh be still my heart, Max and Liz are back!!!!

Czech please: I could not believe it when I read your post because I thought exactly the same thing. Liz knows alot more then she is telling.
I think she found out some important news in Florida. She might now know what she needs to do to protect the pod squad, and that might also mean staying away from Max for a little while, a very little while. You could just see her mind working, this reminded me of Liz from the Pilot.

As for the flash, I think it was Max that was having the memories and sent them to Liz as a test. It looked like he was waiting to get a responce and was unsure that the connection would work with just a light touch. But just look at his smile as he walks away, to me it looked like he was saying, "she does still love me and we are still connected." He seemed very proud of himself, and was very pleased that he got the answer that he was looking for. No Max is not giving up on Liz, I'm sure of that now. They have a stonger connection, more then ever before. WOW it's going to get even HOTTER for these to in Roswell.

Evid

By shaiwon72

10-03-2000, 09:14 AM

quote:Originally posted by Jasons Angel:

i agree w/ you. there must be something up w/ that. everyone else was in roswell except for liz and nacedo. they may have met sometime during the summer. i'm wondering if he trully has a distain for liz or it's for show. b/c he really could have taken max out of that house of mirror in m2tm but doesn't and takes liz instead. even some of the snide remarks that nacedo/pierce has said to liz. i don't know.

also... that flash w/ liz and max. initially i thought that max was projecting those images to liz but after i watched it again on my tivo, he had seemed like he didn't know what was going on or what was responsible for that hint of a smile and softening of her face. maybe it's that cumin x (or however you spell it) that is making liz so much more sensitive to the feelings that max feels that she sees the flashes. when max healed her, maybe some of that went into her or when max introduced his feelings to liz in the pilot that the cuminn x was introduced.

what do you think?
~~emjay

By shaiwon72

10-03-2000, 09:22 AM

oh.. also if nacedo had met w/ liz while she was away, maybe he told her, that liz is be the next protector or something. i mean that liz is smart and she "likes science" and may nacedo knows or learned that liz was bright, so maybe he talked liz into helping the podsters. like that whole dialogue w/ max about that physics lab in las cruces. who else would have thought of that other than a science brain. (we finally get to see the old liz during that dialogue and i missed that. i thought we weren't going to see the old liz during the beginning pieces of the show).

just a thought.
~~emjay

By Kaylan

10-03-2000, 10:36 AM

It's funny because I was just onthe spoilers thread (I know bad me) and Llu pointed out something about the Nasedo/Liz thing.

Quote:

She always seemed afraid of Nascedo and last night she looked him right in the eye and told him off. I loved it, but it did looked different from the Liz we are use to.

Llu has a good point. Liz used to be terrified of Nasedo and now all of a sudden she gets in his face. Seems kind of suspicious to me.

Kaylan

By StephStephSteph

10-03-2000, 10:52 AM

I think, in general, Liz seemed a bit changed. Whether it was intention (to portray a deeper meaning of Liz) or not (maybe we're just supposed to assume she's gorwing up) there was a distinct difference between the Liz we saw in Season 1 and the Liz we're being introduced to in Season 2.

I just want to know WHAT it is!

Does anyone have any thoughts on who Max is talking to when he says "You're one of us, aren't you?" !?!? Liz!?!?!

Or.. when Is says "We have to kill him" - WHO!!!??

By jen2themax

10-03-2000, 11:13 AM

quote:Originally posted by shaiwon72:
...maybe it's that cumin x (or however you spell it)

~~emjay

It's spelled Cadmium X, but that's OK! You gave me an idea for dinner tonight- Chili!!!

By jen2themax

10-03-2000, 11:28 AM

quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
Pretty reckless of Nasedo to shapeshift in the bathroom, is this the lack of BRAIN CAPACITY being demonstrated here or what?

GraceKel- !

By Kaylan

10-03-2000, 11:41 AM

quote:Does anyone have any thoughts on who Max is talking to when he says "You're one of us, aren't you?" !?!? Liz!?!?!
Or.. when Is says "We have to kill him" - WHO!!!??

Okay after watching next weeks previews and reading the episode description I'd have to guess that they are talking about the person who buys the museum. I think in the description it says that a mysterious stranger suddenly puchases the museum (or something like that) Unless they are talking about that dingy deputy. Those are my two guesses.

By jen2themax

10-03-2000, 11:43 AM

quote:Originally posted by Kaylan:
It's funny because I was just onthe spoilers thread (I know bad me) and Llu pointed out something about the Nasedo/Liz thing.

Quote:

She always seemed afraid of Nascedo and last night she looked him right in the eye and told him off. I loved it, but it did looked different from the Liz we are use to.

Llu has a good point. Liz used to be terrified of Nasedo and now all of a sudden she gets in his face. Seems kind of suspicious to me.

Kaylan

By StephStephSteph

10-03-2000, 11:50 AM

quote:Originally posted by Kaylan:
Okay after watching next weeks previews and reading the episode description I'd have to guess that they are talking about the person who buys the museum. I think in the description it says that a mysterious stranger suddenly puchases the museum (or something like that) Unless they are talking about that dingy deputy. Those are my two guesses.

Hmmm... I hadn't even heard about this Museum buying thing. I was thinking the Deputy.. or the "dingy deputy"

quote:Originally posted by jen2themax:
Kaylan- I HAD a feeling I'd see this theory pop up over here after seeing it elsewhere. Liz was kidnapped in Florida & replaced with a shapeshifter.

For me, it has a definite Ewwwww factor! I DON'T want to see Max doing his 'groveling' to win his Liz back, only to find out it's a shapeshifter! Stupid, stupid, stupid!

Besides, I'm hoping Max & Liz get in a good, serious kiss soon, so we can rest assured after all the 2 way flashes are done, it is Max & Liz and not some cheesy, quasi-sci-fi trash!!! (I REALLY hope the writers don't even think of something THIS stupid!) IMNSHO!
[/B]

Would some weird quasi-sci-fi Liz be able to have the flashed of those two together? I guess it goes back to HOW was Liz getting the flashes? (Her own "inner stuff", Max projecting them into her mind, or just the connection of these two) I'm going to have to think there's NO way they'd (the writers) would go THAT low! It'd be like Dallas when "Bobby dreamed it all"

By jen2themax

10-03-2000, 11:52 AM

Kaylan- Could be the new waitress who seems to always be eavesdropping, or the geologist, who we don't know anything about.

By jen2themax	10-03-2000, 11:55 AM
StephStephSteph- No, that would be WORSE than when 'Bobby dreamed it all'!

By StephStephSteph

10-03-2000, 11:57 AM

quote:Originally posted by jen2themax:
[b]Kaylan- Could be the new waitress who seems to always be eavesdropping, or the geologist, who we don't know anything about.

[/B]

Except they said "we have to kill him" - HIM being the operative word there

By Tweety

10-03-2000, 12:07 PM

Hey guys! It's funny I watch the episodes over and over and finally come up with something and come here to find out you guys discussed it like 4 threads ago. LOL. Anyway, I haven't seen this discussed much yet. Isn't it funny how Liz gets a flash from Nasedo from just kissing him and Congresswoman Whitaker doesn't even though he's been "diddling" her all summer? To me that is just another arrow pointing at how important Liz really is to the Pod Squad.

By jen2themax

10-03-2000, 12:12 PM

Remember what they did to us last season with the previews/teasers. I'm thinking of when they show Max running like a bat out of hell down the sidewalk with sirens in the background. I just knew the authorities were after him, instead it was a 160 lb Greco-Roman wrestler..it was the 'Blind Date' episode!

By dreamin_away	10-03-2000, 12:26 PM
Liz DID seem different! I really do think she knows more than she's telling. Maybe it's because she doesn't want Nasedo to find out, and with Nasedo gone....

By Melodious1

10-03-2000, 12:49 PM

Hola my fellow Liz Mythologists! My brain is brewing with speculations at the moment and if I don't release them now I'm going to explode... so here I go...

I'm one of the believers that Max did in fact put this CadmiumX in Liz (explaining the silvery, Cadmium handprint on Liz's stomach). I also believe, that possibly thru further exposure to Max, this is how Liz is eventually able to receive any kind of flashes and is 'changing' ("chemically").

For me, this would explain why Liz had no flashes between the Pilot and BD. Liz wasn't *physically* ready to have them yet, until further contact in HW and Balance. Hence, with a very susceptible Max, by BD Liz was able to receive flashes (or draw them out of Max?). CadX itself, as far as I can tell, is a 'side effect' of the alien/podster's powers - a side effect caused by radiation? Perhaps, Max's intense feelings for Liz are inadvertantly triggering his powers (or are allowing her to set them off?), hence Max is changing Liz via the CadX now in her system (CadX as a sort of catalyst for change in her body?). However, if Max IS (inadvertantly) using his powers on Liz and the podsters powers have much to do with 'radiation'... I wander what might happen if Liz got an x-ray or an MRI? Will she get visions from the x-ray technicians or would Liz's feelings be so intense she destroys the machine?

I agree with everyone speculating that there could have been a meeting between Edsedo and Liz sometime during the summer. Explaining her sudden 'interest' in politics. I also thought her confrontation with him S&B was out of character, particularly because of what she mentioned about how murder is what got Nasedo in the big mess in the first place. Was she referring to Atherton's murder? Or some other murder that Nas previed her to? Kind of odd how she'd just pull that out of the blue (or maybe not, perhaps I'm just being paranoid).

I do believe Max knew Liz felt *something* at the end of S&B, but I don't think he caused it or knew what it was she felt exactly. I'm actually *hoping* this is so. If Liz is now receiving spontaneous visions just from a simple touch from Max (and he's not receiving them in return or causing them), then that *must* mean she's changed.

Perhaps Liz was even (unintentionally) experiencing something Max himself was remembering, she *took* the images from him, but he didn't *give* them to her. Unintentionally reading his mind, per se. Which would be an interesting contrast from the very beginning; in the Pilot when Liz was angry believing that Max read her mind to get the cupcake dress vision. Now SHE'S possibly the mind reader!

Something kept swimming thru my mind watching S&B concerning Liz:
quote:from BALANCE
RIVER DOG: She'll find her own path. You take yours.

River Dog's line almost seems like prophecy post-S&B. Liz seemingly is distancing herself from everyone, making her OWN PATH. ...But what's at the end of this path?? I certainly know what I'm hoping for!

Melodious

By Melodious1

10-03-2000, 01:23 PM

I've pondered something kind of insane that I forgot to mention in my last post... It seems to me that four is a highlighted number the start of S&B (and towards the end of Season 1). Many of the new alien symbols had four items: obviously four podsters (officially as of S&B), four circles (symbol), four pods, four boxes (symbol), etc. BTW, did anyone catch the window on Michael's apartment door when M/I went to tell them Pierce's bones were found?. It looked very much like one of the new alien symbols, the four yellow boxes parallel to each other.

However, it seems these Skins/EA have the number five surrounding them. Based solely on the five pie slices on what looks like some sort of alien tracking device. FIVE. Five pie slices for five podsters/persons they're hunting?

Could it be possible the Podians are only looking out for the ROYAL FOUR podsters, but the Skins/EA are actually hunting FIVE? Max, Isabel, Michael, Tess AND Liz?? Could this be because these Skins/EA (thru some inside knowledge and/or clairvoyant abilities?) know MORE then the Podians... they know Liz is ALSO important (possibly the key) in the "destiny" and the Podians don't?

Melodious

By dreamin_away

10-03-2000, 01:53 PM

Melodious1:totally agree with you! I think that although there are four podsters Liz is definetly just as important.
I was thinkin about how Liz was distincing herself from the others. Do you think she knows something that's going to happen, but the only way to protect everyone is to keep it secret? I mean, it would explain why she was staying away from everyone, especially Max. She might be afraid she might accidentaly slip. I don't know, it's just a theory. Please tell me what you think.

shanns(a.k.a dreamin_away)

By Roswellrox

10-03-2000, 02:22 PM

I don't remember who said it above, but about the whole Liz being suddenly interested in polotics... I too thought that was kinda fishy! Maybe she is possitioning herself in a place that she can be helpful in a different way than before. And I totally loved how she looked Nasedo in the eye and gave him a piece of her mind. I'll have to watch it again, but Nasedo seemed to get a kick out of it too!

I don't think Max knew that Liz had a flash, but I think he just liked what he saw when she smiled after he touched her. Anywayz, I'm off for home now to watch again, and find more clues!

Roswellrox

By Melodious1

10-03-2000, 03:45 PM

Don't mind me, just BUMPING :D

By Zero

10-03-2000, 04:00 PM

I only have 10 minutes, but when I tried to post earlier, it wouldn’t! I’m going to ramble now! :D

Loved this episode – though I do have a few complaints. Thought the scenes with Liz and Max were great, and I agree with everyone who thinks Liz is up to something, but not letting on for reasons of her own. Maybe she wants to protect the podsters until she knows more. Whether Liz and Nasedo had any contact during the summer - ?? – But I thought how she stood up to him amazing. She got right in his face when they were talking about what to do! Plus, N was a bit sleazy the way he emphasized how he and the Congresswoman would be busy all night right to Liz! Yuck factor! :p

SO how great was that vision Liz got!! I side with the “Max knew something had happened, but wasn’t sure what” crowd. The fact that she gets such intense flashes from only a touch, and others get nothing, even with diddling – only heightens my belief that Liz is crucial to the protection of both the podsters and all of humanity! YES Grace Kel – together Liz and Max are a FORCE TO RECKON WITH!! Without Liz they would NEVER have known where to find the bones in time! She is always coming to the rescue based on her intelligence and observation abilities! She is my kind of woman!! :D

Mel – I also notice the four squares in Michael’s door – very interesting!

Anal-retentive complaints – Why would a geologist just happen to stumble into the Crashdown and up to Iz’s table to ask where the police dept. was??? Tess needs a fashion consultant, AND to wear a bar!! Iz needs to lose the leather outfits in NM at this time of year. I live in the NW – but she has got to be dying of the heat! I agree that shapeshifting in the bathroom was definitely not a use of all one’s brain cells! Okay – where are the parents??

Favorite line – “You can never find those little pod people when you want them!” – Nasedo

Favorite Non-Liz/Max scene – when Valenti is talking to Michael in the cell, and Michael confesses his concerns.

Okay – I’ve used more than my allotted 10 mins – will post more later! :firehop: (After I rewatch the episode!)

Zero :D

By czech please

10-03-2000, 04:02 PM

more thoughts:

liz v. whitaker-
ok, i just watched s&b again and what i really want to know now is how liz found out about this job with whitaker. i feel pretty sure that it's a set-up...but with a twist. recall that when liz is talking to max about not working at the crashdown she says: "this amazing opportunity came up out of the blue--," and right here is cut off by the congresswoman's arrival. ok people, this is roswell and (now especially), nothing just comes up "out of the blue." i think whitaker knows quite a bit about our lizzie, and is intentionally keeping her close with this job. of course, i also still firmly believe that liz is working an angle of her own. this could make for an interesting "who's using who?" subplot that will also fold into the liz revelations that we all just *know* are coming.

overall, i think the big theme for this season will be "who can you trust?" i can't wait to see how the new, more secret agent-y liz will fit in.

By thescoobygang

10-03-2000, 04:08 PM

Hello all

Just dropping by to see what everyone thought about S&B. There were so many things that happened in the episode but to me there was really only one scene of significance. The Flash. Funny how the writers put all this serious alien/FBI drama in the show and manage to slip in this one brief, subtle scene between Max & Liz as if dropping a hint to only the observant viewer.

To me it looked like Max made no effort to make that flash occur. I believe it was all Liz. A subconsious, unintentional flash. But what does this mean exactly? Why are the flashes becoming easier for her to experience, and not just with Max? I agree with many of you that the Liz Parker in Skin & Bones did seem different from the Liz of last season.

This could very well be the beginning of a bigger revelation to come.

Scooby

By AnonWatcher	10-03-2000, 04:30 PM
Enough Said???

By dreamin_away	10-03-2000, 05:02 PM
AnonWatcher: that pic!!!! Totally agree!

By clarinetkate

10-03-2000, 05:16 PM

I'm back. ::sigh:: And Melody, I am NOT a closet Liz Mythologist.. but once again I have a theory that seems to make Liz important that I thought you all would like. SO.

I believe that congresswoman Whitaker is an evil alien. For a whole list of reasons why check out the sci-fi thread, lol. ANYWAY.. I do believe she WAS getting flashes from Nasedo (she knew he wasn't who he said he was, she even said soemthing of that effect to Valenti) and so she realized that he was an alien and was thus using him to get information. Then of course, when she's done with all his info, she gives him the ax.. literally...

So, my suspicion about the Liz working for her thing isn't why Liz would take the job but why would congresswoman Whitaker OFFER the job to Liz, who I'm sure has good grades and whatnot, but no prior (at least that we know of) experience with politics or offices for that matter, and no interest in politics (her interest clearly lies with science as is once again demonstrated in this ep.). So, how would congresswoman Whitaker even know to offer such a position to Liz? Where did she get Liz's name, etc...

I think she must have realized Liz's significance from Nasedo and that was the impetus behind her hiring Liz. Being that she's an evil alien she hires Liz to either get to the pod squad, keep a watch on the pod squad or prevent Liz from fulfilling some sort of role or whatnot (this is where it's all totally speculative because I'm not sure WHAT Liz's importance is).

So, my theory that Congresswoman Whitaker is an evil alien certainly does seem to cry out yet again that Liz is somehow significant in the podsters lives and survival... she could have hired Alex or Maria or anyone, but she chose Liz... coincidence?

--KATE ( I don't even want to hear it Melody!)

By Starstruck

10-03-2000, 05:18 PM

Well, I seem to be in the minority here. I didn't like the way Liz and Max's initial reunion went. I liked the way they wrote Max but I felt they had Liz being too aloof. He's obviously very excited to see her and I felt like she was greeting him the way you would a casual aquaintence. I mean she LOVES him,and after all they've been through I just don't buy that this is the way she would have greeted him. Just my opinion.

I DID however love the touch with visions!! Now thats more like it!! Did anyoe notice that where Max touched her was the exact same spot he touched her in SH when her arm glowed!! They are definetly connected!!

One of my favorite lines- when Harding welcomes the sheriff to the ever growing I know an alien clubis just not her, but her hair looked great!!!

I miss Isabels sweater twin sets, the sleezy look is just not her, but her hair looked great!!

I like the idea thats been posed that Harding and Liz were working together to protect the gang.

An observation- The lab thay take the skellatol remains to is at the COLEMAN Bldg.. When Liz and Alex get aressted at the Soap Factory party the 4 they are aressted with are Lyons, COLEMAN, Kalinowski and Baker. Is this just coincidence?

I too noticed the 4 square symbol in Michaels apartment door but I also noticed it at the nightime dig sight. They show us a large light with 4 lights and thay let the camera sit there on it for more than just a moment.

I wonder if a test was done on Liz's cells if they would find Cadmium X.

Question- When did Liz take physics. I thought Mr Suligman was their Biology teacher?

How did Max know how to get into the device that held Pierce's bones. Very clever of him to age them. Yeah Max!! They used the same noises when Max was doing this as they did when Michael got his vision of Atherton's dome when he first touched the key.

I loved how Liz got in Hardings face about the killing. Thats my Liz!!!

I couldn't help but notice a similarity between the beeping of the metal detector at the beginning of the show and the beeping of the orb at the beginning of SH.

Did it fell to anyone else when Liz and Max were going through things at the Congresswomans office like someone or something was watching them?

Evid -LOL- I loved what you wrote to GraceKel about preperations for the big event, ironicly you described my house!!

Starstruck
:max: :liz:

By Qfanny

10-03-2000, 06:16 PM

Honestly, at 6:00 pm last night there were just about 5 pages to this thread, now there is 7 3/4. Gee!

I agree with everyone that pointed out that Liz "solved" Max's problem again! That second in command theory is looking better and better!

I like reading the speculation about Liz hooking up with Nasedo, but I really can't sign up for that service. First, Liz does not like Nasedo. When they thought Tess was Nasedo, she told Max, "She scares me." Later, Nasedo shifted into Max and kidnapped her, was basically rude to her, suggested that he might kill her or let her die, and then Max turned to Nasedo for answers.

GraceKel, I remember our good/bad discussion. There is a good side, and there is a bad side. I think Liz is the only one that sees anything clearly right now. She still understands that there are limits to what the podsters should do... Liz proved her worth in the few meager scenes she had in S&B!

Now for a FUN observation: When Piercedo walks into the Crashdown and the tourist stop hims, it looks like Pierce was thinking about giving him the silver iron-on to get him out of his way.

Not so fun observation: When Nasedo/Harding tells company that he intends to kill all humans that knows about CamdemX, he doesn't respond to Alex's question. "I hope present company is excluded."

By HyperKitN

10-03-2000, 06:43 PM

Hey guys thanx for the Birthday shout out.

Loved the premiere. The are keeping me in suspense for next week.

Will have to come back and catch up. Just wanted to say thanx. Starstuck tell your mom happy belated b-day to her too.

By Qfanny

10-03-2000, 06:55 PM

About the Flash:

Do we think Max had the flash or did Liz?
I side with Liz.

Did Max intend to give her a flash?
I think that Max intended to help Liz pretend things were back as they were. I don't think he thought, "Gee, let me see, I'll show her that make out season in Michael's apartment." I just think he wanted to touch her, to remind her things were once different. The flash came from Max (reverse connection) but Max's emotions are so high and Liz so used to Max that the connection started up effortlessly and only Liz seemed to be aware of it.

If Liz got a vision, why did Max not? Can Liz control what Max sees by closing herself off?

By Zero

10-03-2000, 07:13 PM

Hi all !

Kate - you have to come back again! I like your ideas. I don't know about Whitiker (sp?) being an alien, but I do think there is something in her past that makes her so interested in aliens - maybe an abduction, family member killed, etc.? I'm curious to see how the writers develop her.

Here is where I think Nasedo and Liz are connected. I think HE was the one who set up Liz's "great opportunity" - possibly without her knowing. Nasedo has the "in" - literally - to influence Whitiker, or to know about a potential opening. I think Nasedo KNEW that an opening was available and felt Liz would be the best person to fill it, so made it "fall into her lap." He knows something about her, and maybe is impressed by her ability to stand up to him even though he could kill her instantly. He also has said that he is impressed by the human brain - and is probably impressed by her use of her brain. So, Liz may have been hooked up with Nasedo and not even known it!

Too bad Nasedo got killed off so soon! I liked Pierce/Nasedo - in a bad guy sort of way - and he had so much information to give to the "little pod people"! I can't believe that they would still be in sooooo much of the dark about themselves, etc.

As far as Liz being different. I think she is wary of getting close to Max because she does love him sooo much, but feels that her getting to close to him would put a monkey wrench in his duty to his people. She may also feel she has to be "separate" from the group to do the "research" most of us seem convinced she is doing. Maybe she feels working in the congressional office will give her access to information that a 16-year-old wouldn't otherwise have access to. Though with Liz's brain - combined with Alex's talents - they could hack into a lot of sensitive data over the internet (not that I'm advocating this - but this is Roswell).

I'm sure I have lots of other stuff to say, but I'm out of time!

See you all - and WELCOME all the new posters!!

Zero :D

By GraceKel

10-03-2000, 07:17 PM

Hi GUYS been reading all your posts and some very interesting ideas abound as always, but there are so many of you I can't keep them all straight.

Was it Czeck who mention Liz saying this opportunity came up OUT OF THE BLUE---didn't we hear the sheriff saying that in Crazy about the crazies showing up OUT OF THE BLUE filling our heads with all kinds of stuff blah blah, when Topolsky came to warn them? Hmmmmm? I certainly thought that was a clue.

Starstruck I also laughed when Mr Harding said oh welcome to the ever vergioning I know an alien club-----very funny I thought.
But like QFANNY said I too noticed no response about Alex's comments present company excluded I hope. Yes I still think Mr Harding gives me the CREEPS. And what bugs me to no end is how they never addressed the idea that Nasedo/Harding kidnapped Liz the girl Max loves the most and he never even called him on it, they all just fell in line with this Destiny crap. Well on some level I think Max is fighting it but I just don't like how that was never addressed.

All these mentions of Florida, Max and Isabel vacationing in Florida, Liz going to Florida, did anyone notice that in the PILOT eppy that Larry's vest said EVERGLADES that is in FLorida right? I also notice that Larrys t shirt says DANGER on the front however only DAN shows through on it----and Pierce's first name is DAN? Isn't that right? Shapeshifter isn't the name DAN in the ROCKY ROCOON song?

Starstruck very good catch about the COLEMAN building and all those names from the old soap factory.

Also the mention of the CHEESE FACTORY again. The funny looking guy whose dream job was to work at the VIDEO STORE but he thought he would end up at the CHEESE FACTORY--also wears METALLICA on his jacket in the back and now we have GRANT, Milton with METAL DETECTORS?

At first glance at Deputy Hansen I kept thinking he is so GUNG HO more than usual but then I remembered that last year the SHERIFF was all gung ho having everything checked when he wasn't in the know so I guess it isn't really unusual that he would be expecting the SHERIFF to do a THOROUGH investigation still.

As far as Liz getting the flash I think Max realized that Liz was reacting to something but he really didn't consciously send her that-that was just what was in his soul at the time-and Liz saw it---very dreamy.
Starstruck I know what you are saying about the initial reunion between Max and Liz which I thought was beautifully acted, but I think the writers didn't give Liz much to say on purpose to sort of keep us in the dark a little about what Liz is feeling and thinking---of course we all know she still loves him so who is kidding who here but.....

Well that is all for now, I am sure I will have more thoughts later and come back.

By GraceKel	10-03-2000, 07:23 PM
Oh one more thing I forgot, when they were talking about the geologist in Michaels apt when he was busting rocks with Tess, the sign in Michaels apt RESERVED PARKING is blocked to only read SERVED KING----are they telling us that GRANT the geologist SERVED MAX---is he a GOOD GUY? I don't know but it is there LOL.

By Melodious1

10-03-2000, 08:42 PM

quote:Originally posted by dreamin_away:
Do you think she knows something that's going to happen, but the only way to protect everyone is to keep it secret?... Please tell me what you think.

Hey Shanns! As for Liz possibly distancing herself because she might know something, I kind of find this unlikely. Not totally ruling it out (I still think there's a slim chance she and Harding had a little "for the good of the Royal Four" discussion over the summer). Although, I think if she knew anything that might help the podsters (Max), she'd tell them (him) w/out hesitation. I think she's just *distancing* herself mostly to keep away from Max (aka temptation), the brunt of the big alien mess (of course, she'll never really get out of that) and memories. She mentioned in S&B about wanting "a fresh start"... apparently, a *very* fresh start. There wasn't a single scene with all our token humans together. The once inseparable Liz, Maria & Alex. I guess running from / dealing with the Feds (and now Skins apparently) while dealing with your intense feelings for your alien-human hybrid quasi-lovers can put a strain on friendships. It's a sad thing. However, Liz's distancing herself only makes me remember River Dog's line from BALANCE again ("She'll find her own path"). I just hope that path isn't too bumpy and - of course - leads back to Max.

quote:Originally posted by clarinetkate:
I'm back. ::sigh:: And Melody, I am NOT a closet Liz Mythologist.. but once again I have a theory that seems to make Liz important that I thought you all would like. SO.

You know I'm never letting up on you until you make this thread a regular stop! Your theories are just too good to deny them from the Liz Mythologists Kate!

AnonWatcher: Great Polarist pic! That's one of my fave UCs. Despite my utter Dreaminess, I like to explore other possibilites.

Melodious

By shapeshifter

10-03-2000, 08:43 PM

quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
Shapeshifter isn't the name DAN in the ROCKY ROCOON song?
From http://www.radiowavenet.com/beatles/bea/lyr-70ro.htm :
quote:Now somewhere in the black mountain hills of Dakota
There lived a young boy named Rocky Raccoon
And one day his woman ran off with another guy
Hit young Rocky in the eye
Rocky didn't like that
He said I'm gonna get that boy
So one day he walked into town
Booked himself a room in the local saloon.
Rocky Raccoon checked into his room
Only to find Gideon's Bible
Rocky had come equipped with a gun
To shoot off the legs of his rival
His rival it seems had broken his dreams
By stealing the girl of his fancy.
Her name was Magil and she called herself Lil
But everyone knew her as Nancy.
Now she and her man who called himself Dan
Were in the next room at the hoe down
Rocky burst in and grinning a grin
He said Danny boy this is a showdown
But Daniel was hot-he drew first and shot
And Rocky collapsed in the corner.
Now the doctor came in stinking of gin
And proceeded to lie on the table
He said Rocky you met your match
And Rocky said, Doc it's only a scratch
And I'll be better I'll be better doc as soon as I am able.
Now Rocky Raccoon he fell back in his room
Only to find Gideon's Bible
Gideon checked out and he left it no doubt
To help with good Rocky's revival.

Gracekel, Reading the above has me thinking of Piercedo and Whitaker...
Infinited metaphors.
So did the real Pierce start the relationship and Nasedo just slip into place like he did with Liz, or did Nasedo take it to the next level? And (children, close your eyes here), didling doesn't necessarily imply consumation.

BTW, when I was rewinding the tape last night my VCR made a groaning noise at the end. I yelled, "oh no! I've GraceKelled my VCR to death!" to which my daughter replied "What was that word you used?"

By Syndee

10-03-2000, 08:57 PM

I haven't posted here in ages but I lurk every day.

In the scene when Max and Liz are talking and the congresswomen walks up and Max realizes who the congresswomen is he kind of tilts his head and looks at Liz questionably as thought to say "What are you up to."

If anyone knows Liz, its Max, and he knows that Liz would never betray the podsters so why is she working for someone who is so clearly after them.

Maybe Liz feels that if she can't be by Max's side because of his Destiny that she will stay in the background and continue to help him - now that's love.

Syndee

By Melodious1

10-03-2000, 09:20 PM

quote:Originally posted by Zero:
Too bad Nasedo got killed off so soon! I liked Pierce/Nasedo - in a bad guy sort of way - and he had so much information to give to the "little pod people"! I can't believe that they would still be in sooooo much of the dark about themselves, etc.

Zero :D

This is why TicTac needs to hurry up and hike back from where ever he disappeared to after "Crazy"! There was definite desperation and fear in Max's voice catching the bloodied Nasedo as he fell through his window, JB delivered that scene excellently ( ::trying not to be biased due to the shirtless factor...it's hard:: ). All in that delivery I felt, "God... if he dies, what am I going to do?!" TicTac NEEDS to resurface!

Where the h*ll did TicTac go anyway? I'm a firm believer in the 2 shapeshifter theory. I'm waiting for some guy to stroll into Crashdown, Valenti's or Whitaker's office shaking a pill box around. "I heard you all need a new shapeshifting protector..."

Melodious

By czech please

10-03-2000, 11:30 PM

ok, so this hasn't come up on this thread in awhile, but i feel obliged to address the "liz is 1/2 alien theory" here. in a word? no. no no no no no! while i do buy that liz might be "more human than human," (advanced evolutionary development, affected by cadmium x--whatever) yet another viewing of s&b has convinced me that her humanity is exactly what will make her the key to this season.

nasedo, who according to tess in season 1, "doesn't have a human side" very clearly represents the alien,stay-with-your-own-kind-to-anything-to-
survive point of view, which is very obvious in the s&b crashdown scene. it's liz who gets right up in his face and questions his tactics, but it's max who makes the final decision. notice the reactions of the group when he gives his first order to nasedo it seems obvious that the dynamic is changing.

here's where i wax symbolic: when nasedo responds to max's order ("as you wish"), notice the way the shot is framed, w/ a slightly out of focus liz watching from over nasedo's shoulder. something about this specific moment struck me as very intense, and i think that was the point. my interpretation?: the first of many choices max and the gang will have to make between humanity and alien-ness. we see it again when nasedo and max are in the alley taking destiny. this scene has the same basic structure: nasedo tells max to do/believe something, max resists, and nasedo again defers to his leader ("you're the boss.")as the scene ends max is left standing alone in front of the crashdown, which is another big symbol of liz and his human life. she is the anti-nasedo!

max is THE leader now, but which side of his nature will he lead with? one road leads to his alien destiny (tess) and the other to his human desire (liz). that's another reason i like the idea of a liz/nasedo alliance so much, because it would represent the two aspects of the pod squad working towards the same purpose, with very different methods. the question is, who wins in the end.

whew, that was longer tha i'd planned to rant. sorry, y'all!

czech please
****************************************** "It's not like he's Ward Cleaver when he's here." -Tess on Nasedo, "skin and bones"

By RozRules

10-03-2000, 11:59 PM

Ok, this is a totally random and out there thought, but hey, I've heard weirder here.^_^

What if in their past life Liz was on the side of the 'bad aliens' or whatever and Max was on the good side. But they end up falling in love a-la Romeo and Juliet(Montegues vs. Capulets) but in this case, one alien species vs. another. This could explain why their relationship is 'forbidden'

thats about as far as I have gotten into this theory so far, I don't even know how much sense it makes, but if anyone thinks there is anything to it, feel free to add

By RozRules

10-04-2000, 12:02 AM

<<Where the h*ll did TicTac go anyway? I'm a firm believer in the 2 shapeshifter theory. I'm waiting for some guy to stroll into Crashdown, Valenti's or Whitaker's office shaking a pill box around. "I heard you all need a new shapeshifting protector...">>

I totally agree with you on that one. I mean as soon as Ed Harding showed up he doesn't pop a single freaking tic tac! Whats up with that?

By LizParkerfan

10-04-2000, 05:20 AM

I'm sorry I'm still sticking to the theory that Liz is half alien, which she probably got from her decendents.

I do think it is funny that both Liz and Harding left at the same time, and then they possible both came back at the same time. Very suspicious, I'll have to luck into this.

Remember is half

By StephStephSteph

10-04-2000, 06:05 AM

I wonder where Liz was for the "couple days" that she had been back but Max hadn't seen her. I mean, Roswell's not THAT big of a town - was she tucked away in some Pod Chamber thinking about her summer with Nacedo? Or thinking about what to do next? Hmm.. or did they simply have her in the attic of the Crashdown?

And.. did Maria ACTUALLY see Liz during those couple days.. did anyone else? Did Maria have close contact with her over the summer - I mean, they ARE best friends!? Things that make you go hmmm...

By shapeshifter

10-04-2000, 08:09 AM

quote:Originally posted by Melodious1:
...I'm a firm believer in the 2 shapeshifter theory. I'm waiting for some guy to stroll into Crashdown, Valenti's or Whitaker's office shaking a pill box around. "I heard you all need a new shapeshifting protector..."

Okay, now I can face another day. Thanks Melodious.

And y'all might have given up on the Archive site at http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell , but as soon as I finish recovering from computer reformat, the flu, and my second daughter's first car accident, I will be back at Maxcedo's side uploading all the wonderful theories that have been sent...unless I defect to Piercedo's camp.

By Druscilla831

10-04-2000, 08:14 AM

Humans in the Court of the "Royal Four"!!
It seems to bother Nasedo less and less.I think he felt that it was really starting to sink in with Max that he has to find it with in himself to start making the decisions. Max knows he has to be careful and if you ask me he is better at it then Nasedo. Max makes level headed decisions because of this respect for humanity, maybe that is why they were sent here in the first place. So that while being raised there would be a human influence that would not only enhance there personalities but their hybridization would keep them safe enough to exist long enough to really grow into who they were before.
either that or we had the largest population to hide in so that is why they chose earth.

Also I am a firm believer that Tess isn't truthful about what she knows. It was made quite obvious on several occasions that Nasedo felt no more of a kinship with Tess then he did with the other podsters. I think
she was married to Max but that it was a political wedding, an upper escheleon merging marriage to make the royal family stronger.
Although they feel more like really good friends now it is no stretch to believe that Micheal and Isabel could have loved each other. Max and Tess, now that is stretch.
Except for the "got to protect my own kind" feeling he has for her, Max feels nothing for her. He can't go a minute without thinking how much he loves Liz, how could a love deep enough for him to make her his wife decipate to nothing. You don't forget it. With Michael and Isabel, they both felt
jarred by the feeling of sexual attraction to each other but the concept of loving each other isn't, you will excuse the expression, alien to them. It might be the fact that they did have time to get to know each other and Max and Tess haven't but there is just that feeling that if he really loved her it would have been something he wouldn't have forgotten.Supposedly their essence was recombinated with human Dna. Now they were supposedly supposed to be like the person they were before.Humanity can only influence you so much, part of who you are is inate.
The nature vs.nuture issue here takes on a whole different meeting. If Max was half as sensitive on his home planet as he is here there is no doubt in my mind he would not have forgotten loving Tess. Even an Alien can have a loveless marriage.

Rivah

By Roswellrox

10-04-2000, 08:43 AM

Just watched S&B again last night, and I noticed some of the same things you all did...
I don't remember who said it, but Michael's apartment did look different. I remember it opening into a hallway before too, and Where did that bedroom come from? lol (just thinking of the X-files no bedroom thing.)

Did anyone notice that Alex was wearing his button up with the top button undone? Remember how Iz would always unbutton his top button? hmm... she's rubbing off on him!

GraceKel~ interesting thought about the "Served King", but couldn't that have been referring to Michael?

Qfanny~ I noticed Nacedo's almost giving that guy the "silver iron-on" (great name for it by the way! I'm gonna use it from now on!)

Zero~ I like the idea of Nasedo setting up the opportunity for Liz without her knowing it, better than the Nasedo and Liz had a talk and planning session idea. Nasedo has no regard for humans at all... While I think he does have some kind of respect for Liz's guts and ability, I still don't think he likes her enough to let her in on his idea.

Something else I thought was weird, if Whitakerhad been in contact with Pierce early on in his investigation, then wouldn't she already know who Liz and Max were? So maybe it was Whitaker who came up with the whole plan for Liz herself...

Somebody mentioned this on a different thread, but doesn't it seem weird that a big chemical corporation would only send one guy out to do a geological survey? Wouldn't there be a team of geologists...

Chech Please~ (love your name by the way!) I loved the scene you mentioned with Max and Liz and Nasedo! It gave me a sense that Max was still going to do everything he could to remain as human as possible. It also was a great indicator that they really do look to him as THE leader. Excelent observation!

Welp, gotta go!

Roswellrox

By Zero

10-04-2000, 09:45 AM

No one has mentioned this here yet - but what about the comment by Maria about "I hope they used birth control" or something to that effect. It raises that issue of can alien/human couplings result in offspring? What if Whitaker ends up preggers? Could this have been what happened to Sheila Hubble? Could one of our friendly humans (Liz) be the result of one of these matings? Just thought it was interesting that it was thrown out there.

I'm also waiting for Tic Tac to show up. Also - did anyone notice the song playing when Pierce/Nasedo enters the Crashdown? That new song "Cripnonite" (sp?) about Superman by "3rd Door Down" (I think). Very interesting choice given his early demise!

And why didn't Nasedo warn the podsters about the skins beforehand?? Can hardly wait to see one "peel."

Zero :D

By dreamin_away	10-04-2000, 10:45 AM
Hey! Just got another idea: Maybe Nasedo, while "diddling", earned a new perspective about humans? Maybe that's why he didn't seemed so bothered by them in S&B. I know it's very unlikely, but ya never know

By Melodious1

10-04-2000, 11:21 AM

I think this is going to be my 1-0-0. I'm glad it's in the Liz Mythologist thread.

quote:Originally posted by shapeshifter:
Okay, now I can face another day. Thanks Melodious.

Glad to have been of service Shapeshifter

quote:Originally posted by Zero:
No one has mentioned this here yet - but what about the comment by Maria about "I hope they used birth control" or something to that effect. It raises that issue of can alien/human couplings result in offspring? What if Whitaker ends up preggers? Could this have been what happened to Sheila Hubble? Could one of our friendly humans (Liz) be the result of one of these matings? Just thought it was interesting that it was thrown out there.

I actually had that rather disturbing thought last night Zero, but I hesitated bringing it up in here or the Sci Fi thread. Hesitated because it seems to have been very advertised how *different* Edsedo is from humans *and* the podsters physiologically. However, I suppose I must keep in mind this is sci-fi we're dealing with (and it's not like Roswell has been all that consistent with the *believable*, ex/Max in the cyclotron)... so perhaps Whitaker just might have a little Piercedo in the oven (yikes) and Sheila might have also been preggers thru similar (the same?) circumstances (by Edsedo?? However, I'm under the impression Whitaker was his first human "diddling". Of course, I could be wrong).

There is also speculation that Whitaker herself might be a Skin/EA... if THIS is true. Could Whitaker be pregnant with a Podian/Skin baby? If she is an EA, however, I doubt she would have let herself get pregnant in the first place or abort.

I'm inclined to believe Liz is all human, but of course we don't know what might happen if a Podian or EA 'procreates' with a human (with Nancy Parker?)... if it's at all possible. Or maybe Liz WAS a product of an alien tryst but possibly this alien *changed* Liz to make her ALL human (or at least appear that way). A procedure possibly similar to Max changing Pierce's bones. A wave of an alien hand and suddenly Liz has human blood cells (didn't escape little Max's clever eye though, did it? ).

Although this leads me to another startling speculation... If Liz is somehow the product of an / human tryst... could Edsedo have been that alien? Could Edsedo be Liz's actual father?? ::gasp:: "Liz... I am your father." "NOOOOOO!!!"

Melodious

By StephStephSteph	10-04-2000, 11:31 AM
Adding on to this Edsedo procreacting theory, we have no clue how these aliens reproduce. For that matter, Edsedo isn't even LIKE the other Pod Squad, so who knows.. maybe he simply "beams" it into the one he wants. Maybe that's what he did with Sheila Hubble and why he killed her husband? Just a thought.. my mind's working in overdrive

By rocklowery

10-04-2000, 12:33 PM

quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:

All these mentions of Florida, Max and Isabel vacationing in Florida, Liz going to Florida, did anyone notice that in the PILOT eppy that Larry's vest said EVERGLADES that is in FLorida right? I also notice that Larrys t
shirt says DANGER on the front however only DAN shows through on it----and Pierce's first name is DAN? Isn't that right? Shapeshifter isn't the name DAN in the ROCKY ROCOON song?

Well that is all for now, I am sure I will have more thoughts later and come back.

Hi everyone, sorry I haven't been posting, family duties and all...

A few quick observations before I get to work:

Florida: One other thing that Florida is known for is NASA's presence
there. Could this also be significant?

Hansen: Was it just me or was his reaction to Grant's observation about the
metal detector picking up the bones a bit out of place. Why did that
observation give him the shivers? There could've been a very logical
explanation such as metal pins used to join a broken bone or shrapnel from
an old war wound. He also didn't get over enthusiastic until after this
observation was made.

The flashes: It seems to me that Max knew or at least suspected that Liz
got a flash, but because her previous flashes involved kissing, he may not
be sure. If it is becoming easier for Liz to get the flashes it would
certainly save her the embarrassment of kissing all suspected aliens. LOL

Well, back to my "romantic" job, as Grant so succinctly put it! (BTW I like
the Grant character, I thinks he's one of the white hats)

By Zero

10-04-2000, 12:47 PM

Rock - Welcome back - missed you!!

I'm hoping that Grant is a good guy, too! Though what do you think of the issue raised by someone about a company sending a single person to do a site review? I've done site reviews in my profession, and I'm always out there with at least one other person.

I also have to agree that Deputy Hansen's reaction to the skeleton seemed forced/artificial. I also thought about the "pin" prospect - or just other metal that might be on a person. I would think a geologist would think about this too. AND this raises the question - why would he be out there with a metal detector? Okay - got to work (or each lunch)!

Zero :D (my smile doesn't seem to be working )

By rocklowery

10-04-2000, 12:53 PM

Although it may be a little suspicious to only have one geologist out there doing the survey, he could be doing the initial work and a crew would come out later to do core sampling. I think it's more common to have at least two people on a survey although I've done site surveys alone before. It could also be that his partner just wasn't in town yet or the writers just goofed. I'm not putting much into him being there alone, afterall Max confirmed that he was hired to do the survey when he was talking to Isabel.

By redhawk

10-04-2000, 03:09 PM

Hi there!

So very many thoughts!

About Liz acting different: I'm thinking that Liz is just growing up and she had the space of 3 months to really think about the past year (and what a year it was!). I know, I know, just not as interesting as some of the other theories.

Cadmium is a toxic element. So I'm hoping it is only transferred with the use of great power i.e. death. Otherwise our lovely Liz may be dieing a slow death with all this alien exposure (and what exposure it is ).

Aha... Melodious, fascinating theory about the skins hunting 5.

I don't think Max knew Liz had a flash. I think he was smiling because she smiled after his touch. ...Like maybe his talking to her was finally getting through.

Was anyone else wishing Liz's arm glowed like in SH from Max's touch?

I do believe it was an actual flash rather than just a memory because it starts with the stars scene. But this brings us back to the question "where are the flashes coming from?" Are they from Liz, from Max, or from somewhere else? And, of course, this leads to the question we all want an answer to: Why is Liz the only human getting flashes? Either way, I was sooo excited when she got that flash! Ooo baby!

I also noticed the glowing 4 square window in Michael's door. Why add that now? Hmm.

Just a little annoyance here that's OT: Since when do NM citizens (Isabel) wear black leather outfits in the middle of the day in August, September, or October. It is still HOT here in Colorado except at night! And it has been in the 90's and 100's in NM. ugh. Isabel is beautiful with out showing cleavage and leather.

Okay, one more annoyance, Are they ever going to show the parents? There was no explanation about how they dealt with the kids being gone for two days last May!

I just love it when Liz figures out the answers to their problems. That whole dialogue about Las Cruzes was SO Liz.

Pierce and Whitaker - Ewwwww!
So Zero, you were right all along about nasedo being "horny" in M2M. Ick!

shapeshifter - I hope your daughter is doing all right.

Okay, that was long! What's funny is I just spewed a whole long list of ideas on the SciFi thread and I don't think I repeated myself. Roswell makes my brain spin.

By dreamin_away	10-04-2000, 03:15 PM
Do ya think Grant and Courtney could be connected? I mean, they both just showed up out of nowhere. Kinda suspiscious if you ask me. If they're connected, I'm not sure if they would be good or bad.

By czech please

10-04-2000, 03:36 PM

as i was drifting off to sleep last night this one pop into my head:

DID NASEDO SHOOT LIZ???

ok, so let's go back to last fall at the crashdown and the two shady customers. if, as some people have said, onw of them said "you have to get rid of her," i could easily believe that was Nasedo speaking, possibly to another shapeshifter with a different perspective (tic-tac). after the shooting, they seem to take off, but really shift into other people and hang around in time to see max heal liz.

maybe nasedo has long known that liz would be an obstacle to the royal four's destiny and decided to eliminate her in a "human" way, since the Sheila Hubble thing brought way too much attention. but the healing screwed everything up because it has altered her physically (cadmium x?) and now killing her is not an option (those pesky questions again). check out what the deputy says to valenti about the shooting:"Sheriff, the suspects ran out just after the incident occurred. Couple of outsiders. No apparent robbery, no injuries other than the girl that fell. Just seems like an argument that got outta hand." Yeah, seems like.

so now let's fast forward to "max 2 the max" and liz's kidnapping. nasedo tips his hand a lot in this ep. he tells liz that all he cares about is protecting the pod squad, that max and tess are destined for each other, and that pierce would be interested in studying her because of the healing. so obviously nasedo has known about the destiny all along, and it makes sense that he would also know about anything/anyone that threatened that. but how did he know about the healing? maybe he was there.

if nasedo shot liz, this gives her question in "s&b" (isn't killing people what got you in trouble to begin with?") even more significance, since it was her shooting/healing that really started the trouble for the pod squad. i really think that there's more all the weird liz/nasedo interactions we've seen, starting with the loopy dinner at the harding house in "tess,lies and videotape."

ok. that's all for now. your thoughts?

By Starstruck

10-04-2000, 03:37 PM

Zero, I like what you said about Nescedo setting up the oppportunity for Liz, someone had to do it so why not Nescedo/Pierce?Liz seems different around him, not fearful anymore. Maybe it was the time away or maybe they had a conversation about how she could still help Max without being with him. (even though in my version of the story they DO end up together.)

Rocklowery- Nice to see you back! I thought of you when they introduced us to Grant. I thought Rocklowery will let us know if there's anything fishy going on here. I was thinking of NASA in Florida also. Cape Canaveral in Florida is where they launch rockets and spaceshuttles from, this could be important in the future.

I noticed Isabel's reaction to meeting Grant was much the same way she greeted tess, like she had to let him in.

Starstruck
:max: :liz: (I hope these work this time)

By dreamin_away

10-04-2000, 03:48 PM

czech please: Couldn't agree more! It would make total sense if Nasedo shot Liz. But, as always, for every answer that brings up more questions...

And remember:
MAX AND LIZ FOREVER!!!

By Palomino

10-04-2000, 03:58 PM

Hi, Rock :
Professional question: Why would he be using a metal detector is he was looking for radiation?

This episode was plagued by BAD science. I won't even get into it. Very irritating. Reggie is going to post later this evening (probably on a new thread) on the science mistakes, and I will probably add my two cents.

I thought Ron Moore was supposed to help with this stuff. It was worse than ever. I was sadly reminded of the old Lou Gossett program ... something about Matthew Star. Gossett was the guardian of a teenalien prince whose parents sent him to Earth to hide him from their enemies who were trying to kill him. Hokey, badly done, Saturday morning stuff. Is Roswell turning into a remake?

By Melodious1

10-04-2000, 04:10 PM

quote:Originally posted by redhawk:
I also noticed the glowing 4 square window in Michael's door. Why add that now? Hmm.

Hey redhawk! I'm very glad you brought up the 4 square symbol on Michael's door...
wasn't there a screencap you made of a very similar symbol in the Season 2 promo? One of the symbols that morphed into the title? I hope you know what I'm talking about because I was wondering if you could repost it? I swear I saw an identical symbol in the promo!

Melodious

By HyperKitN

10-04-2000, 04:48 PM

Wow you guys are getting busy. I had to briefly scan everything.

I agree w/what some of you are saying about Liz maybe finding out something in Florida. Maybe her aunt had some more of GC stuff and she went through some of it. And it did seem fishy that the job interview just came out of nowhere. Could Nasedo and Liz have been working together all summer or maybe her and Valenti. Looks like some secret detective work might have been going on. She seemed ready and able on S & B.

I thought that the Deputy "Dewy" was a little too earger beaver this past eppy also. Wasn't his face one of the ones in the promo about familiar faces. He seemed to keep ambushing Valenti into his decisions.

I liked Maria w/Max that was funny, "girlfriend", hehehe. But I felt bad for her and Alex to. Isabel looked a little to into Grant.

It did look like Nasedo did learn a thing or to about humans over Summer "studies".

I realized after this eppy I am going to miss Pierce. Didn't he look cute.

By Qfanny

10-04-2000, 05:10 PM

quote:Originally posted by shapeshifter:
BTW, when I was rewinding the tape last night my VCR made a groaning noise at the end. I yelled, "oh no! I've GraceKelled my VCR to death!" to which my daughter replied "What was that word you used?"

Shapeshifter, I've caught myself using that term too! I think it's official, we must add GraceKel to the Roswell dictionary:

GraceKel: 1)(n)Admired FF poster 2)(v) What happens when your VCR goes kaputt after watching and rewatching Roswell!

By Zero

10-04-2000, 06:14 PM

Just Bumping!

Zero :D

By NoDakLurker

10-04-2000, 06:56 PM

I've been lurking since the first thread and I'm still amazed by these all of the different theories.

Not sure of my own theory but do agree that Liz is very important to not only the pod squad but to the continuing storyline being developed.

As someone else posted, it's nice to see Liz be aggresive and not take any gruff from Nasado.

Keep up the good work.

NoDak

By Qfanny

10-04-2000, 07:10 PM

quote:Originally posted by Palomino:
[b] Hi, Rock :
Professional question: Why would he be using a metal detector is he was looking for radiation?

Vibes Palomino: I just posted something similiar over on the SF thread. The show was called, "The Powers of Matthew Star" and it was cheesy. I even thought so as an 8 year old. I ran opposite Dallas on Friday nights. (Why I remember stuff like this I'll never know.) I hardly ever saw it because my Mom wanted to know who shot JR.

By HyperKitN

10-04-2000, 07:17 PM

QF-that was pretty funny.

Well what else do I have to say? What was your reaction to Max not being able to save Nasedo? I am just curious, since they were able to save him last season. WAs this because he was killed my our puny human weapons so was able to be brought back. Or do the aliens have 2 lives as opposed to 9 :D? Or could it have been that Max was so scared by this turn of events and what it could mean that he could not concentrate enough to heal him?

I was also wondering about the skins. It seems as though w/out human skin they are sorta invisible or something. Neither Michael or Nasedo were able to see them though they looked like they were very close. Through there eyes it looked like some kind of thermal thing going on.

I did scim most of the last 3 pages so if any comments on this have already been made forgive me. I was just curious.

Wow! I wish I had something more intuitive to add to all the great things said thus far.

By Qfanny

10-04-2000, 07:33 PM

quote:Originally posted by HyperKitN:
QF-that was pretty funny.

I did scim most of the last 3 pages so if any comments on this have already been made forgive me. I was just curious.

Wow! I wish I had something more intuitive to add to all the great things said thus far.
What if they were phase shifters? I think that would explain their blurry vision. Honestly, I am sort of clueless when it comes to the nature of evil aliens.

Max not being able to heal Nasedo: I think because Nasedo has a shapeshifting body, Max's powers can't really do anything to him. It's an entirely different biology, (nothing like it appears on Earth), also when he healed Nasedo last season, he had help from the stones. Who knows???? Read this scene and let me know what you think...

I just post this over on SF, but I think it may fit better here... LIz is around after all. I wonder if she overheard.

Read this scene:
PIERCE: I needed to see you.
WHITAKER: Well, you should have thought of that before you publicly humiliated me on tv.

PIERCE: Don't let politics come between us.

WHITAKER: Politics is the reason you slept with me to begin with.

PIERCE: Well, maybe at first. It's more than that now. You showed me a side of myself...I didn't know existed.
________________________
I think there is a double meaning here!!!!

any thoughts?

By GraceKel

10-04-2000, 08:04 PM

QFANNY come on now I am not the only one who slow mos-I've got you all doing it LOL and how long is a vcr suppose to last anyway LOL?

Czech Please I have thought of Nasedo shooting Liz and thrown that around in my mind many times. I think its certainly a possibility, that man still creeps me out.

Hey Rocklowery nice to see you back posting we have missed you, I didn't think of NASA but you are right, maybe thats it.

QFanny in FOUR SQ Max says it was like this whole other side of me that I never knew existed or something like that--very similar to what Nasedo Pierce said too. But for Max it was disturbing, and for Pierce he seemed to enjoy it. Maybe the HUMAN side of Max is his best side I don't know.

2 other things I noticed---when Nasedo Pierce is flirting with VW behind the two of them says "OP ED" Operative ED?

And the other is when Deputy Hansen says, "why would anyone bury a COYOTE?" Was Pierce the coyotes? I dont know what do you guys think?

By Qfanny

10-04-2000, 09:04 PM

GraceKel: Just to clarify, I am interested in what Whitaker says in that scene. Why did Pierce need to go to her for political reasons? The FBI Special unit operated under secrecy. This was drilled into us? Vanessa and Pierce were together b4 Destiny... This seems very weird. Of course, I see it as a big foreshadowing!!!!

By shapeshifter

10-04-2000, 09:32 PM

Qfanny, here's Maxcedo's edit of the definition of GraceKel:

GraceKel: 1)(n)Admired FF poster 2) (v) slo-mo-ing Roswell eps on your VCR 3) (v) rewinding, playing, rewinding, fastforwarding, playing, and pausing because your VCR does not have a slo-mo feature 3)(v) What happens when your VCR goes kaputt after watching and rewatching Roswell!

Czech and others, I never thought of Nasedo as one of the Liz shooters before, but it totally makes sense. I have always been troubled, though, by the subliminality of it ("we've got to get rid of her!"). I mean, you DO have to GraceKel to catch it! Maybe they will GraceKel that portion of Pilot for us in a later episode while Max is visiting his shrink.

Redhawk, what happened between my daughter's and my psyches was much worse than what happened between the two cars, (think of me as Maria's mother here) and she allegedly wasn't in or near the car when it happened. But thanks for the concern.

By Evid

10-04-2000, 11:11 PM

quote:Originally posted by HyperKitN:
QF-that was pretty funny.

Wow! I wish I had something more intuitive to add to all the great things said thus far.

HyperKitN: I'm still watching the episode a few times before I add anything, but something you mentioned made me think of "WHO" was around at the other healing? You guessed it, our lovely LIZ. I always wondered why she kneeled down next to Max when he was healing Kyle. I thought it was just for support but maybe Liz is needed to give Max a kick start.
Now... try to keep them apart T***.

Evid

By shaiwon72

10-05-2000, 12:11 AM

nasedo possibly being one of the shooter... well, there's a concept. the thing is i went back to watch the pilot and i don't hear, "we have to get rid of her" i even put on the closed caption, so i wouldn't miss hearing it. but i don't know where that was heard. the only closest thing i could hear and read was " ...was supposed to be here yesterday..."

anyway, it could be a possibility that nasedo was a shooter. in m2tm, he had said to liz that he was so many people she didn't know about. hmmmm..

it wouldn't be surprising if nasedo had something to do w/ liz getting the job. or the congresswoman. most likely, the interaction b/w pierce and whitaker would have been before destiny and w/o a doubt, she must have known about max and the clan.

if she is preggie, from "diddling" w/ pierce/nasedo, would she get some extra sensory vibes from the baby? just a thought.

~~emjay

By jen2themax

10-05-2000, 12:42 AM

quote:Originally posted by shaiwon72:
nasedo possibly being one of the shooter... well, there's a concept. the thing is i went back to watch the pilot and i don't hear, "we have to get rid of her" i even put on the closed caption, so i wouldn't miss hearing it. but i don't know where that was heard.
~~emjay

shaiwon72- You can hear them say,"we have to get rid of her" right when Liz is in front of Jen & Larry- just as she's handing them the "alien photo". I missed too until I turned up the sound! (It doesn't show up on closed caption)

By dreamin_away

10-05-2000, 04:02 AM

God, I'm goin to end up like Maria! I'm over hear sniffin green tea for enlightenment, hopin it'll give me some good ideas! Sadly, it's not workin. But, anyway, here's something I thought of before: If Nasedo was in Roswell and shot Liz, then where was T***? From what I can tell she like never leaves his side and is totally dependent on him. Maybe without him she'll become totally lost and never think of Max again(seriously doubted, but I can wish, can't I?).

By rocklowery

10-05-2000, 06:08 AM

Thanks for the hellos, starting a new schedule is always hectic. I'm slowly getting used to it.

As to the "metal detector" that Grant was using. He described it as a Pulse 5, kind of a fancy metal detector. I'm not sure what a Pulse 5 is, possibly be a combination metal detector/geiger counter, but he could also have been looking for residual heavy metals left over from the testing. This would make sense since the bombs would've been composed of metal compounds including lead. Also, Uranium breaks down into lead (I think, my specialty is asbestos minerals and fossils) I'll see what I can find out from my old text books. Any chemists out there who can assist with this?

By Palomino

10-05-2000, 06:38 AM

Rocklowery :

Yes, uranium breaks down into lead, but I would have thought that after an explosion of that magnitude any lead or U would be dispursed too thinly to pick up. Besides, the half life of uranium is 4 1.2 billion years. I don't know if the concentrations of lead alone would be enough. Anyhow, wouldn't the location of bombs being tested be a matter of record? And if were still top secret, the government wouldn't let a company come in and buy the top secret site.

By GraceKel

10-05-2000, 08:47 AM

Hi Guys did any of you look at the promos for next week when Max goes to open that door in school the next reel shows the 5beeper thing but if you SLOMO(pause first and slowmo) some very interesting images come up on that beeper- I think there are 6 different symbols---unfortunately I am not sophisticated enough to be able to post a pic of this but one symbol said W-1 another symbol was that vine looking crzy upside down 6----I remember seeing MW and then PW and a little bit later W-1 all behind Grant and Isabel in that scene when she is asking him what he is doing here in the desert. Also the other symbol were'nt we thinking it might have represented LIZ? Another was a triangle with a smaller triangle inside it. Sorry can't remember the rest. In the middle of this beeper thing it looked like three red dots--some were redder than others--each had a slightly different shade---oh well don't know what it means but I thought I would share, maybe everyone else could find this?

Shaiwon72 right after Liz says well I guess it would be alright to show you guys this(in the background of course it isn't loud you hear it said in the background---my daughter only caught it because she was listening rather than watching eating a donut at the time--she said she must have been inspired by Jasons love of donuts. I am not sure we were suppose to hear it--its low key to be dragged out later maybe---but they didn't know they were going to have such clue happy fans out there lol. Right after Liz says that keep your volume up---don't look just listen.

By StephStephSteph

10-05-2000, 09:28 AM

quote:Originally posted by czech please:
as i was drifting off to sleep last night this one pop into my head:

DID NASEDO SHOOT LIZ???

ok. that's all for now. your thoughts?

I ACTUALLY just got chills!

By StephStephSteph

10-05-2000, 09:35 AM

OK, so I had a thought about some stuff.. the first of which is this Courtney chic. Now, she came out of nowhere - just hired and working at the Crashdown with no explanation of where she came from or why we haven't seen her before.

So.. she also says something to Michael at the Crashdown, which lead me back to Destiny when Michael said something about Max healing ppl and Michael killing them. Could there be a diviosn between these two (good vs. evil) with Michael (and Courtney) on one side and Max on the other?

Then.. when Max and Liz first started "getting together", Michael was always telling him "not to get attached". Could it be that he said this not for the what-we-thought reasons (we all assumed, at least I did, that Michael just wanted them all to be independent and loners like him), but rather because Michael was part of this Evil Alien side and knew somehow Liz was connected to the good side (Max)?

Maybe I'm totally stretching it here, but my mind goes crazy when I'm at work and lately all I can think about is Roswell and "possibilities"

By GraceKel

10-05-2000, 09:38 AM

Ya know Czech Please and Steph Steph Steph, that line did just kind of hit me between the eyes "ISN'T KILLING PEOPLE WHAT GOT YOU INTO TROUBLE IN THE FIRST PLACE?"

If we think about this for a minute, if Liz had not gotten shot, Max would have remained invisible, quietly admiring Liz from a distance but probably never doing anything about it--if Nasedo had been the shooter, he might of actually started the thing he was trying to prevent, Max connecting to Liz? And judging from many of his actions as being somewhat fumbling, this isn't surprising really, so now I am scratching my head thinking about that one all over again hmmmmmm!!!!

By StephStephSteph

10-05-2000, 09:43 AM

quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
Ya know Czech Please and Steph Steph Steph, that line did just kind of hit me between the eyes "ISN'T KILLING PEOPLE WHAT GOT YOU INTO TROUBLE IN THE FIRST PLACE?"

Maybe Nacedo had been waiting for Max to "come out of his shell" and needed to bring him out in a way that wasn't completely obvious. So, with the shooting, he was trying to simply have Max realize his "potential" (I mean, the guy can HEAL people!), but in turn didn't realize there would become such a connection with Liz.

I'm spinning right now .. let me gather my thoughts and post again later.. you people make me crazy!

By Zero

10-05-2000, 10:25 AM

Evid - You got me thinking about the original healings, and why Nasedo - who supposedly (according to Tess) can't die - could not be healed by Max. (Also, keep in mind that the night is young, and the next episode will be a continuation of this first one.) When the scooby gang heals Michael in The Balance, Liz steps back from the circle to "find her own way." I can't remember if she takes a stone or not??? BUT she does ultimately show up in the vision - much to Max's surprise - and ultimately, is part of, and arguably essential to, the healing of Michael. Then we have the first healing of Nasedo. I have always wondered why - with her standing right there - Liz was not "included" in the group to heal them. We know there were enough stones. But, still she was there, and her presence could have been important (or essential) to his healing. If this is true (?) - Liz's presence may be important to healing such as this - that may be strechting it quit a bit, but I'm a dreamer!

Palomino - you always keep me tied to reality! Thanks!

I don't think Nasedo was involved in any way with Liz's shooting, though I don't rule out others' involvement, and it being intentional. I think the shooting brought Max to Nasedo's attention as the long lost podsters he had been looking for. Otherwise, why wouldn't he have nabbed them earlier since they (the podsters) were so important.

Grace Kel - the comment by Liz "isnt' killing people what got you in to this mess" etc. at first I thought was a referrence to Piece's death, BUT I think it was a statement directly pointed at Nasedo and his killing of special agents and other humans, like Atherton and Sheila (assuming he killed them). IF he had not left a trail of silver handprints, would the special unit had ever been created and would the podsters be hunted as they are/were?? I think this was Liz boldly standing up to Nasedo, not a commentary on Michael's killing of Pierce.

'Til later!

Zero

By Druscilla831

10-05-2000, 10:48 AM

I have to say that I agree with Palomino.There were alot of scientific mistakes. I hope that it was just a freak accident, an oversight. If not I think Palomino should get an advanced copy of every tape to check and re check their facts. I would but i am too busy right now.
All in Favor say I!!

Rivah

By GraceKel

10-05-2000, 10:49 AM

Zero interesting point you made about Liz being necessary for the healing process to work you may be right or are we just so anxious to make Liz important we are grasping here, but it works for me LOL!!!
But someone also made the point that it could be that an ALIEN knows how to KILL and alien and make sure he ain't coming back, special knowledge of what would truly kill an alien ---I guess we will have to see.

Also that was what I was originally thinking too about the killings, all the agents and so on, but I just thought this could have been a hidden clue as well since I for one STILL do not trust HARDING/NASEDO-he seems to have a hidden agenda-I cannot shake that feeling.

Even when he says to Max "well you're the leader" that whole scene looked shady to me with the weird lighting around the eyes and his tone seemed a little sarcastic to me.

I am not saying that Harding was in fact the shooter, I am just saying this is also a great possibility. If they would stop PILING ON THE CLUES ALREADY and start giving us some ANSWERS to SOME of this AT LEAST, I think I am feeling a bit frustrated today LOL...!!!

StephStephSteph yes I think it could have been used to draw Max out, but this would mean that they would have to know that Max would react to Liz's shooting, that she would be important him. They would have to know Liz's identity for some reason and be waiting to see who comes to her rescue? I guess it could be.

By Roswellrox	10-05-2000, 01:28 PM
Just bumping! We were on Page 2!!! AH! :hop:

By dreamin_away

10-05-2000, 01:32 PM

StephStephSteph- sorry, gonna have to disagree with you on Michael being evil, or even part evil. I just don't think he could be evil. Now, Courtney on the other hand...well we'll find out soon enough(hopefully).

By czech please

10-05-2000, 01:59 PM

quote:Originally posted by Palomino:
Rocklowery :

depleted uranium one of the substances thier powers can't manipulate ("white room"). i don't know the scientific significance of that, but there it is.

i've also been thinking about cadmium x. i think only use of certain powers would leave it behind. michael killed pierce with a "short, contained blast of unthinkable power," which someone identified as a type of radiation. max healed liz by manipulating her molecular structure and presumably that of the bullet. he wouldn't necessarily have left cadmium x then. it seems unlikely that they've been leaving radioactive isotopes all over town for ten years with no consequences.

By redhawk

10-05-2000, 02:48 PM

Hi!

Melodious - Thanks for pointing that out. Besides the new windows in the door, the windows glow yellow and the door appears dark blue. Wasn't it a solid brown door originally?

The new door.
(Thanks provence for the wonderful screen caps. )

Screen cap of one of the symbols in the original promos for the second season. Pic taken from one of Vidiot's promos.

The glowing four squares also appear in the title twice.

So, hmmm..., I'm not sure what this all means. The modern 4 square symbol appears in the promos along side the original 4 square symbol. Do they mean the same thing? I don't think so, but I have yet to figure out what the modern one means. Hmm. Lots of hmm...s after that ep.

Also, on the subject of Michael's door. When the sheriff and VW come to arrest him the second time, he has a different front door altogether. Eventhough earlier in this same episode the blue door with 4 yellow square windows appears. #1- Why change the original door from last season to include the 4 square window? #2- Why change the door again in this same episode to be a door with a large window and shade over it? The blue 4square door seems to face the original hallway from last season, but the large window shaded door appears to be on the outside of the building. Eventhough there is a door and building behind the sheriff and VW, there is a light next to the opposite door like it is out in the elements and not in a hallway. Did that make sense? I'm having a hard time being clear lately.

By Melodious1

10-05-2000, 03:02 PM

quote:Originally posted by redhawk:
Also, on the subject of Michael's door. When the sheriff and VW come to arrest him the second time, he has a different front door altogether. Eventhough earlier in this same episode the blue door with 4 yellow square windows appears. #1- Why change the original door from last season to include the 4 square window? #2- Why change the door again in this same episode to be a door with a large window and shade over it? The blue 4square door seems to face the original hallway from last season, but the large window shaded door appears to be on the outside of the building. Eventhough there is a door and building behind the sheriff and VW, there is a light next to the opposite door like it is out in the elements and not in a hallway. Did that make sense? I'm having a hard time being clear lately.

Redhawk: Muchisimas gracias for posting all those pics! I KNEW I wasn't hallucinating. I knew I'd seen that 4 square symbol before (a couple times actually). BTW, I understood you completely ; I'm under the impression Mike's apartment has two doors. One leading directly outside (Valenti & crew used to come and arrest Mike) and another (the door with the symbol on it) that leads into the actual apartment complex.

Is someone going to make a new "Signs & Symbols" thread? Because this most definitely needs to be discussed more in depth. It seems very intentional that this symbol was not only put on the door, but also made to be *seen* (it was glowing - definitely noticeable in the few frames it was in).

Melodious

By Starstruck

10-05-2000, 03:13 PM

HyperKitN-you asked about Max not saving Nescedo. I was thinking that something had to have killed the pod squad on their homeplanet and maybe it's the same thing that killed Harding- the skins. Maybe once you are killed by a skin there is no bringing you back.
About the skins being invisible- it brings to mind the movie Predator, this creature had some type of cloaking device, perhaps the skins do as well.

An observation about the skins - twice we are looking through presumably their eyes, and on both occasions it is night time. Could they be nocturnal? Also, what Isabel said to her mother before comes to mind, "you were like the sun". She says it with such happiness like the sun is a good thing- maybe a safe thing. Liz is spooked walking home at night in Missing feeling like something is following her. Will our gang be safe in the daylight and live in total fear of darkness?

Starstruck

By LizParkerfan

10-05-2000, 03:17 PM

Just wanted to pop in and say this one little thing.

Isn't it strang how Nasedo was suppose to be the protecter and he was the first one to die.

Remember is half

By Palomino

10-05-2000, 04:23 PM

CZECH PLEASE : This was part of your post:

depleted uranium one of the substances thier powers can't manipulate ("white room"). i don't know the scientific significance of that, but there it is.

Depleted uranium is still uranium, and radioactive. Uranium is number 92 on the Periodic Table of Elements, and is the last (highest) of the naturally occurring elements. Because of its nucleus being so large (92 protons plus the number of neutrons - depending on the isotope), Uranium is a heavy substance. It still doesn't make sense though for the podsters to be unable to unlock these gates, unless they have a weight limit on their telekinetic abilities. If the latch of depleted Uranium weighs ...say 10 lbs, then the podsquad should also be unable to move a 10 lbs chair. I think this sounds more like "magic science" again.

I have seen very little in the way of science on this show, and I'm afraid that the only thing carrying the show is the otherwise great story and writing(*qualified). If the show starts to lean more towards sci-fi, it doesn't have a leg to stand on, and will fall. When I got up on Wednesday I was depressed, because I realized I was not eagerly awaiting the next "Roswell", but dreading it, fearing that it was going to go downhill steadily, and not be renewed. They make jokes on the show about the Roswell cheese factory. On Monday night it wasn't funny - it hit too close to home. I hope next Monday's is fabulus and they go more with the suspense and relationships, because they obviouly don't have even high school science literate writers. After last year's mistakes and blunders, you would think TPTB would care enough to at least verify any science they use. If this is how they continue to write, the future of "Roswell" is grim. Sadly, next Monday, the only thing I have to look forward to so far is the shirtless Max scene.

By Zero

10-05-2000, 04:29 PM

Just bumping - hope to be back later to comment. Thanks for the pictures Redhawk! You always come through, and it is so much more interesting to "see" what we are talking about. I agree with the fact that Michael's apt. must have two doors, a back door off the bedroom that goes out side. But the "science" stuff bugs me too - I know "X-Files" has a scientist check every script for scientific missteps. Roswell should be doing this too - you can only push the improbable so far before becoming ridiculous. Okay, this was only suppose to be a bump, but ...

Zero

By GraceKel

10-05-2000, 05:13 PM

Calling out to REDHAWK any chance you can look at the promos---pause after Max opens the closet door at school and slomo those symbols off the beeper thing and then post them? I know its a tall order but if anyone could do it, I am sure you could, or are we going to have to wait til next week. Whatever you could do would be much appreciated---thanks.

Hey has everyone noticed that Tess has yet to be seen with a TOBASCO SAUCE bottle, she was eating licorice wasn't she? I thought they like things sweet and spicy? She only seems to like things just sweet---does this make her a TIC TAC?

QFANNY--back to what you were saying about the conversation between VW and Nasedo/Pierce so you think they are hinting at political alliances of an intergalatic nature here? Is that right? I agree, there are some very hidden agendas here I am sure of it.

By HyperKitN

10-05-2000, 06:43 PM

I will have to get back her, but just wanted to bump the thread.

Starstruck-I need to comment on what you said later.

By Usagi

10-05-2000, 07:47 PM

Hello to All! I'm new here, but you've all completely amazed me with the theories and details!

In the 'Roswell Reality' there is obviously abundant intelligent life in those vast reaches of space, so my theory is that Liz is the reason why both groups of aliens wound up on Earth to begin with.

I don't know how into Native American Philosophy anyone here is, but I have read many accounts of oral tradition that some groups of NA's (I believe the Pueblo's in particular) believe they originated on another planet in the Sirius constellation (which is why the Wolf is symbolic as a teacher). There is a particularly well known story about the son of Kokopelli (sp? - a figure of a hunchbacked man playing the flute) returning his people to the star they came from - and of course about his entire tribe disappearing without a trace shortly after he came of age) Anyway, to make a long post shorter perhaps Liz's connection and ultimate importance could come from an ancient lineage - now human - but once very important to Max's people.

I know it's pretty far out, but it ties into Riverdog's place in this story and why Nasedo felt he could hide out with them so many years ago.

Just my theory! (and again, you are ALL absolutely amazing!)

By rosfan

10-05-2000, 08:55 PM

quote:Originally posted by dreamin_away:
If Nasedo was in Roswell and shot Liz, then where was T***? From what I can tell she like never leaves his side and is totally dependent on him. Maybe without him she'll become totally lost and never think of Max again(seriously doubted, but I can wish, can't I?).

Maybe T*** was in Roswell with him. Could she have been the other shooter? Maybe the 2 guys arguing over the gun were actually Nasedo AND T*** disagreeing about whether or not to shoot Liz. Side note: Does that make Nasedo=Beavis and T***=Butthead ?

By HyperKitN

10-05-2000, 09:25 PM

Okay back again-Starstruck-that was very interesting what you said. The freaks come out tonight right. It's kinda funny because in the books Michael is always talking about how they were able to see better at night. So maybe they were safer in the daylight. I know the two stories are not the same, but maybe they had the better sight at night to protect them from the evils of the night. What you said could be true and the aliens come out at night because they have the better advantage then the podster, who may have the better advantage in the day. And like you said the sun & the color yellow are always brought up in eppies. I think it will be very interesting to see if your theory pans out.

By Evid

10-05-2000, 09:42 PM

Hi Everybody:
Zero: When Liz was handed a stone by Riverdog, he never took it back since he did tell her she had to choose her own path, therefore never excluding her.
Although I don't think she drank out of the bowl of water, so how did she connect? Maybe because she was already connected through Max.
She also never made contact with Michael, which all the others did. Did she some how know that saving Michael was not a good idea, because who or what he might turn out to be? He has been the cause and continues to be the cause of their downfall.
But the big question is why does Liz need to continue to walk the path alone? How much more alone time can poor Lizzy take?

Evid

By czech please

10-05-2000, 11:34 PM

another crackpot idea for y'all that i'm dubbing the "aunt tess theory":

ok. hybrids. alien dna & human dna. where the heck did the human dna come from? i think it's possible that in order to create the hybrids, the aliens needed to transplant the essence (life force, whatever)of the royal four into human women. we already know that the alien's powers are actually human, so it's logical to assume that their race and humanity are fairly similar biologically, which would explain the reason they were sent to earth in the first place (it's a big universe, after all). so crossbreeding is theoretically feasible. right? anyway, my theory is that the hybrids are born to human women *then* placed in pods to continue their alien develoment. but WHO were the human mothers? i'm throwing claudia parker out there for consideration.

fearing discovery, maybe nasedo arranged for the hu-moms to give birth with the assistance of riverdog's people, who had healed him. he then took then kids and disappeared. This experience could help explain claudia's fascination with native american culture--they understand exactly what happened to her.

carrying an alien baby could have affected claudia physically, giving her some trace of the powers her baby had. she could have passed these powers on to her other child(ren), and to her granddaughter liz. these powers would have stayed dormant, but were activated by max during the healing. this would account for liz's flashes. we know claudia and liz were very close, maybe because claudia saw liz as the child--the daughter-- she lost.

so who was claudia's alien baby? i'm betting TESS! this could explain why max was drawn to her and liz--they're genetically related. remember that in "max/max" tess said their "biological drives" were awakened. i'd say this happened for max--and liz--around the time of "sexual healing." that's why they couldn't keep their hands to themselves ;->

but the biological destiny didn't take love into account at all. too bad for tess. she could very well be max's biological match, but so is her relative liz. so not only does max love liz with his human emotions, his alien biological drive recognizes her as his destined mate. game over tessie. you got no shot.

ok. i'm done. i know this one is a real stretch, but i LOVE the idea of liz and tess being related. it just cracks me up!!!

By jen2themax

10-06-2000, 12:08 AM

quote:Originally posted by czech please:
... i know this one is a real stretch, but i LOVE the idea of liz and tess being related. it just cracks me up!!!

czech please- Me too! Especially after Tess's remark about 'they have nothing to do with us'!

Seriously, it's a very thought provoking theory!

By Dreamdancer

10-06-2000, 02:25 AM

Hello everyone! I have really enjoyed all of your post. I am new to the board and want to let everyone know before my post that I am an extreme dreamer/applaesaucer so watch out.

I think Liz is very important to the alien mythology. This show kind of reminds me of Sailor Moon. I think Liz is a princess or a legend someone fortold to help the chosen four from before if she is not apart of the chosen four. Another thing have you noticed how important the eyes are on this show the eyes being the window into the soul and all have you noticed the paticular concidence that Max, Iz and Micheal all have brown eyes yet strangely enough Tess is the only one with blue ones but wait dosen't Liz have brown eyes?... This is strange but I am going to share it anyway I believe these were called what if's. What if Liz is from a diffrent world than the pods a world in coalition with theirs and because of a conflict civil war breaks out on her planet is destroyed and she dies. But, her mother puts a prediction of her rebirth, on the day of blah blah blah when the stars perfectly align she will be born and the battle for freedom will begin ... I know this is quite off the wall but I can't help my overactive imagination.. Dreamer

By StephStephSteph

10-06-2000, 08:43 AM

quote:Originally posted by dreamin_away:
StephStephSteph- sorry, gonna have to disagree with you on Michael being evil, or even part evil. I just don't think he could be evil. Now, Courtney on the other hand...well we'll find out soon enough(hopefully).

Trust me, I hope I'm wrong. I just have this feeling he's part of the Evil Side, but has grown up with Max and Is and the "good" has rubbed off. I don't think he has any clue what he was "supposed" to be or "supposed" to become. I mean, you can't become something you've never been exposed to, right? You determine your OWN Destiny?? Isn't that the way it works!?

By StephStephSteph

10-06-2000, 08:52 AM

quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:

Hey has everyone noticed that Tess has yet to be seen with a TOBASCO SAUCE bottle, she was eating licorice wasn't she? I thought they like things sweet and spicy? She only seems to like things just sweet---does this make her a TIC TAC?

You're RIGHT! Although, she has been seen eating things very sweet.. hmm.. you people sure do make me think!!

I can't shake the feeling that Tess and Nacedo are in some way out to get Liz and the rest of the Pod Squad. I just REALLY wish I could figure out why!

By shaiwon72

10-06-2000, 09:02 AM

quote:Originally posted by czech please:
another crackpot idea for y'all that i'm dubbing the "aunt tess theory":

i know this one is a real stretch, but i LOVE the idea of liz and tess being related. it just cracks me up!!!

oh my God... i second that motion. sibling rivalry. i really do like kyle but if they were to pair kyle and tess together, think of it...he'll be going out w/ liz's sister!

:gin:

By Palomino

10-06-2000, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Czech Please :

Dear Czech,
This is not necessarily true and actually unlikely. The SSers needed the VIP's to be reborn, and decided to do it on this planet probably for several reasons.
1. They (the adults) could SS to match humans and thus hide,
2. There may be something about being human that will help the podsters be able to defeat the enemy, but we don't know that yet.
3. Being here gets them out of the immediate danger of being on their own world.

If the podsters are originally from the SSer race, then the SSers must have had a reason for the genetic engineering:
1. Again, the podsters might need something of humanity in them to defeat the enemy.
2. They were being reborn. Think of the original four SSers from the crash. They were supposed to raise the podsters? The adults could SS and fit into any neighborhood setting, but what of SSer babies? How can you instruct a newborn SSer in SSing? Can you trust it to hold its form in public? What if one of the little rascals is mischievious and changes for friends, at school, at the mall, or infront of the neighbors? What if SSing is an ability aquired only after a certain age? It would have been impossible to hide SSer babies or childern on Earth. Engineering them to contain the genetic characteristics of humans was the ONLY way to hide them in plain sight.
3. As for the podding, these are not just two different species from the same world, with the same basic chemistry and DNA (like horses and donkeys, or humans and chimps). Humans and chimps share 98% of the same DNA, but are totally unable to interbreed. Horses and donkeys are more closely related, but they produce sterile offspring - not what the SSers wanted. The odds of two species WHICH DEVELOPED ON DIFFERENT WORLDS interbreeding and producing living offspring is astronomical. On top of that, they would not have wanted any of them to be defective, physically or mentally - either naturally or from the chromosomes not pairing correctly. The only way to ensure the cross and the desired characteristics, was to genetically engineer the embryos(evidence - the book). As long as they had this advanced technology, surely they have the less advanced technology of podding the embryos for their development(we know they had this technology too). It is extremely unlikely that a female of either planet would be able to carry a hybrid child. Body chemistry, differences in gestation, etc, would not match the podsters' needs, and mothers as well as children would probably not survive.

As for where they got the donors for the human DNA, if the podsters were sent as embryos, then the engineering was done before the crash, and it is unlikely we know the relatives. If DNA was taken after the crash, we might know the donors or their relatives. WE don't know how long they were incubating, so we don't know yet WHEN the DNA was taken. Hopefully, they will answer our questions soon.

By Melodious1

10-06-2000, 11:03 AM

quote:Originally posted by StephStephSteph:
Trust me, I hope I'm wrong. I just have this feeling he's part of the Evil Side, but has grown up with Max and Is and the "good" has rubbed off. I don't think he has any clue what he was "supposed" to be or "supposed" to become. I mean, you can't become something you've never been exposed to, right? You determine your OWN Destiny?? Isn't that the way it works!?

Hey Steph, there's something I've pondered considering Mike's 'alliances' (or former alliances, I should say). Kind of going along with the idea that Mike could possibly be evil, "turn to the darkside" or contest Max's 'rule' (if pushed hard enough) as some have mentioned. AND going along with the theories about Max & Tess' marriage being arranged to make an alliance...

In one of the Cut Scenes (can't remember for which ep, I think it was either 4 Square or M2tM) Tess supposedly tells Michael that she's his sister (or something on the lines)....

What if Michael (as well as his 'possible' sister, Tess) were actually part of a faction that was thrown together with Max's faction to unite against some common enemy (I assume, these Skins)? However, Michael's faction and Max's faction never truly saw eye-to-eye. This has rolled over into their "current selves". Possibly the former Michael wanting to rule, but had to settle with 2nd-in-command because his slightly older sister (the Queen of their faction, Tess) married Max, making him the unequivocal sovereign? The alliance is doubly sealed by princess Isabel being betrothed to prince Mike? But could Michael eventually want to challenge Max for "King"? Possibly recreating some scenario from the past (which led to their demise)?

Trying to incorporate this in the thread... Is it just me, or as Season 1 progressed, did it seem that Max and Michael's relationship was easier the more prevalent Liz became in the podsters lives? Ex/ in "Sexual Healing" - Max & Mike are joking around with each other playfully (almost like brothers) before Max enters Biology (?) class and sees Liz sitting there. But; when Liz isn't in Max's life (or her position with Max is 'threatened'), Max and Michael are at each other's throats (LN, TLV, BD, etc). I wonder what this could mean? If indeed there's something here and I'm not just grabbing at straws...which is a very high possibility...

I know this theory is out there, I just thought I'd throw it out to see what y'all thought (I actually think it's been brought up before, but can't remember by who or on what thread).

Melodious

By NoDork

10-06-2000, 11:06 AM

As you can tell I'm new to the board and only starting watching Roswell over the summer and was hooked as soon as Max said "It was you."

I have gotten no work done this week trying to catch up on everything especially this thread.

I know that this has probably been discussed before but with the new boards I imagine the olds treads are no longer accessable.

My questions are: Has the alien Mythology been discussed? Where are they from? Have they visited earth before? Are they humanoid thus the reason for choosing earth and taking on human form? Could Liz's importance have something to do with an earlier encounter?

I do apologize if all this has been addressed on this thread before and they may be questions that we're all pondering but this thread seems to have so many theories.

Maybe to better understand Liz's importance we may first have to find out about the aliens mythology first which judging by the 1st episode we may be waiting a while before the writers decide to give us any backgroud.

They appear to want to introduce the Podsters enemies before the Podsters learn anything about themselves, but it's just the 1st episode.

I love this thread.

By StephStephSteph

10-06-2000, 12:19 PM

quote:Originally posted by Melodious1:
Hey Steph, there's something I've pondered considering Mike's 'alliances' (or former alliances, I should say). Kind of going along with the idea that Mike could possibly be evil, "turn to the darkside" or contest Max's 'rule' (if pushed hard enough) as some have mentioned. AND going along with the theories about Max & Tess' marriage being arranged to make an alliance...

In one of the Cut Scenes (can't remember for which ep, I think it was either 4 Square or M2tM) Tess supposedly tells Michael that she's his sister (or something on the lines)....

I know this theory is out there, I just thought I'd throw it out to see what y'all thought (I actually think it's been brought up before, but can't remember by who or on what thread).

Melodious[B]

I think you've got it! Guess we can all go home now, eh?

Actually, I think this a great theory and HIGHLY plausible. Let me ponder this stuff for the weekend.. my car is CALLING me out of this office!

By GraceKel

10-06-2000, 12:45 PM

StephStephSteph, I posted that theory a long time ago on the some thread somewhere, probably after the Balance episode because I always thought it was interesting the way Max described meeting Michael in the desert, Isabel and I found each other first, we knew we would be alright if we stayed together, we walked for AWHILE we could feel someone else, he said he saw us but....he was standing on this big ROCK, typical Michael, HERE I AM DEAL WITH ME. We all saw the headlights at the same time, Isabel took my hand, I put my hand out for Michael, I knew he wanted to but he just wouldn't take it-----it was the HARDEST THING FOR MICHAEL TO TRUST US.

That always stood out in my mind, WHY wouldn't he trust them, because he is not one of them? I noticed in the second episode when Max is waiting outside the crashdown for Liz so they can go to Michaels and b4 Michael runs across the street that old sign lights up ---it says behind Michael E VICE PAIR----in TLV we see HOE VICE in back of Tess(the way it shows) I also noticed in M2TM eppy when Michael grabs Tess by the arm and says Nasedo has Liz a sign of a pair of shoes MORPHS OVER THEM as if they are a PAIR of some sort---of course Palomino laughed at this but I thought it meant something myself. Nobody would ever entertain this idea with me a long time ago cuz I think they thought I was trying to make Michael EVIL or something, I thought it would be a great plot twist to have him OVERCOME HIS DARK ORIGINS MYSELF but hey what do I know.
I have also entertained the idea that Michael has some connection to Liz(like brother?) MELODIUS1 I too noticed that Michael took on almost a brotherly role to Liz by the end of last season, and YES Max and Michael DO seem to get along better when Liz is in Max's life--so if two of us have noticed this well maybe there is something there. Or is it just that when both Max and Michael both have love in their life, they are happier and easier to get along with I don't know but...its a thought.

By redhawk

10-06-2000, 01:02 PM

Hi!

GraceKel - Those symbols on the EA beeper have been bugging me too. Did the beeper from Destiny have symbols on it? The new beeper has 6 symbols on it.
I need to get the promo on my computer first. I'll see what I can do. How about the Crashdown screen cap in the mean time.

There appears that familiar swirl pattern again.
Here is the swirl some of us relate to Liz behind the modern 4 squares.

Pic taken from Vidiot's promos.
Hmm...

Hi Usagi - Welcome to the thread! I think Wolflady and Rostafehrian on the Signs and Symbols thread have brought up similar things. Very interesting.

My question is "Why have the writers brought up the coyote twice now?" Once in SH (startling Liz) and again in S&B. Hmm...

Starstruck - super theory about the Sun/daylight vs. nighttime.

I definitely have Roswell on the brain. Last night I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about Roswell. My thoughts pertained to one of these theories, but now I can't remember which one. I just remember a light going off in my head. Aha! Eureka! Darn, don't ya hate it when ya can't remember. I do remember thinking, though, that I have Roswell on the brain WAY too often.

By RozRules

10-06-2000, 01:40 PM

Not only should we theorize about the symbols on that beepers thingy, but also we should theorize about WHO is holding it. That looks like a girls hand to me...

~Christina

By Melodious1

10-06-2000, 01:54 PM

quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
StephStephSteph, I posted that theory a long time ago on the some thread somewhere, probably after the Balance episode because I always thought it was interesting the way Max described meeting Michael in the desert, Isabel and I found each other first, we knew we would be alright if we stayed together, we walked for AWHILE we could feel someone else, he said he saw us but....he was standing on this big ROCK, typical Michael, HERE I AM DEAL WITH ME. We all saw the headlights at the same time, Isabel took my hand, I put my hand out for Michael, I knew he wanted to but he just wouldn't take it-----it was the HARDEST THING FOR MICHAEL TO TRUST US.

GraceKel: I KNEW someone posted that before, I just couldn't remember who (or what thread), all apologies.

However, this also reminds me of the very blatant differences in Max's memories of "emerging" (in BALANCE) as compared to the memories he (supposedly) has later when Tess comes into the picture. During the recap at the beginning of S&B, we see Max (& Isabel I think) 'emerging' from the pods, these are the "memories" from 4 SQUARE I think (when Max confronts Tess). WHICH memories are we supposed to believe are authentic? The memories Max had in BALANCE or the memories he had in 4 SQUARE??

quote:Nobody would ever entertain this idea with me a long time ago cuz I think they thought I was trying to make Michael EVIL or something, I thought it would be a great plot twist to have him OVERCOME HIS DARK ORIGINS MYSELF but hey what do I know.

I entertain the idea I don't want this to be true, keep in mind, but I think it's plausible. I also believe Harding might have been part of the Tess/Michael faction as well. Since I'm a believer in the 2 shapeshifter theory; TicTac (I believe), could be part of the Max/Isabel faction (and is possibly against the Max/Tess, Mike/Is pairings and is hoping for other means for the Podsters to obtain victory - I think there's some other important reason why Earth was chosen, besides for the human powers, I think humans themselves are important in some way. However, this has yet to be proven).

quote:I have also entertained the idea that Michael has some connection to Liz(like brother?) MELODIUS1 I too noticed that Michael took on almost a brotherly role to Liz by the end of last season, and YES Max and Michael DO seem to get along better when Liz is in Max's life--so if two of us have noticed this well maybe there is something there. Or is it just that when both Max and Michael both have love in their life, they are happier and easier to get along with I don't know but...its a thought.

I think it could go either way: either Mike was feeling "brotherly" towards Liz (because she's Max's 'chosen'? Because he's in love with Liz's best friend? Or because even Michael can sense something *different* about Liz?) OR Michael and Max simply got along better because they were in love (and with these women they love).

Regardless which is more accurate, it does seem love is a major factor in peaceful equilibrium between our podsters. Particularly between Mike and Max. I suppose that's kind of nieve or too romantic... but Mike seems more *focused* loving Maria and Max more of a true leader when Liz is by his side. Call me a hopeless romantic if you must!! It's how I feel.

Melodious

By czech please

10-06-2000, 03:05 PM

i'd just like to say that this thread rocks. all of or ideas are so different, but all so fabulous. if roswell ever needs new writers i know what their first stop should be!

also, i hadn't thought about the "bad michael" angle before, but now...it's interesting to see how michael's powers so far have all been offensive, while max's are defnsive. what's up with that? michael quote from "destiny": "you heal people maxwell, and i kill them. you're good and i'm bad." hmmmm.....

By bkwrm79-Stargazer

10-06-2000, 03:13 PM

I think that it is true that when Liz is involved, Max and Michael fight less. Perhaps it is because Max feels better, more inspired, with Liz near him and is able to lead without alienating (poor word choice) Michael. Perhaps, because Liz is also very much a leader, with her around it becomes more consultative- a group plan rather than a struggle between two people over whose ideas will prevail.

I don't buy Michael being bad just because his powers are those of a warrior- killing the bad guys is sometimes a much more effective way of saving lives than healing individual victims. Still, maybe there is something different about him. Tess is tutoring him- perhaps her powers are similar in some way to his, so she can help him control his abilities whereas Max and Isabel could not.

By Zero

10-06-2000, 03:30 PM

Hi all - great theorizing out there! I just wanted to say - to those who are curious - that I'm going to wait until we have over 300 posts before starting a new thread. I read somewhere that the number of threads slow down the site more than the number of pages, and that they (moderators) like us to wait before opening new ones.

I don't have much time now, but I want to WELCOME all the new "faces" to the thread!! Plus, to add that we have discussed the alien mythology in the past at great length, and I have a little theory about it involving Liz. I think the aliens have been visiting Earth for thousands of years, and that Liz is some kind of savior prophesized (sp?) in some of the Indian ancient writings. I don't have time to go on, but I will elaborate if anyones desires!

Zero :D

By Starstruck

10-06-2000, 03:38 PM

Hi everyone, welcome to all who are new.

czech please - I really liked your theory, and an added thought- borrowing from so many other alien stories I've seen. During some supposed abductions some women claim to have had medical procedures done, much like those done by an OBGYN. Eggs were harvested, mixed with alien whatever and the women were then impregnated by the aliens only to have them later return to take the fetus from them. This actually could play into your theory, although that would make the human moms unwilling participants, but there again if Hardings feelings about how disposable humans are represents that of those on the homeplanet I doubt they would have cared if the human hosts were unwilling.

Just a coment on Michael being evil- Darth Vadder started out as the good sweet Anikan Skywalker, so Michael could have been born of the dark side but time and circumstance have turned him good.

It does seem that Michael and Max get along better when Liz is around. Remember what Michael said to her when he returned her diary "thanks for giving me one more reason to envy Max Evans. It's nice to know we have at least one friend in this town." Liz is the one thing Michael and Max can agree on. It took Michael awhile to realize this but the important thing is he did.

Redhawk- I have dreamed of Roswell also -it's a sad, sad obsession isn't it? LOL! I don't remember the beeper in Destiny having any symbols on it. I do recognize some of them from Tess's book however. The center lighted pentagon looks blue.

In the new 4 square with swirl symbol it looks like the top left and bottom right square have a vertical rectangle with two small squares on the right inside the square, and the bottom left and top right square have a horizontal rectangle with two small squares on the right inside the squares. Does anyone else see this. I wish I could draw for you what I'm seeing. Please tell me someone else sees this and I'm not losing it.

RozRules- It does look like a womans hand holding the beeper- Topolsky? (I don't want her to really be dead) She was after all able to get her hands on an orb!!

Starstruck

By HyperKitN

10-06-2000, 03:41 PM

Speaking of Michael and Tess I have been wondering for a long time if they were going to add Tess as Michael's sister after all or are they totally going to drop that all together this season.

But what you guys are saying is interesting. I don't think that Michael is from an evil fraction of aliens.

I do think that Tess did turn herself over to the evil ones whether it be the new skins or some evil rebels from their planet.

I also agree w/Palomino in the sense that maybe the SSing doesn't happen till a later age. Even thought Tess told Max in M2TM that they couldn't do it because of the bone structure. If they can manipulate molecular structures then I am sure they can manipulate their bone as well, isn't that molecular. I don't even think I am spelling half of this right so please forgive me. I don't want to forget what i am saying.

NoDork-welcome.
Ew, I was just thinking, do you know what a dork really is? Good thing you aren't one. I'm just kidding w/ya, but it is something gross incase you don't know................................................Anyway, sorry back to the point. Maybe bringing in the Skins will help them find out more about their alien side. If they capture or I guess befriend one, they probably know a little about their own enemy.

I think they do need to find out about whose human DNA they got. For all we know all the podster and all the humans could be related to each other.

Which now brings me to the Liz and Tess as siblings. That is pretty interesting. I hope they didn't use human wombs, but didn't they do that on the X-files. Use abducted woment to carry aliens embryos. I don't remember. But Since this being Sci-fi and we don't know if aliens do exist and if they are different them us if they do, I suppose anything can go.

By Qfanny

10-06-2000, 04:21 PM

quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:

Exactly!!!!!!! I was reading somewhere that one of the cast members (Katy I think) said everything in the first episode is Important! Every word.

By GraceKel

10-06-2000, 06:36 PM

REDHAWK boy I ask and you respond that is so wonderful, that is exactly the beeper thing I was talking about----interesting the symbols, but is anyone else drowning in symbols, I can't keep them straight LOL!!!!
Redhawk I can't ever say I have actually had a dream about Roswell but I have it on my mind constantly--thinking how to solve the mystery of the show, talking to myself geez how hard could this be-and yet it is very hard LOL!!!

RozRules it does look like a female hand doesn't it-I agree, but my daughter says Oh ALEX always wears those kind of sweatshirts doesn't he? I don't know. LOL!

Melodius1 I think many of us are diehard ROMANTICS, nothing to be ashamed of is it? I am proud to be one actually. Interesting you said you did not want the story for Michael to go that way, why? I think Michael will actually turn out RIGHT (if they did go with this I mean-not sure) and ofcourse we all keep calling them the evil aliens but maybe it is just two factions, not necessarily evil but disagreeing parties.

Bookworm79Stargazer, I hope you don't think I meant that Michael would turn out bad in the end I just meant from a different faction but then again if they were the dark side origins--he as already overcome them by being raised away from them and will continue to find his humanity through his human friends.

QFANNY-so EVERY WORD IS IMPORTANT HUH? So what do you think Dep Hansen meant when he said "WHO WOULD BURY A COYOTE?" Now I will have to pay attention very closely to every word in the episode which means I will have to suffer(LOL!) and watch it again.

Starstruck along with your night predators theory---Michael says "we are all in the dark here just waiting to be attacked." or maybe you posted that already sorry if you did.

Zero I remember your theory about Liz and the NA and I do like this idea because I would like to see the linkage that they have hinted at with GC and the NA. By all means you should post it again because we have new mythologists on this thread that probably never saw it.

Shout outs to Hyperkitn, and to CzechPlease(so nice to have you join us, very interesting theories you have going.)

By Melodious1

10-06-2000, 08:03 PM

quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
Melodius1 I think many of us are diehard ROMANTICS, nothing to be ashamed of is it? I am proud to be one actually. Interesting you said you did not want the story for Michael to go that way, why? I think Michael will actually turn out RIGHT (if they did go with this I mean-not sure)

Well, I keep thinking Michael 'turning to *his* darkside' and getting himself killed or something terrible a la Anakin Skywalker (although death was welcomed by him in the end and we all kind of saw it coming). That's me! Always thinking of the worst case scenario!! What will that do to the podsters 'balance'?

If Mike ever *does* challenge Max for "rule"; I hope Max would kick some sense into him, hence Mike won't ever try to do it again and let bygones be bygones.

quote:...and of course we all keep calling them the evil aliens but maybe it is just two factions, not necessarily evil but disagreeing parties.

And then of course, what if ALL the actual *alien* factions are "evil"? Max's faction (and Michael's) just happen to be the *lesser* of the two (three) "evils". I'm one of those that believe the podsters 'destiny' is eventually to fight for *humanity*, not for some alien race they don't remember or know anything about (and it doesn't seem they'll learn anymore about it considering Nasedo's state at the end of S&B - Where's TicTac??). Granted, this could change in the future, we might learn that the Podians of Planet Twilo are indeed the saints Momogram portrayed them to be (however, I doubt this - nothing is that good - I don't care what planet you're from!). I just don't trust anyone I suppose.

Melodious

By 47born	10-06-2000, 08:16 PM
I have a question for the board. Following the evil alien line and the demise of Nasedo, why did the "skins" not kill Micheal at the crime scene? It was dark and he was alone. They killed Nasedo and Micheal is considered one of the "Royal Four" who they are supposedly after. Any thoughts?

By czech please

10-06-2000, 08:32 PM

quote:Originally posted by 47born:
I have a question for the board. Following the evil alien line and the demise of Nasedo, why did the "skins" not kill Micheal at the crime scene? It was dark and he was alone. They killed Nasedo and Micheal is considered one of the "Royal Four" who they are supposedly after.
Any thoughts?

47--i'm about 99% sure that nasedo was the specific target of the skins in "S&B." i'm not *entirely* convinced that the skins just want to kill the royal four, though. going back to the star wars analogy (hey, you guys started it!): sure, you could kill luke skywalker, but if you can get him on your side, so much the better. i wouldn't be suprised if the skins plan is something like this. the had plenty of opportunity to kill michael, and max was with nasedo right before (we presume) he was attacked, so they could have got him if the wanted him. i think they needed to take out the guardian (nasedo) before they can do anything with the four.

also, just to clarify i think tess is liz's aunt (gc's daughter) NOT her sister. that would be too much even for me!

By thescoobygang

10-06-2000, 08:34 PM

The beeper in the preview does look like this one in Destiny.

But it was too dark in Destiny to see if there were symbols on it.

By justsmile

10-06-2000, 08:41 PM

okay does any one else think that the beepers are for five of the skins or to warn five totally different groups? I think nasedo said "Its the skins" like there are also others but the skins know!

justsmile

could explain different beepers, since we only saw the backstreet boys one last season

By thescoobygang

10-06-2000, 09:15 PM

I just find it really strange that the number 5 is re-occurring in objects. For one, the beeper is in the shape of a pentagon. 5 points.

then there's the 5 lines in this symbol in The Balance

Lastly, the 5 stars in Venus.

Of course this could all just be coincidence. But many have speculated that the 5th star in Venus represents Liz. So maybe there is something significant about 5?

By Dreamdancer

10-06-2000, 10:19 PM

Hi all I am also new to this site. I love all these theories and would like to here more. I have tried to find the orginal thread, if anyone could help me I would appreciate it.Zero- I think this also about the legendary Liz. Like what I said in my post about Liz maybe not being alien (though personally I think it would make since) but her being a descendent of a group that came here before maybe at the dawn of the neolithic age. Thats why GC had such a facination with NA. NA where the people the aliens came in contact with inspiring a whole new race of people. With talents or speacial intertrest. And the aliens left the earth to let the natural evoultion take its course. But, maybe one of them was a seer who predicts problems with the future so he fortells of a person who would unite them again to face the enemy. Maye this is why Max senses something in Liz and why the teo men tried to kill her in the Pilot. Just a thought.

By shaiwon72

10-06-2000, 10:49 PM

i don't think that mike is a bad alien or will be 'seduced by the dark side'. i think that mike wasn't as fortunated to be raised in a loving environment was the rest. he's on his own and feels like there should be a tough exterior. he's even said that he always felt there was something out there so much more important and he learns it. learning who he was, he probably realizes his responsibility and maybe he sees it as a means to feel needed, important for an existance. who knows?

i definitely agree that when liz is in max's life, mike and max get along. maybe what he feels for her is brotherly. when he returned liz's diary, he realizes that he could trust her. or when mike finds out that max kissed tess, he had said that liz trusted max, mike trusted max... he was defending her. and when max was taken, he held her in her hysteria. and when liz was stuck at the harding house, he promised to get liz out of there to maria.

i think there's some connection there that he feels that he can trust liz but in the same sense, he's afraid to have those feelings. it would make him feel... human. and knowing that he's next in command, he feels that he needs to fill the shoes and be responsible, b/c he is... needed.

liz definitely has a link to the posters. if she's charmed the male podsters, i think she'll just as be accept and trusted by the female podster.

just a thought.

By shapeshifter

10-06-2000, 10:54 PM

quote:Originally posted by Zero:
...(snip)
I have a little theory ...I think the aliens have been visiting Earth for thousands of years, and that Liz is some kind of savior prophesized (sp?) in some of the Indian ancient writings. I don't have time to go on, but I will elaborate if anyones desires!

Zero :D

Hey Zero! It's your party and you can cry (prophecy) if you want to! --although the volume of messages on the new boards seems more intimidating than intimate at times. (those are supposed to be winks, not an eye twitch).

And Redhawk, good catch on the coyote symbolism. I rambled on for 2 posts (on LSS's thread) about the size of coyotes in the yard where I used to live without even remembering the significance of it to River Dog and Liz (fear) last season. But still, the point still stands that a big coyote seen up close in one's yard IS intimidating--especially if it has the personna of Pierce!

And to whoever asked, the original Liz Myth thread still lives at http://www.ulink.net/plum/Various/IsLiz.htm and is linked from the Altered Liz Theory page of the Archive site at http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/ which will hopefully be majorly updated in the next 2 weeks barring more serious computer crashes, car crashes, viruses (human and computer) and if God is willing.

But, just wondering: is the 'Evil Within' now a relativistic perception? Or do the Evil Dudes stay Evil? Or is MOmmo not real?

By HyperKitN

10-06-2000, 11:11 PM

47 my take on the subject is that w/Nasedo gone the skins probably think they can do what ever they want to the podster.

If Tess is bad they wouldn't kill her because she could be working for them.

As for the rest maybe they want to check out how much the podsters know before eliminating them.

With Nasedo gone they probably think they have a chance. Not to mention the fact that he probably knew how to find them or kill them and they didn't want him the tell Max.

Or maybe they want to kidnap Max or the others to try and get what they want from the pod squads endangered people.

Man, you guys are comming up w/so many new theories so fast I can't keep up anymore. All I can do is comment. I think my mind is tapped out from the summer. I am just glad that the season has started.

GK-thanx for the shout-out. I always tend to agree w/you so keep it up :D

By Panola

10-06-2000, 11:17 PM

Hi all, coming out of lurking mode. Usagi you have some interesting thoughts about NA stories. That would tie story lines together from Riverdog to Liz's importance. I read a interesting theory on the science thread. Someone thought that since the story seems "off", Max could be dreaming. However everything is "off" after the momogram appears. When Max & Iz went to talk to Michael & T***, the facial expressions of both Mi & T*** were frosty. The verbal comments were hostile & sarcastic. I thought that Liz was awesome when she spoke up to Nasedo. She had been fearful in previous episodes. Her boldness in talking thus to Nasedo qualifies as new leadership skills and courage. During the summer she may have decided that she lost her true love and has nothing more to lose. She is following her own path (per riverdog) and finding her strength which would seem to link her to the others. Her lonely path may forge a way for all of them to combine their strengths. Her knowledge is important for solutions to their problems. (even if the solutions are linked to improbable fuzzy science ones. Hollywood creates many antiscientific solutions.) The solutions show her importance. If the pod squad leaves her out of the initial reasoning, they will not succeed. Panola

By GraceKel

10-07-2000, 06:22 AM

DreamDancer I think this idea is similar to Zero's which has merit indeed if we would only revisit GC book!!!! PANOLA where have you been hiding come back and share often, we love new ideas.
TheScoobysGang indeed that number 5 symbolism keeps reoccurring even Grants PULSE 5 METAL DETECTOR-the number 5 again.

Shaiwon72 the only reason I thought it was a little deeper with Michael than just Hank is because his lack of trust seems to PREDATE Hank with Max and Isabel--it was the hardest thing for him to trust them even them B4 Hank so it has some of us wondering why?

Shapeshifter where have you been hiding, busy posting on another thread well get back here right now LOL!!!! We need you!!!LOL!!!

I am sorry there are so many of us whoever brought up the way Liz links them together you also notice that Liz also linked the NA Eddie and Riverdog, they seem to TRUST her and not necessarily Max and Michal at least not at first anyway.

The funny thing about that 5 BEEPER thing is that when you see the part about the symbols on it, it looks like there are 6 symbols.

Okay here is another couple of things I noticed in S&B
did anyone else notice when the Sheriff is using the cover story for Michael it eerily sounds familiar to the YOSEMITE story with GC about drinking beer(beer guzzling) you and 2 of you buddies(in LN the 3 hunters) why is it brought up again in this context?
Anyone?

Also for one of those little extra clues that I am always looking for at the beginning when Grant is shuffling around with his bag I cannot read the top word but the bottom word says MATE. Whose mate? Isabels mate? She sure was attracted to him wasn't she? Just thought I would share.

By redhawk

10-07-2000, 08:07 AM

Hi!
So very many symbols. We are definitely swimming in symbols! Get with it writers, answer our questions and explain these symbols! Or at least give us a few more clues.

Okay, done with the rant.

Beeper symbols

Starstruck -Aha! Thanks for pointing that out.
book symbols

I didn't change the symbols. So those are still accurate.

-

The strange Z appears here in the text.
-

Check out the M or W with vertical line and 2 dots appearing between Michael and Tess' heads in the book and between Michael and Isabel. So maybe it is actually between Michael & Isabel and Tess & Max. Does it mean marriage or union. Hmm.

They also appear in the cave symbols.
Check out the one with the vertical line and 3 dots with a candycane symbol

The dream symbols (life-size cave symbols):

-

Here again you can see the line & 3-dot with candycane symbol.

So the question is "Why do they appear on the EA beeper?"

By ROStaFEHRian

10-07-2000, 09:51 AM

REDHAWK, you are amazing, as usual. Thank you for posting this series of screencaps of the metallic book, paper and sand symbols, as well as the beeper. I would be ever so grateful if you could repost this on the new SIGNS & SYMBOLS thread http://bbs.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/000381.html I have been trying to put this together and could not find a screencap of the pentagonal beeper/symbols in the Images section of the Crashdown. I wanted to continue with what I posted in the Part II Section of my post on that thread about ANCIENT LANGUAGES and repost this link

MUST SEE ALPHABET!!
http://babaev.narod.ru/script/etrus2.gif
(from this website: http://babaev.narod.ru/script/itali.html)

I noted the similarities in symbols, the metal book in particular, and note the writing under Max

although the majority are ubiquitous
Native American, Mayan, Incan (particualarly brickmakers identification marks), Olmec,
Celtic, Runic
Hobo signs http://slackaction.com/signroll.htm , etc
and can't be limited to one system. Or they belong to symbol systems such as alchemical, chemical, weather symbols, and many others, particularly MUSIC notations
MUST SEE! http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/CCRMA/Software/cmn/cmn-manual/cmn.html
Find in the index section and click on (or scroll down to) articulation and
scroll down to the Glossary section near the bottom and view the large section of
music symbols
Perhaps that is the whole point!

Do you recall this spiral (one of the most common symbols/pictographs in early civilizations, including Native American) on Maria's face?

That symbol and this picture, one of the very first Roswell pictures I ever saw, has remained in my mind. Probably coincidence, but one never knows with this creative team.
BTW-The screencap from S&B with Tess' ring is not great since it is mostly hidden, but there is a near full view near the end of her conversation with Max. It would be great if someone could get a good screencap of this because it is one of the 'glowing' symbols seen in the promo.

Rosta

By redhawk

10-07-2000, 11:18 AM

Hi! I'm back. Couldn't stay away for too long.

Hey GraceKel - I had a chance to finally put the Ask Not promo on my computer and I have somemore screen caps.

Okay:
A better pic of the EA beeper

Then the interesting thing is as you slo-mo from one shot to the next the video editor put in a rather interesting effect. OR is it NOT JUST an effect? It could relate back to what we were discussing about the eyesight of the Skins. (Did anyone else want to say Shirts aka tag football when Nasedo said that? HeHe. It wasn't just me. My husband finally had a chance to watch S&B last night and he blurts out "shirts" in the midst of the promo. Sorry that was so OT.) Anyway, back to the effect.
First, there is an interesting red-type of negative shot.

And then the camera moves in closer and has several shot in a blue-type negative with the 5 lights lighting up.

Now all of this is very fast. So it would only register in your subconscious unless you GraceKel the tape. Hmm. Interesting. Just a thought.

Rosta - I'd be happy to repost on the Signs & Symbols page. I've been trying to get a good shot of that ring on Tess eversince you talked about it on the Sci-Fi thread, but it always appears blurry. To me, it looks like one of those knot rings. You can see it again in the Ask Not promo when she waves her hand over Max's face. (grr... the dreamer in my emerges) What symbol do you think it resembles?

By HyperKitN

10-07-2000, 12:20 PM

Hey guys have I missed something about this ring Tess is wearing. Maybe you'll be able to see it better on Mondays eppy.

I wish that Nasedo would have gone over some of the symbols before he croaked. Hopefully he taught Tess so they will know what it all means. Maybe if they let us in on it we could tell what the evil communictor symbols might mean. I guess they wouldn't want that huh.

I don't even know why I posted. I had nothing of interest to add except to ask about the ring

By shapeshifter

10-07-2000, 01:05 PM

quote:Originally posted by HyperKitN:
...I wish that Nasedo would have gone over some of the symbols before he croaked. Hopefully he taught Tess so they will know what it all means.

...I don't even know why I posted. I had nothing of interest to add except to ask about the ring

Hey Hyper ! I think that's a VERY GOOD POINT! Tess will be the Rosetta Stone to Alien Culture for the Podsters...unless Nasedo comes back as a Daddogram...

And Mother Earth to Spaceship Zero: Time to start a new Thread!!

By redhawk

10-07-2000, 03:22 PM

Okay, the ring. It is still blurry, but I have another cap of it. I'm still leaning to it just being one of those knot rings.

Pic from the Crashdown.

Pic taken from one of Vidiot's promos.

It hurts my dreamer heart to have Tess taking up valuable space on my web area.
Anyway, these two pics may not be the same ring. Although I think this all happens on the same day. Hmm... just might have to wait 'til Monday for more info.

Darn, I just noticed those are on two different hands. Plus she changed clothes. grr... We may never know now. If they are going to give us clues, they really need to be a tiny bit more blatant. Maybe she'll wear that ring again. Or maybe there are two different Tess'. Ick. Oops, sorry, my dreamer heart spewed words out my mouth. Oh wait, I'm on the Liz Myth. thread. Nevermind. I'm rambling again.
See ya later.

By Qfanny

10-07-2000, 03:48 PM

quote:Originally posted by Melodious1:
....Kind of going along with the idea that Mike could possibly be evil, "turn to the darkside" or contest Max's 'rule' (if pushed hard enough) as some have mentioned. AND going along with the theories about Max & Tess' marriage being arranged to make an alliance (...) What if Michael (as well as his 'possible' sister, Tess) were actually part of a faction that was thrown together with Max's faction to unite against some common enemy (I assume, these Skins)? However, Michael's faction and Max's faction never truly saw eye-to-eye. This has rolled over into their "current selves". Possibly the former Michael wanting to rule, but had to settle with 2nd-in-command because his slightly older sister (the Queen of their faction, Tess) married Max, making him the unequivocal sovereign? [U]The alliance is doubly sealed by princess Isabel being betrothed to prince Mike?[/U] But could Michael eventually want to challenge Max for "King"? Possibly recreating some scenario from the past (which led to their demise)?

I know this theory is out there, I just thought I'd throw it out to see what y'all thought (I actually think it's been brought up before, but can't remember by who or on what thread).

Melodious
[/B]

Hey Meloudious1:

I do not believe that Michael is an evil alien as StephStephSteph argues. I heard about the cut scene that put Tess and Michael together as brother and sister. Frankly, I'm glad it was cut and I want to keep it buried on the floor. I do however, find your thoughts on the politics of podsters very interesting. You do seem to have something here with the "double ratification" of the treaty with the unions of Mi/Is and M/T.

I think that there is a real possibility that what you said is a correct background for the podster's histories.

I like your observations on the Max and Michael brotherly relationships with or without Liz. After watching Skin and Bones for the fifth time, I am no longer convinced that Liz is the second in command, Liz is the first in command. Everything revolves around Liz.

1) Skins appear after Liz returns home.
2) Liz was pursued by Whitaker to be her aide.
3) Liz solved Max's problem with CamdiumX.
4) Liz only sees the truth (vision from Max).

So, how about it folks? Is Liz more important to the podsters than Max???? Even thought Max is leader, he relies heavily on Liz.

By HyperKitN

10-07-2000, 03:57 PM

Redhawk-When I was looking at your pics right now I thought maybe the rings don't mean anything after all. Then I started thinking more about the pics and if it wasn't important would they have switched hands to let it be shown in full view while she waves her hand by Max's beautiful face.

I remember always noticing Michaels ring on his pointer finger then after awhile Maria had the same ring on her pointer finger. I figured maybe that was cause they were dating (in real life or just character wise) and she liked to wear it the same way.

I wish I could watch S&B's again, but my BF has my tape, darn it. At least it is almost Monday again.

By iansgurl

10-07-2000, 03:59 PM

quote:Originally posted by jen2themax:
Thanks, Zero! You always do a super job getting us started!

Go ZERO! Although, your not zero, your a hero!

By iansgurl

10-07-2000, 04:02 PM

quote:Originally posted by redhawk:
Hi! I'm back. Couldn't stay away for too long.

Hey [b]GraceKel - I had a chance to finally put the Ask Not promo on my computer and I have somemore screen caps.

Okay:
A better pic of the EA beeper

ehheheehehehhehe! Cute pics! http://www.geocities.com/cherrychika3/roswell.html

By Liz&Max ARE Roswell

10-07-2000, 04:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GraceKel:
Shaiwon72 the only reason I thought it was a little deeper with Michael than just Hank is because his lack of trust seems to PREDATE Hank with Max and Isabel--it was the hardest thing for him to trust them even them B4 Hank so it has some of us wondering why?

Hi everyone, coming out of lurkdom here...its a rainy day here, so I'm catching up on all the theories....fascinating as usual.

Very intering ideas about Michael's trust isuues. Perhaps it goes back to his past alien life. Perhaps he was betrayed then - perhaps by his "bethroded"...wouldn't that be interesting - maybe thats why when they emerged from the pods, he wouldn't take Is & Max's hands.

By RozRules	10-07-2000, 04:12 PM
Hey QFanny, I really like your idea that Liz is the 1st in command. And if she is in fact the 5 point on the V symbol it would make perfect sense that she is the leader! Only 2 more days till the next episode where hopefully we will get lots and lots more clues to devour.

By Dreamdancer	10-07-2000, 05:26 PM
Hey everyone I was just looking over Redhawks great picts and I just noticed if you go over to the Official Wb Roswell site you see those synbols on the faces of the stars. Just thought I would let you know.

By Shannon1979

10-07-2000, 05:52 PM

Hi I'm just a lurker putting in my two cents about the whole five thing. Weren't there five healing stones. Max, Isabel, Alex, Maria and Liz each had one. That also begs the question when the pod squad healed Nesedo at the end of Destiny where was the other stone? Does Liz still have it? If she does why didn't she give it back to Max or Isabel. Also with all these new characters showing up 4 humans to 4 aliens what if there will be one more couple needed to complete the 5 by 5 if you will. I'll stop rambling now just my two cents.

By Palomino

10-07-2000, 06:08 PM

About the symbols on the beeper :

Some of these symbols on the beeper (evil)match the ones Nasedo (good?) drew on the cave wall and the book (unknown which side it belongs to). This could mean several things:
1. These two species use a common language.
2. The skins are using the language of the SSers so that any alien evidence found by the humans will point to the SSers and the skins' race will undetected. Handy if you intend to make contact later as an inoscent race that trips upon humanity. You don't want evidence that you had already been here and killed people, lying around. Bad form for when you make first conact later and want them to trust you.
3. The skins are using beepers that are not their own technology, but captured SSer equipment. Maybe these where for the SSers to find the podsters, but had been captured (due to the crash?). Maybe there are lots more SSers out there or on their way (government in exile, refugees?)

It does seem odd that many of the symbols are used by both sides and apparently refer to the podster mission.

By Qfanny

10-07-2000, 07:11 PM

I don't think it's odd at all. Let me explain. We have many different languages on Earth. But many of them use the same alphabet. Even different alphabets have the same letters. I wish I knew more about languages to explain better, but the letter H in the Slavic alphabet sounds like our letter N. If the two sides orginated from the same planet, I can see that they would use the same symbolism.

By shapeshifter

10-07-2000, 07:22 PM

ZEROoooo! We're on page 12!

Hmmm...Palomino et al, I am thinking that the only alien-induced deaths that we know about have been from silver iron-ons, not star-shaped wounds (until Nasedo). And Nasedo was as much of a killer as Pierce who, according to the Ethics of Valenti, more or less deserved to die.

In the books the good guys turned out to be mistaken and the Evil Dude turned out to be doing the right thing with the morally wrong method.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that we really don't know much about the skins' morality. Maybe they are even pro-Liz...

And re the Tess ring: it looks a little Gargoylish to me.

By Melodious1

10-07-2000, 07:28 PM

quote:Originally posted by Qfanny:
I do not believe that Michael is an evil alien as StephStephSteph argues.

I also doubt he's an "evil" alien, however, I also doubt that Michael's (Tess'?) *alien self* was "a saint". But that just goes back of my general distrust of what the podsters used to be. I don't really trust either of the current alien factions.

quote:You do seem to have something here with the "double ratification" of the treaty with the unions of Mi/Is and M/T.

This is pure speculation, but what if Mike's (former) faction/race could have been entirely 'militarial' (is that a word?)? They had a strong army (but lacked leadership?). This would accentuate Michael's current 'talents' - killing as opposed to healing, someone - by his powers - more useful in offense as opposed to defense. Both Mike and Max's worlds were plagued by this common enemy (Skins?). Michael's faction reluctantly makes an alliance with Max's, hence the Twilo Allied forces are formed (thru marriage). However, this 'alliance' has an unsteady base (the friction between Mike/Max for control?) which begins to crumble the alliance. They can't hold it together and are defeated by the common enemy.

This opens the subject of Earth. Why was Earth chosen? There's the ROYAL FOUR, with their advanced human abilities, but could there have been a FIFTH individual responsible for the Podians choosing Earth? Or something (someone) that was (would be) on Earth that the Podians KNEW would be beneficial (crucial) in survival/success? They have no idea who (what) this is, they just know it/he/she is on Earth? There are (seemingly) many parallels between *aliens* and ancient (often mystical) cultures of Earth in Ros... cultures that 'read the stars' / believed in omens and prophecies, etc. Could there have been some kind of "podian prophecy" that declared Earth (and the FIFTH to be found there) VERY important in Podian victory? The V-shape (seen from Earth), including it's 5 stars - signaling 'the biological awakening' (a vision Liz sees in BD, which is the first time we see it I believe), the healing circle in BALANCE (with it's five pie slices). Even on the EA 'tracking devices there are FIVE sections. The most viable conclusion I can come up with is that the EA are hunting FIVE (not just the royal FOUR). But why? Could they have obtained info out of an actual knowledged Podian(by whatever means)? Hence, the EA have five sections on their tracking devices. These tracking devices ONLY activate when the said FIVE are together. But how do these 5-sectioned tracking device "recognize" the relevant five?? I haven't a clue. Is it reading a particular [familiar] energy pattern when the five are together?? Possibly an 'energy pattern' that only exists when the FIVE are put together? But WHY/how could it be 'familiar' if one of the five is quite possibly human? my brain hurts.

Anyway....Who would these said FIVE be? The first time we see these 'tracking devices' (seemingly) going crazy is at the end of DESTINY. Max, Tess, Michael and Isabel activated the orbs (Liz [u]was in the chamber[/u] when they did it). Now these EA are "among them" - surfaced conveniently almost around the exact time Liz came back to Roswell. Max states NOTHING happened in 3 months. Where was Liz in these 3 months? AWAY from the royal four in FL!! Coincidence?? Could these EA 'tracking devices' have been dead for three months, but these EA were already in Roswell and found four of the five? The podsters. The EA monitor *everything* the podsters do and who they do it with (Alex, Maria, their parents, etc) - minus Liz (because she's obviously not there). When Liz returns, however, the tracking devices go crazy again... hence, the EA possibly KNOW who the five are now or will as soon as they notice how much she's hanging around Max & crew or until they capture her and test her themselves? ....Yikes - I wonder what an EA "white room" is like??

quote:After watching Skin and Bones for the fifth time, I am no longer convinced that Liz is the second in command, Liz is the first in command. Everything revolves around Liz.

1) Skins appear after Liz returns home.
2) Liz was pursued by Whitaker to be her aide.
3) Liz solved Max's problem with CamdiumX.
4) Liz only sees the truth (vision from Max).

So, how about it folks? Is Liz more important to the podsters than Max???? Even thought Max is leader, he relies heavily on Liz.

I don't know if she's *more* important than Max; it's obvious she's very deeply involved in this mess. IMO, is something Harding basically allowed. If he really wanted her out of the picture, I think he could have done something about it. Especially if it was for the good of this "enslaved race". Despite the "leader's" objections, although Harding was crafty enough; he could have thought of *something* to tell Max to make him oblige. A good example, "She'll die if she stays with you." But he didn't do that, did he? If the Podians DID know about her, they're going thru great lengths keeping her *seperated* (yet not seperated) from the podsters at the moment. Could this be to protect her until the actual time for the Podian *strike* comes? Do they know how she's supposed to be useful? (because I don't have an idea, unless she actually IS the one whose supposed to "see the evil within") If the Podians did know about her could they (or some of them) MADE Max so he'd at least *recognize* Liz (and/or the FIFTH prophecied that would help them in 'the struggle')? Did they count on Max (the beloved leader) falling in love with her? Was he supposed to fall in love with her (could that have been prophecied as well)? This is all pure speculating.

Melodious

By Panola	10-07-2000, 07:30 PM
Hi! I've rewound SH and found a curious item. When Max & Liz leave the rooftop to find the orb, (look in the background as they leave) there's red triangle lights shaped in a v formation. I know that it's the wrong number (not 5), but the v formation is present as well as the triangle shape. It reminds me of the lights the tracking objects the "skins"???? have. Later, Panola

By shapeshifter

10-07-2000, 07:51 PM

quote:Originally posted by Panola:
Hi! I've rewound SH and found a curious item. When Max & Liz leave the rooftop to find the orb, (look in the background as they leave) there's red triangle lights shaped in a v formation. I know that it's the wrong number (not 5), but the v formation is present as well as the triangle shape. It reminds me of the lights the tracking objects the "skins"???? have. Later, Panola

Panolo, are we supposed to believe that the only reason you were rewatching SH was to look for a little red triangle?

Now I guess I'll have to go check it out for the symbols page of the archive website ( http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell ).

By Panola

10-07-2000, 08:17 PM

Hi again, Melodious1, very interesting idea. Then Nasedo would have said, "she doesn't belong here," or "she's not one of us" for reasons not obvious to us. Liz would have set off the beacons. I also wanted to comment on Micheal's tendancy to impulsively react. I have a son who is like that. When he was in kindergarden, he got into trouble for trying to come to the defense of another little boy whom he perceived as being bullied. You know the syndrome, "take up your sword! defend the innocent!" ahhh! Drives me crazy. However, back to the point, I have repeated endlessly, "Think before you act." This kind of response is a fighting, reactionary response thats close to primative. It would be useful in survivor, war, or defensive actions where the response needs to be speeded up. Maybe 2 of the aliens killed would have trained Michael how to react. When the ship crashed, the plan ended. Maybe Nasedo originally had only 1/4th of the training responsibilities and didn't have any other skills. Now it's a matter of "What to do?, What to do?" Also the book may be a key. When Redhawk put the pictures on the thread, the symbols reminded me of chemical, math formulas or a key of sorts (you hold the page up to the other symbols in the cave: then press the cut out symbols: and EUREKA!!! the door opens) little too creative!!!! Panola

By Panola	10-07-2000, 08:22 PM
Hi! Shapeshifter, Absolutely!!!! Panola

By 47born

10-07-2000, 08:24 PM

Qfanny wrote
"Exactly!!!!!!! I was reading somewhere that one of the cast members (Katy I think) said everything in the first episode is Important! Every word."

Question for you folks. In S&B VW plays the tape for Valenti. On the tape, Pierce says "...I think the sheriff is the key to everything"

Where is Valenti's wife, Kyles mother? Could she be the DNA donor?
Any ideas?

By LizParkerfan

10-07-2000, 09:13 PM

Hellow mythologist.

Liz has several very important stones in her possession.
1) The healing stone.
2) Grandma Claudia's book.

Has she even read the book? If her grandma was so important to her you think that she would have at least read a little bit of it.

I'm still trying to figure out what's so special about Florida. Oh well.

Remember is half

By LizParkerfan

10-07-2000, 09:14 PM

Ooops I meant to to say several important things not stones.

By Panola	10-07-2000, 09:32 PM
Hi all! Shapeshifter the symbols link said try later. Eventually I'll hope I'll be able to find out what the symbols are. Wouldn't be weird if Kyle's mom was alien. His grandpa wouldn't have had to leave home. I still think that Liz is the best choice since she has the visions, stones, & book; and she seems to have stepped outside of her personal fears. Somethings definitely going on. Panola

By Dreamdancer

10-07-2000, 09:44 PM

I thought that Max and Is had all the stones I did not know that Liz had kept one. Remeber in ID when Micheal is about to leave Max and Is give him the stones. So when did Liz keep one?
If that happened that does indeed make and itresting point of Liz connection with Na. Maybe the reason Riverdog was so intense about only trusting Liz was because she looked like someone he rembered from the past like Sheila Hubble. Or maybe there is a NA legend about Nasedo who had come from long ago. I know for a fact in Chippewa culture it speaks about the NEE-HOO-SAE or visitors who brought fire to the world by controling the power of lighting maybe that is also why dry lighting plays a roll.

By shapeshifter

10-07-2000, 11:36 PM

quote:Originally posted by Panola:
Hi all! Shapeshifter the symbols link said try later. Eventually I'll hope I'll be able to find out what the symbols are. Wouldn't be weird if Kyle's mom was alien. His grandpa wouldn't have had to leave home. I still think that Liz is the best choice since she has the visions, stones, & book; and she seems to have stepped outside of her personal fears. Somethings definitely going on. Panola

Panola, You have inspired me to continue in my manic phase of posting for our fearless leader Maxcedo, (not to mention that unlike last weekend my computer is not stuck in Safe Mode, I do not have the flu, and my daughter is home and so neither she nor the car is in danger). So I have some symbol theories up at http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell and happily have found the missing posts from my crash, so will continue in the next 2 weeks.

By Evid

10-07-2000, 11:59 PM

Hi Everyone:

I caught something that I don't think has been posted yet.

ALEX: Oh, look!"One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" is playing at the Revival Theater at the fairgrounds.

ISABEL: You know, Alex, maybe you should see what you can find out about cadmium-x.

ALEX: Sure. Look, there are4 showings on Saturday

Ok, so here we go with 1 and 4 again for the new season, so it looks like the writers are keeping this theory in. I noticed "REVIVAL," related to "ONE," and "SHOWING," related to "FOUR."

So what I was thinking is Liz is the one that got away, because she was revived and Liz is the one hiding, and the other 4 are "showing."
This does not make Liz Alien, it just tells us that she is connected to, or was ment to be a hybrid, but some how, maybe with help from GC, got away.

WOW, what you can get out of a few line in this show, I love it. Keep serching everbody the clues are back and it's are PLEASURE to find them.

Evid

By RosWool	10-08-2000, 12:53 AM
I'm soo lost i've not been on this thread forever ahhh what's going on Help me!!! peace carolyn

By Dreamdancer	10-08-2000, 05:04 AM
Wow-Evid that is so cool how you got that from just a view lines. Man I hope the writers do go that way with the Liz plot what the heck is she hiding now that she is back from Florida?

By Dreamdancer

10-08-2000, 08:08 AM

This on the second page is just not kosher.

bounce bounce

By shapeshifter

10-08-2000, 08:27 AM

quote:Originally posted by Evid:
Hi Everyone:

I caught something that I don't think has been posted yet.

ALEX: Oh, look![b]"One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" is playing at the Revival Theater at the fairgrounds.

ISABEL: You know, Alex, maybe you should see what you can find out about cadmium-x.

ALEX: Sure. Look, there are4 showings on Saturday

Ok, so here we go with 1 and 4 again for the new season, so it looks like the writers are keeping this theory in. I noticed "REVIVAL," related to "ONE," and "SHOWING," related to "FOUR."

WOW, what you can get out of a few line in this show, I love it. Keep serching everbody the clues are back and it's are PLEASURE to find them.

Evid

[/B]

Hi Evid! Over at the SciFi thread last night I posted a different take on the same scene:

quote:originally poste on the SciFi by moi:
Attention all Nemo-esque symbologists:

_____________________________

from S&B script:
ALEX: Oh, look! "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" is playing at the Revival Theater at the fairgrounds.

ISABEL: You know, Alex, maybe you should see what you can find out about cadmium-x.

ALEX: Sure. Look, there are 4 showings on Saturday.

________________

One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest is reminiscent of the White Room.

The Revival Theatre can refer to a spiritual or physical revival, or maybe it's a continuation of the Rocky Racoon/Calhoun reference.

And "4" showings seems significant.

We have different takes on this, Evid, but I think we agree that when re-watching, it stands out. I even got the feeling they put it in there for us clue freaks. Did you get that too?

P.S.: Nested quotes are disabled.

By GraceKel

10-08-2000, 08:45 AM

Oh REDHAWK I cannot believe you got that done so quickly--thanks for those beeper symbols what an INCREDIBLE JOB you have done for us!!!! THANKS SO MUCH!!!

Now what does it all mean folks?

EVID--I was just about to post on that very same subject about ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOOS NEST and the FOUR SHOWINGS but hec you beat me to it----but I also wanted to add that I noticed that word CUCKOO and Nasedo/Pierce came in with the song KRYPTONITE IF I GO CRAZY WILL YOU STILL CALL ME SUPERMAN.....and the guy saying look it s that CRAZY FBI GUY----I don't know but are they trying to tell us that Nasedo/Harding is NUTS? After all CUCKOOS NEST, the word NEST could also represent POD CHAMBER couldn't it? Just a thought.

By GraceKel

10-08-2000, 08:49 AM

Shapeshifter, Zero is waiting til we reach 300 posts on the thread because that is what the moderators want, it stresses the board more to create unnecessary threads rather than the amount of posts on threads, so they ask Zero to wait til we reach 300 which we are almost there.

By the way MELODIUS1---I agree with you that the HUMAN CONNECTION will be the ultimate most help to them.

By LisaBham	10-08-2000, 08:52 AM
Actually we want to keep the thread length to 250 (that's 10 pages) so I'm going to close this one now and ask that you start a new one. Thanks

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