Forums 4 Fans: The SciFi of Roswell : We continue our journey with Season 3 (Roswell (1))

Posted 10-09-2001 05:52 PM (IP Logged)
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MoonFire
Moderator
Roswell (1)

Reinstituting a thread that was a mainstay last season.
This thread is for all Science Fiction related discussion of the
Roswell Universe.
All Facets of the show and all seasons are open for discussion.
Post away and have fun bringing some insight into the SciFi aspects
of the show.
Thanks
Moon
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Reach for the stars,
They're a heartbeat away.
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Posted 10-09-2001 07:14 PM (IP Logged)
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plumeria
Moderator
Roswell (1)

All right -- I'll bite. I've heard LSS isn't doing this anymore, so
I'll give it a shot.
1. How did Max know by holding his hand up to a wall that there was
a cavern *under* the building?
2. Is that diamond originally from outer space? (Speaks for
carbon-based life forms on Antar, then.) Brings up the issue -- was
the crystal bar from Departure also diamond?
3. How did the FBI get something *that big* out of the cavern
overnight?
4. Mental contact with a baby causes him to pass out?
5. Can someone tell me what Tetrol (or whatever the "laundry powder"
substance was called) is?
Umm... that should hopefully get things started. Feel free to add
more issues. I know I'm not nearly as good at this as LSS was.
--------------------
Plu's Fic
Harry kissed him so deeply that it almost hurt, not on his lips but
in his heart. (IP4)
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Posted 10-10-2001 03:57 AM (IP Logged)
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cybercycle
Dedicated Fan

plumaria--in answer to your question 5 "What is Tetrol?"
tetrol \Tet"rol\, n. [Tetra- + benzol.] (Chem.) A hypothetical
hydrocarbon, C4H4, analogous to benzene; -- so called from the four
carbon atoms in the molecule.
from www.dictionary.com Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, ©
1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
also, this information

Posted by garnet on another board
Gas chromatographic/mass spectrometric analysis of diols and tetrols
from reactions of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon epoxides with
hemoglobin. J. Chromatogr., 562, 563-571 (1991).
ABSTRACT. Epoxides and diolepoxides are the typical ultimate
carcinogens arising from polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH).
Tumor initiation presumably occurs via reaction of these oxiranes
with DNA, but we and others have shown that oxirane-protein adducts
are useful as dosimeters for PAH exposure and metabolism. Reaction
with both DNA and protein occurs usually between a benzylic site on
the eopxide and a nucleophilic site on the macromolecule. Both human
and mouse hemoglobin (Hb), for example, form carboxylate esters from
benzo[a]pyrene antidiolepoxide which release the BAP tetrol upon
hydrolysis. Quantiation of this tetrol forms the basis for
dosimetry. We have now evaluated both electron ionization (EI) and
negative-ion chemical ionization (NICI) GC/MS methods for analysis
of TMS derivatives of a series of PAH alcohols including styrene
diol (SD) benzo[e]pyrene (BEP) diol and tetrol, cyclopentapyrene
(CPP) diol, BAP-4,5-diol, chrysene tetrol, benzo[a]anthracene
tetrols I and II, and syn- and anti-BAP teetrols. NICI is the more
sensitive method for all comounds except SD. Detection limits range
from 1 fmole for CPP diol to 1 pmole for BEP diol. The EI detection
limit for SD is 60 fmole. PAH alcohols related to the compounds
listed above were observed following hydrolysis of Hb that had been
reacted with PAH epoxides in vitro. BAP and chrysene tetrols were
observed following hydrolysis of Hb isolated from human smokers'
blood. Hydrolysis of styrene-oxide treated Hb in O-18 water revealed
at least two mechanisms of ester hydrolysis, including the BAL1
pathway.
Login Name: laughingdragon | Joined: Oct 2001 | Posts: 159

Posted 10-10-2001 04:52 AM (IP Logged)
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Ken McRee
Dedicated Fan

quote:
1. How did Max know by holding his hand up to a wall that there
was a cavern *under* the building?
Probably all he sensed was the giant metal door, which shouldn't
have been there if it was just a plain store in the middle of
nowhere. In other words, a place worth investigating later.
quote:
2. Is that diamond originally from outer space?
Probably directly from Antar.
quote:
(Speaks for carbon-based life forms on Antar, then.)
Well, we have both diamonds and sand (carbon and silicon), but we
happen to be carbon-based. So I'm not sure that means anything one
way or the other.
More likely reason they're carbon-based: they're so much like us,
all protestations to the contrary
quote:
Brings up the issue -- was the crystal bar from Departure also
diamond?
In so much as they are real diamonds, could be. It seems unlikely
that the rich woman would own what she thinks is a diamond without
having it appraised as such. So maybe it's a diamond with something
else inside, or something specific about the fissures in the diamond
that cause it to act as a key (although such a key would be
fragile).
Kinda reminds me of the control crystals from the Superman movie
quote:
3. How did the FBI get something *that big* out of the cavern
overnight?
Haven't you ever watched The X-Files?
And was it really a single night? (The police tape was still up.)
quote:
4. Mental contact with a baby causes him to pass out?
New experience -- who knows how it works?
//Ken
Joined: Aug 00 | Posts: 166

Posted 10-10-2001 06:29 AM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by cybercycle:
plumaria--in answer to your question 5 "What is Tetrol?"
tetrol \Tet"rol\, n. [Tetra- + benzol.] (Chem.) A hypothetical
hydrocarbon, C4H4, analogous to benzene; -- so called from the
four carbon atoms in the molecule.
from www.dictionary.com Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, ©
1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
also, this information

Posted 10-11-2001 04:17 AM (IP Logged)
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Qfanny
Obsessed Fan

Well, I'm not LSS. I won't even pretend to be... But I too noticed
some motifs worthy of discussion.
UFO Saucer
Did anyone find it strange that the ship looked exactly like a giant
pie plate??? No really, you'd think with all the technology that
Antar must have the ship would look entirely different. Particularly
compared to the granolith from season two. Come on folks-- let's use
some imagination. Why did Max assume that the ship was big. I would
think that if it had crashed, it would be a bucket bolts? What
inside knowledge did he have. Did he know the ship was undamaged??
Isn't the whole point of the show is that the ship crashed -
something Isabel reminds Max of in the same episode. The ship even
reacted to Max holding the diamond up in front of it. Although this
was mere speculation, I believe that the ship works fine. Which
leads me to wonder who fixed it? What do you think?
As plumeria has pointed out, it is odd how Max knew where to find
the entrance to the UFO storage. A ship that size would not be easy
to move around or hide. A favorite theory of mine is that the ship
did exist but in the basement of the UFO Center. Hide in plan
sight... But how did the ship get out without anyone noticing? Was
there another door that Max did not see? Is it really still there,
just put into a different diminsion?
The Diamond
I believe that the diamond is not a mere diamond. In fact, it's
probably not carbon at all, but some otherworldly element. Perhaps
CandiumX?? Given it's size and fame, it's amazing that it passed for
so long without raising a question from scientists and jewelers
alike. The fake diamond (long time posters will remember my switched
orb theory) was swapped for this one. Max's ability to manipulate
molecules could have produced a suitable swap. Perhaps the owner
finally has the "real" thing, and if nothing else, Liz's spite!
Family
Try to think of the family unit in terms of social science. Is Max's
attachment to his son more a result from his alien heritage or his
human upbringing. Here we see a son reaching out across the great
beyond to his father, and a son deciding to leave the family nest.
Remember, in Season One Michael had passion for searching out a real
father. Max and Liz even talk in a joking manner about their future
family. And on the side lines, we see Isabel's new mate and Michael
still has Maria for a girlfriend. Alien attachments to their loved
ones, their family's, pseudo or otherwise, seem to be more necessary
than human. Perhaps this is the underlying force that the Antarians
are relying on to bring them home.
Well, I've said enough for no. I've only seen the episode once, so
please correct me if I got something wrong.
This thread is shipper friendly, so everyone is encouraged to post.
--------------------
From Nebraska
Qfanny/MOB14
Liz is not an alien
And there is no spam in responsibility!
Joined: Jul 00 | Posts: 1540

Posted 10-11-2001 10:12 AM (IP Logged)
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Apolo
Loyal Fan

I've been thinking about how did the FBI get the spaceship out of
there too, but two things come to mind:
1) How did they get it in there? Even if they reconstructed it
there, there must be any other secret hall or SOMETHING in there.
Max should have explored the place, but he couldn't, first because
of the police and then because of his dad. Now he can't go back
there until he's 21.
2) Maybe it wasn't the FBI who took the spaceship out there. Maybe
it wasn't even the FBI who reconstructed it. Maybe someone else
stole it and hid it there. The words "other" and "shapeshifter" come
to mind....
Germán
[ 10-11-2001: Message edited by: Romeo ]
--------------------
To smack or not to smack.. that is the question.
Login Name: Germán | Joined: Aug 2001 | Posts: 543

Posted 10-11-2001 11:58 AM (IP Logged)
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plumeria
Moderator
Roswell (1)

Hey, Qfanny! Good to see you back here.
About the diamond -- It had to be real diamond, or at least
structurally enough alike to fool professional gemologists. I'm sure
a stone *that* large would have been scrutinized by every big-name
gem professional in the business, to ascertain that it was a genuine
item. (which is pretty much the point Ken made. )
What's so special about diamond (or similar) that just holding it up
to a spaceship (didn't even need to be plugged in, like the
EOTW/Departure rod) will cause it to react?
And -- not only is the spaceship a stereotypical shape , it was
whole. I sincerely doubt it was that intact after crashing to Earth.
German, you have a point that someone else might have put the ship
there, but I'm inclined to disagree -- it was on *government*
property, after all, and I would imagine that Nacedo (or any other
alien/shapeshifter) would have wanted to put their ship in the hands
of the government.
Thank you, cybercycle, for listing the properties of Tetrol.
--------------------
Plu's Fic
Harry kissed him so deeply that it almost hurt, not on his lips but
in his heart. (IP4)
Joined: May 2000 | Posts: 6608

Posted 10-11-2001 05:49 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan

Okay, here's a few notes on the sci fi that I took during my second
watch:
Max is able to determine that there is something worth exploring
(space? metal? alien stuff?) behind the wall of the Convenience
store.
Max takes out the security camera without the Convenience store
guy noticing.
He cuts steel(?) with his bare hand (and melts it back again).
He opens the safe-type lock (sign of stronger powers?).
He melts the gun to nothing.
About the space ship disappearing: Could it have flown away after he
activated it? The yellow glow persisted after he left.
And about the diamond key, Mrs. Browning said that not all of the
diamonds were hers. Maybe whoever owns that one knows it's not just
a diamond.
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2505

Posted 10-12-2001 06:06 AM (IP Logged)
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Apolo
Loyal Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by shapeshifter:
He melts the gun to nothing.
I wonder when did he learn to do this? I think he's never done it
before, or at least we've never seen him doing it in any episode.
Did he learn to do it during the summer?
So what is this power about exactly? He combines the molecules of
the gun with the molecules of the floor? Because it's not like he
adds the gun to the floor, because this one would grow. It's like if
you wanted to melt a glass into another one, this would end up being
twice its size. That's not what happened with the car's floor, it's
still the same. He combines the molecules like Robert Patrick
combined himself in T-2? (I love that movie)
I guess Max is the one who practices the most with his powers and
tries to improve them. Michael and Isabel have learned new powers
but they're all somehow similar. The force shield and now this
melting ability are really interesting gifts for Max.
Germán
[ 10-12-2001: Message edited by: Apolo ]
--------------------
To smack or not to smack.. that is the question.
Login Name: Germán | Joined: Aug 2001 | Posts: 543

Posted 10-12-2001 08:51 AM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

Hi everyone. I'll definitely miss LSS's intros, but thanks plumeria
for starting us off. Of course when I finally get on Fan Forum, I
have like a minute before I have to jet, so quickly:
About the spaceship: In Summer of '47, Hal shows Michael the metal
that "bends back" on its own. Is it possible that the ship is
self-healing? Perhaps all the government did was collect all the
pieces and the ship fused back together on its own. It's an
out-there theory, but so's the government having the ability to
rebuild it. AND, if the government has had a piece of actual
technology in their possession all these years, I would expect them
to have acquired new technology from studying it, ala Men in Black.
When will we see it?
Also, regarding the message from Max's son. I'm still not convinced
the baby was real, but if it was, we are talking about a time
paradox. Max's son contacted him just a month or two after being
born? No matter how fast hybrid alien babies gestate, it should
still be a baby, and wouldn't be aware of being in any danger yet.
Maybe the granolith took Tess back in time as well as space, and
Max's son is now an adult.
Remember when Larek said that vast quantities of resources are
needed to make the connection with Brody? Wouldn't that also be
necessary for Max's son to contact him? Or is it the father/son bond
that makes it possible?
More questions than answers. Go Roswell.
[ 10-12-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ]
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 524

Posted 10-13-2001 02:40 PM (IP Logged)
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Apolo
Loyal Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by Luna G:
About the spaceship: In Summer of '47, Hal shows Michael the metal
that "bends back" on its own. Is it possible that the ship is
self-healing?
Great point. I don't know if the ship actually reconstructed itself,
but maybe the fact that it is self-healing helped the goverment to
reconstruct it.
quote:
Originally Posted by Luna G:
Remember when Larek said that vast quantities of resources are
needed to make the connection with Brody? Wouldn't that also be
necessary for Max's son to contact him? Or is it the father/son
bond that makes it possible?
Maybe the father/son bond is a good explanation for this. Or maybe
we can think of that Larek is not Antarian, he's from another
planet, is he? So it's a different race. Maybe Antarians have easier
ways to communicate to other worlds.
Or maybe it's just that the whole baby thing is fake, which is a
possibility I never stop considering. I Tess but I remember her in
Departure and all those possibilities come to mind.
Germán
[ 10-13-2001: Message edited by: Apolo ]
--------------------
To smack or not to smack.. that is the question.
Login Name: Germán | Joined: Aug 2001 | Posts: 543

Posted 10-13-2001 03:42 PM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Loyal Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by plumeria:
What's so special about diamond (or similar) that just holding it
up to a spaceship ... will cause it to react?
When humans want to record information, they use videotapes, CD's
etc.; when aliens want to record something, there's a tradition
going back to Superman at least, that they somehow store the data in
a crystal. So, this time the crystal is a diamond. (As usual,
details of how the information is stored are not given. That is not
what the story is about. But there really are developmental 3-D data
storage schemes involving crystals and optical read/write
mechanisms. The crystal-sensing in the story appears to be a takeoff
on that.) Apparently the ship has some readout mechanism that
recognized the coded data in the diamond as Max held it up -- just
being in the room (or maybe within line-of-sight?) was enough.
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Posted 10-13-2001 04:21 PM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Loyal Fan

Besides tetrol, described above, there is tetryl, which is
explosive. I couldn't tell which one Max named, but apparently it's
dangerous enough either way. [

Posted earlier on the wrong thread, in
my confusion over the new boards]
Joined: Dec 99 | Posts: 977

Posted 10-13-2001 04:47 PM (IP Logged)
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Anla
Crazy Fan

About how the FBI (or whoever it was) got the ship out of there so
quickly and without anyone noticing, I just assumed that there was a
tunnel of some sort attached to the room where the ship was stored,
either hidden or just not something noticed in the quick time Max
was down there. After all, the ship had to get down there in the
first place, and it wouldn't have fit down the stairs. Of course, it
could have been brought in originally in pieces and reassembled in
the room, but that doesn't feel right to me. It wouldn't make much
sense to have the only entrance to a storage space with something so
important, something that I'm sure scientists were studying, be
through a convenience store. So I figured they moved it out through
that tunnel.
--------------------
"And So It Begins" - Babylon 5
Candy * Shimmer * Boarderlander * Friendshipper
Joined: Jan 2001 | Posts: 2289

Posted 10-13-2001 05:53 PM (IP Logged)
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Qfanny
Obsessed Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by Apolo:
Maybe the father/son bond is a good explanation for this. Or maybe
we can think of that Larek is not Antarian, he's from another
planet, is he? So it's a different race. Maybe Antarians have
easier ways to communicate to other worlds.
Or maybe it's just that the whole baby thing is fake, which is a
possibility I never stop considering. I Tess but I remember her
in Departure and all those possibilities come to mind.
Germán
[ 10-13-2001: Message edited by: Apolo ]
I am so glad to see a Tess fan on this thread. Usually all the
threads I post on are dominated by one point of view... But I like
what you have to say about the father-son connection... Now, I've
only seen the episode once and forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't
the baby projecting his birth before he was born?? The problem with
this, and it's been discussed before with the Brody/Larek
interaction, is FTL (faster than light) travel... In order for this
Max/Son connection to work, FTL would have to be so fast that the
message arrives in the future. I see a paradox coming.
Also about the diamond, Tess' letter from Nasedo stated that diamond
was the only way she could communicate with "home." I don't think it
said anything about the diamond being the key to the craft. It was
only when Max had held up the diamond that the craft started to
react... Strange that Nasedo would leave this out, unless he just
didn't want Tess to know...
Still, the fact that Tess did know about the diamond would give more
weight and creditiblity to the idea that Spot was a mindwarp or
illision. If Tess was really sick with pregnancy complications -
then why didn't she mention the letter to Max at that time?
Now - going back to the giant pie plate -
Could it be cloaking itself??? Hiding in plain site. We all agree
that it would be difficult for the ship to moved by people and
machines. The only apparent entrance is the hidden door Max opens
and shuts with his powers.
And melting the gun -
I did not question this ability. It would seem to fall inline with
Max causing the heater to short out in Departure.
Nice reading as always.
--------------------
From Nebraska
Qfanny/MOB14
Liz is not an alien
And there is no spam in responsibility!
Joined: Jul 00 | Posts: 1540

Posted 10-13-2001 07:41 PM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Loyal Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by Qfanny:
Now - going back to the [ship] - Could it be cloaking itself???
I wondered about that too. But if it had still been there, in the
same place as before except invisible, I think Max or his dad might
have bumped their heads on it -- they looked taller than the
stanchions it had been resting on. (But maybe I misjudged the angles
-- see what you think.)
I think there could easily have been other doors we didn't get to
see very well. But if so, from outside they must have been at least
thinly covered with earth, since there was nothing but the little
store to be seen on the site when Max and Liz first viewed it. If
the ship had been removed through such hidden doors, you would think
it would be noticeable that the earth had been disturbed, even if it
was replaced carefully afterwards.
Another farther-out possibility, but hinted at since episode 1, is
that the aliens somehow have access to higher spatial dimensions, so
they (or their artifacts?) could get in or out of a 3-dimensional
enclosure without using doors. (But if so, does Max know how to
handle this power? He could have escaped jail that way, or evaded
capture in the first place. Or better yet, he could have got into
the underground hangar to look around without going through the
store upstairs....)
[ 10-13-2001: Message edited by: Nemo ]
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Posted 10-14-2001 10:36 AM (IP Logged)
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Qfanny
Obsessed Fan

Nemo - I think you're right to say that Max and Dad would have
bumped heads on the UFO had the ship been cloaked. I have been able
to tape the show finally, and rewatching it, the demonsions just
don't look right for the ship to be cloaked....
There is something "odd" about the underground storage. It seems to
be 10 larger when the ship is there than when the ship isn't there.
Even if there were other doors are another access to the chamber, it
still leaves a big question on who would have moved the ship, and
who would have noticed.
I don't know if you've heard the theory in the mountains that there
are lots of underground bunker storages... (I've heard the same
thing for UFO/aliens too.) Based on that idea, maybe there is a
means of transportation from one storage facility to another,
underground.
Do you think that the FBI agent knew what Max found? Perhaps the
FBI's concern was proteching an access point for the network of
undergound storage facilities. National security.
Laundry detergent indeed!
I think that this could be a possiblity. That the FBI agent didn't
even know for himself what was there. He just knew that Max had
found a way into the secret government facility.
--------------------
From Nebraska
Qfanny/MOB14
Liz is not an alien
And there is no spam in responsibility!
Joined: Jul 00 | Posts: 1540

Posted 10-14-2001 09:04 PM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Loyal Fan

Qfanny, a network of underground passages large enough for that
spaceship seems less plausible to me than some of the other
alternatives. (In the Northwest we have some notable railroad
tunnels, and building them was a big deal. Also I think they need
considerable maintenance.)
There's a lot of mystery. We don't know how much the FBI agent
knows, or whether he's connected with the guy who intimidated
Michael, or who moved the ship. Maybe it moved itself, in reponse to
Max's crystal.
Joined: Dec 99 | Posts: 977

Posted 10-15-2001 11:11 AM (IP Logged)
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Juniper
Dedicated Fan

I know I'm awfully late catching up but I just saw the episode
Friday night.
Luna took the words out of my hands about the "liquid metal"
properties found at the crash site.
As for the storage facility, I have a hard time believing that a
discovery of this magnitude would not be under heavily armed
government guard. Though I do accept Qfanny's "hide in plain sight"
theory, I also think that such a thing in the posession of the US
goverment would not simply be stored away for later use -- it would
be researched to death.
This is all leading me to the thought that perhaps it is not the
government who has current ownership of this ship, and that the
agent was not really an FBI agent, but a representative of another
order guarding the ship. Not to say there's another alien
contingency, but perhaps a privately-backed entity or a
multinational agency.
Another thing that came to mind in this episode was how often this
show takes us "underground." We've got the hidden/cloaked pod
chamber and granolith. We've got the domed house in the desert.
We've got the sewers in New York. We've even got the crystal cave
where Kyle and Alex were trapped. We've got bunkers and Laurie
buried in the ground and assorted Native American caves. Now,
underground storage.
Since I can't mention Qfanny only once in a post, I have to also
comment on the idea of Max communicating with his son. It sounds
like you assume that telepathy is bound by physics; that travel at
the speed of light would somehow prohibit their communicating in a
timely fashion. As apparently this forum's resident metaphysician, I
have to say that the mind works in mysterious ways, and great
distances don't seem to weaken psychic bonds. Liz was able to reach
Max in New York -- and she's human. His son, being as alien as the
offspring of two hybrids could be (smirk), would no doubt be even
better at doing the long-distance thing.
But why the negative physical reaction/near-drowning? There's
something inherently bad and weird about that. He could have easily
just had some kind of flash or freakout, but that? Hmm. Strange
choice. I am suspicious that there would be harm that results from
his son trying to get his help.
"Letter from Nasedo?" "Book of Destiny?" "Cheat Sheet from Space?"
"Cliff's Notes of Conspiracy?" Are we yanking it out of our a** now
or what?
I also have to say that this is, I believe, and correct me if I'm
wrong, the first time the planet's name has been spoken.
So this post turned out to be light on the science and heavy on the
fiction, but that's par for my course. See you in a few days for
Ep2.
Edited because I had a little time on my hands.
[ 10-15-2001: Message edited by: Juniper ]
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Posted 10-15-2001 04:35 PM (IP Logged)
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Ken McRee
Dedicated Fan

Regarding the gun, I figure he vaporized it. (Control over matter is
pretty darn useful!) As for
quote:
In order for this Max/Son connection to work, FTL would have to be
so fast that the message arrives in the future. I see a paradox
coming.
I believe it has been shown/theorized that information can travel
faster than light. One way goes something like this:
There's a basic principle that when you split a particle, you get
two opposite halves. Then there's the good old quantum mechanics
principle about a particle not having a true state until you
actually look at it.
So you split a particle and separate the two halves by some
arbitrary distance (i.e. real far). The moment you determine or
coerce (I'm fuzzy on that part) one half to a particular state, the
other half instantaneously attains the opposite state, no matter how
apart they are. That's a simple binary message, which could be
aggregated into actual information.
Having said that, as Juniper says, no one really knows how telepathy
works, so you can use it to solve various thorny story problems.
It's common in science fiction for it to work the same regardless of
distance. In Star Wars for example, Obi-Wan knows when Alderaan is
destroyed, Leia knows that Luke is OK, and so forth.
//Ken
Joined: Aug 00 | Posts: 166

Posted 10-15-2001 07:44 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan

Alright! Great theories, guys! LSS would appreciate it, I'm sure!
Luna G and Apolo, I feel much better about the Pie Plate now that
you've given me an explanation or two. :biggrin: Hal's scrap was in
the back of my mind, but I hadn't yet formulated a theory out of it
(or is that a hypothesis? Nevermind, we won't go there with that
discussion again! ).
Nemo, I was also thinking about the crystal as a coding device, but
didn't realize that Superman was the original fictional use of it.
--Probably was in the back of my mind from my Comic Book days.
Anla, Qfanny, Nemo, et al, Putting together all of your ideas, I am
inclined to think that the Diamond enabled the Ship to go into
another time dimension (the yellow light being a little like the
Greenus' light) except that Max seemed so disappointed that it
wasn't there. But then maybe it was Cloaked because Human Dad was in
the room? Maybe the Cloaking is in another Time Dimension, Nemo, so
they wouldn't bump their heads.
And Anla! Check out the Book thread now at
http://www.forums4fans.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=010348#000005
. Is there any chance you still have the Compare N Contrast Intro
you wrote? If so, Puh-lease post it over there!
And speaking of Laundry Detergent, Qfanny, how weird is that in the
light of current Terrorism???
Fortunately UPN didn't make them air it some other time like WB
might have. Why punish the writers for being relevant?
quote:
Originally Posted by Juniper:
But why the negative physical reaction/near-drowning? There's
something inherently bad and weird about that.
ITA!!! After all, this is Tess's kid. Okay, so Tess had potential to
be good, but it seems that Destiny rules in that girl's life, and
her Destiny was to betray everyone.
But as to the Sci Fi of the Baby Communication, I am thinking that
if Antar's orbit and rotation are faster, then Junior could be about
12 by now, and there might be an instantaneous means of
communication.
Ken McRee, thanks for the vaporization of the gun explanation. It
didn't look that way, but it makes sense to me.
[ 10-15-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ]
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2505

Posted 10-16-2001 05:22 AM (IP Logged)
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plumeria
Moderator
Roswell (1)

Before I get started with my post, does anyone else want to take
over as head of this thread (replacing LSS), posting the initial
sci-fi aspects of an ep for discussion? I can continue hobbling
along the best I can, but I am more than willing to donate the spot
to one of you, if anyone's interested. Either post here or PM me and
let me know.
Oh man, I love this thread. I'm remembering why -- you guys have
such great scientific theories that I would never come up with....
Great catch on the self-healing metal from Sof47. Would explain why
the ship didn't look all dented, although does that allow the pieces
to *go* back together, or just to smooth out existing pieces?
About Max's reaction to his son -- It seemed like not only did he
pass out, but he started to get hypothermia. Did anyone else think
that? Maybe it just took all his resources to make that connection,
even though it was *made* to him. The thing is, when Isabel had a
mental connection thrust upon her (TSAP, Surprise) -- she had
nightmares, she got a headache, but she didn't have the same
draining reaction. Or would she have reacted as Max had, if Tess (in
Surprise) had held onto the connection? That, too, was an
alien-alien bond, although not a genetic one. Sorry -- I'm probably
drifting into CHAD territory with this one.
Shapeshifter, interesting comparison with the Tetrol/laundry
detergent/current political situation. Yeah, I'm glad they didn't
pull that. The thing with the Tetrol -- although we got that
scientific breakdown of what it *is* -- what does it *do*?
--------------------
Plu's Fic
Harry kissed him so deeply that it almost hurt, not on his lips but
in his heart. (IP4)
Joined: May 2000 | Posts: 6608

Posted 10-16-2001 01:32 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by plumeria:
Before I get started with my post, does anyone else want to take
over as head of this thread (replacing LSS), posting the initial
sci-fi aspects of an ep for discussion? I can continue hobbling
along the best I can, but I am more than willing to donate the
spot to one of you, if anyone's interested. Either post here or PM
me and let me know. ...
Plu, maybe we can hobble together for this week's ep. on this
thread? Then, if the board bugs get exterminated, maybe we will fill
up a thread between eps.
quote:
...About Max's reaction to his son -- It seemed like not only did
he pass out, but he started to get hypothermia. Did anyone else
think that? Maybe it just took all his resources to make that
connection, even though it was *made* to him. The thing is, when
Isabel had a mental connection thrust upon her (TSAP, Surprise) --
she had nightmares, she got a headache, but she didn't have the
same draining reaction. Or would she have reacted as Max had, if
Tess (in Surprise) had held onto the connection? ...
I think it drew him in like the Collective Consciousness in the
books so that he was no longer aware of his surroundings and his
need to tread water. Also, Liz says that the water is 'so obviously
freezing.' This would explain the hypothermia.
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2505

< Posted 10-16-2001 08:05 PM (IP Logged)
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plumeria
Moderator
Roswell (1)

Well, since this thread title is "SciFi" in general, and not
ep-specific, we'll just continue on here, for a while.
So... Michael, the Guys, and the Great Snapple Caper
God, what a title.
Anyway, not too much SciFi here. The things I saw:
Michael using his powers to:
Break into the office
Cause the ceiling to come down (I think he used his powers, anyway)
Fix the videotape
Max using his powers to:
Fly a hanglider.
Cause a painted mural to wave and talk to Liz.
So -- pretty fluffy ep, sci-fi wise. Or did I miss something?
--------------------
Plu's Fic
Harry kissed him so deeply that it almost hurt, not on his lips but
in his heart. (IP4)
Joined: May 2000 | Posts: 6608

Posted 10-17-2001 09:55 AM (IP Logged)
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Juniper
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by plumeria:
So -- pretty fluffy ep, sci-fi wise. Or did I miss something?
I don't think you missed anything, but I have some quick thoughts on
the moving mural. I assume only Liz saw that. That's an interesting
twist. He essentially created a hallucination for only her to see.
How does that compare with Tess' powers to mindwarp and 'make people
see things that aren't there?'
Tess seemed to be able to create mass illusions -- effects that
everyone in the room would see. While we primarily thought of that
as a mind power, perhaps that too falls under the category of
physical manipulation of matter and not mind power. (If everyone
sees it, does it exist? What is that, phenomenology? epistemology?
existentialism? can you see it's been a long time since college
philosophy?)
As for Max's cartoon, the power would seem to be only over Liz's
mind (if the others in the room did not see the same thing, then it
seems safe to say that was not a physical manifestation). But maybe
that's the real question -- was that a physical or mental trick?
Joined: Oct 2000 | Posts: 164

Posted 10-17-2001 09:55 AM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

Here's a question left over from last week: Did Max make a real
diamond to replace the key that he and Liz stole? Why not make some
more and solve all of his (and Michael's and the Valenti's)
financial problems? Is that a CHAD? That's probably a CHAD. Not much
sci fi in this episode.
OK, here's something. No flashes between Max and Liz while kissing.
Does it mean anything? Has their "connection" been weakened by the
events of the past year?
Did anyone else manage to watch both Roswell and Smallville last
night? This is a quote from Smallville, no joke.
"Your parents weren't from around here"
"Where were they from?"
[Clark's dad looks meaningfully to the night sky]
I was seriously waiting for them to show the V-constellation. Okay,
done snarking. Go Roswell.
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 524

Posted 10-17-2001 10:10 AM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

Juniper: That's interesting. I kind of assumed that everyone could
see the mural if they had been looking at it--a sign that Max wasn't
being as careful as he should be.
But, if he's actually creating an image that only Liz sees as
reality, I think it qualifies as a mind warp.
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 524

Posted 10-17-2001 01:50 PM (IP Logged)
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plumeria
Moderator
Roswell (1)

That hadn't occurred to me either, that Max's manipulation of the
mural was purely for Liz, and thus more of a mindwarp. Hmmmm.
Ok, business question -- would anyone mind if a West-Coast poster
took over as thread mom? It would mean earlier-timezoned posters
would have to wait a little bit to post here. Or I could open the
thread for people's initial reactions, but leave the major
discussion for after the Threadmom has

Posted. Other suggestions are
welcome.
--------------------
Plu's Fic
Harry kissed him so deeply that it almost hurt, not on his lips but
in his heart. (IP4)
Joined: May 2000 | Posts: 6610

Posted 10-17-2001 02:16 PM (IP Logged)
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Rebecca
Loyal Fan

I don't think the waving mural in the CD neccessarily implies a mind
warp. I think Max could arrange the molecules in the wall to be
configured any which way he wished. Yes, he'd be risking a patron
catching a glimpse, but I've noticed he's opting a bit more often
now to use his powers in the open. Each time he does and doesn't get
caught is enboldening him a little more. I remember when just a look
from the local Sherrif used to make him nervous. Now he gets
arrested out of state and he's a cool cucumber. So, seeing this
trend, I think it supports the idea that the waving mural wasn't a
mind warp.
Next, was it telekenesis that Max used to get the hang glider off
the ground? That would work for me, because we know that he can move
objects, like Hubble's gun at the end of UFO Convention. Now maybe I
have to watch the glider scene again, but just seconds after Max and
Liz's feet left the ground you see their hair being blown by wind.
Are we then to believe that Max can manipulate molecules in such a
way that can affect basic atmospheric conditions? Or shall we just
chalk that wind up to an oportune breezy evening?
What was your take on that?
[ 10-17-2001: Message edited by: Rebecca ]
Joined: Dec 1999 | Posts: 811

Posted 10-17-2001 03:01 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan

***Typing clandestinely at work (Max's influence)***
Liz seemed nervous about the images on the wall. I presumed all
could see if they looked. Also, it was slightly reminiscent of the
heart in blind date.
It seemed Max set the necessary air in motion around the glider.
Will think about this more later.
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2506

Posted 10-17-2001 03:11 PM (IP Logged)
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Juniper
Dedicated Fan

I'm on the West Coast and never get around to visiting the thread
until il Wednesday a.m. at the earliest anyway, so it makes no
difference to me who starts what.
I'm thinking only Liz could see the cartoon because SURELY others in
the restaurant would have noticed. The guys at her table, for
example, since she was so obviously distracted by something
fascinating on the wall. Max's newfound confidence is not something
I necessarily associated with being careless about using his powers
in public. We see both a new Max and a(nother) new Liz so far --
both are bolder and more righteous.
I just figured that King Max now has the four winds at his disposal.
"I can control the wind, but I fail to notice Liz's
dad sitting in the pool of light over there..."
Leave the diamond issue alone. It falls under the category of "can
they change dollar bills to twenties and if so, why wouldn't they?"
Joined: Oct 2000 | Posts: 164

Posted 10-17-2001 03:35 PM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by Rebecca:
Are we then to believe that Max can manipulate molecules in such a
way that can affect basic atmospheric conditions? Or shall we just
chalk that wind up to an oportune breezy evening?
We already know that Isabel can make snow, so maybe Max has been
taking weather-making lessons. Although, truly I prefer it when
they let each podster have their own specialties.
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 524

Posted 10-17-2001 05:04 PM (IP Logged)
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Jamethiel
Part-Time Fan

Hello everybody! I'm so glad to see the "Sci-Fi of Roswell" thread
revived. I missed it. I'm a West Coaster and I never manage to get
on the boards until late Wednesday or later, so whomever is
interested in being a thread-Mom, "go for it!"
Now, on to the points raised above.
I like the theory that the space ship "healed itself" or "reformed"
itself from the scraps of ship. It is even possible that Hal's scrap
influenced him to return to Roswell or the great Southwest (remember
the ship is in Utah, but Hal has been living in Florida) in order to
get "closer" to its "other parts."
The other theory I like is that the ship hid after being reactivated
by Max. If the ship is "biomechanical" which the analyis of the
Tetrol? spot suggests, then it might have sentience. It could heal
itself and hide. But it could also be working for the FBI if it
understood "governments" or "sides." Remember the infamous "blue
crystals" from the Hybrid Chronicles which supposedly leaked from
the ship.
I've always thought the podsters could control time. Is it possible
that the ship moved itself to a different time so that it couldn't
be used or discovered? Although, moving the ship to a different
"time" or space dimension, the effect would be the same. The ship
would appear to have "vanished."
One more point, then must toddle off. In Departure, Isabel "makes"
snow. We questioned whether she manipulated the moisture in the air
to do so (or just "seized" some snow from a future or past snow
storm and moved it to its current dimension). We never resolved the
issue. But Isabel told a story about Max being upset about the death
of a pet and that it snowed (the implication being unnaturally) for
several days. The two played in the snow and got over their grief.
I've always thought she was referring to Max's ability to change the
weather, and that she learned to do it from him. Why am I mentioning
all this? I think Max did the same thing while hang gliding with
Liz. I think he remembers a windy day and brings it to his present
position. Manipulating time, not molecules. Anyway, that is my
theory and I'm sticking with it. Perhaps it could explain the
"melting gun," too?
Jamethiel
I still believe that Roswell can write excellent heartwarming
stories, but it is getting harder and harder to "believe."
Joined: Jun 00 | Posts: 98

Posted 10-18-2001 10:25 AM (IP Logged)
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Rebecca
Loyal Fan

Snow.
Good point Luna G and Jamethiel. I had forgotten about that.
Jamethiel - that's an interesting idea you have about seizing
something from a previous or future time and bringing it to the
present. So could the theory apply to seizing the Granolith from
somewhere within the past 6 months and bringing it into the present?
That way Max could hop on board and make his way to Antar. Or might
he be able to seize his son from the near future and bring his child
to his waiting arms. Or does the theory only pertain to weather?
Joined: Dec 1999 | Posts: 811

Posted 10-18-2001 01:03 PM (IP Logged)
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Jamethiel
Part-Time Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by Rebecca:
Snow.
Good point Luna G and Jamethiel. I had forgotten about that.
Jamethiel - that's an interesting idea you have about seizing
something from a previous or future time and bringing it to the
present. So could the theory apply to seizing the Granolith from
somewhere within the past 6 months and bringing it into the
present? That way Max could hop on board and make his way to
Antar. Or might he be able to seize his son from the near future
and bring his child to his waiting arms. Or does the theory only
pertain to weather?
I don't know if Max would be powerful enough to bring the whole
Granolyth back to his present position. But a son? That might be
within his power. The question he would have to face, of course, is
whether his son could survive in Earth's atmosphere.
I'm not sure Max is aware that he is manipulating "time" but it
makes more sense to me that he could "seize objects/molecules" from
a different time rather than actually "changing" the molecular
structure of an object. We've never seen much "heat" or "bang" when
Max does is "molecular manipulation" but I thought under physics
logic, such transformations produce lots of energy, light,
aftereffects. A simple "time" transformation might cause the
"melting" effect we saw in the gun. Max just moved it to a thousand
years in the future for some archeologist to stumble over. Anyway,
it is a thought.
I don't have a theory on Max's mindwarp power with Liz. I thought he
was manipulating the wall painting, rather than warping Liz's
mind...but that is just me.
Happy Roswelling, Jamethiel
Joined: Jun 00 | Posts: 98

Posted 10-18-2001 01:47 PM (IP Logged)
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Rebecca
Loyal Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by Jamethiel:
The question he would have to face, of course, is whether his son
could survive in Earth's atmosphere.
Oh yeah.
Another good point, ...that I forgot.
Thanks for mentioning the Physics behind your theory.
Joined: Dec 1999 | Posts: 811

Posted 10-18-2001 02:35 PM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

quote:
Jamethiel said:
I'm not sure Max is aware that he is manipulating "time" but it
makes more sense to me that he could "seize objects/molecules"
from a different time rather than actually "changing" the
molecular structure of an object.
This is a fun theory. It would have to be manipulating the molecules
in both space and time, wouldn't it? For example, in some episode,
Isabel turned a bottle full of ketchup into mustard. Splitting
hairs, really since physicists talk about space/time as one word. So
when they use their powers it's like a global search and replace?
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 524

Posted 10-18-2001 03:24 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan

Luna, to take the computer metaphor of "Global Search & Replace" one
step further: When he set the Hang Glider in motion, it would be
like triggering a javascript Tornado to act as the lift for the
glider.
[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ]
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2506

Posted 10-18-2001 03:25 PM (IP Logged)
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roswellfanofjb
New Fan
hello, I'm faily new and hoping i'm doing this right.
I have a Question that has been bothering me since last season.
Did they ever explain why Max son was not able to survive in earths
atmosphere? Wouldnt he have been made up of the same genetics that
his parents were? Nascedo who was not human at all and didnt seem to
have a problem with the atmosphere. the only aliens mentioned that
have a problem was the skins and the baby couldnt of been like them.
debbie
Joined: Oct 2001 | Posts: 5

Posted 10-18-2001 04:20 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by roswellfanofjb:
...Did they ever explain why Max son was not able to survive in
earths atmosphere? Wouldnt he have been made up of the same
genetics that his parents were? Nascedo who was not human at all
and didnt seem to have a problem with the atmosphere. the only
aliens mentioned that have a problem was the skins and the baby
couldnt of been like them.
Debbie and others who will undoubtedly want to discuss this further
if Max follows the quest for his son:
You might want to read some of the discussions we had last season,
archived here, even though we never reached any concrete (or jello)
conclusions.
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2506

Posted 10-20-2001 07:11 PM (IP Logged)
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plumeria
Moderator
Roswell (1)

Welcome roswellfanofjb! Ack! This is going to be confusing to me,
visually -- my RL name is Debbie! (And yet, whenever I see the word
"plus" on FF, I think it says "Plu's" and I think *that's* me as
well -- and no, I'm not that egotistical. )
Anyway -- it seems there is no objection to turning the thread over
to a West Coast thread mom, so since no one else expressed any
interest in the position, I'm happy to announce that Luna is going
to take over LSS's spot. While posters in other time zones are
welcome to post their initial reactions before Luna comes in on ep
night, I'll leave any full-fledged sci fi discussion up to her to
start.
Sound good? If there are any concerns, send me a PM.
Shapeshifter, I've replied to your email.
--------------------
Plu's Fic
Harry kissed him so deeply that it almost hurt, not on his lips but
in his heart. (IP4)
Joined: May 2000 | Posts: 6610

Posted 10-20-2001 07:26 PM (IP Logged)
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Qfanny
Obsessed Fan

I'm glad to see Luna as our thread Mom! I've done it before and
always felt very unqualified to LSS' creditials. But that was back
in the WB days.
It's difficult to be a Roswell fan when you don't get a UPN station.
But oh well. It could be worse.
I don't think there was a lot of sci fi in this last episode, except
I do think that Max and the mural was more like a mindwarp than
anything else. If he could make Liz see captions, he could have
devised a better plan in the whole Sams' convinence store robbery.
Also, I think that the diamond Max swapped around were different. I
think something has to be different about the otherworldly diamond
and the one Max created. Otherwise, why switch it at all??? Why not
just manufactor a new key???
--------------------
From Nebraska
Qfanny/MOB14
Liz is not an alien
And there is no spam in responsibility!
Joined: Jul 00 | Posts: 1540

Posted 10-20-2001 07:50 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan

Hurray for Luna as our new Thread Mom!
ITA with Qfanny (as usual ).
About the mural-warp: My first reaction was that it was a very
low-budget special effect--it looked like the video version of a
Power Point presentation (which is incredibly easy and quick to
learn and do). But hey, it was cute , and "simple pictures are
best."
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2506

Posted 10-20-2001 09:55 PM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Loyal Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by Qfanny:
...I think that the diamond Max swapped around were different. I
think something has to be different about the otherworldly diamond
and the one Max created. Otherwise, why switch it at all??? ....
Well, yes, I imagine it's like the difference between a recorded
videotape or disc and a blank one. (On the theory that crystals are
the aliens' medium for data recording. Maybe diamonds are preferred
for durability?) Max needed the info. contained in that diamond. To
the owner, the replacement "blank" one is just as good, since she
didn't know there was any stored info, and would have no way to read
it anyway.
Joined: Dec 99 | Posts: 977

Posted 10-22-2001 12:08 AM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

Solid state memory, huh? That makes me feel a whole lot better about
the control crystal/diamond key business. It seemed a little cliché,
but if there's actually a good reason...well, that's another matter.
So, if time exists in multiple subset dimensions on Antar, they'd
want to store their information in a very stable format, hey?
I just realized that people on Antar wouldn't need VCRs or TiVo when
they had a TV scheduling conflict. Wouldn't that be nice?
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 524

Posted 10-22-2001 12:10 AM (IP Logged)
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Helios
New Fan
Hi, I'm new here too. Hope that there will be more sci-fi elements
in the next episodes than these first few.
I agree with Luna, et al, regarding the space/time issue (fun
metaphor with computer jargon, too). What bothers me with these
first few episodes, though (as many of you have stated) is the
haphazard attention to each of the podster's "powers" -- are they
interchangeable amongst the three of them; have they done crash
courses in "Alien Powers 101" at the local college over the summer
(?!); and if, as we saw (intermittently) throughout the first two
seasons, it takes a tremendous amount of physical energy to make
these things happen, why is Max so freely using them with Liz
(Crashdown messages, hang glider)?
(Please remember to set your VCRs for UPN, not WB! It's a hard habit
to break...)
--------------------
"Guesses, of course, only guesses. If they are not true, something
better will be." -- C.S. Lewis, _Letters to Malcolm_
Login Name: Man of Colours | Joined: Oct 2001 | Posts: 3

Posted 10-22-2001 12:17 AM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by Helios:
(Please remember to set your VCRs for UPN, not WB! It's a hard
habit to break...)
Do you do that too? I swear I've done it every week so far. If I
didn't watch Buffy first, I'd have missed the beginning. Glad to
know I'm not the only one. Welcome to the sci fi thread, Helios.
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 524

Posted 10-22-2001 01:21 AM (IP Logged)
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cybercycle
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Next, was it telekinesis that Max used to get the hang glider off
the ground? That would work for me, because we know that he can
move objects, like Hubble's gun at the end of UFO Convention. Now
maybe I have to watch the glider scene again, but just seconds
after Max and Liz's feet left the ground you see their hair being
blown by wind.
In the scene, just before the glider lifts off, Max extends his hand
downward. To me, it seemed as though he were stirring up the wind.

screencaps by MistyMue at www.crashdown.com
Login Name: laughingdragon | Joined: Oct 2001 | Posts: 159

Posted 10-22-2001 03:13 PM (IP Logged)
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elenac
Dedicated Fan

Hi everybody.
We are discussing at "Transcripts-Explanation of words" thread a
reference that was made by Buddha in one of Kyle's dreams to
Knuckles and the Dark Legion. They were both a video game and a
comic book series. What we are trying to find out is what the game
was about and the plot line of Knuckles and the Dark Legion. We
would love if anyone of you who knows, would like to join in and
give us some info. Thanks. Elena.
--------------------
elena
Joined: Mar 2001 | Posts: 141

Posted 10-22-2001 03:39 PM (IP Logged)
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Apolo
Loyal Fan

I think he just manipulated the wind to move the hang glider. But if
he could use telekinesis to do that, he could probably be able to
fly.
--------------------
To smack or not to smack.. that is the question.
Login Name: Germán | Joined: Aug 2001 | Posts: 543

Posted 10-23-2001 11:38 PM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

No one can replace LSS, but Roswell lives on, so here goes:
The Science Fiction of Significant Others.
Right. Bit of an oxymoron there--from the title we knew this was
going to be a "relationship" episode. Isabel's statement to Maria in
the Crashdown is telling. "Forget the alien thing. Pretend it's not
an issue." But, of course it is. Being an alien can sure throw a
wrench into a nice, normal dating relationship. Here are some sci-fi
related points we may want to discuss from this latest installment.
1. GHOSTLY VISITATIONS: Back from the dead for yet a third time,
Alex C. Whitman is fulfilling his destiny, in a manner of speaking.
Remember at the beginning of Season 1, when Topolsky gave all the
students a vocational profile? According to the profile, Alex was
destined to be a psychologist. He sure seems to be functioning as
Isabel's therapist right now. Or is he?
Communing with the dear and departed has become a common occurence
in Roswell. In addition to Alex, we've had the father from the
Season 2 Christmas episode, and Liz's last moments with Grandma
Claudia. In all of these encounters there's been a certain ambiguity
about whether this was an actual ghost or some kind of projection.
Are the Alex encounters figments of Isabel's imagination, drawn from
her own memories? Or are they real after-life conversations? And
what does it mean when Alex says, "I'm part of you"? You decide.
2. DREAM ESPIONAGE: I love it when Isabel dreamwalks. Even though
there's a bit of moral ambiguity to invading another person's inmost
thoughts and feelings, it's one of my favorite alien powers. But
dreamwalking also has its drawbacks, and in this episode appears to
be a rather unreliable source of information. I guess dreams don't
always reflect reality...
3. THE EVER-BURGEONING "I KNOW AN ALIEN" CLUB: To tell or not to
tell, that is the question. Max says, "The second you tell Jesse,
his life changes forever."Is it really safer for Jesse not to know
the truth? Safer for whom? There's an equation here that says
Knowledge=Danger (or conversely Ignorance=Safety). But isn't that
safety an illusion? Lines from two movies come to mind:
from A Few Good Men, "The truth? You can't handle the truth."
from The Matrix, "Ignorance is bliss.
4. THAT RIDICULOUS ALIEN JELLYFISH THING: OK, that line just cracked
me up. The gandarium queen seemed stupid at the time, but now it's
like an eccentric old relative. Sort of endearing.
Well, fire away. What did you all think? Despite the fact that there
wasn't much sci-fi, I really enjoyed it. There were some very sweet
moments. The trailer for next week looks interesting. Please
remember that this thread is shipper-neutral. Happy discussing.
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 524

Posted 10-24-2001 05:24 AM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan

Luna, excellent!
I too laughed at the "ridiculous blue jellyfish" comment. Oh how
well we knew ye. I HATED that ridiculous blue jellyfish.
The main thing in this ep was NOT using their powers: Michael in
bowling, Isabel not telling Jessie (though she did dream walk), Max
backing down from Liz's Dad.
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2505

Posted 10-24-2001 05:39 AM (IP Logged)
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plumeria
Moderator
Roswell (1)

Great job, Luna!!
In fact, I'm impressed -- I was talking to Drcy last night and
wondering what the heck you were going to come up with, because I
hadn't seen *any* Scifi for this ep. ::checks TV description:: This
is still a show about aliens, right?
I'd forgotten that Alex was predicted to be a psychologist. He seems
to have fulfilled that role.
That Jellyfish line was the best in the ep, IMO. Totally cracked me
up.
Here's something I was wondering, about the ghosts. In ARCC we
argued whether DG (dead guy) was real or just a figment of Max's
guilt. Everytime Alex shows up, we assume he's "real" -- an honest
ghost, albeit one only Iz can see. Or do you think he's just a
figment of *her* guilt and confusion? It's one thing to have her
"talking to herself" when she's conversing with him, but what about
when she hugged him there on the street -- was she hugging the air?
Hugging a tree? What?
--------------------
Plu's Fic
Harry kissed him so deeply that it almost hurt, not on his lips but
in his heart. (IP4)
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Posted 10-24-2001 09:07 AM (IP Logged)
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Helios
New Fan
Wow. I think you guys already covered just about all the sci-fi
elements of this ep. Cool episode, though. I hope Roswell can regain
its rightful place in the ratings as better (and with a stronger
following) than that other troubled-teen-alien-show.
Okay, here's one. Maybe ya'll discussed this last season, but is
there any consistency to when, and under what circumstances, kissing
people see flashes? Max and Liz went sub-super-conscious practically
every time they kissed during first season (and I think second as
well), Michael & Maria did once (I think), but is it
1> a power that is exercised, and therefore can be used or held
back,
2> a normal by-product of kissing an alien, or
3> a normal by-product of heightened emotions?
If #1 is correct, then why are Max & Liz not flashing as much this
season? #2 cannot be right, since Jesse and Iz would have had
flashes then. If #3 is correct, then we have a bunch of repressed
teenage aliens on our hands, that can't let their emotions show. But
now that I think about it, Liz got a weird flash from Nasedo/Max
when they kissed -- heightened emotions again? I would venture it
(the flashes) is a Liz power, except for the fact that Michael &
Maria did once (I think -- can you guys help me here?)
Sorry for thinking out loud. I'll think on this one further, and
post any ideas I have later...
--------------------
"Guesses, of course, only guesses. If they are not true, something
better will be." -- C.S. Lewis, _Letters to Malcolm_
Login Name: Man of Colours | Joined: Oct 2001 | Posts: 3

Posted 10-24-2001 11:17 AM (IP Logged)
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RedJello
Part-Time Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by plumeria:
Everytime Alex shows up, we assume he's "real" -- an honest ghost
I always thought Alex was a figment of Isabel's imagination. When
she hugs him, I just figured she was seeing it in her mind.
Although, I can just see Isabel standing there hugging a tree.
Joined: Jun 2001 | Posts: 83

Posted 10-24-2001 11:24 AM (IP Logged)
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Mandolin
New Fan
Isabelle's "...that ridiculous blue alien jellyfish thing" was my
favorite part. I watched that bit three times, laughing harder with
each viewing.
As much as I love Roswell (and sci-fi in general), I had to cringe
at the nature of Grant's death last season. Isabelle's comment
almost made the awkwardness of the whole gandarium thing worthwhile.
Thanks for mentioning, Luna!
Joined: Apr 2001 | Posts: 17

Posted 10-24-2001 11:36 AM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan

when Alex 'revisited" Isabel after he first died, I believe we saw
her dance with him in the graveyard and then the camera pulled back
to reveal that she was dancing with an 'air' partner. Is that right?
Also, in SO, Alex tells Is that he has forgiven her and that since
he's a part of her, she has forgiven herself already.
Combining these to instances of Alex Ghost, I conclude that he is
not a ghost in the usual understanding.
BTW, I'm rereading the Roswell High books and discovered that when
the six friends made their 'connection,' Maria refers to it as their
"essences" combining. Maybe a part of Alex's essence was still with
Isabel? The part of him that he had promised would always be there
for her? But as long as all's well with Jesse, she won't need the
Alex essence anymore?
Sorry, life's stressfull and i'm escaping here and my question mark
key is getting abused a little.
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2505

Posted 10-24-2001 11:55 AM (IP Logged)
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Juniper
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by RedJello:
I always thought Alex was a figment of Isabel's imagination.
Yeah, I think he says as much in the restroom scene when he tells
her that since he's forgiven her, and he's just a part of her, then
she's forgiven herself. This is obviously just a paraphrase. What's
interesting is that not only does Colin get more screen time now
that he's dead, he and Isabel have a deeper relationship too.
Seeing ghosts, however, may be another fringe benefit of heightened
parapsychological powers. I do tend to think that Max's ghost dad
was a figment of his imagination, but I would be willing to stand
corrected.
To tell or not to tell...aside the fact that I think marrying
someone you've known for 3 months (at eighteen, no less) is a
serious error in judgement, telling Jesse is a terrible mistake --
for all the reasons Max stated and more.
I am duly impressed that Luna pulled up some discussion points in
what I thought was a relatively light episode.
Joined: Oct 2000 | Posts: 164

Posted 10-24-2001 12:56 PM (IP Logged)
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Vintage Dress
New Fan
Hey everyone, you guys have some really interesting theories.
I was thinking about the diamond, of all possible things, being the
key to the spaceship. A diamond symbolizes the commitment between
husband and wife. So maybe the real key to the spaceship and the pod
squad's only way home is a marriage between Max and Liz.
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 3

Posted 10-24-2001 01:32 PM (IP Logged)
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Helios
New Fan
quote:
Originally Posted by Vintage Dress:
So maybe the real key to the spaceship and the pod squad's only
way home is a marriage between Max and Liz.
Love it! They could do a Shakespearean comedy-type episode (Much Ado
About Nothing, etc.) where everyone gets married and they all go
home and live happily ever after.
Thoughts:
1> Luna G mentioned "dream espionage" which triggered a memory about
how Madeleine L'Engle used "kything" in many of her children's
sci-fi books (Swiftly Tilting Planet, A Wrinkle In Time, A Ring of
Endless Light, etc.). The connection that struck me was that
sometimes it was a good thing to get into someone else's mind, other
times it was a violation. But from a sci-fi perspective, I'm
wondering if, as L'Engle posits, all of this extra-sensory
experience stuff -- ghosts, communicating/kything, etc. -- isn't
just a hyper-developed human trait (Juniper just called it
"heightened parapsychological powers" a few posts ago). Remember,
was it Courtney or Nasedo that said something similar, like any
human could do it, they just didn't know how to use the full
capacity of their brain. Maybe Alex's ghost, Max's ability to
communicate directly with his son, the flashes, and Isabel's
dreamwalking are all simply heightened/super-extended human skills?
(I like unified theories of everything -- ha!)
2> Off-topic, congrats are due to the Mars Odyssey crew at NASA and
JPL for bringing science fiction one step closer to non-fiction last
night -- placing another orbiter around Mars. Darn, I wanna go there
before I die. Think Max will take all of us?
--------------------
"Guesses, of course, only guesses. If they are not true, something
better will be." -- C.S. Lewis, _Letters to Malcolm_
Login Name: Man of Colours | Joined: Oct 2001 | Posts: 3

Posted 10-24-2001 01:58 PM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

Welcome to Red Jello, Mandolin and Vintage Dress! Thanks for joining
the discussion.
quote:
Shapeshifter said:
BTW, I'm rereading the Roswell High books and discovered that when
the six friends made their 'connection,' Maria refers to it as
their "essences" combining. Maybe a part of Alex's essence was
still with Isabel?
Okay, if it's the connection that makes Isabel see Alex, is the dead
guy in ARCC a different category of ghost? And this has me thinking
too about Liz's appearance to Max in the episode in New York. Was
she able to appear to him because she's got some of his essence? Or
he has some of hers? Is that what Ava meant when she said to Liz,
"You're different now"? Questions, questions.
quote:
Juniper said:
I am duly impressed that Luna pulled up some discussion points in
what I thought was a relatively light episode.
Yeah, well I kind of had to stretch the definition of sci fi to
manage it.
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 524

Posted 10-24-2001 02:18 PM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

double post.
[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ]
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 524

Posted 10-24-2001 04:44 PM (IP Logged)
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Juniper
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by Helios:
1> a power that is exercised, and therefore can be used or held
back,
2> a normal by-product of kissing an alien, or
3> a normal by-product of heightened emotions?
I didn't want to ignore your post, but truthfully I have not given
this area much deep thought. Most of what I remember reading falls
under the Liz-is-special category, a pie that has too many different
slices. Maria having flashes ("seeing" Michael) helped me to figure
out that it wasn't so much a Max/Liz thang as we thought.
Methinks it's a power they all have the capacity for due to
heightened emotional states...but in the old days when all this was
shiny-new, it was not something Max had been able to control.
Michael willfully gave Maria flashes, but only long after he'd been
working on embracing his alien side. Liz had flashes that Max was
obviously not intentionally controlling (because they were images he
did not know anything about).
Like I said, I haven't given it much thought. (shrug)
Joined: Oct 2000 | Posts: 164

Posted 10-26-2001 05:29 AM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by Luna G:
...Okay, if it's the connection that makes Isabel see Alex, is the
dead guy in ARCC a different category of ghost? ....
Either he is a 'different category of ghost' or maybe Max
'connected' with his essence right before he died because of Max's
compassionate desire to heal him (which he later confesses was
over-ruled by Max's PTSD from the White Room encounter).
quote:
Originally Posted by Luna G:
...And this has me thinking too about Liz's appearance to Max in
the episode in New York. Was she able to appear to him because
she's got some of his essence? Or he has some of hers? Is that
what Ava meant when she said to Liz, "You're different now"?
Questions, questions....
Also, Is says in MITC: "I know my brother, and I know that if there
is one voice he will hear no matter where he is, no matter what he's
doing, it's yours. Take my hand, Liz. "
BTW, I loved that ep., especially the scene where the emmisary saw
the king imprint in Max's brain.
I loved the blue crystals too in the H Chronicles. Just NOT the
"ridiculous" flying jellyfish!
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2505

Posted 10-26-2001 07:16 AM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Loyal Fan

So Izzy's getting married. Doesn't that require a blood test?
Joined: Dec 99 | Posts: 977

Posted 10-26-2001 08:31 AM (IP Logged)
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plumeria
Moderator
Roswell (1)

Depends on where you live. I don't know about NM, but in PA (where I
am) they discontinued the blood test requirements. All we had to do
when we got married (4 years ago) was fill out a form.
--------------------
Plu's Fic
Harry kissed him so deeply that it almost hurt, not on his lips but
in his heart. (IP4)
Joined: May 2000 | Posts: 6608

Posted 10-27-2001 11:57 AM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

As to marriages: In New Mexico, there is no waiting period, no blood
test, no residency requirement. You must be 18, show ID, and pay
$25.
Here's a question: Are we sure the ship in the underground room was
the one that crashed in 1947? After all our "reconstruction"
theories, I realized that there might be more than one. It could
have belonged to some other group of aliens. Especially since Nasedo
changed sides. Maybe it's the ship the skins came in or something...
Hope you all are having a nice weekend.
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 524

Posted 10-30-2001 09:28 PM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

The Science Fiction of Secrets and Lies.
Alien lovers unite. This week's episode was directed by Jonathan
Frakes. He's one of my personal favorites, because he tends to have
an actual sense of humor. He also got to deliver the line of the
week: "I'm not feeling like you're an alien." There's lots of good
stuff in this episode. Unfortunately we'll have to wait until next
week to resolve some of these issues. Until then, let's see what we
have learned.
1. NON-SPONTANEOUS COMBUSTION. Yeah. Smoking isn't good for you.
Despite Max's statement that this is the way Nasedo usually killed,
the manner of Ferrini's death is a little different. Sure, he heated
the victim's internal organs to an extreme temperature, but left
behind a nice healthy looking corpse. What's up with the Ferrini
fricassee?
2. ALIEN WARNINGS. A note that disintegrates as soon as you read it?
Maybe it's just the special effects department, but that note turned
to dust in the exact way that the bits of skin (as in Skins) did
last season. Coincidence?
3. ALIEN WARNINGS II. "You've got mail, Max." If my computer started
talking to me like that, I'd rip it out of the wall. So, is our new
enemy a techno-wizard? Or was he lurking about somewhere near Max?
E-mail experts, I call upon you to explain how this is possible.
(I'm strictly a user of the point and click variety.)
4. ENTER THE SHAPESHIFTER. At last, a new alien. We've been sorely
lacking in mysterious enemies for a while now. And he's a good one.
Homicidal much? So. The theory on the table is that shapeshifters
have to return to their "regular" form periodically. Is this a
biological necessity? A residual self-image like in the Matrix? Or
is it simply a matter of comfort? And why do shapeshifters prefer to
have no hair? And the same sweet personality?
5. 1959 REDUX. This would be the same year that Atherton died. (And
in an interesting coincidence, we've got Atherton's book, Among Us,
and the movie, They Are Among Us.) The same year that Milton (the
old owner of the UFO museum) had a picture taken with a creepy alien
shadow. And now the year when an actress was killed by a freak
lightening bolt. Quite a year in Roswell. Is clapper loader turned
movie producer Cal Langley the real Nasedo known to River Dog?
I'm vacationing on the East Coast this week, so got to see Roswell
three hours earlier than usual. A nice treat, almost as nice as
getting to see my beloved L.A. on screen. Homesick already, how
pathetic.
What did you all think?
[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ]
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 524

Posted 10-30-2001 10:12 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by Luna G:
... Is clapper loader turned movie producer Cal Langley the real
Nasedo known to River Dog?...
Alrighty then, take 2, please (the board ate my post):
Good Question, Luna, and Terrific Sci Fi Review!
Loved it when Max used his powers to project the film, but did Cal
melt the light on the wall or the actual film?
I always believed that both Atherton and Michael's foster dad died
because they knew too much and were going to use it (like Joey
planned).
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2505

Posted 10-31-2001 07:47 AM (IP Logged)
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plumeria
Moderator
Roswell (1)

Once again, great job, Luna! I love your snark.
"I'm not feeling like you're an alien."
I agree -- Definitely one of the best lines.
1. NON-SPONTANEOUS COMBUSTION.
Not only was the method of death a little more violent than Nacedo's
variety, but where was Langley in the moment before the strike? It
seemed like he moved with preternatural speed. Had he shapeshifted
into a blade of grass or something, until the moment before he
struck? Wouldn't there have been a visible handprint in the charred
remains? Is that really what people look like after they've been
struck by lightning?
2. ALIEN WARNINGS.
Excellent note about how the paper looked like Skin dust. I thought
it looked familiar! As for the email -- creepy. Was Langley there?
Or can he just manipulate a computer's program remotely? I run my
own website and know some html, but I don't know a thing about email
programs. And didn't the girlfriend notice the talking computer?
4. ENTER THE SHAPESHIFTER. Where the hell has this guy been all this
time?? Has he really been biding his time as a Hollywood hotshot?
Why? Why didn't he try to find Nacedo? With all their technology,
you'd think they'd be able to find each other. What's his agenda?
And doesn't the "base form" concept go against what we learned in
Destiny/Ask Not (Nacedo's "base" form seemed to be a greyling).
I'm guessing the bald guy base image is a means of blending in. The
girlfriend couldn't describe the mysterious attacker at all. And
that's partly because it was dark, he was walking away, and he
disappeared, sure. But it's also because he's pretty nondescript
looking. Nothing really stand out about him.
Of course, since he's obviously been in the movie industry a LONG
time, hasn't anyone wondered why he didn't age??
5. 1959 REDUX. When did Sheila Hubble die? Was it also this year? Or
is that unstated?
So are we to assume that the two aliens whatshisname saw in Sof47
were Nacedo and Langley?
Sorry, not too many answers from me just yet. ::ponderponder:: I'll
be interested to see the discussions, though.
--------------------
Plu's Fic
Harry kissed him so deeply that it almost hurt, not on his lips but
in his heart. (IP4)
Joined: May 2000 | Posts: 6608

Posted 10-31-2001 08:15 AM (IP Logged)
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Melodious1
Addicted Fan

Barring my own better judgement, I decided to come on here and offer
up my .02. Hopefully, it won't be spun in delves o' cynical (since
the Critics Corner is the only other thread I post on in regards to
Ros1 anymore). I'll try and dissway my snarkiness
quote:
Originally Posted by Luna G:
1. NON-SPONTANEOUS COMBUSTION. Yeah. Smoking isn't good for you.
Despite Max's statement that this is the way Nasedo usually
killed, the manner of Ferrini's death is a little different. Sure,
he heated the victim's internal organs to an extreme temperature,
but left behind a nice healthy looking corpse. What's up with the
Ferrini fricassee?
Do the differences really matter? Both aliens fried their victims,
the fact that Max right out says "This is the way Nasedo killed"
blah blah... I think you got your answer right there. It probably
was no other means to show how incredibly callous
(brutally/painfully) they both kill (hence they're probably both
"bad", in their own ways).
quote:
2. ALIEN WARNINGS. A note that disintegrates as soon as you read
it? Maybe it's just the special effects department, but that note
turned to dust in the exact way that the bits of skin (as in
Skins) did last season. Coincidence?
Like the shed skins... imo, the note disintegrating in almost the
exact same way was probably a rather generalized way of saying "Bad
guys are around Max, stay sharp". As you said, alien warnings. I
doubt there is any real "scientific" explanation for it.
Disentegrating shed skins = bad aliens close by (minus Courtney -
although I don't remember Courtney's skin actually disintegrating
when someone picked it up. Hence she wasn't "bad"). Disintegrating
note = bad alien(s) close by.
quote:
3. ALIEN WARNINGS II. "You've got mail, Max." If my computer
started talking to me like that, I'd rip it out of the wall. So,
is our new enemy a techno-wizard? Or was he lurking about
somewhere near Max? E-mail experts, I call upon you to explain how
this is possible. (I'm strictly a user of the point and click
variety.)
Or it was a mindwarp.
quote:
4. ENTER THE SHAPESHIFTER... The theory on the table is that
shapeshifters have to return to their "regular" form periodically.
Probably to leave it open in the storyline to show the audience a
"kewl" glowing greyling (a la Sof47) again at one point or another.
Also probably to eventually say to the audience, "THIS is what the
podsters looked like *before* they became supermodel, Earth-bound
recreated royal hybrids", ahem. Show off their amazing fx (and try
to make people forget the everso ridiculous fx from last season: the
jellyfish, Michael's Bicco thumb, Max's green shield, exploding
Skins a la dusted Buffy vamps, the greenis, etc etc).
I find the simplest answers are usually the correct ones
unfortunately in concerns to this show.
Melodious
Joined: Jun 2000 | Posts: 1473

Posted 10-31-2001 11:37 AM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by plumeria:
1. NON-SPONTANEOUS COMBUSTION.
Not only was the method of death a little more violent than
Nacedo's variety,
...Wouldn't there have been a visible handprint in the charred
remains...
I think the lack of remaining handprint would be the reason why Cal
would do the total fricasee.
quote:
2. ALIEN WARNINGS....As for the email -- creepy. Was Langley
there? Or can he just manipulate a computer's program remotely...
Definitely creepy. Can we give the directory, cameraman, special
effects, and editor a big hand please?
I thought it was supposed to be related to Max's ability to animate
the mural, which is related to a mindwarp (causing to see what isn't
there). And I think he was nearby.
quote:
4. ENTER THE SHAPESHIFTER. Where the hell has this guy been all
this time?? Has he really been biding his time as a Hollywood
hotshot... What's his agenda? ...since he's obviously been in the
movie industry a LONG time, hasn't anyone wondered why he didn't
age??...
Good questions, tune in next week. ***evil laugh***
quote:
...And doesn't the "base form" concept go against what we learned
in Destiny/Ask Not (Nacedo's "base" form seemed to be a greyling).
I'm guessing the bald guy base image is a means of blending in.
...
I think there's
base form 1 (the greyling) and
base form 2 (the human interpretation of the essence).
quote:
5. 1959 REDUX. When did Sheila Hubble die? Was it also this year?
Or is that unstated?
I think it's 1979, but check out Zero's timeline.
So this guy was the same as the one in Blind Date. Was he also Doug
"Dog Boy" Shellow "Shallow"? Maybe even Sean?
Melodius, terrific post!
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2505

Posted 10-31-2001 03:45 PM (IP Logged)
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Juniper
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by plumeria:
But it's also because he's pretty nondescript looking. Nothing
really stand out about him.
Joe Pantoliano nondescript? What have you been smoking? He's very
distinctive, and he usually plays creepazoids (of the human
variety). I found it to be great casting.
But yeah, what is his agenda? Is it just that he doesn't want anyone
to be discovered? We never really established whether it was Nasedo
who killed Sheila Hubble. Now it could be Langly. And why would
either of them want to kill a B-movie actress?
As for the shots of L.A. making you homesick, Luna, I'm sure you
especially loved the part where Max thinks he has a parking ticket.
Best way to avoid parking tickets: move to the Valley.
More later ... a meeting calls.
Joined: Oct 2000 | Posts: 164

Posted 10-31-2001 05:00 PM (IP Logged)
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Melodious1
Addicted Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by Juniper:
We never really established whether it was Nasedo who killed
Sheila Hubble. Now it could be Langly.
When Liz kissed Maxcedo in M2TM, one of the flashes she got was of
Sheila's dead body. Which I suppose is about as much confirmation as
Ros can muster that Nasedo was the one that killed Sheila. It was
also (more or less) a "classic" Nasedo killing. Silver handprint
emblazoned on the body.
What I want to know is, who killed Hank. Hank died rather painfully
(and loudly) if I recall from ID. The neighbors had heard him
screaming. This could have very well been a Langley killing. Since I
didn't see ep4 (and I'm not about to), I'm not sure about this, but
from what I hear... Ferrini died pretty terribly too. Some freak
lightening bolt or something?
Also, who was impersonating Dr. Margolin (CRAZY)? Then proceeded to
shapeshift into the burly hiker, then walk away with a backpack (as
if he were going on some long trip). Nasedo was already in the area
with Tess (with the government? Recall Ed Harding had a government
job. Edsedo and Tess had military escorts to their home, TLV). So,
Nasedo wouldn't have been going anywhere, seemingly unlike that SS
Hiker from CRAZY.
All legitimate questions imo, that will probably never get answered.
quote:
And why would either of them want to kill a B-movie actress?
Maybe one of the SSers was "diddling" her? The woman might have seen
(or experienced?) something she shouldn't have? Thus, had to be
killed? Sounds like something Edsedo would do. Although we don't
really know anything about Langley either.
Or maybe there is no "other" shapeshifter? Maybe Langley IS Nasedo
(aka Edsedo)? Edsedo faked his death and has been helping Tess in
the shadows this whole time? Tess mindwarped the three podsters in
the pod chamber in ASK NOT to see Edsedo's body disintegrate. Thus
began the steps in Tess ingratiating herself into the pod squad.
Poor little Tess, all alone in the world... all the while knowing
about this 40 yr. old deal to betray them all). After Edsedo
successfully faked his death, he ran to L.A., killed the real "Kal
Langley"... and has been impersonating him this whole time? Although
I'm afraid this paragraph is a bit to clever for our writers
Melodious
[ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: Melodious1 ]
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Posted 10-31-2001 05:25 PM (IP Logged)
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Juniper
Dedicated Fan

Yes, motive, agenda...and who killed Hank. These are all part of the
same question. In the good old days of nameless shapeshifter, those
who were killed, such as Hank, plus I suppose Atherton, were killed
to protect the kiddies. If the actress (whatever her name was) was
on to something, then that follows suit. Ditto Joe.
Sheila Hubble seems to have been killed for revenge (I know you guys
have discussed this to death, but it's a new season, forgive me).
Doesn't fit the profile. And what of Topolsky? Killed because she
was trying to warn the kids that the government was on to them? Also
not the profile.
Which brings me to this conclusion: Edsedo bad, Langly good (but
weird and lethal). Langly is trying to keep Max from getting home,
which will lead him to certain doom.
It's just a theory; we've all got one or two.
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Posted 10-31-2001 05:50 PM (IP Logged)
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KiwiRoswellian
Dedicated Fan

thats a great theory.
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Posted 10-31-2001 08:33 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan

From the now defunct Season 1 Primer, I bring 'evidence' that Nasedo
killed Hank:
quote:
INDEPENDENCE DAY
After Max and Isabel discover Michael's foster father has been
beating him, they offer him a place in their home.
Feeling isolated, Michael struggles with not having a real family
like what he witnesses at the Evans. Michael goes to Maria for
comfort, but is thrown out by Maria's mom. Michael then considers
leaving Roswell in search of his real family and Nasedo.
Jason Katims Commentary
"I love the themes of (Michael) being an actual alien, and him
being an alienated teen."
Once on the road, Michael realizes Max and Isabel are his real
family, and returns to Roswell. Max's father then helps Michael
gain emancipation.
Meanwhile, Sheriff Valenti and Amy attempt to take their
relationship a step further. Amy comes to realize that Sheriff
Valenti only has time for his job.
In the end, we see Michael's foster father shape shifting into
someone else. We come to realize the fourth alien, Nasedo, had
killed Michael's foster father after he learned of the beating.
Of course, maybe, as with Leanna, Nasedo is not Nasedo is not Nasedo
is not Nasedo. Seems to kind of go with the shapeshifting territory
if y'all know what I mean.
[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ]
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Posted 11-01-2001 12:31 PM (IP Logged)
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Juniper
Dedicated Fan

It's not evidence that Nasedo killed Hank, it's evidence that a
shapeshifter killed Hank...one who was on their side.
In the past we assumed that it had to be Nasedo because he was the
only SSer we knew for certain existed.
Ambiguity rules! (Or does it?)
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Posted 11-06-2001 10:20 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan

Okay, I am really going to sleep now, but when Langely said his
life was ruined, was that because of he had shapeshifted and lost
all his human adaptations, or because the military were going to
come after him for messing with the ship?
Also, my cable got interference just when he explained about not
shapeshifting somehow helping his get human senses, at least I think
that's what he said (I lost words). Is this right?
I'll check back tomorrow.
Gnight
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2539

Posted 11-07-2001 12:10 AM (IP Logged)
Luna G
Loyal Fan

The Science Fiction of Control.
Part two. Oh, the sweet sound of plotlines being resolved, at least
temporarily. Control gave us a set of podsters once again stranded
on earth. More information than we've ever had about shapeshifters
and shapeshifting. And, most importantly, a firm wedding date.
Another fine episode from Katims & Co. Let's see what we have.
1. LIFE AS A SHAPESHIFTER: It's official--Langley is, in fact, the
second shapeshifter sent with the podsters in 1947. Sounds like it's
not a peachy existence, though. Can't feel, can't taste, can't
smell? Max was right to say he had human envy. And a capacity for
serious long-term planning. His strategy of not shape-shifting in
order to gain even the tiniest bit of sensory experience must have
taken quite a commitment. But I'm not so sure how it would actually
work. Did he say that by not shapeshifting, he started to form
organs?
2. CONTROL. About halfway through the episode, I was wondering what
the title "Control" had to do with this installment of Roswell. Then
Max ordered Langley to give him some ice cream, and wow. Max has
control over Langley because obedience is written into his DNA.
There's a way to insure loyalty. Assuming Nasedo had the same
set-up, how did he work around it to plot against Max?
3. THE EVER-BURGEONING "I'VE SEEN AN ALIEN SPACESHIP CLUB": Forget
top-secret storage rooms. The flying saucer is now residing in a big
hangar on a working Air Force base. The Pentagon knows about it. A
whole team of engineers must have reconstructed the thing at some
point. That's a big conspiracy to keep under wraps all this time. So
the question is, who doesn't know there are aliens on earth?
4. ZAN THE EVIL KING: "You've always been like this. Selfish,
ungrateful." It appears the rumors are true. Max was no saint in his
prior life. Does alien=evil, and human=good? Given current events, I
think it's safe to say that humans aren't all good, all the time.
So, what is the connection between being an alien and being inhuman?
Back in my own time zone and recovering from jet lag. There's no
place like home.
[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ]
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 530

Posted 11-07-2001 05:22 AM (IP Logged)
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plumeria
Moderator
Roswell (1)

Another great job, Luna!
1. LIFE AS A SHAPESHIFTER:
My main question with the can't-feel-can't-taste etc issue is this:
How can they move and interact with the world as well as they do if
they can't feel? Picture it -- your leg falls asleep and you have
trouble walking because you can't feel anything. Now picture that
being your whole body. How do they eat without choking (if they
can't feel -- I have a Master's Degree in speech path, which
includes swallowing issues -- so I know some of the hazards), walk,
drive (can't feel the gas pedal...) or do *anything*? And why is
vision the only sense that still works perfectly, same as a human?
Do pure-blood aliens have their senses on Antar? Or do aliens in
general not have any senses other than sight?
Luna, I don't recall anything about forming organs, but maybe I
missed something. They have to have *some* organs, or they wouldn't
be able to breathe or eat, right?
2. CONTROL. -- Oh, was that built into the DNA? I missed that. I was
assuming Langley had just been given orders about his job as a
protector, that he had to obey any direct command from the King.
When Max gave the command for ice cream, though, I was expecting
some sort of Jedi mind-control reaction -- like it was something
inside *Max*, rather than a built-in response from Langley. This
ended up not being the case, but it was my first reaction.
As for Nacedo working around it -- well, Langley was doing
everything in *his* power to work around it as well. I think as long
as Max never directly ordered Nacedo to do something contrary to his
Evil Plan, there would be no stopping him (Nacedo). Just as Langley
was free to threaten Max directly (albeit not kill him) and refuse
to cooperate unless given a direct command.
3. THE EVER-BURGEONING "I'VE SEEN AN ALIEN SPACESHIP CLUB":
Again -- how the heck did they get the ship IN there? Moved there
from Utah. Without being seen. And am I the only person who thought
it looked like the ship actively *spit* Langley back out again? Why
did Langley have to Shapeshift in order to fly the craft?
--------------------
Plu's Fic
Harry kissed him so deeply that it almost hurt, not on his lips but
in his heart. (IP4)
Joined: May 2000 | Posts: 6724

Posted 11-07-2001 07:15 AM (IP Logged)
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twilightlurker
Dedicated Fan

De-lurking. Just wanted to point out a quote towardsthe end of the
show. It was something close to this:
Langley: "Go back home; Go see your sister; your girlfriend; Your
mother, who already feels like she's lost you.", in which Max
replies "How did you know about them"?, and Langley says
"Because I'm your protetor, I have to know".
...Tic-Tac...a definite possibility.
Bye
- Marisa
Joined: May 00 | Posts: 409

Posted 11-07-2001 08:45 AM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

Hi twilightlurker! That's a good point in favor of Langley being Tic
Tac. He's definitely been in Roswell and checking up on the
podsters. And if he can only taste strong flavors, how about those
wintergreen tic-tacs. They really pack a punch. Now, if only we
could discredit his claim that he didn't shapeshift in the past 50
years...
plumeria, I'm still thinking about your number one. Could it be that
shapeshifters have "other" senses which they use to navigate and
react to their environment?
[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ]
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 530

Posted 11-07-2001 01:52 PM (IP Logged)
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Juniper
Dedicated Fan

1. Interesting points about the sensory experiences of
shapeshifters, but I seem to recall Nasedo feeling pretty good about
knocking boots with Vanessa. I think there was some line about
internal organs, which is an interesting comment on the generative
power of the human body. O-chem people, can you provide any
scientific angle on this? Starfish and lizards regenerate
extremities. Humans don't grow a new appendix when one is taken out.
2. Good point: what, if anything, is different about Nasedo and
Langley? Langley is genetically programmed if not honor-bound to
obey the king. (side note, would he have to obey Mike/Iz too?)
3. No comment at this time -- but I'll think about it.
4. Evil King Max...I think our 'politics' threads last year covered
this angle well. The human and alien sides have always warred, most
notably in Michael and Tess.
I never quitte ascribed to the Tic-Tac theory, but I see that even
some red herrings turn out to be real fish. It all does seem to line
up with my earlier thought that Langley=good and Nasedo=bad.
However, if Langley didn't want to leave earth for the sheer reason
that he liked his human life, then my theory ain't so great after
all.
All things considered, I thought this was an excellent episode. I
too hear the sweet sound of an attempt at consistency.
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Posted 11-07-2001 01:57 PM (IP Logged)
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plumeria
Moderator
Roswell (1)

Assuming Langley is telling the truth about his Shapeshifting
history (and it would seem that he is, given his reluctance to shift
at the ship scene), I don't think he could be Tic-Tac. Langley said
he hadn't Shifted in years, in his efforts to experience human
senses.
--------------------
Plu's Fic
Harry kissed him so deeply that it almost hurt, not on his lips but
in his heart. (IP4)
Joined: May 2000 | Posts: 6724

Posted 11-07-2001 03:52 PM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

Okay, I went back to my tape. Here's the actual dialogue about the
senses.
Langley: I've learned to diminish my alienness.
Max: How?
Langley: I don't shapeshift. Haven't done it in years. Gives the
body organs a chance to function.
(Max is incredulous, Langley says not much happened for 30 years,
then in 1978 he smelled chlorine, then lemons, then nothing much in
the last 20 yrs.)
This got me to thinking about the time Max et al spent in the pods.
Maybe it was in order to "give the organs a chance to function"?
Juniper, here's a quote from White Room regarding shapeshifter
anatomy.
Nasedo: I can shape-shift into any of these agents: take their form,
even their fingerprints. That's why they added the X-ray scanner. My
bone structure is far from human. I can change my appearance, but
not what's on the inside. Your bone structure, on the other hand, is
one hundred percent human.
Michael: So you're different from me?
Nasedo: Biology lessons later.
***Someday I'm going to make it through a whole post without a typo.
But not today.
[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ]
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 530

Posted 11-07-2001 04:04 PM (IP Logged)
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Helios
New Fan
How do you build obedience for a certain person into DNA? Is that
really what was said during the episode? (I'm not glued to my VCR
right now...) Or is it a chip a-la-Spike over in Buffy-land? (Wow.
What a musical.)
Does anybody know enough about genetics to take a shot -- it would
seem to me to be a complex set of cognitive commands that would
render an individual completely obedient to another. Marvin Minsky
posits that, because of fundamental laws of communication, humans
and aliens would "both think similar ways" (and, for his argument,
therefore be able to communicate). Minsky's Article
But in this instance, we could use Minsky's argument to say that it
would take the same sort of mind control or command-control to
create an obedient alien as it would to make an obeident human. What
works on humans? Something in the vein of Spike's chip might be the
best and simplest tool, like the shock collars that some people put
on dogs to stop them from barking. In that case, Nasedo could have
been working against Max -- just at a cost of personal pain.
Regardless of the sci-fi/practical elements raised here, the moral
questions raised when you take away personal choice from an
individual are staggering. I guess it never dawned on me previously,
but now I really want to know more about a culture/kingdom that
would condone such an act, even in a "servant" role like the
protectors are.
Final thought: remember the end of first season, when Nasedo was in
the cave after the mom-o-gram? All Nasedo needed was a command from
Max and he turned into Agent Pierce. That scene corroborates how
Langley acted in this ep.
P.S.: Juniper, I agree, this was a well-written episode. Even though
some (if not all) situations seem contrived, it was good to see
character-based "pathos" throughout the cast. I'm still tuning in...
[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Helios ]
--------------------
"Guesses, of course, only guesses. If they are not true, something
better will be." -- C.S. Lewis, _Letters to Malcolm_
Login Name: Man of Colours | Joined: Oct 2001 | Posts: 5

Posted 11-07-2001 06:40 PM (IP Logged)
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richardken1
Dedicated Fan

While we are on the topic of Aliens and there senses, what about the
Skins.
Here are some selections from the transscripts.
From Surprise
1.
quote:
COURTNEY: Well, guys don't make cakes for just anybody. In fact,
guys don't make cakes at all.
(Courtney sticks her finger in the cake and tastes it)
MICHAEL: Hey.
COURTNEY: What flavor is this anyway?
MICHAEL: It's a combination of a few things.
COURTNEY: It tastes like Tabasco. Did you put Tabasco in a cake?
MICHAEL: Well, what if I did?
COURTNEY: I like that.
MICHAEL: Just move.
COURTNEY: So, what's a chick got to do to get a cake out of a guy
like you?
MICHAEL: Nothing you could handle.
(Courtney tastes the frosting)
COURTNEY: That's too bad. Mmm. You gonna frost it or what?
Establishes that Courtney has the sense of taste.
2.From ask not
quote:
(Michael just finished an order and waits for someone to pick it
up. Courtney walks over)
COURTNEY: So, Michael, how do you feel about piercings?
MICHAEL: I don't.
COURTNEY: You should think about it.
MICHAEL: Not into pain.
COURTNEY: Well, it only hurts once, then it's about the
stimulation.
Establishes that Courtney can feel pain.
Also in WHITAKER's journal from silverhandprint.com, this is from
memory, doesn't mention about the senses but does says the the
Skin's had problem adjusting to there skins. Motor control and
speaking were mentioned.
Just some things think about...
Kenneth
--------------------
http://roswelldirectory.roswellian.com/
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Posted 11-07-2001 11:22 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by plumeria:
...Luna, I don't recall anything about forming organs, but maybe I
missed something. ...
2. CONTROL. -- Oh, was that built into the DNA? I missed that. ...
I caught most of these 2, although my cable went wiggy just as he
said "organs" so I couldn't hear exactly what he said about organs,
but now it makes sense that they were "formed" by his choice not to
shapeshift.
And I appreciate the continuity of the control issue:
quote:
from Skin & Bones:
MAX: We're not killing anyone. That's an order.
NASEDO: As you wish.
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Posted 11-08-2001 01:32 PM (IP Logged)
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Juniper
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by Helios:
Regardless of the sci-fi/practical elements raised here, the moral
questions raised when you take away personal choice from an
individual are staggering. I guess it never dawned on me
previously, but now I really want to know more about a
culture/kingdom that would condone such an act, even in a
"servant" role like the protectors are.
[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Helios ]
Think of this country and its history of slave ownership. If slave
owners had been able to force loyalty and obedience through science
or technology, don't you think they would?
Juniper
Who thinks that her boss would really like to throw a chip in each
of her employees to force them to work harder and never ever go to
work for a competitor.
Joined: Oct 2000 | Posts: 172

Posted 11-08-2001 07:21 PM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

Kenneth, thanks for the info on Skins' biology.
Here's some info I dug up on regeneration. It's a little technical.
I found it atwww.hhmi.org/research/investigators/keating
quote:
Urodele amphibians and teleost fish have remarkable regenerative
capabilities. Newts, for example, can regenerate several
anatomical structures, including limbs, tail, eye lenses, retinas,
upper and lower jaws, dorsal crests, spinal cord, and heart
ventricle. Although the phenomenon of regeneration has fascinated
biologists for centuries, the molecular mechanisms underlying
regeneration are not understood. Furthermore, it is not clear why
mammals have limited regenerative abilities. Our laboratory has
recently begun to use molecular and genetic approaches in
zebrafish and newts to address these questions.
A key question is the problem of cellular plasticity and stem cell
formation. Terminally differentiated mammalian cells are thought
to be incapable of undergoing a reversal of cell differentiation.
These cells have permanently exited the cell cycle in response to
expression of cyclin-dependant kinase inhibitors, activation of
members of the retinoblastema family, and down-regulation of
cyclins and cyclin-dependant kinases. In addition, proteins
critical for cellular specialization have accumulated and driven
these cells to their final morphology and function.
By contrast, urodele amphibians show a remarkable plasticity in
cellular differentiation. During limb regeneration, cells
underlying the wound epithelium dedifferentiate to form a pool of
proliferating, progenitor cells known as the blastema. These cells
later redifferentiate and, in conjunction with endogenous
patterning signals, form a new limb.
In a series of experiments, we have demonstrated that terminally
differentiated murine myotubes can be induced to dedifferentiate.
Ectopic expression of the homeobox-containing transcriptional
repressor msx-1 coupled with growth medium can cause a reduction
in the levels of muscle differentiation proteins in mouse C2C12
myotubes. A subset of these myotubes cleave to produce a pool of
proliferating mononulceated cells that are capable of
redifferentiating into different cell types that express
characteristic markers of chondrogenesis, adipogenesis,
myogenesis, and osteogenesis. These results suggest that
terminally differentiated mammalian cells, like their urodele
counterparts, are capable of dedifferentiating to cells that are
like stem cells when challenged with the appropriate signals.
[ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ]
[B][/B]
[ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ]
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 530

Posted 11-08-2001 10:44 PM (IP Logged)
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cybercycle
Dedicated Fan

Luna G that is so cool! Thank you so much! Fascinating article. I
really appreciate it!
Login Name: laughingdragon | Joined: Oct 2001 | Posts: 204

Posted 11-09-2001 10:29 AM (IP Logged)
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cybercycle
Dedicated Fan

quote:
from Luna G
These results suggest that terminally differentiated mammalian
cells, like their urodele counterparts, are capable of
dedifferentiating to cells that are like stem cells when
challenged with the appropriate signals.
Just wanted to say again, Luna G how much I enjoyed your link to
http://www.hhmi.org/research/investigators/keating.html How did you
locate the site? Thanks again.
Login Name: laughingdragon | Joined: Oct 2001 | Posts: 204

Posted 11-09-2001 11:12 AM (IP Logged)
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Helios
New Fan
Luna G: Wow. Love the link. Great sleuthing. But Nasedo said he
couldn't replicate bone structure. I think many scientists believe
that the skeletal system is just another organ, as is the skin, etc.
(am I correct in this assumption?) -- wouldn't that imply that
Nasedo could have built a skeletal system as well?
And richardken1 does have some good questions about the skins. How
do their characteristics fit into all of this?
Juniper, re: slavery. Yes, you are correct that even Americans
during the time of slavery would have wielded technology to keep the
servant or slave class in its place. Some say that the rich still
use technology (or information?) to maintain the great economic
divide. But I was hoping (maybe this is the Star-Trek-utopian-dream)
that a more developed or enlightened (definitely technologically,
maybe not ethically?) culture would have come to regard individuals
with more respect. Or am I simply projecting my own value system on
a culture that I don't fully understand?
--------------------
"Guesses, of course, only guesses. If they are not true, something
better will be." -- C.S. Lewis, _Letters to Malcolm_
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Posted 11-09-2001 12:26 PM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by cybercycle:
Just wanted to say again, Luna G how much I enjoyed your link to
http://www.hhmi.org/research/investigators/keating.html How did
you locate the site? Thanks again.
Just random web searching...I got the link at excite.com. I really
like the part at the end, where it talks about "when challenged with
the appropriate signals". I'm not sure why, it just sets my
imagination humming. The mysterious power of life in all its variety
and the thought that we are more resilient than we think. All we
need are the appropriate signals.
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 530

Posted 11-09-2001 12:35 PM (IP Logged)
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Juniper
Dedicated Fan

Very interesting research. It occurs to me also that the "greyling"
form is much more close in resemblance to amphibians and reptiles
than mammals. Overdeveloped eyes, smooth hairless flesh,
nonprotruding noses. Tissue generation -- which would seem to offer
quite a bit in terms of evolutionary advantage -- might be added to
that list as well.
Joined: Oct 2000 | Posts: 172

Posted 11-09-2001 12:49 PM (IP Logged)
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richardken1
Dedicated Fan

My theory is that since the "skins" that the Skins wore are made of
human genetic material that they act more than a protective suit,
but allow the Skins to interface with there environment. That is it
not only protects them but gives them a template on being human so
they can interact with the world like a human.
just my two bits
Kenneth
[ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: richardken1 ]
--------------------
http://roswelldirectory.roswellian.com/
Joined: May 00 | Posts: 414

Posted 11-09-2001 03:28 PM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

Kenneth, I really like the point you're raising here. There's a
difference between existing in a spacesuit and living on a planet.
Does anyone remember from Harvest how long it took for the new husks
for grow? I'm still thinking about organ formation. Check this out.
Hybrids: spent 40 years in pods, we don't know why
Skins: live in husks that take many years to grow
Shapeshifters: develop organs very slowly, over 30 years, via
maintaining the same shape
In each case, there is a long time period involved. This is
interesting to me, and seems connected.
Remember in Surprise:
Congresswoman Whitaker: Your kind doesn't rule anymore.
Isabel: I'm not one of you.
Whitaker (talks about Vilandra and Kivar, then says): "for him...for
us...you betrayed your brother, your race. "
Last year, someone came up with a theory that the skins were a
different species than King Zan and family, that there may have been
as many as five different species for the five planets. I've been
assuming that theory was correct. But I'm considering abandoning the
multiple-species model for the Antar system. I think it's possible
that you've got just one species utilizing different methods for
living on earth. All greylings, with one of the following
adaptations:
1. genetically hybridized with human DNA
2. genetically engineered for biological adaptation via tissue
generation
3. inhabiting a bioengineered husk
and let's not forget 4. possession of a prepared human subject (for
short periods only)
What do you think?
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 530

Posted 11-09-2001 06:39 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by Luna G:
...Does anyone remember from Harvest how long it took for the new
husks for grow? I'm still thinking about organ formation....
50 years.
quote:
Last year, someone came up with a theory that the skins were a
different species than King Zan and family, that there may have
been as many as five different species for the five planets. I've
been assuming that theory was correct.
But ...I think it's possible that you've got just one species
utilizing different methods for living on earth. All greylings,
with one of the following adaptations:...
What do you think?
Luna, I always thought the multi-adaption theory was more likely.
But on Roswell, all things are possible--even flying blue jelly fish
:::grimace:::
[ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ]
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2539

Posted 11-09-2001 07:46 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan

I'm not sure, but I think this thread is getting buggy.
Anyway, here's the rest of my post:
quote:
Last year, someone came up with a theory that the skins were a
different species than King Zan and family, that there may have
been as many as five different species for the five planets. I've
been assuming that theory was correct.
But ...I think it's possible that you've got just one species
utilizing different methods for living on earth. All greylings,
with one of the following adaptations:...
What do you think?
Luna, I always thought the multi-adaption theory was more likely.
But on Roswell, all things are possible--even flying blue jelly fish
:::grimace:::
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2544

Posted 11-09-2001 11:02 PM (IP Logged)
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QueenAmidala01
Obsessed Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by Romeo:
I've been thinking about how did the FBI get the spaceship out of
there too, but two things come to mind:
1) How did they get it in there? Even if they reconstructed it
there, there must be any other secret hall or SOMETHING in there.
Max should have explored the place, but he couldn't, first because
of the police and then because of his dad. Now he can't go back
there until he's 21.
2) Maybe it wasn't the FBI who took the spaceship out there. Maybe
it wasn't even the FBI who reconstructed it. Maybe someone else
stole it and hid it there. The words "other" and "shapeshifter"
come to mind....
Germán
[ 10-11-2001: Message edited by: Romeo ]
maybe the men in black came took the ship out and in the end got the
little probe thingy flashed it and erased peoples memories
--------------------
"When humans want rides they take Jetta's.
When tess want a ride she takes her tractor
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 1934

Posted 11-10-2001 09:41 AM (IP Logged)
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Luna G
Loyal Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by QueenAmidala01:
maybe the men in black came took the ship out and in the end got
the little probe thingy flashed it and erased peoples memories
Nope, Tess did it.
--------------------
Luna G
The hardest part is leaving Earth behind.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 531

Posted 11-10-2001 05:24 PM (IP Logged)
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QueenAmidala01
Obsessed Fan

quote:
Originally Posted by Juniper:
Yeah, I think he says as much in the restroom scene when he tells
her that since he's forgiven her, and he's just a part of her,
then she's forgiven herself. This is obviously just a paraphrase.
What's interesting is that not only does Colin get more screen
time now that he's dead, he and Isabel have a deeper relationship
too.
Seeing ghosts, however, may be another fringe benefit of
heightened parapsychological powers. I do tend to think that Max's
ghost dad was a figment of his imagination, but I would be willing
to stand corrected.
To tell or not to tell...aside the fact that I think marrying
someone you've known for 3 months (at eighteen, no less) is a
serious error in judgement, telling Jesse is a terrible mistake --
for all the reasons Max stated and more.
I am duly impressed that Luna pulled up some discussion points in
what I thought was a relatively light episode.
i believe that the Alex and Dad ghosts were real........i mean just
because u see someone talking to thin air when in fact what they are
seeing is a ghost doesnt mean that it is their imagination
in the sixth sense only cole could see the ghosts nobody else
could...was it his imagination.....no
max saw the dad ghost.......who when max entered brody's house the
ghost told him that the girl had a relapse and was taken to
hospital. Max didnt know that but the dad ghost did.
so i believe that they were really ghosts
--------------------
"When humans want rides they take Jetta's.
When tess want a ride she takes her tractor
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 1934

Posted 11-10-2001 06:16 PM (IP Logged)
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pieface
Loyal Fan

Just a few thoughts I thought might fit on this thread.
This ship went from being under a convenience store in Utah to an
AFB in Los Angeles area. I personally would love for there to be a
"cloaking mechanism" but I think it was dismantled and trucked to
CA probably in a couple of large vans and then reassembled at the
AFB. The Government went to an awful lot of trouble to move it . The
General (?) said because of national security he could not tell
Langley where it was or did he tell Langley they wouldn't say where
it was. At any rate, I believe Langley was able to see in the
General's mind where the ship was being kept when he asked him where
it was. This rings of the same technique Isabel used getting into
Pierce's mind in Destiny at Tess' prompting ("if you can just get in
you will see his answer") as to where they were holding Nasedo's
body. I believe Langley is more practiced at this skill. Isabel's
dreamwalking, Tess' mindwarping all seem to be in the same vein.
Liz, at one point was developing this skill when she appeared before
Max in MTTC. Also too, Langley knew Max was talking to his mother on
the phone. Langley was not there when Max said "hi Mom" and IMO was
not eavesdropping when he said it. When he was asking Max those
questions in the screening room, he was seeing his answers were
true, especially when he asked Max who he was working for. Perhaps
there is still another race of aliens out there. I believe Langley
has the ability to read minds. I hope he returns someday - he was
kinda cool for a murdering shapeshifter
Shapeshifter I made it!
[ 11-10-2001: Message edited by: pieface ]
Joined: Mar 00 | Posts: 907

Posted 11-10-2001 07:28 PM (IP Logged)
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richardken1
Dedicated Fan

If you want to review Whitaker Diary you can access it from this
URL: http://www.silverhandprint.com/ufl/index.html
Kenneth
--------------------
http://roswelldirectory.roswellian.com/
Joined: May 00 | Posts: 416

Posted 11-11-2001 12:40 AM (IP Logged)
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MoonFire
Moderator
Roswell (1)

Yep its wiggyu as all get out - I'll close this and ask that y'all
start the next one
Thanks
~Moon~
--------------------
Reach for the stars,
They are only a heartbeat away.
Joined: Nov 99 | Posts: 2554

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