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| Topic Subject: The Science Fiction of Roswell, part 2 |
| Posted 11-11-2001 08:33
AM by Luna G
Our last thread succumbed to bugs. So here's the new one. This thread is a place to discuss science fiction elements of the show. Observations about the science of the show, links to real life science, speculation about what it all means, etc. All are welcome to join in. After each new episode, I will post a recap with a few salient science fiction discussion points, just to get the ball rolling. It should be up by 11:00pm Pacific Time. We don't have a lot of rules here. This thread has traditionally been shipper-neutral, so please respect that. Be kind to your fellow posters. Some comments from the last thread:
In case anyone missed it, richardken1 posted a link to Whitaker's silverhandprint diary at the bottom of the last thread. More about the skins adaptation to their "skins". [ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
| Posted 11-11-2001 12:02
PM by pieface
Luna G Thank you, but I will have to back off on one thing I said. Last night I rewatched the kitchen scene with Max & Langley and Max did say "Mom" once when Langley was actually in the kitchen. This does not change my mind however, I still believe Langley can read minds when he asks questions. OK, back to lurk mode |
| Posted 11-11-2001 08:03
PM by shapeshifter
Oh, here we are. Pie, I am sure they actually used the word "cloaked" on the show this season in reference to the spaceship. And of course I thought of you! Anyone catch it? And I do think they certainly gave Langely enough mind-readerish lines in that ep to foreshadow the revealing of such a power. Recall Nicholas' "mind raping" abilities? And as someone pointed out (I think on the Liz Myth Thread?), Langely talks on the phone to an agent whom he addresses as "Nikki, Baby." hmmm.... BTW I've saved the last thread and will archive it shortly if Vihmakass hasn't already. And the Season 2 discussions can be seen at: The Sci Fi of Roswell S2 [ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
Posted 11-11-2001 11:24
PM by Luna G
quote: Did they really? I'm going to have to go hunting for that!! The whole film archive scene makes so much more sense if you assume that Langley is searching telepathically for Max's answers. I like this theory so much. It's also got me thinking that Langley wasn't sure that Max was really Max. Who wants to bet there are still other shapeshifters drifting about on Earth? Other than our own beloved shapeshifter, of course. Does that ever get confusing for you? |
Posted 11-12-2001 07:13
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Yes! Especially if I want to do an Edit/Search to find responses to "shapeshifter" or if I want to find posts about shapeshifters--and I don't mean me! And "beloved"? aw shucks! Okay, I am starting code and load the Page Ones of old Sci Fi threads
saved by Charliegrrl and Nemo. I'm not sure if I already posted the link,
but here's the Sci Fi of Blind
Date thread, page one. And thanks to healersbabe for Web space and enouragement, Vihmakass for both of those and html help, and Qfanny too, for writing and encouragement. [ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] [ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 11-13-2001 02:17
AM by BumbleBeeM
ok peoples i cant get u much info on s3 since in austrlia we havent finished season 2 so bare with me |
| Posted 11-13-2001 09:30
PM by shapeshifter
First I have to say that I Loved the sci fi of this ep--well except for some of the Kvar parts. But did we all laugh out loud at: "Bad news, Maxwell. Jessie Ramirez is human...nice red blood cells--not a green one in the bunch." heh heh snicker, okay: but is Michael being sarcastic, or do they have green cells? I thought we cleared that one up a long time ago when we saw Liz dyeing them green? And what did Jessie really think of Max's magic steak? |
| Posted 11-13-2001 11:50
PM by Luna G
The Science Fiction of To Have and To Hold. It’s official. Jesse’s part of the family now. What did Max say? "I think you’ll find it’s going to be an interesting experience…" Yeah. Starting with the honeymoon. I think Jesse is up for a rough initiation into the "I know an alien" club. Other than that, a sweet, romantic wedding episode. Family and friends bonding. Making up. Doing nice things for each other. The parents are even coming around. Except there’s one little problem. 1. KIVAR! The enemy we’ve all been waiting for. Kivar shows up in a) a waking vision, b) several of Isabel’s dreams, and c) live and in person at Isabel’s wedding. This despite the fact that he is purportedly on another planet far, far away. And an alien. How did he get to Earth? Is he really here? Can he taste the wine? Questions, questions. Lots of room for speculation here. 2. MAGIC STEAKS. Oh yeah, I’m sure Jesse didn’t notice his nose went from broken to not broken in 3 seconds. Okay, I think the thing to do with this one is take bets on how many weeks until Jesse is in on the secret. Sheesh. Be a little more obvious, Max. Yeah, well that’s pretty much it. Tune in next week, same bat time, same bat channel for all sorts of sci fi goodness. I think watching Buffy before Roswell may be having an impact on my vocabulary. Discuss away! Edited to say: shapeshifter, guess you beat me to it on the
"magic steak". I guess we could also add that Isabel managed to add a
seamless six inches to her mother's wedding dress. [ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
Posted 11-14-2001 06:43
AM by shapeshifter
quote:Luna, dragged this over from the Liz Myth thread:
quote: quote: |
| Posted 11-14-2001 07:26
AM by AlexEvans
I'm just now returning to Ros1, after the arbitrary closing of the thread I used to post on, so if I'm repeating points already made please pardon me (and feel free to tell me). Tess left Earth for Antar using the Granolith. Maybe Kivar came back the same way? It was implied at the end of season 2 it was a one-shot deal, but for most of season 2 represented as something extremely powerful, so I'm inclined to find this likely. This would mean the Granolith is back on Earth. Which would mean time travel is available. Which means they can bring Alex back. After Kivar kills Jesse of course. That's the physical SF that occurs to me. The second interesting speculation is on powers. Kivar appeared to be dreamwalking her. Are the mental powers of dreamwalking, Mindwarping (illusions plus mind control - maybe they are separate powers but Tess could do both?), and Mind Rape linked? Which of these can Kivar do? Which of these can Isabel do? For that matter, if Nicholas, Ava or Lonnie reappear, which can they do? |
| Posted 11-14-2001 03:29
PM by Luna G
Hi AlexEvans and welcome back. I hope you stick around. The Granolith back on Earth. That'd be cool. I was very disappointed to
lose the time machine/transporter at the end of last season. But we'll
still need to explain why Kivar has a human shape. Here are the options I
can think of: |
| Posted 11-14-2001 04:45
PM by Helios
Luna, how about this option: 6) Kivar is mindwarping the entire episode, and we'll find out at the end of next week's episode that this was _all_ a dream and the wedding hasn't happened yet? Seriously, though, I agree with Shapeshifter, et al, when you say it's only a matter of minutes before Jesse finds out. I thought he would have stared in disbelief at the magic steak for a few seconds longer... |
Posted 11-14-2001 08:58
PM by richardken1
quote: 1) Kivar is on earth using a "skin". Any option that doesn't have Kivar invading earth before steping on it ,in my opinion, is dumb. 4) Kivar isn't there at all and this is a heavy-duty mindwarp by Tess, Nicholas, Ava, Lonnie, etc. possible, but not likely.
Most logical. Mess with Isabel/Vilandra from the safety of the home planet. Lowest risk for biggest reward. Kenneth |
| Posted 11-14-2001 09:45
PM by shapeshifter
I am intrigued by the idea that Kvar is both in the dream realm and the physical. What will show up on Kyle's video tape? A black hole would be cool. About Michael's version of 9-ball: In a post-Tiger Woods world, is anything really statistically impossible? Or was the Harvardian just suffering from a dented ego? |
| Posted 11-15-2001 12:01
AM by Luna G
Statistically impossible? No way. That guy was just blowing smoke. Let's think about it logically. Statistician status aside, in any system where there are random elements, you'll always have events that occur outside of the probability curve. Like the coin that lands on edge. Statistically impossible? Maybe. Impossible? I don't think so.
quote: Kenneth, of course you're right that this is the most logical. But, hey, this is TV land we're talking about. People do stupid things all the time. [ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
| Posted 11-15-2001 12:15
AM by Calenhíril
Wow, you guys make some really good points in here. I'll have to check back more often! Ita Luna about the steak. If he'd just said, "keep this on for fifteen minutes or so. . ." then it might be a little more reasonable. . . The Khivar angle is intriguing. I can't wait to see how they handle this. I like the "black hole on the camera screen" wouldn't that be cool! And maybe the granolith is back on Earth? hmmm. . . I need b/c I'm doing some major so later, folks! luv, Etoiline |
| Posted 11-15-2001 01:04
AM by carsonb
I just found this thread recently and I love it. i just want to say that I think Kivar is doing the possession thing ala Brody. But I like the idea of the granolith being back on Earth or maybe it never really left. This is my spec, but I never bought the whole baby can't survive on Earth story and I don't think that Tess ever really left. Maybe Kivar is coming because he thinks that Tess has failed in getting pregnant and is going to take matters in his own hands. I don't know, I just can't believe that their not going to bring Tess back and tie up that storyline. They're making too much of a big deal of Max finding his son not to bring her back and the easiet way to do that is for her not to have left at all. Sorry of the run on sentences and off topicness of post. Carson |
Posted 11-15-2001 11:13
AM by Juniper
quote: Nice catch...I did not attribute how well the dress fit to alien powers. I thought it was TV contrivance. I'm happy to be wrong. I really can't believe this wedding actually came off. I suppose Jesse has to die now. As for the amazing beef, yep, they've pretty much made Jesse dumb as a post, but I suppose one can say the same for Bangs and Merry Mason (sorry, I've been reading a lot of MBTV lately). Your kids go around bringing dead birds back to life and changing weather patterns, and you don't think something's funky about that? That's it for now, but I'll be back shortly. Thanks for starting the new thread, I can't believe I found it. |
| Posted 11-15-2001 03:33
PM by zmeister
Hey y'all, just like to give you my take on Kivar. I have to agree with the logic that Kivar is not on Earth. If he was he is breaking the 1st rule of dictatorship: Never leave home during a rebellion! If he is on Earth either the rebellion is over and he rules or he has been ousted. I believe that he is using someone ala Brody to get to Isabel but with a twist. Only Isabel is able to see Kivar for who he is, everyone else sees the person he has taken over. Kyle says that he saw a "man" dancing with Isabel. If he saw the person we saw I would think he would be a bit more curious about who he was. Also when Isabel is looking for Kivar when he leaves, you see a gray haired(I think-no tape to check)man walk away. I just have to ask the question."Why come for Isabel?" Logically the answer would be to get to Max as before. If he was really there, he could have killed Max easily and that would be that! But as someone said in TVLAND people do stupid things and logic seldom rules. |
| Posted 11-15-2001 05:51
PM by twilightlurker
De-lurking. Just wanted to mention the "Ed" thing again. That's the guy on the other side of the line that Isabel was yelling at in the begining of 2H&2H, because the place settings weren't delivered when they were supposed to. What is it with the writers and "Ed". Is there already a theory about this? Bye |
Posted 11-15-2001 06:10
PM by shapeshifter
quote:I didn't see a gray-haired man, but this would definitely fit with the plot and set-up. They showed Kyle repeatedly with the VCR--surely the tape must be significant to plot development. And Kyle definitely saw "the man" she "was dancing with," so there's another witness if Kvar does not look Kvar-ish to others. Maybe he doesn't need an heir from Isabel, but rather the opposite. Now that he has SPOT, he may just want to prevent Isabel from having chidren. |
| Posted 11-15-2001 07:03
PM by zmeister
SS: makes sense to me as well. Kivar has the heir to legitamize his rule as a regent. I suppose that if Isabel & Max were dealt with there would be no other possible claimnants to the throne. |
Posted 11-15-2001 07:14
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Hmmm...well, give us a sec & we'll think of one. How 'bout: "Ed" as in "Edsedo?"
quote:So this would go back to the idea of Kvar wanting to have an Isabel baby. Also, it would be alien/alien. [ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
Posted 11-15-2001 10:59
PM by Luna G
quote: Taking matters into his own hands. I think this is a key concept for Kivar's motivation. While we as viewers can see the bumbling mistakes of our hybrid friends, what has Kivar seen? 50 years ago, he killed King Zan and company and thought he won the war. Instead, he's struggled through half a century of battle and bloodshed. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown. He sends people to kill the hybrids made from salvaged DNA, but they can't find them anywhere. Finally, they turn up in Roswell, New Mexico. Despite the fact that Nicholas is 100x stronger than Max (purportedly), he fails to get the granolith from Max. The skins fail to destroy Max, and *may* (we'll probably never know) have all been destroyed themselves. Despite the fact that Kivar has convinced Nasedo to betray Max, Tess fails to bring Max, Michael & Isabel with her to Antar, if she in fact got there, and if, in fact the child is real. This is not a successful series of missions. If I were Kivar, I'd want to take matters into my own hands too. And...
quote: When things aren't going well, people tend to revert to what worked before. Isabel/Vilandra is a vulnerable target and Kivar knows it. Okay, that's my two bits for today... Oh, Helios, meant to say that if they go with #6, "this was all a dream and the wedding hasn't happened yet", I'll be very |
Posted 11-16-2001 03:03
PM by Juniper
quote: Hmmm...interesting. You're right, I would think a spawn of Isabel would be in line for the throne eventually. Couldn't be that he just showed up because he's such a romantic guy and all, like in that Jetta commercial with the poor man's James Spader. |
Posted 11-16-2001 03:08
PM by Juniper
quote: I don't think that's really a twist. Because of the dreams, Isabel intuits that he is Kivar. She still "sees" the hot guy just like everybody else, but she "feels" that he's her ex because she's creeped out by him. (By this time on a Friday, I'm amazed I can string two thoughts together, so bear with me.) |
| Posted 11-16-2001 03:24
PM by zmeister
I understand this thinking but I would think that if a good looking guy that NO one knows comes up and dances with the bride someone would ask -Who was that? Kyle did not seem the least bit interested about his identity. I wonder if any other of Isabels friends and family "saw" him. Wouldn't you be curious? That why I thought that everybody else may have seen just some "man" while only Isabel could see his real essence. |
| Posted 11-16-2001 04:19
PM by Juniper
At a wedding, with lots of friends, family and acquaintances, it's easy for people to slip in and out unnoticed, and there would be plenty of people even your best friends don't recognize. Sure only Isabel could identify him as Kivar, but she's the only one he communicated with. I can't fathom that Kyle or anyone else would see the guy dancing and think, "Hey, who's that? Oh, it must be Isabel's ex-lover from another planet, the one who rules the kingdom now. Nice of him to come all this way for the wedding. I'm sure he's a busy guy." OT, I just looked at the full list of smilies for the first time. People sure have a lot of time on their hands, eh? |
| Posted 11-16-2001 04:38
PM by Luna G
I have to agree with Juniper. There were people at my wedding that I didn't recognize. Guests of other guests or friends of the other family. That's why people are able to crash wedding receptions. |
| Posted 11-16-2001 05:14
PM by zmeister
True with large weddings of maybe 200+. My guess this wedding had maybe 100 tops. With Ma & Pa Evans dead set against this wedding I doubt they invited anybody. Plus many do watch the bride dance to get their turn. One point about what Kivar is wearing. When Isabel sees him, he is wearing the same outfit. As I recall on the promos, he is still wearing the same thing! I think this helps to reinforce the idea that only Isabel can see him because she sees the same way all the time--in her dreams at her wedding and the day after. |
| Posted 11-16-2001 07:23
PM by richardken1
IF kivar has the ability to dreamwalk isabel, he may also may have the abilty to mindwarp. Both abilties would come in handy on earth. Kenneth |
Posted 11-16-2001 08:08
PM by shapeshifter
quote:ITA, Juniper. The groom's side would think he belonged to the bride's family, and the bride's friends would think he was from the groom's side. BTW, FF is in serious $$. See more at FF Blackout 11/20 - 11/21 |
| Posted 11-17-2001 04:44
PM by AlexEvans
Thanks, I'm glad to be back. Although I don't care much for Ros1 I think I will stay for this thread. I think Kivar is really on Earth. In the dreamwalk, he looked the same. Now maybe he's mindwarping... but that seems like a lot of unnecessary work. The simplest explanation is that the reason he looks the same when dreamwalking her and in real life, is that he's on Earth with his own body - something he couldn't do before now, because he didn't have the Granolith. The point about the rebellion makes sense, so I think we have to conclude it's pretty much dead. All of the other rulers in MITC wanted Max and the others to surrender (the deal Nicholas offered was surrender, barely disguised at all) to Kivar, I don't think they would have except they were sure Kivar was winning anyway.
As for why he's come - maybe Max and Tess' kid didn't make it. Maybe he wants a 'heir and a spare.' Or maybe he's just here for Isabel. Vilandra thought Kivar loved her; maybe she wasn't completely wrong, although it is clearly a dark possessive love. I don't find it hard to imagine someone traveling to another planet to find Isabel. (Of course, I want Kivar to actually be on Earth because that way the Granolith is to. Maybe if I didn't want that so much I'd be more open to the possession idea a la Larek.) I wonder if Lonnie is going to show up again? I'd think Kivar would be just as interested in her. |
| Posted 11-17-2001 10:27
PM by shapeshifter
IMAGE: ulink.net/plum/Roswell/stuff/aliendsk.gif |
Posted 11-17-2001 10:49
PM by overtherainbow31
quote: Not to mention writers. gasp (Did I actually say that out loud?) Not knocking them, I honestly am in love and obsessed with Roswell... Warning! I'm a lurker and basically have nothing to contribute except mindless psychobabble. So here goes... Not to be spoilerish (and I have a feling I'm a little late in the game-Hello everyone!) but from articles I've read Jesse is going to be blissfully oblivious for a long time. I'm just going to do the same and not harp on it. Told you I have nothing to contribute. Maybe next time... OTR31 [ 11-17-2001: Message edited by: overtherainbow31 ] |
Posted 11-19-2001 10:47
AM by Juniper
quote: Interesting point, but babies dying seems like it would be a bit beyond the auspices of good taste for our writers.
quote: This is the last of the multiple choice items, I suppose: he's here because he loves her. This would be a major departure from what we've known until now about the chartacter. I for one can't buy it. |
| Posted 11-19-2001 12:52
PM by Luna G
Maybe not a happily ever after kind of love, but a dark possessive love as AlexEvans suggested? I could see it. Assume Kivar a guy who wants power: both political and personal. Life for the power seeker is a series of quests. Attaining the "perfect woman" would only be another way of proving that he is powerful. |
| Posted 11-19-2001 01:19
PM by JayJay
Just wanted to say that I love this thread & have been lurking but haven't posted in about a year.
quote: I have always felt that the Granolith would not go back to Antar without Max. There had to be a program that wouldn't let it return with out Max. My theory is that, Max did start the Granolith up but(as we all know)didn't get on. So, when the ship took off the program kicked in(no Max, no go). Was it just me or when the granolith took off did it seemed to be out of control(didn't look like it would make it out of the desert let alone off the planet). I have always felt that Max's son didn't make it to Antar. If that's the case Kivar believes that Tess has failed and decided to take things into his own hands. [ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: JayJay ] |
Posted 11-19-2001 04:19
PM by Juniper
quote: I thought the same thing, but I attributed it to "it's the end of the season and the special effects budget is gone" (rather like the alien jellyfish cartoon). |
Posted 11-19-2001 07:04
PM by zmeister
quote: Well in the promos for Departure the "launch" of the Granilith looked different from what was actually seen in the episode. The launch in the promo looked liked something that left in a hurry in a straight line up to the heavens while in the episode it looked like a runaway gerbil. |
| Posted 11-22-2001 01:21
AM by Luna G
The Science Fiction of Interruptus. I looked up Interruptus in my Webster’s Unabridged. Turns out it’s a Latin word which means to break apart. That sets up the episode nicely. Kivar must be here to separate Isabel from Jesse. Or is it to separate Isabel from Max and Michael? Or is it to separate Isabel from Vilandra? Lots of choices here. This episode kept me on the edge of my seat. Suspenseful, exciting. I thought I would hate the whole parents subplot, but it’s got me hooked. And Kivar—yeah. He’s a good bad guy. Next Tuesday seems a long way off. Here are some themes from this week’s episode. I can’t wait to hear what you all think. 1. CHANNELING VILANDRA. What is the nature of a soul? Can two souls inhabit the same body? On a metaphysical level, it’s been implied that Isabel is a reincarnated version of Vilandra—an old soul given a fresh chance to live and make better choices the second time around. But in this episode, Isabel and Vilandra appeared to be battling for dominance. So are we still talking about reincarnation? Or something else? If memories from that former life exist intact within Isabel, Michael and Max, are the personalities also intact, buried beneath the surface? This could have some profound implications for future storylines. So what determines which personality wins out? Oh, and I just have to say it. Black eyeballs? The eyes are the windows of the soul, some have said. Why the physical change? 2. A WOLF IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING. Kivar is possessing an innocent guy. Great. Glad we got that cleared up. But there were some things that didn’t seem quite right about the possession scenario. Did you notice how Kivar seemed to jump about as if he either had super-speed or insta-teleport abilities? One minute he’s by the bar, and the next, he’s in front of Isabel. He swooshes past Jesse in the steam room, and then he’s gone. Then he’s back. Normally I would take this as a sign that he wasn’t really there, call it a mindwarp, hallucination, vision, etc. But if he’s in possession (albeit temporary) of a human body, he must really be present, right? Call it possession plus. I don’t really know what to make of this. Any takers? And let’s not forget the inescapable moral question. What do you do if your enemy is housed in the body of an innocent? Max and Michael got a pass on this one, but I’ll bet you dollars to donuts the subject will come up again. After all—this guy Denny? He’s a local. 3. ONE TO BEAM UP. Forget spaceships. They’re so passe. We’ve got a brand spanking new technology. A wave of the hand, step right in and go…did you notice how Isabel/Vilandra didn’t even ask if it was safe? Now I would have asked if it was safe. So what are we talking about here? What is this thing?…Personal wormhole?… Matter transporter? I can’t help wondering why Kivar and company needed the Granolith when they had this. Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone! And don’t forget to support Fan Forum if you’re so inclined. The blackout reminded me of how much I appreciate this site. It’s one of the things I’m thankful for.
[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
| Posted 11-22-2001 05:31
AM by plumeria
One thing I noticed about Danny's possession.... Larek is always going on about how Brody's body can't sustain the possession for very long, because it's very taxing. And yet Khivar kept Danny going without any apparent side effects for several days. Danny seemed merely (and understandably) disoriented, but not bone-exhausted when Khivar left him. CHAD, or something different about Khivar?
What do you think the sci-fi significance of Vilandra's all-black eyes is? Imitation of the large-eyed greyling look? Something else? Ok, I'm off to the lion's den ... er ... I mean, I'm off to spend the next 2 days with my in-laws. (Nice people, but they drive me bonkers. ) Assuming I haven't lost my marbles by then, I'll be back Fri night. Happy Thanksgiving to all our American Sci-Fi posters! [ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: plumeria ] |
Posted 11-22-2001 06:55
AM by shapeshifter
quote:Zero questioned this too in an email. A CHAD? Probably. But this is a New Season on a New Network, so we are allowed (I think ) such liberties. But never fear, shapshifter is here to explain all with a wave of her mouse over the keyboard: Hmmm...Obviously the "New Technology" includes Possession Plus. Plu, you can explain that to the CHADs for me after you get back from your outlaws' (who can't possibly drive you any more batty than us RBIs ). Oh, and be sure to tell them that possessed guys can alter drinks, so be careful what and where you eat/drink over the holidays.
quote:Ahh, "New" is the key word here. It's the 2002 model and was just released. Plus, since Kvar wasn't sure if Roswell was going to have a 2002 season...
quote:I'll buy that. What about the blue 'twinkle' in her eye? Is that attractive to greylings? So, what triggered Mikey G's Antarian memory? The presence of Vilondra? I guess that could do it. Although Max's look at his 'sister' after their hug had a much higher "whoa" factor rating. |
| Posted 11-22-2001 12:40
PM by AlexEvans
I loved the ep! SF, humor, and finally an Isabel episode! (I don't count eps where she got screentime but no plot. Interruptus was the first Isabel centered ep of the season... well THTH had a some good stuff too I guess.) I'm inclined to believe a lot can be explained if Kivar now has the Granolith; the new method of transportation, his ability to possess Denny for a long period of time... all make sense given that he now possesses such an important, powerful object. Since he sstill possesses it and Denny is a local I'm hoping he comes back soon! The Vilandra thing is weird. I don't understand it. And would Isabel have been physically transferred back to Antar? Would Vilandra's soul have gone with Kivar, leaving Isabel back in control of her body? Maybe this is helps explain what's been happening to Max. Could Zan (the original one) be influencing his more extreme acts of villainy in this season and last season? |
Posted 11-22-2001 04:41
PM by shapeshifter
quote:I too was wondering about this. If you rewatch the episode, Max & Michael make a big deal out of
Kvar kissing Isabel passionately as being not part of the plan. It is
right after this that she gets the Outer Space Eyes. I think there was
some flash/connection during the kiss. This would be consistent with
Season 1's Sci Fi of Kissing . Also, recall a couple of weeks ago that Michael cautioned Isabel that Jessie would notice she was 'different' after they consumated their relationship; then, when they finally did, Jessie says, "That Was Different." So I guess the Sci Fi of Alien Sex is the broad category, and kissing is the subset. Of course, since JK is using Sci Fi to create metaphors for teen angst dilemmas, this is all good. Also: Denny falls out of the Wormhole in the same manner that Kal's human body falls out of the crashed space ship in Control. Hmmm... [ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
Posted 11-24-2001 01:49
AM by Luna G
quote: I'm inclined to believe that her body would have gone too. Here's my logic: It looked as if Denny's body actually vanished and reappeared. I think he was transported to Antar and back again, sans Kivar. Possession seems to be a short term technology, so it's not as if the Vilandra essence can just hop into a new body, at least not long term. She needs Isabel's body. (If in fact she is separate or can be separated from Isabel. I'm not convinced of that yet.)
quote: Ok, I'll take a crack at this one. How about the drink Kivar doctored? Maybe it affected him with more than indigestion. Like when people drink too much and can't remember what they did the night before. Except Jesse got to experience it without the falling down, looking like an idiot part. As for Max being able to mindwarp, well that would be a big old CHADDy mess. At risk of repeating myself, I'll say it again, being all-powerful is boring. I like it when the different aliens have different strengths and weaknesses. Kind of like the Superfriends, yeah. |
| Posted 11-24-2001 11:08
PM by shapeshifter
Luna, I think Jessie just finds it easier to believe that his memories are the result of a doctored drink from a bad man. After all, it also is a terrific excuse for why he didn't manage to consumate on the first night. Okay, the last thread is now archived here. |
Posted 11-26-2001 11:18
AM by ghani
quote: And what if Vilandra's soul would have gone with Khivar, it neeeds a body but Isabel is on earth. Do the have clons or such on Antar? What about Khivars powers? If it is Danny's body and Khivar is just possesing him he shouldn't have such powers. He messed with Jesse's drink and the whole moving like aghost or whatever it was. I don't quite get it all together. |
| Posted 11-26-2001 03:23
PM by AlexEvans
It would appear that Aliens can use their powers through people they are possessing. Very handy, though strange. It reinforces my theory that they have to start with a physical abduction, to make it possible for possession - maybe they also do something to give the body the potential for powers. Like healing it of cancer... Brody may be changed, like Liz. Even more than Liz, he has never attempted to use powers so he doesn't know what he can do. (Besides disappear, a talent he shares with Alex, Kyle, Sean and Amy.) I'm inclined to believe that Vilandra and Isabel are not separable, but this whole thing is too weird to be sure of anything even if Roswell were consistent. |
| Posted 11-26-2001 05:31
PM by Juniper
Whaddya mean the boards are overloaded??? I sent a check, da*&%$!
quote: Two thoughts, related: I thought Isabel was faking the big black doll eyes thing. Personally, I thought she was playing along throughout the whole scene. I also thought Mikey G was taking a stab in the dark (albeit a well-reasoned one) about Khivar murdering the R4. His hunch was correct. As for the body/soul duality: we never really established this with Tess either. Now that she's back on Antar, is she a platinum blonde goddess walking amongst greylings or whatever the heck these beings really look like? Obviously, she needed her body, since she was with alien child. If the Isabel's body is left behind, I suppose that leaves you with a corpse to bury and an explainable disappearance (since she appears to be dead). Denny's body was left behind because Khivar's soul did not live in that body. Isabel's (and perhaps Vilandra's) lives in her body. The soul probably needs it. They were given new bodies to go with their previous souls/essences. If the bodies weren't needed, the souls could have just floated around in the ether until a high-tech spiritual medium conjured them up at a later date. New transport. Feh. New contrivance is more like it. Something in the way he moves: good catch on Kevin/Denny/Khivar's hyperlocation. The experience of posession clearly gives the host body alien powers. (Affecting the drink, too.) Did Brody have any heightened powers while under the influence? I can't remember that far back. Denny also woke up and realized he was in California. Now THAT's a neat power. |
Posted 11-26-2001 05:47
PM by Juniper
quote: Awww...but that's the best part. When it happens to someone else. Jesse, for example. Which makes me wonder about an angle our brilliant Sci-Fi thread leader missed: 4. EVERYTHING YOU ALWAYS WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT (ALIEN) SEX, BUT WERE AFRAID TO ASK. Everyone besides Liz now seems to know just how great alien sex is. In the Snapple episode, Maria kept haranguing Mikey to wash his sheets, that little harlot. Any 'big bang' theories from you terrific minds? |
Posted 11-26-2001 07:01
PM by Vihmakass
quote: Hi, ...maybe this usefull for some theory or spec.?
[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Vihmakass ] |
Posted 11-26-2001 08:31
PM by Luna G
quote: Ahem. I sort of left it out on purpose--figured that the shipper threads would have it covered. But, if you want my original snarky title for that topic, it was: The Ever-Burgeoning I've Slept With an Alien Club Burgeoning. It's one of my favorite words. Evokes so much. AlexEvans, I like your "changed Brody" theory. I'll just file that under "changed Liz" and shout DO SOMETHING WITH IT! Seriously though, I suspect that Brody's vacationing with Milton. "Message boards are overloaded, please try again in a few minutes." I'll get this to post eventually, but I'm already up to 5 tries. Grr. [ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
| Posted 11-26-2001 09:49
PM by shapeshifter
In a post on some thread somewhere (in between "the boards are overloaded" messages) Reggie pointed out that the original Emmissary in MITC illustrated special powers when he did the brain scan/projection on Max. So, Kvar's possession of Denny is not terribly inconsistant. Good point that Liz is the only one who has not yet experienced HAS (that's a lousy acronym, but I trust y'all know what I mean ). If she and Max ever do make the beast with 2 backs, it will be the first known hybrid-with-changed-human interaction of that sort. Dare we speculate--given that this board is open to the public of all ages? [ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
Posted 11-26-2001 11:33
PM by Nemo
quote:Well, he asked the first person he saw "Where am I?" and Michael answered, "La Jolla." So Denny only had to know that La Jolla is in California. |
Posted 11-27-2001 01:35
AM by Luna G
quote: My opinion? Yes, with caution. I've been thinking about this. The problem is, if Katims isn't giving us a "G" rated show, it's a little hard to avoid discussions that stray into adult territory. And the theme for this year, as I recall it from the pre-season ad campaign, was about how they were all older, stronger and wiser (or something to that effect). Sex is a big rite of passage which Katims has chosen to explore as our alien & human friends come of age. Two potentially competing values come to mind, both equally valid:
The Sci Fi thread has an outstanding history of showing respect for other posters, not bashing, not posting spoilers, etc. I don't see any reason why we can't handle this topic with maturity and discretion. These are just my own thoughts, and I'd like to know how you all feel. [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
| Posted 11-27-2001 06:05
AM by plumeria
I think as long as it stays within that PG13 rating, I think a sci-fi based discussion of the alien sex is ok. Like Luna said, think about any kids you know that age, and think about the level of explicitness you would or wouldn't use around them. Alien-and-changed-human relations. Think it would have the same effect for Max/Kyle as for Max/Liz? |
| Posted 11-27-2001 09:02
AM by Luna G
No way. Max and Liz are soulmates. Whoops--there I go, betraying my secret shipper status. |
| Posted 11-27-2001 10:07
AM by AlexEvans
Well 'HAS' is part of the plotline, isn't it? Most of the info we have comes from Max's description of what happened between him and Tess. Apparently a sort of an electric-current like field that lasted an hour. Isabel must have known how to handle it... Jesse knew it was different but she somehow made sure he didn't think 'my wife must be an alien' or even 'those drugs Kevin gave me must be making me hallucinate.' So obviously Isabel and Alex possibly after the prom. Er ahem this isn't really SF is it? But I can dream... |
| Posted 11-27-2001 11:24
AM by Juniper
Thanks, Nemo, I must have missed that line about La Jolla. That's what happens when I play cards during the show. I don't follow the shipper threads or any threads where people identify themselves with acronyms, so I have no idea what's discussed there. I agree that if it's covered on the program, it can be covered on the boards. I certainly think a bunch of people with an interest in science and technology, such as those of us here, can discuss HAS without descending into gutterspeak. As we keep saying, alien powers are heightened human powers. If that goes for sensations too, then heightened sexual enjoyment seems reasonable. But how are the human partners reaping the benefits of this? Truth be told we only know thus far that Jesse said his experience was "different." This is not a particularly illuminating statement, but the teleplay writer apparently thought it was the mot juste. What are the humans experiencing that's so different? |
| Posted 11-27-2001 10:06
PM by shapeshifter
BTM has already aired here, I must get my beauty sleep, so here's my contribution on the Sci Fi of this ep: Michael cannot control his powers when he's jealous (this would be a subset of discussion of HAS). This is very different from Max's reaction to Liz with Kyle or Liz with Sean. As a die-hard Roswell apologist, I hypothesize that Max did not react in that way because Liz did not really "go" for Kyle, so her pherenomes or something must not have set off his alien alert system (but his human heart was crushed ). Then, with Sean, Max was more or less with Tess, so again the alien jello-sy was not triggered. |
| Posted 11-27-2001 10:44
PM by Lorrilei1960
Howdy shapeshifter, et al, As to your preliminary hypothesis re: jealousy causing the loss of control of powers... I think that it fits with their usual MOs... Michael had a hard time
learning to control his powers which we, I think, more or less agreed was
due to his lack of security/nurturing and general stablitlity in his
up-bringing. The lack of control of his powers stems from his state of
emotional turmoil. Add to that that Michael's power talent is blowing
things up and it makes perfect sense ... er... in the Roswell universe,
that is . Since I haven't been around the Sci-Fi thread for awhile, I wanted to
comment on the previous discussion concerning Kivar's little visit. CHADS or implausible Sci-Fi? You be the judge. |
| Posted 11-28-2001 12:13
AM by Luna G
The Science Fiction of Behind the Music Was there any? Okay. I’m trying to sift some discussion points out of that episode. Here. We’ll just go a little off-topic. How about this? 1. HIDING THE EVIDENCE. The last time Max & Michael buried something in the desert (Pierce’s body), that worked out so well, don’t you think? Remember Tess’ little hidey-hole in the library? That was at least interesting. Hey guys. You have super powers. Use them. And putting a bunch of Tess’ stuff in that hole? Phil Evans is looking for Tess. Max knows it because he’s seen the "What Is Max Hiding?" board. Say Mr. Evans (or someone else) finds a bunch of stuff in the hole that belonged to her, buried by his son. What conclusion do you think he’ll come to? Maybe that Tess is dead and Max killed her? 2. CONTROL ISSUES. When we first met Michael, he had a lot of trouble controlling his powers. Despite huge gains over the last two years, he suffered a major relapse in this episode. Although you’ve got to admit he’s always been the best one at blowing things up. Is it the heightened emotional state that is causing the cascading explosions? Or is it losing the connection with Maria? And will he regain control now that the break up is over? 3. THE PRICE. I was pleased to see Maria (and Liz) grappling with the huge price they’ve paid as a result of being part of Michael & Max’s lives. Maria says, "I’m trapped and I’m never going to get out." I like this. In some ways, I feel that this is the heart of the show—ordinary people trapped in extreme, impossible circumstances, keeping a secret but constantly on the verge of discovery. The line between friends and enemies, enemies and family is constantly blurred. Even when you win a victory, as Isabel says, it’s just "You’re safe for one more day." 4. ALIEN GRANDCHILDREN. Nice cover story, Isabel. You want Phil & Diane to drop the investigation, so you tell them they may have a grandchild! These are caring, responsible folks. If you think they’ll give up short of seeing Tess and the baby in person now, you’re crazy. Looking forward to a walk down memory lane next week with the Pilot. So, how many times have you all watched the very first episode of Roswell? I figure for me it’s got to be 20+. And what did you think of Behind the Music? **Hi shapeshifter and Lorrilei1960! |
| Posted 11-28-2001 07:30
AM by AlexEvans
Isabel basically told the truth. She acted so guilty there was no chance of her father believing her, but what she said was technically true... I wonder if that means anything? Certainly it is better for their parents to think Max got Tess pregnant than that he murdered Tess. On the other hand... is bringing up grandchildren a good idea? Considering that Isabel will probably never give them any? (Of course her parents don't want them for a long time... but if she doesn't tell them, in a decade they'll be wondering. And certainly Jesse will want to know what's going on.) I love renewing the emotional troubles/trouble controlling powers problem Michael has. Very interesting. What I don't get is why Isabel, who has gone through more than other other podling, doesn't exhibit the same problems? Of course if it is romantically linked, Alex never even looked at anyone else (well maybe Lonnie, but Isabel liked Lonnie's idea too). I don't think anything Grant or Jesse could do would upset her as much as the fear of losing Maria upset Michael. I'm trying to remember first season though... was it always something involving Maria that caused Michael to lose control? And he never had as good control as the others period, first season, anyway.
[ 11-28-2001: Message edited by: AlexEvans ] |
| Posted 11-28-2001 10:55
AM by Juniper
Superpowers that we assume would include disposing of the evidence...I believe the direction of the show is moving back toward character development in a pure sense and away from neat Sci-Fi tricks. Hence I see them using powers less and less. Is it smart, who knows. I'm waiting for the episode a la Bewitched where they try to not use their powers for one day, to great comic effect.
quote: Well said. I suspect Maria has less to do with the actual powers and more to do with the fluctuating emotions behind it all. The price is wrong...It seems Maria is working on two issues. One is giving up her music, which clearly, no one is stopping her from pursuing. Two is her frustration about belonging to the IKAAC ("I know an..."). The two are related in her mind, but are they really? (veering away from Sci-Fi; sorry.) Yeah, why would the Evanses not buy that totally plausible story? I'd go for it. AlexEvans, why would you say Isabel should have the same control issues or that she's been through more difficult times than anyone else? I thought the message was that their early childhood/home life was an enormous factor in their development. For Max & Isabel, the support of a family helped them become well-integrated. For Michael, an abusive stepfather created havoc with his self-esteem, and for Tess, being raised by Nasedo who showed no human emotion caused her to seek contact and to fully explore her powers. The fact that even while angry, Isabel has a handle on herself is more proof of this.
quote: Excellent point, by the way. |
| Posted 11-29-2001 04:41
PM by AlexEvans
Juniper, you're right. The difference in upbringing does explain it. My reasons were that Isabel has gone through much more than Michael, emotionally, and that she doesn't seem to have dealt with any of it, just suppressed it all. But it doesn't seem to be what's happening now (or in the past two years) that's the primary factor behind why Michael is having trouble with his powers. |
Posted 12-01-2001 04:19
PM by shapeshifter
quote:BTW, is the recovered jeep going bring up the ol' Cadmium X issue? Or would that have been laid to rest with CW and Piercedo? Also BTW: Any Bob Worshippers in the house? If so, how do y'all feel about this resurrection of the dead?
quote:I'm trying to recall the I Dream Of Genie scenarios as well.
quote:Also, Michael began to gain control over his powers during the summer that he practiced splitting rocks with Tess--this was when he and Maria were apart. |
| Posted 12-01-2001 09:25
PM by Vihmakass
one theory about Michael powers trouble. R4 has two sides : human and alien. Max human side is connected with Liz(love) Isabel was connected to Alex,Grant and even Jesse with her human side.Alien side is always connected with Khivar.She never losed contoll bc. her alienself is not involved. Michael was in S1 so alien and he fell love with Maria. In S2 we can
see how he learning about his humanside and Maria is great part of
this. |
| Posted 12-01-2001 10:25
PM by shapeshifter
Skipping back to the topic of HAS: In Secrets and Lies (see transcript here) and Control we learn that the 2nd shapeshifter killed the leading lady of "They Are Among Us," and that he also killed Joey because Joey knew the Kal was an alien. We also know the Nasedo wanted to kill everyone who knew about Cadmium X, and that Hank was killed after he discovered that Michael was "a freak." Soooo...I am guessing that the leading lady and the shapeshifter/clapper loader had HAS, and that is how she knew--because (as Jesse said to Is), it "was different." |
| Posted 12-02-2001 02:04
AM by Vihmakass
is this HotAlienSex just usual "differeñt" or may lead to dependence bc is so "different". Maybe this is why FMax not wanted PLiz and PMax have HAS. But then how about Michael and Maria? Or bc Maria (and Jesse too) not changed, she has only usual different HAS? But Liz who is changed have it so different? But then what about Kyle? btw. Kyle was in school somekind "ladyman" - now he doesn't have girlfriend since Destiny.....yes he has Tess before he revealed he loved her like brother... but this is long time after prom and he is .... mnjaa. This HAS thing is very interesting.... How Rath sayd in MITC? RATH: Alien sex, baby. Accept no imitations. [ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: Vihmakass ] |
| Posted 12-02-2001 01:44
PM by carsonb
I don't come to this thread often, maybe because we haven't had a lot of sci-fi in recent weeks, but I do enjoy reading everyones ideas. OK as for the pseudo sci-fi of Behind The Music. 1. Digging the hole. It makes no sense. Why put all the alien stuff in one place. Wouldn't it have been safer spread out like it was? Now if someone finds that hole, which is very possible sense they have pics of them digging it, everything will be found. If Pa Evans was inclined to try and search Michael,or Isabells homes for clues, which I doubt, if he found a healing stone wouldn't he think its just a rock? That's all it looks like. The necklace Max gave to Liz, if she's been wearing it for 6 months, why would anyone be suspicious of it now? Truthfully, wouldn't anyone just think it's an Indian design or something? Burying Tess' stuff was just stupid. Now if it's found it'll look like Max killed Tess. and Pa Evans knows that Tess lived with the Valenti's, it's not like he was going to go thru Jim's house to get clues. 2. Michael's powers. I think it's very plausible that upbring has a lot to do with developing powers and maybe also just personalities. Michael has always been volitile and it makes sense that when something upsets him emotionally that it would affect his powers. Max has always been more in control of his emotions, so more in control of his powers, he may at times loose some control, but he has never really been the type of person to loose total control. Isabelle's powers are more understated than the guys. Her powers seem to be more of the mind than force. She has shown signs of losing control, if you think about the dreams she was having about Laurie. She couldn't control getting vision in that situation or the one where Tess was kidnapped. The Alex dream sequences can also be looked at as a way she has lost control of her powers or the powers maybe have taken control of her. But because her powers are based so much on mind they don't seem as out of control as Michael's when he blows things up, even though they propably are. 3. Telling the parents about the baby. I don't understand how they thought this was a good idea. Don't Max and Isabelle think that Pa Evans is going to be even more determined to find Tess now. They are going to want to find their grandchild. It also puts Jim in a bad position. Pa Evans has already gone to Jim for info on Tess. He lied and said that they might have an address or something on where Tess is, relatives on the East Coast. Wouldn't Pa Evans go back to Jim at this point to get info. and isn't he going to find it really odd if Jim can't give him this info. Jim was the sheriff for god's sake, I don't think that Pa Evans will believe that he let the underage girl, whom lived under his roof for almost year, leave and not get any kind of info on where she is going to be. So he's going to have to assume that Jim was lying in the first place. This explanation is just causing them more problems in the end and I really don't know what they were thinking. OK, that's my rant for now. I can't wait to see how this gets played out. I almost forgot on the Kivar discussion. I think that he used the worm hole so that Isabelle could go thru, he shouldn't have needed it himself. Denny's body should have stayed just like it did, they only question I have on this, is how would the wormhole know to take Isabelle's body and not just her mind? It's not like she has another body waiting for her on the other side like Kivar did. But they are supposed to be an advanced alien race, so maybe they have the technology to pull this off, at least I hope so. Carson |
Posted 12-02-2001 04:04
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Interesting possibility. Maybe this is why Michael's powers were "out of whack."
quote:Agreed--they should have dug multiple holes, at least. But I am really wondering about Phil's PI: he told Phil he couldn't see what they were doing. Maybe he thinks Max would be able to pay him big money (from Kal?) to keep quiet. This could get messy. About the necklace--remember in SH when they stayed in the desert in case the Orbs went off again (well, supposedly that's why ), and then they had to change Piercedo's bones because of Cad. X. So, I just think Max was being careful and/or psycho. About it looking like Max killed Tess: I hope they solve this one with either with a visit from Ava or Isabel learning to shapeshift. [ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 12-02-2001 07:34
PM by Luna G
About Isabel (or the others) shapeshifting: Would they ever be able to truly shapeshift? I know that Lonnie and Rath did in a limited sense, but it was very limited--different clothes, rearrange the hair, and remove some piercings. If they did succeed in shapeshifting, would they suffer Cal Langley-esque consequences? Something I've been thinking about Mr. Evans' board. You know at the top where it says, "What Is Max Hiding?" Wouldn't it be great if at some point he finds out enough to remove the last word, so it says, "What Is Max?" |
Posted 12-02-2001 08:02
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Oooo, Luna! You are sharp tonight! Maybe Rath & Lonnie's dabbling in shapeshifting was what made them more alien! And I love your idea about Mr. Evans removing the one word. Picture him doing it deliberately, with the Scotch on the rocks in his hand. BTW, the fact that he did have a drink when he nailed Isabel to the wall--I thought this was supposed to signify how upset he was--that he needed a little self-medication. But maybe it was indicative of fuzzy thinking on his part? And remember last season when Mr. Evans was carrying on about how he had to have his spicy mustard and we were thinking he might be alien? [ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 12-03-2001 08:28
PM by AlexEvans
Very interesting speculation on the shapeshifting. Of course we have only Tess and Nasedo's word that they can't shapeshift. I'd like to see Ava reappear. (Rather see Lonnie again but it would be nice to see Ava.) I don't really see it happening however. I'd been wondering all season how they'd explained Tess' disappearance. I've been waiting for Hanson to arrest Isabel, accuse her of murdering Grant, Alex and Tess. I mean the writers have never passed up a chance to make Isabel unhappy, through event after event never to be dealt with or even mentioned again. |
| Posted 12-04-2001 12:48
PM by Luna G
The Science Fiction of The Pilot Now that was a great hour of television. I’m putting this up early, since I can. I’ll be glad for an opportunity to record the pilot again tonight. My tape has gotten seriously buggy. Here are some sci fi related points from the granddaddy of all Roswells. HEALING LIZ PARKER. "I’m Liz Parker, and five days ago I died." Did she? How far gone was Liz Parker before Max healed her? Why did Max need her to look at him? What happened to the bullet? How does one go about manipulating the molecular structure of things? Is it different with a person than it is with an ugly clay statue? ALIEN CELLS. Hmm. We've been given a few biology lessons over the years, and now we know that the podsters are hybrids, and are mostly human. From a strictly scientific perspective, can you have cells like that and look like Max Evans? SILVER HANDPRINT. Why does it form? Is the skin actually changed? Or is it some kind of energy residue? Why does it fade away again? Does it only show up when healing is performed? Or when Nasedo kills people like the guy in 1959? What about the red handprint Nasedo left on Max’s chest when he died—is that related? ALIEN QUIRKS. Tobasco sauce. Listening to CDs without a player. One of
my all-time favorite fragments of dialogue: FLASHES. Before there were kisses, there were flashes. Moments of connection so intense that emotions are shared across the link. It’s easy due to the medium of television to get caught up in the images they show us. But the real power of the flashes comes from what they reveal—the true emotions and attitudes of the other person. An intimate glimpse into another being that breaks the normal isolation of a human soul. What is necessary for flashes to occur? How exactly do they work? "But then the most amazing thing happened. I came to life." Thanks to UPN for reairing this episode. So, what did you all think? |
Posted 12-05-2001 07:34
AM by shapeshifter
quote: Great Sci Fi analysis, Luna! I can tell your heart was in it!
quote:I assumed it was just blood--presumably from his nose--ew!
quote:I'm glad you brought this up. I think both the audience and Maria later got the mistaken idea that flashes were a biological byproduct of kissing (sort of like the the hour long electrical charge during HAS). But it really has more to do with the 'connection' (for lack of a better word) between the individuals--as Maria and Michael seem to discover.
|
| Posted 12-05-2001 01:56
PM by Luna G
Hi shapeshifter. Yes, I the pilot. I admit it. I'm a crazed, resistant to change, internet fan. Regarding using the granolith: I'm afraid that ship has sailed. |
| Posted 12-05-2001 09:41
PM by shapeshifter
Luna, but couldn't Max, in his quest for SPOT, find the granolith/ship on Antar, attempt to return home in it (having failed to retrieve SPOT), and wind up in 1999? In WR's 2nd fanfic, The Consequences of Truth (chapters 17-25) Max plans to hijack the Space Shuttle to go to Antar. |
Posted 12-05-2001 11:06
PM by Luna G
quote: So then there could be three Max's. Enough to satisfy every shipper
group. Could happen, probably won't happen. Just my opinion. Who needs the
granolith when they've got teleporters? |
| Posted 12-06-2001 02:33
AM by Calenhíril
Great thoughts, guys! I am up waaay too late, so I can't really comment on anything, but you do know how to make a brain work. I can't wait to see what you come up with for EOTW. luv, Etoiline |
| Posted 12-06-2001 05:21
AM by plumeria
Why do you suppose it was necessary for Liz to look at Max when he healed her? Healing was a matter of the molecular manipulation, as he states. He didn't need the statue figure to "look at him" when he demonstrated his powers for Liz. |
Posted 12-06-2001 09:26
AM by shapeshifter
quote:Good points! Hmmm...Maybe Max would still hijack the Granolith/powersource which would effectively deflate the wormhole maker while leaving Kvar muttering "Curses! Foiled again!" and preparing to fight another day like Batman & Superman nemeses. If this were to be the last season it could end with Max arriving somewhere in time that would be critical. Plu, in the books (which Pilot followed pretty much), they had to "connect" to heal. So, first connect, then manip? [ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 12-08-2001 10:29
PM by shapeshifter
The original Science Fiction of The End Of The World thread (lead by LSS) is here, thanks to Vihmakass. But I am also looking forward to Luna's take on it in the light of our new insights like the EMHB, and Kvar's Worm Hole, and the Second Shapeshifter, and especially Alex's Death. |
| Posted 12-11-2001 04:36
PM by Luna G
The Science Fiction of The End Of The World 2014—minutes before the fall. When these words appeared on the screen, it all came flooding back to me. How strongly I reacted to this episode. How painful it was to watch. There’s been a lot of water under the bridge since then. What we’re left with is questions. How does The End of the World look post-Departure? 1. THE GRANOLITH/TIME MACHINE: Liz argues with Future Max that time travel is impossible. But is it? What are the rules of physics that are broken by this artificial tear in space-time? 2. A COMPLETE UNIT: Does this "complete unit" business mean that Max will never dreamwalk? That Michael will never have a jello shield? Are the specialized powers of each podster written into their DNA or are they acquired through experience, an outgrowth of their personalities? Nature vs. nurture and all that. Did some scientist in a lab sit down and say, "Okay, let’s make Vilandra 2 be the dreamwalker, and let’s make Rath 2 be good at cracking rocks"? And how exactly could Max know that Tess (who left Roswell a very long time ago from his point of view) would have tipped the balance to turn defeat into victory? 3. POLLUTING THE TIMELINE. Future Max tells Liz that he can’t tell her too much about the future. Is that even an issue when you’ve come back in time to make sure your side wins? Wouldn’t he want to give her some pointers, like letting her know that she’s been *changed*, that Lonnie and Rath are evil, that Grant is possessed by the queen of the jellyfish? Of course, this is all assuming a single timeline theory of the universe. Something that may make no sense at all in light of a species who can exist in multiple subset dimensions. 4. CEMENTING. If you were going to change history, cementing seems like a strange event to choose. Not surgical. Not precise. Relationships are messy and fluid. The only thing I can think is that there is more to cementing than an emotional bond. Any takers? 5. TESS HARDING. One of the great enigmas of Roswell as it currently stands is when and why Tess turned bad. And if you think it’s off topic for sci-fi, consider this. Future Max knew what happened with Tess in the future. But he doesn’t say anything more than that she left Roswell. How much did Future Max know about Tess? Was he deliberately holding back information from Liz? Did he know about Nasedo’s deal? Did Tess ever betray Max in the original timeline? Future Max blamed himself for what happened with Tess. We know better. Including Tess in the group, even having physical intimacy with her did not keep her from becoming an enemy. If what Future Max said about Tess being "vital to our survival" is true, then are Max, Michael, Isabel, and oh yes, the entire population of Earth doomed? 6. CHEATING FATE. Not to anthropomorphize (much), but you’d almost think the universe was offended that Future Max changed history. So much pain and so little good has come out of it in the end. Alex dead. Tess going over to the dark side. The baby. The loss of the Granolith. If Future Max knew then what we know now… What did you all think? Then he went down the chimney...a rather tight pinch, [ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
| Posted 12-11-2001 09:34
PM by shapeshifter
Luna, Awesome prose! (Quickly shapeshifter hits the Print Topic option and saves the thread in case this is TEOTW.) Where is everybody? quote: Was Serena really a friend? Did she have her own agenda? Did she convince Liz (think the serpent in a Garden of Eden that's no longer paradise) who convinced Max that this was necessary for the reasons we hear in TEOTW, when in reality the agenda was to produce the heir? (think of the opening line: "before the fall")
quote:Then, in a moment of closeness, he tells her about their wedding. Later, in VLV, PM has a flash of the wedding. I like to believe that this moment of revelation in TEOTW was what saved M&L as a unit from Serena's agenda. |
| Posted 12-12-2001 11:28
AM by AlexEvans
I agree with Luna (didn't I post something along those lines after "Interruptus"?) The Granolith is definitely the explanation behind Kivar's expanded ability to reach Earth. Forget Max though! Him and his son he's never even met. Isabel is the one who really needs the Granolith. Okay - Kivar comes after her again, this time Isabel does go with him. (Jesse sees this but can't stop them. Maybe Isabel locks him in the bathroom again or something.) Isabel gets to Antar, immediately stops pretending to be 'Vilandra' and steals the Granolith, returning to Earth (I couldn't care less whether she has Max's son with her or not). Now we don't want to rewind, confuse everyone. So Isabel doesn't travel to the past. Instead, she snatches Alex out of his car right before the collision, bringing him to the present, leaving behind a fake body (also a product of the Granolith?). Jesse breaks out of the bathroom just in time to witness Alex and Isabel's teary reunion. Wdyt? Semi-plausible? More interesting than the search for Spot? If Colin is unwilling to come back as a regular, they could have Alex leave Roswell with a fake identity(unable to explain how he came back to life if he stays), but at least Alex would be alive, and Gazers could have hope again. If we want to redeem Tess, she could help Isabel steal the Granolith, give him Spot to take to Max, better yet come home to Earth with Isabel... I'd forgive her if she did all that. (Yes, this is a fic outline... but the fic itself is progressing painfully slowly. And the SF speculation is the most interesting part, at least to non-Gazers.) |
Posted 12-12-2001 02:53
PM by Luna G
quote: How very metaphysical of you. Serena/serpent. Hmm...
quote: Whoops. You did post something like that. Credit where credit is due. Call me an enthusiastic supporter of your wormhole/granolith theory. As far as Isabel going after the granolith to save Alex, I'm afraid we still haven't met Serena (the potential serpent), who is the one who came up with the time travel modification in the first place. Not to mention that as far as we know nobody but Liz and Maria know that time travel is possible. [ 12-12-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
| Posted 12-12-2001 04:24
PM by plumeria
Considering how many books/authors and movies have mentioned time travel (Back to the Future, Ray Bradbury (I think), Harry Potter, etc), I don't see why it couldn't be possible -- but it would indeed have potentially messy implications if you changed the future. I think this is more of a CHAD than Sci-fi, but about Tess's role in all of this -- she's necessary for the foursome, but since she apparently came to Earth with a hidden agenda, it doesn't seem like it would have mattered if she'd been there to complete the group -- who's side would she have been on, anyway? But as for the implications of complementary skills -- there does seem to be *some* crossover of abilities -- Michael has done some small healing, they've all done the molecular manipulation, and are flashes related to dreamwalking/mindwarping? They all involve seeing into someone's psyche. And yet they do all seem to have standout skills. Max: healing/shielding, Michael: blasting, Isabel: Dreamwalking and shifting to her former persona , Tess: mindwarping and calling for help over long distances. The question is, what skills did they lack when Tess wasn't there in FMax's timeline? What would Tess have provided? As for "cementing" -- yes, relationships change, but some just reach a point where they never turn back. And that seems to have been that Gomez night for M/L. So I can see how that could be the catalyst for gluing M/L together. This has absolutely *nothing* to do with sci-fi, but did anyone else listen to the psychic with an eye for how things *did* turn out, rather than the original timeline? Like ... Max does choose Liz (after Departure), etc etc.... *sniffle* -- it was hard to listen to Alex's future, though.... Ok, I'm pretty much OT and babbling at this point. Will shut up and listen to the rest of you. |
Posted 12-12-2001 11:40
PM by shapeshifter
quote:not to mention H. G. Wells' The Time Machine. Ironically, he also wrote The War Of The Worlds.
quote:As pointed out on another thread, TEOTW is followed by Harvest in which Tess does help prevent the harvest of the Skins, which would have definitely given this enemy an edge in the next 14 years. And plu, good point on Madame V's predictions. BTW, the scenes with her were well played, I thought. Interesting to think that if Liz hadn't warned Max not to trade away the Granolith in MITC that a FM couldn't have returned. I know, he was already not the same, but it still seems worth pondering. |
Posted 12-13-2001 11:16
AM by Luna G
quote: Ah, but would Max have even gone to New York if Liz hadn't "slept with Kyle"? He certainly wouldn't have gone to NY with Tess. plumeria What I meant about only Liz and Maria knowing about time travel is that in the Roswellverse, Max, Michael and Isabel were never told about Future Max and still don't know that the granolith can be used as a time machine. This is a hanging CHAD that just bugs the heck out of me. |
| Posted 12-18-2001 09:33
PM by shapeshifter
Okay. Samuel Rising finished 1.25 hrs ago here in the Midwest, and as I now type Luna is no doubt taking notes in California. I had some issues about an autistic child being 'just different' rather
than in need of healing. I seem to recall hearing on NPR about a year ago
that research has shown that autism is caused by brain abnormalities.
How come Max exerts so much effort to heal or attempt to heal, while Isabel never breaks a sweat with her dream manipulations? |
| Posted 12-18-2001 10:01
PM by Minanda
Hmm...shapeshifter, interesting points/questions. First, there are many theories about the cause of autism. Autism is one disability area that has been getting a lot of press and research lately. No one really knows what causes autism. Some theories include diet, vaccines while pregnant, genetic, and more. The hard thing about autism is that it different for every person. Of course, there are some similar characteristics but those are not given. As for the person you know that is "mentally retarded," what exactly do you mean? The term we use, at least in schools in Wisconsin, is cognitively disabled. Someone who has a cognitive disability has a low IQ and poor adaptive or life skills. Most people with cognitive disabilities can learn. It is just more difficult for them to learn or to remember what they have learned. Why couldn't Max heal Samuel? I don't have a good answer for that. I emphasize with my students (they are in 7th grade) that just because they have disabilities doesn't mean that they are less than other people. They are just different. I personally think that the world would be a boring place if we did not have people with disabilities. Besides, they remind us of our humanity, how fragile we are. Maybe that is why the writers did not want Max to heal him. Maybe they just wanted Samuel to remind him of his human side. |
| Posted 12-18-2001 10:09
PM by plumeria
My husband asked the same "why couldn't he heal Samuel" question. From my perspective (and it's sort of the same thing you were saying, Minanda ) is that autism isn't a concrete thing you can pinpoint, like cancer or a bullet. It's pervasive, and elusive. And it's not generally considered something that *can* be cured -- it just is. Could Max have healed someone with spina bifida, or cerebral palsy? Autism is an emotional inability to connect to the world, and a different means of seeing patterns and things. What would you heal? |
| Posted 12-18-2001 10:12
PM by Minanda
Exactly. It is not a disease. It is what it is. |
| Posted 12-18-2001 11:48
PM by Luna G
The Science Fiction of Samuel Rising The Holiday Episode. Let’s all pause for a few minutes of angst-free Roswell. I particularly liked the lines from "I’ll be home for Christmas" playing at the end. …from now on our troubles will be out of sight…Through the years we all will be together, if the fates allow…Ah, if only we could believe it. Read destiny in place of fate and you’ve pretty much got it in a nutshell. Samuel Rising was a sweet family episode. Big blue eyes on the kid, romantic moments all around. But this is a sci fi thread, so let’s see what we have. SAMUEL. A child with a condition. Must be Christmas. (Remember Sydney from last year’s Christmas episode?) The first question has to be whether this was an accurate portrayal of autism. I don’t really know much on this subject. I’d love to hear from any experts. What about when Liz suggested that Samuel didn’t need to be healed, that he was just different. Is that true? Why wouldn’t Max be able to heal Samuel? IN YOUR DREAMS. Not only do we have possession plus (ala Kivar/Denny), now we have dreamwalking plus. Isabel discovers a brand new talent for shared dreaming. Now anytime the pod squad needs to have a late night conference, they can just use Isabel’s alien conference call powers. Now if she would only dreamwalk Tess so we could get to the bottom of this alien baby business. ARTS AND CRAFTS. Speaking of Isabel’s powers, didn’t you find it a little careless of her to "make" the stockings right in front of Jesse? Counting down the minutes until Jesse finds out "the truth." MAGICAL HOLIDAY SNOW. Can I get one of those? Whenever there’s interesting weather in Roswell, I can’t help thinking about that old adage about the butterfly flapping its wings in China. Well, that’s all I can think of. Happy holidays everyone. edited to say: I see you all beat me to the autism question. shapeshifter, I kind of figure that the reason Isabel doesn't sweat, besides the fact that actresses don't like to look sweaty, is that healing is harder and more personal than dreamwalking. It seems to actually take something out of Max. [ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
Posted 12-19-2001 04:13
AM by yettaren
quote: Hi guys - I hopped over here from the episode thread. I just wanted to reply to this really quickly - I don't know that I'd describe autism so much as an "emotional inability to connect to the world" (though the second part is pretty dead-on). They do connect to the world, at least I think they do, they just do it in abnormal ways. Yes, they are starting to pinpoint the part of the brain that causes autism (not like they can do anything about it right now), but there may be many other factors to it (genetic, amino acids, etc.) To rationalize Max's inability to cure him, maybe he couldn't fix all the things that were wrong? Or he couldn't see where the problem was because he doesn't know much about neurology? Or the part of the brain that makes us what we are is resistant to alien king interference, and something wouldn't let him change who Samuel was? (Wow, discussing Roswell and autism. My interests collide. I can talk about autism for hours, I've bored many a friend that way. ) |
| Posted 12-19-2001 09:52
AM by taliabjm566
i think Khivar thought after he murdered the royal four he would have total control of Antar. All he has now is a world war,with a link to the last royal house he can show the people that he is the rightful king. Tess has her son but is unwilling to use him as a pawn with the usurping king.Maybe khivar is trying to seduce Iz into giving him a child that he can designate as his heir. Another thought- Ithought the four aliens were supposed to be a set. What if their powers can interconnect and grow off each other? Like Tess in Skin and bones and the whole falme throwing thing maybe she was drawing energy off the other three and it made her stronger.. Great thread |
Posted 12-19-2001 01:42
PM by Luna G
quote: Interesting idea. Since the other three didn't notice, you're suggesting that the four hybrids have an unconscious connection to each other? yettaren, thanks for the info on autism. [ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
| Posted 12-19-2001 01:53
PM by taliabjm566
But on the other hand you could say that a mental link between the hybrids could exist because they are a set. But what about the relationships between M/M M/L and the flashes, one could suppose the same idea based on strong emotion? |
| Posted 12-19-2001 08:39
PM by AlexEvans
Angst free? Sorry Luna... it is extremely depressing to watch any Roswell ep. Every time I see Jesse I'm reminded of how much we've lost. Much as I love the Christmas Nazi, she was way better in ARCC. M&M aren't together... although they were funny. And of course, yet another major off-screen development; Jim and Amy are no longer together (or even moving that way). I did find the dreamwalking very interesting. It's amazing the number of things they've just 'never tried.' That was a rather impressive expansion of her powers. |
Posted 12-19-2001 11:03
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Though he could not read or even name the alphabet, he was very gifted in other ways. For example, he always knew exactly what time it was without a clock or a watch. More importantly, he was very tuned in to God. Personally, I always felt extra safe around him. I guess that the writers who worked on this episode would have had some degree of experience with an autistic child, and at least one writer would have had a positive interaction with such a child that was worth sharing with the Roswell audience. There were a lot of parallels in Samuel's relationship with the world, the Alien Hybrids' relationships with the world, and Max's relationship with his lost son--also a bit of Future Max's relationship with Past Liz. Maybe Samuel really did receive a message for Max from his son that Max was not able to receive because his son is now too far away. If so, and if the message to Max was "I love you, Daddy," then did Max get the message? Isabel doesn't exactly tell him on screen. |
| Posted 12-29-2001 10:48
PM by shapeshifter
Goodness! 10 days after can't be a double post now, can it? I need to get my 20 winks now , but before I do, here's some more tabasco (food) for thought: quote:Can anyone verify the validity of this? If so, maybe humans & aliens can produce offspring (still thinking of Cal's assumption that Max had "mated with another alien hybrid"). Of course, maybe if they cut it, the opposite is true. |
| Posted 12-30-2001 05:20
PM by AlexEvans
I'd love to know. One of the (many, many) things that bothers me about the marriage thing is that Jesse isn't aware that he and Isabel may not be able to have kids. Or maybe it was Kyle's kid, and that's the reason it was dying? Because hybrids and humans can't have kids? It made no sense at all that Max and Tess shouldn't have been able to have a kid who'd do just fine here on Earth, it appeared that had been all planned for! (The same things apply if it was Alex's kid instead of Kyle's, which is possible since he was in her power for so long.) Tess just had to sleep with Max at least once, to make him think the kid was his. Also, if the kid is Kyle's, is the fast pregnancy necessarily real? Maybe Tess Mindwarped everyone not to notice she was pregnant until she was ready for them to know. |
| Posted 12-30-2001 11:04
PM by Nemo
"The episode when Isabel goes to Kyle for advice about Jesse"? When was this? It was Michael who warned Isabel "...he's gonna have major questions after the honeymoon." (In Control.) Was there some other time when Kyle made the same point? [ 12-31-2001: Message edited by: Nemo ] |
| Posted 12-31-2001 03:54
PM by Luna G
Not that I could find in the transcripts. I think more than one line of that scene must have been deleted.
quote: I totally agree. What Isabel has done with Jesse is so far outside of my idea of marriage that I don't even consider it one. Deciding to get married isn't about the present. It's about the future. A future you plan to share with one another. How can you do that when there's no truth in the relationship? A new Roswell tomorrow night. Happy New Year everyone. |
Posted 12-31-2001 04:07
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Nemo, you're right. In THATH Isabel does seek Kyle's advice. But it's Michael in Control who says, "Well, knowing what i know about alien sex, he's gonna have major questions after the honeymoon." And he doesn't say it when Isabel seeks his advice, but after Maria tells him about the wedding, and he enters Isabels room without being invited. So then, I guess in the "uncut" THATH Kyle also says something about HAS. I guess TPTB decided not have the Exposition Fairy (who, in this case, would have been played by Kyle) go there in revealing TTHOC (Things that happened off camera)--hence the cut version that we saw. ****************************** Re: quote:and... quote:Interesting to speculate how close it came to not happening with Max's behviour at the Bachelor party and then on the wedding day: quote:All things considered, I don't see their wedding as being very outside the norm--especially considering that 50% of marriages end in divorce (and if that's the norm, no wonder). [ 12-31-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 12-31-2001 06:12
PM by Luna G
Exposition fairy Can I get one of those to go? |
| Posted 01-01-2002 08:59
PM by shapeshifter
Luna, I got the "exposition fairy" from one of the "critics," believe it or not. So, Michael reacts differently than Max to alcohol, or is it the quantity consumed? |
| Posted 01-01-2002 11:46
PM by Luna G
The Science Fiction of A Tale of Two Parties I was prepared to hate this episode. The teaser, with its hints about couple-switching was looking more like "Alien Creek" than "My So Called Alien." So it floored me at the end, when the whole cast -- minus Jim Valenti -- were sitting happily together in the Crashdown, as friends. When’s the last time we saw that? I can only hope that this is the beginning of a lighter period for our poor befuddled aliens. And I also hope for just a tiny bit more real science fiction to discuss. So, here we go. 1. HYBRID INTOXICATION. In Blind Date, Max had just a sip of alcohol
and it made him drunk for the evening. Michael was tossing back multiple
drinks of various types, so it made him very, very ill. A couple things to
think about: 2. KING OF THE KEGGER. Hey Max, they’re out of beer. Can you fix it? No episode of Roswell is complete without one gratuitous use of alien powers in front of random strangers. Are they even trying to keep the secret anymore? Sheesh. Did anyone else get a creepy vibe from that blond girl Max was talking to? What do you all think? |
| Posted 01-02-2002 07:04
AM by plumeria
Yeah, I was wondering about that electrical skin thing, too. It's like he literally short-circuited. Except it was more that his nerve impulses went into overtime. How come alcohol affected Michael so differently from Max? And did anyone else think, when they first saw Michael in midair, that that had to do with the alcohol? I didn't notice Max holding him in suspension at first -- I thought being drunk made Michael float! |
| Posted 01-02-2002 12:27
PM by AlexEvans
Okay... what to say... I agree with Luna, Shapeshifter and Plumeria. Marriage requires truth - so it does. And without it, I'm sure divorce will follow. (Soon please soon!) Like Plumeria, I thought Michael was levitating because of the alcohol - because his own powers were out of whack. Max's completely gratuitous use of his powers... gah. I was glad that they mentioned Isabel is at college. I wish she was still in high school... glad there's some minor bit of continuity not squeezed out. My own guess as to Michael's different reaction is simply he drank more than Max did. We really don't have enough info. Guess we need Isabel to get drunk to find out. She can do some cool things with her powers... trying to be nice to her hubby... who will run screaming. Ahem. I seem to be going slightly off topic... but, for a SF show, Roswell isn't giving us a whole lot of SF to discuss. |
| Posted 01-02-2002 10:04
PM by shapeshifter
Let's not forget Isabel coloring and uncoloring the car. I thought Max refilling the keg was a take-off on Jesus turning water into wine. And yes, I also thought at first that Michael was levitating because of the overdose. I then assumed Max was doing it to releave Michael of the pain of touching anything, but then it appeared he was also healing him. |
Posted 01-02-2002 10:16
PM by GilrozGirl
quote: I thought that too. I guess I was thinking of in 'Blind Date', when Kyle finds Max (where was it?). ~Gilroz Girl |
| Posted 01-03-2002 10:28
AM by Luna G
Sitting on a roof, right? Good catch, Gilroz Girl. Plu, I also thought Michael was floating on his own at first. Max could have been trying to bring Michael "down from his high." Although to be honest, my observation might be colored by my romantic attachment to the idea of flying aliens -- Superman, E.T., Max Evans... Addicted Bookworm, didn't we see Isabel drinking in the bar during Interruptus? Maybe it's only the male aliens that can't hold their liquor... Nervous system...electricity...I'm still thinking about this one. Cal Langley killed by electricity (like a lightning bolt, but didn't singe the upholstery of the car). There's something here, but I can't quite put it together yet. [ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
Posted 01-03-2002 03:06
PM by AlexEvans
quote: You're right. I just assumed it was a non-alcoholic drink... maybe I'm over compensating for Roswell's lack of continuity by pretending things make sense that don't? Or you could be right, could be a gender based difference. |
| Posted 01-03-2002 04:13
PM by shapeshifter
Luna, As a LOYAL fan, I was momentarily heartsick when Isabel had Jessie order one of those "fruity, pineappley drinks with the umbrella," because it would be inconsistent with Blind Date. But I inwardly rejoiced when she didn't drink it. I am assuming that all the other drinking at the wedding would have been NA by the aliens. Watching TOTP I only saw Michael have one shot of hard liquor followed by most of a beer before Max interrupted him. So I don't think the effects were inconsistant with Max's reaction to one sip of hard liquor in BD. And I Love your idea of Max trying to land floating Michael. [ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 01-03-2002 10:28
PM by Lorrilei1960
Hey gang... I agree with whoever said that Max was floating Michael to relieve him of some of the pain that his over stimulated touch sense were causing, while trying to perhaps "detox" him a bit. It does make me wonder, though, why didn't he fully heal him... do a full detox. It doesn't seem that a guy who can heal a bullet wound and cancer would find this a huge challenge... unless it's because the alcohol had spread through his entire system and was harder to get a handle on. In Blind Date, Max was drunk until he kissed Liz... and I don't think it was ever settled as to whether it was the kissing that caused him to snap out of it, or if the effects just happened to wear off at that particular instant (CHAD anyone?). I'm also thinking that maybe the electrical effect was because the alcohol was interfering with the usual firing of the synapsis in the brain which are little electrical charges, I believe (is there a Dr. in the house?) ... they kind of went haywire and were firing all over the place, especially places they shouldn't. I think Michael's reaction could have been a quantity thing. Max had one sip, while Michael had a shot then chugged a beer. OR.... (doodoodly doodly doo doo doo)... could it be that Michael is of a different species (hehehehe... yes, I'm bringing back that old theory) |
| Posted 01-04-2002 11:51
AM by AlexEvans
I also notice that Michael displayed no signs of amnesia, despite consuming much more alcohol than Max did. I always did think Max was faking in "Blind Date." Of course if the 'different species' theory is true, then we have no additional evidence for the effects of alcohol on Aliens. |
Posted 01-04-2002 12:35
PM by GilrozGirl
quote: Maybe Michael needed to be kissed . Yeah, that is sort of weird how kissing Liz sobered up Max. Could it have jolted him back to reality or something? If that makes any sense... ~Gilroz Girl |
| Posted 01-06-2002 01:22
PM by Luna G
In The Balance, when Michael is dying, River Dog shows them how to use the healing stones to restore "the balance", but I don't think the stones were the sole cause of his recovery. The individual moments of connection between him and the others seem to be an important part of the healing process. It could be argued that the stones only facilitated the personal essence-to-essence interaction that restored Michael's balance. Maybe in Blind Date, Max was likewise out of balance due to the alcohol. When Liz kissed him, and made a personal connection, his balance was restored. Right. So this is the long way to say, yes, I think Michael needed to be kissed. |
Posted 01-08-2002 04:27
PM by Juniper
quote:
quote: Amen to all of the above. More on Max=Jesus. Though I actually thought it was funny. If these holiday themed episodes are over, I'd like to get back to the Merry Mason plotline someday. I was actually interested in that. Since as Bookworm said, there's not a lot of SF going on in this show these days, I'll gladly take intrigue and drama. I make fun, but I don't actually think Jesse is that bad. Isabel has been craving something for her human side forever. Yes, it's a terrible thing she can't tell him her secret, but as Max and Michael said, it's also about protecting Jesse from something that may hurt him. The honeymoon episode was a great example of why Jesse can't be involved. Yes, truth, trust, foundation of marriage, blah blah, the bwessed awangement...but we're talking about something bigger than your garden-variety secret. Isabel is changing in positive ways, if the Christmas episode was any indication. Juniper |
| Posted 01-09-2002 12:02
AM by Luna G
The Science Fiction of the Hughleys? I hate pre-emptions. On the other hand, there might be more sci-fi in the Hughleys than in Roswell... Juniper, you bring up a good point about Isabel needing
something for her human side. Sometimes I think I don't cut her enough
slack. Her alien status is the single barrier to everything she wants in
life. She's just doing her best in a bad situation. But when you say that
she's changing, it gets me thinking. An example of this is the movie A.I. (which disturbed me on multiple levels, but I still think it's a great film). Haley Joel Osmet's character, David, looks like a child so much that you forget that he is not human. He is a being with a different consciousness, to whom different things are important, who will make choices that will seem irrational to human beings. That unpredictability makes him dangerous. We reflect our own xenophobia onto the alien lifeform, and fear that it will destroy us, because that is what we would do if our positions were reversed. But even the most pacifistic of alien entities, benevolent, wise, good, you name it, would have different values. Different things would be important to them. They would have different existential needs. So, can I judge a fictional alien for hiding the truth from her human husband before I've walked the proverbial mile in her shoes? What's important to Isabel? Safety, the illusion of normalcy, protecting her brothers, to name a few. Take all the normal fears in your life, and multiply that times a thousand. There's been a lot of talk over the last few years about how they need to embrace their human side. Even Cal Langley agrees. But I wonder how far they can really walk down that road. Vilandra is in Isabel, Zan is in Max, Rath is in Michael. Not just in a few strings of DNA. They share memories. Maybe sketchy, maybe spotty, but memories. They can never walk away from their alien side, because it is inside them. And strangely, I find myself worrying for Jesse -- for Liz, Kyle and Maria. I worry about them because aliens are unpredictable. Because they have different existential needs. I remember what River Dog said to Liz, over two years ago in the Roswell universe, "Be sure he deserves your trust." So, am I just having a melancholy Tuesday because there's no Roswell? Maybe so. This question keeps rumbling around in my head. "What makes us human?" |
Posted 01-09-2002 11:17
AM by Juniper
quote: Luna, I think you've partly answered your own question. If you see the R3 (4, whatever) as human, whatever it is that is intrinsic to those characters qualifies as being human. The need to form bonds with others? The ability to function in an organized society? To play conventional roles? To meet emotional and mental goals, not just physical ones? I would worry for Jesse and the IKAAC too. They are unwittingly involved in a dangerous situation. True, the risks for them are not as great, but as Kyle mentions in 'two parties,' since joining the club his life has been dramatically different. Greener grass: I think in addition to the above we (and they) need to realize what most actualized humans already know: there are pitfalls to being human! Hurting the ones you love, and being hurt by them. Disappointments. Frustrations. Longing. The context you speak of, and our ability to judge without understanding that context, works both ways. Do these characters, who for the most part want to continue operating as humans, fully understand what that means? Do you think Isabel, who probably wants most to live that normal life we've all heard so much about, really knows what she's in for? Thanks for the post...I really enjoy your thoughts. |
Posted 01-09-2002 12:01
PM by jero
quote: This sounds an awful lot like what Max said to Liz in Heatwave: MAX: Liz, I think that what I'm afraid of isn't that we try this and it works out really badly. What I'm afraid of is we try it and it works out really well. I'm afraid of feeling everything that I know I would feel. Because I know it's not meant to be. And somewhere down the line, we're gonna get hurt. I can live with that. I just couldn't bear to hurt you. So does that make Max human? BTW have you voted today? Later, |
| Posted 01-09-2002 12:21
PM by Juniper
Edited because NetRanger got it fixed, so I am no longer looking like a deadbeat. [ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: Juniper ] |
| Posted 01-09-2002 01:25
PM by AlexEvans
Their connections are what makes them human, it seems - their cold, dark side is supposedly Alien. (Given how much Pierce and Nasedo resembled each other, and I don't mean physically after Nasedo became Piercedo, this seems a little simplistic, but it will do for now.) Michael has been trying to connect. He's been growing in how he relates to Maria, and he has friends at work. Both good. On the minus side, he now places being Max's follower over being Isabel's friend, and possibly over being Max's friend. Isabel was the most human of the three, in the beginning. She concealed her feelings more, but she had them. Now she's drifted away from her parents, lied to them to protect her brother from his mistakes. Jesse, like Grant, isn't as much a person she's connected to as a person she's using to avoid connections and to avoid spending time with people she's scared she might actually let in (Alex then, Kyle now, and both times to avoid her parents and the other hybrids). She's obviously kissed both; equally obviously, neither has ever gotten a flash. Given the kissing SF of the first and second seasons, this implies she's keeping herself dangerously closed in. Max is connecting to Liz again, but his connections to Isabel and Michael seem weaker. He's lost practically all connection to his parents. Where am I going with all this? Well, what I'm wondering about is 'Vilandra.' She seemed like a separate entity inside Isabel. What if the Alien essences didn't blend with their human sides? What if inside each of them is their past self? And what if what makes them vulnerable is if they lose connections to each other and to humans? If that's so, Max and Isabel are very vulnerable. I would also add one more supposition, not any more provable than all of that; what if Max's interior 'Zan' can influence Max's actions without Max being aware of it and without the 'eye thing.' It might actually explain the blackmail and threats to Isabel, the intimidation of Liz, etc. It wouldn't be a good explanation, but at least it would reconcile Max the villain with Max the flawed hero. I think I posted this before in less detail, but I'm bored, no new Roswell... and what do you think? Am I crazy? Am I right? Should I go see if I can get into the bookstore now and buy my textbooks and not obsess over Roswell this much? |
| Posted 01-09-2002 08:03
PM by shapeshifter
Juniper et al, about Isabel & co. seeming more human than alien: First of all, they do have some human DNA (although Kal said something about it being a very small part, which surprised me). Secondly, they were nurtured and/or surrounded by humans since they came out of the pods. Finally, I think that 'becoming human' is supposed to be a metaphor for 'becoming an adult' in the teen-angst scheme of the series. |
Posted 01-10-2002 03:26
PM by Juniper
quote:
|
Posted 01-10-2002 04:21
PM by Zara
quote: Yep. I agree. HOWever, I have a horrible feeling (unspoiled) that this season's theme is about the alien presence within the podsters. Isabel now understands that Vilandra lives inside of her and that she has to suppress her. If Zan is like Mr. Hyde to Max's Dr. Jekyl, Max is completely clueless about it. (Look out, Liz!) Zan the man treats Liz, Isabel, Langley, Michael... EVERYone badly. Remember that Cal told Max that he should suppress the alien stuff and stick to humanity. I believe him. |
Posted 01-10-2002 10:04
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Pop psychology in the last decade was all about "the child within." I'm sure some of it was valid. But if we stick with the metaphor of Becoming Human = Becoming Adult, then I guess they are supposed to be trying to win the battle to leave the 'spoiled little boy' (or girl) behind. |
| Posted 01-11-2002 09:17
AM by Luna G
Nice insights on psychology shapeshifter. I love the becoming human/becoming adult metaphor. The thing that bugs me is that it's taking such a painfully long time. Which might be the point. Ho, hum. Still having a melancholy week. TGIF. |
Posted 01-11-2002 12:01
PM by AlexEvans
quote: What bugs me is that, instead of slowly progressing, they're moving backwards. That trend was very evident second season, but except for Max could be dismissed as the inevitable bumps on the road. This season they're all (humans and Aliens alike) regressing. Too bad about your week, Luna. Yes, TGIF. |
Posted 01-11-2002 12:40
PM by Juniper
quote: Well, I think you have to take into consideration that it's the teen shipper groups (gaak) that resurrected the show. I'd definitely call it regressing, but I enjoyed S2 much more than the fan base that's probably keeping it on the air. It's mainly about the relationships again, with the exception of Kal's arc. I can't say whether the loyal teen fans were more critical of S2 because it concentrated on the Sci Fi, or because Tess was breaking up the not-so-original star-crossed lovers. |
Posted 01-11-2002 02:00
PM by AlexEvans
quote: True... and I liked most of S2, up until towards the end... but my shipper group is Alex/Isabel, and that's toast of course, and I'll never really like Roswell unless they fix that. That was a rather mature relationship, in season 1 anyway, progressing steadily and not on-again off-again. In my opinion the characters and relationships develop best when they're dealing with lots of SF anyway. I liked Kal... one of very few things I liked about S3. "Secrets and Lies" (with Kal) and "Interruptus" (with Kivar) were the only eps I've cared for this year. Have to run to class, hope my post makes sense I don't have time to reread it. |
| Posted 01-11-2002 10:26
PM by shapeshifter
I too loved Kal. About Alex: In the books, when he comes back from the home planet, he is changed in appearance in a subtle way that makes him more attractive to females (irristible, actually ). So, in keeping with the Bewitched parallels of this season (i.e. Isabel/Jessie marriage), I see no reason why they couldn't hire someone else to play Alex. Of course, Colin Hanks was great in the role. ITA that the sci fi adventures of Season 2 had me riveted to the tube. About the regression: As the mom of 3 daughters, 2 of whom are now through high school, I have to say that Senior year regression is par for the course. I also worked in a high school for 4 years where they had a word for it: senioritis [ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
Posted 01-12-2002 01:08
AM by Luna G
quote: Word. And your post made total sense. I'd love to find out who the genius person is who invented the idea that you can either have science fiction or relationships. Gah. I remember (vaguely) senioritis. Had it twice. However, I can't resist asking a snarky question. Wouldn't a person have to be actually attending school to have senioritis? I'm not asking for much, just a locker shot or a stroll down the hall. It's still Friday on the West Coast, one minute to go until I turn into a pumpkin... |
| Posted 01-12-2002 01:23
AM by *ReDnGrEeNmNmS*
I like this thread. I love the Sci-Fi part of Roswell so much and I am glad there is a thread to discuss it. Peace~Jordan |
Posted 01-12-2002 07:35
AM by shapeshifter
quote: This sounds a lot like what Courtney talked about in Wipe Out with "subsets of time": quote: |
| Posted 01-12-2002 10:45
AM by Ezmeralda
I was just watching the pilot episode again, and I was wondering if any on eles noticed that the hand print of Liz's stomache was placed the wrong way. The hand print could only been made by a right hand...But Max's right hand was holding up Liz's head. He used his left hand to heal, and his thumb was pointing up. Liz's hand print has the thumb pointing down. This has proboly been brought up befor, but I just wanted to get my
observation off my chest. |
Posted 01-12-2002 11:04
AM by shapeshifter
quote: Yes, Ezmeralda, many of us have gone crazy over that one too. Probably just a blooper, but we have theories galore on the subject. If you Really want to read what we have obsessed about it, hop over to the Archive site and type the words 'handprint' and 'nemo' into the search box. Choose 'search ALL words' (the default is 'ANY' words) and you will find an ongoing (if sporadic) discussion on that topic. |
| Posted 01-12-2002 01:00
PM by AlexEvans
Senioritis... explains some stuff. I didn't suffer from it myself tho. (Don't ask about my first year at university.) I agree... I liked the high school as a setting. It's an important part of their life, considering how much time they have to spend their. And we have not one sight of the university Isabel is supposedly attending. Interesting point about the books... I've only read the first six so far, but I was glad to hear that about Alex. Given that Colin Hanks is willing to make guest appearances, I bet they could rehire him. Especially if they put Alex and Isabel back together. If Colin's too busy I'd gladly step in, however. Does the increased appeal remind anyone else of Alex's changed attitude when he "got back from Sweden?" *wanders off to dream about a Roswell that combines character/relationship development with science fiction like it did in "White Room"* |
| Posted 01-12-2002 05:40
PM by Luna G
Oooo, shapeshifter. That is a *great* quote. "the time on which the world may really run. ..." I've always clung to the hope that the funky time introduced in season two would reappear. Not subsets of time, maybe, but Run, Lola, Run would be sweet. Like in my all time favorite episode of ST: The Next Generation, when the ship explodes and they get a bunch of do-overs until they survive. Abducted Bookworm, I'd love to see Colin Hanks return sometime too. Preferably not as a ghost. Hi to Ezmeralda and redngreenmnms. [ 01-12-2002: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
| Posted 01-12-2002 07:26
PM by Nemo
Ezmeralda, before you judge whether something is up with that reversed handprint on Liz (vs. whether its just a blooper), rewatch Ask Not and notice what happens with Nasedo's remains just before they disintegrate. IMAGE: www.users.qwest.net/~daleep/roswell/NasedoR2.JPG IMAGE: www.users.qwest.net/~daleep/roswell/NasedoL2.JPG (Does that look like just a blooper too?) ------- [ 01-12-2002: Message edited by: Nemo ] |
Posted 01-13-2002 12:45
AM by jero
quote: Evidently whoever it was hasn't seen Farscape!!!! Juniper Edited because NetRanger got it fixed, so I am no longer looking like a deadbeat. Glad you got it fixed!!! I don't know about anyone else, but I pay attention to the "hand thingies" Nemo (Does that look like just a blooper too?) IMAGE: www.users.qwest.net/~daleep/roswell/NasedoR2.JPG IMAGE: www.users.qwest.net/~daleep/roswell/NasedoL2.JPG Actually Nemo, I'd say they are mirror images. The handprint was more of a makeup blooper. Have you voted today? http://www.savethatshow.com/Save_That_Show__Roswell.shtml Later, |
Posted 01-13-2002 10:29
AM by Nemo
quote:I agree they look exactly like mirror images. (I would guess they came from the same piece of film or videotape, one of them being reversed in postprocessing.) My point was that this change looks purposeful rather than accidental. It looks deliberate that we are given this left-right reversal with no actual mirror in the pod chamber to account for it. And if this reversal was intentional, why not the earlier one too? |
| Posted 01-13-2002 10:51
AM by Luna G
All is not as it seems, huh Nemo? If your theory is correct, then this image was a deliberate clue to tell us, what? Here's my spec. Edsedo didn't die. The pod chamber scene was a mindwarp. Nicholas
did die in Wipe Out, and afterwards Edsedo impersonated him. He
revealed himself to Tess in Max in the City with a reminder to get back on
the betrayal bandwagon. |
Posted 01-13-2002 01:26
PM by AlexEvans
quote: Now that is an interesting theory... but I'll ignore it for now because I'm trying to write a fic I need Nicholas for! I loved "Wipe Out." "Harvest" was good too. Now lets see if I can maintain continuity in a two fic series even though I'm writing my WO tag before my "Harvest" tag. |
Posted 01-13-2002 07:16
PM by Nemo
quote:I made a guess last year, which has been preserved here in the archive mentioned by shapeshifter. |
| Posted 01-13-2002 08:57
PM by *ReDnGrEeNmNmS*
Hehe. Hi all. I think it would be cool if Alex returned. The show is so empty without him. Peace~Jordan |
| Posted 01-14-2002 12:19
AM by Luna G
Wow, Nemo. What a great link. Everyone should go check it out. File it under "Why I fell in love with Fan Forum." |
| Posted 01-15-2002 10:26
AM by Juniper
No new episodes until 1/29? And me with all this time on my hands while work is slow. I'd like nothing more for Edsedo to come back and explain a few things, but that bell, it seems, has rung. We're lacking a villain right now and that's an unusual situation for this show. |
| Posted 01-15-2002 07:28
PM by shapeshifter
juniper, Does the Sci Fi of Roswell allow him to come back looking like Piercedo? I mean with the middle-aged-bald-shapeshifter theory of Liz's? |
| Posted 01-15-2002 08:15
PM by GilrozGirl
I should probably be asking this in a PM, but Nemo--where did you find the Ask Not screencaps? Because they're not linked to the screenshot page at Roswell Revealed, and I've been going crazy trying to find the caps from that episode. ~Gilroz Girl |
| Posted 01-15-2002 11:25
PM by Nemo
Those screencaps were at Roswell Revealed last year, but now a note on their site says some of their images (most of s2) got deleted and they haven't had time to replace them yet. (Similarly Crashdown.com s1 and s2 caps are "temporarily" unavailable; even the s3 ones won't post here, except the thumbnail sized ones.) Another source of images was "Roswell Screen Grab Galleries" at http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/roswell/philosophy/63/index.htm, but their host is said to be down for maintenance for a few days.... Then there's http://www.theddd.com/ and http://home.arcor.de/tjsrealm/Roswell/Screencaps/ [ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: Nemo ] |
| Posted 01-15-2002 11:26
PM by Luna G
Another Tuesday night without a Roswell.
I still believe. |
| Posted 01-16-2002 12:35
AM by GilrozGirl
Thanks, Nemo! I was hoping to find a cap of Nasedo turning to dust. My Fan Forum life will be so much easier when Crashdown's galleries are back up. ~Gilroz Girl |
| Posted 01-16-2002 11:33
AM by AlexEvans
Lacking a villain? What about Kivar? As far as I can tell nothing happened to him except a temporary setback. He still has whatever he used to get to Earth before, to possess somebody, dreamwalk Isabel, etc. Considering Isabel doesn't tell anyone anything (I certainly don't blame her in the case of Max and Michael, but I think she should have told her parents long ago), is it really so improbable that Kivar isn't still dreamwalking her? They need Kivar to try again. Then Isabel can go back with him, steal the Granolith, and bring back Alex. Like she should have done in "Interruptus." |
| Posted 01-16-2002 02:16
PM by Luna G
I actually like Phil Evans as a villain. See, that perfectly fits the teen-angst/coming of age theme of the show. Not only that, but a villain who has a relationship with the hero is a thousand times more interesting than the bad guy of the week. Put it like this. Darth Vader in the first Star Wars movie was a good bad guy. He was mean and tough. But things got a lot more sinister when he uttered the famous line, “No Luke. I am your father.” Why? Because now there was an intimate link between them. Or the way they're setting up Lex Luthor in Smallville. (No, I don't watch the show. I'm just guessing.) A friend turned enemy is a very powerful archetype. That's the one who can really hurt you. BTW, a bit of hope on the horizon. In a news article listed on Crashdown's News section, Katims is quoted as saying UPN has picked up 7 more episodes for a season total of 20 (The last two will be a two-part season finale). And, he actually used the word sci-fi. |
| Posted 01-17-2002 11:10
AM by jero
Vote once a day, EVERY day!!! http://www.savethatshow.com/Save_That_Show__Roswell.shtml Later, |
Posted 01-17-2002 04:21
PM by Juniper
quote: Word. I doubt that we'll be seeing more of K'var for a while. I suppose the advantage is they can hire any actor to play him, he doesn't have to be the same guy. How convenient is that? "This week's guest K'var: JoAnn Worley! Next week: Ray Allen of the NBA's Milwaukee Bucks!" |
Posted 01-17-2002 04:43
PM by Nemo
quote:http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/roswell/philosophy/63/2/asknot/askn.htm They're back up. [ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: Nemo ] |
| Posted 01-17-2002 05:40
PM by *ReDnGrEeNmNmS*
I agree with the Mr. E/Villian thing. It would make for some awesome entertainment. Peace~Jordan |
| Posted 01-19-2002 07:41
PM by jero
Off to vote http://www.savethatshow.com/Save_That_Show__Roswell.shtml I almost forgot. The site will also print out and mail a letter to the
PTB for you. Here are the links Later, |
| Posted 01-21-2002 08:48
AM by AlexEvans
I don't see Philip Evans as the villain though.. their adversary, true, but he has no evil intentions he just wants to know what's happening to his kids. Of course it turns out Valenti was never a villain... but he made an effective adversary anyway... maybe you're right, Philip Evans can be effective in that way. At this point, though, if even the Special Unit were back and hunting for Max, I'd have trouble saying that they're wrong, that Max isn't dangerous. (I couldn't turn Max over to them without endangering Isabel and Michael, unfortunately.) |
| Posted 01-21-2002 11:43
AM by GilrozGirl
Thanks, Nemo! |
| Posted 01-21-2002 10:00
PM by jero
NEW POLL....... The weekly poll at SciFi.com involves Roswell. This was posted at
Crashdown.com
The X-Files won't be back, but other SF series remain "on the bubble" for renewal for next year. Which one do you think most deserves to return? Roswell Vote here (poll is on right side): Later, |
| Posted 01-22-2002 12:46
AM by Shilohaura
The entire pod squad has ALWAYS had the potential to be dangerous! The hand that healed could also be the hand that killed, as Nesado proved. And Michael, when in danger, proved to Pierce that a non-drugged alien is not something to mess with! Max, had he known more about his powers and not been such a nice guy at the time, would have never been subjected to the torture in the White Room. Pierce and his men would've been dust on the floor of the Fun House! They ARE more dangerous now - because they're also wiser! And thus, the loss of innocense. |
Posted 01-22-2002 08:33
AM by AlexEvans
quote: Michael was dangerous to Pierce, because Pierce was trying to capture and torture them. I'd feel perfectly safe in the same room with Michael, or Isabel. I mean Max is dangerous in a different way. I certainly disagree that they're 'wiser.' Much the opposite. They have a little more knowledge they aren't wise enough to analyze properly. They're slightly older. Certainly more powerful. But nothing in their conduct indicates they are wiser, or more mature. (The exception is Michael over the course of the first and much of the second season.) You're quite right about the loss of innocence, of course. |
| Posted 01-23-2002 08:40
PM by shapeshifter
it looks like next week's ep will have lots of pseudo sci fi. here's the official UPN promo: http://www.upn.com/shows/roswell/vrosa/rosaqt.html |
| Posted 01-29-2002 03:44
PM by Luna G
All right--new Roswell. I'm gearing up to find out what a time-space slipstream is. |
| Posted 01-29-2002 06:49
PM by jero
Posted at Crashdown quote: Later, |
| Posted 01-29-2002 09:07
PM by shapeshifter
I sat down to watch a show that I was sure would scream "I deserved to be cancelled," and I was happily surprised to get up from it thinking, "I bet the new UPN exec is sorry she cancelled it." Then, I logged on and read that 'reports of Roswell's demise were slightly exaggerated' (to paraphrase someone--was it Mark Twain or Will Rogers?) Okay, I do not have time now to rewatch & take notes on all the alien power stuff since I need to work on some work stuff. But there's lots. It was almost like one of those kids books where you have to name 10 things in each picture that are 'out of place,' only it was 'from outer space.' |
| Posted 01-29-2002 09:11
PM by jero
Thanks SS for the encouraging and quick! review. I'm looking forward to seeing it this Saturday! Later, |
| Posted 01-29-2002 11:57
PM by Luna G
The Science Fiction of I Married An Alien That was a strange hybrid viewing experience. Hybrid. Heh. That's what my brain does when I'm not looking. Right, the hybrid of a cheerful old sitcom and our depressing old Roswell. I'm going to have to watch it again, because I think there were a lot of details I missed in the switching back and forth. I wish I had watched an episode of Bewitched more recently. But for now: POWERS, POWERS, EVERYWHERE: Painting, golfing, car repair, hair extensions, TV demolition, making toast...oh, no wait. She did that one by hand. I thought it was endearing how Isabel burnt the french toast when she didn't use her powers. I think that was ripped off from a sitcom too, but I can't remember which one. Was it Bewitched? Also, did anyone else think they totally deserved to be found out when Michael started brazenly displaying his powers on the golf course? I've noticed a number of times lately when the use of their alien powers seemed to be electrical. The lightning under Michael's skin, the fricassee (remember Kal?), the way the TV blew up, the overload on the computer. Do you think there's a trend here, or is it just my brain desperately seeking patterns amid meaningless data? WILLING SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF: Not as completely obtuse as we were beginning to believe, Jesse noticed the healing, he noticed the steak, he noticed the sex. He just was too much of a gentleman to say anything. Question: Will Isabel ever tell Jesse the truth? Fear is a hard emotion to conquer. THEY'RE THE ROSWELL ALIENS: Well, I'm glad somebody finally figured it out. Do you think Phil Evans will write "Roswell Aliens" on his secret bulletin board now? Will Michael make the cut and join team Conspiracy? Have we seen the last of Eric the reporter? ALIEN SEX: This one just won't go away. According to Max it's like this hot electric energy that lasts an hour. According to Jesse, it's hallucinogenic, like being on acid. (Which he's never done, BTW) He likes it, but it's definitely weird. So what is this experience? A biological reaction? A psychic connection? Wish-fulfillment on the part of the writers? Anyone want to take a stab at this topic? So glad to hear that Roswell isn't cancelled. At least not this week. Sigh. So, what did you all think? |
Posted 01-30-2002 11:42
AM by Juniper
quote: And I'm sure I was not the only one thinking Eric the Reporter would be finding Phil Evans' secret bulletin board. One thing that harkened back to earlier discussions was Max and Michael "fighting over the remote," Antar-style. Except when Michael blows his cool he once again blows something up. Isabel is my new best friend for doing hair. I couldn't help remembering how her season one powers tended toward the cosmetic and the domestic. Kyle is my new probably gay best friend because of his Village People biker chic. Very good point about Jesse not being as dumb as the brick we all thought he was. Attention homeowners: did you all recognize the paint as Behr brand, available at fine home depots everywhere? |
| Posted 01-30-2002 12:45
PM by AlexEvans
It was a travesty. That wasn't Alien powers, it was magic. It was stupid, unbelievable and unfunny. Jesse had a good moment - the injunction thing - but overall I hate him more than ever, as I have after every other episode he's appeared in. It showed how incredibly miserable Isabel's life is now... but we knew that. Really, the only new things are about Michael. He apparently survived at least a week on his own out in the desert. And he was levitating a table within a year after hatching. Rather impressive. |
Posted 01-30-2002 06:58
PM by shapeshifter
quote: "Wish-fulfillment on the part of the writers" But of course! Um, since I don't recall anything electrical about the acid experience from my much younger and idiotic years. Okay, I promise to rewatch and take notes as soon as I'm done with my presentation on how to research thermal noise tommorrow. Well, at least I promise to do so by sometime tomorrow night. Because I REALLY DID like this ep. I laughed out loud when Michael parted the trees with the stoned reporter watching. But um, how come the reporter acted so unstoned? No puffy read eyes? No slurred speech? Was he really smokin' weed, or was that just a ruse to spy on Michael? To those who were not amused: humor is very subjective; you have to relate to the situation; I'm not proud of my past trists with tetrhydracannabinol or with lysergic acid diethemylide, but it did make it funnier. And I also watched the Jetsons, Bewitched, and I Dream of Jeanie when I was a kid. Hmmm...was Jessie doing a little Fred Flintstone & Archie Bunker? And more on the OT front: Since Jessie probably lied to Iz about the acid, I am guessing he will forgive her for not telling him about her alien status. [ 01-30-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
Posted 02-01-2002 06:09
PM by Juniper
quote: No, I think it was pure Darren Stevens he was channeling. He must have studied Dicks Sargent and York. I agree about possibly having to be a bit older and more experienced -- or at least grow up with cheesy tv -- to be amused by this ep. While I don't know that the drug humor was quite appropriate for teen drama, I thought it was a really clever way of handling the Jesse/Isabel situation, and it could have been way more over-the-top than it was. |
| Posted 02-01-2002 11:23
PM by shapeshifter
OK, I have a serious Roswell sci fi issue from this ep: About the carbureator. Having spent enough $$ on carbureators in my day to have bought another car (again, you have to have be old enough to have been driving pre-90's vehicles to relate), it seems that Isabel must have either:
|
| Posted 02-02-2002 09:54
AM by Luna G
Hey all. Where did the week go? Yeah, I'm old enough to have seen way, way too many episodes of Bewitched in my time. It was my mom's favorite show. The loathing of "apelike" humans would have fit right in with the attitudes the witches and warlocks in Bewitched (with the exception of Samantha) had toward Darren et al. However, this was a telling metaphor for me, and may hint at a more subtle form of contempt lurking beneath the surface. shapeshifter, I'm inclined to go with #3 myself. Thinking all the way back to the pilot, Max once took the face off of a statue, then put it back. In order to do that, he'd have to remember what it looked like in excrutiating detail. In order to manipulate the molecular structure of things, you have to understand it first. Regarding the use of "magic" in this episode, I think Clarke's law is relevant. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Clarke may have been referring to machines when he wrote this, but surely biological advances have a similar potential to amaze and bewilder the uninitiated. If anything, I think the writers are very much aware that the "science" of the Roswell universe is bordering on fantasy, so they played up the magic angle with this episode. The convergence of the magic and the alien powers just shows us the wizard behind the curtain. Juniper: Behr paint? Some prop guy's got to be so proud of himself for that little joke. [ 02-02-2002: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
| Posted 02-04-2002 12:10
PM by jero
Posting blind... VOTING: Here's a new one, very similar, probably more important as there's a
"No, Cancel It" button Later, |
| Posted 02-05-2002 11:31
AM by shapeshifter
Something to consider in viewing CCC: Consider this for tonight's ep: quote: |
| Posted 02-05-2002 01:39
PM by Max0613
Hi all. I just wanted to touch back to something in earlier posts with Departure. How much of a possibility is it that Tess's real objective was not to bring the rest of the pod squad back to Antar with Max's baby, but that she was supposed to get the granolith back to Kivar instead. This makes sense to me because Nicholas and the dupes had the chance to mindwarp her in MITC and then control things with Alex behind the scenes I don't think Tess is really powerful enough to mindwarp Alex for months, but if she was then maybe the reason that Amy's and Kyle's mindwarp ran out so fast is because her energy was depleted from the longterm mindwarp of Alex. But since I think that is highly unlikely, then it must have been Nicholas and the dupes. Also just taking the granolith back would leave Max and the rest of the pod squad stranded with no way to return to Antar. So nobody would be coming back to oppose his rule especially if he possesed the power of the granolith. It was said, by the dupes I think, that the granolith was some sort of religious thing and we know that it is very powerful, as Liz said, because it can be used for time travel. So even if she was supposed to bring back the pod squad, it was probably the icing on the cake since Kivar would have the granolith back as well. Then maybe the uprising and bloodshed the dupes talked about would be quelled and allow Kivar to rule in some sort of peace. The baby thing was probably just a ruse to get them to return home for Kivar's enjoyment of executing them. Anyways, who else would have the key to use on the granolith except for Nasedo who supposedly set up the whole thing, which he probably left with Tess. Also who would have an alien bomb, or know how to build one, besides Nicholas. This is why I think that Nicholas used Tess's key for the granolith and used her to get the pod squad home. I hope all this makes sense because I tend to babble when I'm putting my ideas down. What do you guys think? |
| Posted 02-05-2002 11:05
PM by shapeshifter
Luna, It's almost midnight here, and to paraphrase the gal in the Beatles' Norwegian Wood song: I told 'em I worked in the morning and started to laugh. So just 2 quick things:
IMAGE: www.ulink.net/plum/Various/thing2.gif Thing 2:
Oh, one more thing, I was confused about Liz saying she was going away to figure it out by herself. It seemed that Liz The Scientist would have gone away as an experiment to see if the symptoms cleared up. |
| Posted 02-05-2002 11:39
PM by Luna G
The Science Fiction of Ch-Ch-Changes No longer just a theory, Changed Liz is now a Roswell reality. (pause while the Fanforum community yells a collective "I told you so") Got that off your chest? Okay then, here are some questions arising from this episode: HYBRID? ALIEN? HUMAN?: What is different about Liz, and what is the same? I like what the doctor said, "there can be consequences of knowing someone intimately." Somehow I don't think this is the alien flu. Has Liz been changed on the genetic level? Is it mental? What was that white glowy thing that Max was pulling out of her? ALIEN POWERS: Okay, exactly how do these alien powers work? Melting a plate? Powering a radio? Blowing up the healing stones? Liz doesn't have control over what's happening to her. Are they rudimentary alien powers similar to Michael's blow-ups when he and Maria were breaking up? There were the electrical/heat effects, as well as Liz's hearing/perception problems. During her hallucinations, it almost seemed like she was cut loose in time. Oh, and did that scene with the mirror look like the scene from The Matrix to anyone else? THE MAX CONNECTION: Why did it seem like Max made Liz worse? Shades of Sexual Healing and glowing hickeys? Will Liz be lightning-free in Vermont? There are two possibilities that come to mind: (a) Max's presence makes Liz emotional, and she loses control, or (b) it's because Max was the one that changed her in the first place. If it's (b): run, Kyle, run. TWO YEARS IN THE MAKING: Ava mentioned the possibility of this in Max in the City. "If Max brought you back, you're different now." Was this change inevitable? Was it just a matter of time, or was there a specific trigger for this change? Is Kyle destined to develop green electric lights? What about the kids from the hospital? Oh, and a big thumbs up to the quote of the week. "Mr. Evans, Miss Parker, is there a problem in your corner of teen angst?" And yes, shapeshifter, I thought that fruit fly comment was significant too. I got one word more than you "fruit flies and genetic hierarchy. I'll go back and check my tape. (Got it: He says, "We'll use the fruit flies to discover genetic hierarchies. How traits change within a population and why...") [ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
| Posted 02-06-2002 11:47
AM by Juniper
Two things I took away from this episode: 1. It must be sweeps if we must throw stupid obstacles in the way of true love. 2. The UPN's special effects budget sucks arse. Okay, so Max's presence, not to mention his newest levitation trick (cf. Two Parties), is hurting Liz. I don't think it's A (making Liz emotional) because she's generally pretty good at keeping herself on an even keel. However, her monologue in the desert about how he has hurt her seemed to be something she could not control given her subsequent conversation with Kyle. (How cool is Kyle these days? Huh? Huh?) My suspicion is that it's Max's nearness causing the Lizbot to malfunction. His powers amplify or intensify hers. Let's say it's his "aura." We did not see her in proximity to Michael or Iz, so I can't say if the others would elicit the same effect. This might have been left intentionally ambiguous: I was surprised that Max would take the stones and try to 'heal' her without the other two for backup. If Michael or Iz would not have the same effect, then there is obviously something about either the relationship between Max and Liz (I discount this for the reason below) or it's the fact that he healed her/brought her back to life. Why now? (Yes, because it's sweeps, but whatever.) Why two years in the making? It seemed like it was presented as a given that this would ultimately affect Kyle. This is why I don't think that it's the Max/Liz romantic relationship that has the effect. Plenty of fanfic writers, I'm sure, would have other theories. Max and Kyle have always had great screen chemistry! So it's the fact of bringing back to life a changed person that is the root cause. Any sort of pseudo-science that can be applied here? And how is this "change" in any way related to Liz being able to contact Max telepathically in NY? These are only wandering thoughts. Hope you can make sense out of them. |
| Posted 02-06-2002 09:48
PM by shapeshifter
So: Fruit fly genetic hierarchies changing in a population Hierarchies in a population Changes 1st generation (top of hierarchy) would be Original Zan from Antar 2nd generation would be Max the clone of human + essence of Zan 3rd generation would be changed human (i.e. Liz) This is what we are studying, class. |
| Posted 02-06-2002 10:29
PM by jero
Posting blind (again)... Valentine Campaign has officially begun! Here's the link to the instructions and images And don't forget VOTE DAILY http://www.savethatshow.com/Save_That_Show__Roswell.shtml http://www.savemyshow.com/shows/roswell.htm Later, |
| Posted 02-07-2002 09:52
AM by Luna G
So, shapeshifter, does changed Liz represent a new hierarchy within the human population? A breed of superhumans? Number 4 on your list would be plain old humans. Will the changes in Liz, Kyle, et al, be passed on to their children? Or is this a "mutation" that will die off after one generation? Hi Max0613. Thanks for your post. There are far too many unanswered questions from Departure, and those are some of them. I don't really have anything to add. Too many questions, not enough answers. |
| Posted 02-09-2002 04:20
PM by shapeshifter
Over on another thread several posters have suggested that Liz's symptoms could indicate that she is dealing with the fallout of living in an altered time dimension. Yes, Ava did say that Liz is changed because Max "brought [her] back," but maybe these symptoms are not just caused by the healing. It was pointed out that in the non-EOTW existence, Max & Liz had lived physically happily ever after, at least there was no mention of her having physical problems. There was also Liz's theory in SH that the glowing hickie was from being apart from Max. Maybe they were apart too long & now can't get close to cementing without bad symptoms? Back to the ideas of the symptoms caused by messing with time: FM tells PL that the problem is that she is not allowing herself to change. He also said they needed Tess because she was an essential part of the 4. Others have suggested that the "cementing" was what stopped Liz from "changing" or "grow"ing. This would fit as a metaphor for teen maturation process too. Maybe the main problem with Tess was that she joined the other side. I would like to think the EOTW plan was to have Liz change & then cement with Max when she was fully mature, but in the opening scenes of the ep they say that if he succeeds they will never see each other again. But then FM tells Liz about the wedding right after telling her he can't say too much. So maybe that was enough to make it so in the new timeline they could be together? But it also contributed to Alex's death? One more point in this mess: The VLV hallucination that Max saw would indicate that the old time sequence still exists. The posters on the other thread thought the garbled words were the result of similar perceptions of crossed time sequences. |
| Posted 02-12-2002 11:51
PM by Luna G
The Science Fiction of Panacea Wow. I'm having trouble collecting my thoughts after watching Max Evans dissolve into a pile of dust. Talk about your Roswell/Buffy crossover action. Aside from the fact that Max is apparently dead, there were some odd things about his demise. And I'm not just talking about the similarity between his death and Nasedo's. Now, we've seen Max heal a number of times before. Just in this episode
in fact. There normally isn't a white light, a mini-earthquake, an
ultra-quick aging process or a ring of fire. Something was different this
time. Some ideas: Some other thoughts on this episode. CH-CH-CHANGES: A big round of applause, boys and girls. Let's all welcome the newest member of the I've Been Changed by an Alien Club, Mr. Jim Valenti. THE SOUND OF HIS VOICE: It's official. Max makes Liz into Electric Girl. Even his voice on the telephone will do it. Anyone know whether auras can travel through phone lines? Other than the melted phone, there was only one other Liz-powers moment this week. Across the miles, Liz knows Max is dead. Was it a dream? Intuition? Astral Projection? If Max is dead, does that mean that Electric Girl is back to normal now? Will her powers go away? Huh. Maybe that should have been The I've Been Changed by an Alien But Now I've Changed Back Club. METACHEM AND MICHAEL'S BLOOD: And Liz's dress, and the bottle of Tabasco, and that same petulant photo of Michael. MetaChem has some very fine resources in order to gather so much information. Are they what they appear? Just a rich old man, his wife and some very fine P.I.'s and scientists? Or is there a government connection? I'll point out that the wife claimed that they'd been studying the dress for two years. That means they got it from the special unit while the special unit was still very much in business. Hmmm... Panacea, for the record, means "a remedy for all disease or ills; cure-all." Physician, heal thyself. |
Posted 02-13-2002 11:42
AM by shapeshifter
quote:Luna: Excellent review! The circle around Max's body reminded me of Michael in Balance. I too considered they might be Skins. But maybe they bought the dress etc. on Ebay? The American flags in NYC indicate that this was the post-9/11 ep, and as such portrayed the sense of loss of something that is great and of innocence. |
| Posted 02-13-2002 02:56
PM by Juniper
Some things we know that we might not have known before: Michael can't heal. Or at least, can't bring back the dead. He can untwist ankles, though, right? Inductively, I think this addresses an ongoing question. Not all podsters are created equal -- or at least have the same skills. (Side note: though Max became the focus of the episode, and had the humongo death scene, I thought Mikey G did a great job being freaked about his friend, freaked about the investigation, and freaked about Jim. He sold it, and I bought it.) Max "takes on" his 'patient's' ailment. He got old because he took the oldness away from the guy. This concept is often bandied about in healing circles; some healers say you must cleanse yourself or perform self-protecting rituals after performing a healing, because when you've taken away someone's disease you've allowed the disease to enter your body. Others say this is bullcrap. Right or wrong, it's a fairly typical issue among healers. Some say they're drained after a healing, some say energized. But have we seen Max do this before? Take on a symptom? He looked exhausted after healing the children - could it have been somewhat caused by taking on their pain? (Mr. Juniper is a very gifted healer, and does not buy into the theory that you absorb or are vulnerable to your patient's misery, for what it's worth.) Liz and Max are connected. She knew he was "dead." Is it psychic/mental? Physical? Emotional? All or most of the above? Max is causing Liz's change of life, but it doesn't appear to be the result of physical proximity. On to other topics. To dust returneth. Not being a Buffy watcher, the fact that this not-so-special effect is derivative doesn't bother me. We often talk about "electric" references in the pod squad's powers. Seems to me there's as many things going to dust. Threatening notes, skins, Nasedo, now Max. This is a very Earth-centric concept. We all become part of the earth - so therefore the Earth - eventually. Even aliens? I guess so. The old man. Max couldn't save Grandma Claudia (I forget the reason he gave, but it made sense at the time). Why would he think he could manage this? The threat on his own life? Jim's? What? Wouldn't you have said, "I'm the one with the healing powers here, so how about you let my friend go, get the goons with the guns to take a hike, and we'll deal?" Unless, as Luna says, he wasn't strictly trying to heal, but do something else. Something to get them out of the situation. I didn't really see what happens to the old man, did it seem he was doing fine? Was there a reason for Jesse's 30-second scene? I suppose I'll find out next time. Are the MediChem people g-men? I don't think so. Just private citizens with vast resources. Remember, Morgan Fairchild didn't say "you're the alien," but "you're the healer." Her speech about their 22-year marriage was sure odd. It reminded me of the Mercedes TV campaign about things not being what they seem. In Roswell, are things ever what they seem? |
Posted 02-13-2002 03:20
PM by Zara
quote: Do you think he tried? It didn't look like that to me. I was actually wishing he would try it just to see what would happen. I wouldn't be surprised if Michael (or anyone else, for that matter) would be capable of healing. So far, without a whole lot of training, their gifts have manifested themselves in keeping with their natural tendancies. (Max is compassionate, Michael is a reactionary, Isabel is a bit of a snoop, and Tess is a manipulator.) I know that's harsh, but, that doesn't mean they can't learn new tricks, so to speak. |
| Posted 02-13-2002 03:42
PM by Juniper
Zara: I couldn't agree more with everything you say. I was disappointed that he couldn't do it, but you're right, he didn't appear to try. It moved the plot along better, though. Saying their powers reflect their innate tendencies/capabilities has become the popular anthem, but I've always found that to be a bit simplistic and convenient - I take it you do too. My, what a lovefest we're having here today. Juniper |
| Posted 02-13-2002 04:40
PM by zmeister
Hey guys! I just dropped by to give the sci-fi some food for thought. As far as the Max is dead scene, it reminded me of David Cronenberg's Scanners. The movie is about the abiltiy to read or scan minds. At the end of the movie the two antagonists are trying to kill each other by frying each others brain. One guy whose body is getting torched by the other is able to take over the other's body and in the end survive while his body is toast. |
Posted 02-13-2002 08:38
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Taking on another's pain, suffering, or sins is a spiritual concept that fits with Max as a type of Christ. I think it's a fairly universal concept as what parent hasn't longed to take on the pain of a sick child? For that matter, I have prayed to take on the emotional pain of someone with whom I happen to empathize. The 'dust returneth' is also a spiritual concept which goes beyond Old Testament writings--I believe many people groups have ancestors of 'clay' in their stories.
quote:gaack! Say it isn't so!! Not Max imprisoned in the old guy's body? |
| Posted 02-14-2002 12:34
AM by Luna G
Essence exchange. I've been giving some thought today to the idea that there was some kind of switching between Max and the old guy. I've read other SF stories in which bringing someone back from the dead meant reaching through some kind of barrier in order to retrieve the soul/spirit of the victim. If this is what Max has been doing with Liz, Kyle, etc. then his power involves an ability to connect with and reintegrate the essence of a person. It's that, and not the physical knitting together of bones and blood vessels that sets his power apart from Michael's. In addition, someone (I've no idea who, sorry) theorized in the past that Max placed a part of his own "essence" into Liz when he saved her, which is why she's changed now. So, we've already got some supporting evidence for both essence retrieval and essence transfer. Ah, metaphysics. Now if Max survives, and they can get a hold of Alex's essence, and find him a new body... |
Posted 02-14-2002 09:16
PM by shapeshifter
quote:**Sigh** I like the original Alex body. And Max too. |
| Posted 02-14-2002 10:22
PM by jero
I haven't seen Panacea.... ~Is it Saturday yet?~
quote: From "Pilot" LIZ: Wait, what does that mean? [Max goes to a clay sculpture on a nearby table and moves his hand in front of it, the shape changes] MAX: That's, uh, that's how I healed you.
quote: From "Leaving Normal" MAX: I can't stop, you know what's going to happen The other aliens should be able to heal, if what Max said in "Pilot" is true. Later, |
| Posted 02-15-2002 09:35
AM by Luna G
I guess it's just easier to give lessons on cracking rocks than on healing the dying. |
| Posted 02-15-2002 11:05
AM by Juniper
Good sleuthing, Jero. Unfortunately the "specialization" or compartmentalization of the R4's powers seems to indicate otherwise. Again, it begs the question: why did Max try to save the old man if he knew he couldn't? |
| Posted 02-15-2002 05:09
PM by Luna G
Okay, regarding the specialization, does it seem likely that there is a strictly biological reason for it, or could it be a matter of what "muscles" they exercised over the years? For example: Nature vs. nurture is an old chestnut, but relevant to our podsters who are, after all, alien (in part) by nature and human by nurture. Juniper, in terms of why Max attempted to heal the old guy, my theory is that he was trying to do something else, because there was a peculiar little nod at Valenti right before he did it. But another possibility is that he thought he could find something to heal, that would give the guy a few more months, and then he and Valenti could get out of there in one piece. Does anyone have any thoughts on why the glass beakers were shattering during the "healing"? |
Posted 02-16-2002 10:35
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Maybe the Michael blood injected in the guy reacted with Max's power, buffering it? Over on blu5 they're wondering if the old guy is Max's donor. And also, since they had so many alien artifacts, did they have some blu goo at one time? [ 02-17-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 02-18-2002 05:12
AM by The Kender
Hi Just unlurking to add my idea, please keep in mind that i haven't seen this epp, only seen screen caps and read the synopsis. I think that Max tried to physically change places with the old man. In the books couldn't Max do this thing where he could molecularly disassemble himself and then reassemble himself somewhere else? Sort of like the transports on Star Trek. Wouldn't it just be a more advanced form of the molecular manipulation that they do. Maybe he was trying to do something like that, that was why Max started to look old. They were changing place on the molecular level at the same time. And maybe "Max" turned to dust because the old man, who is now in "Max's" place, didn't survive because of him already being old and sick and it was too much of a shock to his body. I hope that made some sort of sense |
| Posted 02-18-2002 10:18
AM by Luna G
Kender, I like your switching places idea. Sort of a short distance teleport? It's got real potential. There'd have to be some kind of limitation built in, to explain why they couldn't use this power to travel the cosmos, but I think it's one of the better theories I've heard. Shapeshifter, I was thinking about the gandarium over the weekend as well, wondering if there could be traces in Michael's blood. But weren't all the gandarium destroyed when they killed the queen? I suppose they could have run across the gandarium and injected the old man last year or something... |
| Posted 02-18-2002 09:04
PM by shapeshifter
Kender: Good point about the ash indicating that someone had died. Over on the UPN boards Rusty Antler asks: quote: |
| Posted 02-24-2002 09:03
PM by jero
Time to resume my campaigning... http://www.savemyshow.com/shows/roswell.htm Not sure how long this one lasts.. poll is down on right side. http://www.savethatshow.com/Save_That_Show__Roswell.shtml http://www.yahoo.com/ Later, |
| Posted 02-25-2002 12:29
AM by Impala
Thanks, jero for the links and information! I voted and did the http://www.yahoo.com/ search for Roswell. Thank you! |
| Posted 02-27-2002 12:04
AM by Luna G
The Science Fiction of Chant Down Babylon Well. There were a lot of new elements tonight, and I'm having trouble digesting them all. Science fiction? Science fantasy? Can we come up with a rational explanation for the events of Chant Down Babylon? And what's the deal with that song anyway? Off-topic for sci-fi? You betcha. Here are the real sci-fi questions arising from this week's episode. 1. Recombinant Personalities. Is it Max? No, it's Clayton. Wait, maybe it's Max. Putting two minds into a single head is a bold and complicated task. Some of a strictly scientific persuasion might even say an impossible task. Is a person the sum of their neural pathways? Is there a soul that exists outside the physical brain? I have to agree with shapeshifter that our writers left it open for now. However, it's not the first time for this subject. There's been a question about whether Vilandra within Isabel is a true supressed personality that could come out and take over. Hah--maybe proto-Zan is still lurking in Max's brain. Oh, no wait, that's been disintegrated. Max's essence went into Clayton, and took over. Does that mean proto-Zan is gone forever? Or were there three essences in Clayton's head? 2. Liz's Powers. Green electricity, back and beautiful. Liz may not be exactly in control of her powers, but they did erupt when she needed them in this episode. Is this the beginning of some kind of rudimentary control? Anyone want to take a guess about what she did to Max (er, Clayton)? I also noticed a return to the strange time-shifting disorientation. Both Liz and Max/Clayton experienced it. Could there actually be some kind of tear forming in time/space due to their "connection"? 3. Flashes. Must it always be kissing? Continuity, or at least the opportunity to recycle some old footage. (Sorry all, I'm feeling a little snarky tonight.) How about when Clayton/Max sees flashes of Liz while kissing Meris? Remind anyone of that Tess kiss in Departure? 4. That Healing Touch. Who was it that said that Michael could have healed Monk if he had really tried? Guess it's true. Michael healed Isabel. Liz healed Max. In both cases, there was a white light. There was also a white light when Max tried to heal Clayton. So, white light = life essence, I'm guessing. What I want to know is whether Izzy will be sporting a shiny new silver handprint in the future. If you count Michael in The Balance, then the only ones who haven't been brought back from the dead now are Maria and Jesse. In case anyone's been counting. And Alex. Which leads me to the Roswell quote of the week. "I was somewhere else but I followed your voice back." For all of us who have ever lost a loved one, I have to say--if only it were so easy. The universe of science fiction, much derided by the academics, allows us on occasion a glimpse into a world that is better than our own. A world in which love triumphs over death. |
Posted 02-27-2002 07:43
AM by Zara
quote: MEMEMEMEME! I was so happy to see Michael heal, even though I don't think he realized he'd done it... I especially liked how it happened as a side effect of Michael's love and concern for Isabel. |
| Posted 02-27-2002 09:02
AM by Rebecca
I'm intrigued by this new body Max has. It's Clayton's human body, human blood etc... Max's hybrid human/Alien DNA mix, Alien blood, cerebral tatoo, body is now dust. It's simply Max's essessence that resides in this new body now. The body, hybrid or human, is simply a conduit. He still has his powers because these are human powers after all, and as Agent Pierce said in The White Room, it has to do with the neuro transmitters or something like that in the brain. Since we know Max CHANGES people when he heals them, he changed Clayton's body too and basically enabled it. So, now, as a viewer, I'm assuming Max is walking around with a fully Human body with fully Human blood. NO ALIEN DNA. As for the Royal tatoo, I figure he could use his powers to stencil his brain if it mattered to him. Of course now I'm wondering what the significance of not having Alien DNA anymore is. I don't think Michael completely healed Isabel. But there was a transferance of life force, a transferance of energy, and it was enough to conquer the fever/infection. Now Isabel will either heal normally, like Max's bruises did in Leaving Normal, or Max will heal her completely when he returns to Roswell. It's true Michael did heal River Dog's twisted or broken ankle in Season 1, but maybe fusing a bone is more like heating a burger with your hand, and that sealing cut open flesh requires a bit more skill. [ 02-27-2002: Message edited by: Rebecca ] |
| Posted 02-27-2002 01:17
PM by shapeshifter
Rebecca, I'm not convinced that the New Max has no alien DNA. In fact, I'm wondering if what we saw was similar to the way the podsters were originally cloned--or at least similar to some of the Antarians' earlier experiments in this field. Something else: the defrocked doctor says he removed Isabel's spleen. Why mention that? quote:Edited to add: over on blu5 greg is speculating that Dr.Quack is going to sell Isabel's spleen to her dad, the fibbies, or...? [ 02-27-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 02-28-2002 10:47
AM by Rebecca
Bumping this to page 1 so I can find it again. Have to bring something I posted on the GD thread here. |
| Posted 02-28-2002 10:51
AM by Rebecca
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by not of this earth: Because Clayton turned into an exact replica of Max, I'd assume that
Max's DNA is the same as it was before and because of this and Max's
energy field, everything ought to be exactly as it was
before.
What about that ending? I'm still trying to figure out what exactly transpired. Max and Liz are falling, possibly to their death, in mid air Max asserts control over the body he's been struggling in and uses his powers to save the Love of his Life. He then crashes to the ground. Does he die? Is he at death's door or just unconscious? I didn't see any green glowing electricity when Liz touched his face, not like moments before up in the Attic when she had been shoving him away from her. Maybe that's not neccessarily because he was now dead, maybe she was just no longer resenting Max at that moment. Maybe it's not that Liz "healed" Max as he was laying there on the ground, I didn't see any energy transference or anything... Maybe it was that Max, in order to save Liz, had to conquer Clayton, destroy him as an obstacle, in order to save her. What did Max mean when he said to Liz, "You brought me back" (was that what he said?) How do you think she did that exactly?? |
Posted 02-28-2002 08:33
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Rebecca, I've been enjoying pondering this too, and have noticed that there is a white light at Liz's hands just like the white light from Michael's hands when Isabel says she was away someplace else, but she heard Michael's voice. Have you read the books that the series was based on? At the end of the last one, Liz saves Max by dissolving her atoms so they can call all of Max's scattered atoms back to her. This seems similar to what we saw with both healings in CDB, but in a more spiritual way rather than physical. I am also thinking that it is the "bringing back" that imparts "special powers" (as Ava said), not just the saving of a life via "molecular manipulation." |
| Posted 03-01-2002 09:28
AM by Rebecca
Hmm, Liz and the white light. I must've missed that. I saw a white kind of morph when Old Clayton's face surfaced, but I didn't think the white came from Liz's hands. And I was expecting Liz to use her power's to heal Max too - I'm gonna check out my tape tonight and look for it. I like your idea about the 'bring back', you could be on to something. I've been thinking about the body thing some more. The two ideas I'm playing with about the merge are, is it a Molecular reconfig/Shape Shift thing pure and simple, or is it a Alien blood/DNA thing and if it is a DNA thing, then somehow Max must've transferred some of his Hybrid DNA with his essence. What happens to Clayton's resident DNA? I'm not a Genetisist, but maybe it's disassembled, it's bonds unravel, the double helix disintegrates and the Hybrid DNA in all it's gandarium alienness replicates, accelerated and rapidly! Now on the other hand, if it's a simple Molecular reconfig/SS thing, then Max's alien essence in conjuction with the injected alien blood in conjunction with Max's healing powers enabled Max to entirely reconfigure Clayton's DNA into Max's. Clayton's atoms were totally rearranged, but his spirit was still housed intact, along with Max's now. I know we've never seen the Podsters achieve this great a SS. The SS they've exhibited in the past I think have only been skin deep; Mike SS his fingerprint in WR and the Rath and Lonnie SS their skin tatoos and hair. So I don't know. I'm really hoping we get some small shred of a clue in the next eppy, ya know Max explaining to Mike & Iz that he didn't die with something more than an I don't know answer. Ron Moore - please. [ 03-01-2002: Message edited by: Rebecca ] |
| Posted 03-01-2002 08:56
PM by Luna G
Hi Rebecca! You've been doing some great thinking on this whole Max/Clayton body issue. I was working on this whole theory about how Max slipped his molecules in amongst Clayton's, kind of like a piggyback. Your theories make much more sense. I'm most inclined to go with this one:
quote: I never really understood why they could change other things but not shapeshift themselves. Plus, in this episode, you see Michael switching the plants back and forth, so clearly the podsters can reconfigure even living things on a genetic level. It seemed to me, though, that Max was able to change the body faster than the mind. Scientifically, this is all very shaky, but it seemed as if Clayton's brain was slowly converting to Max's--Max's memories were coming through more and more as the episode progressed. I suspect that in the end, even if Max's body was entirely destroyed, the new Max is an exact replica of the old Max, alien blood and all--Clayton's body was wiped and rebooted in the minty-fresh gandarium version. shapeshifter: Regarding the doctor selling the spleen, let's hope not. We've got too many wild cards in this conspiracy already. the parent, the private investigator, the social worker, the reporter, the doctor... Although, I do have to admit they set it up by letting us know two things: 1) he had money troubles, and 2) he's not honest. Not an auspicious combination. And that spleen would be just loaded with alien blood cells. Guess we'll find out in April. |
Posted 03-01-2002 11:35
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Rebecca, ITA w/Luna: great food for thought! So, I'm thinking Max's essence and some of his original, gandariumized DNA got sucked into Clayton's body/being in a sort of wormhole effect during the healing. The gandariumization and/or Max's bond with Liz was then what gave him the winning edge in the fight for the body. I can't stop thinking that the new Max should have looked like Michael, though (because of the blood). This would have had a lot of potential for future humor and exploration of the concept of 'loving the person within.' Plus, if BF had wanted to stay with the show & JB had wanted to move on, it would have been a much nicer (if not tidier) way to get rid of an actor's responsibilities than the Death of Alex. Of course, I don't think BF has any interest in staying beyond JB. Have we explored the reasons of the fire of circle at the end of the rejuvination of Clayton?
quote:Hmmm, well, let's hope he sells it to Phil Evan's PI for a king's sister's ransom, and then Isabel converts 1's to 20's to pay him back. Ever-so-slightly OT: |
| Posted 03-08-2002 05:17
PM by shapeshifter
The Binary Code has been cracked! Over at blu5, Dixie posted this: quote: |
| Posted 03-08-2002 08:10
PM by jero
You know what to do!!!! http://www.savemyshow.com/shows/roswell.htm http://www.savethatshow.com/Save_That_Show__Roswell.shtml (UC UNDERCOVER Total Number of Responses: 33283) http://www.yahoo.com/ Later, |
| Posted 03-11-2002 09:13
AM by Luna G
Yes, but Alex wasn't dead yet when he wrote this message. Hope everyone is having a nice hiatus. |
Posted 03-12-2002 02:51
AM by dixiegirl_uk
quote: actually I already thought out that point, mabe alex was trying to tell ppl that the old alex had died and just the warped version remained, anyways the whole code thing was prolly a plot hole but fun to try and think u may have cracked it [ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: dixiegirl_uk ] |
Posted 03-12-2002 08:16
PM by shapeshifter
quote:dixiegirl_uk, I can readily see your point, but I am inclined to think it's also a good thing I'm not brain surgeon. Actually, I think the binary code was supposed to generate the "Leanna is not Leanna is not Leanna..." script/program. Too bad they're not rerunning the death of Alex sequence now--it would have fit nicely after the resurection of Max. |
Posted 03-13-2002 03:38
AM by dixiegirl_uk
quote:
I did post the code for leanna is not leanna translated to ASCII at the other board with it going down I can't get in to archive it to bring it here, anyways upshot was it was far longer than the code that was on the receipt. [ 03-14-2002: Message edited by: dixiegirl_uk ] [ 03-14-2002: Message edited by: dixiegirl_uk ] |
| Posted 03-15-2002 09:49
PM by shapeshifter
Do we think there is a similarity between the way Max morphed into Clayton and the way he empowered Liz when he saved her? And/or: if the new Max body didn't have powers, I suppose it does now that Liz "brought him back." from michelle23's site: IMAGE: members.optusnet.com.au/~cybernut/images/season3/s3ep13pics/panacea_076.jpg [ 03-15-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 03-19-2002 09:24
AM by The Real Momo
Hi, for those of you who don't know me, I'm Momo from the blu5 and WB (old boards) and I'm new here although I know shapeshifter from blu. B]shapeshifter[/B], I dragged this over from the Liz Mythology Thread since it was applicable here in case anyone who doesn't visit that thread can comment. I'm glad you brought in the screen cap of Max. Did you notice how the ring around Max is the same as the Medicine Wheel around Michael in The Balance?
quote:[ |
| Posted 03-20-2002 10:33
AM by Juniper
Hi guys, I have an excuse for being out of it lately. I decided to make an honest man out of Mr. Juniper and we're getting married May 25. It's been a busy few weeks trying to plan a wedding in a short span of time, since we only decided to throw this together at the end of February. I didn't abandon anyone, I'm just doing the bride-to-be thing. Everyone take care and I'll check in soon. Love, |
| Posted 03-20-2002 10:55
AM by cool powers
QUOTE by dixiegirl_uk -----------------------------------------------------so we all know the binary is 11100100100111011001 and old news if u put it into hexidecimal it comes out E49D9 so if u equate a letter in alpha order to each number IE 1 = A etc it comes out EDIDI
I DIED
I think the same, that Alex was trying to to tell them that the old Alex ahd died but I dont think he signed It like that on purpose. I dont think he knew he was doing it and cos his brain was so scrambled with the mind warp, hit just sort of happened ie he had no control over it. He must have done it by accident cos if he didnt know Tess was going to kill him (which he didnt) why would he write it? I think it was his subconcious mind (the part that knew he had been mindwarped)trying to tell the outside world (and himself) what was happening inside his head (it had been mindwarped and was slowly being distroyed) What u think dixie? |
| Posted 03-21-2002 05:12
PM by Luna G
Congratulations Juniper! It's always nice to have a side project during the hiatus. Don't let the details drive you crazy, it's all about the Momo, really great post. I'm intrigued by the Cadmium X connection. More later once I have a chance to digest it all. |
| Posted 03-24-2002 01:37
AM by Citrus and Vine
Wow! A lot of interesting information! Thanks! |