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Topic Subject: The Science Fiction of Roswell 3.3
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Posted 04-22-2002 06:50 PM by Luna G
Hi all. With just a bit over 24 hours to go, I thought I'd get the new thread up (the last one traveled to Antar Standard Time during the hiatus). At last we will learn whether New Max is human, alien, hybrid or none-of-the-above. There should be lots of great sci-fi action in the weeks to come. Here's the official intro: Welcome to the Science Fiction of Roswell. After each new episode, I (your humble thread mom) will post a recap with a few salient sci-fi discussion points, just to get the ball rolling. Due to the fact that I'm a West Coaster without, alas, a glowing rod of temporal power, the recap generally will appear around 11:00 Pacific Time. It's been a long hiatus, and it looks as if we're heading into the final cycle of Roswell episodes, so let's have fun with it while we can. Speculate away. And please, no spoilers. Thanks to shapeshifter for archiving our previous thread. You can find the link to this and other former sci-fi discussions at: http://ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/
[ 04-22-2002: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
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Posted 04-23-2002 03:55 PM by shapeshifter
Hey Luna! I am looking forward to reading your take on the Sci Fi of the new ep almost as much as I am seeing the ep. 2.25 hrs. & counting for me. On a slightly metaphysical bend, I have to agree that this story (mentioned by Berengaria on blu5) was very coincidental: Five planets line up in rare celestial array |
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Posted 04-23-2002 04:26 PM by Luna G
Ah yes. The five planets = the five stars in the V constellation. Reminds me of the theory that Antar was really a future or past Earth. Hey, while we're waiting, here's a theory. Maybe the V constellation isn't astronomical at all, but is a unique form of hallucination, projected upon the night sky by the tattoo in Max's brain. Sort of like the batman light. |
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Posted 04-23-2002 10:46 PM by Luna G
stupid double post [ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
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Posted 04-23-2002 11:06 PM by Lorrilei1960
I'd have to go back and listen to the dialogue during the cooking show to see if there was any significance in what ever they were cooking, but I think the whole scene, with Isabel sweeping up the mess in the kitchen, and Jesse flipping on the tv and trying to come to terms with killing a man (and the whole situation) might have been just that. (I know it's not sci-fi, but you asked). :grin: Anyway, I was bugged that Max had to draw the V symbol for Maria... for crying out loud, she's seen enough of the alien symbols and stuff that surely she'd seen that one, don't you think??? As far as why the symbol appeared on Michael's chest and not his head... no clue. But I do think his Rath like behavior indicates that it somehow taps into his alien side. He seemed to be returning to normal after it was removed. And, egad, what an icky wound where it was removed... kind of like a big ugly burn. Can't think of anything else right now... |
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Posted 04-24-2002 06:31 PM by shapeshifter
Luna, terrific sci fi job! I got the impression from a piece of dialogue (maybe Liz?) that Michael was programmed (i.e. genetically engineered) to take on the King Thing in the event of Max's death. This could be either determined by an external or internal source, but it would seem that there is a connection between Max & Michael. The injury to Michael's eyes seemed symbolic of his spiritual blindness as Programmed Alien King. About the risotto at the end: I GraceKelled that part a couple of times, and first the chef mentions enough for 3, then an amount for 2. I was thinking 3 aliens and 2 being Jessie & Is as a couple. Regardless, I thought that final scene was a fine piece of cinematography & direction--Emmy quality even, thought not likely to get noticed. But it would be really cool if cancelled Roswell won one. Also OT: This ep had a real post-Sept 11 feel: Max's speech about what's important, etc. Was I the only one who thought "Cadmium X much??" when Jessie said, 'if they find the body, they'll identify it,' & then Isabel melted it (fortunately without us seeing it-that's why I always liked Roswell & don't watch X-files)? |
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Posted 04-25-2002 06:39 PM by Vihmakass
...hi! Im glad to see that Sc-Fi topic is still alive! I think that cooking tvshow part was there bc of pan.Isabel melted Jesseis gun in pan and quikly put it out of sight, then J. goes living room and turns TV on and there was...pan! Little creepy moment - just for fun. |
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Posted 04-25-2002 07:04 PM by Orber123
About the book--how can he read it if it's in the alien scripture? They don't exactly have a translator with them...and I thought that they couldn't read it in the first place. But maybe Mikey's crossover to kingdom (ew - so wrong) triggered his alien memories, the memories of Vilandra and also the ability to read the book. I dunno, just a theory. |
Posted 04-25-2002 07:22 PM by Vihmakass
quote: Like we know Mikey can remember huge massive information (dialog betweem Maria ans Mikey in that motel about literature) amd i think remembering how decode D-book is very simpel to him, now when he knows how it must be done. |
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Posted 04-26-2002 08:30 PM by shapeshifter
Also, remember in season one when Michael "translated" the map? They asked him how he knew what it meant, and he said he "just did." I remember he also 'just knew' not to go with Tess in Departure. And he said something about figuring out the alien book during a Maria chalkboard intro, even though Alex translated it. I think this is one of his special powers. Vihmakass, I love your observation about the frying pan in the melted gun scene and the frying pan in the TV cooking show. I think it also symbolizes not being able to work things out at home like on TV: Jessie & Isabel's marriage is not like I Dream Of Genie or Bewitched, and the recipes on TV never turn out as good when you try to cook them at home. Edited to add: Max had the RS (Royal Seal) to begin with because he was the First String King. So then, thinking about TEOTW: If Tess had left, and the Roswell 3 had died, and Zan was already dead, Rath would have taken over the world. [ 04-27-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
Posted 04-29-2002 02:28 PM by Juniper
quote: Ooh - good question. Only suggestion I have is that K'var is of a different species or race and has different powers. So perhaps not. (Or he might have done it already.) On the same note, Zan or Rath or any of the Dupes could have "removed" the seal from Max's head, right?
quote: I assumed that it is necessary at all times to have a king. Max's powers -- if we take healing and shielding -- may be the hallmark of a good king. Solving problems and nurturing/protecting his subjects, if you will. So yes, these powers are part of the kingship. Sadly, Michael is not able to use these powers in the right way. Good catch about healing Isabel. Seems these powers came gradually, and only in this episode was he no longer able to physically ignore them.
quote: I think it's the Rath within. There's some programming at work here. Michael didn't ask to become the king, it just happened. Losing his will and his ability to control what was happening to him seemed just as frightening to Michael as anything else.
quote: Perhaps he's as boring as a bag of white rice? <grin> All in all, I thought this was a very good episode, perhaps because it did feel like two major plots going on. The Jesse/Isabel story was very well done and very natural with him coming to terms with their situation. (Not wanting to fix his car through alien means, eg.) And Fehr had some great opportunities to show the power of his talent without descending into a caricature. His combination of bravado and vulnerability (such as the scene in the car with Maria) makes him one of the more well developed characters on the show. Great intro as always. Cheers, |
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Posted 04-29-2002 04:51 PM by greenjetta
I was very impressed with Jesse/Adam in this episode, but I still don't understand what they were going for with the rice at the end. I'm sure there's some symbolism that we're not seeing. Can't wait to see the next episode, it looks like there will be a lot of sci-fi. |
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Posted 04-30-2002 09:42 AM by Luna G
Wow, has it been a week already? New Roswell tonight and I haven't even finished digesting the last one. Here's a question. If a person has been "programmed" to act in a certain way, is he morally responsible for the consequences of his actions? |
Posted 04-30-2002 10:34 AM by Juniper
quote: I think the easy answer is no. Though personally, if it was me, I still think my conscience would demand that I regret my actions. If you are too drunk to remember what you did, are you still obligated to apologize? I think most people would say yes. So 'unable to control own actions' and 'programmed to act' aren't the same? Most humans don't feel morally responsible for the consequences of their actions, period. Why else would people (not me, of course) still be eating meat? |
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Posted 04-30-2002 11:16 AM by kla
quoted by Lorrelei: Anyway, I was bugged that Max had to draw the V symbol for Maria... for crying out loud, she's seen enough of the alien symbols and stuff that surely she'd seen that one, don't you think??? __________________ We've been told by JK and crew that major topics (like FMax's visit and the truth behind TEOTW) have been discussed and resolved off screen, during the summer, etc. But apparently, little items like star patterns and alien symbols were too critical to the story to be discussed off screen... Right... how Liz faked sex to save the world is not nearly as important as that discussion Liz would have had with Maria about the star pattern she saw on River Dogs cave wall.
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Posted 04-30-2002 01:31 PM by Luna G
quote: Yes, but if you are too drunk to remember, you made a choice to get drunk in the first place. Whereas if the programming was done by someone else, then it is beyond your control.
quote: Because they hate cows?
quote: And thus the end of civilization as we know it. kla, that's got to be one of the great peeves of nearly every Roswell fan, past and present. It's why I love and hate TEOTW, not because of the content of the episode itself, but because the other shoe never dropped. I read an article once that contained the following story: Every night, a man would take off his shoes and drop them loudly on the floor of his apartment. The downstairs neighbor complained constantly about this, but the pattern continued. Until one night, when the man had a sudden thought in the middle undressing. He dropped the first shoe, then held the other in his hand for a few minutes. The neighbor downstairs banged on the ceiling and shouted, "Drop the other shoe already!" Sometimes unfulfilled anticipation is the worst offense. My four-year-old asked me to add the following: Be kind and loving to each other. Kids. [ 04-30-2002: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
Posted 04-30-2002 02:26 PM by Juniper
quote: Okay...say someone drugs you...or you stupidly give someone permission to drug you. Or to hypnotize you. (Remember, we're dealing in hypotheticals.)
quote: LMAO. But hating cows is certainly not a moral or righteous choice! Now, if you were to eat the cow that ate your mother out of revenge, perhaps a case could be made. However, it still wouldn't be moral to hate ALL cows, just the one that ate your mother. |
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Posted 04-30-2002 03:42 PM by AlexEvans
Question--If Kivar gets hold of Max, can he take the royal seal from him the way Max took it from Michael? I don't see why not. Very interesting. I liked that Michael wanted Isabel while he was in King mode. Since he's not a biological member of the Royal Family, he'd need to marry her. Jesse dealing with the situation? He didn't. He freaked out. He took Isabel to meet Burns without telling her what was going on, putting her in a lot of danger. Just compare it to Alex's acceptance. Or Liz, or Maria (who freaked out for a second but didn't do anything), or Kyle. Nice to see they are taking better care with this body than Pierce's, though.
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Posted 04-30-2002 08:55 PM by shapeshifter
quote: In Crash, Michael seems to take this approach. In fact, now that I think about it, I guess it motivated him to be a Dudley DoRight. |
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Posted 04-30-2002 11:11 PM by Luna G
The Science Fiction of Crash There was a lot of humor in this episode, which is great--seems like TV-land is all bad news, all the time lately. Kyle's joke at the beginning about Michael getting an "I apologize" tattoo was priceless. Same with Jeff Parker doubling the prices and hovering around the TV. As to our purpose for gathering tonight, here are some of the sci-fi elements this week. THE CRASH: Do all alien visitors to Roswell crash-land? Perhaps they need to get some better pilots. I'm thinking Earth needs a warning sign. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO LAND IN ROSWELL. On a more serious note, was that a deliberate kamikaze by Griffin? Was the alien ship destroyed? And what killed the power on Michael's motorcycle? THE COVERUP: Okay, there were a lot of people in that lab. Just how big is this government conspiracy? Are these guys aware that there's a defunct spaceship in a hangar at Edwards Air Force base? Do they know about the recent special unit activity in Roswell? Oh, and what was up with the lab? Biohazard/Non-biohazard? Wear a bio suit if it feels good? Granted that my last lab experience was quite a while ago, I thought their laboratory protocols seemed to be non-existent. THE DISGUISES: A great use for helium balloons. Also, Michael shapeshifting the mask was a great ploy. I was sitting there during the whole base scene saying, "Hey, they can't shapeshift!" and then it was all resolved for me. Very nice. I guess it's true what Liz and Maria were saying to Griffin's daughter. They've had experience with this sort of thing. THE GOOD GUYS: I loved when Michael (or was it Max) said, "We're the good guys," just like Agent Burns last week. It's a little quick to rehabilitate Michael after his insane power trip of the previous week, but let us not forget there are only two episodes remaining. But why, why, why would they be so foolhardy as to (a) invite a possible threat into their home (and the back room of the Crashdown, which is practically home), and (b)change the color of the van in front of virtual strangers (ex-military strangers)? CAUGHT ON TAPE: I don't know what's scarier--Diane Evans going all conspiratorial or Isabel going all Carrie with the personal tornado. This should be an interesting development. Think next week's episode will begin with an intervention? So, what did you all think of Crash? [ 04-30-2002: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
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Posted 05-01-2002 09:26 AM by plumeria
The Mask: I'm wondering how long Michael has had the ability to transfigure something like that, especially since -- wasn't the mask just on the *front* of his face, not over his entire head? I guess the personal tornado was just a way for Isabel to vent stress. Some of us eat chocolate, others poltergeist all our old possessions around the room and put them back perfectly with a flick of the wrist.... |
Posted 05-01-2002 01:01 PM by shapeshifter
quote:Luna, I am going to have to share that one with RATDG Okay, sci-fiers: here's your chance to use your techno-maginations to rescue a blooper: How come the camera didn't whirl around the room too? If it had, this would have been similar to Max & Michael twirling the bad guy so he couldn't see them sucking helium--Mom would have just figured the camera went haywire. |
Posted 05-01-2002 01:18 PM by plumeria
quote: Would you come post this at CHADs? Excellent point! |
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Posted 05-01-2002 03:02 PM by Luna G
shapeshifter, it seemed to me that only a dozen or so things were actually swirling around. The books the camera was resting on didn't move either. So, that leads me to conclude that only items that were in the "zone" around shoulder level got picked up. Hi plu! |
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Posted 05-01-2002 04:34 PM by Juniper
Isabel made wind - just like they've made snow, like Max made wind to hanglide by, etc. Small objects, papers, and things that were in the wind's path got picked up. <shrug> I too think it was ballsy to be changing the color of the van et al in front of the Griffins, but (a) these are military people who aren't trained to ask questions, and (b) after what they'd been through, they were glad just to be free. If Michael could alter the molecular structure of the mask to look convincingly like someone else, I'm sure he could alter the size and shape of it to cover the back of his (not bald) head. Eyes front, people. |
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Posted 05-01-2002 05:53 PM by The Real Momo
I was thinking about the Royal Seal and the transference of power and how it applies to the unique powers. From MITC, we know that the Seal is the identification of the King of Antar and for the most part, it appears to be the only seal. When Max dies, it then moves to Michael, but it appears on his chest, not his forehead. From Michael, we learn "I'm in charge"; "I'm King." But is he really? Why does the symbol go to Michael and not Max's son? The obvious reason is that Max's son is underage or maybe the baby isn't Max's son after all or maybe there is a flaw in the baby so the baby gets bypassed and it goes straight to Michael. But why Michael? My guess is that Michael has a legitimate claim to the throne and he's the next male in line to the throne. If that's the case, then perhaps it works like this. The Seal, an implant, carries the genetic blueprint of the Royal House of Antar. When the King dies, a program activates (like a binary code and very similar to how cells react in some instances) and seeks out the genetic pattern of the next rightful heir. One of two things happen. The seal goes to Max's son and sits in the forehead. Another signal goes to Michael and he, in effect, becomes acting king (regent) for the young king until he comes of age. Or ... the program rejects Max's son as heir and seeks the next available candidate: Michael. What bothers me here is position of the Seal -- why the chest, unless it's a temporary transference or each pod squad member has a Royal Seal that identifies their royal title so the location varies with the title. But since Max takes the seal back, I have to go with one seal for now. Transference of power could be my microwave signal if there is a transmitter and receiver or the Seal itself has a magnetic charge which changes with polarity. For example, if Max dies and the charge is positive, then the Seal looks for a negative charge in Michael and is literally pulled into Michael's body. Now Max begins to lose his "unique" powers. Why? Well, Max's truly unique power is the ability to heal. Now, historically, some kings came to rule by "divine right" and with that was the belief that the touch of the king could heal. So is Max's gift of healing linked to the divine right of kings and if so, perhaps that explains why Max loses that power and Michael inherits it. It's the birthright of the king. So perhaps the Seal has to do with kingship. Taking back the seal may have to do with regeneration. If we assume that Max's complete regeneration takes time to heal, then perhaps this is how that works. When a wound is initially inflicted, polarity in the nerves change, first immediately negative, then positive. After about two weeks, when regeneration occurs, the charge goes back to negative. Now we know that only two weeks have passed since Liz went to boarding school and came back. So let's try this on for size: Max looses the Seal because his positive readings are too high because full regeneration hasn't taken place. He gets it back because the polarity changes as regeneration fully kicks in. The negative ions/charge allows Max to pull the seal back into his body and return to its original place in the forehead. Is it possible? Does it make sense? [ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: The Real Momo ] |
Posted 05-02-2002 09:10 AM by Juniper
quote: Such sexism in the Antarian ways. Why oh why isn't Isabel the next in line for the throne? She is of age, and of royal blood. Pshaw. |
Posted 05-02-2002 10:40 AM by AlexEvans
quote: Because there are no good villains for more than 1-2 episodes, their problems have to be primarily self-inflicted to create a plot. Isabel isn't sufficiently messed up. Not that she isn't pretty messed up, after the Vilandra stuff, Grant dying, Alex dying (99% of her problem) and her brother blackmailing her... but she's mostly self-destructive. Max and Michael spread the pain, so the 'plot' works better with one of them as leader. In other words, there is no good reason it wasn't Isabel.
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Posted 05-02-2002 04:06 PM by Luna G
While I don't want to further the cause of sexism, here's a theory about the seal and male primogeniture (sp?). If it is a genetic marker of some kind, it could be linked to the Y chromosome, therefore Isabel would be out of the picture. What really bites from a sexism standpoint, is it seems as if it was engineered to be that way. Also, I've been thinking about the location of the seal on Michael. It is in a very similar location to where an army officer would wear insignia or a sheriff would wear his badge. This lends credence, in my opinion, to Momo's regent idea--it was a temporary military authority, which would also explain why Max was able to take the seal back. It was not linked in to Michael's DNA in the same way that it is in Max. [ 05-02-2002: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
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Posted 05-02-2002 04:39 PM by The Real Momo
Well, I assumed that the monarchy went through the male heir based on Max. Since Max appears to be the younger sibling and Max inherited the throne from his father, it appears the line goes from father to son. It may be sexist, but there it is. Then again maybe Isabel was deliberately passed over because of Vilandra's actions. [ 05-02-2002: Message edited by: The Real Momo ] |
Posted 05-03-2002 09:58 AM by Juniper
quote: |
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Posted 05-07-2002 11:00 PM by Luna G
The Science Fiction of Four Aliens and a Baby Hats off to William Sadler for directing a crammed-full episode of Roswell. Lots of great Roswell moments in this one. My favorite (it's so hard to choose) would have to be the vote. It brought back memories of other votes out at the reservoir, when it wasn't about who's king or who's not--but about the fact that they were all in this together. Humans. Aliens. Friends. A good scene for the next-to-last Roswell. Right. Let's talk sci-fi. HAVE SPACESHIP, WILL TRAVEL: I was trying to decide if the ship that the government had was actually the Granolith or another ship. I'm leaning toward the Granolith, since there was a big explosion at the end. Also, given the baby's age it appears that the FTL technology does not involve time-dilation. It must be a wormhole/instantaneous matter transmission kind of thing. BABY ZAN: When the spaceship opened, did he look like baby Kal-el or what? Now that we have a human baby, let's talk about how. Two hybrids make a full human? Max is 1/2 human and Tess is 1/2 human, so there's what, a 1 in 4 chance of a full human baby? I'm not sure the science of that really flies. I mean, Max and Tess were grown in incubation pods. Nasedo once told Michael that they were basically human. Michael looks just like his human donor. Anyone have an idea about this? SUPER-TESS: She killed fifteen people in bloody fashion with superspeed. Is that just a killer maternal instinct or a normal podster talent? And why did it take so long for her to remember that she could mindwarp her way out of a situation? LIZ'S POWERS: Yep, those are genuine "I'm P.O.'d so I'm going to blast you" alien powers. I'd say that Liz is about where Michael was in Season One--have anger, will detonate. Do you think that the emotions are what released the energy? HISTORICAL ISSUES: The baby was not a mindwarp. The sex was not a mindwarp. That the baby was dying was a mindwarp. This is your brain on mindwarp. Any questions? FOREHEAD TRICKS: What exactly did Max do to Zan at the end? Was he imprinting a memory? A memory of what? ISABEL'S TAPE: File this one under gone but not forgotten. This is why you should never, ever make clandestine video tapes of your loved ones. Who knows where they may end up? Maybe in an evidence bag. I'm sure I'm forgetting something. Oh, did anyone come up with a theory about how Tess and the baby could be linked before the end of the episode when it was revealed that they weren't? Red herrings. Why discuss them? Because they're there. I think it's time to change my signature. [ 05-07-2002: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
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Posted 05-08-2002 02:04 PM by Helios
Four Aliens and A Baby My reactions (I'll use Luna's headers): BABY ZAN: My guess is that the podsters are more human than we usually take them for -- going back to season one/two and Luna's quote of Nasedo, one could suppose that the only difference is the "turning on" of more human brain capacity. If that is true, I wish we had seen someone make mention of our shared intergalactic ancestry at some point in three years. LIZ'S POWERS: I fear that, in my mind, this will be the biggest loose end that doesn't get wrapped up before the end of the show. Can these powers be controlled? If not now, sometime in the future, with practice? Do they pose a threat to Liz's (and Kyle's, etc.) health? Is Liz now an alien-hybrid like the four, or is she an alien-hybrid-human-hybrid (alien-human-hybrid-squared)? What happens when Max and Liz decide to have kids? HISTORICAL ISSUES. Yes, all our hopes for having the last two seasons being one big mindwarp were dashed. But, speaking of mindwarping, we all must remember: do not attempt to mindwarp with babies or small children around. They tend to mess it up ... Why couldn't she mindwarp the kid's cries out? Or do occupants of the mindwarp "space" have to be absolutely still for it to work? |
Posted 05-08-2002 06:20 PM by shapeshifter
quote: Me too. I thought it looked like a sort of molten lava rock with a hollow like in a quartz crystal rock but without the quartz. quote:If the show were to continue, it would have been interesting to find Tess's donor--but not so much if baby Zan is never to be seen again. So if alien/human genetics is that simple, does that mean there's a chance that Max & Liz could have a 'full-blooded' alien? And would it be a shapeshifter? Or a Skinless Skin? Maybe if Max & Tess's baby had been a Skinless Skin, it really would have to live on Antar.
quote:I assumed it was of Max. But if Max's flashes are of Liz, then maybe that's who the baby will remember? And maybe Max had some sort of Liz imprint to begin with? quote:The baby crying when she exploded the military compound implied that there was some sort of link. But then my mom always knows when something's up & she lives on the other side of the world. |
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Posted 05-08-2002 06:37 PM by The Real Momo
The baby being human is in the realm of genetic possibilites -- about a 25% chance. So while it is less likely, it's not impossible for Tess and Max to have a human child. As far as Liz's powers go, I think we have the first example of some "control" being shown by Liz about directing her powers. Had Liz's given her one power burst, it might be considered accidental offense, but twice? The shot shows Liz directing her hand at Tess, so I'm assuming that Liz is developing kind of some intuitive control--even if she can't control "intensity", she certainly hit the intended target. As far as Tess and mindwarps, can we really believe anything that comes out of her mouth? In this episode alone, we have two proven lies and who knows what else? Her "that was no mindwarp" remark to Max may have been true OR it may have been intended to hurt Max, nothing more -- something to always make him question his feelings. On the other hand, we have Tess admitting to Liz that every time Max kissed or touched her, he was thinking of Liz. If Max willingly had sex with Tess, then why would have be dreaming of Liz if he "remembered" Tess, the Antarian wife he reportedly loved? Why ... unless Max thought he was making love to Liz. It would certianly explain the pained look on Max's face when he woke up to find Tess, not Liz beside him. But Tess says the sex was real and it was Max's choice. Can we, or will we ever reconcile this two statements? It's "all a mystery to me" and totally still mishandled. And in spite of Tess's statement to Max, there still is no clear, definite answer here except another one liner to deal with a critical issue that needed better addressing than this. [ 05-08-2002: Message edited by: The Real Momo ] |
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Posted 05-09-2002 02:14 PM by AlexEvans
Max may well have thought it was Liz, that makes sense. Still, they only did it once. Maybe that was enough for Tess to get pregnant, maybe not. Tess could have raped Alex while she was controlling him, with a plan either to steal the Royal Seal (which we now know is transferable) or to mindwarp Kivar into thinking it was there. That would up the chances of a fully human child. Or, of course, Tess could have been lying about the kid being fully human. Another question - so what if it's human? Liz and Kyle have powers through exposure. The baby has had far more exposure than that, what if he has powers when he's growing up?
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Posted 05-09-2002 04:43 PM by Juniper
quote: Didn't Max ask her if she "had it in her?' Remember she was injured in some regard. We always figured that mindwarping takes it out of you. I felt it was just her weakened state that rendered her unable to hold it. |
Posted 05-09-2002 05:04 PM by Juniper
quote: I just don't want to try to understand why Max wants to send the kid away. It makes no sense at all. Skinless skins -- ha. Nice intro, Luna. Your sarcasm is in fine form. So now the parents know the truth. Veeerrry interesting. Well guys, I swear to try and check in next week but my wedding is 16 days away and I am in full stress mode. |
Posted 05-09-2002 06:41 PM by Luna G
quote: Yep. That's why I figured. Tess was very tired (all that killing, you know). And the more people involved, the harder it is. So when the people with dogs arrived, that made it more difficult for her to maintain the mindwarp. Okay, here's a thought regarding the ship. I was wondering why it was covered in volcanic rock. If the ship was going fast enough, and was strong enough, it might not have stopped at the earth's surface, but actually burrowed into rock--so that when the government retrieved it, they had to excavate it. Remember how the grano-ship actually punched its way out of the sloped rock formation in Departure? Maybe the pod chamber was originally formed by an impact. What do you think? [ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
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Posted 05-11-2002 05:57 PM by shapeshifter
So, I guess this means she can't (couldn't) mind-warp dogs. And is there any possibility that she used the energy of the explosion to open a wormhole to Antar (and went home)? |
Posted 05-12-2002 06:14 PM by AlexEvans
quote: I think that's definitely a possibility, very good point. Yet again the Roswellians pass up a chance to re-obtain the Granolith and bring back Alex. Go to great lengths to help complete strangers, yes. Save soulmate/best friend/friend/guy who saved all their asses several times, no. This show makes less sense every episode.
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Posted 05-13-2002 11:57 AM by Juniper
quote: At some point, you're just going to have to let this go, my dear. <wink> |
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Posted 05-13-2002 07:05 PM by Luna G
Yes, but Mr. Evans has a point. Why wouldn't they try to reclaim the incredibly powerful granolith? Then again, for all we know, a perfectly unharmed granolith could be sitting in the middle of the burned-out base. Tess always was a bit of a fire-starter. [ 05-13-2002: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
Posted 05-13-2002 08:17 PM by shapeshifter
quote:Luna et al., you force me to drag this over here: quote: P.S.: Luna, your sig line is ***So*** poignant. [ 05-13-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
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Posted 05-14-2002 09:03 PM by shapeshifter
Okay, :::snif::: I guess Valenti Senior doesn't worry about the day when he will start crackling like aluminum foil in a toaster? |
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Posted 05-14-2002 10:58 PM by Luna G
The Science Fiction of Graduation It's the final episode of Roswell. What else is there to say? Well, perhaps a few things. LIZ'S POWERS: And for those who were waiting with bated breath, Liz's special power is an ability to see the future. Very handy, especially if one is about to be killed. What's interesting to me about it is this--once Liz and Max changed the future, that event never took place. Talk about making your own destiny. And you've got to love the return of the "flash research" method. A GIRL'S BEST FRIEND: Nice trick with the coal, Max. Did Superman really do that? MICHAEL'S RESCUE: What exactly happened with the lights when Michael drove into the graduation? I couldn't really tell. It seemed like they got out of there rather easily. Jesse brought the van to them, Valenti knew where to find them, the phrase "willing suspension of disbelief" comes to mind. But hey, it's the finale. Graduation is a time to say goodbye, to the characters we've come to know, and to each other. To all the sci-fi'ers past and present, I'll say goodbye here. I know there will still be ongoing discussion, but I don't want to miss my chance to say to all of you that it's been a great ride and I've loved the intelligent and thought-provoking conversations we've shared. As we move on, I'd like to think that we'll all keep a little piece of Roswell in our hearts.
So, what did you all think of Roswell's final episode? And a special bonus question this week. What was your favorite or least favorite sci-fi moment in Roswell? |
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Posted 05-14-2002 11:57 PM by QueenofSummer
didn't micheal somehow cellularly convert himself into that dead fbi agent in the white room? if so, why does he have to use the cheesy mask now? |
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Posted 05-15-2002 12:13 AM by AlexEvans
I've loved the discussions here. Even when the show got awful, at least this was fun. On to "Graduation." How the hell did the Special Unit plan to cover up killing four teenagers at their high school graduation? Isn't it a bit public? Is it just me, or was that a really dumb idea even for them? I agree with whoever said their escape was kinda lame. It was. Anyone remember Michael's nightmare in "Viva Las Vegas" ? That had a much cooler fight with evil government agents.
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Posted 05-15-2002 04:06 PM by shapeshifter
Luna, I too was puzzled about the white flash that saved Max. I guess it eminated from Michael? AE, I have to admit that it didn't occur to me on my own that the Special Unit's plot to nail them at the graduation was in poor taste, at best. But then I figured that these were thugs rather than marines or national guard. So, did Tess's death boost Liz's alien powers? |
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Posted 05-15-2002 05:24 PM by AlexEvans
Shapeshifter, that's the first possible explanation of Liz's suddenly increased powers that I've heard. Good theory. Hmm... I don't know just what the mechanics of a power transfer would be. Maybe Tess did something deliberately knowing she would die? Of course, on Roswell powers always have come out of nowhere.
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Posted 05-15-2002 10:01 PM by roswellcrash
how we can save Roswell and make true the season 4 |
Posted 05-16-2002 11:31 AM by Luna G
quote: Noble sacrifice not withstanding, I didn't see any evidence that Tess deliberately transferred power to Liz. She would have needed her power for the assault on the military base and resulting explosion. I've always had a private theory that their powers were tied into the granolith somehow. All that energy has to come from somewhere, and an external power source seems likely. Maybe when the granolith exploded, it released additional energy that sent Liz over the edge. If that was really the grano-ship that Tess arrived in, and if it was destroyed in the explosion, which I'm not sure about. Remember the fire-ring when Max died? Seems to me that if Tess were to die in the vicinity of an ammo dump (which they do have on military bases, yes?), you might get a big blast like we saw at the end of Four Aliens & a Baby. In which case, the granolith could have survived. I mean, even Isabel's tape survived. Unless the granolith were the source of the explosion, I'd think that a ship that can withstand atmospheric re-entry has a good chance to survive a fireball too. But even if it wasn't the granolith being destroyed that gave Liz a power boost, the fact is that Tess is no longer connected to that power, and more would be available to everyone else. In a way, that could explain what happened with Michael, when he temporarily got a power boost from Max's death. And here are my favorite and least favorite sci-fi moments from Roswell. [ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
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Posted 05-16-2002 02:55 PM by shwabogy
Back to the rice question from couple of weeks ago. I think the man sounds like that Keith guy from Survivor. The Survivor where they were in Australia, where the woman won....and the nice guy came in second. Keith was basically in third place...and no one liked him, basically the bad guy and back stabber. He was a professional cook and took over the cooking for the camp. The main food staple was rice....and the other survivors complained that the professional cook couldn't cook rice very well. He was very despised (by the audience and other players) and the followers of this Survivor...glad he didn't win. He went on to publish a book about cooking with rice. He also got his own television show about cooking on the cooking channel. What does it all mean???? Anyone's guess...but I'm almost certain it was his voice. |
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Posted 05-16-2002 04:24 PM by shapeshifter
shwabogy, Thanks for the link between the rice cooking scene and Survivor. quote:Hmmm...would this leave room for Tess having taken on someone else's body? quote:I am guessing it must have been in a special vault. quote:Good point. And I also like the idea that the Granolith could have been the source of the big bang. But I think it was supposed to be more like what we saw in WO in S2. quote:sound theory. But then also, with Liz's enhanced flashes, we could also suppose she has been changing systematically ever since the Pilot healing. quote:That will always be my favorite most hated sci fi thing. I'll have to rewatch all 3 seasons to pick my most favorite. It might turn out to be the Superman diamond trick. |
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Posted 05-16-2002 09:54 PM by Luna G
...favorite most hated...? Love the semantics, shapeshifter. |
Posted 05-17-2002 11:38 AM by shapeshifter
quote:glad you appreciated it. Slightly OT: am I the only one who has noticed that it seems every episode of Friends this season has had what could be construed as a "Roswellian Remark?" Last night--as seems fitting for the finales--there were possibly 3 such remarks. First, Chandler said that if there were 2 Janices, "that would be The End Of The World." Then he asked Janice whose 'essence you stole to create that baby.' The final Friends Roswell moment last night when a Ross was going to choose the baby's name and, after a pregnant pause, he said "Isabella." They changed it to Emma, but that just makes it more Roswellian since it wasn't necessary. |
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Posted 05-17-2002 02:50 PM by AlexEvans
For my over-all favorite, I'll have to think. Least favorite season 3: All the opportunities to get back the Granolith, which they passed up. Because Liz and Maria are murdering lying scum. (Nice character continuity from season 1... not.) favorite season 3: Isabel making all that stuff swirl around. Considering they had no special effects budget for the eps following and just re-aired that scene over and over, I'm glad it was cool. Least favorite over-all: introducing time travel in EOTW. Time travel cannot be adequately dealt with except when it is the primary SF element of the show. Roswell's treatment of time travel is the worst I've ever seen or read.
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Posted 05-20-2002 10:05 AM by Juniper
quote: I was a Days of Our Lives watcher for a long time in the 80s and if you recall, Jennifer Aniston's (John? I forget his name) real-life papa plays the villainous Victor Kiriakis. Anyway, Victor's virtuous and loving daughter on DOOL was Isabella. She died young and it was a crushing blow for the fans. I haven't seen Friends in ages, but I suspect that was the reference. |
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Posted 05-20-2002 11:11 AM by Juniper
One more sci-fi element we haven't mentioned: Kyle accepts it as a given that he will develop powers. No one seems interested in contesting this. As I've said before, Kyle evidencing a change shows more science and less fiction. We can finally state as a scientific fact that if an alien brings you back from the dead, you will have special powers. Plus, I like that it's a blow for the "Liz is special" camp. Edited to add: one of my favorite sci-fi moments (though I'd have to think harder about my 'most' and 'least') was when Tess whirled the statue back together. Not that the effect was all that special, it was just a great moment for plot and character development. [ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: Juniper ] |
Posted 05-21-2002 07:37 PM by shapeshifter
quote:I loved/hated that moment--ITA, it was well-done. It was back when it was possible to be totally unspoiled. It was also one of the rare moments when I was home alone (without any of my kids) and my mother called just before that moment. All I could say was, "Tess is an Alien!" |
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Posted 05-22-2002 08:34 AM by Luna G
What, you answered the phone during Roswell? Sacrilege. That was a great moment. Not just Tess fixing the statue, but the way the gang hovered around the monitor watching it. |
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Posted 05-22-2002 07:12 PM by AlexEvans
I completely agree, loved that scene. The statue coming back together was impressive, and I loved how the rest all worked as a team to find out. (Especially loved that Alex played a major role.)
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Posted 05-23-2002 09:10 PM by shapeshifter
quote:Yes, definitely! But since then, I always just let it ring. Another scifi moment that makes me laugh just to think about it is Michael parting the trees to make his golf shot with the stoned, drunk "news hound" watching. But now that I've had some time to think about it, my "favorite" sci fi moment might be when Max draws the heart in BD. [ 05-25-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
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Posted 05-30-2002 09:59 AM by Juniper
Taking just a quick glance at the theory archive on Shapeshifter's page, I will have to break with the jellyfish pack and say that my least favorite Sci-Fi moment was the whole Cadmium X red herring. To quote LSS in the critique: "But common sense dictates that anything placed in a containment chamber with thick walls (as evidenced when Max lifts the chamber hatch) is so placed for a reason. Even though Max leaves the chamber before the second stage of the cyclotron is activated, his presence during the first stage seemed to me incredulous. When you couple this with the exact dating of the bones via carbon dating (an impossibility of which even I am well aware) you produce a credibility issue surrounding two key SF elements of this episode. As I have said before, good Science Fiction does not have to be scientifically accurate. But it does have to be plausible. Moreover, if you are going to introduce an alien element in the storyline (Cadmium X), why chose a name (Cadmium) that is the name of a bona fide terrestrial element?" In addition to the repair of the statue, another favorite concept -- though not necessarily moment -- was the idea of space travel via the posession of a planetary being. A mental abduction, so to speak. Larek and the NY summit are the most shining examples of this channeling. As LSS said above, science fiction has to be plausible. I have always liked that in this show, the paranormal and the scientific combine in interesting ways (flashes, ESP, dreamwalking, etc.). It is entirely plausible that to save money and resources, the best way to communicate with another planet is through the mind. Space travel by posession was a perfect vehicle for this show because of the not-so-big-budget effects and quirky characters. Juniper |
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Posted 05-30-2002 10:32 AM by Helios
Congrats, Juniper! Married life is cool. And I agree, some of the best sci-fi moments for me were the abduction sequences, especially Brody/Larek, who, when possessed, performed some of the best (and suspenseful) lines of the series. Worst sci-fi moment for me was probably when the Granolith left. It (as a possibly religious object with unknown powers) had so much potential, and then they only used it as a spaceship. Oh well. Long live the hope of travelling in space and mind and meeting new people (I mean aliens)! A few cool sites I have found since watching Roswell: Mars Next and Yuri's Night, both examples of people who want to make commercial space travel/exploration a reality. Not to mention the Planetary Society. Thanks for the incredible dialogue on this thread -- it has made the experience of watching the show a much richer one. Hope to see you all discussing Firefly in the fall... |
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Posted 05-30-2002 12:26 PM by Karen65
There was hardly any sci-fi in season three! |
Posted 05-31-2002 10:51 AM by Juniper
quote: Sad but true. I think this is why on this SF board, we found ourselves in the silent minority during S2, because we were very into the Frakes era and not so much the moony-eyed stuff. Even the way the return of Kvar was handled in S3 was less about 'how did he get here, what is his political goal, where has he been all this time' and more about so-called true alien love. |
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Posted 06-01-2002 07:24 PM by AlexEvans
Yeah, Kivar's appearance was one of the few decent ideas in all of season 3... and the most interesting stuff they forgot about! How did he get there, what was this new thing he had? I still say it had to be the Granolith, and that Liz and Maria are murderers for not telling Isabel it was possible to bring Alex back.
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Posted 06-01-2002 09:20 PM by Larry Bradford
With the way the special unit was acting, supported by the military, it is possible, they would be willing to kill the only 4 aliens on earth. The military would bar the doors and the special unit would set fire to the auditorium. A few magnesium fire bombs would do the job, a nasty job of burning through flesh. Agent Topolsky warned of the cruelty by the special unit in "Crazy". The Air Force lost a lot of people at the base and wasn't going to take any more. Remember the general? He looked scary, an alien was dead meat in his eyes. |
Posted 06-03-2002 09:46 AM by Juniper
quote: I can see Liz, but how so Maria? It seems obvious that once the thing spun off into the strata, the Granolith was yet another piece of Roswell lore never to be revisited. Was it Kivar's transport? Tess' ship? All of the above? None of the above? All things to all people? The last thing for time travel devotees to latch onto as hope that events can be undone? |
Posted 06-04-2002 02:39 PM by shapeshifter
quote: I didn't notice this comment by AlexEvans until Juniper just brought it up. Anyway, I just rewatched the Kvar ep last week, and he tells Isabel they have a "new transport" which looks like a wormhole to me. But yeah, if we were writing it, Liz would have definitely wanted to try to tweak the granolith to get back to before Alex's death. |
Posted 06-04-2002 03:57 PM by Citrus and Vine
quote: Michael only changed his fingerprints, so they could get past the gate. Once inside, an agent assumed Michael was the new guy they had been expecting. Ed Harding/Nasedo changed his own appearance into that of an agent he killed. In Crash Michael converted the mask to change his appearance. He didn't change his own shape the way Nasedo had. |
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Posted 06-04-2002 11:48 PM by AlexEvans
Liz told Maria, Maria knew the whole thing, and despite supposedly being such a close friend to Alex never bothered mentioning it to Isabel. And apparently either Isabel didn't do that much dreamwalking, or Liz and Maria never dreamt about it either. I'm only half serious. But it does show that plot loopholes lead to bad characterization. (Of course even what was done on purpose doesn't make the season 3 Roswellians people I'd want to know.) Anyway, I'm far from a devotee of time travel... but anything would be better than what happened in the last year and a half on the show. Since "White Room" stuff went downhill. First season it was stuff basic to the plot mostly, and it made some sense, and it worked. Max healing Liz. Isabel dreamwalking Alex. And it's by no coincidence that the two things I thought of first are both powers integral to the Aliens themselves, and both related to the humans directly.
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Posted 06-09-2002 11:31 PM by Nemo
On rereading the previous pages about least favorite SF developments, I would say the one that I am least able to overlook is that business about Barnard's Star. While Max looked at it through the telescope, Tess said "see how it's always wobbling," and explained that the same star was visible from Antar. The implication was that one could tell it was the same star because of wobble, i.e. that this star wobbles more than other stars; that the wobble could be seen from Antar as well as here, and that Max could discern the wobble within a few seconds' viewing (since he raised no objection). Now, for perspective (as posted on the very first SF thread), if we scale the universe so that our galaxy is like a city with a radius of 10 miles, say around Los Angeles, then: In this picture, Barnard's star is about 6 feet away from us. (It's the nearest single star, other than our sun. The only closer system, Alpha Centauri, at 4 feet, is a triple star system.) So it's millions of times closer to us than to Antar. It's rather faint, and would not stand out in the crowd if viewed from another galaxy. It was once thought to wobble slightly because of a hypothetical large planet orbiting around it, but wobble due to such a cause would not be unique to Barnard's star but shared by any star of similar size with similar planets. The uniqueness of Barnard's star as a subject in the search for wobble was mainly that, being the nearest, it was the easiest test case to see from here. (Also it's smaller and lighter than average, easier for a large planet to influence.) Even so, wobble due to a planet's orbiting would not be discerned in a few seconds by eye; it was barely detectable with instruments over many years (and is now in doubt because better instruments, such as the Hubble Space Telescope, detect no wobble). So you can see why this one is hard for me to rationalize. Still, I have to give the storytellers partial credit: there really is a Barnard's Star, which at least formerly was thought to have a detectable wobble (even if only barely, and only because it was so nearby). There seemed to be considerable excitement about it when I was in school. Also, I don't have a problem with the Roswell Observatory's being empty on a clear night. Given that the telescopes are classic refractors set up with visual eyepieces instead of recording instruments, the place appears more suited to public shows than to research. (The Griffith Observatory, where the episode in question was filmed, is run by a city parks department, mainly for public viewing, and visiting hours do not last all night.) It may be surprising that a small town like Roswell has such a splendid public observatory, but not that the place is sometimes deserted late at night. [ 06-10-2002: Message edited by: Nemo ] |
Posted 06-11-2002 03:30 PM by shapeshifter
quote:Nemo, putting on my Roswellian Science Apologist's hat Tess doesn't actually say the Barnard's star wobbles when viewed from Antar. Perhaps Barnard's star is close enough to Antar to be a very large, bright, well-known star in their sky (equivalent to the Big Dipper constellation in our Northern Hemishpere), and any Antarian on Earth would have researched the star, and thus its wobble. She & Max had been working on "recovered memories" at that point, so it's not totally inplausible. As for being able to see its wobble--I guess that would imply that the hybrids have super sight--or maybe it's a power that they can develop with practice. But yes, I can appreciate your moment of "huh?" when she said that about the star. Maybe we should just assume she was mindwarping him to see the wobble? |
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Posted 06-14-2002 08:17 AM by Nemo
Here's a news item that relates to recent discussion. Newfound planetary system around nearby star, detected by a wobble This one's about 7 times as far away from us as Barnard's Star, but the idea is similar. [ 06-15-2002: Message edited by: Nemo ] |
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Posted 06-15-2002 09:04 AM by Lyon
Thanks for the link and information |
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Posted 06-15-2002 09:13 AM by Larry Bradford
NEMO...have you read any of the Roswell High books? There is a comparison thread you might like. Anyone who has read the books should stop by, we analyze everything. |
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Posted 06-15-2002 05:04 PM by Nemo
Lyon, you're welcome. Larry B., not yet. (I wanted to watch the show spoiler-free, and though the show was said not to follow the books entirely, I was concerned that it might use at least some of the same developments; and I didn't want to know about them beforehand. Now that the show is ended, maybe I'll try some of the books.) Thanks for the tip about the discussion thread. |
Posted 06-16-2002 06:19 PM by Nemo
quote: Like Juniper, I disliked something other than "the jellyfish." And I agree with LSS and others who pointed out the implausibility of the walk-in cyclotron and the overprecise radiocarbon dating. But for me, Cadmium-X was not too much of a difficulty. And again, amid the undeniable howlers in the episode in question, there are a few science connections, perhaps little noticed so far, for which I think the writers deserve at least partial credit. 1. There really is a field of Accelerator Mass Spectroscopy (AMS) which measures isotope ratios with exceptional sensitivity, allowing remarkable improvement in radiocarbon dating. (Though to peg something to a year is still a stretch.) [The storytellers have substituted a cyclotron, a circular machine, instead of the usual linear accelerators used for AMS. They have also made the inside much larger than normal. (A typical beam line might be only a few inches in diameter -- making it larger than necessary would make the magnets much more costly. But movie sets that are absurdly larger than life are seen also in movies about airplanes and submarines.) They have also put the substance under test in the middle of the machine instead of at the beginning or end of the beam path, in accordance with the usual sci-fi movie images of "probing" by rays. Finally, they have ignored the vacuum issues pointed out by many critics. Radiation safety issues have also been raised, but those seem relatively minor to me compared with the vacuum ones. If Max had somehow been exposed to a real beam of the sort used in AMS, I think it might have caused local burns but it wouldn't have knocked him down -- it has energy but not much momentum, since the particles are so light.] 2. There is precedent for giving a name [element]-X to an observed mysterious substance. Examples are uranium-X, thorium-X, actinium-X. (Though that was a long time ago, before the chart of the nuclides got filled in. In the story, the mystery about cadmium -X is not what it consists of but how it got to where it was found, since it is said not to occur naturally on Earth, especially not in human bodies. The scientists attempting to measure its concentration seemed to know what isotope of cadmium they were looking for, so there appears to be no mystery about that.) There are over 30 known isotopes of cadmium, many of them short-lived enough that their natural terrestrial abundance is essentially zero. It does not bother me if the storytellers pick one of these (or imagine a fictional one being discovered, having a higher or lower neutron number than those already known) as cadmium-X, without being specific about its isotope number. There are even a few of the "original 92" elements that do not occur naturally on Earth (except in minute traces near radioactive ore deposits): technetium (element 43) and promethium (element 61), all of whose isotopes are short-lived. Why didn't the storytellers use one of these unexpected elements, instead of an unexpected isotope of a familiar element? I suppose, in order to bring the particle accelerator (which measures isotope ratios and can do radioelement dating) into the story. Why cadmium? Maybe because it's familiar as a toxic heavy metal, also connected with the nuclear power industry (used in reactor control rods), so on both counts it will sound scary. [ 06-16-2002: Message edited by: Nemo ] |
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Posted 06-16-2002 08:39 PM by Nemo
Here's a fun website: Xeno's Arrow: 10 Laws of Bad Science Fiction (Apparently the flaws we sometimes find on Roswell are widely found, often more egregiously elsewhere.) Rule 3 seems to underlie the others: effects must be dramatic at any cost to realism. Rule 8 is often seen: nothing is too bizarre to blame on radiation. Roswell episode S&B is following well-established movie tradition in having scientists accept the stray-radiation explanation for the twisted skeletal remains. (Even a poster on another thread who was critical of some other science distortions in the story nevertheless vouched for this one as authentic. Funny. Some critics also repeated the idea that exposure to high vacuum would cause a person to explode, which is another misconception. So it's not just the writers who can be mistaken.) (Maybe it's the term "high vacuum" that makes people think the resulting forces must also be high, but a moment's thought reveals that the largest pressure differential that can result, even if the ambient pressure drops all the way to zero, is just whatever pressure you started with, i.e. typically about one atmosphere.) [ 06-17-2002: Message edited by: Nemo ] |
Posted 06-16-2002 10:36 PM by hart
quote: Nemo! That is SO Funny! I love the site! I'm partial to #7. "Alien races will virtually mirror humankind, in appearance and culture, with only one or two notable exceptions to set them apart, i.e.: being green, having antennae, not having a sense of humour, eating humans, etc. Or else they will resemble bugs, lizards, cats, or other well-known Earth animals (this would be the "Rubbersuit Revision" to this law.) Generally speaking, all aliens look like they come from Earth, but just drive faster cars than we do. (See Law #3) Conversely, all Earth citizens are presumed to be Americans, unless it is a Japanese film." Thanks also for all the information on AMS technology at Livermore. It's so amazing! I had no idea they could do that! |
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Posted 06-17-2002 07:11 AM by Nemo
hart, you're welcome. Please note there are other places also doing AMS; now that you have the keywords, you can do a websearch and find them, if you like. For example, this one at Georgia has more pictures showing the sizes of things. [ 06-17-2002: Message edited by: Nemo ] |
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Posted 06-18-2002 07:55 PM by hart
Thanks Nemo! I really appreciate it! |
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Posted 06-21-2002 05:12 AM by quickdraw
I was on the link of discussing the books vs. the Tv show and Shapeshifter had mentioned about this thread of the discussion of the sci-fi in the show. This is so very interesting and so many great ideas and alot of science that I was not aware of. I just wanted to comment, the link above to Georgia about the AMS was fantastic... The photos are so great. thanks fo rthe look |
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Posted 06-21-2002 07:00 AM by Nemo
hart, quickdraw, thanks for the encouragement. shapeshifter also has an archive, so you can view earlier threads if you like. |
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Posted 06-21-2002 03:46 PM by AlexEvans
While we're on S&K - how about the political science? Whitaker was supposedly appointed as Representative. Only Senators can be appointed! I also had problems with Cadmium X, Max entering the Cyclotron, and the precise carbon dating. None were believable to me. My biggest problem... call this social science, or psychology or something... was Alex and Isabel. At the end of "Destiny" they were still together. So when did they break up? If it was in S&K it was remarkably subdued. The only other possibility is offscreen during the summer. A 'wonderful' example of bad SF coexisting with a complete lack of knowledge about ANYTHING, most especially characterization.
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Posted 06-21-2002 05:10 PM by shapeshifter
I rewatched Leaving Normal last night and found myself wondering about the difference between using molecular manipulation to heal a fatal gunshot wound vs to heal the damage caused by a stroke. I didn't see how the latter would require Divine intervention (Max says he can't heal Grandma Claudia because he's "not God") any more or less than the first. |
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Posted 06-21-2002 07:56 PM by Jessay
I thought the differences between being able to heal Kyle and Liz and not being able to heal Alex or Grandma Claudia had to do with time and the extent of damage. By the time Max tried to heal Alex, Alex had been dead a quantity of time. Additionally, his wounds seem to have been extensive. Grandma Claudia seemed to have suffered a massive stroke. It seemed to have happened a period of time before Max saw her. She was no longer young, and healing is difficult when people age, and so many things go wrong with multiple systems in their bodies. When Max worked to heal the very aged Clayton, he wound up destroying his own body. |
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Posted 06-21-2002 09:43 PM by quickdraw
With Max's ability to heal, we were told that Max can move around molecules and change damages done by a bullet or when Cancer is in the body. It would explain that with a stroke the blockages can occur like a chain reaction and to extend his ability chasing the blockages one after another would drain his life force such like when his body was destroyed healing Clayton. Each time Max used his powers to heal he was weakened and needed to rest and recharge his energy. In the process of his recharge time,does he just sleep, some energy given to him as a program of his DNA or is there another reason. If this has been asked before I will be glad to have any link to the information (I am writing a story and I was courious about his ability) |
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Posted 06-22-2002 05:49 AM by shapeshifter
Thanks for the explanations, it seems so obvious to me now. But Jessay, after reading your thoughtful, serious post, I had this vision of Max healing Grandma Claudia and switching bodies with her like he did with Clayton Wheeler--I wasn't sure weather to laugh or be grossed out by my irreverant imagination. |
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Posted 06-23-2002 07:12 PM by AlexEvans
Max should have been able to heal Alex, it was still trauma injuries, like the bullet. Nothing at all like Claudia or that old guy. But then nothing about Alex's death made sense. I felt really cheated that they made Mindwarping into such a deus ex machina. It was for the bad guys, but still. When it was the ability to make people see things, it was fun. When it was the ability to control people, make them do anything, it made no sense. And why was everyone, including Maria, perfectly fine with Tess screwing up Amy's memories? *sigh* The more I think about Season 2, the more I hate the characters. Not as much as I hate them in season 3, but still.
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Posted 06-23-2002 07:59 PM by Larry Bradford
Some of the people on this thread should have been added to the Roswell staff on the scientific scene. No cyclatron in the world is the size of the one Max crawled into and wings on airplanes are vitually useless in space. But we must remember this series was strictly for entertainment right? Not exactly, the Roswell fan seems to be passionate well past dictionary terms so that leaves us with the job of cleaning up the poor jobs the writers have done and, by and large we have succeeded beyond our wildest dreams. The series is cancelled and we are here pounding the keyboards, donating our hard earned wealth to keep these boards up and running. I think we all would drag the actors and actresses off the beaches, out of the night clubs and put them on the set and give us a performance for the classics. Not only that, we would write the episodes ourselves. Really though a scientist of some stature should have been consultated. I'll bet there are a few out there that would have done it for nothing. My hats off to the peolple on this thread who attempt to make sense of the SCIFI. |
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Posted 06-23-2002 08:57 PM by shapeshifter
AlexEvans, I think the reason Max couldn't heal Alex was because he had been dead for awhile. Remember Max talking about how cold the body was? Larry, I think you would also have to have "a few [actors] out there that would have done it for nothing," or at least for what they were paid. |