1) J--E--L--L--O spells....H-2-O?????

Okay you science types out there...what kind of planet do we have if we have "heavy water" thicker ... "not quite liquid but not quite solid"??? Are we to think of water in some special state due to the planet itself? Or are we to think of another element completely...something that is simply "water-like"?

2) MOONS OVER MAX'S HOME PLANET. Orange moons. Three of them. No clouds. Again--all you astronomers out there--any implications to this?

3) A WALK DOWN MEMORY LANE--HAZARDOUS TO DREAMERS' HEALTH? Ever since we were introduced to our aliens' "So Called Previous Lives" I've dreaded this moment. And we've talked about it on the SF threads at length. What happens if Max starts to remember...Tess?

[BTW--Now that the time is upon us, I have to say that Katims handled it with taste. It hurt, of course, but one couldn't help but applaud Liz at the end. It was if she had awakened from a year long nightmare. She's feeling again and I think that means good things for Liz and Max in spite of what we saw tonight.]

Okay--what did you think of the "memory retrieval" we saw tonight?

And did you pick up the reference to "energy" images rather than bodily ones? Remember the beings we say in the Summer of '47? BTW--How should we think of energy beings "swimming"?

Well folk we are back in business with six new eppys before the drought that is summer.

What did you think of tonight's SF?

LSS

P.S. And I'm not even mentioning the previews for next week's session-brrr-just thinking of them puts me into sensory overload!

What is the source of those memories? Max's alien cells? Some kind of mental link with the home planet?

Of course, those leary of Tess will quickly call "mindwarp" ... but strangely enough, I don't think so. Tess is looking more and more "human" and worthy of our sympathy. I just don't see her at this point into heavy manipulation. But I could always be wrong!

Yes, I think Katims handled the M/T thing very well, very believably. Even though it hurts like h*ll.

Ok, now on to On-Topic.

Jello water -- what the heck was that all about? Isn't water ... water, no matter where you go? I mean, they're always talking about trying to find water on Mars or the Moon, and I assume that if they ever did, it would behave exactly the same as water on earth -- frozen, probably, but I'm sure if you took samples and warmed them up, it would still be water. So then I can only hypothesize that Antar water is not what we would call water, but a different molecule entirely. Is it just for bathing? Or do they drink the modified water as well?

Three Orange Moons -- don't see any real significance in this. My guess is the orange either has to do with the atmosphere on Antar, or the mineral components (or any atmospheres) on the moons.

Remembering the podsters energy, not their forms -- I didn't think that this might be in reference to the So47 "beings of light" although it could well be. I was just thinking that Max is remembering their souls, their energy, and that, since their forms looked different previously, that's why he's not seeing that so clearly. The energy is familiar, the forms are not. Yet. But since Tess said that things get less blurry later, I'm wondering if he'll start to really "see" his fellow podsters in a more tangible form later on.

What I'm wondering is ... for the memory retrieval - was Tess remembering along with Max? Or did she already remember these things, and she was just helping him remember, too? She said that most of her memories were also still pretty blurry, so as they were talking about swimming in jello or (sigh) kissing, was she just remembering it for the first time then, too? I couldn't tell.

Ok, well, I'm going to sniffle a bit more and then go to bed.

Dreams

The jello water seems strange. All I can think of that the "water" of Antar is not the same as the "water" on Earth. Two possiblities come to mind.

1) Tess describes physical properties to the water, indicating a different atomic weights than just H20. Thus water on Antar could be our mercury. It doesn't sound like water, it probably isn't.

2) Possibly in their previous lives Max and Tess's biology was such that water seemed more solid. I am thinking of the water bugs that can walk on water because the surface is static enough and they are light enough to do it.

and a third consideration -

They describe themselves floating on this whatever substance. That would mean whatever biology they had, their bodies were boyant. It could suggest a circulitory system & respiration systems. If they had gills, they probably won't think of this experience as floating.

As far as the Orange Moons, I could see it. Isn't Jupiter Orange.

Could they have been refering to the other 4 planets instead? Perhaps the fourth one being eclipsed. Makes you wonder just how many natural satellites one system could have.

Max/Tess
- memory retrival I don't buy it. and a huge clue is when max says "I remember everyone but for some reason Tess is the clearest" Just like last year when for some reason Max couldn't stop thinking about Tess. Exactly how is Tess helping max rember. There are sitting on his bed with candles burning everywhere and he is to concentrate on remembering their past. we have to ask ourselves if we trust Tess enough to truly believe that she would not manipulate Max again

Liz/Sean
- Okay so what is the deal with Sean. He has got to be more than Maria's Loser cousin. Is he Kivar is he Tic Tac. and what was with the "there's something about you liz, something special" (Mythologist could this have been a bigger clue) And Why is he always around.

Kinda interested to see how they would portray the home planet.

Circe

I have no opinion on the sci-fi of Heart of Mine. I had a hard enough time watching the episode as it was (though I knew all of the spoilers). I can't believe that anything Tess said was factual or that anything that was written into this episode has a basis for a future storyline. What I'm really wondering is... how can any of you still take this seriously?

To me, the sci-fi means far less once the characters are dead, and, if they hadn't been butchered already, tonight was the night for them to die unpleasant deaths. I talked these ideas to death a year ago when the first change came around, but I never imagined that it would grow to be this bad. I know this post is off topic, and I don't know why I'm even posting here, but I just needed to say something in a place where I know my response will be at least read and taken seriously.

ya i know. i would do my taxes but i'm still underage.. the deadline is over! screw the taxes! post!

hey, I'm usually just lurking out here, but since you mention the images...is anyone else wondering why Max didn't have flashes or visions when he and Tess were kissing?

And what is up with the jello water, it sounds so sitcky.

[/B][/QUOTE]

I have to agree that the characters have all been decimated. They are hardly even watchable anymore, and last night was the worst.

The jello water seems strange. All I can think of that the "water" of Antar is not the same as the "water" on Earth. Two possiblities come to mind.

1) Tess describes physical properties to the water, indicating a different atomic weights than just H20. Thus water on Antar could be our mercury. It doesn't sound like water, it probably isn't.

2) Possibly in their previous lives Max and Tess's biology was such that water seemed more solid. I am thinking of the water bugs that can walk on water because the surface is static enough and they are light enough to do it.

and a third consideration -

They describe themselves floating on this whatever substance. That would mean whatever biology they had, their bodies were boyant. It could suggest a circulitory system & respiration systems. If they had gills, they probably won't think of this experience as floating.
[/B]

Qfanny, you and Plumeria both came up with Antar's "water" having a different molecular structure. But your comments made me think of the Dead Sea. If you're bouyant in the medium, do you perceive that it's thicker? I've never swum in the dead sea, so I don't know. Maybe it was more like a mud bath. You get enough particles in suspension, and your "water" is definitely thicker.

If they are actually energy beings, and their swimming water is some kind of salt solution, it might almost be an exfoliating exercise -- a way to strip ions from their body surfaces. A purification/cleansing ritual.

Of course in the back of my mind, I can't help thinking of Ron Moore, and the "changeling collective" pond from ST-DS9. That was visually like liquid "jello."

SF

[QUOTE][B]I have to agree that the characters have all been decimated. They are hardly even watchable anymore, and last night was the worst.

Hi Truly Madly (and Kate who is quoted)!

Sorry you feel that way. Let me simply say that, while I don't agree with how everything has been handled in season two I did think that last night was interesting (relationally) on a number of points.

1) MICHAEL AND MARIA: What a sweet moment at the Prom. It seemed like business as usual for these two--fraught with misunderstanding and miscommunication of course, but hey--this is M/M remember?

2) ALEX AND IZZY: Whoa, I really liked the new and improved Alex...too bad! (Can't say any more...though you might have justifiable grounds for being miffed where Alex is concerned).

3) MAX AND LIZ: Although I am a dreamer (through and through) simply ignoring M/T's past connection makes no literary or dramatic sense.

Did you catch all the references to kisses (real and not) and Liz's defense of Max to Sean--that Max had honor? As much as we hate to admit it, that "honor" makes Max unable to turn away from Tess at this point.

Rather than seeing Max and Liz as "dead" I think that last night we saw them come alive.
Throughout season two Max has done justice to neither Liz or Tess. And Liz--for the noblest of reasons--has been crucified on the cross of selflessness. (How many of you would arrange to push the love of your life and your future husband into the arms of another woman?)

Tonight we heard Liz's pain...and it is about time! For Liz to be more than a flat two dimensional character we need to hear how this last year has affected her.

Tonight we saw Max exploring his previous relationship with Tess. And that too helps us to see him in a different light. Now--perhaps the writers will pull a manipulative Tess out of their hats and whisk the whole issue away as a "mindwarp." But I sincerely hope not. In Romance true love is often tested in the crucible of conflict.

I have no doubt in my mind that Max and Liz will come through this more ALIVE than we've ever seen them. The issue of Tess has to be resolved in order to do this...and that is what we are now seeing.

It will get worse than tonight...but only so that we can finally deal with what Tess represents--a formidible challenge to the M/L relationship...one that makes the "problem" of alien/human relationships look like a bunny hill.

Trust me in this....to borrow a cliche--the darkest night often comes before the dawn.

And Kate--e-mail me off the board--let's talk!

LSS

PS...SF wise...all of this is to say that I think we have to look a bit deeper than simply making Tess an arch villian (as convienent and satisfying as that might be...sigh...I hate when fairness dictates defending Tess).

PLUMERIA: I think the whole issue of clear vs. blurry memories functions as a literary device to delay the full recovery process. By gradual recovery we can walk through the resulting confusion with the characters (yep--they just couldn't resist one more chance to make us cry...sometimes I wonder if they really like us that much at all (jsut kidding).

On the other hand, SF wise, I keep coming back to the underlying isue of WHY the should be remembering anything at ALL. Cloning is not the same thing as a brain transplant.

QFANNY: Interesting speculation about the "moons" -- I wonder if the number of satellites has anything to do with the size of the planet? It has been a long time since I've taken Astronomy 101...any experts out there?

LSS

'heavy water'. Since it doesn't sound like deuterium-based H20 from Tess' description, it might well be some other liquid that she just thinks of as water.

Orange moons could signify the presence of iron oxides in their crust, like on Mars in our solar system, though not as many.

No clouds doesn't have to mean a low atmosphere, it could just be that there isn't any substance held in suspension in the air that can precipitate out. Water makes up most clouds on earth, dust or smoke the rest. Maybe heavy water can't escape into the atmosphere.

OR...

It could well be that these 'memories' are all a crock. I've had a little experience with NLP-based hypnosis, and one thing it's made clear to me is that the human brain is quite suggestible and resourceful - capable of coming up with the most incredible things if it's been hinted that it should have memories of a certain type available to it.

So, let's look at this. The royal four have been reincarnated from human bodies, from the 'essence' of princes and princesses killed on their home world. But what is an essence? As far as we know, it's a pure energy. Does energy carry memories with it? As far as we know, memories are contained within neural interconnections. It's a bit of a leap to assume that exactly the same principle works for their original species, but let's take it for an assumption that memory is a function of the body, not of the essence, and see what we get.

The memories of the Royal four would remain with their bodies. What happened to those bodies?? Nicholas hinted in in "Wipeout" that the royal four originally met their death through fire - burned at the stake, or some such. If so, their brains would be reduced to cinders (and Mom may well have had very little time to rescue their essences.)

Even if the brains were mostly intact, some kind of decomposition may have set in quickly. And if the memories were retrieved, what next? Max & co were hybridized as single cells. There's no way that a single-cell gamete can carry memories. It simply has no facilities for them. (Which is a bad sign for those postulating genetic racial memories.)

On the other hand, after being hybridized, they were put in those pods. Which might have had as one of their properties implanting memories as the hybrids grew in suspended animation. But then why would the memories be so heavily supressed?

So, let's see what follows if the gang has no genuine memories of their homeworld. Tess as a young child was obviously filled by Nasedo with tales of the home world. She may well have demanded to remember this for herself, since Nasedo said she had been there, and he could well have resorted to giving her false memories by a form of hypnosis, either deliberately or accidentally. Tess, in all sincerity (or a lack of sincerity for that matter,) may well be passing on her false memories to Max and being suggestively cued herself by any details that are made up spontaneously in Max's mind, like 'the kiss.'

So... I don't necessarily put too much stock in all of this 'memories' stuff. We'll have to see where it goes.

LSS

Hi LSS

You are so right! If we take the hybrid chronicles at face value, in terms of their human morphology, they are really human clones (GrandPa DuPree and Michael are identical). So the gandarium allowed transfection of their cloned human genome with alien DNA, but somewhere in the engineering, no external morphological characterisitics were affected. That took some pretty major bio-engineering.

I still think they should have stuck to essence instead of making the move over to alien DNA. Essence seemed to have conotations of more than just their genetic blueprint. I could swallow that their essences retained past life memories.

But bioengineering could explain it all away, if externally they retain their human clone appearance, maybe their brain is entirely their alien selves. If that's the case, then they have as much credibility doing past life regressions as people who actually believe in it.

This looks like a prime candidate to be swept under the carpet, so I doubt we'll ever know.

SF

Hi ChrisKO,

Just saw your post. I am a sceptic like yourself, but people who do believe in reincarnation and who try to do past life regressions appear to run into no problems with the fact that they started their present life as a zygote. According to them they can still remember their past lifes. I don't know that they're a very credible part of the population, but their existence does lend some credibility to the story line.

I do tend to agree with you and LSS, that if Tess is creating false memories in Max, she is not doing it intentionally. I think she really does believe them.

SF

Hehe. From what little I've seen of past life regression (which isn't much,) I'd tend to put that in the same category as 'hypnosis inspired.' I've heard that most people who go through regression find evidence for a 'seminal link' with someone they have or had a relationship with in their current lifetime - now isn't that convenient hehe.

About the memory retrieval, I'm wondering if it is related less to biology than to the podster's flashing ability.

Normally, a flash comes to them spontaneously, but they don't really know how they do it. If these are real memories, which I will give the benefit of the doubt to for the time being, then perhaps Tess is teaching Max to "flash" intentionally. It could be much more difficult to use this power if you have to sit down and figure out how to do it.

In the VLV thread, we discussed Max's flash of he and Liz, and the possibility that he was getting it from another timeline, or a possible future. Assuming that Max does have King Zan's essence or soul, would he have a connection through time to the events of King Zan's life?

And, on a side note, the whole "first kiss" thing struck me as odd. I mean, would kissing have the same social and cultural significance on another planet, with aliens who have a different biology than us? Why not, “I remember our first glowing hickey” or “I remember when our tentacles got tangled together” or how about, “I remember when we shared a mating pod for 3 months”? Do the aliens have lips?

LSS: I'm with you on the sensory overload from the preview of upcoming episodes. Can't wait.

Ah hah!!! Mindwarping

The whole energy thing, the only thing I can come up with is like when you're dreaming, and you know it was that person, but they didn't really have a face or body, just an energy.

That's all I have to say, I'm still realing from the eppy,

uh-oh,

gotta run now...

About the memory retrieval, I'm wondering if it is related less to biology than to the podster's flashing ability.

Normally, a flash comes to them spontaneously, but they don't really know how they do it. If these are real memories, which I will give the benefit of the doubt to for the time being, then perhaps Tess is teaching Max to "flash" intentionally. It could be much more difficult to use this power if you have to sit down and figure out how to do it.

In the VLV thread, we discussed Max's flash of he and Liz, and the possibility that he was getting it from another timeline, or a possible future. Assuming that Max does have King Zan's essence or soul, would he have a connection through time to the events of King Zan's life?

And, on a side note, the whole "first kiss" thing struck me as odd. I mean, would kissing have the same social and cultural significance on another planet, with aliens who have a different biology than us? Why not, “I remember our first glowing hickey” or “I remember when our tentacles got tangled together” or how about, “I remember when we shared a mating pod for 3 months”? Do the aliens have lips?

Hi Luna G!

VERY INTERESTING observations!!!! Well Done!!!

FLASHES VS. MEMORIES: You are absolutely correct. Flashes are a type of memory retrieval--at least when they are true flashes and not "mindwarp." Of course the BIG difference is that flashes that the audience have thus far seen are of the immediate/earth past NOT previous life/alien planet past. That is, the memories are resident in our aliens' hybrid brains. WHERE would the memories of alien planet past reside other than in those alien DNA cells?

OTHER TIME LINES. Intriguing speculation. I honestly don't know if they are going to develop the time line possibilities laid out by that eppy.

FIRST KISS/OTHER CULTURES. A cultural anthropologist would applaud you. We are not only talking aliens here, but alien bodies, culture, and mores. For all we know, swimming in jello may be a prelude to an alien mating ritual. Unfortunately I don't think our writers intend to be that sophisticated/savvy in our SF line. But you are absolutely right in your observation.

Well done...a pleasure to read your post!

LSS

I agree, I would have liked to have been able to see Max's memories (of the suns, his memories of Isabel and Michael, of swimming).Question: did they opt not to stage/film these visuals because of the expense involved, or because they wanted us to draw our own conclusions about the authenticity of his "visions?" in other words, are they leaving the door open for us to cling to whatever small hope that this is not genuine?

With the candles and the soft lighting, these memory retrieval sessions seemed more like garden-variety psychic excercises than any alien power exchange. More like a guided meditation, which most definitely relies on the power of suggestion ("picture yourself walking through a meadow..."). Max's experience may fall more into the deja vu category than true memory.

Notes on Tess:
Thinking back to Dupe Lonnie's conversation with Nicholas, Lonnie clearly said she remembers her old life, and she wants it back. I can see this going for Tess as well. Tess has more reason than any to want to go home. If I'd grown up being told "in your other life, you were a queen," I'd sure as heck want to get back there too. While I am suspicious of her techniques, she seems genuine in her motive.

There's several posts about atmospheric issues, but I think we forget the wide dramatic license Sci Fi takes...using our periodic table to determine what another solar system consists of? How planet-centric. We always assume where there's "life," there must be water -- but why assume other life forms are water-based? Gandarium isn't on the periodic table! (No one mention Cadmium X, please.) Their planet's basis for sustaining life could very well be jello (atomic symbol Je). Their atmosphere may consist of Automotive exhaust (Ex). You get my gist.

Hi Juniper!

Did that scene at all remind you of the roof outside Liz's bedroom? Talk about deja vu!

LSS

There are interesting implications here. Our Sun's radiance peaks in the 400 - 700 nm range, this is also the wavelengths where our eyes are sensitive <helps that the atmosphere is fairly transmissive here too.> If Antar's sun peaks in a different part of the spectrum, would alien eyes be different?

Hi Aeneas!

Good point. I wish we knew more about alien physiology (other than they can't drink booze...talk about a throw away detail!). Of course, SS's eyes seem able to accomodate adaptations. I wish we knew if our aliens were originally shapeshifters.

LSS

Memory retreival? Where was that? All I saw was Max believing exactly what Tess was couching him to see.

Well, if the ocean (main body of liquid in any given planet) is made of a jello-like substance, then it means that yes, this ocean will be made of water but water mixed with something else. What gives water a gelatinous quality? Bone marrow, boiling bones, flour, dust, starch. In exorbitant amounts. Well, it seems to me that all life will go to pot, literally, if the source of life (together with energy), is mixed with enormous quantities of other substances. Water is life giving because it is hydrogen and oxygen easily accessible to living beings. (That, BTW, is a universal law). When mixed with dust, flour, bones, it has lost its accessibility. But.... River Dog said clearly: Water, the common element for both Antarians and Earthlings! He said water (2 molecules of hydrogen plus one of Oxygen). He did not say: Water mixed with enormous quantities of garbage!
Something else: What's necessary for life? Water. Is it possible for a living being to extract water from a glutinous substance? Absolutely. However, if that's the case, then the beings that would have to subtract water from this viscous matter would be different from humanoids, as we know Antarians to be (per NASA's Dr. S.'s: 321-452-2121, they would be different!).
As for all stuff this season that would make Tess appear good......
1) I do believe that at one point or another during, maybe AN, that Tess planned on fogetting about Max and moving on with Kyle. So she held off on trying to get him, but it looks like JK's intent to have Tess's interest in Kyle noticeably decrease as you see happen in Heart Of Mine. What a coincedence that the episode she looses interest in Kyle, she "kisses" Max.
2) I know someone mentioned this earlier, but the whole "Suprise" episode. In Ask Not Liz informed Vanessa W. that Tess came between Max and her. So if Vanessa was looking for Vilondra, why would she torture the bride. I say Tess was in on it and made herself look like she was beat up, then sent Isabel mandwarps so she could come and be confronted by Whitaker. I am sorry but no one screams that loud for help when they have just been tortured.
3) I think most of the mindwarping of Max started at the end of EOTW, when she touched him on the shoulder. Don't get me started on the fact that she so conveniently knew where Max was after he saw Liz and Kyle together.
4) In Harvest, can someone give me a good exlplanation as to that whole Whitaker admiration scene? Tess didn't know her mother was in the room, so we know she wasn't acting just to get information.
5) I thought I should point out, did anyone noticed that in WO Tess came after everyone else was way into the show? She came right after Liz and Maria came back to the CrashDown from the street where they saw that piece of skin on the ground (could be Tess's). Not to mention the alien with the distorted vision that was looking at them.
(also could be Tess).
6) I also have an explanation for what Tess did at the end of WO. See, if you pay attention to the way that scene was edited,
you'll realize that it's very obvious that Tess could feel the "green blanket" over Roswell disappear. So she knew in that moment that the people would start to appear again, and then the skins would be in big trouble with all the people around, so she had to save them by mindwarping M/M/I to give the skins time to escape. Plus if the skins were really dead then why did Nicholas show up in MITC?
7) Another cute acknowledgement of Tess's evilness is when Nicholas looks right at Tess in WO and says "You always trusted the wrong people"!
8) If you look back on MITC, pay attention to how nervous Tess acts when she realizes that there is going to be a test to prove that they are really the Royal 4. Then notice how relieved she looks when she finds out only Max will have to take the test.
7) I can't even start to explin her behavior at the end of MITC but I know something is wrong and that she was DEFINITELY acting. That whole "I don't remember" line didn't convince me. If I was Max, I would have smacked her around saying "Where are Lonnie and Rath"? Because I'm positive Tess knows and that she probably helped them escape.
8) In ARCC, how did Tess know that Kyle liked "potatoes au gratin with bacon bits at the bottom"? Can anyone say mindrape (or at least some form of mindwarping).
9) As far as I'm concerned every single scene that had Tess in "Heart of Mine" was a mindwarp.

A planet without clouds would be interesting. On earth clouds (water vapor) have a tremendous effect on moderating the surface temperature. Some clouds reflect sunlight back into space, which serves to cool the earth. Other clouds trap heat in the atmosphere which results in warming of the earth. [1] A lot of work has been done in determining the cloud-radiative forcing function <difference between the clear-sky and total-scene radiation>. The current belief is that clouds have a net cooling effect on the earth. Without clouds the earth ends up too hot. Maybe the pools of Jello are pools of molten metal!

[1] G. Gibson and B. Wielicki, "Clouds and the Earth's Radiant Energy System", http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/ceres/ASDceres.html

Jello Water. I think we’re reading too much into it. Max and Tess’ memories of the home planet are not clear. They probably (if what they’re remembering is real) recalled the sensation of floating in something and assumed that it was water. As their memories became clearer they realized that this substance was heavy, jello-like and definitely not H20.

Orange Moons. It’s possible that pollution in their planet’s atmosphere causes the moons to look orange.

Max’s "memories." We keep thinking that Max is Zan reborn, but remember that Alien Mom said that his essence (whatever that is) was duplicated. So Max and Zan have different "souls" even though they’re linked; and different bodies. It’s possible that Max is channeling Zan’s memories, not reliving something that happened to him in a past life.

All of this seems more like mythology than sci fi, but I think we’ve passed the point where we can look to science for answers.

quote:Where is everyone??? Doin' taxes?
Qfanny
It’s been so long that we’ve forgotten how to post.

quote:I remember when our tentacles got tangled together
Luna G
Hah! And eww.

quote:MAX AND LIZ: Although I am a dreamer (through and through) simply ignoring M/T's past connection makes no literary or dramatic sense.
LSS
Unlike most of the other Dreamers, I’m not pushing for a quick reconciliation after an entire year of misunderstanding and hurt feelings. If the writers want to take it slow and explore Max’s relationship with Tess, that’s perfectly fine with me.

Jello Water: The Great Salt Lake has such a high concentration of salt that floating in it is a breeze. Further, ever watch the behavior of water in weightlessness? A lower G-field (perhaps half Earth normal?) and higher salt content could account for it.

Orange Moons: I can't say anything beyond "interesting data - file for future reference". The moons look orange. It could be gases in the atmosphere. Or suspended particulates. Or the composition of the moons themselves. Or the spectrum of the local star. Or all of the above.

Meeeemories!: I've always believed that those memories were "written in" during the growing of the clones for one reason only. To bond the podsters together. Nothing more, nothing less. I cannot, in my heart of hearts accept that an alien race would accept the podsters as their royal family. Would humans do the same? So I'm left with a) they're being used, b) if it comes down to it they're expendable, and c) the mission (whatever it truly turns out to be) requires that they be together...hence the programmed memories. And I don't think that we've seen the true purpose of all this yet. Not even close. And it saddens me to see the podsters being manipulated by what are simply a series of implanted cues. Ol' mom has some explaining to do.

Hi QFanny!

It is really hard to tell. They have not emphasized Liz's "altered" state very much--other than at a few obvious points (and of course as an explanation of her flashes). Nor have they really fleshed out Liz's response to having residual alien effects from her healing. I would come down on the "instinctual" side unless they gave us a clue otherwise.

Sigh--sometimes you get the feeling that they are making this up as they go along. Whatever to long range literary strategy?

LSS

Wow. Talk about a depressing story arc if this is true. I'm still holding out for a less destructive outcome for the podsters. Since they come from a system where (it has been theorized) there are multiple species coexisting, there could be greater tolerance for differences of form. If the "essence" is the thing, kind of like how we talk about "humanity", then I could see the podsters being accepted back as the royal four.

But, it seems to me that in that case, they'd need to mate with humans to avoid their descendants being *seriously* inbred. And then there would be a part-human ruling family over this system? Way to go for human conquest of the galaxy.

Have I mentioned that the Destiny Plan as we know it makes no sense?!!! OK, rant over.

Kzinti_Killer, I like your thought about the impact of lower gravity. But I don't really know——how does water behave in weightlessness?

Not that I can lay claim to being a science whiz, or even an enlightened hobbyist, but this "universal law" thing is exactly what I question. This to me sounds as absurd as "universal religion." Why would we assume that living beings in other solar systems or remote places in the universe are all based on the same biological architecture as ourselves? Especially considering we're talking about fiction/fantasy?

quote:Originally posted by twilightlurker:
As for all stuff this season that would make Tess appear good......
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I for one appreciate all your attention to detail! Just goes to show you once again, the viewers pay more attention than the writers and directors. We've been led to feel ambiguously about Tess from the start. There are so many possible interpretations of her powers that it is so hard to make a clear judgement about her motives. However, what of those scenes can be attrbuted to intentional misleading and what to gaping plot canyons. I know I'll never be sure.

Water has surface tension. Ever watch a water strider skate across the surface of a pond? In theory, as gravity goes down, the surface tension should behave similarly with larger objects. In freefall, liquids behave like a cross between liquids in a lava lamp and sticky jello. Imagine a waterfall flowing like half jelled gelatin, or chilled karo syrup. Go in swimming and drying off would involve scrapping off gobs of clinging water. *g*

Those memories have a role in it. I'm certain of it. Even if only as a carrot to lead them on. What I want to know is, where's the stick?

Qfanny, good idea on the moons being the other planets of the Antarian system.

Okay, science here: if the planets are orange, then the atmosphere of Antar must have a lot of an orange element in it. This could be caused by fall-out from a war or it might be its natural color. And given the "no clouds" comment, I'll vote for natural orange (besides, it's an "in" fashion color ). quote:Originally posted by Luna G:
Hi everyone! I've missed this thread...

...the whole "first kiss" thing struck me as odd. I mean, would kissing have the same social and cultural significance on another planet, with aliens who have a different biology than us? Why not, “I remember our first glowing hickey” or “I remember when our tentacles got tangled together” or how about, “I remember when we shared a mating pod for 3 months”? Do the aliens have lips?
...Luna, I missed it so much I "missed" it last night! And good point on the alien Lips thing. BTW, weren't the mechanics of the kiss a Tess "memory"?

Twilightlurker, excellent summary of Tess Issues. The problem with her being evil is that they'd have exile her to some extent, and I don't think that's in Emilie's future right now. Otherwise, I'd say you convinced me.

Re jello: Seaweed (kelp) is actually used to make vegetarian 'jello' products.

Having said this, I also recall speculation about the skins' real bodies being very small, small enough to fit through the little "instant deflation" tube.

Actually, I don't see the writers going in this direction. Too bad, because it would explain the Planet of the Mental Midgets theory they've got on the CHADs thread.

They said it was like swimming, and so, I think we should think of their physical relationship to the substance of "jello" (is Kraft a sponser?) to be similiar to our understanding of swimming. Unfortantely, being about to walk on water without sinking is something most of us cannot do. At lest, in our reality.

The water symbolism has some sexual undercurrents in my book.

quote:Originally posted by Aeneas:
A planet without clouds would be interesting. On earth clouds (water vapor) have a tremendous effect on moderating the surface temperature. Some clouds reflect sunlight back into space, which serves to cool the earth. Other clouds trap heat in the atmosphere which results in warming of the earth. [1] A lot of work has been done in determining the cloud-radiative forcing function <difference between the clear-sky and total-scene radiation>. The current belief is that clouds have a net cooling effect on the earth. Without clouds the earth ends up too hot. Maybe the pools of Jello are pools of molten metal!

Aeneas, I've enjoyed reading your theories on this thread. FYI, I re-read Congresswoman Whittaker's diary on www.silverhandprint.com this weekend, and she complained that the earth is too close to "its star" and that the Skins were having a hard time with all of the extra infrared light in the atmosphere, as well as the hot temperatures. So perhaps Antar is actually a very cold planet?

BTW, cute screen name.

P.S. Sorry this planet is a little squashed. Must have got caught in a time warp.

I agree with an ealier post that Tess is becoming more human.

Thank you, shapeshifter! A friend of mine called me that back in elementary school when E.T. was so popular. (oops--I'm dating myself!)

The idea that Max is having memories of his petri dish is hilarious!

Nemo, I would say that Maria is telling us these things from her Point of View. The reason I say this is her expression at the end, where she clearly is about to unload a complaint or twelve about Michael and his prom-o-phobia. An omniscient voice would have known better.