1) LEANNE IS NOT LEANNE. Liz suggests she might be a shapeshifer, a skin, or some type of alien we have yet to meet...what do you think? And why repeat the phrase over and over and over again in a locked file? Or present it symbolically in a binary code? Such actions speak almost of mesmerization rather than conscious movement.

2) ALEX NEVER WENT TO SWEDEN. If Liz is correct then where in the world (or off for that matter) DID he go? And what about that high school counselor's office--the one that "set up" his trip? We've seen that office used before by the FBI...is someone (or thing)else using it now?

3) MAX--THE ALIEN GODFATHER. Is Max really himself? Are we seeing echoes the alien despot he alledgedly was when he was king? He feels like he's in a dream. For Izzy and Liz it's more like a nightmare!

Tess says home is real--earth is a dream. Max said that he always thought just the opposite.

Max now thinks Michael was right all along about the alien/human dilemma...while Michael thinks now he was wrong and Max was right.

Max asks Tess: When do we wake up?
She replies: "That's up to you."
Liz tells Max: Wake up!
Max tells Tess: "I'm ready to wake up"

Just between you and me...I think the viewers are ready too...something is dreadfully wrong in all of this. A Max who threateds Izzy...who almost physically hurts Liz...and who ***** Tess on the observatory floor????? Give me a break!

Smoke and mirrors folk...there are just too many things out of character and out of place. But what is real...and what is the dream? And what will it take to really wake up?

What do you think?

LSS

You said the Skins had used the Guidance Counselors office -- when was that?

My first thought about Alex when it was revealed that the building was demolished in 1994 wasn't that Alex didn't go to Sweden, but that Alex did *time travel*. Did anyone else think this? I guess, with Liz's comment at the end, that's not the vein TPTB are going to pursue, though.

So where did Alex go, and who would propogate this entire (and very well thought out) lie? Didn't Alex communicate with his parents while he was gone? Postcards? Phone calls? I know my mom called me a couple of times when I was in Germany and, later, in Austria.

I mean -- Alex came back speaking some (admittedly bad) Swedish (so bad, in fact, that when I asked over at the Roswell Swedish/Scandanavian embassy what Alex had said -- they weren't sure). But he had memories of Sweden -- so someone has the ability to implant memories. Neither Brody nor Grant exhibited this when they were "taken over" -- they just had blank spots in their memories. But Alex "remembered" Sweden. Or was it that whoever possessed him "remembered" Sweden? (if Alex was possessed).

Who was the Leanna is not Leanna message for? A clue Alex tried to leave his friends, like the binary code? Or was the message meant for someone else? Why put that message in a locked file?

mirror imagery -- I also found it interesting that Max and Michael have reversed positions.

Can't think of more now. Maybe later.

quote:Originally posted by LSS:
[B] And why repeat the phrase over and over and over again in a locked file? for the same reason I repeat Liz is not an alien! Things are not what they appear. Liz reminded the Pod squad of that in CYN.
quote:Originally posted by LSS:
Or present it symbolically in a binary code? I personally don't see much of a connection to the Leanne is not Leanne program and the binary code. I suppose its possible and coming from the unofficial leader of the Liz Myther's Liz, I should take it more seriously. I sort of think it was the writers take on the Liz theories out there. Especially when Liz went over the Alex in Sweden timeline.
quote:Originally posted by LSS:
Such actions speak almost of mesmerization rather than conscious movement.Interesting. What if the binary code was actually Alex's password to be possessed???? At the time he signed for the food, the code was being sent to his brian for alien access. There is somesort of process for alien possession if we look at what Brody, Rath, and Larek has told us. It's not as simple think to do.

quote:Originally posted by LSS:
2) ALEX NEVER WENT TO SWEDEN. If Liz is correct then where in the world (or off for that matter) DID he go?I think he went to the ice world of Nebraska during this time. Remember him saying how balmy Roswell was when he first came back in TSAP? I really have no idea.

quote:Originally posted by LSS:
And what about that high school counselor's office--the one that "set up" his trip?Topolsky??? Maybe there's another gov't agent someowhere in the school.
quote:Originally posted by LSS:
We've seen that office used before by the skins...is sometone (or thing) using it now?I don't recall this off hand. The school office?

quote:Originally posted by LSS:
3) MAX--THE ALIEN GODFATHER. Is Max really himself?No. Something is up with him. Max was a total jerk in this episode. I did not like the way he grabbed Liz's arm. quote:Originally posted by LSS:
Are we seeing echoes the alien despot he alledgedly was when he was king?Good explanation. I can go with this one.
quote:Originally posted by LSS:
He feels like he's in a dream. For Izzy and Liz it's more like a nightmare! And what about all us dreamers out here. I wouldn't put Liz with that Max at all. Give me Mariachi Max anytime but post EOTW - ugh.

quote:Originally posted by LSS:
Tess says home is real--earth is a dream. Max said that he always thought just the opposite.I think in all fairness, Max must explore this side of himself. I think he's afraid that he'll come out worse in the end, and his fears are making him a jerk. But if you look at Michael and Isabel, who have be more receptive to their ethnic heritage, they have been made better. Tess you cannot compare. She's getting worse since she's done more memory regressions.

quote:Originally posted by LSS:
Max now thinks Michael was right all along about the alien/human dilemma...while Michael thinks now he was wrong and Max was right.
I think this is why I like the episode so much. The characters are starting to reach a full circle of thought. And they are starting to understand each other. It never was about hiding from the gov't or others. It was about hiding the truth from themselves.

quote:Originally posted by LSS:
Max asks Tess: When do we wake up?
She replies: "That's up to you."
Liz tells Max: Wake up!
Max tells Tess: "I'm ready to wake up"

Just between you and me...I think the viewers are ready too...something is dreadfully wrong in all of this. A Max who threateds Izzy...who almost physically hurts Liz...and who ***** Tess on the observatory floor????? Give me a break!

Well, it was bound to happen. Some novel writer decides that they need to get the teenagers to have sex. I've stopped watching shows in the past because of this for it feel it makes kids believe the sex is a casual thing that doesn't need to be taken seriously. Well, aside from physical risks (pregnancy and disease), nothing could be further than the truth. Look at the way Max and Tess interact with each other. There is no emotional intimacy between each other. In fact, they could be scene as trying to overcome timidness. I don't even get the feeling that Max and Tess would be friends if it wasn't for their shared history. Max and Liz will always be connected because they have emotional intimacy. What they do, what they say, has a real and lasting impact on them. It's sort of silly that they think theirs this rift between them. Why can't Max see that Liz is now part of him is beyond me.... If it had been Liz that died instead of Alex, I could see Max leaving Roswell to go to Sweden for her.

Max knows this, so the fact he doesn't understand is puzzling.

Hi brian314!

Your first post? Welcome to the SF threads!
And thanks for the info about Barnard's Star--only 5.9 light years, eh? That IS close! Thanks for helping us sort out the science from the fiction!

LSS

quote:I don't recall this off hand. The school office? [QUOTE]

You and plumeria are right--I've gone back and changed it--it WAS the FBI not the skins.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LSS:
Max now thinks Michael was right all along about the alien/human dilemma...while Michael thinks now he was wrong and Max was right.

quote:I think this is why I like the episode so much. The characters are starting to reach a full circle of thought. And they are starting to understand each other. It never was about hiding from the gov't or others. It was about hiding the truth from themselves.

You are right! About this time last season we had Michael confronting Max with "Why are you afraid to be alien? And Max asking back: Why are you afraid to be human? Now the tables are turned--and as you said, we come full circle.

LSS

Hi martyjeannine!

Well--I think you are right that someone has done something to him. Whether or not it is the FBI or some aliens remains to be seen.

I wonder about Liz's reference to some type of alien we have yet to meet. If she's right then we have the possibility of alien powers we have yet to meet as well.

And then of course we have K'var for whom our quartet represents a huge threat.

Gosh...so many possible villans...so few clues!

LSS

I did! I did!

Actually, I followed a whole (warped, I guess) train of thought.

1. That whole conversation between Max and Michael about feeling (or not feeling) human.

2. The skins, and possibly shapeshifters, aren't tied down to one time.

3. The building Alex & Leanna are standing in front of was torn down in 1994.

4. Someone else is living in Leanna's family's house.

5. You can see Barnard's star from "our home planet," but cannot see your home planet's star from Earth (actually, I bet you can, but more on that in my conclusion below)?

6. "Earth is an illusion. Our home planet is real."

7. The five stars we saw at the end in the same pattern as the Royal Seal of PSAWN (which is a drawing of five stars that can be seen from PSAWN). If we can see them, and PSAWN can see them, they must be very, very close, indeed.

Therefore, PSAWN is Earth (or another planet in our solar system) in the far, far future.

I'm still mulling over the ep, but I agree that something is desperately wrong here. This could just be Max having abandonment issues. But something is profoundly not right. The memory programming is conflicting with Max's desire to be human....or as human as possible. In a way Max's behavior is beginning to come into line with Nacedo's.

On an astronomy related issue, I thought that there was a concensus that the planets involved in this were all in one star system? If that shot of the "V" in the night sky is the real deal then, depending on their distance, those worlds are (at the very least) many lightyears apart. If not tens of lightyears. So, how can what happens on one world threaten another so quickly (as the summit indicated)...and yet travel between worlds be so limited that a trip to Earth is a major undertaking?

I just wanted to weigh in on that one. I thought the other suggestions I've seen around FF have been a lot more realistic.

Hey, how about Isabel's use of powers in anger? It was like deja vu of when Michael revealed himself to his step dad. Is TicTac gonna have to Wipe Out the whole Roswell High population? Hope not.

Oh, and didn't the crumpled paper do the blue jelly fish glow thing before it burned?

So if there's evidence that the guidance counselors were duped (pun intended), then Liz might be able to work within the law with Valenti's help.

Sandra

quote:Originally posted by Myrrhine:
I was soooo unsatisfied by Liz's theory about the binary code. I don't see how 20 0's and 1's (i think that's how many there were) could represent 20 letters and spaces.

I just wanted to weigh in on that one. I thought the other suggestions I've seen around FF have been a lot more realistic.

Kzinti Killer -- good point. If we can see the V formation, then the points must be separated by quite a distance. Otherwise it would all be a single fuzzy blob in the sky.

Yeah, that 20-characters explanation of the binary code seemed too simple. I hadn't thought about it being a possession code, though. Not sure if I buy that or not. Hmmm...

Ok, I've spent way too much time on the boards this morning. Time to go do something "real".

And Max not acting like Max...well, it's the old divide and conquer. He draws strength from his friends and family, and especially Liz. Now it seems he doesn't even have that. He's REALLY lost his balance this time. Ironic, since last season he essentially told Liz that he'd lost his balance in embracing a human life. Now that he's going in the other direction--entertaining thoughts of the alien life his former self had--he seems to be in even worse shape. (Incidentally, I still maintain that as hybrids with new experiences, they are unique individuals not beholden to their former lives--cloned "essences" or not!) Somehow (and I'm not entirely clear on the mechanism--perhaps Liz will figure it out when she learns what really happened to Alex) the enemy has found a way to manipulate Max and alienate him from the others. The only one who has benefitted from recent events is Tess...Hmmmm. (Though in all fairness, I don't think she's in cahoots with the enemy, let alone wanted Alex dead.)

Rachelle

By the way, my husband was really bothered by the fact that Tess and Max found the observatory completely empty on two occasions. I know that New Mexico has multiple observatories, but wouldn't they all be chock full of scientists and students during those prime nighttime hours?

ITA with you on this. I think that this whole season was building up towards this -- it might even have all been some kind of plot by the "enemy" to unbalance Max.

1. Tell Isabel about Vilandra's betrayal, but don't tell her the whole story, just enough that she feels she must hide it from Max.

2. Separate Max from Liz. We never saw the world of 2014, just the Granolith chamber of 2014. Perhaps the world of 2014 was a utopia, but FMax and FLiz were somehow mindwarped/manipulated into believing that things had gone horribly wrong.

3. Reunite Michael with his human-side connection, to make him less eager to support Max in trying to find out their past (I don't think that Laurie was part of the plot, just a pawn).

4. (since Max & Liz's bond was stronger than they could break in point 2. above) Cause Alex's death and make Liz certain that the aliens are the cause of it, to make Liz hate/fear/etc. the aliens, to finally separate the two.

Of course, this could also be a plot by Nasedo's ilk to remove the "pacifist" from their "pacifist king," too. . . .

I lined it up:
11100100100111011001
Leanna is not Leanna

Keep 1's=
Lea a s ot_ ea a

Um HUH???

Keep 0's=
nn _i _n L nn

Um HUH???

So I'm lost on that (non?)connection...

SQUIRREL MASTER
Wahhh!

But.....Remember who killed the Skins?? Tess did!! I mean, could all of this be a huge set up! And Tess went with Max to New York, while Ava stayed! Um, could Ava come back and tell the "truth". Could the Skins be totally alive? I mean Max is the most powerful of them all, and Nicholas was 10,000x more powerful and Tess all of a sudden kills all the Skins Its weird!

I this! Roswell you are the best show ever!

My first thought about Alex when it was revealed that the building was demolished in 1994 wasn't that Alex didn't go to Sweden, but that Alex did *time travel*. Did anyone else think this?
[/B]

Me too! My question is, was 2001 Alex in Sweeden seven years ago? Was he someplace made to look like Sweeden, with a few details unfortunately flubbed? Was he intentionally creating a ruse (with doctored photographs) to keep his friends in the dark, or possibly to protect them somehow? Are his trip stories/memories planted by someone else, or did he make the whole thing up as a cover?

quote:Originally posted by plumeria:

Who was the Leanna is not Leanna message for? A clue Alex tried to leave his friends, like the binary code? Or was the message meant for someone else? Why put that message in a locked file?

[/B]

Is the message for K'var? Another alien power? Did Alex even create that document, or did a helpful or sympathetic being leave that particular bit of information? Is/was Alex on some mission? To undermine Leanna? If Leanna is not Leanna, who is she? If Leanna is not Leanna, Is Alex Alex?

The rest of the puzzle is the disappearing Olsens. Who sent the flowers? Who faked the foreign exchange documents? Is there truly a plant in the guidance counselor's office, or is the school being duped as well? It seems rather convoluted to assume that there's a force at work in the office. Perhaps it was a legitimate program, only the host family is a front for another operation, giving false information.

And did Liz get on the plane or what?

Liz's interpretation of the binary code is worse than most of the Fan Forum posters'. I can only hope she finds out what it really represents, because that is too lame to be believed.

Moving away from the Alex scenarios, what's the deal with having hot alien sex, and how does this possibly help Max sever ties to Earth? This doesn't seem in Max's character, though nothing much these days has been. (Qfanny, as far as Max and Tess doing the deed, hey, they ARE married -- if we buy the whole Destiny blather -- I don't think the show is condoning teenage sexual activity per se. Unless you happen to be a teenage royal alien hybrid. Then it's acceptble.

I leave the star location question to the more well versed among us.

Leneba, what's with the name change?

Actually, I followed a whole (warped, I guess) train of thought.

1. That whole conversation between Max and Michael about feeling (or not feeling) human.

2. The skins, and possibly shapeshifters, aren't tied down to one time.

3. The building Alex & Leanna are standing in front of was torn down in 1994.

4. Someone else is living in Leanna's family's house.

5. You can see Barnard's star from "our home planet," but cannot see your home planet's star from Earth (actually, I bet you can, but more on that in my conclusion below)?

6. "Earth is an illusion. Our home planet is real."

7. The five stars we saw at the end in the same pattern as the Royal Seal of PSAWN (which is a drawing of five stars that can be seen from PSAWN). If we can see them, and PSAWN can see them, they must be very, very close, indeed.

Therefore, PSAWN is Earth (or another planet in our solar system) in the far, far future.

Hi PepperJackCandy!

Various posters have played with the notion of Time Travel and the podsters. Of course, we now know that Time travel (via the Granolith) is possible--That is, we know that people can travel to the past and we presume that they can travel to the future (that assumption, by the way, is not a given in SF).

Let's think about this for a moment:

1) WHY would whoever/whatever want Alex to visit Sweden-past? What is the purpose of such subterfuge??? Why isn't it more likely that the photo is "doctored" and Alex's removal of his own picture signals his distaste with the deception? (Of course you could argue that if you are going to deceive someone you ought to get a building that is still standing to pose in front of!!!)

2) If the podsters are from Earth-future (and there are MANY SF stories of leaders escaping into Earth-past for protection from Earth-future conflicts)...then why all of the hype about "aliens"?

And if their powers are of advanced humans in the far future...then why doesn't Future Max know about it? Future Max buys into the alien connection as well.

I am not adverse to having time travel elements in our storyline...I just need to be persuaded that that is where we are going.

Interesting theory PepperJackCandy! Hmmm--you have me really theorizing...any idea as to why Alex would have been taken into the past?

LSS

But I can't think why Alex would have to go back to a time when the Podsters were 11. Hmmm....

However, I have to admit that even though time travel was my first impression, I don't think it's likely TPTB are going that route. Liz makes that clear with her "Alex didn't go" comment. Not "Alex did time travel" (since she *knows* its possible, she would be the most likely to draw that conclusion under the circumstances. But she didn't.)

So I think that Alex was digitally inserted/manipulated into an existing pic of the old building, the way we do fanart.

The question of course, begs why? And did Alex know about it when he came back? (Was he aware that he was perpetrating a deception? Or did he think it was real himself?) As for the Olsens -- I think they were just a front. The real people who had Alex, whoever they were, created the fictitious family, and sent the flowers as part of the ruse.

I do not think Liz got on the plane. Why would she, since she now knows (or theorizes) that Alex didn't go either?

I stopped being suspicious of Tess (although she'll never be my favorite) very early in Season 2. Now I'm suspicious again. All the "dream" references and such just ... get my hackles up. And yet she covered up for Kyle to keep him out of trouble. I just don't get her.

I think Max slept with Tess because he was desperate for contact with *someone*. Otherwise, I think it's still OOC for him to take that step, in terms of how he sees himself in this life. (Yes, they were married -- but they're still only teens now.)

I'm getting away from SF now, so I'll stop...

At the end of the epi it was said that the building in the picture was destroyed in 1994. In BB (I think) Alex said he moved to Roswell in the 4th grade and Liz and he became friends in Ms. Elmer’s 5th grade class. 1994 would approximately be when Alex moved to Roswell.

I’m not quite sure how this is significant but I am sure it is. Any body have any thoughts?

Hmm, the time travel thing never occurred to me. I’m not sure I buy that one but you never know.

Lizzybell
_____________________
Loner
I’m just happy to be nominated. -Kyle
Go read Secrets in the Past. Now!

Hey, I usually just lurk here, but I just wanted to say that I agree with you there. I also noticed that there was too much discussion of dreams for there not to be any reason for it. Maybe Tess has mindwarped Max so that he'll see what he's supposedly *destined* to do. She's mindwarped him before, why wouldn't she do it again? That would also explain why Max has been such a jerk to everyone but her. I dunno, it's just a thought.

~*~Jen~*~

We have already established the fishiness of the multiple dream references in ITLAITB and that Alex probably did not go to Sweden.
I was over at Silver Hand print looking for clues and I can’t believe I missed one that’s been there for quite a while.

The interview Alex did for the school newspaper, the head line is Swede Dreams.

I was getting fairly sympathetic towards Tess as well but now I really think she is controlling Max. I think its a little strange that all the things they both seem to remember are straight out of a romance novel but they are not remembering anything important. Like how they died or why or something about Vilandra. I would think that the important things would be somewhere in there too. Maybe its just wishful thinking.

Lizzybell
__________________
Loner
I’m just happy to be nominated. -Kyle
Go read Secrets in the Past, Now!

I'd still, however, buy that the Destiny plan, and subsequent catastrophes, is a machination of another force, and that Tess is being controlled against her knowledge/will, or doesn't know that she's not part of the royal group as everyone has been led to believe. Or something. Just don't make it all a freaking mindwarp.

(edited for grammar and clarity)

When Future Max told Liz about their wedding in Las Vegas, didn't he say that Maria, Michael, Isabel and ALEX met up with them? So when Future Max returned to change the course of events, he in a way became responsible for Alex's death, right? That would make Liz responsible as well. (BTW, I have to give credit to Wisters for this observation.) Then you throw in the possibility of Alex involved with time travel, and I'm just not sure where that leaves us. Does Liz realize her unintended part in Alex's demise? Does Max somehow unconsciously sense that he IS responsible (though not in the way that Liz implied) just as he somehow sensed the alternate future while in Las Vegas?

The time-travel explanation for Alex is rather tantilizing, but I suspect that there is a more straight-forward explanation. Somehow, someone out there has similar powers to Tess's. They waylayed Alex on the way to Sweden, created a bunch of false memories and did SOMETHING to him in the mean time. Perhaps laying the groundwork for something very sinister. He returned with an aura of confidence and appeal that was never really explained. Isabel noticed it, as did Liz and Maria. What purpose did this serve? I don't know, but somehow, for some reason, he was changed. I think the "signature" on the receipt was a message from the real Alex. On some level, though he wasn't able to express it and perhaps wasn't even consciously aware of it, he realized that there was something wrong with or dangerous about him and knew to warn the others.

As Juniper said, if Leanna is not Leanna, is Alex Alex? Very clever observation, Juniper!

I'm beginning to think that Alex wasn't Alex after all. Maybe it's like when Brody isn't Brody, but in a more subtle way. We know that a person can be "abducted" by an individual from the home planet, but that it takes tremendous energy, can only be sustained for short periods of time and may be physically damaging to the individual. But what if it were done by someone here on Earth? Are the rules and effects different?

Juniper, I'll take your question a step further. Is Max Max? He certainly isn't acting like the kind, sensitive, tender-hearted person we've come to know. It's almost as if he's deliberately provoking the people he loves the most. Is someone trying to exert their control over him? I think the answer is a big, fat YES!

Rachelle

P.S. Juniper, I've disliked my username since the day after I created it. I just finally got around to changing it to something I like better. I'm including the old one in my signature because my motives in changing it had nothing to do with misleading anyone (as I've heard has been a problem on FF in the past).

And this is not meant as a Tess bash. I think she's shown a lot of great qualities this season, usually in conjuction with Kyle. But when it comes to Max -- something just doesn't jive with me. It's like she's pushed too hard for it. But she hasn't pushed Michael and Iz to be together -- and wouldn't they be just as crucial if Destiny is all Tess is concerned about?

On the other hand -- we know that in 2014 everything falls apart because Tess is not there. That implies that she's on the Podster's side, and that they needed her to fight the war. So ::shrug:: I honestly haven't a clue.

Just my thoughts...

I'm beginning to think that Alex wasn't Alex after all.

It's kinda funny cause when Alex first came back from Sweden my dad (who rarely watch's the show) said that he thinks Alex isn't himself, and that maybe he is an alein.

Nicole

What if Leanna is Serena and the binary code is how you give the Granolith its time travel capabilities!?!?

What was going on when we last saw Alex befoe his "trip"? What was the last episode he appeared in? What if he was doing investigating of his own and met Serena and she is already connected to the ever burgeoning I Know An Alien Club?

Okay, I know it's out there, but you never know!

I've been thinking about this PSAWN = Earth idea, because it sounds fun. Hats off to Pepperjack Candy for this theory. But as I thought it through, I ran into a few snags. The information we had on PSAWN before this episode was:
-From Liz's flashes in sexual healing, it is supposed to be in another galaxy (I think).
-Five inhabited planets with different races/species on them in some combination.
-The skins' planet, at least, is farther from their star than Earth, and Earth's atmosphere is toxic to the skins, but evidently not to the shapeshifters.
-According to Rath in MITC, the reason for the use of temps is because of the extreme physical distance between Earth and the PSAWNian system.
-Time on PSAWN exists in multiple subset dimensions. Humans can't exist in them and temporarily disappear when a field of this type is created.
-According to the Tess/Max memory retrieval session, there are three orange moons on PSAWN, no clouds, and the water (if it is truly H2O) has a higher viscosity and density than here.

In order for PSAWN to be a future version of Earth, most if not all of these would have to be false, right?

But Pepperjack Candy had an excellent point in that IF Barnard's star is visible from planet SAWN, and IF the V-constellation is also visible from planet SAWN, then doesn't it follow that the SAWNian star system must be in the close neighborhood? Interstellar triangulation anyone?

Of course, the whole Barnard's star thing could be a red herring or a Tess deception.

On another topic, Lionspaw was talking about changing history:
Not only was ALEX supposed to be at the wedding-which-did-not-take-place, but so was ISABEL. Doesn't that mean she would still have been living in Roswell? If Alex hadn't died, would she be considering leaving Roswell now? I don't think so. Messing with the time-line is always a bad idea. On the up side, once present Liz becomes future Liz, she'll have learned this lesson the hard way, and history will NOT repeat itself.

**Edited to say PSAWN = Planet Still Annoyingly Without a Name/ they use it on the CHADs thread because typing "the podsters home planet" all the time takes forever.

What if Leanna is Serena and the binary code is how you give the Granolith its time travel capabilities!?!?

What was going on when we last saw Alex befoe his "trip"? What was the last episode he appeared in? What if he was doing investigating of his own and met Serena and she is already connected to the ever burgeoning I Know An Alien Club?

Okay, I know it's out there, but you never know!

...Interesting

I’m not quite sure how this is significant but I am sure it is. Any body have any thoughts?

Hmm, the time travel thing never occurred to me. I’m not sure I buy that one but you never know.

Thanks, Lizzybell! I noticed the same thing! And, yes, your time frame is right, by my math too. Alex moved to Roswell and to get to know Liz in the 5th grade, having met in the 4th grade. 4th and 5th grade would have included 1994.

I am thinking that some connection goes back to 1994 for some strong alien contact, involving Alex as a protector or enemy agent. (Thinking back to his comments about life being a lie to the delivery guy.) Could he have been possessed (ala Brody) as far back as his childhood? ~~~sailboat:

But.....Remember who killed the Skins?? Tess did!! I mean, could all of this be a huge set up! And Tess went with Max to New York, while Ava stayed! Um, could Ava come back and tell the "truth". Could the Skins be totally alive? I mean Max is the most powerful of them all, and Nicholas was 10,000x more powerful and Tess all of a sudden kills all the Skins Its weird!

I this! Roswell you are the best show ever!

Okay, Let's assume that Tess and Maria did not kill the skins. Let's forget that WipeOut happened at all. The skins would probably be dead right now anyway. No new husks - skins become dust.

There does seem to be a Leanne - skin connect though... Alex would have lived had TEOTW had not occurred. When Liz pinned Max as responsible, I suppose in a round about way, she could pin "future Max's" visit as the catalyst that eventually caused Alex to die.

I usually just lurk here too, but I wanted to get these things out of my system that have been eating away at me!
OK, I was thinking that maybe Alex had the intention of going to Sweden, and the counseling office was doing everything right, but he was intercepted on the way there. Like whoever it was that did this to him knew about the trip, and thought it was the best time to do whatever it is that they did.
I also agree withLizzybell on the memory retrevals. Don't ya think that there could have possibly been more going on back on their planet besides the two of them kissing and swimming in Jello? Like maybe a WAR? Maybe it's just stuff that she doesn't want him to see.
Also, you probably went over this(or maybe its on the Liz myth thread) but I tihnk that Liz is so desperste for answers because she blames herself for Alex's death. If she hadn't told him,and gotten him involved, it never would have happened. And if she and Future Max had never changed the future, he would still be alive.

I don't know, I'm still sorting this out myself. It's all mush in my head and I'd better get answers soon!!(and they'd better make sense)

What if Leanna is Serena and the binary code is how you give the Granolith its time travel capabilities!?!?

What was going on when we last saw Alex befoe his "trip"? What was the last episode he appeared in? What if he was doing investigating of his own and met Serena and she is already connected to the ever burgeoning I Know An Alien Club?

Okay, I know it's out there, but you never know!

I actually think that you are very much in the stadium with this one. It is definatley a possibility. I was also thinking that maybe they could have been trying to decode the Destiny book together. Am I in the parking lot with this one?

There's no certainity that Alex would have gone to Sweden in the old timeline. The only thing we know is that Alex would have lived to see Max and Liz marry... Timeline changed, Alex does not live. If you change one event, you change all future events. For Serena to be Leanna, you would have to have some continuity over the two different timelines. (And we all know that timelines are not used by the writing staff - hehehe).

The whole point of TEOTW was to change the future, I therefore find it hard to believe that Serena as Leanna could work. Do you really think the writers could pull this one off and have it accepted?

I'm not sure about the trip being originally legit, either. The forms and such had a phone number that was false. So that implies that the conspiracy (or whatever it was) was propigated at that stage.

But *excellent* point about how Alex was supposed to be at the wedding for the original timeline. I'm not sure Isabel's presence is significant -- we don't know what time of year Liz and Max got married. Even if she went to college in SF in the original timeline (she could have gone at the regular time after Sr. year), she might have been home on summer vacation or something at the time of the wedding. But Alex definitely was supposed to be there...

So -- that implies to me that whoever is responsible for Alex's death -- knew that the timeline had been tampered with. So he/she tampered with it further.

1)Leanne is not Leanne---I agree with the idea that maybe the binary code or "Leanne is not Leanne" statement is perhaps some kind of mental trigger that was used on Alex. After all, Alex wasn't strange all the time so there must have been something that set him off.

2)What happened to Alex?---I don't know what to think about the guidance counsellor conspiracy. Not enough has been revealed to draw conclusions from there. I think the main focus of attention right now is the photo. Was the photo altered to make it look like he was in Sweden? Or maybe the photo was taken at an elaborate fake location that was meant to fool everybody? Then of course there is the last possibility-----Alex travelled back in time. I am leaning towards the first two possibilities because whoever was behind this, obviously did not do their homework. They were not aware that the building was demolished in 1994.

3)
quote:originally posted by LSS
MAX--THE ALIEN GODFATHER. Is Max really himself? Are we seeing echoes the alien despot he allegedly was when he was king?

LSS--It is interesting that you brought up that point because I certainly am seeing parallels between the current situation and the past. Is Max becoming more like his old self the king?
Remember what Larek said in Max in the City:

quote:
And it was so painful to watch you fall, to see you trying so hard to make a better world for your people. And then to watch you have it all taken away..... I told you, you were trying to do too much too soon, that change takes time. But you wouldn't listen. You just kept....(trails off) What's the point? It's all ancient history now. What a shame it is to see history repeat itself.

That apparently was the past. But now it is becoming the present as Max continues to make horrible decisions in his leadership role. Already he is making an enemy of Isabel by forcibly confining her to Roswell. Did King Max make the same mistake by confining Vallandra to the Royal palace in an effort to thwart her romance with Kivar? And where exactly does Michael fit into all this? Michael was the one cool head in this episode that seemed confident, reliable and understanding. Are these the qualities that the "Michael-worshippers" believed would make Michael a better candidate for leader? History does seem to be repeating itself but how? Even if DNA & essence can recreate life, it cannot recreate history. No, something like that would require careful & constant manipulation----interference from someone who is knowledgeable of the past. Just as the hologram in Destiny orchestrated a division between the humans & aliens, something sinister here has orchestrated a division between the Royal Four. The Royal Four are now vulnerable more than ever before. Who set this up, and what do they hope to achieve?

Scooby

Thanks!

quote:But as I thought it through, I ran into a few snags.

Eh. Well, I figured that since TPTB don't pay such close attention to continuity, I could take a little poetic license. ;-)

quote:**Edited to say PSAWN = Planet Still Annoyingly Without a Name/ they use it on the CHADs thread because typing "the podsters home planet" all the time takes forever.

Actually, the CHADDs have changed it to "Planet Still Annoying even With a Name," now that silverhandprint.com has revealed the name to be "Antar."

The only comment I have to throw in really isn't sci-fi related, but it did seem to stick in my head.

When Max was confronting Isabel about her decision to go to away, he said "You've been indulged in this too long". What an odd thing to say! It makes me think that as the memories of his old life comes back, some of his personality/behavioral traits are resurfacing as well. Perhaps it is this very "control" issue (which even our beloved Earth Max has contended with) that caused the rift between the brother and sister in the first place... which in turn led to her betrayal. He seemed extremely unsympathetic towards her, seeing as the boy she loved had just died. Granted, that need to keep them all together seemed to be uppermost in his mind, but still... it WAS very un-Max like... although we have seen him lose control before when things spun out of his control before.

Curiouser and curiouser....

I don't buy the time travel thing, but I do think the photo error was just sloppy work on the cover-uppers.

In reference to all the Max is not acting like himself posts...Did anyone else notice that when Max grabbed Liz by the arm she didn't have flashes.

I know that it is possibly because of the anger and distance between them as of late, but I felt there was something more by the way the camera really focused on his hand on her arm (almost in the same place that he touched her in Skin and Bones and gave her flashes)

Plus Max always said that flashes are most likely to occur in heightened emotional states.

I also wanted to mention that I understand how many people aren't buying into Liz's desperate search for answers, but I think that it all becomes a lot more believable when you consider that she is probably very aware that Alex wasn't suppose to die in the previous timeline.

I like the idea of Earth=PSAWN. I just am not sure how it would work, time and space wise. I'm sure someone can come up with something. All the clues about the planet don't add up anyway.

Barnard's star is notable for three things:
1) It has the largest proper motion (angular motion relative to the background stars). It moves about half the angular diameter of the moon per century.
2) It is the second nearest star (about 6 light-years), which helps explain (1).
3) It was once claimed to wobble (as Tess said). This wobble, being attributed to planets, aroused much interest as the first such evidence of planets around stars other than our own. But the claim now seems dubious -- other astronomers found no actual wobble, only some appearance thereof, which was traced to measurement errors.

I wonder whether Tess's repeating this questionable or discredited bit of astronomy is supposed to be a clue as to the reliability of some of her other claims?

References: http://www.hao.ucar.edu/public/research/stare/search.html http://astrosun.tn.cornell.edu/courses/astro101/1998/lecture08/sld005.htm

First:

I think either Tess is not Tess.... like someone (a skin... or some other alien) has taken over Tess' body) or Tess is evil all along... this is how:

She clouded the aliens minds... or atleast Max's... we all know he's acting... different... look at how she smiles when his *friends* aren't with him, or how she grins when he leaves the *humans*.... shoot... when he yelled at Issabel... did u see Tess' FACE? And then when Max left without saving Alex? Pure delight, like *ha, I've got Max right where I want him*... u know? And maybe how Max keeps saying... uh... about the *real world* being partially a dream... it's b/c Tess is blocking it... maybe on *their* planet Tess did something wrong to Max that she doesn't want him to remember, or maybe she was never from his planet and she doesn't want him to know that...

this thing that Alex had in a locked file... the sweden trip... maybe Tess needed him away? I donno, I blam Tess J/K... but this gyrl.. prolly alien... prolly took him to another planet. He couldn't tell anyone... or maybe he could. If he couldn't tell anyone then that's who killed him. If he could tell someone, then the enemy killed him... He wouldn't commit suicide... not Alex!!

hi all the Roswell fans!!!! Hope ya'll don't mind me postin

Which is not to say that Alex might have not have done time travel. It's just that the cold-food theory doesn't seem to work.

I'm definitely interested in exploring the altered timeline idea -- that Alex was supposed to live in the original line because he was at FM/FL's wedding. So who knew that that timeline was changed?

I agree with Hoku and anyone else with this theory -- not that it's mindwarp or anything, but there seems something sinister about Tess's attitude lately, that she seems determined to separate Max from the others, get him back home ... why? Is she really Vilandra, the betrayer?

Enough babble...

People keep talking about Alex moving to Roswell in 1994?? When did we ever discover that? He and Liz talk about becoming friends in 5th grad (Blood Brother) but that's all I can come up with? Can anyone enlighten me?

(Alex shows up at the Crashdown before it's open)

LIZ: Thanks for coming.

ALEX: I've met you here a thousand times, but it just doesn't feel the same. You know?

LIZ: Yeah. I know. Alex. You've been my friend since Ms. Elmer's class in the fifth grade.

ALEX: No no no. We actually met in fourth, but you didn't notice me till fifth.

LIZ: Yes. And I've come to you with every problem I've ever had.

WB S1 primer: http://www.thewb.com/roswell/primer/
WB S2: http://www.thewb.com/roswell/primer/s2/

Crashdown.com transcripts/screencaps/reviews http://www.crashdown.com/episodes/

Qfanny and shapeshifter's archive of S1 observations/musings/theories from this message board: http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/

Remember that Alex took a good look at the framed photo of himself with Leanna at about the same time that the food arrived? Well, what if he finally noticed that the picture had been doctored? That would explain why it was out of its frame in his car. Maybe he finally realized that events and time sequences weren't adding up (i.e., that someone had been possessing him) and was running off to tell one of the other members of the Pod Squad & show them the photo? It still doesn't explain the credit card receipt, but it would explain why he never got around to eating his dinner (remember that the Thai food bag was left unopened on his desk). Probably a lame theory, but I just thought that I'd throw it into the mix.

Esther

Yes, she can manipulate emotions. In 4 Square, she made Diane Evans like her and trust her enough to share family photos and things. Diane says that Tess came over, and suddenly she felt compelled to reminisce about Max and Isabel's childhood with her.

I for one appreciate your babble! I pulled the comment below off of the "Mystery Behind Alex's Death" thread, and I thought this was worth mentioning again:

quote:Originally posted by totenhosen:

now for the really crazy part. as someone mentioned earlier, brody talks about missing time and having weird dreams when he's abducted. now what about the food delivery guy. remember he was really late and the food was cold? remember how he tells alex he kind of got turned around on whatever street it was? remember how he told valenti he delivers a lot of cold food? what if he's an abductee like brody but doesn't realize it.... i know, it's a crazy idea. but what if the delivery guy was abducted on the way to alex's house and while he was under alien control he did something to the food or put something in the bag? [/B]

Which is all moving toward the possibility that there was something in the bag that triggered an Alex freakout (to use the technical term). Or, as I mentioned last week, the delivery boy said or did something that triggered a post-hypnotic suggestion of sorts. Perhaps the DB was abducted or temped.

Which is not to say that Alex might have not have done time travel. It's just that the cold-food theory doesn't seem to work.

I'm definitely interested in exploring the altered timeline idea -- that Alex was supposed to live in the original line because he was at FM/FL's wedding. So who knew that that timeline was changed?

I agree that the cold food thing doesn't mean time travel or abduction. I think it may have been the trigger for his "episode", though.

Why would someone need to know that the timeline was changed? It is because the timeline is changed that anything can now happen. Including Alex being killed. Nobody has to know that it was changed for everything to now be different. Or am I missing something?

Well, in my mind, FM/Liz's changing the timeline shouldn't really affect Alex. It affects predominantly Liz, Max, and Tess, although of course the ripple effect will spread. But I don't see how what FM/Liz did could have caused whatever-happened-to-Alex. I can see how people themselves might be acting differently now than they might have in the original timeline, but if we are to assume that whatever-happened-to-Alex came from an outside force, it seems to me they would have had to know that the timeline was changed. Either that or that outside force (who/whatever it is) was affected directly by the FM/L decision, and in very short order. So if that's the case, who would that be? There's a very limited range of people who have been affected by the FM/L change at this point.

Argh. I don't feel like i'm explaining it very well.

Argh. I don't feel like i'm explaining it very well.

Hi Plu...
I guess where people are getting this is because FM told Liz that Alex was present at their wedding in the original time-line. Somehow that was changed in the present time-line after Liz changed it. Whether or not there is a real connection remains to be seen (as usual).

The only major difference is that Tess remained in Roswell and Max and Liz are not together in the nothing could separate us way that Fmax described to her in EOTW.

This leads to the only event I think could have some bearing on what happened to Alex. The dupes came to Roswell and Max and Tess went with them to NYC. I believe that if EOTW had not occured either:

(A) Max would not have went to NY with Rath and Lonnie
(B) Liz and Max would have went to NY

(C)all of them (no Tess) would have went

The last episode Alex was in was Meet the Dupes. He went to Sweden after that episode.

Of course I have no idea what any of this means except that I believe what happened to Alex has something to do with Tess still being in Roswell and the trip to NYC.

My other theory has to do with Kivar realizing that FMax got to Liz.
He interfered with Alex because he discovered that the Royal Four are not overtaken in 2014 as they were before the events of EOTW.

The outside they use is the Griffith Observatory. DH and I go up there all the time (whenever we're in L.A.) to see the Hollywood sign.

I want to know how much it'd cost to put our family's name on the outside of the observatory for a photo op. I'd love to have a picture of the "(our last name) Observatory."

Crashdown.com transcripts/screencaps/reviews http://www.crashdown.com/episodes/

Qfanny and shapeshifter's archive of S1 observations/musings/theories from this message board: http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/

Thank u sooo much, I just ended up clicking WB b/c of some roswell site I found and it's the same site as the first 2 u gave me (thanx!! ) and I'm up to eppy 17 on season 1... and noticed I didn't miss much on that, but I did miss some important things... *sigh* thanx again!!!!!

Hi Lorrilei1960!

I've got to say that the confrontation between I/M was one of the more chilling scenes in the entire two seasons. Not only was it extremely patronizing, but to threaten Izzy with a complete destruction of her character in such an unwarranted way makes Max's character almost demonic. And he delivered those threats in such a flat voice ...

As I said before...something is awfully wrong with this whole picture.

LSS

Lots and lots of science fiction is devoted to the whole idea of one small change leading to bigger changes later. Like Hoku says in her post above me, Frequency is an excellent example (and also an excellent, and disorienting, movie to see in a theater. I came out half expecting my dmil to be babysitting a bottlefed daughter, rather than the breastfed son I left her with ).

Until we know all of the details about Alex's death, we won't know *how* EOTW caused his death.

We're pretty sure that Max was so wrapped up in Liz that he didn't go to the summit at all in the pre-EOTW timeline.

By going to the summit, Max met the representatives of the other four PSTUNs*, including Larek, whom they've brought back two more times. And one of those times, it was Is who contacted him.

Perhaps Larek mentioned having been in contact with Vilandra to the wrong person on his planet, somehow drawing the attention of K'Var, and set Alex's death in motion that way.

Oh, and is anyone else having trouble making the amazon.com donation thingy work? I keep getting the "Contacting host . . ." message, and it doesn't get any farther.

*Another CHADs thread abbreviation -- Planets Still Thankfully UnNamed

Edited to add: And if they hadn't been in contact with Larek, I bet the world would have been a lot closer to ending by the end of the HC arc pre-EOTW than post-EOTW, so perhaps Alex's death was caused simply because after the Earth's population was significantly reduced by the Gandarium virus, there weren't any good opportunities for whoever wanted Alex dead to kill him.

I read an interview with Marvin Minsky recently, where he talked about a new book he has coming out, The Emotion Machine. In the interview, he said,
"The main theory is that emotions are nothing special. Each emotional state is a different style of thinking...In an adult person, part of the thinking process is being able to manipulate these and turn one on and have it compute something. You can compute some things when you're angry that you can't when you're afraid, and so forth." "...the main point of the book is that it's trying to make theories of how thinking works. Our traditional idea is that there is something called 'thinking' and that it is contaminated, modulated or affected by emotions. What I am saying is that emotions aren't separate."

Minsky is saying that emotion isn't some mysterious other force, but just a pattern of thought. I was thinking that if Tess (or someone else) is able to affect Max at an emotional level, this would explain the irrational behavior. Rather than someone putting specific words into Max's mouth, perhaps they are just "turning on" the anger thought-pattern, or the romantic thought-pattern. Don't know if this makes any sense. Oh well.

If changing the timeline is what caused the Group to meet the dupes.
Maybe meeting the dupes is what caused Alex to go to "Sweden". And going to "Sweden" is what caused his death. I wanted him to be possessed by Kivar but now I'm leaning towards a theory where he leaves to investigate aliens and meets Serena. But it probably isn't what happened either. Aaaah!

Anyway, it is a thought. Did anyone else notice the "V" star symbol at the fadeout from Barnard's star? I think that lends credence that Antar=Earth in a different timeline.

Jamethiel
"I shall believe!" (In the face of all evidence to the contrary).

You should check out the Liz Myth thread. A lot of posters picked that up when Leanna was first mentioned.

quote:Originally posted by LSS:
P.S. Okay you astronomy types--is there really a Bernard Star?

And I'm fairly sure Barnard's star is a red dwarf, not a red giant. That's why it's so hard to see despite being the 2nd closest star system to earth.

Now, here's a really good point. Thank you shapeshifter. If we take the story of Future Max seriously, a person who makes the decision to travel back in time and changes *anything*, will sacrifice his or her existence in order to do it. Future Max sacrificed Future Liz, he sacrificed himself, Liz sacrificed her happiness and the great love of her life, between them they initiated the changes which led Alex to be sacrificed as well. So where is this morality tale leading us? Not all myths have a happy ending.

True.

What if TPTB have decided to get out of the "in a different galaxy" thing by making the red star not particularly far away, but particularly small, so that it only *looks* like it's far away?

I have a question that I don't recall anyone mentioning.

Why doesn't Max get visions from all the making out he has been doing with Tess.

We all remember the visions between M/L...(in no particular order)
*The Pilot
*Sexual Healing
*Blind Date
*Surprise
*EOTW

In Missing, after getting a flash of Kyle being in Liz's room, Max tells her that when things get intense or heightened...that they see things...feel things.

Then why were there no flashes or vision between M/T in the final scene of ITLITB?

I have a theory about the time travel aspect, but it's past my bed time!

And Qfanny, when you see Maxcedo, tell him thanks for starting the last Liz Myth thread.

The basic theme of this post: As much as I love the Roswell writer's they don't do their science homework. :-(

Barnard's star... even if by some chance the podster's homeworld was even closer to Barnard's star than we are, so its more significant to us than them, which seems doubtful... why should she pick out that star? Sirius is bright enough to dominate this entire area of space, star-wise, and it would be really impressive if Tess could point out that it was the brightest star in the night sky of both worlds or something. If you wanted to establish the podster's homeworld as being more distant, pick out a really distant supergiant like Rigel or Deneb that would be noticeable over all this sector of the galaxy, and if you really want them to be in another galaxy then point out a galactic landmark like the Andromeda nebula. No point is served by picking out Barnard's star... except possibly proving that dear Tess is full of c$ap. (Which isn't outside the bounds of possibility.)

2) Binary code. For a computer geek to say that 'binary code is primarily important in telling a computer what to do' or whatever he said... that seemed misleading to me. EVERY kind of information a computer can store has to be converted into binary, and that's the essential point to understand about it. (That and that a binary string says considerably less than an equivalent length in ordinary letters, because there are only two choices. The twenty digits on the thai food signature would encode about two and a half letters using traditional ASCII encoding. Less, now that unicode is starting to catch on, but that's another story.)

So... that's my vent lol. Anyone care to reply, rebut, or join in? ;-)

So... that's my vent lol. Anyone care to reply, rebut, or join in? ;-)

ITA about the science. I can overlook the molecular manipulation, healing, even shapeshifting. When you start the Cadmium X stuff, it's over the edge. I wound up doing a re-write of Skin & Bones, calling it Skins & Bone. See http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/skinsAndBone.htm if you've a mind to. All science guaranteed, or your money back.

Barnard's star. Gotta love it: a brown dwarf, so dim you practicly have to be on top of it to see it. I'll bet there's only one star, maybe, close enough to see it with the naked eye. (Research project?)

Binary code. Nuts. I think it's just Alex's way of getting Liz to think "computer puzzle". Then she gets to Alex's computer, and the only locked file in the whole computer (could it be more obvious?) is the next clue. Easy, in a left-hand threaded sort of way.

I have a question that I don't recall anyone mentioning.

Why doesn't Max get visions from all the making out he has been doing with Tess.

We all remember the visions between M/L...(in no particular order)
*The Pilot
*Sexual Healing
*Blind Date
*Surprise
*EOTW

In Missing, after getting a flash of Kyle being in Liz's room, Max tells her that when things get intense or heightened...that they see things...feel things.

Then why were there no flashes or vision between M/T in the final scene of ITLITB?

I have a theory about the time travel aspect, but it's past my bed time!

Hi Behrfan!

That is an interesting point.

Qfanny argued that only human/hybrid contacts produce flashes. I'm not so sure. In TLV the infamous "rain kiss" reseambled a flash rather than a mindwarp.

The problem is--we just don't have much to go on...there have been four human/hybrid contacts via kisses (M/L, M/M, I/A, I/G) only two of which have produced flashes (though some argue that the I/A might have...it was never made specific to the audience). and of course there has been one human/alien kiss with L/N--that produced something as well...but what was it?

There has only been one hybrid/hybrid kiss contact (if you discount the dreams in which M/I played a part)--and that is M/T. That is hardly a sample the size of which one can speculate. In TLV there were several occasions where it looks like Tess was mindwarping Max--the cafe, the lab...but that rain kiss after which Max asks Tess "Who are you?" looked like a flash to me.

I guess one has to set criteria for recognizing what distingishes a flash (from say, a mindwarp). To me, flashes seem to be "flashbacks" that involve the recovery of some memory. We discussed briefly on this thread whether or not flashes can be "flashforwards" that is, precognitive. One could argue that when they are in Nevada, Max "flashesforward" to a future that has been prevented by Future Maz'x intervention (or maybe is still in force and we just don't know it?)--as Nemo said...time in SF is a slippery thing!

One wonders if the memory retrieval that allegedly has gone on between M/T might not qualify theoretically as flashes...but since the audience has not been privy to the mechanics of this, we cannot know for sure.

And of course what category would those images between Liz/Nesedo fall into??? If they are flashbacks are they to scenes from the home planet or what?

Interesting question Behrfan.

LSS

How about this too for future story thoughts? what if that binary code activates the granolith's time travel functions?

Remember, time travel forwards is no problem, we're already doing it.

Alas, that is all too true! As I've noted too many times to count...SF does not have to be accurate science wise but it does have to appear to have the aura of plausibility. Roswell stretches believability too many times to sit easily SF wise!

LSS

7. The five stars we saw at the end in the same pattern as the Royal Seal of PSAWN (which is a drawing of five stars that can be seen from PSAWN). If we can see them, and PSAWN can see them, they must be very, very close, indeed.

Therefore, PSAWN is Earth (or another planet in our solar system) in the far, far future.

Oh my Gosh! This totally blew me away! What a number of questions this would answer. The question of fuel for one. And distance. The 'time' it would take to travel between the planets. Excellent!

When is the last time anyone has seen Max actually use his powers in an episode??? IMO it is in How the Other Half Lives when Max, Iz and Tess are attempting to free Alex and Kyle from the gandarium cave. The three of them working in unison appear to be powerless to create an escape opening.

My theory: this is actually the first attempt at killing Alex. I think Tess was blocking Max's powers (perhaps Isabel's as well) in hopes that Alex, and even an expendable Kyle, would suffocate to death.

I think the only reason Max was unable to save Alex in the coroner's van is because, once again, his powers are being blocked by Tess.

Someone (probably alien) wanted Alex dead. I am 100% convinced that Max is being controlled and is not himself. Is he being controlled by Tess??? Yes, I think so. Her strange smiles and showing up when he's the most vulnerable is so obvious. However, I don't rule out the possibility that she may be under someone else's control as well. I think she is the most powerful of the Royal 4 due to all those years spent with Nasedo. She was able to evaporate multiple skins with one burst of power. The girl is a force to be reckoned with.

Right now, I think Max is totally "powerless" on every level.

LSS, I agree with you and the others, that on this show there are some startling departures from real science (like the walk-in cyclotron -- but what cool visual effects!). So, the show is apparently not "hard science fiction" but rather a curious blend with some fantasy mixed in. (Not as much as the X-files, I would say.) This is not so very uncommon, is it? I wouldn't want to say such a genre is illegitimate -- I think such stories can still be very satisfying if the characters are lifelike enough (and the plot self-consistent, etc.).

For example, there is an old science fiction story "Light of Other Days" by Robert Shaw in which the central invention is “slow glass” – light takes 10 years to get through a windowpane of the stuff, so that the viewer sees now whatever the window “saw” 10 years before. (This story comes to mind because, recently, light really has been slowed to a standstill – at least for one frequency at a time.) For example a city apartment dweller could buy such a pane that had soaked up 10 years of mountain scenery, and see eagles flying. Now the optics of this do not withstand scrutiny – for one thing the flatness tolerance would have to be a lot less than an atomic diameter. Does this imperfect plausibility impair the story? Those who nominated it for the 1966 Nebula Award didn’t think so.

quote:Originally posted by ChrisK0:
Barnard's star... why should she pick out that star? Sirius is bright enough to dominate this entire area of space, star-wise, and it would be really impressive if Tess could point out that it was the brightest star in the night sky of both worlds or something....But in that case wouldn’t we be left wondering, how does one know it’s the SAME star? And not just some other bright (or nearby) star of about the same color, of which there must be millions? Instead of brightness, it’s the (alleged) wobble that makes the star distinctive, that is supposed to convince Max that Tess is able to recognize it. Barnard’s star was once thought to exhibit such a wobble. (Yes, I know that doesn’t altogether escape the same objection -- any light, nearby star with heavy planets would wobble too – perhaps Tess doesn’t expect Max to think of that.)

The idea that the real Barnard’s star wobbles now seems to be discredited by further study with better equipment. I am waiting to see whether we are supposed to ignore this fact, (perhaps in the story world, Barnard’s star really does wobble noticeably), or whether it hints that Tess’s information is unreliable, as you suggest.

If what Tess says about the (possibly fictional) star is true, that puts the alien worlds vastly closer to Earth than we thought in season 1, and leaves us wondering how Liz saw (in a vision somehow related to Max) some detail of the Whirlwind Galaxy that wasn’t visible from Earth, and why that was woven into the story.

This thought led me off on another tangent about Max's recently odd behavior....
The FM that we saw was the Max we all know and love, honorable, humorous, and willing to make personal sacrifice for the good of the world. The Max we have seen in the recent episodes doesn't seem like he would be so selfless. Someone mentioned that the mindwarping (read "playing with his thoughts and emotions") perhaps have also been changing his personality. Or... perhaps Tess, in her mindwarping (if that's what this is) is trying to bring back the Max that she knew, who was more autocratic and, dare we say, kingly.

This thought led me off on another tangent about Max's recently odd behavior....
The FM that we saw was the Max we all know and love, honorable, humorous, and willing to make personal sacrifice for the good of the world. The Max we have seen in the recent episodes doesn't seem like he would be so selfless. Someone mentioned that the mindwarping (read "playing with his thoughts and emotions") perhaps have also been changing his personality. Or... perhaps Tess, in her mindwarping (if that's what this is) is trying to bring back the Max that she knew, who was more autocratic and, dare we say, kingly.

This thought led me off on another tangent about Max's recently odd behavior....
The FM that we saw was the Max we all know and love, honorable, humorous, and willing to make personal sacrifice for the good of the world. The Max we have seen in the recent episodes doesn't seem like he would be so selfless. Someone mentioned that the mindwarping (read "playing with his thoughts and emotions") perhaps have also been changing his personality. Or... perhaps Tess, in her mindwarping (if that's what this is) is trying to bring back the Max that she knew, who was more autocratic and, dare we say, kingly.

Therefore, PSAWN is Earth (or another planet in our solar system) in the far, far future.

[/B]

You know I have thought this too.

And thanks Nemo for explaining to us (once again) that it is just an alternate reality. It's so easy to want it to be at least a real possibility.