1. PODS, PODS, EVERYWHERE! Or at least somewhere...we know the location of our four podsters' pods...but what about those other pods? And did you note we were told that there were two sacs with four human fetuses in each? Did we "see" sacs or pods in that shot? And didn't we see at least one that was broken? If so, what came out of it?

And the million dollar question of course is....where are the other four biogengineered folk? For now we have the possbility of EIGHT podsters!!! Of course my daughter immediately wondered if K/L/M/A were the other four...what do you think? Would that undermine the whole alien/human theme we've developed in the show? Maybe we'll spend some episodes trying to track down the other four? Or maybe in Season 3? Do you think they're still around Roswell?

BTW--those two glowing figures...are we to understand that one of them later got caught? Or are those two separate from the two mentioned in The White Room?

2. FOUR COFFINS? Okay--this is bizarre. Our Alien Mythology of the TV Roswell storyline says that four aliens were in the crash--two died and two were alive. But the storyline of UFOlogy's Roswell had a funeral director providing four child sized coffins for the four aliens who died. ????????????????? Is this a snaffu? Did our directors, as they were grabbing a variety of elements from the real world of UFOlogy pick some that clash with our TV storyline?

3. GLOWING ALIENS. Damn if they didn't remind me of some glow in the dark aliens I used to have! A long time ago on this thread we discussed the possibility of our aliens being energy beings (remember Rosta? Elliot?). But when we saw Nesedo/Harding and learned that our podsters were bioengineered, we dropped the idea because neither "glowed" except when utilizing certain powers. Maybe we need to revisit the idea in light of our two glowing aliens in this episode?

4. THE GRANOLITH. Tess asked the question of whether or not the Granolith could "hear" them. That implies that the Granolith is either 1) a listening/recording device or 2) sentient. If "2" then we are in for some interesting developments in the future. How did you interpret that dialogue?

5. POWERS. Hey--now we know that our podsters can not only change the contents of a glass container but also its label as well!!! And Michael can produce fire with a snap (Geesh--kind of devilish didn't you think?)

I've got to say, I thought we'd find more out in this episode than we did, but what we did find out sure does open some new plot lines.

Well folk...what do you think?

LSS

P.S. It's not SF but I loved how Michael got in touch with his human side in this episode...but what about ole' Hal and what he now knows?

PRS

P.S. - if A/K/M/L are the other 4 aliens, i will never watch roswell again or admit i ever did.

And the million dollar question of course is....where are the other four biogengineered folk? For now we have the possibility of EIGHT podsters!!! Of course my daughter immediately wondered if K/L/M/A were the other four...what do you think? Would that undermine the whole alien/human theme we've developed in the show? Maybe we'll spend some episodes trying to track down the other four? Or maybe in Season 3? Do you think they're still around Roswell?

Well I for one believe there will be a Season 3 but I hope they don’t wait until then to reveal who or what where in the other 4 pod squads.

I think your 8 year old is cute in what she thought, but we all know that if M/L/M/A were aliens we’d know it by now don’t you think.

I’m guessing that the 2 sacs per pod would mean that each pod contained a twin of the poddster’s we know and love… which is very possible… why wouldn’t they’re race do everything possible to ensure a successful mission by duplicating everything… including the Royal Four’s essence… maybe that’s one reason there are so many gaps in they’re memories… okay, that’s a stretch but hey, you never know. (keep in mind I’m kind of new to this SF discussion… and he idea of they’re being two Michael walking around is very appealing to me)

quote:Originally posted by LSS:
BTW--those two glowing figures...are we to understand that one of them later got caught? Or are those two separate from the two mentioned in The White Room? [/qutoe]

Well I recognized Nasedo didn’t you?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LSS:
3. GLOWING ALIENS. Damn if they didn't remind me of some glow in the dark aliens I used to have! A long time ago on this thread we discussed the possibility of our aliens being energy beings (remember Rosta? Elliot?). But when we saw Nesedo/Harding and learned that our podsters were bioengineered, we dropped the idea because neither "glowed" except when utilizing certain powers. Maybe we need to revisit the idea in light of our two glowing aliens in this episode?

This part of this episode SO reminded me of that movie Cocoon… remember how they kept they’re pods in the water…

You have to remember that Nasedo said that the Pod Squad was different from him… so the glow in the dark aliens were possible…

quote:Originally posted by LSS:
P.S. It's not SF but I loved how Michael got in touch with his human side in this episode...but what about ole' Hal and what he now knows?

Even though you may not think this part is SF, I think it’s an important part of the SF aspect of this show… the human/ alien side….

This episode is like a beginning to emphasized how important the human side is to the aliens existence… I believe it wasn’t for that guy Hal? All the aliens would have ended up in those coffins and that would have been it…. Michael really needed to learn that, without it, it wouldn’t have been long before he turned into a alien time-bomb… his human side is kind of what keeps him semi-grounded….you know? It also didn’t hurt for him to learn that there were and are a lot of people there for him… they were there even before he was born.

When Tess asked if the Granolith could hear them, I interpreted it sort of as it being a direct link to their home planet where maybe their parents and such could listen to them. I don't think that's what it really is, but that's what I interpreted it as.

My, how their powers have grown! Usually they were changing molecular structure, and now they're conjuring something out of nothing--with the fire, unless you can say that he was changing the elements in the air or whatever it is that makes fire.

Hi ddawn347!

Okay--I think you did this last week and I am just dying to ask...what is BRB?

Pardon me for asking...but I've done some creative guessing none of which makes much sense.

Help?

LSS

First of all, I want to be clear, this episode tugged at every emotion I had. I watch TV because I like to escape into my realities, not to be immersed in them. It's one of the reason why I enjoy science fiction. This episode is the best yet of this season, that is clear. And we do have TWO SHAPESHIFTERS so what happened to TicTac? What happened to the other podsters? The one that was leaking, was that the BRIDE? I think that Tess is now a podster, but an imposter to Max, Isabel, and Michael's sack. Why eight? Why didn't mommogram mention them???? Blue eyes/brown eyes. Tess does not fit with the M/Mi/I. I think that is all pretty clear. Two glowing aliens TicTac and Harding?

I am surprised that LSS you said that ". The rest of this episode is better clasified "Roswell (the TV Series) meets Alien Autopsy (the Movie)" and draws heavily from the real world annals of UFOlogy". The crash site is exactly how it had been described to me when I watch the "Roswell Incident" a few months ago. I even wonder if the producers watched it too. The important point to make about this episode, for those that jeer at the possiblity that Roswell is real in any shape and form, there were an enormus amount of historical tie ins done. This seems to have a legitmate setting in our "real lives".

Also, it seems that this story offers ties in with season one than all the others. Remember the orbs, where they intended one orb for each sack? One orb for each pod squad. If so, then perhaps the other four (three- if one of the pods was lost) were already found and destroyed by the FBI special unit.

How did the aliens get the pods out of the morgue anyway? Do they have the ability to move things like a Star Trek tranporter?

The granolith as sentient. Seems really farfetched, but let's pretend that like the orbs, it can communicate via telepathy. Max's reaction was very interesting, like he knew it was getting something from it. And let's just pretend the telepathy is a real thing. Certain machines (orbs and granoliths) and people can use some sort of biotechnical wave length to send and receive messages. All you need is the right equipment. Geez, that's really scary to believe. But why would Tess say such a weird thing.

I'm ready to rewatch now. I'll get my tissues. I'm going to have a good cry yet.

I loved the fact that there are four more aliens! I loved this episode and also loved seeing Michael's more human side.

Since our storyline has four aliens in the crash then it might mean that originally there were four adults & eight fetuses. Since two adults died in the crash (but were not mentioned in this eppy) then perhaps what you describe is what happen in the wake of the other's deaths?

LSS

My thoughts exactly!!

I was surprised that they were beings of Light. BUt then, Nacedo glowed when they healed him in Destiny -- maybe this was his "natural" state?

What was that gray stuff that dripped out of one of the sacs? Blood? Or some sort of amniotic fluid?

How is it that there were FOUR fetuses to a sac here, but M/Mi/Is/T all get their own pod in the cave? Are they each in their own individual sacs within the giant sac?

I suppose it would be illogical for the Skins to have been the 4 in the other sac. Why send your chosen children off to earth with your deadly enemies? Hmmm. My first reaction was to say Liz/Maria/Alex/Kyle, but I think that's a little too pat, and, besides, those 4 all have human parents who can attest to their "humanness".

This isn't really sci-fi, but was Kyle supposed to be playing his dad or grandfather? Grandfather, I'm guessing, but I didn't know his name was Jim, too...

just a wacked theory.

Hi QFanny!

I did not see the "Roswell Incident" but I did see "Alien Autopsy" and believe me the similarities with this eppy in terms of story elements are astonishing.

I think you and I might differ as to how the events around the real Roswell event should be classified. Like you, I have watched numerous TV shows (and read books) on the real Roswell and the events that took place in the summer of '47. Speculation on this has been classic fare for UFOlogists.
When I said that much of this episode is drawn from the annal of UFOlogy I am trying to distinguish it from "Science Fiction" as a literary genre. Both deal with aliens and space craft, but SF does it from a literary perspective while UFOlogy approaches it from a "reality" perspective.

That is what I was trying to point out. UFOlogy is not technically Science Fiction although it deals with the same topics.

That is why I distinguished in this eppy what is SF (aka our Roswell) from what our writers drew from the broader bag of UFOlogy elements.

LSS

Doesn't TicTac walk with a limp?

At least we know for sure that the pod squad was indeed present in the crash of 47. I remember last season there was speculation as to whether or not they were already on the earth when the ship crashed. Nasedo mentioned that he had escaped to go look for the podsters. Was he one of the glowing aliens?

Here's another question: Why didn't the book of Destiny mention these other 4 aliens? Maybe it's one destiny instruction manual per pod.*lol*

That is what I was trying to point out. UFOlogy is not technically Science Fiction although it deals with the same topics.

That is why I distinguished in this eppy what is SF (aka our Roswell) from what our writers drew from the broader bag of UFOlogy elements.

LSS
I've only seen the Roswell Incident, and that's were my knowledge drops off. When I said historical events, I meant they were using the right people and timelines and supposed reportings and everything. You're right, UFO-ology is different from science fiction.

I will try to rewatch the show with a less emotional attachment, (as if), and bring across more tie-ins to this show to season one.

Very interesting questions as usual. I don't have much time at the moment, but I wanted to touch on something about the glowing aliens. After the episode, bluecornmoon and I had our weekly 10:01 p.m. phone conversation, and she mentioned something that was interesting. Remember SH when Liz' arm GLOWED when Max touched her? (Can't believe I'm asking everybody here if they remembered that. That's like asking, uh, do you know your name?) Anyway, were the glowing aliens just for a special effect for tv land, or was there some significance? And if so, doesn't it give more credence to Liz' being more than human? Would that make her a podster, one of the glowing aliens, a yet undetermined type of alien, or just a human who reacted to Max and/or the orb? If she is a podster, or a partial alien, do the others have the ability to glow under certain circumstances? Perhaps the glow is within all of them, and manifests itself when they use certain powers, such as when Michael stopped the FBI truck in Destiny.

I agree that this episode resolved nothing substantial. It is starting to worry me that we will continue to get more and newer clues each week, and never have any of them explained. I'm still waiting for some resolution from Season One. And I would like to see more continuity and fewer contradictions with the first season. Someone mentioned on one of the spoiler boards (yes, I peeked ONCE) that when Isabel complained of a headache in Surprise, that it was odd that no one questioned her or was concerned about that. In BB, at the hospital when Max was hurt, she said, "We don't get sick." Wouldn't a headache constitute ill health? Shouldn't someone have thought it odd that Is had a headache?

Oh, and surely there will be a Summer of 47 Revisited episode. Afterall, where was Grandma Claudia? I'm still convinced she was there at some point and has more to do with the aliens than we are led to believe. Maybe this was the military's side of the story and later in this season or in a future season, we'll get to see the aliens' side, or River Dog's, or some other human's who may have been present.

Must fly....will return later with more thoughts.

Steff/RemyS

You are right when you say they used a lot of "facts" drawn from the mythology of the real Roswell (and what is fact and myth is anybody's guess).

Actually, I was a bit worried in terms of material for this thread until the last 15 min of the show. As I said before, it was at this point that we departed from the real Roswell mythology and entered the fictive world of our TV storyline.

LSS

Okay--I think you did this last week and I am just dying to ask...what is BRB?

LSS

It means BRB... I do that sometimes to hold a spot on the first page of a thread... and now that I've told you EVERYBODY is going to be doing it.

The last time I did that I re-edited my post, didn't I?

1) glowing hands when healing
2) the "glow" when Max scanned Liz's arm in SH
3) the glowing hand when opening the podster cave
4) the glow that accompanies Michael's killing force
5) the glow that accompanies shapeshifting
6) the glow that let up the door before it was opened in Surprise

Can you think of any more? How might these dovetail with the glowing aliens we saw in the Summer of 47.

LSS

P.S. BTW--I was born in the summer of 47...but no glowing...sorry!

The last time I did that I re-edited my post, didn't I?
[/B]

Yeah you did...but your signature had "Belly Blow Line" and I tried endlessly to connect it with your abbreviation...but came back to BBL instead of BRB. Dumb, I know...!

Thanks!

LSS

First, recall that Max and Isabel's hatching memories are different from Tess's. The pod chamber, etc. are all as Tess remembers. My prediction is that M/Mi/I are from one bunch; and Tess is from the other. Both bunches had to be processed, and installed in incubation pods to ripen & mature. Tess, and 3 others, were in the Pod Chamber. Our 3 podsters are from elsewhere. Tess is smaller than the others because it was her amniotic sac that as leaking.

Oh, did anyone else catch the blooper at the beginning of the show? It's "after" October 25, yet Michael is "already failing less than a month into the semester"?!? How long have they been in school, this semester?

- I agree with RemmyS regarding Grandma Claudia. Remember they were all going to drink/eat at Parker's Bar (I think it was bar but definitely Parker's) so this has got to be THE Parker's as in Liz Parker and her Grandma. So, GC had to be there and possibly witnessed something.

-Depty Valenti - this was obviously Valenti Sr. before he became obsessed alien hunter. Interesting that he was right there at the site.

-Now we know there were 8 pods. Do we know for a fact that that Momogram was meant for our podsters? Maybe it was meant for the other podsters. Who are they and why 8? Are they still alive and out there somewhere? I do not think that A/M/L are the lost Podsters. Maybe one of them is half though...

-I think one of the glowing aliens was Nasedo and I'm not sure who the other one was, maybe Tic-Tac like some of the other people think.

-I was glad to see that Michael melted a little. He finally came to realize that if it wasn't for humans he would not be here.

All in all - great ep!

I have to admit I at this, but I now want to know, does he.

I thought it looked like eight pods when Hal walked into the room. I loved this eppie...the Sci-Fi and relationships were balanced. And anything that softens Michael and crushes the Stonewall a bit has to be good.

My thoughts on the "other 4" ...

Four Skins? But why would they send the enemy on the same ship? Maybe the skins aren't the enemy. Maybe Tess and Nasedo were the enemy.

I have been convinced for quite some time that Tic Tac and Nasedo were two different aliens. Were the two glowing aliens Nasedo and Tic Tac?

HHHMMM??? Loved this eppy!!

First, recall that Max and Isabel's hatching memories are different from Tess's. The pod chamber, etc. are all as Tess remembers. My prediction is that M/Mi/I are from one bunch; and Tess is from the other. Both bunches had to be processed, and installed in incubation pods to ripen & mature. Tess, and 3 others, were in the Pod Chamber. Our 3 podsters are from elsewhere. Tess is smaller than the others because it was her amniotic sac that as leaking.

[/B]

What if Max and Is are from one group of pods and Michael and Tess are from another? That could explain why the pentagon device reacted to Michael and not to Max.(Brody held it in his hands when he was around both of them.)
If they are from separate pods then how can we explain the "book" and Tess and Nasedo? Unless, T&N are really evil aliens who fabricated the whole Destiny-Royal four thing.

Max's recollection of Michael was that they (he and Is) could feel another presence. Then Michael revealed himself on a rock. Max and Is being brother & sister (we assume) knew they had to stay together. Maybe Michael didn't go with them because he felt the others from his pod and he didn't feel safe with out them. Wouldn't that help explain why he has felt so alone for so long?

OKay, it's late I need sleep, but I'm just too over this eppy to go to sleep. A few answers, many more questions, some sci-fi and some M&M action. I :loved: it!!!

Hi Reggie!

VERY Nice!!!! Your theory covers several bases quite nicely!!!

It also brings up several questions:

1) to which group of podsters is our momogram directed?

2) if Tess is from a different group why does Nesedo/Harding called our current four the "Royal Four?"

3) what is the relationship between the individuals in these two groups? Are thee co-equal? Is one subordinate to the other?

LSS

Maybe the other four had nothing but subject sent to guard and train with the The Royal Four.

Has anyone considered the fact that maybe these 8 pod chambers may be the enemy and that the two glowing in the dark creatures may have been there to kill them?

Reggie: Your theory seems solid to me.

I thought it looked like eight pods when Hal walked into the room. I loved this eppie...the Sci-Fi and relationships were balanced. And anything that softens Michael and crushes the Stonewall a bit has to be good.

My thoughts on the "other 4" ...

Four Skins? But why would they send the enemy on the same ship? Maybe the skins aren't the enemy. Maybe Tess and Nasedo were the enemy.

I have been convinced for quite some time that Tic Tac and Nasedo were two different aliens. Were the two glowing aliens Nasedo and Tic Tac?

HHHMMM??? Loved this eppy!!

I like that theroy. What if Tess and Nasedo and the enemy, but then what about what Whitaker said? She said that Isabel pretraded her family. Maybe Isabel is the enemy. Although I like the whole Tess being the enemy better.

quote:Originally posted by LSS:

1. PODS, PODS, EVERYWHERE! Or at least somewhere.
Did we "see" sacs or pods in that shot? And didn't we see at least one that was broken? If so, what came out of it?

Eau de Essence? (to be utilized/exploited by another power??)

quote:And the million dollar question of course is....where are the other four biogengineered folk? For now we have the possbility of EIGHT podsters!!!

The $10 million dollar question is what are 'energy beings', or these glowing beings, doing with humanoid appearing fetuses? Unless the glowing beings are the natural progression (advanced humans) of these fetuses?

And were they leaving with the pods? Returning with the pods? RESCUING the pods?

If the pods were successfully rescued, did the military use the 'pan drippings' in their own experiments.

This might support two thoughts I've had: that M/M/I are recipients of the 'essence' once removed from the originals. Perhaps Tess was the sole survivor of a set of 4 (?possibly from another time, place, age); M/M/I are the survivors of another 4 set.

As to appearance, we are at the mercy of Capt. Carver's recollection. At a certain stage of fetal development, it may not be easy to distinguish

We do not know the 'age', chronology, or history of the beings or pods on this planet.

And was the crash partially a cover or exploited as a cover?

quote: Of course my daughter immediately wondered if K/L/M/A were the other four...what do you think?
...are we to understand that one of them later got caught?
Or are those two separate from the two mentioned in The White Room?

I have a hard time believing that any beings such as these (as least in this form) would be captured in the WR.

I recall the 'energy beings' discussion (as I fondly recall those 'old times' at the Crashdown! I don't think we gave up the idea as much as considered the possibilities of what was sacrified to remain on this planet and/or take on a corporeal form?

My feeling was that this would be a 'stand alone' ep with the events occurring 'in parallel', rather in a series, with or our Roswell , and subject to one man's recollections. I didn't expect any revelations, but I was quite surprised by the depth of relationship and personal progression.

Rosta~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~

PS- LSS, seeing Michael and Maria together like that made me think you daughter may be close to where they want to go with this. I tend to think that there is something very deliberate about the Roswell of the series. Including the placement of the kids (ie, with the Evans).

Lorrilei, Maybe they don't glow when they're dead.

Reggie, good point on the different hatching memories. Maybe only four podsters made it out of 8: 3 from one batch, 1 from another. Maybe the leaking ones were injured in the crash and didn't make it at all.

Or maybe there really are 2 Maxes. Palomino, remember the 'stable' joke?

The $1000 question in my mind: Did Hal's lover get pregnant? And if so, would the child be honored by the aliens?

Oh, and I keep thinking of Hal, the computer.

So it appears that Michael at last really has a father figure that will be just his alone and that he can apprecitate in a life-giving way.

Qfanny: You were wondering (as am I) how the pods wound up in the cave and in the four separate pods, as opposed to one pod with four fetuses inside. *Reggie* already expressed my view--the pods have to be processed and from the one pod with four fetuses you get one pod for each fetus. Unfortunately, we still don't know how they got to the pod cave. I like the Star Trek beaming theory.

ddawn347: You thought (as I do) that the other pod with four fetuses contained clones of the pod squad. My guess is that, for whatever reason, the home planet aliens made two copies--just in case one set died. I hope that the other four are not Alex, Kyle, Liz, and Tess (strangely enought, that thought never occurred to me until I read about it here).

I'm guessing the two glowing aliens are Nasedo and the one that Pierce said they captured.

As others have mentioned, this whole episode assumes Hal is telling what "really" happened. At least the 'funny-metal-that- reassumes-its-flat-shape-even-if-you- crumple-it' part of his story is "real."

Good night.

First let me say that I loved this eppy.

Picky, picky, picky....
1) Secure Telephones do NOT look like regular phones, and they do not operate that way. That's all I'm comfortable saying.
2) That is NOT the way that you handle or mark documents that contain "sensitive" information. If things were so hush-hush, documents would be labeled with something other than "CONFIDENTIAL". Again that's about all I'm confortable saying.

Okay, now for the math.....

I've broken the pod squads mission into 3 separate phases and assigned a probability of success (reliability) to each phase. Phase A is the delivery of the pods to earth, I've given this a reliability of 0.25 (1 in 4), given that there was a crash. Phase B is the hatching, growth and maturation of the poddies, I've given this a value of 0.9 (90%), WAG. The last phase is defeating the skins. I've given this a value of 0.9 also. Since each of these things must occur in sequence for the mission to be a success the probability of success for the mission is (0.25)*(0.9)*(0.9) = 0.2 (20%).

To improve this I simply add an second, independent, redundant system (4 more poddies). The second system has the same 20% chance of success. For a system with a complete set of backups, the reliability is 1 - (1-0.2)(1-0.2) = 0.36. Thats and 80% increase in the chances of saving the planet. Since saving the planet is a high value mission, the cost of duplicating the poddies is insignificant. As far as who is the "legitimate" King, that's an interesting moral question, but we'll worry about that after we save the planet.

I was watching an old episode yesterday and it touched on this whole "Liz-might-be-alien" thing, so I figured here was as good a time to share it.

The first time Max and Liz went to the reservation to meet Eddy, then Riverdog, they were showed the symbols and then when they were leaving, Riverdog said to Liz, "You are not one of them. Make sure he is worthy of your trust." or something to that effect.

That leads me, personally, to believe that there's no way Liz is an alien. I mean, besides the fact that as far as we know, she has two human birth parents whom she's lived with all her life. Possibly, she could be not of THEM, but of another race of aliens, which I don't think is likely.

Also, as far as we know, when Max and Tess....er....for lack of better term...went at it...no glowyness was left on Tess, which brings two theories: that, as people like to believe, Liz is the rightful alien bride of Max and that's why her skin reacted and not Tess', or that the intensity of their emotion combined with alien/human touching resulted in the glowig hickeys/etc. Yes, the other couples did not have that, but at the time of that episode, neither of the others were as involved as Max and Liz.

I'm not sure why everyone thinks Grandma Claudia has something to do with the aliens, or because of her Liz is an alien. I don't get that at all. Even if the Parker's bar in the episode DID have Grandma Claudia there, Liz did note in the pilot that four generations of her family were from Roswell, so that might not mean anything. Of course, that could've been said solely for the purpose of the trick on the tourists.

Tess not being one of them: People are so determined to make that girl evil, aren't they? lol. I agree with whoever said that perhaps the fluid leaking from the sac is why Tess is smaller than the others; of course the other theory is that Emilie de Ravin was the right actress for the part and she happened to be short.

If the book she showed the other three was indeed true, then she was engineered to look the way she does, which would rule out any "she has blue eyes, they have brown" theories. Not that we can SEE color in the book, though...

I believe she IS the rightful Fourth. She knows more than the others because she's grown up with Nasedo all those years. The other podsters are getting stronger all the time. She just adapted more quickly because she was more aware of what she could do.

Sorry if I'm bouncing around here; it's late and I'm tired and can't sleep and have a million thoughts. None of which make sense.

LET me FIRST say, Brendan did one hell of a job with this role! I was so awe struck by his performance, I had to watch the tape again, to pay more attention to the details :-)
This episode was fantastic, very well done in my opinion...a few little gitchs..but not enough to be distracting.

First, I read in another post about the coffins? I saw 8..I figured immediately, they were for the fetus', I assume the government was going to terminate them.
There wasn't 8 adult aliens, not in any of the story lines that I remember...so it had to be for the babies.
Makes my skin crawl to think of it, but I believe that's what they were trying to convey.

2nd. I notice the beer bottle thing, thought it was funny...making beer is one thing, making the label appear quite the feat!! LOL

I thought making the thumb on fire..was a bit much! :-) sort of corny..but I can't off hand think of another way to identify himself, unless he made beer in front of Hal :-)

I don't understand were Betty got the key? Did I miss something there?
That seemed to be a loose end to me...

I've read about everything ever written on the Roswell crash, and all the movies and programs on TV..and they stayed true to the majority of it..except for the aliens glowing and the pods...as it were...the basic facts were right on with all I've read.
And the request was for 4 coffins, child size, IF I remember correctly, but they had to stay with the story...hense the 8.

OVER all, one of the best thus far..next weeks looks SO serious and sad :-(
I loved the kinder, gentler Michael!! good job!

After the momogram, he shapeshifted into Pierce and went to Washington. Perhaps he was in cahoots with CW Whitaker the entire summer, formulating plans with her to do *some* kind of evil to the Podsters. And after all, we don't know who exactly killed Nasedo. It may not have been Whitaker or Courtney. Plus the fact Nasedo seemed so clueless. You would think he would have to know an awful lot about the Podsters, their powers, and enemies in order to protect them properly. Or maybe, CW Whitaker really did kill Nasedo, and that's why he came to Max to warn him before he died, having been betrayed.

And, there has been a question about Nasedo that has been nagging at me since the end of 'Skin and Bones', so forgive me if its been brought up already. Max opened his window, and Nasedo was 'thrown' at Max, it appears. I think someone else knocked on his window and threw him towards Max. So who? I would really love some theories on that.

SisofNight

I don't have a lot to say about the sci-fi, except that I hope there isn't another set of aliens still alive on Earth. Wouldn't that destroy the entire concept of this show if that were true? MM&I would no longer be special... I mean, they're already becoming just a few of the many aliens scattered about Earth, but if we find out that there are others just like them, what happens then? Are they part of the royalty too? Are they out leading normal human lives or have they been fighting evil aliens forever? Are we ever going to see Roswell be about human emotions again?

Having the leaking, possibly dead fetus being Max's wife leaves open the possibility of no woman to get in the way of Max and Liz..

It will all come out...

I believe the 2 adult alien were Tic-Tac and Nacedo..

just a quick thought... it makes sense that the number of pods created was done in order to prevent a total loss if something went wrong. and that given the crisis after the crash that the shapeshifters might mix and match what's left of the pods in order to salvage the original plan?

also: perhaps the glowing aliens don't always glow...maybe just when they are experiencing stressful situations, or engrossed in certain tasks?

about the granolith: does anyone recall the staturday night live spoof commercial "it's a floor wax, it's a desert topping" ? it seems that the granolith has multiple capacities and uses. is it essential (pardon the pun) in mixing disparate biological material? it's a way to communicate and travel over long distances/dimensions? and is it possible that there are more then one granolith? perhaps they are a bit like subway stations to the stars? or more like a swiss army knife?

jenlev

I don't understand were Betty got the key? Did I miss something there?
That seemed to be a loose end to me...

***I assumed the key and note came from Doty, that he felt remorse for betraying Hal and was uncomfortable with his part in the coverup. Perhaps Doty discovered that Betty had been killed by the military, and this was his way of redemption.

Steff/RemyS

Unless they were already boxed up before Hal & Ritchie hit the scene, I didn't see anything in the wreckage that looked like the granolith or the orbs (although the orbs may have been too small to make out). Also, if there were already fetuses in the sacs (that appeared to be human?), doesn't that confirm that there had to have been other contact--either prior to get the human DNA & set up the granolith (or if they got the DNA sequence from SETI-like transmissions, possibly later to set up the granolith).

How does this fit w/what we learned about the crash last season? Nacedo/Harding said that he escaped from the underground facility in White Room. The facility last night was not the same one. Is it safe to assume that he was captured after Hal's diversion and then taken to the WR, while the other energy being was able to escape? Was Nacedo/Harding then captured (the next day?) after burying the orb or was that the other energy being? someone else? If they split up, each with one sac, maybe Nacedo/Harding was able to hide it before being captured and then returned to it after being captured (would a leaking sac survive that long or did the other being save the leaking one). If Tess is from a different sac & fed M/M/I fake hatching memories (two big ifs), this could explain why Nacedo was able to hook up w/Tess long before finding M/M/I. How does any of this fit with the death of Hubble's wife?

Was the glowing thing in the back of the truck one of the sacs? If not, what was it?

If they were fetuses already in 1947 and have aged normally since hatching, why did it take 50 years to go from fetus to approx. 6 yrs old?

Pierce's litany of dead bodies started well after 1947. Did he know about the two soldiers that were killed?

Was Ritchie one of the dead people in the room w/the sacs and the energy beings? (I thought the reflection we saw of one of the bodies looked like him.)

I guess I assumed that Betty got the key from the nurse.

First, I read in another post about the coffins? I saw 8..I figured immediately, they were for the fetus', I assume the government was going to terminate them.

I wonder. What you saw as 8 I saw as four bottoms with 4 tops/covers. But then, I might have been influenced by what I know of the real Roswell incident's mythology (that there were four children's coffins ordered for the four alien bodies recovered). If what we saw was really 8 coffin bottoms with no tops then the implication is that they were for the fetuses but not the adults.

That does raises some questions, however, since the sacs/pods are still alive (pulsating with life). And wouldn't be in the government's best interests to keep some of them alive for information purposes?

BTW--hard to think that such a room wouldn't be under guard isn't it?

And who killed those medical personnel? The glowing beings? Then why let Hal/Michael go?

And what was the function of the medical personnel in that room? To monitor the pods? Or was it for something more sinister as you suggest?

Remember I mentioned the Alien Autoposy movie that this eppy drew from? Is that room the analogue to the autopsy room in this eppy?

quote:
There wasn't 8 adult aliens, not in any of the story lines that I remember...so it had to be for the babies.

If those were 8 coffin bottoms instead of 4 tops with their lids, then yes you are correct.

quote:[2nd. I notice the beer bottle thing, thought it was funny...making beer is one thing, making the label appear quite the feat!!

Yeah, our podsters' powers are growing by leaps and bounds--at least Michael's powers are! [BTW...all of you who are still in school...see what a little practice and study does? Maybe we ought to get Michael's pic on some educational posters! Of course he's not doing too well in school right now...but with several worlds to save who can blame him?]

quote:I thought making the thumb on fire..was a bit much! :-) sort of corny..but I can't off hand think of another way to identify himself, unless he made beer in front of Hal :-)

You know, I have mixed feelings about that. I wouldn't have if that action wasn't a classic one for satanic figures in literature. But for the life of me it doesn't make sense for it to be a bad move since it is set in the context of Michael appreciating for once humankind (never mind it was that same humankind that was threatening the pods/sacs to begin with). I guess I just have to stick to it being a nice gesture without any other implications!

quote:[B]I've read about everything ever written on the Roswell crash, and all the movies and programs on TV..and they stayed true to the majority of it..except for the aliens glowing and the pods...as it were...the basic facts were right on with all I've read.
/B]

You are absolutely right. As I watch Roswell I take notes to begin this thread after the episode concludes (my teens tease me unmercifully about this...they say that I find a way to work even when playing). I kept thinking...what am I going to use to start this thread...This is almost all Roswell mythology. But then those last 15 min came and we were back into a SF adaption of the Roswell event.

LSS

1. The leaking pod could have been several things.

a. The bride's pod. This would explain why Tess was late in hatching.
Maybe the bride died (it looked like the one pod had been opened, and how could Hal have seen a human fetus without one being opened?), and Tess was a redone bride, but without the essence, which had died.
b. What if this was a pod for the other four? Could they have been set to hatch much ealier so they could also act as guardians to the royal four? Could Tic-tac be the damaged podster (limp) from the older set? c. Were they decoys? More neccessary personelle for the good fight?

Got to run, will continue.

Steff/RemyS

Nice to see you!

quote:Originally posted by JanetMG:
Just a few questions/comments. I thought that early in the ep when he was trying to get Michael interested in his story, Hal (like the nurse did later) said something about the aliens having black eyes. The energy beings didn't seem to have eyes. Did I miss something, mishear or does Hal know more? Was he just using the nurse's description rather than describing what he saw? Is what the nurse saw what they look like when they die? Her description sounded more like a body with internal organs than the dusty mess Nacedo/Harding turned into.

You are right about the eyes...and remember the picture that Hal drew from Rosie's description?

BTW--what did you think of Rosie's comment that these beings weren't mammals? I thought it rather odd.

Good catch about those bodies. It is hard to autopsy a pile of dust isn't it?

quote:Unless they were already boxed up before Hal & Ritchie hit the scene, I didn't see anything in the wreckage that looked like the granolith or the orbs (although the orbs may have been too small to make out). Also, if there were already fetuses in the sacs (that appeared to be human?), doesn't that confirm that there had to have been other contact--either prior to get the human DNA & set up the granolith (or if they got the DNA sequence from SETI-like transmissions, possibly later to set up the granolith).

VERY nice observations JanetMG!!! Prior to this we had discussed the point of origin of those pods and whether or not people like Hubble's wife had been killed for her DNA. But you are right--this implies that there the bioengineering took place on their home planet....that is IF the pods were recovered from the crash site. Doesn't it seem odd that a crash that destroyed the craft so thoroughly wouldn't really squish those pulsating sacs? Nevertheless, I do think that we are meant to believe the pods were in the crash.

quote:How does this fit w/what we learned about the crash last season? Nacedo/Harding said that he escaped from the underground facility in White Room. The facility last night was not the same one. Is it safe to assume that he was captured after Hal's diversion and then taken to the WR, while the other energy being was able to escape? Was Nacedo/Harding then captured (the next day?) after burying the orb or was that the other energy being? someone else? If they split up, each with one sac, maybe Nacedo/Harding was able to hide it before being captured and then returned to it after being captured (would a leaking sac survive that long or did the other being save the leaking one). If Tess is from a different sac & fed M/M/I fake hatching memories (two big ifs), this could explain why Nacedo was able to hook up w/Tess long before finding M/M/I. How does any of this fit with the death of Hubble's wife?

I think (perhaps)the installation in White Room is meant to be an analog of Area 51. According to UFOlogy...Area 51 is where the remains of the Roswell Crash ultimately ended up.

quote:Pierce's litany of dead bodies started well after 1947. Did he know about the two soldiers that were killed?

I love it. JanetMG you are a woman after my own heart!!! Truthfully, I think our writers simply took over the Roswell mythology in this eppy and tried to shape our TV show around it. And I think that, given this reality, there are rough "seams" where the two do not quite "fit." You know, I think that folk on this thread will ultimately do a better job of dovetailing the two better than our writers did. Why? Because we have a vested interest in cleaning up those seams!!!

As always it is a real pleasure to read your posts and observations. You and I share the same methodology approach to Roswell.

LSS

Steff/RemyS

Hi Steff!

The point I was trying to make is that the finger tip/ciggie motion is a classic motif of a certain characterization (satanic). You do not get the same "feel" with a waved hand.

LSS

I'm new here and love all your ideas! I have some questions/observations and would love your feedback.

1) The podster's book shows pics of the four of them in the back. So if there are four more podsters (eight total sent to earth and assuming they were all meant to survive - these plans being thwarted by the crash) shouldn't they be in the book too - or at least be mentioned? Would they have their own book if they were in a different sac? I just find it odd that Nascedo and/or Momogram would have left them in the dark on this. Which brings me to...

2) Something that's always bothered me... Momogram seemed like a projection of a pre-recorded message (a la Star Wars when Princess Leia appears through R2-D2) so how does she know she was talking to the right people? And know what order they were standing in? And since she has (presumably)no contact with Earth, she wouldn't know the the four 'new' podsters aren't with the "Royal Four". So if the 'new' four are supposed to be there why didn't she mention them?

3) In season one we saw Nascedo at one point (being healed or healing himself? Can't remember...) and the outline of an alien form appeared in the Harding body. This week we see two glowing aliens. Obviously this is Nascedo's natural form. But when he died he just disintegrated. Wouldn't he revert to his natural form first? I'm assuming it takes some sort of energy to shapeshift and hold a 'non-natural' form??

It's all highly confusing... anyone got a computer program to keep track of all this stuff??

Could she be the nurse who disappeared?

LSS wrote: VERY nice observations JanetMG!!! Prior to this we had discussed the point of origin of those pods and whether or not people like Hubble's wife had been killed for her DNA. But you are right--this implies that there the bioengineering took place on their home planet....that is IF the pods were recovered from the crash site. Doesn't it seem odd that a crash that destroyed the craft so thoroughly wouldn't really squish those pulsating sacs? Nevertheless, I do think that we are meant to believe the pods were in the crash.

***I have had a theory since the first season that Tess is NOT the fourth podster, but a creation by Nacedo (who used Hubble's wife's unborn child as the DNA donor -- why would he kill an innocent pregnant women otherwise?) to replace the intended bride, who either died or was damaged in the crash, (leaking pod). Imagine my interest when they showed what appeared to be a leaking/damaged pod in this latest eppy! It could have been at this point that Grandma Claudia or her daughter-in-law came into play as a receptacle for the fetus in order to keep it alive. The fetus could have been kept alive by other means (test tube, other incubation means, whatever) until the time was right for implantation into Nancy's womb, so that it would be born in a time frame consistent with the other 3 podsters. And Nacedo might not have been aware of the "saving" of the bride, until much later. When he became aware of Liz, (Pilot -- was that Nacedo who said, "We have to get rid of her"?) he began his plans for her demise, so that his protegee Tess could be palmed off as Max' intended. Afterall, Harding/Nacedo showed more interest in Liz than the other humans from the start (at his home, the kidnapping, etc.). And his uttering to Max in the pod chamber in Destiny, "She doesn't belong here", was full of venom and a touch of fear, as though she was continuing to be a "wrench in the machinery" and that his own creation might be discovered. Max and Liz recognizing each other at the age of 8 has to have more significance to it than just "love at first sight". Age 8 hardly seems the age to be smitten by the love bug with that kind of intensity. I do believe in fate and destiny, only that it belongs to Max and Liz. Or am I just wishing it so much that I have created my own scenarios to fit for the sake of this Dreamgirl's heart? Help me, LSS, to be objective!!!!!!!!

Steff/RemyS

When we saw the two glowing aliens, they were... well... aliens. But when they showed the dead soldiers on the ground, they had silver HUMAN handprints on their chests.

Huh?

Obviously at some point, the fetuses were removed from the sacs and put into the incubation pods. These sacs seemed more organic than mechanical, and the pods more mechanical than organic. Were the sacs to mature then to viable baby stage and the pods were to incubate/hardwire them slowly to another stage? What if the sacs had to mature the fetuses to a further point than the injured sac was capable of? One set of four may have been put into the incubation pods earlier than planned. They may be a different age than the other sac.

If the other sac is older(on time, or early), then they may be adults already in Roswell (why aren't they helping?), or yet to come to town (just how far were the two aliens capable of taking the clump?)

If the timing of "our" set of podsters was late because of the injured sac, then how does this affect the aliens' plans? Could it not matter at all because of time-travel ability? Should they have "hatched in the seventies?

{Actually, I don't buy this, because last season they realized the "awakening" was tied to the constellations alining. Either our four podsters were on time, or the aliens had to set the incubators for the next time the constellations alined, in which case, there seems to be religious or at least symbolic meaning in what they are trying to accomplish.)

Also, Mix and Matching podsters :

The book from the library had the podsters' pictures in, and they were even in the correct incubation placements. This would look like the podsters we already have met, belong together as a set. This makes it look like our set is the original. (I still have a problem with the symbol on the front being one that I take to be a symbol for the enemy.

Truck hitting the one alien.
1. I laughed (sorry) and immediately thought this was why Tic-tac limped.
2. I think the one alien did this so that he or his commrad could hop in the back as "debris", and this is how they knew exactly where to find the pods. The military probably unloaded him too, never knowing it was an alien who would go roaming when they turned their backs.

Aliens in the 7354 Building :
1. Cute little buggers, BUT NOT THE ALIEN HEAD, OR EYES WE SAW IN MAX'S FLASHBACKS, even without the glow.
2. I was a little misty-eyed thinking one of them was our own dear Nasedo (sniffle). And to think just a few short months ago, we didn't trust him.
3. Too bad Carver was just a matter of weeks too late for a more meaningful reunion.
4. Bioluminescent aliens. Hmmm ... Almost angelic looking. Is this the same silvery glow that is left on the bodies? ("touched by an angel"?) Maybe this bioluminescence is not a continuous state when in their natural form. If they are bioluminescent all the time, then they might have a hard time not doing it when shifted into human form. Maybe they were glowing because they were upset and "charged" - ready to disipate energy at anyone that threatened them or the pods? Same infront of the truck. Did anyone else notice they cast a shadow until they stepped out to confront Hal?

Two sets of four.
1. This does explain why the season promos had two of the curly 4-sq symbols (As my prediction )
2. It would have been wise to make duplicates, but if the aliens do put some kind of religious or symbolic value on Max, they might not have been willing to duplicate him, or the whole other pod was full of Maxs, (Maxes, Maxi, whatever). Yes Shapeshifter, I do remember my suggestion from months ago of what to do with the extra Maxes after the war - STUD FARM!
3. If one of the adult aliens (or both) had managed to be with the other podsters when they hatched, are they better educated and trained than ours? Do they know about the other set? If Harding had kept them up to date and kept checking in, will the others realize Harding is dead and come running to the rescue? Are they going to stay on the outside and watch? Is Grant one? Is Jeffrey Parker one? Did Nasedo meet GC on the reservation in the fifties when he was staying there, and deside to entrust a little hatchling to her? Is Philip Evans one, and that little drive in the desert to "accidentally" find them a deliberate one?
4. Personally, I think Shiela Hubble's death and pregnancy were a convenient motive for her husband to go after Max with crazed homocidal intent. But ... for those who think she had a greater role ... How about if she was from the other set of pods, and was turning her back on the cause, or even switching sides? What if Nasedo had to kill her to keep the younger set from being exposed by her? What if she was the real Valandra? OK, that was going too far.

Next week's promo :

Ick, I hope that future Max was in disguise, because to think that our hereo would look disgusting on purpose is depressing. (OK, don't lambaste me - it was just an opinion. I like clean-cut.)

Anyhow, if Max comes back to break up M/L, then it must be for a good reason, like the cause is lost or they all die if he choses her permanently. It made me wonder if maybe this was Tic-tac or another shapeshifter come to set destiny straight before the M/L affair screws up their plans irrepairably. What better way to fix things than have the poor girl send him away herself. What better way to trick her into doing this than pretending to be Max from the future? "My home planet was destroyed; Michael, Isabel and Tess were eaten by Skins, all our friends were tortured to death, and our monsterously deformed kids lived short painfull lives." I think that would convince me. If future Max limps, pops tic-tacs, or otherwise acts suspiciously, I will be watching for it.
Also ; What if M/L actually helps the cause in the future? What if it is the Skins who don't want them together, and it is an imposter they send to trick Liz?

LIZ HAD BETTER KISS FUTURE MAX TO GET SOME INSIGHTFUL FLASHES!!!

A creepy idea : What if future Max really is Max, but Max has come back quietly before to help them? What if he was/will be Tic-tac? Are the podsters going to develop the ability to shapeshift? Could that be why T-t was smiling at the sleeping couple? Could it be that he was saving Michael from Hank killing him(ID), and Pierce capturing him (Crazy)? Did he save Michael from Pierce's tortures because he was willing to take his place, or because Michael would have given away more info and it would have turned out alot worse? Hmmmm ... well that was wierd. Forget it.

Maybe future Max actually came back to help the M/L relationship
What if M/L got together now, and Tess gave up on a relationship with Max, turning to the other side (Skins. Also she may have been Valandra.) It may screw up any happiness M/L could have had together.
If Max and Liz are broken up, maybe Tess will feel there is hope for her taking her rightful place by Max's side, and continue in her loyalty to Max and the cause. Maybe this loyalty will get her killed in a wonderfully heroic death scene, and M/L will saddly attend her modest, but tastefully done funeral. Afterwards, Liz could comfort Max, and their eyes could lock over Cherry Cokes.(sigh)

Well, got to go again.

P.S. I just noticed people taking the Nasedo/dust and alien autosy info as contradictory. I am taking it that they normally leave a body, but tha the Skins have a weapon that not only permanently kills by perhaps breaking down the body (like radiation, hemotoxic snake venom, etc.), but also disintegrates the body. maybe Harding bleeding from the mouth and nose were symptoms of the breakdown affecting his blood vessels?

When we saw the two glowing aliens, they were... well... aliens. But when they showed the dead soldiers on the ground, they had silver HUMAN handprints on their chests.

Huh?

Hi Liz!

Welcome to the SF of [Episode] threads as a poster!

You are right in your observation. One way we can expain those deaths is to hypothesize that those aliens were shapesifters (like Harding) and had "shifted" into human form (perhaps to gain entry to the facility), killed the medical personnel, and then "shifted" back to their original forms. This, of course, raises the questions of why didn't they simply KEEP their human forms for safety's sake.

One might suggest that they needed to do something that could only be done in their alien shapes...but what exactly that is,is anyone's guess!

OR

We could argue that the killers were not the same as those two aliens...and if you go that route it opens you to a host of storyline possibilities doesn't it?

Good observation!

LSS

Another point to add to Liz's handprint observation. When Michael (Carver) is recounting the deaths of the 2 privates to "Betty", he says there were two bright figures, and then a blinding flash (or something like that). Does this mean the aliens were imprinting the killer handprints from a distance? Otherwise, we've seen no evidence that handprint-imprinting involves any light.

quote:Originally posted by Palomino:
Obviously at some point, the fetuses were removed from the sacs and put into the incubation pods. These sacs seemed more organic than mechanical, and the pods more mechanical than organic.

Do you think so? I've always thought the pods looked organic...remember the goo when the kids came out...kind of like amniotic (sp?) fluid.

quote:Next week's promo :
Anyhow, if Max comes back to break up M/L, then it must be for a good reason, like the cause is lost or they all die if he choses her permanently.

Okay--now that we are entering the world of time travel there are a host of paradoxes possible. I think I'll wait until the next thread to discuss it fully but let me just mention a few of the possibilities:

For example, let's take what we know now and speculate. What if:

1) Max's intervention causes a split in the time stream (parallel worlds) so that the initial trip causes a ripple and a number of different Roswells emerge? In some Liz kills Tess, in others Liz fails and Tess kills her, etc. And what if these streams ever collide or interface?

2) Having Future Max in the same time frame as present Max has ramifications for Max's health and sanity?

3) The future world produced by Max's interference is WORSE than the one he was trying to avoid?

4) What if Future Max (in a moment of passion) has sex with Present Liz and gets her preggie...this would be a great plot for "As Roswell Turns" a SF Soap Opera!(just kidding with this option folks--don't take me seriously).

5) Future Max can't get back because his interference has caused such a change in the future that time travel is no longer possible?

And so on...the options (as I said) are legion.

quote: P.S. I just noticed people taking the Nasedo/dust and alien autosy info as contradictory. I am taking it that they normally leave a body, but tha the Skins have a weapon that not only permanently kills by perhaps breaking down the body (like radiation, hemotoxic snake venom, etc.), but also disintegrates the body. maybe Harding bleeding from the mouth and nose were symptoms of the breakdown affecting his blood vessels?

Nice. I like that solution and it would solve the problem logically. Good suggeston!

LSS

No but shapeshifting does! What if what is being described is a shifting scene (aka into human form so that the hand print is possible)?

LSS

About my wierd idea that Max from the future is really a shapeshifter here to put alien destiny back on track : How much more rejection can Max take? What would losing a bonded mate do to Max? (Max's love for Liz seems like some kind of an alien bonded-mate thing, but the SSers and other podsters seem to be unaware of it, and Liz is probably incapable of feeling the same way about Max since she is not alien - I hope.) What if this fake/future Max drives poor Max insane or to the point of suicide? That would screw up destiny too. Imagine having to explain that to an underground high command or exiled government. "Ummm ... yes, the King was OK till we tore his bonded mate from him, then He sort of turned into mush, and now he's Valenti Sr.'s roommate."
At what point do they have to back off the destiny plan(Tess's part) to keep their king functional and cooperative?

If the show really is what the promos say, and it really is Max from the future trying to break up the M/L relationship, this would affect him as well, and might have an even worse outcome. Were things in the future so bad that there was nothing to lose?

Hi roswelllvr!

I'd forgotten that but I remember thinking the same thing when I saw that frame. Not the kind of reaction you'd expect. And "zombies" does describe their wooden movement and lack of reaction. Well done! Thanks for bringing that to our attention.

LSS

This one of the biggest puzzlers for me. Pierce told Max in WR that they found 4 aliens. Two dead, 2 captured. One escaped(Nasedo). If the glowing aliens were Nasedo and the other live one, how did Nasedo escape with the pods and sacs while the other didn't and why didn't he tell Max and company about the others. Or were the glowing aliens 2 others from the crash who hadn't been caught and are still out there somewhere? That they were the ones who got the pods out of there and hid them and somehow Nasedo found the one chamber but didn't know if the others survived?

As far as the coffins go I sort of thought they were for the fetus'.

P.S. In the real Roswell crash, there were actually two crash sites - one out in the open (totally smashed), the other a few miles away in more rugged terrain, with more of the ship intact, and with survivors. At least that is what two sources claim. If this was true, then maybe the adults and sacs were from the second site. BTW, there were civilians working on a dig near the second site who reportedly found it. (GC?)

What if our glowing aliens were sent to deliver "the goods", but not necesarily to stay. Their alien bodies may not be able to withstand earths atmosphere.
As for the two pods w/four sacs each, maybe one sac contained the protecters, Nacedo, ect. Created with the ability to shapeshift, this would be smart.
The other pod containing our royal four, of them three "broke out" early. What if they were supposed to remain in the pods longer, afterall they would be too vulnerable as children. Maybe they were supposed to remain in the pods until they were older, but somehow the equipment malfunctioned. Tess may have been in longer, thus her ability to remember more than the rest.
Each member of the royalty would have a protecter, but once again the crash caused some problems. Maybe Nacedo was Tess's and he only broke out of the pod when she did, then he found out that they other protecters had died. And three of the royalty were now "lost" and needed to be found.
If the podsters could be engineered, why not the protectors as well.

Just a thought I had...thanks for letting me share it!!

~Sheri

BTW, if you research the real Roswell incident you will find that is where they got most of the story. The have melted teh real accounts with our story. Thus, little things like the accounts of glowing beings, descriptions of their eyes, and the coffins. (ect, ect)

Lora

I was really shocked that Michael revealed himself to Hal in the end of the show. How did Michael know that Hal wasn't a shapeshifter or skin? So far we haven't seen any evidence that the podsters can spot a skin or a shapesshifter even if they are standing in front of them spinning a story. It would be just like TicTac to take an interest in Michael and try to get him back on track....

I really loved seeing all the actors get to play different characters but thought the writers must have chosen the '47 characters for a reason. Max as a betrayer anyone? Isobel as a "loose" woman? It is very interesting to see the show on two levels. The story elements emphasizing the "UFOlogy" as LSS put it, of the real Roswell history vs. how that story plays out about how Michael sees his friends and lovers in this time. Very, very interesting.

I noticed that Michael's hand didn't seem to glow much when he smashed the bottles- a sign he is getting better at controlling his powers? Tess' training must be working. This assumes that my theory that the light is an avoidable waste of energy is true.

The main question is of course the second set of 4 Aliens. I do not believe they are the Roswell humans- the human/alien interaction is at the heart of the show and we've learned too much not too know by now.

They may be clones (in which case why does it matter if Tess is from the other set?) which would make a lot of sense for redundancy, and perhaps mean there is another M/M/I and maybe even another Tess out there. The protector theory also makes some sense, but then what were the adult aliens sent to do? I think that the protectors were alive at the time of arrival on Earth.

The clones could be physically identical. Their upbringing may be very different (raised by an Alien shapeshifter like Tess) and so they may not have a common outlook with our Podsters at all. A meeting could be very interesting.

As to Max from the future- maybe real, maybe a shapeshifter (from the present) on a complicated plot to get Max to follow his Destiny. That's fine as long as he leaves Alex and Izzy alone! (Just kidding Dreamers!)

It also brings up several questions:

1) to which group of podsters is our momogram directed?

2) if Tess is from a different group why does Nesedo/Harding called our current four the "Royal Four?"

3) what is the relationship between the individuals in these two groups? Are thee co-equal? Is one subordinate to the other?

LSS

Thank you! I hope "Maxcedo" has noted it in the Book of I Told You So.s.

1. Well, if the machinery to play the message is installed in the Pod Chamber, I'd say that it's for the set that hatched there. Which, BTW, relieves everyone except Tess of their Destiny. (ROTFL)

2. Nasedo (Harding) is inscrutable, to the point of being unintelligible. Who knows?

3. Insufficient data for meaningful response. For all we know, all four were "royalty" (I'm still thinking Buddist priesthood), but were not incubated in the same pod chamber. Or maybe they accidentally switched the two sets, and our 3 should have been in this pod chamber; and Tess not?

Which would mean that there was a Queen for Max, but something happened to her (leaked to death?), and Tess has been raised as a substitute? Like in Boys from Brazil?

They may be clones (in which case why does it matter if Tess is from the other set?) which would make a lot of sense for redundancy, and perhaps mean there is another M/M/I and maybe even another Tess out there. The protector theory also makes some sense, but then what were the adult aliens sent to do? I think that the protectors were alive at the time of arrival on Earth.

The clones could be physically identical. Their upbringing may be very different (raised by an Alien shapeshifter like Tess) and so they may not have a common outlook with our Podsters at all. A meeting could be very interesting.

[/B]

I vote for redundancy. I also vote for some fun "twin" epispodes where our actors get to play themselves and their "doubles," further confusing matters. With duplicate pods, it wouldn't matter which set the momogram addressed.

LSS, I was surprised you didn't mention the mercurial metallic matter (alliteration, anyone?) in your review. Can you coment on this wreckage in terms of how common "mystery metal" is in the world of science fiction/literature? Last night's show just presented the material as evidence of otherworldly visitors. Is there anything else worth noting about it?

Well, at least it's not Cadmium X !
Seriously, there are "memory metals" available now which act similarly to the shard shown. These are special alloys,not available in 1947. If Edmund Scientific has a catalog on the Web, you might look there.

1. PODS, PODS, EVERYWHERE! Or at least somewhere...we know the location of our four podsters' pods...but what about those other pods? And did you note we were told that there were two sacs with four human fetuses in each? Did we "see" sacs or pods in that shot? And didn't we see at least one that was broken? If so, what came out of it?

I have a thought on the location of the other aliens. We did see that one pod was "broken" and leaking some yummy looking gunk. Maybe the other aliens died as a result of their pod being broken, thus the four child-sized coffins??? Just a thought. I think that it would make the show more interesting if there were four other aliens though.

PRS

1)Initial high giggle factor, but not in a bad way (diminuative Kyle as Valenti, Sr.? Alex as the intelligence officer?)

2)Engrossing middle

3)Touching ending

I came away from this episode with a full heart and my imagination crazy with the possibilities.

Anyway, I was quite surprised to learn that evidently the podsters were created before the landed on Earth. I really believed that we would eventually learn who the human genetic donors were. Now it seems that either the aliens had been to our planet before, or they were somehow able to synthesize the genetic material.

I suspect that the four additional pods were meant as back-ups, but it would be a lot more interesting if they turned out to be a completely different set of individuals. Part of the appeal of this show for me is that our podsters are unique individuals, despite the cloned essence factor. No fun if there's simply an extra set running around.

As for the two sets of sacs containing four fetuses, it sure looked to me like each "sac" had four sub-divisions or pods. Kind of in a four leaf clover formation not unlike the alien symbol. I just figured that when they were ready to be installed in their chamber, they were separated like segments of an orange. I wonder if the gestational process was suspended for a time, or if humans with alien essences require a long, gradual period of gestation to develop neurologically enough to possess powers. So in Morning After, when Liz asked Max if he was really 50 years old in the body of a teenager, or if aliens age differently, she was pretty darned close to the mark. Hmmm.

I don't think that the glowy alien that was hit by the truck died. They never did see a body, after all. And that would mess up the total number of adult aliens if that was meant to be an additional individual.

I didn't take the coffins to mean that they were going to be used for their intended purpose. I was a little confused as to whom they were meant for, but I figured it was a way for the military to transport the aliens or pods in an inconspicuous manner.

I think the very human-looking glowing handprints that the aliens leave on the bodies is simply a stylistic change on the part of the special effects folks and not meant to mean anything. After all, wouldn't it be peculiar (not to mention ironic) for the essentially human Max to leave a very non-human handprint on Liz, while his full alien counterparts leave human-shaped handprints? (Frankly, I thought the original alien-looking handprint was a lovely touch and I wished they were still using it.)

As for the adult aliens glowing nature, I suspect that is their elemental form, and they hadn't gotten their bearings straight enough or weren't ready yet to shapeshift and pass themselves off as humans. They seemed to emit wierd sounds that weren't even close to human speach, so even if they could understand us, perhaps they couldn't yet speak with human voices.

There's probably more, but I can't think right now.

Rachelle

Hi Jamethiel!

Good attention to the bigger picture. On the one hand we have our podsters "starring" in the flashback to the summer of '47--and playing characters who are "not" themselves. On the other hand...the characters they play "bounce" off of their personas in 2000!

Richie/Max--Richie (or so Hal repeatedly says) sells out for the dream of a home with a white picket fence...kind of like Max reneging on Destiny in favor of a safe future with Liz?

Hal/Michael--Hal embarks on a quest for integrity and truth and is willing to risk all to find it...Michael quests for his home and is willing to risk his earth life for it.

Rosie/Liz--Rosie is a Nurse, one of the occupations open to women in the sciences in the '40s...Liz is a science type; wants to be a molecular biologist.

??????/Maria--actually both are rather loud, brash female types

the Valentis--military leaders/law enforcement...not too much has changed for them.

????/Izzy--in both arenas Izzy is linked with Michael (Hal/girlfriend; Michael/Destiny). More recently we've seen Izzy in vamp mode (with Grant) and her '40s character certainly came across like that.

So yeah...you are right. It was interesting how the '40s characters they portrayed was both like/unlike their 2000s personalities.

It was a nice tie-in to the more general Roswell info.

LSS

Hi Juniper!

I didn't comment on it because it is part of UFOLogy's Roswell. That is...as the story goes...citizens of Roswell found such material after the '47 crash. Supposedly the military "cleaned" up the crash site afterwards and got the last bits. So although Hal/Michael had a piece in our episode, it is part of the real Roswell story NOT part of our storyline (other than by adoption that is).

LSS
[/B][/QUOTE]

I think that we all are taking a lot of things on faith about this episode. We still have a lot of unanswered questions about season one and season two just keeps adding to the ever-growing pile.

TicTac v. Harding
If you have no idea what this is, you may want to skip, walk or run over to Maxcedo's site at http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/tictac.htm . This is why shapeshifter and I have been working so tirelessly archieving season one theories. So that they would not be lost. And to help new Roswellians.

The reason why I am rather excited about the two glowing aliens in Summer of 47 is because they are seen working together. Before, in season one, you had some pretty heavy clues eluding to the theory of two shapeshifters. But now we see two adult aliens together. The theory of two shapeshifters seemed to be embraced by TPTB!

I know that it was said that the aliens in the autopsy Yvonne assisted with were small. Yvonne's description did not fit what Hal saw. He saw two glowing, large, adult size aliens. I would like to remind you of my cat. When she gets scared, she appears larger than what she actually is. She also starts doing things she wouldn't normally do. Hissing and such. Could it be the glowing and the largeness of the aliens in the morgue are the natural reactions of the shapeshifter race when endangered???? The glow to appear larger and more frightening to their preditor?

Mix and match podster
from Sesame Street:
quote:
"One of these things, is not like the others, can you find it, do you know?"

That's is how I feel about Tess. She does not fit in with the other three. She is small, with bright, whiteish-blonde hair and blue eyes. M/Mi/I have larger features and darker skin tones.

But, operating on the other side, which is where I think the writers are, let's look at our assumptions of the "other pod squad".

1) The others are alive.
2) The others are about the same age as M/I/M/T.
3) The two pod squads should be together.

Ok, I am willing to give that they are alive. If you're going to add to a storyline, why do it less than half way? But as far as age goes, I really think that the other podsters would be older, perhaps much older, than the our four. Remember Nasedo told RD years before, when he left the cave painting, there would be others. The cave painting is in an ununderstandable language! Or is it? Maybe it was meant for the other podsters, a long time ago! Why would M/I/M/T-? not understand the language unless they are not meant to understand it.

So if not adolescents, or children, who are the other podsters? I think that the Evans would be strong canidates. The way Max/Isabel were found is pretty hard to believe unless you think that they had inside information. And why would the engineers allow their leaders be raised by aliens, (earthlings). Each episode the podster's importance increases. I cast a strong vote to Phillip Evans (even though he's a lawyer). It seems that the Evans were hand selected to raise the leader and his sister.

I do not think that both sets were intended to mature at the same time. It took 40 years for the fetus to mature into a six year old. (And I am amazed that theses six year old had the motor skills to walk around after floating in fluid for 40+ years.) The podsters are suppose to be hybrids of humans and alien essenses. As far as biology goes, they are more like humans-- as Pierce found out. I think that their incubation period only needed to be 9 months + the age podster should appear when hatching. So that would make M/Mi/I "cook" time 7 years tops.

Then, if that were true, the sacs/pods Hal saved were different aliens!!! Gee, how many of these sets do you think we have then?

Max pointed out of Michael, that there was a reason that he, Isabel and Michael were together. I think that same logic could be applied to the "others" out there. If they were meant to be together, they would have been placed in the same pod chamber.

Eight Coffins
I did think that there were eight coffins, but I think that there was a much more practical reason for the coffins than the resting place for the alien fetuses. They were in an army morgue afterall. It's possible that they had a stock of dead bodies that needed to be buried prior to the crash. There was nothing about those coffins other than the number eight that seemed to tie it into the rest of the story. Now, if they were childsize coffins, I think I would have been more likely to believe that they were for the sac-pods. But they seemed so large! Why would you buy a coffin for each one when they could fit probably into two or one. Why can't they be coffins for the cadavers that the surgions practice on???

Pyrotechnic Powers
I thought the hand lighter (finger lighter) was pretty cool myself. But it was not surprising to me that Michael had the ability to do this. As someone else noted, Isabel used her power to light things before. And remember our alien at the end of Blind Date? His pyro-power seemed to match Michael's and Isabel's. What if that guy was a podster like the Royal Four?

promo
Other than breaking my dreamer heart, I hope that time travel does not become a regular thing! A time travel storyline is so hard to pull of successfully. I just hope they adopted some time travel rules and don't just run amuck. I think that in most time travel stories, you cannot meet up with yourself without !whammo! collapsing the time continium. I watched YEARS and YEARS of Doctor Who! There has to be some set rules or believe me, the SciFi and Mythology of Roswell will go off on so many tangents that it will be impossible to hold together. Twenty years of Dr. Who on tape should prove it.

I think that the girl with Future Max in the Granolith chamber is Liz. My two cents anyway.

PS: I thought the lipstick on the girls was a little too red! It really looked unnatural.

What if it was from our podsters' sac?
If the child in the leaky sac died and they had to replace it, then maybe it needed time to catch up to the others, making it Tess who was in the damaged section of the sac. If this is true, then the aliens had a major problem, because the mixing of DNAs, and engineering took place before the crash, and it doesn't look like they brought any spare things that would have survived the crash. This would give them few choices on how to replace her. They could take tissue from the dead baby and clone her, but what if they had no equipment for this? If the other sac was a back up copy of each, they could have used the other Tess, but this would not mean she was any less the quenn, just a different copy of her.

What if it was from the sac of other podsters? If they hatched at a different time than ours, then that baby could be several things:
1. Dead.
2. Unable to go into the pod from the sac because it wasn't mature enough. It may have been raised normally, but without the benefit of a pod "hardwiring" it for abilities. This would mean it was part alien, but without the powers. They might even be unaware of what they are. What if Nasedo gave it away to somebody else to raise? It could be almost anybody of any age anywhere. That's helpful.
3. Partially impaired. Maybe unable to fully use their powers or physically damaged (Tic-tac?) If it were T-t and he is older, then our podsters may also be able to shapeshift when they achieve their full strength.
4. Totally unaffected and just like the rest.

What if the individuals in the other sac are not back up copies (making true kingship a muddled affair), but are normal human that look like ours and are going to used as decoys? If Tess pulled out a book with pictures of them, then maybe the Skins also know what they look like, they just don't know who is who.(CW with Valandra.) Are these poor creatures already dead? Is Tic-tac going to bring them to Roswell for the slaughter? Just another wierd idea.

BTW, Couldn't they think of an alien sounding name for Isabel? Anything that ends in "-andra" sounds very human. This didn't sound anything like the noises the aliens made when when Hal met them. Whispery clicking is what they seemed to be doing, in fact we have heard this sound from way back in first season as part of the music, just like the NA music. It sounded like the little bioluminescent critters couldn't even say Valandra. This name probably came sputtering out of a writer's "brain" with Cadmium X during a head cold. (Sorry, just a pet peeve.)

Refering to CW's statement that the Valandra was one of the female hybrids; she had a 50-50 chance. That would then mean that there were only two females out of the eight hybrids. I guess we can safely rule out any new female podsters showing up then?

This doesn't look too good for females' value on Twilo does it? Tess is apparently here as a mate for Max (judging by Max's reaction to Liz, mate/bonding is more important to them than us). So far, Isabel is a mate for the second-in-command, maybe a back-up breeder for the royalty, and perhaps there for Max to have a sibling relationship. Not tough stuff.

If the other sac contained no females, then maybe:
1. females of their species are not allowed to go on missions?
2. females would not be capable of helping the mission?
a. too gentle?
b. too weak?
c. too stupid?
d. physically so different they could not function on an Earth mission?
e. don't have all the powers of a male?
Tess and Isabel are exceptions because they are engineered or royalty?

This would mean also that the males in the other pods :
1. don't need to mate
2. were engineered to not require a mate
3. can just diddle the natives

Odd that so far we have seen two Skins that we know of, and they are both females. Maybe their males are like the SSers females.
(I am not being serious in this post, just letting my mind wonder about off its leash.)

BTW, someone asked if the podling would necessarily die because the sac was ruptured: Although human doctors in this country generally induce labor 24 hours after an amniotic sac is ruptured (in order to prevent infection), I do know of someone who ruptured her sac in a fall at 5 months gestation, and the doctor opted to let things take their natural course because the baby was not capable (in those days) of surviving that early. She delivered a healthy baby 4 months later. But I doubt the Roswell producers would have had the camera focus on that event if it was not significant to the outcome of the story.

Some points:

1) There were 8 child sized coffins (comparing to nearby objects, they were smaller than normal)

2) If you look at where the medical people fell and what they were wearing, it looks like they were in the process of cutting open that pod (thus the tub underneath to catch the fluid) - and why they were killed in the act by the aliens. Hal did not do that - make any moves against the pods, maybe that was why they let him live.

3) That one pod was the only one with movement. I wondered if it was just cheap sci fi (only enough money to show one, heehee!) OR if this podster was in trouble - already dying.

4) If you look closely, you can see that the glowing aliens do have the black eyes Hal mentioned

5) Some have said Liz can't be same as Max because Riverdog said so. Riverdog only knew Max was a visitor because he responded to his test. Liz did not. That is why he assumed she was not one of them.

6) Mentioned already, but I think very important. If the two aliens were the shapeshifters -- why didn't they shapeshift on the highway, or in the lab? They would have been much safer.

7) Just a point about the metal. Unknown how true it is, but I have heard that the memory metals we have today came from research on the metals from the crash. Of course, no one would admit it if it were true!!

Just some thoughts.

What great observations! Your points are well taken...only time will tell. Being thoroughly spoiled means that I can tell you that the next five eppys will keep your heads spinning and your SF sensibilities challenged!!!!

LSS

I had to just pop in with my two cents on the sacs/pods.

Lenaba said
As for the two sets of sacs containing four fetuses, it sure looked to me like each "sac" had four sub-divisions or pods. Kind of in a four leaf clover formation not unlike the alien symbol.

Lenaba, great post.

LSS said
I've always thought the pods looked organic...

Like Lenaba said it did look like 4 pods linked together like the 4square symbol all enclosed within a single membrane/sac. To me it looked like a smaller version of the pods in the pod chamber. I just assumed that it "grew" into the bigger shape. Like LSS, I've always been struck by how organic the pods look. Since the bioengineering took place before the crash, it would make sense that the plan's engineers would leave as little to chance as possible, i.e., make the pods/sac self-sustaining units. So as long as the sacs/pods are undisturbed they'll carry out the whole process. Just as the foeti grew, the pods grew, the connections between the pods grew, and at some point the outer membrane was no longer needed so it disintegrated or became tissue thin. We just know it's not visible at the time of emergence.

I'm not actually convinced that the fourth pod was damaged in the one sac. It looked like the army doctors had cut and peeled back the membrane of the sac to take a closer look at a pod. And it looks like the membrane is oozing the liquid, but the pod is still intact. I would think the membrane is reparable, but maybe this explains the 40-year delay. If the sacs are duplicates, then maybe the undamaged sac has already matured it's podlings, but they've failed. So then the damaged sac had to be used and it resulted in our pod squad, like Qfanny has already mentioned. They emerged prematurely because the sac was damaged. It's never made sense to me to plan to have them emerge as 6 year olds.

I think it's already been mentioned, but maybe Max from 15 years in the future is the Max from the other pod. I just thought of another reason why future Max would want present Max to fall out of love with Liz. I think this is a new take on all the theories, but it would fit into a Dreamer story line. Maybe Liz is going to die in the future because of Max, and because he loves her so much, he would rather go through the anguish of falling out of love with her and have her live. Rather than experiencing a length of time when they're mutually in love but then have his soul mate die before her time.

Time will tell.

SF

and acording to the book the royal 4 are Max Michael Tess and Isabel... why are the other 4 not in the book?... and if Nasedo was one of the aliens.. (sent to protect one set of pods).... then maybe Howie D. is the other sent to protect the other pods?...

and it looked like next week Max appears from he granolith room.. (if it was there to send max back into the future type thing... why was CW looking for it?) and how do we know that the leaking fetus actually died?... the aliens coulda fixed it..

Ok.. I must go.... (CAN'T WAIT TIL NEXT WEEK!!!!!!!!)

Striped's_Eyes(|)(|)

Just a quick bump to get us off the second page....

This is either my first or second post to the discussion of sci-fi, but this episode raised so many questions and brought back other question the other episodes have raised that I just have to post.

I’m going through each message step by step, I have a feeling this is going to be a long.

quote: Originally posted by LSS:
BTW--those two glowing figures...are we to understand that one of them later got caught? Or are those two separate from the two mentioned in The White Room?

During the scene the morgue the captain had thought those to aliens were the parents. So what are we supposed to think: parents or the other alien and Nasedo? Are we to assume that the podster already had mixed DNA when they landed? If so, when did it happen? Because they needed human DNA in order to complete the process are there M/I/M/T “twins” running around somewhere in the world? Because I sure you can just “magic – lack of a better word” DNA up.

Another thing – I will find it a little hard to believe that all the 4 humans: L/M/K/A are the other four aliens, how do we explain their parents? Granted, we have only seen at lest one parent, exception Liz, but how could that be? I can except Liz, but the others, I will have a hard time believing this unless they come up with some damn good explanations. Why have the other not shown any type of “alien” powers?

Ranting – I know, I’ll stop

Tess & Nasedo being the enemy: I have to admit that I like this theory very much. Maybe because I don’t Tess and I’m a closet dreamer? We know that Tess can manipulate memories. What if the Momogram is a manipulation? We know she can project or more that one person, and there were a total of six people in the room. It could happen. Also when the congresswoman mistook Tess for Isabel. There are at least 2 alien races on the home planet and what the congresswoman said, one either Is/Tess betrayed her race and the “skins” – we assume are in control now. So Tess takes true facts and manipulates them for her own purpose. I think Nasedo will go to the side that is more powerful, if he was an enemy on the home planet, he also became an enemy on Earth, but when Tess did her mojo, he became the protector of all four and not just Tess. He protected them against the congresswomen.

Forgive me, I’m at work and lost my train of thought with the above, but I think you guys can get the general idea.

Just had a very wild theory as I was reading the posts: What if the crash in ’47 were the skins? Because what we saw in flashbacks are not consistent with what we know about the mixing of the DNA, the set-up of the pods, the chamber and the granolith. We know that there are other aliens (assuming the skins), but perhaps not on the Earth, the communicator called to them (Destiny). The set-up in the chamber is way to elaborate for a one night jaunt and also the whole mixing of the DNA, would make it nearly impossible for those pods to be our pods. If they are our pods, how/when did they get to the chamber? This episode has lead to more questions, then answers and its starting to bug me!!

One question: since I’m relatively new to this thread of sci-fi, I was wondering if someone could please tell me who or what Tic-Tac is, I don’t recall that name at all.

Another insight perhaps? As I was reading the thread…some mentioned the men on the bus, after a confusing second (at least for me) I immediately came up with they were already here on earth and are related somehow to people/aliens/skins we saw in destiny. My thing is that M/M/I (and maybe Tess, if she really is what she says she is) have been on Earth a bit longer in order to mix the DNA and possibly the reason why they took so long to come out of the pods is that the incubation period was so long was in order for both essence of the R4 and the human DNA to mix and produce the mostly Human form and alien powers and the reason why they came out at age 6, that was only was the only age that both the Alien essence and Human essence could achieve normal development.

I think I’m all talked out and this is an extremely long post, plus I have to do some work today.

Ciao
Ms. Gwyn

"Morph" special effects are difficult, and expensive. They took the trouble to consistantly use two different effects, one for each of the different and self-consistant shapeshifters. Palomino went into this at length, about 3 months ago.

There were no consistancies in the writers for these, BTW. Writers would work on episodes with both of the SS's, so it's not a function of one writer or another. We haven't seen one episode showing both SS's, though.

The ship wasn't just crumpled up, it was shredded into tiny pieces. The pieces may resume their shapes, but they're seperated.

Also, if it wasn't obvious, we're watching a TV show, loosely based on the books. Don't expect plot parallels!

Good catch. Unlike most of you, I just read the leaking pod camera shot as an indication of the urgency and threatening nature of the situation. The two aliens obviously had to act quickly and not be interrupted by prying humans. The shot may also have been simply an attempt on the director’s part to show why Hal’s natural curiosity would instead turn to sympathy for the aliens’ predicament. The leaking pod may just as easily been repaired by the adult aliens as soon as the whole shebang had been moved to safety. As Malka said, it’s a distinct possibility that Tess is smaller than the other three not because ‘her pod leaked’ but because she was the best actress for the part and happens to be short. Though similar to premature human babies often suffering from developmental/maturation problems, I rather like the thought that "Tess’ pod leaked and that’s why she’s such a b*tch."

Further comment on the glowing aliens: I forget exactly, but I recall Tess saying at some point last season that Nasedo didn’t have a human form or "human side" at all. In one regard you’d take that to mean he was sociopathic (a good quality in a protector), but didn’t this also refer to the fact that he was, for lack of a better term, pure energy? If memory serves, she said she’d never seen him in his true form. There’s conflicting evidence that a second shapeshifter other than Nasedo has been in our midst. What indicates that the one we’re calling Tic-Tac exists, except for a certain human sentimentality that makes us want to believe that one isn’t capable of outright murder, but another one is? The "different color glow" is not substantial enough and neither are questions of motive, as we all know season one was plagued with inconsistency all around. And as for the Tic-Tacs, hey, maybe the company was a sponsor and isn’t any more; maybe it just covers up Tabasco breath. Nasedo might have easily smited Hubble’s wife because Hubble was far too close to discovering the truth about the crash. The death of his wife and child was just the impetus he needed to give up and run for his life.

On the coffins: I am not convinced that the four coffins weren’t for the adult aliens, who did not look to be the same size as full-grown humans. The nurse had seen the (two?) alien carcass(es), did she indicate the size of the body? Most images of what we recognize as aliens, that is, "little green men," are just that: little. But men, meaning full-grown. The image of dead Nasedo seems to bear that out. We understood that there were four adult aliens: two dead, and two soon-to-be-dead (though burying their bodies seems like a ridiculous thing for the military to do). Burying the pods/sacs in conventional coffins seems slightly silly, since they certainly didn’t bear much resemblance to human bodies. Rachelle/Leneba makes a good point about the use of the coffins to transport - but not bury - either the adult aliens or the pod babies. (Rachelle, I’ve noticed you and I are on the same page on a lot of things, including how much more deeply the fans look at the details than the writers).

Janet MG brought up how the home planet would have gotten human DNA to create the podsters before the crash (as opposed to extracting human DNA upon arrival, such as from the murdered pregnant wife of Hubble). Aside from SETI-ish transmissions that she suggests, the obvious answer seems to be abductions. Other than the new manager of the UFO Center, has any other character on the show mentioned being abducted?

Finally, in my not-so-humble opinion, I think we all have to accept the fact that the usefulness of "the book" as a plot device is done, and give up on the book ever revealing anything or being mentioned again. Over. Gone. The book’s not coming back, folks, so wondering "why didn’t the book say…" is a waste of our time. I’d like to be proven wrong, but I bet a quarter I’m not.

I thought that the coffins were full size coffins. I would like to retract this statement, and better explain why I thought so. It was a trick of the camera angle. When Hal Carver looks at the coffins, he is crouching down. The camera was placed at the floor level and the lens tilted up. This left me thinking that the coffins were taller than they actually were. Classic optical illusion I should know better than to fall for.

Anyway, Palomino, regarding why there would only be two females in a crew of eight. If the premise of four squares is correct, perhaps each female is meant to mate with more than one male. If reproduction is a means of alien world salvation, (and I don't really think it is), there would need to be more bulls than cows to prevent inbreeding. But not being very good in science, I would understand if you disagree.

And what was up with Michael's hair- that side-flip thing he had going on was !

Also- couldn't the writers do something a little more eerie about the parental aliens showin' up for the rescue? The glowing trick-or-treaters with black eyes just wasn't cuttin' it! Geeze! WTF was that!

You know I didn't cover it...and I don't think it has been mentioned thus far...but now we have an introduction to alien "language" (if those squeeks and such were "anguage").

Interestingly, language has been a notorious area in SF (at least so linguists have charged--and linguists have written articles on SF and alien languages).

Did any of you notice our new "alien" speech?

LSS

You know I didn't cover it...and I don't think it has been mentioned thus far...but now we have an introduction to alien "language" (if those squeeks and such were "anguage").

Interestingly, language has been a notorious area in SF (at least so linguists have charged--and linguists have written articles on SF and alien languages).

Did any of you notice our new "alien" speech?

LSS

I thought it sounded like whales myself. Maybe I was thinking of ST IV the movie. But we have had an alien language for a long time. The cave painting and book are all evidence of it. And I sort of think that the written part of the language is done three dimensionally. The characters in the books have holes in the material, as if you are to read it like braille. This is not a complete thought by any sort.

What we do know is that Max/Isabel were telepathic at one time. So it follows that their makers would also be telepaths. Maybe the clicks and chirps were a failed attempt to speak vocally.

One more point before I toddle off, the Roswell title credits show two different "four-square" symbols between the letter W which at one point looks like the symbol for an "X" chromosome or a human figure. What if, as others have theorized, there are two different pods represented by two different races/species for which the hybrid/humans are a bridge between the two? One pod could be (shapeshifter/human) and the other pod (skin/human). Of course the human element would make them look alike (if they used the same DNA, but their powers would be different). I think this theory would explain Momogram's ("evil within" statement) and Congresswoman Whitaker's 50% chance on the female hybrids statement. Lots of fun to speculate! Can't wait to see those extra episodes, too!!

As a practical matter, you'd want more females than males. One male can keep many females pregnant, thus turning out more replacement aliens. Several males and one female would produce offspring only at the rate one female can. In either case, the offspring would be half-brothers and sisters, sharing one parent (male or female). (Remember, I'm Palomino's brother, and P's very into breeding and such.)

Ok, I must have my information wrong. I'm no scientist, but I can bill any meter anywhere, so watch out!!!!

Well, most newborns do have trouble speaking; why would the podsters be different? :D

As for the Protectors not being able to speak, I can't believe that. If you sent a tour to Italy, would you neglect to send someone who spoke Italian? To France, Russia, Korea, etc. - same thing. After going to all the other trouble they've taken, not including responsable individuals who spoke the local language is absurd.
OTOH, as a professional tour guide at a museum in Vermont, we occasionally had Canadians in. I once had a school tour from Quebec, whose teacher "didn't know" English. (She must have; national law there is that all public employees must be bilingual. )
Anyhow, she only would understand her ancestral language; so I did the tour in one of mine: German. She wound up translating my German into French for the kids. They must have had fun with her afterwards... <ROTFL>

As for the Protectors not being able to speak, I can't believe that. If you sent a tour to Italy, would you neglect to send someone who spoke Italian? To France, Russia, Korea, etc. - same thing. After going to all the other trouble they've taken, not including responsable individuals who spoke the local language is absurd.
OTOH, as a professional tour guide at a museum in Vermont, we occasionally had Canadians in. I once had a school tour from Quebec, whose teacher "didn't know" English. (She must have; national law there is that all public employees must be bilingual. )
Anyhow, she only would understand her ancestral language; so I did the tour in one of mine: German. She wound up translating my German into French for the kids. They must have had fun with her afterwards... <ROTFL>

ROTFLMAO!

My German is so bad anymore. "Ich kann verstehen, aber nicht gut sprechen." I can totally appreciate the humor behind the situation you described.

Anyway, regarding the clicks and burps the glowing aliens made. Do you think that they had the biology to make the sounds required to speak English? Maybe they understood, but still couldn't speak. Did they even have mouths?

I also like the idea that our four are shapeshifter-human, while the other four are skin-human. It would certainly make for some subtle differences. I don't believe it it true- why would they be sent together when presumably whoever is sending it is the faction losing the war, for example- but it would have interesting consequences.

Qfanny : Brother Dearest (Reggie) wanted me to confirm his statement that it would be better to have a small number of males to a larger number of females for breeding if trying to avoid inbreeding. Well, yes, my brother is right. One stud can service many mares in one season, producing 20-40 offspring easily. One mare can only have one pregnancy during that year, so it is much more efficient to have one male to several females. After a couple years, a second stud can be brought in to breed the daughters of the first, then a third, etc. Four studs could produce four generations with no inbreeding.

If you have all four studs breeding mares at the same time, again you can keep the horses from inbreeding for generations.

Also, sometimes people confuse inbreeding with linebreeding, which is a fairly common practice in livestock. To make it simple, inbreeding is close-relative mating(uncle/niece), and linebreeding in more distant-relative mating(half-cousins, second cousins, etc) which is usually used to concentrate desirable characteristics in the offspring.

If aliens didn't mind a little linebreeding, they could keep an Earth-bound group breeding for a while, depending on how many were sent. For efficiency, a low male ratio would be desirable (space ship ticket expence, taking up a pod, etc.), but for a greater variety in the gene pool, a 50/50 ratio would be better. Low female ratios would be the least desirable way to go. If there are two sets of four podsters with 4 females and 4 males, and they selectively switched partners, they could produce 3 generations without inbreeding. But only if they had large families, and had both a girl and boy to each partner. After the third generation (I think I counted right, forgive me if I didn't, it's late here), there would be line breeding, but nothing serious in the fourth or fifth generation. (I would find this acceptable in my horses.) The four original female podsters would each need to have eight children; a boy and girl to each of the original males. It gets pretty confusing and their finished family tree would look incredible.

Anyhow, to get back o Roswell, I can't believe that the podsters are there to breed an army, or repleantish their planet. The Royalty may have to produce heirs, but I doubt if the aliens are trying to make Earth a stud farm.(Hi Ho Silver) If they were, the podsters would all be female, and conception would be artificially done with a well-stocked sperm and egg bank to be used over innumerable generations.

I still think, from Max's reaction to seeing Liz, that there is something alien about his love for her that can best be explained by his "bonding to a mate". Aliens may have a psychological need to pair-bond that humans and podsters don't know about. Maybe this is why they were sent with mates - a neccessity as well as a convenience. Max seems unaware that his feelings for Liz are unusual. I think this is very sweet and touching, because Liz seems to love him only in a human sense, but he basks in it. The other podsters also seem unaware that his love and devotion are more than human. Nasedo may not have realized how serious this relationship was. He also neglected to give them biology lessons, among (many)other things.

Wow! It is past my bedtime and this is longer than what I intended. You all are probably way past these topics.

Every good cosmology needs its creation myth, for the Roswell series, it’s fulfilled by The Summer of 47 episode. In my mind, Monday night’s show was the true beginning, everything else was prologue or background to this show that fused the past and present to answer one of the show’s (and real life’s) most ever present questions—how did we get to where we are today?

Last season’s, season finale supposedly revealed/answered the why we are here question for Max, Michael, Isabel and Tess but left them with many more questions than they had about themselves before. As the teens learn, they share a common fate with many people (humans) of the 20th century as refugees from political or cultural violence. At the same time this revelation reassured we the viewers, that the teens are not here to destroy the planet or as advanced scouts for imminent colonization. We may not be alone, but as Michael learns in this episode, neither are they.

Since learning of their status as leaders of their people, which provided them with a special destiny, that both empowered and alienated (pun intended) them from others, the foursome had tried hard to distance themselves from the humans they had come to love and care about. This was especially true of Michael who like a true soldier (even before he knew that this was his role) tried not to become emotionally involved with anyone other than Max and Isabel. Even though he and Maria were the first to get involved and the two having the most trouble staying apart. Michael also has the added burden of having the death of a human on his hands and the knowledge that he might have to kill again, all of which has made him confused, defensive, rude and single-mindedly committed to their cause.

Which brings up the other thing that any good story needs and that’s a really good coincidence. In this episode it’s Michael being assigned to get a Roswell now vs. Roswell during WWII story from an old army Lieutenant who happens to have an alien story of his own, and now a days, who doesn’t? Lt. Carver’s story opens up a direct link back to the crash in 47 and the four teens. In all the other episodes it was assumed that they somehow survived the crash, but if so, why weren’t they found by the Army, where were the others like them, and who had hid them (and their pods) away in the rocks? From the Lt.’s story, Michael learns that indeed, he and the others were retrieved from the crash site and that other’s like Nasedo survived as well to take care of them. The other familiar details of the Roswell myth are also laced throughout Carver’s story, but almost in short hand, as though the writers and producers of the show believe that it’s unnecessary to go into all that again, and they’re probably right, but it’s still interesting to consider how much “alienology” has become a part of American culture. Instead, we get the missing pieces from the kid’s perspective, that they were found by the Army but saved though a combination of violence (although in self-defense) and human compassion. This last piece hits Michael especially hard and combined with his self-identification with Lt. Carver, surprisingly moves him to an intellectual and emotional re-evaluation of his connection to humans, which is sweetly played out in his reaching out to, and thanking of Maria.

So beyond laying down the threads, back and forth, that we will see for the rest of the season (and what came before), this episode gave us Michael’s badly needed personal development and character growth, an interesting chance for some of the major characters to play both against and with type: Max as a defender of the status quo at any price, nicely juxtaposed against the “Ask Not” episode’s take on what it means to be a leader, Isabel as a good time, party girl played back to back with “Surprise” where she looks like a princess, but manages to be something much more, and Tess, who really is more than the sum of her curls and cupid lips, who plays nothing more than that. Maria was perfectly cast (if not perfectly accented) as the reporter, but I felt most sorry for Liz, who (under) played the unlucky nurse pulled in to assist with the infamous alien autopsies and who gets disappeared for her efforts. I hope this isn’t indicative of the role she will come to play (or not) in the upcoming season. I also hope it was just a coincidence of the 47 story plot line that both of the roles played by Liz and Maria end up dead. While each of these roles were a stretch for the actors, some doing better than others, Jason Behr most notably followed by Colin Hanks, it was fun and informative to see them as these other people.

And the comment to Max/Doty about how he had earned the white picket fence by selling out Hal/Michael: This brings to mind the rows of white crosses, I think at Arlington Cemetary, location of Agent Stephen's address where Stephens died because he knew too much.

Palomino, Thanks for restating your theory on the music from last season now being revealed as an interpretation of the alien speech (did I more or less get that right?). I had missed it (these threads move so fast now).

What if the first set of pods where suppose to be the guardians of the Royal 4? They then could be the Evans or just one of the Evans. The next group could be the Parkers or one of the Parkers. Which leads me to feel that Grandma Parker knew Tic-Tac(I believe that Tic-Tac killed Hank in Independence Day & was at the orb site in Sexual Healing). Tic-Tac saw his beloved Bride of Max dying, because of the ruptured sac. He saved her essense & with the help of Grandma Parker put it into Mrs. Parkers when they knew that Max would be coming out making them the same age. Thus Liz has alien essense but is more human. Hope I'm making sense.

Which then leaves Tess. I think the Skins had tryed their own version of Alien/Human DNA mixing. And this is where I'm not sure if Nacedo is involved or not. Thought that Max's bride's fetus was dead. Did a mindwarp on M/I/Mi, created a book to back it up. Could it be that Nacedo found out about it & that's why he was kill or is he really not dead and helping the skins?

Grandma Parker did see very disappointed that Liz hadn't found her soul mate in Leaving Normal. As when Max unknowingly gave her that out of body experience to talk to Liz, she seemed to know him.

Sorry, for trambling.

What we do know is that Max/Isabel were telepathic at one time. So it follows that their makers would also be telepaths. Maybe the clicks and chirps were a failed attempt to speak vocally.

Hi Qfanny!

I stand corrected. We do have written language before this eppy...what I meant (but was unclear about) was the oral diimension we experienced in this eppy.

BTW--why are you assuming that M/I were originally telepathic? I am not adverse to this idea, but you state it as if it is a confirmed part of the storyline. I was unaware of this.

LSS

Every good cosmology needs its creation myth, for the Roswell series, it’s fulfilled by The Summer of 47 episode. In my mind, Monday night’s show was the true beginning, everything else was prologue or background to this show that fused the past and present to answer one of the show’s (and real life’s) most ever present questions—how did we get to where we are today?

Hi lagz!

Welcome to the SF threads! I've got to say that the above observation warmed my heart. One of the topics on which I have published is the Creation Story in Jewish, Christian, and Muslim traditions. And you are absolutely correct, this eppy does function as an origins story for our podsters' earth experience. Of course we know the storyline will soon flesh out life before the crash, but for Roswell, NM and aliens---this IS a kind of creation account. Nice description!

LSS

Hi JayJay!

Welcome to the SF threads as poster! What you suggest is interesting. IF the technological expertise of bioengineering is not limited to Max's people, then there is nothing stopping other people/species/whatever from having it as well. I don't know about Tess, but what you are suggesting in terms of bioengineered people from sources other that the one that produced Max & Co, is entirely possible.

LSS

1) Liz is fully human, but when Max made the "connection go the other way" in the pilot, he rewired Liz's brain just a bit and awoke her "human" ability to see visions. The Podsters are hybrids with highly evolved "human" powers. I think that's what Nasedo aluded to in WR.

2) Human DNA was obtained by the alien race(s) before the crash. Stories of alien abductions are prevalent. All it takes is a strand of hair.

3)There were 4 mature aliens. 2 died on impact, 2 lived and we saw them in the morgue. We know from WR that they were both captured at one point, but that 1 escaped (Nasedo) and one remained in captivity and was experimented on until it died.

4)I think the second set of Pods are the redundant, the back up. I suspect that only one set was to be implemented, because only one set was refferred to in the Mom-o-Gram.
It is possible that since Nasedo had the opportunity to rescue one set, he may have been also fortunate enough to rescue the second set as well. But he never mentioned it, so it's current existance or value is unknown at this time.

4) I think Tess is a legit Podster. She may not be miss goodie-two-shoes, but I think she is as legit as any of the other hybrids.

5) I submit that Nasedo formed the Pod Chamber and put the fetuses in their respective incubation suites. My only question is did he assemble the Ganolith, or did he retrieve it intact from the wreckage?

Many questions, many theories. Writers throw us a bone, will'ya!

1)What if a medical team of mixed races/species was aboard that spaceship that crashed in '47? I'm thinking of Doctors without Borders type of thing made up of shapeshifters/skins trying to bring peace to their troubled planet by literally ("joining forces") through the use of our hybrid podsters.

2)And if this mixed team was at the crash site, the two aliens that died could have been the "skins" that couldn't survive without their special "skin suit." The others could have been shapeshifters that changed into their captured brethren in order to hide their ability to shapeshift. A form of protective coloration, so to speak.

3)This is a different theory, but suggested by the aliens we've seen so far...What if the shapeshifters and skins are different versions of the same alien race, kind of like caterpillars and butterflies? The caterpillars (skins) might not be able to communicate with their more "evolved" butterfly kin, and make war on them out of fear and jealousy. There does seem to be quite a bit of knowledge on Congresswoman Whitaker's part about the former Valandra's life and loves, so maybe they just hate each other rather than have an inability to communicate.

LSS

Ahh...
Is this a spoiler?

Well--if it is it is a really vague one--without any specifics that is. Since we have been told over and over again that this season explores the alien mythology and since the last eppy went back and to the crash itself, I think it is fairly logical to suppose that we are going to explore what happened before the crash.

How's that for rationalization? Sorry if the spoilerish nature of my comment offended you Reggie. I really do try to keep spoiler material off this thread.

LSS

I stand corrected. We do have written language before this eppy...what I meant (but was unclear about) was the oral diimension we experienced in this eppy.

BTW--why are you assuming that M/I were originally telepathic? I am not adverse to this idea, but you state it as if it is a confirmed part of the storyline. I was unaware of this.

LSS

From Balanced:

MAX: I remember the first time I saw Michael. It was in the desert the night we first came out of the pods. The sky was bright with stars and this full moon. Isabel and I found each other first. We didn't know how to speak, but we could communicate anyway. We walked for a while, but we could both feel someone else.

From White Room:

TESS: We don’t know that. I would have felt it if something happened to him.

I think this implies telepathy myself.

3)There were 4 mature aliens. 2 died on impact, 2 lived and we saw them in the morgue. We know from WR that they were both captured at one point, but that 1 escaped (Nasedo) and one remained in captivity and was experimented on until it died.

Rebecca :
Many of us noticed in WR that Pierce never actually said it died, just that they had studied it for three years. Max said later that Pierce had told him what things they had done to it. Apparently they had tortured it, because Max told the others he would die before he would let that happen to any of them. I think they wanted us to assume it died, but they left the door open to bring the alien back if they needed him. Some have even thought that Tic-tac was the one who was in captivity for three years; otherwise, Tic-tac had to have come on a different ship. Although it is possible, we have no hints yet that the SSers have started a mass exodus from the homeworld or a government in exile, so we are led to believe that the only SSers here now came on the '47 ship. Since two SSers survived the crash, and we have seen two SSers (Harding and Tic-tac), we can not yet assume that the one held for three years in captivity is dead.

I will be out of the country for the next few days attending meetings and have asked Qfanny to take care of this thread. See you on Sunday.

LSS

I will do my best to follow the example LSS has given!

I will do my best to follow the example LSS has given!

Reggie: You lucky stiff! I don't see it till 9pm Monday on the West Coast. No wonder the SF thread is always 2 pages long by the time I get there.

Remember, is not an

Hi Reggie!

Great Idea!

I am not opposed to starting a thread, but I want to first check out whether or not this would be considered a spoiler. I thought that anything that is mentioned before the WB Monday time slot it was considered a spoiler.

Moderators: If you are lurking, what is your ruling?

I went over to Crashdown and found something that you might be interested in towards the TicTac shapeshifting theory. The quote below is from LSS's Science Fiction Review of Independence Day (last paragraph).

quote:Shapeshifting, as an ability, is deeply embedded in myth and legend. Perhaps the most widely known of these stories contain beings with the ability to shift from human to animal form (i.e., werebeasts). Our alien shapeshifter, however, shifts from one human form to another (whether he (?) can shift to animal form is not known). Such shifting is apparently accompanied by a blaze of white light/energy (almost as if he (?) was an energy being whose essence we are able to glimpse in the transformation). Moreover, both before and after this transformation, the shapeshifter ingests what--for all practical purposes to the audience-- looks like tic-tacs from a plastic container. If our producers mean for us to think of pills here, it is odd that they do not provide us with a more easily recognizable container. Instead we are left with the perplexing question of why shape shifting requires tic-tacs. Are we to think sugar/energy requirements? Or bad breath as an a residual effect of shapeshifting (but then why take them before the shapeshifting occurs)? Perhaps the objects are meant to represent pills (pain killers?) and any confusion is simply attributable to a poor choice of props!

The TicTac theory helps explain the use of TicTacs by the shapeshifter. You certainly do not have to entertain it.

I wouldn't mind seeing your views (and everyone else's views) on this paragraph. LSS put the "energy being" comment in parathesis as a side thought. The aliens beings that Hal Carver saw in the morgue would seem to fit nicely here. Is the glow from the aliens possibly the essense of the beings between shifts?

Thoughts?

Hi Shannon1979!

Welcome to the Sci Fi thread

You are not the first person to post on the coffins. I think you're right about there being eight. That was the impression that I had. But I must rewatch the episode to be certain. Some have stated that the other four were coffin lids. (And if I got that wrong, I humbly apologize.)

On a different note, I think you are right about the writers leaving things open. To what extent they do this to remains unclear.

Thanks for posting!

I got a reply back from LisaBham regarding the thread TEOTW you want me to start on Saturday night. This was her reply.

quote:
Once a promo or episode has aired on "Network" TV it is no longer considered a spoiler. This does not include early viewing by satelite feed, or promotional videos. Generally the East coast of the US and Canada gets the episode first.

It sounds like the thread should not be on Roswell 1 Boards. I would be happy to start the thread on the spoiler boards though. I'd also entertain other thoughts for those interested in this discussion.

1st. Many bioluminescent organisms on earth seem to be chemical in their light production source. If the aliens are glowing by choice, like earth critters, then maybe they only glow when they want to, as suggested before on this thread.

2nd. If the bioluminescent chemicals are present in the outer tissue layers, like chromatophores in our animals, then when the SSers use their hands to "silver fry" somebody, these alien "chromatophores" may have some of their pigments blasted onto the the victom's body. Unfortunately, I hit a firefly a couple years ago that smushed on my windshield in the glow of health, where he remained in after-glow for many hours. If the chemicals in the tissues of aliens can also remain glowing for a long time if removed from the body without being deactivated, then the bodies left behind have trace amounts of silvery bioluminescent chemicals that have been forced into their outer tissues by energy expended by the alien. Healing must also expend energy and force amounts of glowing pigments into the skin of the healed individual. After a few days, the chemicals lose their potency, break down, and the glow disappears.

3rd. If Max left the silver handprint on Liz, then he must also carry the pigments like pure SSers. The podsters may or may not have enough to achieve the same bioluminescence as pure-blooded members of their species. The podsters' powers are getting stronger, so maybe this ability will appear later.

4th. The hands of aliens have glowed when using their powers. Perhaps the energy being used activates the bioluminescent chromatophores unintentionally. Isabel used her powers to create a hole in the door in "Surprise", but her hand did not glow. This might be because:
she is learning to focus her powers and avoiding this side affect,
only males have the "glow", she was using mental powers that did not travel through her hand but she was unaware of it,
it was an oversight by the makers,
or the glow briefly happened when we were watching the door.

5th. And this is scarey. In "Sexual Healing", Max was instinctually beginning alien foreplay with Liz by slowly passing his hand over Liz's arm, making it glow(we have not seen other humans glow like this). As soon as he stopped, the glow was gone, so silvery pigment had not been "energy pressured" into her skin while he had his hand energized. It seemed as though he had only activated what was there already, without knowing it. That means Liz may have had the pigment in her tissues and Max simply activated it with a small amount of energy that aliens probably expend naturally during foreplay. This leaves the question, "why would Liz have alien pigment in her skin?"

a. When Max healed her, the pigment that was transferred to her tissues glowed for a day or two because Max had it "activated" when it was transferred during the healing. The pigment may have remained, not breaking down, but being absorbed and slowly migrating throughout her skin tissues. During his energy foreplay, Max activated the pigments into gloing again, this time on her arm. When he removed the energy, he deactivated the pigments. Kyle might be a walking Buddha bulb. The only problem is : the pigment would have been diluted by being spread from the handprint to all over. Perhaps there was a large amount of it to begin with, or it doesn't take much.
b. Something I don't like to think about - Liz might be part alien, but to a lesser extent than Max. (Or maybe if she is part alien, alien genes are recessive to human genes, so she seems human, but Max was engineered to keep the alien genes co-dominent, so he has more alien characteristics.)
c. Max was using some other power or energy that is unrelateded.
d. The writers didn't know what they were doing (again), and it is left to us to make up reasons why, like usual.

I am hoping it is "a".

What a terrific post! Let's see if I got it right!

Aliens can glow when they want.
The glow is from alien pigments which are capable of migrating to humans when powers are used at high energy levels.
Max has the same pigmants as the shapeshifters.
Glowing may be a male ability.
The glow on Liz's arm was the result of Max activating the pigments he transfered into Liz when he healed her.
-----Or Liz is alien and already had the pigments.
-----Or Max was using a different power.
-----Or writers don't know what they are doing!

Now for some more specific points to your post.
quote:Originally posted by Palomino:
3rd. If Max left the silver handprint on Liz, then he must also carry the pigments like pure SSers. The podsters may or may not have enough to achieve the same bioluminescence as pure-blooded members of their species. The podsters' powers are getting stronger, so maybe this ability will appear later.

I think that this is true. But it totally destroys the explaination Harding gave in The White Room about the podsters powers being human powers. And, from what you said in sum, was that the podsters biology has alien features-pigmants. Pierce made a big deal about all of Max's organs and systems being human, except his cells. The skin being the largest organ we have, would this not also be anaylized by the FBI special unit. Or are pigments not part of the epidermis? Was this an oversight, our could the glow be the chemical reaction of cells (blood?).

My point is, as season two progresses, the harder I find it to believe Nasedo's explanation. I think the powers are alien anymore, and not human.

quote:
4th. The hands of aliens have glowed when using their powers. Perhaps the energy being used activates the bioluminescent chromatophores unintentionally. Isabel used her powers to create a hole in the door in "Surprise", but her hand did not glow. This might be because:
she is learning to focus her powers and avoiding this side affect,
only males have the "glow", she was using mental powers that did not travel through her hand but she was unaware of it,
it was an oversight by the makers,
or the glow briefly happened when we were watching the door.
This would be a nice touch (sorry, weak pun) for the writers to leave in. We know Liz can glow when touched by Max. Does Kyle need to be touched to glow? If glowiness is a male ability, and he has the pigments, is it possible he could glow if in a heighten state of emotion without being touched by an alien?
quote:
d. The writers didn't know what they were doing (again), and it is left to us to make up reasons why, like usual.

I am hoping it is "a".

Palomino- I think "D" is the real answer, but like you, I am hoping for "A" or "C". "A" would be a cleaner explanation. The writers do not know the consequences of what they wrote.

Hi samson!

Your post is so short, I missed it at first glance. I thought the same thing for a brief moment. But I then decided that Jason was giving the character Richard Doty a mannerism to seperate him from Max Evans.

I immediately thought of Zorro!

Does anyone know the name of the mortuary that was contacted? Or the name of a coffin factory? Although, those coffins were rather plain, they could have been built more locally, with material from a lumberyard.

How's that for scientific sounding mumbo jumbo?

About Pierce saying Max looked human in skeleton and organs :
1. the podsters might have enough human DNA to have organ structures that look human on X-rays, but does the gallbladder really function as a gallbladder? Is the pancreas really acting as a pancreas? It looks like a liver, but is it serving the same purpose and functioning the same on a cellular level?
2. Max's skin may look normal, but what if those cells are chromatophores having the silver pigment producing capabilities? We don't know how detectable the bioluminescent chemical is when not activated. Do you know the firefly is there if he doesn't light up?

ITEM I FORGOT IN MY POST ABOUT THE GLOWING :
The SSers are very bright when shifting. Shifting takes alot of energy. If their energy activates the bioluminescent pigments (chemicals), then everytime they shift, they will glow until they "turn off" their energy, just like a firefly (unless it gets smashed onto the windshield before it can turn off - like I have experienced.)

As for Cadmium X, I really don't want to think about it, except to say this : when I paint, I use a color called Cadmium Red. There is also Cadmium Yellow, I believe. In the show's symbolism, both red and yellow have been "bad". I still think Pierce was an evil alien and the Cadmium X was already in his bones - Michael did nothing to produce it. If this is not the case and the writers are as dumb as THEY think WE are, then I would be happy to forget I ever heard of the stuff. (The scientist in me cringes at the science mistakes in this otherwise wonderful show.)

I don't get a very encouraging picture of the homeworld, either, if the behavior of Nasedo and Whittaker is any indication--him scheming, prevaricating, withholding information, her descending to the level of the b***hiest possible palace intrigue--"You were beautiful (unspoken words: And I was jealous of you and hated your guts), you ran off with the wrong guy, you sold your own brother." I sense many warring factions plotting for a piece of the Fab 4, or 8, or 4 x 2, and willing to tell them anything, jerk their chains, push their buttons, and if that doesn't work, get abusive and violent on their heinies. All the while denying them any memories--though that may have been a function of the whole desperate plan going awry when the ship crashed, quite possibly leaving the leadership dead or fugitive.

In the meantime the podsters have gone native, not to mention falling in love with humans, surely not part of the great scheme at all. Or was it? Did we have something to teach them in the end? It's a stretch for me to believe that, yet Hal saved the day, and showed us all how human we *can* be. But if we're the best there is, it certainly makes the rest of the universe look like a dark, menacing place.

Maybe some answers will be forthcoming next week.

Thanks for this forum for more speculative thoughts.

Liz in California
"I don't care who you are, I don't care what you are, I'm there for you."

Palomino, you paint too? There's also Cadmium Orange, Cad Yellow Lt., Cad Yellow Med., etc. (I used to think in terms of Ultramarine and Cobalt. But now it's all light in Photoshop with primaries of Red, Green, and a warm Blue.) Anyway, all the Cadmium colors are toxic. And yea, I was waiting for Michael to find out that Pierce was a skin who had killed the real Pierce a lot earlier. But I've given up on it for now like our Tictac theory.

I got a reply back from LisaBham regarding the thread TEOTW you want me to start on Saturday night. This was her reply.

It sounds like the thread should not be on Roswell 1 Boards. I would be happy to start the thread on the spoiler boards though. I'd also entertain other thoughts for those interested in this discussion.

A Sci-fi on the spoiled board? But I couldn't go there! (Nor could many of the rest of us, I think.) And, being on the SB, it would get contaminated with stuff beyond the upcoming (downcoming, from the satellite?) episode. No, I'll just wait until you open it here, and I can discuss it with the usual gang.
Thanks anyway.

This is your brain:
This is your brain on spoilers:
Any questions?

In any event, here's the thread that I started. Go take a look if you will, then come back, as I have a few comments on what I've read in *this* thread so far.
http://bbs.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/001528.html#2

The Granolith: It reminds me of The Monolith from 2001. The Monolith was a multi-purpose semi-sentient tool. If, as someone suggested, the "aliens" are a future us, then the time travel component makes sense. However, it grieves me somewhat. We still haven't outgrown war?

ValentiFan is correct about the nature of the home world. In all this, we have no moral signposts beyond the characters we've seen. And a full blooded alien seems a bit too much given to calculated savagery for a representative of an advanced race. Indeed we have no proof at all that the race that created the podsters has any justice on their side in the war. All we know is that they lost a war. Germany lost two wars. That didn't make them right. This in no way reflects on the podsters. The clone is in no way a "copy" of the donor. He or she is an individual in their own right. Should that prove the case I look forward to some serious conflict as the podsters reject their race's cause.

Tess: Someone brought up the interesting possiblity that she was from the other Pod Squad. I doubt it, but let's examine that. When push comes to shove she's an "aliens first and screw the humans" kind of girl. Harder, and more abrasive. This could be Nacedo's influence and training. *But*, if she's from the other creche, it could be explained as another variable in the parameters of the two groups. She could have had different memory engrams implanted. Less independence, and more "me first and obedience to the plan".

Personally, going back to my original post, I think the first creche was hatched earlier and bombed out. Whether they were liquidated, or escaped their keepers is moot. If they were uncorked in the late 50's or early 60's they would be in early middle age by now.

This puts our human protagonists out of the running as podsters. I never seriously considered them. 1) As someone said, we'd know it by now. 2) We have no evidence pointing to it (references to adoption etc.) It does however leave them open, as possible first generation offspring of a mating between an earlier podster and a human, to having a few green corpuscles floating around in their blood. Or even second generation if the earlier podsters got amorous at an early age. A thin possibilty, but an intriguing one. Which begs the question, is a 3/4, or 7/8 human heritage enough to mask the alien DNA. And how does it affect any powers the individual has? Or do they have any at all? Interesting.

Sci Fi of Ask N: http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/The%20Science%20Fiction%20of%20Ask%20Not.htm

Sci Fi of Surprise: http://bbs.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/000934.html

Some of the Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology Threads -- #12 it is at: http://bbs.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/001283.html

And Qfanny's & my Archive of Season 1 Theories at http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell

BTW, at 44 you're just a whippersnapper to many of us. Back when I looked like Liz, your voice was probably just beginning to change (that is if your icon is any indication of gender).

Anyhoo, I too was wondering about the podsters being hatched in 1989 if they already looked like fetuses in 1947. I decided it probably was our podlings since they had to have a lot of mental development when they were born (not to mention powers), **AND** because the emotional scene at the end of 47 when Michael tells Hal, "You saved me" and they hug seemed to leave no room to change this plot element.

P.S.: Qfanny, Maxcedo said to tell you that you shall be greatly rewarded for archiving the Sci Fi of Ask Not and SB threads as shapeshifter was slothful in not doing so.
However, he wants to have a little talk with you about, ahem, he said "technique." I won't ask what that's all about.

the question on my mind is... when hal saw the sacs, it was glowing things behind the truck. then he had said that it looked like human fetuses 2-3 days later. my question is, did they look human at the truck or at the hanger. where did they get the dna to look human? and if they got it, who's dna was it?

Mjay,
Many of us have discussed a myriad of possibilities as to whose DNA it was. Sheila Hubble has been a favorite candidate for Tess because of the name "Sheila" listed as her mother on her school records and Liz's flash of dead Sheila when Maxcedo kissed her. But Tess is still suspected of being a substitute--now even more so with the leaky sack evidence.

Personally, I have always clung to the idea that the original podsters had totally synthetic DNA which the alien scientists based on virtual earth samples that they observed remotely with highly powered telescopic microscopes. It would be much less messy--both physically and morally. But no one else has bought my theory thus far. In fact, I don't even think it made it to the Season one archive page at http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell (just a bit of a shameless plug there to differentiate it from all the thread archives I posted above).

I don't get a very encouraging picture of the homeworld, either, if the behavior of Nasedo and Whittaker is any indication--him scheming, prevaricating, withholding information, her descending to the level of the b***hiest possible palace intrigue

I agree that the homeworld doesn't seem much more evolved in some ways than earth, although (like some humans) HoloMom seemed a little better than Nacedo and Whitaker. Maybe M/M/&I's people chose the planet whose sentient beings most resembled their own. A highly evolved race that has learned how to work together in peace despite differences might not be very good at the kind of revolution the Podster's people seem to need.

Alternatively, maybe the Skins picked this battlefield long before the Podsters were a twinkle in anyone's eye (or test tube), and thus whatever it is that the Podsters have to accomplish, has to happen here. Under this scenario, a race that continually seems to forget any lessons learned from the Holocaust might be a very attractive tool of some sort to the Skins.

The third possibility that comes to mind quickly is rather cynical. It's probably a lot more difficult for science fiction writers to conceive of and write a story about a highly evolved sentient race. Given the plausibility issues we've had thus far with alien race(s) that very much resemble humans, I'm not sure I'd want this show to tackle it. Even if the show's writers and producers are up to the challenge, however, I'm not sure how many of us conflict-ridden human viewers would identify with, enjoy and reward such a show with high Nielsen ratings.

Welcome to the SciFi Thread! You have asked a question that is like our mythical Pandora's box.
quote:Originally posted by ValentiFan:
(...)regarding the aliens' plan to preserve their most valuable players by hybridization with another species, why this species? Why this planet? What have we got that 80 zillion other species ain't got? Humanity? (...) But the sad truth is, there are Pierces and their ilk running around everywhere, and Michael can count the number of "safe" humans on the fingers of one hand. Can it be that this is the best there is?

I don't get a very encouraging picture of the homeworld, either, if the behavior of Nasedo and Whittaker is any indication (...)

Perhaps the answer is that Earth and humanity gives the podsters the same free will they had on the home planet. We may have Pierces on this planet, but they had the Whitakers on theirs.

Earth and the home planet must have a lot of similarites. Humanity may have been chosen for a number of reasons, but it seems that there is a definate biological advantage to having human DNA. But I do not know what that advantage is for sure.

***I must go back to watching the Nebraska/Oklahoma game****

In the discussion of cave pods and transport pods being organic or mechanical, I was wondering if anyone noticed this (or is it a figment of my imagination)?

In the very beginning of M2TM, the podsters enter the BatCave, and Tess grinningly assures them, "This is where we were all born!" The camera pans slowly over their faces, the pods, their faces, the pods, etc. The pods seemed very organic to me, complete with the gelatinous goo - - meant to take the place of the womb and amniotic sac. But, if you slo-mo, and look closely at the framework that supports the pods (like a TicTacToe grid, only for 4), at the place where the gridlines cross, there are flashing patterns of lights.

At first I had just assumed this was set decoration, and it may well be; but it seems significant to me that they were NOT just lights: you can recognize several of the alien symbols that have been flashing in series in the ending of the promos (with the 4 podsters posed outside the BatCave) - - the symbols that morph into the large word "Roswell". (I recall specifically a filled triangle with a dot placed in varying positions, as on a clock, maybe.)

So the light displays appear to me to be some kind of readout, an instrument panel - - to monitor and maintain the pods?

And I have pointed out on other sci-fi threads, that the symbols Max & Liz saw on the cave wall seemed "familiar" to all of the 3 aliens - - as the Whirlwind Galaxy Symbol had. Michael even figured out how to "navigate" them. But the symbols in Tess's BOOK seemed different, and mystifying to the podsters. The incubator readouts seem akin to these. So maybe there are two groups at work and two groups afoot, with questionable allegiances?

Since we're not too sure about consistency and logic while the WB is mindwarping our writers, I like to use literary logic to reason from the storytelling style (not always a safe bet either, but. . .), and try to make educated guesses, since none of our facts seems solid.

BACKGROUND (you can end here, but here is the backstory to what I'm saying)
No one has ever explained that BOOK, which seems to me excessively silly. No one can read it, or has; and the Mating Mandate depicted seems ludicrous if all 4 are to be AlienGreen Berets.

Also, Edsedo and Tess had a trunk full of pictures - - of MAX. (We were not shown pictures of anyone else; Max is almost never without the other 2, so it wasn't even easy to get isolated shots of him; and Liz verbally emphasizes when she escapes the Harding House that they were pictures of MAX!)

Tess also went into the Evans home and mindwarped Mrs. Evans into Show & Tell: complete pictorial and verbal history of the childhood of Iz and MAX. It sure would be easy to "tell what they were going to look like" if you already knew!

This leads us back to our regularly scheduled topic: about the possibility of two sets of pods, and even of two teams - - and maybe several sets of motives.

I've been thinking of the HomeWorld situation as comparable to the Middle East here (or pick your SAT war): there are groups within groups within groups. Some want peace; some want their "enemies" kneeling; some want enemies annihilated; some want everyone annihilated.

So if there's an arranged marriage of sorts, there could be a group wanting to thwart it for any number of reasons - - to mix two opposing side, or to prevent that; to unite two powerful houses against a foe, etc.

It's often been done in terrestrial treaties (the arranged marriage), and according to CW(?) they did get to Volandra through passion and "lu-huv" (as Kyle would say).

And Nasedo did seem to be very insistent on the subject of love - - an odd fellow to play Cupid. I've always suspected an ulterior motive there.

Like LSS, when I first saw this I thought it would be a totally fluff episode - - NAAAAHHT! I love the point ddawn made: it's a beginning to reweave the human/ alien connection. And that Nemo pointed out the perfect suitability for a second BatCave at Atherton's (and Michael was *so* drawn to it!); Steff's possibility of Doty giving the key to Hal.

Points in passing: could that base have become the "Eagle Rock Military Base", the alien Club Med-ical? Apparently shut down, but used covertly for years? I thought it was when I saw the corridors where they were holding the pods.

Pierce's litany of deaths didn't include the two soldiers at the base: I think because his were all heads or agents of the Special Unit?

I completely agree with Shapeshifter, that any species which could genetically engineer fertile hybrids, and with such precision, would have to be able to do it in a lab. They probably did lots of scouting and reconnaissance, but once they figured out our amino acid alphabet, they could probably mix and match at will. They even saw things that weren't there yet in reconizable form: the gifts. So I've kind of never bought that they'd have to do anything as messy as kidnap or murder a human just for a little DNA sample: it only takes a strand of hair.

Gotta go. I'll be on vacation and away from e-mail, so I won't even be able to follow this for 10 days! Thanks for the great ideas!

Welcome to the SciFi thread. LSS is our faithful leader, but she is not around right now to say hi. I am sure you will offer a lot of valuable points to our discussions.

quote:Originally posted by Kzinti_Killer:
In any event, here's the thread that I started. Go take a look if you will, then come back, as I have a few comments on what I've read in *this* thread so far.
http://bbs.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/001528.html#2

I will take a look at it!

quote:Originally posted by Kzinti_Killer:
(...)
Personally, going back to my original post, I think the first creche was hatched earlier and bombed out. Whether they were liquidated, or escaped their keepers is moot. If they were uncorked in the late 50's or early 60's they would be in early middle age by now.

This puts our human protagonists out of the running as podsters. I never seriously considered them. 1) As someone said, we'd know it by now. 2) We have no evidence pointing to it (references to adoption etc.) It does however leave them open, as possible first generation offspring of a mating between an earlier podster and a human, to having a few green corpuscles floating around in their blood. Or even second generation if the earlier podsters got amorous at an early age. A thin possibilty, but an intriguing one. Which begs the question, is a 3/4, or 7/8 human heritage enough to mask the alien DNA. And how does it affect any powers the individual has? Or do they have any at all? Interesting.

Very interesting idea! I thought I stated that I think the other set to be older, perhaps much older than our set of podsters. But I also said Tess is a part of the other set too. If the humans (Liz, Maria, Alex, Kyle (?)) are the offspring of the other set of podsters, then wouldn't their genetic code remain on the percentage mix of "human genetic material" to "alien essense"? I think that the other set of podsters would have to interbreed with humans to get the 1/2, 3/4, 7/8's mixes you refer to.

*Nebraska is really losing the game and Qfanny can't Behr to watch!*

Hi AlexEvans!

Welcome to the SciFi thread! Sorry, this is belated. I had the intent of rewatching Surprise before I responded. But I haven't gotten around to that yet. I thought that Whitaker's statement in Surprise was in reference to her skin alone. But I looked at the transcript at Crashdownn, and know I am not sure....

courtesy of Crashdown.com: no infrigement intended.
quote:
WHITAKER: The granilith. Don't pretend you don't know. We've been looking for it. We can't exist here like you...not in our natural state. We don't have the DNA. All we have are these...uh, skins. Our limit is 50 years. My time is almost up. I need to find the granilith if it's the last thing I do.
It does sound like she is talking about her whole life doesn't it? "All we have are these... uh, skins. Our limit is fifty years." The use of the word "our" instead of "its" is deliberate.

First of all, I rather not get into the CandiumX discussion either. I like the idea of a residue left from alien power use, but the whole S&B episode was rather scary. I still laugh over the whole cyclotron

To recap the "focus" discussion, as I recall, the word focus comes up a lot. You have to focus to use alien powers, you also have to focus a camera lens. A lens, like a prism, can take white light and break it out into a spectrum. When the aliens focus their powers, they are literally using their internal lens. The energy passes through the lens and color is produced. This could explain why TicTac shifts with a bluish hue and Harding with a yellowish hue. I also suggested that the internal lens can be used by human through a reverse connection- explaining Liz's ability to receive messages.

shapeshifter, you summed up this nicely by stating Max has glasses in a near sighted world and Liz gets to borrow them at times-- right?

Palomino: I like to state that your idea (2) that SSers, Skins, podster, and humans are branches of mankind goes along way to answering the logic holes. I am discounting Yvonne's statement to Hal. First, this is 1947. I think species typing has changed since then. My defination of mammal is live birth and hair. Yvonne did not really explain why she thought the beings were not mammals by saying, "They had no hair." Or, "They're reproductive organs were like birds."

Maybe instead of being future branches of mankind, we all are, descendants of the same pre-creation beings. But over the course of time and space, we developed our own traits.

I think Harding lied!

shapeshifter: I hope Maxcedo will not shapeshift into his Piercedo personality. I don't think I could take his humor today.

At first I had just assumed this was set decoration, and it may well be; but it seems significant to me that they were NOT just lights: you can recognize several of the alien symbols that have been flashing in series in the ending of the promos (with the 4 podsters posed outside the BatCave) - - the symbols that morph into the large word "Roswell". (I recall specifically a filled triangle with a dot placed in varying positions, as on a clock, maybe.)

So the light displays appear to me to be some kind of readout, an instrument panel - - to monitor and maintain the pods?

And I have pointed out on other sci-fi threads, that the symbols Max & Liz saw on the cave wall seemed "familiar" to all of the 3 aliens - - as the Whirlwind Galaxy Symbol had. Michael even figured out how to "navigate" them. But the symbols in Tess's BOOK seemed different, and mystifying to the podsters. The incubator readouts seem akin to these. So maybe there are two groups at work and two groups afoot, with questionable allegiances?...

Wow, Michelle, I hate to cut out any of your great thoughts/writing, but I just wanted to highlight this part and ask if anyone else saw this.

And Thank You for re-wording this idea in a way others will understand:
quote:Originally posted by Michelle in Yonkers:
I completely agree with Shapeshifter, that any species which could genetically engineer fertile hybrids, and with such precision, would have to be able to do it in a lab. They probably did lots of scouting and reconnaissance, but once they figured out our amino acid alphabet, they could probably mix and match at will. They even saw things that weren't there yet in reconizable form: the gifts. So I've kind of never bought that they'd have to do anything as messy as kidnap or murder a human just for a little DNA sample: it only takes a strand of hair.

quote:Originally posted by Qfanny:
...shapeshifter: I hope Maxcedo will not shapeshift into his Piercedo personality. I don't think I could take his humor today...

Oh, but I would love to see Piecedo again.

Hi JanetMG!

Earth, I believe, is not exactly on Main Street in the universe. If the Skins needed isolation, then Earth could have been chosen because of its remoteness.

For some reason, I don't think that the actions of humanity was a great concern for the aliens. Harding/TicTac have no problems killing when necessary. In fact, I think the events of WWI and WWII are key in the timeline. An alien race may see our world history, our conflicts among ourselves, a good cover for their setup. If anything strange happened, it could be blamed on the "secret weapon" of the allies or nazis. In fact, that is what Hal Carver intially thought about the crash. He thought it was the Soviets.

I will have to watch M2TM again and see if you are right. You've left me really wondering!!!

quote:Originally posted by Michelle in Yonkers:
Points in passing: [b]could that base have become the "Eagle Rock Military Base", the alien Club Med-ical? Apparently shut down, but used covertly for years? I thought it was when I saw the corridors where they were holding the pods.

Pierce's litany of deaths didn't include the two soldiers at the base: I think because his were all heads or agents of the Special Unit?

Now, I thought that the 509 AirUnit (Nemo, if you're lurking 5+0+9=14, 1+4=5) base was Eagle Rock Military Base. It just got renamed at some point and built up.

As far as Pierce not know about Pfiffer and MacArthy's silver iron on deaths, I wonder why? It seems like a big hole that needs to be answered. But maybe because these two soldiers were not FBI special unit agents, he didn't mention them. Why would an alien killer remember two random soldiers?

"Palomino: I like to state that your idea (2) that SSers, Skins, podster, and humans are branches of mankind goes along way to answering the logic holes. I am discounting Yvonne's statement to Hal. First, this is 1947. I think species typing has changed since then. My defination of mammal is live birth and hair. Yvonne did not really explain why she thought the beings were not mammals by saying, "They had no hair." Or, "They're reproductive organs were like birds." "

Qfanny, maybe she had been looking for nipples. Having disected many mammals(as well as bids, fish,etc), I can say that there are many differences between species of mammals, and also many similarities between reptiles, birds, mammals, fish, etc. I have yet to see nipples on a fish, reptile, bird, or amphibian, so maybe she was going by nipples. Maybe this factor seemed so unusual, that she jumped to a conclusion, maybe correctly.

Points in passing: could that base have become the "Eagle Rock Military Base", the alien Club Med-ical? Apparently shut down, but used covertly for years? I thought it was when I saw the corridors where they were holding the pods.

Roswell Army Air Field became Walker Air Force Base, a Strategic Air Command base that held hydrogen bombs. Extremely top secret stuff. No doubt that there were/are expensive and super-secret facilities on Walker that the rest of us couldn't know about, and that those who do know will never talk about. So I like the idea that after it's closing in 1966, part of Walker became the Eagle Rock facility.

Welcome to the SciFi thread!

I am glad you posted on Walker Air Base and helped us out a bit! I know very little about military operations.

This is evening's nudge!

quote:Originally posted by CedarCircle:
Roswell Army Air Field became Walker Air Force Base, a Strategic Air Command base that held hydrogen bombs. Extremely top secret stuff. No doubt that there were/are expensive and super-secret facilities on Walker the rest of us couldn't know about, and that those who do know will never talk about....

CedarCircle, good to hear from you again. Awhile back, it seemed that when others would declare bloopers, you would look for possible ways to reconcile things that didn't need anyone to be altogether wrong. I always appreciated your style.

About the Eagle Rock facility -- when was the White Room built? Pierce said one of the aliens captured after the '47 crash was held in the White Room for 3 years. He didn't say how long after the crash that one was captured, nor whether that one was held somewhere else for a time and only later transferred to the White Room.

Qfanny, what an intriguing coincidence about the numbers 509 -> 14 ->5. The 509th Bomb Group was a historic one. In July 1947, based at Roswell Army* Air Field, it was still the only military unit in the world equipped with nuclear weapons. It was part of the equally historic 8th Air Force. Did you notice their symbol on the shoulder patches: a winged 8 enclosing a five-pointed star? Seems like an eerie coincidence, in this episode where the number 8 suddenly became important.
------

* The US Air Force became a separate branch of the service on 18 Sept 1947 (established by the National Security Act signed by President Truman on 26 July 1947), but was still part of the Army at the time of our story a few weeks earlier.

Qfanny : If the SSers wanted to avoid the inefficiency and risk of females carrying offspring, they might have genetically engineered their race to not have nipples or organs to carry young. Perhaps all they needed were organs for sperm and egg production. Maybe this capability was for only a limited number of SSers that were the best specimins. Enough for a wide gene pool, but eliminating excess. Others could mate, etc, but just not reproduce. Maybe Harding enjoyed the diddling, maybe it was just another role (roll ) to get info from the CW. Maybe he just was sterile, but capable.
The aliens we saw seemed to be sexless, externally. They could be like birds with nothing external. (In fact male birds don't even have one if you get my drift. I don't want to be too explicit here.)

~Sheri

~Sheri

from http://iufomrc.org/incident.htm :
quote:Glenn Dennis drove out to the base hospital later that evening where he saw large pieces of wreckage with strange engravings on one of the pieces sticking out of the back of a military ambulance. Upon entering the hospital he started to visit with a nurse he knew, when suddenly he was threatened by military police and forced to leave.

The next day, Glenn Dennis met with the nurse. She told him about the bodies and drew pictures of them on a prescription pad. Within a few days she was transferred to England, her whereabouts still unknown.

See also: http://www.csicop.org/si/9507/roswell.html where the names of Marcel and Cavett come up.

I have a student I'm supposed to meet with in another matter who is a 'believer' who interviewed a 'witness' for a paper she did. I'll ask her about it if I get a chance.

--Librarian Lady

If the aliens really are aliens, and not some cheezy future humans from a hoaky timetravel plot, then these creatures might not fall into any of our catagories, and their homeworld would have a whole different classification of species in probably different kingdoms. The SSers may be egg layers or external fertilizers like fish.(Maybe girls there really can get pregnant from going swimming with a boy!)

I just hope the aliens really are aliens and fall into none of our known catagories.

As for the real nurse saying that they were not mammals, I believe she said they were not humans(unearthly). She also said they had a different number of fingers with little suction cups on the tips, stunk terribly, and were the size of children. She did draw a picture for the funeral director that supplied the child-sized coffins. Her story was given only secondhand through him. He said she was killed in a plane crash, so she was dead long before this story came out decades later, and could not verify anything she supposedly said.

To go back to the points whether or not the sacks were organic or mechanical, I think that the sacks were in fact organic. But it seems to me in the pod chamber that there were life support features in place around the chamber. So maybe when initially made, the pods/fetus do not need the aid of machinery. But to have the pods/children grow into six year old kids may require "extra" measures. Even people who are in comas need the help of machines. At some point, the fetus are going to use up whatever energy source the pod provided naturally and they will either have to emerge to be nutured or have there incubation manually adapted.

We don't know yet the gestation period of the SSers or how human DNA would affect it. If SSers are not mammals(SO47), then we don't know how they feed their young, and we don't know how dependent SSer children are on their parents. It might not have been just for the hardwiring that they were in the pods for so long. Hybrids between vastly different species from different planets is difficult enough to breed, but to keep them alive as babies might have been the biggest hurdle.

The point you bring across with yolks is what I had in the back of my head, I just didn't have the vocabulary to bring it across to the thread. Interesting idea about how the sacks/pods grew with the podsters. What is your take on the "white suits" that the podster children are wearing when hatching from the pods? The drippy stuff to me looks like tubing of somesort, perhaps functioning like many umbical cords.

You know, I think I've learned more about science from you and this thread than I ever did in school. (I bet that scares you!) I think LSS will be surprised at how much we've scraped off of this episode. From glowiness to mammals, you've been a big help!

Night everyone! Tomorrow will bring forth more SciFi to ponder! LSS, thanks for thinking of me! Looking forward to tomorrow's discussion.

Nemo, if you're somewhere out there, what does your wife think of my theory?

Hmmm... can't completely buy it, but it is certainly imaginative. I love theories like that. Especially since it would mean Isabel didn't betray her family after all.

Today is the End of the World! Yippee! (You know, there is a certain irony in saying that so deliberately. Let's hope the World does not really end.)

HAL: They looked like human fetuses. There was 4 to a sac. 8 total. That night, I packed my things and never came back. The base was on full alert. There was no way anybody or anything else could have escaped...and that's the story of Hal Carver. The only time I ever stuck my neck out to save anything...and it all went to hell.

He(my hubbie) swears that there are 8 sacs, 4 hybrids in each sac, 32 all together... His reasoning behind that is if your race is dying and is about to be eliminated, wouldn't you send more than 8? Wouldn't you send your poets, artists, atheletes, religious leaders, a whole spectrum of your lost society. People who are wealthy and well contected in politics would want to send themselves too or their children??

Does anyone else think that there may be 32 instead of 8????

I just saw a special on the UFO sightings called the Pearl Necklace. It is a group of lights in the sky. Scientists have studied the videos of these and feel they could be powered by the manipulation of earth's magnetic field. Maybe this is why our podster's people chose earth. We had the right magnetic field.

Back to the pearl necklace... these scientists say there are 7 primary and 12 secondary. (the primary lights are brighter and tend to fly more independently, while the 12 fly in a tight group, often in three groups of four). With the sightings have come earthly dissasters, some call them messages of destiny....

Now, here is the interesting part, the Pearl Necklace looks a lot like the stars in sexual healing and other Roswell episodes. When they move into the V formation. I wonder if the writers are incorporating some of this into the story?? It could be intersting if they do...

What do you all think?? What about those numbers? I apologize if you feel this isn't related at all, it just seemed so familiar as I watched it... Maybe I just have Roswell on the brain!!

~Sheri

Just got back from Canada. On behalf of all the lurkers and posters on this thread I would like to thank Qfanny for the excellent job she has done over the week-end of monitoring this thread!!!

LSS

As a biological necessity, human babies are covered with a waxy or slimy coating. Birth goes a little easier, with some lubrication...

OTOH, most human (and other) babies are born naked. If our six-year-old podsters were shown naked, There Would Be Problems. A nice coating of slime (looks like KY Jelly and/or silicone caulk, over Saran Wrap) keeps things decent. The streams of goo coming out of the containers would be roughly cylindrical, hence looking like tubing.