1. GETTING TO KNOW YOU (ON A CELLULAR LEVEL). In the introduction and the scene with Izzy holding the rescued girl's hand we are treated to a frame that looks like a group of cells. [And of course there is the preview for next week that continues the theme.] Who is this girl? What affinity does she have with Izzy? And what is Grant's role? And why didn't we have any dead bodies after the Valenti obviously hit the shooter?

2. KYLE AS FREAKAZOID. Of course, we've long questioned exactly what will be happening to Kyle as a result of Max healing him. Kyle's fears of transmogrification (changing into another shape) strike us as humorous. But lizard hands aside, did you think that Kyle's attitude was a curious blend of fear and curiosity? I mean, he asked for a second bite didn't he?

3. DAN -- THE FRIEND YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE. It would appear we have a new nemesis on the scene...one that threatens our beloved Valenti. Was I the only one that thought he was more than what he seemed? Why all the attention on Max and Liz?

Those are just a few of the things I noted...what do you think folks? Anything you thought interesting (in a SF way that is).

LSS

LSS

I am glad you made it through the holidays in one piece. I think I am still recovering.

Anyway-- some of our questions I don't think I can answer without getting into spoilerish material, so I am not going to even try to answer them. But here are a few thoughts you raise.

And why didn't we have any dead bodies after the Valenti obviously hit the shooter?

Good question: It really seemed like there was someone injuried in the brush. More reason to suspect suspicion on Dan's part. He came out and revealed himself at the exact time Valenti and Max were starting to go after him. (I'll see if my opinion changes with the second viewing.)

....did you think that Kyle's attitude was a curious blend of fear and curiosity? I mean, he asked for a second bite didn't he?

Well, I am not sure how SciFi this answer is, but I think that the oh-hum attitude of Liz contrasted well with the OMG attitude of Kyle. Probably the writers are prepping us up for their "change" to be somewhere in the middle. As you know, I understand Kyle's reactions more than I do Liz's. Just my .02 worth.

DAN -- THE FRIEND YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE.
LSS. I am sure it didn't escape you just how many parallels there were with Dan and Topolsky. I think Jim is correct that Dan is not there to investigate the Hubble case. He's there to find out more about the aliens. Notice his coy interest in the Evans from the moment he entered Valenti's office. At Senior Chows, (the only restuarant where government officers can discuss alien cases) how he asked for more Sweet and Spicy tortillas (Thanks metaphysicsgal). Also, it seemed to me on first viewing the Dan witnessed everything that happened in Frazier Woods.

I jumped for joy when he threatened Jim to get "to the bottom of this."

This episode felt like Crazy in so many ways. I am very happy with it!

What about Max stopping the bullets?

The bullets were not damage, in fact, they were still in perfect condition. I would think that Max's shield would be like a wall, and the bullets would still hit it with full impact and be broken or damaged. As they were not, I can only believe that the energy sheild Max exerts held the bullets in place and he had to force them to the ground somehow.

What do you think?

The bullets were not damage, in fact, they were still in perfect condition. I would think that Max's shield would be like a wall, and the bullets would still hit it with full impact and be broken or damaged. As they were not, I can only believe that the energy sheild Max exerts held the bullets in place and he had to force them to the ground somehow.

[/B]

Hi Qfanny!

Wonderful to "see" you again!

You know, we've seen that field before. It almost functions like a force field. But a VERY temporary and somewhat shaky one. It seems to be fueled by Max himself. If that is the case (that it is fueled by its organic point of origin) then it would explain its somewhat unstable appearance. I mean, it works, but only in short bursts.

As for the untouched nature of the bullets--it is as if the forward momentum is absorbed or cushioned. There appears to be no firm point of impact does there?

And speaking of bullets...did you notice the target? Valenti. Valenti is the target in this eppy on two different levels. The question is, are the two related?

LSS

Good question: It really seemed like there was someone injuried in the brush. More reason to suspect suspicion on Dan's part. He came out and revealed himself at the exact time Valenti and Max were starting to go after him. (I'll see if my opinion changes with the second viewing.)

What about Max stopping the bullets?

The bullets were not damage, in fact, they were still in perfect condition. I would think that Max's shield would be like a wall, and the bullets would still hit it with full impact and be broken or damaged. As they were not, I can only believe that the energy sheild Max exerts held the bullets in place and he had to force them to the ground somehow.

What do you think?

[/B]

1)I got the impression with all of the sniper gear the shooter had on (BTW, I think the shooter was Grant, because when I replayed it frame by frame, it sure looked to me like that was Grant's bushy eyebrow) the shooter had on a bullet-proof vest; and was only knocked back by the low-velocity pistol bullet Valenti fired. It's possible.

2)Contrary to your thinking the bullets hit Max's energy shield with full force, in the replay, it showed them a) entering the field b)decelerating and c) subsequently tumbling on a 180 degree return course... It seems to me, that the description of Max's "Jello" shield is pretty accurate-- in that Jello is flexible and absorbant- just like Max's energy shield is flexible and it absorbs the force of the bullets' momentum.

The shield appears to quickly decelerate the bullets, much like an airbag decelerating someone's head in a car accident. Now, following that, it is plausible that the bullets would be undamaged, and have only fallen to the ground after being repelled. With what I know from my honors physics class...lol...

It's entirely possible for the bullets to have been decelerated by the field, and following the Law of Convservation of Momentum, the bullet's forward momentum (mass x velocity) (which, I might add- that they were sniper's bullets-- so they were traveling very fast) was absorbed by the energy field.; and then the bullets simply then followed the course of action I outlined above. This also sets the scene for Max's "I can't keep this up" line, because the bullets were going so fast, the shield had to use a lot of energy to slow them down; and that took its toll on Max. Just my thoughts.

The bullets, yeah, I thought Valenti hit the assailant, but I guess not. As for the bullets being undamaged, Max's shield seemed sort of rubbery, and thus was cushioning the bullets. Sort of like the difference between jumping out of a window and landing on a trampoline (no damage because the surface "gives") and landing on the street (inflexible surface - lots of damage).

Dan I'm wondering if Dan is another member of that secret FBI department that Piercedo disbanded. Just because there's no longer a department doesn't mean the members stopped being obsessed. He seemed *waaayyy* too interested in Max and Iz from the start. Shades of Topolsky indeed.

Kyle. I'm glad to see they're addressing his "change". Notice that they've said he's actually part alien now. That's quite a change!!! I wonder what he can "do"? I loved that scene with the Tabasco sauce.

It's late and I can't think of anything else right now.

I think that the shooter was Grant. I was staring very intently and it looked like him. Wouldn't it make sense being that he was the only one who knew about the girl? I mean, that what we got.

Kyle is just so great. I was reading on the discussion board and I saw someone was wondering why they were focusing on Kyles change and not Lizs. I think its because Kyle isn't accepting the healing as easily as Liz and it makes it more humorous. Thats what I thought at least. Your thoughts?

Yeah, I can see how the girl (henceforth refered to as "Laurie) could be part of Isabel's genetic makeup- but I don't think she's the basis...She'd have to be awfully old for her DNA to be the basis for Isabels...BUT it's possible Laurie is a descendant of Isabel's DNA donor.

I think that the way Liz and Kyle are reacting differently is all centred on character. Liz has thrown herself body and soul in with the aliens from the beginning, so, of course, the changes wouldn't be so unexpected and unwanted. She has experienced flashes from Max for quite a while and from the way she is behaving, it is clear that she is pleased by anything that connects them more strongly to each other.

As for Kyle, he has been drawn into this situation completely against his will - first by Max stealing his girlfriend, then his father's attention, then saving his life (not that I'm sure he's not grateful <g> ), then by Tess moving in, then by the whole EOTW fiasco...it would make more sense for him to be completely freaked (although I agree with you LSS that he seemed sort of intrigued too!)

I think their dreams at the beginning reflect this as well - Kyle's was creepy while Liz's came back to Max AGAIN - she always tries to pretend that she wants normal, but her subconcious always gives her away (and my dreamy heart is glad of it!LOL)

All in all, I found this episode to be VERY interesting.

I agree with whoever said that they thought the sniper was Grant - I recognized that creepy eye too! Also, there has just GOT to be something up with that guy. I hate him too much for there not to be! LOL

I cannot think of another example like this myself. But maybe you all can refer to some other story you've read or seen.

The bullets seem to be absorbed and bouced back. Anyone in the field of physics here? What is your take on physical properties of Max's shield? (Although, bullets verses Skins, I think bullets have the advantage. Could it be because of the biological nature of the shield?)

Isabel's visions seemed to be a combination of sleepwalking and her awake visions from 'Surprise'. Usually when Isabel sleepwalks she has a lot of control, when she gets the visions, they come to her as if she is picking them up-something internally is alerted and she recieves the 'SOS' messages. This time she was asleep, but having no control over the way the vision progressed or if she entered or left it-she just 'received it' like a radar would pick up a distress signal. It's cool to see her powers expand this way.

Kyle and his changes. Well just as the alien quartet's have powers of varying strengths (all can manipulate matter, but Michael destroys the best, Isabel and Tess invade minds the best, and Max heals the best and has the snazzy forcefield) I think Kyle's changes will manifest differently from Liz. He'll have a lilnk to Max somehow since he was the one to save him, but I doubt it'll be one where he can communicate to him via Isabel or something.

Come to think of it, what if Kyle's dream was hinting at something? He seemed to think that the alien change would turn him into a freak (and you kinda sensed that he thought of that possibility as him becoming a evil, wierd freak). What if despite Tess and Liz's teasing that were true? What if this change Max caused in Kyle caused some bad genes or powers to occur and Kyle goes dark? Maybe the hybrid chronicles will reveal not only the idenity of the human DNA donors of the quartet, but reveal a little more of the sci-fi behind human alien hybrids as well as humans who were tainted or changed from being simply human to being less human.

Just some thoughts
nickle

What was the "scientific equipment" in Grant's bag? It did not look like stuff a geologist uses to study the Earth. It looked like a fancy radio or radar device to me. His equipment just did not fit what I expect a geologist to use. Doesn't mean that he can't, it just stood out for me.

Did anyone sort of think that the equipment was of a more alien nature, which is why he freaked out when Valenti searched the bag anyway without a warrant?

How did Dan know where the Sheriff was going? Did he hear more of Max's side of the phone conversation than Valenti realized, did he tail Valenti by conventional means, or did he know where Valenti was going?

I'm pretty sure Valenti would know whether Dan could hear, and that he didn't. The delay seems rather long- but he might have remained in hiding until he heard gunshots then run out, so it is possible. But I'm guessing that Dan knew where the girl was all along- that he and Grant are working together.

Also, Maria's cousin Sean- Maria seemed to think time off for good behavior was a surprise. Maybe he got out of jail by agreeing to spy on his cousin and her friends.

I like what people have been saying about Kyle's reaction, and about Max's shield, but I don't have anything to add to those discussions.

Hi all...
Unless you are referring to a different quote, I think that that whole thing was about Valenti saying that he had witnesses to the "abduction"... meaning Izzy's dreamwalking (which, of course, he couldn't tell Dan about), and that the second witness must have been Max.
I kept thinking that Valenti should tell Dan that Izzy was a psychic or something... that would throw Dan off the "alien" trail.

Did Isabel's casual use of dreamwalking bother anyone else? In the past, we've seen her use it in order to assess the dangers from different people, or in White Room, to communicate with Max. But here, it seemed like she was just using it for entertainment, a pretty poor excuse for invading people's privacy.

What ethics would apply to using powers like dreamwalking or mindwarp?

Well this episode sure did give us a lot to think about and brought up so many questions! I'm really enjoying the Hybrid issues.

Everyone's comments so far have been great!

QFanny Upon first viewing I didn't notice Dan requesting more sweet and spicy tortillas. Thanks for mentioning that!

About the girl (Laurie) who was basically buried alive. This must have something to do with alien motives. At first I thought that Grant was just some sort of stalker, but it must go deeper than that. I agree with whoever mentioned something about Grant's equipment, unusual, and especially to be carrying it around in a body bag!!!

I also think it's interesting that Valenti is feeling the heat from so many directions - Dan, Melissa's family, and Grant. I think that Melissa's family is a human foe that will blow over, but Dan and Grant aren't going away too quickly. They've given us clues that perhaps Dan is alien. And we've never gotten an explanation about the cut Grant had in Surprise. Will Grant show up in the next episode with a very sore shoulder (from being shot)?

Kath7 Thank you for your comments about Liz and Kyle and how they are handling their new part-alien status. Very well put!

My biggest questions from this episode are:

1. Why was this girl being kept alive underground? Why wasn't she just killed? Why if she was going to be studied, keep her underground? It seems it'd be easier to study her above ground.

2. My other question is a less sci-fi, but I'm just dying to know more about what is going on in Liz's head. Why one minute confessing to an obsession with Max and the next minute getting so distracted by Sean? Does Sean have some other-worldly pull on Liz?

So many new people and new questions! It seems to me we could have stories for 3, 4, and 5 more seasons at this rate. I look forward to reading more of everyone's thoughts.

Cousin Sean shows up just when Liz is having a Planet/Hormonal disturbance/alignment?
Is he related to Grandpa Breepa DeLuca (mentioned in SO47) or Granma (mentioned in WipeOUt?)

Okay Izz's "connection" to the girl. I'm thinking that this girl's gene-line provided Izz's human DNA. Either that, or at some point in the past she was "healed" by an alien, and her state is that of being further into "the change" that will someday overtake Liz, Kyle, and the kids.

About the shield, it resembles some long haired stuff that I've read about electro-magnetics. The further the bullet would go into such a shield the greater the force eddies it would create and the stronger the resistance. I wonder if it has vulnerablities similar to the body shields in Dune. "The slow blade penetrates the shield." -Gurney Hallek

I think they're focusing on Kyle's change for two reasons. One, we've already been there and done that with Liz. And two, Kyle's paranoia is such a neat chew toy for Tess...without being mean. *g*

And I think Danny boy is just the opening shot in a new salvo from our old buddies the skins. If you can't whip'em, alert the authorities....and let *them* whip'em.

As for why there was no body at the shooting scene, why get complicated where simplicity will do. It seemed to me that Valenti hit the shooter. Now cops are trained not to be fancy. No "shooting the gun out of the other guy's hands" or head shoots. You shoot at the biggest target. The torso. All the guy had to do was wear a flak jacket. He'll have a bruise and be sore as hell, but he'd walk (or crawl) away. Interesting that Dan showed up in time to delay pursuit long enough for the shooter to bug out. You wanna know who the shooter is? Watch for the person who acts like a middle aged man who tried to keep up with the gen-Xer's at the gym. He's going to be *sore*. And stiff. And have a colossal bruise.

Hmm, having thoughts about some sort of anti-alien militia..... *g*

Ooops, I missed something. Archetypes again. Is "To Serve and Protect" referring to Valenti? Oooooor, to the podsters' role in relation to Earth and humanity? *g* They were certainly earning their paycheck in this ep.

Just my thoughts:
I think it might be more reasonable to view the bullets/force field from an energy transfer viewpoint. If the collision of the bullet with the field were perfectly elastic, then you can use conservation of momentum.

In our case the bullet's kinetic energy (0.5 mv^2) is converted into a potential energy in the field (F*ds, assuming 1 dimension). Since the bullets did not come flying back out of the field as fast as they went in, then some of the energy is being converted into another form (LSS would say Max generates heat, but that's another topic.....), hence the field in not conservative.

As to the field origins... EM fields tend to be the most commonly thought of. It may be possible for Max to generate one (electric eels generate a huge potential), but bullets tend to be metallic and conductive... Gravity operates over the largest distance, but it tends to only be attractive (again LSS would say something about Max), and I don't know how to generate one (unless of course, as is stated, that there is no such thing as gravity, its just that the universe sucks..) Strong nuclear is an interesting one. It is the strongest of all forces and helps determine nuclear structure, but its range is very limited. Would it be possible for Max to generate mesons and baryons and have it interact with the nuclei in the bullets? IT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING TO EXAMINE THE NUCLEAR STRUCTURE OF THE BULLETS TO DETERMINE IF THEY HAVE BEEN CHANGED.

And did anyone else notice that this is the first time they've shown Tess using Tobasco sauce?
quote:
About the girl (Laurie) who was basically buried alive. This must have something to do with alien motives. At first I thought that Grant was just some sort of stalker, but it must go deeper than that. I agree with whoever mentioned something about Grant's equipment, unusual, and especially to be carrying it around in a body bag!!!

My theory on why Grant buried the girl:

I think Grant and Dan are both part of the Special Unit, though I suspect it's always been more military than FBI. (Did anyone else think Dan looked enough like Pierce to have been his older brother?) Somehow, they've picked up on something about the aliens, and associated it with Laurie. In Into the Woods last year, the mysterious light in the sky must have attracted more attention than just Valenti and Milton. The alien hunters must figure aliens are hanging around there, or have a communication device hidden there. I think Grant buried the girl, and set up this system to keep her alive for awhile, in Frasier woods, because he thinks she's an alien, and will give off a signal in distress that will help them learn how aliens communicate, and also allow them to observe and/or capture any aliens who pick up on her distress signals and come to her aid. That's why the hunters were watching the site. They don't want to kill the aliens, they want to study them. But Valenti, who they know is human, is expendable, and he'd get in the way of their plans.

The alledgedly photosensitive equipment might be the kind of gear for reading electromagnetic radiation used in remote sensing.

quote:
I also think it's interesting that Valenti is feeling the heat from so many directions - Dan, Melissa's family, and Grant. I think that Melissa's family is a human foe that will blow over, but Dan and Grant aren't going away too quickly. They've given us clues that perhaps Dan is alien. And we've never gotten an explanation about the cut Grant had in Surprise. Will Grant show up in the next episode with a very sore shoulder (from being shot)?

I like your suggestion that Sean's a plant. I also think there was something a little too coincidental about Melissa's mom, and the whole Melissa thing. Apparently, Valenti hasn't seen Melissa's mom in a long time, even though they live in a small town. So why now does she turn up in the place where the sherrif eats regularly, with a story she "lets" Valenti drag out of her about a missing daughter? Coincidentally, her daughter looks similar to Lori, and drives a silver car.

I noticed a lot of "lookalikes" tonight, though I don't know if it means anything.

1)the first time I saw Melissa's mom, it was a quick look, then cut back to Valenti, and I could have sworn it was Topolsky.

2)I already mentioned Dan's resemblance to Pierce.

3)Sean (played by the guy who played Richie on Highlander?) bears a striking resemblance to a younger Ed Harding. Besides the hair, I really noticed the jaw and chin, even though the face is wider, and Sean's build is chunkier. Harding had distinctive creases on either side of his mouth. Sean's face has slight folds there now, and they will become more pronounced as he ages, and frame the chin in a similar way.

4)We never saw him, but Eddie in the kitchen? Reservation Eddie? Even if I could imagine him letting Liz disrespect him like that, I can't imagine him applying for work at the Crashdown, given his attitude about it the time he visited Liz there. So is this a third, unrelated character named Edward?

I've got a complaint about the way the crime scene tech described the bullets, and the way Dan reacted. I suspect he meant that there was none of the deformation you'd expect if the bullet had hit something. But he said it had no scratches, etc at all. I've watched enough eps of Forensic Files on the Discovery Channel to know that every gun leaves distinctive scratches on a bullet when it's fired. Whereas a bullet could just complete its gravitational trajectory without hitting anything. So a perfectly smooth bullet that was known to have been fired would raise more questions about the gun than about whether it hit anything.

The oxygen supply tanks. I'm used to seeing gases delivered in K-bottles, which are usually big tall green things that look like torpedos. The tanks shown on the show were small and silver, like vacuum cryo tanks. This would be the case if you had liquid Oxygen and then used the boil off for the gas. Does anyone know if that is how the GO2 for breathing is handled? Anyone in the medical profession?

Kudos, Oxidizer lines are green, they did get those right.

or maybe because they have used they`re powers more than before they`re powers r increasing like muscles. i mean before all of the events after liz parker got shot they rarely used tehy`re powers because they hid more.

Grant's equipment. Didn't Grant say it was for night-time vision, for investigating caverns? And then we see Valenti being watched through a target-site... at night. I think this points even more strongly to Grant as the assailant, since he had the visual equipment already. Also, Izzy "saw" Grant as the attacker, and since everything else about her vision was correct, why wouldn't this be, too?

Sweet and Spicy - I didn't notice that at all, but good point!! That *can't* be coincidental.

Why Laurie was kept alive: I thought maybe it had to do with the cellular connection to Isabel. Perhaps the Skins (or some other evil alien) are planning on making more clones? They would need to keep her alive for her genetic content.

Oh, and I agree... she couldn't necessarily be *the* basis for Isabel because of the age thing... unless we find out later that Laurie was adopted, in which case we know nothing about her creation. Maybe she was also "engineered" (although she might still be entirely human), and frozen as an embryo? (ok, so maybe that's too advanced for the 1940s...) But I definitely think Laurie and Is share a common genetic heritage. They look a lot alike, too.

BTW, slightly OT, has anyone else wondered how the podsquad's "essences" were combined with human DNA in the first place? They were already in the pods, already "made" when the ship arrived on Earth. How did their alien parents/engineers come by the human DNA on their own planet?

The Oxygen tanks. I was sort of in the medical profession for a while (speech therapist -- interned at a hospital). You're right about most medical O2 being in those smaller bottles. But maybe the container isn't important. What is important is that you can't breathe pure oxygen for any length of time, so I can only hope that Laurie was receiving compressed air, not pure O2.

Still odd why that girl was being kept undergound in the woods. Doesn't make sense to me. Obviously Grant is involved here. Is he one of the skins with a special mission to keep the girl away from our aliens or to study her to make better bodies for them?

So Sean is Richie from Highlander...I KNEW he looked very familiar but the short hair threw me off

As for the blending of essences, I have the inklings of a great fanfic, but I'm not certain if it applies here. Assume the girl is a the fully human descendant of those whose DNA was tapped to create one of the Pod Squad. Presumably Izzy. Out of a whole planet to chose from, would the Twilonians have picked just any DNA? Remember, Nacedo said that the Podsters abilities were fully human...just a bit ahead of schedule. Perhaps the girl's whole bloodline is "a bit ahead of schedule"? That's why they were chosen as donors. Iz said it was like "she was dreamwalking *me*". If so, this would explain both the connection, and her ability (albeit subconciously) to reach out to Iz.

Why was the girl in the woods? Simple. Bait. She was the cheese in the mousetrap. This creates several problems.

1)Who was that masked man? Your run of the mill whacko? I don't buy it. He took the girl, and hid her with great pains to keep her alive. Then awaited devleopments. He had the place staked out with a *very* pricey sniper rifle. And he made no clever calls to the police and no ransom demands.

2)This leads to several uncomfortable ideas.

a) He knew that someone would come.

b) It implies he knew that placing the girl under threat would trip Izzy's alarms.

c) He knows what the Podsters are.

d) He knows their connection to Valenti.

e) And for all that his target *seems* to be Valenti. Why?

Points a,b,c,&d all imply he's a skin. Point e does not.

Oooooooo, resolving this one will be fun!

Off the subject, something hit me last night. Nacedo is dead. But we know they have no corpse to show for it. So how did Valebti "get custody" of Tess? That's been bugging me.

Oh, and I agree... she couldn't necessarily be *the* basis for Isabel because of the age thing... unless we find out later that Laurie was adopted, in which case we know nothing about her creation. Maybe she was also "engineered" (although she might still be entirely human), and frozen as an embryo? (ok, so maybe that's too advanced for the 1940s...) But I definitely think Laurie and Is share a common genetic heritage. They look a lot alike, too.

BTW, slightly OT, has anyone else wondered how the podsquad's "essences" were combined with human DNA in the first place? They were already in the pods, already "made" when the ship arrived on Earth. How did their alien parents/engineers come by the human DNA on their own planet?

[/B]

First the Laurie being kept alive underground thing--I'm going with the people who have speculated that Laurie was just being kept alive for bait. I hadn't thought about the possibility that Grant might be part of the FBI's Special Unit. That would make more sense than him being an alien, since presumably all five alien races now know what Isabel/Vilandra looks like as a human after seeing Lonnie at the summit. Somehow, I think Laurie was supposed to draw Isabel out and expose Isabel's powers. Maybe the people who kidnapped Laurie knew she had a genetic connection to Isabel and that it would make it more likely for Isabel to hone in on her. The Special Unit held one of the shapeshifters for years and presumably learned a lot about the aliens' powers.

Second, do we know for sure that the podsters already had human DNA when they crashed to Earth? How much did they show in Sof47? It seems much more likely that Nasedo and the other shapeshifter would have hidden the pods and then grabbed some human DNA and somehow injected it in the pods to get the hybrids after the crash.

And just kind of throwing something else out there, is it possible that Isabel is only capable of getting visions from people that she's somehow connected to, maybe genetically? She's only gotten visions from Tess and Laurie. She's never gotten visions from other crime victims in the Roswell area. And they've got to be out there.

Plumeria and talon402, Laurie was in Roswell to see her grandparents. They would have been alive in 47, and so potentially DNA donors. I wonder what Is's reaction would be to a full DNA donor?

But how did Grant know to kidnap her and what was he doing with her?

quote:Originally posted by Adrian
About the girl (Laurie) who was basically buried alive. This must have something to do with alien motives. …
1. Why was this girl being kept alive underground? Why wasn't she just killed? Why if she was going to be studied, keep her underground? It seems it'd be easier to study her above ground. .

quote:Originally posted by Kzinti_Killer
Hmm, having thoughts about some sort of anti-alien militia..... *g*.

quote:Originally posted by pixiedude
I think Grant buried the girl, and set up this system to keep her alive for awhile, in Frasier woods, because he thinks she's an
alien, and will give off a signal in distress that will help them learn how aliens communicate, and also allow them to observe and/or capture any aliens who pick up on her distress signals and come to her aid. That's why the hunters were watching the site. They don't want to kill the aliens, they want to study them.

There are some very interesting ideas here. I'm still unsure of Dan's place in all of this, but I think Grant is working for some separate non-government group [anti-alien militia ]. Hubble's death is a big part of Valenti's story line, but maybe it's important to the whole picture. Hubble had been underground for thirty years hunting aliens, but he was still a huge figure in the UFOlogists world. Who has all the information Hubble collected during that time? Who funded him? He appeared to act alone.

Hubble is shot, and within six months Grant shows up on the scene. He also appears to act alone, but he has enough funding for some pretty expensive equipment. He also had to have information from somewhere that Laurie was important to whatever he's looking/digging for. He obviously knew someone would come, why else was he watching the burial spot in his sniper outfit? Unless he had just been tipped off by Valenti's interest in his equipment, and the choice of Laurie was random. She was just some test specimen for his experimental setup.

Adrian, I also don't understand why he had to bury her. In some ways the plexiglass head-box made me think of physiological/stress experiments. The fact that Grant has no facility to take the girl to is another point in favor of him working for a smaller private group, unlike Pierce's access to the old military base in TWR. Even Grant's equipment, taken totally at face value, points to private funding and that he is working alone in Roswell. What a pain to have a large, photo sensitive piece of equipment that you have to keep and lug around in a black body bag. If Grant had access to local facilities, that equipment would be kept in a dark room until he drove out to some cave where he could then set it up. I don't have any real insights on the equipment. Qfanny, I definitely think it's current human technology, but I have no idea what it was. All I really saw was a display screen. Considering that Grant is suing Valenti for $15000 for ruining his equipment, I don't really blame him for freaking out when Valenti opened the bag.

Now how does Grant as a private human alien hunter fit in with Isabel getting a flash from him when she wiped the blood from his scratch? Maybe he's actually an alien alien hunter from the home world.

SF

It seems kind of odd that the girl was bruied alive to be kept alive. She wasn't buried very deep if Valenti and the kids could dig her out like that.

A few odds and ends... Harding was supossed to have been military correct? Perhaps they just made the excuse that he was transfered again or had to go somewhere and Tess wanted to stay in Roswell?

Sean is played by Devon Gummersoll who played Brian Krakow in My So Called Life (majandra must have been thrilled to work with him!) and the "Pink Guy" from Felicity.

If she was just bait why bury her? She could have been gagged and locked up in a shed to be just bait. That way they could have effectivly lured Valenti and Isabel, and keep others from finding her as well.

I don't think Laurie was bait. Or not just bait. Something wierd was going on! They (unknown) took a lot of pains to put her underground. What did they inject her with? Why give her oxygen but deny her food and water? She was going to stave to death. Why do this? Whoever it was they didn't plan to keep her alive for long. Or did they plan to dig her up before she came to death? (This is beginning to remind me of the movie "Seven", the one with Brad Pitt and the serial killer who spent way to much time dreaming up ways to kill people by their sins.)

I know it has to have some sort of alien motives behind it, but what? And I think Isabel's vision was correct and that Grant has something to do with this. I'm banking on the fact that he is "not of this earth."

For those who thought that Dan is after Grant too and wants Valenti to just get out of his way. (Much like the Topolsky dynamics.) I'd have to say I agree.

I can't wait for Monday to get more clues!

Some people have commented on the visual similarities between Laurie and Isabel. I don't know what to make of that, but when Isabel was digging in the dirt and reached the place where Laurie was buried it looked to me (at first) as if she had uncovered a mirror and was staring at a reflection of herself. Of course, it was the top of the lucite box over Laurie's head.

Just a quick note. The shooter, shot once and missed. Somehow, that one bullet that did get fired isn't mentioned by Valenti's deputy, only the ones that hit Max's jello shield. Does this mean that Valenti's staff and Dan suspect Valenti is lying about there even being a shooter?

I feel very afraid for Valenti's future as a sheriff.

Jamethiel
"I shall believe."

2. Sean is played by Devon Gummersoll who played Brian Krakow in My So Called Life (majandra must have been thrilled to work with him!) and the "Pink Guy" from Felicity.

Thanks TVPooh!

1. hmmm... if it was SWEET and SOUR tortillas then I don't think it's significant. I doubt Dan is alien.

2. I recognized Devon first at the "date-rapist" from Felicity. I forgot about him being the "Pink Guy" - that's a nicer way of remembering him. But then after you mentioned that he was Brian in "My So Called Life" it hit me. And that's an even nicer way of remembering him. He'd better stay away from Liz though. ---
I read on a few other threads that other people are speculating that Sean is having an odd effect on Liz very similiar to the way Tess first affected Max! Perhaps he isn't even the real Sean but a shapeshifter! (while the real Sean remains in the institution).

Field instruments usually have nice, ruggedized, containers or they themselves are packaged like that. (I'm thinking of the neat reel-to-reel tape machine that the sound guy uses in Covina). I've never seen anyone carry sensitive equipment around in a body bag. Or course if the equipment is alien in origin then there wouldn't be any neat shipping containers.

Well, I'm a geologist, and I've never heard of or seen any equipment like that. But then again, I've never specifically studied caves.

Wasn't Grant initially in Roswell to study the future site of a chemical firm? How does that have anything to do with Carlsbad Caverns? Has he just picked up another contract that allows him to stay in the same area?

If Grant were an alien, then why would he want the Cadmium X exposed during "Skin and Bones"? I guess it would make some sense if he were an alien opposed to the Pod Squad, but it makes me more inclined to think that he works for some special government organization.

1. hmmm... if it was SWEET and SOUR tortillas then I don't think it's significant. I doubt Dan is alien.

---
I read on a few other threads that other people are speculating that Sean is having an odd effect on Liz very similiar to the way Tess first affected Max! Perhaps he isn't even the real Sean but a shapeshifter! (while the real Sean remains in the institution).

[/B]

Jamethiel speculates even further.

I think the "sweet & sour" tortillas was significant (Senor Chows is likely to mix chinese and mexican cuisine) but I think Dan is the one that is the shapeshifter! Tic-Tac anyone? We've always speculated that Dr. Margolin had to have ties to the "Special Unit" and knowledge of the podsters. Well, we've got a lawman with "special knowledge" that appears to link him to the Special Unit just based on his interest in Max and Isobel alone. And he has odd taste in tortillas! Its' gotta be him. I do like the idea (I don't remember who posted it or where) that Sean got released early from whatever institution in order to spy on Liz, Maria, and the podsters. If Tic-Tac was well connected, he could even have arranged for Sean to be the spy.

I'm still puzzled as to whether Grant is good or bad. Isobel may have just put his face on the bad guy because she was in close contact with him...Aren't we supposed to trust Isobel's instincts? How could she be so wrong about the guy? I mean...creepy, creepy, creepy guy if he goes around kidnapping women and burying them alive in the woods.

Jamethiel
"I shall believe"

Groovypeg! Welcome to the Sci-fi thread. We welcome lots of science fiction speculation. I think you are absolutely right. I don't think Kyle is a half-alien hybrid. I think he's just "advanced" a few steps on the evolutionary scale...which is good for his "karma" too.

Jamethiel
"I shall believe."

Great posts guys! Thanks for all the wonderful posts on the oxygen tanks and geological equipment. I can now sleep.

Oh, I forget who said it over on page one, but I agree it is a physical impossiblity for those bullets to have no lacerations. They traveled at a high velocity through the gun's barrel. I bet Dan or was it Hanson, switched the bullets.

Either that or CadiumX reared its ugly head again!

quote:Originally posted by Jamethiel:
I don't think Kyle is a half-alien hybrid. I think he's just "advanced" a few steps on the evolutionary scale...which is good for his "karma" too.
"

I agree completely, and refer back to earlier conversations about the use of powers. It seems too far-fetched to say that Max transferred any alien matter to Liz or Kyle. More likely, he just awakened a portion of the brain that is not generally used by humans, a part of the brain that would allow what we regard as psychic powers - bilocation, ESP, manipulating matter, etc. Kyle, the smallest of small-town boys, is probably way more fearful of such a change, so he manifests this fear (or maybe curiosity, as LSS said) as "turning into an alien."

Unlike most of you, I just thought Jim was the sniper's target because he was the only one who was armed. There I go again, looking for simple solutions.

Thanks, TVPooh, for giving proper thespian credit to Devon Gummersall (also the little brother on the short-lived Zwick/Herskovitz drama "Relativity). He's a marvellous actor and I hope the material is up to his talent.

It's lovely to see all you brilliant people again...

Juniper

What about that pic of that guy that looks like Mikey? Who is it in the pic?

Some people have commented on the visual similarities between Laurie and Isabel. I don't know what to make of that, but when Isabel was digging in the dirt and reached the place where Laurie was buried it looked to me (at first) as if she had uncovered a mirror and was staring at a reflection of herself. Of course, it was the top of the lucite box over Laurie's head.

Hi Zara!

Welcome to the SF of [episode] thread! And--rather than intruding, your voice is a welcome addition!

Yeah--Laura and Izzy do have some similar features--but it is those cells that intrigue me the most. It is as if like is "calling" to like. That image (as well as the previews for next week) really does give credence to the idea that Laura (or at least someone in Laura's family) is the human DNA donor for Izzy.

Great to talk you...come back again!

LSS

Hi groovypeg!

Kyle is no more half alien than Liz is (I can hear QFanny shouting in the background here..."remember Kyle is not an alien).

I do think that, like Liz, Kyle will show some residual effects from the healing. That should be fun to watch. SOMETHING has to happen to Kyle, however, for consistency's sake given Ava's explanation to Liz of her "change."

Just remember--this is not "change" as in growing a scaley hand (Kyle's nightmare). It is change as in other than "normal."

LSS

~~~~~~~~
way off line....

What if the pod squad were all born from diiferent earth mothers after a Alien pregnation and then placed in the pods after a normal human birth. You hear those crazy stories all time about being abducted by aliens. they did wierd things to you and then suddenly your pregnant and then when the baby is due. The Aliens come back and steal it.

This is way out of whack. But hey....

MODEangel

As for the Sweet and Sour tortillas - I thought Dan threw that remark out there just to see if it got a reaction, any reaction from Valenti. He may know something's up with that, but is not sure what! And it was made in such a way that it brought attention to the fact that they were "sweet and ssss..something else, probably sour, maybe something else! I would think Dan is more FBI Special Unit than alien!

As for Grant. I have never thought of him as anything but a pedophile who should be kicked out of Roswell and that's it, simply because, historically, all the people whose name starts with an S in Roswell are good or contribute something to the podsters. That simple! The fact that Isabel saw him in her dreamwalk surprised me because I thought he was okay (not okay, okay.. just okay!).

Ender: When Carver saw through the pods in So47, he saw almost fully grown human babies. The mix was done back in Twilo. As to where they got the DNA, the answer is simple - they have been visiting for millenia. They were not going to send their Royals to a planet they had never been to before, right?

Sean comes in just when Liz is complaining and despondent about Max and her feelings for him. The Liz we know (correction - the Liz we used to know, that unwavering character who knew what she was doing, who was madly in love with that guy, Max?), she wouldn't have given that mesmerized look to Sean as Liz did yesterday! It was so out of character! and it reminded me of the look Max was sporting last year when Tess was mind-warping him! I'm not sure if he is an alien, a shapeshifter, he may be there to protect Liz, he is a Skin, he is K'var... I don't know because on second watching, I felt sorry for him! He looked like a lost soul: just out of a horrible institution, no money, nobody wants him, no home, his cousin is nasty to him, so he zeros in on a pretty girl who seems kind and doesn't diss him! The jury is still out on him.. in my book, but, of course, in my book Grant was okay so .. who knows?

The thing that bothers me about the girl being buried in the woods... if she was used as a lure to flush out the aliens, why couldn't they have kept her tied up above ground? The guy/s (Dan and Grant?) had to be a special kind of mean... and that's scary! I shudder at the thought of another "White Room" looming ahead of us, for Max or any of the others!!!

Left lying above ground, even hidden in the brush, some ordinary schlep could bumble along and find her. Buried, it would take very special people to find her. People that our whacko would like to bag n' tag.

Anyway, that is my speculation for the morning.

By the way, I did think it was out of character for Liz to be so "taken" by Sean, but we don't know their history. Maybe she had a crush on him as a little girl. Maria seems to hint as much.

Jamethiel
"I shall believe."

1. If the bullets from the snipper were being stopped by Max's shield, how the heck did Jim's bullets get through to shoot the snipper?

2. Now if you were the snipper, shooting at the 3, and saw that Max had his shield up and your bullets weren't getting through, wouldn't you stop shooting and run? Or was the sheild invisible to the shooter somehow? Which brings up this point: the shooter had to have seen the shield and absolutely knows about the Podsters.

3. If Dan was close enough to come up to them as they started to run after the shooter (obviuosly Grant), did he see Max's shield as well?

I posted earlier that Sean was probably released early in exchange for agreeing to spy- I think that this works even better now that I've read the theory (who posted it?) that Dan is the shapeshifter who earlier appeared as Margolin. We've already seen the Podlings defeat a government threat. Perhaps what they are facing now is different- an attack by Aliens who are using the resources of the government's anti-ET forces to track down and defeat the Podsters.

I think that Isabel's vision of Grant should be trusted. She found the girl, she found Tess... her visions are accurate. She may have made a mistake with the girl- confusing two people she'd never met- but she certainly would recognize Grant. Her instincts appear to have been warning her away already- her constantly canceling dates, as mentioned in the beginning of the ep, and her general attitude towards him never seemed that warm. (Even when she put her head on his shoulder it seemed forced, not casual.)

Also, he should be evil because I hate the guy. Izzy belongs with me! Er, um, Alex.

In 1947 the aliens crashed. The group of aliens split into group with one group leading the government on a wild goose chase.

The second task was to finish what it started.

Meanwhile a group of humans were hiking in the desert and found the aliens. The aliens and the humans somehow found a way to communicate with each other.

Laurie's grandmother was part of the human group. She donated the DNA that was used to create Isabel and Max.

Laurie's grandmother fiance/boyfriend was also in the group and he donated his DNA which was used to create Michael.

The fiance/boyfriend was killed by the government trying to protect the aliens.

Tess' DNA could have from the fiance/boyfriend or from his sister/brother who was also in the group. This could make Tess Michal's sister or cousin.

This could be why Isabel felt the connection btwn herself and Laurie.

Oh well that's my theory.

1. If the bullets from the snipper were being stopped by Max's shield, how the heck did Jim's bullets get through to shoot the snipper?
2. Now if you were the snipper, shooting at the 3, and saw that Max had his shield up and your bullets weren't getting through, wouldn't you stop shooting and run? Or was the sheild invisible to the shooter somehow?
3. If Dan was close enough to come up to them as they started to run after the shooter (obviuosly Grant), did he see Max's shield as well?

Welcome, Mad Hatter! You have some good points. Re #1: I think that Max let down the shield before Valenti shot at the sniper (I got the impression that they timed it just so). Re #2: I also wondered if the shooter was able to see the shield. Re #3: Hmmm...I hadn't thought about that.

I do think that, like Liz, Kyle will show some residual effects from the healing. That should be fun to watch. SOMETHING has to happen to Kyle, however, for consistency's sake given Ava's explanation to Liz of her "change."

Just remember--this is not "change" as in growing a scaley hand (Kyle's nightmare). It is change as in other than "normal."

LSS

I can understand why Kyle was so freaked out about changing. I mean, he liked who and what he was. He realizes that he's different now. And actually, if you watch Liz's reaction to Ava, she was sort of freaked out too when Ava said Liz was different now.

Since post 21 I've said "Liz is not an alien." And she isn't, although her having powers doesn't please me much. However, because Kyle was also brought back, the writers should be consistant and give him powers too.

LSS is right, I was shouting ,

Remember is not an alien!

Maybe it's time for a new signoff.

Something is bugging me. The shooter obviously went to considerable trouble to kidnap a specific victim, so as to lure some specific people to a place where he could cap them. And he missed. Badly.

He was close enough for Valenti to spot him and be confident of nailing him with a pistol. From all signs Valenti scored at least one hit. And the assasin missed with a sniper rifle...at that range?

1) He's not a pro.

2) He's a pro and the miss was deliberate. Why?

After the shield went up, the trajectory of all his shots indicate that he knew the source of the shield and wanted to take the source out. Or give the appearance of trying. I think he wasn't expecting the shield. In his shoes I take my shot and poof, I'm suddenly blocked from any further shots. I'm pissed. So the next shot was anger. The ones after that were testing the shield.

Ideas anyone?

quote:Originally posted by Alex Evans:
...I posted earlier that Sean was probably released early in exchange for agreeing to spy-Great theory! It makes sense. And maybe he's a Temp now as well.

Something else that I wonder about is why haven't we seen Max and Isabel (or any other podster combos) "connect"? Yes, Tess mindwarped him and yes, Isabel dreamwalked him. I mean a regular, conscious, non-manipulative connection. When Max went to wake Isabel from her dream, why didn't he pick up on what she was experiencing? Remember in the Pilot episode Max tells Liz that "we can connect with people...as you know". That implies that he experienced "flashes" from other people (from whom?!?) before he did so with Liz. Granted, I'm sure they weren't on the same powerfully intimate level. And his "making the connection go the other way" was exclusive to Liz. But in a situation where he knows Isabel is experiencing this nightmare-walking, wouldn't he want to "connect" with her so that he could somehow help his sister? If nothing else, help with finding the girl?

I have some thoughts on the cloning theories, but I'll save them until we learn more. Can't wait!

Rachelle

Something is bugging me. The shooter obviously went to considerable trouble to kidnap a specific victim, so as to lure some specific people to a place where he could cap them. And he missed. Badly.

He was close enough for Valenti to spot him and be confident of nailing him with a pistol. From all signs Valenti scored at least one hit. And the assasin missed with a sniper rifle...at that range?

1) He's not a pro.

2) He's a pro and the miss was deliberate. Why?

After the shield went up, the trajectory of all his shots indicate that he knew the source of the shield and wanted to take the source out. Or give the appearance of trying. I think he wasn't expecting the shield. In his shoes I take my shot and poof, I'm suddenly blocked from any further shots. I'm pissed. So the next shot was anger. The ones after that were testing the shield.

Ideas anyone?

We've got probably two hostile factions here. One, Dan, seems to be Special Unit-ish. The other, the kidnapper, shooter, probably Grant, is more K' var-ish. I don't think he's a Skin, or if he is he's like Nikolas. I do think his mission was specificly to test the podsters. He could not reasonably have missed the first shot! Laurie was set up as bait: as terrorized as possible, and maybe drugged to make her more effectively transmit that terror. Grant finds out that Isabel is psychic, and that Max is harmless: he has no offensive Talent, just defensive. (Michael has the offensive abilities!)
Drop in on the Politics thread - I posted on this there.

As for a deliberate miss. It could be tactics. Make Valenti and the Podsters focus on the right hand, so that they aren't noticing what the left hand is doing. All of which makes me paranoid about Maria's cousin. Can we say, "Trojan Horse"?

Rachelle

Very interesting interpretation Lenaba! If that's the direction they end up taking the chronicles, the cloning theories could be simplified in a sci-fi sense. If the "alive goo" turns out to be analogous to alien essence, would you speculate that its conscious?

SF

In addition to answering the POV question Jametheil, it would also answer these:

How Liz was able to receive the message from the orb?

I have assumed that telepathy in Roswell was something that worked on physical properties. As if mental images could be transmitted over radio waves. But if the orb, as sentient entity, was the result of biological manipulation. Perhaps the visions Liz saw were in fact, the result of her being able to connect metaphysically with another's soul.

That would imply:

Liz's incrediable intution is the result of her altered status.

A soul has substance and it cannot be changed. Only the vessel can be altered.

And the second point I would like to make with this idea, if a person can be changed into an orb, is it possible for them to be changed back? Is this the protector that is lost in Ava's journal?

I hope that Laurie Dupree gets one of those funky rashes that Liz got. I have speculated that Rancher/TicTac injected Liz in the neck that caused her to receive visions. As farfetched as it sounds then, your idea has made me wonder about this again.

Thanks for sharing this idea!

Hi Phaze!

Welcome to the SciFi threads. Here's my opinion.

Kyle has not started to exhibit powers yet.
Liz may have been exhibiting powers back in season one during the episode of Sexual Healing. Liz started to get visions when she experienced heighten emotions.

It may be that Kyle will start exhibiting an enhanced gift soon too.

Another idea is that Liz is somehow different even though she and Kyle have the same altered status. Difference could be based in gender. Or perhaps Max's experience from healing Liz helped him heal Kyle. It seemed easier for Max to do it and perhaps this would have altered Kyle less. When Max healed Liz, you could see how anxious he was and maybe that anxiousness and inexperience caused Liz to be altered more.

Interesting question.

Anyone want to answer mine? How did Laurie not suffocate when buried. Just because she had oxygen going in, there seemed to be nothing to take the carbon dioxide out? How did she not die?

quote:Anyone want to answer mine? How did Laurie not suffocate when buried. Just because she had oxygen going in, there seemed to be nothing to take the carbon dioxide out? How did she not die? LSS
We don’t know how tight the seal was around the box. It seemed like there was only a thin layer of dirt covering Laurie, so the carbon dioxide could have just leaked out.

quote:2)This leads to several uncomfortable ideas.
a) He knew that someone would come.
b) It implies he knew that placing the girl under threat would trip Izzy's alarms.
c) He knows what the Podsters are.
d) He knows their connection to Valenti.
e) And for all that his target *seems* to be Valenti. Why?
Kzinti_Killer
Oh, Kzinti, your theories always give me the chills (in a good way!). Why would Valenti be a target? Good question. The skins know that trying to attack the podsters directly just isn’t going to work, it makes more sense to start cutting away at their support: friends and family.

A whole year goes by before someone shows up to investigate the Hubble shooting, Maria’s cousin—who has some strange effect on Liz—just happens to arrive around the same time. Coincidence? That the aliens most valuable human allies have people who could be serious distractions pop up in their lives? Nuh-uh. Something isn’t right in Denmark.

quote:Sean comes in just when Liz is complaining and despondent about Max and her feelings for him. The Liz we know (correction - the Liz we used to know, that unwavering character who knew what she was doing, who was madly in love with that guy, Max?), she wouldn't have given that mesmerized look to Sean as Liz did yesterday! It was so out of character! bluecornmoon
When I saw that scene . . . that was not Liz. And let me take this opportunity to officially declare my dislike for Sean. There’s just something off about that guy. Where is Doug Shellow when you need him?

bluecornmoon, I'm sorry, I have to ask. Are you a fan of Disney's Pocahontas?

This episode (like all the other shows this season) gives us more questions than answers. I don’t think I can even begin to speculate where this is going before watching We Are Family.

Nike
"All grown up . . . I like it."
"Who talks like that?! Shutup!"

BTW, reviewing that scene: the shooter was off to (our) right at the moment Detective Dan appeared in the background behind Max & co. Max's shield would have been edge-on to Dan, so he might have missed it. (mebby... ) Have we decided if Dan and the shooter are in cahoots, or not? Did an inconvenient but legitimate police investigation come during an alien attack, or is it a concerted effort to hamstring Valenti? If so, by whom?

Thanks for posting an answer. Then if the headbox was not suppose to have an air tight seal, then what was it's purpose then? Isabel had to use her powers to break the box, and she had some difficultly in breaking it.

And the fact she was buried would still cause a problem with the escape of carbon dioxide.

Does Laurie have an alien biology that would allow her to survive under this sort of physical stress?

quote:Then if the headbox was not suppose to have an air tight seal, then what was it's purpose then?
Qfanny
*shrug* dammed if I know.

quote:Isabel had to use her powers to break the box, and she had some difficultly in breaking it.
Qfanny
I thought Isabel had difficulty breaking it because she didn't want to hurt Laurie in the process, not because the box itself was made of a strong material.

....I thought Isabel had difficulty breaking it because she didn't want to hurt Laurie in the process, not because the box itself was made of a strong material.
Ok Nike

You and I are in the same boat. And we are paddling up the creek. But I believe that if they make Liz altered, they had to make Kyle altered to. Now, I would prefer that Kyle never develop powers, but I don't know how they are going to do this. This is the sort of detail we can't get from writers. On that note, I would prefer things be consistant. I don't think that the kids were changed/altered/enhanced (pick your SAT word). Liz and Kyle were brought back. Those kids were sick, yes, but they were not going through the dying process at the moment Max healed them.

Regarding the material of the box, I would agree that it was made of a strong material. We know from TWR that the podsters have limitations. They can not alter heavy molecules. Depleated uranium was the element in question. I think anything with an atomic number greater than 92 would be impossible for the podsters to manipulate molecularly. But the box doesn't look like anything other than ordinary plastic or even glass (glass would be too heavy probably.) Is this more evidence that the box is made up of a fictional component from planet Antar? Hmmm. You're probably right. Isabel was concerned about hurting Laurie.

Another question about the box, if Isabel had such a hard time breaking it to get it off, how did Grant get it on her head? It looks like one piece and it could not have been slipped on over her head. Does Grant hae the ability to alter molecular structures to fashion the box around Laurie's head. That could explain why Isabel had a *hard* time getting it off.

Just be warned that I have not read all or most of the theories on this thread, so please forgive me if this has been discussed already.

After re-watching Destiny, I remembered what Pierce told Max about his powers. It has to do with synaptics and neuro-transmitters in the brain. They are more developed and what we know of Max, Tess, Michael and Isabel these powers are manifested in different ways. All four of them have developed their powers to the point that they can use them. In "Max in the City", we saw that Liz has been changed (ie her neuro-transmitters have been mutated, lack of a better word) and with the help of both Eva and Isabel has was able to use them to help Max.

I guess what my question is for Liz, Kyle and the kids (the Mircle), if they are not developed and used, they won't manifest...right?

Now I'm spoiler free on Roswell so I don't know what the future will hold, but I imagine that Kyle will want the help of Tess and the others to help develop his "powers", but I don't imagine Liz would want to know unless it will help the others and especially if they are in danger.

Thoughts, comments?

Ciao
Ms. Gwyn

The "beeping sound" (from SH) was heard in Kyle's dream and my first thought was of the orbs...then "the Buddah guy" pulled out his cell phone!

But there has to be a reason for that particular sound to have been used in the dream.

I'm so glad we have some new eppies. I love reading everyone's specualations!

I rewatched To Serve And Protect this weekend, and have a question. Laurie told Isabel that she never saw the face of her kidnapper. But Isabel clearly saw Grant's face in her vision. So, who was dreamwalking who?

Because if Isabel was dreamwalking Laurie, OR if Laurie was dreamwalking Isabel, neither one had the information that Grant was the kidnapper. Could the vision have come from yet another source? If the whole girl-buried scenario was a trap, then could Isabel have been receiving something more like a mind-warp? And from whom?

So, maybe the gun toters were fibbies who had located the body and were waiting for the evil doers of the deed and the out-of-this-world rescuers to show themselves.

Luna, good questions! I have possible answers, but what I really want to know is if this was just a blooper. But recall in Surprise (which they did choose to re-air prior to this 4 parter) that when Isabel wipes the blood from Grants neck (which looks like it was caused by the chain link fence that later tore Isabel's gown) that she gets a flash of Tess's previous location. So, I think it might just be a connection to Grant. If not, she may have other clairvoyantish powers.

Jamethiel
"I shall believe."