A. Powers#1(New info from "Wipeout")
The podsters' powers are increasing, and they have no idea what the next one will be.
Tess : Tried to mind-warp the Skins into thinking there was flame to scare them, but instead sent a real wall of flame at them. This was surprising in its violence and kill count, making Tess the podster with the highest number of kills. I think she will cope with it much better than Michael did in killing Pierce.
Isabel : I just had to say that I loved the way she pushed Max and Michael out of the bathroom and slammed the door on them with a wave of her hand when they were watching so cutely the disrobing of Courtney.
Max 1 : When Nicolas was trying to mind-rape him, Max at first seemed to be powerless against him, but when Nicolas made the second attempt, Max raised his head, and looked him silently in the eye with strength, determination, and anger. Nicolas' expression was one of surprize and fear, and he either backed away or was pushed away by Max. We then cut to Maria, and back again - where Max seemed to have gone through perhaps some physical torture to weaken him for Nicolas, because he is suddenly hanging perpendicularly and semi-conscious. (Apparently another clip is missing from a scene!) It is then that Tess incinerated them, presumably to keep Nicolas from making a third attempt on Max. BTW, Max still had his head down and his eyes closed when Tess blasted them, but he was upright and alert in its aftermath. The pillars they were attatched to also disappeared. Hmmm ... Maybe there was only one Skin there with them and it was a mindwarp BY the Skins that they were held by so many. Maybe they were at a safe distance incase something like that happened. That could explain why we saw a Nicolas-like person at the end.
Max 2 : Courtney said that Nicolas was a thousand times more powerful than the podsters. Nicolas said that in the old days he would have been no match for Max. It seems that Max was extremely powerful in his past life, and may be again. The question is, what makes him more powerful? Was Max so powerful because he was from a stronger race, royalty are naturally stronger, or maybe because he was genetically engineered to be king? So many possibilities.
Powers #2 So far the podsters have certain basic powers in common, but the differences are interesting. Michael and Tess have displayed offensive powers. Max and Isabel have displayed defensive powers. Tess has the power of deception; Isabel has the power of looking into a person. Is this indicative of their past powers, their present personalities, their past personalities, or is it a SSer method of making them depend on each other and work as a team?

B. Built-in personalities.
The podsters are only part the genetic make-up of their original selves, with no conscious memory of their past lives. If you want to resurrect a dead leader, why take a chance on genetic, or environmental influences making him unsuitable to the task? The SSer aliens who podded the podsters (presumably), would have also "set" their personalities to get the desired individuals. This would have been accomplished by :
a. the children being in the pods 'til the apparent age of six years of development(basic human personalities are set by this age),
b. possible selection or engineering of the human donor DNA which would genetically pre-dispose each to particular personality traits.
This brings up several questions:
1. Were the Royal Four reborn with the same personalities as in their past life?
Are they doomed to repeat the same mistakes? Nicolas mentioned Max's "tarnished throne" - what did he do wrong? Was Max too cautious and hesitant to act, causing disaster? Was there a scandolous love affair that he couldn't stop? Was he just an all-around poor leader? Is it something we can see in our Max now?
2. Have the Royal Four been reborn with opposite personalities than their former selves to temper or balance the submerged personalities and memories that Tess hinted could be retrieved?
Was Max a tyrant like Vlad the Impaler? Was he rash, careless, and cruel? (Nicolas: "You used to decide the fate of entire armies with the flip of a coin".)When he remembers his past self, will he be conflicted or will one personality overshadow the other?
3. Are SSer personalities not influenced by their genetics, and they did not care what Max was like as long as they had a leader? Did they assume they could train and educate him for the job when he was old enough no matter what he was like?

I would think that #1 is the most likely, and #3 is the least likely, but who knows until they tell us?

C. The Skins have described the war as a revolution, but a revolt against what?
Obviously it was not about their form of goverment, or K'var would not be sitting on Max's throne.
If it was because Max was such a bad ruler, the SSers would not want him either, and would not be going to such extremes to get him back. They would simply pick a better leader to replace him, especially after all these years. What makes Max so special?
The CW certainly made it sound like a race war inwhich the Skins revolted against the SSers, but many earthly "revolts" are really just an overthrow of one dictator for another. If it was this simple, then why the big deal about the hybridized, adolescent, half-clone of the deposed leader? What kind of threat could he be when he was plopped on an alien planet in another galaxy with amnesia and no ride home. It is laughable for them to expend this much effort and "man" power to hunt him down and steal the granolith. Obviously, both sides have survived thus far without the granolith. If it is never found, what does it change? There has to be more to Max and the granolith than meets the eye.
We often romanticise rebels and sympathise with them. Look at our own Civil War, and sympathies that still survive. Rebels don't like to be told what to do, love independence, and resent being ruled by others - sounds heroic. BUT they were fighting for the right to keep another race as slaves! To rule others, tell them what to do, and keep them from independence!
What if Mommy was right, and the revolt was by the evil ones against the good guys?
One theory that I came up with is that Max was kind and descent enough that he did not want to invade a less advanced planet (maybe even US!), and out of greed, aggressiveness, and lack of morality, a faction (Skins) fought his decision? Courtney: "Our planet was on the verge of a golden age" - planning to plunder a planet for natural resources or slaves? What if Max said no, and it was unpopular with the Skins? They appealed to Past-Michael's sense of greed, but he was loyal. They appealed to Past-Isabel's lust for the Skin leader and power, and she fell for it hoping to be queen instead of princess. I think she was being used and was killed by them after she had betrayed her brother. They have been tied up in a civil war ever since, and can not take on a new war, yet. If Max is defeated, like in EOTW, those people(or us) are next. What if it was us, did Max actually visit Earth and the Native Americans? They really ought to check out NA mythology and folklore. (Well, it was just an idea.)

D. Who are the species involved?
We seem to have SSers who brought them here, and we have Skins who followed them here. We have seen only two SSers - Tic-tac, and Harding who said his only job was to keep them alive. If neither one of them was teaching the podsters about their history and abilities (Tess is still learning!), then was their role more of Universal Policemen who set the stage for the Royal Four's return, but refused to be actively involved in it? (Capt. Carver: their eyes were "empty, ageless". Max's people, or another race that wanted him to put an evil, warring race in his kingdom back in their place?
Harding gave little or no info to Tess, even though he raised her for over eleven years.
He told King Max very little, and in the summer months made no contact. He came back only to bail Michael out.(S&B)
Tic-tac kept Michael from being hurt further by his foster father(ID), watched over M/L after they found the orb(SH), and kept Michael from being ambushed by Pierce(Crz). He said the podsters were not "ready to know" yet about why they are here. Were Harding's orders to keep them alive until they were old enough to have gotten all their powers, and then the fight could begin? If the orbs were not to be activated until they were mature, then they were activated early in "Destiny". ("It has begun" might be the ovservation of a NEUTRAL alien group who are here to watch the fight, explaining why we have not seen Skins using the pentagon-beeper, but some of the symbols match the cave symbols.)
It seems the SSers don't inform podsters, don't kill Skins (that we or humans know of), or convey messages back and foreth to the homeword that we know of (it seems like the Skins were in conact though, from what Nicolas said).
The Mommogram said, "I take this form because it will be familiar to you", but she could have been using a husk and was not necessarily a SSer (I doubt this and don't like this idea).
Invisable aliens We have seem from an alien perspective the stalking of Michael at Pierce's gravesite, the stalking of Max in the school hallway, stalking Harding near his car, and now the stalking of Liz and Maria on the sidewalk. Until now, we could not be sure it was invisible - now we know it must be, since Liz and Maria would obviously have seen it. Its perspective also indicates that it is relatively short. Nicolas? An alien critter like a hunting dog/spy? A neutral observer? Yet another sentient species?
Symbolism that may affect the number of species: The stylized galaxy symbol on the orbs (also above the carnival, on the cave wall, on the necklace, etc), has a triangle in the middle. Triangles and "V"s seem to have meaning, here's a thought on them:
What if the triangle is symbolic of the union of three species, or three star systems united under one government? What if the "V" is a symbol of that government, and the point of the V is Max's homeworld/rule and the two sides of the V are the other two worlds' connection to it?

E. The Granolith - which could also be symbolized by the V!
This thing just gets more versatile! First we find out it can be modified to be be a time machine(apparently not its normal function), and now from Courtney we find out it could solve her husk problem, either by transporting her home where she could survive, or by healing it? The granolith was hidden and obviously intended for the podsters. FMax seemed to be able to control it mentally, but did he know all of its capabilities? The enemy wants it deperately. At first I wondered if the granolith would help the enemy win if they captured it, or if it would simply keep the podsters from winning if they didn't have it. Since the Skins had the opportunity to kill the podsters, but still interrogated them for the location of the thing, it would seem the granolith would help the Skins beyond hamstringing the Royal Four.

F. Courtney
Too bad Max didn't try to heal her and get some helpful flashes from the evil within. Too bad we didn't get to see the being inside of the husk. Just scientific curiousity.
Michael was pretty stupid to tell her where the granolith was. She could have had second thoughts about being on his side and volentarily passed the info on to the Skins. She could have been mind raped by Nicolas(Michael knew this). Or the whole thing could have been an elaborate trick to get Michael to tell her what the Skins wanted to know. Besides, he "knew" how ill she was, how was she going to get to the pod chamber? How was she going to avoid being followed? How long was she going to last in the desert? How was she going to get in, does her handprint work on the enterance as well?

G. Poor Max
He found out his sister had not told him the truth, was somehow not trustworthy in the past, and was the subject of the Volandra Project. He is told his second-in-command had given away the location of the granolith. Max and Michael had grown up thinking they were brothers, but now their relationship is extremely strained and tenuous. Max doesn't trust Kyle or Liz now. He must be wondering why those closest to him are betraying him, and he must wonder if the fault is his - is he not worthy of loyalty. If the poor guy was screwed up before, he really will be now. He is also the only podster who has not killed yet, but will probably be the one most affected by taking another life. Max seems headed for a breakdown if things don't improve fast. He needs a shrink, but can't confide in one. I can't see him risking opening up to his parents either - he is probably more terrified than ever of them rejecting him. He may not want to open up to Alex or Maria much either, since they love Is and Michael, and anything he says would probably not be treated confidentially.
Little Brother? Last season Max was usually taller than Isabel, and if she was the same height or taller than him in a scene, we saw that she was in heels. This season, Isabel is usually taller than Max, and her shoes are not shown much to explain it. Also, Isabel's birthday has now been established as being 5 months before Max's. When they were found as six year olds, they would have been examined by doctors, and their ages determined by teeth, bones, etc. If they had appeared to be the same age, they would have been given birthdays closer together. We don't know the birth order of M/I in their previous lives, but does it seem they are setting us up for Max being the younger brother? Was there a large age gap, so they were not raised together? Was he an adult king? Was Volandra jealous that she was older, but Max got to rule? Did she want the throne for herself and K'var gave her a way, but then took it for himself?
H. Obscenely funny (and well proportioned) phallic symbol : This was really cute and had several meanings. The Skins were "sticking it to" the Roswell aliens. They were going to rape the city(a new spin for a busloads of tourists), or mind-rape the podsters for info. Maybe the Skins were just showing off their power. Etc., etc. (Aliens seem to think about or have sex an awful lot! Man! They are a h--n-y bunch of little critters!)
1. If this time-phasing field got rid of all the humans instantly that were in the field, then the Valentis, Maria, and Liz would have all disappeared when they entered the field also. And Roswell wasn't getting any other humans driving into town - not even delivery trucks? Duh!
2. Jim Valenti winked out first, seemingly ill after apparently being injured(left arm) in the CD struggle with the Skin. Why him first; because he was injured, older, or did it have to do with his individual body chemistry? He winked back healthy looking.
3. The field seemed to be OVER Roswell, not near the billboard, so why did Kyle and Maria (especially) wink out? They should have been out of range.
4. If they make any of these human characters aliens or part aliens, they will have ALOT of explaining to do!

Also, why would the humans that weren't there for the initial pulse fade out slowly? The instant the pulse was sent the rest of the humans dissapeared so it would make sense to me that any human encountering the energy field (for lack of a better word) would instantly dissapear.

Someone wrote in the Sci-fi of Harvest thread about the James Bond type scenario where the villain gives a long speech about there entire plan and conveniently (there it is again) leaves the hero(es) to escape. This happened a lot this ep. First our human friends didn't dissapear like the rest of them. Then the skins decide to tie up MMIT instead of killing them or quickly getting the info they needed. Then Nicolas stops reading courtney's mind to make some stupid comment giving her time to kill herself. I thought the writers put in too many convenient bad-guy speeches and what-not.

What was up with the little button on the skins. How nice and convenient for MMIT. With all the technology these aliens have, they have a little button that can instantly kill them? What if something fell on there back? I know courtney said "hit it as hard as you can" but tess didn't kick that woman very hard and she dissapeared. And why did she dissapear? That implies, to me, that the alien body in the husk would vaporize if it came in contact with Earth's atmosphere.

And finally, what was with Tess' stupid fire thing? They had such a terrible special effect and then all of a sudden everyone's dead and, conveniently) the pillars MMIT were tied up to were gone too. This episode was so poorly written. The writers sacrifieced good sci-fi for convenience for our characters. I'd rather see a less sci-fi dependant ep than one like this loaded with sci-fi that is so cheesy that it makes me feel like i'm becoming dumber while watching.

PRS

P.S. - I just want to say that I love roswell. I've watched it from the beginning and i have every ep on tape. Just so you don't think i am someone who just started watching and has no idea about the show and decided to rip on it.

P.S.S. - Did anyone notice the symbol on the front of the bus? I'll have to watch again to make sure but i think it was the same symbol as from the air force base from white room.

This evening's episode gave us a great deal of information concerning Roswell's SF framework...now let's sort it out:

1) TIME AND OUR ALIENS. Season 2 has introduced the notion of "time" now in two distinct ways: a) time travel (via the granolith), and b) time shifts/phases. In tonight's episode we were told that the skins have the technology to cause time shifts/phases that are biological entity specific. That is a fascinating concept. Off the top of my head I cannot think of another SF story which uses that story element. There are stories where shifts remove all life forms or stories where life forms from a different time zone phase in and out...but I don't think I recall technology that can target specific types of life forms. Can anyone think of some stories where this was used?

Time, we are told, exists in multiple subsets. And the skin technology can control these. Whether or not the targeted life forms go to another dimension or plane of existence is not clear, though these suggestions are raised in tonight's storyline. What did you think of this new direction in Roswell's SF framework? Was it plausible? Of course I shall NOT comment on the strategic location of that tube that spit forth the green blob that activated the force field...ahem...but
believe me my 12 yr old did not exercise the same restraint...SHE commented on it in great length!

2) SKINS. A number of new facts have emerged:
***skins are vulnerable to a hit in the lower back that breaks their husk's "seal" (though one would have imagined that a bullet would do just as well if we are talking about penetrating the husk)
***skins don't like heat (BTW am I imagining things or do you think that skin stopped not because of the bullet but because of that heating light?)
***husks need nutrients (perhaps that lotion we saw earlier and those sprays in the moisture chambers are vitamin/mineral enhanced?)
***Tess REALLY doesn't like skins does she? I mean talk about killing fields...I
wonder if that blast of fire we saw was something she used before on her home
planet...hmmmm?
***notice how all the skins wore sun glasses outdoors? I wonder if that has anything to do with their particular type of vision?
***Nicholas had all our podsters' powers to the 1000th power? Why? And why choose to occupy the husk of a child? And could mind rape (shudder)? Is he gone now? Seems like it didn't take much to do him in did it? But what about that boy on the skate board? Was Max just paranoid or what?

3) MARIA AND LIZ ARE NOT ALIENS. At least not 100%. Both failed the "energy field" test. Of course they could still be part alien. But it would appear that tonight's eppy seriously challenged those posters who though Liz was the fourth alien and Tess an imposter. Or did it?

4) MAX AS LEADER, King Max decided the fate of whole armies with the flip of a coin? Was Nicholas just giving him bad press? Or is this a foreshadowing of some unpleasant things we are going to learn about Max's former leadership style?

5) GENDER AND INTERROGATION. What did you think of Roswell's women asking Courtney questions? Kind of sent a chill down my spine. Tess was especially vicious, wasn't she?

A LOT to comment on tonight folks...what did you think?

LSS

P.S. It's not SF but has anyone really figured out what they are doing with Kyle
and Buddhism yet?

They never explain how Courtney gets into her new Husk. Just *poof* - she's in rusty bathwater and that's it.

They never explain (as far as I could tell) why she dies anyway. Wasn't the new Husk supposed to extend her life 50 years?

They never explain how multiple time dimensions can exist on another planet (but not on this one?). And what does that MEAN - to have multiple coexisting time dimensions?

How did a major electrical burst have any effect on time dimensions?

This isn't really scifi, but why did Max say "Valandra" cryptically after the Skins were blasted away.

Why was Valenti affected by his coming disappearance (shortness of breath, dizziness, a sense that he was about to go), but Kyle/Liz/Maria/Mrs. Evans just vanished without warning?

Argh!!

The time machine. Or, more properly, the time-zone machine. <sigh> Why would only the humans be affected? There is no difference whether particular atoms or molecules are part of a human body, or something else. (And aren't the podsters' bodies pretty much human?) I also somehow doubt that there'd be a time delay effect, not even a uniform function of exposure, before someone dissapeared. Setting up a modest magnetic field around the time-zone machine with jumper cables doesn't sound like it'd work, but I can't prove that. Bad sci, useful fi; if you can suspend disbelief for 41 minutes or so.

The husks. You'd think that some part of them would be unaffected by air, wouldn't you? Yet when "the seal is broken", they turn completely into dust, immediately, including whatever alien critter is inside. Burning a hole in them doesn't make dust, it makes a blizzard: witness CW's end, plus the crowd wipe-out scene. And shooting a hole through them doesn't break the seal... Did WB have some vampire special effects left over from BVS? I'm not convinced. I was right about Courtney being able to change husks under water, though.

We still have no idea who the funny-vision folks are, or who the beeper folks are. Of course, we'll need some villans for the rest of the year... Did we kill off all the Skins?

Re Kyle & Buddha: I'm thnking that reincarnation is a very big factor in the political story, and that Kyle will have to explain it to the podsters. See my Politics of Roswell thread, I think it's OT here.

They never explain how Courtney gets into her new Husk. Just *poof* - she's in rusty bathwater and that's it.

They never explain (as far as I could tell) why she dies anyway. Wasn't the new Husk supposed to extend her life 50 years?

They never explain how multiple time dimensions can exist on another planet (but not on this one?). And what does that MEAN - to have multiple coexisting time dimensions?

How did a major electrical burst have any effect on time dimensions?

This isn't really scifi, but why did Max say "Valandra" cryptically after the Skins were blasted away.

Why was Valenti affected by his coming disappearance (shortness of breath, dizziness, a sense that he was about to go), but Kyle/Liz/Maria/Mrs. Evans just vanished without warning?

Argh!!

[/B]

Yes! You took words straight from my mouth! I was thinking about these things during the show. Kinda makes you wonder about all these things...

They never explain how Courtney gets into her new Husk. Just *poof* - she's in rusty bathwater and that's it.
I had speculated on the previous Sci-Fi of thread that, since the Skins' aliens couldn't stand our air, she could change underwater. I'd suppose that the old Courtney got into the water, crawled out of the husk; Michael removed the old and put in the new husk, and Courtney crawled into the new one. We rejoin them, after she's screwed the lid back on.

They never explain (as far as I could tell) why she dies anyway. Wasn't the new Husk supposed to extend her life 50 years?
It wasn't ripe yet; it still had to be kept wet. After she was out of the water for a little while, it started to go bad and die. At the end, she reached behind herself and unscrewed her lid, breaking the seal and killing herself and the husk. This kept Nikolas from learning the location of the granolith.

They never explain how multiple time dimensions can exist on another planet (but not on this one?). And what does that MEAN - to have multiple coexisting time dimensions?
It's BS - Bad Science.

How did a major electrical burst have any effect on time dimensions?
The idea was that the magnetic field of the current running through the jumper cables (100s of amps) screwed up the time-zone machine's mechanism. Like I said, BS.

This isn't really scifi, but why did Max say "Valandra" cryptically after the Skins were blasted away.
He wanted to see if Isabel really was named Villandra - would she answer to that name? She did, and now Max has something else to worry about.

Why was Valenti affected by his coming disappearance (shortness of breath, dizziness, a sense that he was about to go), but Kyle/Liz/Maria/Mrs. Evans just vanished without warning? Argh!!
Yes, indeed!

There was speculation on the Spoilers board earlier that the Skins aren't dead at all, i.e. that Tess is a traitor and that her "blast" was actually a mind warp to let the skins escape now that the humans have returned.
I don't buy this myself, but I thought I should mention it.

Now, the only thing that struck me about Tess' sudden new power is the rest of them better catch up fast! It's not good to have a little Firestarter running around unchecked. In EOTW, we learned that the four balance each other--that the other three needed Tess in the future. Well, hello, if this is an example of the type of power Tess has, darn tootin' it'll come in handy again! But comparatively, she now has by far the most significant gift, and if this 'balance' FMax mentioned is real, I'm starting to wonder what the rest of them can do. And they really need to start figuring it out. Nicholas who in the former life didn't have one-tenth of Max's abilities suddenly tortures and controls the four of them? The four of them are supposed to be stronger, but they've got to get it together or this is going to be a short-lived war.

tanchel

This is one for the VCR and careful clue hunting.

Palomino your observations are actually pretty close in line to mine. I can't decide which gem of yours to focus on right now, but at some point, I think I need to go back to alien powers. But first I would like to discuss LSS points 1 and 5.

LSS said quote:
1) TIME AND OUR ALIENS. Season 2 has introduced the notion of "time" now in two distinct ways: a) time travel (via the granolith), and b) time shifts/phases. In tonight's episode we were told that the skins have the technology to cause time shifts/phases that are biological entity specific. That is a fascinating concept. Off the top of my head I cannot think of another SF story which uses that story element. There are stories where shifts remove all life forms or stories where life forms from a different time zone phase in and out...but I don't think I recall technology that can target specific types of life forms. Can anyone think of some stories where this was used?

a) Time Travel
Regarding the Granolith, how do we know that it was not intended for time travel. I know that Future Max states in The End of the World Episode that it had to be modified by Serena (and possibly Liz) to created and artificial tear in time space. I bolded the word artificial, because it is possible that Future Max could have been suggesting that tears in time space occur naturally. Although, to assume so based on Future Max's statements alone would be poor logic. But when Courtney explained about the time technology that the Skins have, it makes you wonder if tears could/does occur naturally in the Roswell world.

If the Skins have the ability to phase shift, (I'm gloating on this, was I the only one that saw this one coming? See my S&B, AN comments--LOL!) between time dimensions, then a Time Machine is absolutely necessary for the podsters to defeat the Skins.

b) Time/Pahse shifts
What is this time/phase dimension that the Skins can control. The invisible aliens that Palomino suggests to be a possible third-fourth species could actually be the Skins on my POV. They have the ability to control the time/phase differantial. I think that the Skins can exist in it as well as the HUMANS! (Notice that although the Skins have the ability to change time dimensions, locations seem to be out of there control. They may be able to change the Time, but hey, geographic location does not change. Seems to me that they would be able to overcome this.) I want to know what necessity was the mother of this technologic invention?

LSS-- I cannot really think of a matching example to this life specific time/phase change. My memories of Doctor Who are very dim, but, I recall an episode "Full Circle" with the companions Atrick & Nyssa being stuck in some sort of Alpha Space, a subtime frame that wasn't really suppose to exist. I don't remember how they got out but strange stuff happened with certain lifeforms because of it.
LSS said quote:
5) GENDER AND INTERROGATION. What did you think of Roswell's women asking Courtney questions? Kind of sent a chill down my spine. Tess was especially vicious, wasn't she?

Heck yes, this was creepy! And I think that is why Isabel shut the door on Max and Michael more than issues of modesty. Girlfriends have a way to get things out of you. I suspect had Michael/Max witness what was going on they would have been pretty shocked.

But you're right about Tess being so nasty, which I thought was very surprising. I would have expected Maria to be more of the ring leader based on Courtney's moves on Michael.

It wasn't too long ago that Tess was the unknown alien that had knowledge about the podsters. It was Tess that complained about "not belonging" to Kyle and that she wouldn't wait around for them to figure it out. I would think Tess could have been more compassionate, especially as she has grown leaps on bounds from her shifty role she developed in TLV.

(BTW--Tess is a fictional character, but Emilie the actress is very sweet, she sent me a signed picture.)

Okay, back to Palomino's observations on Alien Powers.

Palomino said quote:
The podsters' powers are increasing, and they have no idea what the next one will be... ....So far the podsters have certain basic powers in common, but the differences are interesting. Michael and Tess have displayed offensive powers. Max and Isabel have displayed defensive powers. Tess has the power of deception; Isabel has the power of looking into a person. Is this indicative of their past powers, their present personalities, their past personalities, or is it a SSer method of making them depend on each other and work as a team??
I suspect that it's the engineers way of making them work together.

I am however very concerned about Tess stating that she lost control. Tess is the most capable of all the podsters (from her upbringing) and seemed to be the lest likely to loss control. If Tess cannot control, then what does this mean for Max/Isabel and oh my God, Michael!

P. I have been sort of disappointed with the writers explaining who can do what when with alien powers, but lets see if we can agree.

Handblasting is not a Michael thing. Isabel did it tonight, Tess did it in Harvest to open the UFL doors. Skins can do it too and it doesn't look like it's exclusive to anyone of them.

MindWarp so far is Tess and only Tess

DreamWalking which we haven't seen this season, although I believe Isabel was asked to by Tess during Courtney's Q&A.

Healing done so far by Max, Michael and Tess. I am assuming that Isabel can do this too.

Defense Sheilds Max for sure. But also Isabel-- would the what she did in Surprise really defensive or not?

Vision receivingFor sure M/Mi & Liz (but Liz isn't an alien) but we don't know for sure about Tess. Can she, has she receive visions, or does she just create them? Has Isabel over received a vision... She doesn't think she couldn't, but I don't think she ever has.

What did I miss?

***NEW TOPIC***
LSS, I am surprised no one mention that frit-ta pie MrsE made and M/I not liking it. It seemed to be an alien thing more than a human dislike. I thought they were about to get sick they way they acted. LOL!

I thought we could go back to alien biology, starting with taste buds to go up to the reoccurring drug references. When Maria was throughing all those drugs into Courtney's bath, I did not think this painted a good picture for her. Although there was nothing illegal about her "drugs" I find it bothering that Maria said she had all of that because, "I dated Michael Guerin". I wish they hadn't done it this way, because it looked funny and harmless to rely on drugs to get through your problems.

maxcedo has the SciFi files for season two at http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/SciFiThreads/

Even the same curly blonde hair - rather strange.

PS - LSS - its cool - heck I even miss the dupe threads sometimes We usually try and post them all by 4pm pst.

My money is still on Liz. We have more clues for Liz. Where there is smoke, there's usually fire.

Antwon

I'm still very suspicious of this character. She seems different in every episode (dependent, then wisecracking, then "take charge"). I just don't "believe" (take at face value) what we see and hear from her. Can anyone shed any light on the subject?

Could this be why the New Mexico desert was chosen for the podsters to be "raised"? For it's climate (not to mention the Granilith which may or may not have already been in the area)? Although, if climate/heat/dryness was such a big factor in an attempt to protect the podsters from the Skins, why weren't the podsters just dropped in the middle of Death Valley? I presume it's because the Granilith was probably ALREADY in the Roswell area, hence this is where the podsters ended up.

quote:***Tess REALLY doesn't like skins does she? I mean talk about killing fields...I wonder if that blast of fire we saw was something she used before on her home
planet...hmmmm?

Tess' fire wall disturbed me. Granted, the Skins haven't shown any signs of being admirable (with the exception of Courtney), however, amusing they are When Tess did that *fire wall* thing, all I could think of was genocide. She wiped out an entire room of them by herself! Should one person have so much power?? Not to mention a person that I don't feel is worthy of all that much trust as yet (of course, that's just my opinion).

btw, I was staring at the screen rather dumbfounded when Tess was reaming on Courtney for "leading the Skins to them". Uhm, excuse me, Whitaker?? Whitaker, a Skin, kidnapped her and knocked her around. Whitaker would have probably informed Nicholas & Copper Summit of *all* the goings-on in Roswell. Courtney -who, as far as I could tell, was on THEIR side and probably didn't say anything to Skin HQ period- wouldn't have informed them of anything they didn't already know. Tess CERTAINLY has a distaste for Skins!! Of course, she probably has the most traumatic *Skin experience* of all of them so far. She still seemed *especially* vicious to me.

quote:***Nicholas had all our podsters' powers to the 1000th power?

And on the home planet he would have been NO MATCH for King Max?? How powerful were/are our podsters? Was that Tess firewall a little sample of what the podsters are capable of? Yikes. How did the Skins manage to defeat them in the last life at all if they were so powerful? Either they caught them really off guard, there were so many traitors etc amongst the Podians the kingdom just fell apart and/or Max was indeed a horrible King.

quote:5) GENDER AND INTERROGATION. What did you think of Roswell's women asking Courtney questions? Kind of sent a chill down my spine. Tess was especially vicious, wasn't she?

The scene also gave me chills. Liz and Maria were just kind of there, but Isabel and particularly Tess were almost like the gustapo. I was waiting for them to start marching around the bathroom screaming at a whimpering, dying Courtney in German. Frightening. What is becoming of our podsters?? Are they turning into the possible *tyrants* they might have been in the last lifetime??

quote:P.S. It's not SF but has anyone really figured out what they are doing with Kyle and Buddhism yet?

I don't know, but it's funny to watch! Perhaps it's symbolizing a possible road to enlightment for our podsters? The podsters are "reincarnated" versions themselves of people that existed in another time/place. Perhaps there are so many Buddhism references because the "Royal Four" need to make peace with (or atone for?) the (possible) warlords they were in the past alien life? Although, I don't really know anything concrete about Buddhism, I'm just ranting.

This has to do with the promo and I know I probably shouldn't be basing ANY speculations on it, but these *other* versions of our podsters (seemingly Michael and Isabel) seem almost sadistic. In theory, if these are the *possible* "other four" that were mentioned in Sof47, then is their behavior possibly more reminiscent of what the podsters were like on Twilo?? Sadistic and cruel? And WHAT were they wearing!? And did the *other* Michael actually have a mohawk??

Melodious

Now we have a reason for Nasedo not telling them too much: It would make them vulnerable to Nickolas' mind-rape.

LSS and anyone else who read the books, it's interesting that the WB Roswell writers have re-incarnated Nickolas in a new form. Recall in the book that Isabel could not resist his sexual attraction which eventually led her down a path of near destruction for herself and did for him.

Yes, I do think that was Nickolas on the skate board, and yes, I also entertained thoughts about Tess as a double agent. Sorry, but we still love to hate Tess. Somehow her torching of the Skins didn't hold a candle to Maria's zapping the alien you-know-what. Actually, I wondered if Tess really did it, or if Maria did. Except Tess did say she tapped into something weird. Maybe when Maria did the reverse charge Tess harnessed it and deflected it.

The human disappearing-into-time-warp act was quite similar visually to the invisible skins that spied on Michael in the desert and Max at school. Is this just low-budget effects, or a clue?

Am I the only one who thought that Isabel in suspended handcuffs was so cheesy it didn't even succeed (fortunately) at being gratuitous? I think KH didn't think too much of it--right on for conveying that to the audience if not the director.

Nemo, are you out there somewhere? Was this totally the scifi version of the Rapture, or what?

So now Maria knows something's up with Liz and Kyle. and

And Qfanny! "Remember: is not an "

For many reasons, including some that Palomino mentioned above, I'm certain that there is a third and hidden power, possibly more. I tend to think 4, at least, and this would include a human agency/power consortium. I suppose Brody will be making a re-appearance since the 'beepers' (and beeper-holders) must return, and I also think more of the real mythology will emerge later (likely around sweeps next year).

I had asked on a couple of threads if anyone had read ‘The 8’. In a similar vein to a premise of this book, I was wondering if Brody had come by one of a set of those devices which had, at some time in the distant past, been deliberately separated and hidden (and are now re-surfacing) because of the inherent awesome power for destruction/creation unless the individual(s) with the proper balance can channel the power, for whatever purpose, and in the proper place. Some of the markings

I tend to think we were ‘bumped’ into another timeline at the end of this ep, signalled by the disappearance of the pillars (unless they were part of a massive mind-warp) and the (if possible) goofier Mrs. Evans and other goofiness. For a moment there, before the ominous music and the boy on the scooter, I expected cartoon rainbows and flowers to pop up and bluebirds and skittles to rain down and munchkins to start singing ‘…were out of the woods….’

BTW- interesting reactions to Mrs. E's cooking we have not seen before.

With the back valve, was anyone reminded of the Titans and the opening of the heel valve to let out the steam (Jason and the Argonauts reference). They crumble to dust rather than explode, though.

Interesting time/dimension concepts although not good scifi. If Courtney had made it to the granilith, I don’t think she would have known what to do. I think the granolith(s??) ‘exists’ in multiple dimensions. The G is probably known in legend, except to possible guardians, and the builders are likely dust (like the Krell of Forbidden Planet). The ability to ‘use’ or ‘serve’ the granilith is probably an intrinsic (?royal) trait. I totally agree with you, Melodious1, that Roswell was deliberately chosen for many reasons, including the location of the granilith. Good thought about some heat/environmental protection. But I’m not sure what would be different about the heat of Copper Summit, although they must have other 'preservation’ environments in place.

Rosta

If so (pretty unlikely, but I'm going to play with the idea anyway), what might this mean? Could TicTac have been a Skin but had a husk with the capacity to shapeshift?? He needed those pills to somehow nourish the husk? Although I'd think that would still differentiate him from Courtney because I think it was some blue moisturizer that was in the water that helped her and not the pills Maria dumped in... but still had to speculate.

Melodious

First: why didn't anyone think to ask Courtney some basic questions. For example, what's the name of our planet? What does it look like, and how does it differ from earth? What are our names? What do we look like? What is the political structure of our planet? What are the different factions/species -- how do they differ and what does each want? Who are K'var and Nicholas? What brought about their victory? Why were we sent to earth? What's the Granolith? How does it work, and what exactly does it do?

This is a no brainer, people. To have our aliens neglect to do this is beyond absurd. Even if Courtney has some reason for not knowing (though her "follower of Michael speech suggests she could answer all), we need to hear what the hell it is! So now our aliens have been on friendly terms with two apparent former inhabitants of their world whose memories of it were intact -- Nasedo and Courtney -- yet they have learned almost nothing from either. How is it possible that they haven't even asked?

Second: So what's the deal? Are MMIT alien or human? Is it their alien blood cells that kept them from succumbing to the mysterious multi-phasic time? Again, how is that their "human" powers are exactly the same as Nicholas' alien ones?

Third: Just what is inside the husks? Did Tess's fire disintegrate it or only breach the husk, and does it dissolve instantly on contact with Earth's atmosphere (that's pretty corrosive)?

Fourth: What good would tying MMIT up with ropes, etc. do? Why couldn't they just use their powers to break their bonds (we see Tess struggling against the ropes). Even if they couldn't escape from all the "soldiers" (no more than Max and Tess faced alone in Copper Summit), why did they allow themselves to be be bound in this way? Were the skins using some kind of "Twylonite" rope?

Fifth: How did Tess know Max was looking for a missing Isabel? After everyone but them had gone into the UFO museum, Max and Isabel remain outside, and Isabel tells only Max that she wants to go off on her own. She slips away, and Max goes in search of her. We later see him enter the UFO museum, apparently for the first time, but Tess asks, "did you find her?" If Max was not just then coming back from his search, why would Tess ask him that? How could she know where he'd been unless he told her? And if he had just told her, why would she need to ask?

Sixth: How did Courtney get outside? Was she trying to get to the Granolith? Wasn't that the plan only IF something happened to Michael? At that point, nothing had.

I could go on, but I won't. I know people are going to get mad, and they're going to assume I don't like Roswell. The fact is, I'm not liking it very much at this point because it is, quite simply, out of control. I keep waiting for Ming the Merciless to arrive at any minute, kidnap Liz, shrink and imprison her in a tiny crystalline bee hive in the 8th dimension, and threaten to destroy her and Earth with his death ray unless Max submits to a life of slavery in the Horkinite mines on the planet Speedo. But what the hell do I know? -- Roswell is growing its audience daily!

One last thing: what is all this tic-tac man stuff? What makes people think he wasn't Nasedo? If you're waiting for an explanation of what the tic-tacs were for or why he stopped using them as Harding, I woudn't hold my breath.

I'm sorry; I really am. But this isn't what I got on the A-train for.

I think your questions are dead on and you put in print what went through my mind and probably others as well. The podsters lack of inquisitivess is puzzling to say the least, particularly with Courtney.

I don't see why this should invoke anger.

I have not been happy with this season (increasingly out of control is accurate) except EOTW and AK. Sof47 was ok. I strongly believe Scifi and relationships can exist together, and I feel that there have been GREAT missed opportunities, even with a scifi focus. I truly did not like the 'SkinArc', but that is just my preference; but I thought it an unfortunate and puzzling concept, and I hope it has ended. I'm not happy with the preview for next week.

I have voiced my concerns about the overriding, to my senses, air of 'unreality' of this season since S&B aired. Since the first frame with Piercedo testifying with the green inflatable alien doll on the podium. Fevered dream? Delusions? I'm not excluding the possibility that we may be experiencing the world according to a psychotic!Max.

Key for me is that many people are enjoying the season, even with acknowledged shortcomings. And there moments to enjoy, and many things to discuss. I stuck with my much-beloved X-Files during it's bad patch' it , and I am really enjoying it again. I am hopeful about Roswell, even though I can't attribute the current 'lack of heart' to the initially limited season. Indeed, with few episodes to make a point or come to a conclusion, I would have expected much more.

After a promising, and very funny, start last week, Harvest became a muddle. When I think of the missed possibilitites..! But it would have been so easy to have shown one of the kids calling a parent.

More than anything, I am uneasy about the portrayal of women this season.

quote:
Fourth: What good would tying MMIT up with ropes, etc. do? Why couldn't they just use their powers to break their bonds (we see Tess struggling against the ropes). Even if they couldn't escape from all the "soldiers" (no more than Max and Tess faced alone in Copper Summit), why did they allow themselves to be be bound in this way? Were the skins using some kind of "Twylonite" rope?

This scene just didn't work.

quote:
I keep waiting for Ming the Merciless to arrive at any minute, kidnap Liz, shrink and imprison her in a tiny crystalline bee hive in the 8th dimension, and threaten to destroy her and Earth with his death ray unless Max submits to a life of slavery in the Horkinite mines on the planet Speedo.

I love Roswell, look forward to each week, and have converted friends who are still liking the show even though they are myth and scifi savvy.

Rosta

Handblasting- basically Telekinesis- seems universal. I agree on this, anyways. This doesn't rule out some aliens having a particular gift for it- I think Michael may be able to put a lot of power into it.

Mindwarp Tess only, agreed. In addition to illusions I think this is how Tess contacted Isabel for help in Surprise. (Was Isabel better able to 'hear' Tess than Max or Michael would be because of her dreamwalking ability?)

Dreamwalking
Isabel and only Isabel. Now that you mention it, she probably was reading Courtney during the interrogation. It functions for communication as well as for gaining knowledge, making it remarkably versatile.

Nicholas can do something similar to Isabel's waking dreamwalk, but much more powerful and sinister. (Mind rape.) We have no evidence that he can visit dreams or send information as Isabel can. I therefore conclude his ability is similar, but distinct.

Healing We've seen all of them heal (Isabel healed Michael at least once, I think it was Independence Day but I'm not sure). Any of them could have healed Kyle, but it was Max who did- perhaps he is particulary good at this, even though they can all do it to some degree.

Shields Max's shield was larger, Isabel's moved backwards. In both cases it seems a variant of TK, so in principle any Alien should be able to do it, but it may be difficult to figure out how to maintain it.

I don't buy the offensive-defensive distinction, btw. A shield can kill by deflecting an attack. Michael's energy bolt defended Valenti by killing Pierce. Power is power, everything depends on how and why it is used.

Visions Liz got a vision from Nasedo (in Max form) that we can be pretty sure he wasn't deliberately sending. These are "human powers" and Liz now has one of them!

When Isabel kissed Alex in Sexual Healing, she said she saw "Nothing... nothing relevant." She had a vision. Stargazers are still complaining about not learning what it was, but her words don't make sense unless she had a vision of some sort.

quote:Actually, I wondered if Tess really did it, or if Maria did. Except Tess did say she tapped into something weird. Maybe when Maria did the reverse charge Tess harnessed it and deflected it.

I think that the loose energy from the ending of the time field was accidentally tapped into by Tess, converting her illusion to reality. The timing works.

I also don't believe she killed all the Skins, without any of them even trying to deflect the blast. It is too easy a victory. Besides, the amount of skin floating in the air seemed less than when Whitaker was killed. I think she drove them off, but some, maybe even most survived.

This means the Skin arc isn't over, although it may not come up for the next episode or two. That kid was definitely Nicholas. I suspect he revealed himself deliberately as part of the twisted game of psychological warfare he is using against the Pod Squad.
==
Isabel was chained to the ceiling of the bus. Later, all four of the Aliens were somehow tied to those pillars in the school. How come they seemed unable to fight? Isabel seemed confident she could take on Nicholas as soon as she was released (in the bus), but they all seemed physicall helpless while tied up. Were the Skins somehow blocking their powers once they surrendered? If so, how did Tess manage that fire? Is it because she was originally using a purely mental ability, the Mind Warp, and only physical abilities are blocked?
==
I loved Wipe Out, btw. Yes, of course it had flaws. But it was a really good episode. I like the Skin arc, and I think Nicholas is an effective villain- I love hating him!

Gotta agree with you, Tepp. I was so excited last week when they searched Whitaker's office, i.e., actually followed up on one possible source of info--but this week they were back to their we-want-to-know-but-won't-ask-or-look ways. Frankly, I really did not like last night's ep from a sci fi or any other perspective. I'm glad a lot of folks did like it, but I'm just hoping that next week isn't the bad knock-off of The Wish that the promo seems to promise.

See... I agree with you. Don't get me wrong, I do. But the pod squad is keeping SO many secrets from one another, I wonder why their not asking questions of Courtney (a reasonable course of action, IMHO) is the one that raises the eyebrow.

Why are none of them confiding in each other? Why didn't they ask Nasedo about their powers, their home planet, who they were in their past lives, etc., before he went off as Pierce in "Destiny"? Why didn't they ask him any questions when he came back to do damage control when Pierce's bones were found?

I can rationalize Isabel's not telling Max about Vilandra, but their secrecy is what is going to destroy them all. Regarding Courtney, I suppose we could rationalize that they didn't ask her any questions because she was dying (a better rationalization, IMHO, than why they didn't get all their answers from Nasedo in "Destiny" or "Skin and Bones"), but having to pro-actively rationalize my very natural questions just gives me a headache. The sci-fi is bordering on just plain BAD, and that's not easy to write.

And the whole multi-phase thing I *have* to just accept at face-value, or I'll really get a headache.

quote:She slips away, and Max goes in search of her. We later see him enter the UFO museum, apparently for the first time, but Tess asks, "did you find her?" If Max was not just then coming back from his search, why would Tess ask him that? How could she know where he'd been unless he told her?

I actually assumed he'd come in to let them know that Is disappeared and then went after her - but you're right, that's a pretty big gaffe.

I'm cutting Roswell a whole lot of slack here.

quote:I know people are going to get mad, and they're going to assume I don't like Roswell. The fact is, I'm not liking it very much at this point because it is, quite simply, out of control.

I agree. My biggest problem with Roswell at the moment - actually, my only problem - is that the writers seemed to throw all their cookies into one bag, hoping to get the season continued, and now that it's worked, they're sort of fumbling the ball, trying to continue the tension and grandiose mission they established in "Destiny". The writing team needs to work closer together. We can't have Jason Katims writing very realistic relationship fiction and merge that with completely far-out sci-fi. It's not an imbalance in time, it's an imbalance of worlds, and it requires the viewer to spend waaay too much energy actively and consciously suspending disbelief. That's a death wish for a sci-fi program.

Of course, having said that, I really liked Tess' firestarter abilities. I thought it rocked.

Whiteotter

Hi Resurrect the Humans!

Absolutely! Either of them can be half-alien. But for consistency's sake they better not turn out to be "fully" alien or else the writers should come up with a plausible reason for why they disappeared in this eppy.

LSS

On not getting information from Nasedo or Courtney: Neither was very forthcoming when queried, and, as I explained above, now we know why: Information leaves one open to Nickolas mind raping.

And on the differentiation of human vs alien in the podsters, specifically why they didn't get caught in the time warp: My dear students of WB Roswell, have you forgotten what we learned in Season 1? They are fully human, but millions of years more evolved. Now I am not going to defend this concept in the world as we know it, but it is a given fact in our televisionland, so please don't forget it again as I'm sure it will come up on another pop quiz.

Finally, just want to give my opinion on the Liz thing: Max recognized her in gradeschool as part of a timewarp memory ala FM--that is, she was necessary to save them all, and his future self knew that. But, falling in love with her was not part of the original 'script.' It just, you know, happened. And the rest is Roswell.

First: why didn't anyone think to ask Courtney some basic questions. For example, what's the name of our planet? What does it look like, and how does it differ from earth? What are our names? What do we look like? What is the political structure of our planet? What are the different factions/species -- how do they differ and what does each want? Who are K'var and Nicholas? What brought about their victory? Why were we sent to earth? What's the Granolith? How does it work, and what exactly does it do?

Well--we can agree on one point--that the one consistency in Roswell is the amazing lack of curiosity when confronted with a possible source of information. Nesedo...Tess' recovered memories...Courtney...Nicholas.... I mean, they could have asked for a translation of that book at some point, couldn't they?

quote:Second: So what's the deal? Are MMIT alien or human? Is it their alien blood cells that kept them from succumbing to the mysterious multi-phasic time? Again, how is that their "human" powers are exactly the same as Nicholas' alien ones?

Tepp...actually SF wise, it is plausible that those alien cells would have been sufficient to exempt them from the time phase field.

But you are right about Nicholas' powers. You know, if our writers were smart, they'd go something like this: the skins and Max's people are two different species/Max's people's powers can't match the skins/advanced human powers can/Max & co. needed to be bioengineered human so they could tap into those powers. Do I think that's where we are going? Probably not--too bad!

QUOTE]Third: Just what is inside the husks? Did Tess's fire disintegrate it or only breach the husk, and does it dissolve instantly on contact with Earth's atmosphere (that's pretty corrosive)?[/QUOTE]

I'd say the husk was breached since the end result was the same as before. BTW it could be atmospheric pressure not simply the content of the atmosphere.

Or...if those shreads of skin are the husk, then it makes sense to suppose the beings might not be coporeal.

quote:Fourth: What good would tying MMIT up with ropes, etc. do? Why couldn't they just use their powers to break their bonds (we see Tess struggling against the ropes). Even if they couldn't escape from all the "soldiers" (no more than Max and Tess faced alone in Copper Summit), why did they allow themselves to be be bound in this way? Were the skins using some kind of "Twylonite" rope?

Yep--this is a bad 'un...whatever happened to molecular manipulation? Unless those ropes had heavy metals in them...

quote:Fifth: How did Tess know Max was looking for a missing Isabel? After everyone but them had gone into the UFO museum, Max and Isabel remain outside, and Isabel tells only Max that she wants to go off on her own. She slips away, and Max goes in search of her. We later see him enter the UFO museum, apparently for the first time, but Tess asks, "did you find her?" If Max was not just then coming back from his search, why would Tess ask him that? How could she know where he'd been unless he told her? And if he had just told her, why would she need to ask?

This isn't necessarily a SF issue...just bad writing.

quote:I keep waiting for Ming the Merciless to arrive at any minute, kidnap Liz, shrink and imprison her in a tiny crystalline bee hive in the 8th dimension, and threaten to destroy her and Earth with his death ray unless Max submits to a life of slavery in the Horkinite mines on the planet Speedo. But what the hell do I know? -- Roswell is growing its audience daily!

You know, your last point is something to think about. Think about SF programs in general. Some are action packed while others are fairly sophisticated. Our analysis on Roswell 1 has been fairly sophisticated. We have Ph.D's alongside 13 yr olds commenting on the show's SF. And the two age groups (in general)respond differently to the SF. I have a hunch that the SF we are seeing now is more of that action packed/space opera variety and really not too "sophisticated analysis friendly." A pity, but that seems to be where we are going. I mean--I can reconcile what we are seeing SF wise, but sometimes I feel I'm having to do more creative writing than our writers!

LSS

No, me too, me too!

Of course, this morning I can't get the techno-song "firestarter" out of my head. I thought it was great, too. I loved that sudden and unexpected surge in power.

Someone else here noted in passing that Max is getting increasingly isolated from the others, both the aliens and the humans. Indeed the only person he may shortly come to rely on may be Tess. Is that an accident? I think not. I once again am wondering if Tess hasn't somehow engineered all the events that have come to separate Max from the others, including the Future Max prophecy that tore him away from Liz, his most sustaining influence.

As for the conflagration last night, I'm still not quite sure of why the podsters weren't affected. If the desired result was simply to make them all pop their corks, why would a fire wall be needed at all? Of course Tess acted as though she had tapped into some great power unknowingly, but I don't buy that. I think she and the Skins are at least in some ways on the same side and want the same result. The elimination of a whole Skin army may have been an unfortunate necessity because of a greater goal -- to marginalize or even destroy our Max. If the producers and writers had any guts Tess would turn out to be K'var -- the all powerful lover of Vilandra in another life, and the current (despotic?) ruler of Twilo -- but I can't imagine the current ROSWELL regime doing anything so transgressive (not to mention so transgendered).

Meanwhile I completely agree with those that disliked 'Wipe Out,' which I found extremely silly and a mess to boot. Not only were the plot contrivances ridiculous, but the staging of many scenes was half-hearted and awkward. Though I consider Jason Behr a good actor, I thought he looked at sea more than once, as if not sure what he was playing of how to make it believable. And believability is what we are losing week by week.

As for the trailer for 'Meet the Dupes': did anyone else think of (gulp!) 'Lost in Space'? Another sci-fi show that seemed intent on lowering the average viewing age to 10?

Regarding Tess, Palomino said: Tried to mind-warp the Skins into thinking there was flame to scare them, but instead sent a real wall of flame at them. This was surprising in its violence and kill count, making Tess the podster with the highest number of kills. I think she will cope with it much better than Michael did in killing Pierce.

This is a good time to remind everyone that Tess was raised by the somewhat sociopathic Edsedo, and Tess’ tender side rarely comes out. The bathroom scene is another example of this. In a sense, Michael, too, was not raised in the most nurturing environment, and we’ve seen his rebellious streak several times. I like the way these powers have been developed as somehow relevant to their individual upbringings and personalities.

On their varying powers, both Tess and Michael have issues of control. Michael killing Pierce; Tess raising the firewall. I think the fire scene was quite convincing in that Tess was harnessing pure energy and making a mind manifestation have a physical form. I believe she said something to the effect that she thought the image of fire would scare them. She was as surprised as anyone that she decimated them.

If the Skins’ powers are the same as the Royals, and Nicholas just has exquisite control and direction, it lends credence to my theory that we are talking different races, not different species. A question: are these telekinetic/matter-changing powers common nature on Twilo, or are our Royals and the Skin leaders somehow more gifted on the home planet as well?

ClosetDCFreak said: Then the skins decide to tie up MMIT instead of killing them or quickly getting the info they needed.

I’ve mentioned this before, but I am leaning toward the belief that the Royal Four can’t be killed by Skins. There have been numerous opportunities but no real attempts. They are capable of torture and physical violence (Whitaker and Tess, eg) but can’t seem to snuff them out. If this is true, then the Ian Fleming-style "extended villanous dialogue" is a good psychological game to play. Somehow the Skins’ power is limited against the chosen ones, or the Royals have some sort of protective blessing. Anyone agree?

LSS – heat lamp, good catch. But one slight problem I have (the women will know what I mean) is the use of lotion versus water. Water dries out the skin. Lotion, or any similar oil-based emulsion, has a moisturizing effect. Stick one hand in a bowl of water and one hand in a bowl of Jergens and you’ll see what I mean. Prolonged soaking in water will ultimately dry the skin out. Just BS – Bad Science again. In Courtney's apartment she had enough lotion to rival my grandma the Avon lady. Suddenly we're relying on water?

Tepp said, on getting information out of Courtney: This is a no brainer, people. To have our aliens neglect to do this is beyond absurd.

Sorry, but the next time I’m embroiled in an alien race war, I’ll remember to whip out my pencil and get the summary of details before I go on the warpath! (Kidding.) The longer these questions are unanswered, the happier I am to theorize, hypothesize, and fantasize possible answers.

Tepp also said: If you're waiting for an explanation of what the tic-tacs were for or why he stopped using them as Harding, I woudn't hold my breath.

Great pun! No one seems to like my suggestion that the tic-tacs were to cover up Tabasco breath.

I thought it was interesting that when Nicholas and Ida went to the Crashdown and Max and Co. hid in the bathroom, Nicholas approaches the bathroom and looks in a mirror... A mirror that is not there. And he taps on the mirror and we hear the sound of him clinking the mirror, but from the podsters POV he is pounding on the door. He also never opens the door to check for them...

Did Tess create the mirror? Taking away the door and adding a mirror? Or did Nicholas? If it was Nicholas, why, does it serve some purpose? If Tess, that's very interesting, two instances now where we see her MindWarp has real physical tangible effects, the mirror was to Nicholas REAL, he could actually touch it. The fire being the other example.

Thoughts?

BTW, enjoyed all the posts so far

--KATE

As for the PodSquad being tied to the pillars: There has been a photo of that scene posted on various threads. In the photo, you see that Max's hands (and most likely the others hands) are embedded in the pillars, no ropes. I presumed that it was like having your hands molecularly phased into rock. Interesting form of bondage.

As someone else said, I think the weird POV's we've been seeing could be Skins using the time subset dimension thing and that when this ability is engaged, it renders them undetectable to the configuration of the human eye.

Elliott
What you say about Tess and her trustworthiness seems to be right. Max is now convinced about working as a group, together. I feel bad for Max though, who is now trying bring Tess into the group. He's working hard to accept her, but I don't think he's quite there.

I thought that Nikolaus's statement about Max trusting the wrong people could have suggested that he should trust Liz. I cannot think of a time were Liz has been wrong about anyone. And Liz did say in Surprise, "I don't trust her (Tess)" These words have not escaped me either.

Tess's Fire
I know this won't sit well with some of you, but I thought Maria's attempt to destroy the Green Glow Stick was not successful. I think Tess did it additionally with the fire. First, yes, this seemed pretty impossible for a car battery to do, (but given any car to do it, my $$$$ is on that Jetta). Second, Tess said she taped into something weird. Perhaps this "weirdness" also caused her to short the glow stick.

Her fire seemed to destroy just the skins. There was not scorching of walls and ceilings. She said she lost control, but the fire was pretty quick and in control. Which makes me think that Tess was able to let Nikolaus escape somehow.

Word.

But I'm enjoying it anyway.

Does anyone else think that Nicholas's ability to Mind Rape varies in degree but not in type, with Max's ability to connect with Liz in the Pilot?

Kyle & his new found beliefs I feel were tossed in to add friction between him and Valenti. It's pretty obvious that poor Jim is having a hard time dealing with it. I get the feeling he's a "good old boy" type who probably does a lot of hunting, etc. It's kind of hard to change those attitudes, and his son seems to be going in a totally different direction... I thinkt hat's really thrown him.

Question: So whenthe humans returned, we know that time has passed... Alex commented that his pancakes were cold.. but does that mean they are now missing hours in their days, or did they technicallyr eturn back tot he time they disappeared. If that's so, then what about those who "lived" for those hours the others didn't? not to mentiont aht Liz and the others disappeared at a different time thaneveryone else, so what time is it to them now?

RE: The "Button" Didn't Courtney comment about breaking the seal was unrepairable? (Can't remember her exact wording, sorry.) That implies to me that a bullet wound, which might sting like hell, seals itself over before anythign can really hit it. Perhaps by a positive pressure effect... the skin is punctured and air rushes OUT of the husk thereby giving the husk time to repair itself before Earth can leak in and make it go *poof*

I have a hard time believing that those are the only Skins on the planet. We saw many locations at the end of destiny... so that might have been a group of "important" skins (If Nicholas is to be believed), but I doubt that's allof them.

The women wailing on Courtney was pretty intense. At first I thought Tess was being a bit rough, and was surprised to see Isabel step up to it as well.

Maria didn't have drugs.. she had herbal remedies (Excluding the Pamprin *G*) A lot of people take them these days.

Let me say this: IF Liz turns up half alien I'm done with Roswell. What a lame thing to pull.

OK, the skins dont' like heat, fine. But, uh, it's freaking hot in Arizona too!

Just a side note here to point out my stupidity. We've known about the Dups for a while now... and we saw the extra pods in Summer of 47... it just dawned on me last night that, duh, we know who the other pods were for *sigh*

Was it just me or did anyone else expect the podsters to whip out the alien (Ok,I almost typed thingie here but caught myself) artifact that Brody had? I mean they went' to the UFO Center and it DID work on Michael..

tepp... LOL I'm with ya on the basic questions thing *G*

Did Nasedo know about Nicholas in particular?

Perhaps Courtney was relying on the lotion for mouisture and the bath water to create a better transfer of nutrients? Just a thought.

*sigh* Tired of the nearly Tess bashing. Just had tog et that out.

Still curious as to Nicholas comments about Max... "Tarnished throne" and "flip of a coin." I get the feeling that while Max might have been powerful, he wasn'tt he brightest (Or perhaps compassionate isntead) of the bunch. By all indications he wasn't the best of leaders. Then again, Nicholas could be blowing smoke...

Also noticed the Nicholas usage in the series from the books... found it interesting...

Thoughtful stuff, as always, Labyrinth. I think we were supposed to understand that the organic residents of Roswell disappeared in a time fold (I just coined a phrase, people) but the inorganic matter, namely, pancakes, CDs, baby carriages, and cars, stayed right where they were. When the time fold was ironed out, the nonliving objects had succumbed to the passage of time but the living beings had not. Hence, the pancakes were cold, but according to human time, it wasn't any later. Liz and the other humans who were present during the time fold were returned back to roughly where they were when they disappeared.

quote:Originally posted by Labrynth:

I have a hard time believing that those are the only Skins on the planet. We saw many locations at the end of destiny... so that might have been a group of "important" skins (If Nicholas is to be believed), but I doubt that's allof them.

Good point also. Perhaps the Skins we saw get flamed were just the ones working on the Valandra project. Meaning, they're all from Puerto Rico. (Sorry, couldn't resist.) Courtney's faction, of which she's the only member so far, followed Michael politically. There could be subgroups dedicated in some way to Max (doubtful) and Tess as well.

quote:Originally posted by Labrynth:
Still curious as to Nicholas comments about Max... "Tarnished throne" and "flip of a coin." I get the feeling that while Max might have been powerful, he wasn'tt he brightest (Or perhaps compassionate isntead) of the bunch. By all indications he wasn't the best of leaders. Then again, Nicholas could be blowing smoke...

Though the Sci Fi thread isn't the best place to address this, I think we're learning to see Max as a flawed leader, probably overly emotional, and plagued by Hamletesque indecision. This makes him kind of endearing and, for lack of a better word, human. Still, we learn his powers were/are unmatched.

So who has any new Granolith theories given what Courtney has said in this episode, more or less confirming Whitaker's earlier statements?

Just one more thing for all of you, to paraphrase Maria, Reggie, and others:
IF YOU CAN HEAR ME OVER THE SOUND OF YOUR RAPIDLY INFLATING OUTRAGE AND FRUSTRATION, THE REASON THE PODSQUAD DIDN'T GET ANSWERS OUT OF NASEDO AND COURTNEY IS BECAUSE IT WOULD MAKE THEM TARGETS OF MIND RAPING. Okay, that's enough shouting; I will be quiet now--except how come killing Skins doesn't seem to bother anyone anymore?

Juniper: Sorry but the excuse that the fab 4 didn't have time to query Courtney because of the war won't wash. For one thing, Michael and Maria drove to and from Copper Summit - a ride pf several hours each way -- with her. That's an extended period of time under no duress we know about.

Shapeshifter: As for Courtney guarding against mind rape -- most of the obvious questions that our 4 intrepid aliens would most want answered (the name of their planet, what they look like, etc.) are inconsequential to the skins. The irony is that our enemies, especially the skins, have told us much more than our friends.

The reason I make so much of this is that it is so central to the premise of the show and to the characters themselves. This particular inconsistency reveals how far the writing of the show has fallen. I'm going to say more about this on LSS's new reflections thread shortly.

Labrynth: Your analysis of the time distortion's varied effects on living and inanimate objects seems more to highlight rather than resolve the inconsistencies in this episode. However, it does shed light on a likely possibility. Quite probably, only a few or none of the skins were killed by Tess's fireball. Since it happened at the same time as Maria's short-circuiting the field generator, the skins may have returned to another time -- like before they arrived in Roswell (which is the "time" when all the humans return). The fact that some like Courtney were killed during the distortion wouldn't change this.

quote:1) TIME AND OUR ALIENS. Season 2 has introduced the notion of "time" now in two distinct ways: a) time travel (via the granolith), and b) time shifts/phases. In tonight's episode we were told that the skins have the technology to cause time shifts/phases that are biological entity specific. That is a fascinating concept. Off the top of my head I cannot think of another SF story which uses that story element. There are stories where shifts remove all life forms or stories where life forms from a different time zone phase in and out...but I don't think I recall technology that can target specific types of life forms. Can anyone think of some stories where this was used?

Time, we are told, exists in multiple subsets. And the skin technology can control these. Whether or not the targeted life forms go to another dimension or plain of existence is not clear, though these suggestions are raised in tonight's storyline. What did you think of this new direction in Roswell's SF framework? Was it plausible? Of course I shall NOT comment on the strategic location of that tube that spit forth the green blob that activated the force field...ahem...but believe me my 12 yr old did not exercise the same restraint...SHE commented on it in great length!
LSS

I found the concept a little wild. Isn't time a universal constant? Won’t it will affect all of us, human or otherwise, in the same way? If it is possible (and by that I mean in SF reality) what in the alien's physiology could give them the capability of existing in multiple time frames?

quote:Feel free to disagree with me here but i felt that the science fiction of this episode was terrible. To start with, i found it rather convenient (a word i will be using a lot in this post) that the time-disrupting thingy was on the billboard for all to see. You'd think the skins would be smart about it and hide it somewhere. Also, if the device is powerful enough to disrupt time the way it did, I doubt the current from a car battery would do much. A car battery can't even turn the engine of your car until the amps are stepped up by a transformer in the car. So i doubt the current straight off the battery would hurt an alien device.
closetDCfreak

No disagreement here. I'm beginning to wonder why the writers for Roswell are putting out such mediocre sci-fi. The WB has no excuses. There are great writers right here on this board who
would probably do it for free!

But I am able to take a leap of faith concerning the time-distorting device. When people ask questions like, "If this thimagigy is powerful enough to do this, then it should be powerful enough to do that" I think of the classes I'm taking; learning how the machines that we use actually work. They are powerful tools, but they do have their limitations. Just because the aliens have a technology that is more powerful than ours, that can do things that we can only dream of, doesn't make that technology foolproof.

It was pretty stupid to stick the time-disrupter in such an obvious place, but the Skins probably weren't thinking long-term. They just thought they'd disrupt time, swoop in, kill the
podsters, and then be gone.

quote: Fourth: What good would tying MMIT up with ropes, etc. do? Why couldn't they just use their powers to break their bonds?
tepp

Even if there were no heavy metals in the pillars that imprisoned the pod squad, I think that if you can use power to alter the molecular structure of an object, you can use power to keep it together. There were a lot of skins there, Nicholas could have assigned two of them to each podster to maintain the integrity of the pillars.

quote:I still say it's possible for Maria or Liz to be half-alien.
Ressurect_The_Humans

Why? Isn’t the whole premise of Max and Liz’s romance based on the fact that they are star-crossed lovers? Two people who have fallen in love in spite (or maybe even because of) their differences? Would finding out that she’s not human make her more special, would it enhance any of the qualities in her that Max fell in love with? I think not. I’m curious, why would you want Liz or Maria to be an alien?

Before I sign off I’d like to say on a totally non-scifi note that I found the interaction between the characters, especially Maria and Liz (remember the hug they shared at the end?), and Max and Liz especially endearing in this episode. The sci fi basically sucked, but I have no complaints about the personal relationships.

about the multilayered-time-dimensional thingie... I know I've heard or read theories (probably in some dusty sci-fi book) that time exists more like concentric circles, or layers, or waves, rather than a straight line. The idea of layers of diminsions existing within the same space is not new... just hard to wrap your mind around.

about Kyle and Buddhism ... I'm not sure if there is a true forshadowing thing going on here... I think it may just be a character development device, showing us how Kyle is dealing with this whole situation, and additionally allowing the character to grow. I personally love this added dimension (gahhh, I think I've over used that word in this post ) to Kyle's character.

can't think of anything profound to add to the conversation right now... late... must...get...sleep...

It was my impression that Tess "created" the mirror and took away the door as a means of hiding "Max&Co." But you're right -- this is the first time someone has touched her "illusions". I think that was just a blooper or more BS on the part of the writers.

About Tess and the fireball. When I first saw the ep, my impression was that Maria's blowing up the green stick was related to the fireball. Like maybe the energy released when the green stick exploded affected Tess in some way. The writers seemed to make a point of showing that these 2 events occurred simultaneously.

So if this is the case, why was Tess affected when the others weren't? Perhaps she was the one who planted the green stick in the first place and was tied to it somehow. We still don't have a good sense if Tess is good or evil, but it's a possibility anyway.

Thoughts?

That would make sense... just those who have a need to be on the "Vilandra Project" would be in on it. I can buy that.

Really interesting that Maria could have effected Tess' Mind Warp and vice versa...

quote:Labrynth: Your analysis of the time distortion's varied effects on living and inanimate objects seems more to highlight rather than resolve the inconsistencies in this episode.

Last I knew that was the sci fi thread, not inconsistancies And I never claimed to have any answers. While I can understand that those who got zapped inthe first shot would be dropped back tot he same time when they disappeared, I have trouble believing that Liz, Maria and Kyle could do exactly the same... since they disappeared at a different time. Is it possible that the others appeared first and then the trip appeared at a slightly later date due tot he time they experience outside/inside the time fold?

Way not buying that they didn't question Courtney ont he basis of Mind Rape. A) They didn't know what that was until this episode. Courtney was open for questiosn alst eppy too. B) As someone previously stated, simple things liek the freaking name of their planet is stuff that the Skins alreayd know and thus not really "valuable" information.

Ok, will probably be flamed or some such for this but:

Tess said she tapped in to somethign strange. Frankly, I believe her. I think she fears the loss of control that this force made. Why? Because losing control is strictly human. Animals dont' "Lose control" and kill each other. They do it out of instinct and a will to survive. If Tess loses control she becomes more human. I think we've all seen how much that thought bothers her.

I just had to throw this out there... we are all assuming that the podsters didn't question Courtney at all beyond what we saw. Yet, in this very episode we are shown that we do not always see what is happening... When Nicholas MindRapes Courtney we are shown two scenes that we did not actually see occur in real time. When Courtney asks about the granilith, in real time, we cut away. We now know that Michael did indeed answer her about it. How many more things did indeed occur that we just haven't been privy to yet? It's only a 45 minute show, they can't show every conversation that takes place and still have a story line! Granted, I realize we are missing some valuable information that it would seem like we should get. I too would love to get more info about the podsters past... it is a bit irking that they didn't ask Courtney more, but I still don't think it's such a huge deal. I'm hoping that when Max confronts Michael about him spilling the secret of the granilith, Michael reveals some of the stuff Courtney told him...

Just had to throw that in there...

--KATE

You know that is an extremely nice catch on your part! It is a reminder to us all that storytellers often leave gaps they are not really interested in filling in because they do not fit with what they are trying to emphasize. Of course, that doesn't keep us from asking the questions...!

LSS

You know that is an extremely nice catch on your part! It is a reminder to us all that storytellers often leave gaps they are not really interested in filling in because they do not fit with what they are trying to emphasize. Of course, that doesn't keep us from asking the questions...!

LSS

Oh, sure! Everyone's been fussing about how did Tess know that Isabel was missing? Obviously there's a cut scene where Max poked his head into the Museum, and told them Is wandered off and he was looking for her.

But think about some other things that seem instinctual to Max -- his stubbornness and his strictness and his rigidity once a decision has been reached, and we come somewhat closer to the kind of ruler he may have been: authoritarian, quick to judgement, quick of temper, unforgiving when crossed and likely quite punitive. There must be a reason he was betrayed on many sides and was seen as a controversial ruler. I think we are looking at a volatile bunch of customers on Twilo, more Klingon than Vulcan. Remember that in Max (and Is and Michael) we are seeing the new, improved editions -- they can be better now than they were them. But they (and we) have yet to learn just what they were then.

On Riverdog: Rebecca's post on page three of this thread mentioned Riverdog and that was something that suddenly occurred to me this morning while shaving -- this season no Riverdog and no Eddie (or Friggin' Eddie as we all enjoy calling him here). Though I sometimes found this native American thing hokey in the first season, it undeniably added a certain texture to the show, and was true to ROSWELL's roots in the Southwest. The loss of these characters is another symptom of how bland and two-dimensional the show has gotten.

And wouldn't the folks on the reservation have noticed the sudden lack of people in town?

Tess said she tapped in to something strange. Frankly, I believe her. I think she fears the loss of control that this force made. Why? Because losing control is strictly human. Animals dont' "Lose control" and kill each other. They do it out of instinct and a will to survive. If Tess loses control she becomes more human. I think we've all seen how much that thought bothers her.
I agree. I think that, under extreme pressure, Tess pulled up something like the "hysterical strength" that humans have. You know the story, car runs over kid, Mom picks up car and rescues kid. We've seen the other podsters "tap into something alien" - why not Tess? Especially if (remember?) she faintly recalls impresions of Twilo. I think she was half-recognising Nikolas, or whoever he was on Twilo, and was afraid. Very afraid.

To misquote So47 again, that scream was the sound a mother Tess makes when her own are threatened.

Also, why do all the people dissapear and not the food and other organic stuff? People and animals and plants (hence food) are all made up of the same stuff. As are a lot of other things. So why do just people dissapear? Someone may have said this already because i haven't read the entire thread so sorry if i am repeating.

PRS

P.S. - The time altering device was glass which isn't a conductor of electricity. This is another reason that Maria's car battery shouldn't have done anything to it.

P.S. - The time altering device was glass which isn't a conductor of electricity. This is another reason that Maria's car battery shouldn't have done anything to it.[/B]

We can assume that as opposed to glass, the 'probe' was some alien substance (no Cadmium X jokes, please).

I want to add to tepp's aggravation with me...language is a funny thing. It only has meaning if all parties understand. English is limited. Sounds and names in their native tongue may have no relevance in the present. The name of their planet may be utterly unpronounceable here, or have no meaning whatsoever, as with other details. Did you see Daryl Hannah in Splash, shattering glass when Tom Hanks asks what her real name is? I stay
firmly on the side of don't ask, don't tell...I' rather have my fantasies. Pthh. But otherwise, you rule.

I think it was probably a very human reaction to a very nasty sounding meal... frijoles means beans, a frittata is sort of like an omelet. Mix the two and you've got a meal that would make even my cast iron, human stomach do a back-flip.

Ree

I was under the impression from what Nacedo told Michael in Season 1 that the aliens' powers came from their human nature. And yet Niko tells Max that he used to be stronger than him (Niko) on the homeworld. Has there been any discussion about powers the aliens might have had on the homeworld versus powers the aliens now have on Earth?

Ree

The science fiction in this episode was illogical to say the least, but it was enjoyable to watch visually. Green smoke to represent an electrical energy surge/field? Firestarter Tess "wipesout" helium filled husks?

I don't have a problem with Nicholas touching the mirror in Tess's mindwarp. If you are going to do an illusion, it doesn't just have to extend visually but also to taste, touch, sound, feel, smell... you get the idea. Personally, I don't think the skins are "wiped out" just scared into another "time fold."

And what is it with the Elvis references? Elvis Costello sings in the background that "Alison is killing me" and Elvis shrines and Elvis chapels. Is the King really dead?

Was that Michael in the shroud in Max's memory/flash/vision evoked by Nicholas? or somebody else? Does Max remember that he spilled the beans on the location of the Granolith?

I think the podsters were the ones that were warped into a "time fold" not the humans. So you have to ask why did Liz & Maria & Valenti & Kyle end up there, too? I think it is because of the amount of time and emotional investment these four have in the aliens. Alex isn't linked with Isobel on any of these levels.

If anyone has read the CW diary on silverhandprint.com, she comments that she can "smell" Max Evans on Liz Parker. I think that is a clue to why the gang ended up in the time warp of Roswell. It also means that the "baby" doesn't fall out of the baby carriage because the podsters 'reality' had no effect on the human one...get my drift.

And as to the creepy bondage and interrogation scenes in this episode, I think that was the worst part about it but hopefully it was all an illusion cooked up by Nicholas. The villain we love to hate!

Maybe we use the Granolyth to put them together? Or we have the bad Tess, and we swap them for the good one? All kinds of nonsense come to mind.

I think it was probably a very human reaction to a very nasty sounding meal... frijoles means beans, a frittata is sort of like an omelet. Mix the two and you've got a meal that would make even my cast iron, human stomach do a back-flip.

Ree

How do you feel about a pork omelet, with gravy over it? Yuck, right? But that's pork egg fu young, a reasonable Chinese dish.
Just put enough Tabasco on it, and they'll eat it.

Oh, and the thing that did in the "time-zone machine" was the magnetic field from the electrical current running through the jumper cables. Magnetism goes through glass, etc. easily.

I'll be off the board for the next six days at a professional convention. Could I ask a favor? Since I won't even see Dupes till late Monday night when I get home, can one of you be sure that the Science Fiction of Dupes thread gets posted? Sometimes (as in this episode) a moderator starts it. Other times, I've started it with some observations and questions to get the ball rolling.

Thanks and see you next week on the boards!

LSS

I'll be off the board for the next six days at a professional convention. Could I ask a favor? Since I won't even see Dupes till late Monday night when I get home, can one of you be sure that the Science Fiction of Dupes thread gets posted? Sometimes (as in this episode) a moderator starts it. Other times, I've started it with some observations and questions to get the ball rolling.

Thanks and see you next week on the boards!

LSS

Unless someone has a serious objection, I will be happy to start the thread.

They never explain how Courtney gets into her new Husk. Just *poof* - she's in rusty bathwater and that's it.

They never explain (as far as I could tell) why she dies anyway. Wasn't the new Husk supposed to extend her life 50 years?

They never explain how multiple time dimensions can exist on another planet (but not on this one?). And what does that MEAN - to have multiple coexisting time dimensions?

How did a major electrical burst have any effect on time dimensions?

This isn't really scifi, but why did Max say "Valandra" cryptically after the Skins were blasted away.

Why was Valenti affected by his coming disappearance (shortness of breath, dizziness, a sense that he was about to go), but Kyle/Liz/Maria/Mrs. Evans just vanished without warning?

Argh!!
[/B]
I just wanted to comment on this.
1) I think Courtney just took off her old husk and put on the new one. The water probably protected her 'real' body.
2) She pressed the button and died because of it. thats all. and Courtney did say that she didn't know how long the husk would last because it wasn't quite matured yet
3)??
4)The electrical burst probably just interrupted the flow
5)Max said 'Vilandra' cryptically because they had all heard of Vilandra and knew it meant something and Isabel didn't tell them about it which made it worse. I'm glad one of the characters pointed this out. Should be interesting...Will max continue to trust Is??
6)Actually, i think that Liz was another human that had a reaction. Liz got all worried about Max and wanted to tell him everything. I think this caused the humans to tell their true feelings or simply become apprehensive. Maybe Maria and Kyle were just too apprehensive already about the situation to feel any affects.
I liked this episode though i did think some of the early scenes (and some cliff-hangers) were kind of stupid. I thought the Courtney thing was good. I liked her in this ep for the first time, while I am hating Tess more and more...wonder why??!! Ok, so im a dreamgirl...but Courtney saved their lives! THEN sacrificed her own . By the way... Nikolas said this right after she killed herself: "Now that's a soldier" I wonder if Courtney was a member of Michael's 'army' back home...?? Maybe they were involved in the past life and like that which has been said so often..."History always repeats itself." Because of this statement, i'm paying a lot more attention to what is going on...thinking of the possibilities that this did happen in their past lives... this is what makes me think that Liz still might be half-alien... Kyle didn't see anything when Max healed him...Liz did... that is what it always seems to come back too... Is it possible that not only Max and Tess have a history..but also Max and Liz??!! I was thinking she was a different kind of alien or something..from a different planet to Max's?? And that Max didn't love Tess but he was forced to marry her and he was in love with someone else...Liz. They had an affair or something...hmmmm who knows!!?? Does everyone think I'm crazy??!! Oh i hope there is something else to this entire thing that will bring M/L back together!! I can have my theories!!
Max&Liz4EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ranelle
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I love her. What can I say?"
"...You're hopeless."

But think about some other things that seem instinctual to Max -- his stubbornness and his strictness and his rigidity once a decision has been reached, and we come somewhat closer to the kind of ruler he may have been: authoritarian, quick to judgement, quick of temper, unforgiving when crossed and likely quite punitive. There must be a reason he was betrayed on many sides and was seen as a controversial ruler. I think we are looking at a volatile bunch of customers on Twilo, more Klingon than Vulcan. Remember that in Max (and Is and Michael) we are seeing the new, improved editions -- they can be better now than they were them. But they (and we) have yet to learn just what they were then.

On Riverdog: Rebecca's post on page three of this thread mentioned Riverdog and that was something that suddenly occurred to me this morning while shaving -- this season no Riverdog and no Eddie (or Friggin' Eddie as we all enjoy calling him here). Though I sometimes found this native American thing hokey in the first season, it undeniably added a certain texture to the show, and was true to ROSWELL's roots in the Southwest. The loss of these characters is another symptom of how bland and two-dimensional the show has gotten.

And wouldn't the folks on the reservation have noticed the sudden lack of people in town?

I miss River Dog too!!!
About Max as leader: I think he is a good leader! You mentioned something about quick temper, unforgiving etc. I don't think he was or is like this at all. I mean after Kyle stood up to him before going to the billboard and bringing the humans back, Max didn't get mad or anything (though you could tell he was kind of pissed-understandable since this guy supposedly slept with his true love...) Max gave him a tip about how to get there and wished him luck!! I think this is VERY good of Max!!! You could tell it was very hard for him but he did it because he knew Kyle was right!! And this is the guy who supposedly slept with Liz!!!! I commend the writers for doing such an excellent job with his character in this eppy. Totally Max! He is toooo nice. And remember in Ask Not?? Michael wanted to kill the new owner of The UFO center and Max was going to until he realized it was too dangerous. NOW THAT IS GOOD JUDGEMENT!!!!!! Don't you agree?? (i loved that scene, Max walking while these horrible thoughts came back of all these people being hurt or shot..good move!!) I really don't get how people are saying he isn't a good leader!!

The Elvis thing is cool!! I love it, especially with all the Elvis-is-an-alien stuff that has been rumoured for the past years!!

Someone talked about the memories that Nikolas raped Max of. Did anyone notice how Liz was like the 2nd thing to be seen!!?? hmmm... What would have been really cool is if Niko recognised her... Alien Liz!!

Does anyone think that it was Nikolas in the park at the end?? It looked like him but in the park? And why didn't they run after him?
It was a good ending though because we're left wondering. I don't think we will see Niko for a while but i have a feeling he'll be back...
One thing that is kind of bothering me is that with every eppy, TONS of questions arise but we get no answers. And then They always seem to get into another situation in the next episode without answering any questions!! I WANNA KNOW!!!! agh!! it's sort of frustating but it keeps me watching!! Not that i'm in need of it to keep watching!!
Meet The Dupes looks interesting but i hope it isn't too cheezy. Wanda described it as them saying Yo Yo etc... I hope its not TOO bad or else it will be stupid. I hope they are able to answer SOME questions.
By the way, Tess DID NOT like COurtney at all in this ep... hmmm. THe sad thing for me is that Tess is really becoming a part of the group which i absolutely HATE!! cause i HATE tess!!!! DId anyone else notice that Max was touching her like ALL the time!!! I even noticed it in the scene in the UFO center where Kyle, Liz and Maria were leaving to save the humans. Right after Liz left and Max noticed Courtney was gone, his hand was on her back!!! AGHHHHHHHH sorry This doesn't have much to do with sci-fi huh... sorry, i just saw the eppy yesturday, then the message board was down and i haven't gone to the discussion of Wipe-out yet.
Anyway...What does everyone think?
Ranelle
~~~~~~~~~~~
"I love her. What can I say?"
"...You're hopeless."

And ree99, the scifi threads of Season 2 are at http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/SciFiThreads/

LSS

Liz did NOT see anythign when Max healed her as far as we know. In th ePilot, Max heals her, then later he mentioned her cupcake dress which freaks her. He then approaches her LATER at the Crashdowna nd tries to explain how he saw. THEN he tries a reverse connection with her so she could see what it was like.

We've never had any indication that Liz saw things when she was healed. He comment to Kyle, IMHO was a blooper on the writers' parts.

Liz did NOT see anythign when Max healed her as far as we know. In th ePilot, Max heals her, then later he mentioned her cupcake dress which freaks her. He then approaches her LATER at the Crashdowna nd tries to explain how he saw. THEN he tries a reverse connection with her so she could see what it was like.

We've never had any indication that Liz saw things when she was healed. He comment to Kyle, IMHO was a blooper on the writers' parts.

However, we don't really know that she didn't see "flashes, images" when she was healed, just that when he reversed the connection that she saw herself as he saw her and that "in his eyes [she] was beautiful." I think there is room for the writers to put that in TEOTW, especially if it is to fit with a future revelation. But if it does not turn out to be pivotal, I would agree that it is a blooper or at least a rough spot.

But the aliens were very likely different creatures back on the home planet. They had no human charactistics to soften them then. Picture some of Max's less likeable traits and then imagine them unleavened by his human kindness and you begin to see why not everyone was thrilled with his reign.

Even Diane Evans house had a plant on the windowsill...when did that get there? And why does she wear a ring over the gloves she's using to wash the dishes?

Not only that, the gloves were "skin" colored and had long red fingernails!

Even Diane Evans house had a plant on the windowsill...when did that get there? And why does she wear a ring over the gloves she's using to wash the dishes?

Not only that, the gloves were "skin" colored and had long red fingernails!

I thought the ring, like the nails, was molded into the gloves. Anyway, a clue about the Skins' clothes? But recall they took some off (but not all!) to bathe her.

I think the granolith is going to make me crazy. What is it with the granolith?

TL&V: Nasedo to Tess, "How could you bring them here?"
Tess to Nasedo, "Why don't you just kill them, according to Max you've done that before"

WR: Tess to I/M/M/A in the jeep, "Nasedo said if anything ever happened to him we have to go to the podchamber. Everything depends on it." (did Tess know the granolith was there all this time? I don't think so, but I do think Nasedo did.)

Surprise: CW to Isabel: "We can't survive here - we need the granolith"

Harvest: Nicholas to Isabel: "Where's the granolith"

Wipout: Courtney to Michael: "the granolith can help"
Nicholas to Courtney: "you have secret.....the location of the granolith - now that's a plus." I sort of got the impression that the granolith isn't what Nicholas was really after.

We know FM came back from 2014 in it. FM told Liz is was very powerful. The Skins lead me to think it also has healing properties. It didn't sound as if the Skins were thinking about it as a mode of transportation. I kind of think Nasedo thought about it in those terms though. He just couldn't go home until the podsters were grown, yada, yada. I wonder how the Skins got here. They came after the podsters crashed. For that matter, how did the granolith get here? Has it always been here? Maybe Earth and the podsters/skin home world are twin worlds(?) Maybe the podsters/skins homeworld had their own granolith and it was destroyed somehow by a weapon. Perhaps that is the explosion we see in Liz's flashes - the granolith exploding - maybe it destroyed their planet totally and there is no place to go back to. Maybe the podsters have been sent here to prevent that same thing from happening to Earth.

Maybe, Maybe, Maybe...... I know, we don't have any answers yet. My mind is just wandering this afternoon.

I went back and rewatched and rewatched the "reunion" scene with Isobel and Diane Evans. Mrs. Evans makes a point of lifting her hands highup, as though to make sure those weird plastic gloves are in the frame of the shot.

As usual, I point this out because I've got a theory. I think the podsters original species is more like plants than humans in genus. It makes sense that they would have "green blood" and that Congresswoman Whitaker could "smell" them. I think the people that ended up in the time warp ("timefold" is a term I like better), were covered with "pollen." The pollen from the Podsters. Now, the only other human besides Valenti, Kyle, Liz & Maria that should have disappeared but didn't according to my theory is Diane Evans.

If the Skins were out to eliminate all humans, Liz et.al. shouldn't have made it past the alien with a "big one" sign. (I don't buy Courtney's "window" theory or at least not the way it was presented to us.) So the next question becomes, if proximity to the podsters caused humans to pop into the timefold with them, why didn't it happen to Diane Evans? Perhaps she's been inoculated with anti-podster powers? We never did see Philip Evans. But I think the weird gloves were meant to symbolize that the Podsters's adoptive mother is "protected" some how from them.

Over on the "Signs & Symbols" thread there is a great discussion regarding "maize" and "corn" symbols...so if you are interested in whether our podsters were originally "little green seeds" I recommend checking it out.

I went back and rewatched and rewatched the "reunion" scene with Isobel and Diane Evans. Mrs. Evans makes a point of lifting her hands highup, as though to make sure those weird plastic gloves are in the frame of the shot.

Oh, my sister and I thought she was trying to keep from putting her wet and soapy hands on Isabel.

How do you think it works? Does he seek out and search for things that he wants? Does he read whatever is on the surface of your thoughts? Is it completely random and inexact? Does he in fact know what he is doing when he is MRing?

I bring this up because of the info he took from Max... when he MRed Courtney, the first thing he got was that she had eggs that morning and then he seemed to be like, yada yada, boring stuff till he came to what he wanted. It seemed like he was running down a laundry list of things that had happened during the day...

However, when he MRed Max we saw flashes of Liz, more importantly Liz driving on the highway (which is beyond strange), had he been doing it in the laundry list sort of way, he would have seen that icky breakfast. Why was the first thing he saw from Max Liz? Some might argue that it was because she was what he was thinking about (but come on, Courtney was thinking about eggs and not Michael??). I don't really know where I'm going here (I have no big theory about this, but I'm sure the Liz Mythologists will pick up my slack)... but it did strike me as odd, especially based on the way I assumed Nicholas' power worked...

So my question remains, the true nature of Nicholas' power, the true nature of the exchange between Nicholas and Max (was Max giving Nicholas those images, was Max channeling Liz, etc infinite possibilities). The only legit thing I could come up with was that Courtney, knowing the extent of Nicholas' powers, was able to temporarily clear her mind and eradicate any pertinant info from the surface, but eventually buckled under his strength...I don't know... just random musings... anyone have any thoughts? I know this wasn't too coherent...

--KATE

PS, I just read a WONDERFUL book that I think you all might enjoy. It is called Gravity by Tess Gerritsen and was incredible.

quote:Originally posted by clarinetkate:
Hey everyone! I have a question about Nicholas' MindRaping abilities...

How do you think it works? Does he seek out and search for things that he wants? Does he read whatever is on the surface of your thoughts? Is it completely random and inexact? Does he in fact know what he is doing when he is MRing?

I bring this up because of the info he took from Max... when he MRed Courtney, the first thing he got was that she had eggs that morning and then he seemed to be like, yada yada, boring stuff till he came to what he wanted. It seemed like he was running down a laundry list of things that had happened during the day...

However, when he MRed Max we saw flashes of Liz, more importantly Liz driving on the highway (which is beyond strange), had he been doing it in the laundry list sort of way, he would have seen that icky breakfast. Why was the first thing he saw from Max Liz? Some might argue that it was because she was what he was thinking about (but come on, Courtney was thinking about eggs and not Michael??). I don't really know where I'm going here (I have no big theory about this, but I'm sure the Liz Mythologists will pick up my slack)... but it did strike me as odd, especially based on the way I assumed Nicholas' power worked...

So my question remains, the true nature of Nicholas' power, the true nature of the exchange between Nicholas and Max (was Max giving Nicholas those images, was Max channeling Liz, etc infinite possibilities). The only legit thing I could come up with was that Courtney, knowing the extent of Nicholas' powers, was able to temporarily clear her mind and eradicate any pertinant info from the surface, but eventually buckled under his strength...I don't know... just random musings... anyone have any thoughts? I know this wasn't too coherent...

--KATE

PS, I just read a WONDERFUL book that I think you all might enjoy. It is called Gravity by Tess Gerritsen and was incredible.
A few ideas:
1.I think Courtney was very weak and not able to fight him at all, so what we saw there was Mraping un-impeded. BTW, I think she was trying to get to the granolith to save herself when they captured her. If they had just followed her they would have been led right to it. But I don't think this was her intent. Likewise with what Tess said about her leading the Skins right to them. They already had Pierce's info, but yea, probably Courtney in her crazed Michael Fan mode did lead the Skins to them.

2. When Max was first being Mraped, I think either a) he tried thinking of Liz instead of the granolith, b)Liz was the first thing he thought of when he woke up that morning, or c) he always thinks of Liz in desperate times.

3.I think the middle range of thoughts Nickolas got from Max were Tessovisions that Tess put in Max's brain to block Nickolas.

4. The last visions N got from M would then be real ones of the granolith because Max was too weak, and Tess decided to focus on flame throwing instead as a more viable counter attack. Anyway, the re-incarnated Phoenix-like Nickolas now probably has some visions of the cliff where the granolith is--he just has to find it.

Hi Shapeshifter,

I just had to say that I really don't think Courtney led the skins there AT ALL. The skins knew where the Congresswoman was. They knew she was in Roswell NM... and when the podsters and Liz went there, Liz said she was Liz Parker, and they each introduced themselves with their real names. It couldn't have been that hard to find them. Knowing they were the Royal Four and that a friend of the Royal Four worked for Vanessa should have been enough to totally tip them off, forget about Courtney.

Interesting thoughts on the fact that Tess might have helped Max by implanting visions so Max wouldn't have shown him the granilith.

--KATE

shapeshifter, I have no problems with Max thinking of Liz, but I would think Max would be thinking about finding Liz in bed with Kyle. The vision of Liz seems out of place.

I don't think that Tess could control what Nicolas sees in the MR. He is touching Max directly.

Can Liz be sending Max the visions of herself? Thus being the ultimate protector of the granolith.

a) Powers we've seen from podsters, skins, and shapeshifters are similiar. These could be (mostly likely are) three different species, and to say that powers are human, would sort of imply that humans were the "primitive" ancestor to these three species. I don't like that, we know that the shapeshifters were not manuals.

b) Harding didn't like to give answers to questions. It's possible that Haring gave Michael an answer to get him to motivate him. (I am having a lot of trust issues with Harding. What has he ever said or done that has been consistant. I miss RiverDog as teacher.)

c) I think we need to look at Liz to see what "human" powers could be. And doing so, I think "the connection" is a gift that may be human based.

I've long maintained that you can't get too logical or deductive with Roswell, because nobody's flying the plane! They don't seem to plan more than one episode at a time, sometimes; I'm a diehard fan, but the inconsistencies and plotholes are just downright discouraging. The only thing you sort of rely on is the narrative habits or patterns; often, there's just no reason to have mentioned something unless they wanted to plant it because it's true. (Covert Exposition)

I also want to stress (no computer at home, I confess I haven't read all the way through, so forgive if this repeats) that the "mythology" we think we're accumulating here comes entirely from people about whom we know only one thing: they dont' mean the podsters well. Even Courtney; we know she apparently helped them in several ways, but don't know that her group's ultimate plan for them was any better than Nick's.

The constant stories they tell, CW, Courtney, & Nick, seemed aimed precisely at dividing and conquering, as if they *know* that the podgifts are stronger when used together.

Both Courtney and Nick assert that Max was a less than desirable leader - - but less than desirable by them. This may not be anything we would find distressing. For instance, on Star Trek shows, the Klingons perennially spurned the Federation and Warf bec. they were not as prone to combat and war, despising them for wanting peaceful alternatives. So did the Romulans. There were episodes that hinted of secret alliances between Klingons and Romulans - — two warring factions - - united in their mutual hatred of peace. I'm sure that their ideal of Ultimate Military Conquest would have seemed to them a "Golden Age of Peace." But not to us.

So Max may have been unsuitable, uncooperative, to both factions, but we may not end up thinking that was a bad thing. Michael may have been the military one who wanted to go along with a Nazi-like military domination, make him a more desirable choice.

Still don't trust Courtney, or Tess. I'd like to say that at least the Courtney thing is not a problem, but the story she told is corrosive, and targets Michael's most vulnerable area: the need for self-aggrandizement in order to feel self-worth.

And if Max gets wind of what they say about him, it will be equally corrosive about his feeling he's got to save everyone. Isabel has probably been chided before about being selfish and self-absorbed, and has now been told that this caused her to betray her brother and her people. It seems there is more than one kind of mind-rape.

(Interestingly, this is the kind of thing people said about the MommyGram, as a rationale for its being a projection from Tess's mindwarping gift: that it appealed to each character's inmost needs.)

He knew what the skins were, but didn't tell the podsters what to look out for, or to call him if they saw some strange skin-like stuff? Knowing they also didn't have much development of their powers, you'd think that information might be the only thing that could save them.

Maybe Nicholas can search by topic, and was just sorting through Max's brain looking for ways to get to him. The topic might have been "Things He Loves" so N. could know how to threaten him best and cause him pain.

With Courtney he didn't need that as she was really weak and on her way out. Max is supposed to be gifted, and presumably very strong, so his first few forays into Max's mind could have been simply for reconnaissance.

He knew what the skins were, but didn't tell the podsters what to look out for, or to call him if they saw some strange skin-like stuff? Knowing they also didn't have much development of their powers, you'd think that information might be the only thing that could save them.
The only thing that might make sense here is that Nasedo wanted them to be able to say AND THINK "I don't know what you're talking about" in reference to the Skins and their concerns. Recall when Isabel told Whittaker this (about the granolith) in Surprise, she meant it; but later, in Harvest, when she told Nick the same thing about the granolith, we knew she was lying. BTW, interesting that Nick seems to rely so much on his MRing abilities that he can't seem to tell when someone's lying to him by using the "normal" body language reading or logic-of-motive analysis (like in the bus scene with Isabel).
quote:Originally posted by Michelle in Yonkers:

About Nicholas's mind-raping of Max, and the images of Liz:
Maybe Nicholas can search by topic, and was just sorting through Max's brain looking for ways to get to him. The topic might have been "Things He Loves" so N. could know how to threaten him best and cause him pain.
Hmmm, so not only does Nicky have an image of the cliff that houses the granolith, but he knows Max's weakness is Liz. This will undoubtedly come up again. And, note that no images of Tess were cataloged as of yet.

1. If she knew that it wasn't fully mature, why did Courtney risk putting on the new husk? Aside from a little peeling, the old one seemed to be doing OK. Even with the 50 year mark approaching, it seems like the best bet would have been to wait as long as possible before getting into the immature one.

2. What happened to her old husk? Did it disentegrate when she removed? Did she toss it in the garbage? What?

3. We know that Tess's mind warp has limitations on the number of people effected and duration (from S&B). Does the effectiveness also vary from person to person? What does she mean when she says "I've never come up against power like that before." What power was Nicholas exerting at that time? Does Nicholas's strength include some kind of resistance to her power?

4. Not sci-fi, but why does Tess enter the CD from the back?

1. If she knew that it wasn't fully mature, why did Courtney risk putting on the new husk? Aside from a little peeling, the old one seemed to be doing OK. Even with the 50 year mark approaching, it seems like the best bet would have been to wait as long as possible before getting into the immature one...
Hi, this is really shapeshifter (notice my old posts say I'm a Fan in Training, and it seems my FF identity has been erased).
Anyway, I've been wondering about that too. I suppose maybe once it was removed from the moisture chamber it was an either wear it or toss it situation. But the fact that they didn't explain it seems fishy. I mean, they spent plenty of screen time on the fishing sequence, so I'm sure they could have had Courtney explain the necessity of wearing it if they wanted to.

This is actually a very interesting idea. I like it.

Would make a good fic *G*

About electrical matters:

1. Some high-voltage distribution lines are in the foreground of the balcony scene (as M/M check the street via telescope). One prominent item is a switch for disconnecting power from the neighborhood. (It's a knife switch; the metal bar with the ring is the blade.) Interesting bit of foreshadowing.

(Another bit seemed to be the radio-controlled car. Note: according to Starstruck, on Liz thread 16:9, this was marked Predator.)

2. What caused the destruction of the aliens' field source? One possibility has already been mentioned -- the magnetic field of the heavy current that the car battery would send through the shorted jumper cable. (Maybe the device handles high power in a balanced way, as in a jet engine, and the external field upset the balance.) Or maybe just the presence of a conducting loop was disruptive, by draining power. (One shorted turn can destroy a power transformer; and the jumper cable plus battery would be close to a short at certain frequencies.) So this does not have to be bad science fiction, in my opinion.

1. Some high-voltage distribution lines are in the foreground of the balcony scene (as M/M check the street via telescope). One prominent item is a switch for disconnecting power from the neighborhood. (It's a knife switch; the metal bar with the ring is the blade.) Interesting bit of foreshadowing.

(Another bit seemed to be the radio-controlled car. Note: according to Starstruck, on Liz thread 16:9, this was marked Predator.)

2. What caused the destruction of the aliens' field source? One possibility has already been mentioned -- the magnetic field of the heavy current that the car battery would send through the shorted jumper cable. (Maybe the device handles high power in a balanced way, as in a jet engine, and the external field upset the balance.) Or maybe just the presence of a conducting loop was disruptive, by draining power. (One shorted turn can destroy a power transformer; and the jumper cable plus battery would be close to a short at certain frequencies.) So this does not have to be bad science fiction, in my opinion.
I'm glad you brought up the power lines and the car. With LSS away this might have been glossed over. I noticed them too, they seemed to be signifcant.

I just rewatched Skin and Bones. 2 things: 1. The landscape painting behind the couch has always bothered me. The camera focuses more than once on a bush behind a rock. I just realized it's telling us that the plant-like skins are hiding behind rocks and other things.
2.When we (and Max) first see Liz, a boy on a bicycle goes past her and off the screen on the left. Can somebody GraceKel it and see if that is a cameo appearance of Nickolas?

About denying 3 times, are you implying that Kyle and Liz have two more times at it still? J/K

Interesting thoughts on Kyle as a metaphor for Peter... I thought that scene existed to put emphasis on the circle of life, which possibly relates to the fact that at the end we see Nicholas. Possibly the act of catching the fish but letting it go is symbolic of the fact that Tess didn't indeed kill them. Not that I'm suggesting Tess let Nicholas go in the same way as the fish, but it is curious that the episode begins with a scene that should end with a dead fish and ends with a scene that should end with a dead Nicholas...

--KATE

Just rewatched the episode (again).. I think somene has mentioned this, but given that we are talking about reincarnation and the so called cirlce of life I thought I'd reiterate (or iterate if noone did say it...)that I think that the symbol on the front of the bus was supposed to represent a phoenix, which is especially symbolic since that bird is born again from its ashes, and Nicholas was killed by fire and his skin did resemble ash.

ALSO, I probably wouldn't have thought anything of it, but ROStaFEHRian has ground one scene so much in my head (the one where they interegate Piercedo) that I noticed it...

When Liz and Maria are running around discovering that coffee is hot and whatnot, right before they discover the skin thingy they run past a big green blow up alien. That is at least the second time we've seen this doll this season (I feel like it's been there more times but I couldn't pick one out specifically at this time.). Now unless we are to believe that these toys are somehow all the rage in the midwest or Roswell specifically I say they must have significance... perhaps they are symbolic of the skins? So the next time we see one we'll know we're about to see a skin? I don't know, it just DOES seem weird that that blowup doll keeps showing up, and in the oddest of places!

One more, how come all the skins were basically starting to look decrepid EXCEPT for Nicholas. He had not even a flake when everyone else looked pretty damn nasty. I was also looking in the park for other reincarnated skins, but didn't see any... I'm willing to bet he's not your garden variety skin...

--KATE

4. Not sci-fi, but why does Tess enter the CD from the back?
It makes sense that Tess's power is operated against the mind of her target. She is emplanting false information and obscuring true information. Nikolas's (alien) mind may be a lot more resistant to such manpulation. (I wonder how resistant Max was, relative to other humans...)

Tess came in the back because it's less exposed; she didn't want to be seen. Obviously there's an attack in progress. Why expose herself? (Besides, it's better staging.)

2)Someone else came up with an idea that the home planet could be a future earth. That sounds good except... how do you expain the spaceship and the non-human like life forms? It could be a good sci-fi idea to play with though.

3) Tess as the "young bride" and political marriages... in the Middle Ages and before when Europe was divided into kingdoms ruled by kings, etc. "betrothals" were arranged between a newborn prince or princess and an older exsiting princs(ess) of another kingdom in order to assure a political alliance. For example, Catherine of Aragon (otherwise known as Henry the 8th 1st wife) was engaged to Henry's older brother. She came to the palace as a young teenager and there was some kind of wedding celebration but the marriage was not consumated, therefore not legal, thus allowing Henry to marry Catherine when his brother died.
Could we have a situation like this in Roswell with Tess and Max? She's always refered to as the YOUNG bride... perhaps she had just come to live with Max when they were killed?

4) The Once and Future King... this remark refers to king arthur as already stated... King Arthur put his trust in Sir Lancelot who became his most valued knight and best friend. Queen Guinivere (who married Arthur for political reasons) BETRAYED Arthur by falling in love with Lancelot. None of us want to think of Isabelle as Max's wife but what if Tess really is Vilandra?

Just some food for thought! Don't rip me apart if my theories aren't as sophisticated as yours. I'm still learning!

1. If she knew that it wasn't fully mature, why did Courtney risk putting on the new husk? Aside from a little peeling, the old one seemed to be doing OK. Even with the 50 year mark approaching, it seems like the best bet would have been to wait as long as possible before getting into the immature one.

I'm thinking it was because she was worried that the new husk would be ruined (I doubt Michael had a moisture chamber in his room... unless *that*'s where that mystery door leads) if she didn't put it on, in which case she would have absolutely no hope for survival.

Besides which, it seems a few days at least have passed between 'Harvest' and 'Wipe Out', so maybe the new husk was starting to decay or fall apart and she panicked.

quote:2. What happened to her old husk? Did it disentegrate when she removed? Did she toss it in the garbage? What?

I think it probably poofed when it was exposed to air. It would have been great to see it lying over the towel rack like a banana peel, though.

Jenalyn, love the banana peel image!
But I think the murky brown water contained the dissolved husk.

I hadn't really thought about the fishing scene, but now I'm going to watch it again more closely. I have never believed that Buddhism was introduced into the plot just as a funny side note, though. The idea of living lives over until you've fixed your mistakes and learned the right lessons applies too perfectly to Roswell. Factor in the references to history repeating itself, Run Lola Run, and mounting evidence that our podsters made some fairly large mistakes in their past lives, and I'm even more convinced that there is a deeper significance.

Also, someone posted earlier on reference to time on the show (the Granolith as time machine, the Wipeout time warp. If they decide to enphasis time manipulation as an element of the sci-fi (and I think they will), it would be ever so easy for the writers to explain some this season's continuity issues (the date of the Mommogram, Isabel's birthday). Are you listening Ron Moore?

You are very welcome. I was reading a book about Harry Potter which explains about a bunch of different myths and legends. I was skimming through them so see if any rang a bell re: Roswell and that was really the only one that jumped out at me.
if Tess=Guinivere=Vilandra then I would think Michael=Lancelot. He is Michael's TRUSTED 2nd and best friend. Just an idea!

Re: Tess as the young bride...

It is interesting that they always refer to her as the bride (which leads me to believe the marriage was never consumated)... also Michael is Isabel's betrothed, not her husband. This makes me think that the Royal Four were not married, but fairly young when they all perished. Melodious1 and I speculated that perhaps the reason for constantly referring to Tess as the young bride had even more significance... they don't call her Max's betrothed or his fiancee... the word bride signifies to me WEDDING DAY. I am wondering if they were slaughtered on their wedding day (or at least Tess...). It is curious that both pairs were engaged but not married, perhaps this was a joint wedding? Just thoughts...

--KATE

Re: Tess as the young bride...

It is interesting that they always refer to her as the bride (which leads me to believe the marriage was never consumated)... also Michael is Isabel's betrothed, not her husband. This makes me think that the Royal Four were not married, but fairly young when they all perished. Melodious1 and I speculated that perhaps the reason for constantly referring to Tess as the young bride had even more significance... they don't call her Max's betrothed or his fiancee... the word bride signifies to me WEDDING DAY. I am wondering if they were slaughtered on their wedding day (or at least Tess...). It is curious that both pairs were engaged but not married, perhaps this was a joint wedding? Just thoughts...

--KATE

Hey Kate,

I have a definition of bride that says "woman on wedding day and through the honeymoon." I also think the wedding was never consumated. If there's no consummation, there's no honeymoon, so Tess could have been a "Bride" for a very long time. King Max married her for political reasons, was maybe even forced to marry her, i.e., the only non-violent solution to a factional fight. But the loop hole in the agreement is that he only said he'd marry her, not that he'd make her his partner...
The Michael-Isabel betrothal also looks political to me. What better way of locking in the loyalty of your second in command than by making him family. StarBox and GraceKel have been working on variations of this theory over on the Liz Mythology thread (new one), and StarBox and I have been talking about it on the Signs and Symbols thread.

Now, about that green blow-up alien... Yep, I noticed it too. I have a theory Piercedo made a little Piercedo. Little Piercedo's shapeshifting skills really suck and he spends his time looking like a green blow-up alien. Now that Daddy piercedo is dead, little Piercedo is looking for his people. The only problem is that it's a little difficult not to draw attention to yourself when you're a self animated green blow-up alien. The only choice you have is to move around when no one's looking, and then flop on the ground when you see someone (think Woody from Toy Story). I might have to stop watching Roswell if this theory has any basis at all, but it would explain that pesky green blow-up alien doll...

SF

Looking forward to this evening and learning how much the "dupes" know about everything!

Jamethiel

"I shall believe."