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Roswell (2)
Topic Subject: 'crash into me' book discussion -- take 2! :-) |
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Posted 01-12-2003 02:03 PM by black widow
link to first thread here's the place to talk about the very wonderful book about our favourite alien-themed show, crash into me written by toronto-based author robyn burnett, a writer who is as charming as she is talented! we're very fortunate to have robyn posting here on R2 under the handle 'writergal' and she's been incredibly generous to take the time to interact with fans and reply to their comments and questions. here's the original press release about crash into me for those who haven't had the opportunity to pick it up yet (what are you waiting for!? ) :
quote: book specs
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Posted 01-12-2003 08:14 PM by Nemo
quote:Somewhere I read that this was written into Departure, and again that scene got cut. After that, I think we were supposed to imagine that this discussion took place over the following summer (between s2 and s3). [ 01-12-2003: Message edited Nemo ] |
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Posted 01-12-2003 11:25 PM by Writergal
I had assumed that somewhere Liz must have told Max about Future Max, only I am sorry it was cut if only because I would have loved to see that conversation. Talking of nitpicks... Yes, the whole "It has begun" was an unfortunate teaser that did not come to fruition. The one that bothered me was the whole Morgan Fairchild "Merris" and Meta-Chem deal. Wow. That was just a whole part of the plot that could have been totally chopped and I would have felt no great loss whatsoever... That, and sending Liz to Vermont. Why?? That was the part that really disappointed me, considering they could have used that time to tie up loose ends that were far more interesting. [ 01-12-2003: Message edited Writergal ] |
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Posted 01-12-2003 11:59 PM by black widow
agreed, agreed, agreed. they could have used the time to tell us where the dupes wound up, for example (that always bothered me!), amongst many other things ... |
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Posted 01-13-2003 09:44 AM by Writergal
The dupes, the skins, and don't get me started on Kivar! Here... then GONE. Where have all the plotlines gone... [ 01-14-2003: Message edited Writergal ] |
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Posted 01-14-2003 06:52 AM by Just Peachy.
Yay new Thread The Dupes, Skins, Kivar annoyed me too, first they were there and then I blinked and they were gone. |
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Posted 01-14-2003 11:33 AM by Citrus and Vine
I liked the Dupes, Skins, and Kivar. They seemed to be the second season villains, which I liked, including what Isabel termed “that ridiculous Jellyfish thing.” I thought the gandarium threat represented hitherto unknown environmental contamination. I guess I liked that it was one problem that seemed to be completely solved in the episodes. I found it satisfying that problems could be resolved, even if they were science fiction problems! Someone (sorry, I don’t know who) analyzing the episodes pointed out that the threat to the characters in Roswell in the first season were mainly government people, like the sheriff and the FBI, which included Agent Stevens, Agent Topolsky, and Agent Pierce. The person pointed out that in the second season, alien threats were introduced. I enjoyed the Skins, including Whitaker (whose portrayal I really liked), and Nicholas (whose actor did a fine job also, I thought). I thought Tess’ concentrated destruction of many Skins was a great scene. I liked the two episodes with the Dupes (loved the villainous Dupes Rath and Lonnie, and the more sympathetic Dupe Ava)! (The person went on to say the season added parental problems to the episodes.) Maybe that’s what I like about the second season. Maybe I enjoy dramatic solutions to problems. Maybe that’s what I like about Roswell—that problems get solved. |
Posted 01-14-2003 12:07 PM by Writergal
quote: Don't get me wrong, I loved the Dupes, the Skins (especially Nicholas) and Kivar. What I was referring to was my disappointment in season three that they had not resurfaced. Well, Kivar did... but I felt that he was here and gone within moments, which was disappointing. I agree that season two introduced some great elements. I was only sorry that we didn't get to follow through with them in season three. Instead, we got Merris and Clayton Wheeler. And Vermont. Lovely lovely state, but why bother sending Liz there for two episodes? [ 01-14-2003: Message edited Writergal ] |
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Posted 01-14-2003 12:17 PM by Maliejandra
I bought the book and read it in one day. I loved it. And I was really happy when I saw the Miko picture because Miko is sexy (just check my avatar) and he's an excellent actor. Plus, it meant a lot that Robyn thought he was the only guest star to deserve a picture. |
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Posted 01-14-2003 02:27 PM by Writergal
Miko Hughes was awesome. I loved his character. |
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Posted 01-14-2003 06:53 PM by *LiZaRoO*
Hey guys. I'm watching a re-run right now, Morning After. And I havent seen this season for a while now, just like everyone else. But when they showed the parents come in with pizza there was a different dad. I was very surprised I was like OMB they have a different dad. Just that I shared that. Did Robyn mention that in the book? |
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Posted 01-15-2003 09:52 AM by Writergal
I believe I mentioned that when we got the new Philip Evans. |
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Posted 01-15-2003 02:34 PM by Citrus and Vine
Hey, Just Peachy, DrEaMeR 4 MaXnLiZ, Maliejandra and Writergal! Super avatar, Maliejandra! Seeing a different dad was a jolt to me, too, DrEaMeR 4 MaXnLiZ, though from the other way around! I liked the first dad a lot, even though he was seen only briefly. The scene at the end of Morning After in which the family plays basketball and smiles and hugs is one of my favorite moments. Also, there is a picture of the first dad (along with Max and Isabel’s mom) in Max’s room in Toy House, so I really thought of him as Philip Evans. The replacement dad is cool too.
quote: Awk, Writergal! Some of my favorite scenes! When there were threads for favorite and least favorite episodes, it impressed me that one person’s favorite is another person’s least favorite episode! The Clayton and Meris Wheeler storyline appeals to me. I like the ideas. I enjoy manipulative Meris being done in by her own attempt to control her husband! I also like the stories that interweave the Meris and Clayton storyline. Jesse learns Isabel is an alien in a dramatic way. Jesse, Kyle, Jim Valenti, and Michael all work together to save Isabel. I think that’s one of the best parts of Roswell—people working together. I think the Vermont choice is, for me, a good choice. It provides a place for Maria and Liz to join up, while they are both away from Roswell. In Vermont, the snow, the campus, and the library are all places that resonate with me. In other episodes, the settings, like the sunny locations in California with the despicable Kal Langley, work well for me, too. Actually, I love seeing different locations wherever they are! I’m looking forward to reading about the titles of Roswell episodes and music references in your book, Crash Into Me. What a great book title you chose, Writergal! [ 01-15-2003: Message edited Citrus and Vine ] |
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Posted 01-15-2003 10:15 PM by Nemo
One thing the Vermont trip did was to explore the idea that when you try to run away from your problems, sometimes they come along with you. |
Posted 01-16-2003 12:03 AM by Writergal
quote: I agree, I really liked the Isabel shooting situation - I didn't mind Chant Down Babylon from that respect. I just... didn't really get into either Meris or Clayton because it felt too soap-opera-ish and less threatening. While I agree, Nemo, that the idea of Vermont (can't run away from your problems) was interesting, it wasn't well executed in my mind. It felt disjointed having Maria in New York, Liz in Vermont, the rest back in Roswell... and the whole Maria visiting Liz bit... there were a lot of issues I had with the school. The lack of rules for example, considering it was a very strict school. That segment didn't feel as clean as some of the others. However, I agree... it is very interesting to see how one person's favorite episode is another person's least favorite. |
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Posted 01-16-2003 12:51 AM by Nemo
I agree there were plausibility issues about the Vermont school. I was mostly overlooking that because, by this point in the series, verisimilitude had already taken such a hit that (to me) a few more dents seemed scarcely noticeable. (Also, I had come to watch Roswell by way of The X-files, where plausibility got sacrificed to an even greater degree; maybe I had just grown accustomed to this. Apparently what the writers cared about most was showing ordinary people trying to cope with extreme circumstances.) [ 01-16-2003: Message edited Nemo ] |
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Posted 01-16-2003 01:59 AM by Citrus and Vine
Writergal, I get what you're saying, that you had issues with the school (Winnamen Academy in Vermont), as it was a strict school. The idea of strict rules at the Academy worked for me, because of the sneaking around that was needed for Liz and Eileen to accomplish what would otherwise be against the rules. To me, kids in places with strict rules quickly learn the ins and outs of getting around them. Kids usually know when they'll be checked on, and they know the staff cannot monitor them all the time. Eileen, for example, confidently breaks what is an obviously enforced No Smoking rule. (As soon as Dean Hackett appears unexpectedly at the door, Eileen frantically hastens to conceal her smoking.) Liquor is hidden in a largely unused attic, and Liz and Eileen go there at an evening hour, with little danger of being discovered. I also liked that Maria showed up at the Academy. To me, friends take advantage of opportunities to see each other. Since Maria ditched the singing opportunity in New York, I thought it was reasonable for her to visit Liz in Vermont, while she was, relatively speaking, in the neighborhood (as compared to the greater distance Maria would have needed to travel to see Liz from Roswell, at a later date.) I thought the visit from Maria united the storylines between the actions in Roswell and the actions in Vermont. Maria phoned Michael about Max's death. She learned about Isabel being shot, thus forming a smooth transition between the two storylines. I thought Meris was a callous murderer. Her power structure protected her from the consequences of her acts. I found Meris to be a believable threat—the kind of threat that is worse for not being immediately suspected. Nicholas, I thought, was like that, too. He at first appeared to be a teen that lost his sister, but later was revealed to have murderous intents. Nicholas had killed Antarian Rath fifty or so years ago, while Meris is responsible for Monk's murder and Valenti's almost fatal shooting. Further, Meris is responsible for Max's death, so for me, I found her threat to be very immediate and real. I was also creeped out by the knowledge that Meris (and maybe Clayton—difficult to tell how much he might have had a hand in things) hired Michael just to investigate him. The idea of her collecting samples from Michael, I thought, triggers fears of corporate snooping and misuse of power. So as villains, I think Meris and Clayton Wheeler are convincing choices. I just wanted to defend a bit some of the reasons I enjoyed the stories so much. I’m happy to meet another person who “liked the Isabel shooting situation”! quote: Nemo! Your words mean so much to me! You say things just the way I would like to say them, if I could even think of them! Your words say what was floating in my head, trying desperately to be connected. Thank you!!! [ 01-16-2003: Message edited Citrus and Vine ] |
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Posted 01-16-2003 02:12 AM by Nemo
Citrus and Vine, thanks for the compliment. Finding ways to tell us "what we already knew, but didn't know we knew" is what the poets and other writers do for us every day. I'm lucky if I can manage it once in awhile. |
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Posted 01-16-2003 06:43 AM by Just Peachy.
Hi everyone Another thing that I liked was what Robyn wrote about Blind Date, I love that episode, and I thought it was one of the best .... Roswell is good when they put unlikely people together eg, Max and Kyle just to see how the react together ... I still wish that they did that with Sean as he was a great character, and he to took a liking to Liz, and saw her in a different light to what Max did. |
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Posted 01-16-2003 12:02 PM by Writergal
I thought your explanation was great, Citrus and Vine. I agree, the concept of the Academy being strict worked as a good contrast to Liz's rebellious behaviour. It was a necessary lesson for her character arc - she was no longer the "good" girl that she had been before. As Nemo said, running away would not solve the problem. I think where I found it tough to swallow was the fact that... there really was nothing strict about this "strict" school. Liz was always in the attic, never in any sort of class and there was no one else there except for Eileen and Liz it seemed. Yes, I know that there was the long weekend bit, but it still felt a bit strange. As for Maria visiting her, that was cool. But having her stay in the attic? It just felt... empty. As Nemo said, at that point, consistencies weren't a major issue. I think the Meris storyline could have worked better for me if it hadn't been Morgan Fairchild. She is fine as an actress, but there were too many past associations... Falcon Crest, etc. I couldn't really get past that. |
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Posted 01-17-2003 02:13 AM by Citrus and Vine
I know just what you mean about seeing actors in new roles, when you have a residual memory of previous roles! I haven't seen Falcon Crest or other things she's done, just Roswell and now Old Navy commercials! How's the ghost writing for the pyschic going?
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Posted 01-17-2003 11:42 AM by Writergal
It's coming along, thanks for asking! |
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Posted 01-17-2003 02:09 PM by Citrus and Vine
Writers amaze me, as writing seems incredibly difficult. When I think of writing, I laugh, recalling the scene in Topolsky’s Guidance Counselor’s office. (A student reads her testing results. She learns with surprise and happiness that she profiles for a writer. She then exclaims, “A writer?! Cool! How hard can that be?”) I’ve heard some people say that from a very young age, they knew they wanted to be a writer. I was wondering, what brought you to writing? |
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Posted 01-17-2003 04:24 PM by Writergal
I like this story When I was in high school, I did a lot of theatre as well. I had two choices: east coast for theatre, or west coast for writing. The east coast lost because at the time they were thinking of phasing out their theatre program and I got into the creative writing program at UBC. While I was in university, back home for vacation on Christmas, I ran into my grade one teacher at the bank. She asked me what I was up to, and I told her. "I always knew you would be a writer," she said. "Really?" I asked. "How?" "Because as a little girl that was all you did - write stories. All the time!" When I thought back I realized that she was right. So, I guess it was in the stars... destiny and all that! |
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Posted 01-17-2003 11:46 PM by shapeshifter
Writergal, cool story. My oldest daughter was like that, and now she writes for a newspaper in California. My father's brother, cousin, and niece are also news journalists (none from the same nuclear family unit). Do you have any writing relatives? |
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Posted 01-18-2003 12:16 AM by Writergal
My mother just wrote a play and I know my father has a novel in him. My brother is an actor. I do believe there are some other scribes on the family tree, but I'm not sure. |
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Posted 01-18-2003 05:04 PM by *kiwi@wk*
can someone tell me were i can purchase the crash into me book from??? |
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Posted 01-18-2003 06:29 PM by Nemo
I called my local bookstore (Barnes and Noble), and they had it in stock. The book can also be ordered online through crashdown.com (there's a link to Amazon.com). [ 01-18-2003: Message edited Nemo ] |
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Posted 01-19-2003 12:12 AM by shapeshifter
Revisiting the advent of the name of the home planet as Antar-- I found in some cut scenes that it was supposed to appear in Max In the City: quote: |
Posted 01-19-2003 05:01 AM by *kiwi@wk*
quote: thanks so much...present for you, hope you like Max, sorry if you don't IMAGE: www.danbbs.dk/~smaalipz/roswell/roswellpix/jason/jason24.jpg |
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Posted 01-19-2003 12:34 PM by Shilohaura
I really think that some of the best scenes landed on the cutting room floor - which also may have been SOME of the continuity problem. I'm not sure TPTB ever really understood what endeared this show to the audience or caused the extreme passion in the fans. Therefore, scenes that were HIGHLY important to us - if only for the viewing pleasure of actually seeing it occur before our eyes - seemed to be expendable to TPTB. Example: The M/L jeep scene in Departure, Liz telling Max about FM......They cut it out of Departure, but still could have used it as a flashback in the beginning of S1. They didn't. Their reasoning? People would just assume that M/L had already discussed this through the summer months prior to the start of the new season. They seemingly had no idea how important it was for those of us caught up in this drama to actually see & hear that occur! I truly don't think that the editing in those situations was done purposefully to spite fans. I believe they truly never understood! I'm hoping that, when & if the DVD's are ever released, there is an entire DVD of nothing but bloopers, outtakes, deleted scenes and BTS interviews and happenings! THAT would really be what would ensure that they would make their music royalties back! By the way, Robin - I loaned your book to a friend who couldn't afford to get one right now. She's studying it very carefully....page by page! And loving every minute of it! Hope you don't mind....She's already saving up for a copy of her own! |
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Posted 01-20-2003 10:49 AM by Nemo
kiwi@wk, thanks for the present. (In some ways, I always did envy Max.) |
Posted 01-20-2003 11:50 AM by Writergal
quote: Thanks for the compliment! Page by page, eh? Hope she likes it |
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Posted 01-22-2003 11:58 AM by dreamgal
Hey! I LOVE LOVE LOVE your book Robin! Johnneh gave to me for Christmas and I haven't stopped reading it! I love Katherine Heigl so it was very cool reading about her. Who knew she was in King of the Hill with Amber Benson? I love the episode guide you have because it tells of your opinion of the episode rather than a two story of what the episode was about and we have all the seen each and every episode a million times I think we would know what it's about! Anyway, it's a great book and I can't wait to go home so I can read it some more! |
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Posted 01-23-2003 06:30 PM by Writergal
Glad you're enjoying it! Doing the episode guide was the hardest part, but very rewarding. |
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Posted 01-25-2003 10:38 AM by Citrus and Vine
Thank you, Robyn Burnett for your book, Crash Into Me! It's so cool to learn so many things about Roswell! Thanks, again! |
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Posted 01-25-2003 04:16 PM by Citrus and Vine
Hi again! Earlier you said that you welcomed discussion of your book. I’d like to discuss one of the Double Takes you mention in Morning After. On page 148, the book, under Double Take, says, “Somehow Kathleen Topolsky knows Liz’s full name even though she never gets past Michael Gurerin’s name during roll-call.” To me, that fact, along with noticing that substitute teacher Toposky has been carrying Michael’s school records folder, explain why Liz is right to be suspicious of Topolsky. Topolsky came to West Roswell High to get information about the blood and bullet hole in Liz’s uniform. Topolsky was really working for the FBI. Topolsky began at the school in the guise of a substitute teacher. Topolsky did not want anyone to know she was secretly investigating Liz, Max, and Michael, following the shooting incident at the café. Because Topolsky did not read off Liz’s name during attendance, Topolsky (as a substitute teacher) would be unlikely to know Liz’s first and last name. (During class, students usually go by a single name, instead of two names and Topolsky had not read off a name to associate with Liz herself.) Yet, as Topolsky picks up the scattered folders and Liz helps her, Topolsky identifies Liz, saying, “Parker, Liz”. We know Topolsky did not read off Liz’s name out loud while taking attendance. Topolsky stopped taking attendance after reading, “Guerin. Michael Guerin?” Topolsky did not read off Liz’s name. Topolsky quickly realizes that she has blundered, and so she says, “I have a photographic memory.” Saying that might make Liz think that when Topolsky looked at the roll book, Topolsky gleaned the two names, Liz, and Parker. Topolsky is attempting to divert suspicion away from the fact that Topolsky knows and can identify Liz by both first and last names. The fact that Topolsky makes that excuse, though, only serves to heightened Liz’s suspicions later. During class (after Liz bumped into Topolsky and after Liz warned Michael) Topolsky incorrectly says about a triangle, “And we know that the sum of A, B, and C equals 360 degrees”. All triangles actually have 180 degrees. A person with a photographic memory would be unlikely to make such a mistake. So I think the fact that Topolsky stops taking attendance after asking Max for information about Michael, (and doesn’t read Liz Parker’s name) heightens Liz’s suspicions, when Liz bumps into Topolsky and Topolsky correctly identifies Liz by Liz’s first and last names. I think the scene, including Topolsky’s inadvertent identification of Liz, emphasizes why Liz goes to Michael to warn him about Toposky. To me the scenes in Morning After show that Topolsky has more than a passing interest in Liz, Max, and Michael, and that Liz is right to be suspicious. Thinking about the Crash Into Me’s Double Take really deepens my appreciation for all the care given in making Roswell!
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Posted 01-26-2003 07:16 PM by Writergal
Wow. Amazing detail there! I'm impressed with the analysis! Good point! |
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Posted 01-27-2003 10:09 AM by Citrus and Vine
Hi Robyn (Writergal)!! One of the well-liked features mentioned on the previous thread about your book Crash Into Me is the Irks section included in the Episode Guide on each episode. I think many people like picking out inconsistencies. They can provide laughter and enjoyment. “Irks” is an especially appropriate word to describe an individual reaction to a particular point. I think most of us have certain irks in life. I think irks and nitpicking can provide useful information to ourselves about what we think and why we think it. One person’s irk can be another person’s cherished moment. Take for example the Irk mentioned on page 225 on the summary of A Roswell Christmas Carol.
quote: First, let’s examine snow in New Mexico. New Mexico has 11 ski resorts. Snow falls in the state of New Mexico. Next, let’s examine snow in Roswell. Roswell has an annual snowfall of 11.7 inches (averaged over 51 years, through the year 2001). The episode A Roswell Christmas Carol aired December 18, 2000. That is a week before Christmas actually arrived. The show was written, filmed, and aired before Christmas. At the end of the episode, snow falls. According to Weatherunderground, on December 25, 2000, snow fell at various times during the evening. I think the writers are accurate in depicting falling snow at Christmas time in the episode A Roswell Christmas Carol. On page 271 of Crash Into Me, the author reports that the episode Samuel Rising aired “December 18, 2002”. However, Roswell’s last original episode aired in May 2002, and there were no episodes aired in December 2002. In Crash Into Me Irks on Samuel Rising, the author says quote: Samuel Rising aired December 18, 2001. Like A Roswell Christmas Carol, the episode was written, filmed, and aired before Christmas, the setting of the show. According to Weatherunderground, it snowed during the afternoon of December 24, 2001. Roswell, New Mexico has an annual snowfall average of 11.7 inches. Sometimes it snows at Christmas time. In the two Christmas episodes that depicted snow falling, snow actually fell during Christmas time those years. The writers wrote before the events transpired in each episode, and I think they are fine forecasters!
[ 01-27-2003: Message edited Citrus and Vine ] |
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Posted 01-27-2003 02:09 PM by shapeshifter
Wow, Citrus & Vine, thanks for clearing that (the snow) up, once and for all. So, then, what about the episode Heat Wave (which recently reaired on SciFi)? Having lived in a climate similar to Roswell's for 20 of the past 26 years, I wondered more about a 100+ degree day in December than the snow. I remember during the drought that we did have an 80 degree day in October once, but nothing like described in Heat Wave: "LIZ: Maria, it's 105 degrees outside, and you're wearing a turtleneck." And according to weather.com, Roswell's record high for December was (similarly to Siskiyou County, California) 81 in 1981, |
Posted 01-27-2003 06:14 PM by Writergal
quote: Hey Citrus and Vine, ever thought about becoming an editor?? It's good that you pointed out the misconception about Roswell and snow. Thank you. I did wonder about it, in fact, but it was one of those details I missed in the insanity of getting the book done in time. I have to admit, I've been caught. Being a Canadian, I've had to constantly deal with comments about snow constantly falling throughout the year, and other such things. Fact is, Toronto is on the same line of latitude as the south of France... so, while we do get snow (like this Christmas, yay!) we don't always get it. And our summers are brutal here. So, being on the other end of the misconception, I should have known better than to assume! Oh! And I had another thought about your comments regarding Topolsky's suspicious behaviour. My issue with it (while it was indeed incentive for Liz to grow suspicious) was the sheer incompetence of it. In fact, the sheer incompetence of the FBI, period. Okay, so we should be suspicious, but to be so obvious about it? I liked the way they handled Pierce (even though at this point we'd gotten the formula "new arrival in town = bad guy"). I just felt she could have been more insidious. Yes, we still wondered after we discovered she was a guidence counsellor, but it still felt a little too... obvious. That said, I'm loving your feedback! |
Posted 01-27-2003 07:00 PM by black widow
quote: but boy-oh-boy, are we ever earning the stereotype of the Arctic North this year, huh? it was -31 degrees (!!!) this morning with the windchill! (no wonder it's taking me so long to get over this bloody flu! ) how we can go from *this* to 35+ degrees (100+ F) in the summer never ceases to amaze me ... anyway, back on topic! i agree with you there, robyn -- i always thought topolsky looked like the 'dumb blonde of the FBI' the way she so blatantly goofed with things. i mean, the first time i saw the end of blood brother and saw how alex easily hacked into an FBI file on topolsky's laptop, i thought, "my god, she's a moron to leave that out there like that for anyone to see! how incompetent!" but then on second thought, i realised it was just a bit of convolution in the plot in order to move things along and have her secret "discovered." so yeah ... a bit obvious. but in the grand scheme of faux pas to come over the next two years, it was totally forgivable! ps: hey robyn -- maybe you can answer a question i asked over on the 'roswell names' thread. someone asked what max's middle name was, and someone else replied 'phillip.' i'm not disputing this, but during your meticulous rewatching of the episodes, do you remember where we heard it? i've run over every possibility (his driver's licence, graduation diploma, etc) and come up empty-handed. hmmm. [ 01-27-2003: Message edited black widow ] |
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Posted 01-27-2003 08:29 PM by Writergal
I noticed that thread, and to tell you the truth, I don't have any recollection of a middle name ever coming up. Unless it was a "witnessed" middle name, but I didn't see it personally. Obviously, I wasn't that meticulous, or I would have noticed that I was wrong about my double take for Summer of '47! What can I say? I try. I'm sorry to hear that you have the flu! I'll keep an eye out on that middle name - I've got six weeks of being home-bound for the most part coming up, so I'll be watching Roswell again, without a doubt! |
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Posted 01-27-2003 09:13 PM by black widow
i've had it (the flu) for going on 2 weeks now ... blah. i owe you an e-mail -- it's coming! and i'll be very curious to hear if/where you find max's elusive middle name! |
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Posted 01-28-2003 10:36 AM by Citrus and Vine
Hi shapeshifter! You're welcome! quote: The episode opens with a voice on the radio saying, "It's 7:36, and it's another white hot day in this bizarre December heat wave." So to me, the premise of the episode is that a bizarre (unusual, out of the ordinary, extraordinary) weather condition is occurring. "Pushing 90 [degrees]" and "it's 105 degrees outside" would be bizarre weather for Roswell, New Mexico in December. Your report that the high for December is 81 degrees Fahrenheit would go along with emphasizing that such a high temperature has not occurred in the recorded history of Roswell, and would therefore be considered a bizarre event. To me, the story of Roswell is a "what if" story. Roswell is not a documentary. Although it is a story told about things that happen in real time in a real place, it is a fictional story about fictional people and fictional events. I think sometimes that may be a bit confusing. I think the characters and stories are so compelling that sometimes it may seem like the details of the story should match reality. I have noticed that sometimes people fault Roswell for presenting stories that are out of the ordinary. Personally, I like the stories very much! Thank you for the information on Roswell's recorded high temperature in December!
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Posted 01-28-2003 08:01 PM by Writergal
quote: You know what, I totally agree with your observation. You are totally right... many of us get caught up in the "reality" aspects while forgetting that it is a fantasy after all... |
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Posted 01-29-2003 08:07 PM by Citrus and Vine
Hey Writergal! Thanks for the comments! I’m happy to hear you are from Canada! I’ve heard so many wonderful things about Canada from friends and relatives who have traveled there! Your description of Toronto’s location compared to the south of France really puts things into perspective. I’m glad you got some snow this year. Many places in the US have record amounts this winter, while other places are lacking their usual amounts. Hope your flu ends soon, black widow!
[ 01-29-2003: Message edited Citrus and Vine ] |
Posted 01-30-2003 12:42 AM by shapeshifter
quote:True, and I agree with WriterGal's reaction to this point too. Still, it's interesting that the fans were able to overlook a heatwave that exceeded the record high by over 20 degrees but jumped to some faulty conclusions over a little snow. By the time of the snow, CHAD hunting had become a great sport among fans, and many complained bitterly about that snow. |
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Posted 01-30-2003 12:50 AM by Citrus and Vine
Here are some questions asked about Blood Brother.
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quote: I think DNA examination is a possible reason the agents want the blood sample. Max looks human. The agents think Max might be an alien. Examining the blood might give the agents information indicating some difference from human DNA. The agents picked up additional material from Max’s hospital bed and surrounding area. Although the agents might find hair from Max, there would be no DNA unless a hair follicle was attached. The hair follicle is needed to test for DNA. The best way to get DNA from hair is to pull a hair out forcibly from the scalp, by its root. Hair that falls out naturally usually lacks the hair follicle and DNA. Hair found in and around Max’s hospital bed probably would not be useful for testing DNA. Even if the agents found hair with hair follicles, the hairs would have to be attributed to Max. (Hairs do not come with labels, until someone labels them.) As you can see in the scene, the agents gathering evidence have hair on their heads and arms. We can probably guess that other people, such as nurses, doctors, technicians, and housekeeping service people, as well as Isabel, Michael, Maria, Liz, and Max’s mom may have left hairs on or around Max’s hospital bed. Even though the agents gather things, it is unlikely that what they gather will be useful in any way.
quote: The drug Coumadin, for example, causes nose bleed, “a nose bleed that can not be stopped with pressure within ten minutes”. Other drugs cause nose bleeds, also. The scene in which Topolsky slips Alex the drug demostrates the disregard Topolsky has for Alex. Topolsky does not care about Alex's health. She does not ask Alex for a blood sample. I think Topolsky is a ruthless individual.
quote: Although police investigate some car accidents, they would be unlikely to investigate the accident Max and Liz were involved in. No one was killed, and no other vehicle was involved. In car accidents, if there is damage to the vehicle, people in the United States inform their insurance companies, who then make an assessment of the damages to the vehicle. A sheriff would not be needed in a car accident like the one Liz and Max were involved in.
quote: Liz says to Alex, “I volunteered here [at the hospital] last summer. I saw them do this [take blood samples] a thousand times.” So it seems likely that Liz might be familiar with procedures and where materials are kept. Identical labels might be available for adding Max’s name and information.
[ 01-30-2003: Message edited Citrus and Vine ] |
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Posted 01-30-2003 06:18 PM by Writergal
Okay, Citrus and Vine, I can agree with you on the DNA sample of hair vs. blood. True enough, it would be a challenge to use the hair. I concede to that point. I will also concede on the evil Topolsky and her pharmaceuticals. The car accident included a hospital trip. The cops would know that because the ambulance was called. Therefore, the Sheriff would have heard the name and because he was on the hunt for clues at the time... As for the hospital sticker, if you had said that Michael used his powers to create it, I would have conceded. Liz working at the hospital still makes it far-fetched in my view. Tell me, are you a reporter or researcher in your daily life? It's amazing! |
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Posted 01-30-2003 09:44 PM by shapeshifter
It just occurred to me while reading Citrus & Vine's post that later, in the White Room episode, we learn that Max's blood is the only distinctly alien feature he has. So this would explain why they would want blood instead of hair. Pierce does seem surprised that only Max's blood is alien, but perhaps it's just the mock surprise of the evil inquisitor. The real CHAD here would be that Max's inner cheek (mouth, that is ) cells were also observed by Liz to be alien in on of the first episodes. Citrus & Vine, Blind Date aired today, and when Liz is giving Max's and her location to the Taxi company, she says they're on Citrus. Is that where your name comes from? |
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Posted 01-31-2003 02:02 PM by Citrus and Vine
Hi shapeshifter quote: Actually, Pierce says to Max, “You know, there’s something very strange about your X-rays… something that doesn’t make sense. They’re completely human: your bone structure, your organs, circulatory and pulmonary systems. Everything human. But. Here’s where things get really strange. These are your blood cells. Completely not human.” So I think Pierce is saying that Max externally and structurally appears human. On a cellular level, however, Max is different from humans. Perhaps what is confusing to some is that the microscope pictures of Max’s cheek cells and Max’s blood cells are similar. Human blood cells, on the other hand, are different in appearance from human cheek cells. I think the point the two similar slides illustrate is that Max’s cells are different from human cells. Perhaps if one picture had been shown for Max’s cheek cells, and another type of picture shown for Max’s blood cells, it might be confusing to some viewers who are unaware that different cells in the human body have a different appearance. I think the similar pictures of Max’s different cells (different cell types) emphasize that Max’s cells are different from human cells. I think the pictures illustrate that Max’s cells are unlike human cells, and that is why Liz and Pierce know Max is different. I think the similar pictures illustrate that Max’s cellular differences from humans are apparent under a microscope in both cheek cells and blood cells. To the best of my knowledge, human-aliens do not exist. Any representation of human-alien cells is imaginary. Perhaps, it is also possible to image that some human-alien cells might be identical in appearance to other types of human-alien cells. Human-alien cells, both check cells and blood cells, might then look the same under a microscope. The similar pictures might illustrate that concept. Or maybe at a higher microscopic magnification, human-alien cheek cells might become distinguishable from human-alien blood cells. We don’t know what human-alien cells would really look like. The microscopic slides pictured of Max’s cheek cells and Max’s blood cells are not slides of real cheek cells or real blood cells. To me, the pictures are representations that Max’s cells look different under the microscope from human cells. I think the similar pictures of Max’s cells emphasize that Max is different from humans.
quote: I saw parts of Blind Date last night, too! Great episode and so funny!!! And yes, the street name Citrus prompted my choice of posting name. Tonight, Independence Day is scheduled to air! It’s another of my favorite episodes!!!
[ 01-31-2003: Message edited Citrus and Vine ] |
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Posted 01-31-2003 02:55 PM by Citrus and Vine
Hey writergal
quote:
quote: Let’s consider your suggestion that the Sheriff be included in the episode Blood Brother, “because he [the Sheriff] was on the hunt for clues at the time”. If the Sheriff went to the hospital or elsewhere to hunt for clues, then evidently the Sheriff was unsuccessful in uncovering any further clues. Because Valenti gained no useful information, Valenti’s efforts, if any, were not included in the episode. Sheriff Valenti is not included in the episode Blood Brother, because the story is about characters other than Valenti.
quote: Some hospitals have programs for student volunteers. For example, at Claremore Regional Hospital teenagers can begin volunteering when they are 14 years old. The student volunteer program at East Tennessee Children’s Hospital, which began 30 years ago, also accepts volunteers beginning at age 14. Cincinnati Children’s Hospital Medical Center welcomes volunteers who are 15 years old June 1 and are entering the tenth grade. Liz said she volunteered at the hospital last summer. Some hospitals have summer programs for their volunteers, such as East Tennessee Children’s Hospital and Cincinnati Children’s Hospital Medical Center. Liz is a student who is interested in becoming a molecular biologist. Colleges want well-rounded students with extracurricular activities. Volunteering at the hospital last summer gives Liz life experience as well as experience to include on her college application in the future.
[ 01-31-2003: Message edited Citrus and Vine ] |
Posted 01-31-2003 05:47 PM by Writergal
quote: Hey Citrus Agreed - it makes sense that Liz would be in the hospital as a volunteer. I have no doubt of that concept. My doubt comes with the fact that they came up with the label so fast - I'm guessing that you are suggesting that because of Liz's experience as a volunteer, she was somehow able to access the computer system and print out another label? That said, while it may work, it still felt a little far-fetched. As for Valenti and the whole Blood Brother's episode... I agree that the episode was not about him. I do feel, however, that because the writers had depicted his character as driven when it came to the teens, it was surprising that he didn't even have a moment - even if it was showing him finding nothing. |
Posted 01-31-2003 07:51 PM by Citrus and Vine
quote: I answered your previous statement the way I did, because to me, your statement seemed to indicate that you doubted Liz worked in the hospital as a volunteer. You said quote: As you can see, the statement might seem to someone that you were unfamiliar with students working as volunteers at hospitals in a summer program. So I apologize for over answering your concern.
quote: You may recall that Isabel was with Liz as well. So Liz may have been able to show Isabel what a label looked like, and then Isabel might have supplied Max's name and information. Or perhaps since Liz worked in the hospital last summer, Liz may have been familiar with printing out a label herself. Let’s say though, that Liz did not work in the hospital the previous summer and was unfamiliar with the hospital. Then, they might have decided to simply take Max’s vial, rather than replace it with Alex’s blood. It would have been a different story. So, in my opinion, it is important to know that Liz is familiar with the hospital (she volunteered there last summer). To me, the details of how the label for the vial was produced are less interesting. To me, it is sufficient to know that labels for blood vials can be made. To me, it is sufficient to know that Liz might have made the label or Michael might have made the label or Isabel might have made the label. As you know, how the label was produced is not shown in the episode. Since each episode is only about 44 minutes in length, there is a limit to how much information can be included in each episode. Understandably, while you and others may wish to see what the Sheriff was doing and/or how the label was produced, doing so would have meant cutting other scenes. To me, the fact that so many people would like to see much more of their favorite characters shows how strong the individual characterizations are! And thinking about the scene makes me realize how much information is conveyed by the characters in just a few short sentences of conversation!
[ 01-31-2003: Message edited Citrus and Vine ] |
Posted 01-31-2003 11:07 PM by Writergal
quote: Agreed! One of the points I made when introducing the episode guide was that the opinions expressed were my own, and debatable (which is great! Thank yo for debating! ) Regarding the hospital labels... yes, there are many theories on how it came to pass, all of which are viable... and I recognize that suspension of disbelief is required as I also recognize that there is not enough time to air an episode that touches on all the details... that said, when I wrote the IRKS, my issues included things that stood out for me in the episode which didn't follow along with the flow as well as they could have. Not to say the writers never tried, or it was never filmed... more so, it was something I noticed that stood out in a "hmmm" way, or a "HMMM... not so cool" way. That said, I agree with your thoughts on the label, but at the same time, for me, personally, it was one of those "Hmm" moments to start. Later, when I saw Michael transfer the bills into plane tickets in LLV, I thought, "Hey... so that's how they did it!" That said... at the time, I wondered! Long explanation for a short answer, eh? |
Posted 02-01-2003 01:35 AM by Citrus and Vine
quote: I think so, too! One of the problems I think with leaving messages is that some things may get distorted or misunderstood. If we were talking in person, we could probably readily understand each other’s thinking. I know when I reply it may seem like I'm debating, but for me, it is a wish to be able to express what I am thinking. I respect each person's personal experiences and realize that we all have reasons for our interpretations and impressions of a television show. Roswell is one show that I actually watch in more than just bits and pieces. Originally, I thought perhaps I liked the show simply because I took the time to watch an episode from start to finish (unlike my usual habit). I enjoyed the show very much and looked forward to each new episode! When I tried watching other shows through an entire episode, I found I couldn’t do it. Other shows did not interest me enough to spend the time watching them. I wondered why. I wondered what made Roswell so special for me. Because I have enjoyed Roswell so much, I like thinking about it. I have learned so much from other people who have posted! It is meaningful to me to consider how other people see the show and try to figure out why a "hmm" moment for some people is a special moment for other people. The “hmm” moments of some also calls to attention details of the show I had never considered. For me, such moments can be enlightening. I feel this evening’s show Independence Day highlighted a very meaningful topic—foster care problems in the United States. It is one of my favorite shows in Roswell. I well remember the glowing responses on Fan Forum to the show when it originally aired. People who faced similar problems to Michael’s were especially touched to have a television show tell their own story so eloquently. Thank you for your time!
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Posted 02-01-2003 01:40 AM by KabukiBabe
I saw a copy of this book at Chapters today. It's a paperback cover and the price is reasonable at 19.95 Canadian dollars. But I skip buying it. I skim on the book and Sorry but I'm not interested in it. In my opinion the writer never done a good research about what draws people in the show and what storyline was what interest most of the fans or why the hoopla to save this shows What is the reason why this show has been save time and time again with the flowing of Tabasco sauce. bombardment of letters and why the Fans just gave up on it. In other words What is the magic and the appeal of the show It has some information regarding the cast (especially some cast member that most fans does'nt care about) and some crew about the show but other than that this book is like a shallow summary of the show. If I'm a producer and I am planning to make TV show this is definetely NOT the book I'm buying for refference on how to keep my show on the air. In my opinion this is a shallow fluff of the show. |
Posted 02-01-2003 10:12 AM by Writergal
quote: Absolutely! Agreed - it's hard to fully communicate with posts, but don't get me wrong... I'm loving the thoughts you're providing on the points! It's great to be able to look at different elements to an issue, and you've brought up some points I had not considered, so thank you! I also agree that the show managed to bring some situations into the light, such as foster care and emancipated minors. I agree completely on that one. So, I'd love to hear more thoughts, Citrus... any time! |
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Posted 02-01-2003 02:38 PM by shapeshifter
First, OT, I believe this is the scripture the President just read in his condolences to the families of the 7 astronauts lost this morning:
Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look at the earth beneath; for the heavens will vanish like smoke, the earth will wear out like a garment, and those who live on it will die like gnats; in like manner my salvation will be forever, and my deliverance will never be ended ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Back on topic:
Baby it's no mystery You're bringing out the best in me And though I've been in love before I've never had the kind of love that made me feel secure I never thought that give and take Mentality was right for me, hmm You made me open up and see That it's for real And there's no other place I'd rather be
Well, Romeo and Juliet Samson and Delilah Baby you can bet They were burnin' with desire If I say split If you say split Then you know that I'd be lyin' I know that you'd be lyin' 'Cause when we kiss Ooh Fire (ooh, yeah) Fire Fire (mm-mm-mm) Fire Oh when we kiss I'm on fire Your tenderness Gives me desire I can't resist (I can't resist) Your tender lips (your tender lips) When we kiss (When we kiss, oh, baby) ooh Fire (oh, oh) Fire [ 02-01-2003: Message edited shapeshifter ] |
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Posted 02-01-2003 02:49 PM by Old_candyfan
One of the biggest questions to me on the whole series is how in the world someone like Hank ever got approved as a foster parent. I know that bad foster parents happen and there is abuse but in case I can't see him being able to hide what he was really like from a case worker. Didn't anyone ever check up on him? |
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Posted 02-01-2003 06:10 PM by shapeshifter
From what I hear on the news (notably Florida this summer and in Chicago this winter), plus some personal accounts, such foster parents, while perhaps not in the majority, are not that unusual either. Also, Hank was an alcoholic. Perhaps 6 years earlier he gained custody of Michael when he was married and not so much under the influence. I think the writers put the "just keeps me around for the monthly check" in both Pilot and ID based on personal experiences of classmates and acquaintances. |
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Posted 02-01-2003 09:15 PM by Citrus and Vine
Hi lakambini, Writergal, Old_candyfan, and shapeshifter! Excellent answer, shapeshifter, about Hank being a foster parent! I’d like to add some more to what you have said. There are many wonderful foster parents. It is very important to recognize the need for many more qualified foster parents willing to give the love, time, and work necessary to raise a child. Without more foster parents and/or intervention in troubled families, the situation so well illustrated by Michael's relationship with his foster dad will continue. The lack of available foster parents is one of the reasons Michael might be left in an unsuitable foster home, even if the authorities were aware of problems. Here is a site that discusses the lack of foster homes in Massachusetts. Here is a site that discusses the lack of foster homes in Seattle. In Minneapolis, Minnesota, there are billboards, ads on outdoor bus benches and bus shelters, as well as ads on the backs of grocery store receipts asking for people to become foster parents. Single individuals can become foster parents.
Again, there are many fine and wonderful foster parents in the United States. They provide homes for children whose parents are unable to care for them for a period of time. We may wonder how Hank first became a foster parent to Michael. As shapehifter suggests, perhaps Hank was married at first. Others have suggested that Hank may have changed over the years. Single people can be foster parents, so Hank’s being single would not be a barrier to being a foster parent. We know Hank drank on occasion. We don’t know when Hank started drinking, or how often he drank. The fact that a foster parent drinks on occasion or gets drunk on occasion would not automatically bar them from remaining a foster parent. We know Jesse’s reporter friend Eric interviewed a former social worker. She was aware that Hank drank. (She made a motion with her hand to indicate drinking.) We don’t know when she became aware of that fact, or how long she knew it. We know that Hank had hit Michael “a couple of times” before. We don’t know when Hank first hit Michael. Unless someone reports the abuse, nothing will change. In Michael’s case, Michael seems to have only told Max, after Hank gave him the black eye. No one else seems to be aware of Hank hitting Michael previously. Michael says the couple of times Hank hit him previously “never left a mark”, so evidently no one guessed that Hank was harming Michael. When Michael leaves his home after the confrontation with Hank, he tells Max and Isabel, “You just don't get it, do you? I know Hank's a jerk, but that's the only thing I had, and now you guys screwed that up for good.” Where Michael can live, if he doesn’t live with Hank, is a real concern. Sometimes, even if foster children are removed from one bad home, they may wind up in a worse home. In addition, some foster children face the choice of living in a bad home or no home at all. After Hank disappears, Michael, Max, and Isabel talk in the jeep beside the railroad tracks. Michael says, “Well, he [Valenti] said he was gonna find me a new foster situation. Not a home. A situation.” So, yes, Independence Day is accurate in depicting Hank as a foster parent. Some people like Hank are foster parents.
Independence Day is one notable exception to those story structures. In Independence Day, Michael is hit by Hank. Hank disappears. Michael turns to Philip Evans to obtain his emancipation. The closing scene of the episode shows Michael being granted his emancipation by the judge. In this episode, in contrast to other episodes, the action substantially jumps ahead in time to show the outcome of Michael’s decision to ask help from Philip Evans. (In future episodes, Michael is revealed as having a job and an apartment, and thus able to live on his own, both requirements for being granted emancipation.) In structure, the episode Independence Day is different from most of the other episodes of Roswell. Most episodes cover a period of time of a few days. Some episodes, like Busted! and The Convention, include flashbacks. Independence Day, as well as the episode Graduation, substantially jumps ahead in time at the conclusion of the episode. I like the structure and content of Independence Day. To me, the episode tells an important story and provides a realistic solution for Michael’s problem. The episode is complete in itself. To me, the episode tells a wonderful story!
[ 02-02-2003: Message edited Citrus and Vine ] |
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Posted 02-01-2003 09:27 PM by Citrus and Vine
Thank you, shapeshifter, for posting the tribute to the astronauts and their families on this very sad day. |
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Posted 02-02-2003 11:06 AM by Writergal
I have to say, I agree with you on your thoughts regarding Independance Day. It was a very touching episode for many reasons, and heartbreaking as well. As I said in the book, while it is hard to envision Hank as a foster parent (unless he changed drastically) at the same time, it is a sad reality. I don't know if anyone has seen White Oleander (or read the book, which is even better) but it also focuses on the foster care system in California specifically. It's true that while there are many foster parents out there who are supportive and strong, there are the ones, like Hank, who are just interested in the checks. It is also understandable why Michael would not want to report the abuse - better the evil you know than the evil you don't. That said... I remember a whole discussion on the idea of Hank not originally being the foster parent, but that Michael was taken on by a woman, and Hank hooked up with her - she took off and he just kept Michael there. That concept also made sense to me. What impressed me most about the episode was the relationship dynamics between Michael, Max and Isabel. While we had hints of it before hand, this one really showed off the subtle elements as far as I was concerned.
[ 02-02-2003: Message edited Writergal ] |
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Posted 02-02-2003 01:24 PM by Shilohaura
First, let me say that I work with foster parents and kids in foster care every day. That's what I do for a living, and it's high stress - believe me!! Secondly, my county is blessed with some of the most wonderful foster parents around! People who truly care and often go far above what's required - and who definitely earn the small amount of money they get each month to help with the care of the children! Thirdly, yes - we've had to revoke a few licenses in the 10+ years I've been doing this work. It's sad, but it's impossible to actually know a person's heart. Luckily, we've had no "tragic" occurrances in the process. And - yes - we have a horrific lack of good people willing to open their homes to these children, especially the older kids. It takes a very special person to take on youngsters with the problems that most of our kids present & do it right! Most of our kids present with severe emotional and mental and behavioral problems that require a 24/7 commitment - and LOTS of patience! We've had foster parents injured by some of these children, homes have been damaged & cars stolen - and still they provide a home and unconditional love for them. Not everybody could do this and those simply in it for the money usually quit or are found out quickly - in OUR county! Other very well-meaning and loving people go into it thinking they know what they're getting into and that a child will "turn around" if given the love and nurturing they deserve. They quickly find out differently....That not all children who've been abused/neglected for years have the ability to understand love/nurturing or how to handle it! Some kids actually "short circuit" when they experience this - they can't handle it and get worse! I have one new foster parent right now who has told me that she NEVER imagined the stress and work it would be to love a 2 year old with no bonding abilities! She loves this child and it's taking all she has to work with her. She's making progress, thanks to support services, but has already said that she can never go through this again - they will not foster another child. Sad - they are very caring people. But I guess it wouldn't be such an emotional and physical drain if they weren't. That said, I have - since reading the original books - wanted to talk to Melinda Metz to find out how she researched the character of Michael. He was one of the best evolved characters on the show, but even more so in the books. I have worked with hundreds of "Michaels" in my time, and she hit the proverbial nail on the head with his character!! Funny, but some of these kids are the ones I am closest to and still have contact with after they leave the system. They have given me the most sleepless nights and my highest joys - not just on a professional level, but a personal one, too! Some still call me "Mom". I've had them run away, only to call me and let me know they're okay on a regular basis. Some have asked me to come get them - I always do. I've visited them in jail and I've attended their graduations & weddings! Sadly, I've also attended some funerals. Roswell has had many telling moments end up on the cutting room floor. I think one of them was from IMAA. That scene with the reporter and case manager was originally written with much more info about the children's past, while in foster care and group homes. It added more insight to Michael's journey. Apparently, he went through numerous placements before winding up at Hanks - always passed on because of the havoc he raised and the wierd & destructive things he did. Somewhere in the three seasons, I think I remember it was brough out that, when he was placed with Hank (& his wife?), he rediscovered Max & Iz and basically "put up with things" as he feared being moved out of Roswell and away from them again (maybe this was brought out in the books??) I got the idea that the "woman of the house" either disappeared or died and Hank agreed to keep the kid - Michael made no waves because he didn't want to be separated from Max and Iz again. (Maybe it was a compilation of things said in Independence Day, IMAA original script, and Panacea. I know in the books he WAS with a married couple.) So, I guess my take on the situation was that he'd have had no problem in "disrupting" again, but had finally re-found his "family", Max & Iz, after being left behind in a group home after they were adopted and dealt with the "Hank situation" simply so that he could remain with them. I'm probably all wet and this is just a conclusion that I reached in my little Roswellian fantasy world! But that's the idea that's always been in my mind. And I agree that ID was very well done. And I think that BF did a wonderful job with that script as did the writers! |
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Posted 02-02-2003 02:27 PM by Algieba
The issue of foster homes is one I have to deal with daily because I am a teacher in the state of Florida. Michael's assertion that his foster father just keeps him around for the monthly check is very realistic. Foster parents who keep kids primarily for monetary reasons are a sad but necessary compromise. I had a student in my class who had multiple problems so I checked into his background. I found out we have a husband and wife couple who keep several teenagers as foster children. My student was one of them. This man and woman drive expensive cars, are very well dressed and live in an expensive home. When they get a new foster child put into their care, they hand him or her a plastic trash bag to use to store their belongings. By belongings, I mean clothes and personal items. The teenagers they care for are not abused but they are given as little as possible, not even a small chest to keep their meager belongings. Maybe that's not called abuse, but neglect can do a lot of damage to an already fragile ego. When I questioned this, other teachers told me the authorities were well aware of the less than nurturing care of these foster parents but they tolerated it because they had nowhere else to place a lot of these teenagers. They know there are people who are in it just for the money but the number of foster parents who are willing to take rebellious teenagers is low. Teenagers have often been in the system for a while and are difficult to handle. It's a less than perfect system but it's better than a kid being on the street or institutionalized. A lot of my students watch Roswell so we talk about it in class. I gave them an assignment to compare print with nonprint media. Some have chosen to read the books by Melinda Metz, watch the TV show, and read some of the books by other authors that have come out since the series started. I've brought my copy of "Crash Into Me" into the classroom as a resource to help in their comparisons. A lot of my students are not strongly motivated to get a good education so it helps to use stories about teenagers with problems just like their own. Roswell may be science fiction but kids relate to the real life issues that come up. I've used Roswell as a springboard to get into discussions about several issues I wanted to bring up. They love the show. I've been able to get several kids who were disinterested readers hooked on Roswell related books. The latest book out, "Dreamwalk", covers the issues of child abuse and child abandonment. I hope there will be a second or follow-up "Crash Into Me" type book, perhaps to follow this phenomena as it contiunes to grow. This story just isn't going to go away. I think it will capture the interest and imagination of teenagers for many years to come. |
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Posted 02-02-2003 02:57 PM by Algieba
Hi, Shilohaura. I just want to ditto what you said about the foster families who are caring and make such a big difference in their kids lives. I know a couple who have fostered three teenagers and I am continually amazed at their fortitude, patience and love for these kids. I'm not sure what age they got the kids, but I know they've been through years of struggle with the kid's problems with drugs, problems in school, problems with the police. They've been there for the kids every step of the way though. Their last one is entering college soon. I don't think these kids would have made it without them. They've made a difference in this world in a way that few people have. |
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Posted 02-02-2003 05:47 PM by Shilohaura
Hey, Algeiba! Nice to meet you! I, too, agree with what you said that some less than caring foster parents are sometimes tolerated because no one else will take some kids - especially older ones who've already caused problems elsewhere. Surprisingly, some of these kids do BETTER in some of these "marginal" homes - just for the reasons I already mentioned. Some are not able to respond to a lot of nurturing and caring - they don't know what to do with it and wind up disrupting or running away. Some of THOSE kinds of kids do better in homes where the foster parents are more distant and less doting - they can deal with that as long as their basic needs are being met. Sometimes they'll even comply with things they've given others trouble on in the past - like school attendance, etc. Many times these types of foster parents are more laid back and put minimal requirements on the kids to maintain in their home - and sometimes they are less judgemental about things that really upset more "traditional" foster parents, making the child feel more comfortable with open discussions on sexual activity, drug & gang involvement, etc. I've found that some of these kinds of foster parents have had the best luck at redirecting some really hard core teens - they don't get all bent out of shape every time the kid regresses. And they're often more likely to take a kid back after he/she's been removed for some serious offense. I know I try to pick a match carefully. Some kids get swallowed up in homes like these & it's no better than returning them to whence they came! But others do surprisingly well - accomplishing more than anyone hoped for just because they don't feel judged or made to feel that every failure (even big ones)means they have no future. I DO get VERY upset with the idea of a trash bag for a dresser!! That would NOT be allowed in our county!! NEVER! I also had a problem with kids not having any luggage. Every time they had to move, everything they owned - basically their whole life - was stuffed in trash bags and hauled to the new placement. I did NOT like the emotional symbolism this conveyed - to the kids OR the people dealing with them!!! So...I went on the band wagon with organizations and stores, and now we get regular donations of duffle bags, sports bags, small pieces of luggage, back packs, etc, to give to the kids - and they all get new cloths in the beginning - FROM A CLOTHING STORE! (The store sends us the receipts so we KNOW that the clothing was purchased, plus we ask to see the kid's clothes every time we go visit in the home.) A very public "thank you" to our area Wal Mart's and K Mart's is appropriate here! Oh, and - Algeiba...I was a teacher in the past, too! Masters Degree and all! How I EVER wound up doing THIS is totally beyond my understanding!! I, too, believe that Roswell has provided a show that could actually be used to talk with kids about many subjects. Although the Tess/Max thing received a lot of complaints, I also found an opportunity to easily discuss many issues with my own teenaged son who is a Roswell fan. Premature sex and it's consequences, friendships, trust issues, irreversible ramifications of "knee jerk" decisions and bad decisions, etc. We've had some very enlightening talks about these things. And, since they DID decide to continue with the Tess/Max/baby storyline, I was VERY glad that they didn't make Max a "dead beat" dad! His responsibilities as a father, and the fact that he often made the hard choice to make those a priority instead of things he'd rather be doing, the effect it had on his emotional stability & relationships - and that ultimate sacrifice of deciding adoption would be best, I was in tears during that! Maybe because I've stood and cried with teens who've unselfishly made that decision. I have had some teens who have given up their own childhood and done well with parental responsibilities - but it is VERY hard, especially without an extremely strong support system, which many of "my" kids don't have. Considering the unusual situation the Pod Squad is in, Max made the right decision, but that doesn't make it an easy one to deal with. My heart went out to him at the end of that episode - I cried even after it was over! No, although I'm a Dreamer, I was glad that they showed that Max had ongoing problems due to a bad decision made at a time of high stress! The lesson? No matter WHAT the situation - ALWAYS take time to think through a decision that could have life long consequences!!! It may save you, and those you love, a lot of heart ache! And make even the most difficult of lives a lot easier in the long run! |
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Posted 02-03-2003 02:04 PM by Citrus and Vine
Thank you, Writergal, for the recommendation of the book and movie White Oleander. It sounds like a good book! I, too, like the interactions between Isabel, Max, and Michael in the episode Independence Day. I think it shows the importance of having people you can rely on. They each are there for each other in so many ways. They really are a family! Thank you, Algeiba and Shilohaura for explaining so much! I didn’t realize it the first time I read your posts, Shilohaura, but I think you indirectly well explained why it was difficult for Michael to relate to the Evans. Your observation that sometimes kids do better in homes with fewer expectations really points that out, I think. I think Michael’s discomfort in playing the Monopoly game by the rules shows that Michael has had to think beyond conventional restraints for quite some time, in order to survive. I am very happy to hear of the success you’ve had in getting suitcases, backpacks and duffle bags for foster kids who must move their things! That is so wonderful!!! I think it makes a real difference! I’m so glad you’ve had rewarding moments as well, with kids who have been real challenges! Thank you, Algeiba, for pointing out the harm neglect can do to kids. Abuse is much more overt and can easily be identified as a reason for undesirable behavior. Subtle neglect, on the other hand, like failure to provide a dresser for someone staying in a home that has much, can be so destructive to a person’s identity. I think that’s one of the reasons why Tess interests me so much as a character. Tess is a person raised by someone quite different from herself. She seems to have been raised to fulfill certain expectations Nasedo had for her. She was raised to believe her real home was on another planet. Tess’ real needs of love and acceptance as a person seem to have been neglected. I can’t imagine what it would be like to consider yourself to be so different from everyone around you. Or what it would be like to finally find beings like yourself, only to discover great difficulty in connecting with them. I think it would be very hard to realize that you don’t really fit in anywhere. And as tough as it might have been to live with Nasedo, a person without a human side, I think Tess truly cared about him and was left completely alone in the world, when he died. |
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Posted 02-03-2003 02:10 PM by Dreamer 4 Ever
I have to say that of all the Roswell books I own, this one has been one of my absolute favorites! |
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Posted 02-11-2003 11:36 PM by Nemo
I appreciated the movie connections traced in the book. Many of these had been obscure to me, such as the reference to the "eye of the tiger." I wonder if there were a few more: Is there a reminder of Close Encounters in Ed Harding's mashed-potato mound? Or a reference to Spiderman (a Brendan Fehr favorite) in the name of Liz's great-grandfather, Peter Parker? Another cute thing that was fun to see again recently: among the magazines on display at the Roswell public library (when Max and Liz go there to watch Tess) is the issue of Seventeen having Shiri Appleby on the cover. |
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Posted 02-13-2003 08:38 AM by Writergal
Yes, I totally noticed the mound of mashed potatoes Ed Harding had on his plate - I also thought of Close Encounters. The Peter Parker reference is cute, I missed that connection, and wow... very sharp sighting on the Seventeen Magazine. I'll have to look for it. |
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Posted 02-14-2003 12:37 AM by black widow
<slaps forehead> i can't believe i never caught the peter parker / spiderman reference! d'oh! ps: hi robyn! |
Posted 02-14-2003 08:30 AM by Just Peachy.
quote:
I hadn't noticed the Seventeen magazine, have to re-watch ... I can't remeber what episode it was in S1 but Tess was reading InStyle magazine. |
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Posted 02-16-2003 08:02 PM by Citrus and Vine
Hi Nemo and Just Peachy.! Nemo, I love the picture of Shiri Appleby on the cover of Seventeen magazine you posted! I'm so amazed that the magazine was in the library scene the episode Four Square! How were you able to spot it?! Just Peachy., the InStyle magazine Tess reads is in the same episode as the Seventeen magazine—Four Square! I really enjoy all the marvelous things everyone writes about! Thank you! [ 02-16-2003: Message edited Citrus and Vine ] |
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Posted 02-18-2003 06:05 AM by roswell forever
Hey everyone! I finally got off my butt and went into Borders to get "Crash Into Me." I had the title, the author and the ISBN and I was so excited. I knew it probably wasn't in Borders at that point, coz let's face it, Borders in Australia took a while to actually get the soundtrack in. Anyway, the helpful guy at the desk sadi he'd ring the distributer and then get back to me. Turns out "Crash Into Me" isn't in the country let alone my state, so they have to ship it which will take 6-8 weeks. I can't wait to read it, I hear you did a fantastic job, Robyn! |
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Posted 02-19-2003 12:34 AM by Nemo
Citrus and Vine, someone else pointed out Shiri Appleby's cover photo in the library soon after the episode first aired. I can't remember who, or on what thread, or I would have gladly cited them. I appreciated this observation too, and might have missed it otherwise. As I recall, the RBI's searched the library in detail, and conjectured about the possible significance of some of the book titles that stood out, such as Childhood's End, by Arthur C. Clarke. IMAGE: www.crashdown.com/screencaps/S1/gal118/118_169.jpg
[ 02-19-2003: Message edited Nemo ] |
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Posted 02-19-2003 09:33 AM by Maliejandra
I really loved that book. It told me several things I didn't already know about the stars and because of the information given about fan events and fund raisers, I am really proud to be a Roswell fan. I wish that we could do more things but since I'm not an adult and am still under my parent's rule, I can't really be a part of those types of things. |
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Posted 02-20-2003 12:59 AM by Nemo
IMAGE: www.crashdown.com/screencaps/S1/gal102/102_107.jpg Regarding the scene in Monsters when Maria had to go see the sheriff, the book points out that Maria's costume (1) is uncharacteristic of her, and (2) changes sometime after she picks up Isabel but before they arrive at school. My wife and I had noticed (1), but imagined that the choice of costume had been imposed by Liz, who was also trying to choose Maria's words for her. When Maria protested "This is so ludicrous...." I thought she was referring to the costume as well as the rehearsed replies. We hadn't noticed the full extent of the change (2). We did see that Maria, by the time she meets Isabel, has already ditched the tie -- doubtless that was done as soon as the interrogation was over. MARIA: You can ride with me if you want, but on the way I have to make a stop at home -- I am *NOT* showing up at school looking like this. ISABEL: Whatever. [ 02-20-2003: Message edited Nemo ] |
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Posted 02-20-2003 02:34 AM by Citrus and Vine
Hey Nemo! I love your dialogue! Sounds just like them! Another possibility is that Maria carried the dark pants and jacket in the car with her. People frequently carry clothing changes with them. Maria could have stopped at a gas station or convenience store restroom to change. She also could have changed in the car. Like Robyn Burnett, your wife, and you, I think Maria's choice of clothes for her interview with the sheriff was unlike her usual choice in clothing. I think Maria wanted to dress conservatively to make a good impression on the sheriff. Maria was very nervous, and I think her choice of a uniform-like outfit probably made sense to her, as she was dealing with an officer of the law. I think the contrast between Maria's usual choice of clothing shows how seriously Maria takes the interview. I also think that Maria would not be caught dead wearing that outfit to school, and so that is why she changed part of her clothing. Love the pictures you post! They explain so much!
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Posted 02-20-2003 09:08 AM by Citrus and Vine
Just wanted to add a bit more on the subject of Maria's outfit in Monsters. Concerning 1), that the outfit was uncharacteristic of Maria. Most of us, I think, at some point in our lives have been given gifts of clothes that are not our style. Sometimes the clothes are hand-me-downs from well-meaning friends or relatives. Sometimes the clothes are special gifts, reflecting someone else's taste in clothes. Whatever the reason, most of us have had some clothes we avoid wearing. I think the outfit Maria wore that day is clothing that Maria would not ordinarily choose to wear among her friends. I think Maria wore the outfit, hoping to make a good impression, when she went to talk with the sheriff. The outfit is conservative. Afterwards, I think Maria changed part of the outfit to something she felt more comfortable wearing. I really think she probably changed in the car. It would be easy to slip the long, dark pants on beneath her jumper. Once the pants were on, Maria would then remove the jumper. Maria would then add the jacket we see her wearing in school.
I like that Maria changes her outfit from one scene to the next. I think it emphasizes the change in time and the change to the more relaxed, comfortable setting of school. Speaking of details, Nemo, I've really enjoyed the details you pointed out in your archived discussions and theories. Could you tell me where you saw dogwoods and trillium growing near each other? Were they both in bloom at the same time? Or were you referring to the pattern of the leaves? Thank you. |
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Posted 02-21-2003 08:31 AM by Just Peachy.
Citrus and Vine Thanks for reminding me |
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Posted 02-21-2003 08:14 PM by shapeshifter
On page 221, Robyn states that the song for the trip to New York is Papa Fritas' "What am I supposed to do?" I can't confirm this, but what I have discovered is that the song playing does not match the screen captioning, which is Linkin Park's With You:
Was promised by your face The sound of your voice Painted on my memories Even if you're not with me I'm with you But both songs can easily be interpreted to point toward the Max/Liz reunion. |
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Posted 02-21-2003 09:12 PM by Citrus and Vine
You're welcome, Just Peachy.! Hi shapeshifter! I love those songs! Yes, the words of both songs are very meaningful! Papas Fritas - "What Am I Supposed to Do?" plays at the very end of the episode as Max, Tess, Rath and Lonnie leave Roswell in the TransAm. You can confirm that Papas Fritas - "What Am I Supposed to Do?" plays at the end of the episode by visiting this Roswell Music site. (There are other sites on the net listing the songs as well.) The lyrics to Papas Fritas - "What Am I Supposed to Do?" are here. Linkin Park - "With You" plays at the beginning of the episode Meet the Dupes, as Lonnie, Rath, Ava, and Zan walk the streets of New York. It also plays near the end of the episode as Max and Tess begin to leave for New York, and Ava remembers Zan’s death. I would guess that the screen captioning people made a mistake in placing the lyrics in the episode. You seem to spot screen captioning errors on other occasions as well, shapeshifter! Additional songs not listed in the book Crash Into Me can be found on various music sites (for people wanting more complete information). Song identification has been ongoing! Robyn's book lists the majority of songs in each episode, and in most of the episodes, the song identifications are complete! [ 02-21-2003: Message edited Citrus and Vine ] |
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Posted 02-24-2003 11:29 PM by Writergal
I tell you... finding out all the songs in an episode is a challenge. I am so grateful to those individuals who managed to decipher various songs played in each episode based on a few lyrics or a few moments of melody. |
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Posted 02-25-2003 07:21 AM by Just Peachy.
I the songs on Roswell. It's great that they used Australian artists as well, Bachelor Girl and Kasey Chambers. I was so surprised to here the Nullabor Song during 4AAAB, that I called my friend to tell her |
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Posted 02-28-2003 02:28 AM by roswell forever
Okay, just got a call from Borders and going to pick up Crash Into Me right NOW! Can't wait! |
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Posted 02-28-2003 10:48 AM by Writergal
Hope you enjoy it! |
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Posted 02-28-2003 01:06 PM by SSG
You know something...I noticed something in the book I forgot what page it was on...but..its in the "Tale of Two Parties" music section. She states that Michael and Maria come into the Crashdown the next morning singing P.O.D's "Alive"...but...it was actually Max and Maria who came into the Crashdown the next morning singing. |
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Posted 02-28-2003 10:37 PM by Algieba
I was so surprised to read in "Crash Into Me" in the Episode Guide for "To Have and To Hold" the statement, "I really only have one thing to say about 'To Have and To Hold': Kivar rocks." I say surprised, because I've seen very little about Kivar among all the posts, yet I thought he stole the show in Interruptus. Even in his small part at the end of THATH, he was a presence. He was an imposing figure and came across as a very believable man in charge of a world. Too bad he had to be evil, because he had great chemistry with Isabel. I'm glad to hear someone agreed with me. Does anyone know if Spence Decker, the actor who played Kivar, has been in anything else? |
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Posted 03-01-2003 12:13 AM by black widow
here is his entry on imdb.com ... not too much info there, unfortunately. but yeah, i agree with you and robyn -- kivar had more chemistry with isabel in those couple of scenes than jesse had with her all season! |
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Posted 03-01-2003 12:30 AM by shapeshifter
But Adam Rodrigez/Jessie did well as "Darrin Stevens" (Bewitched) in IMAA. In fact, that would make a cute show. BTW, my daughter is a Sabrina fan, and Sabrina just got engaged. I wonder if they're gonna do an IMAA-type thing. |
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Posted 03-01-2003 03:26 PM by Nemo
Citrus and Vine, to answer your question about the dogwoods and trilliums: It was in June, in Mount Rainier National Park -- the Silver Falls Trail, between the falls and the visitor center, on the E side of Ohanapecosh River. I'm not sure, but I think both types of plants were in bloom at the same time. (My wife says we have the same things in our back yard, and there are times when both are in bloom there too, although earlier in the year at our lower elevation.) [ 03-01-2003: Message edited Nemo ] |
Posted 03-01-2003 05:26 PM by Writergal
quote: You are correct. Another typo to note. I tell you, after going through that manuscript over and over again, you get dizzy! As for Kivar, Algeiba... I was SOOOO disappointed when they just lost that character after two episodes. He was great, in my mind. I also loved Nicholas, and was sad he couldn't be brought back for S3, but by then the tone had changed, so... |
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Posted 03-02-2003 09:27 AM by shapeshifter
I just read that SciFi is going to start the reruns over again in April. It would be really cool if they would plug your book, Writer Gal, during the commercials, but pretty much they only do their other programs and car insurance. |
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Posted 03-02-2003 11:09 AM by Writergal
Hey, thanks for the thought at least! I only wish we were able to get the reruns here. The tapes I have are pretty poor in their quality, and I would have loved to redo them all while enjoying the reruns. Unfortunately Space just can't do it (or won't, but I think it's "can't" because of the rights being held by SciFi or something...) My friend Nikki Stafford wrote Bite Me which is the same as Crash, only for the Buffy crowd, and it's always great to catch her on Space doing Buffy commentary or such. That's a phenomenal book by the way if anyone is a Buffy fan. She was my mentor when it came to Crash. She's also one heck of a gal! |
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Posted 03-02-2003 01:22 PM by black widow
echoing that, nikki *is* a very cool gal! i'm sorry i missed her bufy commentary on SPACE friday night. i think the problem with SPACE is, being an affiliate of CITY/CHUM corporation, they had the canadian rights to roswell for a two-year period, which ran out at the beginning of september, 2002. and once the first-run episodes went off the air on CITY, SPACE no longer wanted to broadcast them / didn't want to renew their rights. roswell reruns didn't air at a great time on SPACE (fridays at 9, saturdays at 5), so no one was watching, and i guess they felt they weren't recouping their money's worth. i remember having a bit of a dialogue with the people at CITY/CHUM when we were in the throes of renewal campaigning, and that's pretty much what they told me, more or less (not in those words!). and i know she'll probably smack me for saying so ... but i wanted to say robyn! you've done such an amazing, outstanding job on 'crash into me' and i wanted to wish you every happiness and success for the coming year! {hugs} have a great day! |
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Posted 03-02-2003 08:53 PM by Citrus and Vine
Hi Nemo! Thank you for the information of trillium and dogwood growing together in Mount Rainier National Park! The higher elevation also explains the blooming time. How wonderful you also have them growing in one location! They are such marvelous plants. I especially love your description, “Next trip, a few days ago, we took a hike along a mountain river, and scores of trilliums were silently chanting 3, 3 while the dogwoods were answering 4, 4.” It is so well said and poetic! |
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Posted 03-02-2003 11:39 PM by shapeshifter
Citrus & Vine, You piqued my interest so that I just had to go re-read what Nemo had said about dogwoods & trilliums. In my efforts to preserve, format, and publish on the web many of the discussions that I thought were significant, I have often failed to read them. But yes, very poetic! quote: Reading this I was struck by the much greater likelihood in the flower world of them singing choruses of 5, 5 (as the most common number of petals). There were many theories of Liz being the 5th alien. But recently on blu5 we had a nice discussion of Destiny vs. Fate (or coincidence?) in which Momo had wished for more closure from Tess in Departure, to which I replied that it would have been nice if Tess had at least turned to Liz in the car and said, "You'll be the fourth now." [ 03-03-2003: Message edited shapeshifter ] |
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Posted 03-03-2003 12:33 AM by shapeshifter
Just had to post again to try to get my edit on the previous post to show. [ 03-03-2003: Message edited shapeshifter ] |
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Posted 03-13-2003 07:56 PM by Writergal
I'm finding this whole "musical key has special message" concept quite intriguing, but I'm not following it completely. Is there a thread I should check out to get more details? [ 03-13-2003: Message edited Writergal ] |
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Posted 03-13-2003 10:26 PM by Nemo
Oh, now you have seriously rattled my cage. Just you wait until I can assemble some examples to show you. (But first, gotta practice. Concert coming up soon.) [ 03-13-2003: Message edited Nemo ] |
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Posted 03-14-2003 12:27 AM by Nemo
That business with the musical keys seemed to be part of a more general phenomenon in the backgrounds of Roswell: the prevalence of 4's and 3+1 combinations. In the three years of the story, musical keys (or at least notes suggesting a key) have been mentioned exactly three times: Maria [Blind Date] calls for an E-flat. Now, if we consider the fifteen major keys, from seven sharps to seven flats, they are:
6# F# 5# B 4# E 3# A 2# D 1# G (0) C 1b F 2b Bb 3b Eb 4b Ab 5b Db 6b Gb 7b Cb Already in the Pilot, in that pivotal "Up North" scene, there was a scale on the blackboard behind Liz, in the key of A-flat major (four flats). It seemed intriguing that Liz stood almost exactly in front of the D-flat (the fourth flat of the key signature) throughout the scene. (See http://theddd.net/pi/pi50.jpg ) [ 03-14-2003: Message edited Nemo ] |
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Posted 03-14-2003 12:35 AM by black widow
that's actually pretty cool. but what, then, is the significance of the 3, 1, 4 being repeated? 4 -- the royal four, okay, i can see that. but the other two? |
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Posted 03-14-2003 01:01 AM by Nemo
There are lots of 3-1-4 patterns, such as during the channel-surfing in TSAP (by Isabel and later by Grant Sorenson): Cowboys on horseback in 1+3 arrangement, later 4 aircraft in diamond formation. Or the three aces in Max's poker hand (ITW) -- the suits were clubs, spades, diamonds, whose shapes (by the number of lobes or points) suggest 3, 1, 4. There is an especially good one in the opening sequence of The Convention: the threefold radiation symbol on the UFO museum, the fourfold Zia sun symbol (adopted by the State of New Mexico) on the sheriff's station, and in between them, Liz standing next to the one-diamond pattern in the cafe doorframe. (There are so many of these that I often wondered whether the RBI's would get tired of having them pointed out.) I have often wondered whether the "Triangle AFE = AEF" on Ms Topolsky's blackboard, or the cafe sign so often seen cropped to AFE, is more subtle noteplay, again corresponding to 3, 1, 4. IMAGE: www.crashdown.com/screencaps/S1/gal101/101_024.jpg [OK, I see the question above, about interpretation, but will have to wait on that topic until later this weekend.] [ 03-14-2003: Message edited Nemo ] |
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Posted 03-17-2003 12:03 AM by Nemo
One way to interpret the 3-1-4 patterns is that Tess, one of the royal four, was separate from the other three in various ways. (She was revealed to us much later, and proved to have a different agenda.) But sometimes it seemed as if the 1 referred to Liz. I never did find a satisfyingly consistent interpretation. |
Posted 03-18-2003 02:28 PM by Writergal
quote: I know this probably seems simplistic, but following along with the idea that Liz represents the number 1, could it not be that Isabel, Max and Michael represent the number 3 and thus 3+1=4... the true Royal four? |
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Posted 03-18-2003 09:20 PM by shapeshifter
And after Tess leaves & Liz develops her powers, she would be the 1 of the 3+1. |
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Posted 03-30-2003 12:15 AM by Nemo
The book points out that the Blind Date radio station KROZ is fictional, although the initial K is correct for Roswell (or anywhere in the US west of the Mississippi). As Reggie pointed out on the Science Fiction threads, the center frequency 101.2 is also fictional: since the FM band, from 88 to 108 MHz, is divided into contiguous channels 0.2 MHz wide, 101.2 is not at the center of any channel but lies on the boundary between two of them. (Valid center frequencies all end in an odd digit ~.1, ~.3, ~.5, ~.7, or ~.9.) I suspect the 101.2 was chosen for the Valentine's-Day symbolism of getting the separated 1 and 1 together to make 2. [ 05-26-2003: Message edited Nemo ] |
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Posted 03-30-2003 01:02 AM by shapeshifter
Robyn also points out in Tale of Two Parties that the burning cactus full of resolutions would surely not be up to fire codes. I thought it was pretty scary when I saw it too. After that club fire that was in the news last month, I think our alarm was even more justified. Has anyone out there ever heard of burning a cactus like that indoors? And if so, are there any safety features? |
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Posted 03-30-2003 11:19 AM by Shilohaura
I have heard of similar rituals during my time living in the Southwest, but they usually occurred outside. I think maybe they were recreating it inside for the oldsters - hopefully the thing was in a big stand filled with water - with lots of extra water close by!! One of the most beautiful things I saw while there was when the entire highway between Taos and Santa Fe was lit with lumiarias at Christmas. All of the homes, mostly adobe construction, also had them in every window, on rooftops, sidewalks and driveways. (Supposedly, groups of people took care of segments of the highway to light them every night and keep them lit until dawn.) They had a processional that started in the Ranchos De Taos church and ended at the Church of the Miracles in Santa Fe on Christmas Eve. It took many days and symbolized Mary & Joseph looking for "room in the Inn" and being told there was no room for the Christ Child. People joined the procession as it went from hamlet to hamlet through the beautiful Rio Grande countryside - lit by thousands upon thousands of lumiarias on the roadway each night. The Santa Fe Plaza, close to the church, had so many of them that it was almost like sun rise light! The procession ended at the Church of the Miracles in Santa Fe where they finally "found room for the Christ Child to be born" on Christmas Eve and a beautiful luninaria lit midnight Mass was held. Absolutely beautiful!!! Don't know if they still do it - or if they do it every year or just every 7 years (symbolic of required forgiveness & grace), but it was something to behold! The "burning of the cactus" occurred on New Years Eve. Only people didn't hang resolutions on it - they placed their problems and worries from the prior year on it and burned them so they wouldn't be carried over to the New Year - to start the New Year with a clean slate and make it open to new possibilites without it being drug down by old problems. A truly symbolic action in referrence to our podsquad and friends! [ 03-30-2003: Message edited Shilohaura ] [ 03-30-2003: Message edited Shilohaura ] |
Posted 03-30-2003 07:16 PM by Citrus and Vine
quote:
quote: Actually, the sheets of paper placed on the cactus shape burn outdoors, not indoors. The cactus in question is outside at all times. The cactus is never indoors. Liz greets the guests, as they enter. Liz wears a warm jacket. Liz is outside.
Jeff Parker hangs the papers on the cactus. The cactus is outside the building. The café door is open behind Jeff. Jeff and the cactus are outside. Jim Valenti looks at his watch. Jim stands outside. Max, Liz, and other guests stand outside for the ceremony. Some people do not wear coats, as they are outside only a short while. The papers blaze outdoors.
The scene clearly shows the papers on the cactus burn outside the building.
[ 03-30-2003: Message edited Citrus and Vine ] |
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Posted 03-31-2003 09:35 AM by Maliejandra
I was just reading and under Ch-Ch-Changes, there was talk about why Liz didn't tell Max about Future Max and how she didn't sleep with Kyle. Well, she did- in Departure. There was something else but I don't remember it right now. |
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Posted 03-31-2003 08:14 PM by Writergal
Hello everyone - hope you are all well! With regards to the cactus... yes, it was outside, but it appeared to be in the area that was "covered" which was what struck me as odd. I figured if they were going to burn the cactus, it should be in the middle of the street, or the like. And for the Departure confession... yes, she did tell Max about Kyle, but not about Future Max. I don't recall her ever telling Max about Future Max (perhaps because she may have had concerns about the affect it would have on the future, and such...) |
Posted 03-31-2003 10:09 PM by Citrus and Vine
quote: The cactus is in front of the covered portion of the outdoor eating area. Here is an overhead view. Note the planters. Note the area is bricked to the street. Here is a view of the cover over the outdoor eating area. Here is the cactus. The table and the planter are behind the cactus. The cactus is in front of the table and the planter. The cactus is in front of the covered area. There is nothing flammable near the cactus. The cactus itself is nonflammable. There are people watching the cactus, as the papers burn on the cactus’ nonflammable surface. In the scene of the cactus with burning slips of paper, everything looks safe.
[ 04-01-2003: Message edited Citrus and Vine ] |
Posted 04-01-2003 01:16 AM by shapeshifter
quote:In EOTW, FM tells Liz that if he 'encounters' himself, they will both cease to exist. Perhaps Liz is afraid that telling Max about FM will also have a negative, albeit not as severe, effect. Citrus & Vine, thanks for posting those pictures. Writergal, I noticed in your book that you spell Mr. Parker's first name "Geoff," but elsewhere I see it spelled "Jeff." Do you, or does anyone else know how it appears on the scripts? |
Posted 04-03-2003 01:46 AM by Nemo
quote:I think that's one of two possibilities that seem natural. The other is that maybe sometimes the one represents Tess. Note that after Tess comes into the story, sometimes the patterns are 3+1, sometimes 4+1 or 1+3+1. Some related observations are on this thread on Ros1. [ 04-03-2003: Message edited Nemo ] |
Posted 04-03-2003 07:42 PM by Writergal
quote: for part one... that's what I thought, but earlier someone had mentioned that Liz had told Max... I'll take a look at the thread again... I wondered that myself, looking at your email. I must have had a reason... I think it depended on the source I checked. Not sure, to be honest. Sometimes spellings were different depending on the site I was using. I remember debating that spelling in my head... then choosing Geoff. Hmmmm. I'll let you know if it comes back to me. Thanks for the clarification on the cactus, Citrus and Vine. It was really tough to see exactly where the cactus had been set aflame. I'm just glad to see that the fire regulations were adhered to. [ 04-03-2003: Message edited Writergal ] |
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Posted 04-05-2003 11:25 AM by gotmilk
I just wanted to pop in and say thanx so much to Robyn Burnett for writing that book. It's great and I love it...so thanx. |
Posted 04-06-2003 12:03 AM by shapeshifter
quote: Qfanny sent me the call sheets from her set visit to Cry Your Name--they have his name spelled "Jeff." Maybe "Geoff" was Season One or Two spelling? Read about Qfanny's trip and see the call sheets (page 2) and set map. [ 04-06-2003: Message edited shapeshifter ] |
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Posted 04-06-2003 05:44 PM by Writergal
You know, I really don't know why it went from Jeff to Geoff. I am at a loss. I must have seen it somewhere/came to that conclusion somehow, but I cannot figure it out! Thank you, gotmilk, for your kind words. [ 04-06-2003: Message edited Writergal ] |
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Posted 04-15-2003 04:20 PM by Johnneh
Hey Robyn, I saw on the Toronto Trek website that you're going to be appearing there! How cool! I am hopefully going to be attending, so I'll see you there! BTW, do you know if they are going to have any Roswell discussions this year? Last year they had 3, I believe, and 2 of which I attended! It would be neat for them to have another with you in the presence! |
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Posted 04-17-2003 08:01 AM by Writergal
Actually, I suggested a couple, but I don't know if they've been picked up. We shall see! I hope so. It would be great to actually talk about elements of the show again... |
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Posted 04-18-2003 05:37 PM by black widow
robyn and/or john, do either of you know when it is? michelle and i were thinking of going, but i accidentally deleted the e-mail i had which had the dates! |
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Posted 04-19-2003 08:18 AM by shapeshifter
I'll be in Toronto and Kincardine from June 20-27 if anything Roswellian is going on there then. LOL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On page 160, Robyn asks some questions about 285 South (which aired this week on SciFi) that many fans have also asked: quote: Obviously they must have moved up the scene where the Sheriff gets word over the CB radio that M&M are headed south on 285, and also cut out a clip of Kyle overhearing. So, unfortunately, this scene shows after Kyle is on his way past the 285 South sign. quote:This part is awkward, but when M&M broke down in the dark, they were at Pecos, Texas. I just did a Mapquest for the route from Pecos to Marathon, and it estimated travel time at 2 hours, 38 minutes. Both car loads of aliens were stopped by the road block and car trouble, whereas Kyle zoomed right down the highway to the road block where he found them. The real CHAD here is that it's broad daylight when M&M get stopped by the Highway Patrolman, at which point Michael says they have 3 hours to go. Yet it's night when they have traveled just about 20 minutes further to the 'nooky' motel. There are other CHADs in this episode regarding time of day of the scenes. I guess we just have to assume that this is alien 'subsets of time' at work. |
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Posted 04-19-2003 02:59 PM by black widow
don't forget in the next episode, they leave marathon, texas at the break of dawn, and yet still manage to make it home in time to go to school that day (there's a scene with mrs. evans, max and isabel that references that). the timelines in that two-parter are just all screwy! shapeshifter, if you'd like to get together for a coffee or drink when you're in TO, let me know! i've been waiting for any cast member's movie to debut this year (other than biker boyz, for which i was realy ill during its entire duration at the cinema) so i could organise a TO roswellian movie outing, but i haven't a clue when any of their films are coming out. [ 04-19-2003: Message edited black widow ] |
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Posted 04-19-2003 05:33 PM by Johnneh
Hey BW, Toronto Trek will be July 11th-13th this year at the Regal Constellation Hotel (that's near the Pearson Airport). Let me know if you guys plan on going! And shapeshifter, definitely let me know too if you'd like to get together. It's always fun meeting other fans, even if there isn't any official gathering going on. |
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Posted 04-19-2003 07:48 PM by shapeshifter
I'll be attending a Librarian's conference at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre from the 20th to the 23rd, then going to my sister's in Kincardine for a few days. I get in on the 19th. I'd love to have tea and talk Roswell. About the time-of-day CHAD on the return trip from Marathon, Skvode suggested over on the SciFibb, that if they left Marathon at dawn, and if dawn was at 4:30, and if they went 90mph, they could get to school on time. But considering that Maria's car had to be towed, I don't think the Jeep could go that fast. Maybe there was an off-sreen thing in which this was when Isabel finally develops her mechanical abilities (like with the carburator in IMAA). Happy Easter/Passover everyone. I know there are some tragedies in many corners of the world right now (even in our small town), but spring is a time to have new hope. |
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Posted 04-20-2003 12:51 AM by black widow
june 21 to 23, i am off limits to the entire planet as i'll be holed away in my room reading order of the phoenix for 48 hours straight! but if you're around on the 19th or 20th, i'd love to hang out--you too, johnneh! about the timeframe for the marathon trip: i guess so ... but it still seems sorta far-fetched, y'know? |
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Posted 04-21-2003 11:14 AM by Citrus and Vine
Hi shapeshifter! quote:When the Jetta stopped running, Michael and Maria were near the Sultan’s Motel. What indicates they were at Pecos?
quote: I think Michael’s estimate of 3 hours to the destination is based on a different rate of speed than Mapquest’s estimate. I think it is likely that Mapquest calculates the time based on driving within posted speed limits. Michael was stopped for driving at 94 miles per hour. Therefore, I think Michael would figure the time to be shorter than what Mapquest estimates. Thus, I would say that Michael’s time estimate is different from what Mapquest estimates. Using the two (differently based) estimates together would produce erroneous information. The conclusion “it’s night when they have traveled just about 20 minutes” is incorrect, in my opinion. Again, I am interested in learning what indicates that Michael and Maria’s car stopped running at Pecos. |
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Posted 04-21-2003 10:23 PM by shapeshifter
Citrus & Vine, I got "Pecos" from the transcript:
RADIO: This is Donnie Jenkins at KZTX 97 with a special report. Anyone planning on heading past Pecos on 285 South, your plans have just changed. We got an 18-wheeler jack-knifed just past Crown Gulch. All traffic is stopped. Highway patrol estimates the road will be blocked off for at least 2 hours, but stay tuned to KZTX 97 for updates throughout the evening. Now back to your hit radio KZTX. ISABEL: Great. They probably already made it through. Now what are we supposed to do? MAX: We'll just get some rest...keep going when it's open. |
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Posted 04-22-2003 10:53 PM by Citrus and Vine
Hi Shapeshifter! Thank you for your response and information that Pecos, Texas is the area where Maria and Michael broke down in the Jetta. I appreciate that you responded while on your trip! Hope you are having a wonderful time at the Librarian’s Conference! With regard to your previous concern, you stated, “just did a Mapquest for the route from Pecos to Marathon, and it estimated travel time at 2 hours, 38 minutes. Both car loads of aliens were stopped by the road block and car trouble, whereas Kyle zoomed right down the highway to the road block where he found them. The real CHAD here is that it's broad daylight when M&M get stopped by the Highway Patrolman, at which point Michael says they have 3 hours to go. Yet it's night when they have traveled just about 20 minutes further to the 'nooky' motel.” According to MapPoint at www.msn.com under Maps and Directions, the estimated time to travel from Pecos to Marathon is 2 hours 14 minutes. This contrasts with the Mapquest estimate of 2 hours, 38 minutes that you quoted. Michael estimated 3 hours to go. Using MapPoint’s estimate, Michael would have traveled at least 46 minutes from the time he made the statement. That would give plenty of time for darkness to fall. Again, as I stated in my previous post, Michael was stopped by the highway patrolman for traveling 94 miles per hour. Therefore, I think Michael would have had even more time to travel that his previous 3 hour estimate to Marathon. (Once Michael was stopped for speeding, I think he would have driven more slowly than he did at the time he made the statement that there were 3 hours left.) Hence, I think it is likely that Michael traveled even longer than 46 minutes, the figure derived using Michael’s estimate along with MapPoint’s estimate. Therefore, Roswell is correct in depicting nightfall when Michael and Maria stop at Pecos, Texas. IMAGE: www.crashdown.com/screencaps/S1/gal105/th.105_099.jpg IMAGE: www.crashdown.com/screencaps/S1/gal105/th.105_103.jpg IMAGE: www.crashdown.com/screencaps/S1/gal105/th.105_122.jpg IMAGE: www.crashdown.com/screencaps/S1/gal105/th.105_127.jpg IMAGE: www.crashdown.com/screencaps/S1/gal105/th.105_128.jpg
To reach the page, go to www.msn.com, click Maps & Directions on the left side of the page. Then click the heading "Directions". Enter "Pecos" in the box for City and "TX" in the box for state under the heading "Start". Next enter "Marathon" in the box for City and "TX" in the box for State under the heading "End". Then click "Get Directions".) [ 04-22-2003: Message edited Citrus and Vine ] |
Posted 04-23-2003 10:10 PM by shapeshifter
quote:Thanks in advance, LOL. I won't be going on the trip until June. But I am going to be out of town next week for a few days. Maybe you can visit the RBI thread if it falls to the 3rd page of Ros1. I'm sure you can find something useful to say there. quote: Thanks for the directions to the directions. LOL I used tinyurl.com to make this link to the map. |
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Posted 04-24-2003 08:58 AM by Citrus and Vine
Thank you, shapeshifter, for providing a direct link to the page on MapPoint! I really appreciate it! Sorry to get so detailed about reaching the page without the direct link. I know you know how to navigate Mapquest, which is similar to MapPoint. I posted the details, because sometimes people (ok, I really mean me) can have problems retrieving information. Sorry about placing you in Toronto two months ahead of schedule, also! Hope you have a great time in June! |
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Posted 04-25-2003 06:57 PM by Citrus and Vine
In the episode 285 South, there are three ways characters learn Michael and Maria (and later Max, Liz, and Isabel) are traveling South on 285. Liz hears the information on the cell phone. Maria conversationally says they are going South on 285. Liz passes along the information to Isabel. Kyle is in the café, during Liz and Isabel’s conversation. It is possible Kyle overheard their conversation. The FBI agent follows Liz, Isabel, and Max as they travel south on 285. Kyle leaves the café, when Liz, Max, and Isabel leave to find Michael and Maria. It is possible Kyle followed them for a while, as they drove—long enough to learn that they headed south on 285. Sheriff Valenti learns from the highway patrol that Michael has been traveling south on 285. It is possible Kyle overheard his father's conversation or spoke with his father directly. These are three ways characters learned Michael, Maria, Isabel, Liz, and Max were traveling south on 285. Robyn is right in saying the episode does not directly show how Kyle learned the information. However, the episode gives three possibilities. Shapeshifter suggests that the scene with Valenti learning the information is misplaced—that the scene should precede the scene in which Kyle talks on the phone with Liz about where she is, and then Kyle turns south on 285 in his car to pursue her. Shapeshifter says that it is likely Kyle overheard his father’s conversation first, and then drove to 285. I agree with shapeshifter about the way Kyle learned where Liz was traveling. I think it is possible, even likely, that Kyle gained the information to go south on 285 from his father. Overhearing his father’s conversation or talking directly to his father is not shown. Why then omit such a scene and place the scene of Kyle driving south on 285 immediately before the scene with Valenti learning the information? If a scene with Kyle overhearing the conversation or talking with his father were shown in sequence, then the audience would wonder why Kyle meets up with Max, Isabel, Liz, Maria, and Michael at the motel, but Valenti did not find them at the motel. Instead, the sheriff encounters the group’s location later in time, at Atherton’s dome. To explain why the sheriff did not meet up with the group before or at the same time Kyle did would necessitate showing that the sheriff did other things before he left to follow the group. That would require more air time. That would mean some other scene would be cut shorter or omitted all together. The reason Kyle is not shown learning the information to go south on 285 is that Kyle is not the main character. The story cannot follow every character in detail. Enough information is given in the episode to indicate that there are three possible ways Kyle could learn the information to go south on 285. Each episode is approximately 44 minutes in length. The episodes have multiple characters with interesting stories. Roswell treats the audience as able to draw its own conclusions. Max, Michael, Isabel, Maria, and Liz did not know Kyle would find them. It was a surprise to them that Kyle appeared. How Kyle found them is not essential in the scenes shown. I like Roswell very much! I like that Roswell presents its stories in the way that people learn things in real life. We do not always know how people gain particular information. There are surprises in our lives. Our lives do not unfold like a storybook with information coming to us sequentially in perfect order. We learn different things from different people at different times. We are left to guess and infer the rest.
[ 04-25-2003: Message edited Citrus and Vine ] |
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Posted 04-25-2003 10:23 PM by maxcedo
Looking at the I Have the Power quiz on pages 127 to 128 :
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Posted 04-25-2003 10:58 PM by shapeshifter
quote:Excellent analysis! I can live with that. |
Posted 04-29-2003 08:11 PM by Writergal
quote: The reason I didn't include her is because he told Liz he couldn't heal her before he even went to see her. Shouldn't Liz be the 3rd, because she suggested that if it could be turned on, it could be turned off. [/i][/QB][/QUOTE] Yes, could be argued, but I was looking at it as Kyle and Maria because whatever Liz said before didn't give the final answer. Kyle and Maria were still left to make the final decision. Rather than the melted plate, wouldn't it be astral projection in MITC, or in SH when she says she's changing inside chemically?This post teleconferenced to y'all by Qfanny & shapeshifter, aka Maxcedo [/QB][/QUOTE] Conjecture. Liz's experiences are never really refered to as "alien" until she melts the plate. She says she's changing inside, but that's more of a puberty metaphor. In my mind, anyway. |
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Posted 04-30-2003 01:23 AM by kaotikdreamer75
The book is pretty good.....I wish it had more quotes(a whole section of quotes would have been awesome!!!) and pics though...maybe a section of Liz's journal entries.....I like the episode guide a lot though.... |
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Posted 04-30-2003 09:58 AM by Writergal
Glad you enjoyed it. I agree, Liz journal entries would have been great, but because the book wasn't an "official" guide, I don't think I would have been allowed to add those. I'm not sure. But the idea is cool. |
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Posted 04-30-2003 05:01 PM by Qfanny
Writergal- Thanks for your explanations on the "I've got the power quiz." shapeshifter and I needed to know why the answers were the way they were. As far as Grandma Claudia, I think the fact that Max tried to heal her would still count, but I see where you are coming from. Here's an interesting fact. KROZ 101.2 is not a valid frequency. Reggie pointed this out in the Science Fiction of Blind Date. It's on the Season One Theories Archive web page if you care to read through. Here's what Reggie said on July 30, 2000: As one half of maxcedo, I thought I would let you know. [ 04-30-2003: Message edited Qfanny ] |
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Posted 04-30-2003 07:42 PM by Writergal
Agreed, KROZ isn't a station, but "K" is the start of the stations in Roswell. |
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Posted 05-08-2003 10:03 AM by Qfanny
I am sad because I just had to return my copy back to the library. I had to get it through an interlibrary loan. I've read it through about four or five times and I have to say, "Well done". Maybe someone for my birthday will buy me the book! BTW- I have the "Valenti and Son" poster that was auctioned off at the second summer FanForum gathering. I also have Courtney's skins from a previous auction. Where were the credits for the full page glossy pictures that appeared in the middle of the book. I believe the one where Brendan Fehr is holding up his quilt was taken by Bill Sadler himself. I have to be honest. I don't find the fact that K is the first letter for stations in Roswell to be a "cool fact". I don't know how call letters are assigned to broadcast stations in Canada, but since 1923, all broadcast stations West of the Mississippi River have their first letter as K. Whereas broadcast stations East of the Mississippi River have their first call letter start with a W. Now - there are a few stations out there west of the Mississippi that got their liscense before the 1923 regulation, and they have their first letter be a W also. There's a station in Omaha Ne that falls under this. I think it's much more interesting that the writers gave KROZ an invalid radio frequency. That's all. [ 05-08-2003: Message edited Qfanny ] |
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Posted 05-09-2003 06:23 AM by ps_dreamer
Hi, I haven't got time to read through the whole thread but I sense some interesting topics were discussed so I'll come back for that later. Just want to drop by to say, I just got a copy of 'Crash into me' yesterday! I totally it! When my sister bought it for me I was practically screaming in joy (I don't live in the US and my parents don't allow to buy via net) The book is really fun to read- there are lots of stuff I don't know about Roswell! the bloopers are really interesting. and, I don't think it's being mentioned in the book but someone posted it on the Shiri thread... in (I don't remember the eppy) a scene when Tess and Kyle were in the library (S1)... the camera was paning and caught a glimpse of a copy of Seventeen Magazine with Shiri on the cover! anyway, after I've finished the book- I'll come back and leave more feedback!
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Posted 05-10-2003 04:15 AM by healersbabe
quote: WID!!!!
quote: Cute . Works 4 me 2,.... [ 05-10-2003: Message edited healersbabe ] |
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Posted 05-10-2003 09:20 AM by shapeshifter
healersbabe !! Hi! [ 05-10-2003: Message edited shapeshifter ] |
Posted 05-10-2003 02:59 PM by Citrus and Vine
quote: What is WID followed by 4 exclamation points? Why are you mad? Do you dislike what Nemo said? I Nemo's posts!!! They are excellent! Nemo! |
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Posted 05-13-2003 09:19 PM by Shilohaura
Hi, Guys! Back toward the end of March, I joined in a discussion - I think it's on page 5 of this thread - about the burning of the cactus ritual at Christmas. I sort of went off on a description of the luminarias that lit the prosession to Santa Fe - to the Church of the Miracles. I knew I didn' have any pics of the actual procession, but today (while cleaning my VERY cluttered computer room!) I did find two old post cards of the luminarias in the plaza of Old Town Albuquerque! I've scanned them, but have no idea how to post them!! If anyone is interested in seeing them, and would be interested in posting them for me, PM or email me and I'll send them to you! The pics are old, but it's plain enough to see how absolutely beautiful the Christmas Season is in that part of the country!!! |
Posted 05-22-2003 06:42 AM by Writergal
quote: I forgot to mention, Johnneh that I will definitely be there along with some other Roswell folk and there are presently two Roswell panel discussions. The site is www.tcon.icomm.ca/tt17/ for those of you who will be around at the time. It looks like it's going to be a lot of fun. To see the Roswell panel choices, check out the Programming section, and then the Working Panel List. It's a great excuse to go back and study all those episodes again. |
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Posted 05-22-2003 08:11 AM by black widow
i'm going to see about having crashdown make a news announcement about toronto trek, due to the inclusion of the two roswell panels. i'll definitely be there! ps: as an added incentive ... anthony stewart head (giles, from buffy) will be there, signing autographs! |
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Posted 05-22-2003 05:54 PM by Writergal
I'm going to have to go do more Roswell homework thanks to all these amazing posts that have clarified so many questions/comments! |
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Posted 05-22-2003 10:48 PM by black widow
robyn, i'll quiz you before the convention. |
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Posted 05-22-2003 11:30 PM by shapeshifter
Robyn, It looks like a great conference! I'd love to see the airbrush illustration demonstration. I will be gone by then though. And it is so cool that your book is featured on the main page! IMAGE: www.tcon.icomm.ca/tt17/images/guests/rb_cimtwor.jpg The Roswell panel discussion should be a real opportunity to make the public aware that though Roswell may be cancelled, it is still very much alive, or, as Nicholas said in the recently re-aired Harvest episode, "We may be good as dead, but this is not the end." From the Working Panel List: quote: |
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Posted 05-23-2003 08:09 AM by black widow
there are another two worth mentioning.
quote: and
quote:
[ 05-23-2003: Message edited black widow ] |
Posted 05-23-2003 11:01 AM by shapeshifter
quote:I would soooo want to be there! But if I can't, I hope you get a good turnout! |
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Posted 05-24-2003 08:06 AM by Stargazer_md
Re: can fandom survive cancellation, look at Startrek. Startrek (Classic) ran before VCR's were invented, and while the internet still belonged to the military. When it was gone, it was gone. But fans never gave up. Books and conventions kept the stories alive. I have got to believe that Roswell is growing since (the original) cancellation. Personally I didn't know it existed until recently, I didn't make time to post until this week, and I am even outlining a fan-fic. On the other hand, what may come back may not be exactly what we hope for, we can't all get what we want. Especially as I am an A&I fan. Roswell will be around as long as the fans keep it around. |
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Posted 05-24-2003 08:48 AM by Writergal
You're right about Star Trek - and as you said, they managed to survive even with no internet to bond the fans together at the time. And you are right that while Roswell may come back, it would be different. In fact, I like to imagine what it could become. Perhaps a chronicle of Max's son and a whole new generation. |
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Posted 05-29-2003 01:03 AM by *Sara Stokes*
This is one of my fav. books! It’s something like my bible! And about the episode reviews......so true! Kudos to the writer! |
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Posted 06-04-2003 09:37 PM by Writergal
Thank you very much. |
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Posted 06-06-2003 02:08 PM by CuteAlienBabe
After reading earlier in this discussion about how various things were cut out of the show, is there anyone else who wishes there had been more Michael Maria in the last episode? does anyone know if any was cut? I thought they were the cutest couple on the series. Crash Into Me is so good Writergirl , I'm another person who writes tons. I have tons of fan fiction all over the internet but I want to be an actress for a career. I figure I'll try and do both. Its great to see you on here. Well done on a great book!!! Lucy xxx |
Posted 06-07-2003 01:39 AM by black widow
quote: i have the script for 'graduation' and apparently no ... nothing was cut between michael/maria. it was pretty much what you saw onscreen. i agree it would have been nice to have seen another scene or two between them! |
Posted 06-09-2003 04:11 PM by Writergal
quote: Thanks, Lucy. Best of luck with the acting career. As for Michael and Maria... my biggest issue was how Maria, who had been pushing Michael away for so many episodes, suddenly flipped and wanted to be with him. It wasn't a very smooth transition, but then again... Michael and Maria aren't exactly known for their "smooth" transitions! |
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Posted 06-09-2003 04:34 PM by CuteAlienBabe
Hiya, Thanks for the well wishes with my acting career. I'm kinda hoping it turns out okay too, if not I'm gonna try my hand at writing professionally cos I absolutely love doing that as well. I've been writing since I was little, but then I've been a drama queen since I was little too, its always had to have been one or the other. Agree with ya on the Michael/Maria subject. I don't think there were ever any smooth transitions with either of them but they were the kick @$$ couple on the show in my opinion...well except for Alex and Isabel. Why'd they have to kill him off <sigh> Lucy xxx |
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Posted 06-18-2003 02:01 AM by Nemo
About the Nelly Furtado concert at Las Cruces University (in Baby It's You) -- although this scene may be implausible, as the book states, I think it does serve a plot point: the large outdoor gathering provides a way for Liz and Maria to find Leanna when they are not necessarily even looking for her. (For all they know at that time, Leanna might have no more reality or connection with the case than the nonexistent building in Sweden.) |
Posted 06-18-2003 08:26 PM by Writergal
quote: Agreed... but the cheeziness comes with Maria's "Oooh, one song!" considering the seriousness of the matter at hand. It trivializes it, in my mind, as a way to plug Nelly. It takes away from the tension of the episode. If they were walking by, the concert was going on, and they spotted Leanna, okay. But instead, they went to dance and then saw her. I realize the argument that they are teens and possibly easily distracted, but it felt so contrived. That, and Nelly's "concert" was so implausible. A well-known singer in a courtyard at a college? I felt it could have been handled better. And frankly, I'm not a Nelly fan, which only added to my irk. |
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Posted 06-18-2003 10:27 PM by Old_candyfan
Admittedly I am not up on the pop music scene and all the new artists but I had never heard of her before. I did kinda like the song she sang though. |
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Posted 06-19-2003 02:23 PM by Writergal
I think they just overplayed it in Toronto because Nelly's Canadian. |
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Posted 06-25-2003 07:50 PM by shapeshifter
ITA that the Nelly Fertado scene dialogue did not fit with the plot as well as it could have. BTW, on my plane here (Canada) I was seated next to 2 librarians from the New Mexico State University at Las Cruces. I refrained from making any Roswellian outburts when they told me their place of origin. [ 06-25-2003: Message edited shapeshifter ] |
Posted 06-25-2003 08:58 PM by black widow
quote: you're too polite, robyn -- i flat-out despise her. but i absolutely agree with everything you said -- that scene felt very contrived to me. shapeshifter -- too funny! you've got remarkable self-restraint! i would have been giggling as soon as they'd told me where they came from! |
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Posted 06-28-2003 04:19 PM by Shilohaura
What restraint, SS!!! I know I would have just blurted out something totally embarrassing!!! Is the Conference this weekend?? If not, it is soon, no? Can't wait to hear all about it! Will there be transcripts to post? Too bad there won't be live streaming! We'd all be watching you, writergal! |
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Posted 06-28-2003 04:32 PM by Writergal
Hi Shilohaura The conference is not this coming weekend, but the next (July 11, 12, 13) and I'm sorry you can't be there. Thanks for the support, though. Blackwidow and I will be speaking on the two Roswell panels (which I'm moderating) and I'm really looking forward to it. I have to brush up on my Roswell homework, however. If anyone wants to throw a quiz my way, it's always appreciated! |
Posted 06-28-2003 08:07 PM by shapeshifter
quote:Be sure to know the original Theory of the 2 shapeshifters! And all about Changed Liz. |
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Posted 06-29-2003 03:20 PM by Writergal
Will do, thanks! |
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Posted 07-04-2003 03:48 AM by Softie
I thought that Bands make a point of playing at University's and as its California,why not outside? I didnt think Nelly was out of place at all.I liked the idea and the song.(and I'm OTO!) |
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Posted 07-04-2003 05:54 PM by Writergal
Agreed... bands to play. In an open courtyard, though? That said, it wasn't the fact that the band was playing... it was the fact that in a very tense hunt, the tone shifted to accommodate the band. |
Posted 07-05-2003 03:34 AM by Softie
quote: I see your point,maybe it was unusual, but you never know whats around the corner,literaly in this context,it would have been unatural for the girls to completly ignore a favorite band that happend to be playing,anyway they didnt stay for long, only a few seconds.('m awaiting your book BTW. It would be interesting to find out exactly if bands play in the openat Uni's. [ 07-05-2003: Message edited Softie ] |
Posted 07-05-2003 11:09 AM by shapeshifter
quote:Yes, true, but given their extreme state of grief and the intensity of their mission, I can't imagine them being so cheerful in their facial expressions or in their dancing. Maria's begging to stay for "just one song" was out of character for the plotline as well. Rather, I could imagine Maria saying in a subdued voice, "Maybe we could stay for a song." |
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Posted 07-06-2003 03:28 AM by Softie
SHAPESHIFTER grief has weird affect on people one feels many conflicting emotions and can make one act in an unusual way especially if in denial,I speak from personal experience. Actualy being fictious some licence is allowed?There are many situations in fiction that would never happen in real life,but people accept them, especially in Sci-fi. |
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Posted 07-08-2003 07:12 PM by black widow
being a libra, i can of course see both sides of this! i do mostly agree with writergal -- i found the shift to the concert very jarring and out of place / character. however, and i also speak from personal experience, grief has a way of messing with your mind and making you do or say the most inappropriate things at the most inappropriate times. *shrugs* having said all that, my gut reaction is still that it was kinda contrived ... |
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Posted 07-08-2003 07:36 PM by shapeshifter
ITA that grief and other strong, negative emotions and experiences can cause people to act in ways that do not seem typical. I had a best friend in high school who laughed when she felt like crying. Being her close friend, I understood that she was truly "crying on the inside." But, softie, I think that since it is indeed fiction, they should behave in the more stereotypical grieving way, unless having them laughing is part of the character or plot development. Does that make sense? |
Posted 07-09-2003 12:49 PM by Softie
quote: Well all I can say is it makes sense to me because it is fiction! When my wife died I felt fine for two weeks and laughed and joked around,then it suddenly hit me,that was six years ago,I still havent regained my former self. But Roswell has had a great healing affect on me and helped me cope,its an escape I suppose. I know for a fact that Incubus(who Shiri and I love) do play at outdoor private gigs.They actualy prefere the smaller gigs,as Brandon Boyd (lead singer) said. |
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Posted 07-09-2003 03:14 PM by Writergal
I'm very sorry to hear about your wife, Softie. I'm glad Roswell brought you some solace. Agreed, people don't necessarily behave in a "normal" fashion when grief comes into play. I can totally relate to that one. During the episode, it wasn't odd to me because I felt they were grieving. What made the transition odd was the fact that they were on a very intense hunt for a killer. And yes, many groups do have smaller outdoor gigs. In university, that was common. Usually, however, they were fenced off if they were major singers, with security and the like. The choice of the courtyard felt odd. And okay, I admit, I am biased against Nelly Furtado. |
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Posted 07-09-2003 08:28 PM by shapeshifter
Back when most of you were in diapers, I was at the University of Illinois. I recall it not being unusual in those days to stumble upon a fairly big name playing live outside on a patio or similar venue. I believe I saw Muddy Waters this way. Maybe the writers were older? Think Woodstock. ITA with WG and bw that it was just a very jarring transition--rather like a cheerful commercial in the middle of a drama...hmmm...perhaps the effect they were going for? It certainly was a Nellie Fertado commerical of sorts. BTW, I don't dislike her--my only association with her is Roswell. In fact, I heard that song playing in the grocery store the other day and just wished there was someone there to whom I could blurt out, "It's Nellie Furtado" in a Maria voice. |
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Posted 07-10-2003 02:17 AM by Softie
WRITERGAL Thankyou for your comments re my wife.Its odd to me that I have focussed on a fictional TV show, Sci-fi at that, as I never watch soaps or any other Sci-fi at all,they just dont come up to the standard Roswell has set.Must be part of the grieving process.Thank God for Roswell!...and JCV,the inventor of VHS! If you dont mind me saying so,as you admit to not likeing Nellie,are you sure that this has perhaps clouded your judgement of this situation? Thanks to shapeshifter for the info re Muddy Waters. I remember the 60's well,in fact I was in a band semi- pro,we had the time of our lives, we played anywhere indoors or out,thats why I can relate to the plot. . Your book has arrived and I must say its bigger than I envisaged its also better with so much information and excelllant photo's I haven't read it all through but what I have seen thus far indicates you have worked very hard and I would recommend it to any Roswell lover as a 'Bible'I will certainy treasure and refer to it for years to come. |
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Posted 07-10-2003 09:35 AM by Writergal
Initially I thought it was due to my dislike of Nelly (she's not bad, it's just that the song was played repeatedly for weeks that I felt oversaturated). Then, I put it in perspective... what if it was a band that I liked? I still would have felt jarred. Thanks for the concert info, shapeshifter, and for the kind words Softie. |
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Posted 07-10-2003 04:50 PM by Nemo
Robyn, good luck at your conference tomorrow.... |
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Posted 07-10-2003 05:04 PM by Writergal
Thank you so much! I'm admittedly a little nervous, but I'm looking forward to it. I've chosen what I'm going to be reading from the book - a segment from the Roswell Incident chapter and a longer segment from the Roswell Fan Phenomenon because as far as I'm concerned, that is the most important point to make about the show: the amazing fans. That is what I am most looking forward to... sharing that story. Having had the opportunity to revisit it once more, I just want to say how continually amazed, impressed, and inspired I am by the efforts made by the fans of Roswell. I am honoured to have had the opportunity to write the story. [ 07-10-2003: Message edited Writergal ] |
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Posted 07-10-2003 08:49 PM by shapeshifter
I'm sure you'll be fabulous, Writergal. I wish I was going too. But instead of SciFi, I'm leaving in the morning for 6 days of "Immersion" in how to teach "Information Literacy." And instead of Toronto, it's Cedar Rapids, Iowa for me. To paraphrase Isabel in Harvest, "Could it get any less interesting?" |
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Posted 07-13-2003 10:52 AM by Algieba
I love Furtado singing in the episode. It probably is somewhat out of sync with what was going on but I took it as a normal way for teenagers to act. I know young people can only handle extreme grief just so long before they have to get away from it, appropriate or not. Softie. Strangely enough, I found Roswell to be somewhat soothing also even though I haven't lost anyone close to me recently. I watch very little TV but Roswell is different. The show touched on a lot of difficult, painful things we all might have to go through. I find myself rewatching an episode sometimes just to lift my spirits. It's so funny and endearing in places and yet deals with such scary things that could happen to any of us in a more human way such as feeling left out or different and alone. It shows how others deal with relationships between friends, parents, children, enemies. I find myself seeing myself in something one of the characters does and thinking, oh my gosh, I do the same thing. No wonder I'm clueless sometimes. Other times, a character helps me make sense of something or agrees with me and it makes me feel great. shapeshifter. I bet you have a great time on your trip. I love to travel and see new places and meet new people, especially if I get to fly. I never get over the wonder of being above the earth looking down at all the miniature trees and lakes and other things. I ususally meet more interesting people going to less well known places like Iowa than I do the flashy, popular tourist haunts. However, as for your Immersion in how to teach Information Literacy, you have my deepest sympathy. Since I am a teacher and have been to my share of workshops, I suspect this immersion is not going to be the fun part of your trip. Writergal. I would think being an author has got to be a lot of fun. You get to meet so many people, go so many different places. It's got to be even better when you have readers who are so passionate about what you are writing about. I love your book and hope someday there will be a continuation of Roswell in some form so you can write another book. [ 07-13-2003: Message edited Algieba ] [ 07-13-2003: Message edited Algieba ] |
Posted 07-13-2003 04:00 PM by Writergal
quote: Thank you so much for your kind words on the book. I had a really interesting time this weekend, and met some wonderful people. Roswell, sadly, seemed to be becoming a thing of the past as many sci-fi shows do. That doesn't have to be permanent, however. Those that did recall Roswell and chose to discuss it did so with great fondness. I just want to extend a great thanks to Johnneh and crew (so sorry - I don't know your posting names!) It was so lovely to see you all and your support was so greatly appreciated. Roswell was such a gift for many of us, and I was fortunate enough to be able to have the opportunity to share that through the book. That said, it is a small feat compared to what the fans have accomplished in the past, and once again I was reminded of that. In some ways, I wish we all could have been there to discuss the merits of Roswell and the final details. I am glad we have this forum to do that. Thank you again for all your support and kinds words. [ 07-13-2003: Message edited Writergal ] |
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Posted 07-13-2003 09:12 PM by JoeySPotter
I just came over to say that Robyn (and Fionna!) did a great job at the Sci-Fi convention and I very much enjoyed your thoughts and interpretations of the show. I hope you enjoyed yourself and that extra hour of time after that last "interesting" (and very short) conference. Chrissy |
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Posted 07-14-2003 05:28 PM by black widow
thanks for dropping by, chrissy! it was great to see you (and the gang) again! and thank you, robyn, for moderating two really cool panels ... i especially enjoyed the first one! we had quite a good discussion going! i'm going to write up a little news item for crashdown.com and i'll be sure to put the photos of the panel and you reading 'crash into me' up, too. |
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Posted 07-15-2003 05:53 PM by Writergal
Okay... so to open up a whole new controversial discussion... one of the things discussed at the "Roswell Metaphors/symbolism" panel included the religious references. Max as Christ/God. Any thoughts? |
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Posted 07-15-2003 07:53 PM by black widow
you had to bring that up, didn't you? |
Posted 07-15-2003 10:22 PM by shapeshifter
quote:I will be driving back to the Chicago suburbs tomorrow, so this will be short. Just a couple of tidbits from the Archives (search for the word Christ to find more):
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Posted 07-16-2003 04:15 PM by Writergal
Very cool insights on that one, shapeshifter. My thoughts tended to roam towards the whole role of "God" in the series as well as the parallels. Let me explain... Max manages to separate Gramma Claudia's spirit from her body in Leaving Normal, leading him to tell Liz that he's not God. Later, in a Roswell Christmas Carol, there is a large focus on getting Max to go to the mass, which he does not want to partake in. John is a ghost out to restore the balance, but is he a ghost or is he part of Max's conscience? If he's the former, then perhaps God is suggesting that Max is to use his "godlike" powers to heal. Why I find this difficult to believe is because of the later discovery that by healing individuals, Max is actually changing them, leaving them in an almost dormant state until their alien powers emerge. If it is the latter, and John is merely a part of Max's conscience, then why the heavy handed points made to get Max to celebrate God? A suggestion that Max needs to have "faith"? The following Christmas episode brings on the same question, only this time Max realizes that Samuel is special, and cannot be healed. His "godlike" healing powers are not infallible. Once again, Liz reminds him that he is not God, and we are left with his recognition that not every supposed "sick" child needs to be fixed. Instead, they are unique on their own terms. Then, we come to the infamous Panacea. It could be argued that Max "dying" to save another has great Jesus implications, should Max indeed be following God's plan by healing others. At the same time, however, his "healing" is not natural, and he dies in the process, sending his essence into another. When he rises again, it is in his original form, but contains Wheeler's spirit along with his own. So, Max is indestructable - and yet, the seal passes on to Michael. So, that suggests that Max must have had a moment of death for that to occur. Thus, the Jesus comparison. Okay, back to the question, then. What is the role God plays in this series? How does it relate to Max's powers and in the end, when he goes off with the others intending to use his powers for good, is he following God's path, or is he in fact causing more chaos by altering the physical forms of those he saves? Would the remaining humans end up as confused and tortured as Brody? Phew. Lots to think about. [ 07-16-2003: Message edited Writergal ] |
Posted 07-16-2003 06:30 PM by shapeshifter
quote:Great thoughts, Writergal. Please, please, PLEASE write us a book about the mythology of Roswell! You could have it be a chapter and do mythology of other shows if you think it would make it more marketable. Or maybe write an article on the mythology of Roswell for a journal? I know loula is supposed to be finishing (or finished?) a dissertation on teen fantasy tv shows with a section on Roswell. Anyhoo, I am car lagged right now from my librarians' conference, so, briefly, back to your question above, I think I have to look at it in relation to the series as a whole. Since there's not a lot of consistency, what little consistency exists stands out. And that would be the use of scifi elements to represent teen issues. So, I think the God elements of Roswell would have to be representative of teen issues with God. I'm too wiped to go into it more now. Maybe someone else can take this ball and run with it? |
Posted 07-20-2003 04:15 PM by Writergal
quote: I wish it were possible, Shapeshifter... we'll have to wait until Roswell has a resurgence.
quote: I would agree, there is that element, but at the same time, it goes beyond standard teen issues because of Max's gifts. His issues with God are complicated for a variety of reasons. One, he was engineered rather than "born" and two, he's got exceptional powers. |
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Posted 07-20-2003 09:50 PM by Algieba
I never thought the show intended to say that everyone who was healed by an alien would develop powers. My impression was that only if a human were brought back from near death to life would that happen. I thought that because that was the way Ava put it when she revealed that Liz should have powers. The only humans that experienced that were Liz, Kyle and Jim. The children in the hospital were not at the moment of death. They were terminally ill but none were dying right at the moment Max healed them. There were other healings in the story. Michael healed River Dog. Max healed a bird. All the hybrids could heal to some degree. Fixing a broken wing or ankle or scrape on the face didn't require the intensity of healing energy that bringing someone back from the brink of death would need. At least that's what I thought was being emphasized when Ava told Liz she had powers because Max brought her back. I saw their healing talent as a God given gift to be used for the benefit of mankind or alien kind depending on where they were. Doctors and nurses intervene all the time and prevent someone from dying by using their talents and knowledge to heal so why couldn't Max do the same? I didn't understand Liz's criticism of Max when he healed all the children. She didn't object when he healed her. The ghosts were puzzling. I thought Alex was in Isabel's imagination because of what Alex said to her after Jesse proposed to her. He was sitting with her in the restaurant and trying to talk her into going after Jesse. He said, "You're sitting at a table with no one. I'm not really here." Max's ghost I'm not sure about. I think the idea was to make it so that viewers could decide for themselves. It's got to be hard writing for an audience with so many different beliefs. You don't want to offend anyone so you make it ambiguous enough that no one can be absolutely sure about the reality of the ghost. I didn't think of Max as a Christ figure but as has been pointed out, there were some similarites. I did see him going through a spiritual journey, trying to discover who he was and what his purpose in life was. So many myths have the main character trying to overcome tremendous obstacles in order to save the world or a people or a planet. Max seemed to be doing the opposite. He was given a mission, a destiny, a calling, but he turned it down to choose his own destiny. I wonder if he had never fallen in love with Liz would he have been so adamant about wanting to lead a normal, human life or would he have been more moved by his mother's plea to help save their planet? |
Posted 07-21-2003 06:37 AM by Writergal
quote: That's an interesting point. That solves the whole question about little alien kids running around. As for your comment on Michael and his healing of River Dog, I think the writers later decided that we should forget that little moment as Michael refers to the fact that the healing power is Max's alone.
quote: I think Liz was the personification or the pull towards his human half. If he hadn't fallen in love with her, I think it is fair to say he would have been more moved to save Antar. I think it would have been Isabel who would have been more reluctant in some ways, but then again, she was so desperate to know her real mother. The human connection (Liz, Maria, Alex, etc) kept them questioning. You are right, many many myths follow this structure of the hero battling with his true destiny. Look at Harry Potter as a recent example - another dark haired sensitive type. |
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Posted 07-21-2003 09:43 PM by shapeshifter
Algieba, that whole post on the bottom of the last page was tremendous. And Writergal's response is wonderfully thoughtful too. quote:Or, perhaps the healing powers were just a convenient, life-supporting skill engineered into their bodies on Antar, but their human side (as defined positively by Langley--not as defined by real world atrocities) gave that abilitly the potential of being used for God-directed purposes. Writergal, back to your original question about the place of religion in the show, it is very interesting that some powerful archetypes emerged in Roswell almost inspite of the writers. |