WHAT IF MICHAEL WAS
THE ACTUAL KING? #3
FROM UPN BOARD
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 114
(7/6/01 9:02:38 pm)
What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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Original post:
Fehr is Fehr, Owl and myself have began speculating as to the possibilty of Michael actually being the king & not Max. I must honestly say that the mere thought of it just boggles my mind. With a little contemplation, if the characters were reversed, just think of how many questions could be answered.
This is our third thread continuing the speculation of Michael as king. We are in the middle of discussing the episode Blood Brother. Please take the time to read the previous 2 threads. A lot of interesting posts were made.
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 560
(7/6/01 9:12:16 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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Alright Cam!!! A brand new thread for us to fill up.
I guess I just got the answer to one of my questions.
Here's the link back to the old thread.....
pub57.ezboard.com/fupn11frm3.showMessageRange?topicID=313.topic&start=1&stop=25
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 117
(7/6/01 9:33:12 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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Ferh is Ferh...I was going to send you an email concerning your other questions about the wedding and whatnot. CRAZY!...Where are your observations on "Blood Brother"? Hmmmm? "Heat Wave" is next. Are you ready? I can get my whip out if you need some motivation.
Jenniferh...I believe it was you that posted the implied NC-17 action of the wishful use of Brenden's tongue. Shame on you girl! (hee hee hee)
Rachishere
Registered User
Posts: 67
(7/6/01 9:54:13 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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I am so glad it is the weekend.
Okay, Blood Brothers... I agree with everything that was said in a previous post. I can't remember who said it. Maybe Jennifehr?
Rachishere
Registered User
Posts: 68
(7/6/01 9:57:20 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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Michael taking charge...
Y'all should have never taught me how to do this.
Image courtesy of Crashdown.com
Arista Hanson
Registered User
Posts: 243
(7/6/01 10:06:33 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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If Michael was king, then the pod squad might actually win the war!
Michael actually knows how to get things done, take 285 South for example. And he actually uses some common sense(not all the time I'll admitt), I was watching Ask Not again and Michael said that they should just steal that alien thing, Max's response was it's too dangerous, well first of all it's more dangerous to leave alien technology with a human let alone a suspected enemy and second they're already in danger that's not going to put them any more danger.
Also later in Ask Not although I agree with Max stopping Michael and Isabel from killing Brodey, I don't agree with how he did it. He should have explain it to them. Part of being a good king is getting people to listen to them, if Max is going to make decisions with out explaining them or listening to there opinions then there not going to listen to him and go do there own thing and that's how they'll lose the war no team work.
~Arista~
~Arista~
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 312
(7/7/01 12:38:36 am)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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Camlaw! I just love that tongue!!! *big sigh!*
Rachishere you can never post too much eye candy!!
Michael has more power than he realizes... and as someone posted in an earlier thread that could be a clue to the fact that Michael is King. Because the King gives all his dirty work to his second in command... and although he is trying and doing what he can, Michael is learning the lessons he would have already learned as the second. He knows what he needs to do... and as we have seen in S2, Michael is growing and learning.. and I just love him!!!
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 120
(7/7/01 8:11:28 am)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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I was wondering when someone was going to post a pic in here.
I am about to head off to work so I wanted to post a little something before I go. I plan to post on Heat Wave tonight. I have been waiting on Ferh is Ferh, but she is a little busy these days, like we all have been. So I will go ahead and hope she catches up.
I was a little worried that we would not have enough time to discuss each episode from both seasons before the new season began. But since I am hearing Oct as a season premier date (sigh ), I am not so worried anymore. Maybe we will make it up to 10 parts of this thread by then.
Have a good day my fellow Roswellians! Get ready for the Heat Wave discussion. And please stay out of trouble. That means you JENNIFERH!
brew22
Unregistered User
(7/7/01 10:26:43 am)
hubba hubba!
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that there is definitely the best picture yet!
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 572
(7/7/01 10:54:09 am)
Catching up.............
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Good morning peeps.
I have a Roswell lunch today, and about ten years worth of housework and laundry to catch up on..........then I hope to catch up to you guys. I have been so busy, it makes my head spin.
I really do have all my notes, just getting it on here seems to be my drawback. I really love that you are forging ahead, because alot of your comments make me see or realize things I missed.
So wish me luck on completing my chores, and hopefully I will post so much tonight and tomorrow you will be sick of it!
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Rachishere
Registered User
Posts: 69
(7/7/01 9:25:14 pm)
Re: Catching up.............
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Heatwave! I love this ep. I am excited to see what everyone has to say about it.
I would comment on it, but I usually just fastforward to the M&M scenes.
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 326
(7/7/01 9:28:54 pm)
Re: Trouble? Who me?
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Cam Are you imlpying that I would be on the look out for trouble??? You are so right!!! It's no fun to be good! And darn't I am finally old enough not to have to answer to anyone (as long as they don't find out!) so trouble is the thing I want to be into!!!
Heat Wave one of my faves!!! Love the eraser rooms scenes... I will watch and try to post serious, intelligent musings on our King!!!
And yes I had to post the pic!!! He's so... well you all know!
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 122
(7/10/01 8:26:55 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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Sorry for my lack of posts lately. I am trying to head off the flu. I feel myself coming down with it and the last thing anyone wants in the summer time (especially in TX) is the flu. I am so run down and beginning to run a fever. Kind of coincidental since we are suppose to be taking about "HEAT WAVE". Okay, so the fever is making me a little loopy. Anyway, as soon as I am better I will be back to post.
Rachishere
Registered User
Posts: 73
(7/10/01 8:33:29 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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Hi Cam, sorry you feel bad. Hope you start feeling better soon.
Fehr? Are you still around? I saw your name on the Memphis Party. I signed up, too. I just live about 20 minutes from Memphis.
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 656
(7/10/01 9:37:11 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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Oh Cam I am so sorry you are feeling poorly. Running a fever in the summer sucks. Rest, drink fluids, and watch Roswell til you feel better.
Rash you are in Tennesee????? I had no idea you were so close. I'm in Virginia. Is it okay to call you Rash? Rachishere is long. But if you don't want me to, I won't.
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Edited by: Fehr is Fehr at: 7/10/01 9:39:05 pm
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 368
(7/10/01 10:40:00 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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Poor Poor Cam... Here have a dose of Mikey G! A cure all for what ever ails ya!
Rachishere
Registered User
Posts: 74
(7/10/01 11:19:40 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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Sure, I answer to a lot of things. Rach, Rachael, dumb@$$, it's all good.
Forgot to add, I live in Bartlett, TN. Or did I say that in my last post?
Edited by: Rachishere at: 7/10/01 11:22:11 pm
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 673
(7/11/01 7:28:37 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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Well I'll call you Rach, cuz rash sounds like you got something wrong with your skin. When is the Memphis party? Or have they even set a date yet?
Jen did you look for Mars??????
Okay I am going to LEAP ahead, but I just posted this pic on another thread and well.........
Why is there a line from Max's pod to Michael's? And from Tess's pod to Isabel's?
??????????????????????????????????????????????
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Rachishere
Registered User
Posts: 75
(7/11/01 7:35:46 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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They just said summer of 2002 and for some reason I haven't been able to get FF to come up all evening.
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 674
(7/11/01 7:58:16 pm)
This is for Cam
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Michael and Max are very concerned about you.........
Michael: Max do something. Cam is sick.
Max: Don't worry, I'll take care of her.
I hope this works. I'm worried sick.
Cam? Cam you've got to look at me......
I have to heal you. Michael is worried sick about you.
I know Max can do it. If anyone can do it Max can.
I know everything is gonna be fine.
Cam HAS just got to be alright.
Max? Max what's going on?
What are you laughing about?
Quit fooling around! Open the door....
Michael she's okay, and she was an adorable baby.
I swear when I get in there I'm gonna kick your a**...............
****************************************************
Feel better Cam! We miss you!
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Edited by: Fehr is Fehr at: 7/11/01 8:43:57 pm
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 675
(7/11/01 8:02:59 pm)
Rach
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Summer of 2002 works for me. Kinda a long way off......
All good things to those who wait, right?
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Page2
brew22
Unregistered User
(7/11/01 8:36:21 pm)
sicky
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feel better cam!!
fehr is fehr, you're a laugh riot! i was cracking up at that last post!
Rachishere
Registered User
Posts: 76
(7/11/01 9:54:00 pm)
Re: Waiting
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I've never been good at waiting. Waiting for the new season of Roswell is driving me crazy.
I know that is the surprise smilie, but it looks like it could be a crazy smilie, too.
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 372
(7/11/01 10:00:35 pm)
Re: Dr. Love....
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Fehr that was great!!! Cam that has got to make you feel much better!! I know if I had those two making me better I'd be geting sick an awful lot!!! Do they make house calls?!!!
brew22
Unregistered User
(7/12/01 5:49:06 am)
dr. love!
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jennifehr! you're funny!
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 123
(7/13/01 9:27:37 pm)
What if Micahel was the actual king?
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Hello All! I am sick. I have the beginning stages of the flu. We have a nasty case of it going around at work and I am fighting it every step of the way. I have very little energy and everything hurts. My throat is sore, I am crankier than usual and my patience has become non-existent. This is the first opportunity I have had to come post and read threads. I LOVE the doctor scene you played for me Ferh is Ferh! You know just what kind of medicine a woman needs.
"HEAT WAVE"....I am going to look over my stuff again then post on it a little later. I am behind on all my thread reading. I HATE being sick.
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 725
(7/13/01 9:32:54 pm)
Re: What if Micahel was the actual king?
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Oh Cam! I hate you being sick too. I am tired and cranky, but it has nothing to do with being sick. Just sick and tired of being a woman. Well, at least today. Hope you get to feeling better. Heat Wave should help some.
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 124
(7/13/01 10:28:26 pm)
What if Michael was the actual king?
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HEAT WAVE...Let me start off by saying that I love this episode. Man that Michael is sexy. SEXY!!!!! In my feverish state I accidently posted this before I was ready to. So now I have to edit it. ANYWAY...
The episode begins with Michael & Maria being discovered making out in the Crashdown cafe.
MICHAEL: I just figured, go for it, you know? I don't know what I was thinkin'.
MAX: You know, I just thought we had guidelines about this. We agreed to discuss before we acted on any...you know, urges.
MICHAEL: Well, I hate to tell you this, Max, but when i have urges, you're not exactly the first person I think about.
MAX: Yeah, I realize that. But the point is, we can't let things spin out of control. I mean, sure, it starts as a kiss...
MICHAEL: It's more than that.
MAX: How much more?
MICHAEL: I don't know, Max. It feels so wrong, but it feels so good.
I bet it does honey. Mmmm, mmmm, mmmm. Anyway, Liz starts talking to Maria and making Maria think that these little make out sessions are not enough. There should be talking and whatnot. FORGET THAT! Stick with the groping.
MAX: What's wrong? Maria?
MICHAEL: It has gotten complicated. Suddenly, she wants to know where I'm going after school. She wants to have conversations. She wants to talk about my feelings. And now, she wants to go to a party together.
MAX: That thing at the old soap factory?
MICHAEL: Right. Like suddenly the eraser room's not enough. I can't let this become a public thing. I mean, she should know that. But all week long I've had this weird feeling. Like I was gonna hurt her or something. That just being who I am is gonna hurt her.
Then later on at the soap factory party...
MARIA: You've been ignoring me the whole night. Look, I'm not some pollyanna, ok? I don't think what we have is true love. I don't know what we have. I just...I don't understand why you have to avoid me. It hurts, that's all.
(Michael is silent)
MARIA: Fine. Good-bye.
(Maria turns to leave)
MICHAEL: I just don't really do this.
MARIA: Don't do what?
MICHAEL: Get intense like this.
MARIA: I'm not getting intense.
MICHAEL: Yes, you are.
MARIA: Well, you got pretty intense the other night at the Crashdown.
MICHAEL: Sorry, I can't get this involved. I'm alone, and that's the way it's gotta be. Maybe we should've never started this.
Which we all know is inaccurate. Michael thought he was a loner and could resist Maria, but that was never the case.
So what does this episode have to do with Michael being the king? Self indulgence that soon gives way to self sacrifice. Michael was willing to put the needs of his "knowledge of something bigger" before his personal desires. Now we all know that later on down the line he cannot be without Maria, but at this moment he knew she was not just a fling. He had no way to handle the feelings and responsibilities at this time to be involve with Maria. So he did the only thing he knew to do to protect her, and that was to let her go. How many stories have been written and told about a king loving someone so deeply and having to give them up for a greater purpose? He shows selflessness, integrity, passion and strength. All of the quailities a leader should possess.
BALANCE is the next episode. I honestly cannot remember what this episode is about. Must be the Niquil. Until then my fellow Roswellians....tell me your thoughts on HEAT WAVE!
Edited by: Camlaw at: 7/15/01 8:21:40 am
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 394
(7/14/01 12:26:18 am)
Re: What if Micahel was the actual king?
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Okay Cam I have to be honest... it's late and I am sleepy and right now the only thoughts I have about Heat Wave are...... very hot make out scenes.. The first one in the eraser room, when Maria's wearing the dress.. ahh to be kissed like that by him!!! I am so envious!
Okay this in no way relates to the topic but you asked for my thoughts!! I gave em to you!!
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 125
(7/14/01 8:47:45 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Jenniferh...I think of the romance and not necessarily the passion. OK. I lied. I think about the passion too. I wish someone would yank me into the eraser room and plant one of those space boy love marks on my neck...Man is it ever hot in here....
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 737
(7/14/01 10:48:01 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 406
(7/14/01 11:52:26 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Cam And you told me you were quiet!!! Space boy lov marks!! OMG! I love it... and I would love to be on the recieving end also!!! Only a King can create such passion!!
"Butterfly, if you really know who I am, tell me if you have ever seen anyone like me. Tell me which way I must go to find them.Where have they gone?"
Rachishere
Registered User
Posts: 79
(7/15/01 11:53:49 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Hey Cam, I hope you're feeling better.
Balance, (sorry, it's late and the spelling just doesn't look right, but I'm too lazy right now to look it up) is the one where Michael is sick.
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 411
(7/16/01 12:00:10 am)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Here's our King in Balance. What a man!!
"Butterfly, if you really know who I am, tell me if you have ever seen anyone like me. Tell me which way I must go to find them.Where have they gone?"
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 748
(7/16/01 8:41:40 am)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Kerplunk.........the sound I make falling off my chair.
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Camlaw
Unregistered User
(7/17/01 11:13:00 pm)
What if Michael was the actual king?
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Balance...I think this post is going to be in 2 parts. There is so much that happens in this episode that I do not want to leave anything out. So let us begin...
Michael discovers a drawing in Max's notebook that looks familiar to him. When he questions Max about it, Max immediately tells Michael that they will discuss the drawing some place else. Michael then asks what Max is keeping from him. Later on in Max's room, Max explains the origins of this drawing. It was something he drew from memory of cave drawings he & Liz discovered when they visited Riverdog at the Indian Reservation. Max tries to minimize the importance of the drawing, but Isabel says it has to have meaning if they all recognize it. Michael is not amused. He wants to know what Max's intentions were. Why did Max keep this discovery from them & how long was he planning on keeping it a secret? Max begins trying to justify his reasons but Michael will not buy it. Michael accuses Max of trusting Liz over Michael. Isabel begins to defend Max but then starts siding with Michael when Max starts saying that Michael would haved jumped to some wild conclusion and done something crazy without telling anyone.
So once Max leaves for a date with Liz, Michael takes off to find answers on his own. He does not trust Max completely and no longer wants to be kept in the dark by Max. So off to the reservation Michael goes. He gets into a little trouble when he gets there, but I will comment on that in "Balance" part 2.
So my observations on this half of the episode bring 2 words to mind POWER STRUGGLE. Michael is confused about his relationships. He is not sure if he & Maria are broken up. He is not sure of his relationship with Max. Does Max trust him? So to me he challenges and rebels. Kind of like a spoiled adolescent king. I think he feels disrespected by Max. Like Max considers him inferior and not worthy of any knowledge they may come across. It brings to mind the possibilty of a power struggle on their home planet. Maybe the downfall of the royalty was not necessarily a bad ruler, but too many people trying to rule at once and causing havoc on a nation. Kind of a one-up manship if you will. Knowledge is power and maybe the royal four had a problem with unity. They were so busy trying to be the leader that instead of joining together to make their rule strong, they tried ruling individually and made it weak. Just a thought that comes to mind.
I will post on the second half of Balance tomorrow. Until then, tell me your thoughts.
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 437
(7/17/01 11:46:51 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Cam I promise to post an insightful message tomorrow!!
"Butterfly, if you really know who I am, tell me if you have ever seen anyone like me. Tell me which way I must go to find them.Where have they gone?"
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 775
(7/18/01 12:13:18 am)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Me too.
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 127
(7/18/01 10:11:02 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Balance (part 2)...We left off with Michael going to the Indian reservation on his own looking for answers. He bully's his way into a meditation tent where he is unknowingly tested by Riverdog. Micheal leaves the tent just thinking the smoke is unbearable. He returns to Roswell with no answers and extremely ill. He goes to Max for help. Max inturn goes to Liz for help since he knows her parents are out of town & they can all attend to Michael there without the suspicion of thier parents. In Michael's feverish state he begins to chant something from the encounter at the meditation tent. Max pleads with Michael to tell him how he can help Micheal. Micheal opens his casted over eyes and murmurs Riverdog. So Liz & Max race to the reservation seeking help. An insightful conversation ensues...
MAX: I remember the first time I saw Michael. It was in the desert the night we first came out of the pods. The sky was bright with stars and this full moon. Isabel and I found each other first. We didn't know how to speak, but we could communicate anyway. We walked for a while, but we could both feel someone else.
LIZ: Michael.
MAX: He said he saw us, but that he was afraid. So he just watched us for a long time. When he finally revealed himself, he was standing on this rock. Just like you'd expect from Michael. "Here I am. Deal with me." He said it was the hardest thing he's ever had to do...to trust us.
LIZ: So, um, how did you guys end up getting separated?
MAX: We all saw the headlights at the same time. Isabel took my hand. We knew we'd be safe as long as we stayed together. I held my hand out for Michael. I knew he wanted to. He just wouldn't take it. So we just looked at each other for a long time. Wouldn't see him again for 3 years. Isabel would cry every night, wondering where he was.
Michael begins having visions while he is in his unconscious state. He is standing next to the alien symbols which are drawn on the ground around him. Michael looks up and sees a constellation. Meanwhile Liz & Max find Riverdog and he instructs them to bring Micheal back to the reservation before it is too late.
RIVER DOG: Man who lived in this cave when I was a boy was not like us. Some of the elders believed he was an evil spirit, so they decided to test him. He was invited into the sweat, just like I invited your friend. His reaction was quick and severe. Within a minute, his eyes were white, and he developed a fever.
MAX: Just like Michael.
RIVER DOG: Only it took the symptoms longer to show up in your friend. That's why I dismissed him at first. But when you told me he was sick, I knew he was another visitor.
MARIA: That's an interesting way to put it.
RIVER DOG: Well, that's what he called himself. In my language, the word is "nasedo". So that's what I called him.
ISABEL: And you knew Nasedo well?
RIVER DOG: I saved his life. After the sweat, he ran out into the desert. And we were told not to follow him. But I was a boy, and I didn't listen. I found him in this cave, dying. He had to trust me with his secret so that I could heal him.
MAX: And now you'll do the same thing to heal Michael?
RIVER DOG: I'll try, but I'll need the help of all of you.
So the enitre gang, minus Liz, perform a healing ritual to try and save Michael who by this time is in a cocoon looking web.
(Everyone starts to chant softly. We see Michael wake up in another place and each of the participants in the ritual walk up to him and greets him. Maria kisses him. We see images of Max, Michael, and Isabel when they were in the desert. Max reaches out his hand to Michael who is hesitant to take it. In the end, Michael, Max, and Isabel walk away hand-in-hand. Back in the cave, Michael wakes up and pulls the webbing off of himself.)
MAX: You all right?
MICHAEL: I went someplace, Max, and I saw things.
MAX: But you came back. For good this time.
MICHAEL: Yeah, I came back.
(Max hugs Michael)
MICHAEL: Thank you, Maxwell. No more running. No matter what. Give me your rocks.
(Michael takes the alien rocks from each of the people who participated in the ritual. He walks over to the drawings that the 4th alien drew on the wall and inserts rocks at various places. After inserting the 5th rock, Michael steps back and the rocks slowly glow brighter and brighter, revealing a constellation of where the aliens are from)
MICHAEL: It's a map.
So what in this synopsis proves Michael to be the king? Well, the description of Michael as a boy, the visions he incurs while unconscious, the realization he has when he finally comes to and reveals the meaning behind the cave drawings and the importance of the healing stones inside the drawings.
As a boy he was hesitant to reveal himself to Max & Isabel. He watched them for a long time before he finally stood up & made them take notice. He choose to finally trust them which was very hard for him to do. A royal figure has a hard time trusting outsiders and is often very guarded. But once you reach his inner circle you are there. Yet we all know Micheal is rebellous in his own regard. He chooses to follow his impulses instead of being methodical in his approach. And it is that impulsive side that attracts me to his character. ANYWAY...
The visions he incurs shows me insight. Insight into the true meaning of his roll as the true leader. The realization that he cannot be an effective ruler alone. That he must embrace the needs he has for others including the Human League. Plus he seems to always have these visions that the others are unable to have. To me that proves he is more than just a second in command. Why doesn't Max get visions? Well, visions not related to Liz?
It appears things come across to Micheal more than to the others. The vision from the key which brought the gang to the Dome Home in Texas. The visions in this episode which reveal the meaning to the cave drawings as well as introduces the benefits of the healing stones. To me he is the actual leader because he possess the knowledge that the others do not. In later episodes he discovers more about their origins. But I am skipping ahead.
To sum it up (finally), Michael is king...because. The end.
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 788
(7/18/01 11:51:29 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Camlaw, very good! I love this ep. Cry everytime I watch it. I am going to watch it right now!!! Seriously. Then I'll be back. I will say that I drew some different things from this episode, as far as Max is concerned. I felt this ep, almost more than any other shows Max as the one Michael ultimately has to trust with his life. That Max is his guardian of sorts. That sometimes it seems Max is making decisions but it is really Max deciding what is best for Michael, and how to best serve and protect him by keeping certain things from him........
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 446
(7/19/01 5:34:49 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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You know you people amaze me with your posts... and i would like to say I have an intelligent post but, that would be a lie... so I won't say it. I just have too much on my mind to think of anything logical right now... so you will have to just enjoy the visuals.. I like pictures.... especially of the King.
"Butterfly, if you really know who I am, tell me if you have ever seen anyone like me. Tell me which way I must go to find them.Where have they gone?"
Page 3
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 131
(7/19/01 8:24:32 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Ferh is Ferh...I look forward to reading your observations on this episode. I am dying to have a lengthy discussion on this topic. Our schedules have been so hectic this summer that we have not been able to really focus on this thread. Hopefully in the upcoming weeks things will die down some and allow us to concentrate on this topic like we yearn to.
Jenniferh...Pictures are most welcome. ANYTIME. Besides your insights are most welcome. Please do not think your posts are unintelligent. I LOVE them all.
Shilohaura
Registered User
Posts: 90
(7/20/01 8:05:26 am)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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I just finished watching that episode! I do have one question, though. Later, in S2, when Tess is helping Max remember her being left behind in her pod, it shows Michael & Isabel waiting for Max to leave the cave with them - he's unsure about leaving "little Tess" behind. Michael goes out of the cave first, but they are all actually leaving together. Now I can buy that Michael then separated & went his own way, but wouldn't Max & Iz automatically KNOW it was him watching them? Or do you think this was Tess' mind-warp version of what happened? If so, wouldn't Max have questioned her about the difference in his original memories and what she was now telling him? I know that in the books, the 3 left the cave together - Michael used to sleep there, even as a small child - when things got rough for him. In the books, all 3 remembered where the cave was from day one! It's where they revealed themselves to the humans, in a rainbow of auras & unearthly, beautiful music tones! (Really neat visual in the book - wish they'd work it into the series!)
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 132
(7/20/01 6:54:05 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Good observation Shilohaura. I was wondering the same thing when I was re-reading the transcript. (I have not gotten the episodes on tape....yet ) I was wondering about that contradiction and wonder if the writer's caught their error as well. Maybe it was a mind warp. Nothing Tess was involved in makes me beleive it 100 % anyway.
I have not been fortunate enough to read the book series. Maybe someday soon I will find the time to.
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 453
(7/20/01 6:55:03 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Shilohaura I liked the way the aliens revealed themselves in the book too... as for your observations, that definitely brings up new questions... because obviously we can't believe anything Tess has said or done.... Well I need to ponder that for awhile!
"Butterfly, if you really know who I am, tell me if you have ever seen anyone like me. Tell me which way I must go to find them.Where have they gone?"
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 136
(7/21/01 3:14:59 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Jenniferh...you got offline so fast earlier that I could praise you like I wanted to on your post on the "Episode" thread. So I decided since this is one of your favorites spots, I'd praise you here. I LOVE your insight into the relationship between our king Michael and his queen Maria. I hope my addition was moderately decent.
ANYWAY, as for our king, the next episode is TOY HOUSE . I must say the moments between Michael & Maria are wonderful as usual. Just a few key points to point out regarding the aspects proving Michael as King. So until then, let us continue postng on Balance.
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 466
(7/21/01 6:26:24 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Camlaw thank you for your praise.... you are too kind!! And as for you addition it was just wonderful also! We have some talented peeps hanging out here!!
Toy House I love it.... Maria's expressions are so cute! She just seems so young in the 1st season!!! I will post in regards to the eppy!!!
"Butterfly, if you really know who I am, tell me if you have ever seen anyone like me. Tell me which way I must go to find them.Where have they gone?"
Eponine24601
Registered User
Posts: 24
(7/21/01 6:49:05 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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If Michael was the actual king I think we'd all be in a lot of trouble.........
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 812
(7/22/01 3:04:45 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Eponine..............is Max a better choice??? I don't think so. And anyway it isn't about what would be better, it's about what is.................
As Nesado once said, "Be very careful not to confuse, what you want to be true, with what really is true."
Will be back online later this evening.
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Edited by: Fehr is Fehr at: 7/22/01 3:06:18 pm
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 478
(7/22/01 11:31:12 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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It's taken me some time to be comfortable with this topic.. but I have read and seen so much. Michael has qualities that only a king could possess.. and Max well besides being level headed and stuff... what is there... where's the passion? Now MikeyG, he's got passion!!!!
"Butterfly, if you really know who I am, tell me if you have ever seen anyone like me. Tell me which way I must go to find them.Where have they gone?"
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 145
(7/23/01 8:54:19 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Ok gang. I promised to post on TOY HOUSE tonight, so let me get my notes together and then post a little later.
Jenniferh I found your hesitation to embrace this topic rather interesting. After questioning you off the boards I can understand your apprehension. BUT, do not let the cloudy past of the pod squad's lives prevent you from looking at the politics of it all. We do not know anything of their previous lives to be absolute fact. That is why I dove right into this topic. I let the writers sort of imply the truth to me instead of trying to uncover it for myself.
ANYWAY...I will be back in a few with my observations of TOY HOUSE. Until then...
Rachishere
Registered User
Posts: 91
(7/23/01 8:58:17 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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You said it, sister. He's got passion running out his ears.
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 146
(7/23/01 10:06:04 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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TOY HOUSE...Let me start off by saying, that the Michael & Maria relationship just makes me smile. I love to see the vulnerabilty of Michael when it comes to Maria. He sort of follows her around, trying to make conversation and still have some sort of connection to her. And of course she does not cling to it. She walks away, she returns his attempts with disdain and anger, until he questions what the problem is. He is bothered by her distance from him. And I love to see the typical roles reversed. Usually it is the girl chasing the guy after they have broken up. I applaud the tough guy chasing the carefree girl. And her not being so easy to embrace him again. BUT ANYWAY...I could talk about these two for hours. So I will stop for now and get to the topic at hand.
The episode is one concerning Max & Isabel's mother questioning the true nature of Max, and the bickering among the 3 as to what to do to stop her constant probing.
MICHAEL: You used your powers in front of your mother? That is not fine.
MAX: Michael, I'm handling it, all right?
MICHAEL: Well, I hope so, because dealing with frick and frack over there is one thing, but we can't bring adults into this and expect them to handle it. Adults are the enemy, Max. Remember that.
MAX: Michael, you say everyone is the enemy.
MICHAEL: They are.
Isabel wants to tell her mother the truth. Max & Michael strongly disagree and Isabel challenges Max's authority.
ISABEL: Mom knows something.
MAX: What?
ISABEL: She was asking all these questions about you. She said you had secrets.
MAX: She said that?
ISABEL: Yeah. She was watching this video of us from when we were kids.
MAX: But she always watches videos when dad goes away. She gets sentimental.
ISABEL: No. It was like she was looking for something. We have to deal with this, Max.
MAX: Deal with it how?
ISABEL: Look, I know that we agreed never to tell her, but--
MICHAEL: But what? If your mom finds out about us, our lives are a ticking bomb. It'd only be a matter of time before she told the wrong person.
MAX: Michael, relax. No one's telling anyone anything.
Max & Isabel's mother begins searching through one of her videotapes of them as kids. She replays this scene regarding Max & a bird he healed. She questions Max relentlessly until he storms out of the house and meets up with the others to discuss the situation further.
(Max, Michael, and Isabel meet at one of their special places, a quarry area, to discuss what to do)
MICHAEL: You healed a pigeon. Great. Now you're Dr. Dolittle.
MAX: Michael, I was 6. I didn't even know I had powers yet. It just happened.
MICHAEL: So what's the plan?
MAX: That's what we're here for...to discuss it.
MICHAEL: Well, the first thing is obvious. We get that videotape and we destroy it. All right, after that, it's her word against ours.
ISABEL: Her word against ours? Michael, she's our mother.
MICHAEL: She's not your mother. She's not related to you in any way. Know that.
ISABEL: But if there's any adult that we can trust, it's her.
MICHAEL: What, are you suggesting we tell her?
MAX: No, she isn't.
ISABEL: Max, would you let me speak for myself, please?
MAX: Look, Isabel...
ISABEL: No, look. Maybe it'll help us out one day to have an adult on our side.
MICHAEL: Here's the problem...when you tell her, she's not gonna be on your side. Maybe she loves you now, but there's no such thing as unconditional love.
ISABEL: Michael, maybe you really don't understand, but she does love us. It is unconditional.
MICHAEL: Are you sure about that?
MAX: Isabel, we are not telling her, all right? Stop it.
ISABEL: Stop speaking to me like that.
MAX: Like what?
ISABEL: Like you're the final word on everything.
MAX: I didn't say I was!
ISABEL: Listen to yourself!
MAX: Michael's right. She's not our mother. We are alone here. We always will be. Stop pretending it's different.
ISABEL: Max, don't you see what's happening? We're losing her. We're losing our mother. I can't lose her. I need her.
MAX: We're not telling her, Isabel. That is final.
(Isabel walks off and Max throws a rock into the water in frustration)
Michael's scenes in this episode revolve mainly around Maria. But this is a king thread so I am not going to discuss the M&M relationship. Well, not much anyway. Michael's ability to distance himself from his emotions makes me think of leader. Making the tough decisions despite what your heart says. He loves Maria. It is obvious by the way he follows her around the school. The fact that he acknowledges her presence as a distraction, shows me that he is capable of making the tough, not so popular descisions. He can sacrifice his individual happiness for the greater good.
Then there is his unemotional stance when it comes to Max's mother. Destroy the tape, tell her nothing, her word against theirs. Granted he has no emotional attachment to thier mother, so the idea was not a difficult one for him. But he has the bravery to speak his mind, no matter how angry or upset he was going to make the others. He has the ability to see things as cut & dry when the other two are so clouded by thier emotions.
Is he a good leader? At times. He possesses many of the qualities to be an effective leader, but lacks some of the ones to make him a great one. I think he is learning though that it takes the right balance of passion and keen decisiveness to be that great leader. And as the show progresses, I think we can prove that he is slowly growing into that persona.
So tell me your thoughts...
Shilohaura
Registered User
Posts: 108
(7/23/01 10:24:47 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Sorry, Camlaw. I just recently watched Toy House, too. But I didn't see much Michael as King stuff in it. It seemed more like he was desperate to convince Max & Iz that they had to keep the secret. I saw more "King" in Max - he seemed to really want to tell Mom as badly as Iz did, but listened to Michael's warnings and made a decision based not on his heart - I feel a true case of putting aside one's true desires for the welfare of the whole. I felt he at least wanted to believe Iz about Mom's love being unconditional, but decided not to take any chances. A well thought out decision rather than an impulsive one. In a way, her love DID prove to be unconditional. She accepted Max' expression of love to her in the end while honoring his request not to ask anymore questions - that his secret wasn't a bad thing - she trusted him.
I can see many instances where there are hints that Michael could be King, but gotta say I didn't see it in this episode.
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 148
(7/23/01 10:37:31 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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WHAT?! You do not agree with me Shilohaura? BOOT! Get off this thread! JUST KIDDING.
I do not expect everyone to agree with me and I love a good debate. You bring up some excellent points. I guess it all boils down to interpretation and what you are willing to see. Maybe I am stretching the scenes to fit my idea of what Michael should be. Then again, maybe you see things the way the writers are wanting you to see them, but not as they truly are. The scene where Isabel tells Max she does not like him acting like he has the final word in all the decisions struck me. Is this foreshadowing? Or am I just reading things into this small comment? Sometimes it is the most insignificant instances that hold the most meaning. Let me ponder this aspect some more and post tomorrow.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts Shilohaura.
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 816
(7/24/01 9:36:02 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Hello guys.
Now the baby is here, so I don't have to worry about that anymore. The next thing on the agenda is getting my daughter strong enough to leave the hospital. A nine pound baby for someone who wore a size 3 pre-pregancy is pretty traumatic. Then of course the first couple of weeks she is home I will be over there alot to help out.
Hopefully after that my life will calm down and I can get back to the business of some serious posting!!! I will probably be flyby posting til then.
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Rachishere
Registered User
Posts: 94
(7/24/01 11:18:11 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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If you plan on babysitting alot, post while the baby is asleep. Isn't that what they tell new moms? Sleep when the baby sleeps?
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 490
(7/24/01 11:42:45 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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As everyone knows my posts tend to lean towards my obsession with MikeyG and his hands.... but I told Cam I would post something intelligent and by golly I intend to do just that!!
I watched Toy House for oh I would say the 20th time.. and this time I paid close attention to signs of Michael's kingliness. I suppose I found a few.. Here are my observations..
Michael seems to want to be in control to a certain extent. He wants to fix things, problems, napkin holders etc., How he chooses to do that varies... usually it's a get rid of it attitude, like with the videotape... or just say no... like with involving Diane... or make it all better by himself with his own hands for Maria... (cause he loves her!!).. And usually it's the leader who feels the need to make things right for those around him..
He doesn't understand Isabel's desire to tell her mom and refuses to believe in unconditional love.. this could be due to his horrible life on Earth and to his past... The king is loved for what he is. a king.. not who he may be beneath the title.
He takes offense to the fact that Maria failed with the project he made... it was perfect in his eyes.. so how could anyone not like it. To his people a King is perfect(most the time) and therefore would never fail at anything...
Am I doing good Cam?... That's it though. My brain is dizzy!!! ...
Oh yeah... the thing I love most about this epy... not kingly related.. all M/M... It is the first time Michael admits to being affected emotionally by another person.. Maria makes him feel human!! Awww!!
That's it!!
"I wish more things had made her cry. And I wish I could swum just once in the sea of her mermaid tears, where all the rockstars should've drowned." "RAVE" Francesca Lia Block
Rachishere
Registered User
Posts: 96
(7/25/01 5:39:27 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Hey, I post this over on the magazine and television thread, but I just wanted to let everyone know the Maj. is going to be on Craig Kilborn Thursday night. At least that's what they are saying on FF.
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 823
(7/27/01 1:31:41 am)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king?
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Hi Rach, Jen and Cam.
Well my life is still in almost total chaos.
I miss you guys and hope everything around here gets straightened out so my life can go back to being somewhat peaceful.
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
msbaby
Unregistered User
(7/27/01 3:59:56 am)
Michael as King???
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I will not entertain this thought. I will not permit it to invade my space. Michael does not have leadership qualities. He is hot-headed (some might use the word passionate, Humph!), rash, too emotional, right-brained,anal retentive and lacking in other qualities it takes to be a leader. Just watch his behavior in the episode where he suggests killing Brody because he feels Brody is (not might be) a skin. Max pondered the situation, sought advice and as usual wanted to think things through. I also think Michael used to always challenge Max's authority. I do not want to think about that because my Max has been betrayed enough by the people he trusted. Michael belongs in Dodge City with all the other "shoot-em up" types. Although I love Michael and am pleased with his evolution, I think Max is the much better choice. If the roles were reversed, I couldn't see Max as a warrior. Thanks for accepting my difference of opinion.
Page 4
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 510
(7/27/01 10:47:01 am)
Re: Michael as King???
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msbaby.. yes Michael did want to kill brody... but in Departure Max wanted to kill Leanna because he assumed she was a skin.... I think we could list pros and cons for both boys as to why they should or should not be king.... each has qualities that are beneficial as well as unfavorable... it's all in good fun! And a King is usually irrational... which is why he has a second in command.. to give him another perspective on things... and I too have a hard time seeing Max in a warrior type role.. he's just to calm.... either way I love em both and just enjoy seeing other possibilities!
"I wish more things had made her cry. And I wish I could have swum just once in the sea of her mermaid tears, where all the rockstars should've drowned." "RAVE" Francesca Lia Block
msbaby
Unregistered User
(7/27/01 2:17:59 pm)
Kings and Things
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Max and Michael were both contemplating killing someone they feared would bring harm to the group. Let's take a closer look. Max was visibly hesitant about killing Leanna. He "hemmed and hawed' about it, but eventually decided to do it. Michael on the other hand immediately thought killing brody was his only recours. He didn't have a second thought about it. And he had the nerve to attempt to put his idea to a vote, trying to recruit Iz to his side. Bottom line...I love them both,
too. The writers better not even try introducing this thought into the storyline. I am already ahving a hard time dealing with my two level-headed, honors students committing crime sof violence. It is so out of character for them.
Rachishere
Registered User
Posts: 97
(7/28/01 2:23:39 am)
Re: Kings and Things
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Everyone's opinion is welcome, but, and I could be wrong about this, but I believe it was Isabel who made the suggestion to kill Brody. Yes, Michael went along with her and they both convienced Max. I will go back and check my tapes, but I seem to remember Isabel saying they had to kill him and Michael looking upset about this, because of the remorse he had for killing Agent Pierce.
Arista Hanson
Registered User
Posts: 322
(7/28/01 2:48:53 am)
Re: Kings and Things
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Well Ask Not also shows how Max doesn't give a damn about his people. A good king as to be able to put what's good for his good people above himself, a good king needs to look at the big picture even if that picture doesn't include, his soul-mate ( whatever ). Max is unable to do this.
Now some might argue that neither could Michael, but I think that if they were actually going home to save there people and not because Max getting Tess pregnant he would have went.
~Arista~
Edited by: Arista Hanson at: 7/28/01 2:50:46 am
msbaby
Unregistered User
(7/28/01 3:23:47 am)
Kings and Things
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Max not caring for his people and Michael is? They both have been selfish in that respect. They both have been sidetracked from that mission. But let's be clear, since Day One, Michael has been on his quest for one reason; to find his family, his place, his "home." You have to remember, Max did not ask to be King. It was thrusted upon him. For all he knew, he was a teenage "alien." He is learning and growing into his responsibiities as King. It's just like being a teen. One moment you are a child and then you wake up a teen with all the reponsibilities of it. You make mistakes. There is no manual. You have well meaning folks "helping" you get through it. Michael only thinks of himself. He has major issues. You ever ask yourself why he ALWAYS feels the need to take credit for EVERYTHING? There are definite signs of a complex there. Don't get me wrong, Max has issues, too. He is just more apt to think things through. As Max said, "Micheal's not too big on going over his options."
Rachishere, you may be right about Iz suggesting killing Brody, but it doesn't negate the fact that Michael was SO up for it. He just needs more help in managing his behavior. Remember when Max got beat up by those football players? Michael was so upset, pacing back and forth like a cages animal. All he wanted to do was kill them. Then after Max talked with him, he decided revenge was sweeter. After all, Max is always 'cleaning up Michael's messes." Give Mike his props, he has gotten much better.
Arista Hanson
Registered User
Posts: 323
(7/28/01 4:38:03 am)
Re: Kings and Things
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Quote:
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Max not caring for his people and Michael is?
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Yes, I think Michael is or was, but still at some point careed more than Max. Michael was the one who spent the summer learning how to use his powers. Michael was the one was ready to fight and take actions agaist the skins. Michael was the one who at least tried(yeah, he failed, but still, he get's an A for affort) to stay away from Maria, so he can keep his head in the game.
Quote:
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You have to remember, Max did not ask to be King.
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No Max didn't ask to be king, but yet he had no promblem bossing people around. He can't have it both ways.
Quote:
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Michael only thinks of himself.
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That is so not true. Michael has been there for Maria, Max, Isabel, and Liz.
Quote:
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He has major issues...Max has issues, too. He is just more apt to think things through.
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Um...how is Max able to think things through. Was he thinking things though when hit his best friend with an abusive past, treaten his sister with physical force, was he thinking things through when he slept with Tess, or when he was going to kill Leanna and Tess?
No on the whole Michael wanted to kill Brodey thing, well at least he talked it over with Max and Isabel, see there opinions, this shows he actually thought about it, unlike Max who desided to do something with out discussing with anyone. Anyways I don't think he wanted to kill brodey I think he felt he needed to.
~Arista~
Lonnie eyes
Registered User
Posts: 1
(7/28/01 8:19:49 am)
michael as king?
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i think that michael and max have good leadership qualities that in one person would make them a great leader but divided as they are between them both it would make average leaders.
michael- tends not to think things through. goes more with gut feelings.
max-over thinks is often heistant to act and the chance is lost.
strangly toyhouse is one of the few eps were i think max could be a good leader. he talks things over with michael and isabel then makes his decision. one that is not self serving. you can see he wants to tell his mother everything but knows the time isn't right.
Rachishere
Registered User
Posts: 99
(7/28/01 11:31:06 am)
Re: michael as king?
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Isabel is the one who suggests they kill Brody in Ask Not. She says, "This is war and I chose us." Something to that affect. Michael next to her quietly says, " Me, too."
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 825
(7/28/01 11:58:40 am)
Re: michael as king?
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msbaby I would like to point out that this thread is about the clues that more than suggest Michael is the true king. Please go back and read the first and second thread and then post your opinion, because before that you are rushing in with an uniformed opinion.
I am glad someone pointed out it was Iz who suggested they kill Brody, not Michael. And Max did not hesitate where Leanna was concerned. He said he would take care of it and Michael was the one who seemed concerned as to how Max was going to take care of it.
Neither one of them have strong leadership capablities, by themselves. Face it, they are strangers in a strange land, with enemies here on earth who would kill them for what they are, as well as enemies from their home world. On top of that, they are teenagers, not men, yet.
Max has regressed, Michael has progressed. That much is obvious.
Of the three, Michael, Max and Isabel........Michael has always been the one driven to find out everything he could about where they come from, who they are. He also has had more instances of inherently knowing something, or the ability to have visions concerning their true origins. He is the one who got the key from Valenti's office. He is the one who got them to Marathon, he is the one who got them to the reservation to find the cave painting and meeting RiverDog. He is the one who knew the cave painting was a map and to place the healing stones in the painting to form a map. He is the one who navigated the symbols to lead them to the library where the Destiny book was hidden. All in all, Michael is the one who has lead them in finding the truth about who and what they are.
I have a few questions for you msbaby..............Can you honestly see Michael in the role of advisor to a king?????? Your own words paint him as someone not rational enough to make the type of decisions that have to be made by one in charge over an army and counseling and advising a king. Think about it..........Max fits that role much better, doesn't he? Max is usually cautious, thinks things through, doesn't make rash decisions or go off half cocked. One is not voted in as king, they are born to it. Unless of course the throne is taken by force. One is assigned as a leader of an army and advisor. It is more than possible that Michael is the king and Max his second, because frankly I can't see anyone making Michael the leader of an army and advisor to a king. Can you? The reason royalty have advisors is because they do not always make sound decisions and have to have someone to help guide them and counsel them on appropriate courses of action. It has been made clear that the king on the home planet was not doing a great job. Do you want that to be Max??? Because by your reasoning you are saying you accept that Max was a bad king and got them all killed last time around. Courtney stated that they were followers of the second, that the second could bring peace. Does that seem likely that it was Michael??? I don't think so. They were followers of a second who was rational and could bring together warring factions, which to me sounds much more likely to be Max.
Think about it.
Michael has always had an air of superiorty. An "I can do no wrong" attitude. He had always displayed that he would do whatever he wanted, no matter what anyone else said. That he had the right to do so. Clearly this shows that he needs advising. And hasn't Max been filling that role for as long as we have been watching Roswell? How often has Michael advised Max? Maybe a handful of times, but overwhelmingly Max has filled the role of advisor and counselor to Michael.
There are a ton of clues that point to Michael being the king. TONS. And the most obvious is the most glaringly, gross example of blatant foreshadowing I have ever seen in any series or movie.......................
"It's Graceland, and you're Elvis!"
Which makes him the king.
Sorry chicas, my opinion on this cannot be swayed. And anyway, I saw the look on Kevin Kelly Brown's face when I told him my suspicion. It was priceless.
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Edited by: Fehr is Fehr at: 7/28/01 12:41:33 pm
msbaby
Unregistered User
(7/28/01 1:05:24 pm)
Michael as King
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Okay, I will exit this thread as it is simply speaking of Michael as King. When I read the question, I interpreted it to ask what if and in response I was stating why I thought he should not be king. Before I say "tootles" amu I first leave you with this:
Michael spent the summer learning how to crack rocks because underneath he has always tried to run things. He is always ready to take action. That's one of his problems.
You say Max has no problem bossing people around. He didn't ask to take charge. For whatever reason he was given that position either from Michael and Isabel's insecurities or his apparent abilities to be a leader.
Max did not use physical force on Isabel. He threatend to. I did, however miss some episodes. Did he touch her in those missed episodes?
No, Max was not clearly thinking things through when he slept with Tess. I know, being the gentleman he is, he would apologize for making a mistake among his family and friends who do not.
It was stated that Max decided to do something without discussing it with anyone. Hello! He's the King. I guess that's one of the perks of the job. He doesn't have to discuss anything if he cares not to.
Michael decided to stay away from Maris to keep his head clear. Funny how it didn't take much for him to retract that thought.
You say Michael felt he NEEDED to kill Brody? Murder, even premeditated is a felony.
When Iz suggested killing Brody and Michael said " Me, too" how long and how much forethought did he take in considering his options? Can you say "milisecond?"
I again, apologize for being on the wrong board. When I see there are more than one pages on the thread, I always go to the last page. I know...I'll do better.
Shilohaura
Registered User
Posts: 122
(7/28/01 1:27:13 pm)
Re: michael as king?
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I, too, feel there is much, if you watch all the episodes, that could indicate that Michael could be the carrier of the essence of the true King.
But I truly don't think either one of them is hyped that, because they found out their origins (not WHO they are because they are not those people - they are only derived from their DNA/essences), they are now gung ho to go fight for their "people". Think about it, would they truly fit in better on Antar than Earth? Would they look like anyone else there? Would they communicate well? Would the cultures mix? I think it's been more of a curiosity "where do we come from?" thing - "I'd like to visit & then go home", maybe. Michael feels he doesn't "belong" & is hoping to find someone connected to him - not go to war with! Max & Iz are curious but also frightened - they look like Earthlings, are comfortable with the social structures of Earthlings. Being "King" & fighting for your "people" were things that some one told him he was expected to do & I feel Max kind of took on that role because he thought everyone expected him to after they heard that edict. I think most of his "bossing" prior to that was simply because of his basic personality - usually thinking first - compared to Michael's impulsiveness & Isabel's terror of being found out. It's often the calmer one of a group that takes charge and eventually says "wait a minute! Let's think about this first & then make a decision" & that was usually characteristic of Max - even before being told he was king.
I think Max & Isabel could take or leave actually going to Antar, definitely leave leading a rebellion for people they don't really know even though they're curious about their background. It was Tess/baby that convinced Max to go - not any loyalty to leading a rebellion, & Iz was simply going cuz she didn't want to be without Max. Michael's looking for roots & connections - being more impulsive, he might be more compelled to join a rebellion if he found those roots (which,again, would make him a good candidate for having the King's essence ), but I don't feel that was his major reason for wanting to go.
Think about it , I might search for my family history, but if I found out I had an Irish background (now, no offense here - I'm actually learning Irish Gaelic because I love the culture there!), & that I was the decendant of one of the Irish High Kings, I'd not be compelled to run over there & become leader of the IRA just because some one told me it was my duty, my destiny, my heritage! I'd be interested in GOING to Ireland & seeing where I came from, maybe meeting some very distant relatives, but my "duty" would end there! And I'm sure I'd eventually want to return home with some lovely pictures & memories, and a few new addresses to write or e-mail to! I think a better destiny for all of them to consider would be to try & establish as normal lives as possible on Earth - possibly to be leaders in an eventual effort to fight off an invasion from Kivar - in which case both, Michael & Max, would be of equal importance!
But, yes - I do agree with Fehr Is Fehr - there is a lot to indicate that Michael could contain the essence of the King! Wonder what his reaction would be to discovering that if it were true!
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 829
(7/28/01 1:32:35 pm)
Re: Michael as King
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msbaby I am sorry you seem to think you need to leave this topic. Won't you even venture to expand the possiblities of your mind? From your above post almost everything you stated backs the theory that Micahel may in fact be the king. A misguided king, but king none the less. He doesn't always make sound decisions and clearly needs someone who thinks things through, Max.
Did you even read my above post? It doesn't seem you did. You didn't answer the questions I asked. Are you saying you think Max was a crappy ruler, who made bad choices and got them all killed? Do you really see Michael as a second who could bring together warring factions? Do you see Micahel in the capacity of advisor to a king? Please take the time to think about this and please answer. I get the impression you think Max not being the king is a bad thing, when actually it is a great thing. It gets him off alot of hooks. Max would in my opinion make a better leader as far as thinking things through and going over options. I honestly think that is why Courtney and other skins were following the second and attempting to get him on the throne. Most kings have been known to be impulsive and irresponsible as young men, growing into their responsibilties through plainly, just growing up, getting older and following the counsel of their advisors.
I have said nothing about Tess in relationship to this, because the dynamic of the three, Michael, Max and Isabel was already well defined before Tess showed up. The three of them are clearly a seperate entity from Tess, as she herself has set herself apart from them. Tess in my mind plays no role in my deducing that Michael is the king. If anything, she is actually Michael's sister and the true original betrayer on the home planet.
I want to point out that I in no way think Michael would make a better leader. Or at least I didn't until the latest turn of events toward the end of season two, when frankly, Max was losing it! It isn't about who would make the best king. It is about who really is the king. The king we have heard about was rash, impulsive, made bad decisions, had war on all sides and also had a renegade group trying to get his second on the throne. Sorry, but that does not sound like Max to me, it sounds like Michael.
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Edited by: Fehr is Fehr at: 7/28/01 1:43:37 pm
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 519
(7/28/01 3:45:02 pm)
Re: Michael as King
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I really hadn't pondered this theory until coming to UPN... and even then I wasn't quite sure... but after reading and chatting with Cam, Fehr, and brew22 I have seen the light! I know Michael seems an unlikely candidate but the signs are there... if you look...!
"I wish more things had made her cry. And I wish I could have swum just once in the sea of her mermaid tears, where all the rockstars should've drowned." "RAVE" Francesca Lia Block
msbaby
Unregistered User
(7/28/01 9:09:26 pm)
RX
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I just think Max would be a better king, after all he IS the king. FisF, I will have to answer your questions later. After reading all that, all I have been able to conclude is that Michael needs Prozac, Max needs testosterone, and I need an Advil (smile).
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 850
(7/29/01 12:12:46 am)
Re: RX
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Feel better msbaby and when you're up to it I would like to hear the evidence that Max is king.
I want to be perfectly clear that I in no way was looking for this to happen to me. I never even considered Michael might be the king until Harvest. After that I went back and looked at all the eps from the Pilot and found that many things hinted at Michael being the king and other things shouted it. I was actually shocked when I realized this might be the truth. Absolutely shocked that it could be so simple that it had been overlooked, by me and apperently alot of other people.
How do you know Max is the king? Really know? From what you've heard, from the momogram, Nesado, Tess, Nicholas? Or the royal seal from MITC is proof positive for you?
If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times.........if the peeps that sent them here have the ability to duplicate essence, clone, splice and branch DNA, then switching the royal seal to cloak and protect the real king doesn't seem like such a tall order.
In general I guess it comes down to the type of thinker a person is. Either you are one who believes what you are told, and what you see, without questioning it. One that thinks because something appears a certain way, then that's the way it is. Or you question what you see, are told, hear. Someone who wants, needs to know, what is underneath, what the truth or fact of the matter is. There are a few age old sayings about this..... "Don't believe everything you read, see, hear." "Don't judge a book by it's cover."
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Arista Hanson
Registered User
Posts: 324
(7/29/01 12:21:34 am)
Re: RX
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Msbaby I'm assuming that you've decided to come back to this thread. I hope so, you've have a lot of interesting points and really they do help find out who the real king is. A good way to find out who the true king is to compare the two candidates.
Well assuming that you'll be coming back I will be continuing with the debate...
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It was stated that Max decided to do something without discussing it with anyone. Hello! He's the King. I guess that's one of the perks of the job. He doesn't have to discuss anything if he cares not to.
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Normally I would agree that a king does not need to discuss or explain things if he chooses not to, but sense Max is not in a normal situation(understatement of the year), Max is not on the throne, Max doesn't have an army to back him up, the only people he has remote authority over is Michael and Isabel and that's only, because they allow him to have it. If Max continues to make decisions with out getting there opinion then they aren't going to be there not going to listen to him and back him up that's what Michael was talking about during Surprise,was can Max be a leader with no one to lead?
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Max did not use physical force on Isabel. He threatend to. I did, however miss some episodes. Did he touch her in those missed episodes?
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Well I agree with you on this, because that was what I was trying to say, but rereading my post I can see where it seemed like it was saying he did really hurt her physically. Either way it's not something a person who can think through his issues.
~Arista~
1dj
Registered User
Posts: 6
(7/29/01 1:39:08 am)
Re: Michael as king
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Well geez people, like I didn't think about Roswell enough and now THIS
You guys really make some interesting points. When I first saw this thread....I was thinking...No, Max (well season 1 Max) would make a better king and had more king qualities. Then I started to read what you were all saying and ALOT of it does sound very good. One of the things that started to sway me was this by Fehr is Fehr
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The reason royalty have advisors is because they do not always make sound decisions and have to have someone to help guide them and counsel them on appropriate courses of action. It has been made clear that the king on the home planet was not doing a great job. Do you want that to be Max??? Because by your reasoning you are saying you accept that Max was a bad king and got them all killed last time around. Courtney stated that they were followers of the second, that the second could bring peace. Does that seem likely that it was Michael??? I don't think so. They were followers of a second who was rational and could bring together warring factions, which to me sounds much more likely to be Max.
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Now after reading that, it was like YES that would help get Max off the hook but then I thought well now that would not put Michael in a very good light
So now I'm sitting here thinking I don't want either of them to be king because after you put it that way, whoever was king comes out not looking too good.
Now you guys do realize that this is *really* going to bug me now
DJ
Shilohaura
Registered User
Posts: 131
(7/29/01 12:27:21 pm)
Re: Michael as king
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That's what people on this board are best at - Keeping the confusion running high! Keeping the brain occupied while waiting for Friggin' Oct. 16!!!!
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 527
(7/29/01 3:44:05 pm)
Re: Michael as king
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shilohaura confused... that's what I usually am....
"I wish more things had made her cry. And I wish I could have swum just once in the sea of her mermaid tears, where all the rockstars should've drowned." "RAVE" Francesca Lia Block
msbaby
Unregistered User
(7/29/01 6:48:13 pm)
I'm B-a-a-a-ack!
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Hey Sistahs, I am at such a disadvantage regarding these epiosodes. I missed the first six of Season Two due to no fault of my own. I was in the hospital having surgery. Now, before you get the tissues and the violin, I am not using that as an excuse. I am just explaining why I seem so uninformed..which I am. As far a Max or Michael as king, it's just that I like the premise as it is. I WANT MAX TO BE KING. One could say in the Season One finale that when Mommy was speaking she could have been referring to anyone because she said, "if you are seeing me know" implying that she could not see who she was speaking to. One could argue that Micheal is king and his learned adcisor is Max which would make sense being that Max is clearly more level-headed. BUT THAT BETTER NOT BE THE CASE. Then again , if the king on Antar made bad decisions, as it was pointed out to me, then that would clearly point to Michael as King because, hey, that's his M.O. But, when Brody was talking to Max after the summit, I got the impression that Max did not so much make bad decisions as he was so sensitive and followed his heart, hoping that people and situations could change. That would lead to Max because who is more sensitive than Max, even to the point of nausea as seen in the epiosode when he got beat up and was talking to Michael. He whined so like a little girl. I really want to get the missed epiosodes but is that like receiving stolen goods if someone taped them and sold them over the internet. Wouldn't I be an accessory?
Page 5
Shilohaura
Registered User
Posts: 136
(7/29/01 8:01:08 pm)
Friends
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Hey, msbaby - Friends tape things for other friends all the time - you buy the tapes & someone makes you a copy! I'm SURE someone out there could help you out. I had a friend that did a very nice job of it! IF WB was smart, they'd be putting out tapes & DVD's right now to make their last few bucks under the WB logo! I know they don't produce it, but I'm sure they were smart enough to hold residual rights - that's why UPN can't be showing the reruns over the summer in preparation for the new season!
LonnieEyes
Unregistered User
(7/30/01 9:06:00 am)
michael as king
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msbaby- do you ever go to fanforum? the have a thread for tape trading. its how i got most of season 2.
okay this is a slight weird theroy but, basing the premise of max was assumed to be king because the momagram was only a recocording- couldn't it have easily been isabel?or even tess? the fact is its not known. a king's alien essence would have easily been placed in a female body as a male one. wouldn't isabel fit the role of misguded king just as much as michael? and what better way to hide a king, one that is seen as a symbol of hope among a beaten people than to make your enamies chase after the 2 males whilst the true king is safe assumed to be a hapless female?
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 150
(7/30/01 9:41:40 pm)
Michael as king
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Hello everyone! I have been busy the past few days, so posting on this thread has been rather difficult. I see a little controversy has occured in my absence. I will be honest and say that some of the points of view have bothered me, but I always welcome an opposing view and appreciate how respectful everyone has been to one another. I know in the past on other threads controversy has bought forth angry words and derrogatory posts. I applaud all of you for being adult and respecting one another.
Now with that said... LonnieEyes I had breifly thought about one of the female aliens being the king, but that did not sound very appealing to me considering most societies are male driven. Although the smart thing would be to place the actual king's essence in one of the female aliens, it would probably and quite honestly be dismissed by the deciding counsel. We are considered to be too hormonal and irrational as a gender.
MsBaby...I read your posts defending Max as king, and where I normally agree with Ferh is Ferh on most occasions, I disagree with her ideas of what caused the past royal four's demise. I tend to think that the failure of the previous leadership was not because of one person's error in judgement, but the collective. I think it was a chain of events that took place that caused their downfall. A series of bad decisions that caused a dynasty to fall. I believe Michael is king because of the abilities and faults he possesses. He is stubborn, impulsive, and umemotional. I can see him taking the advice of Max, and not getting the results he expected. Then turning around and doing something impulsive, making things worse. I urge you to keep an open mind. I started this thread because the possiblity was so mind boggling at first and I loved the idea behind it all. But more and more as we search through the episodes for clues, I find the evidence there to prove Michael as king.
Okay all, it is time to move on to the next episode, INTO THE WOODS. I plan to post on this episode tomorrow night. So until then, keep discussing the argument of who the rightful heir is.
Rachishere
Registered User
Posts: 100
(7/31/01 12:35:58 am)
Re: Michael as king
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The issue of Isabel or Tess being the king, just complicates things. It's like the whole Tess or Isabel being the queen theory. I personally think Tess was King Michael's sister. Tess bethrothed to Max, Isabel married to Michael. Not that I am in any way a Isabel/Michael shipper. M&M all the way, baby! Tess betrayed her family on the home planet, she did it again her. History repeats itself, but that is a whole other topic.
Jeez, it's like algebra word problems. I never could figure those out either.
msbaby
Unregistered User
(7/31/01 10:42:42 am)
Wipe, Wipe, Wipe
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Okay. If you will allow me, I would like to start over. I do have this episode on tape (In the Woods), that is. Let me get this straight. This thread is for discussing why YOU GUYS, feel Michael is king. We are to view the epi and conclude this because of the evidence we find in the epi?? Right??? Now, if I believe Max is King, I am not to be on this thread? Camlaw said to continue the debate, so does that mean I am to be on this thread, just with opposing views??? Point me in the right direction. Also, how do you make the pring dark when you want to emphasize something, as they did earlier when they wanted emphasize my name? I am a baby when it comes to computers...hence my handle.
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 154
(7/31/01 9:46:23 pm)
Re: Michael as king
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Rachishere I tend to lean towards Tess being Michael's sister as well. But like Ferh is Ferh, I try not to dwell too much on who the girls actually are. You are right! It can become like a twisted algebra problem, so I choose not to bother with it.
MSBABY the original question on this post is What if Michael was the actual king? The theory of Michael being king was brought up to me by Ferh is Ferh on another thread months ago. I enjoyed her theory so much that I decided to start a thread discussing this particular topic alone. Since then I have come to believe that Michael is in fact the actual king and not Max. Ferh is Ferh has pointed out some wonderful and insightful clues in each episode that support her king theory. Every week or so we post on an episode (in order, beginning with season 1) and discuss the scenes, lines, incidents, etc. that we feel support the king theory. This thread is not merely for those that believe Michael to be king. We welcome opposing opinions and enjoy a challenging debate. You do not have to agree with our view points, but be prepared for a passionate response to your opposing view. I encourage you to take the time to read this entire thread. Watch the episodes with us and explain what evidence you discover that proves to you why Max is infact the king and not Michael. Does that clear things up for you?
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 862
(7/31/01 10:53:27 pm)
Re: Michael as king
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Hey peeps. Fly by post!
<-- msbaby click on the Use Ezcodes thingie over there in your response box. It will explain how to do lots of interesting things. bold, italic, ect.
The original thread is still on the board, as is the #2 thread. I encourage you to read them. Wanting Max to be king, or making statements about his or Michael's demeanor, don't really convey much or hold much water. What we look for is actual scenes and lines from the episodes. Things that you may take a completely different way, once you start looking at the eps with your eyes open to the possibility Michael is in fact the king.
I'm tellin' ya.........it hit me like a load of bricks!
Michael also refered to himself as the king in VLV at the craps table after a winning roll. "The king ladies and gentlemen!"
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 863
(7/31/01 10:59:31 pm)
Re: Michael as king
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Oh I forgot to say welcome to the thread 1dj. Hope you come back.
Hi to Rach, Cam, Shilo, Arista and Jen.
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Rachishere
Registered User
Posts: 101
(8/1/01 12:39:04 am)
Re: Michael as king
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Hi right back atcha, Fehr.
1dj
Registered User
Posts: 7
(8/1/01 6:53:25 pm)
Re: Michael as king
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Hello everyone. Thanks for the welcome Fehr is Fehr.
Shilohaura...Yes I see that it is people's job on here
to keep the confusion going. And boy do you ALL do a great
job at that.
Now while I'm not 100% sure about this, I really do enjoy
reading all the clues you guys have found and yes it does make me look at some of this stuff very differently. I NEVER would of come to this conclusion. Thank you all for giving me this different angel to look at things. This is great.
DJ
Arista Hanson
Registered User
Posts: 337
(8/1/01 8:10:49 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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Hi, Ferh, how you doing? How's the your daughter and grandson doing?
~Arista~
jennifehr
Registered User
Posts: 556
(8/1/01 8:15:32 pm)
Re: Michael as king
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Hey Fehr is Fehr, Cam, brew and all you other crazy roswellians!!!! Today sheilabehr and I started a list of reasons why we feel Mikey G could be King.... it was fun!! I will post the list later . I had a dream last night about Our King.... not much too it... just a throne and him in a crown... and he was yelling orders at everyone!!! that's it... it was very strange!! I think I have been thinking too hard!!
"I wish more things had made her cry. And I wish I could have swum just once in the sea of her mermaid tears, where all the rockstars should've drowned." "RAVE" Francesca Lia Block
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 869
(8/1/01 8:36:41 pm)
Re: Michael as king
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1dj did you read the other two threads? It is alot easier to put in place if you go at it from the beginning. So glad we have been able to give you some new Roswell thinking material. We are all just trying to keep our hair waiting for October to roll around!
Rach I haven't been seeing you as much. Everything's okay I hope.
Arista my daughter is doing much better since she came home. The baby is so big he already outgrew his newborn outfits and the next size is getting tight! Thank you so much for asking about them. How are you, Michael?
Jennifehr and her crazy dreams..................
I must admit I am leary of playing Amy, because I might go off in a Mrs. Robinson direction.................then I'd be in the doghouse!!!
Hurry up and post the list you and sheilabehr made.
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Fehr is Fehr
Moderator
Posts: 870
(8/1/01 8:42:14 pm)
Re: Michael as king
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Shilo!!! I am posting this because I keep on forgetting to say hello to you and I feel terrible about it. Please believe it is because my brain is still fried from the week of hospital/baby hell. I am slowly getting back to my semi normal state! So........... hello. And please forgive me.
***Quite an experience to live in fear. That's what it is to be a slave.....***
Camlaw
Registered User
Posts: 157
(8/1/01 9:19:39 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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I was going to post on INTO THE WOODS tonight, but seeing how we are so close to the end of this thread, I will wait until the new thread begins before starting the next episode. I hope that is okay with everyone. Seeing how we only have 5 posts left, it just seems prudent to wait.
Shilohaura
Registered User
Posts: 150
(8/1/01 9:43:02 pm)
No Problem!
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Hey, FisF! Thanks for the wave! Hope that little one is doing great! Any spoiling going on yet? You'll just have to get a little Roswell T-Shirt ready to go for October!
Arista Hanson
Registered User
Posts: 340
(8/1/01 11:20:51 pm)
Re: What if Michael was the actual king? # 3
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Oh, I'm so glad they're doing good.
Now to get back on topic...
Msbaby in some of your posts you have used Max and Michael's personalities to prove that Max is the king. Such as this quote
Quote:
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But, when Brody was talking to Max after the summit, I got the impression that Max did not so much make bad decisions as he was so sensitive and followed his heart, hoping that people and situations could change. That would lead to Max because who is more sensitive than Max, even to the point of nausea as seen in the epiosode when he got beat up and was talking to Michael.
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Now I'm not going to get in how much Max is NOT more sensitive than Michael, but instead I will just ask you how do you know that he had the same personalities he had in the past life? How do we know what any of them were like there. Was Michael the irrational guy that he is now, was he as angry as the world as he was in this one. I mean the cause of all the anger was caused because he didn't have a family; did he have a family in that life, was family even important to him, how did. So who's to say.
~Arista~
msbaby
Unregistered User
(8/1/01 11:48:30 pm)
Clear As A Bell
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Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes....THANKS.
Arista Hanson
Registered User
Posts: 342
(8/1/01 11:54:18 pm)
Re: Clear As A Bell
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Are you saying thank you to me and if so why?
~Arista~
msbaby
Unregistered User
(8/1/01 11:57:42 pm)
Sorry
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My thanks was to Camlaw for clarifying things for me. Toottles.
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