Roswell the Television Show -- First Liz Importance Thread

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Is Liz More Important to the Aliens/Mythology than we are led to believe? - 183 replies - Last Post: 05-30-2000

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Thread started by Zero: Seattle, WA.

Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 154

05-04-2000 10:09 AM

Liz's importance to the aliens and their mythology has been bugging me - so I thought I would get others' thoughts. Here's what I'm thinking. Max was immediately attracted to Liz from the day he first saw her - based on the flashbacks. She is extremely intelligent, especially when it comes to science, etc. She seems to be the only "human" that has flashes, and they are major. Neither Maria or Alex have had flashes (unless I missed something - which I doubt ) when kissing Micheal or Isabel. I think that Liz fits into the big picture - or will in the future if the show has another season! There is something there - I'm just not sure what yet! Can't get more into this or this will become a potential spoiler, but I wanted to see if there are others who think Liz "fits" into the big picture of the mythology like I do??

EmilyluvsRoswell Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 873

05-04-2000 10:34 AM

I'm not sure. I kind of thought Liz having the flashes was a result of her being more open to Max and less afraid. Maria admitted to being shut off and somehow I don't think Michael is that open either, despite the progress he's made, so he may not give-off images the way Max does. And I don't think Isabel and Alex have been together long enough for Alex to get flashes from her.

Also, in the Pilot, Max connects with Liz and shows her his thoughts. That first set of flashes is something he sends to her, not something she just picks up. It is possible that sort of opened the channels.

But I like the idea of Liz throwing a wrench in the cosmic cogs. Maybe their destinies are altered by the reality of being in a different time and place. Like changing one of the stimuli in an experiment alters the end result. So, had the four aliens been on their own planet they would have joined up again, but the situation altered and so did their destinies. Makes me think of the Back to the Future films where, by going into a different time and interacting with his family, Marty altered the course of history/the future.

BehrAll Level 4

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 532

05-04-2000 10:39 AM

Your timing in bringing this up is quite serendipidous; check for a posting by "tepp" in the "Science Fiction of Max to the Max" thread. I and several others found it very persuasive.

LSS Level 5

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 1017

05-04-2000 10:47 AM

While we have been exploring this issue at length on the various SF threads, I thought I'd post just a summary of my own position.

I ascribe to the "altered Liz" theory which states that due to events in Liz's life (i.e. the healing, Max's strong emotional bond, etc.), Liz has been altered physically. Although Tess might have been the one originally intended to be pair-bound with Max, Liz is now in place to function in the show's mythology as Tess' replacement.

This is going to present obvious problems for Max, Tess, Liz, and the collective alien destiny. Therefore I look forward in the fall season for the story arc to concentrate on the issues like free will/choice, and reclaiming ones heritage in light of one's present cultural context.

As I said, quite a few people are talking about this over on the SF of M2TM thread...and I would recommend highly reading Tepp's excellent post where he does an in depth analysis of the Liz characterization.

LSS

Zero Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 154

05-04-2000 03:26 PM

THANKS so much for responding - I will definitely have to check out the tepp post! I also like the exploration of the free choice vs. destiny. Plus, if the spoilers I've read (I won't repeat here cuz I don't want to spoil anything), what makes the gang of four who they are on Earth may play into the connection between Liz and Max. Those who sent them to Earth may not have anticipated the impact of how the gang was "made." This is one of those topics I;d love to sit down and discuss over coffee with a group of obsesses people like me, but I guess the internet will have to do?

Jes

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 27

05-04-2000 05:24 PM

I have not read this whole thread yet, so sorry if this is a duplicate.

Your thoughts amaze me because I have been thinking very hard about this myself. Max has been drawn to Liz since the first time he saw her at age 6. He told her it was fate that brought them together. Nasedo saved Liz in M2M even though he told her that she was just his bargaining chip. There is something there and Nasedo knows it. And it's not just that Max saved Liz at the Crashdown. Liz and Max are alike. But, to be as important as he is (royalty of sorts), she would have to have something about her that makes her special or different. We just don't know what that is yet. We don't know her destiny, although Max hinted at it at the end of Sexual Healing.

There are a lot of clues, I just haven't put them together. In SH, for example, I really dwelled on the conversation between Michael and Is about Liz getting the visions from "someone or something." I screamed at my TV in M2M when they showed Pierce looking at that scene. There is something there. And why was Liz seeing the visions? This all means something...

I love this show! It makes me think! Keep the mythology coming!

sunnygirl

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 20

05-04-2000 08:24 PM

I was thinking the same thing! I opened a thread yesterday that was kinda about it. I had noticed, in the last episode, that Nasedo had saved Liz instead of Max in the Funhouse, which was kinda strange. Something is definately going on there!

sunnygirl

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 20

05-04-2000 08:26 PM

imsodisco Level 1

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 30

05-04-2000 08:43 PM

About nasedo/max saving liz...I do think she is important to the group, but I think nasedo/max saved her because wouldn't it look a bit odd if 2 maxs left together? As far as the fbi knows, max is IT. He's the one killing people. If nasedo/max took max with him, it would draw attention to the fact that there could very well be 2 different bad aliens and not just one. I'll have to watch that part of the episode again...I'm not sure why nasedo did that really, and even what I said doesn't totally make sense ^_^ but I thought I'd voice that possibility and see if anyone might take it somewhere....

cantbehrit

Registered: Jan 2000 Posts: 321

05-05-2000 08:59 AM

I've been wondering that for quite some time now. I don't really have much to say but I agree with everything you've stated!

I'm gonna go read the science fiction part now & see what that says!

cantbehrit

Zero Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 154

05-05-2000 04:26 PM

Bumping this up to get more opinions. I love this topic!

silver.star Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 135

05-06-2000 12:41 AM

In my opinion I do believe that Liz is a key character in Roswell. You just can not ignore the changes that she has experienced since Max saved her. The visions & the gravitational pull towards Max since then have just been too great to ignore. My belief is that even though you may be destined for something or someone, there are paths in your life that you take that were not foreseen by anyone. Tess should have left the pods the same time as M/M/I, but she did not, and that altered their destiny. From the first time Max saw Liz he knew she was the one. And since our 3 aliens do not know the extent of their powers fully the healing Max did must have altered her in someway to give her the ability to have these visions. Therefore she is a part of him forever. The fasination of science with Liz could just be a coinsedence or maybe not, could be that Liz was born to be with Max as well (the human side) FATE-we have one perfect match. Liz is now in as much danger as any of our fab 3, and maybe Nasedo has figured that out at some point. She could be the key element for Max. I don’t think Nasedo is truly evil. He is here for a purpose and that is to keep our fab 3 safe from the FBI at any cost. As many would do for their family’s. I have pondered the thought of FBI and Nasedo collaboration back in the 1950’s, to where the FBI were involved with cloning the fab 3 and Tess and then tried to destroy them. At this point Nasedo took it upon himself and hid them in the mountain for safety. Nasedo fled to keep them safe. When they were hatched (born) and left without Tess this changed everything (I’ve said this before). Tess being alone, I believe that Nasedo took it upon himself to protect her and teach her about who she is and where she came from though I believe that is what he intended to do for all of our aliens in the beginning. Just thoughts…………Now I’m just babbling……….must go……

thescoobygang Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 344

05-06-2000 02:43 PM

Zero Great topic. I know there are so many things to analyze about the Liz character---unfortunately I need to get my notes together before I can discuss any of it. Liz has always been a pivotal character in the series and I sometimes wonder why she is overlooked in some of the more serious discussions on the board.

As for the idea of discussing this around a table with coffee----why not try that on a virtual level? At CE(Canadian Embassy thread) we always pretend we're in the same room discussing topics. We even have a virtual waiter(serving drinks) who I'm told resembles Brendan Fehr . It's all in the imagination(and it's fun) . It may sound kinda silly, but it really does have the feel of a round table discussion.

scooby

Spacker Boy Level 3

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 120

05-06-2000 02:54 PM

Hey Zero, I like the way u think.....Liz could have something to do with the aliens....deeper that she already is.....but will we find out??? who knows

Catch u later.....

spiritwolf Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 14

05-07-2000 08:34 AM

Concerning Liz's importance: Has anyone wondered if Nasado set up Liz being shot to draw Max out? MAybe he was one of the ruffians. Maybe Liz was the target because she is so important to Max and was the only human he would blow his cover to save. Forcing Max to be shaken out of his comfortable human world and started on the quest of discovery?

D101NYC Level 2

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 51

05-07-2000 08:51 AM

Spiritwolf, I thought about that too. Maybe Nacedo was the guy who shot Liz to kinda get the ball rolling?? Who knows???

V queen Level 4

Registered: Jan 2000 Posts: 596

05-07-2000 09:01 AM

I just wanted say that I agree with everyone saying that liz is more important than we think. I think when max healed her he changed her. Well I just wanted to say that I agreed with all of you guy and really injoy reading your posts. great thread Zero.

thescoobygang Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 344

05-07-2000 02:28 PM

Spiritwolf, D101NYC

Thanks goodness I'm not the only one who subscribes to the shooting theory of Liz!!! I've always maintained that there was something more to the shooting than has been revealed thus far.

In Max to the Max, Liz asked Nasedo why he thought the FBI would be interested in acquiring her. His answer: because they know that Max saved your life. How did he know about that? Only a select group of people actually knew Liz was even shot at the Crashdown! That short list includes: M/M/I, Maria, Alex, Larry & Jen, Valenti, and the FBI(who btw only knew because Valenti sent them the evidence) The cheap explanation here would be to say that Nasedo is resourceful so he always knows everything that's going on. But wouldn't it be more plausible to suspect he knew because he was the shooter?

I agree that Nasedo probably objects to the Max/Liz pairing because it interferes with the planned destiny of the four. This may be why he sent Tess in right after he saw Liz & Max together at the radio tower in Sexual Healing.

GraceKel Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 652

05-08-2000 04:52 AM

Hey guys I am beginning to think the same thing about Liz that maybe she was the intended soulmate and someone shot her to destroy that but Max saved her or it could be what some said that maybe Nasedo wanted to draw Max out.

Here is another theory, if you listen to Max's version of events in Balance about coming out of the pods he clearly said Isabel and I found each other first-we couldn't speak but we could communicate anyway we walked for quite awhile and then we felt someone else----------Michael he was standing on this big rock----------maybe Michael is related to Tess and Nasedo a different form of alien than Max and Isabel--maybe Max and Isabel were meant to pair with humans but this other alien group wants to foul this up and have Max and Isabel pair with Michael and Tess. That could explain why Michael has trouble with his powers, why he has always been different from Max and Isabel REMEMBER he did not trust Max and Isabel-he wouldn't take their hands-------later he has bonded slowly with them. But maybe he is from this darker Alien group but has been changed by his exposure to Max Isabel, and the humans (especially Maria?) That would also explain why Michael can read their language better (the map) Michael got the message from Nasedo and Max and Isabel couldn't figure it out. Why he knew to go to the library to send the signal. Well what do you guys think? Am I crazy, I could be but this is just what I have been thinking. It is a possibility. This is not to make Michael bad-because I think his destiny has been altered by his contact possibly with this other Alien group Max and Isabel and humans! Tell me what you think?

Zero Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 154

05-08-2000 10:20 AM

Now I'm even more intriqued by the thought that the shooting might have involved Nasedo as a set up to draw Max out!! This show has to come back next year just to explore the Liz connection to the pod squad!!

GraceKel Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 652

05-08-2000 03:10 PM

Did anyone read my possible theory about Michael a few posts up. I would really like to hear what you think because I think there is something there! Bumping up anyways!

RBS722 Level 4

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 607

05-08-2000 03:21 PM

Ok...here is what i think about liz's abilities to see flashes:

i think when she was healed, she was exposed to the ability to see flashes, but didn't realize she had them until she let max in and they had an emotional connection. now maria, on the other hand, was afraid at first of the aliens, and was hesitant and doesn't want to see the flashes. Because of the emotional connection with max and liz, now liz can detect flashes from everyone, because she has mastered the talent. however, it was the emotional connection they had that made her aware of this power.

JKJBluv Level 5

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 1128

05-08-2000 03:27 PM

YES she is incredibly important to MAX but us dreamers already knew that and always have!

Zero Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 154

05-08-2000 03:34 PM

GraceKel - I did read what you thought about Michael, and I'm still thinking about it. His reaction may just have to do with the way and the material out of which he is made. A personality difference - but also each may have been made with different special traits.

As far as Liz's place in things - I still wonder about her Grandma. Remember in the episode she died she was just about to publish a book on the Navajo nation - it was briefly discussed. What if somehow that all ties in to the mythology. Plus, Nasedo has been aroung for a long time, and could easily have come into contact - in a good way since I do believe he has emotions/feelings and is not all bad/killer-wise - with Liz's Grandma in her youth. What if he fathered a human somehow?? Maybe Liz's mom?? Okay, I'm getting out there a bit - but it is possible. Nasedo told Liz he has been people she couldn't even imagine. Okay - What do think of this connection??

*Katie*

Registered: Jan 2000 Posts: 105

05-09-2000 12:14 AM

i'd have to say, I completely agree about Liz being some greater part of the story. Her connection with Max seems to be more, then just her being more open to them. But she shares a bond with him. That's just my opinion on the subjet, I believe Liz has a greater purpose to the plot then they have her in right now.

GraceKel Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 652

05-09-2000 08:54 AM

Zero thanks for responding and to you about the grandmother-yes I always felt her bringing up book about Indians may be of some significance also but they haven't expanded on this theme with Indians except with Mesalaka Reservation so I haven't been able to come up with anything solid. I think your theory is a distinct possibility as I think something is up with Liz definitely! But I also cannot get over how much Liz looks like Hubble's wife with the wind blowing thru her hair-something there?

Hate to harp on Michael thing but so many times Michael has said "I am going to find Nasedo, he is my family". I think many times writers put truths in there when you are thinking exactly the opposite on purpose. As something forshadowing events to come or just plain truths that we don't expect! I think no one buys this cuz I am saying that Michael was born of the dark side so he is bad---no I think it explains how detached he started out being---and how he has slowly evolved because of his exposure to the others. Do you remember Riverdog came just to get Michael for that message and was surprised to see the others-almost like the message was for Michael.

thescoobygang Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 344

05-09-2000 07:42 PM

GraceKel & Zero You are both bringing up some very interesting and plausible theories regarding the background of the pod squad and Liz. Here is some more food for thought:

With the exception of the pilot & Blind Date, most of Liz's visions are seen through the perspective of Nasedo not Max. Why is that? In the SH eppy, the visions of the crash & the orb were obviously from the viewpoint of Nasedo since the pod squad were not even "hatched" at that moment in time. In Max to the Max, Liz is once again seeing events through Nasedo's eyes. What triggered this? At the end of SH, Liz & Max both admitted the visions were gone. Why then did kissing Nasedo re-trigger the vision phenomenon?

Regarding Sheila Hubble: she is the only victim that doesn't fit Nasedo's killing M-O. We assume that Nasedo kills "out of duty"---to protect his race. This is why killed Atherton, all the past FBI agents and even Hank(who if you remember found out that M/M/I were not normal) So why kill Sheila Hubble? The answer must be the pregnancy. There is more there than has been revealed. And why of all the past murders Nasedo has committed, did that one stand out in his memory?

Regarding Tess: She admitted that she uses mind control to manipulate people. Does this mean that the fantasies/destiny visions were real or a hoax controlled by Tess.

spiritwolf Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 14

05-10-2000 04:27 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by thescoobygang: Spiritwolf, D101NYC

OOOO, very good! I hadn't thought about the timing of Tess' arrivial. I still think something is up with Tess. She is not what she says. And my hunch is that it will be Liz who detects it first.

Clint Level 4

Registered: Jan 2000 Posts: 692

05-10-2000 08:31 AM

In White Room, Nasado said that Max, Isabel and Michael where human except had greater brain power. Could the fact that Liz is a honor student play a little part?

asdf Level 4

Registered: Nov 1999 Posts: 501

05-10-2000 08:50 AM

I kind of like the idea of everyone saying how Max healing Liz sort of altered physically her in some way (becoming more alien?) but what about when Michael healed Riverdog? Does that mean that he too has been changed in some way? Or does that rule only apply to Liz and how come?

SarahD Level 1

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 10

05-10-2000 09:32 AM

This thread is fascinating. One of the best I've found in my months of lurking.

I am giving it a bump and will post my thoughts once I get them together.

Zero Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 154

05-10-2000 10:12 AM

The more people post their thoughts, the more intriqued I am about Liz's meaning to the mythology! Thescoobygang you bring up excellent points - it is true that Liz's visions are from Nasedo's point of view. I always wondered about that when they were happening, especially the ones on the base from 1947! How Max would have had those images, including the ones of the crash, etc. always bugged me - or interested me in how he got them. Remember Liz had the visions of the army when Max touched the hickie - maybe Nasedo "planted" it on her??

Spiritwolf I also think that Liz, and her analytical abilities will play into the future of the pod squad, and their abilities. What she finds out about Tess will be interesting - I think! Also, if the pod squad are just highly evolved Earthlings with special alien blood (and maybe other traits), Liz's high intelligence - remember in the first episode Maria said that Liz was the future valedictorian?? - has something to do with her connection with Max.

Emily_A Level 3

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 187

05-10-2000 10:32 AM

I haven't collected all of my thoughts yet but i must say this is an amazing thread! I hope someone reads these and maybe puts them into the series next season...they have to get their ideas for episodes somewhere and we're not dwelling on the mushy gushy part of the show (which I do like) but the Sci-fi bits and pieces...

Side thought...Nasedo planning the shooting of Liz to bring Max out...(Excellent ponit) And do you remember the two tourists/alien fanatics that were at the crashdown when she was shot and then reappear at the convention months later? Tess and Nasedo shapeshifting? Can Tess shapeshift, I don't remember? But she can make people see things that aren't really there so...maybe!? There is defintaly more there that we have to dig up!

RoswellJunkie Level 2

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 58

05-10-2000 10:53 AM

Great thoughts!!!! and great idea for a thread! I think that ONE of the keys to this is Nasedo telling Michael that M/M/I are all basically human -- just more advanced... I think that Liz is more advanced than most as well. We all know that she is very smart, but it could have something to do with HER family history as well. We know very little about her parents. Her grandmother was very intelligent and advanced in her beliefs. And like so many others, I think that the fact that she was writing about the Navajos has a greater role than we all realize. I guess we will all have to wait and see how it unfolds, but I can't wait!!!! This summer will be a long one to wait for the new season! [since we all know it will return :0)]

jessie-mae Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 3

05-10-2000 11:08 AM

Great thread! I'm new here but I finished watching 'Max to the Max' last night. When Liz was kissing Nasedo she also got visions. I think this shows her importance to the aliens, not just Max alone. We have to remember that Nasedo is not like Max and company, and I don't believe Nasedo would let Liz look into his thoughts. So, what is up with that?

Emily_A Level 3

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 187

05-10-2000 11:45 AM

bumping to keep on top! Em

max2000

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 288

05-10-2000 02:44 PM

This is a Liz thread, and I will get to her in a minute, but first I wanna comment on the Michael Maria vision thing. If you saw SH you know that in the last scene two of them appear in at Michael's appartment, Michael admits to Maria that he did see her as a little girl. He had said earlier to her in the eraser room that he had lied about that. But in this scene he tells her she's not closed off at all. He saw her in her red sneakers with the karma patch on, and her dalmation licking off her tears. Something else about a shoelace too. And he says he saw a bunch of other stuff too. Ergo, Maria is as open as Liz, Michael essentially has seen into her soul if you will. We just didn't see it onscreen. And let's remember, there's no way he could have made it up since she certainly hadn't told him.

In fact I don't think any of the three humans are closed off (remember Iz was always the one affraid of letting Alex in, not the other way around). So what does that mean? It means that any of the aliens can see into their human partners, even though iz has yet to actually have a vision. It in and of itself may not be indicative of a greater purpose of the human characters in the pod squad's destiny, but Liz is not the only one who is sparking visions.

i also brought it up to illustrate the point that Maria is not closed off, if anyone has trouble tapping in their human side it is Michaelm, and to a lesser extent Liz. Max, the most open (the most human) of the 3 opened up to Liz a long time ago.

Now as to Liz's importance to the pod squad. I have an important clue from Balance and 4 Square that is not proven, but certainly turns the whole concept of destiny on its head. In 4 Square, as you will remember, Liz and Max are examining Aries constellation on the astronomical computer program at school. They find that the planet Venus completes the V shape star formation for the date May 27th, 2000. Venus is the 5th astronomical element that goes with the other 4.

Now we know what 4 square symbol stands for, namely the complete pod squad (i.e. MMI + Tess). But what about Venus? Where does the fifth element fit in? Remember they do find what the V shape represents atronomically at around the time Tess shows up, but she is part of the 4 Square (i.e. she's already accounted for). Let's jump back to Balance and Max and Liz's first date for the answer. Remember Max and Liz are dancing:

Liz: My parents are away for the weekend. Something about Venus being in the morning sky.

Max: I thought she was right here in front me.

Liz is Venus. She completes the Aries constellation formation that has appeared in everyone's visions at one time or another. Everyone being the pod squad anyway. This means Liz is some sense has become part of Max et al's destiny. Despite what Tess's book says. She fits in the greater plan.

My own theory basically follows Lss's. She has always beem human, though she could have some immaculate origin like Captain Sisco on Deep Space 9 did, for you Trek fans. Remember that's probably why he ended up as the Emissary and became both able to communicate and at times even cohabit with the Prophets (who were after all, non linear, non temporal beings).

Her origins I'm unsure of. But what this proves is that she is part of Max's destiny. And remember this evidence is part of the alien's own info, not something even to do with freewill.

The challenge is to square the V shape and Venus with 4 Square. Does Max belong with Tess as the book says? or Liz as the visions and Aries constellation formation indicate? I would agrue the latter b/c as I said, the 4 Square is already accounted for. By bonding with Liz, changing her, possibly even allowing her to tap more deeply than any other human into her human powers (which remember r the pod squad's powers as well), Max has irrevocably made Liz part of his destiny. The deed is done, she will help them to save their people as well. I guarantee it.

max2000

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 288

05-10-2000 02:50 PM

Liz: My parents are away for the weekend. Something about Venus being in the morning sky.

Max: I thought she was right here in front me.

Her origins I'm unsure of. But what this proves is that she is part of Max's destiny. And remember this evidence is part of the alien's own info, not something even to do with freewill.

sterlingsilver Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 393

05-10-2000 02:53 PM

Absolutely. We're getting more clues all the time.

"He changed me." -Max to the Max

max2000

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 288

05-10-2000 02:55 PM

Liz: My parents are away for the weekend. Something about Venus being in the morning sky.

Max: I thought she was right here in front me.

Her origins I'm unsure of. But what this proves is that she is part of Max's destiny. And remember this evidence is part of the alien's own info, not something even to do with freewill.

Page2

jabberwocky Level 3

Registered: Jan 2000 Posts: 481

05-10-2000 11:46 PM

I think that there is something to Liz having an important role in the future of Max. The fact that Liz is able to see flashs from Max I can see because of the close bond that they have formed after Max had saved Liz's life, But in Ma to hte Max, Liz got flashs from kissing Nasedo/Max. How culd that be? Well I think that the idea that Liz was altered from Maxs healing her maybe an answer to that question. I also think that Liz was able to see Nasedo as he realy is from those flashs she had kissing him.

Linda Level 3

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 143

05-11-2000 02:06 AM

Facinating!!!! I have to agree with all of you! There IS something about Liz that is special. The clues you have all given so far...

1. Max drawn to her since the first time he met her. 2. She sees things even with Nasedo..so it's not just Max.. 3.Max saving her could have made her change and be more like the trio...who were said to be human only higher evolved or something.. thus.. Liz was already smart... so maybe now she is getting more from Max and their connection... 4. HER GRANDMOTHER!!! I really like this one!! All of the sitings and Nasedo's first real connection with people came from the reservation and the Native Americans such as RiverDog. I think there is a connection to the Native AMericans too. And LIz's grandma having written about the N.A... too coincidental! Grandmother not surprised that Liz might have found her soul mate.. and then at the end telling her to follow her heart...like she was trying to tell her something... she probably found something out or like someone said...maybe she has some alien blood or something... sooo many ways you can go with the grandma theme. But it's definitely there!!! Something!!! 5. I also love the v shape and 5 parts to is and Liz being venus and part of the whole equation. Amazing theory!!

This is an excellent thred!! Don't know why it took me so long to find it!!

I hope this bumps it up cause I want to hear more theories!!! Linda Crazy4Roswell@aol.com

Linda Level 3

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 143

05-11-2000 02:12 AM

Bump!

Linda Level 3

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 143

05-11-2000 02:17 AM

I don't see my last post... soo BUMP! again!!

Linda Level 3

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 143

05-11-2000 02:25 AM

Sorry...just trying to keep this up at the top! BUMP again!

Linda Level 3

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 143

05-11-2000 02:32 AM

One last bump for the night! BUMP!

sjton Level 1

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 35

05-11-2000 03:04 AM

I like the idea that Max somehow changed Liz. My personal thought is that Liz was already more evolved than most humans (ie. Her intelligence). Then when Max healed her and reversed the connection so she could see inside of him, somehow it awakened her evolved human mind, or maybe enhanced it.

Just a thought.

I am interested in seeing what they do with Liz's grandmother, as I believe she has more of a role then we know about. LSS, your theories are very thought provoking and interesting I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts.

Max2000 wrote: Now we know what 4 square symbol stands for, namely the complete pod squad (i.e. MMI + Tess). But what about Venus? Where does the fifth element fit in? Remember they do find what the V shape represents atronomically at around the time Tess shows up, but she is part of the 4 Square (i.e. she's already accounted for). Let's jump back to Balance and Max and Liz's first date for the answer. Remember Max and Liz are dancing:

Liz: My parents are away for the weekend. Something about Venus being in the morning sky.

Max: I thought she was right here in front me.

Liz is Venus. She completes the Aries constellation formation that has appeared in everyone's visions at one time or another. Everyone being the pod squad anyway. This means Liz in some sense has become part of Max et al's destiny. Despite what Tess's book says. She fits in the greater plan.

** Good point, this brings up some very unique questions about Destiny. Where does Liz fit in the Pod Squads destiny (I know this question has been asked before but I feel it must be asked again) Who is Max supposed to be with Tess or Liz? And what is the difference between alien destiny and human destiny?

silver.star Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 135

05-11-2000 05:13 AM

sjton: In regards to the alien destiny/human destiny-and IMHO the only difference I could even think of is freewill! I am not sure of the alien aspect of this yet (I have not had the time to actually think about it) but in humans (and again this is just my opinion) we are all born with a destiny/fate, there are paths in life we may have been choosen to take and well....things change.. you change at some point you take control and destiny (as one may say) changes. Everyday when you walk out your door your destiny can change. And all this is done out of FREEWILL. One of the many gifts that was given to us. And M/M/I are the majority HUMAN which gives them this gift. Does anyone get where I am coming from or is it just me???

silver.star Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 135

05-11-2000 05:17 AM

I must add that I think this is a great thread Zero. I enjoy reading all the view points. Roswell fans come up with the most interesting topics.

Emily_A Level 3

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 187

05-11-2000 06:44 AM

WOW! That's all I have to say... I am so completely amazed at the depth of thought being asserted here. Zero...by far this has been the most interesting thread I've read or posted on. Max2000...The 5th part and Venus...amazing observations that do indeed show Destiny can be altered.

If they were to stay with M/I and M/T as couples...where would the story line go? It's a dead end...anyway great thread! More thoughts!!! Please!

GraceKel Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 652

05-11-2000 07:00 AM

I am now starting to believe that LIZ is in fact Max's predestined mate(IN SEXUAL HEALING they showed 2 Liz and 2 Max in the mirror image to prove this I think). I am beginning to think that someone is trying to mess with this destiny-maybe that is why Liz got shot it was no accident!

In MORNING AFTER, Liz says,"HOW AM I SUPPOSE TO BECOME WHATEVER IT IS I AM SUPPOSE TO BECOME WHEN EVERYONE IS LOOKING" (I think she is suppose to become Max's destiny)

In LEAVING NORMAL, Liz says about her grandmother, "SHE IS THE BASIS OF MY EXISTENCE" I think this is key! Grandma talks to Liz about finding your soulmate (like she knows something) Liz says to her grandma "YOU ALWAYS MADE ME FEEL SO SPECIAL" because her grandmother knew she was special!

I think the V consellation allignment set off the biological drives of Liz and Max just as it was suppose to and they were meant to find the orb together. Because it is about them!

In Sexual Healing the chemistry teacher says "Miss Parker you are a really good student, I wouldn't let anything come between you and the beauty of the universe!" I think he is a friendly to their destiny and is warning them about Tess trying to come between them. Well guys what do you think? comingeysingwo

Liz Administrator

Registered: Sep 1999 Posts: 4087

05-11-2000 07:05 AM

Every time I see this topic name pop up on the front page, I go, "Huh?" Then I read it again, realize it has nothing to do with me, and move on...

Emily_A Level 3

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 187

05-11-2000 07:10 AM

I definatly think that Nasedo had something to do with Liz being shot and trying to alter her destiny...Did any one see my question on the first page that asked about the two "Alien Fanatics" that were at the Crashdown when Liz was shot and then came back during the convention? They did their share of meddling, I wonder if it could be Tess and Nasedo? Thoughts?

GraceKel Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 652

05-11-2000 07:11 AM

LOL Liz the moderator-you're pretty important to us around here too!

Emily_A Level 3

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 187

05-11-2000 09:25 AM

bumping to keep on top!

Linda Level 3

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 143

05-11-2000 11:21 AM

I love reading this thread and everyone's thoughts!

The only thing that makes me say that the two ufo nuts, Larry and Jennifer were not Nasedo and Tess, is that Tess right now seems sooo clueless to what Nasedo is really up to or what he can do. In MttM she is shocked that Nasedo can kill with a hand? She confuses me.But Jennifer seemed different. More intelligent? On the ball? Who knows!

But I do like the idea that Nasedo tried to have Liz killed knowing that she could be Max'human destiny!

And I love the idea that Max and Liz were supposed to have their hormones awaken in SH and that Liz IS of the higher humans.

And yes... I feel that Liz's Grandma and the Native American connection are definitely related to the whole Alien dimension.

Linda Keep the ideas coming guys!!

SallyKins Level 3

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 255

05-12-2000 07:33 AM

Great thread!

I definitely believe Liz is connected in some way to Max's destiny because it was only after Liz was shot that Max, Michael and Isabel began to discover more about their past.

1) Max had been very discreet about his powers until he used them to save Liz.

2) Liz was the one to first go to the Indian reservation. Max once again used his powers when he thought Liz was being threatened--which was the key to getting information about Nasedo and the cave.

3) Liz helped Max find the communicator. Max, Michael and Isabel would never have found it themselves. I think the communicator is going to play a vital role in the future.

I don't think Nasedo shot Liz at the Crasdown (as much as I think it is a cool theory) because I am pretty sure he didn't find Max, Michael and Isabel until after Michael made his smoke signal in "Blind Date".

--Sally

Emily_A Level 3

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 187

05-12-2000 08:49 AM

Sally - that's a good thought about Nasedo not finding them until the smoke signal... I still think he had something to do with it, maybe he just didn't make himself known to anyone until then...just my thoughts! Em

RosJenn Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 175

05-12-2000 09:19 AM

Wow! I am so impressed by this thread - I can't believe it took me so long to find it.

Your insights are all incredible and I sure hope the clues you've all discovered are really part of the creators "master plan" - and not just us fans grasping at straws.

I'd really like to see the thoughts about Liz's grandmother explored more. Last night I was thinking that every character and every episode serves a specific purpose and I was wondering what the purpose of "Leaving Normal" was. At first I thought it was just to establish the idea of soulmates and to establish the ethics of using powers to heal people, but after reading this thread I'm wondering if there was more to that episode than meets the eye.

There is so much left to explore - I really hope the future of Roswell is secure so we have time to do that

asdf Level 4

Registered: Nov 1999 Posts: 501

05-12-2000 09:28 AM

Dang max_2000! That was some pretty impressive speculation since I would have never picked that up! I'm really interested in your Liz being Venus and completing the constellations in the sky. That would be really cool if the writers had that planned that way in advance just to show that Liz is part of Max's destiny.

And I thought that Max was just saying he thought Liz was pretty...

I agree that Liz could have been changed during the shotting but I'll repeat what I posted earlier ...then why hasn't RiverDog also been affected somehow? After all he was healed by Michae. So doesn't that mean he was changed inside also?

Emily_A Level 3

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 187

05-12-2000 09:40 AM

Maybe something happened with River Dog when Nasedo was around in the 50's? So maybe he's all ready changed...?

Zero Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 154

05-12-2000 09:41 AM

What great theories about how Liz fits into the mythology!! I especially like the thought that Liz is Venus! So observant! I can hardly wait to see what happens Monday night - maybe more clues. And you never know - I've read that people from the show read this site - maybe some of our ideas will be incorporated into next year's (I'm optimistic ) shows!! The look on little Max's face as he gets off the bus and sees Liz for the first time haunts me - there was an immediate connection from his point of view from day one!!

redhawk Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 139

05-12-2000 09:58 AM

Max2000 - You are so perceptive. I love your theory about Liz and Venus. I never noticed the Venus comment in Balance. I really need to get that one on tape. I do hope the writers have had the forethought with this Venus thing and it is not a coincidence. But how many coincidences could there be?

max2000

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 288

05-12-2000 10:57 AM

I need to clarify something about my thinking on Liz as Venus. Obviously Max was saying she's pretty. I'm not implying he knows she is a part of his destiny. Obviously he doesn't, and neither do we. In that sense, I am purely speculating. We will probably not get an answer to this question this season I don't think, unless the full signifiicance of the Aries star formation is revealed in Destiny, which I kinda doubt.

Despite the show's increased pace since at least Crazy, and I would argue since Sexual Healing, remember how many symbols from the cave painting are left to be resolved. So far we know the following. We have 4 Square. We have the swirls from Atherton's pendant, which Nasedo gave him actually (and which I think representthe Whirlwind Galaxy where the pod squad may be from). Finally, we have the V shape that led the pod squad to the ship in 4 Square. That is assuming the pods in the rock we saw are the inside of the ship.

And remember there are at least 3 or 4 other symbols from the cave painting in Balance that haven't even been revealed yet. And I don't think the V formation's significance has been fully explored in and of itself, either. So we are left with an as yet incomplete puzzle, and a seeming paradox between two of the symbols we have been given so far. How do you reconcile 4 Square for the pod squad (including Tess) with the 5 elements in the V shape? It is not Nasedo, I'm sure of that. And I don't think it's Backstreet either. I won't say more about him than that b/c this is not a spoiler thread. So please don't edit my post mods.

Honestly my theory is a little more complicated than Liz being Max's destiny. I do think Tess was intended by the alien species to be Max's mate. That is spelled out pretty clearly in the book she shows him. Based on the trailer for Destiny, that seems to be the unhappy note us dreamers will be left to sulk with this summer.

But that's why I say I don't think we will get a full answer to the significance of Venus in this last ep. It is more likely that the answer will come out next season or at some point in the future. Tess did show up at the time that Venus enters the Aries constellation formation, as explored in 4 Square. But remember Venus is native to this star system (as is Liz), not another one like the other 4 stars in the constellation (as are the pod squad, whether they're human or not). Secondly it is a planet, not a star. Planet probably means human. Star does not. Ergo, Tess doesn't seem to qualify as Venus. Liz does on both counts.

And to be honest, Liz probably does seem to represent free will here. Max could go with Tess ("his preodained mate"), but then the V formation wouldn't be complete. And someone would be missing from his life, someone who probably is the key to helping them get home and to saving their people, and possibly the human race as well. The reason for this maybe as simple as the fact that are on Earth, and the show, it's future battles with the government or aliens for that matter is occuring on Earth, the terrain of pure humans. Liz has bonded with an a pod squader more intensely than any of the other pure humans. And in the process she has already irrevocably changed Max's destiny.

That's why this piece of the puzzle is so important. But the puzzle is so intricate we cannot get a full explanation of its various parts or even the full siginificance of this one part in just this first season. The odds are however that Liz is at least this piece of the puzzle herself. And the ironic thing is, as the fifth part of the Aries star formation, she completes the seemingly perfect shape of the 4 Square. The perfect shape is in fact the V or a pentagon. Not a a square. As in that corny Bruce Willis movie from 1998, she is the 5th element.

[This message has been edited by max2000 (edited 05-12-2000).]

Whiteotter Level 3

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 113

05-12-2000 11:17 AM

Good comments guys! I wanted to contribute a little bit of greek mythology. Behr with me as I explain...

The Venus/Aries joint constellation may not make sense from an astronomical point of view, but astrologically it's accompanied by some heavy mythology. Aries is ruled by Ares, the god of war. Armies used to pay tribute to the god in the hopes of ensuring his help in battle. In ancient greek mythology Ares was madly in love with Aphrodite, who of course is the ruler of Venus. Max is nothing like Ares at this point: Ares was selfish, bloodlusty and liked to win at any cost. But he was definetly a leader. I just wanted to bring up that connection since we're examining Liz's connection to Venus.

Unfortunately for Ares, Aphrodite another god (Hephaestus, Zeus' handicapped son), so all of Ares' and Aphrodite's trysts were forever passionate, adulterous and brief. All the other gods were well aware of the situation,however (except for Aphrodite's husband), and no one seemed to mind.

GraceKel Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 652

05-12-2000 11:10 PM

Has anyone noticed at the end of SH eppy outside the Crashdown when Max and Liz hold hands there is a shadow on the other side of the street on a building which looks like that rock we have been seeing so much of and also when they enter the crashdown holding hands to face their parents-if you look in the background-a shadow of this V shape and even right at the end it looks like a pic of the tower they just went to to find the orb. There is so much symbolism in this show if I stop long enough to take my eyes off Max and Liz. What about the pic of the women with long dark hair in Liz's bedroom, also a similar pic in grandma's hospital room, and it looks similar to Hubble's wife. During SH when Liz's mother comes in to have that sex talk with Liz right beside mothers face they show a good image of this pic in her room-hmmmmm! I remember having fleeting thoughts about parents going on a star gazing campout of Venus in the morning sky but now it makes you really wonder! WOW! Maybe Liz's mother was not having an innocent conversation about sex--maybe she wanted to know if Liz was fulfilling her destiny, "I want you to know you don't ever have to lie to me about this!" hmmmmmm!

thescoobygang Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 344

05-12-2000 11:48 PM

First things first: WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO!!!! Roswell has just been renewed for at least another 13 episodes! This means the Liz mystery shall continue in the fall. *settles down*

Ok so I'm too wired to think straight right now. But I do still have some theories that I will share later. In the meantime, here are some pics that provoke some thought:

1. Max at age 6? seeing Liz for the very first time. Why does Max focus on her in a crowded schoolyard of children? To me, it looks like a moment of odd recognition in his eyes rather than a simple schoolboy crush.

2. An image of Sheila Hubble as seen through Liz's vision in Max to the Max. Does anybody have any idea why this memory was flashed in Liz's mind? After all, she was kissing him at the time....so why would this memory stand out for Nasedo? Significance??

thescoobygang Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 344

05-12-2000 11:55 PM

Yikes!! I didn't think the pictures would look so creepy when put together like that! eeeeerie *shiver*. But pretty powerful visions. Two visions both seen by Liz. There is definitely something to this.

scooby

GracieRae Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 46

05-13-2000 12:36 AM

Hey Zero I don't have anything intelligent to for anyone to interpret just wanted to say I agree with ya bud there is definately more between Liz and Max than meets the eye. By the way are you the same Zero that helped me out at the Bronze a while back?

Breathless Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 227

05-13-2000 12:49 AM

I definitely agree that Max changed Liz when he healed/connected to her. One thing I’ve been wondering about since Leaving Normal is the book that Grandma wrote. It was called "Lost Treasures" by Claudia Parker and Liz said it was the first findings about the Navaho Indians in hundreds of years. Liz also said it would be in the American Journal of Archeology. I always expected this book to be something significant. I mean it could have been a book of poetry, but no, it was about Indian Archeology. It just seemed like an important clue at the time. With the introduction of Riverdog and the cave drawings, I thought Liz would one day be flipping through Grandma’s book and find the symbols from the cave. I thought this would lead to Max discovering how to read the symbols. Then we could speculate how Grandma discovered the symbols, and what her connection to everything might have been. But 17 episodes later, the book has never been mentioned again.

I still think it would be cool if Liz found the symbols in Grandma’s book, discovered that what they actually meant was not what Tess and Nasedo said they meant and had to save Max, Michael and Isabel from their evil clutches.

Arctic Lurker Level 3

Registered: Nov 1999 Posts: 224

05-13-2000 03:54 PM

Breathless: I really like your idea about Grandma Claudia's book containing the key to the symbols. I hope it happens. I can't remember if she said she had just finished it or if it had already been published. Guess I'll just have to rewatch that tape.

asdf: You asked why River Dog wasn't affected by Michael's healing power. I think that the change in Liz was for two reasons. First she was near death and required a lot more healing...you could see the incredible pain and intensity in Max's face. River Dog simply had a sprained ankle, a little jolt to knit it and all's well. More importantly though, I think that Liz was changed in the connection scene with Max. As Max said, and I really think he meant it more than just romantically, "We saw into each other's souls." I really believe that is where the deeper change occured. Max also said that he had never tried this (the connection) before, but he may have done some other healing (the sparrow). I know that Michael had visions of a young Maria, but I feel that he was seeing into Maria's memory rather than into her soul. Of course I could certainly be wrong.

LizEvans13 Level 1

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 45

05-13-2000 07:14 PM

Wow, this topic is amazing! All these theories have been well thought out and you have good reasons to back them. A lot of intelligent and observant people here. But I mostly wanted to say- Max, I finally get your theory. It was a little more well-explained here than when we were chatting, and I was a lot more tired then (LOL). But I see what you're saying. To the rest of you guys, keep the theories coming, we'll see what happens next season (YAY!)

~*~ Liz Evans 13 ~*~

CedarCircle Level 2

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 62

05-13-2000 08:18 PM

Until The White Room I liked the hypothesis that Liz was shot by Nasedo. His conversation with Michael (Michael: "I've been looking for you for a long time." etc.) makes it clear that he didn't know where the pod squad was until the FBI started investigating the shooting. If he had known about Max, there would have been easier and less public ways to contact him and draw him out. Oh well.

This thread brought up the possibility that, like Liz, River Dog had been changed. This fits in with something I've been wondering about for a while. I mentioned to a Native American friend that I thought it was kind of hokey how River Dog went by a Native name while Eddie and the deputy had English ones. She told me that in her tribe they had Native names to use within the tribe, and English ones to use with the outside world. That River Dog uses only his Native name suggests that he is somehow transcendent; beyond the experience of others in some way.

Like others on this thread, I think that the Native American connection will come back into play next season. It very well could be that both Max's healing touch AND her ancestry make Liz the Venus that completes the alien's destiny.

[This message has been edited by CedarCircle (edited 05-13-2000).]

krazy4BF

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 30

05-14-2000 12:53 AM

I am amazed at the interesting speculations on this page. It's definitely something to think about. I believe Liz was meant to help the pod squad discover where they came from. Also, we are hearing alot of "it was meant to be" but nothing about human free will. Since Max, Isabel adn Michael had somewhat normal childhoods, maybe that changed everything that was "meant to be." And when you factor in love (a supremely human emotion) maybe that upset the cosmic plan.

I'm not sure but i'll continue to speculate.

Zero Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 154

05-14-2000 10:56 PM

I don't have much time, but I wanted to bump this up and throw out a few thoughts. First - thanks to everyone with such well thought out theories!

Now for the clues I picked up rewatching some epsiodes Friday while I cleaned out kids closets (what fun!). Dates - Crash happened in 1947, but Hubble's wife was killed in 1970 (date on the license and on the computer search by Valentie). For the Liz to be 16ish, she would have to have been born in 1984ish - and the pob squad must have hatched around 1990ish.

Hubble had bought his firewords from an old Indian off the road - Nasedo??

In the Camping episode - sorry I'm not great with names of episode - when Max and Micheal go to pay their bill, and Maria is making some lame story up about dates with some college boys - in the backgroung is the song by Vertical Horizons (I think it's them??) that goes "He means something to you, but you don't know why. He means everything to you. He's everything you need. What you've been waiting for." Obvious that the writers are dropping us messages to come to the conclusion that Liz and Max important to each other - "but you don't know why!"

thescoobygang Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 344

05-14-2000 11:49 PM

Zero Honestly, we must be on the same wavelength or something, because I've been thinking about the Indian thing too.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Hubble: It was our first anniversary. She told me she had a surprise for me. I had one for her. I took the last of my paycheck from the refinery, and bought some fireworks from an old Indian over by the side of the road off the highway......She never did get my surprise. And I never did get hers. Not until I got a copy of the coroner's report. There it was in black ink. 3 months pregnant. A little girl, it said. She was carrying our child.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, it does seem a little suspicious that the Indian was conveniently there at night selling fireworks. I've often wondered if that could have been Nasedo who then followed them to the diner. If the child was Nasedo's and he knew that Sheila was going to tell her husband about the baby, this would pose a threat. And we all know what Nasedo does when he is threatened by revelation.

But the only problem with this theory is the dates. How Liz can be connected is still unclear because of the time frame. I wonder what happened to Sheila Hubble's body? Was she buried, or do you think the FBI could have come in and taken her dead body and altered the coroner's report? They could have extracted alien DNA from her body if it was Nasedo's child.

hmmmmm.....wild theory I know. But everything about this show is unconventional.

Tequila Level 2

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 63

05-15-2000 06:13 AM

I'm really impressed with all of the theories zooming around here and something just occurred to me, so I thought I'd throw my two cents in. Here goes:

Maybe Nacedo wasn't just looking for the Pod Squad, maybe he was sent to assassinate someone. He knew what SHE looked like, physically, but didn't know her name or when she would be born (kind of like in Terminator, only vice versa). So, for arguments sake, this Hubble's been on the lookout for Nasedo. Nasedo sees this, starts following Hubble, and sees him with this beautiful, long brown haired woman, and thinks maybe this is the one he's supposed to assassinate. He does the deed, only WHOOPS, wrong person. So now he's spent the last few decades looking for the right woman, and along comes Liz, a beautiful long brown haired woman, who coincidentally happens to be hanging out with the Pod Squad AND has connected with one of them. Coincidence? I think not. If this theory is correct (probably not since it's waaay early on a Monday morning, too much Tequila & too much anticipation for Destiny)there would be questions to ponder: 1)Someone posted that there was a picture in Liz's room a brunette, and one in the hospital as well(I'll have to go watch those eps. again, oh the sacrifice).

2)Just how many brunette's have been killed since 1947 in order to find the right one?

3)What significance does this brunette have to be hunted down for decades by Nacedo?

Of course, I could be wrong. And if someone has posted this already, then I'm sorry. It's just something that's been bothering me for a while. And besides, I've been trying to think up a way to post something on this facinating thread, with such fascinating people.

Bottoms up, Dana

ChaseatTaos Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 140

05-15-2000 06:15 AM

Personally I think that there is definetely something up with Liz being more important than we have previously been led to believe.

Allison

TexasPride Level 2

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 77

05-15-2000 03:26 PM

I really don't think Liz's body has been changed or anything like that. After the accident in the jeep she too was looked at by a doctor and by then there would have been the physical changes noticed in blood samples etc but that didn't happen. I think its just a matter of Max has had a crush on her a long time .. he was raised as a human and on many levels has the same emotions as any other human. Given that he is now torn between the biological preprogrammed sexual attractive to his alien preordained mate, Tess, and his genuine and deep love and affection for his a Liz (the human) I think he is very torn at the moment about who he is and what side does he want to give in to. His human side.. or is alien side. I don't think Liz's body having had gone through a sudden internal mutation is likely. Interesting thought though.

TexasPride Level 2

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 77

05-15-2000 03:32 PM

Page3

provence Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 931 05-15-2000 03:38 PM []

My theory of Liz seeing Hubble's wife in her flash when Kissing Nasedo.

There was supposed to be a Tess - but she died in the pods. Nasedo discovers this on a routine check in of the pod squad. So Nasedo improvises and kills Hubble's wife for the fetus - to create another hybrid - the Tess we know. She didn't come out of the pods when the others did because the clone hybrid wasn't ready yet. And since she's a clone of a hybrid she could be defective. She only knows what Nasedo tells her - And maybe Tess was to be Max's pre-determined mate - but Liz is now Max's mate. There is destiny and there is pre-arranged destiny. Liz is Max's destiny because the original Tess died in the pod. Nasedo is trying to recreate what was pre-determined with his hybrid - but Destiny has already changed. Once the real Tess died - the connection to Max was broken as well which explains why this Nasedo tess has to project images for Max to see. And he's drawn to her out of memory but not out of any existing physical or meta-physical bond.

TexasPride Level 2

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 77 05-15-2000 04:03 PM []

provence Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 931 05-15-2000 04:29 PM []

oops!

[This message has been edited by provence (edited 05-15-2000).]

marclyn Level 3

Registered: Nov 1999 Posts: 460 05-16-2000 01:42 PM []

Provance your suggestion is plausible. I can see that happening because hubble's wife is not the only person Nasedo killed, why did she just get an image of her.

Texaspride I don't remember the doctor taking blood samples of Liz after the accident in blood brothers, so I'm hard press to agree with your reasoning. I agree something happen to change Liz when Max saved her. She is the only one, beside Michael and Isabel that senses Max and experiences his every emotion. Tess believes that she and Max is connected but I have to say that he is more connected to Liz than anyone else.

marclyn Level 3

Registered: Nov 1999 Posts: 460 05-16-2000 01:48 PM []

Provance your suggestion is plausible. I can see that happening because hubble's wife is not the only person Nasedo killed, why did she just get an image of her.

JKBosco Level 4

Registered: Jan 1999 Posts: 614 05-16-2000 02:26 PM []

Go provence!

I think Liz definitely plays into the whole alien/destony thing. Really, Max has affected more than just her heart, he unleashed his alien powers on her body so she must be physically changed. They can't just forget about her or things could go bad down the line (hence the second season! )

What worries me is: Is Kyle now affected in the same way? Is Kyle going to fall in love with Max? Ummm...J/K, but you know what I mean.

JKBosco Level 4

Registered: Jan 1999 Posts: 614 05-16-2000 02:42 PM []

Go provence!

What worries me is: Is Kyle now affected in the same way? Is Kyle going to fall in love with Max? Ummm...J/K, but you know what I mean.

Zero Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 154 05-17-2000 12:43 AM

Bump!

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-17-2000 05:49 AM

I love this thread .......bump!

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-17-2000 05:51 AM

I love this thread .......bump!

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-17-2000 05:52 AM

I love this thread .......bump!

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-17-2000 05:56 AM

Bump again!

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-17-2000 05:56 AM

Bump again!

BehrAll Level 4

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 532 05-17-2000 06:29 AM []

Just a thought re evidence of an altered Liz ... Maybe I need to go watch it again, but in White Room, how did Liz know that Maria and Alex had arrived at the crashdown?

When she ran into the front, Maria was just getting to the door. Do you guys remember hearing anything that would have alerted Liz?

Someone who was watching it with me actually thought that Liz was one of the "aliens" because she was telepathic, and I was hard pressed to explain why she wasn't. Telepathic, I mean. So, could she be?

BTW -- OT, but it kind of ticked me off that Maria and Alex greet their "best" friend who's ONLY JUST been kidnapped and hugely traumatized, PLUS she tells them the love of her life has been taken by the scariest people they can think off ... so they ignore her and go straight to Mi&I?

Gee, I can tell they're incredibly close and care for each other, can't you? (And as soon as I find a suitably sarcastic and disgusted smilie I'm coming back and posting it.)

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-17-2000 08:44 AM

Here's something else that might mean Tess used her powers to confuse the pod squad in Destiny......

#1. She said that being around Nasedo had taught her how to use her powers alot BUT, she never let them know what else she could do?!

#2. She made the two agents see Pierce at the same time. This could have been ment to clue us in on her ability to change what they all saw when the orbs were activated!

Hmmm, let's think up some more theories! This is fun!

intoaliens

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 19 05-17-2000 08:54 AM

I love this thread, but fear I will be frustrated if the this issues are not addressed next season. There seem to be tons of unanswered questions and I need to know the answers!

It's also blatantly obvious to me that I am not watching as closely as I should be, because I miss a lot!

Miss Roswell Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 278 05-17-2000 10:05 AM []

Remember in TLV, Liz sensed that Max was near when he outside talking to the gang before he went to Tess' house. I really think something in her changed when Max 'healed' her. Why else would she be sensing these things?

I don't know, just a thought.

Miss Roswell Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 278 05-17-2000 10:07 AM []

I don't know, just a thought.

Miss Roswell Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 278 05-17-2000 10:19 AM []

I don't know, just a thought.

thescoobygang Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 345 05-17-2000 05:05 PM

Ok, I have had the absolute worse time trying to post on the board since Monday morning. I'm dying to talk about everything. But for now I'll start with this.

I'm a huge fan of good dialogue, when it comes to television, so I pay close attention to everything said when it comes to Roswell. All season-long there have been odd comments made by the characters that arouse suspicion. Here are some of them:

Sexual Healing Maria: ...how do you know that he's(Max) not like using you? Liz: Maria, because it.....it feels right. It feels right in a way that NOTHING has felt right in my life before.

A very interesting comment. Here we have a young woman who is attractive, intelligent, has good friends, a job and 2 loving parents. And I assume she's somewhat popular since she dated Kyle. And yet her life has never seemed "right"? She almost seems aware that her own human destiny is incomplete and that finding Max has completed a part of her she knew was "missing".

Now here's something from Max that is revealing. It was said in The Pilot.

When Max confronts Liz about healing her in the diner he says, "I can't imagine how you must feel right now, I mean, I've thought about telling you(the truth) a thousand times."

So he's thought about telling Liz the truth about his alien identity a thousand times before? That's a thousand times before he saved her. A thousand times before he even really spoke to her before. He wanted to tell a perfect stranger a world-shattering truth that would endanger his life, his sister's, and his friend's? No. It doesn't make sense. Unless of course Max felt this CONNECTION to Liz PRIOR to the shooting. A connection that led him to the diner that day so he could save her life.

In Leaving Normal Max says to Liz: "when I saved you, it was because you were shot, and there was a bullet in you. Something was happening to you that wasn't supposed to happen. It was before your time."

Hmmmmmm...sounds like Max is talking about destiny there doesn't it?

Zero Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 154 05-18-2000 10:35 AM

Thescoobygang - I love dialog too! In the last episode Tess makes a comment to Liz that has been bugging me. Liz is asking about Tess' ability to project the images to the agents, and ask something like "Is is hard?" Tess' reply is (not exact quote) "Sometimes it is easier to make people see what isn't there, than to make someone see something that is right in front of her eyes." I felt this was obviously pointed towards Liz, and her place in the mythology - but I guess we will learn more next year! I love all the ideas and theories coming out - there is a great one on another thread about Liz being the reincarnation (or along that lines) of Max's lost love on the other planet, and also one about Liz being somehow connected with the enemy race but a love of Max - which would truly play into the Romeo/Juliet theme. I still think there is more to the Grandma connection, and the enemy aliens have been around for a while. Also, Max's connection to Liz was there from the start - it did not begin with the healing - that just deapened the connection. The comment from Max about wanting to tell Liz a 1,000 times is interesting - remember they were Lab Partners before the healing - and both honor students - so acquainted with each other prior to the healing - Max just played everything close to his vest out of fear of discovery and honor of his friends - he was afraid to get close to Liz until the healing - that opened the floodgates. Okay - I've got to get some work done - I hope this posts!!

spiritwolf Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 14 05-18-2000 10:43 AM []

First I have to say how great this thread is. I agree with so many of the contributors. And WOW, some of the observations are things that I just glossed over ... thanks for pointing them out.

I know this is a Lis thread so I will try to keep it there.

I've been thinking about the humans and how all this started... Everything began when Max, through a selfless act of love, saved Liz. Everything that has happened to the Pod Squad since has been forced upon them. They have had to react to outside forces. Their acts of courage have been a matter of survival.

But the humans have acted equally as bravely, constantly placing themselves in the "line of fire" as well and have done so, not because they had to but because of the love and devotion they have developed for the Pod Squad and each other.

So who is really the stronger and braver of the group? The humans. They act not out of the necessity for survival but rather out of selfless love and devotion. Any one of them could have run for cover at any time, but has not.

I can think of at least two instances when Liz has told Max,."I'm not asking permission, Max". She is acting of her own free will, and no one is going to deter her from it. I believe that next season our plucky Liz will straighten her back and tell the Pod Squad, that destiny be damned, she is not leaving. From the theme song "Here with Me: "I'll do what I want, but .... I won't go ....I won't leave, I can't hide, I cannot be....."

We have had a lot of thought go into the changes in Liz as a result of Max saving her. But I think the humanizing of the aliens is equally significant. I would like to ask folks to think about the possibly more significant changes that have occurred in the Pod Squad as a result of their contact, physical and emotional, with the human partners.

Max himself has said more than once that his life began the day he saved Liz. And that she has helped him become more human. Isabel has come out of her shell so much, due in no small part to Alex and his honest feelings for her.And even our dear, tumultuous Michael has gone from someone who needs and wants no one close to openly admitting his love for Maria.

So I think that not only is Liz of ultimate significance to the Pod Squad, so too are the other human partners.

What do ya think.

Thanks for humoring me.

jen_a4 Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 20 05-18-2000 11:20 AM []

First off i would like to say this is a very good topic! I would also like to say i love Roswell. About the Liz being more important thing i got some ideas. Did n/e 1 ever notice how Tess was always around when Max or n/e one had a flash of Tess being in the pods. I mean she does have the power to make people see things. Maybe someone else was in the pod. I don't think it was Liz just because of how things are going so far. But i do think that she is meant for Max. I mean they are human right so what if Max's destiny on earth is to be with Liz. Maybe Tess and is part of the evil alien group and knows something about Liz so she's trying to break them up. Another idea is to do with that day when Max saved Liz. Maybe he changed her into what he is. I dunno its just an idea. I just can't seem to understand why she is the only one getting flashes. I mean maybe she was the one who helped them find the comunicator right? I think that Liz plays a way bigger part. In addition to the Michael thing, I think Michael is different. I mean he hurts people, i haven't seem him use any power that helps someone. Max and Isabel are both healers in a way. So i think your right Michael is different. In addition to that thing about the wife getting killed for no reason. Maybe she is part of the enemy aliens. Maybe Liz is her daughter. Maybe it's like Romeo and Juliet, you whats going on with Max and Liz. I know these are crazy ideas but i love talking bout Roswell. All my friends think i'm crazy cause i talk about the show so much. N/e ways does n/e one know if you can get spoilers for next season cause i just can't what. And how do i get to that room that you all are talking bout??? Someone please respond to my ideas!!!!

Zero Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 154 05-18-2000 01:40 PM

Okay, this has to be my last post of today! As we all know - how Liz really fits in is up to the writers for next year - but there have been too many "hints" dropped on us for Liz to not be more important than first brush would lead to believe. As far as Hubble's wife being part of the enemy aliens' race - great idea! Liz her daughter? The timing is wrong (killed 1970; Liz was born in 1984-ish) - but anything is possible!! I still like that Romeo & Juliet twist - but with a happy ending this time! Also - Nasedo's reaction to Liz is always a bit odd - now of course, Nasedo is odd to begin with - but he seems to react to Liz more than the other humans. Did you notice how he reacted to her being in the cave? Finally, a new thought that (I don't think) hasn't been discussed here yet - Tess says that Nasedo can not be killed. If this is the case, then what happened to the 3 other aliens that were on the ship. Pierce said that 2 died and 2 lived - Nasedo escaped, and nothing is mentioned about the fate of the other (though my imagination dreads the disection possibility). Anyway - IF Nasedo can not be killed, why wouldn't that go for the others, too. They may be out there, too. We don't know for sure that it was Nasedo that burned the picture, killed Hank the foster father or saw Liz and Max together out in the desert - we all assumed it was him, but would Tess have known something about this and been in town by then. Maybe that was another alien?? Maybe with a direct connection to Liz?? The plot thickens!!!

thescoobygang Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 345 05-18-2000 07:13 PM

I can see from the number of Destiny threads on the board that this particular episode has really thrown everyone off their rocker. *lol* Season enders NEVER make sense. So it should come as no surprise that Destiny was a real looper. Back to square one. Writers always write their first seasons to go full circle to cover all the angles(eg. cancellation or renewal)

Since everyone is having fun with the theory game I will throw down the gauntlet and go all out.

***the theory Max has the "essence" of a pre-existing alien who is now dead right? First of all, I don't think this essence is some sort of cosmic DNA goo they injected into clones. I think it has more to do with energy forces and a collective conscious------something, or anything that would better explain the transference of powers, memories and feelings.

So let's pretend this pre-existing alien came to earth on a scouting mission. He was a shapeshifter, so he travelled in the guise of a human male. What if he met and fell in love with a human woman? But one day the woman has an accident and almost dies, except he saves her life by connecting with her. He realizes the repercussions of his actions and leaves Earth. He returns to his world to fight in the war and dies. The other aliens transfer his essence so that he is re-incarnated into the Max clone.

Back on earth, what if the woman was Claudia Parker? She eventually got married and had a son who in turn later had a daughter---Liz. So Liz inherits the connection her grandmother had with the alien. Max, who has the dead alien's memories deep within him, saves Liz's life at the diner. In doing so, he has re-established the connection that once existed between their "souls" many years ago. He has awakened her inner self---which explains Liz's physical changes & sudden infatuation with Max. This is why the destiny with Tess cannot be fulfilled. There is already a past love story being reborn again. Does this mean Liz & Max are mere puppets to a fate and love not of their own making? NO. Since the essence was placed in a HUMAN body instead of another alien body, Max is still his own person. He is not a remake or clone in the literal sense. He is something new, something better, and stronger than what previously existed. His alien essence may have led him to Liz, but it is his human desire for Liz's love that has bonded their fate together.

So there you have it! The latest installment on a whole slew of theories I have. BTW thanks for humouring me on some of these far out concepts. I'm actually thinking of starting a fan thread, called The Sci-Fi Squad for sci-fi junkies like us who follow the SF story. Boy wouldn't that be interesting!

spiritwolf Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 14 05-18-2000 08:30 PM []

OMG thescoobygang. Your latest posted theory is way too good!!! Gramdmother Parker and the Nat Am connection cannot be ignored.

Thanks for the seeds. We'll just have to see where the writers take us, but I like you path.

brokgal Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 36 05-18-2000 08:50 PM

GREAT JOB EVERYBODY.....THIS SHOW IS SO GREAT....THAT MAKES US WANT TO USE OUR BRAIN CELLS. Here is my theory.....i think both grandma and liz's mom both know about the alien thing....because they both didn't get along when they were introduced to each other...here is the scene:

MRS. PARKER: Hey Claudia.

GRANDMA: Nancy, oh it's so good to see you. Hey, come with us. We're going upstairs to catch up.

MRS. PARKER: Really? Should I?

LIZ: Yeah, definitely. C'mon mom.

MRS. PARKER: I don't think so...I have a lot of laundry to do so...

I remember the first time i saw this scene i always wondered why they both didn't really get along....here is why i think they don't get along.....MRS.PArker....knows about the alien thing and wants to protect liz...example in liz's bedroom and in school after max and liz get caught making out in the eraser room..her mom just looked just so shooked up about the whole thing...she was so scared......and she really dosen't get along with grandma because grandma wants liz to follow her heart and be with her soulmate........and follow her destiny....But mrs. parker is scared about the whole thing and just wants liz to be safe...i would love to hear your thoughts on this......

GraceKel Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 652 05-18-2000 09:00 PM []

I don't think the guy out in the desert when they woke up was Mr HArding-he looked happy that they were together-probably because the right parties came for the orb? So Zero if that is what you are trying to say I agree with you. I also believe the bond was there before the healing-show Max coming off bus almost recognizing Liz for some REASON! The healing and the reverse connection cemented it but it was already there I agree. Liz is Max's true destiny that evils within are trying to tamper with for their own agendas. Another proof of this is in TLV Max says to Liz, "you're the one, Liz, the only one I could ever be with, I'VE ALWAYS KNOWN IT!" Always knowing it is key! Along with other things I posted about Liz saying "IT FEELS RIGHT LIKE NOTHING ELSE IN MY LIFE ......." This does not mean that Liz is an alien only that she is Max's true destiny---how it connects to GRANDMA, HUBBLES WIFE (WHO LOOKS A LOT LIKE LIZ) I don't know yet but there is something---and the INDIAN CONNECTION TOO!

jabberwocky Level 3

Registered: Jan 2000 Posts: 481 05-18-2000 09:25 PM []

With thescoobygang earlier comments regarding the conection that Max and Liz share, I believe that the frist time they see each other setup the initial conection between the two that both were not quite aware of, but one that was strong enough that both knew that they were not happy with the way their lives were going until the time that Max went and saved Liz's life. Which only causde the bond or conection they have to became stronger. As to why these two have this conection well what is truely fate?

brokgal Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 36 05-18-2000 09:26 PM

BUMP!

brokgal Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 36 05-18-2000 09:53 PM

BUMP!

brokgal Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 36 05-18-2000 10:20 PM

BUMP!

brokgal Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 36 05-19-2000 11:37 AM

BUMP!

jen_a4 Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 20 05-19-2000 01:01 PM []

Ok, doesn n/e 1 remember in TLV when Liz opened the box of pictures and they were all of Max? Well why? I mean i know that Tess thinks they're destined to be with eachother but it just doesn't make sense!! I mean she didn't need to spy on the guy. Another thing that botherd me was in TLV once again. When Isabel comes to Tess's house and Tess and her Father (Nasedo) are in the kitchen alone he asks her what Isabel is doing there. Like she was the enemy. Did n/e one else notice this. Another thing that is really weird is when Nasedo helped Liz out in the Mirror Maze in M2M. Why i mean he said it himself, "All I care about is protecting them" So why did he protect her. I think Nasedo is good i mean he wouldn't have saved Max if he wasn't. But i think there is more to him too. I also think that whoever said something about Tess not being the real person in the other chamber is right. I mean she looks way too different. I mean you look and Isabel and Michael they both have like a dark blonde light brown hair colour and brown eyes. Then you look at Tess and she has blonde hair with blue eyes. Now i don't think Liz was the other alien but i don't think tess is either. I think she is some how tricking everyone, even Nasedo into believing it. I also don't think Nasedo recreated someone, because if he did then he would know their destiny and then he would try and break Max and Liz up. Also in the White Room, when someone said that Liz sensed Alex and Maria, that isn't true. She was facing the door and saw them come in. Also in TLV i don't think she was looking at Max i think she was looking at the broken sculpture. But hey i could be wrong. Also is there like already spoilers for next season out cause i've been in other rooms and people are like saying things and saying i know i've seen the spoilers????? Ok back to business, when Liz was running away from Max and all the others and Max went to go get her, why did Michael stop him, and what was max going to say. I mean i can't see him just giving up on Liz that easy. Well that's all for ideas!

jen_a4 Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 20 05-19-2000 01:07 PM []

GraceKel Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 652 05-19-2000 01:10 PM []

Well I wish I could take credit for this but my daughter found what we think is another clue in the PILOT when Liz is talking to Larry and Jennifer and says "well I guess it would be alright for me to show you guys this!" you can hear someone in the background saying "we have got to get rid of her!" I never noticed this b4 but there it is now I don't know who is saying this cuz you just hear it being said but I think it may be the two shooters saying that! It did always bother me that they ran out together like a team! So what do you guys think now-if you don't believe me go back and watch!

Whiteotter Level 3

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 113 05-19-2000 02:03 PM

*argh* - tug-*mutter* - pull - *acktpth*

That's the sounds of my mind grappling with the idea.

The most compelling 'evidence' to me was how drawn Max was to Liz. Was it at first sight? I don't remember if it was specified.

But the writers, in their efforts to be flexible and challenging, have left lots of loopholes for us to examine.

1) tess does mind control, which means she could have planted any of the 'mom' images we saw.

2) assuming she didn't manipulate the 'mom' image, there's still no proof that Tess is the 'young bride' mom referred to, since she wasn't referred to by name (reasonable, they're on a distant planet, but whatever)

3) Max's very intense feelings for Liz and vice-versa, as has been so well noted on this thread

4) If we believe in the existence of 'bad' aliens, we could assume that both Tess and Nasedo are imposters; 'bad' aliens who have infiltrated the pod squad to find out what they can do. The 'mom' image setting off such an alarm might also support this: who would set up a notice device that would immediately alert every enemy on the planet to your location?

5) Liz's parentage has never been discussed; she could be adopted as well and her parents have never told her.

The downside to Liz being an alien is that it would seem to validate the 'past destiny dictates your present destiny,' and I just don't like that idea. Plus then Max & Liz are no longer creating an alien-human connection; they're creating an alien-alien connection, and that's a little more distancing for me, as a human.

All I can think of at this point. I'll be back Sunday to check in!

Happy weekend guys!

Whiteotter

GraceKel Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 652 05-19-2000 02:20 PM []

Okay guys I wish I could take credit for this find but my daughter found it-yes we are all obsessed Roswellians here! In the PILOT when Liz is talking to Larry and Jen and says "I guess it would be alright to show you guys this!" (in the background you can hear someone say "we've got to get rid of her!") Now it doesn't show who is saying that but if you assume it might be one of the two shooters-(and it did always bother me that they almost left like a team anyway)! So now what do you think about Liz being shot no accident-someone messing with DESTINY! But ofcourse Max fouls that up by saving her life!

Zero Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 154 05-19-2000 03:34 PM

First - thescoobygang - I love your theory about Liz's Grandma and a previous encounter with Max's alien predecessor. Who knows what will actually happen next year, but it is fun to take the clues planted this season and play with them.

As far as whether Tess is the preordained mate to Max - there are so many great ideas on both sides, but I keep going back to the look on the child Max's face as he gets off the bus with young Isabel holding his hand, and he sees Liz for the (I assume) first time! It is such a haunting expression on his face of connection - and little Liz is oblivious to him since she is playing with friends. Something is there - a connection - be it alien/alien, alien/human or human/human. I'm not big on past lives, but I do strongly believe in a person's spirit and the connection of spirits - which is ofter referred to here as soulmates. I think that is what we have here, and what the foundation is will be interesting to discover.

The Grandma/Mother dynamics - that is an excellent observation! I remember at the time thinking "What is the Mom's problem?" But knowing my own relationship with my mom and my daughter - it is naturally a weird relationship to begin with. I hope this is something that is explored in the show!

Finally, YES, I don't think the guy who killed Hank and changed afterwards into the fellow who in the next episode watch Liz and Max while they slept in the desert and told them it was private property and needed to head home was Nasedo/Mr. Harding. I think he is another alien - maybe the "true" Nasedo or the other one that was not "killed" in the crash. If the alien race that sent the pod squad could do it once, what is kept them (other than domination by another alien race) from sending other ships - the UFOs from other sightings that Valenti's father told stories to Kyle about. They had to have made other trip to know about us in the first place - unless they learned about us in our radio transmissions (like in "Contact") which is a scary thought!! Okay, I'm going TOOOOO long, so those are my thoughts for the day!! I'm sure I'll have more soon! Have A Great Friday Night!! We have our local school's carnival tonight and I'm praying that it doesn't rain!!

brokgal Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 36 05-19-2000 08:22 PM

BUMP AGAIN.....i love to read what you all think.

Page 4

GraceKel Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 652 05-19-2000 10:27 PM []

Will any of you comment on the post I made about what was said in the background of the PILOT "We have to get rid of her!" NOBODY THINKS THIS IS SIGNIFICANT IN ANY WAY?

You don't have to believe that Liz is an ALIEN to believe that she could simply be MAX'S DESTINY. I believe that Liz is completely human----but we have also been discovering that Max is more human than he once thought!

jen_a4 Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 20 05-20-2000 05:29 AM []

Ok i didn't hear that in the Pilot. But yes it does sound signifigant. I mean what if it was those two shooters. What if they were shape shifters. Maybe they were the other race of aliens and know that Liz is an important part of saving Max's planet. But no one has replied to my observation about the pictures. I also noticed that when Max and Liz walked away from the house in TLV and it went to tess and her father they had this weird grin on their face! What do think that means??????

candygirl Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 237 05-20-2000 09:44 AM []

ummmmmmmmmmmmm I have no theory except that max and liz WILL be together next season! But, on topic, i do think that the writers only have to come to this thread for an awesome plot line. Someone should e-mail the link to one of the big wigs!

pieface Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 150 05-20-2000 10:25 AM

I rewatched the Pilot and yes the two guys do argue and one says "we have to get rid of her" !!!!!!! Pretty darn good shot, wasn't it - also, Liz sort of froze in her tracks instead of ducking for cover-hmmmmm??? Maybe "someone" made her freeze. Whoa. Now I'm beginning to wonder if Nasedo was one of them. The two guys were also arguing about money - maybe "someone" paid them to shoot Liz. hmmmmm??? Looks like the "other" aliens have maybe been right there all along. One thing is sure, Nasedo and Tess really really want LIZ out of the picture....... pondering pie

TrinityMatrix

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 1 05-20-2000 10:31 AM []

It's possible that she is more important, but we must remember what brought the two together: Max laying is hand on her and saving her life. Perhaps that is the key here.

BTW there is a new e-group starting up for Rosewell. I put it in my homepage, so that people could easily access it.

zales00 Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 22 05-20-2000 10:43 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by sunnygirl: I was thinking the same thing! I opened a thread yesterday that was kinda about it. I had noticed, in the last episode, that Nasedo had saved Liz instead of Max in the Funhouse, which was kinda strange. Something is definately going on there!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

zales00 Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 22 05-20-2000 10:48 AM

I agree, but i was thinking.. wouldn't Nasedo save Liz because he knew that if he didn't then Max would NEVER trust him...and as for instead of saving Max, I thinkl that he really had no choice because it would have been too obvious if he did something to get Max back and then just everyone would know. Would if the mamma and tess and nasedo just put all these "destiny" things inside of their heads to mess with them,.. like would if they just put Tess there to throw Max off, but would if Liz is really that important to them as well and should be with Max for some reason...

I dunno i'll have to think about this one some more...

jen_a4 Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 20 05-20-2000 01:36 PM []

Ok this may be a shot in the dark, but this is to do with Tess not being the young bride. Ok you know how in White Room Tess knows so much about the area and stuff, well is it possible that she was the other alien, you know the one that they captured and did tests on. Cause that would be the only way wouldn't it. I mean she knows to much and i don't think Nasedo would have told her all that stuff about the way they patrol. Then when the FBI do the x-rays of Max and they find out that his body stucture is completly normal they are surprised. So then wouldn't that lead to Tess not having a human body, meaning she isn't Max's bride!!!!! Maybe Max's bride was one of the two that died! Hey could be right. I didn't tape the begginning episodes so i can't watch the Pilot episode over again, but if they really said that then maybe Liz REALLY is more important!! No has answered my assumption about the pictures that tess took of max or the way tess and nasedo looked at eachother when max and liz walked off. Oh yeah was Tess really only supposed to be in 6 episodes??? PLEASE RESPOND TO ALL MY QUESTIONS I'VE BEEN DYING TO FIND OUT OTHER PEOPLES THOUGHTS!!!!! THANKS

jen_a4 Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 20 05-20-2000 01:39 PM []

jen_a4 Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 20 05-20-2000 02:00 PM []

Ok this may be a shot in the dark, but this is to do with Tess not being the young bride. Ok you know how in White Room Tess knows so much about the area and stuff, well is it possible that she was the other alien, you know the one that they captured and did tests on. Cause that would be the only way wouldn't it. I mean she knows to much and i don't think Nasedo would have told her all that stuff about the way they patrol. Then when the FBI do the x-rays of Max and they find out that his body stucture is completly normal they are surprised. So then wouldn't that lead to Tess not having a human body, meaning she isn't Max's bride!!!!! Maybe Max's bride was one of the two that died! Hey could be right. I didn't tape the begginning episodes so i can't watch the Pilot episode over again, but if they really said that then maybe Liz REALLY is more important!! No one has answered my assumption about the pictures that Tess took of max or the way tess and Nasedo looked at eachother when Max and Liz walked off. Oh yeah was Tess really only supposed to be in 6 episodes??? PLEASE RESPOND TO ALL MY QUESTIONS I'VE BEEN DYING TO FIND OUT OTHER PEOPLES THOUGHTS!!!!! THANKS! Oh yeah in M2M Nasedo said that only they matter "All that matters to me is them" or something. SO why did he save Liz. And in the same episode he says to Liz "You could be very important in terms of our exsistence." So is she????

jen_a4 Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 20 05-20-2000 02:30 PM []

Ok first off i don't trust tess! She's a liar and a munipulator! This is something that i have come to a conclusion to. In WR Tess knows so much about how the men patrol and stuff so could that mean that she was the alien they did tests on in the 40's. I mean when the scientists saw Maxs human x-rays they were so surprised so maybe Tess is like Nasedo! So that means she ain't max's bride. Maybe max's bride is one of the two aliens that died! I dunno. What are some of your assumptions.?

virgogurl Level 5 []

Registered: Nov 1999 Posts: 1055 05-20-2000 03:47 PM []

Ok, first of all....YOU GUYS ROCK!! Honestly, i cant talk to anyone like i can you guys. you guys and gals are probably the most intelligent bunch of people i have ever talked to, and its an honor to discuss things with you. Now that I have gotten all sappy...let me get to the topic at hand.

I have read each and every page of this thread, and every post also. You guys have come up with some pretty amazing theories, and i basically agree with all of them.

max2000: What a great theory about Liz being the "completion" part of the whole V shape. I have watched every episode again today, and i have picked up on lots of things that i have never noticed before, all thanks to this thread. Something i picked up on that wasnt mentioned, was the fact that even though Max called off the relationship with Liz, he could not stopt thinking about her. I know breakups are hard and everything, but he was seriously going nuts with out her. I dont think its just because he liked her that he felt this way. I think this is where the whole connection thing comes in. And since i dont know how to continue what i want to say into words, i am gonna have to stop there and come back later. If anyone knows what i am talking about, then please help me get this out!

Another thing I noticed: In "Into the Woods" liz tells max something along the lines of her understanding why he broke up with her but then she tells him that "YOU MADE ME APART OF THIS" So its oviously not just a soul connection thing, i also think its a physical change, just because of that line.

This was also discussed in the SF thread for "Sexual Healing". Max went to liz in the crashdown, where liz was sitting there having sexual fantasies about max. now, what people were wondering was, did the orb make max go to liz in the first place? or did it make him totally like jump her bones? was it the orb that made them totally "hungry" for eachother, or was it the alignment of the stars? If Liz hadnt been affected by max in the pilot, then she wouldnt have felt that "attraction" and "pull" to him in "Sexual Healing".

So, if anyone understands me at all, please respond!

Trish

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 3 05-20-2000 04:15 PM []

First, I'd like to say that I LOVE the Crashdown site and everyone seems so nice, and I love all the different theories. I don;t have any answers, but I do have a lot of questions. In Destiny, I know Max and Isabel think the vision is their mom, but do we know that for sure? Is it possibe (since she never says names) that Micheal is the leader and Isabel is the young bride and Tess is the daughter and Max is her intended? I think Max is a better leader, but can you tell that I'm grasping at straws? Also, the mom says that they lived before and perished, so they are only the essence of their former selves. Max doesn't have to stay with Tess. I would love to hear your comments, since you guys are the only ones I can talk to about this. My family is planning an intervention.

LizEvans13 Level 1

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 45 05-21-2000 06:39 PM []

Liz: So when you healed me, you risked all of this getting out, didn't you? Max: Yes. Liz: Why? Max: It was you.

I just noticed this today while looking through Quotes from the Pilot. "It was you." Ever wonder why he phrased it that way? Hmm... maybe it wasn't just a cute, romantic line.

Liz: Max, I'm so sorry. I should never even have told Maria in the first place. Max: You did it because you trust her and you needed someone to talk to. It was only natural. Liz: So why did you tell me? Max: It was only natural.

"It was only natural"...

Oh, completely and totally OT, but why was it "only natural" for Liz to tell Maria, but taboo to tell Alex? That kinda' irked me.

~*~ Liz Evans 13 ~*~

GraceKel Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 652 05-21-2000 07:35 PM []

Jen_A4 I read your post but have been unable to get on and respond til now. About the pics and weirdness in TLV we have discussed this b4 on the SCIFI of TLV b4. I thought Nasedo seemed worried that Isabel was in the house why? I don't know-maybe afraid she might uncover or recognize something? Mystery still. Why the pics of Max well even that is a big question mark but can't help but believe it has something to do with more manipulation. I do not feel the writers have presented Tess or Mr Harding as trustworthy right from the start. So there isn't any are they or aren't they.

Why did Tess need pics of Max and Isabel as children----so she could use them for that fake coming out of the pods vision she perpetrated on them--she screwed up though cuz Isabel will eventually remember that her hair was shorter. I think anyways! Why they did not need Michaels pic well I have a whole other theory about Michael that no one seems to agree with about him being one of them ---Nasedo and TESS are his family which he has so often told us! I think eventually he will have to make a big choice and I trust it will be a good choice in the long run.

As for Tess being the Alien in captivity-I picked up on that as well about her knowing the patrolling and also that when she saw Nasedo-she yelled at him-"DON'T YOU DARE LEAVE ME ALONE LIKE THAT AGAIN!" Almost like he might have abandoned her b4 when he had escaped and left her in captivity so I think this theory is still open but I am still not convinced of it.

As for whether Liz is really Max's young bride (well part of me is hoping that this whole MOTHER thing is contrived because I do not like them having all these answers so soon in the show-things should unfold more slowly I think) But if it is true I would rather believe that Liz was the bride than Tess wouldn't you. And that somehow Nasedo's and Tess group of aliens have been trying to undermine this Destiny for Max and Liz for their own motives having to do with keeping their race going or something.

Quite frankly I am hoping that Max is only going along with them to find out what they are up to cuz why does he suddenly trust Nasedo (who kidnapped Liz I would like to know and they have to know that Tess can play with minds so....)Also Liz will eventually have to tell Max about what she saw inside Nasedo (the evil vision within)

Zero Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 154 05-22-2000 09:07 AM

Bump!!

LILYROSS Level 2

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 53 05-22-2000 02:18 PM []

gRACEKEL, I agree about the " evil within" that was the first thing I thought about when Mama Alien said they would only recognize the enemy from the evil within. Also, how about the fact that it was Liz who found the darn Orb anyway and Nasedo knew it b/c he was there in the morning and told them to go home. Maybe Nasedo didn't know that Liz led Max to the orb but I find it interesting that Liz is the one that found the most important thing in the PodSquads journey!!!

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-23-2000 12:40 AM

I love this thread! I don't have much more to say right know, except that I definately think that Liz is the major key in discovering M/M/I's past & future. Besides being Max's soulmate, she has a gift that will help them.

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-23-2000 12:45 AM

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-23-2000 12:52 AM

GraceKel Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 652 05-24-2000 07:28 PM []

I missed this board so much-just bumping to first page again to hear more theories!

brokgal Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 36 05-24-2000 08:19 PM

i am so glad the boards are back......my days were incomplete without this site....anyway.....i noticed a couple of new things.....for example at the end of BLIND DATE.....when michael and isabel send a SOS for nasedo......someone does come in a trench coat......and burns a picture of m/m/l.......who the hell was that....was it nasedo.......or could it be one of the aliens from the crash and goes around killing people......(example hubbles wife)....if it is nasedo then he and tess are definitely part of the evil alien species....

SECONDLY:...you remember in CRAZY.......there is an impersanator(sp)....tess's doctor...he tells valenti and pod squad and others....that....topolsky is crazy......AT the time we all thought the impersanator was nasedo....but it can't be.....because if nasedo is good then he would want topolsky to give the orb to micheal...so they can discover who they really are......why would he not want topolsky to meet micheal......????so there's a mystery......

I am going to combine the two mysteries and make sense of the whole thing.....

say that nasedo and tess are evil aliens.....they pretend to get the trust of the pod squad....but in realty want to destroy their species......(we already can see what tess....can do with her brain powers....)..say the guy in the end of BLIND DATE is really nasedo.....and wants to kill the pod squad....and the guy who says that topolsky was crazy is one of the good aliens who survived the 1947 crash, who knows that if they set off the orbs....then they would send a signal that would let other evil aliens know the location of the pod squad.....so he pretends to be topolsky's doctor and prevents the pod squad from getting the orb.....and in turn saving them......

NOW i'm really confused....i can go on and on....forever...i can't believe how much i love this show......

THe part that has me really confused is why was liz getting glowing hickeys.....and rashes and visions......and whose visions of the crash was she experiencing?.....mAX's?....it can't be because he wouldn't know that the orb was buried underground.....and he can't see the crash....if he was still in his egg....LIZ HAS MORE TO DO WITH THIS THEN WE THOUGHT AFTERALL!!!!!

brokgal Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 36 05-24-2000 08:25 PM

I am going to combine the two mysteries and make sense of the whole thing.....

NOW i'm really confused....i can go on and on....forever...i can't believe how much i love this show......

brokgal Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 36 05-24-2000 08:38 PM

I am going to combine the two mysteries and make sense of the whole thing.....

NOW i'm really confused....i can go on and on....forever...i can't believe how much i love this show......

brokgal Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 36 05-24-2000 09:20 PM

bumpaty bump!

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-24-2000 10:12 PM

BUMP.........

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-24-2000 10:13 PM

BUMP.........

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-24-2000 10:14 PM

BUMP.........

brokgal Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 36 05-25-2000 07:10 PM

BUMP!

GraceKel Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 652 05-25-2000 07:42 PM []

Lilyross, Brokgal I am not convinced that it was Nasedo who found them in the desert-which would also mean that it was not Nasedo who got rid of Hank either.

I think there is at least one other adult alien (I think friend) who is working to help our pod squad cuz I think Nasedo is the evil one-or else why would Liz see that vast emptiness and death in him?

The guy who found them in the desert seemed a little happy that they were together because maybe THEY (whose biological drives were set off by the V consellation) were suppose to find the orb and the guy was happy that they did? Maybe?

During that episode the chemistry teacher tells Liz "Ms Parker you a good student I would not want to see anything come between you and the universe" -meaning Liz you are smart don't let anthing come betw you and Max-next ep Tess shows up-see what I mean. wNext ep

brokgal Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 36 05-25-2000 08:01 PM

I am not saying that nasedo is good or evil..but those dark images that liz saw.....also included an image of hubble's wife....that could mean that nasedo has killed her....or it can mean that he had some previous connection with her.....

so i am not completely sure he is evil...remember when max tells nasedo to disguise himself as pierce he seemed more than happy to do it...like it was his job to do what max said and somehow he was just happy to fulfill his duties....

About liz getting the glowing hickeys.....the only reason she would be getting physical changes is if she somehow was a descendent of an alien......(maybe grandma hooked up with an alien .....or maybe she is somehow is related to hubbles wife)......and maybe that explains why liz and max are so drawn to each other.....and i have no doubt in my mind that they are each others destinies....i love the theory of the V constellation......i hope that is the actual story line

Linda Level 3

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 143 05-25-2000 11:50 PM []

I LOVE this thred!!!

I'm going to be repeating things people said only to get as many facts together as I can.

Is Liz Important? HELL YES!!!! Here is the collection of stuff and some of my thoughts and comments as well...

1. someone said in the Pilot that the two arguing mentioned "We have to get rid of her!" I did not catch that!!!! very good!!!! I went back and now I see it!!!

2. When Max says..."It was you" in the Pilot. Like it was the most natural thing in the world for him to have done... I agree with that one too.

3. Another thing I noticed that I might have missed that was already mentioned on this thred and excuse me if this is a repeat... sorry, but I've been thinking about SH. In Four Squared, Isabel says that she feels changes like she's awakening or something and Max agrees.... well, why did LIZ say in the shower in SH that something was happening to her. Like she was changing and it was chemical????!!!! DIng ding ding!? Is it me or does that sound interesting now too. Why was Liz the only other person outside of the aliens to feel the chemical desires and feelings and pull??

And the way Max was totally drawn to her... he must have been going through it too. I do believe Liz is Max's REAL destiny! Human or not. Either way she is his destiny.

4. I completely agree with a lot of you that Tess and Nasedo can easily be making a lot of this up and that they are really from the EVIL aliens. Why???

LIst of all inconsistancies for Nasedo and Tess....

* Why the tons of pics of only Max???

*If they are who they say they are why did they wait soo long to contact the pod squad?

* Why was Nasedo freaking out when Isabel came to the house in TLV???? Didn't they WANT Isabel to figure them out??? Why didn't they want Isabel to know there were pics of Max??

*Why would Nasedo let M/L find the orb if he was watching them, only to turn around in "Crazy" and act as the Maryland Doctor of Topolsky's and steer the gang AWAY from the second orb???

*Why did Tess and Nasedo smile at the end of TLV when Max and Liz walk away together??

*Here's a big one... and the connections to them being part of the FBI conspiracy or something to do with having been captured before... as Brokgal and other's mentioned,

WHAT where the ARMY doing at Nasedo and Tess's house in TLV when Michael saw the house empty??? If Nasedo keeps changing who he is.. how could he get a job with the army and get such a prestegious postition that the ARMY would come to his house with guns???? To protect it or them etc???

Also... why DID Tess know so much about the FBI compound where Max was taken? People mentioned that and I too wonder. Plus she knew that the highway patrol in MttM were FBI agents...how did she recognize them? She told them to keep driving when Max thought is was Liz on the side of the road. How the heck did Tess know that they were agents right away???

This was mentioned too...why DID Tess tell Nasedo not to leave her again?

And if Nasedo has been around spying on the trio for awhile now, WHERE has Tess been all this time???

And if Tess grew up with Nasedo...how could she NOT know that he killed people and left a handprint?? She said she didn't know about that in WR... VERY INCONSISTANT of Nasedo and Tess!!!!

Okay... so I could agree with someone who said maybe there are two shapeshifters... and if their are... obviously Tess and this Nasedo are BAD! Pluse... Liz saw only evil inside of Nasedo...

And... they made note several times, once in WR and then in Destiny, that Tess can manipulate things around her to make people believe what they are seeing. I know people have mentioned this as well... what IF Tess is an evil alien... and she made them see the Mother Destiny thing or atleast manipulated it a little to make her look part of it. And all the visions they were getting when she first came on the scene... her manipulations again.

Okay... i"ve rambled enough and think I've got more questions than answeres here, but I truely believe that LIZ IS PART OF MAX's REAL DESTINY SOMEHOW!

Is she an alien? Maybe? Or part of some larger plan for the "genetic alien/humans"?

Liz's grandmother could be a key to this as well... She came into it and mentioned the soulmate thing first. Then she showed them a book she had worked on about the Native Americans... the Native Americans seem to have a lot to do with the aliens. Can Liz's grandmother have stumbled upon something? Can she BE part of the whole alien thing? And when she told LIz to follow her heart no matter what.... ??? Hmmmm..

And when River Dog told Maria not to worry about her friend...when Liz didn't step into the circle... he mentioned about her having a different path or something.... hmmmm...

Okay... that's enough rambling now... I just love this thred and the more I read the more confused I get!

What do you guys think? I know a lot of you have stated the above things, but I'm trying to pull as much of it together as I can in one read to try to get all the facts down... hmmmm...

Linda Crazy4Roswell@aol.com

Linda Level 3

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 143 05-26-2000 12:07 AM []

Bumpity Bump Bump!

Linda Level 3

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 143 05-26-2000 12:12 AM []

One more BUMP to keep it on top

rosfan Level 3

Registered: Jan 2000 Posts: 110 05-26-2000 01:18 AM []

GraceKel- I just wanted to say that I did go back and rewatch the Pilot and someone definitely says "We have to get rid of her" in the background. Now, of course, that comment could be an editing snafu or could be completely unrelated to Liz BUT the Pilot was filmed months before it aired and the producers/directors had plenty of time to weed out little mistakes like that. So, I conclude, that the comment is in there for a reason. As for what that reason is, only time will tell. *Personally, I believe that Tess and Nasedo are evil aliens (perhaps hostages of the FBI, forced to try to gain M, M, and I's trust and then betray them).

Also, I just saw TLV for the first time and NO WAY do I trust Tess and Nasedo after that. Too many clues to their evilness- box of Max's pictures, Nasedo/Mr. Harding freaking out about Isabel visiting the house, Michael jumping to Liz's defense in a big way (I now totally love Michael for that), and soldiers with guns at the Harding house. Think about it- if Nasedo was telling the truth and masquerading as a civilian who helps convert closed bases then why would he need armed soldiers at his house. It is not like it is top secret work. WHY were armed(!!!!) soldiers at his house? It does not fit with Nasedo's explanation to Liz nor does it fit with anything else we know. Also, notice that Eagle Rock military base (in the White Room episode) is a closed base and what does Nasedo/Mr. Harding tell Liz he does- he works on closed bases. Very curious!

Also, I agree with whoever said that IF the mom alien vision thing is true (and I don't believe it is) then I want Liz to be the bride that mom alien was refering to. Mom alien refers to a leader, his bride, his sister, and his protector/second in command. Now some people assume that the vision refers to Max, Tess, Isabel, and Michael, respectively. However, what if it refers to Max, Liz, Isabel, and Valenti? No, I don't really believe Valenti is an alien or Liz for that matter but Valenti has been a definite protector of M, M, and I and Liz has filled the role of bride. If you go with this (admittedly wacky) idea, Michael could still be a troubled "evil" alien (remember in Destiny he says that he kills people and Max heals them), related to Tess and Nasedo, who longs to be good like his friends Max and Isabel. This opens the path for Michael to be redeemed and for Liz to be Max's bride and even for Valenti to be part of the gang. Sorry for rambling but if all that I just said is true, it would open up the coolest storylines and metaphors for next season: Michael having sinned (as an evil alien) in a previous life now struggling for redemption in this life, Liz as Max's soulmate for all time loving each other through many lifetimes, Valenti being connected to a group he feared and maybe even hated early on (why was Valenti's dad so interested in aliens?), and maybe even Valenti and Kyle being related to MMI (very cool if Max and Kyle were like brothers/cousins fighting over the same woman, Liz). Whew, all that was really weird, but please forgive me since it is 1 am. Any thoughts?

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-26-2000 03:02 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by GraceKel: Lilyross, Brokgal I am not convinced that it was Nasedo who found them in the desert-which would also mean that it was not Nasedo who got rid of Hank either.

Yes! this could definately be a posability!

Bump........

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-26-2000 03:03 AM

Yes! this could definately be a posability!

Bump........

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-26-2000 03:04 AM

Bump!

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-26-2000 03:06 AM

Bump!

ROSWELLMOM Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 21 05-26-2000 06:50 AM

First, I have to say that this is a fantastic thread. I too think that Liz is more important to the whole scheme of things then we think! I read everyone's theories last night and was thinking about one of the questions that has come up numerous times and think I have a very plausible explanation. Many people have mentioned that Liz sees visions of the crash when she is with Max, but this isn't possible because Max wasn't there. What if the memories were implanted in Max (or all three for that matter)? They were implanted by whoever set them up in the pods in case for some reason something went wrong so they would know where they came from, what happened, etc. This whole "connection" with Liz has unleashed these planted memories and are clues to lead the pod squad to the answers they desire. Obviously something did go wrong. I don't think they were meant to be rasied by humans. Well, that's my explanation of this puzzling question. What do you guys think?

Page 5

Dawn Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 905 05-26-2000 08:52 AM

Hi I really enjoy everyone's theories.And brokgal Thank You-you asked the question I've been thinking. Why would Nasedo practically aid in the capture of Topolsky when she had so much inside info and the other orb and she could have been an enourmous help to the pod squad? It doesn't make sense.I really hope Topolsky comes back next season because I think she will have some answers and help blow this thing wide open. Oh and the last poster sorry forgot your name I think that is a very good idea that probably M/M/I were never supposed to be raised by humans and when they were that changed everything including their supposed Destiny.

Roswell'sHoneyBehr Level 2

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 75 05-26-2000 01:56 PM []

Just a thought about the flashes that Liz gets. It might be because of the connection she and Max had once he healed her. Maybe she received alien tendencies through the healings. Because she can get flashes from other aliens. In Max to the Max she got a flash from Nasedo.

Roswell'sHoneyBehr Level 2

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 75 05-26-2000 03:26 PM []

Okay, all you people probably think I'm stupid but I posted my last reply before I read the whole thing. N/E way, I sincerally think that Roswell has the best fans around. Not only do you guys connect with the characters on the show you all also connect inteluctually with the shows writers. I'm so blown away by all of the plausible theories you guys have written here. I sat for about two hours at my computer reading every last one of them and I have come to the conclusion that someone should write a fanfic about all of this and submit it to The WB people because they really deserve to read all of yalls great ideas. Because I seriously think that they could not have come up with all of these theories. I'm about 99% certain that you guys are pure genius'. I love this thread and because I feel that I'm not quite intelectual enough to write or come up with any other theories as good as yalls I'll keep my thoughts to myself. It would take to long to sort threw all of my thoughts and be able to write them all down. So keep up the awesome work. I want to hear more of your theories. (Zero I know will read everything and anything on this board that you have posted. You rock!)

Zero Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 154 05-26-2000 03:47 PM

First - I must say I'm humbled by the incredible response this questions has prompted! Some day, when I have a extra few hours, I'm going to try to pull all the theories into one place, so a newbie, can review them, and an oldie can be refreshed on some of them. I hope they rerun the show, beginning to end - straight through - so that we can all pick up additional clues, that first time through (though I must admit, I've watched all the episodes at least a couple of times) we all might have missed. Like the comment by the two roughians in the first episode before Liz is shoot - I never noticed that! Well - everyone have a fabulous weekend!! But don't let those brain cells or theories rest!

brokgal Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 36 05-26-2000 06:31 PM

i still collecting my thoughts.....but i thought i should bump the thread...so more people can read out theories.

BUMP!

nermal

Registered: Jan 2000 Posts: 84 05-26-2000 08:48 PM []

I also think Liz's flashes are because Max healing Liz and the connection he formed with her awakened the dormant abilities within her already. So this ability isn't alien, but human. Just like Nasedo said the pod squad's powers were human, only more advanced.

And if she can see inside of Nasedo, she might be useful seeing the "evil within" the alien enemy that is bound to make an appearance in Roswell next season. They have to draw her back to the group somehow. And Maria and Alex are bound to follow.

GraceKel Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 652 05-26-2000 09:45 PM []

Nermal I pretty much agree with you. I think Max reversing the connection in the Pilot opened up these pathways to her brain and now that they are opened well......she has already seen some evil in Nasedo.

Yes I think in Blind Date they saw the V constellation allignment which wakened their biological drives as it was suppose to. I don't agree however it was because T was not around I think the right parties came together-T is the intruder trying to twist and turn this I believe.

I just don't think the writers have made it any secret that T and Nasedo are up to no good for our pod squad. People argue on this board about people saying bad things about Tess but I don't think the creators intended for us to like her..So I guess she is doing a good job with the role.

ssstar Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 13 05-26-2000 10:38 PM []

This thread is absolutely amazing. Keep it up - you've really got me thinking. Either the writers for this show are more brilliant than we thought (all this stuff couldn't possibly be a coincidence, could it?) or the writers should look at this thread because there are a lot of wonderful ideas here. Every time I go back and look at an old show or read an old transcript I pick up something else. They pack a lot into that hour.

GraceKel Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 652 05-27-2000 12:32 AM []

Yes Linda that is kinda what I have been saying in my posts!

And Rosfan so glad someone else is adopting my theory about Michael--I think people resist it because they think that would make Michael bad but I think we will be using the nature-nurture(well Hank of course was not a good influence for Michael) but Max, Isabel,Maria,Liz and Alex are and at some point I think he will find out that he is related to Nasedo and Tess, to the darker aliens and is not related to Max and Isabel. I think this would be a GREAT PLOT TWIST!!!!The dark side will lure him but his human/aliens and human friends will save him from this awful fate!

jen_a4 Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 20 05-27-2000 07:25 AM []

Ok, good ideas everyone! You people are the only ones i can talk to about this. I guess we all have something in common! DUH! ROSWELL!! N/e ways, lets just put this into discussion. Tess really is the bride but was left by the other three. They go through their life connecting with Humans. So you know that thing about the biological drive thing and it awakening. What if because Tess wasn't there, something happened. And now Max will never be able to be with n/e one else except Liz. What if she took over Tess's bride spot. Not saying that liz is part alien, but you know what i mean. So seeing how Max loved Liz his biological drives were driven to her and not Tess. This no means that Tess should be out of the picture with Max. Now i hate to be the bringer of BAD news, but you know how creative that all the people are right? Well so far i haven't seen any twists or turns from the writers. So it could very well mean that all these things are coinencidences. I sure hope not. I mean can't we like e-mail them our ideas. Like the producers. I'm willing to do some investigating if you'll all help to find out how we can reach them and give them out ideas, or tell them to come here! WELL love your ideas. It's almost like the second season has started! Jen

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-27-2000 10:45 AM

Bumping back to 1st page!!!

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-27-2000 10:48 AM

Bumping back to 1st page!!!

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-27-2000 10:55 AM

Bumping back to 1st page!!!

brokgal Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 36 05-27-2000 02:52 PM

bumpity bump!

brokgal Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 36 05-27-2000 02:54 PM

bumpity bump!

Roswell'sHoneyBehr Level 2

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 75 05-27-2000 03:00 PM []

B U M P

roswelllvr Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 30 05-27-2000 03:24 PM []

Agree with u. Liz has something. I think when Max healed her, something of him became part of her. That's why they HAVE to be together. Wait and see, next season I think it will all be revealed (slowly, to keep us watching!)

shapeshifter Level 3

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 199 05-27-2000 07:06 PM []

quote:

Originally posted by Zero:Some day, when I have a extra few hours, I'm going to try to pull all the theories into one place, so a newbie, can review them, and an oldie can be refreshed on some of them.

Compilation of this thread in its sweetened and condensed form in the thread: Importance of Liz to the Alien Mythology revisited

[Edited by shapeshifter on 05-28-2000 at 02:35 PM]

brokgal Level 1

Registered: May 2000 Posts: 36 05-27-2000 07:29 PM

bump

GraceKel Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999 Posts: 652 05-27-2000 09:52 PM []

Well done Shapeshifter that is quite a mouth full isn't it!

BUT THERE IS MORE!

Why do MAX AND LIZ SEEM TO CONNECT EVEN AS CHILDREN IN THAT VISION HE HAS WHILE HEALING HER.

I also thought in MORNING AFTER when Liz says in the eraser room "HOW AM I EVER GOING TO BECOME WHATEVER IT IS I AM SUPPOSE TO BECOME WITH EVERYONE LOOKING? (MAX'S DESTINY)

GRANDMAS SOULMATE TALK OFCOURSE_WHY WOULD SHE BE TALKING ABOUT IT!

Why would Liz say in the BALANCE "IT IS THE ONLY REAL THING THAT I HAVE EVER FELT!" Also telling Maria in SH "BECAUSE IT FEELS RIGHT LIKE NOTHING IN MY LIFE HAS FELT RIGHT B4."

In TLV Max says "I LOOK AT YOU AND I KNOW YOU ARE THE ONE I AM SUPPOSE TO BE WITH-I HAVE ALWAYS KNOWN IT!" "YOU'RE THE ONE!"

Also let me add that the employees at the CRASHDOWN has anyone noticed that one or more of them is always nearby when they are having conversations about THINGS GOING ON! I keep going back to the idea that they are watching out for them ---or could be spies--I would rather think watching out for though. I only noticed this in rewatching eps in marathons and stuff. I don't know if the exit signs have something to do with them or not! Oh well just another theory.

rosfan Level 3

Registered: Jan 2000 Posts: 110 05-28-2000 12:43 PM []

Ok, let's see if this works. I posted a reply last night but I guess it got lost so here it is again.

I wrote this on the thread about the song Fear by Sarah McLachlan: Reading the lyrics, I just noticed the part that says "promises of a LONG LOST FRIEND speaks to me of comfort..." (notice the words I capitalized). Now I will have to go back and watch the Pilot to see which images go along with that line in the song BUT...some of us have speculated that if the alien mom message in Destiny is true (i.e. not manipulated by Tess) then perhaps the bride for Max that alien mom referred to is actually Liz and not Tess. These lyrics seem to support that, referring to Liz and Max as being long lost friends. Hmmm, am I way off base here?

Now since I first wrote this I have gone back and watched the Pilot again. The part of the song that says "promises of a LONG LOST FRIEND speaks to me of comfort" is playing when Max and Liz connect. The images that Liz is seeing during this exact part of the song is the image of young Max getting off the bus and staring intently at young Liz as if he recognized her! Now, coupled with what GraceKel noticed the shooters saying in the diner ("we have to get rid of her"), I am thinking that Liz is absolutely Max's real destiny. Also, I noticed while watching the Pilot that when Max is in the jeep with Michael and Isabel and Isabel is listening to the CD by holding it up to her ear, Michael makes some comment about Liz's knowing about them being dangerous and Max says "Liz is DIFFERENT". Hmmm, one more interesting comment that proves Liz's uniqueness in all of this.

BTW, next week I will start summer vacation and I plan to rewatch every episode and write down all the comments that indicate Liz's uniquness. After I have them all written down I will start a thread where we can compile all the evidence.

Roswell'sHoneyBehr Level 2

Registered: Apr 2000 Posts: 75 05-28-2000 02:45 PM []

You lost some posts. That stinks. I really would love to hear what was said. If you can remember anything that hasn't been said please post them again.

Zero Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000 Posts: 154 05-29-2000 11:58 PM

Now that Shapeshifter has consolidated some of the theories so well, I'm wondering if we should move this discussion to that new thread?? What do you think? But we would have to copy GraceKel's additional questions/issues/theories above, and Rosfan - I can hardly wait to have your list of comments that point towards Liz's importance!! I long for the days of summer vacation!! Enjoy it while you have it!! There were definitely indications in the Pilot tonight that Liz is important to Max if not to the overall mythology! I plan to rewatch it more carefully when I get a chance. The song - Fear - is an important clue, because songs are used in other places to give clues - I believe. I'm always listening to what is playing, because ... Like in the basketball game - after the initial break-up, the Third Eye Blind song "Never Let You Go" is playing, and perfectly positioned when Max watches Liz watching Kyle when Kyle get injured. Okay - I have to go sleep now, or I will be burnt out tomorrow - oh the obsession!!

jasmin123 Level 3

Registered: Mar 2000 Posts: 170 05-30-2000 12:26 AM

Someone already started a new thread that continues this one, so GO!!!!