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Topic: Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology - Thread #10
By Zero 10-09-2000, 10:21 AM
Topic: Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology - Thread #10
By Zero 10-09-2000, 10:21 AM
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I'm having a horrible time getting posted - plus, I've been out of town. As soon as I can, I will post a summary, but wanted to try to get this up!
Zero :D
By Zero 10-09-2000, 10:33 AM
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Finally got this to post! I haven't had time to summarize Thread #9 - caught off guard, so following is the introduction to Thread #9 which should catch most up, and I hope to summarize Thread #9 soon - though anyone else is WELCOME to give it a shot if they have time!!
Welcome to the new Board and the continuing discussion of "Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology." This is Thread #10!! :D We have been passing the time all summer dissecting the Roswell episode, one by one, finding "clues" to Liz's importance and other relevant topics! I don't know whether the past threads are available, so you are welcome to join the discussion mid-stream if you are new, and don't worry about repeated discussions!
The following is a summary of some of the thoughts and theories that have been expressed on the original threads. If possible, I highly recommend that if you want to read an excellent in-depth analysis of how Liz might fit into the alien mythology and her importance to the pod squad - and the survival of the human race for that matter - and theories concerning the beings and mysteries swirling around Liz you spend the time to read the original threads - if you can find them!
First - and foremost - the general consensus is that Liz is important to the alien mythology and the pod squad, and that there is more to the Liz/Max connection than a mere attraction (i.e., a crush). From the first look - Max getting off the bus in Kindergarten, Max has been strongly attracted to Liz. Max often makes comments such as "It was you!" that leads us to believe that her importance to him was beyond the bounds of "normal." How Liz is important is where the fun - and this thread! - comes in. Most believe that when Max healed Liz and then caused a "reverse connection" (Pilot), that something changed in Liz - whether the change was new or an awakening of something already a part of her is not known. Many feel there is something that goes to the core of who Liz is - maybe from a past life on the pod squads planet, or a previous life encounter with Max's alien "essence" or human DNA donor on Earth, or was Liz the original "4th" podster who "hatched" early and was humanized by her human parents, or was Liz the "second in command" referred to in the Mom'ogram, who somehow was separated from the group, or could it just be Liz's advanced human intelligence that "connects" her to Max - but that the connection that Max had to Liz started the day he first got off the bus and saw her, and was awakened in Liz by the healing and reverse connection that occurred in the Pilot. Some have wondered if the way Max held the back of Liz's neck during the healing could have changed her cerebral cortex - the location that Pierce said the Special Unit had identified as the source of the aliens' powers. Could the number of connections also come into play into "changing" Liz, or awaking an already - yet dormant - power within her? Many have wondered about Liz's origins - are her parents her birth parents, does she have a connection to the Indians, why does she look so much like Sheila Hubble? - and how this plays into the connection with Max. Is Liz totally of human origin or does she have some alien "blood" - literally or figuratively - in her?
"Soulmates" seems to be a continuing term used when referring to Max and Liz, and we all seem to think this is done for a reason. Though much is made of Max's Destiny being Tess (aka hamster or gerbil - you pick) , many of us wonder if Liz is actually his Destiny due to the use of the Human DNA and where it came from. The use of that DNA could have totally altered the "planned" destiny. There is also much thought given to whether the alien Max played out his "destiny" on his home planet when killed in the conflict that envelopes that place, and that now has an entire new "destiny" that includes Liz - one that could not have been anticipated by his home planet creators. Most of us draw a clear distinction between someone's "destiny" and "duty." We - mostly - also believe that by using human DNA for the pod squad, and the fact that they were raised as humans, brings the issue of "free choice" into play. The continuing debate of "nature" vs. "nurture" also comes up here - and is the podsquad's "nature" completely "alien" given that all their powers are "human." There has also been an excellent analysis of what "essence" truly means, and can a being's destiny or soul follow the transfer of one's essence. Also, does one's memory follow one's essence? Are those visions Max's alien being's memories, or are they coming from someone or somewhere else? There have also been many wonderful discussions concerning what "destiny" truly means, and how the environment (the "nurture" argument) can affect one's destiny.
In the Mom'ogram, many have wondered if the reference to Max's young bride has to be to Tess (The Evil Shape Shifter - Grace Kel )? Could it be Liz? Though many seem to accept that it probably is referring to Tess, many wonder why they would send his bride in the first place? Was Tess sent solely to provide a "mate" for Max (please - no gagging allowed on this thread), or was there another purpose for her presence? There is also the question of whether the Mom'ogram is authentic, or a projection from Tess? It was hard to tell when Tess' projections left off and reality began. Was it pre-recorded like a video tape (in which case - is the home planet still in existence, or has it been destroyed by war or natural consequences?), or was it a direct communication with the home planet or a hidden spaceship (hidden by the V formation?)? The same concerns are raised with the "book" found by Tess with respect to its authenticity and reliability. Could Grandma Claudia's book - which is in Liz's possession (we assume) - help decode the alien's book and shed light on the aliens' connection to the Indians in the area? If the alien book is authentic, how did the aliens know exactly what the pod squad would look like when they grew up? (Lots of discussion re: DNA, cloning, etc. - very interesting! )
Liz is also viewed - when the episodes are rewatched (multiple times by some of us! And in slow motion! We fondly call this "Grace Kelled" :D ) - as a critical element to moving the plot along. She is the one who often initiates the actions that help unravel the aliens' mythology (e.g., thinking of the plan to throw Valenti off the trail in the Pilot, finding the way out of the hidden room at Atherton's place, making the initial contact with River Dog, going to Valenti to seek help in rescuing Max, etc.). She is a leader that takes action when it is needed, and is the intellect that comes up with the plan. She could possibly be the equivalent to Max - whom we find out in Destiny is the former leader of his people. Could Liz be the human equivalent of Max that is here to help Max save the human race, as well as free the pod squad's people? Liz is also a brain - which is relevant when we find out in the White Room that the podsters are just very advanced humans (approximately 3000 years ahead of us normal mortals!). Could her intelligence mean that she has the potential to obtain some of the "powers" that the pod squad have? We will have to wait for Season 2, but many have expressed that they would NOT be surprised if Liz is capable of some advanced powers in the future, and that her visions may be just a precursor to these. Will she be the one able to SEE the evil within as the Mom'ogram says the podsters will have to be able to do? Is that what she was "seeing" when she kissed Harding/Max? Does she only get visions while kissing or in a state of heightened emotion (i.e., the hand touching in SH in Chemistry class)? The aliens supposedly get such visions sometimes according to Max in Missing - remember the vision he got of Kyle in Liz's bedroom.
Each of Liz's visions has been examined in-depth, and it is hard to summarize all the thoughts here. Not only has she been able to "see into Max's soul," but also she has seen a (the?) trip through a distant galaxy, the crash on Earth, and her visions were the reason the second communicator was discovered. Many feel these visions were not coming from Max, but from an outside source - or a source internal to Liz just now being released or awakened. Some of the visions seemed to be from the perspective of the communicator itself or an alien hiding it (a deep breathing - out-of-breath alien). Some wonder if others - aliens? - have observed Liz for some time. The shot came from two "strangers" who mention - "We have to get rid of her" - in the background (listen carefully while Liz shows the alien picture to the tourist couple) right before she is shot. Was it intentional?? Why would anyone (or any being) "watch" Liz prior to the shooting unless she has an importance we are not aware of yet (though we suspect)?
The picture Liz shows the tourists in the Pilot was supposedly taken by her Grandmother at the crash before the military arrived - a connection or just a joke as we were supposed to think?? Many have speculated about Grandma Claudia's involvement and her book about the Ancient Treasures of the Navajo Indians. Could Grandma Claudia have had contact with the aliens previously? Was Grandma Claudia killed intentionally? Did she know that Liz was "special," thus, necessitating the early arrival and that "soulmate" discussion? Is Liz affected or a product of one of these earlier alien contacts? Could Liz have an alien relative? There seems to be many hints connecting ancient Indian cultures to the podsquad or other aliens, including the Machu Picchu in Peru culture highlighted at the UFO Museum, the continuing references to "ancient languages" (e.g., Liz's Blind Date Doug Shellow's major at the UofNM and where the aliens' manual was hidden in the library) and Grandma Claudia's studies. Only coincidence - we think not! Could Liz's review of her Grandmother's possessions in Season 2 reveal those connections? We are hopeful!
Another major topic of interest is Liz's connection to Sheila Hubble! The resemblance between the two is amazing, and other parallels exist (e.g., pictures of both driving in an open-air car with the wind blowing through their dark hair). Plus, the visions that Liz receives from Max/Harding include Hubble's wife at the death scene - meaning it had some significance to him. Did he kill her, or did the handprint come from a failed attempt to save her? Were the fireworks Hubble mentions seeing when kissing his wife the same as the stars Liz sees when kissing Max? Could Sheila Hubble be related to Liz somehow - an aunt, DNA donor, or was Sheila an alien? The fact that Sheila Hubble was three months pregnant with a girl seems to be relevant somehow! Could the DNA from the girl have been used for the podsquad - Max maybe, or Tess - or for Liz? AND why is Tess' mother's name listed as Sheila on her school records? Everett Hubble, Ed Harding - both EH names with a wife named Sheila - INTERESTING! hummmm! :eyespin:
Liz's ability to "see" into Max/Harding's "soul" again points to the possibility that she may ultimately be able to "see the evil within." What is it that she sees in these visions? Sheila Hubble, Lightening, a wormhole, the high desert, clouds rolling in? Some see sea foam, which is related in mythology to Venus. Is Liz the Venus often referred to? The Venus constellation is often referred to in connection with Liz (e.g., Max in response to Liz saying her parents are on a trip to see Venus in the morning sky says "I thought she was standing in front of me."). Could it be that the four squares (pod squad) + plus the fifth star being Liz "complete" the constellation? The numbers 14 and 104 seem to pop up often - why? Some have found a connection between these numbers to Venus in astronomy and mythology, or could it be 1 for Liz, and 4 for the podsquad? Or are they just some writer's favorite apartment number or address? :facespin: We also have the evil aliens' beeper that is a pentagon - 5 sided. Any connection?
And what significance does the cave map have to Liz's connection to the podsters? A number of the symbols in the cave "map" have raised some interesting analysis! What do they represent, and is Liz represented somehow - like one of the "dot" in the series of boxes, one of which is open with the dot outside? Some have tried to identify each of the symbols and draw a correlation between the symbols and the various characters with some fascinating results! We have also begun to analyze the symbols that are "flashed" in the promos - you definitely have to Grace Kel them or you will miss them. Redhawk has done some wonderful screen caps for us to analyze!
Many have wondered if the "bad" aliens might also be from the podsquad's planet, just part of a civil war - therefore, having similar characteristics and powers to Harding's type of alien. Many of us think that the podsquad's people had to have visited Earth before - maybe many times! Could the pods have been planted on Earth at a time separate from the 1947 crash, maybe later on? Could other pods have been planted at other times? Could there be more than one set of podsters that will show up later? Clones? And could some of these earlier visits have some connection to Grandma C or someone else in Liz's family? Was the '47 crash caused by the bad aliens, or another ship of the "good" aliens? How long have the bad and good aliens been visiting or aware of Earth? And what have they been up to on these visits?
Most of us also think that there are more than one alien "watching" the pod squad, and that the tic-tac popping alien (AKA Tic Tac) (i.e., Hank-killer, one that found them asleep in the desert, and Dr. M impersonator) is a different alien, possibly watching out for them (we hope!), than Harding/Nasedo (assuming Harding is Nasedo). And what about the person who burns their picture at the end of Blind Date - another alien or one of the above two? Some wonder if Tess, Doug Shellow, Pierce and/or Deputy Owen might be a shapeshifter, or evil aliens? There is a wonderful observation of the different ways Harding and Tic Tac shapeshift and the different colored light involved! Many feel that Tic Tac is a good alien watching over the podsters, but maybe he is watching over Liz, too! Some wonder if Tic Tac switched the orb in the desert before Liz and Max woke up? If he did, why? The orbs have become a significant focus of discussion - how are they connected to the alignment of the constellations, or to the podsquad, or to the evil aliens? Also - what was with the "visit" during Into The Woods? Was it a spaceship that left the marking, or a single alien? As far as the color analysis goes, generally yellow seems to represent - or be present - evil, and blue seems to represent good - though this is not always true. And then, there is always the green cells and occasional glow!
Harding's connection to Liz has been pondered often! Why was he so eager to kiss Liz - not just in the car, but also in bus after "saving" her? (Horny alien? ) Why did he save Liz and not Max from the house of mirrors? Could he have been Sheila Hubble's lover or had some other strong connection to her, with a later connection to Liz? Could he have known Grandma Claudia? Could GC been connected to Sheila Hubble somehow? Harding has done nothing - we know of - to harm Liz, but MANY are suspicious of his intentions. Is his sole reason for being on Earth to protect the podsquad - an official "worker bee" - and what did he do for all those years?? Some feel he is a bad alien using Tess to infiltrate the podsquad. Why didn't he give them more information about themselves and what he has been up to? There are so many questions he could answer for the podsters! Will the real Ed Harding please stand up?
Some have noted the reoccurrence of handholding as symbolizing the connection between Max and Liz and the other podsters. Handholding has great significance in the books as a form of joining energy, and we believe it does in the show too. The V constellation also looks like the joining of two hands. Also, in The Balance much is made of Max reaching out his hand to pull Michael from the pit, and M/I/M walking away holding hands.
Finally - dates seem to be of interest to those on this thread. So, following is a rundown of dates as I've been able to gather them. I include them up-front for easy reference, but I would love to add dates of relevance you come across:
1911 - James Atherton born in TN
1927 - Buffalo Visitation
1/15/1943 - Pentagon (think beeper shape) completed
6/14/1947 - Crash
6/24/1947 - 9 Disk-like objects spotted flying near Mt. Rainier in WA
7/4/1947 - Milton claims the crash occurred
7/7/1947 - Farmer Brazel (from Foster Ranch) finally reports debris from Roswell crash to sheriff, who calls Roswell Army Air Field
11/14/1947 - Everet Hubble born
1950? - Observation of alien held in captivity by FBI ends (Escaped? Died?)
1952 - Atherton involved in Project Blue Book (Air Force project on aliens)
1959 - Atherton dies (murdered?)
1959 - Milton (Max's Boss) has picture with "alien" shadow next to him outside the Ice Cream Parlor
1962 - Agent Lewis - first head of Special Unit killed in CO
1967 - Agent Delbianco killed in TN
1970 - Sheila Hubble dies (murdered?)
1972 - Silo Murder occurs involving Hubble and Sheriff Valenti Senior
3/15/1983 - Max's birthday (Blood Bothers)
1989 - Pod Squad come out of the cave (look like 6-year-olds)
1992 - Max and Isabel "find" Michael again
1992? - Liz and Max "meet" in the 3rd grade for the first time (but may have been in the same school before this, just didn't meet.)
1999 - Agent Daniel Summers killed
9/17/1999 - Max saves Liz - and Roswell is Born!!
5/14/2000, 4:33 pm - Podsquad sets off communicators; evil aliens' beepers go off!
I know I have NOT covered everything, but that would be impossible and I'd never do anyone justice! There is lots of speculation about Pierce and other characters revolving around Liz, and why they are important to the discussion. Some have wondered why Max and Agent Stevens had the same address - just an inside joke or more? Tangents are welcome on this Thread as long as they ultimately lead back to Liz! :liz: I'm trying to sum up the core issues here - Liz's importance and connection to the podsquad - Max :max: in particular! I hope others will help fill in some of the gaps, but this is my attempt to continue the wonderful input, and make this thread accessible. Lots to think about!! So - theorize away!!! All theories on "Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology" are welcome. OH, BTW (I always have to add this - if anyone from THE WB reads this - WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LIZ/MAX :liz: / :max: CONNECTION IS CRITICAL TO THE SHOW, and that together Max and Liz make a incredible force to reckon with!!
A couple of general "rules" - No Spoilers, but anything "aired" is subject to discussion. Pictures are welcome, as is deleted dialog from posted scripts of shows that have been aired.
Zero
By shapeshifter 10-09-2000, 01:36 PM
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bump!
Here it is!
By redhawk 10-09-2000, 01:45 PM
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Oops, we're over here.
Well here is my post from the other #10.
Hi!
RBI sounds good to me, but it is up to our fearless leader Zero either way.
There is a link to Ron Moore's interview on the right side of the Crashdown home page.
Just thought I'd bring this over here.
Ron Moore stated:
quote:I'm still in love with all of them. But I will say that I find the Liz/Max relationship to be the heart and soul of the series. I think that both Shiri Appleby and Jason Behr are tremendous talents and I never get tired of watching them on camera
Ahh... a sigh of relief.
I believe the "Ask Not" does refer to that Kennedy speech. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." (Or something like that. It was Kennedy, wasn't it?)
Can't wait 'til tonight!
By GraceKel 10-09-2000, 01:56 PM
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Hello my fellow mythologists, thanks Zero and Shapeshifter for both starting new threads He!He!
REDHAWK all that work you did posting those beautiful promos and we change threads so sorry--but it was wonderful for you to do it.
RON MOORE where ever you are I LOVE YOU---I never get tired of seeing Max and Liz on the SCREEN either. I also think as many of us on this thread that Max and Liz are the heart and soul of Roswell and the central CORE of the story. SO GLAD YOU THINK SO TOO. Yipee!!!!!
Be back later folks after I read a bit.
By dreamin_away 10-09-2000, 02:00 PM
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So, are we postin on this thread now?
By GraceKel 10-09-2000, 02:07 PM
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DreaminAway I took it on the other thread that Shapeshifter said to come over here so that is what I did, I am assuming we will use this one right? Zero?
Okay anyone want to decipher this one, when Max is talking about all of last season in S&B he says, we have been aging like regular humans but clearly there are differences.
We proceed to see THREE CONDIMENTS
STEAK SAUCE, Ketchup(Isabel turning it to MUSTARD) and TOBASCO SAUCE BOTTLE------are three different types represented here? Or is there another meaning here? Anyone want to take a guess?
By HyperKitN 10-09-2000, 02:19 PM
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Wow! you guys almost confused me for a second. I hope the powers that be won't get mad at us. Thanx SS and Zero.
I am going to watch S&B's over since some of you have said that Katherine has said it was important. And look listen closely to the cuckoo scene.
Hey GK/Zero missed you guys this weekend. Where is Palomino and everyone else?
By Dreamdancer 10-09-2000, 02:29 PM
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Hey everyone. Redhawk would you mind posting some of the symbols here. My computer can't seem to get to the archive version. I am trying to compare some of the symbols from the book to some celtic and persian ruins. I would really appreciate.
Thanks ~Teryn~
By dreamin_away 10-09-2000, 02:43 PM
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Just back from the Crashdown and this is what I have to say-
RON MOORE ROCKS!!!!!!
By Zero 10-09-2000, 02:45 PM
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Hi all ! I want to appologize for any confusion, etc. I may have caused with the thread change! I was gone for three days, and opened up the site this morning to find thread #9 on page 12 and locked down due to length - I panicked, and started this thread after having lots of problems with getting it up. I didn't see the one by Shapeshifter - so maybe we can get the posts there moved here???? I guess I should have realized that you all would post away, and been prepared!! :eyespin:
I hope to summarize thread #9, but I'm headed out of town again for 5 days beginning Wednesday. IF the thread gets too long (now I know based on LisaB's post), Shapeshifter or someone, feel free to start #11. I have no ego involved here - just an honest interest in the show and a fondness for all you who post here!!
I have missed the last couple of pages of posts - so I'm behind on the topics, but I can hardly wait for tomorrow's discussion after tonight's show.
See you soon and thanks for your patience!
Zero
By Dareka 10-09-2000, 02:54 PM
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Wow, thread #10 already!
By Zero 10-09-2000, 03:05 PM
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Oh - Finally read Shapeshifter's thread - Thank you so much for starting that - if I had seen it, I would not have started this, ....
As far as a name goes - I'm open to ideas! What does RBI stand for? We could be the LITTAMs - first letters of the title, but I like something others can make sense of. Like "Visionaries" since we think Liz's visions are a key to her connection. Okay - other ideas???
Shapeshifter - I was being a good mom, but I'm sure no better than you!!
I've got to get caught up on this Cockoo stuff! And Redhawk - great quote from Ron Moore! It does rock!!
Also - The "Ask not" is from JFK's famous speech "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country!" I believe the Peace Corp evolved from that sentiment, and would fit with Max dealing with his "call" to his duty to protect his people and fight the bad aliens (Skins). I guess we will see tonight if that happens to be a subject of study in their new High School class. If so, it is a cool tie-in of history with current situation.
See you all soon!
Zero (PS - how come my smilie doesn't work, any suggestions on how to get that opened mouth smile?)
By Dreamdancer 10-09-2000, 03:21 PM
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I just wondered did anyone ever wonder why the aliens get sick in the indian tent ritual. Oh, and whoever asked about the dry lighting if you read rostafehrians thread it says that the goddess Turan ruled that element an ancient Estrucan name for venus or so I beleve I quoted right. Did anyone ever come up with a name.
By Evid 10-09-2000, 03:36 PM
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Hey, Here you are, I was just a little lost for a bit. We did the same thing at the Dreamers thread and we were afraid the Mods were coming by to chew us out. So beware Zero.
So, did anyone notice "WHAT" everyone was drinking in the Crashdown at the end of SB.
Maria had a RED drink, Michael and Tess a GREEN drink. They really made these drinks look important. Iz was pouring Maria's and they showed Alex mixing a green drink, I guess it was kool-aid. Max, Alex and Iz were not drinking anything.
Did any of you connect this to anything?
I think this means Michael and Tess are on the same side. But did this mean Alex serves Michael and Tess and Iz serves Maria. I just don't know, so what do the rest of you think?
Evid
By Starstruck 10-09-2000, 04:06 PM
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Hi everyone
Had the weekend off and went on a picking a pumpkin and leaf viewing ride. It was a beautifl weekend in upstate NY!
Palomino- I'd like to add one more to your about the symbols on the beeper. Perhaps those holding the beepers are also "good guys"- an alliance to the pod squad.
Michael tells Max in one of the early episodes (can't remember which one) amazing you can sleep when the KEY to our entire existance is out there, then of course he finds the key to Athertons dome. Then we hear Pierce on tape saying "I think the sheriff is the KEY to everything." What am I trying to say, I'm notsure, maybe the sheriff will have a more important role in all of this than even he could have ever dreamed of.
Evid- I thought the one flew over the Cukoo's nest line seemed like it was placed there on purpose for us clue seakers! I like the way you interpreted it! And GraceKel- we were thinking alike again- the pod chamber could be the Cukoo's nest. Harding does act Cukoo sometimes doesn't he>
Here's a question I don't think anyone has addressed yet. Why is it so important for M/T and M/I to produce an heir? They stress this on several occasions-
1 Isabel and Michaels dreams (it is a boy)
2 Tess's book which clearly shows Isabel and Tess pregnant
3 the conversation between Harding and Max in S&B-Harding" how have you and Tess been getting along", Max "Well I haven't performed any mateing rituals if that's what you're asking", Harding "you heard your destiny."
So why is it so esential for them to procreate?
At the hearing VW says in 1972 a body was found with silver markings. The Silo Murder takes place in 1972 could there be a connection?
Starstruck
By shapeshifter 10-09-2000, 04:18 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Zero:
...Also - The "Ask not" is from JFK's famous speech "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country!" I believe the Peace Corp evolved from that sentiment, and would fit with Max dealing with his "call" to his duty to protect his people and fight the bad aliens (Skins). I guess we will see tonight if that happens to be a subject of study in their new High School class. If so, it is a cool tie-in of history with current situation.
Once again Zero zeros in on the point! Which is why I didn't want to risk losing her--especially if she was already having computer probs. I can ***Really*** relate. I'm at work right now (after hours) and making good use of the the DSL -hehe
So, I will go see if I can grab RedHawks pix and drag em over here. See you real soon if I'm successful!
By shapeshifter 10-09-2000, 04:27 PM
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Actually, these were back on thread nine.
Here's the beeper symbols:
Here's the book symbols (RedHawk noticed the weird Z):
On these last 2, Redhawk pointed out "the one with the vertical line and 3 dots with a candycane symbol" also found on the beeper.
Well, that was quick--now home to my sloth-puter.
By RozRules 10-09-2000, 05:06 PM
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Zero: RBI stands for the Roswell Bureau of Investigation. A parallel to the FBI. I think so far I like the RBI the best. But Visionaries is really good too though. I think the ultimate decision should be left up to you though since you started all of this clue hunting madness
~Christina
By dreamin_away 10-09-2000, 05:30 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Starstruck:
Hi everyone
Here's a question I don't think anyone has addressed yet. Why is it so important for M/T and M/I to produce an heir? They stress this on several occasions-
1 Isabel and Michaels dreams (it is a boy)
2 Tess's book which clearly shows Isabel and Tess pregnant
3 the conversation between Harding and Max in S&B-Harding" how have you and Tess been getting along", Max "Well I haven't performed any mateing rituals if that's what you're asking", Harding "you heard your destiny."
So why is it so esential for them to procreate?
Starstruck
Good question!Hmmm...Can't think of anything yet.
By Zero 10-09-2000, 07:13 PM
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Starstruck - I just rewatch S&Bs and noticed the comment by Whitaker about a murder in 1972 with the Cadmium X residue - well, Sheila was killed in 1970 and the Silo murder happened in 1972. BUT the silo murder was Hubble with a gun, not an alien, so what murder is she talking about??
I also wondered about Pierce's comment over the phone to Whitaker - I know Valenti is not Tic Tac, but is there some other connection through his dad?
Sorry I've been out of the loop, and this may have been pointed out, but I thought it was interesting that Alex makes a point of stating that One Flew Over the Cockoo's Nest is playing "4" times - ummm! I like the pod analogy!!
I'm also at a lost to explain the urgency to produce an heir, but ... especially, if they are to return to the home planet!
As to a Name:
Okay - I like both 1) RBI (Roswell Bureau of Investigation) and 2) Visionaries - So, you all get to VOTE! We do live in a Democracy!!
Pick one, and note it in your post in the next 24 hours - most votes winS!!
Finally, while rewatching S&Bs a thought jumped into my head - what IF the home planet separated the TRUE Queen podster from the podsters for her own safety - knowing her intelligence and connection with Max would be important to their ultimate survival - and sent her in a separate transport. (Okay - you all know where I'm going here ) So, the True Queen is handed over to a trust human to be raised as a human, knowing that she would ultimately realize her destiny. The podsters - including Tess, the stand-in queen (think "Star Wars - the first episode") - are sent and "Planted" elsewhere. So, with maturity the True Queen begins to realize some of her powers - visions - but is not sure what to do with them ... okay, I could go on, but the True Queen is Liz. I've thought about her being part of the Indian Mythology, etc., but when Liz and Max where in Whitaker's office looking for information on the skeleton, something about the way they connected and worked together - Liz solving the hunt - made me think "Why would the home people risk all the Royal Four on one ship?" So - what do you think?
Zero (Vote!! RBI or Visionaries?)
By LizParkerfan 10-09-2000, 08:09 PM
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Zero-I like the name Visionaries.
Have you guys seen Ask not? Well anyway I'm just guessing, but I think that Congresswoman Whitaker is Sheila Hubble. And I think that the reason why she asked about the murder was to find the person who tried to kill her by getting the bones examined.
And now my mind is at ease reading the Ron Moore interview.
Bye
Remember is half alien.
100% Dreamgirl and Applesaucer.
By deidra e, jones 10-09-2000, 08:32 PM
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I posted this on the other thread!
Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology in coming to play. Liz is most important to Max's future with his people. Although I still think that Riverdog is the Key.
DeeDee
By deidra e, jones 10-09-2000, 08:32 PM
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I posted this on the other thread!
Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology in coming to play. Liz is most important to Max's future with his people. Although I still think that Riverdog is the Key.
DeeDee
By pieface 10-09-2000, 08:39 PM
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quote: "Why would the home people risk all the Royal Four on one ship?" So - what do you think?
Zero: You are a Wizard-this is a very good thought! Most "Royal" families do not fly on the same plane for the very reasons you mention. If one is to die the other will still be there to carry on. Maybe King Max has room for a Wizard around his round table at the Crashdown
The "Ask Not" episode is on here in CA in about 30 minutes. Anxious does not adequately describe me at this moment!
I don't post here normally so I will withhold my vote.
pieface
By HyperKitN 10-09-2000, 08:42 PM
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Hey Zero I kinda liked the Mythologist, but I guess nobody really liked that one. So maybe I'll go with RBI, but will be called feeby goons after that, hehehe.
I notice something & I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet. At the end of S&B's when Nasedo is on the growned and Max is trying to open his shirt. Nasedo puts his hand on Max's chest and on the previews when Max goes into the Crashdown he has a bloody hand print on his chest. Do you guys think that maybe Nasedo did something to Max before he died? I am in Cali so I haven't watched Ask Not yet.
By Zero 10-09-2000, 08:55 PM
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While you are mentioning Nasedo's death - did anyone else notice the weird mark on his chest?
Got to go - show is about to start!!
Zero
By Roswellrox 10-09-2000, 09:35 PM
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Wow! I'm way out of the loop! Boy, ya don't get on for three days and the threads moved and we're all voting on names! I've gotta be more consistant! I just watched Ask Not, and I have a few thoughts...
1. Okay, the whole thing with Max and Michael seems to be reaching a boiling point. I don't know what it is, but I'm kinda worried there. And how about that line of Max's in the UFO center. Michael: So what happens if you get killed? Max: Then you get to be the fearless leader. Oooo... I got chills!
2. Something occurred to me as I was watching the scene with Brody (was that his name) the new UFO guy... the beeper was all quiet when it was sitting on the table, but it turned on when Brody held it in his hand. Now, if it's true that Brody had been abucted (had an alien encounter) then maybe he was changed in some way so that he was more aware of things (his brain was more evolved). This would give merit to the theory of Liz's flashes and conection to them all occuring because of her alien encounter (Max's healing her).
3. EW! T*** needs to keep her grubby little hands off Max! She needs to get over it, and get on with the rest of the "destiny." And since when does T*** have the power to heal people? This makes me think they all have that ability.
4. VW seemed to recognize the name T***. That tells me she knows something, or she's catching on to something.
5. It's official Courtney is EVIL!!! She's the skin! Yes, keep her away from Michael! Sorry, had to let that out!
I was reading somewhere on the Crashdown an article that had some quotes from Jason and he was saying something about MAx and Iz and how they'd grown up thinking they were brother and sister, and now they find out it's supposed to be different. That's not an exact quote, but it made me think. Maybe we've been wrong about the momogram... Maybe the roll call goes like this:
1. Max- son/beloved leader
2. Iz- young bride
3. T***- daughter
4. Michael- betrothed/second in command (assuming that they are one in the same).
But that doesn't explain where the baby dreams came from. Oh, I don't know! I'm going crazy! :eyespin:
I don't know this could have been Jason just incorrectly explaining the story line, or could it have been a slip of info about the second season?
By Roswellrox 10-09-2000, 09:38 PM
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I forgot I kinda like RBI: Roswell Bureau of Investigation! It makes us sound really official!
By deidra e, jones 10-09-2000, 10:42 PM
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As each ep goes, there more to show that Liz is very important to the alien side of things. But she is human.
DeeDee
By shapeshifter 10-09-2000, 11:05 PM
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Well, I'd rather not be labeled, but if we must, RBI is better.
So, Zero, I knew the Kennedy quote well (talkin' 'bout my generation) but not that the Peace Corps was founded on it: how metaphorical to the new ep!
I started to post a theory on LSS's thread but erased it because it had plot holes. But it does kind of fit with the idea of dividing the royals... I'm thinking that the podsters' essences are not all from the same alien origin: Like maybe Tess & Michael have skin essences and Max & Iz have shapeshifter essences. The idea was to keep them from committing mutual genocide.
Okay, if GraceKel wants me to elaborate , I will. And yea, there's no more grin smilie.
One more thing: what was the meaning behind the "I'm coming for you" line (besides being Behrish? :picture big grin here: )?
By RozRules 10-09-2000, 11:11 PM
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I love both Visionaries and RBI so I'll be happy with whatever we get, but I think I like RBI a little better so thats my vote
Ok, I just had a scary thought while watching this episode. Yes, this whole thing with Max and Michael is definatly reaching a boiling point. In fact I think its already there, it just needs one more incident to break. And there was one scene in this eppy that added more fuel to the theory that Michael is an 'evil' alien. The communicator device only went off when he came around...it didn't do that to Max. They even said that themselves at the end of the eppy so the writers must have felt that that was a very important point to the story.
The device going off could mean two things.
1. Someone already brought this up. Brody was holding it when Michael came in. If Brody was altered when he was abducted that may have caused it.
2. Michael is bad. I REALLY don't want this to be true though. But lots of clues seem to be pointing their lately. I know he isn't a skin, but as mentioned before he could be an 'Anakin' type charector. Starts off good but then slowly turns to the other side.
This is another thought that I had at the very end of the eppy. WHY is Courtney so interested in him? Wouldn't she just want to kill him? Of course she could be getting close to him to do just that. BUT what if in their past life they were together? Michael turned to 'the darkside' (god this is so Star Wars) and then that is when him and Courtney got together. What do you guys think?
whew that was a long post and this is after just viewing the eppy once! I'll have much more to discuss after multiple viewings.^_^
Actually I just thought of one more. Where did Brody get the communicator? He said he got it 3 years ago. Any thoughts as to who had it before him?
~Christina
By shapeshifter 10-09-2000, 11:18 PM
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quote:Originally posted by RozRules:
...And there was one scene in this eppy that added more fuel to the theory that Michael is an 'evil' alien. The communicator device only went off when he came around...it didn't do that to Max. They even said that themselves at the end of the eppy so the writers must have felt that that was a very important point to the story.
The device going off could mean two things.
1. Someone already brought this up. Brody was holding it when Michael came in. If Brody was altered when he was abducted that may have caused it.
2. Michael is bad. I REALLY don't want this to be true though. But lots of clues seem to be pointing their lately. I know he isn't a skin, but as mentioned before he could be an 'Anakin' type charector. Starts off good but then slowly turns to the other side.
This is another thought that I had at the very end of the eppy. WHY is Courtney so interested in him? Wouldn't she just want to kill him? Of course she could be getting close to him to do just that. BUT what if in their past life they were together? Michael turned to 'the darkside' (god this is so Star Wars) and then that is when him and Courtney got together. What do you guys think?
...
I guess all those things could support my theory of Max & Michael having diffent essence origins (shapeshifter & skin). If Michael has Skin essence, then Courtney might go for him. But then I thought she did a little flirt with Max in S&b.
And about Whittaker being a Skin: Nasedo did use the plural form of the word: "They are among you now."
Him, so if Whittaker did get pg from Piercedo, then Max & Tess wouldn't have to have any kids to break the war of the 2 factions (if my theory is correct).
By Elmindreda 10-09-2000, 11:29 PM
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I'm a longtime lurker, but this is my first post on this thread. First, thanks to Zero especially and to all the other frequent posters for your wonderful insight into Liz's character.
I have a couple of theories about Liz and her possible connection to Sheila Hubble. I'm not sure I've got it all worked out, so please bear with me....
What if Sheila Hubble was pregnant, but not with her husband's baby? We know there's been at least one guardian type alien around for many years, possibly since the 1947 crash. So if Nasedo (or Tic Tac, if we assume that he's a separate person) did get involved with Sheila Hubble, her baby would have been half alien. What if during the autopsy, someone took that fetus and stuck it in a pod chamber to hatch several years later, then placed the baby for adoption?
Or, what if Sheila Hubble was pregnant with her husband's baby, but when she died, Nasedo or Tic Tac took the fetus and infused it with an alien essence, then put it in a pod chamber to hatch later.
Either way, the baby (Liz) would be part alien.
Another thought I've had....About the alien symbols, what if the four boxes in a row with dots in them with the fourth box open and another box outside it stood for the 4 pod squadders plus Liz? Is it possible that in his past life, Max had an arranged marriage to Tess, but also had a true love that he couldn't marry for political reasons, and she was his real soulmate? And this could be the essence infused into Sheila Hubble's baby.
I know I'm grasping at straws,
By czech please 10-09-2000, 11:37 PM
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ok, my head is swimming. i loved this ep so much and i feel really good about the rest of the season now. that said, here are some thoughts:
maria to max: follow your heart. isn't that what great leaders do?
gc to liz(leaving mormal)Promise me one thing, that you'll follow your heart wherever it takes you. Trust it. Will you do that?
it seems to me that liz's destiny is about the unfold in a big way.
also, maybe i'm reaching, but does the alien beeper remind anyone else of the triangle symbol on the fallout sign, which appeared at least five times in "ask not"?
i'll post more later, when i've fully processed!
By Evid 10-09-2000, 11:54 PM
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quote:Originally posted by HyperKitN:
.
I notice something & I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet. At the end of S&B's when Nasedo is on the growned and Max is trying to open his shirt. Nasedo puts his hand on Max's chest and on the previews when Max goes into the Crashdown he has a bloody hand print on his chest. Do you guys think that maybe Nasedo did something to Max before he died? I am in Cali so I haven't watched Ask Not yet.
HyperKitN: I also wondered how Max got the hand print. When Max fist tears open Nasedo's shirt and Max leans into heal him, Nasedo stops him by putting out his hand. This is when he must have put the print on Max. But what could he have done, and why leave such an obvious mark behind?
I also noticed that the burn on Nasedo's chest was in the shape of a star that is similar to the shape of the new found device.
Questions, Questions, Questions but no answers in sight.
Oh, I forgot to cast my vote....... Walks into the booth and shuts the curtin behind her, let's see now hummmmmmm RBI sounds good and it's faster to type. Now that I have done my civil duty I will say goodnight RBI's.
Evid
By shapeshifter 10-10-2000, 12:16 AM
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asleep at th wheel here, but I just noticed the significance of your name: "czech please"
Very nice double entendre. . . which is what the RBI's hunt for, n'est-ce pas?
By shaiwon72 10-10-2000, 12:24 AM
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i'm voting for RBI
this episode was much better than s&b. just when liz was holding max's face in her hands... he definitely had a dazed look to him. he seemed coherent when he was telling them that nasedo was dead and just when liz was holding max...he almost had a dreamy look in his eyes. even when tess healed him, he still looked at liz. i wonder if she had some calming images sent to him.. hmmm
when max was giving that speech to liz... she looked as if she wanted to say something but held herself back. what's up w/ that? things are definitely coming into play. it was great to see the old liz smile.. if not brief.
By czech please 10-10-2000, 12:49 AM
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random thought before bed:
is anyone else just dying to see liz and tess finally have it out. they pretty much ignore each other, but there were daggers flying at the end of the ep. and geez,could max have gotten up out of that booth any faster? that's my boy!
p.s.-i vote rbi...'cuz thought of it! :-} goodnight y'all.
By RozRules 10-10-2000, 01:46 AM
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<
Good point Shapshifter. I've been pondering for a while if Courtney could be Whittaker's daughter....they do look a lot alike. Also I don't think Courtney killed Nasedo, I think it was Whittaker.
I wonder if Whittaker found out that she was diddling Piercado and not the real Pierce...
~Christina
By Melodious1 10-10-2000, 02:37 AM
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quote:Originally posted by czech please:
maria to max: follow your heart. isn't that what great leaders do?
gc to liz(leaving mormal)Promise me one thing, that you'll follow your heart wherever it takes you. Trust it. Will you do that?
it seems to me that liz's destiny is about the unfold in a big way.
I also caught the similarities in those two lines Czech. Although, there's something I must consider...Of the two individuals those very similar lines were directed, Max is the one we *know* is special at the moment. Max is the "beloved leader" of this alien race... but what does that make Liz (in comparison)? Could this just be a possible reference to her connection to Max (which is more than enough for me ) or could Liz in fact be some kind of leader herself? She generally seems to be the one that effects Max's decisions the most. In THIS "destiny", could Liz be Max's new second-in-command (considering Michael isn't really fitting the bill imo, however, he could fall into line eventually. Hopefully he does. I'd hate to see Mike turn Darth Vader).
quote:...also, maybe i'm reaching, but does the alien beeper remind anyone else of the triangle symbol on the fallout sign, which appeared at least five times in "ask not"?
I thought of that briefly, but honestly Czech... the one thing I almost *always* remember when I see those pentagonal (is that a word?) alien beeper things is the symbol on Atherton's dome all the way back in 285S. The symbol was a very obvious pentagon, five pie sections (JUST like the alien beepers). Could Atherton have had a connection to the EA (hence he was killed), or in light of the intro. of this Brody character, could Atherton have been an abductee (possibly with more detailed memories than Brody. Because of these 'detailed memories' he was killed)?
Melodious
By Melodious1 10-10-2000, 03:06 AM
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I originally posted the below on the Sci Fi thread. I thought it might be a bit more relevant here (considering there are probably a few more here that share my view of Tess - a general sort of disdain ).
In regards to Tess' healing abilities. I honestly think it's something all the podsters can do. The podsters powers are basically adv. human powers/abilities, am I correct? Well, looking at current humans.... all of us can run, but we're not all Michael Johnson. Hence, perhaps the podsters basically all have similar (human) powers, but each has their own *strengths* in particular areas. Maybe they all can heal, but Max is just a bit better at it then the rest (or does it differently, as they all might heal differently, amongst other things). Perhaps they all can blast Feds, but that's Mike's specialty?
***
Did anyone else think it's just a TAD odd that Tess JUST NOW brings up these supposed memories and/or this supposed memory retrieval process Harding apparently taught her? I'd think this should have been one of the first things she'd tell Max and/or the podsters (if it's true)? Especially if it meant him loving her again (and Mike loving Isabel vice versa). Which would make this "destiny" stuff (all aspects) much easier to take I'd think? Am I right? Why did she wait so long?? If she indeed has this knowledge (or any knowlegde) that could jog the podsters apparently 'dormant' memories, you'd think she'd have told them / taught them to obtain these memories by now! It seems kind of fishy to me. It really makes the podsters distrust of her kind of understandable! She's holding back information on them! Although, not saying this Tess info is all truthful (which I do doubt). The girl is hiding something I tell you! I just haven't put my finger on what yet (although, it wouldn't surprise me if it had something to do with Max NOT loving her in the former life... if she was indeed part of his former life in the first place)!
***
OR
Could Max, Mike & Is be specifically designed NOT to remember the past lives? One thing, however, rather disturbed me in Ask Not. It requires some serious slomo (and this has already been posted on the Sci Fi thread), but one of the flashes that Max has just prior the attempted murder of Brody is VERY bizarre. The flash is rather disgusting, it looks like a skinned head of *something* with a blackened, cloudy eyeball (something I NEVER remember seeing in Season 1 and obviously not in Season 2 as yet). It almost want to say it looks like a bloodied, alien carcass. In light of the recent talk of "past life flashbacks" above (via Tess), could this have possibly been a flashback from Max's former life?
Melodious
By huggybehr 10-10-2000, 03:39 AM
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quote:Originally posted by HyperKitN:
I notice something & I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet. At the end of S&B's when Nasedo is on the growned and Max is trying to open his shirt. Nasedo puts his hand on Max's chest and on the previews when Max goes into the Crashdown he has a bloody hand print on his chest. Do you guys think that maybe Nasedo did something to Max before he died? I am in Cali so I haven't watched Ask Not yet.
Nobody seems to have responded yet, so I'll have a go. Perhaps Nasedo transferred some additional powers to Max, to enable him to better protect himself against the skins. I also haven't seen the episode yet, but I believe that Max demonstrates a new power in this one?
P.S. I know I've been MIA for a while, but I vote for RBI
Peace, love and Roswell
By StephStephSteph 10-10-2000, 07:07 AM
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So, I have a theory. Nacedo couldn't be brought back by the stones. Now.. either he couldn't be brought back by the stones because of what Max said ("the skins did something we can't reverse") OR he couldn't be brought back because Liz wasn't in the room!
Remember, she WAS in the room with Michael.. and with Nacedo the first time! Maybe she's the key and they just haven't realized it.
And I just have to comment.. how CUTE was Max .. "I'm coming for you, Liz" *swoon*
By StephStephSteph 10-10-2000, 09:36 AM
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OK, here's a bump in hopes of getting some more responses! Come on peeps - I live for this thread!
By Melodious1 10-10-2000, 09:54 AM
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quote:Originally posted by StephStephSteph:
So, I have a theory. Nacedo couldn't be brought back by the stones. Now.. either he couldn't be brought back by the stones because of what Max said ("the skins did something we can't reverse") OR he couldn't be brought back because Liz wasn't in the room!
Remember, she WAS in the room with Michael.. and with Nacedo the first time! Maybe she's the key and they just haven't realized it.
I thought of this too Steph, but I keep recollecting Nasedo's very first healing (River Dog apparently healed a Nasedo once sans a single podster or Liz). However, since I'm a believer in the 2 shapeshifter theory... I still believe that there could be confusion concerning who the *real* Nasedo is (or who RD believes to be Nasedo). Perhaps RD healed TicTac and not Harding? BUT, if it IS Liz that was the missing factor in the failure of healing Harding in AN (d*mn, I really want to believe this!), I *must* wonder now if there's a connection between RD and Liz? Something that's been speculated on before, I know. How are BOTH seemingly able to contribute to the healing process? (RD with Nasedo and later with Michael. Liz -possibly- with Michael, "Balance and Harding, "Destiny") They're humans as far as we can tell, but why are they so special (the eternal question)?? btw, if RD was there, could Edsedo have been healed? Or if they followed the same procedure in Michael's healing? They should have dragged Maria, Liz & Alex with them just in case and swung by Mesaliko for RD! I suppose we'll never know.
quote:And I just have to comment.. how CUTE was Max .. "I'm coming for you, Liz" *swoon*
I SECOND that! That entire line is forever going down in the Dreamer history books. JB and Ron Moore are simply gods among men!
Melodious
By Zero 10-10-2000, 10:01 AM
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Elmindreda - Welcome - I have also thought the five box symbol (with dots and one open) may represent the podsters + Liz, and we all (mostly) wonder about the fact that SH was pregnant, and how that works into the storyline. I thought Ron Moores' interview (posted on the Crashdown) was interesting when he made the point that they (the writers) were trying to tie in the "clues" from last year and keep it a tight story from that perspective! We may see things we've theorized yet??
Czech Please - Though I've only watched it once - the statement that stood out to me was Maria stating to Max "Follow your heart - isn't that what all the Great Leaders do?" So - when Grandma Claudia made that comment to Liz was she foreshadowing what we all suspect - that Liz, too, is to be a great leader, and to reach her potential she must "follow her heart"! I think that statement was deliberately made by the writers to tie the two scenes together! BOTH Liz and Max - to reach their potential (some may say Destiny) must follow their hearts - and we ALL KNOW where that leads!! Mel - I don't see Liz as a second in common, but as an equal to Max - a significant difference!
Redhawk - THANK YOU belatedly for the pictures of the symbols! I wish I could save them to refer to them. Could you - when the screne caps are up - post a picture of Harding's chest with the "branding." I think there is a clue there. I wonder about the bloody handprint on Max's chest, too - ummmm!
I've been pondering Whitaker. I too wondered if she is the Skin that killed Harding. The timing would work - she and Pierce had just finished diddling when he heads back to chat with Max to see if Max and Liz had found anything. She follows him - the Skin was out by where his car was parked. BUT - I don't think she is a Skin - and here is why. I think she is a human (like real Pierce) involved in the hunt for aliens, and knew lots more than she let on about Pierce's original mission and target. I also - though I have that "Royalty separated and sent in separate ships" theory (I'm not always consistent) - think Liz is all human and Whitaker is using her to cozzy up to the aliens to find out more. She doesn't want to act until she knows more. NOW - Behr with me - I digress to a former theory about the aliens coming to Earth time and again for thousands of years, and that the "humans" as we know them - Liz, Maria, etc. - are really descendants for some of these visitors. (Palomino - don't get mad at me for the science issues here .) All humans are hybrids of a sort. Plus, what if the Skins are not the only other alien race around. The Skins are evil, but there are others out there - good and evil, and some a mixture of both. Maybe we will find that Courtney is not all evil, but a mixture. Characters with a mix of good and evil sometime make for the most interesting characters! Some humans are more evolved or in touch with their "alien" side - like Liz - without realizing that is what it is. I thought it was interesting that Max could "feel" the Skin following him at school. Plus - due to that he discovers his new "force field" power! Cool!
Mel - I have to agree with you about Tess not telling the podsters about her recovered memories. This relates to something that REALLY BUGS ME - if I was a podster, I would have immediately insisted on "Alien 101" being taught to learn everything possible about myself and those around me. Why have to Stumble onto the truth. Like the Skins - why didn't Harding/Nasedo warn them about the Skins earlier??
AND I definitely have to Grace Kel that flash of Max's! A pacifist leader - huh - seemed pretty brave to me!
Steph - I also wondered if Liz's absent at the healing coule have tipped the Balance in a way that the stones would not work? Just have to wait -
Okay - sorry this is so long. Got to rewatch the episode! Loved the scene where Max confronts Liz, but still have to ponder it all. Especially, how Whitaker fits into it all! That fake "drown my misery" scene was interesting!!
Zero (Don't forget to vote - RBI or Visionaries! RBI is ahead!)
By Jasons Angel 10-10-2000, 10:13 AM
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Hello All!!
WOW..great observations & comments everyone!! I usually just lurk here (I love this thread!!) but I just wanted to give you all my thoughts on a certain line spoken by Max last night in "Ask Not". I've been thinking about this since I read about this line in the spoilers last week....
"Just know this...I'm coming for you Liz" - I don't know why but as soon as I read this line in the spoilers (and especially last night after I watched the episode)- I have this feeling that this isn't the first time Max has said this to Liz...well not in "this" lifetime anyway. "Behr" with me guys..... but what if Liz was a part of Max's other life?!?! Ok...so according to T*** - she & Max were supposedly together in this other life of theirs. (YUCK!!) But what if Max did not love her (Tess)..what if Liz was part of his other life and he was in love with her...maybe before he (along with the others) perished he told Liz that he was "coming for her" - you know...like someday I'll be back (maybe not in this lifetime but in another one and I'll come for you and we'll be together once again) - Maybe that is why there was that instant recognition when they were children. I will never get over the look on their faces when they were kids and they saw each other when Max was getting off of the bus.
I don't know..what do you guys think...you probably think I am delusional!! I think I am too!! Does this make sense to you guys?!?! It must be the Dreamgirl and the hopeless romantic in me!! I just adore Max & Liz and I want them to be together forever!! In this lifetime and in any others!!
Just wondering what you guys think about this?!?!
Angela
aka Jason's
By Tweety 10-10-2000, 10:46 AM
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Hi guys, I don't post here often because you guys are way too ahead of me; but I have a thought that just wont leave my head.
>From different clues or sources it seems that maybe one or more of these four could have been on the wrong side in the past. Maybe these four were "hatched" in the pods and kept an eye on to try to find out who is on what side.
OK say Liz is Nancy and Jeff's natural born daughter. Is it possible that maybe one night while on a camping trip, sleeping under the stars Nancy was taken to a ship and a embryo implanted and put back without any recollection of the event? From what I've heard of people who have been abducted, some don't even remember until years later, if ever. This is the general gist of my idea, I know if you guys think it has any merit you can expound on what I'm saying.
By dreamin_away 10-10-2000, 10:46 AM
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quote:Originally posted by czech please:
random thought before bed:
is anyone else just dying to see liz and tess finally have it out. they pretty much ignore each other, but there were daggers flying at the end of the ep. and geez,could max have gotten up out of that booth any faster? that's my boy!
p.s.-i vote rbi...'cuz thought of it! :-} goodnight y'all.
And what a good boy he is!!!:blinky:
By jen2themax 10-10-2000, 11:01 AM
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quote:Originally posted by shaiwon72:
i'm voting for RBI
this episode was much better than s&b. just when liz was holding max's face in her hands... he definitely had a dazed look to him. he seemed coherent when he was telling them that nasedo was dead and just when liz was holding max...he almost had a dreamy look in his eyes. even when tess healed him, he still looked at liz. i wonder if she had some calming images sent to him.. hmmm
when max was giving that speech to liz... she looked as if she wanted to say something but held herself back. what's up w/ that? things are definitely coming into play. it was great to see the old liz smile.. if not brief.
shaiwon72- I also noticed the look on his face! I think he may have had a flash sent by Liz. Of what, I don't know...maybe something she found out about herself when she went to FL???
Liz did seem like she really wanted to say something to Max during his "I'm coming for you, Liz" speech. You could see an internal struggle going on in there!
Whoa! the one eyeball, skinned alien thingy was horrid! I had to Grace Kell the flashback to see it. Creepy!
By LSS 10-10-2000, 11:29 AM
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Hi Liz/Mythology folk!
Want to have a bit of a debate?
First of all let me say that:
1) I am a dreamer through and through
2) Max and Liz are destined for each other, I have no question about this.
3) Max is a far better leader with Liz by his side. Liz has proven her devotion and brillance in this area time and time again.
Okay...the above was meant to assure you that I am in your general "camp" when it comes to Max and Liz (though like those who post on this board we may disagree on some of the details).
Now........
Did any of you find thatlast declaration by Max to Liz rather jarring and somehow demeaning to Max as leader? I did.
This entire episode was structured (overtly) around the Cuban missile crisis and JFK's response. And of course the episode's title "Ask not" says it all.
Covertly, throughout the episode, we see Max internalizing JFK's example and message and utilizing what he learns to make his own decisions. All of this is well and good...even noble (hey--I liked JFK).
And then...at the very end...what does Max do but proclaim that he doesn't care about all of his responsibilities as leader???? That all he cares about is Liz? Damn everything else?
You know I knew what Max was going to say (I have a friend who watched the eppy before it aired). and my dreamer heart was all aflutter (even my 12 yr old said...Go Max!). I guess what I didn't factor in was the impact that the JFK material would have on me. I want a noble Max with Liz by his side facing the future...but not at the expense of my respect for him.
Soooooo...I'd like to hear from any of you on this thread concerning the above. I know in the end that the private is where the heart is....but did any of you feel uneasy when Max veared toward abdication of his duties? BTW--even if the momogram turns out to be fake...Max doesn't know that yet (unless you argue that he intuites it).
LSS
By StephStephSteph 10-10-2000, 11:30 AM
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Totally unrelated to Liz (as far as I could tell), but WHAT was that flash of stuff Max saw during his "attack"? I saw things I understood, like Liz and the White Room and some other stuff that I can't remember off the top of my head, but.. what was that skinless looking thing? Has anyone analyzed these screen caps? Or does anyone have any for that matter!?
By LSS 10-10-2000, 11:41 AM
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On another matter...we have a lurker turned poster on the SF thread that posted something I thought you'd like to read. Sorry if someone else has said this on this thread but I thought of you all when I read it:
quote:Originally posted by cindylouwho:
Hi, I've been lurking on this wonderful thread for at least 8 months....So here goes, what if the healing of Harding was not successful because this was the only time Liz was not present when they used the healing stones?
What do you think?
By StephStephSteph 10-10-2000, 11:43 AM
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quote:Originally posted by LSS:
On another matter...we have a lurker turned poster on the SF thread that posted something I thought you'd like to read. Sorry if someone else has said this on this thread but I thought of you all when I read it:
What do you think?
I think I just said that
By RozRules 10-10-2000, 11:45 AM
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Ok, here is a screencap of that thing.
What.....the......hell....is THAT??
By LSS 10-10-2000, 11:48 AM
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Stephstephsteph:
Sorry if you posted that before...this thread is very long and I only surf it periodically. And mostly I lurk for just that reason.
LSS
By StephStephSteph 10-10-2000, 11:55 AM
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quote:Originally posted by RozRules:
Ok, here is a screencap of that thing.
What.....the......hell....is THAT??
YUCK YUCK YUCK!!!!
(No problem, LSS, just joking around )
By RozRules 10-10-2000, 12:05 PM
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Ok, time to start analysis of the promo for next week I know this may not directly relate to Liz, but I think everything in Roswell is tied to Liz somehow, so here they are Once again the people behind the show have intercut VERY briefly things that don't seem like they should be there. Not quite sure what these are....could they be symbols?
By StephStephSteph 10-10-2000, 12:11 PM
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Where'd you see those, RozRules?
By dreamin_away 10-10-2000, 12:19 PM
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quote:Originally posted by LSS:
On another matter...we have a lurker turned poster on the SF thread that posted something I thought you'd like to read. Sorry if someone else has said this on this thread but I thought of you all when I read it:
What do you think?
I think Liz is way more important than they're wantin us to think. Hopefully they'll surprise us with somethin by the end of the season!Hopefully somethin totally unpredictable, I like surprises!
By Melodious1 10-10-2000, 12:25 PM
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quote:Originally posted by LSS:
Did any of you find thatlast declaration by Max to Liz rather jarring and somehow demeaning to Max as leader? I did....
Soooooo...I'd like to hear from any of you on this thread concerning the above. I know in the end that the private is where the heart is....but did any of you feel uneasy when Max veared toward abdication of his duties? BTW--even if the momogram turns out to be fake...Max doesn't know that yet (unless you argue that he intuites it).
Well, since I'm on the boat of "The podsters' destiny is humanity/Earth not Planet Twilo"; I suppose my opinion is very biased (take it with a grain of salt). I did kind of see that Max's decision to 'choose Liz' over everything (almost seeming to veer towards 'abdictation' as you state LSS) was a little odd, but I'm inclined to argue it intuitive, instinctual. Simply for my strong belief that Max is *indeed* a good leader. He wouldn't have said something so blatantly contrary to his position w/out having good reason behind (good *instinct* I should say).
Max seems one who does have very good instincts from the getgo. An example just from last night's ep, Max's reluctance to kill Brody. I believe Brody is merely just the run-of-the-mill abductee / ufo nut, nothing more. This season's Milton. Despite ALL the evidence pointing at Brody as a possible, very dangerous threat (and the slight chance is still open for this, however, I doubt it)... Max, simply going on instinct ("This isn't us"), stopped a man from being murdered by their hands.
Granted, some could argue it was fear domineering Max's decision, and they're probably right, but I also have the firm belief this fear is garnered by Max's *strong* instincts. He is seemingly afraid of losing his humanity, Liz and the only home he's ever known. Hypothetically speaking, let's just say it's not necessarily "fear", but once again, instinct possibly manifesting as 'fear'. Instinct to stay on Earth? Instinct to stay with Liz? Could all of Max's instincts be screaming at him that EARTH is his 'destiny'? He's just not able to register these instincts yet. Max indeed could be clouded by biased (intense) feelings of love and nostalgia for this home, the only one he's ever known, losing himself - which are very undeniable distractions, but are ALSO the product of the choice the Podians made in sending Max to Earth. Despite what their original plans might have been. Max is the leader he is now entirely because of his life on Earth (well, almost entirely I'd think. Depending on how much this "alien essence"/programming actually effected forming the person he's become. If Tess and/or Harding are at all truthful/accurate; apparently a very different person than he was on Twilo!). The podians had chosen Earth for some reason... could one of them be because they believed Max would be a *better* leader on Earth than he was on Planet Twilo?
Going back to Liz, regardless of whether Max would actually 'abdicate' his thrown for her (which, after AN, I'd have to think could be a very high possibility); Max's leadership capabilities are often the reflection of Liz's own wishes / contribution / encouragement. So, I believe, Liz is already a major (irreversible) catalyst in Max's leadership and decision making (more often for the better). I really don't think this will ever change and I wouldn't want it to (but of course, that's the diehard Dreamer in me talking ). I want to believe that it's Liz who will be the "beloved leader's" compliment in 'destiny', not his hinderance.
Melodious
By Melodious1 10-10-2000, 12:31 PM
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BTW... What is that THING?! I speculated earlier on this thread about Max's memories of his former life... please don't tell me that's one of them?! I'd have to say... if THAT is what Max (Mike, Is and/or Tess) possibly looked like BEFORE he (they) died and was (were) technologically reincarnated, then HUZZAH for the Podians!! I MUCH prefer the current shell!! .
Looks like something out of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea or something. Squid eyes! Yikes.
Melodious
By RozRules 10-10-2000, 12:41 PM
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StephStephSteph: Its in the promo for 'Suprise' next week. I didn't notice it at all until I Grace Kelled it.
Also, about the flash that Max has of that gross thing. Since he was having flashes about people who died or almost died, I think its safe to say that whatever that was died and he is just remembering it....I really hope that is not what they looked like before coming to earth though.
By RozRules 10-10-2000, 01:05 PM
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Ok, I guess I am just on a major roll today or something!
Looking back at that pic, it looks like there is a reflection of a person in its eye! I could be wrong, but thats what it looks like to me. So I decided to try and enhance it, but its very blurry, but to me it looks like someone with a cowboy hat on. Could someone try to get a better screen cap of this scene? One that is clearer. What does everyone think about this? Gosh, all these new theories flying around
The Eye:
By StephStephSteph 10-10-2000, 01:15 PM
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Well, to me, the gross picture looks like a skinned horses head, so therefore that Cowboy theory would be accurate (or at least go along the same theme). Then again.. I don't actually SEE the cowboy with the hat on, but.. I've been known to go brain dead around 4:00 (oh, and it's 4:07 PM)
Oh yeah.. and haven't even a remote thought on how that could be related to the Pod Squad or our Liz!
By dreamin_away 10-10-2000, 01:20 PM
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I just have one thing to say:
What The Freakin Hell Is That Thing!!!!!!
By czech please 10-10-2000, 01:31 PM
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this thread had warped my fragile little mind!
on the skinned head thingie: ok. i'm glad other people mentioned that, because i thought i was just nuts. what the hell??? i-slo-moed, but i still have no clues to what it was. of course, that whole sequence of images freaked me out. i think it was supposed to tell us/hint at something, but i just don't know what.
brody: all he remembers about his abduction is "the color of the walls and the smell of burning hair." hmmm...were the walls white, by chance. just a thought.
finally, something for all you 4+1 folks: that date of the mom-o-gram (according to this ep, anyway): may 14. 5/14. 5=1+4. maybe nothing...but maybe not.
******************
"pay more attention, isabel.
there are signs all around you."
By dreamin_away 10-10-2000, 02:27 PM
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quote:Originally posted by czech please:
this thread had warped my fragile little mind!
finally, something for all you 4+1 folks: that date of the mom-o-gram (according to this ep, anyway): may 14. 5/14. 5=1+4. maybe nothing...but maybe not.
******************
"pay more attention, isabel.
there are signs all around you."
Cool, never noticed that!
By RozRules 10-10-2000, 02:42 PM
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Yeah, your right about that date. 5=1+4
About the ummm thing....Anyone think it could be a cows head? I've heard something about aliens mutilating cows or something somewhere^_^ I still think that looks like a person reflected in the eye...
I'm not sure how it relates to the pod squad or Liz, but it must be relevant somehow or else they wouldn't have shown it.
~Christina
By Zero 10-10-2000, 02:43 PM
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Jason's Angel - I love your idea about Max coming for Liz based on Past events in another lifetime! Totally cool. I think anything is possible, and have to admit I now have about three or four Paths I could see the writers going down, all totally cool!
Tweety - I think most of us think that something like that is possible. And the alien pulse machine going off with Micheal but not Max definitely raises BIG questions concerning WHY?! vs. Also, what if Michael wasn't Number 2, but Isabel was - she sure is decisive when she needs to be - "We have to kill him Max!"
Zero
By shaiwon72 10-10-2000, 03:10 PM
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yeah.. i've been wondering why would max say that he was coming for liz. they may have had a previous life relationship... why else would max have zoned in on liz when he first got off the school bus as a child. the draw was there and she also looked at him. must be some sort of vibes that both felt. maybe being kids, they didn't understand that sense and maybe on liz's part, it was dormant and when max healed her, brought back the vibe senseing.
ok... my mind is getting loopy.
what is that thing?! i was putting my tivo on slow mo to figure that out. maybe as a kid they killed a cow? ok... that was off base.
By Zero 10-10-2000, 03:11 PM
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That flash of Max's is strange! It shows killings of various forms that Max has been present for - so we can assume that the strange head tht looks like it has been badly burned with a large eye must also be a killing that Max was present for at sometime in the past. Very strange!! ummmm
LSS - I'm watching that scene again right now. I too had a similar reaction as you, BUT I think he is not truly abdicating his responsibilities to his people and planet, just reminding her that she too is important to him! and in this life (very much a human life) - as he knows it - his love for her is on the same level as everything else, and he will not let that go, no matter what she feels, or his stated "destiny" is. I hope that makes sense! I go back to the question - I think Mel hits on it - Why did the Pod Squad get sent to Earth in Human form using human DNA? They are completely Human according to Harding/Nasedo - was the plan to take the alien essence out of the human corpse and reimplant it in an alien being later on?? They MUST have realized that establishing them as humans would play into their choices and ultimate destiny. Here's that Nature vs. Nurture argument again!
I agree that Liz looked like she wanted to say something to Max, but something (that is the key word here) is holding her back. It could be her sense of duty to Max's destiny, but it could be that and something else combined. I still think Liz is up to something!
Oh and LSS - A number of us have thought about the fact that Liz was not present might have influenced the inability for the healing stones to work! You obviously have some great minds on the Sci Fi thread!! Send that person over here to lurk too!
RozRules - THANKS for the picture. In motion, it looks like the thing on the right is an ear, and it looks like a bad case of sunburn or skin peeling??? Maybe it is a dying Skin - or what our Podsters truly look like! (EWWW!) And unless Max can see into the future, this has to be from the past - a tramatic experience given the visions surrounding it! Maybe it is what Tess truly looks like, those repressed memories finally surfacing!
Zero VOTE - RBI is winning, Any Visionaries out there???
By redhawk 10-10-2000, 03:20 PM
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ah... so much to talk about!
But before I start, I'm with ss in that I'm not sure we even need or want a label, but if we're getting one, I go with RBI.
Originally posted by Czech please:
quote:brody: all he remembers about his abduction is "the color of the walls and the smell of burning hair." hmmm...were the walls white, by chance. just a thought.
I thought the exact same thing. Hmm.
Now about that really gross flash/vision, may I just say "ICK!" I knew I saw raw flesh and I was hoping someone else saw it too, but I was afraid to slow-mo it and now I can see why. Ick!
Just a few things about AN:
Could Max sense the Skin when he was in school? And why can't he feel something is off with Courtney? I'm thinking meybe the podsquad can sense them when they are "invisible" and not when they've taken the actual outer appearance of a human. Hmm.
Why did the beeper pulse at Michael and not Max? (The writers do point out the difference, so it must be important.) Does each beeper recognize only one person? Than why 5 lights and 6 symbols?
Well, I think I'm now under the impression that VW hired Liz to keep her close and get more answers. Why does VW recognize the name "Tess"? Were M/M/I talking about Tess in the apartment when the FBI was taping them and did Pierce show her the tapes?
Liz had better be careful around her.
I agree with czech please & Melodious1, these lines definitely stood out.
"Try and follow your heart. Isn't that what the great leaders always do?" Maria stated to Max. The writers obviously used those same lines again for a reason. Is Liz the great leader of the human race?
The line that has been sticking under my skin since last night, though, is "I'm coming for you, Liz." Okay, my first reaction is to *swoon*, but then the way it is phrased bothers me. Now, like LSS, the denial of Destiny and leadership bothers me a little, but it's more like I feel I've heard those words before. I've been feeling like my brain has been trying to recall something eversince last night, but I'm not sure what. I had the same thought as Jason'sAngel, about Max coming for Liz in this lifetime. To me, usually "I'm coming for you" in the movies and TV and books usually means one of two things. It usually either implies rescue. Is Max needing to rescue Liz from something? Or else (now don't throw arrows, I'm completely a dreamer here.) it is said by the "bad" guy, as in "I'm going to get you". Now I still believe that it was probably just there to make us swoon, but why does its phrasing recall both bad and good things from deep inside my brain. Hmm...
Okay, Courtney is an EA for sure... She didn't even wash her hands after flushing the toilet. Can we all say Ewww!
I know, I know, I think too much.
I'll see what I can do about those symbol posts of mine.
Hey Zero you can get the BIG smile smilie by typing : grin : with no spaces. I guess the new board has new smilie shortcuts.
By Melodious1 10-10-2000, 03:28 PM
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quote: from Into the Woods
KYLE: That summer, they found 5 cows, all of them mutilated with surgical precision on Haddie Wexler's farm. When she died 2 months later they did an autopsy, and sure enough, they found perfectly bored holes in her skull just where she claims the aliens made them when they abducted her that night. That skull is now buried deep somewhere within area 51.
Some have speculated that...ahem... the thing from Max's vision could be a skinned cow's head. I remembered the above line from "Into the Woods", thought it could be relevant, maybe not, I don't know. WHY would Max remember it if it is a mutilated cow's head? WHY would aliens mutilate cows in the first place? Perhaps this is a discussion more appropriate for the sci fi thread (but d*mn, that's gross!).
Melodious
By czech please 10-10-2000, 03:44 PM
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i can't stay away today! more questions to ponder:
"i'm coming for you, liz"- it seemed to me that he put the emphasis on *you*. maybe this is foreshadowing a time when he will have to choose between liz and tess. or maybe refering to a choice he made in the past.
buddhism-at first, i just thought of this as part of kyle's comic relief storyline, but now i wonder. one of the tenets of buddhism is reincarnation, fixing mistakes that you made in past lives and learning new things until you are rewarded with a higher form. a metaphor for roswell? are the writers trying to steer us this way, or did they just pull buddhism out of their hats?
liz/whitaker-i wonder if it was liz's idea to tell the congresswoman pierce had left, or if it was a group decision. it seems like she made it up on the spot, which would be her saving the pod squads butts yet again.
tess-where the hell was she when the rest of the pod squad was having their little adventure? do they exclude her, or is she just not around when they need her? and what's she doing with all that free time?
**************
"pay more attention, isabel.
there are signs all around you."
By Starstruck 10-10-2000, 03:47 PM
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Hi everyone
I just wanted to sy that I LOVED this episode of Ask Not. Applause to the writers. I must admit I was worried after S&B.
OK, so I was wrong about the noctournal thing, but was thrilled to see my 14 theory panning out!
I watched the show over a couple times already and these are some of my thoughts (yes, I took notes, how sad is that LOL)
1- the pod chamber definitely looks different from season 1, even the spot where they place Harding to try to heal him is different.
2- Tess and Courtney are the same coloring- blonde and light eyes. Could Tess be of the Skins race and we just don't know it yet?
3- Michael wears plain silver rings, Courtney has the same type ring on.
4- I enjoyed the irony that Kyle was studying Buddhism over the summer and the Budda Statue is what showed us who Tess really was.
5- When Kyle gets off the bus under the Depot sign you see a vending machine that says Royal Crown.
6- After Isabel tells Max I'm too young to be dust and walks away you see a shadow on the wall. Is this the shadow of the skin who was watching them?
7-Why would the guy be in the storage room with a torch. Did anyone else find that odd?
8- there was an Eagle on the front of the bus that Kyle comes home on, there are Eagles painted on the wall of Witakers office.
9- Witaker tells Liz "Grab a file, feed the beast" all I could think of here is that Witaker is the beast and that Liz was unknowingly "feeding" her information!
10-Michaels apartment door was different again! It's back to a brown wood looking door with no 4 square symbol. Argh!! Are they trying to drive us crazy with this??
11- Courtney asks Michael "How do you feel about PIERCEings?" Kind of an odd out of place question don't you think? OK all you sluethers what does she really mean by this?
12-Maria tells courtney table FOUR (yes there's that number again) is waiting.
13-Tess tells Max "you lived a life COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM THIS ONE."- yes Tess that's the point- he doesn't love you in this lifetime he loves Liz!
14-When they come out of the UFO Center I noticed it says Shelter on the building. I've never noticed this before. Also inside the UFO Center are the signs that say Refuge and Fall Out Shelter. Could they be hinting that the UFO Center is a place of safety for our podians?
I just realized I had 14 points to make LOL!
Oh, I wonder how the guy that plays Brody would feel if he knew some of us thought he had the hands of a woman??:eek"
Last night before watching Roswell I watched a show about Area 51 on the History Channel. They showed an ariel view of the pentagon and the interir of the pentagon is diveded into 5 triangular sections with one of these sections being divided in half again, making a total of six sections (I don't know what these divisions are -walkways maybe?)Anyway, all I could think of was the alien beeper thing and how it has 6 symbols on it even though it is really a 5 sectioned devise. Could it have been modeld after the pentagon. This goes against what I have always felt- that the connection was always to Atherton's dome, inparticular the matching skylight.
Oh, I almost forgot - I vote for Visionaries- we could abbreviate and be the V's as in the V constelation.
GraceKel -Where are you??
Starstruck
By dreamin_away 10-10-2000, 03:56 PM
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quote:Originally posted by redhawk:
ah... so much to talk about!
But before I start, I'm with ss in that I'm not sure we even need or want a label, but if we're getting one, I go with RBI.
[The line that has been sticking under my skin since last night, though, is "I'm coming for you, Liz." Okay, my first reaction is to *swoon*, but then the way it is phrased bothers me. Now, like LSS, the denial of Destiny and leadership bothers me a little, but it's more like I feel I've heard those words before. I've been feeling like my brain has been trying to recall something eversince last night, but I'm not sure what. I had the same thought as Jason'sAngel, about Max coming for Liz in this lifetime. To me, usually "I'm coming for you" in the movies and TV and books usually means one of two things. It usually either implies rescue. Is Max needing to rescue Liz from something? Or else (now don't throw arrows, I'm completely a dreamer here.) it is said by the "bad" guy, as in "I'm going to get you". Now I still believe that it was probably just there to make us swoon, but why does its phrasing recall both bad and good things from deep inside my brain. Hmm...
Okay, Courtney is an EA for sure... She didn't even wash her hands after flushing the toilet. Can we all say Ewww!
I know, I know, I think too much.
Agreed, I like RBI best!!!
That line confuses me! I liked the whole speech (afterall I'm a total dreamer ) but that line just didn't seem to fit...hmmm...it's really buggin me...
Where did Courtney learn her hygene!?
By Jasons Angel 10-10-2000, 04:20 PM
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Hi Everyone..just me delurking again!
Zero: Thank you for your nice comments about my idea behind the "I'm coming for you Liz" line. That was the first thing that came to my mind--must be the dreamgirl in me!
shaiwon72 & redhawk: So glad to hear that you guys were thinking the same thing too about what that line meant.
czech please: I also like what you said about foreshadowing and Max having to choose between Liz & Tess. As far as I'm concerned the choice is a simple one...LIZ!! (again..must be the dreamer in me!)
Melodius: Great observation about that story that Kyle told about Haddie Wexler's farm and the cows. I can't figure out what that picture is either but I like your thoughts!!
Just want to say that this is one of my favorite threads to lurk at!! All of you have such great thoughts and ideas and observations!!
Angela
aka Jason's
By shapeshifter 10-10-2000, 04:21 PM
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Rats! They're having a meeting here after hours, so I'll have to go home to my SloMo connection.
Anyway, RBI=Runs Batted In. I still don't like to be labeled or categorized, but Runs Batted In could refer to the number of theories that we come up with that come true.
more later
By dreamin_away 10-10-2000, 04:31 PM
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quote:Originally posted by shapeshifter:
Rats! They're having a meeting here after hours, so I'll have to go home to my SloMo connection.
Anyway, RBI=Runs Batted In. I still don't like to be labeled or categorized, but Runs Batted In could refer to the number of theories that we come up with that come true.
more later
Like the new meaning!
By czech please 10-10-2000, 05:48 PM
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pg 2???? bump this baby!
By RozRules 10-10-2000, 06:20 PM
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hehehehe. Moving on up^_^
I think the line 'I'm coming for you' was Max's way of saying that no matter what happens, he will always come for her in the end.
By 47born 10-10-2000, 06:22 PM
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Loved "Ask Not" and have been reading the questions asked here. I have some ideas of my own.
As for the "thing" Max sees in his flash, if you notice, it is right after the flash of himself in the WR. Maybe he had a flash of the "other alien held in captivity" for three years and how that alien was treated. Who knows, maybe Pierce actually described or showed Max pictures of what they did to the other alien. In Destiny Max stated "After what Pierce told me they did to the other alien, I'll die before I let that happen to any of you."
As for his comment to Liz at the end, maybe he was trying to tell her that she mattered more to him than his planet, only if it came to that decision. He could have meant that he was coming after her when the "alien war" was over. As T*** so gracefully pointed out there is still a murderer out there.
When Max enters the Crashdown to inform them of Nasedos death and Liz touches him, yes I agree that he had a flash about her. Notice when Mike and Is lead him out the back way he turned around and looked still stunned at her. Could his flash merely have been that Liz found out she too was an abducted human like Brody?
The question was asked about the FBI knowing about T***, I think by RedHawk. The answer is yes, in TLV before Mike and Max get into the fight where they discover the camera, they had argued about T*** and how Liz trusted Max. Could VW now be our new Nasedo who will take care of T** because of her interfering with Max and Liz being together?
Also one I want to ask about. Are there any specific things that happened during the time frame of 3 or 7 years ago? Maybe when GC took the hunters into custody or etc. I have the feeling this information will be significant.
Any ideas or comments?
By starE 10-10-2000, 06:28 PM
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Wonderful! I didn't sleep at all last night from being so excited that AN was SO MUCH BETTER and once I calmed down I started to worry about ratings.
Now I am so tired but all I can think about is that sickening picture!! What the ...
Back to Liz haha. I of course loved the - I'm coming to get you line. I prefer Jason's Angels interpretation. I want to hear more of what you think Whittaker is up to asking about Tess???
p.s. I vote for RBI
By shapeshifter 10-10-2000, 06:32 PM
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Starstruck, all your observations were right on, but just re:
quote:Originally posted by Starstruck:
Hi everyone
1- the pod chamber definitely looks different from season 1, even the spot where they place Harding to try to heal him is different.
I was thinking, Wow, looks like they remodled and redecorated the Pod Room after an Architectural Digest picture with a little help from Martha Stuart and perhaps someone from Mother Earth News.
By Zero 10-10-2000, 06:37 PM
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Redhawk - Thanks for the clue to getting back my smile! I'll look forward to seeing the symbols.
Cow head - ummm! Still a Yuck! Can hardly - I think - wait to find out what that flash is about!
Now the reason for my post. I was Grace Kel-ing the beeper when it went off in AN, and at one point the blinking pentagon forms a star in the same shape as the scar on Harding/Nasedo's chest. Could he have been branded by a Skin with one of those beepers? I wish I had time to rewatch it, but I'm off tomorrow for 5 days. I guess I'm a bit obsessed!
Also, the symbols on the beeper look an awful lot like the symbols in the book, which leads to the thought that they have a shared language - which leads me to believe even more that the war on the home planet was a civil war!
NOW for the think outside the box comment - WHAT IF the beepers actual belonged to GOOD aliens that have been here for years waiting for their leader (Max) to come of age to contact them - through the communicators, but also alerting the Bad aliens on Earth (the Skins, and maybe others). IF the beepers belonged to the GOOD aliens than that would explain why it did not harm Max. Though it still implies that something is up with Michael since it went off and hurt him. This would play into those theories some of you have come up with that M & Tess might be of Skin descent???? Okay - just a thought.
So, I'm still wondering if anyone has any thoughts on my "humans are actually descendants of aliens that inhabited Earth long ago" theory - thus, tying Liz to Max that way.
Cheers!
Zero (VOTE - RBI or Visionary?)
BTW - I'm not big on labels either, but some seemed to think it would be fun, so this is for them! Trying to keep people happy!
By dreamin_away 10-10-2000, 06:43 PM
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I didn't notice that they remodled the pod chamber! Figures, I never notice anything. Instead I depend on you smart people out there to tell me about it! Then(even if you don't want to) you get to here my opinion about it!
RBI gets my vote.
By HyperKitN 10-10-2000, 06:51 PM
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Wow!You guys get busy, good I am glad we gotta keep it alive.
I just wanted to say I kinda liked the scenes between Kyle and Tess. Hopefully they will hook up and leave Max and LIz alone.
Also i noticed the healing thing from Tess and how Isabel was checking out Michael after that pulse hit him. so I guess it isn't a male power.
Did you guys notice in the promo it looked like Isabel had a vision of Tess in an accident. So does this mean her power is getting better also.
I think that Maybe Tess didn't tell the podster about the Memory things because the only one who was really talking to her this summer was Michael. And she probably hasn't got to that lesson yet, since she did tell Max she would teach him. I know I seem to be defending her a little, but I didn't see anything to devious in that and I like her w/Kyle.
I also think that the pulse thing hit Michael, not because he is bad, because I think that pentagon thing is from the evil aliens anyway. I think it hit him because it was activated by Brody's touch. I don't think he held it when Max was around.
SS-I know you don't want to be labeled, but we are getting so popular now we are going to be labeled something. But I am glad you are not completely out to the game
I am going to re-watch Ask Not right now, so I will have more info later. I hope.
Thanx guys for responding about the Nasedo putting his hand to Max's chest. I still think he did something to him.
I also can't believe that M/I didn't get mad at Max for using his NEW power against them.
By dreamin_away 10-10-2000, 06:56 PM
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I wonder what kind of new power it is? It freezes people, but can it do other stuff?
By Dreamdancer 10-10-2000, 06:57 PM
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Whoever said the things about the eyes I agree it proably just concidence but all the first podsters have brown eyes.
I noticed that freaky alien image too it looked like a bloody peely skin thingy?
What do you guys think that part about the pentagon thing attacking Micheal and not Max. Do you think maybe Max has this mechanisum inside him that leaves him undetected from whatever weapon because he is king or that Micheal is a branch of alien that the pentagon thing recognizes as an enemy . Or that if the civil war theory is correct that in their land this weapon was to recognize Micheals people and not Max's?
Also, follow your heart is'nt that what all the great leaders do? -Maria to Max _"Honey Bear this must be Max..., Can you promise me something follow your heart wherever it may take you. Trust its a worthy one. GC to Liz in leaving normal. I don't know if this was already mentioned or if I'm biting off someones idea I don't mean too I just remember these parts and thinking that something big is about to happen to Max and Liz.
Also, Max talking to Maria I don't know how to handle these situations what am I suppose to do? How did he know... I don't have the experience yet ...
now going on the second in command duty dosen't it seem like Liz is? I mean she has handled everything given him many a time the notion of what is right anf fair. In the Pilot with Valenti. In monsters with how Iz should respnd to Maria. In the eps with his mother and she telling him that he is controlling and he went to go talk to his mother afterwords and everything was fine. In S&B and even in Ask Not coming up with away to get VW off the Peircedo trail. Is Liz his second?Sorry, for the long reply just these are the things that struck me the most.
By shapeshifter 10-10-2000, 07:04 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Zero:
So, I'm still wondering if anyone has any thoughts on my "humans are actually descendants of aliens that inhabited Earth long ago" theory - thus, tying Liz to Max that way.
I like it! It would also give greater significance to the "I'm coming for you" line--Far away and long ago he knew his real destiny, but it was not possible, so he accepted Tess. But this time around he will be united with his soulmate. Kind of sappy when I write it, but picture JB and Shiri and it works.
By dreamin_away 10-10-2000, 07:08 PM
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quote:Originally posted by shapeshifter:
I like it! It would also give greater significance to the "I'm coming for you" line--Far away and long ago he knew his real destiny, but it was not possible, so he accepted Tess. But this time around he will be united with his soulmate. Kind of sappy when I write it, but picture JB and Shiri and it works.
Definetly a possibility!
By ROStaFEHRian 10-10-2000, 07:44 PM
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quote:Originally posted by LSS:
...what does Max do but proclaim that he doesn't care about all of his responsibilities as leader???? That all he cares about is Liz? Damn everything else?
... I guess what I didn't factor in was the impact that the JFK material would have on me. I want a noble Max with Liz by his side facing the future...but not at the expense of my respect for him.
..I know in the end that the private is where the heart is....but did any of you feel uneasy when Max veared toward abdication of his duties?..but did any of you feel uneasy when Max veared toward abdication of his duties? LSS
Hi LSS, everyone
I proposed exactly this scenario way back when, if you recall. Within the larger mythic grail context, which still applies, I suggested that the journey, if Max chose to follow the quest (and he does have the choice) should lead to personal transformation (spiritual attainment), unselfish love, and compassion. Compassion includes the love of self, attention to matters of the heart, and the love of humanity (humanity = ALL the beings that may be possible in the Roswell universe, if this is a metaphor for diversity , tolerance and respect).
If Max is progressing along the path to self transformation, the path to balancing his relationship with the world, 'the universe', and others, then he will have attained an always evolving vision, a sense of self and others, and a sense of compassion that will inform his choices and decisions. In this context his choices (ie, the choices presented to him) also evolve.
No one guaranteed that the choices would get any easier (the true leader recognizes this). Part of the transformation is finding the balance (from the heart, compassion, and knowledge). The true leader also understands that evil will not be totally vanquished
The grail quest does not assure that evil will be conquered or that the hero/heroine will not falter, will not mistakes, will not have to 'work' a little harder. What it means is that the transformed individual will come into the RIGHT RELATIONSHIP with EVIL**, with the universe, with fellow beings, with his/her own soul (warts and all).
My thoughts then were this: what if Max, because of his transformation and inner morality, CHOSES a path that both he and Liz know that one or the other cannot follow (ie, assume, for instance, there actually is a planet still waiting and there is a time-travel, etc). And someone may sacrifice his/her life (the symbolic death/resurrection implied by separation in time and space). Or someone may really die (death/resurrection, ie the stones). It is possible that they may only have to be separated for a time.
Max may choose a duty (that someone else labeled 'destiny') because it is consistent with his sense of what is right. But, afterward, aftervthe first grail task is achieved (ie, the restoration of the land, health/well-being of the people or the king, the balance, etc) Max may 'step down' and transfer his power to Michael in order to embark on the second, and most important personal quest: the matters/mysteries of the heart.
Michael IS different somehow, I had thought, therefore he, and possibly even Isabel, were most likely to go 'home', if there is such a place.
My concluding question was: would we like - would we RESPECT- Max if he did not do what he knew to be right because of selfish reasons? (I'm using 'right' only relative to Max's vision). Probably not. And he would not much like himself either. And that would poison any future with Liz or anyone else.
My concern at the time (post SH, I think) was that Max had barely left the RELATIVE safety of his parents' home or from behind the tree where he had been hiding. Living forever together with Liz was nice and romantic, but in my mind, it felt as it neither had really faced the fire, had their love tested, had faced their demons and fears. That 'another person' was going to come into the picture was highly predictable and necessary, or Roswell could have ended after SH.
It is about coming into the right relationship with POWER and KNOWLEDGE. It is about the 'middle path ' (ie, meaning our earthbound path or journey vs. the non-corporeal or the unenlightened path) towards the attainment of balance, harmony, spirituality. It is not about superiority, or super power.
Now I will propose another turn in the quest. It is a measure of Max that he has truly come a long way to have gained some degree of the maturity that is required to overcome the impulse to lash out for protection. The scene of the 3 going to kill 1 (BTW, based on suspicion and fear and no evidence) was metaphoric for that ongoing cycle of violence called GANG-BANGING, based on fears and antagonisms that have gone on so long that the original injury has been lost, and people strike out based on such beliefs, as Isabel stated: us or them. (Recall the images of the guns going off). The posture is: they are not us (and they entered out turf), then they are enemy, and if innocents get hurt, that's the way it is.
I knew what was coming as far as Max 'integrating' 'thinking', and 'seeing beyond' and around his/their base fears. We can't forget that the flashes going through his mind could have done the opposite: fueled rage and violence from a place he has not yet come to terms with.
What is yet to come, and maybe even more frightening than his words to Liz (or, at the least predictable at this point) is what happens as Max' powers increase?. When he can, even in service to altruism, make people do what he wants? When he can put up his hand and stop not only 2 friends, but governments? Armies? Max still has a ways to go on his path: sometimes the journey will of necessity be alone, but , sometimes it can be taken with others. We want him to continue the journey because the price of have super powers can be a path interrupted.
Perhaps the beauty of his relationship with Liz is that she will the ultimate teacher (and perhaps lover, for a time) for an ultimate ruler (of the best kind). And Nasedo may have imparted some wisdom for viewers. To paraphrase: what you may want to happen may not be the right thing to happen
Perhaps the soul that was Max in the previous life had not attained the right relationship with evil: neither the evil within nor the evil without. And in one mindless moment, he/it/they stared into the lifeless eyes of an INNOCENT victim of mindless hate.
Rosta
(The Grail made me do it! )
**(Ref: "The Speech of the Grail", L. Sussman)
By Dreamdancer 10-10-2000, 08:02 PM
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You said it again Rosta.
By shaiwon72 10-10-2000, 08:16 PM
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do you think that before the ship had crash in '47 that maybe some of the aliens were conducting their own experiements ... ex. abductions and stuff? maybe they had studied brains from cows or something and compared them to the human brain. so maybe max's flash was something that he had seen as a kid or seen from a past life or through the eyes of another alien's eyes? who knows.
By Roswellrox 10-10-2000, 08:43 PM
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Well, that's it right there! MAN! After reading what Rosta has to say, I feel pretty dumb! lol I applaud your indepth character sketch! I wanna be just like you when I grow up!
HyperK: Thank you for agreeing with me about Brody... I had posted before that I thought that the beeper went off because Brody was holding it, but nobody seemed to catch that.
Quoting what I posted before:
2. Something occurred to me as I was watching the scene with Brody (was that his name) the new UFO guy... the beeper was all quiet when it was sitting on the table, but it turned on when Brody held it in his hand. Now, if it's true that Brody had been abucted (had an alien encounter) then maybe he was changed in some way so that he was more aware of things (his brain was more evolved). This would give merit to the theory of Liz's flashes and conection to them all occuring because of her alien encounter (Max's healing her).
End Quote
Anywayz, so what that means is that I think that the beeper would have gone off on MAx too if Brosy had been holding the thing. I dont' think this has anything to do with Michael being an changed EA.
Max's line "I'm coming for you" kinda creeped me out too. You'd think he would have said, "I want you" or "I need you." But "I'm coming for you." That's just odd.
Oh and the door to Michael's apartment didn't change there are two of them. In S&B when Michael is walking from his bed to the "front door" you can see the other room where they were before with the "four square door." I'll have to go back and check, but did the 4 square door open up to the outside too, or did it open to a hallway?
About the whole Michael and Max thing. I don't think that Michael is an EA or even a recovering one. It seems to me that in our character analysis of him, we can't leave out the fact that he is human too. I mean... the theories about him being an EA in a previous life are interesting, but none of the podsters except Tess apearantly remember anything about their former lives. Why would the personalities of their former selves have to be the same? I am much more inclined to think of Michael in a more human way. He has had a pretty crappy life as a human, and he wants to do anything he can to find a purpose, something that will make him significant. Up until now, he's always felt like an outsider, even with Max and Iz. I think he's more gung ho about their "destiny" for that reason.
Okay... stepping off the soap box, and returning to real life... boy real life isn't as fun as Roswell life!
Roswellrox
P.S. So are we RBI's or what?
By Panola 10-10-2000, 10:19 PM
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Hey all! I looked up Kennedy's speech. This speech was his Inaugural Address which occured before the Cuban Missile Crisis. He too was a 1st time leader (president). (Max has had no experience or memory of being a leader) The "ask what you can do for your country" is followed by ...."My fellow citizens of the world...ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the Freedom of Man." I think that if you tie in this phrase to all Max, Liz, Maria, Michael, Isabel, Alex, Kyle, Tess and Valenti then I can see that ALL of them have a higher purpose in the scheme of things. This might not be about the pod squad saving one planet. I also agree with Step (I hope that you said this). When they attempted to heal Nasedo the podsters excluded the humans. The scene separated them. Either Nasedo was too damaged as Max said or Liz wasn't present. The absence of Liz struck me immediately. The pentagon item I felt was a possible weapon. Remember when Max started to touch it the 1st time, Brody said "don't touch it." Weapons or whatever are usually activated by some sort of touch. Lastly I vote for RBI. Might be too late to vote but I couldn't post sooner. Panola PSSS Did you notice in the opening scene with the song that a shadowed figure is added or did I just miss it before? Gave me the shivers at any rate.
By czech please 10-10-2000, 10:50 PM
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quote:Originally posted by 47born:
As for the "thing" Max sees in his flash, if you notice, it is right after the flash of himself in the WR. Maybe he had a flash of the "other alien held in captivity" for three years and how that alien was treated. Who knows, maybe Pierce actually described or showed Max pictures of what they did to the other alien. In Destiny Max stated "After what Pierce told me they did to the other alien, I'll die before I let that happen to any of you."
good catch 47! i think you might be on to something here. i for one *really* want to the story behind the crash, so i'm dying for "summer of '47" (ep. 4). damn it! mondays just don't come fast enough!
**************
"pay more attention, isabel.
there are signs all around you."
By Zero 10-10-2000, 11:03 PM
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quote:Originally posted by shapeshifter:
I like it! It would also give greater significance to the "I'm coming for you" line--Far away and long ago he knew his real destiny, but it was not possible, so he accepted Tess. But this time around he will be united with his soulmate. Kind of sappy when I write it, but picture JB and Shiri and it works.
SS - Couldn't have said it better myself!!
Zero (This is the first time I've done a "quote" - can you believe it!! )
By gij 10-10-2000, 11:17 PM
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um, i got throw off the computer and banned for several weeks after my last post so i never got to hear any feedback on my theory. i think it was on #5. and i can't figure out how to get into the previous threads, so can someone either explain it to me or quote my post here somewhere? i have more info that fits in with that theory and i am not writing it out again.
-gij
"where's Liz?"
By Zero 10-10-2000, 11:20 PM
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ROStaFEHRian - WOW! What can I say - wonderful analysis!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ROStaFEHRian:
Perhaps the beauty of his relationship with Liz is that she will the ultimate teacher (and perhaps lover, for a time) for an ultimate ruler (of the best kind). And Nasedo may have imparted some wisdom for viewers. To paraphrase: what you may want to happen may not be the right thing to happen
Perhaps the soul that was Max in the previous life had not attained the right relationship with evil: neither the evil within nor the evil without. And in one mindless moment, he/it/they stared into the lifeless eyes of an INNOCENT victim of mindless hate. "
I truly believe that Liz somehow realizes Max's importance and that is why she is staying away - but that ultimately, they will find that they are meant to be
together - but first they must find their own paths.
Zero
By Zero 10-10-2000, 11:28 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Roswellrox:
[
Max's line "I'm coming for you" kinda creeped me out too. You'd think he would have said, "I want you" or "I need you." But "I'm coming for you." That's just odd.
...
P.S. So are we RBI's or what?[/B]
Boy - I'm having fun with this quoting stuff - plus, I'm getting five days of being away in tonight!
Here's another take on what Max said - What if Max realizes that he has a duty to fullfil - like the JFK analogy - BUT that regardless, that someday, someway, somehow he will come back for her, no matter what!
PLUS - It looks like RBI (which is fitting since I live in Mariner town - Seattle - you have to be into baseball to understand that one) is the winner! SO - Welcome fellow RBIs!!
Zero
By Zero 10-10-2000, 11:41 PM
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Final post of the night (promise) - I'm off tomorrow for 5 days (going to the Bay Area and the Cal/UCLA game - Go Bears!). Anyway - based on the speed of this thread, it MAY fill up by the time I get back, so SHAPESHIFTER!!! Please feel free to start a new one if we reach page 10. Copy the summary, and if you can add some of the great thoughts that have been discussed lately. I have updated the timeline to include the date of the communication/beeper alert. So - it is somewhat set to go. I hope to get access to a computer, but may not be able to, so everyone have a GREAT END OF THE WEEK AND WEEKEND, and I will be back Monday!!!
Zero
By Elmindreda 10-11-2000, 01:03 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Zero:
I go back to the question - I think Mel hits on it - Why did the Pod Squad get sent to Earth in Human form using human DNA? They are completely Human according to Harding/Nasedo - was the plan to take the alien essence out of the human corpse and reimplant it in an alien being later on?? They MUST have realized that establishing them as humans would play into their choices and ultimate destiny. Here's that Nature vs. Nurture argument again! >>
Zero---I've been wondering about this a lot lately, especially with Tess's speeches about being so alone, and wanting to go "home." Well, sorry, but if they have completely human bodies as Nasedo says, and if they were pod embryos at the time of the crash and hatched out on Earth 42 years later, isn't *Earth* their home? If I have in vitro fertilization performed in Seattle, then move to Baltimore and have the baby there, isn't Baltimore the baby's home, and not Seattle? I know that's a very simplistic analogy, and doesn't take into account an alien essence, but I'm just talking geography and physical characteristics here.
I think that if they go back to their "home" planet looking like they do now, they might not be very well accepted by the inhabitants there. They are NOT shapeshifters, after all. So unless the rest of their former planet's inhabitants are all shapeshifters who are willing to take on human form for the rest of their lives, won't our pod squadders feel even more out of place there than they ever have on Earth? I think it would be awfully disconcerting to be the only four humans on a world of little gray men. Does Tess even consider this? Do any of them?
Sorry---this probably ought to be on the sci-fi thread! But your post really brought this to the forefront for me.
By Panola 10-11-2000, 06:01 AM
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Elmindreda...I agree with you that the podsters may feel out of place on the original planet. I think that they have a purpose on earth which they don't know yet. Kennedy's speech talks about peace and "together let us explore the stars"
I still like the Evid's analogy on One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest. Four Showing and One not.
Panola
By Panola 10-11-2000, 07:17 AM
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Hey all!
Did anyone else get the impression from Liz that the biggest reason that she left was T*** and not being able to stand the mere sight of Max & T*** together. The excuse of Destiny was an ego saving device. The look on her face when she saw them walking together had all the pathos of Shakespearian drama.
Panola
By Roswellrox 10-11-2000, 07:53 AM
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I totally agree with the idea that the podsters would not fit in on their own planet. I've thought of that in passing before, but didn't really take it into consideration until now. The question was posed earlier that maybe the reason the podsters were put into human form was to save more than one planet...but what if the only planet they are saving is Earth? What if their people are ALL exiled and living on Earth right now? What if they are supposed to defeat those trying to come to Earth to wipe out thier kind not go somewhere else to do it? That would make Earth their home! Wouldn't it be cool if they met up with some other EA fighters that were inter racially married? (I mean human/alien marriage.) Anywayz, that's all for now...
Roswellrox
YAY! We are RBI's... just a thought but does that make us all agents? Agent Zero, Agent Palamino, Agent GraceKel, etc... I think I just want to be Agent Rox or Roxy...
Okay.. I'm done now.
By StephStephSteph 10-11-2000, 08:26 AM
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Two things:
1) What does RBI stand for? I need to know these things before I vote
2) What WAS the deal with the guy in the storage closet with the blow torch? How bizarre is that.. and why didn't anyone question it?
I have more thoughts, but you guys are so much more eloquent at it than I am. I'll just wait
By Dreamdancer 10-11-2000, 08:52 AM
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I feel so left out
By Syndee 10-11-2000, 09:25 AM
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LSS,
Max's statement that he didn't care about his planet or his destiny also hit a raw nerve with me until I gave it some thought.
Earlier in the episode Max is struggling with his leadership role and we assume that he has embraced it. We saw it last week when he gave Nasedo an order that no one was killing anyone and again when he tells Michael that they weren't voting on whether or not to break into the UFO center for the alien weapon.
I feel that Max has reluctantly taken on the role of leader and will protect his loved ones here on earth because they expect him to, but I don't feel that he feels a connection to his home planet that would produce any patriotic feelings to fight for it. He's only truly known about his so-called destiny and leader status for 3 months.
Do I still respect him as a leader? Yes.
I would be very curious to hear his declaration to Liz if Earth was threatened, being that he considers Earth his home and embraces his human side as opposed to his alienness..
By StephStephSteph 10-11-2000, 10:53 AM
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quote:Originally posted by Syndee:
I would be very curious to hear his declaration to Liz if Earth was threatened, being that he considers Earth his home and embraces his human side as opposed to his alienness..
MAYBE Max's statement was a sort of preminition on events to come. In a place where Liz WILL be threated (and earth) by this Alien War and where Max "will be coming for you, Liz"!? Hmm.. I don't know.. just a thought
By nermal 10-11-2000, 11:43 AM
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Max's statement about not caring about his homeworld kind of bothered me, too.
But why should he care? He doesn't remember.
I'd bet the real test of Max's love for Liz and the proof of his character will be when and if he regains the memories of his previous life and learns to reconcile them with his life so far on Earth.
Isn't that Max's journey? Alien vs human?
Liz's part in his journey might just be the salvation of the human race.
By Melodious1 10-11-2000, 01:37 PM
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BUMPING
By shapeshifter 10-11-2000, 02:08 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Zero:
Here's another take on what Max said - What if Max realizes that he has a duty to fullfil - like the JFK analogy - BUT that regardless, that someday, someway, somehow he will come back for her, no matter what!
Ah-ha! That makes more sense.
I recall JB also delivering his first "He's a shapeshifter!" line awkwardly, but we have all gotten quite used to it.
quote:Originally posted by Zero:
Anyway - based on the speed of this thread, it MAY fill up by the time I get back, so SHAPESHIFTER!!! Please feel free to start a new one if we reach page 10. Copy the summary, and if you can add some of the great thoughts that have been discussed lately. I have updated the timeline to include the date of the communication/beeper alert. So - it is somewhat set to go. I hope to get access to a computer, but may not be able to
Zero
Aye Aye, Captain.
But I'm not sure what Agent Pierce would think of an Agent Shapeshifter.
By Roswellrox 10-11-2000, 02:23 PM
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RBI- Roswell Bureau of Investigation
Hey, I just had a thought... About the whole T***/Kyle idea... What would happen if they kissed? Would Kyle have a flash? Technically, Kyle and Liz have now had the same thing happen to them. They were both shot and healed by Max (although Max did not put his hand behind Kyle's neck when he did it). If Kyle were to get flashes too, then that would be evidence to prove the Liz's brain was altered by the healing theory. What do you all think? I'm curious.
Oh, and Agent Shapeshifter... Pierce isn't in our special unit, so you are very welcome! lol
Agent Roxy
By shapeshifter 10-11-2000, 02:41 PM
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This was on the last page, so I just thought I'd drag it over. I was not familiar with the "what together we can do for the Freedom of Man" part.
quote:Originally posted by Panola:
... I looked up Kennedy's speech. This speech was his Inaugural Address which occured before the Cuban Missile Crisis....The "ask what you can do for your country" is followed by ...."My fellow citizens of the world...ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the Freedom of Man." ...
>From http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres56.html , here's from the quote to the end of the speech:
quote:
And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you-ask what you can do for your country.
My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.
Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own.
Hmmm, Tess's hair is similar to Marylin Monroe's. Let's hope that chapter is done.
P.S.
But Agent Rox, Pierce is so cool when he's Piercedo.
By Starstruck 10-11-2000, 03:46 PM
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HI everyone
Hyperkitten had questioned if Nasedo had DONE anything to Max when he put his hand on Max's chest-- Well. I was thinking, what if Nasedo transfered HIS memories to Max in a last ditch effort to aid him. If this happened perhaps that disgusting head was one of Nasedo's memories. Still don't know WHAT it is though.
ROStaFEHRian- Wow! Very nice post!! You said " the posture is they are not us (and they entered our turf) then they are the enemy, and if innocents get hurt thats the way it is." I'm so glad Max rose to the occasion. If he hadn't he'd be no better than Pierce who I believe you described perfectly in that quote!
Roswellrox- The door in Michaels appartment IS different. Yes you can see another door (which looks to have 6 pannels, not 4) but the door behind Max in the kitchen/livingroom area behind Max is the same door that in S&B had the 4 square symbol. Check it out again, you'll see what I mean.
Elmindreda- I have thought about what you said about the podsters not fittong in on planet Twilo. Max tells his mom "I can't go home because I don't know where home is." How true, he's a man without a country, either place they'll never fit in.
Steph-What was the deal with the blowtorch guy? If he was a skin trying to blend in I think he failed at his misson.
Since they drew a parallell between Max and Kennedy I hope that doesn't mean Max will eventually be assasinated.
Can't help but notice that Brody's hairstyle is much like Michaels last season.
Starstruck
By ROStaFEHRian 10-11-2000, 05:12 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Dreamdancer:
I feel so left out
We cannot have this. You are already a part of this family of posters, DREAMDANCER, on this and any other thread.
Welcome, DREAMDANCER!
Keep posting. You, and your thoughts are welcome and appreciated. What you write ie read, even if not always responded to. I can seldom post and lurk a lot and a lot of posts I want to respond to I can't. And sometimes I can only pick on place to post each week (because it takes me a week to get it together sometimes). And sometimes I think 99% of what I post evaporates into the electron ether, unloved, unwanted . And that's ok. I enjoyed it (ie, looing up stuff, posting, etc), I do it for me, and I like to think someone enjoyed reading it.
Keep on posting. Every idea shared may lead us all to a deeper appreciation and understanding of this show that we love. Your contributions are as valuable as anyone else's. Don't sell yourself short.
Max told me (yeah, that Max ) to tell you to be a joiner!!
Thank you for your kind words about my post(s). And I had responded to your post yesterday on the SIGNS&SYMBOLS thread. Did you get back there yet? You are MOST welcome there!
Belated welcome to the Crashdown
ROSta
PS- Is your posting name from a scifi novel?
By GraceKel 10-11-2000, 05:13 PM
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Hi everyone, I haven't been able to read everyone's post yet so I cannot comment on that yet but I have been thinking about if there is a correlation between the first initial of the names?
Stephens, Samuels, Selecman,Summers, Sorenson,Shellow, all the S names.
and then we have
Hubble, Hardy, Harding, Hansen
and then we have
Whitaker, Whitman, Wexler's Farm
Corn, Coleman
Delucca, Delaney, Delbianco
Parker, Pierce, Pulhman Ranch
Well I can't think of any more at the moment but I wonder if there is a connection between the names?
Starstruck you noticed all that stuff about Kyle didn't you? LOL!!! Me too!!!
I will have to go back and read everyone's comments b4 I comment further, bye for now.
By czech please 10-11-2000, 05:33 PM
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quote:Originally posted by 47born:
Also one I want to ask about. Are there any specific things that happened during the time frame of 3 or 7 years ago? Maybe when GC took the hunters into custody or etc. I have the feeling this information will be significant.
Any ideas or comments?
47--i don't know if you've already worked this into your theory, but brody was abducted 7 years ago and bought the alien artifact 3 years ago. from your post, i think we *might* be thinking along the same lines. abduction hasn't really been touched on before, and i don't think the writer's are done with the idea yet.
i just watched the surprise promo again and noticed *gasp!* max and isabel's mom was at the party. i haven't seen a parent in so long, i forgot they were there ;-}
By dreamin_away 10-11-2000, 05:54 PM
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GraceKel-Interesting, I wonder why a lot of the names begin with the same letters. ...Can't think of one, but I bet that if it means something it probably shows which people are on the same side, or somethin like that.
Dreamdancer-You are welcome here, feel free to post!!!
By Evid 10-11-2000, 06:16 PM
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quote:Originally posted by czech please:
47--i don't know if you've already worked this into your theory, but brody was abducted 7 years ago and bought the alien artifact 3 years ago. from your post, i think we *might* be thinking along the same lines. abduction hasn't really been touched on before, and i don't think the writer's are done with the idea yet.
czech: I was just wondering what else happened 7 years ago, and all the sudden it just hit me Maria's Dad left her and her Mom 7 years ago. Is her Dad some how involved. Now Maria is getting tossed in the mix. My head is spinning.
Evid
By 47born 10-11-2000, 07:19 PM
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czech please: The idea that this happened to Brody is why I was asking about the 3 years and 7 years. I couldn't remember anything specific that happened. I think you understand where I'm coming from.
Did Brody say he was in Maryland when he was abducted and left two days later in West Virginia? Wasn't Nasedo in that area at one time also?
How do you all feel about the theory that Isabelle could be the "second in command"? She seems to be getting more bold in her actions these days. She is the one who says they should kill Brody. It makes me wonder more if she isn't the second and like Michael says, he is the "soldier".
This brings me to another idea in reference to the momogram. If the momogram was real, could T*** have interjected just a phrase or inuendo to make it appear that she was the bride? I know there have been several debates on the subject as to if the momogram was real or not.I still do not believe she is the bride and I still do not trust her.
By dreamin_away 10-11-2000, 07:29 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Evid:
czech: I was just wondering what else happened 7 years ago, and all the sudden it just hit me Maria's Dad left her and her Mom 7 years ago. Is her Dad some how involved. Now Maria is getting tossed in the mix. My head is spinning.
Evid
Oh, gosh, Maria's dad too!!!Head also spinning!!!
By GraceKel 10-11-2000, 07:44 PM
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47Born I think that BRODY DAVIS(BLIND DATE-he he you see how they do this?) said he was on the Massachusetts Turnpike(I know cuz thats where I am from) and then 2 days later he was in WEST VIRGINIA---I immediately thought about the confusion of Liz's healing, the 17th, 18th, or the 19th remember? I am Liz Parker its Sept23, its Sept 24 and five days ago I died and everyone thought it was a blooper and I never did, I thought there was something YET to be revealed, and Larry came in and said what happened on the 17th of Sept. Three different dates remember? HEY NEMO where are you remember we were discussing this?
Have they told us what Courtney's last name is yet, and what about the history teachers, I think I am on to something with the first initial of the name.
47Born I am with you, NO WAY IS TESS THE BRIDE, I just don't BUY this. She may have thought she SHOULD have been the bride but I think she is planting her own fantasies not memories LOL!!! Oh I can't wait for those memory retrieval techniques-yeah right--Tessavisions ya mean. And does the girl have eyes in the back of her head or what?
Noticed she knew who it was creeping up on her twice---and don't anyone say she can feel Max or I will puke.
Sorry I am somewhat ranting tonight, I think I am suffering from Tess overload from that episode Monday night LOL!!!! It wouldn't surprise me to find out that she knocked Nasedo off LOL!!!
And that thing-it looked like a skinned COW to me, the mutilated cows from HW(HeatWave) Hattie Wexler's farm?
It looks like I was right about Kyle not being all friendly with Max, I figured he would still resent him for taking his girlfriend and his fathers attention away, if it IS STILL KYLE not sure about this.
By Panola 10-11-2000, 07:47 PM
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Hey!
Agent Shapeshifter (awesome title) did you ever check the red triangle lights behind Liz in SH as they prepare to leave her balcony to get the orbs?
I've read some futuristic, sci fi, romance novels. ( I confess. I'm a adict for those kind of books :cry There is one where the hero and heroine have to join their powers (forces) and eliminate the wicked nasties.... Dream on.
Panola
By Panola 10-11-2000, 07:55 PM
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I forgot to add. Did anyone notice Tess & Brody are both talking about Retrival Memory Techniques? Some coincidence, Panola
By shapeshifter 10-11-2000, 08:21 PM
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Dreamdancer:
I just went back and re-read your post on the stones. LizParkerFan said Liz had a stone, and you asked about that. Does anyone know? There were at least 5 stones in RD's cave. I remember Michael having 4 when he was hitchhiking. But I don't recall Liz having one that she kept. Anyone?
Also, Dreamdancer, your comment on the Civil War and the Pentagon Weapon perhaps reacting differently to Max & Michael because they might be of different factions: I was thinking virtually the same thing--that Max & Is have essences from one group (skin or shapeshifter), and Michael & Tess another. Or maybe Max & Tess have essences from the same faction (her line about them being the same). I know this gets very complicated in order to fit in with everything else, but it might not be impossible.
One last comment: did anyone think the way Nasedo deliver the line "the Skins" (in answer to Max's question of who was among them now) was very odd, almost like he was amused even as he died?
P.S.
Panola,
I have that ep recorded (of course! ) but of what are they symbolic? (I mean, how do you see it?)
By Evid 10-11-2000, 08:31 PM
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Hey RBI's,
GraceKel:Your back, So I noticed something that Brody said and I thought to myself I know Grace will like this one. I think your the only one that liked my Immaculate Heart theory.
Ok, I posted awhile back that I noticed Liz was wearing pants in MA that had the Immaculate Heart on them. This Heart of course is the heart of the Virgin Mary. In short the Heart means, a promise of salvation when many souls will be saved and there will be peace.
Brody says to Max"you tell people you saw the Virgin Mary and they put candles outside your bedroom." (I think he said bedroom or was it bathroom?) Now do you see the connection to Liz? Liz does love her candles all over her balcony and who could forget SH.
So twice she is connected to the Virgin Mary. Is Liz the Mother of all mankind and may someday, along with Max that is, give birth to the Savior of the world? How's that for Liz's Importance?
Evid
By czech please 10-11-2000, 08:51 PM
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47Born--here's another event for you: m/m/i have been out of the pod for 10 years, but the night the evans' found max&iz was the last time they would see michael for three years (according to max in "balance"). that means the "original" pod squad was reunited 7 years ago.
************
"pay more attention, isabel.
there are signs all around you."
By 47born 10-11-2000, 08:57 PM
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Shapeshifter: In ID, Isabelle had 5 stones. 3 laying on her bed and she had 2 in her hand.
Hey GraceKel: I heard what you heard in TLV. It was very hard to hear though.
By Melodious1 10-11-2000, 09:05 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Evid:
Is Liz the Mother of all mankind and may someday, along with Max that is, give birth to the Savior of the world? How's that for Liz's Importance?
Evid
Hey Evid, concerning the possible religious connotations of Ros / M&L. I've also pondered the "Max (God) + Liz (Virgin Mary) = Savior of the universe" idea, but, concerning the arrival of these (particular) enemy aliens, I've been pondering another religious metaphor.
Max as Adam and Liz as Eve. Earth is the Garden of Eden (ahem, loosely stating that considering Earth is far from Paradise). The "Evil" Skins represent the serpent. The Skins (serpent), possibly via Liz, try to lure Max (Adam) & Liz (Eve) astray from their path (a path towards 'salvation'... aka the 'salvation' of Earth / humanity / podsters / Twilo?). BUT, as opposed to Eve, perhaps it may all fall on Liz to overcome 'temptation' (misleading) and choose the *right* path... the path towards salvation (towards Max)? ...Despite the Skins efforts to possibly 'separate' them. Granted, as of S/B & Ask Not, we haven't seen any intention by the Skins to separate Max & Liz...
...Unless Tess is indeed a 'plant' of some kind by the Skins/EA?? Perhaps the EA replaced the original 'young bride' (an essence which somehow is in Liz now?) with Tess? Could Tess represent the forbidden fruit?? Hence, flip-flopping Max's (Adam's) and Liz's (Eve's) roles... Max being the tempted and Liz the one that needs to save him from 'straying off the righteous path'??
Don't succumb to temptation Max, that's an evil apple!!
Melodious
By Syndee 10-11-2000, 09:54 PM
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I don't know if anyone has mentioned it or not but the Orbs could not have gone off on May 14th(coincidently-Mothers Day.)
In "Four Square" when Max and Liz are in the Science Lab looking for the V formation, Max tells Liz to put in todays date May 27th.
The good news is that 5+2+7=14.
Syndee
By GraceKel 10-11-2000, 10:19 PM
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Hey 47Born you heard it too!!!! I knew I wasn't crazy cuz my daughters heard it too, but not too many people have caught this one.
Oh EVID and Melodius1 I LOVE BOTH OF THOSE and I still like the immaculate heart and its meaning after all why would Michael have said "GO FOR IT MAXWELL FOR THE GOOD OF ALL MANKIND" in SH. RIGHT?
Hey Shapeshifter I thought there was a little snicker there myself from Mr Harding/Nasedo.
Well I can see my idea about the all the S names just flopped so I will have to elaborate more LOL
Agent Stephens--lives on 6025 Murray Lane---just like Max(Starstruck I think that was the clue that he lived where Max lived).
Mr Selegman says to Liz in SH "you are an EXCELLENT student Ms Parker, I would hate to see ANYTHING come between you and the beauty of the universe" (which we all know means Max---and who is trying to come betw them the very next episode? Tess. I think this was a warning. Oh and he also contributed where they would test for that cadmiun X that Liz was talking about.
Mr Shellow--Doug Shellow( I know at first we all thought and some still do--which I have to admit I sway back and forth with this one) but Nemo convinced me that Doug Shellow mentioning "we'll be safe here, noone would find us here" (PROTECTING MAX's FUTURE DESTINY---LIZ "how much more NORMAL can you get? And he mentions the archaelogy dept and this brings to mind that Grandma Claudia was an archeologist herself was she not? And the actual date DOES bring Max and Liz back together in a way doesn't it?
Mr Sorenson-well he is still pretty new but Isabel seemed attracted to him instantly not unlike Max's to Liz, and we do see the word mate on the strap of his bag, cannot decipher the word above it----maybe this is Isabels human mate just like Liz is Max's human mate.
Agent Samuels--this is the FBI guy who Palomino is convinced screamed EVIL ALIEN but because that is so obvious I thought it was the opposite----and in WR eppy when Michael comes in to rescue Max, he says, "BEALS YOU PICKED ONE HELL OF A TIME TO SHOW UP!" (YES-just in time to save Max).
Agent Summers-well don't have much info on him only what Pierce says, "the man whose job I now have" But I don't recall Summers coming after the PODSTERS do you?
Are they one in the same person-shapeshifting into the other or are they just all on the same side M and L and the pds side? It seems they have been more supportive than not.
I also noticed
Blind Date--Brophy Davis
Sexual Healing-Sheila Hubble
Toy HOUSe--Tess Harding
Heat Wave--Hattie Wexler
I will post the H's later.
By Panola 10-11-2000, 11:00 PM
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Hi! Shapeshifter (this is one of my random thoughts) the lights formed a V pointing to the right. Could they be pointing towards the orbs location? Or could the lights be pointing to Liz? Could the lights be present for clue crazy Panolas'? Yikes!
Evid a different thought clicked in my head with your analogy to the Virgin Mary & Liz. The similarity to Liz is too too perfect. Could Brody or one of his coherts be spying on Liz & this comparison popped spontaneously out of his mouth without him realizing it?
When Brody was in the Sci Fi Center, could he have been holding the pentagon & attempting to discover its properties? He could have been experimenting & the thing sensed Michael. Brody didn't seem to realize that the thing knocked Michael out. Could the Momogram and communication waves initiate the activation, yet a human or alien needs to give it instructions for additional uses as a weapon or shield. Maybe one of the symbols represent Michael and Brody touched it? Maybe the skins are using Brody as cover for their covert actions? If the pod squad had killed Brody, the skins would not be harmed & the podsters set up for murder.....Check....& the next step.....Liz is unprotected.... Checkmate.....Probably farrrrrrr fetched.
The skins could also discount Liz (they think that she's human and discount her as extraneous to the situation). If she is the bride and she arrived in a different ship, she will be protected in a sense. The skins will say, "oh... that just another human."
It's late and my brain is clouding.
(I have a good excuse... It's either Roswell or Statistics that is causing this skewing of brain cells)
Panola
By jen2themax 10-11-2000, 11:49 PM
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Panola- Stats... I was never so glad to finish a class as I was that one!!! One more Pearson correlation and I was going to take a hammer to my calculator!
By RozRules 10-12-2000, 12:57 AM
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I've been wondering, why would the writers change the day that the mommogram was recieved? Was it just an oversight or intentional? It seems to much of a coincidence that they changed the date to
May(5) 14th to not have been intentional.
BTW: Exactly how many times has the number 14 shown up throughout the course of Roswell(if its even possible to count them all^_^)
~Agent Christina
Roswell Bureau of Investigation
hehe I like this RBI stuff.
By dreamin_away 10-12-2000, 03:37 AM
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quote:Originally posted by Panola:
I forgot to add. Did anyone notice Tess & Brody are both talking about Retrival Memory Techniques? Some coincidence, Panola
I think that's more than a coincidence. If Tess & Brody are related, well, I guess it wouldn't surprise me too much.
shanns
By LizParkerfan 10-12-2000, 06:36 AM
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Agent Victoria reporting in.
I almost forgot about our good friend Doug Shellow. I still think it was him at the end of Blind Date (the one who burned the picture). And where is our other frined Deputy Owen? Do you think that he might be Nascedo?
Sorry if I repeat myself, but I think that Harding was just a decoy/bodyguard for the real Nascedo (Tic Tac). And I know that this is a bad way to put this and it might not make sense, but do you think that Tess is Liz's bodyguard, and that maybe Tess is taking her job a little to seriously.
Well bye for now. Agent Victoria reporting out.
Just want to leave you guys with something to think about.
Sheila Hubble = Vanessa Whitaker
Remember is half
By StephStephSteph 10-12-2000, 07:07 AM
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quote:Originally posted by Roswellrox:
RBI- Roswell Bureau of Investigation
Hey, I just had a thought... About the whole T***/Kyle idea... What would happen if they kissed? Would Kyle have a flash? Technically, Kyle and Liz have now had the same thing happen to them. They were both shot and healed by Max (although Max did not put his hand behind Kyle's neck when he did it). If Kyle were to get flashes too, then that would be evidence to prove the Liz's brain was altered by the healing theory. What do you all think? I'm curious.
VERY interesting in that we really have no clue why Liz gets the "flashes" (and Maria did not)! I wish the writers would expand on these "flashes" a bit more - when they happen, why they happen and with WHOM they happen with. (Patience is a virtue )
quote:Originally posted by Starstruck:
Steph-What was the deal with the blowtorch guy? If he was a skin trying to blend in I think he failed at his misson.
I am SO curious about this and why no one (Max) thought this was odd. It reminded me of Blood Brothers with the FBI Agents going through the trash after the Pod Squad left the hospital. I'm hoping this will tie in SOMEWHERE down the road
quote:Since they drew a parallell between Max and Kennedy I hope that doesn't mean Max will eventually be assasinated.
No! Say it isn't so!!
quote:Can't help but notice that Brody's hairstyle is much like Michaels last season.
You're so right!
By StephStephSteph 10-12-2000, 07:13 AM
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quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
47Born I think that BRODY DAVIS(BLIND DATE-he he you see how they do this?) said he was on the Massachusetts Turnpike(I know cuz thats where I am from) and then 2 days later he was in WEST VIRGINIA---I immediately thought about the confusion of Liz's healing, the 17th, 18th, or the 19th remember? I am Liz Parker its Sept23, its Sept 24 and five days ago I died and everyone thought it was a blooper and I never did, I thought there was something YET to be revealed, and Larry came in and said what happened on the 17th of Sept. Three different dates remember? HEY NEMO where are you remember we were discussing this?
I NEVER noticed that! Maybe Liz was abducted and THAT'S the reason she has "the flashes" and maybe that's how she ties into this whole thing. One more reason to go back and watch each eppy ONE MORE TIME!
quote:Originally posted by shapeshifter:
One last comment: did anyone think the way Nasedo deliver the line "the Skins" (in answer to Max's question of who was among them now) was very odd, almost like he was amused even as he died?
I would just like to point out that Nacedo (dead or alive) creeps me out! There's something off about that guy!
By Dreamdancer 10-12-2000, 08:36 AM
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Meloudious, I so agree. Someone one on the board also mentioned that the podsters would feel left out because they look human maybe Liz and Max will be tho ones to start this new race. This also goes along with the Atlantis theory. Just as Atlantis was the evidence of aliens and the starting up of the new human race on our planet. Maybe Liz is the new eve she is the best choice because we just heard in Ask Not that Tess is not human she feverently admitted it herself. She is not open to humanity Like the others podsters are because she was not raised as such. Even going more in depth is if this is so maybe the destiny was for Tess to be seperated form Max. So, Max could find a human mate who would equal a third person on his home world and a third party which could "Balance" his people.What I mean is maybe to get peace you need another party to interceed. Or maybe Liz is the way for Max's planet to make an alliance with people on earth as farfetched as that is. Thanks shapshifter I'm sorry if I sounded like a baby its just know one ever replyed to my questions I felt kind of left out.;( I still am wondering about those stones though does anyone know.
By Dreamdancer 10-12-2000, 08:41 AM
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Thanks everyone for the welcome I realize you guys have so much to read and can't post to everyone I was just feeling kind of depressed I guess. I'll stop now so I won't take the focus off Liz wonderful mythology.
By Melodious1 10-12-2000, 09:24 AM
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quote:Originally posted by Roswellrox:
Hey, I just had a thought... About the whole T***/Kyle idea... What would happen if they kissed? Would Kyle have a flash? Technically, Kyle and Liz have now had the same thing happen to them. They were both shot and healed by Max (although Max did not put his hand behind Kyle's neck when he did it). If Kyle were to get flashes too, then that would be evidence to prove the Liz's brain was altered by the healing theory. What do you all think? I'm curious.
So, maybe it's not Liz who's the one destined to see the "evil within"... maybe it's Kyle! No matter how hard I try, just can't trust Tessie (but I seriously don't think it's simply because I'm such a biased Dreamgirl, although I'm sure that's part of it).
Something else I pondered (which probably belongs on the Sci Fi thread, but I'm mentioning it anyway) and if this has been brought up already, I apologize. A dying Harding tells Max, "They're among you now" referring to the Skins. Atherton's book is entitled "Among Us". Ok, I realize I'm probably grabbing at straws here, Atherton (like Pierce), as far as we know, was human and probably was simply referencing *aliens* (no faction in particular) regarding the title (hence possibly considering all aliens "evil" like Pierce; to be feared. Depending on how much -how little- he actually knew about Nas). I suppose I can't help but make the speculation... Nasedo knew Atherton; could Nas have previed Atherton to this conflict of Skins vs. Podians? Could Atherton's title have had more meaning then just *aliens* are "among us", but *evil aliens* are "among us"? Hence, Harding's clever choice of words? I also remember that symbol on Atherton's dome (a dome Michael had several visions of early Season 1) in 285 South. The symbol that looks strikingly like the symbols on these EA beeper things. Another possible comparison/symbol between Atherton and EAs? Granted, all this could very well be coincidental.
Melodious
By Dreamdancer 10-12-2000, 12:03 PM
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Gracekel I never really thought of the connection between names but that is extremely interesting.
By StephStephSteph 10-12-2000, 12:47 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Syndee:
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it or not but the Orbs could not have gone off on May 14th(coincidently-Mothers Day.)
In "Four Square" when Max and Liz are in the Science Lab looking for the V formation, Max tells Liz to put in todays date May 27th.
The good news is that 5+2+7=14.
Syndee
Really? A blooper? Or an intentional eye-raiser!?
By WR 10-12-2000, 01:47 PM
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I have been a long time lurker, mainly because I have had nothing new or different to add. However, I have something for some of you people with your amazing minds to consider. I don't know if anyone has already mentioned this, in this or any other threads, but if not, will go a long way to pleasing some of you dreamers.
This refers back to the "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest" reference. The Cuckoo does not make a nest. It lays a single egg in the nest of another bird. When the egg hatches, the young cuckoo proceeds to 'push' the other eggs, or hatched chicks, out of the nest, so that it may recieve the full attention of the "adopted" parents.
I always thought Tess was a "Cuckoo Chick"
Regards, WR.
By dreamin_away 10-12-2000, 01:52 PM
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quote:Originally posted by WR:
I have been a long time lurker, mainly because I have had nothing new or different to add. However, I have something for some of you people with your amazing minds to consider. I don't know if anyone has already mentioned this, in this or any other threads, but if not, will go a long way to pleasing some of you dreamers.
This refers back to the "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest" reference. The Cuckoo does not make a nest. It lays a single egg in the nest of another bird. When the egg hatches, the young cuckoo proceeds to 'push' the other eggs, or hatched chicks, out of the nest, so that it may recieve the full attention of the "adopted" parents.
I always thought Tess was a "Cuckoo Chick"
Regards, WR.
Please post more! I love the idea! She really could be a cuckoo chick!
By Evid 10-12-2000, 02:27 PM
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Hi all you RBI's,
I came across a Native American Mythology site today and found that these stories fits in with Roswell.
In this story, Coyote (Nasedo or Tic-Tac) falls in love with a beautiful woman (Shiela or GC). In order to marry her, he had to kill the giant, Gray Big Ye'i(?????). Afterwards, the woman attempts to kill Coyote four times, but each time he hides his vital organs so he could come back to life. The woman eventually marries him.(Now this really sounds like Nasedo)
Later we find that coyote is killed while hunting with the wife's brothers.(this sounds like the GC story) Coyote's wife turns into a bear and kills all but one of the brothers. The last brother kills her, and brings his brothers back to life. This story explains why bears are often considered the female counterparts of coyotes.(Liz's pet name is Honey Bear)
So what so you think?
Evid
By dreamin_away 10-12-2000, 02:33 PM
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Evid-Very interesting! Amazing comparison, definetly possible!
By Usagi 10-12-2000, 02:56 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Zero:
NOW for the think outside the box comment - WHAT IF the beepers actual belonged to GOOD aliens that have been here for years waiting for their leader (Max) to come of age to contact them - through the communicators, but also alerting the Bad aliens on Earth (the Skins, and maybe others). IF the beepers belonged to the GOOD aliens than that would explain why it did not harm Max. Though it still implies that something is up with Michael since it went off and hurt him. This would play into those theories some of you have come up with that M & Tess might be of Skin descent???? Okay - just a thought.
So, I'm still wondering if anyone has any thoughts on my "humans are actually descendants of aliens that inhabited Earth long ago" theory - thus, tying Liz to Max that way.
Hey Zero! I've got a few thoughts along these lines!
As far as the devices belonging to the GOOD Aliens first, I don't see it only because ALL the evil aliens seem to have them. However, at some point during season 1 Max talked about how when he and Is were found they could not speak, but that they communicated with their minds (or something like that). Perhaps these devices work on some level that is as yet undetected by humans - where thought and INTENT can be detected as a form of communication. They may activate automatically to defend the items owner by sensing negative intent - this could be very handy for a race that appears to spend some of it's time invisible and therefore much harder to detect one sneaking up on you! Michael was approaching to steal the item, and Max just wanted to talk to the man - that could be the key difference.
As far human descendents of an ancient alien race, I agree. I've already posted my thoughts here on the real life Native American oral history about their race originating on another planet, so I won't get into that again. BUT, it is interesting to note that a lot of the background music for the show contains NA flute and I always see some sign on Native American presence in every episode.
In Ask Not, when Max stops behind a corner in the school - sensing the 'skin' somehow - a poster on the wall of Graham Green was smiling warmly down on him.
Just my thoughts!
Usagi
By Evid 10-12-2000, 02:57 PM
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quote:Originally posted by WR:
I have been a long time lurker, mainly because I have had nothing new or different to add. However, I have something for some of you people with your amazing minds to consider. I don't know if anyone has already mentioned this, in this or any other threads, but if not, will go a long way to pleasing some of you dreamers.
This refers back to the "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest" reference. The Cuckoo does not make a nest. It lays a single egg in the nest of another bird. When the egg hatches, the young cuckoo proceeds to 'push' the other eggs, or hatched chicks, out of the nest, so that it may recieve the full attention of the "adopted" parents.
I always thought Tess was a "Cuckoo Chick"
Regards, WR.
WR: Why have you not posted before? What great info, now I can really see Tess doing this to Liz to get her way. Now come out in join us more often, you have great insite.
Evid
By dreamin_away 10-12-2000, 03:04 PM
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Usagi-I fell really stupid askin this but,
Who's Graham Green?I'm an idiot
By Elmindreda 10-12-2000, 03:08 PM
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Wow! So many great theories and so much to think about lately!
So, to add to the confusion, I'll post mine, too.
I keep thinking about Tess wanting to go "home," and I keep wondering how that would even be possible in a human body. But what if the aliens aren't from another planet? What if they are from a far distant future here on Earth? We know from Nasedo that M, M, and I have human bodies, and that their powers are 100% human, just highly evolved. Maybe this is why the alien/human DNA mix works so well---human DNA isn't all that different, just less evolved. This would also explain Liz's flashes. If the humans and aliens really aren't that different, then maybe Max healing Liz changed her somehow---allowing her to tap into her latent brain power.
What if the pod squad was sent to a specific time in Earth history---maybe to stop an evil race of aliens (the skins) from taking power? This is *total* speculation, but isn't it fun?
By Usagi 10-12-2000, 03:21 PM
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quote:Originally posted by dreamin_away:
Usagi-I fell really stupid askin this but,
Who's Graham Green?I'm an idiot
I always over explain the easy parts and under explain the more esoteric.. sorry! He's a Native American actor, best known for his role as the Holy Man in the movie Dances with Wolves. I've always been a huge fan of his and tend to forget that he's not yet a household name..
Usagi
By dreamin_away 10-12-2000, 03:24 PM
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Usagi-I fell really stupid askin this but,
Who's Graham Green?I'm an idiot
By GraceKel 10-12-2000, 04:14 PM
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STEPHSTEPHSTEPH I thought I was nuts but that was the first thing I thought May 14th we well past May 14th cuz of the May27, 2000 in FourSquare. Somethings UP with this---No I don't think its a blooper.
Evid-interesting about the NA mythology but can you run that one by me again cuz I didn't quite grasp it.---And Evid no comments of my S's hmmmmm?
Well how about the H's
Ms Hardy-she wants Max to scrape sample from his cheek in Pilot(well now that would be the last thing an alien who is in hiding would want to do) Also in HEATWAVE--she walks in to check on the forcing the slugs to mate ritual to see how it is going? And Harding/Nasedo is checking in S and B a very similar thing--a forced pairing? YES VERY FORCED-YUK!!! Oh sorry I almost went off on a tangent there.
Hubble--well he wanted to shoot our poor boy Max in the UFO eppy didn't he?
and of course the two Hardings-Ed and Tess well need I explain my reservations about these two---certainly something has been hidden here for sure.
Hansen-the deputy-well he was really pushing for trouble in S and B wasn't he?
Can't think of any more H's at the moment can anyone else?
So to me it looks like the S's are the help and the H's are trouble???? Maybe????
By shapeshifter 10-12-2000, 04:19 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Usagi:
I always over explain the easy parts and under explain the more esoteric.. sorry! He's a Native American actor, best known for his role as the Holy Man in the movie Dances with Wolves. I've always been a huge fan of his and tend to forget that he's not yet a household name..
Usagi
I appreciate the explanation too--I lived many years without tv or movies so am often ignorant. That poster was Way Too Obvious to be insignificant. I will have to rewatch with that info in mind.
By HyperKitN 10-12-2000, 04:25 PM
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Hello fellow Agents. I just got back from an assignment. Operation watch Ask Not over again & again, hehehe
Okay I have so much to say, GK welcome back. What happened to Palomino?
WR-excellant idea. What a way to bring the cuckoos together :D
47-I was thinking about Isabel being the second in command. But here is my theory I have been pondering over. I know you guys will hate it, but wouldn't it spice things up. What if Michael and Isabels essence were switched. Put into the wrong genders. okay that is kinda gross, because that would really make Michael Max's sister. But I thought it was cool that she took things into her own. I admit Isabel is my favorite on the show. But how Amazonion of her to butt heads w/her bro and flex those muscles.
Gosh I wanted to answer people singley, but now i have forgotten who said what.
I do think that Nasedo did something to Max because if his hand was a casual, push away. I don't think that the hand print would have been so promanent(sp)
I remember someone saying something about the wound that nasedo had looking like a star. when I watched it over again, I noticed this. I wonder what in da heez they did to him.
And what is up w/Whitaker repeating Tess's name. Do you guys think that Maybe Nasedo talked in his sleep and said her name or something? Or maybe she DID have a flash.
Speaking of flashed. I think it is possible that if Tess kisses Kyle he could have a flash. Even though Max didn't touch his neck, Tess could grab him by the back of the neck while she kissed him and stimulate what is dormant there.
I think who ever said it is right about Michael getting hit w/the pulse. He went there w/malicious intentions and though Max did at first, he changed his mind so the pentagon didn't go off. I say this now because I didn't notice at first that Brody did pick up the pentagon the first time Max saw it. Otherwise I thought it was simply because he was holding it.
I am excited about next weeks eppy. I wonder what the secret is. Do you guys think it is Grant she finds in there?
By HyperKitN 10-12-2000, 04:35 PM
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I almost forgot.
That was interesting about the lost city of Atlantis reference. Could it be that it existed and that because of what ever the myth was that I can't remember right now happened. They left earth only to return and live AMONG US again . This may take some looking into, hehehe.
I feel like Indian Jones now. Looking for lost worlds.
By dreamin_away 10-12-2000, 05:22 PM
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Thanx Usagi!!! I do believe I know who you're talkin about! I saw Dances With Wolves, but it was a long time ago so I kinda remember it a little!Thanx again!
By shapeshifter 10-12-2000, 06:55 PM
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quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
STEPHSTEPHSTEPH I thought I was nuts but that was the first thing I thought May 14th we well past May 14th cuz of the May27, 2000 in FourSquare. Somethings UP with this---No I don't think its a blooper....
Destiny aired May 14 (or 15?), and this was when the Mommogram was broadcasted.
And
quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
Hansen-the deputy-well he was really pushing for trouble in S and B wasn't he?
And his accent seemed a little twangier--like Pierce's fake deputy accent. Maybe the real Pierce died a while back and the Pierce we suspected of being an evil alien really was an evil alien who now inhabits the body of the unfortunate late Deputy Hansen.
By ROStaFEHRian 10-12-2000, 07:09 PM
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quote:Originally posted by HyperKitN:
I almost forgot.
That was interesting about the lost city of Atlantis reference. Could it be that it existed and that because of what ever the myth was that I can't remember right now happened. They left earth only to return and live AMONG US again . This may take some looking into, hehehe. I feel like Indian Jones now. Looking for lost worlds.
Hello HyperIndiana KitNJOnes,
DREAMDANCER posted some interesting thoughts on Atlantis on the previous page of this thread and also on the SIGNS&SYMBOLS thread in response to a link I posted (video preview in Quick Time) I think you will like for Disney's ATLANTIS (June 2001). Be sure to check it out.
Postulating Atlantean-type, or other 'Lost Civilization', origin may be one direction the story creators are heading, it not for the podsters, perhaps for other 'human/alien/hybrid' beings on this planet hiding in plain sight.
Rosta
By Dreamdancer 10-12-2000, 07:15 PM
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Hi everyone I thought I would mention to whomever said anything about the sacred heart that just after reading your post the mail man came and guess what college I got a letter from Sacred Heart University in Conneticut. Spooky
By GraceKel 10-12-2000, 07:48 PM
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Hey USAGI-I noticed him right away, DANCES WITH WOLVES--did you notice the book he was holding? I pictured him saying forget that foolish metal book, READ THIS "LOST TREASURES" by Claudia Parker LOL!!!
Shapeshifter--but who cares when it aired LOL---in the story Max says in Four Square try the V constellation using todays date and Liz punched in May 27, 2000. Which was well before the MOMMOGRAM right? So it would have happened on a later date than May 14th unless you are telling me they had the mommavision b4 the Four Square eppy? Somethings up with this---DID TIME STAND STILL?
Dreamdancer very spooky indeed!!!LOL
WR very interesting concept about the CUCKOO.
Evid---run that one by me again?
Shapeshifter-yes I noticed that too he did have more of a twang didn't he hmmmm.
I forgot one of my S people---Dr Sanchez you know the Parkers say "Dr Sanchez so glad you could make it" I got the impression he was brought in from the outside of the hospital, and GC was hanging in there in his care, but I suspect maybe some foul play interfered with the mysterious looking stranger leaving the ICU just as Mr Parker, Mrs Parker and Liz came running. Well the point is-that Dr Sanchez was Grandma Claudia's doctor. Another S name.
STARSTRUCK WHERE ARE YOU? NEMO? ROCKLOWERY?
QFANNY? PALOMINO?
By czech please 10-12-2000, 07:48 PM
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quote:Originally posted by HyperKitN:
47-I was thinking about Isabel being the second in command. But here is my theory I have been pondering over. I know you guys will hate it, but wouldn't it spice things up. What if Michael and Isabels essence were switched. Put into the wrong genders. okay that is kinda gross, because that would really make Michael Max's sister. But I thought it was cool that she took things into her own. I admit Isabel is my favorite on the show. But how Amazonion of her to butt heads w/her bro and flex those muscles.
Hyper: i love it!
By shapeshifter 10-12-2000, 09:21 PM
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quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
...Shapeshifter--but who cares when it aired LOL---in the story Max says in Four Square try the V constellation using todays date and Liz punched in May 27, 2000. Which was well before the MOMMOGRAM right? So it would have happened on a later date than May 14th unless you are telling me they had the mommavision b4 the Four Square eppy? Somethings up with this---DID TIME STAND STILL?...
I think the writers just looked at something like http://www.crashdown.com/episodes/ (but not the actual script) and based the date on that...unless...would that be the date of SH in Roswell time?
And re the S's: I keep thinking of the Scrabble board and how many S's there are , but there really aren't very many H's, so maybe there is something to it.
And on the Sacred Heart: I prefer Liz as the saver of souls rather than a type of Eve and/or Mary...but actually, both could fit. If Tess WAS married in her former life, then Liz IS the virgin. And if Max & Liz procreate, she would be the mother of a new species (I think).
And remember the strawberry symbol discussion? Well, the "original" reason strawberries were considered symbolic of virginity was because strawberry plants have both flowers and fruit at the same time, and this was considered to represent the Virgin Mary in her simultaneous virginity and fertility.
By Evid 10-12-2000, 09:57 PM
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GraceKel: Hey I got your messages, sorry I had family stuff.
First of all I do think you have something brewing with the name game. How do you think of these things? I will let you know if I think of somebody, my brain is so tired at this point, so lets see how clearly I can explain this one.
What I was thinking is that Nasedo/Harding might represent the Coyote/Shapeshifter.
The Coyote falls in love with a beautiful woman who might represent Shiela. In order for the Coyote to marry Shiela he had to kill the giant, Gray Big Ye'i(I don't know who tis could be). Afterwards, the women/Shiela attempts to kill the Coyote four times, but each time he hides his vital organs so he could come back to life. The woman eventually marries him.(Remember on Tess's files who was listed as her Mom, Shiela, plus Nasedo came back to life, She might have tryed to kill him when she found out he was evil? I don't know why but I think she might have not died the night we are lead to believe she did.)
Later we find that coyote is killed while hunting with the wife's brothers.
Coyote's wife turns into a bear and kills all but one of the brothers. The last brother kills her, and brings his brothers back to life. This story explains why bears are often considered the female counterparts of coyotes.(Liz's pet name is Honey Bear)
So what so you think?
The rest of the story I just thought was similer to the GC story about arresting the brothers in the park. Do you see the connection between the bear and the Coyote. This means Liz herself might be is the female Coyote.
It is Mythology and therefore each person might read into it differently, it's hard to connect the hole story, I just thought they used parts of this story for Roswell.
I hoped that helped GraceKel. Goodnight.
Evid
By shaiwon72 10-13-2000, 01:01 AM
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i don't know... something's up w/ liz and i can't think of why she seems so...weird. but i'll put my 2 cents into this.
just suppose that liz isn't really liz. what i mean is.. we know that liz was away in florida for 3 months. and when she comes back, she seems weird, distant. just suppose... maybe she's an imposter and someone switched her and the real liz is hidden somewhere. could explain why she's acting weird.... almost like a distain for max. after max said that stuff ".... i'm coming for you , liz" and maria puts her 2 cents in, she has almost like a distained look on her face. if liz is an imposter, maybe max is clued into this or has a gut feeling and senses that liz is somewhere and that he is coming for the real liz.
or... maybe liz was coming back to roswell when she encountered some unsuspecting and they planted something on liz that would make her act differently. what i mean is (think of the movie, puppetmaster -- which, by the way i really liked) maybe liz was implanted by some sort of device that controls her reactions, thoughts, emotions. that the real liz is in roswell but is "mind controlled" by some one or some being. that liz is aware of what's going on but can't say what she really wants to say. ... could explain as to why see looked like she wanted to say something during max's speech as the end of ask not.
oh... also, we learn that there were other aliens during the crash. let's just suppose that one of the alien, shapeshifter, was walking around, trying to assimilate w/ the humans and in that course, learns so much stuff. maybe one of these was meeting grandma claudia and an infant liz. maybe this ss makes a connection w/ gc. somewhere down the line, ss is revealed and is being hunted down. what to do w/ all the memories and things that he's learned? maybe sensing the nearing of his end, he transfers (or download) all the stuff he's learned onto the incubation pods to max or a little of everything to the 4 podsters. the podsters learn through ss's eyes (think beastmaster as he sees through the animals' eyes) and max's was that part of gc and infant liz. so, ss dies but not the stuff he's learned... it's carried on through the podsters. the podsters come out and don't really know how to assimilate or communicate verbally but their "uploads" from ss are still there. years later, young max gets off the bus and sees young liz and connects w/ her. he's seen her before as infant liz... via ss. could explain his "draw" to liz.
ok... it sounds far fetched. been watching too much sci fi stuff. it's late but just wanted to propose this stuff.
just my rambling thoughts from a busy mind
By LizParkerfan 10-13-2000, 05:54 AM
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Bumping this thread.
Remember is half alien.
SHIRI APPLEBY
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Agent Victoria
R.B.I.
By LizParkerfan 10-13-2000, 05:55 AM
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WOW!!! 100 post.
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Agent Victoria
R.B.I.
By StephStephSteph 10-13-2000, 07:11 AM
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quote:Originally posted by shapeshifter:
I think the writers just looked at something like http://www.crashdown.com/episodes/ (but not the actual script) and based the date on that...unless...would that be the date of SH in Roswell time?
OK, I'm watching Roswell again tonight with some friends and will be keeping an eye on this date thing. Basically, I want to know the date they punch in in Four Square? And then compare that to the date of May 14th (aka "Ask Not") - right? Just want to make sure I'm getting everything right here. Sometimes you guys get so smart on me and my little brain starts to hurt before I get a chance to write any of your brilliance down
Also, did Tess get a flash when she kissed Max? And we don't know anything about Liz getting flashes with Kyle or anyone else, right? I mean, I guess we can assume she does NOT get any flashes.. heck, I don't get any flashes when I kiss my ex.
By Destinyhater 10-13-2000, 07:12 AM
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Okay, I am obviously new to this. I have always watched Roswell, But I have no idea who Sheila Hubble is. Could someone help me out on this. I think this is all very interesting. I would really like to get "caught up" on your discussion.
By Destinyhater 10-13-2000, 07:27 AM
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quote:Originally posted by Starstruck:
Hi everyone
I just wanted to sy that I LOVED this episode of Ask Not. Applause to the writers. I must admit I was worried after S&B.
OK, so I was wrong about the noctournal thing, but was thrilled to see my 14 theory panning out!
I watched the show over a couple times already and these are some of my thoughts (yes, I took notes, how sad is that LOL)
1- the pod chamber definitely looks different from season 1, even the spot where they place Harding to try to heal him is different.
2- Tess and Courtney are the same coloring- blonde and light eyes. Could Tess be of the Skins race and we just don't know it yet?
3- Michael wears plain silver rings, Courtney has the same type ring on.
4- I enjoyed the irony that Kyle was studying Buddhism over the summer and the Budda Statue is what showed us who Tess really was.
5- When Kyle gets off the bus under the Depot sign you see a vending machine that says Royal Crown.
6- After Isabel tells Max I'm too young to be dust and walks away you see a shadow on the wall. Is this the shadow of the skin who was watching them?
7-Why would the guy be in the storage room with a torch. Did anyone else find that odd?
8- there was an Eagle on the front of the bus that Kyle comes home on, there are Eagles painted on the wall of Witakers office.
9- Witaker tells Liz "Grab a file, feed the beast" all I could think of here is that Witaker is the beast and that Liz was unknowingly "feeding" her information!
10-Michaels apartment door was different again! It's back to a brown wood looking door with no 4 square symbol. Argh!! Are they trying to drive us crazy with this??
11- Courtney asks Michael "How do you feel about PIERCEings?" Kind of an odd out of place question don't you think? OK all you sluethers what does she really mean by this?
12-Maria tells courtney table FOUR (yes there's that number again) is waiting.
13-Tess tells Max "you lived a life COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM THIS ONE."- yes Tess that's the point- he doesn't love you in this lifetime he loves Liz!
14-When they come out of the UFO Center I noticed it says Shelter on the building. I've never noticed this before. Also inside the UFO Center are the signs that say Refuge and Fall Out Shelter. Could they be hinting that the UFO Center is a place of safety for our podians?
I just realized I had 14 points to make LOL!
Oh, I wonder how the guy that plays Brody would feel if he knew some of us thought he had the hands of a woman??:eek"
Last night before watching Roswell I watched a show about Area 51 on the History Channel. They showed an ariel view of the pentagon and the interir of the pentagon is diveded into 5 triangular sections with one of these sections being divided in half again, making a total of six sections (I don't know what these divisions are -walkways maybe?)Anyway, all I could think of was the alien beeper thing and how it has 6 symbols on it even though it is really a 5 sectioned devise. Could it have been modeld after the pentagon. This goes against what I have always felt- that the connection was always to Atherton's dome, inparticular the matching skylight.
Oh, I almost forgot - I vote for Visionaries- we could abbreviate and be the V's as in the V constelation.
GraceKel -Where are you??
Starstruck
I found #11 VERY interesting. I remember her saying that and thinking "why in the heck is she asking that" and now it seems so obvious. Those writers are really sneaky. You people are genuises! I mean you catch on to things that I would never think of. I think this is almost as interesting as actually watching the show!!!
By Evid 10-13-2000, 08:25 AM
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GraceKel: Just a quick note, these lines are from The Convention.
FRAKES: Then maybe you can explain to me why Shatner and Stewart got suites and I didn't.
Looks like we have more S's, and their is something else that I caught when Melton talked to Max.
MILTON: The problem is I'm overwhelmed here. The press is buzzing around like flies. And the celebrities, they're making my life a living hell. Oh, well, it's no wonder my cyadic nerve is acting up.
Shatner and Stewart the celebrities are making Miltons life a living hell. So what does this make Milton? If the S's are good, does this make Milton the Evil SS.
Evid
By StephStephSteph 10-13-2000, 09:22 AM
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Don't you find it odd that Milton would give up the UFO after devoting his WHOLE life to it? Even for millions of $$'s, the guy was obsessed. Hmm... ponder that.
By Evid 10-13-2000, 10:51 AM
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Let's bump this baby.
By HBear 10-13-2000, 11:17 AM
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bump
By LizParkerfan 10-13-2000, 11:38 AM
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Destinyhater-Sheila Hubble was the wife of Everett Hubble (the guy in The Convention). She was also supposedly (supposedly being the key word) was one of the murder victims in the 1972 Shilo murder, who just so happen to be pregnant with a baby girl. And she bears an unreamarkable resemblance to Liz. Both have the same texture of hair, same color of eyes.
I think that Tess is lying about something. If she and Harding were looking for the pod squad then what was she doing with all those pictures of Max. Obviously she found him, so what's up with all the pictures. And I'm still trying to figure out Doug Shellow.
---------------
Applesaucer, Dreamgirl
and an R.B.I agent.
By GraceKel 10-13-2000, 12:08 PM
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Evid-very good pickup on the celeb name S's he!he! How did I think of it cuz I started writing down all the names of the characters and then noticed an uncanny number of S names then the H names.
I was thinking about the Brody Davis said about a disgruntled former employee comes back and knocks off the boss---I think there is a clue about someone's demise--either Mr Harding or Milton--can anyone figure it out.
Also did anyone figure out what
LAKERS
KiSS
Britney Spears
Jimmy Buffett
I am sure there is a clue in there somewhere, lol!!!
By dreamin_away 10-13-2000, 01:33 PM
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On pg.2???? No we shall not have that!!!
By Usagi 10-13-2000, 01:57 PM
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quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
[B]Hey USAGI-I noticed him right away, DANCES WITH WOLVES--did you notice the book he was holding? I pictured him saying forget that foolish metal book, READ THIS "LOST TREASURES" by Claudia Parker LOL!!!
>From the many mentions in this thread alone, I'm sure I don't have the same finesse with my VCR that you've obtained (laugh) so unfortunately I've never been able to make out what the actual book was.. but THAT would be funny!
On another note, since every word in S&B was supposed to be important to the season ahead, has anyone considered Max's session with the therapist (which I absolutely LOVED)as an indication that there are a LOT more aliens on Earth than we've previously been led to believe? (What with the therapist telling Max that 'millions of teenagers' were going through the same thing)
Just another thought...
Usagi
By Usagi 10-13-2000, 01:59 PM
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quote:Originally posted by shapeshifter:
I appreciate the explanation too--I lived many years without tv or movies so am often ignorant. That poster was Way Too Obvious to be insignificant. I will have to rewatch with that info in mind.
[/B]
Let me know what you think after! And note the music that's playing in the background - there's definately some NA flute going on there...
Usagi
By jen2themax 10-13-2000, 02:08 PM
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quote:Originally posted by LizParkerfan:
...
I think that Tess is lying about something. If she and Harding were looking for the pod squad then what was she doing with all those pictures of Max. Obviously she found him, so what's up with all the pictures. And I'm still trying to figure out Doug Shellow.
---------------
Applesaucer, Dreamgirl
and an R.B.I agent.
LizParkerfan- I'm with you! That girl has an agenda...and I don't think it has anything to do with discussing Buddhism with Kyle.
Maybe it's just me, but I thought about how convenient it was that someone just happened to break 'out' of her house when she & Max were on the front porch. I 'Grace Kelled' Tess's facial expression as they ran into her backyard, it looks like she was smiling! How strange?! Maybe it's just because she has really good homeowner's insurance???
By Roswellrox 10-13-2000, 02:10 PM
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Hello Agents of the RBI!
Today our mission is the same as always: Disect Roswell into tiny little pieces until they are completely irrecognizable to the whole... lol... j/k
WR and Usagi welcome!!! You guys have some interesting things to say! Keep it up!
Usagi~ You said that ALL EA's have beepers... I'm not sure where you get that idea. So far, the only people/aliens with Beepers have been Brody and Howie D. at the end of Destiny... the other beepers where in people's houses and stuff... We never actually saw who they belonged to.
Zero~ About the Beepers possibly belonging to good aliens... When I first watched Destiny, I got the impression that the ones with the Beepers were good aliens... I mean Howie D. looked kinda creepy, but that's normal for him (sorry ;-)
I don't know about all this specualtion about Sheila Hubble and GC I mean when was she killed? in the mid 70's (can't remember the exact date)... That doesn't lend itself to anything remotely close to the happenings of Roswell. Maybe I'm just not in tune with what you guys are thinking. It just doesn't make sense to me...
Anywayz, I'm going! Everyone have a good weekend! only 3 more days til Roswell!!!! WAHOO!!!
Agent Rox over and out!
By Usagi 10-13-2000, 02:38 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Roswellrox:
[B]Hello Agents of the RBI!
Usagi~ You said that ALL EA's have beepers... I'm not sure where you get that idea. So far, the only people/aliens with Beepers have been Brody and Howie D. at the end of Destiny... the other beepers where in people's houses and stuff... We never actually saw who they belonged to.
You know what? You're RIGHT! I think I just fell into that assumption at the end of Destiny - and that is a HUGE mistake! (Or probably somewhere in my mind I was HOPING that because there doesn't seem to be any other way to tell who's who.. laugh)
Roswell clue hunting really keeps you on your toes! laugh.
If I see Courtney with one I'll probably fall back on thinking they are of evil alien in origin.. but for now I'll just have to keep a more open mind!
Usagi
By CharmedKitten 10-13-2000, 03:03 PM
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I agree with you on the thought that it doesn't seem right that the aliens would put all four Royals on one ship. But if the split up Max and Liz, then why didn't they split up Michael and Isabel?
But Liz is the key to them figuring out about their past. She has led them to almost every other important discovery. And she's a better match for Max than Tess. Tess doesn't help Max, like Liz does.
By CharmedKitten 10-13-2000, 03:20 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by RozRules:
[B]Ok, here is a screencap of that thing.
What.....the......hell....is THAT??
Okay..first this picture is really gross, but it looks like an animal head to me. I don't know what else it looks like.
By WR 10-13-2000, 03:56 PM
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I have a favour to ask. Could someone with Frame Capturing ability have a look at Leaving Normal, at the scene where Max attempts to 'connect' to Grandma Claudia. In the parts where there appear to be flashes ( negative images? ) there appears to be a bright rectangle. I can't make it out, as I have no GraceKel facilities on my Video. Thanks.
WR.
By 47born 10-13-2000, 03:56 PM
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charmedkitten: I still feel like your pic is of one of the aliens that Pierce talked about in the WR. Remember Max saying "after what Pierce told me about what they did to the other aliens..."?
I also wonder if anyone else noted in the pod chamber they showed the podsters hands holding the stones. When it came to Max, his hands had blood all over them.
I'm still trying to figure out if there is a significance to the 7 years and 3 years that Brody talked about.
I also still wonder about the tape VW played to the sheriff in S&B where Pierce says "I think the sheriff is the key to everything"
I feel like VW will retaliate against T*** for taking Max away from Liz. That was the impression I got when she repeated T*** name.
Any ideas?
By rocklowery 10-13-2000, 05:26 PM
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quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
Also did anyone figure out what
LAKERS
KiSS
Britney Spears
Jimmy Buffett
I am sure there is a clue in there somewhere, lol!!!
There is an electronics store near the Crashdown Cafe that has that written on it's windows. I wouldn't go looking for clues there unless you were looking for the stretch of Citrus Ave. that they filmed that on.
Sorry to disappoint you Gracekel. Good hunting though. Did you notice the big banner behind Max and Maria that had HARVEST in big bold RED letters!!!
By Starstruck 10-13-2000, 05:26 PM
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Hi everyone Agent Starstruck reporting for duty!
You all had me really thinking about Max's speach to Liz about not caring about his planet and destiny. I watched and listened several more times and this is my take on it.
I don't believe Max LITERALY means that he doesn't care about his home planet or his destiny. I think it's an extreme statement meant to get his point across. For example, I've used the statement I was so mad at her I could have killed her. Now I don't REALLY mean that I wanted to kill her it's just an extreme statement to let whoever I'm talking to know how angry I was.
I think he's trying to let Liz know just how important she is to him. Liz knows Max's character already, knows how much he cares about others so she knows he wouldn't let the beings of his home planet down.
As far as "I'm coming for you Liz". The mom-o-gram says, "so that you can COME back and free us." Liz was there and heard her say this and Max knows it. Telling her I'm coming for you is like he's saying just like I'm going to be there for my people I'll be there for you and when I've done what's necessary I'll be back for you , because I love you!
SO what do you think?
Starstruck
By Reggie 10-13-2000, 06:00 PM
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So many comments, so little memory...
First, Brody's beeper thing. If Nasedo has been killing off Evil Aliens, then surely their beepers would have been among their effects? They could have been dispersed by whoever inherited their stuff, cleaned out their locker, etc.
Well, finally! All these aliens, and at last we get a Bug-Eyed Monster!
But who is it? My guess is that it's probably proto-Isabel, maybe proto-Michael or proto-Tess. Proto-Max, while he was still "King" (more later), probably saw many of his people killed in the War. Likely, he even saw some of his inner circle (the Royal Four) killed. Of the four, Isabel is the least like a B.E.M.; so it's probably her.
Imagine a scene: Max is describing this horrible monster he imagined/remembered. Tess sketches as he describes, for the rest of them. Eventually, it's almost right, (but not quite). They all look at it, and agree that it's horrible and ugly. Then Liz looks at it, and calmly identifies the monster Tess drew as... Max.
As to the "King" thing: With Buddhism now in evidence, I wonder if Max isn't so much a King as Dalai Lama? It would explain a lot: why Max is "it", instead of a succesor; the acceptance of "someone else" as ruler, sight unseen; and how Max & Co. get "home" - just another reincarnation. The Royal Four's souls were diverted from their intended rebirths on Twilo, into human bodies. Perhaps humans were the only species which had similar souls, that could accept such a transplant? (Shades of Babylon 5! )
Only Max's young bride has had the customary training, courtesy of Nasedo, to tap into her past life's wisdom. Of course, Max probably was an older, more experienced man; and Michael a battle-hardened warrior. Max may even have been a widower, when he married his young bride. (This may be what Tess doesn't want remembered.)
I wonder where the soul of his older bride wound up...
Remember, is not biologicaly an .
By dreamin_away 10-13-2000, 06:00 PM
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Starstruck- Yeah, I agree with you, I don't think Max meant it literally, but just to prove a point.
By Starstruck 10-13-2000, 06:26 PM
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Evid- I LOVED your immaculate heart theory. I remember it from the first time you said it because it was the first time you posted on this thread and that day was the first time I ever posted on this thread. I remember reading it and thinking WOW how insightful!, but I was at the time new, nervous, and shy abiut responding-- not any more! I just wanted you to konw your idea was appreciated and I think it helps prove that Liz is MUCH more than a small town girl with a boreing life. Your additions to the original theory are also excellent!
Syndee- There's just GOT to be some importance to that #14. How clever of you to realize 5+2+7=14!
By Starstruck 10-13-2000, 06:42 PM
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Hi GraceKel
I too saw the-
Lakers
KISS
Britney Spears
Jimmy Buffet
and I thought, they're feeding us here, but what could it mean. It's an odd group to have been put together don't you think? So here's my stab at it - dont't laugh, I'm really reaching here to find connections.
Lakers- a basketball team. Kyle is on the basketball team. When we are shown the basketball team playing in Toy House it is the blue team vs. the yellow team
KISS- I so don't like to think this, but it's what Nasedo wants Tess and Max to do, and they are the two walking by the sign. Here's one you'll like- Kyle Is SS (I don't happen to believe that but it fits the innitals).
Britney Spears- a spear PIERCES things!
Jimmy Buffet- Nasedo says "Shall we all just commit joint suicide right now, or shall we wait for our enemies to show up and have a nice BOXED LUNCH OF US? I'm thinking here of a BUFFET LUNCH.
So that is my feeble attempt to decipher it. What do you think?
Starstruck
By Nemo 10-13-2000, 06:56 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Evid:
Looks like we have more S's [Shatner, Stewart, suites, and ...]
MILTON.... it's no wonder my cyadic nerve is acting up.
If one more S is any help, you can amend the transcript here: it's the sciatic nerve.
~Nemo (some things he could wish to be less acquainted with....)
By dreamin_away 10-13-2000, 07:00 PM
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Nemo- I'm really bad at science, so, what's the sciatic(spelling?) nerve? It may be totally irrelevant, but it might be a very useful clue!!!
shanns~Only time will tell
By GraceKel 10-13-2000, 07:20 PM
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Hey Rock where have you been hiding--oh so just because the sign is real huh it can't be a clue? LOL!!!! Well maybe not but who said they had to film right in front of it if they didn't want it in the background LOL?
Just kidding with you I hope you know, glad to see you back. Well you can't blame a true Roswellian for trying can you?
Usagi--I couldn't read what the book said either but since this is the only other important book in the story I was just toying with the idea LOL.
Jen2TheMax---speaking of facial expressions did you get a load of the facial expressions on Tess after Max went over to declare himself to Liz when he comes back to the table the looks she makes with her face and the shifting of the eyes well I am sorry she is up to something.
NEMO-I have a question and I know if anyone can answer this it will be you---what is the significance do you think of Manuel Noriega which Kyle called Nasedo? Didn't Pres Bush have our military go in and arrest him for drug dealing or something like that? You know those historical events again?
Rock yes I did see the HARVEST sign(another H) hmmmmm?
Shoutouts to 47Born, RozRules, I know I wanted to comment on your posts but I will have to go back and read them again b4 I do, so many theories to keep straight I am getting mixed up.
By Starstruck 10-13-2000, 07:21 PM
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OK Grace I'm with you on the name game. I had started a list myself of meanings of names it doesn't go with what you'r doing but I thought you might find it interesting.
Maxwell- capable (also remember Maxwell Mts. on Venus)
Isabel-consecrated to God- the spanish form of Elizabeth
Michael- who is like God (the archangle St. Michael)
Tess-fourth child
Liz- consecrated to God
Maria-(refered you to the name Mary) bitter or bitterness-Marah another derivative of Mary was the Hebrew word for the bitter resin myrh used in Biblical times as incense and perfume. I thought that was ironic concidering Maria's love of Cedar oil and other such aromatherapy.
Alex-helper and defender of mankind
James- the supplanter
Kyle- from the straight
Kathleen- pure one
Amy- beloved friend
Diane- Goddess, divine one. Diana was the Roman moon goddess
Philip- lovers of horses
Ed(Eddie)- prosperous guardian
Sheila- dim sighted one
Doug-from the black or dark water
Owen- well born one, young warrier
Claudia- the lame one
Jeff- divinely peaceful
Nancy-graceful one
Jen- white cheeked, white wave, white phantom
Larry- crowned one. St Laurence. celebrated 3rd century martyr
Courtney- dweller at the court or farmstead
Davis- (as in Brody Davis)- son of the beloved one
I thought this was cool Jason means healer. Also I was thinking Alex's bands name was the Whits- WHITaker, just thought taht was interesting.
Starstruck
By dreamin_away 10-13-2000, 07:29 PM
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Starstruck- That's a good idea!!! They did probably check out what each name meant before picking it! This could definetly be used to prove different theories...
By 47born 10-13-2000, 07:44 PM
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Ok RBI Agents-Go Figure!
I decided to play the number game with Brody's 7 and 3. I came up with some oddities.
In the Pilot, Max Evans lived at 7532 Newton Place, in the WR he lived at 6025 Murray Lane.
In the Pilot, Maria called 37 times to see how Liz was.
Maria's father left when she was 7. (SH)
The podsters hatched 10 years ago, seperated for 3 and have been back together for 7 years.
In LN GC turned in 3 men.
The captive alien was held in the WR for 3 years.
Liz and Max met in the 3rd grade. (Pilot)
There were originally 3 podsters. M/M/I.
In 285 South, Michael and Maria are in the Sultan's Hideaway room 3.
Topolsky and six others were killed in the fire. (7 people)
Get the idea? The numbers 7 and 3 seem to reoccur about as often as 4-1-5 and both sets of numbers equal 10.I don't know what this means if anything,but its fun.
Also if you play Gracekels name game with first names you can come up with
Max-3
Liz-3
Maxwell-7
Michael-7
Valenti-7
Everett-7
Maria-5
Kyle-4
T***-4
Alex-4
Roswell-7
Isabel-6 (she's the odd one)
I know this is far out but hey, who knows?
By dreamin_away 10-13-2000, 07:50 PM
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Bein forced off computer so goodnight agents!!!!
47born- like the idea!!!!
By czech please 10-13-2000, 07:50 PM
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i have a question (and i'm sure one of my fellow rbi agents has the answer!)
has there ever been any explicit reference to everett hubble dying in "the convention," or is it just something people have assumed? is it possible that he survived the shooting?
************
"pay more attention, isabel.
there are signs all around you."
By jen2themax 10-13-2000, 07:54 PM
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quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
...
Jen2TheMax---speaking of facial expressions did you get a load of the facial expressions on Tess after Max went over to declare himself to Liz when he comes back to the table the looks she makes with her face and the shifting of the eyes well I am sorry she is up to something.
GraceKel- I sure did notice the shifty eyes! Plus, the first words out of her mouth are, "You realize our problems aren't over don't you, Max?" I don't think Max figured if he got back with Liz all their problems were solved!
By jen2themax 10-13-2000, 07:57 PM
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quote:Originally posted by czech please:
i have a question (and i'm sure one of my fellow rbi agents has the answer!)
has there ever been any explicit reference to everett hubble dying in "the convention," or is it just something people have assumed? is it possible that he survived the shooting?
************
"pay more attention, isabel.
there are signs all around you."
czech please- I believe Valenti checked for a pulse and said, "He's dead."
By redhawk 10-13-2000, 08:09 PM
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Whew! I finally caught up! You guys are flying through threads almost as fast as the dreamer threads.
There were so many wonderful and insightful theories. I don't know where to begin.
Rosta - Wow! That character analysis of Max was eye opening.
Evid - That analogy between Liz and the Virgin Mary was amazing! Wow! I'm so glad you brought it up again. I must have missed it the first time.
GraceKel - I never noticed the dates were different for the shooting. Thanks for pointing that out. I sure hope our writers aren't that sloppy. I have high expectations for Roswell.
Just had to throw this in here. I want to get that icky eyeball thing out of my mind.
See! The world really does revolve around M & L. HeHe. Just Kidding.
Good night everyone!
By Evid 10-13-2000, 08:18 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Starstruck:
Evid- I LOVED your immaculate heart theory. I remember it from the first time you said it because it was the first time you posted on this thread and that day was the first time I ever posted on this thread. I remember reading it and thinking WOW how insightful!, but I was at the time new, nervous, and shy abiut responding-- not any more! I just wanted you to konw your idea was appreciated and I think it helps prove that Liz is MUCH more than a small town girl with a boreing life. Your additions to the original theory are also excellent!
Syndee- There's just GOT to be some importance to that #14. How clever of you to realize 5+2+7=14!
Starstruck:Thank you for your post it was really sweet of you. I feel like we are class-mates. I had also wanted to post for awhile, but I would think to myself, that sure sounds way out there. But as you can see, by my number of posts I have, I'm not shy anymore.
I want all you lirkers out there to understand that the more minds that work together, the quicker we come to a solution. So join in, we will never laugh at you, only with you.
Nemo: Your right "sciatic," was misspelled. I just copy and paste the transcript from Crashdown Episodes. I think GraceKel only needs LAST NAMES that start with certin letters.
dreamin-away: The sciatic nerve is a nerve that runs down the back of the thigh.
Evid
By CharmedKitten 10-13-2000, 08:53 PM
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Okay..one more thing...I was looking up the meanings of names today. Guess what I found out about Max and Liz or Elizabeth
Max-source: Latin--means: greatness or the greatest
Elizabeth-source: Hebrew--means: God's oath, dedicated--wholly committed to something, as to an ideal, political cause or personal gain, set apart or reserved for a specific us or purpose
If the writers know this...maybe it's a hint? Who knows, but it's an idea. Oh and this is interesting.
Tess-source:origin: Greek--means: reaper, born-fourth, late summer
By GraceKel 10-13-2000, 09:08 PM
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Look what I started with all these name meanings LOL!!! DreamKitten I wanted to respond to that pic Max saw in Ask Not I think it looks very much like the mutilated cow that Kyle was talking about in Into The Woods eppy remember? Also on the Crashdown wall you can see a spaceship sucking up a cow into the ship or spotlighting it or something, but it is a cow, how this will work into the story I don't know for sure, but that was my take on it. Very interesting about the names, Tess(THE REAPER) its funny cuz my daughters and I have been saying that song by BLUE OYSTER CULT "Don't Fear the REAPER" is PERFECT FOR TESS LOL!!!
Starstruck you too have been busy, but what is this Claudia the lame one---that does not fit with my romantic story LOL!!!!
To sum up the S's
Agent Stephens, Mr Selegman, Dr Sanchez, Doug Shellow, Agent Samuels, Former Head of Unit Agent Summmers, and now we must add Shatner and Stewart(LOL Evid) and even a sciatic nerve. Oh and Sorenson.
By Qfanny 10-13-2000, 09:43 PM
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GraceKel, I'm not sure what you're doing with the name game, I've haven't read the entire thread yet. I was away from Monday to Thursday night and when I returned we had 8 pages:
If I can vote, I want the RBI as our shipper name
I know someone remember this, but the whole eye thing--- Remember The Morning After when Max says, "We always looked like this, except you know, the THIRD EYE!" I always thought he was speaking in jest our refering to the powers, but hey, now I can take it literally!
BUMPing from page 4
By Nemo 10-13-2000, 09:52 PM
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quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
what is this Claudia the lame one---that does not fit with my romantic story LOL!!!!
But, GraceKel, there's at least one romantic story it fits with.... (I thought you liked my theory about how genuine Nasedo met Claudia and won her over to his cause. It's among those on the Maxcedo site, by shapeshifter and Qfanny)
http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/
Oh, about names. (I have tried to use those also, as hints for or against possible theories.) For Sheila I would add:
Sheila is said to be an Irish form of Cecilia. St. Cecilia, according to legend, was a 3rd-century martyr. Traditionally she is associated with music, particularly the organ. But if her name hints at her role in the story, I suspect someone is making a biological pun on 'organ,' because it looks as if Harding killed her to steal some human genetic material. (And who do you suppose he was working to fabricate, and get her to look like a convincing substitute for Liz? I'm guessing that's why he targeted Sheila for the starting material. Apparently that part of his plan worked poorly, like some of his other plans -- Tess turned out to look nothing at all like Liz. Human genetics is apparently trickier than he thought.)
By shapeshifter 10-13-2000, 09:59 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Nemo:
...if Harding killed [Sheila] to steal some human genetic material. (And who do you suppose he was working to fabricate, and get her to look like a convincing substitute for Liz? I'm guessing that's why he targeted Sheila for the starting material. Apparently that part of his plan worked poorly, like some of his other plans -- Tess turned out to look nothing at all like Liz. Human genetics is apparently trickier than he thought.
Writers, are you out there? RBI's to Home planet, do you read us?
By ROStaFEHRian 10-13-2000, 10:33 PM
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quote:Originally posted by rocklowery:
I wouldn't go looking for clues there unless you were looking for the stretch of Citrus Ave. that they filmed that on.
Did you notice the big banner behind Max and Maria that had HARVEST in big bold RED letters!!!
Hi Rocklowery,
I didn't notice that 'Harverst' banner. Very intriguing. And the Citrus Ave. Is that the real life name of the street? Citrus may be another clue because of the Florida references. In the episode in which we are introduced to Tess (?Crazy), Max and Michael are in the Evans kitchen and Michael takes out this large sized container of "Florida's Natural" OJ and drinks from the carton. I have been looking for citrus/oj/produce references. An animated symbol shaped like the cane-shaped symbol can be found on the Minute-Maid site.
What was Liz doing in Florida? Or what might Florida have to do with Liz's importance/mythology? Inquiring minds want to know.
You (and everyone) might want to check out what I put up about PRODUCE, Florida, etc on the Signs&Symbols thread http://bbs.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/000381.html
I'm not having any luck with screencaps lately, but I'll try again. This is from Crashdown screencaps for Leaving Normal (ss101-013)and is one of a few screencaps with Alex caught in the "green ray" and you can seen the alien group spraying that green wash on a cactus with the familiar curling roots.
Rosta
By RozRules 10-13-2000, 11:07 PM
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Here is the screen cap from Leaving Normal that WR requested:
I don't see anything unusual about it though.
~Agent Christina
By deidra e, jones 10-14-2000, 12:18 AM
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Oh yeah great reading!
DeeDee
By LizParkerfan 10-14-2000, 06:45 AM
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Bumping this thread.
I think Liz, Alex, and Maria are important. I mean isn't it a coincidence that they fit just perfectly with the pod squad.
Liz with Max
Michael with Maria
Alex with Isabel
That my seem crazy, but oh well.
By LizParkerfan 10-14-2000, 06:47 AM
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Oh yeah and one more thing.
Remember is half
By dreamin_away 10-14-2000, 06:58 AM
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Okay, last night while I was going to sleep I came up with an idea. I don't know if it's been mentioned before, so I'll put it on here anyway-
If you've read the books you know Michael has a brother(Tess?). Now in the books Michael's brother- I can't think of his name right this second- is on the opposing side at first. Then, after like forever, he realizes he should help the pod squad and helps kill ummm, oh dang I can't seem to remember any names, ummm, DuPris, that's his name, DuPris. Then he helps them defeat the consciousness. Now if Tess is Michael's sister, I'm pretty sure that Michael thinks she is, or did anyway, do you think she could be a rebel like his brother in the books?
Just an idea, thought you might like to know.
By shapeshifter 10-14-2000, 07:21 AM
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dreamin_away,
I've been looking for something like that for awhile. Even though the WB only "officially" used Book One, I started a thread (now gone) on phrases shared by both the later books and the show. Anyway, they've already established the pattern on the show of morphing The Evil Sheriff into the The Good Sheriff. But Tess was not included in the Brody plot, which could mean either they still don't trust her or that they didn't want to bother her when she was in mourning.
Even more than individual characters, I keep looking for a change of good-to-evil of an entire "race" as the Collective Consciousness. It was interesting how the "evil" of the CC was kind of Buddhist in concept as opposed to Satanic (which DuPris clearly represented).
By Featherrox 10-14-2000, 08:37 AM
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I've read most of this thread and did not see it mentioned that when the podsquad used the stones in the chamber to attempt to heal Nesado that the stones had no effect on him. Granted he had been attacked by an alien. BUT all times the stones have worked in the past LIZ has been present. She was not present this time. Just a thought.
"Just know this, I'm coming for you Liz"
By GraceKel 10-14-2000, 08:43 AM
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RozRules and WR about the slo mo scene of GC and the flashes Max has it is very faint you can barely see it---but it looks to me like a WINDOW that he keeps flashing to trying to connect with GC---I could be wrong though it was something that was shaded so you could barely make out what it was. All I could think of was the window to the soul but hey I don't know anybody else see this?
Nemo of course you know I agree with you with just about everything LOL I forgot about the lame Claudia---you are so right!!!
Nemo any ideas come to mind about the NORIEGA comment Kyle made in regards to Nasedo?
ROSTA--I am so sorry I never responded to your very long well thought out post, you are amazing really. There is just one thing we disagree on or maybe just see differently, I think it makes perfect sense for a GREAT LEADER be reluctant to become involved in a war---afterall a great thinker KNOWS that WAR is always last answer to problem---the consequences of war being so catastrophic----and how do they truly know who the enemy is??? I would rather have someone at the helm that was thinking carefully about everything b4 acting KILL KILL KILL---Nemos post about the RAGE ROOM in mind here. I also think that part of it has been that up until now it has all seemed so UNREAL to Max--try wrapping your mind around all these new responsibilites when just yesterday you were just a 17year old love sick alien in hiding.
QFANNY I mentioned the THIRD EYE LOL!!!! You knew it would be me didn't you? LOL!!!
I could not find the Maxcedo link to post my GC story on but I will get over there soon I promise, I cannot think of a way to make it really short, though, sorry. Sorry I am such a procrastinator.
By Evid 10-14-2000, 09:53 AM
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Evid reporting in RBI's,
Hey GraceKel: I noticed you wanted some info on Noriega.
Kyle calling Nasedo, "Noriega," does make Nasedo look like he is trying to take over control(outed the civilian president) and could be a double agent.(CIA sale of secrets) This might be Nasedo's History on his home planet and is not done yet. Could he have been a Commander? Read on..........
Noriega, Manuel Antonio
1938-, Panamanian general. As commander of the National Defense Forces (1982-89), he ousted the civilian president (1985) and became the de facto leader of Panama. After he was implicated in drug trafficking, the sale of U.S. secrets to Cuba and the USSR (he was also in the pay of the U.S. Army and CIA from 1955 to 1986), and other illegal activities, U.S. officials urged him to step down (Jan. 1988). A U.S. indictment on drug charges and subsequent economic sanctions proved ineffective. In Dec. 1989 the U.S. invaded Panama, captured Noriega, and brought him to Miami, where he was convicted (1992) on racketeering and conspiracy charges relating to drug trafficking.
Looks like Nasedo is not done with Max and his take over. With Tess being excepted into the pod squad by Max, Nasedo has Max right where he wants him.
I don't think it's just jealousy that Liz feels towards Tess. I think Liz knows what she is up to but can't tell Max just yet. She literally bites her tongue, when Max is giving his "I'm coming for you Liz," speach and boy if looks could kill Tess would be dust, after the way Liz looked at her.
Their is still way to much of the story to tell for Nasedo to be dead. Now let's just wait and see how they will explain his death and resurrection, and it better be good for us RBI's.
Evid
By ROStaFEHRian 10-14-2000, 10:10 AM
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quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
ROSTA--I am so sorry I never responded to your very long well thought out post, you are amazing really. There is just one thing we disagree on or maybe just see differently, I think it makes perfect sense for a GREAT LEADER be reluctant to become involved in a war---afterall a great thinker KNOWS that WAR is always last answer to problem---the consequences of war being so catastrophic----and how do they truly know who the enemy is??? I would rather have someone at the helm that was thinking carefully about everything b4 acting KILL KILL KILL---Nemos post about the RAGE ROOM in mind here. I also think that part of it has been that up until now it has all seemed so UNREAL to Max--try wrapping your mind around all these new responsibilites when just yesterday you were just a 17year old love sick alien in hiding.
Hello GRACEKEL
Always happy to 'see' you . What a kind thing to say. Thank you
I had to go back and look at my post again because to make sure I didn't leave out, or put in a word that changed the meaning of something. Perhaps that was someone else's post you were thinking of ?? ??
I certainly agree with your statement. Gaining some of the wisdom, insight, and compassions needed to make decisions is part of the grail path; the hero/heroine has reached the soul transformation required to 'ask the right question'.
And also that is what I meant by saying Max has barely begun the journey, both the inner and outer journeys; he is so young and still inexperienced or naive in so many ways). Indeed, his recent experiences just brought him face to face with the evil without as well as within, and he has to come to terms. And he has just begun the journey of the heart.
Max has spoken many times, poignantly so, of his desire to just run away with Liz, forsake responsibility or duty.
But we know he can't do this. It is not who he is. His mind, conscience and heart have been informed by experience (even his harshest experiences, ie with Pierce), Liz, his parents, friends (and numerous others, I suspect, during his short time on this planet).
Max had reached a personal crossroads, and made a decision that will inform his right relationships, rather that set him on a path (such as Michael is still in danger of following) that might have led to the death of an innocent person or other mindless destruction before thinking of consequences. There is indeed a time to act, but what you said is quite correct.
Indeed Max knew the outcome even BEFORE he set out to get Brody. I think the history lesson helped him to integrate on a larger (ie, planetary) scale, but in his immediate world, Max had reached that crossroad, and started on the right path months earlier when he did not kill/abuse/ or take advantage of his power situation with Pierce (in DESTINY).
My speculation was that the dead, staring creature was an INNOCENT victim of mindless hate that got out of hand. A memory of that time. A situation lived before (perhaps involving him, and maybe the others??), when a group went gang-banging and killed an innocent being, and had stared in it's eyes as it died?
Now how did I get down here? I hadn't set out to write anything. Really Anyway, let me know what part of my post might have given that impression It wasn't intended.
Rosta
BTW- can anyone tell me where the 3 or 4 premiere promo screencaps, ep1 (and ep2, if they are done yet) screencaps are? Use PM. Thanks.
By Dreamdancer 10-14-2000, 11:43 AM
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Hello fellow agents I just thought of something .
About the date May 14. What if the writters did that on purpose. Look May the fifth month and 14 4+1 what do you think people a clue or what. Well I have to go Grace Kel some eps to see if I can come up with anythingh else.
By sno_dove21 10-14-2000, 11:44 AM
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shaiwon: I have a question about your post. How could Liz have been a baby during the crash in 42? That would make her much older then she seems. Just curious.
By WR 10-14-2000, 02:25 PM
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RozRules, thanks for that.
GraceKel, I'm glad that you also see it, I though perhaps I was imagining it.
Thanks.
WR.
By shapeshifter 10-14-2000, 03:37 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Featherrox:
I've read most of this thread and did not see it mentioned that when the podsquad used the stones in the chamber to attempt to heal Nesado that the stones had no effect on him. Granted he had been attacked by an alien. BUT all times the stones have worked in the past LIZ has been present. She was not present this time. Just a thought.
"Just know this, I'm coming for you Liz"
Featherrox, unless it was you (Roswell typing moment here ) who already posted it, someone else suggested that too. So then, assuming it was NOt you, then shapeshifter's Roswellian Law of 2 comes into play, meaning that if 2 or more posters independently come up with the same theory or plot element, then it is more likely to be where the writers are going.
And if it is significant, then Nasedo's comment (when he came to life in Destiny) that Liz shouldn't be there, would imply that he was not supposed to live.
By dreamin_away 10-14-2000, 04:47 PM
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Just bumpin, we're gettin ready to go onto the 2nd pg.
By Starstruck 10-14-2000, 04:48 PM
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czech please- You were wondering if we know if Hubble is truely dead. I think I remember Topolsky saying to the sheriff something like did you think you could kill Everette Hubble and not send up a red flag.
By the way I love your posting name!
ROStaFEHRian- your little alien in the spaceship is too cute!
By SciFiMom 10-14-2000, 05:28 PM
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Okay, I haven't read all the way thru the posts, so, if I am repeating things already said...sorry.
I just had a thought, I had to share! I was reading speculations about Tess and Michael being "bad" aliens. Well, in a war there aren't really good and bad people, there are two sides. Sometimes there is a right and wrong side (like in WW2), but the people are just pawns in the bigger picture. So, if this is correct and the true royal four were separated, or mixed up with the other aliens, somehow, then this would get really interesting!! What if by growing up together they find a way to bring peace to their worlds? But I doubt that this is true, it is fun to speculate over though.
Here is a thought, what if Liz is Sheila Hubble's baby? Maybe Nacedo tried to save her but could only save the baby? Liz may not know she was adopted...or maybe she was "transplanted" to her current mother somehow... Okay maybe that is a little far fetched, but hey this is scifi, right? I'm on a roll, , what if Nacedo is actually her father...and that is why he saved her that day and maybe that is why he didn't mind her kissing him. He did seem amused, but that wasn't a father daughter kiss was it?
Back to the idea that Liz was adopted...what if the "real Liz" died at birth that day and was replaced with "our Liz" by Nacedo and Grandma. oooh, I like that, yeah that has a real potential. Maybe Grandma gave Liz all her research because it has the truth in it and she wanted Liz to know the truth when she was old enough. Oh yeah...this thought has possibilities!
Okay, that is enough ramblings from me for one day! bye
~Sheri
By dreamin_away 10-14-2000, 05:39 PM
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SciFiMom- Just wanted to say that I your 's!!!
By Starstruck 10-14-2000, 06:08 PM
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My fellow agents I have a mission for you!
Place your hand palm down on your mouse pad. What do you see? ... I see the number 14... ONE thumb and FOUR fingers. The hand is Very important for so many reasons in this show could this be what the #14 means?
Your mission will be complete when you report back to Agent Starstruck and let her know what you think. :D
By Dreamdancer 10-14-2000, 06:13 PM
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Starstruck, You really are going evrywhere with this aren't you. But I do agree the number five is important.
By dreamin_away 10-14-2000, 06:15 PM
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starstruck-Very Interesting!!!!!!!!!
By GraceKel 10-14-2000, 07:07 PM
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As far as a name for our little group I think that Zero should certainly pick the name after keeping this thread alive for us for so long, however, that said I would like to express that I hope that the name of the actual thread would not change, I know most of us at least do share a common belief that LIZ is IMPRT to MYTH but the way things have been going I have been worried about that lately, I certainly wouldn't want the name of the thread changed now, I hope this makes sense to you all.
ROSTA--I guess I got that impression because I read you felt disappointed how Max said he did not care about his destiny or his planet and you certainly didn't want him to abandon his responsibilities blah blah and have less respect for him----I could be confusing this with something I read on another thread you posted--maybe on the SCI-FI thread, or it could be like you said I am mixing you up with another poster,- I certainly try to read as many ideas as I can and quite frankly I do find it hard to keep everyone straight---everyones names and ideas get mixed together in my mind sometimes from just pure overload--I hope you were not offended by anything I said-it was not intended at all, I also love all the symbolism you share with us on the other threads--what an incredible contribution you have made.
Starstruck what you said about the hand on the mousepad---did make me think of how many times I have seen that poster behind the pod squad reading GO TO HIGH TECH---to tell you honestly I have been trying to come up with a link somehow to all this MIND MELDING and the HIGH TECH posters that have been featured but maybe there is a clue here somewhere in what you said.
47Born --Starstruck and I posted on this very same thing about Max's address being different from the pilot to the white room---Starstruck did you catch my post about Stephens address-was the CLUE just that he had lived where Max had lived that he was one of Max's people?
ROSTA---your idea about the flash being some violent alien act could be right on target, I had never thought of it--I immediately went with the cow LOL don't know why that is just what came to mind.
By Linzy 10-14-2000, 07:44 PM
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Vote for Liz and Max. Show your devotion by vote here at this link. . http://www.angelfire.com/la2/btvs/wbsurv.html
Liz is trailing Maria
Max is trailing Angel
So go vote!
Linzy
By Qfanny 10-14-2000, 08:27 PM
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This is my third time trying to post something on this thread. I had to replace my broken blinds today and Max the dog has been barking all day/night.
GraceKel: I did think that you would post on the BEM and TMA link. LOL. Now we can operate under shapeshifter's rule of 2 again.
Why is Maria getting so many lines? Granted, she's a great character, but I really want to focus on Max and Liz and I'm tired of Maria-interuptus syndrome. Liz's character so far seems so distant.
I don't think that Liz really hates Tess. I am not saying that she likes Tess either. I think Liz accepts Tess for what she is, and Liz is upset with herself for what she isn't. I think that's why she's been able to resist Max and why she's been so "out of the picture" thus far. Ron! This is a plea. Please write more for Liz and her importance to the alien mythology.
By bluecornmoon 10-14-2000, 09:32 PM
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Just bumping! This thread is in the second page and we can't allow that!
By czech please 10-14-2000, 10:00 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Starstruck:
My fellow agents I have a mission for you!
Place your hand palm down on your mouse pad. What do you see? ... I see the number 14... ONE thumb and FOUR fingers. The hand is Very important for so many reasons in this show could this be what the #14 means?
Your mission will be complete when you report back to Agent Starstruck and let her know what you think. :D
starstruck--you could have something here. after all, most of the p-squads major powers eminate through their hands.
the thumb is similar to, but different from the fingers. but without the thumb, the hand is comparably useless. do i smell a roswell metaphor???
hey, with this show every little thing is up for grabs, right?
************
"pay more attention, isabel.
there are signs all around you."
By Evid 10-14-2000, 10:39 PM
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Starstruck: Evid reporting in for duty, I should get a raise for this one.lol
North American Indian Mythology.
Contellation of the Hand
According to the Lakota, the Constellation of the Hand, namely the bottom half of Orion, represents the arm of a great Lakota chief. The Orion's Belt represents the Chief's wrist and the thumb is formed by his sword. Rigel is the tip of the index finger, and Beta Eridani that of the little finger.
The tale related to this constellation tells us how the gods wanted to punish the Lakota chief for his selfishness and made the Thunder People rip out his arm. To help her father, the chief's daughter offered to marry whomever would recover her father's arm. One man made a long and perilous journey through the sky and the Earth.
Fallen Star, a young warrior born of a mortal mother and a celestial father, returned the lost arm to the chief and married his beautiful daughter. The return of the arm to the chief symbolizes the harmony between the gods and the people with the help of the younger generation.
By shapeshifter 10-14-2000, 10:50 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Zero:
Final post of the night (promise) - I'm off tomorrow for 5 days (going to the Bay Area and the Cal/UCLA game - Go Bears!). Anyway - based on the speed of this thread, it MAY fill up by the time I get back, so SHAPESHIFTER!!! Please feel free to start a new one if we reach [250 posts]. Copy the summary, and if you can add some of the great thoughts that have been discussed lately. I have updated the timeline to include the date of the communication/beeper alert. So - it is somewhat set to go. I hope to get access to a computer, but may not be able to, so everyone have a GREAT END OF THE WEEK AND WEEKEND, and I will be back Monday!!!
Zero
Attention all night shifters of the RBI:
1.We are almost up to the allowed (by mods)250 posts
2.Zero will be home MONDay (not tomorrow as originally posted).
3.Last time they closed the thread at 280
4.I want to honor Zero's last wish *sob* (j/k) to post the summary with the new thread.
SO: When should this be done?
A. Now?
B. Tomorrow morning?
C. Just wait for Zero to get back?
And Qfanny!!! My Alter Ego in Nebraska! YOu won't believe this: The window blinds fell on me twice this week, so today I put up a curtain rod instead!!!
Okay, I will bite my tongue on other comments so y'all can choose A., B., or C. while I brush my teeth & get ready for bed.
By deidra e, jones 10-14-2000, 11:39 PM
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Good reading!
DeeDee
By huggybehr 10-15-2000, 03:15 AM
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Hello fellow mythologists, I can't believe how I've been neglecting my favourite thread and missing out on so many great theories.
Dreamdancer, I totally agree with you, I had the same thought as you about 5/14. It is such an obvious blooper otherwise, so it has to have some significance, or they could have chosen any other date.
Remember when the orb was activated there were 4 (the pod people) plus 1, Liz. There are also 5 healing stones, and it has been pointed out that the absence of Liz at this healing may be the reason why they could not save Nasedo. This just serves to reinforce for me the importance of Liz, I wonder when they are going to start making the links, the clues are all there.
By SciFiMom 10-15-2000, 05:55 AM
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Evid, I love the analogy! That is a great story, and it does fit well with "our" characters...who knows! Thanks!
~Sheri
By Dreamdancer 10-15-2000, 06:10 AM
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Thanks huggybehr, I thought about after everyone started mentioning it and then it came to me. May-fifth month,#14-1+4=5 there it is again 5 its so obvious now right? I hope and think the 5 is Liz she is the nly logical one.
By GraceKel 10-15-2000, 07:10 AM
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Evid what a rat I have been I forgot to thank you for that info on NORIEGA I cannot believe it----I so appreciate that---so do you think we were getting a clue here that Nasedo(Noriega) was not the good guy or not?
ZERO?
QFANNY---I so agree with you about LIZ PARKER, they act like because Max and Liz aren't together that Liz has not IMPORTANCE----WRONG---Liz is one of the STRONGEST characters on the show--and whether she is with Max or not should always remain the star of the show with plenty to do, just like Max. That is my two cents worth.
Evid very interesting na mythology on the hand as well it does sound like someone we know doesn't it....hmmmmm!
Shapeshifter you do what ever you think is best for our thread, I am sure Zero will appreciate your efforts. WOW I cannot believe we are almost ready for another thread, we must be improving on our observations quite a bit LOL.
By Usagi 10-15-2000, 08:37 AM
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I just had a thought about the failed Nasedo healing - because the fact that Liz wasn't there keeps coming up in this thread. In numerology the number 5 represents change while the number 4 represents stability and permanence (this is WAY simplified, but still pretty accurate). It sure does seem that Liz has always been the catalyst for change with this group..
Evid - I LOVE the NA stuff you've been posting! Have you come across the story of kokopelli and his sons mission yet? (I'll get around to posting it one of these days if you don't beat me to it!)
Best regards to All!
By shapeshifter 10-15-2000, 09:51 AM
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Evid et al,
First, a post script on Noriega:
from THE YEAR IN REVIEW by Dave Barry at http://www.armory.com/~peterr/humor/Dave_Barry/911231-year-in-review (this is just one source; it was well publicized)
quote:
True Item: From his cell in Dade County Jail in Miami, Manuel
Noriega announces that he is a ``born-again'' Christian.
I thought this could have lots of parallels with Nasedo's relationships with people and podsters.
And on the Constellation of the Hand: I have thought all along that the weird image shown when Max was going after Brody looked more like the socket of a dismembered body (ewww). Or, at least if it was an eye, it was reptilian.
Now, moving along to more pleasant musings: When Max said "I'm coming after you," Liz looked scared. I believe there was a whole thread on this, but I haven't looked at it. So, consider these next 2 ideas as either unspoiled or the thoughts of a lazy librarian :
1) JB was really supposed to say "I'm coming back for you," and Shiri was horrified that he just blew his line.
or
2) Liz was thinking that Max was going to take her to his Home planet
And on the going home issue raised by Tess: I assume this would involve only their essences. Recall her comment about not being attached to the body. Hmmm, she and Buddha Boy should be able to relate on that point.
GraceKel, I'm going to try to get a new one started now so we can be sure the intro is included.
By shapeshifter 10-15-2000, 10:36 AM
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Hey fellow Agents of the RBI, the new Topic: Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology - Thread #11 is at http://bbs.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/000859.html
So, carry on!
I am now going to shapeshift back into a Librarian and go work at an Open House...if only they knew my real identity!
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