Topic: Liz's
Importance to the Alien Mythology - Thread #30 |
By Zero |
02-12-2001,
05:33 PM |
Welcome to the Intro to the 30th thread of the continuing
discussion of “Liz’s Importance to the Alien Mythology.” I
have up-dated the Intro a bit to include a few discussion
items and some new dates. While the Hybrid Chronicle have been
interesting, they really have not added a lot to the Liz
Mythology connection, yet. I’m still hoping we get some
answers by the end of the Hybrid Chronicles!
Background
We have been dissecting all the Roswell episodes, one by
one, season after season (a little optimism there about a
Season 3! ), finding “clues” to Liz’s Importance to the Alien
Mythology and other relevant topics – and there are a lot of
them (WAY MORE than I can ever summarize here)! – and then
developing theories and potential storylines based on these
(often well hidden) clues! Shapeshifter and Qfanny have
graciously agreed to set up a single link to the former
threads that are available to read (if you have a week or two
or three or four). You can find it at the following link
http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/LizMythology (but be
patient, they will have thread #29 up in good time ) . Starbox
does a wonderful job of posting pictures relevant to our
discussions up front for reference! Thanks! Metaphysical is
also gathering questions to put to a Set Decorator from
Roswell, since the set decoration, etc. seems so important to
our analysis. We hope they know of our appreciation! We are
hoping to get a connection soon! I will let you know once one
comes through.
The following is a LONG summary (oxymoron?) of some of the
clues, thoughts and theories that have been expressed on the
previous threads. I have been trying to incorporate new
theories as we move through Season 2 and new clues are
unveiled; however, not all clues identified are listed or
theories are covered in-depth (remember, I – Zero – am a mere
human being with limited human brain capacity, so can only
retain so many details).
Basic Thesis
Just a reminder - Our basic thesis is that LIZ IS AN
IMPORTANT AND ESSENTIAL ELEMENT TO THE ALIEN MYTHOLOGY.
What is Subject for Discussion?
Liz’s importance to the pod squad – and the survival of the
human race for that matter - and theories concerning the
beings – especially Max - and mysteries swirling around Liz –
are what we dissect. So – feel free to join on in, or just
lurk! And don’t worry about going off on a tangent – they all
tend to lead back to Liz’s importance! We are an up-beat and
friendly – though seriously anal retentive – group! So – dive
in, and join the fun!!
Liz is Important – The Liz/Max Connection
First – and foremost – the general consensus is that Liz is
important to the alien mythology and the pod squad, and that
there is more to the Liz/Max connection than a mere attraction
(i.e., a crush). From that first look – Max getting off the
bus in Kindergarten (or 1st grade – time seems to be operating
in many dimensions – or is it time zones? - recently ) - Max
has been strongly attracted to Liz and felt a special
connection to her. Max often makes comments such as “It was
You!” and “I’m coming for You!” that leads us to believe that
her importance to him was beyond the bounds of “normal.” How
Liz is important is where the fun – and this thread! - comes
in. We now know that if things had continued on the “previous”
course, Liz and Max would end up married, but that all H#**
would break loose, resulting in Earth being taken over by
their enemies (Skins? – we don’t know since FM never says, but
now that we know there are 5 planets involved (MITC), their
“enemies” could come in numerous shapes and sizes from a
number of places) in 2014 – all apparently due to the
cementing of the L&M connection (and Tess’ leaving the
group as a result of that connection) – a connection that Liz
has broken by her deception at Future Max’s urging in TEOTW.
But, has she truly broken that “connection” irreparably or
just temporarily? It appears that Max can’t totally let go of
the connection. After events in NY, Max seems willing to give
their Friendship another try, and in “A Roswell Christmas
Carol,” his turning to Liz for help in his time of need, only
confirms that even more. As Max says in the end – once Liz has
helped him overcome his trial of conscience – he “believes in
her!” In the Hybrid Chronicles it is obvious that Max still
cares deeply for and worries about Liz, but is trying to
respect her need to be kept out of “it.” But, once again –
with the discovery of the Blue Goop – he has to turn to Liz
for help. And as usual, Liz is the one to help move them to
the solution to the problem.
There is MORE to the Liz/Max connection than just a
romantic relationship, as we have always assumed. She is his
trusted advisory, his sound of reason, she is the yin to his
yang (or is he the yin to her yang? ), and she helps him
connect to his human side, finding that there is strength in
his humanity! BUT - Lets go back to the beginning, since few
questions regarding that connection have been answered this
Season – though we did get some vital information in MITC!
Consequence of the Connection – the Change?
Most believe that when Max healed Liz and then caused a
"reverse connection" (Pilot), that something changed in Liz.
We now know from the events in MITC that LIZ WAS CHANGED, and
is developing powers, but how come?! How has that change come
about? Whether the change in Liz was new or an awakening of
something already a part of her is not known. Apparently
Future Max knew Liz had the potential to “change” since he
made the comment that she wasn’t letting it happen, but did he
know the true potential of that change and what initiated it
or prevented it from occurring? Is Liz’s “change” only a
result of Max “bringing her back,” what Ava’s reaction to
hearing this news seems to imply – or is there something more
involved! Many feel there is something that goes to the core
of who Liz is: · Maybe from a past life on the pod squad’s
planet (Antar)? (Is she the true love of Max’s previous life?
Could she be the “true bride” – only sent on a different ship
to prevent easy discovery, with Tess serving as an unknowing
dupe. But if so, and she is part alien, why did she disappear
in Wipeout? She did cause the Skin’s shed skin to
disintegrate, but that could have other reasons for occurring.
Maybe she is purely human, but contains the “true bride’s”
essence – but in a different configuration than the Hybrid pod
squad?) · Could Liz or her essence have had a previous life
encounter with Max’s alien “essence” or human DNA donor here
on Earth? Maybe Max’s alien predecessor conducted
reconnaissance through possessing a human, and somehow “met”
and romanced a predecessor to Liz – but was called back to
Antar, leaving his true love behind. · Was Liz the original
“4th” podster (and Max’s true mate) who “hatched” early,
failed to have her alien essence develop completely, and was
humanized by her human parents? (Though this seems unlikely
now that we know that Tess has a dupe in Ava. But, why did
they show that leaking pod in Sof47, and is it relevant to
Liz? Could Tess/Ava be a ruse – as mentioned above - to
protect the true queen, Liz, from being discovered before she
has time to develop her powers that would protect her and her
loved ones?) · Was Liz the "second in command" referred to
in the Mom'ogram, who somehow (deliberately?) was separated
from the group and sent separately to Earth? (Again this seems
highly unlikely after MTD & MITC.) However, Liz is Max’s
most trusted advisor, and the one most likely to keep him
staying the course! · Could Liz be the Trojan Horse –
containing something within her of importance to the podsters
or their enemies, such as the Key to operating the Granolith –
or contain the essence of a Leader, such as part of Max’s
alien essence, that draws him to her? (If you watch “Buffy,”
think of the storyline with Dawn as the Key be sought by
Glory!) · Could she be the 5th Element prophesized about
back on Antar? And the reason Earth was chosen as the hiding
place for the Granolith and the Royal 4 x 2? Could this
explain Ava’s reaction to hearing Liz’s story? Ava had heard
this story foretold during her previous life on Antar of a
special human who would be brought back to life by their king,
and would ultimately be the source of salvation for their
world as well as her own? · Could it just be Liz's
extremely advanced human intelligence (she is a self-admitted
“nerd”) that "connects" her to Max. (Let’s hear it for Smart
Girls! )
These are just a few of the MANY theories offered. The
connection that Max had to Liz started the day he first got
off the bus in kindergarten (or 1st grade) and saw her, and
was awakened in Liz by the healing and reverse connection that
occurred in the Pilot. (And would that connection have also
existed with Zan if he had ever seen Liz? Zan apparently had
been waiting and searching for someone special all his human
life – and he never connected with Ava the way one would have
expected if she was his mate even though they had (we assume)
spent their entire life on Earth – in the NYC sewers -
together. I guess we will never know unless Zan could somehow
be brought back to life with the healing stones (all 5 of them
w/ Liz present) – anything is possible? We don’t know what
happened to his body!) Liz seems to have been drawn to Max
prior to the healing, too, but figured he was not interested
in her. (“Maria, this Face? Max Evans? No Way?”
[paraphrasing]) Liz looks directly at Max as he gets off the
bus, with a sort of recognition. They obviously knew each
other since 3rd grade, and were friends and lab partners more
recently. Some have wondered if the way Max held the back of
Liz’s neck during the healing could have changed her cerebral
cortex – the location that Pierce said the Special Unit had
identified as the source of the aliens’ powers – powers that
we know are all human (according to Harding in WR). Could the
number of connections also come into play into “changing” Liz,
or awaking already – yet dormant – powers existing within her?
Ava’s reaction to Liz’s story seems to imply that the healing
alone was enough for the change – but … what about Kyle
(Buddha Boy?), and all the kids in the hospital? There seems
to be more to initiating the “change” than just the healing!
Though Kyle may develop his own powers someday (though maybe
changing TV channels is not one of them ), and so could the
kids?
Origin of the Connection – Where is Liz from, really?
Many have wondered about Liz’s origins! A few of the common
questions raised include: · Are her parents her “true”
birth parents or is Liz adopted like the Evans kids? · Did
Grandma Claudia have a relationship with an alien that passed
something on to Liz? · Does Liz have a connection to the
Indians or an (ancient) alien race? · Why does Liz look so
much like Sheila Hubble? · How does all this play into the
connection with Max and Liz’s new found “abilities/powers”?
(The first of her “powers” appearing to be astral
projection.) · Is Liz totally of human origin or does she
have some alien “blood” - literally or figuratively – in her
that allowed for the change to occur?
We know that Liz’s cheek cells differed from Max’s in the
Pilot, BUT we did not see what another “human’s” cheek cells
looked like, so it is possible that Liz’s cells are different,
too. (Though a doctor probably would have picked up on this by
now; however, what if there are many variations of cellular
structures in the alien worlds, and Liz matches one of these?)
Could Liz be descended from an alien race that colonized Earth
thousands of years ago? (This is my personal favorite theory!!
) There seems to be many clues that point to this possibility
– but nothing definite. We now know there are at least 5
planets involved in the Antar conflict, each with (presumably)
at least one race of inhabitants – any one of which could have
come to Earth to colonize years ago. These races could be of
common decent, or there could be many variations. We know from
White Room that the alien that was studied had a cerebral
cortex similar to ours (humans), that did not have a bone
structure like ours – thus, the shock that Max did. Could the
similarities that the alien had be due to a common ancestor to
humans – one that traveled to Earth many years ago either
colonizing Earth or intermingling with the humans here. We
don’t know for sure that the alien that was studied was a
shapeshifter – we just assume it was, but it could have been
another alien, different from the shapeshifters, that was on
board the ship (or another ship that crashed.) We also know
that the Skins (who are NOT Skins on Antar – only on Earth –
so how did Nasedo know what they called themselves?) share
powers common to the pod squad whose powers are all human. Why
are these powers so similar if they don’t have a common
ancestry? Does this mean that the beings that are Skins are
from the same race of beings that the essences of the podsters
are from? Will humans – like Liz – be able to eventually
acquire some of these powers?
Rath sarcastically comments about how hard it is to travel
through space to Earth – thus the need to possess humans
long-distance – but the podsters obviously got here somehow
(and fairly quickly if the comments concerning the warring for
50 years is correct - I will explain this if you don’t get
what I mean – just ask) – so travel to and from Earth must be
possible and not unreasonable from a time point of view. Could
that ancient race somehow be connected to the podsters’ Antar
predecessors from long ago? Could Liz and Max have a common
ancestor – from long, long ago? (AND I’m not talking incest
here – just a common ancestor like all humans do!)
Granolith – How does it fit in?
We know that the Granolith CAN be used as a time travel
machine, but this is NOT its intended purpose. What is its
intended purpose? Whitaker and Courtney seemed to think it was
a means to their salvation – but why? It is obviously of great
importance! Could the Granolith be like a Holy Grail of the V
constellation? The “Holy Grail” was meant to be found by a man
with a pure heart who will use it to feed the hungry and heal
the sick, and with it will bring peace and happiness to the
land. So – whose heart is the purest in Roswell? Could it be
Liz? The Granolith could be like Excalibur from the King
Arthur tales, to be used as an instrument of the righteous, by
a good man (or woman) for a good cause. So – who fits that
description? Max? Did you see the reaction of the other
“leaders” when informed that Khivar was not in possession of
the Granolith, and that it was on Earth under Max’s guard? If
it is only a transport system, I doubt they would have had
such a concerned reaction – so there must be more to the
Granolith than that. Some have speculated that it might be the
energy source for a hidden ship – which it makes sense that a
ship for return to Antar would be hidden “in plain sight”
somewhere in the Roswell! But, I think it is more than a mere
power source – though maybe a power source in the Grand sense
of the term!
Could the Parkers (who have resided in Roswell for 4
generations) be the prophesized protectors of the Granolith,
or could the Indians in the area be such protectors? Liz has
yet to see the Granolith. Maybe it will react when she enters
it. Maybe Liz holds something within her that is the key to
the operation of the Granolith! Was the Granolith used by
others than FM to travel in time? Apparently Liz and future
friend Serena were the ones to make it work as a time machine
– so did others have a chance to use it this way before their
discovery? So, many questions – still! … ! The speculation
continues! Oh, AND Why hasn’t Max asked Liz point blank how
she knew about the importance of the Granolith?! Umm…..
Destiny – Liz and Max!
Though much is made of Max’s Destiny being Tess {I’m no
longer going to use the snake sign for Tess since attending a
Reptile seminar and learning Snakes are our friend! Anyone
have a sign for a rat?}, many of us wonder if Liz is actually
his Destiny due to the use of the Human DNA and where it came
from, or some past alien connection or other prophecy. The use
of that human DNA could have totally altered the previously
“planned” destiny. There is also much thought given to whether
the alien Max played out his original “destiny” on Antar when
killed in the conflict that envelopes that place, and that now
has an entire new “destiny” that includes Liz – one that could
not have been anticipated by his home planet creators OR well
planned out knowing that a “human” alliance would be necessary
to save both the podsters’ people and the human race. Many
posters have wondered “Why?” send the Hybrid pod squad (in
duplicate form) to Earth if there wasn’t some benefit to being
Human and on Earth. Obviously, distance from their home planet
was not one of the benefits. Could the Max/Liz alliance be
foretold in an ancient Indian or alien prophecy? (One of my
personal favorite theories! Is she the necessary “5th Element
– see below.) This would explain Ava’s reaction. Maybe she had
“heard” the prophecy? (I am ignoring the cut scenes that
Rooney posted that explained that the Dupe’s shapeshifter had
warned that anyone they brought back would be changed, not
necessarily for the better, because if it is not aired, it
might not be the way the writers/producers have decided to
take the show.) Zan’s “searching for someone” that Ava spoke
briefly about, also seems to imply that he felt someone
special was out there that he was meant to connect with –
maybe Liz or Serena – I guess we will never know unless he is
“brought back” somehow.
Most of us draw a clear distinction between someone’s
“destiny” and “duty.” We – mostly – also believe that by using
human DNA for the pod squad, and the fact that they were
raised as humans, brings the issue of “free choice” into play.
The continuing debate of “nature” vs. “nurture” also comes up
here – and is a hot topic in the news right now with the
publishing of the Genome Project! And is the pod squad’s
“nature” completely “alien” given that all their powers are
(supposedly) “human” according to Harding. (I’m not going to
get into it in this Intro – but the fact that the Skin’s
powers are similar to the pod squads’ powers – which are
advanced human powers – which are supposed to be similar to
the powers they had on Antar seems to imply that humans must
be capable of the these powers someday and have a common
ancestor with the Skins and pod squaders in the distant past –
Ummm …! )
Watching the difference between the two pod groups truly
brings the Nurture element to the forefront. There has also
been an excellent analysis of what “essence” truly means, and
can a being’s destiny or soul follow the transfer of one’s
essence. Could the essence of one being have been split
between two beings – Max and Liz (and Zan)? Also, does one’s
memory follow one’s essence? Tess seems to think it does, but
… why is she the only one with these memory retrieval
abilities among the podsters and her memory retrieval does not
seem very complete! (None of us are too fond or trusting of
Tess :rat: , and that distrust only seems to be increasing
with time – though TPTB seem to be softening her character
with the Kyle interaction!) Though the Dupes do seem to have
memories of their past lives – at least Lonnie appears to - we
do not know how much of this was taught them by their
shapeshifter. Also, are the visions Max’s previous alien
being’s memories (like that flash of a weird head he gets
before confronting Brody), or are they coming from someone
(i.e., Tess, another shapeshifter) or somewhere (i.e.,
Granolith, Antar) else? We now know Max has the V formation
(the royal seal) tattooed on his brain! What else is stored
deep within him, and can he get to the point he will be able
to freely access and prevent having it MRd out of him? AND
what is stored deep within Liz, waiting for the appropriate
time to be released??
There have also been many wonderful discussions concerning
what "destiny" truly means, and how the environment (the
"nurture" argument) can affect one's destiny. Also, is history
“destined” to repeat itself – an important issue now with the
introduction of the Vilandra storyline and the small amount of
what we know of past podster actions. Liz has prevented the
past from repeating itself in MITC - Zan was killed through
treachery on Antar, then New Zan was killed through treachery
again in NY, but Max (a Zan Hybrid) survived due to Liz’s new
found power and intervention! As Future Max emphasized, and
Max has commented many times: “We make our own Destiny!” Maybe
yes, maybe no?? Maybe they make their own destiny with a
little help from their Human Friends!
Follow Your Heart
Following one’s heart has been a focus in both seasons.
Grandma Claudia told Liz to promise to always follow her heart
wherever it leads her (LN), and then Liz followed her heart
and believed Max when Tess showed up on the scene (TLV). Maria
tells Max to follow his heart (AN), like all the great leaders
have. Does this mean that by following their hearts Max and
Liz will not only turn out to be great leaders, but will
eventually be led back to one another? Given the current
strain on their relationship, Max will have to follow his
heart in order to be led back to Liz. He has already begun the
journey with his decision to be her friend once again (MITC
and ARCC). He has even stated that he believes in Liz, and
though this is meant more in a friendly way than a romantic
way, it is a sign that Max is following his heart back to her!
But Liz’s heart seems to be in a state of confusion with the
introduction of Sean! But maybe, just maybe, her interactions
with Sean will only convince her heart more than ever that Max
is her true soulmate!
Symbolism – WE Do Not Ignore Anything!
The symbolism throughout the both seasons is incredible –
whether meant to be or not! (WE love the Set Decorators! ) I
can only touch on some of it here, but here are some examples.
Max changes his cards from a royal pair to two diamonds so
that Liz’s Dad (who is asking Max what he is hiding!) can win
the round of cards. The two diamonds have popped up again
recently on the beer Michael holds in Sof47, and prominently
in the background at the Deluca Residence! Are Max and Liz the
two diamonds hiding in plain sight? Is it “in the cards” as
Lonnie says? Once you notice it, the diamond shape shows up
often and everywhere (e.g., Valenti’s front door, Michael’s
wallpaper).
Eagles and horses also seem to show up often – and again,
we can tie them to Liz and Max – the most notable example
being the Indian myth that states that the eagle feather needs
both sides to be “in balance.” Max and Liz must follow their
hearts to each other to find that connection and balance! Liz
could be the Trojan Horse in which something of great
importance is hidden. There is a prominent picture of a Ship
between Max and Maria when they are discussing his love for
Liz. The old Scandinavian tale of the ghost-ship, on which
Wagner based his score "The Flying Dutchman," symbolizes the
quest for fidelity in love. In desperation the Dutchman
wanders the seas, hoping to meet the woman who will be
eternally faithful. Senta, emotionally absorbed by the same
ideal, swears that she will be faithful to the Dutchman unto
death. However, in doing so, she betrays her fiancé Birk and
suffers the same damnation as the Dutchman she was trying to
save. The Dutchman puts out to sea, but his vessel founders,
while Senta leaps from the rocks and is drowned. HOWEVER - the
pair are now seen RISING from the now-CALMED waters,
TRANSFIGURED and REDEEMED by their SACRIFICE. Salvation is not
a impossibly idealistic dream, but exists in the courageous
acceptance of reality.
Red roses (love) are thrown by Max to Liz, than changed to
White roses (peace) at the last minute in an episode (TEOTW)
that Liz must sacrifice her love for Max to ensure peace on
Earth. Yvonne “White” was the nurse that disappears in Summer
of ’47. And there is another White that shows up on the
Silverhandprint site! Max lights a “white” pinecone in ARCC.
The ancient Greeks and Assyrians viewed the pinecone as a
symbol of masculinity because of its phallic shape, and it
represented both fertility and immortality. As the emblem of
Artemis, it represented feminine purity. It was also the
emblem of the Roman goddess Venus. In Christianity, the
pinecone forms the crown of the Tree of Life. Because of its
swirling form, it is associated with dynamic generative and
cosmic power. Here we see Venus is mentioned and also the Tree
of Life (remember the women on the reservation told Liz that
was what the symbol was on the necklace) also feminine purity
seems to play an important role for Liz at this point. (Thanks
Evid!) (And this is just the tip of the iceberg! We go on for
pages about this stuff!)
Then there is the Dragon that has been prominent on Liz’s
window this season – though it was present last season. We
were in the "year of the dragon." Here are some Dragon
“meanings”: · In the Chinese Horoscope, the Dragon is in
the FIFTH ranking order. · The Dragon's corresponding
western sign is ARIES. · The Dragon’s ruling planet is
VENUS. Although Liz herself doesn't seem to be born in
Year of the Dragon, it does seem the Dragon symbolism is most
often made with her and only her (unless dragons have been
popping up on other characters’ windows?). But since it was
the year she discovers that she had “powers,” it is reasonable
to think of her as being “reborn” in the Year of the Dragon …
as the Dragon. (Thank You Meloudious 1, Starbox and
Bluecornmoon, Charmed Kitten for your thoughts on the Dragon!)
Then there is the Arthur C. Clarke book, “Childhood’s End”
that is found in “Four Squares” (Thanks reguru!). Following is
a summary written by a reader on Amazon – a coincidence? “It
is ...in this book the "Overlords" are a mysterious, powerful,
but ultimately tragic group of beings that have vastly potent
minds, but that cannot undergo the spiritual metamorphosis
that would take them into direct communion with the sort of
Godhead that directs their (and human) destiny. I liked
Clarke's ideas about utopia, which is more or less what the
Earth becomes after a few generations under the guidance of
the Overlords. He seems to have had a lot of fun playing with
ideas about future art forms, for example, among other things.
However, this utopian society is doomed, because of an
unforeseen, quantum leap in evolution, that turns out to be an
evolution of the communal spirit. Clarke has a lot to say here
about what connects us to each other, as human beings. Are we
all linked with some higher being at the level of spirit, in
the manner that islands would be revealed to be all linked, if
one were to somehow drain the world's oceans? Or is striving
toward a planned, ordered, social utopia, with allowances made
for developing all of every individual's gifts to the fullest
possible degree, the best way to relate to each other?...”
Interesting?? Stars show up often, both the five-pointed
and the six-pointed star. It turns out that the six-pointed
star, which is often linked to Judaism, has many other
meanings. In the Middle Ages, for example, alchemists used it
to symbolize the "quintessence," and "quintessence" is another
word for "fifth element." Alchemists also believed that the
symbol of two overlapping lines with four arms of equal length
had special meaning:
or
And we do see
variations of this symbol in Roswell:
and
(It's
hard to see it here, but look at the spaces between the
squares) Alchemists believed while each arm stood for an
element (earth, water, fire, air), the point at which the
lines of they intersected represented the fifth element. From
their point of view, the fifth element was basically the
intangible thing that makes up a human soul. Remember when Max
tells Liz in Destiny: "Knowing you has made me human." In
certain branches of science the diagonal cross symbolizes
crossbreeding (hybridization) between two species or races. It
is sometimes associated with Christ, and in ancient Chinese,
it stood for the number 5. (Thanks Czech Please!)
There are lots of other symbols and clues to pick up on!
Coincidence?? Probably some are, but not all of them – JK and
RM are too intelligent and clever for that!
The “Bride” – will the real one please stand up!
In the Mom‘ogram, many have wondered if the reference to
Max’s young “bride” has to be to Tess (The Evil Shape Shifter
– Grace Kel )? OR could it be referring to Liz who was also
standing right there? AND Why do they always use the word
“bride”? Was the marriage never completed, or were they killed
on the day of the wedding? (Larak – one of the alien leaders
mentioned attending Max’s wedding, and never mentioned that
the slaughter occurred that day, and never acknowledged Tess
as Max’s mate!) Though many seem to accept that “bride”
probably is referring to Tess, many wonder why they would send
his bride with Max in the first place? Was Tess sent solely to
provide a “mate” for Max (please – no gagging allowed on this
thread), or was there another purpose for her presence? Why
send a mate, unless the goal was to produce offspring and
successors to the throne. What if Tess was sent to deceive the
enemy, and the Real Bride was sent in a separate ship – and
somehow the Real Bride’s essence ultimately ended up in Liz.
Future Max states that the 4 podsters made a complete unit
that needed to be kept together because of their different
gifts were needed to defeat the enemy. Maybe Tess is a
warrior, led to believe she was the bride, when she really
wasn’t. (Bad Boy Harding!!) And why make it so complicated? Do
the Dupes have identical powers as their twin counterparts, or
different powers? Why did they kill off one of their “unit” if
it weakens them? Since their shapeshifter seemed to teach them
so much, wouldn’t they have known the importance of keeping
the unit together? There is also the question of whether the
Mom’ogram is authentic, or a projection from Tess? (Did the
Dupes see a similar projection previously or at the same time?
They never mention seeing a Mom’ogram.) It was hard to tell
when Tess’ projections/illusions left off and reality began.
Was the Mom’ogram pre-recorded like a video tape (in which
case – is Antar still in existence, or has it been destroyed
by war or natural consequences? Apparently, it survives with
Khivar in power – but with much “bloodshed”), or was it a
direct communication with the home planet or a hidden
spaceship (hidden by the V formation?) housing the heads of
the allied forces?
The Books – WHY Doesn’t anyone read these things?
Concerns similar to those raised about the Mom’ogram have
been raised about the “book” found by Tess with respect to its
authenticity and reliability. Why does the book only include
the four podsters now that we know there were two sets of pods
and duplicates? And why do the pictures look just like our
grown Roswell podsters and not their punkish Dupes? Did the
Dupes receive a similar book? What is the meaning of the
symbol on the front? The (.) symbol is of significance,
meaning the Black Moon and representing Lillith (you have to
read Starbox’s post about the relationship of Adam, Eve and
Lillith to understand – but it is significant!). If this book
is an instruction or operations manual for the pod squad, why
have they not deciphered it by now? Why does Max have writing
on his forehead, but no one else does?
Could Grandma Claudia’s book – which is in Liz’s possession
(we assume) - help decode the alien’s book and shed light on
the aliens’ connection to the Indians, an ancient alien race
or others in the area? If the alien book is authentic, how did
the aliens know exactly what the pod squad would look like
when they grew up? Were they “engineered” to that degree of
precision (with tattoos on their brains), and if so, why use
human form? Why was the Earth chosen?? (Lots of discussion re:
DNA, cloning, etc. - very interesting! ) Is there is any
information in Whitaker’s files about translating the book, or
resolving some of the mysteries surrounding the podsters?? WHY
DID IT Take the announced death of Whitaker to get them to
finally go through her files!!!! AND WHY DIDN’T THEY ASK
COURTNEY AND AVA MORE QUESTIONS!!! (Sorry …a bit of a rant!)
SCOOBY GANG - READ THE BOOKS! READ THE FILES! ASK MORE
QUESTIONS!
The Catalyst – Liz!
Liz is also viewed – when the episodes are re-watched
(multiple times by some of us! And in slow motion with a
jog-shuttle! We fondly call this “Grace Kelled” ) – as a
critical element to moving the plot along. She is the one who
often initiates the actions that help unravel the aliens’
mythology or saves the day (e.g., thinking of the plan to
throw Valenti off the trail in the Pilot, finding the way out
of the hidden room at Atherton’s place, making the initial
contact with River Dog, going to Valenti to seek help in
rescuing Max, identifying where the skeleton would be taken,
potentially sacrificing her future with Max to prevent Tess
from leaving and the future take-over of the Earth, figuring
out how the humans had disappeared and how to bring them back,
connecting with Max to save his life in NY, coming up with the
idea that helps Max restore his balance in ARCC and figuring
out the Blue Goop is a parasite, etc.). Liz is a Leader that
takes action when it is needed, and is the intellect that
comes up with the plan. (Future Liz was the one that sent FM
back in time, and Liz was the one to come up with the plan to
make Max “fall out of love with her.”) The Pod Squad would be
no where without Liz!
Vision Quest – How does Liz fit in?
Liz could possibly be the equivalent to Max – whom we now
know is the once and future leader of his people – though
apparently of questionable abilities and judgment. (Who knows
who and what to believe on this one??) Could Liz be the human
equivalent of Max that is here to help Max save the human
race, as well as free the pod squad’s people? Again – Does
Liz’s connection “complete” or complement Max, and bring him
into “balance”? Max seems to believe that Liz is his voice of
reason, and knows him better than anyone else – even Iz! (We
learn this from the JK and JB commentary on ARCC.) Could Liz
possess part of Max’s alien essence? Is Liz the 5th Element,
necessary to bring power and balance to the Royal 4? Liz is
also a brain – which is relevant when we find out in the White
Room that the podsters are just very advanced humans
(approximately 3000 years ahead of us normal mortals!). Could
her intelligence (combined with her connection with Max) mean
that she has the potential to obtain more of the “powers” that
the pod squad have? Many had expressed that they would NOT be
surprised if Liz would be capable of some advanced powers in
the future, and that her visions may be just a precursor to
these. NOW WE KNOW LIZ HAS POWERS (astral projection, at
least) – just not the extent of those powers, whether they are
still developing (probably!), and how the visions play into
her powers! Will she be the one able to see the evil within as
the Mom’ogram says the podsters will have to be able to do? Is
that what she was "seeing" when she kissed Harding/Evil Max?
Does she only get visions while kissing or in a state of
heightened emotion (i.e., the hand touching in SH in Chemistry
class; arm touch in Ask Not – did you notice the first vision
was of traveling through space)? The aliens supposedly get
such visions sometimes according to Max in Missing – remember
the vision he got of Kyle in Liz’s bedroom and the visions Iz
gets in Surprise (though those may have been “projected”
visions from Tess to get Iz’s attention for help). And why did
Max have visions that belonged to Liz when he was being MRd by
Nicholas? Is their connection that strong? Max seemed to get
visions from those closest to him – Iz, Mikey G and Liz –
while being MRd, but none from Tess – his supposed mate. Why?
AND when is he going to get a vision of FM and what Liz has
sacrificed?
All of Liz’s visions have been examined in-depth, and it is
hard to summarize (is that what I’m doing?? Opps! ) all the
thoughts here. We also now know that Kyle did not get visions
from Max during Kyle’s healing – which is not huge, but goes
to the question - WHY is LIZ the ONLY human to have VISIONS?
Is this one of her new “powers”? Not only has she been able to
“see into Max’s soul,” but also she has seen travels through
space and a distant galaxy, the crash on Earth, and her
visions were the reason the second communicator was
discovered. Many feel these visions were not coming from Max,
but from an outside source – or a source INTERNAL to Liz just
“now” being released or awakened. Some of the visions seemed
to be from the perspective of the communicator itself or an
alien hiding it (a deep breathing – out-of-breath alien). Some
wonder if others - aliens? - have observed Liz for some time.
The shot came from two “strangers” who mention – “We have to
get rid of her” – in the background (listen carefully while
Liz shows the alien picture to the tourist couple) right
before she is shot. Was her shooting intentional – and if so,
WHY (and by whom – shapeshifters, time travelers, other
aliens)?? Why would anyone (or any being) "watch" Liz prior to
the shooting unless she has an importance we are not aware of
yet (though we suspect, and TEOTW & MITC seem to confirm
somewhat)? And who’s eyes are we seeing through watching Liz
and Maria at the beginning of Wipe Out? The same eyes that
watched Max at school and Harding by his car in the alley? The
vision seems similar to that Liz gets in SH when she “sees”
the orb being buried. Could this be Tic Tac - another alien
that we believe has been watching them – Liz included? (I do
not believe that Harding, Nasedo and Tic Tac were all one and
the same shapeshifter!) Could his blurred vision be the result
of testing he was subjected to, and the tic tacs pills that he
takes to maintain his “balance”?
Time Travel – “Run, Lola, Run”
Now that we know that time-travel is possible, has it come
into play already in a way we are not aware of – yet? Could
this we the THIRD time around, similar to “Run, Lola, Run” –
which was mentioned in Surprise as the story of Liz’s life?
(First scenario being Liz doesn’t get shot and rescued by Max,
thus they never connect and she never develops her powers, the
second being Liz gets shot and marries Max at age 19 but fails
to develop her powers fully due to the premature cementing,
and the third being the path we are on now!) Watch the movie,
and see what you think! Do Liz and Max have more than one
chance to get things “right” – and ultimately, to be together
in peace and harmony? Also, catch the four square symbol on
the door with the swirl through it – the same as in the Season
2 promos? OH – and what will Liz do with the knowledge she now
has from FM concerning the Granolith – she did warn Max before
he so rudely left for NY, and that warning prevented him from
turning it over to the other aliens - and the potential for
Tess to leave or turn evil (by not helping the podsters)?
Won’t someone (Max in particular!) wonder how she knows these
things? Her knowledge concerning the Granolith has already
begun to bug Max – it has to eat at him now that he knows she
has been changed! Does he really “know” as Kyle seems to think
Max always does? Why isn’t he asking Liz about her the source
of her knowledge??
Hero Journey – Liz’s Path
[The following is a summary of what BehrAll pulled together
on another thread, and I’m applying it to LIZ! I thank all who
may have contributed to this originally, and apologize for not
mentioning your name. I believe the bulk of the following was
quoted from NyLoN? And that Czech please also contributed to
the post.] The Hero's Journey is perhaps the most famous
method of storytelling ever. First used by Homer, it was given
'shape' by Joseph Campbell in the 20th century. It has been
the basis for many of the most famous and popular works of
fiction.
The Hero's Journey is a series of stages that a heroine
must go through during her adventure. The stages are flexible
in that they are not clearly defined, and Campbell admits that
one need not follow all the stages for it to be a true
journey. The Hero's Journey (HJ) does not apply to an entire
plotline, but rather to a character or several characters and
their evolution throughout a series. In our case, we believe
that Liz is in the process of the HJ. Following are the HJ
stages with references of how it applies to Liz (which I
added): 1. Call to Adventure - The heroine must first be
forcibly drawn into the adventure, this occurs from a normal
occurrence and not something strange or supernatural. Liz’s
healing after being shot would be such an event. 2.
Threshold Guardian - The heroine must face a minor obstacle
that blocks her way to the adventure. Okay – there are more
obstacles that Liz has faced than I can mention here, but
being a small-town girl who is human may be the initial minor
obstacle. 3. Wise and Helpful Guide - The inexperienced
heroine must find a guide who will aid her with advice and
materials that will be instrumental in her journey. I’m not
sure who this could be – Grandma Claudia seems the obvious
choice, but River Dog could be on too. But this goes along
with my belief that someone is watching over Liz. 4. Into
the Labyrinth - The heroine must step out into the unknown and
the “den of evil.” Getting involved with Max was stepping into
the unknown. Working to defeat the enemy is stepping into the
“den of evil.” 5. Heroic Deeds - The heroine must engage
in mortal combat, often sacrificing something or someone for
the further good to continue her quest. Liz has faced death –
think escape from the FBI Special Unit – and sacrificed her
own “happy” future with Max in TEOTW for the greater
good. 6. Trials - The midway point of the hero's journey is
marked by a series of trials, ordeals, tests and obstacles.
7. Into the Belly of the Beast - A popular occurrence is
the literal swallowing of the heroine by some great beast.
This often marks the entrance to a mythical world where a
great transformation occurs. However, in most works the belly
of the beast is a metaphor for a stronghold of the enemy. Okay
– Liz had to confront the Skins before disappearing, and there
are probably other examples out there. 8. Sacrifices - The
opening of the mind and heart of the heroine requires her be
prepared to (or in some cases does) sacrifice something of
great import to her. Okay, think TEOTW – need I say more???
9. Atonement - The hero's journey sometimes includes a
"father (or mother?) quest." After many trials and ordeals,
the heroine finds her father and becomes "at one" with him.
(Note, occasionally this step is eliminated to create 13
stages.) Since we don’t know the circumstances of Liz’s birth,
we assume that her dad is her true dad, but …. 10. Return
- The heroine then returns to her home with newfound powers,
knowledge or ability to benefit her people. Liz does have
newfound powers, but … Maybe this is for Season 3?? 11.
Return of Evil - The heroine is not the only one who is
reborn, the forces of evil also reform and come anew. Okay –
this could happen numerous times over the course of Roswell!
12. Enchanted Forest - The inhabitants of the enchanted
forest are strange creatures who can be both helpful and
dangerous. The heroine must know how to get them to aid her on
her quest. (Note, this is the second most likely step to be
removed to create 13 stages.) Liz has already “befriended” Ava
– definitely a “strange creature, and Ava added Liz’s quest to
save Max. I would see Liz as instrumental in working with
other creatures to seek their assistance. 13. Heart of
Darkness - The heroine must enter the center of power for evil
in order to destroy it or its' leader. This definitely could
happen in future episodes! I can see her ability to see the
evil within (if that proves true) coming in useful
there. 14. Final Victory and Journey's End - In the end the
heroine triumphs over evil and brings forth something new, be
it enlightenment, power, understanding or a whole new society.
Is there any doubt!!!
Liz’s relationship with Max is
key in her journey, but it isn't the only issue she's dealing
with (or needs to deal with!). The Hero's Journey can be
physical or emotional. An emotional journey, such as usually
occurs in a romance, takes the protagonist from her normal
state of affairs and challenges her ideas, beliefs and current
existence. A proactive protagonist responds to such
challenges, undergoing tests of her moral fiber and emotional
strength. Frequently she will have to examine all that she has
believed to be true before a major confrontation. It is here
that she pulls victory from disaster. And it is here that she
seeks to return to normalcy. Many writers believe this is the
end of the journey. But it isn't. TEOTW as probably Liz’s
"major confrontation" since it was her actions here that
pulled "victory from disaster." The future was changed and (we
assume) the events FM warned her of do not come to pass. At
this point, she knows all she has gone through with (and for)
Max has changed her, but believes that part of her life is
over now. Liz is hoping that things can be relatively normal
again, and has been trying to resume the life she had before
Max. But as we all see, she will, of course, be unsuccessful.
The issue at the heart of Liz's HJ, the thing that she must
overcome, is the myth of her own insignificance. She believes
firmly in her ability to control her own destiny, but often
dismisses the notion that she is any more than an obstacle to
Max's journey. She's wrong, of course! In TEOTW, we learn that
it is their love that damns them and those they care about.
This is huge! Liz's romance, her emotional connection,
determines the fate of the world. And ultimately, she is the
one with the power to save everyone. Unfortunately, she
doesn't recognize this power, only the fact that she will be
alone now. Her journey isn't over yet.
Liz and Max's respective HJ's have intersected many times
already, and we believe that they will eventually merge
together. This is why many of us don't worry too much about
their couple status. Most of us believe there is much more to
Liz than we have seen and that her destiny is more important
than she could possibly imagine. We believe things she has
accepted at face value her whole life will be turned upside
down. Her ultimate sacrifice will be the belief that she is
normal. Once she accepts that she is no longer "the smallest
of small town girls," she will need to accept entirely new
perspectives and responsibilities. At that point, the HJ that
has we've seen unfold on Roswell so far will be over and
another phase in her life will begin.
Grandma Claudia – the first connection?
The picture Liz shows the tourists in the Pilot was
supposedly taken by her Grandmother at the crash before the
military arrived – a connection or just a joke as we were
supposed to think? Could GC be Yvonne White (as in “peace”)
who disappeared in Sof47, only to resurface with her new and
married name – Claudia Parker? Many have speculated about
Grandma Claudia’s involvement and her book about the Ancient
Treasures of the Navajo Indians. Could Grandma Claudia have
had contact with the aliens previously? Perhaps GC helped them
when she was younger, and they entrusted valuable information
with her just as with River Dog. Was Grandma Claudia killed
intentionally? Did she know that Liz was “special,” thus,
necessitating the early arrival and that “soulmate”
discussion? Is Liz affected or a product of one of these
earlier alien contacts? Could Liz have an alien relative –
recent or distant? There seems to be many hints connecting
ancient Indian cultures to the podsquad or other aliens,
including the Machu Picchu in Peru culture highlighted at the
UFO Museum, the continuing references to “ancient languages”
(e.g., Liz’s Blind Date Doug Shellow’s major at the UofNM and
where the aliens’ manual was hidden in the library), the
traditional Indian music in the background throughout MITC,
and Grandma Claudia’s studies. Only coincidence? We think not!
Could Liz’s review of her Grandmother’s possessions in Season
2 reveal those connections? We are hopeful! (COME ON WRITERS –
WHERE ARE THE INDIAN CONNECTIONS FROM SEASON 1? WHY ISN”T
ANYONE READING GC’s BOOK? WHERE IS THE DETECTIVE IN THE SCOOBY
GANG!!)
Lifebonds vs. Soulmates
Norma Bates & Tasyfa contributed these thoughts!
Soulmates are usually described as people being very alike in
feelings and motivation. They work very well together for
common goals. They have a connection of purpose and a
similarity in thinking. Their skills complement each others so
that together they accomplish more and are stronger/better
than if they worked individually toward the same goal. But
soulmates aren’t necessarily a permanent connection and they
could be with several people. However, Lifebonds take
"soulmate" one step further. Lifebonds are usually found in
telepathic sci-fi (Kathy Tyers' "Firebird" for example) and
fantasy genres. Before they can be lifebonded, they must be
soulmates first. They are linked together mentally,
emotionally and constantly. Lifebonds in fiction are rare and
not taken lightly. They are a permanent one on one
connection…till death do they part. The creation of a lifebond
is a matter of choice. It doesn’t just happen. Authors
sometimes use the theory that if a pair decides to lifebond,
they spend some time apart first (so don’t worry Dreamers!
;grin: ), to strengthen and stretch the bond (to change the
bond) and to contemplate on their choice. Both must agree and
be fully committed to each other. There is no divorce option
except death. Once that is done, the 2 open their connections
to each other, mind and soul, to the fullest extent and then
“cement” their relationship, making the bond permanent.
The drawbacks to life bonding includes: · If they are
separated from each other, they feel incomplete, not
whole. · Long term separation can lead to mental
instability or insanity because one balances the other’s
strengths and weaknesses emotionally and physically. · If
one of a bonded pair dies, it can cause a deep depression to
the point of suicide. The remaining survivor has trouble
adapting and balancing themselves.
Some things that lifebonds aren’t: · They are not mind
reading skills. They send strong impressions or emotions.
Right now, if Max and Liz were lifebonded, he would know she
was lying but not why unless she told him. · They are still
separate people capable of misunderstandings. · Lifebonds
cause a lot of stress and misunderstanding because they are so
close emotionally, they forget to communicate verbally. ·
Having secrets between a lifebonded pair causes a lot of
frustration and pain between them.
Could what FM is talking about in TEOTW be a hint that, not
knowing what they were doing, Liz and Max became lifebonded
too soon? Liz wasn’t going to change or be able to lifebond to
Max without first making a decision that she wanted to go
ahead with the relationship. From Destiny until TEOTW she kept
herself apart and tried to withdraw, but after seeing Madame
Vivian she changed her mind and decided to take a chance…to
start changing. Perhaps FM found out that Liz would develop
her own powers if they hadn't become lifebonded and solidified
the links so early. FM coming back and keeping her separated
allowed the connections to grow stronger. Liz needed time to
stretch the links, to change both physically and mentally, and
taking Isabel's hand in MITC was only the first step of
finding out whom she really is and what she is capable of
doing.
Sheila Hubble – Eerie resemblance to Liz! – What’s the
connection?
Another major topic of interest is Liz’s connection to
Sheila Hubble! The resemblance between the two is amazing, and
other parallels exist (e.g., pictures of both driving in an
open-air car with the wind blowing through their dark hair).
Plus, the visions that Liz receives from Max/Harding include
Hubble’s wife at the death scene – meaning it had some
significance to him. Did he kill her, or did the handprint
come from a failed attempt to save her? Were the fireworks
Hubble mentions seeing when kissing his wife the same as the
stars Liz sees when kissing Max? Could Sheila Hubble be
related to Liz somehow – an aunt, DNA donor, or was Sheila an
alien? The fact that Sheila Hubble was three months pregnant
with a girl seems to be relevant somehow – why else would they
mention it?! Could the DNA from the girl or a twin have been
used for the pod squad – Max maybe, or Tess – or for Liz? AND
why is Tess' mother's name listed as Sheila on her school
records? Everett Hubble, Ed Harding - both EH names with a
wife named Sheila - INTERESTING! Ummmm!
Speaking of connections – Is Hal Carver somehow connected
to Liz? He lives in Florida – the state Liz spent the entire
summer. Who was Liz staying with while in Florida?? He was
friends with her grandfather, Pete Parker. So, there is a
connection to Liz. Did the aliens residing in Florida
influence the vote count for the President? Do you think the
writers will introduce a character from Florida named Chad?
Ummmmm? And what happened to Hal?? Don’t you think he would
want to stay connected to the podsters now that he knows they
exist?
Venus – Liz’s connection to the stars!
Liz’s ability to “see” into Evil Max/Harding’s “soul” again
points to the possibility that she may ultimately be able to
“see the evil within.” What is it that she sees in these
visions? Sheila Hubble, Lightening, a wormhole (the Granolith
at work??), the high desert, clouds rolling in? Some see sea
foam, which is related in mythology to Venus. Is Liz the Venus
often referred to? The Venus constellation is often referred
to in connection with Liz (e.g., Max in response to Liz saying
her parents are on a trip to see Venus in the morning sky says
“I thought she was standing in front of me.”). There are too
many interesting connections for Venus not to mean anything,
and we now know the V constellation is the Royal Crest with
the home planet being the Venus Star at the bottom. Some
example of what has been turned up. (THANKS Starbox?!) Both
the Mayans and Aztecs used Venus and the Venusian cycle to
establish their calendars. Venusian years are grouped in
cycles of 5. (Were podster people here to assist those
cultures/civilizations with these developments?) Venus is
associated with the Sun - she is his twin. (Is there a Max/Sun
connection too?) Venus is seen as an intermediary between the
Sun and mankind. Venus has a dual nature - by night she is the
goddess of love and pleasure and by day she is the goddess of
battle. In astrology - the sense of touch is one of Venus's
attributes (explains Liz's ability to receive flashes with
just a touch - also the importance of hand holding again).
Venus is the guardian spirit of horses. Venus is associated
with "sensual feelings, instinctive attraction, intoxication
(maybe that’s why that kiss sobered Max up – restored the
balance), SMILES, seduction, charm, beauty and grace." Plus,
Venus and Serena make an awesome doubles combination – tennis
anyone! Also, there is one part of Venus – the planet - that
is named after a male...the highest point on Venus, standing
at 11 km, and the largest mountain range, the Maxwell Montes!
(Thanks Nemo, WR, Starstruck, et al.)
Some new findings connecting to Venus include - Liz
considers the smell of sulfur as “being home.” Venus has
sulfur as a predominant chemical in its atmosphere. “The first
time I walked into a chemistry lab and smelled that smell –
the sulfur – I felt like I was home.” (Monsters) Is this part
of an alien essence or past? (Thanks StarBox!) Also, Venus is
hot and dry. Its atmosphere is mostly carbon dioxide, a
greenhouse gas. Its upper atmosphere contains sulphuric acid.
Venus rotates very slowly (once every 243 earth days) in the
direction opposite to most of the other planets and opposite
to the motion of all of the planets around the sun. Its solar
day is 116 days long. Venus goes around the sun once every 225
days. StarBox, Bluecornmoon and Zara conducted the following
analysis - 225 (245?) days after Feb. 20 (SH) was October 25,
the day of the Gomez' concert (TEOTW). The next "mating" cycle
for Max and Liz will be June 23rd, 2001! As for Liz and Max's
"need" for each other - It's not time yet!
Numbers – It all adds up to Liz and Max!
Could it be that the 4 squares (pod squad) + plus the fifth
star being Liz “complete” the constellation? There were 5
healing stones – Why? The numbers 1, 4 and 5 seem to pop up
often – why? We now know that there are 5 planets involved,
but … Even the communication was done on 5/14 – those numbers
again! TEOTW occurs in 2014! Some have found a connection
between these numbers to Venus in astronomy and mythology, or
could it be 1 for Liz, and 4 for the pod squad? Could Liz be
the 5th Element foretold in prophecy (thus, Zan’s search and
Ava’s reaction), and that is necessary to the success of the
podsters? Or are these numbers just some writer’s favorite
apartment number or address? It has been noted that 4
represents “Potential,” while 5 represents “Balance” and
“Marriage between Heaven and Earth.” Ummmmm! We also have the
evil aliens’ beeper that is a pentagon – 5 sided. The same
shape as Atherton’s ceiling. Any connection? The number 2 has
also been cropping up a lot lately – 2 as in Max and Liz or as
in duplicates? Next time you watch ARCC, notice the house
addresses for Brody and the Ghost’s family, and it’s the 23rd
Annual celebration. They all add up to 5! On the
Silverhandprint, notice the crime report for Liz’s shooting.
The Crashdowns address and the time of the shooting all
include 2, 3 and 4s! Someone is sending us a message – maybe
it is that we are all nutty!
Cave Map Symbols – All signs lead to Liz?
And what significance does the cave map have to Liz's
connection to the podsters? A number of the symbols in the
cave “map” have raised some interesting analysis! What do they
represent, and is Liz represented somehow - like one of the
"dots" in the series of five boxes, one of which is open with
the dot outside? This symbol recently arose again in Max’s
visions in Wipe Out. Some have tried to identify each of the
symbols and draw a correlation between the symbols and the
various characters with some fascinating results! We also
begun to analyze the symbols that were “flashed” in the promos
for Season 2 – you definitely have to Grace Kel them or you
miss them. Redhawk has done some wonderful screen caps of
these for us to analyze! Is Liz the connection that holds the
four squares together? See the discussion of lines and stars
above!
The symbol on the necklace that leads to the cave looks
like a yin/yang symbol. Audrey11 contributed the following -
yin and yang have some references to things that have been
discussed. This is a brief list of what they represent, mostly
in reference to previous discussions. Yin - conceived of
as earth, female, present in even numbers, valleys and
streams, represented by the tiger, the color orange and a
broken line. Yang - conceived of as heaven, male, present
in odd numbers, mountains, represented by the dragon, the
color azure and an unbroken line. The concept of yin-yang
in Chinese thought is associated with 5 elements: metal, wood,
water, fire and earth, this idea lends substance to the
characteristically Chinese belief in a cyclical theory of
becoming and dissolution and an interdependence between the
world of nature and human events.
Skins – What lies below the surface?
We now know that the "evil" aliens that we are aware of
(there could be others) – Skins - came from the pod squad's
planet, but are part of a civil war/revolution - therefore,
seem to have similar characteristics and powers to the
podsters – but it is not clear what all those powers are,
except that shapeshifting does not seem to be one of them.
They seemed to be confined to their husks, but they could be
from the same race as the pod squad’s alien predecessors. Many
of us think that the pod squad’s people had to have visited
Earth before - maybe many times! Could other pods have been
planted on Earth at a time separate from the 1947 crash? When
would they have had time to construct the elaborate pod
chamber with the hidden Granolith? And why put the Dupes in
the sewers of NY? Yuck – I agree with Nicko on this one – at
least with respect to the sewer aspect! :frown: How did the
“mother bear” get those pods from NM to NY without being
noticed? And, why did those podsters end up looking like
punks? What happened to their shapeshifter/guardian, and why
were Rath and Lonnie so protective of the information? How did
the Skins – Nicko - find the Dupes? And could some of these
earlier alien visits have some connection to Grandma C or
someone else in Liz’s family? Was the ’47 crash caused by the
evil aliens, or another ship of the “good” aliens? How long
have the evil and good aliens been visiting or aware of Earth?
Apparently the Skins originally arrived in 1950, but did they
visit at another time? And what have they been up to on these
visits? Brody was supposedly healed by aliens who abducted
him, and now use his body for possession/visitations. Why? And
are there another race or groups of aliens on Earth ? And, why
in the world pick Earth to hide the podsters – in human form,
with human DNA – unless, Earth, and the humanity it represents
is essential to the podsters survival? Is that why the “more
human” podsters were given possession of the Granolith? Once
again, this would tie in Liz’s importance as a human –
possibly the “chosen” human to assist in their survival – the
5th Element (I like this theory – can you tell ).
Shapeshifters – Are there more than one?
Most of us also think that there are more than one alien
“watching” the pod squad, and that the tic-tac popping alien
(AKA Tic Tac) (i.e., Hank-killer, one that found them asleep
in the desert, and Dr. M impersonator, yet to show up in
Season 2) is a different alien, possibly watching out for them
(we hope!), than Harding/Nasedo (assuming Harding is Nasedo).
And what about the person who burns their picture at the end
of Blind Date - another alien or one of the above two? Some
wonder if Tess, Doug Shellow, Pierce and/or Deputy Owen might
be a shapeshifter, or evil aliens? There is a wonderful
observation of the different ways Harding and Tic Tac
shapeshift and the different colored light involved! Many feel
that Tic Tac is a good alien watching over the podsters, but
maybe he is watching over Liz, too! Some wonder if Tic Tac
switched the orb in the desert before Liz and Max woke up? If
he did, why? The orbs have become a significant focus of
discussion – how are they connected to the alignment of the
constellations, or to the pod squad, or to the evil aliens?
Also – what was with the “visit” during Into The Woods? (Did
you notice that FM appears with a lightning strike just like
in ITW?) Was it a spaceship that left the marking, or a single
alien? As far as the color analysis goes, generally yellow
seems to represent – or be present – evil, and blue seems to
represent good – though this is not always true. And then,
there is always the green cells and occasional glow, and the
red that seems to be present throughout Surprise! And where is
Tic Tac so far in Season 2?? I can’t believe he and Harding
were one and the same. Maybe Tic Tac was the Dupes’
shapeshifter who came back to Roswell.
Harding’s connection to Liz has been pondered often!
Recently with the discovery of Liz’s change, many have
wondered why Harding didn’t know about the change and mention
it. Especially after reading the cut scenes from MITC. If Ava
knew, Harding should have known and mentioned it. Of course,
there are the long lingering questions like: Why was he so
eager to kiss Liz – not just in the car, but also in bus after
“saving” her? (Horny alien? ) Why did he save Liz and not Max
from the house of mirrors? Could he have been Sheila Hubble’s
lover or had some other strong connection to her, with a later
connection to Liz? Could he have known Grandma Claudia? Could
GC been connected to Sheila Hubble somehow? Harding did
nothing – we know of – to harm Liz, but MANY are suspicious of
his intentions, and his apparent failure to divulge
information about Liz and the podsters’ origins. Was his sole
reason for being on Earth to protect the podsquad – an
official “worker bee”? And what did he do for all those years
before Tess hatched? Some feel he was a bad alien using Tess
to infiltrate the pod squad. Again, why didn’t he give them
more information about themselves, Liz, the Dupes and what he
had been up to? Why did Harding have such a large collection
of antiques, which he was so sensitive about? Had he been
around when they were original manufactured – years ago? There
are so many questions he could have answered for the podsters
before he was wasted! And was the fact that Liz was NOT
present at the attempt to heal Harding the reason the healing
failed? Maybe Liz is somehow necessary to make the stones work
– part of the Balance? Was Harding responsible for Liz’s
“great opportunity” in Congresswoman Whitaker’s office? If
not, who was the connection there?
Odds and Ends
Some have noted the reoccurrence of handholding as
symbolizing the connection between Max and Liz and the other
podsters. Handholding has great significance in the Roswell
High books as a form of joining energy, and we believe it does
in the show too. The V constellation also looks like the
joining of two hands. Also, in The Balance much is made of Max
reaching out his hand to pull Michael from the pit, and M/I/M
walking away holding hands. We wonder what would have happened
in Harvest if Liz had stepped forward to join her power with
Max instead of Tess – who did not seem to help at all. Iz held
Liz’s hands to help her connect to Max – though it appeared to
be slowly Liz’s powers that caused the connection. And who
could miss Max grabbing Liz’s hand at mid-night mass and
telling Liz, “I believe in you!” in ARCC!
Another recent development – the disintegration of Skin
when picked up. Why did it not disintegrate when Maria picked
it up, but did when the podsters and Liz picked it up? Could
be moisture content, but it could be the energy generated by
the person holding it. Does Liz generate energy similar to the
podsters?
Dates
Finally – dates seem to be of interest to those on this
thread. So, following is a rundown of dates as I’ve been able
to gather them from episodes and factual research. I include
them up-front for easy reference, but I would love to add
dates of relevance you come across – PM me if you have one. I
have added dates from the Silverhandprint site, but they don’t
always jive with the episodes, so take them with a grain of
salt.
1903 – James Atherton born (according to Crashdown
Timeline) 1911 - James Atherton born in TN (according to
285S) 1927 - Buffalo Visitation 1932 – River Dog born on
Mesaliko Indian Reservation (Crashdown Timeline) 1933 –
Grandma Claudia born (Crashdown Timeline) 1935 – Picture of
Michael’s DNA donor? (Hybrid Chronicle’s promo) 1942 –
Deputy Owen Blackwood born on Mesaliko Indian Reservation
(Crashdown Timeline) 1/15/43 – Pentagon (think beeper
shape) completed 6/14/1947 - Crash 6/24/1947 - 9
Disklike objects spotted flying near Mt. Rainier in
WA 7/4/1947 – Milton claims the crash occurred 7/7/1947
- Farmer Brazel (from Foster Ranch) finally reports debris
from Roswell crash to sheriff, who calls Roswell Army Air
Field 7/7/1947 – Privates Timothy Mann and Frank DiMuzio
find Privates Bill Fifer and Jim McCarthy dead near crash
site. 11/14/1947 - Everet Hubble born 1949 – Special
Agent Lewis recruited to run FBI Special Unit
(Silverhandprint) 1950 – Agent Lewis mentions “butchers at
Eagle Rock” to wife [think Eagle Rock Military Base]
(Silverhandprint) 2/4/1950 – Skins arrive on Earth
(Harvest) 2/5/1950- 1st day in Skins (Whitaker
Diary) 2/13/1950 – Skins’ motor skills improving (Whitaker
Diary) 3/8/1950 - Vanessa Whitaker adopts her maiden name
Vanessa Crawford (Whitaker Diary) 7/4/1950 – Skins have
been looking for the Royal Four for three months (Whitaker
Diary) 1950? - Observation of alien held in captivity by
FBI ends (Escaped? Died?) 1951 – Phillip Evans and Sheriff
James Valenti born (Crashdown Timeline) 1952 – Diane Evans
(M&I Mom) and Special Agent Stephens born (Crashdown
Timeline) 1952 - Atherton involved in Project Blue Book
(Air Force project on aliens) 1955 - Jeff Parker born
(Crashdown Timeline) 1955 – Atherton publishes “Among Us”
(Crashdown Timeline) 10/4/1957 – Whitaker reports that
morale is low, 20% of Skins have died, and that they must find
the Granolith to go home (Whitaker Diary) 1957 – Nancy
Parker (Liz’s Mom) born (Crashdown Timeline) 1/8/1958 –
Whitaker states "How?" in her diary (Whitaker Diary) 1958 –
Milton Ross born (Crashdown Timeline) [Note – this does not
fit with him being old enough to be in the “Ice Cream Parlor
Picture” from 1959 – unless he was a VERY mature
1-year-old] 11/16/1959 - Atherton dies (murdered?) 1959
- Milton (Max's Boss) has picture with "alien" shadow next to
him outside the Ice Cream Parlor 1961 – Amy De Luca born
(Crashdown Timeline) 11/3/1962 - Whitaker writes "Still
can't talk about it.” (Whitaker Diary) 1962 - Agent Lewis -
first head of Special Unit killed in Delta, CO 2/13/1963 -
Nicolas was a general in the palace at home (Whitaker
Diary) 1964 – Agent Kathleen Topolsky born (Crashdown
Timeline) 1967 - Agent DelBianco killed in Union City,
TN 9/23/1968 - Skins are begin to peel (Whitaker
Diary) 3/23/1970 - Nicolas orders skins to "clean up" their
personal data to fit in better with humans (Whitaker
Diary) 1970 - Sheila Hubble dies (murdered?) 1972 – Silo
Murder occurs involving Hubble and Sheriff Valenti Senior (UFO
Convention) 9/13/1973 – Kathleen Ann Topolsky, future FBI
agent, born in Hartford, Connecticut 1975 – Allister
Topolsky born 1977 – Phillip and Diane Evans marry
(Crashdown Timeline) 5/14/1978 - Nicolas plans the Harvest
(Whitaker Diary) 1979 – Agent McMahon, head of FBI Special
Unit, killed (Silverhandprint) 1979 – Jeffery and Nancy
Parker marry (Crashdown Timeline) 10/15 or 25/1982 –
Isabel’s birthday (Surprise) 1983 – Michael’s
birthday? 3/15/1983 – Max’s birthday (Blood Bothers) 3
or 5/7/1983 – Tess’s birthday (I see a 5, others see 3?)(Tess,
Lies and Videotapes) 1983 – Kyle, Maria, Ales & Liz
born (Crashdown Timeline) 10/11/1984 - Nicolas tells
Whitaker to be a senator (Whitaker Diary) 1984 – Jeff
Parker opens up the Crashdown Café (Crashdown Timeline) [What
happens to Parker’s – the predecessor to the Crashdown? –
Z] 1985 – Pohlman Ranch Excavation
(Silverhandprint) 1987 – Liz wears the “Cupcake Dress” to
school in kindergarten (Crashdown Timeline) [Would make Liz an
awfully YOUNG kindergartener – maybe they start early in NM??
- Z] 1989 - Pod Squad come out of the cave (look like
6-year-olds) 1989 – Max heals pigeon in the park (Toy
House) 1989 – Kyle’s mom, Jim Valenti’s wife leaves
(Wipeout) 1990 – Maria’s Dad leaves (Sexual
Healing) 1991 – Max sees Liz for first time in 3rd grade
(Crashdown Timeline) [Again, this would be off based on their
timeline – Liz would be in 4th grade. I think Liz started K in
1988, and Max saw her for the first time the following year –
1989 - in 1st grade after he gets off the bus, BUT they did
not officially get to Know each other until 3rd grade –
Z] 1991 – UFO Museum founded (Crashdown Timeline) 1991 -
92? - Liz and Max "meet" in the 3rd grade for the first time
(but may have been in the same school before this, just didn't
meet.) 1992 - Max and Isabel "find" Michael again 1992 –
Alex meets Liz in 4th grade, but they do not become close
friends until the 5th grade (Crashdown Timeline) 1993 –
Brody abducted by aliens Fall 1993 – Topolsky graduates
from U. of Hartford, w/ BA in Psychology 11/1993 –
Topolsky’s brother Allister dies of Hodgkin’s Disease 1993
or 1994 – Laurie Dupree’s Grandfather (Michael’s DNA Donor)
dies 5/29/1994 - Vanessa Crawford marries John Whitaker,
Congressman from New Mexico (Whitaker Diary) 5/16/1996 -
John Whitaker dies in "tragic" plane crash (Whitaker
Diary) 1997 – Brody buys an alien beeper 1997 – Topolsky
graduates from U. of Michigan with PhD in
Psychology 11/15/1997 – Date on Laurie Dupree’s Psychiatric
Hospital Bag (We Are Family) 1999 - Agent Daniel Sommers,
head of FBI Special Unit, killed 5/5/1999 – Whitaker
writes about dating Pierce (Whitaker Diary) 9/17/1999 – At
3:52 pm Liz Parker is shot, and Max Evans saves Liz - and
Roswell is Born!! (Sheriff’s Report –
Silverhandprint) 9/27/1999 – The Morning After 9/27/1999
– Topolsky e-mails Stephens re: arrival in Roswell
(Silverhandprint) 9/28/1999 – Topolsky has first day at
West Roswell High (Silverhandprint) 9/30/1999 – Topolsky
e-mails Stephens re: confiscated Sheriff’s files & Michael
Guerin (Silverhandprint) Fall 1999 – Max and Liz are both
16-year-olds (Silverhandprint) 10/14/1999 – Topolsky
e-mails Suzanne Duff – obviously close friends
(Silverhandprint) 10/14/1999 – Topolsky e-mails Stephens
re: Future Week [think Profiles]
(Silverhandprint) 10/19/1999 – Leaving Normal – Grandma
Claudia visits 10/27/1999 – Topolsky e-mails Stephens re:
Alex [Even Topolsky notices the “intense” connection between
Max and Liz] (Silverhandprint) 10/28/1999 – Liz’s Journal
is found (Missing) 10/28/1999 – Liz and Max search Kyle’s
for the Journal, & Topolsky recognizes Michael’s artwork
as Atherton’s geodesic dome (Silverhandprint) 11/4/1999 –
285 South Begins (Profiles - Silverhandprint) 11/5/1999 –
Scooby Gang drives back from Atherton’s (Profiles -
Silverhandprint) 11/6/1999 – Topolsky orders a Casio Magic
Wand (Silverhandprint) 11/9/1999 – Topolsky following pod
squad to Atherton’s [Date not consistent with Profiles]
(Silverhandprint) 11/11/1999 – Topolsky describes the
incident at Atherton’s (Silverhandprint) 11/18/1999 – Max
in car accident [think Blood Brothers]
(Silverhandprint) 11/19/1999 – Topolsky’s final report
(Silverhandprint) 12/2/1999 – Heatwave hits
Roswell! 12/3/1999 – Liz and Alex wind up in jail after
party (Heatwave) 12/4/1999 – Max & Liz share their
first kiss (Heatwave) 1/2000 – Frazier Woods
SIghting 2/14/2000 – Liz goes on her Blind Date with Doug
Shellow 2/2000 – Beeping in the desert (SH) 2/21(?)/2000
– Orb found by Max and Liz (SH) 4/8/2000 – FBI Agent Daniel
Pierce checks out item 87 kl stone form Special Unit vault
(Silverhandprint) 4/8/2000 – Kathleen Topolsky checks out
Orb Communicator from FBI Evidence Vault
(Silverhandprint) 4/14/2000 – Fire brakes out at Bethesda
Psychiatric Institute in Bethesda, Maryland, and Topolsky is
listed as among the six patients killed
(Silverhandprint) 4/18/2000 - Daniel Pierce leaves for
Roswell (Whitaker Diary) 5/5/2000 – Rare alignment of
Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Earth’s Moon and the
Sun (4everyoung) 5/14/2000, 4:33 pm – Pod Squad set off the
communicators – sending a pulse detected by other
aliens 7/2000 – Grant steals rifle from hunter in New
Castle, Wyoming (Disturbing Behavior) 8/2000 – Grant steals
oxygen tanks from hospice in Fort Collins, CO (Disturbing
Behavior) 9/2000 – Grant steals plastic head box from
industrial supply in Las Cruses, NM (DB) Fall 2000 – Scooby
Gang begins 11th grade (Monsters) or 12th grade based on
comments in Season 2 9/25/2000 – Congressional hearing
closes down FBI Special Unit (S&B) 9/29/2000 - Whitaker
decides to set up her Roswell office, Pierce doesn't return
her calls (Whitaker Diary) 10/6/2000 - Whitaker's office is
set up, and has employed Liz Parker. Nicolas reports deserters
from Copper Summit. (Whitaker Diary) 10/7/2000 - Whitaker
reports Pierce is "the shapeshifter," and that since he went
to Max Evans, Evans must be one of the hybrids. Also wonders
if Iz is really Vilandra: It is possible the Queen could have
reversed Vilandra's and the Bride's roles to throw them off
track. Realizes Liz's importance to the hybrids and tapes her
calls. Killed Harding, the shapeshifter. (Whitaker
Diary) 10/15 or 25/2000 – Isabel celebrates her 18th
birthday 10/25 or 11/25 – Whitaker was supposed to report
to Skins, but doesn’t (Harvest) [The dates in Surprise, TEOTW
& Harvest are ALL screwed up – someone should e-mail a
copy of this timeline to the writers! Z] 10/27(?) or
11/3/2000 – Future Max visits, causing Liz to fake sleeping
with Kyle, pushing Max to accept Tess (thus, changing forever
the course of history) 11/6/2001 – Special Agent Ragsdale
writes Congressman White re: FBI Special Unit
(Silverhandprint) 11/23/2000 – Max goes to the Summit;
calls Iz with details of offer Fall 2000 – Harvest of Skins
due or they will die (Harvest) 12/7/2000 – Grant’s ??
birthday (Surprise) 12/23/2000 – Max heals kids in Hospital
(ARCC) 12/24/2000 – Max attends Midnight Services,
expressing his Belief in Liz (ARCC) 1/2001 – The Hybrid
Chronicles Begin! 2014 – Minutes before the destruction of
Earth, Future Liz Convinces Future Max to go back in time and
convince Liz to deceive Max into “falling out of love with
her” – thus, changing the future (TEOTW)
In Summary
I know I have NOT covered everything (there’re an amazing
number of clues to be found!), but that would be impossible
and I’d never do all the wonderful theories justice! There is
lots of speculation about other characters revolving around
Liz, and why they are important to the discussion. Some have
wondered why Max and Agent Stevens had the same address – just
an inside joke or more? The Ava drawings also seem to tie Liz
in just by including her, but …? Tangents are welcome on this
Thread as long as they ultimately lead back to Liz! I'm trying
to “sum” up the core issues here - Liz's importance and
connection to the podsquad – Max in particular! I hope others
will help fill in some of the gaps, but this is my attempt to
continue the wonderful input, and make this thread accessible.
I’m also hoping the clues that we have found are up-lifting to
the Dreamers out there that just lurk! Lots to think about!!
So – theorize away!!! All theories on "Liz’s Importance to the
Alien Mythology" are welcome.
OH, BTW (I always have to add this – if anyone from THE WB
reads this), WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LIZ/MAX CONNECTION IS
CRITICAL TO THE SHOW, AND THAT TOGETHER MAX AND LIZ MAKE AN
INCREDIBLE FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!!
A couple of general “rules” – NO SPOILERS[b/] (even asides
about spoilers are not allowed), but anything “aired” is
subject to discussion, including coming attractions and things
on the Silverhandprint site. Pictures are welcome, as is
deleted dialog from posted scripts of shows that have been
aired and commentary by writers/producers.
[b]Zero I Shall Believe!!
| |
By Zero |
02-12-2001,
05:42 PM |
StarBox - the pictures that I had of a "X," "cross," of the
podsters standing in the pod symbol and of the four sugar
cubes did not come out. If you can find them, could you
include them in the pictures?? I can always e-mail them to you
in a Word format if need be. I'm totally inept when it comes
to getting pictures to post here??
Zero I Shall Believe! WOW - THREAD #30!!
| |
By peej |
02-12-2001,
06:17 PM |
hi i know this might sound silly but what if, the reason max
knew liz when he first sees her is cause when they were in the
pods she was there once. prehaps with grandma claudia maybe
she was to keep a watch over them. cause liz would have been
young she couldnt remember that.
| |
By StarBox
|
02-12-2001,
06:42 PM |
Here is the image gallery to go with the intro. Zero - Im
looking up those caps for you right now - I'll add them at the
end :-) Liz and Max with the "V" pattern holding hands:
Here is a great drawing of a diamond (the shape of the
granolith) that Metaphysical posted - notice the repeated
"V"'s within the shape?
Liz as Venus:
Liz and Max as twin souls - notice how they come together
to form the "swirl" on the orb activated during Sexual
Healing. Also - notice the "Emergency" sign behind them -
when they come to gether it reads "MERGE". The animation is
from the alternate ending to Leaving Normal and
is complimets of RedHawk (THANKS!!) Also posted is a
screencap of the aired ending of Leaving Normal - here you
can see a variation of the orb swirl
as well.
[IMG]http://www.geocities.com/redhawksroswell/pics/LNdfend.gif
[/IMG]
Liz as the keeper of/key to the granolith: Picture of
the granolith chamber in the crashdown:
Liz with the word "CHANGE" behind her - from Leaving
Normal. I think the theme of Liz's "emergence" is central
to Roswell - Think of Future Max's line that Liz needed to
let herself change.
Liz's Hero Journey is closely linked to images of Liz
looking into MIRRORS. The mirror seems to symbolize the
transformation Liz is undergoing. Another symbol linked to Liz
is that of BUTTERFLIES - an obvious symbol of metamorphasis
and change.
Sheila Hubble:
Liz as the Virgin Mary/key to Salvation (::waving to
Evid:
The dragon on Liz's window:
Liz as the Trojan Horse (she was avoiding Maria in the
Pilot and ate lunch with Pam TROY). Horses have shown up
alot in pictures, etc but here is the horse that ran in
front of Max's jeep in Blood Brothers:
Liz as the Tree of Life and EAGLE imagery - see the tree
mural on the wall - and also the EAGLE figure on the
table.
The "destiny" book with the name "LIZ" backwards next to
what looks like the granolith sideways:
Liz and the cave "map" - note the granolith-like symbols
near her neck and towards the top.
Liz and the Childhoods End book:
Okay Zero - here you go - the cross and the sugar
cubes:
Images thanks to crashdown, shapeshifter, redhawk and a
HUGE thanks to www.theddd.com who are kind enough
to supply custom screencaps for our gallery. THANKS!!!
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-12-2001,
06:49 PM |
peej, Welcome! I just had a similar-but-different thought:
What if Max recognized Liz when they were kids because of a
flash-forward (that would be the opposite of a 'flashback') to
his future involvement/changing her? I realize this would be a
continuous loop sequence of consciousness, but why not?
Anyway,
http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/LizMythology/index.html is
updated and has the first thread, the first of season 2, and
the last 2 linked.
Zero, I will have to read your updated intro later--here it
is 4:41 on my day off and so much left to do! But I'm sure you
did a great job!
| |
By StarBox
|
02-12-2001,
07:02 PM |
Redhawk - I updated your animation on the last thread but
forgot to archive the new address - could you resend it
possibly????
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-12-2001,
07:09 PM |
Hello All!
We have been discussing the possibility of putting together
a list of questions for the Roswell set design team. After
thousands of posts and hours spent speculating on the various
things we see on the set, we are going to attempt to contact
TPTB and have some of our questions answered by the people in
charge! We are hoping that they might be so flattered by our
appreciation of their work that they take time out of their
busy schedules to answer our questions. As of now, a few
people have some leads as to where to get their contact
information. Anybody who could help us with this endeavor, it
would be great if you could PM me with the information.
Ideally we would like to email them the questions, and they
can email us back. We could even funnel it through a third
party if they're more comfortable with that. In a perfect
world, they would come to this thread and answer our questions
live and in person!
If you are interested in submitting questions, it would be
easiest for me if you could PM them to me instead of just
posting them on the board. I will make sure each of you gets
credit where credit is due.
For the sake of making this easier, I have separated the
questions into 2 categories. General questions and specific
questions.
Without further ado, here's what we have so far...
<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
QUESTIONS FOR THE ROSWELL SET DESIGN TEAM
General Questions
(1)When designing the sets, do you bear in mind the people
out there (like us mythologists) who will analyze and
overthink as many of the props that we do? submitted by
Alderbran
(2) How do you keep track of the "themes" that you choose?
Are they things that you decide or does the director have a
lot of say in that?submitted by Alderbran
(3) Have you ever placed an item in the set as a joke to
see if any of the audience will notice it?submitted by
Alderbran
(4) When designing a set and picking the props, are there
plot line cues hidden amongst the decorations? submitted by
Metaphysicalgrl
(5) How involved is your 'team' in telling the story? Are
there specific things that the directors or whoever ask to see
in the set? And if the answer to the first part of the
question is yes, can you please give us some examples?
Submitted by Metaphysicalgrl
(6) Can you tell us what your favorite sets to dress are
and why? Submitted by Metaphysicalgrl
(7) Do you ever visit a thread like ours - that analyzes
the show, including looking for clues in the scene - to see
what we are looking for or if we have found what they put
there for us to find?? submitted by Zero
Specific Questions
(1) What is the title/artist of the impressionist picture
in Liz's room? submitted by Starbox
(2) Liz has another picture in her room that is a long
rectangle with three objects on it - almost like a shadowbox -
they look kind of like some sort of shell??? What are they??
submitted by Starbox
(3)What kind of animal does Max have in his terrarium?
submitted by Starbox
(4) What do the posters in Max's room say? submitted by
Starbox
(5)Are the chinese lanterns significant or are you just
using them to diffuse light?? submitted by Starbox
(6)What is the old map of that hangs in Max's room over his
computer? submitted by Alderbran
(7)In the DeLuca house on the table near the door there is
a picture of a woman. Who is the picture of, and what is the
writing underneath the picture? submitted by Alderbran
(8) What significance if any is there to Max having a
figurine of a windmill in his bedroom and Liz having a
painting of the same type windmill in her room. submitted by
Starstruck
(9)Why oh why do they keep using the #14 on everything from
hotel room #'s to classroom #'s to TV station #'s etc.
submitted by Starstruck
(10) Could you list the items that are on Max's bulletin
board? submitted by Starbox
<>~~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
That's it for now, I'll keep updating as I get the
questions.
We probably don't want to make it too long, as it would be
really great if they could answer these by email or something.
Anyway, let's just hope that they eventually get to see these.
That's it on my end...
It's All good...
Metaphysicalgrl {~}:}
Added one new question from Starbox under Specific
Questions on 2/19/01
| |
By Qfanny |
02-12-2001,
07:19 PM |
Zero:
*Might* I make a suggestion to your introduction.
There is currently a thread the moderators have started
discussing the need to less shipper oriented groups. I gather
would be posters feel discourage about posting unless they
belong to a group. I for one, know that any would be poster
that has something to offer to explain the mythology would be
welcomed here.
It seems so silly to bring this up, because I know we are
very tolerant of people's ideas. However, it seems to be a
sore subject among new posters.
Now, back to Liz....
| |
By peaches192
|
02-12-2001,
07:38 PM |
Hmm...those are all very interesting theories, and i have
finally come up with my own. ok, first of all i want to say
that i don't think that tess is max's destiny. i mean, the
aliens sent them on earth to save their race but they are not
god and do not have the final say in what goes on. so i think
that tess is max's bride but they weren't in love. he could
have just been marrying her for royal reasons or prearranged
marriages or something. so then liz and max are supposed to be
together. Ada said that she thought Zan never really loved her
and he seemed to always be searching for someone else so
that's where i got that on antar max wasn't really in love
with tess. in TEOTW liz just had to keep tess from leaving the
group, no one ever said that after tess got over that fact
that it's not really how it was on antar that liz and max
couldn't be together. after all, liz is supposed to bring
balance. well, if anyone can find anything wrong with that
theory i would really like to hear it.
| |
By Melodious1
|
02-12-2001,
07:53 PM |
everyone!
Great start as always Zero... I'm currently out of town and
typing this from a hotel computer. Although I found this
interesting website before I left home that I wanted to link
here (but had forgotten until now). I believe it's the
official site for Laura Esquivel's book Law of Love. It's a
book I enjoyed but I prefer her other, more famous work,
[/b][/i]Like Water For Chocolate[/i][/b]. The premise of Law
of Love is basically the concept of "twin souls", which y'all
seem to discuss in here quite prevalently in concerns to Max
and Liz. Anyway, this is a portion of the website, called a
"Karmometer"...
http://www.randomhouse.com/features/lawoflove/karm.html
Supposedly, the above is supposed to tell you how long it
will take you before you find your "twin soul". Although I
think it's mostly in colloberation with the book itself (a
clever way of advertising it ). I thought it was kind of
interesting nonetheless and thought I'd share it with y'all.
Melodious
| |
By Dayneen
|
02-12-2001,
07:58 PM |
Hi all Great start zero!!!!
I know that this has been discussed before, but I'm still
wondering if there were perhaps two ships, maybe even two
crashes. According to Betty Osorio's journal, Linda Schlupp
said the crash occured in a pasture 30 miles from town. But
the crash site we saw in SO47, though it very well could've
been 30 miles outside of town, hardly looked like a ranch. It
looked like the desert. In DB when Liz was looking at the map
it showed that Polman Ranch (the place where the crash
supposedly happened) was near Lauree's burial site in Frazier
Woods. This sort of leads me to believe that there were two
ships, unless the desert was really close to Frazier Woods,
but I didn't see that on the map.
Also in TLV, when Michael had the vision (could've been a
Tess-O-Vision) he was running through the woods, presumbly at
Polman Ranch. But he, Max, and Isabel came out of the pod
chamber in the desert. I also wonder who picked up Michael
after Isabel and Max were picked up by the Evans? Michael has
always told Max "it was you the Evans picked up on the side of
the road, not me" So who found Michael and how long was he in
the desert before someone found him???
Anyways, I watched Liz's dream sequence in TSAP again. I
thought it was interesting how the colors changed from red to
green. And the prescence of white being so prominate. Here's
what I found (sorry if someone has already pointed this out)
White Rose: Reverence, Humility White (alone): Purity,
Weddings (used in weddings in America) Color Red - In
Chinese, means a symbol of luck, wedding (used in).
India-Purity, wedding (used in). Easter Cultures- Means joy
combined with white (the white roses, Liz white dress).
Other meanings for red- Excitement,energy,
Passion,desire,strength, love, power, heat, all things intense
and passionate. Sounds like Max and Liz to me
Green - renewal, fertility
Interesting how all the symbolism tends to go back to
weddings, and things associated with a bride, fertility, joy,
purity, etc.,
| |
By Zero |
02-12-2001,
08:25 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Qfanny: Zero:
*Might* I make a suggestion to your introduction.
There is currently a thread the moderators have started
discussing the need to less shipper oriented groups. I gather
would be posters feel discourage about posting unless they
belong to a group. I for one, know that any would be poster
that has something to offer to explain the mythology would be
welcomed here.
It seems so silly to bring this up, because I know we are
very tolerant of people's ideas. However, it seems to be a
sore subject among new posters.
Now, back to Liz....
Qfanny - If you can think of a way to make this thread more
welcoming to newbies, yet still keep the focus on Liz's
importance, I welcome it! I try really hard to convey that we
welcome all new comers - but you never know if the intent gets
conveyed properly??
AND if any NEWBIE ARE LURKING OUT THERE - PLEASE FEEL FREE
TO JOIN IN! IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF A FEW POSTS BEFORE YOU ARE
NO LONGER A NEWBIE HERE!!
Also - A BIG THANKS TO STARBOX FOR POSTING THE PICTURES!
You found the ones I couldn't post. The pictures add sooooo
much to the thread!
Met - Looks like you have a great set of questions so far.
I may add a couple, but I need a while to think if others
haven't covered something I feel is important. We should
coordinate to see if we get a contact!
peej and Peaches192 - Welcome !
Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By MicMac |
02-12-2001,
09:45 PM |
I have a few minor things to add, sorry if they've already
been mentioned.
If Max is connected to Liz in a kind of molecular or
genetic way (the popular theory), then wouldn't Liz also be
connected to Zan? Someone said she wanted to go to University
in NY, could it be her "connection" to Zan was pulling her
there? Wouldn't Zan have felt this too? Ava said her was
always waiting for another, she was sure he thought this other
person would just walk into his life. And why do you suppose
he absolutly refused to go to the summit? The other three felt
this was their one shot at getting home, yet he didn't want to
take it. Could he want to stay on earth because this is where
the "other" person he is waiting for is?
Another thing, I don't think Zan is dead. The camera never
shot his body, yet Ava said "his body just lay in the street"
but she never said if that spider web stuff engulfed him.
Why didn't Max, Iz, Michael, and Tess question why they
didn't use the healing stones. Ava was sure there was no way
of bringing him back, so maybe their shapeshifter didn't tell
the dupes about them. There is, too, the thought that maybe
their shapeshifter didn't have healing stones. But does that
mean Nasado was superior to that one in some way? Why wouldn't
the shapeshifters work together to accomplish thier common
goal? We have seen the dupes shapeshifter, did they even have
one, or did they kill him? I wonder if the dupes had the
communicators too.
Now that I'm done that little rant, I have just one more
question. If Zan is alive, like I think he is, what would
happen to Liz if he came to Roswell, and she saw him?
It was nice talking to ya!!!!!
| |
By
bluecornmoon |
02-12-2001,
10:38 PM |
Zero: Read the introduction. I don't know how do it but you
manage to surpass even yourself each time! And my hat off to
your husband... that man is a saint, I tell you, a Saint!!!
The only "rat" I have is cute so I can't give it to you to
replace the snake - Oops, sorry, I forgot! Snakes are our
friends!
A couple of things: You said a ship was powering the
Granolith! I disagree. Since it was established that it
gathers great force and has incredible power, a ship, lurking
around the vecinity of Roswell, could never do that! I think
the Granolith is connected somehow to Earth's core! That's the
only place where you could find all that power, and it would
be easily accesible! The "G" has its claws imbedded down
there, I'm sure!
MicMac - As for Zan, it has long been speculated that his
reaction will be interesting to watch, if one day, he enters
the Crashdown and faces Liz! Oh, the tales we could tell!!!!
Peej - Congratulations on delurking. I, too, wrote my first
post on this thread! Hope it's the beginning of many!!!
Methaphysicalgrl - As I said in Thread 29, my friend, who
won the bid for the Bill Sadler lunch, will gladly take all
your questions to the set designers / decorators / prop guys!
If not, at least she will acquire an e-mail out of them!
Dayneen: The crash was 30 miles from Roswell and, if you
watch a documentary on the real crash, you see that the area
is arid, dry and deserted! But it was part of the Puhlman
Ranch, which is next to the woods! New Mexico is a place of
contrasts and it has every climate! Fertile fields next to the
desert. Hot and dry to cold and humid!
| |
By Zero |
02-12-2001,
11:19 PM |
quote:Originally posted by bluecornmoon: Zero: Read the
introduction. I don't know how do it but you manage to surpass
even yourself each time! And my hat off to your husband...
that man is a saint, I tell you, a Saint!!!
Bluecornmoon - My husband is definitely a saint! He thinks
I'm nuts, but never complains about the hours I spend on-line!
Fortunately, I have a laptop hooked up in the living room, so
I can play and watch TV in the evening at the same time!
MicMac - Welcome! We have often wondered the same things!
If you hang around long enough you will discover we often come
up with way more questions than ever could posibly be
answered, but "inquirering minds want to know!" I would love
to see Liz's reaction to Zan and vice versa. My one thought on
"WHY?" Zan didn't want to go to the summit - He knew he
wouldn't pass the "test." That he wasn't the authentic "King."
Also - Bluecornmoon - I'm not saying that the Granolith is
a spaceship, just that that is one of the thoughts and it
somewhat makes sense. But maybe I need to revise that section
to make that clear. I definitely think it is more than that
though. Big and mythical in nature!
Back to finish reading!
Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-12-2001,
11:34 PM |
quote:Originally posted by bluecornmoon:
A couple of
things: You said a ship was powering the Granolith! I
disagree. Since it was established that it gathers great force
and has incredible power, a ship, lurking around the vecinity
of Roswell, could never do that! I think the Granolith is
connected somehow to Earth's core! That's the only place where
you could find all that power, and it would be easily
accesible! The "G" has its claws imbedded down there, I'm
sure!
Methaphysicalgrl - As I said in Thread 29, my friend,
who won the bid for the Bill Sadler lunch, will gladly take
all your questions to the set designers / decorators / prop
guys! If not, at least she will acquire an e-mail out of them!
Thanks for any help you can give regarding the set
designers. I will keep the questions updated as people send
them to me...and update the post on each thread. Whenever you
need to give the questions to your friend, just grab them!
Thanks for your help!!!!!
On a totally different subject, I remember RiverDog saying
that [human] energy was needed to activate the healing stones
-- that energy would mix with the balance and restore it. I'm
going to go out on a limb here and say that the same might be
true for the Granolith. However, we've never seen the
Granolith activated except in a future moment, and Max had to
insert a crystal thing to get it to work...(or so we think).
It could be an energy source...but if you notice in EOTW, the
Granolith doesn't suck Max up until Liz touches it.
I don't know where I'm going with this, as it's kind of
late and my head is spinning, but I definitely think the
Granolith could be using the energy of the earth (there is
energy in everything)as a power source.
Allrighty then...
Must rest. Head spinning.
{~}:}
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-13-2001,
01:14 AM |
Meta et al (including Reggie ), 2 things about the
Granolith keep coming back in my mind because of the way they
were dropped into the scripts: 1)In MITC Tess comments
that Liz has never even seen the Granolith 2)In WAF Max
says that the closest he's going to get to traveling is the
Granolith (and that in context of Liz more or less asking him
to run away with her) Also, (3) would be that Liz is the
only one that knows that the Granolith was (in the future past
tense of Roswell time) altered for use in Time Travel.
So, I'm just thinking (and I know others have posted on
this previously) that whenever Liz sees the Granolith, it's
going to be a big deal.
| |
By Chad Evans
|
02-13-2001,
04:43 AM |
This thread takes off so quickly, it's hard to keep up with
it. Isn't there an alien power of speed reading? Or better
yet, I want Isabel to come over and touch my modem and have it
work like the radio and air conditioner did in Maria's car in
"Monsters."
Chad Evans "Because you can do impossible things." -Dar
to Curupira in "The Demon Curupira".
| |
By Alexis |
02-13-2001,
07:49 AM |
Hi all my fellow RBIer’s!
I watched MA, Monsters, LN, and Missing (okay so I was only
planning on watching Missing to check out the mirror that is
also in Amy Deluca’s House—It is the EXACT mirror! Great
Catch! I knew it looked familiar! ) Anyway I found a few more
things:
When Max goes to the UFO Center Milton says that their were
Purple hyroglyfics on certain recovered items. Could anyone
remember (or post) what color the pentagonal device’s writing
was?
In LN when Liz is talking with GC there is a butterfly wing
over her right shoulder (our left).
Also, in LN when Alex is in Topolsky’s office there is a
sign behind him where you can only read “You can choose to
overcome them.” Interesting, huh?
If anyone is interested in joining in the Operation Max/Liz
campaign, please email me at awales@cahners.com. Thanks!
| |
By Zara |
02-13-2001,
07:52 AM |
quote:Originally posted by shapeshifter: I'm just thinking
(and I know others have posted on this previously) that
whenever Liz sees the Granolith, it's going to be a big deal.
Yes! I'm guessing there'll be alot of glowing, spinning,
humming, rumbling, perhaps an non-momogram or two (from GC
this time?)... Wow! Anything could happen. I'll be so
disappointed if nothing does!
Zara Liz is the key to the Granolith
| |
By
bluecornmoon |
02-13-2001,
08:16 AM |
Zara: Just so that you are not disappointed if the Granolith
doesn't do anything when Liz sees it for the first time: I
don't think anything will happen...yet! As FMax said: she is
not ready because she hasn't changed! She is in the process,
and she'll get there but the *G* will react to her evolved
brain/essence/spirit, and that will probably only happen after
she finds out who she really is. Even we, enlightened beings
that we are, don't know for sure: is she the Bride?, is she
the Fifth Element who didn't have anything to do with Max
before?, is she the 4th podster? Of course, we know she'll
make it work at the 11th hour, when their enemies are ready to
take over and she commands the *G* to activate, surprising
everybody, including herself. Everybody, except us, of course!
So.. patience, space girl! Our time will come!
| |
By StarBox
|
02-13-2001,
08:30 AM |
Re: Liz and the Granolith - I agree that when she sees the
granolith it is going to be very significant. They are really
setting Liz up as the "brains" behind the operation this
season. She is the one that figured out about the time warp in
WO, and she knew about the crystals being parasites. I have to
wonder if her "knowledge" is the result of her being "INTO"
science or possible her tapping into some "internal" knowledge
of alien things..... Also - in EOTW we found out that Tess
is necessary to balance their powers - but Tess is not
exactaly the brightest cookie in the box (perhaps part of why
Max is not attracted to her) - in fact in EOTW Liz tries to
"Lure" Max to Tess with a tight fitting top and a BOOK. Isabel
has never been portrayed as an intellectual (goal in life?? be
a supermodel) and Michael is definately not an intellectual.
So that leaves Max - but once again - the writers have gone to
great lengths to show that it is LIZ that figures things out
(even as early as Morning After when Liz figured out how to
evade Valenti). Which makes Liz extremely important to the
podsters survival.
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By aldebaran
|
02-13-2001,
09:21 AM |
Good morning, all! I come bearing questions (sorry - can't
think too early in the morning).
(1) Did anyone figure out who is in the picture that sits
on the table near the front door of the DeLuca house?
(2) Any theories on the old map hanging on Max's bedroom
wall? It could be an old map of the area (from previous alien
visits). Anyway, it has to mean something!
(3) Alexis - I think the alien characters on the pentagonal
device were silver/gray.
(4) Just a little something on aprons. In Liz's dream in
TSAP, she was in her waitress uniform. Aprons usually
symbolize sexuality in that they cover/shield the sexual
organs. I believe they also symbolize fertility. Notice she
wasn't wearing hers in the dream.....
| |
By GraceKel
|
02-13-2001,
12:57 PM |
Aldebaran I looked at the pic by the door I don't know who it
is the word underneath it looks like American something can't
see other word, hope that helps. As for the map in Max's room
will have to look at that again.
Can't remember who brought up about the silverhandprint on
the mirror looking thing near the door but I think you may be
right, was it Starbox?
Zero-interesting alienpops--you said maybe Maria has an
alien pop but could it be AMY DELUCA that had an alien pop? I
still wonder why they brought up BREEPA DELUCA--Maria
mentioned this in Sof47 eppy--I regret not being able to say
goodbye to Breepa Deluca before he died. Was that her
grandfather, uncle, what?
| |
By redhawk
|
02-13-2001,
02:05 PM |
Hi StarBox, here is the animation on the new
server:
the address:
http://www.geocities.com/redhawksroswell/pics/LNdfend.gif
Well, now I must be off. Don't you hate it when "real" life
gets in the way?
| |
By
Rockgoddess |
02-13-2001,
02:37 PM |
i don't think the granolith with respond to Liz when she first
sees it. No bells or whistles. However, I do think things will
start popping in Liz's head so the event will be significant.
Liz will start exploring what the G is, how it works, etc.
It's her nature to question.
| |
By Granolith
|
02-13-2001,
03:08 PM |
Hi RBIers. Rockgoddess, I followed you here. I hope that
doesn't make me a stalker.
Anyway, thanks to you guys I am seeing diamonds everywhere!
In the last episode in the Deluca's house I about went mad
looking at them all! I'm sure you have all discussed the
diamonds at great length, but I just wanted to let you know. I
love your work.
| |
By Alexis |
02-13-2001,
04:31 PM |
Zero--are you sorry you asked? Sorry for the long PM!
| |
By peej |
02-13-2001,
05:20 PM |
hi all again. now this has been really bothering me. i know
that liz is important. in which way im not sure. but do we
what her to be max destiny or do we want her to be something
that they choose.that been together is their choice?
| |
By Rooney |
02-13-2001,
05:21 PM |
quote:Originally posted by peej: hi i know this might sound
silly but what if, the reason max knew liz when he first sees
her is cause when they were in the pods she was there once.
prehaps with grandma claudia maybe she was to keep a watch
over them. cause liz would have been young she couldnt
remember that.
Your comment provoked a thought. Isn't it interesting that
Max knew Liz when he saw her but didn't know Tess?
Rooney
| |
By BehrsVenus
|
02-13-2001,
05:26 PM |
I have been lurking here off and on and am fascinated! I had
to come out of lurkdom to reply to peej. I think that Max and
Liz are each other's DESTINY and that it is their CHOICE to be
each other's DESTINY. Granted there is a definite connection
that is utterly transcendental, doesn't Max seem to talk about
making his own destiny often? I think they absolutely have
chosen to be destined to be together.
| |
By Rooney |
02-13-2001,
05:32 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Dayneen: Hi all Great start
[b]zero!!!!
I know that this has been discussed before, but I'm still
wondering if there were perhaps two ships, maybe even two
crashes. [/B]
I think that in "real" life there were two crashes. They
were miles apart and discovered on separate days. It's been
awhile since I read anything on the Roswell crash so I can't
remember anything more than that.
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-13-2001,
06:58 PM |
Alexis, Re: quote:When Max goes to the UFO Center Milton
says that their were Purple hyroglyfics on certain recovered
items. Could anyone remember (or post) what color the
pentagonal device’s writing was?The Orbs were depicted as
purplish, maybe that was the reference?
aldebaran, Re: quote:(1) Did anyone figure out who is in
the picture that sits on the table near the front door of the
DeLuca house? I guess you don't mean the one of Krishna
wich could symbolize reincarnation. I'll have to check after I
get home.
| |
By
bluecornmoon |
02-13-2001,
07:53 PM |
Rooney: The Roswell crash: The weather reports for that day
were that two fronts - one of electric storms and the other of
a warm front crashing against the storm made the weather go
crazy in Chavez and Lincoln Counties that day. All speculation
about what happened is that two ships crashed - one against
the other! There are no reports of two ships crashing in two
different places or two different days!
| |
By Tasyfa |
02-13-2001,
08:07 PM |
I haven't been here in so long; I've missed it so much! I was
computerless for about 2 weeks, and then just as I got it
running again I got my season 1 tapes I have now seen all of
season 1 I haven't seen any of the eps enough times (yet ) to
be able to pick anything out though. However, I did spend some
time watching some S2 eps prior to S1's arrival, and I noticed
a couple of things.
In Harvest, when Max, Tess & Liz are in the UFL
building and the Skins start to go nuts, Liz's hand is on the
back of Max's neck before they all get up and run out. Was she
giving him her strength?
In MTD, when the dupes come down the stairs and they're all
looking back and forth, the camera shots go like this: full
shot of Lonnie looks at full shot of Isabel; full shot of
Michael (tiny bit of Max's shoulder in the corner, b/c
Michael's standing behind him) looks at full shot of Rath;
full shot of Ava looks at full shot of Tess AND Liz. So, does
this mean what it seems to imply? Which is: Rath =
Michael Lonnie = Isabel Ava = Tess + Liz
More recently (sorry if it was mentioned while I was MIA),
what if Laurie's nurse is Serena? I'm not sure why I thought
she might be; it just occurred to me (wishful thinking? ). I
wasn't able to make out the name on her nametag badge--was
anyone else? And, about when Max says, "The closest I'm going
to get [to travelling] is the Granolith chamber." I don't know
about everyone else, but I only use this phrase to describe a
place that I actually DO go to, or an action that I actually
DO do. The implication is that the podsters haven't been
ignoring the *G*, they just haven't been doing anything with
it in front of the camera The third thing--which has
undoubtedly been pointed out--is the diamond pattern on the
quilt behind Alex's head during the slideshow on Liz's
balcony. I'm looking through my quilt books to find the
pattern; I think it's usually called Mountains or River,
depending on the colour scheme (Alex's would be the Mountain
colour scheme, in beige & brown). I'll post the name once
I'bve found it.
Zero Fabulous job on the intro. I'm not sure who coined the
term Blue Goop for the Gandarium, but I it!
bluecornmoon You must be over the flu by now; I hope it
didn't last too long. Once I get my outgoing e-mail working
properly again, I'll send you part 7 of Forging; I posted it
on Jen007's board last night
Norma Bates Saw your response; thanks! I'm exploring my
lifebond ideas mainly through my fic since we're not getting
much to work on from the show right now
I have a TON of catching up to do, so I'll be around. This
thread gives me more hope even than Cherishing, b/c it offers
real, grounded ideas as to why Liz and Max belong together
Though I must say, after watching the last 5 eps of S1, which
I had never seen before this past Friday, I'm not really
worried about their reunion; I know it will come. I'm not sure
if it was the lack of sleep due to the marathon viewing
session, but I can see where this is all going now, and why
M&L need to be apart--for the moment. ~Tas
| |
By Qfanny |
02-13-2001,
08:30 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Tasyfa: In MTD, when the dupes
come down the stairs and they're all looking back and forth,
the camera shots go like this: full shot of Lonnie looks at
full shot of Isabel; full shot of Michael (tiny bit of Max's
shoulder in the corner, b/c Michael's standing behind him)
looks at full shot of Rath; full shot of Ava looks at full
shot of Tess AND Liz. So, does this mean what it seems to
imply? Which is: Rath = Michael Lonnie = Isabel Ava =
Tess + Liz
This is a very interesting observation and
one I don't think I've read about before (could be wrong).
Somehow, I think Ava sees herself both as Tess and as Liz:
She knows that she and Tess have the same biology, but in
Diary of a Meltdown, she notes under Tess's name, "In a past
life, I was a Queen." There's a certain finality in that
sentence. Max has been refered to as "the King". Not, "was the
King". So I am wondering if Liz usurped Tess in the eyes of
Ava.
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-13-2001,
10:36 PM |
Okay all you RBIers, Don't tell me I'm the only one that gets
a real kick out of watching the pillow fight scene backwards.
And anyone old enough to remember spinning the Beatles'
Number 9 backwards so it would say "Turn me on, dead
man?"
| |
By LMLAChick
|
02-13-2001,
11:12 PM |
oh my gosh, the first post leaves no detail un-explored. i
think i've just read every single possible way that liz is
connected to the pod squad. it is a very anal retentive
thread. i love some of the ideas, and disagree with some
others. TPTB have probably been dropping little hints in each
episode since the Piolt bout liz's connection, and in the
middle of the night a few years from now, we're all gonna wale
up and say "oh my gosh! I get it!" oh well... keep up thegreat
work, and keep the theories coming. -LM
| |
By
Addict2Roswell |
02-13-2001,
11:16 PM |
Hi all...
Bye bye...
| |
By SweetJo
|
02-13-2001,
11:59 PM |
Hey RBIers
It sure has been a while. I just thought I would drop in
and read the new stuff. AND-Low and behold, I happened to just
think of something.
OK-this is probably something that has been posted already
but I don't know because I am about 10 threads behind So if
this sounds really stupid I am sorry
The V shape is half of a diamond! Now, I think diamonds
have to have some major significance if they are popping up
all the time and they are 2 V shapes put together.--->
<> <> <> <>
Sorry if that was really stupid, but it is 1AM and I am
gettting really tired. Just blame it on lack of sleep
Lots of Love, SweetJo I SHALL BELIEVE!!!!!
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-14-2001,
12:04 AM |
sweetJo, you are too modest , that is an awesome
idea! Addict2Roswell, your picture is supremely awesome,
thank you for sharing it. And CosmicDream, wherever you
are, I hope you don't mind me posting this here--it's the
image I morphed from 2 of yours:
| |
By Scully |
02-14-2001,
02:30 AM |
Good morning everyone! Well it's been a while since I've had
the pleasure of dropping in here so I wanted to say hi to
everyone! Great into, as usual, Zero! Would you mind PMing me
and explain in more detail the idea of the 50 years and the
war and everything being accurate time wise? Also, what's up
with the 4 square symbol with the swirl? I'm lost there.
Aldebaron--would you please finish the thought on the
apron thing? I'm just not catching on. It's like 3 a.m.-->
I am a night owl sometimes. I was wondering about that box
of photos Liz found at Tess's house (TLV)....they were mostly
of Max right? Well, who do you think took those pictures? I am
just curious as to what you all think about them. I am
probably babbling but I was thinking...whoever took those
pictures would have to know where Max would be and therefore
would've followed him for some time. Nasedo didn't know where
to find the podsters until one day he popped up in Roswell.
Wouldn't you think if he was taking those pictures he would've
been around sooner than when he bought the house and stuff?
Does this make sense to anyone? Well, I'm off to frequent
other threads for a while. Later! Scully
| |
By
AnonWatcher |
02-14-2001,
03:22 AM |
Liz is the most intelligent of the whole crew... did you see
the way she took control of the sample in DB... she will
definitely be the one to unlock the mysteries of the granolith
| |
By aldebaran
|
02-14-2001,
07:10 AM |
Qfanny - I spent some time yesterday looking at the collages
Ava made, and something struck me. Did you also think that the
wording that Ava chose to describe herself was a bit odd?
Everyone always refers to Max as "the king". Think of Michael
when he gives Max a hard time - he always says something like
"well, you're our fearless leader" or "you're the king, do
something". It is always in the present tense, and it is
always specific - the king. When Ava made the collage, she
stated that she was a queen. Does that seem odd to anyone
else? Not the queen but a queen.
Perhaps that would go hand in hand with Tasyfa's theory
from MTD: Ava = Tess AND Liz. Past and present meet. A queen
meets THE queen. Just a thought.
Scully - I guess my thoughts about the apron (in connection
with what an apron symbolizes - fertility/sex) just reiterated
what the dream was - a sex dream where Liz had no inhibitions.
In real life, Liz's uniform is accompanied by the apron. In
her dream, she was in uniform sans apron. Her repoductive
organs (read sexuality) were "exposed" as opposed to being
covered by the apron. Just an observation.
| |
By StarBox
|
02-14-2001,
08:01 AM |
Tasfya, QFanny - I think your observations about Ava =
Liz/Tess are very vety interesting. The thing that really
struck me about MITC was the bond that Liz immediately felt
with Ava. I mean - this a girl that looks exactaly like the
who stole your true love from you. It isnt "natural" to
automatically have a protective, warm response to her. The
fact that Liz (whose instinct has always been right)
instinctively felt drawn to Ava seems signifiant to me. It was
almost as if they were sisters.... Tying it in with Ava's
collages was wonderful QFanny.
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By seedsweet
|
02-14-2001,
09:24 AM |
This is my first time posting on this board, I've been trying
to catch up on some of the mythology. I just saw something
that I thought might add to the discussion. I was watching
trailers for upcoming movies last night and they have a new
cartoon coming out called Atlantis. I don't know if anyone
else saw this, but it showed a symbol from Atlantis that was
the swirl with a dot in the center. It was the same exact
symbol they have on Roswell. (I can't remember right now, but
I think it's the one from the communicator) A connection
between Max, Liz and Atlantis might make for some interesting
mythology.
Of course, they might just be copy-catting our favorite
show.
| |
By Alexis |
02-14-2001,
09:51 AM |
Shapeshifter—thanks for the response! I thought the writing on
the orb was more blue, but the writing on the pentagonal
device looked more purple! Does that mean GA=blue and
EA=purple; also alludes to 2 ships?
| |
By aldebaran
|
02-14-2001,
09:59 AM |
seedsweet - I am not sure if this will work, but I am trying
to post a pic from the Disney website for "Atlantis: The Lost
Empire". The pic should show the symbol that you said was
similar to the swirl from Roswell. BTW, talk about an
extensive website - they have stuff on research (ie maps,
legends, culture, etc.). Interesting.
(edited because it didn't work. I will try
again)
| |
By aldebaran
|
02-14-2001,
10:03 AM |
Here is that pic, seedsweet. Hopefully it works this time!!
| |
By *anne* |
02-14-2001,
10:37 AM |
Hey!
I've been gone for awhile, but I'm back now (If anyone
really noticed I was gone ). Anyways, having had my head stuck
in Harry Potter books for the last week (I just finished the
third last night - If you haven't read them, they are really
good, and I highly reccomend them no matter what age you are),
I had a little thought.
Anyone read the third Harry Potter book, The Prisoner of
Azkaban? I don't want to spoil anything, but if you have, do
you remember the end where Harry and Hermione go back in time
and realize that it's a repeated circle? That everything that
happened in normal time included that which they were doing
when going back in time? Does that make sense? The idea is
that all their actions went in a circle; everything would
continue to happen the same way as long as nothing prevented
it from (getting caught in the hallway, begin found by someone
else...etc). When I thought about it, it applied to The End of
The World. Now obviously, the future was different if FM
hadn't come to visit, but what if something changed in his
visit? What if someone went back when they could figure out
how to modify the granalith and changed his visit, thereby
changing time?
To those who haven't read Harry Potter (or at least the
third one) that won't make any sense! Is someone else able to
explain better for me? Somewhere in the back of my cluttered
mind this all relates back to Liz, I just have to work it out
more first!
Anne
| |
By
CharmedKitten |
02-14-2001,
10:37 AM |
quote:Originally posted by SweetJo: Hey RBIers
[b]The V shape is half of a diamond! Now, I think
diamonds have to have some major significance if they are
popping up all the time and they are 2 V shapes put
together.---> <> <> <> <>
[/B]
I have never noticed or thought about this! Thanks so much
SweetJo!
I was looking through the screencaps for DB for some fan
art when I noticed something. The scene at the end when the
camera is backing up from the back room. It's Brody in the
door way when we see the alien doll laying there. I'd post the
screencap but for some reason the crashdown isn't showing them
all now. And I can't get the address.
But I just thought that I'd post this anyway. I know that
we had talked about it and thought that it was Liz, but if you
look at the one before and then compare it to the one after
it's Brody. Foreshadowing?
| |
By Zero |
02-14-2001,
04:53 PM |
Hi All !
Just a quick pop-in -
SweetJo - I think that is a great catch that the "V" shape
makes a <> Diamond! Also, to tie in the talk about
mirrors, if you place a V against a mirror, it gives the
illusion of a diamond. The mirror image stuff from Ava's
Drawings, etc. Ummm......!
Okay - I love this stuff!
Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-14-2001,
05:11 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Zero: Hi All !
Just a quick pop-in -
SweetJo - I think that is a great catch that the "V" shape
makes a <> Diamond! Also, to tie in the talk about
mirrors, if you place a V against a mirror, it gives the
illusion of a diamond. The mirror image stuff from Ava's
Drawings, etc. Ummm......!
Okay - I love this stuff!
Zero I Shall Believe!
OK, let's see if this works. If you look at a diamond,
which the Granolith definitely looks like, it is made up of
many different V's...I hope this pic works to explain what I
am talking about...
Hmmmmm...
| |
By Trillian
|
02-14-2001,
05:25 PM |
I know this is a little OT, but the new pulse question at
thewb.com asks which couple we want reunited for valentine's
day...Max and Liz are in the lead so far...go
vote!! http://talknow.thewb.com/Poll/index.php
| |
By
CharmedKitten |
02-14-2001,
05:30 PM |
Metaphysicalgirl: I really think you're on to something with
that. Aren't diamonds used for lasers and such to help direct
their rays better? Could the granolith be a prism of some sort
to channel things?
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-14-2001,
06:42 PM |
Okay, crazy things have been coming out of my brain all day,
so just ignore if this doesn't connect. But the Granolith
looks like a diamond as Metaphys. has shown, which reminds me
of the diamonds on the old phonograph record player arms that
were used to read the pattern of the grooves on the record
album and transmit it to the speakers which tranlated it into
sound (which is how we were able to do things like spin the
Beatles' album backwards by hand to hear the song "Number 9"
say "Turn me on, dead man"). Anyway, so the Granolith could
perhaps pick up vibes (remember Amy's figure of speech?) and
maybe send them out to the beepers among other things.
Okay, so I'm crazy. And I really get a kick out of watching
the pillow fight in reverse and Grant's snarl too. Try it,
you'll like it. Is it Monday yet?
| |
By Zara |
02-14-2001,
07:40 PM |
Zara's off in the morning for a rendezvous with the large
mouse. My boys have no idea - it's been the best-kept secret
of the year... They'll find out when they wake up in the
morning.
Anyway, we're taking a laptop but I don't know if we'll
have an internet connection, so I may be out of pocket for a
while. I'll miss reading all your musings. Keep up the great
work.
Next year maybe we'll catch the northern lights!
later!
Zara
| |
By Reggie |
02-14-2001,
08:29 PM |
quote:Originally posted by StarBox: Also - in EOTW we found
out that Tess is necessary to balance their powers - but Tess
is not exactaly the brightest cookie in the box (perhaps part
of why Max is not attracted to her) - in fact in EOTW Liz
tries to "Lure" Max to Tess with a tight fitting top and a
BOOK. Yes, but a book Max is interested in! She's trying
to make Tess as interesting as possible to Max; trying
everything but putting Tabasco sauce on her!
I really do think that, eventually, we'll find that Tess
was the smallest of small-town BEMs, and that she has a lot in
common with Liz. Specificly including brains! Notice, in
Wipe-Out, Tess figured out that it was the Skins, and took the
lead in giving Courtney a little Q&A. Some gals (so I'm
told - what do I know?) intentionally hide their intelligence
around guys to appear more attractive. Harding may have
trained Tess to do this, and to be Max's yes-woman. In the
future, I hope we see more of Tess, and less of Yess.
Note that Ava (more like the original Bride) is sharp
enough to do that collage at silverhandprint.com, and she got
on well with Liz. King Max has good taste in women; I trust
that both (all 3?) of them are worthy.
| |
By Zero |
02-14-2001,
08:42 PM |
Hi All !
Zara - We took my laptop to the land of the Big Mouse last
November, and as long as you have a local phone number
connection for your internet access, it works just fine! So -
we hope to hear from you!! Have a wonderful time! I had to
watch Roswell in the dark up close to the TV while everyone
else slept when there - it was a true sign of obsession!
Shapeshifter - I now HAVE to rewatch those scenes
backwards. I admit to being old enough to remember the "Paul
is Dead - listen to the album backwards" histeria! I think the
diamond pattern is purposefully been included everywhere, and
your thoughts make sense to me.
Met - Great picture of a Diamond. Little did we think that
our little "V" discussion of long ago would lead to a
connection to the ultimate mystery (other than Liz and Max's
connection ) - the Granolith! StarBox - this would be a good
picture to add to the beginning.
Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By SweetJo
|
02-14-2001,
09:01 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Metaphysicalgrl: OK, let's see
if this works. If you look at a diamond, which the Granolith
definitely looks like, it is made up of many different V's...I
hope this pic works to explain what I am talking about...
Hmmmmm...
Holy Cow
I had no idea that I would even make sense with the whole V
shape/diamond thing last night Really, I thought I was being
stupid! I sure am glad that I have finally helped out for once
About the actual diamond having all those V shapes in it.
WOW Great observation Metaphys!
Lots of Love, SweetJo I SHALL BELIEVE!!!!!
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-14-2001,
09:33 PM |
Great Job Sweet Jo!! Excellent observation on your part as
well....
Since we were already talking about the Granolith, I
figured I would do some research on the subject...
OK, there wasn't much out there but the definition of the
word Granolith is...
granolith
SYLLABICATION: gran·o·lith
PRONUNCIATION: grn´-lth´´
NOUN : A paving stone of
crushed granite and cement.
OTHER FORMS:
gran´´o·lith´ic — ADJECTIVE
Now the weird thing that I can't figure out, is that when I
did a search on the word, this is what I saw...(if you go to
highway61.com and type in the search what is a
granolith...this comes up. VERY WEIRD)
1)granolith. The American Heritage Dictionary of the
English ... 'The End of the World'
http://srd.yahoo.com/goo/Granolith/1/*http://www.bartleby.com
(Yahoo)
OK. For the LIFE of me I can't figure out WHY ON EARTH it
would say 'The End of the World'. There was nothing on the
page about Granolith's to indicate why it was there.
And, do we think it was a mere coincidence that the
definition of the word Granolith contains the word
Cement??....or perhaps maybe the writers were playing word
games with us...
Also, I guess they use this Granolith stone in laying
floors.
Anyway, I really don't know what to make of all of this
information. However, I'm sure the writers had something in
mind...now if we can only just figure it out!!
Smiles, {~}:}
| |
By StarBox
|
02-14-2001,
09:37 PM |
Hope everyone had a nice Valentines Day :-)
Zara - have a GREAT trip - what fun!!!
Metaphysical/Zero - I am adding the diamond to the gallery
as soon as I post this.
Reggie - whenever you talk about Max and his little harem
it gives me the Heebie-Jeebies!! Its like the worst possible
abysss Roswell could descend into - Roswell 90210 - will it be
Brenda or Kelly??? Blech. I just really, really, really
hope that the writers will elevate the connection between Max
and Liz and give it a sacredness and purity and allow our hero
and heroine to have a transcendant love.
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-14-2001,
09:53 PM |
OK...on the off chance that those of you on this thread have
not yet seen this...
A friend of mine who is VERY spoiled sent this to me this
morning...I think it was posted on the spoiler board. Anyway,
you all just really need to see this. Here's the
link! http://www.geocities.com/dreamersvalentine/
Happy Valentines Day All!!
{~}:}
p.s. It's um, very worth it!!!!! p.p.s. And it's NOT
SPOILERISH at all. p.p.p.s. ENJOY (I know I
did)
| |
By nermal |
02-15-2001,
12:00 AM |
Metaphysicalgrl:
I think I figured out that reference to The End of the
World tie in with the granolith.
This is after the word granolith:
Stein, G. Stevenson, R.L. Wells, H.G. Reference
Of of these authors must tie in a granolith to the end of
the world. Maybe HG Wells, The Time Machine, though I never
read it.
Darn, now i might have to go to the library.
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-15-2001,
12:17 AM |
Zero, Thank you for humoring me on my backwards pillow fight.
It actually is sort of like a between-the-lines sort of thing
in a slapstick sort of way.
Anyway, I have linked the Surprise ep threads on
http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/LizMythology/index.html for
those of us who might want to obsess on the Granolith some
more. And if you have a Network Administrator at your work
place who is monitoring your use of designated "chat" sites
like this board (even during your non-existent lunch hour),
the above link should be safe. ANYWAY, if you click on the The
Science Fiction of Surprise link, and do a Ctrl+F, and search
for "granolith," you will find (among other things) the
following: quote:Just looked up Granolith in the Shorter
Oxford English Dictionary: it comes from "grain," specifically
meaning "a seed," and "lithic," a "rock." So: a "seed rock."
The OED, for the non-librarians among you, is more or less a
dictionary in the form of a large set of encyclopedias that
records the meanings of the origins of words.
And Starbox, while I share your cringe-factor on Reggie's
harem analysis, I thought he expressed it so well that we must
suffer its credibility.
| |
By Alexis |
02-15-2001,
08:13 AM |
Starbox—I am with you about the whole Roswell 90210 bit. I
actually had a dream the other night that Luke Perry was going
to guest star on Roswell and I got in a tuff and walked away
saying “That’s it! No more Roswell for me!”
| |
By
bluecornmoon |
02-15-2001,
11:41 AM |
"The Time Machine" does not have a "Granolith" in it. I don't
think the Elons ever named the granite structure where they
lived, and were fed, by the Murlocks! I'm sure it wasn't "The
War of the Worlds" either, so H.G. Wells may have used the
word in "The First Man on the Moon"?, but, if it was, it was
neither important nor relevant to our quest! Moore probably
dreamed it one night, while thinking about Pern! If I'm not
mistaken, the dragons have a sort of monolith in the place of
their birth!
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-15-2001,
12:46 PM |
quote:Originally posted by bluecornmoon: but, if it was, it
was neither important nor relevant to our quest! Moore
probably dreamed it one night, while thinking about Pern!
How can you be so sure? I'm not sure why 'The End Of The
World' came up on my search...but frankly, I thought it was
more than Odd that it did. Even if it was just a mere
coincidence.
And the fact that the definition of Granolith -- has the
word cememt in it, kind of says to me that no, it's not just a
random coincidence.
I mean, have you ever heard of anybody refer to sexual
intercourse as 'cementing' before?
And even if we are barking up the wrong tree here and it
has no greater meaning...I think it was funny on the writer's
part to put that in there, because I am of the mind that it
was deliberate.
{~}:}
| |
By moon
maiden |
02-15-2001,
02:58 PM |
Hey everyone! Hope you all had a great Valentine's Day ! I've
been MIA for a while, my husband and I are buying our first
house. Can anyone say PAPERWORK HELL?!?! Anyway, it's great to
be back.
Shapeshifter: Thanks for the kind words on the last thread.
I don't know how much credibility I would have with your
22-year-old, though, because I was 21 when we got married and
had our son at 22. We had dated for four years though, so it
was time for us to move to the next level.
Met: I'm not sure if this means anything, but diamonds are
the only substance hard enough to cut granite. I visited a
place that makes headstones once, and the saw that was used to
cut the granite had a quarter-inch thick layer of diamonds all
around it. Your definition of granolith made me think of it.
Diamonds are the hardest substance known to man, aren't they?
Perhaps the ability to cut most anything was the reason a
diamond was used in the granolith.
Also, when diamonds first became popular in jewelry they
were not cut and polished like they are now. They were mounted
in their natural form, which looks like an octahedron (think
of two pyramids joined at the bases). The diamond looked
like a small pyramid sticking up out of the mounting. If I can
find the site this info came from again I'll try to post some
pics (emphasis on try ).
I think someone mentioned octahedrons in relation to the
shape of the pods once, but I can't remember who.
Like I said, don't know if this means anything, just
thought I'd throw it out there.
| |
By Zero |
02-15-2001,
03:20 PM |
Hi All !
Met - I agree with you that it was probably not a
coincidence and was deliberate on the part of the writers. JK
and RM are too smart not to think these things out -
especially with such a major piece like the Granolith. Now, I
don't think they are as thougtful as Josh W over on Buffy w/
respect to where they are taking the show, but I think that is
due to being a new show and pressures for ratings from TPTB.
However, I do think they have a general idea of where they
want to go, and lay clues for us throughout including the
names they give things! I just wish we could get all the
Dreamers to read this thread, if only the Hero's Journey
portion, and I think it would give them hope for M & L.
Only, it may not be on a timeline that they like - which I can
sympathize with. But then, isn't that what some of the Hero's
Journey and other "growth" storylines involve. I'm a very
patient person (okay, not all the time ), and can hold out as
long as the storylines are moving along in a logical and
interesting fashion, and the characterizations (especially Liz
and Max) are not corrupted.
Also, TOT - did anyone else see the coming attractions for
"Once and Again" last night. Next week's episode involves the
actor who plays "Sean" (Devon G.) as a disgruntled waiter (?)
holding everyone hostage at the restaurant. I wonder what this
means with respect to his future on Roswell. (Remember - if
you know - which I do NOT - No Spoilers. I just thought it was
interesting that he is showing up on another show given his
apparent importance to Liz's storyline right now.)
Oh BTW - I can't remember who posted the link to Max's
Italian commercial - but thank you - it was a true Valentine's
Day treat. I just wish it was a bigger picture on my computer!
Sorry this was so OT - but without a show to analyze this
week, I'm spacing a bit!
Hope everyone had a wonderful Valentine's Day yesterday!
Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By
bluecornmoon |
02-15-2001,
03:30 PM |
Metaphysicalgrl: Sorry I didn't explain myself! I meant any
use of the word Granolith by H.G. Wells in "First Man in the
Moon" (only possibility), would not have been relevant to our
search. Not that the "TEOTW" appeared in the explanation of
"G". That is an amazing coincidence (and I don't believe in
them!), and I look forward to finding out what the connection
is!
"I mean, have you ever heard of anybody refer to sexual
intercourse as 'cementing' before?" Nope. Only us. But
I'll never be able to see a cement truck in the same light
again! I giggle when I see one and everybody around me gives
me "those" looks!
| |
By luvjb |
02-15-2001,
03:34 PM |
Liz is the bride...she has to be!
for = Roswell!!!
| |
By Reggie |
02-15-2001,
04:00 PM |
quote:Originally posted by
bluecornmoon: Metaphysicalgrl: Sorry I didn't explain
myself! I meant any use of the word Granolith by H.G. Wells in
"First Man in the Moon" (only possibility), would not have
been relevant to our search. Not that the "TEOTW" appeared in
the explanation of "G". That is an amazing coincidence (and I
don't believe in them!), and I look forward to finding out
what the connection is! <sigh> You're probably
looking at it. Some computer searches are very thorough. It
may have picked up on the usage of "granolith" in the TV show
episode "The End of the World"...
As for granite (grain, as in seeds + -ite, rock): this rock
is visibly made up of little black and white grains. It has a
nice salt & pepper appearance, for those that have never
seen it.
Someone had the definition of granolith as a stepping
stone. That makes perfect sense, if the thing is an FTL matter
transmitter / receiver. It is a "stepping stone",
metaphoricly. The FTL part also can be used as a time machine.
It fits, folks, it fits!
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-15-2001,
04:16 PM |
quote:Originally posted by moon maiden:
Met: I'm not sure if this means anything, but diamonds
are the only substance hard enough to cut granite. I visited a
place that makes headstones once, and the saw that was used to
cut the granite had a quarter-inch thick layer of diamonds all
around it. Your definition of granolith made me think of it.
Diamonds are the hardest substance known to man, aren't they?
Perhaps the ability to cut most anything was the reason a
diamond was used in the granolith.
Also, when diamonds first became popular in jewelry they
were not cut and polished like they are now. They were mounted
in their natural form, which looks like an octahedron (think
of two pyramids joined at the bases). The diamond looked
like a small pyramid sticking up out of the mounting. If I can
find the site this info came from again I'll try to post some
pics (emphasis on try ).
I think someone mentioned octahedrons in relation to the
shape of the pods once, but I can't remember who.
Like I said, don't know if this means anything, just
thought I'd throw it out there.
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-15-2001,
04:24 PM |
Octahedron Vertices: 6 Edges: 12 Faces: 8 Edges
per face:3 Edges per vertex: 4 Sin of angle at edge: 2 *
sqrt(2) / 3 Surface area: 2 * sqrt(3) *
edgelength^2 Volume: sqrt(2) / 3 *
edgelength^3 Circumscribed radius: sqrt(2) / 2 *
edgelength Inscribed radius: sqrt(6) / 6 * edgelength
OK, the only reason I posted this is because I thought it
was really funny that they had faces = 8 2 sets of 4
podsters..
Obiously, I have way too much time on my hands today...
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-15-2001,
04:40 PM |
OK, and just when you thought I was done for the day....I kept
seeing Fluorite Octahedrons being mentioned when I was looking
for info on Octahedrons.
I thought it was very interesting what these were used for.
Balancing!! that's what!! Fluroite helps one to balance
and stabilize the emotional, mental, and physical bodies.
Now, this is a picture of teensy, tiny, fluorite
Octahedrons. Can you imagine the POWER that one the size of
the Granolith would be able to give off?
Anyway, just an interesting observation. Since we have no
idea WHAT the Granolith is actually made of, it probably is
kind of pointless to speculate about these things -- HOWEVER
since we didn't have a new episode this week, it's better than
nothing!!
And I love seeing words like "cement" and "Balance" pop up
while I'm researching this stuff!!!
I did also find this interesting page
http://epimedia.com/gravitypush/one_b.htm
Someone who is adept at science should check it out and let
us know your thoughts...It's about Net Kinetic energy
differential guidance and propulsion system for satellites and
space vehicles. I couldn't make much sense out of it except
that it had something to do with octahedrons.
Yes, I am aware that I am losing my mind...I promise I
won't post anymore today!!
Smiles, {~}:}
| |
By Vihmakass
|
02-15-2001,
04:59 PM |
Hi! I have some thoughts : bride - not married -
yet queen - coronated after marriage. If Tess was queen
- who is bride? sry. if Im misunderstood
something... Vihmakass
| |
By Zero |
02-15-2001,
05:22 PM |
Hi All !
First - Welcome to the Newbies!
Met - You are amazing!! What intersting finds! What did
people do before the internet? Oh - I remember - spend hours
at the library! Can you PM a brief summary of what you found,
and I will include it in the next up-date to the Intro! That
picture of the pentagon formed from the octehegon (sp?) is
amazing, and I love the "balance" find!
As we always say - it ALL leads back to Liz! I wonder if
anyone from the show ever reads what we chat about, and then
laughs outloud!!
I'm still working on a contact with a Set Decorator, but we
may have to rely on Bluecornmoon's friend havind lunch with
Bill, and Qfanny or anyone else going to LA next week.
TTFN! :lo: Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-15-2001,
05:31 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Zero: Met - You are amazing!!
What intersting finds! What did people do before the internet?
Oh - I remember - spend hours at the library! Can you PM a
brief summary of what you found, and I will include it in the
next up-date to the Intro! That picture of the pentagon formed
from the octehegon (sp?) is amazing, and I love the "balance"
find!
As we always say - it ALL leads back to Liz! I wonder if
anyone from the show ever reads what we chat about, and then
laughs outloud!!
I'm still working on a contact with a Set Decorator, but we
may have to rely on Bluecornmoon's friend havind lunch with
Bill, and Qfanny or anyone else going to LA next week.
TTFN! :lo: Zero I Shall Believe!
Hey Zero...
Thanks for the compliment! I would PM you a summary, but
I'm not sure exactly what I found!! I will try and put
something together for you. I literally had too much free time
on my hands today.
In regards to the set designer stuff...I have updated all
the questions I have received so far (none from you, by the
way!!) at the beginning of this thread. I will keep doing that
as it's updated, and keep bringing it over to each new thread
until our questions are answered.
Allrighty then. I'm so excited that something I've inputted
into the discussion is FINALLY going to be included in your
amazing intro!
*dances a little jig of glee*
Smiles, {~}:}
| |
By TVPooh |
02-15-2001,
05:52 PM |
hmm... the Octahedron flower looks just like that game kids
play where they try to predict their futures. I forget the
name of it but the fold a piece of paper so it looks just like
that flower and then they have a friend aska question, then
pick a number, a color, and I think another number and then
they lift up the flap and it says something. now how much you
wanna bet if we asked "is Liz important to the alien
mythology?" it would say "it is certain!"
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-15-2001,
06:33 PM |
quote:Originally posted by TVPooh: hmm... the Octahedron
flower looks just like that game kids play where they try to
predict their futures. I forget the name of it but the fold a
piece of paper so it looks just like that flower and then they
have a friend aska question, then pick a number, a color, and
I think another number and then they lift up the flap and it
says something. now how much you wanna bet if we asked "is Liz
important to the alien mythology?" it would say "it is
certain!" I think we called them "fortune tellers" but my kids
called them "nose pinchers"
| |
By Reggie |
02-15-2001,
08:17 PM |
quote:Originally posted by StarBox: Hope everyone had a
nice Valentines Day :-) Reggie - whenever you talk about
Max and his little harem it gives me the Heebie-Jeebies!!
Is this a general freak-out, or should I be worried?
Seriously, I don't think of Max having a "harem". King,
Zan, or Max: I really don't see him as having been in love
more than twice. Once on Twilo, with The Bride (Ava/Tess);
once on Earth, with Liz. If he was married before on Twilo,
that would make three times. How many of us have been in love,
two or three times? OK. So if Max takes two lifetimes to do
it, is it so toe-curling bad?
Especially since Max is not in love with Tess at the same
time as Liz. (He barely knows Ava, although she's probably
closer to the original mind of The Bride.) He fell in love
with Liz, and did not go off with Tess even though, goodness
knows, he had the chance. It will be interesting to see his
reaction when Tess and Kyle become an official couple. (Almost
as interesting as Liz... )
Valentine's Day? Would have been better with company.
| |
By Reggie |
02-15-2001,
08:32 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Metaphysicalgrl: I did also find
this interesting page
http://epimedia.com/gravitypush/one_b.htm
Someone who is adept at science should check it out and let
us know your thoughts...It's about Net Kinetic energy
differential guidance and propulsion system for satellites and
space vehicles. I couldn't make much sense out of it except
that it had something to do with octahedrons.
You couldn't make much sense out of it because it's
nonsense. When someone asserts that gravity doesn't exist,
and matter as we know it (quarks, etc.) doesn't either, then
I...... think I'll pass on accepting that theory as truth.
At least until there's better evidence than pseudo-technical
blather and pretty pictures.
| |
By HyperKitN
|
02-15-2001,
08:48 PM |
Alde (sorry for shorting your name) but that is interesting
what you said about the "a Queen and the Queen" this may play
into old theories of Tess maybe from a different faction of
the podsters and had to marry Max to join two kingdoms. So
this could have made her already a queen regardless of whether
she had married Max or not if she was the only heir to her
thrown.
also that octo-whatchmacallit could also have been the
orginal shape the 8 pods came in. then split in half.
Also just a side things here is that HG Well book (man on
the moon or something like that)you guys good. I have read the
previously mentioned ones and the invisible man and island of
dr. moreau. I like the guys and was wondering if it was good.
I'll have to come back later to write some more
Hyper
| |
By Zero |
02-15-2001,
08:54 PM |
quote:Originally posted by TVPooh: hmm... the Octahedron
flower looks just like that game kids play where they try to
predict their futures. I forget the name of it but the fold a
piece of paper so it looks just like that flower and then they
have a friend aska question, then pick a number, a color, and
I think another number and then they lift up the flap and it
says something. now how much you wanna bet if we asked "is Liz
important to the alien mythology?" it would say "it is
certain!"
Having two "kids" in the house, we have those "fortune
tellers" around the house all the time - in fact, my daughter
got two Harry Porter ones for Valentines yesterday. They are
pretty funny actually. BUT alas, they are only four sided,
since they are made from a series of 90 degree squares, not 60
degree equalateral triangles - which is what is used for the
flower.
Met - I PMed you!
Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-15-2001,
09:58 PM |
quote:Originally posted by HyperKitN: ...also that
octo-whatchmacallit could also have been the orginal shape the
8 pods came in. then split in half....Hyper , hi! Great
idea. It made me wonder if maybe there was a second
Granolith--that they split in two--but naahh, it's "The
Granolith," not "A Granolith."
| |
By Qfanny |
02-15-2001,
10:21 PM |
Met~~~ WOW! That octahedron stuff is really neat.
But I thought the granolith was 12 sided...
But let' assume that the octahedron shape having 8 faces
does in fact represent the dupes and R4. Is the octahedron a
solid or is it hollow? If you cut it in half, you have 4 sided
diamond. Who would fill in and hold the sides together? Could
it be Liz? Is Liz the center of the Octahedron and her
prophecy is what the "destiny" plan is protecting?
Too bad Zan's not around to fall in love with Liz.
Also, I want you to put on your thinking cap. This will be
tough to describe. If you visilize the original 4 square
symbol it has the four pods connected with intersecting lines.
Imagine the center a point for a 4 sided diamond. If put the 4
sided diamond on it's base (pyrmid like) and flatten it to two
dimensions, wouldn't it look like the original four square
symbol???
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-15-2001,
11:13 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Qfanny: ..But I thought the
granolith was 12 sided...Yep, it sure is. I just checked. But
it sure is V-shaped too.
| |
By SweetJo
|
02-16-2001,
01:19 AM |
quote:Originally posted by Qfanny:
Also, I want you to put on your thinking cap. This will be
tough to describe. If you visilize the original 4 square
symbol it has the four pods connected with intersecting lines.
Imagine the center a point for a 4 sided diamond. If put the 4
sided diamond on it's base (pyrmid like) and flatten it to two
dimensions, wouldn't it look like the original four square
symbol???
QFanny- Yes, I believe you are right! Great thoughts!
SweetJo I SHALL BELIEVE!!!!!
| |
By moon
maiden |
02-16-2001,
10:13 AM |
Met: GREAT JOB!!!!! Those flourite octahedrons look just like
the diamonds on the site I found. You know, it's probably been
a month since I ran across that stuff but I didn't think it
was important. Just shows us again--ignore nothing!!!! Really
great finds with the balance and cement, plus the 5
octahedrons to form the pentagon shape. You rock Met!!!
Qfanny: You're right! Actually, the person that mentioned
the octahedron shape in relation to the pods explained it just
backwards from you (does anyone remember who it was?!?). If
you pull the intersection of the lines up to a point you have
a four-sided pyramid. Whoever noticed this said that in the
pyramid shape, each podster would have the most room to grow.
If you pulled the intersection point of the lines in both
directions, would you have an octahedron??
| |
By aldebaran
|
02-16-2001,
10:38 AM |
Holy cow - I am totally not a visual, abstract kind of person,
so I have absolutely no clue what all of you are talking
about! In fact, I am so lost, it is laughable. I will just
continue to sit this one out. I just thought it was funny. I
am glad you all know what you mean!
| |
By Tasyfa |
02-16-2001,
11:18 AM |
quote:Originally posted by *anne*:
Anyone read the
third Harry Potter book, The Prisoner of Azkaban? I don't want
to spoil anything, but if you have, do you remember the end
where Harry and Hermione go back in time and realize that it's
a repeated circle? That everything that happened in normal
time included that which they were doing when going back in
time? Does that make sense? The idea is that all their actions
went in a circle; everything would continue to happen the same
way as long as nothing prevented it from (getting caught in
the hallway, begin found by someone else...etc). When I
thought about it, it applied to The End of The World. Now
obviously, the future was different if FM hadn't come to
visit, but what if something changed in his visit? What if
someone went back when they could figure out how to modify the
granalith and changed his visit, thereby changing time?
To those who haven't read Harry Potter (or at least the
third one) that won't make any sense! Is someone else able to
explain better for me? Somewhere in the back of my cluttered
mind this all relates back to Liz, I just have to work it out
more first!
Anne
While I haven't read this one yet (I just finished the 2nd
), I do know what you mean! David Eddings used a similar
device in The Mallorean series, which was a sequel to The
Belgariad series (plus it's been used several times as a Star
Trek plot device, and we all know who used to work there!).
The basic idea is this: a series of events occurs. This
same series of events keeps reoccurring until something
happens to break the cycle. In The Mallorean, what broke the
cycle was THE CHOICE. An absolutely critical choice had to be
made, and once it was made, then events stopped looping
through the cycle and began running on a normal, linear course
again.
So--given this, in Roswell terms could the choice refer to
Max's choice of his destiny, i.e., Tess or Liz? I think that's
a pretty critical choice. I mean, it's so much more than just
"I love Liz but I'm supposed to be with Tess." What Max
decides will impact on everyone; EOTW showed us that rather
graphically!
So here's a thought: maybe the reason proto-Zan ended up
dead was because he chose proto-Ava, not proto-Liz (I believe
Liz is human, but that souls transcend race--her soul existed
before, connected to Max's). EOTW might seem to contradict
this, but I think we're all pretty much agreed that it was the
timing of the choice that was off, not the choice itself. When
it IS the right time, which girl Max chooses will have a huge
impact on everything.
As for the Granolith, I speculated before that it was a
power-gathering device because of its shape, and the shape of
its chamber (a compass rose--an eight-pointed design, I might
add ). Nothing else makes any sense to me. Even if it is some
kind of matter-transmitter or something, it still needs power
in order to function, and I think its design is carefully
structured in order to gather as much power as possible.
Qfanny I thought that no one had pointed out the Ava=Tess +
Liz shot from MTD before; I was posting here by the time that
aired, and I didn't remember reading it. I'd noticed the shot
before, but when I watched it 2 weeks ago it totally hit me in
the face--I guess I was just in complete RBI mode! Thanks for
linking it to Ava's collage--that makes me intensely curious
now. And aldebaran, good catch on "a queen" not "the queen"
referring to Tess. I forget who said that perhaps proto-Ava
was the queen of her people and her marriage to proto-Zan was
a political alliance, but that's a very good idea.
BTW, I keep referring to the original Royal 4 as "proto-X"
b/c it's a linguistic term that more or less refers to the
earliest form of a language. I just thought it kind of fit,
and it creates less confusion that way Also, I'm posting
during the day b/c I'm home sick, so I'm sitting here all
bundled up and feeling miserable--but happy, b/c I'm pretty
much caught up now!
OT: If anyone's interested, I've put the entirety of my fic
"The Forging of a Lifebond" on the repost board at Jen007's
board--all 7 parts (what's completed to date; the fic isn't
finished). If anyone wants the addy, please PM me. Thanks for
indulging me ~Tas
| |
By StarBox
|
02-16-2001,
11:29 AM |
I have spent the past day goinh through the hybrid chronicle
screencaps and have lots of pics to post - so bear with me
:-) Also - here is a cap of the granolith for reference - I
am going to add this one to the gallery as well.
On the subject of octahedrons/diamond/triangle shapes -
check out the octagon at the Dupree's and Atherton's home for
reference.
Is it just me or is the resemblance here uncanny? I cant
imagine them casting such similar "looks" accidentaly.
Rosta's thread had some great information linking the
images of vines to the hybridization - look at these images
from the Dupree estate - Vines on the window:
Vines
on the gate:
Vines on Liz's jacket! Foreshadowing that
she has a role in the hybrid process too????
Creepy Sean in the mirror
Creepy Sean with his space
"gun" (killing aliens??) - but look at the pattern on the
couch as well. Sickles relate to Aries which relates to
Michael. Kind of cool.
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By StarBox
|
02-16-2001,
11:39 AM |
Big round of applause to Metaphysical/qfanny/shapeshifter/moon
maiden and everyone who has contributed to the discussion of
the octahedrons. AMAZING insights you all. Just fabulous!!!!
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By Alexis |
02-16-2001,
11:46 AM |
quote:Originally posted by StarBox:
Is it just me or is the resemblance here uncanny? I cant
imagine them casting such similar "looks" accidentaly.
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
JK did say that Jennifer and Larry were particular
favorites of his that he would like to bring back. Hmmmmmmm.
| |
By Zero |
02-16-2001,
12:00 PM |
Hi All !
Snow Day in the Seattle area today, so kids are home! It
should be crazy today!
Tasyfa and Anne - I have read all the Harry Porter books
(which are excellent for all ages BTW!), and the part that
Anne brought up is very interesting in how it relates here. In
the book, it is a voluntary decision to repeat time for
practical purposes that later becomes critical to the plot.
Different than the time-repeating sequence Tasyfa described. I
always think of the movie "Groundhogs Day" when I think of
that type of thing. "X-Files" recently has an episdoe that was
about a fellow who involuntarily kept repeating time, not
knowing what had actually happened, until he made a critical
"choice" that caused time to stop repeating and become linear
again. We chatted about it at the time we were discussing the
"Run, Lola, Run" connection to TEOTW. It will be interesting
to see how, and if they do, tie in the "time repeats itself"
storyline in at all. (Remember - there is a big difference
between "time repeating itsel" and "someone going back into
the past to change events." In the former, all the same
characters are present - like Groundhogs Day, but in the
latter one of the one character (or more) are in the past
along with their "past selves." In TEOTW, we had a case of
time travel in the Harry Potter form. I hope I'm not being
totally confusing.
I do agree that Max's ultimate choice will be key - and
that the timing of the original choice was key, not the person
who he choose. I hope I'm not babbling now!
I do think that the Granolith Chamber is a source of Great
Power - but how it derives that power and how it transmits or
uses it, is the big mystery!
All the information about diamonds, Vs, octehedrons is so
cool! I appreciate all the work you all have done to come up
with this info!
Starbox - Great pictures!
Finally - I never noticed the camera shots when the Dupes
first meet the Podsters - and I think that is VERY telling
that they grouped Tess and Liz in the counter shot to Ava!
Ummmm.....
Okay - off to Try and work with kids around! At least the
skiing should be great tomorrow morning!
Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By Reggie |
02-16-2001,
04:07 PM |
quote:Originally posted by moon maiden: Qfanny: You're
right! Actually, the person that mentioned the octahedron
shape in relation to the pods explained it just backwards from
you (does anyone remember who it was?!?). If you pull the
intersection of the lines up to a point you have a four-sided
pyramid. Whoever noticed this said that in the pyramid shape,
each podster would have the most room to grow. If you pulled
the intersection point of the lines in both directions, would
you have an octahedron?? That was me, and it was a
tetrahedron, not an octahedron. A tetrahedron has four
(triangular) sides, and four corners. (A triangular-based
pyramid, as it were.) If the bunch of pods was spread out in
3-D, putting each pod at a corner would give each pod the most
room to grow.
Your octahedron is composed of two square-based pyramids,
stuck base to base. There are eight sides, hence the name, and
six corners.It is not related to a tetrahedron. If you take a
square (like the pod symbol), and "pull up" the center, it
makes a square-based pyramid. If you push the center back
down, you get your square back. No coincidence. And if you did
this from both sides, yes, you'd have an octahedron. But
octahedra aren't related to anything in particular...
Here's my post, from Maxcedo's
files... http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/LizMythology/Thread28WAF1.htm
quote:By Reggie, 01-26-2001, 01:32 PM
( quote:Originally posted by Evid: ) It's strange how
Ava placed the names on both 4 squares. (...) As you can see
Lonnie and Ava are cress cross from each other and Zan and
Rath are also. (...) Now we have Max and Tess, who are cress
cross from each other, and Isabel and Michael are also.
{unquote}
Well, let's not get carried too far away,
here. The two "bunches" (units of four connected pods) were
probably each grown in a large artificial womb, to enable the
tissues of the pods themselves to grow and develop as well as
the embryos inside. As such, the four pods, connected at one
point, would naturally form themselves into a tetrahedron. (A
four-pointed pyramid, with triangular sides. Don't make me
explain geometric theory to you!) They'd have more room that
way. Since "Ava" drew the bunches flat, she couldn't represent
the 3-D shape exactly. Depending on how you lay them out, any
of the possible arrangements are accurate.
3-D visualization - it's a guy thing.
| |
By Qfanny |
02-16-2001,
05:47 PM |
yeah Reggie!
I remember that post, but I guess I didn't see the
relevance of the tetrahedron relating to all eight podsters. I
think that the octahedron's center is Liz, and she holds
everything together.
Thanks for reposting that. I knew I wasn't that brillant on
my own, and that I had help.
But I don't think visual aptitudes are gender based. I
am quite good at visual puzzles.
| |
By Zero |
02-16-2001,
07:16 PM |
Hi All!
Reggie - I'm glad that you re-posted your information from
before! It make so much more sense now with all the other
discussions. BTW - I agree with Qfanny - visualization is not
gender specific. I was a math major in college (many moons
ago), and I'm a very visual person. Also, when you were
describing the tetrahedron it made me thing of this puzzle of
a three sided pyramid that I was constructing with my daughter
at "Wizards of the Coast." It was fun! I agree, from a space
conservation, and practical travel approach, packing the four
pods in a tetrahedron shape makes sense!
It's amazing, even without an episode, we can find lots to
discuss!
Have a great evening! Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By Qfanny |
02-16-2001,
07:32 PM |
Everyone... This question has annoyed me for ages. But where
does this screencap come from, what episode!!!! I see it in
the promo, but I've never figured out what episode it's from..
courtesy of crashdown.com
While were at it, I've never noticed the sign before...
And what does 216 mean???
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-16-2001,
07:43 PM |
Okay, we must admit that we are all clutching at Max...er, uh,
I mean straws here, right? So here's a picture from the newest
Barbie Roswell Theatre of Future Max inside the
Granolith/blender.
| |
By Reggie |
02-16-2001,
07:47 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Qfanny: Everyone... This
question has annoyed me for ages. But where does this
screencap come from, what episode!!!! I see it in the promo,
but I've never figured out what episode it's from...
Palomino informs me that the running scene was in the
first season opening credits (except the Pilot); it was a cut
scene from the show. The "Alien Zone" is from the Pilot, near
the end, where the Sheriff is investigating Max at the Alien
Crash Party.
Anything else puzzling you?
| |
By Qfanny |
02-16-2001,
07:53 PM |
Okay guys, you've caught me looking through screencaps. I'm
making pictures for the trip. Anyway, lookie what I found.
There is a hidden planet in the V constellation.
See how the lights that form a V point to Liz, and there is
an extra "light" on the left side....
courtesy of crashdown.com
Here's the Royal Seal to compare. What do you think? Is
there a hidden planet?
| |
By Qfanny |
02-16-2001,
07:59 PM |
Reggie and Palomino:
I thought that the running scene may have been cut... Too
bad, I would like to know more about what was happening in it.
I knew that the Alien Zone screencap was from Pilot, I just
never noticed the picture before, and the 216 number followed
by N M. It seems to me it could be a clue to the Royal Four.
| |
By Reggie |
02-16-2001,
08:16 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Qfanny: I remember that post,
but I guess I didn't see the relevance of the tetrahedron
relating to all eight podsters. I think that the octahedron's
center is Liz, and she holds everything together.
There were two bunches of pods. One was sent to NY, the
other kept in NM. The "lobes" or "arms" of each bunch would
reach out in the directions of the corners of a tetrahedron.
This isn't some mystic order; it's just the shape of the
thing, and why the names don't list in any particular order.
Where did we come up with an octahedron? It's got 8 sides,
of course, but six corners: OK if you have podsters in
sixes... but ours come by the four. We got two bunches. (As
far as we know...)
| |
By Reggie |
02-16-2001,
08:22 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Qfanny: There is a hidden planet
in the V constellation.
See how the lights that form a V point to Liz, and there is
an extra "light" on the left side.... Palomino's reaction:
(direct quote, honest!) "Oh, fer Pete's sake! No!"
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-16-2001,
09:39 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Reggie:
Originally posted by Qfanny: There is a hidden planet in
the V constellation.
See how the lights that form a V point to Liz, and there is
an extra "light" on the left side....
Palomino's reaction: (direct quote, honest!) "Oh, fer
Pete's sake! No!"Hey Palomino & Reggie, back with more
straws to Max, er, uh, clutch at. See, there's possibly
another planet there:
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-17-2001,
12:18 AM |
quote:Originally posted by Reggie:
Sometimes a cigar is
just a cigar.
Yeah, tell THAT to Bill Clinton!!
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I'm actually a Clinton fan...
| |
By HyperKitN
|
02-17-2001,
12:32 AM |
Man reading my last post over again I think I was momentarily
caught dumb.
Anyway, QF cool pic. Which eppy was that. My head hurt too
much to try and figure it out from your pic.
Here is a question-Now that we know where Michael came from
are the others going to find there human DNA "families" as
well?
Also have you guys seen the trailor for the movie that
Colin is in on TV. Just thought I'd mention it since they kept
showing it during the WB shows 2night.
Can't wait till Monday for more question and little
answers. Which is good so we can play a little more, hehehe
Hyper
| |
By Chad Evans
|
02-17-2001,
02:08 AM |
Hey Zero.
I've been discussing Liz's character on my thread at
http://bbs.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/005099.html Could I get
you and any other Liz fans to head over and tell me if I am
seeing her like I'm supposed to? Thanks.
Chad Evans "Because you can do impossible things." -Dar
to Curupira in "The Demon Curupira".
| |
By Qfanny |
02-17-2001,
09:44 AM |
In the far off chance I get to meet a PTB, I do plan to ask
where the heck TicTac is, but if there are other questions, PM
me and let me know... thanks, I have to pack now.
The picture of Liz with the lights behind her is from Ask
Not.
| |
By Reggie |
02-17-2001,
03:07 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Qfanny: In the far off chance I
get to meet a PTB, I do plan to ask where the heck TicTac is,
but if there are other questions, PM me and let me know...
thanks, I have to pack now.
When are you leaving? Are
you taking a laptop so we can pass q&a?
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-17-2001,
06:31 PM |
Okay, let's try this. At
http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/stuff/xliz.htm you should be
able to hear GraceKel's daughter's famous catch of "We've got
to get rid of her" as Liz is flashing alien pictures to
tourists.
Also, at http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/stuff/xliz2.htm
is the shorter version (recommended for those of us with slow
connections).
| |
By Qfanny |
02-17-2001,
06:46 PM |
Okay, I've got the xliz.wav file on disk.
I'll be making print outs of TicTac V Harding.
| |
By
AnonWatcher |
02-17-2001,
09:18 PM |
Qfanny I am looking forward to you Tic-Tac vs. Harding post..
A few ideas- The relationship: Why did these 2 not stay
together??... There is safety in numbers, right?? You would
think that they'd want to stay together on Earth..
I think that Harding ruined the mission for the Granolith,
either he was contracted by Kivar or the thought of all the
Granolithic power for himself? There were 2 other alien
corpses at the crashsite.. I think that they were killed by
Harding after the crash. I believe that Tic-Tac didn't know
about Hardings betrayal until after they rescued the
pods.. More to come...
| |
By Qfanny |
02-17-2001,
10:26 PM |
AnonWatcher:
I wasn't really going to post my comments on TicTac V
Harding here. I was going to print off screencaps and print
out the information Zero summarizes in her introduction, as
well as making a print out of maxcedo's file. Specifically,
www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/tictac.htm and the following
discussion of previous posts at
http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/tictac2.htm
One of the nice things about maxcedo's it is an instant
reference to the big theories that evolved from season one...
So if you want to, you can read up on what was discussed right
away... I am really running short on time before my flight. I
leave on Tuesday, but today I must be packed because tomorrow
I am cleaning, Monday's are always hectic and Tuesday I am
leaving.
Attention I am making a print out of Zero's introduction
of thread 29. I am going to put this in a binder and I hope I
will have the chance to give this to Shiri and let her know
how much we love her and how much we love Liz!
I want to give as many posters on this thread as much
credit as possible, if you email me with the subject. Liz Myth
- (your screenname) I will type up an acknowledgement on the
inside folder with your name.
I just want to let you know that I do not know if I will
actually meet Shiri... But in the off chance I do, I would
love to be able to tell her, and show her just how dedicated
we are!
nimedeus@aol.com You do not have to type anything in the
message, just tell me Liz Myth - Your Screenname and I will
put it on the sheet.
| |
By
Roswell_Gurl_Foreva |
02-17-2001,
11:24 PM |
I don't think Liz is alien. Maybe just a hybird. Who knows
maybe Ava made her able to do it. Oh well. I hope she is
human!!
| |
By Zero |
02-18-2001,
12:40 AM |
Hi All !
Qfanny - I e-mailed you! Let me know if you don't get it. I
included the Intro in a Word document. Have a blast in La La
Land!
Can hardly wait for Monday night!
Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By Vihmakass
|
02-18-2001,
01:50 AM |
I have some thoughts: -There is the royal seal in Max
brain. I think he got it from Liz when they kiss in
BD.This is reason whay Zan looked for somebody. And in
SH when Tic-tac saw Liz, Max and orb together - he smile - he
know - it has happened. (sry.language, I hope you
understood what I mean)
| |
By Chad Evans
|
02-18-2001,
02:35 AM |
quote:Originally posted by Vihmakass: I have some
thoughts: -There is the royal seal in Max brain. I think
he got it from Liz when they kiss in BD.This is reason
whay Zan looked for somebody. And in SH when Tic-tac saw
Liz, Max and orb together - he smile - he know - it has
happened. (sry.language, I hope you understood what I mean)
How would Liz, an admitted human, imprint the sign of the
Royal Family of Antar onto a hybrid created by said people? I
need some clarification on that one.
Chad Evans "Because you can do impossible things." -Dar
to Curupira in "The Demon Curupira".
| |
By Vihmakass
|
02-18-2001,
04:00 AM |
That handprint thing in pilot. First Max healing Liz with
left hand and then in the evening there is right
hand. This is first time when we saw Max using left
hand.Next time we saw Max using left hand is TEOTW and this
Max is from future. Look how Liz and Max dancing in Balance
and how they dance in TEOTW. Maybe there is two dimensions
mess up? Sry.Left/Right hand thing playd in BD too. From
how or where Liz has royal seat? First I want answer for
question - in first time Max get from Liz flash - how Max look
to her when he come from bus - then Liz get same flash back
from Max in Crashdown - how this is possible?If Liz has this
flash first - there is possible - she has royal seat
to. (Sry.gram.)
| |
By Chad Evans
|
02-18-2001,
05:39 AM |
quote:Originally posted by Vihmakass: That handprint thing
in pilot. First Max healing Liz with left hand and
then in the evening there is right hand. This is first
time when we saw Max using left hand.Next time we saw Max
using left hand is TEOTW and this Max is from future. Look
how Liz and Max dancing in Balance and how they dance in
TEOTW. Maybe there is two dimensions mess up?
I think we can chalk up the orientation of the silver
handprint switching from a left print to a right print as a
simple make up error. I am told there is a dimesional-swap
theory floating around about that one somewhere however.
Unfortunatly, I haven't seen any of the episodes you've
mentioned YET so I can't contribute there.
quote: From how or where Liz has royal seat? First I
want answer for question - in first time Max get from Liz
flash - how Max look to her when he come from bus - then Liz
get same flash back from Max in Crashdown - how this is
possible?If Liz has this flash first - there is possible - she
has royal seat to.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm...no. The first time Liz received a vision was
when Max healed her. He told her to look at him and placed his
hand over the wound. Visions flash and the wound heals. One of
the visions is Max seeing her in kindergarten in her cupcake
dress. Later at the Crashdown, Max sends her a vision of how
he first saw her stepping off the school bus when he was six
years old and she was on the playground.
There is nothing (at least that I have read or seen) to
suggest that Liz is anything but 100% totally human up to the
point before Max healed her. Ava says in "Max in the City"
that because of that, she was "changed." Max is a hybrid, a
combination of alien essence and human DNA. Those that created
him imprinted the image we saw in that episode on his brain to
identify him as a member of the Royal Family of Antar. I do
not believe Liz gave it to him. How could she have? She isn't
an alien. She's human.
Chad Evans "Because you can do impossible things." -Dar
to Curupira in "The Demon Curupira".
| |
By Vihmakass
|
02-18-2001,
05:49 AM |
No first time Max get flashis from Liz. And then he came
Crashdown and make connection back to Liz. In healing time
Liz send flashis and Max get them.
| |
By Vihmakass
|
02-18-2001,
07:09 AM |
Maybe Im little bit.... But does anybody tell me how this
diamonds get reflections? Little bit about optical efects
please ? How mirrors become this picture? And why
mirrors, reflections,right/left hand and Liz coexisting so
well? I do think there is someting with dimensions and Liz
being between here and there. In the credits is moment -
Liz in Crashdown and Max like reflection in the
window. Btw. things getting reflections must be clear! No
cement - I think.
Sry. about royal seal - it right - Max didnt get it from
Liz.Why I change my mind? Look again MITC.When the
ambassador (or What)say "Your Hignes"- after Max reflection
in his map!
sry.gram.
| |
By *anne* |
02-18-2001,
07:12 AM |
Zero: You say it so much better than me! At least someone has
a less cluttered mind than myself....
Taysfa: I completely agree that whomever Max chooses will
have a deep impact on our gang. We've already seen what would
have happened had Max chosen Liz as planned, but since that is
no longer possible, what could happen now? Although my dreamer
heart shudders at the thought of Tess as more than a friend to
Max, I am still nonetheless intrigued at the possibilities and
issues that will occur as a cause. Tess brings out the alien,
more aggressive side of Max. Liz brings out the human,
compassionate side. Max will need a mix of both. Liz is better
suited to bring out that mix than Tess. That said, however,
Liz can also become a liability by his need to be with her,
protect her, and his love for her. Tess is no-strings: he
doesn't love her, and doesn't feel the need to protect her.
Now, especially after FM's visit, it would be interesting to
see what will happen.
Seriously OT question: Where can I find the latest Barbie
Roswell Theater? They are so funny!
Anne
| |
By Palomino
|
02-18-2001,
07:17 AM |
Just to clarify the arguement between Chad Evans and
Vihmakass(I hope I spelled it right):
1. Max had to connect with Liz to heal her. HE got flashes
from her - without her knowing. LIZ SENT NOTHING. She was a
dying human. It was the same with Kyle.
2. Max later went to the Crash Down and tried something
with her that he was not sure would work. He said he was going
to "try to reverse the connection so you can see it's still
me". He said he had to touch her and she gave permission. AT
NO TIME WAS LIZ EXHIBITING POWERS - ONLY MAX.
3. The change in her seems to be that she can recieve
flashes from Max only, as if she is tuned in to him.
4. The Royal Seal. Even if Liz had been an alien with lots
powers, and she had been carrying the Royal Seal herself, MAX
would already have it unless he was an imposter - the emissary
knew this and this is why Max was tested. The aliens would not
have certified Max as King Zan if the Royal Seal was that easy
to pass around. If it was transferrable, what was the point of
using it to identify the king? NONE.
If Liz carries her own Royal Seal, then she is an alien,
and they would have a difficult time of making it sound
plausible at this point. The heart of the show is the love
story inwhich an alien falls in love with a human despite
destiny and arranged couples. Who says aliens can't fall in
love at first sight too?
| |
By Vihmakass
|
02-18-2001,
07:41 AM |
nice! I like it! And what about that FM been
lefthanded. Our Max is right handed.And why then lefthanded
Max come to our Liz? (sry. if this is somewhere past
already discussed) And about reflections?
| |
By StarBox
|
02-18-2001,
07:56 AM |
quote:Originally posted by Palomino:
3. The change in her seems to be that she can recieve
flashes from Max only, as if she is tuned in to him.
[/B]
Liz also recieved flashes from Nasedo. WE do not know how
extensive her ability to "flash" is at this point. Also - I
want to make a point that the writing strongly suggests that
Liz had flashes WHILE she was being healed - before the
reverse connection. It is also clarified in EOTW that Kyle
(another dying human) did NOT get flashes during the healing.
Not that I think Liz has the royal seal on her brain - just
making a clarification about Liz's flashes.
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By Palomino
|
02-18-2001,
08:07 AM |
StarBox: I took nothing as strongly suggesting Liz had flashes
during her healing. The only thing that comes close to it Liz
asking Kyle if he saw things. This was just another example of
poor continuity on the show (along with poor science). If you
rewatch the first episodes, there was nothing to indicate
otherwise, only a writing flub that many of us caught when it
aired.
Vihmakass In "A Roswell Christmas Carol", Max heals the
children with both his left and right hands. (The little blond
boy across from Sydney was done with his left.) I would say
that he uses whichever is more convenient or comfortable at
the time. It's nice to know he can use either hand.
| |
By Vihmakass
|
02-18-2001,
09:03 AM |
.Do you know what Max healed in side that boy - maybe head -
with right hand? OK. That is ...but yes in ARCC Max used
left hand he healed a small lamp. I must inspect my
tougths.And then we meet again, OK? (SRY.gam.)
| |
By Palomino
|
02-18-2001,
11:19 AM |
Vihmakass
I don't think he healed anything in the boy with his right
hand. Probably the actor was told to use that hand because he
was on the left side of the bed, and using the right hand
would have put his elbow in the boy's face. There are other
episodes inwhich Max uses his left hand for his powers. I am
right handed, but I often do things with my left, especially
if it is more convenient. I am glad to see that Max is not
restricted to only his right hand. It makes sense that he
could use either.
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-18-2001,
11:37 AM |
shapeshifter here with her overactive romantic imagination. I
kind of like Chad Evan's idea of the Royal Seal being
associated with 'finding' someone. I doubt the writers will go
there, but it does make a nice fan-fic plot: The King has to
heal someone who is "the right one" in order for his Royal
Seal to be activated. In turn, that "someone" is changed into
someone special .
| |
By Palomino
|
02-18-2001,
12:01 PM |
Hmmmm....
What if Zan had to "commit a random act of kindness" or
self-sacrifice - or many, before they feel he is ready to take
on the job of serving the people unselfishly? I'd say healing
Liz was step one.
| |
By nermal |
02-18-2001,
12:02 PM |
I was thinking more along the lines of Max's desire to become
closer to Liz caused him to transfer part of the Royal Seal to
Liz when he brought her back.
Thus she is changed: part alien and part Ruler of Antar.
If we say that just the act of bringing someone back
transfers the Royal Seal, then we have a trinity. Max, Liz,
and Kyle.
Now that's a complicated triangle.
| |
By Palomino
|
02-18-2001,
12:10 PM |
Nermal: Great Idea!!! Maybe that is why Ava was so sad. If
Zan has now put a shadow seal on Liz, maybe she bumps Tess as
bride?
What does that make Kyle? Some possibilities: a. 2nd in
command - bumping Michael? b. adopted son of Mommy/blood
brother to Zan? c. court jester? or my and Tess's
favorite, d. Royal gopher.
| |
By GraceKel
|
02-18-2001,
12:11 PM |
Well looking back at Season1 is always a pleasant journey when
the show was great so I have to agree with Starbox here that
Liz did see or feel things---she tells Max this in the MISSING
episode that she wrote about in her journal--well maybe she
just FELT something during the healing but then saw things
during the reverse connection, perhaps that is more accurate,
not sure but the presence of the HUGE BUTTERFLY in the very
first episode-definitely indicates the process of
changing--changing LIZ, yes I think so--she is changing this
is what the story is telling to me. Many things they have done
in Season2 indicate to me that they are not fully following
Season1 which is ashame but thats my two cents.
| |
By Vihmakass
|
02-18-2001,
12:50 PM |
Maybe Im crazy... -In....planet time exist in multiplie
forms (Courtney) - Shapesifters has one person per life and
many shapes. -If Max has per body two personalitis-
absolutely splited sides(left/right) -There was some
ruse with handprints and times in pilot. What if Liz
was healed by both? Kyle was healed only by right
hand (with lighting btw.) Liz is somekind memory or
balans or connecting recourse for Max. And I guess both
personalitis love Liz. And you see if Liz was choose
Left-Max -World is ....There is not question-Tess or
Liz..There is question Left or Right or both -and what is Liz
decision.
Sry.gram.i hope you understand idea
| |
By Reggie |
02-18-2001,
01:40 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Vihmakass: Sry.gram.i hope you
understand idea
Don't worry. You post in English better
than we would post in Estonian!
| |
By Vihmakass
|
02-18-2001,
01:51 PM |
Oh, mis te nyyd :P (or tanx) Vihmakass(or Raincat)
| |
By
bluecornmoon |
02-18-2001,
02:08 PM |
While watching the images flashing when Max heals Liz, you see
his loneliness, what he feels, etc., etc., we see him watching
her AND we also see her watching him! Correct me if I'm wrong
but, how could he send her images of himself from her viewing
angle? He couldn't! So... as Liz told Kyle during "that" scene
in EOTW, the flashes went back and forth during the
healing!
| |
By Vihmakass
|
02-18-2001,
02:50 PM |
WatF : Max to Liz : We,...I.. hold you back. Everyone we
.... Is this Max/Both? Is now Liz time to grow? B/c she
has shanged?
| |
By Reggie |
02-18-2001,
03:14 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Qfanny: There is a hidden planet
in the V constellation.
See how the lights that form a V point to Liz, and there is
an extra "light" on the left side.... picture by
Shapeshifter: I'm cross-posting this from "Politics...",
because it's related; and no one'll see it there.
quote:Originally posted by Palomino: Golly Reggie, I
didn't want to be the "last word" on anything.
A question for anybody out there:
Notice alot of the alien life glows? On Earth,
bioluminescence is found usually in darkened habitats. If the
SSers and the bactrium from their ship both glow (as well as
Max making his chosen mate glow during foreplay), does this
sound like their planet is low on light? This might help to
explain why SSers have such large eyes too.
Any thoughts? Well, didn't Qfanny suggest that one of
the Five Planets was odd, or something? Suppose that one of
them is the moon of a gas giant planet, further out in their
star system? This would give the low light, and the
odd-looking representation of the planet.
To get back to politics, suppose that there is a
civilization on the gas giant as well? These would have to be
very odd creatures, for such an environment... like the
critters that inhabit the Skins? So maybe Vilondra fell in
love with a Twilonian-shaped Skin? It would also explain why
these folks are referred to as "Skins" - maybe they are only
ever seen (off of their world) as inhabited husks?
Any takers?
| |
By nermal |
02-18-2001,
03:15 PM |
Palomino: Royal gopher?
I think Kyle would prefer to be Royal Buddha, carrier of
the spiritual side of King Zan. And maybe the warrior also.
Maybe Tess senses this and is attracted to it?
Liz carries his heart. And perhaps more. She did have
visions of the crash in SH.
Perhaps Max unconsciously saw that Liz's
intellect/leadership/ability to solve problems was greater
than his and that is why the tranfer took place.
Max seems to be losing more and more of himself. Is that
why he looks so lost this season?
IMO he should seek to reconnect with what he lost to find
himself again.
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-18-2001,
04:32 PM |
quote:Originally posted by nermal: ...She did have visions
of the crash in SH...I (and others) theorized that many of the
SH visions were transmitted to her from the orb, after all,
she didn't get those images til the orb started going off. In
any event, there was the distinction between Liz getting
"flashes" and Maria not getting them, but Michael did get
them. So, with Ava's information about Liz being changed when
she was "brought back," we could assume that "seeing things"
is part of the change.
One of my pet theories is that Max recognized Liz because
he "remembered" what would happen from Future Max. He
"remembered" that he would heal her, fall in love with her,
she would solve science problems for them, she would save him
in NY, etc. I know this sets up an impossible
chicken-or-egg-first scenario with regards to time dimensions,
but that doesn't bother me.
| |
By
kristine888 |
02-18-2001,
04:38 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Vihmakass: And what about that
FM been lefthanded. Our Max is right handed.
Whoa, I think I missed that! What did Future Max do with
his left hand?
I understand that many right handed people are
ambidextrous, but it would be very odd if Future Max was
favoring his left hand over his right. I really didn't notice
it, though.
| |
By Chad Evans
|
02-18-2001,
05:01 PM |
quote:Originally posted by shapeshifter: shapeshifter here
with her overactive romantic imagination. I kind of like Chad
Evan's idea of the Royal Seal being associated with 'finding'
someone. I doubt the writers will go there, but it does make a
nice fan-fic plot: The King has to heal someone who is "the
right one" in order for his Royal Seal to be activated. In
turn, that "someone" is changed into someone special .
I suggested that? Hey, I'm good. I wasn't even thinking
that when I wrote it.
But if I did suggest it, I'm now going to kill it. The
purpose of the symbol in Max's head is to identify him to
other's of his race that he is Zan, their former king. I
believe that it was imprinted on his brain from the beginning
when his essence was combined with human DNA. Since the Four
were reborn, those who recreated them must have WANTED them to
return. Why would they take the risk of him not being able to
be identified by making it so that he couldn't be until he
performed an act of kindness by healing a particular girl?
That's not a chance I would be willing to take if I needed Max
to save my planet.
Someone mentioned that the visions happened with Max first
seeing one from Liz first, then sharing one with her "making
the connection go the other way." I totally agree and probably
meant to say that the first time though I'll admit I'm not at
100% around 5 A.M.
Chad Evans "Because you can do impossible things." -Dar
to Curupira in "The Demon Curupira".
| |
By Palomino
|
02-18-2001,
05:06 PM |
Nermal: It isn't hard to figure why Max looks so lost this
season, if you look at what his life was like until last
season:
1. He assumed he was an alien whose parents had been killed
when they accidentally crashed here. He wanted despirately to
be human, and normal. 2. He, Michael, and Isabel concidered
themselves siblings, because they knew nothing else. 3. He
was afraid of someone finding them out and killing/torturing
them. 4. He was afraid of his parents finding out and
rejecting him, dispite Isabel's belief to the contrary.
This season Max has more problems and insecurities to deal
with : 1. He knows he is a hybrid with a past life, and a
tough future. a. He has to be a great leader. b. He is
here by design (literally), and people have died because of
the mission to resurrect the Royal Four. He would feel
unworthy. c. He will not be allowed to hide as a human and
have a normal life. He has no choice. d. He has a ton more
responcibilies, and many more to come when he tries to reclaim
his throne, and then rule his planet. e. Tess has told him
that past-life memories can be retrieved. (We have seen one -
more are probably on the way. At what point is Max Evans lost
and Zan reborn? Fear of death of self?) Towards the end of
last season, Max revieled that he was afraid of his alien
side, and was afraid of losing his identity as Max Evans. He
is constantly being bombarded this season by who he is. Even
when he though he was safe from the feds and no enemy had
shown up over summer, he is jerked back to reality by his
protector dying in his arms - in a safe haven, his own
bedroom.
2. a. He has, in effect, lost his brother. Michael is now
only a 2nd in command - not family, and doesn't even act as if
he likes Max. Max can not confide in weaknesses to Michael
anymore. Michael already believes Max is too weak. This was an
unforseen rejection. b. He has found his sister, whom he
loves and trusts more than anyone else, betrayed him in their
past lives. He tells her how much he loves and trusts her
still, but this has to hurt underneath. 3. He has been
tortured and persecuted because of who he is, by the FBI and
Skins. 4. He is still afraid of his parents finding out. To
lose them would be even more devestating.
To top it off, he lost his soulmate when he needed her the
most, and he has been told he made bad decisions in his past
life. Revolution and betrayal by his sister must create
tremendous doubts and even more insecurities than before. He
can't even take the human teen way out of running away or
suicide, because that would cause even more deaths and
suffering.
Under crushing pressure, will Max crack or
explode?
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-18-2001,
05:28 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Chad Evans: ...Why would they
take the risk of him not being able to be identified by making
it so that he couldn't be until he performed an act of
kindness by healing a particular girl? That's not a chance I
would be willing to take if I needed Max to save my
planet...Unless it was necessary that in order for him to be a
compassionate leader he would have to care about someone else
more than himself.
Palomino, I rewatched ARCC with my daughter last night and
was thinking that his 'haunting' was a direct result of
Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.
| |
By Qfanny |
02-18-2001,
05:40 PM |
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but if you want your name
in the acknowledgements when (if) I give Shiri a copy of
Zero's introduction, you must email me at nimedeus@aol.com .
Some of you are writing some wonderful things that you enjoy
about Liz, so I will also print those off and add them to the
"book".
The subject of the email should look like this:
Liz Myth - (screenname)
If you want to write a short message on why you like Liz go
ahead. I will print it out.
But you have to do this before 6:00 pm CT on Monday Night.
When I leave for work on Tuesday, I am not going home until
Monday of next week. And I will not have a computer with me.
(Oh the horror.)
| |
By Palomino
|
02-18-2001,
05:44 PM |
Shapeshifter :
I agree about the "ghost" in ARCC. He learned nothing from
the ghost that he couldn't have found out in the newspaper.
The ghost actually told him to do something that would make
Max feel better. The ghost behaved exactly as Max would have
thought he would - no surprises. Once Max began to obsess on
healing all of the children, the ghost disappeared from the
room. I don't think Max had the energy to keep his ghost buddy
going while he was expending so much energy trying to heal the
children, so the ghost disappeared after the 2nd(?) child.
I don't think the ghost ever existed, except in Max's mind.
I don't think the writers have been doing a very good job
at portraying Max as a sufferer of PTS. Perhaps their way out
is to say that Max's alien side makes him immune to mental
disorders?
| |
By TVPooh |
02-18-2001,
06:00 PM |
quote:Originally posted by shapeshifter: Okay, let's try
this. At http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/stuff/xliz.htm you
should be able to hear GraceKel's daughter's famous catch of
"We've got to get rid of her" as Liz is flashing alien
pictures to tourists.
Also, at http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/stuff/xliz2.htm
is the shorter version (recommended for those of us with slow
connections).
I heard it! the slow connection version anyway! Someone
mumbles "we have to get rid of her." It's definately there!
Thank you shapeshifter!
| |
By reguru |
02-18-2001,
06:03 PM |
Palomino said: quote:does this sound like their planet is low
on light? This might help to explain why SSers have such large
eyes too. Any thoughts?Your post immediately reminded me that
in the Roswell High books it is stated several times that the
podsters can see better in the dark than in the light. When
they were in the Carlsbad Caverns looking for the ship, they
didn't even need flashlights but used them anyway to aid the
humans (Maria and Liz). But never do the books explain why
they see better in the dark. Your idea regarding their planet
being low on light is an excellent posit.
| |
By peej |
02-18-2001,
06:48 PM |
hi all i was looking at this book and found some
intersting things, im sure its been said but just in case. the
word truth is shown in the form of a female and will also be
shown with light, example lanterns. which happens to be around
liz lots (bedroom)
| |
By StarBox
|
02-18-2001,
07:20 PM |
RE: Liz's flashes I posted a really long thesis on this
many threads ago but just to recap - I think there is a
distinction between the "flashes" Liz gets and the "flashes"
the aliens get. I also think that Liz "flashed" during the
healing. I believe that it is referred to many times in the
subtext of season one - and is directly (and not accidentaly)
implied in the bedroom scene in EOTW. Here is a bit of
dialouge pre-reverse connection from Pilot:
LIZ: When you see me, do you, do you feel things. KYLE:
Yes, of course. I feel things. Like what? LIZ: Forget it,
I don't know what I was talking about. I'm just gonna go get
some sleep. KYLE: All right.
It seems like Liz is trying to find some way to get a
handle on what she has experienced - and that a
"connection" occured at the moment of the healing. A
connection that seems too weird to be real. Take this exchange
with the one in EOTW when she flat out asks if he saw things
when he was healed and I think it is pretty obvious that 2+2=4
- Liz flashed during the healing. Liz also consistently refers
to the HEALING as being the moment she feels she was
"changed". Not the reverse connection. Also - during the
reverse connection Max tells her to "let her mind go BACK"
Back to what - to the healing? To a deeper past??? We only
see flashes from one POV when they occur - most of the SH
flashes were shown from Liz's perpective - but we are to
assume that Max was flashing on things too at the same time -
it just wasnt shown. I believe that during the healing we only
saw Max's POV but something was happening to Liz as well.
Liz's flashes appear to be intuitive in nature and
impressionistic. She also "sees" things that are "hidden" in
the past. The podsters - on the other hand - flash on
childhood memories or fantasy when they conect with a human.
The "flashes" Liz got during the reverse connection were a
way of seeing what Max saw - they were like "borrowing" his
ability to have a flash. They were quite different than the
flashes that Liz has on her own. JK described Liz's
flashes as being "alien in nature" in his season one
commentary. I think that Liz's ability to have them was set in
motion by the healing itself - not by the reverse connection -
and I think the ability is internal to Liz.
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By
CharmedKitten |
02-18-2001,
08:06 PM |
StarBox: I agree with you. Liz's comments are just too
specific in regards to exactly WHEN she felt herself change.
The wording is very specific even though the context is not, I
should specify.
I would go on longer but I don't have the time. Have to met
my mom for dinner. Her birthday is tomorrow.
| |
By *anne* |
02-18-2001,
08:08 PM |
Regarding the Liz flashes:
I always understood it to have nothing to do with Liz being
"changed", more, Liz having this rare connection with Max.
It's the lifebond thing again. Michael and Maria, while they
love each other, don't share the same connection as Max and
Liz. More likely it has nothing to do with Liz's genetic
makeup. I think it has more to do with their connection
pulling things out of Max's mind that were deeply buried.
Things he'd need help to get out of his mind. Sort of like a
deep memory transfer.
Make sense?
Anne
| |
By nermal |
02-18-2001,
08:32 PM |
quote:Originally posted by peej: hi all i was looking
at this book and found some intersting things, im sure its
been said but just in case. the word truth is shown in the
form of a female and will also be shown with light, example
lanterns. which happens to be around liz lots (bedroom)
Liz Parker, Giver of Truth and Light of the World
I just hope the Light of the World shares the Truth with
the King of the World before it's too late.
| |
By Zero |
02-18-2001,
08:52 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Palomino: [b] 3. The change
in her seems to be that she can recieve flashes from Max only,
as if she is tuned in to him.
... If Liz carries her own Royal Seal, then she is an
alien, and they would have a difficult time of making it sound
plausible at this point. The heart of the show is the love
story inwhich an alien falls in love with a human despite
destiny and arranged couples. Who says aliens can't fall in
love at first sight too?
Palomino - Nice to see you here! I wanted to comment on a
couple of your comments. You say that Liz receives flashes
from only Max. Actually, Liz has received flashes from
Evil/Harding/Max and (I believe) that some of the
"flashes"/visions that Liz received in SH were coming from
someone/where other than Max. (Though I do believe they are
incredibly in synch with each other.) I believe that Liz was
receiving them from another alien, possibly Tic Tac. But, then
- we haven't seen Tic Tac this season, so ... But, that is my
thoughts on that.
I do agree that Liz is completely human, it is her ancestry
and human origins, that I believe "may" connect her to the
aliens somehow/way. I think that is the entire point of this
thread - that somehow/way Liz is important to the alien
mythology, and that she has a connection to Max other than
just "love at first sight" that has yet to be determined or
explained, and may go back many generations.
Back to reading the rest of the posts.
Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By Tasyfa |
02-18-2001,
08:58 PM |
quote:Originally posted by nermal: Liz Parker, Giver of
Truth and Light of the World
I just hope the Light of the World shares the Truth with
the King of the World before it's too late.
Me, too!
Palomino Your post on why Max looks a little lost this
season was amazing. I found this esp. thought-provoking:
"At what point is Max Evans lost and Zan
reborn?" That's a completely new perspective for me; I
appreciate it having been brought up
StarBox I believe Max says, "Let your mind go BLANK," not
BACK, when he does the reverse connection with Liz. And on the
subject of flashes--the kind of lightning-flashes which
occurred when Max healed Kyle, did they remind anyone of the
lightning-flashes that occurred when Max connected with GC's
spirit to let Liz say goodbye to her? B/c that's what they
made me think of. Maybe Kyle was closer to death than Liz was?
Max got to Liz faster, that much I'm sure of. Just a thought!
This has undoubtedly been covered before, but since I've
only recently seen Destiny and it's been bugging me, I'm going
to share I replayed the Momogram over and over, and this
sentence bothers me: "I have sent with you your young
bride, my daughter, the man you were betrothed to, and your
brother's second in command." Now, I have a BA in
Linguistics. While I haven't been in a semantics class for
about 3 years, this sentence says to me that there are FIVE
people. Ignore the fact that there were only 4 pods (esp.
since we know that there were really 8 anyway ), and the
shapeshifters. What if the Momogram really was referring to
all 5 people in the room? That would make Tess the 2nd, and
Michael just the King's brother-in-law, while Liz would be the
YB. If the last two parts were in fact both referring to
Michael, the sentence SHOULD have read: "I have sent with
you your young bride, my daughter, and the man you were
betrothed to, your brother's second in command." But it
doesn't read that way, it's just the camera shots and the fact
that we believe there are only 4 in total that cause us to
interpret this sentence to mean that Michael is both Isabel's
betrothed & the King's 2nd. Now, Nicholas did seem to
recognize Michael as the 2nd, but that could have been an
assumption on his part as well. Or alternatively, I could be
completely out to lunch here! Which is the most likely; it's
just that the phrasing was really bothering me ~Tas
| |
By Zero |
02-18-2001,
09:46 PM |
Hi All!
Palomino - I thought your summary of what Max is going
through and facing this season excellent! It is impossible to
even comprehen what it would be like to face such a present
and future.
As to Liz receiving "flashes" during her healing - I also
think that it has been "hinted" at in many places, but in the
Pilot, Liz was basically trying to sort out everything that
had happened to her. Having a "near-death" experience (I do
not believe she was ever "dead," though do believe that Kyle
may have been) alone would be extremely confusing (with lots
of "flashes" going on in the brain), much less when you mix in
the "healing" by Max - and the emotion involved with that
"connection." I also believe the "change" comes from the
original "connection," though the "reverse connection" may
have "sealed" the connection and "flow" of information between
the two of them. She was now "open" to future connections with
Max. Again - though, I believe that Liz has received visions
from beings other than Max and Evil/Harding/Max. I think the
visions Liz received in SH had to come from someone other than
Max who actually was conscious after the crash. I don't think
Max-in-pod, could have memories of hiding the ord or running
from army men.
BTW - Chad Evans - I have not ignored your thread, I just
haven't had time to read it all. I barely have time to get
here to read, but I will try!
Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By Palomino
|
02-18-2001,
09:55 PM |
Originally posted by Shapeshifter :
One of my pet theories is that Max recognized Liz because
he "remembered" what would happen from Future Max. He
"remembered" that he would heal her, fall in love with her,
she would solve science problems for them, she would save him
in NY, etc. I know this sets up an impossible
chicken-or-egg-first scenario with regards to time dimensions,
but that doesn't bother me.
Since we have heard about time existing in multiple subsets
on the Skins' planet, and the granolith can be used to
time-travel, there is yet another possibility of a future Max
knowing Liz. (This was an old theory I came up with a long
time ago, so just bear with me if you've heard it before.)
[I] What if the original Zan time-travelled and visited
Earth to see what it was like? Maybe he wanted to see if we
would advance, and if we were worth contacting? Any number of
possibilities. Using a puppet like Larek, he could have roamed
our near future and met Liz. What if Zan the Original fell in
love with an adult Liz, and when little Max saw her,
recognized her mentally from his "past" life? There could be
scads of subplots and politics like the "we have to get rid of
her" line in the pilot.
I know, a little wierd.
P.S. Shapeshifter : Reggie has the comparative
shapeshifting of Harding and Tic-tac to send you tomorrow. He
had to go to bed early as we are on the east coast.
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-18-2001,
10:11 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Palomino: ...Since we have heard
about time existing in multiple subsets on the Skins' planet,
and the granolith can be used to time-travel, there is yet
another possibility of a future Max knowing Liz. ...What if
the original Zan time-travelled and visited Earth to see what
it was like? Maybe he wanted to see if we would advance, and
if we were worth contacting? ...What if Zan the Original fell
in love with an adult Liz, and when little Max saw her,
recognized her mentally from his "past" life? There could be
scads of subplots and politics like the "we have to get rid of
her" line in the pilot. I know, a little wierd.Palomino, I
think it's perfect! It should be the centerpiece of the
Roswell Season II Theories Archive--um, that is if I ever
finish posting Qfanny's wonderful summary for our Season I
site.
Oh, and I have a new, very unromantic theory for the "we've
got to get rid of her line." Unfortunately, I think it's the
most likely: The actors had very small parts. Thus far,
most of the small-part actors on Roswell have not seemed to
understand the flavor of the show. For instance, T. Greer in
Harvest and last week's cousins of Laurie played it in a very
high-drama, campy style--not at all like the subtle Pierce or
Stephens. I know, agent Stephens quickly died and was
resurrected on West Wing. But my point is that the shooters
may very well have just been told to sit at the table and
argue and then get up and have the shooting scene. So then
"we've got to get rid of her" would have just been generic
tough-guy-shooter blathering.
| |
By Palomino
|
02-18-2001,
10:50 PM |
[b]Shapeshifter : ideas on what else "We've got to get rid of
her" could refer to:
1. The hot car they were driving. 2. The bimbo that has
been hitching a ride with them for the last seven
states. 3. They are Tic-tac and Nasedo arguing about Tess -
Nasedo won. 4. Thet are T-t and Nasedo arguing about
Valondra - T-t won. 5. Grandma Claudia who was plagerizing
(sp?) their work. 6. A third partner in crime.
Just kidding. But seriously, if you take a look at what
else they were saying, it seems to have been an argument
involving money. "I want to see the money on the table!" They
are also not recognized by anyone in the CD, and are never
found, so they are strangers.
If they were aliens and it were a plot, there would be an
infinate number of ways to kill Liz "accidentally" without the
attention, risk to themselves, and risk of not hitting her, or
otherwise succeeding. The CW's diary on silverhandprint says
they checked out Roswell and disreguarded it. In 2000 she
still doesn't believe anything is there until Pierce goes
there.
I don't think the writers are dumb enough to make anything
conspiratorial out of the shooting. Well ......
Where is Tic-tac? Sleeping with the red herrings.
| |
By gij |
02-18-2001,
11:19 PM |
a short note to Zero -
about the dates being stuffed up, i hve another one for you
-
between Independence Day and Sexual Healing, it was six
days, i think. in those six days, Hank disappeared, Michael
was accused, left Roswell, returned, gained his independence,
found an aprtment and moved in? six days????
anyway....
-gij
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-18-2001,
11:31 PM |
quote:Originally posted by gij: ...between Independence Day
and Sexual Healing, it was six days, i think. in those six
days, Hank disappeared, Michael was accused, left Roswell,
returned, gained his independence, found an aprtment and moved
in? six days????Hmmm...just like in Genesis--a lot can happen
in six days.
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-19-2001,
10:53 AM |
quote:Originally posted by shapeshifter: [QUOTEI know,
agent Stephens quickly died and was resurrected on West Wing.
OMG. I don't know why I didn't put this together in my head
before I saw this...
A few months ago I was in Washington D.C. and checking into
my hotel. There were these two guys checking in at the same
time who looked completely familiar to me, but I couldn't
place it. I was very tired and not totally alert.
Later on I realized, when I saw them filming the West Wing,
that the two guys I saw were on The West Wing...and now I just
put together that one of them was AGENT STEPHENS!!! Why this
didn't occur to me before, I have no idea.
Anyway, I just had an epiphany when reading that last post,
and as epiphany's go, when you have 'em you want to share 'em.
{~}:}
| |
By Zero |
02-19-2001,
01:10 PM |
Hi All!
I just wanted to remind you all to get your questions to
Met before this evening. We have a "contact" who is going to
get them to someone on the inside to see if we can get some
answers. But they need to be posted by this evening - though
we can start another list for future questions. I can't
disclose the contact - they have asked for confidentiality,
which I completely respect - but I do appreciate their
effort!!
Also, Qfanny - please take the questions, too! The more
information we can get from a variety of people the better!!
Here's to an interesting episode tonight - I'm rewatching
the Chronicles in the background right now to get ready for
tonight! Also - I understand there is a chat with JB on AOL
this evening. If anyone wants to try and get him to answer a
"Liz Myth" question - that would be great, too!
Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-19-2001,
01:13 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Zero:
I just wanted to
remind you all to get your questions to Met before this
evening. We have a "contact" who is going to get them to
someone on the inside to see if we can get some answers. But
they need to be posted by this evening - though we can start
another list for future questions. I can't disclose the
contact - they have asked for confidentiality, which I
completely respect - but I do appreciate their effort!!
Hey everybody. Just checked my PM's and I had no new
questions.
Zero -- I am intrigued!! I didn't know we actually found
someone who could get the questions where they need to go!! I
won't pressure you for info, but I'll just say Woo Hoo.
Qfanny - Let me know if you need me to email you the
questions in a word document or whatever. I'll do whatever I
can to help!!
I'm still freaking out over my earlier revelation that I
had actually run into agent stephens without knowing it!!
{~}:}
| |
By StarBox
|
02-19-2001,
01:19 PM |
Hey Zero - I am going to be at the aol chat tonight :-) My
aol name is LizMythologist (I know - I know - not too
original) - BTW if anyone wants to add me to their aol budy
list feel free to do so. Anyway - what question should we
ask?? I am thinking is a bunch of us are asking the same
question there is a greater chance that it will get answered.
I was thinking about asking if he believes that Max and
Liz have a past life connection - but I bet he isnt allowed to
answer that one.
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By StarBox
|
02-19-2001,
01:21 PM |
Hey Zero - I am going to be at the aol chat tonight :-) My
aol name is LizMythologist (I know - I know - not too
original) - BTW if anyone wants to add me to their aol budy
list feel free to do so. Anyway - what question should we
ask?? I am thinking is a bunch of us are asking the same
question there is a greater chance that it will get answered.
I was thinking about asking if he believes that Max and
Liz have a past life connection - but I bet he isnt allowed to
answer that one.
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By avaSpeaks
|
02-19-2001,
01:40 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Palomino: [b]Just to clarify the
arguement between Chad Evans and Vihmakass(I hope I spelled it
right):
1. Max had to connect with Liz to heal her. HE got flashes
from her - without her knowing. LIZ SENT NOTHING. She was a
dying human. It was the same with Kyle.
2. Max later went to the Crash Down and tried something
with her that he was not sure would work. He said he was going
to "try to reverse the connection so you can see it's still
me". He said he had to touch her and she gave permission. AT
NO TIME WAS LIZ EXHIBITING POWERS - ONLY MAX.
3. The change in her seems to be that she can recieve
flashes from Max only, as if she is tuned in to him.
4. The Royal Seal. Even if Liz had been an alien with lots
powers, and she had been carrying the Royal Seal herself, MAX
would already have it unless he was an imposter - the emissary
knew this and this is why Max was tested. The aliens would not
have certified Max as King Zan if the Royal Seal was that easy
to pass around. If it was transferrable, what was the point of
using it to identify the king? NONE.
If Liz carries her own Royal Seal, then she is an alien,
and they would have a difficult time of making it sound
plausible at this point. The heart of the show is the love
story inwhich an alien falls in love with a human despite
destiny and arranged couples. Who says aliens can't fall in
love at first sight too?[/B]
This is what I think. I believe that Liz is houman,
however, I believe that what makes her special is that maybe
she has a superior intellect for a human and maybe Liz is the
ONLY one in the world that can connect with the aliens on a
superior emotional and intellectual level.
I also believe that Max is Liz's human soulmate and Liz's
is Max's human soulmate. it's that simple. Maybe SHE is the
one who can connect with him on all levels, while he is on
this earth, regardless of what the book has says or the
original design. (I have been spoiled so I can't go too far on
that)
As for the flashes that Liz gets. I think that the way to
ID Liz's as the "ONE" was to see if she can receive the
reverse connection. If she could, then she is the one.
Because maybe whoever designed the alien/human fetuses knew
that there must be a test for the human, let's just say they
called her a "special".
If Liz, who is the "special" could connect with the "king"
during the reverse connection, then that would prove two
points for them. Only the "special" could substain the
connection, thus she would be able to recive the "flashes" in
SH, which were messages.
And only the true "King" would be able to send the reverse
connection to the "special" and successfully complete. So
maybe Max was proven to be the "king" long before the
emmissary's test. They knew the real King was there because
the "King" and his "special" had already found the orbs to
send the message.
Finally, it's kind like, 'well if your reading this
message, then I know you found the special' or whatever. Maybe
Liz is the only one that has the mental capacity to be the
"special" and is Max's match.
| |
By avaSpeaks
|
02-19-2001,
01:42 PM |
quote:Originally posted by StarBox: Hey Zero - I am going
to be at the aol chat tonight :-) My aol name is
LizMythologist (I know - I know - not too original) - BTW if
anyone wants to add me to their aol budy list feel free to do
so. Anyway - what question should we ask?? I am thinking is
a bunch of us are asking the same question there is a greater
chance that it will get answered. I was thinking about
asking if he believes that Max and Liz have a past life
connection - but I bet he isnt allowed to answer that one.
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
Why don't you ask him how important does he think Liz
is to Max's survival and does he think that Max and Liz have a
deeper and more cosmic connection than just a "crush".
That way, we can avoid being spoiled, because many of us
already have, so.
| |
By reguru |
02-19-2001,
02:23 PM |
I would only ask that someone post the transcript of the chat
for those of us who cannot access AOL. I am certain, Starbox,
that you have all the pertinent questions at the tip of your
fingertips anyway!
I think the one question I would have would be, What did
you actually mean when you told Liz that she "needed to be
able to grow" in WAF? I know my interpretation, but I would
like to hear his take on it. Thanks.
| |
By Reggie |
02-19-2001,
02:44 PM |
quote:Originally posted by StarBox: Hey Zero - I am going
to be at the aol chat tonight :-) Anyway - what question
should we ask?
"The kids have been given two books: the one Tess pulled
out of the Library wall, and Grandma Claudia's. Do they ever
look at them, or have the books been forgotten?"
| |
By Vihmakass
|
02-19-2001,
02:55 PM |
Plese ask this question: How importand is in the issue Liz
nature (not her love to Max)? I would be very
greatfull...
| |
By Reggie |
02-19-2001,
03:19 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Vihmakass: Plese ask this
question: How importand is in the issue Liz nature (not her
love to Max)? I would be very greatfull...
May I rephrase it? "How important is Liz's nature to the
plot (not counting her love for Max)?"
| |
By Zero |
02-19-2001,
03:36 PM |
quote:Originally posted by StarBox: Hey Zero - I am going
to be at the aol chat tonight :-) My aol name is
LizMythologist (I know - I know - not too original) - BTW if
anyone wants to add me to their aol budy list feel free to do
so. Anyway - what question should we ask?? I am thinking is
a bunch of us are asking the same question there is a greater
chance that it will get answered. I was thinking about
asking if he believes that Max and Liz have a past life
connection - but I bet he isnt allowed to answer that one.
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
StarBox - This question might not answer any specific
questions, but it would give us some insight and I bet JB
would answer it!
"Do You Think There Is More To Liz's Connection to Max and
the Pod Squad Than Meets The Eye?"
What do you think? It is vague enough that he might feel
comfortable answering it, but goes to the core of our belief.
Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By StarBox
|
02-19-2001,
03:37 PM |
Just popping in to say that I am going to submit all the
questions you guys post to the AOL chat - we will see if they
answer any of them. I will copy the chat and post it
verbatim on the board by 8:30EST.
**StarBox** mytholgist, dreamer
| |
By Vihmakass
|
02-19-2001,
03:38 PM |
Yes.This formulation is better.
| |
By Reggie |
02-19-2001,
04:13 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Palomino: Hmmmm....
What if Zan had to "commit a random act of kindness" or
self-sacrifice - or many, before they feel he is ready to take
on the job of serving the people unselfishly? I'd say healing
Liz was step one. I think this is why the Royal Four's
memories were edited out. Mom & co. on Twilo want to see
if they are really good people, and/or don't want them
influenced by the bad that was in their previous life. Like
"karma", only under manual control. Hey, karma: and Kyle's
gone Buddhist. Interesting...
| |
By Vihmakass
|
02-19-2001,
05:07 PM |
I think they don't have memories bc they are clones.Dupes have
memories bc they are duplicates- copys with past.Clone is new
start.
| |
By Tasyfa |
02-19-2001,
05:55 PM |
quote:Originally posted by StarBox: Just popping in to say
that I am going to submit all the questions you guys post to
the AOL chat - we will see if they answer any of them. I
will copy the chat and post it verbatim on the board by
8:30EST.
**StarBox** mytholgist, dreamer
I'm questionless at the moment, but bless you for posting
it verbatim! Will you be starting a new thread on the Ros
board, or just posting it here? Thanks in advance ~Tas
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-19-2001,
06:27 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Vihmakass: I think they don't
have memories bc they are clones.Dupes have memories bc they
are duplicates- copys with past.Clone is new start.Well said!
And so maybe the Destiny Book was for the duplicates, not the
clones with the "new start?"
Metaphysicalgrl, if you are freaking out that much about
Agent Stephens ( I know I would too! ) then we better get a
life-support system ready for you in the event that you ever
see JB!
| |
By StarBox
|
02-19-2001,
07:36 PM |
QFanny and I were both at the chat and they were having major
technical difficulties - the questions were not posting all
the time so you got answers without questions. The entire
verbatim (full of adorable JB typos!) transcript is on ROS2 -
he didnt answer any Liz questions.
Enjoy! **StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By Zero |
02-19-2001,
07:37 PM |
Hi All!
Okay - I just "participated" in the AOL JB chat! I've never
done it before, and doubt I will again! It was the most
frustrating experience! I thought if I could get some of the
questions sent along with StarBox we would have a better
chance of at least one getting answered. All the questions
picked were totally generic - you could get from a "fan"
magazine, with no substance. AND half the time, we couldn't
even see what the question was - just the answer broken out in
pieces with annoying posters breaking in with maddening
comments! (Can you tell I was frustrated! ) And you had to try
and figure out what the question might have been. Then it was
over - mid-sentence, with no warning! StarBox - Did you have a
similar experience? Maybe it was my "row"! The only comment
that "seemed" to refer to Liz was totally vague and unhelpful,
and NOTHING really about the mythology. Okay - sorry for the
rant, but I was hoping we would get a little bit of substance.
It must be an age thing??
Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By StarBox
|
02-19-2001,
07:52 PM |
Zero - it was not just you - the chat was a horrible technical
mess.
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-19-2001,
09:30 PM |
quote:Originally posted by StarBox: Zero - it was not just
you - the chat was a horrible technical mess.
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
Ditto everyone. The chat was annoying. I submitted 30
questions, though!
I have the transcript in case anyone is interested PM me.
Or, we have posted it on the Jason Behr boards.
Smiles, {~}:}
| |
By StarBox
|
02-19-2001,
10:07 PM |
Just rewatched the beginning of HTOHL and two things struck me
that I didnt pay attention to with the first viewing: First
- in the Crashdown scene with Larek - Larek really seems to
think Liz was on the ship. He speaks to her as if she is one
of the hybrids and is actually looking right at Liz when he
says the crystals were "harmless in the controlled enviornment
of YOUR ship".
Second - I dont know much about history - it wasnt ever my
"thing" - but I THINK this is a clue. Kyle and Alex find
the hive and Alex says "lets go get Max" - Kyle wants to go in
the cave - so they do and Alex says "Okay Columbus - you have
claimed the land for the QUEEN of Spain". Is there an
implication there that QUEEN Tess and KING Max are not/were
not exactaly on the same side.
And the two big questions I have - Alex tells Kyle "we
were both healed by aliens" - ummmmm - WHEN was Alex
healed??? I hate to say it - but Alex is seeming less and
less "Alex-like".
WHY were the crystals after ISABEL??? They told Grant to
kill her/kidnap her - but why???? And how does this relate
back to suprise??? And why did Grant have suprise-like
scratches on his neck this week???? And HOW did Tess know the
crystals hadnt finished with Laurie??? Could there be a
Tess/Grant/Isabel link that goes back to the beginning of the
season???
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By nermal |
02-19-2001,
10:29 PM |
Avaspeaks I liked your comments about how a special human was
needed to activate the orbs and receive flashes.
But why would they expect to find a special human in the
first place? How would they know about Liz Parker? Or just
happen to put the pod squad in the same town as her? And I
don't think Nasedo was on board with this, so it must have
been a secret project.
And why would they want this connection to form in the
first place? How does it benefit their mission?
Even after the Hybrid Chronicles, we still don't know why
they abducted humans and used the gandarium to create hybrids
except for the purpose to keep them alive and hidden on Earth.
I would have liked to read Laurie's grandfather's book, esp
what he wrote in the form of the orb symbol.
| |
By Melodious1
|
02-19-2001,
10:36 PM |
quote:Originally posted by StarBox: First - in the
Crashdown scene with Larek - Larek really seems to think Liz
was on the ship. He speaks to her as if she is one of the
hybrids and is actually looking right at Liz when he says the
crystals were "harmless in the controlled enviornment of YOUR
ship".
I'm just glad Larek didn't pull an Ed Harding and either
ask what Liz (a measly human) was doing there or tell her she
didn't "belong". Although was this because Liz is *special* (I
know what I'm thinking with this ) or simply because of the
way Larek has to *occupy* Earth. Perhaps Larek has more of an
understanding of humans (he's more laid back around them, more
acceptant / pacient) then Edsedo?
Kyle and Alex find the hive and Alex says "lets go get Max"
- Kyle wants to go in the cave - so they do and Alex says
"Okay Columbus - you have claimed the land for the QUEEN of
Spain". Is there an implication there that QUEEN Tess and KING
Max are not/were not exactly on the same side.
Possibly StarBox, although I always believed that (proto)
Tess and Max's marriage was one of *convenience* rather than
any mutual affection, although there could have been, who
knows. My belief, they were two factions united by marriage,
no more. Hence, it wouldn't surprise me if Alex's comment had
a deeper meaning. Off the top of my head (and believe me,
there isn't all that much there unfortunately) the Queen of
Spain Alex was referring to was obviously Isabella I of
Castile (Tess?) who married Ferdinand II of Aragon (Max?),
uniting Spain (under one religion). Their rule, although
benefited Spain greatly, also started the Spanish Inquisition.
etc etc, although a Britannica probably would be more helpful
then me
WHY were the crystals after ISABEL??? They told Grant to
kill her/kidnap her - but why????
Maybe because Isabel simply KNEW of their existance...
crystals couldn't leave any witnesses (whether they're human
or hybrid), hence the crystals wanted Isabel dead? Isabel knew
too much.
Although it does seem weird Grant taking her... would he
have killed ALL the hybrids? If so, why did he/it wait so
long? Grant has been around for a few months, why aren't the
podsters dead already?
And how does this relate back to suprise??? And why did
Grant have suprise-like scratches on his neck this week????
That's one of my main concerns that I don't know will ever
be addressed now that Grant seems to be wormfodder. WHAT was
the connection between Grant and Tess' kidnapping?? Was there
one at all?? Why did Iz seemingly get the flashes when she
wiped away the blood off Grant's neck? If Grant did have a
part in the kidnapping, Why? Why would the crystals (or the
Queen) seemingly help the Skins?? I suppose we're to assume it
was just a fluke Iz got the flash when she wiped the blood off
Grant, but it certainly didn't seem unintentional to me
post-SURPRISE.
Could there be a Tess/Grant/Isabel link that goes back to
the beginning of the season???
A friend of mine was trying to tell me that perhaps there
was some time in between S&B and SURPRISE we didn't see...
Tess, Isabel and Grant "hanging out" together... hence perhaps
there was time for Tess to get to know Grant well enough to
have a convo on what to get Iz for her bday. Although I
didn't/don't really buy this. Still seems fishy to me why Tess
would have conversed with Grant about anything? It's even
weirder now knowing what Grant was/is.
You're also right to bring up Tess' seeming *knowing* that
the crystals hadn't finished with Laurie StarBox; she seemed
so sure. How? Why? Is there a connection between the crystals
and Tess we have yet to be made aware of?
Melodious
| |
By Zero |
02-20-2001,
01:06 AM |
Hi All !
Mel - You did an excellent job answering StarBox's
questions! I will have to rewatch the episode before
commenting too much. I feel like this episode just raised more
questions than it answered. If we were supposed to understand
the human origins based on the Hybrid Chronicles - opps, I
don't think so! I did enjoy them though - I just, never mine.
I did think that Tess was given a Liz line - when she
stated that the Grandarium had not completed the infection of
Laurie. That was clearly a Liz type of observation/discovery,
that seemed to have gratuitously been given to Tess??
The entire Iz interaction with Grant strikes me as odd. I
do try to look at it from the point of view of someone who
thinks that everything they touch gets distroyed - thus, the
scene at the end.
I loved the entire Maria/Mikey G interactions! Now if we
could only see some light moments between Max and Liz! Okay -
I'm a Dreamer! But what about the coming attractions - was
that a flash of Liz and Max in wedding attire!!? Okay, it is
probably just a dream sequence or something, but I can rewatch
it and Dream for a few a nanosecond!
It's late - and other than Larek chatting to the group
including Liz without any comment about her belonging or not,
I didn't feel there was anything that moved the Liz Myth
theories forward, but if other did, please let me know! I did
notice the focus on the four square window pane in Mikey G's
door when Grant broke in - but ... .
Night all !
Zero I Shall Believe! BTW - I just found out a
friend is flying me to Las Vegas for her daughter's birthday
celebration this weekend! I find it very ironic that I will be
in Las Vegas the weekend before Viva Las Vegas! I have not
been there for 16 years!
| |
By
CharmedKitten |
02-20-2001,
01:30 AM |
Okay. I have a lot of comments. I just watched the episode
twice and found so much stuff.
When we first see Grant in his Jeep after being followed by
Valenti and Duff there is a sign that says
Bail 24 2+4=6 6 keeps recurring lately
Liz is scared and freaked out by the whole Larek/Brody
thing. And she gets him to explain things, taking control.
They, I/M/T, all look towards her for the answers. And so then
does Larek. The camera or Larek focusing on Tess when talking
about the virus. When referring to the Queen they show both
Liz and Tess. Have they been split or does Max's decision make
one of them Queen and one not?
The Ganderium is a manufactured virus. It has no mind or
conscious. It just acts like any other virus, doing what it
wsa created to do. So it wasn't really after Isabel or any of
the pod squad. It would simply kill anything and everything in
it's way.
Tess & Liz have a connection in this episode. When and
where did this come up? Or did it just come from the fact that
they were totally happy to wrap. They were seperated L/T, M/I,
and K/A, why?
And is Maria or Isabel related to Laurie's Grandma Ada
Jane? And did Laurie get emancipation? For a girl that
everyone called crazy? Confused here.
Oh and StarBox, I didn't hear anything about Alex saying
that they were healed by aliens. I think he was saying that we
know about aliens. Can you tell me when you heard it? I could
be wrong.
Alright. I'm gonna go. Check back tomorrow! Night all! Oh,
did anyone else just love this episode, even though there
weren't any real Dreamer moments or Mythology ones?
| |
By Alexis |
02-20-2001,
08:51 AM |
Good Morning fellow RBIer’s:
I noticed one thing in terms of props:
Laurie D. has the same mirror that Liz has in the pilot
(sorry no screencap).
Also, from HTOHL, it can be assumed that the Guandarian
virus was on the ship because the 2 sets of pods were created
on the ships coming towards earth (why else would they take a
deadly virus with them that could kill earth and the
podsters?). If they had to create them on the ship then we can
assume the group responsible for creating the Pod Squad were
fleeing for their lives.
Palomino—you said that we already saw one past life memory?
Which one is that? Did I miss something? Great list, BTW.
other reasons for “Got to get rid of her comment”
Zero—I agree with your comment about everything the aliens
touch gets destroyed, especially with Isabel. Even though I
think she has been showcased too much this season, I thought
that last scene with her and grant was fitting.
Great job everybody!
| |
By
StarryEyedGypsy |
02-20-2001,
09:09 AM |
I know this is a crazy thought, but...Liz and Tess have had a
different relationship since MITC. Is there any way Tess could
really be Ava. Tess does seem more human somehow and Liz was
drawn to Ava in a protective sort of way. We also had that
scene at the end of MITC where Tess was dazed and did not know
what happened -possibly Ava taking over?? Ok, I know crazy
thought.
| |
By Palomino
|
02-20-2001,
10:03 AM |
Palomino—you said that we already saw one past life memory?
Which one is that? Did I miss something? Great list, BTW.
other reasons for “Got to get rid of her comment”
Alexis: In "Ask Not", when M/I/M went to kill Brody, Max
had a series of flashbacks of traumatic moments which included
an (dead?)alien's head. If you want to see a picture of it, I
believe there is one on (page7?) of the Sci-Fi of Disturbing
Behavior thread.
| |
By Evid |
02-20-2001,
11:29 AM |
Hi RBI's,
I found this over at Cherishing M/L and I wanted to share
it here with my fellow Dreamers/Mythologists. Thank you to
provence for this screen cap.
Max and his true Bride, Liz.
Evid
| |
By Zero |
02-20-2001,
11:43 AM |
Good Morning!
Thanks for all the insights on the episode! While I enjoyed
this episode, it will be more fun to rewatch now that I will
be watching with a more educated and investigative eye!
I also don't understand the Liz/Tess "friendship," but also
realize that we have to assume that there is stuff happening
off-camera that might mean they are warming up to each other.
Plus, Tess - who is getting in "touch" with her human side -
may be more friendly to the humans in general, thus, more open
to being friendly with Liz!
OT - Someone needs to teach these people how to shovel!
This is the second time M&L have had to dig, and boy, are
they awful at it!
As to past memories - The "dead cows head" flash Max has is
one (as Palomino points out), but - arguably - so are many of
the visions that Liz gets - past memories of whomever is
sending them to her. I don't think they are her past memories.
Also, interesting to think that the Hybrid were created on
the ship! I agree, why else bring a potentially deadly virus
with them otherwise. I still say they had to have done it
before in order to know that it works (combining the RNA with
the DNA using the Granderium as a catalyst - think that is
what Larek said). And, Antar had to know something about Earth
before sending a ship here with such valuable cargo. More
indications that there was past visits!
NOW the big question - and if they DON'T READ GRANDPA'S
JOURNALS I'M GOING TO BE MAD - when did Grandpa begin to be
"taken"?? And - obviously - the use of his DNA did not affect
him too negatively if he died only 7 years ago! Also - I'm so
curious about Laurie's Grandma, and the circumstances of her
death!
I also wondered about the circumstances of Laurie's sudden
sanity and ability to be left with obviously "bad" relatives.
Umm ... Though that was a touching scene at the end with Maria
& Mikey G!
BTW - Anyone want to post the "Wedding Picture" here from
the previews? I know it doesn't have anything to do with the
Mythology - I think - and is probably just Liz's imagination
in VLV, but I can dream. (I'm no longer spoiled - it was too
negative over there, so decided to be unspoiled for the rest
of the season - so I'm dying over seeing that flash in the
previews!) EVID - I see you were reading my mind!!
Till Later! Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By TVPooh |
02-20-2001,
11:50 AM |
quote:Originally posted by Zero: Hi All!
Okay - I just "participated" in the AOL JB chat! I've never
done it before, and doubt I will again! It was the most
frustrating experience! I thought if I could get some of the
questions sent along with StarBox we would have a better
chance of at least one getting answered. All the questions
picked were totally generic - you could get from a "fan"
magazine, with no substance. AND half the time, we couldn't
even see what the question was - just the answer broken out in
pieces with annoying posters breaking in with maddening
comments! (Can you tell I was frustrated! ) And you had to try
and figure out what the question might have been. Then it was
over - mid-sentence, with no warning! StarBox - Did you have a
similar experience? Maybe it was my "row"! The only comment
that "seemed" to refer to Liz was totally vague and unhelpful,
and NOTHING really about the mythology. Okay - sorry for the
rant, but I was hoping we would get a little bit of substance.
It must be an age thing??
Zero I Shall Believe!
That's what AOL chats are usually like. you can turn off
the people on your row so you can't see them. AOL chats are
ANNOYING and I never go to any of them anymore.
OK here are my thoughts on HTOHL... I can't believe no one
has come up with this theory yet... BUT what if Liz has the
recessive gene of the donor (Grandma Claudia theories) and
that is why Max was instantly drawn to her? Isabel was drawn
to Grant when she first saw him. But I know that the gandarium
didn't attack Liz when she was inspecting it. Maybe because
she's been changed?
Yes, I too wondered about Grant's sratches on his neck and
the connection to Surprise. if Grant said he started
losing his memory after he began working in Frasier Woods then
how/why did he steal all that other stuff before?
I also saw Liz hug Tess. I think it means we're supossed to
like Tess now.
And I picked up on the fact that Larek did NOT say that Liz
was not one of them-therefore did not belong. Interesting...or
maybe he can't really "see" he can only hear?
I really liked this episode though there were some hokey
moments and lots more questions to be answered!
| |
By Alexis |
02-20-2001,
12:22 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Palomino: [b]Palomino—you said
that we already saw one past life memory? Which one is that?
Did I miss something?
Alexis: In "Ask Not", when M/I/M went to kill Brody, Max
had a series of flashbacks of traumatic moments which included
an (dead?)alien's head. If you want to see a picture of it, I
believe there is one on (page7?) of the Sci-Fi of Disturbing
Behavior thread.
[/B]
Thanks for telling me about that! I don't remember
seeing it. I will have to look at my tapes to see it again!
| |
By reguru |
02-20-2001,
12:59 PM |
TVPooh & others asked: quote:Yes, I too wondered about
Grant's sratches on his neck and the connection to Surprise.I
am posting this from the CHADs thread as quoted by The
Roswellian which answers this question about the scratches on
Grant's neck (plus a few others): quote:Cut ScenesFor those
who are wondering about the scratches on Grant's neck, when he
was trashing Michael's apartment, the script says that a
neigbor hears the noise, comes to investigate, and Grant kills
her. The neighbor scratches his neck as he strangles her.
Later, I believe the police are called in, and Duff finds out
the murder victim had skin under her nails, leading her to
remember the scratches on Grant and suspect him of the murder.
Hence her willingness to follow Valenti. Without these scenes,
I think her ordering a plane to Tuscon on Valenti, a suspended
police officer under heavy suspicion who has lied to her in
the past, is a bit odd. Particularly when he tells her that he
wants her to violate federal laws by falsifying a report
later. On the other hand, perhaps not having a dead body found
in Michael's apartment, soon after Max and Isabel have been
the center of a police scandal, is good in the longterm. These
kids are trying to keep a low profile after all.
--Isabel's scene with Grant's body was originally much
longer. She basically laments never telling him the truth
about her, and I believe even refers to him as a man she might
have loved. I guess I'll have to personally send Ron Moore a
fruit basket for having the sense to realize how out of the
blue, bizarre, and just plain revolting such a scene would be.
--I think they also cut Laurie's explanation for how
Grandpa 1935 got so rich. He discovered a silver
mine.
| |
By
CharmedKitten |
02-20-2001,
01:13 PM |
quote:Originally posted by TVPooh: I also saw Liz hug Tess.
I think it means we're supossed to like Tess now.
And I picked up on the fact that Larek did NOT say that Liz
was not one of them-therefore did not belong. Interesting...or
maybe he can't really "see" he can only hear?
My thoughts on the T/L hug was that they were just so happy
that K/A were alive and that they had killed the gernarium and
since they were standing close together, they hugged. But I do
believe that T/L are going to become friends. I have a feeling
that's where the PTB are going to go soon. It's the only way
that they are going to get the majority of fans to accept
Tess.
Regarding the Larek and Liz interaction, I'm not sure what
to make of it. She was really freaked when she found out that
it was Larek, yet he seemed to agknowledge that she was part
of the group. I don't honestly know what to think about it.
I'll have to watch it again. (Oh, Darn!)
| |
By Wishful
Thinking |
02-20-2001,
02:16 PM |
Hi all! It's been awhile since I've been here and I must say
it's nice to be back
Great job on the updated intro plus all the new insights
& theories-- it's a lot to catch up on!
Just a quick note about HTOHL: the exchange in the
Crashdown w/Larek-- very interesting that all look to
Liz. Did anyone else notice the comment of "You're welcome
to try!" Isabel made to Liz, after the Podster's failed
attempt at blasting the crystals? (I kept thinking to
myself "yes, why don't you?")
That's it for now. Sorry not that much to add really.
| |
By Zero |
02-20-2001,
02:44 PM |
quote:Originally posted by TVPooh: That's what AOL chats
are usually like. you can turn off the people on your row so
you can't see them. AOL chats are ANNOYING and I never go to
any of them anymore.
OK here are my thoughts on HTOHL... I can't believe no one
has come up with this theory yet... BUT what if Liz has the
recessive gene of the donor (Grandma Claudia theories) and
that is why Max was instantly drawn to her? Isabel was drawn
to Grant when she first saw him. But I know that the gandarium
didn't attack Liz when she was inspecting it. Maybe because
she's been changed?
TVPooh - THanks for the heads-up about AOL chats!
Now - I think the idea that Liz might have the recessive
gene interesting, but here is why I don't think she did.
First, I don't think Grant had a recessive gene, because if he
did, then it would have been all over - he would have been
infected, and the virus would have been all over. I think
Grant was merely a host to allow the "Queen" Granderium to
move around. And I think he was infected when digging a year
earlier. Probably opened the main hive on Phulman Ranch, and
was possessed by the "Queen G." I think she/it was using him
to track down someone with the Recessive Gene - Laurie. How it
found her is anyones guess?? Now, I also do NOT believe any of
the Hybrids have the recessive gene, though all of their human
donors apparently had to. Now, I'm not a genetisist (and the
show is not know for it's science logic), but if the Hybrids
had the recessive gene, then MAX would have been a candidate,
and would not have been "rejected" by the Blue Goop that
crawled on his hand. It didn't like his taste! Somehow, the
mixing process discarded of this gene ultimately. BUT this
does raise the question - IS THIS WHY THE INCUBATION PROCESS
TOOK SOOOOO LONG FOR THE PODSTERS? Now, to Liz - I think that
IF she had a recessive gene, she would know about it, and
"Queen G" would have sent Grant after her. Laurie KNEW that
she had a recessive gene, so I would guess others with it
would also know. Which raises another question - WHY DID
LAURIE KNOW? How many of you know you carry a recessive gene
of any kind? Many people have no idea unless they have kids
who develop some disease that resulted from two recessives
coming together. (Hope that makes sense.) Okay - I'm rambling
now. But I thought this was a thought provoking question - Is
the recessive gene what attracted Max to Liz? And though I
think NO - it was worth discussion.
Now back to reading!
Oh - AND I LOVE THAT WEDDING PICTURE! It makes my
Dreamer/Mythologist heart beat fast - if only I thought it was
true! (I'm such a cynic right now! )
Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-20-2001,
03:28 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Zero: I think Grant was merely a
host to allow the "Queen" Granderium to move around. And I
think he was infected when digging a year earlier. Probably
opened the main hive on Phulman Ranch, and was possessed by
the "Queen G." I think she/it was using him to track down
someone with the Recessive Gene - Laurie. How it found her is
anyones guess??
Here's the thing that's been really bothering me about this
plotline. Why did Grant go back to the UFO center to grab Iz?
Why would he kidnap her, and how did he know she would be
there. I also don't believe that the hybrids or Liz for that
matter have the recessive gene...but that part with Iz just
doesn't make sense, unless it was just a way to show us what
Grant was going through. That he was fighting the posession.
And the fact that Laurie's grandpa seemed to be struggling
with this for a long time, does indicate that it does take a
long time for the crystals to infect the host. Now...that kind
of explains why Laurie wasn't infected completely.
It's really kind of confusing. BUT if 1 in 50 million
people have this gene, then what does that say about the
other's donors? That's not alot of people!
I think one thing we can get for sure from all of this, is
that the aliens had been visiting earth previous to sending
the podsters down.
quote:Which raises another question - WHY DID LAURIE
KNOW? How many of you know you carry a recessive gene of any
kind? Many people have no idea unless they have kids who
develop some disease that resulted from two recessives coming
together. (Hope that makes sense.)
Zero, that makes TOTAL sense to me. When my brother and his
wife had children, they had all these gene test done, and it
was shown that my brother is the carrier of some kind of
recessive gene (I forget which one) which if his wife also had
could mean that their children could get some kind of awful
disease. His wife didn't have it, and they have two beautiful
and healthy kids...but one of my parents were carriers.
Now, he was told that it is highly probably that I am
definitely a carrier of that gene as well, and that before I
have kids I absolutely have to have tests to show that my
partner doesn't have the same gene. Of course, when that time
comes, I'll make sure I know exactly what gene it is and all
of the particulars about it that I can't seem to remember
right now. The point is, I know I have a high probability of
carrying this gene.
Also, with Laurie and G-Pa it didn't say what kind of
effects that recessive gene would have on Laurie if she wasn't
just a carrier. Maybe it's the kind of thing they would test
her for -- hence, this is how she knows?
Again, would've been great if they had been a little more
thorough with the details..but then again, as obsessed as we
are any amount of details wouldn't be enough!
{~}:}
| |
By StarBox
|
02-20-2001,
04:03 PM |
About the Hybrid chronicles - the more I think about them -
the more frustrated I get. I mean - they spent FOUR shows on
these and some stuff just doesnt make sense! If Grant
carried the queen - then why didnt she just zoom out and
infect Laurie? And I do think there is an Isabel connection
- the crystals seem to have been specifically after her
through Grant - plus she was the one who got the flashes of
Laurie.
Also grandma Dupree - Ada Jane - her name is awfully
similar to AVA. I wonder would she and Grandpa have to have
the gene to pass it on to Laurie??? They intentionally didnt
show her picture - wonder who she looks like............
Thanks for posting the info on the cut scenes - they do
clear up many of the lose ends.
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-20-2001,
04:59 PM |
quote:Originally posted by StarBox: About the Hybrid
chronicles - the more I think about them - the more frustrated
I get. I mean - they spent FOUR shows on these and some stuff
just doesnt make sense! If Grant carried the queen - then
why didnt she just zoom out and infect Laurie? That was
what I thought too -- but I think the actually "infection"
takes a while. If she could just zoom out and infect Laurie,
then she would've. The fact that Laurie was buried in the
ground, hooked up to oxygen tanks to keep her alive is
tangible proof that it takes time...and the fact that the
'infection' was incomplete...
Also, from what we've learned about Laurie's G-pa...it
seems that it didn't happen to him quickly, either. I got the
impression that this went on for a long time...getting worse
and worse as time went on.
quote:And I do think there is an Isabel connection - the
crystals seem to have been specifically after her through
Grant - plus she was the one who got the flashes of Laurie.
Interesting...but what kind of connection could this be --
and what does that say about Isabelle?
quote:Also grandma Dupree - Ada Jane - her name is awfully
similar to AVA. I wonder would she and Grandpa have to have
the gene to pass it on to Laurie??? They intentionally didnt
show her picture - wonder who she looks
like............ Her name is also very similar to IDA.
Nicholas' "mother". And ITA with you about Laurie's
grandmother. If she wasn't important they wouldn't have
bothered talking about her at all -- after all, they never
ONCE mentioned Laurie's parents, or why she was the legal
guardian of her aunt and uncle.
quote:Thanks for posting the info on the cut scenes - they
do clear up many of the lose ends. **StarBox** mythologist,
dreamer
DITTO!
{~}:}
| |
By GraceKel
|
02-20-2001,
06:26 PM |
Hi fellow mythologists---I guess this eppy was okay but as for
a bit nonsensical well.....Metaphysicalgrl I agree why kidnap
Isabel???? What was the point here?
One thing--my S theory is still intact cuz Grant Sorenson
was just another poor helpless victim and actually sacrificed
himself for the good of all LOL!!!
Starbox--I too noticed that Larek looked dead on at Liz
when he said YOUR SHIP--oh they love toying with us with this
stuff don't they? And I wonder who Lauries grandma looks
like Maria or TESS???????
BB words--BadBlood---BailBond
I haven't see this episode enough to get much more out of
it--although I did catch the 2 DIAMOND shapes on the TOBASCO
bottles on the table in the crashdown---when is the last time
that Liz was speaking that Max never even looked her
WAY???????? WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT?????????
| |
By
Metaphysicalgrl |
02-20-2001,
06:51 PM |
quote:Originally posted by GraceKel: I haven't see this
episode enough to get much more out of it--although I did
catch the 2 DIAMOND shapes on the TOBASCO bottles on the table
in the crashdown---when is the last time that Liz was speaking
that Max never even looked her WAY???????? WHAT WAS THAT
ABOUT?????????
Oh yeah, and did any of you guys happened to notice some of
the windows in the dupree mansion? Diamonds EVERYWHERE!!!
And one last random observation -- did G'pas drawings of
the aliens remind anyone even just a little bit of the
gargoyle/troll thing that held the outdoor camera in the front
of the estate?
Also, the backward C symbol was seen again on the front of
the Dupree estate in last night's eppy ... )(
Sigh. What does it all MEAN???????????
| |
By Tasyfa |
02-20-2001,
07:30 PM |
Apparently the cut scenes are at the bottom of page 8, b/c I
cannot get the entire thing to load
On the 1st HTOHL discussion thread, shadowgrl posted
something interesting. If you watch all the scenes where Max
and Liz are together, pay attention to the blocking--the
actors' positioning. They are always together. They're sitting
together at the CD, with Liz between Max & Tess. When
they're digging, Liz is generally also in between the other 2
unless she's bopping around on the phone. There is a certain
comfort level with each other's physical nearness that we
haven't seen for a while--the awkwardness is gone. My take on
that is that it's evolved from their chat in the ER in WAF,
where it was just so natural for them to hug. So, this is a
subtle but important clue to how Liz and Max are feeling about
each other.
As for the hugs at the end--did Max seem pretty d***
reserved, or was it just me? I mean, we did get a whole smile
(for a nice change!), but then he only kind of gripped Alex's
arm, and he stopped smiling, while everyone else was jumping
for joy.
As for the Liz/Tess interaction: while it seemed out of
place--there was no previous foundation laid for it,
really--I'm all for it. If Liz is going to play as large a
role in Max's life as we all think she is/should, then she
& Tess must be friends. Or, friendly, at the very least.
Much like Max had to accept Tess's presence in his life, Liz
must also (and Tess has to accept Liz, too).
Metaphysical girl I PMd you
Sorry the AOL chat was such an ordeal, StarBox & I
forget who else I'm no longer sorry that I have a different
ISP!!!
Don't they look so incredibly happy in that wedding pic? I
mean, it's not really going to happen--they're minors, they'd
need parental consent for starters--but :sigh: I it! Thanks
for posting it, Evid!
And to whomever said that Max and Liz need to take
digging lessons, ITA!!! I feel really sorry for Jason, Shiri
and Emilie having to actually do all that in that horrible
rain S. Calif.'s been getting. ~Tas
| |
By Zero |
02-20-2001,
08:17 PM |
Hi All!
Tas - That was me who said they need to take digging
lessons! I just thought it was funny, and I'm sure shotting
the scene was a pain! When it rains in So. Cal., it POURS!
Met - Regarding Grandpa Dupree - I don't think he was
infected with the Granderium. I think he was just the donor of
Michael's human DNA which was mixed in the petri dish with the
alien DNA to create Michael! I don't think any human had
actually been infected - yet - because that would result in
the creation of the deadly virus. The fact that the Granderium
was loose was accidental, and due to the crash. I don't think
it was ever supposed to be released into our ecosystem.
I too wonder about Laurie's parents! What happened to them.
This little loose ends drive me nuts, and could easily be
taken care of with a side comment, ect.
I tend to disagree with the take on M&L relating to
each other. They seemed too cold to each other in this
episode! Though they did sit next to each other - I did not
get the "caring" vibes that I usually do. It was just like she
was just another person sitting at the same table, nothing
else.
My take on Iz's kidnapping is that Grant/possessed saw her
enter the UFO museum and followed her in, knowing that she was
one of the people that rescued Laurie from the grave. BUT -
How did Grant know where to find Laurie in Arizona? Okay, I
could drive myself batty if I focus on those types of
questions.
Liz did play the critical role in determining HOW to kill
the Queen! Without her figuring that out, they would not have
been able to destroy it.
Now - what do you think Duff is going to do with her new
found knowledge? She saw Mikey G use his powers!
Also - I think it was reguru - thanks for bringing those
comments over from the other thread. I'm sure there is a lot
of overlap between the "analytical" threads, but I like to
focus on my favorite "Liz" and those who surround her!
Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By GraceKel
|
02-20-2001,
08:30 PM |
Zero ITA with you about the Max and Liz relationship in
tonights episode---did you notice when Liz started talking at
first Max never even looked at her---when would this ever
happen????????? Also Max in Season1 would have made sure
everyone was rounded up in the woods and safe instead he goes
running off in the rain first????????????????Doesn't even look
back??????????????? WTH???? What are they doing to Max????????
Sorry but this is not the Max I fell for at all last
season.
| |
By audrey11
|
02-20-2001,
08:56 PM |
Maybe I'm just an overly obsessed Dreamer, but I did catch
some Max and Liz looks in this ep.
| |
By Nana J.
|
02-20-2001,
09:49 PM |
Zero - Just saying hello. Am excited about leaving for the LA
party tomorrow. Bet I'll hear some good theories there! The
only theory I had before Monday's episode was that I was
betting Laurie's grandfather had left his estate to her.
Bingo! Though it certainly wasn't much of a leap!
It's fun trying to be Sherlock, isn't it!
| |
By volume0ne
|
02-20-2001,
09:52 PM |
Okay, I've posted this on a few boards, so sorry if you've
already seen it. I've been lurking here for a few months now,
and I love what you guys com up with. I read this on the WB
Talk board.
Somebody else posted it there.
| |
By
roswelldiva |
02-20-2001,
10:13 PM |
HI guys
quote: Originally posted by StarBox:
First - in
the Crashdown scene with Larek - Larek really seems to think
Liz was on the ship. He speaks to her as if she is one of the
hybrids and is actually looking right at Liz when he says the
crystals were "harmless in the controlled enviornment of YOUR
ship".
Yeah not only was he looking straight at her when he said
"your" ship but I also found it interesting how when they said
"well if we find the nest then we find the queen" Larek/Brody
said "not necessarily" I at first thought of how he might have
also meant how the queen might not have been hidden in the
nest on earth for security reasons and to not make it that
easy to find her, he might also be talking about THEIR queen.
Could be or I might just be getting ...
quote:Originally posted by Zero: Now, I'm not a
genetisist (and the show is not know for it's science logic),
but if the Hybrids had the recessive gene, then MAX would have
been a candidate, and would not have been "rejected" by the
Blue Goop that crawled on his hand.
Actually might make A LOT of sense why it didn't bite Max.
The reason they needed the recessive gene was so the
glandarium (whatever it was called ) could join the alien DNA
and the human one. AFter it does its job they don't need to do
it again. The aliens are obviously already infected with it
sort to speak and can live with it. Sort of like the monkeys
that have AIDS in Africa but still manage to live with it
normal lives. SO it wouldn't need to reinfect an body. IN fact
when Max and Liz where checking it out, Liz said it doesn't
attack forms only humans. Or something along those lines...
quote:
Laurie KNEW that she had a recessive gene, so I would guess
others with it would also know. Which raises another question
- WHY DID LAURIE KNOW? How many of you know you carry a
recessive gene of any kind? Many people have no idea unless
they have kids who develop some disease that resulted from two
recessives coming together. (Hope that makes sense.)
Well Laurie said that people were who they were and she was
like her grandfather (was crazy). Maybe they might have done
loads of testing on the grandfather when they thought he was
crazy (when he said he had been abducted by aliens). If they
needed to pay that much money to say she was crazy I'm
assuming they tired out the first logical step which would be
testing her to see if she really was, and I'm sure if the
grandfather was cloned he must have found out about why he was
chosen to be cloned...maybe another group wanted to retry the
experiment with Laurie.
Okie just my thoughts.
VolumeOne : Hi. Thats really sad huh. They should do promos
advertising their website with crashdown.com clue place while
they do the promos. I would have gotten in on the action
sooner if I knew how fun it was to watch the show and also do
stuff online. Oh well.
| |
By GraceKel
|
02-20-2001,
10:19 PM |
Roswelldiva now this is just the sort of clue that I usually
find in an episode I think I am getting rusty here LOL---good
catch about the Queen not necessarily being in the nest--could
have been talking about the pod chamber-possible double
meaning there hmmmm.
| |
By nermal |
02-20-2001,
11:23 PM |
Killing the queen and all would die.
You could interpret that several ways. 1. Kill Tess and
all the skins die. 2. Kill Tess and all the podsters
die. 3. The queen is the most important part of the hive,
maybe Tess, but I'd go for my fav, Liz. 4. If Tess is not
in the proper environment, she will mutate and destroy the
planet. 5. Do not in any circumstance let the queen
hybrdize to any human under any circumstance. 6. Having the
queen splat against the window in a blue puddle for some
reason made me giddy.
Just trying to find some humor in it all.
| |
By nermal |
02-20-2001,
11:28 PM |
Oh, and since the granolith has risen in importance over the
pods, maybe they should rename the pod chamber:
the "G" spot.
| |
By
CharmedKitten |
02-20-2001,
11:34 PM |
Laurie knew about her recessive gene because it was a blood
defect. Listen to it again and you'll hear it.
| |
By shaiwon72
|
02-20-2001,
11:53 PM |
quote:Originally posted by Wishful Thinking:
Did anyone
else notice the comment of [b]"You're welcome to try!" Isabel
made to Liz, after the Podster's failed attempt at blasting
the crystals? (I kept thinking to myself "yes, why don't
you?")[/list]
[/B]
i think that it was tess that had made that comment and not
isabel.
| |
By Zero |
02-21-2001,
12:37 AM |
quote:Originally posted by nermal: Oh, and since the
granolith has risen in importance over the pods, maybe they
should rename the pod chamber: the "G" spot.
ROTFLMHO!!! !!!
Also - Roswelldiva - great observations, and you have all
convinced me that the recessive gene would probably be known
by Laurie. But you all have to admit that there are lots of
questions raised be this episode!
Okay - love the "Queen" analogy! I would never have thought
about it - though as Grace Kel mentioned, this is something
that should have jumped out at us!
PS - Nana J - HI! Have a blast in LA!!
Zero I Shall Believe!
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-21-2001,
12:50 AM |
Am I the only one who thought "Whoa!" when Alex & Kyle
were singing in the cave? Okay, there's "February makes me
shiver" (appropriate), and "this will be the day that I die"
(appropriate for the circumstances), AND: "I don't remember if
I cried when I heard about his widowed bride," (ver-r-r-y
interesting!) BTW, I love that old song.
There was also the music to "a taste of honey, tasting much
sweeter than wine" when M&M were experiencing how the
other half lives.
Can anyone verify volumeones's source as valid?
| |
By BehrsVenus
|
02-21-2001,
03:12 AM |
Coming out of lurkdom, yet again.
The thing someone (so rude to forget the name!) said about
Brody/Larek saying if the Queen dies, they all die and how it
may relate to killing the Antarian Queen and all the Podsters
dying ... Maybe that is why Max HAD to save Liz. I know he had
a crush on her before he saved her at the Crashdown, but there
was an urgency, like he NEEDED to save her. Perhaps Liz is THE
Antarian Queen and if she had died that day, they all would
have died. Sorry if someone already mentioned it!
Back to lurkdom until I can find an intelligent thing to
say!
| |
By Vihmakass
|
02-21-2001,
04:26 AM |
What Grant do and whay? Laurie DNA+ G + Vilondra? essentse.
From he has get (got?)Vilondra es.? From Iz.This is
reason whay he kidnapped Iz. If he then killed all 4
podsters then nowbody knows Vilondra still alive.
very sry.gram.
| |
By InkaCajo
|
02-21-2001,
04:31 AM |
I also thought it was really interesting how Larek look at Liz
when he said your ship. He didn't treat her any different. I
was thinking about that scene and it just struck me how
everyone looked to Liz when Larek was trying to explain the
gandarium. They used to look at Max in the same way. It felt
significant that they were all looking at her for some kind of
leadership. It occurs to me at that they look to her to lead
them intellectually while they look to Max to lead them
decisively. THis reminds me of the tendency for the female
hybrids to have mental powers while the male hybrids have more
physical powers. hope this makes sense. I'm retiring back
to lurkdom now.
| |
By nermal |
02-21-2001,
06:46 AM |
InkaCajo, liked your post and sig.
Liz is like the scientific advisor to the King. But I think
she leads more like a Queen.
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-21-2001,
07:23 AM |
quote:Originally posted by Vihmakass: What Grant do and
whay? Laurie DNA+ G + Vilondra? essentse.
From he has get (got?)Vilondra es.? From Iz.This is
reason whay he kidnapped Iz. If he then killed all 4
podsters then nowbody knows Vilondra still alive.
very sry.gram.Vihmakass, are you suggesting that Grant was
going to make a new Vilondra clone by using Laurie + Isabel's
essence?
| |
By Alexis |
02-21-2001,
07:28 AM |
Zero—I rewatched HTOHL and to answer your question, Grant
finds out she’s in Tuscon when he looks through Michael’s
apartment, at least that’s what the writer’s want you to
think.
About Max and Liz’s interaction—although I didn’t feel
complete love vibes, Max is looking at Liz when they are first
sitting there. He also continues to look at her after they are
talking with Larek. Max wasn’t all too physical. Maybe Jason
Behr thought that last scene was ridiculous, just like me!!
GraceKel—notices double H’s: Handsome Hero. I do agree that
Max would have made sure everyone was rounded up instead of
walking off, but like I said maybe JB didn’t like the scene.
I also when no one really trusted Tess when she said the
Queen never finished. It wasn’t until Liz said that she was
right did they believe her!
Liz did figure out how to kill the Gandarian, but Kyle said
he figured it out!
There are various campaign’s going on to help support a S3
and Operation Max/Liz. Here are the links to the petitions you
can sign to support Roswell(the last one is a Max/Liz
petition): http://www.PetitionOnline.com/RosEvans/
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/RoswellF/
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/mroswell/
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/ros47/
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/crmw7up8/
Nermal—“G” spot
shapeshifter—it kind of bothered me that Alex and Kyle were
singing that song. What 17 year old knows all the lyrics to
that song? Of course some of the lyrics are appropriate.
Palomino—I rewatched that scene in Ask Not and the “Alien
Head” or whatever it is is shown twice! I couldn’t believe I
never noticed it!
| |
By Vihmakass
|
02-21-2001,
07:45 AM |
Shapesifter:There are 2 possibilitis: 1)Yes,I think in some
reason Kivar need(want)Vilondra back. 2)No, he doing that
Laurie hybrid for someone else .But for who? Alexis:Rewatch
Destiny.When Max begin to healing Kyle, look his hand!This
hand is not human!!Next moment we see lighting and it(hand)
seems normal again.
| |
By
StephStephSteph |
02-21-2001,
08:22 AM |
HI RBI!
It's been so long, but.. I could have SWORN that Grant was
going to be possessed by Khivar - did anyone else think that?
I mean, he had such a fixation with Isabelle and he seemed to
wanted the Pod Squad out of the picture.. just seemed logical
| |
By StarBox
|
02-21-2001,
08:45 AM |
GraceKell/et al - I am SO glad I am not the only one who
thought Larek looked right at Liz with the "YOUR ship" line.
Shapeshifter - I DID think "American Pie" was an
interesting choice - esp. the line about the "Widowed Bride".
Okay - I rewatched HTOHL and you are right - in teh last
scene in the cave Alex says "not only did we know aliens - we
were KILLED by them. Then he goes on about how its an amazing
ride and then he asks Kyle "Think about it - if you could walk
out of this cave and just be a dumb jock - would you want to"
and Kyle thinks about it and says "no I wouldnt". I hadnt
picked up that little exchange before but DANG - I LIKE KYLE.
Also - notice when they are digging Liz is carrying a chart
she made and Max tells her "there is nothing in grid -
so-and-so" - so again - Liz was the leader of the entire
operation.
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By
Leanan-Sidhe |
02-21-2001,
09:22 AM |
Re: Larek looking at Liz when he says "your ship" I have my
own little theory that Liz was the scientist on the ship who
mixed the alien/human DNA together, which would explain her
excellence in science and her possible connection to the
podsters. Zan could've loved the Antarian's top scientist
| |
By StarBox
|
02-21-2001,
09:53 AM |
LS - I actually love the idea that Liz/or/GC was a scientist
aboard the ship.
I forgot I had some behind-the-scene stuff to pass
on. *It was not in the script for the kids to dig in the
RAIN and it was really miserable to film. Maybe thats why Max
ran ahead at the end - they just wanted out of the rain.
* Colin and Nick were singing the weird-Al version of
American Pie - producers told them they had to do it the
"real" way. :-) Hey - I'd have gotten a kick out of the
star wars version :-)
Zero - I am away all day - I am going to PM you the image
gallery if you start a new thread before tonight.
**StarBox** mythologist, dreamer
| |
By
roswelldiva |
02-21-2001,
09:57 AM |
quote:Originally posted by StephStephSteph:
It's been so long, but.. I could have SWORN that Grant was
going to be possessed by Khivar - did anyone else think that?
I mean, he had such a fixation with Isabelle and he seemed to
wanted the Pod Squad out of the picture.. just seemed logical
right on . Thats why I think Laurie might have known about
her DNA as well...maybe someone WAS trying to reproduce the
experiment with her. And Vil soo agree with Grant seeming like
he was Khivar trying to get Isabel...and more so if they said
that the original scene was much longer when she stayed
talking to him after he was dead at the end......maybe Isabel
felt it inside too (Vilondra something) and in a messed up way
sort of that he cared so bad for her even if it was for
interest. She might not be used to being loved. I almost got
the impression it was more of a Vilondra talking to Khivar
thing than Isabel to Grant...
quote:Originally posted by Zero:
and you have all convinced me that the recessive gene would
probably be known by Laurie. But you all have to admit that
there are lots of questions raised be this episode!
Hey I'm wish you Zero DOn't think I'm just trying to
blindly back up everything Jason Katims does cause I love the
genius behide the man . And LMAO with Nermal's "G" spot . I
think Alexis is totally totally right about Jason thinking it
was probably a silly scene . I love the show but I thought
that bit was pretty silly myself "YAY a bunch of kids who
can't even shovel correctly saved the world form the attack of
the killer blue diamond crystals". Then again I've never seen
an alien ...who's to say some of them don't look like killer
crystals... BUt I guess I did enjoy how everyone worked
together. I stil think Kyle figured out how to kill them
though, NOT Liz...
Inka Cajo : I thought it was funny how they actually looked
at Liz more like , "what the hell is he talking about" than
looking toward her for leadership...and I liked how Tess
showed she has some brainpower herself even if Liz did the
convincing. WOW cool sig btw .
GraceKel : I actually watch the shows now thinking how you,
MetaphysicalGrl, Reggie, Zero, Shapeshifter and Starbox would
be looking at it cause I can't tape them here and it makes me
enjoy the show so much more to be hunting down for clues . I
actually look up to guys soo much cuz I think you're all soo
smart . I luv reading what you all have to say in fact, so
thank.u for that. I'm glad I wasn't just going looking for
stuff that really wasn't there. But it seem to notice how
almost the writers slyly give double meaning to clues. I mean
I'm not a dreamer to soul I guess I'm a bit realsit but I'm
convinced Liz has some importance to the alien mythology to
the show after this Larek/Brody incident. Silly as how they
scene was . I still enjoy it...
Okies I really got to go study. I think it would be
cool if we got all the viewers hooked on the website too .
Then'they'd HAVE to watch the show MWA HA HA...I say we do a
addicted to crashdown and Roswell campaigne. People love
gameshows and stuff where they can interact. It would be like
the "Clue" game. All the .COM generationers would get hooked
to the show...
| |
By Wishful
Thinking |
02-21-2001,
10:44 AM |
Actually regarding Isabel talking to Grant at the end of
HTOHL, I didn't take it as Vilandra talking to Khivar... just
highlighting Isabel's fear of being alone, which has been
hinted at in other episodes (ie. Surprise: the argument about
her dating people 'outside of the I-know-an-alien-club' &
it's subsequent dangers).
This combined with her fear that everyone who 'comes into
contact'/involved with the podsters ends up hurt, made it seem
like the HTOHL scene was more a self-revelation for Isabel
that she is indeed/will be alone (for now at least).
Sorry for my long-winded explanation.
| |
By moon
maiden |
02-21-2001,
10:48 AM |
Hey everyone! Been missing you all here--house stuff is
pulling me away again. Isn't it awful when real life keeps you
away from FF I pose a question to some of you who are more
experienced: How the heck does anyone afford to put furniture
in their house that hasn't won the lottery ?!?
Shapeshifter: ITA about the "widowed bride" line from
American Pie. Seems significant somehow. Have to think about
it.....
BTW, Alexis, I knew every word to American Pie when I was
15. This song is extremely popular among youngsters, at least
where I'm from. Oh, and GraceKel, this is really stretching,
but the song is about the plane crash that killed Ritchie
Valens, Buddy Holly, and the Big Bopper. Another BB for you in
an indirect kind of way (told you it was stretching ).
Also caught the "Bail Bonds 24 Hours" sign: in addition to
2+4=6, also 2x4=8. Also, in Grant's rambling about "things I
know" he says 2x2=4. Max says they didn't find anything in
grid 23 or 27--there's a 5 and 9 again. Numbers, numbers, what
do they mean???
What was up with the green water in the Dupree's pool?!?
Strange choice for pool lighting. Laurie also had a diamond
w/dot in the middle pattern on her pillowcase. Laurie's
wallpaper had some kind of vines on it, and Maria and the aunt
were talking by a building covered with grape vines. Also
noticed the diamond-paned windows in the dining room.
I thought the interaction with Liz & Larek was great.
He treated her with respect, as if he knew of her importance.
Add me to the list of people who noticed that he looked right
at Liz when he said "your ship". Great observation about the
Queen not necessarily being in the nest!!!!
After this ep, I am beginning to think that TPTB read these
threads. Kyle says, "What do you suppose alien crystals are
going for on EBay?" If you ever go to the funniest screencaps
thread, they have a hilarious obsession with EBay that started
WAY before HTOHL. Coincidence?? When are they going to use
some Liz Myth ideas????
| |
By Alexis |
02-21-2001,
11:54 AM |
quote:Originally posted by moon maiden: Hey everyone! Been
missing you all here--house stuff is pulling me away again.
Isn't it awful when real life keeps you away from FF I pose a
question to some of you who are more experienced: How the heck
does anyone afford to put furniture in their house that hasn't
won the lottery ?!?
Shapeshifter: ITA about the "widowed bride" line from
American Pie. Seems significant somehow. Have to think about
it.....
BTW, Alexis, I knew every word to American Pie when I was
15. This song is extremely popular among youngsters, at least
where I'm from.
I did forget that Madonna did a cover of that song last
year some time, so I guess it is plausible. As to the
original, it came out in the '70's. None of these kids were
even born yet!
Everyone has great ideas.
I will have to check Destiny later. I am sending my tapes
to someone that is in more need of them than I.
| |
By seedsweet
|
02-21-2001,
12:20 PM |
I'm not sure if this was posted before, but I was rewatching
LN and noticed that GC did the same kind of 'astral
projection' that Liz did in MITC. Maybe a coincidence, but why
wasn't she surprised about it if Max was the one responsible?
She acted as though it was normal.
Could it be a family thing? They just need to connect with
one of the Pod Squad to do it. Or, it could support the 'Liz
is an alien' theory
Hope this makes sense.
aldebaran - Thanks for posting the Atlantis pic for
me.
| |
By moon
maiden |
02-21-2001,
12:26 PM |
Alexis: I guess Madonna did do a cover (which sucked IMO) but
I was referring to the original by Don McLeon. You'd be
surprised how many teenagers today listen to classic rock. I
was born in 1974, but my favorite music is from the 60's and
70's. I actually can't stand most of the music turned out
today!!! The greatest musical experience of my life was the
Eagles concert in 1995. Some of us young people do have great
respect for our elders, musical and otherwise !
| |
By audrey11
|
02-21-2001,
12:50 PM |
Just delurking with some quick thoughts...
Re the scene at the end with Isabel and Grant: Do you
remember in TSAP when Isabel says that she needed the girl to
be missing? Because she needed to use her powers for good.
Like Max and Michael, she's afraid that she's only going to
hurt everybody who comes near her. That scene just struck me
as Isabel feeling like, once again, who she was had hurt
someone else.
Maybe this is insignificant, but someone, I think Tasyfa,
mentioned that, with the way that the mom-o-gram worded her
message, it seemed like the Antarians sent five people, not
four. When Larek shows up at the table, he doesn't question
either Tess or Liz's presence. Is it possible that maybe both
belonged there? Is it possible that there were five, instead
of four?
| |
By
Leanan-Sidhe |
02-21-2001,
12:59 PM |
quote:Originally posted by seedsweet: I'm not sure if this
was posted before, but I was rewatching LN and noticed that GC
did the same kind of 'astral projection' that Liz did in MITC.
Maybe a coincidence, but why wasn't she surprised about it if
Max was the one responsible? She acted as though it was
normal.
Could it be a family thing? They just need to connect with
one of the Pod Squad to do it. Or, it could support the 'Liz
is an alien' theory
Hope this makes sense.
aldebaran - Thanks for posting the Atlantis pic for
me. That is an EXCELLENT observation...I hadn't thought of
that. Hmm...very interesting...must contemplate for a while.
Thanks!
| |
By Wishful
Thinking |
02-21-2001,
01:09 PM |
Okay I was rewatching HTOHL today when I noticed this weird
circle thing of light-- it appears then fades out during the
scene when Isabel is hitch-hiking a ride to Tuscon. Anybody
else notice this? Or am just delusional and it's all really an
accident due to the rain?
Also somebody had mentioned earlier about the visuals of
vines etc. in this ep. Just to add to it: the glasses that
agent Duff & Valenti are drinking from have (what looks to
be) etched fern leaves or something on them. I don't know what
the vines/leaves etc. symbolize, but there it is
| |
By Alexis |
02-21-2001,
02:05 PM |
quote:Originally posted by moon maiden: Alexis: I guess
Madonna did do a cover (which sucked IMO) but I was referring
to the original by Don McLeon. You'd be surprised how many
teenagers today listen to classic rock. I was born in 1974,
but my favorite music is from the 60's and 70's. I actually
can't stand most of the music turned out today!!! The greatest
musical experience of my life was the Eagles concert in 1995.
Some of us young people do have great respect for our elders,
musical and otherwise !
Hey, we're the same age! Don McLeon did a much better
version, you are right! I too, like the Eagles. They are nice.
I suppose there are some teens that like that, but enough to
know all the words? Two teenagers? I doubt it. I guess it
doesn't matter in the scheme of things!
| |
By avaSpeaks
|
02-21-2001,
02:18 PM |
Hi all
First thing I wanted to say was that the whole Max/Liz
interaction in HTOHL was great, IMO because it shows that they
can work together and that he, along with Isabel and Tess,
respect her, her leadership, her intellegence, and intellect.
Also, unlike most Dreamers, I don't think that Liz and Max
always need to be sucking face with one another and holding
hands, cuddling and all kissy-kissy all the time. I think that
the interaction was fine because it's time to get down to
business and just the fact that Liz was so close to Max was
enough for me.
And I think sometimes it weakens Liz's importance and
presence as a strong woman. besides, the romance of it to me
is that Liz can speak for Max and nobody says anything about
it.
About Larek, two reasons why he felt comfortable with
the group.
1) he had already met Tess at the summit, or at least saw
her with Max. And then he had already seen, at least we think,
seen Isabel and Liz with Max at the UFO Center. So therefore,
since they all were they and they all know Max, he probably
figured they all work with him.
2)Or it could had been that the interaction with Larek and
Liz was important because maybe Larek knows how important Liz
is to the group.
Also, one more thing about the Larek/Liz interaction. I
think that Larek must have immediately picked up on how
important Liz is to the group just by seeing that everybody,
including the King looked to Liz for explanation, and it was
HER that asked Larek to simplify his answer.
The focal point with Larek was excellent, althoug I will
say this. I think that Larak looked at Isabel when he said
alien cells then looked to Liz when he said human cells, but
he did looked at Liz with the "your ship" thing.
| |
By Faile |
02-21-2001,
02:36 PM |
Not sure if you guys are keeping up with things renewal wise,
but I thought I'd drop this off...
Okay, the word is that "Viva Las Vegas's" ratings might
decide renewal due to the impending strike. If this is true we
need to get organized, streamlined, and reved up, and
FAST!!!!!
In other words, recruit if you can. VLV will be a great
episode for new people to see why we all love Roswell!!
| |
By Reggie |
02-21-2001,
03:19 PM |
quote:Originally posted by avaSpeaks: Also, one more thing
about the Larek/Liz interaction. I think that Larek must have
immediately picked up on how important Liz is to the group
just by seeing that everybody, including the King looked to
Liz for explanation, and it was HER that asked Larek to
simplify his answer. You got it !!! King Max "has been
listening to bad advice". Larek must expect Max to have
advisors around - most leaders do. Since everyone looked to
Liz for biology advice, Larek specificly adressed her.
Remember, didn't Liz ask for the simpler explanation?
Now, if we could just ask him about the alien toy, the
orbs, and The Granolyth...
| |
By Zero |
02-21-2001,
04:42 PM |
Hi All !
Almost time for a new thread!
Moon Maiden - I was one of those "teens" who memorized
"American Pie" when it first came out - and still have it
memorized! I still have the vinyl album!! I remember doing
cartwheels across our junior high field with friends singing
it at the top of our lungs! It's a great song - though an
interesting choice for the show considering it is about a
plane crash bringing about "the day the music died." It is a
song full of double meanings, etc. just like I believe this
show is! Umm...!
Moderators - I'll be back in a couple of hours to start the
new thread. PLEASE do not close this one down until then. I
doubt it will go over 250 too much. THANKS!
See you all then - have to finish a memo on tax and subsidy
barriers to a sustainable society! Now if that doesn't make
your eyes glaze, nothing will !
PS - Welcome to all the "lurkers" - remember you are ALWAYS
welcome!!
Zero I Shall Believe! And Let's Do What We Can To
Save Our Show!!
| |
By reguru |
02-21-2001,
05:32 PM |
avaSpeaks said: quote:Also, unlike most Dreamers, I don't
think that Liz and Max always need to be sucking face with one
another and holding hands, cuddling and all kissy-kissy all
the time. I think that the interaction was fine because it's
time to get down to business and just the fact that Liz was so
close to Max was enough for me.
And I think sometimes it weakens Liz's importance and
presence as a strong woman. besides, the romance of it to me
is that Liz can speak for Max and nobody says anything about
it.YES, Liz is important in and of herself. And I, as another
total dreamer, believe that she needs to establish her own
sense of confidence without Max before anything 'romantic'
should happen between them again. Also viewing Liz first as an
individual and as a member of the group would help resolve
some of the insanity of late on the boards!
| |
By Shiri
Temple |
02-21-2001,
06:59 PM |
Hi, this is my first post and I hope this works. :-) I have to
say how interesting all of your posts are...you really have me
questioning everything and looking deeper into the show...it's
great!
I know everyone's discussing the new episode (HTOHL), but a
thought just came to me while I had been rereading earlier
posts...I realize I may be way off and it might not make any
sense...but it's something that popped into my head. There
were 8 pods originally and according to the dupes (I think it
was Lonnie) there was a too human group. What if the too human
group is actually the four humans (Liz, Alex, Maria, &
Kyle)? What if the evil dupes are really working with the
skins or were created by the skins. A lot of the info we've
received about the 8 pods have been from these dupes who are
far from trustworthy (Plus wouldn't Nasedo have mentioned
these other look alikes? Wouldn't he have placed them with
more care? Why would the dupes a strong connection with
Nikolas?) . Again I realize that I am probably way, way off
and I know I have no real foundation/evidence to support this
random thought. I just thought I'd throw it out there.
Before I go, I have to say that I love the idea of Tess
being like a Nasedo (warrior type-perhaps that's why she was
raised by Nasedo...make sure she'd know how to protect the
real royal 4...maybe explain the fire scene in WO...maybe
that's why she was trained to remember certain things so she'd
think she was the bride) type alien who was created as the
"bride" in order to hide the true Queen/Bride, Liz. Plus the 5
stars, the five healing stones, the 5 worlds, etc are also
extremely fascinating.
Ok, thanks for letting me ramble.:-) Hope everyone has a
great week till VLV! Can't wait to read more Liz theories! Go
Dreamers!
| |
By
shapeshifter |
02-21-2001,
07:05 PM |
About the American Pie song, I think the words have even more
significance becauseit's not a "current" song, and so was
likely chosen for the words--like Rhinestone Cowboy in MTD.
And I thought they both gave a little emphasis and clarity to
the words "widowed bride." Although it could have Antarian
implications, right now I'm thinking that "widow" doesn't
necessarily mean that the husband is dead--for example, a
"football widow" is a wife whose husband watches football
instead of Roswell. So, perhaps Kyle wasn't sure if he wanted
'to cry' when he heard about Max's 'widowed bride,' that is,
Tess, who is de facto 'widowed' because Max is obsessed with
Liz. Instead, Kyle thinks that might work out to his own
advantage. And Alex, well, maybe that's a foreshadowing of
Grant's death?
| |
By Zero |
02-21-2001,
08:10 PM |
Hi All !
Off to start the NEW THREAD!!
PLEASE TAKE ALL COMMENTS OVER THERE!
Zero I Shall Believe!
| | |