The Hybrid Chronicles are over, and were interesting. While they really did not added a lot to the Liz Mythology connection, they still included clues that seemed to underline Liz’s importance to the Pod Squad, especially Max , and ultimately, the alien mythology! Also, “Viva Las Vegas” was heartwarming in many ways to all the Dreamers out there, and had that great Wedding Scene that is full of speculation re: How it occurred! Hopefully, I will incorporate the great thoughts out there soon!

Background

We have been dissecting all the Roswell episodes, one by one, season after season (a little optimism there about a Season 3! ), finding “clues” to Liz’s Importance to the Alien Mythology and other relevant topics – and there are a lot of them (WAY MORE than I can ever summarize here)! – and then developing theories and potential storylines based on these (often well hidden) clues! Shapeshifter and Qfanny have graciously agreed to set up a single link to the former threads that are available to read (if you have a week or two or three or four). You can find it at the following link http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology (but be patient, they will have thread #30 up in good time ) . Starbox does a wonderful job of posting pictures relevant to our discussions up front for reference! Thanks! Metaphysicalgirl has gathered questions to put to a Set Decorator/Designer/Prop Person from Roswell, since the set decoration, etc. seems so important to our analysis. Qfanny and another connection to the set are going to try and get us some answers! We hope they know of our appreciation! Metaphysicalgirl will continue to gather questions for future attempts, and as soon as we get some responses, we will post them!

Up-Date on our Questions: The list of questions was given to the on-site set director for the episode currently being filmed. (Week of 2/19/2001) He was tickled that we were asking questions, and said that he has visited our thread and is very interested by some of our findings. (They are lurking out there!! ) He also wanted us to know that they usually don't have a lot of time to really plan the set for a TV show. They generally, only have a few weeks of prep-time. Once chosen, they have to use those designs pretty much throughout the duration of the show. Also a lot of the posters and stuff they use are donations they get from companies. They will use the posters that they think are cool and kind of work with the character. However, Brenden specifically asked for Metallic since he's a really big fan of them. Finally, the on-site set director said that he would give the questions to the head set director and have her answer them as well. He said that she'd get a kick out of it. Of course, now we have to be PATIENT – remember Patience is a virtue!! (THANKS! to our contact who provided me this information!! They know who they are!! )

The following is a LONG summary (oxymoron?) of some of the clues, thoughts and theories that have been expressed on the previous threads. I have been trying to incorporate new theories as we move through Season 2 and new clues are unveiled; however, not all clues identified are listed or theories are covered in-depth (remember, I – Zero – am a mere human being with limited human brain capacity, so can only retain so many details).

Basic Thesis

Just a reminder - Our basic thesis is that LIZ IS AN IMPORTANT AND ESSENTIAL ELEMENT TO THE ALIEN MYTHOLOGY.

What is Subject for Discussion?

Liz’s importance to the pod squad – and the survival of the human race for that matter - and theories concerning the beings – especially Max - and mysteries swirling around Liz – are what we dissect. So – feel free to join on in, or just lurk! And don’t worry about going off on a tangent – they all tend to lead back to Liz’s importance! We are an up-beat and friendly – though seriously anal retentive – group! So – dive in, and join the fun!!

Liz is Important – The Liz/Max Connection

First – and foremost – the general consensus is that Liz is important to the alien mythology and the pod squad, and that there is more to the Liz/Max connection than a mere attraction (i.e., a crush). From that first look – Max getting off the bus in Kindergarten (or 1st grade – time seems to be operating in many dimensions – or is it time zones? - recently ) - Max has been strongly attracted to Liz and felt a special connection to her. Max often makes comments such as “It was You!” and “I’m coming for You!” that leads us to believe that her importance to him was beyond the bounds of “normal.” How Liz is important is where the fun – and this thread! - comes in. We now know that if things had continued on the “previous” course, Liz and Max would end up married, but that all H#** would break loose, resulting in Earth being taken over by their enemies (Skins? – we don’t know since FM never says, but now that we know there are 5 planets involved (MITC), their “enemies” could come in numerous shapes and sizes from a number of places) in 2014 – all apparently due to the cementing of the L&M connection (and Tess’ leaving the group as a result of that connection) – a connection that Liz has broken by her deception at Future Max’s urging in TEOTW. But, has she truly broken that “connection” irreparably or just temporarily? It appears that Max can’t totally let go of the connection. After events in NY, Max seems willing to give their Friendship another try, and in “A Roswell Christmas Carol,” his turning to Liz for help in his time of need, only confirms that even more. As Max says in the end – once Liz has helped him overcome his trial of conscience – he “believes in her!” In the Hybrid Chronicles it is obvious that Max still cares deeply for and worries about Liz, but is trying to respect her need to be kept out of “it.” But, once again – with the discovery of the Blue Goop – he has to turn to Liz for help. And as usual, Liz is the one to help move them to the solution to the problem. Though it was a team effort, they all looked to Liz for direction and guidance.

There is MORE to the Liz/Max connection than just a romantic relationship, as we have always assumed. She is his trusted advisory, his sound of reason, she is the yin to his yang (or is he the yin to her yang? ), and she helps him connect to his human side, finding that there is strength in his humanity! BUT - Lets go back to the beginning, since few questions regarding that connection have been answered this Season – though we did get some vital information in MITC!

Consequence of the Connection – the Change?

Most believe that when Max healed Liz and then caused a "reverse connection" (Pilot), that something changed in Liz. We now know from the events in MITC that LIZ WAS CHANGED, and is developing powers, but how come?! How has that change come about? Whether the change in Liz was new or an awakening of something already a part of her is not known. Apparently Future Max knew Liz had the potential to “change” since he made the comment that she wasn’t letting it happen, but did he know the true potential of that change and what initiated it or prevented it from occurring? Is Liz’s “change” only a result of Max “bringing her back,” what Ava’s reaction to hearing this news seems to imply – or is there something more involved! Many feel there is something that goes to the core of who Liz is:
· Maybe from a past life on the pod squad’s planet (Antar)? (Is she the true love of Max’s previous life? Could she be the “true bride” – only sent on a different ship to prevent easy discovery, with Tess serving as an unknowing dupe. But if so, and she is part alien, why did she disappear in Wipeout? She did cause the Skin’s shed skin to disintegrate, but that could have other reasons for occurring. Maybe she is purely human, but contains the “true bride’s” essence – but in a different configuration than the Hybrid pod squad?)
· Could Liz or her essence have had a previous life encounter with Max’s alien “essence” or human DNA donor here on Earth? Maybe Max’s alien predecessor conducted reconnaissance through possessing a human, and somehow “met” and romanced a predecessor to Liz – but was called back to Antar, leaving his true love behind.
· Was Liz the original “4th” podster (and Max’s true mate) who “hatched” early, failed to have her alien essence develop completely, and was humanized by her human parents? (Though this seems unlikely now that we know that Tess has a dupe in Ava. But, why did they show that leaking pod in Sof47, and is it relevant to Liz? Could Tess/Ava be a ruse – as mentioned above - to protect the true queen, Liz, from being discovered before she has time to develop her powers that would protect her and her loved ones?)
· Was Liz the "second in command" referred to in the Mom'ogram, who somehow (deliberately?) was separated from the group and sent separately to Earth? (Again this seems highly unlikely after MTD & MITC.) However, Liz is Max’s most trusted advisor, and the one most likely to keep him staying the course!
· Could Liz be the Trojan Horse – containing something within her of importance to the podsters or their enemies, such as the Key to operating the Granolith – or contain the essence of a Leader, such as part of Max’s alien essence, that draws him to her? (If you watch “Buffy,” think of the storyline with Dawn as the Key be sought by Glory!)
· Could she be the 5th Element prophesized about back on Antar? And the reason Earth was chosen as the hiding place for the Granolith and the Royal 4 x 2? Could this explain Ava’s reaction to hearing Liz’s story? Ava had heard this story foretold during her previous life on Antar of a special human who would be brought back to life by their king, and would ultimately be the source of salvation for their world as well as her own?
· Could it just be Liz's extremely advanced human intelligence (she is a self-admitted “nerd”) that "connects" her to Max. (Let’s hear it for Smart Girls! )

These are just a few of the MANY theories offered. The connection that Max had to Liz started the day he first got off the bus in kindergarten (or 1st grade) and saw her, and was awakened in Liz by the healing and reverse connection that occurred in the Pilot. (And would that connection have also existed with Zan if he had ever seen Liz? Zan apparently had been waiting and searching for someone special all his human life – and he never connected with Ava the way one would have expected if she was his mate even though they had (we assume) spent their entire life on Earth – in the NYC sewers - together. I guess we will never know unless Zan could somehow be brought back to life with the healing stones (all 5 of them w/ Liz present) – anything is possible? We don’t know what happened to his body!) Liz seems to have been drawn to Max prior to the healing, too, but figured he was not interested in her. (“Maria, this Face? Max Evans? No Way?” [paraphrasing]) Liz looks directly at Max as he gets off the bus, with a sort of recognition. They obviously knew each other since 3rd grade, and were friends and lab partners more recently. Some have wondered if the way Max held the back of Liz’s neck during the healing could have changed her cerebral cortex – the location that Pierce said the Special Unit had identified as the source of the aliens’ powers – powers that we know are all human (according to Harding in WR). Could the number of connections also come into play into “changing” Liz, or awaking already – yet dormant – powers existing within her? Ava’s reaction to Liz’s story seems to imply that the healing alone was enough for the change – but … what about Kyle (Buddha Boy?), and all the kids in the hospital? There seems to be more to initiating the “change” than just the healing! Though Kyle may develop his own powers someday (though maybe changing TV channels is not one of them ), and so could the kids?

Origin of the Connection – Where is Liz from, really?

Many have wondered about Liz’s origins! A few of the common questions raised include:
· Are her parents her “true” birth parents or is Liz adopted like the Evans kids?
· Did Grandma Claudia have a relationship with an alien that passed something on to Liz?
· Does Liz have a connection to the Indians or an (ancient) alien race?
· Why does Liz look so much like Sheila Hubble?
· How does all this play into the connection with Max and Liz’s new found “abilities/powers”? (The first of her “powers” appearing to be astral projection.)
· Is Liz totally of human origin or does she have some alien “blood” - literally or figuratively – in her that allowed for the change to occur?

We know that Liz’s cheek cells differed from Max’s in the Pilot, BUT we did not see what another “human’s” cheek cells looked like, so it is possible that Liz’s cells are different, too. (Though a doctor probably would have picked up on this by now; however, what if there are many variations of cellular structures in the alien worlds, and Liz matches one of these?) Could Liz be descended from an alien race that colonized Earth thousands of years ago? (This is my personal favorite theory!! ) There seems to be many clues that point to this possibility – but nothing definite. We now know there are at least 5 planets involved in the Antar conflict, each with (presumably) at least one race of inhabitants – any one of which could have come to Earth to colonize years ago. These races could be of common decent, or there could be many variations. We know from White Room that the alien that was studied had a cerebral cortex similar to ours (humans), that did not have a bone structure like ours – thus, the shock that Max did. Could the similarities that the alien had be due to a common ancestor to humans – one that traveled to Earth many years ago either colonizing Earth or intermingling with the humans here. We don’t know for sure that the alien that was studied was a shapeshifter – we just assume it was, but it could have been another alien, different from the shapeshifters, that was on board the ship (or another ship that crashed.) We also know that the Skins (who are NOT Skins on Antar – only on Earth – so how did Nasedo know what they called themselves?) share powers common to the pod squad whose powers are all human. Why are these powers so similar if they don’t have a common ancestry? Does this mean that the beings that are Skins are from the same race of beings that the essences of the podsters are from? Will humans – like Liz – be able to eventually acquire some of these powers?

Rath sarcastically comments about how hard it is to travel through space to Earth – thus the need to possess humans long-distance – but the podsters obviously got here somehow (and fairly quickly if the comments concerning the warring for 50 years is correct - I will explain this if you don’t get what I mean – just ask) – so travel to and from Earth must be possible and not unreasonable from a time point of view. Could that ancient race somehow be connected to the podsters’ Antar predecessors from long ago? Could Liz and Max have a common ancestor – from long, long ago? (AND I’m not talking incest here – just a common ancestor like all humans do!)

Granolith – How does it fit in?

We know that the Granolith CAN be used as a time travel machine, but this is NOT its intended purpose. What is its intended purpose? Whitaker and Courtney seemed to think it was a means to their salvation – but why? It is obviously of great importance! Could the Granolith be like a Holy Grail of the V constellation? The “Holy Grail” was meant to be found by a man with a pure heart who will use it to feed the hungry and heal the sick, and with it will bring peace and happiness to the land. So – whose heart is the purest in Roswell? Could it be Liz? The Granolith could be like Excalibur from the King Arthur tales, to be used as an instrument of the righteous, by a good man (or woman) for a good cause. So – who fits that description? Max? Did you see the reaction of the other “leaders” when informed that Khivar was not in possession of the Granolith, and that it was on Earth under Max’s guard? If it is only a transport system, I doubt they would have had such a concerned reaction – so there must be more to the Granolith than that. Some have speculated that it might be the energy source for a hidden ship – which it makes sense that a ship for return to Antar would be hidden “in plain sight” somewhere in the Roswell! But, I think it is more than a mere power source – though maybe a power source in the Grand sense of the term!

Could the Parkers (who have resided in Roswell for 4 generations) be the prophesized protectors of the Granolith, or could the Indians in the area be such protectors? Liz has yet to see the Granolith. Maybe it will react when she enters it. Maybe Liz holds something within her that is the key to the operation of the Granolith! Was the Granolith used by others than FM to travel in time? Apparently Liz and future friend Serena were the ones to make it work as a time machine – so did others have a chance to use it this way before their discovery? So, many questions – still! … ! The speculation continues! Oh, AND Why hasn’t Max asked Liz point blank how she knew about the importance of the Granolith?! Umm…..

Destiny – Liz and Max!

Though much is made of Max’s Destiny being Tess {I’m no longer going to use the snake sign for Tess since attending a Reptile seminar and learning Snakes are our friend! Anyone have a sign for a rat?}, many of us wonder if Liz is actually his Destiny due to the use of the Human DNA and where it came from, or some past alien connection or other prophecy. The use of that human DNA could have totally altered the previously “planned” destiny. There is also much thought given to whether the alien Max played out his original “destiny” on Antar when killed in the conflict that envelopes that place, and that now has an entire new “destiny” that includes Liz – one that could not have been anticipated by his home planet creators OR well planned out knowing that a “human” alliance would be necessary to save both the podsters’ people and the human race. Many posters have wondered “Why?” send the Hybrid pod squad (in duplicate form) to Earth if there wasn’t some benefit to being Human and on Earth. Obviously, distance from their home planet was not one of the benefits. Could the Max/Liz alliance be foretold in an ancient Indian or alien prophecy? (One of my personal favorite theories! Is she the necessary “5th Element – see below.) This would explain Ava’s reaction. Maybe she had “heard” the prophecy? (I am ignoring the cut scenes that Rooney posted that explained that the Dupe’s shapeshifter had warned that anyone they brought back would be changed, not necessarily for the better, because if it is not aired, it might not be the way the writers/producers have decided to take the show.) Zan’s “searching for someone” that Ava spoke briefly about, also seems to imply that he felt someone special was out there that he was meant to connect with – maybe Liz or Serena – I guess we will never know unless he is “brought back” somehow.

Most of us draw a clear distinction between someone’s “destiny” and “duty.” We – mostly – also believe that by using human DNA for the pod squad, and the fact that they were raised as humans, brings the issue of “free choice” into play. The continuing debate of “nature” vs. “nurture” also comes up here – and is a hot topic in the news right now with the publishing of the Genome Project! And is the pod squad’s “nature” completely “alien” given that all their powers are (supposedly) “human” according to Harding. (I’m not going to get into it in this Intro – but the fact that the Skin’s powers are similar to the pod squads’ powers – which are advanced human powers – which are supposed to be similar to the powers they had on Antar seems to imply that humans must be capable of the these powers someday and have a common ancestor with the Skins and pod squaders in the distant past – Ummm …! )

Watching the difference between the two pod groups truly brings the Nurture element to the forefront. There has also been an excellent analysis of what “essence” truly means, and can a being’s destiny or soul follow the transfer of one’s essence. Could the essence of one being have been split between two beings – Max and Liz (and Zan)? Also, does one’s memory follow one’s essence? Tess seems to think it does, but … why is she the only one with these memory retrieval abilities among the podsters and her memory retrieval does not seem very complete! (None of us are too fond or trusting of Tess :rat: , and that distrust only seems to be increasing with time – though TPTB seem to be softening her character with the Kyle interaction!) Though the Dupes do seem to have memories of their past lives – at least Lonnie appears to - we do not know how much of this was taught them by their shapeshifter. Also, are the visions Max’s previous alien being’s memories (like that flash of a weird head he gets before confronting Brody), or are they coming from someone (i.e., Tess, another shapeshifter) or somewhere (i.e., Granolith, Antar) else? We now know Max has the V formation (the royal seal) tattooed on his brain! What else is stored deep within him, and can he get to the point he will be able to freely access and prevent having it MRd out of him? AND what is stored deep within Liz, waiting for the appropriate time to be released??

There have also been many wonderful discussions concerning what "destiny" truly means, and how the environment (the "nurture" argument) can affect one's destiny. Also, is history “destined” to repeat itself – an important issue now with the introduction of the Vilandra storyline and the small amount of what we know of past podster actions. Liz has prevented the past from repeating itself in MITC - Zan was killed through treachery on Antar, then New Zan was killed through treachery again in NY, but Max (a Zan Hybrid) survived due to Liz’s new found power and intervention! As Future Max emphasized, and Max has commented many times: “We make our own Destiny!” Maybe yes, maybe no?? Maybe they make their own destiny with a little help from their Human Friends!

Follow Your Heart

Following one’s heart has been a focus in both seasons. Grandma Claudia told Liz to promise to always follow her heart wherever it leads her (LN), and then Liz followed her heart and believed Max when Tess showed up on the scene (TLV). Maria tells Max to follow his heart (AN), like all the great leaders have. Does this mean that by following their hearts Max and Liz will not only turn out to be great leaders, but will eventually be led back to one another? Given the current strain on their relationship, Max will have to follow his heart in order to be led back to Liz. He has already begun the journey with his decision to be her friend once again (MITC and ARCC). He has even stated that he believes in Liz, and though this is meant more in a friendly way than a romantic way, it is a sign that Max is following his heart back to her! But Liz’s heart seems to be in a state of confusion with the introduction of Sean! But maybe, just maybe, her interactions with Sean will only convince her heart more than ever that Max is her true soulmate!

Symbolism – WE Do Not Ignore Anything!

The symbolism throughout the both seasons is incredible – whether meant to be or not! (WE love the Set Decorators! ) I can only touch on some of it here, but here are some examples. Max changes his cards from a royal pair to two diamonds so that Liz’s Dad (who is asking Max what he is hiding!) can win the round of cards. The two diamonds have popped up again recently on the beer Michael holds in Sof47, and prominently in the background at the Deluca Residence! Are Max and Liz the two diamonds hiding in plain sight? Is it “in the cards” as Lonnie says? Once you notice it, the diamond shape shows up often and everywhere (e.g., Valenti’s front door, Michael’s wallpaper).

We often look for “V”s, but as SweetJo noted - two “V”s make a diamond <>! Then Metaphyical took that another step – If you look at a diamond, which the Granolith definitely looks like, it is made up of many different V's. (See the picture of a diamond!) She then research octahedrons – which are 2 four-sided pyramides attached at the square bottom. If you connect 5 of these – you get the shape of the alien communicator! She then looked up Fluorite Octahedrons since they kept being mentioned, and it turned out they are used for Balancing!! Fluroite helps one to balance and stabilize the emotional, mental, and physical bodies. Isn’t it amazing what you learn here!!

Eagles and horses also seem to show up often – and again, we can tie them to Liz and Max – the most notable example being the Indian myth that states that the eagle feather needs both sides to be “in balance.” Max and Liz must follow their hearts to each other to find that connection and balance! Liz could be the Trojan Horse in which something of great importance is hidden. There is a prominent picture of a Ship between Max and Maria when they are discussing his love for Liz. The old Scandinavian tale of the ghost-ship, on which Wagner based his score "The Flying Dutchman," symbolizes the quest for fidelity in love. In desperation the Dutchman wanders the seas, hoping to meet the woman who will be eternally faithful. Senta, emotionally absorbed by the same ideal, swears that she will be faithful to the Dutchman unto death. However, in doing so, she betrays her fiancé Birk and suffers the same damnation as the Dutchman she was trying to save. The Dutchman puts out to sea, but his vessel founders, while Senta leaps from the rocks and is drowned. HOWEVER - the pair are now seen RISING from the now-CALMED waters, TRANSFIGURED and REDEEMED by their SACRIFICE. Salvation is not a impossibly idealistic dream, but exists in the courageous acceptance of reality.

Red roses (love) are thrown by Max to Liz, than changed to White roses (peace) at the last minute in an episode (TEOTW) that Liz must sacrifice her love for Max to ensure peace on Earth. Yvonne “White” was the nurse that disappears in Summer of ’47. And there is another White that shows up on the Silverhandprint site! Max lights a “white” pinecone in ARCC. The ancient Greeks and Assyrians viewed the pinecone as a symbol of masculinity because of its phallic shape, and it represented both fertility and immortality. As the emblem of Artemis, it represented feminine purity. It was also the emblem of the Roman goddess Venus. In Christianity, the pinecone forms the crown of the Tree of Life. Because of its swirling form, it is associated with dynamic generative and cosmic power. Here we see Venus is mentioned and also the Tree of Life (remember the women on the reservation told Liz that was what the symbol was on the necklace) also feminine purity seems to play an important role for Liz at this point. (Thanks Evid!) (And this is just the tip of the iceberg! We go on for pages about this stuff!)

Then there is the Dragon that has been prominent on Liz’s window this season – though it was present last season. We were in the "year of the dragon." Here are some Dragon “meanings”:
· In the Chinese Horoscope, the Dragon is in the FIFTH ranking order.
· The Dragon's corresponding western sign is ARIES.
· The Dragon’s ruling planet is VENUS.
Although Liz herself doesn't seem to be born in Year of the Dragon, it does seem the Dragon symbolism is most often made with her and only her (unless dragons have been popping up on other characters’ windows?). But since it was the year she discovers that she had “powers,” it is reasonable to think of her as being “reborn” in the Year of the Dragon … as the Dragon. (Thank You Meloudious 1, Starbox and Bluecornmoon, Charmed Kitten for your thoughts on the Dragon!)
Then there is the Arthur C. Clarke book, “Childhood’s End” that is found in “Four Squares” (Thanks reguru!). Following is a summary written by a reader on Amazon – a coincidence? “It is ...in this book the "Overlords" are a mysterious, powerful, but ultimately tragic group of beings that have vastly potent minds, but that cannot undergo the spiritual metamorphosis that would take them into direct communion with the sort of Godhead that directs their (and human) destiny. I liked Clarke's ideas about utopia, which is more or less what the Earth becomes after a few generations under the guidance of the Overlords. He seems to have had a lot of fun playing with ideas about future art forms, for example, among other things. However, this utopian society is doomed, because of an unforeseen, quantum leap in evolution, that turns out to be an evolution of the communal spirit. Clarke has a lot to say here about what connects us to each other, as human beings. Are we all linked with some higher being at the level of spirit, in the manner that islands would be revealed to be all linked, if one were to somehow drain the world's oceans? Or is striving toward a planned, ordered, social utopia, with allowances made for developing all of every individual's gifts to the fullest possible degree, the best way to relate to each other?...” Interesting??
Stars show up often, both the five-pointed and the six-pointed star. It turns out that the six-pointed star, which is often linked to Judaism, has many other meanings. In the Middle Ages, for example, alchemists used it to symbolize the "quintessence," and "quintessence" is another word for "fifth element."
Alchemists also believed that the symbol of two overlapping lines with four arms of equal length had special meaning. We see many variation of this symbol in Roswell – one being the four pods connected in the center. Alchemists believed while each arm stood for an element (earth, water, fire, air), the point at which the lines of they intersected represented the fifth element. From their point of view, the fifth element was basically the intangible thing that makes up a human soul. Remember when Max tells Liz in Destiny: "Knowing you has made me human." In certain branches of science the diagonal cross symbolizes crossbreeding (hybridization) between two species or races. It is sometimes associated with Christ, and in ancient Chinese, it stood for the number 5. (Thanks Czech Please!)

There are lots of other symbols and clues to pick up on! Coincidence?? Probably some are, but not all of them – JK and RM are too intelligent and clever for that!

The “Bride” – will the real one please stand up!

In the Mom‘ogram, many have wondered if the reference to Max’s young “bride” has to be to Tess (The Evil Shape Shifter – Grace Kel )? OR could it be referring to Liz who was also standing right there? AND Why do they always use the word “bride”? Was the marriage never completed, or were they killed on the day of the wedding? (Larak – one of the alien leaders mentioned attending Max’s wedding, and never mentioned that the slaughter occurred that day, and never acknowledged Tess as Max’s mate!) Though many seem to accept that “bride” probably is referring to Tess, many wonder why they would send his bride with Max in the first place? Was Tess sent solely to provide a “mate” for Max (please – no gagging allowed on this thread), or was there another purpose for her presence? Why send a mate, unless the goal was to produce offspring and successors to the throne. What if Tess was sent to deceive the enemy, and the Real Bride was sent in a separate ship – and somehow the Real Bride’s essence ultimately ended up in Liz.

Future Max states that the 4 podsters made a complete unit that needed to be kept together because of their different gifts were needed to defeat the enemy. Maybe Tess is a warrior, led to believe she was the bride, when she really wasn’t. (Bad Boy Harding!!) And why make it so complicated? Do the Dupes have identical powers as their twin counterparts, or different powers? Why did they kill off one of their “unit” if it weakens them? Since their shapeshifter seemed to teach them so much, wouldn’t they have known the importance of keeping the unit together? There is also the question of whether the Mom’ogram is authentic, or a projection from Tess? (Did the Dupes see a similar projection previously or at the same time? They never mention seeing a Mom’ogram.) It was hard to tell when Tess’ projections/illusions left off and reality began. Was the Mom’ogram pre-recorded like a video tape (in which case – is Antar still in existence, or has it been destroyed by war or natural consequences? Apparently, it survives with Khivar in power – but with much “bloodshed”), or was it a direct communication with the home planet or a hidden spaceship (hidden by the V formation?) housing the heads of the allied forces?

The Books – WHY Doesn’t anyone read these things?

Concerns similar to those raised about the Mom’ogram have been raised about the “book” found by Tess with respect to its authenticity and reliability. Why does the book only include the four podsters now that we know there were two sets of pods and duplicates? And why do the pictures look just like our grown Roswell podsters and not their punkish Dupes? Did the Dupes receive a similar book? What is the meaning of the symbol on the front? The (.) symbol is of significance, meaning the Black Moon and representing Lillith (you have to read Starbox’s post about the relationship of Adam, Eve and Lillith to understand – but it is significant!). If this book is an instruction or operations manual for the pod squad, why have they not deciphered it by now? Why does Max have writing on his forehead, but no one else does?

Could Grandma Claudia’s book – which is in Liz’s possession (we assume) - help decode the alien’s book and shed light on the aliens’ connection to the Indians, an ancient alien race or others in the area? If the alien book is authentic, how did the aliens know exactly what the pod squad would look like when they grew up? Were they “engineered” to that degree of precision (with tattoos on their brains), and if so, why use human form? Why was the Earth chosen?? (Lots of discussion re: DNA, cloning, etc. - very interesting! ) Is there is any information in Whitaker’s files about translating the book, or resolving some of the mysteries surrounding the podsters?? WHY DID IT Take the announced death of Whitaker to get them to finally go through her files!!!! AND WHY DIDN’T THEY ASK COURTNEY AND AVA MORE QUESTIONS!!! (Sorry …a bit of a rant!) SCOOBY GANG - READ THE BOOKS! READ THE FILES! ASK MORE QUESTIONS!

Now we have Grandpa Dupree’s files and notes to add to the reference material they should all be reading and learning from! WHY AREN’T THEY!!??!!

The Catalyst – Liz!

Liz is also viewed – when the episodes are re-watched (multiple times by some of us! And in slow motion with a jog-shuttle! We fondly call this “Grace Kelled” ) – as a critical element to moving the plot along. She is the one who often initiates the actions that help unravel the aliens’ mythology or saves the day (e.g., thinking of the plan to throw Valenti off the trail in the Pilot, finding the way out of the hidden room at Atherton’s place, making the initial contact with River Dog, going to Valenti to seek help in rescuing Max, identifying where the skeleton would be taken, potentially sacrificing her future with Max to prevent Tess from leaving and the future take-over of the Earth, figuring out how the humans had disappeared and how to bring them back, connecting with Max to save his life in NY, coming up with the idea that helps Max restore his balance in ARCC, figuring out the Blue Goop is a parasite and determining that Kyle had killed the blue crystals by suffocating them, etc.). Liz is a Leader that takes action when it is needed, and is the intellect that comes up with the plan. (Future Liz was the one that sent FM back in time, and Liz was the one to come up with the plan to make Max “fall out of love with her.”) The Pod Squad would be no where without Liz!

Vision Quest – How does Liz fit in?

Liz could possibly be the equivalent to Max – whom we now know is the once and future leader of his people – though apparently of questionable abilities and judgment. (Who knows who and what to believe on this one??) Could Liz be the human equivalent of Max that is here to help Max save the human race, as well as free the pod squad’s people? Again – Does Liz’s connection “complete” or complement Max, and bring him into “balance”? Max seems to believe that Liz is his voice of reason, and knows him better than anyone else – even Iz! (We learn this from the JK and JB commentary on ARCC.) Could Liz possess part of Max’s alien essence? Is Liz the 5th Element, necessary to bring power and balance to the Royal 4? Liz is also a brain – which is relevant when we find out in the White Room that the podsters are just very advanced humans (approximately 3000 years ahead of us normal mortals!). Could her intelligence (combined with her connection with Max) mean that she has the potential to obtain more of the “powers” that the pod squad have? Many had expressed that they would NOT be surprised if Liz would be capable of some advanced powers in the future, and that her visions may be just a precursor to these. NOW WE KNOW LIZ HAS POWERS (astral projection, at least) – just not the extent of those powers, whether they are still developing (probably!), and how the visions play into her powers! Will she be the one able to see the evil within as the Mom’ogram says the podsters will have to be able to do? Is that what she was "seeing" when she kissed Harding/Evil Max? Does she only get visions while kissing or in a state of heightened emotion (i.e., the hand touching in SH in Chemistry class; arm touch in Ask Not – did you notice the first vision was of traveling through space)? The aliens supposedly get such visions sometimes according to Max in Missing – remember the vision he got of Kyle in Liz’s bedroom and the visions Iz gets in Surprise (though those may have been “projected” visions from Tess to get Iz’s attention for help). And why did Max have visions that belonged to Liz when he was being MRd by Nicholas? Is their connection that strong? Max seemed to get visions from those closest to him – Iz, Mikey G and Liz – while being MRd, but none from Tess – his supposed mate. Why? AND when is he going to get a vision of FM and what Liz has sacrificed?

All of Liz’s visions have been examined in-depth, and it is hard to summarize (is that what I’m doing?? Opps! ) all the thoughts here. We also now know that Kyle did not get visions from Max during Kyle’s healing – which is not huge, but goes to the question - WHY is LIZ the ONLY human to have VISIONS? Is this one of her new “powers”? Not only has she been able to “see into Max’s soul,” but also she has seen travels through space and a distant galaxy, the crash on Earth, and her visions were the reason the second communicator was discovered. Many feel these visions were not coming from Max, but from an outside source – or a source INTERNAL to Liz just “now” being released or awakened. Some of the visions seemed to be from the perspective of the communicator itself or an alien hiding it (a deep breathing – out-of-breath alien). Some wonder if others - aliens? - have observed Liz for some time. The shot came from two “strangers” who mention – “We have to get rid of her” – in the background (listen carefully while Liz shows the alien picture to the tourist couple) right before she is shot. Was her shooting intentional – and if so, WHY (and by whom – shapeshifters, time travelers, other aliens)?? Why would anyone (or any being) "watch" Liz prior to the shooting unless she has an importance we are not aware of yet (though we suspect, and TEOTW & MITC seem to confirm somewhat)? And who’s eyes are we seeing through watching Liz and Maria at the beginning of Wipe Out? The same eyes that watched Max at school and Harding by his car in the alley? The vision seems similar to that Liz gets in SH when she “sees” the orb being buried. Could this be Tic Tac - another alien that we believe has been watching them – Liz included? (I do not believe that Harding, Nasedo and Tic Tac were all one and the same shapeshifter!) Could his blurred vision be the result of testing he was subjected to, and the tic tacs pills that he takes to maintain his “balance”?

Time Travel – “Run, Lola, Run”

Now that we know that time-travel is possible, has it come into play already in a way we are not aware of – yet? Could this we the THIRD time around, similar to “Run, Lola, Run” – which was mentioned in Surprise as the story of Liz’s life? (First scenario being Liz doesn’t get shot and rescued by Max, thus they never connect and she never develops her powers, the second being Liz gets shot and marries Max at age 19 but fails to develop her powers fully due to the premature cementing, and the third being the path we are on now!) Watch the movie, and see what you think! Do Liz and Max have more than one chance to get things “right” – and ultimately, to be together in peace and harmony? Also, catch the four square symbol on the door with the swirl through it – the same as in the Season 2 promos? OH – and what will Liz do with the knowledge she now has from FM concerning the Granolith – she did warn Max before he so rudely left for NY, and that warning prevented him from turning it over to the other aliens - and the potential for Tess to leave or turn evil (by not helping the podsters)? Won’t someone (Max in particular!) wonder how she knows these things? Her knowledge concerning the Granolith has already begun to bug Max – it has to eat at him now that he knows she has been changed! Does he really “know” as Kyle seems to think Max always does? Why isn’t he asking Liz about her the source of her knowledge??

Hero Journey – Liz’s Path

[The following is a summary of what BehrAll pulled together on another thread, and I’m applying it to LIZ! I thank all who may have contributed to this originally, and apologize for not mentioning your name. I believe the bulk of the following was quoted from NyLoN? And that Czech please also contributed to the post.] The Hero's Journey is perhaps the most famous method of storytelling ever. First used by Homer, it was given 'shape' by Joseph Campbell in the 20th century. It has been the basis for many of the most famous and popular works of fiction.

The Hero's Journey is a series of stages that a heroine must go through during her adventure. The stages are flexible in that they are not clearly defined, and Campbell admits that one need not follow all the stages for it to be a true journey. The Hero's Journey (HJ) does not apply to an entire plotline, but rather to a character or several characters and their evolution throughout a series. In our case, we believe that Liz is in the process of the HJ. Following are the HJ stages with references of how it applies to Liz (which I added):
1. Call to Adventure - The heroine must first be forcibly drawn into the adventure, this occurs from a normal occurrence and not something strange or supernatural. Liz’s healing after being shot would be such an event.
2. Threshold Guardian - The heroine must face a minor obstacle that blocks her way to the adventure. Okay – there are more obstacles that Liz has faced than I can mention here, but being a small-town girl who is human may be the initial minor obstacle.
3. Wise and Helpful Guide - The inexperienced heroine must find a guide who will aid her with advice and materials that will be instrumental in her journey. I’m not sure who this could be – Grandma Claudia seems the obvious choice, but River Dog could be on too. But this goes along with my belief that someone is watching over Liz.
4. Into the Labyrinth - The heroine must step out into the unknown and the “den of evil.” Getting involved with Max was stepping into the unknown. Working to defeat the enemy is stepping into the “den of evil.”
5. Heroic Deeds - The heroine must engage in mortal combat, often sacrificing something or someone for the further good to continue her quest. Liz has faced death – think escape from the FBI Special Unit – and sacrificed her own “happy” future with Max in TEOTW for the greater good.
6. Trials - The midway point of the hero's journey is marked by a series of trials, ordeals, tests and obstacles.
7. Into the Belly of the Beast - A popular occurrence is the literal swallowing of the heroine by some great beast. This often marks the entrance to a mythical world where a great transformation occurs. However, in most works the belly of the beast is a metaphor for a stronghold of the enemy. Okay – Liz had to confront the Skins before disappearing, and there are probably other examples out there.
8. Sacrifices - The opening of the mind and heart of the heroine requires her be prepared to (or in some cases does) sacrifice something of great import to her. Okay, think TEOTW – need I say more???
9. Atonement - The hero's journey sometimes includes a "father (or mother?) quest." After many trials and ordeals, the heroine finds her father and becomes "at one" with him. (Note, occasionally this step is eliminated to create 13 stages.) Since we don’t know the circumstances of Liz’s birth, we assume that her dad is her true dad, but ….
10. Return - The heroine then returns to her home with newfound powers, knowledge or ability to benefit her people. Liz does have newfound powers, but … Maybe this is for Season 3??
11. Return of Evil - The heroine is not the only one who is reborn, the forces of evil also reform and come anew. Okay – this could happen numerous times over the course of Roswell!
12. Enchanted Forest - The inhabitants of the enchanted forest are strange creatures who can be both helpful and dangerous. The heroine must know how to get them to aid her on her quest. (Note, this is the second most likely step to be removed to create 13 stages.) Liz has already “befriended” Ava – definitely a “strange creature, and Ava added Liz’s quest to save Max. I would see Liz as instrumental in working with other creatures to seek their assistance.
13. Heart of Darkness - The heroine must enter the center of power for evil in order to destroy it or its' leader. This definitely could happen in future episodes! I can see her ability to see the evil within (if that proves true) coming in useful there.
14. Final Victory and Journey's End - In the end the heroine triumphs over evil and brings forth something new, be it enlightenment, power, understanding or a whole new society. Is there any doubt!!!

Liz’s relationship with Max is key in her journey, but it isn't the only issue she's dealing with (or needs to deal with!). The Hero's Journey can be physical or emotional. An emotional journey, such as usually occurs in a romance, takes the protagonist from her normal state of affairs and challenges her ideas, beliefs and current existence. A proactive protagonist responds to such challenges, undergoing tests of her moral fiber and emotional strength. Frequently she will have to examine all that she has believed to be true before a major confrontation. It is here that she pulls victory from disaster. And it is here that she seeks to return to normalcy. Many writers believe this is the end of the journey. But it isn't.
TEOTW as probably Liz’s "major confrontation" since it was her actions here that pulled "victory from disaster." The future was changed and (we assume) the events FM warned her of do not come to pass. At this point, she knows all she has gone through with (and for) Max has changed her, but believes that part of her life is over now. Liz is hoping that things can be relatively normal again, and has been trying to resume the life she had before Max. But as we all see, she will, of course, be unsuccessful.

The issue at the heart of Liz's HJ, the thing that she must overcome, is the myth of her own insignificance. She believes firmly in her ability to control her own destiny, but often dismisses the notion that she is any more than an obstacle to Max's journey. She's wrong, of course! In TEOTW, we learn that it is their love that damns them and those they care about. This is huge! Liz's romance, her emotional connection, determines the fate of the world. And ultimately, she is the one with the power to save everyone. Unfortunately, she doesn't recognize this power, only the fact that she will be alone now. Her journey isn't over yet.

Liz and Max's respective HJ's have intersected many times already, and we believe that they will eventually merge together. This is why many of us don't worry too much about their couple status. Most of us believe there is much more to Liz than we have seen and that her destiny is more important than she could possibly imagine. We believe things she has accepted at face value her whole life will be turned upside down. Her ultimate sacrifice will be the belief that she is normal. Once she accepts that she is no longer "the smallest of small town girls," she will need to accept entirely new perspectives and responsibilities. At that point, the HJ that has we've seen unfold on Roswell so far will be over and another phase in her life will begin.

Grandma Claudia – the first connection?

The picture Liz shows the tourists in the Pilot was supposedly taken by her Grandmother at the crash before the military arrived – a connection or just a joke as we were supposed to think? Could GC be Yvonne White (as in “peace”) who disappeared in Sof47, only to resurface with her new and married name – Claudia Parker? Many have speculated about Grandma Claudia’s involvement and her book about the Ancient Treasures of the Navajo Indians. Could Grandma Claudia have had contact with the aliens previously? Perhaps GC helped them when she was younger, and they entrusted valuable information with her just as with River Dog. Was Grandma Claudia killed intentionally? Did she know that Liz was “special,” thus, necessitating the early arrival and that “soulmate” discussion? Is Liz affected or a product of one of these earlier alien contacts? Could Liz have an alien relative – recent or distant? There seems to be many hints connecting ancient Indian cultures to the podsquad or other aliens, including the Machu Picchu in Peru culture highlighted at the UFO Museum, the continuing references to “ancient languages” (e.g., Liz’s Blind Date Doug Shellow’s major at the UofNM and where the aliens’ manual was hidden in the library), the traditional Indian music in the background throughout MITC, and Grandma Claudia’s studies. Only coincidence? We think not! Could Liz’s review of her Grandmother’s possessions in Season 2 reveal those connections? We are hopeful! (COME ON WRITERS – WHERE ARE THE INDIAN CONNECTIONS FROM SEASON 1? WHY ISN”T ANYONE READING GC’s BOOK? WHERE IS THE DETECTIVE IN THE SCOOBY GANG!!)

Lifebonds vs. Soulmates

Norma Bates & Tasyfa contributed these thoughts! Soulmates are usually described as people being very alike in feelings and motivation. They work very well together for common goals. They have a connection of purpose and a similarity in thinking. Their skills complement each others so that together they accomplish more and are stronger/better than if they worked individually toward the same goal. But soulmates aren’t necessarily a permanent connection and they could be with several people. However, Lifebonds take "soulmate" one step further. Lifebonds are usually found in telepathic sci-fi (Kathy Tyers' "Firebird" for example) and fantasy genres. Before they can be lifebonded, they must be soulmates first. They are linked together mentally, emotionally and constantly. Lifebonds in fiction are rare and not taken lightly. They are a permanent one on one connection…till death do they part. The creation of a lifebond is a matter of choice. It doesn’t just happen. Authors sometimes use the theory that if a pair decides to lifebond, they spend some time apart first (so don’t worry Dreamers! ;grin: ), to strengthen and stretch the bond (to change the bond) and to contemplate on their choice. Both must agree and be fully committed to each other. There is no divorce option except death. Once that is done, the 2 open their connections to each other, mind and soul, to the fullest extent and then “cement” their relationship, making the bond permanent.

The drawbacks to life bonding includes:
· If they are separated from each other, they feel incomplete, not whole.
· Long term separation can lead to mental instability or insanity because one balances the other’s strengths and weaknesses emotionally and physically.
· If one of a bonded pair dies, it can cause a deep depression to the point of suicide. The remaining survivor has trouble adapting and balancing themselves.

Some things that lifebonds aren’t:
· They are not mind reading skills. They send strong impressions or emotions. Right now, if Max and Liz were lifebonded, he would know she was lying but not why unless she told him.
· They are still separate people capable of misunderstandings.
· Lifebonds cause a lot of stress and misunderstanding because they are so close emotionally, they forget to communicate verbally.
· Having secrets between a lifebonded pair causes a lot of frustration and pain between them.

Could what FM is talking about in TEOTW be a hint that, not knowing what they were doing, Liz and Max became lifebonded too soon? Liz wasn’t going to change or be able to lifebond to Max without first making a decision that she wanted to go ahead with the relationship. From Destiny until TEOTW she kept herself apart and tried to withdraw, but after seeing Madame Vivian she changed her mind and decided to take a chance…to start changing. Perhaps FM found out that Liz would develop her own powers if they hadn't become lifebonded and solidified the links so early. FM coming back and keeping her separated allowed the connections to grow stronger. Liz needed time to stretch the links, to change both physically and mentally, and taking Isabel's hand in MITC was only the first step of finding out whom she really is and what she is capable of doing.

Sheila Hubble – Eerie resemblance to Liz! – What’s the connection?

Another major topic of interest is Liz’s connection to Sheila Hubble! The resemblance between the two is amazing, and other parallels exist (e.g., pictures of both driving in an open-air car with the wind blowing through their dark hair). Plus, the visions that Liz receives from Max/Harding include Hubble’s wife at the death scene – meaning it had some significance to him. Did he kill her, or did the handprint come from a failed attempt to save her? Were the fireworks Hubble mentions seeing when kissing his wife the same as the stars Liz sees when kissing Max? Could Sheila Hubble be related to Liz somehow – an aunt, DNA donor, or was Sheila an alien? The fact that Sheila Hubble was three months pregnant with a girl seems to be relevant somehow – why else would they mention it?! Could the DNA from the girl or a twin have been used for the pod squad – Max maybe, or Tess – or for Liz? AND why is Tess' mother's name listed as Sheila on her school records? Everett Hubble, Ed Harding - both EH names with a wife named Sheila - INTERESTING! Ummmm!

Speaking of connections – Is Hal Carver somehow connected to Liz? He lives in Florida – the state Liz spent the entire summer. Who was Liz staying with while in Florida?? He was friends with her grandfather, Pete Parker. So, there is a connection to Liz. Did the aliens residing in Florida influence the vote count for the President? Do you think the writers will introduce a character from Florida named Chad? Ummmmm? And what happened to Hal?? Don’t you think he would want to stay connected to the podsters now that he knows they exist?

Venus – Liz’s connection to the stars!

Liz’s ability to “see” into Evil Max/Harding’s “soul” again points to the possibility that she may ultimately be able to “see the evil within.” What is it that she sees in these visions? Sheila Hubble, Lightening, a wormhole (the Granolith at work??), the high desert, clouds rolling in? Some see sea foam, which is related in mythology to Venus. Is Liz the Venus often referred to? The Venus constellation is often referred to in connection with Liz (e.g., Max in response to Liz saying her parents are on a trip to see Venus in the morning sky says “I thought she was standing in front of me.”). There are too many interesting connections for Venus not to mean anything, and we now know the V constellation is the Royal Crest with the home planet being the Venus Star at the bottom. Some example of what has been turned up. (THANKS Starbox?!) Both the Mayans and Aztecs used Venus and the Venusian cycle to establish their calendars. Venusian years are grouped in cycles of 5. (Were podster people here to assist those cultures/civilizations with these developments?) Venus is associated with the Sun - she is his twin. (Is there a Max/Sun connection too?) Venus is seen as an intermediary between the Sun and mankind. Venus has a dual nature - by night she is the goddess of love and pleasure and by day she is the goddess of battle. In astrology - the sense of touch is one of Venus's attributes (explains Liz's ability to receive flashes with just a touch - also the importance of hand holding again). Venus is the guardian spirit of horses. Venus is associated with "sensual feelings, instinctive attraction, intoxication (maybe that’s why that kiss sobered Max up – restored the balance), SMILES, seduction, charm, beauty and grace." Plus, Venus and Serena make an awesome doubles combination – tennis anyone! Also, there is one part of Venus – the planet - that is named after a male...the highest point on Venus, standing at 11 km, and the largest mountain range, the Maxwell Montes! (Thanks Nemo, WR, Starstruck, et al.)

Some new findings connecting to Venus include - Liz considers the smell of sulfur as “being home.” Venus has sulfur as a predominant chemical in its atmosphere. “The first time I walked into a chemistry lab and smelled that smell – the sulfur – I felt like I was home.” (Monsters) Is this part of an alien essence or past? (Thanks StarBox!) Also, Venus is hot and dry. Its atmosphere is mostly carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas. Its upper atmosphere contains sulphuric acid. Venus rotates very slowly (once every 243 earth days) in the direction opposite to most of the other planets and opposite to the motion of all of the planets around the sun. Its solar day is 116 days long. Venus goes around the sun once every 225 days. StarBox, Bluecornmoon and Zara conducted the following analysis - 225 (245?) days after Feb. 20 (SH) was October 25, the day of the Gomez' concert (TEOTW). The next "mating" cycle for Max and Liz will be June 23rd, 2001! As for Liz and Max's "need" for each other - It's not time yet!

Numbers – It all adds up to Liz and Max!

Could it be that the 4 squares (pod squad) + plus the fifth star being Liz “complete” the constellation? There were 5 healing stones – Why? The numbers 1, 4 and 5 seem to pop up often – why? We now know that there are 5 planets involved, but … Even the communication was done on 5/14 – those numbers again! TEOTW occurs in 2014! Some have found a connection between these numbers to Venus in astronomy and mythology, or could it be 1 for Liz, and 4 for the pod squad? Could Liz be the 5th Element foretold in prophecy (thus, Zan’s search and Ava’s reaction), and that is necessary to the success of the podsters? Or are these numbers just some writer’s favorite apartment number or address? It has been noted that 4 represents “Potential,” while 5 represents “Balance” and “Marriage between Heaven and Earth.” Ummmmm! We also have the evil aliens’ beeper that is a pentagon – 5 sided. The same shape as Atherton’s ceiling. Any connection? The number 2 has also been cropping up a lot lately – 2 as in Max and Liz or as in duplicates? Next time you watch ARCC, notice the house addresses for Brody and the Ghost’s family, and it’s the 23rd Annual celebration. They all add up to 5! On the Silverhandprint, notice the crime report for Liz’s shooting. The Crashdowns address and the time of the shooting all include 2, 3 and 4s! Someone is sending us a message – maybe it is that we are all nutty!

Cave Map Symbols – All signs lead to Liz?

And what significance does the cave map have to Liz's connection to the podsters? A number of the symbols in the cave “map” have raised some interesting analysis! What do they represent, and is Liz represented somehow - like one of the "dots" in the series of five boxes, one of which is open with the dot outside? This symbol recently arose again in Max’s visions in Wipe Out. Some have tried to identify each of the symbols and draw a correlation between the symbols and the various characters with some fascinating results! We also begun to analyze the symbols that were “flashed” in the promos for Season 2 – you definitely have to Grace Kel them or you miss them. Redhawk has done some wonderful screen caps of these for us to analyze! Is Liz the connection that holds the four squares together? See the discussion of lines and stars above!

The symbol on the necklace that leads to the cave looks like a yin/yang symbol. Audrey11 contributed the following - yin and yang have some references to things that have been discussed. This is a brief list of what they represent, mostly in reference to previous discussions.
Yin - conceived of as earth, female, present in even numbers, valleys and streams, represented by the tiger, the color orange and a broken line.
Yang - conceived of as heaven, male, present in odd numbers, mountains, represented by the dragon, the color azure and an unbroken line.
The concept of yin-yang in Chinese thought is associated with 5 elements: metal, wood, water, fire and earth, this idea lends substance to the characteristically Chinese belief in a cyclical theory of becoming and dissolution and an interdependence between the world of nature and human events.

Skins – What lies below the surface?

We now know that the "evil" aliens that we are aware of (there could be others) – Skins - came from the pod squad's planet, but are part of a civil war/revolution - therefore, seem to have similar characteristics and powers to the podsters – but it is not clear what all those powers are, except that shapeshifting does not seem to be one of them. They seemed to be confined to their husks, but they could be from the same race as the pod squad’s alien predecessors. Many of us think that the pod squad’s people had to have visited Earth before - maybe many times! Could other pods have been planted on Earth at a time separate from the 1947 crash? When would they have had time to construct the elaborate pod chamber with the hidden Granolith? And why put the Dupes in the sewers of NY? Yuck – I agree with Nicko on this one – at least with respect to the sewer aspect! :frown: How did the “mother bear” get those pods from NM to NY without being noticed? And, why did those podsters end up looking like punks? What happened to their shapeshifter/guardian, and why were Rath and Lonnie so protective of the information? How did the Skins – Nicko - find the Dupes? And could some of these earlier alien visits have some connection to Grandma C or someone else in Liz’s family? Was the ’47 crash caused by the evil aliens, or another ship of the “good” aliens? How long have the evil and good aliens been visiting or aware of Earth? Apparently the Skins originally arrived in 1950, but did they visit at another time? And what have they been up to on these visits? Brody was supposedly healed by aliens who abducted him, and now use his body for possession/visitations. Why? And are there another race or groups of aliens on Earth ? And, why in the world pick Earth to hide the podsters – in human form, with human DNA – unless, Earth, and the humanity it represents is essential to the podsters survival? Is that why the “more human” podsters were given possession of the Granolith? Once again, this would tie in Liz’s importance as a human – possibly the “chosen” human to assist in their survival – the 5th Element (I like this theory – can you tell ).

Shapeshifters – Are there more than one?

Most of us also think that there are more than one alien “watching” the pod squad, and that the tic-tac popping alien (AKA Tic Tac) (i.e., Hank-killer, one that found them asleep in the desert, and Dr. M impersonator, yet to show up in Season 2) is a different alien, possibly watching out for them (we hope!), than Harding/Nasedo (assuming Harding is Nasedo). And what about the person who burns their picture at the end of Blind Date - another alien or one of the above two? Some wonder if Tess, Doug Shellow, Pierce and/or Deputy Owen might be a shapeshifter, or evil aliens? There is a wonderful observation of the different ways Harding and Tic Tac shapeshift and the different colored light involved! Many feel that Tic Tac is a good alien watching over the podsters, but maybe he is watching over Liz, too! Some wonder if Tic Tac switched the orb in the desert before Liz and Max woke up? If he did, why? The orbs have become a significant focus of discussion – how are they connected to the alignment of the constellations, or to the pod squad, or to the evil aliens? Also – what was with the “visit” during Into The Woods? (Did you notice that FM appears with a lightning strike just like in ITW?) Was it a spaceship that left the marking, or a single alien? As far as the color analysis goes, generally yellow seems to represent – or be present – evil, and blue seems to represent good – though this is not always true. And then, there is always the green cells and occasional glow, and the red that seems to be present throughout Surprise! And where is Tic Tac so far in Season 2?? I can’t believe he and Harding were one and the same. Maybe Tic Tac was the Dupes’ shapeshifter who came back to Roswell.

Harding’s connection to Liz has been pondered often! Recently with the discovery of Liz’s change, many have wondered why Harding didn’t know about the change and mention it. Especially after reading the cut scenes from MITC. If Ava knew, Harding should have known and mentioned it. Of course, there are the long lingering questions like: Why was he so eager to kiss Liz – not just in the car, but also in bus after “saving” her? (Horny alien? ) Why did he save Liz and not Max from the house of mirrors? Could he have been Sheila Hubble’s lover or had some other strong connection to her, with a later connection to Liz? Could he have known Grandma Claudia? Could GC been connected to Sheila Hubble somehow? Harding did nothing – we know of – to harm Liz, but MANY are suspicious of his intentions, and his apparent failure to divulge information about Liz and the podsters’ origins. Was his sole reason for being on Earth to protect the podsquad – an official “worker bee”? And what did he do for all those years before Tess hatched? Some feel he was a bad alien using Tess to infiltrate the pod squad. Again, why didn’t he give them more information about themselves, Liz, the Dupes and what he had been up to? Why did Harding have such a large collection of antiques, which he was so sensitive about? Had he been around when they were original manufactured – years ago? There are so many questions he could have answered for the podsters before he was wasted! And was the fact that Liz was NOT present at the attempt to heal Harding the reason the healing failed? Maybe Liz is somehow necessary to make the stones work – part of the Balance? Was Harding responsible for Liz’s “great opportunity” in Congresswoman Whitaker’s office? If not, who was the connection there?

Odds and Ends

Some have noted the reoccurrence of handholding as symbolizing the connection between Max and Liz and the other podsters. Handholding has great significance in the Roswell High books as a form of joining energy, and we believe it does in the show too. The V constellation also looks like the joining of two hands. Also, in The Balance much is made of Max reaching out his hand to pull Michael from the pit, and M/I/M walking away holding hands. We wonder what would have happened in Harvest if Liz had stepped forward to join her power with Max instead of Tess – who did not seem to help at all. Iz held Liz’s hands to help her connect to Max – though it appeared to be slowly Liz’s powers that caused the connection. And who could miss Max grabbing Liz’s hand at mid-night mass and telling Liz, “I believe in you!” in ARCC!

Another recent development – the disintegration of Skin when picked up. Why did it not disintegrate when Maria picked it up, but did when the podsters and Liz picked it up? Could be moisture content, but it could be the energy generated by the person holding it. Does Liz generate energy similar to the podsters?

Dates

Finally – dates seem to be of interest to those on this thread. So, following is a rundown of dates as I’ve been able to gather them from episodes and factual research. I include them up-front for easy reference, but I would love to add dates of relevance you come across – PM me if you have one. I have added dates from the Silverhandprint site, but they don’t always jive with the episodes, so take them with a grain of salt.

1903 – James Atherton born (according to Crashdown Timeline)
1911 - James Atherton born in TN (according to 285S)
1927 - Buffalo Visitation
1932 – River Dog born on Mesaliko Indian Reservation (Crashdown Timeline)
1933 – Grandma Claudia born (Crashdown Timeline)
1935 – Picture of Michael’s DNA donor? (Hybrid Chronicle’s promo)
1942 – Deputy Owen Blackwood born on Mesaliko Indian Reservation (Crashdown Timeline)
1/15/43 – Pentagon (think beeper shape) completed
6/14/1947 - Crash
6/24/1947 - 9 Disklike objects spotted flying near Mt. Rainier in WA
7/4/1947 – Milton claims the crash occurred
7/7/1947 - Farmer Brazel (from Foster Ranch) finally reports debris from Roswell crash to sheriff, who calls Roswell Army Air Field
7/7/1947 – Privates Timothy Mann and Frank DiMuzio find Privates Bill Fifer and Jim McCarthy dead near crash site.
11/14/1947 - Everet Hubble born
1949 – Special Agent Lewis recruited to run FBI Special Unit (Silverhandprint)
1950 – Agent Lewis mentions “butchers at Eagle Rock” to wife [think Eagle Rock Military Base] (Silverhandprint)
2/4/1950 – Skins arrive on Earth (Harvest)
2/5/1950- 1st day in Skins (Whitaker Diary)
2/13/1950 – Skins’ motor skills improving (Whitaker Diary)
3/8/1950 - Vanessa Whitaker adopts her maiden name Vanessa Crawford (Whitaker Diary)
7/4/1950 – Skins have been looking for the Royal Four for three months (Whitaker Diary)
1950? - Observation of alien held in captivity by FBI ends (Escaped? Died?)
1951 – Phillip Evans and Sheriff James Valenti born (Crashdown Timeline)
1952 – Diane Evans (M&I Mom) and Special Agent Stephens born (Crashdown Timeline)
1952 - Atherton involved in Project Blue Book (Air Force project on aliens)
1955 - Jeff Parker born (Crashdown Timeline)
1955 – Atherton publishes “Among Us” (Crashdown Timeline)
10/4/1957 – Whitaker reports that morale is low, 20% of Skins have died, and that they must find the Granolith to go home (Whitaker Diary)
1957 – Nancy Parker (Liz’s Mom) born (Crashdown Timeline)
1/8/1958 – Whitaker states "How?" in her diary (Whitaker Diary)
1958 – Milton Ross born (Crashdown Timeline) [Note – this does not fit with him being old enough to be in the “Ice Cream Parlor Picture” from 1959 – unless he was a VERY mature 1-year-old]
11/16/1959 - Atherton dies (murdered?)
1959 - Milton (Max's Boss) has picture with "alien" shadow next to him outside the Ice Cream Parlor
1961 – Amy De Luca born (Crashdown Timeline)
11/3/1962 - Whitaker writes "Still can't talk about it.” (Whitaker Diary)
1962 - Agent Lewis - first head of Special Unit killed in Delta, CO
2/13/1963 - Nicolas was a general in the palace at home (Whitaker Diary)
1964 – Agent Kathleen Topolsky born (Crashdown Timeline)
1967 - Agent DelBianco killed in Union City, TN
9/23/1968 - Skins are begin to peel (Whitaker Diary)
3/23/1970 - Nicolas orders skins to "clean up" their personal data to fit in better with humans (Whitaker Diary)
1970 - Sheila Hubble dies (murdered?)
1972 – Silo Murder occurs involving Hubble and Sheriff Valenti Senior (UFO Convention)
9/13/1973 – Kathleen Ann Topolsky, future FBI agent, born in Hartford, Connecticut
1975 – Allister Topolsky born
1977 – Phillip and Diane Evans marry (Crashdown Timeline)
5/14/1978 - Nicolas plans the Harvest (Whitaker Diary)
1979 – Agent McMahon, head of FBI Special Unit, killed (Silverhandprint)
1979 – Jeffery and Nancy Parker marry (Crashdown Timeline)
10/15 or 25/1982 – Isabel’s birthday (Surprise)
1983 – Michael’s birthday?
3/15/1983 – Max’s birthday (Blood Bothers)
3 or 5/7/1983 – Tess’s birthday (I see a 5, others see 3?)(Tess, Lies and Videotapes)
1983 – Kyle, Maria, Ales & Liz born (Crashdown Timeline)
10/11/1984 - Nicolas tells Whitaker to be a senator (Whitaker Diary)
1984 – Jeff Parker opens up the Crashdown Café (Crashdown Timeline) [What happens to Parker’s – the predecessor to the Crashdown? – Z]
1985 – Pohlman Ranch Excavation (Silverhandprint)
1987 – Liz wears the “Cupcake Dress” to school in kindergarten (Crashdown Timeline) [Would make Liz an awfully YOUNG kindergartener – maybe they start early in NM?? - Z]
1989 - Pod Squad come out of the cave (look like 6-year-olds)
1989 – Max heals pigeon in the park (Toy House)
1989 – Kyle’s mom, Jim Valenti’s wife leaves (Wipeout)
1990 – Maria’s Dad leaves (Sexual Healing)
1991 – Max sees Liz for first time in 3rd grade (Crashdown Timeline) [Again, this would be off based on their timeline – Liz would be in 4th grade. I think Liz started K in 1988, and Max saw her for the first time the following year – 1989 - in 1st grade after he gets off the bus, BUT they did not officially get to Know each other until 3rd grade – Z]
1991 – UFO Museum founded (Crashdown Timeline)
1991 - 92? - Liz and Max "meet" in the 3rd grade for the first time (but may have been in the same school before this, just didn't meet.)
1992 - Max and Isabel "find" Michael again
1992 – Alex meets Liz in 4th grade, but they do not become close friends until the 5th grade (Crashdown Timeline)
1993 – Brody abducted by aliens
Fall 1993 – Topolsky graduates from U. of Hartford, w/ BA in Psychology
11/1993 – Topolsky’s brother Allister dies of Hodgkin’s Disease
1993 or 1994 – Laurie Dupree’s Grandfather (Michael’s DNA Donor) dies
5/29/1994 - Vanessa Crawford marries John Whitaker, Congressman from New Mexico (Whitaker Diary)
5/16/1996 - John Whitaker dies in "tragic" plane crash (Whitaker Diary)
1997 – Brody buys an alien beeper
1997 – Topolsky graduates from U. of Michigan with PhD in Psychology
11/15/1997 – Date on Laurie Dupree’s Psychiatric Hospital Bag (We Are Family)
1999 - Agent Daniel Sommers, head of FBI Special Unit, killed
5/5/1999 – Whitaker writes about dating Pierce (Whitaker Diary)
9/17/1999 – At 3:52 pm Liz Parker is shot, and Max Evans saves Liz - and Roswell is Born!! (Sheriff’s Report – Silverhandprint)
9/27/1999 – The Morning After
9/27/1999 – Topolsky e-mails Stephens re: arrival in Roswell (Silverhandprint)
9/28/1999 – Topolsky has first day at West Roswell High (Silverhandprint)
9/30/1999 – Topolsky e-mails Stephens re: confiscated Sheriff’s files & Michael Guerin (Silverhandprint)
Fall 1999 – Max and Liz are both 16-year-olds (Silverhandprint)
10/14/1999 – Topolsky e-mails Suzanne Duff – obviously close friends (Silverhandprint)
10/14/1999 – Topolsky e-mails Stephens re: Future Week [think Profiles] (Silverhandprint)
10/19/1999 – Leaving Normal – Grandma Claudia visits
10/27/1999 – Topolsky e-mails Stephens re: Alex [Even Topolsky notices the “intense” connection between Max and Liz] (Silverhandprint)
10/28/1999 – Liz’s Journal is found (Missing)
10/28/1999 – Liz and Max search Kyle’s for the Journal, & Topolsky recognizes Michael’s artwork as Atherton’s geodesic dome (Silverhandprint)
11/4/1999 – 285 South Begins (Profiles - Silverhandprint)
11/5/1999 – Scooby Gang drives back from Atherton’s (Profiles - Silverhandprint)
11/6/1999 – Topolsky orders a Casio Magic Wand (Silverhandprint)
11/9/1999 – Topolsky following pod squad to Atherton’s [Date not consistent with Profiles] (Silverhandprint)
11/11/1999 – Topolsky describes the incident at Atherton’s (Silverhandprint)
11/18/1999 – Max in car accident [think Blood Brothers] (Silverhandprint)
11/19/1999 – Topolsky’s final report (Silverhandprint)
12/2/1999 – Heatwave hits Roswell!
12/3/1999 – Liz and Alex wind up in jail after party (Heatwave)
12/4/1999 – Max & Liz share their first kiss (Heatwave)
1/2000 – Frazier Woods SIghting
2/14/2000 – Liz goes on her Blind Date with Doug Shellow
2/2000 – Beeping in the desert (SH)
2/21(?)/2000 – Orb found by Max and Liz (SH)
4/8/2000 – FBI Agent Daniel Pierce checks out item 87 kl stone form Special Unit vault (Silverhandprint)
4/8/2000 – Kathleen Topolsky checks out Orb Communicator from FBI Evidence Vault (Silverhandprint)
4/14/2000 – Fire brakes out at Bethesda Psychiatric Institute in Bethesda, Maryland, and Topolsky is listed as among the six patients killed (Silverhandprint)
4/18/2000 - Daniel Pierce leaves for Roswell (Whitaker Diary)
5/5/2000 – Rare alignment of Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Earth’s Moon and the Sun (4everyoung)
5/14/2000, 4:33 pm – Pod Squad set off the communicators – sending a pulse detected by other aliens
7/2000 – Grant steals rifle from hunter in New Castle, Wyoming (Disturbing Behavior)
8/2000 – Grant steals oxygen tanks from hospice in Fort Collins, CO (Disturbing Behavior)
9/2000 – Grant steals plastic head box from industrial supply in Las Cruses, NM (DB)
Fall 2000 – Scooby Gang begins 11th grade (Monsters) or 12th grade based on comments in Season 2
9/25/2000 – Congressional hearing closes down FBI Special Unit (S&B)
9/29/2000 - Whitaker decides to set up her Roswell office, Pierce doesn't return her calls (Whitaker Diary)
10/6/2000 - Whitaker's office is set up, and has employed Liz Parker. Nicolas reports deserters from Copper Summit. (Whitaker Diary)
10/7/2000 - Whitaker reports Pierce is "the shapeshifter," and that since he went to Max Evans, Evans must be one of the hybrids. Also wonders if Iz is really Vilandra: It is possible the Queen could have reversed Vilandra's and the Bride's roles to throw them off track. Realizes Liz's importance to the hybrids and tapes her calls. Killed Harding, the shapeshifter. (Whitaker Diary)
10/15 or 25/2000 – Isabel celebrates her 18th birthday
10/25 or 11/25 – Whitaker was supposed to report to Skins, but doesn’t (Harvest) [The dates in Surprise, TEOTW & Harvest are ALL screwed up – someone should e-mail a copy of this timeline to the writers! Z]
10/27(?) or 11/3/2000 – Future Max visits, causing Liz to fake sleeping with Kyle, pushing Max to accept Tess (thus, changing forever the course of history)
11/6/2001 – Special Agent Ragsdale writes Congressman White re: FBI Special Unit (Silverhandprint)
11/23/2000 – Max goes to the Summit; calls Iz with details of offer
Fall 2000 – Harvest of Skins due or they will die (Harvest)
12/7/2000 – Grant’s ?? birthday (Surprise)
12/23/2000 – Max heals kids in Hospital (ARCC)
12/24/2000 – Max attends Midnight Services, expressing his Belief in Liz (ARCC)
1/2001 – The Hybrid Chronicles Begin!
2014 – Minutes before the destruction of Earth, Future Liz Convinces Future Max to go back in time and convince Liz to deceive Max into “falling out of love with her” – thus, changing the future (TEOTW)

In Summary

I know I have NOT covered everything (there’re an amazing number of clues to be found!), but that would be impossible and I’d never do all the wonderful theories justice! There is lots of speculation about other characters revolving around Liz, and why they are important to the discussion. Some have wondered why Max and Agent Stevens had the same address – just an inside joke or more? The Ava drawings also seem to tie Liz in just by including her, but …? Tangents are welcome on this Thread as long as they ultimately lead back to Liz! I'm trying to “sum” up the core issues here - Liz's importance and connection to the podsquad – Max in particular! I hope others will help fill in some of the gaps, but this is my attempt to continue the wonderful input, and make this thread accessible. I’m also hoping the clues that we have found are up-lifting to the Dreamers out there that just lurk! Lots to think about!! So – theorize away!!! All theories on "Liz’s Importance to the Alien Mythology" are welcome.

OH, BTW (I always have to add this – if anyone from THE WB reads this), WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LIZ/MAX CONNECTION IS CRITICAL TO THE SHOW, AND THAT TOGETHER MAX AND LIZ MAKE AN INCREDIBLE FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!!

A couple of general “rules” – NO SPOILERS[b/] (even asides about spoilers are not allowed), but anything “aired” is subject to discussion, including coming attractions and things on the Silverhandprint site. Pictures are welcome, as is deleted dialog from posted scripts of shows that have been aired and commentary by writers/producers.

Zero
I Shall (and always will) Believe!!

First off, thank you Zero - as always, FABULOUS job on keeping all informed on the brilliant thoughts of my fellow RBI!

Second, did someone say that Rob Roy was a virgin drink? I might be wrong, but I don't think it is. I know Shirley Temples are, but Rob Roys are made with scotch, aren't they?

Third, this is completely OFF the subject, but I was wondering what people think about Roswell being picked up by another network if the WB drops it for Season 3. I don't typically following Sci-Fi shows and I don't think I've EVER watched the Sci-Fi channel, so I have no idea the probability of the Sci-fi channel picking it up. Anyone else?

Okay, although this line hit me when it was said, I just remembered how we were discussing Tess being separate from the group(this is from memory, so excuse me if the words are not exact):.
MAX: You were right. I do act like a robot sometimes.
MICHAEL: I said too much.
MAX: I just feel so responsible for you, and Isabel and…even Tess.

He had some hesitation in his voice on those last two words. I think we can all agree that he would NOT have hesitated when discussing Liz!

StephStephSteph—I’m from Boston too!!! where do you live?

moonmaiden—I loved L&C! That soul mate ep was one of their best and I immediately thought of it when watching Roswell.

Thanks for starting this one ZERO!

Let the mything begin!

I still think that Liz is somehow the key to the Granolith. I thought it was Alex at first but <oops! no spoilers> Well, now I know for certain that it isn't! So it has to be Liz. She hasn't seen the Granolith.

This brings me back to my Catfighting theory. Since Liz hasn't seen it, then they don't know how it will react. If she goes in and it reacts, maybe it will react even stronger if she connects with Tess, or Isabel, Michael, or YES YES YES Max!

Kyrie

Guess what, I found a Venus connection on VLV. How many of you know what form of transportation Venus used? Answer, she drove a chariot that was drawn by two swans. Look at at the pic below and tell me what you think. Are the writers still going with the Venus connection, or do the swans just make a nice decoration?

Evid

Yeah, I agree with that. Do you think that the writers put that in there purposefully? I just don't think that they go as in depth as I would like them to!

Kyrie

Second, did someone say that Rob Roy was a virgin drink? I might be wrong, but I don't think it is. I know Shirley Temples are, but Rob Roys are made with scotch, aren't they?

StephStephSteph: I posted that Shirley Temple was the only Virgin drink, and yes you are right Rob Roy's are made with scotch, hence the name, he was Scottish. However their is also a nonalcoholic Rob Roy that replaces the scotch with coke. Hey, I once dated a bartender, if anyone was wondering. I guess Max is on the fence on this one.

Zero & Nemo: Glad your both safe, I hope you didn't have any damage to your homes and your loved onces are all ok.

Evid

Evid nice catch with the swans--I did notice that Liz and Max formed the V with the hand holding like they did in Sexual Healing.

quote:Originally posted by Evid:
StephStephSteph: I posted that Shirley Temple was the only Virgin drink, and yes you are right Rob Roy's are made with scotch, hence the name, he was Scottish. However their is also a nonalcoholic Rob Roy that replaces the scotch with coke. Hey, I once dated a bartender, if anyone was wondering. I guess Max is on the fence on this one.

Yep, found it back on Thread #32. It was moon maiden who wrote: quote:Great catches on the Shirley Temple and Rob Roy being virgin drinks!!! Liz and Max were both uncomfortable in Vegas because they have higher moral standards. I think another reference to Liz being pure of heart was when she couldn't lie to the security guard about her age.

I just couldn't remember.

Also, very interesting about the swans and the stage coach. Do we think maybe Liz's necklace could be a stage coach!?!?!

Alexis: I'm from West Roxbury actually. Just on the border of Boston and Dedham. Love to see fellow Bostonians being as obsessed as I am!

Evid nice catch with the swans--I did notice that Liz and Max formed the V with the hand holding like they did in Sexual Healing.

I'm glad that all of our WA State friends are OK!

In regards to the swan thing...didn't someone on the last thread mention that Liz's necklace was a chariot...like in beauty and the beast?

Or something like that....

{~}:}

Evid: Great catch on the swans!!! Can you tell what kind of flowers those are in the corner???

Thanks for all the kind thoughts and words about the recent quake! It was scary, and having grown up in So. Cal. and seeing first hand the devastation a quake can cause, we are feeling very lucky right now! As my friends keep e-mailing me - they (California) are getting our Rain, and we are getting their quakes!

I'm swamped with work today, but have lots of thoughts on the "virgin" thing! So, will be back later to try and compose my thoughts in a coherent way! Also, great catch Evid on the Swans and (someone) on the Stage Coach necklace. It caught my eye immediately! But I have yet to be able to rewatch the episode. (The quake screwed things up in more ways than one yesterday!) I think it is an odd choice for a necklace unless you are a Mythologist!

See you all later!
Zero
I Shall Believe!

Referring back to the Elvis Chapel discussion. I was recently in Vegas and I believe there is only one official Elvis Chapel, which is actually called the Graceland Wedding Chapel. Apparently, Elvis only conducts the occasional ceremony, mostly renewals of marriage vows.

Zero--I just PMed you. Thanks for asking!

Okay, this is just from WorldPages.com and so is not all-inclusive, but under Las Vegas--Wedding Chapels, there is:
An Elvis Wedding
Elvis All Star Events
Graceland Wedding Chapel
as well as:
Star Trek The Experience

So maybe Wishful Thinking (or whoever?) was right in that "An Elvis Wedding Chapel" might have caused legal complications...but then why not "The"? I'm sure they didn't mean anything by it, but it could at least refer to it being 'like' the place they got married and not "the" place.

It was also me that posted that Liz's necklace is a Disney-type Cinderella stagecoach. I did ask for a custom screencap, and I have it, but... I realized after I got it that I have no idea how or where to upload it! I am going to e-mail it to StarBox b/c she usually does the images gallery (which is missing here, BTW--what happened?). In the meantime, watch the scene where Liz is by herself in the lab and starts singing. She moves the dropper up to the test tube, and as her arm raises you can get a clear shot of the Cinderella stagecoach. It's very distinctive
~Tas

It was also me that posted that Liz's necklace is a Disney-type Cinderella stagecoach. I did ask for a custom screencap, and I have it, but... I realized after I got it that I have no idea how or where to upload it! I am going to e-mail it to StarBox b/c she usually does the images gallery (which is missing here, BTW--what happened?). In the meantime, watch the scene where Liz is by herself in the lab and starts singing. She moves the dropper up to the test tube, and as her arm raises you can get a clear shot of the Cinderella stagecoach. It's very distinctive

Zero thanks for the new thread, esp. in the midst of your Pac. NW chaos!
~Tas

Thanks for all the replies about my swan catch. I know if we asked JK about the conection to Venus he would laugh in are face. However I could just see him later on speaking to his crew with a big smile on his face telling them, "good job they are taking the bait and running with it, they even caught the we got to get rid of her line." No way will he ever give anything away.

Tasyfa: So you dated a bartender also? Haven't most of us, hey free drinks in college was hard to pass up right, plus it didn't hurt that mine was a Jason Behr look alike but with a Michael edge to him.

shapeshifter: Now you put an interesting thought in my head. Just what was Max going to use for protection, if not a condom and how did he know how to use his powers to do it??? Are they just born with this knowledge? Do they have a Sex Ed class in middle school on Antar? I can just hear the teacher now, "Ok boys, this has to be done with great care, to much power will cause you to talk or look like your sister."

Evid

Mandatory Liz/Myth content: (thinking of good fortune) Did anyone mention the horseshoe on the wall with four sets of keys on it? (I don't remember which scene.) I imagine it symbolically echoes Michael's statement that the four of them sticking together is the key to their well-being.

Zero--I just PMed you. Thanks for asking!

[/B]

I had to pipe in here...I lived in Boston for about 5 years. Right in the heart of the Back Bay, baby! Loved it!!

{~}:}

Nemo--so glad to hear no injuries reported but I guess a traumatic experience just the same!!! Yes I remember seeing the horseshoe with the keys on it too. Your interpretation could be right too, but I still hold out that something is not right about Tess LOL!!!

Liz with stagecoach necklace from Viva Las Vegas:

Importance of the repeated "V" pattern and hand-holding:

Here is a great drawing of a diamond (the shape of the granolith) that Metaphysical posted - notice the repeated "V"'s within the shape?

The granolith itself (is Liz it's "keeper"???)

Liz as Venus:

Liz and Max as twin souls - notice how they come together to form the
"swirl" on the orb activated during Sexual Healing. Also - notice the
"Emergency" sign behind them - when they come to gether it reads "MERGE".
The animation is from the alternate ending to Leaving Normal is currently beingmoved but will be back up again soon :-)
ending of Leaving Normal - here you can see a variation of the orb swirl as
well.

[IMG]http://www.geocities.com/redhawksroswell/pics/LNdfend.gif [/IMG]

Liz as the keeper of/key to the granolith:
Picture of the granolith chamber in the crashdown:

Liz with the word "CHANGE" behind her - from Leaving Normal. I think the
theme of Liz's "emergence" is central to Roswell - Think of Future Max's
line that Liz needed to let herself change.

Liz's Hero Journey is closely linked to images of Liz looking into MIRRORS. The mirror seems to symbolize the transformation Liz is undergoing. Another symbol linked to Liz is that of BUTTERFLIES - an obvious symbol of metamorphasis and change.

Sheila Hubble:

Liz as the Virgin Mary/key to Salvation (::waving to Evid:

The dragon on Liz's window:

Liz as the Trojan Horse (she was avoiding Maria in the Pilot and ate lunch
with Pam TROY). Horses have shown up alot in pictures, etc but here is the
horse that ran in front of Max's jeep in Blood Brothers:

The "destiny" book with the name "LIZ" backwards next to what looks like the
granolith sideways:

Liz and the cave "map" - note the granolith-like symbols near her neck and
towards the top.

Liz and the Childhoods End book:

Liz is also often shown with SUNFLOWERS or SUNS - a symbol that links her to Max - who is closely associated with the SUN. Here she is with her latest sunflowers - little sunflower lights. Also notice the "V" pattern on her blanket.

Okay Zero - here you go - the cross and the sugar cubes:

Images thanks to crashdown, shapeshifter, redhawk and a HUGE thanks to
www.theddd.com who are kind enough to
supply custom screencaps for our gallery.
THANKS!!!

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

Also - a FYI - if anyone wants access to the custom screencaps (including Nemo's music stands) they are online at www.photopoint.com
Put in LizMythologist@aol.com as the email and 30959 as the password - they are all in an album called "mythology".

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

Metaphysicalgrl GraceKel and StephStephSteph—I’ve lived in Boston for almost 4 years now. My first year here I lived in the South End, Dorchester, Newton, Saugus, Cambridge, Somerville and Providence R.I. But I settled in Somerville.

Perhaps there are several Elvis chapels in this complex, as in:

A Elvis Chapel
B Elvis Chapel
C Elvis Chapel
.
.
.

While this show is not too bad about grammar, I did cringe in ARCC during the gift-giving when Maria asked Michael "Are one of those for me?" Grrrrr...

Especially since Maria used the word “Guffaw” in The Convention! I think bad grammar can show some character, and some background into that character. I wouldn’t expect Michael to used perfect English, but they should be consistent. Of course Maria’s grammar faux pas is minor considering her character is in high school.

Did anyone have any thoughts on my comment before about the swans and the stage coach and Venus (per Evid??)?? I REALLY think we're on to something with that, but of course, sometimes I'm in my own world

I really think your on to something with the idea that something happened when Max told Liz about their Future. Here is what Max said on TEOTW.

FUTURE MAX: I can't tell you too much, Liz...only what you need to know...but 14 years from now, we are taken over by our enemies.

FUTURE MAX: Nothing. It's just...seeing you at 17 again is making it all come flooding back to me. How my stomach used to rumble every time I saw you.

LIZ: So, um...did we get married?

FUTURE MAX: Liz, you know I can't...

LIZ: You...I know, you can't talk about it. I'm sorry. I know.

However FMax did talk about it, he was being lead by his feeling for Liz, and this lead him to tell her more then he should have.

With this information Liz can't stop replaying these events in her head and is sending these images to Max. Liz is trying to convince her self not to tell Max, and is thinking of the results if she did, by doing this she is relooping time and causing Michael to have those Nightmares. What do you think RBI's?

Evid

With this information Liz can't stop replaying these events in her head and is sending these images to Max. Liz is trying to convince her self not to tell Max, and is thinking of the results if she did, by doing this she is relooping time and causing Michael to have those Nightmares. What do you think RBI's?

VERY interesting! I think you'r edefinitely on to something. JK wrote in an interview I read on Crashdown.com that Max finds out this season that Liz didn't REALLY sleep with Kyle, but he doesn't elude as to HOW he finds out!

Maybe it's through this whole time-loop thing where Liz is creating these visions in her mind and projecting them (unconsciously)into Max's mind, then Max gets confused and starts to talk to Liz about WHY he's seeing these things all of a sudden and "how real they feel" and Liz HAS to come out and tell him about FM and the whole End of the World thing! What do you think!?!?

Definately something in the water! I'm a New England Bear myself! I was born in Worcester, MA but lived most of my life in Providence, RI. My sister goes to BU and she loves it.

I am going to try and post the alien tracking device with all of the alien symbols again:

BTW, on the cherish thread the intro. is about holding hands. Here is the link:
http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/005724.html#3

to all the RBI's! I usually lurk here, but this made me think of a recent conversation I had with a friend of mine when I mentioned that Roswell might not get picked up by the WB for a third season. He had mentioned the possibility of the SciFi channel as they have done that in the past. Right now that would be anyone's guess, we'll just have to wait and see what the WB decides. Just thought it was interesting that someone else thought of the possibility...

These theories are very interesting, indeed!!

I felt, throughout the VLV episode, things that caused me to believe that Michael could have been informed of things - perhaps by a future version of Max, maybe?? Could there be a few time dimensions going on??

How I came to this conclusion happened in the scene where Max asked Liz to dance. There was a shot of Michael who seemed to "approve" or seemed proud of himself that Max came back, but also because he was asking Liz to dance. After the whole episode of Michael snubbing Liz off, saying she was "exhausting", this seemed off to me.

Looking back through the episode, why would Michael be reading a book of Vegas in front of Kyle?? Of course, if Maria found out, she would be asking Liz to come along. Maybe this whole trip was just to be with Max, but if the others found out . . . how could it hurt??

The nightmare could very well be because he felt if things don't change (yet once again), that they would end up that way again. The details in his nightmare was very reminiscent to the version FM told Liz.

He told Max that he was a "robot" when he healed him. We all know that wasn't the case with Liz - he had feelings (love) for her. How about the kids at Christmas - he cared enough to heal them. Max is becoming emotionless because of his "bleeding heart".

Michael's speech at the end - "as long as we stick together, we're going to make it". . . hmmmmmmm . . . was he comforting Max after his apology or could it mean more?? How did he come to this conclusion??

What do you guys think??

HA! I lived in Worcester for 12 years of my life (age 11 - 23)

You guys are so smart!

I'm assuming you mean this statement in connection with FM's "T left and the group was weaker" (sorry, I'm roughing it here - that's not exact) statement?? Could it be that somehow Liz is ALSO projecting onto Michael? Maybe this is some power she has been "changed" with?

I know someone diregarded Liz and Michael being connected in any way (sorry, can't remember who said that), but maybe it's a slowly evolving thing? Like Ava said, "the change has begun" (or again, something like that)?

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

hey Liz Mythers. I haven't been here in a while but i was rewatching End of the World last night and they keep showing a pic of a mountain that is granolith-shaped in Liz's bedroom, which follows with the theory that Liz and her fam are protectors of it or something.

Here's a picture of it:

pic from http://theddd.com

did anyone else notice this?

Too funny! I'm actually from NY but went to college in Boston and stayed for awhile. I really love New England and still go up there often....RI, VT, MA, ME, NH...it's such a beautiful part of the country.

Smiles...
{~}:}

Oh, MOST definitely! Roswell would be meat & potatoes for The Sci-Fi Channel: sci-fi and relationships. Look at Farscape, for example.

They will also (probably) have a hole in their schedule about the size of "The Secret Adventures of Jules Verne". Imagine a cross between Wild,Wild,Wild West and The Avengers, with the worst of both shows. Give them a big computer graphics budget, and no feel for the 19th Century, or that style of scientification, and you get the idea.

A recent episode had them meet a boy, selling newspapers on the train. He's almost deaf. He prints the paper on the train, himself. He also has a workshop in the baggage car, where he does experiments and invents things. Eventually he blows it up. Who doesn't know that the kid's name turns out to be Thomas Alva Edison? <rant mode OFF>

Having Roswell on the Sci-Fi Channel been mentioned on the Chads thread too. We should prepare to bombard USA Networks (TSFC's parent?) with pro-Roswell messages. And I think we could scare up a few non-union writers, and continuity people, a science shepherd, etc. in case there's a strike. Hi, Qfanny!

OBTW: I'm a David Brudnoy fan. WBZ-1030 has a button on my radio.

I think that Liz has more to do with Max's past then Larek, or anyone has led us on. I keep thinking about how Larek looked at Liz, as if he knew her or something. And then in heatwave, when Liz saw Max's home planet. I think that Max and Liz are connected in far more ways than just the healing. I think Zan's marriage was arranged with Ava and that he had someone else in mind.

Well?

Gwen

Alexis: Your right about Michael and Liz not having a connection, YET. That's why I mentioned the time-loop. I think Liz is showing Max images but Michael is being affected by the time-loop. If the writers do go in this direction Iz might begin having nightmares also. Michael was already upset about the shooting so this might have caused him to be effected first.
What I find interesting about Michael is he treats people closest to his heart with contempt. Maria, Max, Liz and even Iz at times. This makes me think he does have deep feeling for Liz, he goes out of his way to confront her and always in front of Max. Does Michael do this to see if Max will defend her, is he testing Max? As if asking, are you worthy of her love Max? So far Max has failed this season.
I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that Liz and Michael are siblings, if only in essence.

Evid

quote:Originally posted by shapeshifter:
But Liz's coach looks very familiar.
I'm thinking that it's a souvenir from that western-themed tourist trap they were at: Copper Summit.

Just checking in! I have a lot to saw, but am swamped. I hope to get on last night but was up until midnight writing a letter for work - what a drag! (Okay - I did have the TV distracting me in the background.)

I've been taking notes on what everyone has been chatting about - so will be back to comment later.

I do want to welcome the lurker/newbies! You are always welcome!

As far as the coach necklace is concerned - Yes Grace Kel - there was a Stagecoach in the "old west museum" in Harvest. Connection ???? But, the one Liz is wearing does remind me of Cinderella's coach (pumpkin) which involved magic and "transformations" - like shapeshifting! Also, I usually think of royalty - like British royalty - when I think of coaches like that. Ummmm....??? It is just a strange choice for a teenage girl to wear as a necklace - it has to mean something!!

And Christmas Nazi - I think you will find if you hang around lone enough, most of us believe there is much more to Liz's connection to Max's past than is let on - and your thoughts are one of the definite possibilities!

Till I have more time!
Zero
I Shall Believe!

Alexis: Your right about Michael and Liz not having a connection, YET. That's why I mentioned the time-loop. I think Liz is showing Max images but Michael is being affected by the time-loop. If the writers do go in this direction Iz might begin having nightmares also. Michael was already upset about the shooting so this might have caused him to be effected first.
What I find interesting about Michael is he treats people closest to his heart with contempt. Maria, Max, Liz and even Iz at times. This makes me think he does have deep feeling for Liz, he goes out of his way to confront her and always in front of Max. Does Michael do this to see if Max will defend her, is he testing Max? As if asking, are you worthy of her love Max? So far Max has failed this season.
I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that Liz and Michael are siblings, if only in essence.
Evid

Yes, please join our Boston-Liz Myther club!

After reading some of these theories I am starting to waiver in my feeling of no connection. It is true Michael seems annoyed with her, but I am sure he respects her deep down. Deep, deep down. He did seem happy not only when Max stayed, but when he asked Liz to dance.

Delurking for a bit...on the subject of Liz's necklace,the thought occured to me that it probably does mean something because she so rarely wears jewelry,other than her watch and an occasional ring. If she does wear necklaces it seems to me that I remember them not being real large pieces of any significance. So I thing the Princess/Coach theory is interesting.
Ok, I am done babbling now, going back into lurker-mode.

~Tigereyes

Did you guys notice the new pic at the Crashdown? It shows the royal 5 ( )
in a familiar formation.

Max....Tess...Michael
.........................Isabel
.....Liz

Max, Tess and Liz are in the V formation with Liz at the base.

I don't suppose Michael and Isabel on the side makes the formation look like any of the other symbols from Tess's book or Brody's alien device?

try again

These theories are very interesting, indeed!!

We never mind! Delurk more! All of you newbies!

quote:How I came to this conclusion happened in the scene where Max asked Liz to dance. There was a shot of Michael who seemed to "approve" or seemed proud of himself that Max came back, but also because he was asking Liz to dance. After the whole episode of Michael snubbing Liz off, saying she was "exhausting", this seemed off to me.

He told Max that he was a "robot" when he healed him. We all know that wasn't the case with Liz - he had feelings (love) for her. How about the kids at Christmas - he cared enough to heal them. Max is becoming emotionless because of his "bleeding heart".

Michael's speech at the end - "as long as we stick together, we're going to make it". . . hmmmmmmm . . . was he comforting Max after his apology or could it mean more?? How did he come to this conclusion??

What do you guys think??

tp--This is one of my favorite ideas. Liz & Michael being related. And that subconciously he knows more then he realizes. I think that all of them know more subconciously then they think they do.

But the whole sudden Michael turn around struck me as wierd as well. Something was up with it. But I don't know what to make of it yet.

That's what I said originally--it IS Cinderella's coach. I would recognize it anywhere

StarBox Thank you for bailing me out and posting this screencap I appreciate it
~Tas

I this idea, Evid! In Missing, Michael is very pleased when Max says that Liz said a "good friend" returned her journal. But nothing was ever specifically said between Michael and Liz, just in a round-about manner through other people. I don't think that Michael's feelings towards Liz have changed since then. I think he thinks that Liz is good for Max--esp. since Michael has blown off the Destiny idea that he belongs with Isabel. I mean, right now he and Maria are pretty firmly reestablished as a couple. So, if Michael is having time-loop flashes that are prompting him to test Max's worthiness of Liz, then what is it that he knows? That it's Liz's developing powers that will turn the tide of the war? That Max is doomed to failure as a leader without Liz's calming influence? I'm just throwing ideas out here--albeit rather positive ones I know that the way he looked approvingly at Max asking Liz to dance is significant (and he didn't even know it was a wordless request ), but I'm not sure what it means yet. I guess we'll have lots of time for speculation in the next 6 weeks

Grace Kel While I am 100% positive that Liz's necklace is actually the Cinderella coach, I do believe that it is connected to the stagecoach in Harvest. The basement of the barn of the stagecoach museum is where the husks were stored/grown; the curator of the museum was the first Skin they talked to in Copper Summit, and he was the one who told Grier they were coming, and mentioned the Harvest; also, in the stagecoach in the museum was a mannequin like the one that they used as CW's body. So--connections/meanings? Well, Liz was the one that discovered that CW's body was a mannequin, so maybe it means that she will discover something else important about the Skins. Anyone else have ideas?

My overly optimistic, personal favourite interpretation of the Cinderella coach necklace: Liz and Max aren't Romeo and Juliet anymore; now they're Cinderella and Prince Charming--complete with happy ending!! Well, at least Maria does call Max Prince Charming in Crazy (and calls Michael Quasimodo, but that's a different story )

As for Michael's dream, I had a totally irreverant & undoubtedly irrelevant thought: what if the demon he's afraid of is committment to Maria?
~Tas

But maybe Shiri too shares your "favourite interpretation of the Cinderella coach necklace: Liz and Max aren't Romeo and Juliet anymore; now they're Cinderella and Prince Charming--complete with happy ending!!"

Going to check it out!
bye

-->>> She get's yelled at

Anyway, Tasyfa, here's the ***real*** version (don't you think Michael makes a good coachman?):

I'm new to this thread, although I've been visiting the Roswell message board for quite some time. I'm not sure why I haven't come to this thread before but let me tell you BOY! was I glad I finally did! You have warmed this Dreamers ! I needed to hear all the reasons why Liz is important to Roswell and especially to Max!

I've haven't absorbed everything just yet, but I had a thought when I saw this picture again...

Okay here goes:

Elvis is referred to as "the King." Now Max is supposed to be the king and leader of his race, but before he was king he would've had to have been a prince. Now maybe Liz and Max have to be married by royalty or at least have their union blessed or witnessed by royalty! Hence they would have elope to Vegas to have Elvis - "The King" - say "Congratulations Kids!"

I'm just a beginner at this, but what do you think???

Quote by Tas –
quote:Actually, a "Rob Roy" is a boy's version of a Shirley Temple--it is almost exactly the same drink (more grenadine I think so it's redder), and it is also non-alcoholic. I've been thinking for a long time that it isn't only Liz's virginity that's important, but also Max's. The drinks could point to that too. As well as M&L being the straight-laced people and having the non-alcoholic drink names, of course!
Sorry, I can't recall who analyzed Michael's dream, but good job! I see you noticed the repetition of "We need a plan" also. I think that's significant, esp. since it's something that Liz usually says as well as Max.

Tas – these are excellent catches, and I wanted to discuss them a bit further. I see a link with the use of the “V” symbol – a significant symbol in Season 1 in connection to Max and Liz – the connection with Venus (which we all have discussed at length – and as so well pointed out by, I think, Evid, symbols of which show up again in VLV with the swans) and the Virginity of Liz and Max. Without getting into the moralistic issues – though I believe that the show has some responsibility here given the audience – I see their virginity as a major issue in the storyline. Obviously, in TEOTW the lost of that virginity prematurely had drastic consequences – and after listening to Liz’s protestation to FMax – she too puts a high value on her virginity. Another indication of its importance is the fact that the deception of Liz losing her virginity to Kyle was the only way Liz could turn Max away from her. Nothing else was strong enough to make that impact on Max, and remember his reaction when he confronts Liz. So, by once again bringing in the “virgin” card – even if it is only use RBI people who catch it – means that this continues to be an important issue. I remember when Tess showed up last Season, and it looked like Max and Tess were going to get together. I said at the time that I would STOP watching the show if that happened – Max losing his "V" card to Tess. And I still believe that! (to Tess or anyone but Liz!) I believe that the writers have put the importance of this topic out there for us to find, and I will feel VERY let down if they go the route of so many other shows go – what I call the “90210” route. The one thing that makes this show most special - and worth time obsessing over - is that connection between Max and Liz, regardless of what occurred in their Alien past. If the writers decide to throw Max with Tess or Liz with Sean in a sexual way, it will ruin the show for me (and I’m sure many out there) – especially, since we know the sacrifice that Liz has already made from TEOTW on. I feel that the continuing hints at the importance of Max and Liz’s virginity are deliberate – and I’m hoping that the writers don’t let us down.

Quote from Alexis –
quote:“Berkie posted these quotes from Lois and Clark: The Adventures of Superman on the dreamer thread and I think this is the case with Max and Liz. It works with some of the theories on this thread:
"Wherever his was, there was yours, never one without the other. Two lovers, destined to meet and fall in love over and over again throughout time!"

I love this thought for Max and Liz, to think that no matter where, no matter what, they're meant to be. I've often said that Max and Clark Kent are very much alike and when Clark points out that he doesn't understand how he and Lois always end up together b/c he isn't even from Earth, it's explained like this:
"Your soul... it comes from a place beyond planets, beyond time, where we... where we *all* come from. And the power of your love is what brings your souls together, time after time. You see, that is the one absolute. Wherever she is, you are."
& ...Soulmates”

I love this Alexis! I never watched that show, but this is so great, and it plays totally into the entire soulmate/life bond discussion! Also, again – it goes to the specialness of the Max/Liz connection!

Evid – you have also brought up the re-looping of time – Liz replaying it all in her head and sending those images to Max and Mikey G. I find this a fascinating thought, especially given that we do not know what the extent of Liz’s powers are, and remember in Wipeout how Max got images that appeared to be sent by Liz – she must have some powers of projection. I also find the thought that Liz could be projecting thoughts that are being incorporated into Mikey G’s dreams interesting. Ummmm…..!

Also – I have always felt that there was a connection between Liz and Mikey G since she first went to warn him about Topolsky and was cemented (I use that term loosely!) when Mikey G read Liz’s journal in Missing! But it is a connection of respect and understanding – something that goes unspoken – not a romantic thing at all.

Nermal – You asked who Liz’s fairy godmother is? I still think it is Tic Tac! Tic Tac – where forth are thou?

Shapeshifter – quote: Um, well, in my family of emotionally dysfuntional misfits Michael's personality morphs would be considered normal. ROTFLMHO!! Love the Cinderella coach picture – too cute!

About the Cinderella analogy – Not only is the transformations that go on, Prince Charming is forced to “search” for Cinderella, using a glass slipper his only clue. Max is still searching – and in my happy ending – finds the truth, discovering Liz – his true destiny!

Adrien – Welcome – and I love the thought about the “king” – Elvis – blessing M&L’s union.

Today I received an e-mail with a long list of “I Believe” thoughts, and one caught my eye as belonging here:

I believe-
that heroes are the people
who do what has to be done
when it needs to be done,
regardless of the consequences.

Sound Like Liz??

Zero
I Shall (Always) Believe!

(Uh,writing in English so difficult for me, our language has so different gram. and even principes.
In English "you" mean friend and it mean stranger too - we have two words "sina" for frends,"teie" for stranger or respected persons or plural.This is hint to our nature).What I want say: please correct me
if thing/writing so horrible - don't be shay!

Also-
I like the idea of Max and Liz's virginity being important. I noticed in MITC, when Maria and Liz talk at the fountain, it is made obvious that virginity is important to both of them. I was a little surprised that Maria jumped to the immediate conclusion that Liz would sleep with Kyle instead of faking it, but I guess since Liz had told her earlier that she and Kyle did have sex...grrrr...it just bothers me that in MTD Liz specifically said to Maria "I can't tell Max what I didn't do" in reference to something that happened with Kyle. Big flashing neon sign "I DIDN'T DO IT WITH KYLE"! sorry for my rant, I just rewatched those two eps and it's been bugging me. Of course it bugs me that everyone just accepted the fact that Liz Parker would have a one night stand with Kyle, or anyone for that matter. Some friends *sigh* I must stop now or I will be sucked into the evil downward spiral of character non-continuity *shudder*

Val

Ok, so maybe the following doesn't have alot to do with Liz Mythology, but if we don't get a 3rd season we won't have a Liz to talk about anymore. So think about participating in this to let the WB know that we aren't going anywhere even if they pre-empt Roswell for 6 weeks.

I wonder when/if the writers will explain that. It only stood out like a sore thumb.

They should do a poll at the Crashdown where we could vote who's pod was leaking. I vote either Max or Tess.

Resolution is necessary to our state of mind.

nermal, Over on the SciFi of HTOHL thread I posted a screencap that Reggie made of the leaking pods that clearly shows it was a set that was leaking and that all of the individual embryo sacs were intact. This implies that the leaking pods could have been our NM4 and that was why they were (in Lonnie's words) "too human." If we are to assume all but Ava of the NY4 are now dead, this leaves our 'too human' 4 to carry on the agenda with their human insights.

Vihmakass, Great post on the values of energy and emotion to our aliens, and also on the effects of Max healing Liz.

Valkyre, I don't think it would have been very unusual for a girl like Liz to have slipped up with Kyle. When I was in high school I was at the top of my class with a reputation of a goody-goody at the same time that I did lose my virginity. Sadly, I think it happens a lot because goody-goodies can feel so socially insecure. And Liz was dealing with the whole Tess/destiny thing, and I believe she uses the words, "I made a mistake" in reference to her sleeping with Kyle. A lot of posters complain about inconsistancies in characters' personalities on the show, but I just see this as making them more realistic instead of stereotypical good guys and bad guys.

This is a fascinating idea, and it corresponds to a lot of the theories floating around here. So, if Max makes a connection with Liz and rejects his arranged bride Tess once and for all (please God! ), then what are the consequences for Antar? Would that change the makeup of their society, in terms of allowing emotion to resurface? Great ideas; I'll need to think about it some more

Zero ITA with everything you wrote--just say no to rebel sex Seriously, while I tend to explore these issues more in my fanfic, I really think that Max's virginity is critical--or more precisely, when and to whom he gives up his V card is crucial. I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose something. I don't know if anyone else here is a Celtic history/mythology buff, although I do know that we were talking about Arthur before, and Roswell does have some very Arthurian aspects, a couple of which I'm going to touch on here.

The Lady of the Lake, otherwise known as the Lady of Avalon, was a Druidic priestess of the Goddess. These priestesses served a very important role in the community. They were taken into the "convent" (for lack of a better word) in their early teens, as puberty set in. They were then cloistered, and their virginity was carefully preserved. Until it was needed. For certain things, a sacrifice was required, one that involved the shedding of blood. The loss of a woman's virginity was one such sacrifice. The most important ritual in which this occurred was called "The Great Marriage." This is when a high-ranking priestess sacrifices her virginity to the heir to the throne, making him the King and binding him to the land through her blood. It's not always the heir's first time (though it is preferred), but the act does seal his role as the ruler. In effect, it is a ritual that makes the land itself to be the King's bride, so that he always has its best interests at heart.

So, relation to Max and Liz. What if Liz's role is the priestess, and that's why she & FMax's relationship became so tight after they cemented? Because she bound him not only to herself, but to Earth? I mean, space travel issues aside, the war was brought to them on Earth; they didn't go anywhere. And I know that JK & RM have said that it would be a completely different show if they ever left the planet, and they didn't want to do that (subject to change, I know). However, what if by that act Liz and Max formed an unbreakable bond--a lifebond, as we have discussed before? Perhaps that was the choice to create that bond, even if neither truly knew it beforehand.

Thoughts, anyone??
~Tas

ITA, shapeshifter. Especially the way Liz described it when she first lied to Maria (paraphrasing)--"I was upset about Max, and Kyle was there for me, and we were close at one point...one thing just led to another, and we..." It does happen, and I could see it happening to someone like Liz b/c she was really upset, she did care for Kyle, and she probably would also have felt guilty and obligated if they had started seriously fooling around (not a great recipe for a first time, but like I said, it happens). Mmm-and when Liz said, "I made a mistake," that was to Max in Harvest. I actually think that that may be why he was evntually able to start trusting her again, b/c while he still believes that she did it, he knows that she thinks it was a mistake, and he knows that people do make mistakes--sometimes ones that really hurt other people.

As for the characters, one of the things that I love the most about Roswell is that the characters are SO three-dimensional (with the exception until recently of Tess), and their strengths and their flaws are all demonstrated. Take Michael, for instance. As shapeshifter posted, his mercurial nature is actually pretty typical. I dated a guy in high school who was frighteningly similar to Michael in personality (not, alas, in looks, although he did have eyes a lot like Jason's ), and he totally yo-yoed all over the place. If anyone's read "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus," Michael is a textbook example of the rubber band theory He can only get so close, stretching his rubber band of intimacy, then he has to snap back in on himself and hibernate for a while

shapeshifter Re: the coach. It is the rounder one in the movie, too, but I still think that it's supposed to be a representation of Cinderella's coach. I know I'm kind of stuck on that, but it really doesn't make any sense to me otherwise. Especially since it's such an in-your-face piece of jewelry, particularly for Liz who tends to wear the illusion-type necklace. Oh, and speaking of necklaces: the rosary-type beads over the sun mirror in Liz's room are NOT there in LN; they ARE there in Missing, so Missing is when they appeared. In LN, when Liz is talking to GC & Maria, there does seem to be a string of beads hanging from the bottom of the mirror, but they are small beads, not chunky like the rosary-type ones, and they don't obscure the face of the mirror at all, let alone in the V shape that appears in Missing

Man, I'm on a roll this weekend!
~Tas

March 5th-Summer of '47
...
I have uploaded the Summer of 47 archives at http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/index.html

This is only way what I see make Liz attached to Max/Zan past.(if this is necessary)
But how meny is peoples so many is...
sry.gram.

May I join in on the coach discussion?

While I the Cinderella insight, ...

The one she wears looks more like an old-fashioned stage coach to me! So I asked myself, "What function does a stage coach serve?" And I immediately thought of the Wells Fargo Wagon! And the song "Oh the Wells Fargo Wagon is a ... comin' down the street... Oh please let it be for me!" (from the MusicMan) The WFWagon used to deliver mail and packages and stuff. Well, what is usually in mail? - MESSAGES!

Liz has a MESSAGE to carry to Max about Future Max!

Liz also carried a message to present Max about the granilith!

Personally I like to think that Liz sent Max that vision of them having just gotten married and leaving the cab! hmmm... maybe there's some significance to the cab? Another version of Cinderella's coach maybe???

Now I'll share some of my artwork...

Click the thumbnail and it will open in another window! I hope you like it!

NOW DON'T SCREW THIS UP TPTB.

Evid

[/B]

Or maybe Liz is still connected to the orbs, a human communicator? She did reach Max in New York all the way from Roswell.

A whole set of pods leaking? No wonder they don't remember anything about their past lives. Or maybe they lost more than that. The Dupes' powers seemed stronger than the NM royal 4.

When I saw it I thought of the Wells Fargo stagecoach as well. Or else really any western stagecoach. To me, the stagecoach has a meaning of going west, obviously ; leaving the known and going into the unknown, the wild west; taking risks and carring correspondence.

I've been struggling with the whole meaning of the necklace which is why I haven't been posting, still trying to figure it out. But when I read your post, I had to throw in my two cents.

Shapeshifter-- That's very true about Michael's constant mood changes. And the same thing happens in my family. But I still think that something was up with it. And it's not just my little hope that Liz and Michael are related, cause I do hope that. I don't know why, but the whole idea just won't leave me alone.

It's related. With the Druids, it's not a Year-King--the annual "sacrifice" is a priestess However, in times of great need, such as a severe, years-long drought or similar occurrance, the life of the King might be required.

I like the idea of Liz being a human messenger--sorry, I forgot who mentioned that
~Tas

And sharp-eared shapeshifter (no relation to Mr. Spock) heard that the debate team's topic was: "Space Travel: Wave of the future or Misbegotten dream." Wow. How did we miss that gem? GraceKel? Are you out there?

And will someone who has kept up with popular culture please explain the significance of the bouncer saying "and I'm Charro." Who is "Charro?"

And what happened to our Spanish speaking RBIers? I know someone with a screen name starting with "M" translated Max's TEOTW song (as a librarian with a poor memory I remember people as letters of the alphabet under which they would file). So what are they saying in Spanish class?

This is Jason Katims (next to Shiri).

This is Zero (middle row, left end; in the red/white sweater).

The picture is from a party in Bellingham WA in December 2000, arranged by our much-appreciated former moderator, Lisa Bham. She's in the back row, 3rd from the left. In the middle row, 4th from left (in gray) is Leneba; and behind her is her husband, Chris. (Doubtless, members of the RBI will have already noted these deeply significant numbers. But pay no attention to the old man behind Zero; he's Nobody. Although he did say that during his student days at Colorado he got to watch William Sadler play Hamlet in the Shakespeare Festival. Check it out.) http://williamsadler.com/bio6.html

The mood was festive, as you see. A cake was brought from Borracchini's in Seattle, decorated according to a drawing by Leneba. (Photo by Zero, scanned/posted by Lisa Bham.)

Below is a post from a thread that was closed; it includes some of Zero's information on Rob Roy and Braveheart, but from a different slant--also interesting stuff on "Dr. Love" quote:originally posted by Hoku
I've been looking at the fake ID names given to the gang by Dr. Love and here are some interesting things I've found out:
All names are alcoholic drinks except Shirley Temple, Dr. Love and Rob Roy (is a drink and not).
**Tess/Pina Colada has light rum, coconut, pineapple, ice and is mixed in a blender. Emile is from Australia where there is a much blended culture.
**Maria/Margarita Salt has tequila, triple sec, lime, lemon juice, ice and is mixed in a blender and poured into a heavy salted cocktail glass. Majandra is hispanic like the origin of this drink.
**Isabel/Brandy Alexander has brandy, creme de cacao, half/half, ice and is shaken not stirred. Katherine has a very regal and sophisticated aura about her which this drink represents.
**Alex/Tom Collins has gin and lemon juice poured into a Collins glass. Colin Hanks need I say more.
**Kyle/Harvey Wallbanger has vodka and orange juice and is served in a Collins glass. Nick like Colin are just a couple of guys that make you want to pucker up (mmm, lemon and orange so citrisy).
**Liz/Shirley Temple is just plain ginger ale and grenadine (juice of a pomograted seeds) poured into a highball glass. Shiri's character Liz is just too straight lace to be anything but a Shirley Temple. Also the Actress Shirley Temple was a head of her time in the movie industry as a very talented and child star. As Liz is a head of her peers in knowledge. ST's political career is similar to Liz's as ST was a member of the U.S. delegation to the United Nations (1969-1970), was U.S. ambassador to Ghana (1974-1976), and became the first woman in U.S. history to serve as chief of protocol (1976-1977), during the administration of President Gerald R. Ford. She served as ambassador to Czechoslovakia (1989-1992),under President Bush. Liz serves as an ambassdor too, for Earth in a way.
**Rob Roy has scotch and vermouth and is served in a cocktail glass. Rob Roy was also the name of a Scottish hero and a passionate romantic epic movie. "ROB ROY is the true story of Robert Roy MacGregor, a hero of 18th Century Scotland, whose love for one woman gave him honor, courage and, ultimately, his life. The leader and provider for the entire MacGregor clan, his trust in less honorable men makes him a pawn in a ruthless plot that threatens to destroy everything he knows. When honor no longer serves, it is love alone that can save him." The story line seems to jive with Max and his past/current situation.
**Dr. Love is not a drink nor is it a porno film or porno actor. Dr. Love is the name of a Canadian rock band called Dr. Love and the Kissettes which based out of Toronto. Thus the connection to Brendan, our favorite Canadian. There is also a radio talk host by the name of Dr. Love in NYC who helps couples with relationship problems thus the irony of having Michael be named Dr. Love...maybe its a hint he/Maria need couple therapy. Or maybe he is the much needed therapist to bring Max and Liz together.
Now on to the mention of Braveheart in the last part of VLV... I think this ties in perfectly with Max's and his fake ID name Rob Roy. Braveheart is a movie based on the story of Sir William Wallace a Scotish hero of the 13th century who came before Nobel Scotsman Sir Robert Roy Macgregor(16th Century). Note how Wallace came before Roy and it is said that Roy was inspired by Wallace to bring about the uprising against the English in the 16th Century. The spirit of Wallace was legendary and his heroism was told over and over to many generations of surpressed Scots living under English rule. It was the legend of Wallace that kept many Scots believing that someday they would overcome the English tyrants that ruled them. Some people even claimed that Roy was Wallace reincarnated. Thus the Zan and Max connection. The story goes that Wallace took arms against the English because of the love a woman he had lost. The English tyrant had killed Wallace's true love whom he had married in secret. Another connection to Liz/FMax eloping (not a traditional marriage but done is secret). Both Rob Roy and Braveheart tell the story of one man (a nobel) whose people the (Scots) are taken over by their enemy (English). Again, similarities to Zan/Max's own story. As a result both Wallace and Roy must turn to their inner strength and the love of a woman to guide him to reclaim what his people have lost. Here we are watching Max struggle with his own inner strengths and with the help of Liz he will be able to eventually overcome Kivar and reclaim his rightful place on his homeworld or earth. The only grim piece to both stories is that Wallace was caught, tortured, killed, then cut in fours and buried in four parts of the kingdom. Yuck...this is what I hope didn't happen to Zan on his homeworld by Kivar. And Roy was imprisoned, escaped and then died of old age. Which could be a possibility for Max unless Max/Liz change the future.

shapeshifter, I believe that's Charo, and the joke is that she's as opposite from the security guard as can be. Her website bio. describes her as: a singer, dancer, comedienne, actress, and classical guitarist; recognizable for her big blonde hair, tight flamboyant clothes, voluptuous figure, fractured English, enough energy to light up every marquee in Las Vegas....

Like you, I'm still hoping someone will explain what was said in the spanish class....

Teacher: Where is Phillipe?
Class: Phillipe is in the kitchen.

Kyle and Michael talk

Teacher: Why is Phillipe in the kitchen.
Class: Phillipe is cooking eggs.

Kyle and Micheal talk. Teacher catches them. I believe everyone got the "detencion" part (detention)

Teacher: The eggs are good.
Class: the calamonos? (I don't know this word) with salsa.

Make of that what you will. A prize should be given to the person who can figure out a way to work this into the mythology!

RW

...with salsa.

Make of that what you will. A prize should be given to the person who can figure out a way to work this into the mythology!THANK YOU!!
But I don't deserve a prize , it's easy, er, uh, that is, Roswellian translation:
2 orbs over easy with hot sauce

Where is Felipe?

Felipe is in the kitchen.

And what is Felipe doing in the kitchen?

Felipe is eating eggs.

The eggs are good.

We eat them with hot sauce.

remind you of anyone who likes hotsauce?
RW

Nemo – Thanks for clarifying that confusion. Yes, it’s true – that is me (Zero) in the red Christmas sweater, Santa and his reindeer flying across my chest! Obviously, JK and I only have our hair length (and I hope our love of Liz and Max) in common! Nemo is the fellow behind me! So, now you all have a face to put with the (fake) name! I hope none of you past me on the street and shout – “OMG, It’s Zero!”

Shapeshifter – Thank you for posting the post by Hoku – Hoku gave a better connected to the show description of Rob Roy and Braveheart, plus added that wonderful info about Shirley Temple that I’ve been meaning to post. She is truly an amazing woman in real life!

RW – I’m up for the challenge! The reference to the kitchen is because “something is cooking” on Roswell – and we all hope it isn’t rotten and smelly like rotten eggs!

Night all !

Zero
I Shall (Always) Believe!
PS – If you want to see an excellent movie – go see “Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon”! I saw it tonight, and it is wonderful!

Ilove the idea about the stagecoach and Liz being the messanger. When you think about it, Tess's abilities are based in deceit (she conceals what is there or creates what is not.) That would make her the polar opposite of Liz as the bringer of knowledge and understanding.

My theory goes like this: Tess is the bride and she did love her husband. But she saw that he was loosing the war. She feared for him so SHE struck a deal with Kivar in hopes that it would save Max. She detrayed him, hence the manifestation of her powers. Liz was the King's true love and either the key to the graniloth or the keeper of the key. Her position was as an advisor of some kind, maybe like an oracle. Hence her ability to seen into people's souls, and the messenger references.

I hope this makes sence And it is just an idea don't throw things!

Boy I love this thread! As we say around here "You guys ROCK!"

I really don't know if the writers are looking that much into all of the "signs" you're finding.

I was really interested in the one of the "destiny" book with the name "LIZ" backwards next to what looks like the granolith sideways...could it just be coincidence? Who knows...?

Keep the theories coming, I to read what all of you think.
I'm impressed with all of your findings...

I really don't know if the writers are looking that much into all of the "signs" you're finding.

I don't know either, but it's fun to find connections whether they are intentional or not. I imagine some of them are accidental, (that's why I was spoofing myself about the 3's and 4's in the party picture above) but I can't believe they all are. Funny that the Roswell spoof in Scholastic Math featured those same two numbers... http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/005750.html#1

quote:
I was really interested in the one of the "destiny" book with the name "LIZ" backwards next to what looks like the granolith sideways...could it just be coincidence? Who knows....

If you haven't seen Rosta's Signs and Symbols threads, you might want to look there too for more musings on that book.

Perhaps the theory that Earth was colonized by past generations of people from Antar is reversed. Maybe Earth was once inhabited by an advanced population who fled Earth to escape some devastating catastrophe and colonized Antar. Earth became a savage place for those few who were unable to escape, thus becoming our caveman ancestors, who then evolved to where we are now. Antar is just Earth evolved millions of years which explains why the "skins" powers are similar to the pod squad's which are just advanced human powers.

Okay, I was looking for the exact quote of the Debate Team's Topic ("If anyone asks, our Original Oratory topic was Space Travel--- wave of the future of Misbegotten dream?") on gAbby's site, and I found this scene as it was originally written:
quote:originally typed by gAbby and posted at http://members.fortunecity.com/wsgan/spoilers/vlv.html
Tess and Liz stand outside on the curb.

LIZ: There's other stuff we can do. Hoover dam, Cirque de Soliel. I saw a bunch of pamphlets in the lobby.

TESS: Absolutely perfect. (to herself) Stuck in party capital of the world with Liz Parker.

Liz stops short as she notcies a taxi cab pull though the valet stand. Pearches on teh roof is an advertisement for the elvis chapel. Liz stands there, shaken.

TESS: Maybe i'fe we're feeling really dangerous, we can get milkshakes and talk about boyes.

LIZ SNAPS

LIZ: For your information, Tess, I didn;t want to come here in the first place. This is a depressing town filled with sad people. I don't need to see it, Tess. And i certainly don't enjoy being trapped with you either. But a good friend once told me that you have to create you own memoreis, so we're gonna figure out a way to get back in there and make them. got it?!?

Tess is shocked, but impressed.

TESS: Sure.

quote:originally typed by gAbby and posted at http://members.fortunecity.com/wsgan/spoilers/vlv.html FOLLOW TWO WOMEN approaching casino floor. Their hair is teased, their dress is suggestive.

WOMAN #1: How do I look?

WOMAN #2: Thirty, thirty-two easy. How about me?

We see now that the women are Liz and Tess. They certainly don't look like teenagers anymore. They wear skin tight sequined dresses, obvious purchases from the lobby gift shop.

TESS: You need more color.

Tess touches Liz's lips, and they turn bright RED.

LIZ: O.K. Big smile. Let's go.

Liz and Tess make a break for the casino floor. Out of nowhere, the same Security Guard steps into their path.

SECURITY GUARD: Can I help you ladies?

LIZ: We're just meeting our husbands.

SECURITY GUARD: Uh-huh. Are you guests of the hotel?

Tess spots TWO GUYS at the bar and winks. They look her up and down and smile back.

LIZ: Of course.

SECURITY GUARD: And what room are you staying in?

LIZ: (not backing down) Two . . . four. . . seven. Three.

SECURITY GUARD: Hit the bricks, girls. I'm not gonna --

MAN: (OS) Is there are problem?

The two guys stand behind the Security Guard. Close up, it's easy to tell that they're wiseguys. Meet BRUNO PUGLIS and his cohort JOE. The Security Guard blanches.

SECURITY GUARD: No, no problem, Mr. Puglisi. These ladies were just --

PUGLISI: These ladies are with us.

TESS: We tried to tell him.

SECURITY GUARD: I -- I'm so sorry. They didn't say --

JOE: No harm, no foul. Right, Pugsy?

PUGLISI: Right, Joe. Girls? After you.

Throwing smug looks at the Security Guard, Tess and Liz enter the casino on the arms of their mobster dates. but I can see why they cut this one (kinda gratuitous, if you ask me) also from gAbby's site: quote:SCENE 23 OMITTED

INT. CASINO-- BAR-- NIGHT 24

Liz and Tess sit with Puglisi and Joe at the bar. Remnants of food and drink are in front of them. Joe fills out a Keno card. Puglisi entertains the girls.

LIZ: SO Pugsy, what do you do?

PUGLISI: Human resources, hiring and firing. You know.

LIZ: Interesting. Somewhere locally?

Joe throws down his Keno card and belches into his napkin.

LIZ: Uh.....we thought it might be fun to gamble.

PUGLISI: We can do that later.

JOEY: Yeah. Let's finish our date.

He makes date sound like a four letter word. Joey wraps an arm around Tess. The girls feel the changing of the tide.

LIZ: Guys, thank you so much for dinner and the stimulating conversation, butt I'm suddenly feeling a little sick, so if you'd excuse--

PUGLISI: Hey, Shirley, we've already dropped a cool hundred on you two.

JOE: ANd we expect that to be credited to our bill.

LIZ: Bill?

PUGLISI: (leering) You know......for services rendered. So why don't we just head up to the room and get busy.

Puglisi strokes Liz's thigh. She's scared. Big time.

TESS: Liz walk away now.

Liz turns and discovers Tess going into a mindwarp.

Liz gets to her feet. Puglisi stares at Liz's half empty chair and kisses the hand of an imaginary woman.

PUGLISI: Oh, yeah. You are so beautiful.

Joe looks at Tess. Thanks to the mindwarp, he thinks she's in the mood.

JOE: That's right. This big boy needs a spanking.

PUGLISI: I'd like to show you something, too.

Tess gets up and she and Liz walk away. The two men remain at the bar, talking to two girls who are no longer there.

LIZ: How long will this last?

TES: Long enough

Liz smacks Joey upside the head.

JOE: Yeah, like that.

TESS: Let's get out of here.

The girls escape.

It has been a while since I posted here but I still do lurk often.

I was just thinking about Liz and Ava and their conversation in MITC. When Liz told Ava how Max had saved her the look that Ava gave Liz has bothered me for some time. I am theorizing that maybe there was a legend on Antar of the king finding his true bride by saving a foreigner thus changing her and marking her as his bride. Now, this being a legend, as in The Sword in the Stone, it could have been overlooked for centuries, but kept in the folklore of the people. Zan and Max both being king subconsciously have this legend ingrained in them and so, whether they realize it or not, they have always been looking for their true bride. In the meantime marriages were arranged on their planet for centuries for political purposes. This would tie that Tess was Max's bride, but the legend is still there. It is on Earth that Max has finally found his true bride, but she must prove her worth to be accepted. What do you think?

Max's mom could have sent Liz down to Max in hopes that he would find her and be able to be with her this time around. Kind of a, Tess for the cause and Liz for the soul type thing.

This idea is not ment to demote Liz's importance at all. I still think she was some kind of guide, oracle, advisor to the king (and maybe to the whole "counsel of 5 planets" group). I still think her being in the presence of the granolith will trigger something. Kind of shake something loose.

God knows something needs to be shaken up

Have you ever discussed the significance of the city of Phoenix that keeps getting mentioned? For example when FutureMax said that after he and Liz were married they ended up at some dive outside Phoenix.

I was thinking yesterday about Phoenix (I was born & raised in Phx) and about the Phoenix bird. The story of the Phoenix bird is that the bird somehow dies in a fire and rises out of the flames in a kind of rebirth. It's interesting to me that that's where Max and Liz ended up kinda signifing a rebirth!

From the people that I've talked with in LA, I can assure you the Liz will have a very important role in an upcoming episode, but even I am not sure what that is.

LIZ: Hey -- where you going?

MAX: I'm catching a cab to the airport.

LIZ: What happened?

MAX: Michael.

LIZ: Oh. Well. I'm sure you two can work it out.

MAX: I don't think so. Too much stuff was said.

LIZ: You know, Maria's pretty convinced that Michael's mouth is in no way connected to his brain.

MAX: Don't try to defend him. You weren't there.

Max sees a cab, WHISTLES.

LIZ: If you leave... this trip isn't going to be the same.

MAX: You'll have a better time without me. I'm a machine that ruins everyone else's good time.

Liz finally gives up. She walks back into the Casino. A CAB finally pulls up and deposits A YOUNG BRIDE and GROOM onto the sidewalk. The young, happy couple positively run into the casino. Max watches them go by... is about to get in the cab... then looks back...

THE BRIDE & GROOM - SLOW MOTION

The bride and groom laughing and running into the casino.

MAX watches them, frozen in the open door of the cab.

THE BRIDE & GROOM - SLOW MOTION

but this time it's Max & Liz wearing the tux and bridal gown.

MAX stares at the vision.

DRIVER'S VOICE: You in or out, pal?

The voice breaks the moment. Max stands there, shocked by the momentary vision and unsure what to do next...and the body count on BraveHeart in this version of the script is 220.

And Kyle says he has 6 months rent $.
Why do they call him "Grasshopper?" Isn't that another drink name? Or is it just from the Budhist quote from S&B?

**Liz/Shirley Temple is just plain ginger ale and grenadine (juice of a pomograted seeds) poured into a highball glass. Shiri's character Liz is just too straight lace to be anything but a Shirley Temple. Also the Actress Shirley Temple was a head of her time in the movie industry as a very talented and child star. As Liz is a head of her peers in knowledge. ST's political career is similar to Liz's as ST was a member of the U.S. delegation to the United Nations (1969-1970), was U.S. ambassador to Ghana (1974-1976), and became the first woman in U.S. history to serve as chief of protocol (1976-1977), during the administration of President Gerald R. Ford. She served as ambassador to Czechoslovakia (1989-1992),under President Bush. Liz serves as an ambassdor too, for Earth in a way.

An ambassador to -Czechoslovakia-?? Does anyone else see a link here?? I can see Liz as an ambassador to Roswell's Czechoslovakians! (I know, that they don't really call the aliens Czechs any more, but when I saw that...well I choked on my chicken strip, but thats another story...)

Val

EraserRoom – I think that is a cool theory. If Tess has to be the bride??? Then this is a way to make Liz the soulmate.

Alien watcher – I have always promoted the ancient civilization connection, but never considered this approach to it. I like it a lot, and see it as a great way to connect the two civilizations. Time will tell if the writers are as creative as the people here??

Quote by Adrien:
quote: Have you ever discussed the significance of the city of Phoenix that keeps getting mentioned? For example when FutureMax said that after he and Liz were married they ended up at some dive outside Phoenix.
I was thinking yesterday about Phoenix (I was born & raised in Phx) and about the Phoenix bird. The story of the Phoenix bird is that the bird somehow dies in a fire and rises out of the flames in a kind of rebirth. It's interesting to me that that's where Max and Liz ended up kinda signifing a rebirth!
Wonderful catch! Anyone who is a “Harry Potter” fan – which I am – knows that the Phoenix is an important element to the story! So, though it could be nothing more than the large city in Arizona conveniently located within driving time of Roswell, it could have more significance as you point out!

Shapeshifter – thanks for all the cut scenes. They are very fun and interesting to read. Interesting for many reasons, one of which is the decision to leave them out gives us insight into the thinking of the creators of the show. Such as the last scene where Liz comes after Max. I find it interesting that they changed it to where Max searches out Liz to tell her he is leaving. That completely changes the tone of the scene for me – Max feeling that he can’t leave without finding Liz to tell her. Umm…!

Quote from Val:
quote: An ambassador to -Czechoslovakia-?? Does anyone else see a link here?? I can see Liz as an ambassador to Roswell's Czechoslovakians! (I know, that they don't really call the aliens Czechs any more, but when I saw that...well I choked on my chicken strip, but thats another story...)

Val – I love it when people pick up on old connections like this. Whether it is meant or not, it is a great catch. Maybe Liz was some kind of Ambassador on Antar??

Okay – a couple of other thoughts. I was reading a magazine today and this jumped up at me:
[quote]The levels of the 5-tierred pagoda represent the 5 elements from which Buddhists believe all things in the universe are produced: earth, water, fire, wind and sky.[quote]
With all the Buddha references and the number 5 – this just jumped out at me! Of course, someone probably mentioned this before, but there it is again!

Now – I was thinking about adoption, and it made me think about where the Evans’ kids allegiance and loyalty falls. They are created from Human DNA, raised by Human parents (we think ) , told that all their powers are advanced Human powers and lived their entire (current) lives on Earth. All of a sudden they get this “Destiny” message, and they are supposed to be Aliens! I know that in the media a lot of time is spent on adopted kids searching for their birth parents to fill the “void.” But one of my closest friends is adopted, and we talked at length about how she (and her brother who is also adopted) have never had the urge to search because they have always felt that their “parents” are the people who raised them, and their “family” are the people they have been surrounded by all their lives. Now, of course, she has had a wonderful life – but for some reason it got me thinking about the Evans’ kids. Adoptees are sometimes afraid to find out the truth – but what if you discovered this. I know this was dealt with in Toy House a bit, but it is a very interesting question/subject – and again goes back to that “nurture” vs. “nature” question.

Also – along these same lines – why do the pod squad not give any weight to the fact that they are HUMAN. Look at the similarities between Mikey G and Grams Dupree – won’t you want to find out more about your humanisms (is that a word??). And wouldn’t the other now too? Also – the way Grandpa Dupree wrote in a swirl is the same as the swirl on the alien beeper – look at the picture. Ummm…?

Okay – so anyone have any thoughts on this topic??

Zero
I Shall (Always) Believe!

It was a reference to an old TV show called Kung Fu. The main character, whose name I cannot remember, had a buddhist(?) teacher who walked around in saffron colored robes and called him "grasshopper".

Re: cut scenes -
The VLV script just seems to vary WAY too much from the actual show in its portrayal of Liz/Tess. It seems to be more of a decision to take the show in another direction than cutting scenes due to time restraints.
Do Liz and Tess have a "showdown" coming????

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

Can’t take too long posting because as a lot of you Bostonians know, we have a blizzard warning and I came to work before they let us know that the office was closed. And since I can only post at work ( :cry ) I have to be quick, quick like a bunny.

I watched VLV 2x this weekend (once with my roommate who had not seen it yet) and I noticed that when Max comes to tell Liz he is leaving, right after she says “Yeah, who would want to get married at an Elvis Chapel.” Max looks at her and then he notices she is thinking something else. Check it out! He gives a questioning look! Gives me hope that he we put 6 and 6 together and ask her about it!

shapeshifter-- that picture is funny!

Zero—I totally agree that virginity of both Max and Liz are an important theme. Virgin High 5’s for everyone! Seriously, I am a snow dreamer (someone who doesn’t think that anyone should have sex, but especially Max and Liz) but I think that because Max bonds so strongly with whoever he makes love to it has to be Liz if is to be anyone!

I really have to go, so I am printing out the pages and I’ll write more later.

1) Because Max’s life is in Liz’s hands now.
2) Because Liz is different.
3) Because Max put a force on Liz.
4) Because Liz’s life changed in an instant.
5) Because Max risked everything because “It was you.”
6) Because Liz is on this path to Valendictorian.
7) Because Liz came up with a way to divert Valenti (Pilot)
8) Because it wasn’t safe, but Liz didn’t care.
9) Because Liz will never look at the stars in the sky the same way again.
10) Because Liz was the first to suspect Topolsky.
11) Because secrets make you feel like you DO belong.
12) Because Liz wasn’t concerned about her future.
13) Because Liz always has to have a plan.
14) Because life will never go back to normal.
15) Because Grandma Claudia is the basis of her existence.
16) Because Liz left normal and once she did she could never go back.
17) Because Liz always follows her heart where ever it takes her.
18) Because Liz has known that they aren’t all the same for a really long time.
19) Because Max’s life didn’t even start until he told Liz the truth that day.
20) Because first of all, nothing about Liz is stupid
21) Because asked what they were waiting for (in 285 South).
22) Because Liz didn’t come to ask for Max’s permission (RD).
23) Because Liz knew that you can tell the difference between female and male blood.
24) Because Liz thought of Alex to donate his blood.
25) Because Liz and Alex uncovered Topolski as FBI.
26) Because Liz knew the right time to tell Alex the truth.
27) Because Max thinks that Liz looks like Venus in the morning sky.
28) Because they have that whole “look into my eyes soul mate thing.”
29) Because it wasn’t until Liz entered the healing circle that Michael got better.
30) Because Liz could never let Max down.
31) Because Liz didn’t mean to have doubts.
32) Because Max has a really good lab partner: she’s really good in science.
33) Because Liz wasn’t afraid to tell Max to take a psych class.
34) Because Liz figured out why Max and Isabel went camping.
35) Because Max made Liz a part of this.
36) Because Liz has made up her mind.
37) Because Liz knew how important finding the symbol in ITW before anyone else was.
38) Because it was Liz’s idea to have the search party find her and Maria.
39) Because Liz isn’t “into clowns.”
40) Because they saw into each other’s souls.
41) Because Liz protects Max, especially when he’s drunk.
42) Because Liz needs grief relief.
43) Because Liz didn’t feel normal.
44) Because Liz saw stars when she kissed Max
45) Because Liz got visions.
46) Because there was a good reason why Max missed some of his classes.
47) Because Liz also needs to find out where all of this leads
48) Because Liz found the orb.
49) Because Liz knew when to trust Topolski.
50) Because Topolski knew she was smart.
51) Because Max looks at Liz and knows that she’s the one he’s supposed to be with. He’s always known it.
52) Because Liz is “The One.” The only one.
53) Because everything she saw with her eyes told her he was cheating on her, but everything she felt in her heart told her he wasn’t.
54) Because she went on faith—a lot of it.
55) Because Max doesn’t feel unsettled when he kisses Liz.
56) Because you are who you choose to be, just like you are with who you choose to be with.
57) Because Liz went in and planted the camera.
58) Because Liz discovered Ed and Tess Harding were after Max.
59) Because Liz figured out it was Venus that completed the V constellation.
60) Because Liz knew that Maxedo wasn’t Max.
61) Because “He changed me.”
62) Because Liz wouldn’t leave without Max.
63) Because Liz went to Valenti to save Max.
64) Because saving Liz that day was the day his life began.
65) Because “It was you, Liz, the thought of you,” that kept Max alive.
66) Because knowing Liz has made Max human.
67) Because whether it be now or 50 years from now, his destiny is the same…it’s Liz.
68) Because Edsedo was healed when Liz was present.
69) Because Liz was strong enough to walk away.
70) Because Liz tried to stay away from Max because she knows how easy it is to fall in love with him.
71) Because Liz knew about the sub-particle lab.
72) Because Liz isn’t a dork, she just enjoys science.
73) Because Max is coming for Liz.
74) Because Liz figured out that CW was taping her phone conversations.
75) Because Liz doesn’t have any regrets.
76) Because he chooses her.
77) Because it’s Liz he trusts, Liz he has faith in.
78) Because Liz didn’t do it for Tess. She did it for Max.
79) Because he felt it and he knew she did too.
80) Because Liz was willing to give up Max for the sake of his race!
81) Because Liz was just making him love her more.
82) Because Liz gives up Max (the ultimate sacrifice) to save everyone (including Max!).
83) Because it took a lot for Max to turn away from Liz—but he still hasn’t really
84) Because Max knew Liz wasn’t scared—just hiding something.
85) Because Liz helped the Pod Squad get into the Crawford’s house.
86) Because Liz discovered CW’s body was really a husk.
87) Because Liz deducted that if the force field in WO was turned on it could be turned off.
88) Because even though he was hurt, Max listened to what Liz said about the Granolith.
89) Because Isabel knows Max and that if there’s one voice he would hear no matter where he is or what he’s doing, it’s Liz’s.
90) Because Liz could contact Max across 3,000 miles.
91) Because Liz saved Max.
92) Because when Max needed a friend, he went to Liz.
93) Because Liz always has a solution on how to restore the balance.
94) Because Liz senses when Max is there.
95) Because Liz told Max he can’t keep healing people.
96) Because Max believes in Liz.
97) Because Max needs Liz.
98) Because it’s all right to live your DREAMS!
99) Because Liz doesn’t want Max to be cheated.
100) Because Liz wants Max to come with her.
101) Because Liz will ALWAYS be a part of the group.
102) Because Max needs to ask Liz, the science whiz.
103) Because Liz automatically identifies the Blue Goo as a Gandarian virus.
104) Because Liz delegates the job of finding out about Frasier Woods to the best person for the job—Isabel.
105) Because Liz discovers the water table is below Puhlman Ranch.
106) Because Liz gives them the idea to “phone home.”
107) Because Larek knows Liz is important.
108) Because everyone always looks to Liz for help in science.
109) Because Liz realizes that the Gandarian Crystals die without oxygen.
110) Because Liz is the only one Max could see as his bride (from Promo).
111) Because Liz follows her heart.
112) Because it’s Liz.

My theory goes like this: Tess is the bride and she did love her husband. But she saw that he was loosing the war. She feared for him so SHE struck a deal with Kivar in hopes that it would save Max. She detrayed him, hence the manifestation of her powers. Liz was the King's true love and either the key to the graniloth or the keeper of the key. Her position was as an advisor of some kind, maybe like an oracle. Hence her ability to seen into people's souls, and the messenger references.

Great thoughts ! I love your theory on the whole Max-Liz-Tess relationship.

Being a dreamer, I too, wish that Liz is Max's true bride ... but as the episodes continue, it looks like TPTB will not give us this. However your theory works for me and other great theories mentioned in this thread can be encorporated into it too (ie. Liz as priestess, the legend (about Liz) back on Antar, etc).

Anyway, I am thinking that Liz's soul is somehow 'bound' to the Granolith.

~Sheri

I was also wondering whether there was ever any intention of them physically returning home. Perhaps via the granilith, they will be able to take over alien bodies to communicate with home the way Larek and Co. do with humans.

I sure hope you all don't mind me sharing this wiht you! If it has been discussed before I apologize! It is new to me!

~Sheri

hmmm... Liz bonded to the granilith? I think it's ironic how the granitith could be just what brought Max & Liz together and it was also used to separate Max & Liz in EOTW.

Maybe if Max & Liz in this future, because they know more about the granilith this time around will have the time to learn as much about it and prevent any future disasters on this planet or theirs!

Have you ever discussed the significance of the city of Phoenix that keeps getting mentioned? For example when FutureMax said that after he and Liz were married they ended up at some dive outside Phoenix.

I was thinking yesterday about Phoenix (I was born & raised in Phx) and about the Phoenix bird. The story of the Phoenix bird is that the bird somehow dies in a fire and rises out of the flames in a kind of rebirth. It's interesting to me that that's where Max and Liz ended up kinda signifing a rebirth!

That's a really interesting catch, b/c that's also the location of the hospital where Max healed the children in ARCC--which is definitely classifiable as a rebirth!

shapeshifter Thank you for posting the cut scene info. When these scenes were originally floating around on the spoiler boards (I was still spoiled thenl) ), there was a lot of outcry about them. Everyone thought it was a sabotoage of Liz's basic character. Now, I don't know if the hue and cry there had any impact, but I think most of us here would agree that they seemed pretty out of character for Liz, and perhaps that's why they were changed so that she was playing pinball in the arcade.

Nemo Thanks for posting those pics. Is that from the luncheon? I recognize 6throck

Zero No, you & JK look nothing alike I'm glad you like my Celtic spin of events. I just think it's an angle worth checking out, b/c Max wasn't referred to as "the Once and Future King" for nothing! (Oddly enough, I was reading T. H. White's novel of that title when Harvest aired )

OK, something's been both bugging and exhilarating me. In VLV, when Max storms off to get a cab, it's daylight outside. Obviously he doesn't return to the hotel to change for the supper club till later, which is , he probably sat somewhere and thought about what he wanted to do. And admittedly it was pretty late by the time Maria finished singing. However, when they enter the hotel suite hand-in-hand, it is the next morning. That means that the eight of them hung around all night together, and it went well enough that M&L not only sported happy smiles but were holding hands at the end of the night. I want to know what happened in the intervening hours!!!! (I know I'm whining; I'm sick so I'm entitled )
~Tas

Wow that introduction to the thread was incredible. There were subjects discussed that boggled my mind and really made me think about the intricate nature of a TV show. The Hero's joureny and the sections about Liz's Importiance really made sense. A very fine job Zero and I commend the patience to flow each subject into another in a logical sense...

Love and Roswell,
Liz Rose

OK, something's been both bugging and exhilarating me. In VLV, when Max storms off to get a cab, it's daylight outside. Obviously he doesn't return to the hotel to change for the supper club till later, which is , he probably sat somewhere and thought about what he wanted to do. And admittedly it was pretty late by the time Maria finished singing. However, when they enter the hotel suite hand-in-hand, it is the next morning. That means that the eight of them hung around all night together, and it went well enough that M&L not only sported happy smiles but were holding hands at the end of the night. I want to know what happened in the intervening hours!!!! (I know I'm whining; I'm sick so I'm entitled )
~Tas

I didn't notice that until the third time ( I know I am obsessed) I watched VLV. Then I wondered what happened?? I went and read the shooting script, but there aren't any cut scenes from that time period, so it's all up to speculations at this point. I definitly think that they hung out all night together and obviously had a great time! They were all smiling and laughing when they first came back to the room. *sigh* As cute as it was to see Valenti in parent mode, I wonder what they all would have done if he hadn't found them? Maybe they all would have worked together to get Michael an accurate body count for Braveheart!

Val

Thanks for the compliment LizRose! I always appreciate hearing nice words about the Intro!

Tas - Don't you wish they had the Liz Journal posted at the Silverhandprint, up-dating it regularly with the background stories! I too wish I knew what happened there and a number of other places in other episodes!!

BTW - 6thRock lives up here and went to the Bellingham luncheon that picture was taken from. We drove together with two other wonderful Roswell fans and were total "chatty Cathys" the entire time (4 hour drive - 2 each way)! It was a total Blast!! I'm due to have lunch with 6thRock soon to get information on the LA gathering!

huggybehr - I like your idea about being able to "visit" Antar w/o actually going there. I bet the writers could use that idea.

SciFiMom - great theory that totally jives with what many think on this thread. Never worry about if you might be repeating a theory - usually, it is just touching on another with a slight twist.

SO - the idea is to rewatch Summer of '47 tonight and discuss it. If you do rewatch it, feel free to post what you notice - and we will discuss it!

Shapeshifter - those sound like a cool series of books!

Zero
I Shall Believe

Here's the Ros1 thread... http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/005793.html

and the WB Board thread... http://talk.thewb.com/read.php?f=1&i=57290&t=57290

Come check it out, because we ALL want a third season of Roswell!!

Here's the link: http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum12/HTML/002467.html

Here's the link: http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum12/HTML/002467.html

Nice pictures,tank you!
But Im cant see pictures from motel and your own credit.
06.03.2001. 05:07

Perhaps the theory that Earth was colonized by past generations of people from Antar is reversed. Maybe Earth was once inhabited by an advanced population who fled Earth to escape some devastating catastrophe and colonized Antar. Earth became a savage place for those few who were unable to escape, thus becoming our caveman ancestors, who then evolved to where we are now. Antar is just Earth evolved millions of years which explains why the "skins" powers are similar to the pod squad's which are just advanced human powers. [/B]

What if Venus was the planet that was originally inhabited by Antarians, they had to leave Venus, but saw that Earth was developing life and kept an eye on it. That is why the R4 were sent to Earth because Antarians knew it had life.

Venus facts: rotation period: 243 earth days
one year: 225 earth days
SULFURIC clouds lie about 70 kilometers above the surface

The Roman goddess of love and beauty, but originally a VEGETATION goddess and patroness of GARDENS and VINEYARDS. Later, under Greek influence, she was equated with Aphrodite and assumed many of her aspects.

Venus facts: rotation period: 243 earth days
one year: 225 earth days
SULFURIC clouds lie about 70 kilometers above the surface

Okay, so this stuff was already pointed out. (Went back and reread the intro). Sorry for the repeat of info.

That would explain the Venus connection. Maybe Venus was Antar a long time ago or a long time in the future. Maybe the pods were sent from a different time.

Just checking in to make sure Zero is doing well after that earthquake! I hope so!

I just thought about the fact that she is from Seattle or I would have asked sooner

I see you have posted. That makes me feel better

BTW-On the SO'47 Discussion on the WB board I keep refering to diamonds and and 5's and I kept giving you guys a heads up I know you have all seen all of that by now though Nothing gets past the RBIs.

Lots of Love,
SweetJo
I SHALL BELIEVE!!!!!

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

Seriously, Vihmakass that is a really good point. Why does Max's seal show his home galaxy as seen from Earth? Lack of foresight by the special effects people, or a clue?

I wish I had something to contribute but my next set of tapes haven't arrived. I'm slowly going into withdrawal here.

As for Phoenix being mentioned, how many times has it been mentioned? I've not heard it refered to but then I've seen episodes up to 285 South. Now I do know that Las Vegas has a few mentioned but that's not Phoenix.

I'm not sure if anyone has ever seen this but I've noticed that there are very few enclosed places in Roswell. Most scenes are shot in wide open space (Do NOT even attempt any country music jokes with that!) The school hallways are wide. Desert scenes are flat and wide. In fact, the eraser room seems a pretty large room for a janitor's closet. I'm sure there is camera considerations on this but I just thought I would bring it up. (I think I just contributed. Huh. Go figure.)

Chad Evans
"Because you can do impossible things." -Dar to Curupira in "The Demon Curupira".

Ros1 thread… http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/005793.html
WB thread… http://talk.thewb.com/read.php?f=1&i=57290&t=57290

Thanks to everyone who posted!! Please spread the word, the only way this will work is if we have EVERYONE participating. More important than posting however is to e-mail the sponsors and the affiliates!

Here's where you can find information on the affiliates… http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum12/HTML/002445.html

And here are this weeks sponsors…
This is where the money comes from so if we can get the sponsor's support we have a better chance of getting a season 3. When you e-mail these sponsors, CC the WB. Here are the WB e-mails: faces@thewb.com , jamie@talk.theWB.com , susanne@talk.theWB.com , and jordan@talk.theWB.com . Let them see what we are doing, let them know we are contacting their sponsors DIRECTLY!! If you are unsure what to say to the sponsors go here.
Apple (iMac) - welch@apple.com Also check out the website http://www.mac.com/
Sony Playstation 2 - webmaster@playstation.sony.com Also check out the website http://www.sony.com/
1-800-COLLECT - http://www.1800collect.com/docs2/sub_contact.asp
Sprint PCS http://csg.sprint.com/custserv/feedback_form.html

If you want to save Roswell, you have to take action now. The WB doesn't necessarily want to keep Roswell, it's an expensive show to produce. So we have to show them that Roswell has a large and supportive fan base and that it is worth keeping!!

In looking at sci-fi books (I shelved that section the other day) I did notice that the theme of the hero being forced to marry (someone not really ood) and having a TRUE love seemed to be really common. That is definately a strong archetype in myths.

And sp[eaking of campaigns - there is a cleverone to send Max a birthday card c/o the WB with a message saying "sorry we couldnt be together on your birthday". All the info is on Ros2.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

I have a question. Ok, I know you all are on top of everything, so this has probably already been done, but has anybody every copied Zero's intro and sent it to the writers? Just a thought. If they have run out of story ideas, this is the place to come.

Oh, and also, has anyone gotten a response from the set directors about the list of questions you all sent?

Ok, I will go back into lurk mode. The incredibly intelligent and observant people on this board always make me feel a little on the dumb side. I would never have noticed all this stuff, if I hadn't found this board.

Dreamertoo

Vih - Excellent question! Of course, there are many things that create loose ends like this. Why would the seal be in the V formation since it would only be in a V formation from certain perspectives (like when viewing it from Earth), and assuming the planets orbit a sun or suns - wouldn't the 5 planets change their positions with respect to each other. I'm no astronomer, but I think about what I know about our solar system, and while we have the typical "view" of it, the planets in reality change their positioning constantly.

SweetJo - Thanks for the thoughts! We came through it all shaken, but okay. I was in Pioneer Square yesterday, and amazingly it looked pretty good, though some of the brick building did suffer significant damage. We all feel very lucky given the potential!

huggybehr - I think Vih's observation goes to your theory. AN advanced civilation leaves Earth for the 5 planets it has observed due to a catasrophic (sp?) disaster, leaving behind the beings that evolved into the humans we know today. Thus, the common ancestor theory, just backwards to my theory - but it would work that this ancient civilation had created the V symbol before leaving Earth for Antar. ??

Faile - I'm going to try and get over there and post today later. I think the idea of contacting the sponsors directly is excellent. I encourage everyone to do that. We want a Season 3 to investigate (and tie up some loose ends!)

Dreamertoo - remember you are always welcome! As to you questions - a couple of people have mentioned that they wanted to get the Intro to the writers, but I don't know if anyone ever has. It would be totally cool if someone did! As far as the questions go - my contact side that they have not been able to chat with the source (due to rain and changes in shooting schedules), but hope to this week. As soon as I hear anything I will post it - and include it in the Intro.

BTW - I never thanked StarBox for the pictures. I will try to reserve the second spot for you next time I start a thread. Sorry I didn't this time.

I was in a bit of withdrawal last night without a new Roswell - thank goodness we have such observant people always coming up with great insights!

Zero
I Shall Believe!

I just wanted to say thanks to all of you for all the info about swans,the importance of virginity, Cinderella, Wells Fargo, interpretation of Spanish, the breakdown and meaning of names, the background info on both William Wallace(loved that movie Braveheart by the way) and Rob Roy, the sword in the stone analogies, the debate subject being about TIME TRAVEL, and all the speculation about Antarians originally being from Venus or Earth or whatever, incredible stuff here.

I don't really have much else to add--I did notice at the end of VLV Michael handing the $5.00 bill with Abe Lincoln on it---the cup with tips seemed to be dwelled upon--anyone have any idea what message or clue is here---I did see on the menu chalked on a board behind them as they were leaving it said either SPECIAL 5 or 5 SPECIAL hmmmm.

One other thing--Valenti showing up and reading them the riot act--I felt like it is being demonstrated to us that VALENTI has taken on a NASEDO type role with the podsters---which reminds me of ITTW eppy when they got a signal and Michael interpreted the message as "Nasedo is here" as Valenti rounds the bushes and comes out, hmmmmmmm----so I keep thinking maybe Valenti is Nasedo, which then makes EdHarding(creepy) not who they thought he was--I have always had and still continue to have my suspicions about exactly who he was and his real purpose, and the ultimate purpose of Tess since she was introduced with him as well?

What a wonderfull world of crazy thoughts...
sry.gram.

Evid

People keep asking this. I think that it's not a map, but a logo: a symbol of The Five Planets' government, alliance, or some other relationship. Look at the US flag, with 50 stars in an orderly pattern. There are no real stars arranged like that, and the 50 States aren't arranged that way either. It's a symbol, not a picture.

Yes, I sometimes wonder about "Roswell" too. The truly bad science can't be an attempt to get sci-fi fans; it's repulsive.

As for Liz not wanting to mind-warp the security guy, that was smart! (As usual! ) Remember that casinos are full of security cameras. If those two kids had gotten by a mind-warped guard, there'd have been a squad of bouncers dispatched from the office, pronto. Can you think of a better way of getting the wrong sort of attention? (Short of cheating at craps, for instance. )

Symbol what come true in earth? I don't think so...
And in royal seal - there is real stars not only symbol.Btw there is many things with clues to V-constellation - like podsters biological drives and destiny .
It was only then logical if all 5star symbol was seemd from alienplanet viewpoint.

One of the complaints made about Valenti's job as sheriff was that he spent all his time with the teenagers in what seemed like a peer-peer situation. Now he turns back to authority figure.

Perhaps this is another example (albeit small) of restoring balance.

Great photos, Qfanny! But what's a "MOB14", from your sig? Inquiring mindless want to know!

Reggie, I agree with Vihmakass, we have been shown the royal seal as an actual constellation in 'The Balance' and remember the computer program in '4 Square'? I think it is more than symbolic.

In Balance, when they are about to heal Michael, Riverdog explains about the balance being their internal energy. Then he warns them, "The balance can pull you in. It's a force that can change both your body and your mind." What if Max transferred some of his internal energy, his balance, to Liz when he healed her? Maybe that's why she was able to participate in the healing even unprepared, b/c she was linked to Max through their shared energy. And that might also explain why now he is off-balance without her by his side. Just a thought

Vihmakass Good catch about the V constellation; Reggie's probably right about it being a stylized logo, though
~Tas

This brings me to Kyle and Liz's conversation in TEOTW about dying and being brought back by an alien. Kyle may have died - no connection, no flashes. Liz did not. Remember the scene in the Pilot "Liz, you have to look at me" - eye contact, connection, flashes, voila!

This brings me to Kyle and Liz's conversation in TEOTW about dying and being brought back by an alien. Kyle may have died - no connection, no flashes. Liz did not. Remember the scene in the Pilot "Liz, you have to look at me" - eye contact, connection, flashes, voila!

[/B][/QUOTE]

On the Tess personna, I think the character's been totally rewritten.

Vihmakass & huggybehr, I think Reggie's right on the brain seal being a logo instead of a star map. A 'seal' is by definition a type of logo.

peej, thanks for the heads up on 'turn.'

We have a thread on Ros2, but we all have handprint tattoos except for MOB25/Crystal, she has a Bear Paw, so she is MOB25-BP1.
http://bbs2-cgi.fanforum.com/postdisplay.cgi?forum=Forum12&topic=002175

This really isn't the place to talk about tattoos. Unless of course, Liz gets her dragon tattoo... But if you have questions, go ahead and ask on that thread.

BTW - read the entire thread to understand the history. It's more than just a bunch of crazy ladies, we are a force on our own.

What if Max transferred some of his internal energy, his balance, to Liz when he healed her? Maybe that's why she was able to participate in the healing even unprepared, b/c she was linked to Max through their shared energy. And that might also explain why now he is off-balance without her by his side. Just a thought

Tasyfa - Thanks for posting this! I don't remember Riverdog explaining about The Balance, so I'm gonna have to go and rewatch this eppy. I really like your thoughts, especially the part about Max being off-balance with out Liz!

This coincides with what I've been up to today too...

I think all those are linked. Here's how Liz could be important to the alien mythology
& how she could be the 'true bride'. She - like the pod squad - has lived before.

There were 2 shapeshifters - one assigned to each batch. They were brothers who had
different ideas on Max's destiny. Tic-tac was assigned to the Dupes but left them when he
discovered they weren't real Royal Four. Tic-tac's wife - a human who he fell in love with on
an earlier trip to Earth - also came with them. They were the parents of a daughter -
Liz's previous self.
Max fell in love with Tess first. It was love at first sight. They quickly arranged
for a wedding & it was approved because Tess was from a whealthy family. A few months
before the wedding, Max fell in love again - with Liz. They started having secret
meetings & Max quickly realized she was his true soul mate but could never marry her
because she wasn't from a whealthy family. He told Tess that he'd fallen in love with
someone but still wanted to go through with the wedding. Tess was deeply hurt by this but
she agreed to marry him for show & let him have his happy life with Liz, praying he'd
learn to love her again. They say when something traumatic happens to us, we block it out
which may explain why Tess only remembers Max being in love with her.
I think all Hell broke loose on their wedding day. Kivar found out about Liz from
Vilondra & used it against Max. Kivar attacked that day & killed Liz,Max & Micheal. He
probably killed Liz in front of Max. Vilondra died sometime during the struggle.
Apparently, just because you die doesn't mean your essence does. Shortly after Kivar
took over, their essence was cloned & sent here. Liz's essence - unlike the pod squad's -
wasn't given a body. For safe keeping, it was transferred into the body of her mother -
Tic-tac's wife. On arrival to Earth, she was to find a worthy human to pass along Liz's
essence to.
Enter Grandma Claudia. By the time they had hid the pod squad & their Dupes, Tic-Tac's
wife was dying. The trip had been rough on her because they hadn't had time to prepare
the voyage properly for a human. GC came upon a man struggling to help his wife. With
the knowledge that GC had learned from watching her sister when she was younger, she
helped ease the woman's pain but couldn't save her.
The woman passed the 'true bride's' essence to GC during that time. Tic-Tac knew this
& told GC he was phsyic & that the next woman born into her family - Liz - would grow
up to marry her soulmate & they'd accomplish great things together. I doubt if GC knew
Tic-tac was an alien.
Now back to the shapeshifters. I've told most of what Tic-Tac's role is in all this.
Now Naesado. Tic-Tac found out aout M&L's soulmate status shortly after it started &
agreed with it. Naesado didn't. He thought Liz had made Max weak & that if she hadn't
gotten involved, Max would've seen Kivar's attack coming. He knew this Liz was the clone
of the one back on Antar which is why he was always cold towards her. He probably didn't
know for sure until he kissed her in M2TM - even though he could tell there was an obvious
otherworldly attraction between them. Seeing her discomfort afterwards was probably
his confirmation.
As for whether or not Liz's shooting was an accident or not: Not a chance! I think
those two arguing were the shapeshifters. The one that said: "She has to be killed!"
was Neasado. Tic-tac disagreed & fought with him. However, I think Tic-tac pulled the
trigger. He knew that Max would save her - and trigger the 'change'! By shooting her
himself, he was able to ensure the shot wasn't one that couldn't be healed & he knew
they would be forced to flee which took Naesado's opportunity to do her harm away.

C. McCoy - Welcome! Cool theory! Now if only the writers were listening or reading!

I finally rewatched the first part of VLV. I'm slow - but I've been busy. I did notice that Max's curtains and Liz's shirt both had diamond shape patterns.

I'm tired now - night all !

Zero
I Shall Believe!

This week was a good start to the campaign, but it could have been better. I was hoping it would be better at least. I fear there are a lot of fans who are tired of campaigning...we had to go through this last year after all. And let's face it, the last 4 episodes, excluding VLV, were not the best of the season. But we can't give up hope or should I say I can't give up hope I know I can only do so much though. I certainly can't force people to post. I have put the word out and you all make your own decisions.

I was hoping there would be more participation in this campaign because it's more about just talking about Roswell and posting about it. Something most of us do every day anyway. I hope next week will be better since End of the World is such an amazing episode. The important thing for me is to try!! So those of you who want to, continue to spread the word. Having it on the front page of the Crashdown helps a lot. It let's TPTB know that we still love Roswell and we still enjoy and talk about even though it is on hiatus.

This will be my last post on your thread regarding this campaign. I'm sorry if I have annoyed anyone, I'm just trying to spread the world and this is definitely an affective way to do that. I don't have the time or energy to continue to do this however so if you want to know any details regarding the status of the campaign go to this thread Roswell Hiatus Campaigns

Thanks for reading

You're quite right, peej. We've been getting alot of musical messages about turning. I particularly love Travis' "Turn", used in We Are Family. The Wallflowers' "Baby Bird" was amazing too (about looking up in old age and seeing the bird flying overhead...) I don't know how they do it, but tptb make uncanny selections for the background music. It's as if the songs were written specifically for the story. (Let's hope that's not the case - if the Roswell staff is out there commissioning music from all these bands, they're spending WAY too much money!)

Faile - you are always welcome to post campaign info on this thread! But I must admit I'm one of those that is burning out a bit. I made the mistake of reading spoilers recently, and as Reggie says - This is your brain on spoilers !! Not a good thing! I'm thinking I need to take a break from my Roswell obsession because .... well, I can't really go into it since all spoilers are a NoNo ! But I will continue to check in since I still want to do one more major overhaul of the Intro - and of course, I Still Believe! Call me a Polyanna!

BTW - I finally watched the rest of VLV this morning and the I still find it significant that Max goes to find Liz (obviously having asked where to find her), and the wedding flash is so intense - I think the official explaination is plausible, but I also feel the theory that Liz had picked up the memory from FM, and then was transmitting it to Max (even subconsciously) is more plausible. Also - I still find it interesting that Liz continues to be the ONLY human to get flashes. When Iz was kissing the friend of the groom, I thought "wow, she is really into this, why isn't he getting a flash if it is only intense emotions that cause them??"

Okay - time to retreat for a while, but I will be lurking and keeping the thread going!

Zero
I Shall (continue and always) Believe!

So I'm out of work for two days because of this major snowstorm in MA (how about that fellow MA'ers!?) and you've all gone crazy on ideas and thoughts. Have to go read them, but of course Zero has peaked my curiousity to the MAX with the above comment!

What DOES Roswell hold? *sigh* Oh.. the aggravation of being spoiler-free!

shapeshifter—“2 orbs over easy with hot sauce”

nermal I don’t think anyone would like Diane’s fritatta.

Thanks for posting those cut scenes.

jjac—your theory is very plausible

c.mccoy—very interesting theories! Keep posting them!

Alienwatcher—was going to post your theory about Earth being colonized by past Antarians, but alas my laziness has crept in. So, I just wanted to say interesting theory!

EraserRoom—your theory about Tess striking a deal with Kivar was my first ever theory(before Vilondra was revealed as the traitor, which I don’t necessarily believe) about a traitor in the ranks. Glad to know I’m not the only one!

Thanks, GraceKel for the pictures!

Zero—I know how you feel about burnout!

On Yahoo Auction, they are offering a tour of the Roswell set and lunch with Shiri. Proceeds to go to charity. Just thought I would give you guys a heads up...

Here's the link...
http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/49839340

and here's to hoping the winner is a Liz Myther!!

Smiles,
{~}:}

If I were having lunch with her I'd ask:

1. So you're an English major, right? What do you enjoy reading?
2. What's your favorite episode of Roswell?
3. Did you die when Jason sucked on your lower lip in Heat Wave?
4. Did he moan any when you were kissing? (Just trying to get a better sense of the situation)
5. Have you ever had to wear a ski mask in a Roswell episode?
6. Have you aquired a taste for Tabasco?
7. What's your greatest hope for Liz?
8. What's your greatest fear for Liz?
9. What do you feel the chances are for a third season?
10. Do you feel Liz has significant importance to the Alien Mythology, and if so, what is that significance?

Well, there's my first try at 10 questions. Anyone else?

1. tell her how extraordinary a film I thought "I love you to death" was. What a great ensemble! Was that her first movie?

2. tell her that I look forward to seeing her future work. I know it will be great!

About Yvonne White theories: She was supposedly being sent back to England before she screamed/vanished. And I thought Liz was trying to do a sort of British accent. Also, the fact that she vanished when she was scheduled to leave anyway would have provided a good cover if her abduction and/or death was premeditated.

Tasyfa I rewatched "The Balance" today and noticed that Liz was in that vision too! Thanks again for the heads up about it!

Also in The Balance I noticed something about River Dog's name. 'Dog' is 'god' spelled backwards and River Dog explains to them about the balance and it's flow! What do rivers do? FLOW! Pretty cool that River Dog would be an expert (or god) explaining the flow of energy in the balance! Maybe you guys have covered that already but I just got it now.

I also took note of the similarites in the final scene on Liz's balcony and the final scene of EOTW also on Liz's balcony. In both eppy's Max and Liz are talking about their relationship sitting on Liz's lounge chair. And also after Max leaves (TB) and after Max disappears (EOTW) Liz looks up at the sky. In TB she sees the V constellation and in EOTW she sees a shooting star! I'm not sure of my interpretation of this yet. Anyone?

faces@thewb.com
jamie@talk.thewb.com
susanne@talk.thewb.com
...What is the background?

Here's the original of the one I used. I apologize if it's too big,
but just think it's actually 20 light years across and then this will seem like a really tiny picture. It is gorgeous, isn't it?

M17: Omega Nebula Star Factory

This is what the site said about it:

quote:Explanation: In the depths of the dark clouds of dust and molecular gas known as M17, stars continue to form. Visible in the above recently released representative-color photograph of M17 by the New Technology Telescope are clouds so dark that they appear almost empty of near infrared light. The darkness of these molecular clouds results from background starlight being absorbed by thick carbon-based smoke-sized dust. As bright massive stars form, they produce intense and energetic light that slowly boils away the dark shroud. M17's unusual appearance has garnered it such nicknames as the Omega Nebula, the Horseshoe Nebula, and the Swan Nebula. M17, visible with binoculars towards the constellation of Sagittarius, lies 5000 light-years away and spans 20 light-years across.

Now that I see it again, it's kinda funny that it's called the Omega nebula. Omega being the last letter of the Greek Alphabet and usually symbolizing the end of things. And I used it to represent Max more or less mourning the end of his relationship with Liz (or so he thinks ).

Here's my rendition again:

Sweet Dreams!

EVID-YES I TOTALLY RELATE!!!!!

The issue of Tess’s low moral account of sex accounts for who brought her up and I think it would be an excellent character arc for this whole thing to be explored. To Max and Liz, “making love” is of extreme importance, where as Tess feels it’s no big deal. Makes Tess sound more like a Dupe doesn’t it?

What do you RBIer’s think?

Adrien - That is a beautiful picture and wonderful poem!

Alexis - While I have not minded the separation of M and L for growth purposes, I'm a little tired of it. Maybe if some of the loose ends would be tied up, I'd be a bit more enthusiastic and patient. (It doesn't help that we have six weeks to stew!) And I have to agree with Grace Kel - while I like the Tess/Kyle chemistry, I still do not trust Tess. Call it a gut feeling - though I do believe there have been plenty of clues to that effect over time. Many of which have been identified by the wonderful contributors to this thread! Unfortunately, I do not feel Tess' character has been written consistently either intensionally or unintensionally. I also feel there is SO much potential with a strong Max/Liz alliance combined with a wacky Scooby Gang (I adore Mikey G and Maria!). And I believe that potential has barely been tapped into. I guess we still have the rest of the season and HOPEFULLY a season 3 for the writers to wake up and smell the roses.

Okay - back to my self imposed "break"!

Zero
I Shall (Continue to and Always) Believe!

Yes, I accidentally ventured onto the spoiler pages. This thread was mentioned in regards to TPTB sending around false information. Man, we get around. First on thewb.talk mentions they think that Zero is JK and now this!

BTW, I recommend not going on there because they can make your head spin!

Time for my sermonette again - we ARE in re-runs, right?

This is your brain:
This is your brain on spoilers:
Any questions?

This is your brain:
This is your brain on spoilers:
Any questions?

No questions whatsoever, sir!
Sir, yes sir!

Yes, I accidentally ventured onto the spoiler pages. This thread was mentioned in regards to TPTB sending around false information. Man, we get around. First on thewb.talk mentions they think that Zero is JK and now this!

BTW, I recommend not going on there because they can make your head spin!

[/B]
Okay - back too soon! I'm ridiculous!

Alexis - I know we agree! Plus, I love the picture of the Arthurian Liz! I'm dying to know what was said on the Spoiler Board about us! PM me. This thread and all the positive observations are the main things that will sustain us/me over the next 6 weeks!

BEWARE OF SPOILERS! This is your brain on spoilers! (Oh and spoiled lurkers - please do NOT take this personally! )

This is your brain on Mythology analysis!

Okay - bad Zero Must resist!!

Zero
I Shall (Continue to and Always) Believe!

YES - It is international - though not celebrated in the States as it should be! Here's to all the strong and intelligent women out there!

Zero
I Shall Believe!

I must admit, I ventured onto the spoiler board (come on -- we have six weeks and I needed SOMETHING to speculate about)and at first I found a lot about the spoilers to speculate on -- I even went so far as suggesting we have a spoiled Liz mythologist thread -- just for the duration of the hiatus.

However, the spoilers have gotten way out of control, confusing, and impossible to speculate on, IMHO. I wouldn't recommend going there -- although I think some of the RBI's intervention might help some of the more spoiled folks make some kind of sense out of the mess...but still, I wouldn't recommend it. It's crazy and confusing and probably not really all that reality based in regards to what's going to happen.

Anyway, the general gist on the dreamer's spoiler thread is that a lot of them lurk over here, they think we're brilliant , and they generally love our speculations. A lot of our theories have found there way over to that board and are integrated into some of their speculations -- based on the spoilers.

So, there it is. Personally, I would love to see us have a space to speculate about the spoilers, but I was told we couldn't have our own thread. I quickly tired of trying to speculate over there, because the thread has a tendency to be a bit negative -- at least for my taste.

Anyway, I think I'm going to try and stay unspoiled and be surprised about this season's ending. I will say that if any of those spoilers turn out to be true - we are going to have an absolute field day picking the stuff apart. And, we might get some answers to some long standing questions we have!!

Smiles,
{~}:}

Anyways,
Just wanted to let you all know in adjunct with Faile's Season 2 rerun campaign during this 6 week hiatus of Roswell, some of us are doing a campaign similiar to this only with Season 1 episodes. Many of us don't have Season 2 on tape or simiply do not live in the US and are not getting episodes from Season 2 yet. So, to show our support of Roswell and Faile's campaign, for the next five weeks each Monday we'll be watching an episode of Roswell from Season 1. We will follow suit with the season 2 plan and post a discussion thread on Ros 1 and on the WB's board on Monday nights starting at 9 PM. We would love for all of you mythologists to join us on the threads to discuss all the different clues etc., that were discovered in these episodes. Look forward to seeing you there, and I hope you all can participate.

Here is the viewing schedule:

March 12--The Pilot

March 19--285 South

March 26--The Balance

April 2--Blind Date

April 9--White Room

--Dayneen and Loribell

However, the spoilers have gotten way out of control, confusing, and impossible to speculate on, IMHO. I wouldn't recommend going there -- although I think some of the RBI's intervention might help some of the more spoiled folks make some kind of sense out of the mess...but still, I wouldn't recommend it. It's crazy and confusing and probably not really all that reality based in regards to what's going to happen.

Anyway, the general gist on the dreamer's spoiler thread is that a lot of them lurk over here, they think we're brilliant , and they generally love our speculations. A lot of our theories have found there way over to that board and are integrated into some of their speculations -- based on the spoilers.

So, there it is. Personally, I would love to see us have a space to speculate about the spoilers, but I was told we couldn't have our own thread. I quickly tired of trying to speculate over there, because the thread has a tendency to be a bit negative -- at least for my taste.

I know for a fact that all scripts are now printed onto red paper so it cannot be photocopied and sold on ebay. I also heard that all scripts have to be checked out and the borrower has to sign for their script. They are totally responsible for the script and if it appears missing, they are liable.

From my time in LA, and the people is spoke with, a PTB or from second hand information, the general feeling is that they are trying to find the leak. Some spoilers are wrong and intentially so. This is the only way they can identify the leak....

I really don't have a source for this information, so please don't ask, but this was my general understanding/feeling on this topic.

I do know that the production team is concerned about spoilers and to what extent they are trying to stop them is heresy, but plausible.

I am staying away from the spoiler board... There are probably more false ones than accurate ones anyway.

GraceKel, I think that the "dark" side of Season 2 is very realistic--or at least it mirrors the emotional life I've known, and that (and the music) was what attracted me to the show in the first place (and also because I have young people for whom I am partially responsible who believe in the original Roswell event and/or are X-filees). But I fear that the very stuff that makes Roswell 'work' for me might be the kiss of death to the show . If it does continue, I think that Ron Moore moving on to something else is good because I don't think he 'gets it' and so doesn't seem to put forth his best effort with regards the the scifi (e.g. jelly fish).
Similarly, it's nice to have a little space to discuss the show without having a huge adrenalin rush of new stuff to share, but I'm afraid that this 'little space' could become a yawning void that would swallow our passion. You know, that they might just cancel it tomorrow. I remember a line from Laura Ingall's Wilder's journal, On the Way Home about when she thought she had lost her life savings: "It was like stepping off of the top step of a flight of stairs in the dark and finding nothing else there."

reduxiik, good of you to join us, with your first post. (Just watch out -- posting can become addictive....)

Six weeks is a very long time to wait, but there are some things that we could do.

1) Since we have lots of time, a start-to-finish viewing may be in order. I'd like more than an a review of season II. Dayneen, thanks for posting the Season I list. I think I'll do that.

2) I started Joseph Campbell's The Hero's Journey about two months ago and slurped up what I've had time to read! I'm going to start back on it.

3) Tonight is a free night on the calendar, and I'm going to watch Braveheart.

4) Run, Lola, Run would be a good side-reference.

5) Clarke's Childhood's End?

Any other suggestions?

Sorry to all to bring up spoilers and the controversy! I just want the Roswell I fell in love with. I was talking to my roommate about the spoilers (she just shook her head in confusion) and I am afraid that it is turning into Roswell 90210!

I wish I could watch S1, but I let someone borrow them. Of course, I haven’t watched a lot of the S2 eps, so I guess I will watch them again!

How about this for another reading selection?

ITA, I'm all for obstacles etc., but I do not want to see Roswell turn into Days of Our Lives. If I wanted to watch a soap opera, well it wouldn't be hard to find that. I want intriguing storylines, logical drama, and for once an untainted love story. That's all I want from Roswell. It's that too much to ask, no, because we got this in Season 1.

I took notes so here we go...

Qfanny Thanks for sharing some of your inside knowledge. I don't know how the spoiled do it - seems like one way too bumpy a ride for me! I hope they catch the leak, so we can all stop freaking out!

shapeshifter Your quote from LIW hit the nail right on the head for me! btw, my older stepsister is a librarian too!

Zara Those are some great ideas! But like Max I don't want to watch the violence. I've never seen it because all I ever heard about it was that it was a 'great story' but that it was also very violent! So, if you do rewatch please come back with your analyses!

Alexis Glad to see the polls over 87% when I voted it was at 61%!

GraceKel I sooooooooo agree with you! 90210 and Melrose Place have been done. Why reinvent the wheel, right? ...

Give us a story and characters we can believe in, those shows are few and far between! -- In the same way, X-files and Star Trek have been done. (The gandarium reminded me of the Star Trek eppy "The Trouble with Tribbles"! ) I don't want a teen X-files or a teen Star Trek! What I loved about Roswell was getting to know and love the characters and watching how they dealt with their lives - their loves, their hopes, their fears, etc.

In the pilot I loved how we got a glimpse into Max's soul and struggle! He was an alien boy abandoned on a distant planet from his own, fearing the truth about him would somehow be discovered by those who would want to hurt him. He also struggled with not only questions about where he came from and who he really was but what to do here in the meantime. Is it permissible for him to fall in love and pursue that love? What are the consequences either way? I loved "Toy House" and seeing Max and Mrs. Evans' relationship!

What I would love to see develop more in Roswell is to watch the characters deal more with what they have discovered about themselves. We've seen the outward action, but I would like to see more scenes where our characters deal with this information. ARCC touched on this with Max, what responsibilites does Max have in relation to his healing powers! I'd also loved the line where Max says "I am not a king, and we are not at war!" I loved watching him resist this!

Theyey started the series playing on the teen alienation theme. I would like to see them explore the fact that yes they are alien, half-alien, but this world and humanity are all they've ever known. If they ever got to their home planet - whatever it's called - they would feel like strangers too! I want to know how they feel being caught between two worlds!!! Never really feeling at home on earth or home planet x.

My parents were divorced when I was 4 and I spent my childhood going back and forth between houses. It was VERY DIFFICULT for me! I am also adopted and I do like how they touched on Max & Isabel's adoption! I have found my birth mom and found out I have four younger half-sisters, one younger half-brother and another half-brother who died when he was two! This has been so much to swallow for me! My point is that..There is a tremendous amount of material here! Two worlds, half-this & half-that, so much to explore about who they are and where they came from and where they are going - & I'm less concerned with the actual facts than I am with the emotions and dynamics going on inside of them!

*whew* that was very long-winded of me. Sorry. I hope I was clear enough.

Since Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology is a new thing for me, you guys are inspiring some more artwork! If you are interested in seeing whatever I come up with, please let me know.

Have a great Thursday!

I'm working on one now to represent that Liz also has the Royal Seal! If anyone would like to see it --- I'm open for encouragement!!!

I love it!

:::Wishful Thinking selflessly offers to be Max's study partner:::

Shapeshifter- the tape came in the mail today. THANK YOU!!!

I love it!

:::Wishful Thinking selflessly offers to be Max's study partner:::

Shapeshifter- the tape came in the mail today. THANK YOU!!!

quote:Originally posted by Alexis:

I love it!

:::Wishful Thinking selflessly offers to be Max's study partner:::

Shapeshifter- the tape came in the mail today. THANK YOU!!!

In the pilot I loved how we got a glimpse into Max's soul and struggle! He was an alien boy abandoned on a distant planet from his own, fearing the truth about him would somehow be discovered by those who would want to hurt him. He also struggled with not only questions about where he came from and who he really was but what to do here in the meantime. Is it permissible for him to fall in love and pursue that love? What are the consequences either way?

What I would love to see develop more in Roswell is to watch the characters deal more with what they have discovered about themselves.

They started the series playing on the teen alienation theme. I would like to see them explore the fact that yes they are alien, half-alien, but this world and humanity are all they've ever known. If they ever got to their home planet - whatever it's called - they would feel like strangers too! I want to know how they feel being caught between two worlds!!! Never really feeling at home on earth or home planet x.

Yes! Yes! Yes! I agree completely!

BTW, I love manips, especially when they have meaning like Liz’s Importance. One that has Liz with the seal would be superb!

I just got the first half of S1 up until blood brothers. So, I've been sluth'n.

In LN, has anyone else noticed the picture of the Native American woman sitting alone in the desert looking towards the mountains in GC's hospital room?

Also there is a horseshoe above Max's one of Max's bedroom door opening up like this U, and then in another episode, or another scene can't remember which right now, it's over his main bedroom door and Isabel walks underneath it.

Then is 285 South the hidden keyhole in Atherton's is behind a triangle shaped stone. What did we find on triangles before? I've forgotten.

And last, before I have to rush inorder to make it to my class on time, in RiverDog, Did anybody hear what Max said when Eddie left him and Liz near the cave? I'm positive that it was "Freak'n Eddie!" I've forgotten which S2 episode where Liz is in the CD and says the same or similar thing and RD is in the CD. That last line sounds like code! Any thoughts?

Gotta fly!

Six weeks is a very long time to wait, but there are some things that we could do.

1) Since we have lots of time, a start-to-finish viewing may be in order. I'd like more than an a review of season II. [b]Dayneen, thanks for posting the Season I list. I think I'll do that.

2) I started Joseph Campbell's The Hero's Journey about two months ago and slurped up what I've had time to read! I'm going to start back on it.

3) Tonight is a free night on the calendar, and I'm going to watch Braveheart.

4) Run, Lola, Run would be a good side-reference.

5) Clarke's Childhood's End?

Any other suggestions?

Hey Zara, this is a personal suggestion. If you have the time, you should also read "The Power Of Myth" by Joseph Campbell. It's excellent, and while it touches on the Hero's Journey, it also covers other areas of Joseph's amazing thoughts.

I just love the guy.

Anyway, in regards to rewatching episodes -- the only thing that gets me about that, is that all the questions we raise inevitably go unanswered. All of the theories we come up with also turn out to be better than what we are seeing and sometimes it just makes me realize how many missed opportunities there are in the storytelling.

However, I am looking forward to the season finale and I'm guessing that the writers will rise up to the task at hand and give the viewers what they have been waiting for.

Smiles,
{~}:}

However, I am looking forward to the season finale and I'm guessing that the writers will rise up to the task at hand and give the viewers what they have been waiting for.

Smiles,
{~}:}

I landed on The Hero's Journey when the library's copy of The Power of Myth was checked out. I'm very interested in reading it as well. I think his writings are life-changing! I'm looking forward to spending some more time on his work.

I agree with your comments about how revisiting older episodes emphasizes all the unanswered questions. Plus, on the past whenever I've planned a marathon viewing I only get as far as the end of Season 1. There are some great moments in S2 but I have a hard time connecting the S2 storyline with the progression layed out in S1. I repeatedly put in the time on S1 and then chunk it about when I hit So47 in S2.

All that said, I do think it would be worth seeing S2 again, especially EoTW, now that we have some hope that the M/L connection has endured despite the FM hop.

I'll report back on Braveheart this weekend. I'll have my trusty fastforward in hand for the gruesome stuff...

Zara

quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
...I thought geez they should have left just the blue crystals coming out of his belly because that jellyfish was a little campy wasn't it....GraceKel,
I also thought Creeping Crystals would have been better, but thanks for reminding me that Roswell has always been campy, and I just need to enjoy that aspect.

quote:Originally posted by Alexis:
Roswell is at 87% so far. Keep voting! It’s at the bottom left of the screen! http://calendar.thewb.com Didn't have to tell me twice! Now the results are: quote:Felicity 3.13%
Hype! 0.28%
Roswell 91.54%
Grosse Pointe 5.05%

Vihmakass, the online book sellers say the Strugatskii books are "out of print," but they are in libraries. For example: quote:from the Sacramento public library:
Author: Strugatskii, Arkadii Natanovich.
Title: Definitely maybe : a manuscript discovered under unusual circumstances / Arkady Strugatsky and Boris Strugatsky ; translated from the Russian by Antonina W. Bouis ; introd. by Theodore Sturgeon.
Publisher New York : Macmillan, c1978.

and:

Aliens, travelers, and other strangers / Boris and Arkady Strugatsky, et al. ; translated from the Russian by Roger DeGaris.
Publisher New York : Macmillan Publishing, c1984.Both are part of the Series: Macmillan's Best of Soviet science fiction

Adrien - ITA!! Plus, I would love to see your pictures!

Zara - I like your plan - though I tend to rewatch in spurt! Also, I loved Braveheart - when I saw it in the theater, but it is bloody (like Gladiator)! I'm good at watching movies through my figures much to the humor of my husband!

Did anyone else notice when Max walks into the arcade, Liz is playing pinball and they focus on the ball bouncing between three posts as the shape of a triangle?? Maybe this is supposed to represent the love triangle (L/M/T) and the ball is the emotions (ours) being bounced around!

Okay - off to dinner! Everyone have a nice weekend. I will be checking in.

BTW - Had lunch with 6thRock and got to see pictures from the LA party. It looked like fun! I would love to have a Myth party - of course, we would have to have presentations, seminars, etc. !!

Also - all newbies - Welcome!

Zero
I Shall (Contiue to and Always) Believe!

Im book-crazy type person

OK.if anybody need this booktitles list - PM to me.

In the pilot I loved how we got a glimpse into Max's soul and struggle! He was an alien boy abandoned on a distant planet from his own, fearing the truth about him would somehow be discovered by those who would want to hurt him. He also struggled with not only questions about where he came from and who he really was but what to do here in the meantime. Is it permissible for him to fall in love and pursue that love? What are the consequences either way? I loved "Toy House" and seeing Max and Mrs. Evans' relationship!

What I would love to see develop more in Roswell is to watch the characters deal more with what they have discovered about themselves. We've seen the outward action, but I would like to see more scenes where our characters deal with this information. ARCC touched on this with Max, what responsibilites does Max have in relation to his healing powers! I'd also loved the line where Max says "I am not a king, and we are not at war!" I loved watching him resist this!

Theyey started the series playing on the teen alienation theme. I would like to see them explore the fact that yes they are alien, half-alien, but this world and humanity are all they've ever known. If they ever got to their home planet - whatever it's called - they would feel like strangers too! I want to know how they feel being caught between two worlds!!! Never really feeling at home on earth or home planet x.

My parents were divorced when I was 4 and I spent my childhood going back and forth between houses. It was VERY DIFFICULT for me! I am also adopted and I do like how they touched on Max & Isabel's adoption! I have found my birth mom and found out I have four younger half-sisters, one younger half-brother and another half-brother who died when he was two! This has been so much to swallow for me! My point is that..There is a tremendous amount of material here! Two worlds, half-this & half-that, so much to explore about who they are and where they came from and where they are going - & I'm less concerned with the actual facts than I am with the emotions and dynamics going on inside of them!

*whew* that was very long-winded of me. Sorry. I hope I was clear enough.

Since Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology is a new thing for me, you guys are inspiring some more artwork! If you are interested in seeing whatever I come up with, please let me know.

Have a great Thursday!

[/B]

Wow, Adrian, I loved your post. You brought up many interesting points. I especially liked what you mentioned about the relationshp between Max and his (human) mother. I've always thought it would be a really touching scene to have Max's alien mother contact him and Isabel through Mrs. Evan's body (like how Larek does through Brody). Isabel and Max both need to be able to talk to their alien mom again. Isabel's speech at the end of "Surprise" certainly showed that. Katherine Heigl's acting was so great in that scene: Isabel screaming to her mother, it was so heartbreaking: 'I came here because its the only place I ever saw you, I keep holding on to that image, but its fading so fast, I thought you were warm and beautiful, and I even thoguht I looked like you, its not fair, its my birthday (even though she wasn't even sure of her real birthday) we should be together, I need you, I killed someone, an alien, an enemy, does that make it okay? what was she talking about, she said I betrayed my family, is that true? am I a bad person?"
And Max certainly needs someone to talk to- for most of season 2, especially the beginning, Isabel and mostly Michael have been challenging his position as leader, he thinks the one, true love of his life slept with someone else, Nacedo, the one person, uhm, well, alien, who could have taught the pod squad about themselves died in Max's arms, who else is there for him to turn to?
As I said before in Isabel's speech, her and Max, and Tess and Michael, don't even know thier real birthdays, how sad is that? They have only seen their mother once, it wasn't even the real her (she said she took this image because it would be familair to them).
This must also be incredibly hard on their alien-mom. Imagine having to send your children to a far away planet and never seeing them again for 50 years.
I also thought the scene you brought up from ARCC about Max using his healing powers was interesting- how is he supposed to know whats right and wrong, how does he decide who lives and who dies?

p.s. adrian- great picture!

Sorry if this post is nonsense, I'm a little high on cold medicine.

good night all.

Adrian--beautiful pics or fanart and your suggestions about what they should be focusing on ITA. Huggybear, Nemo, Dayneen , Zero, yes we are all in this together LOL.

Metaphysicalgrl-yes enough already with continually piling it on with nothing coming together after all this time, lets have some answers, well at least a few would be nice.

You all might have (probably) discussed this already and I missed it, so If you all know would you Pm me and let me know too. I probably won't be able to finr this thread tommorrow.

Thanks!

previous post:

Ok, I have had this question brewing for a while now, and since we have a few Liz Myther's on the board with us I will ask them.

Ok, behr in mind that I don't have any of the eppy's on tape (will have to rectify that soon, just to poor so far) but,

Does anyone remember from the pilot or the next eppy, when they showed the kids coming out of the pods for the first time, did it show all of the pods together and were there three or four pods in the beginning? I know when Destiny came about there were four, I just wondered if it had always been that way, or if maybe Tess/ Nesado went back and arranged it like that or maybe the set designers. I know all the books and symbols say four pods, but I just wanted to know if there were four in the beginning.

Ok, maybe it's a stupid question, and I'm sure it's something the Liz mythers have already looked into, but I just wondered. I can't remember if they showed the pods at all until Destiny.

Anybody know the answer to this one?

dreamertoo

I'm not sure if you all have seen the update to silverhandprint.com - the media section?

Well, I found something to be very interesting.

Searching for clarity, Wyscarver consulted her personal psychic through the "Psychic Pals Hotline" and was amazed at what she learned. "Romona, my psychic pal, told me that I was possessed by an alien being known as 'Hanar' and that Hanar took me to New York to represent her planet at an interstellar summit, a mission to end a galactic war. I can't say why, but I don't think we had much luck..." Wyscarver worries that something she did may have undermined the summit. "I just don't want these bug-eyed beasties to be ticked off at me is all... who knows what they'd do?"

Wyscarver worries that something she did may have undermined the summit? What did Hanar do that undermined the summit and is this a clue or just another misbegotten dream?

What do you guys think? I haven't rewatched the episode, but Hanar was one of the leader's of the other planets? Yes?

Anyway, of course I can't wait to hear your thoughts...

{~}:}

Wyscarver worries that something she did may have undermined the summit? What did Hanar do that undermined the summit and is this a clue or just another misbegotten dream?

{~}:}

LOL, I dunno if thats a clue but I'm thinking you might be on to something though I cannot think what yet. Thats really funny her "psychic" told her all this stuff and it did happen to her in the show . I dunno not to much into the psychic thing but Hanar was one of the leaders. I'll have to find the transcipts to see which one she was and what she said that might tell us why she thought that .

Shapeshifter : Glad you guys liked my Alien Sex book . Yes it is very doctored indeed

Okay, I'm back now and editing this post rather than posting a new one since we're getting close to 250 and Zero is probably busy with family this nice sunny weekend in the West.

Here's what I posted on the silverhandprint alert thread (which I don't expect to generate much discussion there): quote:silverhandprint.com/media tidbit:

From buried:

"'They started taking Charlie just after he found the silver,' says a neighbor....

"...Mr. Dupree was committed to a mental institution in 1992 and died less than a year later."

Who was "the neighbor" and why did he die a year later?
And it seems the alien abductors are attracted to money (rather than aiding the wealthy abductees in obtaining it after they are targeted for abduction). Maybe that's why Michael instinctively wanted to get rid of the $50K from the Duprees!

2) Clicking instead on EPISODES takes you to a table
http://www.crashdown.com/episodes/ where "Screencaps" is one of the choices. This does not have the cast and party pictures, but has all the episodes, including the most recent. (Note there are also transcripts and reviews.)

Screencaps of the credits are part of this set, either way. Several of them are as you described, Max and Liz seeing each other through the window. Here are two:

Another large collection of screencaps is at theddd.com. The Screencaps index is at:
http://theddd.com/Screencaps.html . This also has a credits/promo's section.

If anyone knows of other notable collections of Roswell screencaps, I would appreciate hearing about them.

2) Clicking instead on EPISODES takes you to a table
http://www.crashdown.com/episodes/ where "Screencaps" is one of the choices. This does not have the cast and party pictures, but has all the episodes, including the most recent. (Note there are also transcripts and reviews.)

Screencaps of the credits are part of this set, either way. Several of them are as you described, Max and Liz seeing each other through the window. Here are two:

Another large collection of screencaps is at theddd.com. The Screencaps index is at:
http://theddd.com/Screencaps.html . This also has a credits/promo's section.

If anyone knows of other notable collections of Roswell screencaps, I would appreciate hearing about them.

Zero--glad to hear you had a great time with 6thRock.

I'm going to check out silverhandprint.com. I'll post more later.

Don't worry about your grammer. I see it is getting better. And in the USA, we have had many people come here who speak English poorly. We are accustomed to it; we understand odd language.

Perhaps, going back to my original theory, the Royal family dates back to before the Antarians fled Earth and colonized Antar. Hence the Royal seal as well as other symbols are from the Earth's view.

I saw Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon last week and thought it was very interesting - had some stuff that would be interesting to see incorporated into Roswell.

In it there is a young girl (the hidden dragon) who has been raised by a evil person to do evil - but she has a great potential to the hero is trying to get to her to "turn her" to good.
There are also two lovers (the warriors trying to "convert" the young girl - they work together as a team) who - because of the past (she had been betrothed to his brother - who was killed) - feel they have to deny their feelings for one another.
I wont give away any of the ending - but two quotes I loved
"Even great heros can be fools when it comes to matters of the heart"
"Repressing feelings only makes them grow stronger".

I would love to see them go in this direction for Tess's character - that she is a "hidden dragon" - raised to do evil (by an evil Nasedo) but with the potential to turn good (and the ensuing struggle/resolution)

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

This has been really bothering me since I rewatched everything last week (the only good part of being sick ). In Balance, Max says that he & Iz wandered around outside at night for a long time before Micahel made his entrance on a rock. And in Michael's flashes, Isabel has short hair--the same short hair that she has in the home videos in Toy House and in Max & Liz's flashes from the Pilot. Now, in the flashes in Four Square--Max, and in Destiny--Isabel, all 3 of the podsters are in the pod chamber to begin with, Isabel has long hair, and when Michael opens the door, it is daylight outside. At no other time is the 6 year old Isabel shown with long hair, except when Tess is present while the flashes are occurring. I know there has been speculation before as to whether or not Max's 4S flashes & Isabel's Destiny flashes were actually Tessovisions not real flashes. Now that I've seen all of these eps, I'm heavily leaning towards the fact that they may be false (though not necessarily from Tess). At this point, I am at a complete loss as to Tess's role; had I seen S1 first, I probably would have <ahem> disliked her as much as many Dreamers still do. But the Tess we're seeing now has done a complete 180° in her character--I mean, in VLV she was downright adorable! I'm all I do still think that the Momogram meant that five people were sent though, which means that Tess is the King's 2nd It would explain her strong powers, at least.

I have some more thoughts, but I'll continue them in another post

roswelldiva RD, I had no idea the "Alien Sex" manip was yours--I thought someone had attributed it to Melodious1. I it it's too cute!
~Tas

Reply by shapeshifter:
...Roswellian translation: 2 orbs over easy with hot sauce

It might be fitting to call such an award the Palomino Prize, in view of this classic:

quote:Originally posted by Palomino: (07-18-2000 06:56 PM,
The Science Fiction of the Toy House, p1)

The windmills. [subject of much speculation since GraceKel pointed out their mysterious prevalence in season 1]
1. They could be symbolic of the four square symbol...
2. It could be like a wheel. The cycle of life...
3. It could be symbolic of their powers....
4. Then again, it could be saying, "Love is in the air, and it's going to hit the fan".

Just finished reading the National Interrogator recently published on the Silverhandprint site! Pretty funny! SO, Here are my observations:

Karen Wyscarver was abducted by aliens in Roundup, Montana - anyone remember where Grant Sorenson wandered? Didn't he steal something from somewhere in Montana? I find it so interesting that a Psychic could know so much from a telephone call! So - she thinks she is fulfilling some kind of mission? Now, who else do you we think has a mission? Oh Right - LIZ!!

Brody was abducted the same year Grandpa Charles Dupree dies - of what? at the age 75 years old. Brody's daughter is 5 (our magic number) at the time of her healing.

5 children were healed by Max at 8:33 PM on the 23rd of December! Numbers, Numbers!

Laurie was abandoned by her father - sounds like Maria! - and orphaned by her mother (how?). Laurie was 16 when committed.

Finally - Cousin Paulie Race was sure clever - he not only figured out the use of the blue crystals, but came up with the same name that the aliens used! Anyone think he was possessed? Like that human-alien peanut butter sandwich analogy! Now - I would like to see a Max/Liz sandwich!

Okay - watching "Chariotts of Fire" - so got to go!

Mods - I won't be back until tomorrow - so please be patient if we go over 250. I will start a new thread tomorrow - late morning. If I do have time, I will check in once more before I go to bed just in case.

Zero
I Shall (Continue to and Always) Believe!

This is another version of Liz's dream from TSAP at gAbby's site ( http://members.fortunecity.com/wsgan/spoilers/tsap.html ) I think it has more emphasis on Liz trying to deal with her "Maxaholism" quote:DREAM 4

Isabel watches from the booth as LIZ works the cafe alone.

A strikingly good-looking man (20s) ---BRAD--- ENTERS the cafe. Liz recognizes him, smiles fetchingly

BRAD: Hello, Liz

He walks up to her, sweeps her up in his arms, lies her back on the counter.

ISABEL: Not bad, Liz. Didn't think you had it in you...

LIZ to Brad) Would you like...fries with that?

BRAD: I know what I want.

He leans down to kiss her, but before their lips touch...

NEW ANGLE

MAX has suddenly replaced Brad. He's inches from kissing her.

MAX: Isn't this what you really want?

Liz isn't shocked by the sudden change, accepts it in a dream logic. They stay close.

LIZ: yes...NO, I don't want this...

MAX: Now you're lying to yourself.

NEW ANGLE

Now Brad is standing on his feet, cradling Liz in his arm. Max stands in front of them both, arm crossed, SHIRTLESS.

LIZ: I don't care. I'm with Brad now.

MAX: Brad doesn't even exist. Besides, you want someone who can do this...

He flicks a finger and rose petals begin to rain down gently. (AWWWWW)

LIZ: Brad...take me away....please....

NEW ANGLE

Now Max is cradling her in his arms, Brad is GONE.

LIZ: (cont'd) Oh God... Zero, we posted at the same time. Maybe Liz's next dream will be about a sandwhich?

courtcita, that's any awfully nice compliment you've given the rest of us. Thank you.

From the 285S Tour, look what CharmedKitten and Behr's Venus and I found at the stone wall that was used in the Summer of 47. This is the same location of Sultan's Palace.

And here's the RBI delegation on the 285S tour, from left to right, Behr's Venus, Qfanny and CharmedKitten: Hope they don't mind. I wonder what the number means (aside from the address)? If you look closely of the decorative board on the door under the number, you can see that there are diamonds with PEOPLE inside of them. What was the octagedron theory again. Is Liz the center of the 8 faces?

I've been lurking here for quite a while, but I've never really had the guts to post before. FF sometimes scares me...too many people, too many viewpoints, sometimes...

I have to say though, that this is my favorite thread to visit- I love all the different theories, and I've even caught myself looking for hints like yours at times (even thought I must admit that I'm more of a Kyle (my favorite character) mythologist than a Liz myther...

I'm gonna go out on another limb and post my first insight....We got to talking about the Bible in one of my classes, and specifically about Mary Magadlene.

Mary Magadlene was one of Jesus' followers, one of the only women. After being healed by Jesus, she dedicated her life to him.

Many new interpretations of the Bible, such as plays and movies like "Jesus Christ Superstar" portray Mary as a prostitute.

After EOTW, Liz's reputation is sullied (by Max's reaction and the rumor at school). And after she was healed by Max, she dedicated her life to him. And she has become one of his most ardent followers, giving up everything (the future,security,etc.) for him.

Tracy

And be sure to visit the WB discussion thread of TEOTW on Monday night to show support for Roswell during the hiatus!

I agree that it's definitely the way Tess is written now, but I actually found her to be consistent with herself since Ask Not, if you can understand what I mean. S&B was my introduction to Tess, and I didn't find out any real details about her S1 character until about the same time that MITC aired (EOTW is what sent me scrambling to the net for info & completely hooked me). Coming at Tess from my perspective, she actually makes a lot of sense to me--I can see her character motivations, etc., and her gradual "sweetening" is consistent. Her behaviour in ARCC makes sense to me, too, though I think she was pretty giddy in VLV. But again, understandable.

What I do NOT understand is who she was in S1. I've seen the Crazy~Destiny run 3 times now, and I am absolutely baffled by the fact that everything she did was just swept under the carpet over the 3 months that school was out (the supposed time lag between D & S&B). When I was only seeing Tess in the context of S2, she made sense to me as a character. When you add in who she was and what she was doing in S1, I'm lost! Obviously part of her change has to do with having a human family now in the Valentis instead of running from city to city with Nasedo, but still, that's not enough to explain everything.

All right, I'm rambling now and probably starting to sound whiny I wish I could reattain the moment of perfect clarity I had the first time I watched S1--I got my tapes on Friday night (a month ago today, oddly enough!) and I watched them all weekend. On Sunday evening is when I watched Destiny, and for a little while, everything that had happened this season was absolutely clear to me, and I could see what JK was trying to do and where he was heading with the story, esp. with Max and Liz. It was too hard to put into words, but I wish I had tried harder b/c I've totally lost that clarity now. And BTW, I wasn't going nuts b/c I know at least one other Dreamer who came at S1 from the same perspective and got the same kind of clear impression of JK's vision--unfortunately, she couldn't explain it either
~Tas

Just finished watching "Run, Lola, Run" - and noticed the swirl not only on the door, but also on the bed sheets!! Cool movie! Glad you suggested it Zara during our forced "break"!

Space cowgirl - welcome! Never be afraid to post - we are a friendly crowd, and most of us adore Kyle - especially this season!

Qfanny - it is so nice to put more faces to names! Thanks! It sounds like you all had a blast down in LA. I hear Big Spam gave a grand tour to a lot of people, too!

Tasyfa - I think - having watched all the episodes in order numerous times - is why many of us don't totally trust Tess. I too can understand Tess' change coming from one POV, but ... there is this Season 1 deception I just can walk away from, and so many loose ends, that .. well.. I think you understand. If I step back, I too can kind of see what the big picture is - if some of our theories prove true, but there are still some major continuity issues this year, plus a shift of focus that hasn't always made sense. That is not to say I still don't love the show! I'm just hoping some of it is tied together, and that we don't get led into a "90210" scenario - because that is not of interest to me at all. I love the sci-fi combined with the strong characters and relationship - that is what I want. I'm rambling now!

Okay - time for a new thread! PLEASE take all discussions to #33 which will be up in about 5 minutes!

Zero
I Shall Believe!