Due to the Length of the Intro - it is being split into 2 posts!

We are known as either the “RBI” (Roswell Bureau of Investigation) or “Mythologists.” And we have all been busy over the ROSWELL DROUGHT watching old episodes, keeping up on commentary, reading the Silverhandprint site, and speculating on new “finds” and observations! There is never a dull moment on this thread, though we would love some new episodes to digest!

Background

We have been dissecting all the Roswell episodes, one by one, season after season (I’m optimistic there will be a Season 3! ), finding “clues” to Liz’s Importance to the Alien Mythology and other relevant topics – and there are a lot of them (WAY MORE than I can ever summarize here!) – and then developing theories and potential storylines based on these (often well hidden) clues! We also look at other “evidence” provided us on the “approved” Silverhandprint site and supplied through the WB site. Anything that is not a “SPOILER” is subject to discussion here – and subject to dissection!

Shapeshifter and Qfanny (loyal Mythologists!) have graciously agreed to set up a single link to the former threads that are available to read (if you have a week or month ). You can find it at the following link http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/index.html (but be patient, they will have thread #34 up in good time ). Starbox does a wonderful job of posting pictures relevant to our discussions up front for reference! I will often describe something that you will have to “view” in StarBox’s picture post! As always – Thanks to everyone that helps make this such a fun (and educational) thread to visit!

Metaphysicalgirl has gathered questions to put to a Set Decorator/Designer/Prop Person from Roswell, since the set decoration, etc. seems so important to our analysis. An “inside” connection to the set supplied our first round of questions to an on-site set director, but due to the set “lock down” we might have to wait until the end of the season to get us some answers! In the meantime, we hope they know of our appreciation, and have to settle for the little bit of information we received noted below! Metaphysicalgirl will continue to gather questions for future attempts, and as soon as we get some responses, we will post them!

Up-Date on our Questions: As I mentioned above, the list of questions were given to the on-site set director for the episode being filmed during the week of 2/19/2001. (???) He was tickled that we were asking questions, and said that he has visited our thread, and is very interested by some of our findings. (“They” are lurking out there!! ) He also wanted us to know that they usually don't have a lot of time to really plan the set for a TV show. They generally only have a few weeks of prep-time. Once chosen, they have to use those designs pretty much throughout the duration of the show. Also a lot of the posters and stuff they use are donations they get from companies. They will use the posters that they think are cool and kind of work with the character. However, Brenden specifically asked for Metallic since he's a really big fan of them. Finally, the on-site set director said that he would give the questions to the head set director and have her answer them as well. He said that she'd get a kick out of it. Of course, now we have to be PATIENT – remember Patience is a virtue!! (THANKS! to our contact who provided me this information!! They know who they are!! ) I wanted to add that in the commentary on “Summer of ‘47” the writers noted that the same sets were used, just ‘redressed.’ So, Valenti’s office was used for WS’s character’s office, Michael’s apt. was used for the girlfriend’s apt. and the Crashdown was used for the Bar. Just in case you didn’t notice – they were trying to draw parallels throughout that episode.

The following is a VERY LONG summary (oxymoron?) of some of the evidence, clues, thoughts, research and theories that have been expressed on the previous threads. I have been trying to incorporate new theories as we move through Season 2 and new clues are unveiled; however, not all clues identified are listed or theories are covered in-depth. (Remember, I – Zero – am a mere mortal with limited human brain capacity, so can only retain so many details!! )

Basic Thesis

Just a reminder - Our basic thesis is that LIZ IS AN IMPORTANT AND ESSENTIAL ELEMENT TO THE ALIEN MYTHOLOGY!

What is Subject for Discussion?

Liz’s importance to the pod squad – and the survival of the human race for that matter - and theories concerning the beings – especially Max - and mysteries swirling around Liz – are what we discuss. So – feel free to join on in, or just lurk! And don’t worry about going off on a tangent – they ALL tend to lead back to Liz’s importance! We are an optimistic and friendly – though seriously anal retentive – group! So – dive in, and join the fun!! But remember – NO SPOILERS! We want everyone to feel welcome!

Liz is Important – The Liz/Max Connection

First – and foremost – the general consensus is that Liz is important to the alien mythology and the pod squad, and that there is more to the Liz/Max connection than a mere attraction by a young boy (i.e., a crush). From that first look – Max getting off the bus in Kindergarten (or 1st grade – time seems to be operating in many dimensions – or is it time zones? - recently ) - Max has been strongly attracted to Liz and felt a special connection to her. Max often makes comments such as “It was You!,” “I’m coming for You!” and “I Believe in You!” that leads us to believe that her importance to him is beyond the bounds of “normal.” Even recently in Liz’s interview on the Silverhandprint site, Liz acknowledges the connection herself! In response to the question: “What keeps drawing you back to Max?” Liz replies:
“..fact that we do have this real connection and there is this fire and this energy between us. You don’t really want to give up on something until it’s reached its full potential! I don’t think Max and I have YET!”
Unfortunately, we don’t know when this interview is supposed to fit in with respect to the current episodes – but give ALL that Liz has been through this season, this is a prophetic and telling statement!

How Liz is important, and what that connection is, is where the fun – and this thread! - comes in. We now know that if things had continued on the “previous” course, Liz and Max would end up marrying in Las Vegas and living happily for a time, but that ultimately all H#** would break loose, resulting in Earth being taken over by their “enemies” in 2014 – all apparently due to the cementing of the L&M connection (and Tess’ leaving the group as a result of that connection) – a connection that Liz has broken by her deception at Future Max’s urging in TEOTW. (Future Max never tells us who the ultimate “enemies” are. We could speculate that they are the Skins, but now that we know there are 5 planets involved (MITC), their “enemies” could come in numerous shapes and sizes from a number of places) Has Liz truly broken that “connection” irreparably in TEOTW, or just temporarily? It appears that Max can’t totally let go of his connection to Liz, and we have evidence continuously throughout later episodes. After events in NY, Max seems willing to give their Friendship another try, and in “A Roswell Christmas Carol,” his turning to Liz for help in his time of need. As Max says in the end – once Liz has helped him overcome his trial of conscience – he “believes in her!” In the commentary on this show, JK & JB discuss how ARCC shows an evolution of the Liz/Max relationship, and note that without Liz, Max acknowledges that he could not become the person he has become. How Liz is his “sane” voice in the chaos surrounding him, and that she is the person he trusts (even with all that has gone on) the most – she is the person who knows him the best. That she is the connection to Max’s ability to be human, mature and alive! Out of the “horses mouth”!

In the Hybrid Chronicles it is obvious that Max still cares deeply for and worries about Liz, but is trying to respect her need to be kept out of “it” – the chaos surrounding the aliens and the consequences of dealing with their “destiny.” But, once again – with the discovery of the Blue Goop – he turned to Liz for help. And as usual, Liz is the one to help move them to the solution to the problem. Though it was a team effort, they all looked to Liz for direction and guidance.

Finally, in “Viva Las Vegas” Max “remembers” them getting married (a Dreamer’s scene)! How? There have been many thoughts – (Zara – this ones from you!) Was the ‘memory” coming from FMax, or possibly FLiz? Was it a subliminal message from the present Liz? They had just been discussing getting married in LV. Was it a flash of destiny? Was it a transcendent memory, meaning he is remembering it from another lifetime? In keeping with the transcendent memory angle, perhaps that spot in Las Vegas is a "thin place." Some people hold that there are physical places of historical/spiritual significance where one is more receptive to the transcendent. Examples might be Iona, Stonehenge, Fatima, Tibet... Okay, it might seem ridiculous to even think of Las Vegas as a thin place, but hey, you can't PICK where the thin place is going to be, it just reveals itself as a kind of opening or portal to another place of connection. Max and Liz being married is one of those anchors. And in this area where chance and prediction and time kind of merge, this event, surfaced like a rock in the middle of a river. Max and Liz are soulmates, connected to each other across time and chance. They are a universal constant. They are each others destiny!

Thus, we believe there is MORE to the Liz/Max connection than just a romantic relationship, as many have always assumed. She is his trusted advisory, his sound of reason, his best friend, she is the yin to his yang (or is he the yin to her yang? ), and she helps him connect to his human side, finding that there is strength in his humanity! BUT don’t believe me – believe what is presented to us in the episodes – it is all there for the finding! Lets go back to the beginning, since few questions regarding that connection have been answered this Season –we have gotten some vital evidence upon which to base our conclusions!

Consequence of the Connection – the Change?

Most believe that when Max healed Liz and then caused a "reverse connection" (Pilot), that something changed in Liz. We now know from the events in MITC that LIZ WAS CHANGED, and is developing powers, but how come? And have the clues been there from the beginning?! How has that change come about? Whether the change in Liz was new or an awakening of something already a part of her is not known. Apparently FMax knew Liz had the potential to “change” since he made the comment that she wasn’t letting it happen, but did he know the true potential of that change and what initiated it or prevented it from occurring? Is Liz’s “change” only a result of Max “bringing her back,” what Ava’s reaction to hearing this news seems to imply – or is there something more involved! Many feel there is something that goes to the core of who Liz is:
· Maybe from a past life on the pod squad’s planet (Antar, though we miss you Twilo!)? (Is she the true love of Max’s previous life? Could she be the “true bride” – only sent on a different ship to prevent easy discovery, with Tess serving as an unknowing dupe. But if so, and she is part alien, why did she disappear in Wipeout? She did cause the Skin’s shed skin to disintegrate, but that could have other reasons for occurring. Maybe she is purely human, but contains the “true bride’s” essence – but in a different configuration than the Hybrid pod squad?)
· Could Liz or her essence have had a previous life encounter with Max’s alien “essence” or human DNA donor here on Earth? Maybe Max’s alien predecessor conducted reconnaissance through possessing a human, and somehow “met” and romanced a predecessor to Liz – but was called back to Antar, leaving his true love behind. Or Max’s human DNA donor had a connection to a predecessor to Liz. Mikey G did portray some of his human DNA donor’s characteristics – why wouldn’t Max?
· Was Liz the original “4th” podster (and Max’s true mate) who “hatched” early, failed to have her alien essence develop completely, and was humanized by her human parents? (Though this seems unlikely now that we know that Tess has a dupe in Ava. But, why did they show that leaking pod in Sof47, and is it relevant to Liz? Could Tess/Ava be a ruse – as mentioned above - to protect the true queen, Liz, from being discovered before she has time to develop her powers that would protect her and her loved ones?)
· Was Liz the "second in command" referred to in the Mom'ogram, who somehow (deliberately?) was separated from the group and sent separately to Earth? (Again this seems highly unlikely after MTD & MITC.) However, Liz is Max’s most trusted advisor, the one most likely to keep him staying the course and keeping him from repeating the mistakes of the past!
· Could Liz be the Trojan Horse – containing something within her of importance to the podsters or their enemies, such as the Key to operating the Granolith – or contain the essence of a Leader, such as part of Max’s alien essence, that draws him to her? (If you watch “Buffy,” think of the storyline with Dawn as the Key sought by Glory!)
· Could she be the 5th Element prophesized about back on Antar? And the reason Earth was chosen as the hiding place for the Granolith and the Royal 4 x 2? Could this explain Ava’s reaction to hearing Liz’s story? Ava had heard this story foretold during her previous life on Antar of a special human who would be brought back to life by their king, and would ultimately be the source of salvation for their world as well as her own?
· Could it just be Liz's extremely advanced human intelligence (she is a self-admitted “nerd”) that "connects" her to Max. (Let’s hear it for Smart Girls! )

These are just a few of the MANY theories offered. The connection that Max had to Liz started the day he first got off the bus in kindergarten (or 1st grade) and saw her, and was awakened in Liz by the healing and reverse connection that occurred in the Pilot. (And would that connection have also existed with Zan if he had ever seen Liz? Zan apparently had been waiting and searching for someone special all his human life – and he never connected with Ava the way one would have expected if she was his mate even though they had (we assume) spent their entire life on Earth – in the NYC sewers - together. I guess we will never know unless Zan could somehow be brought back to life with the healing stones (all 5 of them w/ Liz present) – anything is possible? We don’t know what happened to his body! So, there is a possibility that Zan could show up sometime in a future episode! What is Nicholas was there at the time of the “accident” – and retrieved and healed Zan’s body, and is holding him prisoner? Okay, I guess that’s for another thread! ) Liz seems to have been drawn to Max prior to the healing, too, but figured he was not interested in her. (“Maria, this Face? Max Evans? No Way?” [paraphrasing]) Liz looks directly at Max as he gets off the bus, with a sort of recognition. They obviously knew each other since 3rd grade, and were friends and lab partners more recently. Even Liz mentions how they were good friends before they were a couple in (I believe) MITC. Some have wondered if the way Max held the back of Liz’s neck during the healing could have changed her cerebral cortex – the location that Pierce said the Special Unit had identified as the source of the aliens’ powers – powers that we know are all human (according to Harding in WR). Could the number of connections also come into play into “changing” Liz, or awaking already – yet dormant – powers existing within her? Ava’s reaction to Liz’s story seems to imply that the healing alone was enough for the change – but … what about Kyle (Buddha Boy?), and all the kids in the hospital? There seems to be more to initiating the “change” than just the healing! Though Kyle may develop his own powers someday (though maybe changing TV channels is not one of them ), and so could the kids?

Origin of the Connection – Where is Liz from, really?

Many have wondered about Liz’s origins! A few of the common questions raised include:
· Are her parents her “true” birth parents or is Liz adopted like the Evans kids?
· Did Grandma Claudia have a relationship with an alien that passed something on to Liz?
· Does Liz have a connection to the Indians or an (ancient) alien race?
· Could the aliens have ancient “roots” in the human race?
· Why does Liz look so much like Sheila Hubble?
· How does all this play into Liz’s connection with Max and Liz’s new found “abilities/powers”? (The first of her “powers” appearing to be astral projection.)
· Is Liz totally of human origin or does she have some alien “blood” - literally or figuratively – in her that allowed for the change to occur?

We know that Liz’s cheek cells differed from Max’s in the Pilot, BUT we did not see what another “human’s” cheek cells looked like, so it is possible that Liz’s cells are different, too. (Though a doctor probably would have picked up on this by now; however, what if there are many variations of cellular structures in the alien worlds, and Liz matches one of these?) Could Liz be descended from an alien race that colonized Earth thousands of years ago? (This is my personal favorite theory!! ) Or as also been suggested, could the aliens be decedents of an ancient human civilization that left Earth to escape a catastrophic event – such as the asteroid that some theorize caused the extinction of the dinosaurs – leaving behind a remnant group of humans that survived and evolved into the present day humans. (This would explain why the Antarian symbol is the “V” shape that is only apparent from our solar system, and would not look the same from theirs. Maybe they saw the far off galaxy as their future home?) There seems to be many clues that point to one of these possibilities – but nothing definite. We now know there are at least 5 planets involved in the Antar conflict, each with (presumably) at least one race of inhabitants – any one of which could have come to Earth to colonize years ago or be descendents of ancient Earth beings that went there to start a new civilization. These races could be of common decent, or there could be many variations. We know from White Room that the alien that was studied had a cerebral cortex similar to ours (humans) and did not have a bone structure like ours – thus, Pierce’s shock that Max did. Could the similarities that the alien had be due to a common ancestor to humans – one that traveled to Earth many years ago either colonizing Earth or intermingling with the humans here? We don’t know for sure that the alien that was studied was a shapeshifter – we just assume it was, but it could have been another type alien, different from the shapeshifters, that was on board the ship (or another ship that crashed). We also know that the Skins (who are NOT Skins on Antar – only on Earth – so how did Nasedo know what they called themselves?) share powers common to the pod squad whose powers are all human. Why are these powers so similar if they don’t have a common ancestry? Does this mean that the beings that are Skins are from the same race of beings that the essences of the podsters are from? Will humans – like Liz – be able to eventually acquire some of these powers (even without being “healed” – but solely through evolution)?

Rath sarcastically comments about how hard it is to travel through space to Earth – thus the need to possess humans long-distance – but the podsters obviously got here somehow (and fairly quickly if the comments concerning the warring for 50 years is correct, unless an Earth year is different than an Antarian year - I will explain this if you don’t get what I mean – just ask) – so travel to and from Earth must be possible and not unreasonable from a “time” point of view. Could that ancient race somehow be connected to the podsters’ Antar predecessors from long ago? Could Liz and Max have a common ancestor – from long, long ago? (AND I’m not talking incest here – just a common ancestor like all humans do!)

Granolith – How does it fit in?

We know that the Granolith CAN be used as a time travel machine, but this is NOT its intended purpose (based on comments from FMax to Liz). What is its intended purpose? Whitaker and Courtney seemed to think it was a means to their salvation – but why? It is obviously of great importance! Could the Granolith be like a Holy Grail of the V constellation? The “Holy Grail” was meant to be found by a man (or woman) with a pure heart who would use it to feed the hungry and heal the sick, and with it would bring peace and happiness to the land. So – whose heart is the purest in Roswell? Could it be Liz? The Granolith could be like Excalibur from the King Arthur tales, to be used as an instrument of the righteous, by a good man (or woman) for a good cause. So – who fits that description? Max? Did you see the reaction of the other “leaders” when informed that Kivar was not in possession of the Granolith, and that it was on Earth under Max’s guard? If it is only a transport system, I doubt they would have had such a concerned reaction – so there must be more to the Granolith than that. Some have speculated that it might be the energy source for a hidden ship – which it makes sense that a ship for return to Antar would be hidden “in plain sight” somewhere in the Roswell! But, I think it is more than a mere power source – though maybe a power source in the Grand sense of the term!

Could the Parkers (who have resided in Roswell for 4 generations) be the prophesized protectors of the Granolith, or could the Indians in the area be such protectors? Liz has yet to see the Granolith. Maybe it will react when she enters it. Maybe Liz holds something within her that is the key to the operation of the Granolith! Was the Granolith used by others than FM to travel in time? Apparently Liz and future friend Serena were the ones to make it work as a time machine – so did others have a chance to use it this way before their discovery? So, many questions – still! … ! The speculation continues! Oh, AND Why hasn’t Max asked Liz point blank how she knew about the importance of the Granolith?! Umm…..

Recently, Metaphysicalgirl posted some wonderful information about Einstein’s Light Cone – which deals with past, present and future time – and looks, in graphic form, just like the Granolith. There has to be a connection! But – I’m going to deal with this below – so keep reading!

Also, Donna 2001 mentioned that the Granolith could be a device designed to harvest crystal power. Atlanteans used “pyramids” to utilize the power of crystals to heal, send and transmit messages, and travel across space. Crystal power as the people of Atlantis used it would also be more than powerful enough to provide energy for time travel. From TEOTW we know that it was crystals that “powered” the Granolith – and Liz seemed to help activate it with her outreached hand – so crystals and Liz seem to play an important part in operating the Granolith. C. Mccoy add that the legend says that Atlantis was destroyed by the gods they worshipped because they got too big for their britches – could the “gods” have been aliens that destroyed Atlantis and stole the knowledge of the Granolith? Again this points to alien contact with ancient human civilizations. Also, Donna added that a lot of the psychics that told of Atlantean civilization also said they had a "Great Crystal". This Crystal "was housed in a special building oval in shape, with a dome that could be rolled back, exposing the Crystal to the light of the sun, moon and stars at the most favorable time". The Crystal's room was also "lined with non-conducting metal or stone, similar to asbestos or bakelite, a thermosetting plastic." Again, if you look at the picture, it looks like the room is insulated with some special material. The Crystal itself was huge in size, cylindrical in length, and prismatic in shape, cut with six sides." This doesn't describe the Granolith exactly since it's an inverted cone, but it could be used as a basic idea for the Granolith's shape. Besides, maybe the Atlanteans copyrighted their design. Finally, Donna added that The Great Crystal was also responsible for Atlantis' destruction since it fell into the wrong hands. "Those greedier for more power, and of less spiritual fortitude, tuned the energies of the Crystal to higher and more destructive frequencies." Was this the fate that Future Max warned Liz about if the granolith fell into the wrong hands?

Destiny – Liz and Max!

Though much is made of Max’s Destiny being Tess {I’m no longer going to use the snake sign for Tess since attending a Reptile seminar and learning Snakes are our friend! Anyone have a sign for a rat?}, many of us wonder if Liz is actually his Destiny due to the use of the Human DNA and where it came from, or some past alien connection or other prophecy. The use of that human DNA could have totally altered the previously “planned” destiny – if we are to believe the Mom’ogram, which is still questionable! There is also much thought given to whether the alien Max played out his original “destiny” on Antar when killed in the conflict that envelopes that place, and that now has an entire new “destiny” that includes Liz – one that could not have been anticipated by his home planet creators OR well planned out knowing that a “human” alliance would be necessary to save both the podsters’ people and the human race. (I really like this theory too! ) Many posters have wondered “Why?” send the Hybrid pod squad (in duplicate form) to Earth if there wasn’t some benefit to being Human and on Earth. Out of all the planets in the Universe – why ours?? Obviously, distance from their home planet was not one of the benefits since the aliens that came to be known as the Skins were able to follow a mere three years later. Could the Max/Liz alliance be foretold in an ancient Indian and/or alien prophecy? (Another one of my personal favorite theories! Is she the necessary “5th Element? See below.) This would explain Ava’s reaction. Maybe she had “heard” the prophecy? (I am ignoring the cut scenes that Rooney posted that explained that the Dupe’s shapeshifter had warned that anyone they brought back would be changed, not necessarily for the better, because if it is not aired, it might not be the way the writers/producers have decided to take the show.) Zan’s “searching for someone” that Ava spoke briefly about, also seems to imply that he felt someone special was out there that he was meant to connect with – maybe Liz or Serena – I guess we will never know unless he is “brought back” somehow.

Most of us draw a clear distinction between someone’s “destiny” and “duty.” We – mostly – also believe that by using human DNA for the pod squad, and the fact that they were raised as humans, brings the issue of “free choice” and “free will” into play. The continuing debate of “nature” vs. “nurture” also comes up here – and is a hot topic in the news right now with the publishing of the Genome Project! And is the pod squad’s “nature” completely “alien” given that all their powers are (supposedly) “human” according to Harding. (I’m not going to get into it in here – but the fact that the Skin’s powers are similar to the pod squads’ powers – which are advanced human powers – which are supposed to be similar to the powers they had on Antar seems to imply that humans must be capable of the these powers someday and have a common ancestor with the Skins and pod squaders in the distant past – Ummm …! ) Also, some of that “nature” has to be human or else Mikey G would not have developed some of the same mannerisms that his human DNA donor – Grandpa Dupree – had. The Hybrid Chronicles, though not answering the question of “Why human DNA was used?”, did answer the question of how it was used – with Larek’s cryptic description. The aliens would have had to have firsthand knowledge of humans in order to find that a genetic defect existed that they could take advantage of through the creation of a bonding material – Gandarium (or Blue Goo as we so fondly call it).

Watching the difference between the two pod groups truly brings the “Nurture” element to the forefront. (Though I’m going nowhere near the question of “Why would anyone leave the Dupes in the sewers of NY, and how did they never get detected?” We’ll let other threads deal with that topic!) There has also been an excellent analysis of what “essence” truly means, and can a being’s destiny or soul follow the transfer of one’s “essence.” Could the essence of one being have been split between two beings – Max and Zan (and Liz)? Also, does one’s memory follow one’s essence? Tess seems to think it does, but … why is she the only one with these memory retrieval abilities among the podsters and her memory retrieval does not seem very complete! She also mentions this in the recent “interviews” on the Silverhandprint site, but the audience seems to be totally in the dark here. (None of us are too fond or trusting of Tess, and that distrust only seems to be increasing with time – though TPTB seem to be softening her character with the Kyle interaction and most of us have enjoyed her in this role – though even that does not always add up and seems a bit forced!) Though the Dupes do seem to have memories of their past lives – at least Lonnie appears to - we do not know how much of this was taught them by their shapeshifter/guardian. Also, are the visions Max’s previous alien being’s memories (like that flash of a weird skinned cow’s head he gets before confronting Brody), or are they coming from someone (i.e., Tess, another shapeshifter) or somewhere (i.e., Granolith, Antar) else? We now know Max has the V formation (the royal seal) tattooed on his brain! (The “Third Eye” he teased Liz about while waiting in the Eraser Room to observe Topolsky in Season 1? Maybe he wasn’t aware of just how accurate he was – see the descriptions of Chakras below!) What else is stored deep within Max, and can he get to the point he will be able to freely access and prevent having it MRd out of him? And has Tess used her powers to influence what Max and the other podsters “remember”? AND what is stored deep within Liz, waiting for the appropriate time to be released??

There have also been many wonderful discussions concerning what "destiny" truly means, and how the environment (the "nurture" argument) can affect one's destiny. Just look at the Dupes if you have any questions! Also, is history “destined” to repeat itself – an important issue now with the introduction of the Vilandra storyline and the small amount of what we know of past podster actions. Liz has prevented the past from repeating itself in MITC - Zan was killed through treachery on Antar, then New Zan was killed through treachery again in NY, but Max (a Zan Hybrid) survived due to Liz’s new found power and intervention! As Future Max emphasized, and Max has commented many times: “We make our own Destiny!” Maybe yes, maybe no?? Maybe they make their own destiny with a little help from their Human Friends!

Finally, as was noticed from Monsters and "future week" – there is a prominent poster reading "You cant choose your circumstances but YOU CAN CHOOSE to overcome them."

Follow Your Heart

Following one’s heart has been a focus in both seasons. Grandma Claudia told Liz to promise to always follow her heart wherever it leads her (LN), and then Liz followed her heart and believed Max when Tess showed up on the scene (TLV). Maria tells Max to follow his heart (AN), like all the great leaders have. Does this mean that by following their hearts Max and Liz will not only turn out to be great leaders, but will eventually be led back to one another? Given the current strain on their relationship, Max will have to follow his heart in order to be led back to Liz. He has already begun the journey with his decision to be her friend once again (MITC, ARCC and VLV). He has even stated that he believes in Liz, and though this is meant more in a friendly way than a romantic way (see the commentary by JK & JB re: ARCC), it is a sign that Max is following his heart back to her! But Liz’s heart seems to be in a state of confusion with the introduction of Sean! But maybe, just maybe, her interactions with Sean will only convince her heart more than ever that Max is her true soulmate! VLV seemed to bring them together – though not completely – but how could Max ignore the wedding vision?? Finally, following one’s heart is a sign of the “intuitive” as opposed to the “intellectual” which is truly significant when you read the findings of Metaphysicalgirl on Chakras below.

Symbolism – WE Do Not Ignore Anything!

The symbolism throughout the both seasons is incredible – whether meant to be or not! (WE love the Set Decorators! ) I can only touch on some of it here, but here are some examples. Max changes his cards from a royal pair to two diamonds so that Liz’s Dad (who is asking Max what he is hiding!) can win the round of cards. The two diamonds have popped up again recently on the beer Michael holds in Sof47, and prominently in the background at the Deluca Residence! Are Max and Liz the two diamonds hiding in plain sight? Is it “in the cards” as Lonnie says? Once you notice it, the diamond shape shows up often and everywhere (e.g., Valenti’s front door, Michael’s wallpaper).

We often look for “V”s, but as SweetJo noted - two “V”s make a diamond <>! Then Metaphyical took that another step – If you look at a diamond, which the Granolith definitely looks like, it is made up of many different V's. (See the picture of a diamond!) She then research octahedrons – which are 2 four-sided pyramides attached at the square bottom. If you connect 5 of these – you get the shape of the alien communicator! She then looked up Fluorite Octahedrons since they kept being mentioned, and it turned out they are used for Balancing!! Fluroite helps one to balance and stabilize the emotional, mental and physical bodies. Isn’t it amazing what you learn here!!

Eagles and horses also seem to show up often – and again, we can tie them to Liz and Max – the one of the most notable examples being the Indian myth that states that the eagle feather needs both sides to be “in balance.” (More tie ins to eagles under Chakras below.) Max and Liz must follow their hearts to each other to find that connection and balance! Liz could be the Trojan Horse in which something of great importance is hidden. There is a prominent picture of a Ship between Max and Maria when they are discussing his love for Liz. The old Scandinavian tale of the ghost-ship, on which Wagner based his score "The Flying Dutchman," symbolizes the quest for fidelity in love. In desperation the Dutchman wanders the seas, hoping to meet the woman who will be eternally faithful. Senta, emotionally absorbed by the same ideal, swears that she will be faithful to the Dutchman unto death. However, in doing so, she betrays her fiancé Birk and suffers the same damnation as the Dutchman she was trying to save. The Dutchman puts out to sea, but his vessel founders, while Senta leaps from the rocks and is drowned. HOWEVER - the pair are now seen RISING from the now-CALMED waters, TRANSFIGURED and REDEEMED by their SACRIFICE. Salvation is not an impossibly idealistic dream, but exists in the courageous acceptance of reality.

Red roses (love) are thrown by Max to Liz, than changed to White roses (peace) at the last minute in an episode (TEOTW) that Liz must sacrifice her love for Max to ensure peace on Earth. Yvonne “White” was the nurse that disappears in Summer of ’47. And there is another White that shows up on the Silverhandprint site! Max lights a “white” pinecone in ARCC. The ancient Greeks and Assyrians viewed the pinecone as a symbol of masculinity because of its phallic shape, and it represented both fertility and immortality. As the emblem of Artemis, it represented feminine purity. It was also the emblem of the Roman goddess Venus. In Christianity, the pinecone forms the crown of the Tree of Life. Because of its swirling form, it is associated with dynamic generative and cosmic power. Here we see Venus is mentioned and also the Tree of Life (remember the women on the reservation told Liz that was what the symbol was on the necklace). Also feminine purity seems to play an important role for Liz at this point. (Thanks Evid!) (And this is just the tip of the iceberg! We go on for pages about this stuff!)

Then there is the Dragon that has been prominent on Liz’s window this season – though it was present last season. We were in the "year of the dragon." Here are some Dragon “meanings”:
- In the Chinese Horoscope, the Dragon is in the FIFTH ranking order.
- The Dragon's corresponding western sign is ARIES.
- The Dragon’s ruling planet is VENUS.
Although Liz herself doesn't seem to be born in Year of the Dragon, it does seem the Dragon symbolism is most often made with her and only her (unless dragons have been popping up on other characters’ windows?). But since it was the year she discovers that she had “powers,” it is reasonable to think of her as being “reborn” in the Year of the Dragon … as the Dragon. (Thank You Meloudious 1, Starbox and Bluecornmoon, Charmed Kitten for your thoughts on the Dragon!)

Peej recently added to our Dragon knowledge with the following - Flaming dragons often guard caverns, to prevent their desecration by the greedy and to offer their treasure to those who are worthy. The dragon brings vitality, enthusiasm, courage and increased ability to overcome obstacles and to find the energy needed to cope with life’s problems. Having the powerful fire dragon as an ally will align you with the qualities of leadership and mastery. With care, the dragon will fuel your inner fire, which can be directed and channeled with laser-like precision to help you accomplish tasks and achieve objectives. Okay – that definitely sounds like the Liz we know!

Then there is the Arthur C. Clarke book, “Childhood’s End” that is found in “Four Squares” (Thanks reguru!). Following is a summary written by a reader on Amazon – a coincidence? “It is ...in this book the "Overlords" are a mysterious, powerful, but ultimately tragic group of beings that have vastly potent minds, but that cannot undergo the spiritual metamorphosis that would take them into direct communion with the sort of Godhead that directs their (and human) destiny. I liked Clarke's ideas about utopia, which is more or less what the Earth becomes after a few generations under the guidance of the Overlords. He seems to have had a lot of fun playing with ideas about future art forms, for example, among other things. However, this utopian society is doomed, because of an unforeseen, quantum leap in evolution, that turns out to be an evolution of the communal spirit. Clarke has a lot to say here about what connects us to each other, as human beings. Are we all linked with some higher being at the level of spirit, in the manner that islands would be revealed to be all linked, if one were to somehow drain the world's oceans? Or is striving toward a planned, ordered, social utopia, with allowances made for developing all of every individual's gifts to the fullest possible degree, the best way to relate to each other?...” Interesting??

Stars show up often, both the five-pointed and the six-pointed star. It turns out that the six-pointed star, which is often linked to Judaism, has many other meanings. In the Middle Ages, for example, alchemists used it to symbolize the "quintessence," and "quintessence" is another word for "fifth element." Alchemists also believed that the symbol of two overlapping lines with four arms of equal length had special meaning. We see many variation of this symbol in Roswell – one being the four pods connected in the center. Alchemists believed while each arm stood for an element (earth, water, fire, air), the point at which the lines of they intersected represented the fifth element. From their point of view, the fifth element was basically the intangible thing that makes up a human soul. Remember when Max tells Liz in Destiny: "Knowing you has made me human." In certain branches of science the diagonal cross symbolizes crossbreeding (hybridization) between two species or races. It is sometimes associated with Christ, and in ancient Chinese, it stood for the number 5. (Thanks Czech Please!)

There are lots of other symbols and clues to pick up on! Coincidence?? Probably some are, but not all of them – JK and RM are too intelligent and clever for that!

Chakras

The following was dug up by Metaphysicalgirl, and it is wonderful! (Thanks Met! All the credit goes to her!) Chakra is a Sanskrit word meaning wheel, or vortex, and it refers to each of the seven energy centers of which our consciousness, our energy system, is composed. Now think about the picture of the circle that the gang stands around (without Liz) in Balance to save Mikey G (Season 1)! There are only five radii to this circle, not seven like the Chakras, but the fact that the alien balance is visually represented by a wheel or vortex - in this case Mikey G being the vortex or center of the wheel - is worth pointing out.

Now, lets look at what Met found about Chakras, The Royal Seal and the Balance. Is it just a coincidence that the Royal Seal is placed where Max's Ajana Chakra would be? The Ajana or Third Eye[b] Chakra is located between the brows in the inward, center of the forehead. (See – maybe that little aside by Max about the “third eye” had more meaning than we all thought!) Its name means command, perception, knowledge and authority.
It is the Sixth Chakra, and its Archetypal identity is oriented to self-reflection. This brow chakra or third eye center is related to the act of seeing, both physically and [b]intuitively. As such it opens the psychic faculties and the understanding of archetypal levels. When healthy it allows us to see clearly, in effect, letting us "see the big picture." The symbol used for this Chakra is includes a circle with an equilateral triangle in the middle. There's that V shape again...the triangle...the Granolith.... There is a picture in StarBox’s photo montage that is scary in its connection to Roswell. It looks like max with an eagle spread in flight across his brow and the swirl at the point of the Third Eye! Now that is weird!! Maybe the writers are doing their homework!

These Chakras, or energy centers, function as pumps or valves, regulating the flow of energy through our energy system. (That sounds a lot like the Balance described by River Dog!) The functioning of the Chakras reflects decisions we make concerning how we choose to respond to conditions in our life. We open and close these valves when we decide what to think, and what to feel, and through which perceptual filter we choose to experience the world around us. Given these definitions and explanations, it makes sense that there is some relationship to "The Balance" and the location of the Royal Seal on Max's crown.

The symbol for the 4th Chakra, or the heart Chakra looks like a circle with a six-pointed star in it. Think Liz!
Chakra Four represents air and social identity, and is oriented to self-acceptance. This Chakra is called the heart Chakra, and is the middle Chakra in a system of seven. It is related to love, and is the integrator of opposites in the psyche: mind and body, male and female, persona and shadow, and ego and unity. A healthy fourth Chakra allows us to love deeply, feel compassion, have a deep sense of peace and centeredness.
How Liz is that? She is the Ying to Max's Yang (or vice versa!)

So what started all of this speculation on Met’s part about Chakras was this book called “Chakras and their Archetypes, Uniting Energy Awareness and Spiritual Growth,” by Ambika Wauters. The premise of the book is that this author, through the course of her work, became aware of a strong connection between Chakras and the archetypal roles that people play out in their lives. As we all know, archetypes play a huge role in mythology...and Roswell! - a mythological story full of metaphor. In this book the author presents a study of each of the seven Chakras and their related archeytpes, both negative and positive. In the case of the Brow Chakra, or the Aaja Chakra, the location of the Royal Seal or the Third Eye, the positive archetype associated with it is the Intuitive, and the negative is the Intellectual. The Intellectual rationalizes, intellectualizes and theorizes it's way through life, relying on plans, maps and future outcomes to control our lives. Hmm....sound like anybody we know? I think Liz definitely embodies some of the Intellectual archetype, and I think one of her biggest challenges since the Pilot has been learning to let go and follow her heart, and to embody more of the "Intuitive" archetype. Max brings this out in her. The Intuitive knows about the necessity of experiencing change and sometimes the terrible emotional stress that accompanies it in order for people to grow. (This was taken word for word from this book -- does anybody recognize Max from the Eraser Room?) The Intuitive lives from a place of deep trust, which requires an impeccable sense of trust and love for life to know that it will see you through painful and difficult times. The Intuitive archetype has these qualities as well as patience and faith. It knows that things are not always what they appear to be on the surface and it accepts both the fragility and strength of human nature. When talking about Balance, it seems this is just another example of how Liz and Max balance each other out. If you think of the Royal Seal metaphorically, in this case as being the symbol of a King, or leader, and take into consideration it's physical location on Max's body...and you think about Max and Liz, it seems that they each had a huge part in bringing out the other aspect in each other's personality so that the brow Chakra (the royal seal) would be in balance. Maybe Max needs Liz to be a better King than he was on Antar? Again, there is that Yin/Yang...soulmates stuff! Liz, before Max healed her and revealed her secret, was definitely a girl in control. She knew what she wanted and how she was going to get there. Max changed everything about that when he healed her. Max trusted his Intuitive side to heal Liz. Why? "It was you!" This initial event exposed him, and ultimately resulted in Max being forced to confront the fact that he was engineered. There was a plan and a purpose for his existence, as well as the other podsters. During the course of Max's Hero Journey, Liz has often been the catalyst, or the voice of reason, leading them to solve the problem and move onto the next adventure. The Intellectual balancing out the Intuitive. It was the Roswell writers who brought in the whole Kyle-Buddha angle, so they've got to be aware of some of this stuff, right?

The Crown Chakra – Sahasrara - above the ajana lies the "thousand petalled lotus" where the three principal arteries of the subtle body come together. Here is where the final expression of kundalini awakening achieves the goal of the union of opposite polarities, the wedding of Shiva and Shakti; male and female; electric and magnetic, solar and lunar. (Sound familiar RBI's?) The picture that went with this Chakra looked just like Liz with the image of a bird rising behind her! Maybe this doesn’t mean anything, but the similarities, and symbolism are astounding. Think about it - the third eye is the center of psychic powers and higher intuition, you can receive guidance, channeling and tune into your higher self. This is the center that enables you to experience telepathy, astral travel and past lives. All of the podsters’ "powers" are kind of psychic in nature. Think about it...even Liz's newfound powers are as well. (And we still don’t know what all her powers are??) In regards to the Granolith, we have already speculated that the Granolith is an energy source... even the shape of the Granolith suggests a pulling down of energy from "up there" and bringing it down to earth.

Which brings us to:

Einstein’s Light Cone

If you grab the center of the “Balance” wheel – the vortex – and pull up, what you get is a cone shape. If you take two cones and stack one on top of the other with the points touching – you have the visual representation of Einstein’s Light Cone, and something very similar to the Granolith! The Light Cone is a mathematical model that neatly encodes this causal structure of Einstein’s Spacetime. Each event in Spacetime has a double-cone attached to it, where the vertex, or tip, corresponds to the event itself. By convention, “time” runs vertically in all of the diagrams. The upward-directed cone opens to enclose the directions pointing towards events to the future of this event; the downward-directed cone directions pointing towards events to the past of this event. (Eyes glazed yet? Hope not! ) Now doesn’t this seem connected to what Liz and Serena might have found about the Granolith that allowed Future Max to travel back in time???

Nemo added to Met’s “Light Cone” information, but pointed out that the story departs from the usual physics of the Light Cone in using more-or-less instantaneous communication from astronomical distances (as for the alien summit), contrary to the light speed limit. (He was not faulting the story for this; just pointing out that this story makes some of its own rules that may surprise us at any time.)

Chariots of Fire – Liz’s Necklace in VLV

Many of us notice the unusual necklace – at least for Liz – that Liz wore in Viva Las Vegas. It looked like a stagecoach or coach like Cinderella. Oh course, we can’t let such – at least to us – an obvious clue go unnoticed. Cinderella has much symbolism that connects it to Liz, the most obvious being the transformation and change. But StarBox did her research and here is what she came up with! The chariot represents control - but "hard control" (that is control that takes effort and discipline). The chariot should be drawn by horses, though StarBox found a Tarot card that showed it pulled by sphinx. The card shows that the animals to be pulling in opposite directions. In between them on the chariot are the letters "SM" which stand for the alchemy elements Sulfur (sulfur=Venus=Liz) and Mercury (mercury=the sun=Max). (Sulfur has been connected to Liz a number of times, and also to Antar!) The card states: "It is the person who has overcome opposition and by strength of will brought together contrary tendencies. We are in the sphere of personal action set in space and time. Calamity has been avoided, the man (or woman) has taken themselves in hand and is the triumphant master of their fate." Doesn’t this sound very close to where Liz thinks she is right now - after TEOTW she has "avoided calamity" and through "hard control" and "strength of will" is doing what she believes she has to do.
But here is the important thing to note - the chariot also suggests a person who only THINKS they have control. Now doesn’t that sound like Liz?? They are oblivious to the fact that unless they steer correctly - they will run into the 10th card - which is The Wheel of Fortune. One of their animals is steering towards it and on some cards one of the chariot wheels is shown in profile - foreshadowing the Wheel of Fortune. The Wheel of Fortune (which BTW - is shown in Roswell with all the wheels! Think the Balance circle discussed above. It looks just like a Wheel of Fortune - and StarBox believes it is related to Tess, noting that there is a prominent wheel in Wipeout (right after the Max/Liz breakup and Tess is shown talking to Max in the Crashdown in TEOTW with the same huge wheel next to her). This card represents a "feeling bound to Destiny" (There is that connection to destiny again!) It also can represent death and rebirth in an endless cycle of fate (our “Run, Lola, Run” analogy – read more below!). "The Wheel of Fortune also represents unexpected encounters and twists of fate. You can't predict surprises; you can only be aware when one is circling around. Indeed, Card 10 often suggests wheel-like actions - changes in direction, repeating cycles and rapid movement. When the energy of the Wheel arrives, you will feel life speed up. You are caught in a cyclone that may deposit you anywhere. ‘Round and round and round she goes, and where she stops, nobody knows.’" SO – as StarBox noted - if Liz is not careful, her "hard control" is going to run her smack into the wheel of fortune - where history/destiny will just be repeated with the same disastrous results. (Isn’t this stuff so cool! ) On the other hand - the second horse or sphinx in the picture StarBox provided is headed toward the Hierophant or Pope. This card represents the attainment and transmission to a group of Secret Knowledge. Belonging to a group and working with the group towards a higher cause is emphasized by this card - as is the connection/relationship between heaven (the universe) and earth. Okay – again – this stuff is sooooo cool! Thing of how successful the Scooby Gang is when they work together, and Liz has Secret Knowledge – imparted on her by Future Max about the Granolith. She might also be the keeper of other Secret Knowledge that we don’t know about yet, and the connection of heaven to earth – the connect of Max and Liz! Totally amazing find by StarBox! She also noted that Liz needs to steer clear of the Wheel of Fortune and Destiny and Attain Some Hidden Knowledge!! Then she will be able to rejoin and guide the Scooby Gang (they will finally get their "plan"), and they will be able to work together for the higher cause. Wouldn’t that make for a wonderful 3rd Season!! Whew! All that from a little ole necklace - just goes to show - it ALL comes back to Max and Liz!!!

The “Bride” – will the real one please stand up!

In the Mom‘ogram, many have wondered if the reference to Max’s young “bride” has to be to Tess (The Evil Shape Shifter – Grace Kel )? OR could it be referring to Liz who was also standing right there? AND Why do they always use the word “bride”? Was the marriage never completed, or were they killed on the day of the wedding? (Larak mentioned attending Max’s wedding, and never mentioned that the slaughter occurred that day; however, he never acknowledged Tess as Max’s mate even though she was standing right there?!) Though many seem to accept that “bride” probably is referring to Tess, many wonder why they would send his bride with Max in the first place, especially if everything ended so horribly? Was Tess sent solely to provide a “mate” for Max (please – no gagging :vomit: allowed on this thread), or was there another purpose for her presence? Why send a mate, unless the goal was to produce offspring and successors to the throne. What if Tess was sent to deceive the enemy, and the Real Bride was sent in a separate ship – and somehow the Real Bride’s essence ultimately ended up in Liz.

Future Max states that the 4 podsters made a complete unit that needed to be kept together because their different gifts were needed to defeat the enemy. Maybe Tess is a warrior, led to believe she was the bride by Harding, when she really wasn’t. (Bad Boy Mr. Harding!!) And why make it so complicated? Do the Dupes have identical powers as their twin counterparts, or different powers? Why did they kill off one of their “unit” – the so-called “leader” - if it weakens them? (Didn’t their shapeshifter teach them anything?? ) Since their shapeshifter seemed to teach them so much – at least that is the impression we seemed to get from MTD - wouldn’t they have known the importance of keeping the unit together? There is also the question of whether the Mom’ogram is authentic, or a projection from Tess? (Did the Dupes see a similar projection previously, at the same time or at all? They never mention seeing a Mom’ogram! Yet, the “transmission on Brody’s computer showed that it came from both NM and NY!) It is often hard to tell when Tess’ projections/illusions leave off and reality begin – so why would be Mom’ogram be any different – Tess being so desperate to fit in and be accepted (and get rid of Liz) at the time! Was the Mom’ogram pre-recorded like a video tape (in which case – is Antar still in existence, or has it been destroyed by war or natural consequences? Apparently, it survives with Kivar in power – but with much “bloodshed”), or was it a direct communication with the home planet or a hidden spaceship (hidden by the V formation?) housing the heads of the allied forces?

And what about the “wedding flash”? I know that we have discussed this above, but I feel it is relevant to WHO the REAL bride is. Isn’t it a bit ironic that Max would have a “memory” of something that – in this timeline – hasn’t (and if things don’t change soon - won’t) happened? Obviously, his connection to Liz is so strong that even an event that only happened in another reality flashes through his consciousness – telling him, blatantly, who the Real Bride is supposed to be!

The Books – WHY Doesn’t anyone read these things?

Concerns similar to those raised about the Mom’ogram have been raised about the “book” found by Tess with respect to its authenticity and reliability. Why does the book only include the four podsters now that we know there were two sets of pods and duplicates? And why do the pictures look just like our grown Roswell podsters and not their punkish Dupes? Did the Dupes receive a similar book from their shapeshifter or guardian? What is the meaning of the symbol on the front? The (.) symbol is of significance, meaning the Black Moon and representing Lillith (you have to read Starbox’s post about the relationship of Adam, Eve and Lillith to understand – but it is significant!). If this book is an instruction or operations manual for the pod squad, why have they not deciphered it by now? Why does Max have writing on his forehead, but no one else does? (Maybe it is information about his Third Eye?) And, Why is Liz’s name written backwards near the top!

Could Grandma Claudia’s book – which is in Liz’s possession (we assume) - help decode the alien’s book and shed light on the aliens’ connection to the Indians, an ancient alien race or others in the area? If the alien book is authentic, how did the aliens know exactly what the pod squad would look like when they grew up? Were they “engineered” to that degree of precision (with tattoos on their brains), and if so, why use human form? Also, why were the Roswell podsters engineered so precisely, but the Dupes were not? Why was the Earth chosen? THIS is a MAJOR Question? (Lots of discussion re: DNA, cloning, etc. - very interesting! )

If there is any information in Whitaker’s files about translating the book, or resolving some of the mysteries surrounding the podsters?? WHY DID IT Take the announced death of Whitaker to get them to finally go through her files!!!! AND WHY DIDN’T THEY ASK COURTNEY AND AVA MORE QUESTIONS!!! (Sorry …a bit of a rant!) SCOOBY GANG – DECODE AND READ THE BOOKS! READ THE FILES! ASK MORE QUESTIONS! INVESTIGATE! DO YOUR HOMEWORK – AND I DON’T MEAN SCHOOLWORK – THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE NICE TO SEE YOU DO OCCASIONALLY!

After The Hybrid Chronicles, we have Grandpa Dupree’s files and notes to add to the reference material they should all be reading and learning from! WHY AREN’T THEY!!??!! It doesn’t take a brainiac to realize that Grandpa Dupree had some firsthand knowledge – prior to the crash obviously – of the aliens that made the podsters! There might be a wealth of information in those ramblings in his journals! Why are they curious!! I AM!

(End of Part 1 - Continued in next post!)

Liz is also viewed – when the episodes are re-watched (multiple times by some of us! And in slow motion with a jog-shuttle! We fondly call this “Grace Kelled” ) – as a critical element to moving the plot along. She is the one who often initiates the actions that help unravel the aliens’ mythology or saves the day (e.g., thinking of the plan to throw Valenti off the trail in the Pilot, finding the way out of the hidden room at Atherton’s place, making the initial contact with River Dog, going to Valenti to seek help in rescuing Max, identifying where the skeleton would be taken, potentially sacrificing her future with Max to prevent Tess from leaving and the future take-over of the Earth, figuring out how the humans had disappeared and how to bring them back, connecting with Max to save his life in NY, coming up with the idea that helps Max restore his balance in ARCC, figuring out the Blue Goo is a parasite and determining that Kyle had killed the blue crystals by suffocating them, etc.). Liz is a Leader that takes action when it is needed, and is the intellect that comes up with the plan. (Future Liz was the one that sent FM back in time, and Liz was the one to come up with the plan to make Max “fall out of love with her.”) We’ve heard that phrase “You’ve got to have a plan!” a lot recently. Well, Liz is the only one that seems to ever take it to Heart! The Pod Squad would be nowhere without Liz!

Vision Quest – How does Liz fit in?

Liz could possibly be the equivalent to Max – whom we now know is the “once and future” leader of his people – though apparently of questionable abilities and judgment. (Who knows whom and what to believe on this one? Larek and Nick seem to give the impression that Original Zan blew it big time on Antar – but who to believe?) Could Liz be the human equivalent of Max that is here to help Max save the human race, as well as free the pod squad’s people? Again – Does Liz’s connection “complete” or complement Max, and bring him into “balance”? It would make sense that having an Earthling matched up with Max would be the source of preservation for both Antar and Earth given the choice to send Max to Earth. Max seems to believe that Liz is his voice of reason, and knows him better than anyone else – even Iz! (We learn this from the JK and JB commentary on ARCC.) Could Liz possess part of Max’s alien essence, or some other qualities that make her his perfect match? Is Liz the 5th Element, necessary to bring power and balance to the Royal 4? Liz is also a brain – which is relevant when we find out in the White Room that the podsters are just very advanced humans (approximately 3000 years ahead of us normal mortals!). Could her intelligence (combined with her strong connection with Max) mean that she has the potential to obtain more of the “powers” that the pod squad have? Many had expressed that they would NOT be surprised if Liz would be capable of some advanced powers in the future, and that her visions may be just a precursor to these. NOW WE KNOW LIZ HAS POWERS (astral projection, at least) – just not the extent of those powers, whether they are still developing (probably!), and how the visions play into her powers! We have yet to see another human have visions. Even humans that have been affected by aliens like Laurie Dupree, Grant and Kyle have not had visions like Liz! Will she be the one able to see the evil within as the Mom’ogram says the podsters will have to be able to do? (I didn’t see anyone “see the evil within” with the Skins throughout the episodes that involved them!) Is that what Liz was "seeing" when she kissed Harding/Evil Max? Does she only get visions while kissing or in a state of heightened emotion (i.e., the hand touching in Sexual Healing in Chemistry class; arm touch in Ask Not – did you notice the first vision was of traveling through space – where do these come from!)? The aliens supposedly get such visions sometimes according to Max in Missing – remember the vision he got of Kyle in Liz’s bedroom and the visions Iz gets in Surprise (though those may have been “projected” visions from Tess to get Iz’s attention for help). And why did Max have visions that belonged to Liz when he was being MRd by Nicholas in Wipeout? Is the connection between Max and Liz that strong? Max seemed to get visions from those closest to him – Iz, Mikey G and Liz – while being MRd, but none from Tess – his supposed mate. Why? AND when is he going to get a vision of FM and what Liz has sacrificed?

All of Liz’s visions have been examined in-depth, and it is hard to summarize (is that what I’m doing?? Opps! ) all the thoughts here. We also now know that Kyle did not get visions from Max during Kyle’s healing – which is not huge, but goes to the question - WHY is LIZ the ONLY human to have VISIONS? Is this one of her new “powers”? Not only has she been able to “see into Max’s soul,” but also she has seen travels through space and a distant galaxy, the crash on Earth, and her visions were the reason the second communicator was discovered. Many feel these visions were not coming from Max, but from an outside source – or a source INTERNAL to Liz just “now” being released or awakened. Some of the visions seemed to be from the perspective of the communicator itself or an alien hiding it (a deep breathing – out-of-breath alien- apparently running from the Army). Some wonder if others - aliens? - have observed Liz for some time. The shot came from two “strangers” who mention – “We have to get rid of her” – in the background (listen carefully while Liz shows the alien picture to the tourist couple) right before she is shot. Qfanny was told that this was just two stunt men making conversation during the scene, but that doesn’t make sense to me! These types of “conversations” are easily edited out – and it was obviously, though not too obviously, left in – Why? Was her shooting intentional – and if so, WHY (and by whom – shapeshifters, time travelers, other aliens)?? Why would anyone (or any being) "watch" Liz prior to the shooting unless she has an importance we are not aware of yet (though we suspect, and TEOTW & MITC seem to confirm somewhat)? And who’s eyes are we seeing through watching Liz and Maria at the beginning of Wipe Out? The same eyes that watched Max at school and Harding by his car in the alley? The vision seems similar to that Liz gets in SH when she “sees” the orb being buried. Many of the obviously suspects (i.e., Courtney, a Skin, Tess) have been ruled out! Could this be Tic Tac - another alien that we believe has been watching them – Liz included? Could Tic Tac become invisible – like Harding did by turning into a Rock in the cave? (I do not believe that Harding, Nasedo and Tic Tac were all one and the same shapeshifter!) Could his blurred vision be the result of testing he was subjected to, and the tic tacs are pills that he takes to maintain his “balance”? Ummm…..

Time Travel – “Run, Lola, Run”

Now that we know that time-travel is possible, has it come into play already in a way we are not aware of – yet? Could this we the THIRD time around, similar to “Run, Lola, Run” – which was mentioned in Surprise as the story of Liz’s life? (First scenario being Liz doesn’t get shot and rescued by Max, thus they never connect and she never develops her powers, the second being Liz gets shot and marries Max at age 19 but fails to develop her powers fully due to the premature cementing, and the third being the path we are on now!) Watch the movie, and see what you think! (Look for the foursquare symbol on the door with the swirl through it on the door window and the swirl on the pillowcases – eerie! It’s the same as in the Season 2 promos!) Do Liz and Max have more than one chance to get things “right” – and ultimately, to be together in peace and harmony? OH – and what will Liz do with the knowledge she now has from FM concerning the Granolith – she did warn Max before he so rudely left for NY (Bad Boy Max!), and that warning prevented him from turning it over to the other aliens - and the potential for Tess to leave or turn evil (by not helping the podsters)? Won’t someone (Max in particular!) wonder how she knows these things? Her knowledge concerning the Granolith has already begun to bug Max – it has to eat at him now that he knows she has been changed! Does he really “know” as Kyle seems to think Max always does? Why isn’t he asking Liz about her the source of her knowledge? ASK HER MAX? STOP BEING SUCH A GUY! (It just might get you killed!)

Hero Journey – Liz’s Path

[The following is a summary of what BehrAll pulled together on another thread, and I’m applying it to LIZ! I thank all who may have contributed to this originally, and apologize for not mentioning your names. I believe the bulk of the following was quoted from NyLoN? And that Czech please also contributed to the post.] The Hero's Journey is perhaps the most famous method of storytelling ever. First used by Homer, it was given 'shape' by Joseph Campbell in the 20th century. It has been the basis for many of the most famous and popular works of fiction.

The Hero's Journey is a series of stages that a heroine must go through during her adventure. The stages are flexible in that they are not clearly defined, and Campbell admits that one need not follow all the stages for it to be a true journey. The Hero's Journey (HJ) does not apply to an entire plotline, but rather to a character or several characters and their evolution throughout a series. In our case, we believe that Liz is in the process of the HJ. Following are the HJ stages with references of how it applies to Liz (which I added):
1. Call to Adventure - The heroine must first be forcibly drawn into the adventure, this occurs from a normal occurrence and not something strange or supernatural. Liz’s healing after being shot would be such an event.
2. Threshold Guardian - The heroine must face a minor obstacle that blocks her way to the adventure. Okay – there are more obstacles that Liz has faced than I can mention here, but being a small-town girl who is human may be the initial minor obstacle.
3. Wise and Helpful Guide - The inexperienced heroine must find a guide who will aid her with advice and materials that will be instrumental in her journey. I’m not sure who this could be – Grandma Claudia seems the obvious choice since she was “everything” to Liz, and told her to follow her Heart: however, River Dog could be one, too. Adrien pointed out that “Dog” is “God” spelled backwards, and that River Dog is the one that explains to Liz about the Balance and its flow! What do rivers do? They Flow! Interesting that River Dog would be the expert explaining the flow of energy in the balance! Anyway, this goes along with my belief that someone is watching over Liz. Maybe she has more than one Wise and Helpful Guide!
4. Into the Labyrinth - The heroine must step out into the unknown and the “den of evil.” Getting involved with Max was stepping into the unknown. Working to defeat the enemy is stepping into the “den of evil.”
5. Heroic Deeds - The heroine must engage in mortal combat, often sacrificing something or someone for the further good to continue her quest. Liz has faced death – think escape from the FBI Special Unit – and sacrificed her own “happiness,” both current and future with Max in TEOTW for the greater good. She has also kept her mouth shut – almost telling Max in Viva Las Vegas – continuing to keep what must be a torturous secret from Max.
6. Trials - The midway point of the hero's journey is marked by a series of trials, ordeals, tests and obstacles. I think Season 2 speaks for itself!
7. Into the Belly of the Beast - A popular occurrence is the literal swallowing of the heroine by some great beast. This often marks the entrance to a mythical world where a great transformation occurs. However, in most works the belly of the beast is a metaphor for a stronghold of the enemy. Okay – Liz had to confront the Skins before disappearing, and there are probably other examples out there or some that may be coming!
8. Sacrifices - The opening of the mind and heart of the heroine requires her be prepared to (or in some cases does) sacrifice something of great import to her. Okay, think TEOTW – need I say more???
9. Atonement - The hero's journey sometimes includes a "father (or mother?) quest." After many trials and ordeals, the heroine finds her father and becomes "at one" with him. (Note, occasionally this step is eliminated to create 13 stages.) Since we don’t know the circumstances of Liz’s birth, we assume that her dad is her true dad, but ….
10. Return - The heroine then returns to her home with newfound powers, knowledge or ability to benefit her people. Liz does have newfound powers, knowledge and abilities, but … Maybe this is for Season 3??
11. Return of Evil - The heroine is not the only one who is reborn, the forces of evil also reform and come anew. Okay – this could happen numerous times over the course of Roswell! Does anyone doubt that Lonnie or Nick might come back soon? And can Kivar be far behind? And what about the FBI Special Unit?
12. Enchanted Forest - The inhabitants of the enchanted forest are strange creatures who can be both helpful and dangerous. The heroine must know how to get them to aid her on her quest. (Note, this is the second most likely step to be removed to create 13 stages.) Liz has already “befriended” Ava – definitely a “strange creature,” and Ava aided Liz’s quest to save Max. I would see Liz as instrumental in working with other creatures to seek their assistance.
13. Heart of Darkness - The heroine must enter the center of power for evil in order to destroy it or its' leader. This definitely could happen in future episodes! I can see her ability to see the evil within (if that proves true) coming in useful there.
14. Final Victory and Journey's End - In the end the heroine triumphs over evil and brings forth something new, be it enlightenment, power, understanding or a whole new society. Is there any doubt who is going to win this one?!!!

Liz’s relationship with Max is key in her journey, but it isn't the only issue she's dealing with (or needs to deal with!). The Hero's Journey can be physical or emotional. An emotional journey, such as usually occurs in a romance, takes the protagonist from her normal state of affairs and challenges her ideas, beliefs and current existence. A proactive protagonist responds to such challenges, undergoing tests of her moral fiber and emotional strength. Frequently she will have to examine all that she has believed to be true before a major confrontation. It is here that she pulls victory from disaster. And it is here that she seeks to return to normalcy. Many writers believe this is the end of the journey. But it isn't.

TEOTW as probably Liz’s "major confrontation" since it was her actions here that pulled "victory from disaster." The future was changed and (we assume) the events FM warned her of do not come to pass. At this point, she knows all she has gone through with (and for) Max has changed her, but believes that part of her life is over now. Liz is hoping that things can be relatively normal again, and has been trying to resume the life she had before Max. But as we all see, she will, of course, be unsuccessful. Watching the recent Interviews on the Silverhandprint leads me to believe that something big is coming soon for Liz! She seems to be trying to lead a normal life – school wise, etc. – but she continues to be drawn back to Max due to the connection, fire and energy between them! If so, look for more of her hero journey to continue!

The issue at the heart of Liz's HJ, the thing that she must overcome, is the myth of her own insignificance. She believes firmly in her ability to control her own destiny, but often dismisses the notion that she is any more than an obstacle to Max's journey. She's wrong, of course! In TEOTW, she learns that it is their love that damns them and those they care about. This is huge! Liz's romance, her emotional connection, determines the fate of the world! And ultimately, she is the one with the power to save everyone. Unfortunately, she doesn't recognize this power, only the fact that she will be alone now. Her journey isn't over yet.

Liz and Max's respective HJ's have intersected many times already, and we believe that they will eventually merge together. This is why many of us don't worry too much about their couple status. Most of us believe there is much more to Liz than we have seen and that her destiny is more important than she could possibly imagine. We believe things she has accepted at face value her whole life will be turned upside down. Her ultimate sacrifice will be the belief that she is normal. Once she accepts that she is no longer "the smallest of small town girls," she will need to accept entirely new perspectives and responsibilities. At that point, the HJ that has we've seen unfold on Roswell so far will be over and another phase in her life will begin.

Grandma Claudia – the first connection?

The picture Liz shows the tourists in the Pilot was supposedly taken by her Grandmother at the crash before the military arrived – a connection or just a joke as we were supposed to think? Could GC be Yvonne White (as in “peace”) who disappeared in Sof47, only to resurface with her new and married name – Claudia Parker? Many have speculated about Grandma Claudia’s involvement and her book about the Ancient Treasures of the Navajo Indians. Could Grandma Claudia have had contact with the aliens previously? Perhaps GC helped them when she was younger, and they entrusted valuable information with her just as with River Dog. Was Grandma Claudia killed intentionally? Did she know that Liz was “special,” thus, necessitating the early arrival and that “soulmate” discussion? Is Liz affected or a product of one of these earlier alien contacts? Could Liz have an alien relative – recent or distant? There seems to be many hints connecting ancient Indian cultures to the podsquad or other aliens, including the Machu Picchu in Peru culture highlighted at the UFO Museum, the continuing references to “ancient languages” (e.g., Liz’s Blind Date Doug Shellow’s major at the UofNM and where the aliens’ manual was hidden in the library), the traditional Indian music in the background throughout MITC, and Grandma Claudia’s studies. Only coincidence? We think not! Could Liz’s review of her Grandmother’s possessions reveal those connections? We are hopeful! (COME ON WRITERS – WHERE ARE THE INDIAN CONNECTIONS FROM SEASON 1? WHY ISN”T ANYONE READING GC’s BOOK? WHERE IS THE DETECTIVE IN THE SCOOBY GANG? HOW COULD THEY LIVE IN ROSWELL AND NOT HAVE MORE CONTACT WITH THE INDIANS?!)

Lifebonds vs. Soulmates

Norma Bates & Tasyfa contributed these thoughts! Soulmates are usually described as people being very alike in feelings and motivation. They work very well together for common goals. They have a connection of purpose and a similarity in thinking. Their skills complement each others so that together they accomplish more and are stronger/better than if they worked individually toward the same goal. But soulmates aren’t necessarily a permanent connection and they could be with several people. However, Lifebonds take "soulmate" one-step further. Lifebonds are usually found in telepathic sci-fi (Kathy Tyers' "Firebird" for example) and fantasy genres. Before they can be lifebonded, they must be soulmates first. They are linked together mentally, emotionally and constantly. Lifebonds in fiction are rare and not taken lightly. They are a permanent one on one connection…till death do they part. The creation of a lifebond is a matter of choice. It doesn’t just happen. Authors sometimes use the theory that if a pair decides to lifebond, they spend some time apart first (so don’t worry Dreamers! ;grin: ) to strengthen and stretch the bond (to change the bond) and to contemplate on their choice. Both must agree and be fully committed to each other. There is no divorce option except death. Once that is done, the 2 open their connections to each other, mind and soul, to the fullest extent and then “cement” their relationship, making the bond permanent.

The drawbacks to life bonding includes:
· If they are separated from each other, they feel incomplete, not whole. (I believe Max and Liz feel this right now, though they refuse to admit it.)
· Long-term separation can lead to mental instability or insanity because one balances the other’s strengths and weaknesses emotionally and physically. (Max has been acting a bit odd recently! )
· If one of a bonded pair dies, it can cause a deep depression to the point of suicide. The remaining survivor has trouble adapting and balancing themself.

Some things that lifebonds aren’t:
· They are not mind reading skills. They send strong impressions or emotions. Right now, if Max and Liz were lifebonded, he would know she was lying but not why unless she told him. And Max does SEEM to know – as Kyle said in Wipeout – “Max always knows!”
· They are still separate people capable of misunderstandings.
· Lifebonds cause a lot of stress and misunderstanding because they are so close emotionally, they forget to communicate verbally.
· Having secrets between a lifebonded pair causes a lot of frustration and pain between them.

Could what FM is talking about in TEOTW be a hint that, not knowing what they were doing, Liz and Max became lifebonded too soon? Liz wasn’t going to change or be able to lifebond to Max without first making a decision that she wanted to go ahead with the relationship. From Destiny until TEOTW she kept herself apart and tried to withdraw, but after seeing Madame Vivian she changed her mind and decided to take a chance…to start changing. Perhaps FM found out that Liz would develop her own powers if they hadn't become lifebonded and solidified the links so early. FM coming back and keeping her separated allowed the connections to grow stronger. Liz needed time to stretch the links, to change both physically and mentally, and taking Isabel's hand in MITC was only the first step of finding out whom she really is and what she is capable of doing.

Sheila Hubble – Eerie resemblance to Liz! – What’s the connection?

Another major topic of interest is Liz’s connection to Sheila Hubble! The resemblance between the two is amazing, and other parallels exist (e.g., pictures of both driving in an open-air car with the wind blowing through their dark hair). Plus, the visions that Liz receives from Max/Harding include Hubble’s wife at the death scene – meaning it had some significance to him. Did he kill her, or did the handprint come from a failed attempt to save her? Were the fireworks Hubble mentions seeing when kissing his wife the same as the stars Liz sees when kissing Max? Could Sheila Hubble be related to Liz somehow – an aunt, DNA donor, or was Sheila an alien? The fact that Sheila Hubble was three months pregnant with a girl seems to be relevant somehow – why else would they mention it?! Could the DNA from the girl or a twin have been used for the pod squad – Max maybe, or Tess – or for Liz? AND why is Tess' mother's name listed as Sheila Harding on her school records? Everett Hubble, Ed Harding - both EH names with a wife named Sheila - INTERESTING! Ummmm!

Speaking of connections – Is Hal Carver somehow connected to Liz? He lives in Florida – the state Liz spent the entire summer. Who was Liz staying with while in Florida?? He was a friend of her grandfather, Pete Parker. So, there is a connection to Liz. Did the aliens residing in Florida influence the vote count for the President? (oops – wrong topic ) Do you think the writers will introduce a character from Florida named Chad? (Bad Zero! ) Ummmmm? And what happened to Hal?? Don’t you think he would want to stay connected to the podsters now that he knows they exist? Same goes for Laurie Dupree – I hope she doesn’t just drop off the face of the Earth episode wise. Here is another human with a special connection to the podsters – I can’t imagine her not wanting to stay in touch regularly with Mikey G.

Venus – Liz’s mythical connection to the stars!

Liz’s ability to “see” into Evil Max/Harding’s “soul” again points to the possibility that she may ultimately be able to “see the evil within.” What is it that she sees in these visions? Sheila Hubble, Lightening, a wormhole (the Granolith at work??), the high desert, clouds rolling in? Some see sea foam, which is related in mythology to Venus. Is Liz the Venus often referred to? The Venus constellation is often referred to in connection with Liz (e.g., Max in response to Liz saying her parents are on a trip to see Venus in the morning sky says “I thought she was standing in front of me.”). There are too many interesting connections for Venus not to mean anything, and we now know the V constellation is the Royal Crest with the home planet being the Venus Star at the bottom. Some example of what has been turned up. (THANKS Starbox?!) Both the Mayans and Aztecs used Venus and the Venusian cycle to establish their calendars. Venusian years are grouped in cycles of 5. (Were podster people here to assist those cultures/civilizations with these developments?) Venus is associated with the Sun - she is his twin. (Is there a Max/Sun connection too?) Venus is seen as an intermediary between the Sun and mankind. Venus has a dual nature - by night she is the goddess of love and pleasure and by day she is the goddess of battle. In astrology - the sense of touch is one of Venus's attributes (explains Liz's ability to receive flashes with just a touch - also the importance of hand holding again). Venus is the guardian spirit of horses. Venus is associated with "sensual feelings, instinctive attraction, intoxication (maybe that’s why that kiss sobered Max up – restored the balance), SMILES, seduction, charm, beauty and grace." Plus, Venus and Serena make an awesome doubles combination – tennis anyone! Also, there is one part of Venus – the planet - that is named after a male...the highest point on Venus, standing at 11 km, and the largest mountain range, the Maxwell Montes! (Thanks Nemo, WR, Starstruck, et al.)

Some new findings connecting to Venus include - Liz considers the smell of sulfur as “being home.” Venus has sulfur as a predominant chemical in its atmosphere. “The first time I walked into a chemistry lab and smelled that smell – the sulfur – I felt like I was home.” (Monsters) Is this part of an alien essence or past? (Thanks StarBox!) Also, Venus is hot and dry. Its atmosphere is mostly carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas. Its upper atmosphere contains sulphuric acid. Venus rotates very slowly (once every 243 earth days) in the direction opposite to most of the other planets and opposite to the motion of all of the planets around the sun. Its solar day is 116 days long. Venus goes around the sun once every 225 days. StarBox, Bluecornmoon and Zara conducted the following analysis - 225 (245?) days after Feb. 20 (SH) was October 25, the day of the Gomez' concert (TEOTW). The next "mating" cycle for Max and Liz will be June 23rd, 2001! As for Liz and Max's "need" for each other - It's not time yet!

In Viva Las Vegas – swans were noted as “guards” of the door that Liz and Max come through holding hands. Swans are connected to Venus.

And recently, an article about Alex’s trip to Sweden was published on the Silverhandprint site. Interestingly, the school play scheduled for May, 3-5 (significant numbers for US), is “My Fair Lady.” StarBox and Shiftshifter found the following information that ties this into the Venus connection! The story of “My Fair Lady” could be a viewed as a parallel:
- An aristocratic man changes a common girl into a "princess" of sorts (the queen mistakes her for a princess).
- She falls in love with him, but he cannot admit he loves her back (because of their class difference).
- So - she leaves, resulting in him realizing he DOES love her!
- She comes back!
It is based on the myth of Pygmalion. From the Encyclopedia Brittanica: "in Greek mythology, a king of Cyprus who fell in love with a statue of the goddess Aphrodite (Venus). The Roman poet Ovid, in his Metamorphoses, invented a more sophisticated version: Pygmalion, a sculptor, made an ivory statue representing his ideal of womanhood and then fell in love with his own creation; the goddess Venus brought the statue to life in answer to his prayer." Hmmmmm - so a KING falls in love with Venus.... Get the connection now?

Evid also equated Liz with the morning star – Venus – and Tess with the evening star – Saturn. Max can choose Liz (morning star) who is the true light of the spirit, or Tess (evening Star) who will turn him away from the true light of the spirit and towards the material plane. (Remember the comment at the top of the Empire State Bldg? Umm…) Venus as the morning star changes its location in the sky and is often hidden – sound like Liz anyone? Max currently seems to be confused about his choices – he did go to evening services, so that was a plus, BUT with Tess around feeding his ego (and possible playing with his emotions and mind), it is still unclear what his choice will be next. In the end he WILL choose Liz, but it may take longer that we all like for him to get to that decision.

Numbers – It all adds up to Liz and Max!

Could it be that the 4 squares (pod squad) + plus the fifth star being Liz “complete” the constellation? There were 5 healing stones – Why? Shouldn’t there have been only 4 or 8? The numbers 1, 4 and 5 seem to pop up often – why? We now know that there are 5 planets involved, but … Even the communication was done on 5/14 – those numbers again! TEOTW occurs in 2014! Some have found a connection between these numbers to Venus in astronomy and mythology, or could it be 1 for Liz, and 4 for the pod squad? Could Liz be the 5th Element foretold in prophecy (thus, Zan’s search and Ava’s reaction), and that is necessary to the success of the podsters? Or are these numbers just some writer’s favorite apartment number or address? It has been noted that 4 represents “Potential,” while 5 represents “Balance” and “Marriage between Heaven and Earth.” Ummmmm! We also have the evil aliens’ beeper that is a pentagon – 5 sided. The same shape as Atherton’s ceiling. Any connection? The Balance Wheel had 5 radii! The number 2 has also been cropping up a lot lately – 2 as in Max and Liz or as in duplicates? Next time you watch ARCC, notice the house addresses for Brody and the Ghost’s family, and it’s the 23rd Annual celebration. They all add up to 5! On the Silverhandprint, notice the crime report for Liz’s shooting. The Crashdowns address and the time of the shooting all include 2, 3 and 4s! We are constantly seeing combinations of these numbers! Is someone sending us a message? Maybe it is that we are all nutty! I believe it was Nemo who posted "The Symbolism and Spiritual Significance
of the Number Five” which may be found at - http://www.greatdreams.com/five/five.htm .

Recently, The Behroness d’Roswell added the follow – which I’ve cut a bit – but it is so interesting:
Pythagoras of Samos is often described as the first pure mathematician. Pythagoras was interested in the principles of mathematics, the concept of number, the concept of a triangle and other mathematical figures, and the abstract idea of a proof. He founded a philosophical and religious school in Croton. He also was involved with music and astronomy. Both men and women were permitted to become members of the society. The beliefs held were:
1) that at its deepest level, reality is mathematical in nature;
2) that philosophy can be used for spiritual purification;
3) that the soul can rise to union with the divine;
4) that certain symbols have a mystical significance; and
5) that all brothers of the order should observe strict loyalty and secrecy.
He taught that each number had its own personality – masculine or feminine, perfect or incomplete, beautiful or ugly…Ten was the very best number…it contained in itself the first four integers (1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10) and these written in dot notation form a perfect triangle or Tetrakys. A Tetrakys is a triangle composed of ten points, one point in the middle and four points to each side, adding up to nine. This is the primary symbol of Pythagorean philosophy, susceptible of a number of interrelated mythological, cosmological, psychological and sociological interpretations. One interpretation is the dot at the apex (if you are going to govern, it must be from the apex of the triangle, in the sense that the world eye is on top instead of being on one side or the other of the pyramid) is representing the creative center out of which the universe and all things have come. The pouring of transcendent energy into and expanding through the field of time precipitated the whole world. As soon as it enters the field of time, it breaks into pairs of opposites, the one becomes two. Now, when you have two, there are just three ways in which they can relate to one another. One way is of this one dominants over that; another way is that one dominants over this, and a third way is of the two in balanced accord.
…
In Sumerian cosmology the V constellation is a metaphorical copulation of the male A and the female V, from which the Greek “holy tetraktys” is abstracted. The Alien symbol could represent a Mandala. A Mandala is a Sanskrit compound word of manda that means “essence” and a suffix la, meaning “container” or “possessor.” Thus mandala means “A Container of Essence” or “Sphere of the Essence.” Manadala is also a Sanskrit word for “circle.” From this etymology (origin of a word), the mandala shares a common characteristic of having a center or axis and directional headings. It could also be a place where Microcosmo and Macrocosmo unite. A place where inner world, called the Self, and the outer world, called the Universe, get together in your body. The mandala is your body, which represents the entire universe. The union or harmony (balance) of self and the universe, inner world and outer world. Also, the alien symbol could represent a Navajo sand painting. The Navajo have many star myths and much sky lore, i.e., the two Nahookos, The Male and Female Ones Who Revolve (The Big Dipper and Cassiopeia), who symbolized a married couple that circle Polaris. Polaris represented a fire in the center of their hogan. (Note: Cassiopeia A is believed to be the remains of a massive star that exploded in the late 17th century.)

Behroness goes on that first and foremost, even though the Pod Squad is a complete unit (4), they will NOT be at their most powerful without The Fifth...namely Liz! Liz is not only important to the success of the Pod Squad...she is VITAL. She is intelligent, she has wisdom beyond her years, she is understanding (her sacrifice in EOTW), and her opinions and sense perception are valued. Now to Max...There have been three Max’s, even for a short time, existing in the same field of time. Since Zan has been taken out of the picture, so to speak, FMax and PMax need to balance; i.e. FMax needs to realize that there has to be another way to save the world and PMax needs to get back together with Liz. I can also spec that FMax and PMax’s conflict has made PMax weaker and indecisive. Originally, Kivar was willing to do away with Max; but to Kivar’s horror it was found out during the conference between the leaders of the five planets that the Granolith is not on Antar. I’m speculating that Kivar needs to find it and retrieve it as quickly as he can and with PMax in a weaken state, he will be more easily manulipated. The number 47...just a guess; it could be 47 degrees West. In Navajo mythology, wisdom and knowledge enters from the West and it‘s possible that this has to do with the Granolith‘s position during activation. It’s possible that Liz through mediation or by some other means could awaken her past life essence as Max’s first wife. I know...wishful thinking. But from Liz’s explanation as to why she and Max are attracted to each other...”fire” was used and fire is the highest of the four elements and is cone shaped...Granolith anyone??? And if there is a means where Liz is transformed into a Mandala, she could be The Container of Essence. This also could be a possible explanation if Max has a “V’ symbol as the Royal Seal; that Liz could have the “A”. Ok...I know that this is opposite, Max with the female symbol and Liz with the male symbol, but it could mean that during the transfer of their essence, they broke into opposites when they entered into the field of time (Earth time). I’m theorizing that the transfer of their essences took place on Antar and Antar is probably light years away from Earth. This would also explain why Max and Liz have a deep-seeded attraction; but were completely unaware of their past lives due to the transfer.

Cave Map Symbols – All signs lead to Liz?

And what significance does the cave map have to Liz's connection to the podsters? A number of the symbols in the cave “map” have raised some interesting analysis! What do they represent, and is Liz represented somehow - like one of the "dots" in the series of five boxes, one of which is open with the dot outside? This symbol recently arose again in Max’s visions in Wipe Out. Some have tried to identify each of the symbols and draw a correlation between the symbols and the various characters with some fascinating results! We also begun to analyze the symbols that were “flashed” in the promos for Season 2 – you definitely have to Grace Kel them or you miss them. Redhawk has done some wonderful screen caps of these for us to analyze! Is Liz the connection that holds the four squares together? See the discussion of lines and stars above! Do the symbols on the cave map actually represent locations? Mikey G seemed to think that one represented the library in Roswell. Could Las Vegas be represented somehow? This arises with the “thin place” discussion above. Is Grandpa Dupree’s house on the map somewhere? Umm..?

The symbol on the necklace that leads to the cave looks like a yin/yang symbol. Audrey11 contributed the following - yin and yang have some references to things that have been discussed. This is a brief list of what they represent, mostly in reference to previous discussions.
Yin - conceived of as earth, female, present in even numbers, valleys and streams, represented by the tiger, the color orange and a broken line.
Yang - conceived of as heaven, male, present in odd numbers, mountains, represented by the dragon, the color azure and an unbroken line.
The concept of yin-yang in Chinese thought is associated with 5 elements: metal, wood, water, fire and earth, this idea lends substance to the characteristically Chinese belief in a cyclical theory of becoming and dissolution and an interdependence between the world of nature and human events.

Now look at the ending the was not used in “Leaving Normal,” and see if you don’t see Liz and Max make a yin/yang symbol when they hug!

Skins – What lies below the surface?

We now know that the "evil" aliens that we are aware of (there could be others) – Skins - came from the pod squad's planet, but are part of a civil war/revolution - therefore, seem to have similar characteristics and powers to the podsters – but it is not clear what all those powers are, except that shapeshifting does not seem to be one of them. They seemed to be confined to their husks, but they could be from the same race as the pod squad’s alien predecessors. Many of us think that the pod squad’s people had to have visited Earth before - maybe many times! We know that Grandpa Dupree was abducted prior to the crash (a decade before) – of course, they had to harvest the Human DNA. Could other pods have been planted on Earth at a time separate from the 1947 crash? Wouldn’t it have made sense to have done some trials before risking the Royal 4’s essences? When would they have had time to construct the elaborate pod chamber with the hidden Granolith? And why put the Dupes in the sewers of NY? Yuck – I agree with Nicko on this one – at least with respect to the sewer aspect! :frown: How did the “mother bear” get those pods from NM to NY without being noticed? And, why did those podsters end up looking like punks? What happened to their shapeshifter/guardian, and why were Rath and Lonnie so protective of that information? How did the Skins – Nicko - find the Dupes? And could some of these earlier alien visits have some connection to Grandma C or someone else in Liz’s family? Was the ’47 crash caused by the evil aliens, or another ship of the “good” aliens? How long have the evil and good aliens been visiting or aware of Earth? Apparently the Skins originally arrived in 1950, but did they visit at another time? And what have they been up to on these visits? Aliens who abducted him, and now use his body for possession/visitations supposedly healed Brody. Why? And are there another race or groups of aliens on Earth? And, why in the world pick Earth to hide the podsters – in human form, with human DNA – unless, Earth, and the humanity it represents is essential to the podsters survival? Is that why the “more human” podsters were given possession of the Granolith? Once again, this would tie in Liz’s importance as a human – possibly the “chosen” human to assist in their survival – the 5th Element (I like this theory – can you tell ).

Recently, the disintegration of Skin when picked up was noticed. Why did it not disintegrate when Maria picked it up, but did when the podsters and Liz picked it up? Could be moisture content, but it could be the energy generated by the person holding it. Does Liz generate energy similar to the podsters – possibly being one of the connections to Max?

Shapeshifters – Are there more than one?

Most of us also think that there are more than one alien “watching” the pod squad, and that the tic-tac popping alien (AKA Tic Tac) (i.e., Hank-killer, one that found them asleep in the desert, and Dr. M impersonator, yet to show up in Season 2!!) is a different alien, possibly watching out for them (we hope!), than Harding/Nasedo (assuming Harding is Nasedo). And what about the person who burns their picture at the end of Blind Date - another alien or one of the above two? Some wonder if Tess, Doug Shellow, Pierce and/or Deputy Owen might be a shapeshifter, or evil aliens? There is a wonderful observation of the different ways Harding and Tic Tac shapeshifted and the different colored light involved! Many feel that Tic Tac is a good alien watching over the podsters, but maybe he is watching over Liz, too! Some wonder if Tic Tac switched the orb in the desert before Liz and Max woke up? If he did, why? The orbs have become a significant focus of discussion – how are they connected to the alignment of the constellations, or to the pod squad, or to the evil aliens? Also – what was with the “visit” during Into The Woods? (Did you notice that FM appears with a lightning strike just like in Into The Woods?) Was it a spaceship that left the marking, or a single alien? As far as the color analysis goes, generally yellow seems to represent – or be present – evil, and blue seems to represent good – though this is not always true. Laurie’s cell glowed blue, but then there is the Blue Goo – potential ultimate contaminant of the Earth. And then, there is always the green cells and occasional glow, and the red that seems to be present throughout Surprise and in Liz’s dream! And where is Tic Tac so far in Season 2?? I can’t believe he and Harding were one and the same. Maybe Tic Tac was the Dupes’ shapeshifter who came back to Roswell. If Tic Tac wasn’t their shapeshifter/guardian, what happened to him/her??

Harding’s connection to Liz has been pondered often! Recently with the discovery of Liz’s change, many have wondered why Harding didn’t know about the change and mention it. Especially after reading the cut scenes from MITC. If Ava knew, Harding should have known and mentioned it! Of course, there ae the long lingering questions like: Why was he so eager to kiss Liz – not just in the car, but also in bus after “saving” her? (Horny alien? ) Why did he save Liz and not Max from the house of mirrors? Could he have been Sheila Hubble’s lover or had some other strong connection to her, with a later connection to Liz? Could he have known Grandma Claudia? Could GC been connected to Sheila Hubble somehow? Harding did nothing – we know of – to harm Liz, but MANY are suspicious of his intentions, and his apparent failure to divulge information about Liz and the podsters’ origins. Was his sole reason for being on Earth to protect the podsquad – an official “worker bee”? And what did he do for all those years before Tess hatched? Some feel he was a bad alien using Tess to infiltrate the pod squad. He and Tess are creepy in Tess, Lies and Videotapes. Again, why didn’t he give the podsters more information about themselves, Liz, the Dupes and what he had been up to? Why did Harding have such a large collection of antiques, which he was so sensitive about? Had he been around when they were original manufactured – years ago? There are so many questions he could have answered for the podsters before he was wasted! And was the fact that Liz was NOT present at the attempt to heal Harding the reason the healing failed? Maybe Liz is somehow necessary to make the healing stones work – part of the Balance? Was Harding responsible for Liz’s “great opportunity” in Congresswoman Whitaker’s office? If not, who was the connection there?

Handholding – the symbol of the V constellation

Some have noted the reoccurrence of handholding as symbolizing the connection between Max and Liz and the other podsters. Handholding has great significance in the Roswell High books as a form of joining energy, and we believe it does in the show too. The V constellation also looks like the joining of two hands. Also, in The Balance much is made of Max reaching out his hand to pull Michael from the pit, and M/I/M walking away holding hands. We wonder what would have happened in Harvest if Liz had stepped forward to join her power with Max instead of Tess – who did not seem to help at all. Iz held Liz’s hands to help her connect to Max – though it appeared to be Liz’s powers that caused the connection. And who could miss Max grabbing Liz’s hand at mid-night mass and telling Liz, “I believe in you!” in ARCC! And finally, there is that wonderful scene at the end of Viva Las Vegas when Liz and Max lead the Scooby Gang into the room with Liz and Max holding hands!

Mythology!

Evid recently came across the following, and I thought it was worth including:
Myth is a method of making sense of the world.
Myth is reality presented to us in a slightly skewed form so that we are not frightened off.
Myth and mythology is the primal source of the knowledge the human race have.
Myth is an attempt to understand the world.
Myth is a way of relating.
Myth is about relationships.
Myth is fun.
Myth is sorrow.
Myth is about maturing and growth and decay and death.
Myth is life.
Myth connects us to an unfragmented world.
Myth puts us in touch with our noblest impulses, our finest dreams.
Myth teaches us to embrace our limitations with joy, for that frees us for what is possible.
Myth is to step out of linear time, into a circle of endless creation.
Myth is magic.

Dates

Finally – dates seem to be of interest to those on this thread. So, following is a rundown of dates as I’ve been able to gather them from episodes and factual research. I include them up-front for easy reference, but I would love to add dates of relevance you come across – PM me if you have one. I have added dates from the Silverhandprint site and a timeline on the Crashdown site, but they don’t always jive with the episodes, so take them with a grain of salt.

1903 – James Atherton born (according to Crashdown Timeline)
1911 - James Atherton born in TN (according to 285S)
1918 – Charles Dupree born
1927 - Buffalo Visitation
1932 – River Dog born on Mesaliko Indian Reservation (Crashdown Timeline)
1933 – Grandma Claudia born (Crashdown Timeline)
1935 – Picture of Michael’s DNA donor, Charles Dupree (Hybrid Chronicle’s promo)
1936 (approximately) – Charles Dupree, Mikey G’s DNA donor, begins to be abducted (Scarlet Moon)
1942 – Deputy Owen Blackwood born on Mesaliko Indian Reservation (Crashdown Timeline)
1/15/43 – Pentagon (think beeper shape) completed
6/14/1947 - Crash
6/24/1947 - 9 Disklike objects spotted flying near Mt. Rainier in WA
7/4/1947 – Milton claims the crash occurred
7/7/1947 - Farmer Brazel (from Foster Ranch) finally reports debris from Roswell crash to sheriff, who calls Roswell Army Air Field
7/7/1947 – Privates Timothy Mann and Frank DiMuzio find Privates Bill Fifer and Jim McCarthy dead near crash site.
11/14/1947 - Everet Hubble born
1949 – Special Agent Lewis recruited to run FBI Special Unit (Silverhandprint)
1950 – Agent Lewis mentions “butchers at Eagle Rock” to wife [think Eagle Rock Military Base] (Silverhandprint)
2/4/1950 – Skins arrive on Earth (Harvest)
2/5/1950- 1st day in Skins (Whitaker Diary)
2/13/1950 – Skins’ motor skills improving (Whitaker Diary)
3/8/1950 - Vanessa Whitaker adopts her maiden name Vanessa Crawford (Whitaker Diary)
7/4/1950 – Skins have been looking for the Royal Four for three months (Whitaker Diary)
1950? - Observation of alien held in captivity by FBI ends (Escaped? Died?)
1951 – Phillip Evans and Sheriff James Valenti born (Crashdown Timeline)
1952 – Diane Evans (M&I Mom) and Special Agent Stephens born (Crashdown Timeline)
1952 - Atherton involved in Project Blue Book (Air Force project on aliens)
1955 - Jeff Parker born (Crashdown Timeline)
1955 – Atherton publishes “Among Us” (Crashdown Timeline)
10/4/1957 – Whitaker reports that morale is low, 20% of Skins have died, and that they must find the Granolith to go home (Whitaker Diary)
1957 – Nancy Parker (Liz’s Mom) born (Crashdown Timeline)
1/8/1958 – Whitaker states "How?" in her diary (Whitaker Diary)
1958 – Milton Ross born (Crashdown Timeline) [Note – this does not fit with him being old enough to be in the “Ice Cream Parlor Picture” from 1959 – unless he was a VERY mature 1-year-old]
11/16/1959 - Atherton dies (murdered?)
1959 - Milton (Max's Boss) has picture with "alien" shadow next to him outside the Ice Cream Parlor
1961 – Amy De Luca born (Crashdown Timeline)
11/3/1962 - Whitaker writes "Still can't talk about it.” (Whitaker Diary)
1962 - Agent Lewis - first head of Special Unit killed in Delta, CO
2/13/1963 - Nicolas was a general in the palace at home (Whitaker Diary)
1964 – Agent Kathleen Topolsky born (Crashdown Timeline)
1967 - Agent DelBianco killed in Union City, TN
9/23/1968 - Skins are begin to peel (Whitaker Diary)
3/23/1970 - Nicolas orders skins to "clean up" their personal data to fit in better with humans (Whitaker Diary)
1970 - Sheila Hubble dies (murdered?)
1972 – Silo Murder occurs involving Hubble and Sheriff Valenti Senior (UFO Convention)
9/13/1973 – Kathleen Ann Topolsky, future FBI agent, born in Hartford, Connecticut
1975 – Allister Topolsky born
1977 – Phillip and Diane Evans marry (Crashdown Timeline)
5/14/1978 - Nicolas plans the Harvest (Whitaker Diary)
1979 – Agent McMahon, head of FBI Special Unit, killed (Silverhandprint)
1979 – Jeffery and Nancy Parker marry (Crashdown Timeline)
10/15 or 25/1982 – Isabel’s birthday (Surprise)
1983 – Michael’s birthday?
3/15/1983 – Max’s birthday (Blood Bothers)
3 or 5/7/1983 – Tess’s birthday (I see a 5, others see 3?)(Tess, Lies and Videotapes)
1983 – Kyle, Maria, Ales & Liz born (Crashdown Timeline)
10/11/1984 - Nicolas tells Whitaker to be a senator (Whitaker Diary)
1984 – Jeff Parker opens up the Crashdown Café (Crashdown Timeline) [What happens to Parker’s – the predecessor to the Crashdown? – Z]
1985 – Pohlman Ranch Excavation (Silverhandprint)
1987 – Liz wears the “Cupcake Dress” to school in kindergarten (Crashdown Timeline) [Would make Liz an awfully YOUNG kindergartener – maybe they start early in NM?? - Z]
1989 - Pod Squad come out of the cave (look like 6-year-olds)
1989 – Max heals pigeon in the park (Toy House)
1989 – Kyle’s mom, Jim Valenti’s wife leaves (Wipeout)
1990 – Maria’s Dad leaves (Sexual Healing)
1991 – Max sees Liz for first time in 3rd grade (Crashdown Timeline) [Again, this would be off based on their timeline – Liz would be in 4th grade. I think Liz started K in 1988, and Max saw her for the first time the following year – 1989 - in 1st grade after he gets off the bus, BUT they did not officially get to Know each other until 3rd grade – Z]
1991 – UFO Museum founded (Crashdown Timeline)
1991 - 92? - Liz and Max "meet" in the 3rd grade for the first time (but may have been in the same school before this, just didn't meet.)
1992 - Max and Isabel "find" Michael again
1992 – Alex meets Liz in 4th grade, but they do not become close friends until the 5th grade (Crashdown Timeline)
1992 – Charles Dupree (Laurie Dupree’s Granddad and Mikey G’s human DNA donor) committed for insanity (silverhandprint)
1993 – Brody abducted by aliens from Boston Turnpike (gone 3 days) (silverhandprint)
1993 – Charles Dupree dies at the age of 75 (silverhandprint)
Fall 1993 – Topolsky graduates from U. of Hartford, w/ BA in Psychology
11/1993 – Topolsky’s brother Allister dies of Hodgkin’s Disease
5/29/1994 - Vanessa Crawford marries John Whitaker, Congressman from New Mexico (Whitaker Diary)
5/16/1996 - John Whitaker dies in "tragic" plane crash (Whitaker Diary)
1997 – Brody buys an alien beeper
1997 – Topolsky graduates from U. of Michigan with PhD in Psychology
11/15/1997 – Date on Laurie Dupree’s Psychiatric Hospital Bag (We Are Family)
1999 - Agent Daniel Sommers, head of FBI Special Unit, killed
5/5/1999 – Whitaker writes about dating Pierce (Whitaker Diary)
9/17/1999 – At 3:52 pm Liz Parker is shot, and Max Evans saves Liz - and Roswell is Born!! (Sheriff’s Report – Silverhandprint)
9/27/1999 – The Morning After
9/27/1999 – Topolsky e-mails Stephens re: arrival in Roswell (Silverhandprint)
9/28/1999 – Topolsky has first day at West Roswell High (Silverhandprint)
9/30/1999 – Topolsky e-mails Stephens re: confiscated Sheriff’s files & Michael Guerin (Silverhandprint)
Fall 1999 – Max and Liz are both 16-year-olds (Silverhandprint)
10/14/1999 – Topolsky e-mails Suzanne Duff – obviously close friends (Silverhandprint)
10/14/1999 – Topolsky e-mails Stephens re: Future Week [think Profiles] (Silverhandprint)
10/19/1999 – Leaving Normal – Grandma Claudia visits
10/27/1999 – Topolsky e-mails Stephens re: Alex [Even Topolsky notices the “intense” connection between Max and Liz] (Silverhandprint)
10/28/1999 – Liz’s Journal is found (Missing)
10/28/1999 – Liz and Max search Kyle’s for the Journal, & Topolsky recognizes Michael’s artwork as Atherton’s geodesic dome (Silverhandprint)
11/4/1999 – 285 South Begins (Profiles - Silverhandprint)
11/5/1999 – Scooby Gang drives back from Atherton’s (Profiles - Silverhandprint)
11/6/1999 – Topolsky orders a Casio Magic Wand (Silverhandprint)
11/9/1999 – Topolsky following pod squad to Atherton’s [Date not consistent with Profiles] (Silverhandprint)
11/11/1999 – Topolsky describes the incident at Atherton’s (Silverhandprint)
11/18/1999 – Max in car accident [think Blood Brothers] (Silverhandprint)
11/19/1999 – Topolsky’s final report (Silverhandprint)
12/2/1999 – Heatwave hits Roswell!
12/3/1999 – Liz and Alex wind up in jail after party (Heatwave)
12/4/1999 – Max & Liz share their first kiss (Heatwave)
1/2000 – Frazier Woods SIghting
2/14/2000 – Liz goes on her Blind Date with Doug Shellow
2/2000 – Beeping in the desert (SH)
2/21(?)/2000 – Orb found by Max and Liz (SH)
4/8/2000 – FBI Agent Daniel Pierce checks out item 87 kl stone form Special Unit vault (Silverhandprint)
4/8/2000 – Kathleen Topolsky checks out Orb Communicator from FBI Evidence Vault (Silverhandprint)
4/14/2000 – Fire brakes out at Bethesda Psychiatric Institute in Bethesda, Maryland, and Topolsky is listed as among the six patients killed (Silverhandprint)
4/18/2000 - Daniel Pierce leaves for Roswell (Whitaker Diary)
5/5/2000 – Rare alignment of Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Earth’s Moon and the Sun (4everyoung)
5/14/2000, 4:33 pm – Pod Squad set off the communicators – sending a pulse detected by other aliens (Season 2 inconsistency with Season 1)
5/27/2000 – Date Liz enters into the computer for the “constellation alignment” (Season 1)
7/2000 – Grant steals rifle from hunter in New Castle, Wyoming (Disturbing Behavior)
8/2000 – Grant steals oxygen tanks from hospice in Fort Collins, CO (Disturbing Behavior)
9/2000 – Grant steals plastic head box from industrial supply in Las Cruses, NM (DB)
Fall 2000 – Scooby Gang begins 11th grade (Monsters) or 12th grade based on comments in Season 2
9/25/2000 – Congressional hearing closes down FBI Special Unit (S&B)
9/29/2000 - Whitaker decides to set up her Roswell office, Pierce doesn't return her calls (Whitaker Diary)
10/6/2000 - Whitaker's office is set up, and has employed Liz Parker. Nicolas reports deserters from Copper Summit. (Whitaker Diary)
10/7/2000 - Whitaker reports Pierce is "the shapeshifter," and that since he went to Max Evans, Evans must be one of the hybrids. Also wonders if Iz is really Vilandra: It is possible the Queen could have reversed Vilandra's and the Bride's roles to throw them off track. Realizes Liz's importance to the hybrids and tapes her calls. Killed Harding, the shapeshifter. (Whitaker Diary)
10/15 or 25/2000 – Isabel celebrates her 18th birthday
10/25 or 11/25 – Whitaker was supposed to report to Skins, but doesn’t (Harvest) [The dates in Surprise, TEOTW & Harvest are ALL screwed up – someone should e-mail a copy of this timeline to the writers! Z]
10/27(?) or 11/3/2000 – Future Max visits, causing Liz to fake sleeping with Kyle, pushing Max to accept Tess (thus, changing forever the course of history)
11/6/2001 – Special Agent Ragsdale writes Congressman White re: FBI Special Unit (Silverhandprint)
11/23/2000 – Max goes to the Summit; calls Iz with details of offer
Fall 2000 – Harvest of Skins due or they will die (Harvest)
12/7/2000 – Grant’s ?? birthday (Surprise)
12/23/2000 – Max heals 5 kids in U of A Children’s Hospital (ARCC); exact time – 8:33 PM (silverprint)
12/24/2000 – Max attends Midnight Services, expressing his Belief in Liz (ARCC)
1/2001 – The Hybrid Chronicles Begin!
1/15/2001 (oops – silverhandprint made a mistake and had it as 1/15/2000) – Laurie Dupree escapes insane asylum Pine Crest Psychiatric Institute in Brownsfield, Texas – she was 16 years old when committed (silverhandprint)
2/2001 (oops – silverhandprint made a mistake and had it as 2/2000) – National Interrogator published with stories about Roswell storylines (silverhandprint)
4/27/2001 – Roswell High Junior/Senior Prom (silverhandprint)
5/3-5/2001 – Roswell High Production of “May Fair Lady” (AKA Liz ) (silverhandprint)
5/24/2001 – Roswell High Senior Awards
6/1/2001 – Roswell High Graduation Rehearsal
2014 – Minutes before the destruction of Earth, Future Liz Convinces Future Max to go back in time and convince Liz to deceive Max into “falling out of love with her” – thus, changing the future (TEOTW)

In Summary

I know I have NOT covered everything (there’re an amazing number of clues to be found whether meant to be or not!), but that would be impossible and I’d never do all the wonderful theories justice! There is lots of speculation about other characters revolving around Liz, and why they are important to the discussion. Some have wondered why Max and Agent Stevens had the same address – just an inside joke or more? The Ava drawings also seem to tie Liz in just by including her, but …? Tangents are welcome on this Thread as long as they ultimately lead back to Liz! I'm trying to “sum” up the core issues here - Liz's importance and connection to the podsquad – Max in particular! I hope others will help fill in some of the gaps, but this is my attempt to continue the wonderful input, and make this thread somewhat accessible. (If you don’t mind spending a few hours reading first! ) I’m also hoping the clues that we have found are up-lifting to the Dreamers out there that just lurk! Lots to think about!! So – theorize away!!! All theories on "Liz’s Importance to the Alien Mythology" are welcome.

OH, BTW (I always have to add this – if anyone from the production staff or THE WB reads this), WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LIZ/MAX CONNECTION IS CRITICAL TO THE SHOW, AND THAT TOGETHER MAX AND LIZ MAKE AN INCREDIBLE FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!! Even Ronald Moore stated in the commentary for Ask Not that the “Max and Liz relationship is so strong and so central to the entire series!”

A couple of general “rules” – NO SPOILERS[b/] (even asides about spoilers are not allowed), but anything “aired” is subject to discussion, including coming attractions and things on the Silverhandprint site. Pictures are welcome, as is deleted dialog from posted scripts of shows that have been aired and commentary by writers/producers. As Alex – true and loyal friend to Liz - says - "Gripa det dagen" (seize the day)!

Zero
I Shall (Continue to and Always) Believe!!

Importance of the repeated "V" pattern and hand-holding:

Here is a great drawing of a diamond (the shape of the granolith) that Metaphysical posted - notice the repeated "V"'s within the shape?

The granolith itself (is Liz it's "keeper"???) Cool animation compliments of Adrian

Liz as Venus:

Liz and Max as twin souls - notice how they come together to form the
"swirl" on the orb activated during Sexual Healing. Also - notice the
"Emergency" sign behind them - when they come to gether it reads "MERGE".
The animation is from the alternate ending to Leaving Normal is currently being moved but will be back up again soon Thanks redhawk
The screencap is of the aired ending of Leaving Normal - here you can see a variation of the orb swirl as well.

Metaphysicalgirl found lots of neat pictures of chakras and crop circles - here is an artists representation of the chakra that corresponds to Max's "royal seal" - notice the eagle and the swirl - both of which are Max/Liz symbols:

Liz as the keeper of/key to the granolith:
Picture of the granolith chamber in the crashdown:

Liz with the word "CHANGE" behind her - from Leaving Normal. I think the
theme of Liz's "emergence" is central to Roswell - Think of Future Max's
line that Liz needed to let herself change.

Liz's Hero Journey is closely linked to images of Liz looking into MIRRORS. The mirror seems to symbolize the transformation Liz is undergoing. Another symbol linked to Liz is that of BUTTERFLIES - an obvious symbol of metamorphasis and change.

Sheila Hubble:

Liz as the Virgin Mary/key to Salvation (::waving to Evid:

The dragon on Liz's window:

Liz as the Trojan Horse (she was avoiding Maria in the Pilot and ate lunch
with Pam TROY). Horses have shown up alot in pictures, etc but here is the
horse that ran in front of Max's jeep in Blood Brothers:

The "destiny" book with the name "LIZ" backwards next to what looks like the
granolith sideways:

Liz and the cave "map" - note the granolith-like symbols near her neck and
towards the top.

Liz and the Childhoods End book:

Liz is also often shown with SUNFLOWERS or SUNS - a symbol that links her to Max - who is closely associated with the SUN. Here she is with her latest sunflowers - little sunflower lights. Also notice the "V" pattern on her blanket.

The cross and the sugar cubes:

Images thanks to crashdown, shapeshifter, redhawk and a HUGE thanks to
www.theddd.com who are kind enough to
supply custom screencaps for our gallery.
THANKS!!!

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

I forget who-all was discussing this now, but there are only 2 instances when Michael calls Max, Maximillian: in Morning After, near the end he says, "Don't get in too deep, Maximillian, it only makes us weaker"; and in 285S, he says, "Jackpot, Maximillian" when they go into the secret room under the floor. That's it; all other times he says Maxwell (well, or Max ).

Behroness So nice to see you here!
~Tas

Another major topic of interest is Liz’s connection to Sheila Hubble! The resemblance between the two is amazing, and other parallels exist (e.g., pictures of both driving in an open-air car with the wind blowing through their dark hair). Plus, the visions that Liz receives from Max/Harding include Hubble’s wife at the death scene – meaning it had some significance to him. Did he kill her, or did the handprint come from a failed attempt to save her? Were the fireworks Hubble mentions seeing when kissing his wife the same as the stars Liz sees when kissing Max? Could Sheila Hubble be related to Liz somehow – an aunt, DNA donor, or was Sheila an alien? The fact that Sheila Hubble was three months pregnant with a girl seems to be relevant somehow – why else would they mention it?! Could the DNA from the girl or a twin have been used for the pod squad – Max maybe, or Tess – or for Liz? AND why is Tess' mother's name listed as Sheila Harding on her school records? Everett Hubble, Ed Harding - both EH names with a wife named Sheila - INTERESTING! Ummmm!

WOW!!!!!! hehe. that was it!! I feel special!!! You guys are awesome. I was rewatching season 1 eppys, and somebody was right! In the pilot, when liz is asking max questions her necklace does go on then off then on then off then on.....etc...

ok well i am gonna go try to uncover more awesome thingymabobs!!!! hehe. Ok.

Syndee

quote:Originally posted by :Metaphysicalgrl
My guess as to the whole Sheila Hubble thing? One of the shapeshifters were posing as Sheila to either get closer to Hubble to see what he was up to ...

When Hubble went into the store, the shapeshifter simply switched and put Sheila's body ...back in the car, and got the hell outta dodge.
Meta, I am mercilessly editing your theory because it has inspired me: I am thinking about how Liz got the dead Sheila flash when she kissed Nasedo, so Nasedo must have been thinking of offing Liz (just like he did Sheila when/if he posed as Hubble)...but he didn't try to off Liz...is this a change in the script direction or a change in Nasedo's character or because Max and Liz have the wet cement thing going on? And if Sheila was also "changed" (think fireworks kisses) who changed her?

quote:Originally posted by :MissLParker
FM and FL assume that they did not have a complete unit because Tess left. Obvious choice. I think the reason FM only trusted Liz is because he knew just how alienated (no pun intended) Tess was.

Oh, and actually the action figure Liz has white tennis shoes:

quote:Originally posted by :Celtic Princess
In some weird twisted way, Kivar could be Ava & Zan's son. Actually, that sounds just about right except I think they hadn't had kids yet. Maybe Zan's or Ava's brother?

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

Nemo-rewatched Summer of 47-even slo-moed LOL--I found two building numbers--one was building 421 the other was building 7354-the second one was the one with the morgue---the 421 building I believe was the hangar building---didn't see a number for the exchange I hope that helps.

So, I saw an interesting movie this evening. Mission to Mars. Has anyone seen it???? It was a very interesting movie, but there were a couple of things about it that were very Roswelian....

1. The humans at one point were using musical tones to communicate something to 'aliens, another lifeform, some entity which they at the time could not identify'. When they played this musical sequence it was startingly similar to the tones that the alien communicator gave out at the end of Destiny (think Howie D when the alien communicator lights go on around the world). I wasn't thinking about Roswell while watching the movie, but when I heard this music my radar went off. Trust me when I say I have big ears (music-wise, that is - my actual physical ears are not that big) so they were definitely very similar. Whether that means the music guy at Roswell saw the movie and that theme was stuck in his subconscious, I don't know...but I thought it was worth mentioning.
2. At the end of the movie one of the characters takes off in a 'spaceship' to the 'aliens' new home...they show a shot of the ship heading towards what really, really looked like the swirl (m/l) symbol. This scene was pretty soon after the musical tone one, so I started thinking maybe this wasn't such a coincidence?

Anyway, stop reading if you don't want spoilers about the movie....
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So the premise of this movie is that the U.S. finally makes this mission to mars - insert a lot of drama and action here -- and at the end of the movie they come across this other race, which seems to be human in nature. To make a long story short, this alien shows the humans that Mars used to be a 'green' planet like earth until a huge meteor hit the planet. They show it slowly turning to the red planet that we know as Mars. During this transition, however, they show these 'human-like aliens' exiting the planet in little ships towards this new galaxy (the swirly symbol galaxy I mentioned before). Except one ship takes their 'human' DNA and heads for Earth. They show the ship crashing into the ocean back when the continents hadn't even split yet on earth. They show this DNA creating life on earth...and how this one strand of DNA evolved over time into humans. Through dialogue they tie this into the mystery of how life suddenly appeared all of a sudden millions of years ago on earth. The 'aliens', which the audience now realize is humans, are obviously more evolved than we are - but it's clear that they are the same as us, and they were the ones that 'seeded' earth with the DNA neccesary for their race to survive and prosper on another planet.

This really has nothing to do with anything, except that it was a totally cool concept. I know that we have discussed theories like it on this thread before, so I figured I would share it. Very cool concept, no? I'm sure I didn't do it justice in the re-telling, but it was definitely a cool twist on the whole life & evolution theories.

Anyway, sorry this post was so long!

{~}:}

I came across this cool chart of Petroglyphs in some reading I was doing on the internet (not Roswell related ) and I just thought it interesting that some of the symbols resemble (not exact, but reminiscent of) the symbols we have seen so far on Roswell.

Petroglyphs are images carved or pecked into a rock face using stone tools. Human-like (anthropomorphic), animal and bird (zoomorphic) images are common, as are circles, spirals, dots, lines, and other geometric and abstract forms.

In any case, this really doesn't mean a thing, but I'm always fascinated in trying to see what could have been the inspiration (for the writers) on some of the things we see on the show. The symbols had to be inspired by something, you know!

Sorry, this was kind of OT and had absolutely nothing to do with Liz, I just thought some of you might enjoy it.

{~}:}

Okay, yet another Sheila Hubble theory inspired by Kyle's line from TEOTW:
"We, uh...we're the only two people I know of who have died and were brought back by an alien."
The bolding is added because why would the writers have added those words in a script where every spare scrap must be trimmed away to make room for advertisements?
How about if Sheila was either Atherton's daughter or granddaughter (I looked at the timeline and figured she could be either), and some would-be fatal illness or trauma befell her, and Nasedo (or another alien) healed her. Then, Atherton decided to sell out his info for some reason, or Nasedo thought a Pierc-like character was about to torture the info out of him, so Nasedo eliminated them. Maybe the pregnancy was what made it imperitive (the baby would have had alien powers or something).

I have one entraty.Please put this onto the Arhive (or someone else)site and make it downloadible.It is so great!

----------------
My random thougths:
Maybe aliens abducted Hubble wife and replaised her by shapeshifter than Hubble did'nt aware of this.(whith shapeshifter Hubble get this fireworks).But Shielas hart dont carry this experiment and she die.They trie bring her back (silverhandprint) but not sucessed.Then aliens shifted wife back.
Im don't remembered but there is no any not of this that her body has any mark damage of high temperature (like Pierce body or FBI guys).And same thing is whith Aterton's body, maby he has infarkt or something and the "man" tried heal him?(River Dog said he don't see what exactly happen).
Whay Liz get this flash from Nasedo?Maybe he feel guilty for Shiela but the other guys from FBI are only part of fight to home?
---------
sry.gram.sry.silliness.

Well, maybe grammar, but I don't think it's silly--you are a great RBIer! I tried to 'translate' a little, I hope I didn't change your meaning.

I always thought that maybe Nasedo tried to heal (not kill) Atherton -- that is what happened in the Roswell High books. Good point on there not being any mention about damage to their bodies like there was to Pierce's!. And I hadn't thought about Brody's heart trouble in relation to the possible heart trouble of Atherton (and maybe Sheila!), in the books, Max tries to heal a man of a heart attack (but the man dies). Now, since the writers have had Brody have heart trouble from being a "temp," maybe they will say Atherton was a temp too. And maybe Sheila too (maybe Maria needs to kiss Larek to see if she gets fireworks from him ). But there is also the thing Hubble says about the people killed by the shapeshifter: that they were just innocent people in the wrong place at the wrong time. Too many possibilities!
I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens next. But it's hard to wait. I wonder if Roswell has spawned more fan fiction than any other show ever?

P.S.: To download Zero's Introduction:
Scroll to the bottom of the screen and click on "Print Page."
It will take a while for the page to load if you have a slow connection like mine at home.
Then just click on File/Save As to save it. You can edit out the other posts from the first page to have just Zero's Intro.

Ok and during the MOM'OGRAM the mother could have been talking about L iz when she said Max's true bride. For all we know, if Liz hadn't been there, it never would have gone off!

ANd how come, when (brody) aaa...the alien that inhabits brody...? hmm..what was that??!?? Ok well that dude that takes over Brody, when he talks to max about his bride, why doesn't he say TESS? OR AVA? or even look in her direction!?! He never once SAYS THAT TESS IS THE BRIDE!!!

And when Nicholas is talking to Max trying to figure out between Tess and Liz who is the bride, Max says (about liz) leave her out of this she's human..or something like that. So Nicholas didn't know which was the bride? Why not?!

ANd when he's talking to Max b4 the mindraping, he says "you always put your trust in the wrong people" and I SWEAR HE LOOKS RIGHT AT TESS!!!!

hmmmmmmmmmm?? Good?

Antar (which used to be 3 planets) was a matriarchy, up until Liz was to reign. She did not feel as though she would be a good leader and let Max (who was king of the two other planets in the V) rule. She was Max's "first wife" and the balancing force that made Max a kind and benevolent king. Together they had a "golden age" of sorts, where two kingdoms came together, and had huge prosperity and there was a large amount of peace.

Kivar, who worked for Max as an advisor, wanted Liz and the kingdom for himself, so he picked up Tess from the streets, knowing that she would be the force that would make Max be a tyrant. He mindwarped Max into believing that Tess was the one for him and that Liz did not love him etc, and Max began to treat Liz horribly, and when she discovered that Max had been cheating on her (when she was pregnant with their child... she later hides this child on another planet before running off with kivar.) with Tess, she ran straight into the arms of Kivar. Liz, has another child by Kivar, but this child is completely Human and will die if it lives on Antar, so she sends it to earth. So during her pregnancy with Kivar's child (who turns out to be Grandma Claudia) they plot their take-over, and Liz grows to hate Max more and more each day (Kivar is drugging her.) So when they attack, Liz sees Max and Tess together, begging for their lives, and she kills Tess... then collapses next to Max, where they both are extremely sad, and make up etc. (Max realizes that he was mindwarped and Liz finds out she was drugged.) So Kivar, who is extremely POed kills them both.

Insert Serena, (who was more of a Liz supporter than anything else), and she scrapes up their essenceses and creates the hybrids. (Max, Micheal, Is, and Maria (who was completely human and crossed with Alien blood))

Knowing that Liz is the most important element, she crosses liz with a completely human embryo (Grandma Claudia's Daughter's), and her alien side won't awaken unless there is a catalyst (eg. Max healing her.) The only problem is that once she has sex in this form she cannot grow any further, and this is the real reason that FMax was sent back to Liz was to stop them from having sex. But FMax was not told this, and was told that Tess was the real reason that everyone died. Pretty much Serena could care less about Max, but wants Liz to grow into "the balance" (which was also thwarted the second that M&L made love.) "the balance" is a goddess of sorts, and she is said to unite the two worlds and rid each world of evil. But when Liz becomes "the balance" she looses herself... and cannot love etc. She must remain a virgin, and commit to this ultimate act of self sacrifice.

Thank you very much! You translate all OK!

Hubble: - for him any exuses for revenge are good!(Remember what he do to Valenti father?)
He want give payback to his wife killer in any cost.
In TWR Pierce says there are FBI agents who was killed by aliens.But...

And many thanks for PS.
sry.gram.

Also, in that eppy Maxcedo leaves that same swirly silverish handprint on that gas pump that Tess left on the library wall when she got the stupid destiny book. Are they BOTH shapeshifters? Nacedo=nacedo and Tess=Tic Tac??!

Also I heard a quote
max talking to tess " An innocent woman died because she got in your way!! " max talking about sheila!! How did sheila get in nacedo's way??

"...and I will not be a part of anything as evil as you." max talking to tess. YOU GO BOY!! why can't he say that now!?!? ok i'mm leaving to watch more....bye!

And if Sheila was also "changed" (think fireworks kisses) who changed her?

maybe the Dupe's protector/the other shapeshifter did? He was the one to mention the effects of healing someone. How else would he know what would happen?

by the way, incredible job on the intro, Zero, you are amazing.

About Liz & Ava
I think Liz and Ava got on well because they are a lot alike, personality-wise. Both are quiet, unassuming, "nice" girls. I believe that this is what proto-Max, and our Max, so like about them. Tess, brought up by "Harding", has herself been "changed". She has been brought up to be much more self-assertive, even aggressive. This is to defend herself against the FBI, and to put her with Max. Unfortunately, this side of Tess isn't what Max has loved before. The "nice" Tess, that we see sometimes, is the one he married way back on Twilo.

image from intro.

and

Whirlpool Galaxy images by Chuck Faranda
(Star Hill Inn, New Mexico)
---------
sry.

Thanks for all the kind words everyone! They are always appreciated!

Met – I think the Petroglyphs are totally cool ! I too am interested in where the creators got their inspiration – and some of these ancient drawings look like they could easily been the inspiration for some of the Roswell symbols and signs! I haven’t watched that movie though my husband watched it with my kids while I was out of town a while back. My oldest thought it was a great movie! He love that kind of stuff!

Crazy – It will be interesting to see if the Sheila Hubble connection is finally brought in again. Shapeshifter – I like your theory about previous healings that might tie her in! And Vihmakass – your take on this too is interesting.

Syndee – You should look at the Atlantis theory in the Intro – I think you will like it!

Also – Shapeshifter – I’m glad you found my comment about my Intro having to be split in two funny! We are an odd bunch! I may take you up on that Idea though. Let me think about it, and I will e-mail you! Thanks!!

Whoever said the Liz action figure looks like she is retaining water - - I agree!

Celtic Princess – I don’t know anything about Sailor Moon – but if you see parallels, please bring them over and let us digest them!

I’ve been speed watching all of season 2 (I’ve been sick), and I wish I had some great insights, but only one thing jumped out at me that was new. The fact that the representatives from the other planets represented ruling families. Now – some of you may remember my comment a few threads back about monarchies, and how surprising it is to me that such an advanced civilizations (as far as technology goes) would still be ruled (seemingly strongly) by a King. Now, I come to realize that ALL 5 of the planets appear to be so ruled! Now, the introduction of a democracy might be just the thing that would case such an up-roar that would cause the downfall of the ruler trying to introduce it and the battles that have ensued since. Just a little thing, but of interest – at least to me!

Crazy – quote: ANd when he's talking to Max b4 the mindraping, he says "you always put your trust in the wrong people" and I SWEAR HE LOOKS RIGHT AT TESS!!!!
You are right – Nike does look right at Tess! There is NO Mistake how we are supposed to interpret that scene!

Gretchen – Welcome ! to our little Thread! What a fun theory! You should write a fan fic! Though I don’t know if I like the idea of Liz having to remain a virgin forever! I do want Liz and Max together someday – though I can wait a while – I want them to have a well “balanced” relationship first!

Fman608 – I’m not sure who was involved, but I’m sure there is another shapeshifter (at least one more) out there nicknamed Tic Tac – I like to think of him as a protector to Liz, too, somehow for some reason.

Reggie – I agree – we have missed Qfanny!! And I too think Liz is totally human, BUT I like the ancient alien connection theory.

TVPooh – I hope you could read all the Intro!

Finally, Vih – wonderful pictures of the Whirlpool Galaxy! Amazing!

StarBox – THANK YOU for the image gallery!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
Celebrating a BD tomorrow – no fooling!

Zero: Excellent Intro, you must have broken some kind of record for the longest summery ever. It's so amazing how you manage to connect all are theories and research and have them make sense. JK could really use you to help out his writers. Oh and thanks Zero for including my posts, I feel so unworthy.

I was watching VLV today and I noticed that Liz was doing an experiment with pig embryos. I had read something about pig-human embryo experiments and I was wondering
if this is how the Roswell hybrids were
created. Read the article below but replace
pig cells with alien cells.

Spawn of Ziffel
by Heather Quinlan
October 27, 2000 — In the latest chapter of real-life Dr. Moreau experiments, it has been revealed that scientists have successfully produced a pig-human embryo by injecting human DNA into pig (alien) cells.

The researchers, from Stem Cell Sciences in Australia and Biotransplant in America, took a human fetus cell, extracted the nucleus and then inserted it into a pig's (aliens) egg cell.

It's also not known what has become of these hybrid embryos — the researchers suggest that they could continue to grow in either a human or pig womb,(or a pod?) but may not actually become living beings. If they do survive, they'd be more human than pig, with 97 percent of the DNA coming from humans. There would, however, be some effect from the 3 percent pig DNA. (effect being powers)

So what do you think, are the hybrids 97% human and only 3% alien? We know that the DNA was taken from the humans and not the aliens, after reading the article it does appear that they are mostly human.
We also have Liz, the want to be molecular biologist doing the experiment. Could Liz's DNA donor be the scientist who created the hybrids? Michael had similar traits as his donor so it makes sense that Liz would also. Just how much time did King Zan spend in the lab with his abducted humen scientist? Did she become his bride, or was his bride her alien donor?

Evid

I still can't see anything beyond the first page of the intro but it sounds like we're off to a great start! Happy Birthday Zero!!

REMEMBER:
LIZ IS SO NOT AN ALIEN !!!!

Hi! Who said that Liz actually 'becomes' the balance? Max could always stop that from happening... (Liz would have already been more developed than the previous timeline...) or Serena could find a way to cross the balance's powers with Liz w/o making Liz be a virgin for the rest of her life and we can have max and liz jr.

Oh this is all going to eventually be part of my fanfic in progress.

Crazy4Roswell16: No you are not slow. I might not have explained myself very well. Yes I ment that IF Liz is the hybrid bride, the human scientist that created Liz might have used her own DNA plus the alien brides DNA to create Liz. Liz has always taken an interest in the type of science it would take to create the hybrids, so I was trying to connect her to the person that was the creater. I thought the scientist might be a human abducted because Liz seems to have the same love for science as her human donor might have, Michael looked and had the same traits as his human donor. I also thought that King Zan might have fallen in love with this humen scientist on Antar (maybe his alien bride was already dead at the time) and that is why Max recognized Liz. Liz would look like the human not the alien donor. Could you imagine if Liz had 97% of the DNA from a human that Zan loved combined with 3% of his alien bride that he loved. Two great loves wrapped into one would drive poor Max nuts if he lost her. Does sound like Liz don't you think? I hope I cleared that up for you.

Evid

Liz recognizes herself as the smallest of small town girls. Making her an alien would not keep her true to the character Melinda Metz envisioned.
Liz herself has a hard time accepting her "changed" status. She is looking for the changed in MITC.
Liz can trace her ancestors in Roswell by at lest 4 generations.
Liz-Max atrraction is founded on the principle that it's okay to be different.
Liz states Grandma Claudia is the basis of her existance - recognizing a normal family line.
[*] FutureMax suggests that she would be better off with a human - and suggests Kyle. Kyle has also been changed and has retained a human status.

Lastly, having Liz be found to be alien would destroy the whole Roswell premise of human/alien interaction so critical to season one. Liz as an alien theories were first developed to help bring a way to overcome Destiny or the obsticles of differences. When Max says it can't be at the end of Pilot, Liz completes his statement with "Different" "We're just different." The overcoming of differences is a univerisal theme and is a struggle to which we all could relate. I really wish that I could just magically make my differences disappear, but it just doesn't work that way. In order to maintain Liz as the special, intiutive character she is, I do not want to see her differences to magically disappear. For this reason, I am still disappointed in the success of the "altered" theory. But know that we do know that Liz is "altered" and does has the power to astral project, it is right and fair to have Kyle be the same way.

I love Liz. She is be far my favorite character on the show. I find her fascinating and admire her as the born leader she is.... Making her alien would make her less special in my eyes. There is something more remarkable about Liz Parker as a human, a key friend to the Royal Four, than there would be if Liz Parker turned out to be yet another alien in Roswell. Aliens have been run of the mill during season two, but there's no one like Liz! I like her as a human and I think everyone else here does too. She is the core character to which I can relate to.

Zero - lovely introduction as always... Two posts now huh?

Liz Parker is my favorite character as well, and whether she turns out to be fully human, part alien, intended to be alien, an alien of a different race, an alien hiding in human form or any other scenerio you can come up with she will still be my favorite character because of the nature of her character and how she conducts herself and relates to the humans and aliens around her LOL. Whatever scenario makes for better storytelling is more important to me than boxing myself in to one mindset.

I do however want a very reasonable explanation for what appears to me to be some kind of RECOGNITION from the minute little Max Evans in kindergarten stepping off the bus and doing a doubletake on Liz Parker and her staring back at him. Now whether this recognition comes from simply history repeating itself and past alien visitations to earth that is fine or whether there is some deeper story in the past alien life makes no difference to me, great storytelling is all that is important to me.

I will say one more thing about your Liz is not an Alien---the way I have been feeling about the aliens in Season2--I would be glad if this statement were true LOL!!!

Crazy4Roswell16-been enjoying you picking up on all the observations we have all discussed b4.

Hello GraceKel i also think Liz is definately not atleast not an antarian unless she goes back to waaaaay back beginning origins. I loved Evid idea (but WHY pigs...ewww....just sounds wrong ) about King Zan falling in love with his head scientist but what makes me think couldn't it have been possible perhaps the scientist wasn't Liz I in human form but perhaps an old ancestor and wouldn't the scientist want to mix from the best scientist brain stuff in?? I also need a good explanation as to why they recognized each other when they were little and nothin seems 'solid' so far closest idea so far (?) being Evid's .

ps Zero was it your ?? Well if I was dreaming then disregard but if it was!!!

pss QFanny you have really pretty huge blue eyes !! Its cool seeing what people look like in person next to how you imagine they might look like. Sue me but you make so much logical sense that I even thought u were a guy ...sowwy me?

It's okay about thinking that I was a guy.. We all have psydeonyms here and may not want to reveal our genders... Although, most of us here are female - as Reggie would state.

Amen, I say to that! I totally agree with you on that one! Well said!

Bistyboo1974

...having Liz be found to be alien would destroy the whole Roswell premise of human/alien interaction so critical to season one. Liz as an alien theories were first developed to help bring a way to overcome Destiny or the obsticles of differences.

...For this reason, I am still disappointed in the success of the "altered" theory. ...
Ah, now I see why you were opposed to the changed Liz. I totally agree with you in that an alien Liz removes the whole focus of the alien/human relationships, but I guess I can accept a changed Liz because she is still HUMAN!!

quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
...I do however want a very reasonable explanation for what appears to me to be some kind of RECOGNITION from the minute little Max Evans in kindergarten stepping off the bus and doing a doubletake on Liz Parker and her staring back at him...GraceKel, cover your eyes while I post this theory one more time in hopes that TPTB will see and say 'Oh Yea' :
Max would recognize Liz because FM had already known her and/or because Zan visited earth as Max in a time travel to scope out the future lay of the land.

As for the things I'd like to see address shortly.

Tess is not the true bride. I find it hard to believe that Izabel is refered to as Vilondra, Michael as second in command, Max as King and yet no-one refers to Tess directly as the "bride". That's rather telling to me. Obviously she has some purpose but not as queen.

It makes sense the royal 4 was carefully hidden away, Liz as the bride, obviously has a great importance to them and has been even more carefully hidden away. Why else would Nasedo rescue her and leave Max to Agent Pierce. Of course you could say that he knew that if Pierce got Liz that he wouldn't be able to stop Max going after him. Still, Liz is only a human and he's supposedly protecting his leader so why Liz and not Max?

It also bothers me that Nasedo who should have more knowledge of how they came to be there not only did he not tell them anything but he was in the pod chamber with them and didn't even tell them about the granolith. He must have known about it, about it's importance. Shouldn't he have warned them and told them why it's so important to all the planets involved? How can you protected them if you have them running ignorant of their own past?

How can he "diddle" Whittaker and not know she's a skin? Either she really kept her skin moisturised or he was on their side and outlived his purpose when they thought he was double crossing them or with holding information. Like the knowledge of who the real queen was.

Why would Whittaker go after Izabel to "protect" her from the others? Why would Tess hold such little value to her, surely as the "bride" she must have some sort of importance. All of this comes back to Tess not being who she says she is or who she thinks she is.

And last but not least for goodness sakes why won't Max ask Liz about her knowledge of the granolith? I find it hard to believe that if they are so eager to find out about their origins that they would let the slightest inconsistancy pass them by and this is pretty big. Liz has never seen the granolith, even the aliens knowing it was important to the skins have to wonder about its importance to the other planets. How doesn't Liz possess knowledge they they don't about something she hasn't even seen. Do they really expect me to believe they wouldn't ask her?
pauses from ranting and apologises to everyone after taking a deep, calming breath.

I just had to get that off my chest but I do hope TPTB takes a look at these things. From the indepth view I'm reading on this thread I think they should chose some of you as advisers. Well done.

Sorry if this is too long.

I agree with you QFANNY about not being an . I had this thought today. If the people from the podsters home planet can recreate someone's essence and can combine alien and human DNA to create a hybrid, why couldn't they just recreate them as aliens? Taking that question into account I will assume that there is something special about earth.
I think that in their recreation they were given certain gifts to compliment eachother as a group and to ensure their pairing for political reasons. In order for them to survive they have to stay together. As good of a plan as it may have seemed to Antarians, the Royal four, are only a fraction of their former selves.

As far as the connection between Liz and Max goes. It seems to me that the connection was recognized by Max first. Max was 6, but Zan's essence has been searching for that someone for a long time, his whole life on "Antar". So when Max saw her it was the Zan in him that knew she was the one he had been waiting for.
The Antarians are 3,000 yrs. ahead of us, so maybe we have all that they are within us but not yet developed. Maybe Max healing Liz has awakened those capabilities. Liz is changed and I think that is good because it closes that gap between her and Max, but I also love the idea that Max (Zan) finally found the person he feels completes him (Antarian or Not).
There connection was furthered by him healing her and reversing the connection. I imagine that cementing seals that connection according FM description in TEOTW.

I think that it would be interesting to know who Max'x donor was and if that contributes to his attraction to Liz.
(I have read a theory about past life memories being attributed to the memories of ancestors that are passed on through our genetic material, like we are remembering someone else's memory) I hope I explained enough to make sense.
So let's say that Grandma Claudia was once in love with Max's donor and that feeling of "not reaching their potential" lives with in them both (max and Liz). So the search for, and the fulfillment of, love culminates in Max/Zan when he found Liz.

I hope that makes sense you guys. Tell me what you think.

It all sounded great in my head but it comes out kinda crazy when I post it. I had another good thought about Liz and Max being changed through their "connection", but I can't remember

Can't wait to hear more of your thoughts everyone.

ZERO thanks for all of your hard work! Would it be possible for you to star new additions to the intro whenever you post one? I can never remember what I have read and what I haven't. Anyway that is just a suggestion. Thank you again.

I have to say that this bothers me too. Last season they would go grazy for anything that could be lead them to find out about their origins.....(ex.)drive across state lines because of a key and a vision AND NOW they have alien and alien conduits right there in Roswell and they NEVER ASK ANYTHING!

Whew! ::takes a deep breath:: I feel better now.

Pierce is an extremely complicated character, especially in light of CW's diary entries found at the silverhandprint.com and her "Run, Lola, Run" comment. Was Pierce the object of her ever-looping affection? Okay, perhaps finitely-looping affection would be more accurate. And, did she get it right and stop the loop? (aside: YES, I watched RLR last weekend...)

I can't explain why Nacedo diddled CW and didn't know she was a skin - I also can't explain how Pierce was shot in the shoulder or chest by Valenti as they were rescuing Max from The White Room but appeared fine in Valenti's office just a few hours later. He (DP) even refers to the shooting when he's talking to Jim but he shows no sign of injury that I can see.

So many of my unanswered questions are about Agent Pierce.

DID he die? When?

Who left Area 51 as Agent Pierce? Remember Nacedo stayed behind...

Who was held captive in the UFO center? Was that Pierce or Nacedo or TicTac or TicTacTess or someone else?

Was Pierce working for the FBI or was he an alien? Would that make him an agent or a double agent? Whittaker's diary introduces unanswered questions. There are plenty of bad guys to go around in this story but Pierce, imo, is one of the best. Very Sinister. (Plus he LOOKED so good...)

Perhaps it's time for me to have another look at CW's diary so I can refresh my memory about all ths.

Is there enough stuff here for a Pierce Conspiracy theory? (Starbox?)

I'm wondering if Pierce deserves his own "Importance to the Alien Mythology" thread...

Inquiring minds and all that...
Zara

Oh, and just to keep On Topic: Pierce certainly recognized the importance of Liz to the Alien agenda!

So many questions. I think Nasedo lied about alot of things, I just don't know which ones but I would like to know why.

Anyway, work tomorrow but hey, happy posting and goodnight everyone

Yes – Roswell Diva – I did celebrate a birthday today – no fooling – but so does my son, so most of the day revolves around stuff for him! We saw “Spy Kids” with a big group of kids – and it was a blast! Great story telling – Grace Kel – you would enjoy it!

Qfanny – great to see you here! I too want her to remain human, but am not concerned about the change – and go back to the ancient connection.

Whoever mentioned the new Disney Atlantis movie – I saw the trailer for it today, and there is a lot of resemblance to the Roswell alien writings/symbols. Should be a fun movie – with kids, I see all these movies eventually!

Hibiscuss – don’t apologize – you raise a number of valid questions!

Peaches192 – I’ve wondered the same thing – especially after the end of Season 1 where the “revised” version (Tess’ version?) of M/I/M leaving the pods involves Max going back to look at Tess before being called to leave by Iz. Given the memory that they all had of the events, you would think at least one of them would have remembered that there had been a fourth they had left behind??

Miss LP – Your past life memory stuff makes sense to me. It is one of the reasons it would have been interesting to see what Grandma Dupree looked like!

Also, I’ve thought of starring additions, but I tweak it so much that it would have stars all over the place (like a solar system ). But I could star “big” additions.

Night all !
Zero
I Shall Believe!

Roswell1: http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/006388.html

WB: http://talk.thewb.com/read.php?f=1&i=74328&t=74328

Okay, I am ROTFL! And here I thought I was the only one... You bet I'm going to check out the page now!

Good day, all!

Zara

and letter B was "Whirlpool galaxy" and of course we all know that's not the answer because it can only be seen when Liz kisses Max!

Whew! ::takes a deep breath:: I feel better now.

For complete relief, join the CHADs thread! No, it won't relieve your wondering about plot holes or dangling bits...
but you'll be relieved to know that others are disturbed, too!
(Err- that is, disturbed by the plot problems... )

I had a comment on MissLParker’s comment about the Royal Four. I believe that Tess and Michael were of another race and were royalty of that race. I also think they are brother and sister, which was supposed to be revealed in Destiny, but the writer’s didn’t want to go down that road most likely because they would have to get into Michael always wanting a family angle and that would take up too much time. Anyway, although Max/Zan is/was the King of Antar and the 5 Ruling Planets, I think that Zan was maybe a King of another race, but not THE King and was still under the command of Zan. Just like it was in Biblical times. King Herod was a king but not THE King. Make sense? Anyone?

Val—in regards to Niko feeling Tess’s power—I think he could feel something. That is why he threw down that milkshake. He knew something was not right. But he couldn’t find anything because what he saw was a mindwarp. She said she never “went up against a power like that before.” That means it was harder for her to mindwarp him. Niko couldn’t control her because he didn’t know she was there.

Qfanny—nice picture with you and Nick W. He is a cutey, isn’t he?

Quote by Metaphys
Did we ever think of the possibility of Sheila Hubble being a skin? Getting close to Hubble because he was a known 'alien hunter' and the skins though perhaps Hubble could lead them to the royal 4 or their protectors? Perhaps Yvonne White is really Sheila Hubble.

Hubble wasn’t an alien hunter until after his wife was killed.

Quote by peaches182
Hi everyone! I love this thread. It really makes you think as well as drive you crazy..but this one question has been nagging me..why didn't Max and Iz sense Tess? Max told Liz, I think in Balance, that they (Max and Iz) knew someone else was there (Micheal). Well, if Tess was his bride don't you think he would be able to tell that she was there just like he did with Micheal? Any ideas?

My guess would be that Tess isn’t supposed to be there? But Max did sense Liz, right?

Quote by Zara
I can't explain why Nacedo diddled CW and didn't know she was a skin - I also can't explain how Pierce was shot in the shoulder or chest by Valenti as they were rescuing Max from The White Room but appeared fine in Valenti's office just a few hours later. He (DP) even refers to the shooting when he's talking to Jim but he shows no sign of injury that I can see.

Pierce has a sling on in the Tessovisions. But he doesn’t seem to have anything on when he is captured by the PodSquad. Hmmmmmmm. Interesting!

to you, Zero!

Now that I've done that I can get some work done!

I think she was a very good mimic, and/or the skin-suit delivered more sensory input than the usual five. They were probably designed that way to begin with....

Whadya all think??

The overcoming of differences is a universal theme and is a struggle to which we all could relate. I really wish that I could just magically make my differences disappear, but it just doesn't work that way. In order to maintain Liz as the special, intiutive character she is, I do not want to see her differences to magically disappear. For this reason, I am still disappointed in the success of the "altered" theory.

Don't think of it as "altered". Think of it as "taught". A child can be taught to use their musical talent for playing the piano: it couldn't before, but the child isn't altered, is it? Well, Liz has been taught to use her talent for astral projection. Same Liz, just more educated.

As for making your differences "magically" disappear, I know of one difference you made APPEAR. I've even seen your MOB picture... and true to your name, there's something else "Q"te besides your eyes!

I'm "sure" I could make my difference magically disappear, too: they keep advertising so many magical weight loss things on the radio, one of them must work. Right?

Whadya all think??

There was at least one dead adult alien, wasn't there?

On Roswell, yes, but the final answer to the million dollar question is Whirlpool. I always figured TPTB changed it so they wouldn't have to be accurate with the sci part of the sci fi, and Maytag Galaxy was a little campier than they were willing to do.

Zara

Crazy4Roswell16 doesn't it just make you wonder exactly how many of the alien protectors they are out there?

Yah it does!! I mean, if they had 9 coffins it either means that there were 9 hybrids (which is a possiblity...think 5th element) or that only one of the protectors died in the crash. Which means 2 (not including nacedo who's dead ) could still be alive!! maybe tic tac and serena?? That's a possiblity. Even though pierce said two died, maybe one of them really didn't or both..i dunno..i 'm just rambling aren't i? Yah, i am..so i'll leave!! Bye.

You're right Reggie, and QFanny yes, they certainly are very pretty !

What's going on we are on the third page!!! Where is everyone?

I noticed something on VLV. When Max is leaving for the airport and Maria tries to stop him he said, "I'm going home." They cut to the next scene and we see that he has gone to see Liz. He tells her that he is heading back to Roswell. He doesn't say home to Liz because he is already there, Liz is his home.

Evid

Reggie-yes love at first sight is one explanation but I hope its more complicated than just that myself. Afterall GC said well if it isn't complicated he probably isn't a soulmate LOL.
I also meant to comment on your scenario about Summer of 47 hints of a female ss because of possible use of mind warp--yes this fits ITA.

and site adress is : http://casasrv.colorado.edu/~ajsh/schww.html#instability
----------------
btw. look the picture - is this our granilith?
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sry.gram

When I come up with some theories I'll be sure to post them... but first I have to think

~*~Jen~*~

I'm putting a link b/c some of the "translations" might be considered spoiler-ish. The link is www.hometown.aol.com/bethalani/roswell.html

Edited b/c I can't spell Vihmakass. Sorry!

Reggie, I prefer the love at first sight to a contrived other-Destiny, and it's possible that alien essences have a love-at-first-sightometers , but I think Max's VLV flashback gives credibility to my flashback/forward theory for the getting-off-the-bus recognition.

and site adress is : http://casasrv.colorado.edu/~ajsh/schww.html#instability
----------------
btw. look the picture - is this our granilith?
----------------
sry.gram

Interesting info! I'll try to clear it up a little for the people that haven't looked into wormholes, etc. In the quote, the word "horizon" probably refers to the event horizon a.k.a. point of no return in a black hole. Astronomists speculate that a wormhole exists when two black holes connect by bending space time. The picture is simply and illustration of how the two black holes come together so it wouldn't really compare to the granolith.

However we do know that that's kind of how the granolith enabled Max to time travel--by creating a tear in space time. And maybe the granolith could also enable travel to Antar by opening a wormhole to serve as a shortcut.
I love this kind of astronomy stuff--sorry if I bored anyone.

Edited to say: I know that the quote says that travel through wormholes would be impossible but, hey, it worked for Star Trek right?

"In principle, a wormhole could be stabilized by threading its throat with `exotic matter'. In the stable wormhole at left, the exotic matter forms a thin spherical shell (which appears in the diagram as a circle, since the embedding diagram is a 2-dimensional representation of the 3-dimensional spatial geometry of the wormhole).
The shell of exotic matter has negative mass and positive surface pressure. The negative mass ensures that the throat of the wormhole lies outside the horizon, so that travellers can pass through it, while the positive surface pressure prevents the wormhole from collapsing.
In general relativity, one is free to specify whatever geometry one cares to imagine for spacetime; but then Einstein's equations specify what the energy-momentum content of matter in that spacetime must be in order to produce that geometry.
Generically, wormholes require negative mass exotic matter at their throats, in order to be traversible.While the notion of negative mass is certainly bizarre, the vacuum fluctuations near a black hole are exotic, so perhaps exotic matter is not utterly impossible.
A good reference is M. S. Morris & K. S. Thorne (1988), ``Wormholes in spacetime and their use for interstellar travel: A tool for teaching general relativity'', American Journal of Physics, 56, 395-412. "

and stable wormhole look like....

Have been unable to get onto the thread all day. I'm borrowing an aol account to get on - must be a problem with my Internet Explorer? I hope it is fixed by tomorrow!

Thanks for the BD wishes!!

I'm off for 10 days start 4/5 - with no internet access!! So, Shapeshifter has agreed to take care of the thread while I'm gone, and she will start #36 if need be!

If I can't get on tomorrow - then everyone have a great time discussion everything - like worm holes! I will be back on 4/16 - hopefully, all the thread kinks will have been worked out so I can access the threads!

Zero
I Shall Believe!

Anyway -
As for Liz as a human/alien - I dont really care as long as she is THE TRUE BRIDE!

Pierce as an evil alien
I definately believe Pierce had his own agenda - and I wonder if he and Nasedo were working together in some way.
Also - how did he get the dead Liz images he showed Max in WR - and werent they just a little creepily reminiscint of Sheila Hubble dead? He must have been waching and video taping Liz (to be able to doctor the images).

As for the Pierce/CW sex question. It wouldnt suprise me that her husband had sex but didnt know she was an alien. I would assume that a human could have sex with an alien and not know the difference - he may have just chalked up any "irregularities" to personal quirks or a skin condition - BUT - I would assume that an ALIEN having sex with an alien should have immediately been able to sense the difference. Especially since the podsters make a "connection" when they make physical contact - and Harding appeared to have similar abilities. Liz (with her alien-like ability to make a connection) immediately sensed that Nasedo/Max was an alien. So - I think that Pierce really SHOULD have known about CW.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

Did anyone else notice that the backwards "Liz" appears on the page labeled "fetus stage" too? It's below Michael's picture and above Tess's picture. It's not on the page with the podsters as six-year-olds, but it reappears on the page that we've discussed before, above the picture of Isabel (or whoever). Any thoughts about this?

Edited because I haven't thanked Zero for the new thread. Your intro was beyond great!! Oh, and happy birthday!!! Starbox, much thanks to you as well for the picture gallery !

This really doesn't have anything to do with Liz but, I just re-watched MTD and I noticed that when Zan and Rath were discussing going to the summit, Zan said that they didn't want the number 2, they wanted the Royal four. It sounds like he is reffering to the other Royal four (maybe the true Royal Four?)

Also, Rath said they contacted them AGAIN, with the SAME invite, so maybe there was another summit meeting. I would be interested in finding out how they were contacted, was it another "abducted" guy?
Well gotta go...

The Destiny Book is NOT ETCHED, it is a STENCIL. You can SEE THROUGH it. What this might mean is that it is part of a code cipher. In looking at bethalani's reproductions of the book, it appears that there are blacked out holes. These holes would represent circles that you CAN SEE THROUGH in the book. But what does that mean.
Well, maybe it means that we take the Destiny Box and match up one of the sets of symbols and see where the circles fall on the cave map. Perhaps those symbols which fall into those circles are the clue to solving the answer to The Destiny Book? Does it work? I don't know yet. bethalani? Anyone else? What do you think? Does it mean sense? Does it bring us any closer?

Sorry it is so off topic but i was just wondering!!

Well I am still catching up because I couldn't get on Fan Forum all of yesterday!
I read some Fanfic thins morning to get me through it. I read a Max and Liz story called "Choices". I really liked it. It had cool imagery and interesting theories on alien mating.
I'll be back. Happy speculating!

--Liz is the the TRUE BRIDE---

Roswell-Isms link (this is a funny site that uses Roswell lingo as slang): http://hometown.aol.com/iculkn86/myhomepageindex.html

I see that I was beat to the punch in posting the destiny book decodings: http://www.hometown.aol.com/bethalani/roswell.html

For those that can’t link here are the destiny pages:
Cave Map

Page 1 & 2 of Destiny Book:

Page 3&4 of Destiny Book:

Pictures at infancy:

Pictures as 6 year olds:

Pictures as Adults:
[img] http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/bethalani/roswell7.jpg[/IMG]

Okay, there are too many. These will have to do for now!

Edited to say: I know that the quote says that travel through wormholes would be impossible but, hey, it worked for Star Trek right?

It is that very theory that I believe is the granolith's ultimate purpose. Nicolas was very interested in getting his hands on the device and in Whittaker's journal, she mentioned many times they were stuck on Earth. During EoTW, Max told Liz that time travel wasn't exactly the granolith's purpose suggesting that it does in fact HAVE a purpose. Since dialogue in "Max in the City" states there will be no ships to come bring them home, the granolith seems to be the most logical way home.

And yes, wormholes worked on Star Trek. But I need to make one statement about wormholes there: only in one case were they stable. The wormhole on Deep Space 9 was an artificial one created by the aliens who lived in it. There is evidence to support this.

In the first Star Trek film, an imbalance in the matter / anti-matter mix created a wormhole and caught the Enterprise in it. Cutting back on their speed escaped it. Scotty then states that the imbalance created the wormhole in the first place.
The Next Gen episode "The Price" had a wormhole. It was a link to the gamma quadrant but by the end of the episode, it was found to be unstable and it's entrance and exit disappeared trapping two Ferengi 75,000 light years from home.
An episode of Voyager also featured a wormhole. In this one, the crew established contact with a romulan ship on the other side that lead to the alpha quadrant. They managed to successfully beam the romulan from the other side to Voyager but with extreme difficulty. At the end, they learned that the wormhole did indeed lead to the alpha quadrant but the alpha quadrant in the distant past.

Them wormholes. They are tricky thangs.

Chad Evans
"Because you can do impossible things." -Dar to Curupira in "The Demon Curupira."

There was one

Chad Evans: Thanks for the Star Trek tie-ins. I was thinking recently about the wormhole aliens and how they were an important element in keeping the wormhole stable. Maybe they could be the comparable to Liz on Roswell? Obviously something went wrong in '47 so maybe Liz is the key to stabilizing the granolith wormhole for use in the future? (She was there when FMax successfully time-travelled and obviously affected the granolith somehow when she touched it.) Anyway, I had to find some way to tie Liz into this whole granolith mess and I think we would all like to see her have an importance in the granolith's functionality.

Woohoo--new page!

Trying to grasp the whole worm hole thing...

We see flashes of her when Nacedo kidnapped Liz, and we also see Sheila standing at the base of the stage right below Jonathon Frakes as the countdown for the crash festival ends in the Pilot episode. At that point we didn't even know who she was but if you go back and view it post-UFO Convention it's definitely Sheila.

Alot of people have theories about her - she and Liz resemble in a generic kind of way. Tess' school record listed a Sheila Harding as her mother - some folks tie the Sheilas together. There's speculation about her being related to Grandma Claudia and/or Yvonne White; it's also thought she might be one of the donors. Perhaps her baby was special -- ANY unresolved clues in the story line are free for association with Sheila, really. Qfanny and Shapeshifter may have a page on her in their archives! Anyway, she's an interesting character, and she definitely appeared alive, well and the age she was when she died (1970) when she was spotted in the Pilot episode, sometime during the third week of September, 1999!

Hope this helps,
Zara

Everyone keeps talking about Liz's powers. I think that her flashes through Nasedo are the emergence of said powers. When she kisses or is touched by Max, she usually gets a flash. They are strong ones because the two are connected. Liz kisses who she thinks is Max. She's open to thoughts and images. The ones she get come from Nasedo. They are dark and distorted. This tells her that it's not Max she's kissing. If Micheal were able to change his appearance to look like Max, if he touched Liz she would probably know that it wasn't Max in that case too. In "Max in the City", Liz is able to send her image to Max to warn him.

I'm sure all of the Royals didn't just automatically know how to use their powers. They had to develop them and not even they know the full extent to which they can go. I believe Liz is the same way but since she is human, she may not have as easy of a time developing them like the others. It's just natural for the Four. Do you know anyone who can walk one day after being born? Nope. Same thing here.

Chad Evans
"Because you can do impossible things." -Dar to Curupira in "The Demon Curupira."

Great viewpoint. And even in my slumber - waking and otherwise droggy life - I have thought a great deal about "powers". Now, I have to believe that there is somesort of underlying logic to powers. There has to be a reason for them. There are the standard reasons - (think of Superman - different planet - different gravity pull). But it the realm of Roswell things don't have to make sense right??? Well, they still should have some factual reason for them.

So let's approach this a la Qfanny's backward's thinking. Let's assume that when Nasedo told Michael, "Your powers are human" - or something like that, that Nasedo was, YIKES, telling the truth. But was Nasedo telling a complete truth??? What if powers are the result of a complex cerebral cortex - brain. Now, I assume that biologically, our brains aren't probably that dissimiliar from other species - (I am refering to species on Earth). But human beings seem to possess a talent beyond walking upright and the opposible thumb. Human beings can create music. I read somewhere that this capability is unique to human beings. There is probably a Darwinian theory out there regarding the human species and the development of music. Youth that study music do better in school. I have heard, although I don't know if true, that music can make your brain work more effeciently. Assuming the smarts play a role in the survival of the fittest, I can see how this talent would be carried down from our ancestors.

Now, let's look to Twilo. Would these species of shapeshifter - pre/skins, whatever the heck we are dealing with - have some talents unique to them? Quite possibly if the talent and had direct relationship to the "survival of the fittest" in their evolution. What I am suggesting is, that MUSIC could be the human beings POWER. Of course, we don't see it that way because it seems so normal to us it's hard to step back and say, "Hey, that is sort of cool that we can make music."

So, I think what I'm trying to led up to is this thought. Aliens and humans are capable of the same powers M/Mi/I/T exhibit because functions in the brain. The Aliens can exhibit different powers than humans because their evolution different from ours. Nasedo could be saying, "Your powers are human" and leaving off an explanation, "...because your body is human." Tess has supported that they are tied to human bodies, which is why they cannot shapeshift.

Now, my husband Mr. Mariachi Max has told me that it took him a week to learn the lyrics to the song. Even though the lyrcis are in a different language, it seems odd that it would take him a week to learn the words when they are to music. I learn and remember song lyrics faster than I would reading a book. Heck, I remember mathematical formulas to song lyrics. Didn't we learn our ABCs as a song. So, what I am saying, is that yes, M/Mi/T/I do have "powers" but they are actually using an area of the brain that their essense can get to where we cannot. Mr Mariachi Max seems to have a harder time understanding music, but is not incapable of it. So all his powers are human, but his strengths are not what we would consider human.

And if this actually makes sense, I will be very happy.

quote:Originally posted by Qfanny:
... Mr Mariachi Max seems to have a harder time understanding music, but is not incapable of it. So all his powers are human, but his strengths are not what we would consider human....Hmmm...so maybe Liz is now "stronger." There is a line in Wipe Out where she says "we need to be strong."

Wow...QFanny...that's really cool! And it does make sense!! I thought nacedo was saying that Since today, humans only use 10 percent of their brain, that these "aliens" were just humans engineered to be advanced by many years so they use more of their brain...hence the powers. For all we know, in the future..if we were to get into a time machine and go to like 3001, people could be using a lot more of their brain and have similar powers. It is possible. people today who are "psychic" or have telekenesis have been studied and tests have shown that these people use a larger percent of their brain. Is that possibly what nacedo meant?

Now, let's look to Twilo. Would these species of shapeshifter - pre/skins, whatever the heck we are dealing with - have some talents unique to them? (...) Aliens and humans are capable of the same powers M/Mi/I/T exhibit because functions in the brain. (...) Nasedo could be saying, "Your powers are human" and leaving off an explanation, "...because your body is human." (...) So, what I am saying, is that yes, M/Mi/T/I do have "powers" but they are actually using an area of the brain that their essense can get to where we cannot. Mr Mariachi Max seems to have a harder time understanding music, but is not incapable of it. So all his powers are human, but his strengths are not what we would consider human.

And if this actually makes sense, I will be very happy.

So...
Humans have a unique talent for music, and Twilonians have a similar unique talent for "Powers"? These are seperate developments, unique to each of the two species? And that while both species could do both activities, we've developed the musical talent, and they've developed the "Powers" talent.

So in a few thousand years, the shapeshifters may be able to make music?

That actually makes sense, Qfanny. Scary.
See why we missed you so much?

and this one shows more pictures of shiri with the liz myth http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum12/HTML/002786-2.html

OMG...Isn't she so cute.

Amazing theory QF! So human beings can make music.... Antarians have powers. So why were the Antarian Royals sent to Earth? What inspires people to create music (some of the most beautiful, powerful music in the world)... human emotions, usually the epitome of human emotion. Love, anger, hate, passion, sadness, pride... etc. Pure emotion translated into different interpretations via music. Humans are capable of expressing themselves in a way which can effect others to such extents it inspires these corresponding emotions (through music).

Could the Antarians have sent the Royals to Earth because humans have a capability of expressing emotion in a way that they simply could not? I don't know what purpose this would hold exactly... but perhaps the Antarians thought if they sent their Royals to live amongst this sort of people... even expressing themselves an *iota* the way humans express themselves... they'd be better rulers? So this "love" that Tess seems to remember protoMax had for her... might indeed have been a form of "love"... but the Antarian definition of it. Humans experience "love" in an entirely different fashion... more substantial? More complete? This is probably ridiculously romantic... but I admit I really like the idea of the Royals being sent to Earth to be taught how to love, hate, fear (etc) as humans do. ProtoMax loved protoTess once.... but not enough that it effected our current HUMAN Max (no crying into the night as a child because he missed her, no pining, etc)... (human) Max loves Liz enough to give up *everything* for her (his quote at the end of AN). Max loves Liz so completely because he loves her in a human way. A kind of love Antarians are incapable of expressing?

Borrowed from Crashdown.com transcripts
MAX: No, that was the day my life began. Liz, when I was in that room, and they did what they did to me. You're what kept me alive. The thought of you. The way your eyes look into mine. Your smile. The touch of your skin. Your lips. Knowing you has made me human. Whether I die tomorrow or fifty years from now, my destiny is the same: it's you. I want to be with you, Liz. I love you.

Knowing Liz makes Max "human"... knowing Liz is why Max was sent to Earth in the first place? To a species that can create music. This was probably just a long ramble due to my insomnia, but I sometimes forget how much I love this thread. I needed to remind myself

Melodious

Regarding human's and their ability to make music... Someone mentioned that it is evolutionary, and I agree with that to an extent. Human's have used music in rituals from the dawn of mankind...drumming and chanting are powerful tools and every culture, from ancient to present day cultures use them to some extent - especially in religous ceremonies.

However, I think that human's abilities to make music have to do with our physiological make-up. Human's have 'vocal chords' that allow us to create different tones with our voices. Many other animals have this ability too, including whales and certain birds. Our music might be more advanced than those species, but I am of the opinion the sounds that whales make is a kind of music. I think making music is instinctive to humans, and the ability to do so has evolved over millions of years to the point where we are today. Of course with the advent of technology our music has evolved in ways Mozart never could have imagined...and it will continue to change as long as humans are around. However, I think that humans began to create music because it was instinctive - it is inherent to humans to use music in a myriad of different ways. We can use music to heal our bodies, to alter our brainwaves, to improve our emotional well being, to celebrate, to worship, to grieve, to dance, to communicate, to connect to the earth..you get the point.

You mentioned that music helps children to learn. This is very true. There are scientific studies out there that prove that music can have an effect on more than just your ability to learn. It can even effect your brainwave patterns and your ability to heal your body.

For example, Brainwave entrainment is an interesting phenomenon that has been scientifically proven to be an effective way of altering your state of consciousness. To summarize what this is, picture two pendulums swinging together, at first they are out of sync, but eventually due to a concept of entrainment, they will swing in unison. For you women out there, have you ever had the experience of living with another woman (be it a mom, sister, daughter, roomate or whatever) and eventually your menstrual cycles would slowly get in sync? Meaning, you would begin to get your periods at the same time? This is called entrainment. Brainwave entrainment is using music to align your brainwave patterns to what is being presented in a certain piece of music. Here’s How It Works. Every state of mind has a unique pattern of brainwaves—composed of alpha, beta, delta and theta waves—which can be measured and mapped. Musical brainwave entrainment blends subtle pulses of sound into a musical soundtrack, to stimulate your brain to produce waves with a pattern that matches the state you want to experience. Certain brainwave states have different benefits associated with each of them. When you are relaxed, more ALPHA Brainwaves are present, studies show that in states of meditation we produce a greater quantity of slow frequency THETA brainwaves, when we are sleeping we produce a greater quantity of DELTA brainwaves, BETA brainwaves are present when we are concentrating and problem solving. This ability to use music to change your brainwave patterns reminds me of Isabelle's ability to help Liz change hers when she held her hand and helped her to focus her energy on Max.

If you can use music to change your brainwave patterns, isn't that indicative that music is not so much 'learned' but instinctive??? I happen to know a lot of people who are self-taught musicians...meaning, they had no formal training but followed their intincts to create music (and in the process 'learned' how to do so).

I'm going to try to tie this information together with the alien's abilities. So, please bear with me.

Nasedo said that the alien's powers were human in nature, just advanced. It is proven that we only use a small portion of our brains. It has also been proven that people who meditate are learning to access more of their brains than people who don't. Something similar happens when you take LSD. By using this drug, you are accessing a part of your brain that you don't use in every day life. All of the alien's powers are kind of 'psychic' in nature...each of the abilities that we see the aliens as having have some basis in human reality (with coughsomecough creative license)...michael's powers could be described as Telekenesis, Isabelle's as remote viewing or telepathy, and so on and so forth. These are the types of things that humans should be able to do once they learn to access more of their brains... supposedly.

The thing that is common between all of these things, including music and psychic powers is energy. Energy has the ability to change things. Energy is what underlies everything. Break an atom in two, and what do you find? Energy.

Now, to go back to the Balance. The Balance is the alien 'energy'. Nasedo said He warned me, though, there was a risk. The balance can pull you in. It's a force that can change both your body and your mind unless you navigate it properly. Now, clear your mind...and drink from the bowl. Don't change the way you feel about your friend, and you'll come out on the right side.

I think the key to Liz's powers lies in the way that Max navigated the Balance. I believe that by healing her, he changed her 'energy' in a way that also enabled her to be able to access those parts of the brains that we don't normally get to use. Kind of like instant evolution. Liz now has access to these parts of her brains, but she has to learn how to access them. The same way that listening to certain music can help us reach a meditative state in a rather quick fashion...Liz can be helped by Isabelle when Isabelle touches her, and lends her energy to Liz. Liz would probably have been able to astral project on her own, but it would've taken her much long to learn how to access this power.

The funny thing is, as humans, we all (supposedly) have access to all of these kinds of psychic powers. We haven't learned yet how to access them without the help of drugs or intense practice...but it's definitely something that human's are evolving to. I perceive the podsters as having a higher state of consciousness then regular humans. I believe that is where their powers lie.

In any case, sorry this post was so long. Somewhere along the way I lost my train of thought and what I was trying to say...but decided to leave it intact because it's interesting stuff.

So, in an effort to tie all of this stuff together ....Is it a coincidence that the thing that disrupted Michael's Balance...was a ritual that included intense heat, chanting and drumming?

Hmmmmmmm.........

{~}:}

p.s. edited because I just re-read my post and have no idea what point I was trying to make. I will say that I don't think music is a 'power' that humans have, it's a GIFT.

Yes, it would effect them, but they were engineered here, and are not the same as they were on Antar. They were engineered in this form to be able to survive and adapt on Earth. That is why they were 'given' powers that were human in nature, and why so much of their physiological make-up and biology is human.

{~}:}

Yes, there was a Variety ad the Applesaucers (fan's of Shiri's) bought her.

Shiri doesn't post a lot but occasionally. I wouldn't know if she's posted on this thread. As far as I know, no.

I didn't see anyone else post this, so I'm going to mention that the order of the eps has changed. They will now air as follows (it was announced on the WB website, so it's genuine):
Heart of Mine (4/16)
Cry Your Name (4/23)
It's Too Late and It's Too Bad (4/30)
Baby It's You (5/7)
Off the Menu (5/14; orig. sched. 4/16)
Departure (5/21; finale)

I just thought you all might like to know
~Tas

Just wanted to drop by with some food for thought from the latest promo. I'm not sure which episode this is from, it may or may not be from Heart of Mine. But it's LIZ and she's wearing another big bulky necklace.

It doesn't look like the stagecoach at all to me. Looks more like a wolf, or , but I doubt that. Anyone have any ideas???

perhaps Liz is wearing all this bulky jewelry that we're not used to seeing her wear, because she's carrying a burden! The burden of the granolith, the burden of the truth about Future Max... As though each of those lockers behind her hold secrets she must keep behind lock and key!!!!... hmmmm

Doesn't the four white squares look like the sugar cubes in Four Square? Only a little bit closer together!

The four white squares also remind me of a window. And the two slits beneath them look like eyes to me. Putting the four white squares in the third eye postion.

Does it look like it could be a hot air balloon to anyone?

Crazy I don't know what I mean exactly!

Just that it reminded me of the sugar cubes that's all. And I remember someone mentioning the third eye position on the forehead. I'm just thinking out loud.

They could also represent that Liz is burdened by the Royal 4!!!...specifically the Max and Tess Destiny stuff. Sort of like it's the albatross around her neck! (I'll have to go dig up some stuff about that albatross {a sea bird} story.)

I think I'll have to just wait and see the episode to really figure it out!

I think I'll have to just wait and see the episode to really figure it out!

Yes, this reminded me too this r4 sign.
I like it!

I am really confused that they are changing it around. I wonder how it will affect the line up of episodes. Once this season is over I am curious to watch the last 6 eps to see what would have happened if they had not changed the order. Hmmmm

How about that promo? What is going on with Max and Tess?

perhaps Liz is wearing all this bulky jewelry that we're not used to seeing her wear, because she's carrying a burden!

I'm on cold medicine, but here goes...

Adrian, I love your observation about the heaviness of Liz' jewelry representing a burden in her life. That's good stuff!

Also, I have to say that the necklace definitely looks like the wolf to me; it looks like there's a window into the mind of the wolf.

I know very little about Wolf symbolism but I'm anxious to know more. There's a web site about the spirit of the wolf you may find interesting as a parallel to Liz's heroic journey: http://wolfspirits.wolf.com/id39.htm

Here are some things you'll find there:

In Native American traditions, Wolf is said to be the teacher.

Wolf is allied with Sirus, the Dog Star. Australian Aborigines, the Dogon tribe of Africa and certain Native American tribes believe that our ancestors and teachers came from there.

Wolf is allied to the moon and lunar energies, teaching us to respect our emotions and unconscious urges.

Because the Moon rules psychic perception, Wolf people should work on learning to trust their intuition and psychic urges.

The communal nature of Wolf's culture and hunting helps us to learn to cooperate to achieve a goal. Wolf people make good "team players" and are fiercely loyal to those they consider part of their pack.

As a predator, Wolf culls the sick and weak of the herd. Wolves are often quick to scent when a situation is "sick," and will work to change it.

Ritual is very important to Wolf.

Wolf people will feel more in tune when they honor and re-link (the actual meaning of the word "religion") with the life force.

So many of the Wolf's characteristics fit Liz! Wolves are great teachers, predators, travellers(!) and, oh yeah, they mate for life!

Zara

The most recent Chinese Year of the Dragon started on 5th February 2000(The Convention), the Chinese lunar year 4698.
The Chinese calendar has sixty cycles and this year was the year of the golden dragon. A dragon year can often be a challenging year in which aware and thoughtful people can be very successful

It has long been believed that the dragon has the power to burst the clouds and bring down the rain. As water symbolizes wealth the dragon is understood to attract wealth - but one must be able to turn the challenges that the dragon brings into advantages

In China the dragon is known as the ruler of spring that positively influences natural growth. In the area of wealth the same principle applies and so wealth will not be achieved in a dragon year if one's motivation is greed. A balanced attitude towards life is required The dragon is a yang creature associated with heaven, the emperor and justice, and imbued with the qualities of loyalty, courage and strength

Zara
ah-oooooooooooooo (howling)

Adrian I immediately thought of the sugar cubes too! The face of the creature seems to have lines of colour, like tiger stripes. Could it be a predator cat instead? And I hope that there is some kind of symbolism to Liz suddenly wearing these oversized necklaces(the burden of the R4 works for me), b/c otherwise the costumer needs to be smacked! She's too tiny to wear such huge jewelry
~Tas

Ok this is TOTAL speculation, but Isabel tells Max that she is leaving roswell (in the latest promo). I wonder if this will bring another opportunity (like in MTD with the granolith) where Liz will have to share her knowledge from FM with Max. Like explain that they can't leave one another because they make a complete unit.

Geez I don't know OT....anything to bring out the truth that she is hiding from Max.

[b]Adrian I immediately thought of the sugar cubes too! The face of the creature seems to have lines of colour, like tiger stripes. Could it be a predator cat instead? And I hope that there is some kind of symbolism to Liz suddenly wearing these oversized necklaces(the burden of the R4 works for me), b/c otherwise the costumer needs to be smacked! She's too tiny to wear such huge jewelry
~Tas

[/B]

Try http://www.vidiot.com
(for 15 user in same time)
Tv..-Roswell-promos.

This necklace is very strange...If I look to it...it seems like flower with white bloom...or...?
sry.gram.

Adrian That pic of Liz must be from HOM--she's in the school, and from the video sequencing & the clothes, etc., it looks like she's watching M & T kiss. Ouch! No wonder she's screaming that her life is falling apart. ITA with whomever said that Max needs to know the truth NOW! And he looks like he's about to bawl, in the earlier bit. What is that related to? The reason that he's kissing Tess, or the death of whomever's in the coffin? Or b/c Isabel's leaving? Man, I thought I was confused before!
~Tas

http://members.home.net/unicoh7/S20J416RSW120.mpe

Anyway, to clear things up, I did not give Shiri the Liz Myth thread, although, I would have loved too. I did however put the booklet together and write an acknowledgement in the beginning. In my acknowledgement, I hinted that we would love it if killercat would come and visit sometime. But if she's read the thing - she probably thinks we're nuts and might be afraid to visit.

I lugged that thing around with me for 6 days and finally ended up giving it to CharmedKittn and Behr's Venus. The asked if I minded if they "dressed" up the cover, which they must of done because I hadn't time to put a picture on the front.

Anyway, here's hoping killercat comes and plays. I am so stoked that Shiri got the thing. I hope she see's how much we believe in Liz!

Near the beginning they show Max, Tess, and Brody in the UFO Museum. The alien device goes off and you see a light on the device and a light on Tess's forehead and not Max's, but them they are both thrown back.
HMMMMMM....I have no idea what that could mean if it does mean anything. Does anyone else see this?

Is it just me, or is all this "new" info getting a bit spoilerish?

NetRanger

And Qfanny, here's the pic again, (isn't it a nice one?), and I'll email it to you too in case you aren't able to get over here.

Reggie, I agree about promo discussion being spoilerish, but it's legally spoilerish -- that is, permissible. So folks like us just need to skim through and not read. Reminds me of when I used to hide from Walt Disney's Shaggy Dog promos on TV when I was a kid because the dog changing into a human and vice versa was too disturbing.

Hmmmm....I suppose Liz's Change is a type of Shaggy Dog experience. Where is BehrAll, anyway? That would have been perfect for the Representations thread

BTW, re the order of upcoming ep titles (which faint-of-heart that I am feel spoilerish to me), the original was:
Off The Menu
Heart Of Mine
Cry Your Name
It's Too Late And It's Too Bad
To be announced

and now it's:

Heart Of Mine
Cry Your Name
It's Too Late And It's Too Bad
Baby It's You
Off The Menu
Departure

SO, going on what I read in an interview that the shows are in 4-parters separated by a stand-alone, I take it that Off the Menu is a stand-alone.

I think I'm going to agree with Reggie on this one... It is kind of spoilerish. And yes it's the rules...but we're not used to that on this thread!

Anyhow, just thought I would put my 2 cents into the discussion.

{~}:}

About Astralprojection: http://www.tanega.com/astral/signpost.html
This is interesting site if you remember Liz's experienses(in River Dog and Max in the City) with her power.There is explanation to her fears.
"LIZ: I don't know why, but I'm really scared to do this."

One picture what is surpricing me http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/section5.html

and s just...nice..crazy?

And many UFO links and...
----------------
sry.gram.

Actually no, OTM is not a stand alone. I am spoiled so we have been discussing this switch to death because the way it is in the script it was a lead-in to Heart of Mine and the rest of the remaining eps. So it is not a stand alone. Huh? You may be asking, well we are all asking why on earth they decided to do this. And yeah, you guessed it the Chad people are going to have a field day with this one unless there is some major editing.

Re the switch in program dates: I am not spoiled, but I've done a lot of writing and editing (mostly papers for university work), and it is not unusual to chop out a sequence here and put it there because it fits better. It's so much easier nowadays with word processors than back in the days when a rewrite was a literal rewrite. Simularly, I suspect digital editing of video is not only easier than the ol' cut/splice of tapes, but that it has become an integral part of the art form. Now a lot of folks might roll their eyes at my calling Roswell an art form, but I do think the production folks should be given artistic license to make changes right up to the last minute. Unfortunately the PR folks require advance teasers to bait the milling fan crowd. But I don't think this is a case of "bait 'n' switch," rather an instance of fans getting a peak at the canvas before the painting was finished.

Hence Reggie's admonition about brains on spoilers

As for the "do we or don't we" discuss the promo, I'm on the fence. Yes, anything aired is fair game, but this isn't just a trailer for HOM, it's for all 6 of the next eps, which is a bit much! However, on the other unspoiled threads I visit it's being treated as fair game, so...

I am wondering if Isabel's declaration that she is leaving will force Liz to tell the truth about Future Max Probably wishful thinking, but I am a Dreamer!
~Tas

What are your thoughts?

What are your thoughts?

I don't think that all 6 are represented here. The opening "credits" page or whatever says it's for HOM, so obviously there are scenes from that (the one with Liz with the necklace, & the kiss--they're all dressed up so I assume they're from the prom one), but the other clips seem mostly to go with the coffin clip, everyone's in black. Except the first clip where Max & Tess get hit with an energy pulse (guess that could be from the finale) and where Liz is screaming that her life is falling apart, but that could go anywhere. I'm surprised she hasn't had a major outburst before now, and if it happens after that kiss it could go in any of the eps. I doubt that the energy blast clip is from the finale; we probably won't see anything about the finale until the week before it when they show the trailer after the show. Note: You do realize that I actually watched it again in order to reply to you, don't you? My biggest problem with this promo is that...there's nothing happy! Even the kiss, which is admittedly making the rebels happy, seems kind of sad, IMO. Just food for thought; obviously a death would upset everyone, and the repercussions would filter through however many eps are after that one.
~Tas

Everyone be sure to pop over to my thread at http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/006070.html#5 to see my reviews of "Heatwave" and "Balance." Any feedback is welcomed.

Chad Evans
"Because you can do impossible things." -Dar to Curupira in "The Demon Curupira."

source= http://whiskey1.barksdale.af.mil/generalinfo/8afmuseum/

Then there's Robert Goddard. He is regarded as having launched the space age 75 years ago by flying the first controllable (liquid-fueled) rocket engine. But when the landing of one of his rockets set a fire, he was prohibited from further experiments in Massachusetts, so he moved to Roswell. Now one of the high schools there is named after him, as mentioned on the show. (When Max didn't recognize the picture of the missing girl, the sheriff explained "She goes to Goddard High....")

Ok now to get back on topic:

I think that Max belongs with Liz because with her he is a stronger person. She supports him but not blindly. She is willing the challenge his assumptions and decisions when she thinks he is wrong. After catching up with Michael and Maria in the Motel room in Texas, Max was going turn back and go home. It was Liz who challenged him that if she and Maria were going to be a part of this that they needed to know what was going on. It was at her urging that they continued the trip to Atherton's house(285 South). When Max declared that no one was going to the reservation Liz said that she was going with or without his permission. She was the one who made contact with Riverdog that lead to the discovery of the map Nasedo left.(Riverdog) In Toy House it was Liz who got through to Max that he is controling LIZ: Ok, um...Max, first of all, that couldn't be further from what's happening, and secondly...if it was happening, I wouldn't need your permission, Max. MAX: I'm getting out of here. Now you sound like Isabel. LIZ: Why do I sound like Isabel, Max?
MAX: She's got this thing all of a sudden that I'm controlling. LIZ: Oh, so it's HER thing. MAX: What? LIZ: Max, just take a psych class, because you ARE controlling. MAX: Hey, I am who I am. I've got a lot going on, and I'm trying to make things work. LIZ: Max, you know what your problem is? You put everything on yourself...on your own shoulders. Maybe you should have some faith in the people around you. Even though Liz is feeling hurt by the distance Max has put between them she still gives him the exact advice he needed to handle the situation with his mother. In Tess Lies and Videotape, even though Liz is feeling betrayed she is the one who goes to Tess's and plants the video camera. In Destiny, Liz voluntarily distances herself from Max so as not to impede his destiny. It hurts her but she won't stand in Max's way even if he doesn't see it that way. She will not let him abandon his destiny and resposiblities for her.
The most telling is in End of the World. Liz is willing to sacrifice all future happiness with Max. She does this to keep Tess from leaving for good. So in order to change the future and save 2 worlds Liz helps Tess gets close to Max and then she breaks his heart. Liz is the only one that Future Max trusted with the truth and the need to change the future. He didn't go to Tess to convince her not to leave. He didn't go to his sister or the Michael. He sought help from Liz. When Max faced a moral dilemma, in Roswell, A Christmas Carol, it was to Liz that he sought advice. It was with her aid that he was able to put to rest the ghost that was haunting him. When thought he should do more. LIZ: Healing all of those kids...why did you do it? MAX: After I healed Sydney, I...I looked at the face of the boy lying next to her, and I just thought...how can I not...how can I not use my gift? LIZ: As beautiful as that is, Max...you can't keep doing it. I know it seems like there's no reason for those kids to have cancer or for a father to get killed saving his child or for any of it...but maybe there is. Maybe there is someone or something out there that's planning all of this, and maybe you have to respect it. You're not God, Max. You're the one that told me that. In many ways Liz is Max's moral compass. In the Hybrid Chronicles when Max needed technical help it was to Liz that he looked. Trying to decipher what the blue crystals were and later how to kill them.

Now lets look at Max's relationship with Tess. When Tess came to town, she did not tell MMI about herself even though she knew who they were. She used her powers, mind warp, to influence their feelings about her. She played mind games on Isabel that visable distressed her. She must have also used her powers to get Mrs Evans to open up and tell Tess all about her children, photo album included. But her actions towards Max are most damning. She Mind Warped him several times in Tess Lies And Videotape, into fantasizing about her. He found this quite distressing especially without knowing the cause. Courtney, in Wipeout, said that Nicholas mind rapes. What Tess does with her Mind Warp is very close to this. I cannot think of a more personal violation than to have another intrude into your mind. Isabel does this to extent when she dream walks but she can only observe not change. Tess's power changes what a person thinks. Tess is always going on that Max and she have a destiny. She seems more focused on their personal relationship as their destiny and not the liberation of their home planet. If that was her main goal then Future Max would not have had to return to change the future to keep her from leaving. She would stay even if that meant a broken heart. In many ways Tess is a tragic character. She was raised to a destiny but when confronted found reality different. Upon meeting her Max did not immediately fall for her. For Tess there was no happy ending. When Max thinks of Tess it is often as an afterthought. At the end of Viva Las Vegas, Max tells Michael that he feels responsible for Michael and Isabel...and even Tess. What a wonderful way for the man you are suppose to be to think of you!
Tess always supports Max which is good thing to a point. In many ways her attitude is whatever Max does is right whether it is or not. If Max is ever going to be king he going to need someone who not only supports him but is willing to tell him that he is wrong. Liz has proven to be such a person. For a king, Liz makes a much better consort than Tess does for the reasons I listed above.

I saw this on the WB board and i thought it was too beautiful not to share it with you. Alistriona wrote it. just FYI.

Thank you! I appreciate you responding.

Ok I going to try to break down the promo into episodes.

Max and Tess in the Alien Museum is OTM.

Liz saying her life is falling apart is ????

Max and Tess crying is ???

Iz says she is leaving Roswell is ??? (I would guess it is after the funeral ep because she looks very distraught???)

Max and Tess kissing and Liz with the big necklace is HOM.(They are in formal wear)

The Funeral Scene is (I am guessing) Cry Your Name?

These are guesses, what do you think. I don't think we are seeing any of the finale yet.

FIRST SYMBOL!! http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1515561&a=11452392&p=46007797

SECOND SYMBOL!! http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1515561&a=11452392&p=46007792

I'll get the others up soon!!!

Schurry made this fan art and posted it over on the Cherishing thread. I thought we could all use a good laugh after that promo. How much more depressing can you get TPTB?

Evid

Which actually supports the (Tess as Bride) theory. Remember that that little rat Nikolas commented that Max had been listening to bad advice, and looked at Tess; but otherwise ignored her. Maybe Max wasn't always right, and someone should have told him so. But the poor little mouse didn't...

RW

RW

TPTB have changed the airing order for upcoming eps. OTM will now air just before the finale. HOM has been moved to April 16.

Laura

Ok I going to try to break down the promo into episodes.

Max and Tess in the Alien Museum is OTM.

Liz saying her life is falling apart is ????

Max and Tess crying is ???

Iz says she is leaving Roswell is ??? (I would guess it is after the funeral ep because she looks very distraught???)

Max and Tess kissing and Liz with the big necklace is HOM.(They are in formal wear)

The Funeral Scene is (I am guessing) Cry Your Name?

These are guesses, what do you think. I don't think we are seeing any of the finale yet.

You're welcome, and I agree with your guesses. Max and Tess crying I think may be related to the funeral--perhaps they find the dead person? Liz's declaration could be after seeing M & T kiss, or it could be after the person's death; fluid there. Since OTM was supposed to be next, I'd guess that the promo shows clips only from the 1st 3 eps--OTM (though it's now moved), HOM & CYN. I don't think that ITLITB, BIY or Departure are included.
~Tas

To celebrate Liz's worthiness as Queen
~Tas

Chad Evans
"Because you can do impossible things." -Dar to Curupira in "The Demon Curupira."

source= http://whiskey1.barksdale.af.mil/generalinfo/8afmuseum/

The site with that image is down right now, but here's another: from http://www.sightings.com/general/509th.htm
which reads a lot like the script for So47: quote: Jesse Marcel with the weather balloon. (Photo courtesy of
Fort Worth Star - Telegram Photographic Collection, Special Collections
division, University of Texas at Arlington Libraries)


Gen. Ramey Empties Roswell Saucer Ramey Says Excitement is Not Justified General Ramey Says Disk is Weather Balloon

"Fort Worth, Texas, July 9 (AP) An examination by the army revealed last night that mysterious objects found on a lonely New Mexico ranch was a harmless high-altitude weather balloon - not a grounded flying disk. Excitement was high until Brig. Gen. Roger M. Ramey, commander of the Eighth air forces with headquarters here cleared up the mystery. Anyway, the symbol reminds me of the one on the bus on which the camera kept focusing in Wipe Out:

Sorry guys, I'm not mentally/emotionally ready to read/post on the trailers, but Zero has entrusted me with the ***ALL NEW*** Intro while she's away, so post your hearts out so I can upload it before I leave town myself on Wednesday. She and I will both return around the 15th.

RW

My computer has crashed and I am typing from my mother's MSN account.

Anyway, thanks for the picture of Shiri with the notebook. shapeshifter, I can't wait to read Zero's new introduction.

I haven't seen the promo. Frankly, I don't know if I want to at this point. Not like I could anyway, but I'll watch GG tomorrow in hopes that they run it...

In the meantime, my computer harddrive will have to be taken care of. And what that means I have no idea.

This just sucks - sorry, for the bit of midwestern slang.

quote:Originally posted by Qfanny:
...This just sucks - sorry, for the bit of midwestern slang... they say it in Sacramento too!

HAHA!! little mouse...ok controlling myself. That's a pretty good conclusion i guess. I always want to think that liz is the real bride because i'm just a dreamer like that, but i guess there's a SMALL ( and i mean small....like...SMALL!!!) percentage that tess aka. mouse!! is possibly telling the truth. I don't trust her though, never have and i never really will. And also, the whole point of this thread is to prove that Liz is really important ( which she is) so let's stick with the Liz= BRIDE OF MAX!! theory, to make Meaghan happy!!
+ =

BTW, I watched MITC last night, which happens to be this week's featured video-watch, and in which we see that Nickolas definitely didn't get permanently torched, and he makes his "genocidal girlfriend" comment. The ep also has a 'previously on Roswell' clip of Nicko telling Max he trusted the wrong people, but in the clip Nicko doesn't look at Tess the way he did in Wipe Out, so I guess we can't link Tess to the original 'genocide' of the Royalty. But we can surmise from his comment to her in MITC that the other Skins did not have Phoenix attributes.

Each time the idea comes up that Liz looks queenly, I get reminded of a scene for which I really wish we had a screencap. It was part of the "previously on Roswell" opener of Blind Date. It showed Liz on her balcony, and some cloth item in the background behind her head was draped in a way reminiscent of an ancient Egyptian headdress as seen in movies about Cleopatra.

Each time the idea comes up that Liz looks queenly, I get reminded of a scene for which I really wish we had a screencap. It was part of the "previously on Roswell" opener of Blind Date. It showed Liz on her balcony, and some cloth item in the background behind her head was draped in a way reminiscent of an ancient Egyptian headdress as seen in movies about Cleopatra.Earth shapeshifter to Spaceship Reggie: Do you read us?
Please send shapeshifter one (only!) requested screen cap (if you have that part of that ep on tape) and she will post it for the RBIers to inspect for possible further evidence to the Importance Of Liz to the Alien Mythology.

No, that's not what I mean. Ava! is the "mouse", proto-Ava is the one that didn't tell proto-Max he was wrong, and Ava is the one that gets no respect. Note how when Tess is around, the aliens (who knew Ava from Before) treat her as insignificant. They think Tess is just a mouse, too. (No gerbil cracks, please!) But Tess, re-raised by "Harding" to be more assertive, is different. Tess is no more like Ava, than Isabel is like Lonnie. See?

All this talk about Liz as the Queen and the pic that Tas posted made me think of when Liz had a crown placed on her head. This part of Blind date reminded me of Cinderella. Remember Liz was mopping and waring rubber gloves at the time.

Evid

Villandra was (probably) a nasty piece of work, Lonnie surely is, and Isabel is a nice girl. (Mostly. )

When Max tells Tess in MITC that all she has done is support him I could have just knocked him over with something, what a short memory he has. It strikes me that giving support to someone doesn't mean agreeing with everything they say, it's agreeing when they are right and saying something when they aren't, which is what Liz does. I definite wouldn't call that what Tess is doing, I think she has a personal agenda. I really wish Max would think about that, his most positive feedback always comes from Liz, she's the one who helps him work things out and work towards a solution.

Max is constantly being told that he made bad choices, I'd say that that had to do with Tess but if that was the case wouldn't she be helpful to Kivar and if so why wasn't Whittaker interested in her. I have to wonder about her purpose for being sent with the other podsters but I maintain that she is not the true bride. Obviously close feelings from their planet did not follow either Michael or Isabel but they aren't bothered by it, but Tess concentrates on Max with an intensity is just plain obsessive. For the life of me I don't know what she could possibly gain from it.

Okay I'm finished on my Tess theory, it's just frustrating. Max feelings for Liz that are unquestionable, nobody else has this sort of connection, it has to mean something and if it does mean that she is the true bride what is Tess?

You know I really don't think that people should be upset when other people discuss promos that have been aired. It is not spoilerish because it is within the rules.

I have recently witnessed a lot two sided people when it comes to spoilers. When it is information that they want to hear (and it contradicts something they've seen and didn't like) they are glad that spoiled people have dropped some hints to relieves their concerns. Now not everyone is like that but I have seen many over the last week. I have to say that I have found this amusing.

Totally OT but I am curious for your opinion.
Do you think that the home planet knows about the dupes? I found it interesting when Lonnie said they were the only ones who knew about them. The shapeshifters must have known too.???

Wouldn't it be cool if Liz's big necklace was from Grandma Claudia?

Sorry for the rambling.

I can't wait for them to reveal who proto-Ava was. We really don't have any info on her. Even though I don't like the whole Tess/Destiny thing, I think that she is the key to understanding who Liz is and her importance to the Alien mythology.

I think it was a cut scene, so maybe I shouldn't speculate off it, but Ava'a reaction alone was enough to suggest that there was more to Liz's story than met the eye.

Well, I saw the promo last night. Yikes! After the shock wore off I took a detailed look. And I noticed a few things.

I scanned the thread and looks like Adrian beat me to it. I noticed the necklace on Liz right away.

What is it shapeshifter always says? The more people notice things independently, the more important or true they may be.
Doesn't it look like a coyote head? I really need to read the rest of the thread. Just thought I'd drop that by.

And, it looks like you've been discussing my fave subject... those questionable symbols. There is the beginnings of a diary/dictionary for the symbols on my site. It is rather interesting which ones appear again and again. I'll have to back track and read what everyone thought. http://www.geocities.com/redhawksroswell/etc/index.html

Sorry this post is so disjointed. I hope to catch up with the thread soon.

You know I really don't think that people should be upset when other people discuss promos that have been aired. It is not spoilerish because it is within the rules.

I have recently witnessed a lot two sided people when it comes to spoilers. When it is information that they want to hear (and it contradicts something they've seen and didn't like) they are glad that spoiled people have dropped some hints to relieves their concerns. Now not everyone is like that but I have seen many over the last week. I have to say that I have found this amusing.

Well, the issue at hand here really is that on this thread we are VERY CAREFUL about NOT discussing spoilers. This is how it has been in the past and I'm sure most of us would agree that this is how it should continue to be.

I was under the impression that the promo had not actually aired yet, but you all got it from vidiot's site....which, would, in fact, make it spoilerish.

I think that the thread should be respected and new posters should respect that this is a spoiler free thred. New posters are always welcome, however there are plenty of places to discuss spoilers so it doesn't have to be done here.

That's just my opinion and I for one would like to see this thread continue much in the way it has always been - minus the spoiler speculation!!!

And just for the record, I happen to be spoiled but am always beyond careful to keep it off this thread.

{~}:}

Qfanny We say "It sucks" in Toronto, too

Glad you all liked Narnia's Queen Liz collage!
~Tas

It just really "sucks!"

Promise me once we get going on episodes again we can talk a little about wolves, PLEASE?!!!!

Zara
ah-rOOOOoooo

quote:Originally posted by Zara:
Promise me once we get going on episodes again we can talk a little about wolves, PLEASE?!!!!
ah-rOOOOoooo "Sounds" good!

And now, (fanfare please) here is a gorgeous image that Reggie has screen capped in response to Nemo's request. Ta da<<<<<<

shapeshifter - the cap Reggie made looks like a Virgin Mary pic. Where's Evid when we need her?

Totally OT but I am curious for your opinion.
Do you think that the home planet knows about the dupes? I found it interesting when Lonnie said they were the only ones who knew about them. The shapeshifters must have known too.???
[/B]

Hey Miss L, interesting question. I would think besides the scientists who actually did the cloning, the people in charge who decided to send the Royal 4 to earth (including Maz and Isabel's mother, and whoever else decided) might know about the double sets.
Anyway, when Lonnie said they were the only ones who knew about there being 2 sets of the Royal 4, I would guess she meant none of the leaders of the other planets (everyone at the summit) knew about the doubles.

All this talk about Liz as the Queen and the pic that Tas posted made me think of when Liz had a crown placed on her head. This part of Blind date reminded me of Cinderella. Remember Liz was mopping and wearing rubber gloves at the time.

Evid

So, maybe back on Antar, Ava & Vilondra were kind of like the wicked step-sisters?
And since Dupe Ava didn't stop Dupe Zan from being killed, maybe that's how it went on Antar the first time around. So maybe Nasedo coached Tess to do things differently this time around, not knowing that Max would always be "waitin' for someone else."

There are rules about spoilers. Spoiled people need to respect the right of the unspoiled to remain so (ITA), but the people who have higher standards to the definition of spoilers (than that of FF) need to respect what the rules are and the freedom that it might allow others to post.

I am not intending this with any disrespect. This is my favorite thread on the board so I wouldn't want to offend anyone here.

I look at the promo (if being aired and legal) as (pardon my analogy) a big meaty bone finally being thrown to us by TPTB after a five week deprevation of no Roswell and I want to gnaw at it!

I hope that this is taken the right way. I just feel that we all need to respect the rules even if we don't agree with them. It goes both ways.

:: thank you I will get off my soap box now ::

Now let's get back to talking about how important Liz is.......

RE: Spoilers.
If it "the SHOW" has not been aired yet, I consider it spoilerish. I also consider talk about it spoilerish even though I have to say I'm ding to bite the wolf thing as well ...

quote:Originally posted by shapeshifter:
So, maybe back on Antar, Ava & Vilondra were kind of like the wicked step-sisters?
And since Dupe Ava didn't stop Dupe Zan from being killed, maybe that's how it went on Antar the first time around. So maybe Nasedo coached Tess to do things differently this time around, not knowing that Max would always be "waitin' for someone else."

Ohhh Shapeshifter that may look funny but it does open up a nice boxfull of possibilities . I like! I like!...

Vih : was checking out that astrotravel site (LOL sounds like a travel agency for spiritual voyages). Very interesting. I noticed the fact they were arguing about how much easier it is for the body to perform astro travel if its weak or in a weak state. Well then Liz should be able to complete a full NASA report of the nearest constellation these days . *RD shakes her head*. Kinda crazy all this possibility talk huh? its nonetheless. Thanks for giving us that link!

:: thank you I will get off my soap box now ::

Now let's get back to talking about how important Liz is.......

I think more important than just respecting the 'rules' is respecting the culture of the thread.

This thread is spoiler-free, period. If you are in doubt that something is a spoiler, you shouldn't post it. That said, there are MANY places on FF to discuss the spoilers that it does not need to be done here.

Does anybody agree with me on this statement? The one thing I've always loved about this thread is that there is no negativity and everyone respected each other. The other thing I've really loved about this thread is because it is spoiler free we've been allowed to guess at what might happen in the future....and more often than not we are RIGHT! That is the ultimate satisfaction. Please don't ruin that for us. Keep the Liz Myth Thread a spoiler free zone.

{~}:}

Hi Shapeshifter

I think you can watch it. There are some spoilerish scenes in there, but I don't think you can really get any 'juicy, meaty, bones' out of it, if you know what I mean. You don't really have the larger 'context' of any of the clips.

Since it's starting to air on television I guess that makes it fair game, although it's disheartening that more and more spoilers are finding their way onto the thread.

Go for it...what the hay...soon enough we'll have the actual episodes to enjoy!

{~}:}

Well I was sifting through the pages on the thread, but I couldn't find a pic which roswelldiva was referring to as "pharoahlike"... but it brought me to mind. I made this pic awhile back and thought I'd share it with the Liz Mythers. For fun, Liz as Cleopatra.

Our one and only Queen

Melodious

Yes! I agree. When I first saw it I thought of the Virgin Mary theories. And since Easter is coming up on Sunday let's all take a field trip and revisit the Liz as Virgin Mary theory.

There's that one:
http://www.silverhandprint.com/images/circlesliced_25.gif

And that one.
THey both are the four square symbol but on silverhandprint one represents the dupes and the other is not representing anything. Why would only the squares that have taht little swirly thingymabob in them represent the dupes? Do the four solid squares represent the REAL r4 and the other squares, which are different, represent the NY r4? I know it's OT but i was looking and i can't figure it out!

On the Liz as the true bride: I think that perhaps Zan married Ava but that does not mean that Liz was not the true bride, meaning they were supposed to get married. Because from what it seems, there is evidence to support that possibly Zan did marry Ava.

shapeshifter—I am sorry about you getting “canned.” 

I agree with redhawk—that pic looks more like a Virgin Mary pic to me.

Shiri is absolutely beautiful If anyone has the Virgin Mary "look" at least, it's Shiri... although, of course, this isn't a thread for the actress, it's a Liz thread. I just have to post *one more* pic... I hope y'all will forgive me (it doesn't have a lot to do with Ros either, but still a little Liz Mythy hopefully)....

quote:It has a Madonna-at-the-foot-of-the-cross quality.

Speaking of "Madonna-at-the-foot-of-the-cross" quality... look at this pic of Shiri and tell me it doesn't *scream* religious symbolism....

Image borrowed from Leaving Normal

I'm not sure how many of you have seen this (probably several of you since we're all presumedly Liz/Shiri fans). The screencap is actually from Xena I believe... in the *appearance* department at least, Shiri just oozes with "religious icon" in this particular cap imo. I almost want to manip the pic and put sunlight beaming on her face or have a glowing halo of light behind her head.

Melodious

RE: Screencaps. I think that the lace over Liz's head one looks like the Virgin Mary and this one looks like a Pharoah. I have no idea why but that cap just gives me the willies . It was the Egyptian men that wore those headresses though? No?...

Would be lovely to talk about the Virgin Mary this being Holy Week . And ITA about Shiri having that angelic relgious halo about her. She really is marvelous.
Trying to tie thi all back into Liz Myth, so perhaps Liz was the queen of another race ....I keep thinking abotu what Barbara had said abotu the "V" constelation and the "A" from the past civilizations...if you flip the "V" constelation upside down

..................*....................
.........................................................
.............*.......*.............
..........................................................
..........*...............*.............

All you need is one point to make it into an "A" constelation. Maybe there is a loophole (blackhole) in the center of their constalation that connects them back and forth to the milkyway (?). Ok but I've never heard of a blackhole having a queen . Somehow I just keep thinking about the other constelation. Anyhow the Liz pictures!!!

Redhawk: It's so nice that you think of me when the Virgin Mary clues pop up, if you only new me she would be furthest from your mind.

shapeshifter: I agree with you that pic does give off the Madonna-at-the-foot-of-the-cross feeling. Good catch Nemo. As for your question about staying away from the promo. I'm spoiler free, some what, I read Fan Fic and I tend to trip upon a few spoilers there. I think that you should stay away from it, I really don't think it gives much info and will only confuse you and hurt your Dreamer heart. I viewed it thinking that it was already aired and I felt like showering after I did, stay clean shapeshifter the dirt will only weight you down.

Guess what RBI's I found a Roswell connection on a cooking show.
The cook was preparing a dish with RED and GREEN peppers and she said you need the YIN and YANG colors to bring eye appeal to your dish. She compared RED and GREEN with YIN and YANG. These two colors have showed up between Max and Liz.

Starbox: I thought you would like this one.

Here is Max and Liz on Blind Date with red and green separating them on the curb. I think it was Gracekel who caught this one but had yet to figure out the why.

Here is Max and Liz on 4sq. You can see that Liz's drink is green and Max is holding the red tabasco sauce.

I know it's a stretch but what isn't on Roswell these days.

By the way I found this sight and I thought it was interesting and insightful. It's a little confusing but I think it has many connections to Roswell. http://www.chanceandchoice.com/ChanceandChoice/chapter5.html

Evid

And for the Liz-as-a-type-of-Virgin-Mary background, check out: http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/archetypes.htm#bible

Agreed?

Happy Monday Mythers!

Meta, I sent you a PM.

Melodious I love the cleopatra pic!!

So what's on the menu for discussion today? ( hee hee little pun intended )

THey both are the four square symbol but on silverhandprint one represents the dupes and the other is not representing anything. Why would only the squares that have taht little swirly thingymabob in them represent the dupes? Do the four solid squares represent the REAL r4 and the other squares, which are different, represent the NY r4? I know it's OT but i was looking and i can't figure it out!

No, it's on-topic. It's been hashed out here, but a long time ago. This is the dupes' symbol, there on their arms:

And this is our podsters' logo, below Isabel:

Notice that the NY4's logo has dots in the pods, while the NM4 have commas. We don't know why. But these are the official symbols, as far as we can tell from the shows.

A guess: the commas represent a human-type fetus, in a pod. The dots? Eggs, maybe. If the original Twilonians lay eggs, then showing eggs in the pods would indicate that the occupants are more Twilonese... which the Dupes are!

Nemo- a suggestion?
Perhaps it would be a good idea to start the next thread now, rather than waiting to hit 250? We just had a big problem on the CHADs thread- went a couple of days with no thread, cause the old one filled, and our host couldn't get on to start the next one...

They are very different there. One is 4 squares (and is not labeled) and the other (dupes) is 4circles with little "pac men" inside and are connected together with an X in the middle.

"Dupes" I know that it is short for duplicate but the word "dupe" has three meanings.
1.noun : one that is easily deceived or cheated : FOOL
2. transitive verb: synonyms DUPE, GULL, TRICK, HOAX mean to deceive by underhanded means. DUPE suggests unwariness in the person deluded. GULL stresses credulousness or readiness to be imposed on (as through greed) on the part of the victim. TRICK implies an intent to delude by means of a ruse or fraud but does not always imply a vicious intent. HOAX implies the contriving of an elaborate or adroit imposture in order to deceive. (sorry that was long but I thought it was cool)
3. noun or verb: DUPLICATE (obviously)

I apologize if this has been hashed before but I thought it was interesting that the word dupes was chosen and it's other possible meanings that could be implied.
These are synonyms that TPTB could have used for the dupes. The epi could have been called...Meet The Facs (facsimiles) or Meet The Reps (replicas), or Meet The CarbCops (carbon copies) or Meet the Dittos (ditto) Sorry just being silly.

Not silly at all, MissL! I've always thought the double entendre of "dupe" was deliberate. They're a bunch of tricksters, imo.

Zara

About dots vs. commas: I agree that the commas/pacmen are embryonic symbols. My thoughts on the dots lean towards unfertilized--like Dolly the Llama. So maybe our podsters' embryos were created in more of the 'usual way'? Just speculating.

Oh, and I love the idea of us all posting on the promo after GG, but do you think they will air it given the audience of GG? Oh well, I'll be watching it with my 12-year-old anyway.

Well one more post and then on to Thread 36!

MissLParker Getting a little more colloquial, "dupe" also can mean "decoy," as in an object meant to deceive. It reminds me of the theory of Tess/Ava being a decoy for the true bride, Liz. Perhaps not only Tess/Ava were decoys, but the entire set of dupes. They were sent not as a backup, as Lonnie said, but to play "bait" much like Maxedo did, and draw any fire away from the real R4.
~Tas