Topic: Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology - Thread #40
Copyright © Fan Forum 2001. All Rights Reserved.

By maxcedo
05-02-2001, 07:47 PM
maxcedo here starting thread #40 with Zero's introduction:

Hi all ! Finally got here - don't ask me about my crazy day - but here is the Table of Contents that I had prepared for this thread, which Maxcedo is now pasting into this post. THANK YOU for starting the new thread while I was out and about!!

Welcome to the Table of Contents to the Introduction to the 40th thread of the continuing discussion of "Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology." The Introduction became so long, Shapeshifter graciously agreed to host it on a website. Below is the Table of Contents to the Intro with links! Hopefully, this will continue to make this Thread accessible to everyone interested in Liz's importance to the Alien Mythology. The Intro includes summaries of all our past discussions, so is well worth reading if you are NEW to our thread! The Intro is in the process of being up-dated as you read this, and currently only reflects up-dates to the Dates – through Cry Your Name. I am currently trying to include the observations, clues and theories that have arisen from Heart of Mine, Cry Your Name and It’s Too Late, It’s Too Bad (all of which have added to our belief in Liz’s strength, the Hero’s Journey she is on and importance of Liz to the aliens –whether they know and appreciate it or not! So, if you have read the Intro recently (since Thread #35), you don’t need to re-read it unless you want to be refreshed about a specific topic or check out the dates. The links make that much easier! (Thank you Shapeshifter!) I will post as soon as the revised Intro is posted! I’m trying something new this time – starring changes – so it is taking a bit more time, and if you know the length of the Intro – you can appreciate that up-dating it is a major undertaking!

There is never a dull moment on this thread – especially recently! We appreciate the new episodes to digest – especially with the refocus on Liz’s importance to the storyline! (Thank you JK and RM! ) Even though Heart of Mine, Cry Your Name and It’s Too Bad, It’s Too Late have many inducing scenes, and future episodes look to provide even more conflict in the Max and Liz relationship, we have been provided tons of stuff to chat about and dissect! SO, JK and RM – keep it coming PLEASE!! !! Plus – we have seen so many newbies joining into the discussion - which is wonderful!!

Feedback is always welcome! Just PM me. I will continue to let you know when I up-date the Introduction so you can head over there to read the new information when I add it in.

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Background

Basic Thesis

Just a reminder - Our basic thesis is that LIZ IS AN IMPORTANT AND ESSENTIAL ELEMENT TO THE ALIEN MYTHOLOGY!

What is Subject for Discussion?

Liz's importance to the pod squad - and the survival of the human race for that matter - and theories concerning the beings - especially Max - and mysteries swirling around Liz - are what we discuss. So - feel free to join on in, or just lurk! And don't worry about going off on a tangent - they ALL tend to lead back to Liz's importance! (Especially lately!) We are an optimistic and friendly - though seriously anal retentive - group! So - dive in, and join the fun!! But remember – NO SPOILERS! We want everyone to feel welcome!

Liz is Important - The Liz/Max Connection

Consequence of the Connection - the Change?

Origin of the Connection - Where is Liz from, really?

Granolith - How does it fit in?

Destiny - Liz and Max!

Follow Your Heart

Symbolism - WE Do Not Ignore Anything!

Chakras

Einstein's Light Cone

Chariots of Fire - Liz's Necklace in VLV

The "Bride" - will the real one please stand up!

The Books - WHY Doesn't anyone read these things?

The Catalyst - Liz!

Vision Quest - How does Liz fit in?

Time Travel - "Run, Lola, Run"

Hero Journey - Liz's Path

I wanted to add that I believe the events of the last few episodes (HOM, CYN and ITB,ITL) play right into Liz’s Hero Journey!

Grandma Claudia - the first connection?

I just wanted to add here that many of us believe that that fact that the necklace Liz wore to the Prom had been Grandma Claudia’s is VERY SIGNIFICANT! Finally, a tie into GC, her Native American connection and Season 1! Now – if we could only figure out “what” the necklace was! Maybe this was a foreshadowing that GC will be the connection to the aliens that we always thought she was/is!

Lifebonds vs. Soulmates

Don’t let the current state of affairs (pun intended!) concern you – Liz and Max are soulmates and lifebond! The Truth Is Out There! And Liz will find it! (Even Maria agrees with that!)

Sheila Hubble - Eerie resemblance to Liz! - What's the connection?

Venus - Liz's mythical connection to the stars!

Numbers - It all adds up to Liz and Max!

Numbers keep cropping up that seem to fall into our 2, 3, 5 groupings. Like the bus that Liz misses is 33_5, the bowling alley lane is 32, Max remembers 3 moons, Alex’s funeral and the concert is on 5/5 and the song at the end of Cry Your Name mentions the number 3! Also, the truck driver had 1 drink, 3 hours before! There is no way that this is just a coincidence! I will try to add as many of the numbers caught to the Intro that I can – but let’s just say that there has to be a meaning to the reoccurrence of the numbers – especially 5! Liz’s cell number is 505-555-0125! (and as Qfanny so intelligently pointed out .125 =1/8th – Ummm…!

Cave Map Symbols - All signs lead to Liz?

Skins - What lies below the surface?

We keep wondering where Nicko disappeared to – and Lonnie, Rath and Ava for that matter. Is it just a matter of time before Kivar shows up? Maybe – with Alex’s death – he already has?? Ummm….! Many of us think that Tess is up to her “old” tricks of mindwarping – but is she acting alone?? Most of us think not!

Shapeshifters - Are there more than one?

Remember – Harding and Nasedo and Tic Tac are NOT all one and the same shapeshifter! I still believe that Tic Tac is out there watching over Liz!

Handholding - the symbol of the V constellation

Mythology!

Dates

Dates seem to be of extreme interest to those on this thread. So, follow the link to a rundown of dates as I've been able to gather them from episodes, official sites and factual research. If you find a date I’ve missed or see one that is wrong – PM me with the change and where you got your information! I’m always looking for new dates!

New dates added include:

1994 – Date the building in the Leanna and Alex picture was torn down (ITLITB)
12/9/2000 – Alex’s Departure for Sweden (ITLITB)
1/16/2001 – Date Leanna computer file/document created by Alex (ITLITB)
1/18/2001 – Date Alex and Leanna were supposed to be traveling to the Baltic Islands – where the mysterious building supposedly existed (ITLITB)
1/28/2001 – Alex’s Return from Sweden date (ITLITB)
4/27/2001 – Roswell Prom & Date Liz begins to start writing in her Journal again. (Heart of Mine)
5/3/2001 – Alex is killed. (Cry Your Name)
5/4/2001 – Kyle’s Birthday (18th?) (Cry Your Name)
5/5/2001 – Alex Whitman’s funeral (Cry Your Name)

In Summary

Finally, (I always have to add this - if anyone from the production staff, crew, UPN or THE WB reads this or the Intro), WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LIZ/MAX CONNECTION IS CRITICAL TO THE SHOW, AND THAT TOGETHER MAX AND LIZ MAKE AN INCREDIBLE FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!! Even Ron Moore stated in the commentary for Ask Not that the "Max and Liz relationship is so strong and so central to the entire series!"

And as to the Season 3 rumors – this is a WONDERFUL show, with the potential to be another “X-files” with intimate relationships if done right! SO – please don’t let it go!! Not only will you lose an incredible show, but one of the best fan bases around!

A couple of general "rules" - NO SPOILERS (even asides about spoilers are not allowed – I can’t emphasize this enough as we move towards the season finale), but anything "aired" is subject to discussion, including coming attractions/preview and things on the Silverhandprint site. Pictures are welcome, as is deleted dialog from posted scripts of shows that have been aired and commentary by writers/producers. If you know what a preview “really means” due to spoilers, please DON’T tell us – let us speculate – we will find out soon enough! Also, no discussion of the new book “Loose Ends” until AFTER the season is over – it is spoilerish! Thanks!

As Alex - true and loyal friend to Liz - said - "Gripa det dagen" (seize the day)! Liz will find the TRUTH and avenge his death!

Zero
I Shall Believe!!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz can find it, and save the Pod Squad!)

By Wishful Thinking
05-02-2001, 08:34 PM
I'm sure everyone has already noticed the following clues, since they were quite noticable in this weeks ep-- probably why I picked up on the right away

anyway...

when Liz & Max are fighting in the hallway, Max grabs Liz's arm, etc. In the background there was a sign saying Junior Class, but someone was standing infront & blocking some of the letters. So... there was a shot with Max on the left, Liz on the right & in between a sign that read Junior Ass-- which I felt quite appropriate given Max's 'tude

the other was the V formation that appeared when Liz was running to the plane. The point almost touching the nose of the plane.

Okay, that's all I noticed I'm afraid-- nothing Earth shattering I know

ps. Starbox could you PM w/the info about Tess & Alex that you got from the book? Pretty please?

By MissLParker
05-02-2001, 08:41 PM
Yeah new thread!

Has anyone caught any symbolism in the music of ITLITB?

One of things that I noticed in this last episode is that the descriptions of Zan the leader now seem to be making sense.
the way he interacted with Isabel, I could see why she would want to run off into the hands of Khivar to escape her tyranical brother.
Courtney's opinion of Michael seemed believable in this episode. We see Michael having wisdom when he tells Max that he souldn't confuse what is true with what he wants to be true. But then he loyalty to Max furthers the division between max and Isabel. I could see the "great leader who's loyalty cost him everything" there.

Why is all of this happening? Because he is putting his trust in the wrong people (Tess) as said by Nicholas who immediately looked at her. Max seems to have really changed since he started retrieving memories with Tess.

How can the cycle not repeat itself? The number five, so prominant throughout this episode, is symbolic of our Liz Parker who (I think) through her investigation of Alex's murder will draw out the real enemy and expose them.
P.S. Will the real Max Evans please stand up.(as well as the real bride )

By Reggie
05-02-2001, 08:42 PM
quote:Originally posted by Tasyfa:
Additionally, this was supposedly the first time for both Max and Tess (I agree with Reggie that she would have waited for Max), but it was totally rushed and hurried and there was no tenderness at all. Max does actually care about Tess as a person, and he may currently be deluded into thinking that he feels more for her. If that's the case, then he would have been slow and gentle with her, and it would NOT have occurred in a public place!!!! It's another pointer to the presence of Stepford Max, IMO.

I don't think anyone here has brought it up, but essentially, regardless of whether the Tex was a complete mindwarp or if Tess was just controlling Max's actions, she raped him. She may as well have given him Rohypnol or something like that. Harsh words, I know, but that's what I believe happened. Either she physically raped him, or she mindraped him. Either way, her actions are unforgivable.

First off, Max did give his explicit consent. "I want to wake up now." This "wake up" theme has been going on long enough, that I don't think it's totally a Tess projection.

As for Max being "slow and gentle" with her, ROTFLMAO! In the end, TESS was on top. She may or may not have been tender with him, but it's entirely in her control. (Hmmm.)

And BTW, she still had her bra on. The black stripe on her light back is clearly visible. It could have been a make-out session, and the BEM-let produced in other than (to borrow a phrase) "the usual way". It could be just as much a surprise for her, too!

Finally, the "We can go home now." He might add, "to Roswell." Been done before; creative editing in the promos is the rule, not the exception; and Tess has referred to Roswell as "home", too, in similar circumsances.

By Qfanny
05-02-2001, 08:43 PM
Zero: Want to blow another gasket with me???

Remember back on thread #39 I pointed out how Liz's Cell phone number left a huge clue that Liz is 1/8th of the pod squad. Well, let's get the calculator out and do some more calculater math to prove it for certain.

Liz's Cell # is 505-555-0125.

Her number is littered with 1/8th clues. As I have already pointed out, the suffix of 0125 reads .0125. .0125 is the decimal equivilant of 1/8th. Liz is 1/8th.

Well, I was about to lay down to sleep, when another clue leapt out at me and slapped me in the face.

The prefix of 555 reads 5*5*5 or 5 cubed. 5*5*5 equals 125 or again, 0125 and 0125 sequence is 1/8th.

Now, I was just going to wait to post this when I fell over with another realization. The 505 had to be another clue. It just had to be another clue... 5*5 is 25. Not significant to the 1/8th theory for Liz, until I remembered that someone dialing long distance would first dial a 1. 1-505 reads 1-25 or .0125...

Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology is all in the numbers. Her cell number is not 1-505-555-0125, it is .0125-.0125-.0125 in my book.

How's that?

Reggie
While I am still awake, I need to point out somethings about the Michael leaving and Isabel leaving scenerios. You suggested back on page one that Max was ready to let Michael leave without a forwarding address. You are quite correct: But, we must remember that Max and Isabel are different people (oops, I mean aliens.)

Reasons why Michael wanted to leave:

1) Abusive foster father
2) Desire to find Nasedo and more about his alien past.

And the reason why Isabel wants to leave:

1) Desire to hide from alien past.

Now, Max's reaction was different towards Isabel's wanting to leave than Max's.

Reasons why:

1) Isabel is Max's sister, and it doesn't look good for the leader if his own blood doesn't follow him.

2) Michael's intention was to find out about aliens and where he comes from, this would have led him back to Max and Isabel.

3) Both situations were very difficult for Max. However, Max needs to control Isabel. I don't want to get on a gender role issue here, but Max is a chauvanist. I think because of the fact that they didn't know they were the Royal Four and the particular difficult circumstance around Michael, Max was more willing to let Michael go. Max know understands they all must stay together. And Michael does too at the end of VLV.

Isabel, because of their family ties, must stay with Max (in his eyes). They have always been together. I think that idea of no Isabel scares the crap out of Max. Remember, Max feels that he's responsible for everyone. Everyone expects him to be the leader. Max is not the democratic leader anymore. They do things only when he says it's ok.

Isabel leaving without Max's approval will not sit well with him. She knows that. She knew that he was going to say no.

By zeroAutumn
05-02-2001, 08:43 PM
Man, you guys are contagious. I haven't been able to take my mind off of RBI business since I saw the episode. Here are few more thoughts.

rosfan: good catch on the "another planet" thing. When Liz first said this it seemed very farfetched, but then I remembered something. In the Roswell High books, Alex did go to another planet. (I haven't read the books, but I read all the summaries ^_^) In fact, many of the things that he did in the series when he came back from Sweden are what he did in the books after he came back from the pod squad's home planet. (They talk about him being a new man, and stepping away from Isabel etc, etc.) Since they definitely don't follow the books exactly, this could have no significance, but it is interesting.

Since I just recently began thinking of Tess as maybe being evil, I've had a whole lot of thoughts on her.

If Tess is manipulating Max, I think that she might be being manipulated herself. This is not because I find so many merits in her character, only that I don't think she's strong enough to do it herself. And I don't mean power-wise. As I think Zero pointed out, if she's not evil she's just pathetic. I feel sorry for her. She'd never shown evidence of being emotionally strong like Liz. She's never done something on her own. Her whole life she was clining to Nasedo, and then Max. She is not independent.

I am also thinking about Zero's theory that Tess might have not only left the pod squad, but turned against them in the future. By putting off Max and Liz's cementing, not only does it give Liz (and maybe kyle) time to develop their powers, but because of the events in EOTW, Liz and Ava bonded. Many people have mentioned how Liz and Ava seemed to get along so well.
So, what if Tess is revealed, and she goes over to the other side and fights against the pod squad and pod squad artileries ... Not only does the pod squad have an upper hand in having known about her earlier, they have humans developing powers, and they have AVA to complete their 'square'.

Great idea on FMax's precision. There were plenty of better times to get Max out of love with Liz. Okay, well maybe he wouldn't be able to make Max fall out of love with Liz after that day in 3rd grade ... but certainly there were better times to make Max more willing to accept Tess. Yeah, there's definitely something up with that.

I have one more comment on the Max and Izzy thing. While part of me is saying "Go Iz!!" for standing up for herself and trying to open Max's eyes, there's something to what Max is saying. Isabel leaving Roswell will endanger them all. The problem is how he's going about trying to convince her. There are far better ways to convince her than saying "you just can't go" and threatening her.
While yes, she is basically going because of Alex, I'm sure if he gave her a bit of time and explained calmly and rationally to her why she needed to stay, she would get it.
I guess it falls on Liz now. That's probably I good thing.

Since this is getting way too long, I'll say good night for now.
Sweet Dreams

z.a.
*Dreamer and part-time Candy Girl*

By Qfanny
05-02-2001, 08:51 PM
Ok - I agree. There's something in Max's arguement that Iz leaving endangers them all. However, Iz is bound to leave somehow. She's so determined she's like Lonnie. And she just doesn't care if they become endangered. Even if Iz stays in Roswell, Iz doesn't necessarly have to help her brother. Perhaps this is all leading up to a Vilondra betrayal.

By Reggie
05-02-2001, 08:56 PM
I didn't want this to get lost on the old thread's tail, so I've held this post a while.

Has anyone else considered Max's "recovered memory" about swimming in Jello? It seems familiar...

In dream analysis, there is a common image of "running in molasses". This is supposed to represent struggling with an insoluable problem or situation. Swimming in Jello seems so much like this. I wonder: perhaps this is a true recovered memory, of the situation Max found himself in on Twilo, expressed metaphoricly? Not so much a dream, as a nightmare...

By zeroAutumn
05-02-2001, 09:00 PM
Qfanny: I agree ... the past is repeating itself. What we're seeing here is that Vilandra probably had a reason to betray Zan. The only way they'll be saved is LIZ.
It's pretty obvious to me that Isabel has no intention of helping her brother right now (the followers line). However, I think if Liz explains why its so important, she'll understand.

Basically, I think Isabel and Michael trust Liz more than they trust Max right now.

In the little blurb for next week's episode on the crashdown it says that Liz, Maria, and MICHAEL investigate the double life of one of their friends. That means, for whatever reason, MikeyG is helping Liz with her investigation. With the new information she's uncovered why aren't the rest of them? Oh yeah, the distraction of Tess's baby.
Me? Think that's significant? Of course not!

z.a.
*Dreamer and part-time Candy Girl*

By MissLParker
05-02-2001, 09:15 PM
Good one Reggie. I like the comparison of the molasses with the jello. I have dreams like that all the time where I try to run but I am going so slow. I hate those. OT anyways!

I think of Larek's comment of Zan trying to change things to quickly. I wonder if this too applies to people. He is trying to hard to impose his will on others and in return they are rejecting him. I think that if Max gave Isabel some space she would make the right decision. I think his control makes her feel desperate and so she makes desperate decsions, ie leaving or running off with Khivar. Isabel keeps trying to capture "normal". She keeps saying that she wants a normal life , or christmas, or prom. Maybe her desire for normalicy comes less from being alien and more from being controlled.

By Wishful Thinking
05-02-2001, 09:37 PM
quote:Originally posted by Reggie:
As for Max being "slow and gentle" with her, ROTFLMAO! In the end, TESS was on top. She may or may not have been tender with him, but it's entirely in her control. (Hmmm.)[QUOTE]

Which really makes me wonder why she brought a blanket w/her in the first place, when she "knew" she could find Max there. (she drapes it on the jeep when she first is seen on the screen).

[quote]And BTW, she still had her bra on. The black stripe on her light back is clearly visible. It could have been a make-out session, and the BEM-let produced in other than (to borrow a phrase) "the usual way". It could be just as much a surprise for her, too!

Actually you're both right. The shot of them inside the conservatory, she has her bra on, but right near the end (the camera has panned out) you can see Max taking off her bra & Tess shrugging out of it-- (hence why I was screaming at the tv for Max to put that bra right back on & my roommate staring at me like I'd lost a whole lotta marbles )

By Wishful Thinking
05-02-2001, 09:41 PM
OT here... Posting to ask why is that when I post I can't view it or any other new posts afterwards (even though FF has posted my post). I have to go to other threads, kill some time & then come back & see if it works-- sometimes it does & sometimes it doesn't.

Why?

By Reggie
05-02-2001, 09:46 PM
quote:Originally posted by Wishful Thinking:
OT here... Posting to ask why is that when I post I can't view it or any other new posts afterwards (even though FF has posted my post). I have to go to other threads, kill some time & then come back & see if it works-- sometimes it does & sometimes it doesn't.

Why?

It seems that the FanForum software is Netscape-unfriendly. I'll bet you're using Netscape, right? Try hitting "Reload".

By Wishful Thinking
05-02-2001, 09:55 PM
Reggie actually i'm using Internet Explorer... so far I've tried shutting the program down & restarted it-- which froze my computer. So I rebooted & reconnected etc. and I'm still having the same prob.-- although I can see the posts on the 1st page only if I hit the reply-to-post button.

By shapeshifter
05-02-2001, 09:56 PM
maxcedo, knowing you as well as I do I realize it was just an accident that you put the link to the Rebel Alliance at the end of Thread 39!

StarBox, That's really a drag about Tess having stolen your comforter! But maybe it's just that you and EdR have the same taste?
quote:By haniczka:
Shapeshifter and FM, you believe ultimately Nicko, Lonnie, Rath and Tess are out to replace our Royal Four? Do they have any clue as to the power and problems Liz could put in their way? Why haven't they done more to stop her? Her trip to Sweden could have been sabatoged in so many ways.haniczka, You just gave me the idea that either the EA's (Evil Aliens) were trying to get Liz out of the picture by distracting her to Sweden (in which case they failed), OR, they were trying to stop her from going to Sweden (in which case they succeeded).

Tasyfa, About the 'surgical precision' of FM's timing: You have just made me realize that FM had to come when he did, because pre-Destiny Liz was too in love to want to break up, and pre-SH she wouldn't have believed any of it. It was at the time when she was closest to him (about to cement!) that she would most trust him.
quote:Originally posted by MissLParker:
...the descriptions of Zan the leader now seem to be making sense.
the way he interacted with Isabel, I could see why she would want to run off into the hands of Khivar to escape her tyranical brother.
Courtney's opinion of Michael seemed believable in this episode. ...then he loyalty to Max furthers the division between max and Isabel. ...

Why is all of this happening? Because he is putting his trust in the wrong people (Tess) as said by Nicholas who immediately looked at her. ...

How can the cycle not repeat itself?
...Liz Parker ...great post, MissLParker!

By MissLParker
05-02-2001, 10:17 PM
Awww Thanks Shapeshifter!

By Zero
05-02-2001, 11:53 PM
Hi all ! Finally got here - don't ask me about my crazy day - but Maxcedo's gang has taken care of posting the Table of Contents that I had prepared for this thread. THANK YOU for starting the new thread while I was out and about!!

By Zero
05-03-2001, 12:43 AM
Qfanny - Either the writers are ingenious planting such a fun clue with Liz's Cell Number, or we are ingenious (or you are) at developing clues out of thin air! I bet you wake up in the middle of the night sometimes with your brain in overdrive!

Okay - I have to sleep now! By all - and welcome to all the newbies and lurkers! StarBox - that is so cool that we have so many lurkers!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz can find it, and save the Pod Squad!)

By Evid
05-03-2001, 12:52 AM
Hi RBI's,

Did any of you notice the name of the restaurant that Alex ordered the take out from? It was Malee's Thai Palace.
Thai-Thailand where BUDDHA is highly practiced. Palace were KINGS take up residence. I'm not saying that Kyle and Max killed Alex, only that they might unknowingly be connected to his death. I keep thinking of Max having blood on his hands as a metaphor. The only connection between Max and Kyle at this point is Tess, not to mention both of them being mindwarped by her or someone else.
One more thing, I doubt that this is connected to Roswell but I just thought it was funny. There is a famous Thai restaurant in Phoenix Arizona called Malee's Thai on Main. I ate there last summer. I laughed when I realized we have a Arizona connection.

Evid

By The Behroness d'Roswell
05-03-2001, 02:09 AM
Metaphysicalgrl; Zero; Crazy4Roswell16; shapeshifter; aldebaran; GraceKel; moon maiden; MissLParker; roswelldiva; Taysfa

Spec on Leanna is not Leanna:

I formed a string = leannaisnotleanna:

From the string, I was able to come up with the following words:

Antenna
Sean
All
Ion

And thanks to Mr. Webster:

Antenna = sending or receiving electromagnetic waves

Ion = Electrically charged atoms

When I saw “atoms,” I immediately thought of atomic energy or an atomic weapon. Granted, I’m not a science wiz, so if there are any fans who are of the science persuasion, please feel free to add your comments or suggestions.

Barbara
aka/The Behroness d’Roswell
"You're right Leroy...Cement trucks do have the right-of-way" - The Lockhorns

By aldebaran
05-03-2001, 06:02 AM
Good morning! Some more questions and observations for you (I left my notes at home yesterday, so I couldn't bring these up....I sound like a schoolgirl! "Uh, I forgot my homework, teacher...") ANYWAY!

Any idea what the 3-circle red spinning thing was in Alex's room when Liz was on the computer? It was in every (or almost every) shot of her at the computer and it was perpetually spinning!
Why did the yearbook editor call Maria "Marina"? Was that just a slip up? Did anyone else hear it? I rewound a few times because it just seemed wierd.
OT, but did it look like Max was wearing lip gloss in the first observatory scene?
Reggie - Unfortunately, I too noticed the undoing of the bra (only noticed it in the second viewing - too much trauma the first time around). Wishful thinking would cause me to hope that it was just a heavy petting session
zeroAutumn - I was very excited to see that Michael would be helping out! I can't wait!!

By StarBox
05-03-2001, 06:10 AM
Good Morning!
Here is the link to the image gallery: http://ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/gallery.htm
I am going to refrain from posting any other gallery images on this thread because I went a wee bit screencap happy.
Please be patient with the next few posts - they are image-intensive:

FIRST - A few people commented that there was a watcher during the "sneaky" Tess smile in the desert scene.
Whoever you are - YOU WERE RIGHT.
A while back we speculated that the green-visioned thingy may be invisible - well this "watcher" doesnt have green vision but it IS invisible (or has shapeshifted into an object a la Nasedo in the pod chamber)
The kids being watched:

Okay - now here is the view from where they were being watched from - the watcher is inside Tess's SVU! More evidence for the multiple mindwarper theory. I also think Tess's smirks and eye rolls in this scene indicate that she is playing along with her "watcher" accomplice and is not a mindwarp "victim".

Okay - I am going to do multiple posts so all the images and text on page one dont make the thread go Carrie on us.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

By StarBox
05-03-2001, 06:28 AM
I forget who mentioned that the "sex" scene looked like a film image being replayed - but give the girl a gold

Here we go:
They kiss outside (btw - looks how Max's eyebrows are furrowed - kind of a weird look for a kiss - but what you'd expect for someone struggling against mind control):

Max pulls away and looks at Tess - looks very simialar to his expression in TLV after the kiss:

THE KISS REPLAYS

We see the images of SHADOWS( a huge visual clue/signal that this is not real)- they are "magically" inside the observatory

Now - onto the sex - this looks JUST like the posture of the sex mindwarp in Max to the Max - when Tess tells Max they have to get pregnant "the human way". Also - look how Tess appears in the throes of "ecstasy" and Max is totally stoic and still.........

And finally - look at Tess's hand - positioned on the TOP of Max's head. This is a really awkward pose - it is NOT natural - and her fingers are not running through his hair or anything seems similar to something we have seen before....

oh yes - how you MINDRAPE

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

By shapeshifter
05-03-2001, 07:00 AM
Yikes! StarBox, first maxcedo accidentally posts the Rebel Alliance thread at the end of Liz's Importance Thread #39, and now I get here and think I have been abducted by to Graceland where Tess is Elvis!

Okay, off to the real (ugh) world!

P.S. I just tried to make a $5.00 Donation to FF by clicking on the Amazon ad, but it wasn't workin. There were only 24 donations. This could be the beginning of the end for FF.

By aldebaran
05-03-2001, 07:25 AM
StarBox - Are you sure that they are being watched from inside the SUV? It looks like the view includes the steering wheel (and I thought it was the jeep's) - the only way to have such a shot it to be outside of the car in the front or inside and directly in front of the steering wheel (not possible inside any car). Maybe I am just not seeing this correctly or perhaps Bob is watching them???

By MissLParker
05-03-2001, 07:50 AM
aldebaran you read my mind. The view is definately from Max's jeep (BOB ). Notice the square windshield and the position of the steering wheel in both of the pics in StarBox's post.

Oh Starbox you make better sense of the craziness that is Roswell right now. Please let it all be a lie. I definately believe that contanct has to happen for a mindwarp, notice that Tess is always touching him or having contact (the imfamous foot massage )

By Zara
05-03-2001, 07:55 AM
quote:Originally posted by aldebaran:
Any idea what the 3-circle red spinning thing was in Alex's room when Liz was on the computer? It was in every (or almost every) shot of her at the computer and it was perpetually spinning!

I believe it's a clock. Alex probably built it himself, if I had to guess. It has a torsional pendulum, which means that the spinning is caused by a series of weights and springs. (I'm no physicist, but I play one on FANFORUM... :lol

Here's a very brief explanation from an essay called "The Balance Wheel - A Brief History of the Technology Or a Basic Physics Lesson on Oscillatory Motion" By Dr. Ed Fasanella (found on the internet...):

The balance wheel can be used to keep time because of the physics of the periodic motion of a rotary device attached to a spring. A weight suspended on a spring will oscillate at a given periodic rate depending on the strength of the spring and the "weight" (or technically the mass). A 400 day clock "torsional pendulum" is really basically a balance wheel.

What I love about that prop is its circular forward and backward motion. It's a time-piece, yet it looks like it moves backwards and forwards...

Time distortion, anyone?

I've got to go to work, else I'd go on...

Zara

By StephStephSteph
05-03-2001, 08:12 AM
quote:Originally posted by Qfanny:

Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology is all in the numbers. Her cell number is not 1-505-555-0125, it is .0125-.0125-.0125 in my book.

How's that?

OK, you're amazing!

By haniczka
05-03-2001, 08:14 AM
Starbox, thank you. I need to approach that scene with a scientific detatchment that I just haven't been able to master. Contrasting your images with the clip Redhawk posted last thread is helpful. -HH

By StephStephSteph
05-03-2001, 08:18 AM
quote:Originally posted by The Behroness d'Roswell:

Spec on Alenna is not Alenna:

I formed a string = AlennaisnotAlenna

I'm assuming you meant Leanna, not Alenna?

Also, Starbox: could we NOT post pictures of T and Max ( ) kissing?

It's bad enough I had to watch it last week, but do we HAVE to re-live it daily!?

By haniczka
05-03-2001, 08:58 AM
I'm glad you did Starbox. I had five minutes to run a watch that scene quickly, and I noticed something. When Max is at the observatory, he is staring at his star when Tess finds him (with her poopie blanket, BLEH). He starts talking about how he always feared the alien side of himself, the monster, and now he doesn't know what to believe anymore, etc. This is a SOLILOQUEY: he is talking to the star and to himself. She's barely there to him. He doesn't look at her, and he obviously doesn't include her when he says "I've lost everyone."

She walks over and the camera makes a point of showing she pulls his hand out of his pocket. Only THEN, does he turn and look into her face and things get ugly. SHE HAD TO TOUCH HIM to get him to look at her. -HH

By MissLParker
05-03-2001, 09:24 AM
haniczka exactly! I was thinking the same thing but couldn't find the right words. He seems so emotionless. She is always touching him before something happens. A couple of examples, she touches him before they kiss at the prom, she touches him before she takes him into the observatory both times. They are holding hands during the memory retrieving. The touching is going on and on.
I don't remember all of this touching in Season 1 which makes me wonder if the mindwarp is stronger when there is touching involved.

Ok the pics gross me out too, but the truth is in them. Let's not be squeemish.
I think someone should post side by side comparisons of those with ones from SH. Then we will see a real difference

Does anyone else notice Tess's wierd facial expressions when Max is talking to her. I don't know what they mean, but she seems very confused or caught off guard at first.

By 4everyoung
05-03-2001, 09:27 AM
Wow you guys are awesome. I rewatched and rewatched (not all) to catch some of the things you have seen.

Zara, great job on the clock. Not only is it BALANCE (Liz), but it has to do with time distortion. We know Nic knows how to use time distortion on Earth because we saw that in WO. I still think that his little belly pack had a small green rod or something and that's how he suvived Tess's fireball.

Great catch guys on the touching to mindrape and the watcher. That smilely smirk on Tess makes better sense if she is being watched. Kind of like an 'it's working' smirk.

I think some of the best lines in this ep were when M/T were at the ob the first time. Max described how he always thought that Antar was a dream and Earth real. Tess tells him the truth(?) when she says that Antar is real and 'this is all a dream'. Max asks her when can he wake up and again she tells the truth - It's up to you. Remember at the end he only says he is READY to wake up. He just doesn't.

Can anyone remember if Max has ever really explored his powers like the others. Like many other things, I recall that he had begun to and then the memory retrieval sessions began.

What an evil scheme - split up the podsquad and the humans. Sounds like Lonnie and Nic. Tess may or may not be a willing participant - the jury is still out on that one. Not sure if the evil ones really know the importance of Liz. Unless they have hooked up with Ava and she has shared her knowledge of Liz's change.

The arm thing with Liz and Max, Wow... So much was said without a word. When Liz told him to let go of her, the look on his face was one of utter shock. Like he couldn't believe that he was doing it. They looked at each other, like he was wanting to say he was sorry and she was wanting to say what is wrong. When he walked away, Liz really had that what is happening to you, I am so worried about you look. Like she really knows something is wrong, but she knows she must keep her focus elsewhere at the moment.

That thing with Tess taking Max's hand out of his pocket was really wierd and they did make a big deal out of it. I agree with those of you that this is another touching to mindrape clue.

Sorry this got so long. I can hardly wait for Monday (will have bbb (big barf bag) on hand).

By StarBox
05-03-2001, 09:38 AM
Aldebran - you are right - the watcher is in BOB - and as you can see - Bob appears empty - so the watcher is indeed invisible (or shapeshifted into an inanimate object). Perhaps a way to keep close tabs on Max....

Steph - there are SO many clues in the visuals that things are a mindwarp.
I apologize for posting caps of Tess - but it really is relevant. I say that because - I have a few more Tess pics to post....
Okay Tess's room in HOM:

And now - her room all girly and decorated (with MY bedspread grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr).
Yeah - mourning a friends sudden death always makes me want to decorate too. You can see the clearly shown ARIZONA (as in Copper Summit - home of Nicolas and the skins) Cardinals pad on the table in her room here.

Tess in both observatory scenes - her hair is straight in EVERY OTHER scene. I have caps - but I will spare you - notice here though that not only is her hair the same - she is wearing the same clothes.

Which brings me to the fact that I think Max is in an altered reality for large portions of this episode. Look at this - scene of Max w/Michael in the park:

The next scene is a school day
then we get Max back in the park - look - he seems to be in a trance. this is when Tess "appears"

Here is what I think - both of the park scenes happened in sequence - Max never left the park - he was in a trance-like state/altered reality. The observatory was an implanted memory. This cap of Max just staring blankly - it looks so suspicious to me.

Okay - Im going to move to a new post.
**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

By StarBox
05-03-2001, 09:50 AM
Okay - this is the last batch of caps.
I dont know what these mean - so theories are encouraged here!!!!
okay - In VLV Alex is shown in the science lab with a poster of a HEART, then he says "my heart" when he loses the money - now look in his bedroon - another HEART.

Alex also has an odd African shield - it doesnt really "fit" with anything else. Its kind of - HARDING-like......

The 4 instruments photo for the yearbook....any significance with this one???
There are THREE instruments positioned the same with ONE different....and where are his bongos???

Page from the file on Alex:

Writing on the "Olsen's" note

Liz on the white picket fence:

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

By MissLParker
05-03-2001, 10:15 AM
Is it me or does the writing on the Olsen's note look like the handwriting of a teenage girl?

By zeroAutumn
05-03-2001, 10:28 AM
I may be completely off on this, I still have to rewatch the episodes, but I want to get this down before I forget it.

I'm pretty sure that the hand Max had blood on in CYN and the hand that he grabbed Liz with is the same hand.

Symbolically this is quite telling.
What do you guys think?

z.a.
*Dreamer and part-time Candy Girl*

By JadeJaguar
05-03-2001, 10:40 AM
Alexis suggested that I'll post this here too. So I'm happy to oblige!

I read somewhere here on FF (I think it was in the Spoiler Dreamer thread but I really don't remember) that some posters suspected that the handwriting on the Olsen's flower card was the same than Tess' on her prom cards. I'm not too good with comparing handwriting but I thought there were similarities. So, be the judge.

Olsen's flower card :

one of Tess' prom card:

By Tasyfa
05-03-2001, 10:52 AM
quote:Originally posted by Wishful Thinking:
Actually you're both right. The shot of them inside the conservatory, she has her bra on, but right near the end (the camera has panned out) you can see Max taking off her bra & Tess shrugging out of it-- (hence why I was screaming at the tv for Max to put that bra right back on & my roommate staring at me like I'd lost a whole lotta marbles )

I watched with an FF friend and we missed the bra undoing the first time b/c we were throwing green gummibehrs at her TV

aldebaran The first thing I said when that observatory scene came on was that makeup had put too much lipgloss on JB! I've noticed that happening a few times over the course of the series

I can't find the original post, and of course there's the whole "creative licence" thing, but someone on Cherishing has a friend who's a fan and actually lives in Roswell, NM. This friend called after ITL&ITB aired, all upset b/c the real town of Roswell does not have an observatory. Like I said, this could be creative licence (and hence a big CHAD!), or it could be as StarBox said, and not even the observatory is real

Zero The first thing I thought of when Hansen called Sean a "real Zero" was you! I had just forgotten about it till you brought it up

MissLParker ITA with your post about if that's who Zan was, no wonder he went down! Perhaps Earth was chosen so that humanity could temper Zan's personality?

Ah, one more day till my local Canadian station actually airs this week's ep, and I can tape it and watch it again. Did I mention how this makes me?!

Oh, about the donations--the administrators are aware there's a problem now, and I think they're getting it fixed. There's a thread as well as the announcement banner, so they're going to post about it on the thread once it's working properly
~Tas

By StarryEyedGypsy
05-03-2001, 11:14 AM
quote:
I can't find the original post, and of course there's the whole "creative licence" thing, but someone on Cherishing has a friend who's a fan and actually lives in Roswell, NM. This friend called after ITL&ITB aired, all upset b/c the real town of Roswell does not have an observatory. Like I said, this could be creative licence (and hence a big CHAD!), or it could be as StarBox said, and not even the observatory is real

[/B]

Hi coming out of lurking. That was me Tas who posted that. I think more than likely it is a chad or creative license. My friend complains a lot about Roswell not being at all like the real Roswell. There is no airport in Roswell or Crashdown. Hey there is a UFO Museum and an alien festival though . I do think the Conservatory scene was a mindwarp. The whole scene was surreal. I know Liz will save the day - I just don't know if I can last two more episodes until she does.

By Metaphysicalgrl
05-03-2001, 11:43 AM
quote:Originally posted by MissLParker:
Is it me or does the writing on the Olsen's note look like the handwriting of a teenage girl?

If someone is sending flowers internationally (or even locally for that matter) and are doing it over the phone, as the florist guy indicated that the Olsen's (or whoever they were) did, it would be customary for someone at the florist shop to ask what you wanted the card to say, and they would fill it out for you.

{~}:}

p.s. Didn't we have this conversation in Season 1 when Topolsky sent Liz flowers -- pretending to be Max in order to get her to go to Senor Chow's? Oh how young and innocent we were then.

By iggy7275
05-03-2001, 12:32 PM
This goes along with the invisable storyline courtesy of the silverhandprint: CHECK OUT THE BOLDED WORDS >>>>> CLUES???
http://www.silverhandprint.com/media/nessie.html

By Zara
05-03-2001, 01:19 PM
quote:Originally posted by iggy7275:
This goes along with the invisable storyline courtesy of the silverhandprint: CHECK OUT THE BOLDED WORDS >>>>> CLUES???
http://www.silverhandprint.com/media/nessie.html

Interesting... Now if the swimming pool had been full of Jello, THAT would be a great clue!

Zara

By aldebaran
05-03-2001, 01:19 PM
iggy7275 - Good catch! I think this was actually discussed on this thread when the "press release" was first posted on silverhandprint, so you are definitely on the same track that other mythers were with regard to this article.

By MicMac
05-03-2001, 01:26 PM
Hi ALL
I was rewatching this past week's episode and something caught my attention.
When Liz was talking to Max before she got into the cab, he was telling her to get in his "car". I've always heard him refer to it as a jeep or vehicle, not a car. Now someone said the other day (I'm sorry, but I forget who) that from the way Tess is saying things (ex. "the infamous kiss")it sounds almost like she had a pre-decided script and that she never thought to change the words to fit the situation. Now if Tess is controling Max, and this situation is happening, wouldn't it be logical that some of Max's words wouldn't quite fit as well?
Just a thought.

By moon maiden
05-03-2001, 01:46 PM
everyone!

aldebaran: You're right. That article has been discussed before with the idea that maybe one of the protectors, or an evil alien, has evolved to the point of being invisible.

With regards to the "infamous" kiss, this choice of words becomes more interesting when you look at its meaning:

infamous: 1. having a reputation of the worst kind 2. DISGRACEFUL

Also defined as the state of being infamous, is the word infamy:

infamy: 1. evil reputation brought about by something grossly criminal, shocking, or brutal 2. an extreme and publicly known criminal or evil act 3. the state of being infamous.

Hmmmm...so many references to being evil...the word came out of Tess's mouth....coincidence?!? The funny thing is, how much of a reputation can this kiss have? As far as we know, the only people who know about it are Tess, Max, Liz, Maria, and Alex. Tess said "infamous" like the whole town knew about it and it was the hot topic of discussion! Oh, wait, this is Tess--knowing her the whole universe knows about it !!!

By Zero
05-03-2001, 02:14 PM
quote:Originally posted by Zara:
Interesting... Now if the swimming pool had been full of Jello, THAT would be a great clue!

Zara - that made me chuckle out loud! I love that we can find so much humor in all that is going on!

BTW - wonderful observations all!

Zero (the Real Zero! )
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz can find it, and save the aliens!)

By audrey11
05-03-2001, 03:25 PM
I realize that what I'm about to say may have already been discussed during S1, and that it may just be a major CHAD. But when you're explaining every theory you've ever heard to your latest Roswell convert , things just start to jump out at you.

Remember the conversation that Max and Liz had in Balance about Michael:
MAX: I remember the first time I saw Michael. It was in the desert the night we first came out of the pods. The sky was bright with stars and this full moon. Isabel and I found each other first. We didn't know how to speak, but we could communicate anyway. We walked for a while, but we could both feel someone else.

LIZ: Michael.

MAX: He said he saw us, but that he was afraid. So he just watched us for a long time. When he finally revealed himself, he was standing on this rock. Just like you'd expect from Michael. "Here I am. Deal with me." He said it was the hardest thing he's ever had to do...to trust us.

LIZ: So, um, how did you guys end up getting separated?

MAX: We all saw the headlights at the same time. Isabel took my hand. We knew we'd be safe as long as we stayed together. I held my hand out for Michael. I knew he wanted to. He just wouldn't take it. So we just looked at each other for a long time. Wouldn't see him again for 3 years. Isabel would cry every night, wondering where he was.

This is from Tess' version of what happened the night that the pod squad was born:

When Tess shows Max how he didn't want to leave her that night, Michael is in the pod chamber with them, and, if I'm not mistaken, leaves with Max and Isabel. In Balance, the point was made about Michael watching them, hiding from them. Now, either this is a CHAD on the part of the writers, or Tess missed a vital detail in her little MW of what happened that night.

By MissLParker
05-03-2001, 04:03 PM
Audrey, I know that has been covered on the CHAD thread.
What does everyone think about this? It seems to be too obvious a difference to be an unintentional CHAD and considering how close those episodes are to eachother are we supposed to notice this difference.
How can we not?

By Alexis
05-03-2001, 04:20 PM
Quote by Tasyfa
The first thing I said when that observatory scene came on was that makeup had put too much lipgloss on JB! That’s what I was thinking. It was really bad.

By TVPooh
05-03-2001, 05:13 PM
quote:Originally posted by Metaphysicalgrl:
If someone is sending flowers internationally (or even locally for that matter) and are doing it over the phone, as the florist guy indicated that the Olsen's (or whoever they were) did, it would be customary for someone at the florist shop to ask what you wanted the card to say, and they would fill it out for you.

{~}:}

p.s. Didn't we have this conversation in Season 1 when Topolsky sent Liz flowers -- pretending to be Max in order to get her to go to Senor Chow's? Oh how young and innocent we were then.

Yes, I remember reading this! but it came up again so.... maybe it means something? and how did the Olson's ( -son is the Swedish spelling, -sen would be Norwegian or Danish) find out Alex had died? It's a little odd that the SCHOOL would notify them. What exactly did the note say? Was it for Alex or condolonses?
Is it Monday yet?

By The Behroness d'Roswell
05-03-2001, 05:22 PM
quote:Originally posted by StephStephSteph:
I'm assuming you meant Leanna, not Alenna?

OMG...I can't believe I did that!!! *The Behroness slaps herself upside her head and in her best Homer Simpson voice* d'ou

Thanks StephX3 for bringing that to my attention...I will go immediately to correct my fauxpas. *I just love French*...EVEN when you make a major screw up it you just feel good about it.

Barbara

By redhawk
05-03-2001, 05:29 PM
Alexis - the yellow brick road. I'll be following it straight to the good fanfic soon... where the Roswell universe isn't so off-kilter.

liaso - great thoughts.

Zero - thanks for bringing up the "zero" quote from Hansen. When Hansen first said Sean is a "real zero", my first thought was, "hmmm, is Sean actually the Zero, leader of one of the five planets?" And actually earlier in the ep, when Liz comes to the Deluca house to question Sean about breaking and entering. The way she phrased it, she starts out asking how he broke into the bowling alley and I thought maybe she thought he had used alien powers to break in. Of course, later in the conversation, I realized she was "just" asking if he used a knife to get in. Now, do you see what being an RBI member has done to me? I'm always seeing clues in everything.

StarBox - I'm glad we can analyze those Tex pictures with such cool, scientific distance. (Although, at first, I wanted to hurl. ) I thought that was the same blue patchwork bedspread with yellow and orange pillows on top. Also, that fence Liz is sitting on is really a type of split-rail fence and not a picket variety. Darn! I really wanted her leaning on the white picket fence... see, Max, you've given up your true and loving girl and all your "white picket fence" dreams... Ha! Max, now what are you going to do to make this right again?

And just so we balance the thread off...
a truly beautiful Roswell moment...

By Donna2001
05-03-2001, 05:44 PM
quote:Originally posted by MissLParker:
Is it me or does the writing on the Olsen's note look like the handwriting of a teenage girl?

Like a teenage girl with bad grammar. From the first time I saw the note I wondered why they put "Olsen's" and "Whitman's" instead of Olsens and Whitmans. An apostrophe is only used with posession, i.e. Max's car, Isabel's room, etc. The families names should have been plural, i.e. one dog, two dogs; one Whitman, a whole family of Whitmans.
At first I thought that maybe they wanted to make it look like the note was actually written by a Swedish person who didn't know English grammar that well. But the flower order was taken over the phone so the florist would have written the note.
Clue or blooper? What do you think?

On a side note, do you ever wonder if the TPTB just like to put a bunch of clues out there but never actually use any of them? Maybe they just add them in to give people like us something to do.
Even though I think things like the .0125 in Liz's phone number or the Arizona Cardinals mouse pad in Tess's room are significant, it's really hard to believe that TPTB would actually elaborate on those clues in the show. I like to think that those clues are just there to let the people that bother to solve them (like us!) know what's really going on.

By Voyant
05-03-2001, 05:48 PM
If this has already been said, please forgive

Alright, in ITL&ITB Tess gives that speech to Max about what's real and what's not. The stars and their world is what's real and Earth is the dream. Then during the "sex" scene, the camera pulls back so that we get an above of the observatory and what's going on inside of it. Then it moves to sky above, where the V constellation lies, twinkling. The sex on Earth and the V in the stars. If you put what this scene in context with what Tess said, I think it's a major clue to the viewers that it wasn't real.
And if you take it even further, the scene only further validates the idea that everything with Tess is false and Liz is truth.

Voyant

By Wishful Thinking
05-03-2001, 06:26 PM
ITA w/the Podsters being viewed from somewhere in/beside/behind BOB. When I saw that shot the second time, I thought that with the lighter circle on Max it looked like they were being viwed using some high-powered lense (like a camera lense that uses a circle to let the viewer know that would be the center of the pic.).

If it was high-powered lense, then it could've been taken by someone hidden in the bushes behind the cars, with the line of sight aligned with BOB (hence why we would see the steering wheel).

Plus what was that when Tess took Max's hand out of his pocket-- totally strange!

Starbox I also thought it was strange that all the "romantic/kissy" moments between Max & Tess were off. Tess being passionate & Max numb (not that I want him to be passionate with her ).

Whoever (sorry ! ) mentioned the possibility of Alex having made that red spinny clock-- awesome! Do you suppose, if he did indeed build it, that he built it after he experienced WO & the lost time in MTD (he was afterall the only one that fell asleep/noticed the passage of time during the UFO centre 'meet & greet').

By Tasyfa
05-03-2001, 06:38 PM
Voyant I that idea! The dream is the Tex, and the reality is the V constellation, which is associated heavily with Liz. Bravo!

StarBox Great play-by-play of the Tex. 6throck, who does a lot of animations of M/L's kisses, said the way M & T were kissing was off, too. Her mouth was still closed when his opened, etc.; they were out of sync with each other, which doesn't happen with Liz. And several people noticed that it was definitely a stage kiss (i.e., no tongue--which isn't usually the case with M&L ). A possible reason for this is if Max is being MW/MR, there might be a slight delay in his actions b/c they're not coming directly from his own mind.

It's the same bedspread, and most of the same pillows, too (looks like she changed her sheets though ). It's just that in HOM the bed's all messy b/c Tess is lying on it, presumably doing homework, and in ITLITB the bed's properly made b/c it hasn't been used (thank God!). If you look closely at the HOM pic, you can see the same blue flower patterns as in the ITLITB pic. It's a gorgeous bedspread, BTW Also, there's something weird with the Image Gallery. The pics are partially stacked on top of each other and on top of some of the words, too. I just thought you should know.

I Shall Believe
~Tas

By sunrise
05-03-2001, 06:52 PM
ok, someone posted a link to the silverhandprint.com site with the tabloid article, well, here's what I noticed:

Lock Ness Monster---> change the N to T and you get = Tess

not trying to be mean, just thought it was funny

Roxy

Is it May 21th yet?

By sunrise
05-03-2001, 07:09 PM
One more thing, I know that a lot of you guys complain that the writers never tie up lose ends; well I really hope that they bring back things we haven't seen since season one. By doing that the writers will show that they are indeed reading and listening to what the mythers are saying. I have a little something to say about the "Destiny" episode, but I need to go back and read the transcript before I can comment on it.

BBL
Roxy

By Reggie
05-03-2001, 07:17 PM
OK, I'm not spoiled, and I haven't seen B,IY, so let me post some speculations here.

First, "Baby, It's You" isn't about the pregnancy. It's an accusation of Max, as the source of the problems. Think of the old political slogan: Nixon's the One. It turned out to be double edged...

As for Tess, it's alien all right.
She's having... an ORB! Hence the glow.
Qfanny

By Zara
05-03-2001, 07:27 PM
I've been reading Joseph Campbell this afternoon. I know Zero has covered this amply in the outline, but I'd like to quote Campbell's description of a couple of the steps of the journey directly, because the wording is so extraordinary in light of both Liz' and Max's individual stories. I'm only listing the first three steps of the journey now because they resonate so strongly with the story to date. I think to list more would be too much to digest in one post.

(the following steps of The Hero's Journey are quotations from "The Hero with a Thousand Faces," by Joseph Campbell) The copyright states that brief quotations embodied in critial articles are okay, so let's consider this a critical article of Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology as it relates to Campbell's "The Hero with a Thousand Faces."

quote:1. The Call to Adventure:

The call to adventure signifies that destiny has summoned the hero and transferred his spiritual center of gravity from within the pale of his society to a zone unknown. This fateful region of both treasure and danger may be variously represented: as a distant land, a forest, a kingdom underground, beneath the waves or above the sky, a secret island, lofty mountaintop, or profound dream state; but it is always a place of strangely fluid and polymorphous beings, unimaginable torments, superhuman deeds, and impossible delights.

2. The Road of Trials

Once having traversed the threshold, the hero moves in a dream landscape of curiously fluid, ambiguous forms, where he must survive a succession of trials.

3. The Vision Quest

It's not the agony of the quest; it's the rapture of the revelation.

Again, items 1, 2 and 3 are quotations. I thought this was fascinating. Forgive me for taking up space with it if you think it's inappropriate.

Zara

By Celtic Princess
05-03-2001, 07:34 PM
Hi everyone! I got "Loose Ends". Let me tell you, you're going to love it :0). FF better not shut down! Maybe it won't *crosses fingers*
Anyways..
I think in order for Max to wake up from the mindwarp, he needs to go to a priest to be exorcised But seriously.. I think the V constellation was a clue that Max is being MW by Tess and only Liz can save him and find out the truth
I gotta go. Have to make salsa for the Fiesta de Comida at my HS...
L8ter,
*~Mandi~*

By Metaphysicalgrl
05-03-2001, 08:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by Tasyfa:

It's the same bedspread, and most of the same pillows, too (looks like she changed her sheets though ). It's just that in HOM the bed's all messy b/c Tess is lying on it, presumably doing homework, and in ITLITB the bed's properly made b/c it hasn't been used (thank God!). If you look closely at the HOM pic, you can see the same blue flower patterns as in the ITLITB pic. It's a gorgeous bedspread, BTW

That bedspread wouldn't happen to be from Pottery Barn, now would it? Just curious, I was eyeing one from there and it looked a lot like that.

Inquiring minds need to know!!

{~}:}

By Metaphysicalgrl
05-03-2001, 08:26 PM
quote:Originally posted by StarBox:

FIRST - A few people commented that there was a watcher during the "sneaky" Tess smile in the desert scene.
Whoever you are - YOU WERE RIGHT.
A while back we speculated that the green-visioned thingy may be invisible - well this "watcher" doesnt have green vision but it IS invisible (or has shapeshifted into an object a la Nasedo in the pod chamber)
The kids being watched:

My theory on who the watcher might be????

-The other protector, who I still think might turn out to be Serena
- Future Liz! How COOL would that be???? Remember it was her idea to send FM back in the first place... Hmmmm... that would be a really interesting plot twist, don't you think?

{~}:}

By shapeshifter
05-03-2001, 09:12 PM
This has probably been brought up on other threads, but I haven't seen it here. My TA is a Roswell Fan and much smarter than most people, and she caught this: The photo of Leanna and Alex would be doctored to look as if he was in Sweden with Leanna, that is, he would have used pictures of Sweden taken in 1994 or earlier. This totally blows my whole Time Fold theory, but it also totally jives with Liz's conclusion that Alex never went to Sweden, and we know that Liz is correct!

And what good is it to keep all these threads if I can't get a personal Nya-Nya-Nya-Nyaah-Nya-I-posted-it-first out of them? So: quote:Originally posted by yours truly, shapeshifter, on the last thread:

(quote):Originally posted by lurker:
...little clues:
...2. dpty. hanson:sean you're a real zero...(/quote)

zero as in 0? like in the code?...***sigh*** I would like to take it as a sign that the writers are communing with us on this thread , you know, "zero," like maybe they want us to trust Sean?

By haniczka
05-03-2001, 09:33 PM
Crystaline, look what you started with the "watcher" thing! I think it's Nicko. He'd smirk in answer to you-know-who.

I've been thinking about what Tasyfa wrote awhile ago and I've decided I agree that Max was raped. I know some believe that when Max said that he was "ready to wake up" it was consent. I'd agree with that if Max had turned and said it before Tess pulled his hand out of his pocket, establishing physical/mindwarp contact. I think his hands were crammed in his pockets for a reason (possibly to avoid giving any more foot massages).

Does anyone know if Tess should have a clue as to the nature and depth of the Max/Liz bond? She knows from Is that they were very much in love when she arrived. But she doesn't really comprehend human love, so I'm not sure it would impress her. The dupes found a picture in Max's drawer, but that's the only clue they have. Is it enough? Why did Rath try kissing Liz? Are they really so obtuse as to think it was just a meaningless high school romance? I'm sure they're operating behind the scenes somewhere with or without another shapeshifter's help. They must feel Liz isn't much of a threat or that she's serving their purpose by further driving the group apart as Max has suggested.

Oh, one more thing. The florist reminded me of the way the Skins behaved in Harvest. The name of the shop was "Victor's Florist". Does that mean anything to anyone?

By StarBox
05-03-2001, 09:46 PM
Re: Tess's Bedspread - yes - it is from Pottery Barn - the Gabriela pattern. The one I will no longer be purchasing.

And you all are right - is in on the bed earlier - her room just was not done up to look pretty before.

Re: The Watcher - I think its an evil invisible watcher/mindwarper. Actually - I think it is Nasedo! I have never thought he was really dead. But - I am the only person that believes in that little conspiricy theory - so I am probably way wrong. Anyway - remember way back in season one - when Liz got the feeling that she was being followed down the alley......what if the evil watcher has been there all along.........

Also - I have to say - after rewatching this episode many times and then looking over screencaps - the set designers/lighting designers/costume designers just went out of their way to do a FANTASTIC job.
I really think they caught wind of our obsessive little thread and are throwing us clues all over the place. It has to be fun to be them - and to know that WE NOTICE!!!!
Anyway - really incredible use of light in this episofe - Max is shown in the shadows for almost the entire episode.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

By Metaphysicalgrl
05-03-2001, 10:05 PM
quote:Originally posted by StarBox:
Re: Tess's Bedspread - yes - it is from Pottery Barn - the Gabriela pattern. The one I will no longer be purchasing.

Damn I am good! Doesn't this particular bedspread also come in green?

Sorry for the OTness of this particular discussion, but it just goes to prove that the RBI team does not rest in the real world. We're always all about the details!!!

{~}:}

By shapeshifter
05-03-2001, 10:32 PM
Okay Meta & StrBx, I guess this is my chance to say that I soo covet Tess's pajamas with the polka dots!

Ooo! Ooo! Theory flash: "Can a leopard change it's spots?" That's an Old Testament quote (Jerimiah, maybe?) referring to the concept that an evil dude (or dudette) is not going to become a saint.

By tp
05-03-2001, 10:58 PM
STARBOX: ICAM with Nacedo still being alive. I truly believe that his "death" was a set up of sorts. Tess conveniently NEEDED to belong somewhere. What better way to have her included . . . knowing that M/I/M wouldn't turn her away after this!!

Also, Nacedo could keep an eye on things "behind the scenes" - helping Tess along without M/I/M knowing or suspecting!!

All of S1 protrayed Nacedo as being EVIL. His character was only "improved" within the last 5 minutes of S1. . . . not enough to convince me that his motives were good or well-intentioned.

By c. mccoy
05-03-2001, 11:10 PM
StarBox: The Nseado thing works on so many levels except one: Nseado wasn't faking his fear in S&B. He had no one to fake it for. So what scared him?

haniczka: Tess absolutely knows how powerful the M&L connection is. As Zero said: Ava must've heard a prophecy of this before. That would mean:
a. the metal alien book was a mindwarp which I don't believe or
b. She simply lied about its meaning.
Yeah, b sounds like our Tess.

By shapeshifter
05-03-2001, 11:52 PM
c mccoy & tp, About the book & Nasedo:
In season 1 Max said, "I'm not going to let some book tell me what to do."
Nasedo is a known killer of those who he determined 'needed' to die.
Thus I think Nicko's admonishment of Max for 'always' trusting the wrong people is typified by his growing relationship with Tess.
It's not that Tess is intrinsically evil, rather that she was raised by Nasedo and so is his disciple.

By Zero
05-03-2001, 11:55 PM
C. Mccoy - I have always loved the prophecy theory - and always felt that Ava's reaction to Liz's healing was a major clue towards supporting this theory. But ... time will tell! I will always believe that there is something significant to the fact that young Max gets off the bus, and is immediately drawn towards Liz! We saw this in the Pilot, and it would be soooooo cool if the finale tied this all together! I would realy appreciate that!

Zara - thanks for the additional info on the Hero's Journey. I believe that both Liz and Max are on separate journeys right now - with Liz being the one that will ultimately tie them together by "saving" the day.

I must say I listened to JK's commentary on ITL&ITB (I keep getting the Late and Bad mixed up ) - and I found it a bit disheartening. I states that the Tex is a natural progression of Max getting in touch with his alien side! (WTH!! ) Sorry, I don't buy that. I do understand the "need" for Max to explore his alien side - but to become a jerk (though some of that I could understand putting my "panic" mood mindset on) and sleep with Tess - I still have a hard time with it. AND as I've said before - if this is the true, original alien side coming out, well no wonder he was overthrown!

Oh - and Shapeshifter - you were the first to mention it.

Off to sleep - night all!
Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz can find it, and save the aliens!)

By aldebaran
05-04-2001, 06:09 AM
StarBox - Just wanted to let you know that I sympathize with your bedspread dilemma - foiled by Tess! Now we can see how far reaching her bad affects are!!
redhawk - Maybe TPTB had good intentions with regard to the type of white fence but didn't want to cause any pain for Liz by making her sit on the picket variety
Donna2001 - Good to see another grammar freak out there!!

I know that all mythers believe in the significance of the M/L hand-holding. As such, we knew that it was significant that it was only in this most recent ep right before the act that shall remain nameless that Max and Tess actually made hand contact. Do you think she was bright enough to figure out all on her own that she would have to initiate such contact for anything to happen with Max? Up to that point, she had all but gotten a piggy back ride from him for all the physical contact they had - BUT they hadn't held hands. I don't think it is coincidence that she pulled his hand out of his pocket to hold. Just wondering if she got the clue or if someone helped her with that.

By Alexis
05-04-2001, 06:16 AM
Okay, I am really stretching here, but while I was in a meeting it came to me. Look at the symbol on the orb:

There are three separate markings to the symbol:
1)The upper arc
2) the triangular center point
3)the lower arc.

The lower arc can be a curved “L”
The triangular center point can be the dot above an ”I”
And the upper arc and the lower arc together, the way they are on the symbol form a ”Z”

If this is the case, this may explain why LIZ saw the visions and found the orb.

What do you all think?

By shapeshifter
05-04-2001, 07:22 AM
quote:Originally posted by Zero:
...I must say I listened to JK's commentary on ITL&ITB ...- and I found it a bit disheartening. It states that the Tex is a natural progression of Max getting in touch with his alien side! ...Yes, it was disheartening, but I listened carefully (once) and noticed that JK didn't paint himself into a box on the Max/Tess relationship being the final solution.
A little foreshadowing of a Max/Liz reunion would be nice, but not necessary either. I wonder if as an artist JK has reacted against the fans outcry against Tess with Max? Of course, there are the Rebel Alliance folks. Rambing... off to work.

By StephStephSteph
05-04-2001, 07:26 AM
quote:Originally posted by Zero:

I must say I listened to JK's commentary on ITL&ITB (I keep getting the Late and Bad mixed up ) - and I found it a bit disheartening. I states that the Tex is a natural progression of Max getting in touch with his alien side! (WTH!! ) Sorry, I don't buy that. I do understand the "need" for Max to explore his alien side - but to become a jerk (though some of that I could understand putting my "panic" mood mindset on) and sleep with Tess - I still have a hard time with it. AND as I've said before - if this is the true, original alien side coming out, well no wonder he was overthrown!

I must admit - this is my BIGGEST fear! That all of the RBI will someday be proven wrong - that none of this "hidden meaning" stuff was intentional and it doesn't mean anything - that T ISN'T - that Max is just a huge jerk - and that Liz DOESN'T have some deep seeded Importance to the Alien Mythology!

Oh, say it isn't so JK!!!!

By Metaphysicalgrl
05-04-2001, 08:16 AM
quote:Originally posted by Alexis:
Okay, I am really stretching here, but while I was in a meeting it came to me. Look at the symbol on the orb:

There are three separate markings to the symbol:
1)The upper arc
2) the triangular center point
3)the lower arc.

The lower arc [b]can be a curved “L”
The triangular center point can be the dot above an ”I”
And the upper arc and the lower arc together, the way they are on the symbol form a ”Z”

If this is the case, this may explain why LIZ saw the visions and found the orb.

What do you all think?

[/B]

Actually, I think the traingle in the middle is representative of the Granolith.

The reason why I think this, is that someone on another board, who used to work for the WB, let it slip that's what it was. I tried to get him to clarify what he said, but never was able to. However, after he said that, and looking at it...it does make some sense...

What do you guys think?

{~}:}

By lil' sasha
05-04-2001, 09:39 AM
quote:Originally posted by Zero:
I must say I listened to JK's commentary on ITL&ITB (I keep getting the Late and Bad mixed up ) - and I found it a bit disheartening. I states that the Tex is a natural progression of Max getting in touch with his alien side! (WTH!! ) Sorry, I don't buy that. I do understand the "need" for Max to explore his alien side - but to become a jerk (though some of that I could understand putting my "panic" mood mindset on) and sleep with Tess - I still have a hard time with it. AND as I've said before - if this is the true, original alien side coming out, well no wonder he was overthrown!

I thought of his comments differently. I think although we wanted Max and Liz to be together, the whole Max-Tess thing really had to be explored. And by Max getting together with Tess he really is exploring his alien side (memory retrievals, talk about going home). However, as we have noticed, bringing out this alien side is not necessarily an entirely good thing. By focusing on the alien side, he is becoming more physical, violent, and unsympathetic to others. I think most viewers will decide that while Max may need to explore or finally face his alien side, they really prefer him and see him as a better leader when he with Liz (human). I think eventually Max will also come to this conclusion and I think this is where JK may be headed.

Another thought: rather than Tess mindwarping him, perhaps she is drawing out the Zan in him. We only saw 10 seconds of Zan (DupeMax) but he came off as a jerk while he was hanging all over Ava. For that matter, Rath and Lonnie were pretty jerky too. Perhaps the aliens only being with each other, draws out too much of the alien, which ultimately will prove detrimental to their mission.

By Tasyfa
05-04-2001, 11:03 AM
quote:Originally posted by lil' sasha:
I thought of his comments differently. I think although we wanted Max and Liz to be together, the whole Max-Tess thing really had to be explored. And by Max getting together with Tess he really is exploring his alien side (memory retrievals, talk about going home).

I always thought the Max/Tess relationship needed to be explored, too, I just never thought it would be quite as, hmm, thorough an exploration, shall we say? If it wasn't explored, then it would always be hanging over M&L's heads. Liz would never be certain that Max truly chose her. However, I don't believe it was necessary for Max to sleep with Tess in order to figure out that he doesn't really want to be with her!

quote:Another thought: rather than Tess mindwarping him, perhaps she is drawing out the Zan in him. We only saw 10 seconds of Zan (DupeMax) but he came off as a jerk while he was hanging all over Ava. For that matter, Rath and Lonnie were pretty jerky too. Perhaps the aliens only being with each other, draws out too much of the alien, which ultimately will prove detrimental to their mission.

Actually, this is a really good point. There could be a combination of things happening here. NY Zan was a far more forceful persona than Max, and he was definitely autocratic, a quality that Max is exhibiting now by his orders to Isabel, etc. At the summit Larek said that proto-Zan wouldn't listen to anyone about what he was doing; again, autocratic behaviour. Several people have brought up the fact that Tess may be more powerful now, but she's not powerful enough for this whole Stepford situation to be a mindwarp. So, what if it's a blend? If she's playing with his memories, altering some and implanting others (as the first kiss memory seems to imply), she could be activating his alien side as well. Also, one thing I was thinking about is post-hypnotic suggestions could be involved too. What if Tess is not only performing "Memory retrieval" with Max, but implanting commands at the same time? It seems likely that his mind would be vulnerable to that during their sessions. Add a touch of mindwarping at the appropriate time to a guy who is already responding to unconscious commands and other forces in his body (remember the alignment of the constellations) and it wouldn't be too tough to push Max over the edge. The strangeness of the line, "I'll be here for eternity," could be b/c it's the trigger for the Tex. When Tess speaks that line--which we all seem to agree is not something one would normally hear--Max's mind/body is primed to accept her and give into her advances.

Regardless, if Zan, Rath & Lonnie are indicative of the personalities of their proto-selves, then good riddance! The only problem I have with this is that proto-Rath was loyal to the point of death, which is Michael-like, whereas Rath shafted Zan without a second thought.
I Shall Believe
~Tas

By lil' sasha
05-04-2001, 11:28 AM
quote:Originally posted by Tasyfa:

However, I don't believe it was necessary for Max to sleep with Tess in order to figure out that he doesn't really want to be with her!

Oh gosh, I totally agree on that part! I should've made myself more clear on that. We all expected some kind of exploration by Max but we didn't think things would go that far, especially given his previous "dating behavior" with Liz. Perhaps the sex should be a major clue in and of itself--why would they go so quickly from one prom kiss to sex? Maybe the sex is a result of the "pulling Zan from Max"; a jerk would have sex whenever it was available, regardless of the consequences. Whereas a Normal Max would've have asked if it was okay, maybe they should wait, what would happen to the relationship, blah, blah, blah.

Taysfa, I really like the idea of a Tess implanting commands along with the memory retrieval. I suppose she can do this now? Ha, ha, it kind of reminds me of the Jedi Knights--"you will grant me entrance" and the response from the warped "I will grant you entrance". Except here it is Tess saying "I will be here for eternity" and Max responding "let's make babies" in zombie tones....

By Alexis
05-04-2001, 11:58 AM
quote:Originally posted by Metaphysicalgrl:
Actually, I think the traingle in the middle is representative of the Granolith.

The reason why I think this, is that someone on another board, who used to work for the WB, let it slip that's what it was. I tried to get him to clarify what he said, but never was able to. However, after he said that, and looking at it...it does make some sense...

What do you guys think?

{~}:}

I am not saying that the triangle in the middle isn't the Granolith. In fact, I think it is. BUT if Liz is the key it would make sense that the Orb might spell her name, especially since there must be a prophecy!

By brainchick
05-04-2001, 12:07 PM
I still believe that no matter what was shown to us in ITL&ITB that Max did not sleep with the thing. He was only made to believe that through a mindwarp and we're just along for the ride being lead to believe it, for now. But even though Max does believe it and he'll be lead to believe that he is about to be a father, his true feelings for Liz are still there. He is a little lost, confused and angry given the mindwarp and recent exchanges with Liz, but the feelings will resurface. That is when he make it clear to Tess that he will take care of his responsibilities but that he is still in love with Liz. Then the Tess issue will be resolved because she'll have to come to terms with despite all she has to offer (in her opinion) her love, a child, return to their planet, that Max still prefers Liz anyway. Then I think it'll get ugly. If we thought she was playing underhanded now, just wait to see what she'll do when she tries her manipulations and still doesn't manage to get the love of the man she thinks belongs to her. But regardless the Max/Tess situation will be resolved from the Max/Liz perspective because we will all know the truth about where Max's feelings are. He loves Liz, he always has, and always will. Now TPTB have 3 weeks to make that work.

By Tasyfa
05-04-2001, 12:13 PM
brainchick Well, 2 eps really, since OTM is showing out of order! I think most everything will go down in Departure; it's the nature of the season finale

I Shall Believe
~Tas

By Crazy4Roswell16
05-04-2001, 12:14 PM
WOW! It's been forever since I've been here because i've had just too much stuff to do!! I love all your theories though, they're pretty remarkable. I especially love the one that says T*** iniciated the mindwarp when she took Max's hand out of his pocket. And what right does she have to do taht anyway!? Max is Liz's!!! *growl* Ok Ok...Calming down. I really really hope that they do a reunion soon because I am just gonna have a cow!! And next eppy, I am gonna need a stuffed animal and a barf bag, I don't think I"ll be able to stand T*** claiming she slept with Max. It is just gonna suck big time. *sigh* And what the heck? How can the baby already be putting little hand prints all over? Unless like 3 months has passed or something!! And how long would it take anyway? This is all just to stupid to make sense. I seriously doubt she's actually pregnant. And if she is, they could always kill her and dump her body, right? :Meaghan hits herself for being so mean to the baby....: Ok well I'm gonna haed of. I'm home sick so I'm gonna watch the tape again....Barf Bag included...UGH

~*~Meaghan~*~

By 4everyoung
05-04-2001, 12:25 PM
Hi everyone

I was also one of those disheartened people after JK's comment, topped by Max's comment to Tess when he was explaining why he was scared to explore a relationship with her and he said that if he did 'he could never go back'. I am feeling better now that I have read your posts.

I think you guys might be onto something with the idea that these memory retrieval sessions may be bringing out the 'Zan' (alien) side of Max. And if Tess is also implanting commands, that would explain the sudden jump into bed. She knows that Max is hopelessly in love with Liz, so why not use the oldest trick in the book to really snare him.

Another thought, it could be possible that this had to happen for Liz/Max to see the evil within. Any takers?

TTFN

:cat

By Metaphysicalgrl
05-04-2001, 12:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by aldebaran:

I know that all mythers believe in the significance of the M/L hand-holding. As such, we knew that it was significant that it was only in this most recent ep right before the act that shall remain nameless that Max and Tess actually made hand contact. Do you think she was bright enough to figure out all on her own that she would have to initiate such contact for anything to happen with Max? Up to that point, she had all but gotten a piggy back ride from him for all the physical contact they had - BUT they hadn't held hands. I don't think it is coincidence that she pulled his hand out of his pocket to hold. Just wondering if she got the clue or if someone helped her with that.

Great catch! I was thinking about this and it reminded me of a cut scene from EOTW...

Act1:
INT. GRANILITH ROOM - NEXT DAY
Max, Michael, Isabel and Tess bathed in the otherworldly light. They don't know what it is or why it's there. These days they are just drawn here.

Tess: Maybe we should pool our energy.

Max: Pool our energy?

Tess: If we join hands and concentrate maybe we can make some kind of connection that we can't make on our own.

Max: Is this something Nasedo told you?

Tess: No. It's an original idea. Or isn't that allowed?

Max says nothing but give this no credence. Tess won't let it go.

Tess: (cont'd) Can we at least try it?

Max is silent. Tess looks to the others.

Isabel: I'll try it.

Tess: Michael?

Michael: If it pisses Max off, what the hell.

Tess, Isabel and Michael join hands.

Max: I really don't -

Isabel: Max.

Max takes Isabel's hand and then reluctantly Tess's, completing the circle. They all focus. Max is so uncomfortable holding Tess's hand - being in this proximity to her - after a few seconds Max breaks off. Tess looks at him, stung.

Tess: What are you doing?

Max: It didn't work.

Tess: You didn't give it a chance.

Max: I've got too much on my mind to play ring around the rosy, alright?

Tess: Holding hands is childish, but serenading Liz on her rooftop is crucial to our survival.

Beat. Max looks at her, how does she know about that?

Tess: (cont'd) It's a small town, Max. Sing in Spanish, it gets around.

Max: My relationship with Liz is none of your business.

Tess: It's not that you think joining hands is a bad idea, you just can't stand to touch me.

Max is busted. She's nailed him.

Tess: (con't) I am so out of here. Grow up, Max.

Now, if it's true that Max is being mindwarped, and has been for awhile maybe this scene would've been evidence of when it began, had they not cut it out.

I thought you guys might find this interesting.

And, Alexis in regards to the pendant spelling out Liz -- hey, it's totally possible. Your post just reminded me that a certain someone had slipped up this information -- that the triangle represented the Granolith, so I thought I would pass it on here... Well, I guess we'll find out the truth soon enough!

{~}:}

By roswelldiva
05-04-2001, 01:16 PM

I knew it! ATTENTION! I have solid proof Tess is an alien!

May I present to you the evidence:

Pay close attention to the upsidedown CARDINALS sign on the desk in the bottom.

TESS is an ARIZONA :CARDINAL FAN . NUFF said! Even their home stadium is called 'SUN DEVIL STADIUM'. See! We were right all along !

Well thats that!

By Evid
05-04-2001, 01:17 PM
Hi RBI's

Tas & lil'sasha: I think what really bothers me about what Jason Katim's said was that he is telling the teen veiwers that in order to find you self you should have sex. This is morally the wrong message to send these highly influenced viewers, even if Max is part alien. I for one will stop watching JK's work if he continues with this way of thinking.
I really thought when I begin to watch Roswell that JK was different then the rest of WB cop outs. I said to myself, now this guy is going sway teens in a direction that will teach good values, supportive friendships and virtue. That alienation is wrong and true love is out there if your willing to trust your heart. That's one thing I always loved about Max and Liz, thier relationship was baced on their love for each other from the very beginning. I really think, like Max, Katims took the easy way out and in doing so left their hearts out of the equation. I just hope some how he can make this wrong a right, but I won't be holding my breath.

Evid

By totenhosen
05-04-2001, 01:20 PM
ok, so i know this hasn't been mentioned in a while, but somebody earlier said something about the scene in the promo where max has touched the baby through tess's stomach and is sitting across the room gasping for air. i believe the comment was an idea about max seeing the evil within tess or the baby. i was watching the promo again, and i just wanted to suggest another idea that occurred to me. this all happened after we see tess saying that there's something wrong and also falling on the floor. what if max is connecting to the baby and is experiencing what the baby is going through? that would mean that the baby is suffering pretty badly, if it's affecting max that way.

now, whether this whole pregnancy is a mind warp or not is still up for debate with me, although i would prefer that tess is not actually pregnant. (besides, if the baby's that big inside her, where's it fitting? i mean, she's not exactly big enough to be housing a baby in there without some of her organs going somewhere else....) so regardless of it being a mindwarp or not, this would just add to the pressures on max to go home, wouldn't it?

totenhosen

By Tasyfa
05-04-2001, 01:58 PM
Evid ITA with the wrong message being sent if the Tex is true I don't believe it is, though. Still JK's commentary really bothered me. Perhaps he was attempting to justlfy the current plot device, since he is certainly aware that the vast majority of viewers do NOT want Max with Tess.

totenhosen (sp? Sorry!) In VLV Max had a flash of the alternate future, could he have a flash of the baby's future from Tess' glowing tummy? Maybe that's why the baby seems so big in the flash he gets, b/c it's some kind of distress the baby will experience when it's close to being big enough to be born? I realize I'm reaching here!

I Shall Believe
~Tas

By sunrise
05-04-2001, 02:50 PM
I'm glad someone brought up the destiny book again. Would someone be willing to put pics of it. I don't know if you guys already did this as soon as they first came out, but I wanna compare it to what the mom-o-gram said. I just wanna know if what she said directly corellates with the book. True we don't know what the book says but maybe the pics will say enough. Or maybe you guys already did this and formed a conlusion?

Roxy

By firefly
05-04-2001, 02:56 PM
hey all!

i'm kinda new to this but some of these theories just blow me away, they are so good!

I'm from the UK and have only seen up to TS&TP but i've got alot of the general idea of whats gonna happen and have a few of my own theories. they aren't half as good as any of yours but i wanted to tell them to people who could really appreichate them-unlike my non roswellian school mates!

this has probably been discussed before (Sorry if it has) but i've been having ideas of what actually happened on the pod squads planet to lead to current events. feel free to trash this idea cos my aim is to find out the truth (isn't everyones?) and i need all the clues i can get.

OK. suppose the royal Four were supposed to be King Max (aka Zahn) and bride LIZ, and King's sister Isabel (aka Vilandre) betrothed to King's second Micheal (aka Rath). together the made a unit but wanted a fifth person to make themselves stronger- cos they needed a centre point. Enter Tess (aka Ava), choosen cos of strong powers or stratgically placed by rebels/Vilandre etc. After follows the war with the other planets, Vilandres love for Kavar etc. and so the FIVE have themselves duplicated in the event of them dying. however this plan is sabotaged- by Vilandre, Tess, Kavar or someone- anyhow, Tess and Liz's DNA is switched so Tess will be Max's bride and Liz becomes the centre point. however, the people who sabotaged this would not want the new five to be strong and so destroy Liz's pod and 'kill' her. BUT someone, maybe Zahn, discovers all this and, although he can't save Liz he can put her essance into someone where it remains dormant untill revived by the meeting of her true love (ie Max/Zahn). Could Liz's essance have been put in, say, Grandma Claudia? then pass down through the generations until 'activated' when Max healed her? this would explain why Liz disappeared in WO, cos she is not a hybrid but fully human.

I'm really sorry, this has gone on far too long, you've probably all left already. any one still lingering please tell me how plausable this theory is, i need so expert advice!

By sunrise
05-04-2001, 02:57 PM
On another note, can I just say how P*SSED OFF I was when JK said that Max and t*** "made love" What a bunch of BS!!!! How can you make love to someone who you do NOT love?!! And if Max did love her than why did he never tell her that? Isn't this kind of intimate act the type where you reiterate your feelings? And you know why? It's because it was not making love! It was S-*-* (IF it was real, but I'm an advocate of the MW/MR theory)! And for that matter, t*** never told Max she loved him either! Unless I'm mistaken I never heard her say those words to him or anyone. Of course with little or no humanity it's understandable, but still... The only thing she has done is remind Max that he loved her in ANOTHER LIFETIME, she needs to stop living in the part.grrrrr.

Sorry for my rant, I just needed to let it out, thanks

Roxy

By Evid
05-04-2001, 03:21 PM
quote:Originally posted by sunrise:
I'm glad someone brought up the destiny book again. Would someone be willing to put pics of it. I don't know if you guys already did this as soon as they first came out, but I wanna compare it to what the mom-o-gram said. I just wanna know if what she said directly corellates with the book. True we don't know what the book says but maybe the pics will say enough. Or maybe you guys already did this and formed a conlusion?

Roxy

sunrise: Here you are as requested. This is all I could find a the ddd.

By SciFiMom
05-04-2001, 03:48 PM
Just ran across this and had to share it!!! I sure hope it is true!!! Wanda's sources say UPN will be picking up Rsowel!!!
http://www.eonline.com/Gossip/Wanda/Archive/010504.html

By Tika
05-04-2001, 04:37 PM
Right on Starbox! *high fives you for putting up the screencaps of Max and Tess!* It's true, they both were WAY out of sync, and it looked so unnatural! It was me that noticed that film break and repeat, and the only reason I analyzed the whole 'sex' scene was because I knew it wasn't real. I think JK and the writers finally gave us a break ( no pun intended) that we needed to see our theories come to life.
To all those people that were brave enough to watch the scenes again at my request, thank you! I know you would all rather get another hole in your head, so thank you a million times over!
Oh hey: Maxcedo Thanks for putting the link straight on the M/T lover site....you should of seen the look on my face :jaw-drop: I was like 'oh no! Rebel Territory! Tell me it ain't so!' It's okay, I forgive you!
I was looking at the screencaps that showed the camera looking into the rear veiw mirror, and then the next one that showed the pod squad. I'm not sure, but I believe that the screencap that shot the rearview mirror, in the background, I swear I saw a support line in the background hanging on the back frame, which shows that it is Max's jeep. I'd check again, or I'd lose this post. So check it out for me, and I will again, just to make sure.
I know I'm gonna make a lot of people by saying this, but I think it was just a clever pan shot of the camera crew. You can see that there wasn't anybody in the jeep. I do however, accept the theory of a high projection lense angle that caught the foursome walking to the jeeps. But, only time will tell, right everyone?
I totally want to stress a point here, since I've been reading this... If we all go back a few eppy's, we saw that Liz and Ava really got along after Ava's prediction, and Liz was one of the first to warm up to her when they met Ava. I could litterally see the look on Ava's face as she realized something was different about Liz, and confirmed it with the prophecy. I do feel, however, that she didn't say everything, and when she left she said "Look, I ain't got time to explain, you just gotta TRUST me!" And then runs off just proves that she was hiding more than she knew/said. Tess however, seems to know WAY more than she is about to tell, and in result, is desperate to get Max's full attention on her. Which brings me to my conclusion.... In leu of the stars lining up in the V, and Liz narrowing down on the clue trail, and the (fake, because we refuse to believe it's real) sex, I believe that there is a closing time frame that Tess and her cohorts (presumably the dupes and Nickolas, who never dies) in which to get crackin' and get movin'. I think that they think that they've wasted enough time, which would result in the icky foot rubbing, and Tess thus showing up at every possible moment.
I want to commend the person who did the screencaps on the destiny book saying that it should be veiwed instead of read, and showed the differences in the pictures, relating to the translation to the book...with the binary code, to the application....??? Well, something to that effect, anyway? It was on the last thread, and I would've said something sooner except it got closed and I got linked to the hellish dimension of Roswell. *shudders*
Anyway....*clap* I think you were really onto something there!
Well, didn't mean to make this so long...*sigh* Is it Monday night yet?

By shapeshifter
05-04-2001, 05:23 PM
quote:Originally posted by Evid:
... I think what really bothers me about what Jason Katim's said was that he is telling the teen veiwers that in order to find you self you should have sex. This is morally the wrong message to send these highly influenced viewers,
... I really thought when I begin to watch Roswell that JK was different then the rest of WB cop outs. I said to myself, now this guy is going sway teens in a direction that will teach good values, supportive friendships and virtue. That alienation is wrong and true love is out there if your willing to trust your heart. ...Evid, I agree, but I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet. I'm unspoiled, but based on the preview, I would say Tess & Max suffer some pretty dire consequences as the result of their trist.
quote:Originally posted by Tika:
...I know I'm gonna make a lot of people by saying this, but I think it was just a clever pan shot of the camera crew. You can see that there wasn't anybody in the jeep. ...Tika, I thought the same thing about the camera angle, but then again, I'm not entirely sure.

And Tika, Maxcedo tried to go back and change the link, but TPTB had already closed it, and once that's happened you can't alter anything.

By redhawk
05-04-2001, 05:24 PM
quote:Originally posted by lil'sasha:
Ha, ha, it kind of reminds me of the Jedi Knights--"you will grant me entrance" and the response from the warped "I will grant you entrance". Except here it is Tess saying "I will be here for eternity" and Max responding "let's make babies" in zombie tones....
I could sooo picture this. You had me laughing about the Tex and that's a good thing.

Evid - ITA. That's just the way I feel about the whole thing. That's why I've been rummaging around in my closet for those lost ruby slippers.

sunrise - I have most of the symbol pages of the book up on my site with easy side-by-side comparison of the individual symbols if you want to take a look. The alien book has always perplexed me and I swear my subconscious is constantly on overdrive mulling those symbols over.

SciFiMom - Thanks for the link. I hope she's right. I have to stop at the post office tomorrow to drop off my tabasco sauce.

By redhawk
05-04-2001, 05:38 PM
My latest illustration for WR's fanfic "The Importance of Being Elizabeth":

"Anguish" illustrates Book One. http://www.olde.worlde.btinternet.co.uk/wrfanfic.html

Working on this piece made me say often, "Where, oh where has that undying love that Max had for Liz gone?" I'm sure it's still there. As some of you have pointed out, he does not say he loves Tess which, of course, is one of the reasons I say that that has to be Stepford Max. The Max we all know and love would never have Tex and not be in love with her and tell her so. Hope the pic doesn't distress you too much. WR's fanfic has a happy ending I'm sure, right WR?

Sorry if the pic was a bit large.

By Reggie
05-04-2001, 06:48 PM
WORD on grammer, syntax, spelling, etc.

About the "Tex" : don't forget that according to the whole last year Tess is Max's wife. Oh, some have been fighting it- killed just before the wedding, or some such nonsense. Nevertheless, Tess has believed it all her life (this time around), and there's the Mom-o-gram to confirm it. Reality check: married people do it. The kids watching know this. It was "worse" to show Lonnie and Rath going at it, really: they were never married.

Besides, they may not last. But would you want Liz to be a homewrecker? Better they get it out of their systems when she's clearly out of the picture.

By firefly
05-04-2001, 07:01 PM
hate to be a pain, but like i said, i'm new at this. what si this 'Tex' thing? is it just a fan name or something that happens in an ep i haven't seen?

By tvevil
05-04-2001, 07:47 PM
haniczka
Poopie blanket... what a scholar.
The evil is within. It shall be done.
Haniczka, you have obviously have missed the point and have little knowledge of the inner workings of the show. I would suggest getting copies of old tapes and reviewing them very closely. Like the works of T.S. Eliot you must disect each word carefully. Family entertainment, foot massages, alien strategic bombing, rape ... bird doo-doo. I see nothing. I am the alpha and the omega. Where are your priorities. What body of work will you have to show your grand children. Bird poop?? The aliens are among us and you can't stop them. They will slowly become the ruling class. Live long and prosper. The aliens will, even if this show does not...

By dreamertoo
05-04-2001, 07:54 PM
quote:Originally posted by StarBox:
Good Morning!
Here is the link to the image gallery: http://ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/gallery.htm
I am going to refrain from posting any other gallery images on this thread because I went a wee bit screencap happy.
Please be patient with the next few posts - they are image-intensive:

FIRST - A few people commented that there was a watcher during the "sneaky" Tess smile in the desert scene.
Whoever you are - YOU WERE RIGHT.
A while back we speculated that the green-visioned thingy may be invisible - well this "watcher" doesnt have green vision but it IS invisible (or has shapeshifted into an object a la Nasedo in the pod chamber)
The kids being watched:

Starbox- this is a picture of someone watching them through the front windshield of the jeep. You can see the steering wheel and the corner of the window frame in it. Hope you don't mind me jumping in at the last minute.

dreamertoo

By Reggie
05-04-2001, 08:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by firefly:
hate to be a pain, but like i said, i'm new at this. what si this 'Tex' thing? is it just a fan name or something that happens in an ep i haven't seen?
It's a word coined to mean the act of Max having sex with Tess. Tess sEX.

Don't worry about being a pain; we've all been new at this. Sometimes the new folks have the most interesting insights!
Welcome!

By sunrise
05-04-2001, 08:12 PM
quote:Originally posted by Reggie:
WORD on grammer, syntax, spelling, etc.

About the "Tex" : don't forget that according to the whole last year Tess is Max's wife. Oh, some have been fighting it- killed just before the wedding, or some such nonsense. Nevertheless, Tess has believed it all her life (this time around), and there's the Mom-o-gram to confirm it. Reality check: married people do it. The kids watching know this. It was "worse" to show Lonnie and Rath going at it, really: they were never married.

Besides, they may not last. But would you want Liz to be a homewrecker? Better they get it out of their systems when she's clearly out of the picture.

Ok, we don't actually KNOW that they were married. The word "wife" has never been used to my recollection. t*** has been called a lot of things (especially by those on this thread ), but never wife. She's been called 'bride' and 'girlfriend' but never wife. Maybe she was going to be, but her being one is not a fact. It is a speculation until we get confirmation from someone with credibility, cuz we still don't have enough trust in t*** to believe it if it came from her mouth. That's just my $.02

Roxy

By Qfanny
05-04-2001, 08:15 PM
I'm sorry, but protoMax and protoTess were married before - in that past life. Liz says so in HoM. If it comes from Liz, then I think we have to accept it as true. When has Liz ever been wrong??????

By shapeshifter
05-04-2001, 08:17 PM
Tasyfa & lil sasha, Your ideas of Tess drawing out the alien side of Max totally fits with everything he has ever said: last season when Liz asked him what it was like kissing her, and recently when he expressed his fears to Tess. Maybe this is the result of 'alien sex,' and partially contributed to the agressiveness of the Dupes. Perhaps it was intended to awaken the 'warrior' in the podsters. If so, I would think the human part of Max would still be inside somewhere, protesting. And the newly humanized Michael is bound to see it.

By haniczka
05-04-2001, 08:51 PM
tvevil, you forgot to comment on Victor's Florist. -HH

By Zero
05-04-2001, 08:56 PM
Hi All! and welcome to the newbies!

Evid - ITA with your post about the Tex. Now Reggie - I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from, BUT what seems to be lost in all this discussion is the fact that they are NOT their former alien selves, but hybrids made with human DNA. SO - they also have a human side that as we have seen from Grandpa Dupree does have a "past" life, too! So - they have to embrace their alien past, why don't they also have to embrace their human past and the relationships that go with that??

firefly - welcome from England! Your theory actually is one that has been put forth before and is included in the Intro! So - don't think it is to far fetched at all! It is very possible!

Qfanny - I do believe that Liz "thinks" they were married - but with all the mindwarping going on, who know what is true and what isn't.

Finally - the recently posted alien book pages made me think that it is possible that the alien book can only be read in conjunction with a decoder of some kind that you lay the pages over, and certain symbols light up depending on the page decoder used. I don't know if this makes any sense - I don't know how to describe it without a "show and tell" - - but it would make sense given the punched out letter/symbols.

See you all later -
Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz can find it, and save the aliens!)

By haniczka
05-04-2001, 09:27 PM
Oh, and firefly, I'm no expert - we ALL know that, but I like your theory. There have been others echoing the possibility of Liz's essence being passed down through Grandmother Claudia, but yours had some very original twists. -HH

By GraceKel
05-04-2001, 10:08 PM
Hello Fellow Mythologists--Firefly nice spec, very similar theories have been posted by many of us on these threads since this thread began LOL!!!

Hey ZERO--you were the first one I thought of when Hanson called Sean a ZERO LOL!!!! And shall I add that we have been blessed with that song "AMAZING GRACE" not once this season but twice!!!!! Do you think they are trying to tell me something---LOL!!!!! No I am really just kidding!!!

Okay a couple more noteworthy observations---Sean says he will be doing community service til he is SENILE--CRACKERS-CRAZY-a LUNE-paranoia schiz,cornball, just to name a few--keeps bring me back to that brain capacity comment of James Athertons-just don't have all the pieces yet.
ALSO
Michael tells Isabel when he is trying to talk her out of going away to college about GANDARIUM springing up out the Roswell SEWERS??????? Well to hear the word sewers reminds me of the DUPES and Nicholas-anyone?

Starbox-nice info on the blue greens but the colors that stuck out to me in that scene was the blue and yellow---which reminded me of the colors of the drug bags in the WHITE ROOM episode.

By Evid
05-05-2001, 12:09 AM
Hi RBI's

I noticed this pic of the RED cab. Is Liz headed for the Red planet? What does it mean? Anybody. One other thing that I noticed was the 3NO6, is this clue telling us that their is NO longer 3 but 6? Max, Iz, Michael, Liz, Maria and Kyle.

Evid

By 4everyoung
05-05-2001, 12:19 AM
Hi everyone

Burning the midnight oil here with a million thoughts buzzing around in my mind. Many have mentioned noticing that smirky smile that Tess does when the podsters are walking towards the jeep and Iz says something about maybe Liz is right. Well, it kept bugging me and I thought I had seen it before and whaawhoo - rewind to the dupes and the smirky smile that came across Lonnie's face when she and Rath were scheming Zan's death. Same type of smile. So (I keep coming back to this)was that Tess or was that Lonnie who said they wanted to go home to Roswell at the end of MITC? Anyway that was something that was bugging me. We saw Lonnie change to look like Iz, but we don't know if she can change herself to look like someone else. Feed back welcome..

TTFN

Great! Now we're going to help someone we don't like based on the word of someone who never tells the truth - Tao to Dar in Orpheo

By huggybehr
05-05-2001, 05:28 AM
quote:Originally posted by Reggie:
About the "Tex" : don't forget that according to the whole last year Tess is Max's wife.

Tess is not Max's wife. Tess and Max are not the same people they formerly were on their planet. Their alien essence has been cloned and mixed with human dna to recreate them into human beings. The nurturing and experiences they have gained on earth have created new personalities and different people have emerged. Tess is trying to recreate something which no longer exists. They both died, so whatever relationship they have now should be based on what Max feels for the person Tess is now, not some unreliable memory of something which may or may not be true. Max knows next to nothing about Tess. Who is she? To this day, I have no idea what sort of person she is, which is why I neither like nor trust her. The writers have taken no time to show us a personality for her. Even the scenes with Kyle were totally contrived to play with our emotions and since they came out of nowhere they did not convince me that 10 years of conditioning by Ed could be wiped out by a few months with the Valentis.

If Max is supposed to be with Tess because she is loyal and supportive and always in the right place at the right time, then more fool him. And yes, I have seen what passes for Roswell these days.

By shapeshifter
05-05-2001, 07:15 AM
quote:Originally posted by Evid:
...I noticed this pic of the RED cab. Is Liz headed for the Red planet? What does it mean? Anybody. One other thing that I noticed was the 3NO6, is this clue telling us that their is NO longer 3 but 6? Max, Iz, Michael, Liz, Maria and Kyle. Evid, Qfanny said that when she was at the shooting of CYN that they only had 2 NM license plates on the set and so had to keep recycling them (too bad Lonnie wasn't around ). So I am thinking that as much as I your Red Cab = Trip To Red Star idea, and I think it is a real possibility that they chose a Red Cab over a Checkered for this purpose, I doubt the numbers on the plate have any significance outside of the **Magic** of Roswell as we know it.
quote:Originally posted by 4everyoung:
...that smirky smile that Tess does when the podsters are walking towards the jeep and Iz says something about maybe Liz is right. Well, it kept bugging me ...It bugs me too, but I think it simply means that she has no respect for Liz or her opinions.
quote:Originally posted by huggybehr:

Tess is not Max's wife...huggybehr,
You are correct. And we've got just a few episodes left for Max to see this "pertinent fact."

By Wishful Thinking
05-05-2001, 08:55 AM
quote:Originally posted by Evid:

One other thing that I noticed was the 3NO6, is this clue telling us that their is NO longer 3 but 6? Max, Iz, Michael, Liz, Maria and Kyle.

Shapeshifter the 3NO6 Evid is talking about itsn't located on the liscense plate, but on the car itself. (just below & to the right of the RED CAB writing).

Awesome idea Evid!

Hugybear ITA the Tess is not Max's wife in that they are not who they once were, so she is trying to recreate something that doesn't exist. Your explanation was fantastic & I read it thinking that it's just like baking (corny I know ).

The Podsters were once 100% alien, now they're part alien essence and part human DNA-- like baking a cake, if you make one using eggs (ie: alien essence) the end result is not re-created eggs, but a totally different product-- a cake (or a Podster). Okay very cheesy, yes, but it's lack of sleep .

One thing that has always bothered me in MITC is Tess's line to Max (when he steps outside the summit, to mull over Nicholas's proposal). She said "Because despite whatever Nicholas said about you in there, I know that you were a great man in that other life. A great king. I know it in my bones.
What exactly did Nicholas say? Nothing but lay Khivar's proposal down on the table-- oh and calling Tess Max's genocidal girlfriend. Nicholas's speach of 'why your predecessor was killed because you made bad decisions' speech didn't happen until after the summit was over (Max, Tess, Nicholas, & Larek/Brody were left in the room).

Thoughts, suggestions? This line has always bugged me as being off, since Tess is referring to something that wasn't said, unless of course she's in cahoots with the bad guys & made a Freudian slip...

By brainchick
05-05-2001, 10:37 AM
I personally am not buying the whole sex and baby deal. I think it fake/mindwarp. I think that Tess teamed up with Nicholas so she could get Max to fall in love with her and away from Liz. But I have an idea. What if the baby is real, just not Max's. It's the second oldest trick in the book to catch a man. Get pregnant by someone else and tell the man you waat the baby is his. In particular, if the baby is real, I think it's Nicholas'. This would get past the whole hybrid breeding/infertility issue. Plus it might explain why the baby is sick. Nicholas' race can't survive earth environment with out husks, so maybe his child wouldn't be able to either. Just a thought. What do you guys think?

By shapeshifter
05-05-2001, 11:31 AM
brainchick, I don't think JK would go there precisely because it is the oldest trick in the book.
Someone (Starbox? GraceKel? Zara? Alexis? sry) observed the parallels of this season's epis with last season's, starting with TLV. So then, this next would be the token teen pregnancy ep. It is a worthy subject, and should be addressed once per season. Well, in a few days we will see how it all pans out.

By roswelldiva
05-05-2001, 11:48 AM
I guess not to many NFL fans in here didn't like my Cardinals joke . Its ok *sniff, sniff* ...

{{Edited because I read some spoilers after posting this so gonna ruin it }}

By Tasyfa
05-05-2001, 12:30 PM
quote:Originally posted by 4everyoung:
Many have mentioned noticing that smirky smile that Tess does when the podsters are walking towards the jeep and Iz says something about maybe Liz is right.

She also looks back a little at Iz & Michael, once she & Max are walking away with her arm around his waist, and she's still smirking. It's as if she's gloating about his outburst at Iz followed by him breaking away from the other 2 and coming with her.

huggybehr ITA with every word. Proto-Ava and proto-Zan may have been married, but Tess and Max are two different people.

shapeshifter Glad you like the ideas about Tess bringing out Max's alien side. I'm going to elaborate on that later

K, I finally got to watch this again. A few times, b/c the first time was almost as emotional as the original viewing (aftereffects of DC, I think--it shows on Friday here). And I noticed a couple of things that I don't think anyone's brought up

--StarBox pointed out that after a friend's death was hardly the time to be decorating (though it appears Tess wasn't, she's just varying degrees of messy!). However, Michael has done some decorating. The window behind his couch, which has been covered by this purple tie-dye type sheet for as long as I can remember, is now covered with a matchstick blind just like the one over his patio door. I also don't recall seeing the shelving unit that's behind him when he's sitting on the coffee table, the one with all the little cubbyholes. Now, Michael may have decorated his place before Alex's death--we couldn't see anything in VLV when he went to the frdge after his nightmare, and we didn't really see anything in HTOHL either. It just struck me as odd that not only is Michael different these days, so is his apartment.

--Sean says to Liz (the second time she shows up), "Armoured truck heist?" Now, this is obviously meant as a joke here, but Liz has actually been an accomplice to an armoured truck heist, in Destiny--the one with Nasedo's body in it. I thought it was strange that he should mention the one crime (aside from B&E) that she has a real connection with.

--the florist's card and the envelope it's in have completely different writing. The card does look like it was written by a young woman, as someone pointed out, and the envelope has a more masculine writing. Also, on the envelope it's spelled properly: "The Whitmans" with no apostrophe.

--observatory scenes: Tess is wearing the same jacket, not all of the same clothes. In the first one she's wearing a pastel sweater, the same one she had on at school; in the second one she's wearing a pink button-down shirt. In the second, what she's carrying is a long jacket, looks kind of like a heavy trenchcoat, not a blanket or a sleeping bag (though the coat is pretty suspect too!).

--the whole Max/Michael park scene sends warning signals every time I see it. The blocking is truly strange. Michael comes out of nowhere with a whistle--have we ever heard him whistle before? They talk. Then, the first time Max turns to leave, Michael says something to make him turn around. They talk again, and Michael brushes past Max, going in the direction in which Max was originally headed. Max says something to make Michael turn around. They talk again. Now, Max brushes past Michael and continues in his original direction. Michael turns around and heads in the opposite direction. It's almost as if they're revolving around each other. The director of ITL&ITB was Patrick Norris, who's directed some of the best eps (ex. Destiny, HW), so this weirdness is definitely deliberate. Is it supposed to show that Max & Michael are switching roles? B/c right now that seems plausible; Michael is more like the real Max than Max is.

--The foot rub scene. In spite of the fact that Max doesn't seem to be aware that he's holding Tess' foot (or he's the worst masseuse I've ever seen ), I think this was the real Max. The way Tess smiles when she asks about the status of their relationship makes me think of how she thought that everyone would embrace their supposed destinies once they knew what they were. Then when Max says the idea of them together scares him, her smile fades. As Max continues to speak, Tess looks more and more thoughtful. Not upset; thoughtful. I'm wondering if when Max said, "Right or wrong I feel that if I follow that road I can never go back" he signed his own Tex warrant. Tess may have been inspired by those words, thinking that if she forcibly takes him down that road he will be bound to her permanently. The reason I think this is Max not SMax is that Tess needed to feel him out as to whether he was going along willingly, or if he needed more of a shove. She's judging the effectiveness of what she's already done and planning what she needs to do to finish the process. I also thought that Tess looked much older than usual in this scene. Generally, in spite of the makeup she's very fresh-faced, very much a teenaged girl (Emilie's not far out of teenagehood herself, so...). But here she looks different, harder.

--Maria's cardigan in the opening scene in Alex's room was full of diamonds. Also, the first shot of Valenti and Max was through Valenti's diamond-paned windows.

--Valenti is still treating Max as the leader by bringing him over to tell him what happened with Liz and Sean. In CYN, Max said to Liz that he'd "take care of it," meaning the situation with Valenti. In this ep, Max said to Valenti that he'd "take care of it" meaning the situation with Liz. Interesting that the people and their positions on Alex's death are reversed, but Max's words are identical.

--I believe it was Voyant who mentioned that Tess said "That's the reality; this, this is the dream," where "that" referred to the stars and "this" referred to Earth. She says this the first time they are in the observatory. The second time they're there, Max says he's ready to wake up after Tess takes his hand out of his pocket, and they cut to the dialogue-free part Then at the end, the camera focusses on M & T on the floor, then on the stars, in reverse order from the first trip. I agree that we're being shown that what's happening in the observatory is the dream. I also think that the V constellation is important in that it makes Max vulnerable to Tess' machinations. Last year, she was newly-arrived, Max was seriously involved with someone else, and no one fell in with destiny as she had expected them to. This year, Max is alone and confused, about as vulnerable as he could be, so she takes advantage of the situation to seize what she believes is her right and her destiny.

I'm starting to ramble now so I'll stop. I think that was about it for now, anyway!
~Tas

By shapeshifter
05-05-2001, 12:51 PM
Just realizing the true meaning of the end. Liz gets in the cab with the words that she is willing to give up her friendship with Max. From that point on, they both go irretrievably further apart (recall Max's words about not being able to go back) until Max cements (shudder ) with Tess at the very moment Liz realizes that she was wrong in her quest. This is truly tragic.

By Eraser Room
05-05-2001, 01:21 PM
Tas you explain this so well...

quote:Then, the first time Max turns to leave, Michael says something to make him turn around. They talk again, and Michael brushes past Max, going in the direction in which Max was originally headed. Max says something to make Michael turn around. They talk again. Now, Max brushes past Michael and continues in his original direction. Michael turns around and heads in the opposite direction. It's almost as if they're revolving around each other. The director of ITL&ITB was Patrick Norris, who's directed some of the best eps (ex. Destiny, HW), so this weirdness is definitely deliberate. Is it supposed to show that Max & Michael are switching roles? B/c right now that seems plausible; Michael is more like the real Max than Max is.

I totally agree. Notice that when Max is heading back in the "oposite direction" this is when he turns and says 'I just can't bear the idea that Alex died because we are here'. This sounds like the old Max. But in the end, he walks in the direction he was originally heading in.

This episode was full of beautiful symbolic gestures. I felt like I was watching a dance, where what everyone (especially Max) was doing was much more important than what they were saying. Has anyone tried watching the episode muted? I think I may do that just to see if any other actions or gestures become more clear.

By WR
05-05-2001, 02:28 PM
quote:Originally posted by redhawk:
WR's fanfic has a happy ending I'm sure, right WR?

Eventually.....

By Reggie
05-05-2001, 04:36 PM
quote:Originally posted by Tasyfa:
--I believe it was Voyant who mentioned that Tess said "That's the reality; this, this is the dream," where "that" referred to the stars and "this" referred to Earth. She says this the first time they are in the observatory. The second time they're there, Max says he's ready to wake up after Tess takes his hand out of his pocket, and they cut to the dialogue-free part Then at the end, the camera focusses on M & T on the floor, then on the stars, in reverse order from the first trip. I agree that we're being shown that what's happening in the observatory is the dream. I also think that the V constellation is important in that it makes Max vulnerable to Tess' machinations. Last year, she was newly-arrived, Max was seriously involved with someone else, and no one fell in with destiny as she had expected them to. This year, Max is alone and confused, about as vulnerable as he could be, so she takes advantage of the situation to seize what she believes is her right and her destiny.

I'm starting to ramble now so I'll stop. I think that was about it for now, anyway!
~Tas

Ah, but it was my observation that the V signalled the Alien Mating Season: a "power" big enough to manipulate Max again this year. All Tess has to do is "surf the wave"... and, of course, enjoy the ride. Liz was Max's gal last year, and had fun with him. Of course, not that much fun, but it's the same effect. She was close, though, last year when that darn orb interrupted...

By reveille
05-05-2001, 05:15 PM
Hi. I'm new. In Michigan they have this song called "Hail to the Victors." The word victor means "winner" and "conqueror." I don't think the guy in the flower shop was such a winner, but maybe his employer (Khivar) considers himself to be one?

By TVPooh
05-05-2001, 05:58 PM
hey all, found this on the AOL boards. I thought of you. Oh yeah, and my RBI work is never done-not even when i'm sleeping! Last night I had dreams about aliens and Max and Tess and she was NOT the true bride!

originally posted on AOL:
quote:
RDM (Ron Moore) has always been one to use references to other real events (Like the JFK parallel in "Ask Not"); making a reference to Crouching Tiger vs. Matrix or to things in literature. The Frost poem is probably going to be a big clue. Also, the Beth Orton concert & the song tie in with the episode name.

By GraceKel
05-05-2001, 07:03 PM
Tasyfa--I must tell you I hadn't thought of that scene between Max and Michael quite that way--I got caught up in Max being startled by whistling Michael jumping out at him---(Ed Harding whistled along right before he fried that FBI Special Unit guy) and him using those very similar words "what you want to be true with what really is true" but now that you have mentioned this switching of directions I will give it another look see.

By Tasyfa
05-05-2001, 08:42 PM
Grace I just found that park scene fascinating. I'm glad I could show you another way to look at it! I used to be in a theatre group and I took drama through most of high school, so I tend to pay attention to the blocking and in that scene it's just weird. I also have this feeling that something is going on with Michael, that he knows more than he's letting on, which may have contributed
~Tas

By taovande
05-05-2001, 08:58 PM
I'm glad I finally decided to read this thread....I'm amazed by everything that has been pointed out!

By Qfanny
05-05-2001, 09:03 PM
quote:Originally posted by shapeshifter:
Evid, Qfanny said that when she was at the shooting of CYN that they only had 2 NM license plates on the set and so had to keep recycling them (too bad Lonnie wasn't around ). So I am thinking that as much as I your Red Cab = Trip To Red Star idea, and I think it is a real possibility that they chose a Red Cab over a Checkered for this purpose, I doubt the numbers on the plate have any significance outside of the **Magic** of Roswell as we know it.

Yes, that's right. I actually do not know how many NM liscene plates they had, but I heard that the PA (Production Assistants) to move the plate from the front to the back when the camera angles changed. I know at one point where they had Bobs (there's two) and the Jetta parked I noticed that they were missing plates. At any rate, it wasn't enough. And what it did for me was give me a perspective of how much we see into things. I bet that the PTB are either scared of us, or they are in awe of us and what we pull into the storyline.

By MissLParker
05-05-2001, 09:49 PM
quote:Originally posted by Metaphysicalgrl:
Actually, I think the traingle in the middle is representative of the Granolith.

The reason why I think this, is that someone on another board, who used to work for the WB, let it slip that's what it was. I tried to get him to clarify what he said, but never was able to. However, after he said that, and looking at it...it does make some sense...

What do you guys think?

{~}:}

I think Max and Liz need to cement in the Granolith chamber.
I couldn't resist.

What do you guys think about the cement issue? FM said it made him and Liz inseperable. What will that mean for Max and T***? I will only except that there is some voodoo happening here. I guess I am old fashioned, but why would the writers build up a beautiful love story between Max and Liz only to turn Max into a DOG. (That bra removal scene is more than I can behr. )
Please speak peace to me.

By MissLParker
05-05-2001, 09:55 PM
I just had a thought I had to share before I forgot.

I was reading where you guys talked about how the aliens bring out the aliens in eachother.
What if the destiny book was like a journal of sorts. It explains what went happenned before and what went wrong. So if they could read it they would know what not to do?
yes, no, maybe?

By shapeshifter
05-05-2001, 10:05 PM
quote:Originally posted by MissLParker:
...What do you guys think about the cement issue? FM said it made him and Liz inseperable. What will that mean for Max and T***? ...(Yes MLPrkr, I thought about that too--and have decided until proven other wise that they left their pants on. Recall last season how Is thought she was pg from a dream. Of course Tess then told Max that they do it "in the usual way." But that doesn't mean she couldn't have pg symptoms and think she was mistaken.
I know, I'm in denial.
But evidently WB has cancelled Roswell, and I don't know if 10,000 bottles of Tabasco are going to make UPN pick it up. A lot would seemingly depend upon the commitment of the actors, writers, JK, etc.

Oh, and Tas & GK, I loved the choreography of the scene with Michael & Max bumping shoulders as they reversed directions--very symbolic of the changes in the characters.

By Nemo
05-05-2001, 10:25 PM
taovande, I'm glad to see you here. If you like this stuff, you might also like maxcedo's archive, if you haven't seen it already: http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/

reveille, I think you're right about Victor's Flowers. [BTW, I'm from Michigan too.]

Tasyfa, I appreciate your exploring the possibility that the weirdness in the park scene was meant to communicate something, and it's up to us to do our part to interpret it. Maybe M/M are exchanging roles as you suggested (my wife thought so too), or maybe this is symbolic of some other role reversal that has happened or is about to happen. Looking for these connections is more fun than just declaring a blooper (which takes much less effort and imagination).

By shapeshifter
05-06-2001, 12:31 AM
Last post :
So, going on our premise that Liz is Important, and thinking about FM's admonition that if an important, powerful ally leaves it could mean TEOTW, I would think the results of Liz's almost leaving (namely, Tex) could not be good. I know, this some sort of circular reasoning or logical fallacy that is not allowed in Logic 101, but I am sure it is perfectly permissable on this Thread.
gnite now

By SciFiMom
05-06-2001, 05:43 AM
Good Morning everyone

I just can't get the Tex scene out of my mind. Max behaved so differently than with Liz. Whenever he is with Tess he behaves so guilty. Everyone can tell he doesn't want to be with her...so WHY is he? Even the Tex scene made me feel he was screaming on the inside. I am certaint that there is something MORE going on. I think Tess has something to do with it, I am just not sure what. He is so UNlike Max around Tess.

Another thing bugging me is how in S1 the V constellation brought on dreams for the podsters, but only after Tess arrived. Before she came Max and Liz were drawn together, Tess disrupted what I feel was the true emotions behind the V constellation. We know Nacedo was watching them before Tess. So, why wait so long to bring her in? Was she busy with other business? Too much about Nacedo and tess doe not make sense. I must concur with all of you.

~Sheri
Sure hope you don't mind my ramblings this morning! I'm not even fully awake.

By MissLParker
05-06-2001, 11:21 AM
quote:Originally posted by Tasyfa:

totenhosen (sp? Sorry!) In VLV Max had a flash of the alternate future, could he have a flash of the baby's future from Tess' glowing tummy? Maybe that's why the baby seems so big in the flash he gets, b/c it's some kind of distress the baby will experience when it's close to being big enough to be born? I realize I'm reaching here!

I Shall Believe
~Tas

[/B]

Sorry, I am catching up and this made me think about the idea of the baby being a memory. This theory is maybe Tess is using past life memories to MW him. The glowing hand is a mindwarp of a actual memory. ::shrugs shoulders::
Otherwise where is she fitting that alien baby?

By zeroAutumn
05-06-2001, 12:21 PM
quote:Originally posted by MissLParker:
I think Max and Liz need to cement in the Granolith chamber.
I couldn't resist.

Nice Idea! I'd like that to happen, but on a larger scale, with the granolith in the center, the two lines around it could represent the aliens and the humans. This would mean that both the aliens and the humans are necessary to really be able to use the granolith.

Max and Liz cementing in the granolith chamber counts right?

They haven't really done much with the granolith lately. Considering how important they made it out to be at the beginning of the season, you'd think it would be at least mentioned a couple of times. What do you guys think, is that just because the writers got caught up in other things, or is it deliberate ...

z.a.
*Dreamer and part-time Candy Girl*

By Wishful Thinking
05-06-2001, 03:20 PM
Is it true? Has the WB actually cancelled Roswell? Why on Earth?!?

By volume0ne
05-06-2001, 04:25 PM
You guys are great. I love reading the clues you all find.

I was wondering if you ever discussed Alex calling Isabel "beguiling" in Heart of Mine. I thought to beguile meant to cheat. Not a very nice compliment if you ask me.

If I have the definition of beguiling wrong then just ignore the rest of this post and call me an idiot. But if I'm right, then maybe it could be a clue that Alex's body or whatever was taken over by Kihvar. So it would be like Kihvar calling Isabel a cheat because she was interested in Alex when she (Vilandra) is supposed to be with Kihvar.

I know this isn't exactly Liz Importance realated, but since Liz is trying to find out what happened to Alex I figured it wasn't too off topic.

Anyway, I'll go back to lurking now. Keep up the interesting clue finding!

By MissLParker
05-06-2001, 04:39 PM
Actually beguile means to entice.
But your post makes me think about Alex's change when he was with Leanna. When you think about their conversation in the Library where he tells her how she would treat him after the prom. What was it that Leanna did to make it so that Alex would feel the need to refuse her? It makes me wonder is Leanna implied a greater conflict with Isabel. Alex seemed brainwashed to me.

By TVPooh
05-06-2001, 06:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by Wishful Thinking:
Is it true? Has the WB actually cancelled Roswell? Why on Earth?!?

According to the article on crashdown it sure looks like it!! We'll have to read some good fanfics to keep us going all summer and HOPEFULLY the UPN will get smart and pick it up!

By belle_dreamer
05-06-2001, 06:27 PM
I like the theory about Liz being "the key". Sorry if this has been discussed before, I'm kinda new here, but has anyone ever read the lyrics to Sheryl Crow's I Shall Believe? I wouldn't be adressing this if I didn't believe this song to be important. (its the song from EOTHW and the song Maria sang in VLV and the Dreamer anthem) Maybe this song is a clue because the song does refer to a 'key' interms of Max and Liz.

Lyrics

Open the door
And show me your face tonight
I know it's true
No one heals me like you
And you hold the 'key'

Of course the healing part refers to the Max Liz healing thing that started all the things that lead to today. And you hold the key, that could be Liz. Any takers?

By redhawk
05-06-2001, 06:59 PM
Just trying out my new avatar. Hopefully it works.

Hi taovande!

By reveille
05-06-2001, 07:47 PM
Nemo, you posted an observation about the drawer handles on a recent thread, didn't you? I almost mentioned having seen a similar design on the sign behind Max and Michael in the conclusion of VLV. When Michael says "Whoever sent us here was smart" there's a sign with daily specials behind Max. At the top there's a design that looks like:

Ooo
-oo o

I think it's supposed to be fruit but the large O on the left almost looked like a woman resting her face on her hand (while leaning against the four o's). Maybe it's nothing, or the sign was shielding someone going through a quick costume change or something.

-edited because computer didn't make design look right.

By MissLParker
05-06-2001, 07:58 PM
Redhawk, very cool avatar.
I am so excited to get to 500 so I can get one, though I have no idea how to make one.

By MissLParker
05-06-2001, 08:05 PM
message deja vu

By haniczka
05-06-2001, 08:07 PM
Reveille, thank you for your earlier post. So flowers were sent from the Victors? Ha!

Redhawk, I can't even believe how awesome your new avatar looks. Hobbes is feeling a little outclassed... -HH

By haniczka
05-06-2001, 08:17 PM
oops.

By Eraser Room
05-06-2001, 11:22 PM
Totally OT, Redhawk great avatar!

I will now return to lurkdome. Great ideas everyone!

By MissLParker
05-06-2001, 11:38 PM
OT but, I can't wait to get to 500 posts. Does anyone have any suggestions for an avatar?

Someone said something earlier about Lonnie replacing Tess in MITC. Um I'd have to say that would be very icky considering the events of the last episode. :: Gets the willies like Liz after being kissed by Rath::

I really find the sex thing very upsetting because why did we spend a whole season focusing on M/L only to have Max give it up to someone he is indifferent to because.... well she is willing and he is depressed. What a waste! Whew! Now you can understand why it has to be a MW for me. Otherwise I don't think I can take it.
I really think that producing an heir is important because Tess has referred to sex as something inconsequential (Liz and Kyle). Why is sex the only option for exploring a relationship and why is the physical relationship progressing so fast for them?
I think the sex will only wake Max up to what an idiot he's being.
For once Alex's last words speak comfort to me. Why everything is a lie and why everything is so wrong.

By Nemo
05-06-2001, 11:47 PM
quote:Originally posted by StarBox:
The 4 instruments photo for the yearbook....any significance with this one???
There are THREE instruments positioned the same with ONE different....
For a long time the set decorators have been giving us variations on this theme: three of something, plus one more that's different: a little farther away, or pointing in some other direction. Sometimes the pattern is 4 + 1, or 1 + 3 + 1.
(maxcedo has several examples. http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/numbers.htm I'll re-use a few of those and add a few.)

Earlier I pointed out examples where Liz, or something of hers, seems to complete some set of four:
* Three-diamond tapestry at Evans house (RD) + diamond window at the café.
* Three framed pictures on Max's wall + Liz entering through the windowframe. (RD)
* Three cell-like pictures with oval centers in the sheriff's office (Pilot) + Liz's bookbag with oval label. [S2 note: those pictures are separated (into a pair and a lone one) by an electrical line running to a copy machine!]
(crashdown.com)

Now I wonder if another theme in the backgrounds relates Liz to these groups of 4 or 5. See what you think - maybe I'm overinterpreting, but often (it seems) one item out of these sets of 4 or 5 has something two-sided about it; this reminds me of Ava's conviction that since the healing there is something twofold about Liz's nature - she's now a human with something extra. So I am tempted to identify these twofold symbols with Liz. (Or, they could symbolize someone's duplicity? Why must things still be so ambiguous?)

One instance of this two-sidedness is in the picture that started this thread: three guitars upright plus one string bass lying down. The latter has the classic two f-holes. This combination echoes the first bandroom scene in the Pilot - the 3 timpani have one drumhead each (horizontal); the one bass drum (vertical) has two. The writers made sure we noticed those drums, by having Kyle play them. (They also had him mention his costume just then - did they want to make him symbolic of a shapeshifter tending some group of four?)

Look on the wall behind the display of Alex's instruments. There's a row of five symbols involving notes. (No staff - no pitches to read, not much musical meaning to extract - just notice the shapes.) The middle three notes are similar to each other - just individual 8th or 16th notes with the usual stems and flags. On the left is something different -- a pair of 8th notes flagged together. (Maybe Liz?) On the right is a whole note - the only shape that's hollow. (Could this be a symbolic comment on Tess's character, or am I being too harsh? I remember others pointing our that her picture alone of the four in the Destiny book appeared curiously lacking in depth or something....)

Maybe another example is that chest of drawers (in the foot-rub scene), with one drawer out of the four having two handles, the others one each.

Other examples mentioned earlier are:

* A four-drawer filing cabinet in the sheriff’s office (Pilot) that has an improvised extra drawer on top, consisting of two boxes. (Notice, at first we don’t get a good look at the fourth drawer of the cabinet, that one comes more into view later, like Tess.)

* That music stand next to Liz in the Pilot (bandroom scene with Alex), the only one in the room with a two-sided support structure.
(theDDD.com, via StarBox)


* The stripes on Michael's shirt here. One of the 5 gray stripes has two white center lines, the others (not all seen in this frame) have just one each.
(crashdown.com: from WAF; brightness/contrast adjusted)

* Liz standing in front of two notes of that A-flat scale in the Pilot. (This one is more conjectural - see what you think.)
(theDDD.com)


The scale is: Ab Bb C Db Eb F G Ab.
Four flats, three naturals. (Counting the last Ab as a duplicate of the first...)
Four aliens, three humans? (Liz, Maria, Alex – the 3 close friends in on the secret at first) The flats are only a half-step away from naturals, just as (Nasedo said) the aliens are only slightly modified humans.

The fourth flat in the key signature is Db. (i.e. that's the one you don't have when there are only 3 flats.) Liz stands in front of that fourth flat throughout the whole scene. But also (at least part of the time) in front of one of the naturals, the C. So maybe this was also supposed to be a clue about her nature and where she fits?

By Nemo
05-07-2001, 12:36 AM
Just for fun, here's the A-flat key signature, and another familiar symbol.

By Max-LizFanatic
05-07-2001, 02:57 AM
Just a quick hi to Metaphysicalgrl and the other Liz Mythers- I often lurk but I want to say thank you for all the theories AND I think they are right on target.

Very fascinating to read and you gals/guys catch ALOT of thing I have to go back and look for...lol

Liz is special no doubt about it

Nite nite!

By Alexis
05-07-2001, 06:45 AM
Quote by Evid
Tas & lil'sasha: I think what really bothers me about what Jason Katim's said was that he is telling the teen veiwers that in order to find you self you should have sex. This is morally the wrong message to send these highly influenced viewers, even if Max is part alien. I for one will stop watching JK's work if he continues with this way of thinking.

I agree. But from what I have seen of JK’s work (MSCL & some eps in Roswell) it seems he places a lot of importance on it, even if some characters don’t (Tess didn’t seem to think sex was such a big deal in Harvest when Liz told her about Kyle). I think that was done to show how shallow Tess’s feelings really are for Max and how deep Liz’s are for him. I really hope he doesn’t go down that road. I would be very disappointed.

I have to disagree with Reggie. They may have been married in a past life, but they aren’t married in this one. I know it and I know kids know it. Besides, Max and Tess didn’t even say they loved eachother. Tess brought a sleeping bag with her with the sole intention of that happening, even though she could see Max was having a tough time. That means she was taking advantage of the situation. Doesn’t sound like a good example of what real love is. Max (the real Max) and Liz show that all the time. That is what is so beautiful.

redhawk—I love “Anguish”. You are so talented! Thank you for posting it!

By elenac
05-07-2001, 06:52 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Reggie:
As for Max being "slow and gentle" with her, ROTFLMAO!
/QUOTE]

You have CAP a whole sentence!! ROTFLMAO???? I keep on skipping a lot a capitalizations. I'm not so good at rebuses.
Elena

By elenac
05-07-2001, 06:58 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tasyfa:
[
StarBox several people noticed that it was definitely a stage kiss (i.e., no tongue--which isn't usually the case with M&L ). A possible reason for this is if Max is being MW/MR /QUOTE]
Why real or stage kisses should've something to do with Max being MW/MR? I've always thought it was up to the actor's what to do. I've never been on a set so I don't know to which extent a director directs. Besides the other couples have each one their own behaviour on this matter and none thinks of MW/MR theories.
Elena

By elenac
05-07-2001, 07:10 AM
quote:Originally posted by Reggie:
Besides, they may not last. But would you want Liz to be a homewrecker? Better they get it out of their systems when she's clearly out of the picture.

I agree to the extent that Max's position on wanting Liz and not wanting Tess, has been very weak. He said a lot of nice things to Liz but did nothing really powerful to get her back. The love of his life walks away because of his destiny and leaves for three months and what does he do? Hangs on to Maria to have news of Liz? What about jump on an airplane and make sure your woman will be undoubtly yours and yours only and that nobody will be allowed to stand on the way?
Elena

By shapeshifter
05-07-2001, 07:13 AM
Looks like the Boards' server must have had a meltdown last night.

By haniczka
05-07-2001, 08:15 AM
Shapeshifter, yes, I think so.

I just had a strange idea. Remember in the beginning of Skin and Bones, Max was in counselling? The man had little siver wire-rim glasses and a grey paisley tie. He tells Max he's just experiencing "normal teenage stuff" and Max turns to the camera and spills all. Then he turns back to the psychologist and we get the impression nothing was really said. What if the psychologist is the (or one of the)
"watcher(s)?" He observes Max through the camera the same way our watcher has been looking. Maybe he really sees Max's thoughts; and, what a perfect opportunity for mind-warping, in a psychologists office...just a thought. -HH

By haniczka
05-07-2001, 08:16 AM
parallel posts for Nemo! -HH

By MissLParker
05-07-2001, 09:30 AM
Morning Mythers!
Hooray it is Monday!
The Florist note, it has two sets of handwriting. If it were an order placed by phone or Internet it would have been made out by the employee working there. They would not write down the contents of the note without labeling the envelope. (My friend worked in a flower shop) Now that we know that Alex wasn't in Sweden, it is conceivable that the person who ordered the flowers did it in person. Remember Liz assumed it was an international order and so she never asked questions about a local order. If it were local the florist shop would have more info on the person who placed the order.

I also watched SH last night, because "these are the times that try a [Roswell Fan's] soul. It is amazing how important Liz is. How the orb was calling to her. How she glowed when Max touched her. We saw no emotion in ITLITB compared to SH.

Maybe the evil within is what is growing inside of Tess? Hmmmm?

By Zero
05-07-2001, 12:07 PM
Hi All! -

Sorry I've been MIA recently! REAL life has kept me away - plus, I'm still trying to reconcile what my eyes and ears are receiving and what I'm hoping is really going on. (Plus, all the cancelation news is depressing! ) Anyway - I think I'd be a goner if I wasn't a part of the RBI! I'm dreading tonight, but will watch with my critical Myth eye well focused!

Now - I'm listening to Dido while working, and I thought I would post the lyrics to one of my favorite songs on the CD. It is the one that follows "Don't think of me" - the song that "It's to Late, and it's too Bad" was based on. The next song "My Lover's Gone" is, I believe, a song about sailors who leave and never come home, but it seemed to me - sitting here drafting an ordinance for a local municipality - that it fits what Liz must be feeling when she finds out that the aliens are leaving - at least the previews seem to indicate that they plan to leave to go "home." Anyway - it is a haunting melody - and I recommend it to anyone in a melanchonly mood.

"My Lover's Gone"

My lover's gone,
his boots no longer by my door,
he left at dawn,
and as i slept i felt him go,
returns no more,
I will not watch the ocean,
my lover's gone,
no earthly ships will ever bring him home again,
bring him home again,

My lover's gone,
I know that kiss will be my last,
no more his song,
the tune upon his lips has passed,
I sing alone,
while I watch the ocean,
[b]my lover's gone,
no earthly ships will ever bring him home again,
bring him home again.

Okay - back to work.

See you all tonight with my "gut/emotional" reaction!

BTW - When did Maria sing "I Shall Believe" in VLV??

Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz can find it!)

By Tasyfa
05-07-2001, 12:12 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenac:
Why real or stage kisses should've something to do with Max being MW/MR? I've always thought it was up to the actor's what to do. I've never been on a set so I don't know to which extent a director directs. Besides the other couples have each one their own behaviour on this matter and none thinks of MW/MR theories.
Elena

Hi, Elena, and welcome. With kissing scenes the amount of direction varies, from basically getting the actors to just go at it to quite precise directions. The better the director, the more direction, and ITL&ITB wsa done by Patrick Norris, who's directed some of the best eps of Roswell. As an example, the part where Tess takes off Max's shirt and they clasp hands overhead would have been very carefully coordinated. Max's left hand & Tess' right hand lower together, then Max runs his right hand down her left arm, then her left arm lowers so that her left hand is placed on top of Max's head. As StarBox pointed out with the screencaps, this looks an awful lot like how Nicholas placed his hand to mindrape. I don't think it's a coincedence.
Also, the first kiss, the one with the sudden, extreme closeup that almost gave me heart failure, is very strange. It's uncoordinated; their mouths are opening and closing at different times, and he's actually only kissing her top lip. For a guy that's known to pull on Liz's bottom lip, it looks way off, plus he looks very tense. I believe that it was shown so close up precisely to illustrate its strangeness.

And ROTFLMAO is an acronym for Rolling On The Floor Laughing My A** Off
~Tas

By StarBox
05-07-2001, 12:18 PM
Nemo - excellent post and observations!

Hang in there after tonights episode - I have a feeling that it is going to be really hard to watch - I have even heard suggestions that hard-core dreamers tape it and wait to watch it after Departure airs - but I think all of us RBI will be able to make it through by focusing on all the Liz myth stuff.
And remember - Max is not Max Max is not Max Max is not Max Max is not Max is not Max

This article was up at Crashdown - thought it might interest you all - it is from TV Guide.
Edited to remove article because I just realized it is slightly spoilerish about tonights eppy.

By huggybehr
05-07-2001, 12:26 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Zero:
I'm still trying to reconcile what my eyes and ears are receiving and what I'm hoping is really going on. (Plus, all the cancelation news is depressing! ) Anyway - I think I'd be a goner if I wasn't a part of the RBI! I'm dreading tonight, but will watch with my critical Myth eye well focused!

You and me both! It's taking a lot of effort not to hate Max Evans as presented on the show.

my lover's gone,
no earthly ships will ever bring him home again,
bring him home again,

Why are they doing this? Surely, there is no guarantee that they can survive in the atmosphere of the home planet?

BTW - When did Maria sing "I Shall Believe" in VLV??

I thought she only sang 'I've got it bad and that ain't good?', which is my problem with Roswell

By Zara
05-07-2001, 12:40 PM
Zero, Huggybehr, glad to hear from you. I'm depressed about Roswell too. I spent Saturday night and a bit of Sunday listening to Gomez and eating tabasco on my chicken! (My own personal rebellion...) I may hole myself up in the computer room with my Gomez, some tabasco and WR's fanfic until somebody gets us some redemption.

REDEMPTION is what SMax/MW/MR Max needs. I'm wondering lately if perhaps some form of redemption is the key to breaking the destiny loop. Max has definitely done something difficult to forgive...

Zara

By Rebecca
05-07-2001, 12:51 PM
In what we saw of the M/T sex scene, especially the hand/arms shot, I was interested to note that there was no glowing skin where they touched. In SH when Max ran his hand down Liz's arm we saw a glowing streak. Not with Tess. Of course in the BIY promo we do see a glowing belly on Tess.
I wonder what the glowing is. It's definitely contact related. Guess we'll never know.

By MissLParker
05-07-2001, 01:05 PM
Hi Rebecca nice to see you here.
The glowing thing on Tess is tummy is a baby's hand. It looks like Max is connecting with his child (or maybe he thinks he is (M/W)). Notice the importance of hands again.

By Rebecca
05-07-2001, 01:16 PM
It's a hand? Kewl! And Max is bonding with his unborn? Didn't look like a good experience from the promo. Max was totally freaked. Must've been a potent connection.
Oooo, I am so psyched for tonight. Max on meltdown. See him hit bottom. Oh and did I see Kyle? YES!

By StarBox
05-07-2001, 02:27 PM
Zero - I love "My Love Is Gone" - sometimes I wonder if the writers arent structuring Roswell around Dido's album. LOL!

Since we are sharing - here is the song that SHOULD have played during the TEX scene:
By Christine Kane (one of the BEST albums I own - and its privately produced - www.christinekane.com)
Where You Are

I'll find a way to confuse you
I'll find a way to get to your heart
I'll find the time to amuse you
If you find the time, I'll be in your arms

Blame it all on a crazy girl
And the eyes of a stolen heart
Take me take me where you are

I've got a room full of daydreams
I've got a shelf for a broken heart
I've got a script for a movie scene
I'll sit and wait for the show to start

Blame it all on a crazy girl
And I'll play that part
Take me take me where you are

There's a place for your memories
There's a place where it's always dark
There's a light up above me
Here's the chance to reveal your heart

Blame it all on a crazy girl
And she's falling hard
Take me take me where you are

You pretend it's a mystery
You can bet that it's clear to me
Now I'm ready so take me where you are

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

By MissLParker
05-07-2001, 02:31 PM
Oh Starbox that song is so perfect for that scene.

By Tasyfa
05-07-2001, 03:19 PM
Nemo SOme fascinating ideas!

StarBox Good call on the song Except, we all know that "I Will Love You" actually refers to Max and Liz I've watched this scene a number of times now, b/c when Liz answers her cell there's a few seconds where the frame of her is blended with a frame of Max & Tess kissing. I finally was able to hear which words were playing in the background, and they are: "Will you stay for all time?" It's quite deliberate, the blending lasts for exactly that line and then it's just Liz, saying that Alex never went to Sweden. Hence, she's not going anymore either. I thought it was interesting and very subtle. I the way they use music in this show, it's always incredible

Melodious If you're out there, thanks again for allowing me to use your fanart for my new avatar
~Tas

By WR
05-07-2001, 06:00 PM
quote:Originally posted by Zara:
I may hole myself up in the computer room with my Gomez, some tabasco and WR's fanfic until somebody gets us some redemption.

Why shucks, Glad to be of service
Hi Zara!

quote:Originally posted by Zara:
[B Max has definitely done something difficult to forgive...
[/B]

Hmmm... I find this statement interesting. Remember all that Max has gone through, with the FBI/WR, Liz's apparent abandonding of him, and the subsequent evasion/betrayal, the apparent betrayal by Michael and Isabel, the Skins invasion, etc. And he's what, 17? 18? I remember what condition I was in when I was dumped by a girl I was head over heels in love with when I was 18, and I'm not the leader of an alien race.

So I am not surprised by Max's condition, and the ease with which he can be manipulated. In his eyes, he has not done anything to Liz that she had not done to him. (Okay, I know, misguided thinking. Two wrongs do not make a right.)

WR
Stress Relief

By Zara
05-07-2001, 06:53 PM
Well, okay, WR, well taken. Perhaps my words were too strong.

If I may explain, Max and Liz appear to have done the same thing to one another, as far as Max knows. He found it hard to believe Liz slept with Kyle, but I think he's found it more difficult, near impossible, to forgive her for the distance she's placed between them. Where was the Liz Parker he loved? She's abandoned him.

Now Max has slept with Tess (or at least it appears). Why did he do that? Because he gave up? Because everyone had deserted him and he turned to Tess in loneliness and isolation? It's not so much the sex that's hard to forgive, it's his abandonment. Anyway, where is MAX EVANS?

Forgiveness and redemption can be pretty heavy-handed terms, and I'm sorry I used them; I simply mean that the characters need redemption in the broader sense of the word, like recovery, or, even better, rescue.

Zara

By Qfanny
05-07-2001, 08:11 PM
Congrats writers, I didn't think it was possible to witness a show worse than Toy House, but you manged quite nicely. The only character that I enjoyed watching was Kyle. Way to go Nick.

Zap! Great Idea!

By Crazy4Roswell16
05-07-2001, 08:19 PM
I can honestly say, that this eppy was THE WORST EPISODE THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN!!! BLECH BLECH!!

WHen T*** was laying in that bed, really sick I could only think "oh please let her die...let her die..PLEASE LET HER DIE!!" but alas, no death. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for next week though. Soon they'll show that it's a mindwarp and roswell will be happy again OMG that crystal, that's the crystal for time travel!! She found it!! What could Liz do with it!? Go to the future? see what happens with this whole T*** and the stupid baby? I bet it leads to the end of the world!! Ok what if they don't leave, the kid will die!! ANd maybe, just maybe T*** will die too!! I think I"m willing to take that risk.....

Ok I gotta cool off, go to bed and repost tomorrow....Bye all

~*~ DEATH TO T***~*~
~*~100% DREAMER~*~

By Metaphysicalgrl
05-07-2001, 10:00 PM
In an attempt to try and keep this post positive I will say that Departure better be one hell of an episode to clear up some of this mess, and I hope to god there is some follow up on the Jennifer/Alex thing, because before the pod squad take that translation as gospel, they should be asking some serious questions about it's validity. I mean, what was Alex doing at Las Cruces? Who is this Leanna/Jennifer chick? Why was there a bomb -- which was obviously alien in nature -- just hanging out there waiting for them to find it. And the crystal, which we know is probably the one we saw Max jam into the Granolith in EOTW just waiting there for them to find. Hmmmmm. A little too convenient, don't you think? Unfortunately, Off the menu is next, so we can expect more storyline discontinuity and I can't see how they can answer any of these questions in an episode that was supposed to air before.

That leaves just Departure to wrap it all up for us. Now, like I said that has to be one hell of an episode to deal with everything that should be dealt with in that episode.

1. The podsquad prepare to go home and possibly go home?
2. Find the answers to all of the questions mentioned above before blindly accepting the translation as truth...figure out who Leanna is and deal with why Alex was at Las Cruces and that whole mystery.
3. If number one happens, there will have to be the wrapping up of relationships -- goodbyes and whatnot.
4. Figure out the whole Tess/baby thing was a mindwarp (if that's true) and find out why.
5. Witness Sheriff Valenti ripping Max a new a-hole for bringing Tess home in the morning. (now that's a scene I don't want to see on the cutting room floor!)

Egads. I can't even think of it all right now. It just seems to me that we are going to lose the momentum that has been building up by the airing of OTM next week. The only thing I can think of that will make that situation allright is if they had filmed more than one hour's worth of show for departure, and they edit that stuff into the flashbacks of what happened in OTM. However, judging from the previews tonight that doesn't look like it's going to happen.

With talks of cancellation on the horizon, I am horribly disappointed that with two episodes left we are seeing Max and Tess deal with their 'Destiny'....doesn't seem like there's much hope that we'll finally see Max and Liz get together. Even if we find out that Liz plays a bigger role in the whole mythology of the aliens -- there's not going to be much in the way of enjoying it.

Anyhow, as this post is taking the inevitable turn towards the negative, I'll stop myself now.

JB did a phenomenal job, I will say that. However, it bothered me to see Max being so tender and loving towards Tess -- no evidence of a real mindwarp there!

Like I said, Destiny has gotta be one hell of an episode for them to finish this storyline arc, and possibly the series as well. I did manage to make some random observations, so I figured this was the place to post them. Sorry if these have been mentioned already but I haven't had time yet to read the other posts regarding "Maybe it's Doo Doo" (my new name for BIY)....

- The bomb was the same shape as the Granolith. Triangles, diamonds and pyramids oh my! Our favorite shapes. Also, when it exploded there was an atom shaped design after the fireball. Did anyone see it? I couldn't decide if it was atom shaped or one of the alien symbols...need to watch it again, and Gracekel it!!
- Now the podsters have to admit that Alex's death was alien in nature. About friggin' time!
- When Isabelle made it snow. This was very symbolic of ARCC when Max grabbed Liz's hand and said I believe in you. Coincidence that the snow started just as Michael drove up and told them he had been helping Liz and Maria with the investigation and was glad he did? I think not.
- When Max first looks at Tess in the conservatory when they are waking up from "the hot alien sex" the music in the background says...."I look to you and I see nothing." That's what I was thinking too. My eyes!! My eyes!!
- Chess club sign was in the background again as Tess/Max walk down the school hall hand in hand. Coincidence? I think not!
- Isabelle brought Kyle into her dreamwalk. Do you think they're gonna expand on Kyle's powers or just leave it at that, like they did with Liz. Just out of curiousity, why was the Playmate of the year sleeping in the middle of the day? They obviously sleepwalked her dream (liked the chocolate cake dangling in mid-air in front of her exercise bike) -- inquiring minds want to know.
- Quantum computers and Quantum mechanics oh my. (remember when FM talked to Liz about Serena, the crystal and quantum mechanics). What are they trying to tell us? Hmmmmmm. Could it be a 'clue'?
- "Max, this isn't the time to feel you pulling away from me". - Tess. It was very obvious that Tess was using the baby thing to manipulate Max everytime he seemed to have doubts or wander away from her. It's also obvious that Tess wants to go home immediately, as evidenced by her sudden collapse in the kitchen right after Max tells her they should get a place together. So I guess, Tess turns out to be evil after all. What clever writing!! NOT
- "You got Tess pregnant? Holy crap." - Michael. I just really liked this line so I thought I would add it to my observations list. I shall entitle this observation, "Michael speaks for Roswell fans everywhere".
- Ray? Thai food for breakfast, lunch and dinner? He doesn't acknowledge his roomate the one time that roomate saw Alex/Ray outside of the room? Why? Does this mean that Alex was posessed during the days and at night, when he wasn't posessed he went to the computer lab to decode the Destiny book? Um...would a posessed person not have memories of people he met when posessed? Yeah...they really need to explain this storyline in some more detail, because right now it is just making no sense.
- The fetus looked human. Really nothing more I can say about this because we've already pretty much discussed how ridiculous this is on this thread already. Nuff said.
- Convenient that the translation of the destiny book is directions on how to get home. Can we all say together now, "Holy Setup Batman!". Why should they trust that this information is correct?
- Why was Liz questioning Tess about her mindwarp powers? Hmmmmm.. What's our girl Liz onto? I find that very curious. She's definitely onto something that hasn't been revealed to us yet. Interesting....
- Kyle suggesting that he and Isabelle should make Max wake up with only one testacle. Funny, I thought Max had already lost his balls!

So, those are my observations. Like I said before, Departure has got to be one hell of an episode to lead us to a "culmination" of this storyline that leaves me with an electric feeling surging through my body that lasts an hour.

{~}:}

By 4everyoung
05-07-2001, 10:29 PM
It was very difficult to watch this ep. I was so disappointed.

Metaphysicalgrl - I noticed the way that the bomb exploded and I want to veiw that a few more times. it really was strange.

The one thing that jumped out at me was when Max connected with the baby after Tess collapsed - he said the baby was dying because the Earth's atmosphere was poisoning him. That is what Whittaker said about why the 'Skin's' had to wear the husks. If Max and Tess are both hybrid's, why wouldn't the baby be a hybrid?

Max never has told Tess that he loves her. Even in his speech about how he thought he lost her, he still didn't sound as if he had convinced himself of anything. Only that he was sorry that he had taken her for granted about the destiny thing. When he is talking to Iz, he still sounds as if he is trying to convince himself that he believes that this is his destiny.

I am just so upset about the whole thing, I have to try to keep an open mind, but it's really hard to see now.

By brainchick
05-07-2001, 10:38 PM
Can I just say AAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm dying here. I BELIEVE THE DREAM! I usually have two buds that I chat with on the phone during and after the episode and neither of them was home tonight, so I had no one to talk to.

I don't believe the Tex/baby situation for a second. She is a manipulator, pure and simple. She has got to be evil after all the creepy stuff in ITK&ITB.

Max never looks happy about the state of their affairs and she is grasping at everything she can to make him stay anyway. I still think that even if the baby is true, the only reason why the atmosphere is poisoning him, is because it's Nicholas's baby (a skin)!

That's my story and I'm stiking to it. You can't convince me for a second that Max doesn't love Liz. The only reason why he is so angry with her is because he feel betrayed by the one person he never expected to turn away from him. He has always believed that Liz was his destiny and they would make their way back to each other. He won't be the Max that we know and love, with those beautiful smiling eyes (thanks for reminding me Craig why I found him so irresistable) until he has her in his arms and is centered by the truth that she possesses. Liz is never wrong. She found a way to prove that Alex's death was alien related she'll find a way to bring our Max back to us. Oh, and when Liz proves the is evil, I hope she tramples her with an awesome display of her own new found powers. That would work just fine for me.

As far as I'm concerned this show proved it, Max lives up to his responsibilities, but he does not love the and never will. It ain't gonna happen. Even the "I've taken your for granted" deal had no passion. If Max was the kind of guy who would have no concern for the woman he "thinks" is carring his child, no of us would have ever loved him the way we do. Now that we know the true nature of Max's feeling for the she can just crawl away somewhere and die now. Over! Done! Gone!

By the was is she turns out to be the pawn in some other evil doer's plan then I'll take back the crawl away and die comment, but not anything else.

I need Max and Liz, NOW! Please hurry! Two weeks seems like forever.

Ok, deep breathes, in and out. Sorry for unloading, I just found myself needing to vent. I feel much better now.

By StarBox
05-07-2001, 10:41 PM
Well - I had read the synopsis of BIY on Saturday and was REALLY dreading the episode. I mean - really, really dreading it.
It was not as bad as I expected it to be. The whole episode was just really strange.
I walked in towards the end and watched the last 6 minutes or so first - then watched the whole tape - and one thing that just really jumped out at me was how WEIRD the last scene is. The whole thing is just very, very "off". Isabel is extremely off. Michael is extremely off. The lighting is off. The snow is weird, the setting is weird. It has a dream sequence look and feel to it. Rewatch the dream segments in the beginning of TSAP and then the last scene of BIY. I would put money on that entire scene being a dreamwalk.

Okay - looking back at my notes.

The baby. Folks - that baby is SO fake. The glowing handprint was way too big for such a flat little Tess-tummy (unless alien babies gestate in an alter-dimension). Tess's reaction to being pregnant - totally off. Here is the deal - and I am sure that every female on this list can back me up. When you find out you are pregnant - it ALL magically becomes about the baby. I mean - that baby is EVERYTHING. It is all you can think about - all you care about. Tess never seemed concerned about the baby. She should have had some serious freak-outs over the fact that her baby might be dying - but what does she do - she goes to SLEEP. And then when she wakes up she is all "oh Max - I have faith in you, blah. blah" - nothing about the baby at all. Nope. She isnt concerned about the baby - because there is no baby. Her reactions were just all off and weird.
Also - the way it flows - Max says they arent going home right now - and then the baby is sick and the atmosphere is poisoning it - oops - they have to go home.
Oh - and did we mention that in between NOT telling them how to translate the destiny book, NOT telling them how to get home, NOT telling them about Khivar, or the dupes, or Vilondra - Nasedo DID manage to say that an alien pregnancy takes four weeks??????????????
So lets see - according to Tess - "destiny" is that they mate and make little alien babies but OOPS! she forgot to mention that the alien babies gestate in four weeks and cant survive on the planet earth. Not a great "destiny" plan. What was mom thinking?????? Oh wait - maybe Tess is just MAKING IT ALL UP........

Which brings us to.................Leanna and the way its all fitting together.
Leanna = Lonnie - I am so sure of it. Lonnie told Nikolas she had cards she wasnt showing and could get home with or without him. At this point - ALEX WAS ALREADY IN "SWEDEN" - ALEX was her "card"!!!!!!! He was in Las Cruces - in robot-mindwarp mode - translating the destiny book.
Tess gets Max to believe he has to go home - that he has to "translate" the destiny book - all the time she (and Lonnie) know that they HAVE THE TRANSLATION.

Other things:
Max's description of tex - a floating feeling and a hot electric feeling - seems to me it could be describing what if feels like to be mindraped/mindwarped.

Micheal seemed off the whole episode. I totally think he was a shapeshifter - maybe Tic-Tac :-) - he seemed to really be protecting the humans and he seemed to know alot more than he let on - also the way he "appeared" just as Leanna "disappeared" on the bus........like he was watching the whole time................

The pyramid thingy in the abandoned house Leanna was renting - it looked like the UFL logo at silverhandprint.com

Also - the abandoned house - could that be the location of the second "blip" Brody mentioned in MTD - the one that appeared "near Roswell" at the same time the NYC blip went off.........................................

Tess is shown standing next to a sign that says "Is This You?" - reminds me of the sign next to the dupes in the UFO center "Who Are They?"

Tess talked on silverhandprint.com about how strong her powers were getting - Isabel's powers seem to be getting REALLY strong too - she knocks people across the room with the flick of her hand - or makes it snow - the way she is using the powers - the types of powers she has - they just seem really different than what we have seen before.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

By brainchick
05-07-2001, 11:40 PM
Hello??! Were did everyone go? You all must be off rewatching the show, taking notes and theorizing. I can't find all the mythers.
The Tex/baby thing is soooo fake, that if you doubt it, get to a neurologist now, because you must have a head injury. Do we have a doctor in the house?
Help I'm drowning in a lying sea of jello.

By shapeshifter
05-07-2001, 11:42 PM
quote:Originally posted by Metaphysicalgrl:
...- "You got Tess pregnant? Holy crap." - Michael. I just really liked this line so I thought I would add it to my observations list. I shall entitle this observation, "Michael speaks for Roswell fans everywhere".
...Can we all say together now, "Holy Setup Batman!"...Meta, best post ever--must be the adrenalin. And yours too, Starbox.

Okay, we don't like it. As the mom in the Cat-In-The-Hat said, "No, I do not like it, no, not one little bit." The situation, that is. But I don't dislike the show or the script. As Brainchick said, our Max whom we've all grown to love and respect (the honorable guy), is not going to flake on Tess after he got her pregnant. And yes, Tess had an agenda, but that's not really any different than a very large percentage of the teen women in the world. And Liz was so totally cool. And correct. And Michael, I agree with Nicholas, I hope Michael's team wins.

By brainchick
05-07-2001, 11:50 PM
I'm sad because I don't think they will answer a single question about all the stuff that came up in BIY next week. Don't suppose there is any chance that they re-editted or otherwise modified OTM once they changed it's order in the line up? God, I hope so cause this a be LONG two weeks waiting to get answers if they didn't. What you guys think?

By brainchick
05-07-2001, 11:53 PM
Oh, by the way I'm still getting my sea legs as it regards FF. I've caught a lot of the lingo but LOL and RBI are lost on me. Can anyone help?

By brainchick
05-07-2001, 11:55 PM
Yes I realize I've been here alot tonight, But, OMG!!! Look at that I just got a second star. I'm not in training anymore. Is that anything like "We're not in Kansas anymore"?

By sunrise
05-08-2001, 12:03 AM
I'm so and !!

Just one question:

IF an alien pregnancy lasts 1 month, how long does an alien hybrid last? The pod squad are not full aliens, they are half human and therefore wouldn't a pregnancy for them last between 1-9 months? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. And I'm sure that some of yous are making caps of the traslation of the D-day book, so i'll wait patiently to see what they say.

Was I the only one hoping that when Mike was saying his two things on the Alex/mystery thing one of them would be "And Liz was correct!" How typical to not give credit to those who deserve it!

Roxy

By shaiwon72
05-08-2001, 12:05 AM
after watching this eppy, i didn't know if i was sick from the forced lovey dovey stuff from max and tess or be interested in the whys about the translation.

how did alex get the book? where did the crystal come from? why leanne/jennifer and what's her role? who would have access to the advanced alien bomb?

i think that maybe leanne/jennifer is maybe serena. ok.. how alex got the book, i don't know. didn't lonnie or rath say something about a book? did they also have one for themselves? and where did that crystal come from? who has had it all this time? what if serena had the crystal all along? it could explain how she modifies the granolith for time travel.... but that wouldn't be for several more years. in order for the granolith to be modified, she should know all about the aliens and the granolith... thus the book. how else to decipher it w/o the help of a computer whiz and friend of the aliens (alex)? so... she could have befriended alex. help decipher the book. hold onto the crystal and thus make any future modifications.

at least that's what i think.

By Zero
05-08-2001, 12:06 AM
Good Evening!

(okay - sorry, but that was my initial reaction to tonights episode!)

The best line belonged to Tess at the end of the teaser: "OH MY GOD!"

I know you all keep telling me this has to be a mindwarp, but if so - that is ONE H#@! of a mindwarp! And no way could Tess be behind it all since her reaction at the end of the teaser was done in private!

If it wasn't for the Liz/Maria investigation team, I would have turned off the TV. Max did not come across sympathetic at all - just pathetic! "Opps - lost my mind, screwed around, got her pregnant, and now Rosemary's baby (for those who don't remember or know about this movie - the Devil impregnants a Mia Farrow) is growing in Tess!" The only time I truly felt he was NOT himself was when he attacked Liz at the Valentis'. Very odd behavior there - but the rest was odd, but not out of the range of norm for a guy who did a REAL STUPID thing - like have Tex!

My husband laughed at the computer scene when they show binary bits running down the computer screen - it was the Matrix screen saver! I truly hope Alex/Ray wasn't trying to decode that - no wonder it took so long. But then again - with My RBI Hat on - it is a clue to the virtual reality that MAYBE Max is existing in right now!

I do not know how anyone who doesn't watch with our critical investigative eye - and is even slightly a Dreamer - could stand to watch this show right now. I keep praying they will pull it out, but I'm beginning to have doubts. Liz and Maria had hardly any screen time today - and next week is a episode out of order (unless they somehow save it) - SO all this is going to be wrapped up in an hour. I guess so, but I doubt I will be satisfied.

There is no way they are going to be able to solve the mystery and redeem the Max/Liz relationship in an hour! I'm so sad right now at the corner that they have painted themselves in - with the potential that there won't be a 3rd season to delve deeply into that relationship and the connection! SO FRUSTRATED RIGHT NOW - CAN YOU TELL!!!

Okay - enough Ranting! ing one last time.

Sorry - I will rewatch with my critical eye in tack. I better go read what others have to say, because I'm useless right now!

Zero
I don't know if I believe anymore!

By shapeshifter
05-08-2001, 12:06 AM
quote:Originally posted by brainchick:
Oh, by the way I'm still getting my sea legs as it regards FF. I've caught a lot of the lingo but LOL and RBI are lost on me. Can anyone help?

I'm here!
LOL = Laughing Out Loud
RBI = Roswell Bureau of Investigation
ITA = I totally agree

And now I will leave with this, posted by HolndPark on another thread, it's part of the Destiny Book Translation (which I think Reggie has caps for? And will email me at work tomorrow [same as home]): quote:You are the royal four. Zan, the king, Ava his queen, Vilandra his sister, Rath his counselor. You were created from the genetic material of your alien predecessors and human subjects. You were given human form so that you could live safely on the planet undetected until the time come for your return. You have been given the granolith, a transport between this planet and Antar. You have also been given the communications
technology which will allow you to access information from your true home. The chamber containing your hybernation pods and the granolith has been hidden away from human settlement. It can only be accessed by the four of you. You have been provided with a guardian who will protect you from danger and keep you hidden from your enemies, both human and Antarian.

Then it goes on for a few paragraphs about abductions.

By GraceKel
05-08-2001, 12:19 AM
Hey Nemo great post earlier--I knew there was something about those instruments!!!!

Hey did anyone catch this---Alex was at UNM--who else was attending UNM---DOUG SHELLOW--studying archeology and ancient languages remember?

Zero--Tess being alone and saying OH MY GOD could have been--hey NOW I CAN PRETEND I AM PREGGERS???????????/

By Zero
05-08-2001, 12:25 AM
Oh - two more things that I just have to post before I forget!

If the line "what's up" was used one more time with respect to Max and Tess I was going to scream! I kept getting this obscene picture in my mind which I can NOT describe on a G rated board!

Finally, I can't believe they said "the baby is being killed by the atmosphere"! Someone must have skipped their "human development" class! The atmosphere isn't touching the fetus! If it is being poisoned - then it is because the woman that is carrying it is POISON! The only connection that fetus has with the outside world is through it's mother - Tess!

Okay - now I can go read!
Zero

By shaiwon72
05-08-2001, 12:36 AM
oh... when max was in his warped state and verbally attacking liz, wasn't it odd that when max asked where tess was when alex died, kyle said she was w/ him watching gladiator. why would they accept that answer when all of them were at the crashdown looking at prom pictures and stuff. liz could have rebuked that but i guess being hurt after max pooped on her, i don't blame her for leaving.

By MissLParker
05-08-2001, 01:15 AM
I can't say that this episode disappointed me. Yes there were disappointing parts but there also were so good moments. My anxiety is growing because there are still more questions and little time left for answers.

My sis-in-law (MissMDeluca) and I watched it again tonight and we came up with some interesting theories.
So here we go.
First, and i have to give the credit to MissMDeluca, the alien bomb. Her thought was that it was placed there to kill anyone who couldn't move it. So it was meant for the aliens to find.
Leanna, friend or foe? I am not sure but I find it very curious that in TEOTW we find out that one other person will know the secrets of the granolith and be able to alter it's powers. Serena. Then we meet a female who is not who she says she and she is has the crystal that activates the granolith. Maybe FM was saying that she would be a firend because she too would travel through time to help like FM did, but just a little later in the future. Maybe Leanna is Serena.
Maybe Alex was killed because he had the right translation and that would thwart someone else's plan.
Is the baby fake, maybe. I do think that it can't live on earth makes no sense. I definately think that it is a ploy to go home.
When Liz comes to see Tess. I LOVED that scene and here is why. Liz IMO is asking Tess about mindwarping because she wan't to find out if it's possible that Alex was manipulated into believing he was in Sweden, but she never is able to explain this. Instead Max interups and accusses Tess of being the object of her inquery. Tess defends Liz for the first time since Alex died. WHY? I think because Max was the closest he has been to the truth in a long time. Then I loved how much Liz got to Max and how he reacted when she left. I thought it must burn Tess up to think that Liz still has that much of a hold on him. In reality I think that scene was foreshadwing that Tess is using her mind powers some how and that Tess could be involved in Alex murder too.
Michael's "Holy Crap" line made
Kyle was very funny.
I thought that Tess's facial expressions were once again very strange.
I was mad at two things this epi. The first and last scene. The whole Morning After made me want to gag and the last scene gave little credit to Liz and Maria and the humans being right about Alex.
After our discussion tonight we came up that Tess is a dupe. The definition of dupe further illustrates their purpose.
She wants to go home and she is the only podster who does. The dupes want to go home. Ava is nothing like the dupes and Tess is not much like the podsters.The writers made a point by showing that to us. You can say it was Nacedo but notice how Ava acts and she has not had a real protector. I wonder if Leanna is the other protecter?
The snow at the end? What did Isabelle's conversation with Max mean? What did the snow symbolize?
Love the Season one flashbacks and the native american reference.

Anyway I am getting sleepy, so talk to you all later.

By CharmedKitten
05-08-2001, 01:36 AM
Starbox--Where did you get the Kane cd? I thought it wasn't out yet and I'm often at the website. Let me know, k?

By huggybehr
05-08-2001, 02:09 AM
quote:Originally posted by Qfanny:
Congrats writers, I didn't think it was possible to witness a show worse than Toy House, but you manged quite nicely.

It's all down to personal taste, but I actually thought Toyhouse was a great episode.

Re Baby it's a soap opera, even though I could watch this episode now, I will not. It seems that Atherton was right, aliens do lack the brain capacity for more than short term survival on Earth. I have said it before and I'll say it again. If the baby cannot survive on Earth, how do the pod squad expect to survive on the home planet? Have they also forgotten that Khivar is in charge back home and is hardly likely to welcome them with open arms?

The abject stupidity of this whole storyline never ceases to amaze me and I am fed up of grasping at straws to try to explain away this mess.

Sorry for the rant, I used to love this show but ITL&ITB just about says it all.

By StarBox
05-08-2001, 06:33 AM
Re: How did Alex get the destiny book??? Good question. I'd say Tess has to be working with "Leanna".
How screwed with is Max's mind??? Go back to the podchamber scene (where he sees the glowing tummy) - I am thinking the whole thing could be a warp - remember how Max takes down the destiny book and then EXPLAINS TO TESS WHAT IT IS???? "This is everything we have from our home planet - maybe it has the answers" - HELLO - she GAVE you the book. She even claimed to understand its contents last season.
Also - Leanna knew what Liz and Maria looked like. AND - where did Leanna go????

Anyway - woke up this morning with gladiator on my mind and I am thinking - what if we have ALL been wrong this entire time. What if Max was NEVER king at all - what if Khivar IS the heir.
Think about the movie Gladiator.
A king - realizing that the political system is terribly corrupt - chooses to pass the throne to his beloved military leader - (named - MAXimus) instead of his son. The son finds out and has him killed - but Maximus manages to escape and starts a new life as a gladiator with a new identity.

Now - look at the momoogram:
WOMAN: If you are seeing me now, it means that you are alive and well. I take this form because it will be familiar to you, and it will help you to understand what I am about to say. You have lived before. You perished in the conflict that enslaves our planet but your essence was duplicated, cloned, and mixed with human genetic materials so that you might be recreated into human beings. My son, you were the beloved leader of our people. I have sent with you your young bride. My daughter, the man you were betrothed to, and your brother's second-in-command.
WOMAN: Our enemies have come to the Earth. You will know them only by the evil within. Learn enough to use your skills, your knowledge, your leadership to combat the enemy so that you can come back and free us. And that I may once again hold you both in my arms. I live for that moment. Help us. I love you.

Mom NEVER says Max was a royal. He was the beloved LEADER. It is Nasedo and Tess and the skins that have propogated the "royalty" myth.

Now - MAXimus is also betrayed by the kings sister - who he had a childhood attraction with (although she is not his beloved wife - who has also been killed along with his son)
The kings sister is going to help MAXimus but ends up betraying him - after her brother (the king) blackmails her.

Look again at the mom-o-gram - she clearly tells Max that he must defeat the enemy BEFORE he returns home. The goal is not to come home.
It would make no sense to send the podsters with the idea that as soon as they hit puberty they would mate and make alien babies and would have to rush home to save the little green monsters. Why send them at all??? They are just going to return home to get killed again. Nope - their mandate is to DEFEAT the enemy and THEN return home.
Going home before they have learned to use their powers, knowledge and skill to defeat the enemy is simply walking into a trap - or as Khivar said "a public execution".

Zero - in the script - it actually NEVER says that Tess is pregnant. In the mirror scene it says she looks at herself and "the realization" hits her "Oh my God". "The realization" is not clarified - it COULD be the realization that she can trick Max into believing an alien pregnancy story. I mean - last season they were ready to believe isabel got pregnant from a DREAM - clearly M/M/I are very gullible when it comes to alien spawn.

Re: the Chrsitine kane CD - it is avaliable - you can get it from her website (www.christinekane.com) - the album that song is on is "Same Time Next Year".

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

By zeroAutumn
05-08-2001, 06:54 AM
Hey fellow RBIers.

First off I'd like to say that I actually liked this episode. Maybe that's because after the first three seconds I promptly put on my RBI hat and looked for clues.

And here's what I found.

When Max and Tess wake up and he hugs her ( ::shiver:: ) look as his facial expression. Tess can't see him, but he looks, broken almost. It's not the face of a guy who just had sex with the woman he loves.
And Max is a stand up guy. I think if he even thought he loved Tess he would tell her so. But he doesn't.

The scene that I keep coming back to and thinking of is the Liz/Tess/Max scene. How about this:

Liz asks about Tess's powers of 'mind control'. Ever since Tess showed up they've called it 'mind warp'. I can't remember a single instance when they called it mind control. A clue?

Someone already pointed this out, but I'll say it again. Why would Kyle say he and Tess were watching Gladiator when Alex was killed - they weren't. Everyone was at the Crashdown together.

I keep wondering why Liz wanted to ask Tess about her powers at all. While it could have something to do with the investigation into Alex's death, she never mentioned it before or after. And if she thought it did have to do with it, who else do we know that can mindwarp (mindcontrol)?

The tension between Max and Liz was incredible. Even though they're fighting, I think their scenes together are the best evidence for them getting back together. With Tess, he's so, not indifferent to her, but his emotions are always subdued about her. The fact that merely seeing Liz can make him boil over is amazing.
And he noticed that Liz and Maria weren't in school. That means that he's still actively looking out for them, noticing where they are. That has to be more than just wanting to keep an eye on the investigation.

Hmm ... I loved Michael. I wasn't surprised at all when he showed up at the university. When Maria left after talking to him and telling him where they were going I said to my sister, "He's going to follow them." I would have liked to see him give Liz and Maria more credit for finding the translations, but he did say that it was because he was helping them that he had them. They'll have plenty of time to explain what happened later. (Remember how much offscreen stuff goes on.)

Arg this is getting long ... more later though!

z.a.
*Dreamer and part-time Candy Girl*

By Wishful Thinking
05-08-2001, 08:59 AM
Starbox: ITA with your posts on BIY!

quote:posted by Starbox,
Micheal seemed off the whole episode. I totally think he was a shapeshifter - maybe Tic-Tac :-) - he seemed to really be protecting the humans and he seemed to know alot more than he let on - also the way he "appeared" just as Leanna "disappeared" on the bus........like he was watching the whole time................

I thought this too... the scene in the abandonned building & the alien bomb: after the bomb explodes Michael has a strange look on his face, a recognition that he didn't set it off but Liz did (a sign to him of her true identity?). Then he covers it up by saying "it's something I've never seen before"-- well DUH!? Michael doesn't exactly hang out with alien weapons & explosives experts in between classes at Roswell High, does he?

I agree with my fellow RBIers that said the end scene with Iz, Max, then Michael was off. Iz comes across her brother who is in the middle of having a meltdown & makes it snow (in what looks like a very warm/hot spring/summer eve.)?! ::a special news bullitin from NBC: meteroligists across the country confirm there were absolutely no clouds in the sky last night in the Roswell area, despite the freak snow storm. Scientists are at a loss to explain this strange phenomenon...:: (meanwhile the Podsters' enemies all wave their hands frantically, shouting 'I know where they are!')

Other things I noticed while watching last nights ep:

Alex's memorial picture in the football field... when they first showed it, I thought 'hmm, a real picture of Alex' (ie. not one from Sweden). Then i noticed the DIAMOND pattern across his face, made by the fence... the next shot with a rail from the bleachers crosses the pic. I had a strange realization: In both shots the "real" Alex is caged & barred.

Tess's comment to Max after waking up from her collapse in the kitchen sounded like she was engaging in everyday small talk. Uh, hello?!? Your supposed unborn baby is dying and from the looks of it your being taken down too & the first thing you say is "Hey what's up?" to Max? WTH?

Max's meldown at the trashcans... he tells Iz he's feeling irresponsible and stupid. I thought: why yes Max, yes you are

Kyle was funny in this ep & Michael's reply to Max's statement of "there were complications", "What? Alien herpes?" had me LMAO!

By Melodious1
05-08-2001, 09:11 AM
quote:Originally posted by MissLParker:
The snow at the end?

I might be alone in this theory, but when I first heard Isabel was going to make it "snow" to cheer up Max in BIY (RIGHT before Michael's revelation he's been helping Liz and he has the Destiny Book translation - which seems to reveal a way "home")... this DID NOT sit well with me.

WHAT was the poem only two episodes ago involving "snow"... in being repetitive, I'm posting again as a refresher....

Stopping By Woods on a Snowy Evening by Robert Frost

Whose woods these are I think I know.
His house is in the village though;
He will not see me stopping here
To watch his woods fill up with snow.

My little horse must think it queer
To stop without a farmhouse near
Between the woods and frozen lake
The darkest evening of the year.

He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there is some mistake.
The only other sound's the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

Whiteness and/or accumulation of snow... if my high school American Lit classes aren't failing me... This *white* snow actually represents DEATH, despair... the poem itself is a contemplation of suicide (if I remember correctly). If there IS indeed a connection, then the snow symbolizing "death" wouldn't be that much of a stretch honestly in concerns to BIY. First of all, we have this disaster of an alien pregnancy, so the situation is already fairly grim (snow piling up). As we know from MITC, Lonnie's private conversation with Nikolas... Kivar would want the podsters DEAD as soon as they'd set foot on Antar (I believe Niko said something about a public execution). Hence... imo, if the podsters DO go home... they're as good as dead. So the snow is possibly a foreshadowing of eminent doom?

If there's at all a connection here... how ironic that, the snow in ARCC meant hope or Max finding hope through Liz (Max [to Liz]: I believe in you). The snow in BIY is possibly completely the opposite? A symbol of despair, hope lost.

Melodious

By Nemo
05-08-2001, 09:19 AM
quote:Originally posted by zeroAutumn:
Someone already pointed this out, but I'll say it again. Why would Kyle say he and Tess were watching Gladiator when Alex was killed - they weren't. Everyone was at the Crashdown together.That's where they were when word of Alex's death reached them, but the accident may have been considerably earlier.

By MissLParker
05-08-2001, 09:21 AM
quote:Originally posted by Wishful Thinking:

Max's meldown at the trashcans... he tells Iz he's feeling irresponsible and [b]stupid. I thought: why yes Max, yes you are

[/B]

Amen! I don't know how many times I called Max a loser while watching this epi. When he goes to Iz for support in the beginning. Um, Max have you forgot that you threaten to destroy her life?

By MissLParker
05-08-2001, 09:28 AM
I thought that the snow might mean, that just as the snow covered his feelings for the loss of bigfoot so would Isabels snow symbolized a cover to hide and take care the alien pregnancy.???
But I love your description too Melodious, and I love your Avatar.

The only problem with the Khivar is their son theory is that would make Vilondra in love with her nephew? CAn anyone clarify that apparrent obstacle?

By Zara
05-08-2001, 09:39 AM
Snow is always a clue. Did you notice there was a watcher across the bridge during the snow scene with Isabel, Max and Michael?

Whose woods these are I think I know.
His house is in the village though;
He will not see me stopping here
To watch his woods fill up with snow.

(Melodious1, we think alike!)

Zara

By GraceKel
05-08-2001, 09:40 AM
So nobody else sees a connection here to DOUG SHELLOW also attending UNM in LC wanting to be an archaeologist and studying ancient languages?

By Wishful Thinking
05-08-2001, 09:40 AM
This was posted on another thread, but thought it was interesting.

quote:originally posted by Miss Roswell:
When I heard that dude say that Ray wanted Tai food morning, noon and night that sent a red flag to me.....sweet and spicy...hmmmm aliens???? I think so.

Made me go hmmm too

As for the Gladiator twist on things (Starbox right? ), I think you may be on to something! For awhile I've been wondering about the movie references Michael & Max have been making, what are they hinting at?

To my recollection they've mentioned: Braveheart, Matrix, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, & Gladiator.... 4 in all, did I miss any? Now I haven't seen CTHD yet, but the other 3 involve an initially reluctant hero who accepts the responsibility & fights the established tyrant in order to free his people.

Perhaps there is a connection with the movies' leading ladies in relation to the sceen the movies were mentioned and the episode/story arc in general. Perhaps some will relate to Liz (although not all may, but they may relate to the others: Iz, Maria, Tess). Thoughts?

By ckkitten
05-08-2001, 09:43 AM
quote:Originally posted by haniczka:
Shapeshifter, yes, I think so.

I just had a strange idea. Remember in the beginning of Skin and Bones, Max was in counselling? The man had little siver wire-rim glasses and a grey paisley tie. He tells Max he's just experiencing "normal teenage stuff" and Max turns to the camera and spills all. Then he turns back to the psychologist and we get the impression nothing was really said. What if the psychologist is the (or one of the)
"watcher(s)?" He observes Max through the camera the same way our watcher has been looking. Maybe he really sees Max's thoughts; and, what a perfect opportunity for mind-warping, in a psychologists office...just a thought. -HH

.....AND who knows he goes to a "shrink"?

Rath and Lonnie.

By Melodious1
05-08-2001, 09:43 AM
quote:Originally posted by StarBox:
Re: How did Alex get the destiny book??? Good question.

ITA, *very* good question. Has the Destiny Book been stored in the pod chamber this whole time for safe keeping? If so, and if the podsters are the only ones who can "access" the pod chamber (besides [a] Nasedo... and the only one we know of is dead, safely ruling him out)... then WHICH one of the podsters provided Alex with at least a copy (if not the original) Destiny Book?

Unfortunately, ITA with all those frustrated with the basic stupidity of this entire storyline - and the podsters. Here they go again, implicitly believing this Destiny Book translation not knowing WHAT was really up with Alex in translating it. Was he being emissaried?? If he was, should they *trust* the translaton of an unknown emissary?? Which, might I add, seemingly led to Alex's death! An emissary alien which somehow is connected to their friend's death and they're going to TRUST this translation?? Right.

quote:I'd say Tess has to be working with "Leanna".

I don't know, there's a small part of me that wants to believe Alex *himself* was leaving clues for Liz in hopes that maybe Liz would meet up with Leanna somehow (yet Leanna ran away from Liz and Maria when she saw them?). Although how or why Alex would want Liz to meet Leanna is beyond me. If this was his intent however, I'd have to think Leanna is a good guy, but who the h**l knows. Although if she was a "good" guy why would she run away?

quote:HELLO - she [Tess] GAVE you the book. She even claimed to understand its contents last season.

Here I go jumping on the "Tess is hiding something" boat again... but I honestly feel Tess could ALWAYS decipher the Destiny Book. I think she always knew what it said and didn't need it translated... or at least somehow knew what was in it, considering what she said last season (topped off with my own suspicions). I don't trust the translation the podsters currently have (simply because if they DID go home now, from MITC we know Kivar wants them D.E.A.D. - it would be unsafe for the "royals" to return home now) and I DO think Alex might have known the REAL or *complete* translation hence he was possibly liquidated. Alex was starting to realize something sinister was afoot and possibly remembering what he was doing while possibly being emissaried (he was "waking up" per se, as ROS likes to refer to these past few eppies).

Melodious

By Zara
05-08-2001, 09:45 AM
BTW, did Tess collapse in the kitchen before or after Liz asked her about mind control? I can't remember, and I'm at work (tsk, tsk), but if the collapse was after Liz's comments I'd say that Tess determined that desperate times required desperate measures (as if she wasn't thinking that already).

Was anyone else creeped out by Tess' heart and arrow doodle with Max's name by it? The arrow was piercing a hole in Maxie's heart. Clue clue clue

zara

By Zara
05-08-2001, 09:47 AM
quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
So nobody else sees a connection here to DOUG SHELLOW also attending UNM in LC wanting to be an archaeologist and studying ancient languages?

Yes, yes! Also, don't forget that Topolsky in the guidance office was working on a special AP computer opportunity for Alex... Could this have been it?

Zara

By Metaphysicalgrl
05-08-2001, 09:50 AM
quote:Originally posted by Melodious1:

If there's at all a connection here... how ironic that, the snow in ARCC meant hope or Max finding hope through Liz (Max [to Liz]: I believe in you). The snow in BIY is possibly completely the opposite? A symbol of despair, hope lost.

Melodious

Melodious, as I mentioned before in an earlier post, my take on the snow thing was actually a bit more on the positive side. When Isabelle made it snow and Michael drove up with the translation of the Destiny book (apparent solution to Max's problem), which he had only because of Liz... it totally reminded me of Max's line to Liz in ARCC "I believe in you". So, given what was happening in the storyline at that moment in time, I thought the snow was symbolic in a way of Max's belief in Liz -- in spite of everything else that has been going down. I mean, Max has this huge problem to deal with and Liz's investigation provides him with the exact answer he needs, even though he's being mindwarped and being an a$$ to her. I could be wrong, but that was just my take on it.

However, I am a firm believer that the Translation is fake. It's just too convenient, the circumstances surrounding how they got it are too questionable, and there are so many unanswered questions.

Maybe Leanna is Serena. Maybe Khivar or someone had actually been using Alex as a 'host' because he was someone who could possibly get to the Destiny book (of course it will be revealed later that Iz brought Alex to the chamber at some point. ) and they needed the Quantum computer at Las Cruces to decode it. Alex would be perfect for that as he is the right age and could be disguised as a student who would then be given access to the lab. Anyway, Leanna/Serena/Jennifer is helping Alex to fight the mindwarp and prevent that translation from getting into the wrong hands. However, what doesn't make sense to me is how that translation was conveniently left on a computer in the middle of some abandoned warehouse with the crystal tucked away right next to it, just waiting for someone to come along and hit print? And if that alien bomb had went off, wouldn't the crystal have been destroyed too? It just doesn't make any sense and reeks of a setup.

Anyhow, I'm babbling and I'm not really sure, but I do think that Leanna is possibly Serena but she doesn't want to expose herself yet to the podsquad because she doesn't want their enemies to know she is on the scene. I just have a feeling that whatever is going on right now is being manipulated by one of the podsters "watchers" to bring about the revelation that Tess is evil. This "watcher" would know that the pod squad was facing an inevitable death should they return home. So, this 'translation' is a setup and something is going to happen when they try to go home (using the translation provided) that is going to reveal that Tess is bad or use this as a way to flush out the real enemy. Of course Liz and co will be the ones to save the day, right?

Maybe Alex willingly volunteered for this job, because remember in the Hybrid Chronicles when he said something about dying to save the earth? It just seems to me like he was more than willing to make that kind of sacrifice.

Anyhow, just my incoherent thoughts as my brain tries without success to wrap itself around all of these new clues.

{~}:}

By Melodious1
05-08-2001, 09:53 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MissLParker:
I love your Avatar.

Gracias Funny how the avatar I have currently took me like two seconds to create, of which I was thinking no one was going to figure out what it was. When my old one was animated, took me *forever* to make and no one ever said anything about it.

Zara: What's that saying when two different people independently come up with the same theory? I think there could be a definite connection between the Frost poem and the snow symbolizing death, hence meaning the podsters are in BEAUCOUP trouble (and of course, have no idea).

Melodious

By GraceKel
05-08-2001, 10:08 AM
Zara never made the connection to the computer but I think you are right!!!! I was for some reason thinking of Topolsky last night though----I remember in her office them showing several times on a picture the letters JC----and I was like JC what does that mean---Jennifer Coleman? Wasn't that her name?
And was that OIL drilling going on there, right b4 they reached that abandoned property?
All the references to garbage disposal, overflowing TRASH and the word CRAP being used regularly--we must be up to our eyeballs in it hey? LOL!!!!
Melodious--interesting take on the SNOW--I must tell you that whole scene I was like WTH??????Big Foot the guinea pig? What was the point---I am lost--the whole scene sounded so ridiculous I thought surely a good clue is buried in there somewhere.

I will tell you if I were not a total CLUE HOUND I don't think I could bear to watch this show anymore and its direction----I actually feel sick to my stomach watching it now.
My take on Tess? I can play the I'm preggers card---when they are at the pod chamber and Max is questioning whether they should have the baby---SUDDENLY TESS IS SICK--oh I guess just be preggers isn't enough--so the warping gets bigger---Max connects to his SON???? And Tess gets sympathy? I felt like Max was being played like a fiddle the whole episode.

By DreamerVixen
05-08-2001, 10:10 AM
*tentatively comes out of lurkdom*

Hello all, I have a few theories of my own and would just like to expand upon them a bit if you don't mind...

ing frantically to Melodious...hey Mel!!!

By totenhosen
05-08-2001, 10:10 AM
Gracekel- I practically fell off of my couch when Maria said UNM!!! my boyfriend looked at me all funny and I had to explain the Doug Shellow thing, but I definitely think it's significant.

I can't believe we have to wait 2 weeks to see the fallout from the deciphering of the Destiny book!!! and if Max doesn't realize he owes Liz a great big fat apology and a "will you please find it in your heart to forgive me?" i will quite possibly damage my tv. anyways, if he doesn't figure out he owes her anything we'll KNOW for sure that tess is controlling him, won't we? even SMax can't be that oblivious, can he?

Grrr, if they cancel the show after Departure and nobody else picks it up, and we're left with no closure...it'd be a very mean trick.

totenhosen

By haniczka
05-08-2001, 10:25 AM
The neighbor's dog killed the groundhog, so Is. made it snow for two days. Everyone was incapacitated by it, except for them and they just played like children. Snow made Max forget his grief? He blew off thinking about death to play instead? No shovelling or helping neighbors, just angels and snowballs for the pod-squad.

Too many questions. I'm reading your threads and there are just too many. (small rant here) I feel like maybe we dreamers made Jason K. mad somehow and now he wants to get us back "You think you can control me with a few bottles of hot sauce? Well, take that, and that and THAT!" Why the need to describe an hour long orgasim? Please.

And why did Max have to take the initiative to hold Tess's hand? OUCH.
That made me more angry than anything. I did notice they wove their fingers the way one would when preparing to arm wrestle - not the usual way for lovers. It reminded me of the kissing awkwardness Tasyfa talks about. Who holds hands like that? Like in so many other ways, something is off.

Miss Parker, ITA about Max's reaction to Liz when he finds her talking to Tess. He was so quick to let accusations fly, they had to be coming from inside of himself. He describes the night with Tess by saying he feels "wierd" about it. That's odd too.

I'm not convinced about the brain warp theory anymore. I think it could be real. But I have to agree with Max: the whole thing is very wierd. BTW, who exactly is the groundhog? -HH

By totenhosen
05-08-2001, 10:31 AM
ok, so i thought of a few things.

i don't think that leanna/jennifer is serena. the whole message leanna is not leanna just seemed more of a creepy warning than like a subtle hint that she's somebody to be trusted, especially since it was a locked file.

furthermore, i don't think that the whole "How to Use the Granolith to Return to the Home Planet" section of the book translation will be correct. i have a suspicion that the leanna character is not someone to be trusted, and therefore any attempt to use the granolith to get home will either just be a big failure in that nothing will happen at all, or else it will be some way to destroy the granolith, thus cutting the podsters off from all communication with the home planet, or even it could be some way for the podsters enemies to destroy the podsters and send themselves home at the same time. leaving the computer and that bomb in the middle of the desert (an isolated location where nobody would see a freaky alien explosion or discover any bodies...) is too suspicious for my tastes. plus, how convenient was it that the translation was just waiting for them to find it? i just don't buy it.

anyways, i know nobody else seems to think this, but i believe that leanna is a bad guy, she was helping to control alex and somehow she realized that he was breaking free of the control so she is behind his death. perhaps alex was on his way to reveal the translated destiny book to the podsters and leanna intercepted him on the road and used alien powers to drive his car into the truck??? quite possibly she may be in cahoots with lonnie. i'm still waiting for the dupes to show up again, tie up some of these loose ends.

oh, i just wanted to throw this out:
has anybody noticed that the episodes are written by so many different people? no wonder the continuity between eps is so bad; i doubt if the writers for one ep call up the writers of the previous ep and ask them where they were going with the storyline. not to say that our findings don't mean anything, but i wonder exactly how much communication goes on between the writers.

anyways, enough for me, i'm supposed to be studying for exams

totenhosen

By Melodious1
05-08-2001, 10:31 AM
quote:Originally posted by Metaphysicalgrl:
However, I am a firm believer that the *Translation is fake*. It's just too convenient, the circumstances surrounding how they got it are too questionable, and there are so many unanswered questions.

ITA Meta, I also don't trust that translation *at all*. Which is mostly my basis to think that the snow did indeed mean something dark, particularly being bombarded with that particular Frost poem only two eps ago.

Although I'll give you that this "snow" could have also possibly meant something positive (since at one time it did seem to represent Max "believing" in Liz). It could have been a *reminder* to Max to TRUST Liz again, of which he seemingly hasn't been able to do at all these past few eps. He's been completely distrusting her and even trying to debunct her investigating. Not so long ago, even if he thought Liz *might* be wrong, he would have went to hell and back for her. He "believed" in Liz and wasn't empregnating girls he doesn't love, of which forcing them all to return home (which they should know is extremely risky). WTF is wrong with our current Max??

Of course, Max trusting Liz again is rather difficult... in trusting Liz, he also must distrust Tess to a certain extent. Liz has NEVER trusted the girl. Max believes he's gotten T pregnant - so it's not like he can abandon her now. Trust Liz or take care of your responsability/duty? Is this story so cut and dry that one is the RIGHT path and one is the WRONG one? If so, who is right and who is wrong?

quote:Maybe Leanna is Serena.

For a brief moment, I was thinking that Leanna could possibly be that "alien with weird vision" from S&B (watching Michael), AN (watching/stalking Max), WIPE OUT (watching Liz and Maria)... although that mostly came about from my paranoia in that Leanna - as some of y'all have mentioned - RECOGNIZED Liz and Maria which caused her to run from them for whatever reason (How would Leanna know what they looked like or their significance hence her need to run?). IF Leanna is that "alien with weird vision" - then it's seemingly crucial for her to remain in hiding for whatever reason. If Leanna IS a protector and she's Serena... why would Serena have a "friendship" with Liz in the future EOTW storyline? FMax seemed to portray Serena's relationship exclusive to Liz.

quote:Anyway, Leanna/Serena/Jennifer is helping Alex to fight the mindwarp and prevent that translation from getting into the wrong hands.

It would make sense to me that *someone* was "helping" Alex possibly to break out of whatever was going on with him. Brody, for example, has seemingly been emissaried off and on for *years*, yet has made almost NO progress in trying to remember his "abductions". Alex, however, was catching on right away that something very strange was going on ("Why does everything have to be a lie?", "Leanna is not Leanna", etc).

Although if Kivar *was* emissarying Alex... then it must have been Leanna who planted those fake photos of herself with Al. Wouldn't Kivar have *known* Leanna was trying to get in the way via the fake photos/slides? Did Kivar KNOW this hence Leanna's "interference" is part of the reason why Alex might have been killed? Leanna interfered, hence allowing Alex to eventually remember what happened to him if given the chance. Kivar couldn't risk this, so bye bye Alex? Leanna tries to protect him, but at the same time has to hide from Kivar who she knows is lurking about (via her "helping" Alex). Leanna/Serena knows that if she's killed, the podsters are totally up the creek without a paddle... so she has to protect herself to protect the Royals, even if it meant Alex's death?

quote:However, what doesn't make sense to me is how that translation was conveniently left on a computer in the middle of some abandoned warehouse with the crystal tucked away right next to it, just waiting for someone to come along and hit print? And if that alien bomb had went off, wouldn't the crystal have been destroyed too? It just doesn't make any sense and reeks of a setup.

ITA Meta, I also smell major set-up here.

quote:I do think that Leanna is possibly Serena but she doesn't want to expose herself yet to the podsquad because she doesn't want their enemies to know she is on the scene.

If Leanna is Serena, imo, the enemies already know about her and that she's on the scene (due to her connection to Alex). Hence, possibly Leanna's reasons for running from Liz and Maria... she was actually protecting them because if L/Ma had caught her, then that would have not only blown her cover, but also put all their lives in danger.

If Leanna is Serena and Serena is also a protector... this could be how Alex gets a hold of the Destiny Book too. Although then how would Kivar work into this scenario (if he works into this scenario at all)?

Melodious

By Melodious1
05-08-2001, 10:34 AM
quote:Originally posted by DreamerVixen:
ing frantically to Melodious...hey Mel!!!

Frantically back at DVix I've finally returned from hiding in Cali.

Melodious

By roswelldiva
05-08-2001, 10:45 AM
quote:Originally posted by DreamerVixen:
*tentatively comes out of lurkdom*

Hello all, I have a few theories of my own and would just like to expand upon them a bit if you don't mind...

So where are they ? C'mon out with it .

ps I just wanted to say I love the word 'emissarying'

By Wishful Thinking
05-08-2001, 11:08 AM
Anyone have any specs about the scene where Michael acts all brutish, grabs Liz's arm, and says something like 'your not going anywhere'?

Seemed very out of character to me, but gotta love the way Liz stood her ground & told him he couldn't make her do anything!

By Alexis
05-08-2001, 11:26 AM
Fmax about the night of Gomez: “We made love”
Stepford Max: “Hot Alien Sex”

No comparison who is real and who is not!

I think they did reedit some of OTM, but not sure. If they didn’t I think that would be odd.

Quote by huggybehr
I have said it before and I'll say it again. If the baby cannot survive on Earth, how do the pod squad expect to survive on the home planet?

I have wondered the same thing! But the destiny book seems to imply they are in human form while on Earth, but maybe they can change when on Antar.

Woohoo. They finally put in the name of the planet! Just noticed that.

By lil' sasha
05-08-2001, 11:26 AM
The last scene was so WIERD to me too. I noticed that what was especially wierd about it was that it was absolutely and completely deviod of any music. No background music, no hip songs with hidden meaning. Just quiet. Does anyone remember if past mindwarps were typically silent? It is either a sign that a major mindwarp is taking place OR the Roswell crew blew their budget on the alien bomb explosion and couldn't afford any music for the last 2 minutes of the show.

By Tasyfa
05-08-2001, 11:43 AM
I've been thinking about Max's outburst at Liz, and I think I've come up with a reasonable explanation for it. I'll have lots of other stuff to say later (esp. after I tape the ep tonight) but I actually liked this ep. It was overwhelmingly obvious that Tess was manipulating Max. I don't think she was MWing him; once he believed that they had Tex the rest is merely playing him, dragging him along for the ride. Anyway, here's what I've been thinking

K, when Max saw Liz there, talking to Tess, he realized that he wishes those events had happened with Liz. He is feeling incredibly guilty that they did not. He is also feeling a resurgence of anger that she slept with Kyle, hence making it impossible for them to ever be each other's first, which makes him bitter. He is feeling guilty about what he said about their friendship being over, esp. since she didn't go to Sweden after all, and he had previously promised to always be her friend. He knows in his heart that she's right about Alex's murder having been alien-related, but can't admit that b/c the whole idea scares the crap out of him. And he's feeling completely defensive about being an alien, his words to Michael & to Tess in ITL&ITB confirm that he's been struggling with his status. To have Liz there, a human girl who has powers b/c of him, whom he still loves, asking Tess about powers when Max and Liz are at war, just tossed him over the edge. Add in the fact that Tess has been playing with his mind and voilà, we have one very nasty Max.
~Tas

By Zara
05-08-2001, 11:43 AM
quote:Originally posted by lil' sasha:
The last scene was so WIERD to me too. I noticed that what was especially wierd about it was that it was absolutely and completely deviod of any music. No background music, no hip songs with hidden meaning. Just quiet. Does anyone remember if past mindwarps were typically silent? ...

Remember the invisible watcher is there across the bridge. and connect it back to Frost...

Whose woods these are I think I know.
His house is in the village though;
He will not see me stopping here
To watch his woods fill up with snow.

My little horse must think it queer
To stop without a farmhouse near
Between the woods and frozen lake
The darkest evening of the year.

He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there is some mistake.
The only other sound's the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

sorry to post the poem again in its entirety, but it's easier than having to scroll back and forth...

Zara

By totenhosen
05-08-2001, 11:54 AM
hmm, so i know i *said* i was gonna go study, but...

i had a thought. what if somehow this advanced alien civilization could manipulate the podsters chromosomes and stuff so that they *could* mate. what i'm thinking is something along these lines, the end goal is for the royal four to return to the home planet at some point. if tess is really the recreated queen and max the former king, it would be a big oversight if upon returning to the home planet they either could not survive or could not produce an heir. so supposing that once they return home they can be converted into alien bodies somehow? then they would have no problems surviving on the home world. also, they would be able to produce an heir to the throne and ensure zan's line's continued rule.

another possibility, what if the podsters would have no problems living on their home planet, but there would be no reason to have their offspring come out as hybrids. so the aliens have manipulated the hybrids' dna such that they are capable of producing alien babies only. this would allow for alien heirs upon return to the home world. but maybe the aliens were actually semi-intelligent (i know, hard to believe from what we've seen so far) and planned for the event that perhaps some of the royals wouldn't be able to keep their pants on until they got home, so the alien nature of the baby is also a protective measure so that it won't be able to be born on earth and draw attention to the royals?? therefore, tess can never have the baby, max can see what a big mistake he's making, and liz may be able to forgive him and our fave couple can be back together again.

just a harebrained idea i came up with while attempting to use my brain for academic purposes.

totenhosen

By Metaphysicalgrl
05-08-2001, 12:01 PM
quote:Originally posted by Melodious1:
ITA [b]Meta , I also smell major set-up here.[/b]

It just *has* to be a setup! Someone is manipulating everyone to achieve the final goal: which is to get Max/Zan back to Antar. Period.

In regards to the snow, I took it as more of a sign for the *audience* that we should believe in Max and Liz, but I had forgotten about the Robert Frost poem. The setting was actually more *woodsy* then the other park settings we've seen in Roswell, so hey, either way we agree that the snow was *symbolic of something*. Maybe we'll be lucky and in the S2 primer someone will tell us what the hell we were supposed to make of it!

quote:If Leanna is Serena, imo, the enemies already know about her and that she's on the scene (due to her connection to Alex). Hence, possibly Leanna's reasons for running from Liz and Maria... she was actually protecting them because if L/Ma had caught her, then that would have not only blown her cover, but also put all their lives in danger.

If Leanna is Serena and Serena is also a protector... this could be how Alex gets a hold of the Destiny Book too. Although then how would Kivar work into this scenario (if he works into this scenario at all)?

Melodious

Actually, if Leanna is Serena and the other protector of the podsquad, and she is interfering with Alex's control or whatever, I don't think the evil aliens would necessary know about it. Assume that Khivar is back on Antar using Alex's body as a host. We have already been told that that it requires too much of their resources to hold onto a host for very long. As evidenced by Brody, someone under 'posession' doesn't have any memories of anything that ocurred during that posession time. Now, I'm not really sure what to make of this, but I think what 'Ray's roomate' told Maria and Liz about the one night where he ran into Ray leaving the Computing Lab at 4:00 in the morning is significant. I thought he dropped two very important clues in his story. 1) He had never seeen Ray leave the dorm room and he ordered Thai food for breakfast, Lunch and dinner. Always the same thing. 2) When he DID see Ray outside of the dorm room at 4:00 in the morning, they were standing a few feet apart - they were the only ones outside in that vacinity -- and it appeared to the roomate as if Ray *didn't recognize him*. The fact that Ray didn't recognize him I think is a very strong clue that Alex was in and out of some kind of control. Now, back to Leanna/Jennifer... if she is interfering with whatever is going on with Alex (and for the case of this argument I am going to assume that she's good), and let's just say she is Serena who is the other protector -- those pictures of her and Alex (as well as his memories of these events) could've been planted by *her* as clues to Liz and whomever that something was wrong. Maybe these were devices that Serena and Alex put into place *just in case something went wrong with the plan*. The fact that Leanna recognized Liz and Maria is also significant. Maybe she was *purposefully* leading Maria and Liz to find out her true identity and find the warehouse, or maybe Liz and Maria weren't meant to find that translation at all. Maybe that was for one of the other enemies to find...

Anyhow, I have to admit at this point I am beyond confused my brain is going in circles!! There are so many different ways this can play out, but the bottom line is, it's a set-up and something big is going to go down if the podsters try to use this translation to go home. That's my guess. Who is setting them up and why is anyone's guess...but I would be really surprised if the translation turns out to be real and accurate. Or, even if the translation is accurate, it's being used to manipulate the podsters into getting Max back to Antar. Khivar wants Max/Zan back on Antar so he can kill him and quiet his supporters finally...everything that is happening right now can be traced directly back to that.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Mel I'm looking forward to hearing you're response to this!

And hey, RBI's our thread is moving so quick these days! It does a heart good to see...

{~}:}

By Tigereyes
05-08-2001, 12:02 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by StarBox:
Look again at the mom-o-gram - she clearly tells Max that he must defeat the enemy BEFORE he returns home. The goal is not to come home.
It would make no sense to send the podsters with the idea that as soon as they hit puberty they would mate and make alien babies and would have to rush home to save the little green monsters. Why send them at all??? They are just going to return home to get killed again. Nope - their mandate is to DEFEAT the enemy and THEN return home.
Going home before they have learned to use their powers, knowledge and skill to defeat the enemy is simply walking into a trap - or as Khivar said "a public execution".
[QUOTE]

Hi I have come out of lurkerdom to say Starbox you have hit on exactly the reason why I think 's mind is being played with. Has he forgotten that he was told at the summit that he made some powerful enemies. Like Lonnie said, you'd have to be a "special kind of stupid" not to realize that.It just occurs to me that T*** is playing the trump card of having a troubled pregnacy to get him to go home.She keeps him so preoccupied with worring about her and not thinking clearly, he'd probably agree to anything she suggets. Once they got there, they probably would have that most "public" of executions. I am hoping something will break T***'s hold on before that happens.

I have a question I am hoping someone can answer in regards to the pyramid shaped bomb....Was it already activated when walked into the room or did she set it off?? I slo-mo'd the scene but still can't quite tell.....

What do you think?

Thanks!

By avaSpeaks
05-08-2001, 12:16 PM
Don't know if anybody brougth this up, but I thought that Tess was at the Crashdown with everybody when Alex was killed???

But she was with Kyle??? Okay, so which one is it???

I believe that one of those instances was a mindwarp!!! You can't be at two places at the same time.

By iggy7275
05-08-2001, 01:08 PM
Hi everyone!

Can someone look at last night epi, and check during the Neli Furtado concert right before Liz spots Leanna look at her eyes, do you see her eyes all watery like if she was about to cry?

You think the song is a clue?

By sunrise
05-08-2001, 01:39 PM
I have a theory. I'm not sure if anyone has already brought it up and if they have then I'm sorry for being redundant. Is it possible that perhaps when Alex was killed on the highway he was going to that abandoned house? If so, then the question is why?

I'm no more convinced than ever that part of the reason the podsquad was sent to earth was to learn the other part of their brains. The part that allows them to THINK! They haven't been doing much of that lately have they? Yes, they know how to blow things up and change the color of nail polish, but they do not know how to think logically.

Roxy

By Crazy4Roswell16
05-08-2001, 01:41 PM
Ok, well I calmed down. I'm still mad about the episode (it really pissed me off) But now I realize i just have to keep my faith. I totally believe that everything will be resolved in the Season Finale.

What I don't understand is:
a) How could T*** be in two places at
once? Was she at the crashdown
or was she with Kyle!?
b)I think it's just WAY TOO CONVENIENT
that the baby just happens to not be
able to survive on Earth...I smell a
fish....ewww!
c)The whole Leanna/Destiny Book thing
is just super sketchy and I don't like
it. Not one bit. grrrr!
d)I like the comparison of the snow to the
poem. I do believe that the poem
was about despair and death. uhoh.
e) ok i have nothing else, I just like the letter E so i had to get here...

Crazy me!! ok well.....yeah.

Buh Bye!!
~*~Meaghan~*~

100% DREAMER
I SHALL BELIEVE

By Bacio83
05-08-2001, 01:54 PM
When Alex sat down after he delivered his speach to the cold Thai food delivery guy. He picked up the picture between him and Leanna. Then he was gone maybe he was heading to the abandoned building to meet Leanna. As far as that device it went off as soon as Liz entered that room then Maria entered but Micheal was not in the room at all he threw it out the window from the entry way in the kitchen or whatever so Liz set off the red thingy. I wonder why though Alex's head was cut out of the photo it was too wierd I have been wondering why exactly. I would also like to see the season finale I hope Max appologizes and realizes everything.

By redhawk
05-08-2001, 02:12 PM
Thanks MissLParker, haniczka, & Eraser Room! One of these days I'll post the full size version of the animation that my avatar was based on. It is very cool when you can actually see what's going on. 3500 bytes is not enough room for the good detail.

Thanks Tasyfa & Alexis and anyone else I missed! I'm so glad you liked Anguish. I'm going to start working on the third in the series soon. Although now it has finally dried up outside and I may get my spring fever back. We had four days of solid rain mixed with snow last week and my husband finally said on Sunday, "Should I start to build that ark soon?" We live in a very arid part of the USA and I can honestly not remember the last time we had four days of straight precipitation.

Tasyfa - I always love to hear your thoughts about direction and writing. Very insightful.

StarBox - That Christine Kane song would have been perfect. But it most definitely would not have been subtle.

quote:Originally posted by Zara:
If I may explain, Max and Liz appear to have done the same thing to one another, as far as Max knows. He found it hard to believe Liz slept with Kyle, but I think he's found it more difficult, near impossible, to forgive her for the distance she's placed between them. Where was the Liz Parker he loved? She's abandoned him.

Now Max has slept with Tess (or at least it appears). Why did he do that? Because he gave up? Because everyone had deserted him and he turned to Tess in loneliness and isolation? It's not so much the sex that's hard to forgive, it's his abandonment. Anyway, where is MAX EVANS?
Zara, I know what you mean. I just feel like Max is being such a fool. When is he going to wake up and realize his mistakes?
I kept repeating over and over last night, "Max, you are a fool."

I've read through all the posts and I think you've covered a lot of what I was going to mention. Just a few things I noticed:
Max's hair was different again for parts of this ep. His bangs were swept back.
Why wasn't Isabel's pic next to Max's in the yearbook?
Michael states that he thinks Max is too smart to get Tess pregnant. Is this a clue to Max's mindwarp? Or is it just showing how very out-of-it Max is?
Why does Nasedo tell them the alien pregnancy lasts about a month? He doesn't seem to tell them much of anything, but yet he tells him this! That so made me want to scream!!!

SO, about Alex... can we assume that getting the Thai food was the stimulus for him remembering? He had Thai food constantly at UNM and then when he is home in Roswell and orders it, he seems to snap. hmm....
My question is: did Alex go to UNM of his own free will or was he coerced(sp?) there perhaps by mindcontrol? Depending on how you answer this question it just leads to more questions. AHHHHH!

Why is the translation of the Alien Book that Alex made somewhat different from what the MOM-o-gram said in Destiny? Is the Mom-o-gram correct? Is the Alien Book correct? Is the translation correct? So many questions, so few answers.

I didn't mind this ep too much, but I have the awful feeling that the writers have been digging themselves a hole eversince Destiny. I just hope it's not grave-size. As I've said before and I'll say it again, JK is going to have to be one brilliant man to wrap this up to my satisfaction by Departure. Eeycarumba!

Oh, and one more thing. Max is going to have to get down on his hands and knees, kiss her feet, and beg for forgiveness. She did what was asked of her in EotW and has been right about everything ever since. If this is not a mindwarp and Liz does forgive him, she may just be a far better human than me. I'm kind of thinking Max should get down on his hands and knees, kiss my feet, and beg for my forgiveness, but I don't know if it would make me feel any better about the situation that Roswell has collapsed into. Pretty soon I think it might just implode on itself and if it does, I just want to let you all know I've really enjoyed our sleuthing together. Thanks for being such great Ros-buds!

By StephStephSteph
05-08-2001, 02:24 PM
Hi RBI!

FINALLY, I've gotten a free moment to come and check on all your brilliant thoughts! As always,

I have a few thoughts of my own, so here goes..

1) Did anyone else see the light bulb when Liz and that guy were looking at the Super Computer Binary Code screen? (The Matrix Screen Saver ) I just wanted them to come up with SOMETHING that used the Binary Code from the signed receipt in CYN! Of course, they didn't, but I wanted them too!

2) I had this very bizarre feeling when T and Max were on the couch and they were talking about "going home". T said something about how she thought "that was always the ultimate goal - going home" and looked as if she was waiting for Max to say, "Of COURSE it is", at which point she was going to whip out the translation to the book and ALL the answers and reveal that she HAS been keeping secrets! But, when Max said that it WAS, but he didn't know when and didn't they "already have enough on the plate" (or something like that), she stopped and decided this wasn't the right point. One more reason she's

3) Good point to whomever mentioned the baby being poisoned by the atmosphere and the impossibility of that! Babies in the fetus doing breath the surrounding air, so again, T is

4) I have two theories that could be true about who Leanna REALLY is. First, she could be Serena (I like this idea best). In TEOTW, FM says that Serena and Liz help discover how to use the Granolith and that crystal that Michael found looked like the one they need to use it! Therefore, if Leanna was helping Alex, then she would have left the crystal and the "directions" for the Pod Squad to find, hence helping them to figure out how to use the Granolith!

Or.. second, Michael seemed very Rath like in the last few scenes - and Iz seemed very Lonnie'ish, so.. it could all be a ploy. When Maria told Michael about where they were going I couldn't shake the feeling he wanted to know because he wanted to get his hands on whatever Leanna and Alex were working on. As if, he knew, but somehow couldn't get all the pieces to fit by himself and needed to get Liz to "help". It just seemed too weird when Michael grabbed Liz's arm outside UNM. And then he was there to "find the crystal" and "find the translation"?

That last scene was the kicker! Much more Zan (Max controlled by Ms. T ), Rath and Lonnie than Max, Iz and Michael!

Lastly, I took the time to translate what I could read from the translation and this is what I got..

"You are the Royal Four. Zan, the King. Ava, his Queen. Vilandra, his sister and his counslor. You were created from the genetic material of your alien predecessors and human subjects. You were given human form so that you could live safely, on the planet, undetected. Until the time comes for your return you have also been given communications technology, which will allow you to access information from your true home. The chamber containing your H????? pods and Granolith has been hidden away from human settlement. It can only be accessed by the four of you. You have been provided with a Guardian who will protect you from danger and keep you hidden from your enemies, both human and Antarrean.

A fixed sequence of events requires from one abduction reports to another. The story consists of eight possible episode - capture examination conference, tour of the ship, journey or otherwordly journey, Theo??? return and aftermath, few reports contain every possible episode, but when it appears it usually assumes the same relative position. That is, examination preceeds conference and conference preceeds otherworldly journey. Fidelty to the sequence characterizes 84 of the 109 reports in the 1947 study.

This ??? order extends to the events in the capture, examination and return episodes as well. In the sequence..."

Sorry, I had a few words I couldn't read and I lost patience!

By Tasyfa
05-08-2001, 03:19 PM
redhawk Thank you As for this, "Why wasn't Isabel's pic next to Max's in the yearbook?" In my high school, the pictures were arranged according to homeroom class. So if Max was in class 11A and Isabel was in class 11B (for example), they would be in different sections of the yearbook. I think that's prob. the case with the WRH yearbooks, b/c that's the only way I could see them skipping from Cooper(?) to Parker in the yearbook shown in TSAP!
~Tas

By Tasyfa
05-08-2001, 03:23 PM
I posted this at Cherishing and it's a little more Dreamy than RBI-y, but I think it's still relevant, esp. since we could all use a pick-me-up!

Compare & Contrast
When Max and Liz woke up in the desert in SH, it was a tender moment. They gazed at each other, completely happy, and were about to kiss (and who knows what else) when Nasedo interrupted them. He drove her home, and they stayed in the car, kissing, for several moments before getting out. Walking across the street, they talked, and Max made a passionate declaration about wanting to be part of Liz's life. They laced hands, and went in to face the music together.

When Max & Tess woke up, he smiled at her but his face fell once she couldn't see it. He was being gallant. He drove her home, and seemed very uncomfortable. They didn't talk about what had happened, in fact he hardly said anything. He gave her 2 perfunctory kisses, and when Jim came in, he scrammed. Even later in school, when he took her hand, it was b/c he felt he should, not b/c he really wanted to.

Max isn't the kind of guy to just have a one-night stand; we all know that. So here he is, believing that he had Tex, and trying to do the right thing, even if it kills him. Whereas we would have had a repeat of the hallway kiss in Crazy if it had been Liz. B/c he wanted to kiss Liz, b/c he'd always wanted to do that (which line was cut from he script). He doesn't want to be with Tess now, he just thinks that he has to be.

It's funny, b/c a lot of people are saying they've lost respect for Max. Me, I respect him for what he's doing. He was MW/MR into the Tex, but he doesn't know that, he thinks he got lost in the moment or whatever. Now he's doing his damndest to deal with the fallout and take responsibility for his reckless actions. That, I respect. That's why BIY wasn't nearly as hard for me as ITL&ITB, b/c I could see more of the real Max. He's being nudged now, instead of being under complete control. Tess knows what kind of a person Max is, and she's using that to advance her schemes. His mini-meltdown is indicative of his true self fighting the bindings placed on his mind, and it was also long overdue, IMO. I've been waiting for Max to have a breakdown for ages.

I'm starting to ramble now, so I'll cut myself off, but I'd just like you guys to think about it. What we about Max is that he is an incredibly, incredibly honourable guy. And that's what he's being now, in this impossible situation. His lashing out at Liz is only a further indication of his deep feelings for her, feelings that he thinks are slipping farther and farther away from any hope of redemption. He is wrong. Liz will discover the truth and she will free him from the false bonds that Tess has created. We just have 14 more days to wait to see it
~Tas

By Leanan-Sidhe
05-08-2001, 03:27 PM
tasyfa: Did you note the song playing when Max and Tess woke up? Pretty telling lyrics, I believe.

Fade Into You
by Mazzy Star
I wanna hold the hand inside you
I wanna take the breath's that true
I look to you and I see nothing
I look to you to see the truth

You live your life, you go in shadow
You'll come apart and you'll go blind
Some kind of night into your darkness
Colors your eyes with what's not there

Fade into you
Strange you never knew
Fade into you
I think it's strange you never knew

The strange light comes on slowly
A stranger's heart without a home
You put your hands into your head
And with smiles cover your heart

Fade into you...

By Celtic Princess
05-08-2001, 03:30 PM
Hi BIY was really weird. I was bored lol. I don't know who said it but someone here said that Liz's zodiac sign might be Virgo. Here's what I found on Virgo. It's the legend on the constellatin. Virgo is the Goddess of Innocence and Purity,Astraea.This goes back to when Zeus sent Pandora down to Earth as a punishment to man. Because of her curiosity, she opened the box the gods had warned her not to, and let the plagues of hate, envy, sickness, etc. out into the world. Of course, Hope did not escape, but the Earth was just unbearable. One by one, the gods returned to the heavens to live. Astraea was the last to leave. She became the constellation Virgo, and according to legend, when the Golden Age comes again, Astraea will return to the Earth.
This definatly reminds me of Liz.I found out some other things: Astrea's mother is the Goddess of Justice, Themis who's the constellation of Libra. In the constellation Scorpio, the brightest star is called Antares So THAT'S where the writers got the name of the planet!
But as for the Leanna thing: she could be Serena OR she could be Ava. Remembered how she disappeared? Suppose Ava asked Alex to translate it in order to help the other and perhaps expose Tess? Hmm..
well, I have to go. TTYL.
*~Mandi~*

By haniczka
05-08-2001, 03:53 PM
Everyone, your posts are so theraputic. Thank you. Tasyfa, I know this sounds like I'm kissing up; (give credit where it's due) you always express my thoughts but better. The scene with Max and Liz, it was also interesting that for the first time in ahwile, Liz was acquiescent to Max "Can I please go now?" "Yes." I have to add a single guitar note sounded as she left.

C.Kitten, Yes! I had forgotten Lonnie and Rath know about the shrink!

Did anyone get the lyrics to the song sung on campus? It was something about not knowing where home is and not knowing where the soul is... -HH

By NotOfThisEarth
05-08-2001, 04:32 PM
Did anyone else notice this - when Max and Tess are in the pod chamber and Max 'connects' with the baby - in the background two of the four pods are glowing and two of the pods are dark. I believe it was the lower right (Max's pod) and the upper left that were glowing and the lower left (Tess's pod from her hatching explaination) and the upper right were dark.

What is the significane here?! There has to be something! Possibly two of the pod squad are under control (Tess and Isabel?) or aren't who they appear to be? Any thoughts?

By Crazy4Roswell16
05-08-2001, 04:56 PM
OH WOW!!! I did not see that!! the pods GLOWED?

Well it could just signify that Max and T*** did it. *sigh* Like we NEED a reminder. It's imprinted on my brain for like all eternity. I'm still pissed. ANybody else?

By SciFiMom
05-08-2001, 05:08 PM
Hello all...

I wanted to throw my own twist on the current topics. What if Lani's (Lonni?) "secret" card IS Ava/Tess? We have all speculated that they were switched, so what if the dupes all know this. AND what if the dupes protector was actually Nacedo. He found the pod squad before their protecter (who has been watching over them). So, if Tess is actually a dupe she may have been helping the other dupes all along. They might be planning a way to switch Is/Lani and Michael/Rath as well. Especially since the dupes appear to be in cohoots with Kivar. The mind control could be from Kivar himself, and Tess just playing along. What do you all think? Sound plausible?

BTW, I noticed the glowing in the chamber too. And wondered about it...but alas my VCR is dead so I was unable to tape it. Luckily I have all you wonderful people and I am sure we will have pics and specs soon!

~Sheri

By StarBox
05-08-2001, 06:10 PM
Redhawk wrote:

Just a few things I noticed:
Max's hair was different again for parts of this ep. His bangs were swept back.

*********************************************
WOW!!!!!!!!! Redhawk - I had heard a speculation that there was a "trigger" that might show when a mindwarp was occurring. I have been looking for clues in the lighting and etc - but I do believe you may have just stumbled on it!
Anyone feel up to rewatching HOM-BIY and keeping track of the scenes where Max has swept back bangs???
Michael has swept back bangs at times too - doesnt he..............

SO, about Alex... can we assume that getting the Thai food was the stimulus for him remembering? He had Thai food constantly at UNM and then when he is home in Roswell and orders it, he seems to snap. hmm....

*********************************************
Another WOW! Great observation.

Re: Leanna - the idea hadnt even occurred to me that she might be be good or Serena-related - but I suppose she could be............
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I still kind of think she is Lonnie - it just seems tooooo convenient that Lonnie says she can get home while Alex is on his "decoding" mission. But - who lnows! It does seem awfully convenient - the way they find all the stuff.
And yes - it SCREAMS "set up"

The Nelly Futuro song went "I dont know where my home is. I dont know where my soul is"

Tasfya - great compare/contrast. Max seemed so disturbed by the Tex - it definately didnt seem to "cement" any "bond" between them. I wonder if Isabel would have let Max talk - if he wouldnt have confessed that it didnt seem quite - REAL.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

By Crazy4Roswell16
05-08-2001, 06:11 PM
OH WOW!!! I did not see that!! the pods GLOWED?

Well it could just signify that Max and T*** did it. *sigh* Like we NEED a reminder. It's imprinted on my brain for like all eternity. I'm still pissed. ANybody else?

By StarBox
05-08-2001, 06:15 PM
Redhawk wrote:

Just a few things I noticed:
Max's hair was different again for parts of this ep. His bangs were swept back.

*********************************************
WOW!!!!!!!!! Redhawk - I had heard a speculation that there was a "trigger" that might show when a mindwarp was occurring. I have been looking for clues in the lighting and etc - but I do believe you may have just stumbled on it!
Anyone feel up to rewatching HOM-BIY and keeping track of the scenes where Max has swept back bangs???
Michael has swept back bangs at times too - doesnt he..............

SO, about Alex... can we assume that getting the Thai food was the stimulus for him remembering? He had Thai food constantly at UNM and then when he is home in Roswell and orders it, he seems to snap. hmm....

*********************************************
Another WOW! Great observation.

Re: Leanna - the idea hadnt even occurred to me that she might be be good or Serena-related - but I suppose she could be............
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I still kind of think she is Lonnie - it just seems tooooo convenient that Lonnie says she can get home while Alex is on his "decoding" mission. But - who lnows! It does seem awfully convenient - the way they find all the stuff.
And yes - it SCREAMS "set up"

The Nelly Futuro song went "I dont know where my home is. I dont know where my soul is"

Tasfya - great compare/contrast. Max seemed so disturbed by the Tex - it definately didnt seem to "cement" any "bond" between them. I wonder if Isabel would have let Max talk - if he wouldnt have confessed that it didnt seem quite - REAL.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

By StarBox
05-08-2001, 06:19 PM
Redhawk wrote:

Just a few things I noticed:
Max's hair was different again for parts of this ep. His bangs were swept back.

*********************************************
WOW!!!!!!!!! Redhawk - I had heard a speculation that there was a "trigger" that might show when a mindwarp was occurring. I have been looking for clues in the lighting and etc - but I do believe you may have just stumbled on it!
Anyone feel up to rewatching HOM-BIY and keeping track of the scenes where Max has swept back bangs???
Michael has swept back bangs at times too - doesnt he..............

SO, about Alex... can we assume that getting the Thai food was the stimulus for him remembering? He had Thai food constantly at UNM and then when he is home in Roswell and orders it, he seems to snap. hmm....

*********************************************
Another WOW! Great observation.

Re: Leanna - the idea hadnt even occurred to me that she might be be good or Serena-related - but I suppose she could be............
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I still kind of think she is Lonnie - it just seems tooooo convenient that Lonnie says she can get home while Alex is on his "decoding" mission. But - who lnows! It does seem awfully convenient - the way they find all the stuff.
And yes - it SCREAMS "set up"

The Nelly Futuro song went "I dont know where my home is. I dont know where my soul is"

Tasfya - great compare/contrast. Max seemed so disturbed by the Tex - it definately didnt seem to "cement" any "bond" between them. I wonder if Isabel would have let Max talk - if he wouldnt have confessed that it didnt seem quite - REAL.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

By StarBox
05-08-2001, 06:22 PM
Redhawk wrote:

Just a few things I noticed:
Max's hair was different again for parts of this ep. His bangs were swept back.

*********************************************
WOW!!!!!!!!! Redhawk - I had heard a speculation that there was a "trigger" that might show when a mindwarp was occurring. I have been looking for clues in the lighting and etc - but I do believe you may have just stumbled on it!
Anyone feel up to rewatching HOM-BIY and keeping track of the scenes where Max has swept back bangs???
Michael has swept back bangs at times too - doesnt he..............

SO, about Alex... can we assume that getting the Thai food was the stimulus for him remembering? He had Thai food constantly at UNM and then when he is home in Roswell and orders it, he seems to snap. hmm....

*********************************************
Another WOW! Great observation.

Re: Leanna - the idea hadnt even occurred to me that she might be be good or Serena-related - but I suppose she could be............
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I still kind of think she is Lonnie - it just seems tooooo convenient that Lonnie says she can get home while Alex is on his "decoding" mission. But - who lnows! It does seem awfully convenient - the way they find all the stuff.
And yes - it SCREAMS "set up"

The Nelly Futuro song went "I dont know where my home is. I dont know where my soul is"

Tasfya - great compare/contrast. Max seemed so disturbed by the Tex - it definately didnt seem to "cement" any "bond" between them. I wonder if Isabel would have let Max talk - if he wouldnt have confessed that it didnt seem quite - REAL.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

By StarBox
05-08-2001, 06:28 PM
Redhawk wrote:

Just a few things I noticed:
Max's hair was different again for parts of this ep. His bangs were swept back.

*********************************************
WOW!!!!!!!!! Redhawk - I had heard a speculation that there was a "trigger" that might show when a mindwarp was occurring. I have been looking for clues in the lighting and etc - but I do believe you may have just stumbled on it!
Anyone feel up to rewatching HOM-BIY and keeping track of the scenes where Max has swept back bangs???
Michael has swept back bangs at times too - doesnt he..............

SO, about Alex... can we assume that getting the Thai food was the stimulus for him remembering? He had Thai food constantly at UNM and then when he is home in Roswell and orders it, he seems to snap. hmm....

*********************************************
Another WOW! Great observation.

Re: Leanna - the idea hadnt even occurred to me that she might be be good or Serena-related - but I suppose she could be............
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I still kind of think she is Lonnie - it just seems tooooo convenient that Lonnie says she can get home while Alex is on his "decoding" mission. But - who lnows! It does seem awfully convenient - the way they find all the stuff.
And yes - it SCREAMS "set up"

The Nelly Futuro song went "I dont know where my home is. I dont know where my soul is"

Tasfya - great compare/contrast. Max seemed so disturbed by the Tex - it definately didnt seem to "cement" any "bond" between them. I wonder if Isabel would have let Max talk - if he wouldnt have confessed that it didnt seem quite - REAL.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

By Crazy4Roswell16
05-08-2001, 06:34 PM
OH WOW!!! I did not see that!! the pods GLOWED?

Well it could just signify that Max and T*** did it. *sigh* Like we NEED a reminder. It's imprinted on my brain for like all eternity. I'm still pissed. ANybody else?

By StarBox
05-08-2001, 06:57 PM
Redhawk wrote:

Just a few things I noticed:
Max's hair was different again for parts of this ep. His bangs were swept back.

*********************************************
WOW!!!!!!!!! Redhawk - I had heard a speculation that there was a "trigger" that might show when a mindwarp was occurring. I have been looking for clues in the lighting and etc - but I do believe you may have just stumbled on it!
Anyone feel up to rewatching HOM-BIY and keeping track of the scenes where Max has swept back bangs???
Michael has swept back bangs at times too - doesnt he..............

SO, about Alex... can we assume that getting the Thai food was the stimulus for him remembering? He had Thai food constantly at UNM and then when he is home in Roswell and orders it, he seems to snap. hmm....

*********************************************
Another WOW! Great observation.

Re: Leanna - the idea hadnt even occurred to me that she might be be good or Serena-related - but I suppose she could be............
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I still kind of think she is Lonnie - it just seems tooooo convenient that Lonnie says she can get home while Alex is on his "decoding" mission. But - who lnows! It does seem awfully convenient - the way they find all the stuff.
And yes - it SCREAMS "set up"

The Nelly Futuro song went "I dont know where my home is. I dont know where my soul is"

Tasfya - great compare/contrast. Max seemed so disturbed by the Tex - it definately didnt seem to "cement" any "bond" between them. I wonder if Isabel would have let Max talk - if he wouldnt have confessed that it didnt seem quite - REAL.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

By StarBox
05-08-2001, 07:10 PM
Redhawk wrote:

Just a few things I noticed:
Max's hair was different again for parts of this ep. His bangs were swept back.

*********************************************
WOW!!!!!!!!! Redhawk - I had heard a speculation that there was a "trigger" that might show when a mindwarp was occurring. I have been looking for clues in the lighting and etc - but I do believe you may have just stumbled on it!
Anyone feel up to rewatching HOM-BIY and keeping track of the scenes where Max has swept back bangs???
Michael has swept back bangs at times too - doesnt he..............

SO, about Alex... can we assume that getting the Thai food was the stimulus for him remembering? He had Thai food constantly at UNM and then when he is home in Roswell and orders it, he seems to snap. hmm....

*********************************************
Another WOW! Great observation.

Re: Leanna - the idea hadnt even occurred to me that she might be be good or Serena-related - but I suppose she could be............
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I still kind of think she is Lonnie - it just seems tooooo convenient that Lonnie says she can get home while Alex is on his "decoding" mission. But - who lnows! It does seem awfully convenient - the way they find all the stuff.
And yes - it SCREAMS "set up"

The Nelly Futuro song went "I dont know where my home is. I dont know where my soul is"

Tasfya - great compare/contrast. Max seemed so disturbed by the Tex - it definately didnt seem to "cement" any "bond" between them. I wonder if Isabel would have let Max talk - if he wouldnt have confessed that it didnt seem quite - REAL.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

By Zero
05-08-2001, 09:57 PM
New thread at http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/007476.html
See you there!
Mods, okay to close now.

By Rooney
05-08-2001, 10:12 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by StarBox:

Which brings us to.................Leanna and the way its all fitting together.
Leanna = Lonnie - I am so sure of it. Lonnie told Nikolas she had cards she wasnt showing and could get home with or without him. At this point - ALEX WAS ALREADY IN "SWEDEN" - ALEX was her "card"!!!!!!! He was in Las Cruces - in robot-mindwarp mode - translating the destiny book.
Tess gets Max to believe he has to go home - that he has to "translate" the destiny book - all the time she (and Lonnie) know that they HAVE THE TRANSLATION.

Starbox: While I agree that Lonnie's card is Alex. Max was in New York over Thanksgiving and Alex didn't go to Sweden until December 6th (if I remember correctly) I got that date by GraceKel the application form.

Rooney

By Rooney
05-08-2001, 10:37 PM
Tasyfa:

I really loved your explanation of why Max was so horrible to Liz at the Valenti's. The was the one time we saw Max passionate in that episode even though it was in anger.

Rooney

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