There is never a dull moment on this thread - especially recently! We appreciate the new episodes to digest - especially with the refocus on Liz's importance to the storyline! (Thank you JK and RM! ) Even though Heart of Mine, Cry Your Name, It's Too Late & It's Too Bad and Baby It's You have many inducing scenes, and future episodes look to provide even more conflict in the Max and Liz relationship, we have been provided tons of stuff to chat about and dissect! !! Plus - we have seen so many newbies joining into the discussion - which is wonderful!!

Feedback is always welcome! Just PM me. I will continue to let you know when I up-date the Introduction so you can head over there to read the new information when I add it in.

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Background

Basic Thesis

Just a reminder - Our basic thesis is that LIZ IS AN IMPORTANT AND ESSENTIAL ELEMENT TO THE ALIEN MYTHOLOGY!

What is Subject for Discussion?

Liz's importance to the pod squad - and the survival of the human race for that matter - and theories concerning the beings - especially Max - and mysteries swirling around Liz - are what we discuss. So - feel free to join on in, or just lurk! And don't worry about going off on a tangent - they ALL tend to lead back to Liz's importance! (Especially lately!) We are an optimistic and friendly - though seriously anal retentive - group! So - dive in, and join the fun!! But remember - NO SPOILERS! We want everyone to feel welcome!

Liz is Important - The Liz/Max Connection

Consequence of the Connection - the Change?

Origin of the Connection - Where is Liz from, really?

Granolith - How does it fit in?

Destiny - Liz and Max!

Follow Your Heart

Symbolism - WE Do Not Ignore Anything!

Chakras

Einstein's Light Cone

Chariots of Fire - Liz's Necklace in VLV

The "Bride" - will the real one please stand up!

The Books - WHY Doesn't anyone read these things?

The Catalyst - Liz!

Vision Quest - How does Liz fit in?

Time Travel - "Run, Lola, Run"

Hero Journey - Liz's Path

I wanted to add that I believe the events of the last few episodes (especially, HOM, CYN and ITL&ITB) play right into Liz's Hero Journey!

Grandma Claudia - the first connection?

I just wanted to add here that many of us believe that that fact that the necklace Liz wore to the Prom had been Grandma Claudia's is VERY SIGNIFICANT! Finally, a tie into GC, her Native American connection and Season 1! Now - if we could only figure out "what" the necklace was! Maybe this was a foreshadowing that GC will be the connection to the aliens that we always thought she was/is! And the computer guys from the UNM commenting that the alien symbols look Native American in origin - with Michael getting Season 1 flashbacks - was GREAT!

Lifebonds vs. Soulmates

Don't let the current state of affairs (pun intended!) concern you - Liz and Max are soulmates and lifebond! The Truth Is Out There! And Liz will find it! (Even Maria agrees with that!) The only concern now - is will she find it in time!

Sheila Hubble - Eerie resemblance to Liz! - What's the connection?

Venus - Liz's mythical connection to the stars!

Numbers - It all adds up to Liz and Max!

Numbers keep cropping up that seem to fall into our 2, 3, 4, 5 groupings. Like the bus that Liz misses is 33_5, the bowling alley lane is 32, Max remembers 3 moons, Alex's funeral and the concert is on 5/5 and the song at the end of Cry Your Name mentions the number 3! Also, the truck driver had 1 drink, 3 hours before! There is no way that this is just a coincidence! I will try to add as many of the numbers caught to the Intro that I can - but let's just say that there has to be a meaning to the reoccurrence of the numbers - especially 5! Liz's cell number is 505-555-0125! (and as Qfanny so intelligently pointed out .125 =1/8th - Ummm...! In BIY - Iz runs "5 or 6" miles now? And "Ray" was seen by his roommate at 4 am, they were the only 2 people around and they were only 5 feet away from each other. Alex's dorm at UNM was in "Quad 4."

Cave Map Symbols - All signs lead to Liz?

Skins - What lies below the surface?

We keep wondering where Nicko disappeared to - and Lonnie, Rath and Ava for that matter. Is it just a matter of time before Kivar shows up? Maybe - with Alex's death - he already has?? Ummm....! Many of us think that Tess is up to her "old" tricks of mindwarping - or mind control as Liz so aptly asks about - but is Tess acting alone?? Most of us think not!

Shapeshifters - Are there more than one?

Remember - Harding and Nasedo and Tic Tac are NOT all one and the same shapeshifter! I still believe that Tic Tac is out there watching over Liz!

Handholding - the symbol of the V constellation

Mythology!

Dates

Dates seem to be of extreme interest to those on this thread. So, follow the link to a rundown of dates as I've been able to gather them from episodes, official sites and factual research. If you find a date I've missed or see one that is wrong - PM me with the change and where you got your information! I'm always looking for new dates!

New dates added include:

1994 - Date the building in the Leanna and Alex picture was torn down (ITLITB)
12/9/2000 - Alex's Departure for Sweden (ITLITB)
1/16/2001 - Date Leanna computer file/document created by Alex (ITLITB)
1/18/2001 - Date Alex and Leanna were supposed to be traveling to the Baltic Islands - where the mysterious building supposedly existed (ITLITB)
1/28/2001 - Alex's Return from Sweden date (ITLITB)
4/27/2001 - Roswell Prom & Date Liz begins to start writing in her Journal again. (Heart of Mine)
5/3/2001 - Alex is killed. (Cry Your Name)
5/4/2001 - Kyle's Birthday (18th?) (Cry Your Name)
5/5/2001 - Alex Whitman's funeral (Cry Your Name)

In Summary

Finally, (I always have to add this - if anyone from the production staff, crew, UPN or THE WB reads this or the Intro), WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LIZ/MAX CONNECTION IS CRITICAL TO THE SHOW, AND THAT TOGETHER MAX AND LIZ MAKE AN INCREDIBLE FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!! Even Ron Moore stated in the commentary for Ask Not that the "Max and Liz relationship is so strong and so central to the entire series!"

And as to the Season 3 rumors - this is a WONDERFUL show, with the potential to be another "X-files" with intimate relationships if done right! SO - please don't let it go!! Not only will you lose an incredible show, but one of the best fan bases around!

A couple of general "rules" - NO SPOILERS (even asides about spoilers are not allowed - I can't emphasize this enough as we move towards the season finale), but anything "aired" is subject to discussion, including coming attractions/preview and things on the Silverhandprint site. Pictures are welcome, as is deleted dialog from posted scripts of shows that have been aired and commentary by writers/producers. If you know what a preview "really means" due to spoilers, please DON'T tell us - let us speculate - we will find out soon enough! Also, no discussion of the new book "Loose Ends" until AFTER the season is over - it is spoilerish! Thanks!

As Alex - true and loyal friend to Liz - said - "Gripa det dagen" (seize the day)! Liz will find the TRUTH and avenge his death!

Zero
I Shall Believe!!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz can find it, and save the Pod Squad!)

Here is the link to the full gallery - please feel free to copy the images and post them anytime you need to: http://ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/gallery.htm

The most compelling visual evidence of Liz's mythology and connection to Max is the fact that when they come together - they often form the symbol on the orb found in Sexual Healing:

Max kneeling before his TRUE love
No mind control needed!

In ITLAITB I noticed two ROOSTERS on Amy Deluca's wall (there is a set of two behind the front door) - in BIY Max has a HUGE rooster in his house:


Could the roosters symbolize BETRAYAL? Remember the story of Peter - who is told that although he professes loyalty - he will betray Christ THREE times before the cock crows?????
Here we have THREE roosters - and we have a theme of Run Lola Run - history repeating THREE times (She cries your name - three tmes the same) Is there someone close to Max who is betraying him??? And doesnt this fit well with the "wake up" theme - since roosters crow in the MORNING - signialing us to WAKE UP.

Other BIY screencaps - the WINDMILL - this repeated ALL the time - but what does it mean????

Izabel reaching out her hand to Max in the alley - look at the placement of the FULL MOON behind her hand - this whole final scene feels mindwarpy/dreamwalky to me.

Screencaps are from many places - thanks to www.crashdown.com - also a BIG thanks REDHAWK, PROVENCE and www.theddd.com, www.crashdown.com, and Reggie all who have provided custom made screencaps and animations for us!

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

Tasyfa, ITA on Max losing it with Liz. How well-equipped we are to hurt the ones we most love!

Not sure who posted the idea about this ep being Katims' Revenge on the Dreamers, but I do think there is a little bit of anger/rush-to-finish-because-we're-cancelled-because-hybrid-chronicles-sucked-because-the-scifi-budget-sucked. I remember about 25 years ago painting a realistic landscape in oils when the owner of the property where I was camping said I had to leave. I 'finished' it by painting wavy lines in the lake and giving it to some people who had been coveting it. That was very immature of me, though, and unprofessional, and I think Katims is way beyond that. But there might be a little of those kinds of feelings showing through in the final plot lines.

quote: Originally posted by Rooney:

posted by StarBox:

Which brings us to.................Leanna and the way its all fitting together.
Leanna = Lonnie - I am so sure of it. Lonnie told Nikolas she had cards she wasnt showing and could get home with or without him. At this point - ALEX WAS ALREADY IN "SWEDEN" - ALEX was her "card"!!!!!!! He was in Las Cruces - in robot-mindwarp mode - translating the destiny book.
Tess gets Max to believe he has to go home - that he has to "translate" the destiny book - all the time she (and Lonnie) know that they HAVE THE TRANSLATION.

Starbox: While I agree that Lonnie's card is Alex. Max was in New York over Thanksgiving and Alex didn't go to Sweden until December 6th (if I remember correctly) I got that date by GraceKel the application form.

Hmmm...just barely enough time for Lonnie to play her cards.

Alex's alias was "Ray." In the books "Ray" was a Nicer cross between Nasedo and Milton. More importantly, book-Ray was part of the Collective Consciousness of the home planet (implying his mind was not his own). So, about the binary code: I remember last summer driving my car to my summer job and missing my exit because I was writing Javascript in my mind. Could Alex have been doing some 'computing' and it sort of slipped out as a signature?
I think a key line last week was, "why does everything have to be a lie." Like he was thinking he was doing something to help Isabel find her planet, but the dudes pulling the strings had a Kvarian agenda.

Finally was able to compose myself and rewatch “Baby It’s You” – twice! Once with CC on. I realize that much has been pointed out, but I’m going to list my findings, and if it is a repeat, then it just goes to show you great minds think alike!

When Max wakes up the following lyrics are playing:
“I want to hold the hand inside you
take the breathe that’s true
I look you and see nothing
Colors your eyes with what’s not there
Fade into you
Strange you never knew
Fade into you
I think it’s strange you never knew”

Not very romantic – and when he pulls Tess towards him, he begins to look nauseous!

Keep in mind that a lot of this beginning is supposed to have happened the night that Liz was supposed to have left for Sweden – so I find it unusual that Max never asks her why she is “still” in Roswell!

When Max and Tess arrive at the Valenti’s notice that the camera frames Max in the diamond shaped window before they come into the house. Later – when Liz comes to talk to Tess – the camera clearly frames her in the same diamond shape! Diamonds are found throughout the episode! Valenti’s bathrobe has diamonds or triangle shapes. Mikey G’s shirt has diamond shapes. Alex’s picture on the fence is shown through the diamond shaped fence. Then there is the alien motion detecting bomb in the pyramid shape!

I loved how Liz went to Maria for help! She acknowledged she needed help! They make a good team, as well as great friends! A stark contrast to the relationship of the other two female leads – Iz and Tess - Iz is very callous towards Tess. Rightfully so – but still it stands out as a contrast to me.

I know everyone is staying it is all a mindwarp – or as Liz so aptly brings up – possibly mind control, but I’m not completely convinced, though I do see evidence of it here and there. All I can say is “that is one H#@* of a mindwarp going on, and Tess may be powerful, but she isn’t that powerful – so someone has to be involved!” One clue is Max’s confession to Iz that “he is feeling a little weird about [Tess] right now.” He seemed so confused right now – but is it just that he is suffering from “buyer’s remorse” or truly a physical reaction to the mind control many believe he is under??

The sign behind Tess when she is waiting for Max to arrive at school states “Is this you?” with a picture of someone who is having trouble picking up a weight – thus, out of shape.

Someone mentioned they found the handholding strange. I found it symbolic. The intertwining of fingers is the most intimate of handholds to me. The fact that Max initiated it conveys his commitment to being with Tess – doubts or not – and to do it so publicly is significant in my mind. Handholding has always had significance before – and here I believe it does too – it signifies that Tess is winning the battle to control Max!

Numbers! Iz is running 5 or 6 miles now. Ray’s roommate ran into him at 4 am. They were the only 2 people around, and they were only 5 feet away from each other. Alex’s dorm was in “Quad 4.” (Boy – I wish my dorm in college was so nice! )

Kyle was totally hilarious together with Iz in this episode. I was so caught up with the whole M/T crap, that I did not appreciate Kyle and Iz as I did on the second viewing! Kyle had the best line in the show: “You Aliens are the MOST PATHETIC group of people I’ve ever met!” ITA! Couldn’t have said it better myself!

Any significance to Unicorns? I know they are mythical – but I thought it was an interesting thing for the Playboy Playmate to love.

Alex’s e-mail address was whitsbassist@yahoo.com

Where were Max and Tess sitting in the awkward scene where she tells him she is preggers!? It was totally unfamiliar – looked like they were near a pier?? And Max was definitely NOT a happy camper! I guess that is what happens when you let your “power source” lead you.

Max was a total Jerk to Liz at the Valenti’s – but I also thought it was weird how Tess came to her defense. I guess I’m too suspicious of Tess. This was the one scene where Max was definitely NOT Max to me. So – this supported all the mindwarp theories, but it is still going to take some explaining how such an all consuming mindwarp has taken over Max! If I was Liz – I wouldn’t go near Max until I knew everything that was going on! She looked sooooo SAD to me in that scene – like she just wanted to get away from Max! And the entire watching “Gladiator” statement was strange since they were ALL together at the Crashdown when Valenti came by with the bad news. Now I agree with Nemo that the crash could have happened earlier in the day – before they all gathered at the Crashdown, but the entire exchange was strange to me, too! Please – least we protest TOO much – interesting that it is MAX who comes up with the theory that Tess was involved in Alex’s death! What if she really was?!

Grace Kel – sorry, I did not mean to ignore you – But I did think it was interesting that Alex went to UNM to decipher the Alien book which is where Doug Shellow came from – studying ancient languages!

I thought it was interesting that Mikey G stated that “Max and Liz are at war!” Isn’t that extreme! Maybe not – given the circumstances.

I know that someone already mentioned this – but I too noticed that Iz’s picture was not next to Max’s in the yearbook. Bad CHAD!

The entire talk about Max and Tess doing the beast with two backs was a bit much for me – did we really need to know about the hour long orgasm? As Mikey G appropriately stated: “Holy Crap!” And I too wonder about Nasedo – who told them virtually nothing about anything – managed to slip in the fact that the alien gestation period is only 1 month! And isn’t it strange that the gestation period in-uterus is 1 month, but in-pod it is 40+ years! Umm……?

The “baby’s” handprint on Tess’ stomach was way too big for a baby the size of one that would fit in Tess tiny stomach – I think someone else pointed this out. But the entire conception, etc. is SO suspect. I do NOT believe she is actually pregnant! This I do Believe is a mindwarp! Then entire atmosphere poisoning the fetus – as I pointed out in my earlier post – is ridiculous! The only contact the fetus has with the atmosphere is through it’s mother – in this case Tess! If it is real, and it is being poisoned, then it is being poisoned by Tess! Oh – how convenient!

Also – didn’t the Alien Book look in bad shape?

Nellie Furtado’s song has interesting words:
“…Changing, …though my love is rare, though my love is true, I don’t know where my SOUL is, I don’t know where my HOME is, your faith in me ….:

There was a sign on-campus for a fraternity – Delta Sigma Pi. Now this could just be set dressing, but the Greek letters have some significance. Delta is the triangle – the symbol for Change in math and science. Sigma is the same symbol used to represent “the sum of” in math. Pi is a symbol used through out formulas in math and science. I’m sure Nemo or others out there can expand on the significance of these Greek symbols – but I just wanted to point them out since they were so obvious!

As I pointed out earlier in a post – the scene of binary symbols that Ray was supposedly decoding was actually the Matrix screen saver! I guess they never thought we would notice! Opps! But is this another clue to the “virtual reality” that Max seems to be caught up in right now.

I don’t know what to make of the entire Leanna/Jennifer Coleman character! Friend or Foe?? From my point of view she seems to be a Foe – but how does she fit in, and why the elaborate deception with the “Sweden” cover?? And how did she or Alex get a copy of the book if someone like Tess wasn’t involved? Alex definitely sounds like he was operating in an “altered” state while at the UNM – and Thai food was some kind of trigger that reawakened that state on the day he died. But why Alex? How did he get chosen and involved? Also, Jennifer seemed to be living like a “normal” student, with a roommate and running Track! (Those who know that I help coach kids’ Track and Cross Country know that is one in Jennifer’s column for me! ) Why didn’t Liz and Mikey G get her home address way they were at it. If they are going to investigate her – follow it ALLLLLLL the way through PLEASE!! Alex obviously was able to be in a state of mind that allowed him to send “typical” Alex e-mails to friends and family, but … LOTS OF QUESTIONS!

Thought how Tess just managed to bring up “going home” was quite clever! She is the tricky one!

for Liz who stood up to Mikey G and told him he “CAN’T TELL HER WHAT TO DO!” You go girl! When are these people going to appreciate what Liz and Maria have done for them?!? I did seem to get a sense of connection between Mikey G and Liz when he destroyed the alien bomb. I also thought this was the moment that Mikey G finally realized that this was ALL alien connected – and Liz had been right all along!

Was the vacant house a trap? It is hard to believe it wasn’t! And I can not believe that the aliens are taking the print-out as gospel without any questioning – especially given the circumstances under which is was gotten. THEY ARE PATHETIC – and stupid, too!

The crystal is white, and I believe that the one in TEOTW was red – so, I believe they are different crystals. Too convenient that it just HAPPENED to be sitting there. I smell a rat, and a HUGE trap!

I think everyone has covered the lame use of a pregnancy to get Max to do Tess’ bidding – it is all so suspect! The heart with the arrow through it was again one of Tess’ typical drawings.

Okay – sweaty Tess is just as inducing as non-sweaty Tess. Who writes these lines for her?? “You’re the one person I know I can count on in this world. I have faith in you Max. I always have.” Okay – I could interpret this in many ways reading between the lines – so her goes – “You’re the one person I know I can count on in this world to act like a complete fool, and do whatever I trick you into doing! Did I mention that I have friends from another world that are helping me pull the wool over your eyes? I have faith in you Max to act like a Jerk and be totally gullible! I always have – since I’ve been jerking you around since day one – and you have yet to catch on!”

Okay – was I the only one that thought that it was a metaphor that Max has his big melt-down tearing about the Trash – another common name used for Tess on the boards?? I just thought it was interesting that they used that particular item to cause him to fall apart! (BTW – Has anyone mentioned RECYCLING to the Evans family! )

So why the big emphasis on the baby being a “boy” – as a women in a world where there are still cultures that practice infanticide of girls solely because of their gender – I find the emphasis on the baby’s gender – and the fact that it is a boy – insulting and disturbing! I know some will say that the boy would be the direct heir of the King – but so would a girl (look at England’s line of succession as an example) – unless Max and Tess know something about Antar society that we don’t! I just found this entire discussion – even Iz mentioned it – disturbing!

I agree with Zara and others who found a connection between the Robert Frost poem and the snow at the end. I see it as a foreshadowing of foreboding!

Max: “I feel so irresponsible and stupid!” – Well Max – maybe that is because you were and are! Okay – I’m being sooo hard on Max – especially if he is the subject of a major mindwarp as most of you seem to think he is. BUT EVEN IF HE IS – the damage to his relationship with Liz is SO GREAT that is hard to believe that it can all be dealt with and a romantic reconciliation can occur with only one real episode left! As I’ve said before – I hate this corner the writers have painted themselves into – with so little time to resolve it. I sure hope that Off the Menu has been re-edited to make it fit into what is going on! Talk about trying to destroy a show!

I remember being disappointed in how “Relativity” ended – another of JK’s shows that I loved – though hated the ultimate cliffhanger ending of the final show! If we don’t get a Season 3, I’m convinced that I’m going to be left with this awful taste in my mouth about this show I have dedicated so much time to. I don’t know if I will ever be able to watch another JK production if that happens because regardless of how good the “journey” has been – the ultimate result sometimes doesn’t make it worth it! I pray that doesn’t happen here!

Zero
I Shall Believe! (I'm back to believing again - call me crazy!)
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz can find it!)

And Zero, the emphasis on it being a boy would be that it could go back and be King on Antar so Max & Liz could eventually live happily ever after. Tess & baby would be like King Solomon and his mom (Max as David). Liz would be like Abigail.

quote: Any significance to Unicorns? I know they are mythical – but I thought it was an interesting thing for the Playboy Playmate to love.Maybe more phallic imagery?

quote: There was a sign on-campus for a fraternity – Delta Sigma Pi. Now this could just be set dressing, but the Greek letters have some significance. Delta is the triangle – the symbol for Change in math and science. Sigma is the same symbol used to represent “the sum of” in math. Pi is a symbol used through out formulas in math and science....Capital Pi represents a product as Sigma does a sum.

quote: I don’t know what to make of the entire Leanna/Jennifer Coleman character....Remember the cyclotron on this same campus was in the Coleman building. Hmmm.

quote: Okay – was I the only one that thought that it was a metaphor that Max has his big melt-down tearing about the Trash – another common name used for Tess on the boards?? I just thought it was interesting that they used that particular item to cause him to fall apart!Interesting.
BTW, GraceKel, the writers haven't forgotten your windmill -- it was there again at the end of this scene.

As an alumni of NMSU, I can say with absolute certainty, that neither the two shall meet. As the information is pretty public, I wonder if there is some significance to the UNM reference all of the time, or if it is indeed, artist license??

I really enjoyed Kyle in this episode. He actually reminded me more of his "old" self, rather than the introspective-Buddha-boy-Kyle.

I have to agree with (I'm sorry, someone mentioned it in the last thread and I can't remember!) that this seems to be a repeat of what may have happened in their previous history -- the team is divided and it has everything to do with Max and Tess's relationship. Max, FOCUS!!!

And, oy, Michael is so Dashing!!!

mako !!

My VCR was misprogrammed (alright, I did it) and I was not able to watch "It's too..."

Would someone, anyone be interested in sending me a copy??? I will of course pay for postage!!

Ack!
mako

Secondly, I can't believe some of you still doubt the amount of mindwarping going on - and no, she's not doing it alone. Trust me! BIY had mindwarp all over it. Max's ever-changing hairdo,Kyle's comment about Tess's alibi(watch Liz bring this up again)& Max not remembering Liz's non-trip. There's probably more.

As for an hour not being enough to tie everything up: from what I've read about Departure I can tell you more will be solved than you think. And it's not a quick, easy solution either.

In regard to this possibly being it for Roswell: It ain't happening! #1. Surely UPN is smart enough to see this is a goldmine - especially if they let J. Frakes & JK have complete control like they should've had this season. Everyone forgets: JK didn't hire these crappy writers, the WB did.

In case the 10,000+ bottles of hot sause doesn't persuade UPN to pick it up, I'm prepared to write the "Further Adventures of the Pod Squad" myself. I'm building a website now called www.4everunforsaken.homestead.com to post these stories on. It won't be as good as watching Roswell but it will be better than nothing. I'm hoping to have it completed soon. Come on over in about a month.

So did any one else get a side ache from watching BIY? I was laughing at all the Max and Tess scenes, and yes, I'm sorry, even when he said the baby was dying. Wow Tess how do you stay so slim carrying a child that size?
I think Tess was laughing right along with me, she must be thinking what an idiot Max is for buying into all her mind crap. I also thought when Tess was looking in the mirror that she was thinking how easy it was to fool Max. She was padding herself on the back because she had just pulled off the ultimate mindrape/warp and she is now ready to show her pregnancy card.

Ok here are a few things I noticed.

Their was a strainer over Max's "head" in the kitchen scene with Iz. It's the only thing I could see hanging so I thought it must be a clue, plus he is talking about the Tex. What do you use a strainer for? To remove by filtering. Could this be how the mindrape is being done, by filtering Max's mermories and then warping in what Tess wants? I thought it was a big clue when Liz called it MINDCONTROL. Tess is controling Max's mind with her entire arsenal. Maybe Nicko gave her some lessons or is helping her. Max blew up at Liz because his momories of her are confusing him, (who knows what Tess put in and what she took out?) his mind is telling him to hate Liz and his heart continues to love her. I think all Liz needs to do is give him a long passionate kiss and show him her memories, that should snap him out of it.

We are now watching the flip side of Roswell. The college in Las Cruces is NMSU and the college in Albuquerque is UNM. Why else would they switch the two collages? Michael is acting like Max and Max is with Tess and rejects Liz. Iz hates Max. I'm not Polar but Mikey G and Liz did lock eyes a few times. Twilight Zone anyone.

When Kyle is pulling the fire alarm you can see a number 1 on the wall? Not sure what this could mean. Anyone?

I have a few more things I noticed but I'll save it, this post is long enough and I'm turning in.

Evid

Nemo--you are right the COLEMAN building I had forgotten LOL, yes I did notice the WINDMILLS still showing, it must have some significance afterall--I am glad to see this.

Zero--nice post, hard episode to watch isn't it for our dreamer hearts but after viewing several times I came away totally with the fact that Max is being played here and Jason Behrs great acting and uncomfortable movements with Tess were VERY TELLING I think that all is not right.
As for the crystal--in EOTW the crystal is clear color til inserted into the granlith and then becomes RED--so I think it could be the same crystal still but we shall have to see.
Few more observations:
in WipeOut Nicholas wears RED and BLACK--in Max in the City--also wears Red and Black shirt---Chess CLub sign is featured in Red and Black--signs of manipulations---now go back to HOM eppy, when Maria and Liz break into Michaels apartment a game of CHECKERS(black and red??) on the counter???? Also Juanita and the dancing lessons, when they go to Juanitas address they show on her sofa BLACK and RED PILLOWS.

Tasyfa--loved your compare and contrast, I must say I agree with this----in many ways this episode was disturbing and I thought I would absolutely hate it but somehow I think they managed to keep my faith by showing that something is rotten in Roswell LOL!!!!

Do I think Tess is acting alone---No I do not!!!

Re Alex:
It's possible that Alex sacrificed himself for the people he loved (Iz, Maria, Liz...) by taking on the assignment of translating the book with Serena. Perhaps it's something that had to be done in order to save the scooby gang. He may have known it would cost him his life, kind of like a suicide mission. Very strong in valor...

Liz has her finger on the pulse asking Tess about mind control. (I know what you're doing, and I want you to know it.) Tess' kitchen collapse was after Liz let her know she was onto her. It's no wonder tess was in the bed sweating and sleeping - she was exhausted from all that mind warping. I say we fire up the granolyth and shove her inside. Send her back to Khivar with her fake baby.

Sorry to bring it up, but didn't the electrical current Tex talk send up a red flag with SYNTHETIC written all over it? It sounds inorganic. I think it was a clue that either the Tex or the Tess isn't real. Anyway, I think we can rest assured, if TPTB had hope for another season it would not include a toddler in the cast. Baby is fake...

I'm not bothered so much by the discussion of the baby being a boy. I am
offended that the storyline looks like it's showing double standards - okay for Max and Liz to be soulmates bonded for eternity but he can still have wild hot alien sex with Tess, while Liz is held to the standard of purity, knowledge, and Virginity. Don't ignore all the Marian imagery...

An observation: I was looking at the silverhandprint.com last night - the floating bomb in the house is shaped like the pryamid that symbolizes the UFL.

C McCoy, I hope you're right about Departure. I'm really pretty easy to please. A big "a-HA" at the season finale would be gratifying!

Zara

Baby It's You
by Mack David & Burt Bacharach & Barney Williams

Lyrics as sung by the Shirelles:
Sha la-la-la laaa-ahhh, Sha la-la-la laaa-ahhh,
Sha-la-la-la-la, it's not the way you smile
That touched my heart
Sha-la-la-la-la, it's not the way you kiss
That tears me apart
Woh-oh, many-many nights roll by
I sit alone at home and cry over you
What can I do
I can't help myself, when baby it's you
Sha-la-la-la-la, baby it's you
You should hear what they say about you
Cheat, cheat, sha-la-la-la-la
They say, they say you never-never-never been true
Doesn't matter what they say
I know I'm gonna love you any ol' way
What can I do, when it's true
I don't want nobody-nobody, no
Baby it's you, sha-la-la-la-la
Baby it's you, sha-la-la-la-la
Woh-oh, many-many nights roll by
I sit alone at home and cry over you
What can I do
I can't help myself, 'cause baby it's you
Sha-la-la-la-la, baby it's you
Sha-la-la-la-la, don't leave me alone
Sha-la-la-la-la, come on home
Sha-la-la-la-la, baby it's you

This from goatie:
::"ick" face:: Kyle upon seeing Max and Tess
Alex says: Yeah, tell me about it. ::shudders::

He literally never left the dorm. Maria
Not before sundown. Dorm guy
Alex says: I know what you're thinking, but, wrong show, please try again.

By soma
"Do you remember what happened the next day?" - Isabel referring to the guinea pig death
Alex says: Yea, Kyle lent him Mr. Squishles.

Wait: Alex didn’t go to Sweden and he wasn’t here, so where was he? – Maria
Alex says: polishing up my resume, obviously.

Alien herpes? – Michael
Alex says: Michael, I’ve forgiven everything. That’s the best snark of the season!

My friend Dave has a theory that Alex killed himself because he knew he was the glue that kept the group together. I think Alex was the glue that kept the group together (exhibit #1—the group is split now that he is dead) but that the evil aliens knew that and are trying to split the group. Dave doesn’t think Tess is involved, but I do and I think it will be proved by Departure!

haha
Zara

On a lighter note, I thought another indication of Max's new low was the focus on the soles of his shoes during the "Tess let's rent" conversation. Remember how they were propped on the table so that the large bottoms of his feet were the focal point of the scene? The soles were filled with craters, (holes?). Is this a play on the word Sole/soul?

Or, I wondered if Max with his big-soled feet is Bigfoot the guinea pig? -HH

Image gallery will be up soon - Reggie made me some new caps - I even have that windmill GraceKel and Nemo!

Redhawk wrote:
Just a few things I noticed:
Max's hair was different again for parts of this ep. His bangs were swept back.

*********************************************
WOW!!!!!!!!! Redhawk - I have heard a speculation that there was a "trigger" that might show when a mindwarp/mindcontrol was occurring. I have been looking for clues in the lighting and etc - but I do believe you may have just stumbled on it!
Anyone feel up to rewatching HOM-BIY and keeping track of the scenes where Max has swept back bangs???
Michael has swept back bangs at times too - doesnt he..............

SO, about Alex... can we assume that getting the Thai food was the stimulus for him remembering? He had Thai food constantly at UNM and then when he is home in Roswell and orders it, he seems to snap. hmm....

*********************************************
Another WOW! Great observation.

Re: Leanna - the idea hadnt even occurred to me that she might be be good or Serena-related - but I suppose she could be............
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I still kind of think she is Lonnie - it just seems tooooo convenient that Lonnie says she can get home while Alex is on (or about to embark on..) his "decoding" mission. But - who knows! It does seem awfully convenient - the way they find all the stuff.
And yes - it all SCREAMS "set up"

Tasfya - great compare/contrast. Max seemed so disturbed by the Tex - it definately didnt seem to "cement" any "bond" between them. I wonder if Isabel would have let Max talk - if he wouldnt have confessed that it didnt seem quite - REAL. And I agree - the "hot electric feeling" stood out to me as sounding like the byproduct of a warp or extended mind control. BTW - thought it was HILARIOUS that Max couldnt bring himself to say "ORGASM". Perhaps he didnt have one?? He used the word "culmination" - possibly for more reasons than embarassment. Also - the hour long "floating" feeling. When I have had that "floating" feeling it has been the result of being drugged and it was NOT a good feeling. It feels like not having any control. Also - IS IT NOT SUSPICIOUS TO HIM THAT ALL THIS "TEX" DOESNT GIVE HIM FLASHES???????
Shouldnt he be "remembering" his past with Tess clearly after all this sexual contact? If it was - actual sexual contact - he would have flashed.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

I think Lonni's "hidden" card is Tess. I think that Tess and Ava were switched on purpose. It had even occured to me that maybe Nacedo was the dupes protector and "got to" the podsters first with Tess(the real Ava). If the dupes can trick Max into returning to their home planet then they could switch places with the royal four and return too. This whole Tess thing is a brilliant way to achieve this... maybe they even have help. What if Kivar is "controlling" Max and Tess is being used as a pawn. At this point in time she probably realizes what is really going on, but since her goal is to decieve to get home, she plays along. In which case the "watcher" could be their real protector or another sent to help. And of course it will be Liz to the rescue!

I am looking forward to the finale....and I sure hope that Wanda is right this time and UPN takes over Roswell. Who knows with last nights ratings looking good maybe WB won't cancel....

~Sheri

Also the strainer is on a hook, and I think there were other hooks in sight. Max is "on the hook" or someone has hooked him and mas made a utensil of him? Is that some further symbolism of Maria's photo of the instruments (I got a chill when she used that word) -- that M/M/I and Liz are being made instruments of someone's purpose?

The Chess Club sign has been pointed out a few times. I would add that the knobs on top of the Evans kitchen chairs look much like the chess symbol for pawns.

Quoting SHAPESHIFTER - QUOTE - The chamber containing your hybernation pods and the granolith has been hidden away from human settlement. It can only be accessed by the four of you. QUOTE

Is this true? If I recall well: Nacedo, Liz and Maria have been in the podchamber. Maria even in the Granilith chamber (behind the pod chamber?). Anyone else?
Does this imply that only the royal 4 are to go back home? No one else?
Elena

Edited to ask: How do I go back to thread 40 to read what I missed?
Elena

They are all very important to me.

Redhawk - it looks like the Leaving normal animation is not posting again - can you LMK how to fix it??? I may have a bad link in the address.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

Well, I feel it could go either way honestly. The Skins/Khivar might know Leanna is Serena (if she is Serena and Serena is a protector) or they might not. I guess I just found Leanna's seeming need to run away/hide rather odd if the Skins don't know about her (why would she run from Liz/Maria if she knew the Skins didn't know about her? Running away would almost make her look even more suspicious).

quote:Anyhow, I have to admit at this point I am beyond confused my brain is going in circles!! There are so many different ways this can play out, but the bottom line is, it's a set-up and something big is going to go down if the podsters try to use this translation to go home.

ITA about the confusion and set up I'm right there with you *trying* to figure out what the he** is going on in this story and being confused by many of the actions of the characters (some so damn moronic I REFUSE to believe particular characters are actually in their right minds). The set-up... I feel that's a HUGE given at this point. Things have simply been WAY to convenient and coming upon them WAY too quickly.

quote:I would be really surprised if the translation turns out to be real and accurate.

Well, in my opinion the translation does have the possibility of being "accurate"... just not "complete". As an interpreter/translater, however, I'm inclined to believe there is MUCH room for things to be LOST in translations. Particularly from an alien language/heiroglyps to ENGLISH! I'd find it kind of hard to believe something WASN'T lost in the translation... unless Alex somehow cracked some secret code of the book or some specific WAY this book needed to be translated. Like Alex found the formula to solve the *word problem* that was the Destiny Book or something. Plug the Book into this formula and voila... instant tranlation.

I do find it kind of amusing, however, regardless of whether or not this translation is fake... it STILL doesn't say "You must have hot alien sex and knock up your females in order to save us all." Just like the momogram NEVER said that (and of course, the reliability of that as well is often put into question).

quote:Or, even if the translation is accurate, it's being used to manipulate the podsters into getting Max back to Antar.

I could TOTALLY see this happening too. The podsters being told the TRUTH, but this truth being distorted for the Skins own means.

Zero: I exceedingly enjoyed your entire breakdown of BIY and ITA with just about every observation you made. I've never been much of a Max supporter, so I've probably been even harder on him then you're being. Even if this IS all some big old manipulation/mindwarp (hence an extreme violation on Max). However, these *visuals* and his actions (even if they are product of mindwarps) make it quite difficult to try and see Max in a *pleasant* light. Especially when we (the audience) KNOW he's SO WRONG to treat Liz the way he has been (Alex's death WAS alien related and she never slept with Kyle).

Melodious

Secondly, I can't believe some of you still doubt the amount of mindwarping going on - and no, she's not doing it alone. Trust me!

MC - Since I'm as guilty as the anyone - I want to apologize! I have been whinny and ranty lately! AND I promise to try to contain myself! One of the reasons I love this thread has been the positive tone it takes! SO - accept my apology - and I promise to be more positive - which is much easier when I keep my Myth Hat on! (Also - I do try to note when my "emotions" are taking over my analytical ability .) Oh - and I do accept that it may be a big Mindwarp and Mind Control - but it has to be bigger than Tess alone because it is so all consuming. I accept that - but I just want evidence! BUT I love that you are so confident, and that helps me too! Also - I'm keeping confident about a 3rd Season! I have to - I would be so sad if I lost my internet friends that I've made on this Thread! I'm hoping to meet some of you in person in LA in August! !

Star Box - Great pictures! Love the Rooster stuff! I also think Max should have gotten flashes with Tess - but I'm tending to agree with all of you that it was all a mindwarp. I like the "Bang" (as in Max's hair) theory! I wish I had time to go back and rewatch for it! ALso - the talk about "floating" reminded me of people who "die" and describe having an out-of-body experience floating above what is going on before being "revived." More evidence to convince me of the mindwarp and mind control!

Provence - Thanks for the screne cap of Liz framed by the diamond window at the Valenti's! As I pointed out earlier, Max is framed by the same window when he brings Tess back on the Morning after. I believe it is symbolic!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz - and Maria and Kyle - can find it!)

I know they start off the same, "You are the Royal Four...", but I haven't had a chance to go back to Destiny and watch that Mom-O-Gram. If so, then of course, there's two possibilities. It's real and this is confirmation that the Mom-O-Gram was NOT TVision OR it's fake and this is confirmation that the Mom-O-Gram WAS TVision (this one gets my vote ). (As all of you are going, of COURSE it has to be ONE of these senarios, Steph, duh! )

I'm confused about who I think Alex/Ray was when he was decoding. I just don't see "old Alex" as being this "I'm going to do it to save the world" type. I loved him, but let's face it - he was a bit creeped out by the stuff. Could Alex be caught in another dimension? Could he have been killed earlier in the season and taken over by Nick or Khivar and CYN was simply that "person" filling in the pieces?

Also, I know Max finds out about Liz and Kyle NOT sleeping together by the end of the season. At least, I read a JK interview a while ago stating that he would (of course, he may have changed his mind ), so how do you think that'll happen? We're certainly running out of time here! Gawd forbid, we do get the Big C ( ), do you think TPTB will simply leave the Chads as is? Gawd, I hope not!!!

Just wanted to me - ITA!!!

They are indeed "at war". However, I also felt that the line was perhaps *a little* extreme, but if it was, I think it was purposefully so... so we'd notice it.

I'm probably grabbing at straws here, but I can't help but think this might be a reference possibly to the alien past life and Max's "bad decisions" thereof. As all of us know, Liz was/is RIGHT to investigate Alex's death (it not only proved Alex's death was alien foul play but also discovered the translation to the Destiny Book). Max and Liz are/were "at war" - as Mikey G stated - because Max DID NOT (or refused to) believe Alex's death was alien related (although postBIY he MUST realize he was wrong to oppose Liz), as well as Max more than likely having lingering resentment to Liz for "sleeping with Kyle". We know, however, Max SHOULD HAVE BEEN supporting Liz all along, despite what he's seeing on the surface.

Perhaps in the past alien life, because of protoMax's BAD DECISION of who he should support - he chose to support the WRONG side - this is one of the MAJOR factors of the tragic outcome of the past lifetime? We know there was a faction of Skins that apparently DID/DO NOT support Kivar and wanted protoMichael to take over and seemingly STILL want Michael to take over (the Courtney Skins, who have apparently disappeared in this storyline). If protoMax had chosen to support this faction... would the alien life had ended differently? WHY didn't he support them? Simply his own convictions or was he also being influenced by "outside sources" as he seems to be in this current lifetime? A combo of both (amongst possibly other factors)? Who were/are these outside sources if they so profoundly influenced him? Nasedo(s)? Mom? His young bride?

Max and Liz are "at war" ... and Max is possibly choosing the WRONG side again. Max is choosing to be with Tess (or at least it appears that way) ... while he should be "choosing" Liz? Fighting WITH Liz, not against her.

Everyone remember Larek's line to Max in MITC? "It's a shame to see history repeating itself" (Larek ALMOST seemed to direct this line right at TESS imo). Could it be because Max is (seemingly) choosing his young bride AGAIN in this life that the Royals are all going to die again??

quote: The “baby’s” handprint on Tess’ stomach was way too big for a baby the size of one that would fit in Tess tiny stomach – I think someone else pointed this out.

Every time I even look at a screencap from this scene I'm LMAO. Doesn't take a genius to realize a handprint THAT big would be coming from a baby of a size that most definitely WOULD NOT fit in Tess' current flat belly. There is absolutely NO WAY the baby could be THAT developed and Tess NOT show at all. Unless there's some stipulation in alien/human hybrid females that basically ALL the abdominal organs DISAPPEAR in light of the nature of their seeming lightening fast pregnancies. Not likely. Although I suppose I shouldn't judge... this whole *sex in the evening, pregnant in the morning* stuff is a miracle in and of itself... perhaps Tess is pregnant with the next Messiah?? ...

quote: Nellie Furtado’s song has interesting words:
“…Changing, …though my love is rare, though my love is true, I don’t know where my SOUL is, I don’t know where my HOME is, your faith in me ….

Can you say, Max and Liz song?? I can!

quote: for Liz who stood up to Mikey G and told him he “CAN’T TELL HER WHAT TO DO!” You go girl!

I also found this kind of funny considering my belief (which I'm sure *several*, if not all of you, share as Liz Mythers/RBIs) that Liz is Max's TRUE and ONLY QUEEN. Michael CAN'T order Liz around because she OUTRANKS him!

quote:I did seem to get a sense of connection between Mikey G and Liz when he destroyed the alien bomb. I also thought this was the moment that Mikey G finally realized that this was ALL alien connected – and Liz had been right all along!

More paranoia from Mel... and I know I'm probably alone in this theory, but due to my last statement (Liz being Max's true and only Queen). I almost got the vibe from Michael - since he appeared in Las Cruces (I thought it was strange he eventually showed up there at all, despite what he said to Maria) - but especially when he destroyed that bomb. He wasn't only protecting his beloved Maria, but also (and particularly) Liz. The true Queen. Symbolically at least, Michael - the second - protecting Queen Liz. Michael showing up at Las Cruces, not necessarily to debunct Liz's work (and protect Maria of course), but also protecting her as well? The look between Michael/Liz afterwards... Michael at that moment was acknowledging Liz being right all along, but yet I felt it was even MORE than that. That on some level, Liz was being acknowledged as someone that also should be *respected* by Michael for what I, at least, believe she is. Max's "destined" mate, his true Queen, his chosen one... and Liz being special even BEYOND her connection to Max (which is why Max became so smitten with her in the first place). One of the *duties* in protoMichael's life was to possibly "protect the Queen" - which Michael is also doing now and he doesn't even realize it

quote: Max: “I feel so irresponsible and stupid!” – Well Max – maybe that is because you were and are!

If he is... he probably was in the past life too imho! We've been preached by Katims and others most of this season that the podsters were going to "explore their alien sides". IF Max IS "exploring his alien side"... imo, this means protoMax was ALSO probably "irresponsible and stupid" (despite being VERY powerful, acc. to Nikolas, WO)... and/or fairly easily manipulated/mindwarped! Which probably was a BIG factor in the tragic outcome of the past alien life!

Melodious

With regard to Max and Liz being at war, this imagery has been present since CYN. Mel, I think you're right on track with your description of the battle and the significance of how it played itself out in their former iteration/lives. They need to get it right this time! I also loved what you said about Michael protecting the queen. Big old honkin' chess game there.

Go Liz!

You know, suprisingly enough, this never ocurred to me! Max doesn't say anything to Liz when he sees her at the Valenti's (which I'm assuming is the first time they ran into each other) but the next day when Liz and Maria aren't at school, he notices? Hmmmmm. Great catch, Starbox

And for everyone who is speculating that it was odd that Mikey G just "showed" up at Las Cruces, I completely don't agree. His actions are very much in line with the way his character has been all season -- especially with Maria. Remember how he took care of her in CYN? He took dance lessons for her in HOM...no, Mikey is acting totally in character by just showing up at Las Cruces. It's impulsive and motivated by his emotions....sounds like Mikey G to me!! I think there is a part of Mikey G that actually believes that Alex's death was Alien related, and it was totally in his character to show up there JUST IN CASE it wasn't safe for the girls. In any case, I have been completely enjoying the character of Michael this season, and really have loved where the writers have taken him.

quote:Originally posted by Melodious1 Well, I feel it could go either way honestly. The Skins/Khivar might know Leanna is Serena (if she is Serena and Serena is a protector) or they might not. I guess I just found Leanna's seeming need to run away/hide rather odd if the Skins don't know about her (why would she run from Liz/Maria if she knew the Skins didn't know about her? Running away would almost make her look even more suspicious).

Actually, she might've run from Liz/Maria because she didn't want Liz/Maria to find her. Maybe it's important that she is not discovered JUST yet. If she is Serena, I can see her not wanting them to know -- because maybe for *some* reason, something that happens in the near future as the podsquad and friends figure out this mess is something they need to do on their own. Maybe there is somethign that *has to happen* in all of this, that *has to happen with no interference*. OK, I'm stretching things a bit, but I just have this feeling that Leanna is Serena who is the other protector. Could Leanna be a skin working for Khivar? Certainly. That theory actually makes so much more sense in the context of what we have been given so far. Like I said previously, they really can go anywhere with this storyline, but luckily we only have a few more weeks until the answers (or at least some of the answers) are known to us!

{~}:}

IMO, Sean and Tess could be painted almost like Lucifer...or Satan...he tells you EXACTLY WHAT YOUR WANT TO HEAR AND WHAT SOUNDS RIGHT!

But then it's a lie. Tess always tells Max things that sound good, and she is ALWAYS around at his worst or lowest point...same with Sean and Liz.

They both always seem to show up at when Max or Liz needs something or someone, whether it's for comfort or for a ride...and then they also make sure that they cloud the other person's judgement by telling Max or Liz that either the life they are living is not really real(Tess to Max) or that the people that they feel close to cannot be trusted(Sean to Liz).

But isn't that what the does??? Make sure he gets you when your down so you won't feel "alone"

Now before somebody gets their panties in a bunch and the jockstrap caught in their asses..I'm not calling Sean or Tess the Devil, I'm just making a comparion.

[/B]

OK WOW!! I just got an idea. You know the whole bang theory? that when Max's bangs are different he's under a mindwarp. Somebody should see if his bangs are different in those two time periods. When he's yelling at Liz and the next day in school when he's worrying about her...

ZERO: While watching Nellie Furtado sings the line about "You don't know me that way", or something like that, really stuck out to me, as well as the lines you metioned.

MELODIOUS1: In regards to the line that "Max is at war with Liz". This seemed very like Michael's own fixation with war. Watching Bravehart all those times and Matrix, etc.
Not to mention being a warrior in his past.
I also noticed taht Michael seemed to have a renewed respect for Liz. It did seem as tho she was calling him down for trying to tell her what to do. I thought it was regal. I liked your phrase about her 'outranking him'!

METAPHYSICALGIRL: When I watched the scene again with Liz and Maria being noticed by Leanna, I didn't see any clue that she recognized either of them. She just seemed paranoid to me. Like she saw them watching her and just wanted to get away in general.
I'll have to watch again. As for her really being Serena. I could see it. FMax never said she was an alien. But, we know she had to be smart like Liz. Thus, the education. I think that if she is working with the skins she's being used. Liz wouldn't become friends with her in the future if she were bad. So, if Leanna is Serena, she'll be a good guy! Trust Liz!

STARBOX: Rooster= Chickens= Coward?

Just random thoughts. Oh, another thing!

How in the hell did SMax know that Liz would be sitting on a fence as he drove out of town? If it was random, why was he headed out of town. If it wasn't random, who told him she'd be there? According to Liz herself she didn't tell anyone. (unless I'm mixing that up with a cut scene.)
~ck

I just wanted to add the word to the song playing in the background as Max attacks the (real) Trash!

Lyrics:
"Scattered Brain
I'm crying in the rain
Drowning in Your Home
You Go Down
I Lose
So Confused
Your Space Child"

This definitely playes into the Mind Control theory!

Also - everytime I hear the following Vertical Horizon song, I think of Max and Liz - so I'm posting the lyrics for fun:

"Best I Ever Had (Grey Sky Morning)"

"SO you sailed away
Into a grey sky morning
Now I’m here to stay
Love can be so boring

Nothin’s quite the same now
I just way your name now

But it’s not so bad
You’re only the best I ever had
You don’t want me back
You’re just the best I ever had

So you stole my world
Now I’m just a phony
Remembering the girl
Leaves me down and lonely

Send it in a letter
Make yourself feel better

But it’s not so bad
You’re only the best I ever had
You don’t want me back
You’re just the best I ever had

And it may take some time to
Patch me up inside
But I can’t take it so I
Run away and hid
And I may find in time that
Your were always right

So you sailed away
Into a grey sky morning
Now I’m here to stay
Love can be so boring

What was it you wanted
Could it be I’m haunted

But it’s not so bad
You’re only the best I ever had
I don’t want you back
You’re just the best I ever had
The best I ever had
The best I ever"

Off to lunch! Oh - and I appreciate all the feedback Mel and all on my post!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz - and Maria and Kyle - can find find it, and save the Pod Squad!)

I just had a thought!

What if that's what's going to happen in The Departure? Maybe Max is going to follow the same (bad) path and ultimately, be the demise of the Aliens, hence killing them all. If this is true, then I could see him following T's plan and when she reveals herself it simply will be TOO late!

We'll end the Season/Series on a screen cap of Max dying, looking up at Liz and saying something along the lines of, "I should have known you were right, Liz. You always are. You've always been My Destiny."

OK, enough of that!!! I've depressed myself.

quote:When Max and Tess arrive at the Valenti’s notice that the camera frames Max in the diamond shaped window before they come into the house.

Ok: Max looks like something REALLY painful just happened to him here (after he kisses Tess):

I just had a thought. I was told or read that love and hate are one molecule away from each other or something like that. Basically there's a VERY thin line between love and hate and I think Max is just confused about what to direct to who. He's aiming the wrong emotion to wrong person and he needs to snap out of it!

C. Mccoy You're right. What you said in your earlier post. I'm gonna back off a bit. AS for the WB hiring those writers then if and when UPN picks up Roswell then I hope they give JK and RM the freedom that the WB did not.

I have a bone to pick with t*** and nasedo. First of all does t*** truly, honestly, NAIVELY and stupidly believe that when they get back "home" there will be a ticker-tape parade waiting for them? I mean, does she remember that it's a war that's going on and the current leader wants them all dead. She's got tunnel vision and doesn't realize the danger is coming from the sides. As for nasedo. All of you who have mentioned that while he had the time to talk about reproduction tactics and such, he didn't have the time to squeeze some important info on their enemies, the granolith, and the d-day book? Please! It obviosly didn't occur to him that bringing a child to the world where it's parents are in the middle of a war was not too safe. There are just sooooo many things that scream "DECEPTION!" with this it's not even funny. Either that of nasedo really did give more info to t*** who is just not chosing to share

I have been using this smilie so much in the past 3 weeks compared to all the time since I registered.

Roxy

Nemo: Thanks for the reply to my post about the strainer. I'm glad an old pro like you thought it might mean something. I also liked your theory.

Did any of you notice what Iz said to Kyle when she was dream walking his playmate? She said that she was going to have to read "Backlash" twice after helping him. I've never read this book but I have been told it's a must read by my girlfriends. Here is a clip from an interview with the author.

Book: Backlash
Author: Susan Faludi

Faludi: Essentially what I'm telling people is that in at least the last decade -- really ever since the modern wave of the women's movement got started -- there has been this counter-reaction or backlash to put women back in their place. It's based on a big lie, if you will, that argues that everything that the women's movement inspires, that all of women's liberation has yielded women's misery, that true equality has only brought true unhappiness to women. This is a big lie on both fronts. We certainly don't have true equality. Women's pay still greatly lags behind men's. We have a tiny representation in politics. We have one of the worst rape rates in the world. On the other side, this true misery that women supposedly have and supposedly are facing is not a result of too much feminism, but not enough. Women are feeling pain because the women's movement has not gone far enough. They're not treated equally at work, they're not treated equally in the home, and they have almost no voice in the formal political institutions and the national discourse in this country.

This sounds to me more like a book Lonnie would read. She just seems very angry at men in general and she wants the power to rule. Iz always gives into Michael and Max in the end and she has more of a giving nature. Of course Iz might be showing her independence now because Max ticked her off. Maybe Liz gave her this book to read.
The author also said that most women need other women to take the plunge before they have courge to act on their own behalf. Well Iz did stick up for Liz on ITL&ITB when she told Max Liz could be right. I think Liz helped Isabel take that plunge by standing up to Max and Iz now has a lot more respect for Liz.
As for Tess, don't even get me started. She would puch the womens movement back Centuries. "Oh me, oh my just what would I do without a man to take care of me." Give her the Book Iz, maybe you better make it audio, she might not be able to read the big words. Sorry that was mean but that's the character the writers have showen us.

Evid

Is this true? If I recall well: Nacedo, Liz and Maria have been in the podchamber. Maria even in the Granilith chamber (behind the pod chamber?). Anyone else?
Does this imply that only the royal 4 are to go back home? No one else?
Elena

Good question, and how was Nasedo already waiting in the wall when Tess brought Max there end of 4 Square/beginning of MTTM?

I rewatched WAF tonight and I wondered if Alex knew he never really went to Sweden but had to go along with the deception. In the scene where he is telling Maria about the 10 hour delay on the way back, he seems very uncomfortable and will not make eye contact with her and also in the background is a sign that says 'make it real'. Given the 'why does everything have to be a lie comment' in CYN, this scene just stood out for me.

Another scene that stood out for me was the one on Liz's balcony. Liz and Maria were both freezing and Isabel was only in a thin jacket but seemed pretty comfortable, whilst Alex was in a T-shirt. I know the explanation was that he had been hardened to the cold by his time in Sweden, but since we now know he never went there, I wondered if aliens don't feel the cold as much especially as Laurie Dupree made a point of saying how cold she was. The crystals hadn't taken over yet so she was still human at that point.

I know you guys have moved on to discussing the latest episodes and probably have no interest in this old stuff, but I thought I'd put it out there anyway.

I can't get the scene with diamonds at Valenti's out of my head. ("Lucy in the Sky???") It seems to me that there are two possible scenerios at work here. Either
1)Tess is mind warping both Max and Kyle, in which case she deliberately had Max bring up the possibility of her killing Alex. She had him do it in a mocking tone as a defense mechanism to throw Liz off. If this is the case, she may have been distraught by Liz's proximity to the truth, and created an unecessary alibi with Kyle. 2)If Tess is not using mind control, then Max expressed these accusations right from his heart, and they're clearly ideas he's been wrestling with.

EITHER WAY, THIS SCENE IS INCRIMINATING TO TESS and suggests her being DIRECTLY involved with killing Alex.

BTW, if she killed him by taking control of his mind, her actually physical location could be a moot point... -HH

In Baby, It's You, I noticed something not exactly significant, but W/e. Max didn't seem pleased for a second after he woke up next to Tess. He had a regretful expression on his face, but it went away rather quickly (Just acting?). Also, the lyrics to "I will Love You", by Fisher kind of intrigued me. Played in the end of ITLaITB

"Til my body is dust
Til my soul is no more
I will love you, love you

Til the sun starts to cry <-Possible reference to Liz? Tess wanting to hurt her?
Til the moon turns to rust
I will love you, love you

But I need to know
Will you stay for all time
Forever and a day
Then I'll give my heart til the end of all time
Forever and a day"
Sorry, I ran out of time.

TTFN

"I'm the punk rock prom queen
In the brown paper magazine
Hotter than you've ever seen
And everywhere in between"

Scenes where Max's bangs are back:

All of the prom scenes.

That's it, the other episodes i'm sure have more.

SciFiMom, I too am now seriously thinking that Tess and Ava were switched--based on the fact that Tess really wants to go "home" as did all the dupes except Ava.
If this were true, it could explain Zan's 'looking for someone else' to mean that he was looking for Tess. Maybe Max would have bonded with Ava, but since she wasn't around, he bonded with Liz. And Nasedo's moral character always was suspect.
It also goes back to what Rath said about the NM4 being too "human." I would bet that Tess doesn't know she's not part of the "too humans."

Nemo, I thought "Coleman" sounded familiar. And on Thread9, Starstruck posted: quote:An observation- The lab thay take the skellatol remains to is at the COLEMAN Bldg.. When Liz and Alex get aressted at the Soap Factory party the 4 they are aressted with are Lyons, COLEMAN, Kalinowski and Baker. Is this just coincidence?Reggie, have you noticed if there is there a "Coleman" in the credits at the end of the Satellite tapes?

StarBox, I agree that the passion of Max and Liz fighting is so much more intense than Tex.
And nice Rooster catch. To carry the analogy further: Peter really did love his Saviour, but betrayed Him out of fear of being discovered by his enemies.
Max really still loves Liz too and is in fear of being discovered.

Elenac, thread 40 is at http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/007292.html
The text version will be at http://ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology soon.

Steph, from Destiny transcript: quote:WOMAN: If you are seeing me now, it means that you are alive and well. I take this form because it will be familiar to you, and it will help you to understand what I am about to say. You have lived before. You perished in the conflict that enslaves our planet but your essence was duplicated, cloned, and mixed with human genetic materials so that you might be recreated into human beings. My son, you were the beloved leader of our people. I have sent with you your young bride. My daughter, the man you were betrothed to, and your brother's second-in-command.

ISABEL: Oh my god, Max. Our mother.

WOMAN: Our enemies have come to the Earth. You will know them only by the evil within. Learn enough to use your skills, your knowledge, your leadership to combat the enemy so that you can come back and free us. And that I may once again hold you both in my arms. I live for that moment. Help us. I love you.
Compare with Alex/Ray's translation of the book: quote:posted by HollandPark
You are the royal four. Zan, the king, Ava his queen, Vilandra his sister, Rath his counselor. You were created from the genetic material of your alien predecessors and human subjects. You were given human form so that you could live safely on the planet undetected until the time come for your return. You have been given the granolith, a transport between this planet and Antar. You have also been given the communications
technology which will allow you to access information from your true home. The chamber containing your hybernation pods and the granolith has been hidden away from human settlement. It can only be accessed by the four of you. You have been provided with a guardian who will protect you from danger and keep you hidden from your enemies, both human and Antarian.

And posted by 6th Rock:
A fixed sequence of events recurs from one abduction report
To another. The story consists of eight possible episodes--capture
Examination, conference, tour of the ship, journey, or
Otherworldly journey, theophany, return, and aftermath. Few
Reports contained every possible episode, but when it appears it
Usually assumes the relative position. That is examination
Precedes conference, and conference precedes otherworldly
Journey. Priority to the sequence characteristics of the ________
Reports in the ______ study

Melodius, ITA on Max's past life "bad decisions." Remember Niko looking at Tess (I think they actually had the camera look at her) when he said Max always put his trust in the wrong people?

Scenes where Max's bangs are back:

The funeral/when Max reads the case file with Valenti

The infamous Liz vs. the Aliens argument.

First of all, I'd like to defend Michael and Isabel for a moment. I don't think they've been suspicious.

The entire season they've been making Michael's character more three dimensional, and a lot more ... human. Important Michael moments: in ARCC after Max heals the children and Michaels expresses his wish that he could do that. The entire Hybrid Chronicles - it was all about Michael and developing the softer side of his character brought out by Maria (that's the candygirl in me). From HOM on. Especially when he said he was starting to think he had been wrong about wanting to focus on their alien side in ITL&ITB. I think this also has to do with the 'switching' of Max and Michael and the effort to show that there was a reason Courtney-like aliens existed. A guy can't be a jerk ALL the time, that would just be terrible writing.

Another thing about Michael. We all know he's extremely loyal. Even when he and Max aren't getting along he refuses to even consider the possibility of betraying him. I loved that look Liz and Michael shared after the pyramid bomb. No, I'm not Polar, I think it is him acknowledging her, and more, giving his pledge to protect her. And we know he'll be loyal to that.

Now about Isabel. I loved her in her revenge scenes against Max. I'm sorry, but he deserved it. But you also see that she starts feeling sorry for the pranks they're playing on him. Speaking from Older sibling experience, you just can't stay mad at a younger sibling for long. Especially with Max and Isabel who had been so close. That's why I don't find the alley or park scene suspicious (loaded with clues and symbols but not suspicious). They have to make up SOME time. And if my younger sister told me something like Max told Isabel at that moment, no matter how mad I was at her, I'd probably try to do something to make her feel better like Isabel did. Because that's what siblings DO.

So that's my little defense of Michael and Isabel. Plus they both support Liz ^_^

Ooh! Someone was talking about astrology on the last thread ... hmmm oh yes, Celtic Princess. Hi! Thanks for posting that. I have a bit of astrology for everyone too. I'm pretty sure the 'V' constelation is Aries ... I think read that somewhere before, maybe they even mentioned it on the show. The star Antares is often associated with Mars/Aries, often as a rival.

A few more things about Aries. It is acendant from March 19 to April 20. Also, the planet that rules Aries is Mars -- the God of WAR. (significant to the war torn planet of Antar? I think so.)Its element is fire and its symbol is the ram.

Aries' oppoiste on the zodiac wheel is Libra. Libra represents justice and its symbol is the balance.
Go at 'em RBI.

z.a.
*Dreamer and part-time Candy Girl*

I'm wondering too if the control is intensified by Tess asking him some sort self-introspective question: "You look sad" (end of prom) or "You seem quiet" by the water in BIY or "Are you all right?" morning after in Valenti's, or even Tasyfa's despised "What's up?" Also, she seems to say his name quite a bit:"What do you want to do now, Max?" Etc. In the diamond scene with Liz and Max, she says it over and over... -HH

Maybe the big bang theory isn't right

Somebody a while ago talked about them basing the show off the Dido Cd ... well there is a song on No Angel that always reminds me of Max and Liz. It's track 12.

Take my Hand

Touch my skin and tell me what you're thinking
Take my hand and show me where we're going
Lie down next to me, look into my eyes
And tell me, tell me what you're seeing

So sit on top of the world and tell me how you're feeling
What you feel is what I feel for you
Take my hand and if I'm lying to you
I'll always be alone if I'm lying to you

See my eyes, they carry your reflection
Watch my lips and hear the words I'm telling you
Give your trust to me and look into my heart
And show me, show me what you're doing

So sit on top of the world and tell me how you're feeling
What you feel is what I feel for you
Take my hand and if I'm lying to you
I'll always be alone if I'm lying to you
Take your time, if I'm lying to you
I know I'll find that you believe me, you believe me

Feel the sun on your face and tell me you're thinking
Catch the snow on your tongue and show me how it tastes

Take my hand and if I'm lying to you
I'll always be alone if I'm lying to you
Take your time and if I'm lying to you
I know you'll find that you believe me, you believe me
------------

*Sigh* I've always imagined a wonderful reunion scene during the season finale with that song playing. *Sigh* ::drool...::

Also, have you noticed how much Max seems to love snow? It's the one thing that Isabel uses to cheer him up. The line about snow reminded me of the end of BIY.
Oh, and remember that in the Wizard of Oz Glinda sent snow to wake up Dorothy and Co. when they had been put to sleep by the poppies!

z.a.
*Dreamer and part-time Candy Girl*

Scenes where Max's bangs are back:

Durring the scene where Tess tells Max she is pregnant.

Basketball scene with Michael.

I'm thinking that the bang theory is wrong. There are so many scenes that look like he is being mind warped yet his bangs are normal.

Essence - I noticed the Tess touching about the baby in the pod chamber too - kind of like she was "reeling him in". Very creepy

GraceKel - blues and greens in the bowling alley huh........I speculated a while ago that green was a Liz color and blue was a Tess color. But the color symbolism is really hard to pin down.

Re: Alex - what I think is that the entire time he was at "college" he was in an altered state. The emails were probably NOT actually written by Alex. Then - when he came back - his "memories" of Las Cruces were erased and new (but imperfect) ones (of Sweden) were "implanted". I agree that the Thai food "triggered" a break in the mind control.

This could be a HUGE clue to us about how much mind control may be possible - also about how imperfect the mind control is. Alex obviously began to sense that things were not right. Maybe this is why Tess's bogus baby has a 4 week gestation.

Oh - and speaking of the little whippersnaper - another amazing CHAD - in the podchamber the babys hand looks fully developed - of a very late gestation baby. BUT - later - in Max's "sonogram" - the images were of an 18-22 week old fetus. At that point the hands would be teeeny-weeeny. IF the alien gestation is 4 weeks - a human gestation is 40 weeks - the baby at this point (2-3 days post conception) should be the equivalent of about 3-4 weeks in development. If the baby is somewhere between 18-22 weeks (or fully developed) at 2-3 days post conception - the Tess could very well give birth to a toddler in 4 weeks.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

Ummmm, is this what the mom-o-gram said ? This is the first time I read this. HELLO? That says FIVE people ...

young bride
lady's daughter
the man who [she] was betrothed to
[the son's] brother's second in command &
ladies's son [the leader]

Well no wonder Ava's diary piece said escape for 5! Now everything makes more sense...DUH!

young bride
lady's daughter
the man who [she] was betrothed to
[the son's] brother's second in command &
ladies's son [the leader]

Well no wonder Ava's diary piece said escape for 5! Now everything makes more sense...DUH!
[/B]

Actually, I believe the second in command and the daughter's betrothed are meant to be the same person (Michael). 'Your betrothed and your brother's second in command' is all one phrase. I think it was a lot clearer when actually spoken.

z.a.
*Dreamer and part-time Candy Girl*

Not necessarily. Who said that it had to be the same person? Then, that would mean that the queen might have not been put with the other pods, going with what Larek/Brody said about the queen not necessarily being in the same place. Maybe Liz/Sheila were poddies and this would explain why they look alike, but Sheila was hatched first?
OR, another possibility being Tess and Ava was a twin and she was sent after because of that reason (she had to be brought over).

Open Sky Property Managment

Clue or not clue?

Open Sky Property Managment

Clue or not clue? Hi, Vihmakass! Great catch! Yes, I think it is a clue! So maybe it's owned by the Universal Friendship League?

One more thing---Sean does say to Michael in CYN what are you doing SNAKING breakfast? I put it on MUTE and SNAKING not sneaking is what he said---so who is the SNAKE--Sean or someone pretending to be Michael?

You guys are as usual fantastic. With my hectic schedule lately, I haven't been able to come here very often. I got here Monday after the show, but got knocked off and wasn't able to come back til now. I have to say that it really hit me, that if Roswell is C I will not only miss one of the greatest shows, but I will truely miss all of you. I knew that if I could just log on here, I would find comfort in your theories and your faith. (she slowly picks herself up from the floor, wipes her eyes, straightens up and says - I believe....)

Way back on one of our earlier threads, I shared an idea of mine that Tess had been raised by the 'skins' and then brought to the royals as a plant. Now I really wonder if that may not be. What if what she thinks she knows to be truth about her other life are nothing but implanted memories put there by Nic. Then every time she helps Max, she herself gets pulled in deeper. When she first realizes she is pregnant, she looked at her stomach and said OMG as if she was surprised. If it isn't Nic behind it, then Lonnie would be the one. Is Tess her card? What really happened to Tess when Rath and Lonnie took her in MITC?

Max really didn't seem as if he was real happy about being with Tess. It was as if he was 'doing what he thought he shoud do'. And this wanting to go home thing just really sounds like Lonnie.

The scene with Max and Liz was cruel, but oh the chemistry. Wow!! I think Max was might have been acting out his guilt about Tex here. Here is the woman he really loves talking to the one he just got P and he freaks. He knows Liz is on this campaign to find a murderer, she has accused aliens, he thinks she slept with Kyle, she refuses to stop what she is doing, he is torn between wanting to run to her or away from her, and he is afraid to believe she may be right. So instead he lashes out at her because he can't face the truth about what is going on within himself. So instead of directing his anger and confusion at himself, he lashes out at Liz and in the doing makes a statement that may be something he has subconciously thought. That being that Tess had something to do with Alex's death and thus indirectly Max is responsible. He is showing the same anger and frustration when he beats up the garbage cans.

Just a thought. Gotta catch some zzzzz
TTFN

Now we're going to help someone we don't like based on the word of someone who never tells the truth.... Tao to Dar

Just thought I would let you all know. I don't really have much to add because these theories are already so amazing!

Yes, well, "Cooper, Cooper, Cooper: The owls aren't what they seem." Obscure attempt at humor relating the storyline to Twin Peaks, another symbol-chucked tale. Cooper got the owl message from outer space, I think. It was supposed to clue him in that things weren't what they appeared to be. The whole shebang was a symbolic chess game between the protagonist (Agent Cooper) and his former partner and good-guy turned nemesis, Wyndham Earle. Another complex story of good vs. evil.

Off topic, I know, but maybe an interesting parallel. I think in this story the chess allusion may be that, regardless of what position they play, king, queen, knight, rook, etc., they're all being used as pawns!

ITA that T has tunnel vision about going home (I think she's and has alterior motives, but we'll assume, for argument sake that she's ISN'T the ). The Pod Squad knows that there is some major war going on "up there" and that Khivar, at the very least, wants Max dead. Why hasn't anyone talked about the idea that "going home" could potentially be fatal? Maybe they'd go anyway, but you'd think a little red flag would go up when T talks about the "ultimate goal" of going home. "Well, yes, that IS the plan, but remember.. everyone THEIR wants us dead.. might want to be a big cautious on return."

I'm not sure if you're serious with this comment, but the more I obsess about this show, the more I realize how abserd it all really is!

Open Sky Property Managment

Clue or not clue?
Shapeshifter says: Hi, Vihmakass! Great catch! Yes, I think it is a clue! So maybe it's owned by the Universal Friendship League?

[/B][/QUOTE]

Or it could be that same place that provided the temp for the emissary?
~ck

Okay here is something else I noticed in HOM Sean says "one thing I know about BREAKING and ENTERING is to never stay in the same place for more than five minutes? Now if everyone in some manner is being manipulated, moves like pawns perhaps what we are seeing is that at DIFFERENT TIMES people are not themselves--not all the time but some of the time--switching from person to person? Is this possible?

Starbox--FORCE YOURSELF to WATCH these episodes they are LOADED with CLUES LOL!!!!!

or ?

i was reading over the recent posts and something occured to me. in light of all the recent movie references, max's description of the 'climax' he had while having Tex reminded me of some of the scenes from Gladiator. i don't know how many of you have seen the movie, but there are several times when MAXimus looks like he's floating. these occur after he's been seriously injured and is in a semi-delusional state after he's lost his wife (hmm...max thinks he's lost LIZ- does he think of her as his wife?? i guess he has kind of lost his wife, since the future's been changed, hasn't it?) and also at the end when he's about to die after he's vanquished Commodus. Could there be a connection here? is max's memory of the climax meant to be a big clue that he was not thinking clearly or under someone else's control at that time? or at least that he's delusional for being with tess?

what do you guys think?

totenhosen

Gracekel, I think you are absolutely right. I haven't seen all the episodes and I'm not brave enough to rewatch, but I do think Liz and Maria were led into finding that translation. I think Tess and her cronies have adjusted it to read the way she wants it to, and also having Liz find it, Max might more readily accept it than if Tess suddenly produces it in their time of need. The timing and location of its discovery is too coincidental. I also think the investigation into Alex's death was designed to distract Liz from what Tess is up to. In ITL&ITB when Max grabbed Liz's arm, I felt that she seemed concerned by his actions for a brief moment. If she wasn't so obsessed with getting to the bottom of Alex's death, she would have paid more attention to Max's extreme behaviour.

P.S. I've calmed down a bit and I'm able discuss the clues more rationally now

Also, the alien bomb is RED and is DIAMOND shaped.

Maria is wearing a RED shirt when she is talking to Leanna's roommate.

The true Royal family
~Tas

or ?

I think he's neutral. He probably got some deal to get out of prison so now he's leaning towards with possibility of turning . My little opinion.

quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:
RoswellDiva and zeroAutumn we discussed this very thing at length during the summer after Destiny had aired--and I believe that someone said there were commas in between--which leaves the possibility that they were talking about 5--but I guess we left it up in the air.

Cool . So the only thing that would bother me would be then LIZ/Sheila wouldn't be able to mate with the because she's so perhaps LIZ is not hybrid but pure cloned human? Perhaps the humans wanted to see if they could pull this of with their own. You know sort of to learning project form the knowledge. This would explain why Liz is being watched . She's our own little DARYL .
I loved how they let us in on the sheep cloning AFTER it had been 'perfected' to be let out into the masses (even though it cannot reproduce) followed by a few other cloned mammals. Maybe to see how the people would react. Menatlly preparing them *cough* . Perhaps. Just a thought .

BTW - Grace Kel interesting thoughts about the use of Red and Black. I have always associated those colors with Checkers, notChess (which I connect the colors Black and White with). Checkers is also a game of strategy - with the ultimate goal of becoming "kinged" and eliminating all of your opposition. Ummm...??

I'm SOOOOO looking forward to seeing how they fit Off The Menu into the current story arch and to the season finale! Now that I've gotten over the M/T stuff and focused on the "real" story - I'm thrilled to see what is coming our way!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only the Liz - and Maria and Kyle - can find it and save the Pod Squad!)

StephStephSteph--my take on Sean---well I think he can go either way really--I found things to be suspicious about with him but then again maybe not-so I am on the fence.

OK, was the last episode good for everybody? Did it last about an hour? Did it leave us floating?

Shapeshifter asked if I had seen a "Coleman" in the credits. No, I haven't; but I wasn't looking for one there. I'll look. (I have one in my family tree, will that do? )

The Big Bang Theory
Well, you'll recall my Liz in Dis-Tress theory, where Liz's tresses were messed up according to her mental state, from TEOTW on. Now that she's back on track, her hair is nicely normal. And we've had comments on how Tess has lost her curls; could she be trying to "go straight" now? (Ava's hair was absolutely straight!) Big Bang- maybe as a marker for Max's sanity- could be!

Liz on Mindwarping
Well, of course she comes to Tess! Who else, her mom? Tess is the one who knows about such things. Alex seems to have been mindwarped, or something. Tess wouldn't be out to kill Alex, because she already has Max and The Granilith: what else would an Evil Alien want? So she's an expert, and on "our" side; it's perfectly reasonable to ask her.

It's also reasonable for Tess to cooperate. Liz seems to have done Tess a big favor, not just stepping out of the way but actually fixing Tess up with Max. That's paid off nicely, just now, and so Tess owes Liz. Plus, Tess has been a "Powers shipper", if you will; she wants to help the others with their powers. Since Liz is changed, and may now have some power(s), it's in character for Tess to help her explore them.

Both gals are acting reasonably, but Max is a "Junior **ass". By picking a fight with Liz, in front of Tess, he has shown Tess what he's really like. Add to that the thinly veiled suggestion that Tess could do away with her baby, and Max's wrongheadedness about Alex. I can see Stepford Tess beginning to "wake up", herself. At first, she went along with Max after he had declared himself about the "accident". Now, she defends Liz against Max. Stay tuned...

The Alibi
Well, The Crashdown is a restaurant, folks. Any picture-sharing would have to go on after closing time, yes? So there would be plenty of time after supper to see a movie, then wander on over to see the pictures.

The BEMlet
Well, the only one I'd trust for info on baby aliens is Ava. If she's like the other Dupes (which she seems to be, see the collage on shp.com), then she remembers at least some of their past life. She should know about aliens, babies, etc. Isabel and Liz should try the astral projection thing again, and try to find her.

I sent UPN Tabasco. Did you?

Here's a theory I posted on the CHADs thread. I edited out most of the humor that wouldn't fit in on this thread. quote:Nasedo switched Tess & Ava at hatching so the NM4
(who really are the Royals but also the Defects--being "too human" as Rath explained)
would have a not-too-human mate for Max so she'd want to go back home, and then Nasedo could hitch a ride as their guide.
But with Nasedo dead, Kvar emmissaried Alex to decode the book and then snare Liz into finding it. Then Kvar offed Alex so Is would want to leave town and might jump at the chance to go 'home' where Kvar would be waiting (unbeknownst to Is) with waiting arms (or tentacles).
Michael, OTOH, having been totally humanized by Hal & Maria, decides to stay on Earth which also fits with the plan as when Nicko spoke for Kvar when he said that the 'freak with the hair stays here.'
(Michael going to Antar would have been in Nasedo's plan, but definitely not Kvar's.)
Anyway, in the end of my theory, Liz uncovers the whole plot
(she has time to do this because the audience is afflicted with the Green Flourescent Reading Lamp Bulb Phallic Time Warper)
and Max finally wakes up and realizes he can't leave Mom, so Tess takes the baby home to Antar to wear the King's crown while she toasts Kvar's butt, and Max in his despair over not being able to ever see his son (except by emmissary) is comforted as only Max can be comforted by Liz who doesn't have to feel bad anymore about Kyle.

Thanks for the heads up HUGGYBEHR!!
Zero the only reason I associated the CHESS with the RED and BLACK is because the CHESS CLUB sign is RED and BLACK otherwise I would agree with you---black and white would be chess colors!

StephStephSteph--I am still on the fence about Sean--I want him to be good but I fear he might not be--I guess we shall see.

1) Main plot akin to cheesy ABC afterschool special about teenage pregnancy.
2) Subplot akin to "B" rated Science Fiction movie - (sorry for a moment I was thinking this episode is suitable for mystery science theather.)
3) Max loses control with garbage (Tess or trash - you pick).
4) Tess trys to be nice to Liz.
5) Maria suddenly switches sides and joins Liz on the Alex crusade.
6) Isabel is a bitch.
7) Kyle doesn't hit Max for kissing his "sister".
8) Michael shouldn't be able to fool Maria.
9) jcoleman@lascruses.com - why go to the trouble to blow up the computer when you can neatly delete the file, or remove the hard drive?
10) Nelly, are you trying to look like princess Leia from Star Wars?
11) The scene of public affection, seemed really odd and forced.
12) Baby handprint - hmm??? Like right!
13) Alex seemed to be posessed and killed because he was starting to remember things. Why was Alex chosen? Did the other aliens actually want to attract attention to themselves. Wouldn't any other person do?
14) Apartment hunting. Yeah, Max is really into the idea. I am sure the Brody pays his employees enough for Max to make rent.
15) Tess's doodles.
16) The fact Max thought it was cute.
17) This story sucked: It was badly written, the dialog was flat. The direction was lacking. The acting was only so-so. I give JB points because he actually got to cry in the episode. But anyone can play pissed off without effort.

Post your reasons below - and send "Baby, It's Poop" down the toilet!

Heh. Just had to pop in because I watched the entire Twin Peaks series for the first time this winter and when Andy figured out that the Owl/Cave/Symbols were really a map of the stars I was like -- hello! Roswell!

Okay, so. Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology. Um. Yes. It is vital.

Anyhoo -- myth on, RBIers!

~karma police
~letting ya know this is her favorite lurking thread.

This is true. But the Crashdown is a cafe (owned by the Parkers), in a small town, where it seems to be the local hangout for the Podsters (& friends of Liz). IMO I don't have a problem with this scene and think that the Gladiator mention by Kyle is a hint that all is not what it seems... oh the tangled web we weave.

If you do subscribe to Reggie's POV... then if the Podsters bought only a beverage, they technically could hangout in the cafe, picture sharing without any problems.

Perhaps this is just a factor of being wards of the state when they were little... remember according to officials, Max, Michael, & Iz don't remember anything before that day they were picked up on the side of the road.

So perhaps the social worker (or whoever was assigned to their case) picked birthdates for the 6yr olds arrbitrarily, making Iz older than Max. The Podsters would have to have DOBs, SS#s, etc to live/be a part of the social system.

That's my guesstimate anyway.

I totaly agree with you on that one. It really did seem wierd, not at all like the doodle of a love-crazed-teenager.

Hi to Joyful1 and welcome to all newbies. love to hear your theories. I don't get here as often as I would like, but this really is a great group of people.

TTFN

Great! Now we're going to help someone we don't like based on the word of someone who never tells us the truth.... Tao to Dar

quote:Originally posted by UncleMartin:
Okay, I figured out some very cool scientific tidbits that made me think that looking to the stars would give me the "Tess doesn't belong" clue.

First, there really is a star called Antares. It is one of 4 royal stars (not making this up) also one on the 25 brightest in the night sky. Next, its connection to Liz. Don't know where it came from but Liz and Venus?

Okay, now for the cool part: only three of the four Royal stars ever cross Venus' orbit. They can be found in Leo (Venus in the morning sky), Taurus, and Scorpius. If this is some big clue, then Liz (Venus) and Tess (rouge 4th royal star) were never meant to interact. And since they are spread out across the night sky Venus would be the only link the stars had.

quote:Originally posted by Legal Eagle:
Antares (aka "Le Coeur de Scorpion" -- the Heart of the Scorpion) is a huge star. In a class called red supergiant (maybe the writers do research after all!), Antares is about 700 times the diameter of our own Sun, 15 times more massive, and 10,000 times brighter. Antares is the brightest star in the constellation of Scorpius and one of the brighter stars in all the night sky. Antares is seen surrounded by a nebula of gas which it has itself expelled. Radiation from Antares' blue stellar companion helps cause the nebular gas to glow, as photographed above. Antares is located about 500 light years away. http://www.star.ucl.ac.uk/~idh/apod/ap980726.html

To paraphrase: Could this be the red giant that haunted Max, that which he placed so much emphasis on by calling a meeting after it had exploded? If so the Podsters would not have a place to call home, except Earth.

quote:Originally posted by CelticSpirit:

I put this together from a couple of other sites with the translations of the Destiny Book. Like Magic's source, it is from folks who took it off their tapes, while on "pause," I think that is why some people have come up with different words or punctuation.
This is what I have.....
_______________________________

You are the royal 4. Zan the king, Ava his queen, Vilandra his sister, Rath his counselor. You are created from the genetic material of your alien predecessors and human subjects. You were given human form so that you could live safely on the planet unaffected until the time comes for your return. You have been given the granolith, at transport between this planet and Antar. You have also been given communication technology which will allow you to access information from your true home. The chamber containing your incubation pods and the granolith has been hidden away from human settlement. It can only be accessed by the four of you. You have been provided with a guardian who will protect you from danger and keep you hidden from your enemies, both human and Anatarian.

(*This is where it gets sort of strange.....
It sounds as if this is actually a human narative. Could it be just filler? Could it have something to do with GC?*)
A fixed sequence of events reoccurs from one abduction report to another. The story consists of 8 possible episodes: capture, examination, conference, tour of the ship, journey or otherworldly journey, *** (?theophany?), return and aftermath. This report contains every possible episode but when it appears it *** assumes the same relative position. That is: Conference precedes otherworldly journey. *** (?Fidelity?) to this sequence characterizes **(a number ?87?) out of **(a number?100?) reports of this **(another 4 digit number) study.

This *** *** extends to events in the capture. Examination *** return episodes as well. In a sequence of escalating events, the subject sees a ufo in the sky or light streaming into *** (? bedroom window?) to lose volition and mental control as paralysis begins uncharacteristic behaviors take over. Beings appear to escort the abductee to the craft often with a sense of floating off the ground. Entry into the ship is frequently a success, or often occasion for a momentary lapse of unconsciousness.
The examination begins soon after entry as though the beings are impatient to carry it out. The captive lies on the table while a party of beings performs a manual examination by probing or touching the abductee from head to toe with either fingers or hand held instruments. An eye *** lens or *** device scans the cavities body, then the being may attach ***or *** and collect samples of blood, skin(?) hair or other *** material ***. A key element of the examination is inspection of the reproductive organs, a process that may include extraction of sperm from males or apparent removal of eggs from females by means of a needle inserted into the abdomen. Only reproductive and *** systems seem of interest to the examiners. They insert or remove a *** implant from the head or spine of abductees and a being may stare intently (intensely) into their eyes. Performance tests or *** *** *** ***. Screams may follow as an apparent way to *** human *** and behaviors."

The last few sentences are pretty fuzzy..... just when you think you can see them Liz's arm covers the page.

Isabel being older, they probably did some developmental tests and judged their ages form there.

Tess's doodles. Did anyone else notice the creepy music that played when he saw it?

Liz on mind control . I agree that Liz asking Tess was based on her idea of what may have happened to Alex. I really feel that scene is foreshadowing stuff to come because their conversation is left unresolved.

I still believe that Tess is the Dupe. That's my theory and I am sticking to it.

Well I think my brain has hit its expiration hour.
Myth On!

True, but they would have found both Max & Iz to be approx. the same age (since all 3 Podsters were engineered & gestated in the pods for the same amount of time).

What I was referring to with a social worker, etc. picking a birth date for them (since the Podsters didn't know/remember)... is that if Iz just happened to get Nov 12 (speculation here) and Max got anything after that date, technically Iz is 'older'-- the Evans would have celebrated their birthdays as such.

I think this is what Iz is referring to when she calls Max "little brother". We have not had any 'alien' info introduced in the episodes that would state one way or the other who was older than whom.

edited to add: in Surprise Iz states in her monologue at the end that she indeed does not know her true birthdate, they just celebrate that day (sorry I forget the actual date) as her birthday.

(Of course, it was probably supposed to be describing what happened to Grandpa Dupris and the other cloned folks.)

What I was referring to with a social worker, etc. picking a birth date for them (since the Podsters didn't know/remember)... is that if Iz just happened to get Nov 12 (speculation here) and Max got anything after that date, technically Iz is 'older'-- the Evans would have celebrated their birthdays as such.

I think this is what Iz is referring to when she calls Max "little brother". We have not had any 'alien' info introduced in the episodes that would state one way or the other who was older than whom.

edited to add: in [b]Surprise Iz states in her monologue at the end that she indeed does not know her true birthdate, they just celebrate that day (sorry I forget the actual date) as her birthday.

[/B]

Iz celebrates her birthday on October 25th (I remember because it is my birthday too!)

Rooney

I found this info on Binary codes.

*In the quantum world a principle called superposition says that both states (0 and 1) can exist at the same time (on and off). A classical bit of information must be either 0 or 1, but a qubit is a zero and a 1 at the same time!*

So was Alex living in a quantum world, was he a qubit? Did he exist in two places at once? Maybe the picture wasn't altered and Alex was really leaving in the past in 1994. Or could they all be living in a quantum world? Ok I'm confused, does anyone else read more into this info?

I noticed the bridge and also where Max is standing when he said they could go home.

Bridge - Since antiquity, bridges have symbolized linking; between the earthly and heavenly realms, between the physical and the spiritual, or between life and death. In modern psychoanalytic terms, bridges symbolize the transition from one state of being to another and the opportunity for change. The bridge's near side represents the past, its opposite side the future, and water flowing underneath, the chaos of the unconscious mind.

Well the chaos of the unconscious mind sure does fit SMax. Yet another clue that points to mindcontrol.
Why does Max walk off the bridge and Iz and Michael stay on it? If the bridge means transition this could mean Max is stuck because he is choosing a past life, death. Micheal and Iz are in transition, they have not yet decided to join Max? I guess they don't want to die.

Evid

*In the quantum world a principle called superposition says that both states (0 and 1) can exist at the same time (on and off). A classical bit of information must be either 0 or 1, but a qubit is a zero and a 1 at the same time!*

So was Alex living in a quantum world, was he a qubit? Did he exist in two places at once? Maybe the picture wasn't altered and Alex was really leaving in the past in 1994. Or could they all be living in a quantum world? I had totally thought that until one of my students pointed out that it was supposed to be a morphed picture. Then I realized that if our Liz said, "Alex never went to Sweden," then that was what the writers intended to be the truth.
quote:also by Evid:
I noticed the bridge and also where Max is standing when he said they could go home.

Bridge - Since antiquity, bridges have symbolized linking; between the earthly and heavenly realms, between the physical and the spiritual, or between life and death. In modern psychoanalytic terms, bridges symbolize the transition from one state of being to another and the opportunity for change. The bridge's near side represents the past, its opposite side the future, and water flowing underneath, the chaos of the unconscious mind.

Well the chaos of the unconscious mind sure does fit SMax. Yet another clue that points to mindcontrol.
Why does Max walk off the bridge and Iz and Michael stay on it? If the bridge means transition this could mean Max is stuck because he is choosing a past life, death. Micheal and Iz are in transition, they have not yet decided to join Max? I guess they don't want to die.
Wow, Evid, I think you really caught something that we all overlooked that JK assumed we'd notice. I'll have to watch it again. I think it might also have to point to their individual feelings about going to Antar.

And just LOT (left Of Topic as opposed to being Off Topic): Today is Eric Burdon's 60th birthday. That's Eric Burdon of "Eric Burdon and the Animals" of the 1960s hit "We Gotta Get Outta This Place"
"...if it's the last thing we ever do,
We gotta get outta this place,
Girl, there's a better life,
For me and you."

This makes me think of TWR!!

Cheers.

Happy Birthday QFanny!!!!!!!!!

{~}:}

Max's birthday is 3/15/1983 (Bloodbrothers). I have Iz's BD as either 10/15 or 25/1982. I think there was some confusion because the dates for those first few episodes were so messed up. As far as astrological signs go - the date chosen would make a difference.

Reggie - I too sent my bottles of Tabasco in to the UPN people!

I have a new theory I want to throw out there for comment. What if Harding is not really dead - and the being that came to Max to warn him of the Skins and shriveled up and died was really an advanced decoy to lead the Pod Squad to believe that Harding was killed. What if he was in league with Nicko/Skins - and by getting out of the way set up Tess' further acceptance into the group, etc. It would explain why he never "noticed" that Whitaker was a Skin, never filled the Podsters in on stuff and acted strange overall. Is Tess knowledgeable about this deception? I don't know - though maybe she was privy to some of the original planninn or is just a pawn in the bigger game. BUT - ... just a theory that has been bugging me for a while. I STILL think that Harding knew way more - especially about Liz's importance - than he was letting on - explainin why he saved Liz from the house of mirrors - so this is my way of explaining some of that away.

Thoughts?

Grace Kel - I know why you picked up on the black and red connection to chess - the reoccurring sign in the school hallways. But I just thought I would though out the Checkers connection, too!

Qfanny - Happy Belated Birthday!!!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz - and Maria and Kyle - can find it, and save the Pod Squad!)

So was Alex living in a quantum world, was he a qubit? Did he exist in two places at once? Maybe the picture wasn't altered and Alex was really leaving in the past in 1994. Or could they all be living in a quantum world? Ok I'm confused, does anyone else read more into this info?

Whoa. Thats pretty cool. I had never heard of qubits. So in other words what you're saying is a person's body is a type of 'copper pair'conductor sort to speak (obviously dif. but in a manner of speaking) and the person's soul/essence can be represented by 0 or 1 since parallel universes are mathmateical fact in quantum physics, then the qubit is math proof that two essences/people's soul can be in one body at once IE.possession, whatever you wanna call it. Thats pretty freakin cool . So Alex can be possessed/mindcontrolled by Kivar even if Kivar is allll the way in Antar. I think thats just proof its possible. Most excellent finding! I bow to you !

RE: BRIDGE SYMBOLOGY was amazing as well. This is why I love coming in here

quote:What if he was in league with Nicko/Skins - and by getting out of the way set up Tess' further acceptance into the group, etc. It would explain why he never "noticed" that Whitaker was a Skin, never filled the Podsters in on stuff and acted strange overall. Is Tess knowledgeable about this deception? I don't know - though maybe she was privy to some of the original planninn or is just a pawn in the bigger game. BUT - ... just a theory that has been bugging me for a while.

Hmmmm, it would definately fill in a lot of holes. Works for me too. I still think Liz is a clone

OT :
HAPPY BIRTHDAY QFANNY!

do guys think...that Serena/Leanna might have ran away from Liz and Maria because someone else was there with them?...

I spy I spy with my little eye WHO is this guy following Maria and Liz? Could it be .....

the same guy wearing the same t-shirt behind Maria???? I mean the guy did seem to know a lot about Alex?? what do u think?

the same guy wearing the same t-shirt behind Maria???? I mean the guy did seem to know a lot about Alex?? what do u think?

This is the guy that came in to the room where Alex/Ray was staying? You think he WAS someone, other than just a guy who happened to be there to fill in the blanks? Hmm... let me think about this one - anyone else?

Because I thought the other picture showed the t-shirt better so I changed it . Looks to me like you found the proof he's a shapeshifter.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Look at this scene, again. I think that the way that he "laughed" was kind of sarcastic. Almost snarky! It was as though, for a just a moment, he knew that an arrow had pierced his heart and destroyed it. And was thinking of the irony of the picture that Tess drew.
Am I reading to much into it? Maybe, but that was my first thought when I saw his reaction.

Baby It's Poop and then Tess doodles(thinking poop again)... Max thinking it is cute...

Thanks I needed a good laugh!!

~Sheri

And maybe all of Max's wrong decisions before were because he didn't want to believe that Tess would ever betray him. And if no one back home knew about the betrayal until the pod squad had been created and sent to earth, then they would have assumed that sending his "wife" along would be what a leader would want and it would be an advantage to him.

Anyway, I can't decide if the Dupes are actually a part of what's happening now or if it's Nicholas and the Skins pulling the strings, but either way, I think Ava/Tess was never what she was portrayed to be.

Just a side note about the protectors we keep hearing about. I've always thought they were talking about the Nasedo types and/or Serena, but I'm wondering if it could actually go beyond that. What if Liz is actually a protector. So much of what she's done has either directly hidden them from the outside world or has in some way saved their lives, now or in the future. And she's on the road to possibly saving it again, if she can just find some proof now that this translation is not accurate, or will in fact result in their demise. Just a bizarre thought.

And thanks for listening.

As for Leanna/J. Coleman, I think she could be Lonnie. It would make sense to have her near Alex to control him and make sure he always got his Thai food. She's definitely alien somehow otherwise she woulnd't have posession of an alien bomb and the granolith crystal.
However, I'm also toying around with the idea that she's Serena and was actually at Las Cruses to protect Alex and that someone alse was mindwarping him. The bomb by the computer seems to be a sort of test for anyone who wanted to access the computer rather than simply a means to destroy the computer. Michael, because he's an alien and had the power to "disarm" the bomb, passed the test and was allowed to see the destiny book translation.

Sorry for the long post but there's so much to figure out! I really hope that as much of this can be resolved as possible in the finale.

Edited to say:
OT: Did anyone else think that this guy looks a lot like Grant?
quote:Originally posted by roswelldiva:

How would Liz know about Thai food? There's no Thai resteraunts in Roswell! ITA about the pepperjack, though. Did we see what he ordered? Was there a filled-out menu or anything? ("Evil Wizard in Green Jungle" is goood...)

Ummm... wouldn't there have to be a Thai food restaraunt in Roswell? You know, the one that delivered Alex his dinner?

{~}:}

{~}:}

Maybe this Thai food comes from Las Cruces or some other place?
It was so cold...
Maybe he don't ordered it himself, maybe someone sent it to him?
Maybe..
...now Im crazy...
-----------------
sry.gram.

OT: Remember T. Greer from the Harvest episode? Well, I always thought the name was an odd choice. I just found this: quote:from "They're Here" by VICKY SPAVIN, Daily Record, 05-09-2001, pp 26,27.
...GREER is the founder and director of the Centre for the Study of Extra- Terrestrial Intelligence in North Carolina, which he set up in 1990 to "establish a diplomatic and research initiative to contact extra- terrestrial civilisations...
...CSETI is the only worldwide organisation dedicated to establishing peaceful relations with extra-terrestrial life forms.

BTW.Who has seeing movie"Exile" - there is theme song "situation99"from HW.Is this clue to? Bc this movie has many similar situations to Roswell.
And I have one thought - what if songs/music from Roswell is clue trough the other movies?
Help Shapeshifter translate this to english,if you can - Im totally messed all gram. and spell. dum as Im...

So, Vihmakass (or anyone else), what happened in the movie "Exile?"

I'm almost surprised they didn't have the science teacher be Mr. Sagan. Maybe they thought that would be in poor taste since he died recently of an illness, but I bet C. Sagan would have liked it.

I'm still wondering about Alex's alternate identity of "Ray." Ray was the name of the guy in Melinda Metz' books who ran the UFO Museum and turned out to be an Alien who came as an adult (like Nasedo) and who was a member of the Collective Consciouness, which meant he wanted to be a good guy but was really ensnared in something evil.

Vih (can I call you Vih ?) as usual, I think you're soo soo right! They are very particular about the music and I have been paying attention to it also and there is almost always a behry good reason a particular song was picked because of significance and/or lyrics.

There's a great site where you can get all the Roswell music on mp3s :
http://roswell.na.nu/index.html

Yaz
Album: The Best Of Yaz
Title: Situation


blue eyed dressed for every situation
moving through the doorway of a nation
pick me up and shake the doubt
baby i can't do without

chorus
move out, don't mess around
move out, you bring me down
move out, how you get about
don't make a sound just move out

i remember only for an hour
move right through me can you feel the power
i don't know what's going on
it scares me but it won't take long

repeat chorus

now he's in control he is my lover
nations stand against him he's your brother
been a long time, been a long time now
i'll get to you somehow

repeat chorus
Those are the 'Situation' lyrics (99 was just the remix).

quote:
So, Vihmakass (or anyone else), what happened in the movie "Exile?"

Which year was this 'Exile' movie Vih? I found one done in 1931 and another in 1994 (Australian film ?)...if they have Yaz in the soundtrack I'm assuming that its the 1994 one. All I got was this :

Plot Outline: When Peter Costello is exiled to a deserted island for stealing sheep, Mary, a maid, decides to join him there.

It might not be the best synopsis in town but is that the movie you were talking about ? I'll help you with whatever I can. They aslo apparently won an couple of awards for the movie one award for their soundtrack.

The director of the movie gave a speech at the 1999 Human Rights Day Speech:
Paul Cox, Film maker, Australian Human Rights Medals and Awards ceremony, Sydney, Friday 10 December 1999

He said which I found very interesting (even though it doesn't really deal with that movie in particular ) SO I'm posting it cause I thought it was awesome :

I've always asked myself, was anything achieved in that war? Was anything ever achieved in any war? Will anything be achieved in future wars? The answer is no. Nothing was ever or will ever be achieved in any war, anywhere, any time. Nothing can ever be achieved by brutalizing one's fellow man - nothing.

In his book, Voltaire's Bastards, John Ralston Soul argues that Western civilization is without belief for the first time since the decline of the Roman Empire. We've killed God and replaced him or her with ourselves.

No civilization can survive without belief. Without spirit and faith, we're doomed. With the progression of science, the world has become more and more dehumanized. Man is also losing his emotional unconscious identity with natural phenomena. Thunder is no longer the voice of the angry gods. Rivers no longer contain spirits; no more demons live in mountain caves; no voices speak from stones, trees or animals. Let's arrest our journey into the abyss by very quietly asking these major questions - who lives in this world - what forms of life, what living creatures? What our destiny is. What it means to be human.

That we actually have human rights is a human shame. Martin Luther-King had a dream. So did Ghandi. It cost them their lives. They could not escape the fate of all great humanitarians to be sacrificed. Great humanitarians have become rare. Now we have the Madonnas, the Michael Jacksons or these skinny catwalkers as role models for our children. What's more, the louder you scream - the more you consume or inspire others to consume - the more respect you receive. Nothing earns respect more quickly than to be a greedy consumer. With modesty and consideration you get nowhere. The greedy heroes of the American screen have become household names across the globe - treasured icons of collective insanity, often only capable of portraying one dimensional characters reflecting the most violent abuse of the human spirit.

In the face of Death, only true love makes sense - harmony, peace, warmth, gentleness, kindness - words that have almost disappeared from our vocabulary. All the ambitions, all the career moves become meaningless. In the face of Death we can find our true spirit. All we have to do is return the key and our claims to the house and maybe expect some kind words from families and friends. No more noisy, loud words. People deal in whispers near the dying. Now we have time for ourselves and can think of all those we have loved and how we have loved them. Life could be like that.

We can't insulate ourselves against pain and suffering, against death. But we can make our lives, our journeys, so much more beautiful, so much more creative and rewarding when we realize that all the misery in the world comes from people wanting pleasure and gratification for themselves instead of giving pleasure to others.

I love that guy now. I thought that was pretty well said so lemme know about the movie and I'll add anything else you need !

One more observation. Remember that strange scene where Max and Michael are changing places in the park at night? When Max passes Michael for the last time and carries on alone, he is heading straight towards a large "Florist" sign lit across the street. It again makes me think of our suspicious "Victors" who sent the flowers for the Olsens. -HH

From ITL&ITB
I remember that a few of you were talking at length regarding Michael's comment Max and Liz were at war. In the beginning of this ep, Max says to Liz, "I don't want this to turn into a war between us."
The cop that took Sean away from the school was Native American - a different one than we normally see.
Ever since GraceKel pointed out the black and red clothing, I have been seeing it everywhere!! When Liz is on the fence waiting for the cab, she is wearing red over black and Max is wearing black with red seams

From BIY
I thought the choice of posters hanging on the walls at school were interesting. When Tess is waiting for Max to arrive, she is standing in front of a sign that says, "Is this you?"
When Tess and Max are talking (before they link hands), the poster that you see behind them says, "And you think this looks cool?" - a big fat NO to TPTB on that one!!!
I had assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the heart beat you hear during the "sonogram" scene was supposed to be the baby's. That all well and good except that it is way way too slow to be a baby's! It was slower than most normal heart beats! Another discrepancy on the part of the little mindwarper?
There was a sign posted on J.Coleman's dorm room door that said, "Hate bombs hunt you down" - wonder what that means (considering the pyramid bomb that almost got the sleuths in one of their next scenes)
And more black and red attire!! It is everywhere - Isabel's running pants, Isabel's pillows, the playmate's outfit, Isabel's and Max's shirts, Kyle's shirt, Maria's shirt and pants, etc. The only ones who didn't wear red and black in this ep were Liz and Tess

Before I finish my rambling, someone asked (perhaps on the last thread) about the way Alex's instruments were set up (when Maria was taking pics of them). Well, I happened to watch part of "Sting: Behind the Music" and the instruments (big bass, a couple electric guitars/basses) were set up the same way! Maybe that is just the "proper" way to photograph basses?

Hey happy belated birthday QFANNY~
ckkitten--I agree it was supposed to look FORCED and Jason Behr did an amazing job making it look FORCED(thankyou JB) my stomach was queasy but I was able to watch because of this LOL!!!!

Shapeshifter very interesting info on T GREER
ROSWELLDIVA--I have to go back and look again at that guy in the dorm--his colors-red and yellow--UNIVERSAL FRIENDSHIP LEAGUE????? Good catch on the following!!!

Aldebaran---I am so glad someone else can see this RED AND BLACK and some WHITE too!!!!Its amazing how dominant the color is once you catch on isn't it?

I noticed the info about the diamonds and the pokergame b/n Mr. Parker and Max....I have no clue if this was posted before but...

Diamonds in cartomancy mean "The first suit in the deck, symbolizes Spring and its element Air. Diamonds are ambitious, energetic, outgoing cards with initiative and enthusiasm. Diamonds represent the intellect, and energy Drives are expressed in a logical, clear thinking way. That sounds like Liz at some points.

as for the poker game...

Max had a 9 of Diamonds that can either mean new interests or obstacles....

2 of diamonds can mean ideals and experiences of both partners are needed to create a productive whole....

he also had two prominent Aces....that can mean Marriage, an affair or Union....

Just for fun I noticed that Mr. Parker had 3 Jacks---which means a disharmony in the family(remember this is the episode where he thought Liz was doing drugs!)

Forgot to say---I was on the silverhandprint.com site and I noticed that on the prom memory cards Isabel and Alex's colors were red and Black....

also on Tess' card it says "You are my design" in re: to Max...

On the prom king and queen everyone listed Hannah Salinger second---EXCEPT for Tess....could that mean something, she wrote it down differently then the rest of them...

I looked up the necklace and I noticed that in the center of it I believe is an opal(i've heard the Roswell beauty Divas call it the same thing) So here are some stories that have to do with Opals
"There is in them a softer fire than the ruby, there is the brilliant purple of the amethyst, and the sea green of the emerald - all shining together in incredible union. Some by their splendor rival the colors of the painters, others the flame of burning sulphur or of fire quickened by oil." Opal was much loved and valued highly "
This opal was said to guard the regal honor.
Napoleon gave Josephine a beautiful opal with brilliant red flashes called "The burning of Troy," making her his Helen.
Shakespeare found in the opal a symbol of shifting inconstancy, likening play of color to play of mind
The heroine of the novel has her life force caught in the beautiful opal she wears in her hair and she dies when the fire in the opal is extinguished.
Queen Victoria loved opals and often gave them as wedding presents

First, to Qfanny!

roswelldiva- (about the pictures of that guy at the concert) Wow, I can't believe you caught that, I just checked my tape, that is definitely the same guy. While we're talking about him, when he first came into the empty dorm room where Maria and Liz were investigating, didn't he say he was room mates with Rey? If that was his dorm, why was it empty???

Another thing I noticed while rewatching, I remembered how someone mentioned the dorm guy wearing the colors of the Universal Friendship League, well, on the guy's shirt, it says (around a circle) Universal, but I can't see the rest because its covered by his bookbag. And doesn't the guy kind of resemble that creepy guy from Harvest a little bit? The first one M/I/T/L encountered, who gave them directions to the UFL headquarters?

Also, sorry I forgot who mentioned this, about the music playing (when Max notices the heart with his name that Tess drew in the news paper)I noticed how creepy it was, too. It really freaked me out. I thought they might have played it because of Tess's collapse, but it seemed as though it started too early fot that. Very strange.

And did anyone else notice the look on Tess's face when Max and Liz were fighting and Max says to Liz: "so Tess killed Alex, is that your theory?" She made a very weird expression.

Some of you where wondering about the unicorn refrence. I caught that immediatly......of course that's because I've loved unicorns from childhood. I think there is significance in that the playmate liked unicorns. Why not cats or bunnies? So here is a little unicorn mythology.
Traditionally unicorns are considered a wild, beautiful, pure, and untameble beast. The unicorns horn, alicorn, was believed to obtain magical healing powers. some stories say that when a unicorn dipped its horn in impure or poisoned water that it would make the water pure again. There where only two ways to capture a unicorn. The first was to have a huntsman stand in front of a tree and taunt the unicorn. The unicorn would charge and at the last minute the huntsman would jump out of the way. The unicorn, unable to stop, would embede its horn in the tree.
The second and most commonly known way (and the most important to us as Mythologists) was to have a virgin maiden, knowingly or unknowingly, sit in the forest and sing to the unicorn until, lulled by the song, it came and layed its head upon the maidens lap and fell asleep. Then it would be captured.
A little peice of information most people don't know is that in medival art the unicorn was sometimes associated with Christ and the maiden with the Virgin Mary.
Any way, I think this defenitly is a clue that Max (the unicorn) is being conjoled by Tess (the maiden) into an ultimate betrayal.

RW

Hello Oh thank you so much for looking that up!! Yay! So its him huh? I wasn't really sure and these are the times I really hate not taping these things . I was actually using the cap for the funny screencaps thread and I saw the little circle thing look like the other t-shirt but I wasn't sure if it was a University shirt or something common like that. Thats why Serena/Leanna ran off when she looked at Liz and Maria's way, she was running from him. About him being Alex's roomie, I think he just said that they were on the same floor? Cause he said something about them only being a few doors from each other and that they were the only ones around during summer or something like that

Whats funny is that Alex was using the name 'REY' and in Spanish that means King . I bet anything now that its Kivar who was possessing him. Fits nicely into the Isabel and all the men around her being possessed. Since the guy looked like Grant and I think he was being possessed by Kivar too I fingured his look alike might be as well ...

RE: Clothes the only thing I found really funny is that Michael was wearing that Cross symbol on his basketball shirt and it sort of looked like the Switzerland cross and how he was also remaining sort of 'neutral' in the scheme of things since he was both on the and Liz's side of the 'war'.

Also QUESTION: Is Jodie Ann or what ever the playmate of the year's name is actually a playmate from the real playboy? Anyone know? I just thought she looked a little flat chested. Now I'm no expert but I just thought all centerfolds had huge plastic boobs. Anyone know?

Anyway, someone posted (maybe on the CHADs Thread?) that when Liz and the Geek guy sit down at the computer to see if they can hack into Alex/Ray's work, the screen saver is a binary code not unlike the one from the Thai food credit card receipt signature. I rewatched, and the sequence is not identical, but it is similar.

I tried to set Roswellian thoughts aside for a bit; though my wife wouldn’t believe it, and deemed it impossible anyway, and proved right, again. The motel office window was hexagonal, like the entry of Atherton’s house. The picture on the wall of our room was of a heron among reeds – three cattails on one side, one on the other. We began to walk to the beach; within a few paces the sidewalk detoured around a telephone box numbered 555. At the Lewis and Clark salt works where we always stop, I noticed they used 5 kettles. (Later at a hillside park we saw 5 eagles circling.) In the beach sand, the first footprints we came upon had a 3-diamond pattern. Promptly, my wife switched to a different path through the beach grass. That one’s footprints had orbs instead.

At this point I bethought me, surely coincidence is more prevalent than I imagined. Moreover, have not Qfanny and shapeshifter shown that (with but a little arithmetic) Roswellian connections can purport to be discovered in their birthdates or the Nebraska football scores? And does it not happen that my own birth was in that Summer of ’47, even the same date as Ms. Topolsky’s? It may be that I have erred in posting overmany observations of doubtful significance. How are such matters to be judged?

After much walking along the shore our steps turned to a nearby village market. One shop especially being noted for curious things, I entered straightway with keen anticipation. And what was to be seen there this time? Behold, Alex’s “clock.”

http://store.thetech.org/kinsolsys.html

Is this not the same thing pointed out in Alex’s room by aldebaran and Zara (thread #40 pp1-2), that spins back and forth unevenly like the balance wheel of a clock measuring distorted time? This contrivance (the shopkeeper said) is a Kinetic Sculpture from an artificer called Carlisle (of Nevada), and its name is Tri-Illusion.

Nemo-isn't it funny how you go on vacation but you take the show and all its mysteries with you LOL!!!! Unbelievable about the CLOCK!!! Alternate time zone??? hmmm????

Liz and Max at war and the whole world is out of balance--YES!!!

Okay a couple of more observations from as early as 285 South---in this episode Topolsky sends a message "TENSION IN THE RANKS...." at the bottom where the computer says ENCRYPTED below are none other than binary code 0001101.....I don't know if they are in the right order but definitely 0's and 1's and when she sends the message a blue and white line comes across the screen much like the blue line on the BUS that LEANNA may have jumped on??????? hmmmm?????
I don't know what it means but I could not help but connect the symbolism so I thought I would share!!!!

Zara

Zara-TRI-ILLUSION----and its RED AND BLACK!!!!!!!!!

or ?

I have a feeling he is both.I think he may be a bad guy who has fallen in love with Liz and I personally think thats cool.

"HAPPY MOTHERS DAY" to all the Moms out there. May you all be spoiled rotten today, including myself.

It always drives me crazy when they show us anything written because I just know it's a big clue. So first off we had the Binary code. We have turned this one over a few times with not much to show for, so I'll toss on another log.

I have already mentioned the number 1 behind Kyle. So are we to assume that Kyle represents this number? Do you remember when Deputy Hanson called Sean a 0. So are we to assume that this number represents Sean? Now do you see what I see? Kyle "1" and Sean "0" they either make a perfect 10, or they are connected to the binary code. I guess this could mean they belong to the same system, but are they on the good team or the bad? I know more questions.

Now on this pic you see "Real" with quote marks, I'm guessing here that Alex is telling Maria, "I'm in the real world and you're living in a world of illusion." Another thing was Alex mentioning the guy he met. He said that one out of three ain't bad and that they are not much of a team. So could this guy Alex met be one of the Dupes? Could he mean Rath? He is the only male out of the three. Is Rath in Roswell? Again with more question, but just possibly a few connections.

Evid

Here's another example of 3 + 1. This time the "1" has the extra documentation of being singular.

What does this mean? Four podsters but one's different? Four Royals, but one king?

Here's another example of 3 + 1. This time the "1" has the extra documentation of being singular.

What does this mean? Four podsters but one's different? Four Royals, but one king?

Or the 'real' royal 4 (Max, Michael and Isabel plus Liz!).

Re. Sean, I still think he was let out early by someone official (FBI, Eric Lubetkin) to find out what's going on with Liz and her friends. I do agree he may have fallen for Liz and may be re-evaluating his role. Did anyone else notice his strange reaction to the kiss from Liz in ITL&ITB, could it have been guilt about what he is doing? I thought he would have been happier that she voluntarily kissed him and it was more than a quick peck of gratitude. And as for his story that the sherrif put in a good word to get him off with just community service, I don't buy it.

Nemo, Your wife is a saint to put up with your Roswellianess. But thanks for clarifying Alex's sculpture for us, and Happy Mother's Day to her!
Yesterday I was shopping in a mall with my teen daughter when she commented on needing exercise. I immediately thought of Max saying to Isabel in MTD, "Your only exercise used to be the escalator at the mall," and of course I had to share it with her. I think she put up with it only because it was the day before Mothers' Day.

OH! (duh) That is pretty good...

1) She was really disturbed by the sight of Ava and how she could have turned out like that. The only way that would have happened was if there was a chance she could have grown up in the NY sewers with the other dupes. I will not be surprised if she turns out to be the real dupe Ava.

I suspect Nasedo found the fourth hybrid in the pod chamber and took her back to NY. He chose to take Ava with him, when he realised that she was the one with the skills and ruthlessness to help him get off the planet. I think his experiences with humans had jaundiced him to such an extent that he was desperate to go home so he encouraged Tess' fantasies about Max and their past love. I think the mating, and the faked pregnancy were planned from the beginning. He was too eager to push Max and Tess together and he did not tell her about the 1 month gestation, they planned that one together.

2) She described Nicholas 'ruining everything'.

I don't think she's working with him. I think she sees him as a threat to her agenda. Her firewarp in Wipeout always struck me as motivated more by the desire to protect the whereabouts of the granilith than Max. She appeared to become really distressed when she thought Nicholas was going to discover it's location, thus thwarting her plans to use it to go home. There's no way that Nicholas would have helped her to achieve that once he had it's location. Also, I think Nicholas knows her true identity, thus the trusting the wrong people comment.

3) She described the dupes as having a positive impact on her life and how she learned so much from them.

I suspect that she either knew who she was before MITC, discovered it from accessing Rath and Lonnie's memories when she fought them off or made a deal with them when they told her the score. I would not be surprised to see those two again before the end of the season. Their sudden disappearance was just too much of a chad otherwise.

4)She spoke about her growing ability to use her skills in a different way and how they have been practicing. She also mentioned the temptation to use her gifts in everyday life.

If she is mindwarping, how long has this been going on? Has she tried it out in small ways for some time until she is sufficiently skilled enough to sustain it for longer than anyone suspects or to use it in a way that is undetectable?

Nasedo and Tess probably figured out that Max was the true king and Zan the dupe, thus their appearance in Roswell. Once Tess got confirmation from the emissary in MITC and she realised that Max was still trusting Liz, she decided to change her tactics to get close to him. Thus the sudden personality change from ARCC. She needed to get Max to trust her and lower his guard to give her the leverage she needed to start the warp.

We have all commented on the fact that Ava appeared to be more like the Roswell 4 than the NY4, plus Liz trusted her.

Any takers?

elenac, Your points about Tess and Ava also bring to mind Whitaker's alleged confusion of Isabel with Tess regarding the identity of Vilondra. Of course, Isabel's Dupe did turn out to be Vilondra, but still...

huggybehr & Roswell behr, I would sure like to know exactly what Liz was going to ask Tess about mindwarping.
And if there was a Season 3, I could see them killing off Tess, reuniting (with great emotional pain, growth, etc.) Max and Liz, then bringing back Ava for a kinder, gentler love triangle to move the plot along.

Or, if he was Alex's Svengali, why could anyone escape? Was he just busy, groovin' to the tunes?

So, who's that guy really?

So, who's that guy really?

My money is on Grant's dupe ...
I think some poor dude getting mindwarped or *insert twilight music* ... a shapeshifter. I really think he's a skin or someone helping Kivar.

I have some screencaps for you to enjoy
An interesting image in Roswell is the use of Liz's image "faded" into another image. I am a screencap junkie and there is NO other character that is used this way. Here are a few of my favorite examples.
From Riverdog:

From Blind Date:


From Cry Your Name

And my new favorite - from Baby Its You - so is this implying that LIZ is the TRUE love Max is being warped into thinking is Tess...... I think so

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

Roswelldiva, I too thought the wierd roomate resembled Grant. Yes, he must be a skin-dupe (named Victor...)

Gracecel, I went back and studied the previous few epis. trying to concentrate on colors. I think the reason for the emphasis on black and red is to create an austere mood overall. They've been doing it periodically all along. Liz, Kyle, Michael and Maria wear a lot of browns,reds, while Is and Max wear more grey and black accented red as you noticed.

I do find it noteworthy that the yearbook coordinator, the one who says "And where is Liz, anyway?" is wearing a green dress. Apparently there are some outside the circumerance of this drama, who realize it's spring-time.

The main character who doesn't wear red, black, grey or brown, is Tess. She wears pale yellow in the conservatory. Later, after her "discovery" she dons a... (dare I say it?) BABY BLUE v-neck sweater. And when she realizes (?) the baby isn't doing well, she's wearing a dark aqua. Oh, and remember the prom? Everyone else wore red, black, brown and white except for Tess in a silver/baby- blue? Again, more food for thought as we head into the next episode. -HH

haven't been here for a while and if it was mentioned already, sorry. i was watching biy and when liz and maria were talking to that college guy about alex, he mentioned that alex "ray" ate thai food morning,noon, and night. i'm thinking that alex must have been controlled or something because.... thai food has varying degrees of spiciness. i may be off, but almost all thai food is spicy (even mild is very spicy) and there are some dishes that spicy and sweet as well.... sound familiar to anyone w/ that sweet and spicy combo?

Sorry, MD is Majandra Delfino the actress that plays Maria. Here is the thread that refers to my feelings.
http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum54/HTML/000386-2.html

There's also a Coleman in the roll call for the Father's Camping Weekend in ITW, and yes, there's a Coleman in jail with Alex & Liz in HW. So far, I haven't seen any that I would want to claim as relatives (though I like the idea of the particle physics building )! Oddly enough, Jennifer was my parents' second choice for my first name

Qfanny Happy belated birthday!!

GraceKel I've noticed the heavy red and black emphasis, too. Also, I just copied the poster from someone else's post; all she said was that it was new. Given that Michael has spiky hair I'd guess it's a newly released poster from S1.

Evid Great thoughts on the bridge! Something about that scene just really rubs me the wrong way. It seems so out of place, and the park setting is almost dreamlike, esp. with the snow. It's very idyllic, and it's a park we've never been shown before, either.

RW You have a unicorn thing too, eh? My room was plastered with unicorns when I was a teenager

Does anyone have any idea where Max and Tess are when she tells him she's pregnant? It looks like it's nighttime, near a body of water from the rippling effect behind them. But, it should be right after school b/c they're wearing the same clothes a few scenes later when Max arrives at the Valentis and confronts Liz. The only thing I can think of (besides that the conversation was all in Max's head! ) is if they were in the UFO Centre? The backdrop looks like just that--a stage backdrop, and that's the only place I could think of where there might be something like that.

And speaking of the scene where Max confronts Liz--I don't think Kyle was actually there at all, I think his appearance was a mindwarp. He appears out of the shadows after they've been arguing for a couple of minutes, as if he were waiting to jump in and provide an alibi for Tess. An alibi which is incorrect, BTW, which we've already discussed. If the conversation were beginning to head in a worrisome direction for Tess, she could have MWed Kyle's appearance, then dissolved it after Liz left. The other reason I think Kyle wasn't there is b/c he would have come running when Tess fell in the kitchen, too, if he'd been at home. Plus, Tess went to sleep for a few hours after that and Max was still there, which he would not have been if either Kyle or Jim had been home--after Max had kept her out all night, they would not have let him stay there!!

OT--both the actress who played Courtney and the actor who played Doug Shellow have bit parts in The Forsaken. I was ROTFLMAO when "Doug" came on!!
~Tas

quote:Originally posted by Roswell Angel:

I just watched my tape of Skin & Bones and I noticed something interesting.
It's at the part where they go to the University of Las Cruces. I think it's right after a commercial, when they first arrive at the University, it shows a closeup of the building they were at. On the door it says "Coleman building." I thought that was interesting because Leanna's real name is Jennifer Coleman and she goes to the University of Las Cruces.
I wonder if that has any significance. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but it's something to think about!

I say if there is any link give the girl a !

hani : it totally does look like Grant you're soo right !

shapeshifter et al., cool about the further Coleman sightings.

What does this mean? Four podsters but one's different? Four Royals, but one king?

quote:Originally posted by huggybehr:
Or the 'real' royal 4 (Max, Michael and Isabel plus Liz!).

I really like this picture (no, I hadn’t spotted the symbolism yet), and I share huggybehr’s take on it. Moreover, I suspect the fire alarm is meant to be included, so it’s really 4 + 1, or 1 + 3 + 1. Together on one wall are three posters (M/M/I?), plus something that isn’t a poster (Tess?) which is signaling a false alarm. Meanwhile, one more object that really is a poster (and marked with a 1), but on a different wall. Liz is “the one”? Even though she’s not an alien, I still suspect she may somehow have the soul of one.

Intriguing, that again a right angle -- a different dimension -- is used to set off the 3 or 4 from the 1. As with the 3 guitars + string bass, 3 timpani + bass drum, and the 3 + 1 arrangements of the purple balloons (royal purple, and matching the "clone girls") at the cafe during the Convention. Similarly, this image from White Room:
(crashdown.com)

I do not think Valenti is the Sheriff anymore. Hanson is. The reason why I think this is:

Valenti wasn’t driving the Sheriff’s SUV in CYN.
Liz said that “Max would tell Valenti and Valenti would tell Hanson.” (paraphrasing here)

I know there is another example, but it just fell out of my head!

I know the problem is that OTM was supposed to air before HOM, but I'm gonna hope TPTB had enough sense to re-edit OTM to make sense with the current storyline, and give us Dreamers a brief glimmer of hope before the season finale goes down. Otherwise OTM is not going to make any sense.

Just my dream.

It looks like they've solved this problem by redoing Maria's chalkboard spot at the beginning. You can find it at thewb.com. She's talking about how she, Michael and Liz ave just about solved the mystery of who killed Alex, but there was something that happened a few weeks ago she forgot to mention. She goes on to say that if we watch carefully we'll see some pretty obvious clues as to who's behind it all...

Works for me...

Okay, gotta go, so leave you guys with this from the Catholic Encyclopedia at http://newadvent.org/cathen/07512b.htm quote:The royal foundation fell somewhat into decay in the time of Charles I, but afterwards recovered some of its ancient splendour, chiefly in the beginning of the seventeenth century, when Doña Ana de Austria, natural daughter of Don John of Austria, brother of Philip II, became its abbess in perpetuity. From the time of the secularization of church property (Leyes de Desamortización) its support and conservation has been the care of the sovereigns of Spain.

Tasyfa, it hadn't occured to me that Max and Tess are talking by the water in the dark. The sun must set quite late there this time of year; what's going on with TIME? Something is very wrong. You're on to something, and it is more like a nightmare. The thought gives me the creeps.

ITA about the Valenti scene. I know I keep going on about it, but I think Tess really pulled out all the stops to go against Liz at that point. When Liz first appeared at the door and Tess asked "Are you here about me and Max?" Liz looked at her strangely. I wondered if Tess was even trying a probe to see if she could get inside Liz's head, but Liz looks at her and says "... NO."

You're so right about Kyle's mysterious appearance. The real Kyle would have supported Liz with Max attacking her like that. Instead, he just watches her leave without saying a word. He's mechanical, like a robot. The door closes and he asks in a monotone, "Is everything all right?"

No, Kyle, I don't think it is.... -HH

Just had a couple things to mention..

1.) I heard an ad this morning on the radio for "Tonight on the WB" and they promo'd 7th Heaven and then DIDN'T promo Roswell (like they usually do). I don't want to panic, but tomorrow's the day we're supposed to hear about Season 3 and well.. that didn't seem like a good sign!

2.)
quote:Originally posted by Zara:
It looks like they've solved this problem by redoing Maria's chalkboard spot at the beginning. You can find it at thewb.com. She's talking about how she, Michael and Liz ave just about solved the mystery of who killed Alex, but there was something that happened a few weeks ago she forgot to mention. She goes on to say that if we watch carefully we'll see some pretty obvious clues as to who's behind it all...

Works for me...

At least THIS gave me a little hope. The idea of getting some answers to the many.. many.. MANY.. questions we all have is VERY exciting!!

When was the last time Max and Tess had a real conversation in broad daylight? Even in the stadium discussing Alex, they're not out on the bleachers where Isabel usually goes, but rather hiding in the shadows underneath. It's always dark when they discuss important matters. Rewatching Baby, It's You, the scenes in Valenti's house coincide with Liz, Maria and Michael at the university. But for the three detectives it's clearly daytime, and for Max and pregnant Tess, it feels like it's after dark.

I don't know whether the planet Antar has anything to do with the star Antares, and we used to think our alien friends were from a different galaxy, but that was last year....

"After Brody (guest star Desmond Askew) is altered by an electrical surge, he remembers his alien abduction and takes Max (Jason Behr), Tess (Emilie de Ravin) and Maria (Majandra Delfino) hostage for answers. In an effort to save everyone and 'heal' Brody, Max inadvertently see his past life and love for Tess. "

Max sees his past life for T ??? Please oh please let this mean that we're FINALLY going to see the inside her! It's the only thing that could make me right now, considering all this talk of the Big "C".

I think it was symbolic, but not necessarily because of Max's (or the other hybrids, minus Tess) want to stay on Earth. I think it was symbolic for Max's current conundrum.

Fire alarm goes off = Tess tells Max she's pregnant

Fire alarm is a false alarm = Tess isn't really pregnant. It's either part of a big old deception or she's simply not pregnant?

Max's feet are stuck to the floor = Max is frustratingly obligated to Tess now due to this pregnancy... not realizing Tess really isn't pregnant?

Max's feet are stuck to the floor because of Isabel's prank = Max is stuck in a ridiculous, unexpected situation directly caused by an outside party? Tess is lying to him about both the sex and the prengancy, but since Max doesn't know this - he's obligated to her now? His feet are stuck on the *(Tess?) mindwarp* floor?

Melodious

-----------------
Latet anguis in herba
~Vergil

Lot's of fun stuff being discussed! I especially like the Antares map Gidget FL! Thanks for posting that! Maybe someone was doing their homework on some of this stuff after all!

I don't have much to add, though I'm looking forward to seeing how they integrat Off the Menu into the current storyline! Should be fun to analyze!

Till later - we will probably be on a new thread by midnight tonight! I wish I had time to complete the Intro up-date, but I've been so swamped with REAL life - but I'm going to really try before Departure airs!

OT - Any "X-file" fans watch last nights show? Very INTERESTING storyline going on there in light of our discussions comparing Liz to the Virgin Mary!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz - and Maria and Kyle - can find it and save the Pod Squad!)

brainchick: You must be looking for The Cutting Room Floor, here's the address.
http://www.roswellscripts.com/

Evid

The thing is, is Liz's power more of a testamount to her importance to the Podsters and less of an effect from Max healing her? (since her great grandmother was able to do the same thing-- Max's help could've been more to due with GC being in a weakened state/dying, thus giving her more strength, enabling GC to project).

The thing is, is Liz's power more of a testamount to her importance to the Podsters and less of an effect from Max healing her? (since her great grandmother was able to do the same thing-- Max's help could've been more to due with GC being in a weakened state/dying, thus giving her more strength, enabling GC to project).

Does this make sense?

BTW - I still think that the UFO is buried under the UFO center.

You need to check out this thread: Wink, wink;
http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/007452.html

The RBI wants to be in the crashdown yearbook.

I'm trying SO hard NOT to give up hope that TPTB are simply going to tie this all up with one pretty bow and ship the Pod Squad off to Antar without revealing SOMETHING, but it's hard. Does anyone else get the feeling that T isn't the ? That those 4 (M/M/I/T) just shoot off in their space ship next week and everything comes to an end in Roswell?

PLEASE! Say it isn't so!!! Please tell me T is the - please tell me Lis is important - and PLEASE tell me that Max really Liz and that ALWAYS wins out in the end! PLEASE!?!?

I was paying close attention to the eppy, but didn't really see anything that I honestly felt would constitute as a "key" to anything (as Maria said would seemingly be in this ep, if we watched carefully).

I did find a few things odd however....

~When Tess first appeared in the UFO Center... Where was she coming in from? She didn't seem to be going down the stairs, but from behind them? Is there more than one entrance to the UFO Center? Granted, I probably need to watch the ep again, but that just gave me a creepy feeling... the music that was playing just before Tess appeared on the scene also rather creeped me out.

Another thing... was Tess in there before or after the UFO Center "lockdown"? According to Valenti, the moment the lights went out in the Center... the automatic locks activated. Michael also had to use his powers to open the door. Granted, Tess has powers too and could have easily opened the locked door to the Center as Michael did... but then that makes me go back to WHEN she came in again. We see Max (who was presumedly working at the time of the blackout) walking up to the fuse box with a flashlight. Tess walks up from *behind* the stairs, not down them. HOW LONG was she in the Center before she made herself known to Max??

~So I assume Sean was just scratched (twas a flesh wound, sorry, Monty Python moment ). Although I thought it was a little weird that one second he's on the floor seemingly unable to get up and the next scene he's standing, leaning against some file cabinet -more or less- fine. Like I said, it was probably just a flesh wound and after a few moments he was able to walk around well enough, if not perfectly fine. In any case, I'm inclined to like Sean, whatever he is or I'm suspecting he is. He seems like a sweet guy, especially for protecting Liz like that.

One more thing about Sean and I'll drop it, but did any of you get kind of a weird vibe from Sean telling Brody-Larek that Liz was just an "innocent girl", she's not an "alien"? Perhaps I'm alone with this, but it just seemed kind of odd to me.

~If those were indeed Larek's memories Max was seeing when he healed Brody-Larek... why would Larek seemingly "remember" how Tess/Max look like now? Wouldn't Larek.... of all people... remember creepy glowy, bug-eyed alien creatures??

~I don't know if this was mentioned after the M/T memory retrieval stuff after HOM but... the seemingly (blood) red Antarian/Twilonian water. ::shivers:: That red water made me think of this particular passage from the Bible:

And the LORD spake unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and stretch out thine hand upon the waters of Egypt, upon their streams, upon their rivers, and upon their ponds, and upon all their pools of water, that they may become blood; and that there may be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in vessels of wood, and in vessels of stone.
--Exodus 7:19

This would be the FIRST plague of Egypt if I recall, of the ten.

quote:Since WHEN can Tess ERASE people's memories? She just took Amy Deluca's memories and replaced them with nothing!

I was wondering what happened to Amy Deluca at the end of this eppy. Tess can erase memories now and replace them with new ones? Mindwarps are more like a "distraction" are they not? Tess sort of occupies minds with false imagery for a short time (ex/ Tess mindwarping/"distracting" the techs/Whitaker in S&B while Max entered the cyclotron). What Tess did to Amy... I suppose it could constitute as a mindwarp to some extent, but not. IMO, what Tess did to Amy wasn't a mindwarp, it was consciously ERASING Amy's memories of the events of that night and then replacing NEW (false) memories in her head. What an interesting and rather convenient new power we discover that girl has.

Melodious

Twas a flesh wound - LOL

Roxy

Why wouldn't Brody/Larek remember Sidney? Larek and Brody are BOTH aware of Sidney I presume, obviously Brody is. Larek I'd assume would know EVERY detail of Brody's life, would he not? There would be NO reason why Brody/Larek would NOT remember Sidney... am I right? Or was there someone else in Brody's head besides Larek?

In addendum to my Tess observations above... watching the ep again at the moment, Tess says right out that the entire town's lights are out and Max checking the fuse box wouldn't do any good. So she would have been OUTSIDE of the UFO Center BEFORE the black out to know the entire town was in darkness. Hence, she came in AFTER the lockdown presumedly. Which is fine I suppose, considering she DOES have powers - and like Michael - could have easily opened the locked UFO Center door. I still think it's odd however how she came out from BEHIND the stairs and not like she was going down them.

Melodious

And everybody looked human because... ummm... there's a translation between Larek and his "shadow" in Brody's mind. That's how Larek speaks English like Brody, and can move Brody's unfamiliar body. The "shadow" knows...

Departure. OK, the Toad Network's promo dep't. lies like a rug. We saw Maria embracing Michael, but all we saw were arms around Max. Whose arms? We didn't see.

George W is not an

if it's not a CLUE that there were several mind warps, i don't know what else isn't.
~the sudden change in brody's facial expressions from angry to almost joyful when he recounts how zan and ava met and during that time tess's eye's were closed?
~funny how max got the images of max and tess during the healing of brody and the device has been shut off.
~so now she has addition powers to the mind control? like erasing memories. if you can erase, what's to say that you can't plant another in?
~and why only is amy's memory erased and not sean? even if liz is agreeing to go out w/ sean to shut him up, i would take the extra insurance and wipe out his memory.

just where did brody get that virtual program and how did he remember even that summit meeting?
how do you get an alarm for memory capacity is full when he is only running the simulator.

~forshadowing.. the virtual game flashing memory overload and then tess makes the reference that there's too many memories going on in brody's head, when she tries to mind warp him.
~why would liz question the mind warp powers of tess last week and then we see more of tess's powers.
~shooting at the refuge sign and it's focus on it for more than a couple of seconds.
~a lot of reds and yellows, esp those "flashes" when brody was healed.

hm..still have to ponder.

if the device is there to disarm the aliens? why would it be included as a device on the space ship? if it harms the podster and render them defenseless, why have it on board? is there a different combination for the different alien races?

Melodius~ Valenti SPECIFICALLY mentions that there is only one entrance to the UFO center because it used to be a fallout shelter.

Shaiwon~ Max does work at the UFO center. Though lately most of his hours seem to be done offscreen, he's worked there for over a year now. Everyone knew he was at the UFO center.

One of the first shots was of that little alien doll which I believe has been discussed before. In fact, that doll showed up A LOT and Brody/Larek even referred to it as Tess's cousin. For some reason that alien doll just really stuck out a lot to me in this episode.

There is now evidence that Tess can not only mindwarp, but alter memories. And the way she describes it when she can't MW Brody, is, I think, pretty creepy. She talks about how she can't get into his mind. While I wish that Tess wasn't evil, the writers sure have done a lot to make me suspect her!

Did anyone else find that last scene between Max and Tess, really really creepy? It started out kind of sweet, but the last shot was of them through the window and there was ominous music ... it was as if they were being watched again. Anyone else agree with me?

One thing I wanna know is WHY doesn't anyone ever use doors? What's with the window thing? I don't think there's one character that hasn't gone through a window at some point, and some of them use windows exclusively! Okay, done with that mini-rant.

So what was the key to it all? This episode seems to suggest emissarying and mind warping. Or maybe had been emissaried and then something happened that enabled him to have access to the part of his brain only his emissary ever used? Tess is definitely suspect. Even Max's 'memories' of their planet could have been a mindwarp.

Oh yeah -- and Tess didn't play with Sean's memory. Wouldn't he find it strange that Amy doesn't remember what actually happened?

Have to point out that Max told Brody to shoot him instead of Liz. And hopefully the fact that Sean was able to save Liz and he wasn't was something of a wake up call.

Arg, I don't know how I'll be able to wait for next week's episode! BTW, they're still calling it the SEASON finale and not the SERIES finale. Since aparently the WB has decided to drop Roswell, I'm mad at them for playing with my emotions like that.

Can't wait to hear what everyone else has to say!

z.a.
*Dreamer and part-time Candy Girl*

I thought I already was on the light side. After all, it's Tess who's strolling out of the darkness and shadows in this episode.

quote:And everybody looked human because... ummm... there's a translation between Larek and his "shadow" in Brody's mind. That's how Larek speaks English like Brody, and can move Brody's unfamiliar body. The "shadow" knows...

Uhm... right Reg. You go ahead and think that if it gives you comfort Although throwing this at you, those were the same Max/Tess flashes from Max's seeming "dreams" from last season (FOUR SQUARE? MAX TO THE MAX? Don't remember which ep). And WHAT were a good portion of us speculating those "dreams" were back then and now? I don't think I have to say it ... but.... I think we're strolling down mindwarp lane again and Tess is our personal tour guide.

Chronologically... the events in this ep happened in between VIVA LAS VEGAS and HEART OF MINE. So whatever "discoveries" in OTM spill into HOM, CYN, ITL and BIY. Obviously culminating in whatever happens in DEPARTURE. How is this all going to end?

Melodious

Max was very direct when he told Tess that the things that Larek/Brody said were not real and that he did not love her. Funny how that seemed to change after he healed Brody/Larek and how Liz started to notice Sean more.

It really creeped me when Tess told Max that everything Larek said was true. I need to watch it again to verify if that was after Brody/Larek had said that Liz was an alien.

I also think Tess did come from behind the stairs or somewhere else, it just seemed really strange that she showed up after the outage had occured and knew already what it was. Did she cause it somehow?

I noticed that when Jim tells Kyle to go get the layout of the UFO center, he says it is in the back part of the library - can someone tell me, is that not where Tess found the 'Book'?

Notice that Tess says she can't get into Brody's mind that it is too full, but it is after she tries that Brody really becomes Larek and starts to remember Max as Zan and the other things. Funny how his description of their meeting Tess is very similar to the one that Tess gave a while back (don't remember which ep).

Did Tess erase Sean's memories also? I don't think so or at least they didn't hint that he had.

I noticed that when Max heals Brody/Larek, he sees he and Tess kissing and she has her hand on his head and she has a watch on. I didn't know that they wore watches on Antar.

I think it is possible that Tess has been erasing Max's memories of Liz and replacing them with her as the object of his affection. But the link between Max and Liz is so strong that Tess has had to fall back to the pregnant game. SHe wants to go home and she will do whatever it takes, even if it does mean that they are going to a place where they will be killed upon arrival.

Does she think that they will get there and no one will notice these half human half alien beings.

I think I need to watch this a few more times.

TTFN

There you are then. Tess was definitely coming out from BEHIND the stairs when she approached Max. As she approached she walked *past* the stairs, it was obvious. I've seen this scene about 10 times now and in slomo. Now this could possibly be just a continuity error or something, but this almost suggests to me she was in the UFO Center *before* the power surge. Tess was THERE in the conference from MITC as we know... did she overhear Brody talking to himself during the VR? For whatever reason, she tries to stop him remembering, attempts to mindwarp him (as we know from DB [?], Hybrid powers on an emissaried human doesn't work very well) and it goes awry (powerful energy surge knocks out the lights in the town)? Or was she specifically attempting to HARM Brody? If either is the case... why??

If she was in the UFO Center BEFORE the power surge, how did she know the whole town was blacked out?

quote:While I wish that Tess wasn't evil, the writers sure have done a lot to make me suspect her!

Word zeroAutumn! I've been getting this *creepy* vibe from Tess since HOM. Now we learn in OTM that she seemingly can erase memories? The events in OTM happening BEFORE HOM. HOM began the memory retrieval stuff between Max and Tess. I have a very distinct feeling on where they're going with all of this....and honestly, it doesn't look pleasant *at all* where Tess is concerned.

quote:Did anyone else find that last scene between Max and Tess, really really creepy? It started out kind of sweet, but the last shot was of them through the window and there was ominous music ... it was as if they were being watched again. Anyone else agree with me?

Very creepy.

Melodious

How did Tess relock the door from inside the UFO Center? Remember, she came from behind the stairs (immediately after the blackout, I might add) and said power was out all over town. Then when Michael and Isabel came over, Michael used his powers to unlock the door...but Valenti said that the doors locked as soon as the power went out...so if Tess was outside then she had to use her powers to unlock the doors. How, and why would she relock them once she got inside??? (If Michael had to point his hand at the little keypad to open the door, then Tess would also...and to relock it) *also, my mom insisted the doors could have locked when Max flipped the backup power on, but that makes no sence to me, wouldn't the doors unlock if the power came back on??*
*ok...so Tess unlocked the door (if she did come in after the blackout) and that is how the DeLuca's got into the UFO Center...but that still does not explain how the door got relocked, since Max turned the power on before the DeLuca's got there. (ie unless its a CHAD, the back up power couldn't have locked the door, because then how would the DeLuca's get in?)*

the whole memory thing...ummm...Tess closed her eyes at a convenient moment there didn't she? Right about the time Brody started talking about the swimfest and true love. Very interesting. Especially in light of Tess erasing Amy's memories later, and obviously planting memories of them being locked in due to the power outage...

Stepford Max very much in evidence at the end in Tess's bedroom. Just sort of standing there like Lurch until she says his name twice to get him to acknowledge her...he wasn't even looking at her either, if you notice the orientation of the bed when he turns towards her, he was looking at the door...

I am sure I will have more beef with this epi after a second watching.

Val

U are so correct i looked in my astronomy book and Antaries is also a RED GIANT which is a star nearing the end of its life cycle and u remember in sexual healing liz had flashes of a red giant and she stated that. however because its nearing the end of the life cycle wouldn't the Antarians be looking for another place to live?????

If tonight's episode chronologically falls between VLV and HOM (which I believe is what they were trying to tell us) then where was Alex in OTM? He's already back from "Sweden", rather Las Cruses. I think it if rather interesting that the character we know dies in the future is already missing in action.

HELLO!!!!!! The is soooo mindwarping just about everyone, except probably our lady Liz. Lovely little discovery about being able to substitute people's memories. Obviously this is a set up for what she starts to do to Max in HOM. After Max says he never was in love with the , I'm figuring she got her wake up call that she was never going to snag him by simply being his former wife (if that's even true). But that it was going to require some more manipulative strategy to break his bond with Liz and forge a relationship with her. Hence the mindwarp.

BTW wasn't the water in HOM memory retrieval BLUE jello?!! Or maybe this is a CHAD and I should post it over on that thread. Consistency, please! Take that stepford Max away and give me my real Max. I miss him.

Also when I Grace Kelled the mind warp in Max to the Max, the last frame went white and had a faint pencil sketch of a woman's face. Has anyone ever noticed that before?

Rooney

Not unless T deleted them ? If you watch carefully he says he started to remember images from the Larek so he DID remember at first. T supposedly doesn't do anythign because his mind is too full HA!? Then hello right after Liz and Michael realize they couldn't use their powers next scene Michael is cooking hamburgers with his powers !!! T DEFINATELY was mindwarping in the first degree.

The fact she deleted Mrs. DeLuca's memory is just more proof she might have deleted Liz form Max's ...or something along those lines.

roswell angel : HEY! no prob

One thing that sold me on the mindwarping, was when Brody/Larek "remembered" Zan's first time at seeing his *cough* wife, Tess had her eyes closed practically the entire time. From the audience point of view, this is how she used her powers in S1 when she was mindwarping. Those memories were being planted, provoked by Tess. NO DOUBT IN MY MIND!! It is to bad that we had to suffer HOM, ITLAITB, as well as BIY questioning what is going on. OTM was a STRONG case on Tess's evilness!!

yeah...he did. When he was on the phone with Valenti, he said "I can tell the difference between humans and aliens." then a second later he said something about them "sending in aliens"

I really enjoyed this episode with it's placement out of order!

That is Zero falling off the fence (white, of course) BIG time! Tess is evil , no question in my mind now - and Mel - you took all words out of my mouth already (and zeroAutume, too). Tess definitely does NOT lose her powers - and is mind warping Brody/Larek! AND now we know she has expanded her mind control powers. I would never have been on the fence if I had seen this episode in order - I guess that is why I like that it was out of order - because I did have doubts until now!

I don't have much to add - on first viewing - that hasn't been covered by Mel and all! But Tess "appearance" from behind the stairs did immediately jump out at me as strange - leading me to believe that she might have had something to do with the power outage. Oh - and we never did get to see the dang "V"-neck sweater! Umm... A "V"-neck! Now where have we seen a V before!

The Brody/Larek "memories" were so obviously a mindwarp to me - and I agree - if they were "true" memories than they NEVER would have looked like their HUMAN DNA DONORS! (With a WATCH! TOO FUNNY!)

I also thought it strange that Tess would Change Amy's memories, but not Sean?? Just because Liz agreed to go out with him - he still saw and heard all that stuff! Now we know why Liz went out with him! I still like Sean, but I'm beginning to wonder about him again! I hope he is a good guy! But I loved how Liz was mad at Max for causing Sean's injury!

Finally, I also thought the last scene was ODD!! Max was in Full-blown Stepford Max mode there - and it did seem to be that someone was watching them. Oh, zeroAutumn - I had a mini-rant about everyone going through windows a while back, so you are in good company!

Off to sleep !
If we get near 250 - please be patient! I will set up the new thread in the morning - Pacific Coast time!
OR Shapeshifter - feel free to start it under my name - and I will repost a new beginning when I get to it!

Zero
I Shall Believe (more than ever)!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz, and Maria and Kyle, can find it, and save Max, Iz and Mikey G!)

The fact that Tess has probably not messed with Liz's mind may be significant. Perhaps Liz is stronger than Tess's minipulative powers. Just a thought.

I also would have like to see Liz try to use her "changes" to try to heal Sean's little scratch, just to see if she could. It's like TPTB want to forget about the Liz is changed storyline in Season Two along with the Skins. They did mention Nikolas tonight, so maybe we will see End of the World and Liz is Changed references for the next episode. PLEASE!!!!

NO, maybe? ok well its late here

Val

Val

I was wondering the exact same thing. One more CHAD to add to the list.

Reggie - George W IS TOO an alien! Boy, do we have a lot of work to do on you!

Okay - off to bed! See you all tomorrow!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz, and Maria and Kyle, can find it and save Max, Iz and Mikey G!)

We seem to be catching on to all the same clues, as in alot of MINDCONTROL going on by Tess.
One clue that pointed to mindwarp was when Liz asked Max to heal Sean and she said the stabbing was Max's fault. Liz would never ask Max to use his powers in front of everyone, not to mention Liz is smart enough to know the wound was not life threating. She also would never blame Max for the stabbing. Remember what Tess said to Max after his and Liz's supposed conversation. She said, "you still love her don't you?" Of course Max said he doesn't know what he feels for Liz. He thinks Liz is angry with him and blamed him for the stabbing, who wouldn't have doubts. It was a mindwarp by Tess to get Max to pull away from Liz. She questioned him to make sure it was working. I don't think Liz moved away from Sean at all.

Tess is going down or up all alone. Come on we all know that it was Liz that was holding Max on the promo, TPTB just love playing games with the Dreamers. Plus Michael, Maria, Iz and Kyle (I miss Alex, YES NO TESS)all look like they are ready to say, "here we go again, guys get a room."

Evid

I'm also wondering about t***'s new ability. When did she get this new power to erase people's memories? More importantly, Who has she been practicing on? I have no theories on this mind you, but I'm really curious. This obviously had to take some practice, so who did she use?

Roxy

P.S. The WB suck BIG time!!!!!! If/WHEN UPN gets it I'll say "good riddance to the WB cuz they didn't deserve our wonderful show!!!"

way past our bedtime nite all

Originally posted by bella3683:
i am coming out of lurkdom for one post because something horrible has happened to someone from this thread.
PLEASE READ
LIZMAXSEXY, AKA JAN was in a car accident earlier this evening. she was a passenger and they were sideswiped. she did not survive. PLEASE, whatever your differences may have been with her, or no matter what your feelings, i felt, as did her family, that you all should be informed of this terrible loss.
Jan was one of the sweetest people i knew...and i loved her dearly. Please, no matter what your feelings are or were for Jan, take a moment of of respect.
things like this really make you see how insignificant a little television show is.
~becca

Remember Tess said Larek's mind was too full and she couldn't get into it? I think she erased a chunk of his memory to make room for her implantation. That would explain why she was able to make Larek remember her first meeting with Max, their love, etc. She erased the part of Brody's brain that remembered the person he loved the most (Sidney)! BTW, implanting a memory of herself with Max is what caused Max to get the flashes of kissing her when he healed Brody...

I also would have like to see Liz try to use her "changes" to try to heal Sean's little scratch, just to see if she could. It's like TPTB want to forget about the Liz is changed storyline in Season Two along with the Skins. They did mention Nikolas tonight, so maybe we will see End of the World and Liz is Changed references for the next episode. PLEASE!!!!

Hey right back at ya! So far TPTB have blown a great opportunity to explore Liz's powers. But, I'm guessing that will change next week. (It better!) I also think mentioning Nicholas in OTM is significant. No one has mentioned him in the longest time, so I figure since they brought him up, then he'll show up next week. I can't hardly wait to see Max and Liz back together.

Brainchick says a prayer for Jan and her family.

AND - since we now know that T has this Mind Erasing ability.. can she ALSO IMPLANT "memories"? Obviously, no end to what this little can do!

ITA with Melodious about T coming from behind the stairs - CREEPY! If she was there when the power went out.. did she "help" with that? Did she cause it? Or is she in cahoots with whomever DID cause it.. last I knew VR isn't THAT powerful to cause the ENTIRE town of Roswell to blackout!

quote:Originally posted by brainchick:
If tonight's episode chronologically falls between VLV and HOM (which I believe is what they were trying to tell us) then where was Alex in OTM? He's already back from "Sweden", rather Las Cruses. I think it if rather interesting that the character we know dies in the future is already missing in action.

ITA!!

Finally, I'm at work and was too tired last night to rewatch the eppy TOO many times, but.. I could have sworn that T got this very creepy look on her face when Max told Brody/Larek that he was NOT in love with T and then.. Brody/Larek starts telling that story? Well, T had her eyes closed! Like she was IMPLATING those thoughts into Brody/Larek - or "feeding him a line", so to speak. Anyone else!?!?

GOOD POINT! I like it!

WOO HOO! Liz is the key that will guide Max back to memory!

If anyone has any thoughts about the sweater, I'd love to hear them. That was the thing that stood out to me even more than the subtle things. Simply for being so obvious, maybe. But what does it mean? I mean, who would just give a guy who doesn't like them a present for absolutely no reason. That is very un-cool, if you ask me. I never would.

Just added to the general weirdness of the showing up to give Max a gift and knowing that the power is out all over town in the moments just off the power outage happened, at a time when she would have been in the UFO museum. To me it all spells mindwarp because the timing is off (i.e. lost time is how the podsters describe the experience). Just my two cents.

Tess has the same powers as Nicholas I guess this is pretty much confirmed--what a great little power to have there huh!!!!

Okay from SUMMER or 47 Hal Carver says to Richard Doty "don't worry Richie you are still going to have your wife, your white picket fence, and your back yard barbecue!!!" Did anyone notice the scenery was exactly that--an alien having a backyard barbecue and of course the all important WHITE picket fence!!!!
And who is Brody/Larek referring to when he tells Tess he is borrowing her COUSIN?????or something like that!!! Who is her COUSIN?????hmmmm??????

Sean????still on the fence about Sean but one thing made me suspicious when Maria tells her mother they will be storming the place because of the coded message---Sean asks about this message--and SUDDENLY Michael can't remember anything Maria says??????????

I was also wondering how the Delucas got into the UFO center if the doors were locked? Why did Shawn not warn Michael and Isabel? Why did he ask for a burger and fries in the middle of a hostage situation/ Why did he ask Liz out on a date right after being stabbed? Why did he seem fine after being stabbed? He also seemed very protective over Liz when Brody was threating her! Why is he ok with not telling anyone about the situation? Just to go out with Liz? Seems weird to me. Was he not at a court thing when Alex died? He kinda just showed up when everything started going wrong. Where are his parents? I might have missed that!

I just dont know. I dont think Tess is working alone but who else is helping her? I can not wait to find out.

Originally posted by bella3683:
i am coming out of lurkdom for one post because something horrible has happened to someone from this thread.
PLEASE READ
LIZMAXSEXY, AKA JAN was in a car accident earlier this evening. she was a passenger and they were sideswiped. she did not survive. PLEASE, whatever your differences may have been with her, or no matter what your feelings, i felt, as did her family, that you all should be informed of this terrible loss.
Jan was one of the sweetest people i knew...and i loved her dearly. Please, no matter what your feelings are or were for Jan, take a moment of of respect.
things like this really make you see how insignificant a little television show is.
~becca

ALEXIS and BELLA3683:
I am so sorry about your friend. I remember her posting here and other places. My condolences!

Tess was clearly already in the UFO museum before the power went out, so how did she know about the lights being out all over town?

If the power outtage would cause an immediate lock down of the UFO centre, how did the Deluca's get in?

Why didn't Max or Tess warn them before they came down the stairs?

Sean asking for burgers actually made sense to me, Brody mentioned that the sheriff had asked about a list of demands, they always ask for food, usually burgers in hostage situations in movies and we know Sean likes to eat.

Did anyone else notice how Tess stuck so closely to Max's side all the time? I felt there was more to it than meets the eye.

Sean's sudden recovery from the stab wound? Liz must have thought it was life threatening for her to ask Max to risk his identity to heal him, then miraculously he's walking around?

Could those recovered memories look more fake? The rock and the red water looked like they were painted by a 5 year old.

If the passionate kissing scene came from Larek's memory, he must have been some kind of peeping tom to have seen all that.

Wasn't this episode supposed to have followed VLV originally? If so, Max and Liz's cold, unfeeling interaction made no sense to me, especially given the friendliness of Liz's interaction with Michael and Isabel, which would more logically follow from the bonding which took place in the previous episode?

All in all, I'm left with more questions than answers from this episode. Other than unequivocal proof, that Tess can erase and implant memories and there is no doubt in my mind that she would not hesitate to use this dubious gift in pursuit of her goals.

Originally posted by bella3683:
i am coming out of lurkdom for one post because something horrible has happened to someone from this thread.
PLEASE READ
LIZMAXSEXY, AKA JAN was in a car accident earlier this evening. she was a passenger and they were sideswiped. she did not survive. PLEASE, whatever your differences may have been with her, or no matter what your feelings, i felt, as did her family, that you all should be informed of this terrible loss.
Jan was one of the sweetest people i knew...and i loved her dearly.

I am very sorry for your loss. My prayers are with you.

I was surprised by Liz's uncharacteristic behavior in accosting Max about Sean's stabwound. So Evid thinks that whole Liz encounter was in Max's mind? It makes me wonder about all snappish Liz/Max encounters we've been seeing when Tess is around. I like that explanation more than character inconsistancies (especially where our LIZ is concerned!) or that Tess is making her do it.

Did anyone notice all the main characters are wearing black, red or brown except for Tess, again in baby blue? Clearly she's intended to stand apart.

And why is she always standing directly behind Max? Is it her cowardice, or does it intensify her charge?

Does anyone remember seeing Max in a black V-neck sweater since this episode? The red circle around his neck in BIY helps assure us he's not wearing it.

Oh, and the date between Liz and Sean in the beginning of HOM (with the kiss) must be the fruition of Liz's promise. She kept her word. -HH

Roxy

Did anyone else think that the scene where Max discovered Brody's helmet was strange on Tess's part. When she sees Max pick it up she looks a little nervous and she starts to hurry for it but is too late to get it before Max. Then notice how she watches Max and Liz and then gives the explanation as to how this happened to Brody. I am thinking that Tess caused Brody's injury. When we last see Brody he is on the floor. Then he is up walking around and getting a gun.

Remember in HC when they tried to contact Larek and there was an electric force of somekind and then Larek entered Brody's body. He said the body had to be prepared.

Things seemed to be off about Larek. The thing that really tipped me off is that Larek knows he isn't really here on earth and he knows why the aliens are here.

Did anyone feel that the aggressive character that we saw last night may have been some one else using Brody's body.
I also notice the frequent use of black and white during the MW attept by Tess and when Max was healing Brody. Black and white flashes are remenissant of Nacedo's evil doing.
OHHH and I noticed on my web TV's epi description of Roswell it said, "Max "heals" Brody. I thought that was strange.
I also thought that Liz behavior towards Max about Sean's injury was wierd.
Sorry all of this was so random.

Time for another thread! PLEASE take all further discussion over to the new thread #42 which should be up in about 5 minutes!

Zero

So to recap:
Tess comes from behind the stairs... pretty odd considering there's only one entrance to the UFO centre/former bomb shelter.
Tess follows Max around like the costume dept. crazy-glued her clothing to Max. She never leaves his side!
the "flashes" from Brody/Larek have to be fake. 1) fromer Max and Tess are the same dream sequence Tess forced on Max back in S1-- only thing it looks like she's wearing is a watch. 2) there's a flash of the V/royal seal that Rath drew & was pointing to with a stolen bagette in the Dupes crib, in MITC.
Tess erases Mrs. Deluca's memories, but not Sean's. whooo boy, the look on Maria's face when she realizes what Tess just did to her Mom!
Sean see's Michael & Isabel entering the UFO centre & Brody/Larek going to intercept with a gun, yet he doesn't warn them.
Along with the very creepy music, anyone else pick up on the Indian chanting music like they used in S1?

Also, the “memory” Max sees when healing Brody is really a flash of the dream Max was having last season around this time when Tess was mindwarping him. I think this is a huge clue, don’t you?

I knew there was a reason why Liz said “Mind Control” instead of “Mind Warp.”