There is never a dull moment on this thread – especially recently! We appreciate the new episodes to digest – especially with the refocus on Liz’s importance to the storyline! (Thank you JK and RM! ) Even though Heart of Mine, Cry Your Name, It’s Too Late & It’s Too Bad, Baby It’s You and Off The Menu have many inducing scenes, we have been provided tons of stuff to chat about and dissect! !! Plus – we have seen so many newbies joining into the discussion - which is wonderful! AND Departure looks to be a GREAT episode!

Feedback is always welcome! Just PM me. I will continue to let you know when I up-date the Introduction so you can head over there to read the new information when I add it in.

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Background

Basic Thesis

Just a reminder - Our basic thesis is that LIZ IS AN IMPORTANT AND ESSENTIAL ELEMENT TO THE ALIEN MYTHOLOGY!

What is Subject for Discussion?

Liz's importance to the pod squad - and the survival of the human race for that matter - and theories concerning the beings - especially Max - and mysteries swirling around Liz - are what we discuss. So - feel free to join on in, or just lurk! And don't worry about going off on a tangent - they ALL tend to lead back to Liz's importance! (Especially lately!) We are an optimistic and friendly - though seriously anal retentive - group! So - dive in, and join the fun!! But remember – NO SPOILERS! We want everyone to feel welcome!

Liz is Important - The Liz/Max Connection

Consequence of the Connection - the Change?

Origin of the Connection - Where is Liz from, really?

Granolith - How does it fit in?

Destiny - Liz and Max!

Follow Your Heart

Symbolism - WE Do Not Ignore Anything!

Chakras

Einstein's Light Cone

Chariots of Fire - Liz's Necklace in VLV

The "Bride" - will the real one please stand up!

The Books - WHY Doesn't anyone read these things?

The Catalyst - Liz!

Vision Quest - How does Liz fit in?

Time Travel - "Run, Lola, Run"

Hero Journey - Liz's Path

I wanted to add that I believe the events of the last few episodes (especially, HOM, CYN and ITL&ITB) play right into Liz’s Hero Journey!

Grandma Claudia - the first connection?

I just wanted to add here that many of us believe that that fact that the necklace Liz wore to the Prom had been Grandma Claudia’s is VERY SIGNIFICANT! Finally, a tie into GC, her Native American connection and Season 1! Now – if we could only figure out “what” the necklace was! Maybe this was a foreshadowing that GC will be the connection to the aliens that we always thought she was/is! And the computer guys from the UNM commenting that the alien symbols look Native American in origin – with Michael getting Season 1 flashbacks – was GREAT!

Lifebonds vs. Soulmates

Don’t let the current state of affairs (pun intended!) concern you – Liz and Max are soulmates and lifebond! The Truth Is Out There! And Liz will find it! (Even Maria agrees with that!) The only concern now – is will she find it in time!

Sheila Hubble - Eerie resemblance to Liz! - What's the connection?

Venus - Liz's mythical connection to the stars!

Numbers - It all adds up to Liz and Max!

Numbers keep cropping up that seem to fall into our 2, 3, 4, 5 groupings. Like the bus that Liz misses is 33_5, the bowling alley lane is 32, Max remembers 3 moons, Alex’s funeral and the concert is on 5/5 and the song at the end of Cry Your Name mentions the number 3! Also, the truck driver had 1 drink, 3 hours before! There is no way that this is just a coincidence! I will try to add as many of the numbers caught to the Intro that I can – but let’s just say that there has to be a meaning to the reoccurrence of the numbers – especially 5! Liz’s cell number is 505-555-0125! (and as Qfanny so intelligently pointed out .125 =1/8th – Ummm…! In BIY – Iz runs “5 or 6” miles now? And “Ray” was seen by his roommate at 4 am, they were the only 2 people around and they were only 5 feet away from each other. Alex’s dorm at UNM was in “Quad 4.”

Cave Map Symbols - All signs lead to Liz?

Skins - What lies below the surface?

We keep wondering where Nicko disappeared to – and Lonnie, Rath and Ava for that matter. Is it just a matter of time before Kivar shows up? Maybe – with Alex’s death – he already has?? Ummm….! Many of us think that Tess is up to her “old” tricks of mindwarping – or mind control as Liz so aptly asks about – but is Tess acting alone?? Most of us think not! And Off The Menu definitely supported our belief that Tess’ mind games have reached new lows – we now know she can not only cause an illusions but erase and replace entire memories!

Shapeshifters - Are there more than one?

Remember – Harding and Nasedo and Tic Tac are NOT all one and the same shapeshifter! I still believe that Tic Tac is out there watching over Liz!

Handholding - the symbol of the V constellation

Mythology!

Dates

Dates seem to be of extreme interest to those on this thread. So, follow the link to a rundown of dates as I've been able to gather them from episodes, official sites and factual research. If you find a date I’ve missed or see one that is wrong – PM me with the change and where you got your information! I’m always looking for new dates!

New dates added include:

1994 – Date the building in the Leanna and Alex picture was torn down (ITLITB)
12/9/2000 – Alex’s Departure for Sweden (ITLITB)
1/16/2001 – Date Leanna computer file/document created by Alex (ITLITB)
1/18/2001 – Date Alex and Leanna were supposed to be traveling to the Baltic Islands – where the mysterious building supposedly existed (ITLITB)
1/28/2001 – Alex’s Return from Sweden date (ITLITB)
4/27/2001 – Roswell Prom & Date Liz begins to start writing in her Journal again. (Heart of Mine)
5/3/2001 – Alex is killed. (Cry Your Name)
5/4/2001 – Kyle’s Birthday (18th?) (Cry Your Name)
5/5/2001 – Alex Whitman’s funeral (Cry Your Name)

In Summary

Finally, (I always have to add this - if anyone from the production staff, crew or UPN reads this or the Intro), WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LIZ/MAX CONNECTION IS CRITICAL TO THE SHOW, AND THAT TOGETHER MAX AND LIZ MAKE AN INCREDIBLE FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!! Even Ron Moore stated in the commentary for Ask Not that the "Max and Liz relationship is so strong and so central to the entire series!"

And as to the Season 3 rumors – this is a WONDERFUL show, with the potential to be another “X-files” with intimate relationships if done right! SO – please add it to your schedule UPN!! Not only will you gain an incredible show, but one of the best fan bases around! You will never look at a bottle of Tabasco the same again!

A couple of general "rules" - NO SPOILERS (even asides about spoilers are not allowed – I can’t emphasize this enough as we move towards the season finale), but anything "aired" is subject to discussion, including coming attractions/preview and things on the Silverhandprint site. Pictures are welcome, as is deleted dialog from posted scripts of shows that have been aired and commentary by writers/producers. If you know what a preview “really means” due to spoilers, please DON’T tell us – let us speculate – we will find out soon enough! Also, no discussion of the new book “Loose Ends” until AFTER the season is over – it is spoilerish! Thanks!

As Alex - true and loyal friend to Liz - said - "Gripa det dagen" (seize the day)! Liz will find the TRUTH and avenge his death!

Zero
I Shall Believe!!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz, with the help of Maria and Kyle, can find it, and save the Max, Iz and Mikey G!)

Here is the link to the full gallery - please feel free to copy the images and post them anytime you need to: http://ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/gallery.htm

The most compelling visual evidence of Liz's mythology and connection to Max is the fact that when they come together - they often form the symbol on the orb found in Sexual Healing. You saw it linked to Max and Liz and the balance they create here first!

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

I was surprised by Liz's uncharacteristic behavior in accosting Max about Sean's stabwound. So Evid thinks that whole Liz encounter was in Max's mind? It makes me wonder about all snappish Liz/Max encounters we've been seeing when Tess is around. I like that explanation more than character inconsistancies (especially where our LIZ is concerned!) or that Tess is making her do it.

ITA!

Makes me wonder about when Liz was talking to T about "mind warping" (I think it was in BIY, but it could be ITL&ITB) and we saw this really-mean-Max ( ) come in and slam Liz for "accusing us of Alex's death" (or something like that). It seemed so un-Max-like. Could it have been a MW from Ms. T ? Maybe this was part two of her Plan-To-Get-Max-To-Love-Me scheme? Makes sense.. how else could he love the ???

quote:Originally posted by moi:
Well it looks like we're all picking up on a lot of the same things. I think Maria's hint about the clues is in regards to Tess... that she has this new scary ability to erase people's memories & that she didn't really lose her powers when the triangle thing went off.

So to recap:
Tess comes from behind the stairs... pretty odd considering there's only one entrance to the UFO centre/former bomb shelter.
Tess follows Max around like the costume dept. crazy-glued her clothing to Max. She never leaves his side!
the "flashes" from Brody/Larek have to be fake. 1) fromer Max and Tess are the same dream sequence Tess forced on Max back in S1-- only thing it looks like she's wearing is a watch. 2) there's a flash of the [b]V/royal seal that Rath drew & was pointing to with a stolen bagette in the Dupes crib, in MITC.
Tess erases Mrs. Deluca's memories, but not Sean's. whooo boy, the look on Maria's face when she realizes what Tess just did to her Mom!
Sean see's Michael & Isabel entering the UFO centre & Brody/Larek going to intercept with a gun, yet he doesn't warn them.
Along with the very creepy music, anyone else pick up on the Indian chanting music like they used in S1?

[/B]

quote:Originally posted by Zara:
Remember Tess said Larek's mind was too full and she couldn't get into it? I think she erased a chunk of his memory to make room for her implantation. That would explain why she was able to make Larek remember her first meeting with Max, their love, etc. She erased the part of Brody's brain that remembered the person he loved the most (Sidney)! BTW, implanting a memory of herself with Max is what caused Max to get the flashes of kissing her when he healed Brody...

I think you're right on the money with this spec Zara. IMO, there's NO reason Brody and/or Larek would NOT have remembered Sidney... Brody's own daughter, until recently was not only dying of cancer but quite miraculously completely cured of it!! Brody or Larek WOULD HAVE remembered Sidney. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Tess *accomodated* Brody's mind with her new (FALSE) memories by deleting some of Brody's (which included Sidney)... However temporarily. Just long enough so Max could conveniently see what was in Brody's head... these "memories" almost seeming to migrate from Brody to Max.

quote:Originally posted by MissLParker:
I am thinking that Tess caused Brody's injury. When we last see Brody he is on the floor. Then he is up walking around and getting a gun.

Remember in HC when they tried to contact Larek and there was an electric force of somekind and then Larek entered Brody's body. He said the body had to be prepared.

Also ITA to you MissLParker. If that "energy surge" came from somewhere OUTSIDE of Brody's body, through the VR headset (a surge so powerful it blacked out all of Roswell) and then passing into Brody... It would have fried him!! Whatever powerful energy surge happened, it HAD to come from Brody himself imo.... simply due to the fact that he WASN'T killed from electrocution. Just like he wasn't badly injured when whatever force threw him across the room when Isabel tried to contact Larek... that same FORCE is the SAME force that flowed out of him, into the VR device, into the UFO Center and then eventually blacking out all of Roswell. But WHY did Brody have this "energy surge" (similar or exactly the same as when Isabel used her powers on him)?? I'm with you MLP in that I think Tess *purposefully* did something to Brody... because she WAS in the UFO Center obviously before the black out. However, if so, why? I have a theory that might work which I posted on the Cherishing thread, I'll drag it over here....

So either Larek is a Peeping Tom or Tess implanted that memeory.

All I can say is that I cannot wait till the season finale when her deception is exposed, seriously!

Overall, I think this eppy was kinda boring...

And Sean to Liz is like what Tess is too Max..they both know exactly what to say to make both Max and Liz feel better and they both stand by him...but at the same time, you can't trust them 100%.....

I'm telling you, Sean and Tess are like Lucifer...they are always there when Liz and Max are either alone or at their weakest moments.

I GraceKelled the flashes and the flashes are of Lonnie and Rath back to Larek/Brody about 5 or 6 times. Then it is a flash of the Royal seal Rath drew on that board in the sewers a couple of times (only Max and Tess would have that memory from the group held hostage). Then it flashes on Tess a couple of times and then on Max only once or twice. Hmmmm.
Also, the “memory” Max sees when healing Brody is really a flash of the dream Max was having last season around this time when Tess was mindwarping him. I think this is a huge clue, don’t you?

I knew there was a reason why Liz said “Mind Control” instead of “Mind Warp.”

GraceKel - I never thought of this. You could be on to something. Though it was Max's fault that Sean got stabbed I thought that Liz's behavior was out of character. And why would she ask Max to heal Sean anyways, if I'm remembering correctly, even if he did have his powers, he was still tied up and she no longer had the knife and never offered to get him loose. Definitely something strange about that.

Also the flash that Max gets of he and Tess when he heals Brody is the exact same flash she sent him last season in Max to the Max when they were talking about the dreams etc., in the desert. That memory was definitely implanted. Then there's the fact that when Tess tried to get into Brody's head to try and mindwarp him, all the things she was seeing were legit, until I saw the drawing of the royal seal which was in the dupes sewer apartment. Now either Larek visited the dupes while in New York and that's how this picture was in his head or this was an indication that Tess actually got through and was able to erase and/or implant memories.

It was very interesting how when earlier Brody's mind was filled with things from when Larek took over his body in MITC. But when Max healed him his mind only consisted of memories of Sidney, the time when Isabel tried to contact Larek in the Hybrid Chronicles, and out of the blue the alien landscape and Tess and Max kissing. Very strange that the memories of Tess and Max looking like their human selves, instead of their alien selves would be in Brody's mind. Even if that was a memory from Larek, I would think it Tess and Max would not look like themselves.

And when Brody was recalling the so called love between Zan and his wife, it appeared to me that Tess was pulling some kind of warp. Her eyes where shut tightly in concentration, as if she was using her powers.

Redeemer Dreamer

No. Even after the supposed baby's distress, when he says he realizes that he might lose Tess, all he does is apologize for taking her for granted. If Max was ever going to say those 3 little words to Tess, that's when he would have--and he doesn't.
~Tas

I apologize to my Dreamer brethren on here for this cap... but...

Screencap borrowed from Crashdown.com, episode MAX TO THE MAX

Look familiar kids??

Were those "dreams" Max recalls in M2TM real? They were NOT imo. Tess mindwarped him into having them. HENCE... do I feel Brody/Larek's "memories" are real since some of those "flashes" were OBVIOUSLY the same as Max's MINDWARPED "dreams" from M2TM? They were not. Max NEVER really loved Tess imo, in this life or the last one.

Melodious

Nope!!!! He never says it at all! WOW!

Brody's reaction to Liz...Since Brody said that aliens were bring him food, ie., Liz, then does Brody have Larek's memory of talking to Liz at the Crashdown in HTOHL???

Because, think about it..does that mean that Larek may have suspected or thought that Liz was an alien as well???? Since we all know that he looked specially at Max THEN to Liz about "their" ship???

Does this tie in to Liz's obvious importance to the King???

Shiri Appleby: What do YOU want for Shiri in Season 3?

--Tess says that Brody's mind is too crowded. Whenever I've seen this term used, it generally refers to the presence of more than one personality. Since Larek's memories seem to have been activated, that would make sense.

--No idea about the spelling, but the device is a trithium amplification generator. Trithium sounds like the name of a metal, like chromium. Since we know from WR that Max's powers rely on neirotransmitters in his cerebral cortex, the pentagon must amplify some kind of neurotransmitter blocker. Basically Prozac for alien powers However, the fact that Tess seems to have been able to work around that implies that she's strong enough not to need to be at full capacity in order to use her powers. To me, that implies that she isn't working alone--she has an outside accomplice.

--I too noticed the lingering shot if the REFUGE sign, and it was the E that got shot

--Brody's memories of Zan & Ava. Behr with me, I'm going to ramble a bit here He says he & Zan were swimming at Demara's Rock (sp?), which was named after the third moon, when they spotted Tess. He goes on, and says that he later introduced them. Tess says it was at a party, and he seems to agree. And Max's flash later included he and Tess kissing. OK, now correlate these things to what has come out of the memory retrieval sessions that took place after this ep, chronologically speaking. Tess is talking about Max swimming and he remembers the water. He remembers 3 burnt orange moons, "surreal like a painting." He remembers their first kiss, which was late at night at a party. Gee, they seem to match pretty well, don't you think? All of the information that Tess made Max remember, he got from the flashes he got from healing Brody--flashes that Tess implanted in the first place.

Side note: You know, I didn't want Tess to be either. I wanted her to be the complex, screwed-up female equivalent of Michael. I'm very disappointed that TPTB chose to go this route with her character.
~Tas

Right before Max tries to fix the breakers and Tess shows up.

Right behind Tess when she attempts to MindWarp Brody.

Behind Max and Tess after Brody shoots at MikeyG and Iz.

The alien on the stretcher used to block the stairs. He wheels it over to the stairs while saying "Nobody gets in, nobody goes out."

Brody picks up one the dolls behind Tess and calls it her cousin.

Behind Brody's head when he 'remembers' Zan and Ava's first meeting.

Brody is sitting on the stretcher with the alien when Max approaches him to tell him the truth.

I don't know if any of this adds up to anything, but they freak me out so i thought I might as well post it.

Some other things I noticed on the second viewing:

-The pentagon thing only works withing a certain range. It doesn't take away their powers, only inhibits their ability to use them. As soon as MikeyG and Iz are out of range (the UFO center) they can use their powers. Someone asked how Mike and Iz could use their powers after coming into contact with it, and I believe that's how it works.

-When Brody/Larek remembers Zan and Ava meeting, I first thought that Tess was closing her eyes because she was reliving the memories she has of that. Maybe she wasn't, but I'm inclined to believe that she too can't use her powers because of the pentagon thing. It would make no sense for her to be able to use her powers.

-The look between Max and Liz when she comes down to deliver the food is AWESOME. And Tess does notice it.

-Brody doesn't immediately think that Maria and Co. are aliens so why Liz? Is it just because of the food, or is there something more?

-Max doesn't even look at Tess when she asks if he's still in love with Liz - he looks at Liz the entire time.

-Tess couldn't have been asleep when Max comes through her window.

-Either someone evil is watching them at the end of that scene, or it is foreshadowing danger to come. The music and view change so suddenly it can't not be.

Later!

z.a.
*Dreamer and part-time Candy Girl*

I think it's significant that a bullet went through that sign. It's basically saying that the refuge has been "shot" it's not safe anymore anywhere for in particular Max. But also the rest of the scooby gang. With one exception that being the one who is destroying the refuge. Guess who?

Roxy

I only have a minute didn't get to read the entire thread...hope this isn't a repeat!

I AGREE THAT THE KEY IS TESS AND HER MIND WARP AND NOW HER MEMORY BLOCKING/DELETING. I THINK SHE HAS DONE THIS ON MAX. BECAUSE IF MAX REALLY WAS REMEMBERING ANATAR AND THE HILL AND THE RED SEA AND TESS (AND KISSING TESS)....IF THESE WERE REALLY HIS MEMORIES OF THAT TIME....WHY ARE THEY BOTH IN HUMAN FORM? WOULDN'T HE REMEMBER HIMSELF AND HER AND THEIR EXPERIENCE TOGETHER AS ALIENS? ISN'T THAT THE WAY HE WOULD REMEMBER THEM? AND WHAT'S UP WITH THE WRISTWATCH? THESE REALLY INTELLIGENT ALIENS WITH TIME TRAVEL AND LONG DISTANCE TRAVEL, ETC....AND THEY HAVE WRIST WATCHES? DON'T BELIEVE IT!! IT WAS ALL A FALSE MEMORY.

Peace

GraceKel: I knew I could count on my pod bud to clear things up for me. Thank you my friend.

haniczka: Yes, what I ment to say was that Tess was warping Max into thinking Liz was angry at him. Sorry but it was 1 am and I was amazed that I could even put two words together.

The Liz we all know and love would never act this way. Do you remember how hard it was for her to ask Max to heal GC on LN. On Destiny she said to Max that he should have never healed her that day in the Crashdown, because that was the day his life ended. On ARCC she told Max you just can't go around healing everyone, your not God. So all the sudden we are to believe that Liz wants Max to risk everything to heal Seans flesh wound. Nope I don't buy it, Tess warping Max into believing this to knock Liz off of Max's pedestal, now that I'll buy.

Evid

Evid, I also commented on how uncharacteristic that request was by Liz. Everything Liz has done to date has been about protecting Max, even as far as going out on a date with Sean. There is no way she would risk his secret that way.

You can see her dark hair at his shoulder, plus she's wearing the same clothes as in other shots, so yes, it's definitely Liz
~Tas

So either Larek is a Peeping Tom or Tess implanted that memeory.

Did you see how upset T was when Max was looking at Liz? "You still love her don't you?" DAMN STRAIGHT!

quote:Originally posted by Alexis:

I GraceKelled the flashes and the flashes are of Lonnie and Rath back to Larek/Brody about 5 or 6 times. Then it is a flash of the Royal seal Rath drew on that board in the sewers a couple of times (only Max and Tess would have that memory from the group held hostage). Then it flashes on Tess a couple of times and then on Max only once or twice. Hmmmm.

Very interesting! Let's say, for arguments sake, that T DIDN'T implant these memories? Where would Brody/Larek get them from? And why Rath/Lonnie/Max and T? UNLESS, Rath/Lonnie and T and then instead of the that T was REALLY with (maybe Khivar or Larek or some other random) she superimposed Max in there to "fit into her scheme". Those images seem a bit too random to be genuine!

Special Tricks Produce Location Looks
By Susan Hornik
February 15, 2001 07:10 AM PST

Ask any producer what is the most important factor to achieving a look for a show and he'd say: "locations, locations, locations."

Still, with escalating production costs and time constraints, it is almost impossible for a series to leave Hollywood to go out of state on location. So, what's the next best thing? Re-create, re-create, re-create.

The re-creation process is difficult, though, and some looks are getting harder and harder to achieve, said Vincent Jefferds, production designer on the freshman WB sci-fi series "Roswell."

"Los Angeles at one time offered everything -- wide spaces in the desert, tropical or mountainous areas, etc., but now the environment is all built up and you can't find, for example, a stream or a ranch," Jefferds said.

Re-creating the mystical reputation of the tiny desert town in New Mexico is equally challenging, he said.

"That area has blended together the Mexican, Native American and cowboy cultures, all of which exhibit a lot of their own historic lore," Jefferds said.

And then there are the aliens."We try to work the rich nugget of images from the past into the design of the series," said Jefferds, who researches the "tourist merchandising" aspect of alien mythology in Roswell as the scripts come in.

"Any interesting ideas we have we feed back to writers," Jefferds said. "Our rapport is a back-and-forth process. Clearly, we want as much realness as possible."

Jefferds describes the external "Roswell" sets as having a "moody, fantastic edge" to them. The show uses several city-owned buildings in the old town of Covina, Calif., and has permanently attached a neon space ship to a local cafe, much to the delight of its owners.

"In addition, we try to get out to wide open deserts whenever we can, to open the show up."

When Fox's "The X-Files" moved to Los Angeles, its location manager, Ilk Jones, was at first a bit disappointed.

"We really made use of the climate and geography of Vancouver," Jones said. "There are so many more stories to write there. We can't be as expansive in our storytelling as we once were. There is more rain there which is clearly lacking here. Plus, we have to be careful not to have palm trees and Spanish architecture in every shot."

Still, Jones said, by using a combination of backlots and practical locations, "you can still create the East Coast effect."

Even with successful shows, economics is still a factor in location decision-making. Mark Tinker, executive producer of ABC's "NYPD Blue" only visits New York once a year, with a skeleton production crew.

"Bochco said we were doing such a great job with the look of the show that we had to stay in Los Angeles," he said. "But we weren't happy about it." For a five-day scouting trip to get second-unit footage, the production costs are about $600,000-$800,000, Tinker said.

Tinker uses a moving camera technique with a long lens, "so we don't let the viewer focus on something for too long a length of time. Using realistic backgrounds which are then populated by cars and people, we create the illusion of being in New York," Tinker said. "Every single shot you see is purposeful."

Randi Singer, executive producer and creator of the new WB romantic comedy/drama "Jack and Jill," also knows it would be near impossible to shoot her scenes in New York City.

"In a perfect world, we would be producing there but unfortunately, New York City is the most expensive state to shoot in," Singer said. "These characters are very 'New York.' But our writers are in Los Angeles and it would be hard to keep tabs on a production if they are out of state."

Since half of the pilot was shot in New York, Singer "made it (her) business" to get secondary stock, voice-over, generic and specific shots of characters in various combinations while there. Having looked at the upcoming story arcs, Singer shot them in places where she knew she would use them.

"We have some shots of the character who will be getting her big break on Broadway rehearsing in Central Park, and no script has been written yet," she said. "With the couple that will be breaking up, we shot them walking pensively on the streets of Greenwich Village. All of these episodic shots are in the bin and we plan to drop them in as needed."

If the series is successful, Singer's hope is to go back to New York in midseason, and "we would get all the exteriors we need."

Singer uses "New York" streets on a few of the studio lots. "We want to keep dressing them differently; these streets can't look like the same place each week. We add traffic, take away some trees or make the store windows anything we want to -- a travel agency one day, a clothes the next, etc."

There is also the computer-generated New York City skyline that appears in the finished shots, alongside the brownstones and walkups.

"This is fairly new to be used in television, but the effect is now within our episodic budget," Singer said. "Five years ago, this would not have been possible."

{~}:}

You can see her dark hair at his shoulder, plus she's wearing the same clothes as in other shots, so yes, it's definitely Liz
~Tas

Is it me? Or does Maria's hair look really short, like in Season 1? Where is this Screen Cap from? I'm just hoping it's an about-to-happen-event, rather than a flashback!

That said - I DONT think that proto-Max and his true love would look like their earthly counterparts - (Michael looks like his human clone) - so the fact that this may be Shiri (I am using Shiri because I dont know what her name should be! Liz??? Zil??? Ava????) does NOT necessarily mean she was ever on Antar. However - if Tess is somehow "warping" Max's memories and is using his memories of being with Liz - it would make sense that Liz would be "breaking through"

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

FEAR NOT!!! It's just her hair pulled back in a bun silly.. It's definitely an about-to-happen-event!!!!

It's the promo for Departure, Steph
~Tas

I would also like to reiterate, why would Larek have memories of the dupes' sewer apt. and of Rath's painting? He was never there.

Tess is definately using her powers. The question is how, when, and what is her true motive?

I can't wait For Liz to save the day next Monday.

Did you see her face when he said that?
"Hell hath no fury than a women's scorn"...or something like that.

Ditto!

quote:I would also like to reiterate, why would Larek have memories of the dupes' sewer apt. and of Rath's painting? He was never there.

I couldn't agree more! The question is.. where did T get these "memories" of Rath and Lonnie? Could it be she was up to THAT much in MITC? Maybe when she was "grabbed" by Rath and Lonnie and then mysteriously just appeared in that empty room. Could it be between the grab and Max finding her, she did all those things with the dupes?

Interesting theory about flash of Max and T kissing ( - oh, excuse me ) ACTUALLY being Liz/Shiri/Ava/Zil in a wig! Makes ya wonder just how much is "real" and just how much is IMPLANTED!!!!

-Either someone evil is watching them at the end of that scene, or it is foreshadowing danger to come. The music and view change so suddenly it can't not be.

Later!

z.a.
*Dreamer and part-time Candy Girl*

I hope you don't mind me quoting these selected parts of your idea. It gave me an idea.

Last season, someone was video-taping the podsters. Who? Harding? FBI? yep.
What if the alien dolls are holding/hiding a camera? There could also be cameras placed in other areas as well- Crashdown, their homes, etc. Someone is watching them. Maybe they are using cameras as well to help keep track of their whereabouts, especially Max's.

Another note. I think that Ava and Tess WERE switched. I think that is where Nasedo was all that time. Ava must know. I think that Lonnie knows, from the way she talked to Ava, and is having the person we know as Tess help get them home. "Tess" is Lonnie's cards! Whatcha think?

I don't think that it's a flashback scene because I don't recall Kyle ever having been at the Pod Chamber.

[/B]

I have speculated it before, too. But, I never thought about the scenario of Lonnie and Rath knowing. Not sure if Lonnie knew all along or if she found out in MitC when Tess was supposedly MR'd in the sewer. I've been wondering what her cards were. To me this is where the MW begins. They now have Tess on their side.

That's what makes me think that Tess is working with Lonnie and Rath. I think Ava knows too, but is being threatened to silence.

I also think that there has to be two destiny books. One for the Podsters/NM and one for the Podsters/NY. It only makes sense, since the dups were to be a decoy. Which makes me think that their book would be a decoy as well. Meaning that the book that Tess gave our Royals was the dups "decoy book". The info has to be false!

If the book is false, then the info that has been decoded is a trap or misleading on purpose to help Tess's means.

On another note, my sister heard on a radio station here in Philly this morning that UPN IS picking up Roswell. I told my sister that I thought UPN wasn't announcing their fall lineup until Thursday, but she said that this particular entertainment newscaster is usually right with her info. The newscaster said "and my favorite WB show is officially moving to UPN." I'm VERY optimistic, especially since on the "Roswell NOT renewed" thread someone in New York posted that they heard it on a radio station there as well.

Tasyfa and others who are disappointed that Tess isn't more complex, she is at the very least a tragic figure. In classical literature, a tragic character has a tragic flaw. (obsession for example). In the end, poetic justice must be served. Max, too has revealed flaws (indecisiveness, like Prince Hamlet, for one) and his suffering is his penance. For Tess, poetic justice will come in the end, and it will be interesting to see what form it takes. Enough of my rambling. -HH

*Sniff*

Like all your theories.

Meta Thx for that set designer info, that was fascinating!

Apparently, Magic posted on the spoiler board that UPN is picking up Roswell for 44 eps, and obtaining an accurate count of their Tabasco bottles for press release purposes on Thursday. Magic is generally a trustworthy source, so while I wouldn't break out the champagne just yet, I'm feeling pretty optimistic
~Tas

First - I have TOTAL CONFIDENCE that UPN will pick it up - call it a gut feeling, but I DO BELIEVE we will have another year to hang out together and dissect Roswell! Call me the eternal optimist!

I did rewatch the episode today - but everyone has posted such wonderful observations and theories, I don't have a lot to add!

I think that Maria's chalkboard talk is significant in what she says - "Something happened before Max started to 'remember' Tess, Liz started getting closer to Sean, before Alex died! ... The Key to everything!" I do think the powers exhibited by Tess - and the fact that the beeper did not seem to affect them - is a piece of the puzzle, but not the total key. I still wonder WHY? no one asked Tess about her ability to wipe Amy's memory clean?? Especially Sean? - Don't you think he would wonder about that?? I think SEAN's comments to Brody/Larek re: Liz "She is Not an alien! She is just an innocent girl!" were another piece of the key!

I've got more to post, but have to go pick up my daughter - so more later!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz - with Maria and Kyle - and find it and save Max, Iz and Mikey G!)

And I'm going to weigh in on the side that Tess couldn't have mindwarped anyone while the pentagon thingy was going around.
However, that was not when Max "remembered." In fact, he denied it all when Tess was trying (I think, from the look on her face) to send Max images of the "memory" as Larek/Brody described it.
I think Dupe Zan remembers. Max does not--he just gets Tess's shared memories. Perhaps like the wedding memories from Liz in VLV? Not sure about that one. I don't think Tess is evil so much as desperate.

About the pics: the one with the hands on Max's back: yes, those are Shiri/Liz's hands.
And the one of the flash kiss allegedly from Antar: That's Tess/Emilie. Again, the hands (I used to paint portraits and was very especially good at hands). But, Starbox, I still think it could easily be a mindwarp. When Tess cries in the last scene OTM, it could be because she genuinely wishes Max really remembered instead of just thinking her mindwarps were memories.

I really enjoyed Sean's lines; it's nice that the writers didn't try to clone Alex, but introduced a totally new character.

Nemo, I hope you're right about Max being stuck to the floor is symbolic of his not leaving for Antar.

I figure the chances are good that the UPN will pick up the show. Why?

Well today I was going to find out two pieces of Info and I figured that one would happen and one wouldn't. This was of course the fate of Roswell and the other was I was waiting to here if my Fiancee and I got the house we applied to rent.

Well, the crazy lady who owned the house told us no because of my horse (but hello the house was on 10 acres and it had a barn!)But since I got bad news on this, I have faith that our show shall return.

OK on to earlier talk. Someone mentioned why they thought that Liz blames Max when Sean got stabbed, Well I rewatched the scene a few times and after pausing it on trash's contorted face I figured it out:

When Sean gets up to grab Brody, Max yells for him not to. If you look at the gerbils face when she sees Sean, she for a split second does that face she did when playing a VCR on Amy's mind and when she tried with Brody earlier. Notice she was doing that face again when Brody was talking about how the snake and Max met.

Anyway, this is why Liz blames Max, and I really don't blame her.

I still wonder too about why Brody accused Liz of being an Alien. Was it just the food? or did Brody pick up on something Lerek knows. Like maybe Liz was on Antar and Lerek remembers her.

This also has probably been brought up before, but I wonder what the aliens really look like. Because if they look like the little green men with huge black eyes, it would be interesting to see them in a bathing suit on a beach like they talked about.

I'm also hearing real good things about UPN picking up Roswell. Very good things so let's start setting up for a party but not celebrate until Thursday.

Darn! I had something useful to add to the speculation, but I had a mind hiccup Oh well, I'll be back if I remember it.

Roxy

Dreamer-in-Cali - I too wonder this - I think the aliens themselves wonder this (remember when Max attacked Tess accusing her of being Nasedo last season?) - but I don't think the writers plan to go there this season. I always heard the plan was to keep it on Earth - thus, the flash which I'm convinced are Tess implants of Max and Tess in HUMAN form! (BTW - Sorry about the rental!)

I'm now convinced that all that is going on has it's roots in MITC! We will have to see next week what plays out, but I think Tess is a tragic figure in more ways in one (and Pathetic, too)! I think that somehow, someway Tess is in league with Nick/Lonnie/Rath - and that what is going on involves Tess' mind "games," but powers beyond, and possibly greater than, hers. I think it all adds up to the KEY - of solution to what is going on and WHY Alex died. This has got to be one great finale!!

Tas - I would love to hear what you know about why they decided to go this route - PM me if it doesn't involve major spoilage. Otherwise, I can wait until after next Monday - but I am curious!

Numbers used in the episode:
-Abduction Simulation 1.5 & 1.6
-Brody was abducted for 3 days.
-He remembers there were 3 Males and 3 Females.
-In one scene "Area 5" is shown in the background. (I'm assuming that it was Area 52, but the 2 was cut out of the scene.)
-"50 Cops will be busting down the door" - Maria's comment to Amy.
-"Don't close (the Crashdown) for another 4 hours." - Liz's comment to Mikey G to try to get him to stay.
-3 moons mentioned (and shown) again.
-3 blue and 1 white candle cluster on the Crashdown counter.

Again - that is about all I have to add since most of you have covered everything in great detail! I did love having Amy in this episode! I love her character, and wish the writers did more to had wit and sarcasm to the show to lighten it up a bit!

Did I say I can hardly wait till Departure??

And that is GREAT news about the UPN! I sure hope it is true! 44 episodes! That is 2 seasons worth! Think of the incredible storylines that could be developed!

Finally - in the previews - first scene - it looks like Max may be putting the crystal in the base of the Granolith. I'm not too thrilled about the light that shoots out in the last scene. The Alien better not leave Earth - especiall since it looks like season 3 will be around the corner!

TTFN!
Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (And only Liz - with Maria and Kyle - can find it, and save Max, Iz and Mikey G!)

Just a few observations and questions.

**What happened to the gift? Last I saw of it, Max sat it on top of some cabinets. He never opened it.

**Did anyone else catch the word that was shown behind Liz when she entered the UFO Center - it was CROWN. They kept showing it around her while she was standing there. Any time after that when anyone was in a position near it, it was in the shadows.

**I noticed too that they showed the Hazardous Material sign when Brody would go off.

**I liked the line when Brody says he just wants to get these aliens out of his head and Amy says, 'I think we should leave his aliens alone'. Clue maybe??

**I also noticed the signs behind Max and Brody when Max is getting ready to heal him. 'The timeline' and 'The incident'. Max seemed pretty much like Max until after he healed Brody. Is Max healing Brody the incident that creats a new timeline? Another catch on this was a comment I saw on another thread - Nermal sums it up very well by saying that when Max heals Brody, it as if Max has just stepped into a booby trap that was set in Brody's mind. (paraphrased)

**I wonder if what Tess saw when she tried to access Brody's mind was not only his memories, but her own as well. That rather than being able to mindwarp him, he actually accesses her mind at the same time and some of her memories remain in his mind and those are the ones he describes. These memories as we have often said may not be real, they may have been planted there by Nesado or by Lonnie, but Tess believes them to be real so Brody/Larek would also. Especially since this is not really Larek, but the memories that he has left behind.

**Can anyone tell me if the 'Book' came out of the same place in the library (3rd floor back) that the blueprints for the UFO (fallout center) were at?

**Another take on the refuge sign. Note the triangle with the capital T in it. I know it is a trademark or something, but they sure did show it enough.

**How did Tess know to call the trethe........ whatever thing a pentagon?

I am not sure about Tess doing all this alone. If she isn't, I am not truely convinced that she has a choice in it.

I can hardly wait til next Monday.

TTFN

Can you guys see it? Any suggestions? I'm just curious.

Roxy

For those that say that they wished TPTB hadn't decided to make Tess evil: JK had planned to make her that way from the beginning. He just decided to take longer to reveal it when the WB demanded more sci-fi.

You guys better make copies of Departure. You're going to wear the ending out.

i now think that liz isnt the true royal cos i think that would've been figured out with the future thingy

I also think that there has to be two destiny books. One for the Podsters/NM and one for the Podsters/NY. It only makes sense, since the dups were to be a decoy. Which makes me think that their book would be a decoy as well. Meaning that the book that Tess gave our Royals was the dups "decoy book". The info has to be false!

If the book is false, then the info that has been decoded is a trap or misleading on purpose to help Tess's means.

ifn there are to books then there could also be another pair of the orbs maybe the one we saw in distiny is fake

I thought about that too! I always think every time you KNOW Max is about to have a "memory".. what are they going to look like? He keeps "remembering" T as the person we see her as now. Do you think they just have to do it this way ("they" being TPTB) since they don't want to portray them as little green men? Or do you think this is just one more reason why T is ??

I'm going with Option #2!

If you REALLY want to know, FM never said T was important to fight the enemies. What he said was that when Liz and Max got married, T left town and that was ultimately the demise of the Pod Squad. Personally, I think that T is , that her leaving simply never allowed Liz to FULLY develop her "powers" and that all this "in between stuff" is essential to the Pod Squad and the safety of Antar. But.. I can't be sure - nothing IS what it seems these days!

ckkitten and huggybear...I agree that Tess is the card held by Lonni.

I was thinking that what if Brody being controled by Nicholas (or someone else)? Tess trying to get into Brody's mind find it too crowded. I mean the machine stimulated the memories of Larek, but he also had another person in his head...Nicholas. Tess may have realized this, but was playing it out. Afterall, he was remembering "Max and Tess". So, maybe Tess was supplying Nicholas with the memory (thus the look on her face) and it was being fed to Brody to tell Max.

ALSO, and I need your opinions here...it seemed to me that the memories of Larek in NY were more like Nicholas' memories!! I mean Nicholas met with the dupes, NOT Larek. What do you all think?

~Sheri

That's actually a really good idea! I've been trying to figure out WHY Brody/Larek would have memories of the dupes and the loft and Max and T. It all just doesn't seem to fit together unless we're missing pieces of what Larek/Brody did AFTER the summit. Then again, isn't it that the can only possess human bodies for a short amount of time? Seems there was too many "other" things that happened in Brody/Larek's mind for it to REALLY have been something Brody/Larek experienced, imho.

They may have used Brody, but now Max is the one confused. So, I think they (Tess/Nicholas) are playing in Max's mind now. He is "allowing" it because he thinks he is retriving his memories.

Well, it is just an idea.

~Sheri

My theory still is that Tess is a dupe.
I would like to reiterate the following:
Remember there are lots of words that could be used to call something a duplicate but the writers chose Dupe. This is one of the definitions for the word Dupe
synonyms: DUPE, GULL, TRICK, HOAX mean to deceive by underhanded means. DUPE suggests unwariness in the person deluded. GULL stresses credulousness or readiness to be imposed on (as through greed) on the part of the victim. TRICK implies an intent to delude by means of a ruse or fraud but does not always imply a vicious intent. HOAX implies the contriving of an elaborate or adroit imposture in order to deceive.

Does that not describe what Tess could be doing?

------------
5-21-01 The Last Time I Watch The WB

The BIG clue was at the end - when Brody tells Maria that this time - when he was abducted - he has faint memories (the fact that it was so different is another big clue that Brody was NOT being emissaried or accessing Larek in any way).
Broidy says his memories of the mind control are "like a dream, faint impressions but mostly feelings".
This is almost VERBATIM how Max describes his "retrieved memories" to Michael in HOM (which was scheduled to immediately follow this episode).

The tear at the end??? I think Tess had a little regret about the way things were going to go down. Since MITC she had been biding her time in Roswell - and starting to find some acceptance. But - I think she made a deal with the and had a moment of regret when she saw that the wheel had been set in motion.
I will say that this episode made me not think of Tess as being the outright - as in - I dont think she is the brains behind the operation. I think she is a very willing accomplice - and that her motives are fueled by a desire to get back to Antar (just like Lonnie). BUT - I also think that spending time with the podsters was starting to have an affect on her - enough to make her regret her betrayal for a moment.

Oh - and about the flashes - after viewing them "live" - I dont think they were filmed for this episode - I think they are computer doctored footage of past kisses - and I still REALLY think the second one is of Sexual Healing - you can still see the watch and ring Liz wore.

How many days till Departure??????

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

I know that we all thought the scene where Liz tells Max that it is his fault that Sean got stabbed was wierd. What I found to be really strange is right after she is frustrated with Max she sits down next to Sean and then gazes at Max when Tess says,"You're still in love with her".
First Liz is annoyed and then she is in love?
Anyone else saying, HUH?

It's a long shot I know.

It's a long shot I know.

Brings up a good point - where did that gun come from if BRODY didn't know?

Maybe it was *ahem* behind the stairs!?

I'm hoping to be there! I should know soon - since I have to pay!

Azcat - You bring up a good point about the gun! I wondered the same thing - "why would Brody question the existance of the gun when he retrieved it from one of his filing cabinets?" Very ODD! I agree that it was probably a plant. BUT THEN - I think the entire VR program was part of a plant. HOW would Brody - who to that time supposedly had no memories of his abductions - be able to program simulation programs with such accurate images. I'm far from an expert on programing for VR, but I've done a bit of reading out of pure interest and the fact I live in ".com haven" - and for this abduction simulation programs to have been so accurate - someone with some "knowledge" of the actual situations would have had to be involved in the programing - unless we are getting into AI (artificial intelligence), and that was not what was going on here. Umm...??

Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (And Only Liz - with help from Maria and Kyle - can find it, and save Max, Iz and Mikey G!)

what if this is from the very end of the show?? (you know how they like to show promos in the most confusing way possible) after they've sent tess away? we have micheal and maria and we also have isabel and kyle (though not as a couple) and we have *max and liz* hugging and making up for the way they've been treating each other recently? notice how tess isn't present? anyways, that's what i'd like to think that is supposed to be a shot of. this way, our aliens still get to stay on earth, and tess has left the planet, therefore accomplishing what FMax and FLiz were hoping for in EOTW- namely, she can't join up with their enemies now, can she??

it's probably too good to be true, but i think it'd be a really good way to tie up the problems leftover from EOTW. also, this way max won't have to wonder what would have happened if he'd gone with tess and not liz.

hmmm, i know i had other thoughts, but what were they?? something about sean and his comment about liz not being an alien. oh yeah, somehow that comment of his really stuck out at me. what if sean really is a protector of liz, like i believe some people have mentioned before? either liz IS an alien and only sean knows it, and has been protecting her her whole life and even now against brody, or she really ISN'T an alien and sean knows it and is still protecting her because she is a vital part of the alien plan to get home eventually- just not now!!

anyways, i don't know if any of that made sense, just wanted to throw it out there.

totenhosen

Me too! Let me know, so I'll know who to look for. Haven't paid, haven't found a hotel, and I'll be going alone. Hopefully, I'll be rooming with some random FF posters (of course, haven't figure out WHO yet). Yeah, you can say I haven't gotten it ALL together just yet, but details are often over-rated, imho.

StarBox loved your recent post. Very insightful.
If mind control is the key than that changes everything in that last four episodes. The memories, the feelings, the actions based on those memories and feelings.

Leanna is not Alex's killer. Maria's intro made that obvious. So who is?

Is it Monday yet?

quote:Originally posted by Tasyfa:
Since nobody else has, and I doubt anyone would mind, here's the promo screencap where Max and Liz are hugging

You can see her dark hair at his shoulder, plus she's wearing the same clothes as in other shots, so yes, it's definitely Liz
~Tas

Max does have a Black v-neck sweater, he wore it in the Pilot when he did the reverse connection with Liz.

I your screenname as well and yes you are correct !!

I think haniczka was refering to the episodes OTM through BIY. Max hasn't worn a black v-neck sweater so I'm guessing he left it on top of the fuse box and Brody stole it. Or, he just didn't like it, whatever.

Val

I also think that there has to be two destiny books. One for the Podsters/NM and one for the Podsters/NY. It only makes sense, since the dups were to be a decoy. Which makes me think that their book would be a decoy as well. Meaning that the book that Tess gave our Royals was the dups "decoy book". The info has to be false!

If the book is false, then the info that has been decoded is a trap or misleading on purpose to help Tess's means.

I've just read all the introduction (it took me like 2 hours ) and I've got to say that it's amazing the work you've been doing on this!
I really liked the theories about the fifth element (I completely agree) and the Hero Journey, which is very true.
I just wanted to ask a few questions I had by reading it.
What exactly is the Whitaker Diary? It's something official by the WB or some fan site like Crashdown?
And where can I find the Silverhandprint site?

Leticia

Go to www.silverhandprint.com and check out the UFL link. I believe that that is the link to Congresswoman Whittaker's diary about the Skins' first few years on earth & their search for the Royal Four.

P.S. It is an official WB site set up to compliment the show.

It's a long shot I know.

No, near the end of the teaser we see Brody getting it out of a filing cabinet drawer. He has it when he comes out of his office to confront Max the first time.

ALSO, and I need your opinions here...it seemed to me that the memories of Larek in NY were more like Nicholas' memories!! I mean Nicholas met with the dupes, NOT Larek. What do you all think?

~Sheri

I like this idea a lot. Remember Wipeout? Tess said she tapped into something to produce her fire warp. Who was present at the time? Nicholas. Maybe this is her new power, the ability to tap into other aliens power?

P.S. Major CHAD, why didn't anyone question her new found power? And why did Max, knowing that she could change people's memories willingly put his mind in her hands? This just makes him look stupid and gullible.

No, near the end of the teaser we see Brody getting it out of a filing cabinet drawer. He has it when he comes out of his office to confront Max the first time.

[/B]

I think the question is - was it Brody's gun in the file cabinent or was it "planted" and so that he could be mind controlled to fetch it?
IF it was Brody's gun that he kept for self defense - you would expect him to say "why do I have my gun?" not WHATS this. His "whats this" comment strongly implies that he had never seen that gun before.
Azcat - I didnt pick up on this with my first viewing - I assumed it was just Brody's gun - but I think you make an excellent point and I do agree that the gun was probably planted.
Brody doesnt seem to be a dangerous guy - although he is a UFO nut - and he is a father to a young girl - it seems out of character for him to keep a fully loaded gun in an unlocked file box.
BTW - in the scene where Brody falls to the floor and the power surges - I swear it looks like you see a dark figure move in front of the frame for a second. I have rewatched a zillion times and I am not sure - but it really appears to be a dart of movement by someone other than Brody........

BTW - I just want to say how amazed I am that all the spoiled posters have managed to keep the finale a secret. I can not believe that it has not spilled over and am just SO impressed by the level of maturity and respect for the non-spoiled that you guys have.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

Starbox, your post on page 3 is full of really good stuff.

I woke up in the middle of the night last night and watched OTM again, this time viewing certain portions of it frame by frame. Fair warning, rambling follows...

One of the things I was interested in was the initial electrical pulse that took Brody out and shut down the elecrical power all over town. First of all, I don't understand why the electrical accident even happened to Brody. The message on the computer was more like a comment on what was happening in Brody's brain than a message about computer system failure... I wanted to review what happened in that scene.

In slow motion one of the stunning things I saw in that initial scene was just as Brody falls to the floor: there is a figure (looks like a man) dressed in black who quickly walks past Brody as he lies on the floor. It's not Max, he's downstairs. I don't think it's Tess, because it looks like a man's torso.

So who else is in the UFO center at that point? It's also very suspicious how the doors are locked and unlocked at certain key times. I think there are some folks we can't see there. (dupes?)

Another thing I thought screamed out in this episode was how some people could taste that alien heat had been used to prepare the food! It was Brody, Michael and Isabel who complained about the taste. (OR WAS IT RATH AND LONNIE?!) It seemed to relate back to Alex in CYN when the Thai food was delivered and his depression began, although he was complaining that the food was too cold...

Alright, wild topic jump... Brody's flashes:
the first one shows Lonnie and Rath, and Larek (via Brody's body) looking for the site of the summit. Notice how he's looking around until he sees the sign with the V. Lonnie and Rath are watching him. The last flash, as Max heals Brody's brain, shows Max healing him the previous time, when the alien cell phone fry took place. I just thought those were interesting memories. Once the healing got going really well we saw Sidney and Brody, then Tess and Dimaras Rock with the three moons. So did Max only see Brody memories that related to himself or people he'd healed?

One last thing, probably mentioned by you number people: after Brody stabs Sean he pitches a little fit, in which he kicks over a stack of boxes. The boxes get significant camera time, 4 small boxes (one has been ripped open on the side) and 3 large boxes. If I find a screen cap, I'll post it...

So my major inclination after this second viewing is that Lonnie and Rath and one other are definitely involved in what's going down. 4 + 3, you know...

So is Sean Nicholas? I can't figure him out at all!

After watching OTM, I don't know where I stand with the Sean character. I was believing he was Liz's protector, making sure she "grows" and changes to what they need her for. (Whatever that is??!!) But now -- I'm not so sure.

Why didn't Tess erase his memories?? Everyone was concerned that Amy would spill her guts, but not Sean?? Isn't anyone worried that Sean will automatically question why his Aunt lost total memory of the event?? Wouldn't he suspect Brody's "information" that aliens are among us with this memory failure?? Just because Liz agreed to go on a date to keep his mouth quiet, doesn't constitute him to questioning what is going on. Who is he??

OK -- I was thinking . . . . (watch out :lol

Maybe, Sean is Liz's protector, afterall!! His concern for her in the UFO Center was definitely evident IMHO. Tess' concern is to trap Max. They may not be working together, because they have two different agendas. Sean & Tess could possibly know each other, knowing that neither want their own plans to backfire. ?????? hmmmmmmm

I don't know!! I would like to have some answers!! . . . don't we all??!!

One of my students came up with the idea that when they go to Antar they will find Alex there--and she hasn't even read the books!

So did Larek put the gun in the drawer and Brody never saw it before?

Re: Sean - I really got the feeling in this episode that he knew what was going on with the aliens. Supposedly - he doesnt know anything - but in OTM I really sensed that he knew exactaly what was going on. Also - why did he ask for a burger and fries when he KNEW that LIZ would be the one who would likely deliver it. In fact - when she knocked on the door - Brody said "here SHE is" before he saw that it was Liz delivering.
That was all just weird.
So - I am back to being suspicious of Sean and his motives. <sigh>

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

Remember my switched orb theory????

Here's the link for those that have forgotten.
http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/orbs.htm

Plus, I wanna know just how many lose ends Departure is gonna tie up. Only 1 hour, well more like 45-50 minutes, and much information that has to be explained. Well, I'm thinking since I heard that JK wanted a 2 hour season finale that much of the stuff he would have put in there will spill over to the season premiere come fall. At least he'll have a rough outline of how the season will start

And just wanna spread my joy about the move to UPN!!! They are my new heros Woohoo!

Good Point to what loose ends will be tied come the finale.
I am hopeful.

Good Point to what loose ends will be tied come the finale.
I am hopeful.

I think you may be right. I wonder if the gerbil put that line into his head that its his fault. Because Liz seemed a little shocked at Max's answer.

Well, It looks like all our answers will ne answered next season on UPN!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I'm so happy! :happydance:

So lets say this past human max did fall in love with a girl, could this girl be liz in her past life from her past life or whateva.

So when Max entered the school grounds and met liz for the first time that couldve been his human side remembering his love 4 the past life of liz. And even the connection

get what i mean............

Night all!
Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (And Only Liz - with the help of Maria and Kyle - can find it, and save Max, Iz and Mikey G!)

GO UPN!!!!!

ISABEL: Won't do any good. He's not hearing me.

LIZ: Ok, so um, what's plan "B"?

ISABEL: There isn't one.

AVA: Liz can do it.

ISABEL: What?

LIZ: What are you talking about?

AVA: Max brought you back from the dead. You've been changed.

i thought it was interesting..

LIZ: What do you mean by changed?

AVA: Look, there ain't enough time to explain. You just gotta trust me here. If Max brought you back, then...you're different now.

okay.. that's it

It is OFFICAL, Roswell has been picked up by UPN

I don't get UPN here but I doesn't matter as long as it is still running

Do you think they will change anything for the season finale now they have more epis to intrigue us with?????????

catch you later
Liz myther friends

Chicatron
GO VOLS

Rooney

Maybe, Sean is Liz's protector, afterall!! His concern for her in the UFO Center was definitely evident IMHO. Tess' concern is to trap Max. They may not be working together, because they have two different agendas. Sean & Tess could possibly know each other, knowing that neither want their own plans to backfire. ?????? hmmmmmmm

[/B]

I never thought of that, it makes sense he always seems to be watching Liz. I hope he doesn't turn out to be evil I kind of like his character. I just don't want him to come between a Max and Liz reunion.

The mind warp is being sustained by the food they're eating (and the drink as well.) Go watch HOM and CYN again and Follow the FOOD!

I know you think I'm nuts, but go watch...

Even Kyle's realization that Tess is more of a sister to him was after he had a drink of punch with Malamud!

The funeral had a huge spread of food and that's where everyone turned on Liz.

Liz was onto Alex' murder because she hadn't been eating the food. Also, remember the puke scene...

Remember Alex and the Thai food...

Sean calls for food in OTM and when it gets there (prepared by Lonnie and Rath, no less) Brody can taste the alien preparation of the food.

CLUE.
Go watch!

The mind warp is being sustained by the food they're eating (and the drink as well.) Go watch HOM and CYN again and Follow the FOOD!

I know you think I'm nuts, but go watch...

Even Kyle's realization that Tess is more of a sister to him was after he had a drink of punch with Malamud!

The funeral had a huge spread of food and that's where everyone turned on Liz.

Liz was onto Alex' murder because she hadn't been eating the food. Also, remember the puke scene...

Remember Alex and the Thai food...

Sean calls for food in OTM and when it gets there (prepared by Lonnie and Rath, no less) Brody can taste the alien preparation of the food.

CLUE.
Go watch!

That's an interesting idea...I've only watched till CYN but you're right in what you said about HOM and CYN.
In those episodes they are always eating right before something that is mindwrapped by Tess occurs, so I think it could possibly have something to do with the mindwrapping.

I just found this amazing thread and I have to say that you all amaze me. I never realized that other people went to the trouble of noticing these things. I am completely stupified. I never would have put things together on my own. Some things maybe, but not all this.

quote:**Did anyone else catch the word that was shown behind Liz when she entered the UFO Center - it was CROWN. They kept showing it around her while she was standing there. Any time after that when anyone was in a position near it, it was in the shadows.

I noticed that too and it was odd how you could only see it when Liz was in the shot.

Ok, someone (maybe on the previous thread) posted the definition of refuge as a sanctuary(paraphrased). So that could mean that the UFO center is/was a safe haven for Max.

What if Brody's shooting of it was symbolic of the fact that Max is no longer safe. And was in itself a sort of self-fulfilling phophesy. A sign that the mind bending manipulations were about to be in effect.

quote:**Another take on the refuge sign. Note the triangle with the capital T in it. I know it is a trademark or something, but they sure did show it enough.

But what if you replace the letter that got shout out, G. And replace it with the one in the triangle, T. The word then becomes refute. Which means:

1 : to prove wrong by argument or evidence : show to be false or erroneous
2 : to deny the truth or accuracy of

Possibly trying to tell us that events that happen after that moment are not to be completely believed? It seems too coincidental to me. There has to be something to that. Which brings me to something related that I picked up on.

Did anyone else notice that Liz took a long time to yell Sean's name after he was stabed? Maria or Amy looked at him and muttered "Oh God." Then like 3-5 seconds later Liz yells and looks like she had just seen him get stabbed and wants to rush over and help.

What if the whole Sean got stabbed scene was a Mind Warp? That the events played out more or less the way we saw it, but the struggle we saw was shorter than the way it really happened.

Maybe somehow, thru some ability/power Liz saw things differently. Could that be the mystical key that everyone's been talking about? That would explain Liz's extremely delayed reaction to Sean getting stabed. Plus, I could have sworn I saw tess's eyes do the fluttery closed MW thing during that scene.

Can anyone else back me up here? Shoot me down? I just hope this all makes sense and not the insane ramblings of a really tired person. Oh btw... GO UPN!!!!

Starbox, Zara I agree YES a definite shadowy figure comes into Brody lying on the floor but I don't think we can tell who it is male or female because to me it was just a shadow.

Interesting observations about the gun--was it planted? I think there is a good chance it was planted.
Starbox I agree--this was not the same type of abduction that Brody has had with Larek in the past------remember in Disturbing Behavior when the want to phone home they decided to have Isabel try to connect to Larek through Brody and they flew across the room-----I always thought the way that whole scene ended---it appeared that someone was in the UFO center watching them from outside the office---they might have realized at that point that the PODS would trust what came out of LAREK since they were trying to call him forth-----------and how many times did Tess say "thats why he is accessing LAREK'S MEMORIES??????????" Yeah I don't think so--she kept saying that to give it legitimacy I thought--but I don't believe these are Larek's memories at all.

My God was Tess attached to Max's hip in this episode or WHAT??????? Every MOVE he made she was practically on top of him.

Zara as for the food-I agree there is something up with the food but I can't quite put my finger on it--Remember in WAF Liz goes to fetch an extension cord and discovers Sean down by one of the food shelves? Remember Courtney waved her hand over the glasses of SODA in SURPRISE?

And what a HAPPY Morning it was for me - coming into the office.. still sleepy .. with an email from crash@fanforum.com that says UPN HAS PICKED UP ROSWELL :thumbs-up:

Best thing that could have happened to me this morning!

Anyway, I'll get back with thoughts after I wake up - haven't had my third cup of coffee yet.

About Larek's memories, I definitely agree that those were not Larek's memories. Tess sucks.

About Larek's memories, I definitely agree that those were not Larek's memories. Tess sucks.

Took the words right out of my mouth!!

About the shadowy figure: I'll have to rewatch to see it, but could it just be bad editing?

About the naked kiss: maybe they were just reusing the old footage to save $? Also, the fact that it's a replay of the Season One mindwarp does not mean that it didn't happen--that it wasn't a real image from Tess's memory.
But then remember that box of Max pictures? Seemed like we were supposed to conclude she used them and the Evans' family album to create her mindwarp images. And remember the Momogram? Mother says she appears in that form because "it will be familiar to you." This could mean she normally looks like a glowy guy, or it could mean that's what she looked like when she was alive on Antar. But then remember Whitaker in Surprise telling Isabel that she was 'even more beautiful' than Is is now. And Michael looked exactly like Granpa Dupris. So unless there are duplicates of humans on Antar (a sort of mirror universe), then Tess and Max would look very different even if Antarians do look human. But then are the glowy guys wearing space suits? I think Palomino had a theory about that somewhere back on another thread...maybe Ask Not...Hmmmm...

About the food: I just thought Sean asking for burgers was part of his dry humor charm. But then again, he knew there was a power outage (I think--did he know how extensive it was? Tess did and told Max, but I don't think the DeLuca crew knew) and so requesting hamburgers would likely mean alien cooking methods--although they did have the butane stove--they just speeded it up a little. Hmmm...the food...and Liz being sick...as I recall she tells Max she hadn't eaten anything in a day before that...

BTW, I'm so happy about UPN picking up Roswell!

Laura

Steph to the rescue!

quote:
About the shadowy figure: I'll have to rewatch to see it, but could it just be bad editing?

Excuse the ignorance - what shadowy figure where?

quote:About the naked kiss: maybe they were just reusing the old footage to save $? Also, the fact that it's a replay of the Season One mindwarp does not mean that it didn't happen--that it wasn't a real image from Tess's memory.

But then remember that box of Max pictures? Seemed like we were supposed to conclude she used them and the Evans' family album to create her mindwarp images. And remember the Momogram? Mother says she appears in that form because "it will be familiar to you." This could mean she normally looks like a glowy guy, or it could mean that's what she looked like when she was alive on Antar. But then remember Whitaker in Surprise telling Isabel that she was 'even more beautiful' than Is is now. And Michael looked exactly like Granpa Dupris. So unless there are duplicates of humans on Antar (a sort of mirror universe), then Tess and Max would look very different even if Antarians do look human. But then are the glowy guys wearing space suits? I think Palomino had a theory about that somewhere back on another thread...maybe Ask Not...Hmmmm...

OK, about the kiss ( ).. personally, I think it's a fake. I think it's something that T created on her own. For the reason that you stated - I don't think that the Pod Squad LOOKED the same on Antar, so this visual had never happened in S1. I think T created this whole thing and implants it where she wants (in Brody's mind, in Max's thoughts, in the whole ITL&ITB planetarium (or whatever that was - observatory?) scene). I think she's been "creating" these ideas of how it SHOULD have gone or SHOULD go and gathering info (the pictures in the Edsado/T house being the first clue) along the way to create this entirely fake scenario that SEEMS real. grin:

quote:About the food: I just thought Sean asking for burgers was part of his dry humor charm. But then again, he knew there was a power outage (I think--did he know how extensive it was? Tess did and told Max, but I don't think the DeLuca crew knew) and so requesting hamburgers would likely mean alien cooking methods--although they did have the butane stove--they just speeded it up a little. Hmmm...the food...and Liz being sick...as I recall she tells Max she hadn't eaten anything in a day before that...

My thoughts here? I found it TOTALLY odd that Sean requested food to, but I thought about it that maybe he wanted Liz down there. If he's in cahoots with T OR if T "suggested" to Sean's mind than suggesting food was inevitably going to bring Liz in. With Liz there, T could do her mind warping to further the distance between my Dream Team and get her little grubby hands on Max (that is if she ever REALLY got those hands on him - that's TBD! )

I also was baffled on why T didn't erase Sean's memory. I know many people have mentioned that, too, but it just seems bizarre. The only way I think that it would be OK is if Sean is in on it or T has alterior motives - or both.

Anyway, there's my thoughts.. enjoy.

Shapeshifter, GraceKel - thanks for the feedback.
Shapeshifter - you are right that Sean would have known that there was no way to cook the fries because he knew power was out all over town.
GraceKel - great pickup on the videotaping.
I think you are onto something. The second kiss in the "Antar" flashback really fels and looks like doctored footage from Sexual Healing to me - and since that took place in Michaels apartment - which we KNOW was being videotaped........hmmmmmmm
And Shapeshifter - I agree - I think the boxes of photos were meant to suggest that Tess was suing them to help her create mindwarps.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer, #1 fan of UPN!

Psyche_G--very interesting about the word REFUTE hadn't thought of that but I noticed the T(REFUGE) ever since Brody took over in Ask Not--I didn't know what it meant-but I often wondered what used to be a refuge for the podsters NOW became a TESS refuge or a TICTAC one---not sure but that was my guesses.
As for what you were saying about Liz's delayed reaction--I agree something seemed very OFF about this----did you also notice Sean and Brody knocked over the sign FACT OR FICTION? in their struggle with the knife???
Now I didn't know if they were saying this particular event was staged or whether MUCH of what is going on is simply not real but definitely something is up.

Another thing I noticed and I wonder if anyone else did as well---it appeared to me as if the very moment that Brody notices Liz wearing a camera--the whole scene kind of shakes--like MINDWARP(NOTICE LIZ--wearing camera Brody now and point the gun at her and kill her please???)
But MAX jumps up and intervenes and says no kill me--Brody now points the gun at Max and NOW-------Tess says No(oh no don't point it at Max) hmmmmmmmmm. I wonder if she was hoping Brody would OFF LIZ? Something just seemed very fishy here.

Shapeshifter--I was also thinking about Liz being sick and not eating hmmmm.

I was trying to figure out a way that Liz could be Max's destiny, yet Ava was suppose to be Zan's---how confusing this is but how can they both be right--and here is what I came up with.....
Suppose Tess is from an earlier experiment sending the original royal4 to Earth---but she is not a HYBRID--she is full alien and she has no human genetics but she has managed to survive here but not much longer????? Remember James Atherton's book states that aliens do not have the lung capacity or BRAIN capacity for long term survival on this planet-----maybe this lack of brain capacity could account for these aliens almost acting crazy and losing their mental capacities and they are DESPERATE to get off this planet because they can't survive here------so another experiment was done sending ALIEN-HUMAN HYBRIDS instead---this change is necessary because the first experiment was a failure--because the Aliens need their HUMAN DNA to truly survive here? This would explain Tess being very different from our other 3--she doesn't have the human dna therefore cannot relate to anyone, bonding and such, and why she desperately wants to go HOME.

GraceKel, so then, if Tess is 100% alien, she'd have to be a shapeshifter to look like Ava, right? I remember that was the original premise anyway.

Grace Kel - I wanted to second you thoughts on the scene where Brody notices Liz's camera - it screamed "mindwarp/control" to me, too! I was filmed very oddly.

I too am excited about UPN picking up the show - but I'm still bothered by the shot out of the mountainside at the end of the previews. My mind is working overtime - and I hope we don't end up with a cliffhanger where Tess goes home alone with the baby! That will just bug the Sh*# out of me - I hope they wrap this storyline (the Tex one) - which I DO NOT LIKE ONE BIT for a variety of reasons - up once and for all so that they can move forward with a fresh season on UPN. If Tess IS pregnant ( ) and takes the baby home (though I'm still hoping it is a mindwarp - that preview concerned me coupled with the realisticness - is that a word - of the Tex scene to me), that will leave a loose end that will definitely cause the show to "jump the shark" for me! (If you don't know what that means - I'll explain it later ) It would truly destroy the specialness of the Liz/Max connection in a way that I don't know I could get over - and my obsession would definitely be destroyed by the Yuck! factor. Sorry - I didn't mean to rant - but for some reason, I could get that scene out of my mind and have been rolling it around so much - and coupling it with all the downers that Liz has had to deal with this season - well, my optimism was not showing through!

Boy, I sure hope Departure is an up-lifting episode! I need one right now!!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There!

Hey Gracekel and Zero I know what you mean about the preview with the shot going out of the mountain....however, there is still the possibility that the sex and baby are not real - and Tess ends up being sent back to Antar anyway. This way she won't be back, but the possibility of her return is still there...

I'm still bitter that I think they are going to make Tess out to be pure evil. I would love it if they made her a sympathetic character by showing the motivation for her actions and kind of painting her as a victim, but alas, I don't think they're going to do that. It would've been fun to watch the character develop and interact with the others, and *could* have played brilliantly into the *alienation* theme of the show. Oh well....

That said, I can't help thinking that somehow the New York podsters were the Royal 5. Meaning...Tess was actually RAISED with the NY podsters. I think that it was AVA who was left behind when M/I/M came out of the pods, and at some point one of the watchers did find her still left in the pod chamber. However, since they didn't know where the others were, she was taken to the NY group and raised there. I honestly believe AVA was meant to be with the NM podsters and Tess with the NY ones. The NY podsters want to go home, and somehow Tess has that same motivation. It would make sense that Tess was sent to the NM group in lieu of AVA (who never quite fit in with the NY group) so that they (the NY podsters) could get home. I think the cards that Lonnie hadn't shown yet was Tess. It makes total sense -- but the thing I'm wondering, if this is true, then what has become of Ava? Is she still out there somewhere or has something been done to her?

I also believe that Tess manipulated the OTM situation in an effort to get Max to believe he 'remembered' their love. She knew about the Brody/Larek connection and probably figured that the information would be more plausible to Max coming from Brody/Larek. I thought it was interesting that OTM seemed to be from Brody's perspective, not Lareks. This says to me that the memories are fake, because if they were real they would have been presented as coming from Larek -- Not Brody.

In any case, thank god we get a season 3! Hopefully UPN will let Roswell do it's think without too much interference. Imagine not being told that you have to have more sci-fo less relationships or vice-versa and let JK and the others tell the stories they WANT to tell? Woo Hoo.

Anyhow, just my 2 cents on things...

{~}:}

Other less creepy observations: When Max makes his first appearance in this episode, he's whistling "She'll be coming around the mountain". For those mythers who see significance in horses, we all the the second verse would be "She'll be bringing six white horses when she comes..." I thought that may be interesting since there are SIX people depicted in our favorite screen cap for Departure. Liz to the rescue?

One last thing: when Tess tries to enter Brody's head, first there's a flash of Lonni and Rath as you've observed, and later Max. But in between, there are several flashes of what looks like a white tile floor with large brown spots on it. Are they footprints? Dust bunnies (I told you I'm tired)? Does anyone know? And does anyone know (Nemo?) how many spots there are? Maybe that's significant.

Enough for now. I'm enjoying all your posts!
-HH

Also, anyone wonder if we'll see "the dupes" again. This seems like the time when the Pod Squad would say something along the lines of, "maybe we should get the dupes". Don'tcha think? I know the tried to kill Max, but doesn't it seem better to have them at "home" (if they go) than on Earth causing havoc?

Just a thought

That's what I got from Ava...she trusted Liz with the truth!

Ok y'all, this is kind of o/t (but kind of not), however I feel the need to address it because when this was brought to my attention... I was in between tears and/or bursting into laughter.

I don't know if y'all are aware of that thread started seemingly by an S1 writer (who seems to have ties to S3?) on the Shiri board. Well, are you aware of what this person seems to have planned in concerns to Liz Parker?? I'm still questioning this person's authenticity, but if this person is AT ALL legit... I suggest we ALL go over there and straighten this person out TOUTE SUITE! "Guardian of Earth"? Huh?? Granted, perhaps a "guardian of Earth" storyline *might* be interesting... but.... it seems the way this particular person is planning on building it up... UGH... just go over there y'all and read what s/he posted.
http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum46/HTML/000551-2.html

(Supposed) S1 writer posts under the name: captainsammitch. Although I'm sure most in here are aware of this thread/poster already.

Melodious

What a wonderful day it is knowing that UPN has saved Roswell. I'm either going to get a satellite dish or beg some of you for tapes, my cable carrier doesn't receive UPN.

I also noticed Liz's delayed reaction to Seans stabbing. The Rebels saw it as bad acting by Shiri. Everytime the Rebels bash Liz/Shiri I always look at her actions as a clue. I think Shiri is an amazing actress because she always makes you second guess Liz's actions, you know the writers are trying to tell you someting when Liz is out of character. Shiri always follows through, the writers do not. The Rebels actually pick up on a lot of clues because they analyze her every move for bashing ammo. What's funny is when I go back in analyze what they mention, I end up finding a clue to further distrust Tess.
So THANK YOU Rebels if you are lurking out there, you help further our belief that Liz is indeed Important to the Alien Mythology.

As for Tess not erasing Seans momories? Have any of you thought that maybe she couldn't because of who Sean is.
I keep thinking that Liz is fighing the MW. She keeps having those, someting is not right questioning looks. Plus let's not forget her getting sick on CYN. Was she fighing one off? So maybe now that Liz's powers are getting stonger her mind is harder to control. If Sean is her protector he could be the same race as Liz? The race that can't be mind controlled.
Do you think Sean wanted Liz to bring over the food to test her powers and to see how strong the M/L connection was??
Is Sean Tic-Tac? I always thought it was Tic-Tac who saved Liz in the house of mirrors, not Harding. I know what your thinking, but when she kissed him on the bus she got the same flashes from Harding/Maxcedo. But wouldn't she get the same flashes if one shapeshifter killed SH and other tryed to save her? If Tic-Tac was trying to save Shiela, was he the one who took the essence from her baby girl? As you can see I don't refer to Harding as Nasedo. Because I think the true Nasedo is Tic-Tac. He has a the connection to the reservation and to Grandma Claudia, who leads us back to Liz.
I know she didn't get flashes from Sean when they kissed. She also hasn't gotten any flashes from touching Max lately. I think Liz can control the flashes now that her powers are stronger.
So did I convince any of you that Sean/Tic-Tac/Nacedo is guiding Liz as well as protecting her? Believe me I do still have my doubts, this is Roswell after all.

Evid

Ok y'all, this is kind of o/t (but kind of not), however I feel the need to address it because when this was brought to my attention... I was in between tears and/or bursting into laughter.

I don't know if y'all are aware of that thread started seemingly by an S1 writer (who seems to have ties to S3?) on the Shiri board. Well, are you aware of what this person seems to have planned in concerns to Liz Parker?? I'm still questioning this person's authenticity, but if this person is AT ALL legit... I suggest we ALL go over there and straighten this person out TOUTE SUITE! "Guardian of Earth"? Huh?? Granted, perhaps a "guardian of Earth" storyline *might* be interesting... but.... it seems the way this particular person is planning on building it up... UGH... just go over there y'all and read what s/he posted.
http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum46/HTML/000551-2.html

(Supposed) S1 writer posts under the name: [b]captainsammitch. Although I'm sure most in here are aware of this thread/poster already.

Melodious

[/B]

Personally - I am highly doubtful of the authenticity of this person. Maybe this person (who hails from Cleveland???) is a writer, but I doubt one for Roswell.

It seems a little farfetched that a writer would be coming on here and throwing storyline ideas by us. All they would have to do is lurk to get an idea of the kinds of stories the fans want to see.

I dunno. Seems a little fishy to me....

{~}:}

Not so happy about it, S2 has already been quite upsetting, it’s been a crescendo of M/T relationship with too little of Liz. I really don’t look forward to a S3, again centered on M/A relationship with Liz in the “irregular” role, which we already know she will reject.
Anyway, I’ve made up my mind: I don’t anymore wish Liz to be Max’s true bride.
Things that have been said about the Queen are not exactly positive: genocidal girlfriend, wrong person to trust.....definitions that belong to Tess’ behaviour (as we don’t know much about Ava).
So I believe that even if Tess has switched into Ava, it’s not important, both of them have the Queen’s essence in themselves. Hope that Max gets over and done with them both soon, if he doesn’t want past to repeat itself.
Season finale will give us a finale but certainly most questions will stay unanswered.
Like: Who is then Liz? And why Max recognized/choose her the very first time he saw her? And didn’t recognize neither of Tess/Ava!
About OTM: if Tess was able to use her powers also after the device was turned on, as someone else already said, then she probably isn’t of M/I/M same kind.
Was the description of Z/A first encounter anything like that of M/L?
I do feel that S3 will also be about Tess-Ava/Isabel-Vilandra part on Antar’s tragedy and on the part played by the five worlds in the war.
Elena

Evid

Not sure about Sean, but I was thinking about the flashes. Remember Max said 'sometimes when things get intense, we see things, feel things'? I don't think Liz's feelings for Sean are intense enough for her to get flashes from him. I believe she only got flashes from Maxedo because she thought she was kissing Max so she was open to it. I also think she hasn't had any flashes from Max lately because she has had to shut her heart down in order to cope with things since TEOTW. The only time I think she opened up slightly was in VLV, when I believe all the 'what might have beens' associated with that place led to her unconsciously sending that wedding vision to Max.

Okay, back to food... I'm mildly hurt you're not all advocates of the food poisoning theory, but it doesn't change my mind about it. It may not be THE key but I do believe it's part of how the warp is being maintained.

Finally, my hats off to the decision makers who switched the order of the episodes. I think it was a stroke of genius to air OTM as a reflection! It makes all the episodes fresh and new for clues! I think if we'd seen it in its chronological position the subsequent epis would have lost a great deal of their drama.

Imo, these are excellent writers (even though I HATE the dupes as characters...) What's so good about the writing on Roswell is that as the story progresses your understanding of the previous story line changes! If you write tv like that you'll keep your audience viewing rerun episodes for years.

The shadow- There is definitly someone standing there when Brody is unconscious. You can even see part of the hand. I however am certain I saw a boob. I also see the thing in the shadows by the stairs, but I thought it was one of the aliens...the rubber alien doll thingies.

The "trigger"-Ok. Go back and watch these five eps in sequence, and watch for this=Tess either touches Max, or says his name, and voila Stepford Max The trigger?
* examples of this (for those not reviewing)
OTM: Tess says Max's name twice and presto Stepford Max walks over to her and says I do remember;

ITLITB: Max's 'I've lost everyone' moment Tess grabs his hand and he very unemotionally kisses her and in a very flat voice 'I'm ready to wake up now' two seconds later they are boinking. Stepford Max rides again;

BIY: In the hallway at school, Max is so not happy to see Tess, gets all excited that Michael interupts them...Tess says Max blah blah bliddy blah and guess what? Stepford Max takes her hand and they walk down the hall together (although, he really looks nauseaous the whole time);

There are lots more, but this post is way long already. So am I insane or what?*

The Alex Investigation- So are we to assume that Liz is never going to get any credit or recognition for the lengths she went to to find out the truth? Which resulted in some form of translation of the Destiny Book...although, from the transcripts of the front page I've seen...does it really tell them the way home? (Max glances at the front page and casually says "Its the way home." Gee Max, don't get all excited about the prospect of saving your unborn child or anything )

The DB- Ok. Correct me if I am wrong here, but doesn't the transcipt say that only the R4 can access the Pod Chamber??? So exactly how in the heck did Edsedo get in? Repeatedly? I find the whole thing suspicious. Anyone else? No? Alrighty then.

Val

huggybehr: I like your way of thinking. I also think that Liz will be the only one who can help Max recover his memory. Of course the best and the quickest way would be a long hot steamy kiss.

Melodious: You have good reason to speculate on the aunthenticity of the Season One writer who posted on the Shiri thread. But even if she is not legit, it's a great thread for a true Roswell writer to trip upon. Don't you think? We have discovered that they do tend to lurk.

Evid

Maybe you're right about the shadowy figure by the stairs. Maybe it is a "rubber doll thingy". But why can't we see it when Max turns on the power lights? It should be out of the shadows by then. Well, it's very possible my imagination is overworked. Does everyone think I just lost a night of sleep over a piece of plastic?

My take on Sean: I think the guy likes burgers. Remember Zero (I think it was Zero) commenting on the burger that took forever for him to eat? And what does he do when he has a problem? He writes it in mustard. The moment he got Brody to focus on everyday mudane matters like burgers (and Brody would usually order pepperjack, as we all know) the guy relaxed. It's probably a good negotiating technique.

I'm wondering if when Liz had her hand on Sean's wound and her eyes connected with Max's, she was able to heal Sean enough that he was no longer in a bad way. Max was thinking about his love for her at that moment. Perhaps the tri-thing has no effect on "changed" humans.

Are we all convinced none of Sean's memories were affected? He's never mentioned anything in later episodes. -HH

quote:Originally posted by Psyche_G:
posted by 4everyoung
**Another take on the refuge sign. Note the triangle with the capital T in it. I know it is a trademark or something, but they sure did show it enough.
____________________________________________

But what if you replace the letter that got shout out, G. And replace it with the one in the triangle, T. The word then becomes refute. Which means:

1 : to prove wrong by argument or evidence : show to be false or erroneous
2 : to deny the truth or accuracy of

Possibly trying to tell us that events that happen after that moment are not to be completely believed? It seems too coincidental to me. There has to be something to that.

Thanks Psyche_G, that makes the sign make a lot of sense.

I have really been pondering something (mind on overload beware)!!!!! Then I read a post on one of the other threads that really brought it into a new light (blink blink)

Here goes. Behr with me here this is a little long (beware overloaded mind wandering ideas ahead)- When Tess tries to access Brody's mind she says it is too crowed. But just before she lets go, there is a green flash and when Max heals Brody, just before he lets go there is a green flash. Both act as if they have just gotten a 'jolt'. Was Brody set as a booby trap to altar Max's mind by sending a timewarp charge into he and Tess? Green flash - green rod. Are both Tess and Max being made to believe things that aren't real? We learned a while back, I think in WO, that the aliens live in multi-demensions. Is that what is happening here? In WO the humans disappeared so that Nic and his crew could find the aliens, but what if they only want to make certain people believe something other than what is happening so that they will want to go home? What if they used Brody to plant a time warp into both Max and Tess so that they are living in a multi-demensional world and what they think is real is not? Tess already has been programmed by Nesado and possibly Lonnie to believe all the destiny stuff and if she is Lonnie's card, then she was already primed. They just needed a way to get to Max to make him want to go home. What better way then to set off a time demensional warp through Brody that would affect only Tess and Max. No one else would try to access Brody's mind. They have Tess all primed with the destiny stuff so she unknowingly becomes the key that they can use to get to Max. They want the R4 to return home so Rath and Lonnie set up a trap to make a timeline that causes Max and Tess to believe that Max has remembered his love for Tess, they did the deed, that Tess is pregnant, that they baby is dying because of being here on Earth, & that Alex translated the 'true' book (believe there must be two books). Nic would be involved somehow also.

ok, far fetched, left field, but that's one theory I thought of. Feed back please...

I believe..........Thanks UPN

Maybe you're right about the shadowy figure by the stairs. Maybe it is a "rubber doll thingy". But why can't we see it when Max turns on the power lights? It should be out of the shadows by then. Well, it's very possible my imagination is overworked. Does everyone think I just lost a night of sleep over a piece of plastic?

Ok, I watched again and you are right, the thing isn't there when the lights come on...freaky.

I am of the belief that there were two shapeshifters, Edsedo was the creepy one, and Tic-Tac was the one that popped tictacs way back in S1. Edsedo=bad, Tic-Tac=good. Edsedo is the one who died, the one who hatched that phenomenally a$$ backwards and upside down plan in MttM, the one who rather randomly whacked humans whenever he felt the urge, etc, etc. Tic-Tac killed Hank, caught Max & Liz at the end of SH...but thats just my opinion

Val

Piping in on the "Sean" discussion! I too think it is weird that his memory was not erased, but he does NOT bring up the strange goings on in (what would be) later episodes. Plus, Brody is not in any of those "later" episodes. I still view Sean as a good guy, but, of course, I'm open to the posibility that he might not be. The "I want a burger" I believe was his way of attempting to distract Brody and defuse some of the tension in there. I don't know that he would have automatically though - "oh, Valenti will send Liz with the burgers." Sean seems to have been around the block a few times - and I think the attraction to Liz is real - whether he be good or bad - I think he has true feelings for her. Now - of course - I want Liz and Max together, but I believe they have some significant relationship rebuilding that needs to go on once all this Tex stuff is over. And - I'm still appreciative to Sean for making Liz smile after witnessing the stomach-churning M/T kiss!

BTW - Edsedo is a combination of Ed Harding/Nesado.

I'm going to be absent for a day - so have fun specutaling in my absence, and I'll catch up tomorrow night!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There!
FAN!

Anyone care to take a stab at(geez did I say STAB) who Tess' cousin is? Brody says, excuse me Love I just want to borrow your cousin..." Any guesses here?

4everyoung--will have to watch the green flashes tomorrow. hope they're easier to see than the ones in Hawaii. And did I ever ask you if your name is from the Bob Dylan song? Bob Dylan was the best thing to come along since Leonardo Da Vinci. And now we have Roswell.

Second,

quote:Originally posted by Evid:
Is Sean Tic-Tac? I always thought it was Tic-Tac who saved Liz in the house of mirrors, not Harding.

The only problem I have is.. didn't we find out that their ISN'T two SS's? I think this is a CHAD since we saw two little glowey-guys in Sof47, but then I remember reading somewhere from JK that there's only one SS "around" (of course, that was a while ago and maybe it was prior to Sof47 and they changed it?). These things are so confusing these days.

quote:Originally posted by Valkyre:
The shadow- There is definitly someone standing there when Brody is unconscious. You can even see part of the hand. I however am certain I saw a boob. I also see the thing in the shadows by the stairs, but I thought it was one of the aliens...the rubber alien doll thingies.

Are you telling me I have to go back and watch OTM for BOOB Shadows!?

Sorry if this has been posted previously - I haven't had time to read the last two pages!

shapeshifter, you mentioned on page 5 that maybe the shadow was bad editing, and let's face it, my creepy alien shapeshifter lurking by the stairs may be a prop (THANK YOU VALKYRE for noticing it disappears!). (and Steph, MY alien-in-the-shadows definitely does NOT have big BOOBS! ) The thing is, next Monday's blurb says Max is trying to stop a killer who is after everyone he loves.

It wouldn't be characteristic of JK and his crew to pull a sinister murderer out of nowhere. They would leave us clues beforehand and I'm convinced we're finding them. We've agreed it feels like someone is watching. I think it's the malevolent shapeshifter. He may decide with the hybrids heading towards certain extinction, all he has to do is wipe out the humans who knew them, beginning with Alex. I say right now, any shadow or anomoly is suspect.

I do hope you got some quality sleep. We depend on your clear-headed ideas!
-HH

Oh, and Gracekel, nothing is a coincidence on this show. I'm sure the barbecue and white fence at the center are deliberate.

I rewatched the episode last night, and I noticed a couple of things that I wanted to bring up again....

- Right before the show starts, the announcer says that Max Evans finally reveals to his enemies the truth about who he is (or somethign to that effect). In any case, since we know that the truth was revealed to 'Brody', does that make him an enemy, or were they implying that someone else in the UFO center is his enemy -- who didn't already know Max was an alien, meaning Sean?????
- OK, I haven't seen one person comment on the fact that the virtual reality device was really a bike helmet. I was ROTFLMAO at that prop. Very creative.
- I am really bothered by the fact that Brody said "I'm going to let her in" about Liz when she was delivering the food BEFORE he saw her. (can we be sure he didn't see her on top of the stairs before he said that?)
- I personally think that Larek/Brody is going to become more of a player in this saga. I really do question the validity of his memories. Have we ever stopped to question that it's not a COINCIDENCE that Brody ended up in Roswell, as Max Evans boss...this is the same person who Larek uses as a vessel!!! I know Brody has said that he bought the UFO center to research alien abductions, but did he really need to do that??? Or was his purchase of the UFO center controlled by outside forces? Is it a fluke that he appeared on the scene *relatively* close to the time that Tess did? Could *Larek* have political motivation to try and get Max/Zan to go home? Maybe to perhaps stop the fighting on their planets? Maybe Larek and Zan were really good friends at one point, but during the 50 years that Zan has been absent from their home zone, he has developed an alliance with the other rulers of the five planets whose goals are to get Zan back to Antar so that the fighting can finally stop? In MITC they seemed to imply that Max/Zan had made alot of enemies by his decision NOT to return home. I don't know, but this episode really made me think about Larek/Brody in a more meaningful way. Something was just not right about it. How did he become in posession of the pentagon device in the first place? Is it a coincidence that this device prevents the podsters from using their powers? Does it work on *all* aliens, or just the hybrid types? And if it only works on the *hybrid* types -- who gave it to Brody? I know he said he bought it from a guy who deals in alien artifacts, but now that we know what it is *used* for I find that explanation highly doubtful - unless he got it from a guy who deals with alien artifacts that regularly peels all the skin off his body. Remember in Destiny when they showed all the aliens around the world being alerted to the podsters presence on earth, it was done through that device. Comforting that there are so many of them out there, isn't it? And while we are on the subject of this device, why didn't the skins use it on the podsters in Harvest and WipeOut? You would naturally assume that they, of all the enemies, were in posession of this device. You can assume that it also prevents them from using their powers...but then WHY would it be used as a communication device? That kind of makes no sense.

OTM really irked me because I felt it created a whole new legion of CHADS and loose ends that need to be answered!!!

OK, that's all I can think of for now, as you guys have pretty much covered everything else.

{~}:}

I just sent in my thank you donation to Pediatric Cancer Foundation. If we all send a little it will be a lot!! WE can do it!
For more information go here:
http://www.crashdown.com/UPNthanks.shtml

~Sheri
A grateful fan!

GraceKel: I'm sorry I didn't see your last post on this subject. But ITA, you are on to something. What I also found interesting is what Richie/Max said before the Hal/Michael comment.

RICHIE: What if something's really out there...capable of destroying us? Destroying everything?

HAL: Don't worry, Richie. You're still gonna get your wife and your white picket fence and your backyard barbecue...

I also thought that Liz carrying the tray of food (as she would be doing during a backyard barbecue) might be a clue telling us that Liz is indeed the wife Hal mentions to Richie.

Evid

I can assure you guys of a few things. One, the situation with Tess will be resolved in the SF. Two, while a lot of questions will be answered, they left some that aren't in case they were indeed picked up. Three, JK will pick next season's writers much more carefully. We aren't the only ones who've been a little disappointed with this gruop of writers.
And 3, next season will be in better hands, mostly JK & J. Frakes.

About the white picket fence & the BBQ, did you notice that this museum set-up was also in "Meet the Dupes"? Remember the scene in which Maria was getting on to Liz for not having told her about the Rath kiss & Alex was asleep in the lawn chair behind them? For some reason, I thought that it was supposed to be a set out of E.T. or something.

The second part of the translated book said something about alien abductions. What a vague area for development in future episodes. -HH

I can assure you guys of a few things. One, the situation with Tess will be resolved in the SF. Two, while a lot of questions will be answered, they left some that aren't in case they were indeed picked up. Three, JK will pick next season's writers much more carefully. We aren't the only ones who've been a little disappointed with this gruop of writers.
And 3, next season will be in better hands, mostly JK & J. Frakes.

this is good news!! I also thought OTM created a long list of CHADs, especially about the alien communicator things. Whatever happened to Howie and the others? I am SO grateful to UPN! let's all write thank you notes!!

We must all go back and find the boob shadows! Heh, sorry I couldn't help myself...

Anyways, lets see...the whole two shapeshifter thing is like detailed and complicated...so if you are really interested and have a few hours free, go over to CHADs and ask...probably The Roswellian to direct you to the old threads where we spec'd and theorized on it. Not that continuity is something the writers strive for but still, the shapeshifter(s) seemed to be two entirely different entities. One seemed benevolent, more focused on protecting and guiding the Podsters, and the other was more violent and more interested in his own agenda (this would be Edsedo, the ss who raised Tess). Edsedo was...stupid. I have so many issues with that idiotic plan of his from MttM! But alas, that is for another thread.

Ok, for clarification, the shadow that I thought looked like a woman from the side (boob, I tell you!) is when Brody gets zapped, after the scene of the front of the Crashdown when the lights in the spaceship go off, right as the camera pans down from the light in Brody's office, on the left side of the screen. It is only there for like one second as the camera is sweeping over the room/VR equip/Brody/lights/etc. Are you confused yet?
The other figure that is standing by the stairs as Max walks to the fuse box does not have boobs. At least not that I could see.

Grrrr I need screencaps darn it!

Val

That reminds me - when T and Max are in her room.. I think it's at the end of OTM (maybe the last scene?), there's a poster behind T - is it the BSB? I was trying to figure it out when I watched OTM the first time, but didn't and haven't watched it again.

Could be a VERY big clue though.. Howie's a BSB, right!?

Second,
The only problem I have is.. didn't we find out that their ISN'T two SS's? I think this is a CHAD since we saw two little glowey-guys in Sof47, but then I remember reading somewhere from JK that there's only one SS "around" (of course, that was a while ago and maybe it was prior to Sof47 and they changed it?). These things are so confusing these days. [/B]
First of all, in Season 1 we saw two different methods of shapeshifting (different special effects!), and two different personalities and mannerisms. We concluded that there must be two shapeshifters. In WR we were told that there were two glowy-guys captured alive; one later escaped. There may have been a dozen that didn't get caught. In So47, we saw at least two... but were they the ones that got caught (later), or were these two more? (And one of those looks female to me. Added, just in case... ) So there's at least two: one developed into Mr. Harding, the other hasn't been seen since Crazy. Not convinced? Click here for what we RBI's figured out before: http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/tictac.htm

JK said there was only one? Huh. He also said Liz wasn't changed, didn't he? And while he said there was no season planned, RM said it was the tightest season planning he'd ever seen. They lie. They tell us contradicting stories, to keep us guessing. Point: the "writer" on that thread. If he was really a Writer, you couldn't trust him!

I've just been lurking for a few days, and y'all seem to have gone nuts since OTM. Liz is now an alien, and Tess is the hellish hellbeast from hell? Phooey. I can't argue without evidence... OK, I can, but it's not as much fun. Usually.

I guess I'll just have to re-watch it again. <sigh> O the pain...
I'll be back.

I was lurking over at the BOB thread, the posters are funny they are saying Bob's death is not real, that it's just mindwarp. I hope they're right, I love that jeep.
Oh right, get to the point Evid. Have any of you realized that their has only been a certain group of four who drove Bob. Does Bob only allow the Royal four to sit in the drivers seat?

Max

Liz

Isabel

Michael

Evid

That is exactly what I was thinking... If Liz/Max got married, then Liz would have never needed to go deeper into the whole Tess as evil thing, because Tess would have left. FMax would have :Assumed: that the reason they were losing was because they didn't have Tess... when in actuality they were losing because Liz never realized her true destiny/ powers.

Everyone has such great theories and comments that I can't resist reading this thread. (& too many people to mention)

I have a spec/observation: Re-watching OTM, I realized that there is too many references that point to the fact that Sean is not as innocent as he seems. 1. Getting into the UFO Center for the Deluca's should have been a difficult task, being it LOCKS automatically when the power goes off. Valenti mentions this!! Michael and Isabel needed to use their powers to get in. 2. He ordered fries -- Brody guessed something was amiss immediately after his discussion with Liz about the so called fries. 3. The fact that he won't mention anything to the police - just because Liz agreed she'd go out with him. 4. He has not once questioned why his aunt LOST her memory of the event. . . . . there is probably more, but I'll leave it at that.

Here is my spec: I feel that Sean conspired with Tess. You help me, I'll help you. Tess wants Max, Sean wants Liz. Remember in HOM, Liz mentions to Maria that she feels Max and herself are going in two different directions?? They are both being pulled apart by Sean & Tess.

I think it would be safe for me to say that we know what Tess wants--Max and to go home!! But what about Sean?? Is he Liz's protector or what is he trying to do?? He's been stalking her every move to keep her away from Max - to help her "grow"?? . . . or is it to have her as his own??

I felt the hostage situation was to make him look good. He wanted to look like a hero. Get on everyone's good side and win Liz over!!

His comment to Brody/Larek: "she's not an alien, she's an innocent girl" -- Sheila Hubble's baby was an innocent girl?? The pod squad are not aliens either - they are hybrids!!

Watch at the beginning when Brody approached Tess & Max - Tess seemed surprised that he was there and then somewhat disappointed!! It looked to me like she rolled her eyes as if "the plan didn't work - it didn't go right". Or what was that look??

Did anyone feel that Isabel was way to cool about the whole hostage thing?? Remember her hysterical/worried state she was in when Max was in the White Room or even the episode WO?? Has she matured or is she Lonnie??

Flipping back to Sean: In MTTM, Nacedo saved Liz first before Max. He was protecting her - just like Sean. Could Sean be Nacedo?? Or, are all the aliens attracted to Liz - because we all know how IMPORTANT SHE IS!! --- We have Max's attraction from day 1 off the school bus. We have Mickey G expressing he envies Max - Liz. (Missing) We have Nacedo wanting Liz by his side - saying "nobody will ever come between us". (MTTM) Now Sean!!

Hopefully, my post is coherent!! My mind is in overdrive!!

- I personally think that Larek/Brody is going to become more of a player in this saga. I really do question the validity of his memories. Have we ever stopped to question that it's not a COINCIDENCE that [b]Brody ended up in Roswell, as Max Evans boss...this is the same person who Larek uses as a vessel!!! I know Brody has said that he bought the UFO center to research alien abductions, but did he really need to do that??? Or was his purchase of the UFO center controlled by outside forces? Is it a fluke that he appeared on the scene *relatively* close to the time that Tess did? Could *Larek* have political motivation to try and get Max/Zan to go home? Maybe to perhaps stop the fighting on their planets? Maybe Larek and Zan were really good friends at one point, but during the 50 years that Zan has been absent from their home zone, he has developed an alliance with the other rulers of the five planets whose goals are to get Zan back to Antar so that the fighting can finally stop? In MITC they seemed to imply that Max/Zan had made alot of enemies by his decision NOT to return home. I don't know, but this episode really made me think about Larek/Brody in a more meaningful way. Something was just not right about it. How did he become in posession of the pentagon device in the first place? Is it a coincidence that this device prevents the podsters from using their powers? Does it work on *all* aliens, or just the hybrid types? And if it only works on the *hybrid* types -- who gave it to Brody? I know he said he bought it from a guy who deals in alien artifacts, but now that we know what it is *used* for I find that explanation highly doubtful - unless he got it from a guy who deals with alien artifacts that regularly peels all the skin off his body.
{~}:}[/B]

I questioned a little earlier whether Larek is not the friend he says he is and Brody is just the poor chump being used by Larek and completely unaware of what Larek may be doing. Therefore, in OTM it wasn't Brody with Larek memories, but Larek acting like Brody with Larek memories. Tess and Larek were working together in OTM. When Brody's body was thrown across the room in the beginning, that's when Larek took over; not a result of the power surge and resulting outage, but the power surge/outage was a result of Larek inhabiting Brody's body while Brody was wearing the vr helmet.

TP--I must say I am right there with you on those speculations about Sean/Nasedo---I posted this after watching HOM but I don't think people thought too much of it but at the beginning of ep--when Sean drives up from his date with Liz and they are in the car--the camera pans around outside---I noticed a sign that said HE and then the next store window said "COLLECTIBLE ANTIQUES" well who is a collector of ANTIQUES???-===Mr Creepy Ed Harding that is who! LOL!!! But I have also made the DOUG SHELLOW connection too here with Sean because Liz says she learned something from probably the LEAST DEEP guy in America---LEAST DEEP means SHALLOW---Max calls Doug Shellow--Doug Shallow in Blind Date hmmmmm--so was this also Mr Creepy--not sure cuz we saw the BLUE FLASH and Nasedo's has always been YELLOW so this blows me off that theory--so then I say well maybe TICTAC hmmmm

Oh another thing I noticed is in BLIND DATE one of the band members in Alex's band's name is NIKO------if you look at the guitar strap it has the same pattern that we see on the bus in WIPEOUT while Nicholas and Isabel are in the bus---so was NIKO Nicholas????

OT: Does anyone happen to know what happens to the rerun rights for Seasons 1 & 2 when UPN takes possession? Will they be able to show them this summer? I'm remembering the awesome discussions we had last summer when viewing the earlier eps with a post-Destiny hindsight.

OT: Does anyone happen to know what happens to the rerun rights for Seasons 1 & 2 when UPN takes possession? Will they be able to show them this summer? I'm remembering the awesome discussions we had last summer when viewing the earlier eps with a post-Destiny hindsight.[/B]
True? It sounds like an official leak about Colin Hanks, then. Hmm. Some people have said that there are "official" spoilers that are false, planted to keep us guessing. It would take some doing to explain to everyone how Alex lived...

As for reruns? If UPN wanted to run them, I doubt that anyone would object; and since Regency is a corporate relative, permission should be easy. Here's hoping!

About plants:

I can't speak for everyone, but while on set of CYN I got into a conversation with the crew about spoilers. I said that I knew all about Alex's death. It was leaked to me two weeks before I came to LA. The conversation then turned to what's online and what's not online. They were talking about meetings they had been in and ways to prevent leaks. (Maybe not meetings, maybe memos and such.) I said that the leak was not in the crew or cast. It had to be from the WB... As I said that the script for "Viva Las Vegas" was already on someone's site, for anyone to read. And VLV hadn't even aired yet.

The plants or official false spoilers is to find the WB leak IMHO. And it's not an entire script, it's only one page within the script. I am sure there are also real scripts that got turned down by the WB as well that got leaked out there.

The reason why TPTB do not like spoilers is because it takes control of the story away from them. They work incrediably hard on just one episode and then to find out that the fans already know what happens, who says what and etc diminishes the story's presentation. It really has nothing to do with trying to confuse the fans, and shouldn't be interpreted that way.

Now - something I've been trying to post on Tess mindwarping Max. Back when she first came to Roswell, Tess was able to mindwarp Max with little difficulty. But as Max learned that something was "wrong" he found someway to fight back. In the scene where Tess recovers the Saturn book, Liz tells Max, "That's why I'm here, to help you snap out of it if she trys something."

In TLV Liz basically tells Tess, to stop it. And she does. Tess has never mindwarped Liz, and I wonder if she can. When Max realized that Tess was doing something and Liz supported Max, the mindwarps stopped. I wonder if Liz is like a sheild for Max? Their connection to one another made it too difficult to mindwarp them. However, in the last episode, the green flashs as before mentioned, the possiblity of a mindwarp lingers... Can Tess mindwarp Max? Liz is present, but Max and Liz are not connected anymore. That was what EOTW was all about....

I'm probably way off my rocker on this one, but it's worth thinking about.

Anyway, I just rewatched OTM and have a bunch of notes to share. Hopefully someone will be interested. Here goes:

The gun: Brody is being Brody when he takes and uses the gun. But he is being nutso Brody, not the Brody that Maria knows. The song that plays at the end when they talk has a line about someone being different. Anyone catch it? And nice Brody was healed of cancer by the aliens and wants to meet them to thank them, I thought.

The sweater: Tess says to Max, "If you don't want it, I can just give it to Kyle." Hmmm...."give it to Kyle" as in "it" as we used to call what Liz supposedly gave to Kyle as far as Max still knows. Speaking of reverse psychology--Max might not have been using it on Brody, but sure sounds like Tess does.

The device: It's a "trithium abdification generator." Hmmm...sounds like something we could use here in California to keep the lights on. When a king "abdicates" the throne, he surrenders it to someone else, i. e. Kvar. And "trithium" sounds like three of something--like the original three aliens: Michael, Max, and Isabel.

Seans's burger & fry order: Okay, Brody is trying to articulate his "demands." His "demands" are to know about the aliens. Sean creates a diversion away from that. I still think he struck a deal to get out of jail free, and it might have been related to a Monopoly.

Sinage: Behind Max and Tess where they are tied up for quite a bit of camera time is a sign: "Property of US Army" Okay, here's YAT (yet another theory): The army created the NM4 to replace the Dupes. Duplicates were "duplicates" of the original Royals, but the NM4 are "clones." Tess and Ava were switched by Nasedo to counter-act the Army's plan to short circuit the alien take over via the Dupes. Nasedo and Tess fabricated the mommogram.

Tess didn't mindwarp Sean because Liz strikes a deal with Sean that she will go out with him which is ultimately what Tess needs to displace Liz with Max. Remember when FM said it was Liz who had to change? Well, as long as she still loves Max, Max will never really be able to love Tess.

Can't wait for Monday!!!

I can't see Tess as a victim and I'm looking forward to know what is motivating her to mind warp Max, and to finally find out Liz's place in all this.

That said I'm just glad we have a new season to look forward to thanks to UPN

Possible Season 3 scenario: With Jason Behr nearing 30 years of age (well, 28 will be close), how about if FM comes back to Liz to hang out with her? Maybe a younger, 30-year-old FM. And we could pick up with it being 3 years later when she's in college and 21.

I thought I remembered an interview shortly after TEOTW in which JK said Liz was going to tell Max about not sleeping with Kyle before the end of the season. So it's gotta happen next week, unless it got cut out. Or unless I remember wrong.

Oh, and in the opening of OTM, Max is whistling "She'll be coming round the mountain when she comes." So then, if this would have been after VLV he would have been thinking about Liz and how close they were to getting back together. Again, I do think Tess has real memories, but Max does not--she is 'sharing' hers with him--not because she's evil, but because she thinks she's right. I think maybe the "someone else to come along" for whom Ava's Zan was waiting could have been Tess because their pods were switched (by Nasedo to further his 'go home' agenda).

I thought I remembered an interview shortly after TEOTW in which JK said Liz was going to tell Max about not sleeping with Kyle before the end of the season. So it's gotta happen next week, unless it got cut out. Or unless I remember wrong.

Remember- at the time Departure was filmed - all sources were saying Roswell was "dead and buried" - so I would expect a semi-tidy ending as far as the relationships go.

About Colin - not only did he need out to film a major movie - but his mom is dying. I think the permenance of Alex's death is open at this point - but there are probably no immediate plans to bring him back - at east not until things settle down for him.

About spoilers - if you watch your sources - they can be shockingly accurate. We even knew almost play-by-play details of the tex months in advance - and youd think they would have kept that a secret! I have been spoiled accurately this entire season - and only two minor details have been wrong.
That said - TPTB have managed to keep large (and very important) details of the finale under wraps - so even the spoiled really dont know how everything will play out. Noone knows what happens in the pod chamber - and the wild feed for the satellite dish owners didnt air last night - so looks like everyone wil be waiting for Monday together.

Re: Season reruns - I heard that they would start showing on the Sci Fi channel.

BTW - I need a good tape copy of OTM - since my pwer went off I am missing about 5 minutes. I can swap for any episode (other than Summer of 47).

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

Nothing really to add on the current topic, but I have to point out something I seen while watching SH last night. Liz and Max were in Michael's apartment, talking about the hickey. She makes a comment that it appeared the way it did because they were away from each other too long. Then she further said that it could be a disaster!! You can say that again!! Max definitely is in balance with Liz around. Take a look at the sobbering kiss on Blind Date.

Anyways, great theories guys. I allways enjoy coming here!!

QFanny-- Great idea about Liz being able to shield Max from mindwarping powers. That would make Liz the protector that we all talk about. Her being human and linking with Max may some way enable her not to let enemy evil powers to effect her, therefore protecting Max so he fulfills his destiny and her Destiny as part of the Royal Fours existance. Because they are not destined to go home, until they defeat their enemies on earth, not because Tess is expecting.

later mythers
Chicatron
GO Vols

I like your theory (with StephStephSteph) about Liz and Tess, and hope it's right.

JK has already eluded to things being different next season. Someone asked him about a rumor going around about next season to which he said: "This is UPN, Not the WB!"
You can be assured the story will flow much better next season.

It's also been said Sean will return next season & so will Brody in an expanded role.

JK has already eluded to things being different next season. Someone asked him about a rumor going around about next season to which he said: "This is UPN, Not the WB!"
You can be assured the story will flow much better next season.

It's also been said Sean will return next season & so will Brody in an expanded role.

Hello queenAmidala ! I was part taker in the side of the arguement that she was not . Others disagree claiming she knew enough about the royals etc.

SUN-"The sun is the absolute cosmic power; it is the universal FATHER, while the MOON is the universal MOTHER; it is often symbolized by the WHEEL or the disk, a CIRCLE or a BALL; it is the center of being and intuition, it is knowledge and warmth, glory and splendour."

Hmmmmm so Liz is the moon and the universal Mother. The sun is symbolized by the wheel. Is that why wheels keep popping up- at the end of Harvest and in the Valenti's house?

Wheel and Circle-"It implies an idea of movement, and symbolizes the cycle of time, the per petual motion of everything that moves, the planets' journey around the sun (the circle of the zodiac), the great rhythm of the universe."

Moon-"The moon is a feminine symbol, universally representing the rhythm of time as it embodies the cycle. The phases of the moon symbolize immortality and eternity, enlightenment or the dark side of Nature herself. It might reflect inner knowledge, or the phases of man's condition on earth, since it controls the tides, the rains, the waters, and the seasons. It is the middle ground between the light of the sun and the darkness of night, and thus often represents the realm
between the conscious and the unconscious. In astrology, the moon is a symbol of the soul, and in the horoscope it determines the subject's capacity for reflection and adaptation. It also provides analogy for the stages of human development: the new moon is infancy, the crescent is youth and adolescence, the full moon is maturity and pregnancy, and the waning moon represents the decline of life, sleep."

Well that certainly applies to Liz. She does have inner knowledge-the capacity to see the evil within others thus protecting the pod squad and the humans. As the realm between the conscious and unconscious she can determine what is real and fake.http://bbs2.fanforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

The link to this site is http://www.umich.edu/~umfandsf/symbolismproject/symbolism.html/index.html

He's definitely closing in on those supposedly missing memories from during his abductions. I hope that next year he officially joins the IKAAC. He seems like he is favorably disposed toward aliens. I've pointed out before, he refers to security cameraS. If he reviews the other videos, he should get some idea of what's going on.

Sean is close, too; a couple of pointed questions, and he's in. I wish Amy DeLuca would join for keeps, too. Mr. Valenti needs someone to talk to, and I think Tess could use some female parenting. Like not jumping the first guy you take a fancy to, birth control until you actually can raise a baby, etc. I think Amy knows quite a bit about such things...

In TLV Liz basically tells Tess, to stop it. And she does. Tess has never mindwarped Liz, and I wonder if she can. When Max realized that Tess was doing something and Liz supported Max, the mindwarps stopped. I wonder if Liz is like a shield for Max? Their connection to one another made it too difficult to mindwarp them. However, in the last episode, the green flashs as before mentioned, the possiblity of a mindwarp lingers... Can Tess mindwarp Max? Liz is present, but Max and Liz are not connected anymore. That was what EOTW was all about....

I'm probably way off my rocker on this one, but it's worth thinking about.

Welcome back, Qfanny! It's good to see you've been thinking. I agree that Tess does seem to "knock it off", after Liz tells her to. I believe that this indicates that Tess is, at least, not the "hellish hellbeast from hell" that some would portray her as. True, she did say that she could "make" Max love her, but it wouldn't last.

It seems to me that Tess's abilities are temporary. Either she has to keep them going (as in Pierce's orb vision, in "White Room"), or they fade into unreality (as Max's erotic daydreams, or the FBI agents' seeming orders from Pierce in "Destiny"). Since (I believe) that Tess is interested in Max for the long term, it would be ineffective (and probably counter-productive) to force herself on him.

As for Tess not being able to MW Liz, I don't think she's tried. Have we seen this? I think that there's no point to it, for Tess. She has MWed Isabel, though, so it seems that the aliens can be affected; and probably all the humans too. (She did the FBI agents, for example.)

I think that Liz, at least sometimes, can "restore the balance" for Max. She did in "Blind Date", for example, when he was drunk. Whether she could diminish or reverse a MW is another matter; I suspect it depends on how connected Max is to Liz at the time.

So is Tess mind-warping Max or not? I don't see how she would want to. Of course, her (ahem) mind could have been changed (ahem) in MitC. I don't think so, but don't know yet.

The satellite feed for the Season Finale was scrambled! (Arrgh.) They had not done this before. My guess is that they've been editing through the last minute; and that there were some scenes shot in two or more ways: different depending on renewal or not, plus possibly a false version as a spoiler. I'll bet that at least some of the promo was the cancelled or false versions. Crashing Bob The Jeep, for example. Showing only arms around Max, but not whose. And nothing villanous, even though the written promo refers to a villan? Hmmm.

Yes, Tess is certainly super powerful. You guys in the "Fan in Training Pants" always seem to bring us back to the big picture. So then, who would be the obvious mate for Tess? Kvar or Nicholas! No wonder Kvar is so ticked at them.

And yes, to whomever pointed out that maybe FM and FL were wrong in assuming that the only thing they needed to do was put Tess with Max.

Nemo & Reg: Yes, Brody says Nicholas' name. I assume it's just a Larek memory.

And Reg, on the blocked Satellite feed: bummer! But did they do it just to surprise us? And did you notice on Maria's Intro to OTM that even though the part about it being a flash back was spliced in, it was all shot at the same time? She has 2 small zits on her usually flawless chin in the same place in both pieces of tape. So, this could mean either:
1) They had a plan A and a plan B ready to go (like Reg is suggesting for the finale)
or:
2) They want us to think they had to splice it in and that it was originally supposed to air earlier but that they changed it. Why would they do this?
I also heard that they chose not to air it as originally scheduled because of school shootings at that time--but I fail to see how a possible high school student's (Alex's) death and alleged suicide would be any better to air than a hostage situation.
I suppose there's also:
3) They shot all the Maria scenes later on, and I think I'm mixing myself up here. Is it Monday yet?

superpoohb - I really enjoyed all the Harry Potter books, reading them with my son! I can hardly wait until the Movie comes out!

Stumbled on "Dark City" last night on UPN - my new favorite channel, and though I had seen it before, I thought some of the similarities were interesting. It came out about the same time as the Matrix, and though very different - very similar in some fundamental ways. I'm not going to give the "ending" away in case you have never watched it, but some of the connections to Roswell's potential storylines were the existance of a human that though superior mind power is able to compete and destroy the alien captors, the use of illusion and mind control by the aliens, and aliens that have a collective conscienceness and want to find out what makes "humans" "human" - which ultimately is not what goes on in their heads, but what goes on in their hearts. Umm....! Sound familiar!

Reggie - sorry that the feed was scrambled. I'm very nervous of the final episode for some reason - which is dumb, but ... I'm not thrilled of the thought of Tess being "totally evil" or the thought of Tess going home pregnant. I don't think I can stand another season of a triangle - even if it is intergalactic! I want the whole triangle thing settled once and for all some way some how! I'm hoping that Tess is more a pawn in the bigger plot, but ... JUST settle it already!

BTW - REMEMBER: "George W is an Alien" (Couldn't resist! )

Well - look like I won't get the Intro done before Monday night unless I get some quality time tonight and tomorrow. At least I didn't have to spend the entire day today at a track meet.

Here's to hope that the FINALE is WONDERFUL - from a Liz Myth perspective!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There!

BIG Harry fan here!! You bring up a good point. Perhaps Khivar or someone is controlling Tess or has given her a mission and she's torn between accepting it and rejecting it. Sort of like possessed by Queen Jellyfish Grant. He didn't WANT to kill Isabel but he knew he was SUPOSSED to! Can't WAIT to see Departure! DARN work will interfere so I won't get to see it until my day off Thursday! ::praying that the WB reception comes in well enough to tape!::

My guess is #2. They knew we'd be all over the episode for edits, so they threw in a bunch of obvious ones for us to "consider". The zits might even be faked for us! None of the other early feeds have been encrypted like this, so I'm sure it's on purpose. <sigh>

I can still get WB on the cable at home, but that's not 'till Monday. Bummer indeed. And, no UPN on the Cable, yet. That's Plan A.

My plan B is to coax DirecTV into adding UPN to my Distant Network Feeds. As a truck driver, I'm legally allowed this package because I'm a "mobile" user: no way of being sure that I have any local stations at all. Same thing goes for folks with an RV, BTW. (Hey, everybody get a Winabego! ) So I get all 4 big networks, East & West coast feeds, already. This would probably give me a better picture, except in heavy rain.

Plan C is to find a location that does get UPN, and get an antenna and VCR there at the appropriate moment. There are several possibilities...

George Bush is not an

i thought of this because if OTM was put in the right order, we would have just seen tess use her mindwarp on Amy. maybe liz was separating the pictures to come up with who he was connected to, subconsciously thinking of amy and looking for connections with tess. she says she feels deep down alex's death was not an accident, but she can't think of who would kill him or how.

also, in the scene she keeps remebering alex's dance in surprise. maybe they used this footage because it showed a funny alex moment, or maybe...because this is the time when tess has been "kidnapped" by witaker and she uses her power to contact isabel and basically hand her over to the skins.

this may be entirely incoherent, sorry.

i thought of this because if OTM was put in the right order, we would have just seen tess use her mindwarp on Amy. maybe liz was separating the pictures to come up with who he was connected to, subconsciously thinking of amy and looking for connections with tess. she says she feels deep down alex's death was not an accident, but she can't think of who would kill him or how.

also, in the scene she keeps remebering alex's dance in surprise. maybe they used this footage because it showed a funny alex moment, or maybe...because this is the time when tess has been "kidnapped" by witaker and she uses her power to contact isabel and basically hand her over to the skins.

this may be entirely incoherent, sorry.

i thought of this because if OTM was put in the right order, we would have just seen tess use her mindwarp on Amy. maybe liz was separating the pictures to come up with who he was connected to, subconsciously thinking of amy and looking for connections with tess. she says she feels deep down alex's death was not an accident, but she can't think of who would kill him or how.

also, in the scene she keeps remebering alex's dance in surprise. maybe they used this footage because it showed a funny alex moment, or maybe...because this is the time when tess has been "kidnapped" by witaker and she uses her power to contact isabel and basically hand her over to the skins.

this may be entirely incoherent, sorry.

QFanny - I really like your idea about Liz protecting Max from Tess's mind control ability. I think you are on to something.
BTW - I think the infamous Tess "I could make him love me - but it wouldnt last" line is actually a bit of CUT dialouge from Destiny. And Tess says in the silverhandprint.com interview that her powers have been growing and growing...

Re: CW and Vilondra - well - I am a conspiricy theorist at heart and so I will say that I think CW and Tess were working together the whole time. As for the dupes - I have never thought they were actual podsters - I'd bet that they are whatever Tess is - mindwarping, mindraping, mindcontrolling, shapeshifting s

I have been thinking about the difference between being emmisarried and mind control. As early as Four Square - Isabel refers to being around Tess as feeling like she has "lost time". I believe Brody has had TWO alien experiences - being and emissary and mind control. I also believe OTM was 100% mind control - I dont think Larek was around at all and I dont think Larek's "memories" were being accessed. I admit - I am beginning to wonder if MITC was 100% mind control and no one was actually emissaried. Think about it - how could an "emmissary" use a human to check for the royal seal??? If Alex went to Las Cruces for months under mind control - isnt it possible that Brody went to NYC for three days totally under mind control as well??

Re: The Finale
Well - the Roswell creative staff have moved their offices to the UPN lot - they did so a few weeks ago. I dont think they are dealing with the WB at all - certianly not re-editing episodes. And alternate or "fake" versions are too expensive to film. JK has written most of the past episodes in the arc himself - and he has been telling a STORY. The story had an introduction (OTM) instigating incident (HOM), rising action (CYN, ITLAITB, BIY) and is about to reach its climax and denoument. This isnt a choose your own adventure with a bunch of alternate endings - this is JK's baby and it will have the ending he planned and has been planning ever since Tess Lies and Videotape. In fact - I think if you watched all the JK written episodes in sequence - it would be a very coherent and consistent storyline from the Pilot through Departure. The finale was always going to have a cliffhanger - renewal or not. The scenes in the promo are all legit. (Poor BOB ) I am very confident that the fact that they delayed/scrambled the tape feed doesnt have any "deep" meaning - they delayed the satellite feed for TSAP until a few hours before it actually aired and it aired exactaly as scripted.

Zero - I too dont like the question of what will happen to Tess in the finale. None of the options really appeal to me. I am sure that whatever the writers do will be done very well. I am VERY psyched about this episode! I cant WAIT. Dang it - I wanted that satellite feed!

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

QFanny - I really like your idea about Liz protecting Max from Tess's mind control ability. I think you are on to something.
BTW - I think the infamous Tess "I could make him love me - but it wouldnt last" line is actually a bit of CUT dialouge from Destiny. And Tess says in the silverhandprint.com interview that her powers have been growing and growing...

Re: CW and Vilondra - well - I am a conspiricy theorist at heart and so I will say that I think CW and Tess were working together the whole time. As for the dupes - I have never thought they were actual podsters - I'd bet that they are whatever Tess is - mindwarping, mindraping, mindcontrolling, shapeshifting s

I have been thinking about the difference between being emmisarried and mind control. As early as Four Square - Isabel refers to being around Tess as feeling like she has "lost time". I believe Brody has had TWO alien experiences - being and emissary and mind control. I also believe OTM was 100% mind control - I dont think Larek was around at all and I dont think Larek's "memories" were being accessed. I admit - I am beginning to wonder if MITC was 100% mind control and no one was actually emissaried. Think about it - how could an "emmissary" use a human to check for the royal seal??? If Alex went to Las Cruces for months under mind control - isnt it possible that Brody went to NYC for three days totally under mind control as well??

Re: The Finale
Well - the Roswell creative staff have moved their offices to the UPN lot - they did so a few weeks ago. I dont think they are dealing with the WB at all - certianly not re-editing episodes. And alternate or "fake" versions are too expensive to film. JK has written most of the past episodes in the arc himself - and he has been telling a STORY. The story had an introduction (OTM) instigating incident (HOM), rising action (CYN, ITLAITB, BIY) and is about to reach its climax and denoument. This isnt a choose your own adventure with a bunch of alternate endings - this is JK's baby and it will have the ending he planned and has been planning ever since Tess Lies and Videotape. In fact - I think if you watched all the JK written episodes in sequence - it would be a very coherent and consistent storyline from the Pilot through Departure. The finale was always going to have a cliffhanger - renewal or not. The scenes in the promo are all legit. (Poor BOB ) I am very confident that the fact that they delayed/scrambled the tape feed doesnt have any "deep" meaning - they delayed the satellite feed for TSAP until a few hours before it actually aired and it aired exactaly as scripted.

Zero - I too dont like the question of what will happen to Tess in the finale. None of the options really appeal to me. I am sure that whatever the writers do will be done very well. I am VERY psyched about this episode! I cant WAIT. Dang it - I wanted that satellite feed!

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

QFanny - I really like your idea about Liz protecting Max from Tess's mind control ability. I think you are on to something.
BTW - I think the infamous Tess "I could make him love me - but it wouldnt last" line is actually a bit of CUT dialouge from Destiny. And Tess says in the silverhandprint.com interview that her powers have been growing and growing...

Re: CW and Vilondra - well - I am a conspiricy theorist at heart and so I will say that I think CW and Tess were working together the whole time. As for the dupes - I have never thought they were actual podsters - I'd bet that they are whatever Tess is - mindwarping, mindraping, mindcontrolling, shapeshifting s

I have been thinking about the difference between being emmisarried and mind control. As early as Four Square - Isabel refers to being around Tess as feeling like she has "lost time". I believe Brody has had TWO alien experiences - being and emissary and mind control. I also believe OTM was 100% mind control - I dont think Larek was around at all and I dont think Larek's "memories" were being accessed. I admit - I am beginning to wonder if MITC was 100% mind control and no one was actually emissaried. Think about it - how could an "emmissary" use a human to check for the royal seal??? If Alex went to Las Cruces for months under mind control - isnt it possible that Brody went to NYC for three days totally under mind control as well??

Re: The Finale
Well - the Roswell creative staff have moved their offices to the UPN lot - they did so a few weeks ago. I dont think they are dealing with the WB at all - certianly not re-editing episodes. And alternate or "fake" versions are too expensive to film. JK has written most of the past episodes in the arc himself - and he has been telling a STORY. The story had an introduction (OTM) instigating incident (HOM), rising action (CYN, ITLAITB, BIY) and is about to reach its climax and denoument. This isnt a choose your own adventure with a bunch of alternate endings - this is JK's baby and it will have the ending he planned and has been planning ever since Tess Lies and Videotape. In fact - I think if you watched all the JK written episodes in sequence - it would be a very coherent and consistent storyline from the Pilot through Departure. The finale was always going to have a cliffhanger - renewal or not. The scenes in the promo are all legit. (Poor BOB ) I am very confident that the fact that they delayed/scrambled the tape feed doesnt have any "deep" meaning - they delayed the satellite feed for TSAP until a few hours before it actually aired and it aired exactaly as scripted.

Zero - I too dont like the question of what will happen to Tess in the finale. None of the options really appeal to me. I am sure that whatever the writers do will be done very well. I am VERY psyched about this episode! I cant WAIT. Dang it - I wanted that satellite feed!

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

QFanny - I really like your idea about Liz protecting Max from Tess's mind control ability. I think you are on to something.
BTW - I think the infamous Tess "I could make him love me - but it wouldnt last" line is actually a bit of CUT dialouge from Destiny. And Tess says in the silverhandprint.com interview that her powers have been growing and growing...

Re: CW and Vilondra - well - I am a conspiricy theorist at heart and so I will say that I think CW and Tess were working together the whole time. As for the dupes - I have never thought they were actual podsters - I'd bet that they are whatever Tess is - mindwarping, mindraping, mindcontrolling, shapeshifting s

I have been thinking about the difference between being emmisarried and mind control. As early as Four Square - Isabel refers to being around Tess as feeling like she has "lost time". I believe Brody has had TWO alien experiences - being and emissary and mind control. I also believe OTM was 100% mind control - I dont think Larek was around at all and I dont think Larek's "memories" were being accessed. I admit - I am beginning to wonder if MITC was 100% mind control and no one was actually emissaried. Think about it - how could an "emmissary" use a human to check for the royal seal??? If Alex went to Las Cruces for months under mind control - isnt it possible that Brody went to NYC for three days totally under mind control as well??

Re: The Finale
Well - the Roswell creative staff have moved their offices to the UPN lot - they did so a few weeks ago. I dont think they are dealing with the WB at all - certianly not re-editing episodes. And alternate or "fake" versions are too expensive to film. JK has written most of the past episodes in the arc himself - and he has been telling a STORY. The story had an introduction (OTM) instigating incident (HOM), rising action (CYN, ITLAITB, BIY) and is about to reach its climax and denoument. This isnt a choose your own adventure with a bunch of alternate endings - this is JK's baby and it will have the ending he planned and has been planning ever since Tess Lies and Videotape. In fact - I think if you watched all the JK written episodes in sequence - it would be a very coherent and consistent storyline from the Pilot through Departure. The finale was always going to have a cliffhanger - renewal or not. The scenes in the promo are all legit. (Poor BOB ) I am very confident that the fact that they delayed/scrambled the tape feed doesnt have any "deep" meaning - they delayed the satellite feed for TSAP until a few hours before it actually aired and it aired exactaly as scripted.

Zero - I too dont like the question of what will happen to Tess in the finale. None of the options really appeal to me. I am sure that whatever the writers do will be done very well. I am VERY psyched about this episode! I cant WAIT. Dang it - I wanted that satellite feed!

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

Anyhoo, Thanks to CharlieGirl, Maxcedo has been able to add to the The Archives. Note the search engine link. Try searching for "King Arthur."
Sadly, like Maxcedo many pages are still lost.
But I found some interesting stuff like one of my old posts from when I was behrly out of Training pants: quote:originally posted last Summer
Possibly Max's Mom & Co. figured the exiles would stand a better chance of surviving among the earthlings if they were not so... well, alien in form. Also, as Rattlebox mentioned, it would take an awful long time in terms of human life for the mission to be accomplished, hence the need for procreation among the podsters, whose engineering no doubt would then have included future generations carrying the "essences." I would then suggest that when they return to Home Planet, the essences would be set free of the human bodies altogether [disclaimer here: this would be the Home planet agenda; I hope the script writers et al plan to use this as a mere obstacle to the greater purpose of Max & Liz's romance--though perhaps Max will impregnate Tess, but marry Liz and have other children, which would certainly tweak the plot in terms of heirs to the throne, etc.]. Someone (was it Loralei or someone in BehrAll's recent thread?) put forth the very logical idea that the podlings were originally intended to emerge as adults. Perhaps the protector role of Nasedo (and the other 3 aliens in his ship) was a plan B when the ship crashed and M,I,M (and T?) were born premature at age 6.

One other thought: Perhaps RD has learned to shapeshift--like the Sorcerer's Apprentice/Teachings of Don Juan--and needs the Tic Tacs when he does it (hmmm...ginseng flavored Tic Tacs? ew. No, Tabasco flavored--shudder.) Nasedo may have apprenticed RD to fill the gap for the 2 dead Protectors.Okay, I am sure I in no way gave that idea to the writers, and I in no way intended for it to happen. ***Sigh*** that's the way it always is with unplanned pregnancies. BTW, I don't think Tess will be evil because she's a pregnant teen, and I don't see Katims ever portraying a pregnant teen as evil.

George Bush is not an [/B]

Reggie - I think Nicko used his name at the summit, in which case Larek in Brody's body would have heard it, but you are right - I'm not totally sure about this, and I too would assume that Nicko would have had a different name on Antar/Twilo. BUT as you might remember, I have a huge issue of the use of VR to pull those visuals out of Brody's brain.

BTW - I agree that George Bush is not an , BUT George W IS an alien! (Couldn't resist again!)

Zero
I Shall Believe!
The Truth Is Out There!

OK...

First, I think you give liz WAY too much credit for calling this a so-called "hero Journey" thing. She's just being an indulgent, spoiled-brat. She didn't have to make this giant leap from accident to Alien murder.

Second, She has totally alienated the Pod Squad*no pun intended* max wants no part of her and finally realizes how wrong it was to involve her, instead of comming up with someother explination.

Third, she's a loose cannon that needs to be blown away. She only claimed aliens had a hand in it to begin with was because she knew max chose Tess over her.* NEGATIVE ATTENTION IS BETTER THAN NONE AT ALL!!!*

Fourth, she just totally lucked out that she did find something and that is her only redeeming quality.--LUCK

Lastly, ya'll are giving Tess way too much credit for having an evil side.

I think that the basic scenery is previous work by Brody on the computer; data entered already. The 6 virtual bodies were the next data to be entered, but then he remembered two faces. He recognised the second one (Max), but I don't recall that he identified Nikolas by name. Then BZZZT!

Actually I believe Brody did say Nicholas when he saw his face. IMO TPTB are just reintroducing those characters again (Lonnie, Rath, and Nicholas). My guess is that there will be something about them in tomorrow night's episode. I just watched MITC again TPTB definately leave it wide open at the end for devious to have just happened. The warehouse where Max finds Tess is the last place that we saw Nicholas in that episode. hmmmmm?

Good question. Well, let's see if the Board God even recognizes me. Earlier today you would have thought I was Tess and The Board God was Un-Mindwarped Max.

Okay, It does not remember me yet :::sob::: (Maybe Tess could help?)

Nevermind, Maxcedo is here and he's going to use his powers to get us in.

--shapeshifter

I am really confused at this point. I have read theories that the sex and baby are all mindwarp, theories that the sex was real but the baby is a mindwarp, theories that the sex was a mindwarp and the baby is some other aliens'(Khivar, Niko-btw do people realize how gross and pedophilistic that would be?) and finally theories that the sex and baby are both real. I can't see how they are going to pull this off though because they can't send all of the podsters home, it wouldn't be Roswell if they did! And I also can't see Max just ditching his kid either. If he did do that well...hmmmm...all I can say is no wonder they want to assasinate his sorry a$$. Plus, we already know that Khivar & Co. are just popping a squat on Antar waiting for the Podsters to show up so he can kill them. Maybe the whole Stepford Max routine was just to throw us. Maybe I am all mythed out

Oh yay! There is a tornado a'coming! I so love living in tornado alley! To take a header into the storm shelter or to not take a header into the storm shelter. That, my mything companions, is the question.

Val

Re: The Finale
Well - the Roswell creative staff have moved their offices to the UPN lot - they did so a few weeks ago. I dont think they are dealing with the WB at all - certianly not re-editing episodes. (...) I am VERY psyched about this episode! I cant WAIT. Dang it - I wanted that satellite feed!

Hmmm. Well...
I will stipulate that if Brody was completely under MW rather than being posessed, then that does leave things different. For one thing, it strongly suggests that the TAG was not activated, or that it did not work as stated. It seems reasonable that Brody couldn't be mindwarped while under the influence of an anti-Powers device.

If true, then Tess could have been participating in a Grand Plan with the mindwarper, to hoodwink Max. OTOH, she could be a victim, too: Brody's brain was "too full" because he was indeed being mindwarped, and the person responsable is also manipulating Tess (presently, or at the end of MitC). Or the whole thing could be run solely by the mindwarper, and Tess as fooled as anyone. (My best guess.)

But I don't think that she's the one actualy doing Brody's mindwarp, because using Powers takes some concentration. We see her doing other things, like holding a conversation with Max. She may be good, but she's not THAT good.

I truly believe that, as Brody/Larek was recounting proto-Max's meeting with proto-Tess, she was remembering the same occasion herself. She was hurt by Max's flat denial of her (again), even though she must know he doesn't accept it. And her tears when Max finally did accept that she was, once, special to him: they were tears of joy.

Re: The Finale
I'm also bummed that the satellite feed was scrambled, but kind of relieved too. If ( "if" ?!? ) anything interesting happened, how could I post now without it coloring my thoughts?

Anyway, STARBOX, since you seem to have an "in" with TPTB's activities, can you tell us, or ask, what will happen to the material on silverhandprint.com? I expect that The WB will not keep it up much longer.

Any webmasters out there? Is it possible to copy all the relevant files to our own storage? I'm thinking that anonymous FTP could be used: "xcopy silverhandprint.com/*.* C:/shp/*.* /s" or some such equivalent. We can read the files via web browser, so reading them to storage should be possible.

Anyway, am I the only one who didn't think that when Liz put her hand over Sean's--which was over his wound--that she may have slightly healed him? Maybe as a human the trithium abdification generator doesn't impair her abilities. If so, she could be even more important in the battle against the EA's (whoever they shall prove to be) than we ever imagined.

CosmicCandy, thanks for the visual support in our hour of need.

Mel and everyone else: about the "writer's" thread on Shiri's board. I got very annoyed and posted something really snarky (not something I do often, thank God!), and he PMd me. He's just a fan and an amateur writer who apparently knows some people who work on the show, and knows that they check out threads like that. So his ideas are no more valid than any of ours

Re: MITC. Larek introduces ALL of the alien reps, and everyone in the room recognized Nicholas when he came in.

I don't know if you guys are aware of this, but apparently Star2000Monkey was able to get an unscrambled feed and wrote her synopsis. Since the Spoilers board was down, there were people PMing it around at Cherishing. Sorry, I don't recall who b/c I don't want to see it but I thought I'd let you know that it is out there
~Tas

Also, last year the orb, with momentous secrets of its own, was found near (fictional) Highway 42.

See you later...I have to go practice my new trombone (Bach 42).

[/B]

Tas I unfortunately had the mispleasure of reading the synopsis (no offense to star). I'm not going to say anything else about it, because I haven't seen the episode yet with my own two eyes, but I look forward to commiserating with you guys tomorrow. As it turns out, our speculations are way more inventive then what we're going to be given in the SF.

And it finally ocurred to me -- our attention to detail is wasted on this show, because the writers are obviously not in the same head we are. Sigh.

Not feeling very positive right now, so I'll just sign off.

{~}:}

Anyone else starting to feel this way too?

I am not sure about all of the aliens but Tess can heal as well. She healed Max's face in Ask Not.

Anyone else starting to feel this way too?

I won't give away too much, but yeah, I would really lower my expectations if I were you. It will be interesting to see everyone's thoughts tomorrow night.

I noticed that we all keep on thinking that the dead will show up again one day. Don’t think that it has to do with sci-fi, probably we all are soap opera spoilt.
Elena

I just wanted to come back here and say that I have already seen Departure, and it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. It was actually a pretty good episode.

Still many unaswered questions and whatnot, and Liz's importance to the Alien Mythology has still not been cleared up (other than the obvious), but it was a good episode, all in all and sets up S3 quite nicely.

That's all I'm going to say until later, but I just want to leave you with this little tid bit....

Liz does save the day once again!

{~}:}

But sadly I have come to the conclusion that Liz will only be important to the Alien Mythology if JK ever decides to go that way, and sadly I dont think he has half the talent to come up with some of the excellent theories you guys come up with, so this is me ending my lurking days.

Thanks again, Chrissy

Boards have been wacked out all day! (Thanks Golder Boy, et al, for fixing it )

Met - I broke down and read Star's episode summary! (Bad Zero!) I had been so good about staying unspoiled. I will reserve comment until I actually see it, but then I get to let go - watch out Zero's mind has been churning for almost 24 hours now - it can be dangerous!

All I can say is - at least it is a BEAUTIFUL DAY in the Pac NW! Enough said!

Zero

I like my training pants.

Just kidding.

Later
Chicatron
Go Vols

All I can say is - at least it is a BEAUTIFUL DAY in the Pac NW! Enough said!

Zero

Zero I know, I broke down and read the synopsis the other day -- someone posted a link from my favorite board. Anyway, I was really upset until I saw the episode (I've seen it twice already) and then I wasn't upset.

My brain has been churning and I can't WAIT to talk to you guys about it. Episode airs in 15 minutes. See ya all back here in about an hour!

{~}:}

Everybody said that there was NO BABY!! and gosh that kept my hopes up...but there is..was..is..you get it. He shouldn't have a kid with T***! He should have one with Liz!!! DUH!! I hope UPN fixes this.

I told everybody all along that T*** was evil...and man! was I ever right!! SHE KILLED ALEX!!! I saw that finger drumming thing, but I didn't think it was important!! oh wow..wow wow wow. I have to rewatch it later, I have a big Algebra 2 test tomorrow at 6 AM...bah. Heh! Bye Mythers!!

~*~MEAGHAN~*~

t*** IS evil

Can you tell I don't like tess?

And who was it that figured it out? Liz of course!

Sorry, a little over excited.

Can I say it one more time...... no more tess, no more tess, no more tess!

RW

So that said, I'll go watch it again.

TTFN- see ya in a few

Okay, how could we have not picked up the tapping? I was jumping up and down and, like, screaming when they realized that and my sister just said, "shut up and let me watch the episode."

Although I'm still a bit upset that they did make Tess evil, the moment when Liz had that epiphany and when Kyle realized it too ... they were great moments.

When Kyle was talking to Tess and Alex showed up in the mirror...I almost jumped right out of my seat. I was breathing fast and fidgeting by the end of that scene!

I was kinda hoping that more of the truth about Liz and FMax would come out, but they have the beginning's of it and so I am satisfied.

I'm almost too excited to type right now, but I only have one more thought.

Zero, I know you said that if the Tex and subsequent baby were actually real you would be very upset. I agreed. I was hoping that the Tex would be a mindwarp. (When Liz said "I saved myself for you!" I almost died with just about every emotion possible.) And when, in the granolith chamber, it became apparent that all that was real, I was pretty crushed. But what really saved it for me (besides that scene between max and liz when he told her he was wrong about a lot of things) was when he said he had to save his son. For some reason I really thought that if it was all real and only tess went home ... he would let her. But he's not going to let her get away with his son and everything she did. Can you imagine if there had been no season three and that was our last line? I would have died. Luckily UPN saved us from the fate.

Anyway, I really think it's time for me to go now, check a few of the other boards, and read Loose Ends!

Oh, one more thought. It was never made clear if Tess had mindwarped Max and if she did, when she did it. Any evidence of Max-tapping since OTM? Just a thought.

Bye!

z.a.
*Dreamer, mythologist, candygirl*

I'm very disappointed that the baby is real and that next season will probably be about Max looking for his baby. I'm also disappointed that the FMax stuff didn't come out. I was also hoping the granilith would turn out to be more than what it was. I know that FMax said that it could be motified for time travel, perhaps more motifications can occur that will cause it to do other things.

Things I found interesting,

Right after Michael tells Maria that the reason she never got flashes when they kissed was because he was never open to her. Then a few scenes later Max and Liz kiss, but no flashes. And interesting that Tess did get flashes from him when they kissed. Could be a sign that at some point Max is closed down to Liz, but was now open to Tess due to the baby etc., And I guess the reason why Max wasn't opened to Liz is because a lot has happened between them and it's going to take a long time for them to rebuild to what they had, if they decide to rebuild.

Max giving Liz the pendant could have some significance, but what. I don't know at this point.

And what was the purpose of Tess mindwarping Alex?? To decipher the destiny book right. Why?? The only thing we learned about the destiny book was how to use the granilith. I'm sure if Tess would've went to the podsters and the humans (approaching the subject properly) they all could've pitched in to help decipher the book. What exactly was she trying to hide from Max?? If it was something in the book, I would think the podsters would have found it when reading the translation, unless Tess made sure certain parts of the translation where not put in the notebook.

And how did Tess mindwarp Alex for 2 months all the way from Roswell. That would be alot of frowning faces for 2 months??

And the deal that Nasedo made, why would Tess be safe back on Antar, but the others wouldn't be. Is Tess Khivar's sister or was she a skin in her previous life???

And what does Khivar want with Max's son?? Does he want to raise him to be the puppet King that he wanted Max to be and later use him against Max here on Earth.

Also I find it hard to believe now that the baby was sick. Notice after Kyle starts remembering what happened the night Alex died and Tess erased his memory, she get's no more attacks from the baby being sick. That whole baby being sick story I feel was all a ploy to get the others off the planet.

Anyways,
Loved Liz in this episode. I was disappointed with her going to Sean and almost taking things too far with him, but I'm glad she had the good sense to stop herself. That's our smart Liz, always thinking straight. And she figured out who killed Alex. She's definitely the one with the brains and intuition in this group.

I can't believe that after everything - Liz (Departure)

Neither can I Liz, Neither can I

Regarding Max and Liz - It would be a disaster if Max and Liz rushed back into a relationship. They have a lot of issues they need to work through before they could be together, plus I want to see the 'foreplay' building back up to a reunion. However, one thing I have to say is that I think JK is setting us up for a Liz/Sean/Max triangle of some sort. Why else would they show the scene with Liz and Sean, which was so out of place, disjointed and unecesary to have in this episode. If JK plans on going there, then I am going to have to hurl. The only obstacle that Max and Liz should have to get over in order to get back together now is themselves. NO MORE GODDAMN TRIANGLES!!

Questions that were raised by this episode.

- So, Nasedo made a deal 40 years ago. Does that mean he wasn't their 'protector'?
- Was Tess the true fourth podster?
- Was Vilandra really the one who betrayed her family on the home planet -- or was it Tess perhaps setting it up to look like it was Vilandra.
- How did Tess manage to mindwarp Alex for two months straight from far away?
- What does this mean for the dupes?
- I thought the Granolith was a religious icon...if it was really a one time travel device, why were the other leaders of the five planets so surprised that it was no longer with them?
- Why did Khivar want it back so badly, if he actually devised the plan with Nasedo/Tess to have her return home with the baby and the other three? Huh?
- Was it just me or did Liz's [human] blood cells from the pilot look different from those of Leanna?!?!?!?!

Liz's bloodcell slide from the pilot

There's a lot of space for interesting storytelling in season 3, as long as they stay away from the hackneyed triangle storylines. It's bad enough we're going to have the royal heir to deal with... speaking of which, how can Max possibly trust that Tess is telling the truth now? How can they trust anything they found out from Nasedo/Tess? Was the Destiny story even true? Or was it part of Khivar and Nacedo's master plan to return the royal 4 to them? Sorry...more questions.

In any case, I am really excited to see how this all plays out next season. And the best part -- it all starts again in August! Woo Hoo.

The acting in this episode was superb. I mean, the scene where Alex had his breakdown -- does it get any better than that?

Anyhow, I'm sure I'll be back later with more comments.... I've seen this episode 3x already and I really, really enjoyed it.

Yeah Roswell!!! We have a lot to mull over, mythers....

{~}:}

PLEASE - PLEASE could someone give me the play-by-play. I realize that you probably can't tell me EVERYTHING, but I NEED to know what happened! I'm dying!! PLEEEEEAAASEE!!!

Does anyone have a copy they could send me? I'll send you a tape - I'll send you $$ - I'll send you ANYTHING you want! PLEASE!!! Oh my gawd, I'm DYING - I'm SOOO upset right now.

PM me - or email me at stephbrisc@aol.com - PLEASE!!!!!!!

tess saying that kivar was their enemy and not hers, made me think that maybe tess is kivar's sister or race and that the marriage was not only "love" but a way to united the species. i wouldn't be surprised if it was really ava that was the betrayer and not villandra.

kivar taking over the care of the future alien baby, he could use it as leverage and tell the antarians that this is the future king and that zan really perished. so the antarians have no choice but follow kivar.
maybe the baby alien suffered some defects, being too long in the earth's atmosphere.. that the baby dies on antar and thus... tess' conniving was in vain. thus the pair of liz and max will eventually produce an heir that is more powerful.

... don't i wish.

OK, can one of you guys try and tell me how EOTW fits into this new scenario with Tess? I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around it. It just doesn't make any sense to me now.

If we are to truly believe that Tess's mission was to get pregnant and deliver the others home -- then why are we to believe that in the first timeline she would've given up so easily? Huh?

I really feel that EOTW in this context makes absolutely no sense. Do the writer's want to pretend like it didn't happen? Is *that* why they didn't have Liz tell Max about FM?

Oh please, if any of you have been able to make heads or tails of this, please explain it to me so that I can understand too?

I'm really struggling with this one...

{~}:}

Whhoooaaaaaa!!!!!!!
I am speachless about tonights eppi. I haven't had time to sort it all out.

Metaphysicalgrl- Just wanted to agree with you on one thing about how do we know that Tess is still not telling the truth.
Her telling Max that he wouldn't want to do that because of the baby. It sounds like another Tess excuse to me.....

I still think it is all a mind warp. the Tex, the Baby, everything. She didn't look too sure she wanted to leave by herself. Alone. I think she is going to be in big trouble when she returns home...No royal four, no baby, just Tess

Enough about that.
There is still hope for us mythers!!!
Liz saves the day once again

later
Chicatron
Go Vols

I do see Liz turning to Sean, in her darkest hour. Hey, he's at least friendly & well behaved! And her natural caution puts the brakes on before it gets too far.

Yo, Maria? You THAT stoopid? You give It to a guy, he scrams. Din'cha Mom teach ya nuthin'?

Of course, Liz does save the day, but whose lame idea was this "deal"? When Mr. Harding was killed, didn't that kinda kill the deal, too? How safe is Tess with Kivar? Not very.

Gotta think Tess has been mindwarped, too. By that little rat Nikolas in MitC, to think that there is a deal, and that she can keep Alex under (tlr Nikolas does that), and that she's better off with this unsecured deal than with the NM3. And what of Lonnie's "cards"?

So stupid.

Whhoooaaaaaa!!!!!!!
I am speachless about tonights eppi. I haven't had time to sort it all out.

Metaphysicalgrl- Just wanted to agree with you on one thing about how do we know that Tess is still not telling the truth.
Her telling Max that he wouldn't want to do that because of the baby. It sounds like another Tess excuse to me.....

I still think it is all a mind warp. the Tex, the Baby, everything. She didn't look too sure she wanted to leave by herself. Alone. I think she is going to be in big trouble when she returns home...No royal four, no baby, just Tess

Enough about that.
There is still hope for us mythers!!!
Liz saves the day once again

later
Chicatron
Go Vols

I do see Liz turning to Sean, in her darkest hour. Hey, he's at least friendly & well behaved! And her natural caution puts the brakes on before it gets too far.

Yo, Maria? You THAT stoopid? You give It to a guy, he scrams. Din'cha Mom teach ya nuthin'?

Of course, Liz does save the day, but whose lame idea was this "deal"? When Mr. Harding was killed, didn't that kinda kill the deal, too? How safe is Tess with Kivar? Not very.

Gotta think Tess has been mindwarped, too. By that little rat Nikolas in MitC, to think that there is a deal, and that she can keep Alex under for two months (tlr Nikolas does that), and that she's better off with this unsecured deal than with the NM3. And what of Lonnie's "cards"?

So stupid.

I do see Liz turning to Sean, in her darkest hour. Hey, he's at least friendly & well behaved! And her natural caution puts the brakes on before it gets too far.

Yo, Maria? You THAT stoopid? You give It to a guy, he scrams. Din'cha Mom teach ya nuthin'?

Of course, Liz does save the day, but whose lame idea was this "deal"? When Mr. Harding was killed, didn't that kinda kill the deal, too? How safe is Tess with Kivar? Not very.

Gotta think Tess has been mindwarped, too. By that little rat Nikolas in MitC, to think that there is a deal, and that she can keep Alex under for two months (tlr Nikolas does that), and that she's better off with this unsecured deal than with the NM3. And what of Lonnie's "cards"?

So stupid.

What I didn't like -
*Tess is pregnant, the baby is real.
*And they make it look like there may be a love triangle with Sean/Liz/Max - PLEASE DON'T DO IT - we are so very tired of that.
*Liz and Sean scene - they could have done without that. Was that how they were trying to tell us how upset and brokenhearted Liz was? There certainly are better ways to get that message across.
*The Granolith is nothing more than a throw away space ship??? So what was the summit about and why was everyone so upset about the Granolith not being on Antar?
*Who exactly were the dupes?
*Was Tess the real Queen or was Ava?
*So who is Sean, nothing more than a juvie?
*Liz didn't tell Max about FMax.

Things I liked:
*Confirmation that the Mom-O-Gram was a mind-warp - when Kyle sees Alex the second time before Tess tries to erase it, Alex standing in the door reciting the Mom-O-Gram.
*Confirmation that Nesado and Tess were evil, and that they had the whole thing planned out - no surprise
*Confirmation that Tess really didn't care about max, she knew that once they got back to Antar he was dead. How scary that being could be that cold.
*Liz solved the mystery and realized the truth about Leanna and Tess. You go girl...
*Isabel's imaginary conversation with Alex.
*Michael's realizing that he had found home here on Earth.
*Michael's confession to Maria.
*Every scene with Max and Liz.
*Max realizing Liz didn't sleep with Kyle and his break down after she said good night.
*Max telling Liz how he had been wrong about a lot of things etc....
*Everyone's acting was fantastic in this ep..

There were a lot of questions raised.
*Does Tess really think that Khivar is not going to kill her once the child is born or is she his sister?
*Is Khivar planning to use the child as a puppet king as he was going to do with Max?
*Was Vilandra the traitor or was it Tess/Ava?
*What happened to the dupes?

See you guys later..Lots to think about, but we have season three coming up. Whaawwhhooooo

TTFN

What I didn't like -
*Tess is pregnant, the baby is real.
*And they make it look like there may be a love triangle with Sean/Liz/Max - PLEASE DON'T DO IT - we are so very tired of that.
*Liz and Sean scene - they could have done without that. Was that how they were trying to tell us how upset and brokenhearted Liz was? There certainly are better ways to get that message across.
*The Granolith is nothing more than a throw away space ship??? So what was the summit about and why was everyone so upset about the Granolith not being on Antar?
*Who exactly were the dupes?
*Was Tess the real Queen or was Ava?
*So who is Sean, nothing more than a juvie?
*Liz didn't tell Max about FMax.

Things I liked:
*Confirmation that the Mom-O-Gram was a mind-warp - when Kyle sees Alex the second time before Tess tries to erase it, Alex standing in the door reciting the Mom-O-Gram.
*Confirmation that Nesado and Tess were evil, and that they had the whole thing planned out - no surprise
*Confirmation that Tess really didn't care about max, she knew that once they got back to Antar he was dead. How scary that being could be that cold.
*Liz solved the mystery and realized the truth about Leanna and Tess. You go girl...
*Isabel's imaginary conversation with Alex.
*Michael's realizing that he had found home here on Earth.
*Michael's confession to Maria.
*Every scene with Max and Liz.
*Max realizing Liz didn't sleep with Kyle and his break down after she said good night.
*Max telling Liz how he had been wrong about a lot of things etc....
*Everyone's acting was fantastic in this ep..

There were a lot of questions raised.
*Does Tess really think that Khivar is not going to kill her once the child is born or is she his sister?
*Is Khivar planning to use the child as a puppet king as he was going to do with Max?
*Was Vilandra the traitor or was it Tess/Ava?
*What happened to the dupes?

See you guys later..Lots to think about, but we have season three coming up. Whaawwhhooooo

TTFN

What I didn't like -
*Tess is pregnant, the baby is real.
*And they make it look like there may be a love triangle with Sean/Liz/Max - PLEASE DON'T DO IT - we are so very tired of that.
*Liz and Sean scene - they could have done without that. Was that how they were trying to tell us how upset and brokenhearted Liz was? There certainly are better ways to get that message across.
*The Granolith is nothing more than a throw away space ship??? So what was the summit about and why was everyone so upset about the Granolith not being on Antar?
*Who exactly were the dupes?
*Was Tess the real Queen or was Ava?
*So who is Sean, nothing more than a juvie?
*Liz didn't tell Max about FMax.

Things I liked:
*Confirmation that the Mom-O-Gram was a mind-warp - when Kyle sees Alex the second time before Tess tries to erase it, Alex standing in the door reciting the Mom-O-Gram.
*Confirmation that Nesado and Tess were evil, and that they had the whole thing planned out - no surprise
*Confirmation that Tess really didn't care about max, she knew that once they got back to Antar he was dead. How scary that being could be that cold.
*Liz solved the mystery and realized the truth about Leanna and Tess. You go girl...
*Isabel's imaginary conversation with Alex.
*Michael's realizing that he had found home here on Earth.
*Michael's confession to Maria.
*Every scene with Max and Liz.
*Max realizing Liz didn't sleep with Kyle and his break down after she said good night.
*Max telling Liz how he had been wrong about a lot of things etc....
*Everyone's acting was fantastic in this ep..

There were a lot of questions raised.
*Does Tess really think that Khivar is not going to kill her once the child is born or is she his sister?
*Is Khivar planning to use the child as a puppet king as he was going to do with Max?
*Was Vilandra the traitor or was it Tess/Ava?
*What happened to the dupes?

See you guys later..Lots to think about, but we have season three coming up. Whaawwhhooooo

TTFN

What I didn't like -
*Tess is pregnant, the baby is real.
*And they make it look like there may be a love triangle with Sean/Liz/Max - PLEASE DON'T DO IT - we are so very tired of that.
*Liz and Sean scene - they could have done without that. Was that how they were trying to tell us how upset and brokenhearted Liz was? There certainly are better ways to get that message across.
*The Granolith is nothing more than a throw away space ship??? So what was the summit about and why was everyone so upset about the Granolith not being on Antar?
*Who exactly were the dupes?
*Was Tess the real Queen or was Ava?
*So who is Sean, nothing more than a juvie?
*Liz didn't tell Max about FMax.

Things I liked:
*Confirmation that the Mom-O-Gram was a mind-warp - when Kyle sees Alex the second time before Tess tries to erase it, Alex standing in the door reciting the Mom-O-Gram.
*Confirmation that Nesado and Tess were evil, and that they had the whole thing planned out - no surprise
*Confirmation that Tess really didn't care about max, she knew that once they got back to Antar he was dead. How scary that being could be that cold.
*Liz solved the mystery and realized the truth about Leanna and Tess. You go girl...
*Isabel's imaginary conversation with Alex.
*Michael's realizing that he had found home here on Earth.
*Michael's confession to Maria.
*Every scene with Max and Liz.
*Max realizing Liz didn't sleep with Kyle and his break down after she said good night.
*Max telling Liz how he had been wrong about a lot of things etc....
*Everyone's acting was fantastic in this ep..

There were a lot of questions raised.
*Does Tess really think that Khivar is not going to kill her once the child is born or is she his sister?
*Is Khivar planning to use the child as a puppet king as he was going to do with Max?
*Was Vilandra the traitor or was it Tess/Ava?
*What happened to the dupes?

See you guys later..Lots to think about, but we have season three coming up. Whaawwhhooooo

TTFN

Where is the story going now that Max will have a son? Yikes!

I, too, am confused about how EOTW fits in with all of this...why was it so imperative that the foursome stay intact?? Was their power being stronger have anything to do with the baby? The baby would've been 10 or 12 in EOTW, could Max's son be a significant part of their power? Therefore, Tess had to get pregnant and go through with this timeline? It seems apparent that Khivar wants the other three as well as the child, could it be possible that FM and FL figured that in order to fight the enemies, they need an ally, an ally that couldn't be easily killed off without the planet knowing about it (an Heir??) and...and...and..okay, I'm reaching! I think I'm trying to equate it to some aspects of the movie "Terminator."

I enjoyed the episode. Colin was really great in the losing his mind scene. Did anyone notice if Kyle did the finger drumming thing when they were all standing outside of the van, waiting for Max to heal Alex?

If Nacedo is not the protector, then WHO is???

Oy...I may not be able to stand it until
August!

mako

Im wonderin, exuse my biology if the alien genes are dominant or ressecive with max and T*** baby cos the genes can go three ways, full human , full alein or hybrid. what do u guy think?????///

PLEASE - [b]PLEASE could someone give me the play-by-play. I realize that you probably can't tell me EVERYTHING, but I NEED to know what happened! I'm dying!! PLEEEEEAAASEE!!! [/B]

Well...
Basicly, they Dallased most of this season, and a significant chunk of last season. Tess is "evil", and The Evil Plan was that Mr. Harding had struck a bargain with Kivar: he would return Tess, pregnant with Max's baby, in return for safe passage home.

So: the whole Skins arc- useless.
The Dupes- pointless
The EOTW- never mind
The Summit- why bother
The Alex thing- it's become the Hybrid Chronicles all over again.
River Dog, and the Cave Message- what, incriminating evidence left in writing?

The only thing left of this season that isn't made moot...
is the Hybrid Chronicles.
I'll be back after work to explain more.

I do see Liz turning to Sean, in her darkest hour. Hey, he's at least friendly & well behaved! And her natural caution puts the brakes on before it gets too far.

Yo, Maria? You THAT stoopid? You give It to a guy, he scrams. Din'cha Mom teach ya nuthin'?

Yo, Michael? You know you're leaving, but you gotta Do her before you go? Alex had the right idea. POW, right in the kisser... *******.

Of course, Liz does save the day, but whose lame idea was this "deal"? When Mr. Harding was murdered, didn't that kinda kill the deal, too? How safe is Tess with Kivar? Not very. "A special kind of stupid."

Gotta think Tess has been mindwarped, too. By that little rat Nikolas in MitC, to think that there is a deal, and that she can keep Alex under for two months (tlr Nikolas does that), and that she's better off with this unsecured deal than with the NM3. And what of Lonnie's "cards"?

So stupid.

I actually hope next season Liz steps back from Max and starts to date others. After all Max has put her through I don't think a strong, smart woman would go back to him with open arms. Since it wasn't a mind warp we know all of Max's abusive actions were really him. And I'm sorry but the writers created emotional abusive behavior in him. Actually I think it would be a powerful storyline to show a female lead as a self assured young woman who does what good for her and move on from a relationship. Some people have pointed that Max was under alot of stress and that was why he acted the way he did. Stresses are all around us and controlling that and anger is something Max doesn't do. So fans of the Liz character are suppose to except Max grabbing her arm, screaming at her and calling her names? In the real world we call that abuse and we try to get the person out of that relationship, that's all I want for Liz. Sorry I ranted but I hate for the writers of Roswell to diminish Liz to that of a pathetic girl going back to a boyfriend like that. Liz is very important to the Aliens, she might just be smart enough to save Earth and Antar.

Meta—ITA that the Liz/Sean scene was out of place. It was the worst way I could thing the writer’s could have thought up to get Liz to Maria’s house! Why not try and tell Maria what happened? And to have Max kiss Tess right after Liz? Yuck! BTW, no it’s not just you. Liz’s cells looked different than Leanna’s although maybe the microscope wasn’t as high powered as the one they used in Departure.

I think they need to have the real protector (aka Tictac) come out and reveal that Tess couldn’t really be pregnant (because hybrids can’t have children together) etc. Kill that storyline of a baby and kill any love triangle storyline. It’s really tired!

I can't believe that after everything....Liz

I'll have to force myself to watch the pilot again

//Ken

Right before Max slows down the jeep to tell Liz about Tess Liz should say:

“I took a blood sample from the room. We need to get to the biolab and put it under the microscope to make sure she’s human.”