Thread 47 is here

Note from shapeshifter here: quote: Threads 1, 3, and 36 - 43 are currently up at http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/index.html . Look for others as they are requested. I will probably remove a few and put up the ones currently under discussion on the board.
If anyone wants to donate unused Webspace to make more threads available at one time, contact shapeshifter at plum@ulink.net to get instructions.
And now, back to Zero's intro...Below is the Table of Contents to the Intro with links! Hopefully, this will continue to make this Thread accessible to everyone interested in Liz's importance to the Alien Mythology. The Intro includes summaries of all our past discussions through Cry Your Name, so is well worth reading if you are NEW to our thread! The Intro is in the process of being up-dated as you read this (almost done!!) I am currently trying to include the observations, clues and theories that have arisen from Heart of Mine, Cry Your Name, It’s Too Late & It’s Too Bad, Baby It’s You, Off The Menu and Departure (all of which have added to our belief in Liz’s strength, the Hero’s Journey she is on and importance of Liz to the aliens –whether they know and appreciate it or not! So, if you have read the Intro recently (since Thread #35), you don’t need to re-read it unless you want to be refreshed about a specific topic or check out the dates. The links make that much easier! (Thank you Shapeshifter!) I will post as soon as the revised Intro is posted! I’m trying something new this time – starring changes – so it is taking a bit more time, and if you know the length of the Intro – you can appreciate that up-dating it is a major undertaking! (Plus, REAL life keeps getting in the way of finishing it up! )

There is never a dull moment on this thread – especially recently! We appreciate the new episodes to digest – especially with the refocus on Liz’s importance to the storyline! (Thank you JK and RM! ) Even though Heart of Mine, Cry Your Name, It’s Too Late & It’s Too Bad, Baby It’s You, Off The Menu and Departure have many inducing scenes, we have been provided tons of stuff to chat about and dissect! !! Plus – we have seen so many newbies joining into the discussion - which is wonderful!

Feedback is always welcome! Just PM me.

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Background

Basic Thesis

Just a reminder - Our basic thesis is that LIZ IS AN IMPORTANT AND ESSENTIAL ELEMENT TO THE ALIEN MYTHOLOGY!

What is Subject for Discussion?

Liz's importance to the pod squad - and the survival of the human race for that matter - and theories concerning the beings - especially Max - and mysteries swirling around Liz - are what we discuss. So - feel free to join on in, or just lurk! And don't worry about going off on a tangent - they ALL tend to lead back to Liz's importance! (Especially lately!) We are an optimistic and friendly - though seriously anal retentive - group! So - dive in, and join the fun!! But remember – NO SPOILERS! We want everyone to feel welcome!

Liz is Important - The Liz/Max Connection

Consequence of the Connection - the Change?

Origin of the Connection - Where is Liz from, really?

Granolith - How does it fit in?

Destiny - Liz and Max!

Follow Your Heart

Symbolism - WE Do Not Ignore Anything!

Chakras

Einstein's Light Cone

Chariots of Fire - Liz's Necklace in VLV

The "Bride" - will the real one please stand up!

The Books - WHY Doesn't anyone read these things?

The Catalyst - Liz!

Vision Quest - How does Liz fit in?

Time Travel - "Run, Lola, Run"

Hero Journey - Liz's Path

I wanted to add that I believe the events of the last few episodes (especially, HOM, CYN and ITL&ITB, and some of OTM and Departure) play right into Liz’s Hero Journey!

Grandma Claudia - the first connection?

I just wanted to add here that many of us believe the fact that the necklace Liz wore to the Prom had been Grandma Claudia’s is VERY SIGNIFICANT! Finally, a tie into GC, her Native American connection and Season 1! Now – if we could only figure out “what” the necklace was! Maybe this was a foreshadowing that GC will be the connection to the aliens that we always thought she was/is! And the computer guys from the UNM commenting that the alien symbols look Native American in origin – with Michael getting Season 1 flashbacks – was GREAT! But – unfortunately, we are going to have to wait until Season 3 to see if this all plays out!

Lifebonds vs. Soulmates

Don’t let the current state of affairs (pun intended!) concern you – Liz and Max are soulmates and lifebond! The Truth Is Out There! And Liz will find it! (Even Maria agrees with that!) And though Liz did figure it all out in time to “save the day” for the Pod Squad – the question of whether Max’s actions irreparably damaged their connection is still hanging out there – and how will Liz deal with not only the revelation that Max had a relationship with Tess, but that there is a baby out there that is the product of that relationship? Talk about bad choices!

Sheila Hubble - Eerie resemblance to Liz! - What's the connection?

Venus - Liz's mythical connection to the stars!

Numbers - It all adds up to Liz and Max!

Numbers keep cropping up that seem to fall into our 2, 3, 4, 5 groupings. Like the bus that Liz misses is 33_5, the bowling alley lane is 32, Max remembers 3 moons, Alex’s funeral and the concert is on 5/5 and the song at the end of Cry Your Name mentions the number 3! In Morning After Kyle stands in front of classroom #305. Also, the truck driver had 1 drink, 3 hours before! There is no way that this is just a coincidence! I will try to add as many of the numbers caught to the Intro that I can – but let’s just say that there has to be a meaning to the reoccurrence of the numbers – especially 5! Liz’s cell number is 505-555-0125! (and as Qfanny so intelligently pointed out .125 =1/8th – Ummm…! In BIY – Iz runs “5 or 6” miles now? And “Ray” was seen by his roommate at 4 am, they were the only 2 people around and they were only 5 feet away from each other. Alex’s dorm at UNM was in “Quad 4.” In Departure, the number 67 is prominent in Kyle’s room – any reference to the fact that after Alex’s death, there were 7 Scooby’s, but with Tess’ betrayal, there were actually only 6 true members of the Scooby Gang?

Cave Map Symbols - All signs lead to Liz?

Skins - What lies below the surface?

We keep wondering where Nicko disappeared to – and Lonnie, Rath and Ava for that matter. Is it just a matter of time before Kivar shows up? Many of us thought that Tess was up to her “old” tricks of mindwarping – or mind control as Liz so aptly asked about – but was Tess acting alone? Most of us think not! Tess’ actions were the result of a deal Harding made with Kivar 40 years ago, but they also resulted in the death of Alex. But why did she feel she needed to warp Alex into deciphering the book? I still believe there is more to it because of the elaborateness of the deception! And, was the sex/baby real? All indications point to it, BUT the mind control and the power of illusion could play in it all be a hoax to convince the Pod Squad they had to go home, and Tess ultimate “card” to convince Max to let her go without being harmed.

Shapeshifters - Are there more than one?

Remember – Harding and Nasedo and Tic Tac are NOT all one and the same shapeshifter! I still believe that Tic Tac is out there watching over Liz!

Handholding - the symbol of the V constellation

Mythology!

Dates

Dates seem to be of extreme interest to those on this thread. So, follow the link to a rundown of dates as I've been able to gather them from episodes, official sites and factual research. If you find a date I’ve missed or see one that is wrong – PM me with the change and where you got your information! I’m always looking for new dates!

New dates added include:

6/21/1984 – Alex’s Birthdate listed on his grave stone (Departure)
1994 – Date the building in the Leanna and Alex picture was torn down (ITLITB)
11/25/2000 – Brody’s simulation takes him back to 1424 hours, MST on this date (Off the Menu)
12/9/2000 – Alex’s Departure for Sweden (ITLITB)
1/16/2001 – Date Leanna computer file/document created by Alex (ITLITB)
1/18/2001 – Date Alex and Leanna were supposed to be traveling to the Baltic Islands – where the mysterious building supposedly existed (ITLITB)
1/28/2001 – Alex’s Return from Sweden date (ITLITB)
4/27/2001 – Roswell Prom & Date Liz begins to start writing in her Journal again. (Heart of Mine)
4/29/2001 – Alex date of death listed on his grave stone (Departure)
5/3/2001 – Alex is killed. (Cry Your Name)
5/4/2001 – Kyle’s Birthday (18th?) (Cry Your Name)
5/5/2001 – Alex Whitman’s funeral (Cry Your Name)

In Summary

Finally, (I always have to add this - if anyone from the production staff, crew or UPN reads this or the Intro), WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LIZ/MAX CONNECTION IS CRITICAL TO THE SHOW, AND THAT TOGETHER MAX AND LIZ MAKE AN INCREDIBLE FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!! Even Ron Moore stated in the commentary for Ask Not that the "Max and Liz relationship is so strong and so central to the entire series!"

To have the opportunity for a Season 3 on UPN is WONDERFUL, and this show has the potential to be another “X-files” with intimate relationships IF done right! BUT PLEASE – Get rid of the “90210” storylines – if we want a soap opera, we will turn on “Days of Our Lives”!

A couple of general "rules" - NO SPOILERS (even asides about spoilers are not allowed – I can’t emphasize this enough as we move towards the season finale), but anything "aired" is subject to discussion, including coming attractions/preview and things on the Silverhandprint site. Pictures are welcome, as is deleted dialog from posted scripts of shows that have been aired and commentary by writers/producers. If you know what a preview “really means” due to spoilers, please DON’T tell us – let us speculate – we will find out soon enough! And discussion of the new book “Loose Ends” is now okay that the season is over – though you might hold some stuff back for those of us who still have to read it! Thanks!

As Alex - true and loyal friend to Liz whose life ended too soon - said - "Gripa det dagen" (seize the day)! Liz found the TRUTH, and will avenge his death! (Tess – beware – you have no idea what you have released in the B*#@h!)

Zero
I Shall Believe!!
FAN!

I just posted this on the Ask Not/Surprise Rewatch Discussion thread, but it seems very relevent here since it has to do with TEOTW and Liz and FL's decisions:

Notice the Kennedy hairstyle on Max in classroom in AN--just in case there's any chance that the viewer might miss the allusion. From the Ask Not transcript: quote:(In history class, Mr Lafeber is talking about the leadership skills of John F. Kennedy)

LAFEBER : What does it mean to be a leader? In the fall of 1962, John Kennedy was still a young man. The Soviets thought he was a pushover, and at that point most Americans would have agreed. And yet, John Kennedy would rise to the occasion, face down the Soviets, and bring the world back from the brink of nuclear war. Now, this week as we study the missile crisis in detail, I want you to think of John Kennedy, the man. Think what it would feel like to hold the fate of an entire nation in your hands. Imagine what it would be like to come face to face with the very real possibility that your next decision could literally mean the end of the world.

(Max arrives at the UFO Center.... Okay: "your next decision could literally mean the end of the world."
And what is Max's next decision? To not kill Brody. So, does this mean that Brody/Larek is somehow responsible for the end of the world? Recall that in OTM, he seems intimately acquainted with Tess and her "Design" (to quote the silverhandprint.com) on Max.

Wow I just clicked into this thread for the first time yesterday and I can't believe I've been missing all these discussions for all these months. I have alot of theories of my own, but I want to catch up on all the readings and summaries before I attempt to write them out.

I've checked out the signs and symbols thread a few times but never this one finding this thread is like finding a hidden treasure . I'll be back soon with some theories.

cosmicdream**

Shapeshifter--interesting little idea you got there about Brody/Larek--hmmmm--didn't notice that but it could be right-interesting!!! Love your fan art by the way!!!

TrueDreamer582-thanks for the response!
DreamerAtHeart--I do know what you are saying about Sean and Liz's instincts--and I know this would go against her intuitiveness if Sean were not good--but since when did this stop the writers from bending the rules LOL unfortunately!!!! I like Sean so far myself and hope he is a good guy too, but I just still have the jury out on that one.

Melodious--interesting I never noticed that SeanD was only missing one letter to make up the name NASEDO hmmmmmm

Nemo--where's your speculation, I am dying to see it LOL?

Hmmm... maybe he ditches the alien search, comes up with a design for a new form of A.I.... A.I. develops self awareness, initiates WWIII and computers take over the entire world? All because Max didn't kill him when he had the chance in AN. Ahem... yes, late night insanity.

Interesting thoughts shapeshifter. I'm still stuck on if there's any connection/significance to the BEM and Brody/Larek. All the flashes Max got in AN were tragic events as we all know. Two people getting shot, his torture in the WR... and then the BEM. I can't think there isn't significance to it... especially after we find out who Larek supposedly is (someone who seemingly knew Zan, and well - Zan seemingly had a lot of traitors close to him). I'm still wondering if Larek might possibly be Kivar or at least someone intimately involved in this whole conspiracy. The BEM was one of the dead Royals alien-past-life-Max remembered seeing just before *potentially* killing Brody? Someone Larek himself possibly killed?

It would indeed be a conundrum... if Larek was some kind of shady character... he did pick an excellent host to Emissary. Brody isn't particularly an "easy" person to kill if someone needed to off him imo. Unless you're some kind of cold-blooded killer of course, however, that's still an issue because Brody, even though he's not so much an "important" man - he's possibly one with some notareity, but definitely CONSIDERABLE wealth. If his loved ones even caught wind of the chance of foul play in his death, they'd have the resources to investigate almost indefinitely until they started learning things they *shouldn't*. Brody is also a really nice guy and a loving father, an innocent... also making him hard to kill. Had Max & crew killed Brody, it probably would have haunted them for the rest of their lives... even if Larek had shown his "true" colors from the getgo. Larek... a wolf in sheep's clothing? Literally.

I can't remember who brought this up in the past... maybe shapeshifter... If Larek is such a friend to the hybrids, why does he have that pentagon thing that can not only knock the wind out of the hybrids, but also deactivate their powers, rendering them helpless. Hmpf. Some friend. Unless the thing can take out Skins/other aliens too... but something tells me it doesn't. Humans are seemingly not effected. Possibly 100% aliens aren't effected either? Pure-bloods aren't effected, but hybrids are? They're the only ones that are (maybe it has something to do with the gandarium)?

Melodious

Ping, ITA about Sean. I'm of the opinion that Max will redeem himself by rescuing Liz from Sean when his true nature is revealed.

Here's my crazy theory about Max's son, hang on to your hats, because I'm more of an abstract thinker. ---> I've thought this since Departure . I have a theory the baby Tess is carrying is Max and Liz's. I think she(or they) used the technique that was used to create the podsters to combine Liz's DNA with Max's and had the developing fetus implanted in her. She mindwarped Max into believing the observatory sex happened. She's on her way back to Antar with Max's son ( which is Liz and Max's) . Of course there are alot of details to worked out on this theory. Getting the DNA samples wouldn't have been hard. And Tess could have a throng of accomplice aliens we haven't met yet that helped her with the science of it.

mmmmm that's just one of my theories. I'll try to back it up with some episode evidence.

cosmic

Here's my crazy theory about Max's son, hang on to your hats, because I'm more of an abstract thinker. ---> I've thought this since Departure . I have a theory the baby Tess is carrying is Max and Liz's. I think she(or they) used the technique that was used to create the podsters to combine Liz's DNA with Max's and had the developing fetus implanted in her. She mindwarped Max into believing the observatory sex happened. She's on her way back to Antar with Max's son ( which is Liz and Max's) . Of course there are alot of details to worked out on this theory. Getting the DNA samples wouldn't have been hard. And Tess could have a throng of accomplice aliens we haven't met yet that helped her with the science of it.

mmmmm that's just one of my theories. I'll try to back it up with some episode evidence.

cosmic

thats a cool theory.....very x filey

The last future doesn't exist anymore so their "powers" as stated in previous threads can be developed.

Hey Ping, good observations! I have thought about and discussed what you have mentioned on other threads! I have to say I agree here! It can be chalked up to some more poor writing, but Tess mindwarping only Amy and not Sean makes little if any sense to me. I hope the writers will make some mention of it, maybe in Season 3! Another thing that was of interest to some of us is how Tess entered to UFO Center. She didn't come down the stairs but around the corner! Aside from maybe stalking Max, is it possible she had anything to do with what happened with Brody?

As cool as I think a storyline involving Sean as a bad alien might be (afterall, it would account for some of the distraction on Liz staying away from Max, while Tess did her number on Max), I personally don't think the writers will do this! I could be wrong, but I got to thinking about the situation in OFF THE MENU! Sean really didn't witness anything alien so to say! As far as Amy and Sean were concerned, they were being held hostage by a crazy man screaming about aliens! The only reason Tess mindwarped Amy, is because she refused to lie about what Brody/Larek had done! Sean's silence was bought through a date with Liz. The writers can just explain this away as Sean did not witness anything alien first-hand, he got what he wanted which was a date with Liz, and he come out of it alive so he probably could have cared less what happened to Brody afterwards! If he presented a problem in the future, Tess probably would have taken care of it!

Lastly to Shapeshifter! I have to say I disagree with one of your statements. Max rescuing Liz from Sean(if he turned out bad) would be an honorable and heroic deed. And if he cares or loves Liz as much as we believe, it would be expected! But this does not redeem his actions! Yes, love may still exist for these two, but what is done is done! The relationship is forever tainted and will have to develop into a newer and different one. To me this is second best, and I as a viewer will never be happy with that. Besides a rescue attempt from evil aliens, is something I hope Max would do for Maria or kyle if they were in the same situation. In my opinion, rescue attempts have more to do with honor and duty, and little to do with restoring romantic love. It can be done because you love someone this way but it can also be done out of friendship!

Heather

I think that Sean is to Liz what Tess is to Max. Period.

They both always stood by Liz and Max, ready and willing to give a helping hand.

They both always gave seeming good advice to Liz and Max.

They both always belittle or had something negative to say about Liz and Max's other half.

They always brougth out negative points about each other's place in life; Sean telling Liz that she is suffocating...therefore she feels that way and Tess telling Max that everything is a dream, therefore he wants to "wake up".

They both came thru the back area of Liz and Max's work areas/home domains; Sean was in the pantry and wondered how he got there, but brushed it off & Tess came thru the back way of the UFO center, and brushed it off.

Toward the last few eppys, both Liz and Max took off on advice given by Tess and Sean.

Sean and Tess both appeared sweet but there is still something about them that you can't trust.

Both & don't trust neither Sean nor Tess, and they are the best freinds of Max and Liz.

Liz turned to Sean for comfort, because she was hurt by Max.

Max let Tess comfort him because he was hurt by Liz.

Neither Sean nor Tess knows about the real deal with EOTW.

Liz relies on Sean but doesn't really him.

Max "accepted" his destiny, felt there was nothing else he could do and accepted things with Tess, but he doesn't her either.

BOth Liz and Max used Tess and Sean for their "questionable skills"...mindwarping & B/Entry...seeming goods skills useful in a siutation.

Both Sean and Tess knows that Max and Liz love each other, but neither Sean nor Tess knows how deep that love between Max and Liz goes.

Sean was presented as "normal" guy, so Liz thinks it's okay to be with him.

Tess was presented as Max's "destiny" so she had to be with him.

My final thoughts...Sean and Tess are like Lucifer, he tells you everything you want to here and makes it sounds really good...he makes things sound like they are making sense and takes advantage of the times when you are at your lowest.

Sean and Tess BOTH ALWAYS SEEM TO POP UP when Max and Liz were separated and at their lowest.

shapeshifter, Thanks for sharing Starbox's gallery: http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/gallery.htm
It's very cool!
I have one thing to add...for now:
The top of the diamond looks very much like the "balance wheel" symbol.


Well, I guess they differ in number of spokes. But it still caught my attention.

Well, first off I think alot of us are forgetting that the writers are in control here. There is a choice in what is placed on television for the viewers to watch!

Secondly, I don't know about the rest of you but I think a better message for teenagers would have been abstinence! And if not that, at least the use of protection if u do decide to have sex!

And thirdly, I am a great displaced dreamer fan at the moment! So if this sex/baby are kept real, I say screw any adult relationship between Max/Liz in the future! Don't take me on a ride and show me the development of a pure and innocent love then out of nowhere throw a curveball that is irreparable. I don't care what anyone says! This relationship is tainted forever now. I say if he is such an "incredibally honorable, honorable guy" then let him do the "incredibally honorable honorable thing" and stay with Tess now that he has made a baby with her! Don't insult the relationship of Max/Liz any further. I would hate it if he was with Tess, but no more than I would if he was with Liz and this baby is real!

Just my rambling thoughts!!!!
PEACE OUT!

Heather

Also, you can think of it this way...

Max had a Devil-Snake- in his grasp....Tess.

And they were both aliens.

Now, Sean could be a Devil-Snake- too, but Liz doesn't know it yet, but maybe Max will???

Sean and Liz are human. They would play out the human version of Tess deception/Max, see???

I could even see Sean saying some kind of line to Max like, "Every enemy you got Max doens't always have to be !"

Can't you see that???

TVPOOHI totally agree with you...we are kinda in the minors with that logic but there are plenty of us that see that logic...I totally agree, I too was turned completely off with the kissy face scenes of Max and LIz, too much of them, I kinda think they got together way too soon, they should had build up to it more.

So

Ping - you raise a wonderful question! Though I currently really like Sean, and hope that he turns out - if involved at all - to be a good-guy protector (this would go with the belief that Liz can see the "evil within" and why she does not get negative vibes from Sean), I have always wondered about "Why Tess didn't seem threatened by Sean in OTM?" I know Amy was ranting about telling, etc., but Sean staying quiet only because Liz agreed to go out with him - assuming Tess even knew this - seemed lame. Also - if Tess knew about this agreement between L & S, did Max? And wouldn't he have said something about it? Oh - right - this was the start of Stepford Max!! All a bit too convenient, but then ... it could all be a not-too-well-thought-out CHAD, and nothing more given all the CHADS in S2!

Cosmis - Welcome! Hey - anything is possible, but TBH I don't like the baby thing in any form whatsoever! These are highschoolers - alien or not - and bringing a baby storyline into the picture just really bugs me no matter what or how or whose. I just hope it was all a mindwarp! A baby may make sense in say season 7 or so, but not now!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
FAN!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
FAN!

[/B]

Thanks for the welcome Zero. I kind of knew it wouldn't be a popular theory. I'm one of the few I guess that doesn't have a problem with the baby being real and feeling that M&L can still recapture the sweetness of their romance before Season 2 started.
Even if the baby is a mindwarp they can never totally go back to where they were ( to complete innocence) because of all they've experienced ( death, mayhem etc..) but I believe their soulmate love will carry them through all the hurt feelings and bring them back stronger and better thean ever, with an element of maturity beyond their years.

Tvpooh Thanks for bringing your post over, I agree with your observations about M&L dealing with the search for his son and how that will help evolve their relationship for the better.

cosmic

I just came by to read cosmicdream's baby theory. I have to say the writer's have been so all over the place, it could happen.

Of course, I wouldn't want the HH (don't want to bash Tess by spelling it out)to give birth to Liz and Max's precious child! The thought makes me want to

Since I don't have to time to read your thread (I tried to print it out once and it was 130 pages long!!!!!) I will just have to lurk once in awhile and just read the updated info.

Keep up the good work RBIers!

TVPOOH--I guess I have to disagree with you here cuz I LOVED SEXUAL HEALING-he!he! It was the most sensual, erotic, romantic, episode without actual sex that I have ever witnessed!!!! I loved it!!! And actually it was very SCIFI too, because I felt that Liz and Max were responding to their biological drives--the alien thing----Tess had to PLANT her crapola LOL!!! And yes I firmly believe she planted it too. But I of course am glad that they didn't do the deed because I don't think sex should have been introduced quite yet--ho ho!!!

I guess this is pretty silly but I like my SCIFI to be realistic and believable but as for my LOVE STORY I want the damn fantasy---LOL!!! That was what was so appealing to me about Liz and Max--they had a pure innocent love---and yes it is tainted by this ugly storyline--I was counting on the mindwarping, and I think there is heavy evidence in the episodes of mindwarping but I don't think I can drag myself through another ugly season waiting to find this out LOL!!!!

Cosmic - love your avatar BTW! I too don't expect Liz and Max to get back to exactly where they were in S1 - it would be impossible, and sometimes the journey is worth the hassles for the growth, etc. that occures, BUT (and this is a BIG BUT) I hate the extent to which the Max/Liz relationship has been jerked around and pushed to the background throughout S2 with only a glimmer of hope here and there. AND the Tex/Baby storyline is just not of interest to me at all! It might me to others - and more power to them. But for me, why I became obsessed with this show, was the entire Max/Liz relationship and the strong character of Liz, and of course, all that revolved around it. I too have hope! I believe that the relationship and show can be salvaged - I wouldn't waste my time here if I didn't - nor go to LA in August (a God-awful hot month in the Valley! ). There is definitely the potential and foundation for the redemption and the redevelopment of the Max/Liz relationship. BUT it all depends on how TPTB decide to go. People may stick around to follow the "quest for Spawn" - and I will probably stick around for awhile just to see what developes - maybe they will come up with some great twist (which we have provided lots of ideas for) that will recapture my imagination and keep me interested. Or maybe Liz will become center stage again, and the show will be worth watching just for that? BUT if it ends up like S2, with CHADS and inconsistencies - I doubt I will stick around for long. I just have better things to do with my time. I also doubt I will be sending any tobasco in again! So - I have hope! BUT ...

PS - Grace Kel - got your PM, just don't have time to respond - yet.

And Finally - My husband and I just stumbled on "Farscape" and now I want to find something that will give me the backstory. Anyone want to PM the quick version or a website I can link to that summarizes it? Thanks!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
FAN!

Zero That intro is something, it's going to take me a week to read it all.
OT I guess Farscape is my second obsession. This site www.farscapefantasy.com has summaries, pics and vid clips for all the eppies. I'm new to Farscape this season also so that helped me to catch up. Not too OT since Crichton and Aeryn Sun have alot in common with Max and Liz

cosmic

*click*

Since it was Brody that purchased the pentagon thingy then Larek might not know of its existence. I do, however, wonder about Larek's alliance. At this point, the jury is out on everyone, unless they are one of the scooby gang.

It's everything that Roswell isn't!

I just set up a website with a page summarizing my findings on the symbols and text of the Cave Map and the Destiny Book. Most of it was posted back on Thread 45 or 46. But I've revised it a bit and added some stuff.

http://www.geocities.com/asbrown74/CM-DB-2.htm

Let me know what you think. Thanks.

And thirdly, I am a great displaced dreamer fan at the moment! So if this sex/baby are kept real, I say screw any adult relationship between Max/Liz in the future! Don't take me on a ride and show me the development of a pure and innocent love then out of nowhere throw a curveball that is irreparable. I don't care what anyone says! This relationship is tainted forever now. I say if he is such an "incredibally honorable, honorable guy" then let him do the "incredibally honorable honorable thing" and stay with Tess now that he has made a baby with her! Don't insult the relationship of Max/Liz any further. I would hate it if he was with Tess, but no more than I would if he was with Liz and this baby is real!

Just my rambling thoughts!!!!
PEACE OUT!

Heather

Hi Heather!
I think your second point is good, and it seems the writers may have accomplished that through the whole baby-thing. I mean, who hasn't smacked their heads and thought 'duh, what happened to the condom in your wallet?'

And, for your third point, I think what you're saying is valid -- there can be no 'pure and innocent' love. But I think this is great in that now Liz and Max can develop a mature love; one where each has understanding and acceptance for the other despite their faults. True and mature love has no blinders on. It works with acceptance and a desire to face challenges together as well as a desire to grow together. And, I think that the situation between Max and Liz gives them an opportunity to do just that.

Admittedly, I am a "glass half full" kind of person.

Melodious

Hmmm. This is an interesting topic to bring up! I really don't know what to think about it. Does anybody remember if and how Brody explained how he aquired this pentagon? However, when Brody/Larek was holding the gang hostage in the UFO CENTER, I don't think it was Larek that held them hostage and deactivated the aliens' powers, persay!
Remember, Larek is not actually on earth and he only uses his body to communicate through.
Brody had his brain electrocuted which caused severe brain activity to go out of wack!! This allowed Brody to obtain access to parts of His brain only Larek was using to store information! I think Brody was in a very shocked and confused state of mind. He didn't understand how he was retaining human and alien memories at the same time!

But you did bring up an interesting question about Larek! Could he actually be evil and deceiving the PODSTERS? But we don't know for sure that the alien pentagon device is evil. Maybe it has a legitimate purpose in use on the aliens planet, like to keep order!Maybe the device fell into the wrong hands, that's all. Another interesting question, did Larek help lead Brody to find that pentagon device? Hmmmmmmmmmm.........

Heather

It's everything that Roswell isn't!

[/B][/QUOTE]

You are so right!
And, I must say, Ben Browder may be no Jason Behr, but he is a close second in my fantasies!

I feel like saying, "Yes! Yes it will."

Okay, so I'm a bit of a

Glad to know what I've made a name for myself as a fan.

Anyway, I've never seen Farscape or Stargate SG1 or any of the others.... I like Roswell. I like dangling threads, I like to ponder on how to fix things...

At anyrate - I just want to say, Liz is the coolest...

Okay, time to go to sleep. I'm feeling so loupy.

I'll see everyone later! PEACE EVERYONE!

Heather

Wheter it is true or not who knows? Or maybe he got it off of Harding or Nicholas.

DreamerAtHeart, Great Web site!

I'm of the opinion he is not what he seems. I just haven't decided if he's another alien (good or bad) yet.

What has concerned me most is the scene in the DeLuca's kitchen when he is attempting to repair the garbage disposal. Not once, but twice the camera angle did a close up on his hand physically switching the disposal switch on and off to see if it was working. Setting up multiple camera angles takes up precious filming time. The close ups of his fingers on the switch added nothing to the scene at all from the perspective of a guy trying to fix something. The director could have achieved the same result with a long shot of Sean standing at the sink and having him try the switch, which all could have been accomplished with a single camera shot.

The deliberate filming of this scene tells me that not everything is as it appears with Sean.

Also, Liz was baffled by what Sean used to "break in" to the bowling alley the first time. Liz, who is extremely observant of minor details about many things, would have seen what was in his hands to pry the lock open. I think he possibly used "powers" and the tool was a coverup.

There is more to Sean than meets the eye and I can't wait to find out how this storyline is going to evolve.

MUCH Shiri's Luva

Also a new one I picked up in BLIND DATE---the lead guitarist's name is NIKO(Nikolas maybe?) his guitar strap has the same pattern that was on Nikolas's bus---but also what I noticed was this band member NIKO had an F---(remmember the F's?) on his shirt--hmmmmm?????

If Sean is a good shapeshifter and/or protector, then there would be no "evil within" for Liz to find. We already know that the aliens have to be "open" in order for someone to "see" them. So Sean could be good or evil and just be choosing not to let Liz "see" him. I think Maxcedo was on a sadistic high and wanted Liz to see who he was. He wanted to be kissing Liz (a hot young babe) as himself and not under disguise.

Shapeshifter, I'm glad you like it.

was it time that liz knew who he really was?????? or she was meant to get the flashes by nesado for a different purpose

I've got Die Hard on FX in the backgroud and I just saw Mrs. Evans! Mary Ellen Trainor is a newscaster on the TV in the movie.

Roswell is EVERYWHERE!

Notice the V-formation of lights across Liz and Maria.

Roswell is EVERYWHERE!

If you watch Die Hard 2, I think you'll see
Valenti
Hubble
Atherton
(any others?)

Or, another possibilty for the Liz interest, he's the protector who just went on ahead and fell for Liz, who's just so dang irrestible, and well, isn't that gonna be awkward? Hehe. That's a funny theory. I don't buy it even a bit, but what a thought.

Special Agent—I noticed the use of all those camera angles while Shawn is flipping the switch too. But, this could be to emphasize that he is human????? Who knows?

Zero—hi! Glad to hear you are normal, like the rest of us! I don’t know many fans that don’t lead pretty busy lives! JK thinks we are “crazy” but we are just “detail-oriented” I’ll try to come around more often!

Have a great day!

PS….LIZ rules!

Remember when Dep Hanson called Sean a real zero---of course ZERO our thread host thought this was a message to her LOL--and it could be LOL---but I found 2 things, I forget which episode it was but there is a shirt hung up in Max's room that showed the 0 on it---so then we thing ZAN???? but then again my daughter said that in M2TM when Maxcedo and Liz pull up to that gas station--the gas meters all read ZEROS straight across.
But I don't like the idea that Liz's good intuition is not working when it comes to Sean if Sean turns out bad so, again I am totally confused as to which way they are going with him yet.

Alexis---yes we are sticklers for details---but aren't all SCIFI fans, I mean THEY should expect this don't you think? Consistency is very important to a quality show isn't it? LOL!!!!

iluvroswell, I did give you a theory in concerns to possibly why Liz didn't get flashes from Sean (who might be Nasedo) on one of the last Cherishing threads. If I can find it, I'll drag it over here

I think DreameratHeart's reason, however, is totally plausible too (and coincides somewhat to my Cherishing post), besides Sean possibly being a "good" shapeshifter. I still think he might be Nasedo, even though Liz hasn't gotten flashes from him (like she did when she kissed him in M2TM).

You're probably saying, "But Nasedo obviously wasn't a 'good' shapeshifter, due to the 'dark' flashes Liz received from in M2TM and the 'deal' he made 40 years ago...so Liz *should* [arguably] get 'dark' flashes from him again." Well I do have a spec which involves Nas STILL being a "good" protector (more or less), but he *still* made the deal (he made the deal ultimately to protect the podsters, particularly Max). Can't include that spec now unfortunately, the boss's bosses are here "inspecting", can't stay online too long.

Here's the theory I posted on Cherishing iluvroswell...
quote:Originally posted by Melodious1, Cherishing Max & Liz #190
I'm not sure if simply because Liz didn't get flashes from Sean, really proves he isn't Nasedo (or *a* Nasedo, although I'm convinced he's *the* Nasedo).

--Liz kissed Rath and we presume she didn't get any flashes (MTD). Or we didn't see them (I really don't think she did however, otherwise she'd have known that wasn't Michael and I don't think she knew until that confrontation in the UFO Center). Liz isn't "open" to Michael and Rath wasn't open to her. Hence, no flashes, imo.

--Liz kissed MAX (the one she's always gotten flashes from in the past and he from her) in DEP, and once again, no flashes. Or we didn't see them. Unfortunately, I don't think there was flashes on either of their parts). IMO, Liz was "protecting" herself from Max - he initiated the kiss, but Liz was closed herself off to him, hence Liz was blocking both directions of flashes, from him to her and from her to him. Putting up a mental wall per se, of course, I don't think she's *intentionally* doing this (unlike Mike did to Maria)... she's just been SO hurt by him. She doesn't want to let him in to see her and she doesn't want to "see him".

--We learn in DEP that because Michael never let Maria "see him" - he closed himself off to her - Maria never got any flashes.

I think there's a possibility that Liz was either SO closed off towards the end of the season (after EOTW - which I believe is the last time Liz got flashes in S2), that she was (unintentionally) *blocking* flashes... she was protecting herself, her heart. So, one could say when Liz kisses Sean, she's so closed off (or closed off to anyone but the man she really loves, despite how much it hurts her)... she's inadvertantly blocking any flashes she might receive and/or impeding her own ability to extract flashes (whatever her abilities consist of exactly) - to keep from getting her feelings hurt again by "letting someone" totally in (which I don't feel she's comfortable yet to do with Sean, despite her "breathing again" in HOM).

As DreameratHeart states above, and I confer:
Nasedo might have caught on (from either kiss in M2TM, particularly the second one, in the bus, before he shifts into a clown) that Liz is a human that GETS FLASHES. Liz knew Nasedo wasn't Max after she kissed him, "You're not Max." Which Maxedo confirms. So... Nasedo would arguably know Liz gets flashes (or there's at least something "special" about her, since she was able to tell the difference so decidedly). He knows this in part because he's known all along Max "changed" Liz when he healed her (explaining her "specialness", although I do believe she was special before the healing too ). If Sean is Seancedo... Seancedo can't risk exposure, so he blocks himself off from Liz.

It could also be a combo of both of the above. Liz is very closed off so she can't/won't receive/give flashes AND Seancedo is intentionally blocking them from her.

Melodious

Or, another possibilty for the Liz interest, he's the protector who just went on ahead and fell for Liz, who's just so dang irrestible, and well, isn't that gonna be awkward? Hehe. That's a funny theory. I don't buy it even a bit, but what a thought.

Ping - Your later theory is one of my favorite theories about Sean. That he is a good protector (maybe Tic Tac) who fell head over heals for Liz, but at the same time knows he has to protect her so that she can evolve into what she is "destined" (had to use that word) to be! It is very possible that Tic Tac was one of the 1947 ship mates but not "assigned" to the NM podsters. OR he could have been part of an earlier expedition that "harvested" human DNA - that got left behind for some reason. This could bring in the Grandma Claudia connection very easily depending on how long shapeshifters can live on Earth?? Anyway - I think this would be such a fun path for TPTB to go - could open lots of storylines, and brings in the complication of when the protector falls in love with the protected (think Arthurian legend, etc.). Also, Sean/Tic Tac might NOT have the Loyalty to Zan/Max due to the circumstances revolving around how he got to or was left on Earth; thus, the comments Sean makes about Max make have hidden connotations. Also, what would happen when the "real" Sean gets out of prison? Umm...? Okay - it is all too fun to speculate - however, I doubt TPTB go that way with it.

Zero
I Shall Believe!
FAN!

Zero

If you believe Sean might be a shapeshifter? You still think the real Sean Deluca is still alive? IMO, if the current Sean is a shapeshifter (and I do have a very strong feeling he might be, whether that be Nasedo, TicTac, whoever).... the real Sean is dead as a door nail by now (silver iron on somewhere on his bod). Probably buried somewhere near the Juvenile Correctional Facility he was locked up in.

Melodious

But I am trying to keep the faith for SEASON3!!!!

I hope Sean is good. But I also hope he backs off from Liz. Hey, is Sean old enough for Isabel to fall for him?

Where can I find these. I'd love to see them for my symbols collection.

Thanks.

Admittedly, I am a "glass half full" kind of person. [/B]

Charmiene I agree with this completely. The Season 1 relationship was beautiful but now it's heading for even more depth and bonding by weathering some major obstacles. I believe M&L will end up even closer than before if that's possible.

Unfortunately if Sean is a shapeshifter I've thought the same thing, that the real Sean is not alive anymore. Something I'd like to see back from the beginning of Season 1 would be less killing but I doubt that's going to happen.

I'm going to have to rewatch my tapes to watch Sean more closely. This Sean as protector theory is starting to perk my interest.
Ping That storyline with Sean would definitely be more interesting than the usual evil alien stuff.

Dreamer at Heart That was a great website. I was unaware of what some of the symbols meant.

Grace Kel I agree, I think the writers leave alot of stuff open-ended to give the storyline options as they go along. I've always thought since some of them peruse these boards that we the fans could influence the storytelling a bit.

cosmic

Thanks.

Come to think of it... I don't think ANY of the new characters introduced this season haven't had alterior motives of some kind (whether that was intentional or not on the characters parts). Not including ARCC per se because I don't know how much it can be included in the normal flow of the story (besides giving us a reminder how much Max truly depends on Liz), not including VLV or Sof47 (despite the intro of Hal Carver) either. Whitaker, Brody (aka Larek), Courtney, Nikolas, the Dupes, Grant Sorenson, Dan Lubetkin, the Duprees... and MOST were of the intentionally negative variety! And I'm NOT supposed to suspect "Maria's loser cousin" Sean Deluca?

No one likes Sean... but Liz. Making me think that he either is a very misunderstood juvi and Liz - all heart - is the only one giving him a chance besides his Aunt Amy. Although Amy being an adult and related to S, she might have liked him as a young boy, watched him grow up and has more of a pleasant nostalgia with Sean than anything, despite Sean being a delinquent and/or Seancedo (not that Amy would be able to tell Sean was of the alien variety). OR Sean(cedo) is specifically targetting Liz, that's why no one else seems to like him but her - everyone can *sense* something about him but Liz (he's doing a little mind voodoo on Miss Parker).

Do I believe Tess pulled off this whole "Alex-Sweden" scam alone? I do not. And Sean conveniently comes into the story when Alex returns. Sean, a "nice guy" (particularly nice to Liz), comes in and is often described as a "distraction" for L... while Tess is macking all over Max. There's a part of me that still wants to see Sean salvaged from this as ultimately someone who is really trying to help ... but I do think there is *more* than enough room to be REALLY suspicious of him.

Melodious

Yes, she saw into Nesedo, and yes, Max was usually very perceptive when it came to certain people but I think both Liz and Max needed to be conned in order to totally trust these people, it's simple.

Enough of that, key point, ? Is she in danger now, since her dupe has returned to Antar??? Is she no longer needed???? And will they find her collages?

Thanks.

Wasn't it Heatwave or I'm kinda thinking the Balance right???

The UFO Convention was actaully the first eppy in which Liz got a flash, not SH!

The UFO Convention was actaully the first eppy in which Liz got a flash, not SH!

I'm pretty sure - though a bit rusty having put my episodes away for the summer - that the V formation shows up first right after Max has broken up with Liz in the Balance. He starts to climb down the ladder, she stops him to kiss him "for memories" sake, and then she looks up into the sky when he leaves completely. I think the camera pans up into the nights' sky, and lo and behold we see the V constellation. Please - someone tell me if my memory is correct or failing me already!?!

Oh - and technically - the reverse connection in the Pilot is the first time Liz gets flashes, if we are counting Maria's flashes as such. I don't remember any flashes in UFO Convention, other than the flashes to Sheila Hubble - but maybe I'm forgetting. I thought the first other flashes were in Blind Date?? But I could be wrong about that. And then in Sexual Healing, the flashes came full force!

Real Sean Dead? Well - if Sean is a Bad shapeshifter, than I agree, the real Sean is probably six feet under somewhere in the desert - probably near Hank somewhere?? But if Sean is a Good shapeshifter, than the real Sean may just be doing time. Of course, Sean may be nothing but Sean ... So many possibilities, why, oh why with so many possibilities did they chose the path of Tex and search for Spawn!?! Oh well, I too am hoping for a great S3!

Oh - and thanks for the Farscape link. Have to get over to read up. A fun summer distraction!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
FAN!

For those who have read the Roswell High book, how do you all feel about Adam coming to the show?

~Sheri

HANAR:... Kathana attacks Kivar. Kivar attacks Sero. Sero attacks me.

So, there is war.War is allways politics in first hand.From Hanar speak we know how are relationships between 4 world only.
Khatana->Kivar->Sero->Hanar
but about position Larek's world we get 0 info.Good/bad....in the end of summit we get info directly from Larek
LAREK: You don't remember any of this, I'm sure, but...our families used to be very close. You and I practically grew up together. I was there at your father's funeral. At your coronation, your wedding. We were friends. And it was so painful to watch you fall, to see you trying so hard to make a better world for your people. And then to watch you have it all taken away by a man like Kivar...I told you you were trying to do too much too soon, that change takes time. But you wouldn't listen. You just kept...what's the point? It's all ancient history now. What a shame it is to see history repeat itself.
He was clearly disapointed in the past and now too.
There are skins (Kivar)and we see them.There are shapeshifters (from...world?).And there are Zan race (WHITAKER:...You belong with us, our race. We're in charge now. Your kind doesn't rule anymore.)
We are meeting 3 races but there are 5.
Are this 2 races allys/enemies/neutral?
Did they know about Liz?About her importance in Alien Myth? Skins didn't.Shapeshifters..?
What's the point?
There are so many possibilitis if writers want.....for agent Duff,Sean,Leanna(who not Leanna).Even for Marias father,Kyles mother,Hubble wife,River Dog and s.o.
We have only hope...big hope - Season3!
Sry.long post and pell-mell thoughts.

cosmic

I think your absolutly right ! They should listen to our ideas.

-------------
Dreamer
Candygirl

WE WANT ROSWELL ON VHS/DVD !

cosmic [/B]

Name Antar for Zan,Vilondra,Rath and Ava homeplanet is from Silverhandprint.com
Ava's diary.

...Remember when Dep Hanson called Sean a real zero...GK, you've inspired YAT (yet another theory)! ...or 2 or 3! :
First, according to Departure, Liz could only get flashes from touching an alien or clone if the alien was "open" (so what does that say about Maxcedo? Never mind, OT ).
Second, how does Sean know so much about what Liz is thinking? Is she inadvertantly giving him info when they kiss because she's open? Maybe he was healed by an Alien too? (After all, he is supposed to be Maria's cousin, not a total stranger).
And Third: When Deputy Hansen said Sean was a real Zero, I thought it was an allusion to this thread, but I never really thought about it. However, it could be a clue that the character of Sean is going to leave clues all over the place that only the Mythologists of this thread are likely to catch.
***OR**** it could be a reference to "Sero," the leader of one of the 5 planets--maybe Sean is another human cell phone?

But I'm not abandoning my initial suspicion that he got his Get Out Of Jail early pass from some leaders of the Monopoly.

Shapeshifter: Mel, I don't recall posting that, but I have definitely thought it. And who better for an evil alien to coopt for a human cell phone than a friend of the enemy? Talk about Trojan Horses.

Ping, ITA about Sean. I'm of the opinion that Max will redeem himself by rescuing Liz from Sean when his true nature is revealed.
Well, I think Brody has the alien thingie to protect him from other influences. Like Nikolas, for example. Can you imagine the problems he could cause if he could mindrape or control an Ambassador? They probably all have them... which is why we saw so many at the end of Season 1!

As for Sean: I think he'll be Liz's Rebound Guy. He'll probably be her First, to make a symmetry with Max & Tess. After that, he goes bad, or something (Tess uses him as a cellphone? ); and Max rescues Liz. Then, they can begin to patch things up...

Reggie - If we stay with the writing of S2, you are probably right, but ! I hate the thought - even though I really like Sean! I would like Sean to continue to be more like Adam from the books. Which reminds me - what did I think of Adam? I like the character. Thought he books were hardly in-depth character studies, the Adam character was interesting due to up-bringing, etc. and his relationship with the Liz of the books was endearing at times. I can't say more because I don't want to give anything away for those who have yet to read the books, but will now that MM is joining the writing staff. Do I think an Adam type character would work on Roswell the show - well, as I said before - I like to think of Sean as a type of Adam (who was not always "good" in the books), but an Adam would of course work IF DONE CORRECTLY! Therein lies the key - IF done correctly!

Night all - I'm going off-line for the rest of the night! I have been plodding through the Intro, and I'm about 2/3rds done! I will be done by the August party though - no matter what. Actually, I'm hoping to be done for Thread #50 - which I consider a milestone!!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
FAN!

Also when tess' car broke down and max kised her, we saw the flash of tess in the pod...I paused it and saw other images, like Max coming out of his pod, and then a flash of liz... her face was parralle to max coming out of his pod..what would tess have to do with liz. Maybe its here that it tells us that tess' destiny clashes with liz's

There's another symbols page at http://www.hometown.aol.com/bethalani/roswell.html . BTW, I posted the link to yours on the Signs & Symbols thread. I looked through it, but couldn't find the opening symbols screen caps. I looked through a lot of other stuff too...:::rats!::: I know I saw them somewhere! Reggie?

quote:Originally posted by Vihmakass:
Shapeshifter - where are you? I'm here! I just got back from a job interview with a high-tech library firm. What would they think if they knew how I spend my spare time?

It was the opening of the second season premere (S&B), according to Palomino. Dunno about screencaps. BTW, I got a new modem cable, so my usual computer is now usable again!

Sean as Tic Tac... Hmmm.. That brings out an entirely different meaning with this conversation....

Sean: You should call the police. Guerin's a pretty shady guy.

Liz: Look who's talking.

Sean: Me. I'm just misunderstood.

Pardon the paraphrasing there.

Okay, Nemo, I need your help on this. At the beginning of Disturbing Behavior, the camera pans up from the doors to the roof of the HiHo store. Look at the windows. Is it just me, or do those posters in the windows look like the four square symbol. Particularly since 2 of the posters (maybe three or more) say COPIES.... The next thing we see is Michael and Maria talking about Grandpa Dupree. There are two COPIES OF Grandpa Dupree, Michael and Rath.

Hmmm I just thought it was odd.

Now - I think that the writers really dropped the ball on some good ideas... Maybe a creative type will be able to incorporate them seamlessly into season three. The [i]blurry vision[/v] aliens - I have be wondering of they are not really aliens, but if they are possessed humans instead. Larek said that Brody's body has to be prepared. There must be a physical affect to the human subject. Just an idea on it, maybe Kivar has been possessing humans and watching from afar (or not so afar).... He does seem to be one step ahead.

Interesting that he would pay attention to Liz and Maria in WipeOut if so.... Maybe because they were still there that made them stand out.

Zero, You're right about the scene in Balance. The last screencap on crashdown.com of Balance is of the V-formation that Liz is looking up to. The V appears with the healing stones in the cave map before that scene, however. Maybe the cave map w/ stones is the first v-formation. That's pretty cool! So, Anyone, let me know if you catch a v-formation (explictly--not just in our backgound watching) that occurs before Balance.

shapeshifter, Thanks for sharing my site with the other thread. I'll have to check out the conversation there. Thanks also for directing me to that other site. It fits well with my theories and gave me some new direction too.

Let me know if anyone finds screencaps for those symbols "Roswell" morphs from in the S2 promos. Thanks.

Something else I noticed in ITLATTB--after Liz breaks into GC office, on their way out we see the letters PRINC---the rest being ipals office--but not shown---is Sean a PRINCE???? I also noticed in VLV Isabel tells Dave that the person who rented the suite was someone who is MORE LIKE A PRINCE(referring to Michael)

Michael called Maria a PRINCESS in 285S

Isabel has been referred to as QueenAmidala
Liz-Queen of HEarts
Tess--then that makes Tess the queen, by Max

just a couple of observations I made, have no idea what it could mean LOL!!!

GraceKel - I was just rewatching ITLITB (fastforwarding through some icky final scenes!) and never noticed the 'PRINC' - I hope that means something!

[b]GraceKel - I was just rewatching ITLITB (fastforwarding through some icky final scenes!) and never noticed the 'PRINC' - I hope that means something!

[/B]Emaleth, I know we discussed the Sean/Adam similarities 'in excruciating detail' on the Compare and Contrast: Analyzing the TV Show and Book Series - Part 2 thread, but I'm not sure which pages. You might want to click on the link to the thread, then click on the "Print Page" link at the bottom right of the screen to view the print version (puts all pages in one, takes a while to load if your connection is slow), then do and Edit/Find for "Sean" to see what we came up with. BTW, ALL LURKERS, POSTERS, AND MYTHOLOGISTS, this method can be used on all threads to find a topic.

GraceKel, re Sean as the Princ[e]: I know he's very likeable, but I'm still thinking that's a cover and that he's going to be a bad guy in the end. So I am thinking of "The Prince of Darkness" which is a name for Satan. If he was Maria's brother instead of cousin, I would wonder if their father was an alien. I read a young adult novel series in which there were 2 girl cousins who had the same father (he slept with sisters)--weird, I know, but not impossible. And after Tex, nothing would be too weird, I guess.

Sad, and disgusted.
Sad, because that means the professionals have run out of ideas before we did.
Disgusted, because that suggests they're going to try to use Book plots. Since the Books are set in a very different mythology, it will mean that Roswell-as-we-knew-it is going to be trashed.

I think I'm going to write UPN: "Hey! This isn't the show we begged for, that you bought because we'd watch it. You'd better check up on these folks..." Note my tagline!

Hey, everyone! What's up!
Just wanted to say to Shapeshifter, that I agree about Sean. I know he came across as the decent guy supporting Liz through her emotional turmoil, but I think there is something up with him. When I watch characters on shows, not only do I listen to their words and tone in speech, but I watch for facial expressions and body language. Not to say it was intentionally done through his acting, but I was picking up that while he was appearing supportive of Liz that he seemed a bit distanced at the same time. It was as if he were doing a job! That's not to say he's definitely an alien. Maybe and maybe not. Somehow, he could be connected or working possibly for Kivar in a way we aren't aware of yet!

Shapeshifter, personally I hope the show does not go down that freaky relationship path! But then again who knows on ROSWELL! Anyway, were not even sure from which side of the family Sean is a cousin from. So far we have only heard him refer to Aunt Amy. I know he has the last name Deluca and everything, but it's possible that Maria is carrying her mother's last name and not her father's. Because of a rise in pregnancies resulting from unwed parents, this happens alot now! I don't even remember being told that Maria's parents were ever married. And to me it's gonna be gross if they go down a path similar to story you were talking about!
I mean say Sean and Maria did have the same father and their mothers were sisters. Biologically speaking, it would be similar to having a full sibling because they would be brother/sister and cousins at the same time! (Whoa......!!!!!!!)

Heather

I think I'm going to write UPN: "Hey! This isn't the show we begged for, that you bought because we'd watch it. You'd better check up on these folks..."

Hey, I just read this posting and I was wondering why you felt the show is going to be trashed because of book plots?

I have heard of the book series that backed the idea for this show, but I haven't read any of them so I am unable to follow why you feel this way! You mentioned something about the books deriving from a different mythology. What do you mean and what is the different mythology?

Just curious to know! Because the last six episodes or so of Season 2 have not left me very enthusied or excited! A change for me is welcome! However if you could explain to me what the differences are and why you feel it will effect the show in a negative light I would appreciate it!!

Heather

You know - though I currently like Sean (due to the occasional smile he has brought to Liz's face and I like th actor DG) - I too bet they will turn him "bad" - either an FBI informant or connected to the bad aliens somehow. But I still like the "good protector falling for the protected" storyline even though I doubt that is where they are going with him.

BTW - Just reminding you all - speculate away, but try to stay clear of spoilers! Since there are none out right now, it is pretty easy, but we will probably be getting a lot in about a month. If you were spoiled last season, you know all too well what spoilers can do to your mental state - so if you have to speculate with spoilers included head over the spoiler boards. BUT if you want to continue to speculate based on what has been aired - go ahead. ONE BIG EXCEPTION TO THE NO SPOILER RULE - previews and interviews published for all to read are free to discuss - unless it is nothing but an episode summary. Hope that makes sense. We want to make sure all feel welcome here! Okay - "Mom" is leaving her soapbox now!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
FAN!

There is three kind of humans (by writers):
1)who know and who are good
2)who don't know and who are good

3)who know and who are bad (FBI)
The bad are "catch and kill them" type almost stupid folk.
There not eny smart,really clever and deep thinking person ( x-file- smoking men).
Bad are writen so sketchy.
If our characters dont have really strong/smart enemies the show lose so much!
And not only enemies from space - we humans are great enemies - maybe best in the Universe!

ok, Iam rambling here.Better I go and read what you writing.

Season 1 was great! I sure agree with u now!!! With a few exceptions, I don't know where Season 2 was suppose to be going!!!

MAYBE IF THE WRITERS DIDN'T FORGET WHAT STORY LINE THEY STARTED WITH, THERE WOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM!!!

Heather

I only have to say one thing about next season. If Tess's pregnancy by Max, turns out to be real next season. I am going to

<~~Someone's out of place here. Oh yeah, it's Tess.

Heidi

Someone on the WB board found it. It's a one-page "preview" of Roswell on the UPN site.

Here's the customer screencap Reggie made for me.

I see the four square symbol's echo in the posters here.

Arranged it says

copies - Pick 3
vacant - copies

The top right square does say copies, even if you can barely make out a couple of the letters.

I realize I'm probably making this up on the fly - but I really think that it's a nice touch considering Maria is trying to explain to Michael that he is Grandpa Dupree's copy at the same time. Sort of a visual and an auditorial lesson working together. And probably unintentional as well.

screencap courtesy of Reggie

shapeshifter - see how good I'm getting at using my own file space.....!

Well, I hope that there's nothing sinister about Sean (mainly because I'm such a MSCL nut that when I look at Devon G I can't stop seeing Brian Krakow!) - but if there is, I just hope the writers manage to do the storyline properly, so that's it's fully developed and makes sense. Of course, given what Roswell has become, that's probably asking too much!

I just have to say that it's unbelievable how many people are out there posting so many things about Roswell! People from all over the world! I have spent a little time browsing the FanFourm boards, the WB board, and this new one at Blu5.com. It's amazing! Roswell is just that compelling.

It's funny how I feel like this thread is "home" to me. So far this is where I've found the most interesting conversation and not just a bunch of "Who's the biggest Hottie?" and "What's your favorite quote?" Although, I do have to say those threads are fun to browse one in a while (JB and "It was you," by the way).

So thanks for all of the theories and ideas. I'm eager to read, share, and learn more.

Thanks.

Shapeshifter I don't know if that PRINC in ITLATTB meant anything or not but I make my observations and post them as for Sean having to have alien father or whatever, we now know that HUMANS can simply serve as EMISSARIES(puppets) for the aliens-we found that out in MITC and with Brody Davis. But as you know I think the writers leave things open-ended on purpose so they can take it in any direction they choose, Sean could be Nasedo, he could be Nikolas, he could have simply been let out to spy like you said, he could be KIVAR? He could simply be Liz's rebound boyfriend LOL--I don't know I simply post things I see and hope that maybe someone else can make sense of it.

Did anyone else notice the FOUR SQUARE symbol on Liz's balcony during OTM--who was present---Valenti, Liz, Isabel and Michael???
Strange huh?

Okay here is another thing I noticed LOL-I always notice something LOL--Sean was trying to unclog the garbage disposal with a broom--in ITLATTB he tells Liz I am going to do a SWEEP of the halls-----At the end of Wipeout---the podsters hear a noise and come around the corner to see a janitor sweeping the halls???? LOL!!!!

Since I just spent the last couple hours catching up with thread 47 and the rest of this thread, some of what i'm saying might be old, but you know me, I can't let it stay in my head.

This one goes back to the beginning of #47. When talking about Michael shapeshifting his finger in WR. I always thought that he didn't actually shapeshift, he just rearranged the molecules on his finger. Remember that all the podsters have the ability to manipulate molecular structre. That's what Michael did to his finger, in my way of thinking.

About the alternate timeline. I think it would be really interesting if they did a small arc on that other timeline. Kind of like how they had one episode in Buffy about an alternate universe which came back a few times. It would be really interesting if Liz somehow manages to get to that timeline or see that timeline because she's upset about her current situation. What she would have to see though, is that just because she and Max are together in that other timeline doesn't make it perfect. Okay, it makes it really really good, but there are reasons that the world ended in that timeline and it's not going to end on their current path.

About the Liz's flashes. I agree with Mel, and I know I posted something like this a while back. I think that because of EOTW and having to protect her secret and herself, Liz closed herself off in that way. We know because of Michael that it's possible. I think (I hope!) that as the hurts from season2 are healed and truths are reavealed that Liz will begin to open herself up and see the flashes again. I also think that this is one of her 'powers'. It goes along with her heightened intuition.

Um, I think I had more to say. Oh yeah, STILL on the fence about Sean. Gonna have to wait that one out. I would like to see something interesting happen with him though.

I'll post more when I have more to say!
It's good to be back!

z.a.
*dreamer*mythologist*candygirl*

Hey has it crossed anyone's mind now that Katherine H. cut her hair that we may very well be getting an Isabel going Lonnie on us this next season?

Qfanny, yes, I saw the 4 square symbolism on the copies. I was wondering if "copies" diagonally opposite "copies" could mean that Dupes had to mate with Clones for things to come out right?

I put up the 1st 2 pages of the Sci Fi of Morning After at http://ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology in hopes that it might stimulate discussion on the Season 1 General Discussion thread. I suspect TPTB might look at those threads if they're prowling the board since they're at the top and since it might be the obvious place to see what people think about what went down.

I haven't put up the Season 2's Discussion related archives, but probably will when they move on to the next ones.

Welcome back ITA, and I think that's what Rath & Lonnie did in MTD, too. They rearranged the surface molecules of their skin/hair (notice they were wearing M/I's clothes) so that their tattoos didn't show, etc. What Nasedo does is change his entire body mass, not just a surface rearrangement. Basically I'm saying that both sets of podsters can change their SKIN and HAIR, but that's about it--their internal structure, etc. remains intact.

As for Sean, I'm still on the fence mostly, but inclined to trust him.
~Tas

The color of hair is changing to darker, not blonde, judging from the recent photos, female wise, Roswell????

Way to go Liz!

DeeDee

ZeroAutumn, I rewatched Surprise today so I could post on the Season 2 General Discussion thread, and that's the ep with the Run Lola Run CD. It's interesting to wonder what would have happened if they had listened to Liz and not saved Tess.

I actually watched Run Lola Run today, so ITA that it would have been interesting to see what would've happened if they'd listened to Liz and not saved Tess (honestly, they should listen to Liz more! )

As for Sean, I'm still on the fence mostly, but inclined to trust him.
~Tas

While ITA that this is what is going on, the ability to "change molecular structure" is still a form of shapeshifting, meaning that the podsters will or are capable of a form of shapeshifting - it is all a matter of degree (and focusing!). I find this an interesting "power" that has yet to be explored! It was "raised" in White Room - and a bit with Lonnie and Rath with their hair, tattoos and clothes in Meet the Dupes - but then never explored further!! I just think it is something that we need to remember is "out there" as a possible "power" for the future - and that other aliens - other than the "Know" shapeshifters - could possess.

Off to work - but a BIG HI! to zeroautumn!!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
FAN!

and this is not just from wanda.. i read it on a news thing on roswell-high.com
SO SAD Bawl again!!

LOVE YA ALL ~ERIN~

Yeah! And hopefully without Junior tugging along at her side!!!!!!!!!! (Yuck!! )

SEE YA ALL LATER!!

Heather

I just finished reading some recent posts. So I wanted to comment on some stuff. The first thing had to do with the discussion on Micheal rearranging the structure of his fingerprint. Now, I don't recall which thread I read this on, but some people believe Micheal to be a different race of alien than the other three podsters (ex.- Max, Isabelle, + Tess). They believe Micheal use to be apart of the shape-shifting race because of what he did with his fingerprint in season #1. I don't believe this. Micheal did not change the shape of his body. He did nothing to his physical make-up. He only changed the out side molecular structure of his finger tip. And if everyone recalls in season #1, Liz asked Max what he was capable of (referring to powers he possess's). He told her they (Micheal, Isabelle, + himself) are able to "manipulate molecular structures". That's when he showed Liz an example by rearranging a nearby clay structure. Micheal did the exact same thing Max did with that clay structure. He just "manipulated" the way it looked on the out side.

Now another thing I wanted to comment on is Tess. I have read that Emilie De Ravin is no longer on Roswell either (just like Colin Hanks). Now I am a #1 Dreamer of Max and Liz being together, but you can't just throw away a character as important as Tess. If Emilie D.R. decided to leave on her own choice, then fine, get a knew actress to play the part. Tess is a very important character, especially after what has happened in season #2. She isn't dead. So we can't just never see her again, because the character who played the part of Tess is no longer on the show. I mean in my opinion, that's like us viewers keep on hearing about this evil alien Kivar who is in fact responsilbe for everything that has happened, but we never see him. Let's get real here, we better at least see the character of Tess once next season. Even if it is just for her death scene. (Oh, and I thought I should just add this in agian. Tess's pregnancy better be a "mind-warp")

- A couple other things that better happen next season:

We see the Dupes and Nikolas again (or at least know what happened to them).
What ever information the Destiny Book contained, it get's revealed to us viewers.
Kivar reveals himself.
Like I said above, no little junior Max running around on another planet.
And another gaps that are still not filled by our lovely writers of Roswell.

Heidi

I just finished reading some recent posts. So I wanted to comment on some stuff. The first thing had to do with the discussion on Micheal rearranging the structure of his fingerprint. Now, I don't recall which thread I read this on, but some people believe Micheal to be a different race of alien than the other three podsters (ex.- Max, Isabelle, + Tess). They believe Micheal use to be apart of the shape-shifting race because of what he did with his fingerprint in season #1. I don't believe this. Micheal did not change the shape of his body. He did nothing to his physical make-up. He only changed the out side molecular structure of his finger tip. And if everyone recalls in season #1, Liz asked Max what he was capable of (referring to powers he possess's). He told her they (Micheal, Isabelle, + himself) are able to "manipulate molecular structures". That's when he showed Liz an example by rearranging a nearby clay structure. Micheal did the exact same thing Max did with that clay structure. He just "manipulated" the way it looked on the out side.

Now another thing I wanted to comment on is Tess. I have read that Emilie De Ravin is no longer on Roswell either (just like Colin Hanks). Now I am a #1 Dreamer of Max and Liz being together, but you can't just throw away a character as important as Tess. If Emilie D.R. decided to leave on her own choice, then fine, get a knew actress to play the part. Tess is a very important character, especially after what has happened in season #2. She isn't dead. So we can't just never see her again, because the character who played the part of Tess is no longer on the show. I mean in my opinion, that's like us viewers keep on hearing about this evil alien Kivar who is in fact responsilbe for everything that has happened, but we never see him. Let's get real here, we better at least see the character of Tess once next season. Even if it is just for her death scene. (Oh, and I thought I should just add this in agian. Tess's pregnancy better be a "mind-warp")

- A couple other things that better happen next season:

We see the Dupes and Nikolas again (or at least know what happened to them).
What ever information the Destiny Book contained, it get's revealed to us viewers.
Kivar reveals himself.
Like I said above, no little junior Max running around on another planet.
And another gaps that are still not filled by our lovely writers of Roswell.

Heidi

About Emilie de Ravin: Reggie said they posted on her board that she signed for a number of eps next season (sorry, don't recall how many).

I am so mad right now. Ughh...I just typed a post for the last 30 minutes, and then it got erased.

Hey, now that I got that healthy spurt of energy out; like I was saying previously. I was reading a few posts above, and felt the need to express my opinion on some things. So bare with me.

On some previous posts, some people were discussing the matter of Micheal changing the "molecular structure" of his finger tip. See, now that's the key word "Molecular Structure". That's all he did. Now on another thread (unsure of which one though because I have been to so many) some people were discussing the matter of Micheal not being apart of the podsquad. That he is in fact a shape-shifter like Nacedo. NO! I don't think so. Now, maybe it's possible in his life on Antar, he was of a different alien race. But Micheal is just as part-humam as Max, Isabelle, + Tess. Micheal did not change the make-up of his whole body. He only "manipulated" the stucture of skin on his finger tip. Now in Season #1, Max told this to Liz in the first episode "Pilot". He told Liz that they (the aliens) are able to "manipulate molecular structures". Now Max showed Liz an example of this by changing the way that a nearby clay structure looked from the "outside". He didn't change the clay itself. Just the shape of it. The clay was still clay when he did this. Micheal did this same thing when changing his finger-print. He didn't change his overall makeup, just the way his finger-tip looked from the outside.

Another thing I wanted to comment on was Tess. Now I have read several articles stating that Emilie De Ravin is no longer on Roswell (just like Colin Hanks). Now if the actress Emilie D.R. decided to leave the show, then fine that's her business. But I feel the show can't just never show the character of Tess again. I feel she is to important of a character now. However, let me state this. I am a #1 Dreamer of Max and Liz being together. But Tess really spiced things up (even though, the pregnancy better be a mindwarp). If Emilie no longer wants to be on the show then fine. Just get another actress to play the role of Tess. We can't just never see her again. That would be like us viewers always hearing about this evil alien Kivar; who is responsible for everything that has happened (the death of the original royal four, the re-engineered royal four being sent to earth to survive, ect....), but we never get to see him. So you see my point? We have to see Tess at least one more time. Even if it is just for her death.

- Other things that we better see in season 3:

Tess's pregnancy being revealed as a mind-warp.

What other information did Destiny Book contain in it?

Kivar finally revealing himself.

Seeing the Dupes + Nikolas again, and where have they been.

Well, this is all I can think of right now!

Heidi

I just posted the same thing three times, and felt the need to say, Sorry!

You know I have always wanted for Sheila Hubble not to be dead. I had this dream that she turned out to be Serena, who had somehow gotten the real Sheila killed, but took on her form. And that in Season 3, we find out that Liz and Serena are sisters, since they both seem to be really brilliant.

I think that's a great theory on Sheila Hubble and Serina. They never explained to us why Nacedo (if it was him) killed Sheila. But it would explain it if Sheila was in fact Serina, because Nacedo obviously went bad if what Tess said in Departure is true about him making a deal with Kivar. So Nacedo would obviously want to get rid of the other protector of the podsters.

However, that would mean that if Sheila is in fact Serina. She can't be dead. Because Serina is supposedly a future friend of Liz. Well, that's what Future Max said at least. So will see.

Heidi

Whoa!
This was a rumor only! ITA that they've got to do something with Tess, since she's in the middle of so many tangled plotlines. But it's been widely reported that they dumped EdR pretty coldly, so her coming back is not assured by any means.

OTOH, I'm writing UPN suggesting that they check up on Roswell's production. "We promised", more or less, to watch it if they picked Roswell up. But IMHO, the next season is beginning to look like the Roswell version of Galactica 1980: a kids' show based on the original. That's not what I asked for, I won't watch that.

Of course I could be wrong! I often am! I sure hope so! But...

I heard the same thing. That the WB axed her just like Colin Hanks. So I wouldn't expect to see her either next season. However, the character of Tess, in my opinion, better not be gone for good. She is mixed up in too many plot lines alright. We have to see Tess again.

Heidi

I heard the same thing. That the WB axed her just like Colin Hanks.

NO. Not The WB. Jason Katims and the other producers. Give the devil his due...

--------
"What I tell you three times is true."
~The Bellman, in Lewis Carroll's The Hunting of the Snark [Fit 1, line 8]

- Thanks for the tip on editing down those posts.

Reggie,

- Sorry, that's what I meant when I heard that Emilie got "axed". That the producers cut her out.

Oh, and someone above commented on Colin just leaving. No, that wasn't the case. Colin Hanks had no idea his character was being cut from the show until the day they he recieved his script for "Cry Your Name". He was so upset, he went straight to the producer's to know why. That's why there hasn't been that many interviews with Colin Hanks. He had made a comment to person that he is too upset to even talk about it. The reason he was gone so much in season 2, is because he was filming that movie with Kristin Dunst (Sorry, forgot the name).

- Well, this is what I heard.

Heidi

Well, some ideas seem to be abandoned, like the 2-Nasedo theory. (Though maybe not totally ruled out.) Others now seem doubtful but maybe still open, such as the possibility of some hidden significance of Grandma Claudia. The seeming evidence that something was up with her was the first thing that made me take this thread seriously – I didn’t believe it at first, but when so many background clues that looked deliberate seemed to point to Grandma’s death being partly alien-related, I thought you all must be right – apparently there is something we don’t know yet about Liz or her family that somehow relates to the aliens, or else why would one of them bother about Grandma?

I have almost given up the idea that Tess might not be the real bride. But not quite, because I still wonder why the writers worked in Alex’s reference to the Cuckoo’s Nest.

A few things did work out. Last summer I predicted the story would involve time travel, and now it has. (Though not in the way I imagined; also it looks like I misread some of the clues, like Atherton’s calendar, or Max altering the Venus clock.) I construed the upside-down handprint on Liz in the Pilot not as blooper but as clue that the alien side of the story would involve higher dimensions (which allow left-right reversals). That seemed to be confirmed when we saw the same sort of thing more emphatically this year: check out Nasedo’s remains undergoing left-right reversals during the futile attempt at healing – the long bloodstain is first on one side of his face, then the other, then back. (Any chance of a pair of screencaps?) Although some called this another blooper, it’s hard for me to believe it wasn’t intentional. (Just for fun, notice also that he reverses about the time Max uses the word “reverse” and disintegrates just after Michael tells of the disintegration of the piece of skin he found in the desert.) Also in Wipe-Out we hear of something akin to multi-dimensions – time existing “in multiple subsets” into which the humans have disappeared.

I also suspected someone was hiding 3’s and 4’s in the musical key signatures, and in Las Vegas we got one more 4 when Maria asked Alex to accompany her in the key of E (4 sharps).

Over against these seeming successes, we have Liz’s dictum, from her fortune cookie at Señor Chow’s, that even a broken clock is right twice a day.

The biggest change in my thinking is that the story seems to be more improvised, with less of a long-term plan than I thought. As a fan of detective stories (esp. Dorothy L. Sayers), I thought the mysteries would have an solution that could (at least in retrospect) could be seen in clues from the beginning. Now I suspect many of the clues are more generic, less specific than I thought. Also, the big picture has grown so complicated I don’t try to deal with it much, I just wait and see. Meanwhile, I look for smaller connections.

Also, it looks as if coincidence may account for more of these supposed connections than I thought, especially in the number patterns. I told about finding lots of similar patterns on a trip to the beach. Next trip, a few days ago, we took a hike along a mountain river, and scores of trilliums were silently chanting 3, 3 while the dogwoods were answering 4, 4. So coincidence may be more common than I thought, but probably still not the explanation for everything. So the sport continues.

Just came back in to check and see what's been going on around here! Although, I did have a question. Has anyone on these threads speculated any deeper into what the SPECIAL UNIT was and how it was formed? I usually don't have the time to go back and read everything on the boards, so I was just wondering!

In the chance that it was let me tell you what I was thinking! If it was already speculated, that's OK too. The Special Unit was revealed as a branch formed from the FBI. Its purpose was designated to Alien hunting in Season 1. Does anyone else believe that maybe the Special Unit was designed and formed by the aliens (skins)?
Since the skins came to earth in 1950, it is possible they made their way into human goverment to gain power and control over what they needed to accomplish (aka...just like CongressWoman Whitaker). Perhaps the Special Unit was set up for the purpose of finding the ROYAL 4.

This brings me into the second half of my speculation. Its been rumored that a new character on the show will be Kivar! Maybe he'll be a lawyer and dating Isabel! Now there has also been alot of speculation about Sean Deluca. Some people believe his character is who he appears to be while others, including myself, believe suspicion lies around his character. Some people have speculated that maybe he cut a deal to get early probation and is working for the FBI!
Now lets say this is true! Maybe there is more to Liz like we've been hoping! If the a theory about a Lawyer/Kivar story is true, maybe this lawyer represented Sean Deluca. Perhaps he is the one who cut a deal for Sean and Sean is now working under cover with the Special Unit (by the way, I don't believe for one minute that the unit every shut down, only publicly). However, Sean may or may not know that he is actually working with the "BAD GUYS." If this is true, the suspicion surrounding him would most certainly heighten as to why he has gotten so close to Liz so fast!!!!

HMmmmmmmmm.......... Just some thought! What do the rest of you guys think?

Heather

Now, this is what I see play out with this eppy...many people say well since Tess left anyway, then this eppy was pointless...not so.

I think that the REAL reason why Tess left was not because she was heartbroken, but because she was PISSED!! Her plans to get Max could not come into full effect because he basically was "lifebonded" to Liz at that point, there was nothing she could do, and Max was so into Liz, he probabably didn't notice Tess

But Fliz and FMax thought Tess left because she was heartbroken, and because of how he might had treated her...but actually, Tess was just playing the role of the "heartbroken" girl, so she probably left in some hi-style dramatic way to make them think that she was so hurt.

The third point, FMax and FLiz also thought that because Tess was gone, they were weaker as a unit, so they needed Tess because the Skins came and defeated them, but what they didn't know is that Tess probably HELPED the Skins, she was in their group(sort of, kinda) and so she knew people's strenght's and weaknesses....so as a result the Skins invasion was stronger because Tess probably helped them, as opposed to Max thinking that they were made weaker!

See, my point is this, Tess was evil and her intentions were evil no matter what timeline she was in...Liz couldn't help that and neither her, Fmax, not Fliz knew this either...so in that timeline, she wasn't able to get Max so she join in the forces to kill him.

In this timeline, she still wasn't able to get Max to go back to Antar, but not only did she fail in delivering the The Pod Squad, but she made 6-7 new enemies that will be wanting for her to make her move with whoever...and know the fate of the "baby" is up in the air...

Of course, we don't know for sure if Tess helped, but as for her actions in Departure and her playing along as if she is the most loyal friend and faithful "wife" for Max, I have to believe this is how this is set up to look.

Once, Liz and Max realize that, they they will be able to work together, and get closer and stronger to defeat the enemy

Naw,Sean ain't what he seems, but at least he's not Liz's soulamte

Okay, I checked out the link for the Roswell preview tht UPN has...they keep saying 4 teenagers that "four teenagers on the
brink of adulthood share a
dangerous secret about the past
that will shape their future"...my question is, are they including Liz as the 4th teenager??? Because they have her listed at the TOPof the credits???

No Emille So far so good

MOre later

Whoa, there!

WHAT PART OF NO SPOILERS DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

There are those of us who do NOT want to know what's coming next. Frankly, I'm one of them.
Besides that, ALL the Roswell #1 board, AND this thread in particular, are clearly marked Spoiler Free! Speculation is one thing, like who will be on the show: they haven't filmed anything yet, so it's changable. Drawing conclusions from aired shows is fair game. But posting plot items which are definite is a no-no!

No Emilie So far so good

Hummm. Liz, Kyle, Maria... are they including Sean in that "four"?

And if EdR isn't on the show this coming season, you might as well forget about it. If the writers are that careless, the rest of the show will be unwatchable except as a young children's show. The Tabasco Senders will walk away, and Buffy's Watchers won't start. We like plots that make sense, from show to show, story arc to story arc, throughout the length of the show. Joss Wheadon does this consistantly with Buffy, and JK used to with Roswell... until about mid-2nd season.

Originally posted by Reggie:
Whoa, there!

WHAT PART OF NO SPOILERSDID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

There are those of us who do NOT want to know what's coming next. Frankly, I'm one of them. Besides that, ALL the Roswell #1 board, AND this thread in particular, are clearly marked Spoiler Free! Speculation is one thing, like who will be on the show: they haven't filmed anything yet, so it's changable. Drawing conclusions from aired shows is fair game. Thanks Reg, I didn't have time to comment.

GrhmLiz and others (including myself): It gets really dicey during the mid-to-late summer sorting the spoiler from the not. So lets all try to reread our posts to be sure they don't include I-heard-that-next-season stuff. And if we accidentally have had our virgin minds warped and then typed it onto the this board like Alex in Las Cruces, let's try to break free from that Warp (C'mon Mythers, We can do it!!) and edit our tainted post.
'kay?
And GrhmLz, I am still waiting to hear what your "name" means. It sounds like "Grim Liz," , but I suspect you meant something else.

I did want to tell you that I found that picture at the EVANS HOUSE--it is a long pic of heads (what type of heads-not sure--some type of animal?) both are in columns of fives--the first column the 3rd is WHITE and in the second column the 2nd is WHITE all the other heads are red. Which gives us our 32--Kyle football jersey number 32--Liz was bowling in lane 32 with Sean during HOM---so what do you think it means? Are they saying there is a switch of 3 and 2 or something else here?

And "cementing" Maria will no doubt cause a change, just not one related to Alien Powers. Something psychological, I'd expect. Not so... bubbly? I'm thinking.

Hey there,

I just wanted to let you know that GrhmLz stands for:

Grhm (our last name...Graham)
Lz (one of our favorite Roswell characters...Liz)

Heidi

My sequal to Departure:
Departure, Part 2

Rated PG-13 for horror. Don't forget to enjoy the B story!

Just read your sequal to Departure. I really liked the beginning of it. However, I kind of like the way that they had Tess turned against the pod-squad and had hidden intentions of her own. But I would really like to see them bring back Ava, and maybe write it in that the pods were switched and Ava belonged with the pods from Roswell. However, I also have thought of the possibility that Tess was being mind-warped herself, but in the since of someone with stronger powers helping her because her powers not being that strong, unless combined with the other three's power's together.

Well overall, I think your sequel was actually pretty clever.

Yes, I know that it can be argued that it is b/c that it was alien-alien instead of alien-human. But it might make Max question his memories and thus induce himself to break out of a mindwarp.

If someone already mentioned this, I am deeply sorry. I had no intentions for plagiarism.

VenusStar

My sequal to Departure:
Departure, Part 2

Rated PG-13 for horror. Don't forget to enjoy the B story!

Now I get the poem! I liked your script.
If only it would be that easy . . .

What's the "B Story"?

We know Liz still has to tell Max about FMax.
Did Michael and Maria ever tell anyone else about the Michael-Worshipping Skins?
Is the M&M "cementing" a "secret," just not public yet, or something that should be kept just between them?
Does everyone know about Isabel's alter-ego, Vilondra?

I thought I had another one, but I can't remember now. It just seems like they all need to have a major heart-to-heart.

Just came back in to check and see what's been going on around here! Although, I did have a question. Has anyone on these threads speculated any deeper into what the SPECIAL UNIT was and how it was formed? I usually don't have the time to go back and read everything on the boards, so I was just wondering!

In the chance that it was let me tell you what I was thinking! If it was already speculated, that's OK too. The Special Unit was revealed as a branch formed from the FBI. Its purpose was designated to Alien hunting in Season 1. Does anyone else believe that maybe the Special Unit was designed and formed by the aliens (skins)?
Since the skins came to earth in 1950, it is possible they made their way into human goverment to gain power and control over what they needed to accomplish (aka...just like CongressWoman Whitaker). Perhaps the Special Unit was set up for the purpose of finding the ROYAL 4.

This brings me into the second half of my speculation. Its been rumored that a new character on the show will be Kivar. That he will be a young lawyer dating Isabel and working in her father's Law Firm. Now there has also been alot of speculation about Sean Deluca. Some people believe his character is who he appears to be while others, including myself, believe suspicion lies around his character. Some people have speculated that maybe he cut a deal to get early probation and is working for the FBI!
Now lets say this is true! Maybe there is more to Liz like we've been hoping! If the rumor about the Lawyer/Kivar is true, maybe this lawyer represented Sean Deluca. Perhaps he is the one who cut a deal for Sean and Sean is now working under cover with the Special Unit (by the way, I don't believe for one minute that the unit every shut down, only publicly). However, Sean may or may not know that he is actually working with the "BAD GUYS." If this is true, the suspicion surrounding him would most certainly heighten as to why he has gotten so close to Liz so fast!!!!

HMmmmmmmmm.......... Just some thought! What do the rest of you guys think?

Heather

interesting theory......whitaker was very interested remember

Yes, I know that it can be argued that it is b/c that it was alien-alien instead of alien-human. But it might make Max question his memories and thus induce himself to break out of a mindwarp. ...[/B]And then, if Michael did some locker room bragging with Max, and IF Max weren't so Max-ish and honorable (which I'm glad he is) then he would want to experiment with a human girl.

And DreamerAtHeart, another secret: the audience is in the dark about Sean's past.

There is another transportation vehicle/time travel/destruction vehicle, I believe so.

Was Liz in the puzzle for the three pods to hopefully survive, got that right. Liz is important, look at this thread!

Oh,is the baby for real, in my opinion, not Max's.

DeeDee, more sci-fi, less soap opera.

Yes, I know that it can be argued that it is b/c that it was alien-alien instead of alien-human. But it might make Max question his memories and thus induce himself to break out of a mindwarp.

If someone already mentioned this, I am deeply sorry. I had no intentions for plagiarism.

VenusStar [/B]

VS - I don't think anyone else has thought of this, but even if they have, we have this saying "if more than one comes up with a theory or observation, it must be true!" So, if someone else noticed this or theorized about this, than you are just confirming it!

Nemo - excellent description of how you think things have changed and how you feel about it!

Reggie & Shapeshifter - Thanks for the reminder about Spoilers! It is tough at this time of year, and I figure I will be "spoiled" (not that there is anything really to be spoiled about right now) through the party in August, but then I go back to my unspoiled self! 'Cause I know what spoilers do to your brain - :eyespin: - right Reggie! But I'm an old hand at keeping my speculations and spoilers totally separate - and I'm pretty speculated out for the season. So, I'll just hang out (and work on the Intro when I have time) and read what others with more brain power seem to be coming up with.

You all have a great weekend!
Zero
I Shall Believe!
FAN!

By Alex leaving her clues, Liz knew that he was murdered, and by alien(s). Alex trusted her. He realized, that Liz, could figure out what had happened to him. My goodness, he had a lot of faith in her, and my girl, although through much pain, came thru.

There is talk about the ability of been responsible (growing), and talk about been faithful to whom, as a friend. Through Destiny and ETOW, Liz, came thru, and since the Pilot, Liz, has shown what love, really means.

Yes, there are more granoiths'(sp).

DeeDee

What's the "B Story"?

Well, it would be. I tried to keep a sense of rolling inevitability: they have to do A, so the consequences are B, so they have to deal with that; but in "episode" it said thus, so it leads them to C, which implies D, and so on...

The "B Story"? Reread, and watch Kyle. From his point of view, it's an entirely different story!

QueenAmidala01:
All the aliens have been asking for "The Granolyth". Not "a granolyth". It's a singular item, not one of many.

Zero said:
"Reggie & Shapeshifter - Thanks for the reminder about Spoilers! It is tough at this time of year, and I figure I will be "spoiled" (not that there is anything really to be spoiled about right now) through the party in August, but then I go back to my unspoiled self! 'Cause I know what spoilers do to your brain - - right Reggie! But I'm an old hand at keeping my speculations and spoilers totally separate - and I'm pretty speculated out for the season. So, I'll just hang out (and work on the Intro when I have time) and read what others with more brain power seem to be coming up with."

Hum. From what I've seen, I've been re-working my Public Service announcement on Spoilers, thus:

This is your Brain:
This is your Brain on spoilers:

Any questions?

A. Riverdog's reservation
B. Las Cruces Universtiy
C. Crashdown basement
D. Other

I'd vote "C", because if it ever took off again, it would destroy the Crashdown, and that would be interesting to see.
(Not that I want to see that happen anytime soon.)

Besides, we'd have to come up with all sorts of Liz importance theories as to how it got there in the first place!

Hiding in plain sight is the nature of the game. I suppose no one would expect there to be a real UFO at the UFO center huh....

- I hate to be the downer here, but I don't think that there is another Granolith. <~ However, it is possible ~> But I just don't feel there is.

- I was recently re-reading some transcripts from past episodes, and thought of some knew idea's. Well, not all are new, but I thought I would still point some out again:

In season #1 it was revealed that there were two surviving shapeshifter in the crash. They were both caught by the government, but one escaped. We have all believed that Nacedo was the one to es escape. What if he wasn't. What if he was the one they kept in captivitly for three years and experimented/studied/ and observed. Now this theory goes a little deeper, like I believe the Special Unit was formed by the skins and this is why eventually Nacedo made the deal (with Kivar, but through the skins ).

Now I know this one was mentioned before. But I have thought about it, and kind of think "not possible" now. The theory I'm talking about is the Destiny book being rearranged by Tess, or being fake altogether. At first I thought yeah, it's possible. But Tess wanted that book decoded for some reason, and didn't want the rest of the podster's to know about it. That's why she sent Alex off to decode the book in private. Now she obviously had to have heard something about that book and what it might have contained. And on top of that, she didn't want the podster's to know about it. There is something in that book that Tess didn't want the podster's to know. The question is...What? So I feel that the Destiny Book is real, but I feel the podster's may not have gotting all of the translation. Tess may have gotting rid of what ever she didn't want Max, Isabelle, and Micheal to know. This is what I think.

Is it possible that Grandmother Claudia contains the origianl Destiny Book?

- I will think of more later.

<~~Someone is out of place here. Oh yeah, it's Tess.

Heidi

Regarding the shapeshifters, we only know that there were at least two shapeshifters, there could have been others that we don't know about.

Regarding the shapeshifters, we only know that there were at least two shapeshifters, there could have been others that we don't know about.

- I don't think the Book itself was altered. I think the translation was altered. You see what I'm saying?

Heidi

(from BIY, crashdown.com)

Maybe the 3 + 1 in the lights was intentional (3 direct, 1 reflected – fits the common pattern where the 1 is a little different from the 3). Others have pointed out the Quad 4 on the sign. The main thing I still wondered about was the name Doña Ana. Did her life have some parallel with the story? Or is the sign there only to establish that Liz and Maria have arrived at the university in Las Cruces? (Could be, since this is the first scene on campus.)

Doña Ana is the name of the county (formed in 1851) that Las Cruces is in. The county is named after the village of Doña Ana (the original county seat) which goes back to Spanish Colonial times when this region was part of Mexico. But I couldn’t find anything about the person for whom the village was named. (Except that Don and Doña are Spanish titles of rank, something like Lord and Lady in Britain, I suppose). So I asked the reference librarian at my county library, and also inquired on this thread.

Shapeshifter soon wrote about a Doña Ana (I have forgotten the surname) in Spain who was a “natural daughter” of some prince, and served as leader of some agency related to the Church. For a possible story parallel, I was intrigued that she had royal connections, but sort of distant and hidden, while her distinction was due to her achievement, not just her birth.

But eventually my county librarian informed me that the Doña Ana in question was someone else. The following information was provided by Beverley Pirtle, president of the Doña Ana County Historical Society:

“The northern Mesilla Valley has borne the name “Doña Ana” for over 300 years, named, according to legend, for a Mexican woman of great charm and beauty who maintained a large and highly productive ranch in the Valley. The verifiable details of her life are lost, but there are as many colorful stories about her as there are story-tellers….” [quoted from “Doña Ana: Fact and Fiction” by Nancy Jenkins, Southern New Mexico Historical Review, Vol. IV, p.60.]

According to legend, this pioneering woman’s personality was as compelling as her history is elusive. It is said that she was not of the nobility, but that “The title, according to the custom of the times, was attached to her name only because she was a land owner….” Another legend is that “the fair Doña Ana was the daughter of a Spanish captain who had been captured by the Apaches and never seen again. The new town was named in her loving memory.” [from “The History of Doña Ana” from an article by Theron M. Trumbo in the New Mexico Magazine, October 1947.]

QueenAmidala01:
All the aliens have been asking for "The Granolyth". Not "a granolyth". It's a singular item, not one of many.

[/B]
CHILL REGGIE BOY ......I didnt know,

EVEN THEN, WE ONLY SEE ONE GRANOLITH ON EARTH WHAT ABOUT THE MANY OTHERS ON ANTAR?????
SO WOULDNT THE ONE WE SEE ON EARTH BE "A GRANOLITH" ANYWAYS????

I think you're right about the book being "unchangeable." I found the following in the crashdown.com transcript for The White Room:

ISABEL: I could do that. I’ve gotten through doors before.

NASEDO: That isn’t some deadbolt up there. That door is made up of depleted Uranium; a metal composed of heavy atoms, which we can’t manipulate.

ISABEL: We can’t.

NASEDO: You have many limitations.

Maybe the book is made of this "depleted Uranium."

Also, I had another thought about Tess and her mindwarping. Alex came back from "Sweeden" a "changed" man. He had a girlfriend, generally more confidence, and less interest in Isabel. Maybe Tess included this heightened confidence so that Alex would not be drawn to Isabel anymore. At least, it was one attempt to prevent a relationship between Iz and Alex so that Isabel would be less attached to Earth when the time came to go back to Antar w/ Tess et al.

Edited to add: Hey! I just found this new (since April) website: http://destinationroswell.com Well, it's new to me at least and it has a very extensive Roswell search engine. shapeshifter, under the "mythology" section I saw several links to your archives.

Would like to see that!

Either the real protector of the pod squad had the true version of the Destiny Book or there was no Destiny Book to begin with.

Everyone and everything is suspect at this point.

Characters, plots, writers, producers, networks, etc.

WHAT PART OF [b]NO SPOILERS DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

There are those of us who do NOT want to know what's coming next. Frankly, I'm one of them.
Besides that, ALL the Roswell #1 board, AND
this thread in particular, are clearly marked Spoiler Free! Speculation is one thing, like who will be on the show: they haven't filmed anything yet, so it's changable. Drawing conclusions from aired shows is fair game. But posting plot items which are definite is a no-no!

[/B]

First of all, REGGIE, DON'T GET NASTY WITH ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Second of all, I heard this RUMOR not SPOILER on these boards! So it was fair game to me! That is why it is a rumor and not a spoiler. There is no truth to it. It is merely speculation! I did not get this speculation off of any spoilers! I was simply using speculation to form a theory of my own regarding Sean's character who has already been introduced as a character of "Roswell." And Kivar, is no spoiler either! We all know he exists we just haven't seen him yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So if I want to speculate that Kivar will come on the show as a lawyer who represented Sean, I feel I have the right to do so! I already know from Season 2, that Sean has been in legal trouble!

By the way, people use their theories to speculate what they want to see in season 3 all the time on the boards! That's like telling everyone don't share your theories on this board just in case they happen!!

PS: I HAVE JUST GONE BACK TO MY POSTING AND REARRANGED SOME OF THE WORDING SINCE YOU AND SOME OTHERS OBVIOUSLY MISINTERPRETED AS A SPOILER!

IT WAS NOT A SPOILER! ONLY SPECULATION!

Im not sure if someone said, but my friend was talkin bout here bein a dupe Liz..b/c of her connection wit the pod squad. Im not sure bout that.

The connection can be wit her comin from thier planet or her just bein a human link they need. So im still unsure on wat i think.

(from BIY, crashdown.com)

...The main thing I still wondered about was the name Doña Ana...
...The following information was provided by Beverley Pirtle, president of the Doña Ana County Historical Society:

“The northern Mesilla Valley has borne the name “Doña Ana” for over 300 years, named, according to legend, for a Mexican woman of great charm and beauty who maintained a large and highly productive ranch in the Valley. The verifiable details of her life are lost, but there are as many colorful stories about her as there are story-tellers….” [quoted from “Doña Ana: Fact and Fiction” by Nancy Jenkins, Southern New Mexico Historical Review, Vol. IV, p.60.]

According to legend, this pioneering woman’s personality was as compelling as her history is elusive. It is said that she was not of the nobility, but that “The title, according to the custom of the times, was attached to her name only because she was a land owner….” Another legend is that “the fair Doña Ana was the daughter of a Spanish captain who had been captured by the Apaches and never seen again. The new town was named in her loving memory.” [from “The History of Doña Ana” from an article by Theron M. Trumbo in the New Mexico Magazine, October 1947.Nemo, that's awesome! It brings me back to the idea that all art (including Roswell) is never created in a vacuum--that there will inevitably be subtexts and meanings of which the creator may not have been aware, but which are legitimate nonetheless.

DreamerAtHeart, thanks for the link!

GrhmLz, It can be very difficult to tell the origins of some theories, and since there are folks who read the spoilers and then post here, it is highly likely that they will post some theory which has subconsciously been inspired by a spoiler. Then some of us, like Reggie, and, yes, me too, who have these really ultra sensitive spoiler sniffers just under our hyperthalimus glands (shapeshifter leans over for GrhmLiz to see...Kidding! ) get very excited when we smell the scent of spoiler. Actually, I too have inadvertently posted tainted theories in my day. Hopefully I edited them all out.

I may have missed the last thread but I've read all of this one. Dreameratheart, you've been very busy!

About Sean... many of you know my theory on Sean (closest to Reggie's of recent posts) so I won't rehash it. Scifi Mom, I like your new avatar. You go girl!

Vilkhaness (sp?) I loved your posts on the other beings, their names, and also your observations on three kinds of people. There's a lot of room for development in those areas.

Qfanny, I'm glad you're here. I wanted to run something past you. As I was quietly meditating on all our earlier posts, I kept thinking of your determination that EOTW is a mindwarp. People opposed your theory because many of us firmly believe Tess can't mind-warp Liz. However, we all agree Tess isn't working alone later so it would make sense that she wasn't alone at this point either. And Courtney says Nicholas has the same powers as the hybrids, with 1,000 more force. Can Nicholas mind-warp Liz?

What if Nicholas first dream-walked Max and Liz to get a really good idea of the depth of their relationship and how they interract? Then on that fateful day, he mindwarps Liz into believing in the visitation from FMax. (He would have to have known PMax's intentions about the concert tickets to pull this off.). It was before Alex goes to Sweden, so think of all the time Nicholas has at this point to explore! If Nicholas and Tess were working together on this project, I'm sure they were pleased with the outcome... until "that b%@#*h" got in the way and ruined everything.

Melodious, before I go I wanted to add that the other post that really stuck in my head was your observation that you can't change destiny, and in fact nothing changed between the two realities present and future. If EOTW is not a mindwarp then I'm convinced of the parallelism you identified. -HH (but not the way Avaspeaks uses HH!!!)

Came in to say goodnight! I'll see ya all later, BYE!!!!!!!!!!

PEACE EVERYONE

Heather

ISABEL: I could do that. I’ve gotten through doors before.

NASEDO: That isn’t some deadbolt up there. That door is made up of depleted Uranium; a metal composed of heavy atoms, which we can’t manipulate.

ISABEL: We can’t.

NASEDO: You have many limitations.

Maybe the book is made of this "depleted Uranium."

Dreameratheart:
Now, it's been a while since I took chemistry, so I am not completely sure about this, but I believe they can't manipulate uranium because it's a very heavy molecule. It's number is something like 235 (arg. where's a periodic table when you need one?) compared to some other metals which are under 100.

So if there was a whole book made of uranium I don't think they would be able to carry it around.

Of course, it could be an alien metal impervious to their powers or whatever.

Actually ... that's all I have to say tonight.

Later!

z.a.
*dreamer*mythologist*candygirl*

HH, which one of my EOTW specs are you referring? I haven't posted any on this thread. Was it one of the recent threads? I have so many EOTW theories I can't keep them straight

Melodious

was...nesado trying to protect the pod squad because he didnt trust topolsky or was he trying to keep the other orb from getting in the hands of the pod squad. ???????

I've been working on my website. Not too much so far, but I just added a gallery of images of the V-Formation: Click here .

You can also see my symbols analysis there.

Let me know what you think.
Thanks.

Mariposa

I'm SOOOOOO excited!!!!!

Mariposa

And I haven't checked but probably this has been mentioned here, so I'm sorry bout that, but this was my thought and I wanted to share it with ya'll. Was the sex real? NO. Is the baby? I think so, but it ain't Max's, since she totally didn't even have sex with him. I wholeheartedly believe that.

I have a question for you all, in Cry Your Name eppy, as Liz leaves the sheriffs house and is walking down the street--just b4 she leans over to vomit, I swear you can see someone following her---its so quick almost like a shadow--and you certainly cannot tell who it is, but I think I see this movement in the background that someone is watching or following Liz. Anyone else notice this? Or are my eyes deceiving me?

One more thing I noticed--that I never noticed b4 now--whether it means anything I don't know I just post my observations--in the episode 4Square when Michael comes to tell Max in his room about Pulrman(sp?) Ranch and Max says "close to the crash site?" and Michael says "it was the crash site!" behind Michael on the wall you can see NO (part of a bigger word but only NO featured)---does it mean anything, don't know for sure, just thought I would mention this.

No. There are many ships, but only one "The Queen Mary". "The Granolyth" makes sense only if it's a Proper Name: the name of the spaceship.

Ping:
So then I started thinking how CYN was a Stepford Max episode. And what is the Matrix about? Reality vs what we've been told is reality. Not quite mindwarping, but pretty dang close. Now why was the conversation there if not to tell us something? Why would they go through all that work for no apparent reason? Another clue to the mindwarp, perhaps??

Where's MY Max, dangit??

Where's MY Tess, dangit??
(Hey, maybe they've run off together, and left us with the bogus ones, in a bogus plot!)

Look, all the head-banging is exactly why I wrote a Part 2 to explain everything. I did the same thing, when I got disgusted enough with the S&B episode: writing a new version.

I've written a letter to UPN, expressing concern over the nonsensical "solution" to the murder mystery given in Departure. And suddenly throwing Tess to the wolves, the liklyhood of S3 being more juvenile, etc. I offered them the fans' help, if S3 tanks. Join me, write your own letter!

If JK came up with the Changed Liz, after "we" told him about it, maybe at the Party "we" should tell him Departure needs fixed, too! (I wish I could go... )

Here's one more thing I wanted to add to my Nicholas mind-warped Liz in EOTW theory:
Remember when Max goes out in Las Vegas and sees the wedding vision of himself with Liz? With my theory, that could have been the work of either Nicholas or Tess (they can both add and subtract memories, remember?). I believe at this point Tess already had Max pretty well in her power. A while ago I posted my observation that when Maria finished her song and Liz almost tells him something big, Max doesn't turn his head until Tess claps her hands right behind him as though at her command. Then it's as if Max has forgotten he was talking to Liz. His face goes blank and he turns from her. Very strange.

If Tess and Nicholas wanted to give Liz confirmation that FMax was real, what better way then to give PMax a vision of what "might have been" (or should I say "what WAS")? It would make Liz more certain that FMax was real, and that EOTW was real. I sincerely believe Max was already Stepford Max by this time, so I think they felt fairly secure giving Liz a second jolt of what "must be". When it's almost too much for her and she's on the verge of telling him, Stepford Max turns from her. HOM comes next and we all know the sequence after that.

I know you're pretty tired of thinking about EOTW, but this theory works, at least for me. I'll bet you at some point in S3, Nikko will say something facetiously to Liz that will suggest he orchestrated most of her S2 grief.

GraceKel, I'm a believer that if a hunch doesn't go away with time, it's real. I mean you've been convinced for ages there's more to the scene when Liz throws up than meets the eye. So I'm going to believe you. Someone of malevolent intent is probably watching her. Did you notice the shifty glance Tess throws Liz at the wake when she and Michael are at the buffet discussing what Maria can eat? If she's not working alone on this, then someone is probably following Liz's actions pretty closely. -HH

Regarding Max's "Tapping" or Not:
I agree that the tapping could just be a human reaction, but I think it's more of a signal that someone is about to "break out" of a mindwarp or minderase. Max never "broke out" of his--he was just told what happened to others. Unfortunately, I doubt that we'll get to see Max "realize" that the Tex and baby were fake or at least that Tess was MWing him pretty bad. But like to imagine an S3 primer with LIZ and Max doing some "memory retrieval exercises" and Max start tapping as he figures it out. That would probably be a good scene--especially if Liz also takes the opportunity (now that Max is seeing things "clearly") to tell him about FMax. I leave it to you fanfic writers (Reggie?) to work out the details.

Where was I? Oh, Max and "tapping." Max was definitely NOT himself during the last 5 eps. Anyway, Max was being "Stepford" Max, but there were a few solid moments where Max was "Normal" Max and moments where he was "Confused" Max.

I see CMax most clearly when he's at the trashcans. He KNOWS something is very, VERY wrong and his whole life is all mixed up and he just loses it. CMax also makes an appearance when he grabs Liz's arm. There is certainly recognition in Max at that moment that something is not right, but he just doesn't know what.

Normal Max is the one who tells Isabel that she is his "home." NMax also begins the goodbye conversation with Liz in the jeep, but I think CMax is the one crying. He had such a nice moment with Liz, he KNOWS that he loves her and she is his destiny but he still says goodbye--he's compelled to say "goodbye," but he KNOWS that is WRONG--Hence the appearance of CMax, complete with tears.

Well, I went off a little more than I intended (again). Feedback, anyone?

I was browsing through screencaps of CYN and I came across the scene where Max is crying about Alex's death underneath the bleachers with Tess. Someone (I forget who, sorry) commented that this was pretty out of character. Especially how he lets himself cry in front of Tess but then tries to hide it in front of his family and friends as they approach. Maybe this is another place where NMax was trying to break through, thereby revealing CMax, but then Tess quickly takes over and produces Stepford Max.

Poor Max.

I also have always thought that TESS is NOT working ALONE on this--who is it? Well Nicholas Nasedo, Lonnie, Rath? All of them are very good possibilities-we shall see.

I noticed a lot of people are now commenting on the way Max has acted sence "End of the World". I also have to admit that Max has really been.....what's the word to use.....out of balance since him and Liz have been apart. Now it is possible...well really possible that Max has been mind-warped by Tess. But one thing I can definitly say is that I believe she has really been messing with his emotions...his feelings. One minute he's mad, then he's confused, then he's sad. I mean he has acted like his emotions are on a remote and someone is controlling the buttons (hint..hint~> Tess). Well who knows what the writers are doing. Maybe Max is just on the verge of a nervous breakdown...compliments of Tess.

Heidi

I've been working on my website. Not too much so far, but I just added a gallery of images of the V-Formation: Click here .

You can also see my
symbols analysis there.

Let me know what you think.
Thanks.

Wow! Great set of established V formations in different scenes/eppies of Roswell. I love the one of Liz and Max holding hands to make the V formation.

A couple things I noticed from the V formation and closing scene of Departure. Michael and Maria do appear to stand together as one, maybe this is symbolic of them coming together completely.

Also (I'm sure many of you have already pointed this out) Liz is the closest to Max, with Iz just a little further back than her. Could this be symbolic of Liz being the Queen? Is that why they are standing that way, to somehow establish rank? It would go something like this according to the pic:

Max=King
Liz=Queen
Izzy=Princess
Michael + Maria= ??
Kyle=??

As you can see, I still question how the last 3 fit in exactly, look at me picking out what is fairly obvious!

TG

H A P P Y .. CA N A D A .. D A Y !

quote:Originally posted by roswelldiva:

*RD crawls in........*
I already sent GraceKel a sorry reply am I allowed back in without bashing? Welcome back! And if you feel yourself getting out of shape, just ask me to pass the TicTacs.

Just checking in after being MIA for a month, partly on purpose and partly due to work activities. I have tried to keep up with your posts and as usual find that you are a very awesome group of people.

I only have a short time so i am going to make some comments and then hopefully be back later.

Reggie your "Departure 2" 'box lunches' you are too funny....

I agree with those of you that there seems to be more to Sean than meets the eye. It just seemed strange that Tess didn't think it necessary to 'erase' his memory in OTM even if Liz did promise to go out with him. Just didn't fit, not even for Tess.

I think that JK and the writers weren't sure what to do given their situation with the WB. Their entire season with the WB was in question. Maybe now that they are at UPN and have a full 22 eps they will feel more confident about things and not soo rushed as they seemed to be in S2. If you recall, they originally were only allowed 13 eps until the WB decided to extend them and even then, they were continually given the shaft as far as things went. They did leave a lot open so they can go in any direction. Let's all hope for a better direction than S2.

I am going to go back and take a good look at some of the things that have been brought up; like someone following Liz and when did Stepford Max appear.

TTFN

It was you............................

Liz' thoughts were sad.
Isabel's were touching (and sad, in retrospect).
Maria's comments were very funny.
Tess's margin notes were quite creepy. Yikes!

WHY ISNT THERE A PICTURE OF MARIA NEXT TO MICHEAL WITH THE SAME QUOTE..OR GIRL MEETS BOY ???????????????????????????????

I am in CA too and just want to know if u r?

yep. Those are the 3 choices... and they often leave their options open... but you are SO right... it gives us a HELL of a time dealing with these clues and pot holes!
I wish they would just get their behrings straight and stick to it!!
What I hate is that they have all these loose clues and loose ends and they probably will NEVER address them... there are SO many things that could be done.. so many interesting, brilliant ideas that you guys have!!! But THEY don't think of them, do they?! I mean, this is their JOB! 12 hours a day! This is only our obsession!
ugh.

DreamerAtHeart: About Max crying in front of Tess... it was weird... but he was upset and he couldn't talk to Liz b/c she was no where in sight (to him) and he WAS getting closer to him Ok... that did almost make me sick... but I'm ok now. I could really use Tess to erase my memories of those last 5 episodes...
ANYWAY... when I watch that scene, I keep my eye on Tess.. I mean, she KILLED Alex and here is her supposed Destiny, crying and upset... and she barely reacts... she COMFORTS him. EVIL. just another example of it.
BUT i bet the writers hadn't decided who had killed Alex yet so....
AHHHHH...
It is just all so confusing.

But just like GraceKel said, they have evidence for many different scenerios... and not EVERY little detail means something! I mean, there can only be so much going on...

Anyway, this is only my 3rd or 4th time here! There is just too much to take in!! but I do enjoy giving my opinion now and then.

Ranelle

*******************************

quote:Originally posted by QueenAmidala01:
I WENT TO THE DUPE SCTION IN THE SILVERHANDPRINT SITE AND THERE WAS A POSTER OF THE ROYAL 4 IN THE 4 SQAURE....NEXT TO MAX THERE WAS LIZ WITH A QUOTE "BOY MEETS GIRL"

WHY ISNT THERE A PICTURE OF MARIA NEXT TO MICHEAL WITH THE SAME QUOTE..OR GIRL MEETS BOY ???????????????????????????????

I guess because it was when Max healed Liz that everything started? And maybe this is proof of Liz's importance?

No doubt about it, and there were only three (3) pods, WOW.

Anyways, my belief.

DeeDee

As I was reading, I see that many of you are still posting about Tess, a change in Max, and Mindwarping! Well, since we still seem to be on this topic I thought of a couple things I would like to share!

The first thought brought me back to the pilot episode! Most of us can agree that there was an instant connection between Max/Liz that started as children! My thought is connected to Nasedo/Tess! The shooting at the CrashDown is what ultimately brought Max and Liz together for good. But my question is, If Tess was Max's true destiny and it is so important that they be together as said in THE END OF THE WORLD, then why in the world did Nasedo wait until after Liz became a part of Max's life to introduce Tess! If Nasedo didn't want Liz to be an interference, he had all that time to bring Tess into the group before the shooting at the Crashdown that bonded Max/Liz together. We know from other episodes of Season 1, that the shapeshifter (as of now we are led to believe it was Nasedo) has been around in Roswell for some time! He was watching Max,Michael, and Isabel from the start of the Season.

My second thought is about Tess in the end of Season 2! Okay, I think most of us can admit we saw a change in Max as he got closer to Tess! Which of course implys he could have been mindwarped (only season 3 will let us find out if there is truth to this). This brings me to those one on one sessions she held with Max to help him retrieve his memories! My question is, why wouldn't she hold group sessions so that Max, Michael, and Isabel can retrieve their memories too? I don't know about the rest of you, but as a viewer I would think that Michael and Isabel would want to remember their past lives so they could avoid repeating past mistakes! I mean you have to wonder here! Isabel/Vilandra apparently had a past love affair with Kivar! Didn't any of them bother to think that retrieving her memories would help gain access to important information about their enemy Kivar? Hmmmmm... If these sessions don't point to the sole purpose of mindwarping I don't know what does!!!

Anyway just thought I'd share what I was thinking! Feel free to respond to what you may be thinking!

PEACE EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heather

thank.u I'm trying to catch up again .
gracekel :stubborness :lol;

I see soo many new turns on things I can't wait to read them all ...
Laters .

Well, now there's a theory! "Bogus plot". I that! It so is!

quote: Originally posted by DreamerAtHeart:
Tess's margin notes were quite creepy. Yikes!

ITA! I was reading that thinking, WHOA! Obsessed much? If I were Max, seeing that, run like the wind! Even if you're NOT Max, freaky!

About the under the bleachers crying scene, I regret to admit, I never noticed. I must rewatch it tomorrow.
And do you know what really got me about the vision in Vegas and the dance? Liz was obviously trying to tell him something, and he totally didn't even seem to notice. What was that? The real Max would be more like, 'hey, Liz, what is it?' But he didn't. And Tess was right there, clapping. Hmmmmm.

I was just reading something over RomeoJuliet, and just remembered how
in the beginning Romeo was head over heals for a woman named Rosalind. Well for one reason or another, Rosalind rejected Romeo.
This causes Romeo to be upset and melancholy. Well, in an effort to cheer-up Romeo, Mercutio (one of Romeo's buddies) encourages him to sneak into the Capulet party. It's there that he sees Juliet and falls in love with her.

Alright, so what does this have to do with Roswell?
Well, Tess is so adament that Max loved her in their past life. Max is even quoted as saying that the way he feels for Tess isn't the same kind of love for Liz. And we all know that Max knew Liz was the one for him at "first sight".

Is it possible that Zan(Max) in Antar loved Ava(Tess) at first but for one reason or another found himself questioning his feelings. Zan takes a break, and leaves for a short period. During this time he bumps into someone who realizes is his real love?
What if she was a Skin or from some other alien race?

It's been a long time since I've been in here, but.. was missing Roswell last night (the one thing I hate about the summer) and decided to rewatch some eppy's. Of course, HAD to watch the Pilot *swoon*. Just one thought.. anyone notice that in the Pilot Kyle has TWO earings? I just thought it was interesting given the scene in.. hmm.. The Departure(?) with Sean and Liz and "the earing".

Looks like maybe Sean is replacing what Kyle used to be in the beginning of Season 1? Then again.. look how long THAT lasted!

It fits with Liz's speech in EOTW where she says she doesn't want to be Juliet in a story in which they die. I'm not familiar with why Rosalind dumped Romeo, but was there a visit from a Future Romeo involved?

Hey, I needed to comment that I sincerely hope that this is not where the writers are taking the show "Roswell." Because from the way this plot sounds Liz meets the requried role of "Rosalind." Liz rejected Max, Max felt pushed away! Max then turned to Tess!
Are you saying then that Max realizes he loves Tess? Whoa.............!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm a dreamer fan and I don't want this at all. If the writers are going here, I am so gone from watching this show!!!

Besides, I wanted to watch an alien/human love story mixed with mystery and science fiction. Not a Shakespearean, romantic tragedy! I vote and say get away from this Romeo/Juliet theme that they have going here!
The story ends sadly anyway and the way the character description sounds it won't add sadly with Liz by Max's side but with Tess there instead!

BYE FOR NOW EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Heather

Oh.. and Liz and Max will live happily ever after.

DREAMER>>>DREAMER>>>>>DREAMER>>>> I WILL NEVER FORGET:::::: MAX AND LIZ 4EVER

okay already i'm a dreamer.....but i think we all are....

LOVE YA ALL ~ERIN~

[/QUOTE]

Has anyone else seen The Last Unicorn??? lets latch on to that!!!!

If we're latching on to things.. I pick Jason Behr!

LOVE YA ALL ~ERIN~

(p.s. do you like my new sig???!!)

-----------------
Roswell at its best means tess far away!

Do dreams come true........

LOVE YA ALL ~ERIN~

as i was driving home from California on sunday i was really bored (i wasn't the one driving) so i was doing the TRUE LOVE thing...if you don't know what that is you will soon find out!!! anyway..look at my results for Max/Liz and Jason/Shiri:

Max Evans +
Liz Parker

T-0 L-1
R-2 O-0
U-0 V-1
E-2 E-2

44%

Jason Behr +
Shiri Appleby

T-0 L-1
R-2 O-1
U-0 V-0
E-2 E-2

44%

44% for both..interesting huh???? and
44% isn't very high so i'm sure the TRUE LOVE thing isn't accurate..but still the same for both..hmmm??.....

(if you didn't get it...you put the number of each letter that you find next to that letter..make sense???)

LOVE YA ALL ~ERIN~

LOL LOVE YA ALL ~ERIN~

So I know we are supposed to be patient and all, but have any of the myth thread ptb gotten any word back on the questions that were submitted to the set designers? Just curious. I knew we wouldn't hear until summer at the earliest, so I just thought I would check.

[/QUOTE]

I gotta agree... this whole thread is about obsessive/compulsiveness (I think)
Admittedly, the whole reason I got hooked onto Roswell is because of the "starcrossed lovers" storyline with the sci-fi twist!

Hey Vih !! That is very interesting what you're saying, but ok here's my question, that would only be possible if the granolith is LightSpeed as we're assuming from the last scene you can actually see residue from the thing taking off with Tess. Now hypothetically think of this,

If the world of the souls is a relative line to its own and you went FTL (thru a blackhole per say) or say Liz and Maria where brought back in a second trip after Zan's etc. and because the fundamentals of physics pretty much say that advanced waves could possibly travel in both directions (so FMax was trying to make Max fall out of love with her while Liz goes in another wave to try and resave them because she finds out about the traitor Tess in the future future) then they are left in a void of pure paradox. How do they get out if they have the same forces both pulling away and pulling forward??

Would Liz if she was the one who went last be stuck in a loop of herself?

Thats soo true. On that note about him coming two years earlier , what do you think about (any dreamers out there please don't bash me now ) the possibiity that he came back to make LIZ fall out of love with him so she could turn towards SEAN and they would discover perhaps the real traitor is SEAn and not just Tess? Because FMax said that the problem was that Tess wasn't around when the enemy came, perhaps going on if Sean is Kivar deal (mind you yes I throw things out that could be totally totally wrong) that was why he went to Liz and not to Tess. Someone said something about maybe Tess/Max's son being Max's nemesis I thought interesting because from the conversation Liz had w/FMax I still don't think that it was really Max/Max she was talking to:\.

Shapeshifter I think I need my first tictac now . I am still having trouble with the fact FMax used the granolith to go back in time so how did they get it again if Tess took it? And at what point in the future did they already know how to use it ??

I need to get all these cobwebs outta here .

I just set up a website with a page summarizing my findings on the symbols and text of the Cave Map and the Destiny Book. Most of it was posted back on Thread 45 or 46. But I've revised it a bit and added some stuff.

http://www.geocities.com/asbrown74/CM-DB-2.htm

Let me know what you think. Thanks.

I hadn't thought of the three symbols ("whirlwind", "saturn", and "galaxy") as all being galaxies.

Hey! I just had a thought. If these images on the cave map represent different galaxies (maybe the "rock formation" being our own Milky Way, since it's the new home of the podsters) AND the images represent the five planets of the "home" star system (e.g., the balance map and Rath's later reference), then the planets in their "star system" are each in different galaxies. That would make these planets very far apart. But then, of course, they would have to be very far apart in space in order for us here on earth to distinguish them in the sky as the five separate bodies. I know others have already commented anyway that the V-formation wouldn't look like the V from those planets as it does on Earth. So somehow the "Royal Seal" is based on an Earthly perspective. What would that imply?

Am I making any sense?

You're making damn good sense to me which makes me feel soo much better that I'm not sooo lost . I agree the perspective of it must have some meritable value to the puzzle. Good point.
Back to Liz as the Earth queen we go then

[/B][/QUOTE]

Alright, I don't necessarily believe that the writers are through with Max and Liz. I am a total Dreamer, and from the indications given in Departure it seems like there's going to be a lot in story for these two

I just found that part about Rosalind and Romeo interesting. I wasn't making a prediction that Liz was destined for some doom & gloom while Max was out with Tess.
I actually saw more of Romeo's personality traits in Max. Now, I'm excluding an other comparisons with Tess & Liz, because let's face it these two are not finished with each other.

I see Romeo as a person who doesn't know where he wants to go in life. He comes from a well known family, and seems to inherit a lot of the responsibilites from his father in the future. He has just gotten his heart broken by a woman who he though could have been the one. *I've kinda re-read some of the text and it seems that Rosalind was planning a life of "chastity", which obviously makes a romantic relationship practicallly out of the question* So in despair, he tries to move on with his life.
He soon meets a woman that he feels can "replace" Rosalind in his heart. Get this, it was a Masquerade ball...talk about luck. He picks the one woman who is a part of his family's sworn enemy. Things get chaotic from her on end, and we know how it plays out.
Well Max is like Romeo in the sense that he is the heir, a king no less, to a vast fortune(land, power, etc). He is told that he once "loved" another woman who in this case is Tess. But this is revelation comes as a major obstacle for his "true" love Liz.
Where does his love rest to his past or his present? Just because Max supposedly loved Tess in their past life, doesn't make his love for Liz in this lifetime any less than before everyone discovered Tess. The basic gist is that we do choose our destiny...it's just that some decisions are harder to make than others.

[b] The way I see it, the point of Romeo&Juliet wasn't just about finding your true love. I feel it gestures more to the idea of love, and what we're programmed to believe is true love. I keep thinking of that scene between Grandma Claudia and Liz in Leaving Normal.

quote:LIZ: So, in any case, Kyle's not somebody that I'm going to marry or anything. But it's...you know. We have a good time together. It's good.

LIZ: What?

GRANDMA: Well, not every relationship has to be the be-all and end-all.

LIZ: Right....it doesn't?

GRANDMA: No...everybody wants to find her soul mate, but there's so much time for that. I think it's nice that you have somebody you can have fun with.

LIZ: What if there was something else?

GRANDMA: Something else?

LIZ: Someone else.

GRANDMA: Now, this is worth the price of the airfare.

(Liz looks a bit embarrassed)

LIZ: What if this someone else could potentially be...you know, what you said.

GRANDMA: Is there?

LIZ: But what if were like complicated...like incredibly, incredibly complicated?

GRANDMA: Well, one thing I can tell you....if it isn't complicated, he probably isn't a soul mate.

Don't you think Juliet could have needed a pop talk like this before she went on her suicide mission?

I hope this clears up some things up.

I don't know. Maybe the Destiny Book comes from one galaxy/planet, the granilith comes from another, the podsters come from a different one, Nacedo is arguably a different species so maybe he's from a different planet. Maybe the communicators are from a different one, and Liz is from Earth. The "key" to the podsters "success" may be that they have to bring together pieces from all of the five planets and Earth in order to unite them and bring peace.

?????

This gave me another idea. 5 is a major number as previously discussed. But if Earth is thrown into the mix, then that makes 6. There are actually 6 symbols on the cave map, but only 5 are used to create the V-formation. Maybe Earth/Liz is the "key." Okay, we already know Liz is the key, but our podster buddies seem to need some help with that.

If there is spacetraveling trough wormhole (if writers wants )then there needed one thing called "exotic matter" what keeping wormhole opened for traveling.

Unfortunately it is impossible for a traveller to pass through the wormhole from one Universe into the other.
A traveller can pass through a horizon only in one direction,....

....In principle, a wormhole could be stabilized by threading its throat with `exotic matter'. In the stable wormhole at left, the exotic matter forms a thin spherical shell
(text from: http://casasrv.colorado.edu/~ajsh/schww.html#instability )

What Im traying say?
-Stabilized = in balance.
-Max has strong need be in balance.
-Something about time what Courtny said.
-In CWW diary she write - this is one way trip.
-What Rath was talking about spacetraveling.
-That interesting war:
...Kathana attacks Kivar. Kivar attacks Sero. Sero attacks me. The situation is intolerable!
And noboy attacked back or just can't?
-Spaceship for onetime-only use.
-A black hole...that's what's left after a star dies...implosion of a red giant, unheard of in the history of astronomy..
-For traveling through wormhole needed:blackhole,white hole and exotic matter.
-And space between Zan/Max Worlds is so big.
-Geting back Granolithe is not inaf for Khivar he wants Zan/Max dead in any costs.
-And everybody asking for Granolithe....
Maybe Granolithe is that "exotic matter"?
But then where is Granolithe?...what it is?
-And I have weird feeling all this somehow connecting with Liz...but how?

....I know - Im so boring
And I know - I saw there more than writers are written.

Indie, great post on Romeo and Juliet similarities. I think since the play was discussed in TEOTW, it is safe to assume that JK also saw the parallels, or would at least agree that they are there.

I have a question, if Max hadn't gone out to the cab just then, but like five hours earlier, would he have still seen the flash? If he hadn't attempted to leave alone at all, would anyone have seen it? If that had been Liz out there at that exact moment would she have seen it?

My brain hurts.

theres another theory that a white hole is the oposite end of a black hole....so when a black hole sucks in the matter into non existance........it ends up at the oppsite end where the matter reunites...the white hole.....in a different space and time so a black hole could be a form of travel

what if the granolith has the power to go to parrallel univereses by the use of a black hole/white hole...I mean at present parralell universe not as in time travel because in time travel you are entering a parralell universe. maybe this is a source of power that the skins want

Ping, in "answer" to your question: If a spaceship lands in the forest, and Max & Liz are there cementing, will they hear it?

edited to add this for QueenA:

QueenAmidala01 I think that the Granolith is so important just because it can go between parallel universes. If it were a device solely to get home, and could only be used once, what good is it? Why would Kivar want it? He's already home.

BTW, a metaphorical parallel:
In the first version (pre FMax) Liz and Max used the Granolith and L&M lost their virginity to each other (virginity being a sort of "one-time" thing too).
In the second version (post FMax) Tess got the use of both Max & the Granolith, and Liz lost her virgin status in the eyes of most of the world so that Tess wouldn't leave.

?????

DAT - this is one area that really bugs me... Let's take a look at the evidence.

Alien type one - Hybrids

A mixture of alien essense and human genetic material, these aliens look like humans. However, they have use of their entire brain. Thus they have powers. (Note - this apparantly does not affect their intelligence. They still make stupid choices.)

all images courtesy of crashdown.com

Alien type two - shapeshifters

They have the ability to take on any human form. The shapeshifter can assume the identity of others. They can also become inanimate objects, blending as seen here, Nasedo was blending into the wall. Talk about hiding in plain site.

Alien type three - skins...

They look like humans also, but they do not age. They are wearing husks to protect them from the lethal Earth environment. (No one seemed to care to explain why Earth is now toxic, or why the Destiny planner would chose a poisonious world to send their Royal Four - but hey - it doesn't matter does it.)

Alien type four - the blurry vision, invisiable aliens.

They instinctively follow the Royal Four around. They could be the same as the skins, but who knows for certain??????? Nobody ever asks questions.

Alien type five - the gandarium.

They are hive like, they even have a queen. And here he is....

Inside this man is the queen.

BTW - if you kill the queen, you kill the rest of the hive. These aliens existance is cooperative on some level.

Alien type six - Grandpa Dupree's captives.

These are probably what the hybrids originally looked like. I mean, why would you send a different life form to create vehicles for the essenses of the beloved leaders of your world. Scary huh????

Alien type seven - Glowing white aliens.

Are these the shapeshifters? Grandpa Dupree's abducters? Who are these shiny humaniod??

Alien type eight - changed humans

Not quite human anymore, not really alien either. We aren't sure what Liz and Kyle pass for, but it's not natural is it???? According to Ava, Tess's dupe, when Max brought Liz back, she was changed. She's different now.

And thus Kyle is different too... He can dreamwalk with Isabel's help.

Alien type nine - Possessed Humans

Is it Brody? Or is it Larek??

Dreamer at Heart - I've proposed that more than one world is involved. I think that having so many different aliens in the Roswell canon basically proves it.

How are you guys??? So much Science going on in here.....My brain is going in circles !!!!!! I think we come up with theories that the writers aren't smart enough to figure out...so maybe we shouldn't get our hopes up!!!! But that is what being a DREAMER is all about isn't it!!!!!??!!!!!

well i thought i would just stop bye and say HI to everyone

LOVE YA ALL ~ERIN~

(p.s. HAPPY 4th OF JULY!!! )

The abundance of alien types brings us also to the question of "What really did happen on Antar?" There's already another thread devoted to this here, so I don't want to be repetitive.

They are hive like, they even have a queen. And here he is....
...

Ping, in "answer" to your question: If a spaceship lands in the forest, and Max & Liz are there cementing, will they hear it?

edited to add this for QueenA:

roswelldiva:
Shapeshifter I think I need my first tictac now . I am still having trouble with the fact FMax used the granolith to go back in time so how did they get it again if Tess took it? And at what point in the future did they already know how to use it ??

May I try? Suppose time progressed in the usual way, before TEOTW. Call it Future A. It's 14 years later: Tess walked away, Max & Liz are married, and Kivar's forces are destroying the world. By going back in time, FMax stopped the events after TEOTW from happening. Tess didn't walk away, M&L didn't get married, and so on. All of Future A will no longer exist, including the fact that FMax didn't get sent back, so he disappears once the new situation takes hold.

It's a second chance for all. Future B. So this time, we get the EMHB affair, and Tess flies off in The Granolyth. Nothing that would have happened in Future A is real; it never happened / will happen.

more Roswelldiva:
Thats what the Big Man said and I'm going to stick with it. What it does say is that there could be communication. So maybe FMax didn't know WHEN he was going to land (timewise) so thats why he ended up two years before time. In other words its not as precise as in Back to the Future where you set the alarm to land at "X" time in space.

But FMax did appear at exactly the moment he intended; about a minute before PMax did with the mariachi band. No, PMax's time machine is a very conventional one: it sends you from Time A to Time B, period. One thing the writers got right.

DreamerAtHeart:
I know others have already commented anyway that the V-formation wouldn't look like the V from those planets as it does on Earth. So somehow the "Royal Seal" is based on an Earthly perspective. What would that imply?

That the Roswell writers are spending too much time on "neet stuff" , and not enough time on continuity. I suspect that the "fact" that you can see five stars in a V formation from Earth has only symbolic significance. Remember, they'd be that way all the time, yet it's supposed to be effective only in the spring of the year. IMHO, the "five stars" in the Seal are like the 50 stars in the US flag: not a "real" constellation, but a metaphorical one.

Personally IMO, the show has not done a very good job in defining the origins of the aliens! How many races of aliens are they talking about? At the 'Peace Summitt' meeting in MAX IN THE CITY, there were five leaders. I assume each leader represented one planet!

So how does this ROYAL 4 WORK? Does each planet have a ROYAL 4? Or is there one King and Max/Zan rules over all five planets? If each planet has their own leader, I would assume they each have their own ROYAL 4 or form of government. So Max, Michael, Isabel, and Tess would have to be the same type of alien if they are a ROYAL 4 unit from Antar!

Or does it work in this way, like on earth! Human Beings live on earth! But among us human beings there are different races of people. We have the Cacausian Race, African American Race, Hispanics, Asians etc...because we have different physical features to define us. So maybe Antar and the other planets have different races existing on all the planets. (Ex... On Earth we are called humans/with different races..............On Antar they are called Antarians/with different races!)

I think this should be explained better so we can grasp a general understanding of the podsters background!!!

Heather

May I try? Suppose time progressed in the usual way, before TEOTW. Call it Future A. It's 14 years later: Tess walked away, Max & Liz are married, and Kivar's forces are destroying the world. By going back in time, FMax stopped the events after TEOTW from happening. Tess didn't walk away, M&L didn't get married, and so on. All of Future A will no longer exist, including the fact that FMax didn't get sent back, so he disappears once the new situation takes hold.[/b]

Up with you to this point only viewing the fact they were supposed to "go gomez" two years after that who's to say that timeline hasn't already shapeshifted back into its natural course of action ?

quote:
It's a second chance for all. Future B. So this time, we get the EMHB affair, and Tess flies off in The Granolyth.

With a so-called baby. Now my contraticting thoughts wanna know when, how did the Max and Liz of this Future A timeline learn to use the granolith in the first place? And also this implies the 'enemy' was attacking earth so they never left earth in this scenario, right? BUt when FAMax and FALiz went into the granolith chamber room they didn't seem like rookies to using it...

larm to land at "X" time in space.[/b]

quote:No, PMax's time machine is a very conventional one: it sends you from Time A to Time B, period. One thing the writers got right.

Ok, I was aware the problem was in the trip back timeline and it shifting into this ether wrong so I'll buy that he got there safe and when he intended too. So was the Gomez/Vegas deal happening in TWO years not when he came. This is why Vih and I both think something's fishy...and that that wasn't all they needed to change. Either way if FMax/PMax saw each other they would seize to be. How would dancing with Liz after Max sees her with Kyle force him to disappear??? See what I'm saying. Only way this boy was disappearing is if he used the granolith back or unless there was another him around who he DID see.

quote:Originally posted by aldebaran:
[b]roswelldiva, technically FM and PM didn't meet. Sure, FM saw PM, but they didn't actually meet or touch in any way. In the theory you presented, it just says that the two cannot communicate. Could you clarify this? I know this sounds anal, but I am just trying to get into the swing of the scientific conversation (not something I am used to by any means!). Baby steps for me
[/B]

Uneducated? alde you can never sound uneducated. Just the mere fact you can spell is in itself grounds for you to share your opinion in any forum of the world . What I presented was Einstein's view on the matter in the situation where there are two universes light years away and the possibility that they could communicate. Trust me SETI spends millions on just sending little radio waves testing superluminous fly bys sort to speak . The man DID believe in superluminous communication.

About Max maybe having to have had actual talking communication in order for his self to disappear...thats what I'm still confused on. I wish I could tell you somethign I was 100% sure on but to my knowledge just him peeking into the window and seeing him in present form with Liz should have generated some kind of glitch or somethign noticeable but it didnt he just watches....Then he didn't seize to exist-he's still somewhere and he didn't FTL get beamed back so we're missing something fishy in that ordeal. Plus Liz's first reaction to when she saw FMax was that he was not really Max. I'm with her. I don't think that was Max. The I read there was a scene where FLiz and FMax where watching PMax and PTess trying to get it on so perhaps by "communication" they mean real words to their self not just looking. So I guess peeping is ok ....I'll buy that. But then that generates the entire but when did FLiz get sent back to earth *raises eyebrows*...this WAS going to be in the show but it got cut so we're def missing something.

*pops another tictac*

*Pops another tictac in her mouth and sits in the corner beggin for an absolution to magically appear*

*Chants ohhh Reggimoussss come to our rescue...ohhh Melodious give us peace*...

That the Roswell writers are spending too much time on "neet stuff" , and not enough time on continuity. I suspect that the "fact" that you can see five stars in a V formation from Earth has only symbolic significance. Remember, they'd be that way all the time, yet it's supposed to be effective only in the spring of the year. IMHO, the "five stars" in the Seal are like the 50 stars in the US flag: not a "real" constellation, but a metaphorical one.

[/B][/QUOTE]

...."In principle, a wormhole could be stabilized by threading its throat with `exotic matter'."
What Im traying say?
-Stabilized = in balance.
-Max has strong need be in balance.
-Something about time what Courtny said.
-In CWW diary she write - this is one way trip.
-What Rath was talking about spacetraveling.
-The war:...Kathana attacks Kivar. Kivar attacks Sero. Sero attacks me. The situation is intolerable! And nobody attacked back or just can't?
-Spaceship for one time-only use.
...Maybe the Granolith is that "exotic matter"?
...
Hmmm... all these one-way chances and choices, plus Whitaker's reference to Run Lola Run being the story of her life, AND, Kyle's Buddha fascination (re-incarnation, karma, etc.) right after he was changed. Religions on earth generally give sinners a second chance and a fresh start by various means, but Antarians seem to have to do it all in a real-time physical way, i.e. cloning.

And about the 'exotic matter,' I'm not a physicist, but I would understand it to be a type of matter that is unlike any we heretofore know. When I was young, atoms were thought to be just electrons, protons, and neutrons. Now we know of neutrenos and all sorts of stuff. ***SO*** maybe the Gandarium crystals are a form of the 'exotic matter?'
If Liz goes to school at Las Cruces, maybe she will be able to figure it out.

Roswelldiva---can your run that by me again and explain it like I am a six year old because sometimes I really get lost in this science stuff as much as I am fascinated LOL!!!!

Ok I know I just posted but I found a way to explain it even better I'm gonna go slow and I have no fireworks to watch tonight so you get to dooze off with my mini class

If any of you have like fifteen minutes to kill you would really enjoy watching this little slideshow where it explains everything very, very basic words and its funny to watch :

http://www.qedcorp.com/book/sld001.htm
They do a far better job at it than I would. Its really really good in fact I recommend it to anyone who wants to atleast get a good grip on every subject matter dealing with quantum stuff right now...just remember quantum just means a definated set space of energy or conciousness . So whevever you hear the word quantum it means it has a beginning and an end so it can be tracked. These so called "exotic matter" or "dark matter" is merely the stuff that "fills-in" what they though was all energy. In other words its the opposite of energy . Thats all it really is,...the big hoopla is because discovering this in fact exists will knock a crapload of theories all these new physicts have been working on so they all want it to not exist . Some relgious peeps just use it saying that if all the thinking we've been doing with the math crumbbles then there is a big chunk of master matter somewhere who started it all . Call it God whatever but...hey baby...its there in pure math now! Take THAT!

FMax=Future Max...dude with the long hair
PLiz= Present Liz
FLiz= Future Liz from TEOTW where she comes out wearing the ugly wig and watches as FMAX leaves in the granolith etc.
PMax= Max like Mariachi Max...the cool dude.

Okies, FMAX comes to tell PLiz "baby, we getting married in two years but we can't because i need you to make me not love you or tess will leave when our enemies come and this causes the world to end."
PLIZ:" Ok, sweetheart I'll go pretend to sleep with Kyle since PMax is soo clueless eh'll never wonder why nor ask me but just leeave me alone cool?....They do it then they have this weddin dance and FMax goes disappearing".

Whats wrong with this?...Firstly FMax and FLiz had the plan to send Fmax back in time. They both knew how to 1. Use the granolith like if they were turning on a microwave?? When did they learn to do all this?? And if so why couldn't they just got back to when they didn't know who the enemy was so they can reshape everything back in the future. Oh wait, maybe thats what they need to do . RD is getting all confused because FMax disappeared and he should not have disappeared unless there was

A change in his birth
He met himself in the timeline he was at

Liz doesn't think he's Max at first either and this has left me wondering if they where being watched from the future (which is apparently ok to do and not 'suicidal' according to our writers sort of like Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure :lol . So maybe FMax disappeared when he saw whoever he really was OR unless a third timeline was being changed at the same time. In other words maybe FLiz went back in time to do something else too. There was a scene written and then cut out that had FMax and FLiz watching PMax and PTess so apparently there was a plan to have FLiz also come back...

Thats all I know . Anyone else wanna help PLEASE dooooo

And now, if you click the image below, Liz will take you to the new thread.

Mods, you can close this one now.

Why all this sci-fi stuff and "snuff" things, what in first look not connected with Liz importance to the Alien Mythology?

Bc (in my oppinion) if we know and understand what is going on in this Roswell show we can see clearly how importand Liz is to the Alien Mythology.

and btw. this is fun too
bc. you, Mythers are so great ...in this thread never needed boring warning.
ok.now I going home and sleeping,slpeeping....

in 07:26 morning sry.gram.,spell. and...