The Introduction became so long, Shapeshifter graciously agreed to host it on a website. Below is the Table of Contents to the Intro with links! Hopefully, this will continue to make this Thread accessible to everyone interested in Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology. The Intro includes summaries of all our past discussions, so is well worth reading if you are NEW to our thread! The Intro has been up-dated to reflect observations, clues, discussions and theories through Departure and the end of Season 2. (All of which have added to our belief in Liz’s strength, the Hero’s Journey she is on and importance of Liz to the aliens – whether they know and appreciate it or not!) The newly revised Intro has a few tweaks to be made for “smiley faces” to be added, but all the “words” are there! So, HAVE FUN reading the Intro, and hopefully, it will refresh your memory about a specific topic or a specific date that causes you to think up some new theory! The links make that much easier! (THANK YOU Shapeshifter!) Major changes are “starred” for ease of reading if you don’t want to read the entire thing!

There is never a dull moment on this Thread! We appreciated the refocus during the end of Season 2 on Liz’s importance to the storyline! (Thank you JK and RM! ) Even though Heart of Mine, Cry Your Name, It’s Too Late & It’s Too Bad, Baby It’s You, Off The Menu and Departure (which I collectively refer to as the “Stepford Max” Chronicles in the new Intro) had many inducing scenes, we were provided tons of stuff to chat about and dissect! !! Plus – we have seen so many newbies joining into the discussion this summer - which is wonderful!

Feedback is always welcome! Just PM me.

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Background

Basic Thesis

Just a reminder - Our basic thesis is that LIZ IS AN IMPORTANT AND ESSENTIAL ELEMENT TO THE ALIEN MYTHOLOGY!

What is Subject for Discussion?

Liz's importance to the Pod Squad - and the survival of the human race for that matter - and theories concerning the beings - especially Max - and mysteries swirling around Liz - are what we discuss. So - feel free to join on in, or just lurk! And don't worry about going off on a tangent - they ALL tend to lead back to Liz's importance! (Especially lately!) We are an optimistic and friendly - though seriously anal retentive - group! So - dive in, and join the fun!! But remember – NO SPOILERS! We want everyone to feel welcome!

Liz is Important - The Liz/Max Connection

Consequence of the Connection - the Change?

Origin of the Connection - Where is Liz from, really?

Granolith - How does it fit in?

Destiny - Liz and Max!

Follow Your Heart

Symbolism - WE Do Not Ignore Anything!

Chakras

Einstein's Light Cone

Chariots of Fire - Liz's Necklace in VLV

The "Bride" - will the real one please stand up!

The Books - WHY Doesn't anyone read these things?

The Catalyst - Liz!

Vision Quest - How does Liz fit in?

Time Travel - "Run, Lola, Run"

Hero Journey - Liz's Path

Grandma Claudia - the first connection?

Lifebonds vs. Soulmates

Sheila Hubble - Eerie resemblance to Liz! - What's the connection?

Venus - Liz's mythical connection to the stars!

Numbers - It all adds up to Liz and Max!

Cave Map Symbols - All signs lead to Liz?

Yin/Yang – Liz/Max

Skins - What lies below the surface?

Shapeshifters - Are there more than one?

Handholding - the symbol of the V constellation

Mythology!

Dates

Dates seem to be of extreme interest to those on this thread. So, follow the link to a rundown of dates as I've been able to gather them from episodes, official sites and factual research. If you find a date I’ve missed or see one that is wrong – PM me with the change and where you got your information! I’m always looking for new dates!

In Summary

Finally, (I always have to add this - if anyone from the production staff, crew or UPN reads this or the Intro), WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LIZ/MAX CONNECTION IS CRITICAL TO THE SHOW, AND THAT TOGETHER MAX AND LIZ MAKE AN INCREDIBLE FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!! Even Ron Moore stated in the commentary for Ask Not that the "Max and Liz relationship is so strong and so central to the entire series!"

To have the opportunity for a Season 3 on UPN is WONDERFUL, and this show has the potential to be another “X-files” with intimate relationships IF done right!

A couple of general Thread "Rules" - NO SPOILERS (even asides about spoilers are not allowed – I can’t emphasize this enough as we move towards the beginning of Season 3), but anything "aired" is subject to discussion, including coming attractions/preview and things on the Silverhandprint site. Pictures are welcome, as is deleted dialog from posted scripts of shows that have been aired and commentary by writers/producers. If you know what a preview “really means” due to spoilers, please DON’T tell us – let us speculate – we will find out soon enough! And discussion of the new book “Loose Ends” is now okay that Season 2 is over – though you might hold some stuff back for those of us who still have to read it! Thanks!

As Alex - true and loyal friend to Liz whose life ended too soon - said - "Gripa det dagen" (seize the day)! Liz found the TRUTH, and will avenge his death! (Tess – beware – you have no idea what you have released in the B*#@h!)

Zero
I Shall Believe!!

BTW, page 10 of the last thread is at: http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/009707-10.html

Qfanny, Reggie, and everyone else (including moi) who has not seen the promos, they are available for download (viewable in Reel Player) at: http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/roswellbuffy/Episodes_Season_Three.html
see also: http://mmmgraphics.fanforum.com/animations/bustedpromo.shtml
and/or Vampire Slayer's highlights of the transcript of the promos are at: http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/009822-5.html

Maybe Max & Liz are going swimming?

For any newbies in the crowd: quote:Originally posted by Zero on the last thread:

...and you can download and chat about them. (Reminder - Once previews are "AIRED" - they are free game for discussion, but if you are spoiled and know what they mean - PLEASE DON'T Tell us! Thanks!!

Also, from the promos thread, a suggestion for those of you who are UPNless: quote:Originally posted by antarian_female:
[B]People, fellow Roswell Shippers...
If you don`t have UPN, you can order new eps from Eastlant. They`re great and if you send them an email for info, they`re more than happy to help fellow fans with tapes.So if you wanr, just send an email here:
eastlant@kua.net
I hope this helps some of you!!!!

A past viewer mentioned that she was lucky, I find that three (3) original Pods were.

Style

Okay, I finally saw the Buffy/Roswell promo on UPN and I agree with someone (Reggie?) that it looks like the Liz dance in which she's taking off her clothes is a probably a dream, and, in any event, it does not seem to be part of the same sequence in which Max takes off his shirt, even though the promo shows it that way.

gnite now. z-z-z-z-z-z

Style

Qfanny: I like you am still trying to figure out what kind of clues they were giving us with the hot alien sex discussion? As I researched OBE (Out of Body Exsperience) I found numerous connectins to the Tex, not to mention parallels to alein abduction exsperiences. Also the idea that it took place in a observatory, a place equipped for scientific observation must mean something. Max waking up with that lost look on his face made me question what really happened to him? It sure didn't seem like the guy had just had a wild night of hot alein sex to me.
So what point am I trying to make here? Well I was thinking some where along the lines of what happened to Max on Whiteroom. The one hour culmination sounds more like Max was under some kind of spell that may have allowed experimentation. What if this time instead of Pierce, it was Kivar who was involved in Max's abduction.
So how is all this going to effect Max in the end? Stay tuned for season 3 to find out, I HOPE.

Evid

Oh, for those of you that have my email address, please update it to suedenim@yahoo.com as I will be switching ISPs at the end of the month.

Also, I haven't been posting as much because I am trying to get caught up on my reading. I am going to be writing a screenplay on my grandfather's first book. Besides, I don't get UPN and I sort of feel lost without being current. My audio card is not working, so I haven't taken the time to download the promos.

I hope you can work something out and find a UPN affiliate! We need your contributions to the thread!

Zara

Anyway, here's the symbols from the "Wilder" promo:

Edited to add:
Okay, this is really trippy. I went to the UPN site to download the 'official' version of the promo, and when you point your mouse at the Roswell image, it says: "only one of these people will walk away with a quarter of a million dollars."

The last one looks like the alien swirl orb symbol only more symmetrical. Since I used to think this symbol meant 2 people entertwined, I'd say it meant a couple, but this time an equal couple or harmony itself.

The second last symbols looks like 5 lines of movement. Or maybe 5 people moving toward something?

The 3rd last symbol looks like a baby in utero. Or Tess's baby, SpoT, some call it.

I don't know about the upside down T, a balance symbol maybe.

The first 2 symbols are almost symmetrical, too, only the second has a line instead of 3 dots. So maybe it's the L(Liz of Max), aligned with either the podsquad (3 dots) or the line (one person-again Max or Liz).

So if you read it left to right, I would say this season will be about Max finding balance between Liz and the podquad and finding his son, and his movement towards harmony or a balanced relationship with Liz.

How does that work for you?

WOW.

The second last symbols looks like 5 lines of movement. Or maybe 5 people moving toward something?

or it could represent the 5 elements

SORRY JUST FELT I SHOULD INCLUDE

Nermal - great analysis! It works for me!

I've yet to see all the previews - but UPN sure seems to be stepping up to the plate w/ respect to promotion! Should be an interesting season if the promos are any indication. But I never trusted them on WB - it will be interesting to see how acturately they protray what actually goes on in Season 3.

Welcome to all newbies - BTW - I always like to hear that people found reading the Intro worth their time!!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
FAN!

Check your PM.

We can only Hope!

Courtney

Pan

Evid, interesting theory...the tex was actually an abduction of sorts or it may be a form of travel... I'm wondering if the sonar-communicators might have something to do with it. What if when Max and Liz were sexually active in the presence of the communicators, they acquired the ability to astro-project at that time? I know Max "changed" Liz when he healed her, but that could be something entirely different. As Qfanny has been saying, the astro-projection began with Liz in SH. In Destiny, when Max used the communicator deliberately, he brought his "mother" in an "out of body" way into his presence. Then when Max became sexually activated with Tess, he left his body?

QFanny has been talking about the astro-projection in connection with sex. Now you've got me thinking she may be on to something... If this is true, perhaps Liz and Max could travel in a metaphysical sense, once cemented???

BTW, I'd love it if the strip tease Liz is doing in the promos turned out to be an astro-projection! -HH

Nermal, your analysis of the symbols is quite convincing. I was thinking though that rather than/in addition to the upside down T meaning balance, which does make sense, it might also (okay prepare for my Freudian classes from college to kick in) be some sort of phallic symbol. Same could be said for the earlier figure that looks like an upside down one -- it could be some kind of representation of masculinity, perhaps that needs to be integrated or quelled for balance to be achieved. Okay, I'm going a little crazy here, but what if somehow it represents the individual (and individual desires etc.) in relation to/vs. the group -- since that was a central conflict towards the end of the Roswell High books.
sorry I can be a little crazy with analysis. anything to procrastinate writing my paper

quote:Originally posted by nermal:

I don't know about the upside down T, a balance symbol maybe.

The first 2 symbols are almost symmetrical, too, only the second has a line instead of 3 dots. So maybe it's the L(Liz of Max), aligned with either the podsquad (3 dots) or the line (one person-again Max or Liz).

So if you read it left to right, I would say this season will be about Max finding balance between Liz and the podquad and finding his son, and his movement towards harmony or a balanced relationship with Liz.

How does that work for you?

[/B]

B]

Well, I like analyzing just like the next person, but I think that this is an artist interpretation of a more alien looking word for “WILDER.” Look at the symbols and compare them to the word. You can almost see the word form out of the symbols.

[b]Quote by Reggie from last thread:
. The (official) video of Liz doing a striptease, outdoors, for an undressing Max, makes me sick... and I was already spoiled. Miss Appleby is a very attractive young woman, and I'm a guy who is attracted to women, so I'd know! But our "Liz", doing that?!?

I just have to say “Hallelujah! Praise the Lord!” that I am not the only one to have the same reaction to that! I am a Consistent Character Crusader and it just kills me to see that! And the whole holding up a convenience store (or what looks like it). Now, why would two intelligent beings who have thought themselves out of a lot more harried situations come up with holding up a convenience store? Anyway! I’ll just have to wait and see, but it’s not looking good!

Hey all. It's been awhile. I haven't come on this board recently due to being extremely discouraged by the direction of the show and even more degenerated opinion of the creativity of the writing staff. However, I saw shapeshifter's cap and it reminded me of something.

The second symbol from the left, after the "WB" symbol. I don't know if y'all have brought this up before, but the symbol looks exactly like the Katakana (a Japanese alphabet) symbol for "ru". Food for thought I guess, since I can't really connect it to anything mythy. Although I saw that symbol and my mind flew back to my semester of Japanese a few years ago.

I guess my mind is fried from a full morning of classes... the most liz myth I can come up with looking at those symbols is one of those symbols looks like a comb, makes me think of Michael (that boy needs to do *something* with his hair). And the last symbol looks like two "C's" ... except the "C's" I'm thinking of are for Chanel. Chanel = the fashion horse Isabel. Upside down "T" could be Tess... because she's a podster, but not like them (she's "backwards" per se... a Roswell podster but with a rather severe flaw aka she's "evil". Hence you can see the "T" plainly... except it's upside down, hence, it's a "perfect" T, but something is obviously WRONG with it).

Melodious

I'm a bit spoiled for the first three episodes - so I've kept my mouth shut (fingers still ) on the masked gun-totters, but I have no idea what the strip tease is all about, etc. and I too am a bit concerned where the writters are going with Liz's character "development"? I'm hoping it will all make sense and tie together - but ...

I am very excited about the start of the season and seeing where it all goes! So - I'm staying optimistic!!

And Mel - I've definitely been hooked on Farscape!

Zero
I Shall Believe!
FAN!

[/B]

Hi all! It's been awhile. Like Mel I've also been discouraged with the direction of the show, and perhaps most importantly, with the sense that all of this mythology we've been talking about is a figment of our imagination.

Reading all of the interviews out there w/JK and company, I just felt like they were writing from the seats of their pants, w/out giving a lot of thought to the subtler things that we all get so excited about.

In any case, I hope that once the new season starts, my excitement will return and I will be able to be an active contributor to this thread, my favorite, once again.

That said -- I can tell you what the Liz skinny-dipping is about! UPN has a primarily male viewership. My guess is that this is [one of] their attempts to lure more of that male audience on board.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be negative, but that's what I really think. Well, as of now -- hopefully my opinion will soon be changed.

Hope you all had a good summer!

Smiles,
{~}:}

I also thought the first symbol the left side was kind of shadowy, maybe indicating an evil presence trying to keep the 3 dots, the podsquad, separate. In the 2nd symbol, the right side of the symbol is clear and stands out, and instead of dots there is a line, showing they are united. Liz is the clear symbol to me, showing how the humanity of the podsquad is what will keep them together and not to repeat the mistakes of their past lives.

lou_candy: The phallic symbol idea for the upside down T works well with the idea of the balance and makes sense since it is next to the baby in utero symbol and the differences in the first 2 symbols.

Though, Melodious, you have a point that the simplest answer is usually correct, and it might just be an alien interpretation of "Wilder".

While Liz might get "Wilder", we can hope she doesn't go completely jellyfish on us and be the queen we know she can be.

haniczka: Thanks for the reply about my post. I'm glad you liked it. But I still feel like I'm pulling at straws here or pulling out my hair.
I was wondering if MAYBE JK had a mental battle planned between Kivar and Max rather then a physical battle?
We humans live in a physical world, clues have pointed to the aliens living in a mental world. Max, Iz and Michael couldn't talk when they came out of the pods, but communicated mentally.
What JK failed to do was teach his viewers how to look for the signs of this venture. He made it far to complicated for the average viewer. What he did in season two was change gears, and instead of searching for a middle ground, he took us back to pre-school, (Maria at the chalk board, comes to mind) or he changed his mind completely. So at this point everyone is stumped and JK has turned into our absent minded professor.

Meta & Mel: I'm right there with you, I'm also having major doubts about season 3. This thread has always made it so much more exciting to watch Roswell. I couldn't wait to see if our clue searching would pay off. When Liz used her powers on MITC I was thrilled and had to log on as soon as possible. I just knew Qfanny would be ticked off. Let's just hope JK comes to this thread and takes notes.

shapeshifter: I loved your analysis of the symbols. I think your right about UPN erasing all memories of the Tex, when it comes to Liz that is.

lou_candy: I'm glad you stopped by for a visit. I hope you come back and post more often, we can always use someone who took Freudian classes. Hey, maybe the upside down T means Tess is dead.

Evid

Mel, glad you could stop in and join us!

Could Liz's dance be Max's dream?
And I too am puzzling on the reason our fine, upstanding Max & Liz would rob a convenience store. Maybe they needed to get put in jail for some alien reason?

Evid -- I like your interpretation of the upside down T best. Maybe it means that Tess has been overturned as queen and Liz is the new queen

Reading all of the interviews out there w/JK and company, I just felt like they were writing from the seats of their pants, ...Meta, lately I've been coming up with major theories that could work as entire Season story arcs, and I know that many fanfic writers do the same, and much of it is discussed online. I am thinking that the immediacy of the Internet has influenced writers on a show with a large online following--that they must 'fly by the seat of their pants' if they are to ever serve their viewers a surprise ending to an arc. Did you know that Marshall MacLuan's famous words were not:
"the medium is the message,"
but rather:
"the medium is the massage?
I think what we have here (in part) is the medium of the Internet massaging the outcome of the story to some degree.

And Evid, ITA, the disappearance of Tex is one plothole/Chad I wouldn't mind overlooking.

in australia WE STILL ARE UP TO MAX IN THE FREAKIN CITY

All I can do is take Liz’s advice and “have faith in the people around you.”

Evid, I love the idea of Khivar and Max doing battle in some sort of non-physical rhealm. It makes sense that Khivar would cover all bases. He took care of the physical battle by sending the Skins. He certainly weakened Max on the emotional front by making a "deal" with Nacedo assigning Tess to orchestrate something (we're not sure what...). So a mental warfront would be good strategy. I keep picturing that scene in MITC when they touched Max's head and the coded confirmation of his royalty revealed itself. That could have laid the ground-work for a mental war.

I agree with your criticism that JK changed gears half-way through season two, but I faithfully believe the change began right around the time the renewal of the show became a serious question. He had created something potentially great and had to struggle with criticism from those holding the money bags. I have placated myself into believing that pressure from the WB is what led to the "Pre-School" format and conflicting storylines. I'm trying to be a dreamer you see, not just for M/L but for JK as well...

Hi Melodious and Meta! So good to hear from you. Meta, ITA the male UPN audience; that would explain it - Reggie already said as much from his own personal experience!!! Okay, so it's a dream, or an astro-projection (from Liz's subconscious) used to hook potential (cough-MALE-cough) viewers, and NOT to compromise the integrity of the future VIRGIN QUEEN!!!

YIKES, too long winded as I feared. Everyone have a good day!! -HH

Edited to add if I seem to be inconsistent, I meant in the previous sex and Astro-projection post to indicate ideally, they'd be cementing and astro-projecting as (married, soul-mates) King and Queen. Is that asking too much UPN??? Sorry to those in need of Tylenol after reading all this...

Thats really funny I was thinking the exact thing about the 'comb' . Well...anyone watching the news now ?! I can't believe that anyone could manage to $$<--support that kind of terrorism. Thats where Max said he was King of the World...hmm. Tess musta jinked the World Trade center.... I'm still in shock about the magnitud of this. This is about the time I really wish there were super humans like Max that could help out . Somebody come hug with me here cause I'm flipping out. My bro was in that building but he called to say he was ok. This is mad, huh?

And on the astro orgasm that max had...darn right it was more an astro trip than a real orgasm...hour or not. Liz can definately do this to but I bet she doesn't like to bring about her powers so thats why she won't be showing them anytime soon. Well anyone call to see if the dupes are ok?

My mother keeps saying Nortradamus called this. I pray they don't go to WWIII !
Do you guys think that the buildings feel because of the extra pressure weight of the plane on it or you think it was another bomb?!?

Somebody come talk to me !!

quote:Originally posted by healersbabe:
Thats really funny I was thinking the exact thing about the 'comb' . Well...anyone watching the news now ?! I can't believe that anyone could manage to $$<--support that kind of terrorism. Thats where Max said he was King of the World...hmm. Tess musta jinked the World Trade center.... I'm still in shock about the magnitud of this. This is about the time I really wish there were super humans like Max that could help out . Somebody come hug with me here cause I'm flipping out. My bro was in that building but he called to say he was ok. This is mad, huh?

And on the astro orgasm that max had...darn right it was more an astro trip than a real orgasm...hour or not. Liz can definately do this to but I bet she doesn't like to bring about her powers so thats why she won't be showing them anytime soon. Well anyone call to see if the dupes are ok?

My mother keeps saying Nortradamus called this. I pray they don't go to WWIII !
Do you guys think that the buildings feel because of the extra pressure weight of the plane on it or you think it was another bomb?!?

Somebody come talk to me !!

Of course, just watched the Promo's and . WHAT is our Liz doing? A strip tease? Skinny dipping?

Also, guns? Sex? Arrests? Looks a lot more like "the dupes" than our originals if you ask me! Thankfully, only 28 days...

Do you guys think that the buildings feel because of the extra pressure weight of the plane on it or you think it was another bomb?!?

Somebody come talk to me !!

Well, here's a hug: :hug: . ( Is there a hug smiley? There should be. We need one.)

Well... Those Guys have been at war with the rest of the world for centuries. We aren't their specific religion, so we must be converted or be killed. The US is the society least likely to do either, and we've been convincing others to come with us, so we are tagged as The Great Adversary. ("Satan" translates as "Adversary".) I don't think it'll be WW3, but I expect it'll get uglier before it gets better. A little ugly now, should stop a bigger ugly later. See Nevil Chamberlain...

World Trade Center: It's not the weight of the planes; airplanes are much lighter than buildings. It's the fuel, and resulting fire damage to the supports in the center of the buildings. (That's why they hijacked planes that were intended to go long distances; they had bigger fuel loads.) Once the fire had damaged the supports (softening the steel, spalling the concrete), the support in the middle of the building gave way. Once the upper parts were moving downward, they didn't stop; crushing the rest of the building.

Evid, I love the idea of Khivar and Max doing battle in some sort of non-physical rhealm. It makes sense that Khivar would cover all bases. He took care of the physical battle by sending the Skins. He certainly weakened Max on the emotional front by making a "deal" with Nacedo assigning Tess to orchestrate something (we're not sure what...). So a mental warfront would be good strategy. I keep picturing that scene in MITC when they touched Max's head and the coded confirmation of his royalty revealed itself. That could have laid the ground-work for a mental war.

i like th idea evid.......what if this mental war was to take place in the collective conciousness.......as writtin in the books

im shocked about what has happened in US guys
im so sorry what has happened and for those people that died

lou_candy, My daughter's 2 miles from what was the WTC, but she's okay. She too says it's surreal--"like a cheap movie."
It's the magnitude of it that's getting to me.

I am deeply sadden and trouble by the terrorist attacks today. Amazing as it sounds, the events of NYC, DC and PA did touch me today in the center of our country. I have family that works for the airlines. I have friends in the military at the Pentagon building. I know people living in the area destroyed. And while I worried about all that, working accounts until the blood stopped flowing to my head, I waited. I listened. My coworker crying because she didn't know where her flight attendant daughter was... The radio reporting Bush had landed at Strategic Air Command where the underground bunker was. We know SAC is the back up to the pentagon. We know that's the safe haven for AIR FORCE ONE. We knew it was more serious than what we were being told. I work and live within 35 miles of SAC. I was worried. I live in the bull's eye.

I hate feeling powerless.

Tomorrow morning, I will wake up, and be thankful that I'm alive. I will be thankful that I have a job to go to, and I will be hopeful that no else will ever experience this type of shock and horror again. And I wasn't even there....

Maybe I'll post more tomorrow. But I'm too busy praying tonight.

We live in Upstate New York so my children were "locked down" in their schools yesterday and went back a little less child-like today. Many have friends and family who are unaccounted for. The immensity of this... it's going to be more far-reaching than we can comprehend. Qfanny, RBI's, if it helps at all, many of us are praying with you in spirit. -HH

P.S. Does anyone remember if Alexis works in NYC?

quote:Originally posted by shapeshifter:

[/b]lou_candy, My daughter's 2 miles from what was the WTC, but she's okay. She too says it's surreal--"like a cheap movie."
It's the magnitude of it that's getting to me.

[/B][/QUOTE]

I'm working from home today, and finding it extremely difficult to concentrate. I live and work in NYC, and I can tell you, this has been horrible beyond your wildest imagination.

I saw the events unfold with my own two eyes. First there were two buildings, one on fire. Then both were on fire. Then I saw one building on fire, then in the space that the Twin Towers used to be, there was nothing but an immense plume of smoke.

I was next to a woman who just found out what happened. Apparently she overslept and was late to work. The first plane had apparently hit the floor where she worked. She was a mess, understandably so, so a few of us helped her get where she needed to go.

It was a day of waiting. Waiting to hear that all your loved ones were OK -- everything made more difficult by the fact that communication within the city was severely disrupted by the tragedies. Cell phones weren't working and it was difficult to get through to those who you needed to get through to.

Luckily I now work in Midtown, however, at my previous job,I was a few blocks away from the WTC. This has hit way too close to home.

My baby cousin finally got through to us towards the late afternoon to let us know he was OK. His bldg. was also close to ground zero. While he was unhurt, I doubt that he will ever forget what he saw while they were trying to get out of the area. He recounted to me the stories of watching people jumping out of the windows of the towers. I pray for their families.

I had another friend who was hurt by falling debris after the first plane crash. We were unable to locate her after the bldgs. collapsed, but finally heard from her late last night. She is OK. Yet another friend is still missing. I'm sure as the days go on, we will find out about more people who are no longer with us.

This is a tragedy of epic proportions, and my heart goes out to everyone who was touched by this around the world. Yesterday was the most surreal day I have ever experienced. Being in Manhattan was like being in a bad war movie, except you couldn't change the channel or walk out of the theater. New Yorkers have risen to occasion and this event has definitely brought out the best in everybody.

Please say the prayers for those who are no longer with us, and those we are waiting to hear from.

{~}:}

Yes, I've looked in on the Check-In thread a few times myself.
And (like many RBIs?) I like to know what's going on. That's why I'm a regular here, and on the CHADs thread. Maybe it's a coping mechanism, or just because I deal so much better with things than with people. <sigh> Anyway, glad to help.

Alexis, yes, we pray for the families. I remembered you worked in a large city!! I'm very glad you and so many who've been posting here are okay.

Oh, and Reggie, I know I'm not personally equipped to handle what this means in terms of human life. Talk about things! Do you think they planned this day for a specific reason, I mean is the date of significance? Or do you think they waited for perfect weather? Did ANY of you notice the color of the sky behind the destruction? Not one cloud...no weather delays. -HH

Today is a good day to die? Klingons have more honor...
But I heard that one of 's followers was to be sentenced for something; perhaps that's it. Or maybe it was just a scheduling thing: they needed a certain number of planes, and it just worked out that way. There are an inordinate number of coincidences... something that should appeal to unoccupied RBIers!

Has anyone heard from DocPaul? I heard on the Checkin thread that she was doing rescue work and hasn't been heard from in 24 hrs. Some of her brilliant psychological analyses are available at: http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/PsychologyofRoswell.htm

BTW, my birthday was yesterday.

Wanted to drop this off because I find it captures the greatness of the souls that are taking part in helping. I only wish I could be there now to atleast help give out blood.

quote:Originally posted by Melodious1:

My contribution in memorium to the horrible events of Sept. 11.

May God bless us all, and may God give us the patience to stand together as one indivisable and good.

Reggie :thanks for the hug I almost considered flying into the U.S. but they closed all air transport. It just overwhelmed me to not be able to do anything from soo far away . They totally should have a hug emoti.

Well not much I can talk about today without getting into the madness that this builds in my once life-loving heart. I pray that Mr. Bush and the United Nations really think this thru I am sure they will but goodness its hard to not want to severly punish those jack@ss celebrating this in Iraq. Violence needs to stop and I am wondering if my humanity would be able to spare the life of these people even harbouring those involved.

God help us all to solve this calming without rush judging and jumping to conclusions! God help me not get on a plane to go smack a few of the people celebrating this. I know that those people are not to blame but their leaders...

May we all stand as ONE .
I guess Tess leaving wasn't enough to stop TEOTW huh? Someone go find Max and bring him here !! grr...!! We need some superpower ASAP!!
RD

Today is Thursday and yet the tragedy of Tuesday still rings over and over in my head. As someone on another thread said it is so hard to talk about, yet it's ALL we can talk about.

Yesterday was surreal. I woke up in a haze thinking possibly Tuesday was a dream, but it was not. The day went by with work and people rushing around trying to get from point A to point B, as they always do in Boston. It seemed like any other day, yet when you took the time to stop and listen - it was all abuzz.

Hotels have been evacuted, office buildings searched for bombs, people questioned everywhere and an FBI agent seen on almost every other block. My world has changed forever and I can say I don't feel safe.

Osmar bin Laden? Is he to blame? Some insane religious fanatic that took my peaceful world and threw it down the drain. Someone took all these innocent people and killed them for reasons they aren't even willing to stand up and state. I'm so sad that I can't stop crying and I'm so angry that I just don't know what to do with myself.

My love and prayers go out to everyone everywhere because we ALL need them today (and tomorrow.. and the day after that..). I love you all - stay strong. Here's to brighter days in the future..

First, I am so increadibly sorry for anyone who lost someone in the terrorist attack yesterday. My best goes out to you and your family. You'll all be in my thoughts.

Second, I would like to post what I did write. A lot of my school friends and I have been expressing our anger in words. Thought I might just share:

"As you all know, yesterday, September 11, 2001, terrorists attacked NYC and Washington DC. It was horrible. I live in NYC and although I never saw the crash itself, just hearing about it shocked me. I was sitting in my school bus, which was ironically was stuck in a car accident when I first heard. My bus driver had slowed our bus due to the slowing of a car in front of us when a car behind us slammed into our bus. Everyone was fine though. We thought this was the 'highlight' of the day - we'd be able to go around school and tell all our friends why we didn't arrive till a half hour into the second period. WE WERE WRONG.

The first time I had heard what had happened, we were boarding the 'D' Bus, which had come to pick us up from our bus. Two of the students had borrowed our driver's radio and were broadcasting the news to everyone. And, even then, the full extent of the incident hadn't occurred.

I think it was about homeroom, after third period, around ten-thirty when word truly reached my school in the Bronx. After that, chaos. Students crying in the hallways, teachers trying to maintain normal class, never actually succeeding. I myself had an aunt whom, at the time, I believed only worked in the area. Later that day, I found out she worked in the 35th floor of the South Tower of the World Trade Center. My family was lucky. She was running late for work and therefore never made it to the Towers. I don't want to imagine what it would be like if she did.

At some point, all of the teachers, except for a handful had given up on teaching us. We went from class to class, listening to updates on our situation through the PA system, watching televisions or listening to radios if our classes had them. Cell phones would ring in the middle of periods. No one cared if we were late or walked out in the middle of class. Even my AP US History teacher, the hardest teacher in the school, just sat in his chair, listening. It was so frightening.

Then came the worst part. They were blocking all traffic into Manhattan. I go to the Bronx High School of Science and our students come from not only the Bronx, but Queens, Brooklyn, and Manhattan too. Not allowing traffic in Manhattan meant I couldn't get home.

Again, I was fortunate. My school was organizing dinner and if needed, sleeping arrangements, for those who couldn't get home. But my mother's friend in upstate NY agreed to come and allow three of my friends and I to spend the night at his house. Were we ever grateful not to have to stay at our school to who knows what hour. His family was nice and provided us with everything we'd need to have a comfortable night.

We made it home today. To Manhattan, to our families, who were all all right, thank God. To see a huge cloud of smoke in place of where the Twin Towers once stood. I can't believe that yesterday morning, everything seemed perfect. It seemed like the only thing I had to worry about was being late to school. It is scary how fast life can change in an instant. I will never forget anything that has happened yesterday. I'm sure no one will.

My condolences and sympathies go out to everyone who suffered in this tragedy. I wish the best to everyone. It was a hard and scary day. As many people have said, this completely tested the strength of our nation. But we will get through this. We have to."

Again, the best to everyone.
-Jen

shapeshifter, I'm so glad your daughter is safe. I did see DocPaul posted on the check-in thread. I think it's the third page. She's okay.

I haven't been to the Crashdown in ages (or so it seems). I wonder what they're up to. And I hope our Roswellian writers realize they are not writing for the same audience that existed three days ago. People are in need of reassurance, and discussion. Reggie, we may see aliens dancing to celebrate evil, or experiencing a change of heart to save instead of mame. And OF COURSE we'll see NORMAL humans step up to task to help those in need. But they still won't be as heroic to me as the rescue workers sifting relentlessly through the piles of American heartache. -HH

Please know that my family is keeping the entire nation, her leaders, and her people in our prayers. God bless you all.

God help me not get on a plane to go smack a few of the people celebrating this. I know that those people are not to blame but their leaders...RD

All this "getting on a plane". You have one of your own? Where are you, anyway?

The people dancing in the streets were not ordered there, nor told to show joy. Is this not their own doing; their own responsability? Can we blame one person, for another's evil?

Plumaria: Who makes/approves the "smilies"? How hard, to get a :hug: one available?

TVpooh, it's good to hear that you're OK in DC. Also good to see more reassuring news about sidera on the KH board. http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum58/HTML/000163-5.html#111 (She used to post often on the Science Fiction threads; I don't remember about here.) Her sister Kay (posting under sidera’s name) says she’s in recovery and expected to be out of the hospital soon.

As it happens, today is my birthday. (By Roswellian coincidence, it’s the same as Ms. Topolsky’s, except mine was in the Summer of ’47.) At least two things today have cheered me -- the encouraging update about sidera, and a story from Britain: Today at the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace, the band played the US national anthem.

Wow! That's pretty amazing!

And Happy Birthday, Nemo. Maybe Michigan will win a game for you soon... -HH

unfortunately even if I did they are not letting planes come in or out of the airports . I'm in the Caribbean . And yeah how weird I don't think I've ever since a hugging smilie

Whats your opinion on that Notradamus quote thats been flying about? I figured you'd all be here theorizing if the shoe fits or not . I wanna get into Liz mything soo bad but my brain just doesn't go part 1st gear . We have to be strong because I am starting to think this might go on for the long run *sigh*.

W A R N I N G:

I really know it might not be appropiate so if you're easily disturbed or hypersensitive ...DO NOT READ ON...

I wanted to ask you biochemists self taught or none paper official what you think about what usually follows when there are soo many decomposing bodies/part centered in one area? Like after the Paris massacre and the great London Fire, I heard that it might be prone to forming a sort of "plague". There have been discussions here about how hard it is to take the time to respect each person in the rubble and tranfer them to get ID'ed etc...and thus to clean up the mess before it starts to become dangerous for its surroundings?!?

I do not mind that Sept. 11 is my birthday--I have always felt awkward "celebrating." I am honored to donate that day as one of somber remembrance and reflection for those who have passed. But perhaps we need a whole week? I'm sure your birthday was like that today.

quote:Originally posted by DocPaul:
I am just checking in from NYC, my time is short, so I just want to say that I hope everyone is okay.

I posted a larger post on the candy thread. And hopefully I will be going home in a few days or so, but this looks like a long haul.

I am sorry for those who suffered loss, so incredibly sorry, and we will try to find your love ones.

I also ask that you spread this though to all the shipper groups across the boards.....I know we love the characters or actors that we support on theses boards, but please do not make banners and fanart depiciting your shipper groups sorrow over this using these fictional characters. It is exploitive of the dead, of the tragedy, even if it doesn't look or even meant to be so. None of our favorite characters can give blood, or carry the dead home. So perhaps this is not the time or way to prove to the larger community how "chemistry" filled your couple or character is.

These were REAL people who deserve to be mourned by REAL people. A single candle burning says so much......in it's singularity, and it's guiding path to bring our beloved dead home.

I can say no more, because the horror of these events are too great to behold. Just be good to each other, and teach your children not to hate, and please give blood, especially if you are types O negative or positive.

Doc

healersbabe, about the Nostradamus "quote": that has been shown to be bogus. http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum12/HTML/000523-6.html#149

To hear some commentators and reporters, you'd think the Trade
>Center was completely filled with rich brokers and arbitragers who
>came in from Connecticut on commuter trains. But those of us who
>know New York realize that most of the people in those offices were
>back-roomers, many of them with names like Luis and Theanetta and,
>yes, Muhammad. They processed the data at the financial companies
>and law firms, they worked in the buildings' restaurants and stores,
>they ran the parking lots and heat and lights and elevators. They
>got to the towers every morning by subway from Queens or Brooklyn or
>Jersey. And they went to the Trade Center to make the rent, not make
>their fortunes. The terrorists may have wanted to kill rich
>capitalists, but the lists of the dead will inevitably include far
>more people who were barely making it than those who had it made.
>
>New Yorkers know that...those missing towers were about
>real people and their very real lives.
>
>And what was happening all over Manhattan was--is--what we are
>about. Those who were fueled by hatred to lash out at us may see us
>as uncaring, greedy devils without heart, without spirit. But we
>know we are the people who race to the danger to help, who give the
>injured and frightened anything we have that they might need-the
>support to walk down 80 flights of stairs, the food in our
>cupboards, the shelter of our homes, the gift of our blood, even our
>lives. We are the firefighters, EMTs, cops and plain citizens who go
>straight into burning, exploding buildings, knowing full well the
>dangers, offering up our lives to save others.
>
>There's a lot of talk about this horror changing us forever. How
>then do we choose to be changed? We can let ourselves be driven by
>hatred of our attackers. We can become terrified, the terrorists'
>plan for us. But how would we be changed if we chose to hold in our
>hearts the images of ourselves as courageous, compassionate
>beings--if we lived our daily lives that way, not waiting for
>catastrophe to strike, but reaching out to each other every day that
>we walk this earth?
>
>Let us choose to make that the way we are changed by September 11, 2001.
>--
>
>Ann Medlock, President
>The Giraffe Heroes Project

Edited to explain "the Giraffe Heroes Project" is an organization whose motto is "Moving People to Stick their Necks Out for the Common Good." ( www.giraffe.org )

I wanted to share something that Usagi posted on the spoiler board. I don't have much to say at this point that hasn't been said already. I just thought these words need to remembered and never forgotten.

I hope that the US goverment and the American people ponder deeply the premise we founded this country on. That all men are created equal. That life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are the fundamental right of every human. I want the American people to recognize this indescribably painful moment as an opportunity to lead the world to a new world wide level of consciousness.
If I was to add one word it would be Amen.

Evid

No, dear. They just approved "the use of force". Congress has not used the W word... yet.

Of course "the other guys" have been at war with us for years, and said so plainly. So maybe we should, too? And even start shooting back...

I'm so tired of all the casualties being ours!

And, to whoever asked, I wouldn't expect a "plauge" as such. Most of the bodies were probably consumed by the fires.

From the Hebrew Scriptures (which I believe are embraced by Jews, Muslims, and Christians alike), Ecclesiastes: quote:3:1 For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:
2 a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
3 a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 a time to throw away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 a time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to throw away;
7 a time to tear, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.

From death there the goodness of life. Good shall survive.

Style

I had been away from Roswell for a while as the beginning of the school year came. Lately, I've been totally absorbed by the news. This is all so terrible. In the midst of it all, the Roswell tapes I'd ordered finally came. I was surprised they made it at all with all of the delays around the country.

I've been watching the beginning of Season 1 as a reprieve from the non-stop coverage of the chaos and terrorism. It will be very interesting to see how so many media outfits deal with this as we head into the new season.

I was finally able to download the UPN promo. OMG! Is that our Liz doing a striptease?!?! I know this has been brought up earlier on this board (I haven't had a chance to read everything), but I finally saw it for myself. It's much more sleazy (?) than I had imagined from the descriptions I had read. It can't be our Liz! And arrested too! It is very striking--especially after watching the first few eps of S1.

Before I sign off, I would like to share something I shared with my students yesterday. I had them do a writing assignment and I wrote too. It helped me a lot.

A National Day of Prayer and Rememberance

It all still seems so unbelievable. Like something out of a movie—Independence Day, Armageddon, and Air Force One all rolled into one. I will never forget turning on the television to see a hole through a New York City skyscraper and soon after watching an airplane crash into the second tower. I cried on the phone many times with my mom on Tuesday.

In the last few days I have run though so many strong emotions—anger, grief, love, pride, fear; to name only a few. Teaching has been hard. I have never before felt so scatterbrained and confused. Many students, young adults, look to me each day for information and answers. I have none. There will be many questions that we will never have answers to.

This week I have found comfort with my family and friends who I love very much. I have been so very proud of my students this week as they listen respectfully to others and opened their wallets for over $3000 in donations in one day. I am not a religious person, but I find myself thanking God that I have not lost any family or friends this week—at least none that I know of yet. The effects of this disaster will be felt for a long time. For me these include so much from greater security while traveling to never being able to watch the show Friends quite the same way again.

I’m glad we have today. I’m glad today is a day of patriotism across this country and the world. I cried when the news showed guards at Buckingham Palace playing “The Star Spangled Banner.” I’m sure I will continue to cry many times in the upcoming weeks. I am thankful for all that I have and I am proud to be who I am.

September 14, 2001

"Our" Liz? <sigh> Well, it's Jason Katims' Liz. Dunno about KK's Liz. I'm very spoiled, this year: after "Departure", I needed to see the pie coming. You're beginning to see it, too. 'Nuff said- wouldn't want anyone to get spoiled worse than the porno-promo does.

Uh oh! I hope they don't turn Roswell into 90210 with aliens . Might have to turn into WB for aliens instead

Pooh

p.s we do need a <HUG> emoticon!

I also heard that the writers/producers, who ever the TPTB are want to have Rowell be like the Star Trek's. What I mean is you know how the Star Trek's are just shows and have no sequence? Like the follow week has nothing to do with what happened the week before? Well that's what I heard they want to do. I also heard we're never going to see Antar. Now that the Granolith is gone there's no way back.

Some one please give me some good news. Send me a PM!

I BEG you SPOIL me please!! PM me the goods !!

The basic channels in prime time show (L.A.) 7, 4, 2, 11, 5, and then 13 (UPN). UPN here in Los Angeles has a strong following.

To my understanding, UPN likes sci-fi, and to this thread, a Human and Alien, for a reason fell in LOVE.

Style

Yeah, I sort of felt guilty to come on line recently. I wanted the phone lines available for those that really needed it. Tuesday when I tried to log in, it was absolutely sluggish.

Friday night I went to a prayer vigil on the steps of our state capital. I arrived early, and was upfront. As the Governor Johanns was speaking, I turned around and looked out. The capital mall was packed with about 4 to 5 thousand people. And it was just beautiful to see everyone and the candle light glow. I've never seen anything quite like it.

I'm just having a really hard time doing the Liz Myth thing right now.... But I do hope that the producers address this issue in Roswell somehow.

Finally took a moment to pop over to my favorite thread tonight. Of course, my mind has been on other things, but today.. I took out Season 2. My way of finding some solice in the madness.

I'm still very much in shock from this whole tragedy and very sad about everything. It's interesting to read about people's thoughts. Being online actually gives me a little better grasp at everything since I live alone and have pretty much decided that the news is just not for me anymore these days. Not too much "news" being show, but lots of heartache that my heart just can't take atm.

I know lots of people have mentioned seeing bits of this entire tragedy being addressed in Roswell. I can't see that happeneing. I think it's important that we all face this and fully delve into it in our real lives, but there's a fine line in TV. I went to a comedy show Thursday night to escape the madness in my head. We all wondered if anything would be addressed, it wasn't. What a good call that was. I feel the same about Roswell. I just can't imagine them incorporating any of this Attack on America IN Roswell, ya know? Just doesn't seem the place.

On a totally seperate note - has anything seen Free Enterprise? This may have been common knowledge to everyone except me, but I just watched it yesterday and it runs very similar to Roswell. Scenes shot at Vasquez Rock and in Covina. It was very bizarre. Couldn't see who wrote or directed, but I may have an idea.

One final thought - Season 3 and our Liz (yes, Reggie, OUR LIZ )? Well, I could maybe see it being a dream sequence, but it just seems so out of character. Of course, no one seems to be "in character" these past episodes. I can't wait to find out what it all means...

You have PM! (Credit to Rachael BrightEyes.)

And yes, I'd really like for them to completely ignore the terrorism. Unless they have Max thwart a terrorist act of some sort. Doggone it, this is supposed to be a work of fiction; an entertaining, enlightening, and ultimately uplifting show. A noble guy, saves a maiden in distress. Romance ensues.

Now, our noble guy (formerly a King, how 'bout that! ) is an ass; and we're wondering about our maiden's maidenhood. I fear it may only get worse. So, what with one thing and another:

If any of you folks decide to drop away, hale and farewell! It's been fun, it's been entertaining and enlightening. I've learned from you, and enjoyed your company. I hope that you've enjoyed mine, at least a little. Friends, please do say farewell, before you go. And we'll miss you...

I thought that was hysterical. Unfortunately, last week's events have quite a different tone than the election.

As far as Roswell and NY are concerned, has anyone on this thread already addressed the NY connection with the dupes? Hmmm...what if it's a Dupe Liz doing the striptease?

Indeed. I have my severe doubts the writers even remember what country they're in much less make the Ros storyline come together...

When Brody referred to the "new president", I was wondering if he could have been referring to Mexico's new president (since they had just elected a new president a few months prior and we were obviously still sans commander-in-chief). Hence, my distress over if the writers remember they're in the U.S. of A as opposed to the Republica democrata de México. I really do believe they think they're writing for Univision or perhaps Telemundo.... some of the plotlines in this show do remind me of Latin American soap operas.

::beats down the bitterness with a very blunt object... realizing it will only resurface later and probably 10 fold at any/every mention of Roswell, tex and/or CHAD::

Melodious

As far as Roswell and NY are concerned, has anyone on this thread already addressed the NY connection with the dupes? Hmmm...what if it's a Dupe Liz doing the striptease?

I mentioned something right after I watched the promo. Not that I really think (or certainly I hope NOT) that they'll be inquiring a Dupe-Liz, but I made some reference to.. "sex, guns, stripping Liz's" - just looks more like the dupes than the Pod Squad (and friends) we know.

This are only my thoughts...;P
-------------
sry.gram.,spell.

I hope you're right.

I haven't been spoiled at all--I've only seen the one promo. I'm very eager to see how Season 3 plays out....

I think the thing that threw me was her "approach" to the whole thing. She seems to be swinging her top (or pants or something) over her head with a type of wildness to her that just seems very un-Liz-like. I, for one, am ALL up for a little Max/Liz bounding I love those two together and heck.. everyone needs to be young and in love once in a while.

Of course.. as we know.. things aren't always what they seem in Roswell, which is why I stil have my questions.

"Bouncing" or "bonding"? ... Either/or is fine to me!

Melodious

Melodious

Bonding is what I meant.. of course, I obviously need more coffee.

melodious1 where is your head this days :nono; between your noticing the bo"U"nding and the tank comment the other day I'm still cracking up. our poor couple doesn't deserve to get raunched soo Shame on you guys!! Whats a little stripteasing. I myself have no problem except for the unglamourous "undies" used in the groove of it all. I hardly think grandmother undies make for a type of keeping Liz "pure". Just gives me the chills in the wrong kinda way. On another note lets hope this does go into a latin "soaperish type" scene since they always end well...well etc for the men who I happen to find incredibly unsexy and boringly 'macho' (sowwy).

reggie thank.u soo very muchly !!

I've been MIA due to the horrible events of last week. Just haven't had the interest - though I miss ALL of you! (And I pray that you are all well!)

Right now - I'm so numb that I will just have to wait out and see if the new season can inspire some interest in me. I too have no problem with a little "young love skinny dipping" - IF done right - but (being totally unspoiled about this all) it will all depend on how it plays out! I just will have to wait and see - because I won't be able to deal with a Season of CHADS and being jerked around - especially in my current state of mind.

As far as incorporating the current events into the show - I have mixed feelings about that. Roswell is a "fantasy" show - with its own reality - so I don't feel a need for these events to be incorporated - whereas with "Felicity" and "Gilmore Girls" (two shows I enjoy) it makes sense for the events to be written into the story lines - especially Felicity which is set in NY. Now - Buffy - again has its own reality - so again - like Roswell - I see no need.

Okay - off to eat lunch. I will try to keep up, but I apologize that I don't have much to add right now so may only be popping in occasionally. And don't worry Reggie - I would never leave without saying "Goodbye" - it is because of you all that I stayed hooked on the show!

Zero

I've been MIA due to the horrible events of last week. Just haven't had the interest - though I miss ALL of you! (And I pray that you are all well!)
And don't worry Reggie - I would never leave without saying "Goodbye" - it is because of you all that I stayed hooked on the show!

Zero
Well, if it's any help, check out the Critics' Corner thread. We've a discussion on how Terrorism affects Entertainment. And hey, don't blame US for your being "hooked"!

yeah........
also in sexual healing, liz told her mum , or was it maria that she was changing, her bosy was changing, did this meant
sex,
hormones
emotions
max and
maturity taking place
that would allow her to have the flashes

was she changing becasue of the healing that madx did

Hello Uruz. If people don't respond to your comment as much as you'd hope, it may be because they addressed it earlier in this thread - before last Tuesday... There are those who agree with you while others say the poster says "SOME" aren't human...

Reggie, chin-up! Look at yourself after spoilers! The only time I've done spoilers, I too wanted to "see the pie coming" only to find out it was a key Lie pie...

Oh, and Steph, I kind of like the image of Max and Liz "bounding" ! -HH

Reggie, PMed you re: spoilers.

Oh, I'm not going anywhere yet. I'll keep hoping that it Hindenburgs around 3.6, and they call in the fans to pick up the pieces.

Remember:
This is your brain:

This is your brain on spoilers:
... S3 spoilers:

Any Questions?

OMG ANYONE that can save themselves from reading them do so!!

in fact i cos ive got to much to digest

I just finished re-watching season 1. OMG! Tess is such a manipulative b!+@%. Watching the end of S1 after all we know from S2 is very interesting. No wonder Harding didn't reveal himself and be directly helpful to the podsters right away. He probably was still figuring out how to carry out his deal with Kivar.

Also, I hate to say it, but the Tex in S2 could be real and I could really see how Max fell into her spell. When Tess first showed up she had some power over Max. I forgot how much Max was initially "drawn to her" even though he was totally in love with Liz. In S2, after Liz had pushed him away, Max lets himself be taken in by Tess's spell. After the mindwarps in S1 and the kiss in the rain, it actually isn't too surprising that she led him to Tex once he succumbed to her manipulation.

Liz forgave him before when he "cheated" on her in S1 (after the Tess-kiss) since it was, I guess, out of his control. From the promos it looks like she forgives him again. Don't get me wrong, Max is not blameless. It's just that the end of S2 actually fits better than I had rememberd to the end of S1.

OK, I'm completely spoiler-free and I tell ya.. this comment certainly doesn't put the warm fuzzies in my tummy. Are we really up for something so bad!?

Oh.. don't tell me.. I don't want to know!

OK, I won't. But there are at least two episodes (that I know of) where the main story is going to be quite good. So swallow hard, and sit tight.

u know how tess killed alex and the rest is history. what if the dupes, when they invaded her head tryin to find the location of the granolith...infected her, changed her to become evil and meet with their plans.

what if lonnie and rath had a deal to return tess with the granolith with max's child, if max wont deal get tess and the next royal generation to deal

Also, I hate to say it, but the Tex in S2 could be real and I could really see how Max fell into her spell. When Tess first showed up she had some power over Max. I forgot how much Max was initially "drawn to her" even though he was totally in love with Liz. In S2, after Liz had pushed him away, Max lets himself be taken in by Tess's spell. After the mindwarps in S1 and the kiss in the rain, it actually isn't too surprising that she led him to Tex once he succumbed to her manipulation....
DAH, I was never convinced that the Kiss wasn't a mindwarp on both Max & Liz, but I think you make a good case. In any event re: QueenAmidala01's post query: quote:Originally posted by QueenAmidala01:
i watched max in the city finally...........

u know how tess killed alex and the rest is history. what if the dupes, when they invaded her head tryin to find the location of the granolith...infected her, changed her to become evil and meet with their plans....
...I think DAH is correct that Tess was already bent on doing evil in Season 1. I think she almost got reformed by the Podsquad & Valentis, but it didn't stick. Maybe, though, the Dupes helped wipe out some of the reformed way of thinking.

GraceKel, good to "see" you, and thanks for reminding us that the pain of this deep wound to our land will take a long time to heal.
It makes me think of the OT verse about how if we will collectively 'repent of our wicked ways' (unlike Tess), then God will heal our Land. I do not think, however, that in real life (unlike in fiction) that those who suffer are generally the bad guys. Of course, we've seen Max & Liz suffer too. And I do think that in giving Tess a "good" side in ARCC, JK was more realistic as well.

Back to work now...

Roswell, I noticed a discrepency in the filming of the kiss in Departure: first they showed Max touch Liz on the left cheek but then when they cut to them kissing, his hand is on her right cheek so their hands make the V. It's an example of choppy editing, but perhaps you're correct that the V shape when they kiss is deliberate and significant. -HH

mmmmmmm we should rent all romance chic flicks and check this phenonoma out

do max and liz kiss in departure

Can we talk?????????

I realize you are saying that Liz is changed, and even I cannot dispute that anymore, but Liz is still not alien.... In fact, there are only really two episodes that talk about the changed status of the humans, MITC and TSAP. If this changed aspect was important, they wouldn't have been vague over the idea. I am hoping that they drop it. If anything, Isabel could be more responsible than she's letting on.

The placement of hands on someone's face when you kiss them is very intimate. To me, it shows there's a true connection.. a deep connection.. a deep sense of intimacy that is shared between Max and Liz everytime they kiss. I love these two together and fo course, I'd like to see all of this tie up in some pretty package and the "V formation" would fit nicely with our Venus Theory, but I just don't think it's relavent. Sowwy. But.. it does show how much they love each other.

My guess with Liz in the beautiful alien sseason 3 poster is that it's showing her as changed and/or they remember the uproar when only the 3 aliens were in the season 2 poster.

I would still like them to offer an explanation of how Max instantly fell in love with Liz in the third grade, or have them offer a past connection with Liz's family and the aliens.

But I'm just happy Liz is there.

I would still like them to offer an explanation of how Max instantly fell in love with Liz in the third grade, or have them offer a past connection with Liz's family and the aliens.

But I'm just happy Liz is there.
*****************************************

Nermal, I agree with everything you said here. I was unhappy last season when they only featured the aliens. Liz belongs front and center, and as it so happens, she's also extremely beautiful! -HH

I too think that it is great that Liz is included in the Season 3 poster - regardless of the "meaning" of it all. AND I would love it if we would get some explanation of "why?" Max was attracted to Liz from a very young age, on first sight, and there is a obvious connection there. BUT I'm not holding my breath.

I'm looking forward to the new season, though all the concern about the spoilers has me a bit worried. But I will wait to see how it all unfolds - and hope season 3 grabs me like season 1 did - and if it doesn't, well - I hate to say it, but I've gotten hooked on "Farscape" this summer, and will end up watching that instead. If you haven't, I highly recommend renting the Farscape DVD for it's pilot and episode one - talk about planning out a show - it is amazing, and the comments by the set designer are so fun. The attention to detail would make you all proud!

Well - off again - but I will be back soon!
Zero

Originally posted by Qfanny:
Can we talk?????????

I realize you are saying that Liz is changed, and even I cannot dispute that anymore, but Liz is still not alien.... In fact, there are only really two episodes that talk about the changed status of the humans, MITC and TSAP. If this changed aspect was important, they wouldn't have been vague over the idea. I am hoping that they drop it. If anything, Isabel could be more responsible than she's letting on.

I'm glad to see Qfanny has 'woken up,' and I do NOT mean the way Tess thought Max should 'wake up.' QF, I was wondering when you were going to respond!

Of course, I also agree with Zero--it's just good to see Liz on the poster. And I still think the key word is: "Some" in the the line "'Some' of the most beautiful people...." Liz is beautiful, but, remember:
is not an !

Hey, Zero, is there a video of Farscape that can be rented, or only DVD?

And tabascoLiz, you don't have to be a dreamer to post here, but it helps.

If by "Dreamers" you mean those who believe that Max and Liz should be together now & forever, then count me OUT.

Season one, yes. That was the premise of the show, after all! But in most of S2 Max is an ass, and Liz is weak & whiney. Neither of them is "good enough", for the greatness of the other. I'm a Tess fan (she was mindwarped in MitC, dad gummit!), and think she contributed most of the fun of S2. EdR should be in a comedy; she's funny!

And Liz is adorable, except when she's being spineless. After all that had happened, telling Max (when it's too late) that she'd "saved herself for him"? WHY? No wonder, Tess had to promise to help him "forget". Why was Liz mad at Max, again? <sigh> She put Max and Tess together; she should have been sadly proud that it worked, even though it cost her so much.

Tess is fun. Liz is adorable. Max is an ass. JK is a devil.

Roswell, I added this to my webpage about the V-Formation. Thanks!

Also, I found that the first V-Formation does appear in Balance, but not with the Cave Map. It appears in the sky in one of Michael's visions while he's sick. I describe it on my webpage too.

I got all excited to see the listings on the "Episodes" page of the Crashdown website. Almost there . . .

But when you put the world and others before yourself, I guess so.

Dreamguy here.

I am another who needs one answer. A young alien boy who from a distant notices a young human girl.

Style

"It's October 24, I'm Liz Parker and 5 days ago I died. But then the amazing thing happened.I came to life."
Roswell Forever

I really wanted to delve in to this during season 3. I must say that just looking at the intro, that it will be a major undertaking to get up to speed. I will have to take the topics one at a time. I should have started at the beginning of the summer and not a few weeks before the show starts. I will always be lagging behind with all the new info that will be presnting it self in the show.

Take Care,
Barry

Umm.. who exactly is isahore? You don't mean Isabelle, do you? While I believe Liz IS beautiful, I also believe Maria and Isabelle are beautiful - each in their own unique way..

Liz the strong, unconventional beautiful..
Iz the deep, steroetypical beautiful..
Maria the spunky, zaney beautiful.

Oh yeah.. and Max the I_want_his-body beautiful!

Just have to say I too disagree about the spineless part (in general)and that Liz and Max shouldn't be together. However, I do agree that Liz's reaction to the news of the pregnancy was a bit much. Of course, we can blame the writer's for that one. But, it just seems to me that she over reacted in a "strange" way. Why act like Max should be saving himself for her, when she's the one that kept shoving him away? Besides, she knows they aren't supposed to be together if Future Max was right and without Present Max even knowing about that, how could she blame Max for doing what she appeared to want him to do? Again, I say the writer's are to blame, I just can't figure out why they let Max find out the truth about Kyle before he found out why she's been acting the way she has? Just seems backwards to me. Not to mention that it all makes Max look a little stupid to not question Liz about her knowledge about the granolith in MITC and to not ask more questions when she blew up over the pregnancy in the finale. Max just doesn't seem to be very good at putting 2 and 2 together and just doesn't seem to question some things that one would think are important. Or maybe it's the writer's that can't put stuff together... Anyway, I am totally excited about the new season. Good or bad, it gives us lots to talk about.

You aren't implying there are.. CHADs are you?

ITA with GraceKel and kla - Liz = spineless? Hardly. The strength to walk away from the one you love just for the good of the world? The spirit to stay friends with your lost love and his "destined to be" wife? The pursuance of a justice/truth in a friends death even when EVERYONE you know is telling you they don't support you? Well, screams martyr to me, IMHO.

Of course, I also agree that the Liz reaction to the Tex doesn't exactly help me plea my case, but I have faith. Besides, she is a 17 year old high school girl in love - you can't expect her to be strong 100% of the time! I think she needs a little slack.. again, IMHO.

Don't know if this will explain it, maybe just a contribution.

My first thought when I read the first MM book was: Liz is Max's bond to earth like Isabel is his bond to his home planet.
While his parents represent protection and safety.
Besides Liz in the books is described like a real beauty, that's why he was attracted to her, and in more than one occasion he asks himself if he could ever leave her to go back to his planet.
Ciao. Elena.

i was just lookin' at the signs & symbols thread and i was just thinking was liz's handprint reserved because of max going into the 4D to heal her and change her.

rory_parker

----------------
Liz was changed by the and never will I deny it.

Sorry, I think these fumes are getting to me.

My first thought when I read the first MM book was: Liz is Max's bond to earth like Isabel is his bond to his home planet.
While his parents represent protection and safety.
Besides Liz in the books is described like a real beauty, that's why he was attracted to her, and in more than one occasion he asks himself if he could ever leave her to go back to his planet.
Ciao. Elena.

Liz is Max' bond to Earth. I like that, but in what way? Is there something inherently special about her? Why Liz and not any other girl in his class?

But when you put the world and others before yourself, I guess so.

Excuse me? Tess put her world (Twilo), and Max, before herself. Except for the last 10 minutes, Tess was as devoted to Max as Courtney was to Michael. (I still think she must have been mindwarped in MitC: she has nothing to gain, and everything to loose, from this "bargain".)

As for Liz, she was adorable. But if she was going to give Max to Tess, as she and FMax decided she must, then why was she still hanging around him? Breaking up with him every so often, without ever getting back together with him? She got him to take her to The Prom, for goodness sake... and broke up with him there! No wonder she wasn't his favorite human, during the Alex Files. She'd driven him insane!

A tougher Liz would have walked away, as she tried to do during the first episodes of the second season. She would have stayed away. She didn't. OK, she's only (whatever age she is; wasn't she 16 in the pilot?). And it was good for her to uncover what happened to Alex. But unless you're arguing that she should have known about all this in advance, it doesn't explain her hanging around Max; tantalizing him.

Liz is not only his tie to earth she IS his earth.

[*]A question now about hybrids and this not being able to "mate" thing....if a orginal species keeps being mixed with a hybrid wouldn't it inevitably start affecting its own DNA to the point of survival of the fittest taking the in the Hybrid better cells for its own evolution?!? Another question, if the aliens are f2 or f3 hybrids as they obviously look more human than the "aliens" seem to look then they could successfully mate with any species...?!?

Or so you think. Personally, I think she was plotting the entire time since the moment she came into Roswell. But.. guess we'll have to wait until S3 to find that out (or.. simply stick to our own conclusions without ever knowing the answer - Oh please let this not be the case ).

quote:As for Liz, she was adorable. But if she was going to give Max to Tess, as she and FMax decided she must, then why was she still hanging around him? Breaking up with him every so often, without ever getting back together with him? She got him to take her to The Prom, for goodness sake... and broke up with him there! No wonder she wasn't his favorite human, during the Alex Files. She'd driven him insane!

A tougher Liz would have walked away, as she tried to do during the first episodes of the second season. She would have stayed away. She didn't. OK, she's only (whatever age she is; wasn't she 16 in the pilot?). And it was good for her to uncover what happened to Alex. But unless you're arguing that she should have known about all this in advance, it doesn't explain her hanging around Max; tantalizing him.

Now.. have you ever been in love? Have you ever so badly wanted to be with that person but for whatever reason you can't? I have and I've managed to stay best friends with him despite the fact that we both love each other and can't be together. Do you know how HARD that is? Personally, I think it's a million times harder to stay and try and work at what you really want (a friendship and to share in each others lives) than it is to simply wash your hands of everything and walk/run away. I know I would never have had the strength to do that at 16.. heck, I barely have the strength to keep it going THESE days and I'm almost 27.

Of course.. as LA proved - Reggie and I don't exactly see eye-to-eye on everything. It's a good thing we're cool with that, huh?

I'm just as much a Dreamer as anyone, but I have to give T a BIT of slack. Even if she did WP Max into everything - that's how she was "raised". You have to remember, she's not human and was not brought up to be any part human (like Max/Mike/Iz were). She was taught to "fulfill her destinty" and probably at any cause.

I personally love that she's , but I don't think of her as a power hungry b*tch. I just don't think she was THAT (plus, I don't like giving her THAT much credit ).

*end rant*

ROTFL... I love that Max is her world . You're too funny girl!! Way to bluntly close THAT chapter I agree!

So, no one knows whether or not Silverhandprint is going to be maintained by UPN or have you already covered that subject and are just not telling me?

As for Liz, she was adorable. But if she was going to give Max to Tess, as she and FMax decided she must, then why was she still hanging around him? Breaking up with him every so often, without ever getting back together with him? She got him to take her to The Prom, for goodness sake... and broke up with him there! No wonder she wasn't his favorite human, during the Alex Files. She'd driven him insane!

A tougher Liz would have walked away, as she tried to do during the first episodes of the second season. She would have stayed away. She didn't. OK, she's only (whatever age she is; wasn't she 16 in the pilot?). And it was good for her to uncover what happened to Alex. But unless you're arguing that she should have known about all this in advance, it doesn't explain her hanging around Max; tantalizing him.

Reggie, apparently Tess did not put Max before herself. According to Departure, from the very beginning it was all an act because she had every intention of handing over the Royals to Kivar on a silver platter (to be served as dinner perhaps ). And with this bargain she does have something to gain. My guess is that the only reason Nasedo would have made such a bargain is if Kivar agreed to not harm Tess if she provided him with the heir and the Royals. Whether or not Kivar would have honored that bargain is yet to be seen. But Tess did not have reason to doubt him and therefore, she was, all along, simply saving her own a$$. However, if you believe that Tess was warped in MiTC, than all of this is mute.

As for Liz, I agree that her reaction to everything involving Max and Tess was very off balance. But isn't that the point? Liz is Max's balance and vice versa. Neither were acting themselves. I believe she would have been stronger if she was put in this situation with any other human or alien male. But she and Max are drawn to each other and she couldn't stay away.

Edited because I am a dunce!

Why a person is drawn to another? Who can explain it? Not even someone madly in love could. It just happens and it doesn’t lessen the magic of the choice.
Scientists tried to explain it with different types of hormones meeting, but it’s not stuff for dreamers.
Love makes you feel you belong to someone and to the place you are, and Max needed this and chose Liz. He decides that she is inherently special.
Ciao. Elena.

Elenac, what I was wondering is if the books explained it by any means that have been discussed here? Ancient race, physical diference in Liz, Liz is the true bride, etc. I'm guessing not because I'm sure that would have been brought up on this thread by now.

In EOTW--Liz says "so I guess Tess and Max are going to be together"

Max says "I don't know, its a whole new world now, the future is YET to be determined"

He didn't say Yes they HAVE to be together
This left Liz in LIMBO---not really together but not really apart, willing to give him up if she had to, but HOPING somehow things could work out for them. That to me is why it seemed like she was waivering back and forth---it was quite a struggle for her(afterall she is only human LOL) I honestly think when she asked Max to prom she hoped to rekindle things with Max(isn't that what Maria said at the blackboard?) but when Max admitted remembering his old life, and Tess well, this left her of course sad but yet trying to do the right thing--all the while hoping that somehow things in the long run would work out I think---this explains why she was still so JOLTED by the sex and pregnancy. And being that she is only human, she got angry at the thought that Max would leave with a killer on the loose after everything---yes after everything she still had hoped things would work out. At that moment she realized they wouldn't, it is natural to be a bit angry and bitter I think. Well thats my two cents.

In bringing the FMax situation up, I have a question. Why do you suppose Tess was so willing to give up on the bargain and leave town in the other timeline? Could this give credence to Reggie's belief that Tess was mindwarped in MitC? In the other timeline, I am assuming that Tess never would have gone to New York and never would have been mindwarped into thinking there was a bargain.

but when max healed Liz he gave her a part of himself,
e.i like a translant patient. There have been reports that people actually begin to like things that they never liked before becuase the donor liked them
also what im saying that max and liz have really cemented in a spiritual sort of way when they connected not only did max give liz a part of him but liz gave max a part of her.....which makes connection a lot more easier and or random, and gives liz some of max's powers

I try to keep an open mind, but when it comes to Liz Parker, in my opinion, she is the "glue" that keeps Roswell interesting.

Style

Of course.. as LA proved - Reggie and I don't exactly see eye-to-eye on everything. It's a good thing we're cool with that, huh?

Nice. Yes, I've been in love a few times. Even found a "soulmate", once. Yes, really: I didn't have to read her mind; I knew what should be in there, and it was ... (She found that unsettling.) And from that priviliged position, watched her fall in love with someone else. (At one point, I gave her "The Elfstones of Shannara", and her then-fiance` gave her the sequel. With no contact between us. ) But that guy she fell in love with betrayed her; the next guy got disengaged because his mother disapproved, and the third... raised my hackles. I've never gotten such a poisonous vibe from anyone. I also got no credit for sticking with her.

She disappeared on me shortly afterward: moved, left no address. I don't know what happened: she could have been killed, or be celebrating her twentieth anniversary soon. Her 40th birthday's 12/16, this year. I wonder if I should find her, and send a card...

Hmm? Oh, yes. I've been in love, but not able to do anything about it. It's a pain.

And sure, It's OK if we don't agree. To agree with someone on everything is almost impossible.

But she stayed with me, I don't know why.

I hurt her, and she told me.

My soulmate is gone, she went to heaven, and everyday I miss her.

The character of Liz Parker reminds me of her. I had something special, and did not realize it. Back to Max, I hope he does.

Liz Parker is special, this thread proves that.

Style

Style

It's been awhile. So I see we are defending our girl. Can I play.

GraceKel: Hi there my half crazed pod bud. You my friend said it all in your post. FMax gave Liz HOPE when he said YET.
Another thing, FMax never realized that just because Max fell out of love with Liz, Liz had no reason to fall out of love with Max.
Max came to Liz time and time again after EOTW. If I was Liz I would have thought that Max was falling in love with me once again or he never stopped.
He went to the Crashdown and stayed late too make sure she was safe, he came to her when he needed a friend on ARCC, he told her he believed in her. Isabel told Liz that if Max would hear anyone, it would be her, she then made a connection to him that proved to her that their love was still strong. I think what really convinced her was the dance on VLV. He begin to look at her as his soulmate once again.
Then Max suddenly makes a 1-80 and turns to Tess after recovering a few memories about his past. The rug was pulled out from under Liz's feet and she had every right to be angry on Departure. Hell yes she reminded Max about everything she had done for him, he sure as hell didn't remember a damn thing. I was just sorry she didn't punch him. I think he got off way to easy. Sorry as you can see I'm still a little angry.

Evid

I'm now reading the 7th book and, up to now, there's no reference to what we have been discussing here. In the books Max is not drawn to Liz at first sight like in the serie, actually Maria says that he had a crush for another girl in school before Liz. What you sense in the books is that Max is drawn to her little by little and discovers to be in love with her the very moment he heals her. He loves her because she is so different from him meaning: he is blond blue eyes, she is brunette dark eyes. He is shy and introverted, she is competitive and popular as much as Iz. And finally she is extraordinarely beautiful. The soulmate relationship is exactly the same.
Now you will ask what made me think of Liz being his bond to earth. He says that he was always eating at the CD because he needed more Liz time for himself, as to say if I’m around her I’m alive. He never told of let her understand his feelings and he was keeping their relationship on a “laboratory mates” basis. As I said, he needed to be around her.
Ciao. Elena

I don't think Tess gave up on the Kivar-Nascedo deal in the first timeline. I think she may have tried, but failed and waited longer. In that timeline, for some reason, she was willing (or had to) wait at least 14 years before trying again.

On another note, the stories of lost soulmate love are touching. I have a friend, although we don't talk much now, that I loved very deeply--although he never shared any reciprocal feelings other than friendship. When I told him how I felt, he said we "can't be together" much like Max and Liz. He was leaving for the other side of the world. All of this happened around the time when Roswell began and I immediately identified w/ Liz and her love and stress surrounding a serious, dark-haired, mystery man from an exotic place. Sigh.

In EOTW--Liz says "so I guess Tess and Max are going to be together"

Max says "I don't know, its a whole new world now, the future is YET to be determined"

He didn't say Yes they HAVE to be together
This left Liz in LIMBO---not really together but not really apart, willing to give him up if she had to, but HOPING somehow things could work out for them. That to me is why it seemed like she was waivering back and forth---it was quite a struggle for her(afterall she is only human LOL) I honestly think when she asked Max to prom she hoped to rekindle things with Max(isn't that what Maria said at the blackboard?) but when Max admitted remembering his old life, and Tess well, this left her of course sad but yet trying to do the right thing--all the while hoping that somehow things in the long run would work out I think---this explains why she was still so JOLTED by the sex and pregnancy. And being that she is only human, she got angry at the thought that Max would leave with a killer on the loose after everything---yes after everything she still had hoped things would work out. At that moment she realized they wouldn't, it is natural to be a bit angry and bitter I think. Well thats my two cents.

ITA!

Reggie: Sorry to hear that I didn't mean to bring up bad memories - just wanted to make a point about being in love and being strong, etc. If they had a hug smiley.. I'd *insert* it here.. instead..

Essence and Reggie--Tess mindwarped??? Well here is what I think--I believe the writers write things very open ended to allow them to take the story in any direction as they so choose, now I am personally not a Tess fan, I would much rather she turned out to be The Evil Shape Shifter myself lol but, I do think the writers leave themselves plenty of wiggle room so I suppose Tess could have been mindwarped or manipulated, it is a possibility, I will concede. In fact I think they have left themselves plenty of wiggle room in just about every hanging what we call chads LOL!!!

Were the visions the podsters and Liz were having coming to them on their own or were they forcefed, mommygram real or a manipulation? Did Kyle ever trim lamps with Tess or does he really feel brotherly, or was that a mindwarp? Everything they have done, has an escape hatch and I think this is deliberate, that way they can take it in a direction they so choose at a later time.

I think that Kyle really had feelings for Tess and that she warped him so that she could close ranks on Max. If he was only feeling brotherly, there were alot of unbrotherly vibes.

I think Liz was confused over her relationship with Max as it stood at the prom. It was obvious to her that Max and Tess were becoming closer. She was afraid of getting hurt further by trying to keep them together when he seemed to be experiencing something. Especially when Sean was offering something as a distraction. I believe she was attracted to him, also a bad boy, but could not see where it would go as she was still stuck with Max.

Based on what she said in Departure, I think she honestly thought that Tess would not measure up in the long run and that he would be with Liz. Thus the I saved myself line. She knew that Tess and he were together, but not that together.

Blah-blah-blah....

Why was young Max attracted to young Liz? To me, this is good science fiction. Davy

And regarding Future Max's statement about not knowing now what the future would be... that statement has always bothered me. If it was so important to keep Tess there, and just telling Present Max about the future situation wasn't good enough, then what possible other future could there be? Max would have to be with Tess, or risk the same scenario happening again. And as we now see, the same scenario really is possible with Tess completely out of the picture...

Sorry, but I just see this as an open-ended story line that leads to the same brick wall. So, I will go about my daily life happy just knowing that anything is possible in TV land and TPTB will find a way to make it work.

Ya know.. that's a good point. Seems like they don't KNOW a whole lot more than before EOTW and yet they've still "lost" T.

What exactly did they gain by going down the EOTW road? Alex died. T and Max slept together. Liz got hurt and there was MW'ing ALL over the place. Seems like they ARE worse off than before.

Oh, and GK, what has happened to your avatar? Do you need help with a new one?

Yes, things do seem worse off, but...
Max has ended up with a son who is heir to his throne. It seems likely that son's blood lines will forge an allegiance between two unlikely factions back on Antar... It's possible that the son is destined (prophesied?) to be a very great leader.

And, (Reggie, you'll like this...)as the mother of this future king, Tess may very likely turn out to be a force for good. Motherhood is probably her ultimate redemption if the story goes the way I think it will. She may be evil, but I bet if some third-party enemy tries to harm her child she and Max will unite to protect him, and Tess will end up a redeemed character, possibly even sacrificing herself to save the child. And, of course, Max and Liz still get to be star-crossed lovers!

Well, I'm obviously not spoiled; I have no idea what the real story line is!

Sometimes I think when Max saw Liz for the first time, he instinctively knew he met his salvation.

Like she is the one who can help them complete their mission, to save both Earth and Antar.

That still doesn't make sense because it seems in the other timeline Tess wasn't trying to mate with Max, those 14 years later, to produce an heir while delivering the Royals to Kivar. If she was working with Kivar in the other timeline it seems to me that Kivar and Co. were killing the Royals off one by one. Therefore, it seems that Tess was not honoring the original bargain with Kivar but (possibly) just working with Kivar to kill off M/Mi/I. Perhaps she struck a new bargain.

Essence

GraceKel I wasn't saying that I agree with Reggie that Tess was mindwarped, just that it might be a possibility. At this point I'm open to either argument: that Tess was just a manipulative Antarian or that she, herself was manipulated. Personally, I liked her with the Valentie family. I think Emile had a lot of chemistry with Nick and Bill and did a better job of acting with them. I was never much impressed with her acting in season one and the scenes she did with Max.

Essence

Nermal, I thought this too.

quote:Sometimes I think when Max saw Liz for the first time, he instinctively knew he met his salvation.

Like she is the one who can help them complete their mission, to save both Earth and Antar.

I like this explanation. It supports the thought that Liz is important, more so than Liz is Max's soulmate. While that is important, being the salvation of two worlds would be even more important.

Essence

Of course.. this requires me believing there actually IS a baby, which I still haven't voted on. Seems so odd that there would be 1 sex act and then *bah boom* child. *shrug* I dunno - maybe I'm just in denial, but I think I'm still holding out that the baby was a MW and that all of this never really happened.

For arguments sake, if the baby IS real I have to agree with nermal. There's a good possibility that this child won't bridge the gap between good and evil and Max and T, but rather grow up to be just as evil as the forces back on Antar.

Then again.. I'm a bit spoiled (someone just TOLD me something in LA when I didn't want to know, but it came out before I knew what was happening), so I wonder how the baby could be spoiled when so much will be going on on Earth. OK, that probably makes no sense if you aren't in my head, but I'll just *shoosh* since we have the No Spoilers policy here for the RBI!

The Calendar:

Vs. The Promo Pic:

I like the Calendar better, too.

Sometimes I think when Max saw Liz for the first time, he instinctively knew he met his salvation.

Like she is the one who can help them complete their mission, to save both Earth and Antar.

Nermal, that's what I think...he knew she was special the very first moment he saw her

Sometimes I think when Max saw Liz for the first time, he instinctively knew he met his salvation.

Like she is the one who can help them complete their mission, to save both Earth and Antar.

Hi guys...

I was playing catch up on this thread, and when I read this post, I had a thought occur to me.

Do any of you remember the movie The Terminator? The guy who came back in time to save the mother of their future leader who actually ended up being his father? Remember that storyline?

Well, how cool would it be if something like that happened on Roswell.

Khivar #1 was killed in the conflict, after the Royal 4 was sent down to earth. Lonnie and Rath and Nick etal. brainwashed Tess in the factory in MITC, and mindwarped her into carrying out this evil plan....

Tess and Max sleep together... Tess gets pregnant.. Somewhere on Antar, the same process where they cloned the alien's essence and mixed it with human DNA has happened with Khivar. The plan is for Tess to get pregnant by Max.. and use the baby to be the 'host' for Khivar's essence. You know mix his essence into that of the baby (because you know, there is human DNA in that baby since both Max and Tess are part human).

In any case, that would make Max Khivar's father. And since we don't know how time passes on Antar... Khivar can come back as another young person in Roswell -- and let the war begin. Very star wars esque.

In any case, I know that idea is very out there, but like I said, it popped into my head so I thought I would share it.

Hope you're all doing well and I hope that after S3 starts again I will be motivated to begin mything again!

{~}:}

It's not that far out there. There has to be a reason Khivar wants Max and Tess's child. One of those reasons could be that the child travels back in time and becomes Khivar. So Khivar makes a deal with Tess and Nasedo to create himself.

But then he'd be in love with Aunt Isabel.

Dunno if that'd fly.

I'd like it better if they'd use the time travel thing to bring back Alex for real.

Liz has that information about the other timeline. If only she'd share it in a meaningful way that isn't edited out.

Here's hoping Liz saves the pod squad again this season, and that the end result isn't too tragic.

Editing to tell nermal that great minds think a like and at the same time. You were just quicker at hitting the submit key.

Evid

{delurk}

I was just going to mention that nermal but you beat me to it. First of all, not denying it's probability (it sounds right up our writers alley, ahem... "you are my home"? Right), but I'm not entirely sure how creative/original that idea would be for the writers and it's an idea I don't particularly like. There's the blatant Arthur/Mordred comparison, Meta brought up The Terminator, there are others which are slipping my mind. Of course, creativity and originality aren't particularly the Roswriters' strong points. If Kivar (aka the ill-begotten fruit of Max's loins) goes after Vilandra aka Isabel aka Max's *sister*... you're stepping into some rather iffy (incestuous) territory there.

quote:I'd like it better if they'd use the time travel thing to bring back Alex for real.

Or make Alex the father of Tess's child (aka Kivar). Which would make the Vilondra/Kivar thing a bit more intriguing imo (if that's indeed the direction they're going this season, I don't know how they can't). Would the son carry part of Alex's "essence" (hey, a grossly ambiguous term, I can use it too! )? Which Isabel recognizes in a new (dangerous) stranger that wanders into her life? Perhaps Isabel might be able to resist Kivar... after all, she's not *really* Vilondra anymore... but would Isabel be able to resist a beloved's resurrected/inherited essence, particularly Alex's? Alex who would never hurt her... but Kivar who would - kill her in fact. It would be a very interesting dynamic. Isabel/Alex = innocent, sweet love. Vilondra/Kivar = forbidden passion, etc. The primary point, Isabel loved/loves them both. Making Kivar doubly hard to resist.

quote:Here's hoping Liz saves the pod squad again this season, and that the end result isn't too tragic...

Or CHAD-ridden... or stupid... or contrived... etc etc.

Melodious

Oh, that's OK. Those memories were "in use" anyway, and many of them are very happy. I suppose you know how it is. It's just that sometimes, you do need to walk away; for the other person's sake as well as your own, as Liz did after "Destiny". I hope you can find someone whom you can be in love with , not just love from a distance. (And you're right, we do need a :hug: smiley. Consider yourself hugged, anyway.)

GraceKel:
Well here is what I think--I believe the writers write things very open ended to allow them to take the story in any direction as they so choose... Everything they have done, has an escape hatch and I think this is deliberate, that way they can take it in a direction they so choose at a later time.

Yes, and doesn't that stink? You can't know what's going on, even when they seem to tell you. What a way to run a show...

kla, about loosing Tess, and will that bring on TEOTW anyway:
Sorry, but I just see this as an open-ended story line that leads to the same brick wall. So, I will go about my daily life happy just knowing that anything is possible in TV land and TPTB will find a way to make it work.

Or screw it up even worse. Remember, they got us into this mess...

Zara:
And, (Reggie, you'll like this...)as the mother of this future king, Tess may very likely turn out to be a force for good. Motherhood is probably her ultimate redemption if the story goes the way I think it will.

Usually, through history and fiction, the mother of a potentialy rival king gets killed. That way, she can't influence her child against the current king's wishes. So if Tess is carrying Max's heir, she's dead. If she isn't, she's dead again. (Kivar killed her before, remember!) Either way, for her to live, the others have to rescue her. Either that, or the Star Trek veterans make her out like Seska on Voyager: popping up at odd intervals with her child, to blackmail Chacothe (Max) for something or other. Blech.

tabascoliz:
yuppy yup...so we all agree, liz is one special girl?

Yup. The argument is over Tess's evilness, not Liz's goodness. At least, until S3 opens: I so don't like that promo.

Evid:
Meta: Hey nice to see the oldtime Mythers droping by. Two things bother me about your Kivar theroy, of course the obvious is that M/T would have had to do the deed. But even worse Kivar would be in love with his Aunt Iz and had a past love afair with her. No more incest vibes please. His daddy and auntie were bad enough.

Evid! Long time, no see! Welcome back!
Well, that would have been before he was cloned; his "essence" isn't related to them at all. Besides, that sort of thing went on in Royal families all the time. Egypt, for example.

Ah yes... but the story doesn't take place in Ancient Egypt now, does it? Nor does it take place in perhaps Europe in the middle ages ... it takes place in present-day United States of America. Granted, we've got alien royalty involved in this (and god knows what kind of morals these beings had/have. Tess, Rath, Lonnie, Nasedo, Nikolas... not exactly the paradigms of virtue). I'm not sure what the character of Isabel Evans would think if she suddenly discovered she was "keeping the bloodlines pure" per se (even if there is no blood involved, which still remains to be seen... it's not about the genetics, it never was. It would be her brother's progeny, whatever way it's presented). That would just get *messy*. I'm not even going to wander into the potential Max/Isabel scariness that could come from that (as a wise woman once said, icky icky poo). Not so much for the character... the audience would be either cringing in their seats with that uncomfortable/sick feeling twisting in their stomachs or flipping the channel.

I could almost see the SMALLVILLE ads now if such a storyline was explored ... "Watch Smallville, no incest here!!" Roswell is going to have a difficult time alone duking it out with the aforementioned and Fox's "24" to be risking the (once) loyal audience with storylines like the above.

Melodious

Reggie: Thanks for the warm welcome back. I've been very spoiled this summer and have avoided posting here because of it.
Mel pretty much answered your post for me. Americans of this day and age will never warm up to this type of storyline.
We are a melting pot and we like it that way. Inbreeding leads to insanity and birth defects plus it's just icky. And who wants to follow the Egyptians lead anyway, they must have been insane.

Evid

This is a possibility I suppose... but unfortunately, we've got that little issue of "history repeating itself" in Roswell. Do I really think if Kivar does show up in this storyline he *won't* go after Vilondra again? Imo, I doubt it. I think the guy is going to make a beeline for Isabel... because I do think that was one of the ways he felt he could get at the uberpowerful Royals. Which was more than likely successful in one lifetime (and if it ain't broke, don't fix it).

I don't think it's a stretch for me to believe the Bride was also involved in some sort of treachery (in both lifetimes - but the treachery possibly only revealed in the Earth lifetime, hence a reason for EOTW, barring the contrived/antagonizing). Due to the "history repeating itself" factor and due to something Brody/Larek said ("It's a shame to see history repeating itself" MITC) and Nikolas ("Luckily for me, you continue to put your faith in the wrong people", WO). I do feel this conclusion can be drawn post-Departure. I concur with GraceKel in that I believe TPTB leave "wiggle room" for themselves to do as they please in the storyline (if they change their fickle minds). After the events of DEP, I think it's more likely than ever that "the Bride" can and very well be deemed bad news from the start... even if that wasn't their original intent (I don't know how it couldn't have been. I still very clearly remember Tess's nastiness when she first came on the scene ... which brought her character, more or less, full circle [the best it could anyway with with the choppiness of S2] by DEP).

Even though I still don't understand how or why we're going to have a season 3 if "arch nemesis" Kivar has everything he wants already (unless it's Vilondra he's still after, which is arguable considering he loved her so much he killed her in another lifetime). How much of a season is it going to be when Kivar can simply swoop in and turn the podsters into boxed lunches without breaking a sweat (If Niko can do it, no doubt Kivar could too)? Three dead hybrids isn't going to leave much of an "alien" connection in this story (even if I can't stand most of the podsters 98% of the time). Admittedly, however, I wouldn't mind the focus centering on the humans perhaps A LITTLE, especially after the travesty of Season 2. All hybrids all the time got a tad grating... particularly when you wanted to smack all of them upside the head (repeatedly... and HARD). Maybe with the exception of Michael, who seemed to be the only hybrid left somewhat unscathed by the steamroller of the (character demolishing) S2 storylines. Even though he wasn't acting entirely in character - at least I didn't want to maim him by the end.

Melodious

What needs to happen now is a big huge apology from Max to Liz. Or better yet, a sudden realization of how clueless he is with interpersonal relationships. In a time of crisis, he knows what to do. He does lead effectively. That is even true in Michael's dream (VLV). But Max's inability to relate to people has caused the worse scenerios for the gang. Perhaps he doesn't feel free to be charsimatic. But, god, I hope season three will portray a better, more interesting Max for Liz's sake and the sake of all.

I hate the Stepford Max chronicles! As usual, the best thing about Roswell is Liz.

Nermal--Liz is Max's salvation, I like that very much!!!

Metaphysicalgrl--long time no post, good to see you back here, now where is STARBOX?????

Mel--hard to break away isn't it???LOL!!!

Reggie--yes ITA it does stink--COMMIT TO A STORY DAMMIT!!!LOL Well I can see them leaving some things open ended but they do this a little too much for my tastes as well.

Nermal,Mel, Qfanny, I agree they could pull something like this with Kivar but I don't think I would like this one bit.

[b]Melodious1 I highly respect your posts and your bright, bright mind and its really interesting you brought up the issue of "history repeating itself" but it obviously does. By coincidence I actually caught a rerun of Roswell here in a channel which I didn't even know was showing it (its legit I think )...anyways couple of things showed up which I don't believe had been discussed before (I'm sorry if it was just let me know I don't remember reading it).

This may sound insanely positive but I think Alex was the good shapeshifter. I think he was Nascedo when he crawled/fell into Max's window right before he died and told Max "their among you now" re the skins he meant it literally thruTess. maybe she's the other shapeshifter it is obvious realNascedo could have taught her this an she never show it. It also could explain why
Alex couldn't be healed because he wasn't in his own body at the time?!?
Nascedo either
Tess was Leanna OR Alex was being shafeshifted as her so he could easily find his way thru the school
He's appearing thru Isabel's dreams
"Everything has to be a lie"
He had access to the book
Tess killed him
Whittaker was flashed back and forth between Tess's mindwarp (I think she was FTess)

This also caught my attention right when he he told Liz "I know you said hings couldn't go back to the way they were" and when he touches her after she says "I know" and she gets the flash. Michael also told Maria after she says "I miss you" and that there are soo many movies where the girl is waiting for the solider back home fits in nicelt to the idea maybe he instictively knew he wouldn't leave from his parallel future self (I know BIG stretch but hey !). When Max goes to sleep right before 'Nascedo' comes in he cals out Michael...maybe he IS literally the "good" Nascedo shapeshifted. Maybe that was Max and Michael where doing talking in the park.

-----
Why not start with fingerprinted world recorded social securities and kill the numbered only Swiss bank accounts. What they got to hide anyways they're already rich?

The post in question is here (on W. Sadler's board), 30 Sept., 1:01 am: http://www.williamsadler.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000392&p=2

This may sound insanely positive but I think Alex was the good shapeshifter. I think he was Nascedo when he crawled/fell into Max's window right before he died and told Max "their among you now" re the skins he meant it literally thruTess. maybe she's the other shapeshifter it is obvious realNascedo could have taught her this an she never show it. It also could explain why
Alex couldn't be healed because he wasn't in his own body at the time?!?
Nascedo either
Tess was Leanna OR Alex was being shafeshifted as her so he could easily find his way thru the school
He's appearing thru Isabel's dreams
"Everything has to be a lie"
He had access to the book
Tess killed him
Whittaker was flashed back and forth between Tess's mindwarp (I think she was FTess)

This also caught my attention right when he he told Liz "I know you said hings couldn't go back to the way they were" and when he touches her after she says "I know" and she gets the flash. Michael also told Maria after she says "I miss you" and that there are soo many movies where the girl is waiting for the solider back home fits in nicelt to the idea maybe he instictively knew he wouldn't leave from his parallel future self (I know BIG stretch but hey !). When Max goes to sleep right before 'Nascedo' comes in he cals out Michael...maybe he IS literally the "good" Nascedo shapeshifted. Maybe that was Max and Michael where doing talking in the park.

-----
Why not start with fingerprinted world recorded social securities and kill the numbered only Swiss bank accounts. What they got to hide anyways they're already rich?

Are u saying that alex wasnt the alex that we love and know that died.........as in a shapeshifter posing as alex and he was he one that died

another thing about this healing thing max couldnt heal nesado because it was his fate that he dies and his body gave up

in ARCC max healed all of those kids..he was using a gift that was meant to help people cos why would he have it in the first place

therefore in my opinion he wasnt playing god or whatever other forces exist

In my opinion what was destined for those children was to have cancer but to be healed by max
If those children werent meant to survive with the cancer max wouldnt have been able to heal them in the first place

quote:Originally posted by Redngreenmnms20:
~ShaPeShiFter~
Thank you so much for the link to that story. I loved the end of The Importance Of Being Elizabeth. I cried when I read it. It was so good. The other story on there, The Consequences of Truth, is not finished yet, but highly recomended. I like it already and it only has the prolouge and Part one written. This chick is a famtastic writer. She is truly amazing to say the least! I hope that she writes more stories in the future. You should all read it if you already havent.

R&GM&M, WR is a guy, not a chick. And, not surprisingly, this sensitive author is a devoted husband & father.

Qfanny, I just looked at the VLV transcript to see what you meant about Michael's dream, and it's weird reading it in the post-Sept. 11 light, don't you think?
quote:Max and Michael are running in the dark, through the halls at school. They hide behind some lockers.
MAX: I think we lost them.
MICHAEL: Are you sure? (Nervous)
MAX: Not really
MICHAEL: Where's Isabel?
MAX: She's gone, Michael. Now pull it together or we're gonna to be next.
MICHAEL: Okay, okay, what - what do they want from us?
MAX: We need a plan. We can't fly by the seat of our pants anymore.
MICHAEL: (nervous) They gotta want something. Maybe we can talk to them.
MAX: It's time to step it up. Face the demon. No more hiding.
MICHAEL: What are you talking about?
He turns around to look for them and when he turns back Max is gone
MICHAEL: Max! Maxwell?
We see people dressed like the S.W.A.T team, pointing guns at Michael, he's really scared
MICHAEL: No, please, no!
They start shooting at him, and he wakes up, gasping for air, touching his chest to check on the bullet holes. He realizes it was just a dream and gets out of bed, goes into the kitchen, and smashes the refrigerator. He then grabs a paper bag and pulls out the money he got from the Duprees.I remember now thinking that the dream was Michael seeing what would have happened if Liz hadn't "changed" the future with her sacrifice.

What exactly did they gain by going down the EOTW road? Alex died. T and Max slept together. Liz got hurt and there was MW'ing ALL over the place. Seems like they ARE worse off than before.

There is also supposedly a Max baby. So, the future was changed significantly.

What exactly did they gain by going down the EOTW road?

Well, they did learn Tess was apparently working out some 50 yr old deal Nasedo had made, something which presumedly wasn't known by the group in the alt. EOTW timeline. That's at least... something. Of course there's the Spawn too ... if it exists at all that is or is everything it seems/ed. With the kind of motife Tess was left by the end of S2 (Alex's user/killer, was betraying them all along, etc), I could question the reliability of the Spawn storyline and the writers intentions with it (enter "wiggle room" factor here... it could go in any direction).

quote: Alex died.

He would have died anyway, I remember Future Liz's words, "Max, if you don't do this, we're gonna die. Everyone will. Max, you have to do this. You have to try it". I and others have speculated before that Alex possibly died in a similar fashion in the alt. timeline or the very same way (by Tess's hands). That some things in this timeline are happening without much deviance from the other (just with slight variation - Alex's death came earlier, Tess leaving, etc)... up until the point Tess left in the *manner* she did (unmasked) and Max stayed beside Liz anyway (with the full knowledge of what Tess was and did).

You're probably screaming "But there's the Spawn" at me... but honestly, one could speculate that Tess got pregnant in that other timeline as well... possibly with Max's progeny (by different means than this one)... or by someone else. Who's to say Tess didn't leave Roswell pregnant in that alt. timeline? Note how Kyle and Tess *would have* lamp-trimmed had Liz not interrupted them. If the same things are happening in this timeline as it did in the other (as I said, prior Tess's *second* departure - which I do feel was the turning point and purpose of EOTW)... then Kyle/Tess quite possibly lamptrimmed in this lifetime too, just at a different time. Maybe perhaps after ARCC and christmas dinner... or maybe perhaps after the "You are my favorite martian" moment? Prior the rather startling *brotherly* Kyle revelation.

quote:T and Max slept together.

That I fear we will never get around. Unless of course there was mindwarped involved, and I doubt there was... unfortunately.

quote:Liz got hurt and there was MW'ing ALL over the place.

Who's to say there wasn't "mindwarping all over the place" in the other timeline too?

quote:Seems like they ARE worse off than before.

The war was going to hit one way or another... perhaps with the traitor unmasked (and at least a bit of knowledge with what the archnemesis wanted/wants)... those inept podsters will have at least somewhat of an advantage, at least more than they had the last lifetime (arguably).

I'm not excusing the travesty the latter part of Season 2... however, imo, I do think it says something rather amusing, Liz and Max were together for fourteen years before the tragic end (of the world)?. Max and Tess were together for a few days and that would have killed Max, Michael, Isabel and delivered Tess's child right into Kivar's hands... to what end? Earth's salvation? I seriously doubt it. How many sci-fi stories do you read where the evil all-powerful antagonist of the story stumbles upon Earth... and let's it go unscathed and goes along his/her merry, evil way? Not too many. Had Kivar's plan succeeded... imo, the world would have ended anyway, just sooner.

Melodious

"Max and Michael are running in the dark, through the halls at school. They hide behind some lockers.
MAX: I think we lost them.
MICHAEL: Are you sure? (Nervous)
MAX: Not really
MICHAEL: Where's Isabel?
MAX: She's gone, Michael. Now pull it together or we're gonna to be next.
MICHAEL: Okay, okay, what - what do they want from us?
MAX: We need a plan. We can't fly by the seat of our pants anymore.
MICHAEL: (nervous) They gotta want something. Maybe we can talk to them.
MAX: It's time to step it up. Face the demon. No more hiding.
MICHAEL: What are you talking about?
He turns around to look for them and when he turns back Max is gone
MICHAEL: Max! Maxwell?
We see people dressed like the S.W.A.T team, pointing guns at Michael, he's really scared
MICHAEL: No, please, no!
They start shooting at him"

Tess has always thought of Max as her husband; why not kiss him? And, after all, who wouldn't want to kiss such an atractive face? (Ladies and gentlemen, take your pick... )

And that scene looks more like the way Roswell would be canceled, if some fans had their way.

If I swayed towards that persuasion... I'd kiss Emilie... but I wouldn't kiss Tess. I'd be too afraid to get my lips caught on a fang.

ahem.

Unless of course, you're talking about Max. Perhaps Max of mid season 1 and earlier... but latter S1 Max? Not so much. He was starting to show the signs of Stepford Max... who I didn't find particularly attractive, at all. A pretty face doesn't mean a whole lot when there isn't anything behind it... or what's behind it is far uglier than any handsome mask can hide.

Melodious

Its THAT the truth .

quote:
{Alex} would have died anyway, I remember Future Liz's words, "Max, if you don't do this, we're gonna die. Everyone will. Max, you have to do this. You have to try it". I and others have speculated before that Alex possibly died in a similar fashion in the alt. timeline or the very same way (by Tess's hands). That some things in this timeline are happening without much deviance from the other (just with slight variation - Alex's death came earlier, Tess leaving, etc)... up until the point Tess left in the *manner* she did (unmasked) and Max stayed beside Liz anyway (with the full knowledge of what Tess was and did).

Hehehe I was gonna try to just post one line back but the entire post is good . Sorry guys to make it soo long.

quote:Melodious1:
You're probably screaming "But there's the Spawn" at me... but honestly, one could speculate that Tess got pregnant in that other timeline as well... possibly with Max's progeny (by different means than this one)... or by someone else. Who's to say Tess didn't leave Roswell pregnant in that alt. timeline? Note how Kyle and Tess *would have* lamp-trimmed had Liz not interrupted them. If the same things are happening in this timeline as it did in the other (as I said, prior Tess's *second* departure - which I do feel was the turning point and purpose of EOTW)... then Kyle/Tess quite possibly lamptrimmed in this lifetime too, just at a different time. Maybe perhaps after ARCC and christmas dinner... or maybe perhaps after the "You are my favorite martian" moment? ( ) Prior the rather startling *brotherly* Kyle revelation.

Yeah or after prom!!!!

quote:Originally posted by QueenAmidala01:

Are u saying that alex wasnt the alex that we love and know that died.........as in a shapeshifter posing as alex and he was he one that died

No way I think he was their protector and just never told them that he was the good shapeshifter so the aliens who where trying to harm the royal four wouldn't know was protecting them does that make any sense?!? I'm saying Alex was more good than we originally thought and more important to the alien squad.

quote:
another thing about this healing thing max couldnt heal nesado because it was his fate that he dies and his body gave up

Yes ofcourse I think it was possibly just his fate was up but Alex's wasn't supposed to die yet in the orginial timeline, member so I think Max just can't heal a body if the soul or "energy" is whirlpooling around shapeshifting. Can't heal a person who's soul itsn't there. The member Nascedo (I dunno how to spell it my bad) had something metal melted in his heart like a weird cadmium X handprint. I think Alex shapeshifted into Nascedo possibly to try and to Max's without Tess seeing him to warn him that Tess isn't good. He may have been helping Tess decode the book and he might have been Leanna shapeshifted to get around. I also think he could possibly be the guy who went in to tell maria and Liz he had seen Alex around to help them in their search. I think that Alex's soul wasn't in his body because he was shapeshifting.So "Leanna is not Leanna", it might have been him. One head in the picture see why he might have chopped off the other head.............?

quote:
If those children werent meant to survive with the cancer max wouldnt have been able to heal them in the first place

I'm not saying Max wasn't able to heal children. None of those kids where shapeshifting I think LOL.

gracekel I think that FTess went into Whittaker see how it flahsed back between tess and Whittaker liek 'noticing" something is up, maybe Tess went in as Whittaker to let the alien be caught so the skins could get them. I think Tess was the Skin queen back on her planet so perhaps when Alex realized she wasn't good from decoding the book or whatever seh had to stop him form telling the gang because then it would foil her plans of getting Max to bed w/her. The only thing I can't piece in is the trianlge red bomb thing and the computer place. Obviously some alien something was up around there.

The Max& Michael thing I mean I think that right after they fix the cadmium x thing and Max goes outside that is the present future and when he tells her that he knows she said things can't go back to the way they where and she Max I can't pretend and he says I know and touches her and she sees the flashes of them kissing etc. then next scene Max lays in his bed (you know when he lays without his shirt on the bed) there is like a "time cut" right before Nascedo walks in that was FMax leaving and the Present Max blends back to his timeline.

what if there is some way to return the granolith to earth and max goes back into time to SO47 and switch ava's pod to be with them.......oh bother wait a second Liz has to do it, because max and the others will see themselves

anyway Ava knows that Zan was waiting for another love so Max and Liz can still end up together without distroying the chain of the royal 4
I believe that ava would be born with max and izzy and Micheal therfore nesado wouldnt be the one to take her

what world is the child gonna save .....if he is going to save a world i reckon it could be earth
think about this the royal 4 are human hybrids...why this planet was chosen we dont know but they sent the 4 here maybe because humans dont know the exsistance of e.ts therefore neither antarian or skin have human Allies to help fight their enemies

now in 2014 the earth was being destroyed by the skins becasue tess left

present day tess left but this time she is pregnant with max's child. This child becasue concieved on earth and being a hybrid itself...(if the baby isnt sick at all and was all a trick to get tess off this planet)is the protector or embassador for earth. Therefore any desicion made by kivar to invade earth is stopped.

He could, and did, give the order. The interceptors were on the way... but didn't get there in time.

OTOH, Max could give unwelcome orders, and take over from Kivar. The BEMlet, as an infant or as a child raised by Kivar, would be uninterested in overthrowing Kivar.
OT3H, why doesn't Kivar have his own heir? It's been sixty years, fer goodness' sake!

maybe they dont have viagra on antar

I am back and anxiously awaiting Oct 9 and the start of S3. No spoilers for me I want to see it first.

Here's my .02 on the timeline changes. In the other timeline Max and Liz cemented their relationship. I doubt that they payed any attention to Whitakers death and thus they wouldn't have gone to Copper Summit. Therefore, the skins would have had their harvest and our podsters wouldn't have met Nic. There probably wouldn't have been a WO. IMO in the other timeline, Tess left and eventually ended up with the skins and Nic. Zan, Rath, Vilondra and Ava never met the NM podsters, Zan was never killed and the NY summit never occured or if it did, NY Zan was found to be a fraud. Max and Liz became inseperatable and probably oblivious to what was happening around them. Tess saw this and let the anger build inside her into a very deep bitterness which turned to hatred and then left Roswell. Later she meets up with the skins and Nic and she provides Nic with the location of the podsters and the granolith and uses Max and Liz's oblivion to her advantage. However, due to TEOTW timeline change, now the podsters know about the skins, Nic, Rath, Vilondra, Ava, Kivar, and even Brody. They went to Copper Summit and destroyed the harvest, there was WO, there was a NY summit with the real king, and now they know the truth about Tess. Sure some things seemed to be changed in a bad way, but we don't know that for sure. The writers can always use that wiggle factor. Ultimately, I think the podsters are in a much better position than in the other timeline because they are more knowledgeable about what they are up against.

Anyway, that's my .02.

It was you.............................

Soo true !

quote:Reggie:
OT3H, why doesn't Kivar have his own heir? It's been sixty years, fer goodness' sake!

Maybe he's a hybrid too in one of those phases where they cannot reproduce?!? Infertile?

ahem.

quote:Originally posted by Reggie:
why doesn't Kivar have his own heir? It's been sixty years, fer goodness' sake!

I think, to me, this will be the pivotal moment in S3. WHY did Khivar need Max's child? What's the draw there? I can see maybe wanting "a child" - maybe healersbabe is on to something and they can't reproduce up there on Antar for some reason - but that doesn't explain why he wanted Max's child. Let's hope they explain this one and not just leave us hanging for another 21 eppy's.

I orginally thought maybe it has something to do with the Khivar/Vilondra thing and the Vilondra betraying Zan thing and the fact that Max and Iz are siblimgs, but.. that wouldn't make sense because this deal was supposedly made 50 years ago or whatever. So.. back to the drawing board.

I've been goon for some time, and it is great to come back and see so many regulars back and posting!! And such a lively discussion going on!

Also - welcome to all newbies!!

Steph - thanks for posting the calendar cover - a much better group shot than the one released! Liz and Max up front!

I'm looking forward to the new season with great expectations!! and look forward to our lively discussions! Til then -

Zero
PS - Did anyone watched "Alias" last night? It was great fun! And Mel - I'm totally hooked on Farscape - all your fault!
PSS - Shapeshifter - thanks for keeping this thread going all Summer!!

I'm tellin' ya, Kivar doesn't need the kid. He needs Tess, so he can kill her. Ditto the others. Killing the kid would demoralize Max's followers that much more, so it's not bad; but it's surplus. He mostly just wants them all dead, dead, dead.

Besides, it's possible there is no kid. It could just have been an excuse to get them to go home with Tess. And anything from Tess to the contrary is just the effects of the mindwarp WE ALL SAW in MitC. BTW, where do you think all the other little Twilonians come from?

I'm not kissing Max. No way, no how, don't even think of it. Tess, sure.

Hi Zero!

I watched Alias last night! Actually, I started out watching Law & Order: CI, but that wasn't as good as Alias, so I switched over completely by the end. Looks like that might be a must see for me this Fall (I watch the Practice afterwards, so why not, right? ).

OK, then why not "make a deal with T" where she kills all the Pod Squad and returns home? She could have easily found out where the Granolith was, MW'd Alex, killed the 3 Podsters in their sleep and zoomed off to Antar where death was knocking at her naive door.

Or would you you explain it by saying Khivar wanted to do it himself!?

Well, yes. Isn't that what Nikolas was saying in MitC: a show trial, and a public execution? It's not as effective, against Max's followers on Twilo, to just announce that King Max & Co. were killed out of sight. The point of a public execution is the public, not the execution.

My guess is that Kivar will keep Tess locked up, until he has the complete set; then execute them all. Possibly use her or the BEMlet as a hostage, etc. The usual Fiendish Plan...

Amen to that!!!

Essence

then again guys what if the child isnt max's what use will it be to kivar

It was you.............................

I think without the change in timeline FMAX knew that there were dupes

Just watch EOTW again at the part where max saw liz and kyle together and liz was then talking to Fmax for the last time she was saying this quote when Fmax had a strange look on his face like he knew something that liz didnt

LIZ" Dont u realise what u are to me....and you're always gonna be. You're the love of my life everyone else is gonna be second. there'll never be a seond you
then the scene turns to FMax

at that point u know that fMax was hiding something just by lookin at his facial expressions

I'm not sure, just dive in.

Reg, when reading your theory, I keep remembering Courtney's line: "Trust me, nobody's after Tess." This would imply that she is on Kvar's side. Maybe "Uncle Kvar"?
And I think Mel has a point: Emily is a nice girl, but Tess had a habit of growing fangs.

Not necessarily. She's always been biddable; that is, she does others' bidding. A Yes-man, a pawn of someone else, a loyal follower. No one would be after her, because they'd be after the leader, not the followers. And when, besides the last ten minutes of Departure from Sense, did Tess "grow fangs"?

One of the beautiful things about our lives and therefore lives in SF is that we don't know the future. We only get to work with what we are at the time. Unanswered questions can be annoying but also make life worth living and a show worth watching (IMHO anyways ) EOTW wan't pointless. Perhaps it didn't give the answers you were expecting. It definitely made Liz and Max who they are now and, like them or hate them, think they were written badly or well, I think (and this is just my thoughts) that JK likes the fact that people are only what they are; a contradiction of weakness and strength, of wisdom and stupidity. The future always starts with that.

Reggie I believe by biological deduction I'll have to say either when she was born, after she develped or possibly later induced by some weird being pregnancy mutation ...

mezz, awesome post. ITA. Too bad the folks in the WTC didn't have a chance to change things. It's not the same trying to pick up the pieces after the end of a world as it is having a chance to prevent it from happening. I think the whole point of TEOTW plot line and following was trying to point out that we probably wouldn't do it any better if we had a chance to do it over again. At least it sure looks that way on screen and off.