Forums 4 Fans: Liz' importance to the Alien Mythology - thread #54 (Roswell (1))





Posted 11-01-2001 02:06 PM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Welcome to the Table of Contents to the Introduction to the 54th
Thread :grin: of the continuing discussion of "Liz's Importance to
the Alien Mythology."
The Introduction became so long, Shapeshifter graciously agreed to
host it on a website. Below is the Table of Contents to the Intro
with links! Hopefully, this will continue to make this Thread
accessible to everyone interested in Liz's Importance to the Alien
Mythology. The Intro includes summaries of all our past discussions
through the end of Season 2, so is well worth reading if you are NEW
to our thread! The Intro has only been up-dated to reflect
observations, clues, discussions and theories through Departure and
the end of Season 2, and it may be a while before more is added -
unless we get something super significant from Season 3. (All of our
observations from Seasons 1&2 added to our belief in Liz's strength,
the Hero's Journey she is on and importance of Liz to the aliens -
whether they know and appreciate it or not!) The revised Intro has a
few tweaks to be made for "smiley faces" to be added, but all the
"words" are there! So, HAVE FUN reading the Intro, and hopefully, it
will refresh your memory about a specific topic or a specific date
that causes you to think up some new theory! The links make that
much easier! (THANK YOU Shapeshifter!) Major changes are "starred"
for ease of reading if you don't want to read the entire thing!
There is never a dull moment on this Thread! We appreciated the
refocus during the end of Season 2 on Liz's importance to the
storyline! (Thank you JK and RM! ) :grin: Even though Heart of
Mine, Cry Your Name, It's Too Late & It's Too Bad, Baby It's You,
Off The Menu and Departure (which I collectively refer to as the
"Stepford Max" Chronicles in the Intro) had many inducing scenes,
we were provided tons of stuff to chat about and dissect! !! Plus -
we had so many newbies joining into the discussion last summer -
which was wonderful!
Feedback is always welcome! :grin: Just PM me.
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Background
Basic Thesis
Just a reminder - Our basic thesis is that LIZ IS AN IMPORTANT AND
ESSENTIAL ELEMENT TO THE ALIEN MYTHOLOGY!
What is Subject for Discussion?
Liz's importance to the Pod Squad - and the survival of the human
race for that matter - and theories concerning the beings -
especially Max - and mysteries swirling around Liz - are what we
discuss. So - feel free to join on in, or just lurk! And don't worry
about going off on a tangent - they ALL tend to lead back to Liz's
importance! (Especially lately!) We are an optimistic and friendly -
though seriously anal retentive - group! So - dive in, and join
the fun!! But remember - NO SPOILERS! We want everyone to feel
welcome!
Liz is Important - The Liz/Max Connection
Consequence of the Connection - the Change?
Origin of the Connection - Where is Liz from, really?
Granolith - How does it fit in?
Destiny - Liz and Max!
Follow Your Heart
Symbolism - WE Do Not Ignore Anything!
Chakras
Einstein's Light Cone
Chariots of Fire - Liz's Necklace in VLV
The "Bride" - will the real one please stand up!
The Books - WHY Doesn't anyone read these things?
The Catalyst - Liz!
Vision Quest - How does Liz fit in?
Time Travel - "Run, Lola, Run"
Hero Journey - Liz's Path
Grandma Claudia - the first connection?
Lifebonds vs. Soulmates
Sheila Hubble - Eerie resemblance to Liz! - What's the connection?
Venus - Liz's mythical connection to the stars!
Numbers - It all adds up to Liz and Max!
Cave Map Symbols - All signs lead to Liz?
Yin/Yang - Liz/Max
Skins - What lies below the surface?
Shapeshifters - Are there more than one?
Horray!! We got a second shapeshifter with the introduction of the
(evil??) Cal Langley, producer extraordinaire, in Hollywood! But is
he Tic Tac?? Class is still out on that one, but Cal was in Roswell
in 1959 - the year Atherton was killed, and we know that Cal is a
killer - though his killing method seems to be slightly different
(and more intense) than Harding's and how Atherton was killed. Time
will tell how Cal fits in, but obviously he has been "watching" for
a while!
Handholding - the symbol of the V constellation
Mythology!
Dates
Dates seem to be of extreme interest to those on this thread. So,
follow the link to a rundown of dates as I've been able to gather
them from episodes, official sites and factual research. If you find
a date I've missed or see one that is wrong - PM me with the change
and where you got your information! I'm always looking for new
dates!
New ones yet to be added:
1959 - "They are Among Us" is filmed in Roswell, and the lead
actress is "fried" by Cal Langley (Secrets & Lies)
9/24/2000 - Valenti stops visiting his dad (Secrets & Lies)
Fall 2001 - Max and Liz commit armed robbery in search for the
"ship" (Busted)
10/31/2001 - Valenti visits his dad, and Max discovers a second
shapeshifter - Cal Langley (Secrets & Lies)
In Summary
Finally, (I always have to add this - if anyone from the production
staff, crew or UPN reads this or the Intro), WE ALL AGREE THAT THE
LIZ/MAX CONNECTION IS CRITICAL TO THE SHOW, AND THAT TOGETHER MAX
AND LIZ MAKE AN INCREDIBLE FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!! Even Ron
Moore stated in the commentary for Ask Not that the "Max and Liz
relationship is so strong and so central to the entire series!"
To have the opportunity for a Season 3 on UPN is WONDERFUL, and this
show has the potential to be another "X-files" with intimate
relationships IF done right!
A couple of general Thread "Rules" - NO SPOILERS (even asides about
spoilers are not allowed), but anything "aired" is subject to
discussion, including coming attractions/preview and things on the
Silverhandprint site. Pictures are welcome, as is deleted dialog
from posted scripts of shows that have been aired and commentary by
writers/producers. If you know what a preview "really means" due to
spoilers, please DON'T tell us - let us speculate - we will find out
soon enough! And discussion of the books is now okay - though you
might hold some stuff back for those of us who still have to read
them! Thanks!
As Alex - true and loyal friend to Liz whose life ended too soon -
said - "Gripa det dagen" (seize the day)! Liz found the TRUTH, and
will avenge his death! (Tess - beware - you have no idea what you
have released in the B*#@h!)
Zero
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 958



Posted 11-01-2001 02:24 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan



Zero, you have outdone yourself with the Intro!
Here's Liz with the red flames she keeps lighting:

Can't find a cap of the Evan's kitchen with red-globed
lights--Reggie?
But here's one of the dead starlet who looks a LOT like Topolsky
whose body was never found!

Sorry I had the wrong image links.
And here is our Liz with a Native American rug with Diamond pattern
(granolith? spaceship key?) behind her, which seems like an
otherwise odd choice of prop for a nursing home that was supposed to
be dismal.
[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ]
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2524



Posted 11-01-2001 03:17 PM (IP Logged)
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StephStephSteph
Obsessed Fan


New thread!? Does that mean I have to bring my thoughts over here!?
Oh.. I guess so..
--------------------
Steph
RBI~Dreamer~Behrian
*Behrian Boogie Diva*
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 1832



Posted 11-01-2001 03:51 PM (IP Logged)
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PHENYLALANINE
Part-Time Fan


Wow. you guys really put alot of work into all this.
--------------------
"Now,now my good man, this is no time to be making enemies."
-Voltaire, on his deathbed, in response to a priest asking him to
renounce satan.
Joined: Sep 2001 | Posts: 52



Posted 11-01-2001 06:48 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan



quote:
Originally posted by StephStephSteph:
New thread!? Does that mean I have to bring my thoughts over
here!?
Oh.. I guess so..
Steph, or go to Thread 53 on the archive. It should load fast.
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2524



Posted 11-01-2001 07:21 PM (IP Logged)
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nermal
Addicted Fan

I liked S&L when Liz not only discovers the truth about the SS but
gets Kyle to act on the truth that his grandfather was right and
needs his son to visit.
The true power in the truth is knowing what to do with it.
Joined: Jan 00 | Posts: 1258



Posted 11-01-2001 09:22 PM (IP Logged)
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Vihmakass
Dedicated Fan

one funny thing (little OT maybe, sry)
S1 credits:

and

Does this same person on thous pic's?
Yes, i know this is silly but....
S2 credits is 1pic but 2pic is gone.
S3 credits is 1pic

------------------------
and about blue pics in credits:
S1 - only Tess (who mostly feel she is alien)
S2 - Isabel,Max (who has alien-experiences in s2),Tess
S3 - All R4 (does Michael get some alien-experiences ?)
This is only spec - not spoiler!!!!!
--------------------------
pic's from CrashDown and theDDD
[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: Vihmakass ]
--------------------
Why I want say : look, the King is naked!
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 267



Posted 11-01-2001 09:54 PM (IP Logged)
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QueenAmidala01
Obsessed Fan


quote:
Originally posted by Vihmakass:
one funny thing (little OT maybe, sry)
S1 credits:

and

Does this same person on thous pic's?
Yes, i know this is silly but....
S2 credits is 1pic but 2pic is gone.
S3 credits is 1pic

------------------------
and about blue pics in credits:
S1 - only Tess (who mostly feel she is alien)
S2 - Isabel,Max (who has alien-experiences in s2),Tess
S3 - All R4 (does Michael get some alien-experiences ?)
This is only spec - not spoiler!!!!!
--------------------------
pic's from CrashDown and theDDD
[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: Vihmakass ]
heyyyyyyyy look at the first two pics........blue toning for
max......then yellow toning for liz. the blue and yellow even
occured in season 1
and look at pic 3 blue and yellow again
[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: QueenAmidala01 ]
--------------------
"When humans want rides they take Jetta's.
When tess want a ride she takes her tractor
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 1900



Posted 11-01-2001 10:06 PM (IP Logged)
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Vihmakass
Dedicated Fan

and to Shapeshifter red (or evil/danger/trouble)pics:


---------------
VLV - Michael's nightmare.
--------------------
Why I want say : look, the King is naked!
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 267



Posted 11-01-2001 10:13 PM (IP Logged)
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Etoiline
Part-Time Fan


I continue to be amazed by this thread. You put so much effort into
it! Ha. I like to joke about how much I love Roswell but this thread
really puts me in my place. I do wonder though how y'all have time
to do all this researching! It's like writing a paper, and I would
never have enough time to do fun research like this. Keep up the
good work, and let's keep believing in Liz's importance!
luv, Etoiline
--------------------
. . . not like I love you . . .
aspire to the stars
Joined: Jan 2001 | Posts: 90



Posted 11-01-2001 11:37 PM (IP Logged)
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Donna2001
Dedicated Fan

Well...I haven't posted in a loooong time! But this episode is
certainly worth a post on the RBI thread.
I'm very happy for all of you that believed in the 2nd SS (me
included) but I'm not quite convinced that he's Tic Tac. I always
thought that Tic Tac was friendly and the new SS is....well, not. My
theory is that the new SS is in kahoots (however you spell that...)
with the skins. First there's that oh-so-skinlike parking ticket and
second of all, we already know that Nasedo made deals with Kivar so
why couldn't the 2nd SS have? Also, all the skins came to earth in
1950 and they could've brought the 2nd SS along with them since he
didn't start causing trouble until '59.
ITA that the whole long coat thing in regards to the alien we saw in
Blind Date can't be a coincidence either. I tried to get some screen
shots but it's really hard to see anything but a really dark figure
with a long coat in either epi.
BTW...did it bug anyone else that there didn't seem to be much
build-up to the arrival of the 2nd SS? It all seemed a little sudden
to me but I'm not complaining...we need some good evil alien
plotlines.
I'll have to watch the epi for a second time so I can contribute
some more thoughts. Until then...keep up the great work!
[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: Donna2001 ]
--------------------
~Donna~
"If it isn't complicated he probably isn't a soulmate."
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 108



Posted 11-02-2001 04:46 AM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Crazy Fan


I have to go to work so this is a rather flyby post for
now---Shapeshifter I believe the sign said LEARNING ZONE---I
remember it heavily being featured in Season1 mostly when Topolsky
was on.
I thought it was great to finally be tapping into Valenti Sr
mystery--finding out the TRUTh no matter how UNCOMFORTABLE--breaking
the cycle of silence indeed. It seems as though Jim Valenti Jr is
almost completely going the path of Valenti Sr--he is also acting
very strange????
In Leaving Normal--Kyle rents Video--the name escapes me now but its
about a SERIAL KILLER who hones in on a retirment community--now Liz
is calling this new ss a serial killer--and we spent a great deal of
time at a retirement facility---the SUNRISE--could have some double
meaning there I guess too.
The fact that Max made a point to say he saw it with his own eyes
Nasedo's death--hmmmmm--maybe Mindwarped eyes??????LOL!!!! I could
vote for this!!!!
More later
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2132



Posted 11-02-2001 07:12 AM (IP Logged)
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StephStephSteph
Obsessed Fan


quote:
Originally posted by Donna2001:
I'm very happy for all of you that believed in the 2nd SS (me
included) but I'm not quite convinced that he's Tic Tac. I always
thought that Tic Tac was friendly and the new SS is....well, not.
My theory is that the new SS is in kahoots (however you spell
that...) with the skins. First there's that oh-so-skinlike parking
ticket and second of all, we already know that Nasedo made deals
with Kivar so why couldn't the 2nd SS have? Also, all the skins
came to earth in 1950 and they could've brought the 2nd SS along
with them since he didn't start causing trouble until '59.
ITA! I was wondering (on the previous thread) why the note that Cal
wrote to Max disintegrated like a "skin"!? IMHO, Cal is a SS, but
not "the" SS (i.e. Tic-Tac) that we've all been hoping for.
Of course.. I could be wrong. It's possible. I'm wrong every once in
a while.. sometimes.
As a side note, I LOVE Kyle. When S1 started I was iffy on the whole
jock thing, but after S2 he seems to get progressively better in my
eyes. Just thought I'd share.
[ 11-02-2001: Message edited by: StephStephSteph ]
--------------------
Steph
RBI~Dreamer~Behrian
*Behrian Boogie Diva*
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 1832



Posted 11-02-2001 12:21 PM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Hi All - and welcome back to all of you joining us again!
I just wanted to post my comments/questions that I raised at the end
of the last thread!
I too am so excited that there is a second SS, but I will hold off
believing that he is Tic Tac. First off, Tic Tac killed Hank (Mikey
G's foster father) in a different way than Cal kills. And I still
like to think there is someone out there watching over (in a good
way) the podsters. I guess it is my love of stories like Harry
Potter or Star Wars where there is that older figure full of wisdom
watching over our "heros." Plus, I think there could be many SSs out
there. Think about it - we know that the government knew of 4 aliens
- 2 dead (though maybe revivable), 1 captured and 1 escaped. But
others had to have visited Earth earlier than the '47 crash based on
Grampa Dupree's notes and the need to harvest human DNA to
experiment with. (Of course, I believe they have been visiting for
thousands of years, and that Antarians could have originally
originated from Earth - but that is another theory! ) SO - Cal
could have come at one of many times to Earth - and coming with the
Skins is (opps - got side-tracked by work - ) a definite
posibility!! SO - my questions:
1. How long has Cal been on Earth?
2. Was he responsible for Atherton's death - which also occurred in
1959!
3. What is his relationship to the Dupes?
4. What is his relationship to the Skins?
5. What was his relationship to Harding?
6. Did he ever meet River Dog??
SOOOO many more - but have to go!
Zero
FAN!
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 958



Posted 11-02-2001 12:31 PM (IP Logged)
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Alexis
Addicted Fan

Also, in terms of Cal being Tic Tac I don't think so. Tic Tac killed
Hank, but Hank wasn't charred like the rest, so their killing styles
are much different. Besides, Tic Tac was VERY protective of the Pod
Squad so I don't think he would just leave the Podsters to follow a
career in Hollywood.
Quote by Gracekel
The fact that Max made a point to say he saw it with his own eyes
Nasedo's death--hmmmmm--maybe Mindwarped eyes??????LOL!!!! I could
vote for this!!!!
I was actually thinking this same thing when he said "I saw it with
my own eyes."
StephStephSteph-I love Kyle too! Nick is a great actor and has quite
a range! I can hardly wait for his lines because he executes them so
well!
Someone on the RATDG website brought up a great point about Liz: why
has she been aggressive with Kyle, but not with Max?
--------------------
Sweet Dreams make for blissfull sleep
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Posted 11-02-2001 01:15 PM (IP Logged)
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StephStephSteph
Obsessed Fan


OK, maybe it's because it's Friday.. or because I'm very tired .. or
because I have too many things running around in a very tiny head ,
but.. how did Tic-Tac kill Hank again?
And remember the photo of.. hmmm.. I believe, Atherton (the pic in
Sheriff Valenti's file)? That hand print doesn't seem to resemble
anything like the way Cal kills. Heck, he doesn't even leave burn
marks.
--------------------
Steph
RBI~Dreamer~Behrian
*Behrian Boogie Diva*
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 1832



Posted 11-02-2001 02:16 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan



Steph, good point that we do not see Hank killed. A witness heard
screams like someone being tortured, as I recall. Then we see a
definite body being pulled from the trunk--a whole, recognizable,
unscorched body. Then there's the now defunct Season 1 WB Primer
which attributes the murder to "Nasedo" :
quote:
...In the end, we see Michael's foster father shape shifting into
someone else. We come to realize the fourth alien, Nasedo, had
killed Michael's foster father after he learned of the beating....
This bit from the Primer is interesting because it does attribute a
"TicTac" quality to "Nasedo" in that he killed Hank to protect
Michael from abuse. I suspect, however, that the writer of the
Primer might not have been a "scary" fan and didn't recall that
Michael admits to having been beaten before. Also, Hank is killed
immediately after witnessing Michael's powers, apparently for the
first time as he exclaims that Michael is a 'freak' and that he'd
(Hank) always known it [but never witnessed it]. This is why I still
think Hank (and Atherton and the Starlet and Joey) were killed
because they knew too much. Recall also Nasedo's comment about
wanting to kill everyone who knew about Cadmium X.
[ 11-02-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ]
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Posted 11-02-2001 02:44 PM (IP Logged)
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StephStephSteph
Obsessed Fan


quote:
Originally posted by shapeshifter:
This is why I still think Hank (and Atherton and the Starlet and
Joey) were killed because they knew too much. Recall also Nasedo's
comment about wanting to kill everyone who knew about Cadmium X.
I agree that I think these people were all killed because they knew
too much, but I don't think they were all killed by the same SS
(Sorry, can't tell if you do or not ).
Type 1: Tic-Tac - Hank's killed and brought out in a body bag with
the SS popping a Tic-Tac.
Type 2: Nacedo - The silverhand print that I attribute to Nacedo's
way of killing (from the inside?). Never see him popping a Tic-Tac.
Type 3: Cal - The affect. I was wondering when this smiley would
come in handy.
1... 2... 3. That makes 3 SS's in my eyes and we've now been
introduced to 2. Could Serena be the 3rd? Wouldn't it be cool if the
3rd SS were FEMALE!
--------------------
Steph
RBI~Dreamer~Behrian
*Behrian Boogie Diva*
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 1832



Posted 11-02-2001 05:39 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan



Steph, that icon certainly describes Cal's method of murder. Did
you notice how Liz was lighting her candles with a heavy duty
lighter everytime we saw her on the phone with Max? It seems like
deliberate direction, but I can't quite make the connection.
Anyway, back to the discussion of #s of shapeshifters. I recall
Harding/Maxcedo eating cotton candy right after he turned into Scary
Clown. I think that they decided to cut the TicTac routine after a
few eps because either:
1. It took too much precious screen time
2. They were worried about a law suit from TicTacs
3. Whichever writer was fond of TicTacs left the stable
So then, I am thinking Nasedo & TicTac are the same. But maybe Cal &
Margolis are the same too.
Also, Topolsky did allegedly die in a fire, and she did know too
much.
About a female shapeshifter, (GraceKel, cover your eyes while I
dredge up one of my ol' theories once again ) I thought that Tess
was made from the essence of a female shapeshifter who died in the
crash or at the hands of the special unit.
Edited to add:
Some Season 2 Theories are finally posted.
[ 11-02-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ]
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2524



Posted 11-02-2001 11:22 PM (IP Logged)
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mezz
Dedicated Fan

Hmm lets see if i can put my thoughts together....
Max asks Michael in ID if he had ever been beaten before and Michael
replied that he had never left a mark before. Michael wouldn't have
hated Henk so much if he hadn't had physical attacks regularly I
don't think.
Everyone assumed that Ed Harding was Nascedo but where is the
evidence? I was always surprised that Tess referred to Ed as Nascedo
when talking to Max in M2TM. Doesn't the conversation go something
like...
Max: We always knew there was someone out there we just always
thought it was Nascedo.
(look from Tess)
Max: So you do know him.
Tess: He was there when I came out of the pod.
But did she just slip into Max's language or did she call him that
too? Did she call him that because it was simplest for the script or
did she always call him that from birth? River Dog said that he
called him Nascedo because that's what visitor meant in his language
but would that mean that Ed would say to Tess "I am Nascedo".
Wouldn't he just say I am your protector or something?
So what's my point? Good question I think we can't be sure that Ed
killed Atherton or is the same alien that River Dog new. I think the
writers perhaps just wanted us to jump to that conclusion and so had
everyone else jump to that conclusion. Ed was never as nice as the
Dr at Buckley Point or as nice as an alien who found that Michael
was getting beat up and so killed a man. (Cause I don't think Henk
was a threat and new too much. Unless he was a special undercover
agent from the FBI or another bad alien undercover or.... )
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 110



Posted 11-03-2001 04:29 PM (IP Logged)
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Vihmakass
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally posted by mezz:
Everyone assumed that Ed Harding was Nascedo but where is the
evidence? I was always surprised that Tess referred to Ed as
Nascedo when talking to Max in M2TM. Doesn't the conversation go
something like...
Max: We always knew there was someone out there we just always
thought it was Nascedo.
(look from Tess)
Max: So you do know him.
Tess: He was there when I came out of the pod.
But did she just slip into Max's language or did she call him that
too? Did she call him that because it was simplest for the script
or did she always call him that from birth? River Dog said that he
called him Nascedo because that's what visitor meant in his
language but would that mean that Ed would say to Tess "I am
Nascedo". Wouldn't he just say I am your protector or something?
So what's my point? Good question I think we can't be sure that
Ed killed Atherton or is the same alien that River Dog new. I
think the writers perhaps just wanted us to jump to that
conclusion and so had everyone else jump to that conclusion.
Hi!
I jump to this conclusion after Destiny.
Quote:
ISABEL: I'm sorry. It looks like he's dead.
TESS: He's not dead. He can't die.
LIZ: Tess, what do you mean he can't die.
TESS: He said that if this ever happened, that we had the power to
bring him back.
ALEX: How?
TESS: He told me to find this Indian called Riverdog. He has these
stones.
ISABEL: The healing stones.
TESS: You know about them?
MARIA: Yeah, we already have them
-------------------------------------
...to me this is evidence ...
--------------------
Why I want say : look, the King is naked!
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 267



Posted 11-03-2001 05:07 PM (IP Logged)
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QueenAmidala01
Obsessed Fan


quote:
Originally posted by Vihmakass:
Hi!
I jump to this conclusion after Destiny.
Quote:
ISABEL: I'm sorry. It looks like he's dead.
TESS: He's not dead. He can't die.
LIZ: Tess, what do you mean he can't die.
TESS: He said that if this ever happened, that we had the power to
bring him back.
ALEX: How?
TESS: He told me to find this Indian called Riverdog. He has these
stones.
ISABEL: The healing stones.
TESS: You know about them?
MARIA: Yeah, we already have them
-------------------------------------
...to me this is evidence ...
what if riverdog is the other protector........remember in into the
woods when riverdog broke his ankle while trying to find the cave
with micheal........
micheal told him to heal himself
into the woods transcripts
MICHEAL: why dont u fix it
RD: what
M: your ankle
RD: what r u talkin about
M: why dont u tell me the truth
RD: the truth about what
M: about who u r
RD: u think im nesado
then micheal starts talking about how RD knew how to take care of
him while he was sick knew about them etc
RD im sorry micheal but im not ur father
riverdog didnt say he wasnt nesado or or any other alien....he just
said he wasnt his father as micheal was so hoping
--------------------
"When humans want rides they take Jetta's.
When tess want a ride she takes her tractor
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 1900



Posted 11-03-2001 05:16 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan



Vihamakass, I'm not sure why you have bold for this line:
quote:
TESS: He told me to find this Indian called Riverdog. He has these
stones.
I remember after Destiny aired we debated about whether or not Tess
had caused the stones not to heal Nasedo, or if they didn't work
because Liz was not there.
I would speculate that Cal killed Nasedo if Congresswoman Whitakker
had not confessed to the crime.
Remembering Nasedo disolving into dust makes me think that Cal's
note to Max might have been a hint as to what would happen to Max if
he didn't stay away.
**************************
See Archive for: Season 2 Theories
[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ]
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2524



Posted 11-03-2001 06:11 PM (IP Logged)
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mezz
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally posted by Vihmakass:
Hi!
I jump to this conclusion after Destiny.
Quote:
TESS: He told me to find this Indian called Riverdog. He has these
stones.
-------------------------------------
...to me this is evidence ...
Ah yes, forgot about that little line. Small detail
So have you come up with an answer to this one yet?.... I was
watching the beginning of S2 and you know how there is this funny
vision of someone watching. Well we assume that the skins have the
funny vision. Could it be the SS? As far as I remember it is when
1. Mike is at the recovery of Pierce dig.
2. Ed is at the car before he is attacked.
3. Max is at school.
4. Liz and Maria arriving in Roswell in Wipeout.
It didn't happen in Surprise. Any reason? Were we just always
watching from the outside?
It did disappear after wipeout when we thought that the skins were
dead but Nic didn't die so maybe the skins aren't dead. Maybe only
some of them are, or maybe Nic has extra protection because of his
status. He doesn't seem to be as desperate in MITC as he was in
Wipeout. We never saw Ed looking at anything so matbe he sees
differently also after all he is not a hybrid.
Queen Amidala - I don't think RD would be accepted as a leader of
his tribe if he hadn't been born there. He talked about being a boy
and unknowing when Nacedo was there as though he had been a part of
the tribe since birth. I suppose he could just be covering but....
But then why did that Indian lady tell Liz to stay away from RD?
Perhaps there is something strange about his past and he has been
accepted but is still feared.
[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: mezz ]
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 110



Posted 11-03-2001 07:11 PM (IP Logged)
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Vihmakass
Dedicated Fan

In CWW diary she wrote (from silverhandprint) that she saw somebody
with Max and this person migh be shapeshifter and she has strong
doubts about Pierce behaviors.
In Surprise she is very busy and no time to lurk and you can heard
this creepy sound when she come in trough the door in that
factory(or what this is). Then Iz killed her and we never saw that
weird lurker again.
(this is my theory)
Nic and his miracle of incarnation.
Do you remember - Tess was with podsters in that Skintown and she
knows about Granolithe(where it is).
Like we know skins need this thing to survive (and honestly - i dont
know why if this G. was only a little spaceship ,ok,this storyline
is chad ).
My theory to that why they come to Roswell is: not only capturing R4
but get a cure from Granolithe. To detain R4 come to Granolithe the
skins are make a little time play.What i mean - they wasnt even
there when they was there (they was in two places in same time(for
us same time,if you remember what Courtny try explane)- in
podchamber where G.was and in Roswell.)
This something where/what Tess was tapped, this something powerfull,
this was Nic's tie to Granolithe, when she trying extend to Nic mind
bc he in Roswell was now only decoy, real cured he was at
Granolithe.Why he survived? He was already cured,this fire was
destroing only shadow of him and other skins who not been cured yet
and was still in Roswell reality.This is reason for Nic comment to
Tess in MITC - she was reason breaking skins tie to G. and what
Maria was doing(with that green thing) - was forceing her action.
She was so scared - i think she was only trying break this Nic's
power what holds them.
And she truely didn't know what really happened or knows and didn't
want tell to Max.
-------------------
This is only one possibility for this. Hey, this is Roswell - land
of......
---------------------
And this time(WO) that creepy lurker is Nic, real Nic (without skin,
they can survive withou skin ounly little time or at night) not that
decoy created by him.
-------------------
sry.gram.,spell.
[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: Vihmakass ]
--------------------
Why I want say : look, the King is naked!
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 267



Posted 11-03-2001 07:34 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan



Vihmakass, that's a very interesting idea! I don't recall anyone
else ever suggesting that Nicholas was cured by the Granolith.
I always thought that the Granolith would "cure" the Skins by taking
them back to Antar. But it didn't seem to even have enough room for
the R4!
It is interesting to think of what would have happened if Courtney
had blasted away in the Granolith. Maybe Tess would have decided
Kyle was "a great guy?"
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2524



Posted 11-03-2001 07:42 PM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Loyal Fan

Hi, RBI's. I rewatched Michael & the Guys, looking for that SOS
display behind Isabel in the convenience store, that someone pointed
out earlier. (So far I haven't found it; maybe I had the wrong
episode.) What I noticed instead (behind Isabel and Jessie about
when Kyle enters) is some boxes, apparently cases of beer, in stacks
of four. I couldn't make out all the names, but one of the brands
looked like Labatt's, which is Canadian. (A gesture to Brendan?) One
of the cases had the distinctive XX logo of the Mexican brand Dos
Equis, which I suspect is Spanish for two horses [edited to say no,
it's Spanish for two X's, according to aldebaran, below]. I never
know how much of this is mere coincidence, but here again we have a
set of four things where one of them has something twofold about it.
(As if to remind us of Changed Liz, now with two sides to her
nature?). Also, if anyone can recognize the last case that I
couldn't identify (the one on top, looks like it starts with S), it
would be interesting if that one too is an imported brand (the
better to symbolize aliens?).
Similarly, on rewatching Four Square (S1), I noticed in the science
lab where Max and Liz are viewing star charts on the computer:
there's a row of five potted plants along the far wall, one of them
has a twofold shape, the others are single, and the camera angle
places that bifurcated one next to Liz for most of the time. Only a
small thing, but it keeps happening....
[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: Nemo ]
Joined: Dec 99 | Posts: 989



Posted 11-03-2001 08:53 PM (IP Logged)
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healersbabe
Addicted Fan


quote:
Originally posted by Vihmakass:
ALEX: How?
TESS: He told me to find this Indian called Riverdog. He has these
stones.
ISABEL: The healing stones.
TESS: You know about them?
MARIA: Yeah, we already have them
-------------------------------------
...to me this is evidence ...
Vih are you trying to say the base body for the other shapeshifter
is RiverDog?!?! Because I found this to support your theory:
quote:
LIZ: Oh. Yes, it is really lovely. But I was actually...looking
for something like this. I was just wondering if you've seen this
symbol before or if you know what it means.
PEDDLER: It means "tree of knowledge."
LIZ: Really?
PEDDLER: Actually, I have no idea what it means, but it looks old.
LIZ: Right. Yeah. Do you know what...
(A hand reaches out and grabs Liz's arm. The hand belongs to a
native american named River Dog whose eyes are drawn to the
necklace that Liz is showing the peddler)
LIZ: Who was that?
PEDDLER: Stay away from him.
And I love your sigline !!!hehehe probably for a different reason it
just gives me a nice thought

ANYWAYS, this super duper new car Max has can someone who knows more
about cars tell me if it has the "SS" initials in front of the car
or is that 65? Maybe Max was right and the previous car owner
was...no wait you think Riverdog can drive?
And this is from Summer of '47
quote:
MAN: Hal!
HAL: 509th, Carver.
JESSE: Is this line secure?
HAL: Far as I know.
JESSE: There's been a crash.
HAL: What? Who?
JESSE: Don't know, but it's definitely not one of ours.
(Opening credits)
Other than the obvious they used the same name there, a JESSE...
this was Michael as Hal in 1947 who was talking. So when he said its
not one of "OURS" are we supposed to be led to believe he might be
the same type of alien? Maybe he's their protector?
[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: healersbabe ]
--------------------
"Max?" He opened his eyes and saw the hunger in her eyes. "Again?"
She nodded and bit her lip...
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 1058



Posted 11-03-2001 09:30 PM (IP Logged)
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aldebaran
Addicted Fan

Nemo, I believe that "Dos Equis" means two Xs.
--------------------
"Talking about love is like dancing about architecture"
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 1287



Posted 11-03-2001 09:53 PM (IP Logged)
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Vihmakass
Dedicated Fan

healersbabe!
Sry. but this was theory: Nasedo maybe = Ed Harding.
----------------------------------------------------
And i glad you like my sig. - it is my firs and has many meanings -
like Roswell still has many possibilties if they have one child who
has (and i don't mean SPOT)innocent mind...but your is not bad at
all if they do that rigt .

----------------------------------------------------
and about SS at Max car:
It is Chevy ChevelleSS454 convertible.
Why they pic that car with thous SS? Does this has any meaning?
[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: Vihmakass ]
--------------------
Why I want say : look, the King is naked!
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 267



Posted 11-03-2001 10:15 PM (IP Logged)
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mezz
Dedicated Fan

Whoops Cancel that
[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: mezz ]
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 110



Posted 11-03-2001 10:22 PM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Loyal Fan

aldebaran, thanks for the correction. That explains the connection
with the XX logo.
Joined: Dec 99 | Posts: 989



Posted 11-03-2001 10:37 PM (IP Logged)
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Vihmakass
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally posted by Nemo:
aldebaran, thanks for the correction. That explains the connection
with the XX logo.
Wow! If we take this XX logo like symbol....
....Dupes & Royal4...?
-------------------------------------------------
ok, i know - im today very annoying - honestly im stoping here.
--------------------
Why I want say : look, the King is naked!
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 267



Posted 11-03-2001 10:40 PM (IP Logged)
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QueenAmidala01
Obsessed Fan


quote:
Originally posted by mezz:
Queen Amidala - I don't think RD would be accepted as a leader of
his tribe if he hadn't been born there. He talked about being a
boy and unknowing when Nacedo was there as though he had been a
part of the tribe since birth. I suppose he could just be covering
but.... But then why did that Indian lady tell Liz to stay away
from RD? Perhaps there is something strange about his past and he
has been accepted but is still feared.
[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: mezz ]
what if the other true protector wasnt an alien but a human
--------------------
"When humans want rides they take Jetta's.
When tess want a ride she takes her tractor
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 1900



Posted 11-04-2001 12:47 AM (IP Logged)
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healersbabe
Addicted Fan


quote:
Originally posted by Vihmakass:
many possibilties if they have one child who has (and i don't mean
SPOT)innocent mind...but your is not bad at all if they do that
rigt .

----------------------------------------------------
and about SS at Max car:
It is Chevy ChevelleSS454 convertible.
Why they pic that car with thous SS? Does this has any meaning?
WOW you just realized that I have a new found love of that car if it
does mean something and thats why they picked it for the SS !! And
teehee I know your sigline has many cool meanings but it just makes
me giggle ...hehehe!!! LUV IT!
And come to think of it your Ed Harding might be right on !!
Ofcourse!! !!!!!!
Speaking about Spot...this was sort of an accident but they where
saying that alien pregnancies last one month and I was sorta kidding
around and said thats probably why the aliens don't have a proper
brain formation when it hit me that may very well be why Tess was
having problems with it IF it was in fact making her sick, even if
it was a lie I was thinking thats probably why they have super
powers as humans!!!! Humans have a more evolved brain organ maybe
they can use their little ones to its full (extent--dont laugh )
but when you add their powers into a full blown nine month brain
they have like 3000% more power....
quote:
Originally posted by Nemo:
Similarly, on rewatching Four Square (S1), I noticed in the
science lab where Max and Liz are viewing star charts on the
computer: there's a row of five potted plants along the far wall,
one of them has a twofold shape, the others are single, and the
camera angle places that bifurcated one next to Liz for most of
the time. Only a small thing, but it keeps happening....
Ohhh yeah! I member that too. Good catch I dunno how that ties yet
but that sounds like it probably means something,Nemo!!!
--------------------
"Max?" He opened his eyes and saw the hunger in her eyes. "Again?"
She nodded and bit her lip...
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 1058



Posted 11-04-2001 01:39 AM (IP Logged)
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hugznkisses
Crazy Fan



RD why r u still up
R ya gonna come talk to me
--------------------
Official Insomniac!
Vini - Vidi - Vici
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 2151



Posted 11-04-2001 02:37 AM (IP Logged)
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mezz
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally posted by QueenAmidala01:
what if the other true protector wasnt an alien but a human
But then why was he so adament that he had told them everything
(althought obviously not because of Balance)and they could not come
back? (Although he didn't keep to this in ITW - always wondered why
he went to Michael and not Max then) And why did he not know that
there would be more than Max? And then why would he have told Liz to
be fearful if he knew he was to protect an alien? I guess we need to
read Grandma Claudia's book.
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 110



Posted 11-04-2001 05:31 AM (IP Logged)
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Vihmakass
Dedicated Fan

yeah, im mad....
but...i have one thought about shapeshifters and Spot.
Somewhere in show was talked about:
"....change my appearance, but not what's on the inside. Your bone
structure, on the other hand, is one hundred percent human " -&-"
Humans are weak - which doesn't bother me - and wasteful. Their
brains are incredible machines they haven't even begun to use. When
you were engineered, you were given the capacity to do everything
the human brain is capable of."-&- "your essence was duplicated,
cloned, and mixed with human genetic materials so that you might be
recreated into human beings."-&-" That's what we've been trying to
find out at the lab. You know, there's something very strange about
your X-rays… something that doesn't make sense. They're completely
human: your bone structure, your organs, circulatory and pulmonary
systems. Everything human. But. Here's where things get really
strange. These are your blood cells. Completely not human"-&-"The
Gandarium are a genetically engineered life form, designed to bridge
the DNA and RNA sequencing during third-stage amino
synthesis......Alright. Uh, let's say you want to create an
alien-human hybrid. First, you get some alien cells, then you get
some human cells.Normally they don't mix very well. You need
something to help bridge the differences. That's where the Gandarium
come in......."-&- "Uh, a bad chromosome actually. It's what they
call a recessive genetic defect." -&- all this alien-sex and
preg.stuff.-&-
And now we know - shapeshifters have a "basic-form", to what they
must return after some(?) time.
-----------------------------
Boldlines:
1)shapeshifters can be what ever needed but inside they are still
aliens.
2)Aliens have 1 month peg.This is enougth to create well done
alien-baby.(we don't know does they have this "morning sickness"
period )
3)Not every generation have this genetic defect.
4)human and alien cells normaly don't mix very well.
5)two firstline hybrids never can (even if they can)produtce only
100% themselflike hybid heir.(This is that drosofila thing)
just lines:
-Liz knows thous facts all,
-Aliens has smaller brain and lung capasity than humans(Atherton)
-R4 and Dupes has their "podperiod"
--------------------
bottom line
- this baby has legacy from parents: part human and part alien and
no part-mixing elements/bad cromosome,
he must become human or alien and with one month preg. it's just too
hard grow to be human (or not to be human inside but he has
basicshape - human like).
---------------------
If this baby was Max/Liz -there are different circumstances - the
human genetic elements are in vast majority and Max's alien factor
didn't come to legacy at all (no't mixing) but all him given forced
human capacity may overcome to them heir.
And Liz beeing so smart and intelligent(having good brains )
playing big role on this.Fact that she is shanged now and needed to
grow......grow for what?
This is her importanse to Alien Myth - she has capasity to be mother
for new powerfull humanrace (and i think bad aliens don't like
this)who can defence Earth and maybe help Antar too! Them kind does
rule (CWW) over...
Bottomline for this:
-look Destiny Book, yes,yes this Destiny Book.
The pages with preg.womans, all babies are well grown and bellis are
normal preg.woman belly not like Tess has - only one tiny glowing
handprint and thats all
-----------------------------------
One crazy line more:
Liz Dad was writing poems for his first girlfrend.
And Liz is her father poem( to who...)
and was this only compliment or truth? Does this means that Liz true
mother was that girl? And was this only car accident?.. or just same
sort accident like with Alex?... or with journalist Betty in So47?
------------------------------------
Im coming crazy.....im coming crazy ...

and i don't have any regrets
[ 11-04-2001: Message edited by: Vihmakass ]
--------------------
Why I want say : look, the King is naked!
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 267



Posted 11-04-2001 05:40 AM (IP Logged)
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virus222
Dedicated Fan


This is the first time I've been to this thread and all I have to
say is WOHA!!!
Here I go!!
--------------------
Kevin #2
~~~~~~~
"What you do before you think. The real you...unedited."-Macy Gray
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 395



Posted 11-04-2001 08:05 AM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Scary Fan



quote:
Originally posted by Vihmakass:
...One crazy line more:
Liz Dad was writing poems for his first girlfrend.
And Liz is her father poem( to who...)
and was this only compliment or truth? Does this means that Liz
true mother was that girl? And was this only car accident?.. or
just same sort accident like with Alex?... or with journalist
Betty in So47?...
Wow! I hope the writers see this one! Remember in Leaving Normal
how Liz's mom was a little cold about being included with Liz and
her paternal Grandma's chat? Maybe Liz's mom is her stepmom, and her
real mom was an alien? That's awesome, Vihmakass!
It would explain why Max connected with her when he was a small
child. And that comment he made in Busted about admitting he was
attracted to someone "like me" would mean that he was attracted to
Liz the same way, except Liz is not a !
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2524



Posted 11-04-2001 10:15 AM (IP Logged)
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Vihmakass
Dedicated Fan

No-no Liz is human.
My weak place is i don't remember how old Jeff was when this
accident happens.
Before Nancy....
Jeff and Nancy are married at 1979
and they come Roswell and open CD cafe at 1984
- year after Liz supoused born.
J.&N. was married 4-5 year before that.
Jeff was born at 1955
and he was at same age like Liz at 1972/73
when in Roswell was silomurder situation.
-------------------------------
-S.Hubble was killed at 1970.
-Atherton killung & moviestar killing was at 1959.
-------------------------------
there was two Shapeshifters involved to all this events - silverhand
and lightingbolt.
-------------------------------
and to make all this harder and crazie....
what if liz bornnot in right time in accdent happened by fault of
one shapeshifter and mother dies and little baby was so weak and
shapeshifter so sry.(or something like this) and take Liz who maybe
was 4-5 month old to podchamber and somehow helped her survive and
this closeness/connection at this time accused that moment in school
- they really know eatchother before they know.And from that time
Liz has all flashes about things what she can't know.Maybe she
little softed this Shapeshifter and he really cares about her and
learned good sides of humans and he understand if he gives thous
hybrids just like planned back to Antar - the Antarians have humans
power without humans hart.Liz was in this pod maybe over 8-9 years
(we can see the Antarian tecnic was very advanced but neede more
time than nature).Shapeshifter was giving her back to Jeff (Nancy we
dont get own child why not we take....), to not make some attention
they moved to Roswell where Jeff worked up and opened CD at
1984.This making Liz somehow "older" than we thougt but hey podsters
were here from 1947 and ....
This moment when Liz was taken away from podchamber - that wake up
somehow Michael - who saw this and was so scared that escaped from
Max/Iz who was waked up too.
Yes, Max goes to Tess pod but he recognised that this is not that
girl and leave her.They lost Michael and they lost Liz.After 3 years
(i don't have any doubts)shapeshifter found Michael and somehow make
Hanck move to Roswell.At this time he knows - Tess is gone and knows
who has her and goes after bc of this not only FBI Ed an Tess was
hiding themselves. In this time Hanck comes abusive to Michael. SS
was sure that Max/Iz/Mikey has good homes.When he comes back he was
founded Ed and Tess and make them returne to Roswell.
After Crazy he was concerned all is ok.Tess is keeping hands off
from Max.But Ed and Tess has deal with Khivar.
------------------------
Liz is podster too but not in R4 pod and she is not alien.Jeff is
still her father,Grandma C her grandma.
Maybe RD was this person who sometime looking over podsters when SS
was on his way.
------------------------
This making any sense or Im losed all my sence?
Oh i have many-many explanations for chads and lose ends and to
trped plot lines......i just so silly
--------------------
Why I want say : look, the King is naked!
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 267



Posted 11-04-2001 02:43 PM (IP Logged)
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healersbabe
Addicted Fan


quote:
Originally posted by Vihmakass:
(...) Their brains are incredible machines they haven't even begun
to use. When you were engineered, you were given the capacity to
do everything the human brain is capable of(...) It's what they
call a recessive genetic defect." -&- all this alien-sex and
preg.stuff.-&-
And now we know - shapeshifters have a "basic-form", to what they
must return after some(?) time.
3)Not every generation have this genetic defect.
4)human and alien cells normaly don't mix very well.
5)two firstline hybrids never can (even if they can)produtce only
100% themselflike hybid heir.(This is that drosofila
thing)(<---YUP!! )
Fact that she is shanged now and needed to grow......grow for
what?
Them kind does rule (CWW) over...
YUP! YUP! YUP!
Excellent points!! And soo true...but then would Liz need to have a
genetic defect in order to process the new alien dupes? And from
what I read about hybrids only (F3?) can reproduce? The second
hybrid lines are infertile...
quote:
One crazy line more:
Liz Dad was writing poems for his first girlfrend.
And Liz is her father poem( to who...)
and was this only compliment or truth? Does this means that Liz
true mother was that girl? And was this only car accident?.. or
just same sort accident like with Alex?... or with journalist
Betty in So47?
Vih so right on...like both her folks have blue eyes and hers are
browner than chocolate ...go figure. Thats a CHAD that CANNOT be
left a CHAD ...
quote:
Im coming crazy.....im coming crazy ...

and i don't have any regrets
[/QB]
OMG!! LMAO...,I'm gonna use that as my next sigline!! Can I?? Can
I? !!!!HILARIOUS!
[b]hugs how'd you find me in here!!! TEEHEE!
OMG Vih you posted again hehehe, I'm gonna have to come back later
I'm supposed to be doing something for work !! You are suck a
brainiac Vih!! I love it!! Oh!! Soo excited we have mything stuff
again!! Yiipeee!! You guys are too awesome!!!
PS You like my avatar of SPOT?
[ 11-04-2001: Message edited by: healersbabe ]
--------------------
"Max?" He opened his eyes and saw the hunger in her eyes. "Again?"
She nodded and bit her lip...
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 1058



Posted 11-04-2001 07:33 PM (IP Logged)
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QueenAmidala01
Obsessed Fan


quote:
Originally posted by mezz:
But then why was he so adament that he had told them everything
(althought obviously not because of Balance)and they could not
come back? (Although he didn't keep to this in ITW - always
wondered why he went to Michael and not Max then) And why did he
not know that there would be more than Max? And then why would he
have told Liz to be fearful if he knew he was to protect an alien?
I guess we need to read Grandma Claudia's book.
nesado never told the podsters about the other dupe 4
either.......so i guess everyone is keepin secrets
and rd tellin liz to be fearful......well it couldve been for her to
step away from the aliens for her own protection, because he mightve
known of the war the skins, etc arghhhhhhhhhhh i have so forgotten
the first half of season 1
--------------------
"When humans want rides they take Jetta's.
When tess want a ride she takes her tractor
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 1900



Posted 11-04-2001 07:33 PM (IP Logged)
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QueenAmidala01
Obsessed Fan


sorry evil dupe post
[ 11-04-2001: Message edited by: QueenAmidala01 ]
--------------------
"When humans want rides they take Jetta's.
When tess want a ride she takes her tractor
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 1900



Posted 11-04-2001 07:55 PM (IP Logged)
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QueenAmidala01
Obsessed Fan


u know guys after readin the theories.......we could make all the
bits and pieces fall into place on the show.....if only there was a
way remove the chads and make roswell even better
im dreaming
--------------------
"When humans want rides they take Jetta's.
When tess want a ride she takes her tractor
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 1900



Posted 11-04-2001 08:19 PM (IP Logged)
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mezz
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally posted by QueenAmidala01:
arghhhhhhhhhhh i have so forgotten the first half of season 1
It looks like you're just gonna have to go back and watch it all
again.
Yes, tough job but I guess we must if we must
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 110



Posted 11-04-2001 08:38 PM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Welcome to all newbies!!
Queen A - you are not the only one dreaming. The way posters on this
thread are able to come up with ways to pull everything together and
explain away many CHADS is why I gave Kevin Kelly Brown a copy of
the "Intro" on disk and told one of the writers I spoke with about
the Intro and our Thread! I was hoping to "help" them. (I did all
this at the August party in LA.) Only time will tell if anyone
actually read what we all thought and I compiled into the Intro. IF
nothing else, I figured they could learn a few things by reviewing
the Dates!!
Anyway - love the ideas you are all coming up with and are
discussing! BTW - many of us have thought that Liz may be adopted or
have origins that are different than what the obvious would lead us
to believe. I only wish they had done more with Grandma Claudia and
her book!
Zero
FAN!
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 957



Posted 11-04-2001 10:32 PM (IP Logged)
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Zara
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally posted by Nemo:
Hi, RBI's. I rewatched Michael & the Guys, looking for that SOS
display behind Isabel in the convenience store, that someone
pointed out earlier. (So far I haven't found it; maybe I had the
wrong episode.)
[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: Nemo ]
HI Nemo, that was me with the SOS. It's on the left side of the isle
as she enters the first row in the convenience store. It's not the
row where most of the scene is shot, but one isle over.
--------------------
Zara
Michael's dad is Q
Joined: Aug 2001 | Posts: 166



Posted 11-04-2001 11:30 PM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Loyal Fan

Thanks, Zara. Good to see you again.
Joined: Dec 99 | Posts: 989



Posted 11-05-2001 02:30 AM (IP Logged)
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zroswellfan
Dedicated Fan


Hi everyone. I am a lurker and i love this thread. I would just love
to tell u all that i love your theories.
--------------------
Always a dreamer...
Joined: Mar 2001 | Posts: 100



Posted 11-05-2001 08:27 AM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Loyal Fan

zroswellfan, good to hear from you too.
Joined: Dec 99 | Posts: 994



Posted 11-05-2001 11:40 AM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Extreme Fan


Hello fellow mythers, I forgot to mention I rather liked this latest
episode because of revisiting some season1 mysteries that have been
left hanging such as Valenti Sr and the shapeshifter or
shapeshifters whichever the case may be.
A couple of other things I noticed---when they go through J
Ferrini's glove compartment the detective says something about
REPAIRS and mentions some AUTO PARTS---an ongoing theme--YES--hey I
know call me crazy but they mention all this STUFF TOO OFTEN for it
not to have some meaning--and now Kyle is working on AUTO REPAIRS
hmmmm. Sean invited Liz to an AUTO SHOW. I remember the Auto Parts
sign behind Alex when Pierce tried to get him into the car. I know
there are several more examples of this throughout--don't know what
it means quite yet but I am sure there is a connection.
Fun with names just like we had Doug Shellow-DS--Sean Deluca-SD---we
also have Brody Davis-Breepa Deluca/BD and Deputy Brown DB? Maybe
its nothing but something I noticed.
They also mentioned BALD MIDDLEAGED MEN--wasn't Agent Stephens
partially bald?
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2138



Posted 11-05-2001 11:45 AM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



quote:
Originally posted by QueenAmidala01:
sorry evil dupe post
[ 11-04-2001: Message edited by: QueenAmidala01 ]

quote:
Originally posted by Vihmakass:
[QB]No-no Liz is human.
...
and to make all this harder and crazie....
what if liz [not born]...
...And from that time Liz has all flashes about things what she
can't know....
...Liz was in this pod maybe over 8-9 years
...Liz is podster too but not in R4 pod and she is not alien....
Vihmakass, I'm not sure how Liz is still human if she was in a pod,
but with Science Fiction all things are possible.
But this could explain how she was able to see the information in
the flashes. But I think maybe the line of Michael's from SH about
how maybe she was getting the flashes from someone else might be
true.
Maybe Tess sensed when Max was getting involved with Liz and sent
the flashes to interrupt them?
In the Roswell High books, Maria gets flashes of the spaceship from
an alien Power Ring (I mention this on the Compare the Books To The
Show Thread).
Maybe Grandma Claudia's necklace has a power stone like the ring?
Liz has been wearing that necklace and Melinda Metz (books' author)
is now writing for the show.
I bet the CHADDS will be very upset if it turns out the necklace
has power and Liz doesn't notice it till Season 3.
GK, good catch on Agent Stephens. Both he and Topolsky (who looks
like the dead actress) disappeared (she in a FIRE ) without BODIES
recovered. ? ?
[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ]
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2536



Posted 11-05-2001 01:24 PM (IP Logged)
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Vihmakass
Dedicated Fan

Hi Shapeshifter...
i that theory by Grandma C. jewels.
This is great IF they are from that "alien rock collection".
This is not impossible - look at Atherton house they find that swirl
necklace.
----------------------------------
...about Liz in pod.
Even we humans have this pods in our days - incubators where doc.'s
put thous babies who born little earlie than it was mean. Yes they
not so sci-fi like Antarians have but...
----------------------------------
I like (littlebit) this last eppy too. If they continiue go to this
"revealing chads from earlie " Im come like this season (maybe)
....and i hope thay give us some reason come here
--------------------
Why I want say : look, the King is naked!
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 268



Posted 11-05-2001 04:28 PM (IP Logged)
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Vihmakass
Dedicated Fan

evil dupe post from me ...
[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: Vihmakass ]
--------------------
Why I want say : look, the King is naked!
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 268



Posted 11-05-2001 04:35 PM (IP Logged)
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Vihmakass
Dedicated Fan

about jewels but his time jewels in sky.
Somewere we has this talk about thous symbols in RD cave and i was
posting theory that they are galaxy's not stars. Im still thinking
this is true - all 5 stars are galaxy's.They only stars in some
weird const. what we can't see form Earth... but if they are
galaxyi's i can understand why we don't see them every night and how
it is possible see one star here at Earth and at Antar in same time.
...but what then this weird const. what we see in show?
Maybe this is some map sent on our sky in times when is possible fly
to home - navigation points/beacons/lighthouses and when is possible
send/receive messages.
This cave map was drawn by somebody who has cordinates.
-----------------------------------------------
Oh, god how i like this theory, please, please let it be true....
-----------------------------------------------
images (only nearby Galaxy's)
1.swirl

31 million light years (mly)
3.saturn

183 mly
2.cells

13 mly
4.(mess?)

7,5 mly
5.rocks
Here we live - Milkyway
0 mly
If you draw a map with them - the distances between galaxy's a
exactly like on cave map.
Michael was right but he don't has this ability attach all facts and
make rigt conclusion like Liz has.
If my dream comes true - she finds way to Antar for Max. And this
weird planet is not so far....
---------------------------------------
if somebody now has interst read more:
Hubble Heritage Gallery Images
Roswell is not show what makes us crazy - it is show what make us
learn!
sry.long post...
[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: Vihmakass ]
--------------------
Why I want say : look, the King is naked!
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 268



Posted 11-05-2001 05:42 PM (IP Logged)
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rory_parker
Dedicated Fan

hey y'all! can't post on this board for much longer. i don't have
upn. what happened to the signs & symbols thread? i tried starting
it up again but nemo is the only one who posts. i know there used to
be more.
rory_parker
--------------------
Remember Ghostwriter? Go here to chat.
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 149



Posted 11-05-2001 06:50 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



rory_parker, that's so sad that you don't have UPN ! Maybe you can
find a friend or co-worker who has it on Satellite? Anyway, I
uploaded some old Signs & Symbols threads for you Here and Here.
Vihmakass, thanks for that link! I love the pics! When I was Liz's
age, one of my most cherished books was Flamarion's Book of
Astonomy.

Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2536



Posted 11-05-2001 06:51 PM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Don't have anything to add right now - just seeing if my attempts to
up-date my profile worked. We will see??
Zero
FAN!
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 966



Posted 11-05-2001 06:51 PM (IP Logged)
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healersbabe
Addicted Fan


quote:
Originally posted by Vihmakass:
4.(mess?)

7,5 mly
Roswell is not show what makes us crazy - it is show what make us
learn!
sry.long post...
[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: Vihmakass ]
"MESS" hehehe Vih you crack me up!! And I soo agree its a show
that makes us wanna learn in a fun way
--------------------
"Max?" He opened his eyes and saw the hunger in her eyes. "Again?"
She nodded and bit her lip...
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 1110



Posted 11-05-2001 06:56 PM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Great - it worked, but now Shapeshifter - how did you get the
personalize Avatar to work? I had to resort to the default Liz one.
Zero
FAN!
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 966



Posted 11-05-2001 11:44 PM (IP Logged)
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QueenAmidala01
Obsessed Fan


okkkkkkkkk well im looking into the galaxy theory......and i have a
planishere and an astronomy book here.......and now i wanna take my
telescope outside and look at the virgo cluster...(must hold on to
my temptation)
well we can see galaxies with telecsopes or with good binoculars.
the virgo cluster has the largest no. of galaxies in it which are
nearer to earth and can be seen with the telescope.....
now on the show they sometimes refer their home antar on another
galaxy.....but this disturbed me as the stars.....look like actuall
stars in OUR galaxy
and not from another...........but what if there is an actuall
galactic formation that looks like the V shape.
another thing what when micheal contacted nesado he used that
eliptical symbol with the dot whiich actually looks like an
eliptical galaxy...eg M110
the spiral symbol which nesodo used to return the messsage......look
like a spiral galaxy........
what if nesado is not an antarian but from another one of the five
worlds which is in another galaxy
r 4 from a spiral galaxy ........nesado from a eliptical galaxy
[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: QueenAmidala01 ]
--------------------
"When humans want rides they take Jetta's.
When tess want a ride she takes her tractor
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 1927



Posted 11-06-2001 09:52 AM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Okay - I've tried to personalize my Avatar - but I don't think it
worked - so here we go and see if it did.
Zero
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 966



Posted 11-06-2001 10:08 AM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Try, try again-
Zero
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 966



Posted 11-06-2001 11:07 AM (IP Logged)
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scotlore
Obsessed Fan

I don't know if folks are interested but I thought I'd throw out
this alert in case you are:
Shiri Appleby and Majandra Delfino will be guests at E!Online's
Wanda's Chat on November 12 at 5 CST/6 ET/ 3PT
I absolutely love the purpose of this thread discussion by the way!
Bridget aka scotlore
[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: scotlore ]
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 1916



Posted 11-06-2001 12:29 PM (IP Logged)
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Donna2001
Dedicated Fan

Vihmakass--I love your galaxy theory! There's just a few things that
I was thinking about that kind of make me wonder.
1. What makes the swirl galaxy so special? Correct me if I'm wrong,
but the swirl symbol is what has traditionally been associated with
Antar. So why is it so prevalent if it's not even the R4's home
planet, let alone their home galaxy?
2. I agree that the rock formation could symbolize the Milky Way if
you look at it distance-wise. Also, the rock formation symbol looks
a lot like the rock formation by the pod chamber on Earth.
So, does this mean that Earth is the R4's home?? I don't think so,
but I do think that Earth definitely has significance.
I know you've discussed before that maybe each of the R4 came from a
different planet in their alliance. There's five planets (I believe
that's why they chose a V formation; V=5 in Roman Numerals) and so
far we have 4 aliens. Max feels a strong association to the swirl
and Michael/Iz/Tess to either the ellipse, "mess", or the cells.
That leaves a 5th object (rock formation=granolith) that could be
associated with...none other than Liz! And since the 5th and bottom
"star" could easily represent Earth, she would be the human 5th
representative.
This theory could answer a lot of questions in regard to Liz and
Max, Liz and the granolith, political marriages, different alien
powers, etc.
Sorry to throw a whole new theory out to you (at least I hope it's
new--just ignore me if you've discussed this before). Anyway, tell
me what you think.
--------------------
~Donna~
"If it isn't complicated he probably isn't a soulmate."
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 111



Posted 11-06-2001 12:36 PM (IP Logged)
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Donna2001
Dedicated Fan

This picture might help everyone envision Vih's galaxy theory
better.
--------------------
~Donna~
"If it isn't complicated he probably isn't a soulmate."
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 111



Posted 11-06-2001 05:01 PM (IP Logged)
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Qfanny
Obsessed Fan

Hello everybody.
I'm bin workin' (my attempt at a weak pun). Actually, I am refusing
to work overtime anymore. But I think my body is demanding that it
catch up on all the sleep I missed over the last year... It's very
sad to say the lest. But I don't want to go nuts on you. I save that
for a special few.
There is something about this season that just bothers me. I can't
put my finger on it. I am happy that they are trying to do more with
the characters. They actually seem to have plot lines this year. Of
course, I was happy about Liz figuring out the theory of the
shapeshifter - returning to a base form. I am just sorry that the
shapeshifter has to play a middle aged bald guy... I can believe
that our TicTac has come back. I guess we'll have to wait until he
shapeshifts to see if it is really TicTac.
I don't mean to complain, but does anyone get the sense that there
is less zest and energy in the performances? They all seem so grown
up now. I want my heart strings pulled again - and for everything
season two was, there were episodes that held the tremor of
unresolved love.
Don't get me wrong. I still watch the show. I like the show. I've
seen all the cast and have talked to a few of them. I've met the
crew as well too. They are all so nice and talented. And to the
cast's credit, I think they have outgrown these roles.
Oh, I don't think Liz could be a pod person - even if she is 100%
human. I'll have to read your theory more.
--------------------
From Nebraska
Qfanny/MOB14
Liz is not an alien
And there is no spam in responsibility!
Joined: Jul 00 | Posts: 1543



Posted 11-06-2001 05:11 PM (IP Logged)
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Essence
Part-Time Fan

Qfanny, I hear ya! However, I've been reading the general discussion
of this week's episode and I have to say that I am actually looking
forward to an episode at last. And doesn't it just figure that I
have to wait until Saturday to see it this week (I live near
Philly)!
I'm really glad others have found something to myth about. I do so
enjoy reading everyone's comments. Thanks for making the down time
during my evenings at work actually enjoyable!
Essence
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 86



Posted 11-06-2001 05:17 PM (IP Logged)
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QueenAmidala01
Obsessed Fan


quote:
Originally posted by Donna2001:
I know you've discussed before that maybe each of the R4 came from
a different planet in their alliance. There's five planets (I
believe that's why they chose a V formation; V=5 in Roman
Numerals) and so far we have 4 aliens. Max feels a strong
association to the swirl and Michael/Iz/Tess to either the
ellipse, "mess", or the cells. That leaves a 5th object (rock
formation=granolith) that could be associated with...none other
than Liz! And since the 5th and bottom "star" could easily
represent Earth, she would be the human 5th representative.
omg i was also thinking this...the bottom star being a
representation of earth
also just because the v contellation represents the 5 planets are we
sure that within those 5 stars there are planets....it could just be
a symbol of 5. max micheal, izzy. tess and liz..liz being the bottom
star which connects the separte stars on either side
--------------------
"When humans want rides they take Jetta's.
When tess want a ride she takes her tractor
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 1927



Posted 11-06-2001 07:04 PM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Loyal Fan

Qfanny, I'm glad to see you back here. I was afraid we might have
alienated you.
Joined: Dec 99 | Posts: 994



Posted 11-06-2001 07:09 PM (IP Logged)
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Donna2001
Dedicated Fan

Thanks QueenA!
I was also thinking that this would fit in nicely with the whole
Liz=Venus theory since she has always been associated with Venus and
thus the bottom "star".
--------------------
~Donna~
"If it isn't complicated he probably isn't a soulmate."
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 111



Posted 11-06-2001 07:37 PM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Scotchlore - thanks for the heads-up! I can hardly wait to see what
they chat about!!
Donna - great theory, and I can't believe that I never thought about
the fact V is the Roman numeral for "5"! I still believe that Earth
plays into the Antarian history somehow, someway - why else would
they know to pick it as the ultimate destination for their
resurrected King? I'm hoping for some enlightenment by the new SS
tonight! One of these beings with knowledge has to share sometime -
don't they!
See you all later after I have time to watch - though given my work
schedule tomorrow, it may be awhile before I get my thoughts
collected and posted. In the meantime - WELCOME BACK to all our
loyal gang and to all newbies too!
Zero
FAN!
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 966



Posted 11-06-2001 09:53 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



It was FULL of symbols for us to analyze. I took notes, but it's
late here, so I'll have to just mention a few:
Langley likes it on Earth, Nasedo wanted to go to Antar, and Max
admits he was 'sleeping with the enemy.'
Max & Is are both called selfish. But we remember TEOTW and know
better.
Dick Chenney is the only other guy with that Nokia and the
President is jealous. If Max now has it, is he the VP? Or is
Langely? Or does this hearken back to the Michael-worshippers
plot-line?
Jessie shows up and suggests torching the barn where the reception
will be. Okay, is this deja vu on Max's original wedding on Antar?
Max goes to the "protector" to get help to find out if his son is
safe. Mrs. Evans is wearing clothes the same color as the Crash
Down Cafe uniforms. She just wants to know if her son is safe and
asks Liz. Liz is in a protector role.
Liz is still wearing that necklace.
Mrs. Evans wants her 13X9 pan back. Nemo? Interpretation please.
And how about Isabel covering all but 3 quilt squares when she
sits down? And what kind of flowering plants are behind Is & Jess
when they kiss? Carnivorous?
The purple decoration on the toothpick that Liz serves is like a
Granolith. And she takes it back before he's done with it.
Red roses when Max is sharing his story at the party, then 5 gold
Oscars, but Langley only earned 4
GraceKel, you were right about the repairs! Max's ship needed to
stay in the shop.
I laughed when his cell phone rang because mine always rings at
inopportune times and if you don't answer in 18 seconds, it goes
into voicemail. I know it wasn't funny, especially since he made his
choice to leave her for his son, but...

[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ]
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2536



Posted 11-06-2001 11:23 PM (IP Logged)
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Style
Dedicated Fan

I think there was a reason why the three royals were sent to earth.
Max's protector made that very clear.
Style
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 327



Posted 11-06-2001 11:37 PM (IP Logged)
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QueenAmidala01
Obsessed Fan



another V symbol created by the lights behing liz
[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: QueenAmidala01 ]
--------------------
"When humans want rides they take Jetta's.
When tess want a ride she takes her tractor
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 1927



Posted 11-07-2001 06:59 AM (IP Logged)
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twilightlurker
Dedicated Fan

De-lurking for a moment to point out something yet not mentioned.
I've noticed in the past threads that everyone has been having
doubts about whether or not Langley is Tic-Tac.
Well, I think the ending gives us a small clue! I can't remember the
exact quote, but it went something like this: "Your alien side only
makes you weaker. Go back home: Go see your sister; your girlfriend;
Your mother, who already feels like she's lost you.", in which Max
replies "How did you know about them"?, and Langley says
" Because I'm your protetor, I have to know"
...or something like that. This exchanged of words led me to believe
that even though Langley hates his mission, hates the King, and
hates his alien side, that he still was "programed" for this mission
and has to protect them regardless of whatever producer job he wants
to do!
He may VERY possibly be Tic-Tac, which I wouldn't consider to be too
much of a disappointment !
Bye
- Marisa
Joined: May 00 | Posts: 409



Posted 11-07-2001 08:21 AM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



quote:
Originally posted by twilightlurker:
...everyone has been having doubts about whether or not Langley is
Tic-Tac.
Well, I think the ending gives us a small clue! ...
Marisa, ITA on that line. I think it was something like: "I was
doing my job." And they chose to show us an appearance of him that
looked like the guy in BD. I now think he's the guy that told Max &
Liz to go home at the end of SH too.
But br-r-r-r on that line about how after what Max had done he would
always hate him.
And although I loved the final M/L hug, I got some negative deja vu
(based on my own experiences) about her staying with him. I just
hope he is, as the music implied, really changing and starting over.
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2536



Posted 11-07-2001 09:31 AM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Hi All -
I have to get ready for a meeting but I had to post a few quick
impressions.
First - I'm totally intriqued by Cal Langley, but completely
disappointed by "little" we learned about him. Once again, here is a
being full of valuable information and Max fails to ask him even the
most basic of information!! But based on what he said - here are
some conclusions I've drawn -
1. Cal is NOT Tic Tac. He mentioned not SS'ing for years to try to
develope his "human" senses. If this is the truth - than he could
not be Tic Tac (unless "Years" is a year and a half). He mentions -
I believe - that in 1978 that he smelled Chlorine in the pool for
the first time.
2. Cal could be working with Tic Tac. I STILL believe there are more
than 2 SS's out there, and it would make sense - if Cal is watching
- that he is working with others to do that watching.
3. Cal tells us that he knows he has "enemies." I don't think he
used that word - Max does when he mentions "sleeping with the enemy"
- but at the beginning he asks Max who he is working with! But we
get no more details.
4. Cal says he was their protector - but not that he was their sole
protector. We still don't know where Harding, Nasedo, Tic Tac, etc.
all fit into the picture.
5. Antar must have a LOT of problems. Cal makes Earth sound like
Heaven compared to what he would be returning to - however, it must
be possible for a Hybrid to live on Antar, because Cal made no
protest as to this point.
6. Cal immediately assumed that Max and mated with another Hybrid -
but never mentions the "bride," Destiny, Royal Four, etc. - which
makes me wonder (a) just how many "hybrids" are out there?? and (b)
is the entire Destiny stuff a bunch of duplicity crap??
7. Okay - I know I have more, but not enough time - but as you can
see - Cal raises a lot of interesting questions with me. Also -
though I don't like the killer side of him, there was a bit of a
tragic, sympathetic side to him! Especially, when Max started to
boss him around.
Also - I felt sooooooo sorry for Mrs. Evans. I do not understand why
Liz was so cold to her. I thought that was uncalled for since Mrs.
Evans had never done anything to Liz or tried to prevent her from
seeing Max.
I hate the entire Iz getting Married storyline - it grates on me -
whine, whine, whine - though the preview imply that Khivar will be
right around the corner! ??? Maybe this will increase my interest.
(But there was an article about "weddings" and "babies" being
connected to "jumping the shark" - and interesting that those two
storylines are the ones that really bore me!
Finally, Was Max a JERK or what?!?! I'm sorry - but embracing his
"alien" side does bring out the worse in him. Ewww!! I hated how he
bossed Cal around once he discovered this "power" - but most of all
my blood ran cold when he looked at the phone with Liz calling him,
and shut it!! RUN LIZ! RUN as fast as you can!! I did not like the
hug at the end - I felt like she should spit on him!! Love conquers
a lot, but not all - and this is one time I think she was owed a
better explanation than a tearful "whoas, me!" by Max.
Got to run!! But those are my "gut" reaction thoughts!!
Zero
FAN!
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 966



Posted 11-07-2001 10:30 AM (IP Logged)
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StephStephSteph
Obsessed Fan


Blah. I hate FF sometimes.
[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: StephStephSteph ]
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 1852



Posted 11-07-2001 10:31 AM (IP Logged)
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StephStephSteph
Obsessed Fan


quote:
Originally posted by Zero:
1. Cal is NOT Tic Tac. He mentioned not SS'ing for years to try to
develope his "human" senses. If this is the truth - than he could
not be Tic Tac (unless "Years" is a year and a half). He mentions
- I believe - that in 1978 that he smelled Chlorine in the pool
for the first time.
Agreed. I was actually dissapointed when Cal said he hadn't SS'd in
years - means he couldn't be the infamous Tic-Tac and makes me
wonder if, in fact, ShapeShifter was right when she mentioned that
Nacedo is probably Tic-Tac and the producers simply dropped the
"tic-tac trademark". Blah. Bor-ing.
quote:
2. Cal could be working with Tic Tac. I STILL believe there are
more than 2 SS's out there, and it would make sense - if Cal is
watching - that he is working with others to do that watching.
I still think there's more than 2 SS's too, but I tend to lean
towards Cal not knowing about more of them. He just seemed to be
extremely removed from the whole idea of his "alien side". Of
course, it makes me wonder just HOW much he could actually have
stopped doing. He said he was Max's protector yet he took of to
Hollywood many moons ago. Don't you think there would be some sort
of internal program that would have made him seek out Max and stay
close by? Or has he periodically "popped" up in episodes to save the
Pod Squad and we just assumed it was something else!?
quote:
5. Antar must have a LOT of problems. Cal makes Earth sound like
Heaven compared to what he would be returning to - however, it
must be possible for a Hybrid to live on Antar, because Cal made
no protest as to this point.
ITA! I found it interesting how much Cal did NOT want to go back.
He made Antar seemed like Nazi Germany. Also.. I found it bizarre
that Cal referred to T as the "alien hybrid" rather than "his
wife". Just something that made me go.. hmm..
quote:
6. Cal immediately assumed that Max and mated with another Hybrid
- but never mentions the "bride," Destiny, Royal Four, etc. -
which makes me wonder (a) just how many "hybrids" are out there??
and (b) is the entire Destiny stuff a bunch of duplicity crap??
Yeah - that was my point, too.
quote:
I hate the entire Iz getting Married storyline - it grates on me -
whine, whine, whine - though the preview imply that Khivar will be
right around the corner! ??? Maybe this will increase my interest.
(But there was an article about "weddings" and "babies" being
connected to "jumping the shark" - and interesting that those two
storylines are the ones that really bore me!
Finally, Was Max a JERK or what?!?! I'm sorry - but embracing his
"alien" side does bring out the worse in him. Ewww!! I hated how
he bossed Cal around once he discovered this "power" - but most of
all my blood ran cold when he looked at the phone with Liz calling
him, and shut it!! RUN LIZ! RUN as fast as you can!! I did not
like the hug at the end - I felt like she should spit on him!!
Love conquers a lot, but not all - and this is one time I think
she was owed a better explanation than a tearful "whoas, me!" by
Max.
ITA! I don't like the "wedding" story line at ALL! Gawd, can you
say "forced"!?
And Max? Well, hated him from about the time he realized he could
boss Cal around and Call "had" to obey until the time he came crying
to Liz. Cal's right.. stay away from the aline side.. just makes him
ugly.
[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: StephStephSteph ]
--------------------
Steph
RBI~Dreamer~Behrian
*Bull Ridin' Behrian Boogie Diva*
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 1852



Posted 11-07-2001 11:33 AM (IP Logged)
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Alexis
Addicted Fan

Zero-loved all your points, especially the one about Max shutting
his phone! Yikes! Talk about character assassination! Then he tells
Liz he'll never leave her? What? I'm confused. I thought the writers
AND the director could have shown more of a redemption with Max.
your comments, too, StephStephSteph
--------------------
Sweet Dreams make for blissfull sleep
Joined: Oct 2000 | Posts: 1394



Posted 11-07-2001 12:10 PM (IP Logged)
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Alexis
Addicted Fan

Was I the only one that noticed Max doesn't have use of his left arm
in the final scene? No one walks without swinging their arms
somewhat!
I agree that I felt sorry for Kal. Max resist that alien side!
Maria asks "Who is Jesse Ramirez?" Is this a clue? Who is he really?
You know that whole protector being encoded in the gene leaves big
holes about Nasedo...
--------------------
Sweet Dreams make for blissfull sleep
Joined: Oct 2000 | Posts: 1394



Posted 11-07-2001 12:28 PM (IP Logged)
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Vihmakass
Dedicated Fan

Hi!
What if every podster has 1 shapeshifter like bodyguard?
- Tess - Ed Harding (was captured by FBI)
Max: It was buried among tess' things. It's a letter Nasedo wrote to
her before he died. It says, "I am your one and only protector on
this planet. "I'll protect you until the end. "If I ever die, this
is our only way to communicate with our home."
- Max - Cal
- Michael - Tic-tac
- Isabel - *?
*We know CWW rwfers to herself like her protector but im thinking
she this job was given to her fromKhivar not from Isabel mother.
---------------------------------------
In So47.
"HAL (voiceover): At that moment some strange force seemed to take
control of the truck.
(Hal looks ahead and sees a glowing white person in front of the
truck. Hal appears to run it over with the truck) "
- glowing white person (1- person)
"Hal starts snapping some pictures. He looks up in the mirror and
sees two white glowing things behind the curtain"
- two glowing things ( 2- persons)
-----------
Sum = 3 glowing persons (two diferent ways save pods)
and in SH we can see trough Liz eyes person who in hides desert
where we can see militaries - was he captured? maybe he is 4.
shapeshifter.
----------------------------------------
And does Dupes have protectors too! and where they?
Why nobody ask questions if they can? Are they so shy or stupid?
All this stuff sound's like they have slaves on Antar.
And maybe this Nazi thing is not only our theory.
Somewhere i read - UFO's and nazis has some contacts in time of II
WW.(Blackwood insident in Germani).
--------------------
Why I want say : look, the King is naked!
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 268



Posted 11-07-2001 12:54 PM (IP Logged)
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aldebaran
Addicted Fan

quote:
Originally posted by Alexis:
Was I the only one that noticed Max doesn't have use of his left
arm in the final scene? No one walks without swinging their arms
somewhat!
What was up with that?? My husband and I couldn't figure that out at
all - unless JB was purposely giving an extremely stilted
performance. It looked completely uncomfortable and unnatural.
quote:
Originally posted by Vihmakass:
Why nobody ask questions if they can? Are they so shy or stupid?
And therein lies the $64,000 question!! So many missed opportunities
to find out info on their past. Then again, if what Cal said was
correct (about Max being an S.O.B. on Antar), then I am not sure I
would want to know more either!
I am curious, though, to see what becomes of next week's encounter
with Khivar....could be good!
--------------------
"Talking about love is like dancing about architecture"
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 1311



Posted 11-07-2001 01:07 PM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


quote:
Originally posted by Vihmakass:
Why nobody ask questions if they can? Are they so shy or stupid?
I think "stupid"!
Actually, I like the one protector per hybrid idea a lot!! And it
works with my belief that Tic Tac is still out there.
I'm going to rewatch both episodes (Secrets and Lies & Control)
together and see what I think!
Steph and Alexis - Glad we are on the same wave-length!
Back later with more -
Zero
FAN!
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 966



Posted 11-07-2001 02:02 PM (IP Logged)
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nani
Dedicated Fan


Hello! I'm coming out of lurkdom to ask some questions/make some
comments.
1. Liz comes back to her role as a protector in "Control". Note the
similarities to MITC: She calls to Max from a distance and saves him
from impendig doom. In this episode he is hesitant to take the call,
takes him a few seconds to decide, but when he does the ship
crashes.
2. Why did Langley jumped to the conclusion that Max mated with
another hybrid? Why not a human? Is there something we don't know?
Can humans and hybrids procreate? Hybrids have human dna, so...
3. If the Antarians are such an advance race how come the resistance
didn't check on the podsters after a while? Is this some kind of
exhile for the overthrown king? Is Tess really in Antar, for some
reason I don't think she is Atarian.
4. What really happen in Antar? Max doesn't sound like a good king
according to Langley and BTW, Why did Langley had to hapeshift to
get in the ship? What would happen to Max's human form?
OOOOOPPPPS! to many questions I would love to read your imput on
some of them at least, I love this thread and the ideas that are
discussed here.
Nani
--------------------
"...Whenever I want you all I have to do, is dream..."
Login Name: nani3 | Joined: Jan 2001 | Posts: 111



Posted 11-07-2001 02:19 PM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Extreme Fan


Hi Fellow Mythers--don't really have time right now but did any
notice Kal Langley's license plate said
U I OWN----YOU I OWN---who owns who? Slaves?
I am so confused about what type of King ZAN was like on one hand we
have Langley calling him selfish and on the other we have LAREK
painting a more sympathetic picture--I saw you trying so hard for
your people---and his alien mother--you were the BELOVED LEADER of
OUR PEOPLE---but then Nicholas says "you decided the fate of entire
armies at the drop of a coin" OK MIXED SIGNALS__MUCH!!!! So which is
it--who is lying here?
Be back later with more!!!
Nice posts everyone---Zero I agree, Max I hope was not this awful
Zan type alien--wow!!! Maybe he was never really the KING if this is
the case maybe he just thinks he was, has the memories of being the
King but he wasn't--or maybe I am just in denial because I can't
stand this awful MAX we have now LOL!!!!!
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2138



Posted 11-07-2001 02:51 PM (IP Logged)
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StephStephSteph
Obsessed Fan


quote:
Originally posted by Vihmakass:
What if every podster has 1 shapeshifter like bodyguard?
- Tess - Ed Harding (was captured by FBI)
Max: It was buried among tess' things. It's a letter Nasedo wrote
to her before he died. It says, "I am your one and only protector
on this planet. "I'll protect you until the end. "If I ever die,
this is our only way to communicate with our home."
- Max - Cal
- Michael - Tic-tac
- Isabel - *?
Very interesting! Unfortunately, I don't have time to comment right
now, but this is a VERY INTERESTING thought.
--------------------
Steph
RBI~Dreamer~Behrian
*Bull Ridin' Behrian Boogie Diva*
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 1852



Posted 11-07-2001 03:50 PM (IP Logged)
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Essence
Part-Time Fan

Asking for opinions here. When we saw the funny vision (looking
through the eyes of someone/thing else in those past episodes),
would you say that happened at a time when the podsters might have
needed help from a protector? Maybe it was Cal or someone/thing
working for Cal.
--------------------
Essence-The intrinsic properties that serve to characterize or
identify something.
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 86



Posted 11-07-2001 04:47 PM (IP Logged)
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rory_parker
Dedicated Fan

thanks, shapeshifter!! for now, i depend on the crashdown for info.
well, i gotta study for a test on the ancient greeks.
--------------------
Remember Ghostwriter? Go here to chat.
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 149



Posted 11-07-2001 04:49 PM (IP Logged)
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rory_parker
Dedicated Fan

thanks, shapeshifter!! for now, i depend on the crashdown for info.
also, thanks for uploaded the psyschology of roswell. i like that
thread, too. well, i gotta study for a test on the ancient greeks.
--------------------
Remember Ghostwriter? Go here to chat.
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 149



Posted 11-07-2001 04:50 PM (IP Logged)
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healersbabe
Addicted Fan


quote:
Originally posted by Vihmakass:
What if every podster has 1 shapeshifter like bodyguard?
- Tess - Ed Harding (was captured by FBI)
Max: It was buried among tess' things. It's a letter Nasedo wrote
to her before he died. It says, "I am your one and only protector
on this planet. "I'll protect you until the end. "If I ever die,
this is our only way to communicate with our home."
- Max - Cal
- Michael - Tic-tac
- Isabel - *?
Then our theories seem to be walking that line...Jesse is Isabel's
protector and you correct about that being Zan !! Maybe thats why he
cannot move his left arm ...hit by a truck I'd say could do that to
your arm That'd be cool !
quote:
Originally posted by QueenAmidala01:

another V symbol created by the lights behing liz
Ohh good catch!!!
So then is Maria's returning friend Khivar?! Or is he going to be
like emisaring everyone?
And how funny was that shot CU of Max's "spine" hehehe ...I dunno
[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: healersbabe ]
--------------------
"Max?" He opened his eyes and saw the hunger in her eyes. "Again?"
She nodded and bit her lip...
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 1110



Posted 11-07-2001 05:44 PM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Nani - I'm going to take a crack at your questions. I have now
rewatched both S&L and Control together, and taken notes - but doubt
I have time to post it all - so I'm going do two posts - one
answering your questions, and the second - when I have time of my
more detailed thoughts. BTW - welcome out of lurkdom!
quote:
Originally posted by nani:
Hello! I'm coming out of lurkdom to ask some questions/make some
comments.
1. Liz comes back to her role as a protector in "Control". Note
the similarities to MITC: She calls to Max from a distance and
saves him from impendig doom. In this episode he is hesitant to
take the call, takes him a few seconds to decide, but when he does
the ship crashes.
You raise a good point! If Max had gotten on the ship when the
entry beam first appears, he may have been killed in the crash. So
Liz's timing is essential - though he probably does not even
realize it!! (Ingrateful Royalty!! ) I'm still up-set at his
reaction to her calling him - it was very cold, and uncaring! His
alien side is not very likeable at all!
2. Why did Langley jumped to the conclusion that Max mated with
another hybrid? Why not a human? Is there something we don't know?
Can humans and hybrids procreate? Hybrids have human dna, so...
You raise a good question. Many moons ago we had a long discussion
re: whether Hybrid can even procreate or not - with the conclusion
being (I think) that they can't, but as we all know, Roswell is
stronger on the "fiction" than on the "science." But I too
wondered "why" Cal jumped to this conclusion - and why he never
referred to the whole "destiny" stuff!
3. If the Antarians are such an advance race how come the
resistance didn't check on the podsters after a while? Is this
some kind of exhile for the overthrown king? Is Tess really in
Antar, for some reason I don't think she is Atarian.
Multiple questions - I believe that the podsters (including Liz)
are being watched - but by who?? I do like to think there is a
Good Watcher out there. But I agree - the advanceness of the
Antarians seems to vary depending on who is writing the script,
and is not consistently portrayed. If they were capable of
creating the Hybrids, etc. ...! I don't think Exile, but maybe a
"learning, and growing," opportunity!! Tess, Tess, Tess, Who
knows what we are to think of Tess??? Reggie will tell you one
thing, and well, most the rest of us will tell you another, but
the Charater was developed so poorly, that who knows? She could be
the true "bride," an innocent and victimized clone, an evil
traitor, ... You get to pick for now!
4. What really happen in Antar? Max doesn't sound like a good king
according to Langley and BTW, Why did Langley had to hapeshift to
get in the ship? What would happen to Max's human form?
What really happened on Antar is the true $64K question - wouldn't
we all like to know - and who is telling the truth. I think Max's
actions as he "searchs for his alien side" speak for themself.
Selfish, Cruel, and Ungrateful!! Sounds like a pretty awful king
to me. (And what Mother wouldn't think her son wasn't beloved??)
Cal SS'ing is a good question, but maybe he needed all his
"senses" to run the ship, and he only had these in is "true" form.
But Max's human form didn't seem to be an obsticle, but he wasn't
going to be flying the ship. BTW - I have a little theory about
why Cal didn't want to go, but I'll include that later.
That is all for now -
Zero
FAN!
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 966



Posted 11-07-2001 06:03 PM (IP Logged)
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nani
Dedicated Fan


Thank you Zero for taking a hit at my questions. Oh! how I wish that
the writers fix the pending chads! But the again:this is Roswell!
I must now return to the lurkingdom
See ya later
nani
--------------------
"...Whenever I want you all I have to do, is dream..."
Login Name: nani3 | Joined: Jan 2001 | Posts: 111



Posted 11-07-2001 06:37 PM (IP Logged)
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Essence
Part-Time Fan

First, know that I have not seen the ep yet (Philly area won't get
it until Saturday), but reading the Critic's thread made me wonder
something. They are discussing whether or not Liz acted incorrectly
and rude towards Max's mother when his Mom asked for Max's phone
number. This behavior from Liz is very unLizlike and I was wondering
- by Max leaning more toward his alien side (and thereby becoming
more selfish) does this somehow affect Liz and her behavior as well?
Are they so connected (for the reasons we discuss here) that one's
behavior internally affects the other. This season Liz has been very
much not Liz while Max has been running towards his alien origins.
From the discussions I have been reading, it seems at the end that
Max starts to show some remorse and a glimps of his former human
self. It also seems that Liz regained a part of herself by standing
up to him. (Again, I have not seen the episode.) Then Max lies to
Liz by telling her that he stayed for her - AlienMax again. And Liz
accepts this and forgives him - dormatLiz again. Does any of this
make sense?
--------------------
Essence-The intrinsic properties that serve to characterize or
identify something.
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 86



Posted 11-07-2001 07:37 PM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


I have now watched "Secrets & Lies" and "Control" together, back to
back, and have some observations to add to my "gut" reactions that I
posted earlier! I'm going to number them for ease of reading.
1. Max's License number is New Mexico - 619 W5H
2. The "killer" walking away from Ferini's murder is not a bald guy
- which means it can't be Cal Langley since we find out that he does
not SS. If the "glow" that is emanating from that being is the
SS'ing glow we have all come to know, than Cal must be working with
another (at least 1) SS. This plays into my theory that Tic Tac is a
separate and distinct SS, that maybe has worked with Cal to "watch"
the Pod Squad.
3. Grampa Valenti was on the 3rd Floor of the nursing home. BTW - I
have to add I loved Liz working with Kyle - I thought they were very
cute together. Both these actors have such natural rapport with
other actors, they could easily center story after story on Liz
and/or Kyle! (If only we would get away from the alien-centric
focus! You don't have to be an alien to have been wildly impacted by
the aliens' presence - as we all know all too well!) ALSO - Why
didn't they continue this storyline into Control?? I felt left
hanging without some continuation of the Liz/Kyle videotaping - oh I
forgot, Kyle wasn't even in Control!
4. Grampa Valenti was last visited by Valenti on 9/24/2000. S&L ends
on 10/31/2001 - the day Valenti returns to visit his dad at the
nursing home.
5. Grampa V has a picture of a Wolf and one of a Parrot on his wall.
6. Grampa V refers to "They Are Among Us" when he grabs Liz. This is
a B-movie made in the "50's" in the Roswell area. No exact date
given - for some reason I thought it was 1959 - but I found no
specific reference on second viewing. We might assume though that
the Atherton book, "Among Us" was the inspiration for the movie??
And Atherton was murdered in 1959. Whoever killed the lead actress -
who did look a bit like Tess and/or Topolsky - and Ferini liked to
"fry" them completely - thus, the belief in a lightning strike. But
then, all the killings could be viewed that way if it wasn't for the
Handprint in the killings we are knowledgeable about. They Are Among
Us is 87 minutes long.
7. I'm still trying to figure out how Liz came up with the "Base
Form" theory for SS'ing. But do they all have a "Base Form" of a
Middle Aged Bald Guy?? Harding, Langley - both fit this description.
Beware middle aged bald guy in the future! Regardless - I love that
Liz is still the one with the brains - or at least the one that
seems to use the brain given her!
8. The Note disintegrates like the Skins' shedded skin. Umm… ?? I
tend to agree with whoever mentioned it may just be budget/saving on
special effects - but, it could mean more … ???
9. Cal Langley was a Clapper Loader (this one is for you Grace Kel!)
- CL/CL!!
10. Ferrini's phone number was 213-555-8199. I now realize that 555
is the "TV" prefix. His address was 1651 Eastborne.
11. Liz lights a red candle will talking to Max on the phone - and
the candle has a "t" on it.
12. Mrs. Evans does a "time-out" sign right after Iz tells them
about her engagement. (This is the only part of the entire wedding
storyline I liked - other than I agree with Mrs. Evans throughout
both episodes - I don't understand the "rush" to get married! If I
was Mrs. Evans, I would be freaking out too - and I think she is
showing great restraint!)
13. (Start of Control Observations) Cal Langley is completely
suspicious of Max - "Why are you here?" "Who are you working with?"
IF he was watching the Pod Squad closely, he should know the answer
to these questions. But - though he appears to know a lot about them
- he obviously does not know everything.
14. Cal knew the ship was in Utah - obviously, before Max found it -
and did not want it found.
15. Theory - Cal works with FIRE - saw that in the storage vault,
etc. What happened when the Skins got too close to killing the Pod
Squad - a wall of fire destroys them!! We have always assumed that
Tess was responsible for that fire - though could never understand
how a mind warp could become real, and Tess herself did NOT
understand what happened. Remember - also in Wipeout we had the
being with the strange eyesight watching Maria and Liz - that most
of us thought was not a skin! WELL - WHAT IF it was Cal or his
cohorts watching, and coming to the rescue at the last moment!! All
Cal had to do was keep Max alive, but he might have enjoyed watching
a "Selfish and Ungrateful" Ruler being tortured a bit. (Make Sense?)
16. Who were the flunkies that remove Max from the storage vault?
Maybe other aliens??
17. Iz wants an April wedding - isn't this the official month of the
V formation, and it is the "4th" month of the year.
18. Both Iz and Maria call Max "So Spoiled!" And "Who is Jesse
Ramirez??"
19. Cal knew that the Air Force had reassembled the ship, but that
it would never fly BEFORE he ever found it on the base or tried to
fly it.
20. Off Topic a bit, but HOW IS MAX PAYING FOR ALL THIS??? He
doesn't have a job, but he can still afford his cell phone? Umm …
Maybe he is making money out of paper?
21. Maria refers to Liz as "totally Romeo and Juliet" - but I'm a
bit tired of that comparison!
22. BIG THEORY - Why does Cal want to stay on Earth? I get the
impression that on Antar there are different "classes" of beings -
and that Cal was breed to be a worker bee, "Encoded in his Genes" to
protect the "Selfish and Ungrateful" king. (Think of an ant colony -
with the distinctions based on birth and physical being.) So, on
Antar, Cal is nothing but a "protector" ant - or maybe the
equivalent of a slave - but on Earth, Cal is a "Powerful Producer."
Who would want to give that up!! I really felt for Cal when he
pleaded to Max to not make him go back!
23. Okay - if Cal doesn't have developed senses of touch, taste or
smell (though the other two senses seem find - though maybe the
eyesight is weirded out a bit), WHY did Harding enjoy sex with
Congresswoman Whitaker soo much?? Can you spell CHAD? This never
seemed to be an issue with Harding who appeared to shapeshift
regularly!
24. Cal claims to have "Embraced his human-side" and hasn't SS'd in
years. I'd need to quote here, but he said that something about the
first 30 years being hard, in 1978 smelling Chlorine in a pool,
followed by Lemons, and the last 20 years being a bust; however,
don't feel sorry for him, because he loves his life! IF Cal has not
been SS at all over the last multiple decades, he has to have been
working with someone else who has?
25. Max's Cell Phone number is 505-555-0146.
26. Cal has won 4 Academy Awards - if true, that would be impressive
by any standard!
27. Love the Max - "You Can see through metal?" Cal - "No, it's the
only building big enough to hold the ship!" I think Cal and Liz
would get along so much better!! I hope we haven't seen the last of
him, and he becomes another in a long list of "where are they now?"
28. The best special effects of the season was Cal SS'ing, the beam
of light, and him looking back with a "Do you realize what you are
making me do?" look!! Great scene!!
29. Did I say Max was "Selfish and Ungrateful" yet?? Max is such a
Royal A$$! But I've already gone there, though on second viewing, he
still makes my blood run cold. And all the begging for forgiveness
in the world will not redeem him if he continues to act so
"spoiled."
30. WHO actually believe Max now when he says "I'll Never Leave You
Liz!"?? I think I've heard this before. We know from the walk on the
dock that Max is not being totally truthful with Liz! And I think
she knows it too! Only time will tell if he can redeem himself - but
as of now, the hole keeps getting deeper and deeper! I'm glad Cal
told Max he will "never stop hating" him!
Essence - and I do think Liz was rude to Mrs. Evans - unnecessarily!
I did NOT understand this at all! She could have told her she
couldn't give her the info, but in a nice way. Very out of
Character!
Okay - that is enough - reactions??
Zero
FAN!
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 966



Posted 11-07-2001 08:48 PM (IP Logged)
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Essence
Part-Time Fan

quote:
Originally posted by Zero:
15. Theory - Cal works with FIRE - saw that in the storage vault,
etc. What happened when the Skins got too close to killing the Pod
Squad - a wall of fire destroys them!! We have always assumed that
Tess was responsible for that fire - though could never understand
how a mind warp could become real, and Tess herself did NOT
understand what happened. Remember - also in Wipeout we had the
being with the strange eyesight watching Maria and Liz - that most
of us thought was not a skin! WELL - WHAT IF it was Cal or his
cohorts watching, and coming to the rescue at the last moment!!
All Cal had to do was keep Max alive, but he might have enjoyed
watching a "Selfish and Ungrateful" Ruler being tortured a bit.
(Make Sense?)
Zero, I posted something like this a little ways up:
Asking for opinions here. When we saw the funny vision (looking
through the eyes of someone/thing else in those past episodes),
would you say that happened at a time when the podsters might have
needed help from a protector? Maybe it was Cal or someone/thing
working for Cal.
Obviously, you worded it better. But that is exactly what I was
thinking.
Also, you may not have realized it when you typed it, this supports
the theory as well:
quote:
Okay - if Cal doesn't have developed senses of touch, taste or
smell (though the other two senses seem find - though maybe the
eyesight is weirded out a bit)
WEIRDED OUT EYESIGHT. I think we have experienced it first hand!
[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Essence ]
--------------------
Essence-The intrinsic properties that serve to characterize or
identify something.
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 86



Posted 11-07-2001 09:27 PM (IP Logged)
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healersbabe
Addicted Fan


Zero : firstly may I congratulate you on finally loading up your old
avatar !! It just wasn't the same scrolling thru pages and not
seeing your av and Shapeshifter's!
quote:
Originally posted by Zero:
The "killer" walking away from Ferini's murder is not a bald guy -
which means it can't be Cal Langley since we find out that he does
not SS.
Whoever killed the lead actress - who did look a bit like Tess
and/or Topolsky - and Ferini liked to "fry" them completely -
thus, the belief in a lightning strike.
Regardless - I love that Liz is still the one with the brains - or
at least the one that seems to use the brain given her!
Theory - Cal works with FIRE - saw that in the storage vault, etc.
What happened when the Skins got too close to killing the Pod
Squad - a wall of fire destroys them!! We have always assumed that
Tess was responsible for that fire - though could never understand
how a mind warp could become real, and Tess herself did NOT
understand what happened.
My favorites of everything you found !!
And I also couldn't believe how RUDE Liz was to Mrs. Evans . Why the
heck did she brush her off like that ? Poor Mrs. Evans is trying so
hard to reason her kids and she's been such an excellent mother it
seriously pissed me off that Liz did that !! Not to mention Max
being so cold to her ! OH! And on the brain topic wasn't that a just
a bit UNMAXish that he figured out that Cal had to act on his orders
a bit QUICK for Max, and that he couldn't kill him? Since when does
Max think? And how funny was that shot of Max's spine?
...anyways.....
I've been looking for this pic for the longest time ! Now that we
know a bit more about Jesse Ramirez and what's going on this season
I think this could also be the set up?

Mirror Images
Protector: JESSE......................PROTECTOR: MR. VALENTI
HUMAN/HYBRID: MARIA .............HUMAN/HYBRID: KYLE
MAX (in back)........................ LIZ (in front)
ALIEN: ISABEL.........................ALIEN: MICHAEL

[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: healersbabe ]
--------------------
"Max?" He opened his eyes and saw the hunger in her eyes. "Again?"
She nodded and bit her lip...
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 1110



Posted 11-07-2001 09:59 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



I'm too sleepy to be very coherent, but good point that Liz once
again kept some big lethal object from falling on Max when she
called him from far away.
So if according to Langely, Max can only mate with another hybrid,
then he & Liz can't have kids. This would explain the need for the
SPOT plotline. And it would go along with the Virgin Mary metaphor
for Liz (see Season 1 Theory).
I really think that Cal was the dude in the coat leaving the toasted
guy and also leaving the burned pictures in BD. He could wear a wig,
right Zero?
He could be burning a picture of the podsters that Nasedo and/or
Tess had in an attempt to protect their identities. But why did he
know about Liz and not about Tess?
I really want him to also be the Latino rancher at the end of SH,
but...
I didn't have any problem with Liz telling Mrs. Evans, "I can't help
you." I didn't think it was rude, just what she felt she had to do.
But I realize I'm in the minority here, even Maria thinks so!
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2536



Posted 11-07-2001 10:38 PM (IP Logged)
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healersbabe
Addicted Fan


quote:
Originally posted by shapeshifter:
I'm too sleepy to be very coherent, but good point that Liz once
again kept some big lethal object from falling on Max when she
called him from far away.
You guys are so good at this! That totally flew over my head. So
what that's third save?
quote:
So if according to Langely, Max can only mate with another hybrid,
then he & Liz can't have kids. This would explain the need for the
SPOT plotline. And it would go along with the Virgin Mary metaphor
for Liz (see Season 1 Theory).
Ahhhh! That would be cool! You sure are making good points for being
sleepy SS!!
quote:
I really think that Cal was the dude in the coat leaving [b]the
toasted guy and also leaving the burned pictures in BD. He could
wear a wig, right Zero?
ROTFLMAO...
quote:
I really want him to also be the Latino rancher at the end of SH,
but...
I hope they don't make him evil!! Besides not that would just a tad
bit too too obvious if he was Khivar. I thought maybe he was being
funny when he said "maybe we could torch the barn"?!? Maybe thats
what happened in the past wedding?!? And if Max slept with the enemy
doesn't that make HIM the betrayer now?!?
I'm still with Essence on how rude Liz was. But then again from the
way she talks to her own mom maybe Liz just isn't good with parents
especially those from her dude.
--------------------
"Max?" He opened his eyes and saw the hunger in her eyes. "Again?"
She nodded and bit her lip...
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 1110



Posted 11-07-2001 10:41 PM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Essence - I totally missed what you were getting at - but to be
honest, I've been skim reading today due to a crazy schedule, and a
need to "express myself." But obviously, "great minds think alike"
- and I'm glad I wasn't out in left field thinking what I said! That
is the great thing about this thread is the validation one gets for
some of our "strang" theories or takes on things.
Healersbabe - thanks for the compliment about my Avatar - which I
owe to Shapeshifter for creating and helping me figure out how to
load again. I too was missing seeing it. It conveys so much!
Shapeshifter - Yea - Cal could have had a wig on, and it could have
been him - but I still want to believe that there are other SS out
there! And this kind of supported that belief - but you are right, a
Hollywood big-wig should be able to access lots of ways to "change"
their look without actually SS'ing! But the glowing gave me the
impression that some SS'ing was going on!
Okay - I think I have posted enough today to last a week, so see you
all later!
Zero
FAN!
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 966



Posted 11-07-2001 10:57 PM (IP Logged)
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DreamerAtHeart
Dedicated Fan


Hi, All!
I had a few comments and observations, but it looks like everything
I thought and saw has been covered.
I meant to post this before "Control." When re-watching Secrets&Lies
I also noticed that Valenti Sr. was on the Third Floor. Also, this
ties in with THREE generations of Valenti's lives being affected by
aliens from the crash. Also, when Max auditions for the Star Trek
roll there's a poster behind Frisk (?) for a fake movie (?) called
"Light Year 3000."
Not much else right now. I need to get to sleep. Keep up the good
mything!
Question: What kind of jobs to you all have that you can browse this
board and post during the middle of the day?
--------------------
DreamerAtHeart
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 239



Posted 11-07-2001 10:59 PM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Loyal Fan

shapeshifter, you asked about the symbolism of the 13x9 pan. So far,
all I can think of is that the 13 is like yet another 1+3
combination (where I presume M/M/I are the 3 and Liz is the 1).
Joined: Dec 99 | Posts: 994



Posted 11-07-2001 11:35 PM (IP Logged)
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QueenAmidala01
Obsessed Fan


i don't know if this has been discussed..it probably has been
already since u are all intelligent people
why where the podsters made into hybrids in the first place
i mean the protectors nesado and tic tac could shapeshift so what
the use of being human.....sure you'll get the human powers but did
the aliens want them to have a more different personality not like
their old selves
or is it to connect earth wih the galatic empire
--------------------
"When humans want rides they take Jetta's.
When tess want a ride she takes her tractor
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 1927



Posted 11-08-2001 12:01 AM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Extreme Fan


DreamerAtHeart I too noticed the third floor right away and thought
3 generations of Valenti's affected by aliens!!!
Zero--as for Cal Langley--I put the mute button on and his name is
spelled with a K-Kal Langley--so clapperloader doesn't work with
this LOL--I will tell you though they really made it a point to
feature Kal's license plate U I OWN.
Zero I thought the pic was a COYOTE in Valenti Sr's nursing home
room???? NO??? Are you sure the other was a parrot??? I thought it
looked like a blackbird or a bluebird?
Okay another thing I noticed in Season1 Valenti Sr tells Jim Valenti
Jr that the PEARS ARE SLIPPERY---and Jim says well maybe you need
some help with this?????
Well I noticed in this episode we have 2 PEARS(pic plaques) on the
wall in Evans house--also showed a big plate of LEMONS and PEARS at
Kal's mansion?
The sign DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE is featured right as Max and Kal enter
the room with the space ship in it. I also noticed the word ALARM
featured right behind Kal when instructing Max about how to proceed
with ship boarding?
Kal has a PIERCED ear?
Noticed the AIR sign featured in the EVANS home--behind Mrs
Evans?Why??? Mrs Evans was doing laundry, boy Mrs Parker and Mrs
Evans heavy into the laundry hmmmm.
I wanted to bring up the points about what we have heard about ZAN
the KING----in Meet the Dupes--Lonnie says about Max, "he will go
for the deal, he's a total cornball, he will go for the deal because
it is for the GREATER GOOD?" Now why would a selfish, ungrateful
King care about the GREATER GOOD? To me this is a contradiction???
And again Larek said "to see you trying so hard to make a better
world for your people?" "I told you you were trying to do too much,
too soon?" Does this sound like a selfish and ungrateful king? Ava
said of Zan that he was stubborn, but always tried to DO THE RIGHT
THING? Again a bit contradictory?
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2138



Posted 11-08-2001 12:07 AM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Extreme Fan


Oh Shapeshifter--the idea that Liz can't have children and that only
Tess can makes me extremely ILL quite frankly--I agree though the
hint was there--I hope this was FALSE really--I hate that idea.
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2138



Posted 11-08-2001 12:10 AM (IP Logged)
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QueenAmidala01
Obsessed Fan


hows season 3 goin for u guys...we finished heart of mine and for
other states HTOHL
--------------------
"When humans want rides they take Jetta's.
When tess want a ride she takes her tractor
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 1927



Posted 11-08-2001 12:30 AM (IP Logged)
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shaiwon72
Addicted Fan


hello. i haven't been here for a long while.
sorry if it's mentioned. i skimmed the previous posts.
gracekel.. i agree. the thought that liz and max can't have kids and
that he can w/ only tess sickens me. ugh. i really curious as to why
the genetic make up of the podsters would result in an offspring w/
an another hybrid and not a pure breed. i wish kal would elaborate
on that. just the fact that max had only said that he needs to save
his son and immediately kal deduced that, an explanation is
warranted.
the thing that i find interesting was that kal was programmed (in
his genes) to obey any orders that the king commands. and as
reluctant as kal was, he did it, because it was his job. the
difference between ed and kal came to mind. ed didn't seem to be the
"following" protector. ed was more of guiding the podsters, rather
than protect them. protect them fromt the feds, to carry out the
deal is more in the lines of thinking. i wonder if ed is really a
protector. if he is, he must be the dupes' protector or he was
planted by kivar to be a "protector".
if kal's job was to know all there is to know about the podsters, he
must have known that ed was killed. kal could easily have made
himself known and step up to protect them. heck, he was in roswell
during that movie filming. but what if kal found out about ed and
his deal. what if kal was really the one that killed ed and not the
skins. that the skins were partially involved in the kill? when
courtney was killed, we don't see the star mark at all. why a star
mark in the center of ed's chest. if kal is of ranking importance to
the podsters, don't most ranking official have stars or stripes
added on for recognition? so if ed was killed by an official, thus
leave the mark of a star behind? we never did find the identity of
the thermal vision being from wipeout. what if was kal?
--------------------
Emjay
PEACE!!
dreamer?..it was lost in a foolish quest.
Joined: Jul 00 | Posts: 1326



Posted 11-08-2001 07:48 AM (IP Logged)
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Essence
Part-Time Fan

quote:
Originally posted by healersbabe:
I'm still with Essence on how rude Liz was. But then again from
the way she talks to her own mom maybe Liz just isn't good with
parents especially those from her dude.
As I've said, I haven't seen the episode. But from what I'm hearing,
I don't think it's that Liz wouldn't tell Mrs. Evans, but more the
WAY she told Mrs. Evans and apparently she and Maria laughed about
it afterwards. What is that about?!
Would we have thought Liz was wrong if she had given the number to
Mrs. Evans and in doing so interfered in Max's business with how he
is handling his family (even though he is doing that extremely
poorly along with everything else in his life)?
I'm very excited about seeing this one. REALLY can't wait to see Max
get his royal a$$ kicked!
--------------------
Essence-The intrinsic properties that serve to characterize or
identify something.
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 86



Posted 11-08-2001 07:57 AM (IP Logged)
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Essence
Part-Time Fan

So, is Brody gone from the show , or do you think Max will actually
use his brain and phone home to ask about his son? Or does that make
too much sense?
--------------------
Essence-The intrinsic properties that serve to characterize or
identify something.
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 86



Posted 11-08-2001 09:12 AM (IP Logged)
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Indygal
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally posted by Alexis:
Was I the only one that noticed Max doesn't have use of his left
arm in the final scene? No one walks without swinging their arms
somewhat!
I felt like Max was uncomfortable with his body. He wanted to run to
Liz but did not feel entitled to her affection. I thought Jason did
a wonderful job in portraying that awkwardness. . .I certainly
"felt" it!
Joined: Jun 2000 | Posts: 338



Posted 11-08-2001 09:16 AM (IP Logged)
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Indygal
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally posted by nani:
Hello! I'm coming out of lurkdom to ask some questions/make some
comments.
1. Liz comes back to her role as a protector in "Control". Note
the similarities to MITC: She calls to Max from a distance and
saves him from impendig doom. In this episode he is hesitant to
take the call, takes him a few seconds to decide, but when he does
the ship crashes.
WOW! I didn't catch that! Hmmmmmmmmm. . ..
Joined: Jun 2000 | Posts: 338



Posted 11-08-2001 09:46 AM (IP Logged)
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StephStephSteph
Obsessed Fan


Quick comments as today is as busy as yesterday.
Good point, Zero about the "light from the SS" after he kills
Ferrini. I totally assumed it was Cal and even if there appears to
be hair? Well, that's not enough to convince me otherwise, BUT.. the
light! And Cal doesn't SS! Oh, PLEASE let there be another SS!
Steph softly chants.. tic.. tac.. tic.. tac..
quote:
Originally posted by GraceKel:
Oh Shapeshifter--the idea that Liz can't have children and that
only Tess can makes me extremely ILL quite frankly--I agree though
the hint was there--I hope this was FALSE really--I hate that
idea.
ITA! Did Cal actually say that Max couldn't reproduce with a human
or did he simply say something about matting with his alien hybrid!?
Someone please tell me it's the latter!!!
--------------------
Steph
RBI~Dreamer~Behrian
*Bull Ridin' Behrian Boogie Diva*
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 1852



Posted 11-08-2001 10:29 AM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Extreme Fan


Essence I agree wouldn't it make perfect sense for him to phone home
through BRODY again, but I guess they could use the excuse that
BRODY went a little CRAZY there in OFF THE MENU and they don't want
to risk Brody's life to seek answers.
If Langley is PROGRAMMED to obey like we were told in this
episode--why wouldn't Max ask for the entire history of ANTAR, his
life as well as Isabel's and Michaels explained in great
detail---afterall how can you stop history from repeating itself if
you don't know what to avoid????? I realize they don't want to give
away too much in their story--but there should be a more intelligent
way to write this than to make Max look like a total imbecile for
not even asking?
Another thing I noticed---when Mrs Evans goes into Isabels planner
to retrieve Max's cell phone number--right there is a CD(?) I think
with a girl/woman on a HORSE?
Another reference is when Windy suggests a new Carriage Company(cc's
again) and a horse with GOLD tassels? Isabel says she never liked
horses? Hey I don't write it, they can laugh all they want--they are
the ones who keep writing about horses?
Also another thought--don't know if it is relevant or not--the fact
that the note disintegrated like the SKINS--and while Max and
Langley are out at the pool---Langley talks to NICKY BABY---could
this be NICHOLAS???? or just a coincidence?
Langleys hat and look reminded me of the guy in Summer of 47 outside
of Rosemary's window when Hal caught someone looking from out there?
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2138



Posted 11-08-2001 10:33 AM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Extreme Fan


Oh one more thing I noticed--Langley talks about finally enjoying
the tastes of LEMONS---and I noticed in second episode--the SNAPPLE
eppy--that Kyle is drinking LEMONADE-LOL!!!!
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2138



Posted 11-08-2001 11:34 AM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



GraceKel & Shaiwon, I don't have time to do justice in responding to
your excellent observations (lunch break).
But about those very obvious pears: Pears are often symbols of
fertility (pregnancy). We have 2. Maybe Isabel next?
Can anyone tell if the U I OWN license plate was for real? Qfanny
said that they had a limited supply of plates when they were with
the WB, but Paramount probably has more props. Regardless, they
certainly focused on it. So who owns whom? It seemed that Max
"owned" Langely, so does that mean Max owns everything that Langely
owns? Anyway, Langely is going to want Max dead for sure.
Liz to the rescue! NO DOUBT
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2536



Posted 11-08-2001 11:45 AM (IP Logged)
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StephStephSteph
Obsessed Fan


quote:
Originally posted by GraceKel:
Also another thought--don't know if it is relevant or not--the
fact that the note disintegrated like the SKINS--and while Max and
Langley are out at the pool---Langley talks to NICKY BABY---could
this be NICHOLAS???? or just a coincidence?
Your thoughts tie into my thought about WHY did the note
disintegrate like a Skin!? And why didn't Max question that? Can Cal
do some sort of "magical paper creation" or was it a Skin he wrote
on or is it magic paper from Antar or was he nearby and "poofed it
away" when he saw Max read it!? All these questions and not so many
answers.. typical.
--------------------
Steph
RBI~Dreamer~Behrian
*Bull Ridin' Behrian Boogie Diva*
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 1852



Posted 11-08-2001 02:25 PM (IP Logged)
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peej
New Fan

Hi
Ok in regards to the baby issue. I think the reason it was said that
max had sex with a hybrid is because, why would max need to find a
ship in order to find his child if he had gotten a human pregnant.
I really loved this ep. I am really hoping that this is the start
for someone new between max and Liz. I think with all the things,
such as the song, haircut, tears- that max will treat Liz the way
she is meant to be treated. That was a great catch on Liz saving max
from the ship falling on him, once again. Now I am just waiting for
the changes that have happened to liz. (In regards to max saving
her)
Joined: Feb 2001 | Posts: 34



Posted 11-08-2001 06:16 PM (IP Logged)
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mezz
Dedicated Fan

This - alien side is the bad side - thing is interesting. I posted
something a little similar on the JB control discussion board and
then came and saw that some people are saying the same thing.
I said, just as a joke, maybe the alien nation looked to earth
because they were scientifically advanced but morally and
emotionally void. They sent the royal 4 to earth to better
themselves and made them hybrids in hopes that the human side would
become the dominant. Therefore everytime Max tends towards his alien
side he makes bad emotional decisions. (Not that I think that humans
always make great decisions so you have to wonder what those
antarians were thinking! )
But wanted to post to say:
Michael has improved lots since he has embraced his human side.
The Dupes were regarded as the rejects and they were much more in
touch with their alien side.
This is interesting even though the theory is full of holes. Like -
if they were sent here to bring more humanity to the race then
wouldn't the idea be to mate with fully humans to tip the balance as
it were?
But perhaps it explains why the antarians were prepared to wait so
long for the royal 4 to come back and save them because they knew
they had to wait for them to grow into their human souls and to
gradually soak up the humanness that surrounds them on earth.
(Perhaps they are not wanting them to come back and save the planet
from war but come and save the planet from decay (As I said
before...what were these antarians thinking? ) Perhaps the
protectors are to stop them coming into contact with too many aliens
who would hinder their growth and transformation. Perhaps that is
why they are so hesitant to give out any information in regard to
the planet and its situation because it would only strengthen the
ties to Antar before they are fully 'matured' as humanitarians.
I'm talking through my hat. But does this make any sense at all?
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 119



Posted 11-08-2001 07:25 PM (IP Logged)
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Jrozwel
New Fan

WOW!! all this new info has opened a whole new look on roswell.
--------------------
john
Joined: Nov 2001 | Posts: 2



Posted 11-08-2001 08:42 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



quote:
Originally posted by peej:
Hi
Ok in regards to the baby issue. I think the reason it was said
that max had sex with a hybrid is because, why would max need to
find a ship in order to find his child if he had gotten a human
pregnant...
Hey peej
I'll buy that theory. I bet we all will. I bet we'd put enough money
on that theory to keep the show afloat! But, sighhhh, it does mean
Tex was real too. Ah well, at least he's repentent...sort of.
quote:
Originally posted by mezz:
...maybe the alien nation looked to earth because they were
scientifically advanced but morally and emotionally void. They
sent the royal 4 to earth to better themselves and made them
hybrids in hopes that the human side would become the dominant.
...
...(Not that I think that humans always make great decisions so
you have to wonder what those antarians were thinking! )...
Ditto! Silly Atarians! And I think we have serious evidence that
they engineered the flying jelly fish as well.
Okay, a new theory for a new season based on your post, mezz:
We've seen that shapeshifters are pretty much 'cold-blooded'
murders. Skins too. So I guess the niceness factor could be
relative. And it gives Max (and Michael and Isabel) a good,
devil-made-me-do-it excuse whenever they are being not too nice.
But maybe the Antarians are also not too nice to their offspring
(the mommygram aside since it could have been a Tess-o-warp). So
maybe they selected Earth (and made them human) because humans
generally care for their young. The protectors didn't realize
Michael's home was disfunctional because compared to Antar, it
wasn't so bad (until Michael got so p---ed off that he revealed his
power).
So then, the reason Son Of Max is in trouble is because Antarians
are such bad parents.
And if we can bring baby home for Liz to care for, it will preserve
her chaste image but allow her to show her compassionate side.
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2536



Posted 11-08-2001 09:25 PM (IP Logged)
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Style
Dedicated Fan

Grace I have to agree with you on that one
Although, S3, the supposedly paring up with Hybrid and Human, makes
you wonder, per se, sci-fi aspect.
Kal Langley, Max's protector, as well as Michael & Isabel's. When
Max told Kal about his son, Kal was more in shock, to me, than
anything esle.
It's "sorta" made you wonder, if in fact, the purpose of sending the
(3) royals to earth, coupled with human dna, was to alter their
previously, selfish and ungrafeful ways (not defending us humans),
but to learn about true feelings such as compassion, love, and in
general, hope.
That said, I figure that the scientist understood the human
biological structure of humans. Therefore, created the royal
Antarians to be able to breed with the humans. With the strengths of
both species, their children, one day to return back to Antar, to
defeat Khivar, and bring their people back into harmony.
There was a definite reason to send them to earth. Not to run away,
but to re-group.
Style

Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 327



Posted 11-08-2001 09:37 PM (IP Logged)
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shaiwon72
Addicted Fan


there's just something on my mind that popped up. (sorry if it's
been discussed) from s1, when liz kissed max/nacedo, thinking he was
max, we see that worm hole image, w/ a female, in the desert and
lightening. now it was speculated that kal killed that actress and
she died of a freak lightening storm. how could that story and the
vision liz saw be linked? either it was really nacedo that killed
that woman and ss as kal or kal killed that woman and nacedo
witness/ helped in that. the question is what was the motive for her
murder. it was the briefest of images, and the meaning of those
images, weren't answered. just clues.
you think if liz kissed kal, she'll get the answer?
--------------------
Emjay
PEACE!!
dreamer?..it was lost in a foolish quest.
Joined: Jul 00 | Posts: 1326



Posted 11-08-2001 09:44 PM (IP Logged)
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peej
New Fan

hi
Originally posted by shapeshifter
"But, sighhhh, it does mean Tex was real too."
I sure hope not no no no…… the only thing that keeps me going on
this story line is that if there is a baby that its Liz somehow.
(with no tess max tex)
Perhaps the tex, baby didn't happen cause langely sure didn't know.
(Im wishing a lot) he mentioned how max's mother was feeling as
though she had lost him, so he oviously knows what's going on,
perhaps there is something he isn't sharing. Although he properly
would have said something to stop max from looking but then again
maybe he wants him gone. You know so he can enjoy his Hollywood
life. too much all these what ifs
Joined: Feb 2001 | Posts: 34



Posted 11-08-2001 09:47 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



shaiwon,
We're pretty sure the dead person Liz saw when she kissed Maxcedo
was Sheila Hubble. But good catch on the lightning she saw!
GraceKel, what do you make of Isabel's aversion to horses?

Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2556



Posted 11-08-2001 10:09 PM (IP Logged)
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nermal
Addicted Fan

I like it how they're discovering that the way to go is the human
way, and that the alien way will destroy their lives.
Liz, the anchor to Max's human side, is his salvation.
Joined: Jan 00 | Posts: 1278



Posted 11-08-2001 10:39 PM (IP Logged)
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Style
Dedicated Fan

It does not, their alien side will always remain, but with thought.
Apparently on Antar, I dunno, specs here, the Antarians' upper
division, forgot. But then again, just bad timing. They became to
powerful, and lost their concern for the people.
He, as Kal quoted, was a selfish and ungrateful ruler.
Kal was one of the SS that survived, Max and M&I's. Could Agent
Pirece, lied, and let him go, or was there more than two SS's. No
tic tac here????
Apparently SS tic tac knew about Liz and Max, and at that point
approved it. Why, the ORB. In my opinion, no one else would have
found it. It was Max & Liz.
Wow, here comes destiny, how else to keep the royals off guard,
mainly Max Evans. Then comes ETOW. What other forces are involved.
Khivar a most powerful being, can also, try and control, the royals
future on earth.
Are two forces again, but here on earth, battling? Does Kal Langley
truly know the truth, and have allowed the ones he is programed to
protect, become more human? And he knows if they don't, history is
repeat itself?
Style
ok I love this thread, why, hmmmmmmm, a lot of respect to each
poster. Thanks!
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 348



Posted 11-09-2001 07:53 AM (IP Logged)
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nani
Dedicated Fan


--------------------
"...Whenever I want you all I have to do, is dream..."
Login Name: nani3 | Joined: Jan 2001 | Posts: 114



Posted 11-09-2001 08:50 AM (IP Logged)
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StephStephSteph
Obsessed Fan


This is what I want to know - what happened to the FLASHES!?!
--------------------
Steph
RBI~Dreamer~Behrian
*Bull Ridin' Behrian Boogie Diva*
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 1854



Posted 11-09-2001 09:16 AM (IP Logged)
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avaSpeaks
Extreme Fan



Hey everybody
I KNEW that it was not meant for them to mate with each other,
looked at the SHOCK in Kal's reaction when Max told him that...it
was like disbelief...
Also, the importance of Tess...I'm beginning to believe that either
proto-Tess wasn't the best for proto-Max on Antar as well, and then
history repeated itself...Tess knowing this because of Nesedo
thought that it would be easy to complete her mission, however, Max
met his soulmate on Earth..Liz Parker...then there was an obstacle
to Tess's deception. So she waited till things fell apart, and she
added to taht by pushing [i[destiny[/i] until finally things begin
to crack and unravel.
Yes, I agree, that Kal approves of Liz...even though he didn't
mention her by name, the fact that he knew about Liz but yet didn't
know about Tess or what happened, shows me how important Liz is and
unimportant Tess is not....
Also think of it this way...on Antar, King Zan sister is always
mentioned, and we know his Mom was inportant, and then the thing
about his "queen".
Now, look at the people langely mentioned: his sister(Isabel), his
girlfriend(Liz) and his mother(Mrs. Evans) and if these women should
be the most important women in his life.
Could this be Max's "Royal Family" on Earth...and Max has not
realized this yet??? Thought?
--------------------
You are the most important thing in my life! Cole to Phoebe, Charmed
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2067



Posted 11-09-2001 09:21 AM (IP Logged)
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avaSpeaks
Extreme Fan



quote:
Originally posted by Style:
Grace I have to agree with you on that one
Although, S3, the supposedly paring up with Hybrid and Human,
makes you wonder, per se, sci-fi aspect.
Kal Langley, Max's protector, as well as Michael & Isabel's. When
Max told Kal about his son, Kal was more in shock, to me, than
anything esle.
It's "sorta" made you wonder, if in fact, the purpose of sending
the (3) royals to earth, coupled with human dna, was to alter
their previously, selfish and ungrafeful ways (not defending us
humans), but to learn about true feelings such as compassion,
love, and in general, hope.
That said, I figure that the scientist understood the human
biological structure of humans. Therefore, created the royal
Antarians to be able to breed with the humans. With the strengths
of both species, their children, one day to return back to Antar,
to defeat Khivar, and bring their people back into harmony.
There was a definite reason to send them to earth. Not to run
away, but to re-group.
Style
Totally agree with you on this!! What better way to hide from your
enemies than to intergret with humans...like the Skins did
Also, take a look at Tess and how she begin to melt a little when
she was around Kyle, perhaps if they didn't push the brother/sister
angle with each other, things might worked out...because she was
definetely becoming more human...
Or maybe Max, Mike, and Isabel are the most important ones, notice
Tess is always kinda left out of conversation, so was Ava.
I am happy that there is finally an alien that recognizes that Max
has somebody important in his life
--------------------
You are the most important thing in my life! Cole to Phoebe, Charmed
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2067



Posted 11-09-2001 12:05 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



Good point! Kal Langely recognizes Liz's Importance!
quote:
Originally posted by avaSpeaks:
...
Also, take a look at Tess and how she begin to melt a little when
she was around Kyle...
Definitely human influence is good for Antarians.
Hmmm...maybe the opposite is also true?
I read Carl Sagan's Contact over the summer. In it the first signals
the aliens pick up are the first TV broadcasts which are of Hitler's
speeches.
Maybe Antarians would have mellowed him out.
But then we also have Larek's take on King Zan as the benevolent
one. So who knows? :::shrug:::
quote:
Originally posted by avaSpeaks:
.... notice Tess is always kinda left out of conversation, so was
Ava.
and remember Courtney's line: 'trust me, nobody's after Tess.'
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2556



Posted 11-09-2001 01:44 PM (IP Logged)
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avaSpeaks
Extreme Fan



But Shapeshifter, how do we know that Tess didn't mindwarp or plant
those images in Larek's head...remember, he never had any kind of
problem talking with Liz about alien stuff and not only that, but
Larek didn't have no kind of reaction to Tess at the Summit meeting.
But he had no problem including Liz in on the conversation.
Simply put, if their "real" alien protector had no problem with Liz,
and told Max that he would had left her behind,
vs. Nesedo, who said that he was "Tess's" protector and pushing Max
to engage in "mating rituals" then I think it's pretty safe to
assume that Tess and Nesedo, and the Skins was on some bull****
And yet, nobody pushed Mike and Isabel, and yet flashes of everybody
mating only came when TESS appeared
Yeah right!!! Control tied up a lot of loose ends for me...they need
more eppys like that for the rest of the season
--------------------
You are the most important thing in my life! Cole to Phoebe, Charmed
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2067



Posted 11-09-2001 05:07 PM (IP Logged)
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Qfanny
Obsessed Fan

quote:
Originally posted by shapeshifter:
Can anyone tell if the U I OWN license plate was for real? Qfanny
said that they had a limited supply of plates when they were with
the WB, but Paramount probably has more props.
shapeshifter refers to my set visit during Cry Your Name funeral
scene. I had heard that they didn't have enough liscene plates to
for all the cars, (remember - they needed NM plates). I am not sure
how they resolved it, but I know that they had to keep moving the
plates when they needed a different angle. (BTW - I don't think that
really made it into the show. I'm not sure.)
Putting together a television in some ways is a rush job. There were
a lot of cars, people and equipment to consider. I can see a detail
of plates being overlooked. It was in a remote area, not near the
studios. It was probably easier to move the plates than to put
together the paperwork to rent the props and commute 2 hours on the
405. It's just something that happened and they worked around it.
With an except few, viewers probably would have never known the
difference.
I just took note of what I overheard because I thought it may lead
to some interesting mything.
[ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Qfanny ]
--------------------
From Nebraska
Qfanny/MOB14
Liz is not an alien
And there is no spam in responsibility!
Joined: Jul 00 | Posts: 1543



Posted 11-09-2001 06:01 PM (IP Logged)
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Reggie
Addicted Fan

Hey, everyone!
I missed the last episode, so far, because none of the ways I've had
to see it have worked out. (I don't get UPN at home, but a friend of
my sister's has a Big satellite dish and gets the early feeds for
us.) I even was in range of a UPN station in my truck when it was
on, but my good TV antenna had vanished, and the rabbit ears weren't
good enough! However...
Shapeshifters: I count three. One was Mr. Harding, etc. The second
was Dr. Margolin, etc., and ate tic-tacs. The third was the Trench
Coat Guy at the end of "Into The Woods". Remember, he re-lit
Michael's signal FIRE, and BURNED the photo. I think this last was
our only sighting of "Kal" before now. Tic-tac is still out there,
and may have been the guy with weird eyesight... except that that
would mean he could become invisible. Not buying that.
Max and the Golden Age: Well, many despots touted their rule as
ushering in a Golden Age: Hitler, Lenin, Mao, Iatollah Khomaini...
Even if you believe that they thought they were doing the right
things, they were in fact doing great evil. It could be that King
Zan was like that: he thought it was right, but he was wrong. And so
were his followers. (There are still Nazis, for example.)
The BEMlet: Of course Max bred with a hybrid to create it! If it was
his with a human (Liz), they wouldn't have needed to ship it off to
Twilo; certainly not with its human mother! Both Mom and BEMlet have
to be part alien, so he did it with a hybrid. (Probably not his
sister.)
Liz's Importance: Only if Max needs a doormat to wipe his feet on.
Really, any woman with an ounce of sense, or self-respect, would
have dumped this so-and-so Max long ago. Our beloved First Season
Liz would have smacked him in the head first...
--------------------
Roswell is not Roswell Roswell is not Roswell Roswell is not Roswell
Roswell is not Roswell
Joined: Jul 00 | Posts: 1257



Posted 11-09-2001 08:48 PM (IP Logged)
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nermal
Addicted Fan

It's funny that Liz Parker, future scientist, is in love with a
being created by a scientist.
Molecular biologist. Alien-human hybrid. Nah, couldn't be.
Joined: Jan 00 | Posts: 1278



Posted 11-09-2001 09:12 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



that's classic nermal posting.
Now I know this season's out of the woods (no pun intended ).
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2556



Posted 11-09-2001 10:46 PM (IP Logged)
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QueenAmidala01
Obsessed Fan


quote:
Originally posted by nermal:
I like it how they're discovering that the way to go is the human
way, and that the alien way will destroy their lives.
Liz, the anchor to Max's human side, is his salvation.
so this must be the reason why the antarians chose the human species
to save them......have the r4 hybredtised (i think im just making up
words as i go along ) into human form and personality so that their
human personality can save them and their worlds
so then the hybrids can beat kivar and because they have the
original r4 within them they can quicky stabilise Antar before it
would go into anarchy .....bacause there is no legitamate leader to
rule on antar as zan and ava were killed before they had an heir
--------------------
"When humans want rides they take Jetta's.
When tess want a ride she takes her tractor
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 1942



Posted 11-10-2001 12:07 AM (IP Logged)
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nermal
Addicted Fan

quote:
Originally posted by shapeshifter:
Now I know this season's out of the woods (no pun intended ).
I wish my post meant that but I'm not totally convinced it's more
like out of the woods and up a tree.
I just think it's a pretty big coincidence not to post it here,
where Liz is the center of the universe.
But it makes you think what your reaction would be to meeting your
Creator in the third grade.
Joined: Jan 00 | Posts: 1278



Posted 11-10-2001 04:54 PM (IP Logged)
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healersbabe
Addicted Fan


quote:
Originally posted by shaiwon72:
ed was more of guiding the podsters, rather than protect them.
protect them fromt the feds, to carry out the deal is more in the
lines of thinking. i wonder if ed is really a protector. if he is,
he must be the dupes' protector or he was planted by kivar to be a
"protector".
(...)what if kal was really the one that killed ed and not the
skins. that the skins were partially involved in the kill? when
courtney was killed, we don't see the star mark at all. why a star
mark in the center of ed's chest. if kal is of ranking importance
to the podsters, don't most ranking official have stars or stripes
added on for recognition? so if ed was killed by an official, thus
leave the mark of a star behind? we never did find the identity of
the thermal vision being from wipeout. what if was kal?
Ohhhhhh! That was good !! I think you're 1000% right !! It would
also fit into Cortney being Tess in the future state ! Member how
sad Tess got when she saw Cortney's picture back in Harvest ?!?
Excellent capture of lost strings and opening cool new doors New
stars for you ... ::puts new stars on Shai's forehead!!::
quote:
Originally posted by QueenAmidala01:
why where the podsters made into hybrids in the first place
i mean the protectors nesado and tic tac could shapeshift so what
the use of being human.....sure you'll get the human powers but
did the aliens want them to have a more different personality not
like their old selves
or is it to connect earth wih the galatic empire
Well I haven't been here when they started discussing this either
but you know new feedback always helps shed light back on current
issues and new chads . Whatcha have in mind? Dish it out!!
Zero hehehe it feels like home again with you guys and your avs . I
hadn't really noticed there was still somehting missing I couldn't
put my finger on it but I think thats what it was!
Ok on this Indian Queen deal , I dug up some legends from ancient
Indian mything. She is the first Indian queen encountered by
Columbus in the new world hunt. It made me think about what QueenA
was saying. There is in fact a very direct link to the Indians and
alien mything. Mayan temples, Egyptians, no matter how far back you
go you'll bump into Sumerian timeline affecting this. Basically,
they come to earth because they find that in these new bodies they
can use their brain powers more efficiently because they are in
essence compatible with their own brains. Think, people who can do
tricks on bicycles finding a motorcycle and these people walking the
motorcycle instead of riding it. The bicycle people already know how
to balance and do tricks on the balance and now they find this
incredible machine and these people not knowing how to use it (left
behind as a promise that their people will always have something of
theirs, sort of 'token' granolith if you may from the alien group
who first started this tribe ). Ironically, the half alien hybrid
Indians and the pure bred Indians and half hybrids in the East all
came from the same grandfather.
Anacaona was the first woman to stand out in the Taino race. She
came from a male dominant empire started by the Sumerians as a sort
of "pit stop" on their way back to Egypt. She was respected,
praised and loved by everyone in the town. She was as Frey of the
Houses described her: "Graceful woman, prudent, creative and
authoritative." So prudent, and polite that she still chose to lead
the people, but her strength to convince her adversaries were in
vain, the power of the conquistadors to fulfill their obsessiveness
with the resistant Indian , victim to the pain and strange massacre
and the ambition of the so called Christian, fascinated by gold.
Basically when the Spaniards (Columbus & Pals) came to American they
massacred her once blissfully happy, perfect empire. They would not
talk or listen just wanted to kill them for their gold and rape the
women. As we all know this sadly was in fact what happened all the
way to the North and South Americas with just a handful of pure
Indians left.
When the Indian Chief Caonabo, was made prisoner, sent to Spain and
died in a sea voyage, the widowed Queen inherited the tribe of the
Maguana. She displayed confidence to maintain unity in the kingdom,
fought to maintain peace and depose belligerence relating to the
Christians (and hello illuminated friends welcomed). It's doubtful
that the obedient tribes, under the authority of the Queen, would
make an effort to please her, but the Spaniards didn't want to
comprehend the Taino message of living together in peace. They took
their abnegation, their nobility and tolerance as a weakness and
gratified their cruelty with unusual conniving, destroying their
traditions.
One tragic Sunday, after lunch, commentator Ovando ordered his
troops to move. Troopers in their 70 horses, and 300 soldiers were
waiting. Anacaona believed that they were getting ready to prepare a
demonstration of their skill in the sugarcane game. She went over to
the troopers and asked them to dedicate it to her tribe, the
troopers agreed. They asked her to take the tribe to the bend of the
river because they wanted to speak to them.---
The Taino people where stabbed with their swords and burnt! Some
Tainos took managed to take the Queen out of the mass execution. All
that could be seen and heard were blood and loud screams. Eighty
Taino Leaders were slaughtered. The survivors fled from the tragic
inferno. Her son, the Prince was rescued and taken by the Christian
Friars. She was later wrongfully accused of being a traitor and hung
by the Spaniards.
This is eerie to me because it seems that the aliens are trying to
take over the world like the East once did to what is now America.
They cannot live in peace because they do not know good or what
peace means. Perhaps the Indian queen (descendant from the original
Indian queens appointed by the mythology from Sumer eras) who was
waiting for her Sumerian Prince to return to her but never came.
Their people died as a result in the hands of the Spanish Empire.
Adding this long story to our mything I think FMax came back to save
LIZ, possibly his son , Future SON, perhaps hiding in Earth now so
his father saves him form Antarian massacre... , LIZ'S SON NOT
TESS'S --hello , and this is why he's soo convinced perhaps he just
HAS to find him, and why "doormat" Liz is allowing him to search all
he wants. Tess does not have a son with Max if she has one it's
Kyle's no future heir there although she may be playing him out as
one to Kivar and pals.......
So FMax didn't want to tell Liz the reason he was doing this is to
protect their future son & the world, their world, THIS world, from
ending.
[ 11-10-2001: Message edited by: healersbabe ]
--------------------
"Max?" He opened his eyes and saw the hunger in her eyes. "Again?"
She nodded and bit her lip...
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 1128



Posted 11-10-2001 05:41 PM (IP Logged)
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QueenAmidala01
Obsessed Fan


um u know how u guys have been saying that the aliens might be made
out of energy.....
if they r made of energy would their be any D.N.A for them to use to
make the hybrids
maybe their energy is made up of the basic elements that create
life, emino acids etc.
afterall their is a theory that we are all made of star dust
--------------------
"When humans want rides they take Jetta's.
When tess want a ride she takes her tractor
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 1942



Posted 11-10-2001 05:49 PM (IP Logged)
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QueenAmidala01
Obsessed Fan


quote:
Originally posted by Style:
[QB]
Kal was one of the SS that survived, Max and M&I's. Could Agent
Pirece, lied, and let him go, or was there more than two SS's. No
tic tac here????
QB]
In the whiteroom agent peirce explained to max that there were 4
aliens found two died and two were kept in the whiteroom
one escaped......presumably kal and left nesado in there.
if the other two did die couldnt the one tic tac that escaped take
the bodies and use the healing stones to heal them?
when nesado died in the whiteroom the r4 healed him why couldnt this
have happened to the bodies......or maybe it was too late to save
--------------------
"When humans want rides they take Jetta's.
When tess want a ride she takes her tractor
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 1942



Posted 11-10-2001 07:38 PM (IP Logged)
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Reggie
Addicted Fan

quote:
Originally posted by QueenAmidala01:
In the whiteroom agent peirce explained to max that there were 4
aliens found two died and two were kept in the whiteroom...
Right, but Pierce only knew of four aliens. It took a while for the
Army to get to the crash site; there could have been a busload of
live aliens leave before then. In fact, as someone pointed out on
CHADs or CC (I forget which), we saw three in So47 ambush the truck:
one out front, and two behind the truck. We've also seen Harding and
Tic-tac shapeshift, each in their own way, and Kal didn't shapeshift
at all. Again, three aliens, at least.
--------------------
Roswell is not Roswell Roswell is not Roswell Roswell is not Roswell
Roswell is not Roswell
Joined: Jul 00 | Posts: 1257



Posted 11-10-2001 07:56 PM (IP Logged)
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mezz
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally posted by QueenAmidala01:
um u know how u guys have been saying that the aliens might be
made out of energy.....
if they r made of energy would their be any D.N.A for them to use
to make the hybrids
Are they made out of energy or did the memory techniques only give
Max recollections that were 'more like the energies' of them. They
also stated that memories began blurry but became gradually clearer.
This doesn't suggest that the aliens had no form on their planet.
And if Tess was mind warping the memories then she also had no idea
what they originally looked like and so she could only give Max
energies and memories of what she new which was not very much. She
said in M2TM that she had never seen Ed's true form he wouldn't let
her see it.
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 137



Posted 11-10-2001 09:07 PM (IP Logged)
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Style
Dedicated Fan

I have to figure, that there was more than one spaceship. Skins, et
al.,
And maybe a back-up spaceship, re: protectors for the three royals.
Therefore, multiple protectors, i.e, dupes.
Apparently, there is a similarity between the Earthings and
Antarian. The Antarians, hoped for the hope. Is it because, the
Antarians lost their reasoning to such? That thru the humans it can
be brought back? What the heck happened to the common people of
Antar. Their royals can care less.
Furthermore, Isabel and Michael could care less about Max's son.
Actually, for the people who are aware, Liz is the one to help Max?
Style
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 348



Posted 11-11-2001 05:56 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



Style, over at Compare and Contrast: Analyzing the TV Show and Book
Series - Version 4.0 , Anla pointed out that since the ship crashed
(again -- and BTW, was this supposed to be foreshadowed when Isabel
told Mom that Max was "crashing" at Michael's?) they would now need
another way to save SPOT, and she speculated that they might use the
"Wormhole" as in the Roswell High book series. Since Melinda Metz
(author of the series) is supposed to be writing for the show now,
this seems possible. Hmmm...maybe the Dupes will find another
Granolith in the subways?
Good points too about the lack of compassion among Antarians. Too
bad they don't at least have a little more of Mr. Spock's logic. Oh
well, at least they have Liz Logic.
Okay RBIers and Continuity Freaks, this just in:
Here's the Crashdown.com screencap from DB:

And here's Reggies screencap from Busted:
[ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ]
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2556



Posted 11-11-2001 07:38 PM (IP Logged)
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Style
Dedicated Fan

The famous WORMWHOLE concept. Why not, seems like every sci-fi show
has one. If Roswell goes this route, I hope that make it unusual
with a twist.
Let's see.
Roswell (a) alien boy falls in love with a human girl; (b) destiny;
(c) shapeshifters; (d) dupes; (e) good vs. evil; (f) a child; (g)
spaceships; (h) orbs/granoith; (i) fbi; (j) fortune tellers; (k)
murder; (l) time travel; (m) wormholes; (n) ruler; (o) ruler get's
overturned by evil forces; (p) conspiracies; (q) protection of
royals, placed on another planet, far far away; (r) hybrids; (s) can
humans and hybrids be fruitful.....
Sci-Fi
Style, thanks Shapeshifter!
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 348



Posted 11-12-2001 12:17 PM (IP Logged)
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DreamerAtHeart
Dedicated Fan


Hi.
Just a note. Kal refers to the planet as "Antar."
Also, Max introduces himself at the party as a representative from
"Antar Films."
Later!
--------------------
DreamerAtHeart
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 240



Posted 11-12-2001 02:06 PM (IP Logged)
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Reggie
Addicted Fan

Shapeshifter-screencaps
So, Max got a new Lava Lamp for his desk, over the summer? Cool.
They're neet. (And we can see how that set comes apart.)
Pity it isn't a green one, though. It could be a pet from "home".
"I'm your only protector"
Could be true, if he means The Podsters' only Protector. Remember,
Kal is AWOL, and Tic-tac has vanished (as far as anyone knows).
Harding could have been their only Protector left.
[ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: Reggie ]
--------------------
Roswell is not Roswell Roswell is not Roswell Roswell is not Roswell
Roswell is not Roswell
Joined: Jul 00 | Posts: 1257



Posted 11-12-2001 07:39 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



quote:
Originally posted by DreamerAtHeart:
...Max introduces himself at the party as a representative from
"Antar Films."
DAH, that is funny! And I missed it even though I watched it 3
times!
And I think you've just answered one of my questions (I have a list!
): Why was Max dressed as Andy Ant on one Halloween and Freddie
Kruger on another? Actually, my real question was "who is Andy Ant?"
The only Andy Ant I know was in a Christian children's book that my
daughter still cherishes because her baby sitter (whose flower girl
she got to be) gave it to her. Is there another? Anyway, I think
there's a little bit of a play on words: "Andy ANT" (as in "ANTAR."
Also, if this is the same Andy Ant in my daughter's book, the change
to Freddie Kruger the next year might be an allusion to the change
in Max. But Liz & I still know he's Andy Ant at heart.
What is up with that Liz-like wig on the wig stand in front of her
mom in SO when Liz walks in and they have their heart to heart
talk?
Okay, one more:
In SO, the camera pans on "W. Roswell High School: "Pathway to
excellence and integrity." Then in S&L the agent tells Max: "Joey
was not a great actor, but you are on a completely different path."
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2560



Posted 11-12-2001 11:17 PM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Extreme Fan


Shapeshifter--the reason for the wig on the doll head I believe is
that Liz was using this to make it appear she was in bed at night
when actually she was out seeing Max???? But her mother found it.
Does that make sense?
Question for you, what type of character was Andy Ant? Do you know?
Interesting pickup on the path to excellence---I feel like Max Evans
is going backwards presently--I want my Season1 Max back big
time!!!!!
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2149



Posted 11-13-2001 07:34 AM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



GraceKel, I'll have to read more later to see about Andy Ant's
character, but here's a quick quote:
quote:
"Sure," I said, "just don't let my mom catch you. You know what
she does to ants." Andy's mouth was so full of cookies that he
couldn't say anything, so he just nodded his head.
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2560



Posted 11-13-2001 09:48 AM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Hi All!
SS - I don't think it was "Andy" but "Adam Ant" - I believe the
reference was that both Iz and Max had dressed up as "punkish"
rockers for Halloween as kids. Remember the mid-80's and that look??
Material Girl, etc.? I may be wrong, but that is what I remember of
the conversation.
Not much else to add right now. Waiting to see if Khivar does show
up tonight like th previews implied, and wondering when Liz is going
to get a flash again. That is a huge CHAD as far as I'm concerned!!
Zero
FAN!
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 971



Posted 11-13-2001 12:27 PM (IP Logged)
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Roswell 10/2/00
Dedicated Fan


HI Everyone,
Did any of you notice that there is a special linnk between Liz's
Grandma and Sean DeLuca and how they both tie into Liz's importance
to the alien Mythology.OK here is how.
Grandma Claudia tells Liz at the end of the episode Leaving Normal
to "When I look at you so excited about life,I see my self, and
that's a gift, a gift that I will always take with me, that I'll
always treasure.Promise me one thing,that you'll follow your heart
where ever it takes you. Trust it."
Sean ties into this theory when in the episode Heart Of Mine he says
to Liz"There's something about you Liz.I've just always thought
there was something about you,you know. Something special." He aslo
is the one to point out that Liz is "suffocating" and not following
her heart. It is thorugh Sean that Liz is able to free her heart
once again and trust it, making her grow stronger.
It is also through this transformation that Liz realises how much
she really loves and cares for Max!!!
This also goes along with the whole butterfly theory that we saw in
Season One, that Liz was changed after Max healed her.
[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Roswell 10/2/00 ]
Joined: Sep 2001 | Posts: 264



Posted 11-13-2001 03:16 PM (IP Logged)
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Essence
Part-Time Fan

Has anyone else read the ET Online chat with Sherri? A little
spoilerish but has some rather exciting tidbits for Liz Mythers!
You can catch it at Crashdown.
[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Essence ]
--------------------
Essence-The intrinsic properties that serve to characterize or
identify something.
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 88



Posted 11-13-2001 06:08 PM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Roswell 10/2/2000 - You draw a wonderful connection! I just hope it
plays out this season, and we do see how "special" Liz truely is!!
Other than constantly just saving everyones' life!
Essence - I read a portion of the interview, and it is a bit
spoilerish - though I don't mind people discussing it here since it
is now in print - and not too spoilerish. Tidbits like this are what
is keeping me watching the Show - and eternal optimism!
Zero
FAN!
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 971



Posted 11-13-2001 09:57 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



So, Jessie worked on a top secret project for the Department of
Justice Drug Enforcement Administration. Hmmmm...
In Isabel "Amanda"'s notes on her dream there are 2 mentions of
"lightning." Lightning was seen in Nasedo's flash to Liz. And
"lightning" was blamed for the deaths of Joey Ferrinin and the "They
Are Among Us" starlette.
The word on the poster behind Isabel is "Surrender."
She seems to have meanings for the alien symbols. She also writes:
"No sky mountains."
Zero, too bad it was "Adam Ant" and not "Andy Ant," because it would
have been appropriate. Andy Ant is sort of a spoiled Jimminy
Cricket, as in, "Let your conscience be your guide." But it makes
more sense since nobody has heard of Andy Ant. But still, the
character of Andy really fits.
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2560



Posted 11-13-2001 10:24 PM (IP Logged)
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haniczka
Dedicated Fan

Hi RBI's. I've been lurking as much as possible to keep up with the
threads in spite of my all- consuming "other" life...
Interesting timing: Is's wedding takes place just after Cal, the
protector (?) has been weakened significantly. I wonder if that's
the reason Khivar feels he can just walk into the wedding reception?
He seemed extra alert, always looking around. He was wearing the
same thing in the dreams and when he was for real, and apparently
can communicate without talking (like the way Max/Liz see into each
other???). He has a really cool looking diamond stud just to the
left of his necktie. I guess that signifies royalty. I wonder how
this all relates to the Tess stuff from last year. I mean, I know
it's fiction, etc. but if Khivar can just pop over here whenever
he's so inclined, why go through the "Deal" with Nacedo and spend
all those years waiting for pregnant Tess to bring them back? Maybe
Tess's failure brought him over??? -HH
Joined: Jan 2001 | Posts: 173



Posted 11-13-2001 11:25 PM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Loyal Fan

There were some 3+1 patterns in the backgrounds this time: in the
tail lights of the bus (a stack of three lights of one color and one
different) and in a condiment holder in the Evans dining room (a
stack of three filled holes and one empty one). Any other symbols?
Joined: Dec 99 | Posts: 996



Posted 11-14-2001 06:17 AM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



quote:
Originally posted by haniczka:
...if Khivar can just pop over here whenever he's so inclined, why
go through the "Deal" with Nacedo and spend all those years
waiting for pregnant Tess to bring them back? Maybe Tess's failure
brought him over??? -HH[/QB]
hani, your post makes me think that maybe Max's son, whom we know
was "sick" and "in trouble," and whom Max has "failed" to retrieve,
has died? So Max would still be the rightful heir to the throne
(rather than a child 'puppet' for Kvar), so Kvar wants a child from
the royal line through Isabel. Remember the Dupes saying they
couldn't travel from Antar to Earth unless it was very important
because of the difficulty? So far, the only such travel has been
pregnant Tess.
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2560



Posted 11-14-2001 07:47 AM (IP Logged)
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haniczka
Dedicated Fan

Hmmmm. Interesting. Or, if Tess did escape, Khivar may be feeling
pressured to procure a rightful heir of his own - something he
couldn't exactly do with Iz. until she was "of age." To wait all
this time, he must really love her. Didn't Whitacre say their love
was amazing? I'm wondering if establishing a telepathic connection
with Iz. somehow expedited his travels... Maybe he didn't need a
spaceship?
I've been thinking about Melodious's old posts. Wasn't it she who
first suggested that on Antar, Zan may have been the tyrant, and
Khivar was actually a better king? The words of Cal last week
substantiate this - he has always hated Zan/Max. Besides the
"mom-o-gram," no one has had anything particularly nice to say about
Zan, have they? Not Courtney, Nacedo, The Dupes, or even Larek... No
one has spoken of a beloved king who's absence the people mourn,
have they?? But Tess was very deceitful. Is her way Khivar's way?
The "mom-o-gram" told the Royal Four that they'd know the enemy by
"the evil within". Isabel says the dreams feel "dangerous", but not
necessarily evil. I wonder how Vilandra died. I have to admit that I
rather like this Khivar. Well, I hope they don't make him too evil
too soon. -HH
--------------------
To see the world in a grain of sand...William Blake
Joined: Jan 2001 | Posts: 173



Posted 11-14-2001 08:51 AM (IP Logged)
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StephStephSteph
Obsessed Fan


Hi RBI!
Haven't had a chance to read through everyone's thoughts, but just
thought I'd post mine over here (I have the same post on the Boogie
Diva Thread).
I really liked last night eppy. Of course, has anyone noticed how
much Maria looks like Courtney these days?
I thought The Wedding had a nice mix of comedy (Iz freaking out
about the wedding was too cute), sentiment (I loved Ma and Pa Evans
finally coming to the Wedding! And Max was the one who made it
happen - how sweet ), the mystery (loved the Max-Interogation
scenes.. I definitely think Jesse has something to hide, but maybe
that's just me hoping ), and the suspense (WHO is this guy? Khivar?
How did he get to the Wedding? How come no one noticed? Mikey G WAS
videotaping though - they must have him on TAPE!!).
I also absolutely loved Kyle at the bachelor party with Mikey G.
"I'm a statistician" How hysterical!
Anyway.. I'm dying for next week's eppy. That teaser was.. well,
just that.. a tease! Did you see Iz's eyes when she said,
"Vilondra". Creepy.
--------------------
Steph
RBI~Dreamer~Behrian
*Bull Ridin' Behrian Boogie Diva*
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 1862



Posted 11-14-2001 10:44 AM (IP Logged)
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Musicchild
New Fan

Whose's to say that Khivar even loves Isabel? How do we know that
Khivar used the "I love you" line on Isabel so long agao, which
caused her death?
--------------------
Life is precious, so treasure each day, and be thankful for what God
has given you.
Joined: Oct 2001 | Posts: 30



Posted 11-14-2001 10:57 AM (IP Logged)
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StephStephSteph
Obsessed Fan


quote:
Originally posted by Musicchild:
Whose's to say that Khivar even loves Isabel? How do we know that
Khivar used the "I love you" line on Isabel so long agao, which
caused her death?
I'm with you! We don't know anything about ths Khivar/Vilondra
relationship, except that he appears to have QUITE the hold on her..
and he's the reason she betrayed her family. Just what kind of mind
games does he pull? It doesn't appear as if it's the tradional
"love-at-first-site" thing we humans are used to, but rather more a
"deeper connection" that's almost like a cult-type following (Yeah,
I'm getting this from the brief moments of next week's eppy we saw
last night).
I have to say though.. whoever it is that plays this Khivar guy?
Hmm.. he's cute.
--------------------
Steph
RBI~Dreamer~Behrian
*Bull Ridin' Behrian Boogie Diva*
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 1862



Posted 11-14-2001 02:53 PM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Hi all!
Just swinging by for a quick look! I thought The Wedding (To Have
and To Hold) was okay, but nothing "sweeps" worthy. I guess I'm
going to have to find time to rewatch it, and then comment. But the
previews do intrique me a lot, and I loved Liz standing up - in a
nice, but forceful way - to her Dad. To me - the best part of the
entire episode were Liz and Maria, and Kyle, too! I just haven't
bought into the Iz/Jesse connection, yet. And the entire
conversation between Mikey G and Iz about not knowing anything about
their previous lives bugged me because I kept thinking - WELL, IF
YOU WOULD ONLY ASK SOME QUESTIONS WHEN YOU HAVE HAD THE
OPPORTUNITIES, YOU MIGHT GET A CLUE!
I also wondered about the videotaping of the reception - and wonder
if the Khivar or human-possessed-by Khivar is on it. Also, I would
love to see a screen cap of the notes Iz was making after her dream.
I'm still waiting for something to "grab" me this season, and the
Kal character came closest to doing that - though I'm concerned we
may never see him again. Maybe the Vilondra storyline will grab my
attention?? I'm hoping!!
Well, back to the grind!
Zero
FAN!
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 971



Posted 11-14-2001 03:07 PM (IP Logged)
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StephStephSteph
Obsessed Fan


quote:
Originally posted by Zero:
And the entire conversation between Mikey G and Iz about not
knowing anything about their previous lives bugged me because I
kept thinking - WELL, IF YOU WOULD ONLY ASK SOME QUESTIONS WHEN
YOU HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITIES, YOU MIGHT GET A CLUE!
I actually kept thinking about the fact that Iz and Mikey G were
"destined" and yet no one seems to be bothered by the fact that Iz
is marrying Jesse and not Mikey G. YET, the idea of Max being with
Liz? Well, that couldn't happen because he was "supposed to fulfill
his destiny with T "!? Bugs me.
I was a tad more intrigued this week than the first few weeks, but
we'll have to see how next week's episode pans out.
--------------------
Steph
RBI~Dreamer~Behrian
*Bull Ridin' Behrian Boogie Diva*
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 1862



Posted 11-14-2001 04:56 PM (IP Logged)
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Essence
Part-Time Fan

quote:
Originally posted by Zero:
WELL, IF YOU WOULD ONLY ASK SOME QUESTIONS WHEN YOU HAVE HAD THE
OPPORTUNITIES, YOU MIGHT GET A CLUE!
Too funny, I thought the same thing!
I know I'm in a minority, but I like KH (although I'm not invested
in the Jesse storyline because they didn't bother to build it up AND
I don't like how much time she is getting and how little time
everyone else is getting). I was wondering if maybe they didn't
really want us to become too interested in Jesse because they want
us to be more intrigued by Kivar, but then I remembered that Jesse
is in the opening credits, sooooo. Anyway, I am interested in how
the Kivar storyline will pan out as well. Do you think they will
bother to build up the whole meeting of Max and Kivar or will it
just be Max to Iz's rescue as the previews seem to suggest? That
would be really lame, IMO. Come on, Kivar is the root of all of
Max's misery, at least according to Tess. Will Max broach the
subject of his son? Would that be a mistake, in the event Tess
didn't make it back to Antar and Kivar doesn't know about Max's son?
Just random wonderings.
And from the previews it looks as though there is little or no
interaction between Max and Liz yet again. Getting a little
frustrated here. Grrrrr.
StephStephSteph, right there with you on the Michael/Isabel destiny
thing. Why just Max and Liz?
So, do you all think Iz really is in love with Jesse or is he just
something human she is grabbing onto to make herself more human and
normal? If Kivar could have the much of a reaction on her with such
little effort, how strong could her feelings for Jesse really be?
It took Max a season and a half to stray from Liz (which he
shouldn't have at all, but we all know that ).
--------------------
Essence-The intrinsic properties that serve to characterize or
identify something.
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 88



Posted 11-14-2001 07:57 PM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Me again!
Essence - I like KH - from what I know of her, it is how the Iz
character has developed in the last two seasons that bugs me, and
the focus on her character. Oh well. I actually warmed up to Jesse a
bit last night. At least we got a bit more depth to his character
through the "interogation" by Max, et al. And you know, I could see
Jesse and Liz working together as two humans working to defeat evil
aliens that threaten the ones they love, but time will tell what
will be done with the Jesse character. Right now it looks like he
will going to be cockeled (Sp?) and made the foul of - IF Iz is
drawn to Khivar has the previews show. Guess Liz and Jesse will have
that in common, too! I remember Toy House and how much I
sympathized with Iz's character, and loved the bond with her mom -
wishing they would play on that more. And occasionally they do -
last night touching a bit on it, but ...
Though I have complained, there was much I liked about the episode.
I too wonder how they will deal with Khivar, and will be sad if he
is nothing but the villian of the week, and nothing of the
previously stated rivalry is touched on. I've gotten into Farscape
over the summer, and Scorpius is one Bad, Bad Guy - and this is what
I would like to see with Khivar. But I don't think the writers could
develope someone that complex, bad and enjoyable to watch all at the
time. Plus, the whole Tess issue needs to arise somehow - either she
didn't make it back and Khivar acknowledges this or she did and he
gloats about it. Time will tell!!
Zero
FAN!
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 971



Posted 11-14-2001 10:02 PM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Extreme Fan


Hello Fellow Liz Mythers--how ya doing?
I just wanted to say that this eppy was over-exposure on Isabel
character--MUCH!!!! I agree with Zero, I liked Isabel in season
1--actually I liked all the characters in season1 LOL!!!! I know
people thought Liz and Max were over exposed in the first
season--but quite frankly we had more of an ensemble cast THEN--than
we have had in the past 2 seasons I am sorry to say LOL!!! Story
ARCS and CHARACTER ARCS----out the window Katims---tell us a good
story-----let it FLOW!!!!!! By the end I was waiting for everything
to stop and for someone to say Isabel---lets see you do a full turn
in your dress, now to the left, now to the right--LOL---you are all
we need to show LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
Now for things I am noticing----yes crazy I am sure but I just tell
you like I see it--don't know what it means.
Since this season began and even during end of last season---nobody
has been behaving like themselves in many ways-----and we keep
hearing that echoed through the episodes as well---WHO ARE YOU? That
is so not like ???????? Liz, Isabel etc etc Max, Michael--so my
point is this...he he--yes I am getting to it.
Did Max embrace his destiny or someone elses????
Max believes he was Zan--but since the TEX---he has become a poorly
bathed and badly groomed boyfriend?????He is always on this
quest---always seeking, asking questions, suspicious, he punched
Jessie(LOL), he didn't answer his cell phone(inconsiderate and takes
his girlfriend for granted LOL)
Liz---is this really LIZ???????Liz with HEAVY MAKEUP, wearing her
hair like none other than TESS last season---did anyone else think
Liz's hairdo at the wedding was very much like Tess's hair at the
prom????
She wears the earrings, she lights the candles all around---her
father says its as if she is a different person, she is rebellious
and snappy with her parents, robbing convenient stores, sensible Liz
doing these things---now would Tess do these things--yes she acted
like a doormat---what do we do now Max????LOL!!!
so who has been acting like Liz? Maria has---I was wondering why
Maria is oh so serious this season, she is wearing her hair very
Liz-like---the slicked back ponytails, the straight hair, very
beautiful and sweet and understanding. She tells Liz in this
episode--we have some problems we must take CONTROL of them----who
is the control freak---LIZ!!!!! Not Maria!!!
Liz says "or we could just let it fall apart?" hmmmm---doesn't sound
like Liz to me.
Michael--still a little unsure of Michael but he has been acting
somewhat like Max too LOL---very calm, cool and collected, caring
more about people, not acting impulsively anymore, supporting
Isabel---growing his hair LONG like--FUTURE MAX????
Back to Maria for a minute--in this last eppy--Maria comes to the
window---like Liz did in Riverdog---Isabel is falling apart--Maria
very calmly, and very sweetly---supports Isabel---and Maria was
acting very Liz-like LOL!!!!
Liz says to Maria---something is very wrong here, this is not like
Isabel?????? Isabel actually apologized to Liz for being
b*tchy--when has that ever happened LOL?????
Max is interrogating Jessie---whereas in season1 Michael was always
running around asking questions like in the convention ep?
The sherrif started a band?????Is he suppose to be Alex?????LOL!!!
Or is Kyle becoming more like Alex? Hanging out with Izzy---not sure
with this one.
Zero I totally agree---try asking a QUESTION or two is this
unbeleivable or what.
Max asks Jessie about him moving in between 2nd and 3rd
semester=====2's and 3's ----32--or 23.
All for now
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2149



Posted 11-14-2001 10:27 PM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Extreme Fan


sorry meant to type unbelievable---I can spell I just can't type.
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2149



Posted 11-14-2001 10:49 PM (IP Logged)
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healersbabe
Addicted Fan

Hi mythers !
Gracekel I'm soo with you that everyone seems to have shapeshifted
personalities...Liz is most definately NOT acting like herself AT
ALL. And Maria is acting a lot like her now that you mention it but
then again its been so long since they added spice to her character
that I totally missed all those Liz-like traits you mentioned. Max
being the most obvious change in that he's actually thinking on his
own sometimes be it as mean as he is its still a shock to see him
figure out Cal couldn't kill him and that he had to obey him. Since
when does Max have a brain ?!?
SO what do you think is bringing about this shift? You think its all
the old timelines fighting their way back to normal?
--------------------
Meet the new Max...Energizer Max.
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 1137



Posted 11-14-2001 11:25 PM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Extreme Fan


Healersbabe--I wish I could tell you I would know what the cause is
exactly--but I don't really know the answer to that one.
Okay a couple of other things I noticed
The manager of the band says just Karter with a K---KIVAR? He also
has a pattern down his shirt or tie I forget which right now that
reminded me of Nicholas
Also this lightening bolt symbol---I distinctly remember seeing this
symbol behind Nicholas in WipeOut episode--when he was near the
garbage cans taunting Courtney.
Also--about Jessie---explaining HIKING and something about the
woods----hey sort of reminded me of TICTAC????? Also he grew up in
Roswell but left to go to Cornell in NEW YORK--NY did he say--where
the dupes lived? His father died when he was 13---there is your 1
and 3 Nemo.
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2149



Posted 11-15-2001 09:24 AM (IP Logged)
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aldebaran
Addicted Fan

GraceKel, your post with regard to shapeshifting personalities was
very thought provoking, and it certainly does put a different spin
on this season thus far. Here's hoping it was intentional as part of
an actual storyline with regard to timelines - or something,
anything other than the characters just "growing" and becoming
unbearably annoying!
--------------------
"Talking about love is like dancing about architecture"
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 1339



Posted 11-15-2001 09:40 AM (IP Logged)
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haniczka
Dedicated Fan

I'm wondering if we know for certain that Khivar had to travel from
Antar. Maybe he died too, and his essence has also been implanted in
a human. He's certainly very young looking. Or is he in a Skin
Husk?? Makes me wonder what the heck IS going on up in Antar these
days. Maybe Tess is ruling!
Speaking of Tess, it's interesting to compare the two storylines
which are, in fact very similar. Perhaps Khivar took some notes on
Tess's difficulites with Max and observed that showing up and saying
"Here I am" isn't particularly effective. How interesting it is that
Khivar can DREAMWALK Isabel, kind of like Laurie Dupree (sp) did
subconsciously before. He speaks to her subconscience first, getting
reacquainted before approaching her in the flesh.
Did you guys notice that in the dream sequences, each time it
appears that Izabel is keeping him further away? Remember the first
dream? He walks up and begins kissing her. In the second, they
approach each other from opposite sides before he comes and touches
her face. In the third dream, he says "You won't marry him; you
won't let yourself..." as she stands with her back to him. In the
last dream, he appears visibly rankled. She says "I marry him
tomorrow" and he says "It means nothing". She disagrees and while
walking away from him, she says: "It means that I'm finished with
you; good-bye Khivar." SO, wouldn't you know it, there he is
cheek-to-cheek at the wedding reception!
I'm not so sure Michael got him on videotape. You may remember that
Michael was dancing with Iz. and handed her over to Khivar. Did he
get to the video camera before their conversation was done? Well,
you say, then Kyle was videotaping - right? But Kyle is asking Iz.
for a dance the moment Khivar leaves. He had put down the camera...
OOps. See that, I don't talk for three weeks and now you can't get
me to shut up. Sorry! -HH
--------------------
To see the world in a grain of sand...William Blake
Joined: Jan 2001 | Posts: 173



Posted 11-15-2001 10:05 AM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Extreme Fan


Aldebaran--I am not sure it means anything either, but the complete
turnaround in characters cannot be ignored--and yes I would agree,
this isn't growth type changes, these are personality transplants so
suddenly this hit me and I thought I would post it.
Earlier I posted something about Jessie talking about hiking and in
the woods reminding me of TicTac---and I know you are probably all
thinking but his blood was human???? But I noticed as they were
taking his blood---the other guy had in the room had his hand on
Jessie's back--hmmmm, don't know it just seemed funny to me.
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2150



Posted 11-15-2001 10:57 AM (IP Logged)
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avaSpeaks
Extreme Fan



GraceKel, I don't think that everybody is acting like everybody else
I really just think that some people have grown...
The problem I'm having is what to do with Max...I mean do we want
him sweet and strong, with Liz on the side, or do we want Liz as the
strong one, but then where does that leave Max...
Are there any examples of where both Liz and Max were sweet and
strong with each other at the same time, other than the van scene in
Destiny???
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2128



Posted 11-15-2001 02:58 PM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Ava - I think in Leaving Normal, Liz and Max were strong and sweet,
etc., all at the same time. Personally, I want them both strong, but
with vulnerabilities that complement each other. But, I'm Dreaming
of Season 1, and I don't think it is possible after Season 2 and
what we have seen of Season 3. Now, IF after the Stepford Max
Chronicles we had been given a storyline that showed Max had been
sucked into a "mind control/warp" situation out of his control, that
was only broken by Liz and company's involvement, and that was a
vulnerability identified for the future. And then Season 3 opened
with a investigation into how the mind control/warp worked and the
extent of it (like was the Tex real? was/is the spawn real?), I
could have really gotten into that AND we could still have had a
search that lead to the family estrangement and the discovery of
Kal, but NOPE - we've gotten a lame search for Spawn and an
engagement/wedding in record speed between two people I just don't
care about. (I don't care if Jesse gets cockled, fried, sex, etc. I
just have no emotional connection to him, and if Khivar screws Jesse
over right now - oh well.... And this is supposedly a main character
- that is sad that I feel that way.)
Grace Kel - great catches by the way - and though I don't think they
are all out of character, you make an excellent case for it!
Zero
FAN
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 972



Posted 11-15-2001 08:21 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



GraceKel et al, Max & Michael switched personnas way back on the
snowy bridge last season--or was it in VLV? Don't you remember, we
had a whole discussion about the choreography of it? ***shapeshifter
goes off to do a search for "switched" in Archive site, which, BTW,
now has most all threads linked, but comes up with 'switched orbs'
and 'Tess & Ava switched' etc. etc.*** Well, I know for sure Michael
morphed after his Summer of '47 experience. And then Max was
tortured in the WR, mindraped by Nicko, and mindwarped by Tess--now
it's up to our girl Liz to put him back together again. But it seems
that she must first get down on his level and connect. But I think
the strength she exhibited in THATH indicates that she's up to the
task.
Ack!! I just made a mind connection for the meaning of the Is/Jes
conversation re the movie:
quote:
Isabel: I can't believe she married him.
Jesse: She loved him.
Isabel: She did. She really, really loved him.
Jesse: Even though he was damaged.
Isabel: And wounded. He was so wounded.
Jesse: She didn't care.
Jesse: She was brave enough to see past that, you know, to see how
good he really was
This is about Max & Liz!
Unless it's about Jessie's nose!
BTW, I found this cut scene attributed to Willowfan over on Rtdg's
site:
quote:
...
Liz (cont'd): Max, what? What happened?
Max: My son never made it home.
Liz: How do you know?
Max: I was able to contact him for a second. He's so scared, Liz.
He was calling out for help.
Her anger melts away. Max struggles to keep it together.
Liz: Where is he?
Max (fighting emotion): I don't know. The signal was too weak.
He's out there, somewhere...
[ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ]
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2573



Posted 11-15-2001 09:56 PM (IP Logged)
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mezz
Dedicated Fan

JK talks about the shift in behaviour of the charcters in an
interview that is in the Cult Times mag.
It's quite a long article and interesting. Here is a section of it.
Some of it is well known and quoted elsewhere. I have taken out some
spoilers cause I don't think they're allowed even if they are in
print. (Hope this is OK. If not please feel free to edit.)
"....Tess had betrayed everybody and the aliens lost their one and
perhaps only shot at ever returning to their homeworld. 'I'm
interested in seeing how those developments affect all the
characters in the show, particularly the three remaining alien
characters,' Katims notes. 'I believe that Max, Michael and Isabel
are all affected in different ways and they'll take very different
journeys because of that. I see Max going through a little bit of a
role reversal with Michael. Max is haunted by having his son taken
away from him, so he's the one on a quest now, the way we'd seen
Michael in the past. Max will stop at nothing to make contact with
his son and to right the wrong that's been done, and Liz goes along
with him. Michael on the other hand, is someone who has basically
spent his whole life not investing himself at all in life on Earth
because he always thought he'd be leaving. Now suddenly, he's
staying. That should be interesting. He's supposed to be a senior in
high school and he's basically never completed a class. ...(spoiler)
We'll also see him get a job.... (spoilers).
"Isabel is another who has never really allowed herself to get close
to anybody here and now she's suddenly here forever,
too...(spoilers) That relationship will accelerate very fast and
then...(spoilers)"
He also says, "And as far as Tess, because a lot of people ask me
about her, she is gone but not forgotten." But no details are given.
He says that the character journey of the characters is pretty much
mapped out but the way that will develop in practice is not cut in
stone. (Am I allowed to say that here. Hope so. If not feel free to
edit.)
It seems to me that we are only seeing the beginning of events. It
seems to me that things are still only being set up. It seems to me
(and I come to this conclusion all by myself not because of anything
that I have read) that Isabel must have more screen time because as
far as we have heard, she is the one who brought Max down, she is
the one who is the weakest link. Some stuff has been said about Max
and his rule, though none of it clear but it has been stated several
times that Vilondra was the linch pin. If Max is to survive then
Isabel must take a different path than before. Perhaps Liz will play
a part in that. Perhaps now that Isabel is part human she will not
be under Kivar's influence so much. Who knows? I think though that
it will be a battle of mind and will power and character
developement not so much of action. I speculate that it is very
important for Isabel to face the dilemma while very young and as a
confusion of love loyalty because that seems to be one of JK's
biggest themes.
Nicholas stated something about Vilondra giving him the eye back on
Antar and then going for Kivar and didn't she have another love as
well? Can't remember. It strikes me that she was a bit of a *free
spirit*. That needs to play out somehow. Especially as it is so
opposite to the character she has grown up to be as Isabel.
Sorry this is so long. Once I got started I couldn't stop.
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 151



Posted 11-16-2001 07:25 AM (IP Logged)
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StephStephSteph
Obsessed Fan


Do you think they'll ever brush upon the "Liz Mind Walking With Max"
thing we saw in MITC?
--------------------
Steph
RBI~Dreamer~Behrian
*Bull Ridin' Behrian Boogie Diva*
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 1865



Posted 11-16-2001 11:23 AM (IP Logged)
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avaSpeaks
Extreme Fan



Hey all!!
Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm hearing from other threads
that UPN will show The Pilot and The End of The World!!!
Any thoughts to why this is going to be shown, I think because they
will show how Liz has "changed"!!!
Maybe they will finally get into Liz having powers and how important
she really is What are your thoughts about this guys
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2128



Posted 11-16-2001 03:04 PM (IP Logged)
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Reggie
Addicted Fan

quote:
Originally posted by avaSpeaks:
Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm hearing from other
threads that UPN will show The Pilot and The End of The World!!!
What are your thoughts about this guys?
WONDERFUL !!!
It may mean that they've decided on a Major re-work of The Mess
Formerly Known As Roswell, and they need some filler episodes while
they get ready to re-start with the new version. At least, that's
what I'd do.
Here's hoping!
[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: Reggie ]
--------------------
Roswell is not Roswell Roswell is not Roswell Roswell is not Roswell
Roswell is not Roswell
Joined: Jul 00 | Posts: 1265



Posted 11-16-2001 04:07 PM (IP Logged)
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Alexis
Addicted Fan

Yeah, aldy-I am so glad I am not the only one who noticed that! Last
night after I came back from vacation, my roomies and I watched
Control and then THATH and I pointed it out and they didn't see what
I meant! Yeah, I'm not going insane!
Ha ha, healersbabe Maybe it was driving all night to see Liz who he
didn't even think about when about to leave on the ship that made
his arm limp like that?
Vilkamass-I like your one protector per hybrid idea too! It would
make sense that there would be more than one. Of course, if their
protective instincts are put in their DNA would it be for one person
or the whole royal family? Could be either way. In any case, Tic Tac
lives, if only in my own mind! chants along with Steph tic tac tic
tac tic tac…..
GraceKel-you are so right about the mixed signals! Zan was beloved
but hated by his own men? What? And what about Max's good qualities
(the ones the writer's left)? Or are they ONLY human? Geez, these
writers need to get it straight.
Essence-I am really fascinated by your comment about the way Liz
acts towards Max's mother! I thought the behavior was very unLizlike
and it would explain things if her reactions to those around her
depends on her connection with Max! Of course, I would like to think
that she is independent, but they do have an unusual connection. As
for Max lying to her, I wouldn't say he lied to her. He didn't say
"I stayed for you. I couldn't leave you." He does stay "I'll never
leave you." I personally thought it was the writer's trying to force
a romantic tone to the scene when it was completely inappropriate
since he ignored her cell phone call. How about calling her on his
drive back?
Zero-I agree with you on the M/L Romeo & Juliet comparison. Can the
writer's please get an original idea. M/L are NOT R&J. Jeez! Also, I
agree-I definitely didn't believe Max was sincere (well, if I wanted
to look at it through rose colored glasses I would say that during
the drive from CA to NM he thought about all that he would lose and
that he would never leave Liz after the realization) but he should
have said it at all. I am a dreamer, but I think the writers are
trying to woo the dreamers too much!
In terms of using Brody to find out about his son-they tried that
and it almost killed Brody because the Podsters don't know how to
"prepare" his body before transmitting through him. Max needs to
think that he should find out how to do that and then communicate
with his home planet. Or maybe he could try and use the orb again.
Steph-the actor that's playing Kivar-reminds me of Mark Paul Gossler
(sp?) from Saved by the Bell. I know it's not him, but he reminds me
of him!!!!
--------------------
Sweet Dreams make for blissfull sleep
Joined: Oct 2000 | Posts: 1395



Posted 11-16-2001 04:31 PM (IP Logged)
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nermal
Addicted Fan

I hope The Pilot and EOTW will let viewers rediscover Max and Liz
the way they should be.
[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: nermal ]
Joined: Jan 00 | Posts: 1283



Posted 11-16-2001 05:04 PM (IP Logged)
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Roswell 10/2/00
Dedicated Fan


Hi everyone
[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: Roswell 10/2/00 ]
Joined: Sep 2001 | Posts: 275



Posted 11-16-2001 05:10 PM (IP Logged)
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Roswell 10/2/00
Dedicated Fan


[QUOTE]Originally posted by avaSpeaks:
[qb]Hey all!! [/b]
Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm hearing from other threads
that UPN will show The Pilot and The End of The World!!!
Oh my god are you serious!!! Thoses are two of my favorite
episodes!!!! Do you know when and what time they will be airing? I
live in NY but I go to college in RI do you know if both of these
episodes will be airing in both of these states? Please let me
know!! I am so excited!!!!! Both of thoses episoeds are Amazing and
so full of and Magic!!!!! ROSWELL ROCKS!!!!
Erin Roswell 10/2/00
[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: Roswell 10/2/00 ]
Joined: Sep 2001 | Posts: 275



Posted 11-16-2001 05:54 PM (IP Logged)
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mezz
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally posted by StephStephSteph:
Do you think they'll ever brush upon the "Liz Mind Walking With
Max" thing we saw in MITC?
Shiri had some interesting things to say about this in one of her on
line interviews that was on crashdown news thread recently. Go check
it out.
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 151



Posted 11-16-2001 07:08 PM (IP Logged)
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aldebaran
Addicted Fan

If they do show The Pilot and EOTW again, wouldn't they also have to
show the ep in which Kyle is shot and healed (and then maybe even
ARCC where Max heals the kids)? Seems a tricky situation because it
almost seems like it would have to be all or nothing to make the
story reasonably CHAD-free....then again, TPTB have never been
afraid of a few (hundred) CHADS every now and again, have they?
Welcome back, Alexis! Or should I say, "Bon jour!"
--------------------
"Talking about love is like dancing about architecture"
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 1352



Posted 11-16-2001 07:25 PM (IP Logged)
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DreamerAtHeart
Dedicated Fan


Hi, All!
I've been so busy I haven't been able to keep up. By the time I get
here, I don't feel like I have any original ideas anymore. Most of
my thoughts on THATH have been discussed.
- Kivar: Alien? How the heck did he get here so fast? Skin?
Human-possessed-by-alien?
- Kivar on videotape?
- What's with Liz's eye makeup?
- Nice to see Liz stand up to her dad.
- Vilondra's eyes in the promo for next week are so creepy!
Also,
- I liked hearing Max say to his parents that they're having a tough
time, but he hopes they'll work through it.
- I hope that the champagne Max sipped after his toast was
non-alcoholic...does he not remember what happened in Blind Date?
UPN showing TEOTW and The Pilot intrigues me. I really hope they use
these eps to build on rather than just as hyped-up reruns to attract
new fans (or old fans).
That's it for now. I'll probably have more to add once I re-watch
it.
Later!
--------------------
DreamerAtHeart
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 241



Posted 11-16-2001 07:26 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



My first thought about the possibility of Pilot and TEOTW being
shown is that these 2 eps probably attracted the most viewers in the
past. But I would also like to think they are planning on doing some
continuity with Seasons 1 & 2, and are airing these 2 key eps to
bring the 'new' audience up to speed.
It's nice that both of these are Liz-Important eps.
Notice: FF is in serious $$ trouble and will have a "black out" on
11/20 -11/21 to try to catch up. I guess they pay for bandwidth use?
Anyway, see more here.
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2573



Posted 11-16-2001 08:49 PM (IP Logged)
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Style
Dedicated Fan

These two eppys, again in my opinion, brought the essence of
emotion.
I dunno, when Liz and Max are together, what ever scene, emotions,
good, bad, happy, sad, semi happy & sad, i.e., viewers take notice.
Such viewers love, hate, hate, love, very few are in between. For
Roswell, and you may disagree, Liz and Max, their characters fuel
attention. No doubt about it.
Hopefully, as Liz Myths, we will see, Liz' changes, in the most
positive.
Style
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 361



Posted 11-17-2001 08:15 AM (IP Logged)
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haniczka
Dedicated Fan

Originally posted by Style: These two eppys, again in my opinion,
brought the essence of emotion... Hopefully as Liz Myths, we will
see Liz's changes, in the most positive.
Amen to that, Style. I've held a grudge against the WB for a year
that they only aired EOTW once and I've never been able to see it.
Mezz, I loved your observations. Your post was not too lengthy.
DreameratHeart, I too wondered about Max sipping the wine at the
reception. I guess it was non-alcoholic. If Khivar is not caught on
video tape, it will because camera-man Michael was dancing with Iz
when he first sauntered over to speak to her, and camera-man-Kyle
was waiting to dance with Iz. the same instant that Khivar made his
exit. So I don't think either "caught" him on videotape.
GraceKel, the biggest problem I'm having is that I think Max Evans
is transforming into Jason Behr. The Max from S1 was so shy, gentle
and reserved. He would rather die than take off for LA by himself,
treat Cal, who could be perceived almost like family, as though he
were some sort of menial servant, treat Liz as though she were
cramping his style, and then come home with a snazzy new hair-do.
I'm sorry if this stiffles Mr. Behr's acting creativity, but it
would have been much more consistant if Max had withdrawn INTO
himself, become MORE anti-social and reserved, sullen. Atleast the
Max at the beginning of S2 was consistant with his character. This
S3 Max doesn't seem like the same person.
SS, I absolutely LOVE your connection with the conversation Iz. and
Jesse have departing the movie theater. IF in fact, Max IS
mind-warped, brain possessed, mentally ill, or handicapped, yet, Liz
"...loves him anyway..." because she believes the real Max is in
there somewhere, well, then there's still hope. -HH
Joined: Jan 2001 | Posts: 175



Posted 11-17-2001 09:05 AM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Extreme Fan


Well as I have said before its okay to have a difference of opinion
and the story is told in such a convoluted way that YES I could be
way off, but I INVITE you to watch that scene again with Maria(LIZ)
coming to Isabel's window----this reminds me so much of the LIZ from
season1--her personality, the way she carried herself--its just
uncanny---and she even uses the words I PROMISE(something LIZ says
to MAX about coming right back----its just too much of a coincidence
to me---it jumped out at me--LOL!!!)
Haniczka--I agree with you that Max SHOULD be true to his character
but I STILL lean towards the idea that Max has taken on a PERSONA
that is not really HIS because he believes thats who he is---but he
is not.
How can everyone say this is just GROWTH--look at Jim
Valenti??????What is up with him????? He has totally lost it!!! The
former SHERIFF simply ducks when a bar brawl ensues---hmmmm.
And all the constant references to people doing things not like
them, and who are you?
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2150



Posted 11-17-2001 10:01 AM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



GraceKel, When I heard Maria say those words, "I Promise," I too got
a deja vu flash (not to be confused with a Max-induced flash, sadly
). But I was Sooo sure it was Maria who had said that before, but
to Liz (her best bud). And this would have (boy am I enjoying the
"Bold" button ) fit with Isabel approaching Liz & Maria to be
bridesmaids because they are 'the closest thing' she 'has to
girlfriends.' However, I just did a search in the episodes for the
phrase "I promise" and came up with Liz saying it! And, why did I
ever doubt GraceKel The Observant?
About the Max/Michael personality switch: I actually read a snippet
of a JK interview this week (turned my virgin, unspoiled eyes away
when it looked like it was getting into spoiler territory ) in
which he actually stated that Max was going to be morphing into a
Michaelesque personality this season (my words, not his ).
Now about the Bizarro Valenti scene: I can only surmise that they
didn't want to cut his cool blues singing (although how, may I ask,
is this classified as "Country Music"????), and they also wanted the
gratuitous fight scene for the Wrestling Channel viewers who might
happen to tune in, so they had to meld them into a Bizarro Valenti
Scene.
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2573



Posted 11-17-2001 01:44 PM (IP Logged)
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elenac
Dedicated Fan

Harvest aired in Italy today. I already saw the original ep a number
of times and read the transcript thoroughlly, yet I was struck by
the following: when Maria, Michael and Courtney are in the car going
to CS Arizona, Courtney says: This planet's atmosphere is hostile to
our race.
In BIY, Tess feels sick in the kitchen for the first time, falls to
the floor, Max arrives and she says something's wrong with the baby.
Max says: He's sick. It's the atmosphere.
I can't recall if what I'm going to say it's been said already, I
remember I didn't agree that the baby was Alex or Khivar's, but this
could do for me.
Lonnie's card. Lonnie and Rath had been turned down by the ruling
families because they didn't have the Granolith so, when they go to
Roswell they already know what the summit is about. Lonnie
manipulates the situation so that only M/T go to NY. She doesn't
want Iz to go because Khivar might turn up and he can be
"distracted" by two Vilandras, she doesn't want Michael because he
might help Max into taking "wrong" decisions. She wants Tess because
she might come handy.
Max turns down the offer and the dupes don't have their passage
home.
Here comes her plan: at the meeting Nicholas speaks for Khivar but
he's not Khivar. In Harvest Nicholas says to Iz that back to his
world he was considered to be something of a ladies man and his
"weakness" is probably known to Lonnie. Lonnie proposes Nicholas to
impregnate Tess and use her to take the others home, but important
is to have Max into believing the child's is his. Once back in their
home planet, if Max is executed, Nicholas has his own child on the
throne.
Nicholas is not the boy he looks to be, ambiguous is the dialogue he
has with Lonnie during the break at the meeting.
If this is true Tess's child is half skin and half hybrid, that's
why he has problems with the atmosphere.
Once Tess realizes she's pregnant and she feels something's wrong
with the baby, she's an instrument in Lonnie's hands. At this point
she may be willing to make a deal to turn the R3 to Khivar, as the
only way to save her child's life.
It could also be Lonnie's plan to have Alex translate the book and
keep him in LC for two months.
When's time that Tess' tomy should show (even if it doesn't show at
all),and this implies that the preg is a 9 months one, she MWs Max
into believing they had Tex and rushes everything with the 1 month
preg story. The fake Tex could explain why Max, on one hand talks to
Michael about hot alien sex and on the other hand he is scared,
unhappy, cold and distant with the person he had hot alien sex with.
I'm not a man but that sounds strange.
So the child could be real and now is contacting Max because he
contacted him in the first place.
Moving OTM just before Departure could have two meanings,the first
not to show too soon Tess MWing and the second to shorten the time
people snapped out of it. Therefore the need to heavy MW Alex up to
killing him.
One more thing. Here's my take on UPN showing TP and TEOTW: TEOTW
was only meant to part M/L and introduce Tess' story line, nothing
more. There's no way we will ever know what happened 14 year ahead,
once Liz and FM changed it.
We may say that UPN's going to show with The Pilot the beginning or
Liz's storyline and with TEOTW the beginning of Tess' storyline.
[ 11-17-2001: Message edited by: elenac ]
--------------------
elena
Joined: Mar 2001 | Posts: 155



Posted 11-17-2001 02:22 PM (IP Logged)
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Tasyfa
Super Fan



Oh, it's been too long! I just can't find the time to Myth that I
used to Some extremely interesting observations being made
I got a friend, LongTimeFan, to cap Isabel's dream drawing for me
b/c I realized upon a reviewing that the diagrams she's drawn of
herself and Khivar surrounded by pools of light are exactly like the
Destiny book symbol, which was also the symbol that led to the
public library that Michael burned into the grass to call Nasedo.
Could this mean that both Nasedo & Tess were marked as Khivar's?
Like he's trying to claim Isabel now? Also, when you look at the
screencap you can see that Iz has filled in a LOT of the symbols
from the cave map over on the right of the cap. They finally came
back to these symbols late in S2 when Michael recognized them on the
computer screen and the book was translated (supposedly ) and I
hope this means that they'll further use them now!

And about the way that Kal says, "You mated with another alien
hybrid." I too thought that for him to jump to that conclusion when
all Max said was, "I have a son" had unpleasant implications for
human/hybrid procreation. I did enjoy the way he delivered the line,
tho, as though Max had committed some unspeakably horrifying act
I can't wait to see what happens next week! And I'm so glad that UPN
is running Pilot & EOTW. Not only are they 2 of the best eps, but
they're the perfect choices to bring the viewers up to speed on how
everyone got to where they are now.
hugs, Tas
--------------------
Max & Liz: Friends, soulmates, lifebonded; inseparable for eternity.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 3661



Posted 11-17-2001 04:40 PM (IP Logged)
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mezz
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally posted by haniczka:
GraceKel, the biggest problem I'm having is that I think Max Evans
is transforming into Jason Behr. The Max from S1 was so shy,
gentle and reserved. He would rather die than take off for LA by
himself, treat Cal, who could be perceived almost like family, as
though he were some sort of menial servant, treat Liz as though
she were cramping his style, and then come home with a snazzy new
hair-do. I'm sorry if this stiffles Mr. Behr's acting creativity,
but it would have been much more consistant if Max had withdrawn
INTO himself, become MORE anti-social and reserved, sullen.
Atleast the Max at the beginning of S2 was consistant with his
character. This S3 Max doesn't seem like the same person.
Don't forget that Max is at the same time 2 different though related
people. Hybrid Max is still developing and Alien Max we have heard
was cruel, tough, betrayed and hated (if we are to believe what we
have been told by his enemies)
Max has spent his first 16 or so years as a withdrawn personality.
He did this because of fear. He did it for so long that it became
who we thought he truley was. It is not necessarily his true self.
He also discovered in the white room that fear didn't help him. He
is ashamed of who he was in the white room I think. He is ashamed of
his inability to help himself and at the result of it stopping him
helping others in ARRC. He is probably (and I haven't yet seen all
of S2, just heard people talk about it) riddled with guilt at the
way he failed everybody with Tess. I think he has lost faith in
himself. Being careful has not helped him at all because he ended up
being betrayed by those he thought he could trust. He feels that he
has been betrayed by his family of Mike and Iz and his soul in Liz.
Really the only ones who haven't let him down (in his mind - rightly
or wrongly) are Maria who is fairly unreachable at the moment and
Valenti who is going through his own trauma. He never trusted Kyle.
I don't believe he sees Cal as family. Max has never accepted SS as
completely trustworthy, only necessary.
On top of that he is now extra traumatised by losing Alex and while
confused about his son it 1. gives him something to spend his
frustrated energy on and 2. will maybe give him a way to ease his
conscience. He has stopped himself from feeling so long that I think
now he is just going to go with the 'it feels real, it must be real'
scenario.
People with newly discovered power will always experiment with just
how powerful they are. I have no problem with JK showing Max as
doing this in the wrong way sometimes. That is human. We must allow
Max to be flawed or he is not truley a hybrid and Liz's making him
human has had no effect.
I believe that the human personality has the ability to completely
contradict itself. I believe that unless our minds are protected by
'a greater force' that they have the ability to make us into a
stepfod character of ourselves. I believe that we can do things that
are out of character and convince ourselves that they are right even
if we know at the time we are wrong. I believe that desperation and
trauma can make us do almost anything, including making a gentle
person violent. And we only think that Max is gentle because of S1
Max. No one from his previous existence thinks this. The only person
who has said anything positive about him is Larek who said he
destroyed everybody by trying to help them.
His mother has faith in him. She said that his essence is good (if
she is to be believed) I think that Max has to be reckless in some
ways. I think this recklessness will help him in some ways and hurt
him in others that he will regret for his entire life. The point is
that is what we do in our lives. If there is some alien thing
involved in this switch then that fits too in my head. But then my
head sees so many contradictions as normal sometimes I feel like my
brain slides from my scull.
Elenac - I like your Tess/baby theory. It is easy to forget that
Nicholas in reality is no boy. He is also not as young a skin as he
looks. He the most powerful skin we have met and he had the greatest
disguise. Tess was quite scared of him. I am quite willing to
believe that she was no match against him, Lonnie and Rath at the
same time.
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 151



Posted 11-17-2001 06:53 PM (IP Logged)
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haniczka
Dedicated Fan

Taz, so the EYE looking mark indicates "The Mark of Khivar"?
Interesting theory. I wonder how long he has been prowling around???
Mezz, I like how you came to Max's defense. I guess I was hoping
someone would. If what you say is true, then I'll sit back and watch
his character unfold. I'm surprised Liz is staying with him, since
the "meek" Max may have been supressing a now-emerging alien
monster. But, if the writers skillfully take him beyond that, and he
becomes an evolved, believably complex character as a result of all
this, that would be very edifying for me. - And GraceKel, I'll be
open to your theory too. If he's really someone else, he can't hide
in there forever!
Elenac, I too suspect Nicko's involvement with the tex for many of
the reasons you stated. There's also the obvious point that while it
looked as though she'd incinerated him in the end of Harvest, he
shows up quite unharmed in MITC. He was probably involved with her
New York abduction as well. In fact, I believe he was involved with
the whole Alex/Sweden/ mindwarp thing. It was too much for Tess by
herself and as Courtney said, for every power the Hybrids possess,
his could be magnified 1000 times... and are we to suppose he
doesn't hold a candle to Khivar's powers? -HH
Joined: Jan 2001 | Posts: 175



Posted 11-17-2001 07:53 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



Tasyfa, Thanks for posting that pic. If you're still out there, can
your friend get another cap from the same segment? Isabel also
writes "lightning?" and "mountain" next to this symbol (I think):
Over at the Compare N Contrast the booksthread I brought up the
theory that Tess was created to represent the Collective
Consciousness. Now I am thinking that Kvar represents the CC for
Isabel, which she also had to deal with in the books.
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2573



Posted 11-17-2001 09:05 PM (IP Logged)
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healersbabe
Addicted Fan

quote:
Originally posted by elenac:
Courtney says: This planet's atmosphere is hostile to our race.
In BIY, Tess feels sick in the kitchen for the first time, falls
to the floor, Max arrives and she says something's wrong with the
baby. Max says: He's sick. It's the atmosphere.
Thats a very interesting twist to possible fathers . I take it I'm
not alone we'll hunt for anything other than it being King
Jerkaziod's . I think your thought on it being Nicholas could also
work...skins and the royals HAVING to co-exist because their new
leader is half and half.
GraceKel you know how we sometimes think alike, but I gotta say your
theory is convincing me more and more and more each time I read it
there has been a mega character swap going on .
So I'm pitching happy Roswell endings today with a friend and we
thought you know what, where is Zan? Even if in fact this is not Zan
who JB is playing and maybe he hurt his arm and not the character he
was playing (I dunno-could be) I think that a happy Roswell ending
should be Zan searching for Tess all his life because she is the
true hybrid not Ava (so FMax was had to make Tess not leave Roswell
so she'd be there when Zan came back and mated with her), thus
leaving Max for Liz and that would make it be ok for her to stay
with Max since he wouldn't need to go back to Antar because the
people would think Max was Zan--and Zan to be alive (he'd be hiding
out when Max went up to NYC and after the dupes tried to kill him
Max heals him). Max now knows about everything so he goes back into
time to save Zan so he and Tess can end up being together and Max
and Liz can not be bothered.
OKay well hey it works for me !
**BEFORE I FORGET! SHOOTING STARS GALORE TONIGHT IF ANYONE NEEDS TO
CATCH UP ON THEIR WISH MAKING**
The 2001 Leonid meteor shower peaks early Sunday, Nov. 18 and
promises to be the best shooting star show in 35 years. North &
Central America 4:55 a.m. EST 800 per hour NO SPECIAL EQUIPTMENT BUT
YOUR EYES NEEDED
[ 11-17-2001: Message edited by: healersbabe ]
--------------------
Meet the new Max...Energizer Max.
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 1204



Posted 11-17-2001 10:07 PM (IP Logged)
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Shilohaura
New Fan
MEZZ Your statements about the possible importance of Iz in
everything got me to thinking. She did betray them all (supposedly)
in the past. She caused the downfall of her brother, family and
lover (Michael) because she truly loved Khivar (or his perceived
power). Now she's Isabel, but with Volandra's essence. Isabel is a
different person, but with so much conflict from the alien
agressiveness and the human insecurities & fears, that I don't think
she truly knows WHO she really is. That makes her a "fence sitter" -
able to go either way. A perfect pawn.
After reading your post, it dawned on me that she has been used as
the "gateway" to Max for a long time! Possibly just like in her past
life. Nicholas first approached Isabel when they went to Arizona -
first in her room and then with the husks. Also, it was Isabel that
Tess first got chummy with when her overall goal was Max! You could
say this was because Iz is Max' sister, but Tess was playing big
time mind games with her. It was to Iz that Tess first revealed her
mindwarping abilities AND demonstrated that they could be used on
aliens as well as humans! It was Isabel who stated "That's what
you've been doing to Max!", or something like that in White Room.
Now, Khivar makes his appearance and he goes to Volandra first when
Max is supposed to be his enemy. To take her out of harm's way? On
Antar they ALL died -so Volandra's love for Khivar may have been
just been used to draw the King out - Khivar may have killed them
all, including Volandra! Apparently in next week's episode, Max &
Michael are once again drawn to Khivar in an effort to save or
protect Isabel. It may be history repeating itself - which would
make sense out of Kal's warning about pursuing their alien sides.
Their alien sides are "old souls" and already developed. It would be
pursuing their human sides that would change their personalities and
thus their values and destinies.
Tess tried to convince them that their destinies were to be exactly
the same as they were before. Same relationships & same
personalities. Thus her anger at Max' love for Liz instead of her
and her statement "There you were a King, here your just a boy!" But
it seems that the aliens are missing one big character trait - the
empathetic emotions. Except for a few (Kal & Courtney) they're all
business and power. Even their "love" seems forceful & agressive -
as though it's theirs to take. Users. Unable to "connect" to
another. Courtney & Kal seemed to find the human world of senses and
emotions as a pleasurable thing - something they didn't have before.
They saw themselves as rebels to their own kind. It's been said the
King lost everything by trying to make things better - it's hard to
make the decisions necessary to make those changes when you can't
empathize or feel love for others, even when you realize it would
make things better for everyone. Motive without passion could equal
failure when your enemy is ruthless enough to sacrifice his lover to
get you!
I think this is why Khivar wants Isabel now - to draw Max & Michael
out. If he returns with Isabel, it would indicate that he was
victorious over them again! Even if he didn't kill them, he's
returned with the King's sister and the King couldn't stop him. The
King has no way to come after them. Khivar would be superior in
ability & power! Isabel would be his trophy. His marriage to her
would be a political one.
How does this fit into the thread topic? Because they're NOT the
same people they were on Antar! They have all five senses to
experience things with and they also have emotions, and the ability
to EMPATHIZE! . Kal told Max he (they?) need to embrace their human
sides. This is what will give them the strength to defeat Khivar! By
being different people than they were before, they will make
different decisions, truly based on their concern for others. With a
full range of emotions, they can look at situations differently,
present a united and connected front against the enemy rather than
each one being concerned about their own welfare. And it allows for
a wider range of choices - choices about right and wrong ---
conscience!
Max said Liz made him human! He was bonded with his parents, but he
knew they loved who they thought he was. Although he had always
worshipped Liz from afar, it was his relationship with her that
introduced him to feelings & thoughts that were totally new to him.
Now, he's truly confused. Pursuing the alien side with human
emotions is difficult (especially if his brain is MUSH from being
consistently mindwarped by Tess, mindraped by Nicholas, & tortured
by Pierce!). Kal said he was able to enjoy life on Earth, even
without senses, because he deminished his "alieness". The alien side
is ruthless, win at all costs, powerlust. This doesn't mix well with
compassion, empathy & love.
I think he didn't answer Liz' call because he couldn't. He was
following his alien side - mind set on a mission at all costs. Just
reading her name on the phone display caused him to pause -
signified by his turning away from the ship. He knew it would be
heartrenching to hear her voice knowing he may never see her again!
It may have caused him to abandon his mission. A mission he was
strongly committed to because the "baby" thing has drawn him toward
his alien side. The mere sight of her name brought about human
feelings - and he couldn't stand to either lie to her or tell her
goodbye. When Kal reminded him of how much better Earth was than
Antar, I don't think he was referring to the actual planet, but the
bonds and relationships humans are capable of. Earth was better even
though he couldn't fully experience it! He did not remind Max of the
smells, tastes, & textures he almost left behind - he reminded him
of the RELATIONSHIPS he would've left behind! And it will be the
human side of Isabel, and the relationships she has with the others,
that will finally turn her away from Khivar!
Future Max was right, but not in the way he envisioned. Without the
chaos Tess caused, the search would've never started (I don't think
the "message" was from Max' son - I think Khivar had something to do
with it & that he's been around for a long time, JMO) & Max would
not have had to confront the question of who he, the hybrid, truly
is. I think the "search" will ultimately lead to finding the often
mentioned "balance" - human/alien - that makes them all completely
unique individuals and not clones of their alien contributors. I
think this "balance" is what will make them stronger than Khivar
ever imagined and a force to be reckoned with! Ultimately the sense
of self and confidence will assure that history does NOT repeat
itself!
Liz is Max' anchor to Earth and his human side - the side different
from his former "King-self". His search for "balance" will
ultimately lead back to his love for her - that's who & what he
truly is! It's why he can't deal or relate to her while following
his alien side - that puts him out of balance - more toward one side
than the other! Her unique connection with his alieness will allow
her to become a stronger and stronger part of him and his humaness.
I think this season will be about finding that balance - and the
strength of unity & love.
Joined: Aug 2001 | Posts: 23



Posted 11-18-2001 01:03 AM (IP Logged)
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mezz
Dedicated Fan

Shilohaura - Wow. that's great. Now I'm really excited. I don't
think that Max will become a monster. I just think he has as much
potential to become one as do all humans.
haniczka - are you saying the symbol that Michael made at the
library is the eye symbol? Does that mean that the one who burned
the photo was no SS but Kivar? Now that makes more sense than all
the SS theories to me.
What with these two posts my mind is reeling and I have goosebumps.
[ 11-18-2001: Message edited by: mezz ]
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 157



Posted 11-18-2001 02:02 AM (IP Logged)
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Shilohaura
New Fan
I have thought the mysterious man at the library was Khivar since
day 1! The way he burned their photo and stayed in the shadows. I
think he's been orchestrating everything all along! Nicholas, Tess,
the Dupes, and I think there's a good chance he may have been the
one that killed Nesado. That's why I said previously that I thought
he'd been around for quite some time - watching to ascertain exactly
how powerful they are & what they know. Now he's moving in with the
knowledge he's collected. But they are not the same innocent, scared
children they used to be. They're disillusioned, jaded & angry
"almost adults" who want their lives back! I don't think he's had to
travel a long distance in a short while to get here - he's been
looking for them since he found out they were created and he's
possibly been here since before the Pilot!
And, until proven wrong, I believe KHIVAR has more to do with the so
called message from Max' son than the supposed "son" does! It's
distracted Max, taken him to rock bottom emotionally, forced him to
make impulsive and reckless decisions, strained relationships with
his main support group. A real setup for defeat!
I have one other theory. On Antar, I feel that Tess could've
possibly been Khivar's sister! Political marriages are common in
those types of governments and many Kings & Queens couldn't stand
one another! As long as they produced a royal heir, the weren't
forced to spend time together. They said the King was destroyed
because he wanted to help his people. The mommygram said Volandra
was promised to Rath. Could King Zan have nixed that promise in an
attempt to unite the two factions? He would marry Ava & Khivar would
marry Volandra? Could he have forced his sister into something she
didn't want "for the good of all"? It could've caused resentment on
Volandra's part, setting in motion the betrayal.
Or Tess could've been the original betrayer, angry then as she was
in S2 that Zan didn't love her - it was all politics - perhaps he
even loved some one else!!!! (As Max loved Liz instead of Tess!) Ava
told the pod squad that she & Zan were never close. She loved him,
but she always felt he was looking for someone else!
Volandra could've been discovered meeting Rath and Tess/Ava ratted
them all out! Zan could've even taken her out before his own death!
If Zan's people didn't know what actually happened, they would have
included her in the hybrid bunch not knowing her wicked ways! They
would've just thought her brother broke the peace pact. And Isabel's
current attraction to Khivar could be the residual sense of duty &
belonging from the past. She may have even developed some affection
for him as his wife.
I think there's a chance Ava's & Tess' pods were switched - either
by mistake or on purpose. The Dupes were basically decoys - loud,
noticable, and very into being alien. But the granolith was
intrusted to the true R4. Perhaps the same human DNA was used but
differnt alien DNA - or genetically altered DNA. Anyone looking for
the R4 would notice the Dupes rather than the quiet & very human
acting kids in Roswell. It was the library & orb signals that
finally gave them away. Nicholas knew who the real ones were. So did
Courtney & Whitaker. Pierce & Hubble, etc. became suspicious after
Liz' healing, but it wasn't until the library signal that Tess &
Nesado showed up & after the orbs that alien hell broke loose.
Nicholas had Zan killed - not only because he wouldn't cooperate,
but because he knew Max was the real King and had the granolith! He
needed for Zan to have to be replaced. I think Nicholas told the
other Dupes about the Roswell bunch - and it was presented to them
that the Roswell kids were the Dupes. The Dupes were being used.
Khivar originally found them & watched to see if they were for real.
When they set off the orbs, he had proof! THEN came the Skins! Ava
had a personality like the Roswell bunch. Not really into destiny
and perhaps not like she'd been on Antar. She had compassion and
other human qualities. Tess was much more like the Dupes, who
functioned much like those looking for them would expect from all
the negative statements being made by Kal, Nesado (he seemed
surprised that the Earthly King was a "pacifist King"), Courtney,
Whitaker, etc. (Larak didn't seem surprised to see Max in NYC, but I
doubt the others at the summit knew there were 2 "sets". He'd have
no way of knowing Zan had been replaced - he knew Max & Tess, and
the others knew no different!) Tess was deceptive, manipulating, and
very into her alieness. "THIS is the dream, out there is real."
I don't think the baby's real. Or at least not Max'. And I don't
think the "message" was from the baby. There are so many
possibilities out there! I'm looking forward to finding out how it
all turns out!
Oh, geeze! Here I am again obsessing and rationalizing like these
people actually lived! I'm a gonner addict for sure! "Hello. My name
is Carol & I'm a Roswell addict......"
Joined: Aug 2001 | Posts: 23



Posted 11-18-2001 03:40 AM (IP Logged)
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mezz
Dedicated Fan

Hmmm. Good thoughts. And addicted. I am sooo addicted and no-one
around me watches. auggh I'm completely on my own and obsessed with
the characters and what they are doing. i saw Moulin Rouge the other
day and i'm watching thinking - this story line has the same
elements as EOTW I caught myself and shook my head. sad aren't we
- but at least we enjoy our madness
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 157



Posted 11-18-2001 09:58 AM (IP Logged)
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Vihmakass
Dedicated Fan

sry.OT post
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Vihmakass ]
--------------------
Why I want say : look, the King is naked!
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 271



Posted 11-18-2001 10:05 AM (IP Logged)
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Tasyfa
Super Fan



shapeshifter I'll ask her if she can cap the whole thing for me. She
just learned how so she's prolly feeling enthusiastic enough still
to agree! I might have to email the caps to someone tho since the
only photo account I have is a geocities and they don't allow
offsite linking
Shilohaura Your post about Iz as the gateway was awesome! And
intriguing in that Max and Michael DO always come to her rescue. It
makes me think of gang wars and Mafia tactics--the weak spots, the
targets, are always the loved ones of the enemy. The sisters,
girlfriends, children. Max is being led around by his concern for
his son already and now he's trying to keep his sister safe. The
next logical step would be to try to take out Liz, or kidnap her.
I'm guessing that the main reason that hasn't been done since MTTM
is b/c it would similarly force Max to acknowledge her importance to
him when he goes about rescuing her.
Mezz Fascinating thoughts about Max's personality. ITA that much of
his withdrawnness was out of fear rather than shyness, but I do
think he's naturally very shy. I forget who commented that S3 Max
seems like a different person. To me, that whole Hollywood persona
screamed "politician." In other words, ZAN again! In OTM Larek says
that Zan was too shy to introduce himself to Ava so he did it for
him. At that point, I would think that Zan's father was still the
King and he & Larek were still quite young. Kings don't have time
for playing in the sea with their friends! But later, once Zan had
ascended the throne, he would have changed. He couldn't NOT. And
that smiling persona is one that a LOT of people develop, no matter
how shy they are. Oddly enough, it's actually easier to adopt that
kind of persona to interact with people when you're shy, than to
reveal your true personality. It distances you from what's really
going on.
hanzicka Yes, the Eye Symbol in Isabel's drawing and the Destiny
book symbol are the same. The idea that it's the Mark of Khivar is
just that so far: an idea I haven't gotten any farther on it! I
just noticed that every time that symbol has shown up, it's
associated with something that we now know is tainted by Khivar.
When Michael burned the symbol into the grass at the library, it
supposedly called Nasedo--who made a deal with Khivar. Tess took the
Destiny book from the same library--she was part of the deal.
Isabel's dream--well, that's obvious Maybe Shilohaura is right and
Michael DID call Khivar to the scene by burning that symbol, not
Nasedo. It's always bugged me that it's NOT the same symbol as the
one in ITW, which was supposedly the message sent by Nasedo. If it
HAD been, if Michael had burned the swirling galaxy symbol into the
ground at whatever location the cave map specified, would it have
called Nasedo? Tic Tac? Kal? Who knows?!
Man, it's nice to have something more concrete to obsess over again
I can't wait for tomorrow night! Oh--with all the talk about Max &
Michael switching, etc., maybe I should respost my theory from last
season, after ITL&ITB? That's when I "date" the changeover
from--that whole park scene that I absolutely obsessed about and
picked apart
hugs, Tas
--------------------
Max & Liz: Friends, soulmates, lifebonded; inseparable for eternity.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 3681



Posted 11-18-2001 10:09 AM (IP Logged)
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Tasyfa
Super Fan



Vihm OK, that is totally bizarre! I love it! Guess that our hybrids
would lean towards the human side according to that, since they seem
to have soul-matrices and round-pupiled eyes and, well, external
genetalia Too funny! What's the site, can you link it?
hugs, Tas
--------------------
Max & Liz: Friends, soulmates, lifebonded; inseparable for eternity.
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 3681



Posted 11-18-2001 10:21 AM (IP Logged)
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Vihmakass
Dedicated Fan

sry.OT
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Vihmakass ]
--------------------
Why I want say : look, the King is naked!
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 271



Posted 11-18-2001 10:38 AM (IP Logged)
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elenac
Dedicated Fan

My take on Iz's rushed wedding.
Back in ITL&ITB Max in a Zan-ish way prohibits Iz to leave Roswell
to go to college not taking into consideration in the least their
parents consent to her and thus their authority. Iz's reaction is:
This Isabel Evans is dead.
Clearly this's something you say but can't accept deeply. Therefore,
unconsciously, she decides to get herself a husband whose rights on
her come before those of a brother and with whom she can decide
freely a future together.
But then, here comes Khivar!
[ 11-18-2001: Message edited by: elenac ]
--------------------
elena
Joined: Mar 2001 | Posts: 161



Posted 11-18-2001 08:23 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



mezz, ITU on being a lone Roswell fanatic 'crying in the wilderness'
shilohaura, I can believe that Kvar burned the symbol in BD, but I
think Kal was the guy in the coat burning the picture of the
aliens--it was his perfuntory effort at 'doing his job' to protect
them from Nasedo, Tess, and their box of Max pics (which allowed
Tess to practice her mind warps).
elenac, Your reasoning on why Isabel would rush into a marriage
makes total sense--it ties together Season 2 and 3 nicely. Too bad
they didn't give any screen time to it. I guess, though, if they
did, it would brand the marriage as a mistake, and I guess they're
going to take advantage of the humor potential of Jessie's situation
(like the old Bewitched and I Dream Of Genie sitcoms).
Vihmakass, that stuff you posted is soo funny! But it is also a
little racist too if anyone ever took it seriously. But if the
people that originally wrote that stuff were racist, it is also kind
of cool that JK and others (Star Trek) are using it now to tell
stories that reveal the error of racial prejudice (with the
Antarians as symbols of people persecuted for their origins). But
then following what Kal said about the 'alien side' being bad, it
seems that the plot almost embraces racist ideas. Oh well, the
story's not over yet.
Tasyfa, you can email me the pics and I'll post them on my ISP's
server or the one that healersbabe has graciously offered for the
Archive site.
[ 11-18-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ]
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2579



Posted 11-18-2001 10:55 PM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Addicted Fan

I just found a screencap for one of those 3+1 patterns from long ago
(the Pilot). It's one that we discussed before, but I never had a
picture to go with it. Here it is, courtesy of LongTimeFan (Ros2
board, OTO thread 201 p.9):
Percussion section with 3 tympani + 1 bass drum.

This has an echo in S2: Maria's photo of Alex's instruments
(screencap currently inaccessable, but it's 3 bass guitars standing
upright + one string bass lying on its side). In each case, the 1
item differs from the 3 by being at right angles to them, and by
having some twofold feature -- the two (vertical) drumheads of the
bass drum vs. one each (horizontal) for the tympani, the two f-holes
of the string bass vs. one hole in the soundboard for the guitars.
I wonder whether even the choice of bass guitar for Alex was made
for symbolic reasons? The bass guitar has 4 strings, instead of 6
for the kind of guitar that Valenti plays. (Remember when Liz picked
up Alex's guitar and strummed each of the strings, twice, for two
sets of four tones.)
[ 11-18-2001: Message edited by: Nemo ]
Joined: Dec 99 | Posts: 1005



Posted 11-18-2001 11:38 PM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Addicted Fan

Speaking of the OTO's (including Tasyfa), those guys are amazing. I
thought this thread used to be fast, but they sometimes do about 10
pages a day.

by Sprinkles, from OTO #197 p5
bigspam posted some cute pictures of Shiri Appleby in costume for
the Christmas episode (taken around Halloween) on this thread:
(OTO #197, p1)
[ 11-18-2001: Message edited by: Nemo ]
Joined: Dec 99 | Posts: 1005



Posted 11-19-2001 01:45 AM (IP Logged)
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cybercycle
Dedicated Fan

Cool observations, Nemo!
Login Name: laughingdragon | Joined: Oct 2001 | Posts: 266



Posted 11-19-2001 04:14 AM (IP Logged)
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elenac
Dedicated Fan

Few thoughts on your last theories.
Alien feelings so far expressed (please add more if they've been
portrayed):
Whitaker/Nicholas care for Iz even if only after a feeling of
belonging, you belong to us thus you're safe with us.
Courtney worshipping/admiration for Michael, as the only one who
could save them from Zan's mistakes.
Khivar jealousy/love for Iz.
And here's the point. So Iz could've been used back on Antar as bait
to capture Zan and Rath and Khivar is the same that showed up in BD.
It could be but here's my point.
If Khivar is here since BD it either means that he can travel back
and forth from Antar or he's been here all the time, but in this
case he left his planet at war ungoverned for at least two years and
that's unlikely.
On the other hand he leaves in the hands of his emissaries the task
to bring back the R3, but most important the Royal seal, and then
shows up at Iz' wedding to tell her she belongs to him. This sounds
very much like a jealous guy in love claiming rights over a lover.
My take on Vilondra's death is that she's been killed by Rath for
two reasons, the first because she betrayed her brother and her
people the second that she betrayed him to whom was promised. And
Nicholas killed him because he killed Vilandra. In this way it could
be explained why M/I never submitted to their Destiny and
Whitaker/Nicholas feelings over Vilandra.
Even if mom knew that her daughter was a betrayer, she would have
taken her essence to give her the change to live again.
It's sweet the theory of humans being the good guy and aliens being
the bad guy. Let's meet half-way here because, unfortunately, even
too often the "search" button is necessary to find the good guy in
humans.

One last thing addressed to all viewers that claim Jesse's character
hasn't been portrayed enough to like him. I'm sure they're talking
for him meaning that if he only turns away for one moment too long
his eyes from gorgeous Iz, he would go: How am I in this situation
all of a sudden?
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: elenac ]
--------------------
elena
Joined: Mar 2001 | Posts: 161



Posted 11-19-2001 05:53 AM (IP Logged)
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plumeria
Moderator
Roswell (1)



I'm curious -- this doesn't seem to be as purely focused on Liz
anymore. If this is correct, perhaps we should just re-title it the
"Alien Mythology" thread? Or "Characters' Importance to the Alien
Mythology"?
--------------------
Plu's Fic
We put a piece of our soul in every character we write about.
(Luinthoron)
Joined: May 2000 | Posts: 6876



Posted 11-19-2001 06:22 AM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



quote:
Originally posted by plumeria:
I'm curious -- this doesn't seem to be as purely focused on Liz
anymore. If this is correct, perhaps we should just re-title it
the "Alien Mythology" thread? Or "Characters' Importance to the
Alien Mythology"?
Hey Plu
Perhaps, but let's wait a bit.
Note this paragraph from the Intro:
quote:
...
What is Subject for Discussion?
Liz's importance to the Pod Squad - and the survival of the human
race for that matter - and theories concerning the beings -
especially Max - and mysteries swirling around Liz - are what we
discuss. So - feel free to join on in, or just lurk! And don't
worry about going off on a tangent - they ALL tend to lead back to
Liz's importance! (Especially lately!)
Also, a quick look at the past threads (See the Archives will bear
out Zero's original premise that we always do come back to Liz's
Importance, even though we seem to stray afield in gathering
evidence.
Also, with The Pilot and TEOTW about to reair, I think the focus
will come around rather quickly.
And, finally, I wonder if the thread will get so scattered that it
will fly apart (like Max's molecules almost did in the books ) if
we broaden the focus.
So, I vote to hold off for a bit. But if it did get retitled, maybe
"Roswell Bureau of Investigation: Seeking Clues to the Importance of
Liz and others to the Alien Mythology"?
Any other thoughts?
And Nemo, about Liz strumming 4 strings 2 times in S2, that also
reminds me of the books in which each person (alien or otherwise)
had their own, unique note.
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2579



Posted 11-19-2001 10:19 AM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Addicted Fan

I hope this thread can keep its old title.
(In large organizations, names that are specific, historic, maybe
colorful or quirky, increasingly tend to get replaced with more
managerially-correct, all-encompassing ones, often polysyllabic and
bland. During my time in the Army, the mess hall got renamed the
dining facility, and by now it's probably the multipurpose building.
My old outfit, the National Bureau of Standards, is now the National
Institute of Standards and Technology. I hope our thread can be
spared this trend.)
In case the connection with Liz wasn't clear in my posts about the
3+1 symbols, a plausible interpretation is that the 1 refers to Liz,
the twofoldness suggests two sides to her nature now (altered by an
alien?, in some way not yet explained, but hinted at by Ava).
GraceKel, you pointed out the 3+1 in Jesse's statement to Max, that
his dad died when he was 13. On replaying this, it struck me that
the next number he mentioned was 4 (the number of years before his
mother started dating again). I also got a better look at that spice
rack in the Evans kitchen (on the counter, far right). It had two
columns of 4 holes each. One of them was empty, as if to suggest the
absence of Tess?
shapeshifter, thanks for the connection of the musical notes with an
idea from the books.
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Nemo ]
Joined: Dec 99 | Posts: 1005



Posted 11-19-2001 11:33 AM (IP Logged)
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Alexis
Addicted Fan

Merci Beaucoup, aldabaran!
Tas-it's good to see you back here, too!
Mezz-I agree that people can do things that are out of character.
But I think that you can create a flawed character that is still
likable! I think the writer's have committed major character
assassination on Max's character, causing most fans to not like him,
not recognize him, etc. Plus when you think about new viewers it's a
travesty! You want viewers to cheer someone on not chant "Go Kal! Go
Kal!" From what I've read that is exactly how most people felt. Same
thing with the M/L connection. Can the viewers really see it? Are
they rooting for them? I think not. (just read healerbabe's post and
the fact that she named him King Jerkazoid gives you an indication
as to how others feel). I want a flawed character, but I want the
same character(s). You do have good points as to testing your
powers, but I think that Max would be able to do that to someone
inherently evil more then pushing around a poor old pion like Kal,
even if it was to save his son. It may be a way to do it, but the
real Max would ask himself (and I mean really struggle with it) if
it were the right way to do things.
hancizka-the question is will the writers do this "skillfully?" My
recent experience with the writers is an emphatic "NO!"
Shilohaura-I completely agree that Kivar (and everyone else) seem to
use Isabel as a way to get to Max. Although Isabel is supposed to be
strong, she is really very insecure and those that know her best
(besides Max and Michael) use those insecurities against her. Of
course, I am one of those that does not like shows just on one
character-especially Isabel's character who has way too much
exposure-and I mean that literally!
In terms of Liz-I hope they address the changes she should be going
through! Why not give her more powers so she can really help the
Podsters?
I think he didn't answer Liz' call because he couldn't. He was
following his alien side - mind set on a mission at all costs. Just
reading her name on the phone display caused him to pause -
signified by his turning away from the ship. He knew it would be
heartwrenching to hear her voice knowing he may never see her again!
It may have caused him to abandon his mission. A mission he was
strongly committed to because the "baby" thing has drawn him toward
his alien side. The mere sight of her name brought about human
feelings - and he couldn't stand to either lie to her or tell her
goodbye.
I think that this is wishful thinking, at least in terms of how the
writers and directors portrayed it. Although I agree that he was
acting more "alien" I think that he showed no remorse and didn't
really pause when looking at the phone. I wish they had shown some
sort of struggle, but they didn't. Liz is just pushed aside. And
then, being the caring person she is, she hears him out. The
writer's would have done more justice to Max's remorse if they had
shown him thinking on the drive back. Then maybe I would have
believe the line "I'll never leave you, Liz." Because they didn't do
that, it was just words. And in my experience of the real Max and
Liz, it is never just words.
Liz is Max' anchor to Earth and his human side - the side different
from his former "King-self". His search for "balance" will
ultimately lead back to his love for her - that's who & what he
truly is! It's why he can't deal or relate to her while following
his alien side - that puts him out of balance - more toward one side
than the other! Her unique connection with his alienness will allow
her to become a stronger and stronger part of him and his humanness.
I think this season will be about finding that balance - and the
strength of unity & love.
This is definitely Max and Liz the way they should be!
Okay, Liz's importance-I think it is important for her to be on
alert and be ready to snap Max (and possibly Iz and Michael) out of
the alien clouds they could be in. She's the one who looks for
patterns and I think she needs to open her eyes and speak up when
she notices how stupid (and unlike their characters) they are all
acting!
Okay, that's enough out of me!
--------------------
Sweet Dreams make for blissfull sleep
Joined: Oct 2000 | Posts: 1398



Posted 11-19-2001 11:47 AM (IP Logged)
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George Roswell Fan
New Fan
Shilohaura - Your theory about Ava and Tess being switched is mine
as well. Although I am more certain it is the truth by the way each
character acted differently. Ava was definately a caring person not
like Tess. Although Tess did love Max (she was created from the same
essense), she was the dupe and therefor much more persuadable by
nasedo.
Ava is still out there. When she returns, Max will see in Ava what
he couldn't see in Tess. He will have even more memories of their
past lives together and Max will have an even stronger drive to
bring order to what is now chaos on the 5 planets.
Max has a duty to bring peace. It's his destiny. He is not destined
to have a happy romatnic life with Liz on earth. He is king.
Millions of lives are in turmoil waiting for Max's return.
Login Name: George132 | Joined: Nov 2001 | Posts: 9



Posted 11-19-2001 12:11 PM (IP Logged)
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peej
New Fan

In to have and to hold Liz says, "could you imagine what if I had
married max"?
I find that sentence strange, and disappointing.
Joined: Feb 2001 | Posts: 35



Posted 11-19-2001 03:36 PM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


First and foremost - Hi and Welcome to all the newbies!
Plumeria - As the "originator" of this thread - long ago and far
away - I do not want the focus, nor the title, changed from Liz.
Though we may wander - which, given Liz's screen time and lack of
substantive storyline this Season so far - our wandering does tend
to lead back to Liz. She is the glue that holds this show together
for me - always has been and always will be, and how she fits into
things is what intriques me and what I want to discuss. While I
enjoy other characters, and make side comments about them - I'm
usually pointing something out only because I believe that it
ultimately relates to how Liz fits in to the Alien Mythology - past,
present and future.
Plus - as SS pointed out, with the planned airing of Pilot and The
End of The World, maybe the writters are wising up (Dreaming here),
and we will see a refocus on Liz and her importance soon!! Hopefully
Dreaming!
If the topic of the thread was broadened, I would probably not post
- and the thread would differ little from some of the other threads.
Someone - sorry, can't remember who - mentioned "flawed characters
that we still like" - and wondered if the writers could pull it off?
One of my attractions to Liz was that she was flawed in little ways
- insecure feeling like a smallest of small town girls, etc. - but
with such potential to greatness. And Max had his flaws - hiding
behind the tree - that Liz seemed to help him overcome and bring out
the best in him. I'm not thrilled with where we have gotten, but
still hope that the writers can recapture some of the magic. I think
of Farscape which has a cast of characters that work well together -
though all have major flaws - yet, it is hard not to like all of
them. Even the bad guy - Scorpius - it likable in an odd way. But
the hero of the show - John Criton - is odd at times, and has many a
flaw, but is written (and acted) so well, you can't help but adore
him! (or his "balance" - Aeryn!) The sign of good writing is to be
able to create an imperfect character, that rises above those
imperfections to meet the challenge - while I've seen this with Liz
and Maria and Kyle and Mikey G (Occasionally) - I've yet to see it
with Max or Iz. Maybe with time?
Zero
FAN!
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 973



Posted 11-19-2001 03:56 PM (IP Logged)
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elenac
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally posted by plumeria:
I'm curious -- this doesn't seem to be as purely focused on Liz
anymore.
This is the idea one may get and actually all the times I post here
to talk about the show I ask myself if I go OT. But talking about my
reasons, everything is about Liz even if I don't mention her. If
this's a problem I'll make sure to mention her.
--------------------
elena
Joined: Mar 2001 | Posts: 161



Posted 11-19-2001 04:01 PM (IP Logged)
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Alexis
Addicted Fan

You and me both! How confusing this will be for new viewers,
especially after they re-air EOTW where it disheartens Liz to know
she won't be marrying Max! Argh the writers!!!!!
--------------------
Sweet Dreams make for blissfull sleep
Joined: Oct 2000 | Posts: 1398



Posted 11-19-2001 05:23 PM (IP Logged)
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Vihmakass
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally posted by plumeria:
I'm curious -- this doesn't seem to be as purely focused on Liz
anymore. If this is correct, perhaps we should just re-title it
the "Alien Mythology" thread? Or "Characters' Importance to the
Alien Mythology"?
Sorry.
I this topic and all our Mythers here.
Im edited all my OT posts and going to
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 271



Posted 11-19-2001 05:54 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



quote:
Originally posted by peej:
In to have and to hold Liz says, "could you imagine what if I had
married max"?
I find that sentence strange, and disappointing.
Hey peej
Okay, I just checked this with captioning, and it's, "What if I had
to marry Max?"
This is both disconcerting and intriguing. "Had to"????? Does she
mean "had to" in a Liz-Is-Important-to-the-Alien-Mythology sort of
way?
And can I now hear Plu in the background saying, "Sheesh guys, I get
the picture. It's a Liz Myth deal" ? (Or is that just "the sound
of" my own "rapidly inflating ego"? )
And peej, I know you aren't really a "New Fan."
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2592



Posted 11-19-2001 06:25 PM (IP Logged)
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healersbabe
Addicted Fan


peej
quote:
Originally posted by Vihmakass:
Sorry.
I this topic and all our Mythers here.
Im edited all my OT posts and going to
Vih you cannot go into lurking mode :tear:!!! Your posts are one of
my main pleasures in lurking myself so two silent lurkers= RD..uh,
HB same deal
POST! POST! POST! And as Shapeshifter and everyone else said
everything eventually leads up back to the main title so it IS
relevant to talk even about Isabel's wedding because it could all
bring back Anatarian mythology and where the Liz origins came into
call...so even off tangents are still in the same line!
quote:
Originally posted by Tasyfa:
Shilohaura Your post about Iz as the gateway was awesome! And
intriguing in that Max and Michael DO always come to her rescue.
It makes me think of gang wars and Mafia tactics--the weak spots,
the targets, are always the loved ones of the enemy. The sisters,
girlfriends, children.
ITO!! Tasyfa its sooooo good to see you back in here aswell!! You
always have such great tact at putting the puzzle pieces back in a
happy order !! I love your positiveness and the polly way you look
at stuff ! I do think its soo soo soo sad that to see that Liz can't
be together with Max in EOTW I dunno why they are showing this ...I
hope they aren't going to ripe them apart again...I dunno how much
rollercoast I can take !! I guess true love is never important nor
has a happy ending *sigh*.
And I have no new mything to add just !
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: healersbabe ]
--------------------
"Come on Wil just take your shirt off and tell us"~Phebe to Brad
Pit, FRIENDS :)
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 1305



Posted 11-19-2001 10:37 PM (IP Logged)
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Style
Dedicated Fan

Hey guys, wormhole. Still the granoith. What happened?
Style
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 382



Posted 11-19-2001 10:53 PM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Extreme Fan


Well I hope we aren't going to make the same mistake with this
thread as the show has made with its lack of focus on LIZ LOL!!!!
Maybe not all posters here but most believe that EVERYTHING comes
back to Liz LOL!!!!So of course my vote is for the thread title to
remain as such!!!
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2155



Posted 11-19-2001 11:05 PM (IP Logged)
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Style
Dedicated Fan

Hopefully, this thread can be saved. Hoping.
Grace, personally no, but another had to make less.
Liz Parker is Roswell, no doubt about.
Style
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 382



Posted 11-19-2001 11:08 PM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Extreme Fan


Mezz I liked your post and of course things could go that way or be
that way, I guess I keep waiting for the big PLOT TWIST(LOL) so I
tend to dig deeper than many on these boards LOL!!!
Shilohaura--welcome to our thread!!!
Nemo--thanks for that season1 pic!!!
Alexis--you see the double talk too in regards to Zan hey? Glad to
know its not just me.
Zero--I so agree with you==give us back the beautiful intelligent
mature Liz Parker and the serious darked haired gentle, sensitive
but strong Max Evans. I so agree with you both Liz and Max were
EQUALLY STRONG in season1.
Actually I have a THEORY LOL but I am pretty reluctant to post it
because I feel if they do read our thread they will run fast and
furiously in the opposite direction just to spite me LOL!!!
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2155



Posted 11-19-2001 11:13 PM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Extreme Fan


Style--I agree Liz Parker is the HEART of Roswell to me too!!!
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2155



Posted 11-19-2001 11:16 PM (IP Logged)
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GraceKel
Extreme Fan


Elenac--interesting thoughts on Rath possibly killing Vilondra
hmmmmm very interesting.
--------------------
yes
Joined: Dec 2000 | Posts: 2155



Posted 11-22-2001 03:21 AM (IP Logged)
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mezz
Dedicated Fan

Alexis - re likable but flawed. I have to admit that I have only
seen up to Heart of Mine so really bad Max hasn't not raised his
head yet. Perhaps I will hate him then too. But then naaaah don't
think that's a possibility
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 168



Posted 11-22-2001 05:40 AM (IP Logged)
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elenac
Dedicated Fan

Almost two weeks ago TEOTW aired in Italy, I have the original ep on
tape and watched it like 1 million times. Yet my colleague, who I
have introduced to this series, told me why wasn't Iz in this ep? I
went: really? Well, I never noticed and thought this was strange as
she is one of the three most important aliens of this show, in an
alien's show. Liz is in all eps!
Just to link all my previous posts to Liz's importance to the alien
Myth (but this was clear in my head all along), and glad that some
of you find my takes interesting, I'm throwing in some
considerations.
Today's positions of Max's most important women:
Bride: left for Antar with his child even if he decided not to go
along (troubled pregnancy?)
Mother: was not able to soften her husband's decision to through Max
out of their house.
Sister: has rushed into a marriage and is hoping in unaware Jesse to
brake free from her brother's sub dual, but is risking to be
swallowed up into her past by Khivar.
Liz: she's standing by him, robbing a convenience store with him,
risking 20 years jail after he suggested her to hold a gun, offering
him to help find his child, indicating him from afar the right way
to go, taking him back even if he's neglecting her.
So his women have somehow put some distance in between themselves
and him, now why is Liz doing this?
If his bride comes back with his child, he'll have a family, which
will exclude her. He's a royal and has to stand up for his duties.
But if the child's is Nicholas, as I strongly hope, the situation
will be totally different.
Strange is also the fact that since day one she's pushing Max into
finding all the answers to unfold the mystery of his previous life,
even when he was unwilling or afraid to go for it, even if it
implied to push him to Tess, consciously or unconsciously even when
he was busy with Tess she's pursuing this project up to find the DB
translation that will allow him to go back home.
This could fall under that theory that Liz could be his protector,
but I won't go for that and won't either go for the "just love"
line. Or would depict her as some character out of a 1800 century
French feuilleton, which I would dread.
In conclusion, this is something I'm going to think about and let
you know if I'll ever get somewhere interesting.
If Lonnie's plan was as I imagined it, then also Rath wanting "to
do" Liz with Lonnie's blessing could mean that Liz was his reward
for not being Tess's child father as Nicholas held in his hands
their passage home. But Liz turned him down and he could only steal
a kiss.
In S&B they told us that Nasedo (SS) and Whitaker (Skin) had sex all
summer and Maria was hoping they used birth control. In TEOTW after
Max says to Liz that in his time line they made love she says that
making love with him was the farthest thing in her mind and she adds
"I didn't even have protection". Why worry about it if she didn't
want to make love in the first place?
But this way we've been informed that SS, skins, hybrids and humans
can have children if they don't use protection.
--------------------
elena
Joined: Mar 2001 | Posts: 169



Posted 11-22-2001 06:05 AM (IP Logged)
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mezz
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally posted by elenac:
In S&B they told us that Nasedo (SS) and Whitaker (Skin) had sex
all summer and Maria was hoping they used birth control. In TEOTW
after Max says to Liz that in his time line they made love she
says that making love with him was the farthest thing in her mind
and she adds "I didn't even have protection". Why worry about it
if she didn't want to make love in the first place?
But this way we've been informed that SS, skins, hybrids and
humans can have children if they don't use protection.
I agree with you on the SS/Skin thing but with Max and Liz i think
that they are still caught in the -we don't really know- state of
mind. In M2TM Tess said the normal methods still apply but in SH the
conversation between M and L is
M: I can't ask you to do anything that might harm you in any way.
L: I know
M: But I have no idea what that might be.
I think he might add that he doesn't even know who he is or what's
right or wrong or something like that. Memory is fading. Haven't
watched it for a while.
I think Liz would always think of protection because she is a
careful person who always thinks of consequences and so would have
drilled it into herself that precautions were a must. I think she is
the kind of person who would have taken note of all the safe sex
propaganda.
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 168



Posted 11-22-2001 06:30 AM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



quote:
Originally posted by elenac:
Almost two weeks ago TEOTW aired in Italy,
...Just to link all my previous posts to Liz's importance to the
alien Myth ...
So [Max's] women have somehow put some distance in between
themselves and him [see full post above], now why is Liz doing
this [standing by him]?
If his bride comes back with his child, he'll have a family, which
will exclude her. ...
...since day one she's pushing Max into finding all the answers to
unfold the mystery of his previous life, even when he was
unwilling or afraid to go for it, even if it implied to push him
to Tess, ...
...This could fall under that theory that Liz could be his
protector, but I won't go for that and won't either go for the
"just love" line. ...
...In conclusion, this is something I'm going to think about and
let you know if I'll ever get somewhere interesting.....
elena, how can you leave me hanging? I was sure you were going to
explain all! Anyway, TEOTW will be airing here in 3 weeks, so there
will probably be more discussion of that pivitol ep.
Okay, about Interruptus: LIZ IS VERY IMPORTANT to the aliens in this
ep. Once again, a cell phone from our gal prevents Max from doing
something he will regret. And once again, she uncovers (literally)
evidence and scheming that could harm Max.
In an email during this board's blackout, Zero asked a good
question: Why didn't Max jump in the wormhole when he had the
chance? It was his ticket back to Antar and his son.
In Rtdg's site, there is a cut line from the end of Control in which
Max says that Tess & his son didn't make it to Antar. So maybe Max
now knows this?
Then, there are only 2 other reasons why he wouldn't jump in the
Wormhole:
1) He didn't jump fast enough and
2) He didn't want to leave Liz
Now, in my RBI mode (seeking clues that will eventually lead to the
Importance of Liz to the Alien Mythology): Liz's Dad wears a diamond
patterned tie. We have long pondered the symbolism of the diamond
pattern on this show. The "key" to the space ship is a diamond. So
then, do diamond symbols point to keys to Antar? Maybe Liz's dad
knows something about Liz that has always made her important to the
alien mythology?
And THE MOST OBVIOUS WEIRD-BUT-UNEXPLAINED PROP/CLUE: The three
license plates in the window behind Phillip and Jeff: In order of
their passing them (from right to left): Florida, Arizona, Iowa.
[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ]
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2592



Posted 11-22-2001 09:10 AM (IP Logged)
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peej
New Fan

hi all
iv been thinking about the change liz has because of max healing
her. the thing that concerns me (would like to know what others
think). Is that Kyle, kids ext would be changed too? I hope that is
not the case. I would be really disappointed. It takes away the
magic of it all, perhaps the reason it wont change the others is
because Liz was the first to be healed and you know the soul mate
thing. Im really selfish when it comes to these type things, with
the flashes I wanted it to only effect max and Liz.
What is it with these past live aliens that affect the pod (drives
me insane.)? This interprets ep was great, when the aliens from
their past show up, our earth aliens really do have a hard time
staying grounded. Notice how isabel was willing to leave everyone
(even max, her home) until Jessie came along. You've got to wonder
if in their past life if zan and vilondra were close? liz and the
message board, very intresting. (funny that what we do)
[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: peej ]
Joined: Feb 2001 | Posts: 36



Posted 11-22-2001 02:23 PM (IP Logged)
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elenac
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally posted by mezz:
I think Liz would always think of protection .......the kind of
person who would have taken note of all the safe sex propaganda.
Maybe, but her line together with Maria's line sound so forced.
In Liz's case she is definitely saying no to making love and
immediately after she's worring about protection? No no no this is
confusing and contraddicting, considering that the protection a
woman would use needs the advise of a specialist.
In Maria's case it's a teen that's worring about two adults at least
twice her age if they're taking birth control?
Hummmm. Anyway I just wanted to stress that in both cases it was way
too forced and that maybe they were suggesting us something.
SS - Secrets must be disclosed little by little and a pinch of
suspence is necessary.
[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: elenac ]
--------------------
elena
Joined: Mar 2001 | Posts: 169



Posted 11-22-2001 03:07 PM (IP Logged)
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healersbabe
Addicted Fan


Okie , my buddy was visiting me this past weekend and dropped me off
(bless her ) the pilot which I had never seen before and S1 so I'm
having a pretty dandy thanksgiving rosfeast ...which is actually
making me all confused in mything now so I have to go back and read
the past starting theories you guys had to enjoy even more now
These caps where up at the dreamers thought you might like to take a
bite out of :
Interruptus did start an intriguing storyline - Will Philip find out
what Max is?
Not if Liz can help!



And we thought the parents weren't paying attention!

Provence posted them I think .
BTW IF ANYONE HAS NOT SEEN THESE YET ENJOY TAKING A PEEK AT THIS
MOST INCREDIBLE TABASCO WORTHY SITE BY SHAPESHIFTER!!
http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/LizMythology/

End of plug
[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: healersbabe ]
--------------------
"Come on Wil just take your shirt off and tell us"~Phebe to Brad
Pit, FRIENDS :)
Joined: Jul 2001 | Posts: 1305



Posted 11-22-2001 10:37 PM (IP Logged)
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mezz
Dedicated Fan

Maybe all people that are healed are changed but are changed in
different ways and to different extents according to their relation
to the aliens and their personality. After all, only Iz can
dreamwalk and only Tess can mind warp but they can all change
molecules.
Joined: May 2001 | Posts: 168



Posted 11-22-2001 10:58 PM (IP Logged)
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Mavonne
Obsessed Fan


I hope everyone enjoyed their Thanksgiving Day. I'm basically a
stranger here, but I'm posting because I see this as a positive
thread and I'm feeling a little negative about the show so perhaps
some immersion into 'Lizcentricity' will help. Also, I need to visit
my Friendshippers... So I guess I'll lurk. Please continue to
Lizmythologize.
--------------------
Back in 1999, there was this good show called 'Roswell'...
Can you say this very, very fast?
"The sixth sheik's sixth sheep's sick."
Joined: Nov 2000 | Posts: 1825



Posted 11-23-2001 06:43 AM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



Hey Mavonne!
Glad you're seeking a positive spin. I figure you might represent a
sea change in attitude among "fans."
I'm wondering if Liz's discovery that Mr. Evans knows Max was at the
Empire State Building will cause the I Know An Alien Club to track
down Ava for a cover story. Or, will the teen pregnancy come out
with Tess being dead or abandoning Junior (leaving him for Max & Liz
to care for). Or, will this be a metaphor for the teen dad that
never does see his kid? (Pictures of SPOT on milk cartons on Antar?)
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2592



Posted 11-23-2001 02:23 PM (IP Logged)
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Reggie
Addicted Fan

quote:
Originally posted by shapeshifter:
Hey Mavonne!
Glad you're seeking a positive spin. I figure you might represent
a sea change in attitude among "fans."
I'm wondering if Liz's discovery that Mr. Evans knows Max was at
the Empire State Building will cause the I Know An Alien Club to
track down Ava for a cover story. (Pictures of SPOT on milk
cartons on Antar?)
I'm afraid the fans' sea change is a "see" change: See Smallville.
See 24. See The Weather Channel. JK/KKB made it quite clear that
they thought there was nothing wrong with Roswell, and if we didn't
like it we should watch something else. Indeed.
Liking all the proposed twists on the "plot". My take is: Tess was
MWed by Nikolas in MitC, to believe that her Father had this plan;
and her part in it. (Remember, Tess is a loyal follower by nature:
give her orders, and she obeys.) The night with Max was real; the
pregnancy was a hallucination on Tess's part caused by the MW. (Max
was to believe her pregnant; easiest if Tess believed it too.) If
Max believed her pregnant, and the baby in danger, then Tess could
lead him back to A****; and maybe Michael & Isabel too. I explain
this better in my fanfic, Departure, Part 2.
Note that Tess's comment, "Your enemies aren't my enemies" could
also be taken to mean that King Max tended to make enemies, but she
didn't. I think EdR's enemies include JK, so I doubt we'll be seeing
her on this show again. Maybe if they Dallas-ed S3, fired JK and
KKB, and appologised to all the fans for not caring about them,
she'd come back (and so would the former Rosfans). Is there any
shipper group out there still happy?
And is anyone else unsettled by the advent of The Fathers As Bad
Guys?
--------------------
Roswell is not Roswell Roswell is not Roswell Roswell is not Roswell
Roswell is not Roswell
Joined: Jul 00 | Posts: 1271



Posted 11-23-2001 03:14 PM (IP Logged)
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shapeshifter
Total Fan



Hey Reg
(In case Mavonne is reading, Reggie is my devil's advocate, Tess
adovocate, Ava advocate, umm,...let's see... did I leave anyone
out?...and so he is really quite positive )
But I think it's clear that the fathers, like most fathers and
mothers of teens, don't intend to be villains, but rather feel it
their duty to try to discover how deep is the poop into which their
children have stumbled.
Someone wondered what Jeff would have remembered that he plans on
sharing with Phil. I am thinking: didn't Valenti, in his
pre-IKnowAnAlien days, show Mrs. Evans (in Toy House) the report on
the Crashdown shooting in which Max was thought to have healed Liz?
Maybe there is a bit of mental archiving on the incident with Jeff.
Or maybe when Liz Astral Projected to NYC she brought back a subway
ticket stub?
Joined: Mar 2000 | Posts: 2592



Posted 11-23-2001 03:31 PM (IP Logged)
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Nemo
Addicted Fan

quote:
Originally posted by Reggie:
...is anyone else unsettled by the advent of The Fathers As Bad
Guys?
They're like Valenti in S1 -- not really Bad Guys. It's a way of
adding some tension without bringing in more love triangles, random
aliens, etc.
Joined: Dec 99 | Posts: 1011



Posted 11-23-2001 06:13 PM (IP Logged)
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Zero
Loyal Fan


Hi all -
Here is what I sent to Shapeshifter combined with what I sent to an
e-group while the thread was down. Sorry if it is a bit negative:
quote:

Okay - here are my two cents about Interruptus - what they are
worth:
I must admit I found last night a bit boring. The wormhole was
cool, but I (sarcastically) wondered why Max didn't jump into it
in order to find his son. He's been looking for a way back to
Antar. The most interesting part to me was the little bit of
intrique caused by Mr. Evan's recruiting Mr. Parker to investigate
Max, and Liz and Maria's checking that out. It also looks like
Kyle has a bit of a crush on Iz. I also enjoyed the "boys" - Max
and Mikey G's - chatter back and forth.
Someone asked me about my observation about Max using the wormhole
if: "I don't suppose this signifies that he has given up on it in
order to pursue a life with Liz on earth?" And I said and further
wrote:
I Doubt it! I think the writers probably didn't even think about
connecting the two main storylines in this way. I get the sense
that most stuff is written in a vacuum with little done to connect
it all up. I know that all sounds a bit negative, but I've been
disappointed with the direction of most of this season. I still
have glimmers of hope - like the Mr. Evan's investigation has much
potential and I enjoyed the new introduction of Kal, plus when
they do have all the Scooby Gang together, I really get jazzed -
but
the heavy emphasis on Iz and Jesse and the search for Max's son
does nothing for me. Maybe it is the remnants of disgust with the
Tex storyline, and the
disbelief that they have done nothing with all the great potential
(like Liz's powers or the Indian connection), but I'm really
having a hard time
with enjoying the show right now. Last night my husband asked
something about who the Khivar guy was - he usually reads the
paper while the show is on - and I found myself having a hard time
(and somewhat embarrassed) explaining it all. That doesn't bode
well for the future of the show and it's ability to attract new
viewers. I also thought it strange that Khivar
wouldn't have mentioned Tess to Zan/Max when confronted with him
(if nothing else to rub it in) - unless she never made it to
Antar?? Also, when did
Mikey G start to "remember" so clearly - and why have we had no
clue up until now. And, are we to assume that the Hybrids actually
have their alien "beings" waiting to pop out, like a Sybil type of
thing? If so - why didn't Lonnie have black pupils most of the
time, or any of the Dupes for that matter? The portrayal of
Vilondra coming "out" of Iz would have been more interesting IF
prior to this we had known that there was this definite internal
struggle between the "alien" side and the "human" side to their
personality - but up to now very little in that direction, except
"Stepford Max" last year - so Vilondra with the black pupils was a
bit corny for me to accept all of a sudden. Also, why do all the
"Flashbacks" to what is supposed to be their "alien" liaisons on
Antar always have them in human form? IF they are having memories
of their prior lives, they should be in their original "alien"
form - someone must have enough creativity to come up
with something - or an explanation that their "alien" form is
close to human - and then just make them look somewhat different.
(I assume that the
Shapeshifters are a different species that are slaves or servants
to the Antarian beings - so might have a different form
completely.) Finally, since when did Human-body-possession come
with powers? Larek never showed any "powers" while possessing
Brody - nor did any of the other "possessed" humans that we have
seen. But here we have Khivar possessing a human with
lots of powers - ummm....?
You can obviously see why I'm disappointed - so many questions
with so few answers ever given - plus, a definite lack of
substantive storyline for any of the humans, much less Liz, my
favorite character. Again - the Parents' investigation of Max has
wonderful potential (and I want to re-play and read what is posted
on that board Liz found) with Liz
serving a critical role here, but again the focus would be on Max
and Liz helping him - not on Liz.
Sorry - didn't mean to make that so long!
Now that I've had an opportunity to read what others have to say - I
agree that the Parents' investigation - makes sense AND has a lot of
potential for Liz to shine in a protector sort of way. Also - Liz
did come through in Interruptus by once again preventing tragedy
with a logical conclusion and a phone call. How many people have now
been saved through her actions?? Well - I look forward to seeing
what we get next week!
I will start the new thread when we get to 250 if I'm around!
Hope everyone had a HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!
Zero
PS - Harry Potter is a blast - go see it!!
Joined: Feb 00 | Posts: 975



Posted 11-23-2001 09:42 PM (IP Logged)
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haniczka
Dedicated Fan

My post just got eaten. I spent a long time on it ~dog-gone. I'll
just say the most important thing which is I'm eating humble pie
right now - yummy after pumpkin. I thought I had this great catch
that Khivar wouldn't be on video tape and boy was I wrong. They've
got him in different lighting, different angles, and so on. It will
be a long time before this Liz Myth fan earns her RBI merit badge.
sigh.
I'm not posting anything else until I have more faith it won't be
for naught. -HH
Joined: Jan 2001 | Posts: 177



Posted 11-23-2001 09:56 PM (IP Logged)
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haniczka
Dedicated Fan

Sorry to double post, but since the last message is gone, I'll
roughly repeat some of what is now FF's Thanksgiving desert...
To agree with what others have already said, I too feel everything
connects back to Liz. I know I've been "out there" in recent posts,
even going as far as to analyze Iz's dreams about pulling away from
Khivar, but my initial suspitions were correct. Iz gravitates more
and more towards her earth-bound love and eventually that love, that
human saves her. Likewise, as we've been saying all along, Liz is
Max's salvation.
George Roswell, if you're still out there, and if you can put up
with my incoherence at this point, I believe this is the reason Ava
will never be an ideal soul-mate for Max. The Antarians had their
essence combined with human DNA for reasons other than romance. The
Dupes were of more alien DNA and had no human ties, and they were
less desireable to the ambassadors holding council in MITC.
Likewise, Kal advises Max to stay away from his alien side. The
human catharsis within Max nurtured by his human bonding to Liz is
essential for Max to succeed in this life. Liz will lead him to
redemption as human, alien and king.
Zero, I had said other things agreeing with your post. They wanted
to dramatically show Iz. change to Vilandra and back to Iz again,
but I think maybe they were on a tight budget??? And why do all
extra-terrestrials attack with the same arm gesture? First we saw it
with Whitacre the Skin, then Kal the shapeshifter did the same
arm-thing, and now Lord Khivar Antarian(?) in "Denny's" body, does
it again. Is that the only offensive attack that they know? I can
see enemies lined up on both sides of the battle field waving their
arms at each other . And the hybrids don't use that attack at
all... -HH
[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: haniczka ]
Joined: Jan 2001 | Posts: 177



Posted 11-24-2001 02:32 PM (IP Logged)
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elenac
Dedicated Fan

quote:
Originally posted by shapeshifter:
Tess being dead or abandoning Junior (leaving him for Max & Liz to
care for)
I feel the urge to propose a slight change in your storyline,
because exactly this one made me stop watching the most popular
serie here in Italy and I want to keep on watching Roswell.
My proposal is that Tess and the child come back to Roswell. The
nearest possible to immediately we discover that the child is not
Max's. Liz finds a solution to the boy's problems with the
atmosphere and Max proposes to be his step father.
Few comments on Control that I just watched.
The infamous phone call
At face value Max received the phone call the worst time possible.
But then why bother answering? Cellulars allow you to call back when
you can. So, who could Max possibly answer at that particular stage?
Michael and Iz? They could've delayed his mission and he didn't want
to. Tess or his son? Quite unlikely.
My take is that we had to get the feeling of how deeply he is
involved in finding his son. And Liz's answer to this was: I love
you but .... Just perfect, now he is warned.
Why didn't he call Liz during his journey back? He says it to Liz in
the CD. He failed in everything and he jeopardized Kal's life and
previously Liz's too, so he couldn't face all this by phoning Liz.
But then, when back in Roswell, she was the only person to whom he
could go to lessen his pain.
Max and Kal's confronting
I liked how Max lets Kal ill-treat him even in a physical way but,
when Kal tells him he is his protector and he senses his subdual,
his Majesty starts ordering him what to do and actually destroys all
he'd built in 50 years to rescue his heir. Well played.
Iz's wedding
Love how they're portraying her loneliness and how she is struggling
to gain what she wants. Hope her mother will be wrong about how long
her marriage will last but what she said made great sense.
Argh, Liz disappointed her possible future mother-in-law! I sense
problems here, big ones.
Did I say that I loved the ep? Well I'm going to re-watch it. Bye.
--------------------
elena
Joined: Mar 2001 | Posts: 169



Posted 11-24-2001 05:30 PM (IP Logged)
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Reggie
Addicted Fan

quote:
Originally posted by elenac:
Iz's wedding:
Love how they're portraying her loneliness and how she is
struggling to gain what she wants. Hope her mother will be wrong
about how long her marriage will last but what she said made great
sense.
How lonely is she going to be, married to someone who doesn't know
her except in the Biblical sense? (Even then, there's something
odd!) So much will have to be hidden from Jesse, that it will warp
their relationship to the point of making Isabel more lonely than
less. Not to mention hiding Max and his secrets from the Fathers'
investigation. No peace for Isabel.
BTW: in MitC, wasn't The Emissary a posessed human, with powers? He
candled Max's head by "hand", IIRC.
--------------------
Roswell is not Roswell Roswell is not Roswell Roswell is not Roswell
Roswell is not Roswell
Joined: Jul 00 | Posts: 1271

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