| Forums 4 Fans » Television » Roswell (1) |
| Topic Subject: Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology - Thread #56 |
| Posted 12-29-2001 07:46
PM by Zero
Welcome to the Table of Contents to the Introduction to the 56th Thread :grin: of the continuing discussion of "Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology." The Introduction became so long, Shapeshifter graciously agreed to host it on a website. Below is the Table of Contents to the Intro with links! Hopefully, this will continue to make this Thread accessible to everyone interested in Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology. The Intro includes summaries of all our past discussions through the end of Season 2, so is well worth reading if you are NEW to our thread! The Intro has only been up-dated to reflect observations, clues, discussions and theories through Departure and the end of Season 2, and it may be a while before more is added – unless we get something super significant from Season 3. (All of our observations from Seasons 1&2 added to our belief in Liz’s strength, the Hero’s Journey she is on and importance of Liz to the aliens – whether they know and appreciate it or not!) The revised Intro has a few tweaks to be made for “smiley faces” to be added, but all the “words” are there! So, HAVE FUN reading the Intro, and hopefully, it will refresh your memory about a specific topic or a specific date that causes you to think up some new theory! The links make that much easier! (THANK YOU Shapeshifter!) Major changes are “starred” for ease of reading if you don’t want to read the entire thing! There is never a dull moment on this Thread! We appreciated the refocus during the end of Season 2 on Liz’s importance to the storyline! (Thank you JK and RM! ) :grin: Even though Heart of Mine, Cry Your Name, It’s Too Late & It’s Too Bad, Baby It’s You, Off The Menu and Departure (which I collectively refer to as the “Stepford Max” Chronicles in the Intro) had many inducing scenes, we were provided tons of stuff to chat about and dissect! !! Plus – we had so many newbies joining into the discussion last summer - which was wonderful! Feedback is always welcome! :grin: Just PM me. TABLE OF CONTENTS Just a reminder - Our basic thesis is that LIZ IS AN IMPORTANT AND ESSENTIAL ELEMENT TO THE ALIEN MYTHOLOGY! What is Subject for Discussion? Liz's importance to the Pod Squad - and the survival of the human race for that matter - and theories concerning the beings - especially Max - and mysteries swirling around Liz - are what we discuss. So - feel free to join on in, or just lurk! And don't worry about going off on a tangent - they ALL tend to lead back to Liz's importance! (Especially lately!) We are an optimistic and friendly - though seriously anal retentive - group! So - dive in, and join the fun!! But remember – NO SPOILERS! We want everyone to feel welcome! Liz is Important - The Liz/Max Connection Consequence of the Connection - the Change? Origin of the Connection - Where is Liz from, really? Granolith - How does it fit in? Symbolism - WE Do Not Ignore Anything! Chariots of Fire - Liz's Necklace in VLV The "Bride" - will the real one please stand up! The Books - WHY Doesn't anyone read these things? Vision Quest - How does Liz fit in? Time Travel - "Run, Lola, Run" Grandma Claudia - the first connection? Sheila Hubble - Eerie resemblance to Liz! - What's the connection? Venus - Liz's mythical connection to the stars! Numbers - It all adds up to Liz and Max! Cave Map Symbols - All signs lead to Liz? Skins - What lies below the surface? Shapeshifters - Are there more than one? Horray!! We got a second shapeshifter with the introduction of the (evil??) Cal Langley, producer extraordinaire, in Hollywood! But is he Tic Tac?? Class is still out on that one, but Cal was in Roswell in 1959 – the year Atherton was killed, and we know that Cal is a killer – though his killing method seems to be slightly different (and more intense) than Harding’s and how Atherton was killed. Time will tell how Cal fits in, but obviously he has been “watching” for a while! Handholding - the symbol of the V constellation Dates seem to be of extreme interest to those on this thread. So, follow the link to a rundown of dates as I've been able to gather them from episodes, official sites and factual research. If you find a date I’ve missed or see one that is wrong – PM me with the change and where you got your information! I’m always looking for new dates! New ones yet to be added: Finally, (I always have to add this - if anyone from the production staff, crew or UPN reads this or the Intro), WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LIZ/MAX CONNECTION IS CRITICAL TO THE SHOW, AND THAT TOGETHER MAX AND LIZ MAKE AN INCREDIBLE FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!! Even Ron Moore stated in the commentary for Ask Not that the "Max and Liz relationship is so strong and so central to the entire series!" To have the opportunity for a Season 3 on UPN is WONDERFUL, and this show has the potential to be another “X-files” with intimate relationships IF done right! A couple of general Thread "Rules" - NO SPOILERS (even asides about spoilers are not allowed), but anything "aired" is subject to discussion, including coming attractions/preview and things on the Silverhandprint site. Pictures are welcome, as is deleted dialog from posted scripts of shows that have been aired and commentary by writers/producers. If you know what a preview “really means” due to spoilers, please DON’T tell us – let us speculate – we will find out soon enough! And discussion of the books is now okay – though you might hold some stuff back for those of us who still have to read them! Thanks! As Alex - true and loyal friend to Liz whose life ended too soon - said - "Gripa det dagen" (seize the day)! Liz found the TRUTH, and will avenge his death! (Tess – beware – you have no idea what you have released in the B*#@h!) Zero |
| Posted 12-29-2001 07:54
PM by shapeshifter
Thanks Zero! I am dragging my last post over here for RBI's to ponder. It might not seem totally Liz-centric at first glance, but this last ep totally pointed to Liz's importance. The post:
Other musings:
|
| Posted 12-29-2001 08:51
PM by Qfanny
From a Liz Mythology point of view, this sesason has really been uninspiring. I thought that the ice skating scene had very little magic in it. I do however, enjoyed the Isabel and Jesse first Xmas together, and noticed the same blooper as shapeshifter. Nemo has always been a very positive force for suggesting intention upon the discovery of bloopers. I might suggest that there is some sort of link with the multitude of time lines that have been discussed. It would be some relief for me to believe that Liz has been pulled out of real Roswell and slammed into fake Roswell. shapeshifter and zero, you two are amazing.... I wish I had more to contribute, but as it is, I'm just trying to watch anymore. |
| Posted 12-29-2001 10:18
PM by Ivy/Liz
hey everyone i'm new to the thread by not new to the Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology cause I've read over the stuff at the webside millions of times. Most of the stuff on it makes sense so good thinking fellow Liz Mythologists I got a couple theroys of my own that probably don't make sense to any one except me but oh well. just thought I'd post and see what's goin on. by an [ 12-29-2001: Message edited by: Ivy/Liz ] |
| Posted 12-29-2001 10:42
PM by shapeshifter
Ivy/Liz, Welcome! Please do post your ideas. They can't be any crazier than ours when we thought we were quite sane! |
| Posted 12-29-2001 10:58
PM by Ivy/Liz
ok here goes... I believe that Liz is an alien... not just any alien but queen of the Skins (yes i know that sounds crazy but just hear me out). Now Ava told her in MITC that she was "changed" cause of Max healing her. That "change" in her means that she is finally discovering her true self and the alien side of her is resurficing. Now up on Antar and Skathiar (which is one of the 5 planets and also where the Skins came from) Max's alien self, Zan, was King of Antar, and Liz's alien self, Ivy, was Queen of Skathiar. Kivar was causing problems between the two planets (bombings and stuff) causing Zan and Ivy to have to have a war meeting. They met up and ended up falling for eachother. Kivar bombed the place while they were both there but they got out and staged their deaths to make Kivar think they were dead. They form a connection (thus the reason for the Max/Liz connection ) and all this other stuff. I could go on and on about it, I even have a whole fan fic based on my theroy. Oh I haven't even begun to go into the Liz dupe save that for later. So do I sound crazy yet? by an |
| Posted 12-30-2001 12:17
AM by Ivy/Liz
there's something i forget to mention about my Liz being an alien theory (it kinda goes along with the True Bride theory). ya see even though the mom'ogram in Destiny told Max that his bride was the gerbil, Liz is his true bride, only she didn't say that because she didn't know that he and Liz had got involved back on the alien planets. The gerbil was only his wife until he fell in love with lady Liz and the gerbil died during the bombings of the Antarian palace. i think that's all of my theory... well probably not cause stuff usually comes to me after I post so if I think of anything else, I'll post again. by an |
| Posted 12-30-2001 08:46
AM by GraceKel
Hey Liz Mythers---Zero thanks as always for the new thread and of course for the BOLDED MESSAGE to TPTB he he!!! Welcome Ivy/Liz--everyone is welcome here, all theories, all observations you make, we respect all contributions. Hey QFanny--nice to see you on this thread again, we have missed you very much! Shapeshifter--I too noticed the keys garland on Liz's balcony---I did miss that blooper(or intentional-yet to be explained deliberate clue-LOL) about Isabel and Jessies stockings. But did you notice this one----when Isabel decides to enter the dreamworld of Samuel---several flashes occur--you must SLOW-MO to catch this--cuz they are all quick images---but it shows a mantel with stockings hung----2 very large RED STOCKINGS and 3 smaller stockings that have different colors featured on each?------------Its funny cuz this brings back the 2 and 3 or 3 and 2 that is so heavily featured--can't quite put my finger on what the symbolism means but I am sure there is some--take a look and tell me what you think. You were asking me if I had any idea why Max's messages from son had ceased? I really don't know, I am sure there is some explanation but it isn't clear to me---since the show hasn't even taken the time to share with the audience these so called visions, well I am totally lost. I forgot to mention that we have another S name SAMUEL to add LOL A few other observations, what they mean if anything don't know------on Liz's balcony when Max says "well perhaps I am healing the wrong person" --behind Max is a collection of white lights if you connect them they make a Y---Yvonne is the only Y I remember. I was also thinking about how Samuel's mother told Max that the WHITE LIGHT comforts him---and too Max seems to be comforted and guided by his own WHITE LIGHT-LIZ LOL!!! When they first show the doctors office with Max sitting in the waiting room---the camera flashes through a FISHBOWL----I also thought there was some hint, some message with the dialogue about emergency meetings, breakthroughs, changes........just don't know what---foreshadowing or something from past? Shapeshifter and what did you think the meaning was with Max showing through the window slightly wavy and Samuel being shown clear? Also a few CC's crayola crayons, which both Liz and Samuel were featured with, Max using the term crystal clear, and Liz was Candy Cane. |
| Posted 12-30-2001 08:57
AM by GraceKel
One other thing I meant to add--were the religious tones, Max's healing powers, they showed very deliberately the treetop ornament--an angel with 4 stars on it---red, gold and silvery white I think---playing again a song about the KING-the song "Noel", last year it was "O Come All Ye Faithful" in which Max is shown as they are singing "born the King of Angels" I also remember back in Convention eppy that Hubble tells Valenti--"all your father did was try to help this world out, and they HUNG HIM ON A CROSS FOR IT" Here is another with religious undertones. |
Posted 12-30-2001 12:34
PM by shapeshifter
quote:And QF, you'll have to come back and post your idea from last night's phone conversation cause I can't remember it! quote: I just shared your colored stockings observation with Shilohara on the UPN board cause she came up with this on the distorted glass camera work and I think she'll come up with something else good on the stockings: quote:
quote:GK, that line stood out to me too. Maybe the lights are a clue to who is the right person to heal?
quote:Maybe so. That line also jumped out at me. I thought maybe it was just supposed to make his autism seem more real, but maybe it has another meaning.
quote:This would fit with Shilohara's explantion (above) |
| Posted 12-30-2001 07:35
PM by Reggie
Just letting everyone know: there's a website called http://www.savethatshow.com./ They have a section to allow users to put their comments in, on Roswell. I said that the show should be saved, with revisions; including more mythology and truth-telling, and less chads. YMMV... |
| Posted 12-30-2001 08:06
PM by shapeshifter
Thanks Reggie! They also have the "Comments". But the specific Roswell link is And here's the results thus far: quote: [ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 12-30-2001 09:19
PM by jero
Thanks for the links Reggie & SS !! I voted to save it as it is. Am I ? IMHO: ANY Roswell is better than NO Roswell! (edited because the confused smiley was confused and wouldn't work ) BTW Reggie I love your sig. line !! Later, [ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: jero ] |
| Posted 12-30-2001 09:50
PM by GraceKel
Well Jason Katims can call me a crazy resistant to change fan all he wants but I can't help it if I think I have good taste---save the show????? Well during season1 I wanted this show to remain on the air like no other show, yes I thought it was SO SPECIAL, SO UNIQUE, a PERFECT BALANCE of relationships and scifi-mythology------some claim the show was too much like Dawson's Creek but I NEVER saw it that way, I thought the show had just the right blend---and added just the right amount of suspense in a realistic setting, with characters that were fully explored and developed, and I found something special in all the characters to relate to, but season2 and 3 to me have been mediocre in comparison, and I had really hoped the change over to UPN and JK's being given more artistic freedom we would return to this special show, BUT for some reason unbeknownst to me he has not done that--in fact I still think this season is more like season2 than season1--and season1 is the only season that I would recommend and drum up viewers myself to watch, so I find myself wanting to be put out of my misery at this point. The Busted Episode was okay but it certainly wasn't what I would have introduced to new viewers, as a viewer who had been attached to Max and Liz, I found myself scratching my head at their complete character changes in this episode, I can only imagine what a new viewer would think--not being attached--obviously they didn't think much cuz the ratings plunged after this. And I will also admit that I LOVED the show more through Liz Parker's perspective in season1 than through the aliens perspective all the time since, so I find myself having doubts about saving this show at this point, yes I think Roswell season1 was the BEST SHOW with GREAT POTENTIAL but it seems as though that potential will remain unfulfilled because the people in charge simply don't get it I guess. At this point you also have a cast that seems more interested in moving on as well so.......I just would like some closure with the show, I hope we at least get that. |
| Posted 12-31-2001 04:46
PM by shapeshifter
In the transcript of THATH, when the band Ivy is playing at the reception, just as Isabel is about to dance with Kvar they sing: " ...we can begin again shed our skin, let the sun shine in at the edge of the ocean we can start over again ..." How fitting. In the same ep, when Maria discovers on the morning of the wedding that Isabel doesn't have it together, Maria says to Liz that they should 'jump in with both feet' to make it happen. But then Liz says, "Or, we could let it fall apart." It will be interesting to see in the future if Liz's idea would have been best. |
| Posted 12-31-2001 07:39
PM by GreenMintIceKream
Auhh... If working with Tess was a sham... and being in love with Liz wasn't the alternative for Max... What the heck were they trying to say when they said that Max and Liz weren't suppose to be in love in season 2?!?!?! |
Posted 12-31-2001 09:52
PM by Reggie
quote: The thing was, at the beginning of S2 Liz didn't want to be "with" Max.
He had a wife, a Destiny, and no place for her. (If I knew a gal, who had
a husband, I'd NOT be romancing her!!!) But Max was beginning to
win her back... During the Alex Files story arc, Liz and Max were at odds over what happened. Since Max had been convinced that Liz didn't love him anymore, and only Tess (his wife, after all) seemed to still love him, he succumed to her charms... but still, after all Liz put him through, Max didn't love Tess like he loved Liz. Of course, this all went into the toilet, with Departure and Busted. Liz joking about Alex's murder? jero, I would NOT save this version of Roswell, as-is. This isn't what we asked UPN to save, it isn't what they ordered from Regancy Productions. It's crap; not the romantic, intriguing show we started with. UPN should take it back, for a refund or exchange. Roswell is not Roswell; and we want our Roswell back! [ 12-31-2001: Message edited by: Reggie ] |
| Posted 12-31-2001 11:25
PM by Style
Reggie, I would say "EOTW". Anyways, new year, Liz Parker, my girl! Style |
| Posted 01-01-2002 02:14
AM by jero
Reggie and all, Unfortunately, I didn't see most of the first season. I have ordered all 22 eppys on video tape (should be here later this week). I have been reading the transcripts and looking at screencaps to get an idea of what season 1 was like. I got hooked on Roswell in season 2 and so far I like season 3. So I guess season 1 is going to "blow me away" when I get to see it!!! Hopefully then I will truly understand what you mean by: I would NOT save this version of Roswell, as-is. This isn't what we asked UPN to save, it isn't what they ordered from Regancy Productions. It's crap; not the romantic, intriguing show we started with. UPN should take it back, for a refund or exchange. Roswell is not Roswell; and we want our Roswell back! I really do like your sig line.
No offense meant. None taken?? Later, [ 01-01-2002: Message edited by: jero ] |
| Posted 01-01-2002 08:22
AM by shapeshifter
jero & grumpy...er, uh, I mean Reggie I watched the new digitally remastered Snow White with my youngest daughter last week, and Grumpy is the one who really cares about Snow White the most, and right before she is visited with the poison apple, she bakes a special cake decorated with Grumpy's name. It would be nice if JK would revisit EOTW--if not with FM revealed to be the wicked queen from Snow White, at least Max & Liz meeting Serena from the future via the orbs (um where are those devices now, anyway? And the pentagon thingys?) with a message that it would have been better if they had done something slightly different, or maybe that it was (sadly) the best they could do, or SOMETHING. But I suppose if I was the creator of the story, I'd rather move on than go back. And I guess they don't want to bring in a new short blond to play Tess or Ava a la Adam Cartwright in Bonanza or Darrin in Bewitched. |
| Posted 01-01-2002 09:48
PM by shapeshifter
Post ATOTP post: Okay, this ep was a feast for RBIers. I took notes big time. First, the video that Isabel has, "Rudolph's Shiny New Year" is totally full of symbolism. There's time travel; there's someone with big ears: quote: The rave they're looking for is called "enigma" (like the leader of the CHADS thread) and the clue to the rave is: "hut ZERO twenty-four seven ZERO hike." "Zero!!!" Cool! Okay, digging deeper: over the "clue" it says: "types of chemical reactions" then there's: H2O --> LiHO3 + H2 --which I think means: water yields Lithium Hydroxide plus Hydrogen--which means nothing to me--but I found this about Lithium (which I recall is used to treat depression): quote: and then we have: something + O2 --> AGO + O3 (which I think is yielding Silver Oxide and Ozone which is like a silver handprint lost in the Ozone ). BTW, when Max & Liz kiss on the porch, there was some of the old chemistry. But I think there are 2 types of chemistry in this ep: friends & sexual, but the boundries are definitely blurred. When Kyle & Isabel are about to get in the car, the sign behind them says: Indy Racing League--which could indicate that Kyle is getting out of his league? Or this is his league because of his alien (changed) connection. Then when Kyle is flirting with the girls (when he's still in his
"jerky" mode ) a guy asks a "question from the future." Okay, moving along to the enigma quest: they go to the EOK frat (someone care to speculate on the meaning of the Greek letters?) where Max more or less does the Jesus thing again, this time turning water into wine. Oh, and with Michael he sort of raises the dead too. (Loved the line: "Michael's up." ) What's up with burning the New Year's resolutions? Does that mean they don't last? And whoah! It so did look like the re-enactment of the crash that made the aliens so sad in the Pilot that was re aired not long ago. Hmmm... Then Max & Maria are at the 24/7 place where they see the final
clue which has above it "Tex" (as in Jesse in Houston) with "The truth is
out there" right below it, and "Do you Yahoo?" next to it (which is like
the sign of Kyle's locker). edited to correct a typo and to add: I just read that Melinda Metz wtote this ep. I think she did an EXCELLENT job of getting the story lines back on track, fixing lose ends, CHADS, etc. [ 01-01-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 01-01-2002 11:01
PM by GilrozGirl
Originally posted by shapeshifter: Then Max & Maria are at the 24/7 place where they see the final clue which has above it "Tex" (as in Jesse in Houston) Now, despite the fact that I actually live in Texas, the first thing that comes to mind when I see the word "Tex" is, ahem, not Texas. Then the fake Crashdown menu has a lot more than just Blue Moon Qesadilla. I wrote them all down, but they all just seemed like alien inuendos to me, and this is a G-rated thread. I noticed that there was a real brochure for the real UFO museum in Roswell on the board! That, or they did an incredible job making a fake one for the show. But I have a few of those from visiting Roswell last summer, so I think I'm correct. I didn't even see the fake Crashdown menu, I think I was busy coughing then or something. So I suppose I missed out on the alien innuendo. I'll just have to wait for screencaps, I suppose. ~Gilroz Girl |
| Posted 01-02-2002 05:21
AM by Chad Evans
Wow. It seems this thread is still moving along. I tried writing down the formula on the chalkboard but when I looked at it on paper, it didn't appear to have a solution as it didn't make much sense. The periodic table listings for the elements have already been mentioned so I won't type them up again. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was written in a way so that it didn't make any sense and the only important points in the formula was the 24 and the "seven." I'll keep playing with it but it's been a looong time since physics class. (By the way, I love this physics stuff about as much as I love quantum mechanics and I HATE quantum mechanics.) Chad Evans p.s. The "Zero" bit in the formula has me wondering too. I know Melinda Metz has frequented FF in the past so you never know. [ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: Chad Evans ] |
| Posted 01-02-2002 04:03
PM by mezz
Ok so I just watched Departure for the first time. I have no problem with the working for Nascedo part cause if he made a deal 40 years ago then Tess would have been brought up single mindedly and N would have had to have been in leagues with the people he made a deal with - Nicholas. That means that Tess would have been helping Nicholas with the Alex thing. In pondering the Alex-mindwarp-just-for-a-transcript-that-everyone-would-have-wanted-anyway dilemma my sister said (quite impatiently because as she pointed out yet again, "It's just a story, it doesn't matter if it makes sense or not" ) that maybe there were parts of the book that they didn't want the R4 to see. Which I don't think would be the case cause they would have then spotted them while reading the transcript (except maybe those bits had already been removed ...hmmmm) so maybe Alex was made to do the translation and something else that we don't know about. |
Posted 01-02-2002 07:27
PM by shapeshifter
quote: Wow, it's been tough getting in here. Okay, since you asked, here's the rest of the "fake" menu:
|
| Posted 01-02-2002 08:09
PM by Zara
Apologies, this is a bit scattered... At first I thought the episode was a waste of my time, but the more I think about it, especially after reading Shapeshifter's post, I've changed my mind. Could we discuss the possible importance of the inter-generational theme to last night's episode? Remind me again of the significance of the older woman who gave Liz the advice about appeasing your parents because you won't have them with you forever... She was the make-up artist on "They Are Among Us," right? She inferred she and her "boyfriend" or whatever had been together for a LONG time! Who is he? Wouldn't it have been interesting to see him? Furthermore, what's her parents' story? Her story echoed Liz's and Max's. Also, we can think about the intergenerational messages as they relate to Max and his child as well. Also for the podsters and their predecessors (think momogram). It's an old theme: honor your father and mother. With an added twist: because you don't know how long you'll have them with you. With the series near end I'm back looking for some sense of it all. I know I harp on this, but I keep thinking about Sheila Hubble at the base of the stage in the Pilot. She looked so hopeful. Was she aware that a "second chance" had begun with Liz' healing? I'd like to think so. I'd like to believe that's what this whole story is about. Last night's episode's themes were second chances, honoring family, and of course, things not being what they seem (the first five minutes vs. the last five...) I started disgusted, and I came away with a sense of loving community. As I said last week, they could have stopped with this episode and been okay. One last thing: someone asked why the resolutions were burned at the Crashdown. I do have a comment on that. Many faiths have rituals involving burning things. You write your prayer (or resolution, in this case) on paper, burn it, and the flames transcend it into something beyond the physical; something carried on the wind. It's ultimately spiritual, I think. |
| Posted 01-02-2002 10:13
PM by Greda
Liz has powers, like Ava said. She is starting to devlope them. Greda |
| Posted 01-02-2002 11:08
PM by Nemo
Shapeshifter, I think the name on the frat house was Sigma Theta Kappa. I don't know if it means anything. It appears that there was a real organization by that name at a university in Oklahoma: http://www.flash.net/~picker13/about.htm (The building is the same as the mental hospital Laurie Dupree was in.) |
| Posted 01-03-2002 08:37
AM by Alexis
I’m back to myth a bit: When Max said that Liz and he would find a way to be together at midnight I was so hopeful that they would be apart and that they would both be thinking about each other and Liz would astral project to him. That would have been a great segue way to Liz's revisiting her changed state. But they dropped the ball on that one. From RATDG: “I think I found a clue.” Maria to Max Hey, shapeshifter! The above is my favorite if I do say so myself. |
| Posted 01-03-2002 08:39
AM by GraceKel
Hey Shapeshifter I meant to acknowlege earlier, thanks for responding to my last long post on Samuels Rising, and has Shilohaura come up with anything on the stockings? I was looking at those stockings again with my daughter and she said the last 3 stockings are full and the first two red stockings are empty? I wonder if that means anything? I don't know just the observation. But thanks again. As for Tale of Two Parties--hmmm Shapeshifter you said you thought that MM tied up some loose ends????? Care to explain???????LOL!!!! What exactly has become CLEARER to you? I am curious. Well as for this episode, I found it a bit unrealistic that considering they have used Jeff's parental control as an obstacle between Liz and Max all season long, that when he suddenly lifts the ban and allows them to be together with his blessing, that THIS is not treated as the MILESTONE they have finally overcome, and instead Liz stays home and sends Max off to a party without her? And also WHY with Michael being totally out of control drunk would they bring him to Liz's(do they no longer fear EXPOSURE) why not bring Michael to Michael's apartment? I found these things somewhat contrived. They seemed to be trying to hit us over the head repeatedly through this episode that Max Evans was doing something that Max Evans wouldn't do? I go back to my question from before, has Max taken on a persona that is not his????????? Michaels glowing and fire reactions reminded me of Kal Langly---because Bunny said that the man appeared to be glowing---and of course we all have seen the firestarter in action. And Maria--well what happened to funny Maria? I still think she dresses
and carries herself more like Liz these days----EXCEPT that I don't think
that Liz would have left Max drunk and alone the way Maria did with
Michael-----she is suppose to LOVE Michael even if they are broken up, she
said she loved him too much right, so how come she was not concerned for
his life? |
| Posted 01-03-2002 08:54
AM by GraceKel
Hey Alexis I just caught your post--DITTO--dropped the ball!!! A couple of observations I have made, make of them what you will, or NOT!!! In Interruptus---at beginning scene with Kyle---there is a sign clearly behind Kyle--in Crashdown--WELCOME TO EARTH---also in Behind the Music--this same sign is featured behind Liz, not as blatantly it is shown behind Jim Valenti in Tale of Two Parties the other night----hmmmm!!! As for the ZERO--well Zero only means two things to me--ZERO is our
beloved thread leader, but in the show--in ITLATTB eppy Sheriff Hansen
tells Sean you are a real ZERO!!! |
| Posted 01-03-2002 09:01
AM by GraceKel
One more thing for now--ENIGMA---in UFO CONVENTION eppy Milton tells Max in regards to Ed Hubble, the man is an ENIGMA--that was the first thing I thought of when I heard the mention of the word. |
| Posted 01-03-2002 09:09
AM by GraceKel
Sorry just one more post I forgot to mention---also for the 3 and 1 theme--for Nemo(LOL) Crashdown New Years is at 10:30 ---we have the 1 and 3 and two zeroes again. Also when Maria takes her time card out to punch it--notice the number 1 and she takes her time card out of slot 3.---Therefore the 1 and 3 again. |
| Posted 01-03-2002 01:50
PM by Alexis
Quote by GraceKel: Well as for this episode, I found it a bit unrealistic that considering they have used Jeff's parental control as an obstacle between Liz and Max all season long, that when he suddenly lifts the ban and allows them to be together with his blessing, that THIS is not treated as the MILESTONE they have finally overcome, and instead Liz stays home and sends Max off to a party without her? And also WHY with Michael being totally out of control drunk would they bring him to Liz's(do they no longer fear EXPOSURE) why not bring Michael to Michael's apartment? I found these things somewhat contrived. Both these points crossed my mind as well. I also asked myself where Nancy was, especially since it was supposed to be ‘parents’ not ‘parent.’ And I also thought of the UFO convention, E Hubble being an Enigma. Hmmmmmm…. |
| Posted 01-03-2002 05:08
PM by LisaKay
hi everyone I'm new to this thread. I found everyone's observations interesting but I won't add anything until I read over everything linked in the first post. I don't want to repeat anything. Anyway I just want to say hi. |
Posted 01-03-2002 05:15
PM by shapeshifter
quote:She hasn't commented, but when I rewatch, I'll focus on it. quote: I'm not sure either. It was late when I posted that ( ), but I'll have to rewatch that one too. |
Posted 01-03-2002 09:05
PM by jero
quote: Hi LisaKay, Nice to have another newbie here I've been trying to 'catch up' for a little over a month now Have fun reading the links!! and don't forget that they've archived almost all of the previous 55 threads Later, |
| Posted 01-03-2002 09:30
PM by GraceKel
Welcome LisaK and Jero I don't think I ever gave you a proper welcome so welcome aboard both, and Jero I am sure you are going to love season1 LOL!!!! Hey ZERO our fearless thread master where are you? |
| Posted 01-03-2002 09:56
PM by shapeshifter
Yes, welcome LisaK! GraceKel, Zero emailed me to tell y'all that she's been trying to get on the last 2 days between a busy schedule, but has been getting those *^%$# "message boards are overloaded" screens. You know I try to be positive cause there are plenty of others willing to be negative, but how is it that Liz's dad would take advice on Max from someone who was fired under questionable circumstances and is now having a midlife crisis? I guess Jeff & Jim are s'posed to be musician soulmates? :shrug: So where does this leave Phil? Anyway, I think this ep was supposed to sort of satisfy all the alternate shipper groups for a few moments, then pacify the dreamers in the end.
[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
Posted 01-04-2002 11:31
AM by jero
quote: Thanks for the welcome GraceKel!! I heard from the person making tapes for me !!! Looks like it's going to be a RosFest at my house this weekend!!! (if my family doesn't want to eat or have the house cleaned ) Is it possible to watch all 21 eppys in a weekend??? I sure hope so! I'm sooooooooo looking forward to being "blown away" by S1 Anything in particular that I should keep an eye out for? Enough rambling. Later, |
| Posted 01-04-2002 12:02
PM by Zara
Jero, Is there anything to watch for? well, some of the best tv you've ever seen... I love season 1! Can you slo-mo your vcr? Watch the alien dolls in the crashdown. (how many,
when...) Watch for Sheila Hubble! And, Yes, you can watch 21 episodes in one weekend! Even if your family requires food! Put Domino's on the speed dial for them. Fast forward through the commercials, and be sure to watch in
sequential order. It makes a big difference, of course. Also, I think
Roswell is much more fun in the middle of the night. No interruptions!
Pull an all-nighter if you can! If you can't manage this, at least be sure
you watch 285 south, River Dog, Heat Wave, Blind Date, and Sexual Healing
in the dark! Have fun! I may have to drag out the S1 tapes myself! |
| Posted 01-04-2002 06:43
PM by shapeshifter
Jero, About Season 1. Everyone raves about "Season 1," but actually the show tanked in ratings and raves after Episode 13, "Sexual Healing" (Tess arrived in the next ep, I think). So if you just want to watch and savor the first 13 this weekend, that would be my advice. |
| Posted 01-04-2002 08:33
PM by Reggie
shapeshifter: You know I try to be positive cause there are plenty of others willing to be negative, but how is it that Liz's dad would take advice on Max from someone who was fired under questionable circumstances and is now having a midlife crisis? I guess Jeff & Jim are s'posed to be musician soulmates? :shrug: So where does this leave Phil? Well, Jim was a regular customer at the CrashDown, and undoubtedly the two men had been friends (at least in a Chamber-of-Commerce way) for years. I would expect Jeff to discount the circumstances of Jim's discharge, given his long years of service. On that account, the Sheriff would have seen many teenage boys (and girls) doing stupid things. I would accept him as an expert witness, and give his advice great weight. shapeshifter: So if you just want to watch and savor the first 13 this weekend, that would be my advice. True; if you pace yourself, they won't all run together. You can savor each one more that way. Mmmmmm. jero: Well, in the Tess, Lies, & Videotape episode, one of my favorite Roswell moments: watch Tess's face when Max is "rescuing" Liz from a Fate Worse Than Death: dinner at the Hardings. (Mashed potatoes, anyone? ) This is the first time Tess has really seen Max at his best, and (though Liz is in no real danger) Max is definitely the Knight in Shining Armor. Tess visibly figures out that Liz has gotten an SOS to Max, and he's rescuing her; she winds up enjoying the show. All this, without Emilie deRavin having a line to say- it's all in her face. Well done! (Elsewhere, EdR does "creepy" well, too.) |
| Posted 01-04-2002 10:19
PM by shapeshifter
Grumpy (er, I mean Reggie ), thanks for the uplift when I was being down. I was just reading the transcript for Behind the Music when Qfanny's
observation (that I couldn't remember after we hung up the phone) jumped
out at me: |
| Posted 01-04-2002 10:41
PM by GraceKel
Shapeshifter---everyone always reminds us that the ratings weren't stellar in season1 either, I realize this, but a small but very passionate audience LOVED IT, the CRITICS also loved it--even Matt R(LOL)---and guess what---Buffy' ratings weren't out of the box off and running, neither were 7TH Heaven's one of WB's number 1 shows---but neither of these shows got REINVENTED (an SO QUICKLY too)---No they STAYED THE COURSE--had PATIENCE----if you build it they will come LOL!!!!! Patience and Promotion was what was needed--not a retooling. I sincerely believe if they had done just that---Roswell would not be on the chopping block once again but instead reaching more and more passionate viewers LOL!!!! Why were they so patient with Buffy, Seventh Heaven and not Roswell? I guess this will remain a mystery to me. Jero--actually I think every episode of season1 has a lot to offer so simply enjoy it. |
| Posted 01-04-2002 10:48
PM by GraceKel
Now onto clue finding--well I noticed they showed a swordfish at the frat party that Max, Maria and Michael attended and they carefully placed it above the head of Max in this eppy, also the word COCKTAILS--I remember seeing that in MaxInTheCity--might not be anything but just an observation. |
| Posted 01-04-2002 11:43
PM by Style
Makes me wonder if Pa Parker isn't hiding something from his past. Nevertheless, Ava did mention that Max saving a human from death may result in something, sci-fi. Style |
| Posted 01-05-2002 01:40
AM by *ReDnGrEeNmNmS*
I think it's awesome that Liz is going to adapt powers in a future eppy. Yay for her. Peace~Jordan |
Posted 01-05-2002 08:01
AM by shapeshifter
quote: 2 totally different possibilities come to mine, neither of which was likely considered by the props and camera folks:
quote:Okay, if we break this word down into its 2 parts it seems to refer to, a-hem, masculinity. |
| Posted 01-05-2002 08:38
AM by GraceKel
Well Shapeshifter those are very interesting interpretations you have got there especially the cocktails(hmmm LOL!!!) But this showing of FISH--yes along with the horses has been a long running prop---they showed a fish above Kyles head in one of the earlier episodes, a fish in Michaels apartment when that officer comes to question Max about Ferrini, Max and Phil just went fishing, Kyle and his dad--fishing etc, etc---an in MITC right as Max tells Rath I'm the man or whatever and they turn that corner they show a huge sign of FISH---and also cocktails I believe---I have no idea what it means myself--just noting that they keep revisiting the same theme or symbolism with this. I was also doing some further thinking about Michaels reaction or oversensitive reaction to Max's TOUCH at that party--and feeling like he was on fire---and maybe we should consider again the possibility that Max has that frying ability that the other shapeshifters have, although he has used the gift of healing instead---wasn't it you Shapeshifter wo said long ago that there did seem to be similarities between the silver handprint and Ed Hardings frying abilities? |
Posted 01-05-2002 10:50
AM by GilrozGirl
quote: Actually, 'Sexual Healing' was episode 16--so you've got an extra 3 episodes to watch over the weekend! I did actually enjoy the last 6 of Season 1--not 'Four Square', really, but TLV (except for the kiss, ugh), MttM, WR, and Destiny (the van scene ). Slightly different in tone from the rest of Season 1, but definitely different from Season 2. ~Gilroz Girl |
| Posted 01-05-2002 11:27
AM by Nemo
Another instance of the fish or fishing theme in the set decorations might be Grant Sorenson's room: One wall (I think) had a display of something like nets or lures -- maybe to convey a sense of hidden danger? [ 01-05-2002: Message edited by: Nemo ] |
| Posted 01-05-2002 01:25
PM by GraceKel
GilrozGirl--isn't it funny how much better FOURSQUARE looks now in comparison to some of the eppies we have been offered since--4 Square was probably my least favorite episode of season1--but even that looks better now LOL!!!! Nemo--yes you are right--I could make a list quite long of the fish references if I had a mind to but I can't work up enough enthusiam to do it LOL!!! One other thing I noticed--in the Crashdown in this past episode--the baby went from being alien back to looking like a regular baby again--hmmmm--wonder why? |
| Posted 01-05-2002 01:32
PM by GraceKel
Style as for Jeff Parker--yes I could be reaching here---but if we don't speculate about anything anymore then we might as well close the thread--there is nothing to say LOL. Anyway I could be reaching here but Jeff Parker said he had found the Rave Party once----I couldn't help but wonder if he was DRUNK and on his way home when that girl got killed in the accident? And I was thinking if Max hadn't been so called chaperoning---that Maria might have spent the evening with drunken Michael--and could have suffered the same fate? It was just a thought--hell I wish people would be willing to still guess about the story more--it was so much more fun when we did put some specs out on the line LOL!!! Hey I know this stuff could be way off but at least we have something to talk about. |
| Posted 01-05-2002 02:01
PM by Reggie
Shapeshifter (from BTM transcript: ) *MARIA: I just-- sometimes I just feel like I've paid this huge price
for knowing Michael and knowing these aliens. It's like... God, I didn't
think I'd end up here dealing with this crap every day. I mean, I love
Michael, and I do sort of love this ridiculous soap opera, but... I
just...I can't take it anymore. I feel like I'm trapped and I'm never
gonna get out. When Qfanny saw this scene she couldn't help laughing because it seemed that Maria & Liz were talking about how the actors feel about Roswell. The actors?!? The screenwriters have also mentioned "that ridiculous
flying blue jellyFISH", and a few other things. And then there's us
poor fans... R&G m&ms: We don't know this. If true, it's a spoiler, and Not Allowed here. Plus, we do know that some plotlines were killed by UPN when JK wanted to do them. It's possible that this was one of them. And of course, Liz has demonstrated some abilities before: astral projection for sure, and possibly the connection with the orb in SH. Gracekel: It may be that Michael was just over-sensitive to touch. Remember that alchohol acts as an anesthetic for humans; it may be that it has the opposite effect for Michael. He was also over-sensitive to light and sound, sooo... BTW: since when can Max levitate something? Gracekel: That's a good idea! I wonder if the writers will use it? [ 01-05-2002: Message edited by: Reggie ] |
| Posted 01-05-2002 07:06
PM by Zero
OMG!! I FINALLY GOT THROUGH! Okay - now, most everyone has covered everything about the last couple of episodes - and I have little to add. But I did enjoy "Tale of Two Parties," and loved that they brought the "make-up" lady back - a tie in to the "Among Us" connection - and the alien adversion to alcohol with Mikey G's reaction. I wondered about that after the wedding because it appeared that they were drinking champagne?? I guess it was sparkling apple cider! There were a few things - like the missing Ma Parker - that bugged me about the episode - but mostly I really thought that there was a genuine warmth between Max and Liz, and liked how all the gang played off each other! I also like the multi-generational storylines. Overall, I thought MM did an excellent job for her first episode! Now - I'm praying that this actually posts - and a white page with "boards overloaded" does not pop up! Hope all are enjoying the new year! I have wonderful feelings about 2002! Oh - and I love it when "Zero" is mentioned in any way on the show - though I'm not conceited enough to actually believe it is a connection to me or this thread! And I did vote for saving the show with changes - and you all know what I would change. Night all! And welcome all newbies! |
| Posted 01-05-2002 10:25
PM by shapeshifter
Zero! So glad you got through! GraceKel, ITA that Season 1 should have not been retooled. And Tess would have been okay for a few eps, but she should have departed in Destiny (nothing against Emilie, of course, just the character and plot line). And speaking of ol' T , over on the blue5.com board someone posted that according to a name book, the name "Tess" is short for "Quintessa." Well, according to Webster's Collegiate, "quintescence" means literally "the fifth essence." So then, I am thinking that this suggests that Liz was the true 4th essence, and Tess was just a fifth wheel. And, finally , I am not very familiar with Dickens A Tale of Two Cities (thought I think I actually read it in high school ) but since this week's ep's title is a paraody of the title of this classic literary work, I thought a bit of plot summary might be of interest here: quote: [ 01-05-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 01-06-2002 09:53
PM by GraceKel
Hey Fellow Mythers where are you? Boy this thread is moving slowly. I wonder how JERO is enjoying season1 Roswell? Geez I hope we didn't build it up too much that there will be some disappointment LOL!!! Shapeshifter ITA about the intro of Tess and being wrapped up in 6 eppies was the way to go, because I never could get past the creep factor that swept in with her and Ed Harding in TLV. Now if they had introduced her differently--then maybe I could go along with Reggie here LOL!!! Zero--I also agree with you, I like the multi-generational moments in this past episode since I think the past present and future connect in some way--they have always hinted as much. But how about some more speculation and theorizing, like we use to do. |
| Posted 01-07-2002 02:19
AM by mezz
In the books the aliens can change molecules and that gives them the power to heal or hurt. They can remake or they can tear apart. Wouldn't this automatically mean that Max can fry things like Ed? He just has a good heart not a bad one. I have never fully understood why Michael will only ever use his power for destructive means. His power is his mind and how he directs it. It makes me wonder at his mind set that he has never tried to use his power for good, not even since his change of heart. (Or has this been shown in S3 which i haven't seen yet?) Sorry, a bit off topic. |
| Posted 01-07-2002 10:53
AM by Luna G
mezz: I think it's a personality thing. My brother-in-law has a habit of shredding things sort of absent-mindedly. He'll walk down the street, pick a leaf off a tree, and tear it into little pieces. It's just a destructive tendency that's part of who he is. The same with Michael. He doesn't have to destroy with his power, but that's what comes most naturally to him. |
Posted 01-07-2002 12:00
PM by jero
quote: Awesome! Amazing! Blown Away! Stupendous! Mezmerizing! Eye Opening! Wonderful! Moving! Grand! Fabulous! Glorious! ......................Let's see, where's my Thesaurus? I'm soooooooooo happy! I understand! Roswell is not Roswell is not Roswell is not Roswell is not Roswell...... And yes, it IS all running together in my mind!!!! Now I have to 'investigate' 1 eppy at a time My only disappointment is that I was already tainted by having seen what comes after S1 Later, [ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: jero ] |
Posted 01-07-2002 12:43
PM by ~FinallyOverMax~
quote: *shrugs2* Well I'm not commenting on anything because well basically because I haven't seen the last two shows but I've been getting my cap dosis and inside scoops off ratdg Alexis and the spoilers so ... I did just wanna add a tidbit on this from SS: Water possibly a symbolic rep for "washing away the bad"...Lithium is also the primary drug used to treat bipolars which I would bet my non PHD in medicine and psychology is what Max has and is not being treated for ...and H2 being hydrogen (the first element)times two meaning a new beginning for two...
quote: Teehee...ITA!!! Hello to all newbies Well back to ... [ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: formerHEALERvictim ] |
| Posted 01-07-2002 04:08
PM by mezz
Jero I'm glad you enjoyed it so. I remember when I first got my tapes. I was like I watched each tape three times through before progressing to the next. Then I went back to the beginning and watched the season in order and then repeated that about 12 more times. Talk about feeling like all Christmases have come at once. Enjoy your repeat screenings. |
Posted 01-07-2002 05:19
PM by shapeshifter
quote: Ha Ha!! I thought so!! Thanks for the feedback on my chemistry notes; I was beginning to think no one else cared. |
Posted 01-07-2002 08:42
PM by ~FinallyOverMax~
quote: Teehee ...I ALWAYS read all your posts with must interest just sometimes I dunno what to say I'm just usually nodding my head or going AHA! !! |
| Posted 01-07-2002 09:04
PM by Zero
Jero - I'm so glad you were able to obtain Season 1 tapes to watch, and that you enjoyed them so much. They are prized items here in my house - having been watched so many times! Grace Kel - While I never liked the entire "destiny" storyline, I won't have minded the intro of Tess IF they had only written her better. She was creepy, but then she wasn't, and then she was evil... No consistency of character, and the chemistry between EdR and JB was awful! But I still felt there was a great deal of potential with the "destiny" stuff, I was willing to go with it - but then it was - well you all know! TBH - I don't know what to make of this season. It really hasn't done much for me, and there has been little to nothing to myth about. Whenever I think there might be something exciting coming up, it turns out to be smoke! What happened to Liz's flashes from the last two years? What happened to Kal? (Now there was potential!) Was that it for Khivar? (You have to be kinding!! This was the super evil Khivar we have all been worried about for so long! ) In fact, there has been no REAL villian or enemy this year. I enjoyed "Tale of Two Parties" because it was a nice holiday episode, and Liz and Max were finally together for more than a phone call or 2 seconds - and all the characters interacted a bit - but it was light weight overall (which is fine for this time of year). I guess - I just can't find a lot to myth about - and it frustrates me - because there is sooooooo much opportunity for fun, scary, interesting and intriquing storylines with this show! Okay - this is what happens when it take forever to get on the boards! 'night all - |
Posted 01-07-2002 09:23
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Or if in EOTW when Liz went to Tess to help her with Max, Liz would have shared the 'sleeping with Kyle' plot with Tess, at which point Tess would have realized that, hey, Nasedo was dust and so was any obligation on her part to carry out his 'deal,' and she really did want to trim Kyle's lamp instead of seduce a disinterested Max. But let's face it, the tragedy of EOTW was what made it great (though admittedly would send the future ratings into a downhill spiral into the Abyss of Destiny). quote:I'm afraid the guy who played Kal is too busy with his Sapranos gig to make more appearances on Roswell. Too bad. And I guess in the end Liz will just revert to being a small town girl. |
| Posted 01-07-2002 09:37
PM by Zara
I hope you guys watched Run Lola, Run this weekend! It was on Bravo Friday night, I think. Tivo is so smart he knows what I like and records it for me without my even asking! Anyway, great movie, and fun to myth again! When Lola gets her first "do over" she asks Manni if he loves her -- he says he does, and that she is the ONLY girl for him -- the one and only one he's SUPPOSED to be with. Lola looks at him and says "what if I'm not the right one?" or something to that effect. Roswell parallel. Now about Roswell: alright, if this show ends poorly and we don't get cosmic revelation (you may read that literally if you like let's just write the jlksdf; thing ourselves and finish it up properly! you know it's bad when I start beating my hands on my keyboard... Anyway, I think we have great ideas about what has happened, what needs to happen and what the ultimate story could be! Let's finish it ourselves and share it with one another! [ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: Zara ] |
| Posted 01-07-2002 09:57
PM by shapeshifter
Zara, sorry I missed Run Lola Run. I did see Shawshank Redemption (with Bill Sadler) and Superman at the same time (channel switching) while talking to relatives on the phone and doing laundry. Then I managed to watch most of Contact without too many interuptions. I just posted this at the Roswell
part of the Save That Show site: quote: Got to finish the dishes and go to sleep and get up and go to work. [ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 01-08-2002 10:32
AM by GraceKel
Jero so glad you enjoyed season1 and that you can now understand how many of us feel about it!!! Anyone want to tackle that menu---Blue Moon Q(won't even try to spell) but Maria says it doesn't even exist--hmmmm Does anyone have any idea about Jalepeno Shooters--what food would this involve? |
Posted 01-08-2002 11:08
AM by GilrozGirl
quote: Heehee...maybe I'd better let my fellow Spoiled Dreamers know... ~Gilroz Girl |
| Posted 01-08-2002 05:30
PM by GraceKel
Just passing on a message here--its from EVID--she wanted to give a big HELLO to the Liz Mythers, a former one herself, but she said she no longer watches the show because she can't take what they have done to it, still checks in on spoilers to see whats coming up but thats about it. We have lost so many mythers, Evid,Melodious,Starstruck just to name a few, its sad. Just wanted to pass on her message. |
| Posted 01-08-2002 06:58
PM by shapeshifter
GK, Thanks for passing on the greetings. I especially miss LSS who started the Sci Fi threads. But actually, I had a genuine Liz Myth moment this evening. :::hopeful smilie::: I was talking about watching Smallville since there's no Roswell, but my daughter reminded me of the other time I watched it when there was no Roswell and how gory it was. I agreed that Roswell doesn't show blood--except for Liz's in the Pilot. Then I was thinking about how she was a type of Christ--you know, "who shed his blood once for all." And I was thinking about how we had that whole Max-as-a-type-of-Christ thing going a long time ago, and that we were wrong, because it's really Liz. And that's why JK had to destroy Max--so that we could see Liz for who she really is. Well, off to watch Smallville (but I'm warning y'all--any blood & guts, and I will Never watch it again). |
Posted 01-08-2002 08:32
PM by Reggie
quote: Look at her in a different way. What would be the most memorable thing, to jog your husband's memory? Wouldn't it be his wife's embrace? Tess tries, several times, to jog Max's memory. He only gets hostile. She tries also to jog the other aliens' memories. Remember what she said, to the effect that they already knew the answers to the questions they asked? It was the truth. They knew, or at least they had known. Eventually, she stops trying to jog the podsters' memories. She uses the evidence of The Book, and the Pod Chamber, and the Mon-o-gram, to demonstrate to them all that, as Max said, "She's one of Us." But they don't accept her. She hangs around, but eventually gets disgusted. She had been saving herself for her "husband", but he wanted no part of her. She decided to put an end to this half-life. Kyle was cute, and interested... why not throw herself under him? Clearly Max wasn't interested. And then she could leave the lot of them, and Roswell. But then, Liz starts trying to fix Tess up with Max. Tess is dubious, but Liz persists... and eventually, Max turns to her. They go to the summit in NYC together; Max as King, and Tess as the closest thing he has to an alien advisor. When Max eventually turns down Nikolas's offer, Lonnie & Rath kidnap Tess. Nikolas mindwarps her, to believe: That her father has told her about The Deal. That Max is just a boy, not the King she was loyal to; and does not deserve her loyalty. That she must send someone computer-savvy (Nikolas may have specified Alex) to Las Cruces, with The Book. That as part of The Plan, she must mate with Max; she would become pregnant, and there would be complications. They would have to take the baby home to Antar, and all the podsters would have to go or be stranded. While she did mate with Max, during the Alien Mating Season, it's (IMHO) entirely possible that she did not become pregnant. Instead, it's a "hysterical pregnancy", psychosomatic; and what Max is "in touch with" is actually a figment of Tess's imagination- a figment generated as a side-effect of her hysterical pregnancy. Likewise, Tess is now in Kivar's clutches. She's in danger, but cannot consiously realize it due to the MW. Her subconsious knows the danger (Kivar's already killed her once!), and is calling for Max's help under the guise of "Junior". |
| Posted 01-08-2002 09:36
PM by Style
I know Grace Kel, quite a few have become disgusted. Besides all the shipper wars and bashings, FF was not a pleasure to view, comment, nor post. But, overall, Liz Mythers do tend to survive, maybe b/c they do not fight constantly, yes disagree, and or nor bash, in general. It's call RESPECT. The character of Liz brings this. No character nor noone is perfect. Liz is human, it is the human factor that will SAVE Antar. No forced destiny, but destiny as it could be. I always believed that the Antar's hope was for their people to learn, and to learn from humans, and we far from the "gem" of the universe, I guess we are the coal. But what a hell of a coal. Humans are not perfect nor shine always, but light out fire, and we will burn. LOL Style |
| Posted 01-08-2002 09:38
PM by *ReDnGrEeNmNmS*
Hey all. I have been to this thread a few times and I kinda like it so I may frequent it more often. Peace~Jordan |
| Posted 01-08-2002 09:40
PM by jero
I don't get to see Roswell until Saturday , and since SS mentioned that there weren't many comments on her catch of the chemistry, I'll give it a try It's been 8 years since I took chemistry Nothing that follows is meant as a criticizm, it's just me thinking out loud "types of chemical reactions" I don't remember the 'type' of reaction, but they both give off a gas
into the air. First, there has to be more to the equation on the left side, something like LiH3O3. Hydroxide is chemically written as "OH". Peroxide is H2O2. Can't remember what HO3 is, sorry, I'll keep looking. Some data from the Periodic Chart: something + O2 --> AGO + O3 (which I think is yielding Silver Oxide and Ozone which is like a silver handprint lost in the Ozone The 'something' should be AgO2, silver dioxide. I found this about Lithium (which I recall is used to treat depression) Uses of Lithium: Lithium-based greases are widely used, Lithium hydroxide is used in batteries, lithium carbonate is used to treat manic-depressive psychosis and obsessive-compulsive disorder. Are the prop people trying to tell us something???? Hahahaha Who would have ever thought that watching Roswell would make me get out my Chemistry books? Can anyone help me with the following? A screencap of Sheila Hubble (for ready reference) A screencap of the blackboard with the clue from TOTP What brand/model of VCR has a 'pause' that doesn't distort the image? or one with 'frame advance'? Later, Edited to try to get the BOLD parts right, if this doesn't work, I give up [ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: jero ] |
Posted 01-08-2002 10:52
PM by ~FinallyOverMax~
quote: This is the only one I could find here... Hope that helps !!She's soo pretty could be like her siser or something! Original donor who knows!! [ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: formerHEALERvictim ] |
| Posted 01-08-2002 11:07
PM by GraceKel
Hey Shapeshifter, yes I too remember LSS very well, I didn't post as often on scifi thread a this thread but I always read it, and I still do actually. Also SS and Jero--I didn't comment really on the chemistry equation because they totally lost me on this, it was like Greek to me I have had so little chemistry so I was hoping that someone else could figure it out--no stone left unturned here LOL!!! Reggie--of course this scenario works pretty good and actually Liz did say "they set up an innocent girl" so this could also support your theory very well, I guess we shall just have to wait and see how it plays out, but they are running out of time here, I wish they would get to it!!! Style, yes its true, I love this thread because we all tolerate our differing opinions in a very respectful way, and I love reading other people's theories because many times it makes me think of things I hadn't thought of myself, so I find it enjoyable. So nobody knows what food would be involved in jalepeno shooters? |
| Posted 01-08-2002 11:15
PM by GilrozGirl
Ack! Between school chemistry and chemistry talk here I'm getting a headache. Uh...I have nothing valuable to contribute. Except that looking at that screencap, Sheila Hubble sort of reminds me of Amy. ~Gilroz Girl |
| Posted 01-08-2002 11:22
PM by *ReDnGrEeNmNmS*
GilRoz, I like your avatar. Peace~Jordan |
| Posted 01-09-2002 12:10
AM by Luna G
GilrozGirl, I thought the same thing about the Sheila Hubble picture. Very similar to Amy. GraceKel, here's a recipe for a Jalapeno shooter. 1 shot tequila Put jalapeno in base of shot glass, fill glass with tequila, cover surface with tabasco. Then shoot it, catching the jalapeno in your mouth. Chew and enjoy. Sounds like a drink that aliens would dig on, huh? Not me, though. Too spicy. [ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: Luna G ] |
| Posted 01-09-2002 07:55
AM by Alexis
Hi MadSeason/healersbabe Glad you like RATDG. It’s fun! And sometimes it gives me insights on Liz Mything too! I stumbled onto it and I visit it every month. For those that are curious, here is the link: http://home.pacbell.net/rshryne/ratdg/episodes.htm |
| Posted 01-09-2002 09:02
AM by estherterrestrial
Hi RBIers! I always read this thread, but I don't have much to contribute these days. In my town, they don't air the episodes until the Saturday after UPN airs them, & by then, all of the tidbits/observations have been snapped up. Plus, it has been a dry season for mything, hasn't it?
quote: Reggie, I like this theory! I hope that we will see both Tess and Khivar again this season. |
| Posted 01-09-2002 03:23
PM by Zara
Warm greetings to Evid! I do miss some of the old mythers, especially Redhawk and Starbox. It's been too long! Jero, some vcrs are definitely better than others. My TiVo (not really a vcr) makes digital recordings onto a computer hard drive, so the freeze frames are perfect. It wasn't cheap, but I love it and wouldn't trade it. (Pardon the unintentional plug) Now, as to Sheila, now that you've seen her in the UFO Convention, go back and watch the Pilot again. She's in the festival scene at the base of the stage during the countdown. I LOVE that! Is she a time traveler? A shapeshifter? A CHAD? A friend of mine asked me today if she could come over Friday night and watch the Pilot. She's never seen a single minute of Roswell, but she's heard me talk about the story so much she wants to see it. I'm really looking forward to watching it again! I didn't watch the pilot when it aired this season, so I'm in for a feast. I know once I start watching I'll probably end up doing the whole of Season 1 over the course of a few days... Thanks for getting me thinking about it again, Jero! By the way, Alexis, I think I found RATDG before I found the Crashdown. It was very fun but I didn't make a habit of visiting there like I do here. I need to pop over there. They're a riot! [ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: Zara ] |
| Posted 01-09-2002 07:14
PM by Zero
Alexis - The "Alex" commentary on the quotes made me laugh! Very funny stuff! Boy - I could have a field day if I got into this! Say HI! to Evid for me too! I also miss some of the old crew - but we have a wonderful bunch that have stuck it out, even if there is little to myth about right now. A friend sent me a CD with Roswell songs - just finished listening to it - and the songs are so powerful! I can see the scenes for each of the songs in my head - and again - if you listen to the words and the connection to the scenes - there is so much potential for this show! I hope - if the show does end - that they end it well (with much thought given to how they wrap it all up)! I will always regret the lost potential if they don't! Zara - Enjoy your "Pilot" viewing! The chemistry between Liz and Max is so amazing!! Curious what your reaction is to it now? Zero |
Posted 01-09-2002 07:38
PM by shapeshifter
quote:I was in a grocery store when they played the Nellie Fertado song that she sang in the Alex files ep--I got tears in my eyes, no kidding! I think I was just sad that there might be no more Roswell. About the jalepeno shooters: the current CHADs thread has "margarita shooters" in the title. It was started Dec. 18th, which would have had to have been long after they shot that part of the ep. So maybe the CHADs based their thread title on spoilers. Or maybe it's just another one of those Roswell Coincidences (of course, like Liz says, there are no coincidences in Roswell). I suppose Reggie knows about how they picked the last CHAD thread title? And Reggie also has a screen cap maker that I think he said wasn't too expensive, but I don't recall what it's called. BTW, my $79 VCR has a pause button. It says p/s on the remote. Then if I press the + or - buttons it goes forward frame by frame. |
| Posted 01-09-2002 07:53
PM by ~FinallyOverMax~
Hey guys This is healersbabe again in the middle of a screenname identity crisis !! I made this and want to drop it off here cause I dunno why but I wanted to drop it off here !! [img] quote:
*sigh* |
Posted 01-09-2002 09:27
PM by Reggie
quote: It's hopelessly outdated by now, anyway. The technology moves so fast! But I did post a link to a page where you can order one, a loong time ago. Archivist? Can you dig that out? The CHAD thread title is a reference to a line from Farscape, a sci-fi show which has everything that Roswell had, but has since killed. It's kind of a hobby over there... |
Posted 01-09-2002 09:43
PM by jero
quote: If you're taking chem in school, help us out with the equations!!!! !!!!! SS Who then in the broadcasting industry wants to play the role of Pontius Pilate--washing his hands of Roswell as he condemns it to cancellation and renews some other drivel?
Yipppppeeeeee!!! I'm finally a member of a cult!!! ITA with you SS. Wonderful comments!!! Sock it to them!!! BTW you can vote once per day. It says p/s on the remote. Then if I press the + or - buttons it goes forward frame by frame. My VCR has a pause/still button I'll have to the manual!! Thanks *Redngreenmnms* Stop by often!! Just don't all the time!! MadSeasonAgain Thanks for the cap!! I printed it for reference Zara I'd heard of TIVO, but didn't know what it was. I'll have
to check further! ~timidly whispers~ ummmmm Reggie? How long does a mindwarp last? to all the lurkers Later, |
| Posted 01-09-2002 10:08
PM by ~FinallyOverMax~
*Redngreenmnms*& estherterrestrial and all the newbies I'm soo sorry to have been so rude and we not welcome you before !! Sometimes I think we're all just in our own little worlds when we come in here and don't actually come back to read the entire page of new stuff til after we post, atleast that was me, anyways WELCOME ABOARD! Keep posting even if you think we don't read your things I always read most of the posts sometimes just kind of take in the new theories and stuff or just space out !! Yeah mostly space out !! Alexis I dunnno if I ever did thank you but between RATDG and this thread and the Dreamer thread thats my dosis of happiness a day ...Ros been kinda depressing but now the err..ummm..."other dreamer board" etc...in that no spoiler space has me laughing my @ss of lately so I'm just coming in here to read your people's smart comments and stuff jero:"Yipppppeeeeee!!! I'm finally a member of a cult!!!
"<--I dunno if thats a good thing yet maybe its more of a RSS
Ros Secret Society but *high five* Well peace to all.
[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: MadSeasonAgain ] |
Posted 01-10-2002 02:39
PM by Reggie
quote: Well, it depends on who's doing it, the tatget(s), and how big it is. For Tess to make Nikolas see a wall and mirror up close (Wipeout), a couple of minutes was all she could do. Nikolas is strong. For Tess to make Agent Pierce see the Orbs glowing, and not see Max's rescue: 10 minutes, anyway. He was interrupted, and she was distracted. For Tess to make CW and a crowd of scientists not see Max (S&B), it was maybe 5 minutes, times 6 people: 30 person/minutes. For Tess to implant a few vague memories of boredom, and cover Mrs. DeLuca's memories of a traumatic experience (OTM/Dep): several weeks, but we don't know if she had to "touch up" the MW during that time. Also, working on memories may be easier than creating real-time halucinations. For (someone) to wipe out Alex's mind, and implant a new one, for a couple of months; then wipe that one, and re-install the old one, and have it hold for another couple of months? Orders of magnitude more work. I believe that only Nikolas could have done something that sizable. Plus, he would be onsite in Las Cruces to get the Sweden slides, do stuff with not-Leanna, etc. And of all of them, he's the most likely to actually be able to read The Book. It's logical to suppose Nikolas was in on it. We saw Tess at the end of MitC; something happened to her. Kivar had already killed Tess once, and Nikolas seemed willing to do it again (Wipeout). She had no reason to trust Kivar, enough to put herself in his reach again. I'm saying that Nikolas MWed Tess at the end of MitC, to start her on the sooo-bogus Deal she was following in Departure. He could MW her for several months easily, according to Courtney: 1000x stronger, she said. [ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: Reggie ] |
Posted 01-11-2002 09:23
PM by jero
quote: Thanks Reggie. Now I remember Tess saying that she couldn't keep up the halucination for very long. What I don't get is; are MWs supposed to be permanent??? Like you said, did she have to touch up Amy's "memories" (and all of the previous MWs)? Or would the MW eventually wear off and the person remember what actually happened? Like Alex did. And it seemed that Amy and Kyle's MWs were weakening(??) at the same time, the finger tapping thing. I'm trying to figure out if Tess MWed Liz (in TEOTW) about Future Max. Maybe Liz hasn't told Max because Tess later 'erased' the MW. If I should be asking this kind of stuff on the SciFi thread just kick me Later, |
Posted 01-11-2002 10:54
PM by GilrozGirl
quote: I know this isn't supposed to be funny...but I was just re-reading this and it sort of reminded me of those American Express commercials. "Haircut: $5. Reuniting with your long-lost twin: Priceless" You make a good point, though. ~Gilroz Girl |
| Posted 01-12-2002 02:03
AM by *ReDnGrEeNmNmS*
I feel so special being welcomed. I don't lurk anymore. I used to alot, but it got old, so I'll stop by very often. Peace~Jordan |
Posted 01-12-2002 02:39
AM by ~FinallyOverMax~
quote: Hey girl definately stop by and share your specs!!! Dont think anything is stupid enough to ask or wonder about because you'd be surprised the interstig intellectual convos that come out of one far fetched idea !! I'm actually starting to just keep my mouth shut cause I'm secretly sharing graceKel's paranoia that they'd change it just to piss us off ....but come on in and share your ideas!!!! By all means don't be shy! This is probably the best bunch of peeps on the FF ! RD |
Posted 01-12-2002 04:31
PM by Reggie
quote: No, this is as good a place as any. Probably better. Yes, I think that MWs in general are temporary. We've never seen one that lasted. I agree that both Kyle and Amy's MW were wearing off; that's what we saw in Departure. If Tess knew she was leaving soon, she wouldn't have needed to refresh their MWs. More likely, she didn't realize how fast they were "going bad". We know that Tess did have to "touch up" Alex- he complained about that (onscreen, in the flashback of Kyle's memory) just before his death. I doubt that she could have been doing that while he was in Las Cruces, though: it's a 3 hour drive, each way. That's a big point in favor of having Nikolas running Alex while he was there. Remember, Nikolas has 1000x the power of the Podsters (according to Courtney, in Wipeout). When he restored Alex I believe he intended that to be more-or-less permanent. After everyone's off-world, it doesn't matter what he remembers. As for Alex, I think that his love for Isabel was gnawing away at his
"Ray" persona; that's why Nikolas involved "not-Leanna" as a
diversion. I've plugged my fan-fics before, so I'll just refer you to them. I do elaborate more on the above in them: part of my "cleaning up the mess". |
| Posted 01-12-2002 10:31
PM by jero
Daily reminder to vote! http://www.savethatshow.com/Save_That_Show__Roswell.shtml Hey, I think this is my 100th post
quote: I agree that Tess could not have kept up Alex's MW while he decoded the book. Hmmmmmmmmmm, TEOTW opening subtitles.... I'll have to think about
that. I was just watching Blood Brother. Remember Susan, the nurse in the ER that drew blood? She looks a lot like a Crashdown waitress that was in TO2P. After the M&L balcony scene and before Liz is passing out the resolution alien heads, a waitress says "Hi" to the band and walks across the screen. What do you guys think? Did Susan lose her nursing job? Later, |
| Posted 01-13-2002 12:15
AM by Nemo
[deleted, since it wasn't a 4 on Michael's locker after all, more like a star.] [ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: Nemo ] |
Posted 01-13-2002 07:08
AM by shapeshifter
quote:jero, thanks for the reminder! Here's what I put in the "comments" field: quote:So, no Roswell this week either. I wonder if the exposition fairy is going to have to explain to us what's been going on for the last month, or if it will be like we just walked into the Crashdown after the greeis got zapped in WO? Hopefully we wont have missed Liz using her 'changed powers.' Oh well, if they really do Roswell The Movie, maybe that's where we'll get to see exactly how she's "changed." |
| Posted 01-13-2002 04:41
PM by Style
J. Frakes re movie with the original cast, probably a long shot, but I would find it interesting, at least. Hopefully, the movie will bring back, what I believe is missed, the "mythology" of Roswell. The struggle for the three (3) Antarians, but without their human counterparts, they won't make it. Again, in my opinion, the Antarian brains knew this. This comes back to Liz Parker, she is the key. Fire the coal, and it will become a diamond. Style |
| Posted 01-13-2002 07:43
PM by Zara
OT, but as I mentioned earlier, I watched the Pilot again this weekend. My friend was sick Friday night, so we canceled; instead of watching it with her I saw it this afternoon. It was SO good, and it started me thinking about when I began watching the show. The first episode of Roswell I ever saw was 285 South. I'd been struggling with insomnia and at 4:30 one morning I caught Roswell on a Fox affiliate that was running the WB in the middle of the night. (We still have no WB affiliate in my area...) Anyway, my first epi was 285 S, and I have a special fondness for it. The questionnaires, Michael and Maria in the motel, the ending sequence in Atherton's geodesic... it was completely fantastic for me! Insomnia aside, I started getting up at 4:30 to watch Roswell on Tuesday mornings. It wasn't until spring reruns that I saw the pilot and the subsequent episodes that filled in some of the blanks of the story. By the way, my 4:30 habit continued until this fall with the move to UPN; since October I've been seeing Roswell in prime-time. Gotta tell you, quality of product aside, the viewing is much better in the middle of the night! Just me and my Roswell! So my question for you all is this: were you there the very first night watching the Pilot of this new show? How did you come to Roswell? I'll move this somewhere else if you all object to the discussion or feel it might be better suited somewhere else... That said, I'd like to know what you folks have to say, since you're my Roswell community. I rarely participate in other threads. |
Posted 01-13-2002 08:40
PM by ~FinallyOverMax~
quote: How much do I hate Tess..lemme count the ways !! Ok Reggie sicen you're taking up this theory all alone I'll try to throw you some bones to see if it helps piece anything in your way so your mind can rest . How about this scenario (darnit I wish i had taped the darn things so I'd know it if flows in the continuity department )...Tess gets raped by Nicholas and somehow makes her think it was Max...*play along here pure specs*...which would explain the baby having a big azz hand by the time Max got there NOW...WHY would SHE want to turn in Max? Perhaps what they wanted from Max & the royals was for to FIND LIZ. Maybe they thought Tess was the "lay of the land" because the momogram made them divert so they'd not know where the real queen was hidden (member Brody in the gravity defying Queen jellyfish show when they said well if we find the hive we find the queen and Brody acknowledging Liz as part of the group said "NOT NECESSARILY"? I also think Agent Pierce and Whittaker WHERE FTESS shapeshifting ....just think about it watch it again and voila it actually makes sense. See how in Harvest Tess looks so nostalgically at Whittaker's picture when they go into the house as if looking at someone she knew--herself. They tell her all they ever wanted was Liz and voila wouldn't she help them turn over Liz so she coudl have Max to himself? And Max being the dum F sorry stupid King he is not realizing what was going on fell for the trap. I have now become a selfish Liz follower cause them are just stupid is as stupid does . Oh man. Ok well the shoe fits. Watch them go change it now... But that could have been a possibility....in Roswell lalala land who knows. They've already changed so much around that we were sure of CHAD heaven that tv hell is nearing . I still think the baby was Max&Liz's but for some unknown reason he decided to change it so people would think its wasn't her baby that they were looking for so it would be safe. Did that make ANY SENSE? Ok maybe its bed time for moi ... BTW VIHyour movie titles where HILARIOUS!!!
[ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: MadSeasonAgain ] |
Posted 01-13-2002 10:48
PM by Nemo
quote:I see what you mean about the resemblance, but I'm not sure if it's the same person. Anyone else? |
| Posted 01-13-2002 11:04
PM by GilrozGirl
To answer your question, Zara, about watching the Pilot (I figure I ought to say something on this thread)...I saw the show from the beginning. The funny thing is, though, I had no intentions at all of watching it. My mother did, though, and I happened to stay in the room when she put it on. I'm still not sure if it's a good thing that I did...I would be a much saner person today if I hadn't, I think! But after that--or possibly after TMA--I was hooked. ~Gilroz Girl [ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: GilrozGirl ] |
Posted 01-14-2002 11:48
AM by jero
quote: Zara, you should send this to UPN and CBS!! Save That Show will print it out and mail it for you!! BTW Roswell is the #1 vote getter on the site! Reminder to vote! Later, |
Posted 01-14-2002 01:28
PM by Reggie
quote: Well, let's see. Why turn in Max? To "find" Liz? Rath was kissing Liz... I think that's close enough, don't you think? As for the Generium Queen not being with the colony- well, it wasn't, was it? I think Larek probably knew about it having to infect someone, so the queen not being with the colony would make perfect sense. FTess wandering around? How would she get here? FMax took The Granolyth, alone; and FTess was missing (presumed dead) by then. To stow away, she'd have to be close enough to know that he was leaving in The Granolyth, and when. But since Max didn't take the physical Granolyth with him (Liz was still there afterwards, remember), Tess could only have gone to one place: Liz's balcony! As for Tess looking at CW's photo, I think she was trying to get a "flash" from it; to get more info. After all, that's why they were in Copper Summit! How in the world could the baby in Tess possibly be Liz's? You'd have to make Liz an egg donor, and Tess a surrogate mother; which takes more than a little medical (endocrine and gynocological) tinkering. This is something beyond the abilities and equipment of the Podsters, not to mention the likelihood of its being noticed. Yes, you should probably get some rest. |
| Posted 01-14-2002 07:41
PM by Zero
Hi All! Zara - I watched the pilot out of curiousity, and was hooked from the moment Max touched Liz's hair to "fix" it at the end! I was (and still am) hooked on "Felicity," so must have seen the coming attractions for the new season. I also had loved "Relativity" which JK had created for ABC - but had been cancelled after being moved all over the place after starting out on Saturday night - a dreadful night unless you are stuck home with little kids - as I was. I never saw "My So Called Life" - don't care for Clare Danes - but I understood it was really well written - so figured "Roswell" would be too! I fell in love with Roswell, and adored the Liz character - I always like smart girls! I also liked how the sci fi was interweaved with the relationships. Unlike the network, I felt the "balance" between the two was wonderful most of Season 1. I also saw SO MUCH potential with this show from day one. The whole Hero Journey element struck a cord with me and made me want to watch what was going to come next! With Relativity and Felicity I had discovered the fun of the "boards" to discuss shows - and that is how I found my way here - since there was so much about this show I wanted to chat about. And my simple question - re: Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology - took on a life of its own, and created a wonderful group of on-line friends. While I'm not as "hooked" anymore on Roswell - and very disappointed about the lost potential that was never realized, and probably never will be - I will always have wonderful memories of this show and the people I've met because of it! And if there is a movie - as is rumored - I will go and hope for the best. On the spoiler board - which I have tried to stay away from this season, though it is hard - I guess I would be called a Polyanna - though my disappointment with this Season (much less much of Season 2) would probably make me something else! Hope everyone has a fantastic week! And welcome to the lurkers coming out to say "hi"! Zero |
| Posted 01-14-2002 08:50
PM by Tasyfa
Venturing in to say hello! I know I haven't been in a couple of months Actually, I haven't been on the boards much at all, not jsut here I have only read this thread, so missed most of the SR discussion, but wanted to add something--sorry if someone mentioned it. I think it's sort of related to what Shilohaura said (can't recall who dragged her post over here). Samuel's dad told Max about the only other time that Samuel had spoken, saying "Baskin Robbins." We know from Samuel's mom that he's an ice cream freak It occured to me that when he said that, he was prolly asking for ice cream--as in, that was his way of saying that he wanted ice cream. Which his parents obviously listened to, since his mom said that he had some nearly every day. So I was thinking that Samuel wasn't calling Max "Daddy"; he was asking Max to get him his daddy. B/c as most of you pointed out, somehow he recognized Max as being different--as being someone that could help him, as his parents helped get him the ice cream. Make sense to anyone else? Another thing is that the last time I was here we were talking about Isabel's dream in TH&TH. A friend of mine made a bunch of screencaps of her notes, but I don't have an account to upload them anywhere. Do y'all still want to see them? Or just drop it? ITA that there's not a lot to myth about these days I didn't expect much from the holiday eps, being well, holiday eps Hopefully once the eps begin again there'll be a little more ss Love your notes on the Save that show comments! Reggie I'm with you--I think something happened to Tess in NYC.
Her character is actually on a fairly straight line development wise until
then, and then she was all over the place (WO excluded, where she was
freaking me out ). I am still kind of pissed about Departure |
| Posted 01-14-2002 09:05
PM by shapeshifter
MadSeason, quote:I realize Reggie's point is correct, but your theory here really rings true for me. Along the same lines of double entendres, I thought of Nemo's reversed handprint theories when I read this: quote:"Serena Bar?" Could we HAVE a greater coincidence in the alternate universe? Zero, definitely the thread, the show, all things Roswell have a life of their own. Goodness, when it gets cancelled, what cataclismatic events might be triggered? Zara, I watched because one of my students was an X-files true believer, and I thought from the coming attractions for season 1 of Roswell that this was a show we could share (I don't like a lot of violence and occult, which X-files has become). So the first 2 eps I flipped between Roswell and West Wing. After that it was Roswell and nothing but Roswell so help me Roswell. 285S was pure gold. No wonder you're hooked. |
Posted 01-14-2002 09:26
PM by ~FinallyOverMax~
quote: Hmmm, wow, now THAT rings a bell Well sorry Reggie I tried ! |
| Posted 01-14-2002 09:35
PM by shapeshifter
madseason, let's hope not! All, Go to: http://upn.com/shows/roswell/rosmain.html and click on the silver handprint, then on "beings" to read about Liz. |
| Posted 01-14-2002 09:48
PM by Tasyfa
ss Wow, they've really added to the site there! I haven't been in a while. Hmm, how interesting that when you click on Beings, the bio for Liz comes up automatically, with a list of the other characters. Looks like UPN think she's important, too! hugs, Tas |
| Posted 01-15-2002 05:42
AM by mezz
Zara- Well I don't watch at 4:30 am but Roswell over here is mostly on at midnight or around that time. Whatever time is fine with me. I think it was only shown prime time for three eps which I didn't see. I first saw some of 285S while channel hopping while avoiding going to bed. I didn't see all of it just the end when they are all scared and Jim gets wacked on the head. The music in that ep is excellent. Still gives me the chills. So I thought I'd have to keep watching but I think the next ep I saw was Blind date and I got hooked by Max watching Liz through the window of the resturant. And in spite of some confusion at times I still reckon it's one of the best shows we see. It's a shame so many people don't seem to get it and keep wanting to change the core of it. Go figure. |
Posted 01-15-2002 11:58
AM by jero
quote: I would never have thought of that Later, |
| Posted 01-15-2002 06:49
PM by shapeshifter
This really is good news (and it has nothing to do with anyone getting married ): quote:I would like to think that the savethatshow.com posts and emails to upn sponsors etc. had an impact. Okay, now back to our regularly scheduled discussion. ... Was I the only one who wasn't convinced when Max assured Liz that she had nothing to worry about if his son and (horror of horrors) ex-wife return? |
| Posted 01-15-2002 07:27
PM by haniczka
Hi all Sorry it's been so long. Shapeshifter, last week, our UPN network said "Roswell will return in February" so I think it's still gonna be a couple weeks... I have to say that mediocre Season 3 Roswell has been much better than no Roswell at all. Thank you, THANK YOU for the good news about seven more episodes and a two hour finale. HOOO-HAAA! -And in response to your comment, SS, I found it unnerving how much Max needed to feel needed by Sam and his mother. Tasyfa, what about his posing with Santa as the father figure for the photograph? I realize you are correct and Sam is requesting his own father, but Max was clearly a stand-in. Also, if Sam is making requests to Max, what do you make of him giving Max the drawing of the UFO??? It makes me wonder if he was asking Max for something then? But back to the original question, I was not reassured by Max's words to Liz, since he once told her he wasn't going to worry about his son anymore... Max always knows just what to say, but unfortunately ever since he hung out with Tess for awhile, he's been deluding himself, or plain deluded. But Liz sees clearly. She sees he loves her and decides that's enough for now. That's what I got from that scene. Zara, I never heard that Sheila Hubble appears in Season 1, at
the festival(???). I have to check that one out! AND I have to tell you
that I practically never watch television at all. But one day I was in the
mood, so I turned it on, and there was Max saying to Liz (in Heat Wave)
"things may be about to change" and then he began kissing her. I knew
nothing about them, but let me tell you, [ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: haniczka ] |
| Posted 01-15-2002 10:47
PM by jero
SS ZARA The first time that I saw the Pilot was a few weeks ago when UPN aired it. I was watching something else on Wednesdays during the 1st season. And for the life of me I can't remember what it was I caught some of S1 on reruns but usually only the 2nd half of the show. That was still enough to make me want to see season 2. I started taping Roswell in season 3. It's on Saturday here on the WB (Hahaha!!!) Which is also the channel that shows St. Louis Blues hockey, so the station kept rearranging the Saturday schedule to accomodate hockey, Buffy, Roswell, and Enterprise. I couldn't always sit down for 3 hours on Saturday afternoon so I set Guide-Plus to record all 3 shows. Well the day that Control aired, I wasn't home to check on the VCR and when I got home I cried That's when I truly realized how much Roswell meant to me. I pouted for days. Then I decided to look for a transcript on the Internet and I found Crashdown.com and FanForum. I've been here every day since then. I still haven't seen Control. Even if I never see it, I'm glad that my VCR screwed up that day!!! OK enough of that!
Later, |
Posted 01-15-2002 10:48
PM by GilrozGirl
quote: Ah...if only watching Season 1 episodes was a requirement for 11th grade chemistry. ~Gilroz Girl |
| Posted 01-16-2002 08:00
AM by haniczka
Hang in there Gilroz Girl. I totally sympathize. I passed AP chemistry by coloring really artistic visual aids! Jero, I confess I missed "Two Parties." I just didn't think Roswell would be on New Year's Day after the Christmas special, (and we had tons of family stuff was going on). The only other episode I've EVER missed was End of the World. But patience (a full year's worth) finally brought it back, and I suppose both "Control" and "Two Parties" will air again someday, somehow, somewhere, for those who wait... -HH |
Posted 01-16-2002 01:40
PM by Reggie
quote: Re: the "news"- Best, unspoiled guess? We finally find a saucer that works, and send Max "home". Then Liz and an unattatched Michael can finally get together. Yes, shapeshifter, I don't believe Max for a minute when he says Liz has "nothing to fear." |
| Posted 01-16-2002 08:27
PM by shapeshifter
Reggie, you are just being a little sarcastic...I hope? Liz & Rath? (I mean Michael)??? Well, it would certainly be a twist. And I have to admit it would fit with the character development. Can they go off to college together? And can I time travel to Antar, becoming younger and prettier, and (with my motherly expertise) be stepmom to his kid and bride to the royal hunk? jero, I too came here looking for transcripts. Gotta go now--daughter needs puter. |
| Posted 01-16-2002 10:46
PM by pieface
coming out of lurkdom with a broken finger....... Zara I saw an ad for Roswell on the side of a bus. Spaceships/aliens/Roswell...well, let's just say, sign me up. I watched and taped the 1st ep. Then I accidently taped over that with the 2nd ep and have never ever taped over an ep accidently since then. Watching the connection scene with Max & Liz and then the end with "hair thing" and the "thank you". I managed to buy a tape of the first 8 eps from Karioke Man. I'm so glad they reaired the Pilot. I was a total gonner for all things Roswell. I even brought a necklace (just like Shapeshifter) I found the FFBoard by looking for La Femme Nikita stuff one Saturday afternoon and just decided to see what I would find for Roswell. Then well, all roads lead to here.... |
| Posted 01-17-2002 11:08
AM by jero
Vote once a day, EVERY day!!! http://www.savethatshow.com/Save_That_Show__Roswell.shtml Later, |
| Posted 01-17-2002 08:29
PM by shapeshifter
Pie!! You're still with us! I haven't worn my necklace in...can it be years??? Well I hearby promise to wear it to work next Tuesday (at a college library). jero, over at FF2 they say to also post a few paragraphs in support of Roswell here: http://savethatshow.com/Save_That_Show__Something_To_Say_to_UPN.shtml Over at blu5.com they are theorizing that Topolsky was mind warped by Tess. That might just fit. Remember Liz didn't trust her, but later did? Maybe Liz trusted Topolsky when she had broken out of the warp only? |
| Posted 01-17-2002 08:35
PM by cutecms
With out LIz Roswell would be missing something! No i lie , it would be missing every thing! |
Posted 01-17-2002 10:11
PM by jero
quote: What do your necklaces look like? I was going to try to make one like Iz found at Atherton's, but haven't decided on what material to use.
quote: I've sent a couple of comments that way. Back on page 5, I encouraged Zara to use that link to tell UPN and CBS about her 4:30 am addiction.
quote: I guess it's possible. (Unless there are subtitles ) I think that Liz sensed that Topolsky was truly afraid for her life. Later, |
| Posted 01-17-2002 10:37
PM by mezz
I don't know if I should put this here. Apologies in advance if I am wrong. I just was listening to the song Trouble by Coldplay that was played in Departure. The words are interesting... Oh no, I see Oh no, what's this? I never meant to cause you trouble Oh no I see Singing, I never meant to cause you trouble... they spun a web for me So what has this to do with anything? Well I was intrigued at the fact that the song began before Tess's scheming was fully revealed and so we were given a clue from the music which hasn't happened for a while. Also the words relate so well to Max's feelings for Liz at the time. (As well as his feelings for the whole group as well) It also ends with 'they spun a web for me' and it made me think that this was us being prepared for S3. Once caught.... Max thinks he is coming free but is he? And who else has spun the web? And who else is caught? Is it just the aliens or does it refer to the humans as well? How big is this web? So I know I haven't shed any light on any great questions but I thought it was cool |
| Posted 01-17-2002 11:17
PM by pieface
Shapeshifter Yep, I'm still here just hanging out looking for my now you just knew I was going to say that SS, I'm going to get my necklace out again too and start wearing it on Tuesdays Maybe our positive thinking will help the show! You know I don't remember Tess being around when Topolski was there. How bad is that. Looks like I'm going to watch some season 1 eps tonight. jero Our necklaces are the same as the one Isabel found at Atherton's. They are probably still for sale on one of the Roswell merchandise websites. I also have a keychain and a bumper sticker that says "Destiny awaits Roswell on the WB" guess we know what happened there... pie who lurks a lot |
Posted 01-18-2002 02:25
AM by ~FinallyOverMax~
quote: That makes sense . I still think then Agent Pierce was FTess... Yes I did my good deed of the day ... IMAGE: savethatshow.com/sts13.gif I might even go vote again tomorrow ...::healersbabe thinks she's being mindwarped by Hope:: WELCOME CUTECMS
[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: MadSeasonAgain ] |
Posted 01-18-2002 11:27
AM by jero
quote: Mezz Great minds think alike The radio station I listen to has been playing this song a LOT lately. I always think of it as Max singing to Liz. Another 'apology' for messing up her life. I see it as only Max being caught in the web spun by Tess, Nacedo, and Kivar. He feels trapped by them and his morals, get a girl pregnant and do the right thing.... It's one of the best matches of music/lyrics to the events. Pieface thanks, I'm off to look for Roswell merchandise sites cutecms Welcome to the thread!! It's very friendly in here. Be sure to let us in on your theories and observations. Gotta go vote Later, |
| Posted 01-18-2002 11:11
PM by jero
Me again. I'm sitting here watching "Crazy" and (since I missed the first round of discussion on this eppy) I'm wondering what significance do you give to the height difference of the characters/actors. It has always struck me that Max/Michael/Iz (especially Iz) are tall. If you're gonna design a body go for the best attributes, right? So why is Tess so much shorter? Shouldn't she be tall like the rest of them? Is it to show that she's different in some way? We learn later that the human DNA donors have to have a certain rare genetic defect. Did the Antarians just give up looking for another tall female donor? Anyone 'know' if there were many 6 foot women prior to 1947? I haven't heard how Emilie got picked for the role. Were they looking for someone Liz's height? Later, |
Posted 01-19-2002 03:38
PM by Reggie
quote: Well, if you've seen Beastmaster, EdR played Curopira, a character that was good, but ambiguously so; she had her own agenda. And Curopira was pretty creepy, also a plus for her, on Roswell at that time. |
Posted 01-20-2002 08:16
AM by shapeshifter
quote:jero, we discussed this in the past (of course! ). If you go to the Discussion Archives and use the Pico search engine, you can search key words to pull up the Internet address of the archived thread where the word is mentioned. The really great thing about the Pico search engine is that the search results show the word in the phrase where it was used so you know if the discussion was about your subject. Sorry, I'm not explaining this very well, but if you try it, you'll appreciate it. For instance, a search for "height" brings up a bunch of threads, and
the first one happens to be the right one for your question (but the
others are about other discussions involving "height"). quote: and a search for "blue eyes" (change the option to "search EXACT phrase" on the drop-down menu next to the "search" button before you click it) this brings up from The SciFi of So47: quote: Another poster told me EdR had an "in" to get the part, but I don't know if that is true. You might check the EdR board or the Ros2 Board. But yeah, I think the fact that she & Shiri are both short while the others are taller could be significant to the Importance Of Liz . There's a theory (mine maybe? don't remember) that Liz is a descendant of Tess's human clone donor, and that's why Max was attracted to her. [ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 01-21-2002 09:42
PM by jero
Thanks SS I don't know why I don't search the Archives before posting..~smacks self on forehead~ NEW POLL Your attention please....... The weekly poll at SciFi.com involves Roswell. This was posted at
Crashdown.com
The X-Files won't be back, but other SF series remain "on the bubble" for renewal for next year. Which one do you think most deserves to return? Roswell Vote here (poll is on right side): Later, |
| Posted 01-22-2002 11:50
AM by GraceKel
Thanks to LunaG for the ingredients to Jalepeno Shooter, I appreciate that, first time I posted since I asked, which is why it has taken so long to thank you. Zero--you must be disappointed, I heard that Felicity is all done after this season, isn't that your fav show, I will recommend another show, ALIAS--it has a great back story, its smart, suspenseful, the characters are slowly but surely being developed, of course I don't love it as much as I loved SEASON1 Roswell--but Roswell is not the same anymore, so I would recommend a look. Well I know Roswell could end this season or it might go on but assuming it will end for now, and since nobody likes my Liz is originally a podster or descendant of one, I have been racking my brain for the answer---since the story has in no way touched on a possible human connection as of YET---the only thing I could come up with is going back to Riverdog eppy. Riverdog tells Max he once knew a man just like him, he befriended me and everyone else on this reservation---------did this Nasedo get close to a native american woman, fall in love with her?????? Is this the LIZ CONNECTION-is this why Liz wears native american jewelry? Another thing I had missed--during How The Other Half Lives---Maria tells Michael that Bobby and Meridith are EVIL----and Michael says yeah SHALLOW, SHALLOW---hmmm I missed that one----it made me think of the least deep guy in America????? and or Doug Shallow? who is really Doug Shellow I know. Also many questionable things happened during Max In the City eppy,
when Max was so called tested to see if he had the mark stenciled on his
brain----are we sure it wasn't REMOVED from him???? LOL If you listen to
that song playing while this is happening---That there, thats not me, in a
little while, I'll be gone!!!Things that make you go hmmmmm--------two
episodes later, Liz says "Here is a galaxy sub hold the Max"------for some
reason I always come back to that line--I think it could be significant!
Two minutes later Sean Deluca walks through that door and Liz looks at him
like she always had looked at Max----could Sean be the galaxy sub holding
Max's essence-LOL? I have another question about the book--with the Royal Four's pics in them----if Max were the King why is Michael's pic shown first? The order is Michael and Isabel, then Tess, and Max------wouldn't the King be shown on the top, the first one? |
| Posted 01-22-2002 02:54
PM by StephStephSteph
Hi RBI! Been WAY too long since I've been over here and don't have anything important to write. Looking forward to the next few eppy's though. A little birdy tells me that we Liz Myth'ers will have some GOOD things to discuss! Sounds good to me! |
| Posted 01-22-2002 06:45
PM by Zero
Grace Kel - Yep - sounds like this might be the last season for Felicity! Though there is always hope - if Glory Days doesn't do well. I have them all on tape, and will always appreciate the show, which has had it's ups and down, but overall, been excellent. I just wish Felicity and Noel would finally get together, but ... Actually, I have been watching Alias since day one (I adore Jennifer Garner, Scott Foley's real life wife, and ex-first girlfriend on Felicity), and unlike Roswell, my husband loves Alias, too - and it is SOOOOO well written! I'm not taping it, but we don't miss it. I'm also an X-files and Once and Again fan - and they all seem to be going "bye-bye"! I may have more evenings free soon! Steph - that little bird told me the same thing - so, I'm truly looking forward to the new episodes! Hope everyone is doing well, and enjoyed a three-day weekend! When is the next "new" episode, anyway?? Zero |
| Posted 01-22-2002 07:43
PM by Reggie
Umm. Same bird- the one with the bright eyes, yes? - told me some things that made me want to barf. Not looking forward to the next few. Hey, StephStephSteph! Long time, no see. |
| Posted 01-22-2002 10:46
PM by shapeshifter
GraceKel, love the ripped-off brain stencil theory. And I am all but convinced that Doug Shallow was Kal (sure looked like him leaving the toasted bit-part actor in Secrets & Lies.) Hey Zero, let's hope there are better days a-coming. |
| Posted 01-23-2002 11:48
AM by kla
GraceKel -- love your ideas about "everything." Especially the brain stencil and Sean "holding" Max idea. Any theories about why they have chosen to not even mention Sean's absence? He was such a big part of several eps and then they can't even have someone ask Maria how he's doing since he... moved? Went off to school? Got thrown is jail for probation violations? or mention "how sad that he got hit by a truck last summer"... Okay bad example! Just seems really strange that characters are brought in and treated like they are important and then they just disappear without explanation. Makes you wonder if any of the characters are important, or if anything we've been lead to believe is true. Like maybe Iz is really the Queen of Antar, Michael was betrothed to her and would have become King, and Max was really her low-life brother that ran off with a peasant girl named Tess and ruined the family name... which led to the downfall of everything. Oh, I'm not serious here, but it does make you wonder if we can believe anything, since the powers that be are in control and even when they give us hints, they may be just toying with us. That's why I say Roswell has so much potential that's being wasted. There are lots of scenarios if they would just wise up and stop following the ones that none of the fans like. Sorry, just venting again. |
Posted 01-23-2002 12:55
PM by StephStephSteph
quote: Hi Reggie |
Posted 01-23-2002 01:37
PM by Zero
quote: kla - couldn't agree with you more! I bolded - or have tried twice now - the part that made me laugh!! Not only has Sean disappeared, but so has Amy - though we have had her mentioned a bit. Reggie - I don't know much, but just a little, so I will have to wait to see if I agree with your dread or not - right now, I'm looking hopefully forward to them! Right Shapeshifter - there is always hope (even if it is misguided a bit )! Cheers! [ 01-23-2002: Message edited by: Zero ] [ 01-23-2002: Message edited by: Zero ] |
| Posted 01-23-2002 04:20
PM by GraceKel
kla---I understand your frustration completely if you have read this thread and past myth threads I have been quite VOCAL about my frustration as well, but quite frankly I don't think I could watch--if I didn't myth--or try to unravel the puzzle---its the only enjoyment I'm STILL GETTING LOL!!!! God knows the actual storylines aren't entertaining me anymore LOL--not like early Roswell thats for sure--but I figure since I have chosen to stick with it til season's end I try to make the journey less painful by trying to figure out the mystery--try to figure out what they are really trying to tell me LOL---if anything==LOL but of course I will be disappointed as any Roswell fan will be if it was all pointless all along==just right now I still hope something will make sense in the end---it helps me to make the journey a bit more interesting and less frustrating from week to week. As for no Amy, or Sean--well Amy is on another show I guess and I think Sean had other commitments as well LOL---but of course I agree, a small mention certainly should have been do-able!!!!! I don't know what the problem is there, someone plans out a big arc---but they are very SLOPPY with DETAILS---not good for a scifi show---scifi fans pay close attention to details. Shapeshifter I am glad you like my stolen stencil theory----I would like to hear a few of your own---I would like to hear anyone's theories but nobody is posting any---LOL---come on guys it use to be fun, remember? Its okay if we are wrong, nobody is going give you a zero and hold you over for detention--LOL!!!! |
| Posted 01-23-2002 04:37
PM by Zara
Just wanted to say hello to you all! I've been away on business for about a week to Charleston and had extremely limited internet access, so I'm just now getting caught up. Good news about the remaining season episodes; let's hope they do something of merit with them! Enjoyed all your comments about how you first found Roswell. Thanks for sharing your stories with all of us. |
| Posted 01-23-2002 08:18
PM by shapeshifter
GraceKel, maybe I'll have something new after the next ep or 2. But thinking some more about your Stolen Brain Stencil Theory: It could free Max to really be with Liz or whatever (be a 'normal' guy) and be symbolic of becoming an adult (as being an alien is symbolic of teen alienation). Yeah, he'd still be an alien, but adults are alienated too, in a different way. Now I'm remembering when Kal gave Max the phone & when Michael thought S1 RD and then Nacedo was his father. Kal giving Max anything he asked for is symbolic of the parent giving to the child, unable to say no, even when the parent is mad at the child. Okay, enough of my drivel: the promo for the new ep is here: http://www.upn.com/shows/roswell/vrosa/rosaqt.html [ 01-23-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 01-24-2002 10:01
PM by Shilohaura
Just a thought - Small trivia matter....When Nesado and Tess first showed up, it was mentioned that Tess' mother's name was Sheila. Of course, T/N had this cover story going, but wasn't Hubble's wife's name Sheila? Could she have been Tess' human DNA donor? If she was created later than the others, it would explain why she "hatched" later than they did. Hubble's wife was pregnant when she was killed - for the embryo? Was the original "wife" dead or destroyed? I've often wondered if Liz' mother was and "abduction" victim. She seems very neurotic. Could Sheila's embryo have been altered and placed inside Mrs. Parker by Nesado or Kal for safe keeping? Being born as Liz? Was Tess just a "space holder" planted to keep the suspicions away from the real queen and thus ensuring the eventual continuance of the Royal line? Was that why Max was attracted to her from the beginning (and she HAD noticed him, too, according to the Pilot.)? Could Tess' alien donor have been Nesado himself - making him her real father and explaining why he was there when she "hatched" and not for the others? Kal was obviously the R4's protector - not Nesado as he claimed. So many possibilities and I'm too tired to think any of them through with clarity! I just find it interesting that part of Nesado's cover story was that his wife's, and Tess' "mother's", name was Sheila, Sheila Hubble was killed by an alien (presumably Nesado), and Hubble was hell-bent on finding the aliens. Question - was Mr. Hubble really the father of Sheila Hubble's baby? If a shapeshifter.........Don't forget, Nesado "diddled" with Whitaker as Pierce all summer & she apparently didn't realize it! At least not until he returned to Roswell! Just some interesting thoughts. And we always look for the alien connection to Liz. What about the HUMAN connection to Max? Michael found his human "family". Max' and Isabel's is still unknow, as is Tess' (unless it was Sheila Hubble). I think it's quite possible there is a link between the human sides of Max/Liz/Isabel/Michael that isn't being recognized or explored yet. Like perhaps Max' human donor had been madly in love with one of Liz' ancestors. Nesado told them their "alieness" simply amplified their "humaness". Could it be the genetic memory factor on Max' human side was much sharper due to his alien essence and was attracted to the human DNA within Liz that was handed down from his donor's "soulmate"? I feel we often overlook the human sides of our aliens. They ARE just as much human as alien for all we know. Subject to faults and bad decisions, as well as blessed with emotions and the 5 senses (as Kal pointed out). All amplified by the alien essence. Maybe they just didn't turn out like their engineers planned them to be - a desparate experiment that resulted in them adapting more toward their human sides than alien - alien didn't come natural as planned. Except for Tess, who may have been engineered later. If Tess is truly the essence of Max' former wife, I believe she was Kivar's sister - a marriage for political reasons. It could explain why she was different than the others - a different race of people. Could also explain why she didn't develop and "hatch" at the same rate as they did. And I believe Tess' and Ava's pods were switched, which would explain why Ava was so much more like the Roswell 3 & Tess more devious like the Dupes. It would also explain why, if Kal was truly the Roswell group's protector & Nesado the Dupes protector, Nesado was with Tess - using her to lure in the Royals. Ava stated that she & Zan were never very close & he always seemed to be looking for someone else. This could be the case in a political marriage - even if the bride truly loved her husband. But Ava seemed to be more accepting of that, like Michael and Isabel are. Lonnie & Rath were "horn dogs" after each other, following the relationships of their predicessors. But as Michael & Iz, they have a totally different relationship. Ava would have accepted this with Max, too. Tess was determined to become a "couple" w/Max like Rath & Lonnie were. Tess was more refined than Rath & Lonnie, but that could be because she was raised by Nesado instead of on the streets of NYC. Lonnie told Max & Tess that their protector basically dumped them in the sewers & left. I think the Dupes were created to appear more alien to draw any enemy attention & suspicion their way instead of toward the Roswellians. Nicholas even indicated this. Added protection. Whether Nesado really planned to betray them or just wanted to make sure they all got together and went home to help Antar, I think he needed Tess instead of Ava because he would have to OBEY Ava (or any of the R4 as Kal did), but not Tess since she was a Dupe - he could control her! Even though S3 & Kal hadn't been written yet, this was demonstrated by Nesado when he was giving Max a hard time about being a "Pacifist King". Max finally said matter-of-factly that they would kill no one & Nesado backed down and said something like "As you wish". He could not disobey the R4, just like Kal, only Max didn't realize it yet! He didn't realize it until he was with Kal! So Nesado needed the Dupe wife in order to instruct and command her - teach her his version of what was supposed to be - a revelation that Kal seemed surprised at! Either Nesado instructed her towards betraying the Royals (which she seemed indecisive about just before they left for the cave in Departure) or something happened with Tess, the Dupes, & Nicholas in NYC before Max found her - Nicholas may not have been able to "rape" her mind due to Nesado's trainging as Courtney had said, but he could've planted some powerful thoughts & mindwarps in Tess herself. Courtney said Nicholas had their powers times thousands and Tess remarked that she'd never faced such power before! Jeeeez! I should not be allowed to speculate & ramble on only 3 hours of sleep!!! I could be snoozing now, too, and here I am speculating on a CHAD filled TV show! I love Roswell for it's CHADS! It leave soooo much for the imagination to explore - and something interesting to chat about! Unplanned mystery! Oh, the storylines the writers could harvest off this thread alone! I love it! I'm addicted! I am very, VERY tired!!!! |
Posted 01-25-2002 12:11
AM by mezz
quote: Where is this said? I have missed it.
quote: I have often wondered myself why only Michael has found his donor. I understand that now we know how it was done the explanation has been given, I understand that it is a pointless storyline to have the R4 waste time looking for their donors, but I wonder why only Michael has found his donor when Max is supposed to be king. Yes I understand that it was the need-for-family-story thing but still...Michael got a lot of his personality from his donor. It would be interesting in the quest for understanding of oneself and the sense of isolation and who am I? themes that JK likes, to have them find out a bit about their human donors and how it is effecting them on their way to being the people Antar needs them to be. It would also be a great way for the parents' suspicions to be raised in a finding-out-their-children-are-alien story line. Trouble is this would need to be discovered slowly over a season a bit like season 1 was handled. With all the problems with ratings and stuff they keep having to rush stories through and we only see the bare bones of it.
quote: Did Nascedo have to obey all the 4 or just Max? Was this explained in S3 which I haven''t seen yet? Sorry if it was. Nascedo obviously didn't like obeying anyone but showed grudging respect to Max. He didn't seem to show that respect to Michael when he called saying,'I don't answer to anyone but Max'. Well not exactly but told Michael not to call him unless under instructions from the King. I agree that Ava was probably the true royal plant rather than Tess and this would be a good reason to swap the pods.
quote: I so agree. I enjoy the CHADS for the fact that I don't know how the story is going to go. My problem is that they keep trying to screw with the Roswell team and not letting them just relax and develope the series. Things always have to be 'exciting' so that more ratings are drawn in. Necessity screws with the story line. I am afraid that the series will end and all we will be left with is questions. And yes, I insist of haveing faith. I believe that some of the mything is still in JK's head it's just he doesn't have the opportunity to make it effective because of ratings pressures and the pressure to be 'popular' to the main stream. I say forget the main stream. Just write and produce a good show. Of course I'm not the one in charge of the funds. [ 01-25-2002: Message edited by: mezz ] |
| Posted 01-25-2002 05:44
AM by Zara
Hi Shilohaura and Mezz, About Tess' mother having the name Sheila -- I think that might have been from a slo-mo of Tess' school record. |
Posted 01-25-2002 08:05
AM by shapeshifter
quote:But Zan was not "horn dogging" after Ava from what she said. If anything, Max was after Liz....hmmm.... Shilohara, BTW, all your specs have been discussed on earlier Liz Importance threads. Have you read them (or read it elsewhere) or is this another example of more than one of us thinking the same thing? |
| Posted 01-25-2002 12:35
PM by Zero
Just swinging by to say HI! and hope everyone has a nice weekend! Looks like we get a new episode next week, but the preview I see does not appear to have anything "Liz Myth" worthy. I wonder why they didn't do the twilight zone approach instead of the bewitched approach. I know Felicity already did a twilight zone episode - which was totally cool - but it would fit Roswell well! See you all next week! |
| Posted 01-25-2002 09:58
PM by jero
I saw this on another thread and noticed the sign in the background.
Does anyone know what eppy it's from? Later, |
| Posted 01-25-2002 10:38
PM by GraceKel
Jero that pic is from Its Too Late and Thats Too Bad when Max grabbed Liz by the arm rather forcefully and she said let go of me. Hope that helps. Shilohaura--nice to see someone else posting some theories,
Shapeshifter is right, we have tackled many of those ideas completely at
one time or another, but on this thread we always say if someone comes in
and interprets things in the same way, there must be something to
it-LOL!!! |
Posted 01-26-2002 02:15
PM by shapeshifter
quote: quote: Great catch, jero & GK! So then, I guess we could say that was the ep when Max was being Junior A$$ And Shilohaura, just to dovetail with GraceKel's and my earlier comment, even if we have discussed it before, it's been awhile and many posting here now may not be familiar with some of those ideas. Also, I/we often forget them & it's good to bring them back up. If we hadn't been talking about the theory of 2 shapeshifters for so long, I don't think we would have been as thrilled when Kal appeared. Of course, the actor who played him was of a higher caliber than the average villain too. |
Posted 01-27-2002 07:51
PM by Reggie
quote: I've seen the episode. The "I Married An Alien" theme fits nicely into the plot development... but (as advertised) it's an Isabel-plot, not a Liz-plot. The "Roswell" episode, as such, is pretty good. The plot works, etc.; we've seen much worse. The "I Married An Alien" (Copyright (C) Isabel's Imagination, Inc. All Rights Reserved) mock episode is hysterical! I do believe that there are a few shout-outs to the fans. (Note to those susceptable: don't forget to duct tape your heads, so when they explode you'll be able to find all the pieces.) Your smilage may vary. |
| Posted 01-27-2002 08:29
PM by Nemo
Hi Reggie, Thanks for the encouragement. |
Posted 01-27-2002 08:34
PM by GilrozGirl
quote: That's exactly what I was thinking when GraceKel said which episode that was from. ~Gilroz Girl (again, with nothing valuable to contribute to the conversation) |
| Posted 01-28-2002 06:34
PM by ~FinallyOverMax~
Hey guys this is umm, healersbabe yes, one of those life phases...anyways...I haven't posted because I'm incredibly spoiled ...but I thought I'd pretty much share this as a nice ending to the drama especially since they said there would be cast changes and well, the original book LIZ was a Latina (you GO!!!*CHEERS*) ...well here you go . Snacktime and not spoilerish though I wish it was would we only WISH they'd be this good at wrapping CHADs. IMAGE: superluminous.homestead.com/files/jodetecabron.gif
|
| Posted 01-28-2002 08:16
PM by shapeshifter
FinallyOverMax... I knew it was you when I saw your new handle on the main page of the board But how sad your name is. I personally think they made Max a loser because JB was attacked on the set during the height of his hunkularity. (I just invented that word--not sure if it works.) But that discussion belongs on another thread if not board if not universe and time warp. But anyhoo, just dropped in to share that over on the blu5.com board
they refer to the "GranaLiz"! [ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 01-28-2002 09:45
PM by jero
Crashdown is reporting that ROSWELL has been CANCELLED by UPN http://www.savethatshow.com/Save_That_Show__Roswell.shtml Write to UPN tell them what you think!!! This is NOT an e-mail to UPN!!! 'Save That Show' prints your letter and mails it in an envelope. Crashdown is reporting that ROSWELL has been CANCELLED by UPN Later? |
Posted 01-28-2002 10:07
PM by ~FinallyOverMax~
quote: Well he sure has plenty of hunkularity to go around and then some !!
quote: But ofcourse!!! ... |
| Posted 01-29-2002 07:06
AM by GraceKel
Hey Fellow Liz Mythers, I just found out recently some things that I didn't know-----did you know that it was David Nutter who wanted Shiri for the lead/Liz? Did you also know that David Nutter left because the changes that were talked about during season1---he knew it would destroy the core fan base? Hadn't we been wondering why the character of Liz had been put on the back burner so much? So obviously the original premise for Roswell must have been more David Nutter's vision than I had ever realized. And with him leaving Liz was no longer the star of the show---BIG MISTAKE!!!! People can call it living in the past all they want, but to me this is when Roswell was FULL QUALITY, the fans weren't all fractured, the critics were singing its praises---and all they needed to do was BUILD ON THAT---but they didn't. So now Roswell is being cancelled, I feel extremely sad for the LOST
POTENTIAL of what COULD HAVE BEEN but in some ways I feel a sense of
relief---Roswell has not brought me much joy in a very long time now,
although I tried to hang on and hope that things would turn around. |
Posted 01-29-2002 09:33
AM by cantbehrit
quote: David Nutter is obviously a very smart man.... Maybe he could write a little movie titled "Roswell"... Cantbehrit |
| Posted 01-29-2002 10:05
AM by JBehrsGurl
save ROSWELL! go here! http://savethatshow.com/Save_That_Show__Roswell.shtml |
Posted 01-29-2002 05:48
PM by Reggie
quote: He's working on Smallville now. Ever wonder why Smallville has the "sense of wonder" that Roswell did, until DN left? |
| Posted 01-29-2002 06:46
PM by jero
Posted at Crashdown quote: Later, |
| Posted 01-29-2002 09:32
PM by shapeshifter
With GraceKel's anthem of The Potential Of Roswell echoing in my brain, I sat down tonight to watch a show that I was sure would scream "I deserved to be cancelled." But I was happily surprised to get up from it thinking, "I bet the new UPN exec is sorry she cancelled it." Then, I logged on and read that 'reports of Roswell's demise were slightly exaggerated' (to paraphrase someone--was it Mark Twain or Will Rogers?). And the promos for next week even had some of that ol's 1st Half of S1 feeling, with Liz front & center. |
| Posted 01-29-2002 11:47
PM by 6throck
Zero OMB!!! Long time no talk!!! Seriously, we have to get together again sometime. I just saw the preview for next week's epi!! (Well, I knew it was coming--spoiled rotten here--but the preview looked great!!) Finally, they're going to address the changes that we knew took place as soon as Max healed Liz back at the beginning!!! I wonder if the list that someone gave KKB of the summary of this thread finally got some attention!! I'm sure they won't address all the issues that everyone here has come up with over the last 2 1/2 years, but at least it's a push in the right direction. And I can't tell you how much I'm going to love a "Liz-centered" epi at last!!!! |
| Posted 01-30-2002 02:34
AM by c. mccoy
First off, let me say how big a fan I am of you guys. I haven't dropped by since Sept. or Oct. & I have to say I'm a little surprised you're all still here. Let's face it: the season has stunk & there's been little or nothing in way of mythology. It was obvious JK & company hadn't listened to a word we said last season or during the summer. It didn't surprise me to learn Roswell got close to a 4.0 rating at the beginning of "Busted" & then barely had a 3.0 by the end of it. I felt so cold during & especially after the episode. The life had already been sucked from it. And it didn't get any better. There's been some good moments during the season but not nearly enough. Today the sadness hit me. I've been in a funk all day. The fanbase is like a family. Does anyone know if we'll still have a forum? Anybody wonder what could've been? |
| Posted 01-30-2002 02:49
AM by c. mccoy
BTW, does anyone else find it painful the watch 1st seaon & a half?(Independence Day through Wipe-Out are may favorites.) I haven't been able to bring myself to watch them for a long time. It
just hurts too much. As a matter of fact, my collection pretty much stops
after Off The Menu. I kept about 4 episodes after that that I liked. I'll have to tape these last few episodes just in case the thought that he's finally lost his big break sobers JK up and he actually produces something with a heartbeat. Or something worthy of the name Roswell. |
| Posted 01-30-2002 09:25
PM by GraceKel
Hi Fellow Liz Mythers---well I am quite surprised to say that I LIKED last nights episode, I thought for this type of episode, it was very creative, well done, and cute----so I agree with you Reggie LOL!!! And you Shapeshifter. I guess my only complaint would be that with seemingly so few episodes left, I was hoping they would get to some BEEFY DETAILS yet we are just chugging along. I haven't really looked for clues too much but a few things that did jump out at me was first off that Eric Hughes---EH--Ed Harding, Ed Hubble==coincidence, maybe. The references to the space ship being parked in the basement, reminders of Busted at the convenience store, in Isabel's apartment there was this pic which looked like a four square but the first block was missing and placed in a fifth position underneath. Also it was kind of funny that the parrot referred to Jessie as JIM---Jim Atherton, Jim Valenti, JIM? Who knows. In the sixty side of things, they portrayed Max as not thinking very HIGHLY of HUMANS----so unMax like to me. I saw the promos for next weeks episode, FINALLY a Liz episode this late in the season-hmmm- I just hope its not hokey---I did notice the levitation and Max's car with SS clearly visible on it---they show that quite a bit---seems like a hint to me. |
| Posted 01-30-2002 10:27
PM by shapeshifter
GraceKel, I should be sleeping. But it's so kewl that you & me & Reg are finally joining hands and dancing and doing ring-around-the-rosy again. Great catch on EH! I do soooo believe they did that for us or at least for some other conscious, eh-ish reason. Ooo, is Max going to shape shift? gnite now. |
| Posted 01-30-2002 10:39
PM by Style
Gracekel, Liz is Liz. Style |
| Posted 01-31-2002 06:00
AM by GraceKel
Shapeshifter--those comments were CHILLING indeed!!!! Style---Liz is Liz and what were you trying to say here, I don't get it? Okay back to the Four Square Puzzle with the first piece missing and a fifth below the bottom two---well I was just thinking that this is Michael's position in the book---that would be missing wouldn't it? Another thing I noticed, Phil Evans says to Michael you are not a member of the Country Club(2 cc's) so well you better stick with us---hmmm. Another thing I noticed is Max saying, "you go for one JOYRIDE and people never let you forget it"---well I hate to tell you what THIS reminds me of but I am not laughing about this one at all. A couple of other things from previous episodes I forgot to mention---when Jim goes to see Valenti Sr the camera pans briefly on a foursquare plug---all the caps are white except a black plug is plugged into the top right position which is suppose to be Isabel's position is it not? So what does that mean? Well maybe nothing but it was shown. Those cards came up again in this episode---Jessie being a WILD CARD. And lastly I would like to touch briefly on the angel references--there have been several references to Max being born the King of Angels. In episode Ask Not when Max is walking Tess home they go by a sign that says Angels vs Dodgers. In Significant Others Phil calls Isabel "my little angel", in LA, Bunny says Joey was no angel but I cared about him. In ARCC as Tess and Kyle are in the kitchen talking about the great gift---on the refrigerator we see an angel symbol and I think its meant for Kyle(LOL) and a V(well for Vilondra?) for Tess? And what about the Lincoln County reference---Lincoln of course freed the slaves, thats what he is noted for the most, now the question is, did Zan free the slaves, or did the leader of the rebellion do this? That is why I continue to question who is exactly who LOL. I can't tell you how many Liz mythers I have talked to in private pm that have said they have lost their ability to myth about the show, I find this most sad indeed. |
| Posted 01-31-2002 11:52
AM by Luke Goral
Hey! I've just noticed an ambiguity in the Mom'ogram. Someone has probably noticed it before, but... So, in Destiny, when Mom says "My son, you were the beloved leader of our people. I have sent with you your young bride. My daughter, the man you were betrothed to, and your brother's second-in-command", what does she mean by "the man you were betrothed to, and your brother's second-in-command"? Is she sending a person who is Isabel's betrothed and Max's second-in-commmand, or a person who is Isabel's betrothed and ANOTHER person who is Max's second-in-command? Interesting, isn't it? What do you think? |
| Posted 01-31-2002 01:45
PM by GraceKel
Luke Goral---WELCOME to this thread---LOL YES we have discussed this very thing that FIVE people could have been referred to in that MOMOGRAM but thats okay its good to see that we have picked up things that other people discover as well. So keep the ideas coming. Maybe not so much lately but you will find on our old threads that we combed the desert(so to speak) for clues-LOL!!! |
| Posted 01-31-2002 07:35
PM by shapeshifter
GraceKel, Great stuff! My daughter & I are going to watch/rewatch now; I will try to look for the things you mentioned & more. Luke, |
| Posted 02-01-2002 02:38
PM by Zero
6th Rock! Hope all is well with you! I must say I thought this last episode was okay, cute at times, and clever how they tied in the reality with the fantasy/Bewitched stuff, but I also thought it was embarrassing at times, and ridiculous that a show that had so much promise with so few episodes left to tie up all the loose ends up was spending an episode this way. Maybe if I hadn't just spent two 12 hour days working on a proposal, I might have been in a better state of mind, but ... At least we did get a tidbit or two, but... I'm tired of tidbits! And to think this was written by Moore. I just expect more of him. (BTW - my mom used to work on Bewitched occasionally, and I adored Elizabeth M. - so my reaction has nothing to do with using that show for the fantasy - I think it has more to do with the following issue.) What is with the complete focus on Isabel this season?? I liked Isabel's character, sometimes more, sometimes less, but I'm soooo bored of her now, I'm getting to where I can stand her character. Between I/J and the search for spawn of M/T, this season has left little to be desired. I must say I'm VERY excited about the previews. Now this looks interesting!! Finally, something (I hope ) myth about. Maybe we will get some fun and interesting final episodes! I'm sure hoping! Zero |
| Posted 02-01-2002 03:39
PM by c. mccoy
Ch-ch-change. What an ironic title. Isn't that what got them in trouble in the first place. According to the things I've been hearing regarding the rest of the season, they may finally be listening to what the fans want. There's what - 6 episodes left? That's plenty of time for JK to start taking his medication again - or stop. Which ever caused him to stop using his brain. |
| Posted 02-01-2002 06:12
PM by cantbehrit
Just dropping in to say ...I used to come by a lot last year so I'm sure noone remembers me. But I drop by here to read up on the stuff you guys come up with...because it all makes sense to me!! Next week will hopefully bring a lot of good stuff for mything! Cantbehrit |
| Posted 02-01-2002 08:37
PM by Style
Gracekel, Liz is Liz, meaning in my opinion, she is still completely human. As Nacedo stated "they are more advanced" than the humans b/c of their brain capacity. It's the brain, not the base, or the structure. I guess this is what the Antar Special Unit believed. That said, their three (3) royals (and I am a strong believer in this) sent them here, as superiors. But, of course, something went wrong. The protectors either were killed and/or left b/c, here on earth was a hell of a lot better than Antar, i.e., in their time frame. Antar had been deceived, and it continued to earth. The Antarians, never expected their King Zan to fall for a human. Roswell. Style |
| Posted 02-01-2002 10:24
PM by GraceKel
Okay Shapeshifter you have had enough time to watch this episode 10 times over I am waiting--foot tapping--LOL-just kidding!!! And you told me after this episode you just might do some speculating hmmm?? Zero--yes thats the MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION isn't it? The fans continue to scratch their heads and say wth???? You are in good company with your thinking as you well know. c mccoy--welcome back to our thread but I have a bone to pick with you---you said we were going to love Departure, I remember you posting this last season before the finale--well I didn't--LOL I found it quite unsatisfying actually--just kidding around I hope you know. CantbehrIt--boy can I relate to your name when it comes to Roswell these past two seasons. Style---I already know you think Liz is fully human and all I have ever said on the subject is that I am open to either or-----as it stands a few nagging questions from season1---no I can't develop amnesia and pretend season1 didn't happen--they just reaired the pilot-LOL---"It Was You", "so that you will know that I am STILL ME" Why does a six year old get off the yellow school bus in kindergarten and seem to share a look of recognition together? In TLV Max tells Liz "you're the one Liz, the only one, I could never be with anyone else" he also said "I know that you're the one I am SUPPOSE to be with, I have always known it"----"and that day you got shot.......it was fate"----Now if these two souls seem to have some sort of recognition to each other--then there has to be a connection----now I am open to a human connection---but quite frankly they haven't explored that enough for me to get any clues on that---so I watch the episodes and I get out of an episode what I can---I once thought when they aired Summer of 47 that they might touch on something here, but they didn't so I can only speculate on what has been given so far. And quite frankly they are running out of time here, so I wish they would stop beating around the bush and get to the BEEF-LOL!!! I can only HOPE they will get to the beef---and not offer some half hearted conclusion like Departure was--something that J Katims thought was a satisfying conclusion for a season finale if not SERIES???(ah no way Buddy!!!) But I am quite use to disappointment so nothing will surprise me really. Btw Shapeshifter I also noticed one more thing when they show the promos of IMAA with the sship crashing to earth and 3 aliens pop out, we have Max, Isabel, and Michael,----now later in the episode just as Max and Isabel are about to enter the crashdown for breakfast---you might have to slow-mo(LOL) a waitress walks by with a tray with 3 JELLO's in a glass--thats what it looks like to me anyway----one is YELLOW, one is RED and the last is BLUE. In 285South Max tells Liz "we are not all the same you know" ---well maybe not---Yellow, Red and Blue. |
Posted 02-01-2002 10:56
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Hmmm...do I see the word "spin-off" written in the clouds above Roswell?
quote: I'm just collecting my thoughts & notes! I had to prepare to teach college students how to research conservation biology on Monday and Physics on Tuesday, and then teach my daughter how to build a snowperson, plus other stuff at work, but never fear! I just watched it for the 3rd time! K, here's my finds:
Okay, not too much Liz stuff, but tune in next week for more shapeshiftin' mythin' P.S.: I thought that was sooo funny the way Bewitched Max stressed that Isabel was his sister if you know what I mean. [ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: shapeshifter ] |
| Posted 02-02-2002 04:48
PM by user_name
In honor of the upcoming episode, this thread certainly does not deserve to be stranded on the second page. So I'm moving it on up... I enjoyed reading the thread regulars' theories after each episode last season. Too bad there hasn't been too much to theorize on this season. From the looks of the new promo though, maybe you'll have some fun with this one. [ 02-02-2002: Message edited by: user_name ] |
| Posted 02-02-2002 05:18
PM by Vihmakass
....from lurking, Hi all Mythers! Im so exited about new ep.,can't wait! I was busy with my work and depressed with Roswell, see ya soon! [ 02-03-2002: Message edited by: Vihmakass ] |
Posted 02-02-2002 06:12
PM by Nemo
quote:Hi, shapeshifter. Cool observations. Thanks. Remember the old 3 + 1 + 4 patterns, how there was often something twofold about the 1 item? (The one that was separate or slightly different from the others, like the string bass on its side behind the three guitars upright, in Maria's picture of Alex's instruments. Or the pair of eighth-notes flagged together, alongside the three detached ones.) Well, maybe this is reaching, but Michael was conspicuously carrying two golf clubs when he arrived as the 1 in the 3+1 = 4 golfing party. (Shouting "Fore" in case we don't get it.) [ 02-02-2002: Message edited by: Nemo ] |
| Posted 02-02-2002 06:33
PM by shapeshifter
Nemo, I'm not sure what the significance of the 2 clubs and the "Fore" (yelled how many times? 3? or 4?), but both stood out, especially the clubs. And what do you think of the 2 clocks set to 6:50 placed vertically over each other? And it was 8:58 (I think) when Jessie had to meet Iz's dad for golf. |
| Posted 02-02-2002 06:41
PM by Nemo
"Fore" was yelled three times. (All useless as warnings, since the ball had already come to rest.) If it had been twice, I was ready to suggest the 4 + 4 symbolism of the podsters and the dupes, but since it was three times I wasn't going to mention it. (In physics I can't be that selective with my data, but this is a different game.) [ 02-02-2002: Message edited by: Nemo ] |
| Posted 02-02-2002 06:55
PM by GraceKel
Shapeshifter are you sure that was transvestite Michael on that magazine????? LOL I thought it may have looked like him but I couldn't swear to it--anybody else???? Nemo--interesting you brought up the yelling of FORE because I was
thinking aren't you suppose to yell that as you make the shot not
after--LOL. |
| Posted 02-02-2002 07:08
PM by Nemo
Speaking of patterns and names: long ago when I saw the Mayflower moving company's logo on the boxes of Tess and Nasedo's household stuff, I thought the symbolism was that of a ship from alien shores to a new world. Now I notice the sails also make a 3+1 pattern.... [ 02-02-2002: Message edited by: Nemo ] |
| Posted 02-02-2002 07:40
PM by shapeshifter
GraceKel, I 'graceKelled' my tv because it looked like Michael, but I discovered it was a female. I'm thinking it was a photoshop manip of a Brendan pic that they threw in there for fun. Speaking of fun, Michael was obviously yelling fore after the fact when
he knew quite well that he was supposed to do it before. BTW, I believe
his ball stopped Jessie from drinking the Scotch. |
| Posted 02-02-2002 08:59
PM by Antarian Princess
i think liz is an amazing key 2 the royal 4's alien mythology. i mean, in end of the world, it took a human, not an alien, to help end an alen war and save the world. also in heart of mine, she ended it with max AGAIN.Hey you guys, I even made a poem 4 Heart of Mine.( ignore the fact that it doesn't rhyme) Balloons pass over my head |
| Posted 02-02-2002 10:49
PM by Norma Bates
I haven't been to this board in a while. I've been very, very busy but I've still been keeping lists and ideas and writing theories. LOL. I was just rewatching the Pilot and saw a bottle with a skull and cross bones prominently displayed behind and to the left of the bottle of katchup that Max grabs and breaks and pours onto Liz. It struck me as an odd place to have something like that. Normally the skull and cross bones are associated with poison or death or piracy. Why would it be with food products? A hint for how close Liz came to death? Or that ultimately he would "steal" Liz from her previous safe life and drop her into a life in which she is the hunted and the hunter and she is searching for information and answers(which would be the jewels, money, and goods from a normal piracy story) and sometimes having to fight and steal for the information. |
Posted 02-02-2002 11:13
PM by Norma Bates
quote: Couple things with the "Tex" reference: 1. When I was little, the schools I went to used TEX as the abreviation for Texas. State abreviations used to be mostly 3 letters (a very few 2 letters and the 4 letter states not being abreviated)long before they were changed to 2 letters. Like Illinois was ILL. It wasn't until like junior high that we went to 2 letter state abreviations. 2. If I remember correctly, TeX was one of the first nicknames for Tess's baby, SpOT. SpOT won on the popularity contest. |
| Posted 02-03-2002 12:00
PM by Luke Goral
Thanks! I've just read the summary on http://ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/intro.htm. It's very interesting! I like all that theories about Liz, maybe because I came to similar conclusions a few weeks ago. I've just came up with this idea about the Granolith. Maybe it's nothing new to you, but I still want to share. Here it is: Maybe the Granolith really is a ship, but not just a ship capable of FTL travel. Instead, maybe it is the ONLY ship capable of FTL travel. It could be an ancient artifact found by the aliens. They can't make another one - they just use this one. Other ships can travel with it, but they can't travel FTL on their own. What do you think? How does it fit in (I live in Poland, so I haven't seen season 3 yet)? I think it explains why it is so important to the aliens. It's their only mean of interstellar transport. Without the Granolith, trade between their worlds is impossible. It's also impossible to make a WAR. Maybe that's why it was sent to Earth - to prevent a war. You can't make war if you can't reach your enemy. So, I ask again. What do you think? Is it possible? P.S. Please, forgive me my English. I'm Polish and I rarely use English in practice. |
| Posted 02-03-2002 04:23
PM by jero
Can we talk about the promo for the next show in here? Or do you guys wait until the eppy airs? Later, |
| Posted 02-03-2002 04:57
PM by GraceKel
Jero--as soon as a promo hits their airwaves you can discuss it--so you have a green light. Norma Bates, I think Nemo mentioned this Skull and Bones thing from Pilot but it always reinforces things when others discover the same things. LukeGoral--interesting about the granolith--it could be something like that, although Kivar said a new mode of transportation they have been working on---so it seems that since it has been 50 years plus since original crash they might have discovered other means of travel? Antarian Princess--welcome to the thread and thanks for the poetry. Shapeshifter--its funny but I forgot all about that Michael was suppose to be painting, wonder why Jessie never questioned it? LOL!!!! |
| Posted 02-03-2002 07:31
PM by Nemo
The skull-and-bones thing sounds like the standard warning symbol for poisons. I don't think I noticed that in the Pilot, but I remember others commenting about that back room -- that sometimes the cleaning supplies were stored close to the food. |
| Posted 02-03-2002 07:48
PM by jero
IMAGE: www.theddd.com/ch/ch17.jpg Notice the "Destiny" book, and the glowing things are the healing stones (?) It always amazed me that the P.I. that Phil Evans hired didn't return to the desert and dig up what Max & Michael buried. What P.I. worth his fee wouldn't have gone back? Later, |
Posted 02-03-2002 08:11
PM by Reggie
quote: Well, there's any number of brands of "hot sauce" out there, not just Tabasco (R). (I don't care for Tabasco, as it happens. I'm partial to Frank's Red Hot, but Louisiana Crystal is good, too.) We know the podsters like the stuff, and the CrashDown carries it. Possibly this is just another brand of hot sauce? If it's really supposed to be HOT, their marketing dep't. may have put the skull & crossed bones on it to brag, rather than to warn. I've seen Ch-Ch-Changes. No spoilers, but remember my Dis-Tressed Liz Hair Theory? Still going... |
| Posted 02-03-2002 08:29
PM by shapeshifter
Antarian Princess, Great poem! It really captures Liz's quandry and dilemma. I never could understand why so many fans didn't understand. Norma Bates,
quote:Wow, Luke Goral, your English is better than a lot of Americans'! And great idea too! It would fit with what happened in Season 3: KVAR (a bad guy who would probably want to make war) appears, but he uses a "new" method of travel that looks like a wormhole.
quote:Major CHAD, except I was served with papers for a lawsuit this Saturday by a PI who smelled of rotten alcohol and had the DTs. And he was hired by a lawyer who was hired by the lady whose fender my daughter dented last July. Pretty silly that they hired a PI since I'm in the phone book. So, yes, it's a CHAD, but it's more of a CHAD in the legal realm in general rather than specific to the Roswell script. Reggie, That would be cool if they had read your Hair Theory here or at ROSWELL SEASON 2 THEORIES. |
Posted 02-03-2002 11:07
PM by Into the Woods
quote: Oh my God! This is so beautifully said! |
| Posted 02-04-2002 12:57
AM by Norma Bates
I was watching Secrets and Lies - on the tree Liz and Max were standing under talking about needing to go to LA to investigate Ferrini's death there were some graffiti, signs and numbers on the tree trunk (the tree looks to be old and dying). The tree was always between them and the symbols started at head level. The signs, numbers and graffiti include: Later on Liz's balcony, while she was on the phone with Max she was lighting a red candle with crosses going around the rim. [ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Norma Bates ] |
| Posted 02-04-2002 01:01
AM by c. mccoy
You mythers should have new inspiration Tues. These Roswell boards are jumping lately. The buzz surrounding Ch-ch-changes just amazes me. Of course, the cancellation talk brought them back but the talk of that episode has kept them here. People's been saying they've talked to people they have heard from in a year. The ratings should be up Tues. Now if JK would just let us in on what's in that damn Destiny Book. Although, I don't guess he can't tell what he doesn't know. Anybody know how many lives Roswell has left? |
| Posted 02-04-2002 11:56
AM by Alexis
I got this discussion off of the Cherishing thread and I thought I'd move it over here. It is interesting how when Max has healed both Michael and Liz (making the assumption that is what he is doing in the promo) that they both levitate, but when he heals humans they remain firmly planted on the ground. Hmmmmmmm. I'm sure I know what opinion GraceKel has about this. We'll see how the writer's take it. Minanda Destinee |
| Posted 02-04-2002 12:20
PM by jero
Posting blind... VOTING: Here's a new one, very similar, probably more important as there's a
"No, Cancel It" button Later, |
Posted 02-04-2002 02:07
PM by Reggie
quote: I think the cancellation talk has brought people back, to say goodbye. It's not excitement over CCC; it's a deathwatch. As for how good CCC really is? Well, the RBI will be the judges of that... and I won't say until we've all seen it. Next week's ratings will answer. As for the future of Roswell? All I'm prepared to say is that JK's Roswell is coming to an end. In S1, it was JK, David Nutter, and Thania St.John; and it was wonderful. In S2, it was JK, supervised by The WB; and it had potential. In S3, it's JK alone, and it's hideous. The new UPN President of Entertainment is Dawn Tarnofski-Ostroff; if she was a fan in S1 and knows what Roswell is supposed to be, she may be able to cancel JK and save Roswell. If all she knows is S3, and the ratings it's had- Roswell is toast. It's really up to her taste in TV, and appetite for infighting. We'll know in May. Really, though, "our" Roswell was cancelled at the end of S2; so it's a little like staking a vampire that used to be a friend. |
| Posted 02-04-2002 03:07
PM by c. mccoy
Reggie: I think you're wrong there. People ARE excited about CCC. Several people with those Neilsen boxes have they WILL tune in Tues. CCC won't be another typical S3 episode. Some have already seen it said it's so much like S1 it's scary. It's almost perfect. The rest of the season doesn't sound too shabby either. And I'm not so sure JK IS in charge anymore. I heard UPN hasn't lost TOTAL faith in Roswell so they changed the pecking order. I don't know who was in charge at the start of the season, but from what I heard they're not now. |
Posted 02-04-2002 05:55
PM by Reggie
quote: Well, I've seen both S1 and CCC, so I know what you mean. It is like S1, but twisted. As though JK had been TOLD to straighten things out, but couldn't quite bring himself to do it right. A change in "pecking order" at TPTB/Roswell would probably be a good thing. Jason Katims was in sole charge at the beginning of the season, who's in charge now? And would they be expected to run a fourth season? In what direction? (PM me the info, if it shouldn't be posted here. Visit the Critics' Corner, too.) |
| Posted 02-04-2002 06:31
PM by Zero
Hi All! I'm so excited about tomorrow night's episode!! The promote looks very exciting - and to FINALLY get back to the alien mythology stuff with a Liz-centric episode is sooooo exciting!! I can hardly wait!! Welcome to all newbies! Sorry I'm not welcoming you each! and welcome back all you who have been MIA!! I totally understand why you have been gone - I haven't had much to post either. Antarian Princess - I really like the poem! Grace Kel and Shapeshifter - where would we be without you two?? Thanks for keeping up the mything, even when it is hard to do! I may even rewatch IMAA tomorrow to prepare for CCCHanges. Maybe I will be less critical knowing a relevant episode is coming up?? Til tomorrow! |
| Posted 02-04-2002 07:05
PM by InLoveWithLiz
The buzz is explosive for this eppy, CCC. Something with a touch of S1, and will hopefully fill in some chads, at least with my sweetheart, Liz Parker. Davy |
Posted 02-04-2002 09:33
PM by shapeshifter
quote: jero, Thanks for the heads up on: http://www.savemyshow.com/shows/roswell.htm Here's the current results: Should It Stay On The Air? Percentage Number Of Votes Okay, this isn't even math now. Meanwhile, poor Liz is still levitating in pain that reminded me of the transition stage of childbirth. Gotta go do dishes etc. If nothing else, see y'all tomorrow after 9 Central time. |
Posted 02-04-2002 10:34
PM by jero
quote: You're welcome! I try to spread the "word" Speaking of which... The Campaign Crew has announced a new postcard campaign... but the images won't be posted on Crashdown until Wed. (I already know that Grumpy isn't interested.)
quote: Today at work I e-mailed the site about this. Maybe I'll get an answer tomorrow.
quote:
Later, |
| Posted 02-04-2002 11:59
PM by c. mccoy
I can't believe what they're about to do to us. Just when S3 gets interesting too. We only get 3 episodes for Feb. sweeps & THEN it goes on like a 7 WEEK vacation. Are they trying to kill us? |
| Posted 02-05-2002 10:18
AM by shapeshifter
Consider this for tonight's ep: quote: |
Posted 02-05-2002 10:30
AM by cantbehrit
quote: I believe so... Cantbehrit |
Posted 02-05-2002 02:45
PM by Reggie
quote: Oh Shapeless One, you missed an entry, one that had my vote: Continue, with Changes. That should appeal to all us Liz fans, right? And I'll decide on campaigning, after I see what the S3 finale
is like, and/or get a clue about S4 (which is rumoured to go off in yet
another direction). I got burned on Departure: had I known.... Does anyone else need reminded what my tag line initially was, this season? "When I sent Tabasco, there were FOUR podsters!" |
Posted 02-05-2002 04:13
PM by Zero
quote: Shapeshifter - This reminded me that when I spoke to Aaron H. (one of the co-writers of CCChanges) at the FF party this last August, I told him all about the Liz Myth Thread and the Intro (a copy of which I gave to Kevin KB), and he said he had seen the Thread, but never read it. He was intriqued by the ideas I presented, and said he would swing by sometime and read it all. I'm HOPING he kept his word and that it all inspired him (and his wife/writing partner) to write CCChanges. I'm not taking any credit, I'm just hoping that all our wonderful ideas served as an inspiration. I can hardly wait to see the episode - the buzz is wonderful!! Here is hoping for wonderful ratings tonight, too!! |
Posted 02-05-2002 04:28
PM by Zara
quote: Yeah, I think I remember that, but remind me again: who levitates in that one? All I remember was being glad when it was over! Obviously it's been a few years since I was in labor and delivery. I'm really looking forward to tonight, but won't view until late tonight. Couldn't stand last week. Call me Grumpy too, but Bewitched was a 30 minute sit-com for a reason. A whole hour of that was tedious. |
| Posted 02-05-2002 09:32
PM by haniczka
Zara, ITA about the Bewitched eppi. Hi everyone from a haniczka voice out of the darkness! I can't wait to read your reactions to CCC, and I have a few observations of my own... First of all, when Max is digging in the desert with Michael, he says something to the effect that Liz has never screwed up or let them down. But in his heart, he doesn't feel that way. He knows their connection broke when Liz pretended to sleep with Kyle and he doesn't know why she did such an outrageous thing. When he's trying to heal her, he says "Liz, you've got to trust me" but she doesn't trust him anymore, so he can't help her. So he's out on her window ledge, and he says "We need to talk about this" and he's right. They never did. We know that and I'm assuming the writers know it since they insisted on re-airing EOTW. When Max healed Liz back in S1, he made "a connection." Now she's changing as a natural progression from his touch. But Liz, or if you prefer, FMax caused their connection to be unnaturally severed. Because of that injury, Max can't supernaturally touch Liz anymore and their bad chemistry will persist until they TALK things out. I realize hind-sight is twenty-twenty, but really this episode would have made more sense as the Season 3 opener. As much as we wanted Max and Liz reunited, when she just said "I'm here for you Max" this fall, it was ludicrous. Tonight's episode made sense. -HH Edited to say: OKAY, where is everybody??? [ 02-05-2002: Message edited by: haniczka ] |
| Posted 02-05-2002 10:10
PM by SweetJo
OK! Thank God and Buddha! I finally have a reason to come back to my favorite thread on Ros1 again. I have lurked on occassion to read the insights of all the RBI legends (Zero, Shapeshifter, QFanny, GraceKel, and Reggie) but I have had no reason to post. Hi Zero I met you in August at the party and I told you that I used to love coming here. Well I am glad to say I am back! Okay, I am psyched now! I think that giving the Liz Myth Intro to Aaron has finally done the trick. I can't believe that the writers have been so blind. You can't have a story without the story--Liz is the story! I was thinking about all this again after the CCC promo had aired and I had this crazy idea. Really crazy! What if... the Granolith is this sacred thing after all, like many had believed, and the thing that took Tess away was just a decoy! What if the Granolith was somehow within a person...LIZ/the KEY. Yeah that is the really crazy part I was talking about. I don't know maybe I have overthought this whole thing and maybe the whole Dawn/Key thing on BTVS has warped my thinking. Anyone care to comment? Lots of Love, [ 02-05-2002: Message edited by: SweetJo ] |
Posted 02-05-2002 10:12
PM by shapeshifter
quote:Hey, do you suppose we could convince UPN/Fox that it's their patriotic duty to renew the show since it's the only one on the air that is By the People, For the People, and Of the People? These message boards certainly contain a lot of folks demonstrating their right to free speech as inspired by the show too. Right Reggie? And hey bud, watch it with how you tweak my nom de plume.
quote:
quote:Or...maybe his remark implies that they have talked off-screen and he now knows that she only did it to save the world? BTW, hani, this didn't occur to me till I read your post. What I had thought when she asked him why he slept with Tess in this ep was that she holds present Max responsible for everything that Future Max did--which I have always thought was only done at Future Liz's urging. |
| Posted 02-05-2002 10:32
PM by shaiwon72
hi. i haven't been here for a very long time and i have to say that this is by far, the best episode of s3. i don't know what else has been talked about so i'm going into this blindly. sorry if it has been talked about before. good point about liz's levitation during max's healing. almost symbolic w/ max's plea for liz to trust him and her answer "i can't". from whatever pain she's feeling at the moment, was she aware when she said "i can't"? max finally realizing that someone important to him is changing and "dying" that the despairation is there. oops... off topic. anyway, during the healing, the healing stones burst and disappear. when i initally saw that i thought that the stones probably got absorbed into liz. that she is the link to the 3 alien powers. it can be assumed that the healing stones were destroyed, but there weren't any traces left. max had said that the healing stones magnified his powers. so IF the healing stones were absorbed into liz, liz's presence could be the catalyst for the aliens for increased power. since tess is gone. and her power is interlinked w/ the other alien gifts, it sort of incompletes that power. but w/ the healing stones as a magnifier and if it was absorbed into liz, she could bring the 3 aliens together and make their power as powerful if tess was there. maybe w/ liz's changes, it's the stones way of calling to liz. she's special as it is w/ the astral projection to max and the flashes (oops. forgot maria had the flashes too). anyway, liz is linked to max even despite the distance between them. |
Posted 02-05-2002 10:36
PM by SweetJo
quote: ACK! So sorry I didn't do my homework first! After I posted this I went through parts of the Intro again to see what has been updated and low and behold there it was! You guys have already said this. Well, at least I don't feel so crazy for thinking this anymore. I thought that I might be going nuts over the whole Liz myth stuff. I have been thinking about it alot lately, even at work when I shouldn't be! Lots of Love, |
| Posted 02-05-2002 10:42
PM by Kal-el
I don't post here that often, but I just thought I'd point out something. Each of the aliens have some 'extra' and individual power(s) besides the usual molecular alteration. For example: Max: Healing/Energy Force Field However, as shown in 'Max In The City', Liz has an individual power as well. Astral projection. Now, what was Tess' 'extra' power? Mindwarps. Astral projection...mind warps... Both of which are powers of the mind. That being the case, I agree with the above post. That Liz is going to take the place of Tess in the Pod Squad, making them four once again, and helping to increase their power. Another thing. I don't think Liz's extra power is limited to astral projection. Look at Tess. She exhibited the ability to erase a person's memory, which makes me believe she was also telepathic. Actually, a person who was just 'telepathic' would be able to create mental illusions anyway. I think, perhaps, that Liz may show signs of being telepathic as well. Making her a true 'link' between the other three. -Peter |
Posted 02-05-2002 11:50
PM by mezz
quote: Yes this is a show about mything and all but I have always seen it as being a show also about people's reaction to people. I am constantly amazed at how so many seemingly intelligent people think that a love and a relationship will last on feelings they have, or the 'love' they have. As far as I can see (and I admit it is not from personal experience) a partnership is made strong on honesty and honest communication. Now I know you are all going 'yes, yes, that's what we've been saying all the time'. You see it, but I think so many people think they are being open and honest when they really aren't. So many people seem to miss the point. They think they have to give in to their partner, compromise for their partner or forgive and forget what their partner has done because they think this is love. Liz, you have complained, has become weakened and seems to just give Max pemission to walk all over her. But isn't that the point? So many real life women, especially of Liz's age do become weakened by their compromises and failing to call their lovers to account. Perhaps the point is that Liz and Max have been going through the -we love each other so let's make it work stage - the - let's just pretend it didn't happen - stage. The - I hurt you and you hurt me so now we're even let's just forget it - stage, and have only now realized that it can't work that way. Forgiveness and moving foward into a stronger love can't happen if you pretend important, hurtful events didn't happen. If this is the point, then for Liz and Max to have realised this in the first ep and had a long, deep, intelligent and mature talk about it would have lessoned the impact of the lesson. Not very clearly said. I hope you know what i mean. Shapeshifter - Perhaps that is a fairly natural thing for her to do. Even though FMax and PMax are not the same person they are the same person which is one of the problems of changing history and time travel (not that I've had personal experience of that either ) We know that FLiz told FMax what to do but he never told PLiz that and how would she know? It's not as if she would think, 'Well I'm really the brains behind everything that Max does so I must have asked him to do this to me' |
| Posted 02-06-2002 02:20
AM by Style
Antarian's sent their beloved (3) to earth, with their superior minds, and did they ever - calculate, Liz, a human. Style ok - this is sci-fi to me. |
| Posted 02-06-2002 07:08
AM by Alexis
I had a few observations: Liz is definitely not sexually active. I think this has an impact because this stresses that Liz doesn’t trust Max enough (as she tells him later). When Liz looks in the mirror her face is no longer there. Your face is what you identify as yourself and I think part of her changes are in her facing the fact that she hasn’t been herself, which includes being honest about what she feels towards Max sleeping with Tess. To expand on that, before she started changing she had no qualms about keeping her feelings/secrets from Max (Future Max situation—I’m going to assume since the conversation didn’t take place on the show it didn’t take place, her feelings about the Tex and his “son” (still hoping it was a mindwarp), and even about Michael sleeping over, which was completely innocent). But once she started changing the truth was revealed and Liz was actually more herself—strong! Liz’s face disappearing could also show her recognizing that her dreams are disappearing. When Maria was saying “You have no idea how liberating it is to just be free from all this alien chaos. Suddenly my life is like a life.” This hit home for Liz because she came to the realization that she will always be dealing with it. Of course, she puts space between herself and Max and Roswell, but deep down she knows she is changed and she can’t run away. I think this will be a theme later on (if the writers are smart). Liz got 2 C’s!!!! Liz had the dream of going to Harvard at age 5 NOT 6 which is the age that Max, Michael and Isabel broke out of the pods. I think this shows that she had dreams BEFORE the aliens came to town. That’s it for now. I would love your comments on these! BTW, I was wondering about the healing stones. Great theory that they were absorbed into Liz. That would actually work! |
| Posted 02-06-2002 08:49
AM by aldebaran
I have been lurking here for the past few months (read - since the evil S3 began), and I have to say that it is a pleasure to see everyone so enthused about an ep again! It was also nice to see Liz back in the lead - heck, with more than two lines! - again. I can't wait to read what you all have to say once the ep has had more time to sink in. |
| Posted 02-06-2002 09:11
AM by haniczka
aldebaran, how good to see you! Yes, mezz, I agree with everything you said, but with a science-fiction twist. I think when the communication/connection between Max and Liz was severed (thanks a lot, FMax) Liz's incubating powers began to mutate in a way that is now harming her and exacerbated by his touch. Originally posted by Shaiwon72: I agree with this except now I think Max's touch is almost toxic because of the bad chemistry between them. So while the stones recognize her, and perhaps have been ingested to increase her power, she will not be able to bring the three aliens together until her metabolism has stabilized. That's not going to happen until she and Max can see into each other's souls once more... Kal-el: I wonder if Tess's gift was intended to be more telepathic, as a communicator, but Tess was separated from the others so young. She never learned to give or love purely (defective pod??) She grew up selfish and used her powers to manipulate, deceive, mind-warp. In that case, Liz, the human could develop into a stronger adhesive/power source than FMax could imagine. As Syle, our Liz-Myth poet said in two lines: Antarians's sent their beloved (3) to earth, with their superior minds, and did they ever - calculate, Liz, a human. [ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: haniczka ] |
| Posted 02-06-2002 11:26
AM by Alexis
Aldy—I was just thinking about you yesterday. There’s a book I think you may want to read! Email me. I’m not sure what you new email is. |
| Posted 02-06-2002 11:47
AM by StarBox
Long time no see! I was so disgusted by Busted , that, to be honest - I stopped watching. But I heard rumors that this was going to be a good episode so I watched and HOORAY - so much Liz MYTH stuff! Just when I had all but given up. I will post as soon as a new board goes up - in the meantime I big
HELLO to all my mything buddies. Talk to you all soon! I have missed you!!!! **starbox** |
| Posted 02-06-2002 11:54
AM by Zero
HI ALL !! I have to rewatch this episode once again and pull my thoughts
together, but my gut reaction: There is SOOOOOO much in it, and they actually tied in stuff from past seasons/episodes, even to the comment in Blind Date about "what's so great about Normal?" I have waited patiently alllll season for this episode!! Sweet Jo - HI! Yep, we love the Liz is the Granolith idea - just like the "kep" idea used on Buffy. Shaiwon - Love the idea of Liz absorbing the power of the stones!! I did notice that it appeared to be Liz's power that blows them up - as a way to get Max to stop. I always said that the only reason the stones ever worked was because Liz was present, and that is why they did not work with Harding's healing attempt. This definitely plays into that belief. I love the idea that Liz completes the pod squad. Welcome everyone that has come back to post!! Little thing that jumped out at me was the writing on the park bench Maria and Liz were sitting on: "Top Doll" and "New & Used" were very prominent. I'm sure others noticed that! Also - ESQ2B brought up to me the rain spattered window that Liz separates herself from Max - remember the one that she watched him kiss Tess through in Season 1? Well here, the dragon decal is there protecting her. Also - the comment "I love you more than you'll ever know" is a direct comment about what Liz did at FM's urging and the sacrifices she has made - I do not think PM knows about FM, yet! Okay - have to work, but will take notes the next time I watch it and will be back for more!! THANK YOU AARON AND GRETCHEN!! !! Zero |
| Posted 02-06-2002 12:15
PM by aldebaran
Did anyone else notice that Liz packed her journal? How I've missed hearing her thoughts from the journal! Maybe she will get back to using it in VT. |
| Posted 02-06-2002 12:37
PM by Zara
Hey Starbox! So glad you're back! I loved last night, too. Can't wait to hear from Gracekel about her thoughts on the scene with Maria and Liz sitting on the bench. I'm sure you guys saw the picture on the back of the bench. It looks like Max (or was it Zan?) and Kal Langley, and they're pointing out at us in the audience. Gave me the creeps! Go look. It's definitely placed there for us to notice. Is Langley behind what's happening to Liz? Max wanted to take her to CA to see Kal, thinking he could help her, but Liz said NO. Maybe once again, her instincts are right on. Unfortunately the DDD didn't have a screencap of the bench scene! Go watch again! Liz' mirror gazing also creeped me out. So many times we've seen shots of people looking in mirrors when something really really strange is happening: Cousin Sean looking in the crashdown kitchen mirror last season with the Conserve Water sign in the corner, Kyle breaking the mind warp when he looked up into his mirror and saw Alex and Tess and remembered the whole thing, Niko tapping on the mindwarp mirror in the Crashdown during the timewarp episode, Liz looking at herself in the mirror in the Christmas epi last year (I think she was looking for CHANGE, since she'd just astra-projected herself to Max in New York in the previous episode), and now Liz looked in the mirror and couldn't see herself. I tend to see mirrors as symbols for revelation. (In Roswell and in general.) In Roswell sometimes they represent self revelation, but sometimes they seem like more than that. After WipeOut I started thinking of mirrors as portals. Sometimes they're portals to information, other time dimensions, and even portals to the folks back on Antar. OK, final mirror reference: Liz was looking at herself in the mirror with a bridal veil saying "I, Liz Parker, take you, Max Evans..." when Future Max came blasting onto the balcony through the time granolith. CREEPY! (LOVED this episode, of course) |
| Posted 02-06-2002 12:40
PM by Zara
One more thing, I found this at the DDD IMAGE: www.theddd.com/ch/ch41.jpg So you can choose, huh? Also, Bizarro (my husband) was quick to point out last night that Max's physical proximity to Liz was NOT the cause of her illness and manifestations. Are these changes the result of her healing or is someone or something else doing this to Liz? [ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: Zara ] |
| Posted 02-06-2002 03:31
PM by Essence
Zero, we are in agreement. I think Liz's powers made the stones explode (into millions of pieces/disintegrate). She was asking Max to stop what he was doing because it hurt. Max didn't. She made him stop by (unknowing) destroying the stones. Her WILL destroyed them. As for the changes, I don't think Liz is becoming alien (as Liz seems to think). I think Max awakened a part of her brain that is dormant in everyone else at this stage in humanity. The aliens' powers are what humans will become. Liz's brain is waking up and her senses are going through changes and adjusting to what they can now do. Her vision was affected (couldn't see her face in the mirror), her hearing, her sense of touch (the book catching fire). I don't know about smell and taste. Anyway, that's my take on things. Also, all of these things that happened to Liz are metaphoric as well. Liz not seeing her face - she is loosing her sense of self. The book catching fire - she might not get into Harvard because of what is happening in her life. And what about her not being able to hear some things. Normal life things, things about a normal future - the Harvard guy and Maria talking about her new music career. And what about the doctor. Does it mean something that the point when she couldn't hear him was when he was asking about her sex life? Good point that Liz still has not really trusted or accepted Max yet, othewise she probably would have made love with him by now. As for the electricity, I think it's part of the adjustment. Her body adjusting to what her brain can now do. As for Max affecting the electricity, I think any of the podsters would do that to her. None of the others have been near her yet. I think it is her body recognizing and reacting to someone else with the same parts of their brain awakened. |
| Posted 02-06-2002 03:54
PM by 4everyoung
Hi everyone Another MIA arrives to say - YES !!!!! - now that was roswell. Mezz - you really touched on it. Liz has had to hold in all of the anguish that she has felt all of this time. Anger at fmax for what he made her do, anger at PMax because he is FMax in present, anger at Max because of he and Tess, anger because she loves Max soo much that she has given up her life and maybe even her future. All of this is inside her and NO she can no longer trust Max. No matter what she has said, she knew that when she found out he had slept with Tess. She has been torn apart inside - one side loving Max and the other side so angry with him. So her changes start to manifest in harmful ways because they really do need to talk or they will never be linked in a good way. I picked up on the missing healing stones and I like the idea that the healing stones were taken into Liz.
I believe |
| Posted 02-06-2002 04:09
PM by StarBox
Okay - lots of random thoughts about CCC. I loved the way they tied in SO MANY of the myth themes and symbols. Of course I was in heaven with all the time spent in Liz's room and the return of the mirror! I do believe that Liz carries the essence (or partial essence) of someone IMPORTANT and someone connected to Max in the past life. The "New and Used Top Doll" (LOVED THAT) Anyway - here goes: *Thought there was alot of hints that they may be setting up a "virgin
prophecy" type storyline - the Dr. visit - the fact that the "healing"
centered on Liz's womb - the very cool image of her closing her window and
the dragon directly over her womb. * HOORAY that she finally let Max have it. * I thought on the bleachers when Max asked "her biggest regret" - there was a look that passed between them. I thought they both knew that the answer was TEOTW. Thank God - finally some sort of closure that they acknowledge the events of TEOTW. *Fainting, inability to concentrate, fatigue - those are all pregnancy symptoms. I dont think Liz is pregnant - but I do think that with all the focus on her womb and her virginity - just seems awfully myth-y to me. Then she went to an all-girls school again - kind of like surrounding herself with maidens or something. * Something happened during the healing - afterwards Liz seemed to have a strength and a peace about her change - although she was still changing and conducting electricity. * Liz still has sunflowers in her room on the balcony. She looked in the mirror again - which we once tied to stages of her hero journey. * She is studying the mutations of fruit flies - now fruit flies dont
change from one thing to another - rather they mutate based on their
genetic breeding. *Had Future Liz changed? Or did Liz have to be a virgin? *So happy to see the You Can Choose poster back again as well - thats another relic from Season One. Any symbol repeated from S1 and S2 in last nights episode HAS to be important. Also - when Liz taked to her Father about leaving you saw the THREE SHIPS menu from Crashdown lit in the backgroud. Anyway - thought this episode was kind of like the old Roswell - I
agree with Reggie - its a twisted version of the old Roswell but at least
it has some of that Roswell magic. What makes Roswell special is the myth.
Glad to see it back again. **StarBox*** |
Posted 02-06-2002 05:05
PM by Essence
quote: Is this the change that FMax was referring to when he said that she wasn't allowing herself to change? Maybe FMax and FLiz found out that Max healing someone would change them, but for some reason FLiz did not change. That's why FLiz sent him back. So that PLiz would do whatever had to be done so that she would start changing. Maybe the reason is the virgin issue. What other differences would there be between PLiz and FLiz? My guess is that PLiz has gone through a lot more heartache sooner in her life than FLiz. FL & FM were happy and inseparable after they cemented. Things got tough for FLiz later when the end of the world started to occur. Maybe it's stress that brought about the change. When the end of the world started to occur, FLiz started to change due to stress, but she had no control because it happened too late. PLiz is stressed out now and therefore the change is occurring. The changes wouldn't occur until it was necessary for her to need the powers. PLiz is stressed, her body started looking for a solution and therefore began the change. If PMax never betrayed PLiz (which occurred because of FMax) than PLiz and PMax would probably be happy and blissfully unaware of PLiz's need to change. Make sense at all? |
| Posted 02-06-2002 05:47
PM by Zara
Very good, Essence! I like your analysis. It's just so exciting, isn't it?! FInally, I can't wait for another episode! |
| Posted 02-06-2002 07:10
PM by shapeshifter
mezz, ITA with the P/F L&M perceptions. It would be interesting in a psychological sci fi way to see this explored further.
quote:Alexis, Excellent points!
quote:Yes! In fact, I thought it was very obvious. Zara, About the sign on the bench: It said something like "new & used." I was thinking Maria was the "new" rockstar who was going to be "used" by the industry, and Liz felt "used" by Max (remember finding the orb in SH?) but new with her changes. Essence, Zero, et al: About the healing rocks, I'm not sure.
They were kind of pinkish glowy, and there was a burst of pink light. But
more than that, when Max said 'just a little longer, I can feel it,' I was
thinking that (a) this was metaphorical for teen sex when the male wants
to do it and the female doesn't, and (b) that Max was mistaken about what
he was feeling--that it was Liz's new powers being drained, not the
exorcism of something separate from her.
quote:Essence, that was my take on those things too. Kind of like getting laryngitis when I should probably learn to think before I speak. Starbox!!!! You're back! And so is the DRAGON as you pointed
out. I just did a search at the Archives on "dragon," and found that we
first developed the "dragon" theories during last year's hiatus. Maybe we
can do as well this year in March. To paraphrase the Bible: WB & UPN
may pass Roswell away, but the words of the mythers will go on forever.
(humor intended) quote:
quote:We had theories about this. That cementing too early had stunted her "growth." Glad you brought this up again. And yes, in real life, growth does result from going through hard times, so yes, that is probably the intended metaphor. |
| Posted 02-06-2002 07:57
PM by Metaphysicalgrl
Hey Mythers! I see last night's episode brought back a lot of old school RBI'ers, including me! Last night's episode was indeed the first episode in a long time that evoked that same old feeling I used to get when watching Roswell. I am biting my tongue here w/a scathing comment about the writing on Roswell...and what took them so long, but since last night's episode was the first eppy in a long time that actually gave us something to think about -- I won't. I've read over a lot of your observations and comments, and really enjoyed your insight. One thing I didn't see mentioned that ocurred to me, was that Liz's 'powers' (Qfanny: Liz is NOT an alien!) seemed to happen when she had heightened emotions... - The plate melting -- She was mad at Max and everyone else for not
coming out and supporting Maria. Anger Actually, now that I think about it, every single instance where her 'powers' came into play seemed to be stimulated by her anger at Max. Including when she was in the garage w/Kyle. He was telling her to go to Max, and she was saying that she couldn't. Why? Because the trust is gone? I think there is an interesting correlation between Liz's repressed anger at Max and how that anger is manifesting itself in a physical sense in Liz. I don't think she is in danger of dying. Perhaps maybe there is some intervention going on from another source... an alien source.. that is making Liz confront her anger because maybe it's an important step that has to happen before whatever can happen next? In any case, who knows. I still find it hard to myth because of a supreme lack of trust in the writers and their ability to build a 'bigger' story, however, there is definitely a connection between Liz's emotions triggering whatever it is that is going on with her. And if the writers are going in the direction that Liz's changes have something to do w/Tess -- maybe Tess is trying to use Liz as a host body, I will turn off Roswell forever. Let this have nothing to do with Tess and the search for spot. On a side note, I haven't felt the M/L thing even though the writers wanted us to believe they were back together. Last night was the first step in resolving some of the issues for US -- the Audience -- so that we can become emotionally invested in this couple again. Why..why..why did it take the writers this long to figure out how to get this passionate fanbase emotionally invested in this show again? In any case, does anyone else think Kyle and Liz would make a great couple again? {~}:} |
| Posted 02-06-2002 08:22
PM by jero
Where'd all the peeps come from? I am sooooo enjoying everyone's theories! Is this what it was like in the "old" days? I can't wait to see this eppy! But I guess I have no choice...
quote: FYI... I'm pretty sure Qfanny is without Internet access. She occasionally posts from the library though.
quote: Confronting DEEP emotions of any kind is part of growing. Later, |
| Posted 02-06-2002 09:11
PM by Reggie
OK, gotta put my 2 cents' worth in. First, Hi! to all our old friends! Long time, no see. Good to have you back. This episode, IMHO, sucked big time. They tried, sort of, but not
quite... Liz yelled at Max, about how he's been hurting her with the Quest for SPOT. His reply, eventually, was about it being too late for her to take back what she said. Why would she want to take it back? HE hurt HER. And she still hasn't leveled with Max about TEOTW. She yelled at him, but not about the right things, or with the right effect. And if he's hurting her, why wouldn't she steer clear of him? No, it's not until it's medically necessary to stay away that she goes. At least she developed a spine eventually. And BTW: all these things DONT happen when Max is around. I agree that it's related to Liz's state of mind. The book that caught fire... I think some part of her wanted to destroy a book, all right! One with metal pages comes to mind... Plus, this has always been, in large part, a show about relationships. In this episode, Liz makes a clear break with Max. Michael and Maria are done. We've seen the loose thread which will unravel Isabel and "Darrin"- it was clearly marked "Do Not Pull This Thread". All the other romances are gone, too. What's left? Liz's Changes? Why now, besides it's sweeps weeks? Ava was the one who seemed to know about it, but they didn't mention her; let alone trying to have her explain anything. The Destiny book didn't say, either. They could ask Larek, maybe? My guess: they go away, never to be explained. If Liz was developing "powers", how come they aren't the same as the Podsters, or the ones she's shown before? Like bending a pencil, or accidently turning her 7-UP to Coke, or something. Perhaps uncontrollably doing an astral projection somewhere, when she should be taking a test? The girls characteristic powers have been mostly mental: dreamwalking, mindwarping, mental traveling. The guys are physical: healing, and destroying. So howzcome Liz is now having physical powers? Like I said: It's like S1, but twisted; so it doesn't quite make sense. [ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: Reggie ] |
| Posted 02-06-2002 09:41
PM by StephStephSteph
Hi RBi Oh.. it's good to be back! I don't have much time to write as I JUST watched this eppy, but had to pop on quickly before bed to check in. Let me just say - I LOVED it! I'll have to disagree with Reg on this one (there's a shocker ) - I thought it came around at just the right time. Granted, it's awfully convenient that it's sweeps week and wouldn't it have been nice if they had delved into Liz's changes back in MITC when Ava mentioned it, but.. they got to it and I love it! I'm totally torn with my emotions as I'm a die hard dreamer and watching the Liz/Max scene at the window literally brought me to tears. But.. I also got the feeling from Season 1 with the push-pull from Max and Liz that I love so much. I'm loving that they're FINALLY focusing on Liz and how important she is to the whole picture. Could she be the beginning of a chain of reactions in Roswell? But of course! Also (sorry forgot who mentioned this), I totally noticed she packed her journal! I miss those days. Anyway, like I said, don't have much time to write, so I'll be browsing the boards tomorrow and surely writing some more. FINALLY, I have stuff to say! |
| Posted 02-06-2002 10:34
PM by jero
Posting blind (again)... Valentine Campaign has officially begun! Here's the link to the instructions and images And don't forget VOTE DAILY http://www.savethatshow.com/Save_That_Show__Roswell.shtml http://www.savemyshow.com/shows/roswell.htm Later, |
| Posted 02-06-2002 11:04
PM by Zero
Hi all! It is so wonderful to see so many former friends back!! I'm off to rewatch the episode, but I wanted to make a quick comment. I think that Liz is like an infant who hasn't learned how to control her powers. She reminds me of Mikey G when he first developed certain powers. Remember when he blew out the car windows when he got upset. Emotions were very tied to his powers out of control. Liz is not only changing, but evolving - we have always thought this was possible, especially with one already using more of the normal amount of brain power - that she could evolve to a point of using more of her brain power which would manifest itself it the appearance of "powers." I love that it is finally happening, and hope it is not dropped. I hope that it is all tied back to the comment by FM that Liz needed to let herself "change" - and that by not cementing with Max early on, Liz went through the phase necessary to allow her to evolve as she needed to ... Okay off to rewatch the episode. BTW - IF we achieve 250 tonight, I will not be offended if someone else started Thread 57 - just PLEASE cut and paste the first post from this thread with the links. Otherwise, I will be back in the am to start a new thread is someone else hasn't. Until then - |
| Posted 02-06-2002 11:08
PM by Lelea
Hi to everyone. I have not posted before because I didn't see much to post about saddly. Finally the show is something I want to talk about and have postive things to say. I really love reading all the ideas and thoughts about what is going on it makes me see things I didn't before. Ok I think that all the powers Liz has are tied to her emotions and the stress of the last year. It is clear she is angry with Max but doesn't want to discuss it untill she has come to a resolution for fear of saying things she can't take back. Which by the way made me think of when Alex died and she yelled at Max and later said the WAY she said them and the Time she choose weren't the best but she meant what she said, were did that Liz go in s3? I love that they are physical powers Liz is different. I'm on board so far. I am left in the same place I was in during S2. Hopefull. I really loved EOTW I had hopes for where Roswell was going, I never thought it was going to the hell it went into. I am fearful af a repete. I want to see a plan that ties these things together. That's why I have enjoyed reading the posts on this thread. Thanks guys, you give me hope we really are going somewhere! |
| Posted 02-06-2002 11:20
PM by Nemo
Interesting that the Harvard scientist whose writings inspired Liz was named Laura Holt. This name connects with another story of a "deep dark secret," a mystery man, and a woman who was the brains of the partnership.... http://www.thrillingdetective.com/remsteel.html [Edited to add that, like Reggie, I'm glad to hear again from so many old friends.] [ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: Nemo ] |
| Posted 02-07-2002 12:21
AM by Kal-el
I agree with the comparison to Michael's 'out of control' powers. I believe Liz's newfound abilities are going 'out of control' based on her emotional state(I'm actually using this theory as explanation in a fanfic). However, unlike Michael, she wasn't born with those powers, they've just started appearing. She's not used to them yet, as if she suddenly grew another arm and can't control it. I think that, once whe learns to harness her emotions and control them, she'll be able to control her powers just as well. Maybe Kyle giving her that book right before her powers started manifesting(unless you count the plate thing) was a sign of that. To back this up, I'm a frequent comic book reader. In my experience, whenever a character first recieves their powers, they have a hard time controling them. Not as extreme a problem as Liz is, of course, but still need to learn and adjust to it. Another point I wanted to add is something from the Spider-Man comics(where the lead character is also a brunette, who loves science, and is named 'Parker'...coencidance?). Whenever he got emotinally distressed, his strengh levels increased astronomically. This was mostly used whenever the love of his life was in danger/worried about him. [ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: Kal-el ] |
| Posted 02-07-2002 08:24
AM by haniczka
Wow, I feel like I'm at a reunion! How fun! I'm enjoying all of your theories; a feast of food for thought! YEAH! Reggie, interesting point about Liz using powers that have been previously associated with the male/physical alien. I can think of an exception, however. Do you remember when Max told Is. that she had to stay in Roswell, and could not leave for college? She threw him by the locker with an arm gesture. Also, if it wasn't a mind-warp, Tess barbecued the Skins at the end of MITC. So emotional female aliens can use force. And who knows where the limit will be for humans with special alien talents that are currently unrefined. Meta, I'm glad they've continued to develop a solid friendship between Kyle and Liz. I love that they need each other. Anyone wonder if Kyle will in fact, develop powers? Did there have to be a spiritual connection for it to happen, or is it just as Ava said: if you bring someone back, they're changed... Okay, time to go digest some more... -HH |
Posted 02-07-2002 09:35
AM by StephStephSteph
quote: ITA! I couldn't help but wonder why fire.. why electricity? Why "that spark" instead of something more subtle like simple hallucinations (as if hallucinations could be simple )? It definitely brought me back to "the fireball" in Harvest.. tying everything together so neatly? Maybe it was a way to lead into the whole T /Max thing and Liz's true feelings? OK, not sure if my thoughts are even coming across correctly here - is this making any sense?
quote: I think so! Heck, there has to be SOME connection between FM talking about Liz allowing herself to change and her changing, right? You'd think so!
quote: I totally thought that! When she was standing in the garage with Kyle with her hand over the radio? It just reminded me of a few "flubs" from Season 1 with Mikey G! He was simply underdeveloped, but seemed to eventually be able to get them under control - at least a little. Maybe Liz is just trying to figure out how to work them.. can't says I blaim her. Not sure how'd *I* would react if I could all of a sudden blow up stuff. YAY! I love havign stuff to talk about! |
| Posted 02-07-2002 09:44
AM by Zero
I'm off to start a new thread - so PLEASE take all future posts over to Thread #57!! Thanks! Zero |