Yeah, I must say Shapeshifter hit a bit of a sore spot there. I have an irrational love for the guy that goes back to MitC and I can't explain it, but I love that little alien! But yeah, I agree with you, I would normally suspect most anyone who tells the podsters stuff, but with Larek I am totally irrational, so of course I don't!

However, the one sane square inch of my brain actually thinks it would be cool if Larek didn't give them very accurate information, as long as someone does. Perhaps another Micheal-worshipper? I could totally see that. I could see a definate "good members of the kindred/Micheal worshippers" parallel there.

Happy new thread!

Aphid, sorry I touched a nerve with my hit 'n' run post. I didn't mean Larek was evil, rather that he/Brody was possessed much like the kind, gentle members of the C.C. were. Of course there were some members of the C.C. who got violent, but I don't think they were evil--just mislead.

older_Candyfan,
No royal 4, but either book Nicholas or Trevor could represent an alternate leader within the pod squad; they were both alternative leader-types.

P.S., Aphid, your avatar looks much better now, and kind of like pods that have heart beats.

Here's what I had in mind about Nikolas and the bounty hunters. Nikolas had been using the Stone, although not for his whole life, because it would have taken him years to figure out what he was and what the Stone was. Every time he used the Stone, the bounty hunters got closer to targeting where it was. If Nikolas hadn't been killed, the bounty hunters would have found him. The Stone was passed to Maria at the time when the bounty hunters only needed a few more uses of the Stone to find its exact location.

As for Ray and why the consciousness didn't open a wormhole for him, in my mind it was all about the Stone. The consciousness opened a hole for Alex so they could send back the second Stone. If there hadn't been a use for Alex in getting the Stone back, then I don't think they'd ever have sent him back.

Shapeshifter, it's getting blurry to me when I turned in all the Roswell High books. (I'm now on books five of a new series, and the due dates have started to run together). I know 1-7 were done before the pilot aired--they were actually finished by the spring/early summer of 1999. Six and seven were published much later than the first five, because the publisher decided to relaunch the book series with the TV covers. Then during the summer I took a break from the series and wrote two Sweet Sixteen books. I think I turned in book #8 around the time the show launched, then book #9 in the winter, and #10 early in 2000. Sorry not to be more specific. I wrote the books on a different computer, which is currently being repaired or I could be more exact.

Bye for now.

Melinda

Old_candyfan - The whole Destiny storyline does seem the most obvious difference between the books and show. In the books, the kids were just typical, run-of-the-mill aliens who had the misfortune to get stuck here on earth. If not for the Stone of Midnight, I wonder if the home planet aliens would have ever even really given them any notice.

Melinda - Thanks again for answering my questions. It's very calming to my overactive mind to know the true answers to these mysteries. Now that you mention it, the bounty hunters did zero in on Maria quickly. I just figured that they were fast workers, but your explanation (besides being correct, obviously) works better than mine. And poor Alex. They would have left him stuck there on the home planet? Poor guy. Yep, a trip to Sweden is looking better and better all the time. Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.

Melinda - Of course! That makes sense as to why Nikolas didn't get killed (and so much simpler than the Prince theory.. ).

Also thanks for the Confirmation on why Ray was not sent back through the wormhole. Poor guy. OTOH, I can kinda see the point of the CC. I think it's a rather large breach of whatever prime directive equivelant exists for our aliens to have that stone out there where anyone (like Maria) could pick it up and use it. Not good at all.

Thanks for dropping in!

Anla - I remember your first post and it was right after I started the thread up and wasn't so sure the FF folks were going to let me keep it. Gotta love that you stuck around! *hug*

I too think that Micheal would never betray Max, but I do think that he might have thoughts that Max is not doing the right thing and might find himself at odds with Max (kind of like how he was over Trevor). But when push comes to shove Max and Micheal will always be there for each other, if we know nothing else, we know that!

Actually the red star made me think that perhaps that is how this planet got two races of beings on it. One race was living in the system with the dying star and decided that they needed to colonize a new planet, but didn't pick one that was uninhabited. Yup, I am with you on the name thing, but then again I am just scared to death that the answer will be Antar. *shudder* So I guess I can wait for that particular question to be answered.....

Lunch is over, so see y'all later!

I've always had ethical problems with the whole alien possession thing (much as Max did at first, although he seems to have pretty much gotten over it). You're right - where does Brody go while his body is being borrowed? I mean, Michael got yelled at by everybody when he borrowed Maria's car without permission, yet everyone's okay with Larek borrowing Brody's body without permission. I guess it's a case of practicality winning out. They need to contact the home planet somehow, so they ignore what it's doing to poor Brody. I hope they either stop using him as a transmitter or let him in on it and give him some say in the matter. He might be agreeable to it, since Max did save his daughter's life and everything, but I think he should have a choice. That way, I can feel better about his possession and you can still have Larek on your screen.

I would love to have to see Michael dealing with a real problem with Max's leadership, like in the books with Trevor. Not the nonsense we saw at the start of this season, mind you, but a legitimate difference of opinion. Of course, they will always be there for each other in the end, but I want to see them have to deal more with the moral issues of their fight. It would add some complexity to the story.

Phaze - Yes, I noticed the Dupris/Laurie Dupree name similarity. I'm still not totally convinced that her aunt and uncle aren't evil aliens who are going to pop up again. Although, I have finally decided to give Laurie the benefit of the doubt and accept her as the sweet, although slightly unstable individual she seems to be.

Anla - Thanks for the compliments on the avatar. I think I'm keeping it this way for a bit. That's what I had in mind when I designed the thing, it just took some time to get it there.

I think you are right about the practicality of the situation winning out. I think that if they had not been so desperate for information at the moment Isabel suggested it, they might have taken some time to think about it and had some problems with it. I also think that (health risks to Brody aside) I have less problems with short information sessions than with summits or covert operations that take days on end. You know? I mean if you are going to steal a bit of a person's life, well make it short.

Plus I really do wonder what happens to Brody's soul. I think that if it just stayed submerged in his own body, there is no way that his recovered memory therapy would bring back such odd images as walls and burnt hair. I would think they would be way more mundane (like him driving his car through the northeast or something). Perhaps the walls and hair are part of something that they both experienced, but I would like to think that perhaps he is being entertained on Larek's planet, but has his memory wiped each time. But perhaps that's just to make me feel better about Larek...

Either way, I think that in this instance, the CC at least does have a little better leg to stand on in that at least the subject gets to share in the experiences of his body. Even if that was not a very pleasant experience for Robot Max.

I am glad that you agree about how interesting it would be for Max and Micheal to have a genuine difference of opinion on ethical matters involving the situation at home. I think the way TPTB could get us out of that situation would be for another clue to the situation to fall into thier lap which helps bring them together on the issue in the end. Yeah, it would be a really interesting storyline for us to explore.

BTW... what is a podfather supporter? That sounds sorta cool.

Speaking of VLV, Isabel's line about how she was looking for a good-looking guy to chew up and spit out reminded me of Book Isabel's attitude towards human males. Before opening up to humans and getting to know Alex in particular, Isabel just used and manipulated guys as her defensive mechanism. It was a way to protect herself from the humans around her, since Book Isabel basically lived her life in a semi-terrified state. Now TV Isabel has been using superficial relationships with men as a way of protecting herself from her past as Vilandra and as a way of keeping her emotional distance. First, that whole icky thing with Grant, then Dave at the wedding. At least she realized what she was doing on some level and came back to the group in time for the dinner (and some dancing with Alex). Maybe she'll be ready for a more meaningful relationship (with Alex hopefully) at some point before the end of the season.

Oh, and I'm looking forward to reading the summary of our Part 1 discussions.

Hey Melinda, thanks for posting I love getting answers to these lingering questions. If you ever lurk around again, I don't suppose you'd mind explaining why Max was so robotic after he joined the consciousness, but Ray always seemed fine. I reread the books recently , and that really niggled at me.

Anla, there is no such thing as being irrationally attached to Michael.

Let me add my support to having a REAL conflict of loyalty for Michael someday. The Trevor plotline was great -- you could see the drama in Michael's choice, and it gave him the opportunity to demonstrate the loyalty that we know is the basis for his character. The reason why people got so tired of the Michael-Max hostility this year is because there was simply no reason for it other than their taking their frustration out on each other, and why the Kyle-Max tension was always so much more compelling. Conflict without purpose or depth is just testosterone.

That said, we all know what Michael will choose in the end I love my boy!

Will catch up on post-reading later.

Actually, Melinda explained why Ray was okay, but Max virtually catatonic back on the last thread. I think it was on the second to last page. She did a much better job of explaining it than I possibly could recap.

I must admit that I think Book Isabel's "men as kleenex" attitude does not seem (to me) to be a coping device like it is for TV Isabel. I tend to agree with what Roswellian said in the last thread: that Book Isabel really feels entitled to have men treat her as the center of their world but she does not return the favor. OTOH, TV Isabel's attitude is just a facade and she doesn't really feel that way on the inside.

Well I finally got the summary of the discussions up. I just covered the basics (believe it or not) so I don't think that next thread's summary should have too much to add (or at least I hope not! ).

Roswellian - Welcome to part 2! I didn't include the CHAD-like discussions in the intro. It was already really long, so I just stopped at the thematic ones since CHADs are not really the focus of this thread. However Anla is right, Melinda did answer that question on page 10 of the last thread and this is what she said:

quote:Melinda did say:
My explanation for why the consciousness took control of Max but not Ray is basically the same as Anla's. Max was the first being connected to the consciousness to see the lost Stone of Midnight. I never thought of the consiousness as routinely controlling the living beings connected to it. (I never thought of the consciousness as necessarily all evil either. In a lot of ways I think it could be amazing to be connected to the consciousness, except for the potential abuse of power.) But the Stone was of such vital importance, that the overwhelming number of beings that made up the consciousness would do anything to get it back, including taking over Max and even trying to use him to kill. If Ray had seen the Stone first (or if he'd managed to recover the Stone), I think the consciousness would have taken him over too, if he resisted returning it.

I am glad to see that you are also in favor of real Micheal/Max conflict. I think you are totally right that the realness of the conflict is why the Max/Kyle tension was so much more interesting. Real substance is good!

Well folks, I need to sleep now, man that intro took longer than I thought!

Night!

Also in Balance, watching it these lines seemed to imply that originally they had intended to make Milton an alien like Ray--that he knew about them and was covering it up: quote:ALEX (out loud): Well, what if this could help you find your planet?
(Everyone becomes silent and shifts their heads to look at Alex. Milton walks over to Alex)
MILTON (to Alex): What did you just say?

MILTON (to Isabel): Evans' sister, right?
ISABEL: Yeah.
MILTON: I don't appreciate your attempt at humor, young man. We UFOlogists don't joke about things like that.

shapeshifter - Max got sick with his akino in Book 4 The Watcher, although he passes out at the very end of Book 3 The Seeker (gotta love those suspenseful endings ).

In the TV show it is Liz who brings it up, but in the books it is Max. It makes me wonder if it had been Micheal going through the akino, if Max would have thought of that at all. After all, Max in both the show and the books seems to be pretty good at denial.

Good catch also about the scene with Milton. It really does seem like they are leaving things open for Milton to be an alien. He sure does seem to make that connection to Max really quickly and it can't be family resemblence.

Anla - Yeah I came this close to not including that part, except for the fact that Book Micheal refers to it as just that "breaking his heart". Or getting stomped on or something similar. I don't think that that means he loved her more than he loves Maria, because he comes to realize that in #10. He tries to get over Maria like he got over Cameron and it fails miserably because he loves Maria with much deeper roots. But until he realizes how much he loves Maria, he does think that he loves Cameron and Cameron really does hurt him. I think that is a major difference between her and Courtney. Micheal never loved Courtney at all, in fact I don't think that Micheal was ever really attracted to her, I think Roswellian has managed to convince me that he kissed her to grab that piece of skin. Cause really, that is the best way to explain his actions later. TV Micheal is sad that Courtney is dying, but not heartbroken. You can see it in his eyes.

Okay enough rambling for me, I gotta get to work....
Cheers!

I would like to see Milton come back. Besides the fact that I really liked him and found him hilarious, they never really explained his sudden disappearance to my satisfaction (yet another dangling question from Season 1 ). Although I'm not sure I would want to see him as an alien. I always enjoyed the irony of his standing right there with Max, talking about how he had spent his whole life looking and trying to have a close encounter with an alien. Still, if he's like Ray, he might have just been joking and getting a kick out of all those talks.

Shapeshifter - Awwwww! Poor Milton! That woud not reflect well on Larek to allow that. But yes, I think you are right, I think there is a definate connection between Ray and Larek/Brody. I almost feel that Larek is the one Ray is like since, if he had anything to do with getting Brody to move to Roswell, he could also have been positioning himself to watch over the podsters, you know? Good catch!

Night folks!

Aphid - I could also accept the idea of Milton and Brody making a deal. I would just like some more explanation on Milton's disappearance. Sigh. That's the one bad thing about tv shows versus books - you can't sneak a peak at the last page to see what happens. Still, the "Whatever happened to Milton?" question is low on my list of unanswered Roswell questions, so I'm not overly worried about it.

I like your idea of the Ray/Larek connection. It seems awfully convenient that the only alien claiming to be friendly and give them information without trying to kill them should just happen to use the body of the King's boss (okay, just had another Elvis moment ). Coincidence? I think not.

See you later with more brilliant insights... or you know, rambling. Whatever.

Cheers!

I would really enjoy seeing Brody and Max dressing up as Elvis for work at the UFO Center. That might surpass even Officer Whitman's dance at Isabel's party.

I just rewatched Wipe Out in preparation for Monday's Hiatus Campaign posting, and noticed how Nicholas has "all the powers" of the podsters "times a thousand." Sounds like Ilsevan Dupris.

Excellent point, shapeshifter. Nicholas does seem to be as strong comparatively as Dupris. But Dupris was the same species as the Pod Squad, so the similarities in their powers made sense. I just don't understand why Nicholas's powers are the same as the Pod Squad, when he's a Skin, and their powers are supposed to be human powers, only evolved. That still confuses me.

Dupris was more powerful than the kids because he had been born on the home planet (I remember Ray wasn't sure how their powers would work and whether they could survive the akino because they had been born on earth), plus he had all those years of practice. I wonder how his strength would have compared with Ray, if they had ever had a show-down.

Maybe someone can answer me a question: is book Nr. 10 the last one, for I had the feeling "The Salvation" kind of ended the whole story. Or is the author still writing?

I'd love to hear from you.

Also with Courtney from the tv show she's kind of like Cameron from the books.

In the Books the cave is a crack in the desert floor on the tv show the cave is an opening in a cliff.

Kristen

UpBeatBabe - Yes, Alex certainly has a different attitude since returning to Roswell (both of them), although I suspect TV Alex had more fun on his "vacation". I don't think anyone has mentioned the differences in the caves, though. That's a detail I missed.

I have a link to the last Compare & Contrast Thread at http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/index.html

You know, the scary thing is, that would make sense. Plus, it would explain all the mysterious caveman paintings of alien-like creatures which keep being mentioned in other sci fi shows, and those crop circles in the shapes of animals, but you can only see it if you're looking at them from the sky.... Hmmm. Again, just a fictional theory - not one which I expect the show to go with. Wasn't that the basis of the Battlestar Galactica show? That earth was once settled by a tribe of humans from another planet? Been awhile since I've seen that show.

Or there's the other popular theory in sci fi that alien visitors are from the future. That would also tie in with their powers being human. I suspect, however, that something got misrepresented or was mistaken along the way (plus, Nasedo might not be the most dependable source of information in the world ). Wow, things were simpler for the kids in the books, weren't they?

I admit that over the hiatus I've reread a couple of the books, and one thing that struck me, which I know we've discussed before, is how much more central the humans in the book are to the mythology. But what I was thinking about is how ironic this is. In the books, the Podsters are full aliens, who just crash landed by accident. In the show, the aliens made the Podsters human deliberately, and sent them here to fulfill this grand destiny. You would think this would make the humans MORE essential to the alien mythology somehow, since there's got to be some reason to put the alien royalty in human form. But so far we've seen little sign of a group connection or anything that would indicate what the human role should be. Just a thought that struck me as I yet again wished the show would incorporate the humans as essential characters on the show.

Also Michael is far nicer in the books especially towards Maria but I think we wouldn't get their intense chemistry or fast paced dialogue if Michael was the same on screen. Although I have to say that it's sweet in the books that Michael and Maria hang out all the time and considers her as a best friend. Aaaawwwwwww shucks!!

I have to the agree with The Roswellian on the issue of the humans importance. In the books they are much more highlighted in their importance to the aliens!!

My absolute favorite thing about the books is the theme of friendship and love. The books so strongly bring home the message of it being "them against the world", the them being all seven of the teens, human and alien. I hadn't had that feeling from the show since the quarry scene in Crazy, until the Hybrid Chronicles and VLV. The show seems to be getting more in touch with the friendship aspects of the books (at least, I hope). I could so see the book kids getting all dressed up and posing for a group picture. For awhile, the show was more "us against us" with all the secrets and in-fighting. Hope that's gone. And my favorite scenes in the books were always the ones where they formed the connection. I wonder if the reason why that doesn't happen in the show is simply because it's all mental and emotional, so it would be hard to show on television.

Oh, by the way, I started reading that fan fic you recommended. I've read the first 3 parts, and I'm loving it! Jealous Michael. Thanks for pointing me in that direction.

bubbles - I know what you mean about Adam seeming more dangerous than the rest of the Pod Squad. When we first met him, I was suspicious. Then he fried Valenti and tried to do the same to Max, and I was very nervous about him. I came to really like him, though. In fact, I think he probably became one of my favorites, after Michael and Maria.

What's interesting is that Adam was dangerous because his control of his powers was better than the others had. But in the show, Tess is at her most dangerous when her control is at its least. She does her Firewalker routine on the Skins and later claims that it was an accident, that she just lost control and doesn't know how it happened. If we believe her (and at this point I am prepared to do that), then we have to wonder what other powers the Pod Squad has that they just haven't learned how to utilize yet.

EmeliAngel - Tess does claim to have memories from the home planet. What bothers me, then, is why on earth she isn't sharing this information with the others (and us). This is one of my biggest problems - why don't they ask more questions of the aliens they meet? Why can't they find out at least the name of their planet? (sorry, but that really does bug me ) That's a big difference from the books and the show. In the books, when they find out Ray is an alien, Michael and Max directly go to him for a question-and-answer session. Hopefully, at some point, they'll ask Tess more about her memories of their planet.

Jinx-it - I actually was able to picture all the book characters as they are described, except for Max. I finally gave up. I simply can not picture Max as anyone other than Jason Behr.

Michael and Maria are both much more innocent in the books. Their relationship lacks that sense of urgency and intensity that it has in the show. I suspect that's because TV Michael and Maria have both lost so much in their lives than they are both scared to death of a relationship and desperate to hold on to it, both at the same times. Michael in the books didn't have things quite as bad as TV Michael, although he's still fairly guarded about his emotions.

Gidget*FL - Well disorganized or no, any Roswell fan is welcome here, so welcome! I have liked your posts over on the CHADs thread, so I look foreward to more of the same here. That's right young lady, you'd better post up to your potential! Well unless I have totally scared you off yet. Anyway, the whole thing you asked about was already answered, so I'll stop babbling after I say, yeah, sometimes I get the books and the show mixed up too. I even called Sean Adam in the CHADs thread! But Roswellian caught it and translated for me..... :sigh: Well what can ya say, ya know?

Shapeshifter - Wow, good catch! Yeah, that mega power thing does make Nicholas sound like Elsevan DuPris. After all, he seems to have been way more powerful than the podsters even before he got the stone.

I do like how the podsters in the book were only able to defeat him when they combined their powers. I am soooo waiting for that to be the answer to finishing off Nicholas for good (yep, I totally think he's coming back, he's too good a villian not too!). After all, we did get a little hint of that in Wipeout when Tess helped Max keep his jello shield up longer than he would have been able to alone. Hmmm... I wonder if Liz could help him keep it up? Okay, just totally had to say that because I am punch drunk from lack of sleep and my mind is totally in the gutter!

OTOH, that is a good point. I really would like the changed humans to have perhaps not powers of their own, but the ability to magnify the powers of the podsters.... co-operation is good!

Anla - Yeah, the similarity of Nicholas' powers and the Podsters powers was debated in the CHADs thread. The thing that bugged us the most was the fact that the powers were supposedly human in origin, so why in creation would the skins have them if they do not have human bodies? For that matter, why would Nascedo have them? He doesn't have a human body. Oh yeah, and why do the Special Unit folks know anything about them since the alien that they experimented on for three years also didn't have a human body! Grr.... I don't remember any of the solutions for the latter questions, but I do remember the one for Nicholas.

The solution that I liked the best for Nicholas was that perhaps the husks are genetically similar to human physiology and because of that, the skins had figured out how to genetically manipulate the husks to get really strong human-based powers. In this theory, Nicholas would only have these powers on Earth, but it is totally reasonable to assume that Courtney has witnessed Nicholas using his powers on earth during the last 50 years, so I don't have a problem with that part...

Hey bubbles! Welcome to the thread! Of course you can join, we don't even have a membership fee and you gotta like that! Please ramble away, you can see that I have no inhibitions about doing so myself so I respect a person who makes rambling the art form I so aspire to make it myself. Was that good enough? No? Well next time I'll try harder....

Hi Melanie0802! - Welcome to the thread!
I feel for you folks that are behind us in episodes, but I am also a little jealous, you have yet to see some of my favorite episodes of all time. Though I must admit that Blood Brothers is definately in the top 5. Keep an eye out for Blind Date (my favorite of all time) that should be about 6 episodes after Blood Brothers (Blood Brothers is #7 and Blind Date is #13). You will know it because it's the one with the radio contest in it. But I digress...

Yep, as Shapeshifter pointed out, we do get some parental concern in season 2, but they also generally get away with bloody murder (yes, shapeshifter also pointed this out as well)! Well this is TV after all. As for whether #10 is the last one, yes it is. There is a fan fiction of a #11, but it is not written or endorsed by Melinda Metz (the author of the series), so it's not really an extension of the series. The link was in the last thread, and I'll dig it out in a minute... okay the link to the other thread is not working and even when I search for it, I can't get the other thread to come up.... Roswellian or anyone who knows it, can you repost the link?

Yes Melinda Metz is still writing. She mentioned that she was in the midst of writing another series, but she didn't mention what it was. She has written a few "Sweet Sixteen" books (a series of her own making I think) as well as (according to Amazon.com) some books in a few other series (Goosbumps and the New Adventures of Mary and Kate Ashley) geared at young adults.

Basically, I must admit that I would never have read the books if I didn't watch the show and like the characters so much. And as such, I have not read any of her other books. Though I must admit that I have heard good things about the Goosebumps series.

I had not heard about the TV show based series that Anla talked about, but I am kinda with her on that one, I am never really impressed with that kinda thing, but then again I am not really much of a fan fic girl either....

Welcome UpBeatBabe975! - Welcome to the thread.!
Good point about the cave. The book cave lacks the magical pod power opening technique, but it seems to be rather well hidden anyway. It is also different because the original three have known about the cave for a large portion of their lives and use it as a kinda home base away from home, but there really isn't an equivelent to that in the TV show because they didn't know about it until they met Tess. When they need to be alone they went off to the desert in season 1, but I am not sure it was the same place each time, and even if it was, it was hardly a place they could claim as totally thiers, you know?

Anyway, I am also struck by the fact that the book podsters had been combing the desert for their whole lives looking for peices of the wreakage, or the ship, or some clues to their existance, but the TV podsters did not. I guess it has something to do with the fact that apparently the TV podsters need more than 2 hours of sleep a night ( based solely on the amount of times Micheal has climbed into Max's window awakening him from a dead sleep! ). But still, an interesting contrast nonetheless...

Shapeshifter - I do like the idea that the shapeshifting race seeded earth with it's own kind and that that is why Nascedo has the powers that humans have. That would make total sense because Nascedo would literally be an evolved human! That kinda works for me...

Roswellian - Good point! That kinda gives me hope that perhaps the humans will be able to help the podsters in the TV show more than they have in the past. I would really like to think that the reason that the royal four were put into human form is that humans are an important race of creatures to them and perhaps even a distant relation.... (yep, liking Shapeshifter's theory more and more ). Yep, with all the human and changed humans around there, I would really like to see the TV folks find that connecting with humans helps them use their powers more effectively. I think a while back on the CHADs thread someone noted that Micheal could see the door in Atherton's dome only when Maria encouraged him to concentrate on the key and was at his side while doing it. Perhaps, in some way, Maria was actually helping him channel his power and see the flash, kinda like book Maria was able to calm him down talking about Lavender until he was able to focus enough to do that first thing (oh gosh I forget what it was the first time - was it dreamwalking Isabel?) and then later the memory of that helps him dreamwalk Trevor when his mind is too scattered with worry for Isabel as she went through the Akino.

Bubbles! - I agree that Courtney and Cameron had some major differences, but they also have some undeinable similarities. Still, the differences are rather significant and you touched on a big one.

As for Adam and Tess. Well I must admit that I always loved Adam from the get go, but I can totally see where you are coming from by expecting Adam to be evil. Then again, I loved Tess from the get go as well and many folks didn't like her at all and many others totally saw her as evil. So in a way, that's a simliarity there! I also think it is a similarity that both Tess and Adam were raised to use thier powers and seem much more adept at using them than either of the other podsquad members. So bascially, I see lots of similarities in Adam and Tess, but there are some glaring differences as well, of course, the least of which is that Adam is a boy and Tess is a girl! :giggle: Okay, I totally need sleep, can we tell?

Welcome EmeliAngel! - Glad you joined us! Yep, we have covered just about everything on the sun and we did get to that one, but that is a really important difference. It seems that on the TV show as if they were engineered to need each other (from FMax's statements in TEOTW), whereas in the books they just are like that because they are like that. They can all do everything equally well, once they practice long enough (hence Nikolas and Adam being better).

Hi there Jinx-it! - Welcome to the thread!
Yep, Max especially looks really different in the books. However I did notice one similarity. In either the pilot or the Morning After, Liz mentions that Max has unearthly eyes, just like Liz talks about in the books. I think that this was probably taken from the books purposefully and I like that consistancy. In fact, I like to think that it is that unearthly and intense stare that got Jason the part in the first place and perhaps that is why they cast someone who was not blond and blue-eyed. Because Jason was right for the part no matter what the color of his eyes and hair were. You know what I mean? I could definately see someone saying that everyone should know he is an alien because his eyes give it away... he just exudes that unearthliness. Okay, enough gushing, but you see what I mean. I don't think that TPTB intentionally set out to change Max's look, it just sorta happened in casting.... But I have no inside knowledge to support this, so I could be totally wrong.

Anla - Yep, I have to agree about the first viewing syndrome. I am way too caught up in the newness of the episode and the sheer enjoyment of it all to really focus on CHADs or book comparisons unless they just scream at me. It takes a good 2 or 3 viewings before I am really fit to discuss on the web, you know? Yes I just said that and I think it officially qualifies me as a total loser, but there you have it!

ICAM with the sincere and ferverent hope that TPTB are going back to a more book-like "us against them" theme as opposed to the "us against us" thing they have been into lately. I really enjoy how much the podsters trust and need each other and I just can't get enough of it! Nope, I don't think I can think of a single senario when I would get sick of it, for conflict there is always the FBI or the aliens. That's their job!

Good point about Tess being at her strongest when she is totally out of control of her powers. In a way, I think that that is also kind of a similarity with Adam, because he was darn strong when Elsevan was controlling him and busted Valenti. On the other point, I, like you, also wonder if the other podsters will find (in a moment of crisis) that they too have adrenaline-induced powers that are incredibly powerful. In a way, I think that would be cool, even though part of me was really dissappointed at the whole "easy way out" that that provided the TPTB regarding the whole Skins mess (and the dupes mess later). I like the idea as an idea, but I think it could lead to some really anticlimatic and sorta disappointing show endings....

On a realated note, I must admit that a fantasy of mine is that Kyle's power (from the change) will be to be able to help Tess keep her mind during the whole firewalker thing and control it while she is connected to him. Wouldn't that be awsome? I know I have probably said that here before, but it bears repeating because I love that theory that much!

ITA about being able to picture all of the book characters more or less as discribed except for Max. Yep, Jason's look = Max and there just is no replacing it for me. :shrug: But I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing....

Good analysis of the differences between the M&M relationship in the books as opposed to the show and why. I think you are totally right. Both M&M on the show seem more emotionally scarred than in the books and thus I could see how their relationship might be a little more rocky as a result.

EmeliAngel - Yep, ITA about Ray and Nascedo. You are right that Nascedo appears to have little to no human feelings, whereas Ray is simply overflowing with them. Ray misses his home and misses the people who were on the ship and he really seems to like and be amused by humans. OTOH, Nascedo doesn't get attached to humans at all and doesn't even mind the prospect of having to kill CWW (who he sorta seemed to like) even when he thought she was simply a human that knew too much. I also have the feeling that Nascedo may not even really miss his home. Yes he does everything with the objective in mind that they will eventually go back (according to Tess), but we never hear him or Tess mention that he misses home or wishes he could be back there. It is almost like his job is what it is and he will get on doing it no matter where he happens to be. Rather robot like IMHO.

Well folks, that is all for me. I gotta get some sleep!
Night all!

What I noticed about that "combining powers" thing in Harvest, was that it took Tess quite some time to come up with the idea of adding her powers to Max's to protect them from the Skins. I would like to see all of them combine their powers, but they have to think of the idea first. In the books, it's so natural for them, almost instinctive, because they have that trust and love and they're used to working together. Of course, their first combination of auras wasn't as easy for them - some of them were scared silly , but after that, no problem. Maybe (fingers crossed) they'll reach that level of comfort and trust in the show.

Oh, yeah, Maria helped Michael dreamwalk with her "lavender talk" when he was trying to dreamwalk Isabel and find out where DuPris had her. That would have been book 6, I think, The Stowaway.

I thought I'd clear up any confusion about my other books, although this is sort of off topic. I didn't write a Goosebumps book (although I was one of R.L. Stine's editors for a while, mainly on the Fear Street books). What I wrote was a novelization of an episode of the Goosebumps TV show (an episode that was already based on a book). That was my auspicious launch as a writer.

The Sweet Sixteen series wasn't of my own making. It was a six book series where each book took place at a sweet sixteen party. Different authors wrote the books. I wrote the first and last.

My new series, Fingerprints, about a girl who can touch a fingerprint and know the thoughts the person who left the print was having when they left it, is starting up in April. The first two books will come out around the 10th, then there will be a book every other month after that. So far, I'm signed up to write 7.

Just because I get asked this a lot, let me say again that the decision to stop the Roswell High series at book #10 was the publisher's. But they are starting up a series of novelizations based on the show. The first one is due out in May.

Bye for now.

Melinda

You are totally right about them having to think about it and then trust each other before we can see them combining powers. OTOH, in the books I think we heard from several couples (Max/Liz and Iz/Alex) that it was easier to work together in a crisis than it was to be together romantically. It just was less complicated. I think that in many ways the trust comes first and we are almost to that point on the show. With the possible exception of Kyle (and maybe Max with Kyle, but he's getting better), I think that just about all eight of them would willingly trust their lives to the others in the group. Anyway, perhaps I am just doing some wishful thinking, but I think that they are almost ready for the idea of a book-like combination of powers and I would love to see it by the end of the season. Well, here's to hoping!

Oh, thanks for the reminder about the lavender talk in book 6. Yep, I had it right I guess I just didn't trust myself.

Melinda - Thanks for the clarification on the other stuff you have written and are writing currently. FIngerprints! I think I knew that somewhere in the back of my mind... whoops! Well, ya just can't beat getting it from the source.

Too bad about the decision not to continue being your publishers' and not yours, but then again, I guess it's good to move on to new characters than to write about the same ones over and over (I would think that could get really dull after a while).

See y'all later!

Aphid - True, it's easier for them to work together in the books than to try to keep a romance going (in particular, Alex and Isabel find it simpler to deal with each other in the connection because they're dealing with their true selves without any romantic complications). In the show, we've seen how well they have finally learned to work together - even Liz and Tess agreed and hugged when they saved the world from the evil flying jellyfish and her dastardly crystals. But they couldn't manage to get along while playing pin-ball. So they're all coming along, but it'll take time. At least they're trying now, and learning how to communicate. These are very good things.

The link to the fic of book #11 is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopFanFiction/message/1843

The link to shapeshifter's archive of the first compare and contrast thread is:
http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/CompareNContrastTVnBooks.htm

The link to shapshifter's main fan forum archive index (which is darn impressive if I do say) is:
http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/index.html

Okay that's it. BTW, Shapeshifter, since it is gone from the forum pages, I think I am going to change the link in the intro so that it points to your archive of the compare and contrast part 1. Is that okay? If not, just tell me here or PM me and I'll take it out.

Thanks! See yas later...

I really want some new episodes so that we can do some more comparisons.

[One of my shortest posts ever, and I still need to go back and edit it. Sheesh. ]

Did we discuss how much Grant was like book Nicholas? Much more than TV Nicholas.

P.S. Aphid, of course you may link to the first thread. I only wish I hadn't lost some of the earlier stuff , but I think we have probably recovered most of it.

Melinda - Glad you are enjoying your new series. Yep, and I agree with Anla, I liked the ending. Endings always seem to be the hardest things to write, once you finish up the plotline just stopping there always seems abrupt, but then what else do you say? I think it was handled well, I love the sort of connection thing at the end, it sort of brought us all full circle to the first book.

Shapeshifter - Thanks for the official permission to link to your site. Yeah, I think the first part is gone. I guess the order in which closed threads dissappear has to do with the order in which they were started, not the order in which they were closed. Ah well. I am just happy that you thought to archive it at all!

As for Grant and Nikolas? Nope I don't think we ever did. Hmm.... I don't really have much on that one except that Isabel did seem to have a connection to them both rather instantly and they both died before she broke up with them, but they both were actually wrong for her anyway. Oh yeah, and she was really the only one who liked them much anyway. Okay, so that actually is quite a lot isn't it? What do you think about what they have in common? Do you think that says something about how Isabel is alike or different in the books as opposed to the series?

shapeshifter - Hmm, ways that Grant is similar to Book Nikolas. Let's see. Both are total jerks whose disappearance from Roswell forever was something that I was rooting for practically since the moment they arrived (not sure that's what you meant, though ). Both were shot and killed - although Grant's death was pure self-defense, while Nikolas's wasn't. We can assume that both deaths were covered up by the law enforcement agents, although neither was explained to us. Isabel ends up involved with both, completely ignoring the wonderful and terrific Alex (I just love Alex, don't you all? I want him to be happy. Okay, back to Grant and Nikolas). In both cases, Michael and Max distrust them from the start. A difference would be that Max decides to trust Grant against his better judgment (or rather, to trust Isabel trusting Grant), while in the books, they never do trust Nikolas. Both Grant and Nikolas physically attack members of the Pod Squad. Nikolas does this on his own, while Grant does it while under the control of the Giant Flying Jellyfish.

A difference might be what Isabel sees the two men as representing. For book Isabel, Nikolas represents her alien side. He gives her excitement and permission to use her powers in any way which she pleases. Nikolas keeps encouraging her to view humans as a lesser lifeform and to use her powers against them. For TV Isabel, Grant represents her human half. He's normal and safe, (and boring - come on, even she admits it ) and has (she thinks) absolutely no connection to their alien lives. She can just be a normal girl while she's with him.

Nikolas is in control of his relationship with Book Isabel. She constantly wonders why she's so worried about what he thinks and why she's going along with what he tells her to do, when she's never done that with any other boy. TV Isabel is in charge of her relationship with Grant. She can manipulate and flirt and get him back, even after dumping him. I very much doubt that Nikolas would have hesitated for a moment to kill Isabel if she got in his way. Grant doesn't want to hurt her, though. I guess that's one good thing about him, and I should give him credit for that (still glad he's gone, though).

That's all I can think of right now.

Aphid - Glad it's not just me. I love your long posts. Unlike me, who just tends to babble, you actually include a lot of information and thoughts. I just can't believe that I still manage to mess up, even on a two sentence post.

Only 2 1/2 weeks to go!

[Sigh - I have to edit again. ]

I was just thinking (sorry if it might have come up already - I can't follow the whole conversation because of the technical problems... ) if anyone noticed the ethnical difference between the show and the books? I don't get why they changed Liz' ethnic background for TV. In the books she is clearly from Latin America, or at least her roots are hispanic. She even has a different last name. I think Shiri does look like she could have a hispanic background herself. So why change it? Any ideas?

Melanie
http://www.meome.de/tratsch

Great observation on the opposite things that the two men represent for Isabel. particularly when it comes to who is in control of the relationship! Yeah, okay on that point Grant was a okay guy, in that he didn't want to manipulate or control Isabel... Man, I still hate the guy actually more than I hate Nikolas! Stupid, but true, there ya have it....

A similarity along that line is that they both kinda represent ways in which Isabel has chosen to rebel against Max. In the books she rebels by embracing her alien powers through Nikolas, while on the TV show she rebels by not confining her social life to people in the "I know an alien club" and by actually engaging in casual dating. In a way, I think Isabel could see it as bowing to Max and Micheal's wishes to date Alex because it would be following the pattern that they have set up (miserable soul-mate relationships with humans in the "I know an alien club").

Shapeshifter - I really like the idea that Riverdog's Nascedo was trying to heal Atherton and not kill him like in the books!

I think that I agree with Anla though on the point that if that is so, I am not so sure that that Riverdog's Nascedo was Tess' Nascedo. For me, the only thing that keeps me from embracing the two Nascedos theory completely is the fact that Tess' Nascedo told her where the healing stones were, and only Riverdog's Nascedo (supposedly) would know where they are. That is, unless the two Nascedos got together and talked after the stones were stashed with Riverdog....

Anla - I think that Liz did see at least one person's maybe both murders when she flashed on Tess' Nascedo when she kissed him thinking he was Max in Max to the Max. She kisses him twice (once in the car and once in the bus before he turns into the clown). I may have to go back and look at those flashes at some point this week and look at exactly who it is she saw him kill. After all, we know the TV podsters can't ask anyone anything to save thier soul! But we love them anyway....

Hi Melanie0802! Welcome to the thread!
I suspect that you are having trouble getting the thread open because of the length of the posts. In particular the opening post. Could you do me a favor? Try to load page one and tell me if you can at least see all of my introductory post. If you can't then I may have to try and figure out how to make it shorter.... It's really going to be no good to folks if they can't load it!

We have gone briefly into the difference in Liz' ethnicity, but nobody really knows why they chose to change it for the TV show. I agree with you that Shiri could have gotten away with playing a hispanic role, but maybe they thought they might get flak for having a non-hispanic playing a hispanic role when there are lots of perfectly good hispanic actors out there.

I think (but have no inside information whatsoever) they proabably chose the actors they wanted, and then made the changes to the characters as that dictated. I could see the meeting where JK says that he wants to use Shiri to play Liz and TPTB saying that if she is not hispanic, then they didn't want to have her trying to play that because of how un-PC that could look for the network. I could totally see that.

Wow, and I thought I disliked Grant! Yeah, even while I can intellectually give Grant credit for not wanting to hurt Isabel, my instinctive response is still "Uck!" Maybe it's just comparing his ickiness with Alex.

I hadn't considered that Grant was a way of rebelling against Max. And Michael, too. Isabel is always the cherished little princess - adored and protected by her two "big brothers", and that protection can be confining (I would imagine especially for TV Isabel, since she's actually older - still trying to figure that one out, but oh well ). Neither Isabel likes being told what to do or who they can see. Both Nikolas and Grant were ways of flat-out defying their orders. (I did enjoy the way that Michael and Max agreed for the first time in months in order to tell Isabel to stay away from Grant. )

Your explanation for the difference in ethnicity makes sense. Does she have a sister in the Show? We just saw "Heatwave" - so we're not really far. Until now, I didn't think she has/had a sister in the show. But I did notice some tensions between her and her mother in "Missing" (I hope that's the episode's name). Like something was standing in between them. Was it just me - or did anyone else notice too?

Melanie

Have you heard that there will be another book out in May? I guess, it'll be a book on the show though. I'm never quite happy with those though...

I'm reading book No. 7 now (Amazon.de didn't send it to me - and I was way too fast reading all of them anyway.)! I might read the last ones over again...

Take care now,

Melanie
http://www.meome.de/tratsch

You just saw heatwave... so does that make you in Germany? I have a friend over there and I think last time I checked with her she was up to Blood Brothers, but that was a bit ago.

Good catch about the tension between Liz and her mom on the show. You can also see in Leaving Normal that her mom and her grandma (her mom's mother in law) have a little tension in thier relationship as well. I really don't know what to make of all that, I guess like Anla I go back and forth on whether it is important. Then again, I think that all parents except Amy and Jim are slowly fading into oblivion, so I think the odds that we ever find out is almost none.

Anla - I must admit that I don't really see Liz's relationship with her father as as bad off as the one with her mother. Yep, in Into The Woods you do see some tension, but you can see that Dad is working on it. You certianly don't see the major split with TV dad as you do with book dad. Yes TV dad worries that he doesn't know enough about Liz's life, but it isn't the blind panic that book dad has.

ICAM that Liz's control issues would be much better explained as a response to a controlling household created by Rosa's death. As it is in the show now, she is simply that way because she is that way. A sorta Monica-esque funny yet compulsive quirk. Either way, I think that it would have been a good thing to keep Liz's sister.

Then again, I think the TV show is trying to distence itself from focusing on the family relationships at all. In the book we saw several different foster situations for Micheal and really saw what they were like for him. We saw Maria with a little brother and Liz's family and we also saw Alex's family and the dynamics there with the whole ROTC thing. On the other hand, in the show we see no family of Alex's at all (except a brief glimpse of nerdy but nice dad in Into the Woods), we have no siblings for Liz or Maria and the parents are kept in the background as much as possible. Even with Micheal, we see almost nothing of his foster situation until, well out of consideration for Melanie I won't go there. But the point is, the home situation with their families is much more important in the books than in the TV show.

Okay, well I think that's it for now. New episodes in less than two weeks! Yay! Oh boy we are almost done waiting... thank goodness.

See yas!

Aphid - Oh, I agree, the tension between Liz and her father in the books is so much more than the tension in the show. But some things bothered me, especially in the Into the Woods episode. Why was he so quick to assume that Liz was into drugs? Yeah, the situation was contrived so that was a possible answer, but he jumped to that conclusion so fast. He's known Maria forever - she's a close family friend, he knows that she's into health stuff and vitamins, yet his first thought is "Maria is selling my daughter drugs"? He doesn't say "Hey, what's going on down there?" No, he slinks back into the background and then proceeds to rummage through her belongings, and only then confronts her. It just doesn't show a whole lot of trust in your daughter. I mean, Liz is the perfect daughter, pretty much, and apparently her parents trust her to run around the state unsupervised without ever wondering where she might be. This reaction seemed extreme. Now, if we had the Rosa storyline, it would make perfect sense.

I'm with you - Less than two weeks to go!

You're absolutely right. I'm from Germany. We are so much behind. But we always are when it comes to Shows. I can't even explain it. I did think that it might be because we synchronise the voices. But other countries that do that too, are so much more far ahead.

Anla: quote:Melanie - I knew that there was going to be a book based on the show, but I didn't know when it was coming out. I usually don't buy books based on tv shows, but I might have to make an exception in this case due to my Roswell obsession.

Maybe you can PM me if it's any good?

I read Book No.7 "The Vanished" yesterday. Boy, do I love the way Melinda Metz writes!

Did you hear that DIDO is getting hitched? I jut read it. Well, can't wait to see her in concert (not long to go anymore)!

Bye now,

Melanie
http://www.meome.de/tratsch

Anyway, I just found that I saw more normalness in Liz's dad's reactions than in Liz's mom's reactions. Plus he seems to be willing to cut her more slack in the whole SH incident and he even seemed to be a little amused by the whole Mariachi Max incident. Despite the fact that it was on a school night.

But yes, I think that his jumping to conclusions so quickly would have been well explained by a Rosa storyline, but I don't really find Liz's Dad's relationship half as suspicious as I do her relationship with her mom. So I guess it's normal by comparison!

Shapeshifter - I think you are right about the expense of the permenant cast, but I also think that it may be an issue of time as well. I think that JK has said something to that effect in an interview. But I'm not totally sure about that. Either way, yeah, ITA about Micheal's apartment being brought into the picture in order to provide the podsters with a place to gather that would be out of the prying eyes of adults and I share Anla's suprise that they don't meet there more often. Things like Kyle's handing over of the blue goo, would have been much more descretely accomplished there! Ah well.

I also think there is a bit of a concious story shift away from the podster's home situations in the TV show and I am not entirely convinced that budget is the reason for it. Though it definately could be.... I like to think that JK simply had a more peer-focused show in mind than the more individual teen story focus of the books. I am not sure I am making any sense, but perhaps that will spark something in someone who is a tad more coherent than I am.

Melanie0802 - Yes, my other friend from Germany complains about being behind other contries constantly too! Fortunately, books are not a problem if you can read english. Any new insights after rereading #7?

Did we ever see Liz's mom in the books? All I remember is that there is some mention that she bakes alien themed cakes. But ITA that the tv Mrs. Parker is very odd. I found their whole relationship weirdly estranged, with no reason seemingly for it, in both LN and in SH. Of course, I also found the way that Liz talked back to her mom to be so bizarre. I wish they had given us some backstory to explain what was up with that.

Grant and Nicholas comparison? I see it. At least, Isabel seems to consistenly go for guys who are bad for her rather than the sweetheart who's in love with her in both the book and the tv show. And in both cases they're gunned down by the cops, leaving poor Isabel all alone.

Later, all!

As for Liz's mom in the books, I do remember her also in the scene where Liz goes back to patch things up with dad and finally get the whole Rosa situation out in the open. Liz's mom does bake and decorate cakes, but also sends Liz out for Vanilla during the whole party at the UFO center thing while Liz is grounded. I got the feeling that she really didn't approve of how severe Liz's punishment was. She also tells Liz where her dad is when Liz goes to get the whole Rosa thing out in the open. I also got the impression that mom was sorta listening to their whole conversation (but I could be imagining that). Either way, dad calls for mom at the end of the conversation and asks her to help him get out pictures of Rosa.

In general I saw Liz's mom in the books as having a good relationship with Liz, but not as close or as volitile as the one Liz had with Dad. It also appeared that Mom was sort of giving in to dad on many of the Rosa issues perhaps because she didn't want to upset him. I had the feeling when he asked her where the photos were that perhaps mom had been asking dad to bring those out for a while now. But that is pure conjecture on my part!
Thanks for dropping in Roswellian!

quote:Originally posted by bubbles!:
So which set of aliens and humans does everyone prefer?

I would love to hear any interesting comparisons you have on the way the podsters appear effects how we perceive them!

OTOH, I really don't want to get into discussing which is better, sorta like what I outlined in the intro to the thread (page 1, post 1). I know that the podsters looks are a small part of the whole, but any "which do you like better" comments are kinda sliding down that path, so I prefer to stay away from them. Thanks!

And I was serious about hearing what you have to say about the differences in the podster's appearance. Do you think that Max as a blonde effects the way you see his character, or is it just that you see Jason whenever you think of Max?

A similarity between the show and books is that while Max is originally the obsessed one in the relationship, once Liz becomes aware of his feelings, she becomes the pursuer, as evidenced in their little speech while Liz is having her slug experiment (you know, we never did things like they do on the show while I was in school ).

I'll let you know if the book is any good - could be a while until I read it though. I'm sure I'll end up buying it. Sigh. I strongly suspect I would buy anything if it was Roswell-related right now. And I'm sure they'll have a picture from the show on the cover, so I'll be a goner.

I love the writing in the books, too. The characters all seem so real. I wish I had friends like that in high school.

When are you going to be seeing Dido? That should be cool.

Aphid - Yes, things with Liz and her mother are just wierd. I always get a wierd feeling after watching them in SH. Her mother is waiting for her as she comes in through the window and starts yelling at her for sneaking out. Good - this is normal behavior. But then Liz starts screaming at her to stop trying to control her. Huh? When has any parent on this show (other than Valenti) tried to control one of the teens? Liz goes running off whenever she wants and needs to in order to help out the aliens. How exactly is her mother controlling her? And then her mother starts apologizing (for what, woman? Your underage daughter did sneak out - why are you apologizing to her?) and then lets Liz get away with hiding from her, even after she knows that Liz is burning up with fever. This just seemed strange to me. I don't know. Maybe Liz was just overly hyper due to her extracurricular activities with Max, maybe it's just normal teen stuff, but there seemed to be an awful lot of hostility Liz is directing at her mother there. Still confuses me. Oh, well.

Congratulations on your 1000th post!

Officially crazed? Good job!

Roswellian - What I remember most clearly about Liz's mother in the books was that she tried to get her dad to back off when he was yelling at Liz during her grounding and he yelled at her about how he was trying to keep this daughter alive. Liz's mother seemed to be a nice non-confrontational person who was trying to keep peace between Liz and her father.

Only a week and a half to go!

I just saw "Balance" - here "Nasedo" - today. I thought I's share my feelings and thoughts of the show in contrast to the books with you:

First of all, I totally loved the episode! There were a couple of scenes that made my heart ache.
My favorite scene was when all of them made the connection to save Michaels life in the cave. When they suceeded, he shook Alex's hand, kissed Maria and hugged Isabel. Liz was sort of standing in between him and Max. I found this scene to be very symbolic regarding Michael's feelings towards the others. Alex and Isabel being his friends, Maria the one he loves and him being jealous of Max's feelings for Liz. But the most heart-throbbing scene to me was when they transformed to children and the child Michael did finally take Max's hand. I also thought that the camerawork was excellent! I also liked that when Michael said he was ready to face everything, he looked at Maria.

I kind of found this scene pretty true to the essence of the book. Except the conflict with Liz.

I also liked the scenes between Alex and Isabel. Although Ray's reaction to Alex's faux pas at the UFO center seemed exaggerated to me. But I guess living in Roswell must force people to react weird when it comes to alien-related things. But boy, did Alex look like having a major crush.
I also liked the way Isabel seems to open up a little.

I felt sorry for Alex and Maria when they were constantly kept out, when they tried to help Michael. In the books they connected from the very beginning, so the friendship seems to be stronger, while it's still weak and growing in the books.

Here are a few problems with the episode - at least I felt them as such: I didn't get

Max in the end. Why did he say he would have to step back from his relationship with Liz? I thought when he said, that he was scared that something like what happened to Michael could also happen to him, was so lame. I mean, he shouldn't do that particular Native American ritual then - or go to a sauna. So he'll keep his balance in order. But what I kind of thought than is that it was one of those things that kind of implicit the connection to the books: I had the feeling he was referring to the AKINO in the books. That was something all aliens going had to go through one day. I hope you will now what I mean. I'm not sure, I'm explaining myself. But what I want to say, if I had not read the books, I might have wondered why he broke up. Because it didn't make sense to me (my sister said that too - she hasn't read the books yet).

Thanks for letting me share!

Melanie
http://www.meome.de/tratsch

Aphid:
quote:Melanie0802 - Yes, my other friend from Germany complains about being behind other contries constantly too! Fortunately, books are not a problem if you can read english. Any new insights after rereading #7?
Well, at least now understand the whole Michael-Cameron-Maria situation better, as well as the whole Adam-Liz thing. I'm reading the other books again. Boy, am I some sick obsessed puppy or what?

quote:Hey! I think I broke the 1000 post mark! I am officially crazed... but then again I've always been crazed, so it's nice to get the recognition.
Congratulations! I was siked (do you spell that this way?) when I finally got to be a "Fan"! Fan in training sounded so lame...haha!

Melanie

Anla:
quote:Melanie - Oh, to have the joy again of seeing Heatwave for the first time. I think I have practically memorized every second of the opening scene. I loved it!
I really liked that episode a lot too. I think it's one of my favorites so far. I've already seen it three times. I thought the opening scene was really hot!

quote:A similarity between the show and books is that while Max is originally the obsessed one in the relationship, once Liz becomes aware of his feelings, she becomes the pursuer, as evidenced in their little speech while Liz is having her slug experiment (you know, we never did things like they do on the show while I was in school).
That speech was hilarious! I thought it was so funny, when the teacher comes in and asks who the mating ritual is going on and Liz's answer kind of works for her situation with Max too. I agree with you on her being the pursuer. A quality I kind of admire, since I'm totally opposed to that.
We never got to do those biology experiments at school here in Germany. Not even the frog-experiment, I see on TV-Shows so often. Not that I would have wanted to do them anyway...My friend who studies biology in College has to do those kind of things...

quote:I'll let you know if the book is any good - could be a while until I read it though.
Thanks! I appreciate that.

quote:I love the writing in the books, too. The characters all seem so real. I wish I had friends like that in high school.
Yeah, me too. Not that I have to complain about my friends - they are the best. But I do sometimes wish for an extraordinary life. I guess that's why I love TV-Shows and books so much. They let you be part of the fantasy! I love that!

quote:When are you going to be seeing Dido? That should be cool
That's going to be April 22nd. I'm totally looking forward to it. I heard Dido is getting hitched in between her promo tour. Is she giving concerts in America as well? I'll definitely give you all a full report, I promise.

Well, gotta go...definitely wrote enough for today.

Take care, Melanie

Oh, and good point about Liz being the eventual pursuer in both the books and in the show. One difference on that front is that Max is the one to push for breaking up in the books and is only the same way in the show during the beginning of season 1 (up until Sexual Healing). After that, it is Liz who does the pushing away.

Melanie0802 - Good point about the Balence healing having a lot of the halmarks of the connection in the books. Particularly (and this is a rarity in the series) the ability of the humans to help! I must admit though I didn't like The Balence as much as you did (I guess that's my lack of enthusiasm for Micheal in general showing through... whoops!), I really did enjoy the fact that Alex and Maria were able to get in there and really do some good.

I must admit that on first veiwing of the balence (before I had read the books) the whole Max feels like he has to break up with Liz thing was really confusing. But I eventually came up with a reason after reading the books and reflecting on it, but I will get back to that later.

As for the akino, I think you are right on. I think that, in a way, that is sort of related to why Max wanted to break up with Liz on the show. Max didn't want to get close to Liz in the books because he thought that he was dying and perhaps Max in the show knew that he was not in danger from what Micheal had, but that, because he was alien, he could not predict when a perfectly normal human occurance would cause him to go into shock, get very sick and/or die. So, in his mind, he was distancing himself from Liz so that if he should die some horrible, awful death in the future, it wouldn't hurt her so much. But yeah, that was totally not obvious on the show and really needed some reflection on the books in order to come up with.

Yep, the books 8 to 10 make much more sense once you have read 7! I must admit I can never remember what happens in what book, but if #7 is the one with lots of scenes with Micheal and Cameron in the compound (I almost typed Courtney - bad girl!) then I can totally see how that would help you with the whole Micheal/Cameron relationship.

BTW... it's spelled psyched (not siked) because it comes from psychology in some wierd way (don't ask me why...). But good guess, I can see that you have heard that word, not seen in on the boards. And yep, finally getting your training wheels off is wonderful! The next big step for me was getting my own avatar at post 500. After that I don't think there are any more perks, just different titles....

Have fun at Dido!

Only 8 more days... I can do this!

Do you have awesome weather as well?

Aphid:

quote:I must admit that on first veiwing of the balence (before I had read the books) the whole Max feels like he has to break up with Liz thing was really confusing. But I eventually came up with a reason after reading the books and reflecting on it, but I will get back to that later.

I'm glad to hear that. I'm not really sure sometime, if I get all fuzzy and confused about the Show, because I got insights from the books. But generally, I think they help me understand a lot.

quote:As for the akino, I think you are right on. I think that, in a way, that is sort of related to why Max wanted to break up with Liz on the show. Max didn't want to get close to Liz in the books because he thought that he was dying and perhaps Max in the show knew that he was not in danger from what Micheal had, but that, because he was alien, he could not predict when a perfectly normal human occurance would cause him to go into shock, get very sick and/or die. So, in his mind, he was distancing himself from Liz so that if he should die some horrible, awful death in the future, it wouldn't hurt her so much. But yeah, that was totally not obvious on the show and really needed some reflection on the books in order to come up with.
I totally agree

quote:if #7 is the one with lots of scenes with Micheal and Cameron in the compound (I almost typed Courtney - bad girl!) then I can totally see how that would help you with the whole Micheal/Cameron relationship.
No. 7 is were Alex disappeared/got suked through the wormhole to the homeplanet.
But Cameron left without saying a word to Michael - which explained his feelings toward her to me a lot...

quote:it's spelled psyched (not siked)
Actually, I kind of thought that afterwards too. But I just wasn't sure. Thanks!
quote:getting my own avatar at post 500. After that I don't think there are any more perks, just different titles....
Good luck at that! I'm close to 100 posts - I wonder if I get to be something bigger than "Fan"...

quote:Have fun at Dido!
Thank you! I can't wait!

See you around!

Melanie

"At the risk of sounding like a feminine hygiene commercial or something, call me if you need to talk"

Do you have awesome weather as well?

Aphid:

quote:I must admit that on first veiwing of the balence (before I had read the books) the whole Max feels like he has to break up with Liz thing was really confusing. But I eventually came up with a reason after reading the books and reflecting on it, but I will get back to that later.

I'm glad to hear that. I'm not really sure sometime, if I get all fuzzy and confused about the Show, because I got insights from the books. But generally, I think they help me understand a lot.

quote:As for the akino, I think you are right on. I think that, in a way, that is sort of related to why Max wanted to break up with Liz on the show. Max didn't want to get close to Liz in the books because he thought that he was dying and perhaps Max in the show knew that he was not in danger from what Micheal had, but that, because he was alien, he could not predict when a perfectly normal human occurance would cause him to go into shock, get very sick and/or die. So, in his mind, he was distancing himself from Liz so that if he should die some horrible, awful death in the future, it wouldn't hurt her so much. But yeah, that was totally not obvious on the show and really needed some reflection on the books in order to come up with.
I totally agree

quote:if #7 is the one with lots of scenes with Micheal and Cameron in the compound (I almost typed Courtney - bad girl!) then I can totally see how that would help you with the whole Micheal/Cameron relationship.
No. 7 is were Alex disappeared/got suked through the wormhole to the homeplanet.
But Cameron left without saying a word to Michael - which explained his feelings toward her to me a lot...

quote:it's spelled psyched (not siked)
Actually, I kind of thought that afterwards too. But I just wasn't sure. Thanks!
quote:getting my own avatar at post 500. After that I don't think there are any more perks, just different titles....
Good luck at that! I'm close to 100 posts - I wonder if I get to be something bigger than "Fan"...

quote:Have fun at Dido!
Thank you! I can't wait!

See you around!

Melanie

"At the risk of sounding like a feminine hygiene commercial or something, call me if you need to talk" (The Salvation)

Mel

I wanted to share this pic with you: It goes well with my thoughts on "Balance":

http://www.envy.nu/roswell

Melanie

Bubbles, thanks for sharing your theories.
quote:I love the "Starman" scene (book 10?), and Michael doesn't really seem to recognise the meaning of Maria watching the movie.

Me too!
I totally love that scene!
quote:They argue a lot more, but they're just too cute!
Most of their arguments in the Show I find hysterical!
Well, maybe it's just me looking way younger than 26 - but I always find that the American kids portrayed in the TV-Shows look and behave older than I remember looking or behaving at the same age.
Maybe this is a inter-cultural thing though.
I always thought the kids I took care of in the States - when I lived there - looked & behaved way older than the kids the same age in Germany. Isn't that weird?

Melanie http://www.meome.de/tratsch

The thing I liked the most about the Balance was that this was the episode where I started to really like Isabel. Up until then, I really didn't have a handle on the character. However, watching her during her discussion with Maria as Michael was dying, I realized how completely Isabel had built her life on Max and Michael. They truly were the most important people in her world and she would be devastated to lose either of them. Isabel would do anything to keep them both safe. After that, I could understand her reactions better.

And I also loved the start of Alex/Isabel in that episode. Gotta love how Alex instantly goes into help mode and tries to get Isabel some information about her home planet. True, he might not have gone about it in the most secretive way, but at least he tried.

As for Max "stepping back" from his relationship with Liz - what I remember about Liz in that episode is how terrified she is. Liz does not like things she can't control. Max's alien side is something she can't control and she's afraid of it. Throughout the series, Liz tends to freak out when confronted directly with the fact that Max is an alien (not a totally unreasonable response). Alex and Maria pretty much accept the fact that Michael and Isabel are aliens and that unusual things will happen, but they're both more inclined to "go with the flow" in life. Liz and Max both have control issues. Max hates being an alien. He wants to just be an ordinary teenage boy in love with a girl. In fact, probably the only time in his life in which he is actually glad to be an alien is when he's able to save Liz's life. Michael getting sick brought home to both Max and Liz how "other" the aliens were. Max saw how much this scared Liz, so he backed away.

For Michael, being an alien is something that gives him some pride (who cares what humans think about him?) and a hope for escape from his horrible life in Roswell. For Isabel, when she thinks about it, being an alien is a fun way to do tricks for recreation. Max tries his best, especially in Season 1, to ignore the fact that he's alien.

I don't recall the kids in the books ever doing the whole "Am I an alien or a human?" thing. They just accepted that they were aliens. Max seemed more comfortable with who and what he was.

Aphid - Maybe the writers in that scene between Liz and her mother had just finished reading the books and got their Lizes confused.

Bubbles - I agree with you about book M/M being so much more innocent, as all the characters are. I suspect that Michael's abusive treatment from Hank and Maria's abandonment issues from losing her father add a great deal to the intense nature of their relationship on the show.

I will write tomorrow. But here a picture for all of you (esp. Anla - got your message)

Take care, Melanie
http://www.meome.de/tratsch

That was the start of such a sad scene, though. You haven't seen End of the World yet, have you? Talk about angst. It had some good Michael/Maria stuff though (not necessarily happy stuff, but still good).

Okay, I can see TV Max working out. He can use that as a way to channel his anger and frustation at the situation he's in (king of a planet he really couldn't care less about, wanting Liz but repeatedly shot down by her) and perhaps he's even listened enough to everyone's warnings that he would want to prepare for the battle to come. But I can't really imagine Book Max turning his bedroom into an impromptu gym. I can see him exercising by playing basketball or other sports with Michael and Alex, though. Can you imagine the TV Max, Michael, and Alex all getting together for a basketball game in the Evans' driveway? It would certainly be interesting to watch. (of course, Isabel would probably beat them all - seems like she would have that competitive streak )

edited - I originally wrote that Max was the king of a "planter" he couldn't care less about

Mel

Nope - the last episode I saw was "Balance"..
So I really can't make the comparison on book/Tv Max yet...

See/Read you guys tomorrow?

Mel

My favorite shirtless Max scene, by the way, was the one in SH. He and Liz seemed believable to me as two teens who were head over heels in love, but still nervous, unsure, and at times scared by everything that was happening to them and between them. Plus, Max was adorable.

Melanie - I don't recognize that picture. Was it from Roswell or something else Jason Behr was involved in?

Anla - I really don't remember where it's from....
Alright, I thought of something I want to share with you: When I talk about the episodes on other threads, people always tell me not to compare the show with the books. They say, JK hasn't even read more than the first book of the series - so they tell me.
Well, this morning I was taping some German episodes for a german-speaking American, who wants to see it in German, and there is this scene (I don't know the title of the episode) where Maria helps out Isabel. Her care broke down and Maria gives Izz a drive. Isabel is doing several things with her powers and that gives Maria the creeps. Has anyone noticed that she keeps drifting to the other lane - just like described in the books? I thought that singular driving-manner was definitely a sign JK read more than just the first book. And there are things one could compare both mediums to.
I mean, I love both - so don't get me wrong....
Am I ever getting to a point? Hope you know what I mean.

Melanie

The reason why I mentioned this whole thing is, because I had the feeling that some fans felt almost insulted by the little comparison I made. I never said one thing was better than the other. I guess I must be careful on comparing...!

Bye-now, Mel

Okay, the on-topic conversations has been rather dragging lately. I know I've run out of anything even remotely interesting to say (and yet here I am anyway ). We are so in need of new episodes to dissect, obsess over, and compare with the books.

Only 4 more days until the new episode!
(whatever that might be )

I guess for me it' s kind of neat that this thread has kind of slowed down - I won't be of much use when it comes to the new eps...

Well, I'll scoop in anyway. But I might overread the new comparisons. I don't want to get too spoilt. I'm still happy for your guys. I just heard that on German Pay TV "Premiere", which my dad has, they've already further ahead. I wish I had known - I would have asked him to tape them for me. It's a pain in the neck to keep waiting week after week...

See ya!

Melanie

PS: Happy Eastern!!!!

Anla - Good thoughts about how Max might also have been backing off from Liz in the Balance because he sensed how freaked Liz was by his alien side.

Also a good point that the book podsters were more at peace with the fact that they were aliens, particularly Max, who on the TV show is practically to the point of self-loathing about his alien side.

Shapeshifter - Wow, JB is 27? I knew he was in his twenties, but I always thought he was 22 or 23. Interesting that JB is halfway between the age of FMax and PMax.

Good thoughts about the acting careers of the actors being part of the reason that theTV characters act older than the book characters. Plus I think it is also one of intended audience. The average-aged young adult reader is probably in High School (yeah, totally not a typical one myself, but there ya have it) whereas the target audience for Roswell is probably more college-aged. Cool speculation about what might have happened if the series had continued. My thoughts are that that maturing of the characters probably would have only happened for the audience's sake if the books were re-released as mainstream novels rather than "young adult" novels.

Shapeshifter and Anla - I agree that the podsters act more mature in the second season, but I really do tend to attribute it to what they have been put through - particularly Max. There has been much more harm done them, terrible things that they have had to do and that they have witnessed and I think that can't help but make you more jaded. I really have not noticed a significant change in clothing, they have kinda always been in short skirts and so on. Except that ever since SH we have seen a lot more of JB without his shirt. Not that I mind...

Anla - You are totally right, TV Max has a lot more emotional frustrations and tensions than Book Max (except during the whole akino thing, but that is a whole different thing). I can totally see Book Max playing B-Ball with Micheal and Alex, but I have a hard time seeing (particularly TV Max) playing a pick up game with Micheal, Alex and Kyle. Um.... nope, I'm thinking that's not going to happen! The bedroom gym is much more TV Max's style....

Hi EmeliAngel, welcome back! Yup, ya been gone a while. But then again so have I.

Melanie0802 - I can guarentee that that picture of JB in front of a fire is not a Roswell scene (unless it's in the eppies we have not seen, which I doubt) so it must be from some of his previous work (he also looks a little younger in that pic).

Anla - I agree with you that Max and Liz seemed rather teenagerish in SH. But then again, it was before any major trama. Maybe you are right that the adultification of the podsters is more than that trama warrents. I wonder if we will see some of that teenagerish behavior return during the prom episode (Heart of Mine).

Melanie0802 - I must have missed the driving into the other lane thing in the books. Are you talking about the troubles Liz had driving when she was driving from Max's to Maria's after just finding out that Max was an alien?

As Anla already said, we love comparing the two. I am willing to take JK at his word that he only read the first one, but I have to agree with Anla in that I think several writers read the second one (the whole Nicholas/Nikolas thing). I had not heard that they might have read the later books, but then again, I don't really stay plugged into that. Either way, I just find it fascinating to see where these two mostly parallel plotlines sometimes meet and cross. Also the ways in which they follow very similar plot rythems sometimes (just read the last portion of the intro, the one about the human then alien threats and the one about the recurring alien threat).

Melanie & Anla - Yeah, it will be nice to have more to talk about when the new eppies air here. I am sorry that you are not going to see them Melanie, but as you watch your way through season one, please continue to give us updates! Are you to Toy House or Into The Woods yet? What night does it air there?

Well that's about it for me, like you Anla, I am so running on empty. I know quite a few semi spoilerish things, so I have a feeling that we could have a lot to talk about after HOM, but I just hope that they can make sense of it without OTM. Without giving away anything, there is one crucial character development plot point that is basically an essential precursor to HOM and they are going to have to do something about that or there is going to be one very jarring character shift.

Anyway, for good or ill... (who am I kidding, I am thrilled as heck) only 24 hours, 20 minutes and 53 seconds until more new Roswell for you and me Anla!

Cheers all!

Happy Eastern to all of you! I was really good writing my paper today. I still have a lot of work to do though. Plus I had to write an article for my weekly column. Arnold Schwarzenegger is doing this new funny commercial here in Germany, so it hit him this time.

Alright here my thoughts on "Toy House", which aired yesterday:

I totally loved the beginning of this episode. It was all a blur - but you could make out Max as a child and some bird's wings. I don't know why, but I totally get a kick out of the childhood scenes. I really love them!!!

Then the main thing of course: the fire, where Max rushes to help his mother. He makes use of his power - but claims that he the water put it out. Isn't it common knowledge that water doesn't help with an oil-fire? I wondered why the firemen didn't say anything like that.
Valenti's remarks kept Mrs. Evans wondering about what had happened for real. Maybe she would have been confused, but would have believed Max's waterstory - but Valenti was obviously pushing it. So the subject of "unconditional love" came up. Michael claimed there was no such thing, whereas Isabel wanted to believe in it so much. She wanted to be reassured that her mum would love her even if she knew that she was actually an alien. But Max - as always - took control of the situation and did not allow it. I kept wondering why it was such a big deal to Max. He could have lied to his mum. I mean, you always hear of people who have the gift to heal. That doesn't particularly make them aliens.
But then it hit me!
He doesn't want to lie to her. Not telling her was hard enough for him, but telling lies would have been worse.
So, the problem Max has, is that he is not able to trust anyone completely. That's why he backed away from Liz too. Obviously he was suffering from not being with her and seeing her hang around Kyle.
Liz was trying to cope with the whole Max situation - as good as she could. I think she tried to make him jealous when she cheered Kyle on the one hand, but having been dumbed on the other hand, must have made her realize how the whole situation felt for Kyle. I liked the scene in the Crashdown, when they had this really nice talk. I also liked the way Liz talked to Max and I totally went "you go, girl!", when she told him that she did not need his permission if she wanted to get back with Kyle. I think that was totally neccessary.
I totally loved every single scene with Michael and Maria (except - what the hell were they thinking letting Michael wear that horrible orange sweater....?). Maria made her point, and I think Michael got the message. I also think that even though Maria would have liked for the whole situation to end differently, she liked his answer (that she was confusing him, making him feel like a human).
The last scenes were really sad. Max giving that toyhouse back to his heart was heartbreaking. But when he confessed to Isabel that he didn't tell their mum, I could totally feel with Isabel. But at least she has Max and that must be comforting too...

All in all a wonderful episode. Can't wait to see more....!!!!

There were hardly any parallels with the book this time. At least I can't come up with any. Which is good, I guess.

Mel

quote:I must have missed the driving into the other lane thing in the books. Are you talking about the troubles Liz had driving when she was driving from Max's to Maria's after just finding out that Max was an alien?
No, actually I meant that the driving thing was a characteristic of Maria in the book. I think it must have been in the last ones. But then, she does that in the show too. So, it might be a coincidence, but I kind of had the feeling it's a parallel to the books.
Which I thought was neat.

quote:As Anla already said, we love comparing the two. I am willing to take JK at his word that he only read the first one, but I have to agree with Anla in that I think several writers read the second one (the whole Nicholas/Nikolas thing). I had not heard that they might have read the later books, but then again, I don't really stay plugged into that. Either way, I just find it fascinating to see where these two mostly parallel plotlines sometimes meet and cross. Also the ways in which they follow very similar plot rythems sometimes (just read the last portion of the intro, the one about the human then alien threats and the one about the recurring alien threat).
I agree. I love comparing the two. I just meant, I might be more careful in other threads. Some fans don't seem to like the comparisons. Whyever...!
quote:Are you to Toy House or Into The Woods yet? What night does it air there?
We just watched Toy House. It airs Saturdays at 5 pm.

You guys, have fun with the new episode tomorrow!!!

Mel

Melanie - I hope you had a nice weekend holiday.

I know what you mean about not using water to put out a grease fire. I was slightly surprised that Mrs. Evans didn't question that. Still, while she seems like a wonderfully supportive mother, she isn't exactly the most brilliant person living in town. Wait until you see Sexual Healing. I'm sure that if Valenti hadn't shown up with his little pamphlet, Mrs. Evans never would have questioned Max's story.

I think you're right about Max not wanting to lie to their mother. He just wanted the subject dropped, like right now. I was impressed by his quick thinking with the pot of water. Hey, he knows his mother, and it almost worked. It reminded me of the way he poured ketchup over Liz to cover up the blood. Max may not plan these little experiences out in advance the way Michael does, but he is pretty good at thinking up cover stories quickly. And they seem to be good enough to fool the average Roswell adult. Valenti is the exception, but he's much more observant than the other parents.

As I recall, Toy House was the first time I started to realize how unhappy and unsure of himself Max was. With Michael, you can see that he has issues from the moment we met him. Max tries to project the image of someone who is in control and is okay. As badly as I felt for Isabel, I felt worse for Max. You can tell that he wants to be able to trust his mother, but he doesn't. He wants to believe in unconditional love, but deep down, Max thinks that Michael is right, that there is no such thing as unconditional love, and that his mother won't be able to love and accept him if she knows that he's an alien. I was slightly surprised by just how cold Max was in this episode while manipulating his mother into dropping the issue. He knew exactly what to say and what buttons to push. I was stunned when he yelled at her that she's supposed to be his mother and then later tells her that if she keeps asking questions he'll leave (and that right after she questions if he needs to find his "real" parents). Max was able to use her insecurities of being an adopted parent against her. I understand why he did it, that he felt it was necessary for their emotional and physical safety to stop her from pursuing this, but it still surprised me. I think that's the harshest I've ever seen Max, even surpassing his actions towards Michael later in the season.

By the way, I can't recall the kids ever thinking about telling their parents that they're aliens in the books. Did they? It's been a while since I finished reading them.

Aphid - I think you're absolutely right about Max's self-loathing. He hated being an alien, and I don't think we've seen any sign that his opinion has changed. In TH, he shows that he doesn't believe his own mother could love him after learning the truth, and in SH Max is stunned to realize that Liz loves him and wants him, even though she knows that he's an alien. This season, his alien past has cost him Liz. My feeling is that the only time in his life when Max has been happy to be an alien was when he was able to save Liz's life.

As I think I said (not sure right now), I'm sure that their traumatic experiences has led to the kids seeming more mature this season. However, I can't help thinking that the desire to get more of an audience has something to do with it, too.

I agree that Max is much more likely to work out alone. He wouldn't want to let anyone know that he is preparing for the enemy, or that he needs some way to work out his inner frustrations. Either would be evidence that he's not totally calm and in control. But I would love to see that basketball game.

And continuing your countdown:
Only 6 1/2 hours to go!

Bowling Alley After Hours

I mean, hello! I think we have a pretty big Sean/Nikolas compare and contrast coming. And the socks on the alley thing? Well it's not flying but it's about as close as you're going to get as humans, ya know?

I am totally psyched. The moment Sean mentioned it in the car before he kissed her and Liz said it was closed I was like... ding, ding, ding! Nikolas calling!

Of course Sean is a sweetheart, but come on... that's just not a parallel we can miss there folks!

Okay, back with coherant thoughts tomorrow...
*hugs* y'all!

I'm taking a little break from my paper.
I went to see "River Dance" yesterday - it was awesome!! Totally loved it!!

Hello Shapeshifter:
quote:JK might not have read more than Book 1, but the writers sure must have--and that would be doing their homework, anyway. And Melinda definitely watched the shows before finishing books 8, 9, & 10. I think it's very nice that they shared ideas like that without getting all uptight about copyright and what not, because although I'm a card-carrying Librarian, I'm also an artist, and collaboration is always good to stimulate artistic creativity.
If it was really that way, I think that's great. What kind of art do you do?

Hi Anla: My weekend was alright. Spend it infront of the compi, while everyone was eating Paella (a spanish meal - do you know it?) at my parent's home. My parents are from Spain and my mum makes the best Paella ever. When I lived in the States and my parents came to visit, they made life-long friends when mum cooked her Paella...haha!!!

quote:I know what you mean about not using water to put out a grease fire. I was slightly surprised that Mrs. Evans didn't question that. Still, while she seems like a wonderfully supportive mother, she isn't exactly the most brilliant person living in town. Wait until you see Sexual Healing.
Yeah, I can't wait to see that one....is it coming up soon? - "In the Woods" is up next here.

quote:I was slightly surprised by just how cold Max was in this episode while manipulating his mother into dropping the issue. He knew exactly what to say and what buttons to push. I was stunned when he yelled at her that she's supposed to be his mother and then later tells her that if she keeps asking questions he'll leave (and that right after she questions if he needs to find his "real" parents). Max was able to use her insecurities of being an adopted parent against her.
Good thought. I remember having that feeling too. But never thought it through. Thanks for pointing it out.

quote:By the way, I can't recall the kids ever thinking about telling their parents that they're aliens in the books. Did they? It's been a while since I finished reading them.
You're right. In the books that's not even an issue. I guess the relation between Max & Isabel with their parents is more particular in the show. If I remember it well, the Evans' are only mentioned more or less to explain why they are not there.

Hi Aphid !

Take care, Melanie

The moment where Amy has them all gather together for the prom picture was a definite Book Friendship moment. I loved how Liz was talking about how even with everything they've gone through, they were all together and their relationships were stronger than they ever would have imagined possibile. That was so in keeping with the spirit of their connection in the book.

I also see a bit of the innocent about Sean, even though he's supposed to be the big bad convict (I'm sorry, I so don't get the bad boy vibe there). Both Sean and Adam were locked away from society, making them outsiders who are just getting acclimated to life in Roswell. And Liz kisses both, and then immediately feels guilty.

It would certainly be an easier way of getting information, wouldn't it? But there are those nasty little side effects.

Actually, while watching the scene with Max and Tess trying to focus and remember their past lives, I had a little bit of a flashback to Max connected to the collective consciousness. I hope his remembering his past life doesn't lead to as many Bad Things as Book Max's connection to the CC did.

And I think the memory retrieval jive is going soo the way of the collective consciousness--I have big hopes that it will prove to be equally bad in the end, and that Liz will rescue Max from it.

[b]Bowling Alley After Hours

I mean, hello! I think we have a pretty big Sean/Nikolas compare and contrast coming. And the socks on the alley thing? Well it's not flying but it's about as close as you're going to get as humans, ya know?

I am totally psyched. The moment Sean mentioned it in the car before he kissed her and Liz said it was closed I was like... ding, ding, ding! Nikolas calling!

Of course Sean is a sweetheart, but come on... that's just not a parallel we can miss there folks!

Okay, back with coherant thoughts tomorrow...
*hugs* y'all!

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Good I wasn't the only one! I thought that I had been was reading/watching too much Roswell! But I completely saw the comparison!

quote:
Aphid, I know you're seeing a connection between Sean and Nicholas, but I'm seeing him as so much more the Adam character. Of course, there's the obvious comparison, that he's the M&L transition guy. But there are a lot of parallels. He's a latecomer to the gang, who is immediately attracted to Liz, even though she's still into Max. When Max gets cold and distant to her, and Liz decides to make a final break, he's there to offer the comfort of a guy who likes her without the complications, who is willing to pal around and have some light-hearted fun, and basically provide an ego boost at a time when Liz needs it.
I also see a bit of the innocent about Sean, even though he's supposed to be the big bad convict (I'm sorry, I so don't get the bad boy vibe there). Both Sean and Adam were locked away from society, making them outsiders who are just getting acclimated to life in Roswell. And Liz kisses both, and then immediately feels guilty.

Yeah I made that comparison too. She went running straight to Sean (gag me!) after she saw Max and Tess kissing. He's her only reasurance...and that scares me. Liz used to rely on Max for everything. Now all she has is Sean.

I almost fell of my bed when Sean said that the other night. That there's "something special" about her. Made me want to gag!

Of course, if it does, then Liz could help bring him back.

I read on the Roswell 2 board that Colin Hanks' mom has serious cancer, and that might be why he wanted out of the contract. Then someone else pointed out that they could still bring him back like they did dead Mulder on X-files. If so, this would be similar to the books when Alex came back from Antar. Didn't they even have a funeral for him in the books?
And his dying when Isabel was finally in love with him would be a Nicholas scenario.

Maybe you were thinking of the scene where Isabel writes the letter to Alex and sends it off. That could perhaps seem like a memorial service. But in the letter she talks about how much she misses him, and how she knows they're going to be important in each other's lives in some way. She was still expecting and hoping that he would come back to them.

I don't think Isabel ever loved Nikolas. She was attracted to him and felt a connection with him, but I don't feel it was true love. But his death was devastating to her. I suspect that her subsequent shock had just as much to do with her fear of Valenti and the same thing happening to her as it did with her feelings for Nikolas.

...Anyway...I really enjoyed those scenes, because it was the first time I had the feeling that Maria and Liz were behaving like 16 year olds. They were giggling and making fun - I that!! That was part of the books I enjoyed so much - the whole emphasis on the friendships. I liked to see it a little bit more in the Show.
Maria wearing that water-wonderbra at school and all the gys trying to hit on her...I was giggling the whole time.

I also enjoyed the whole father/kids relation shown for the first time to this extend.
Liz & Mr. Parker:
It was obvious that Liz' father is having trouble acknowledging that she is growing up and becoming a young woman. I guess, he is scared of that too - otherwise why would he have thought of her taking drugs? I mean that situation with Maria did look kind of obvious - but he could have asked her innocently... I saw a paralel to the book. I felt the whole "Rosa" issue being rolled up somehow. In the book Liz' father thinks she is taking drugs too. He even checks her arms.
The camping in the Show is one event he holds up to, because he still wants to be close to her. I thought it was so lovely and considerate that Liz said that spending time with him was exactly what she wanted to do too - eventhough she would have rather stayed. It was good Maria went with them. Not having a father gets to her sometimes and at least she didn't feel left out. Eventhough I thought it was hilarious she got paid for going ! Did anyone else notice how trendy she looked like even though they were in the woods? Even Isabel, Miss-Fashion-herself looked more comfortable...
Also, I was a little surprised at Liz' reaction when her father confronted her with the supposed "drugs". Personally, I would have been furious for not trusting or at least asking me... In the books she was more hurt by that too. Of course being compared to her sister was the main issue there. Liz had the feeling her dad did not know her at all for him even thinking she would do drugs. This does not seem to be a point in the Show.

Max, Isabel & Mr. Evans: I think that's the first time we got introduced to Max and Isabel's father. He seemed rather surprised that his kids would want to do that kind of thing with him. And I guess he was right, since the only reason for them to do this excursion was to find out about the UFO sighting. I hope the relationship between these three will become clearer soon.

Alex and Mr. Whitman: Alex's father seemed totally out of place in nature. I don't think to know anything about him, but I got the impression that he was more the intellectual kind of type - lost in the wilderness. While in the books he is this military guy, who is of some importance.

Alex' motives were clear: because of his major crush, he wanted to be with Isabel. The scene with her explaining him the constelation of the stars was too cute. She looked really cozy with him. But panicked when he started talking about a "date" - she doesn't seem to be able to open herself so much to a person yet. I felt really bad for Alex.

Kyle and Sheriff Valenti: I really felt horrible for Kyle. He wants to be close to his dad so badly. But the Sheriff's obsession is always in between of them. I mean, you do have to give Valenti credit for at least coming to the trip, but then his only pursuit was Max and Isabel. Kyle feels like the sheriff must have with his father. It's like an never ending circle. I liked when the Sherrif went to visit his dad. I thought maybe what Kyle had said to him, made him understand he is no better than his own dad was... The scene between the Sheriff and his dad made him very sympathetic. In the books he is just Mr. Evil himself. I like him at the Show better - for obvious reasons...
Michael, Hank & River Dog: I knew Hank was a whacko - but after this episode it is christal clear. Suggesting Michael to use beer instead of milk is very telling. No wonder Michael was hoping that River Dog was an Alien and even more: his father. You could see the disappointment in his face when he was told he wasn't...
One other thing: Michael was wearing another horrible orange sweater. I mean: Hello???? There must be someone in charge of the wardrope to see it looks aweful on him. I wonder if they bought it in mulitiple pack...

Sorry, if I behave like I'm from the fashion police or anything - but I'm a little particular on things like that....
My favourite scene in the episode was when Liz and Maria hided because the lie they had told Max was about to reveal. I thought that was so funny! I rember making up stories to be more intersting when I was that age too. I could relate to that completely. Funny thing was it mostly worked
Of course the whole "Nasedo" issue is going to be really interesting - and the Liz & Max situation as well...
Alright - that's it.

Mel

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I think that Liz's situation with her father concerning the "drugs" would have been so much more meaningful if they had included the Rosa storyline in the show. After the group connections, this is the part of the books which I wish they had included the most. It would have added so much depth to Liz's character. Oh, well.

The differences between Mr. Whitman and Mr. Manes are huge. I really liked Alex's father in this episode. He seemed really supportive of his son. I don't know many parents who would change their plans on a half hour's notice to go camping, even without supplies or gear. Both Alexes have always seemed very self-assured and secure to me. I don't think you've seen it yet, but in one of the episodes Alex says that he's a geek and proud of it, or something to that effect. While he might wish he was more popular so that he could have a better chance with Isabel, I think Alex is okay with who he is. I'm sure that his parents' support helps with that. (I'm more suprised that book Alex doesn't have more problems, with his father always looking down on him, but at least that changes in the later books).

Hank is awful. Just wait - you'll be seeing more about him. TV Michael has things much worse than Book Michael, which explains the more extreme nature of TV Michael's relationship issues.

I agree with you that watching Maria and Liz giggling and playing around with fake nose rings and aqua bras was fun. In the books, they always acted like friends and had fun in high school. It's nice when they're able to relax enough to hang out and play in the show.

quote:Originally posted by Anla:
It Was You - I'm with you in the hope that Max doesn't get as involved with his memory retrievals as he did in the books with the collective consciousness. I think he's already started to, though. He seemed so cold and distant with Liz at the prom. What happened to the Max Evans who has been so obsessed with Liz since they were in the third grade? The Max who said he didn't care if his entire world was destroyed as long as he had her? The Max who said he was coming for her? Now, while I fully believe that Max needs to learn a bit of perspective with his responsibilities and priorities, this sudden distance from Liz seemed strange. Perhaps if they had shown the episodes in order, we would have seen more of this progression. It just seems like such a huge jump from VLV. I hope that learning more about his alien life doesn't take him farther and farther from his human side, as it did in the books.

This was exactly what I was thinking while watching the scene with Max and Tess doing memory retreival. When Max was talking about feeling the energies of Michael, Isabel and Tess it sounded so much like the beings in the consiousness. I did notice Max's distance from Liz in the episode and the way that he seemed very resistant at times with her (like on the dance floor it seemed like he wanted to say soemthing but soemthing was stopping him, like wanting to communicate with Liz when the consiousness was telling her he didn't love her.) I also had a stange comparision between Max being in the pool of beings and swimming in jello. Also the way Max was so spacey, like when kissing Tess and Liz walks out and slams the door he really didn't hear her slam the door.
(Of course I little symbolism I saw was the fact Max was caressing a white rose after the dance floor scene and kept it in one hand while kissing Tess, White Rose=Liz he can't really forget about her.)

Oh and I see Sean as a cross between Nikolas/Adam, the whole bowling thing made me say "someone most have read the wild one, huh Mr. Katims" but the fact that he was there for Liz when Max was in lala land was totally Adam. My feelings for Sean are undecided I don't trust him but it's nice to see him make Liz laugh (she needs to laugh.)

Anyway I think what we are seeing is Max getting in touch with his alien side and it's taking over his human side but he needs that balance. Max doesn't have his balance right now, I think Liz is his balance and I would love to see something like in the books where Liz is the one to bring him back.

Also since it was brought up I thought I'd share Off the Menu was changed because of the recent school shootings, major editing is going on. It wasn't because they find pleasure in torturing us... of course I could be wrong.

alien

Now that I'm thinking of it, in the books it went like that too. Michael became happy with his life as a human when he escaped from the secret compound. He got his emancipation, a place to live, and became more comfortable with his earth family. And Max became catatonic consciousness boy. There weren't any dire consequences for Michael (other than the pain of having to choose between Max and Trevor), but there certainly were for Max. And Liz had to save him, but she did it with the help of all of the group. Maybe whatever is going on with Max in the show will help lead to the TV group also acting together.

Oh, thanks for the thoughts about Off the Menu. I don't know much about it, just that they took it out of order. It's always nice to know that there's a reason for the apparently arbitrary decisions that drive us crazy.

And the whole Alex dreamwalking Is from the dead seems much like Alex's trip to the home planet in the books.

gnite

My mind's been stuck in grief mode for Alex lately, so I haven't given much more thought to Tess, Max, and Memory Retrievel. But what about Cameron and Michael reminds you of Tess and Max? (Considering how very much I disliked Cameron, any comparison to Tess might make me even more suspicious. Right now, I don't know what to think about many of the storylines, except that I want Alex back ).

And didn't Adam die a sort of martyr's death? I think Alex died so possessor Kvar would also go down.

I have a confession to make: You know how I wrote about not wanting to get spoiled? Well, too late! A friend told me how to download epis - and I've already seen HOM and CYN. I know, I know - I'm really bad when it comes to curiosity

Well...

I've scanned some Dido pictures - from the concert I went to on thursday. I'm waiting for them to pop out in my photopoint account. Does anyone fancy to see them? Should I post them here or rather PM them... You tell me, right?

"Convention" is up next tomorrow. I can't wait...

Mel

And I was also thinking of Adam while watching Alex's funeral. It was good that Alex was able to have a real funeral - complete with the people who loved him there to remember him and try to support each other (Michael was absolutely perfect with Maria throughout the episode). And the memorial at the school was a nice touch, although I could see why it upset Maria, since they didn't really know and love Alex the way the group did. Adam may not have been able to have a big ceremony, but he did have all the people who he loved and who loved him there, remembering him and missing him. Just as Alex will be missed. And both deaths were horribly unnecessary and premature, and, if Liz is right, alien-related. Adam's death was random - Dupris just killed him to prove a point. The death of any of the others would have done just as well. We have yet to see, but I think Alex's death was more specific.

I want Alex back!

Melanie - I loved the Convention! Hope you enjoy seeing it. It's one of the episodes that I've only seen once, because WB didn't show it in repeats, but I remember that it was very important in terms of Valenti's character.

In the books, Adam dreamwalks Liz to try and tell her that he isn't in control. Alex seems to come to Isabel's dreams to help her move on with her life. He says that he won't be coming back again, since it's not helping her. He doesn't seem to be giving her any messages about his death, just reassuring her that he did in fact love her and that it wasn't her fault. I figured they were just dreams that Izzy had of what she wished was true, although the romantic part of me did consider that perhaps Alex's spirit was trying to contact her to let her know how he felt. (If anyone could do that, Alex could. )

I'm looking forward to next week and learning more about what really happened to Alex.

...Alex seems to come to Isabel's dreams to help her move on with her life. He says that he won't be coming back again, since it's not helping her. ...
Anla, here's a later quote from that discussion: quote:Originally posted by jabberwocky:
On the Stargazers thread Labyrnth talked a bout this. She said that this was not true at all. Colin didn't want to leave the show at all. He didn't know a thing till he got the script. And got the cold shoulder when he tryed to make any inquiries as to what was going on.

This stengthens my suspicions that TPTB are trying to beat the Spoiled at their own game by letting out rumors of unhappy actors. Then they would truly surprise us with a returned Alex. But I agree that it would "cheapen the emotions" that were portrayed by the actors and felt by the audience--unless, as you say, it was done carefully. Quite a challenge.

As for the dream walk, when Is asks if he's coming back, initially he says "that depends on you" which I thought was very cryptic and never really negated.

In the books, Isabel grieves over Nicholas, who is more or less evil, and is comforted by Alex. If Alex managed to get Kvar to die in the crash and his own soul is now somewhere in a time warp, then we have a similar plot except Is is not consciously grieving for Kvar and Alex is not comforting her in body. Of course, in the books, he was invisible to her--talking through her closed door. I loved that part.

Then it goes on for a few paragraphs about abductions.How ironic that the Season may end like the books (with a choice about going home) and that the Season may be the last. And both the books and the 2 Season's would probably better if edited into one, coherent piece of work: the books A Single Novel, the T.V. show a movie or two.

So now the TV characters have to make the same choice as the Book ones did. None of the three seemed very happy when Max said that the book gave them a way back to their home planet. At least in this version, Max is (apparently) capable of making a conscious choice for himself of leaving or staying. Although Tess's pregnancy gives them more of a compelling reason to go home now.

I'm curious to see what their responses will be next week to the possibility of going home. Max has a choice to make, which he didn't have in the books, since the Collective Consciousness had taken him over by that point. In the books, Isabel was willing to consider going home since she was interested in Trevor, who asked her to go with him. Romantic feelings influencing her decision-making processes. On the show right now, Isabel wants to get away from Roswell and her memories of Alex. I wonder how far she would be willing to go, and if that will be a consideration in her decision. And then there's Michael - the one alien of the original three who always wanted to find the way home, but has found his home on earth by the time a passage to the home planet comes along. His response is the one that I am the most interested in. In the books, he chose Maria at the last minute. I wonder what he'll choose on the show.

with my paper almost done - and me going back to work and everything, I've a little more time to write. Sorry - I haven't been around lately.

Well, "Convention" and "Blind Date" aired in the meanwhile.

I liked Convention - but it's not going to be one of my favorites. I liked the whole Max/Valenti turn out. Also, when Max said: "Help me, I'm a human caught in the body of an alien" I kind of thought, it's about time he'd admit it. Then I saw "Too bad too late" and it was like it confirmed that thought.

Anyway, totally loved "Blind Date" - even got my little Candy heart melting. Does Maria have an incredible voice, or what?

Well, how have all of you been??

Mel

PS: has anyone started reading Melinda Metz' Fingerprint series??

I've been thinking about the way Liz dealt with the two deaths - Adam's and Alex's. In particular, the way she dealt with those deaths and the way she communicated about them to her parents. In the books, despite her past difficulties with her father, Liz is able to confide in him about Adam and his death, and he is able to try and give her some comfort. I appreciated that part of the story, especially since Adam had a great deal to do with Liz's reconciliation with her father, since he was the one who was there to listen to her when she ran away and to encourage her to talk to her father and work things out. So, it was nice to see Liz being able to turn to an adult in that situation. In the show, however, Liz seems to be continuing with her odd estrangment from her parents. We see all of the other parents comforting their children, but Liz's mother doesn't even know where she is the day after Alex died. I would really love for the show to address the issue of Liz's relationship with her parents some day.

Of course, Liz's grief over Adam was much clearer and simpler. She knew who killed Adam, and it wasn't like she felt all the additional guilt she must feel over Alex's death. Liz didn't drag Adam into a situation which got him killed - as an alien, Adam was already involved.

Good thoughts on the Liz/Adam/Alex comparison! I too feel really bad for Liz, since it seems her against the rest of the world on her quest to find out about Alex' death. In the Show she seems to be in denial about the death or at least she does not allow herself to be sad and live the loss. While in the book she allows herself to give in to her sadness.

Mel

I'm trying to remember something from the books. Does it ever mention whether or not Michael and the others ever saw any of the alien autopsy specials or videos? I remember that Michael read a lot about alien myths in the books, like he mentions doing on the show. I was just wondering because of how much it would add to their fear of humans. I always felt badly for the 3 aliens in the Pilot when they watch the re-enactment of the crash. It must have been horrible for them to watch all these humans cheering and celebrating the event that left them alone and trapped on this planet (not to mention what they must have thought would happen to them if that same crowd knew what they were).

I really liked the way that was brought up in the Pilot and was disappointed that the plot digressed into an X-filesish Evil Aliens and clones scenario. I still long for a simpler plot of real aliens that look human but are thought to look like "Monsters."

We just saw "Independence Day", which I thought was excellent. I totally loved the scene between Maria and Michael. That must have been the sweetest scene in the Show so far!!! Poor Michael!
Anyway, I couldn't help but think that there were quite a few parallels between the Show and the book.

First, isn't it funny that Michael always uses the window (in the Show and in the books?) - seems to be his trendmark

Then I kind of thought it was nice to see him turn to Maria for comfort. Him crying infront of her does reflect the trust he has in her. A guy like Michael doesn't cry in front of everyone. So like in the series, Michael seeks comfort with Maria - not Max and Isabel.

Well, there were a lot of things - but I'm still a little busy. I just wanted to share the most obvious thoughts I had. Hope everyone is fine

See you around, Mel

And that's so similar to the books. Several times, Book Michael comments about how Maria's room is his favorite place in the world. He loved to go there and always felt safe and relaxed there. And neither of the two Michaels had that many secure places in the world.

Well, that would be interesting. A part of me is curious about what their home planet is like (although another part of me wonders about whether or not they can even survive on the home planet in their human bodies, but that's a totally different question ). I've always wondered what Alex was doing in the books when he was on the home planet. Besides being scared out of his mind, that is. But as much as I would love to have Alex back, if they could do it well, I have a feeling that Alex really is dead. But I guess we'll see.

I was thinking - doesn't the promo showing the jeep fly off a cliff next week seem familiar to anyone? Looks like they're using the decoy idea from the first book. Of course, the difference being that in the book they drove the car off a cliff to convince Valenti that the aliens were dead. This time around, if they are trying to fake their own deaths, which is my guess, I'm sure Valenti will be right there helping.

On rewatching OTM, I noticed how Max going to Tess's room was reminiscent of the way the Collective Consciousness drew him in.

One possible "bad" guy in the books who became a good guy was Adam. I remember not being sure about him at first. When he attacked the bunny I got nervous, and I was very concerned when he turned Valenti into a giant pile of ash and tried to do the same to Max. But I ended up loving Adam. He was so sweet.

I really hope they don't accidentally send any of the humans to the home planet in the show. I can't imagine Kyle being happy about ending up on their alien planet.

But I beg to differ with you (as FM would say ) in that I think Kyle would be quite content on Antar so long as all the alien girls were ***hot!***

Now, where would you possibly get the idea that Kyle would be only interested in the alien girls? What about his dignity in being dragged off forcibly to another planet? What of his Max issues and the fact that aliens have threatened his family over and over again? Oh, wait. No, you're probably right.

Just kidding - but keep in mind that we don't know what the aliens look like on their planet. So what the aliens might consider "hot" and what Kyle would consider "hot" could very well be two totally different things.

I'm curious about tonight's episode. We'll get to see the TV Pod Squad faced with the same dilemna as the Book Squad - stay on earth or go home? I can't wait to see if their answers are similar or different.

And this time Max is conscious enough to have a choice. Or does he? If it is because of the baby, then Max might be just as trapped by his "Destiny" as Book Max was by the Collective Consciousness (which goes along with my opinion that both are equally enslaving to the aliens).

And that's so similar to the books. Several times, Book Michael comments about how Maria's room is his favorite place in the world. He loved to go there and always felt safe and relaxed there. And neither of the two Michaels had that many secure places in the world.
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Hello

I too thought this must have been the sweetest scene in the entire Show. I did enjoy the scenes when Michael would go to Maria in the book. Though I've seen "Sexual Healing" the other day and I thought that was such a good episode too. Made me think I might be a little Dreamer deep inside my Candy Heart too...

Anyway, I got the entire first season on Video and I'll be able to see the second soon. So I'll be able to talk a little more with all of you.

Shapeshifter - is that the real name of the home Planet? In the books you never get to read about it.

Bye-now, Mel

They weren't cloned and put into pods. the pods are like eggs...right I mean do the females of alein life just lay them like chickens and the pods grow as the featus grows???. just curious

They weren't cloned and put into pods. the pods are like eggs...right I mean do the females of alein life just lay them like chickens and the pods grow as the featus grows???. just curious

Good question - I actually wondered myself. It is a little clearer in the TV show, don't you think?

Mel

The Skin waitress's name was Courtney. I thought the character's roles were very similar - they were both there spying on Michael, apparently trying to betray him but ending up helping the Pod Squad, and both caused even more complications in the whole Michael/Maria/Isabel situation. Although I think that Michael had more feelings for Cameron in the book than he did for Courtney, although in neither case were his feelings for her very strong. More attraction and infatuation than actual love (we don't see much feeling other than responsibility in Michael's actions towards Courtney, and even Book Michael finally admits that what he felt for Cameron was nothing like the extent of his feelings for Maria).

Now to the book comparison part of my post :

As Michael burst out with his sudden decision to stay on earth (although I wonder how sudden it was - I suspect the idea was floating around in his mind all that time), I was so very reminded of the books. In them, too, Michael is all ready to leave and go through the wormhole back to the home planet, but changes his mind at the last minute because he realizes that he can't leave Maria. In both the books and the show, Maria becomes Michael's home and the reason to stay on earth.

The way the two Michaels dealt with their upcoming departure from Maria was very different, though, and rather surprising. Up until the second half of this season, I would have said that Book Michael was more open with his emotions and towards the humans in the group. Not that he wasn't capable of holding his emotions in and keeping secrets, because he was, but as we've mentioned, all of the book characters seemed more innocent and emotionally healthy than their TV counterparts. Yet Book Michael built up this distance to Maria as the time came for him to leave, while TV Michael took the exact opposite approach, by letting Maria see him and then making love with her. Book Michael tried to deal with the fact that he was going to leave her by trying to keep himself from caring too much, while TV Michael took advantage of the time he had left.

Melanie - Hi!

Anyway, moving on: Tess going off in the Granolith was such a relief, and much like in the books when they were putting Elsivan and the Bounty Hunters in the Wormhole. And of course Alex getting caught in the Wormhole parallels his more fatal experience in the TV show.

So then, Tess mindwarping as part of an agenda is definitely like the Collective Consciousness.

I've never felt comfortable with the while Destiny/Mommygram thing. It is like the Collective Consciousness - some group of aliens who don't even know the Pod Squad have decided to use then as pawns in their own little struggle. Does Mommy even care about her children or what they might want? I doubt it. They aren't given a choice or say in their destiny - they're simply told that this is who they need to be with and what they need to do. Of course, their refusal to go along with that is similar to Isabel's (and we would assume Michael's) refusal to join the Consciousness in the books. Interesting that TV Isabel never seemed to even give Destiny any real consideration, as she never considered joining the CC in the books, while both Maxes ended up in the Consciousness and following his "Destiny" mandate for a while at least.

And I was actually referring more to Michael showing Maria his soul and telling her how much he loved her than to what came after (although I can see where you would think that).

But I really had trouble with that post-coitus M/M scene. It was way too emotionally casual for 2 unwed teens. Giving the characters the benefit of the doubt, I'm assuming this was an editing issue. I heard Katims had wanted a 2-hour finale. But still, I think this is another example of the TV show portraying them more as the twenty-somethings that the actors are, whereas the books have them be teens.

I downloaded "Departure" but wasn't able to see it yet (had to finish up my paper - which by the way is completely done now. YAY !!!!)

But I've seen six of the season 2 epis and I really should write things down. I always get thoughts on how some scenes remind me of the books and when I want to post them - I can't remember.

Still wanted to scoop in and say hello. Did I ask if anyone is reading Melinda Metz's "Fingerprints" Series already??

Mel

So, yes. I agree with those who have posted that the tv characters act in much more adult manner than they do in the books. I always found the book characters to be much more realistic of actual teens. I have a hard time remembering at times that the tv characters are supposed to be high school students. I wonder if this is just because tv always tries to make high school students act in that way, or if it's a result of the situations they've been exposed to along the way. And to be honest, I could imagine meeting the book characters in real life. As much as I love the show, I'm never able to get that lack of distance or suspension of disbelief.

On another topic: What did everyone think of the way Tess went back home as compared to the wormhole they used in the books? As I was watching, I kept getting nervous that Max was going to be accidentally sucked into the Granolith along with Tess, the way Alex was sucked in to the wormhole in the books. I kept yelling at him to get out of there.

On wormholes, they are used for time travel, which would be necessary in order to go a great distance without aging to death. So that explains how they were able to customize the granolith in TEOTW.

I have to rewatch Departure and pay more attention to the very ending, when the Granolith shot Tess back to the home planet. I was too busy being shocked by Michael staying and Tess killing Alex to really notice any small plot details (like the whole mountain starting to shake and crumble ).

Now, I can understand why nobody in Roswell would notice the mountain shaking and being destroyed when the Granolith worked. It's all the way out in the desert, away from everything. But I do have to wonder why nobody heard anything or saw anything strange when a wormhole opened up in the Crashdown and in the UFO museum in the books. Perhaps it wasn't as loud and destructive as I pictured it to be.

i agree that tess is like the Collective Consciousness...

eM

Something I really liked about the books was it was very specific when Max was acting not like Max, and Liz recognized it and stated it out loud for the reader. So that even though it was difficult to get past the words coming out of Max's mouth because it was Max but it wasn't Max, and it was much easier to handle and sympathize with Max than the last 6 episodes of this season when we don't know for sure which parts if any were a mindwarp, and we may not even find out before it's too late, i.e. the relationship ending.

One other thing that was nice about the books is they stayed true to the characters. They never deviated from Liz and Max are soulmates. Liz's desire to be with someone, Adam, made sense with how Maxlike he was and how when she kissed Max he slipped into the consciousness, and it was always very clear it was a Max substitute.

I wish Melinda Metz had written more than 10 books. I ate them up too quick.
--Lia

KKB: Something that actually got dropped [from the book] that I was disappointed about, was that the Isabel character was obsessed with order. When she’d get upset, she’d go up to her room and she will dump all of her lipsticks onto her bed and rearrange them. Because they are all in perfect order all of the time. I thought that was a really interesting character trait, and I’m sorry we lost that.

Another big thing that got dropped that was really cool was that Liz had a sister who had died of a drug overdose, which is why her parents were so protective of her. I always thought that we should at least tease [that idea], so we could bring it in at some point.

How closely did you want to tie in with the book?

KKB: It’s not a question of how closely. The book is a template and you turn the book over to somebody like Jason [Katims] and he [adapts] it and makes it filmable for this medium. By design, 60 or 70 percent of what’s in the book isn’t going to make it in the one-hour pilot.

As most people know, Jason completely changed the ending of the pilot. At first, I definitely resisted that, but then we never came up with anything that was as good until we came up with the festival idea. I thought that was absolutely the most brilliant choice that was made about the pilot.

Thanks for posting that article excerpt. Another person who wanted them to include the whole Rosa storyline!

hkiara - I'm not really a Dreamer, but I never doubted that TV Max loved Liz. I didn't think Tess negated that. In both the books and the show, Max acted in ways that were unusual for him. In the books, his behavior changes were caused by external forces - namely the fact that he was being controlled by the consciousness. It was very clear what was happening to him, and it was an easy matter to find a way to solve it and snap him back to being Max - break his connection to the consciousness (easy to figure out what to do, although not quite as easy to actually do it). On the tv show, though, his problems, while caused by external forces like Liz leaving him, being kidnapped and tortured, and learning about his "Destiny", were more internal. I really felt all season that Max was dealing with some serious post-traumatic stress and depression problems. He wanted more than anything to be able to protect his family and to have Liz in his life - the one person he had always wanted and who made him feel human ever since they were children. Instead, she left him and (he thought) slept with Kyle. And no matter what he did, he couldn't keep his family safe. He wanted things to go back to the way they were, and that wasn't possible. So, he acted in more and more bizarre ways. While I hated seeing him act towards Isabel in such a cruel way when he forbade her to go to college, I wasn't too terribly surprised. Max had always been desperate to control events and people around him in order to keep them safe - he just was taking that wish for control to extreme lengths. Note that I'm not excusing his actions, but I can see where they were coming from. Sex with Tess wasn't really about love at that point, it was about holding on to the only person who wasn't angry with him at that time. Right before it, Max was talking about how he had lost everybody. Even before finding out that Tess killed Alex, back when I was at least trying to keep on open mind on the whole Max/Tess thing, I thought their sleeping together at that point was a mistake. None of them were in any shape emotionally to make huge life decisions. But I don't think it meant that Max didn't love Liz (and remember, Liz had just broken up with him again, so it's not like he was cheating on her). I feel that the show, like the books, has made it very clear that Max and Liz are in love (and soulmates and all that). Anyway, just my thoughts.

I agree with you - I wish there had been more than ten books, too.

And yes, Anla, I'm ready when you are to bring Loose Ends into the discussion. For one thing, Max and the others are described physically like the actors on TV.

So let's see - what events have occurred to make the teens on the show have to grow up quickly and take on adult responsibilities? Michael and Isabel have both killed people in self-defense. Max was kidnapped by the FBI and tortured. Max now has a child that he needs to rescue from his archenemy. Not to mention the fact that they learned they are the reincarnated leaders of an alien planet, and they are supposed to rescue this entire species from their evil overlord. No wonder they're so much more stressed and seem to have so many more psycho-emotional problems than their book counterparts.

I was thinking today of the theme of betrayal in the final episodes of this season. The group was divided in half, along alien and human lines, with Liz and Max in particular turning against each other. Liz never really seemed comfortable with Max's alien status, and it was easy to see that Max felt she was accusing him of being the alien cause of Alex's death. In the book series, Max also felt that she was turning against the alien part of his nature towards the end, when she expressed dislike of the way he kept connecting to the consciousness. In both cases, the more Max connected to his alien part, the more distance there was between him and Liz. And in both cases, his alien side ended up something that betrayed him - the Consciousness made him into a zombie and tried to use him to accomplish its goals and Tess killed Alex and almost turned them over to Kivar. It makes me wonder what Max will do next season - continue trying to learn more about his alien side or go back to trying to suppress and ignore it like he did in Season 1.

I also wonder how the issue of Tess's betrayal and Alex's death will play out next season. In the books, Michael has to deal with his brother's betrayal, when he turned on them to join with DuPris. That devastated Michael. But ultimately, Trevor realized that DuPris was the enemy, and he helped the Pod Squad out. He was able to be redeemed, and killed DuPris (again, it wasn't one of the 7 main characters who killed him - they never had to deal with that in the books). Now on the show, they have to deal with Tess not only lying to them, but killing Alex. We saw Max's anger and pain, but not much of anyone else's reaction. I wonder how they'll react to it, once the shock has worn off. And I wonder if there will ever be more of an explanation behind why Tess did what she did next season. Oh, the things to think about while we wait for the new season.

And the whole level of sexual activity on the show is definitely a "departure" from the original books.

It's interesting that the writing in the new Greg Cox book aims at the older audience, but it doesn't even have the same level of sexual interaction between the teens that we see in Melinda Metz' books. But then I heard he's writing another one, so maybe he'll address that later? Melinda did it in a style with which young people (or people who were once young ) could identify. Cox writes at least as well, but I question his ability to handle this aspect of the characterizations.

I won't refer to anything specific in the Cox book untill we've all read it.

Over on the Liz's Importance thread the issue of Isabel going away to college has been brought up (this was mentioned in an interview with writer Ron Moore). They were questioning why it would be Isabel graduating early instead of Liz, as Liz is supposed to be the "brainy" one. But in the books, I seem to remember Max and Isabel did very well in school because they didn't need to sleep much. Or did Isabel not keep her grades up?

This particular storyline confuses me, I have to admit. First off, all of the kids seem to be in the same grade in school, since they're always in the same classes. (which isn't the case in the books) But Isabel is older than Max? I justified this to myself but thinking that maybe their parents just gave them arbitrary birthdays that were different from each other so they wouldn't have to share their special day, but that Isabel's was only a couple of months ahead or something like that. But then we have Isabel graduating early? Now, her parents are nice people but admittedly not the most observant in the world. Still, wouldn't they have noticed that Isabel was taking all those extra classes so that she could graduate early? And why Isabel? I'm inclined to think it was just part of the whole wanting them to be older and have more mature storylines idea the show seems to have been having. And it gave another opportunity for her to fight with Max. But it still confuses me. Oh, well. If I wasn't confused by some things on the show, what would I have to think about over the summer?

The books make a point of all three (4 counting Adam) of the aliens being very smart. When they came out of the pods, they knew nothing, but they were able to catch up quickly. Maybe that was part of their species' adaptive talents. The show has also mentioned that they're quite intelligent, so I could see Isabel being able to graduate early. I just don't know why she would want to. I mean, I can get why she would want to now, since she's mourning Alex and wants to get as far away from her memories of him as possible. But why before that?

On the whole subject of their being intelligent, I love it when the show does include a reminder of that. I was cheering when they all turned to Liz to translate Larek's explanation of the Gendarium - it was so nice to see the show recall Liz's status as science whiz. And Michael's dictionary definition to Max was so funny back in the prom episode. Apparently, Max also forgot that just because he doesn't go to school often, that doesn't mean Michael isn't as smart as he is. Senior year's a big deal for most teens. Maybe we'll get to see more of them actually going to high school next season.

quote:...The books make a point of all three (4 counting Adam) of the aliens being very smart. When they came out of the pods, they knew nothing, but they were able to catch up quickly...And Michael's dictionary definition to Max was so funny back in the prom episode...[/B]Thanks, Anla, I don't have access to the books anymore, so I wasn't sure that I remembered it correctly. Then there's also the comment by the Principal in Sexual Healing that Max and Liz are both excellent students. And then in 285 South Michael quotes a piece from James Joyce, citing the page number from memory.
But remember in the first season when Nasedo is helping Max to escape the Special Unit and he asks Michael to "scan" the floor plans, and Michael says he can't. I suppose that was supposed to be done with some trick other than an excellent memory.

Except for Isabel, they're all going to be seniors next year. It will be time for them to start thinking about college and career choices. I wonder what they'll pick. Liz wants to be a scientist. That's easy. I wonder about the others, though. I don't recall any mention of their career interests in the books or the show. Well, there was that episode with Ms. Topolsky where Alex was interested in becoming a psychiatrist and Isabel wanted to be a supermodel, but I don't remember any other mentions. Do any of you?

That's an interesting point about Michael's memory retrieval vs. "scanning". Maybe Michael and the others have good memories, almost photographic, but they still need to take the time to get the information into their brains at first, so they aren't good at speed reading?

sorry for not having been around lately. But I had my right arm casted & typing only with the left was just not fun

But beeing totally useless, I've been able to re-read all the 10 Roswell books. I can't believe I loved them as it was the first time I read them.

Mel

RoswellRookie3 - I agree. Personally, I had lots of problems with the Mommygram. At first, I wasn't even sure I believed it, but when I finally accepted the whole past life thing, I just kept thinking how horrible it was to expect them to just ignore who they were and what they wanted in order to become pawns in some war on a planet they had never heard of (and which they still don't know the name of - not on the show at least - sorry, one of my pet peeves there ). What they want isn't important - Max is supposed to be king and be with Tess, Michael is supposed to protect them and be with Isabel. Doesn't matter what they've been through in this life, that's their job. Doesn't matter if Max loves Liz. Doesn't matter if Michael has seen enough violence in his life on earth as it is and doesn't want to be warrior boy. Or if Isabel had a perfectly happy life, being as human as she could, and was starting a relationship with an absolutely perfect boy. I don't think the aliens even considered the possibility that they might have grown up into different people than they were before and that they might want different things out of their lives. They aren't viewed as individuals with their own hopes and dreams, but as part of some plan created by others. In that way, it was very much like the collective consciousness. The consciousness didn't think about what Max wanted when they took him over and had him tell Liz that he didn't love her. All the consciousness cared about was achieving its goal - getting the Stone of Midnight.

I don't think either the consciousness or the Mommygram mean to be cruel to the aliens. I just don't think it occurred to the aliens in either case that these were individuals they were dealing with, not game pieces to be used and moved around as they wanted. Their focus was on the "big picture", the fate of their alien planet, not on the concerns of a few individual aliens. I guess they're believers in the whole "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one" philosophy (hey, wonder if they've ever met the Vulcans ).

And it's interesting that in both the books and the show, Max is the one who ultimately becomes the most entangled in their alien situation, when he always wanted to be more human than alien. Perhaps it comes as part of his unoffical/official status as leader.

I wish they showed the dream 'bubbles' that Isabel can see when she dreamwalks. In the book it's descriped as feeling soft and soapy when she steps through.

I also wish they would give them all a scentm, musical note and aura color. Liz was ylang ylang, Michael was eucalyptus (sp?), Adam was grass, etc. It helped me to picture who they were on the inside.

Well, just wanted to add my .02 cents. Thanks!

[/B]

My arm is doing way better. The cast got off on Friday. But I am really glad I'll be on vacation next week. Aaaah Greece!! Can't wait to get to the beach. I - like Michael - love the smell of the beach

Mel

As much as I **hate** that line, I have to ask, "Now what do we do, Max?"

You know when I re-read the books, I started wondering about one thing. Hope someone can help me out.

Mr. Manes turns out to be an Clean Slate agent, just like Valenti. To track down DuPruis he uses this Clean Slate device, that in a later episode Maria, Liz, Alex, Adam and Max use to track down Isabel and Michael. I was just wondering if that device existent, how come Sheriff Valenti didn't use it before to find out who the aliens were. Of course, that would have spoiled the whole storyline.
What do you think?

Mel

Did you like Starman? I don't remember much about it (I saw it years ago, I have slightly better memories of the tv show than the movie) but I do remember that I was crying at the end (like Maria, only without the connections she had). I remember while reading the book that I was thinking about how appropriate it was for her to be watching that movie at that time, since she was also dealing with her alien leaving earth.

Melanie - I'm glad that your arm is doing better now.

You're going to Greece for vacation? That sounds like fun. Enjoy yourself! While at the beach, keep any eye out for any cute looking aliens. I still get a kick out of picturing Michael playing at the beach. I can imagine the Book Michael doing that, but my mind just can't picture TV Michael frolicking in the water. Well, it can picture it, but it keeps laughing at the mental image.

You raised a good question. I don't really know why Valenti didn't use the device. I'm about to start a re-read of the series as soon as I finish the new book (which I finally got around to buying ), and my memory of details is a little fuzzy at the moment. I can come up with two possibilities. One, the device was perfected and released to Clean Slate agents after Valenti was incinerated by Puppet Adam, so he never had a chance to use it. Two, Valenti was operating as a rogue Clean Slate agent, so he wasn't totally in the loop about all the newest inventions. Alex's father insisted that Clean Slate's mission wasn't to capture and kill all alien life, and he didn't take any steps to do anything bad to the Pod Squad once he learned that they were aliens, so maybe he was telling the truth. This seems quite different from Valenti's goal. So, maybe there was a division in Project Clean Slate? I don't know, but it's a point I'll keep in mind while rereading the books.

shapeshifter - As annoyed as I was with some of Liz's behavior in the final episodes of the season (not that Max was being terribly objective either), you are correct - she did come through and save Max at the end from going back to the home planet and being killed by Kivar. I enjoyed seeing Max and Liz working together in Departure, rather than arguing and refusing to consider the other's point of view.
In the books, it was so much more of a romantic "soul-mate" rescue, what with her molecules finding his and helping them to reform their physical bodies. It was just a Max/Liz thing. The others were busy downstairs opening the worm hole. In the show, Liz had help in figuring out Tess's betrayal from Maria and Kyle, although it was Liz who made the first leap to realizing it was Tess who had mindwarped Alex. So, it wasn't as romantic a rescue (although then Max and Liz did reconcile and he admitted he always loved her). But I was glad to see that Maria and Kyle were also part of the rescue effort (even if I absolutely hate the fact that Kyle is now going to have to live with the memory that he helped Tess cover up Alex's death). I love it when the humans get to help save the day. The books were so great in that regard, and the show seems to be getting back to that after the very start of the season. My favorite episodes are still the ones where the humans and aliens work together.

Speaking of which: I recently rewatched Departure. The first time around, I had noticed the similarity of the ending to the ending of Destiny last season - the kids standing on the cliff in front of the pod chamber, someone asking Max "What do we do now?" or something to that effect (I keep waiting for Max to say something like "How should I know?" - Poor guy). But the second time I watching it, something registered. Last season, it was just the aliens standing together after running off (intentionally or unintentionally) all the humans. This time, the humans were right there with them - Liz, Kyle, and Maria. The group as a whole (sadly minus Alex) were together, without any of the human-alien division. Hopefully, this is a good sign for the future.

I have never read the book series and I only watch the show! I've seen the books in stores and never thought much about buying them. However, I did hear that there are some differences between the show and books, like the characters that are involved!

Does anyone like the book series more than they like the television show? Just curious as to why.

For me, I found a big difference in that I really really liked Adam (I was so upset when he died). He was an innocent. Yes, he may have been a distraction for Liz while she was upset with Max due to the whole catatonic consciousness thing, but he never meant to get between her and Max. Adam liked and respected Max too much to try to take away his love and soul-mate. In fact, Adam felt guilty at times for thinking about Liz too much. Adam couldn't help his feelings for Liz, but he was perfectly happy just to be near her or to visit her in her dreams (although he felt a bit unsure of whether or not that was a "right" thing to do, which is an interesting difference from Isabel's casual dreamwalking). While I don't think Adam would have ever turned Liz away if she had decided she wanted him instead of Max, he wasn't trying to cause them problems.

And Adam liked all of the group, humans and aliens. When he joined in the connection, he was part of the group they all made. Despite having reason to be suspicious of humans (after all, the government kept him locked up all of his life), he was happy to be able to help any or all of them.

Can you tell that I was an Adam fan?

Then there's Tess. She most definitely did intend to be a problem in Max and Liz's relationship. From the moment she hit town, she started to mindwarp Max and try to take him from Liz. Now, perhaps this is understandable behavior, due to the fact that she was raised by Nasedo, who constantly told her that it was her "destiny" to be with Max. I doubt that she had much else positive to hold onto in her life, so she fixated on Max as the solution to her problems. If she could just be with him, then she would have a family. She wouldn't be alone anymore. But her behavior was definitely different from Adam's in intent.

And Tess didn't accept the humans as thoroughly as Adam did. When she first came to Roswell, she tried to convince the Pod Squad that the humans had nothing to do with them, that the four of them should stick together and forget about Liz, Maria, and Alex. Again, I'm sure this was Nasedo's influence. I had thought that she had come to accept the humans over time. She saved Maria from the Skins, and seemed to be part of the group in VLV. Now, I'm not sure. She certainly didn't show much concern or respect for Alex when she mindwarped him and killed him. I find myself wondering how much of the Tess I liked from the second half of the season was real and how much was an act. But I do think that Tess had genuine feelings and affection for Valenti and Kyle. They just don't seem to have been strong enough to stop her from killing Alex, which is a shame.

And there's another similarity between Adam and Tess - they both ended up with Valenti as their foster father. Although TV Valenti did a much more compasionate job of it.

GrhmLz - I would recommend the books highly. They are great reads, and a good way to pass the time while waiting for new episodes of the show. They are very different from the tv show. On this thread, we discuss those differences and the ways in which the show and books are the same. I don't know how you feel about being spoiled, so you may want to take that into consideration when visiting here before reading the series (I know some people hate being spoiled, while others don't mind ). We don't discuss which is better, because we love them both, and they're both so different. Having the books and the show is like having double the Roswell. Which would have to be a good thing, right? I hope you come back and post again, when you finish the books or before.

bubbles - Hi! Please come back once you're caught up.

re Tess & Adam similarities: quote:...a big difference in that I really really liked Adam ...He was an innocent. ...Adam liked and respected Max too much to try to take away his love and soul-mate. ...I suppose Tess might still be proved to have been brainwashed by Nasedo from the day she stepped out of the pod (assuming she did step out of a pod and assuming she wasn't evil in her other life). And in EOTW, Tess tells Kyle that she's not going to wait around for Max. This is a kind of respect for Max's love for Liz.
quote:...[Adam] visit[s] [Liz] in her dreams Adam visiting Liz in her dreams is similar to Tess giving Max flashes last season--but very different too.

alien

Of course, if you go outside the group, there's Nikolas and DuPris. They were obviously anti-human. (Of course, DuPris was anti-alien, too, unless the alien was himself).

I had really believed that Tess was learning to respect and care for the humans, too (although I think her reluctance to wait around for Max in EOTW had more to do with not wanting to be insulted, neglected, and taken for granted anymore than it did with respecting Max's feelings for Liz - and who can really blame her for wanting a life other than waiting around for Max?). I loved Tess's interactions with the Valentis. But then she used Alex, mindwarped him, and killed him. Hardly respectful. It seemed to go right back to her original belief that the humans weren't as important as the Pod Squad was. (And yes, I am sure that was an attitude Nasedo drilled into her mind from a very early age. He caused a great deal of pain.)

alien lover and bubbles - I had read over on another thread about Melinda joining the writing staff next season. I am so excited. I have hope for lots of good storylines, without huge plotholes, and with lots of character development and interaction.

Some of the similarities I noticed:

The aliens get a chance to go home. It's nearly a last-minute thing, and a semi-big deal is made of their last night on earth (TV M/M sleeping together, Isabel visiting Alex's grave to say goodbye, etc, while Book Michael goes to get crullers for the last time and contemplates going to Adam's grave to say goodbye.). Wanting to go home is something they've wanted, but in the end, only one returns, the rest stay, influenced by Michael's decision to stay for Maria.

The two main couples: M/M and M/L are together at the very end after the decision to stay, although neither had been really together for too long pre-this point (especially M/L in both cases). Alex and Isabel are no longer together romantically, but Alex serves as support and a counselor to Isabel to help her sort through her feelings and insecurities. He offers to take her to junior prom in the books (she asks him to take her to junior prom in the show)

Max is (borrowing a semi-CHAD phrase) an irredeemable ass, much near the end, but for different reasons. Book Max is under total control of the cc, therefore not really Max. TV Max is just, well, an ass. Both pretty much come out of this behavior in the last moments, although it made more sense continuity-wise in the books because the real Max never changed to begin with. If only they had used the cc as an excuse for Max's jerkiness in the show!

Ok, there could have been more, but now I'm blanking. Love this thread, and loving the fact that Melinda Metz has joined the S3 writing staff.

~Lara~
--P/A all the way!--
What about you, you like to bounce? - Chris Wolfe

I hadn't really made the connection that only one alien returns to the home planet in both the show and the books. Trevor and Tess have two things in common which make them the ones to leave: 1. They each have pressing business back on the home planet. Trevor needs to help with the rebuilding of their planet's society after the collapse of the collective consciousness. Tess needs to meet up with Kivar and keep her baby from dying (if the baby was in fact sick and it wasn't just a mindwarp designed to get Max back to the home planet now not later - I'm withholding judgement on that until we get more information). 2. Neither Tess nor Trevor had the emotional connections on earth that the others did, the sense of belonging to a family. Trevor had just been on earth for a little while. Yes, he cared for Michael and Isabel, but it wasn't as strong a bond as the 7 in the connection shared. Now, Tess did, I believe, start to form emotional connections with Valenti and Kyle. I honestly believe she was starting to care for them. But then when Alex died, I think she tried to shut down that part of her emotions. She must have known how they would react to learning that she killed Alex (not to mention making Kyle help her cover it up). And then I think the final straw was learning that Max had kissed Liz. Snap. Her final strong emotional connection was gone. So it was easier to leave. (Although I wonder if she would have actually been able to go through with giving them all over to Kivar to be killed - I really hope they give us some resolution/explantion on the Tess storyline next season, even if she isn't back herself).

It would have been nice to have an external force like the consciousness to explain for Max's insanity this season, wouldn't it? He was horrible to Isabel. And it would be easier for him and Liz if he could blame everything on being taken over by an alien force. I hope that next season shows Liz and Max slowly rebuilding their trust and learning to be honest with each other again. They have some issues to work out.

~Lara~
--P/A all the way!--
What about you, you like to bounce? - Chris Wolfe

Hi!

Ray, like TV Milton & Brody (but more like Milton), is the owner of the UFO museum that Max starts to work for. He's mega-into it, like Milton, and has a fetish for The King (Elvis). Turns out, he's also an alien survivor of the '47 crash. He befriends the aliens and tells them about the crash itself, and the evil alien who caused the crash. Sadly, he's killed (Clean Slate, if I remember correctly, right?) when he, Michael, and Isabel go to "rescue" the stones off the ship that Clean Slate stole, in order to help Max with his akino. I think that's right, but it's foggy since I haven't read that one in awhile.

Anyways, he dies in the process, but Max, after joining the cc, gets a few glimpses of his aura, or recognition from a few alien auras that knew Ray before he died. In his will, he left the museum, his car, and the apartment above the museum to Michael, who had been foster-jumping before that.

Also, is there a Ray in the show itself? I don't remember.

~Lara~
--P/A all the way!--
What about you, you like to bounce? - Chris Wolfe

It proves that Laurie DuPree was named after someone the writer, Breen Frazier, knew, not Elsevan DuPris.

Still, can't ignore that it's quite the coincidence. Especially the "DuPris is evil" line by Maria in the book, and the "The Du Prees are evil. E. Vil." line Maria had in the show.

~Lara~
--P/A all the way!--
What about you, you like to bounce? - Chris Wolfe

That is all. Return to actually on-topic posting.

I was never comfortable with Nasedo personally. I couldn't figure out if he was supposed to be a good alien or bad. First I didn't trust him, then I did, then I didn't, then he died. Back and forth I went. But I guess he's back in the "bad" category now that we know he made a deal with Kivar. So, yep. Tess is like Trevor in that she originally allied with a bad alien, and is unlike him in that she didn't realize it and ally herself totally with the Pod Squad.

KitAlexandria - Yes, the Clean Slate agents in the secret compound killed Ray. I was upset about that, although not as much as I was about Adam's death.

I think Ray was the name Alex used while he was working on translating the Destiny book at Las Cruzas (spelling?).

Ibelieve2 - Is October 16 the official date for the season premiere? I've heard rumors of a few dates, but wasn't sure which was accurate.

Haven't been on this thread in ages, since I had to cut it out when I reduced my FF posting a few months back, but I do continue to lurk, since I love you folks. Anla, you kick ass, seriously. The fact that you love Michael nearly as much as I do has nothing to do with my very high opinion

Anyways, decided to post because I am so. very. excited about MM writing for the show. I think she'll be great for bringing the friendships and the non-romantic aspects of the group relationship to the forefront. At least, I hope so. I was very much afraid that without Tess, that we'd see a return to Max&Liz, and Maria&Michael, with Isabel nad Kyle floating off in separate orbits from the rest. Now maybe there's a chance that we'll finally get the group connection that I've always longed for on the show.

I read some speculation on another thread that, now that Michael has finally reached the end of his quest for home, for love, for acceptance, we would see some signs of a more book-like Michael. I remembered what Anla said in thread 1 about Michael in the books essentially being Michael in the show without the Hank factor, as I always thought that was a fantastic observation. So it's very possible that we will see a more happy and carefree Michael joking with the gang in Season 3. I would love for his character to develop that way, and with MM added to the staff, it seems like even more of a possibility.

I am so thrilled about Melinda Metz joining the writing staff you can't believe it. I haven't been this excited since hearing that UPN picked Roswell up. I'm hopeful that this means next season we'll see more of all characters interacting. I'm thrilled that Max and Liz are back together (finally) and I love seeing Michael and Maria. But they're not the whole show. I want to see all of them, including Kyle and Isabel and Valenti (and Amy, too, she's great). And the books always had such a perfect balance of the plots and characters. And if they could actually pull off the connection on the show, that would be even better.

Ya know, if they had ever had a group connection on the show, then Tess probably wouldn't have killed Alex. Either she would have finally become so connected with the humans that she wouldn't have wanted to use Alex the way she did, or the rest of the group would have known that she was betraying them and they could have done something about it. Oh, well.

And I would absolutely love to see more of the confident, open Michael that we've seen in the last half of this season. So many of his earlier problems, I'm sure, came from the years of abuse and low self-esteem that he went through. He never felt that anyone wanted or cared for him. Now he knows that isn't true, and that he has a family right here on earth.

Hopefully, they have all realized how fragile their friendships and family is. Maybe Alex's loss will help them realize that they need to stay close and care for each other, and not waste time with pointless fighting.

By the way, I never had a chance to tell you that I read the fan fic you had recommended way back when, the one based on the books, not the show. I really did enjoy it. Thanks for the recommendation.

Well, not much of a point to this post, is there? I'm looking forward to my rereading of the books. I'm almost finished with Loose Ends, then I'm starting the series again. Should be fun.

But then, in the books, he was remembered and missed when he was gone. So hopefully, the new writers (Yay! I'm still excited about that) will be able to do the same thing, and mention him occassionally.

I think the characters resemble each other more in their plot purpose (being someone for Liz to turn to while Max is otherwise occupied) than in their actual personalities, so much. Of course, we actually knew Adam's personality. We had plenty of time in the book series to get to know him, where he was coming from emotionally, what he was thinking and feeling. We haven't really gotten to know Sean very well. Which is why I still have reservations about trusting him. The show hasn't told us much about him, and he hasn't been given the opportunity to really let us inside his thought processes. I mean, why was he in juvie? Why was he released early? Why is he hanging around Roswell? What exactly is he doing while hanging around Roswell? Is he still in school (obviously not West Roswell, since he's not allowed legally within two blocks of it)? Does he have a job? Does he do anything other than lurk about the Crashdown hoping for food and help Liz break into the high school? I don't dislike Sean. I don't know enough about the character to like or dislike him. And that bothers me. He's been around for approximately half the season, and I don't know anything more about him now than I did when he first showed up. If he is going to be around next season, I seriously hope they give some time to developing the character.

Okay, I admit it. The lack of Sean-related information is my pet peeve at the moment. Probably because I would like to be able to like him after the events of OTM, but can't quite bring myself to, yet. After the experiences with Courtney, Grant, and Congresswoman Whitaker, I have become almost as paranoid as Michael.

One thing, unlike some other new characters on the show, Sean isn't "new" to the lives of the Roswellians. He's related to Maria, he obviously grew up with the others, so it's not like he's a character that suspiciously pops out of nowhere.

I think Sean resembles Adam in many respects, other than their plot purpose. He's interested in Liz, but realizes that her heart right now belongs to Max. He's alienated from the group, but you get the feeling that he'd like to belong (at least, that's the sense I got in HoM). And he's just starting to make friendships with them in Departure, where he's joking around with everyone. He's been apart from human society for awhile, and he's trying to readjust to life.

The point where he seems the most similar, however, is during the sliding scene at the bowling alley. That reminded me a lot of the Empire State Building dream sequence. Sean really wanted to give Liz this carefree moment away from the stress of her life, even though he knew she was rebounding over another guy. He didn't pressure her, he just offered her this space and this time to discover that she could still find happiness and strength away from Max.

I'm glad you liked the fanfic, btw. I love the books, so anything that lets me revisit that world is a good thing. Plus, the M&M sex scene was very, very sweet.

You raise some good points. When Adam showed up (and I really loved Adam, too ), we got to know him as the characters did. And as much as I ended up loving Adam (he was probably my favorite character in the books after Michael), I had the same reservation and concerns about him when he first showed up. It wasn't until after the whole Puppet Adam act was figured out that I (along with the characters) started to really trust and like him. So, I guess that's another way Adam and Sean are similar. I was suspicious of them both at first.

And since the characters all know Sean, I can see them not spending lots of times with explanatory dialogue. But really, is it too much to ask that they just have someone let us in the audience know what he was in juvie for? That's all I'm asking. It would make me so happy. (Oh, well. If there wasn't at least one unanswered question driving me crazy, then it wouldn't be the Roswell that I know and love ).

And Anla, did we ever notice that both the books and the show have the trip to NYC? I had forgotten the book trip. And Liz's method of visiting the Big Apple was quite dream-like!

I hadn't even thought much about the NYC similarities. Good point.

QueenAmidala - The only character in the books who I couldn't imagine based on the book description was Max. I just can't make myself see him as a blond. And you're right - the TV Max is much more secretive and mysterious. Max in the books is much more open and sociable. Keeping their alien secret doesn't seem to weigh on him quite as heavily in the books.

I am rereading The Outsider right now, and I came across something which I can't believe I didn't notice the first time around. You have probably all realized this already, but I thought it was cool. The name of their high school in the books (not West Roswell as in the show) is UFO High School. Ulysses F. Olsen High, which would be UFO High for short. Well, I thought it was cool.

...The name of their high school in the books (not West Roswell as in the show) is UFO High School. Ulysses F. Olsen High, which would be UFO High for short...That is sooo funny about UFO High School! I didn't see that!

And though I have thought from the beginning that Sean was a spy (he showed up right after that Agent Dan left town), I hadn't made the Cameron connection.

Grrr, I really thought I'd have access to the books this summer and time to reread. I was in a book store today and was tempted to buy them, but they weren't all there and were much more than the online price. BTW, the Greg Cox book was there too, in the YA section.

QueenAmadala01, ITA that it was impossible to read the blonde Max descriptions in the books without stopping to "translate" Max into the Dark Eyed Mystery Man that we have all grown to know and love!

Witch Circe, ITA that I wouldn't trade the show for the books, but I do think the blue jelly fish would have 'flown' better in a book.

No, I haven't read the books. I just found this thread to be some interesting reading.

And wow, Melinda answers your questions. How cool is that. Have you all discussed the fact that she has been signed on as a writer for the tv show? (Yea, probably on page 8, right?)

shapeshifter - Yes, well, as much as I have tried to forget Cameron, her storyline did make a big effect on me while reading the books (I didn't much like her, have to admit). If they do make Sean's early release to spy on them, I hope that he eventually realizes he can't do it, like Cameron ended up not turning them all in to the authorities in the books.

Karen - Hi! Haven't talked to you in a while. I got such a kick out of the whole UFO High thing - it's too funny.

Essence - Yeah, it's great how Melinda has taken the time to answer questions. And we've discussed how thrilled we are to have her joining the writing staff for next season. We hope to see more of the group interaction that was so great in the books.

I don't know why you can't get in to page 8. I just tried, and was able to without any problem. But anyway, here's what we discussed on that page: 1. The way that the Mommgram/Destiny message and Tess's mindwarps compared with the collective consciousness in the books 2. Why Isabel was graduating early, rather than Liz or one of the other characters and 3. How the characters seem like teen-agers in the books, but they are acting much more "adult" in the tv show, especially with Michael and Maria having sex and Max now being a teen father.

I can't recall if we discussed this or not, but I just got to the part in the books where Isabel dreamwalks Alex to try and get his vote for Homecoming Queen (a difference there - in the books, Isabel dreamwalks Alex for a very selfish reason, while in the tv show she dreamwalks him for something more vital - to find out if he'll betray them to Valenti) and I was thinking about something. In the books, Isabel and the others can effect the dreams of the people they are dreamwalking. Isabel actually interacts with Alex. But in the tv series, Isabel is simply an observer. I think she may have talked with Maria in Monsters (I'm not really sure), but she never changes what's going on. Even when she dreamwalks Max, she can't change things. He's in charge of his own dream. He has the FBI doctors force her to leave, even though she's screaming that she doesn't want to go. And in the HC, Isabel is just watching Liz's and Kyle's dreams. But then in BIY, Kyle does seem to be affecting the dream of that supermodel. Or maybe not, maybe he's just talking with the girl, but she's the one coming up with all the decisions and the situations. Aaaah! Of all the powers, Isabel's dreamwalking is one that confuses me the most. I'm waiting for them to finally stop calling it dreamwalking and call it telepathy or something, since she's able to do it when people are awake. Anyway, I wonder if Isabel in the books simply has more control over her dreamwalks because she does it more often than in the show (it seems like Book Isabel does this almost everynight - she's bored since she only needs the two hours of sleep and has identified the dream orbs of everybody in Roswell) or if it's just a difference between the book and the show.

I'm also wondering if Season 3 will open with any reference to the events of the 2 Greg Cox books that will have been released and are supposed to take place post-Season 2.

Liz wasn't changed in the books, except that all the humans involved in the group connections were able to use their mental energies more when working with the aliens. They were always strongest when the humans and the aliens were connected. I would love to see that more in the show. Which reminds me of how Liz wasn't able to reach Max alone in NYC, but she could work with Isabel to do so. They were stronger when working together.

I've become so accustomed to the adorable Kyle we have on the tv show, that I've forgotten how truly obnoxious he was in the books. Both of the Valentis were portrayed more sympathetically in the show, even at the start. Sheriff Valenti might have been the "bad guy" hunting Max, but we in the audience could understand why (his father's past, his urge to protect the people of Roswell) and even when he was busy following Liz around New Mexico and Texas and threatening Max, we could understand Kyle's feelings, too. He did care for Liz, and we could feel a bit sorry for him getting dumped so suddenly by Liz. (I don't think Liz did anything wrong in that situation, but I can see where Kyle would feel differently). But in the books, Valenti is always the bad guy, and while we might be able to sympathize with Kyle a bit in the later books, in the first one, he's just this jerk who keeps bugging Liz, despite the fact that she's made her lack of interest very clear.

Can I have my Roswell back, please? I sent in Tabasco sauce, like I was supposed to... <sigh>

This is my first post on this thread. I just finished the 10th book today: Wow 1700 pages of Roswell! It was a fun way to enjoy Roswell with storylines I don't know the ending to.

The whole time I was reading I was making parallels to the show. I avoided this thread until now 'cause I didn't want any book spoilers. I read your introduction and everything posted post-Departure. I just wanted to say that I'm very impressed! Right now I really don't have anything to add--just wanted to compliment you on your work :smile: !

Thanks.

P.S. Hello to my friends from the LizMyth thread, shapeshifter and Reggie.

And DreamerAtHeart,
at http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/lizmythology/index.html , in the 3rd column, I have a link to the first thread on Comparing the Books and Show.

Although I do have to admit that Pilot Valenti was definitely menacing, particularly in the Crash Festival scene, when he was shoving Max around and giving him his speech about how Max didn't have any rights, and that he was smart too, and was going to find out what was going on. He did, too, but I wonder if at times he wishes he had just let it go.

DreamerAtHeart - Welcome to the Thread! Wasn't it great that the books were different from the show so that we didn't know how things were going to end? It helped me get through last summer's hiatus to have the books to read. This summer, I am surviving on fan fiction.

It's at: http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum19/HTML/000502.html

I think it's a good idea to keep the discussions separate. A few people tried to discuss Loose Ends on the Roswell board, but the moderators shut them down and said to go to the book board or come to this thread.

Anyway, it's there if you're interested.

DreamerAtHeart, thanks for the link!

shapeshifter - Now that's a much nicer way of referring to Book Valenti's motivations than I ever would have used. "Ultra-patriotism". And here I was just thinking of him as a creep on an ego trip. You're probably closer to the truth, though. I tend to be emotional when watching good tv or reading a good book, and when I dislike a character I really dislike a character. This time around, I'm going to try and get over the whole "Valenti as boogie-man" thing and try to see if I can understand his motivations.
(by the way, was that what bothered you/confused you about the new book? because personally, there were several things that bothered/confused me about the book )

I was going through the pages of this thread, and I found a discussion we had months ago about Max and his tendancy to work out in private in his bedroom. I said that I thought this was more in keeping with Max's frame of mind at the time (wanting to work out his frustrations over Liz and the whole situation, not wanting to admit to anyone that he was not in control or that he wanted to prepare for the upcoming attack by Skins), and that I had a hard time seeing him going off to play a game of basketball with Michael and Alex, like he might have in the books. There was some agreement from other posters. Well, I was just thinking that Max did go off and play a basketball game with Michael. I really did like that scene. I think it just went to show how much better Max was doing emotionally that he was able to be open and share things with Michael. They've come a long way from their stupid fighting and bickering in the start of the season.

Sorry for not stoping by earlier - but I've been on vacation and now I've moved. Everything is just crazy.

I've several things I'd like to talk about but I don't know if it has been discussed yet.

Have you heard that Melinda Metz has joined the writer's staff for season three?

I have a problem with the way alien look like in the books. Doesn't Melinda say that the aline don't have one standard form - but they adapt to whichever environment they are. But then why did Iz transform in the Clean Slate Cave?

Mel

You're correct - in The Seeker, Ray tells Max and Michael that they don't have any particular form, not even on the home planet. Even on the home planet, they change forms to adapt to the specifics of the environment (I wonder if any of their forms resembles that strange creature in Max's flash in AN ). The "grey" form that Michael aks about, the one that's usually shown nowadays in movies, was just the adapatation that they used in space travel because the small body doesn't use much space on the ship and it protects their internal organs.

When Isabel was given the tranquilizer by the scientist at the Clean Slate compound, she starts to change/adapt. The scientist says that sometimes their bodies will adapt even when they don't have to. I guess the adapting mechanism was malfunctioning as a result of the drug in her system. It does sound like she was morphing into a grey, only with a gill in the forehead. I wonder if that was because that form would help her in that situation, or if maybe their bodies had looked like that when they were in the pods on the ships, and so her body was just reverting to what it used to look like.

On a side note, I always really liked that scene because of Alex's response to the situation. He started freaking (as could be expected, poor guy ) and he was worried about Isabel, but even when she looked totally alien, he was still able to focus on the fact that it was Isabel and he kept his calm. Very Alex.

The scientist seems surprised that Isabel had such a strong reaction to the tranquilizer. I guess the book aliens have just as weak tolerances for drugs as the tv aliens seem to.

Maria showed more initiative in the books with telling Alex. On the show, she wanted to let him know, right?, but didn't, because Liz told her not to. Maria kept her "don't tell" promise better on the show.

Well, this will be post # 250, so I'm off to start the new thread. Wish me luck.

Mel