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Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology - Thread #4 (only page 1 of 6 available)

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Topic: Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology - Thread #4

Zero
Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000
Posts: 202

07-04-2000 01:19 PM

To those new to this thread - this is the 4th thread on Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology and the pod squad. The 3rd thread, as the first 2, got too long and might discourage newbies to join into the discussion. If you would like to review those threads, here are the links (Thanks to Shapeshifter for originally identifying these!):

Is Liz More Important to the Aliens/Mythology than we are led to believe? - 183 replies - Last Post: 05-30-2000
Thread 1

Importance of Liz to the Alien Mythology revisited - 189 replies - Last Post: 06-22-2000
Thread 2

Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology - Thread #3 - ~305 replies - Last Post: 07-04-2000
Thread 3

The following is an ATTEMPT to summarize some of the thoughts and theories that have been expressed on the original three threads - BUT I highly recommend that if you want to read an excellent in-depth analysis of how Liz might fit into the alien mythology and her importance to the pod squad - and the survival of the human race for that matter - you spend the time to read the original threads!

First - and foremost - the general consensus is that Liz is important to the alien mythology and the pod squad, and that there is more to the Liz/Max connection than a mere attraction (i.e., a crush). Max often makes comments such as "It was you!" that leads us to believe that her importance to him was beyond the bounds of "normal." How Liz is important is where the fun comes in. Most believe that when Max healed Liz and then caused a reverse connection (Pilot), that something changed in Liz - whether the change was new or an awakening of something already a part of her is not known. Many feel there is something that goes to the core of who Liz is - maybe from a past life on the pod squads planet or a previous life encounter with Max's alien "essence" or human DNA donor on Earth - but that the connection that Max has to Liz started the day he first got off the bus and saw her, and was awakened in Liz by the healing and reverse connection. Many have wondered about Liz's origins - are her parents her birth parents, does she have a connection to the Indians? - and how this plays into the connection with Max.

"Soulmates" seems to be a continuing term used when referring to Max and Liz, and we all seem to think this is done for a reason. Though much is made of Max's Destiny being Tess (aka hamster or gerbil - you pick LSS!)

, many of us wonder if Liz is actually his Destiny due to the use of the Human DNA and where it came from. The use of that DNA could have totally altered the "planned" destiny. There is also much thought given to whether the alien Max played out his "destiny" on his home planet when killed in the conflict that envelopes that place, and that now has an entire new "destiny" that includes Liz. Most of us draw a clear distinction between someone's "destiny" and "duty." We - mostly - also believe that by using human DNA for the pod squad, and the fact that they were raised as humans, causes the issue of "free choice" to come into play. The issue of "nature" vs. "nurture" also arises here!

In the mom 'o gram, many have wondered if the reference to Max's young bride has to be to Tess (The Evil Shape Shifter - Grace Kel

)? Could it be Liz? Why would they send his bride in the first place?

Liz is also viewed - when the episodes are rewatched (multiple times by some of us!) - as a critical element to moving the plot along. She is the one who often initiates the actions that help unravel the aliens' mythology (e.g., thinking of the plan to throw Valenti off the trail in the Pilot, finding the way out of the hidden room at Atherton's place, making the initial contact with River Dog, finding the communicator, etc.). She is a leader that takes action when it is needed, and is the intellect that comes up with the plan. She could possibly be the equivalent to Max - whom we find out in Destiny is the former leader of his people. Could Liz be the human equivalent of Max that is here to help Max save the human race, as well as free the pod squad's people? Liz is also a brain - which is relevant when we find out in the White Room that the pod squad are just very advanced humans. Could her intelligence mean that she has the potential to obtain some of the "powers" that the pod squad have? We will have to wait for next season, but many have expressed that they would NOT be surprised if Liz is capable of some advanced powers in the future, and that her visions may be just a precursor to these. Will she be the one to be able to SEE the evil within?

Liz's visions have been examined in-depth, and it is hard to summarize all the thoughts. Not only has she been able to "see into Max's soul," but also her visions were the reason the second communicator was discovered. Most feel these visions were not coming from Max, but from an outside source - or a source internal to Liz just now being released or awakened. The visions seemed to be from the perspective of the communicator itself or an alien hiding it. Some wonder if others have observed Liz for some time. The shot came from two "strangers" who mention - "We have to get rid of her" - in the background (listen carefully while Liz shows the alien picture to the tourist couple) right before she is shot. Was it intentional??

The picture Liz shows the tourists in the Pilot was supposedly taken by her Grandmother at the crash before the military arrived - a connection?? Many have speculated about Grandma Claudia's involvement and her book about the Ancient Navajo Indians. Could Grandma Claudia have had contact with the aliens previously? Was Grandma Claudia killed intentionally? Did she know that Liz was "special," thus, necessitating her early arrival and that "soulmate" discussion? Is Liz affected or a product of one of these earlier alien contacts? Could Liz have an alien relative?

There seems to be many hints connecting ancient Indian cultures to the pod squad including Machu Picchu in Peru culture highlighted at the UFO Museum, the continuing references to "ancient languages" (e.g., Liz's Blind Date Doug Shellow's major at the UofNM and where the aliens' manual was hidden in the library) and Grandma Claudia's studies. Only coincidence - we think not!

Could Liz's review of her Grandmother's possessions in Season 2 reveal those connections?

Another major topic of interest is Liz's connection to Sheila Hubble! The resemblance between the two is amazing, and other parallels exist (e.g., pictures of both driving in an open-air car with the wind blowing through their dark hair). Plus, the visions that Liz receives from Max/Harding include Hubble's wife at the death scene - meaning it had some significance to him since other deaths we think he was involved in do not flash by. Did he kill her, or did the print come from a failed attempt to save her? Were the fireworks Hubble mentions seeing when kissing his wife the same as the stars Liz sees when kissing Max? Could Sheila Hubble be related to Liz somehow - an aunt, DNA donor? The fact that Sheila Hubble was three months pregnant with a girl seems to be relevant somehow! Could the DNA from the girl have been used for the pod squad - Max maybe - or for Liz?

Liz's ability to "see" into Max/Harding's "soul" again points to the possibility that she may ultimately be able to "see the evil within." What is it that she sees in these visions? Sheila Hubble, Lightening, a wormhole, the high desert, clouds rolling in? Some see sea foam, which is related in mythology to Venus. Is Liz the Venus often referred to? The Venus constellation is often referred to in connection with Liz (e.g., Max in response to Liz saying her parents are on a trip to see Venus in the morning sky says "I thought she was standing in front of me."). Could it be that the four squares (pod squad) plus the fifth star being Liz "complete" the constellation?

Many have wondered if the "bad" aliens might also be from the pod squad's planet, just part of a civil war - therefore, having similar characteristics and powers to Harding's type of alien. Many of US think that the pod squad's people had to have visited Earth before - maybe many times! Could the pods have been planted on Earth at a time separate from the 1947 crash?

Most of us also think that there are more than one alien "watching" the pod squad, and that the tic-tac popping alien (i.e., Hank-killer, one that found them asleep in the desert, and Dr. Margolus' impersonator) is a different alien watching out for them than Harding/Nasedo (assuming he is Nasedo). And what about the person who burns their picture at the end of Blind Date - another alien or one of the above two? Some wonder if Tess and/or Deputy Owen might be a shapeshifter?

Harding's connection to Liz has been pondered often! Why was he so eager to kiss her? Why did he save her from the house of mirrors? Could he have been Sheila Hubble's lover or had some other strong connection to her, with a later connection to Liz? Could he have known Grandma Claudia? Could GC been connected to Sheila Hubble somehow? Harding has done nothing - we know of - to harm Liz, but many are suspicious of his intentions. Is his sole reason for being on Earth to protect the pod squad - and what did he do for all those years before the podsters came out? Why did he miss their hatching, but not Tess'? I have a strong theory concerning how "duty" has overtaken Harding's emotions - but you will have to go to the beginning of the 3rd thread to read it.

Some have noted the reoccurrence of handholding as symbolizing the connection between Max and Liz and the other podsters. Handholding has great significance in the books as a form of joining energy and giving the scooby gang power to fight their enemies, and we believe it does in the show too. The V constellation also looks like the joining of two hands.

Finally - dates seem to be of interest to those on this thread. So, following is a rundown of dates as I've been able to gather them:
1911 - James Atherton born in TN
1927 - Buffalo Visitation
6/14/1947 - Crash (Historical accounts)
6/24/1947 - 9 Disk-like objects spotted flying near Mt. Rainier in WA
7/4/1947 - Milton claims the crash occurred
7/7/1947 - Farmer Brazel (from Foster Ranch) finally reports debris from Roswell crash to sheriff, who calls Roswell Army Air Field
11/14/1947 - Everett Hubble born
1950? - Observation of alien held in captivity by FBI ends (Escaped? Died?)
1952 - Atherton involved in Project Blue Book (Air Force project on aliens)
1959 - Atherton dies (murdered?)
1959 - Milton (Max's Boss) has picture with "alien" shadow next to him outside the Ice Cream Parlor

1962 - Agent Lewis - first head of Special Unit killed in CO
1967 - Agent Delbianco killed in TN
1970 - Sheila Hubble dies (murdered?)
1972 - Silo Murders involving Hubble and Valenti's Dad
3/15/1983 - Max's birthday (Blood Bothers)
1989 - Pod Squad come out of the cave (look like 6-year-olds)
1992 - Max and Isabel "find" Michael again
1992? - Liz and Max "meet" in the 3rd grade for the first time (but may have been in the same school before this, just didn't meet.)
1999 - Agent Daniel Summers killed
9/17/1999 - Max saves Liz - and Roswell is Born!!

I know I haven't covered everything - that would be impossible - and I hope others will help fill in some of the gaps, but this is my attempt to continue the wonderful input, and make this thread more accessible. Lots to think about!! So - theorize away!!! All theories on "Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology" are welcome. OH, BTW (I always have to add this - if anyone from THE WB reads this - WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LIZ/MAX CONNECTION IS CRITICAL TO THE SHOW and that together they make a incredible force to reckon with!!

Zero

[Edited by Zero on 07-06-2000 at 03:19 PM]

ROS-G-MOM
Level 3

Registered: May 2000
Posts: 114

07-04-2000 02:00 PM

.Hi Zero, Can't begin to tell you how much lurking I have done on the past threads on this subject. Glad to see a new continuation. Had to jump in here and just say BRAVO on such a wonderful and pretty thorough update. Can't stay here long right now, but I will return (as soon as I can get all these people out of my backyard!) Happy Fourth and bring on the theories....

rocklowery
Level 3

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 121

07-04-2000 02:02 PM

Hey Zero, you're ahead of schedule!! Great job on the sum-up! I think that covers just about everything! Now on to part 4

I'm so thrilled that I get to be one of the first posts!!!

Anyway...
Here's a new spin on the "Liz is adopted" theory. What if...

When the pod squad was being engineered, they were in the process of adding the alien components to the human fetuses when there was a malfunction in the bride's pod causing the bride to be "born" as a human infant. Maybe tictac took the infant and, instead of destroying the baby as instructed, gave her to his friend Claudia Parker who talked her son Jeffrey and his wife Nancy into adopting the abandoned "indian" baby. Maybe Tictac filled Claudia in on the plans so she could look out for Max and the other podsters. Tictac then found a replacement "essence" to place in the repaired pod as a substitute for the bride's essence which he was supposed to gather from the infant after he killed it. This would account for Liz's advanced abilities in the human brain department and the brown eyes. It has been pointed out that all of the other Podsters (except Tess) have brown eyes. It would also explain why he was attracted to her from the beginning: he instinctively recognized his bride! As for the attraction to Tess, I believe that attraction was hard-wired into their DNA to make it easier for the four of them to hook up if they were somehow seperated, as happened with Michael and Tess. Does this make any sense or am I being too anal about my need for Liz to be Max's bride?

Zero
Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000
Posts: 202

07-04-2000 02:56 PM

Ros-G-Mom - WELCOME from the realm of lurking! Hope your celebration went well - we are off soon to the celebration at our downtown park! Looking forward to your input!

Rocklowery - Yes, your theory make sense - and is very interesting, and no, you aren't any more anal than the rest of us! The adoption twist is an interesting route for the writers to take. It will be interesting if Liz's family history and origins are explored at all in the beginning of Season 2. I personally don't have a problem with Liz NOT being the bride, because I do NOT believe that Max's destiny is determined by who he WAS on the alien planet, but who he IS on this planet - human DNA and nurturing and all! I think that is where the connection to Liz comes into play - somehow!

Zero

ssstar
Level 1

Registered: May 2000
Posts: 26

07-04-2000 04:40 PM

quote:

Originally posted by rocklowery
Anyway...
Here's a new spin on the "Liz is adopted" theory. What if...

When the pod squad was being engineered, they were in the process of adding the alien components to the human fetuses when there was a malfunction in the bride's pod causing the bride to be "born" as a human infant. Maybe tictac took the infant and, instead of destroying the baby as instructed, gave her to his friend Claudia Parker who talked her son Jeffrey and his wife Nancy into adopting the abandoned "indian" baby. Maybe Tictac filled Claudia in on the plans so she could look out for Max and the other podsters. Tictac then found a replacement "essence" to place in the repaired pod as a substitute for the bride's essence which he was supposed to gather from the infant after he killed it. This would account for Liz's advanced abilities in the human brain department and the brown eyes. It has been pointed out that all of the other Podsters (except Tess) have brown eyes. It would also explain why he was attracted to her from the beginning: he instinctively recognized his bride! As for the attraction to Tess, I believe that attraction was hard-wired into their DNA to make it easier for the four of them to hook up if they were somehow seperated, as happened with Michael and Tess. Does this make any sense or am I being too anal about my need for Liz to be Max's bride?

I love this theory. If only the writers are reading these. I don't particularly believe that Max has a "destiny" with Tess. I believe he has or should have his own free will. But the romantic in me tells me there are soulmates and I believe that Liz is Max's. But your theory would explain why Nacedo acts the way he does towards Liz. Maybe Max changed Liz when he either connected or reversed the connection in the pilot by changing her brain cells so that they are thousands of years more advanced like theirs. But if rocklowery's idea of Liz's conception is correct that would explain how she got the flashes of where the orb was buried and pictured the ship crashing. They could have been thoughts placed in her mind along with the essence or genetic memory or whatever by Nacedo or whichever alien had a hand in her engineering. It would explain why Grandma C was so interested in knowing whether she had found a soulmate. Sure do want to look in Grandma's book.

Roswell'sHoneyBehr
Level 3

Registered: Apr 2000
Posts: 138

07-04-2000 04:41 PM

Okay this is about Claudia Parker. You know how people were saying that maybe she had something to do with aliens in the past. Well when Leaving Normal was on the other night I noticed something weird. In one of the last scenes where Liz is saying "Grandma Grandma" and Max walks in and you already know how Max tries to connect to Claudia so Liz can say good-bye. Max tried but then he tells her he's sorry. Then Claudia was suddenly there. What if she was the one who did something to see Liz for a last time. We took it a face value that Max had done it but maybe it was something else. Just a thought and I hope no one has posted this before. Sorry if that happens. I feel like such a loser when that happens.

HoneyBehr

ssstar
Level 1

Registered: May 2000
Posts: 26

07-04-2000 04:44 PM

I haven't read back through all the old posts because my time is somewhat limited but did anyone else notice that when Hubble was showing the sheriff the photos of the dead people that Nacedo supposedly murdered one of the dead people is the clerk at Pepper's cafe who gave Hubble the matches? I had to go back and look a couple of times but I'm sure that was him, with checkered shirt and everything. Why was he killed right then too? And I don't think his name was mentioned as a murder victim - if Hubble went back outside to find his wife murdered and lying on the ground, when did the clerk get murdered and what was the connection?

ssstar
Level 1

Registered: May 2000
Posts: 26

07-04-2000 04:51 PM

I keep forgetting Zero to thank you for those dates. I have a page of dates too - a lot of them covering different things than these and keep thinking I have to go back to the scripts and patch in a lot of the dates when I have more time. I'm sure some of them are important to the plot. This will help a lot. Thanks.

CelestialAngel*
Level 4

Registered: Apr 2000
Posts: 941

07-04-2000 05:55 PM

Zero-
Thanks for starting the new thread! I am so amazed by your ability to summarize so many ideas.
Thanks for mentioning the handholding! I can't seem to get it out of my head that there is some importace to it! I wil be back with some theories later! They are busy brewing in this little head of mine!

GraceKel
Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999
Posts: 784

07-04-2000 06:07 PM

You did a bang up job as per usual Zero getting to the heart of these threads. Thanks for all your hard work. It is truly appreciated.

Rocklowery it totally works for me I love your theory, sure hope TPTB are reading some of our ideas at least.

Okay two things I noticed that could prove interesting I am not sure. I was watching the episode RIVERDOG and at the beginning when they are still in the basement at Athertons house and are looking for a way to escape---it is LIZ who they show from inside the tunnel a pic of her tearing away at the paper covering the tunnel-now I had not noticed this B4 but it reminded me of pic of Max tearing out of his pod---ESPECIALLY IN SLOW-MO(Boy am I breaking my VCR guys with this slow-mo stuff but well...) Could this have any meaning? Well not sure but go back and look if you taped RIVERDOG.

Now this is more like a question-but also in RIVERDOG ep I noticed the Sheriff looking at the photo of Nov 1959-man with silverhandprint which they have been saying could be James Atherton-but as sheriff is looking at this and pic at back of AMONG US with his pic---I thought the dead man pic looked somewhat like DEPUTY OWEN---who just happens to walk in at that moment into the sherrifs office to get him. Am I wrong not sure about this but would like some opinions?

GraceKel
Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999
Posts: 784

07-04-2000 09:22 PM

Just bumping, oh and SSSTAR I know you brought up something good just can't remember what it is so I gotta go back and read again before I comment.

GraceKel
Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999
Posts: 784

07-04-2000 09:43 PM

Yes you are right SSSTAR the guy in the cafe who gave Mr Hubble the free matches is one of the victims as well-the plot thickens.

Nemo
Level 3

Registered: Dec 1999
Posts: 421

07-04-2000 10:02 PM

On the Science Fiction thread [currently Leaving Normal] we are discussing Grandma, among others. I posted a collection from here and other threads as to why it looks to me as if Grandma was murdered by an alien. Which strongly suggests she had special importance, and makes me wonder what it was.

SciFiLN.htm

It was you guys (months ago) who started me thinking about this.... So, thanks.

heifertipper
Level 3

Registered: Apr 2000
Posts: 149

07-04-2000 10:38 PM

GraceKel
I saw the photo of Atherton that you thought looked like Owen and you are right it sort of does, who knows he may be a relative. One of Nasedo's victims was the guy from the Pepper's Cafe. SSSTAR you are right that does not make much sense that Nasedo killed him. When could he have done it? Shouldn't have Hubble been in the way? Why would Nasedo kill those two people and leave Hubble alone? Hubble also says that the picture of the girl was his own work, why would you take a picture of your dead wife? Is it possible that Hubble was not who he says he was and was using the excuse of a crazy man to get to Max? Also where is Deputy Owen? He has been gone for awhile and it is weird that in "Riverdog" that he mentioned that he had not seen that symbol on the necklace since he was on the reservation. Why would he have seen the Alien symbols? I thought that only Riverdog and Atherton knew about Nasedo. This does not have much to do with Liz, but could lead to possible destiny lies.

Tipper

rocklowery
Level 3

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 121

07-05-2000 12:09 AM

Part of my reason for my Liz is adopted theory is because if she was like M/M/I and just didn't know it (as discussed in thread #3), wouldn't she have the same culinary quirks? I would think she would notice this right away!

One thing I forgot to add to my theory is where her DNA came from--Sheila Hubble of course!

One little side note about the Navajo; during World War II the Navajo language was used to send coded messages. It was the only code not cracked by the enemy!

rocklowery
Level 3

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 121

07-05-2000 08:28 AM

Bump!

Zero
Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000
Posts: 202

07-05-2000 10:51 AM

Rocklowery - also, in the "X-Files" there was a Navajo elder who helps Scully translate some of the alien language, and then lots of info on how the Navajo language was used in WWII was wrapped in. I bring this up just because Nutter is an X-File alumn, and it makes sense with the clues dropped so far.

Now I'm going to have to rethink the entire Hubble issue, and how he relates to the aliens given that connection to the Pepper's Cafe. I will have to rewatch the UFO Convention episode to view the pictures. I always thought Hubble was "off" a bit - plus, remember Milton says Hubble had "disappeared" - where did he go?? Wouldn't he have been around looking for aliens? The plot does thicken.

Nemo - I agree the whole Grandma Claudia connection is fascinating. I will have to go read the link when I have more time. Given that Katims wrote that episode, there has to much more to it than appears on face value!

Grace Kel - I'll have to look more carefully, but I don't think Deputy Owen is Atherton, but there definitely might be a connection. And I have always wondered "why" Owen recognized the symbol, but the women shop keeper had never seen it before - since they appear to be the same age rage. Maybe River Dog and Deputy Owen are related - or DO could be a shapeshifter??

Finally - ssstar - I would love to see a list of any dates you have to help fill out mine, too!

Zero

[Edited by Zero on 07-05-2000 at 10:54 AM]

Evid
Level 1

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 16

07-05-2000 12:18 PM

Zero:
Great job on refreshing are memory on all the old threads and starting #4.

I'm so amazed at all the theories everyone has come up with and I often think to myself that I must be reading way to much into this show, but then I come to this thread and it has already been dicussed. Another reason I bring this up is because on LN ( my son noticed this, he just got hooked this summer, he is now one of us ) when Liz is resting her head on Maria's lap and she tells her how Max is avoiding her, Maria's reply is " maybe your just reading way to much into this, you know with everything going on." Do you think the writers were trying to tell us something? Like maybe we should be looking for alot more clues. Well, I've got to say everyone on this thread has rose to the occasion.

[Edited by Evid on 07-05-2000 at 01:38 PM]

Lizabel
Level 1

Registered: Apr 2000
Posts: 48

07-05-2000 01:31 PM

WoW! I just thogut.. okay I will go see what this is all about, but now this is SO deep my head is strating to hurt! It all actually makes sence! I would love these explanations to be on eht show!
Let's see...
Here's my little theroy- never mind, I lost it. These are great though!
Lizabel

Evid
Level 1

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 16

07-05-2000 03:43 PM

rocklowery:
You mentioned that Liz does not have the culinary quirks that M/I/M have but I noticed that Tess or Mr Harding/Nasdeo don't either. If you look on the dinner table on T/L/V they have barbeque sauce but you don't see the famous bottle of Tabasco sauce.
So what do all of you think of this?

rocklowery
Level 3

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 121

07-05-2000 04:17 PM

I don't know about the spicy part, but Tess sure had a thing for sweets. Remember in Crazy when she told Isabel "you can never have too much sweet...(sic)"? Maybe that's how you can tell the bad aliens, perfect teeth but incredible sweet tooths!

Palomino
Level 3

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 202

07-05-2000 04:39 PM

Evid: I don't think Nasedo and Tess wanted Liz to know they were aliens at the dinner table, and were careful not to put out the hot sauce. Also, maybe it is only Tess that would want it. Maybe non-hybrids have different tastes.

As for Liz being alien too, she would have noticed powers and wierd cravings, especially since she is so aware of the podsters' differences.

Maybe she is pre-destined AS A HUMAN to couple with an alien sent to save us. It might be her humanity that makes her the better mate, and maybe the pre-destined one according to Navajo prophesies. Perhaps the Navajo are more clued in to "Destiny" than the aliens are.

ROS-G-MOM
Level 3

Registered: May 2000
Posts: 114

07-05-2000 04:53 PM

Palomino, I like your reference to a pre-destined human for an alien. I'll have to mull that one over in my mind a little while longer..get back to you on that one.

Speaking of the dinnertable scene, and I do realize that maybe this would fit better on the 'misrepresentation of Nascedo' thread, but what are your feelings as to why when Liz asked what he did for a living, did Nascedo say that he worked for the army revamping (?) the abandoned army base? This is the same place where the Unit was hidden, right? It just seemed strange that he wouldn't have just said that he was a 'traveling salesman' or some other occupation. I hadn't noticed this the first ten times I viewed that ep and suddenly one night, there it was in front of me! I really had the feeling that he was baiting Liz. Sorry to ramble...any ideas?

darth maul 214
Level 3

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 117

07-05-2000 04:59 PM

Rocklowery, I loved your Liz is adopted theory. It is quite similar to what I was going to post. Since you posted first, I have no new theories to post. Forgive me if this post sounds like rambling. Jason Katims, you brought up the whole GC angle, please use it.

Palomino
Level 3

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 202

07-05-2000 05:20 PM

ROS-G-MOM :
Nasedo might have disposed of the real Ed Harding (and his daughter?), to take the identity of someone who was moving to Roswell so he wouldn't look suspicious. He could be "hiding in plain sight" and staying close to the FBI by working on a low security job in the area. Anyhow, when talking to Liz, he was not specific about where he worked, or what base he was working on. To make himself more credible, he had to stick with his story, incase she had already found out something (like Michael seeing the military escorting him - WHICH I AM STILL SUSPICIOUS ABOUT! THAT WAS NOT NORMAL PROCEEDURE!).

The whole scene at the Hardings was very creepy, and I don't think the looks he and Tess gave Max were right for the "Destiny" thing. I don't trust him, but I do trust Tictac.

Evid
Level 1

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 16

07-05-2000 06:33 PM

Palomino:
Yes, the hot sauce would be a dead giveaway. I just didn't think that Tess or Harding knew about this little quirk of M/I/M or that Liz would notice it. I guess this is one thing they failed at hiding because that's what made the sheriff suspicious in the first place.
rocklowery:
I forgot about that sweet episode, but didn't Isabel say it was spicy with sweet? I guess I might be reaching, but I just know that Tess just does not belong with Max. I'm just searching for any clue that might prove it.

Lizabel
Level 1

Registered: Apr 2000
Posts: 48

07-05-2000 07:37 PM

quote:

Originally posted by Evid
I guess I might be reaching, but I just know that Tess just does not belong with Max. I'm just searching for any clue that might prove it.

I'm with you Evid.

Fieryangel
Level 3

Registered: Jan 2000
Posts: 487

07-05-2000 07:59 PM

quote:

Originally posted by ssstar
quote:

Originally posted by rocklowery
Anyway...
Here's a new spin on the "Liz is adopted" theory. What if...

When the pod squad was being engineered, they were in the process of adding the alien components to the human fetuses when there was a malfunction in the bride's pod causing the bride to be "born" as a human infant. Maybe tictac took the infant and, instead of destroying the baby as instructed, gave her to his friend Claudia Parker who talked her son Jeffrey and his wife Nancy into adopting the abandoned "indian" baby. Maybe Tictac filled Claudia in on the plans so she could look out for Max and the other podsters. Tictac then found a replacement "essence" to place in the repaired pod as a substitute for the bride's essence which he was supposed to gather from the infant after he killed it. This would account for Liz's advanced abilities in the human brain department and the brown eyes. It has been pointed out that all of the other Podsters (except Tess) have brown eyes. It would also explain why he was attracted to her from the beginning: he instinctively recognized his bride! As for the attraction to Tess, I believe that attraction was hard-wired into their DNA to make it easier for the four of them to hook up if they were somehow seperated, as happened with Michael and Tess. Does this make any sense or am I being too anal about my need for Liz to be Max's bride?

I love this theory. If only the writers are reading these. I don't particularly believe that Max has a "destiny" with Tess. I believe he has or should have his own free will. But the romantic in me tells me there are soulmates and I believe that Liz is Max's. But your theory would explain why Nacedo acts the way he does towards Liz. Maybe Max changed Liz when he either connected or reversed the connection in the pilot by changing her brain cells so that they are thousands of years more advanced like theirs. But if rocklowery's idea of Liz's conception is correct that would explain how she got the flashes of where the orb was buried and pictured the ship crashing. They could have been thoughts placed in her mind along with the essence or genetic memory or whatever by Nacedo or whichever alien had a hand in her engineering. It would explain why Grandma C was so interested in knowing whether she had found a soulmate. Sure do want to look in Grandma's book.

ok, i know this a bit off, but when i read this, i remembered that i have 2 fics at my fanfic site, that kind of goes along with it. here are the links...
http://www.geocities.com/rosfic/max-liz/the_glass_hand.html
and
http://www.geocities.com/rosfic/max-liz/The_prophecy.html

Zero
Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000
Posts: 202

07-05-2000 09:25 PM

Fieryangel - As soon as I have some time, I'm going to read your fanfic - I bet they are terrific.

As far as the dinner table scene at the Hardings' house goes - I figure the aliens probably have taste quirk just like humans - some like it hot and spicey, some crave chocolate.

The pod squad has been hanging with each other for so long, that it is natural for them to have tastes that have developed similarly. Tess had the "sweet" thing - what with the sugar in yogurt, but maybe she likes spicy too, just in a different way. I'm assuming that while the aliens have a lot in common, they have a lot of differences just like humans - diversity is the spice of life! Remember when Max told Liz while in the Jeep at the road block in 285 South that they weren't all the same - and she said she had known that for a long time. Plus, remember - our pod squad is human with DNA essense which makes them different than Harding and other "purely" alien beings on Earth. Who knows what their culinary quirks might be - other than we know one likes tic tacs!

Finally, I love the Liz adoption scenario, but think Liz is all human - just more advanced than your typical teen! I do like the thought of an Indian prophesy concerning a human girl being chosen to help save the Earth and an alien people - that girl being Liz - but than I wrote that up on Thread 3, so I won't repeat my scenario here.

Hope everyone had a great 4th of July - we had fabulous fireworks and laser show at our local park!

Zero

rocklowery
Level 3

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 121

07-05-2000 11:37 PM

I'm glad so many of you liked my scenario, I always have fun thinking these up! Maybe I should send my resume to the writing staff of Roswell, I could help with the scientific continuity and help them pick out some more great rock formations to include in the exterior shots!!

Some thoughts on others comments:

If Liz was indeed engineered as I proposed then it would make sense that her brain capabilities and DNA structure would've been engineered so that they would easily accept the alien DNA when it was added. There has been heavy hinting about radiation (the silver handprints) and evidence of high neural activity (Pierce's discussion in WR) being the key to their powers and that all of their powers are human in origin. Maybe this is the key to her abilities. Also by willingly opening herself up to Max, both physically and mentally, she has deepened her connection to him and further advanced the evolving mental powers.

As for the differing cellular structure in M/M/I, maybe the radiant energy from the alien DNA caused the human cells to mutate into the next evolutionary step in mankind's development; they're human cells, just one or two steps up from our present cell structure. When Max introduced the radiant energy into her cellular structure both by healing her and more importantly reversing the connection, he caused her cells to evolve. Since the alien DNA wasn't added during these processes, her cellular structure did not achieve the higher degree of evolution that theirs did thus staying essentially "human."

There has been an interesting discussion in the Science of Leaving Normal thread about the alien's destinies and Liz's connection. I'm not going to try to sum up that deep discussion, but you might want to peruse that thread as well.

[Edited by rocklowery on 07-05-2000 at 11:43 PM]

shapeshifter
Level 3

Registered: May 2000
Posts: 352

07-06-2000 12:07 AM

Hi guys, just thought I'd drag a relevant post over here from page 2 of The Science Fiction of Leaving Normal :

Originally posted by amx:
"...Grandma Claudia - I have always thought that the fact that the Pod Squad can't yet 'read' the symbols leaves open the possibility of someone providing a 'key'. What better way than a scholar who has made a life-study of Native American culture. The key may be wrapped in the shroud of GC's work and thereby be safe from unintended users...."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by, well, yes, it's me: shapeshifter:
"Wow! Of course! Well put, amx. I can picture Liz after she walked away at the end of Destiny, finding her Grandma's book, reading it, somehow seeing the symbols in Tess's book...maybe even sharing the true meaning with Tess at which point Tess will either have her eyes opened to the 'truth,' or fight it."

Phaedra
Level 3

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 255

07-06-2000 06:51 AM

how'd this get on page 2???

GraceKel
Level 4

Registered: Dec 1999
Posts: 784

07-06-2000 07:51 AM

Rocklowery and SSSTAR I love both your theories about Liz-how she was the intended but something went wrong-and Liz turned out HUMAN(because I do believe she is human-with SPECIAL GIFTS-and a SPECIAL DESTINY)

Evid could you post up your "IMMACULATE HEART" post on this thread because I did not see it in the summary from Zero, I am sure it was just an oversight because this was a wonderful find--I would post it myself but I would not do it the justice it deserves.

NOBODY commented on LIZ pealing thru the paper in Athertons basement looking just like one of them coming out of the pods and I thought this was such a good find! This would still fit in with Rocklowery or SSSTAR
s theories of her being the intended but something going wrong.

I noticed two things in the PILOT eppy---one is that as Liz enters the CRASH FESTIVAL she stops and hesitates for a moment(panning behind her is a sign "PROTECTOR OF EARTH"

One other thing I noticed but I am not sure, quite awhile ago someone said they thought they saw someone at the FESTIVAL right near the front stage that looks like SHEILA HUBBLE and I finally saw who they were talking about-and ya know I cannot be sure but they may be right--if you have the PILOT go back and check this out.

rocklowery
Level 3

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 121

07-06-2000 10:34 AM

Here's a little something for everyone to ponder; there has been much speculation about Liz's shooting being intentional. What if it was a "hit" arranged by a group that didn't want Grandma Claudia to go public with her findings? Threatening to harm a person's family is a common tactic by groups like the Mafia (making an offer they can't refuse...

). It wouldn't be too hard for them to find out that she's close to her granddaughter and use this as proof of their seriousness.

Thank goodness Max was there...

[Edited by rocklowery on 07-06-2000 at 10:44 AM]

Evid
Level 1

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 16

07-06-2000 11:21 AM

GraceKel as requested:

In the opening of Morning After when Liz is sitting on her lawn chair writing in her journel, did any of you notice the symbol on her pants. It is the IMMACULATE HEART. The meaning behind the heart is Gods promise of salvation and a promise that " MANY SOULS WILL BE SAVED and THERE WILL BE PEACE." The person who carries this heart is the Most Holy Mother of God. The heart is surrounded by thorns, which means Liz must suffer much sorrow. I think we can all agree that she has already experienced this. I just hope that Max can heal these wounds.

I know alot of you think that SF and religion don't mix but I think the writers beg to differ. Also many Biblical and Mythological writting are very similar.

So is Liz the Mother who will " SAVE MAN KIND " and Max the father? I guess we will just have to wait in see.

Clint
Level 4

Registered: Jan 2000
Posts: 748

07-06-2000 12:20 PM

Zero, great posting, I think I checked the first thread, but haven't been back. Boy what I was missing! This make me think that there could be so many twists in this show. I can't want till next season!

It gives me a LOT to think about.

Clint

Zero
Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000
Posts: 202

07-06-2000 12:29 PM

Evid - Sorry I forgot your Emmaculate Heart pants catch in my summary! It is such a fantastic catch! I guess my brain can only hold so much information since it is not too advanced - yet!

I agree that Religion and Sci-Fi can be mixed in some very interesting ways - I think "X-Files" has proven that time and again!!

Rocklowery - like the radiation effect on Liz's DNA theory! I like the thought that she was changed somehow by the connections with Max - whether it be an actual change or an awakening of what is already there!

Shapeshifter - I like what amx had to say about GC's book. I definitely think it is a clue to something involving the aliens! I wish I had more time to read other threads - but I only visit occasionally; thus, missing wonderful discussions. Fortunately, we have a great group of smart and observate people on this thread that love to throw out theories and observations!!

Grace Kel - you always have such interesting observations! Now I have to go back and rewatch River Dog and the Pilot for those things!! I haven't forgot!!

Zero

rocklowery
Level 3

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 121

07-06-2000 03:11 PM

Evid-I think the immaculate heart PJs are only one of many references/hints to the heroic aspect found in the various religions/mythologies of the world. I think this is what the writers are trying to point to in their subtle and not-so-subtle hints. Some of the references include Michael calling Max Gandhi in LN, the sitting buddha and various cultural relics, for wont of a better term, found in the Harding's house (including a ram's horn), GC's book on Navajo folklore, and references to Venus-since love is often a strong motivation for the heroic character. I don't think the hints are tied to any one religion but to some common themes in them all.

Gracekel-Good catch on the peeling paper/pod rebirth comparison. They even seemed to peek out in the same manner!

Zero
Level 3

Registered: Feb 2000
Posts: 202

07-06-2000 03:15 PM

In rewatching "Into the woods" and "Toy House" a number of things popped up. First, all the talk about adoption - we know Max and Is are adopted, but many have speculated about Liz - raises the issue of importance of biological parents vs. adoptive parents. I have always thought it was a mistake for M&I not to have told their mother because I believe she does love them unconditionally, and basically says so at the end. SO - which should be more important to M&I, the survival of their relatives on a distant planet who they remember little of (if any) or the survival of their adoptive parents? I'm not stating this very well, but it's one of those gray areas concerning where should their loyalties lie - or do they really have to make a choice??

Also, Liz's dad in "Into the woods" took on a new importance. He obviously has know "Jim" Valenti for some time. So - what does he really do? He is never around the Cafe, leading me to wonder what his "other" job is? The card game with Max had lots of clues - potentially. UMMM

Also, River Dog in ITW - is he the shapeshifter here? We only says he is Not Michael's father, but nothing else - and Michael has interesting visions when he heals the hurt ankle!

At the beginning of UFO Convention - the talk about Evil Aliens actually might be true, but applicable to the Bad aliens we have now come to realize exist! And where did Hubble disappear to for 30 years? I know I've asked this before, but it still bugs me.

Finally, it DID look like the Pepper's Cafe owner was one of the victims in Hubble's pictures - good catch! UMMM

The plot does thicken!!!

Sorry a lot of this is not directly relevant to LIZ, but .....

Zero

rocklowery
Level 3

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 121

07-06-2000 04:43 PM

Zero-I would imagine that Liz's dad must do a lot of the bookwork so he spends most of his time in his office. I've worked at a mom-and-pop restaurant before and the owners weren't in the front area very often, the manager was expected to keep things running smoothly and maintain a presence in the service area. Is this what Liz's capacity is for her parent's restaurant? I don't know, if it is, then they better find a new manager since theirs seems to leave at a moments notice without concidering how things are going!

All times are PT(US)