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Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology - Thread #5       (only page 1 of 6 available)

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Topic:  Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology - Thread #5       
Zero

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To those new to this thread – this is the 5th thread on “Liz’s Importance to the Alien Mythology” and the pod squad. The previous threads got too long and we want to encourage newbies to join into the discussion. If you would like to review those threads, here are the links:

Is Liz More Important to the Aliens/Mythology than we are led to believe? - 183 replies - Last Post: 05-30-2000
Thread 1

Importance of Liz to the Alien Mythology revisited - 189 replies - Last Post: 06-22-2000
Thread 2

Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology - Thread #3 - ~305 replies - Last Post: 07-04-2000
Thread 3

Liz’s Importance to the Alien Mythology – Thread #4 - ~302 replies – Last Post: 07-21-2000
Thread 4

The following is an ATTEMPT to summarize some of the thoughts and theories that have been expressed on the original threads – BUT, as always, I highly recommend that if you want to read an excellent in-depth analysis of how Liz might fit into the alien mythology and her importance to the pod squad – and the survival of the human race for that matter - you spend the time to read the original threads!

First – and foremost – the general consensus is that Liz is important to the alien mythology and the pod squad, and that there is more to the Liz/Max connection than a mere attraction (i.e., a crush). Max often makes comments such as “It was you!” that leads us to believe that her importance to him was beyond the bounds of “normal.” How Liz is important is where the fun comes in. Most believe that when Max healed Liz and then caused a reverse connection (Pilot), that something changed in Liz – whether the change was new or an awakening of something already a part of her is not known. Many feel there is something that goes to the core of who Liz is – maybe from a past life on the pod squads planet, or a previous life encounter with Max’s alien “essence” or human DNA donor on Earth, or was Liz the original “4th” podster who “hatched” early and was humanized by her human parents – but that the connection that Max had to Liz started the day he first got off the bus and saw her, and was awakened in Liz by the healing and reverse connection. Many have wondered about Liz’s origins – are her parents her birth parents, does she have a connection to the Indians, why does she look so much like Sheila Hubble? – and how this plays into the connection with Max.

Soulmates seems to be a continuing term used when referring to Max and Liz, and we all seem to think this is done for a reason. Though much is made of Max’s Destiny being Tess (aka hamster or gerbil – you pick) , many of us wonder if Liz is actually his Destiny due to the use of the Human DNA and where it came from. The use of that DNA could have totally altered the “planned” destiny. There is also much thought given to whether the alien Max played out his “destiny” on his home planet when killed in the conflict that envelopes that place, and that now has an entire new “destiny” that includes Liz. Most of us draw a clear distinction between someone’s “destiny” and “duty.” We – mostly – also believe that by using human DNA for the pod squad, and the fact that they were raised as humans, that the issue of “free choice” comes into play. The issue of “nature” vs. “nurture” also comes into play here. There has also been an excellent analysis of what “essence” truly means, and can a being’s destiny or soul follow the transfer of one’s essence.

In the mom ‘o gram, many have wondered if the reference to Max’s young bride has to be to Tess (The Evil Shape Shifter – Grace Kel J )? Could it be Liz? Why would they send his bride in the first place? Is the mom ’o gram authentic? Or a projection from Tess? Was it pre-recorded like a video tape (in which case – is the home planet still in existence?), or was it a direct communication. Same concerns are raised with the “book” found by Tess with respect to its authenticity and reliability. Could Grandma Claudia’s book – which is in Liz’s possession - help decode the alien’s book?

Liz is also viewed – when the episodes are rewatched (multiple times by some of us!) – as a critical element to moving the plot along. She is the one who often initiates the actions that help unravel the aliens’ mythology (e.g., thinking of the plan to throw Valenti off the trail in the Pilot, finding the way out of the hidden room at Atherton’s place (did she look like the aliens coming out of the pods there?), making the initial contact with River Dog, etc.). She is a leader that takes action when it is needed, and is the intellect that comes up with the plan. She could possibly be the equivalent to Max – whom we find out in Destiny is the former leader of his people. Could Liz be the human equivalent of Max that is here to help Max save the human race, as well as free the pod squad’s people? Liz is also a brain – which is relevant when we find out in the White Room that the pod squad are just very advanced humans. Could her intelligence mean that she has the potential to obtain some of the “powers” that the pod squad have? We will have to wait for next season, but many have expressed that they would NOT be surprised if Liz is capable of some advanced powers in the future, and the her visions may be just a precursor to these. Will she be the one to be able to SEE the evil within?

Liz’s visions have been examined in-depth, and it is hard to summarize all the thoughts. Not only has she been able to “see into Max’s soul,” but also her visions were the reason the second communicator was discovered. Most feel these visions were not coming from Max, but from an outside source – or a source internal to Liz just now being released or awakened. The visions seemed to be from the perspective of the communicator itself or an alien hiding it. Some wonder if others - aliens? - have observed Liz for some time. The shot came from two “strangers” who mention – “We have to get rid of her” – in the background (listen carefully while Liz shows the alien picture to the tourist couple) right before she is shot. Was it intentional??

The picture Liz shows the tourists in the Pilot was supposedly taken by her Grandmother at the crash before the military arrived – a connection?? Many have speculated about Grandma Claudia’s involvement and her book about the Ancient Navajo Indians. Could Grandma Claudia have had contact with the aliens previously? Was Grandma Claudia killed intentionally? Did she know that Liz was “special,” thus, necessitating the early arrival and that “soulmate” discussion? Is Liz affected or a product of one of these earlier alien contacts? Could Liz have an alien relative? There seems to be many hints connecting ancient Indian cultures to the pod squad including Machu Picchu in Peru culture highlighted at the UFO Museum, the continuing references to “ancient languages” (e.g., Liz’s Blind Date Doug Shellow’s major at the UofNM and where the aliens’ manual was hidden in the library) and Grandma Claudia’s studies. Only coincidence – we think not! Could Liz’s review of her Grandmother’s possessions in Season 2 reveal those connections? Could the proposed black & white episode clear up GC’s connection to the aliens?

Another major topic of interest is Liz’s connection to Sheila Hubble! The resemblance between the two is amazing, and other parallels exist (e.g., pictures of both driving in an open-air car with the wind blowing through their dark hair). Plus, the visions that Liz receives from Max/Harding include Hubble’s wife at the death scene – meaning it had some significance to him. Did he kill her, or did the print come from a failed attempt to save her? Were the fireworks Hubble mentions seeing when kissing his wife the same as the stars Liz sees when kissing Max? Could Sheila Hubble be related to Liz somehow – an aunt, DNA donor? The fact that Sheila Hubble was three months pregnant with a girl seems to be relevant somehow! Could the DNA from the girl have been used for the pod squad – Max maybe – or for Liz?

Liz’s ability to “see” into Max/Harding’s “soul” again points to the possibility that she may ultimately be able to “see the evil within.” What is it that she sees in these visions? Sheila Hubble, Lightening, a wormhole, the high desert, clouds rolling in? Some see sea foam, which is related in mythology to Venus. Is Liz Venus often referred to? The Venus constellation is often referred to in connection with Liz (e.g., Max in response to Liz saying her parents are on a trip to see Venus in the morning sky says “I thought she was standing in front of me.”). Could it be that the four squares (pod squad) + plus the fifth star being Liz “complete” the constellation? The numbers 14 and 104 seem to pop up often – why? Some have found a connection between these numbers to Venus in astronomy and mythology, or could it be 1 for Liz, and 4 for the pod squad? Or are they just some writer’s favorite apartment number or address?

Many have wondered if the "bad" aliens might also be from the pod squad's planet, just part of a civil war - therefore, having similar characteristics and powers to Harding's type of alien. Many of US think that the pod squad’s people had to have visited Earth before - maybe many times! Could the pods have been planted on Earth at a time separate from the 1947 crash, maybe later on?

Most of us also think that there are more than one alien “watching” the pod squad, and that the tic-tac popping alien (i.e., Hank-killer, one that found them asleep in the desert, and Dr. M impersonator) is a different alien watching out for them than Harding/Nasedo (assuming he is Nasedo). And what about the person who burns their picture at the end of Blind Date - another alien or one of the above two? Some wonder if Tess and/or Deputy Owen might be a shapeshifter? There is a wonderful observation of the different ways Harding and Tic Tac shapeshift and the different colored light involved! Many feel that Tic Tac is a good alien watching over the podsters, but maybe he is watching over Liz, too!

Harding’s connection to Liz has been pondered often! Why was he so eager to kiss her? Why did he save her from the house of mirrors? Could he have been Sheila Hubble’s lover or had some other strong connection to her, with a later connection to Liz? Could he have known Grandma Claudia? Could GC been connected to Sheila Hubble somehow? Harding has done nothing – we know of – to harm Liz, but MANY are suspicious of his intentions. Is his sole reason for being on Earth to protect the pod squad – and what did he do for all those years?? I have a strong theory concerning how “duty” has overtaken Harding’s emotions – but you will have to go to the beginning of the 3rd thread to read it. Others feel he is a bad alien using Tess to infiltrate the pod squad. Why didn’t he give them more information about themselves? Will the real Ed Harding stand up?

Some have noted the reoccurrence of handholding as symbolizing the connection between Max and Liz and the other podsters. Handholding has great significance in the books as a form of joining energy, and we believe it does in the show too. The V constellation also looks like the joining of two hands.

Finally – dates seem to be of interest to those on this thread. So, following is a rundown of dates as I’ve been able to gather them. I include them up-front for easy reference, but I would love to add dates of relevance you come across:
1911 - James Atherton born in TN
1927 - Buffalo Visitation
6/14/1947 - Crash
6/24/1947 - 9 Disk-like objects spotted flying near Mt. Rainier in WA
7/4/1947 – Milton claims the crash occurred
7/7/1947 - Farmer Brazel (from Foster Ranch) finally reports debris from Roswell crash to sheriff, who calls Roswell Army Air Field
11/14/1947 - Everet Hubble born
1950? - Observation of alien held in captivity by FBI ends (Escaped? Died?)
1952 - Atherton involved in Project Blue Book (Air Force project on aliens)
1959 - Atherton dies (murdered?)
1959 - Milton (Max's Boss) has picture with "alien" shadow next to him outside the Ice Cream Parlor
1962 - Agent Lewis - first head of Special Unit killed in CO
1967 - Agent Delbianco killed in TN
1970 - Sheila Hubble dies (murdered?)
1972 – Silo Murder occurs involving Hubble and Sheriff Valenti Senior
3/15/1983 – Max’s birthday (Blood Bothers)
1989 - Pod Squad come out of the cave (look like 6-year-olds)
1992 - Max and Isabel "find" Michael again
1992? - Liz and Max "meet" in the 3rd grade for the first time (but may have been in the same school before this, just didn't meet.)
1999 - Agent Daniel Summers killed
9/17/1999 - Max saves Liz - and Roswell is Born!!

I know I haven’t covered everything, especially new thought from Thread #4, but that would be impossible and I’d never do anyone justice! I hope others will help fill in some of the gaps, but this is my attempt to continue the wonderful input, and make this thread more accessible. Lots to think about!! So – theorize away!!! All theories on "Liz’s Importance to the Alien Mythology" are welcome. OH, BTW (I always have to add this – if anyone from THE WB reads this – WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LIZ/MAX CONNECTION IS CRITICAL TO THE SHOW and that together they make a incredible force to reckon with!!

Zero
HappyGurl

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Wow..there are certainly some great insights and ideas in this post. It was interesting to see how Liz is so important and after reading your post, it made me have more faith in Max and Liz because she is such an important part to the whole story and the unraveling of it.
huggybehr

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Zero, thanks for a great summary of the main points. As a regular visitor and sometime contributor to this thread, it's useful to be reminded of the key theories.

I was wondering about the dates. The crash happened in 1947, 4 aliens were captured, two dead, two alive. One escaped and one was held captive for 3 years. But according to your timeline, nothing significant happened between 1947 and 1959. What was the escaped alien (Nasedo?) doing all that time? Was he just hanging out on the reservation? I don't have any answers at the moment, just questions. Does anyone have any theories that might bring Grandma Claudia into the story during this period. I feel there could be a link, but can't quite put my finger on it.
deidra e, jones

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Don't have time to read right now, so I will be back!
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WOW Zero thank you so much for this great effort, I hope you know how much we appreciate all the work you have done to keep this thread going, amazing job! Thank you again.

TO all posters on this thread, and on others for that matter, thanks for sharing all your wonderful ideas, whether people agree with each other I think we all benefit from hearing different points of view, I know I do, I will state myself that as many clues as I have found throughout the story I do believe that the writers have been clever enough to leave this story WIDE OPEN to go in any direction they so choose we can only wait and see.
darth maul 214

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Gk, I agree there ar clues to go in so many different directions. I remember how many different directions my own theories have gone in. I hope to hear some more great theories. I don't have any right now, hopefully, I'll have one or more after BD Monday. Did you like my fic? They were my first tries. I finished the monster I had been telling you about. It weighed in at 47 handwritten pages. I'm currently typing it up. The typed version will have an extended cliffhanger ending, plus a cut scene(everyone who has read my posts knows I sometimes use cut scenes in my theories) of Alex having the "dreaded" dinner with the parents. I will have it up next week, hopefully with another one. the address of my site is: http://www.crosswinds.net/~darthmaul214/The%20Pod%20Chamber.html. The site is very plain. I plan to improve it once I learn HTML.
Lizabel

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This is great, Zero. I seldom post but usually lurk, although all the thinking around this thread makes my head hurt. my father agreed with me on this point: Once you are looking for clues to something, they are EVERYWHERE. he used the example of some musicians death. Everyone was convinced that he was still alive, and people began having sightings of him all the time. you just have to have something to look for.

Thanks to this thread I have been rewatching old episodes, and thinking of the theroys, and most of them actually fit in with the plot!!!

Thanks for making me think a little!

Lizzybear (I think this is Ironic, the bear is strong, and Liz will have to be strong too, after what occoured in Destiny... she's always had to be strong. maybe thus GC's nickname for her... )
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I have been thinking of something for awhile now, but everytime I post I would forget to mention it.
Zero made me think of it again w/the intro (which was great by the way). Anyway about the DNA thing ever since Max healed Liz and they switched Max's blood w/Alex's I was wondering what would happen if one of the humans were injected with the 's blood. Just curious on that subject.
Also I mentioned this on another thread, but I was hoping someone could put their 2sense in. If the Pod Squad can change their fingerprints can they also shapeshift.

I love this thread. May the Mythology live on.
rocklowery

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Zero, Cudos on the sum-up, as always you did a bang up job!

As to Grandma Claudia, I bet the black and white eppy will clear up a lot of questions about how she's tied into all of this. But knowing the writers, we'll probably end up with a few more questions as well. It would be neat if Liz came across her Grandma's journal with an entry about the crash.
HyperKitN

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I hope Liz looks into her granny's personal effects also. They probably haven't gone into that stuff since they didn't think they were coming back. Or maybe Liz was too upset to go through it. Its seems as though both the Claudias book and the alien book both have been out of the picture for awhile. Can't wait to see.
HyperKitN

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I can't wait for the B/W eppy. I loved the Felicity one, I am sure this will be good also.
LizEvans13

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Hey everyone. I was watching "Blind Date" today and I noticed that the guy at the end (Nasedo?) looked a lot like Doug Shellow- Liz's "Dream Date". A lot of people have commented on his possible "connection" due to the fact that he studied archaeology and lost languages and such. A lot of the things he said struck me as a little odd for just being some random guy. Things like "The girls in the archaeology department are nice and all, but they're just so...serious. It's like they're on a personal quest to uncover some ancient secret 24 hours a day. Kinda takes over, you know?" and "No wonder you entered the contest. I mean, who are you gonna find in a town like this, anyway? An alien? So, what's good here? Besides the waitresses." I know he's in Roswell and all, but the little awkward laugh afterwards kinda' stuck out. And the fact that the first time Liz had flashes when she and Max kissed was when Dougie-boy was on stage seemed kinda' seemed odd. So maybe... maaaaaybe Doug Shellow was Nasedo?

Then after this, I wanted to compare Doug Shellow with how Nasedo/Max acted around Liz in "Max to the Max". Like how he seemed so eager to kiss her. Maybe it's not just because she looked like Sheila Hubble (who he could've impregnated as Everett Hubble- wouldn't that be interesting?), maybe it was because he kissed her before as Doug Shellow. And then there's this exchange, after she found out it was really Nasedo.

LIZ: Do you have to be Max?

NASEDO: Oh, I like it. Being him. Being 17. I don’t think you’d have been as friendly to Ed Harding.

LIZ: That was you?

NASEDO: I’ve been a lot of different people you don’t even know about. But right now, Max Evans is my most important role.

And here's a totally whacked-out theory with little supporting evidence- maybe Doug Shellow was Tess. After all, in "Blind Date", Max said, "I think you'd look better as a blonde."

I know these theories are kinda' out there, but maybe it's possible? I would appreciate some feedback either way. Be sure to watch "Blind Date" Monday night, and then watch "Max to the Max" and see what you think.

~*~ Liz Evans 13 ~*~

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I think you are on to something here. Before I finished reading your post the same though came to mind. Max/Nasedo was too eager to kiss Liz in Max to the Max. I just couldn't remember if she had kissed Doug. But I think that Max said he would look better as a blond because Liz said she liked brunettes. Good observation.
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Welcome Lizabel please feel free to chime in with any clues or theories of your own.

Darth I am right in the middle of reading your fanfic, it is very good so far not finished it yet. Sometimes getting on this board is a chore trying to balance everything else and be a real person in the real world sometimes, but I am working on it and when I finish I will let you know.

Rocklowery I still think your theory over on the other board is getting very close if you pc things together. And I agree there will probably be a million more questions when the SEASON2 starts-oh boy! I saw on the other thread you wrote I must get this solved or something like that you sound just like me ha!!!

Hyperkitn I think you raise a valid question about the shapeshifting and fingerprints but I am not real good at the highly scientific things so maybe someone else can help you on this one.

LizEvans13 I think your ideas are definite possibilites I posted about them many times---both Doug being Nasedo or Tess, some keep telling me No he was just a NORMAL guy but that word NORMAL kept coming up and up and up didn't it during that ep? I just tend to think they managed to get some SCIFI into the eppy somewhere so why not there. However I was also thinking of the pics that Pierce had in his virtual reality machine (Maria and Alex from Blind Date and Isabel and Michael from Blind Date) so what does this mean????? And Liz's was from SH? Anyone?

Zero once again-thanks for a terrific job of creating a new thread for us. I LOVE THIS THREAD TOO!
Zero

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Zero bows, and blushes!

Huggybear - I think the "What did Harding/Nasedo do for all that time?" is a major question - yet to be answered. What happened to the other aliens (that we have been told the FBI was aware of from the 1947 crash) - 1 that survived and 2 that died - is also a major question! Maybe the Tic Tac is the other one that survived, and if Harding could not "die," does that mean the two that "died" might be revived someday - if found (in one piece)? Lots of loose ends ... and potential in the right hands!

Lizabel - I do agree, once you start looking for clues, they start jumping out at your from everywhere - whether they are really clues or not. I don't discount any "clue" that someone observes, but I also take some things with a grain of salt knowing that we might be over-reaching a bit! But I sure have fun trying to analyse the episodes, as do lots of others out there!

Hyperkin - As far as mixing bloods - that is a hard one. I don't know much about mixing human blood, but I know certain types (like O) are universal, and can be used in people with other types of blood; however, if you mix other "types" of blood, it can kill the person. I know the + and - factors in there too somehow. I'm not sure if the O, A & B blood types are in a higherarchy or not - so we need someone who knows about this stuff - any takers? How the pod squad's blood then fits in is anyone's guess, but we know they are supposedly all human with alien DNA. Why their blood differs must be due to either the alien "essence" or the evolutionary "factor" of being thousands of years ahead of the current humans. I will be curious to see if the writers deal with this at all in the future.

Oh - and Liz Evans - your thoughts on Blind Date are very similar to ones posted by - I think - Grace Kel many moons ago - and it definitely made us all start to look much closer at that episode. I do think that Doug Shellow's character is much more "deep" than thought on first glance. (Okay, it's late, and I'm "trying" to be funny! )

Happy viewing!
Zero

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LizEvans13 pointed out that the first time Liz had a flash was when she kissed Max on the stage during Blind Date and wonders if Doug Shellow might have been Nascedo. I've wondered if Doug & Nascedo could be one in the same as well. Doug kisses Liz and I was thinking that if he was Nascedo perhaps while kissing her he did something to her that would enable her to have visions while kissing. Maybe that's why Harding/Max/Nascedo was so eager to kiss Liz. Maybe he wanted to know if she could REALLY see him. That is of course assuming that Harding & Nascedo are one in the same.

I've been thinking about the cave symbol that Michael burns into the library lawn. He tells Isabel that the cave painting is a map and that symbols location is the library. I think the map was actually pointing out to them the location of the book Tess removes from the library as it has the same symbol on the cover.
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Zero, I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to write such a great summary. I sooo much enjoy being able to share ideas here.
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Hi Everyone,
Boy I go away for a couple of weeks and your already on thread #5. Zero I got to hand it to you, you did it again, what a great summary. I was so happy to see this thread still on the board. Have we broken some kind of record yet?

I know that we might have covered this topic before but I still think it's worth bringing up again.
Some of us noticed on SH that Liz seemed to get sick because she was away from Max, the fever and the rash. Well, I caught something else on ITW.
If you remember Liz mentions that she has a cold and then she tells Maria that she had not spoken to Max in days.
Voiceover: I hate the start of a cold. That little tickle that tells you something's about to happen that you know you can't prevent. Something that could be mild if you do all the right things, or could knock you off your feet if you're not careful.

So did Liz do the right thing? Will Liz be able to stay healthy without Max? Do you think whatever Liz must go through is just like a cold that couldn't be prevented, but might only need to run its course in order for her to get back on her feet? Or did I just read way to much into this one?
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Evid--sort of like that saying "an apple a day keeps the doctor away", Liz's would be "a kiss from Max a day keeps the dr. away". LOL I think that she may have some physical symptoms if she stays away from Max for too long. I hadn't thought about that cold thing from ITTW.
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Zero, excellent summation!!!

quote:
Originally posted by darth maul 214
Did you like my fic? They were my first tries...the address of my site is: http://www.crosswinds.net/~darthmaul214/The%20Pod%20Chamber.html...

Cute address, but, umm, it's not working.

So if Nasedo wasDoug Shellow, he might have chosen the name to compare him to Max. Regardless, I suspect Nasedo's efforts to kiss Liz in his Evil Max mode would be primarily to read her thoughts.

Today I was thinking that the writers and creators might be playing hard to get with the Max/Liz thing so that when things do work out it will make us all swoon (well, mayber not darth & nemo & reggie), and the ratings will sky rocket.
GraceKel

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Starstruck you might be right about the book and symbol on the map!

Evid welcome back how was your trip? Interesting thought you had there, but it is funny my take on that same group of words was that Liz was having a premonition about the coming of Mr Harding and Tess and boy did that turn out to be more than a TICKLE!Ha! OUCH!
darth maul 214

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07-23-2000 02:59 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for darth maul 214    Click Here to Email darth maul 214   Send private message to darth maul 214    Visit darth maul 214's homepage!   Find more posts by darth maul 214    Edit/Delete Message    Reply w/Quote
Shapeshifter, Croswinds is "doing the wacky". I couldn't get into Roswell Underground, either. Try the link again later, it does work. I am a romantic, 'shifter. My romantic tendencies are tied into Alex/Isabel. Don't get me wrong, I love Max/Liz and Michael/Maria. I happen to understand A/I better, since I had a relationship like theirs. It never progressed past friendship. I haven't seen her in 6 years and part of me is still in love with her. As of 6:50 am EDT, crosswinds is back up. My link works.

[Edited by darth maul 214 on 07-23-2000 at 03:50 AM]
huggybehr

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I know us fans of the altered Liz theory have always speculated that the healing and/or reverse connection was the cause of it. But what if it was the kiss from Max in Blind Date? I ask this because, Liz did not start having visions before this point, and as I mentioned before, I think River Dog's speech in the cave in The Balance is the key. Remember he talked about how the balance could change both your mind and your body unless you navigate it properly. Perhaps the fact that Max was drunk and not in control of his energy/essence, was the real start of Liz changing. Everything seemed to escalate from there, compare Liz's innocent fantasy in this episode with the one in Sexual Healing. I believe the orb was meant to awaken the biological drives of the leader and his chosen woman, and lead them to its location. What do you think?

Forgive me if there's nothing new in my speculation, I may have missed similar ideas being posted in the past.
shapeshifter

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07-23-2000 08:41 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for shapeshifter    Click Here to Email shapeshifter   Send private message to shapeshifter    Find more posts by shapeshifter    Edit/Delete Message    Reply w/Quote
Huggybehr, I think you logic is sound, and it would somewhat mitigate the ethical issues of presenting drunkeness to teen viewers as an attractive experience...er, um, in theory at least (with Max and Liz in the mix it's not going to be very discouraging).

So, then, this would also fit with the idea of Doug S. being Nasedo, trying to prevent Max from kissing/bonding with Liz when his Balance factors were likely to allow a sharing of powers with Liz. Eek, do you suppose the real Doug was offed by Nasedo/Harding? Maybe he was deemed eliminatable because he was close to some findings of alien visitors.
rocklowery

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07-23-2000 09:47 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for rocklowery    Click Here to Email rocklowery   Send private message to rocklowery    Find more posts by rocklowery    Edit/Delete Message    Reply w/Quote
quote:
posted by LizEvans13

Then after this, I wanted to compare Doug Shellow with how Nasedo/Max acted around Liz in "Max to the Max". Like how he seemed so eager to kiss her. Maybe it's not just because she looked like Sheila Hubble (who he could've impregnated as Everett Hubble- wouldn't that be interesting?), maybe it was because he kissed her before as Doug Shellow.


I agree with shapeshifter about why evil Max wanted to kiss her. I don't think he knows about her ability to see visions. I think that if he had been Doug, we would've seen Tess a lot sooner so that she and Max could've found the orb together. He keeps pushing the Max/Tess destiny thing. Harding seems to treat Liz as just a normal human who Max happens to be in love with. Don't you kind of wonder what he saw when he kissed her?
Evid

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07-23-2000 09:53 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Evid    Click Here to Email Evid   Send private message to Evid    Find more posts by Evid    Edit/Delete Message    Reply w/Quote
Gracekel:
Great to here from you. I had a pretty nice trip. The highlight was Chicago. I went over to visit Sue (the T-rex) over at the Field Museum, amazing is all I have to say. Then I zipped over to the Adler Planetarium & Astronomy Museum, and guess what was one of the first things that caught my eye, a great big picture of the Whirlwind Galaxy. I just can't seem to escape Roswell. I highly recomend it if your a Astronomy buff or not,
The web sight is http://www.adlerplanetariun.org./

I just love how we both analyzed the cold theory and came up with two different interpretations. That's why I love this thread so many wonderful minds working together.

huggybehr:
Yes, I think your right about things escalating between M/L during BD, but I seem to recall Liz needing to talk to Max about that first kiss on HW, something about seeing the universe and Liz starting to feel sick on ITW, as explained on my last post. So I think the first kiss might have started the change in Liz, the kiss on BD brought it full cycle, but the kiss or kisses on SH gave it birth.
Let's face it, the more contact with Max that Liz has the more material the writers have for the show, lets just hope they see this as clearly as the rest of us.

huggybehr

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07-23-2000 10:46 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for huggybehr    Send private message to huggybehr    Find more posts by huggybehr    Edit/Delete Message    Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Evid

huggybehr:
Yes, I think your right about things escalating between M/L during BD, but I seem to recall Liz needing to talk to Max about that first kiss on HW, something about seeing the universe and Liz starting to feel sick on ITW, as explained on my last post. So I think the first kiss might have started the change in Liz, the kiss on BD brought it full cycle, but the kiss or kisses on SH gave it birth.
Let's face it, the more contact with Max that Liz has the more material the writers have for the show, lets just hope they see this as clearly as the rest of us.



Hi Evid, I believe the kiss that Liz wanted to talk to Max about was the one at the end of Blind Date - check out the beginning of Independence day. However, you do bring up a good point about the first kiss in Heatwave. Didn't Liz tell Maria that she felt dizzy when Max kissed her?
nermal

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If the Max's kisses from HW, BD, and SH turned on something inside Liz, what was turned on? A gene that exists only inside Liz Parker or a gene that exists in all humans? Maria and Alex don't seem to be affected by their kisses, so either it's only Liz who can be turned on or it's only Max who can "turn it on". (LOL)



[Edited by nermal on 07-23-2000 at 10:53 AM]
rocklowery

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Evid!!! So glad your back! I'm envious, I really want to see Sue. I've been following her travails ever since I was working at the American Geological Institute. All the geologists there were of course rooting for a public home for Sue. Nothing warms my heart more than something as extrordinary as that find being shared with the public. LOL about the Adler Planetarium! I would love to get a poster of the Whirlwind Galaxy, simply because as Liz says, it's beautiful, the universe that is!

I loved the observations about the cold journal entry. I never thought about it in either of those contexts. Just more for me to think about!
Evid

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07-23-2000 11:41 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Evid    Click Here to Email Evid   Send private message to Evid    Find more posts by Evid    Edit/Delete Message    Reply w/Quote
huggybehr:
Your right this is what Liz said to Maria on ID.
Liz: When Max kissed me, it was like, I don't know. Ok, it was like I saw things, all right? I could like, feel the universe.

My mind keeps running all these episodes together, so BD started Liz on her vision quest, but I still think her cold on ITW was a sign that things where changing.

nermal:
I think it is a gene inside Liz that started everything in the first place. The question is how and from who did she get this gene? Sheila Hubble? Grandma Claudia? or both?
FunkMommaT

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This thread is awesome and after watching Destiny again, as well as about every other ep since yesterday, all of these questions concerning Liz's importance are resurfacing.

I cannot fight the feeling that she is definetely connected to the podsters in a more important way.

I know much of this has already been discussed, I'm just chiming in in agreement with some theories. Such as Liz being able to see "the evil within". Only she has had the visions. With Max and then with Max/Harding. That also raised the question of whether Nasedo is really there to help them or hurt them, but that would probably be another thread altogether.

I'm also a supporter of the theory that Liz may very well be the new bride the mom-o-gram spoke of.

I also believe the mom-o-gram was like a previous recording. When she states "If you are seeing this now" (I think that is right) I can't believe it was in "real" time so to speak.

Also I have to raise te question of when the essence was mixed with the DNA. Was it done on the home planet or after the crash? I'm sure you all have already speculated all of this.

I can't wait til the new season starts and we get some answers.

And on the mom-o-gram, is there a connectoin there seeing as Liz got the grandma-o-gram??

All questions needing answers that we will only find in the next season.
Zero

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07-23-2000 12:30 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Zero    Click Here to Email Zero   Send private message to Zero    Find more posts by Zero    Edit/Delete Message    Reply w/Quote
Friendly - and shameless - BUMP!

No time to write now, but wanted to mark where I left off reading!

Zero
PS - Got my Roswell necklace in the mail yesterday, so I'm curious when someone will notice it when I wear it.
rocklowery

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quote:
Originally posted by FunkMommaT

I'm also a supporter of the theory that Liz may very well be the new bride the mom-o-gram spoke of.

I also believe the mom-o-gram was like a previous recording. When she states "If you are seeing this now" (I think that is right) I can't believe it was in "real" time so to speak.

Also I have to raise te question of when the essence was mixed with the DNA. Was it done on the home planet or after the crash? I'm sure you all have already speculated all of this.

And on the mom-o-gram, is there a connectoin there seeing as Liz got the grandma-o-gram??

All questions needing answers that we will only find in the next season.


I agree with you about the mom-o-gram. After hearing the message I think it would've been too dangerous for them to risk a direct communication with Mom. A pre-recorded message ala Mission Impossible would make more sense. I wonder if they could activate it again or if it was a one time deal?

As to the grandma-gram, it wouldn't surprise me if something inside Liz made it possible for her to talk with her grandma's "essence." They both seemed to glow with the same light in that scene. Maybe grandma's connection to the aliens will be revealed in the second season and we'll find out if Liz is just human or more than human.

I hope October gets here soon, my tapes are going to be worn out by the time the next season starts!!!
GraceKel

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Zero here we are ignoring your post after all the hard work you put into this thread, sorry! I meant to comment on this, you mentioned about the fact that they could bring back Mr Harding with the stones could this mean that they could bring back the original crash victims? Well it seems as though they could doesn't it? Pretty interesting idea I think!

Zero have you ever come up with a whole complete theory on this thread, or a you a bits and pcr like myself, I have about 4 half theories but they all end up where I come up against something so I have to throw it out. I was just curious because I don't seem to remember you posting a whole theory, am I wrong?

Evid so lol that the writers should be sure as the rest of us are!

Darth went to finish your story last night and the thread would not work will try again soon. The story is very good so far. Darth I love the character of Alex, I think I like him because is very much like Max and Liz in being very sensible, my daughters always say to me do you notice that Alex and Liz are always right about things and Michael is always wrong, I had never thought of that b4 but I had to laugh.

Rocklowery, Starstruck I think I have hit the wall here with NEW CLUES, they are just not coming to me anymore and my tapes are getting completely worn to a frazzle and pretty soon I must go buy a new VCR because of all the FF and REWIND and SLOW MO I have been doing.
Palomino

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When they said Harding couldn't die, and the stones could bring him back, I thought maybe they could bring back the others two, but...

1. We don't know just how badly they were messed up. They may have burned(fire in SH vision), or they might be in multiple pieces.

2. The government would surely have done extraordinarily detailed autopsies, taken tissue samples, run tests, and pickled and/or frozen every bit of alien parts they could find. (Don't forget the Jon Lovitz bar-b-que.)Their bodies parts could be in various states of preservation or decay across dozens of states. We don't know if parts are mix-n-match. (I could see Max holding unknown organs in his hands, looking back and forth, shrugging, and plopping them into the two different bodies. Shades of Frankenpodster.)

After over half a century, it might be too late to bring them back.
shapeshifter

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07-23-2000 05:19 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for shapeshifter    Click Here to Email shapeshifter   Send private message to shapeshifter    Find more posts by shapeshifter    Edit/Delete Message    Reply w/Quote
I will risk being thought egotistical and quote myself over here from the sci fi thread:
quote:
How about if Tess is the true alien mate as intended on the home planet, BUT, when alien essence meets human DNA in a complete being, the alien destiny/mate element gets filtered through the human genetic make-up. In Max's case, Liz was thus identified as the new perfect mate. It kind of kills a little of the romance for me, but not if you think that Liz in turn fell humanly in love with the guy who had an alien obsession for her, and Max's human side, in turn, fell in love with Liz, AND, with the various connections, Liz now has an alien type response to Max.


But, I also think, given the spoiler info (which I won't post here), that there is still reason to think that the writers might resurrect the GC/Liz connection as a reason for Max's unswerving attraction to and concern for Liz.
GraceKel

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07-23-2000 08:57 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for GraceKel    Click Here to Email GraceKel   Send private message to GraceKel    Find more posts by GraceKel    Edit/Delete Message    Reply w/Quote
Shapeshifter I haven't forgotten about your theory either, after all if aliens can have a destiny, humans can too right? So why not!
It does turn my stomach just a bit to have Max have a wife still, what is he going to do with her? Get and alien divorce? LOL! No seriously though this is a perfectly good theory like many others-and I too am hoping they will revisit GC/Indian/Liz connection.
I really don't throw out any theories because I think the writers have left it wide open and can go in any direction they choose. You know I am a DIEHARD DREAMER I have never denied this.
shapeshifter

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07-23-2000 09:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for shapeshifter    Click Here to Email shapeshifter   Send private message to shapeshifter    Find more posts by shapeshifter    Edit/Delete Message    Reply w/Quote
GraceKel, Maybe I'm in denial, but I am assuming "young bride" means they were engaged or married moments before being killed and that it was never consumated. And I only think that when I'm not convinced that Momogram is phony part of a Tess/Harding evil plot.

Slightly OT: has anyone seen the Baby Name Finder ad at the top of the page:
Baby A to Baby B: "Percival?" I was kind of hoping for "Max."
darth maul 214

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I had an epiphany on the Pod Squad's cells. Max, Isabel, and Michael were in the "system". Being in the system, they had to have physicals, blood tests, immunizations and such. I believe their cells gradually mutated from "normal" human cells to what they are now. Otherwise, the secret would have been out in 1989.
Palomino

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07-24-2000 09:38 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Palomino    Send private message to Palomino    Find more posts by Palomino    Edit/Delete Message    Reply w/Quote
Darth : Around here, if a child is "in the system" there is no need for blood tests. A routine physical and imunizations would not reveal anything abnormal, which may be why they are genetically engineered to seem human to begin with.

GraceKel and Shapeshifter : I wonder if their wedding vows were "till death do us part" or "for all eternity"? If it was the first one, he is off the hook. As for his "young bride" and not consumating the marraige, you sound like you want him to be a virgin in his first life as well. I'm more worried that he is a paunchy old alien that forced a pretty little ovoid into nuptuals.

[Edited by Palomino on 07-24-2000 at 09:48 AM]
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