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Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology - Thread #6 (only page 1 of 11 is available)

Topic: Liz Importance to the Alien Mythology - Thread #6

This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

08-08-2000 11:09 PM

Zero

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Feb 2000
Posts: 253

My godness - here we are on Thread #6 and the season 2 hasn't even started yet!

Well, to those new to this thread – this is the 6th thread on “Liz’s Importance to the Alien Mythology” and the pod squad. The previous threads got too long and - as always - we want to encourage newbies to join into the discussion! If you would like to review those threads, here are the links:

Is Liz More Important to the Aliens/Mythology than we are led to believe? - 183 replies - Last Post: 05-30-2000
Thread 1

Is Liz More Important to the Aliens/Mythology than we are led to believe? - 183 replies - Last Post: 05-30-2000
Thread 1

Importance of Liz to the Alien Mythology revisited - 189 replies - Last Post: 06-22-2000
Thread 2

Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology - Thread #3 - ~305 replies - Last Post: 07-04-2000
Thread 3

Liz’s Importance to the Alien Mythology – Thread #4 - ~302 replies – Last Post: 07-21-2000
Thread 4
Liz’s Importance to the Alien Mythology – Thread #5 - ~338 replies – Last Post: 08-8-2000
Thread 5

The following is a lame ATTEMPT to summarize some of the thoughts and theories that have been expressed on the original threads – BUT, as always, I highly recommend that if you want to read an excellent in-depth analysis of how Liz might fit into the alien mythology and her importance to the pod squad – and the survival of the human race for that matter - and theories concerning the beings and mysteries swirling around Liz you spend the time to read the original threads!

First – and foremost – the general consensus is that Liz is important to the alien mythology and the pod squad, and that there is more to the Liz/Max connection than a mere attraction (i.e., a crush). Max often makes comments such as “It was you!” that leads us to believe that her importance to him was beyond the bounds of “normal.” How Liz is important is where the fun comes in. Most believe that when Max healed Liz and then caused a "reverse connection" (Pilot), that something changed in Liz – whether the change was new or an awakening of something already a part of her is not known. Many feel there is something that goes to the core of who Liz is – maybe from a past life on the pod squads planet, or a previous life encounter with Max’s alien “essence” or human DNA donor on Earth, or was Liz the original “4th” podster who “hatched” early and was humanized by her human parents, or was Liz the "second in command" referred to in the Mom'ogram, who somehow was separated from the group, or could it just be Liz's advanced intelligence that "connects" her to Max – but that the connection that Max had to Liz started the day he first got off the bus and saw her, and was awakened in Liz by the healing and reverse connection. Many have wondered about Liz’s origins – are her parents her birth parents, does she have a connection to the Indians, why does she look so much like Sheila Hubble? – and how this plays into the connection with Max.

"Soulmates" seems to be a continuing term used when referring to Max and Liz, and we all seem to think this is done for a reason. Though much is made of Max’s Destiny being Tess (aka hamster or gerbil – you pick)

, many of us wonder if Liz is actually his Destiny due to the use of the Human DNA and where it came from. The use of that DNA could have totally altered the “planned” destiny. There is also much thought given to whether the alien Max played out his “destiny” on his home planet when killed in the conflict that envelopes that place, and that now has an entire new “destiny” that includes Liz. Most of us draw a clear distinction between someone’s “destiny” and “duty.” We – mostly – also believe that by using human DNA for the pod squad, and the fact that they were raised as humans, that the issue of “free choice” comes into play. The issue of “nature” vs. “nurture” also comes into play here. There has also been an excellent analysis of what “essence” truly means, and can a being’s destiny or soul follow the transfer of one’s essence. There have also been many wonderful discussions concerning what "destiny" truly means, and how the environment (the "nuture" argument) can effect one's destiny.

In the Mom‘ogram, many have wondered if the reference to Max’s young bride has to be to Tess (The Evil Shape Shifter – Grace Kel

)? Could it be Liz? Why would they send his bride in the first place? Is the Mom’ogram authentic? Or a projection from Tess? Was it pre-recorded like a video tape (in which case – is the home planet still in existence, or has it been destroyed by war or natural consequences?), or was it a direct communication. Same concerns are raised with the “book” found by Tess with respect to its authenticity and reliability. Could Grandma Claudia’s book – which is in Liz’s possession - help decode the alien’s book? If the alien book is authentic, how did the aliens know exactly what the podsquad would look like when the grew up? (Lots of discussion re: DNA, cloning, etc. - very interesting!)

Liz is also viewed – when the episodes are rewatched (multiple times by some of us! BANG - the sound of a VCR exploding due to overuse of the slow motion feature!

Get that new VCR yet Grace Kel and Rocklowery?) – as a critical element to moving the plot along. She is the one who often initiates the actions that help unravel the aliens’ mythology (e.g., thinking of the plan to throw Valenti off the trail in the Pilot, finding the way out of the hidden room at Atherton’s place (did she look like the aliens coming out of the pods there?), making the initial contact with River Dog, etc.). She is a leader that takes action when it is needed, and is the intellect that comes up with the plan. She could possibly be the equivalent to Max – whom we find out in Destiny is the former leader of his people. Could Liz be the human equivalent of Max that is here to help Max save the human race, as well as free the pod squad’s people? Liz is also a brain – which is relevant when we find out in the White Room that the pod squad are just very advanced humans (approximately 2000 years ahead of us normal mortals!). Could her intelligence mean that she has the potential to obtain some of the “powers” that the pod squad have? We will have to wait for next season, but many have expressed that they would NOT be surprised if Liz is capable of some advanced powers in the future, and the her visions may be just a precursor to these. Will she be the one to be able to SEE the evil within? Is that what she was "seeing" when she kissed Harding/Max? Does she only get visions while kissing or in a state of heightened emotion (i.e., the hand touching in SH in Chemistry class)? The aliens supposedly get such visions sometimes according to Max in Missing.

Liz’s visions have been examined in-depth, and it is hard to summarize all the thoughts. Not only has she been able to “see into Max’s soul,” but also her visions were the reason the second communicator was discovered. Most feel these visions were not coming from Max, but from an outside source – or a source internal to Liz just now being released or awakened. The visions seemed to be from the perspective of the communicator itself or an alien hiding it. Some wonder if others - aliens? - have observed Liz for some time. The shot came from two “strangers” who mention – “We have to get rid of her” – in the background (listen carefully while Liz shows the alien picture to the tourist couple) right before she is shot. Was it intentional?? Why would anyone "watch" Liz prior to the shooting?

The picture Liz shows the tourists in the Pilot

was supposedly taken by her Grandmother at the crash before the military arrived – a connection?? Many have speculated about Grandma Claudia’s involvement and her book about the Ancient Navajo Indians. Could Grandma Claudia have had contact with the aliens previously? Was Grandma Claudia killed intentionally? Did she know that Liz was “special,” thus, necessitating the early arrival and that “soulmate” discussion? Is Liz affected or a product of one of these earlier alien contacts? Could Liz have an alien relative? There seems to be many hints connecting ancient Indian cultures to the pod squad including Machu Picchu in Peru culture highlighted at the UFO Museum, the continuing references to “ancient languages” (e.g., Liz’s Blind Date Doug Shellow’s major at the UofNM and where the aliens’ manual was hidden in the library) and Grandma Claudia’s studies. Only coincidence – we think not! Could Liz’s review of her Grandmother’s possessions in Season 2 reveal those connections? Could the proposed black & white episode clear up GC’s connection to the aliens?

Another major topic of interest is Liz’s connection to Sheila Hubble! The resemblance between the two is amazing, and other parallels exist (e.g., pictures of both driving in an open-air car with the wind blowing through their dark hair). Plus, the visions that Liz receives from Max/Harding include Hubble’s wife at the death scene – meaning it had some significance to him. Did he kill her, or did the print come from a failed attempt to save her? Were the fireworks Hubble mentions seeing when kissing his wife the same as the stars Liz sees when kissing Max? Could Sheila Hubble be related to Liz somehow – an aunt, DNA donor? The fact that Sheila Hubble was three months pregnant with a girl seems to be relevant somehow! Could the DNA from the girl have been used for the pod squad – Max maybe – or for Liz? AND why is Tess' mother's name listed as Sheila on her school records? Everett Hubble, Ed Harding - both EH names with a wife named Sheila - INTERESTING! hummmm!

Liz’s ability to “see” into Max/Harding’s “soul” again points to the possibility that she may ultimately be able to “see the evil within.” What is it that she sees in these visions? Sheila Hubble, Lightening, a wormhole, the high desert, clouds rolling in? Some see sea foam, which is related in mythology to Venus. Is Liz Venus often referred to? The Venus constellation is often referred to in connection with Liz (e.g., Max in response to Liz saying her parents are on a trip to see Venus in the morning sky says “I thought she was standing in front of me.”). Could it be that the four squares (pod squad) + plus the fifth star being Liz “complete” the constellation? The numbers 14 and 104 seem to pop up often – why? Some have found a connection between these numbers to Venus in astronomy and mythology, or could it be 1 for Liz, and 4 for the pod squad? Or are they just some writer’s favorite apartment number or address?

And what significance does the cave map have to Liz's connection to the podsters? There are pictures on Thread #5, page 6 (I think?) that have raised some interesting analysis! What do they represent, and is Liz represented somehow - like one of the "dot" in the series of boxes, one of which is open with the dot outside?

Many have wondered if the "bad" aliens might also be from the pod squad's planet, just part of a civil war - therefore, having similar characteristics and powers to Harding's type of alien. Many of US think that the pod squad’s people had to have visited Earth before - maybe many times! Could the pods have been planted on Earth at a time separate from the 1947 crash, maybe later on?

Most of us also think that there are more than one alien “watching” the pod squad, and that the tic-tac popping alien (i.e., Hank-killer, one that found them asleep in the desert, and Dr. M impersonator) is a different alien watching out for them than Harding/Nasedo (assuming he is Nasedo). And what about the person who burns their picture at the end of Blind Date - another alien or one of the above two? Some wonder if Tess, Doug Shellow, Pierce and/or Deputy Owen might be a shapeshifter, or evil aliens? There is a wonderful observation of the different ways Harding and Tic Tac shapeshift and the different colored light involved! Many feel that Tic Tac is a good alien watching over the podsters, but maybe he is watching over Liz, too!

Harding’s connection to Liz has been pondered often! Why was he so eager to kiss her? Why did he save her from the house of mirrors? Could he have been Sheila Hubble’s lover or had some other strong connection to her, with a later connection to Liz? Could he have known Grandma Claudia? Could GC been connected to Sheila Hubble somehow? Harding has done nothing – we know of – to harm Liz, but MANY are suspicious of his intentions. Is his sole reason for being on Earth to protect the pod squad – and what did he do for all those years?? I have a strong theory concerning how “duty” has overtaken Harding’s emotions – but you will have to go to the beginning of the 3rd thread to read it. Others feel he is a bad alien using Tess to infiltrate the pod squad. Why didn’t he give them more information about themselves? Will the real Ed Harding stand up?

Some have noted the reoccurrence of handholding as symbolizing the connection between Max and Liz and the other podsters. Handholding has great significance in the books as a form of joining energy, and we believe it does in the show too. The V constellation also looks like the joining of two hands. Also, in The Balance much is made of Max reaching out his hand to pull Michael from the pit, and M/I/M walking away holding hands.

Finally – dates seem to be of interest to those on this thread. So, following is a rundown of dates as I’ve been able to gather them. I include them up-front for easy reference, but I would love to add dates of relevance you come across:
1911 - James Atherton born in TN
1927 - Buffalo Visitation
6/14/1947 - Crash
6/24/1947 - 9 Disk-like objects spotted flying near Mt. Rainier in WA
7/4/1947 – Milton claims the crash occurred
7/7/1947 - Farmer Brazel (from Foster Ranch) finally reports debris from Roswell crash to sheriff, who calls Roswell Army Air Field
11/14/1947 - Everet Hubble born
1950? - Observation of alien held in captivity by FBI ends (Escaped? Died?)
1952 - Atherton involved in Project Blue Book (Air Force project on aliens)
1959 - Atherton dies (murdered?)
1959 - Milton (Max's Boss) has picture with "alien" shadow next to him outside the Ice Cream Parlor
1962 - Agent Lewis - first head of Special Unit killed in CO
1967 - Agent Delbianco killed in TN
1970 - Sheila Hubble dies (murdered?)
1972 – Silo Murder occurs involving Hubble and Sheriff Valenti Senior
3/15/1983 – Max’s birthday (Blood Bothers)
1989 - Pod Squad come out of the cave (look like 6-year-olds)
1992 - Max and Isabel "find" Michael again
1992? - Liz and Max "meet" in the 3rd grade for the first time (but may have been in the same school before this, just didn't meet.)
1999 - Agent Daniel Summers killed
9/17/1999 - Max saves Liz - and Roswell is Born!!

I know I haven’t covered everything, especially new thought from Threads #4 & #5, but that would be impossible and I’d never do anyone justice! There is also lots of speculation about Pierce and other characters revolving around Liz, and why they are important to the discussion, I'm trying to stick to the core issue here - Liz's importance and connection.

I hope others will help fill in some of the gaps, but this is my attempt to continue the wonderful input, and make this thread more accessible. Lots to think about!! So – theorize away!!! All theories on "Liz’s Importance to the Alien Mythology" are welcome. OH, BTW (I always have to add this – if anyone from THE WB reads this – WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LIZ/MAX CONNECTION IS CRITICAL TO THE SHOW, that Liz should never be bumped from the top two slots in the credits, and that together Max and Liz make a incredible force to reckon with!!

Zero

08-08-2000 11:26 PM

rocklowery

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 239

Get that new VCR yet Grace Kel and Rocklowery? :LOL:

As a matter of fact, it's not my VCR that's getting worn out, but my TV! Oh, and my tapes. We have 2 VCR's and I must admit that the one that does the frame by frame shots is on its last legs

Zero, you are amazing! Pretty soon we'll need one whole page just for the summary!

Speaking of frame by frame...
A newbie posted a very interesting observation on the last page of thread #5 involving a red alien face superimposed on Liz's face in the flashes from BD (Behrall, I think?) I apologize if I got your name wrong. Well, I used my frame by frame and you're right, it's there, raised a few goosebumps I might add. It is the frame where you have Liz crying(the last frame) the first frame of their kiss coming in and the map in the background. It almost looks like the face is smiling!

Anyway, more later, gotta get some sleep!

08-08-2000 11:32 PM

shapeshifter

Addicted Fan

Registered: May 2000
Posts: 679

Hope I'm posting on the right one. The board has been double posting new threads lately.

Just thought I'd kick this off with an observation that might not have been thoroughly examined yet: Based on your chronology, Zero, pregnant Sheila Hubble "died" 13 years before the "6 year-old" podsters emerged.

I'm not a fan of the Sheila/Liz connection, but thought I'd throw it out there anyway. Someone else observed that Tess's mother was listed as "Sheila" on her HS transcripts, and pointed out the similarity between
E. Hubble (widower of Sheila)
and
E. Harding (widower of Sheila)

Okay, here's a new theory (just what we need??): Sheila, who resembles Liz in phenotype, was the human donor for the real Tess, but she was killed by a an anti-Destiny shapeshifter. Harding manufactured Replacement Tess (whom we love to hate), but Max was drawn to Liz because of phenotypical lust engineering. Not very romantic, but maybe someone can tweak it.

08-09-2000 03:43 AM

Palomino

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 424

Zero : One correction. In WR, Harding said the podsters were "several thousand years" ahead of humans, not a couple thousand (2000 years). The difference may become important if they incorrporate time travel into the story.

Shapeshifter : I'm not a fan of the Liz/Sheila theories either, so your idea that she looks more like Max's bride than Tess is welcome. Tess does not look like one of the podsters (tall, brown eyes, striaght hair). Whether this is due to the alien DNA mixed in and it signifies she was from different aliens (the opposition; arranged marriage to keep the peace idea), or due to the human DNA in the mix (the original Tess died; this one is a remake w/different DNA, so hatched late) is unknown.

I like to think Max hatched early and had not yet been programmed for his mate, so he chose his own. In the Balance, Max told Liz that when they hatched, the three of them did not know how to speak, but were able to communicate and could mentally "feel" each other's presence. If they had been born with weak telepathic abilities due to the alien DNA (maybe alien children need telepathic abilities, and bond to mates young), then maybe Max was instinctively searching mentally for a suitable mate and "felt" Liz's mind, which met with his approval, and he bonded to his soulmate. Perhaps the podsters' abilities at telepathy have been dormant most of this time because they don't need it in human society, or it dropped off, like the instinct to suckle. Max may be unable, as well as unwilling, to accept another mate as long as Liz is alive. Anyhow, just wishful romantic thinking.

[Edited by Palomino on 08-09-2000 at 03:46 AM]

08-09-2000 06:09 AM

Send private message to ElizabethinTexas

ElizabethinTexas

Fan

Registered: Jul 2000
Posts: 26

Hi, everybody, this is my first post on this thread, though I have read all the past five. Good Lord, y'all are amazing with the things you catch.

I did see the red face you were referring to at the end of BD--by the way (OT), what episode is that where she is crying, I cannot place it for the life of me.

I like the idea posted on one of the previous five that the possible explanation for the intense connection between Max and Liz. The person (sorry I cannot remember your name, I've slept since then...

) said that most likely, aliens from their planet have scouted Earth prior to sending their future to it, especially knowing that the bad aliens were there too. Possibly, Max's prior alien form came to Earth, took human form, met with Grandma Claudia, fell in love with her, and then left due to their differences, etc. When he returned home, though, he was killed along with his bride, his sister, and her betrothed, his 2nd in Command. This would explain the immediate connection on Max's part at the age of nine, then he awakens it in her during the reverse connection seven years later.

Also, why does Max say, "I've wanted to tell you a thousand times..." (Pilot) to a person he was only lab partners with, never actually held a conversation with outside of class? That just doesn't fit with the whole secret-keeping agreement he made with M/I.

In some fanfic I have read, the question of whether or not the Mom'ogram is current. What is the point of fighting, risking their lives, if they are not even sure if their home is still in existence. If they were in the crash of '47, and the orb was buried about that time, then how old is that message.

I just thought of this: the visions Liz has in SH of the orb being frantically buried while army guys are running around, how do we really know that it was following the '47 crash? Maybe Nacedo (Tic-Tac/Edcedo) came back in the 50s after he killed Atherton, trying to rid himself of all "evidence" of alien existence.

I hope this all makes sense...it's still kind of early in the morning for me to truly think clearly.

08-09-2000 09:08 AM

Zero

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Feb 2000
Posts: 253

Elizabeth in TX - the scene of Liz crying is from the end of "Leaving Normal" - one of my favorite episodes, and I believe significant to the Liz/podsters connection. I have yet to rewatch that part of Blind Date to "see" the red alien overlay

, but hope to soon! I've also numerous time discussed the fact that I believe that the podster's people have had to come to Earth numerous time before, and once posted a scenario similar to the one you did. Of course, it is all speculation, but fun ...

Palomino - thanks for the correction on the "timing" - I was doing it all from memory, and thought he had said a "couple," and I agree, it could be significant if time travel is involved. Though I'm not a big fan of that idea for this show.

Got to work! Have a great day!

Zero

08-09-2000 02:25 PM

huggybehr

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Apr 2000
Posts: 165

quote:

Originally posted by Palomino

I like to think Max hatched early and had not yet been programmed for his mate, so he chose his own. In the Balance, Max told Liz that when they hatched, the three of them did not know how to speak, but were able to communicate and could mentally "feel" each other's presence. If they had been born with weak telepathic abilities due to the alien DNA (maybe alien children need telepathic abilities, and bond to mates young), then maybe Max was instinctively searching mentally for a suitable mate and "felt" Liz's mind, which met with his approval, and he bonded to his soulmate. Perhaps the podsters' abilities at telepathy have been dormant most of this time because they don't need it in human society, or it dropped off, like the instinct to suckle. Max may be unable, as well as unwilling, to accept another mate as long as Liz is alive. Anyhow, just wishful romantic thinking.

[Edited by Palomino on 08-09-2000 at 03:46 AM]

Hey Palomino, I like that idea!

Zero, thanks once again for the great start to thread number 6.

Nothing new to add today, just checking in, but I'm sure I'll be back with some more thoughts after Sexual Healing re-airs!

08-09-2000 03:26 PM

Starstruck

Dedicated Fan

Registered: May 2000
Posts: 67

Wow Zero, great job again with the summary!!

I was putting away the aniversary card my husband gave me(7 years!) when I noticed a little quote on the front I hadn't read before. It says- "Love is eternal. The aspect may change, but not the essence."- Vincent VanGough. Just thought it sort of pertained to discutions we've had on here. If you apply this quote I feel that Tess and Max's marriage must have been arranged since he doesn't seem to have any strong feelings for her, just lusty images that I'm sure Tess made him experience. As far as Max and Liz go, this could go along with the idea that their souls had known and loved each other before.(though I like the idea of Max just simply falling in love with a human girl.)

Not much more to add today. I think my brain is getting burned out looking for new clues. Tonight I'm going to look for that red alien face. I'm getting real itchy for the new season to start.

Just wondered, did any of you who frequent this thread go to the party in LA?

08-09-2000 03:58 PM

Evid

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 125

Zero:
Thank you, thank you and thanks again for that amazing summary, now go relax those fingers.

Ok, I have been sorting through this idea in my mind for sometime now, after watching SH time and time again (with all that heavy lip locking between M/L it was hard to catch this without losing my train of thought), this is how I saw the visions. I now think all of the visions Liz was having was from Max and not the orb or any other Alien. Remember the locker room conversation, Max tells Liz that "not only did I see what you saw but I felt what you felt". Max can see Liz as a little girl, (playing dress up) signifying the need to grow up and become a women. This is indeed what is on Liz's mind, (the voiceover in the shower) in short, she has a fear of losing her virginity. :O
So how about Max what is on his mind? This begins at the end of BD. Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz and more Liz and then he remembers "Oh that's right my mission to discover who I am and what planet I came from, because I can't have Liz if I don't do this first." The map the V formatin (I don't know about the Alien? Maybe it's Miss Tess, making out with Max the only way she can.). Jump to SH Liz can see Max flying through space, crashing and then hiding the orb as he looks up at the tower and makes sure he will remember, when the time comes, where he had buried it. How you ask did he hide it without being seen by the soldiers, how could he be so close to them and not get caught?? The answer as I see it is Max could not be seen, he was invisible. "Oh come on you say," now think back to SH and Kyle serching for Max after the race down the street, where did Max disappear to? That's just it he did dissappear. Yet another power for Max.
Now how is Max running around when he should be in the pod? I have a few ideas but not enough clues to back them up. Maybe some of you can come up with something more solid. Now, I have not seen this theory posted before, so I'm sorry if it has and will give you fool credit for it, if anyone " doesn't like it ".

So long, Evid (oh boy, sorry it is so long)

08-09-2000 07:00 PM

shapeshifter

Addicted Fan

Registered: May 2000
Posts: 679

Last 3 posts are great.
Evid: how about if the Max who buried the orb was Max in his former form?

I like the hatching-before-Tess-bonding concept.

08-09-2000 07:42 PM

Palomino

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 424

Evid : Invisible? And none of the podsters know they have this ability unless they are drunk?

(Anybody remember invisible Bert on "Soap"? I can just see a drunken Max "pulling a Bert"

) Good idea though.

In the vision, we don't know how much time has passed between running with the orb, and burrying the orb. The alien could have lost the soldier, but after taking the time to hide the orb, lost precious time, and was eventually caught.

Another theory, is that there was at least one alien not caught. In WR, Pierce said, "Four were captured, two dead, two alive. One escaped. Nasedo, isn't that what you call him?" He didn't say how many were not captured. Kind of odd to say "four captured". Why not say "there were four aliens in the crash"?

One or more could have gotten away after the crash. In reality, the military did not even show up on the day of the crash, so someone could have gotten away, and maybe taken embryonic podsters to safety nearby. Maybe another trip back to the crash to recover some more equipment brought them face to face with the military and the chase began.

08-09-2000 07:43 PM

darth maul 214

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 181

I was just rereading a transcript to WR. The conversation between Harding and Michael about humans and the Pod Squads powers stuck a chord with me.
Nasedo/Harding: Humans are weak - which doesn't bother me - and wasteful. Their brains are incredible machines they haven't even begun to use. When you were engineered, you were given the capacity to do everything the human brain is capable of.

Michael: You mean besides our powers.

Nasedo/Harding: Those are your powers, Michael. Everything you can do is human. You were just programmed to be several thousand years ahead of mankind, that's all.

Since the Pod Squad's powers are human, couldn't Maria, Alex, Valenti, and Kyle be taught to tap into their hidden abilities. The powers are hidden in the human brain. Liz can tap into some powers, whether this is because of her being a Pod Squad member or not. I toyed with the idea about the powers in a few fanfics I wrote or am currently writing.

[Edited by darth maul 214 on 08-09-2000 at 07:52 PM]

08-09-2000 08:00 PM

Palomino

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 424

Darth Maul 214 : There is an idea floating around about that. Humans have only so long after birth to "hardwire" their brains for certain functions (sight, hearing, language, etc). The podsters were "programmed" to be able to use their mostly-human brains for their powers. It stands to reason they were hardwired while in the pods for this (as well as probably their personalities, since a child's basic personality is set by the age of six, with modifications which can be caused later.) When Liz was healed by Max, and he made subsequent connections, he could have been unintentionally altering her "hardwiring". So far we have seen she is now able to pick up "flashes" from aliens. Maybe her mind has learned this from Max, or he has changed her to be able to do this. If this is true, yes, maybe some powers are possible - for any of them. Too bad Harding isn't more free with information.

08-09-2000 08:35 PM

HyperKitN

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 151

This is kinda hokey
Oh by the way=wonderful job as always ZERO

I don't know if anyone ever saw that Return to witch mountain. The one that plays on Disney all the time sometime in the early 90's. Anyway in that movie they talk about how the aliens had come to Earth at first to have a new home and through time they forgot about all there powers. The same could apply for liz, maria, alex, etc. not that they all came from another planet, but that they do have the same abilities as the podster, but need a little bust in activating them. Good observation

About Max, invisible, well I think an ability they have is agility and fast movement. Remember in WR when he ran up to Pierce and in HW when he climbed up Liz's latter.

yeah lucky #6

08-09-2000 10:29 PM

Zero

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Feb 2000
Posts: 253

Rewatched the end of the "kiss" in Blind Date, and unfortunately, I did not see an alien, just the read glow of Liz kissing Max coming into focus slowly from the picture of Liz crying. No alien popped out.

I'm too tired to add much, but wanted to BUMP this and add my observation above.

Plus, I've always thought that Liz's intelligence is one of the keys to her potential to have powers - with the reverse connection from Max being the other key. I wonder if Grandma Claudia was super intelligent and somehow connected to past aliens due to this. Also, if all the podsters' powers are "human" powers, than other "advanced" humans should be capable of developing powers of some kind - I guess we would look at people with such "powers" as miracle workers!?! Also, though the bulk of our pathways in the brain are established at a young age, there is amazing research going on that shows that the brain is continually regenerating and developing pathways even in older people - thus, the old saying "Use it, or lose it" has never been truer! I like the idea that Max's connection with Liz - direct or reverse - caused such super stimulation to her brain that unleashed the "potential" for powers, but as with anything, that potential will only be realized if she learns how to tap into it and "use it." I guess Max could tutor her

!

Zero

[Edited by Zero on 08-09-2000 at 10:36 PM]

08-09-2000 11:00 PM

shapeshifter

Addicted Fan

Registered: May 2000
Posts: 679

Zero, re powers as miracles: I couldn't help silently shouting at Max&Mom in Toy House: So, he's a spiritual healer, big deal! Not that I confused the alien thing with a spiritual healer thing, just that I thought joining a Charismatic Church would have been a good cover story.

An re Liz's powers: The piece in that puzzle that stands out to me is the glowing skin thing (thingk

?). Seeing visions could just be an alien-dependent phenomenom--not meaning codependency--meaning it only happens when an alien is projecting images or reading them. But the glowing skin thing seems to indicate an enduring effect--a change--an "altered Liz" as we say it in Roswellian.

08-10-2000 04:48 AM

meg25

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Jul 2000
Posts: 91

Hello Everyone!i've really hooked on these thread although I don't post that much I make sure I read the thread and visit it.

Some of you have already noticed the connection of sheila/tess and i reall have to agree w/(sorry forget the name)them that sheila hubble is more connected w/tess than liz.The season is already finished here in the Phils and I somehow can't find anybody who wants to give the copy of the first season coz I wasn't able to tape it.I'm hoping some of you is like willing to give me one.E-mail me pls.

Btw,Zero...the dates are so cool now I keep digging my memory for the dates that i still remember.
Gotta go.Hope to read more facts about Liz and the rest of the pods.

08-10-2000 10:06 AM

GraceKel

Crazed Fan

Registered: Dec 1999
Posts: 1087

Zero what would we do without you, you do such a great job of summarizing all the brainstorming ideas that have been expressed on all these threads. KUDOS TO YOU!

As for my vcr do you think I can replace it (with the same model) without my hubby realizing it, because if he hears the squeaky slo-mo he is going to have me committed for sure.

One thing I think we can all agree on is that Liz has some important role to play when it comes to our pod squad-how we reach those conclusions may differ but variety is the spice of life right!

Welcome to all the NEWBIES to this thread, all are welcome indeed.

I myself and holding out on the fact that I do not believe TESS is an original podster. I think she is a substitute for the real bride-who may have been killed and Liz could have gotten her soul or something or.....well I am not sure how this works out but I just have strong feelings that she is not an original, there may be 5 or there may be 4 and we have yet to meet the other 2 or 1.

08-10-2000 11:28 AM

CúChulainn

Fan

Registered: Aug 2000
Posts: 14

I think people are grasping at straws to suggest that Liz has any alien origins. I do not think that the connection between Max and Liz necessitates the concept of souls reincarnated (or people cloned). I think that the feelings that Max and Liz have developed for one another have their origin in their present lives.

I believe that the visions that Liz experiences when Max and Liz kiss are a projection from Max. Max always has the desire to be in control. This is probably why he was such a great leader on his home planet. On earth, he knows that he must hide his alien powers. But this control keeps him from experiencing visions of his past lives.

But when Max is with Liz, he lets his guard down. Because he has such intense feelings for her, he loses control. His mind is freed, if only momentarily, from the constraints imposed by a lifetime of having to hide who he is. Subconsciously, he wants Liz to know everything about him, because he feels she is the only one who will understand. So, in this way Liz becomes a conduit for his Max’s true feelings.

But after the kiss is over, Max remembers nothing, just as he remembers nothing of what happened when he was drunk. This is because he regains his control over himself. He becomes introverted and recedes to the shadows were he can remain alone and safe.

I believe that Liz is the key to Max’s true happiness.

08-10-2000 01:49 PM

Zero

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Registered: Feb 2000
Posts: 253

Welcome Meg and CuChulain!

CuChulain - I also don't think that Liz has alien origins, but wonder if there may be a connection with the aliens by her Grandmother. While I also think the visions Liz is seeing - in most cases - are coming from Max, I'm not convinced that some of her visions aren't coming from another source at times (Sexual Healing), plus there is always the visions she gets from Harding/Max. And the ones she gets just from the touch of Max's hands in the chemistry class. I think there is more to it than just Max letting his guard down, while I do think that is part of it at first. I think Liz has changed and has developed, though not refined, a sort of six-sense that may come in handy for "seeing the evil within." Of course, all this is speculation, but I appreciate all the work posters on this Thread have done identifying "clues" that support their theories even if I don't always agree with them!

Zero

08-10-2000 02:05 PM

Send private message to RoswellFanatic01

RoswellFanatic01

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Registered: Aug 2000
Posts: 9

I just wanted to drop by and say that I love this thread. It's extremely interesting to read, even if I think some of you have way to much time on your hands.

Keep up the good work.

RoswellFanatic01

08-10-2000 03:48 PM

HyperKitN

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 151

Hey guys, you could be tapping into something about Liz being some kind of conduit(sp).Though I don't know whether or not Liz is human or alien, though sometimes I may contradict myself w/theories.I know as we all do that she is important.

You guys might not like this,but maybe the aliens pick a human ahead of time before they come to earth to be a sort of metal detector or in this case an evil

detector.Or a receptor for messages from home.If GC was abducted something could have been put into her DNA that would come up in the generation (male or female) that their leaders were to "hatch" from their pods.Thus leading Max to find Liz, but they didn't antisipate(sp) that Max would fall in love with her.Since apparently they are not supposed to feel emotions.

Just something new that came to mind.

08-10-2000 04:00 PM

Evid

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Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 125

CúChulainn:

I agree with you that Max is connecting with Liz because he is letting his guard down and allowing Liz to see what is deep inside him.

But once he has connected, it's Liz that is surfing his mind for answers. She is given control.
As Zero stated, why would she see visions from just a touch of his hand?
I don't think Max had his guard down at this point but he was forming a connection. She is highly stimulated (to put it mildly) and Max did tell Liz (Missing) that they had visions when things got intense.
Liz also had a vision with Harding, maybe because now her power is stronger and mush more sensitive. Another example is on Destiny when she has a vision of Max in WR, Max wouldn't want Liz to see this and he didn't look like his guard was down.
I believe GC along with Max are the reasons
Liz now has the power to see visions. Humen or not I think GC did pass on a gene that Max has awakened.

Evid

08-10-2000 04:06 PM

nermal

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Jan 2000
Posts: 159

Maybe while Nasedo was hiding the pods, the other alien that survived the crash met GC, and altered her so that latent thingie that connects Liz to Max will awaken in future generations in the presence of the leader, Max.

Too bad GC didn't keep a journal like Liz.

08-10-2000 04:14 PM

Send private message to bkwrm79-Stargazer

bkwrm79-Stargazer

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Registered: Jul 2000
Posts: 117

I think Liz is fully human. The beauty and romance is that Max must reject his destiny, help his planet on his own terms, by embracing his human side.

HyperKitn is right- the aliens did not anticipate how Max's human side, human DNA, would alter his outlook. Still less did they anticipate his human upbringing, which wouldn't have happened if not for the crash.

Think how different Worf is than most Klingons- and he has at least met them and tried to be like them.

08-10-2000 05:02 PM

GraceKel

Crazed Fan

Registered: Dec 1999
Posts: 1087

I think most people on this thread think Liz is fully human but whether she is special in some manner shape or form is the question.

Nermal maybe GC did keep a journal that will pop up in this coming Season2 who knows.

Hyperkitn your last theory, I kind of like that one about them not expecting Max to fall for this special person that they had picked. It works for me.

I was also thinking about the numbers we have been saying have been shown 104 1 and 4 14 and that Max says to Liz in TLV "You're the ONE, the only ONE, I could never be with anyone else. Isn't it funny that they chose him to say you're the ONE!

I just think that GC coming and having that conversation about finding her soulmate indicates that there is more there than just meets the eye, oh I just happen to fall for a human girl.

I think you are actually taking so much away from the story to have it be that simple, losing many storylines and plot. But that is just mho.

One other thing if it is that simple then why does Liz get visions and glowing hickies and rashes and fevers and Maria does not or Alex?

08-10-2000 05:05 PM

CúChulainn

Fan

Registered: Aug 2000
Posts: 14

In regards to the theory that Liz may have a genotype inherited from her grandmother’s alleged alien flings, whose phenotype was not actualized until her meeting with Max. This seems too far-fetched, complicated and unbelievable.
I agree with bkwrm79-Stargazer, I think Liz is fully human.

However, I do think it’s possible that the initial visions may have sparked some kind of “fast evolution” in Liz’s ability to potentiate greater use of her human “powers” (as evidenced by Zero’s citations of her visions sans Max).

08-10-2000 05:32 PM

rocklowery

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Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 239

quote:

Originally posted by CúChulainn
In regards to the theory that Liz may have a genotype inherited from her grandmother’s alleged alien flings, whose phenotype was not actualized until her meeting with Max. This seems too far-fetched, complicated and unbelievable.
I agree with bkwrm79-Stargazer, I think Liz is fully human.

However, I do think it’s possible that the initial visions may have sparked some kind of “fast evolution” in Liz’s ability to potentiate greater use of her human “powers” (as evidenced by Zero’s citations of her visions sans Max).

I think you're over-thinking the scientific aspect of this. Remember, this IS hollywood science we're talking about, the same people who use a sandstone outcropping with a cave when any geologist worth their salt knows that the rock formations around Roswell are Calcareous in nature and that it should be limestone not sandstone. Roswell IS near Carlsbad Caverns after all. Anyway, I said that to make a point, hollywood doesn't go with hard science when they come up with their storylines, they go with what sounds good and what the AVERAGE viewer would find believable. To tell you the truth, I can't watch the movie Volcano. I went on for Weeks about how unbelievable their concept of a volcanic eruption from the La Brea Tar Pits was, but there were a lot of people who thought it was "cool."

I think that the writers will go with what they can get away with, after all they do have the advantage of us not knowing how alien DNA would affect human DNA when the two interact.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. As for GC and a journal, maybe they'll use its discovery by Liz to lead off the black and white eppy (I'm not going to say what that one's about for those who want to stay spoiler free) and yes, that is PURE speculation on my part!

08-10-2000 06:34 PM

Miss Roswell

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Registered: Feb 2000
Posts: 459

Gosh, just when I am convinced that Liz could be an alien, someone throws in a curve ball and I am back to square one again.

CúChulainn...what you wrote above regarding Max and how he feels about Liz and all, you wrote it so eloquently. Gosh, I never thought of it that way.

Keep all the guessing going guys, I love to to find out in upcoming eps who eventually was on the right track.

08-10-2000 06:46 PM

CúChulainn

Fan

Registered: Aug 2000
Posts: 14

rocklowery - well, I hope they don't go the way of Volcano (a horrible movie).
But, your right about being too scientific. One of the things I didn't like about "The Phantom Menace" was the invention of "midichlorians", which totally demystified the whole concept of the force.

08-10-2000 07:31 PM

rocklowery

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 239

quote:

Originally posted by CúChulainn
rocklowery - well, I hope they don't go the way of Volcano (a horrible movie).
But, your right about being too scientific. One of the things I didn't like about "The Phantom Menace" was the invention of "midichlorians", which totally demystified the whole concept of the force.

I agree whole-heartedly about the midichlorian fiasco, sometimes it's best to leave a little mystery in a concept to keep the imagination active. As to Volcano, I have confidence in the writers and producers. They've shown quite a bit of integrity when it comes to creating a coherent and well-thought out story arc. Although the last 6 eppys were rushed, they were solidly connected and I think they'll continue this tradition in the second season, only with more sci fi. I also have to admit to peeking at the spoilers (alright, I have NO willpower)!

BTW I LOVE your name, are you by chance IRISH?

08-10-2000 07:38 PM

Evid

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 125

quote:

Originally posted by CúChulainn
In regards to the theory that Liz may have a genotype inherited from her grandmother’s alleged alien flings, whose phenotype was not actualized until her meeting with Max. This seems too far-fetched, complicated and unbelievable.
I agree with bkwrm79-Stargazer, I think Liz is fully human.

Why would it be so unbelievable, complicated or far-fetched, and who ever said GC had a alien fling? Is it that "unbelievable" for
Roswell, do we believe a UFO crashed there? Why is it not so "complicated" to believe she could pass on any other gene, I herd humans are known to do that. As for it not being actualized until Max, what other Alien contact did Liz have before Max in order to accelerate this gene, and for that matter other humens could have it lay dormant inside them until an alien connects.
As for "far-fetched" I will quote GraceKel,"why does Liz get visions and glowing hickies and rashes and fevers and Maria does not or Alex?" Do they have the gene? I want Liz to be humen and in my mind this is the only way I can believe she is.
Liz is different for what other reason? If not this? Please I would love to hear your theory.
This is fun, it's got my blood pumping.

08-10-2000 07:57 PM

GraceKel

Crazed Fan

Registered: Dec 1999
Posts: 1087

Rocklowery and Evid I am with you guys, there are just too many clues everyone is just dismissing. How are "OKAY WE GOTTA GET RID OF HER!" Why would they be trying to get rid of some little human girl who Max has just been crushing on forever? There are just so MANY clues I could list them but they are ENDLESS. I will admit when I first started watching it I thought it was just that simple but then when I discovered these clues it made the story all the more WONDEROUS to me. Then it felt like I really melted into a bowl of mush---too dreamy.

And the thing that really makes this idea so special is that Max and Liz do not consciously realize any of this(maybe subconsciously) and they think they are just two different species who fell for each other who do not BELONG together. Nothing could be further from the truth.

08-10-2000 10:49 PM

rocklowery

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 239

quote:

Originally posted by GraceKel
Rocklowery and Evid I am with you guys, there are just too many clues everyone is just dismissing. How are "OKAY WE GOTTA GET RID OF HER!" Why would they be trying to get rid of some little human girl who Max has just been crushing on forever? There are just so MANY clues I could list them but they are ENDLESS. I will admit when I first started watching it I thought it was just that simple but then when I discovered these clues it made the story all the more WONDEROUS to me. Then it felt like I really melted into a bowl of mush---too dreamy.

And the thing that really makes this idea so special is that Max and Liz do not consciously realize any of this(maybe subconsciously) and they think they are just two different species who fell for each other who do not BELONG together. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I agree with you in the clue department so I thought I'd list a few that I feel are relevant. So here goes...

Re: Is Liz altered human or part alien. This question could swing both ways, in any event, she isn't merely an average human. The writers have left an abundance of clues that Liz is more than just your average human, from all the references to her being perfect, and her relationship to Grandma Claudia who is also spoken of as being "incredible," to Harding trying almost too hard to get rid of her. What made her such a threat that she needs to be eliminated? Somebody knows something about her heritage that they're not telling us about! (Yet!) Whether her genetic code contains some dormant Alien DNA that Max activated or the DNA inherited from her grandma was altered by an alien encounter has yet to be revealed. Either of these possibilities would make for good storyarc material.

Re: Lix getting shot, at the time this occurred, Harding didn't know who or where the missing podsters were. I got the impression from Maria's comments about Max Evans staring at Liz "again" that he was a frequent visitor to the Crashdown. If time travel were tied into this, the person(s) who hired the guys to kill Liz would've known who Max was and would've told the assassins to wait until he left before shooting her to guarentee that she died, or at least been told by whoever hired them to make sure that tall dark and Alien wasn't present at the time. It was just sheer chance that Max was there that day. The only thing Harding knows is the approximate age of the other podsters, which is about the same age as Liz. Since Liz is Grandma Claudia's descendant through a male child (who carries her X chromosome) it is likely that she inherited the altered or alien DNA from her grandma.

The Native American tie-in: it wouldn't surprise me if they bring up the indian petroglyphs as a tie in to the alien mythology. They've already hinted at a connection, both with Grandma Claudia's book and the reservation scenes and mythology references. There are clear references in real-life petroglyphs to a supernova that occurred around 1054 A.D. and drawings to fantastical human-like beings that they could incorporate into the storyline. Some of these occur in the Three Rivers area which is near Roswell. (Yes, I did some research on this).

The conversations that Riverdog has had with Liz do not specifically indicate that she is purely human, only that she is "not one of them" and must choose her own path with regard to them and make sure they can be trusted. He seems overly protective of her, but doesn't show the same protective nature toward Maria and Alex. If she has alien DNA, could it belong to the other race of aliens that we know are here? That would match all the "different" and "not one of them" references we keep hearing.

Well, those are just a partial list of clues that I feel are relevant to Liz's role in this. I'm looking forward to seeing how close I come to what the show's creators have in mind for our heroine!

What do you think Gracekel, Evid?

08-10-2000 11:38 PM

Evid

Dedicated Fan

Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 125

rocklowery:
All I have to say is you are a "GENIUS."

08-10-2000 11:49 PM

shapeshifter

Addicted Fan

Registered: May 2000
Posts: 679

quote:

Originally posted by Zero
...While I also think the visions Liz is seeing - in most cases - are coming from Max, I'm not convinced that some of her visions aren't coming from another source at times (Sexual Healing), plus there is always the visions she gets from Harding/Max. And the ones she gets just from the touch of Max's hands in the chemistry class...

In the following bit of SH transcript, note that Max & Liz are flirting during the hand-touch vision--so Max would be open:
quote:

(As Mr. Seligman, the astro teacher, talks about science, Max and Liz flirt with each other. Liz mouths a "hello" to Max, who responds with a "hi". Max writes something on a slip of paper and passes it to Liz. Liz drops her pencil, and Max kneels down to pick it up. He touches Liz's hand and Liz starts to get a flood of images of something travelling through space. Liz starts to moan with all the feelings she's experiencing, which disrupts the class)

So maybe shapeshifters (i.e. Evil Max) are always open, and hiding feelings is only a default for humans.

08-11-2000 09:28 AM

rocklowery

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Registered: Jun 2000
Posts: 239

Ack! Page 2?!!!!! This is no place for such a deep thinking thread!! So, back to page one we go!!!

08-11-2000 09:48 AM

CúChulainn

Fan

Registered: Aug 2000
Posts: 14

Rocklowery – Regarding my name – I’m only a quarter Irish, but I really like Irish Mythology.

Evid – Ok, ok, I guess it’s not that far fetched for Roswell. But in regards to the Liz’ glowing hickies and stuff  I don’t know about you, but I don’t think Michael and Maria, and Alex and Isabelle have the same intensity in their relationship that Max and Liz have. So maybe Maria and Alex will start glowing in the future.

GraceKel – As for the "OKAY WE GOTTA GET RID OF HER!" line  I was totally unaware of this. I haven’t seen the 1st ep in almost a year. (I wish I had it on tape). I was under the impression that Liz getting shot was totally an accident and Max wasn’t brought under suspicion until he was seen healing her. But, this line is definitely very strong evidence that I have no explanation for.

08-11-2000 11:24 AM

ESinclair

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Registered: Aug 2000
Posts: 117

As a newbie, I have to say that the imagination shown on this thread is astounding (I feel an addiction starting here). If I were a writer for this show, I'd be a fool not to read these posts for ideas.

Okay, I don't know if this has already been brought up (I can't seem to get to the first three threads--they must have been removed from FanForum) so I apologize if I'm being redundant. It has always bothered me, though, that in "Leaving Normal," when Max tries to help Liz say goodbye to GC, he tries and then says "I'm sorry," as if he couldn't make the connection. It's after this apparent failure that GC appears for Liz. This suggests that Max's abilities had :nothing: to do with GC's parting message to Liz and that the message came from a direct connection between the two. This never made sense to me until I saw all the speculation on this thread about GC and her possible involvement with the aliens of yore.

Also, is it possible that I could send a blank tape to one of you with two VCRs and get the Pilot? I missed the (last?) chance to tape it when it re-aired and I want to check out this "We have to get rid of her" thing.

Thinking of that, could it be that Liz was shot to draw Max out into the open? That whoever set it up knew that Max couldn't just let someone die and would use his powers to save an innocent bystander? Just another thought that may or may not have been already covered.

Keep it going guys, this is almost as good as new episodes!

08-11-2000 12:15 PM

huggybehr

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Registered: Apr 2000
Posts: 165

quote:

Originally posted by ESinclair

Thinking of that, could it be that Liz was shot to draw Max out into the open? That whoever set it up knew that Max couldn't just let someone die and would use his powers to save an innocent bystander? Just another thought that may or may not have been already covered.

Keep it going guys, this is almost as good as new episodes!

Welcome to the thread ESinclair and Cuchulainn.

This is a good point, I used to wonder if Max would have helped anyone other than Liz? He told Liz that he acted because it was her, and that's probably the truth, because there was just too much at stake for him to risk everything for anyone less than his soulmate. Therefore, if Liz was shot to draw Max out, she had to have been specially chosen by someone who knew how important she is to him. Max never hesitates to risk his life for Liz e.g. when she gets shot in The Pilot, in Tess,Lies and Videotape when she's in Harding's house and they suspect he might be FBI and in Max to the Max, when he's prepared to go to Valenti when she is kidnapped.

Liz is definately special, as others have pointed out before, at the time Max saves her life, they have not had much direct interaction, yet he has thought about telling her a thousand times and is so sure that she is different and can be trusted with his secret. She must be giving off some special vibe for Max to pick all that up from her!